The Narcissistic Truths – No. 77


114 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 77

  1. Star says:

    Awww beautiful picture Windstorm:)❤️❤️❤️❤️

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Thanks, Star!

  2. MLA - Clarece says:

    Hi Windstorm2! Yes Lady Gaga’s “Million Reasons” profoundly resonates.
    But then again, so does Pat Benatar’s “Hit Me With Your Best Shot”, “Heartbreaker” and “Fire and Ice” which I happened to listen to yesterday while in a throwback classic rock kind of mood. lol

    1. Mary says:

      Clarece and Windstorm,

      Love “Million Reasons” and listened to it every day the couple of weeks before going NC. “Perfect Illusion” is another one of Gaga’s. It’s about fame I think, but it fits being addicted to a narc. Will go play some Pat B on the drive home. Hugs!!! Girl Power

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Perfect Illusion is a great Narc song! I posted the lyrics on Facebook last fall and he hoovered me as he took offense to it! It must have “wounded” him. Or maybe he wanted to stir the fuel pot or some shit. Anyway, great song! I own all of Lady Gaga’s albums. She is awesome!

  3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    There comes a point when you don’t even feel the need to replay incidents repeatedly in your head -trying to decipher the hidden meanings behind everything. Sometimes i feel like you have to over focus on something and talk about it until you don’t want to talk about it anymore and it exhausts you. I’ve also come to find It just doesn’t even matter. I never mattered and he doesn’t matter. It’s a sad and infuriating reality but I can’t change what happened all I can do is move forward. All I have is the present and the future.

    Of course I miss being infatuated and in love with someone but that’s where it all ends. I guess I have to just take what I can from the shitty experience. The take away was that I learned more about myself, not to put up with bullshit, follow my intuition, and pull the fuck out of a shitty investment wayyyyyyy faster.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Dr Q
      I agree about needing to over focus till you just wear it all out. That’s what I had to do. Friends and family want you to just get over it and move on, but I believe that leaves a lot of issues unreconciled and these ideas can come back to haunt you later.

      Maybe we do need infatuation and love. I missed out on the romantic/positive sexual aspects of that My only partner has been my cerebral narc exhusband, so I can’t even really imagine what it would be like.

      My best solution is to seek out joy by loving everything around me – dogs, cats, nature, artwork, strangers, children, whatever. I’ve found that if I broadcast love out at the world around me, it will be returned in some very rewarding and unusual ways (not romantically though, because I know that would be a narc! I’ve already got enough of them! 😝)

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        The sexual romantic aspects would send you to the brink of insanity…

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Ha, ha Clarece! Probably good thing I missed out on them then since I think I’ve always lived on the brink of insanity! I always wondered what it was like once you crossed over the edge – maybe that would have done it. I can only speculate.

          It does seem like a mixed blessing, though, out here looking in. The “mind blowing sex” I read about here that people had with narcs often seems to have caused the most damage by warping their thinking and keeping them tied to the narc.

          The whole golden period thing that people so want again – that seems like the root of the problem for many. Maybe I’m lucky I never had any of that, that our relationship was much more “contractual.” I wonder what it’s like for the normals? Maybe more in the middle of the two extremes?

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Well the golden period also unfortunately provides a benchmark for the successors which seems difficult to match. Technique and ability is real even if everything else is an illusion.

      2. Mary says:


        This is something I worry about if I am single again and start dating. No one is EVER going to kiss me like my online narc did. His presence was electric, and he kissed me like no one ever has. How is anyone healthy going to compare to that? Their lack of intensity may come across as disinterest.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          I don’t know how to answer that for you Mary. Plus, if I remember correctly, was it only kissing when you finally met up (first base)? There was no home run in the ballpark that day? lol Think about how hard that would be to qualify someone else to.
          I had tried to date a couple of other men during off periods or extended silent treatments. They ended up just being distractions, and my mind was elsewhere. Nothing is emptier to me than sex with no attachment.
          I had to alter my expectations. I don’t believe I’ll meet someone again who will have that affect on me. Therefore I have no expectation and it’s nothing worth pursuing.

      3. Mary says:


        I hope that for both of us, the need to qualify or compare future partners to our narcs goes away. Maybe it’s something that does happen with time. Also, did you say under another topic you are at 3 weeks no contact? Congrats!!! You deserve so much more than JN.

        When meeting my narc, there was def no home run. lol I go back and forth between being grateful we didn’t and wishing we had. It still bugs me I was so attached to him and we didn’t even hook up. But we shared online fantasies and some emotional connection (at least it felt that way) for slightly over a year.

        The day of our meeting, we only had half an hour. He was on his way home from a work event, and I was on my lunch break. Lol. We didn’t get much past first base, bit he had his hands in my hair when he kissed me. I was gone! Lol A little more happened too. Don’t read further if graphic stuff bugs you…. He unzipped and told me to touch him and put his fluids in his mouth. When I did, he kissed me. That felt very intimate!

        The day I stopped talking to him, he was talking about meeting again and more happening. I don’t know if he planned to meet, or just wanted ego gratification of me agreeing to meet. But he had said so much crap during our fantasies to blur the lines and I didn’t know if I was even safe to be alone in a hotel with him. He didn’t force things in the car that day, but during our fantasies involving force (which I liked)… he would say “if we meet again, you’re agreeing to this” or “if you meet me again it’s because you want to be violated.” Him saying it that way, knowing my history of actually being assaulted before, felt like a mindfuck.

