Poll : How Did You First Find Out About Narcissism?
Hello, this time I would like you to share your experience of how you first came to know about narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder. Did you happen to know about the disorder prior to your entanglement with one of our kind? Did you talk to someone about the odd behaviours you were experiencing with your intimate partner or family member and they suggested what that person may well be? Perhaps you could not work out why you get receiving silent treatments or why your brother went into sudden rages and your internet research eventually brought you to the door of narcissism.
Thereafter you will no doubt have filled your boots reading, watching and learning from various sources, but that is for a different poll. Today is about what caused that light bulb to switch on that very first time?
Please do expand on your experience and perhaps include where you went down the wrong route before learning the reality, in the comment section.
Thank you for participating.
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My therapist informed me, but, provided a vague definition. I started gathering information, and researching what seemed like a psychological thriller. It was not until I found HG did puzzling subside and the pieces started come together. Unfortunately, once all the pieces were put together I wasn’t prepared for horrid portrait.
Thanks HG… I am going to be the bigger person moving forward. (Figuratively) if possible😊
I went from the most interesting,beautiful woman on Earth to a blubbering 87 lb. suicidal heap of craziness in about Five years. I was discarded for one year. I became healthy and happy. Four days before our divorce…. The great Hoover happened.I came back thinking it was all ” my fault”. Fast forward Three years and Five discards. Today, I would almost Swear ” you are my husband “. 3 weeks into no contact… You might have saved my life.
Tammy Greer
My heart goes out to you a million times! I am sorry that you have had to endure so much! Thank god you are safe. This is such a good place to come and talk or vent or whatever you need to do to assist in your recovery.
First a friend of mine said the word “codependent” relating to him and his wife. Then I realised that I was getting the silent treatment which lead me to passive aggressive behaviour where I was stuck for quite a while. I thought if I praise him often enough that things will change for the better but it did not which kept me thinking. It took me almost a year to jump forward to narcissism and finding this blog answered all my questions, so I never had the urge to comfront him about it. I did send him one of the posts from here, so he knows I know. He did always tell me that he was different. Now I know why.
I had heard the term narcissist before I met my ex. My understanding of the term was very basic. They were people who were conceited and loved themselves…alot! That was the extent of my understanding. I didn’t know it was a disorder or mental illness.
My ex exhibited almost all of the typical mid range narcissistic behaviors throughout our relationship. One characteristic he dwelled on more than the others was how handsome, strong, smart (not so much), talented and charismatic he thought he was.
I had no explanation for his other behaviors, but I sure was getting sick of hearing his blow hard monologues about how great he was, I decided to Google narcissist.
I almost fell off my chair. The skies opened up and there was sudden complete relief as I read a description of my ex down to the smallest details. I FINALLY HAD AN ANSWER! I was close to being committed (voluntarily) at this time, so I was happy to realize that I was OK and he was just a dick face narc.
My brother told me first, which is kind of weird because he is a flying Monkey, he sent me an article, I don’t think he gets the big picture, but then lots and lots of books.
I read an article of silent treatment and read that it was frequently employed by narcissists. I suspected it after the first six months but then I thought I was making a rash judgement. A year or so later I realized that the ex exhibited many of the other characteristics of NPD.
“Blocking” someone in those days was as simple as picking up the receiver on the rotary phone, and placing it on the table:)
Star
Are those Dachshunds in the pic? And yours?
Yes Narc angel:)it was a picture of my daschounds. A mom and her son that I adopted that were puppy mill victims:( love them almost as much as I love my children. They have come a long way since I first got them. We all kind of healed each other( yes sounds weird, but so true)
Star
I had 2. One passed over a yr ago at age 15. The one left is now 15 and slowing. I named them Frank and Beans (hope no one I know is here ’cause what are the odds of that lol?). They were (are) my comfort. Animals are the only things I felt never failed me in that.
I’m afraid you’re going to tell me I’m a narcissist. ..
I was with a narc for three years. I had no idea what NPD was at that time but noticed the similarities he shared with my mother. I kept breaking up with him but let him hoover me many times thinking he truly loved me *sigh and eyes rolling up*. I had a very short relationship (1 month) with another narc after I broke up with the first one for good (and he had his new IPPS). I was in very bad shape emotionally after these two relationships (plus my divorce). I went to visit my mother right after the break-up with the second N. We had a major clash (long story) and it was then that I realized my mother did not love me and that I did not want to have contact with her anymore. I had had enough of her abuse. I did not contact her at all for some years, then I had very limited contact. It was a few days after the clash with my mother that I heard someone speak about emotional abuse. The person was misusing the term but that was not important: these two words resonated a lot with me. I then started searching on the internet about it and found a site about narcissistic mothers. Bingo! I knew right away this was what I had been putting up with all my life and that I had reproduced in my relationships.
Hg,
na kojim mjestima ti pronalazis cure?
In the hunting grounds, see Sitting Target.
Indy
Hello 😊🌹🌼🌻
and .. totally agree with you.⚘
At first I thought the tHiNg had bi-polar disorder. An internet questinaire said no. At the very end of the relationship, I googled words like rage, pathological lying, intimidation and others, which led to the list of NPD traits. Sure enough, the tHing had 8/9 of that list so my studies took me to videos, reading, comparisons to other peoples stories, and then HG. HG being THE most imformative for me. Thank god for everything I have learned and been taught. It changed my life!
I thought it was Bi Polar as well before I investigated further.
Patricia yeah…the mood chanes I think.
In reality after studying, theyre not even close. At least bipolar can be treated ey…
I first heard the word in my late teens. I was told I was one and to go seek help. I went see someone and I told MY story and the therapist said I was fine.
I have heard this word many times since, but never truly understood it until the past two years. A friend handed me a piece of paper that had “gas lighting” written on it. It led me here.
