What Happens When You Tell The Narcissist He Is An Abuser?



Next to nobody knows that they have been ensnared by a narcissist the first time that it happens. Indeed, in some cases the victim has no awareness until the second, third or even fourth occasion when this happens. The awakening moment usually occurs post-escape or more usually post-disengagement. This means that the opportunity to express this new found knowledge is reduced ; either because you are now maintaining no contact or the narcissist has disappeared (for the time being) with a new victim in his or her grip. Accordingly, the opportunity to confront the narcissist to tell them that he or she is a narcissist is reduced and I have written separately about what the resultant effect is where you declare ‘No! You Are The Narcissist’.

What is more likely to happen is that the victim recognises that they are being abused or if they do not use that word, they do at least realise that the way they are being treated in a way which is wrong, unpleasant or disrespectful. There are of course a whole host of reasons why the victim may fail to recognise what is happening to them and indeed act on any awareness that does occur, but those are points to address in a separate article.

If you realise that you are being abused, what will happen when you turn to the abusive narcissist and tell them that are an abuser and that they are engaging in abusive behaviour with you.

The Lesser Narcissist

The Lesser Narcissist will not deny the behaviour that you complain of. The Lesser tends to use physical violence, sexual violence, verbal violence and property destruction as the main methods of implementing abuse and exerting control. This is because the Lesser operates in a rudimentary fashion through the sudden explosion of heated fury. Make a point to a Lesser that he or she does not like, you can expect, as a minimum to be treated to the eloquent response of “fuck off”, a punch to the face or quite possibly both. Unrefined, vulgar and crass, the response of the Lesser to being wounded or the need to exert control is to lash out in a bullying and obvious manner.

Should you tell a Lesser Narcissist that he or she is an abuser, you will generate two responses which are similar in nature. If you make this allegation in a neutral manner (thus free of fuel) it will wound the Lesser because he realises that it is critical of his behaviour and therefore this wounding will result in an ignition of fury. Thus heated fury follows and you will find yourself on the receiving end of the types of violence which I have described above.

More likely, when you tell the Lesser Narcissist that he is an abuser, you will do so in a way which provides Challenge Fuel. You will probably be upset, hurt, frustrated or angry when you level this accusation at the Lesser Narcissist. This means you are providing fuel. Nevertheless, the Lesser Narcissist will interpret your allegation as one which is challenging his or her entitlement to treat you precisely as he or she sees fit. Remember, in our eyes, you are an object, a possession and we are entitled to treat you as we want. Do not forget that we have a huge need to control and abuse is a significant method of control. Again, in our world, the need to maintain control and the fact that abuse facilitates control results in its validation. Finally, add into the mix that the Lesser has no empathy whatsoever. Your challenging of our perceived right, the challenge to our entitlement, the paranoia-stoked rebellion to our necessary control means that if you scream at the Lesser Narcissist that he is a hateful, abusive bastard means you issue Challenge Fuel. His response will be

a. He instinctively recognises there is more fuel to be obtained here and therefore the simplest way to gather that precious fuel is to provoke you; and

b. You are challenging his superiority and your insurrection must be quashed.

Since the Lesser operates in a rudimentary fashion, his or response will be to give you another dose of the abusive behaviour to ‘get you back into line’.  The Lesser never explains, never justifies – he or she just does because he or she is entitled to do this and if you do not like it, tough shit. In the same way that a Lesser will state an opinion and all who disagree are automatically labelled as idiots and morons (without explaining why they are), the Lesser responds in an automatic and knee-jerk manner based on their unwavering belief that they are right and entitled.

The Lesser does not recognise that this behaviour is wrong. It is your fault. You deserve this behaviour. He or she cannot empathise with your pain and hurt, instead he or she will only see the need to increase it in order to exert control and gain more fuel. The Lesser does not actually address the allegation in any way which you recognise as dealing with it, but instead will launch a verbal attack against you to deflect from your allegation, to put you in your place and to increase your misery. A fist will be driven into your face or your will be shoved to the floor and given two swift kicks. You ought to know your place and that is one of submission. If you tell a Lesser Narcissist that he or she is an abuser, expect an aggressive response designed to quell your rebellious accusation.

The Mid Range Narcissist will adopt a defensive response to any accusation of him or her being an abuser. Just like the Lesser, the manner in which you make the allegation will either cause wounding or (more often) the provision of Challenge Fuel. Being far more passive aggressive in nature, the Mid Range Narcissist will not lash out with a “more of the same is good for you” attitude that the Lesser adopts, but rather they will continue the abusive behaviour through defending their reputation and justifying their behaviour. This operates as follows :-

  1. “I am not an abuser, how can you say that?” The Mid Range Narcissist believes that he or she is a decent person. That is their true perspective and therefore it just does not ‘compute’ that they could be labelled as an abuser because it does not accord with their own view of themselves. There is no insight. Further, not only has the comment offended their view of themselves, but it also offends their view that they have always been ‘good’ to you, when you are asked how you can say that.
  2. “I know you get upset with me at times but that is because you over react.” The key response of the Mid Range Narcissist to being accused of abusive behaviour is to automatically blame-shift. Notice how they do not deny that the act has happened but rather it is your response which is the key to the Mid Ranger being able to avoid any culpability. It is again your fault. Whereas the Lesser lets you know that it is your fault just because it is, the Mid Ranger will at least tell you why it is your fault

“You are too sensitive.”

