Poll : How Did You First Find Out About Narcissism?
Hello, this time I would like you to share your experience of how you first came to know about narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder. Did you happen to know about the disorder prior to your entanglement with one of our kind? Did you talk to someone about the odd behaviours you were experiencing with your intimate partner or family member and they suggested what that person may well be? Perhaps you could not work out why you get receiving silent treatments or why your brother went into sudden rages and your internet research eventually brought you to the door of narcissism.
Thereafter you will no doubt have filled your boots reading, watching and learning from various sources, but that is for a different poll. Today is about what caused that light bulb to switch on that very first time?
Please do expand on your experience and perhaps include where you went down the wrong route before learning the reality, in the comment section.
Thank you for participating.
Loading ...404 thoughts on “Poll : How Did You First Find Out About Narcissism?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
I took your survey. I have a narcissist in my life, so I watch a lot of You-Tube videos on it. Sam was my favorite then, one day, you were in the search results. Now, Tudor is frequently appearing…the Tudor Dynasty. Is your first name Henry, and are you a direct descendent of Henry VIII? Pat
I was googling stuff about sex addicts and it led me to a few sites including this blog!
I learned thru the internet thanks to my entanglement with my narc. I had always had narcissism in my family but suffered thru it just thinking it was differing personalities. It always felt very wrong and unnatural but i more or less pushed it aside to focus on my life little did i know it was very much still there but unresolved waiting to be dealt with. I later became entangled with my present narc and 3 yrs ago was at the peak of some of the devaluement and went on u tube trying to see if anything would explain or help ease what i was going thru. I think my first query if i can remember correctly was ” why does a person pretend to be many types of people?”. He was faking different personas on and offline. It amazed me how he could remember his lies for each persona and deeply bothered me. This is when i came across narcissism and later sociopath which im certain he is. My first u tubes were from delusion disspeller. Shortly after i was overwhelmed by how much was out there on narcissism! Some good, some not so good resources. HG i came across a year or so ago on a talk interview. At the time i was very angry and it wasnt until i came across the written blogs here that i really seen the incredible wealth of knowledge within them! I knew about narcissism when i came across HG’s work but never had the whole picture until then.
I remember clearly the “a ha” moment when i watched that first narcissism video and i was stunned. I just sat there and then i cried tears bc i realised there was a name to this but on a deeper level it was no longer about the narc it was about my mother. My whole childhood was wrapped up in this new term “narcissism”. There was a name for it. It was real and not a difference of personalities. It was an actual disorder!!!
Very interesting story NA. I can relate. I too had the same experience with my family, never really realizing what I was dealing with . I am glad you found the answers. It’s such a relief to the soul knowing that you weren’t seeing things and that it isn’t you. 🌺
After I had a very disturbing experience with my psychopath and he ‘cut’ me off, I felt like I had been run over by a train. The grief was so heavy even though I had only been with him for 3 months. And we saw each other like 10 times total. I didn’t understand why I was feeling so low and in such pain. I went to a therapist through my employee assistance program. I began to tell him about all the men I had been with, and the strange things that occurred – mainly sexually.
So he told me that I am just looking for an alpha male and should try S&M clubs to find someone that can dominate me the ‘right’ way.
I came out of that session feeling even worse and more confused. So I went to my computer and typed in ‘women that love men that treat them bad’. And that is when I learned about psychopathy.
The problem though was I learned about the worst of the worst (I.e. my psychopath). Meaning most narcissistic traits flew right under my radar. I ran Dr. Hares psychopathy test on all my guys – new and old. Only my psychopath scored a perfect 40. So I thought the rest were ‘normal’ with some psychopathic traits. I was just too emotional and not good in relationships. I thought I’m the problem, the common denominator. It was not until after my last narc, that I saw a therapist who revealed to me that my ex was a narcissist. Even then, I didn’t take the term seriously. I thought yes he is selfish and conceited. I know that. But it was you Mr. Tudor that revealed to me what narcissism truly is. And all the men I gave passes to were ALL narcs. Some even sociopaths/psychopaths.
Oh, wow, love. What a horrible therapist at the employee program. That’s exactly what I’m afraid of. I was sent to a therapist about 15 yrs ago because of the impact my ex relationship had on me and she asked such very dump questions, that I didn’t go. I guess luckily.
It took the worst for me, too, to finally realize that I had been with other narcs before (just recently). My exnarc scored in my psychopathy test about 37 or something like that. I scored hopelessly near 0.
I couldn’t believe what I read in my diaries about past relationships just now – but I had no clue back then.
Yes, very effective to learn from HG about narc traits and own empath traits, absolutely.
I learned about the existence of narcs when I researched on the internet what was happening to me. It took a while to find out about narcissism and then to find a good source, and one of the first was Vaknin. But HG is the best of course. I feel actually blessed to have found this website, HG!
Thank you Ava101.
You are most welcome, HG.
Thanks Ava. I think that therapist was not adequately trained and had absolutely 0 understanding of personality disorders. But seeing him was a blessing because I was motivated to learn more and pursue it further. Funny your ex scored a 37. Yes, mine was a high performer too 😁
Where is this test?
I could not understand why I was attracted to a person whose values were antithetical to mine. I researched it online and found out about narcissism. This was very hard to accept because what are the chances of meeting an NPD person? After months and months of not completely accepting it I came upon HG Tudor. Game Changer. Problem solved. I love you HG!
HG approves!
Hi HG, I think the very fact that I was googling for answers says it all, I’ve never done that about anybody in my life nor have I had reason to. I started with mental depression something he claims to have been diagnosed with , this led to manic depression and bi Polar , it did not fit , however borderline came up and I really felt it was describing him , I was slightly in shock because I knew nothing about personality disorders , I started reading about Cluster B and I knew that’s what I was dealing with . This was 14 months ago, then I found you and started to learn about narcissists and the break down of types, I knew he was something but was still in some denial. We were split up at the time of me doing this research and when he hoovered after 4 months silence I went back. I spoke to him about all this and he said that he felt he had N Traits but was not NPD. It lasted 10 months before I left 2 months ago and have since received a grand Hoover and a proxy Hoover, but he’s gone now as I ignored. Armed with the knowledge from your blog and your books I was able to observe him for 10 months and I knew with absolutely no doubt that he is a narcissist , I had to accept it and leave. Although the devaluation had been already going on anyway . He’s a lesser to mid and a victim narcissist . I’ve read a lot about narcissism this last 12 months , probably too much as it can become all consuming , with the cluster B’s and comorbid it can really be quite frightening what your dealing with. However there is so much information out there but you are the only one describing it the way you do and this is what people need to read to really understand the subtle details of this behaviour that you talk about . I’m very pleased I found you and still very sad that he has this mental illness and that I’ve had to leave forever.
It is good to have you here Lisa.
HG , this is a bit off topic lol but relevant to how do people find out about narcissism . I don’t watch the soap opera’s but for about 12 months Emmerdale has had a story line about what I now know is a narcissist ( a greater narc) maybe a narcpath. The storyline has caused quite a bit of controversy and has been highly publicised and yet not once has the word narcissist or narcissism or psycopath or personality disorder or mental health been mentioned . Yet the writer of this particular storyline must know about this type of narcissist in order to write such an accurate character . This would be a perfect opportunity to bring this disorder to the public forum but I know it won’t happen and I really wonder why ? Phrases like he’s a con man , he pretends to be nice but has a temper, he’s a bit of a cassonova , he’s a user, he’s violent , he’s secretly abusive BUT never he’s a Narcissist . Still the media portrays narcissism as grandiose show off behaviour, I think we all accept people in showbiz behaving narcissisticly because they have money fame and people kissing their arses 24 seven and never telling them the truth this could even be situational narcissism , arguably are they famous because they are narcs or did fame create circumstantial narcissism . But never is the fundamentals of this disorder portrayed , talked about or labelled for what it is . Why do you think this is ?
You are the only one that can do it and it needs to be done !!
I asked google why he was always having affairs with my friends and why he smeared me to my friens and family.
I just casually looked up the Silent Treatment after being discarded. I just couldn’t believe what it led to. Then I read about the different stages of a relationship with a Narcissist just as it had happened. I also discovered that two family members have had this.
I had reacted *very* emotionally to some of his manipulations, and thought something was fundamentally wrong with me. So, I started to read the old masters of psychoanalysis, looking for patterns and clues, anything that would explain my behaviour, thinking I’d either find the root cause of this, or go insane. There I was, reading and sobbing uncontrollably when I came across something that validated what I felt. I was not insane after all, what a relief!!
That was the moment when immense anger set in, and I focused on HIM and his behaviour patterns. The only way I could *articulate* the madness was referring to it as “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde”, which led me to BPD, and finally to NPD. BINGO!
