Sadistic Streak

sadistic

You could be forgiven for thinking that all of our kind are sadists. From your perspective, much of our behaviour, if not all, makes no sense and therefore it could be argued that to behave in the manner that we do must mean that we are all sadists. That is an understandable proposition. After all, if one day a person is kind to you and then the next is nasty to you when you have given them no reason to behave like that, then surely such behaviour is sadistic is it not? The behaviour has no grounding in any logic, the nastiness is manifesting just for the hell of it, is it not? Are we then not deriving pleasure from your hurt and discomfort and therefore that must makes us sadists?

A true or pure sadist is one who derives pleasure from the sadistic act. This often manifests in a sexual arena in that the act of sadism is acted out in a sexual engagement or the sadist becomes sexually aroused from the sadistic act (which may not be sexual in nature). Accordingly, a sadist may derive sexual pleasure from flagellating a bound and gagged individual. Similarly, a sadist may become sexually aroused from murdering the pet kitten of someone else.

Those of you have familiarity with my works will understand that fromm the narcissistic perspective, what we do is not done solely for pleasure (indeed we do not experience pleasure or joy) but rather it is done for the purposes of gaining fuel. It is our need for fuel which is the driver behind all of our behaviours because the emotional response of another provides us with the validation that we desperately require to fill up the void which exists inside of us.

The acquisition of fuel occurs in many, many arenas. It might be gaining a smile from an appreciative stranger as get in a lift with them, from the tears of our partner who is crying after we have held them by the throat and described how much we hate them or from them ecstatic groans of our lover as we provide them with orgasmic relief. In each instance, fuel is what flows, fuel is the aim and fuel is what is required.

All of our kind receives fuel from the emotional response of others. We do not feel joy from inflicting pain on you because we do not feel joy. Your pained expression provides fuel. It could be tears, it could be a smile, it could be laughter. As long as there is an emotional response then we gain fuel.

When you are hurt from our manipulations this is a by product of our need to gain fuel. It is a collateral consequence. Our lack of empathy means that we do not care that you are hurt. However, it goes further than this. The reduced cognitive function of the Lesser (and to some degree the lower echelons of the Mid-Ranger) means that not only do they not care that you are being hurt, they do not know you are being hurt. They see an emotional reaction and that provides fuel (although of course they do not know the mechanics of that operation). They cannot recognise the pain. I appreciate this will be rather hard for some people to grasp – how can he not know I am hurt when I am telling him so and he sees my face twisted in pain and the tears spilling down my face? The fact is, those members of our brethren neither care nor know. Thus when you are manipulated it is done purely for the fuel, it is not done primarily to hurt you. This is cold comfort nevertheless as the outcome remains the same. You are hurt.

Where we have a sadistic streak (and this is more prevalent with the upper echelons of the Mid-Range and the Greater Narcissist) we know we are hurting you and we do not care. The knowledge of your hurt adds further fuel. Accordingly, your emotional response which we witness provides us with the fuel (in the same way as a Lesser or lower echelon Mid-Ranger would) but the knowledge you are being hurt and we are causing this, provides  us with extra potent fuel.

A sadist behaves in the way that he or she does purely for the sake of pleasure. We do not do it. If we have a sadistic streak then we deploy it in our machinations for two purposes:-

  1. The provision of extra-potent fuel as described above; and
  2. For the purposes of punishment and revenge.

Our aim, through this sadism, is not solely pleasure but rather the reinforcement of our superiority. Not all of our kind wish to punish, hence, they have no sadistic streak. The Mid-Ranger who has lost his primary source will feel fury for this transgression but he is far more likely to direct his energies to applying an Initial Grand Hoover to get you back and reinstate the golden period. He has no urge to punish you. Even if that IGH fails, he will then focus on recruiting a new primary source and he will leave you alone. There may be benign follow-up hoovers when he devalues the new primary source, but there is still no desire to punish you He may be looking to ‘win you back’ or just gain positive fuel. If this fails, he may not apply a malign hoover, but instead will leave you be before returning at a later juncture with another benign hoover (if conditions are right).

If you have been discarded by a Lesser but you keep trying to find out why he has discarded you, he will apply malign hoovers. This is not done as an act of revenge, but is rather done to make you stay away so he can focus on his new primary source and so you will not spoil this golden period by telling lies (the truth) about him to the new primary source. He wants you deleted and the malign hoovers are a response to your interference.

