The Wrong No Contact

THEWRONGNO CONTACT

No Contact.

This is what anybody who has been a victim of our kind must achieve. Whether that status of victim stems from being a friend to a narcissist where you are taken for granted, used when the narcissist needs a lift or someone to moan to or whether it is the beaten down and trampled Intimate Partner Primary Source who was wife, boyfriend or partner has endured and suffered extensive abuse, no contact is the antidote.

Building that robust and effective wall of no contact can be difficult. It is time consuming, requires rigour and perseverance and not only are you trying to repel the advances of the narcissist who is trying to breach your no contact regime, you also have to fight against yourself and your emotional thinking which is trying to make you breach no contact as well. Indeed, it is often your emotional thinking which proves to be the harder enemy to conquer and it is not a one-off battle. Your emotional thinking, because of who you are and the emotional infection your engagement with the narcissist has caused, means that this is an ongoing battle which requires your repeated vigilance. Through the application of understanding and building your Logic Defences, the task does become easier, but it is not one which goes away. Like any wall, it must be checked, maintained and patrolled, otherwise holes and breaches occur and the narcissist will impact on you once again.

Time and time again I see people who think they have put in place no contact and they have not. Sometimes it almost beggars belief that the victim thinks they have established no contact – it is obvious they have not. In other instances you could be forgiven (if forgiveness was something I gave) for thinking you have implemented no contact but in actual fact you have not. There are many instances where people think they have instigated no contact and all they have done is embark on The Wrong No Contact. Here are just a few of the many ways in which you might be getting no contact wrong and the risks that come with this.

  1. Looking At Social Media

Just because the narcissist does not explicitly know you have looked at his or her social media does not mean this is no contact. Indeed, we rely on you doing so and expect you to look at our social media, that is why in certain instances you are not blocked from looking at our Facebook account, Twitter feed, Instagram and so forth. We want you to look at it. Just because you are not interacting directly with us, just because you are not commenting and we are not replying, just because you are not adding likes – this is not no contact. If you are looking at our social media you are likely to see indirect jibes made about you, Relationship Bulletins about your replacement, reminders of the golden period and even direct attacks against you. This will result in :-

  • a risk you will be upset, hurt, angry
  • the maintenance of the emotional infection because you are thinking about us
  • a surge of emotional thinking which may cause you to contact us to attack us for our barbed comments towards you, to seek answers when you are upset about the reminder of an anniversary or similar
  • stopping you from moving forward

2. Not Blocking Our Number

You may think that it will be the first thing you will do when you commence no contact. You block our number from your telephone and mobile phone so that we cannot call or text you from the relevant number. Of course we may get around this by using a different device therefore that is why you are better served by changing your telephone numbers, but if you do not change the numbers then you ought to block the new number of ours which appears and keep doing so, like a matador dodging the on rushing bull each time to avoid harm.

Nevertheless, the number of occasions I see people who claim they are no contact but they have not blocked our number is higher than you might think. These people think that if they, as victim, do not contact us, then that is no contact. No, it is not. Of course, those people who do not block the number are giving in to their emotional thinking because they WANT the narcissist to contact them.

If you do not block our number, this is not no contact. One of the easiest hoovers for us to perform is to text you. It uses no effort, it brings with it a reduced consequence of wounding (say compared to ringing you on the telephone or seeing you in person) and allows the drawing of fuel. If you do not block our number, you are lowering the hoover bar to such a low level that hoovers are more or less inevitable.

The emotional thinking of victims tells them things such as :-

  • It is over, there was a ‘final discard’ he will never contact me anyway;
  • If she does text me, I won’t reply and that will wound her, so actually I am ‘winning’;
  • There might be an emergency and therefore I cannot block him

Utter rubbish.

There is no such thing as a final discard. We will contact you, subject to the Hoover Trigger being activated and the Hoover Execution Criteria being met. If you do not block us, this is going to happen. You will be hoovered.

If you allow a text through, you are maintaining the emotional infection and you will suffer a surge in emotional thinking which may very well result in you responding and before you know it, you are not only providing fuel but you are being drawn back into the Formal Relationship. Months later you will ask ‘how the hell did that happen?’ Every text which arrives adds more and more to your emotional thinking until such time that you can no longer resist. Oh, I hear your protestations that you can resist but i have witnessed such resolve melt away. If you are playing Russian roulette and pull the trigger once and do not blow your brains out, you have survived. Pick the gun up again and again and again and eventually you will kill yourself. This is the similar effect of repeatedly engaging with us by allowing those texts through – you WILL succumb.

