No Contact Suicide – Part One


No Contact can be difficult to implement. Even harder to maintain.

We are looking to batter down your no contact wall and breach your defences so that we can exert control over you once again. It may be because we want draw fuel from you, positive or negative or we may wish to draw fuel and pull you back into the Formal Relationship once again and attach you to us so plenty of delicious fuel is provided to us. Dependent on our fuel needs, the constitution of our fuel matrix and the school of narcissist that we are, we may dedicate considerable time and effort to knocking down your no contact.

Having worked hard to escape us or, if disengaged, build that wall before the Follow-Up Hoovers start when we turn our attention to you once again, there are many occasions where you commit no contact suicide and bring your own wall tumbling down with next to no help from us.

There are two main elements to this no contact suicide. I explained in The Wrong No Contact that you may think you have established no contact, but you actually have not. With no contact suicide, you may well have actually implemented a robust and solid no contact regime and then, as the song goes, you go and spoil it all by doing something stupid.

Keep in mind that we anticipate the commission of no contact suicide and therefore in certain instances our own behaviour will be adjusted to encourage you to bring about the demise of your no contact yourself.

The first part of no contact suicide concerns you ending no contact by simply contacting us. This is either by messaging us, telephoning us or even making an appearance in person.

This may seem an obvious thing not to do, but it repeatedly happens. Ordinarily, if you have escaped us you will receive an Initial Grand Hoover as we fight to bring you back into the Formal Relationship. This happens most of the time – however if it does not or if it has happened and the IGH failed, we may well be relying on you committing no contact suicide through you contacting us. Alternatively, when we want to hoover you weeks or months after your escape or disengagement and you have put in place no contact we recognise there are ways of causing you to commit no contact suicide. Accordingly, you need to be aware of the ways by which we will look to cultivate an environment conducive to this occurring and also the ways in which you are susceptible to committing no contact suicide.

You also need to keep at the forefront of your mind that we are relying on bringing about  no contact suicide so that you contact us and once that happens we want your emotional thinking to surge (through repeated involvement with us following the commission of your no contact suicide) so that you reject logic and fall prey to just your emotional thinking once again. Then it is all aboard the emotional thinking train on an express route to Narc Town again.

  1. The Need For Closure

Victims have a huge need for closure. Understand this – we will never give it you. However, we know that you want it and therefore you have this need to interact with us for the purpose of understanding what has happened and achieving closure. You preferably want to speak with us, either on the telephone or in person. You are a truth seeker and the desire to find out why we did as we did, why we treated you in  this fashion (and especially if you have not realised what you have been dealing with) means the chances of you contacting us to secure closure are high. We will also bait you in this regard, offering to speak with you so closure can be obtained. We will not grant it you and instead we will give you half-answers, riddles and provoke you so that you keep engaging with us. The repeated engagement will feed the emotional infection, cause your emotional thinking to rise and then we have you ensnared again.

Do not seek closure from us. Make your own closure by utilising my works so you understand what has happened. Ask your questions of me, not of the narcissist you were entangled with.

2. The Desire For Revenge

You have been abused, messed around and humiliated. It is time to kick some narcissist ass and get revenge isn’t it? Why not? After all you have escaped, you understand more about who you are dealing with and therefore suitably empowered you tell yourself that driven by this anger, this hatred you will now make our lives hell.

By all means bring it on.

This is an understandable response, but it will cause you to commit no contact suicide. If you are seeking revenge in the immediate aftermath of disengagement or escape (and by that I mean anything up to 4-6 months afterwards) you will not be applying logic. Your emotional thinking is raging and surging and all you will do is mess up the revenge and become ensnared by us in some form again. You may find yourself back in the Formal Relationship or more likely engaged in trying to land blows against us as we revel in doling out malign hoovers against you, smearing you and pointing to your behaviour as exactly the reason why we got rid of you in the first place.

The desire for revenge is often high. Resist it. If you wish to seek revenge 4-6 months later, when your emotional thinking is firmly under control and you are applying logic, then do so and you will be far more likely to succeed. Yet, if you seek it at an early stage you will commit no contact suicide and with no good outcome for you.

3Returning property/collecting property

We look to leave items of property with you and/or keep items of your property with us so that there is a hook by which we can contact you with the pretence of sorting out this outstanding issue. It is just a way of creating Ever Presence and then having a basis by which we can seek to hoover you.

If you have our property, remove it as part of your purging exercise. Arrange for it to be delivered back to us by courier or a third party. You do not need to contact us to ask do we want it back, you do not need to contact us to make arrangements to bring about a hand over and resist your emotional thinking which will be trying to persuade you to meet up with us like some romantic reunion at Checkpoint Charlie as you hand back a box of possessions and we use the interaction as a prime opportunity to draw fuel from you as you have just committed no contact suicide. We may not even take the goods off you, leaving them with you so we can use the excuse on further occasions.

If you have property with us write it off or make arrangements for a third party to effect recovery and if it is of significance you may have to go to law (either civil or involve the police) in order to cause us to relinquish our hold on the items. Again, our hold is not based on the items themselves (they could be your Barbie doll collection or a sports car) but rather that the item or items  provide a basis for activating a hoover by way of Hoover Trigger and/or because we recognise it will cause you to commit no contact suicide.

