Perfect Sense (To Us)

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“Why do you spend so much time looking at porn?”

“I don’t.”

“Yes you do.”

“No I don’t.”

“Yes you do. I know you do.”

“No you don’t know, you don’t know me at all, that’s part of the problem, if you took some time to know me, you would understand.”

“What’s that supposed to mean?”

“Oh that’s right, pretend you do not know what I am talking about. Absolutely typical. It is any wonder I get so pissed off with you?”

“I don’t know what you are talking about.”

“There you go again.”

“What are you on about?”

“Look, repeating it won’t make it any different. You always do this when you are in the wrong.”

“Hang on, me in the wrong? We were talking about you and your massive porn addiction.”

“Only because you are trying to deflect from what is really going on.”

“No I am not.”

“You just did it again.”

“No I didn’t.”

“Yes you did. Every time I try and point something out to you, you do this, you will never accept you are at fault. You always try to blame me. It is unfair and quite frankly troubling.”

“Wait, wait, this is all wrong.”

“You’re telling me.”


“At last an apology.”

“No, I wasn’t apologising.”

“No I should have known shouldn’t I? You don’t do apologies do you, you are so holier than thou, always so bloody right. Jesus, I suppose your crap doesn’t stink either does it?”

“There’s no need to be like that.”

“Like what?”

“Like that, crude and vulgar.”

“I was just expressing myself.”

“You don’t have to do it like that.”

“Oh so now I am not allowed to voice an opinion.”

“I didn’t say that. Stop twisting things.”

“Ha, you have some cheek haven’t you, accusing me of twisting things? You do it all the time.”

“When? When have I ever done that?”

“Last week, you tried to make to make out that I was at fault for staying out.”

“Staying out when?”

“Last week.”

“I know, but which day?”

“It was night.”

“Sorry, I mean which night?”

“Blimey, another sorry, mind you, you probably didn’t mean that one either did you?”

“Will you stop doing that?”

“Doing what?”

“Twisting things around, making out I am saying things when I am not.”

“But you are.”

“No I am not; you are putting words in my mouth.”

“You did say sorry just then.”

“Yes I know, but it wasn’t an apology….”

“Oh I know that; I have learned better than to expect you to be sorry for the way you treat me.”

“Why are you saying that? Look, please, just stop for a minute, I want to talk to you, have a sensible conversation.”

“Are you saying I cannot have a sensible conversation? Oh that is just charming. I am not the one getting worked up and…”

“Please stop it.”

“Have you heard yourself? You keep cutting across me and now you are telling me when I can and cannot speak.”

“No I am not.”

“Another denial. I swear you forget what you have just said or are you doing it on purpose? Trying to mess with my head are you? That is just sick.”

“Me mess with your head. Jesus Christs! You are the king of the head fuckers!”

“Here she goes, it is all coming out now, she cannot have a normal conversation, oh no, she has to be always right, always high and mighty, she cannot do anything wrong can she?”

“Look, let’s stop this.”

“Well you started it and now when I defend myself you cannot hack it.”

“You are making this about something else.”

“No that’s your tactic.”

“No it is not.”

“It is, you start talking about something and then you turn it into an attack against me.”

“I just wanted to discuss your porn addiction.”

“No you didn’t, you want to wind me up, make me angry and when it doesn’t work you keep on and on at me.”

“No, please, I am just trying to talk to you about something important, I cannot stand it when this happens.”

“When what happens?”


“What are you on about?”

“Oh God, it is so frustrating, why won’t you just shut up for five minutes and listen to me, is that too much to ask?”

“Why on earth should I when you talk to me like that?”

“Sorry, sorry, I am just….look, please,”

“Now you are not making any sense.”

“It is just impossible to talk to you.”

“There you go again, always blaming me when you are the one that cannot even form a sentence properly. I am sick of you treating me like this, telling me when I can and cannot speak, accusing me of things that I haven’t done, it isn’t right or fair.”

“I am not doing those things, please, stop saying I do.”

“But you do, there is something wrong with you, you cannot seem to see it.”

“What do you mean?”

“All this, the endless accusations, the going around in circles and it is not just me that thinks it.”

“What do you mean by that?”

“Other people have noticed it.”

“Like who?”

“It wouldn’t be fair to say.”

“You can’t do that. You can’t accuse me of doing something but not tell me who said it.”

“There you go again, telling me what I can and cannot do.”

“Christ you are so infuriating.”

“And now the insults, nothing changes. You always do this.”

“No I don’t.”

“Oh yes you do. You never listen to me, you always try to pin the blame on me, I can list so many times in the past when you have done it.”

“No I haven’t, have I?”

“Not so sure now are you?”

“It is you, you are messing with my head, I cannot think straight when you play these games.”