Technically, I first found out about narcissism as a child but I’m not sure in what context first. Whether it was mythology or because of daffodils (they’re called Narzisse in German, narcisse in French, narczis in Hungarian) and I always had a small obsession with etymology, I can’t remember. But that was just some very vague knowledge. I really found out about NPD this May when I found out my ex had been cheating like a maniac and I googled things like “he cheated and lied” for several hours. Kind of wish someone had taught me about this in school instead of sine curve and other stuff I can’t actually use.
Hi anonymous…i completely agree!!! Put narcissism education and psychology classes dealing with self esteem, boundaries and cognitive skills in classrooms. We need that more than ever. Narcissism is on the rise.
Totally. Nobody warns you when it comes to people like narcs. Parents tell you to beware of men who promise you candy and dolls, but nobody tells you to beware of the man who promises you the world. I was 40 (!!!) when I discovered this, and I’m not exactly uneducated or uninterested in things and I thirst for knowledge. I knew about narcissistic parents, but it never even really occurred to me that romantic partners could also be “affected”.
My answer: “I researched a particular behaviour on the internet which led me to the subject of narcissism.”
The first time I came across the term NPD was when searching on the internet about my in-law’s cruel, arrogant, patronizing and controlling behaviour several years ago. It was something I had not experienced before, even though my parents were narcissists.
After researching on the internet about my mother-in-law’s behaviour, I found out that she probably had a BPD and a NPD. A couple of years later my husband told me she was also an alcoholic. At that time there was not so much information about NPD available online so I went to the local library and started reading all about narcissism and other personality disorders. This was also the opportunity to become more self-aware and to learn about my own problems as an Acon as well.
Although I joined some online groups and read several books and articles about Cluster B disorders and abusive people in all these years, it was not until someone made me aware of this blog that I found answers to questions I had been asking for so long.
NarcAngel
“There’s only one NarcAngel” should be your name.
DW🐾 x
DebbieWokf,
I like that name, There is only One NarcAngel!!! So true❤️
NarcAngel,
Don’t give fuel to those that hurl insults at HGs readers by making your name about them. There are other fish to “fry” lol 😂
You are the incomparable one and only NArcAngel!
❤️💛💚💙
Indy and NarcAngel
I totally agree. NarcAngel totally fits your superhero identity – ever-vigilant defender against narc injustice!
Heard the term narcissism as a teenager, when discussing my father’s cruelty with the family, but back then detailed information was non-existent and we scrabbled in the dark. Roll forward many years I became entangled with Narcypants a few years ago. I recognised things Narcy said and did that mirrored my father’s behaviour all those years ago. That’s when I mentioned his behaviour to a close friend. Turned out she’d been in a relationship with a narccisist and suggested I do an internet search which led me to many excellent sites. I then found a narc survivors fb page where an enlightened administrator put up HG’s posts. The rest is history…
Thank goodness for my friend, the internet and and most important of all, thank goodness for HG. I’m not just learning about NPD, I’m learning about myself.
HG, thank you for all your invaluable help, and getting me out of a recent sticky patch.
You are welcome Scout.
the link Midnight Puma posted. I found this on it “PhoenixRising
JULY 27, 2017 AT 11:39 PM
Both my mom and step dad are narcs (yep, lucky lucky me). They are either both lessers or maybe a lesser and a mid range- I haven’t quite had the energy to suss all that out just yet. Even though I felt I should know the signs by now, I was duped by someone who appears to be an extremely charismatic and charming greater narc this last December. I am currently in the midst of dealing with my situation with him (I believe I am an IPSS: he has a NIPS). Can’t thank you enough, HG, for all of the education your articles have provided me this last week. It is difficult, but necessary reading. I now know I am a Super Empath who is about to go Super Nova on his ass for the second time.” Sounds a lot like ED doesn’t it?
https://narcsite.com/2017/07/27/poll-how-did-you-first-find-out-about-narcissism/
I have directed many people to HG on Quora. I find that helping others understand that nobody will understand what happened except somebody who has been there does a lot toward helping me regain some of my self worth. There are a lot of people here who DO understand and HG tell it like it is in a way nobody else has been able to for me. Most people drone on and on about the textbook explanations. NOT helpful and very boring. HG is anything but boring. Watching him work in here reminds me that I still have a long way to go to rid myself of the attraction to his kind.
Thank you MMT.
You are absolutely right MMToy!
I think it is reckless of some of these other sites to say they have knowledge of NPD when most of them give outdated information that can be translated to whatever they want it to be. Regardless of the bland milk-toast message of the day it always ends up being a hate chant for the Narcissist. This is neither helpful or uplifting for anyone concerned. As a matter of fact, it left me wondering if I was actually dealing with a Narcissist or something else..
I feel that if people were actually seeking to understand and heal from this type of abuse they would want to know the how’s and why’s of the person suffering with NPD, because it is a very complex disorder. The Narcissist is not the only one to blame for the toxic relationship, the red flags are very present and we are the ones who choose to ignore them for many of our own reasons (which, too, are complex).
Knowledge is power and this is a place of empowerment. I will not go anywhere else for my education and recovery.
For me a comment on a website I was posting on Post Discard. Just the one comment from 100s of others, that was the start of my journey for answers ..
I spent weeks, months even scouring websites, reading & trying to put the pieces together but nothing was making any sense..
I didn’t know that the unexplained absences were ” silent treatments ” that the violence was fury.,or at that point I was being being smeared & triangulated on a massive scale, I was completely overwhelmed with it all .
Then BINGO .. I woke up one morning did a search & found my way here.. I spent hours reading,soaking up the information and asking HG 100’s ( well maybe not that many ) questions and it all became clear . ..