Ever since, I have been binge-reading/watching anything on narcissism I could get my hands on. I talk about little else in my personal life and direct those in danger to appropriate resources, including yours. One could say it has become an obsession of sorts, but I got my 🔥FIRE🔥 back, well and truly!! 😀
YOU-TUBE
The first I heard of it was when I was 9 and my parents went to marriage counseling. My mother was reading and I asked what it was and she said, “Narcissism” I said what’s that? She said it’s when people are totally in love with themselves and hate everyone else. Your Father is that way and so is your Grandmother and so was my mother. Now stop bothering me I’m trying to read and this is important.” Funny how she could see it in them and not herself. She was the biggest offender.
I never thought much about it again until In therapy my doctor mentioned my parents were narcissists. I asked if my half brother who molested me was. He said yes. I went on the internet and looked up narcissism and target. I seen someone mention HG Tudor who writes books about it. I went to kindle looked him up and found the book Sitting Target. Everything finally made sense and I cried and felt vindicated. It wasn’t my fault. Finally I understood that. I went to this website and have been educated ever since. I owe it all to HG Tudor. He taught me in a few hours what I needed to understand my whole life. I was not to blame. I’m forever grateful. Thank you to the man that HG Tudor is. 💙
I first learned about it in my Abnormal Psychology course in college. I believe my mother’s ex-husband is a narcissist/sociopath. It wasn’t until I was 35 that I became involved with a narcissist. I remembered what I had learned in school and started researching more online.
Hi HG. I had lots of trouble with my husband for years. I knew that there was something off and that normal people aren’t as cruel. For years I wanted out or for it to get better, but didn’t have the self esteem or awareness to do so. After a weekend retreat at my yoga place where we did chakra work, I woke up to the fact that my husband has been verbally and emotionally abusing me. As I googled verbal abuse and other titles, narcissism came up. I then began to devour any and all info and your posts began to come up. You continue to remind me of his true self and thus prevents me from having abuse amnesia.
Feeling Shell Shocked.Feeling Numb. Feeling Guilty, like I had Done Something Wrong. Feeling Crazy. Feeling Disoriented and Devastated. Tremendous Grief. My Overwhelming sense of Loss. Incredible Shame. My world is Shattered and its all My Fault. Why?
Why?
Feeling Lost. Feeling Hopeless. Feeling that I Need to Fix It. Feeling Desperate. Feeling Angry with everyone except him. Feeling Sorry for him and Excusing his Abuse .Denial. It’s All My Fault. Will he ever speak to me again? Why Won’t he Talk to me? Why?
Why?
Always the tidal wave of memories rushing over me -the good things-
-the good times-. I am a Traitor. I Broke His Trust. I Want to Die. I Cannot Move On. No one Understands. They Think I’m Crazy. Am I Crazy? Was it so bad? I Want Him Back. Why?
Why?
What the Hell just Happened to Me…?
Jody Allen/Early Post Escape Aftermath
Intense Research about what was wrong with me kept dumping me on the front stoop at the house of Narcissistic Abuse.
I opened the door and a whole new world opened up to me. It’s been a very rough ride, but I am thankful for it all the same.
Thank you, H.G. for giving us this vast well of information and the option to keep our eyes wide open or to remain in the abyss of denial without judgement.
Jody,
All the feelings/thoughts you describe in the first part of your post (Early Post Escape Aftermath) describe exactly how I was feeling when I first began my escape from my narc relationship. It was uncanny to see myself as I was before, realizing what I had been subjected to, and made me so sad to read where my head and soul were two years ago. Thank God and H G for the awareness/knowledge that is becoming more widespread as sites such as this one help victims of this insidious disorder.
My story of awareness begins just like yours. I was in such pain/depression/despair that I could barely function. In desperation I Googled “Am I crazy or is it him?” which led to a website where they described NPD and then listed behaviours of the narcissist. As I sat there checking off one after the other, it was as if the heavens opened and I found some relief that I was NOT going crazy. Thereafter, I become voracious in reading anything I could find on the subject.
I suppose Big Brother is watching what I look up on the internet because I began to see blog suggestions popping up on FB. That is how I landed on H G’s site.
His no-holds-barred approach and the fact that he provided such insight in to the mind of the narcissist was so helpful, as most books provided the clinical causes of this disorder and other sites seemed to repeat the same information over and over again.
I have said it before and I will continue to say it: Thank you H G for the insight you continue to provide. You have brought sanity back to many who were barely holding on and sliding in to an abyss of depression and despair. Thanks to your posts and books I am slowly regaining my strength and sense of self again. I am eternally grateful.
You are welcome.
Nomorenarcs
You said thank God and HG like they were two separate entities.
Ha ha, very good.
nomorenarcs
You Wrote: “My story of awareness begins just like yours. I was in such pain/depression/despair that I could barely function. In desperation I Googled “Am I crazy or is it him?” which led to a website where they described NPD and then listed behaviours of the narcissist. As I sat there checking off one after the other, it was as if the heavens opened and I found some relief that I was NOT going crazy. Thereafter, I become voracious in reading anything I could find on the subject.”
How uncanny that our story is so similar~ You did exactly what I did and am doing. The only difference there seems to be is that while the level of abuse fit the profile the Narcissist checklist didn’t quite match. I later found out because of the different levels of NPD (I would only find this out later on when I was introduced to H.G.) and probably because my narcissist didn’t fit this checklist exactly to a T, I wanted to remain in denial. After many narc hater sites I landed in here. Ironically, it was from a narc hater site that I found out about H.G.
I have been a little MIA lately, because I have been reading H.G.’s books. I just finished “Black Hole: The Narcissistic Hoover”, which I will praise H.G. for. I have found that reading his books not only gives me knowledge and a level of understanding to this whole dance we do, it also helps me to not contact my narcissist the way I used to (I was Terrible about contacting him) I’m beginning to feel a little bit like my old self again, however I’m only 2 months in and know that I have a pretty long road ahead, since I have to learn to break my own bad habits in my relationships. I, too, am very grateful for being proactive enough to want to know what was truly going on.
On another note: I wonder how many times ” Am I crazy or is it him?”
has been Googled…exactly what I typed in the search box…
A Television Programme/Documentary about psychopaths and sociopaths, because I love criminal psychology. Up until that point, I was very naive and thought that they were all blatently dangerous and could be spotted easily. I knew they weren’t all killers, but all killers were psychopathic. That was the first step that then lead to watching more videos, and in turn, spotting ‘narcissistic traits’ and ‘narcissistic abuse symptom’ ones and it hit me like a tonne of bricks. I did nothing but read and watch related videos for a couple of months afterwards.
What sealed the deal and brought about anxiety was this site, though. So thorough and the realest of my experiences were all gloriously brought to life. There are still so many out there unknowingly living in confused torment. When you try to explain things to relatives and friends, it’s true that some, still, do not actually ‘get it’.
Funny you mentioned the psychopath documentary Sarah. My first night in London, I turn on the tv and it’s a documentary about psychopaths and serial killers in the UK. I had to turn it off because that’s not how I wanted to start off my vacation in England 😁
What?!
Oh hell no!
Hold up.
Huh??
Oh okay
Known as a “freak magnet” amongst friends and family, I figured I just attracted the wrong men as my archive of relationships of the toxic variety grew. I was becoming aware, with hindsight, of the characteristics these partners shared with each other and beyond that, with my father. Despite all starting off as complete gentleman who seemed as unlike him as possible, they ultimately all became versions of my father. The last (and most confusing and terrifying) entanglement made me want to grasp the chaos, which lead me to typing the words “liar/abusive/no remorse”…and bingo.
My son, who was studying to be a counselor, was dating a girl that was his dream at first, then became difficult and puzzling. My son said, “Mom, she’s got something. I don’t know what it is, but it’s something.” At that time, I was separated from my husband of 32 years bc the tension and hatred had been so bad. Anyway, one day my son sent me an article on Narcissism. “Mom, this is what she’s got!” As I read the article, it was an exact description of my life…it was the turning point. That was 2 years ago. I am now divorced and working hard to get myself back. When we separated, we both agreed to go to therapy. I go once or twice a week. Nex went twice. He told me then that the therapist said, he should have never married anyone…When I became more knowledgeable, I asked him if there was any mention of Narcissism. He looked suprised, then admitted that yes, there was. He has explained at times, how he has chosen to operate. HG, he is def a greater Narcissist. I could write a book.
I started searching ‘extreme passive aggression’ but still that didn’t yield results I needed. It wasn’t until experiencing a 2nd narc–a somatic player who had a harem, when I searched that, stumbled upon an article that described in full what he did. From #2, I was able to figure #1 and that #2 resulted from not healing from #1.
