Poll – Which Cadre of Narcissist Have You Engaged With?
As you know, there are four cadres of narcissist – Somatic, Cerebral, Victim and Elite. Which of those have you engaged with in the context of a romantic, familial, social, work or any other kind of dynamic? You may have engaged with more than one ; if so, choose the cadre which applies to the cadre which you engaged with the most.
Remember – this is not the school (those are Lesser, Mid-Range and Greater). If you need to know more about the relevant cadres you can learn more in the book Sitting Target
Do you have any thoughts on which cadre is likely to be the one that has been engaged with the most? If so, let me know and why do you think that might be, I would welcome your observations.
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SMH really 😎
He is a somatic and possibly victim (I suspect that he was a golden child) narcissist.
My Mid-Range Victim/Cerebral N was spoilt as a child. His Mum treated him too ‘special’… suffocated him with attention and praise. So, out in the big wide world, anyone who is not displaying the same attention towards him are going to be seen as ‘bad’. Genetics has to play a part though too. There are 3 other brothers to compete with and I’m guessing his Mum always wanted a girl. My N has very feminine behavioural traits and it makes me wonder if gender dysphoria and the ‘roles’ we’re forced into plays a part in our behaviour towards others – the feelings of inacceptance and the lack of groundedness can make someone very bitter inside.
The two relationships i have been in have been with somatics. The first was a lesser and the most recent, a mid ranger. They were both emotionally unavailable but extremely attractive (which is why I stayed). Initially my connection with both of them was to be purely physical and short term as I knew they were just they were were only eye candy. I spent 10 years with one and three with the other.
Out of both, the mid ranger was the most devastating as he had the education, calm temper and intellect to deceive. His father is a greater so he say all the manipulation perfected as a young child.
Since finding HG’s works I’ve realised there’s been several narcs, but I decided to click the poll for the one that did the most damage. I too am struggling to pick one cadre. The school is easy, MMRN. I clicked victim, although lots of the writings I’ve seen aren’t quite tallying up. There were definite somatic traits… but he isn’t good looking or ‘fit’ enough to fall into that cadre either, although maybe he thinks he is and I never fully bought into that 😉
So, in summary… he was a middle mid range, victim/somatic…. I pity any newbies with that have yet to make sense of all this! Keep reading 😀
My first boyfriend was a Victim Narcissist, the second Somantic and the last was a Victim.
Psychologically – the two Victim types affected me the most, and I was devastated at the end of the relationships. Still am – deep down…
The handsome Somantic (he discarded me) was much easier emotionally for me, as I knew he wanted a perfect looking woman and I knew I could never be *the one* for him.
So, after the discard – my emotions moved on quickly, and I was able to get along with him quite well at work with no hard feelings on either side.
I’ve struggled to determine whether some of the men in my life before Mr. Mid-Range Elite Narc were also narcs. And I think once we get wise to narcissism, there may be a tendency to try to apply the label to everyone with whom we had a relationship that went bad. No, to be fair, I don’t think the rest of them were narcs. Mostly, they were just assholes.
HAHA… too true… I did this too, and then gave myself a ‘calm yerself down luv’ talking to for over analysing! 😉
It’s what I do though, and I dare say I’m not the only one. As HG has said, it’s one traits of being an empath… needing to understand. I need to make sense of things, even things that don’t make sense. Also, to be fair, definitely had run ins with more than one. FML! 😉
RNarcoholic, i don’t think mid-rangers can be elite. I believe it is only reserved for the greater. Correct me if i’m wrong HG.
Yes a MMR and UMR can be elite.
Victim and somatic over here. I have much more experience with sociopaths and psychopaths….lol
working life:
Three lower Greaters over the years; all cerebral; versed in smear campaigns, tampering with statistics to fit their agendas, taking the credit for other peoples’ works etc. They’ve always just been miserable sods to me. But now that I realise how dangerous they are, I take precautions.
personal life:
One upper Mid-Ranger; cerebral and somatic, fluid depending on circumstances… he could be a complete cerebral one minute, discussing politics with me, and turn into a very sensual somatic the next, devouring me… I had been quite inexperienced and certainly never met anyone like him before… it was electrifying, I did not stand a chance!
But all is not gold that glitters, as we all know.
Addendum:
Having re-read the corresponding chapters with my narc in mind, I can say he is equally cerebral and somatic. He might be an upper Mid-Range Elite, but I cannot say with absolute certainty because the Golden Period was short and I have no one to compare him to in real life.
It delights me that I can pin him down with accuracy, like an entomologist would do with a newly discovered insect. Very satisfying to the mind! 😀
I’ve been involved with a few narcs but Narcypants was by far the worst. I believe he is a somatic/victim but there is cerebral traits there too. He is heavily into politics and enjoys a good debate. This is the side of him I miss the most, especially on election night tonight.
Somatic is the dominant cadre but his pity plays were off the chart and almost made him seem like a victim. Somatic sex obsessed
I roll with the lessers and my ex was a cerebral.
Yay, there is a new like button👏 Thank you HG.
Definitely is an elite, pretty balanced with the somatic and cerebral traits.
This is far more interesting than the bloody general election. Good call HG. Somatic btw. Just the one. Never again.
I love this poll HG! You keep coming up with the best ideas!!!
Great job!
Mine was a somatic and she definitely played the victim card. I was eye candy for her and she enjoyed it.
The seduction was so gradual and then turned powerful and when it turned to sex it was addicting. She always wanted it to be the best and she strived for it. Her colleagues and friends always went to her for tips and she loved every minute of it. She wore me out though and it’s no wonder I needed months of sleep after I got out.
It was eye opening to read about how it was all manipulated.
And after reading about how many all the others have been involved with I am grateful that I made it to 43 without being involved with one.
I believe my parents were narcs of different cadres and schools. I also believe my mother had a bit of the psychopath in her as well. Unlike HG, I don’t the ability to accurately label either one of them. In fact the less I think if them the better. They both died young, relatively.