“You take too much to heart.”

“Don’t be silly, you read too much into things.”

Thus the narcissist dilutes the effect of the behaviour by suggesting it is the perspective of the victim which is the problem and not the narcissist.

3. If the Mid Range Narcissist does not suggest that it is the perspective of the victim that is the issue, then they will blame-shift in a further way by glossing over the abusive behaviour and instead focusing on the victim as being the catalyst for the abuse and therefore it cannot be the fault of the Mid Ranger. He or she does not necessarily deny that the behaviour has taken place, but their automatic need to maintain the upper hand means that their perspective ensures that the victim is the one who is blamed. Accordingly,

“I know you get upset when I do not speak to you, but if you let me have some peace and quiet rather than nagging me all of the time, I would not have to do it.”

“I slapped you because you were out of order shouting at me the way you did, that is no way to talk to your husband.”

4. The Mid Ranger also deflects by ignoring the abusive behaviour (again not denying it has taken place) but removes any validity of the accusation by deflecting and does so by pointing out all of the good things that the Mid Ranger does for the victim. There is also a good dose of projection in these responses too.

“I cannot believe you pick on one minor incident where I lost my temper after all of the things I have done for you recently.”

“I find it a bit much for you to accuse me of such behaviour when I have been working my nuts off to provide for this household. That really is not fair. Do you know how much pressure I have been under as of late?”

“I said those things because they are true and you don’t appreciate anything I do for you, nothing at all. You always seize on the one thing which I apparently do wrong and castigate me for it whilst you ignore all of the really good things that I do. How is that fair?”

5. The False Mea Culpa. The Mid Range Narcissist may well acknowledge that what they have done is unpleasant and hurtful and rather than blame-shift on to the victim as described above, they transfer culpability to something else.

“I don’t know what came over me, I think someone must have spiked my drink.”

“I have no idea why I did that, it must be all the pressure at work.”

“That’s not me that does that, it is like, it is like there is some demon or something which takes over from time to time. I need some help, will you help me?”

“I know there is something wrong with me, I just cannot help it, it isn’t the real me, I want to stop it, I will see someone about it and together we can conquer it.”

Notice how there is no accountability, it is some other ‘force’ or event which has caused the aberrant behaviour. The Mid Range Narcissist also deflects from what they have done by making it all about them in terms of them being a tortured soul, needing help, needing the support of the victim. This apparent contrition not only regularly cons the victim (because it is not genuine but is just a further manipulation) but it also results in plenty of fuel for the Mid Range Narcissist as he is “fussed” over by the victim and third parties.

The bottom line with the Mid Range Narcissist is that they will never accept they are an abuser. They are not programmed to do that as they have no emotional empathy. They might understand how their conduct is considered as ‘wrong’ by you and other people, because of their increased cognitive function but their disorder will not allow them to accept accountability for it. If they did, they would lose control and lose fuel and therefore they are automatically conditioned to reject any suggestion of culpability or accountability for the abuse.

The victim will be suckered into thinking either it is their fault (they over-reacted, they have been getting on the Mid Ranger’s back more recently (yes, with justification but they are dissuaded from seeing it that way) or that the Mid Ranger recognises and accepts they have abused the victim. Typically, rather than get away having (apparently) secured the truth (as a truth seeker) the victim stays in the hope of securing the healing of the abuser which they long for (alongside all of the other reasons why a victim remains with an abusive narcissist).

The Mid Ranger will maintain the façade that he or she is a good person, blame-shift and then if necessary created waves of sympathy for their behaviour whilst still not accepting they are to blame for it.

The Greater Narcissist knows the behaviour is abusive and sees it as entirely necessary to the fulfilment of his or her aims, namely control, and The Prime Aims. The Greater Narcissist also lacking emotional empathy, guilt or remorse sees what they do as a function. The Greater Narcissist knows what they are doing but the overriding need for control and superiority means that it is entirely acceptable to abuse.

Of course, the aware Greater Narcissist recognises that to make such an admission to the victim is a foolish one as this would cede control to the victim, something which must not happen. The Greater Narcissist adopts a triumvirate approach to any allegation that he or she is an abuser

  1. Total Rejection.
  2. Misperception.
  3. Threat

Through Total Rejection, the Greater Narcissist will just dismiss the allegation. Able to control his or her ignited fury with a far greater degree of control, the glacial Greater will just wave a hand and tell the victim

“That’s not abuse, punching somebody is abusive, what I did, is not abuse.”

“Don’t be so silly, I do not abuse you. Does an abuser take someone to the premiere of the new Bond movie and the after performance party? No they do not.”

The Greater is able to do this because he or she control their ignited fury, the fact that they speak and operate with a supreme confidence and conviction and because the nature of the abuse doled out by the Greater is done in such a calculated, insidious and mind-fucking manner that the victim (with eroded self-worth and reduced critical thinking) is easily led to the conclusion that it cannot be abuse. The Greater acts with plausible deniability. There are no marks from the kick to the lower back that a Lesser would leave. No finger tip bruising from the Mid Range hand about the neck. No witnesses, no observers, no evidence. Your word versus ours.

Misperception is also used. Greaters enjoy gas lighting you as the finesse and skill required appeals to our more sophisticated approach to abuse. Of course whilst we see this as an almost noble way to abuse you, it remain abuse nevertheless.

