As an aside, since other names are being mentioned, a reader e-mailed me to tell me about Matt Lauer being fired following an allegation of sexual misconduct (with suggestions it was not an isolated incident). I hadn’t heard of Mr Lauer but I understand he is very well known in the US. Nevertheless, what caught my eye was the tweet from The Donald about it.
“Wow, Matt Lauer was just fired from NBC for “inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace.” But when will the top executives at NBC & Comcast be fired for putting out so much Fake News. Check out Andy Lack’s past!”
Accordingly – here is the latest news (which I am not going to comment on one way or the other) but instead I will link it to me and the provision of Fake News. An excellent nugget.
The problem is that most of the research on psychopathy is done with people who are in prison. There isn’t as much out there on people who fly under the radar and who basically don’t end up in prison.
Hi Dr H Q, I find your answers very interesting . I watched a recent documentary on TV here in the U.K., a guy was doing an experiment on psychopaths brains ( with their permission) scans of individuals in prison and all diagnosed as psychopaths. He was a doctor / psychiatrist of some sort and also studying science . All the scans showed their brains were different , so this was hard evidence as it was very plain to see on the scans . If this evidence is out there , actual physical evidence such as brain scans , I’m not sure why it’s still a topic of nature versus nurture ? However what was very interesting was that the Dr/scientist carrying out the experiment also had a scan and to his shock his brain was the same as a psychopaths. This led to a follow up interview that involved his family etc discussing his personality traits and they all spoke of his traits that were clearly not ideal, for want of a better description . However since he had grown up in a very loving , warm , nurturing family environment , surrounded by positivity . He had married had a family and a very successful career and had no idea that his brain was different . However both he and his family could identify traits that he has that show that he was lacking in certain emotions . This clearly could have gone either way. He himself admitted that his thought process if not channelled correctly could have easily become violent .
Scarlet – I remember the documentary you describe – fascinating.
On why there is still the nature v. nurture debate, it must be asked – from when are their brains structurally different?
Brain structures can change over time due to different environments – every time we learn something, we are effectively changing our brain structure – so how many other people whose brains match prison inmates are walking around in free society managing to operate under the radar.. and can we blame structural differences for behaviour..?
Dr HQ, what about people who suffer from delusions or hallucinations? How is their behaviour treated by the court system? Bc as HG points out, & my experience would support – some narcs are delusional – if our perception of reality is so warped that leads to criminal behaviour.. should we be held responsible..? I think paranoia and then stalking behaviours come to mind as these people behave due to their warped perception of reality…
I mean, I figure you have a better shot in cases where the person has schizophrenia or bipolar disorder but I mean it’s not even as clear cut as that…
Things that are considered would be:
Did the person understand/know that the act was lawfully wrong?
Did the person understand/know the act was morally wrong (according to society)?
Note: I know that things get tricky when someone knows and understands that something is/isn’t lawful or moral.
Did the hallucination, delusion directly lead to the crime he/she committed?
I am not a forensic psychologist but I was originally interested in going in that direction. That is a specialty in itself. Kinda like how doctors have cadiologists and anesthesiologists…. you get the idea.
That has been brought up in many psychopathy articles I have read. I mean there is a great deal of evidence that supports how psychopaths brains are structurally different.
Yes, I also read articles on the matter. However there is not one decisive opinion on whether they are or not morally accountable for their actions. That’s why I wanted to hear HG`s opinion.
HG, I have question.I have been doing a lot of thinking, that maybe narcissists and sociopaths are a necessary evil for a greater good, or maybe I am wrong. Morality is a very complex issue.
However , my question is , if narcissists and sociopaths are formed by both genetics and environment, and no child consciously chooses to become like this, can narcissists/sociopaths be held morally responsible for their actions?
Because depending on their type, some of them are very aware that the things that they do are wrong, however they do not have the emotional development necessary to act in a different way… I am very much confused. Could you please share your opinion on this matter with me?
There is considerable force in your first statement.
I find your proposition in the second statement a fascinating one which is worthy of considerable thought and discussion and beyond the time that the blog affords, but I commend you suggesting it. I will simply answer this, at this juncture – we are not morally responsible from our perspective because of course we are morally bereft and lack accountability. Might we then be viewed as morally responsible from the perspective of others? Some will says that we are, but I see force in an argument that says, no, we should not be viewed as morally responsible. As you identify, morality can be a very complex issue and there is no grand arbiter of what is morally right or wrong.
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I have the biggest smile on my face right now…..
Before HG’s wires cross – he hasn’t got anything on you 😉
Saved yourself there Doc. Just!
Oh, I know. I’m no idiot lol. LMAO
Come on, I can give you a playful poke. 🙂
Easy Tiger.
As an aside, since other names are being mentioned, a reader e-mailed me to tell me about Matt Lauer being fired following an allegation of sexual misconduct (with suggestions it was not an isolated incident). I hadn’t heard of Mr Lauer but I understand he is very well known in the US. Nevertheless, what caught my eye was the tweet from The Donald about it.
“Wow, Matt Lauer was just fired from NBC for “inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace.” But when will the top executives at NBC & Comcast be fired for putting out so much Fake News. Check out Andy Lack’s past!”
Accordingly – here is the latest news (which I am not going to comment on one way or the other) but instead I will link it to me and the provision of Fake News. An excellent nugget.