Victim and somatic. The last was Somatic
Monster narc is:
-Calculating. He spends hours thinking.
-Manipulating. Too much to say on that one. Splitting/chaos and more.
-Holds his temper and let’s it out when he chooses. When not getting his way.
-Very controlling very demanding.
-Picked me as a wife (I could be codependent I’m not sure or don’t want to admit it) in my marriage battle I chose legal separation he countered divorce. Go figure what I am.
-the divorce mediator after talking to him came back to my room and plopped in his chair and blurted out “smoke and mirrors” I spaced out trying to figure out what that meant. But i just remember HGs words and I can get through this. So far he’s winning.
-I don’t call it word salad, I call it word circle of death. He’s good at it!
– he likes me to talk.
-hides money and great at it.
-went no contact for four months and it didn’t faze him a bit. His attorney pegged me of abandoning my home. I had to go back.
-boundary issues! Gawd. My poor kids.
-perfected the act of caring has a since of humor can talk to anyone.
– does anyone want him?
HG what is/are specific indicaters/traits of an elite greater that no others have?
Grandfather (surgeon) – Elite.
Father (tech-scientist) – Cerebral.
Cousin (tech-scientist) – Elite.
Uncle (tech-scientist) – Cerebral.
1st husband (musician, poet) – Somatic/Victim.
2nd husband (history scientist) – Elite.
Sister’s husband (electrician worker) – Victim.
Best friend (veterinary doctor) – Cerebral.
Several colleagues (med-scientists) – Cerebral.
Why engaged…
1. Family members.
2. Interesting people.
I would say I interacted with lots of somatics in my early 20s. In my late 20s early 30s elites started to emerge in personal and work related engagements and in 40s somatics and elites abounding in my professional life.
I think that as some narcissists reach maturity, some may shift in behavior or cadre. For instance somatics are still concerned with body image and may be into plastic surgery, but now that they have aged a little they become more cerebral on top of somatic. Opinions on everything as they are older, wiser, know so much more than you, etc.
I’ve had one victim, my mother and I guess I have such a keen sense of her “game” I never chose to replicate my relationship with her and thus never intimately engaged with one of her kind.
Sorry for any typos 👀
I was intimately involved with three men , all narcissists I believe and they were only men I ever wanted or been attracted to . Two of them were somatic I think and one elite for sure.
Combination of good look and intellect is the deadliest .
I have been too accommodating. Caring and understanding. I have previoudly succumbed to guilt trips in moments of emotional blackmail.
I was under the misapprehension that the person or people had had a rough time and would appreciate somebody genuine loving and caring in their life. Of course they did but not for the right reasons. I thought someone who had had a tough time would be somebody who was kind and also genuine in appreciating what it’s all supposed to be about which is to look after one another with love and respect with honesty and loyalty.
To add…I feel ive finally learned my lesson.
I feel enlightened to the greatest degree ever in my life following HGs work.I continue to learn and know that applying this knowledge will change my life for the better.
Thank you HG.
Letdown… I totally relate to this, as do many others here I’m sure.
I thought he was a good guy who’d been unlucky in his relationships. Of course, I now realise otherwise. I’m now on that list of women who did him wrong when all he did was be wonderful *rolls eyes*
Cerebral. And holy hell is he an addiction!!!! Good grief!
I can’t understand how anybody can be with multiple narcs in sequence. Yes, they seek you out for your empathic traits, but would you not realize frm previous experience that this is to be avoided a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time? I only had one experience. It was difficult for me, and i will stay away from any behavior that is suspicious or hurts me from anybody else in the future (even if i did not know about narcissism through my readings). Rn, i am still co-dependent on my ex narc and i do not like that feeling of dependency. Never will i engage with another person who shows even the slightest bit of manipulation. If i cannot spot the signs, then i would be even willing to stay away from men in general.
Jenna, you see how you repeatedly rationalise the narcissist you engage with in terms of his behaviour and how he “did not do this” and “wasn’t like that”? That is part of how people come to engage 2,3,4 or more times often with different narcissists. They also do not recognise what they are dealing with. They will normalise and euphemise the behaviours (just as you do) to be something else as they are conned (just as you are) by the emotional thinking and thus fail to recognise what they are with and fail to heed the red and black flags. They are also drawn to our kind because of the way that they are with some people being highly susceptible to the allure of our kind.
Some people do not realise until number four or five or beyond. Some realise but continue – as you have done.
Thx for your informative reply. But i have decided that i wish i had never met my narc due to my dependency. And i will never take the chance of being ensnared again (because it is easy to ensnare me and keep me forever ensnared). I am ever so gullible. For me,the only way to avoid the situation in the future is to stay away from men in general. I have my gf’s and my family. Good enough. But this sentiment can change at anytime since i am borderline and always up and down.
And no offense to anybody who has been with several narcs. Everyone is different and has their own set of experiences that makes them susceptible, unable to avoid etc.
For me (and not everyone will agree), i will never place myself in that situation again where i and another man will be alone together. My current SO is the one i will be with. I am not exposing myself to men again.
Jenna you are only as vulnerable as you allow yourself to be. Swearing off the opposite sex for life will not heal you. Empower yourself and you will love your life – no narc can get past the boundaries of someone who knows true self love. HG is right stop allowing a narc to validate you and find validation within yourself. Believe me, once this happens you will recognise that the behaviour of any narc in your past or future does not merit your time let alone your excuses. I was once you until I said stop. Try saying no to your narc for a week and just see how amazing you feel 🙂
WORD, HG!!!
That is absolutely right HG. When I am reading through your texts, I am always looking for traits and behaviours NOT present in my narc … and say to myself “Oh look, he isn’t so bad anyway. He could be much worse… I don’t have to go No Contact” and so on …
Shame on me….
Her chances of being entangled with another one after exposure to your blog and books are less than likely. RIGHT?? Well, let’s hope..
