Sins of the Empath : The Listener

SINS OF THE EMPATH- THE LISTENER

Many people are poor listeners. It takes concentration and effort to listen for a sustained period of time. Many people lack the discipline and rigour that is required to be such a person, their minds wander, they are busy thinking about what they want to say, the point which they wish to make or even wondering what they are going to have for dinner. Staying on point with regard to what somebody is saying takes focus and effort.

Being a good listener is one of the traits which belongs to the empathic group of people. You are blessed with the ability to sit and exhibit considerable patience as you allow somebody to talk to you. At its simplest, you allow a person to tell you all about their plans for decorating their house. Such a topic might be regarded as mundane but not to those from the empathic group. You take an interest in what you are told and this combines with your preparedness to allow others to have their say. Your stance is that if the subject matter is important to that person, then it is important to you as well. You will not trivialise the commentary, regard the conversation as banal or consign the observations from the speaker into the file in your mind marked ‘Trivial’.

It is not the case that you will necessarily sit like some wall flower as this person talks, but you are able to regulate your responses so you do not interrupt them. Instead, you coax people to share, not so you can elicit information to use against them, but rather to aid your own understanding with a view to being able to respond in a more effective and helpful manner.

Your capacity to listen is not confined to allowing somebody to tell you what they think of the latest Tom Cruise film or how their Greek Island hopping holiday panned out. Your listening skill finds its forte when you engage in listening to people talk about their hopes, their concerns, their problems and what is causing them anguish and anxiety. You are skilled in adopting a pose which allows that person to offload about anything and everything to you. You deploy silent visual cues which demonstrate that you are paying attention and that you are processing what you are being told in order, at the appropriate time, to provide valuable feedback, observation and insight.

This segues into the fact that not only are you a brilliant listener but you also know when to speak and when to remain silent. You will not interject unnecessarily, but instead you will be able to gauge when you should speak. You can hold on to information, flag a point and store it, assimilating the steam of facts and opinions that are being spewed in your direction until there is an apt moment for you to respond.

You empathic nature as a whole combines with this ability to listen to create a safe environment wherein the speaker feels able to trust you. He or she almost has a compulsion in your presence to want to confess, spill their guts, confide and explain. You generate an environment whereby the speaker knows they can tell you what is on their mind and that you will not be judgemental. They feel assured in your presence, confidence that not only are they being listened to but they are being heard.

Indeed, the skill of being a good listener, as an empathic person, is the anti-thesis of our kind. We are generally poor listeners, save when we identify the need and only then it is because we have seen that there is a benefit which can be accrued from listening intently. More usually, the Lesser will find that his chaotic thoughts appear in a haphazard fashion and he has to release his comments as if he does not do so he might be poisoned by keeping the toxic words inside. This means that his thoughts are all about what he is saying, about to say and he is not listening to you. The Mid-Ranger appears to be listening, he can at least create the image, but he is not. He is too concerned to ensure that what he has to say will be listened to and responded to. When you are speaking he is not listening to what you have to say, he finds your words are getting in the way and, like all of our kind, all he hears is the fuel element of what is being said. If you are shouting about how annoyed you are with him, he is not hearing the content but rather enjoying the fuel being provided and thinking about what might be said next to keep this flow glowing. As for the Greater, he is contemptible of what you have to say, how can anything you say be of interest to him unless it is about him and it is providing fuel.

You may find with our kind that you realise you are repeating yourself as you see that we appear to be somewhere else. Furthermore, there will be instances where we will deny the you have told us something and our denial is adamant. You know that you told us and at the time we responded confirming what you had told us. Yet, here we are now denying that you told us what time to meet up or where to go to in order to collect a parcel. Of course there will be times where we have heard you and we then deny what you say in order to maintain control and frustrate you (usually the preserve of the Greaters) but on many occasions the Lesser or Mid-Ranger will actually not remember what was said and the denial is based on their genuine belief you have not told us something, because they were not listening and absorbing what was being said, because they had no interest in what you were saying at that time. They may have been considering what they wanted to say, who else they wanted to speak to, what they were going to do next and many other factors, which all result in a complete failure to absorb what you have said. Accordingly, the denial and a strenuous one at that, arises at a later time.

Your ability to be a great listener means that you also expect others to listen return the same courtesy to you. That is not to state that you are demanding and haughty about being listened to, far from it, you are content to allow others to speak for longer and more often than you. You do however expect that when you speak you will be listened to and our repeated failure to do this becomes a repeated source of frustration and upset for you.

The fact of being an excellent listener becomes your sin because we treat you like the sounding board, save we are not interested in hearing anything back from you. The Mid-Range of our kind and especially the Greater revel in the imposition of lengthy monologues where we espouse our views (often stolen from listening to others) for the purposes of ensuring you bask in our brilliant rhetoric. Speeches will be made from our armchairs as if we were delivering the Gettysburg Address. You will listen because that is what you do and we seize on your capacity to listen and then listen some more as a captive and appreciative audience. Your smile, your occasional nods and wide-eyed appreciation (when we deign to look at you) are confirmation of our standing and our effective grandstanding.

You are expected to listen to us dominate the table at a dinner party and nod with enthusiasm, make appreciative noises and be supportive and you will do so because as the excellent listener you feel that it is only right.

You are expected to laugh at the anecdote which we have told a hundred times before and you will dutifully do so. You believe that it is fair and right to allow us our stage and we exploit that willingness on your part to the full. Your sins manifest through allowing us to rant at you. You believe we are entitled to say our piece, no matter how vociferously and you will not interrupt, even though we can see the fear and hurt in your eyes. Your capacity for listening means that you will be regularly exposed to our vitriolic words and compelled to hear them, listen them out and respond, even though all we want is your fuel by way of response. You will become frustrated, even though your try to hide it, at our failure to listen to you, our lack of interest in your opinion and the way we interrupt you and talk over you.