You’re not playing in the little leagues here buddy lol!
No but you can be a cheerleader for me doc! Give me an H! Give me a G!
As long as I don’t have to dress like one. I’m totally in.
We can discuss that.
Sometimes, the ODD inside of me gets the best of me lol!
Playful little creatures we are…..hehe
Know that I just controlled myself from saying something…
And they say ADHD people have issues with disinhibition…pshhhh
Plowing down stereotypes left and right lmao.
Dr. James Fallon is awesome!
Dr. James Fallon!!
Narcissists are bloody burdens
The problem is that most of the research on psychopathy is done with people who are in prison. There isn’t as much out there on people who fly under the radar and who basically don’t end up in prison.
Hi Dr H Q, I find your answers very interesting . I watched a recent documentary on TV here in the U.K., a guy was doing an experiment on psychopaths brains ( with their permission) scans of individuals in prison and all diagnosed as psychopaths. He was a doctor / psychiatrist of some sort and also studying science . All the scans showed their brains were different , so this was hard evidence as it was very plain to see on the scans . If this evidence is out there , actual physical evidence such as brain scans , I’m not sure why it’s still a topic of nature versus nurture ? However what was very interesting was that the Dr/scientist carrying out the experiment also had a scan and to his shock his brain was the same as a psychopaths. This led to a follow up interview that involved his family etc discussing his personality traits and they all spoke of his traits that were clearly not ideal, for want of a better description . However since he had grown up in a very loving , warm , nurturing family environment , surrounded by positivity . He had married had a family and a very successful career and had no idea that his brain was different . However both he and his family could identify traits that he has that show that he was lacking in certain emotions . This clearly could have gone either way. He himself admitted that his thought process if not channelled correctly could have easily become violent .
Lizzy Bordan (however you spell her name) was a relative of his lol.
YES I forgot about that , bloody hell !!
Scarlet – I remember the documentary you describe – fascinating.
On why there is still the nature v. nurture debate, it must be asked – from when are their brains structurally different?
Brain structures can change over time due to different environments – every time we learn something, we are effectively changing our brain structure – so how many other people whose brains match prison inmates are walking around in free society managing to operate under the radar.. and can we blame structural differences for behaviour..?
Dr HQ, what about people who suffer from delusions or hallucinations? How is their behaviour treated by the court system? Bc as HG points out, & my experience would support – some narcs are delusional – if our perception of reality is so warped that leads to criminal behaviour.. should we be held responsible..? I think paranoia and then stalking behaviours come to mind as these people behave due to their warped perception of reality…
Interesting discussion!
Nuit Etoile,
I mean, I figure you have a better shot in cases where the person has schizophrenia or bipolar disorder but I mean it’s not even as clear cut as that…
Things that are considered would be:
Did the person understand/know that the act was lawfully wrong?
Did the person understand/know the act was morally wrong (according to society)?
Note: I know that things get tricky when someone knows and understands that something is/isn’t lawful or moral.
Did the hallucination, delusion directly lead to the crime he/she committed?
I am not a forensic psychologist but I was originally interested in going in that direction. That is a specialty in itself. Kinda like how doctors have cadiologists and anesthesiologists…. you get the idea.
Thank you for that, Dr HQ
I was tempted to go into neuropsych.. decided it took too long – I take my hat off to you!
When weighing decisions there is evidence to suggest that they look at what they can gain not what they are going to lose or the consequences.
Another argument can be made – Psychopaths respond to punishment differently.
I feel like an argument can be made regarding disinhibition…..
The fact that many are extremely impulsive and that can lead to extremely violent acts.
Very few mental health conditions can lead to a successful insanity defense.
The law holds them responsible because they have the capacity to distinguish right from wrong yet choose to do wrong.
That has been brought up in many psychopathy articles I have read. I mean there is a great deal of evidence that supports how psychopaths brains are structurally different.
Yes, I also read articles on the matter. However there is not one decisive opinion on whether they are or not morally accountable for their actions. That’s why I wanted to hear HG`s opinion.
HG, I have question.I have been doing a lot of thinking, that maybe narcissists and sociopaths are a necessary evil for a greater good, or maybe I am wrong. Morality is a very complex issue.
However , my question is , if narcissists and sociopaths are formed by both genetics and environment, and no child consciously chooses to become like this, can narcissists/sociopaths be held morally responsible for their actions?
Because depending on their type, some of them are very aware that the things that they do are wrong, however they do not have the emotional development necessary to act in a different way… I am very much confused. Could you please share your opinion on this matter with me?
There is considerable force in your first statement.
I find your proposition in the second statement a fascinating one which is worthy of considerable thought and discussion and beyond the time that the blog affords, but I commend you suggesting it. I will simply answer this, at this juncture – we are not morally responsible from our perspective because of course we are morally bereft and lack accountability. Might we then be viewed as morally responsible from the perspective of others? Some will says that we are, but I see force in an argument that says, no, we should not be viewed as morally responsible. As you identify, morality can be a very complex issue and there is no grand arbiter of what is morally right or wrong.
Ha,ha! And the most amazing thing is that the more we help them and are there for them, the bigger burden we are!
Conversation between my narc mom and me –
Me : “Mom I need your help..”
Narc Mom : “Godddd!!!! YOU’RE TAKING MY LIFE OUT!!!”