So what if there is an emergency? I know you are kind, decent and honest but we are no longer your concern in that respect. You need to remind yourself that you have no obligation towards us (of course our perspective will make us tell you differently) and therefore that False Suicide Power Play Hoover is not something you have to deal with. If you co-parent establish a mechanism whereby the narcissist e-mails routine communication to you. You tell the narcissist in advance that you will check the e-mails once a week at a set time  and never deviate from this. This way you cater for communication regarding the children but only expose yourself once a week to potential hoovers. When the narcissist realises this is being done, see how the hoover attempts diminish. If you need a mechanism for emergency communication, tell the narcissist to contact a third party who will then contact you. Use this gate keeper.

3. Keeping our telephone number

You may say that you will not use it and therefore think that this is no contact, but once again, this is not no contact. With our number sat in your phone, even if you have changed the description to ‘Arsehole Number One’ , ‘Shit 4 Brains’ or ‘Narcopath’ you are creating problems :-

  • You see the name and number and you are then reminding yourself of us and thus this is a form of Ever Presence ;
  • You are leaving open a gateway. There will be an occasion when your emotional thinking surges and causes you to try to contact us. If our number if there you will use it and message us or ring us. If there is no number, you cannot call us.

Do not come up with the nonsense of ‘I have memorised the number so I will remember it anyway so what difference does it make if I keep the number in my phone?’ Bollocks. Your memory is fallible and over time if you have not used our number, you will eventually forget it altogether or at least get some numbers mixed up. If it is still in your directory, you will ring it.

Delete that number. Do it and do it immediately.

4. Talking to friends and family about us

You may think that because you are not engaging with us directly then this must mean no contact is in place. It is not in place if you continue to talk about us to your friends and your family. This is causing you to engage with us, albeit indirectly. All this does is result in :-

  • You continuing to think about us with the consequential impact on your emotions;
  • The continued feeding of the emotional infection which you should be purging, not feeding ;
  • Allowing your emotional thinking to surge with the risk this may control you once again and you end up contacting us or succumbing to a direct hoover with all that follows from that

It is of course inevitable that you will discuss the situation with your family and friends especially when you do not understand what you are dealing with. However, once you realise you are dealing with a narcissist then there does not need to be any more discussion. If you are not sure whether the person is, do not discuss it with your family and friends, they invariably have no idea whether the person is or not, they have no expertise. Indeed, they may well be revelling in joining in the ‘narc hating’ sessions which are actually not helping you at all. Alternatively, they may well be sick of hearing you going on about him or her and want you to shut up, but tolerate it out of a sense of loyalty. If you are unsure, ask me and I will give it to you straight, one way or the other.

Once you know, you go.

No more debating it with your best friend. No more mulling it over with your football mates after the game in the pub. No more ‘ifs and buts’ discussions with your parents. This person is a narcissist and you are not to dedicate any time to discussing this person. If you have to discuss an arrangement concerning the narcissist because they are collecting the children from your parents, then that is allowable but keep it to that. You do not need to tell people what the narcissist did or said. All you are doing is repeating this person is a narcissist, you already know this, they already know this, so why keep going on about it?

You do it because your emotional thinking wants you to do so. It wants you poring over the latest misbehaviour because it craves the horrified gasps from your friends or looks of disapproval from your mother. You do not need these responses.

Do not talk about us. Explain to your friends you do not want the narcissist spoken about to you. If they try to do so, politely explain again that this person means nothing to you anymore and therefore there is no need to talk about them.

5. Watching what we are doing

You may make the intelligence agencies proud of your covert observation of us as you watch where we go, who we are with and what we are doing. You do not need to do this. Again, once you know what we are, get out and stay out. Yes, I understand it is so tempting to know what we are up to, are we seeing someone else, what does he or she look like, why are we going to these places but all you are doing is succumbing to your emotional thinking which is conning you into maintaining a link with us.

Your emotional thinking will tell you that it is permissible to engage in this behaviour because you are not contacting us directly, you are merely observing. These are examples of your emotional thinking conning you into thinking this stalking and observation is a good idea

  • You are gathering evidence to tell other people what we are doing to confirm what you have told them previously (you do not need to – you know what we are, that is all you need, you do not have to persuade other people)
  • You are gathering evidence for a court case (you do not have to do it – hire somebody to do this or if you cannot afford to do that, have a friend or family member do it – also question whether you really need to this evidence)
  • You want to know who the narcissist is seeing so you can warn this person about us (part of your decent nature but unnecessary – you owe the new person no such obligation to warn then and in any event it is unlikely you will be believed because of the smearing we will have done against you)
  • You just need to know for your own piece of mind (utter nonsense, you do not need to know at all)

Recognise these sleights of mind by your emotional thinking and act on them.