We want you listening, attentive and admiring. We want you listing, hanging on our words even as we berate you. You have a deep sense of obligation to do so, feeling that we may finally make some valid point, tell you something that provides a breakthrough and gives a moment of clarity through this long-winded spiel.It never comes. It is a waterfall of words as we talk about ourselves, talk about our brilliance (greater), woes (mid-ranger) or anger (lesser). This cascading oratory and your obligation to listen begins to take its toll as you worn down by our selfishness, our narrow-mindedness and the savageness of our comments when they are directed at you.

Some suggest that to speak is to sin.

In the world of the empath, listening is worse.

176 thoughts on “Sins of the Empath : The Listener

  1. Brian says:

    “talk about our brilliance (greater), woes (mid-ranger) or anger (lesser).”

    That’s an interesting summary,
    would you say that its just a pattern and not absolute?
    ie midrangers and greaters talk about anger too but not as much.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is broad brush strokes Brian denoting what is spoken about the most but other elements will appear too, as you identify.

      1. Brian says:

        Thank You HG
        It is a useful guide

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

  2. Windstorm2 says:

    Wow!
    I got an email for a reply to a comment I hadn’t seen from this article. I came back to the site and read them all. I was surprised that there were several comments I was never notified of. That surprised me. Now I wonder how many other comments I miss by depending on the notifications.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is a strange system. I receive e-mail notifications very rarely compared to the number of comments of mine which are replied to.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        How then do you find out about them, HG? Even if I went back and reread all the comments (which takes forever, since they are often added), then there is rarely a way to reply to them.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I do not rely on notifications – I access a moderation pane which shows me all of the comments waiting to be read by me and moderated. I get to see them all that way WS2.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            Thanks for explaining, HG. At least that ensures that you don’t miss any.

    2. Twilight says:

      Hi Windstorm2

      How are you doing? Family feeling better?

      I have been having that same issue, when I have time I go back and look.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Hey Twilight!

        Yes, they are better. We had a great Halloween. I got to hand out candy and 91 kids came by the house! As usual for me I went overboard decorating and making an elaborate witches costume (got the purple wax out of my hair, but still can’t get the green off my hands and face)!
        Enjoying all my little rodents, but I’ll be glad to get back to my oasis of peace at home this weekend!

        How’s everything with you?

        1. Twilight says:

          Hi Windstorm2

          I am great! Apparently telling my “boss” to go to hell and I will show him the way didn’t go over well, in my defense telling me what I am going to do (come to his house and have a little fun) dealing with the repercussions today being at his store.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            Twilight
            Good luck! Sending you positive energy!⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

          2. Twilight says:

            Thanks Windstorm2

            Lol the last thing he said before he left
            Your coming over tonight WTF, he doesn’t own me to tell me what to do. I just walked away.
            I am sure you can guess what he is.

            Sorry I am a little livid and wish I had hit him over his fat bald head with a pot.
            I am going another route it is called a phone call to HR. I can play this game to.

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            Twilight
            That triggered a memory that made me laugh! Before my exhusband became a lawyer, his last job was in Human Resources. You can imagine how compassionate and understanding he was! 😝

            While he absolutely hated dealing with employee problems, dressing down lower level narcs was a highlight for him. His favorite thing was letting people go. He was the one to fire everyone. He did enjoy that part! Still that job took a toll on him. Even though it was the highest paying job he’s had, I understood when he quit to go to law school. He’s really in his element as a prosecutor.

            Good luck with your HR!

    3. NarcAngel says:

      Windstorm

      I have experienced that as well. I try to visit the article again before deleting (after a time) in case Ive missed replying to someone or missed posts but its time consuming and some articles have so many comments. I would hope people know that if I didnt reply to a question posed to me that I just didnt see it and I will assume the same of them. Except for HG-I know the reasons there. Its not a perfect system-there are glitches, but I suppose it can be considered to be performing well under the considerable strain of activity here. Closing in on 7 million with the number of subscribers increasing.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        NarcAngel
        Same for me. If I fail to respond to anyone, it will be inadvertently. I saw a couple of your comments to me in this article but they had no reply buttons – seems like one was of your surprise at my love
        of word salad. Being a long-time vegetarian, my love of all salads should not surprise you.

    4. Jenna says:

      Windstorm, me too. 😧

    5. K says:

      Ditto WS2. I have been missing several too.

  3. Tappan Zee says:

    WS2–You and I have been around narcs all our lives. We’ve learned how to have fun playing with them and not get hurt (much).

    ^ditto except i have known nothing but pain.

    our experiences are different. one day i hope not to feel the burn. correct not all are there yet. and correct i would not seek out the demise of myself nor delude my thinking to that of “this time i can handle it.” i can not.

  4. jenna says:

    Agreed! Good point!

    1. jenna says:

      I meant : agreed! Good point! to Twilight. It got placed here.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I’m probably having a blonde moment but who is the guy in your picture?

        1. Jenna says:

          Hi doc,

          I am enjoying the convo btwn u n narcangel! 😂

          U r not having a blonde moment at all.

          He is not well known. He is a critically acclaimed foreign character actor, a playwright, a theatre actor, a professional equestrian, and a human rights activist. His educational background is MBA. He is 41. In addition to admiring his acting skills, education level, social advocacy, and love for animals, i like his rugged looks.

          My ex narc has rugged looks too, in addition to other positive qualities like hard work, independence, self-reliance, determination, and drive towards his career. Of course, he has narc traits too. That is why i had escaped him, was hoovered, and now we are platonic, text only friends. I will never be intimate w him again. I do not initiate the texts but i do reply. It was a long process which took abt 2 yrs, but i have learned how to protect myself. I added the last part just in case some pple r reading my post for the first time, and may think i am still w him due to his looks. I am not.

  5. Morning sun says:

    “The Mid-Range of our kind and especially the Greater revel in the imposition of lengthy monologues where we espouse our views (often stolen from listening to others) for the purposes of ensuring you bask in our brilliant rhetoric. Speeches will be made from our armchairs as if we were delivering the Gettysburg Address.”

    True. Only I mostly got the N’s “good old days” stories from when he was younger… it was like he was trying to imprint himself on me, to make me a repository for his personal memories, like an external hard drive of some sort.

    So much makes sense now that I used to puzzle about. This site is exactly what I need at the moment. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a place of healing, it’s more like attending an autopsy performed by a Lecteresque pathologist… or staring at a Will o’ the Wisp within the abyss. It reminds me somewhat of House of Leaves.