“Don’t be silly darling, that never happened.”

“We must get you back to the doctors, you are hallucinating again.”

“I told you not to mix that medication and vodka, see what it has done? It has you thinking horrible things about you and me.”

Events never happened, actions have been perceived by you inaccurately. Throw in the game-playing of our Coterie and our Lieutenants and you will find yourself in a dizzying and disorientating nightmare where the abuse never did happen because of your mistaken perception.

Finally, threat will be used. Here, the ever confident Greater will admit that the abuse has happened but makes it very clear with an accompanying reptilian smile that if you ever breath a word of it to anybody else then the resulting repercussions will be a hundred times worse than what you have experienced before. The jet-black eyes fixed on you and the steady delivery of such a threat readily convinces you that this is the case. Having experienced the abuse and also being well-aware of what the Greater is capable of, the Greater’s admission gets you no further forward. Instead, you may think you have gained some power through achieving this admission, but you actually have a sword of Damocles hanging over your head now, reminding you of the threat attached to acquiring this power. In reality, it is not power at all.

With regard to the issue of abuse, it is pointless to try and gain acknowledgement from the abuser. You will not receive validation and instead you will face further abuse and manipulation.

If you require validation as to what is happening to you, rely on your gut instinct and read Manipulated, Devil’s Toolkit and Black Flag as within those pages you will find all the confirmation you require which will give you the logic to move to the next stage of countering and escaping that abuse,

84 thoughts on “What Happens When You Tell The Narcissist He Is An Abuser?

  1. Wowza says:

    My insides are in knots as my reality unfolds and I’m not crazy. I find attributes in all three categories to be true in my spouse but the most in the greater category.
    Thank you for this piece. I have much work to do

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  2. Farzaneh says:

    I have escaped the abuse. It’s been almost one and a half year, and 14 months of absolute no contact. I have no urges to contact him.I was in agonizing pain for one year and the hate and rage were so overwhelming.I just wanted to be the good old me again. I feel much better..I see “the good old me” coming out of the destroyed shell, just like a phoenix. But I still think about that creature almost all the time..obsessively. I’m still waiting to see his misery.I still want him dead badly.. he took my innocence, I used to believe there is some goodness in every human being..and you can’t wrong someone who loves you with each and every cell of their body..that innocence is gone.I didn’t know “hate”.. I never cursed someone..providing that I’m at my late 40s and have gone through a great deal of pain and suffering, I never hold malice in my heart… I hate this creature who brought out the worst in me! ..I couldn’t believe my heart is capable of holding this darkness. I will never forgive him for turning me to this. But God..I want to forget him.. I’m still not totally free.

    1. Maria says:

      How are you doing now? This was written by you 8 months ago and you sounded just like the me of today.

      I’ve experienced lots of pain, betrayal and humiliation in my lifetime too – relinquished for adoption at birth (the product of my mentally I’ll birth mother’s psychiatrist taking advantage of her sexually) raised by two sickenly abusive adoptive parents (no background checks in the 70’s) they both died if natural caused at ages 9 and 12, then foster and group homes, a PTSD diagnosis as a teen, fighting my way through adult life to survive (always had to fend for myself and had to develope a keen sense of character when choosing friends)… it was never easy, but I never lost faith in humanity until now.

      I always told myself I would never let my experiences ruin me but my sense of self has been destroyed the past 3 years. I hate him for that, especially. I actually told him that I hope he gets hit by a bus and I absolutely meant it. We were friends for almost 2 decades and all that time I could never imagine my world without him in it. I protected our bond. Had nothing but pure love for him. He made me want to be a better person and I always tried to do the same for him. I had no idea he had just been grooming me slowly that whole time. Sick. Pure evil.

      This will chill me to my bones forever. I’m haunted and I can’t trust anyone now and feel myself be pulled into cynicism and narcissism myself now. I want to stop these feelings and wonder if there is any hope. Fighting every day to be me again. How could you just throw it all away for a sick game? What kind of monster does that?

    2. karen Thompkins says:

      Farzeneh, you are not alone… My narc ex left me in absolute agony… Ten months later he text to inform me that he had spent the weekend with some hottie… Recovery is slow, to say the least!

  3. ;peace out says:

    monsterboy called me circe, the witch. she did turn men into pigs (or reveal them?) now circe that walk ^^

  4. C★ says:

    Dr H… I don’t know about that (if u had hired a PI)…. inspite of what I had found and knew, I still stayed, with #1 & #3, (#2 was cerebral) I was deluded that they would “change”…. all the future faking etc., roller coaster & see sawing. It wasn’t until February of 2017, I found HG’s blog and never looked back. I would still be blaming myself & still be in the entanglement had I not found this blog…. or dead or “locked down” in an institution, lol

    1. C★ says:

      “locked down” as in prison for murder or conspiracy to commit murder, but I’d get off that charge by pleading insanity, lol….TRUTH!

    2. jenna says:

      C, i’m sorry u were entangled 3x by narcs. I was entangled once n it was confusing enough. I’m glad u r on the path towards healing. 🌷

    3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      C star,

      I can promise you I wouldn’t have stayed. There are certain things that trigger me so much that when that button is pressed you no joke cannot come back. I’m sorry you went through all of that.