This is what makes it scary. And he fact that there are so many “truths” out there. For at least one year I could not pin point his behavior due to “lists” … this is how they always behaved etc.
I googled Silent treatment and lies…
today I’ve experiences so much more
-gaslighting
– smear (I think)
-refusal to and many promises .. to get my shot bad
– futurefaking (soon, next week, tomorrow….)
-hoovers in different forms
-discovered his lies about his finances, bankrupscies…
-Hoover when a new supply apparently is in the golden period … this is the far most obserd thing to be honest!!! His hoovers were massive when he had a new supply… so shit crazy.. I guess it was not/is not the golden period but perhaps a discard phase… not sure
-flying monkeys
-MIL the true villain and also a luitenant and ..
-Hoover by proxy
– denial
-fake and vague apologies
-blame shifting …
-behavioral patterns (all ex are crazy)
So I need to read this list when I do question…. “maybe it was me???”
Still hoping it won’t work out and he will come begging … hard because IM LOOONG GONE!
I’ve received my answers …
I hurt my foot pretty seriously and there was NO sympathy or help offered. All i got was stories about how he kept working with a broken leg. Suck it up Buttercup. So while on the couch, i started research and THANK GOD I found H.G. So much help….im surviving it but still living it. He actually is more human since meeting my grandchildren
For me it was the behavior of then candidate Trump that led me to narcissism and NPD research which made me realize I was living with a psychopath. My research was what helped finalize the decision to end it and escape. This site was a huge part of that.
Re the poll: After a physical incident, a mutual doctor advised me not to go back. He said that he was a psychopath. I remember asking if they were the ones that don’t feel remorse, & he said yes & expanded on it a bit. I basically dismissed it at the time but circled back to it months later, started researching, & discovered he was absolutely correct.
My parentes have given me self-worth and healthy boundaries. They have raised me to always meet people with a kind smile and with tolerance and respect. The upper lesser tried to take advantage of that.
Our interactions would go like this:
Talking on the phone (always long conversations) he would say that something came up and he would have to call me back later that day. He never did. At the beginning I reacted by trying to call him back, but after some interactions like this I just stopped.
Texting was the same. He suddenly just stopped texting and didn’t even open my last text, and he left it like that for weeks🙃
When he decided to contact me again I would answer, polite as I am☺️ And he would just start telling me about his everyday life, and never mention our last conversation.
Face2Face he was actually always pleasant.
Looking back I see all the red flags, thanks to Mr Tudor. They are all there in the conversation if you just know how to read between the lines.
The last drop in the glass was this episode:
I was travelling and he asked me to bring something back for him. We agreed that I would swing by his house when I got back.
N: “Please call first, so that we (him and the kids) are home. We would love to see you”.
Me: “Will do.”
So I called. No answer. I called later that night. No answer. Texted him next morning. No answer. Called later that night. No answer. Next day texting him to say I was leaving it (although valuable) at his front door. He called🙃
After that I searched the web for information on sadistic and manipulative behaviour. My search ended with this blog and your books🙏🏻
I now feel Tudorized😃 and with this empowerment in my corner I have covered the Blind Side💪🏻
Holy crap! That reminds me of the time my mid ranger said “text me to let me know you’re home safely”….and I did and he never read it (it was what’s app)….he read it 2 weeks later. lol.
Hehe…I actually go through it again at the moment:) He always texts me when he is doing something nice with the kids, and up until now I actually thought he was a friend (although not as good as my real friends), and that he actually liked me:) I know otherwise now🙃 A week ago he texted to tell me that him and the kids were on holiday. I wished them a great holiday and also all the best in his and one of his IPSS endless try on a relationship. I also told him that I had a date that evening.
Him: ” so how do you want me to replay to that”?
Me: How about you wish me good luck too”?
He has not read the text yet:)
I am probably beeing smeared at the moment, and he is looking for my replacement:)
Through my divorce process, a psych evaluation was required for the entire family. The kids and I were so eroded and confused they were exactly sure what was going on. That coupled with my ex telling everyone that I was bi polar and suicidal left the courts no other options. It wasnt until he behaved to erratically in front of his own attorney that she immediately filed for a protective order for the children and I, that we got any support or relief. The children and i have been in therapy for the past 10 years to deal with PTSD and profound anxiety caused by this individual. To date he is still stalking us and send his flying monkeys out to do his bidding. At present he has moved two streets over and has a 26 year old meth head for a girlfriend. She is not much older than my daughter and terribly unstable. Law enforcement is worthless as is a restraining order. I had one for 9.5 years and he just violated it. When the cops came over to take a report, they felt bad for him. Told me I should just give a guy a break. Fucking idiots all of them.
Sorry Fox. My ex told everyone I was bipolar, too. And you are right. Anyone who feels bad for a narc is a fucking idiot!
I searched on the internet for his strange behaviour and I watched too much TV at that time. Crime fiction and stuff like that. They very often talked about narcissistic behaviour. And I thought, typical american fiction. They see ghosts and demons everywhere. But I was curious. I did not know what narcissism should be and looked at wikipedia. There is a short description of the nine traits of narcissistic behaviour. It was said there, when 5 of the descriptions fit, then the psychologists would talk about a narcissistic disorder and not only about narcissistic traits. In his case 7 matches, not on a very high level, but 7 of nine. That shocked me at first and then I read everything what I could find. I read a lot about manipulative behaviour, emotional blackmail, consequences of sexual abuse in childhood and all that stuff and I came closer and closer. Some day I read your name somewhere and took a look at it. Now I am here. And I see all the fragmented pieces of narcissism at one place. Even the steady and very fast changes of topics from cruel to soft to cruel again show the whole complexity of this disorder. It is all part of it.
I googled “how to get over a harsh out of the blue breakup” after my ex fiancé broke up with me. Some of the search results came up as narcissism and when I opened up the links I felt like I was reading a description of my relationship and my ex’s entire family. It was if I was holding a cat and didn’t know what a cat was and then I saw on the internet that an animal that has whiskers and meows and has claws is a cat. That is how the realization hit me.
Love that description “holding a cat that I didn’t know was a cat”. So fitting. When the realization hits thst you’ve been dealing with a narc everything becomes crystal clear.
Trying to understand such cold, caustic behavior with constant silent treatments from the person I was seeing for two years at that time, I came across an article in Psychology Today on Misogyny from February 2015. From there the term narcissism crept up and within weeks I stumbled on HG’s blog his first day on 8/31/15.
Silent treatment! He would vanish with no explanation or offer of when to expect him. Then ignore my heart broken calls emails. I just wanted to understand. I finally google” why does my bf ignore me and vanish giving me the silent treatment then return days later like nothing happend?
Hope that didnt post twice. Something happened with the first transmission.
Ironically my Mother when I was young. I used to love watching John McEnroe play tennis. She would ruin my experience by wandering in and out of the room commenting on his behaviour and saying she couldnt understand why I would want to watch such a narcissist. Same when I watched Muhammad Ali (so I totally relate to your Shut Up post). When I asked what that was she replied: a delusional person who is full of themselves. After many incidences like this I said: oh, so StepNarc is a narcissist. I was then shut down with: “that mouth of yours will be your undoing”. I asked a teacher how to spell it to look it up in the dictionary (Im old) and it confirmed what she said so I only knew that definition of what I now know is only the tip of the iceberg.
The rest of the education came later but Ive already failed at being the “Accurate, succinct, effective” that HG prefers lol, so that is for another time if it arises.
Looking things up in the dictionary? Next you’re going to tell me you had an encyclopedia set. And even yellow and white pages books?
Wow! I’ve seen some in a museum 😉 or maybe it was a library. Aren’t they the same 😜
Didn’t everybody? The phone books stayed right next to the rotary phone. And those encyclopedia Brittanica’s were invaluable to me! Only sex education I got pre-narc fiancê.
Everybody’s been talking about googling their questions – and Godknows I love google, but I remember when those encyclopedias were all I had!
Love
Haha, yes! Encyclopedias were the internet and there were never any IOS updates. Phones had cords and you could put your vagina in front of it all you wanted but it wouldnt send him a pic. If he called, your parents answered and decided if you got to talk to him, and if they didnt, you consoled yourself to sleep with your transistor radio (if you had enough money for new batteries) and hoped hed call again. Now here I sit conversing with you on my 12,inch Ipad Pro with my iphone next to me and listening to my Bose wireless sound system. And guess what? Other than the delivery-It appears not much has changed.
Oh yes! NA, I forgot about parents being our screeners. They were the best, especially my father. He would yell up to me in my room, “dum-dum is on the phone” (my first narc was “dum-dum”, a lesser somatic)…hahahahha the good ole days.
Lol I’m only teasing. I had to use encyclopedias for book reports. And I remember AOL dial up days. Waiting 50 minutes just for a pic to fully load.