If you find yourself in a situation where you know that your particular narcissist has a new primary source, you are doing nothing to enter the spheres of influence but your narcissist will not leave you alone and is applying malign hoovers against you, this is evidence of the sadistic streak. It manifests as a malicious obsession which causes you to enter the sixth sphere of influence (see the relevant section in What is Making Him Come Back? ) and then the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.

The relevant narcissist may not actually receive any Proximate Fuel from you as you are treated to these malign hoovers because he cannot see your reactions, so you may wonder, why would he do this? The reasons are as follows:-

  1. The sadistic streak means that he is willing to sacrifice the fuel he is gaining from the new primary source to carry out this sadistic, malign campaign against you. Usually, the narcissist will want to gorge on this positive fuel from the new primary source and keep his attention on this person, but where there is a sadistic streak, he is willing to use some of this fuel to power the malicious campaign against you as the discarded or escaped former primary source.
  2. The sadistic behaviour allows for the provision of Thought Fuel as the sadistic narcissist contemplates your terrified reactions and it is his perception of how you feel (even though he cannot see it and thus it is not Proximate Fuel) . Ordinarily, a non-sadistic narcissist would not bother to apply the energy to gain this weaker Thought Fuel but a sadistic narcissist will do so.
  3. Our superiority is maintained by doling out punishment and revenge. A non-sadistic narcissist would seek that reinforcement with a new primary source (because it is easier to gain that positive fuel from them and to focus on them solely). The demands of the sadistic narcissist are such that he requires this ratification and validation from both current primary source (positive fuel) and discarded former primary source (negative Thought Fuel and the power felt from the application of revenge).

Accordingly, when you are entangled with a narcissist, so that the Formal relationship is continuing and you are being devalued, and he exhibits sadistic behaviours towards you, this is for the purposes of gaining extra potent fuel. If the sadism occurs post escape or discard, this is done to punish you. If Proximate Fuel arises, so much the better but if it does not, this is not a massive concern to the sadistic narcissist because we are willing to sacrifice the fuel gained from another source in order to power our desire to achieve revenge over you.

Since you look at matters from your perspective and not ours, you may find it difficult to truly distinguish when sadistic behaviour is being used against you during the Formal Relationship. It is, however, at its most recognisable when you have escaped us or have been discarded. If you know we have a new primary source but there is a campaign of hurtful behaviour being used against you – slashing the tyres on your car, putting bricks through your windows, posting unsavoury comments about you online, handing outflyers accusing you of child abuse and such like – this is the sadism being manifested. This is not a smear because the smearing happens prior to your discard (so we have got in first) or if you have escaped, the smear will happen before we get another primary source. The key determining factor in knowing that you are facing a sadistic narcissist is that we have a new primary source and instead of relishing solely in the golden period with them, we are lashing out at you again and again.

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38 thoughts on “Sadistic Streak”

  1. It is very interesting topic and I was thinking about it a lot.

    We have a total mess with terminology – Narcissist, Sociopath, Psychopath. No one can give the cogent distinction of what that means. What differs them? What behavioural sign could give a clue? The more I read, the more I become confused…

    All of those terms imply lack of empathy, lack of remorse, lack of gilt, entitlement, hyperinflated ego, impulsivity, anger control problem, etc…we all know those signs. And those signs are the components of steady and persistent pattern. Yeah. But again, considering this pattern, why we call this person a Sociopath, and that person a Psychopath? Based on what? Sociopath sounds more pleasant then Psychopath? Oh là là.

    I have a suspicion, that your own concept of Fuel and intensity of Sadistic streaks could give a definitive clue to resolve the terminology chaos, Tudor.

    Your own concept of Fuel has 3 central parts – level of demand, quality (intensity) and quantity of Fuel you need to function. And, according to that, your social behavior depends on whether you “fuelled” enough or not. For some people it is very enough to say “You are so brilliant, so beautiful. I’m so happy to have you!”, and they would be “fuelled” enough for whole day. But for some people it isn’t enough at all. They want more potent “income” and, very often, the most potent “income” can give the Negative Fuel – humiliation, punishment, and…sadism.

    Narcissist is a “Big Child” and, as every normal Small Child, he demands your whole attention and service. Try to say to your 5-year old child “I won’t buy you that icecream” and you’ll get a Narcissistic tantrum immediately – tears, yelling, accusations, begging, etc. Big Narcissist will give you the same, but on more serious level. But, anyway, the Narcissist’s demands (even if they seem so eccentric) are simple and easy satisfied. Treat him as a lovable small child (give a lot of Positive Fuel) and he’ll be calm. Narcissist isn’t cruel in his core at all. Like you said, his “sadism” is a by product.