      I put up with so much covert emotional and sexual abuse as well as some financial abuse but that cheating thing… that betrayal…omg…lemme put it this way…

      I swear… if I knew for sure my ex was screwing another woman or man (in this case)… let me just say I wouldn’t let him get away with it. I’m not going to physically hurt the person or kill them lmao! They just…. wouldn’t get away with it lol.

      I have dated various flavors of crazy. I have dated a few psychopaths and narcissists even THEY knew not to fuck with me when it came to flirting with other women infront of me. That is a mistake.

      I have a rule… everything you do to me you open the door for me to do to you.

      You’re right you probably would get off on the insanity defense because there are such few mental health conditions that would cause like legal insanity lol!

      Can I just mention in glad we are getting along now?

      1. C★ says:

        Yes, DrH, and know I do not intentionally go out seeking enemies…. one of me is a loose cannon, lol…. ✌️

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        C star,

        Can I ask you…

        How many personalities do you have and do they still come out?

        In therapy do they or did they try to integrate them?

        You are such a rare one I just …. had to ask

        1. msbrown says:

          i have a form of amnesia, centered around childhood trauma. “Dissociative amnesia” ,,,, stress brings the episodes i am told. i am not aware of when it happens. I had 3, and when i was around 4 yrs old, one of them was a dog. currently, i have many different personalities. i do not have specific answers for you….

  5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    when I caught him on that big dick dating website he has the balls to say:

    “The depths you would go…”

    “I can’t believe you would stoop that low”

    Wtf!? lol I looked at him and was like dude I caught your ass on a big dick dating site and your telling meeeeeeee the depths I would go?!

    He even said a few times throughout the last year of the relationship “I never forgave you for that…”


    Forgave me?!!!??????

    Can’t someone just catch him in the bushes for me blowing another guy he met off Craigslist?! Lmao

    1. jenna says:

      Hi doc, i’m sorry to hear this. It sounds just awful. I hope ur away frm him now. I missed u too, while HG cud not moderate. I’ve indicated to others who i missed. I’m so emotional, missing pple etc. Ugh!

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I’ve missed you too! Aww you are so sweet!!! Here I am thinking I’m totally dead inside lol…. guess not… that made me genuinely smile 🙂

      2. windstorm2 says:

        There’s nothing wrong with being emotional as long as you hold on to your logical mind too. Well rounded people are a mix of both. I missed people too! I never regret caring for others, although that can be a real struggle with SOME others! Particularly of the narc variety! 😄

      3. jenna says:

        Ty for the compliment doc! Why wud u think u r dead inside?! Though i am sorry for what you went thru, i see u take it w a grain of salt, inserting ‘lmao’ v often! I find that v humorous! I also notice u change ur language frm serious, when need be, to more informal, when u talk abt ur narcs. The change is quite distinctive and i can see two sides of u. It is a plus point! 💗

        Windstorm, u r correct. “There’s nothing wrong w being emotional as long as you hold onto your logical mind too.” That’s the prblm i often face. My logic flies out the window as my emotions take over. But i think i am improving.

        “Particularly of the narc variety” haha!! I enjoy ur sense of humour too! 🌹

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I change my language depending on the context and… here I can just be. I clearly speak differently when I am acting in a professional capacity lol!

        Thanks for always accepting me. You’re a very warm and lovable person that is evident!

        I’m dead inside lol… I sound like a Zoloft commercial lol. Probably a combination of low grade depression and ADHD in addition to losing faith in humanity lmao.

        I have a dark sense of humor as well lol…

        I have to laugh about it …

        I have to lol

    2. narc affair says:

      Hi Dr. Harleen…i still shake my head over that story. I definitely think hes a closet gay or bi. I think it was a form of word salad what he was doing and deflection. He wanted to take the heat off himself so deflected it onto you. I wouldve said exactly what you posted ummmm…”forget me wth were you doing on that site is there something youre not telling me ???” ….the whole thing reminds me of my brother in law. Hed talk about gay guys a lot and how disgusted he was with “insert descriptive scenerio”. For someone whose so disgusted he sure brought it up a lot. He was sexually abused repeatedly in a foster home by a foster brother so its highly likely he may have some sexual issues. This isnt to say being gay is a result of that but it can contribute to being confused. He also had a porn addiction. Hed often bring up where gay guys hung out near their old house yrs ago. Im sure he knows from being there.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        You have no idea how much better you make me feel everytime you remind me of your brother in law….

        Thank you

        Seriously, thank you.


    3. C★ says:

      I discovered a lot of similar and worse, on my own and then also a hired an investigator for objective cold hard “facts” that couldn’t be denied (by him)… same response!!! …my fault for “snooping”! and of course it was all my fault he was doing what he was doing and for his disentanglement /ending formal relationship (13 yrs married) … i will never trust ANYONE again….. and that was how my 3rd marriage, and my 3rd Narc…. ended

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        C star,

        I’m sorry you went through all that. I actually entertained hiring a PI at the beginning of the relationship. I wish I did. I wouldnhave left so much faster.

    4. jenna says:

      Doc, yw and ty for the compliments towards me. I am always curious what others think of me here. Ur comment abt sounding like a ‘Zoloft commercial’ lol!