        He doesn’t seem like he would be violent, he wasn’t forceful in the car about anything, but who knows. But it wouldn’t shock me if, for example, he got me to feel safe enough to be restrained (a fantasy I shared with him), and maybe some other guy or guys or even a woman showed up to have a turn, and I wouldn’t be able to leave. His fantasy was to watch me with others so who knows! He always said I could change my mind and no force would be used. But narcs say a lot of shit!!!

        The place I drink with my friends is right next to the hotel where we met that day. Damn ever presence!!! But I met them that day and he was pursuing or hoovering all day after a few weeks of being distant. I had just started reading this blog and knew it was more about fuel than about a connection. Later that night, we were to talk about meeting again. Instead just never said another word to him.

        You said in a comment elsewhere that I lied to myself that it was a twisted, erotic type of love. And it did feel that way! He always said he wouldn’t trust the darker fantasies with just anyone. I still have moments of feeling like I was too harsh to cut him off without a word.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Hi Mary! I think you are on a better path, quicker than me because you both didn’t hit a “homerun”. Had that happened, then imagine two years of both physical contact and the constant sexting and skyping when you can’t see each other, you can imagine why it takes even longer to get to the point of NC and making it stick.
          I am only speculating here, but I don’t think your Narc would have put you in danger. That was part of the thrill with the fantasy talk through sexting. JN was always in perfect form and never inappropriately rough or he never even asked about any of the deviant things he did through texting and fantasy talk that way. He was in fact very eager to please and that is why I would always think the sexting or skyping was foreplay leading up to our next visit with each other. It took me forever to realize he looked at those as stand alone hookups and was future faking. So that made it so much more difficult to not believe that in person we didn’t really have a true connection or bond. Because it was as real as it could possibly get on my side.

      4. Mary says:


        Yes, I think it would be harder to get over my narc if there had been a homerun. Especially if there had been more than one occasion. With us both married and him being two hours away, and only traveling this way for work a couple of times yearly, it would be hard to meet more than that. I think I still could have made it work, if he hadn’t pulled the mind-fucks. And if I thought he was being honest when he said, “I am sexting others, but you’re the only person I’m considering fucking for real. I don’t have this connection with anyone else.” I still wonder if he *was* truthful and I was wrong to not believe him.

        I can only imagine how much harder it is for you to break away after having that physical contact as well. It really pisses me off that JN was future faking you. If he had been open with you that the online stuff was as far as he wanted it to go for the most part, it would have been easier for you not to feel hopeful for that in-person closeness. He knew you needed to hear that it was real for him though, to keep you hooked, and he fed it to you.

        “Because it was as real as it could possibly get on my side.” I feel your pain in this statement. It really hurts to think we could be so real and open with someone who turned out to be so full of shit.

        How do you feel now that it’s been almost a month of NC?

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Hi Mary! So far knock on wood, this time with me initiating the no contact and JN is very aware I have him blocked, I’ve done well with even having several days where I realize I haven’t thought about him at all. That has never happened before. But last night I did have a dream about him. So that was unsettling. I watched this new show on Bravo, called “A Night With My Ex”, where a couple broken up gets 24 hours in a condo to get closure, make up, fight some more, etc. I think that sparked the dream.
          I can only imagine the line of exes including secondary sources and DLS’s who would line up to have it out with HG. Lol It could fill a whole season.
          As far as JN, he knew exactly what I wanted most after my divorce which was a second chance with someone and to try for one more baby to give my daughter a sibling. He knew I had a miscarriage before her and had gone thru 5 years of infertility. Part of his future faking included telling me how much he wanted his baby in me (or “having a piece of him inside me for 9 months”). This was repeatedly. You start to believe it when you hear it so much. Early on with him, I had a scare that required getting the Plan B pill. Responsible, yes. But surreal for someone who had to work so hard to get pregnant rather than prevent one. He did not know about that until a year later when I went into therapy and I finally told him thinking it would open more communication between us. HA! That was a huge manipulation tool for him to use and promise visits that never happened.
          The last time I was with him at a hotel (2 yrs ago), when he got ready to leave, he grabbed me from behind and rubbed my stomach, saying “how do you like knowing I put my baby in you? “.
          It wasn’t true. He was messing around. But so hurtful.
          No wonder I was such a broken hot mess when I stumbled on to here.
          Those memories make it very easy to just stay away right now.
          He took those precious years that I had with a clock ticking away.
          If I were to get pregnant now, at 45, already being high risk, it will have to the 2nd coming of Christ.

          1. Yolo says:


            Anything is possible through Christ. If you want another kid, love, I believe all things are possible. If you just believe and release the past. When we hold on to all the should’ve, could’ve, it only blocks our future possibilities. We can’t move forward if our eyes are focused on the rear view mirror. I don’t have the capacity or energy to give love to anyone outside of my immediate love ones.

            It’s sad to read your statement because of my abortions. I have one son, and I can’t undo my past but I admire your desire or past desires to have another kid. I stayed with a person I despised and would never have kids with and I totally regret it now.

            Despite of our experiences there are some nice guys out there. Use the knowledge you’ve obtained here and go for it😊 let your prospect know what you are looking for, watch the reactions and respond accordingly. Sorry, I just felt the need to respond. Open your heart, and let go the past. There may not be as as many years going forward as the past but embrace each as it is the last. Good Luck, BTW, I totally feel you with that soul mate thing. Secret (I tattooed LOVE IS STRONGER THAN PRIDE) lower back. Because I believe it was my pride that would not allow me to love him unconditionally. I noticed you watched that reality show.😊I don’t know if you watched How Stella Got Her Groove Back..reminds me of your story. Minus, some.of the theatrics.