If you apply the knowledge gained here, yes.
Apply the knowledge and seize the power!!!
Bingo bango bongo !
Additionally Jenna, if it’s all you’ve ever known then you aren’t aware it is not normal and you start to blame yourself or chalk it up to “bad luck” – and most likely all that damn oxytocin – I wish I had been privy to HG’s information long ago. I am very logical and decisive in my professional life (obviously didn’t translate to my romantic life…). Logic and being direct appeals to me. The way HG explains how his kind’s logic works, albeit not my logic, made it all clear to me.
Very true wendy. Thank you.
Jenna, I (a Super Empath) told myself that same thing 30 years ago and then it happened. I never, in a million years, EVER, thought I would end up with a man like I had dealt with in the past, but I never realized how different they all can be. After learning all I have from HG, I now know my boundaries and I especially know how to protect myself from the red/black flags. You can say you’re cutting yourself off from men completely, but if you’re unprepared, someone is bound to blindside you again, even if it’s years down the road. 🙏😌💕
Hi Jenna. Are you sure your current boyfriend is not a narc as well? You’ve said certain things that made me question if he might be one too. Just a thought.
Yes i am absolutely positive. He is not affectionate nor warm, but he helps me in other ways. He is fatherly like lol. He earns 6 figures, has a very respectable career, so my family will practically disown me if i leave him. I couldn’t handle that. I know many pple will didagree with me but that’s how it is.
You have to do what is right for you. If being with him is it, then so be it. In my relationships, I may not have been treated well but I did enjoy their gifts … My last one was a bit older and the first man I had dated who had children. In a way, I enjoyed his fatherly ways, though I know now it was a facade.
*disagree
Jenna, I think a large part of it is because they are different types of narcs using different tactics. I got tricked that way with my Moron in Munich. He acted completely different to the narcs I was used to. Now after indepth study for a year and a half, I can spot the common traits that identify all of them.
And never forget the old “hope springs eternal.” A lot of people tell themselves, “This time will be different.”
I see. Thx windstorm.
Hi Jenna,
It is a fair question.
For me, and I can only speak for myself and my experience, I thought I was weeding out what I learned previously.
I didn’t know my 1st boyfriend of 5 years (I was a teen, left him at 19) was a lesser somatic narcissist. He was exciting, though no golden period. I thought he was an aggressive party animal who had his head up his ass. He was the classic bad boy. I went No Contact on him and moved hundreds of miles away as he stalked me.
So, the next guy (I waited 2 years to date again), I met him in my early 20’s and he was gentle, smart, not a bad boy at all. The golden period was LONG. It wasn’t until we were married that I realized something was not quite right, but still, I was young and wanted to make the marriage work. Well, after therapy and such, it was not working, he was very passive aggressive. I initiated divorce. That is when the monster came out, he stalked aggressively then and still does to this day, 20 years later. I never thought of him as a narcissist until I came here and realized he had the signs. I still think it is traits, but he is a hard core stalker (threatened me and tried to get me back many times).
Then I dated a true empath for 6 years. However, he was addicted to substances and I had to leave him. We remained good friends until he died last year. Heart of gold, just lost to addiction.
Then I dated for 10 years. I was too scared to really commit. I saw one man for 10 months when my mother was dying(wasn’t thinking clearly and I was blood in the water, sort to speak). He was a full on classic narcissist. I realized it about 3 months in. Classic. I also was more educated in psychology at this point in my life and recognized him. Still, I never thought the others were. This guy was a looker, had a good job, loved things….he ghosted me 2 weeks after my mother’s death. I then initiated true No Contact. Never seen him since. This was in 2005.
I dated some more and did my own healing. Two years ago, I met the last of my list. I fell hard. I wanted to get married and he checked off all my boxes. Good looking, super smart, charming as hell, and funny. There were a couple of red flags that I ignored. I ignored the fact that he proposed to me at the 3 month mark. I ignored the fact that he had an alcoholism history (though he was in recovery). He was the king of gaslighting, word salad, and psychological abuse that was vague, passive aggressive, and really toxic. More so than the others. He was self depreciating, so I didn’t think he was a narcissist at first at all. He wasn’t the mirror gazing, hot rod driving, self aggrandizing man that I used to think of when I thought, Narc. I fell hard, Love. Really hard. When I left him last year, I was heart broken. And….I was put on the path of narcissism by my clinical supervisor who said, read HG. Boom! It all made sense. I made my plan. I left. Went No Contact like a Pro and never looked back.
Now, there is some need for all of us to do introspection too. What is our role? Mine was the love for excitement, intelligence, the need to love and be loved, the desire to help others and fix things…and my co-dependent (12 step definition) nature. I recognized I hooked up with those that had a hard time loving me back. Now, I need to see why….and learn how to love myself fully. This is the best armor. Along with HGs armor 🙂
There is a saying in the Autism world, “If you have met one person on the autism spectrum, then you have only met one person’ and only know what one person looks like with Autism. This is the same with many things, like those with depression, anxiety, BPD, NPD, etc….there is a broad broad spectrum. And, HG is helping us weed through the fog to get the clarity.
Does that help explain how it can happen. It did to me. And I am in the mental health field. In diagnostics as well….And I didn’t know. It is insidious and mimics so many things. We do not expect to be conned and duped when you are an empathetic person. Now, my antennae are up.
We are all in it together, Jenna. Good question.
well said INDY… thank you
Thank you, Ms Brown😊. And Jenna, I’m not offended at all sweetie. It’s a good thing for all of us to explore….our own relationship paths and vulnerabilities 😊 You are growing Jenna, along with all of us! Take your time, I know I am. I’m not definitely sure I will not encounter another though I know what to look for better now and and side step those I see and perhaps have a short dance that will be like a Fox Trot next time…short, quick, and breathless 😂 rather than a long drawn out slow dance.