Oh Love! I’m going to bat for NA here. I too, have used a dictionary and encyclopedia and no they are not one in the same. We aren’t one foot in the grave yet… lol
Hi MLA, Love and NA,
Yes, I have used a dictionary (I had a favorite one actually, it was the American Heritage from the 90’s–I loved that one). I grew up with encyclopedias too—a blue Britannica set and a white set too…both from the 1970s. I wrote my school reports by going to these books and when desperate I went to the library and used a card catalog and prayed that the books were reshelved. Oh, the horrible old days!! Though, I must admit, I do love the smell of an old library.
Thank freaken GOD for the internet and virtual libraries to find articles and such. You can write a paper in a fraction of the time now.
Is that like Wikipedia? 😉
Chiming in, why not … I remember the rotary phone and my mom screening calls too. We had to answer the phone to find out who was calling – no caller ID! The Encyclopedia Britannica set is still at my mom’s house. I remember when it was brand new. Anyone remember when Encarta came along?
Mary
Didnt he discover Spain?
Hi Mary,
Yes!! We had a yellow rotary phone at my parents. Encarta, was that an Internet dictionary? I forget now. I do remember the AOL funky sounds when signing up while dialing in and connecting.
And before the microwave. Took forever to cook a darn baked potato!! Then when cartoons were only played on Saturday mornings. It was rough then 😂
HG
What was your favourite cartoon?
Courage the Cowardly Dog.
That’s interesting HG, how old were you when you liked that cartoon ? Strange choice ?
Younger than I am now. Why is that a strange choice?
Just trying to work out your age , you may be younger than I thought !! Unless you took an interest in this doggy age 30 !!! Does the dog describe you ? 😀
I’m presuming your answer will be
No
I know you are Lisa, hence why I didn’t give a specific number.
Eustace amused me.
No, Courage does not describe me, don’t be cheeky!
Remember in Saving Private Ryan when there was a rather large pool between the unit as to what Captain Miller (Tom Hanks) did in the States when he wasn’t fighting a war?
This is what these questions remind me of..
If Courage the Cowardly Dog was your favorite cartoon, then that would place you around my kids age, as they liked it, too. Late 20’s no older than mid 30’s.
However, you seem to have a lot of life experience, much of which you speak of as though it happened not too recently but “back in the day”.
The question wasn’t asked specifically, just what was your favorite cartoon…not while growing up.
Perhaps you weren’t allowed to watch cartoons while growing up because they didn’t pertain to knowledge or winning, so regarded as a complete waste of time.
If you made up for lost time while away at college then that would make sense..
I think you are in your 40’s, but, as always, it’s a complete mystery and one which will not be confirmed or denied by you.
So, there is no pool to be won.
And HG takes cod liver oil…..old joints maybe?????
Just to clarify, I don’t take cod liver oil, I merely referenced that as a joke owing to SW being cheeky.
I know…….I didn’t mean to offend you old boy……just my quirky sense of humour!!! The narc doth protest too much?????? I had better be careful……not everyone appreciates my peculiar logic…….in fact I don’t think anyone does!!!!!!
No offence taken. I am younger than you by the way.
I am not taking the bait…….although every bone in my body craves to do so………No duel = no fuel!!!! I am learning from the master……better late than never!!!!
That’s what I was thinking , what if he’s only 28 or 29 maybe 32 max . He must have liked this cartoon as an adult 🐶
Lisa,
You are correct. However, he did just throw us a bone. If we can find out how old Diva is…then we have something to go by…it could only be by days, months or years…but that is a starting point. 🙂
You are all assuming that HG is telling the truth and that he wouldn’t possibly lie to us…..who are we kidding???? In any event…..I am 40 years young!!!!!
Diva
Enjoy your youth!
I imagine HG’s about the age of my kids -31 to 34, or near enough to make no difference. He thinks very differently though, but my two that are narcs are midrange. When I try to look back thru my murky memories to my exhusband at that age, I believe he was as smart and self aware (and he wouldn’t have admitted to being a narc back then either, if he’d had a choice). Age and its accompanying wisdom has mellowed him and dampened his darkness. When the same has happened to HG, i believe he will find new levels of satisfaction without causing as much pain to others. Intelligent narcs seem to change their focus as they age from destruction to creation. Like building the legacy. At least that seems to be the way my greaters have gone. And certainly my hope for HG. (My emotional thinking and proud of it!😊)
Well I know a narc that got to his mid eighties and still had 3 women on the go – all of them lived in different continents…..neither one really knowing about the other…..a greater without doubt!!!! It would be health as opposed to age that would put a stop to it in my opinion!!!!!! Although I am no expert….. but I never saw any mellowing of a greater narc purely due to age.
In my mind I think HG is in his mid 40’s. I could be wrong.
Diva
I certainly don’t mean becoming any less of a narcissist with age. That doesn’t “mellow”. I have seen over time, though, as they become more aware of their own mortality that they can become more focused on the legacy they will leave behind and how people think about them. This often leads to less hurtful abuse of other people. It’s probably a mixture of several factors, Intelligence and foresight being very important. Declining physical health I’m sure plays a part since it makes their looming mortality impossible to ignore.
I guess that’s the best we can hope for although I have not witnessed that personally….yet….maybe it depends on the degree of the narc personality involved and other influences outside of their control……..I hope you are right though…….it’s a glimmer of light.
🤗
Haha, last time I visited my mother I asked her what she was planning to do with the dictionary from 1965 (we’ve had several spelling reforms since then) and the atlas from 1985 … she said she was using them regularly. Hm.
Yes … waited endlessly for those phone calls back then and later, my mother woke me up regularly with an angry voice because I had slept with the cordless phone again. We had actual letters …
As for information: I really never ever got the idea to go to the psychology department of the library for relationship advice … in my mid twenties there were some best sellers around, from friends, such as “women who love too much” (if that’s the English title), cinderella complex, and co-dependent no more. By it never crossed my mind to search those topics on the internet … with its 10000 pages or so. 😉
Liking this guessing game. 😀 My greater desperately wanted to be in his 30s and took me a long time before he confessed he wasn’t at all. So HG is probably trying his hardest to appear to be in his thirties too. Appeals to both younger and older victims. Female victims are quite often in their thirties and beyond (I might have this theory completely wrong so apologises if I have) – so for HG to appeal to his audience, he has to appear to be in his thirties, up to mid forties.
I suspect he isn’t. He’s either under or way over. Suspect it might be the latter 😆 as narcs lie a lot, well, maybe not about their age, but then again mine did!
Wrong
I like under and over. 25 or 65. Doesn’t matter. Mr. Tudor brings his A game.
My narc lied about his age. He said he was 10 yrs younger than he was but he didnt look that young and i found out. He acts way younger than hi age and says hes been “carded” buying liquor. Ummm i dont think so! I liked his younger fun attitude but i his immaturity was a big turn off.
Hi folks….Diva here….I can’t sleep…..I am feeling guilty about this age conversation that keeps going…..I lied about my age….sort of….. just had to confess…..but if anything it does prove that you can be any age you want to be if nobody knows who you are. TRUTHFULLY…….and you all probably, rightfully, won’t believe me now…..but I have in fact been 40 for the last 5 years and I am probably going to say the same for the next 5 years or for as long as I can get away with it. Not that this will help with obtaining the answer that you want about HGs age……maybe ask yourself why he won’t say???? No one is going to guess who he is by him giving out his age, no more than him apparently stating his height, that he is good looking and has a long tongue!!!!…….I guess it keeps the suspense going if nothing else. Apologies for my deceit…….maybe I can sleep now. Just to be clear……if anyone asks…..I am still 40!!!!!
Wrong? You sure? 😉
Happy to go along with under 45. As said, it’s more appealing.
Positive and a yellow blob thing is not going to impact on the reality.
H.G.
The yellow blog is used to express our current emotions. All the texting. words can get lost in translation. Which implys to idiots, there’s a lack of discernment and comprehension.
I say between 46-49 yrs old. HG wrote an article once (I can’t remember which one off the top of my head) where he was talking about what year of school he was in and that he took a girl to see a movie. The movie was in theaters in the late 80s so based on that and the age he would have been in that year of school, that would put him between 46 and 49.
I agree Sues423. Besides I don’t know many 30 year olds who would go see Depeche Mode 4 TIMES on their recent tour. Lol
Sorry HG but my brother is in his thirties. Knowing them over time, him and his friends would be like Depeche who?! Total sign of being an 80’s child!
And yet when I have been to these concerts I have seen people aged from 20 to beyond 50, including several people I know in their thirties who watch them several times each tour.
Anyway, I like an Ariana Grande song, so that makes me 13.