          2. MLA - Clarece says:

            Awww, Yolo, thank you for your kind words. I’m in a good place with my daughter. Her dad remarried quickly and had 2 babies back to back with his new wife. They are 2 and 1 now. My daughter has told me she loves coming home to a peaceful house and having me all to herself (as much as she loves her siblings). Her becoming a preteen, she is getting to those years she’ll need me emotionally more than ever. So it’s meant to be the way it is. Maybe someday I’ll meet someone I can foster a child with? Who knows.
            Oh that gem of a movie, “Stella Got Her Groove Back”. I have seen that a few times. Lol
            Yeah, I did get my groove back with JN for awhile, now it’s dormant again. Lol
            My “How I met JN Story” for HG’s poll last week that many swooned over, yeah, the above is some of the ugliness it evolved into. It’s why I isolate the event of meeting him from everything else because I don’t even know how it could be the same person.

          3. Yolo says:

            Yes. My son definitely didn’t want any siblings especially during teen years. He was of my little mini puncher. Stella, real life story didn’t have fairytale ending either he turned out to be gay. I don’t know how she missed that, love makes us blind. I watched his interview in hindsight I know he’s a narc. So self centered, con man, and took no accountability.

            I still get chills when I think about the shower scene towards the end😊😊

            I think I will watch that part tonight.

            Peace and Blessings

      5. Narc affair says:

        Clarece…sorry to hear about your experience with your ex. Just so you know a friend of mine had her second baby at age 47 and her hubby was mid 50s. Her sons healthy and she breastfed as well. Its possible but i do know what youre saying. Youre daughter must be so special and what a gift ❤

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Thank you NA! I was ecstatic when I heard Janet Jackson had a baby at 50. My 3 close girlfriends look at me like I’m insane. One became a grandmother this year, one had a hysterectomy, and the third is just plain done because her kids are grown but her stepchild is about to move in full time. Then there’s me over here saying, hey maybe I will push one more out… Lol

      6. Mary says:

        Hi Clarece,

        I apologize for just now replying, but just saw your other message. So glad to hear you have some days of not thinking about JN at all. It’s really encouraging to have those realizations! The dream you had does sound unsettling, and I hope it hasn’t repeated. Like you said, the show you watched could have triggered it. Hopefully your nights have been more peaceful since.

        Reading about how JN treated you and future faked and used your wanting another child as part of it… it just pisses me the fuck off at him even more! He was not only wasting your time, but he was cruel and heartless and got off on knowing he was doing it! And it’s just like a narc to use something difficult you tell him, to save it up and then use it when it can have maximum impact.

        I know there is more discussion about being able to have a child past a certain age, so won’t go on much, but the wife of one of my bosses had twins at 41. They had a child earlier, like in their late 20’s, but when she started trying for another at 40, she had to take fertility drugs because of some issue. The resulting pregnancy led to a miscarriage, and then a few months later, she ended up carrying twins and they are both very healthy and almost teenagers.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Hi Mary! It’s just been several years of coping with all kinds of grief clustered together over different themes in my life and he initially was the distraction then turned into the biggest source of grief.
          Today is a day where I truly hate him and don’t care what that makes me.
          Yours was incredibly manipulative too and I see you cutting him slack. Which I’m guilty of too. They can do or ask 20 shitty, degrading things, but maybe one day you were feeling down and they pay a half compliment or they’re just not as shitty and all 20 acts above get absolved.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            That is so how we think isnt it? Reminds me of Lady Gaga’s Million Reasons.

      7. Mary says:

        I completely understand needing a distraction and having it escalate from an escape into immense pain. Hugs. And hating him doesn’t make you anything but human. The anger at them can be it’s own type of fuel at times, pushing us forward without them. It means you know you have value beyond the way he treated you!

        You’re right, I do cut my narc slack. I constantly made (and sometimes still make) excuses for when he would be cruel, because there was no proof it was deliberate on his part. This happened because he said something kind and sensitive, or he acted like he was deeply hurt and offended by my not trusting him. He acted vulnerable at moments, and I will never have concrete proof that he wasn’t. The little moments of kindness felt major, and did make me forget about the degrading shit. It made the degrading comments seem so far away, like they didn’t apply to him. He’d be nice just long enough for me to drop my guard, and then bam, twist everything around and send my heart plummeting on the roller coaster again.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          I tend to cut mine a lot of slack, too. It’s not usually because he did any kind, thoughtful things, but more because it’s just his nature. It seems that the lions share of unkind, inconsiderate things he does are truly thoughtless. They seem unconsciously done. They are just a consequence of his belief that rules don’t apply to him and only what he wants matters. It’s not something I take personally at all.

          I guess as I think about it, I don’t hold him to regular behavior like I would other people. It’s more like when you keep animals. If you live with dogs, you have to expect them to act like dogs. Cats will act like cats. Narcs will act like narcs. As long as its not too disruptive, I just accept it and don’t let it bother me. Just part of the price to pay for keeping animals.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Hi Windstorm2! Thank you for your message. I was pondering it for a few days. You really have a gift for co-existing side by side with Narcs with acceptance and not taking things too personally. You’re correct that they operate how they do instinctively, yet subconsciously and no regard to consideration.
            It reminded me of a few times in the first two years, when I had no clue what I was dealing with except for a bratty millennial, JN would ask me not to take things so personal. Or once he said he processes time different than other people. Other friends would complain to him for dropping off, say for 3 weeks, and he didn’t notice the time span passed. I know he had conflict with other people. At the time it seemed like he was seeking permission to treat me like a doormat. Not acceptance for who he is.
            @Mary, thank you also for your kind words.