I am thankful you are not offended. I do not want to offend anyone but sometimes my bpd traits tend to come out and i say some things which perhaps i should not. Everyone has their own struggles and vulnerabilities. And you are right, we are all growing, and i believe we are learning about ourselves in the process.
Indy, your second passive aggressive narc which gave you a long golden period sounds like my ex. How long was the golden period?
I am sorry your empath ex boyfriend was addicted to substances and even more sorry you lost him due to his passing. He does sound like a kind man.
And the one who ghosted you two wks after your mother’s death- very immoral indeed. It is unthinkable.
Yes there is definitely a spectrum for autism, bpd, npd. For example, i am bpd but i don’t fit all the criteria for it.
Your explanation and HG’s explanation is helping me understand a little. Thank you both.
Hi Jenna,
My ex husband was not a straight forward narcissist and still to this day I debate if he was fully. The golden period was 2 years, gifts, trips, etc. We were like buddies, good friends during that time. I married him 2 years in and he did not push me for marrying quickly, like others have. He proposed the appropriate 12 months after we started seeing each other. He became more emotionally manipulative later on, after marriage, when we were living together. We were together for another 6 years after we married.
With that said, my ex husband was manipulative, triangulated and played pity-party with family at times. He had a highly successful ivy league family with lots of elite narcs in it. He triangulated me with a female “friend” of his (a major crush of his as well). He never gaslit me though. He didn’t call me names. He did do the silent treatment a few times, though not to the severity of my last ex.
Now, the monster in him came out when I asked for a divorce. (Because he was loosing control of me) He actually FAKED a suicide attempt!! My son and I walked in from a day of being out of the house, after I asked for the divorce. He was sprawled across the bed, acting half conscious with empty bottles all around the bed. It terrified me as I thought it was for real. I called the ambulance, brought him to ER. They told me he was fine, had nothing in his stomach (they pumped his stomach) and essentially he faked it. Then they asked me if I wanted to send him to a psychiatric facility or bring home. I said commit his ass. I was pissed! Then, while he was in the hospital, I moved out. When he came home, he was livid. His family smeared me, he smeared me. (They were high society types and it was a bruise on their “image” to have him committed). He then stalked me, found my car and ripped all the wires out. He threatened me over my security video, through letters (wishing I would die), etc. Then begging me to come back. I had to get a restraining order. He then sent letters, money and emails and messages over the years…begging for contact.
It is important to remember, I divorced him in 98!!! He is STILL hovering. Even after all the times I did not contact him AT ALL.
So, that is my ex-husband. Haha
Hi Jenna,
“And the one who ghosted you two wks after your mother’s death- very immoral indeed. It is unthinkable.”
Oh, him…Jesus. I am glad it was only 10 months and that he ditched me. He was malicious. And I do not use that term lightly.
Hi jenna
Ive not read any of your updates. Are you talking with your ex? I remember you posting that you werent speaking and he blocked, then unblocked you online. Hopefully youre no contact. He sounds very manipulative.
Narcaffair, i posted an update of my situation under ‘the crying game part four’ about a week ago, but HG has not had the time to post it yet.
Hi jenna, thx ill go look for it!
Jenna,
my narcissists were all completely different and I also had no idea what I was dealing with as there was no information out there and noone(!!!) to ask month after month after month in a row on a daily basis about “ooooh he has done this now, what does it mean ….”.
They also seemed normal to me at first _because_ I was raised by narcissists and was used to their arrogance and their behaviour in every respect.
Once I did realize what my ex-narc is, I at least did not start over again with the SAME one against all better knowledge and advice.
None of them came with a sign on their head but seemed to be perfect. I was about to tell you “good luck” spotting this in future, but luckily you say yourself now that you couldn’t be sure to spot the signs. And I think Love has a point there.
Ava101, I agree that if you’re raised by narcs and surrounded by them, it is only natural to consider them normal and your differences defective. When I was husband shopping at 16, I wouldn’t have given a non-narc the time of day.
lol windstorm2 sorry your comment made me shudder “husband shopping” my greatest fear a husband I don’t fear much but that thought really does give me nightmares. Yet I desire that to. Go figure. It will never happen again thou.
What made you shudder, Twilight? The idea of husband shopping? I was very methodical about it. I had a detailed checklist and every item was worth so many points totalling 100. I never dated anyone because I knew how guys lie and try to deceive, but I closely observed every guy I met and rated them. It obviously was a very difficult test, because only 3 guys ever even passed (above 60). My husband scored 89 and the other two were in the 60’s. Even after I married I kept rating every guy I met, to be sure I hadn’t chosen poorly. I didn’t want to end up one of those older women complaining about how “if I only could do it again.”
I realize now that I was looking for a cerebral narcissist, although I didn’t know the terms back then. There were quite a few “automatic fails” in my potential husband test. One of those automatic fails was if he showed any romance at all. I knew that romantic men (narcs) were serial cheaters and could never be trusted. I got what I was looking for. If I had known back then that he was missing emotions and could never love me, I might searched differently, but then given my upbringing and values, I might have ended up with no one, or just as unhappy.
Hello Windstorm2!
I WANT a checklist that I can use for everyone that I talk to. Lol
That sounds like a perfect idea and I love that there is a scoring system.
Right now I report to my therapist who I talk to and if I think they are “safe” or not. I have very few that I would call that. Not that there is anything wrong with the others but it’s better to be safe than sorry for me. I don’t want tangled up in any more messes.
We have to do what we can. ❤️
Windstorm2
marriage is signing a document and then it being used against you. FORGET that. It scares the daylights out of me.
It is a contract, Twilight. That’s how I always thought of it. I’m with you now, though. I’d never sign over that much power over my life again willingly. My freedom and independence are too precious to me! I’m holding on to them tightly with both hands! Dread the day when I can no longer take care of myself and end up chained in my daughters basement. 😝😝
Lol chained in your daughters basement
As long as it isn’t the Tudor basement, I have read stories about that place…..;)
I was forced to marry my husband, and his family was the surprise bonus gift of evil. You know those scenes in vampire movies one person several vampires feeding at the same time off of them, ya I know what that character was feeling.