If you keep watching us, all you are doing is

  • Creating harmful emotions that impact on you
  • Keeping the emotional infection alive and growing
  • Causing your emotional thinking to surge so you contact us directly
  • Being spotted by us and suffering a hoover (benign or malign)
  • Being spotted by us and being on the end of a restraining order or similar for harassment etc

These are just five examples of The Wrong No Contact. There are many more. Be alert for them, recognise them and understand why you are not implementing no contact. Stop letting your emotional thinking con you.

Once you know, you go.

Get out, stay out.

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305 Comments

  1. Although I found your remark about Jesus very funny HG, I also found it rather disrespectful towards Giulia.

    I was always told that you should argue with arguments instead of making fun of somebody’s believes. That isn’t very classy i.m.h.o.

    1. On the contrary, I was reinforcing his miracle working powers by attesting to them. In my cellar.

      So, apparently it wasn’t classy but you laughed all the same?

      1. Nope. you made a disrespectful remark. It was a cheap shot and you know it.

        You can find a remark witty and even cleverly found and therefore funny, but it can be inappropriate at the same time, especially as you are the boss here and you were marginalizing her.

        That is a discussion trick that is often used by people: make fun of a persons believes and you minimize the point they are trying to make about something else.

        But I don’t have to explain this to you, you probably know all the tricks in the book by now.

        1. Nonsense. An unwarranted attack was made (which you are oddly silent about). I dealt with that.

          I then responded to a comment made by NA and with humour.

          So I am apparently disrespectful but you are not disrespectful for finding my apparent disrespect amusing. So much for your empathy for the person whose beliefs I apparently disrespected.

  2. Does a Former IPPS in the devaluation tier ever get replaced with someone else, particularly if there are shared children with the N? My ex and I have been divorced 2 1/2 years – its been brutal because we share small children and they play sports so I have to be in his presence on a weekly basis, sometimes multiple times a week. I left him, rather swiftly and abruptly, upon realizing the extent of the dysfunction (with the help of others).

    He’s already re-married to a woman 15 years his junior (she was their daycare instructor while we were married) and she’s now pregnant (of course) with their first child. He’s forcing our children to call her Mommy – going so far as to not permit the new wife to answer the children if they refer to her as anything but Mommy. (this was one of the things he threatened me with during the split — “Do you want your kids to have a new mommy?”) Obviously this is terribly hurtful to me but I have not reacted (to him) other than to express to my children that I do not agree with what they are doing and that they will understand more fully when they are older.

    Am I forever consigned to this position based upon the fact that I can not go full no-contact, or do you think he will eventually lose interest if I follow the above suggestions?

    1. Hello Maeven, yes they do and you already have been. You are the former IPPS and he has a new IPPS through the person he has married.
      I think what you are actually asking is “Will I as the mother of my children be replaced in the eyes of the narcissist as their mother?” – yes, but that is just part of the manipulation. You will not be replaced in the eyes of others and your children.

  3. I think that people who are trying to find a silver lining in your actions are still very much in denial about the true nature of narcissists…

    ^ really @our core it seems; denial, utter refusal to see things as they are and people for what they present. we want the lining to be all pretty and whatnot. it is not. what is that? i know “simply” it is our ET. but what is our incessant need to deny reality? prove something is a way when in all sane perspectives, it is not. i am guessing it stems from childhood trauma. we want to close our eyes and scream nanner nanner this is not real. this is not happening. this is not true. because the pain of truth, well hurts. it is painful.

    1. Yep Trappan Zee we even deny our denial ;-).

      I’m amazed though by the amount of traumabonding I see on this website with regards to HG.

      A narc is a narc is a narc. Even a helpful one.

  4. Such a funny conversation between HG and “his girls”!

    I really hope MLA will resist the temptation to bow to HG’s wishes and won’t answer his persistent questions about the way she was hoovered ;-).

    Is this kind of ignoring you a (slight) narcissistic injury HG?

    1. No. But ignoring my questions which are design to assist your understanding is injurious to your progress.

      1. I understand HG. The fact that it’s possible to hoover someone means that you haven’t gone no contact. He found the chink in her armor and used it. Or maybe she left it there on purpose, waiting for him to find it.

    2. 1. That is a stupid idea
      2. We are here to learn & heal.
      3. MLA is a tertiary source, which means,
      HG would gain no fuel, nor wounding
      What-so-ever.

      1. 1. No it’s not. A narc can be wounded by something as small as an eyeroll and they hate being ignored so my question is completely valid;
        2. Agreed. Who says we aren’t?
        3. This is not true, even a bell boy who is just passing by can give a narc some fuel. Everbody can. And they can also take it away or wound him.