  6. Amani Tahoun says:

    Thank you for this informative blog .I like the respectable language that you use to describe the victim. This helps me as a survivor to know my weak points and to work properly on them .

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  7. Diva says:

    The devil doesn’t come dressed in a red cape and pointy horns. He comes as everything you’ve ever wished for ……Tucker Max

    Happy Halloween……..Diva

  8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Listen, I know I’m late to the party but I would like to say I nominate myself to be president of the Small Penis Humiliation Club. I think I’ve mastered the art of that lol.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      President HQ

      Presented with a small penis, I suggest staring at it for several seconds, squinting while leaning in, then looking up at him with a straight face and asking him if he brought his own tweezers or should you use yours to jerk him off with. Alternatively you can express sympathy at it having been blown off but thank them for their sacrifice for their country and offer a discount to massage the stump. I think I’d make an excellent Treasurer.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        NarcAngel,

        I freaking adore you lol! You would make an excellent treasurer. We appear to have some similar tactics. I prefer to never express sympathy thought- I’m more about humiliation, looking completely bored, or laughing.

        You would be surprised at how much boredom seems to work. The problem is that…at this point…I’m not acting.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          President HQ

          Oh I assure you it has never been mistaken for sympathy and I can be much harsher. Not limited to words (and thats all I will say on that).

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        NarcAngel,

        That’s the spirit! I’m just going to call you Mistress NarcAngel ;). We could go with Mistress or Master….whichever you prefer lol!

        1. NarcAngel says:

          President HQ

          Its Goddess.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        NarcAngel,

        Oh snap! You totally made me get a flashback (but in a funny way) – my ex used to call me that all the time when he was worshipping. I kept thinking where the fuck was he getting this from? I looked into it at the time and realized that in that genre of porn they are usually calling the women “goddess”…

        But you… you are goddess. 😜😎😘

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        NarcAngel,

        I’m not myself tonight 😛😜

        It’s dedication hour lol!

        https://youtu.be/wt-tHcQR67Y

      5. Yolo says:

        Narc Angel as illustrated in your words below. I can assure you that words can appear harsh but, you there’s some empathy and concern for the person to move past victim to victory. I personally miss your bad coo comments and find they have value. ( narc in me) NOT, I hate seeing the power they held and continue to hold over us.

        Narc Angel (DLS 2/ 2017)
        ” I find it interesting that Empaths only think its fucked up beyond comprehension after its exposed. Not that it was an over the top unicorn type fucked up fantasy at the time, and you had feelings it was off but ignored them. Nope, a love beyond all others and you only deserved it. And the best part is they still believe it exists out there. Now thats fucked up beyond comprehension because all subsequent romantic relationships will fail if thats your new standard. You were duped yes, but you failed yourself also when you thought something was off but bought in anyway. There is accountability on both sides. Stop giving Narcs all the power by being the victim and letting them believe their illusion was perfect. It wasnt. No wonder they believe theyre God.

  9. Petals says:

    Oh God, I’ve seen these people…the kind who can listen attentively to someone blathering on about their trip to the dentist (or something equally inane). I’ve often wondered whether they were just as bored as I would be and were just excellent at hiding it, or if they actually cared about the topic they were listening to.

    If they actually DO care…wow. That’s such an alien way of thinking that it’s mind-boggling to me. Such patience.

    If you’re saying something worth my time, I’ll listen. What most people are saying…isn’t.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Petals
      Speaking for myself – I am usually bored by the stories people tell me. Very rarely do I care at all about what they are talking about. I listen though and try to keep up with the details because the story is important to the person telling it and that person is important to me. I know they want/need to tell it to someone and listening is an easy service I can provide to make them feel appreciated and cared about.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Windstorm2

        What??? Youve just been pretending to care about me? You take key words from my posts and mirror them in a response to make me feel appreciated and cared about? What next? You dont really live in Kentucky and there arent two versions of the Canadian anthem? Geez, you think you know someone virtually………

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          NarcAngel
          Where did all these accusations come from? What has triggered this lack of trust?

          Did you not see my post where I confessed one of my conversational disabilities? There’s some defect in my brain that makes it impossible for me to lie. (I know – anyone who’s lived with narcs will have a hard time believing such a statement, but it is true). I can not TELL the truth, but I can NOT deliberately say something I know is false. Believe me, this is a horrible defect in conversations! Maybe part of why I have such social anxiety!

          So, yes I’m from Kentucky and I can’t believe you haven’t googled your own anthem by now, just to see for yourself! I mean, it’s YOUR anthem!

          And to clear things up, I wasn’t talking about anything you say here or anyone else says here that is serious and important. I was answering a comment on the type of people who listen and show concern when people are talking about boring details from their weekend or their trip to the dentist or what they had to eat at a restaurant including what they said to whoever they were with. THOSE stories are tedious and boring, but I still listen because I care about the person and it makes the person feel better to tell their story to me.

          And if you tell me all about your new boots, how much they cost, where you bought them, when it was and who was with you, I’ll be bored and won’t give a damn either – but I will listen, smile and make appropriate comments because you must need to tell this story to someone and I do care about you! ❤️

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Windstorm2

            Well there it is-second paragraph: “I can not TELL the truth”. Sigh.

            I guess youll be passing on lunch as youre getting your fill of word salad and probably dizzy from the circular conversation.

            Bahaha…you know Im just teas……………wait a minute! Youre not really listening are you?!

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Petals

            Haha. I knew it! There can only be one version that mind-numbingly boring.
            Glad to have it confirmed as you cant believe everyone here (side eyes and head tilt to Windstorm).

      2. Petals says:

        Windstorm-Well, that makes more sense than actually being fascinated by another one of Grandma’s stories from little Johnny’s birthday party in the 1970’s. Thanks.

        NarcAngel-Yes yes, it was all a lie! ESPECIALLY the part about there being two versions of the Canadian anthem; that was the biggest lie of all! 😀

      3. K says:

        NA
        You are a riot!

  10. NarcAngel says:

    Amateurs lol.