HAPPY to say I can sniff out some narcs now without even meeting them in person & only recently foiled an attempt by a somantic trying to ” trick” me into a ” surprise ” ( as if) meeting because I’d called him out for what he is.
CHEERS HG .. you’ve saved me more than once being ensnared again, I can never thank you enough .
NNS x
You are welcome.
And now you’re NOT so sad anymore!!! I think you’ve been around as long as me too! Always nice to hear from you!! Hugs!
I had already been looking up certain behaviours on the Internet and had contacted Women’s Aid over something.. I was directed to look up Coercive Behaviour.. it led me to narcissism. I then found some other sites dedicated to narcissism survival which were very useful and initially helpful. They were supportive understanding and comforting. Something I very much needed I was so emotionally bruised and battered. Then I found a comment with the little heart emblem/avatar with ‘Evil’ in it on utube.. 😊😘
I clicked on that and found You HG.
The first YouTube video recording of yours that listened to shocked and terrified me! 🙈😦😮😣.
. It was The Seven Statements of Cessation.
It was the beginning…✌ the true gateway to clarity.
HG your site has not only helped me in the present time but it will affect my future for the better in so many ways. Thank you again for this valuable work. and there is a lot of it in different places.
Your work is a tremendous help because a lot of it is quite scary and frightening and shocking and it really is the best medicine. Honestly I can’t thank you enough for what your work has meant to me.
I am grateful to others too as is fabulous when people understand and comfort of course it is but there is a massive difference hearing about abuse from “a doer” in all the terrible ways… it shatters the disbelief finally. More enlightening.
Your work seems to get a hold of me by the scruff of the neck and give me a good shake..a mental “STOP, LISTEN…ACT”.
It is because when hearing about abuse from people who just dicuss it, one does not always believe these things can be true, even when experiencing it and seeing it with your own eyes you just do not believe it… as you teach HG we have so much self doubt we look to ourselves for the fault all the time and try to fix that, but when you hear it from ‘a Doer” who actually does do these abuses, it is then that disbelief is really shattered and one can start to learn to get free properly.
Recognition understanding and comfort is wonderful but it only takes a person so far.. with narcissistic abuse it is needed to go all the way and that’s exactly what your work does HG.. it takes the searcher all the way… beginning… middle and end.. no stone is left unturned.
All the answers are here.
It is more than just explaining, it is the way that you, HG, give us the instructions as to the best way to move forward and your own unique style of presentation, the fact that you are there for us. You are honest with us here. Is it any wonder that we become Tudorites.
🛡♛
PS. Instead of “M”, my nickname in here should be “Finding HG”.
Good call.
Theres another NA so maybe its time to change my name. And since someone called us guppies, maybe…………Finding Meano?
You are always welcome to change your name but remember the name ED OT is already taken.
Do you care to share with the class what ED OT stands for?
Work it out.
NarcAngel,
Whispers into ear: Say the first two letters individually and sound out the last two…say in an Austrian accent, like the terminator lol.
Indy
( shrugs)
Nope. I got Buckwheat. ED OTAY.
You crack me up! Ahahahaha
NA,
Just doing my flying guppy, lieutenant monkey business. I gotta rep to live up to.
Given that I got military rank, I suppose I should march off somewhere and find some trumpet players. I do love some Miles Davis.
Have a wonderful summer weekend up there!
Indy into Jazz
At least you have a purpose. I’m just a clueless guppy. Just sayin’ lol.
Indy
Nevermind. I got it. Was looking too hard for something else.
I liked the guppy video.
Amused
Well, I guess we will have only one NA from now on here. Narc Angel is a strong woman. A little harsh at times but I think intelligent enough to recognise it and correct herself, (except for in the case of Giulia who I would like to come back – Giulia if you read this riitorna).
I know I do not have all the information though.
Lou
I read a comment by Guila in the last few days so shes around. What is it that you perceive I should correct myself with her? I only remember a post regarding God coming up (again) with her but I dont remember the details. It sounds like you hold me responsible for her being absent. Do you believe that is the case? If so, why? Im asking sincerely and not out of anger.
lol Clarece
A clueless guppy, no
A fierce beauty guppy with awareness, yes!!!
MLA and Twilight,
A lovely graceful fish, with hypnotic fins that play in the light from the sun above.
You have purpose, MLA, you know this😊 To rise above and not acknowledge the smears with mud in return speaks of your integrity and goodness. You are mature and make requests for smears to stop, only to be met with what is expected of such ilk.HG has taught us well, let’s swim together all of us, with fins and snouts high ❤️💙💚💜💛
Indiglowing Beta Fish
Indy
Love it!
Hehe Look up Neolamprologus pulcher.
Electric blue.
Clarece
I do hope you were not offended by my reference of guppy, I have been thinking about my comment and remember some facts on some of the fish I have kept in the past.
I believe Neolamprologus pulcher is more fitting for empaths if we are to be compared to a fish. Just my opinion. Especially after the teachings of HG.
Good gracious no, I’m not offended Twilight. I’ve been amused by the whole guppy thread and would rather be a sweet guppy than a piranha.
Clarece
Thank you, I had a moment of over thinking.
Yes guppies are sweet and beautiful.
My thoughts were running more on being a guppy over being a bottom feeder.
I agree with being amused.
Hi Twilight,
Those are pretty fish! And spunky ones 😊Are they all rather tough fish as a breed, do you know? I had a friend that had an African ccichlid and we named him killer because every fish we would add to the tank, the next morning would mysteriously disappear. We had a theory, the cichlid had a little cave in his aquarium to hide in. We think he dragged his new friends in the cave and ate them. 😂 He grew rather big.
Hi Indy
We didn’t seem to have any problems, we had two that paired up and let’s just say they ruled the tank. I felt bad for the others and made that tank strictly for them, Territorial and very protective of not only their fry but other (same species) fry. Generations would “help”. It was those I thought of after reading your comment. For the most part very peaceful fish, just protective of their family.