Recognise how property will be used against you.

4. Your Replacement/ New Interest

In certain instances we shall parade your replacement (if you were the IPPS) or a new interest (if you are a Shelf IPSS or DLS) in order to cause you to break your no contact. Many times the narcissist, when with a new IPPS, does not want to hear from you as you have been effectively deleted but this parading may still occur because

a. We gain Thought Fuel from imagining your anger or upset at knowing we are with someone else so soon after your disengagement or escape;

b. We want you to break no contact to try to challenge us in some way. This provides us with fuel and enables us to either engage in facade management by being pleasant with you (sometimes the response of upper echelon narcissists) or  allows us to engage in a malicious response to punish you and draw negative fuel.

c. We also want you to break no contact to try to challenge us so it supports the basis of our smearing of you. We gain fuel but we can also show everybody what a wild-eyed harpy you are and how fortunate we were to escape your clutches and find someone who understands us and treats us well.

This parading of the new interest may be done through announcements on social media, appearances at social events and even walking by arm in arm where you live. it is designed to cause you to commit no contact suicide by

a. Having a go at us for dumping you and finding someone else so quickly;

b. To invite your commentary when it is a situation of Have You Seen Who He Is With

c. To try to warn the new interest what they have got themselves into (which invariably fails and backfires)

d. Finding out more about this person

e. To see if we are truly happy with this person – a common fear of the former appliance

Your emotional thinking will con you by suggesting that you should confront us because we have treated you terribly and we should be made aware of this, that you have an obligation as a decent person to warn this fresh victim about us, to sneer at our choice of new love interest when you are far superior to this person and in other ways besides.

Recognise that this is your emotional thinking which is masquerading as logic and reject it before it reaches a tipping point and you become involved again.

Breaching no contact in these circumstances rarely results in you becoming ensnared in the Formal Relationship again (because of course we have someone new) but it provides benefits to us (as detailed above) but it maintains your obsession and investment so that your no contact has crumbled and may never be re-built so that when we do hoover you at a later stage to resurrect the Formal Relationship, it is easy.

5. Provocation Via Third Parties

We will not contact you direct. We want to remain aloof and draw you to us by causing you to commit no contact suicide. It reinforces our perception of power if we can cause you to destroy your own no contact and come to us.

A further way of bringing this about is to say something about you to a third party, knowing it will get back to you. It might be to a friend of yours, a colleague, the children you share with us, another family member or a neighbour. Examples would include :-

“I am rather concerned about Anne’s drinking at the moment and I wondered if you, as her sister, might have a word with her before it gets out of hand.”

“Yes, I have tried to be civil with your friend but every time I go past her house to get to work she opens the window and shouts dog’s abuse at me. I have no idea why she is being like this, but she clearly has some kind of  mental problem.”

“You know Daddy tried to stop me from seeing you because he is jealous of what a lovely time we have together. That’s not nice is it.”

“Well, I do not mind if you go to the concert but your Mum has said you are not allowed to, so you need to take it up with her.”

“I hear she has been looking for jobs with Alpha Corporation. Yes she said she is sick of being taken for granted by you and her colleagues.”

Naturally these will be lies but the intention is for this to be relayed to you and your annoyance at our behaviour, your need to establish the truth and have others knows it (including us) will cause your emotional thinking to surge so you will send a furious text message or telephone us to confront us. Once you do and we gain fuel from your response, we will use various manipulations to keep you engaging as we draw more fuel and feed the emotional infection so you will not let the matter go.

No matter how annoyed you are, how tempting it is to want to put us in our place, this is a deliberate provocation through a third party to cause you to breach no contact and get in touch with us.

There are many other methods that are deployed in bringing about this form of No Contact Suicide but the end game is the same – we want you to make contact with us by message, by telephone and best of all in person so your no contact has been destroyed and we can get what we want from you.

Understand that this is a motivation on our part. Recognise that if we have not directly hoovered you (when you expected it to happen) that we may well be engineering you to commit no contact suicide and familiarise yourself with the ways that this comes about so you can tackle your emotional thinking and maintain no contact.

94 thoughts on “No Contact Suicide – Part One

  1. sushilove51 says:

    sad when this happens. wish u could of ran there. but tgen again they could always attempt it again.

  2. Narc Angel says:

    I admire that you acknowledge you did in fact say pathetic. There were a few other shots at her as well to be honest but I didnt include those. I guess I just found it ironic that you would have that view of her but feel you had to defend Lori because my delivery was not nicer (note that I did not call her pathetic nor is that my view of her). As to your definition of pathetic, well….lets just say it seems to hang heavy with irony. I’ll leave it at that.

    1. SMH says:

      She is not on here, Narc Angel. I had my own conversation with her elsewhere. I answered her questions as best as I could without exposing myself to more stalking and without criticizing her. Lori is on here and I don’t like to see people being attacked for things most of us have done at one point or another. You and I seem to have equally low tolerance for co-dependent behavior. We just take aim differently. I don’t like to hide behind anonymity to attack people. I’ll leave it at that.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Oh but you do. You hid behind SMH when you took a shot at me (through someone else and with a smiley face btw instead of directly to me) by calling me perfect did you not? I’m guessing SMH is not your real name? You also told his wife under anonymity yes? So there goes that. Youre grasping. No need to reply. HG has better things to do and its clear where we both stand.