Damn, 13 HG? What the hell is gonna happen to that voice when you hit puberty?
I will be the rumble of midnight thunder.
ahhh the best of sounds!
I agree, I love falling asleep at night to the sound of thunder.
I was born in 1971 in the UK……I have a vague recollection of the name Depeche Mode but I cannot recall one song without looking them up……and I used to watch Top of The Pops every week……….that’s all I am saying on the matter now……I am not commenting any further on HGs age……I am fearful that the narc is getting NARKY about it!!!!
there isn’t any logic in that statement
We are obviously on 2 different wave lengths…..I am pleased about that!!!!!!!!!
Madonna????? Luther Vandross???? Whitney Houston????The Bangles????? Michael Jackson???? Duran Duran?????? Wham????? Oh yeah……I remember now…….I just can’t get enough!!!!!……what a great narc song…….however it should have been “I just can’t get enough fuel”
Being curious I looked up some more of those Depeche Mode lyrics/songs….I now know why you like them…….if the next man/woman I meet likes Depeche Mode, I will be gone faster than a greased ferret!!!!!
Diva,Lol I loved Depeche Mode as a teenager:) was absolutely obsessed. Saw them live while in Germany way back in the day.Wow!amazing performance !At the time I understand they were actually a Christian rock band, tho since have looked that up and haven’t been able to get a clear answer as whether that is the case
Hi Star sometimes it is difficult to understand someones humour when texting…..however when I looked up Depeche Modes titles…..Enjoy The Silence…..Never Let Me Down Again…..Shake The Disease…..Policy of Truth……World In My Eyes……Useless…..Strangelove….am I making any sense now???? I haven’t a clue what the songs are about but the titles could have a narc theme. In any event…..I know you are a good sort after reading about your dogs and how you treat them like children. My name on this site was actually my dogs name – she is no longer with us….Diva
Hahahaha! OMG! “A greased ferret”. I will have to look them up now for sure.
I’ll admit I don’t understand the whole age debate. Maybe because if he’s under 44 I’m still old enough to be his mother.
I never even heard of Dépêche Mode until this blog and I was born in 1957. Maybe they were never popular here in the US. I did miss the top 40’s for much of the 80’s because I had a house full of babies, so maybe I missed DM.
I do know several narcs who are obsessed with music from other time periods than their own. And often these narcs go out of their way to hear live concerts. I think narcs appreciate music differently than the rest of us do. I’ve had narcs tell me that the lyrics have nothing to do with whether a song is good or not. That is unfathomable to me!
My personal opinion is trying to determine a narcs age by his taste in music is unreliable.
Thank you Windstorm. I don’t understand the Tudor age debate either. Whether he is in his 20s or 80s, he obviously has enough narc knowledge to span across generations. I personally have dated narcs younger and older than me. Everything Mr. Tudor writes about applies to them all. So once again, why does his age matter?
Spot on, I agree!
Okay to bring this full circle and back to our resident Narcissist (and hopefully end the age debate my question inadvertantly started, as its futile)……I asked which cartoon character because I was interested in the character that he would gravitate to- not to determine his age. I was not familiar with the cartoon so had to look it up. I assumed that it was not the dog that kept him coming back so my next question was: Was it Eustace and why? He has already answered It was Eustace so now my question is:
HG
What was it specifically about Eustace that you identified with or that entertained you?
Did your Mother approve of you watching this cartoon or did you watch it when she was absent?
I found Eustace’s cynical and sardonic manner entertaining.
I watched it when she was absent.
I was not familiar, so I watched a bunch of Courage cartoons on Youtube. Eustace is all things negative and nothing is ever his fault. Gives criticism but cant take it. Finds it entertaining to provoke others. Lives with an extremely passive person and thinks the dog is stupid…………it was all starting to sound a bit familiar but I have to say, Eustace did make me laugh.
Says HG as he hums “Problem” and hits send to put Clarece in her place…
MLA!! HAHAHAHAHAHA ! You are too funny!! He’s definelty in mood today that’s for sure lol!
I know guys in their 20s that like Depeche Mode. It depends on the region of the country and genre of music. We have 80s rock events here all the time and its packed with 20 year olds. Now why I am there is another discussion lol 😂
Thank you MLA!
I have thought the same before about 80’s music and how knowledgeable HG is with knowing songs from that era. I do have to admit though that my 32 year old son absolutely loves 80’s music like I do. Lol. So who knows.
He tells us when we’re wrong but won’t tell us when we’re right! Lol. You may have to rethink about stocking the Rasberry jam or he may have to settle for seedless. Hahaha!
Seedless raspberry jam. Heresy! Off with your head!
Never understood taking the seeds out. Always thought anyone that cant get past a little seed cant be much fun in bed……
Hahahahaha! That just made me laugh out loud. Thanks for that! I needed a good laugh today. 😉
Thanks for that info……I knew he was older than me……..by that comment he made……only 5x…….. imagine lying about your age……tut tut!!!!
Have you never heard of a film being re-released? Too quick to judge, but then, that is the problem you have because of your emotional thinking.
I have to partially disagree….I believe my problem……and I have too many to mention….is that I am usually too slow to judge……that is why I ended up here in the first place…..however, emotional thinking……tick!!!!! Age is only a number……my narc used to say…..you are only the age of the person you feel…….he always went out with younger women!!!
We are physical (bodies) emotional (feelings) and Spirit ( purpose). How can we respond without emotions?
Ha ha! Best avoiding the yellow blob film then (Emoji Movie). I was actively discouraged from using them with my narc too, I never asked why. Just wanted to please him so I didn’t.
Sues423, my guess is 46-65 but apparently got it wrong. Problem is how do we discern when he’s telling the truth or when he’s not.
Still wrong.
Exactly AgeLess, you can’t .
He is telling the truth when he says that he is old enough to know and young enough to do. Cant he get a little credit for telling that truth? Baby steps lol.
Howdy NarcAngel,
I was responding to AgeLess’s question about how can we discern whether he is telling the truth. And the truth is we can’t . Not in this forum. I’ve stated a few times that I think he seems genuine. I’ve never accused him of lying.
Sues
That was totally tongue in cheek. Apologies if it came across as other than. By baby steps I meant perhaps he will go from vague to an actual number at some point.
Oh NA ,
No worries at all. You’re the best. I just wanted to make sure you knew where I was coming from 🌺
It’s all good sister! Lol
I certainly did consider that it may have been a second showing of the movie but that rarely ever happens in the USA. It’s usually Disney movies that are re-released. So I was using logic not emotion in my thinking. I also considered that it may be released at a later date over seas but it wouldn’t think it would be years later. But then again things may be different when it comes to movies in the U.K.
It wasn’t meant to offend you .
No offence taken. Certain cinemas would show a re-release some years after the original release.
Agree that their taste in music, in my experience anyway, doesn’t tally with their age. With greater he initially loved everything I loved (obviously) then once I “fell in love” with him, he revealed he was into completely different music way out of his own era. At least mid-range narc was honest from the beginning on music he’s into that didn’t quite go with his age at all.
HG, One Last Time?
Trying to figure out why I keep attracting the same men who have the same behavior, I went online to search, only to find a lot of articles basically tell me what I am doing wrong to not keep his interest. A lot was “If your guy is ignoring you or stopped calling you or is cheating on you, here are things to do or not do to keep his interest or get him back.” It was always somehow turned back on me… Until, last November…… when my life was changed…
I saw one of HG’s articles on a friends Facebook page. (the scary heart with EVIL in the middle intrigued me LOL) and that was all she wrote!!! SPOT ON, WELL COMMUNICATED, NO NONSENSE information and advice!!! I read and read until I couldn’t see straight! I couldn’t get enough! still can’t. Answers to everything I have been thinking and seeing all my life but didn’t know what it was. I am forever grateful!
Instagram. I started liking posts about women standing up to men treating them poorly, and it started suggesting narcissistic abuse awareness accounts. The quotes all aligned with my experience and I started googling and wound up here.
My Monster led me to look into narcissism. I thought narcissism was as benign as being vain prior to investigating behaviors. After looking into it I asked my therapist if BPD and NPD were linked to which she said yes. Then I learned about cluster B, blah, blah, blah.
Everything fell into place in that moment. It was as if the tumblers in a lock all fell into place at once. I realized that cluster B’s were the only personality I had ever had or sought relationship with.
I’m out of the last situation I was in but I have no idea how to detect new ones. My picture is next to “narc magnet” in the dictionary.