Then in another tank
We had an Amphilophus labiatus (Red Devil) that MF, it took two of us to clean the tank. He would attack you. Absolutely gorgeous, yet didn’t matter he would attack the glass as you walked by or stick a body part inside. With this one we put an enormous crayfish ( 4 inch fish and if I remember correctly 6 inch crayfish) any how his bad little self left the pinchers and had a very satisfying look and fat belly in the morning. It was then he owned a 45 gallon tank to himself.
Sounds like your friend had Mr, RDs sibling. We couldn’t even put others (same species) with him. He took aggressive to an entire new level.
You are our Fierce Beta Fish, Indy. I have purpose most days anyways. lol. Thank you though.
Very triggered this weekend. JN’s B-Day is tomorrow. Our teams, Indians and Sox are playing, so I’m remembering lots of unpleasant memories so I don’t get sentimental. Arrrggghhh
I will be thinking about you Clarece and hoping your team kicks his team’s butt! Go team Empath !!! ✨🌟💛💙💜💚❤
Haha Thanks Love! In this case it’s Go Tribe for Cleveland Indians. It’s been a tie score for the last two innings tonight. They’ll play again tomorrow too.
Good to hear, Clarece, that you’re for the right team!
Woo hoo! Please don’t laugh… Are we talking about baseball? And if so, why do they play multiple times?
Hi Love! In a nutshell, the baseball season runs April thru Sept., with World Series then in Oct. Each team plays 162 games. The teams play a series of usually 3 games, sometimes 4, to line up where teams will be traveling to each week and so equal time is spent on the road and homefield games.
World Series, that always amuses me. I like baseball though and has contributed to English phraseology – step up to the plate, knock it out of the park.
Why yes HG, it can translate in other areas too, such as did you get to 2nd or 3rd base on your date? Or get a home run?
Good points.
Wooo That’s a lot of games!! Thanks Clarece. My coworker is a huge Cubs fan. I only know the team because he has a big foam hand with 1 finger up in the office. That team is near you, right? Oh and he’s in a fantasy baseball league. It is serious business apparently. Who would have known?!
Clarece
Which team is yours?
Cleveland
Hi MLA,
Yes those are hard to get through. I have faith in you. Do you have distractions set up? We call this in DBT “coping ahead”. Can you do some self pampering? Mani, massage, margaritas(Indys favorite, the MMM)? MMM for MLA? I wish we had little chat boxes here sometimes for such times. I’m gonna do a partial MMM tomorrow myself. Any plans with your daughter? Or friends?
Hang in there, you are doing great. Check in if you need to.
Fierce Fish Fight Ferociously!!!🐬🐡🐟🐠🦈
All others can F off. 🙌🏻👊🏼
*sips my margarita* cheers!
Hopefully, his team lose. 😊 Wow, both could be triggers for him too. Let’s hope you don’t enter his 6th sphere ( guessing). Hoover time…😯😔 wishing you strength and encouragement.
P.S. I know it’s much harder to avoid a narc who isn’t nasty and disrespectful.
Hi Narc Angel,
I am glad to read that Giulia is still around. I remember her posting something about trees and fruits according to the bible and you replying a little too harsh, in my perception. I did not read any comments from her anymore and assumed she had been hurt by your comment to her.
I was with a Greater once-I now realise it. I can officially call him “the biggest love of my life”, although I don’t feel it any longer. Funnily enough, I have many good memories of him-or so I chose. I thought he was a schizoid personality, but a therapist back then told me that he sensed narcissistic traits, from what I was telling him. After the Greater, I fell in love with an ex school mate. Because of his behaviour,I was led to articles in the internet and one lady’s article on borderlines made me think he was a borderline (he was, as I know now, a victim Mid-Range). Then, I met the last, most horrible one.I was sure he was a borderline too, I had become an “expert on borderlines”, I thought, and I was able to detect their behaviours (yes, obviously). I did not see a connection with narcissism, because he was not openly bragging about himself (of course not, he is a Mid-Ranger as well),and basically, I did not want to accept he was a Narcissist. Because, you see, with borderlines you think there might be some dim hope. With Narcissists there is none. Once I called him a borderline and since then he did his best to persuade me he was indeed one (how clever of him, really). I went back to therapy, with a different therapist. He suggested to me that the guy I was seeing was not a borderline but a narcissist. I did not want to believe it, but I started searching in the internet. Then I found HG, and everything was absolutely clear. About my present and, oh God, about my past.
During the discard, he got a book (maybe yours!) and shared his tendency to compartmentalize. It happened after he cheated on me, and told me I wasn’t religiously in line. While he never admitted to being a narc, I used key words to find him out.
I searched on the internet. Something along the lines of “My husband says he’s God” and it led me directly to NPD. It explained everything about him, lol. The saddest thing to me, though, is I now realize that all those horrible stories of abuse by his mother were true. I had always thought he was exaggerating or misinterpreting but now I know it was all true. I hope that bitch is burning in hell because she utterly ruined what would have been an incredibly exceptional person.
So now it’s official – HG holds the title for my favorite narcissistic psychopath and the only one with this amount of insight that I have ever come across.
Clap Clap…HG…Clap Clap 😉
Well duh…my name speaks for itself lol!
At first, I thought my ex was a sociopath. I then kept saying to myself that label didn’t exactly fit.
One day (probably about mid-way into the relationship) I said “There is a serious discrepancy between who you think you are and who you really are.”
I then began to play with the idea of narcissistic personality disorder. I shrugged it off for a little then began to look further into it again b/c remembered there were different types of narcissism.
I left my loser of an ex and kept searching for more information and stumbled upon this blog.
I started reading it and as a mental health professional my mouth dropped and I had to continue reading….