  11. robins359 says:

    Diva: .I am pleased she is back as she makes me look good!!!!!……Diva
    You don’t need ME to make you look good. . . you just ARE!

    1. Diva says:

      Hey RS….I have my moments….thank you for noticing…..not many do!!!!!…….Diva

      1. robins359 says:

        I notice. . . it’s like looking into a mirror! LOL

  12. robins359 says:

    I am starting to think I have led a sheltered life…it’s that fear of missing out that haunts me!!!!…….Diva

    I KNOW I have led a sheltered life. I want to see as much as I can now. Not as much time to waste as there once was!

  13. robins359 says:

    “K” and Diva: I simply MUST look this up now!!!

    1. K says:

      Diva
      robins359 joined the “Twink Club” ….FOMO. K

      HG
      I know you are not a member, but I am trying to manipulate (lie) and salami slice Diva into joining the “Twink Club”, so I lumped you in with the rest of us to make “The Club” more alluring. However, she is resisting my machinations, so I will need to switch tactics. She is quite the challenge.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Ha ha, I like your style.

        1. K says:

          Thank You, HG!
          I have learned quite a bit from you and it is time to practice my lessons.

          Welcome to the “Twink Club” robins359! “The Club” is the playground for all the A-listers.

          1. Diva says:

            Hey K….The A listers?????….That’s me out for sure!!!!!! I wouldn’t get past the bouncers……although if I really wanted in……I would find a way!!!!!…Diva

      2. RS says:

        FOMO… what does that mean? I tried to look it up but couldn’t find anything.

        1. K says:

          RS
          Fear of missing out.

          1. RS says:

            🤦‍♀️Thank you!

          2. K says:

            My pleasure, RS!

      3. Diva says:

        Hey K…..Now that made me laugh out loud….nice try…….however, I am far too busy on the naughty step at the moment…… and to be honest I would be worried about lowering the tone of The Club…..especially now since HG is being touted as a member!!!!!!……Diva

        1. robins359 says:

          I changed my mind about going there. . . once an image is in my mind it never goes away! . . . by the way. . . I am well known for changing my mind. Always second guessing myself. Not proud of this, but it is what it is.

          1. Diva says:

            Hey RS……..Well I am glad you changed your mind about not going there…….it’s not the worse trait you could have………I am the opposite……once my mind is made up (and it might take a while) it’s almost impossible to change it……stubborn as a mule!!!!……Diva

          2. robins359 says:

            Maybe you can give me lessons?

          3. Diva says:

            Hey RS….I am going to have to say no to your request……..I wouldn’t want to change you!!!!!……Diva

  14. Sillyolperson says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Apart from being friends with my narcissist, I was also friends with his ex partner (the mother of his daughter)! Yes, I know!
    I listened to the two of them, independently….. finally, my head went off the Richter scale! I just couldn’t take anymore!
    I’m pleased to say, both have not been in my life for over two years now! Thank goodness! They were both as toxic as each other! She ended up with anxiety, depression and other mental issues because of him! She doesn’t know what he is, only he is full of himself!
    His “golden child” daughter has mental issues as well! She has developed narcissist traits now ! I can see a lot of her dad in her!
    It’s such a vicious cycle!
    Anyhoo, I’m glad I’m out of it! I’ve been on your blog now for roughly 6 months and I have learnt so much. I am eternally thankful and grateful for all your knowledge! You have awakened my senses, I have become more assertive, alert and I’ve learnt to say “no” ! My health has improved, I no longer suffer anxiety, panic attacks, my immune system has recovered a lot, (it will never be 100%) but thankfully, I’m not on medication!
    It’s all thanks to you …. and your readers for their feedback! I’m still me, but now a person with boundaries….. finally !
    ☺️

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Sillyolperson
      So glad to hear how well you’re doing!! 😊

      1. Sillyolperson says:

        Dear Windstorm2,
        Awe …. Thank you so much!
        You have no idea how much a kind word here an there and your what support means! We’ve all been through it and we all have empathy and compassion for each other! It means so much! I love reading your comments, as we all learn from each other and can see similarities and relate! Being here, keeps me on track! (Deep down one is always scared of being hoodwinked again)
        Windstorm2, you are one very informed, experienced and clever lady! So glad your here!
        Heartfelt thanks
        💜

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Sillyolperson
          Thank you! That’s very sweet! ❤️
          Being here talking to everyone means a lot to me too. The feeling of community and getting to talk to everyone is so supportive and I learn a lot too.

  15. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    I would say later on in the relationship I would zone out more. I just didn’t care. There was no content in his ramblings and if I heard every other word of a story I could construct what actually happened pretty quickly lol. I mean he said it himself many times to me (one of the rare times he was accurate) “I don’t mentally stimulate you.”

    No ya don’t – jackass.

    My personal favorite was when he would like to volunteer lies. Oh and they were dumb lies. “I haven’t watched porn in days” – haha okay but I checked your computers and it says you have been looking at big dick porn, twink porn. and bareback tranny shit for the last three days (at the very least). I just sat there staring at him thinking – wow you’re ridiculous.

    1. K says:

      Thanks for laugh! Dr Q PsyD! Ha ha ha…

      big dick porn, twink porn. and bareback tranny shit for the last three days (at the very least)

      1. Twilight says:

        Diva

        Once seen can not be unseen

        1. Diva says:

          Thanks for that update Twilight…..I am going to take your word for it!!!!!……Diva

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Hey K,
        Sorry for the delayed response. Been really busy over here ah. Anyway lmao I’m glad I have at least entertained people LMAO!!

    2. Sophia says:

      I thought about googling “twink porn” and “bareback tranny” but decided against it. I don’t want my iPad to get the clap. 😂😂😂 seriously though, what the fuck was he looking at?!! 😂😂 (rhetorical question, of course 😄)

      1. K says:

        I did not know what a “Twink” was and I made the mistake of Googling it. Graphic images.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes you did K, stop telling fibs!

          1. K says:

            Thanks for the laugh HG. I was appalled at the images! I didn’t think there would be pics of graphic sex. I really am a “Gullible Tart”.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Yum yum!