          2. windstorm2 says:

            Hey Clarece!
            Always enjoy hearing from you! I’m one of those quiet people who sit in the background and think a lot. And I’ve had a lot of time to sit and think! I have learned to not take things too personally. One of my exhusband’s sayings is “remember, it’s not about you.” Sounds narc-like, but it’s actually good advice! I think it’s natural to look at everything as if it’s directed at ourselves. In reality, while other people’s actions often affect us, we are probably not the cause and they may not be aware of our feelings at all.

            And that’s true for the narcs, too. While they are often doing deliberately mean or cruel things, more often they’re just moving thru life like a force of nature – their minds focused on some other fuel source. It’s up to us to draw the lines on how much of their behavior we’re willing to tolerate.

            And there’s often a humorous aspect to what they do if you think about it. My exhusband’s been housesitting for me while I’m in Kansas. He told me yesterday that I needed to come home soon to go to the store. He’s eaten almost everything I had that was edible. Now how can that not make you laugh! A grown, highly educated, professional man sitting hungry wanting his exwife to drive 700 miles to buy food for him? Cracks me up!!

            Hope you’re weekend is going well!

  4. Mary says:

    Part 2 of the post to Gabbanzobean….

    Yes, the irony of your narc’s comment about pandering for amusement! My narc used to say some things like this when exactly the opposite was true. He was constantly demanding that I sext others, but then telling me to be careful of the bullshit on Kik, don’t trust anyone who does x, y or z. When I would remind him he did those very things, he would say “don’t say that, it minimizes what we have.” And that fucked with my head, because it made me feel like he DID care. .

    And he wasn’t a cerebral, but like your guy, he used to tell me he was the nicest guy I would ever meet. On one of the social media, I think his nickname was even some version of “Nice Guy” and he is nice in that he’s charming and easy to let down your guard with. And when I was nervous about meeting in person, he said, “Don’t you know my character by now? I am the least harmful person to you.” He didn’t harm me physically, but he was NOT harmless, yet his words conveyed the total opposite.

    And he said about some guys online, “it’s like they collect hearts.” And it was a very odd and specific thing to say. I almost wondered if a past lover had told him it’s like HE collects hearts. He was excellent at remembering everything about me, phrases and insecurities and then kind of echoing them back during devaluation in a twisted way.

    Sometimes I wonder if they realize the irony when they are saying this stuff, because it seems like more than just a guy lying. It’s almost like they know we will play their words back in our minds and they want us to remember “He said he’s a nice guy” or “he said he wasn’t using me for amusement” so we will doubt ourselves when all of their actions state otherwise.

    1. Mona says:

      Mary, we shall doubt ourselves. Brainwashing, rewriting history, contradictions, all that to fulfill their will and let us not see, what they really do. Abuse.

      1. Mary says:

        Yes, Mona, exactly! They blow smoke smoke to cloud our vision.

  5. Mona says:

    Gabbanzobean, they nearly always do what we fear most. If they smell a weak point, they point on it. It is very hard to learn to close the wounds again, they cut in our souls. It took me a long time to realise all his devilish behaviour and count one and one together. Now everything makes sense. If your narc really makes jokes about you, it is his bad character, not your personality. You are a fine person, he is not. I will say the same to you, that the ex of my narc told me: He is ill and has an ugly soul. It needs time to realise and accept that. But it has nothing to do with you, the reasons for his behaviour towards you lay far away in the past. And we are not able to change their past, their presence and their future. Love does not change them. Gabbie, your love will die, each day a little bit more and some day it is only a pale memory.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Wise words, Mona

    2. gabbanzobean says:

      Thank you for your insightful response. I’m bookmarking this to reread it when I start to doubt if I’ll ever move on.

  6. Mary says:

    I totally get that, the wanting to see what their relationship is like and how he treats her in person. I would want to know also, and to know what she’s like. There is some natural curiosity of that in any affair dynamic, but especially with a narc because we honestly have no clue what their relationship is like, since we only have what the narc tells us to go on… and we know how reliable that is.

    Clarece is right that if you were there with him, his mind would be elsewhere. And Mona is right on too about punishing his wife. My narc used to say “when I f* my wife, I’m not satisfied because who I really want isn’t in my bed” (referring to me). At the time, I felt a little bad for her, but it also is very flattering to think “wow, he still wants and desires me even though they JUST had sex.” At some point though, around the last time we sexted, he wanted me to verbally say mean shit to his wife while making me look at his wedding pic. He wanted me to say mean things about my hub during climax that time. He said he just liked it because it was forbidden and naughty, and since it wasn’t happening in real life, I appeased him. They don’t know it was said, and it wasn’t meant by me, but it was degrading to myself that letting him coax me into saying that crap. It sickens me that I ever thought maybe it would somehow be okay to go there with him.

    It is exactly like Mona said to in that it’s about hatred toward women. These are sadistic and twisted individuals.

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      My narc used to lament over the fact that it took him so long to climax with his wife. “It’s because of my guilt. But with you I can’t hold it back…” ummm okay so you’re not guilty F-ing me but F-ing her and you are. I had a consult about this with HG who said that he said all of this to make me feel sorry for him via fuel. Makes sense.

      It’s always narc Opposite Day.

  7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


    Don’t mind my ADHD moment but I am on the phone with my sociopath friend and we are talking about his eyes.

    He says “unless I’m conveying emotion with my eyes I have a dead stare because my soul is dead – life has beaten it out of me.”

    “I have a dead stare. I am dead”

    Would you say you can control the stare? My friend says he can’t seem to control it. He says he can convey feelings with his eyes but he can’t do it ALL THE TIME like doing regular things – he can’t “leave the lights on – when I’m talkin to someone I can – lately people catch me staring into the nothingness and they get creeped out.”