The rest is history.
Initially when looking up why my ex-husband behaves the way he does. But I only took this all seriously when another narc told me about it and gave me an experience of a lifetime with golden period, devalue and discard. He’s probably just HG trying to promote his blog.
In terms of going down the wrong route, I guess I initially thought my ex husband had depression. As for the narc I dated, I wondered if he was bipolar, despite him telling me exactly what he is. It was probably the only truth that he’s told me and I chose not to believe him.
I have always been an empathic person and I have always suffered in relationships. I didn’t understand why when I was so very ill I was dumped by someone I loved dearly it was hard to process but I asked myself the question what’s wrong with him for the first time in my life instead of asking myself what’s wrong with me. I then went in search of the answer on the internet and found articles on Narcissism and the my whole life fell into place I got many answers to questions I’d not yet asked and I finally understood what had happened to me in my life was never really about me but about those others. I was enlighten and happy with self for the first time in my life. As a mature person I’d say to others its never to late to find yourself and be happy!
Both my mom and step dad are narcs (yep, lucky lucky me). They are either both lessers or maybe a lesser and a mid range- I haven’t quite had the energy to suss all that out just yet. Even though I felt I should know the signs by now, I was duped by someone who appears to be an extremely charismatic and charming greater narc this last December. I am currently in the midst of dealing with my situation with him (I believe I am an IPSS: he has a NIPS). Can’t thank you enough, HG, for all of the education your articles have provided me this last week. It is difficult, but necessary reading. I now know I am a Super Empath who is about to go Super Nova on his ass for the second time.
In college as a psychology student, actually did my midterm on Cluster B personality disorders (as they were classified in the DSM IV). However, none of the books available at the time educated me as well as experience and your blog/books.
Thank you Carla, much appreciated.
Disposable discarded disvauled. Criticised controlled uncompromising. All the C’s & D’s. HG – it took ten years to work it out. I’m very angry.
After seeing his mask fall and not knowing what I was staring at in front of me, watching him collapse was bizarre. so I did some searching on Google which led me to the topic of narcissistic personality disorder and eventually this site.
Great name.
OMG I freakin love your name!
Two thumbs up – I like you new friend! lol
After being discarded so ruthlessly, I had to find answers for my own closure. That’s when I discovered Narcissism on the internet, which ultimately led me to your blog. The best blog ever! 💘
Fucking a BH!
My story is a bit otherworldly. I was a psychology major in college and I first learned about it through my studies . This means nothing of course because unless you experience it first hand you will never get it on a deep and penetrating level.
So I am very much in touch with my inner voice and one day after trying to understand what was happening. I heard two words “personality disorder.” Although I still had much to learn this was the beginning of my journey.
After that when I was on the computer going down the list of cluster B personality ddisorders and I clicked on narcissism ….I gotbthe chills from head to toe and the voice said that is the one.
I was never that shell again even though there was much more hell he inflicted upon me.
My first serious boyfriend/fiancee was a true narcissist but not until several years after breaking up with him and going through nursing school/psych rotation did I discover it was a true personality (disorder) and then yes, I could not read enough about it narcissism). I thought it was all me.
I actually did not realize I was entangled with one in my last relationship and most of my previous ones until I figured out I was codependent about a year and a half ago after a brutal breakup. Reading about codependency made me realize that I have been attracted to narcissists for most of my adult life. At first I did not think the last SO was one until finding HG and reading about the Mid-Range. Eye-opening….especially the stuff about silent treatments. And I now realize I was in “devaluation” the last six months of our relationship. HG’s writings have been extremely valuable to me in my “recovery”. More so than any so-called professional I have consulted with or read.
I put third party, because it sort of involves an article on my newsfeed but also a friend telling me by posting that article after listening to everything I was going through, she had knowledge and experience and kept posting things. I read it and I had tears running down my face while reading because everything he was doing now made sense. It also made the case that this is who he is and is never going to change and that all the things I’d been feeling were because, in fact, that is exactly what I was to him. A thing, a maid, a babysitter for his (he never said “our” child), and his own personal whore and slave, because that’s how he was treating me. I was not a person, I was disposable.
I studied it somewhat in school for the field I am in. Had confirmation through a therapist (and exes relatives).I have to say though ,the greatest knowledge I have acquired has been through HG. Studying in school gave me a general knowledge, understanding ,tools and techniques,but HG you really dig deep. You truly show what goes on in the mindset of a socialpathic personality. The understanding and clarity I have now of what narcissism really is has been invaluable both personally and professionally. I can not thank u enough HG:)
Thank you Star.
I have been surrounded by narcs since birth. It wasn’t until I showed signs of abuse in my marriage that my father in law began to teach me about narcissism and the forms of manipulation (being a self-aware narc himself). Later on when my husbands alcoholism became obvious, my mother in law introduced me to AlAnon and gave me books to read that further explained the dynamics of narcissism, alcoholism and how they affect spouses and family members.
I found your site a few months after you started it. I saw a glowing reference to it on Lucky Otter’s blog when I was searching online for info on covert narcs. I know I am addicted to it now – the insights you provide and the camaraderie in the comments – because I have been frozen out of the blog site for several hours now and it’s about driven me crazy!!! Hope it doesn’t happen again! 🤞
Wow Windstorm. What amazing in laws you have. I’m surprised your fil was educating you about their characteristics. What a nice narc!
Love
I can imagine his response to being called “nice.” No, he was not nice, although he had several very charming, nice façades. He was a hard, scary man. He made his living running illegal poker games and did his own enforcement. He would have told you right up front that he never did anything unless it was in his best interest.
I meant nothing to him until I had my first son – his first grandson. From that point forward he did everything he could to keep me from becoming too broken to care for and raise his grandchildren. He didn’t want them taken into care or living at his house being raised by himself and his wife. He knew my husband was incapable of raising them without me.