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            I wondered what it was, too. Now I’m going to have to google it! Then my 5 yr old grandson will probably pull it up off my phone and ask, “What’s this Grand-maman?” My daughter’d raise holy hell for the next 10 days. She already hates that I’m on this blog so much. She thinks it’s unhealthy. She doesn’t need more ammunition!

          4. K says:

            WS2 and Diva

            If you Google it, be prepared for some “interesting visuals” involving young homosexual men.

            HG
            ha ha ha…It was more like WTF!

        2. Diva says:

          Hi K…..I honestly have no idea either…..I didn’t even bother looking….and normally I look up everything…..but my life is weird enough as it is…….and I don’t want another addiction!!!!!!…………..Diva

          1. K says:

            P.S. Diva
            you will NOT be addicted to this (Twink).

            P.S. WS2
            I do not think this site is an unhealthy addiction. It is quite informative, I you ask me.

          2. Diva says:

            Hi K…..I am still not looking…..I can get addicted to anything!!!!!….Diva

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            Watch out, Diva! You may get addicted to not looking up things!

          4. Diva says:

            Windstorm2 and K…….you have no idea how difficult it is not to look it up….but I am resisting at the minute!!!!! I always wanted a gay friend!!!!……Diva

          5. K says:

            Diva
            you are so dirty that you resemble a zebra. Do it! look it up! You will find MORE than a gay friend. I can guarantee it! K

            WS2, let’s see if she looks it up.

          6. Windstorm2 says:

            Well I finally googled it. The written descriptions were enough for me! Didn’t have the courage to look at the videos! Now I’ve erased my search history and may germ-ex my phone. 😳

          7. HG Tudor says:

            I can hear the Feds on their way…..

          8. Windstorm2 says:

            That Feds have traditionally been the worry here in Kentucky, but my exhusband teases me that homeland security will get me first – or at least my dog – for funneling money to an overseas account. (I had my dog open a PayPal account, in case I decided to consult you.)

          9. HG Tudor says:

            Amused me, so when Rover makes a payment I know it will be you!

          10. Windstorm2 says:

            “Thibaut”. I always name my dogs and train them in French. “Rover,” really! I’m far too bizarre a person to have a dog named Rover.

            It may be a while though. I can’t get the lazy devil to open a Skype account.

          11. Twilight says:

            Windstorm2

            Your comment made me giggle, opening a Skype account.
            I used sign to train my dogs, I had 5 and didn’t have to say a word to them. Made things simple.

          12. Diva says:

            Windstorm2…..See ignorance is bliss!!!!!!…….Sorry…..I can’t help it…..I am not sure that I really mean it, but I do say it a lot!!!!……Diva

          13. Diva says:

            Hey K & Windstorm…….I am more like a jet black long haired German Shepherd Dog than a zebra…….. if you part the dogs fur you will see the odd pure white hair hidden among the fur…..not many will ever see them or even know they exist……you have to look!!!!!

            Now onto that gay friend business…..I finally got my gay friend……I am pretty sure I turned a straight man gay, but in my defense I was very young and I didn’t know what I was doing!!!!…….see…be careful what you wish for!!!!!

            I am still not looking!!!!!…..Diva

          14. K says:

            Diva & WS2
            My MMRN was straight and he is gay now, and I have no defense, except that somatic narcs are sexually fluid, so you are right; we have a lot in common. I thought zebra was apt but maybe the dog analogy suits you better. K

          15. Diva says:

            Hi K….I am working on being more of a zebra!!!!……Diva

          16. Diva says:

            Windstorm2….I guess my addictions led me here!!!! I have learned a lot on this blog….and not all narc related either!!!!!………Diva

          17. Windstorm2 says:

            Diva
            And learning is a good thing. Maybe in time you’ll give up this “ignorance is bliss” idea.

            Every time you mention it, I’m reminded of my parents. He was a lower greater and she a midranger. He often used to say,
            “When ignorance is bliss, ’tis folly to be wise.” One of the wittiest things she every said was,
            “If ignorance is bliss, then (his name) is a blizzard!” He loved to repeat that whenever he was in company and usually incorporated it in a joke that would embarrass her.

      2. Noname says:

        Well… curiosity killed the cat…

        I googled the “twink porn”. Ouch… Lol.
        Diva, don’t worry, you won’t be addicted to it. Go ahead. Lol.

        I didn’t google the “bareback tranny sh*t”, because it even sounds like a hell and I’m not sure I want to know the juicy details. Lol.

        1. K says:

          Welcome to the “Twink Club” Noname! Diva is just dying to join, too! I am an empath so I can feel it in my bones. Ha ha ha.

          1. Diva says:

            K…..you have me sussed….I can not deny it…..I can think of nothing else……it’s literally killing me……I have even cleaned the toilet to try and get my mind off it…..that’s when I know things are bad!!! Why is it even called Twink….I don’t even understand that?????…..I am starting to think I have led a sheltered life…it’s that fear of missing out that haunts me!!!!…….Diva

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            Diva
            I’ve wondered about the name too. When my daughter was in middle school (11-13). She used the term “twinkies” to describe her close friends- “twins”. That memory makes this term particularly disturbing – but not enough to clean the toilet!

          3. Diva says:

            Windstorm2…..”but not enough to clean the toilet”……..that made me smile……we understand each other!!!!!….Diva

          4. K says:

            WS2 & Diva
            Diva think of Twinks as soft, delicious, cream filled deliciousness and then Google it.

            Let’s see if this machination works.

            P.S.
            I hate cleaning the toilet.

          5. Twilight says:

            K

            I just gagged.

            I never googled so my membership to this club is nullify.

          6. K says:

            Twilight, I completely understand; I gagged too.

          7. Windstorm2 says:

            K
            Just as a useless fact: twinkies never go bad. There have been some found after 50 years and they are still perfectly edible and good. Makes you wonder about the chemicals they are made with!

            I have actually met women who say they enjoy cleaning their toilets – hard as that is to believe. These women both cleaned theirs completely every single day. They said they loved how the porcelain shines and the clear blue water. Surely there must be a named disorder for that!

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Blue water?