  6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    “I’m such a good guy”

    “You are unreasonable”

    “You’re so sensitive”

    “Can’t you take a joke”

    “If I’m such a bad abusive guy then why do you stay with me”

    “I never said that”

    “That never happened”

    “You’re so angry and mean when you drink” – complete lie. Nice try moron. That is why I kept disproving you’re dumb theories time and time again. That is why yesterday or the week before I drank and things were just fine. I would often sit there near the bottle… drink nothing he would say something horrible and I would defend myself and then shit would spiral out of control. He would be like see cause you’re drinking and I would say seeeeeee nothing is in the glass and nothing was ever in the glass. It didn’t matter if I was drinking or not he always said passive aggressive, judgmental, provocative statements completely unprovoked. All I had to do was breathe or say a single word. God forbid I defend myself. I told him I’m not gonna sit here and take it like a bitch! You must be completely fucking out of your mind! I’m starting to think more and more he never really believed that about me – that when I drink I’m mean… it’s becoming clearer now. He was trying to paint me out to be unstable.

    We were playing around one time and accidently clipped his balls and after I saw this look in his face that first indicated pain… I said omg ” I’m so sorry are you okay.” He paused for a second had a look of like complete rage got on top of me and smacked me. He then ran into his room grabbing his junk. I remember running after him and saying “omg are you okay? I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to do that.” He said something that I can recall but I remember him saying something nasty and then I just processed that asshole really just smacked me!

    Me: You just fucking hit me!
    Narc: You kicked me in the balls!
    Me: I did that by accident! You did it on purpose! I can’t believe you fucking hit me!!!
    Narc: No I didn’t!
    Me: Yes you did! Hit me again you piece of shit! I want everyone to know what pussy piece of shit you are! Now everyone will be able to see what an asshole you are! What are you afraid that the upstairs neighbors can hear that YOU HIT ME!?

    He had this devious look on his face and smiled at me and said…

    Narc: Oh yeah? Well if I hit you… then where are your bruises? ::smirk on his face::

    The story doesn’t end there…

    1. Star says:

      Dr HQ. This resonates. I’m sorry you had to deal with such a douchebag.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Thank you for understanding. I find that I relate a great deal to you …

  7. EasyBreezy says:

    I’ve just recently found out that he’s a narc. 11 years of emotional abuse fog and blindness and then the final discard 3 months ago. I’ve been acting out as the emotional basket case giving him fuel every couple of days or so. “I loved you, we could have been great, etc”. He walked out on me and our daughter for his new supply, btw. Anyway, do you think he’ll hoover so I can play some games too? Is this a bad idea? I just want him or her or both to suffer a major blow to their relationship at some point and it’ll only happen if I can get him to hoover after my delicious post-discard groveling supply. I’ve purchased “Revenge” and it’s been shipped. I cannot wait to dive into it.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello EasyBreezy (Japanese?)

      He will hoover in accordance with the Hoover Trigger and Hoover Execution Criteria. Since he has disengaged from you (there is no such thing as a Final Discard) and he appears to have a new appliance, if you do not enter his spheres of influence he is unlikely to hoover you at the current time because he will be focused on the new IPPS. I would need more information to gauge which school of narcissist he is, the nature of the dynamic and his fuel matrix etc so I could provide a more accurate analysis and that ought to be done through a consultation.

      1. EasyBreezy says:

        Yes, I’m definitely Japanese. I would say he’s mid-range. And yes, I agree he’s not going to hoover me yet but I believe at some point he’ll play nice again because I can tell he has thoroughly enjoyed my buckets of (supply)tears lately. I have decided I’m going no contact in that regard(no more groveling) but since we have a kid and selling our house, I’ll still have to engage.

        Thanks for your input, I know you love giving it. 😉 And I will consider the private consult perhaps after I read “Revenge” and need more direction.

        You are awesome. And of course, you already know that.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed I am and I look forward to discussing the matter with you in due course EasyBreezy.

  8. shantily says:

    The mid range narc I was involved with is in serious serious trouble for being violent with me and I’ve just found out the authorities went into my medical files and found more evidence to use against him. This is going to mean an all out war on me. Maybe time for a consult HG? Talk about outrage, and his extreme paranoia of being found out …? I think he’ll play victim as you say and look for pity at how he’s been falsely accused etc. To have such base grotesque drama in my life that’s the thanks I get for getting involved with him

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I agree, you need to be prepared for what is going to happen next. I shall await your contact in that regard.

      1. jenna says:

        As u stated above, but had no reply button there, so commenting here:
        “There have also been occasions when considerable fuel has been gathered.” – wow, even while abroad! Impressive indeed! I need not worry then. I do worry abt u HG. Pple pls don’t judge me for worrying abt a narcissist. He had an abusive childhood and his soul was stripped away frm him 😔

      2. Bliss says:

        Jenna, I worry about my narc all the time too. Something with how they are that just tugs at our heartstrings. He is a narcpath though and I can feel his hatred towards me whenever I do feel or express care or concern towards him during the golden period, even when he had it under control. During devaluation I didn’t dare to express any care or worry towards him as I would suffer serious consequence. Treading on eggshells on a whole new level! Hoping HG will have an answer as to why some of them don’t like us worrying about them.

    2. E. B. says:

      Hi shantily,

      I am so sorry to hear that your MRN used violence against you in the past and about what you are going through at the moment. It is unfair and you have not deserved it. HG’s advice and the new evidence found to use against your ex will help you achieve a positive outcome. I wish you all the best!!