I loved my father in law dearly and miss him often since his death, but no amount of love keeps me from seeing someone’s darkness as well as their light. He did a lot of good for a lot of people, but he had a lot of darkness, too.
I think I would have loved your FIL too ❤
The lovely Not So Sad directed me here. And thus opened up a whole new world and I beheld the God of NPD
Not actually beheld obviously. I’ve never seen him. A metaphorical beheld, if you will.
Flicka I love your humor 😁
Thank you Flicka 🙂
Xx
Pretty sure I should be thanking you!
Nah .. It was fun Flick, especially the way you utilised your new found knowledge afterwards * wink * wink . 🙂
I am probably oversharing and I apologize for the ramble ahead of time.
For me, it was an evolution with regard to my understanding of NPD. It is hard, being a diagnostician and therapist for over 20 years and be “duped” and forgive yourself. I diagnose for a living. And that is what happened. I was duped. And, to be completely straight, I was not adequately trained in NPD at all, like many in the field. This is the current state of many therapists, though it is starting to change.
I knew of the term and the diagnosis early in my education in college, though it was not detailed. The description was more classic with over the top grandiosity and egocentricity and reduced interest in the needs of others. A 2 minute run through of the DSM and done. A total injustice given the odds of encountering narcissism in practice and in life.
I first identified someone with NPD in adulthood when I met a textbook “waiting-room diagnosis” narcissist. Because of him, I read more books on it in 2005. Still, the books did not describe the other symptoms that come along with it, like those of the mid-ranger.
Thus, in 2014, I fell for a mid ranger. (Big surprise, not) I excused the self-centeredness to his being a recovering alcoholic. I saw the sleep disturbance and shutting down emotionally as possible PTSD given military experience. Then more symptoms came as the relationship progressed. The endless making himself out to be the hero in every story at work.Then the weird facial expression delays. I realized he was watching me to know what to emote in each moment. It was a split second, and I saw it. (I watch facial expressions reflexively as I assess them in my work) This was my trigger to the “Oh Fuck” moment. I then thought, OK, its personality disorder.
Then, I saw my clinical supervisor (who has a lot of experience in this) make a post on facebook about NPD. I called her. She said it was likely NPD. She then told me of this book she was reading by this scary sociopath, Evil. She told me to look at it. I did. (I freaked out, particularly the stalking techniques) I read more–First Departure Imminent…then Exorcism…then I made a plan and left. No Contact for almost 13 months now!
….your books cleared that fog.
So, when did I know about NPD first?
I think it was from you, HG. The other information never really educated me on NPD.
HG approves, thanks Indy.
HG, my heart lurches every time I scroll through and see your comments “HG approves”. That’s what my latest narc used to say all the time. I found it endearing, when I should really have been freaked out! He’s scarred me for life.
Indy:I completely understand where you are coming from . The education I received in college about personality disorders really didn’t seem adequate. More so an overview that was brief on certain traits and chacteristics and simplistic techniques with dealing with them. Mind you that was 22 years ago. I am hoping that with new awareness that people coming into these fields now will receive more extensive knowledge:) It is surprisingly easy to be duped by this type of personality, especially if one dosent understand clearly the concept of “mirroring”.
Hi Starr,
Yes, I do too! And yes, understanding mirroring is important. it is truly a moving target with time, trends in research and public interest. my undergrad was in the 90s (decade of the brain, as dubbed by scientists) as was some of my grad psych course work and NPD was barely touched. My specialty was child neuropsychology and developmental diagnostics way back then so it was not an area of focus for my track. I then went back to get additional education for counseling work in the last 5 years. I learned about BPD in depth, but only during my intensive intern training onsite in DBT. Never in class, other than a quick reference to PD. I never learned adequately about NPD, even in the past 5 years. I learned a tiny bit about how BPD and NPD often are drawn to one another while in internship but that was it. Nothing like HG. And it needs to be taught as a basic need to know. DBT and BPD are hot topics now, so lots of people now talk about it and it’s more likely covered now.
Hopefully it will change soon wiyh NPD with new focus on this topic. Autism had a similar pattern of lack of training in the field until the 2000s. Thus, I became specialized in autism in the early 2000s. Before that, in the 90s, ADHD and Bipolar were hot topics in psych. Now BPD.
Certain diagnoses become hot topics and this is what drives renewed interest and improvement in research and most importantly public knowledge and treatment.
Mirroring. . . he used to send me all kinds of pictures of himself and I noticed that he looked completely different than he did to me at the time. Sometimes he would look unshaven and gruff, others, almost feminine. With me he looked boyish and cute. One of the pictures he sent, I told him I wouldn’t want to run into him in a dark alley. I wonder, since I have been N/C for 9 months, do they remember how to act for you if they try to get in touch again?
RS, speaking from my experience only, if you actually let them speak to you, yes, they still know how to act the same way. It’s the same word salad, it’s the same copying of facial expressions and gestures it’s the same over the top I love you, “the universe is sending us a message ” poetry etc. Sometimes they will bring up a memory and overly express how meaning full it was. Sometimes even manage to make their eyes water just a little.They will tell you that there is a connection that no matter how much time has passed they are always with you. It’s actually comical once you know the tricks..and it’s nauseating.
Personally, what I used to find so intriguing and mysterious… now just seems flakey and shallow:)
He was married and never said “I love you” to me. You are right in saying how when they first seemed mysterious now they just seem flaky. I would like to think I can spot them a mile away now, especially after being on here and getting all this fantastic information and advice, but I think one of the cleverer ones still might be able to pull the wool over my eyes. Read, read, read!