          9. Jenna says:

            Yes hg, the cleaner is sometimes blue. Hence, the blue water. You’ve obviously never cleaned a toilet in ur life!

          10. HG Tudor says:

            That’s common.

          11. NarcAngel says:

            HG

            So is using one you commoner.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Using the toilet?

          13. Windstorm2 says:

            What’s common? You cleaning the toilet?!? Don’t you have minions for that?

          14. HG Tudor says:

            No WS2, having something which turns the water blue. Yes, the housekeeper keeps the Golden Throne gleaming.

          15. Windstorm2 says:

            I was always the toilet cleaning minion in my marriage. Thinking about this has dredged up a humorous memory.

            About 4 or 5 years after I moved out, I had to go back in the house for some reason (it was my house). Although he still lived there, it was a disastrous wreck. When I went in the master bathroom there was a carpet of what I assume was some type of black algae covering the inside of the toilet bowl – 2 inches long!! When I flushed the toilet it waved back and forth in the swirling water, like tall grass does in the wind! I think I flushed the toilet two or three times just to watch it undulate back and forth. I’ve certainly never seen anything like it before or since!

            He has always had an uncanny ability to ignore what he doesn’t want to acknowledge and pretend things are like he wants them to be. I assume he just ignored the idea of cleaning the toilet and pretended it didn’t exist (along with cleaning anything else in the house besides his clothing). That more than anything else is why I had to leave him. I just can’t ignore reality and live in another persons fantasy. When it gets down to it, I think that’s the fundamental problem many of us have with our narcs.

          16. Windstorm2 says:

            Here we have bleach tablets to go in the toilet tank that color the water a deep blue. That way you know when to add a new one- the blue color fades as the tablet is used up

          17. HG Tudor says:

            Bleach ought to be applied every day as a matter of routine.

          18. Windstorm2 says:

            That’s the idea with the tablets. They continuously release bleach for about a month until they dissolve and the water is no longer blue. Then you know to replace them.

          19. K says:

            WS2, HG & Jenna
            I heard the same thing about McDoanld’s food, as well. Franken-food. I hate cleaning the toilet but if people enjoy that, then more power to them, I guess.

            For the record my toilet water is clear (not blue) and I only use baking soda, vinegar and citric acid (vitamin C) to clean it.

          20. jenna says:

            K,

            “For the record my toilet water is clear…”

            Thx for the clarification!!
            Lol!😂

          21. Diva says:

            Hi K……”Diva think of Twinks as soft, delicious, cream filled deliciousness and then Google it.” …………I switched off on the 6th word!!!!!… That comment didn’t work!!!!!……Diva

          22. K says:

            Diva
            You are such a juicy target and I can’t resist the urge to tease and provoke you, and I am an empath. Just sneak a peek…do it Diva…you know you want to…it is tantalizing and tempting…isn’t it? You are curious and want to open pandora’s box. Come on join the “Twink Club”. K

          23. Diva says:

            Hey K…..you could be a bad influence……but I have never been a “follower” or a club member (well apart from this one I guess)……..in any case I prefer to look at my own stuff!!!!!!………..Don’t ask!!!!!!!…….Diva

          24. K says:

            Diva
            We, Dr. Q, Noname, WS2, HG, Twilight and I, are all part of the “Twink Club”. Sophia doesn’t want to join because she is afraid her iPad will get the clap, fair enough. However, you know you want to…you don’t want to miss out, do you? K

          25. HG Tudor says:

            I’m not in any Twink Club, thank you very much.

          26. robins359 says:

            I want to join!!! Where do I sign up?

      3. Jenna says:

        Diva,
        “… i always wanted a gay friend…”

        One of my best friends frm high school is gay. He has the best fashion sense. We used to shop together all the time.

        And one of my hair stylists is gay. He is the best hair stylist i’ve ever had!!

        If anybody needs a fab hair stylist, try to find one who is gay. U won’t regret it!

        1. Diva says:

          Hey Jenna…..I am so jealous…….it is unusual to find anyone admitting to being gay here…….Diva

      4. Noname says:

        It seems we’ve joined the “Curiosity kills everything” club, girls. Lol.

        What next are we going to explore, huh?

    3. Jenna says:

      I looked up ‘twink porn’ and ‘bareback tranny.’ I still don’t understand it. Results given are to watch the video. I’m not gonna watch!
      Unless… it has hg in it! 😆
      Jk hg i know u r hetero!

      1. Jenna says:

        All of a sudden i’m feeling somewhat of an appetite for hg…
        What’s wrong w me? He’s evil!

        1. K says:

          jenna
          Evil is handsome and seductive.

          1. Jenna says:

            K, maybe it’s all the sex talk w hg in ‘dirty little secret’ that’s making me feel this way…

      2. NarcAngel says:

        A video of HG in anything sexual would break the internet.

        1. RS says:

          It would be worth the risk!!!

          1. jenna says:

            HG, looks like many of us want to see u in action. How does that make u feel?😄
            In fact, i would pay to see it. The mystery of ur sexual olympics intrigues me…

          2. robins359 says:

            Indeed!!! He talks the talk, but can he walk the walk? LOL (talk is cheap)

          3. jenna says:

            Robin,
            Lol!

        2. Jenna says:

          Narcangel,
          Lol! I have a feeling they’re out there. Only we would not know it’s him!

        3. K says:

          ha ha ha ha….especially if he were in twink porn.

      3. Dearheart says:

        NPDs are equal opportunity sex fiends. In my experience they will have sex with any one/age/race/gender/genus that feels good or suits their agenda.

    4. jenna says:

      Doc,

      I think i’m turning into a narc. I met a really kind, compassionate handsome man in grp therapy. He was there for depression. He’s most likely a narc. He’s been flirting w me. My partner is currently neglecting me. So i thought what the heck lemme text him.
      I think this will help me get my mind off ex narc who i still love but don’t contact.
      Half way into the convo, i give it to him straight since flirting already started a few months ago:

      Me: U wanna see a cute pic of me?
      *(Note: cute but decent pic)*
      Him: yes
      Me: only if i can see one of u
      Me: a shirtless pic
      *(He is tall 6 feet w broad squared shoulders which i like – don’t like rounded shoulders on men)*
      Him: u wanna see something even better?
      Me: yes
      Him: like dick pics?
      Me: noooooo
      Him: lmao

      Omg what a turn off. I’m starting to hate him now lollll!! I like seeing a built chest but what makes them think we wanna see ‘dick’?