  5. HG? If you decide not to keep an appointment / date, but want to see that woman again at another time, but you don’t want her to have a say in this, but just do as you wish, and don’t want to have to explain yourself – would you just send a text message or e-mail instead of calling? Or would you call nonetheless to hear the reaction? (When fuel is not why you cancel but you simply want to do something else).

    1. Assuming this is occurring in the seduction period I would call the person, out of courtesy and explain why the appointment cannot be kept and then re-arrange.

  6. Dear Mr Tudor,

    We needed this. This is crucial and an absolute must.

    A thousand thank-you’s for this “piece of gold” advice

    This, along with all your magnificant work, deserves a standing ovation 👏

  7. Dear HG, why some narcs hoover indirectly before making a direct contact? I mean, posts on their public social media – everybody see it but only victim knows what does it mean. Is it testing the waters? My narc always goes the same cycle after disengaging – direct contact after weeks of playing indirect games. Is it typical for every narc or just for a specific school?

    1. It will gain Thought Fuel and is also done to test the waters to see what reaction (if any) is forthcoming to avoid the risk of wounding from being ignored if a direct approach is made. It also utilises good old plausible deniability “I didn’t post anything to do with you, you are reading too much into things, as you always do. You’re nuts!”

  8. I also think that people who you talk about these things twholat pretending to care can be gossip mongers who can really enjoy watching you hurt. I wanted my last but one Narc to be the father of my children except it didn’t happen. I was in my late thirties and desperate for a family which made it all the more difficult. It was a very painful and abusive relationship and I remember a woman who also worked with us just couldn’t get enough of all the hideous detail and heart break. Even though I avoided him at work as best I could she constantly brought him up looking for every reaction. Look out for your so called friends, and remember there are always people who hold up the motorway because they like to have a long hard look at the tragic car wreck.

  9. Hg,

    This article is very timely for me. I will imagine in my heart that u posted it for me and that u care abt me. Though i know u don’t care.
    I have failed no contact. I knew i breached # 2 as of recent, but i see that i have breached # 3 as well. I have read other comments, and u said it’s ok to talk abt the narc here for therapeutic reasons. So thankfully, i did not breach #4.

    1. Jenna, don’t beat yourself up, you can also see it as studying a foreign tribe or an exotic bug.

      Once I knew about narcissism I saw it everywhere: on TV, in films, in books, at work etc. and I suddenly recognized all of their funny games.

      In stead of feeling anxious and powerless I’m now playing narc bingo with them. Try it, your card will be full before you know it ;-).

  10. For everyone who feels guilty after going no contact (NC), especially with your family:

    I read somewhere that you can read “NC” as “Natural Consequence”, i.e. they brought it upon themselves.

    This always helps me a lot when I feel sorry for my mother and sister.

  11. “Cooling off the mark” Don’t say a word. Stay silent. Lose your voice. Once you know the con and the con game tactics, you decide whether to fall for the tactics or not. Or get control of your own emotions toward someone who only pretended that the relationship was about mutual love. The silent treatment and hoover are just part of a number of tactics to keep you from speaking up, by either ingratiation or scare tactics. What is needed—better sense of what tactics are used, which HG is informative and control of F.R.E.E. Once the hoovers start after “once you know, you go”, you then know you need to be careful with what you decide to say or when to respond to the narcissist. But, there may be times that you need to take a stand and speak, because there is a point that you are actually free and don’t care what hurts or hoovers are tried on you. The tactics stop working, once you know the tactics. Once you know, you spot the tactic during a hoover and without emotion mention how the tactic makes no sense now. Read about fallacy logic. These are illogical/fallacies, another narcissist tactic.

  12. Hmmmmm, and what if you have young children with your narc? Sadly, channels of communication must be left open, surely? No blocking phone numbers, or setting up rules on emails, so all emails from the narc go straight to ‘trash’ or ‘junk’.

    And what of ‘grey rock’ in such situations, where contact must happen or
    be able to happen?

    Your thoughts would be welcomed, HG. Thanking you.

      1. Apologies, you did indeed, albeit briefly.

        To tell the other co-parent that you are only checking emails once a week is additional contact, though, and surely it is inviting their disagreement, and further debate?

        Sadly, the legal concept of ‘parental responsibility’ dictates that there must be some contact between co-parents, including negotiation, throughout the child’s childhood. There are many situations where the narc parent must be consulted – such as choosing which school they go to, if the non-resident parent wants to take them overseas or the resident parent wants to take them overseas for more than 4 weeks; and inform the other parent of any significant medical matters etc.

        These are challenging scenarios for no-contact, as they require multiple communications, and the potential for debate and disagreement. Can you offer any thoughts or advice?

        Do you have any thoughts on grey rock?