Indy
I am stuck with 6 narcs at the moment and I started noticing the weird facial expression delays. They are watching me or others to know what face to present. When I was a child I had a Wednesday Addams face (self-protection) and I am using it now, so when they look at me they can’t tell what I am thinking. Narcs are spooky.
All together now
🎼 Theyre creepy and theyre kooky, mysterious and spooky, theyre all together ooky………and theyre likely family………
😝😝😝
Ahahahahaha!!!! Good one!
The Narc Family …
Snap snap
🎶 🎶
K
When I was growing up, I just thought not immediately changing your facial expression was what you were supposed to do. I learned the Wednesday Addams look, too. If you responded emotionally as a child, did you get ridiculed and made fun of?
Hi K and Windstorm,
Yes, it can be a form of self preservation to use the neutral defensive facial expression. Wow 6 narcissists? In the same home or same family or other places too?
It’s common in trauma survivors to not reveal hurt or any internal wounds. It’s hiding from predators. Like animals do in the wild when they are sick or wounded, they hide it for very long periods of time. I used to hide tears, anger and over silly-happy feelings because of my family having certain emotional expression rules that were unspoken. If one cried, you were not comforted and sometimes criticized. If one showed anger you’d be punished or hushed. I didn’t grow up with narcissists, but with those with other issues.
Remember, oftentimes narcissists are trauma survivors too and this response may, in my opinion, come from the reaction to their emotions being so severely invalidated in childhood that they disconnected from their own reactions to look to others in how to respond. Survival instinct, just like us. However, they went To the extrnt that they never kept that connection to some emotions, though not all. This may be due to other factors that make us different from narcissists. Could be biological/genetic in nature.
FYI The facial expression delay, HG calls this in his book A Grimoire of Narcissism, as the Mask Carousel.
Dear Mr Tudor and Indy,
My narcissist also suffered PTSD. He has everyone blinded, thinking his disgusting behaviour is the result of it and enjoys all the empathy and attention, which is in abundance.
I only discovered he was a narcissist after researching PTSD/depression from an article written by a doctor with a high success rate with recovery and getting in tune with ones emotions and narcissism was associated with the article.
After countless internet and you tube research on the subject, helpful as it was, it wasn’t until I came across Mr Tudor, that questions have finally been answered and continuing. Professional therapists have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. As soon as you mention the word “narcissist” people think you’re weird.
I didn’t realise something was amiss until he gave me the silent treatment” which was when I started researching, toward the end . Years of what I thought, was a friendship, and taking into consideration his medical condition, ended in an instant.
I now look at everyone being a narcissist, until proven innocent!
Hope this has been of help in your poll
Kind regards and Thankyou
Mine always said he had this as well Trauma was his favourite word, when I spoke to him regularly and extensively about NPD plus he was reading stuff himself on the internet he always said to me ” I don’t think I’m one of them ” don’t you realise it’s the trauma PTSD which he had studied and obviously this fitted nicely with his victim persona. The PTSD was caused , according to him from all his psycho exes. When I pointed out that his brother was exactly the same as him (also a narcissist possibly a psychopath) and his brother had not had relationships with any of the same women and asked him to explain that …………
I was researching the stalking behaviors of a person and i found a video about narcissim , from that moment until today i am learning about this
I wanted to take the poll but my answer was not there. I prayed. From that prayer I was led to start the research. Of indescribable behavior.
HG, my therapist sent me an article on Emotional Abuse. I have been seeing her since September when I caught him cheating… we were also in couples therapy. I read it. She insisted I read it again. And again. And again… Each time I clicked on something new. Then (on June 2,) a link to Why Does the Narcissist Blow Hot and Cold appeared. The Hot and Cold grabbed me. It was your writing. I was at work when I began reading. My eyes burned as I read. As I finally saw what was really happening. I couldn’t take my eyes away and read and read and read. He was texting me and I couldn’t respond. Which inspired more texts…. I left work and drove home. I opened my laptop and read more. He was calling but I couldn’t answer. I wanted to finish parts 2 and 3. I was in such disgust, dismay and my mind was reeling. We were in the midst of an ongoing fight for a few weeks that just could not resolve… Several phone calls later he blew into a rage and I said to him “this is over. You will never scream at me again. Ever.” I hung up and blocked him. He’s hooved me at home 7 times and hundreds of emails with promises to change, marriage, adoption blah blah blah. (The video put an end to the visits at my home!) There is still some email. As I’m attempting to get my belongings. I agreed to meet him tomorrow for coffee in the morning. Wish me luck. I’m planning on being grey rock. His sister is at the vacation home and I’m hoping he’ll agree to let her put my suitcase on the porch for UPS to pick up. If not, I’m taking your advice and will go to small claims court.
One of your posts, the one about swimming through the emotion ocean and reaching dry land, building your tower…. That one in particular gave me enormous strength! I drowned in that ocean so many times.
https://narcsite.com/2017/02/05/the-post-discard-battle-part-three/
Every word is my story.
I was with him for 5 years… ugh… brutal emotional abuse. (I thought he was more elite, but you suggested he was a mid-ranger because of the crying. I’m not sure yet.) And some physical as well. Thanks to your writing and videos I have gained a terrific education and insight into this bizarre world. Your work has shown me the way to understand the kind of person I attract, and why. I grew up in a house of emotional horrors. And every man I was ever with (except maybe one, that I chased away because he was too nice to me) was a narc. There could be 2 narc siblings, maybe Dad too… I see it now. All too clearly. It’s so true that you will keep re-creating your initial wounding until you figure it out, address it and heal it. I find that I’m now spending about equal time on the healing aspect and on Narc education. But I’m still enthralled with your posts and new videos. I look forward to seeing them in my inbox 🙂 And your hypnotic voice is intoxicating sometimes…
I would like to add that reading your posts are often more therapeutic than counseling in the sense of validation.
HG, thank you! Thank you so much for your work!