“I am not playing games, you do. You started this. I was just watching television on my own and you start up with your usual evening attack on me. It is outrageous the way you treat me. You have the audacity to suggest that I am messing with your head, good Lord, your head is already messed up.”

“No it is not.”

“Oh yes it is, you should see somebody. I don’t even think you realise what you are saying half the time.”

“Yes I do; I am sure I do.”

“You see, you are not sure, you perhaps don’t mean to do it, but you do, you keep accusing me of doing the things that you do and it is unfair. There must be something wrong with you. You need to see a doctor before this gets out of hand.”

“I don’t need a doctor.”

“I think it is for the best.”

“Honestly, no I am fine, I just feel like I am wading through treacle at times.”

“I suppose that is what it is like when you have a mental condition.”

“I don’t have one.”

“You know people who have usually think they do not, that is part of the condition as well. I can tell by the look on your face that this is surprising you but it shouldn’t, I have put up with this for months, you are lucky I have not left you.”

“Left me?”

“Yes, you are intolerable at times.”

“Me? But, but….”

“Sssh, don’t make it any worse, we will get you some help.”

“I don’t need any help.”

“It’s okay, we will see a doctor for you, I will explain everything to him. You need some help and then maybe we can get through this.”

“There is nothing wrong with me.”

“That is what they always say.”

“No, there isn’t anything wrong with me.”

“Look, there is, there is no point denying it.”

“No it is you, not me.”

“Oh here we go again, I thought we were getting somewhere. I thought you might be seeing some sense at last. I am not sitting around listening to you blaming me for your shortcomings. I am going out for a few hours, use the time to sort yourself out. I will be back when I am back.”

“What on earth just happened? That was nonsense.”

“Made perfect sense to me. Bye.”


9 thoughts on “Perfect Sense (To Us)”

  1. I am absolutely speechless as this is the almost verbatim conversation that I have had with my narc husband for years: the honesty and blatant willingness of the non-narc to solve issues and the constant ducking of the narc, the good-will of the non-narc and the malintentions of the narc to twist things around with taking ZERO responsibility or at least look into the issue at hand. It took me 18 years to realize there is something fundamentally wrong in this type of interactions as they didn’t affect me as much until I really wanted something from him that of course I never got and I have been consistently blamed for not having it gotten. Working on freeing myself from this pattern of abusive interactions.

  2. I just got off the phone with my soon to be ex-narc. I needed to talk to him about his contribution to our finances, and I got push-back and resistance, and refusal to take responsibility, and when I pushed right back and argued my case (we are both lawyers) to him he implied that I was acting like I was mentally unstable – “you really need to sort your anger issues out with your therapist and stick with it this time!” So glad that thanks to this site I could see that bit of manipulation and gas-lighting for what it is. It brought back memories of all the years we were together where he would yell and scream his head off at the smallest things, but if I got a little upset over anything, he would accuse me of being crazy.

    He then asked me about the infamous letter that he sent me which I never responded to, the one where he exhibited all of the blame shifting and denial that one would expect of the Mid-Ranger that he is. I told him the letter was Exhibit A as to why I was re-filing for divorce, and he just laughed and said “I knew you would say that!”. But even knowing that, he still couldn’t see the light, the truth of how his actions have hurt me and our kids. He still couldn’t bring himself to write a different letter, one that was humbly repentant and apologetic and took full responsibility.
    I was proud of myself for saving $400 in attorney fees and standing up to him, proud of the fact that I quickly got over my momentary lapse into thinking maybe he is right, maybe I am mentally unstable. But no, I am entitled to be upset when he refuses to contribute financially. In the end he did agree to my request, reason prevailed and the bills will be paid.

    I understand that the arguments are all that connect us now. I understand that the fuel he gained from these arguments is what kept him going all those awful years. I understand now that its not my fault. He just is what he is. I am so glad I am moving on. I am so thankful for all of the insights of HG and all of the people who post comments on this site and shed light into the puzzle that is narcissism.

  3. Grrrrr..this was sooo real HG.. that was exactly how my mid ranger would talk to me..round and round and round twisting things in his favor, not answering the question and no outcome whatsoever, just made me furious…plus his fave line was always “you’re crazy, you need to see a doctor”…….

  4. Speaking of Porn..again, I noticed my Ex GN Narc would alway endulge himself with purchasing Porn on all Religious holidays, Easter, Christmas..and on Sundays. Anyone else notice this?

  5. That looks to me the prior or next stage of the mud story … like the Narc have this converstion and call the friends and family after … ?? Or before ???

    That is the quintessence of an example of dead end and converstion going in circles.

    HG … give us the trick .. how she we go about stopping it before is spins too much ? I think you talk about it in one of your book but I am not sure.

  6. Oh my god. This conversation is such a trigger for me. F’ing word salad.
    All narcs have the same playbook.

    Never again.

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