        1. 1. Of course but you are dealing with a narcissist so we will always be looking to disagree. You have to make the decision, assert the boundary and forge forward.

          2. Noted. Some of this could be facilitated through e-mail exchange (this medium creates a record and also means minimal fuel is provided) . If there needs to be a discussion, it could be done by telephone conference so you are not present (thus diminishing the extent of manipulation and fuel provision) with the narcissist. If it is really necessary to be physically present (and whilst we will angle for this, you can resist it and still communicate) do so with a third party available. I recognise that where there is court ordered co-parenting there has to be some interaction but you still have plenty of methods of available by which you can reduce the impact on you. Furthermore, you will also see that when these measures are put in place and done so effectively, because the narcissist is not getting what he wants then the interest in the children is likely (not always, but often) diminishes anyway because of course it is not actually about the children.

          3. I am not an advocate of grey rock. You should look for no contact as far as possible and only resort to interaction where it really is absolutely necessary (court ordered co-parenting discussion being one). it is very hard to remain in our presence and not provide us with fuel, succumb to emotional thinking and be affected by the manipulations in some way. Accordingly, you need to have a situation where if there has to be face to face interaction it is very rare and minimal in duration.

      2. Thank you very much for this – very helpful. Truly – the topic of co-parenting with a narcissist is so huge, and so relevant for so many – perhaps it could cover a whole blog post – or even book! Any chance, HG??

        As for grey rock, my understanding is that it is to be used where contact absolutely has to happen – such as the co-parenting of children. It is to be used alongside no-contact, but only where information has to be exchanged.

        I think that the idea of being as boring as humanly possible and writing as little as you possibly can in your communications, has a lot of logical merit. If your communications are concise, factual, dull, then surely you are providing no fuel and the narc would get bored with you?

        1. Work in progress in that regard.

          Correct. Better to have no communications but if there absolutely must be any, keep them short, in writing, factual and fuel free.

      3. I’ve just come across your ‘save the children’ article – excellent stuff. Thanks for producing this.

  13. That s.o.b will never contact me again! Not when my spouse has threatened him personally if he even attempts a Hoover, and especially since he has arrests for stalking and holding someone against their will. ( the narc – not my spouse). He has played the big tough guy on the outside but inside he is a loser punk who would probably squeal from a damn mouse.

  14. Mr HG Tudor, did anyone you had strong feelings for (desired their “quality fuel” in your terminology) suddenly go no contact? And they did it at the very minute you thought you just masterfully “ensnarled” them? You gradually understand that they figured you out, outsmarted and outwitted you; and they plotted their escape so that you are completely out.

    How would it make you feel to be able to see them again, to speak to them again should it ever happen to you?

      1. Mr Tudor, I understand. But what if they did transgress you that way? How would you feel should you suddenly end up with them face-to-face? Wouldn’t it feel wonderful and liberating for you, sir? Thanks.

        1. It would wound and ignite my fury.

          If I then encountered them face to face I would draw them in again so their defences were lowered and at the appropriate time punish them and crush them.

  15. This truly is what I apply every day , it’s been 14 months freedom , however if I ever listened to him or allowed him to contact me I know I would not be free . From the moment I decided he crossed the line I went NO CONTACT , I treated him like heroine one tiny bit and I would be back , one sniff , touch anything at all and I know it , it would be different story . Even down to the letter he sent it went back unopened but the closer I got to the letter as it sat on my fireplace I could feel the anxiety , however I had 100 percent made up my mind not to open it , there was nothing good in that for me , only same old shit and I was done . . I had to stay away and put everything in place to maintain that no contact . I know this is something I will continue to battle with possibly forever , such a shame but my emotions will come flooding back like HG said. I feel so much better now , I think straight , I smile more and enjoy life more , it is so worth the effort . Also a big one for me is people ask me in the street have you seen “him” I politely say oh I don’t consider him anymore but next time you can ask how I am and laugh as they are usually embarressed for asking , it annoys me when people want to know your business !!! It’s so strange but after the long marriage of 18 years when it first happened I actually couldn’t picture him in my head at all I think I wanted to block him so much after the pain he caused , best wishes to you all xxx NO CONTACT the only way because as soon as you listen ………. fuck that x no thanks not taking the chance ever if I can help it . Never ever do the Facebook thing , I hate that crap anyway , but you just have more questions than answers . it would be torture no thankyou . Hopefully you don’t go 18 years like me haha get out stay out now but obviously only when you have had enough , some people need to go a few more rounds before there done … look at me ha xx

  16. I am on a new attempt at no contact.

    This morning I woke up to the text: “fuck you, you ugly bitch”…ahhh to be loved so deeply.