      I’m having trouble getting ex narc out of my mind. I thought this wud help but it didn’t. I’m like hg – not satisfied w any one of them fully. I feel empty inside, like a narc. I am a narc.

      My lovely friends, pls don’t judge me. I am missing ex so much i thought this wud help. It did not. I know i’m playing w fire. One narc after another. I’m dead!

      Should i post this or not? What the heck, post…

      1. jenna says:

        I should become a lesbian. This will solve my prblms. Actually it won’t. Because there are lesbian narcs too. I like men but i hate looking at men’s genitalia. Is this normal? I love a man’s jaw line, adam’s apple, shoulders if broad, chest (if slightly built but not overly done), abs, happy trail, but not genitals. Genitals simply gets the job done lol.
        Why did he have to ruin it by asking me if i wanted to see ‘dick’ pics? Does he actually think women want to see this?!!

      2. jenna says:

        I feel guilty. I am crying. I should not have texted the new man. I’m just trying so hard to get over ex narc. But it’s wrong of me.

        Why do they do this to us? I escaped ex but i still think abt him. I don’t want to. I’m so emotional. 😢
        Like gabs said, i wanna be a narc too. I don’t want to feel anymore. No more feelings. Damn these feelings.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Jenna,

        Dick pics ruin everything lol. No one wants a dick pick- only for blackmail. Well, maybe if you’re a homosexual man then you would want it lol.

        You aren’t a narc lol! Look at you – feeling all guilty – seeeeee?

        1. jenna says:

          Doc, good to know ‘dick’ pics ruin it for u too. Why do they think we wanna see it? I find it repulsive tbh.

          Hg, do u ever post ‘dick’ pics on the dating websites u register? I hope not. I don’t know what kind of woman would like to see that?

          I even dislike using the word ‘dick.’ I prefer ‘private area’ or ‘genitals’ lol! That’s just my personal preference though. I know it’s totally normal to use the word ‘dick’ and am passing no judgement, just to be clear. In fact, whenever doc uses it, it makes me lol so much, not to make light of her ex psychopath’s adventures. 😅

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Already answered this question some time ago. No, I do not. I am not an epsilon semi moron.

          2. jenna says:

            I must have missed the answer. Sorry to be redundant. Anyways, good to know! ‘Epsilon semi moron’ made me lolllll!!!!

          3. NarcAngel says:

            HG
            Epsilon semi moron

            Is that what women who send nudes are?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No.

          5. Twilight says:

            Jenna

            This is my opinion only

            A man who wants to send those kinds of pictures is in a class below sewer slime. I don’t care if he has the body of a god.

          6. robins359 says:

            I agree!!! He used to send me naked pictures all the time. He loved doing it the most when he knew I was with friends or family. He had me sending him pictures of myself naked also. “your body is beautiful, nothing to be ashamed of”. I am ashamed now. . . very ashamed. Why did I agree to stoop so low?

      4. Noname says:

        My co-worker (female) practices her writting English using various world chat apps. When I asked her “Is it effective?”, she said “Oh, yes! Try it!”. She recommended me the best (according to her opinion) app and I tryed it…

        The guy from USA, after a couple of common phrases and questions and without any warning, presented the detailed photo of his genitals to me and then asked “What do you think about it?”
        I said “I see the small red round lesion near the radix of your penis. Palpate it and tell me whether it is painful or not”.
        “Painless…Why?”.
        “It seems you have a primary syphilis, man, so put your pants on and go to see a doctor right now”.
        That guy ended the chat.

        That was my first and last experience with a world chat apps. Enough. Lol.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ka-boom, major wounding.

      5. Noname says:

        It wasn’t my intention to wound that guy, Tudor. I wasn’t annoyed, or irritated, or shocked. I could say nothing and just disconnect, but I know that the primary syphillis is curable, so I decided to give the useful advice to that guy at least.

        To accentuate the seriousness of his problem, I chose to express my advice in the rough manner. I hope it worked and that guy went and got the required medical help.

        1. Jenna says:

          Noname,

          I am glad u warned him abt possibly having an std so that he may seek appropriate treatment.

          But i am also glad u wounded him (tho that was not ur intent) because him sending such pics is disgusting.

  16. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    It pays to be a good listener. You catch inconsistencies lol.

  17. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    …And that is why he never knew who he was with for four years lol. That man knew nothing about me. As more time passes … I find that there are times it feels like a bad dream…a distant memory and then other times it feels so recent I can relive it all over again and wanna vomit.

    I remember my midranger never listened to anything. He always looked zoned out and distracted. All he heard was my tone and he would constantly say something about my tone – my voice – to calm down (plenty of times I wasn’t yelling). Ugh…. I can see the ugly look on his face as he would cringe when I tried to communicate something to him and all he would walk away with was “change your tone” …..

    1. Sophia says:

      The instances when it was my turn to speak my MRN would do he sane thing! I’d say, “can you repeat what I just said because it doesn’t seem like you’re with me?” Half the time he’d hiss back some of what I said, the other half he’d laugh at my question.
      What an asshole in hindsight. I gave him passes because I truly have ADHD. I often zone out even when I’m trying hard to listen but I catch it and ask for a repeat, which he never enjoyed. I wasn’t doing it on purpose though. I should have just let him go on. Ha

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Sophia you are too funny. I zone out all the time and I can’t help it unless I’m on my meds lmao! The struggle is real when you are talking to someone really boring lol!

  18. JUSTSAYNO says:

    Thank you Tudor King, this is so right and you are pretty marvellous with all your observations. I feel sure that this is better than any therapy as it really hits home.

    “Instead, you coax people to share, not so you can elicit information to use against them, but rather to aid your own understanding” I must say I find myself doing this all the time and had never dreamt that anyone was eliciting information from me. Although I have had tons of examples; boss, girlfriends, father, brother, ex mother in-law, severely disordered ex-boyfriend the last one.