      1. shantily says:

        Thanks EB once I get to the court part I’ll talk to HG first before I do anything. At this point I’m looking at myself and the how I got here part and how to prevent this happening in the future. I can’t control the actions of another person. But what I should be able to control are my own actions and I certainly wasn’t doing a good job of that. I know I escalated some of his violence towards me (don’t get me wrong he should never have touched me) but I would get myself in deeper by my reactions. I need to fix myself. Thank you for your kind words sweets xo

    3. Bliss says:

      Shantily, I’m sure you will be absolutely fine but definitely read up, consult and arm yourself and be prepared. I wasn’t. I just assumed that truth and good will always triumph but unfortunately we’re not in a Hollywood film. I wish I was more prepared. Hope you manage to get out of this situation quickly and unscathed and I hope there will be justice.

      1. shantily says:

        Oh Gosh thank you Bliss because that has kind of been my attitude since meeting with the detectives! One minute I think I’ve done the right thing I’ve told the truth and the Crown and my lawyers will protect me and then I think good Lord what have I done ???h e is going to wage an unholy war on me… I’m going to have a consult with HG and get his opinion when it gets closer to trial. Thank you ever so much for taking the time to send me your thoughts xo

      2. shantily says:

        I’m going Friday for a pelimary hearing and to listen to the second charge of assault causing bodily harm laid against him. He has no idea it’s coming. I am going give him grey rock and then dance a jig when I get outside !!! I’m so nervous, wonder if the new girlfriend will be accompanying him – we have only been broken up for 24 days and she’s been prancing around with him all last week … every single bit of guilt I had ? Every ounce of love and pity I had for him ? gone it’s been replaced with pure disgust ! when it goes to trial I’ll go over all the details with HG

  9. Bliss says:

    My midrange narc might be more a greater in this instance. I reported his abuse initially but he quickly turned the situation round and reported me six times, each time reporting me of doing exactly what he does to abuse me and the young children, or coming up with the most unbelievable tales. It quickly became “your word against mine” and authorities were at loss who to believe.

    1. jenna says:

      Bliss, u worry abt ur narc too? Well, mine isn’t ‘mine’ anymore, not that he ever was 😅 Now, he’s my ex.
      Yes i worry abt HG and the potential isolation project, and i worry abt my ex. My ex likes it when i give him sympathy tho. One time, he didn’t like it. 😒

    2. jenna says:

      Above comment shud b below, but there was no reply button there.

      1. jenna says:

        Sorry i keep talking about the lack of reply buttons. 😶
        Damn wordpress!

  10. M. says:

    One question, please, HG. You have told me, when I asked, that a Mid-Ranger cannot grow to become a Greater with time. But I am wondering: what happens to the few marcissists that are in here, reading you? Let us say one of them is an UMR. And he/she follows carefully, all of your articles, your books and your interraction with us. And that Mid-Ranger starts finding more and more narcissistic traits in him/herself. Can’t this petson one day fully realise that he or she is one of your kind? I am asking a)because I assume that a person that follows your blog has a high IQ and wants to find answers and b) because I take an example of myself-I have realised I, too, have some strong narcissistic traits.And it is mainly you that made me clearly see them.I also have empathic traits (should I say “Thank God?” I am not sure,ha ha). If you can enlighten us, can’t you also enlighten a Mid-Ranger?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Valid question M, but the UMR does not recognise that he or she is a narcissist and nor will that person. It is because they are programmed to reject the notion that they are narcissist, it just does not compute and therefore they cannot “see” what they are. There is a Mid Range Narcissist (a MMR) who reads this blog but doesn’t comment at present. That individual saw all of the material, behaved absolutely in accordance with the behaviour of a Mid Ranger (projection, blame-shifting, deflection, lies, attempted seduction, passive aggressive behaviours, triangulation and so forth) yet had absolutely no insight into what that individual is and still does not. They just cannot see it.

      1. windstorm2 says:

        How can you be so sure they can never see it, HG? Maybe that’s why she no longer comments? Maybe they will never acknowledge their narcissism outright, but subconsciously they recognize it and feel the dichotomy.

        I’ve often wondered if some midrangers may withdraw to keep from having to acknowledge and confront what they really are, but deep down they know. Or are you saying that that is the dividing line between midrange and greater – the ability to recognize what they see?

        I guess I have a very hard time understanding how an intelligent person can not recognize truths about themselves, when they’re hit in the face with them. Not acknowledge them or admit them – that I understand. But really not suspect them in themselves?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I know WS2 based on extensive experience of interaction with these people over many years.

          1. windstorm2 says:

            Thank you for your answer,HG.

          2. HG Tudor says:


      2. Bliss says:

        Oooh, interesting. How do you know though if they don’t comment? (Starting to believe you’re omniscience)

        My mid range narc will never accept he is. Whereas I’m more inclined, as M has mentioned, to recognise my own narc traits and continually question if I’m one. He would never. He’s definitely a MRN with a few greater traits dotted here and there.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If who do not comment, Bliss?

      3. Bliss says:

        HG, this MMR:

        “There is a Mid Range Narcissist (a MMR) who reads this blog but doesn’t comment at present”

        Have I misunderstood?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I assume you are asking me, how do I know that that person is a MMR if they do not comment? If that is your question, you mist have missed what I wrote. I wrote that they “do not comment at present”. The individual still reads here but no longer comments. It is from previous comments (and other material) that I was able to conclude that this individual is a MMR. Hope that clears it up for you.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Ohhh, I was confused too. I thought maybe it was someone who has used you for the private email or phone consults and that is how you observed their personality. I’m sure some consult but feel too intimidated to participate here or just don’t want to.