I have heard the term narcissism in passing which meant nothing to me. Two years ago, during an argument with an ex he told mine that ‘you are just as fucked up as I am, you are a narcissist’. I didn’t give the memory much thought until about 3 months ago and decided to research it and then discovered its true meaning. I knew there was something different from childhood and I had to learn to manage this ‘thing’. It takes awareness and discipline. I also get along with people from all walks of life because I mould myself to their experiences. I don’t believe in cheating and/or stealing because I simply have no use for it and I work hard and diligently for my achievements. I never use people. No need. I break up with people before it becomes cheating. I’m not convinced I am a narcissist and won’t label myself as such because I have feelings but just what I have been told by someone who is not a doctor. I don’t care either way. With pride, I consider myself a beacon of morality and ethics. I do know there is a thing that needs to be kept in check and it can hurt under restraint. In a sense like someone denying you an orgasm. I manage it very well.
I googled why is it hard to break a habit i.e stop contacting my ex, found out about hoovering and so much more
HG, my official answer was not an option, so I selected “knew about it before being entangled.” The first I heard of the disorder was in college psychology courses. We did not learn much detail about the disorder, but it was included and glossed over among other personality disorders. Thus, I knew about it’s existence from that point.
However, I did not think anyone I knew might be a narc until my therapist suggested my husband is one. I still don’t know if that’s accurate, and she’s only spent 10 minutes with him and going on what I’ve shared with her. He does have some strong narc traits. I think if he is one, he may be a lower mid-range.
And then there’s the online narc. A close friend suggested he was a narc, and I even read an online article that indicated he could be a psychopath, because he has some very sadistic ways. Many things I read confirmed he was a narc. However, it was your blog that really has educated me about the complexity of this disorder and how and why things are done. Thus, really there have been multiple sources, each expanding my awareness.
Meant to add… Thank you for opening my eyes, HG!
Pleasure.
Was watching religious themed videos, and saw one on the
‘jezebel spirit’.
Someone in the comments said it was narcissism or npd.
Interesting Brian, do you think it is?
I was watching a lot of videos from ‘good fight minstries’ that show quotes from musicians, actors and scriptwriters that suggest their performances are due to spiritual possession.
For an example just read all that weird stuff that Carlos Santana is always saying.
I talked to someone I know who said something weird happened with a ouija board when his nephews were playing with it. So, it’s possible but not 100% proven.
Brian
This was a topic of discussion with the man I was seeing. He was a “Christian ” man. I told him how I saw the world, which led me to a theory I am working on, Which really is my opinion. I am interested in your opinion on this, if you would not mind sharing. I do understand if you would rather not
Twilight
Please see my reply to HG on this page. I would like to hear your theories plz share?
Brian
I found your response to HG interesting.
My theory on this is
We are nothing more then energy in a physical form. Emotions are intense energy being projected from us, negative or positive.
So those that can “see” them long ago not understanding what they were seeing gave the negative ones the label demons.
The Jezebel spirit is nothing more then jealousy, envy, hatred, deception that is “felt” or “seen”. (Intense emotions)
It is said this spirIt hides with in another, so it is not detected.
Thanks, on the one hand the earthly explanation makes sense but other times I think there is something else going on because they feed off of negative emotions. Which, to me seems like it should be supernatural.
I believe there is a force that wants people to argue, hence the show-trials on TV.
The show-trials usually involve sensitive issues like race, O.j. Simpson and Trayvon martin. Mark Fuhrman.
Narcissists are always starting arguments, so it seems like negative emotions are being created.
If what you say is true about emotions being energy, is something feeding from them?
Brain
Do you mean is something feeding off of the narcissist?
Not sure what is going on. The way that the show-trials and the narcissists like to start arguments is weird though.
Fear can be the strongest motivator or that which holds one back.
fear is a strong motivator to continue in that which is known to work to achieve the results desired or stay within that which is not desire.
Even empaths follow a path they see yet are blind to.
The balance is off
I do not believe they originally were abusive, and we were not so docile.
In many situations one that can make those calculations and do what must done with out hesitation, yet they do not have the bedside manner that is needed to heal.
Have you ever just watch a fire?
A bedside manner suggests you mean the healing of others.
Someone who acts without hesitation would not be interested in healing others?
There is always one that protects and one that heals.
Things got twisted at some point in time
The narcissists were originally people who were supposed to protect?
I don’t know for sure, I do have a very vivid imagination thou.
What I do believe is men are wired differently to start with from women. They are more logical and respect and admiration is more “love” then affection and listening to which women attribute to love.
I have often wondered at times we started as hunter/gathers. Men were the ones who protected and hunted. If you have ever been hunting or even out in the wild you understand what it takes to do this. Now imagine the fearlessness one would need using nothing but a club, staff or spear. I would imagine they were respected and admire for this. It takes more logic to organize a hunt for it to be successful. Women were the caretaker of the home or medicine women.
Society has changed over time…
Views have changed
Abuse has twisted things.
This is just the opinion of my overactive imagination one day.
Totally agree Twilight..
Brian
I have just gotten a chance to read through the thread
Jezebel was a woman married to Ahab
She brought pagan beliefs which encouraged many negative emotions in the long run, her husband let her. I would say she was narcissistic just from what I have gathered.
IMO the emotions she caused jealousy, envy, anger, lies so on and so forth is why they say the spirit of Jezebel because it has been traced back to her bringing them to the forefront.
Now she has a spirit named after her…..
I was speaking with a man that went by Junius Sharp, this wasn’t his real name, he pointed me in a direction when he challenged my faith. He was an atheist, brilliant man, at the time HG wasn’t around just yet, he kept me from answering my ex, was helping me redirect my focus. We debated and spoke privately. When he challenged my faith he asked me if I had ever heard of The Council of Nicea 325AD. That was my starting point in helping me sort out what I believe.
He warned me not to become obsessed with looking for truth. I believe that sentence had a double meaning.
IMO the Bible has lost its original context. As newer versions are made scripture is being removed.
My ex use to call people sheeple, because they followed blindly.
We all have a path to awareness and our awakening. No one can force another down their path they must discover things on their own, to be able to embrace the power they hold within.
Twilight
Don’t mean to intrude, but I agree totally with you. I dont want to offend anyone, but as a linguist, it makes no sense to look for absolute truth in any written document that has been translated and edited multiple times.
Truth is always all around us and anyone, anything, any event can be the trigger that allows us to see it.
Windstorm2
I agree with your statement truth is all around, all it takes is an event, an opinion or something else that provides that ah ha moment. I never see anyone intruding only another perspective of things.
I am not a linguist yet I understand to take a written document and change it to another language you can lose context due to not having a word with the same meaning, using another changes the original context. To me that is a twist that is unintentional, yet necessary for translation.
That particular document thou has had cannons taken out by a certain religion, my only question is why? When one with holds knowledge it usually is to hold “power” or control over another, twist things to their views.
This is only one point in time that shows a twist in things.
Something happened between our “caveman” days and this point that upset the balance.
Anger, jealousy, envy, hatred these emotions and the energy behind them have been watered for generations no one knows why and I doubt ever will.
Anger breeds hatred, which fuels rage that demands vendetta.
Knowledge brings awareness, which brings healing. Not always in the way many expect, but in the way one acknowledges and accepts on their terms.
Just my opinion.
We were created to survive, genetically speaking it makes sense that it is embedded within us. Abuse in the child twisted the mind set, for both sides.
If you go back and look at people and line them up, you will find pairs.
Twilight, your words are always very deep. Thank you for sharing.
Chasm ravine cavern inner core outer core
You’re cracking me up tonight! 😝
Just demonstrating the depth of my talents
😄
Your words are very deep too Mr. Tudor. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to leave you out 💙❤💚💜
Your words are deep as well Mr. Tudor. 💙❤💚💜
oh and, what do you mean by the spirit hides within another?
From the way I understand is this is a spirit is the most powerful one, it consists of all envy, jealousy, anger, so on and so forth. It will hide within the spirit of jealousy and plant its seeds of anger and envy. You don’t see this because you are focused on being jealous over time anger starts to develop, then envy and strife.
This is one reason why I believe people say they are possessed by the Jezebel spirit.
I said the same thing differently on another thread, we are all born with the same seeds planted with in, what grows is what is watered.
Bottom line is the emotions that are cultivated, to which is just energy being projected.
Yes I believe we have the same seeds when born. I have experienced negative fuel a few times.
It is an excuse for not being held accountable for the emotions they feel and the actions that come from this.
The church took those of us that could “see” and “feel” to twist things to their advantage.
Brian, it might well be that that concept (Jeezebel) corresponds with NPD, but it did not convince me, what I’ve read about it. It is very much rooted in the patriarchal Jewish tradition, I’ve never heard a correspondence from before that time.
However: those demons are psychological, there is truth in it, how they are described but there are no outside spirits, demons, or whatever. Those are psychological concepts, they are all within.
Would love to see the recordings in the Vatican library on that topic though, haha, they are not public.
Ava101
The Vactican , it would be interesting to have access into their library.