  8. Mona says:

    Gabbanzobean, he abuses you to punish his wife. He punishes her, because he has to spend the anniversary day with her. He does not like that. So secretly he contacts you and has a nice feeling to “betray” his wife. He triangulates you with her or vice versa. It is not about her , it is not about you, it is about his hate towards females. Please wake up. A man who does that to his own wife is not worth a penny. She is probably a very nice woman like you are. He only smeared her. Why do you hope, that he devalues her? ( I see some hope of that in your comment) You really know what he is. He is a hateful man without conscience, no feeling of responsibility and no one to rely on. He will never give you what you really want and need for a long time. Only an illusion. You deserve a better man.

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      It’s not that I want him to devalue her. I just wish I could see first hand how he treats her (fly on the wall so to say)….so I can wake myself up. My comment wasn’t meant to insult or disrespect her. I don’t even know her but I’m sure she’s likely a doormat to him. She knows of some of his cheating and takes him back.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Without even having to be there, sadly, she’s his sloppy seconds (thirds, and fourths) time and time again. Think of it that way. That could be you adoringly looking at him and his mind is always elsewhere..

      2. Mona says:

        Gabbanzobean, I understand your need to have some evidence that he really is a narcissist. Maybe his wife is a doormat. Maybe he lied so tricky, that she believed all his nonsense. The former relationship of my narc lasted about 20 years, until someone (one of his lieutenants) told her the whole truth about him. His whole family gaslighted her, so she could not see the truth. All lied. Then she left him from one minute to the other. I met her, he was so stupid to tell me where she works. The first two sentences she said to me : “Did he talk bad about me again?” and “Take it easy./ Don`t worry. He is ill.” She has never been a doormat, but he did so, as if she were. He did the same with me. His family lied again, his friends shut their mouths and all wondered why I stayed with him, although there were other women. I indeed did not know. I realised it too late. I am not a person, who controls someone else. So I did not take a look at his handy nor observed him. I should have done that. And – most important – I was not informed about this disorder!
        Maybe your narc just talks to his wife: “There is a girl, I told you about her. She is so foolish, she is so in love with me. I do not know why. I never gave her a reason to do that.” That is the way how they behave.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Mona, your last sentence!!!! Wow. It gave me chills because I used to imagine him making jokes to others of how in love with him I was (and sadly still am). One time when I was upset from one of those “golden wedge silent treatments” I said “I bet you laugh at me, about my feelings for you…”

          His reply (sweet as pie) “My darling girl that is silly. You are NOT an oddity that I pander to for amusement!”

          Oh the irony!

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        Heard this song and made me think of you lol!!

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          I’m honored lol. Thank you. I could fill multiple soundtracks with songs about my relationship with him.

      4. NarcAngel says:


        Its natural to wonder, but good or bad, his treatment of her is of no consequence to you. Your only concern should be how he treats you and how you feel about it. Shift your focus.

  9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    I personally find it more helpful to gain information from an insightful (I know this is rare) and intelligent narcissist, psychopath, or a hybrid narcissistic psychopath.

    What is that line that Madonna said in one of her songs off erotica…??
    I think it was something like: “Only the one that hurts you can make you feel better. Only the one that inflicts the pain can take it away.”

    This is only my personal perspective as it relates to my healing process.

    1. RecoveringNarcoholic says:

      I agree, Dr. H. All the utubers seem to say pretty much the same things. HG offers a different perspective, plus a level of detail about the inner workings of a narc’s mind that I haven’t seen anywhere else.

  10. gabbanzobean says:

    Soooo. Ummmm. I was hoovered over the weekend. After 4 months. I didn’t see it coming. And I didn’t expect it. It was the mere liking of one of my photos. That’s it. But nonetheless a Hoover. And I didn’t think it would happen again. HG, you were right! They always Hoover. And the kicker? It was his wedding anniversary with his wife. I was the DLS. And he hoovered me on his wedding anniversary. I really wish I was making this up, but I’m not.

    1. MLA - Clarece says:

      It is always completely unexpected and you’re caught off guard. I take it though you never reached out for his birthday this month (I think it was mid-month) so good for you!! That may have been what got him sniffing around you this past weekend. Trying to get you to remember and text him about that. He probably only liked a picture on social media because he doesn’t want to risk texting you and you not responding back. You’re getting some power back!!

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        I was tempted to ruin his birthday the way he ruined mine but I took the high road. But I’ll be honest and say that that Instagram like felt like a kick in my gut taking my breath away. It’s a shame I wasn’t worthy of a follow up text though. Good grief I must sound ridiculous. I still can’t bring myself to block him from seeing my posts on Instagram. My immature response to his aforementioned picture liking was my meme posting of “you don’t miss or care about me. I should remember that. I should fucking remember that”. With my caption of “I really ought to remember these things”.

        Yes teenager ish of me but hey if he still trolls….lol.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        There was no shame in my game lol. One year I ruined his birthday – I waited for it lol. He deserved it. All the other years he ruined it himself so I didn’t need to do a thing.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Last year on his birthday he got a ton of naughty media from me. Maybe he kept it, maybe not. Maybe he sniffed around because he hoped for it again? Who knows. LOL.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        If you don’t block him then just don’t put that much information out there. Any information you put out there should be positive and you should look happy – not like you are trying too hard happy – you know what I mean?

    2. Mary says:


      No, there’s no way we could make up this shit!