    Sociopath is a “Hater”. “When I was born, I immediately understood that I hate this treacherous and hostile world”. “I expect nothing good from this world and people”. “I love no one. I trust no one”. But… “I want to be loved, appreciated, recognized” at the same time. Sociopath’s internal wounds are more profound and require more potent “treatment”, then Narcissist’s. And that means the usage of more sophisticated manipulations, more sophisticated Fuel extracting tactics. Sociopaths start to operate not only with Positive Fuel, but with Negative Fuel on constant base. And in that case, we can see some sadistic streaks in their behaviour, but they don’t reach the stage of “full blossom”.

    Psychopath is a “Hater” too, but his internal wounds are extremely profound. For sake of survival, they need an enormous level of Fuel. And the Negative Fuel, as the most potent type of Fuel, becomes their main “treatment”. They rob, punish, rape, torture and kill. Their sadistic streaks are very distinctive and, very often, they manifest themselfes in early childhood (zoosadism, for example). I guess, that very good examples of high function Psychopaths are Ted Bundy and Andrei Chikatilo. Nothing could “fuel” them enough aside of cruel murder. They got what they needed while torturing and killing their victims – Superiority, Entitlement, Possesion, Owning, Control.

    So, level of demand, quality and quantity of required Fuel could be a critical point in estimation and classification of “narcissistic” pathology. And presence and intensity of Sadistic streaks could serve as indirect indicator of that level.

    What do you think about it, Tudor? Is this “theory” viable?

    (In case you are curious, I’m not related to Psychiatry and Psychology and I don’t have any personal “profit” interest in it. Just my own pure desire to learn something new). Lol.

  2. Hello, HG. There is one thing that I have been trying to understand for a long time. You often say that you feel no pleasure, you feel power. But feeling powerful generates the feeling of pleasure. Inevitably so. How can you separate these two?

  3. I’ve just recently seen a sadistic side to my narc. A woman that he was seeing (I had no idea) cheated on him. She is being punished severely. He literally wants to destroy her life. He is not physically violent but he goes to great lengths to ruin any hopes of her having future relationships. His tactics are very calculated and he does it in a way that he can not be blamed.

    It’s as if he can’t control himself. He has to come out on top and every punishment he dishes out isn’t good enough. It’s mind boggling.

  4. Losing your existential-self components to abuse, is a pretty serious sacrifice. The Power of abuse, is basically poverty-consciousness, it reduces existence to biological life and/or a zero-sum game. If you’re attacking the subjectivity of others, maybe you’re repressing fears about your own vulnerability plus rage and self-loathing because you couldn’t protect your child-self from your abusers “parents”. I knew as a kid i had to reject my parents to survive, i guess i was lucky to have that capacity.

  5. It’s not easy to become divine. Perhaps, if we’re using Buddhism as a reference, being evil (‘banal’) towards others, clears them of their karmic debt and allows them to be tested so they can evolve – you’d take on all that debt into yourself and suffer the consequences. In that case, thanks for your sacrifice!

  6. HG-Do you think you are reenacting your childhood experiences through role reversal? Destroying the innocent that love and depend on you, as your mother did to you? Create only to systematically destroy.

  7. Oooh, just looked up into the sky and there’s a big HG, the H made by crossing vapor trails and the G a swirling cloud. Are you God?

  8. HG – If you and your kind don’t experience joy or pleasure, what do you actually get from the fuel that we provide? Can you explain what it feels like on an emotional or physical level?

  9. Dear HG

    1.Did you ever seen the Sadistic Empath?
    Maybe it happens during Super Nova mode?

    2.Where can I find the 3rd party of your trilogy?

      1. Salome. I am an INFJ Empath. It has always been instinctual for me to help and protect others. Sounds heroic, but it’s more than likely selfish. I physically feel the emotions of others. Two years ago I discovered when close enough to someone, their physical pain becomes mine as well. His survival became my survival. For obvious reasons it’s not something I share openly. He doesn’t even know. After enduring such things quietly on his behalf, I was devalued and discarded when he became well. The many kindnesses once appreciated became mocked. It was done rather brilliantly. While being the loyal partner unaware, seeds were being planted against me and watered to grow. The person who knew me best painted me a monster. It blindsided me, it broke me.
        I won’t bore you with further details, but will answer your question. Yes, empaths have an innate ability to become sadistic. Usually indirectly and mostly on the behalf of others. We tend to look to others to protect us when vulnerable and weakened as we protect others when we are strong.
        We’re fixers. It’s about balance and justice.