Ive seen jezebel spirit come up and altho i would never fully rule out something that we may not understand as influencing behaviours i still think the root cause is abusive or dysfunctional parenting. Childrens minds are open canvases and the parent paints the picture of whats normal and in many cases it not normal and not healthy. A lot of those vids i find are victims wanting to find an easy answer and blame it on demonic forces when in actuality they dont want to dig deeper and learn about themselves and what it was about that persons dysfunction that pulled them in. A demonic force is seperate and requires no self reflection. If a spells cast over you you had no part in it at all.
Yes, it could be that Jezebel was merely a narcissist and anyone who acts like her is a narcissist too. no supernatural explanation needed.
Still would like to hear Twilight’s theory as I always have an open mind to new theories.
this why one must cast a protective shield, bubble, whatever you want to call it… around oneself. everything that manifests begins as a thought…. “shield up”, visualize it and it will manifest
and when all else fails, be well armed 🔫
It explain the difference between the jezebel spirit and the narcissist. First, i would like to know if you feel they operate in the physical or spiritual realm. Thank you
Brian,
I have researched the information in the past from what I have read it’s also part of the leviathan spirit. While there’s mention of the spirit of jezebel in the bible there’s several scriptures that reference this spirit. The information below is Google.
Leviathan is the name of a demon that is talked about throughout the scriptures. His main demonic influence is with spiritual pride and stopping Deliverance. The following scriptures describe Leviathan. The author statements are subjective I am providing this info for scripture reference only.
When you read the below Scripture, you will see why leviathan is such a tough demon to cast out.
Job 41 “Can you draw out the leviathan (the crocodile) with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord? 2) Can you put a rope into his nose? Or pierce his jaw through with a hook or a spike? 3) Will he make many supplications to you [begging to be spared]? Will he speak soft words to you [to coax you to treat him kindly]? 4) Will he make a covenant with you to take him for your servant forever? 5) Will you play with [the crocodile] as with a bird? Or will you put him on a leash for your maidens? 6) will traders bargain over him? Will they divide him up among the merchants? 7) Can you fill his skin with harpoons? Or his head with fishing spears? 8) Lay your hand upon him! Remember your battle with him; you will not do [such an ill-advised thing] again! 9) Behold, the hope of [his assailant] is disappointed; one is cast down even at the sight of him! 10) No one is so fierce [and foolhardy] that he dates to stir up [the crocodile]; who then is he who can stand before Me [the beast’s Creator, or dares to contend with Me]? 11) who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heavens is Mine. {Therefore, who can have a claim against God, god Who made the unmastered crocodile?] [Romans 11:35.] 12) I will not keep silence concerning his limbs, nor his mighty strength, nor his goodly frame. 13) Who can strip off [the crocodile’s] outer garment? [who can penetrate his double coat of mail?] Who shall come within his jaws? 14) Who can open the doors of his [lipless] mouth? His [extended jaws and bare] teeth are terrible round about. 15) his scales are [the crocodile’s ] pride, [for his back is made of rows of shields] shut up together [as with] a tight seal; 16) One is so near to another that no air can come between them. 17) they are joined one to another; they stick together so that they cannot be separated. 18) His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the [reddish] eyelids of the dawn. 19) Out of his mouth go burning torches, [and] sparks of fire leap out. 20) Out of his nostrils goes forth smoke, as out of a seething pot over a fire of rushes. 21) His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes forth from his mouth. 22) in [the crocodile’s] neck abides strength, and terror dances before him. 23) the folds of his flesh cleave together; they are firm upon him, and they cannot shake [when he moves]. 24) His heart is as firm as a stone, indeed, as solid as a nether millstone. 25) When [the crocodile] raises himself up, the mighty are afraid; because of terror and the crashing they are beside themselves. 26) Even if one strikes at him with the sword, it cannot get any hold, nor does the spear, the dart, or the javelin. 27) He counts iron as straw and bronze as rotten wood. 28) The arrow cannot make [the crocodile] flee; slingstones are treated by him as stubble. 29) Clubs [also] are counted as stubble; he laughs at the rushing and the rattling of the javelin. 30) His underparts are like sharp pieces of broken pottery; he spreads [grooves like] a threshing sledge upon the mire. 31) He makes the deep boil like a pot; he makes the sea like a [foaming] pot of ointment. 32) [His swift darting] makes a shining track behind him; one would think the deep to be hoary [with foam]. 33) upon earth there is not [the crocodile’s] equal, a creature made without fear and he behaves fearlessly. 34) He looks all mighty [beasts of prey] in the face [without terror]; he is monarch over all the sons of pride. [And now, Job, who are you who dares not arouse the unmastered crocodile, yet who dares resist Me, the beast’s Creator, to My face? Everything under the heavens is Mine; therefore, who can have a claim against God?]
Psalm 74:14 “You crushed the heads of Leviathan [Egypt]; You did give him as food for the creatures inhabiting the wilderness.”
Isaiah 27:1 “In that day [the Lord will deliver Israel from her enemies and also from the rebel powers of evil and darkness] His sharp and unrelenting, and strong sword will visit and punish leviathan the swiftly fleeing serpent, leviathan the twisting and winding serpent; and He will slay the monster that is in the sea.”
Strong’s Concordance (3882 and 3867) give this definition: A wreathed animal or serpent. The constellation of the dragon; also as a symbol of Bab. To join itself, to remain, cleave. The constellation of the dragon is known as Orion (3685) means to be fat, silly, foolish. Job 9:9; 38:31; Amos 5:8.
Job 41:34 says that Leviathan is monarch over all the sons of pride. People – especially pastors – who do not accept the truth about Deliverance has this demon. Leviathan stops spiritual growth in people. They cannot pray, read their bible, they go to sleep during services, mock or come against Deliverance and/or Deliverance ministries.
Experienced Deliverance ministers who have encountered Leviathan state that Leviathan is due to a family curse. Children who have learning disabilities, especially reading, is caused by this curse and the presence of Leviathan.
Painful stiffness in the neck and shoulders has been caused by Leviathan.
In dealing with Orion, Pleaides and Articus are two of the seven demons that are present with leviathan. Experienced Deliverance ministers have stated that when these two demons are dislodged Leviathan also comes out.
So many fairytales. I like HGs best. More realistic.
Ha ha, that is true.
When pedophiles steal the innocence of a child they leave spirits in that child, most people dont realize it so they are never delivered and forever live in bondage.. We try to fix things in the natural thats doesn’t work. If we want to be delivered we must operate and fight in the Spirit Realm. Rather you believe it is God, the Universe or whatever.
NarcAngel, I am sorry no one waa there to protect you from that evil soul. I hope you realize it wasn’t your fault or God’s theres a lot of evil in this world. But, the let the person that hirt you as a child continue to have a foothold over you. You are allowing him to win.
I dont know why anyone who mentions anything about God you feel the need to make a smart comment. Guess what, He loves you anyway.
Yolo
Im quite clear that it wasnt my fault and my abuser is dead with no foothold. I have not been ensnared since my childhood. Have you? Why did God not guide you? Dont bother answering as I wont debate nonsense about an abstract concept with you. God failed to make himself known to me when I thought he might exist and asked for him. Maybe you can talk to him about that. He denied a child help and so I decided he did not exist rather believe that he does, and is sadistic enough to watch while children suffer and he denies them. Rather giving of me I think. People have every right to believe for themselves and make their comments about God and so do I. I dont know why ‘they’ always seem so threatened and think their comment should prevail as the truth and mine should be considered “smart”. Rather Narcky of them. God is the ultimate illusion so its no wonder those who believe in him fall so hard for Narcs and why theyre targeted. Easy pickins.
He loves me anyway? If he exists (and he doesnt for me), good for him. I dont turn my back on children and those who suffer and I am very much in the flesh and worth loving.
Thanks for the info, if you just take the biblical quotes it seems like God is describing a fearsome monster and saying that you should respect him,,,because he is the only one who can defeat leviathan.
I don’t know why people talk about a leviathan spirit when that isn’t really mentioned.
Maybe they were doing an exorcism and the person said’ I am leviathan’?
Yes, He’s referencing a beast with 6 arms that carries various spirits. I grab that from Google I looked back it’s from demon busters. I didn’t pay much attention to the content. I knee the scriptures were correct because I read Job. Its been awhile but I learned about Leviathan Spirit while researching the connection between Jezebel and narcissism. From what I recall that spirit is more prevalent amongst pastors and churches.