    I made the mistakes the other times to social media stalk him, I think this time I got it. Christ All Mighty, I hope so.

      1. I went NO CONTACT…..i have been posting about it. Reading your Blog is helping me to “get it”…and its working.

    1. i am sure HG want’s you to do no reply but if you do say “sorry this is not your mum’s #”. Never put up with those words ever! If you have done nothing to him you don’t deserve that language or treatment

  17. Star, it is a great mantra actually for everyone. Many narcissists know and don’t go. They keep their secrets going and for at least a time(some longer than others), we are acting on uninformed consent. The narcissists stick around and continue the playact for residual benefits in many situations.

  18. Hello HG. I’m new to the group and am gaining great knowledge and insight from you, so thank you for all that you offer.
    I am reading your book No Contact, and I am on day 72 (when do we stop counting in days??!!) of no contact. However, after reading this article, I find that I do have some work yet to do, mostly on my own brain…. The article does bring up a question for me, though.
    My question relates to social media. It has been his practice to create new profiles to continue trying to monitor me. My “strategy” has been simple thus far… As I became aware of each new profile, I offered no reaction at all except to block the new profile. Last night was the last straw, however. He sent a message from his 11th fake profile to remind me that I’m a whore (alack, I had forgotten…). I finally decided to deactivate my account. So, to my question… When I block or deactivate an account following a breech, does that constitute a reaction or contact in his mind? Does my blocking him or deactivating my account supply him with fuel? Am I back to square one?
    I also have another question, unrelated to this article, that I’ve wanted to ask. It may be answered elsewhere, but I have yet to run across it . Is the level or school of narcissism established from the onset, or does one evolve in his/her narcissism (some never progressing at all and some progressing to mid-range and possibly to greater)?
    Thank you, again, for this blog. I found it just when I needed it most.

    1. Hello S and G, thank you for reading my work and welcome.

      1. The message is a breach of no contact, yes, however blocking or deactivating does not provide fuel. It will wound him and therefore this is the right response. You may think he thinks “ah she is scared of me because she keeps blocking me’ – he may articulate that as bravado but he will be wounded.
      2. You are not back to square one because it is a minor breach. You have not given fuel, you have not been ensnared, but there has been a hoover which has landed and got through no contact. You continue with your no contact and consider whether coming off social media altogether might be better, which appears to be what you have done.
      3. The school of narcissism is established early on, yes.

      1. I appreciate your feedback. I have all sorts of well-meaning advisors who really have no concept of this issue, and their advice has often blown up in my face. I will continue with the walls I have in place and if he happens to worm his way through any of them, I will block that access as effectively as humanly possible. I just hope I don’t unknowingly wander into a sphere of influence… my biggest fear is running into him somewhere. I honestly don’t know what I will do if that happens.
        I’m really glad to have a place where I can see how others have handled situations similar to mine and where I can access the wealth of information you have for us here.

  19. (I’ve aready posted this post somewhere else on your website, but as it is about hoovering maybe this is a better place to ask my question. I hope I’m not pushing my luck though ;-))

    I have gone no contact with my ex-narc (a mid-midranger) 1,5 years ago, after I broke of our relationship with a email in which I told him what I really thought of him.

    He was already love bombing my replacement at that time. This relationship failed recently. She broke it of. He is hoovering her at the moment to get her back as his girlfriend. I’m sure he doesn’t want me back as his girlfriend, but I think he has shelved me as a potential future IPSS.

    I’ve been with a new boyfriend – a non-narc – for almost a year. I posted something about our upcoming anniversary on my social media and wrote how happy I’m with this new man.

    My ex-narc wrote (with a new nickname, as he is blocked) how glad he is that I am so happy with this new man and that he wishes me all the best.

    I know this is a benign hoover, so I’m not responding. I also know he is not really happy for me as he can’t be happy for someone else, but I’m wondering if you can tell me what he is really feeling about the fact that I don’t want him anymore? Is he jealous, angry, annoyed or perplexed? And why did he feel the need to react at all? To show me that he is the bigger man?

    1. He will be irritated, annoyed and jealous of your announcement of happiness (see Jealous Of Your Contentment).

      He did it to draw positive fuel, to lower your guard and for facade management.

    2. Iris, surely the very fact that you’re wondering what he is feeling, and even going to the lengths of asking a narcissist what he is feeling shows that you’re nowhere near no-contact?

      Block that new ID that your ex has, pronto, and delete his comment.

      You have to stop thinking about him. You are giving him mental real estate. Instead, invest your thoughts and your time in yourself, your family, your friends, your new man.

      Your ex is a dodo. Get rid of every trace.