😝😝😝 that cracked me up, Twilight! Love your vampire analogy!! If I were a more creative person, I’d rewrite my childhood story as a vampire/minion/victim story. I imagine it’d be very therapeutic!
I do have another option to my domineering and authoritative daughter’s basement. Our sons plan for elderly parent care is to go together and buy a duplex. Then put me in one end and my exhusband in the other. That way we can “take care of each other.” When ever they think I’m running thru my savings too fast they say, “Remember Mom, duplex with dad!” 😳
lol windstorm2 you should write one if for nothing else just for therapeutic reason for you.
I have always been fascinated with vampires, I understand why now.
A duplex with the ex to be reminded, now that’s funny.
Ava, thx for your comment. I am slowly understanding from all the comments here. Thanks everyone for taking the time to explain frm your personal experiences.
Ava, If you’re talking about Love’s point that my SO might be a narc, no he definitely isn’t. He feels happiness, sadness, empathy, love, fear, etc. (all the emotions narcs don’t feel). And he puts on no facade. He displays what he is and what he is not with pride and no care in the world. He is just not affectionate, warm, talkative, engaging, too caring etc. It makes me sad but he manages my health, and his qualities balance mine. I know my shortcomings by now, and i know i need him. He is a doer. He gets the job done. What did i just say? He manages my health?! Am i the victim narc?! Lol! No, i’m not. I have the entire spectrum of emotions oozing out of me uncontrollably. Sometimes i wish i was not so emotional. It’s debilitating at times.
Love, you are correct. Ultimately, we have to do what’s right for us and our families because we are the ones living it on a daily basis. HG, pls don’t think this means continue to extract negative fuel frm women! We have to consider what’s morally correct as well. 🙏
Exactly, windstorm.
When I was 16 I climbed out of the window of my parents’ house to meet with my first love, who must have been an elite narcissist. I so tried to escape that childhood home …
Your checklist for finding a husband at 16 is priceless. 🙂 Sad that you didn’t know back then that this meant not much compassion, emotions or being affectionate on his side. 🙁
No, I guess one never knows what the alternative would have been. Considering our upbringing, it seems unlikey that we would have gotten together with a more loving partner otherwise (if we hadn’t met the one we got entangled with, or married to in your case).
Oh Ava you cracked me up!! I used to climb out of my bedroom window at 16, too!! I had a very early curfew, so I’d wait till my parents were asleep, climb out the window, down a fence, fire up my little car with the lights off, creep out of the drive and hit the road! Usually had 4-5 hours before danger of my parents waking up. Once I was engaged, my future husband came too of course. It was a glorious period of freedom! Had unlimited free gas (We kept a 250 gallon tank for the tractor). I kept those roads hot!! 🚗🌌
Mine have all been different. Somatic Wins. Looks like at first I wanted the bad ass guy followed by the hot guy and finished with the smart guy.
I’m making progress. Next guy Normal.
7 years with victim
17 years with somatic
2 years with cerebral
Hi Serena,
Cheers to that!! But…what the heck IS normal LOL
Indy
I don’t know, but if I figure it out I will let everyone know.
The vision of being with ‘normal ‘ guy terrifies me for some reason.
I’d prefer smart and hot 🙂
P.s. what a great poll to get the brain ticking over! Thank you.
So my first experience with a narcissist was a Lesser Somatic in my teens -Boyfriend (5 years)
Next-Husband(8 years) was a Mid-range Cerebral
Next was a boyfriend of 10 months (Midrange Elite, with more somatic traits)
Recent ex fiance (2 years) (Upper Midrange Cerebral with Somatic traits).
Good god, I only have been with one person long term (6 years) that was a true empath, heart of gold (unfortunately addicted to substances, a very kind soul)
Soooooo….no wonder I am fearful of dating ever again. Hahahaha
(Yay the like buttons are back!)
I have been involved with many and all types but I would say somatic and victim hit the top of the leader board equally.
*disclaimer* my answers to the next part are very un-PC and purely my own opinions. To be able to answer I have made sweeping generalizations that are unfounded and merely from my own experience and point of view.and I recognise each individual case and person is different and should be treated as an individual case* 😆
I believe that all types are probably somewhere around equal in number at present but I also believe that will change with time and we will see more victim and somatic types due to the society we live in.
I believe there are probably more elite and cerebal amoungst the older generation at least in the UK and this is again due to the society we live in. I don’t think intelligence over rules somatics in our society today. Being ‘famous’ or ‘good looking’ seems to be much more attractive than intellectual merits in today’s society. Therefore more will rely on their looks rather than intelligence. Also being victim is more acceptable and easier in today’s society where we pussy foot around people and sue a mascara manufacturer for a fractured eyelash (“fractured eyelash’ stolen from HG) thus making it easier for the narc to rely on his/her victim status for attention.
I’m not sure if a narc can change schools according to what works best for him/her (HG?) But I could definitely see more elite narcs realising that looks and sob stories get them more attention than their intelligence and therefore shifting towards a mix of somatic and victim. HG is that possible?
Also, and the last part of my genralisation, I believe we may have the most contact with a particular type of narc due to our individual enviroment. I.e. if we want to Uni we would be more involved with the cerebal and elite. If we left school at 16 and went to work in a manual job we would possibly encounter more victim or somatics.
Reading that back it really is un-PC and generalizing. Sorry if it offends anyone! Please refer back to my disclaimer! 😊
I think your right, Karen about our choices affecting who we interact with like going to college or not. But I wonder about the culture affecting the type of narc. I’m sure it may to an extent, but it also may just make it harder to identify them. My personal feeling is that they are naturally a certain type of narcissist and have to fit into their environment best they can. When we were young, the only decent jobs were factory jobs. My husband worked for years on the line at Holley Carburator, while putting himself thru school. He was still a cerebral narc in his oil covered flannels and jeans. Being natural chameleons, they can blend into whichever society they find themselves.