  19. Diva says:

    “In the world of the empath, listening is worse.”……

    I fully agree with this article and that is why I state so often “ignorance is bliss.” I have listened intently and heard many things from the mouths of narcs that I now wish I could forget…..the only purpose these narc conversations now serve, is a warning and reminder to never go back for the rerun…….

    “the way we interrupt you and talk over you.”…….

    If you have every found yourself stating something like this……..”excuse me, do you mind letting me finish my sentence since I gave you the courtesy of letting you finish yours?”……….rest assured you are dealing with a narc…….although you won’t be allowed to finish that statement without being interrupted either!!!……..Diva

    1. K says:

      Thanks, Diva!
      I love practicing my narc lessons with you; it is so fun.

      5 conversational derailments is about the narc maintaining and sizing control. 3. Interruption: You will not be able to finish what you are saying because of our repeated tendency and need to interrupt you. K

      1. Diva says:

        Hey K……practice as much as you like……I am learning in the process too…..and our like minded humour is just an added dimension, that makes the harsh realities of what we have all endured, more bearable…….Diva

        1. K says:

          Hey Diva, I think RS is back! K

          1. Diva says:

            Hi K…..Yes I had noticed…..it was hard not to!!!!!!…..I am pleased she is back as she makes me look good!!!!!……Diva

    2. robins359 says:

      The previous owner where I work was a narc. He used to say this all the time!! His wife is (she worked there also – they both recently retired) is the one of the most wonderful woman I know. I asked her if he was like the way he is at work, at home with her. She said “oh no, he is wonderful to me! He just has so much stress on his shoulders running this place and he has very little patience”. I miss HER but HIM. . . so glad he’s gone! He liked to make his employees cry and feel small.

  20. CouriousCat says:

    I read the above reply, and what comes to mind is this: “everyone’s crazy except me and thee and sometimes I wonder about thee”.

  21. Windstorm2 says:

    I am an excellent listener, and my narcs love the attention and appreciative fuel that I provide, but I have learned to not commit these sins. I will interrupt my narcs by saying the end of their stories in advance, if I’ve heard them “ad nauseam” or say the punch lines of their jokes before they get to them (only if we are alone, however, I don’t embarrass them in front of others). But I also do not pretend to be interested, if it is an oft told tale.

    I certainly will not listen to abuse or put up with hurtful behavior. I will generally give one warning, that if they continue, I will leave. Then I will get up and leave where ever it is, if they don’t stop.
    This one took a long time for my exhusband and two narc sons to internalize and I left a lot of places early – even my oldest son’s wedding reception. No telling how many times I’ve heard, “Youre being irrational! That’s crazy!” To which I respond deadpan with zero emotion, “Yes, I am crazy. So learn how to deal with it.” It took a long time, but they are all intelligent men and did learn.

    1. Tappan Zee says:

      WS2— …love the attention and appreciative fuel that I provide…

      WHY??? sacrifice yourself at the alter of abuse? narcissism is like fire. you are skewering yourself and spinning over its flames like a rotisserie.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Tappan Zee
        I just now saw your response, were you saying I am sacrificing myself to narc abuse? I would have to disagree. While I have certainly suffered narc abuse for much of my life, I no longer do. I am currently happy and independent. I am not skewered or being cooked.

        You compare narcs to fire. I would not disagree. But while fire is always dangerous, it is often beneficial. I love a good fire. Especially at night. I love to watch how it changes and colors as it consumes its fuel – feel it’s heat warm me.

        I heated my house with wood for over 30 years. And I can see the similarities with a narc relationship. It takes a lot of work, the heating is both unstable and unreliable. It creates a lot of debris and ashes that must be constantly cleaned up and taken out. There is the constant risk of not only being burned, but setting the house on fire.

        In a way you become a slave to the fire because it requires so much time and attention. You have to constantly work to have enough fuel and this is often exhausting. Certainly the proper dry and seasoned fuel must be provided or it will fill the house with nasty smoke or go out altogether and leave you cold. Very narc-like now that I think on it!

        I no longer am willing to do all this to heat with wood, just as I am no longer willing to put up with all the abuse and work of living with a narcissist. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like being around the occasional fire, feel it’s warmth and watch it flicker, blaze and change color. I do still like a fire, just like I do enjoy my narcissists- in limited amounts, and when I choose. No real danger involved. I have enough experience with both to keep from being burned.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Windstorm

      I understand your position, as I too am fine with providing them with attention and fuel as I do others (what can I say-its just in me to give lol) unless and until they become abusive and/or I lose interest. No harm to myself is the first rule. This will be unimaginable though for some until they have reached a certain point because most will be attributing this to intimate relationships with a narc, but it can be accomplished-especially in family and work situations.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        NarcAngel
        You are completely right. Sometimes I forget that so many here have just or may not even have left their narc. Even if they have narc family, they may not even have realized it yet. We all tend to think others are like ourselves.

        You and I have been around narcs all our lives. We’ve learned how to have fun playing with them and not get hurt (much). People may not realize when I talk about maintaining a relationship with my exhusband, it’s definitely not sexual. We haven’t had sex since 2002 (thanks be to God).

        It worries me sometimes when someone will want to be friends with their narcs like I am, that they dontt realize you can’t be friends with one and be intimate. As empaths we bond thru physical intimacy. I don’t think an empath can help but love someone we have sex with. Maybe normals can, but not empaths.

        Once that feeling of love resurrects it triggers the emotional thinking and we get trapped again. You have to be able to walk aware from a narc with no regrets if you never see him again. If you’re tied to them by your emotions, they will sense it and the cycle of abuse begins again.

        Sorry, I need to shut up and get back on the road. Want to be in Kansas before the little rodents go to bed!

        1. K says:

          WS2
          You are right; lovesex is so dangerous.

      2. Tappan Zee says:

        NARC ANGEL– This will be unimaginable though for some until they have reached a certain point because most will be attributing this to intimate relationships with a narc, but it can be accomplished-especially in family and work situations.

        ^yes that!

        *thankyou for knowing me better than i know myself*

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