      1. I understand what you’re saying Sunshine and it’s true that I’m thinking about him at the moment, but fortunately not with the same emotions as I used to have. Luckily nowadays it’s more curiosity than anything else and that is why I asked HG about this strange behaviour.

        I realise now that my relationship with my ex-narc was in fact a blessing in disguise. His mistreatment of me got me thinking about my past and about my current relationships, and it is because of his mistreatment of me and the fact that I allowed it to happen that I realised that I a codependent and that I need to work on my boundaries, especially with my family of origin.

        They are the ones that I’m still thing about all the time and they are the ones that make my life very difficult at the moment. My ex-narc is a walk in the park compared to them.

        He is already blocked and deleted, no worries ;-).

  20. You have in great detail warned and advised. This is care revealed, whether you want to admit it or not, unless you are forced to write, which I do not think you would cooperate so thoroughly. Some narcissists have more problems than others and some would not warn anyone ever, even slightly about tactics. A magician never tells, unless he is a mentor for a upcoming magician after he has years of experience and he never tells his audience about the best tricks unless he doesn’t want his audience to be tricked again in the future. Most narcissist don’t care if anyone is tricked, no matter how damaging the actions/tactics are. Maybe you monetarily profit from this site, but some details you could have kept secret and still enjoyed profit. You push to be the caretaker/teacher of your audience. Caretaking, especially extremely detailed, has a reward for the audience and you. I think you might agree that your audience is smart enough to read and understand that this site takes(you take) better care of them through details that you decided to reveal as opposed to too many other sites, which don’t go to such lengths to help the victims. Maybe you don’t want anyone to think that you have some ability to care, even if it is anonymous and remote. What is so bad about having some level of care about outcome for all of us including yourself? We stay remote and we all win.

    1. Viva, it’s like asking a blind man to see. It’s not possible to care if you have no empathy or conscience. Sad but true.

  21. Just been hoovered again, and got sucked back in. After 6 weeks after being out.
    He got what he wanted. 2days of sex, got me to tell him I love him. 2 days later he has started devaluing me again.
    All coz I left the ability for him to text me open. Blocked everything else.
    I finally succumbed, and responded. I tried to show him what he threw away. He suddenly arrived at my house at midnight, and wouldn’t leave until I let him in.

    Even when I did block him on text, he found another way. He’s always found a way to contact me. Even when I was overseas.
    Hence this time I figured no point in blocking him on everything coz he just finds other avenues, and then i think ah well, look how much effort he’s going to. or I just end up getting more annoyed and breaking my no contact. either way.

    I am honestly feeling like the only way out of the grips of this narcissist is to just kill myself. I don’t think I am ever going to get out of this dazed torturous maze he’s put me in, completely. I honestly feel so trapped in this. I don’t know what to do anymore.
    I hate that I sometimes doubt whether he is a narcissist, thats when I somehow let my defences down, and I get hoovered back in.

    Why do I doubt what he is. Maybe he isn’t one. All I want is to be free of this in my heart and mind.

    1. Hello Liv2Love and welcome on board.

      Well done for blocking him but you can see the weakness that resulted from not blocking his text. Therefore this was not no contact.

      When he turned up at your house you did not have to admit him. You ought to have called the police and had him removed. Let him stand knocking at the door, that is your door and remains closed to him.

      I understand your thinking about you may as well leave text open because he will work around it (although you do not say what the other ways he found to contact you – unless you mean turning up in person and I have already addressed that). However, this is the result of emotional thinking. By blocking all technological means and therefore leaving only personal attendance, proxy hoovers or sending letters/gifts to your property you are raising the hoover bar and mean that a hoover MAY happen but it is LESS likely because it requires the narcissist to apply more effort to execute it. If you leave a technological route open to us then you really do lower the hoover bar and hoovers will be much more likely. Block all routes. If he turns up at the house, ignore him and call the police. This will raise the hoover bar and over time he will hoover less and less.

    2. “i tried to show him what he threw away”

      Isnt that the real truth behind why he was not blocked fully and not all the other reasons?

      1. “i tried to show him what he threw away”

        Isnt that the real truth behind why he was not blocked fully and not all the other reasons?

        ^ and the flip side. i tried to show myself that he was good, kind, decent, loving. that he meant something. it was real. tra-la-la. i want it to be REAL. i want him to be GOOD. i want to be WRONG. i want this all to be UNTRUE. i want to be THE PROBLEM. i can fix ME. i cannot fix it, him or this. gaaaaaaaaaaaah.