      4. M. says:

        Thank you for your answer, HG.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome M.

  11. jenna says:

    My ex mid-ranger:

    “You are over thinking”

    “I know you have emotional prblms”

    “I just can’t help it sometimes” – when i pointed out that he was getting angry

    “This is what i deserve after everything i’ve done for u?”

  12. Noname says:

    Despite on generally sad topic, the preview picture made my day. I couldn’t help myself from laughing. The facial expression of that guy is precious. Lol.

    The article is very interesting. Thank you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome NoName.

  13. E. B. says:

    Excellent analysis of different responses coming from the three schools! You have perfectly described my father, who was definitely a Greater and also one of my siblings, who behaves like a Lesser. I used to think my brother had a BPD. Since I started reading your work and noticing how his personality has changed over the years, it seems to me that he is actually a Lesser. He feeds off his child and his many SSs and gives plenty of fuel to his Mid-Range wife.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome EB.

  14. kq says:

    Although I’m sure this wasn’t written for just me, I really appreciate this one a lot as I’m sure you saw my question under “THE NARCISSISTIC TRUTHS – NO. 113.” Seriously, thank you.

    You state (I can’t copy for some reason, thanks iPad) that the victim with the mid ranger stays typically to secure the healing of them. This made me pause and really reflect. I feel I stayed because I thought the abusive pattern was so undeniable and obvious, and surely any human who abuses doesn’t WANT to (lesson learned), that he could finally recognize it as “wrong” and have that bulb to go off and finally get consistent and real psychological help.

    He almost looked sad/panicked when I would point out how he was mentally/emotionally abusive. He rejected it not with arrogance but with utter avoidance but there was some strange and sad version of confusion on his face. The blame shift was always “how/why/should I stay with someone who says I’m abusive? Do you have any idea how damaging that is? Would YOU stay if someone said that to you?” Or very, very rarely and when he was seemingly ultra low and down “I know I am and I hate myself after every episode.” Thinking more… I’ve blocked most of this out now, but the episodes always were the result of some imagined slight against him “I saw that smirk,” “you rolled your eyes at me again!” “You think I’m a fucking joke, don’t you.” “Don’t dimsmiss me, you always dismiss me.” It got crazy in the end, I literally wouldn’t have smirked, rolled eyes, made a dismissive comment/gesture but he saw that somehow? Did he? Or is that just manipulation? Are those the reactions of someone who’s a narc or someone suffering from delusions?

    So yes, I stayed as I wanted the healed him but also I really did pity him, he was so broken and such a shell of a man towards the end. I wanted better for him, and then of course I could benefit eventually. I did grow very tired, exhausted even. I could deal with the emotional abuse but the cheating and lying just put the nail in the coffin.

    1. Tappan Zee says:

      I am. rolling my eyes 👀
      Dissmissing him. And..
      Think he’s a joke.

  15. Oops says:

    Is there a possibility of being part of all three types depending on the situation and amount of alcohol consumed? I’ve seen all three. Lesser most lately, but alcohol intake has increased.

    I’ve struck up an unlikely friendship with one ex this week and she says I seem to be getting worse verbal treatment, physical reactions than she did, but none of the cheating that happened constantly during her period.
    She’s told me in her opinion to leave, but is there for whatever support I need. She’s been very open with the details.
    This is the oddest situation I’ve ever found myself in.
    I’m creeping closer to escape in my head, just need the heart to follow.

  16. Mary says:

    Very helpful, HG. Thank you. Curious about your thoughts on this…

    For the first time ever, I recently told my hub that his raging at our dog and at me is abuse. I’ve known it is for some time, but had never used that word directly in explaining how destructive it is. I told him his screaming and seething is bullying and intimidating behavior and its abuse.

    He looked at me like he has no idea what the fuck I was talking about. Then he went on to say “u guess you don’t want me to do anything for our dog then.” That’s what he does! He “parents” our dog with me, but if I bring up his threatening behavior, he says basically “fuck it, YOU deal with it then” knowing some things I can’t because of pain. He refuses to be a man and express his annoyance in some way that isn’t threatening. He acts like I expect too much, to not have screaming and vile language coming from him on a daily basis almost. What do you consider that behavior and what category would that put him in?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This is the response of a Lesser, Mary.

    2. Tappan Zee says:

      DYING LAUGHING @ “fuck it, YOU deal with it then” omg seriously crying. needed that. ty. but the more i read the more i go mmm hmmm. wish it weren’t at “our” collective expense.

  17. Salome says:

    For sure I will not tell him!
    You are a great teacher, dear HG!!!

  18. MLA - Clarece says:

    It would seem that if a Greater is feeling confident enough to use the threat tactic, the victim has to really be on the cusp of exploding something big on them because they are now putting all their eggs in the “fear” basket to keep their victim controlled that way. What if the victim isn’t afraid anymore? They truly transcended to a point of not giving a single fuck and can let the chips fall wherever they may? Monsters don’t have much control if fear is removed from the equation.

    1. jenna says:

      “Monsters don’t have much control if fear is removed from the equation” – good point clarece! How r u? I missed u while hg was travelling. He told me he is still travelling during consult, but kind enuf to do some moderating today.