Hi Windstorm, that’s really interesting and has given me more to think about. I tend to agree with you and that’s mainly why I wrote my disclaimer haha because I know no one case is black and white and I didn’t want to appear like I was stereotyping.
I guess economical climate is another major factor that will come into play and why we see a variety of cadres within the same enviroment. I think at the opposite side of what you have told me about your cerebral working in a factory is that many narcs will rise to a higher position within an industry not because they have earned it but because they are by nature calculating, cunning and willing to tread on anyone and everyone to achieve what they desire. (Trump springs to mind…not sure why 😉)
Thanks for sharing windstorm and thanks for giving me more to mull over!
Forget Trump. Let’s talk about Comey. Covert with borderline aspects and an elite. A real piece of shit.
I watched his hearing today. He called Trump a liar at least 3 times.
They are all liars
He should have told us something that we don’t know 😄
Horseyak, yours is an interesting take on Comey. Would you mind expounding on it. I think you could shed some light on coverts, who slip by our defenses.
HG, I have a question for you…
you have said that you’ve had this therapy/blog imposed on you because of your behavior and the fact that your family knows that you are a narc…
does matrinarc have to submit to therapy like this? and if so why not? has she not been revealed for what she is?
sorry…that should say “and if not*”
No she does not.
Because circumstances were different.
Not yet.
I’d guess Victim to be the most popular, as it’s an easier manipulative tactic. It’s a covert façade job. An opposite if what they are. Something harder to detect as a lie. Something Empaths fall for quicker.
There is only one Elite. HG.
With a somatic, you’re already half way there to guessing. And there is lots of them about, but with loving themselves they can deceive the fact they also have love for others.
With a Cerebral (these would come a close second), as theyre intelligent and charming (we dig that shit).
he was very much the victim and played the role very well… he had the perfect alibi to support his self-sabotage, his lack of remembering the abusive things he does, gets him out of having to work or out of getting fired for a longer time then anyone (unless he wants to), and so on and so forth… and he milks it for all it’s worth with no remorse what-so-ever… of course… and his mother knowing what he is and still choosing to be his number 1 flying monkey…
too bad for him I no longer feel any guilt over his BS or his former threats of suicide should I leave him… that one he learned the hard way not to use… now he can appeal to any lonely empathic women online with his “woeth me” and “she was so mean and nasty to me” smear-tales because I called him out on his behaviors… I’m such a B… well… yes but I’m not HIS B… When I told him that he asked who’s B I was.. wouldn’t he like to know…
grin
HG, as I was listening to your interview yesterday, I was trying to decide which cadre my ex fits into. I listened to that part about four times, but it’s really hard for me to say. I don’t think Somatic because he doesn’t spend too much time on his looks, he also doesn’t spend too much money on clothes and other things. But then again he goes to the gym all the time, but never listened to my advice even though I’m very educated when it comes to fitness and nutrition and hence doesn’t have the body of someone who goes to the gym all the time. His clothes are mostly old, and not very tasteful, objectively. But maybe that’s because he doesn’t have as much money as he made me believe, or has addictions that swallow a lot of money. So maybe he’d be “more” Somatic if he had more money. Cerebral is a possibility because he likes it when someone tells him his smart, spends a ton of time doing more or less intellectual things, and likes surrounding himself with intelligent people. I doubt that he’d date anyone who doesn’t at least have an MA. He also started studying a year ago (he already has a degree). So seeing how he’s a bit both Somatic and Cerebral, that would mean he’s Elite. But he sucks so much at being Somatic that I don’t think he is Elite. I think the fact that he has lied so much about everything makes it hard for me to be sure which cadre he is because who knows how successful he really is or if he has some gambling, sex, porn, whatever addiction.
Victim/Cerebral combined.
Mainly Victim.
Mine is Somatic. That how he hooked me and that’s how he keeps me. If every man worked that jar to please a woman just by judging her reaction to what he does…there would be no war! I find it a shame that it takes a Personality Disorder to produce something so addictive…so exquisite…I’m 54 and he is the best man in bed I’ve ever had. Hands down. But he hasn’t worked a real job in 9 years. Lives in a camper in his mother’s driveway. And he’s 54 also. He even believes his own lies I think. General rule is, if it comes out his mouth it’s 99% bullshit. But the sex….almost makes up for it. I don’t need a man to support me. Or even one to marry. So for now I’m keeping him around for the sex. I’ve never done that before. Even after all he’s done to me. I’m not going to throw that kind of earth shattering sex out the window. And don’t judge until you’ve been there. Lol
Mymasterstoy…i can relate! The sex is astounding!!! That is his forte! Id miss that a lot. I just have to remind myself tho that the sex leads to bonding on my part which isnt good in an abusive relationship.
That is the problem now isn’t it? If only we could have the bang fest without giving a fuck. Lol
‘bang fest’ lol! You make me laugh dr. Q. I’m sexually conservative so i can’t even imagine such a thing! Haha!
I’m getting to where it doesn’t upset me as much. His discards are on a weekly basis. I’m a “stupid bitch” blah blah blah. I used to cry scream and beg. Recently I started just disappearing for a couple of days instead of what I normally do. We’ll see how this turns out. He’s an excellent fuck. But a piece of shit human. I just want to enjoy the sex for a while
Dr. Harleen, thats just it were not like the narc and we do end up bonding as a result of the sex. Bang fest..😂 thatd sum up our sexual rendez vous.