    3. Hi liv…its a process and for many it can take several times before a victim leaves for good. Dont beat yourself up but instead look at it as a learning opportunity…a step towards freedom. You went back and now youve seen how quickly devalument has started up again. This is validation that youre with someone abusive and it doesnt matter if hes a narc what matters is how hes treating you which is not good. You can get out and will. Blocking fully is difficult bc it means completely ending it but it must be done. Youll get there 👍

    4. Liv2Love

      I’m glad you found this blog! I don’t comment often, but I’m here regularly and its helped me tremendously. I felt compelled to reach out to you when you wrote you felt the only way out was to kill yourself. NO! I’ve been where you are and I promise things will get better! Stay with us, stay no contact, keep reading. Exorcism and Escape both helped me. I would recommend you read all of HG’s work, but start with those.

      Please hang in there for all those who do truly care about you. The Narc does not, never has and sadly, would likely just gain fuel if you attempted to kill yourself over him. Don’t give him any more control. Even if you need to fake it to make for the time being. Seize the power!

      (((HUGS)))

    5. Liv2love, first, I understand how low and powerless and overwhelmed you feel, I’m right there too … it’s very difficult, and I have also felt like ending it all in weakest moments, please be encouraged and know you are so worthwhile and when we feel like checking out it will pass, my heart goes out to you and this ( HG’s narcsite) is the best place to be, breathe in calm determination deep and breathe out wasted empathy on your N .know you’re loved, valuable. We will get through this.

    6. Liv2love,

      Pls don’t even think of killing urself. Don’t allow anyone to have that much power over u, esp not a narc. He wouldn’t even care. U need to prove to him that YOU r the one who doesn’t care. Sometimes we need a vicious devaluation in order to completely block everything. Ur vicious devaluation has arrived. Take the hurt frm it and channel that into complete no contact. Pls stay here and share ur feelings. U will find much support here. U will find answers to everything. U r not alone. I am sending u a big hug. 💗

    7. Please Liv2love don’t do that. Don’t answer the door put some headphones on. If you were staying at someone else’s he would have to go away.No means no. So sorry. I am dreading my next hoover and am using a spider diagram to help me work with my emotions, in the moment while there standing there with the hoover it’s damned hard, but not impossible.

  22. I think that people who are trying to find a silver lining in your actions are still very much in denial about the true nature of narcissists, especially that of greater narcissists.

    No offence HG, but I know for sure that the only reason you are doing this is to show your superiority over other narcissists. Not that I mind though ;-).

    PS: are you named after Henry Tudor?

    1. I agree with your first paragraph Iris.

      It is not the only reason but it is one of the reasons.

      Which one?

      1. HG, it could be some kind of deal with the good doctors. As far as I remember you were forced to do the therapy because only then you would not lose a heritage or denied a great amount of money. Maybe the doctors were of the opinion that writing about yourself in public would help you to change.
        Another reason for your work here: you want to be famous. Most of the narcs want to be famous, that is one of their characteristics.
        Further reason: You are just building your own monument for eternity, you do not want to be forgotten.
        And some day there will be the grandiose finale.
        Whatever it is, it will be extremely selfish.

  23. I am also guilty of not going ‘no contact’ although I thought I had. I haven’t blocked his number as I am curious as to whether he will hoover me and I won’t know otherwise. I’ve told myself I just wouldn’t respond if he did.

    I’m pretty sure he already has as the police got involved (long story) and I asked them to tell him and his new squeeze (one of four he was cheating on me with) not to harass me and gave her full name. I don’t think they realised that I knew her surname. I found it out through FaceBook and lo and behold when I looked at her account a couple of weeks ago his picture was all over it when she hadn’t posted anything since March. It went up a couple of weeks after the police got involved but I had only just seen it.

    Was this a hoover HG? He doesn’t use social media himself and I’m thinking that perhaps he encouraged her to put it up there as obviously someone had been ‘poking’ the account and they guessed it was me. Or maybe I’m just reading too much into it.

  24. And so, dearest HG, how do we know when it’s time to go no contact with you?

    I’m asking in all seriousness – I lean on your work, the interaction here – to replace my addiction, but it is still an addiction.. i feel that now I think of the narcs bc I’m reflecting on the issues brought up – not that it is ongoing for me – as these relationships are in the past..

    Do I need a Tudor Totem to reduce my reliance on you?

    1. Nuit

      Merchandising has dispatched an 8 inch flesh colored Tudor Totem to your address. Watch for the drone and its parcel marked: handle with care.

      1. Oh thank you, NAngel :) just what I need to help me sleep better – plus, less manipulation… wait.. or maybe.. no more worries about silent treatment?
        – talk about comfort crumbs… ;)

        I was afraid I’d joined the ranks of the excommunicated (oops)..

        1. Nuit

          Well Tudor does espouse that you should love yourself first. He just didnt say what with so………

          Btw-the silent treatment is up to you but you may want to cheer yourself on just a little. Instills confidence.