      2. Jdhers,

        That is so interesting because I’m an ENFJ and one of my best friends is an INFJ AND what’s weird is my first psychopath (yes he was diagnosed) took the Myers Briggs and came up as an INFJ.

  10. This is an interesting one ive thought about the last few days. Ive seen a sadistic streak in my narc. Ive seen him happy at my unhappiness and to me thats sadistic and stems from envy and jealousy. Enjoying negative fuel seems sadistic to me but i do get that negative fuel is also a form of validation that the narcissist matters enough to make that person upset. When a narcissist enjoys punishing and reliving events in their mind that to me is sadistic. Just like a serial killer collects trophy items or records torturing a victim is sadistic so too is the narcissist who doles out the same punishments bc it gives him a sense of pleasure and satisfaction at the results. They take pride in what theyve done and enjoy watching the pain the recipient feels that to me is sadistic. Where sadism comes from and why some enjoy it i have no clue other than it takes away from pain theyve felt and they enjoy seeing someone experience it too. I think theres a fine line between a narc who is solely trying to gain fuel for validation and wanting to matter vs that of a narc that enjoys seeing someone suffer as a result of negative fuel. I think to some extent all narcs have a touch of sadism bc misery loves company.

  11. Thank you for all of your insight and explaining from the Narcissist side of things. I was in a relationship for 2 years ,long distance, I made many trips to visit him and feel in love with how different he was. Until I started seeing through little bits of his bullshit., but I am an empath and always tried to see the good. I moved him into my home 3 weeks ago. It only took 1 week for me to discover all of his dirty little secrets of his other online and face book affairs, when I confronted him he became violent. He now sits in jail and I have an EPO against him. I knew he was Bi Polar and has mental issues I did not however know that he was a true Narcissist until today and all the signs are there. My bruises and black eye will heal, my heart on the other hand will not. Now I must worry about what he will do when he is released. Thank you for the lessons.

      1. Hi HG!
        Would a good example of your sadistic side be doling out negative treatment towards Andrea long after you were established with Kim and then still continuing even when Kim was in devalue?
        Do you ever snap and show a sadistic side during the golden period?
        Has anything helped to curb this side of you by seeing the doctors (since it sounds like it’s reserved mainly for revenge or punishment)?

      2. That is more malicious than sadistic.
        Not towards the subject of the golden period no.
        No.

      3. Hg would you consider your desire to film during an upsetting moment like a discard to be sadistic? Also your albums and vault? Im still trying to understand sadism. Ive sensed it with my narc on occasions and thought at first i mustve imagined it but i see he is like that.

      4. I regard it as necessary but I understand that it would attract the label of sadistic.

  12. “If the sadism occurs post escape or discard, this is done to punish you”

    yes. also (pathological) sadism is about power, not erotic desire.

  13. Great HG! New primary source and he still smeared me and continues to this day to do so! I just want him to leave me alone!! I still will not ever let him know that I know what he is saying or doing! No contact with him and that’s the way I like it! I will not let him draw another drop of my sweet precious fuel ever! Thank you! With out the knowledge you have given me I would of contacted him and called him out on all of his lies! Your the best HG!! Xxx

  14. Maybe he was an upper mid-range because he certainly knew he was hurting me and he enjoyed it. Sometimes, as he was walking out of my bedroom, he would strut. So proud of himself. I pointed this out once and he said he didn’t know what I was talking about. I also have a question for you, HG. Often, after sex, he would ask if I had had an orgasm and I would say yes. He would reply “good girl”. I asked him why that made me feel happy and he started a lengthy answer that I didn’t pay attention to because I was stunned that he HAD an answer. It was one of those questions you don’t expect an answer to. Can YOU tell me why?

  15. I sensed from a Narc I once knew that a huge source of fuel for him was the denigration of his supply. Granted, this was not done to me personally, but I could say with certainty that her desperation to seek his approval, her shame and embarrassment at watching her self-respect being corroded away (especially during sexual acts) and knowing that she knows he loathes her and is still doing all of this, was immensely gratifying for him.

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