Most grateful,
Peaceful.
Hello Peaceful, you are welcome and a compelling testimony you have provided there.
Hi Peaceful,
I’m glad that you have escaped. It must have been a hell to be stuck with this kind of Narc… I wish I knew what I’ve been dealing with and knew how to prevent what had happened earlier but the positive side of this is, we now know how to identify the red flags and try to avoid them =) I’m still crossing the ocean but hopefully we both reach the dry land soon.
Oops I meant to say my husband instead of he.
My oldest son didn’t grow out of his rebellion at a certain age like the books say kids will. I started seriously looking at my husbands behavior and listening to my kids. I asked my sister to ask her medium she knows for ten years if something is wrong with my husband or our son. She came back and said he’s a bad evil person and more said. Bad. She is speaking of what is in his mind. She only gave a discription on the npd in detail she did not say he is a this or that. That answer came later when I talked to her. I then researched for maybe half a year if I can remember and did all the wrong things. I told my husband what he is and that was the number one thing not to do. He agreed with me when I told him. I then gave up reading the same thing over and over. Then planned my divorce which was the hardest step to make. With my confidant helping me it is brutal still. Because she tells me things I don’t want to hear and I have to adjust my outlook. I want this or that and she’s like nope nope it’s not fair I know. One thing she did say was even though this divorce is not fair he loses in the end because he won’t have me. She said he doesn’t want to lose me, Strongly.
And when I was in my mid twenties I knew something was wrong with my mom and I even compared her to my husband but didn’t think much of it. And also I just figured out that one of my long time best friends has to be a narcissist. She is like family to me. And my mom never liked her. She and I have never disagreed or fought only good times for forty years. I believe she’s a victim mid ranger but not sure. I do know her mom is an empty and father a big time manipulater evil man. He always liked me. Go figure.
I came to your blog hg at the time of filing my separation from my husband and seriously your writings are golden. I learned from you so much about myself and to understand everyone around me. You’re awesome.
I should say he does not want to lose my fuel. I’m correcting myself.
Thank you GM.
After exposing my ex narc to his other girlfriend, she referenced him as a sociopath. That got me researching the sociopathic behaviours.
I had concluded I was entangled with a sociopath, but as narcissism is referenced a lot with sociopathy, I began fearing I had narcissism. So I researched and found HG.
I was 100% sure he was a narc when that same girlfriend that called him a sociopath, was somehow entangled back into being with him.
I had no idea what a narcissist was until I dated this guy who was never quite right. One day a friend asked me if he was a narcissist. After reading about it, everything became so clear to me. That is exactly what is wrong with this guy. Total textbook covert narcissist.
I dated a man for 6 mos and it was the most thrilling and exciting love affair for the first 3 mos minus the fact he was into s&m which was very different for me. I at first thought he just liked funner games in the bedroom like rope play little rough and it was ok but as the suggestions got weirder and I refused or laughed at his suggestions things started to get even weirder outside the bedroom. I knew there was something wrong with this man and his relationship with his daughter was the most compelling part. I could not figure out why his 17 yo daughter sat at his beck and call, never really doing anything on her own, never even hung out with friends! He acted like she was his abused wife…she jumped at every command and he sometimes treated her like a princess but sometimes moments later treated her like a dog! I just kept thinking that he’s gonna replace her with me and eventually treat me that way, it was sad and disturbing! He always spoke to his exes and I didn’t know at the time what triangulation was but he was trying to do that to me constantly speaking of or to his ex wife and an ex girlfriend from years previous but was married to his old friend (they hid from the husband that they communicated very frequently) but he told me which I assume he was trying to make me jealous. He had dished out a present silent treatment at Thanksgiving and I was like what the fuck??? Even his daughter was nervous and I felt like we hunkered down and endured a child-like fit of some sort when we had done nothing wrong! The whole thing was so crazy but for some reason I was like an addict, I couldn’t walk away it was like watching a trainwreck and eventually I just started working weekends and making excuses to see how he reacted and then came the discard! At first I was hurt because he just stopped communication but I refused to run to his house, make a scene ect so just never heard from him again. What was really telling though was how his daughter and I had become so close but she did the same, just cut me off!!! I was so heartbroken that I did a little browsing online but when I came across HG article’s and read almost all your books it was so exact I sometimes thought Eric WAS HG lol… a true narcissist no doubt! From the bottom of my heart I thank you HG for sharing all this information as it has accelerated my healing and I am so glad that I didn’t react or give him fuel in the end! Also a little tid bit…when he wouldn’t respond to my texts at first I put a diamond necklace he bought me for sale on Facebook and you should’ve seen how fast he deleted and blocked me lol so after reading your books at least I know I really pissed that bastard off….just feel sorry for his REAL primary source… his daughter! It was so awkward that he always wanted to have sex with his daughter right across from his room and sometimes she would even go in her room to listen I swear…I think it is possible that she’s really his intimate primary source seriously! I’m so glad I will never see those phychos ever again! This world is so freaking scary, after being single for years because of a very violent relationship I thought I found the ONE, the man of my dreams…well he was, but of my nightmares…hidden in a perfect little package…good looking, good job treated me like a queen ect then the mask fell off and that shit was crazy!!!
Ali S. Wow, that is so freaky. I can’t imagine using your own daughter like that. So glad you got away from him. They do so much damage. I am so thankful for this sit and HG.
He never called,texted and would just disappear or text me that he was “in his chair now” which ment conversation ceased. Also we would only be able to make plans a day ahead and he’d cancel last minute. Wasn’t right from the get go,spider sense was tingling by the third date..took me six months to figure it out, thanks to Google at nauseum..haha..Silent treatment, gaslighting, Stonewalling..got a very good taste of it..Stronger for it,though painful.. He’s in the rearview mirror 😃