      Hg, how do u receive fuel while u travel, since u wud b away frm family, friends, ipps, ipss? Your interaction on the blog or thru technology to the former mentioned wud only b low grade fuel, correct? So this two wk travel is almost like an isolation project in a way?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I am often not alone when I travel. I am with NISSs. I also interact with repeated tertiary sources along the way and at the various destinations. I pick up further NISSs also. I interact with the appliances back in the UK through technology – Skype, FaceTime, e-mail, telephone, text etc. There are occasions where I am unable to engage with those back in the UK and there are periods where I am on my own out here but those periods are not for long. I have been abroad for six weeks now and the major components have been successfully implemented. There have also been occasions when considerable fuel has been gathered.

      2. MLA - Clarece says:

        Hi Jenna! I think about you often! How is Mr. Gas Tank treating you these days? Been planning a couple of excursions for the fall. Taking my daughter to see the Joffrey Ballet do “Giselle” in Chicago. Also planning a little weekend trip to Atlanta to visit my cousin and her husband. Other than that, I’ve had to get back to the school grind schedule with my daughter this week.
        Thanks for thinking of me! Hugs!

    2. jenna says:

      Hi clarece! Mr. Gas tank is trying to improve himself these days, so i am happy about that. It definitely helps me to forget abt ex mid-ranger when mr. Gas tank does so; though some days the ex just creeps back into my mind. 😅
      Have fun on your fall excursions, at the ballet, and your trip to atlanta! Sounds like you have many fun activities planned! And i hope ur daughter has an enjoyable start to the new school yr! Hugs back! 💗

  19. windstorm2 says:

    Had to go thru all that midrange crap growing up with my mother. I refused to believe her or acknowledge she was really a “good person.” I think I hated the thought of that worse than the mindfuckery from my husband.

    And I guess I was lucky he only did the rejections and misperceptions. He never threatened me – at least not of what he would do to me. He would just paint scenarios of how horrible things would turn out if I didn’t do what he wanted. It all seemed very logical and he seemed so sure.

    He never pretended to care about me, though, one way or the other. If I wanted to do something stupid and have it blow up in my face, well, that was my right. He’d be fine no matter what I chose. I was the one who would end up hurting herself.

    1. jenna says:

      “I was the one who would end up hurting herself.” – my latest psychiatrist told me i do this too. 😞

      Windstorm, i missed u (and clarece, stated below) and indy, narcaffair, and others, while hg cud not moderate. How r u my friend? One reader just unsubscribed today!! I will never unsubscribe. This place is like home to me.

      1. windstorm2 says:

        Happy Friday! I certainly missed everyone, too. I must spend several hours a day reading every comment and thinking about them. Then when he’s off grid I have all that extra time to fill!! But I console myself with the knowledge things will return to normal like the sunrise after night.

        All is well in my universe. Have a narc filled weekend ahead (family narcs). Tomorrow is my oldest son’s birthday. That’s the anniversary of the most frightening and most difficult day of my life! But I will focus on my son and how grateful and thankful I am that I have him in my life and how well he has turned out, despite his being a narc. He has enough intelligence, self awareness and cognitive empathy to maintain a successful job, marriage and be a pretty good father to his two little girls. Not to mention to tolerate his crazy mother, whom he accepts, but will never really understand!
        Hope you have a great weekend!!

      2. windstorm2 says:

        You never know about unsubscribing. I did it once for a few weeks. That’s how I ended up with that obnoxious 2 at the end of my name (I could no longer be just Windstorm because one already existed – even though that one was me!). So you never know when someone leaves, they may well be back later.

        I came back because I’m a lifelong learner, and I realized there was still more about this subject for me to learn and because I view this site as a giant support group. The best support groups have people at all different stages in dealing with the problem. I’m very glad I came back, because the knowledge and interaction here greatly enrich my life and my outlook. Also since HG has started his ACON series, I’ve gained a ton of insight into how and why I’ve ended up the woman I am today. Knowledge is power and like HG likes to say, I’m seizing the power!

      3. Indy says:

        Awww Jenna,
        Just saw this. Missed you too, hugsssss

      4. narc affair says:

        Hi jenna…thats so sweet i missed you and everyone on here. Its like a reunion everytime the blogs up and running. This blog is my favorite online site and so helpful as well! Hugs to you and hope youve been well 🤗💓

    2. jenna says:

      Windstorm, good luck with ur narc filled wknd!!😀
      I’m sure you’ll do great as u have had experience w narcs in your family.
      I wish ur son a happy bday and i’m v glad he turned out well, despite him being a narcissist.
      You spending time and commenting on the blog is definitely valuable to all readers here. Thank you for your time! I gain much frm your posts!

      So that is how u ended up as ‘windstorm2’! Haha! I’ve always just called u ‘windstorm’ as it is easier to type. So i’ve been using the original name all along!! 😄

      1. windstorm2 says:

        Thank you. You are very sweet. I enjoy your fresh, upbeat attitude.
        Yes, you use the right name! That 2 annoys me! May all my annoyances be so trivial!! 😅

    3. jenna says:

      Ty for the compliment windstorm! 🌷

  20. Cc says:

    I’m beginning to think I stay within the realm of the narcissist I know out of pure boredom. And complete denial.

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