      I’m going to guess he chose to on his anniversary because 1) he’s twisted and nothing is off limits, not even his wedding anniversary, and 2) he hopes it will lead you to think “he must really care if he’s thinking about me even while celebrating with his wife.”

      It’s awesome that you are still no contact!

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Yeah that’s exactly what I thought. Holy crap he’s messaging me on his anniversary. Why?!!?! And here I was overthinking that too….

    3. Peaceful says:

      Dear one, aren’t you reading HG’s posts? You were used and abused. You’re only craving your oxytocin fix. Recognize and accept your initial wounding, love yourself and heal yourself. You’re worth it! You ARE enough! Now go block that asshole on all fronts and live your most successful, happiest life! 🙂

      Fall in love with someone like this guy! Watch this 🙂

      1. abrokenwing says:

        Ridiculous haircut.

      2. Yolo says:

        H.G thanks for allowing her to share. I found it be informative.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        Richard Grannon……. not my type lol.

      4. abrokenwing says:


        I listen to some of his videos as well as others before I found Mr Tudor.

        I think we all know there are other sources of information about narcissism available on YT and different webs and so we all have a choice , but when I come to it’s because I am interested of what HG Tudor has got to say in this subject and because I value his insight and regard him as the best source of information.
        Therefore, to me sharing somebody else’s work on his blog (regardless of one’s good intentions) is a bit inappropriate and disrespectful. Sorry to say but that’s my opinion.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you ABW.

        2. NarcAngel says:


          Evidence also that HG allows great lattitude in the exchange of information, save that which could cause harm to someone, breach security or interfere with the purpose and operation of the blog. I believe this is because he trusts his readers are intelligent enough to be exposed to other sources and remain loyal because his work is unrivaled.

      5. abrokenwing says:


        Yes, this could be the reason why Mr Tudor allowed it.
        But also, not allowing this video would mean that it bothers him, that it matters.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I do not mind occasional references to say ‘healing’ links as I am not a healer. I tolerate mention of those who operate in a similar field to me, but I am not here to be a platform for their work which is below mine.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Yes. I just meant that he has been accused of not posting peoples comments on occasion (which is untrue as they are just in moderation). I just thought it showed that if he allowed this, that it is unlikely a comment would be viewed as any threat.

          In other news: How are your wings of late? Are you feeling stronger?

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            I agree. His confidence in the superiority of his writings prevents any petty displays of insecurity. That’s always one of my favorite characteristics of intelligent narcissists (and only of the intelligent ones!) -that supreme confidence.

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        That is understandable.

      7. Narc affair says:

        Ive not watched richard grannon but i do watch other utubers and each adds in a different way. Thats the beauty if diversity and its important to have that.
        I value and respect hg’s work and theres no competition there 👍

      8. abrokenwing says:


        I’m very well , thank you for caring!😊
        I started running again and I recognise myself when I look in the mirror so definitely on the right track! Still ‘under construction ‘ but feeling stronger every day💪. Hope you are well too! X

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Im very well thank you. Glad to hear you are working on your physical health. That is a huge part of regaining your overall strength and will help you with focus and getting back to that girl in the mirror. You got her.

      9. Yolo says:

        H.G. you are officially an empaths for allowing this video.

        Wings no fear H.G. is second to none.😊

        For the record, after I left lovefraud I’ve been pretty consistent. I am easily confused once l see value I am loyal. Too prove that i have never sought out the Sam person although I was tempted when I found out he was married from a blogger on here.

        I have watched Assoc D. However, based on what i have learned here, i think he’s a narc. 😊😊

    4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


      Oh I know you aren’t making it up. I remember having um “relations” with my first psychopath right after he got engaged and on Valentines Day. I am still confused as to how he managed to get out of the house and hang out with me on Valentines Day that year.

      I think I was recently hoovered also. It will almost be a year since my breakup and this cognitively slow individual who is friends with (looks up to my ex narc and worked underneath him) called me and contacted me. I haven’t spoken to this person in like two years. I barely talked to him when my ex and I were together. The message actually sounded like he was being coached. Either way I know that my ex had something to do with this guy calling me. My ex either directly coached him or planted the seed.

      They are honestly so pathetic. I don’t have time or patience for the game playing anymore.

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        The last time he hoovered me was when I landed on the plane for my trip to see my BFF. He knew of this trip before he told me he did not wish to speak to me anymore. And the time before that was my birthday. He claims he cannot remember what day it is but he is a liar. He remembers all just like I do. I want to think his wedding anniversary hoover was a coincidence but now I know it was not. I guess my birthday will be the next hoover. LOL.

        He was engaged and had a romp with you? Am I to assume the fiancee did not control him and prevent him from leaving the house? LOL. Mine used to claim his wife had a leash on him, and as such it was harder for him to see me. Yes they really are so pathetic.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        When he was engaged he did have a romp or two with me lol. He would only ever hang out for like an hour or so – never for extended periods of time. He always seemed as though he was in a rush.

        I remember this one time when I was with my ex maybe a year or so ago (time starts to blur at this point) I told the psychopath I couldn’t hang out and I remember texting him next to my ex and saying some pretty um….riskAy shit. The psychopath said something to me like “I thought you were with (insert name of my shithead ex here)” I said yes I am. He was like “How are you texting me?” I said “What do you mean how am I texting you? He is sitting a few feet away from me. He is totally oblivious.” The psychopath told me he got away on Valentines day that year because he said he had to work or something. If my man ever said some shit like that to me there would be a private investigator on his ass LMAO.