Mymasterstoy, in a way i wish my narc lacked in the other areas for me itd be easy to walk away but he knows how to hook me. Hes become my best friend and confidant. I cringe saying that because it seems untrue. He is and isnt. He is when things are going his way and isnt ehen his narc switch is turned on. The npd ruins it. Damn disorder! 👎😭
We should remind ourselves of the risk of obtaining STD is much worse than bonding. One of the posters shared her story how pap results came back normal but later found out she was affected with HPV. Sex suddenly doesn’t sound so good neither does the memories. Most will not go to doctor and definitely do not like to wear protection. The false self believes they are exempt from diseases.
sex is his “tool” and i hope you see it for what it is, while you are enjoying it. soon, it will be withdrawn from you for a different control mechanism and to draw fuel from you…
I can understand you very well, mymasterstory!!!!
That damn oxytocin will getcha every time lol.
I love how most people speak of this mind blowing sex – I’ve yet to encounter that lmao. I mean mine knew what he was doing and I feel like you can train anyone to get you off in that mechanical way. Mine narc just wasn’t my ideal “sexual style” lol.
Dr Harleen
Thats a great point. A lover can learn ways to get their partner off but its much more than just the mechanical act. Thats where the greaters know how to put more into it and they study their supply source really well to know exactly how they like it both physically and mirroring the emotional side as well. They are pristine actors but lets not forget many narcs also get fuel from knowing how good they are in bed too. What comes off as being a giving lover can be them wanting to boost their egos knowing how much they can get us to orgasm and react. The more i praise and react the more he performs so i know its doing something to fuel him while i enjoy the benefits of his trying to out perform himself each time.
Not all narcs go to this trouble and would rather their fuel in other ways. You know when its just not there.
At least some people got some awesome sex outta the deal lol! Instead I got whining, pushing, bitching, and some passive aggressive punishment mixed up in a blender with a dildo or one of those like new sex toys that’s makes it feel like someone’s putting their mouth down below lol.
Honestly, I wouldn’t have cared why the greater narc did an awesome job – shit I’d encourage it lmao because we both benefit.
Interesting stats so far, that 14 readers have been with Elite narcissists. Not suprising to me the victim narcissists is the most prevalent. That was my vote as well.
Somatic- because I have an eye for beautiful things…turned out he wasn’t beautiful at all
# 1 husband of 12 years: ELITE (CEO NYLC Insurance Company)
# 2 husband of 10 years: CEREBRAL (Criminal Defence Attorney)
# 3 husband (current & n/c) of 13 years: VICTIM
Hey! My cerebral exhusband’s a prosecuting attorney! But that probably should be no surprise. The court houses are full of them!
… yes, thats why they are so dangerous
… yes, thats why they are so dangerous windstorm !
Oh my goodness Ms. Brown. I daresay husband #2 sounds the most dangerous. A cerebral and criminal attorney. Though husband #1 and 2 together would be a force to be reckoned with. Thank goodness narcs don’t play well with others.
he was dangerous as he had
the “good ‘ole boys” support and of course $$$
Ms brown, I am so sorry. I have had three as well, even though I swore I was done after #2. #3 came out of nowhere like a tornado.
#1 husband SOMATIC
#2 husband CEREBRAL (off and on for 12 years) my dad is also an elite and/or cerebral
#3 husband VICTIM …I recognized it after two months and escaped.
SO DONE!
Hi Free Bird… good thing you got away from #3 right away…. mine ended the 13 year “formal relationship” after all my “residual” benefits ($$$) were mostly depleted… plus I just shut down, my bright item dimmed and of course he had to go to one of his IPSS and “promote” her to IPPS…. and yes a wealthy divorce that can take care of him now (since i no longer can/will)…. I can not stress enough how if I had found HG a long time ago, Id be in a different place now… but better late than never…. at least now I understand
Can they be a blend of two? The most dangerous, frightening and longest relationship I have ever been entangled with is a cerebral/elite.
He is literally the most intelligent person I have ever met. You can watch the wheels spinning in his eyes. Completely lost in thought of his next move. He advocates for any fuel source he can find.
He is also elite. He is most proud of his hair. His full head of silver hair. Then there is his voice. Smooth as butter with the ability to yell in a booming voice as he addresses the jury in his latest case. He commands a room upon entry, he is funny, fit, tells great stories (lies) and makes everyone feel either unworthy or grateful to be in his presence. BUT appears to be ever the humble gentleman while making sure he has power over everyone in town. He is lauded as having the best marriage in the community, highest achieving children and most beautiful grandchildren.
My lovely mother is a victim narcissist. I detest the victim narcissist.
I can’t say anymore. I feel sick now.
I think I have come across one that fits multiple categories.
Somatic – serial cheater, had multiple girlfriends, had to have attention from the opposite sex constantly be that through work flirtations. What scared me the most was just how much attention from that many woman he needed. Watches a lot of porn.
Victim – always had a negative story to tell, always felt “sick”, said he had an awful mother, a manipulative sister, an absent father, lied about his dad having cancer for months then lied about his dad dying, everything always about him and how much he was going through. A complete victim of life that took no responsibility for the cheating, lying and manipulation. Always claimed to be near car accidents.
Cerebral – not sure I quite understand this one but he has a good job that lets him travel business class a lot which he loves, he lies about achievements, awards he’s won at work and how much people at work compliment him, he has had this job for 6 years (since he graduated university) and it’s probably the most important thing in his life. When there was even a risk of people at work finding out about his lies, he went to the police and lied about me harassing him. Scary guy. He wants to be a CEO and do an MBA, but he has been told he’s arrogant and cold at work so I don’t imagine he would get there on a popularity vote. Obsessed with work status and material things like his car and house.
I contemplated this as well, because all 3 of mine had Somatic tendencies also, but diminished as they aged… I wonder what HG’s thoughts would be about this?
Please see answer provided.
What do you make of all these traits HG? Would be interested to hear your opinion!
Looking at them I would comment as follows.
1. There are certainly somatic qualities there agreed.
2. These are victim traits and these are applicable to many of our kind but they would not make the individual here a Victim Narcissist.
3. Some of these traits actually are somatic and a number are cerebral.
I would go into greater detail myself to provide an authoritative determination but based on this, the individual is either an Elite or a Cerebral with some somatic tendencies (having multiple girlfriends and watching porn a lot can apply to somatic and cerebrals because neither necessarily mean engaging in a lot of sex).