Brian,
I just found out as most things it’s based on the translator interpretation. Strangely, I am sitting in front of a cemetery responding. I read the bible and pray the holy spirit will reveal the trurmeaning to me. The bible has been translated in several versions to meet man’s objective. Here’s another article
———————————————
LEVIATHAN IS NOT A DEMON, BUT A PRINCIPALITY
———————————————
When we read Job 41 and other passages that we will look at in this teaching, it will be clear that unlike popular belief that this Leviathan was a dinosaur, or as is taught by others that Ps 74:14 and in Job 41:1 is speaking of Leviathan “as a large sea monster of unknown identity,” I believe that this creature is more than Ogo Pogo or some Lock Ness monster.
Leviathan is a demon principality not just a demon spirit. Lets look at a few verses;
Job 41:1 “Can you draw Leviathan out with a hook?”
Job 41:10 “No one is so fierce that they would dare stir him up.”
Job 41:26-32 “If one lay at him with the sword, it cannot avail; nor the spear, the dart, nor the pointed shaft. He counteth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; sling stones are turned with him to rubble. Clubs are counted as stubble; he laugheth at the rushing of the javelin. His under parts are like sharp potsherds; he spreadeth as it were a threshing wain upon the mire. He maketh the deep to boil like a pot; he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
It’s possible but I just see ‘loch ness monster’ vibes from the text. Have you read the book of Enoch? It explicitly mentions demons/spirits but only in one sentence that I can find.
Is the Lochness Monster a Narcissist 😜
I wonder which Cadre 🤔
H.G. next book should be How to survive living with a sociopath/narc. The idea came to me while parked in front of the cemetery.
Thank you Yolo, Defender is based on those lines, thank you for the suggestion.
‘Escape’ has some advice like that, I recently learned.
I already knew about narcissism. The reality of it is much different than I understood prior to being ensnared and finding HG.
I was still involved with him (a sociopath) when I saw something on Facebook, I don’t even remember which blog I read it on. It said something like “12 signs that you’re dating a sociopath”. Suddenly everything made sense and clicked into place. Finally I had an answer to all the madness. Since then I have read every scrap of information I can on the subject. I stumbled upon you, HG, on a YouTube video and was mesmerized by your voice. I don’t look at many other people’s blogs much anymore besides yours as I know it is coming from the source itself. Why go anywhere else when you have the best, right? 😉 Thank you for helping all of us understand and stay armed.
It took years of abuse, and therapy to shed light on the issues..but ultimately your blog which was referred to by my relative opened my eyes to what NPD really is and what it looks and feels like. Most people can’t honestly understand NPD, friends would never understand..offering advice and words of hope when there is no hope for my narc…just a dead end and thank god I know now what it is and can seize the power. Thanks HG.
Pleasure.
I asked a close friend what she thought about my husband cutting me off from sex. She said it sounds like punishment. So I looked up “denying sex as punishment”. That opened the flood gates.
I had heard of narcissism in a therapy session with my husband once but it was not expanded on and I didn’t focus on that as part of our therapy. I then dated someone who I noticed was struggling and he didn’t make sense to me when he tried explaining himself. I suggested therapy. He went to a behavioral therapist and it was revealed to him there what was going on with him. He then realized why he had always had issues with interpersonal relationships and admitted to me he didn’t think he ever loved me and had probably been using me all along. This came from him trying to understand what he was learning in therapy. He felt he had to tell me but he did lash out and push me away during this process. I then began to study it because I cared for him and wanted to understand his perceptions and to heal myself. The loss was a great loss but I gained clarity as he did himself. It has been a long process but worth it.
My narcissist is also my high school sweetheart. I asked him to be my date for our school’s Sadie Hawkins dance when we were fourteen. He did not seek me out. I accept the blame for that choice. Reflecting back to that time, I do not recall that he exhibited many of the behavioral traits commonly associated with narcissism. He was a smart, good looking boy and he knew it. And there were times when I would not hear from him for days. But I always attributed that to our age, a lack of resources and distance as we did not live close to one another. He was never abusive. In fact, he was kind and loving. Protective. Overall, the relationship was good. But it all came to an end when I moved out of state my senior year and we went our separate ways. That beautiful boy played a starring role in several of the sweetest moments of my youth. It wasn’t until he reappeared into my life that I noticed the changes in his behavior. They were staggering. I knew something was very wrong but couldn’t put my finger on what it was about him that was so different. I turned to the internet where I located a number resources, including this blog. I am so grateful for the information I found that helped me to identify the issue and learn to cope with it. Thank you.
You are welcome.
HG, do you have any articles or books on what happens during adolescence or that life changing moment when narc/paths change from sweet and innocent to what they are now? Meatballhead’s post just reminded me how my latest narc (the only one I’ve “loved”) always claimed there was a life changing moment for him and how he was sweet and innocent before.
I doubt he was, it must’ve always been there – I have witnessed my own son’s development – he seems to have been born with complete lack of empathy, over sensitivity (that shyness and lack of confidence that quickly turned into over-confidence, lies and grandiosity), punishment has no effect on him, he’s manipulative and enjoys breaking rules, causing others emotional pain and creating chaos, and his desire to win and deceive is incomprehensible.
Even so, something must happen at some point that changes “your kind” into what you are now.
Your kind are flowers or a myth. That was all I knew about narcissism until a Google search this past February.
I wrote 4 e-mails to Ask Amy/Meredith about narcissism; two were completely ignored. Finally, this morning I saw the N-word in the paper! I almost fell out of my chair. It was FIRST time I ever saw the word “narcissist” in an advice column. I also wrote a Letter to the Editor re: NPD that was published town wide, and, I submitted written testimony to one state Representative and two state Senators about NPD. Of course, I mentioned you HG and your blog.
Thank you K.
Welcome! It is the least I could do; you have been very helpful. And I am not done yet, not even close. The curriculum is in the works at the high school level.
I’m just curious. For what purpose did you submit information to State Reps and Senators?
Hello, NotinKansas. I wrote written testimony In support of Senate Bill S.295: to update laws to break child sexual abuse cycle in schools, youth organizations and organized sports, including private (catholic) institutions.
Hello HG. My spark of curiosity occurred when my ex finally left after a heated affair. He was a serial cheater and an alcoholic to boot. We were married for 23 years. It took me quite a while to hammer the thought of my ex to be such a callus creator. I repeated with a second narc, but thanks to you, I got out of my second mess within two months. The entire time I spent with the second narc, ‘that radio show guy’, I was in heavy study of your work. Thank you.
You are welcome.
I didn’t know what was going on. Was trying to figure things out when I stumbled on an ig post about narc behavior when the light bulb went on. Started to connect the dots after that it all started to make sense.
It took meeting a mid range narc for me to become aware of the fact that I had been attracting and fraternising with the greater narcs, one way or another, all of my life. The narc penny never dropped during all of my time with the greater narcs…..it took the sulking….silent treatment….cold fury and passive aggressive behaviour from the mid range narc before I looked it up on the internet…..found your blog….and the murky waters are now crystal clear. Thank you.
You are welcome.
Lowering my “narc” standards was in fact my saving grace……it only took 3 months for me to figure out the mid range specimen……however the greater ones went completely undetected for decades……
My first encounter with my narcissist was my mother. The first time I suspected something was terribly wrong with her was when I was about eleven. I was the eldest daughter, middle child and the scapegoat. The first time “narcissism” came into play was when I was going through counseling at 30. Therapy was an eye-opener. My brother, uncle, grandfather and great-grandfather all fit the criteria for NPD but there were no shrinks around to diagnose. I was surrounded by them and life was a continual battle. By this time I was in therapy, I was married to one. I thought life with a narcissist was normal. I still have problems being attracted by narcissists, as if I could ever win their love and approval.
The narc is my life now, confuses me more. He will apologize after weeks of the silent treatment for the way he treats me, and over a week reverts to his usual selfish grandious unempathetic self. He uses me to cheer him up when no body is giving him all the attention he needs to feel like he’s somebody and not a nobody.
In my next life, I hope there are no narcissists.
NotinKansas,
Wow, I can totally relate. All my life I was tortured by them and always thought it was me and I have had the same problems being attracted to them. I always saw all of the signs and questioned the behaviors but I have never had a thorough, well communicated explanation until I came across HG’s website.
Oh. Just to clarify. We are not partners anymore. I got a four-month silent treatment after telling him I was dating other men. He’s a strange friend who seems to needs a ego boost at time, and I’m the one he talks to. I know he does the same with others. Just the way it is and I don’t expect anything from him.
I researched a particular behaviour but was more for my feelings…I wondered why it seemed impossible for me to get over move on from someone that had hurt me. I didn’t understand why I was having so trouble moving on and why nothing made sense from the relationship I had put so much into… it all made sense then..thank you!
Silent treatment precipitated my finding out about narcissism. What grown man gives someone the silent treatment??! I googled “why did the schizoid stop talking to me?” Malignant narcissism came up. Suddenly everything made sense!