        As someone who has made a lot of mistakes lol…and continue to occasionally do so lol…try to avoid sending any videos of yourself and if you do make DAMN SURE you have some dick pics and blackmail on his ass. My psychopath won’t fuck with me. He knows better. I have far too much shit on him. I’m always prepared for war if need be and he knows that.

        I have never exposed him despite everything that has happened between us – which at times has gotten heated. The mind-fuckery between the both of us was on some other level shit. We were always trying to one up each other.

        He actually contributed to the downfall of one of my relationships directly which was actually a blessing. I actually protected him on a few occasions against a boyfriend at the time. The psychopath won’t get in my way and I won’t get in his. Our interaction has been going on since I w as 14 and I am now 30. We used to talk like every day as teenagers and into our early 20’s – we talk in spurts – then he disappears. The silences have gotten longer – the most that has ever gone by is about a year maybe a smidge over a year.

        The psychopath told me in Oct. he had gotten divorced. I didn’t believe him at first because he is always on the move and acts like he is someone who is trying to get back to someone. He never hangs out for like more than an hour. He would often make plans and cancel them but then again I would too. On two occasions he stood me up. I swear that will NEVER happen again. It really takes no effort to even shoot me a text and lie to me instead of standing me up.

        The last time I saw him he told me something very personal – about abuse that he repressed. He also said to me “wow I can’t believe you’re Dr. _______ now. You always said you were going to be a psychologist and you did it. ”

        I have out grown him. You will out grow yours. It’s just a dopamine rush. You will see. The thrill will be lost at some point.

        I look at him and I don’t see anybody. For as long as I remember I would look in his eyes and see nothing. I used to think maybe its anxiety or confusion or…?? Now I realize what’s ultimately behind those eyes. It’s amazing how you could know someone for years and never really ever know them.

      3. Narc affair says:

        Dr. H…i hope youre right that ill outgrow the narc im with. I do see how much things have changed over the 6 yrs but my love for him grew. Weve shared a lot in that time. Its nothing to grow upon but i thought at the very least a friendship. The way he has strung me along and shelved and then golden perioded me tells me he has no regard for me even as a friend. I know its been beaten into us thru blogs, books, vids you name it but until you experience it firsthand and see the ugly truth up front how the narc really feels about you its so hard to fully let go of the emotions you feel for them.
        As far as him ever smearing me thatll not happen bc he knows i now know his family and have oodles of pics and vids of him. I also know some things about him from a website. I dont think itd ever come down to that bc hes not like that. Hes never been vindictive that way even with his exes never once has he said a bad word about them.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          As part of my narc’s “religious nice guy facade”, I have never been smeared. I never got the fury, I never got the nastiness, the vitriol. Etc. Even my devaluation was polite as punch. I mean yes it was a total mindfuck, but it was charming and polite. I kind of feel like if it was nasty or rude it would’ve been so much better. Then maybe I’d have a clue. he really made me think like he was doing it all for us, that he cared. ( The way he pushed me aside, the huge golden wedge)

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Narc Affair,

        I completely understand where you’re coming from. I think most people miss the feeling of being infatuated and/or in love and those feelings happen to be associated with a particular person (the narc). It’s so much easier to detach from those feelings when you find someone else to be infatuated and/or in love with.

        Somewhere along the line the games become played out – it becomes boring. There is nothing left to hope for.

        This idea of hope is what many people still hold onto. When you realize there is no hope it all becomes pointless. All that was left with my ex was acceptance. I was willing to accept him as a person but unwilling to accept that I would be treated terribly for the rest of my life. Not only did I not gain from the relationship at all but I am an only child and the thought of my ex being the person I would have to rely on when my parents die terrified me. I could and would not accept that this would be the rest of my life.

        I believe that the narcissist represents something to each of us. They represent our fantasies, hopes, dreams, fears and insecurities. What the narcissist represents differs from person to person. It’s important to know your weaknesses and what it is about you that these people exploit.

        If your narc serves a purpose to you and you gain from your interaction – power to you girl lol! As long as you understand and accept who/what you at dealing with and navigate the interaction accordingly it’s all good in the hood.

        As for me, I can say that the narcissists and psychopaths I interact with serve a direct purpose. The purposes vary from person to person. I only choose to interact with extremely high functioning ones that have a ridiculous amount of insight. They let me be myself and understand a part of me that most people do not and for that I am appreciative. As long as there is reciprocity in my relationships with them I’m totally cool with it.

        I think you will outgrow yours. How long it will take is beyond me because let’s put it this way lol there are different flavors of bullshit people can put up with and to different degrees and only the individual knows when they have clocked out.

        Stay awesome – I appreciate you 😁

    5. Narc affair says:

      Hi gabbanzobean….be really careful. It probably felt great having that hoover after 4 months but itll wear off and when it does youll want that inject of familiar drug again. Its an addiction. Youve come so far. This is why no contact and blocking them is the only way. I wont even try again until i fully block bc i know myself too well and id cave in from the turmoil of not responding and losing another hoover. Its an illness. As far as it being on his marriage anniversary its devaluement two his wife and to you. Hes hoovering you with filthy devalue crumbs dont lick them up. Youre worth so much more ❤

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Ah yes devaluation crumbs. You know I always wondered what his wife has to deal with and see. I wish I was a fly on the wall. I figure he was focused on her as he wants to expand his family. But to come after me on his anniversary. Subtle devaluation of her perhaps? I wonder if he is hoovering my predecessor too.

  11. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    I often feel like I busted out of Shawshank…..