Cerebral, and then victim. I’m still not sure which one my sister is. Possibly elite. Or just the witch kind.
Forgot to mention ive known a lot of victim narcs. My sil is married to one. When she met him he was living in his mums bsmt suite. They lived there rent free until she passed away and got the house. They bought a home and he never works and he squandered every cent away on changing up vehicles and by relying on her income which is next to nothing. They are penniless and he still refuses to work bc of his fake health conditions. He has no concept of money or what it takes to save any buy things. Hes always been looked after financially. He sulks and plays the pity card along with creates a living hell for her bc hes too miserable to make changes. Victim narcs are the bottom of the barrel narc. They have no backbone and leach off of everyone while dragging them down. Theyre not very intelligent either. My least fav cadre 👎
sounds familiar, my 3rd husband, though he was a work- aholic in medial jobs, but had a BA! ….i can relate… i am still reeling on some days
HG, I would like to know which type my ex Narc is?
Has been a con all his life, makes money and spends it to look good. Lives on a fixed income another con game, drives the best car, lives with his mother, uses dating sites to seduce with the Bible.
Spent two years in prison for drug smuggling 30 years ago. Went awol from service when drafted.
I would need more detail, but based on the information provided he is likely to be Somatic and Lower Mid-Range.
I’ve dealt with many narcissists but the primary one was a strong mixture of victim/somatic. I am only allowed to vote for one or the other.
Nice photo, HG! My favourite of all. Un brin mystérieux.
Mine was somatic. Completely somatic. I have a hard time saying what he has done. I’ll try to explain the bizarre behavior but it embarrasses me to say it. So much shame.
Trust me, I have felt the exact same way when I write it all down! But it is worth doing, speak your truth. We all have reasons we stayed, don’t beat yourself up for it because once you acknowledge everything, you can learn so much about yourself 🙂
I know that feeling. Mine is into BDSM. Master/slave
so was mine…
…his way of countering being a victim… mother issues as well I am certain… so he felt (still does) all females should be subservient to all males… BDSM/Gor(even if Taboo) hides a lot of abusive narcs under the pretense of being “alpha male”…
I will point out here though that BDSM submissives are different then slaves (i.e. Gor) where the submissive is in fact supposed to be in control of how far the Dom/me goes… unlike a slave who has no rights at all… which is why abusers end up joining Gor…not that all Dom/mes or Gorean are abusive, some are very respectful…
except the concept of slave is romanticized greatly unlike a real slave who gets no “love” from their “owner” and is very much illegal…
Where a Gorean slave is in fact trained more like a traditional Japanese Gaisha, in all the ways to please males… ALL the ways to please… so you can imagine how tempting that is for a narc…
only at some point you wake up and realize how many of them you cannot trust to have your back which is the reason submissives join up… to give up control to someone they CAN trust… and end up with an abusive git instead of the strong, respectful, decent alpha male they can trust to protect and respect them that they hoped for/were looking for…
Ali herself was dragged into those… and emerged knowing herself more deeply and understanding very much how it is that these lifestyle choices attract narcs so much…
Marjorie, I am entangled with a somatic narcissist too. An upper lesser somatic narc.
I can imagine what you went through. I am blogging about my incredible experiences since August 2016. Believe me, I went through many many shameful situations!
HG Tudor’s book “Sex and the Narcissist” was extremely claryfying (and hurtful at the same time) to read. With that book HG delivers the one-to-one theoretical background-description and explanation of what I went through.
Hugs! Ursula
Hey HG. I have all of them in my family and acquaintances. I’d have to say victims are the most common. I had to fob off one of those just yesterday wanting a hand out. Somatics would be right up there too, because they engage with so many people. Definitely elites would be the rarest, I’d think, because there would just naturally be less narcs with both cerebral and somatic than with only one. People tend to pick what they think is their best trait and focus on it. My personal favorite is cerebral, but unfortunately not a lot of those. 🙁
I engaged with a Somatic.
This one was a toughie and the school of narcissist i wouldve found easier to choose from.
I think the results pretty much summed up what i guessed to be the most prevalent cadre. Id thought victim which is a close runner up.
Ive come across many elites thru work but ive not personally been involved with one yet a greater i have and am presently with. Possibly hes a greater midrange. Cadre for my narc is a hard one to pinpoint. Hes not a somatic yet he takes an interest in his looks and is attractive but never boasts. Hes a mild cerebral not overly cerebral in the way he comes across but he loves to learn and engage in interesting conversations. Hes very interested in politics. Victim cadre id say no hes never been a whigner or sponged money. Always independant. So im not so sure where that leaves him as far as cadre. I do know one thing and thats that he is a covert narc! Passive aggressive is his middle name.
Im interested to see others votes and thoughts. Cadre isnt an easy one with my narc.
Omg curious he sounds exactly like my ex. Attractive and well built but never boasts, never sponges money, always independent, likes to engage in interesting and philopsophical conversations. Passive aggressive is his middle name too. He is a covert somatic introverted passive aggressive mid-ranger.
Hi jenna
Yes thats my narc exactly! You have me thinking maybe hes a milder version of somatic. Maybe each cadre has its own spectrum mild being in that he takes pride in his appearance but doesnt boast. I always thought of a somatic as overtly vain but maybe there is a milder version.
The narc is exactly how you described.
Yes perhaps a milder version Curious. I will be reading your posts with interest and curiosity going further.
HG, I don’t know if you have observed President Trump enough to take a guess at what kind of narcissist he is, or even if you think he is a narcissist. Would you shed some light on that, if you don’t mind? Thank you.
Please see https://narcsite.com/2017/04/06/a-very-potus-narcissist-2/
No surprises, HG! Thanks for sharing.
I have experienced all 4 cadres but somatics have been the majority… In every aspect of my life.