  12. Ali says:

    A gold plated cage that turns out to be rusted underneath… full amenities… except the food is rotting, when there is any, the water will make you sick, the bed is really a cold hard slab and the room with a view is a room with a view of the skeletal previous victims that still wait for the next golden period not knowing they were discarded… and a view of those that are still innocently fooled and vivacious that will soon replace you.
    so very true. Little did he know, I stole the key and freed myself never to be caged again

  13. Mona says:

    Bingo, I smeared him today very well and I only told the truth. And the person I told, is someone who knows a lot of people. The slope around his neck will get narrower a little bit more. She believed me at once.

  14. MsSevyn says:

    True. They take beautiful, confident, vibrant people and strip them down – slowly at first. So subtly. Then, the claws go deeper, so you won’t leave. They convince you they need you, yet somehow flip the scrip to make you dependent on them. It’s like catching a beautiful bird and clipping her wings so she won’t fly away. Then, the bird starves, because she needed flight to maintain her health and beauty.

    1. E. B. says:

      I like your description, MsSevyn. They are dependent on us but they make us believe we are dependent on them.

  15. abrokenwing says:

    Serving a life sentence.

    I hope ‘no contact ‘ will grant me early release for good behaviour.

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      PRISON BREAK lol….

      we will all help you break out lmao!!

      1. abrokenwing says:

        That’s sweet! 🤗

        I’m committed to leave the prison and stay away from trouble.
        Not like The Daltons in Lucky Luke !😉
        (not sure if you are familiar)

  16. Yolo says:

    I don’t get the correlation. The jailer is the babysitter with no authority. Maybe,,this is meant in a mental sense. We self imprisoned, the gates are opened, locks are off but we stay imprisoned mentally with faux jailer.

    HG, can you provide and example?

  17. RunningAway says:

    The narcs are prisoners to fuel. I may have been thrown in narc jail for a brief time but I’ll walk free, unencumbered by the abyss and fully aligned with reality.

  18. Peaceful says:

    Very good HG. But I look at it this way…
    It wasn’t a relationship. It was a crime.

  19. NarcAngel says:

    True. But who the prisoner is,is a matter of perspective.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Ha, ha! True!

    2. mistynolan01 says:

      NarcAngel, do you think the narc may feel like a prisoner at times?

      1. NarcAngel says:


        Im sure they would disgree,but yes I do. The Narc is not a real person. The real person is a prisoner inside the construct that the Narc is slave to obtaining fuel for the maintenence of. They may not see it as a chore but it uses energy that they would prefer to reserve and they believe they can not exist without either fuel or the construct. That there is no escape from that (their claim),not only puts them under my definition of prisoner but shows where the real power lies (inside the construct). Unless of course they want to prove me wrong by trying isolation to show that they will not cease to exist-just not in the way they choose to,

  20. Windstorm2 says:

    Oooh! That’s bleak, HG. I don’t think it’s that bad (unless we’re trapped in a house and can’t get out, like when we were children). Really it’s more like we trap ourselves and create a sort of virtual mental prison of fear and confusion. Buts that’s really an illusion, don’t you think? In a way, we trap ourselves as much as the narc traps us. We’re our own jailer.

    1. mistynolan01 says:

      Windstorm I totally agree with your assessment. It got to the point where my every move was measured and made according to what mood narc was in. I was in restraints of my own making.

    2. Narc affair says:

      Windstorm2…this is my thoughts exactly we are our own jailkeeper. The narc senses were good supply in this respect that we are pliable and have cracks in who we are. I really think narcs and codependants are two sides of the same coin. I think all victims have codependancy issues of some sort and vulnerability that puts them in that jail. As time goes on so many things can keep them in that prison cell like financial dependancy, fear of physical abuse, fear of loss of children, so much of it fear based. Were also conditioned thru the abuse to stay behind the jail bars. Many develop stockholm syndrome as well and think their jail keeper is their friend and caregiver.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Very true. My exhusband had me convinced for years that if I left him I wouldn’t be able to make it and of the children. He was adamant that he’d disappear into the hills of West Virginia and id never see him or get a dime from him.

        In hind sight, that was ridiculous. He never helped with the kids anyway. I had a good job with a steady income and all his family stood by me. When I finally did leave him, he never even moved out of the house!

      2. Narc affair says:

        Hi windstorm2…you rose above the fears he tried to put in your head and called his bluff that took all his power away!! 👍

      3. ava101 says:

        I love that picture of you (two)!

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Thanks! I thought that pic best showed who I am – or at least who I want to be!

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            It is a fabulous picture! You are truly lovely inside and out!

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            Thanks! At least I have crazy old grey-haired grandma down pretty good! 😉

          3. MLA - Clarece says:

            I would adopt you as my Grandma. You are so sweet and so wise!

          4. Windstorm2 says:

            Thank you!

          5. NarcAngel says:

            Hey Granny. Pleased to meet you. All looks well in Kansas.

          6. Windstorm2 says:

            Hey NarcAngel!
            Good to hear from you. All is probably well enough. Don’t know how much longer I can stay in this house full of Monkeys, though! 🐒 😝🐒🐒🐒
            While I’ll miss them all, I’ll sure appreciate my oasis of peace and tranquility when I get back home!!

          7. Windstorm2 says:

            You look really good in your pic! Nice to meet you, too!

      4. Narc affair says:

        Windstorm2…great pic!!!

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Thanks, Narc Affair!

      5. Twilight says:


        Your beautiful and that precious little one,

      6. ava101 says:

        Oohh NarcAngel: you look exactly like I had pictured you! I just thought you had shorter hair. 🙂

    3. E. B. says:

      Hi Windstorm,
      Congratulations on your new grandchild! I love your new picture. She looks comfortable in your arms.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you, EB! It’s a very sweet feeling rocking a baby!

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