        1. SMH says:

          I have no idea where you stand. I find your intentions very opaque and I don’t know your story because I have not followed it. But ni modo…neither of us is going to change.

      2. Lori says:


        Lol. Am I the only who doesn’t know what ni modo meant ? I had to look it up lol

        1. SMH says:

          Probably not the only one but it is a handy phrase to know!

  3. SMH says:

    Many, many times. The longest period we went without seeing each other was eight months (partly because I was out of the country for five months) and the longest NC period was six months (during which time he creeped me every month like clockwork). Each time it happened it would shock me because to my mind, we were all done since the NC/not seeing each other periods followed huge blow ups. It’s amazing how many times I fell for it and for the hoovers. But the final time I held my ground. I told him I would think about it and then I watched his behavior for two weeks. When he started repeating the same old patterns, even though we were not ‘together,’ I realized that there was nothing I could do to change things and I declined the FR. But it still took me four months to disengage and I still have no idea if he will try again. I don’t think I will contact him but he might try to contact me. This latest round has only been two months but something has changed for me, I don’t think I am susceptible anymore, and he is in a different country now.

    1. Lori says:

      Wow Smh how many years did this go on for? I don’t think I have this concern in that the Narc says he never goes back (which probably means he hoovers extensively as it’s always opposite land with them) however I tend to believe him. He strikes me as the type that doesn’t like left overs and he’s a good looking man that women fawn over so there kind of is no need BUT you just never know. There are some that go on and you never hear from them or if you do it’s many years later. It really would be a blessing if he’s truly that type but the mere fact that he told me that’s how he is makes me think he’s lying cause if their lips are moving they’re lying lol

      1. SMH says:

        Lori, two years, longest two years of my life! Luckily, I took the opportunity to really screw with his head. First, I told him that I had discovered a lot from Instagram (yeah, let’s be all secretive and then have public social media) and I thought both he and IPPS were in denial. Second, I said, ‘I’m sure you will find someone else. I don’t respect that you live your life this way, but it’s not my life.’ Third, I said ‘I do not want to be in contact anymore – even as friends – as long as you are married. If you leave your marriage, you can contact me if you want to, and we will see.’ Well, he did not listen – he ignored my boundaries and kept on contacting me. That is why it was such a mess in the end. If he had let it go, so would I have let it go. But he tried to flip the script and get control of me again, and I fought back.

    2. Lori says:


      This is a great thread. I learned quite a bit from you. It so great when people share their specific experiences and things that happen on a daily or not so daily basis. This page is awesome when it doesn’t become a grand stand for people to justify themselves. If I don’t like something I just go on.

      Thanks so much for the info you have shared it has been most helpful in pieceing together some things that didn’t make sense. But then again does anything with them make sense ? NO! So… LOL

      1. SMH says:

        Lori, I think some of us have the same sort of narcs. In case you are following the whole IPPS thing, mine lied about his name and his marital status. I did agree to an affair later on but, to be honest, I still don’t care much about that. I felt trapped by his control freakishness and my own weakness, and at one point wrote the IPPS a long letter, which I didn’t mail because I didn’t want to hurt her. But I also felt that telling her was the only way to end it. I even have a draft email to him titled ‘Please Let Me Go!’ It was pathetic (NarcAngel – I can recognize when I am being pathetic too). In any case, I never hid anything from him but it made no difference what I said or did. His behavior never changed.

        I don’t personally know the IPPS and I didn’t even know what a co-dependent was before I read HG’s posts, so I’m not judging. But I think co-dependency can be a temporary state, like attachment (avoidant, anxious, secure). I certainly felt myself losing my identity and being consumed by the narc and his needs for a very long time, though overall I think I am a super empath. I don’t find those two things at odds, just as I can be anxiously attached for awhile and then avoidant. Relationships are just that – relationships. We are not anything without other people, and life is a constant negotiation between their needs and ours, their ways of being and ours. So all of this is situational and it all needs context. There are no rules about how to deal with it in the moment. It’s a process.

      2. Lori says:

        That is correct. Codependency or what appears to be codependency can be a temporary state for some. I am not Codependent in every single aspect of my life. Codependents much like Narcs come in different flavors some are more control driven such as myself. Some appear weak and use the appearance of weakness to control what they are is acutely aware of most people’s motive and most if honest knew they were dealing with a troubled individual early on but a narcissist feels very comfortable to a Codependent and vice versa. This is why they are wildly attracted to Codependents as they feel like their “good half”

        At the end of the day, if you are engaging with them after identifying that they are narcissists you are getting some emotional need met from it myself included. We all like to say oh it’s like a “science expiriment” and I’m in control and I can take it or leave it which is just not true. When we say that it’s emotional dishonesty with ourselves and a coping mechanism used to rid ourselves from shame felt by engaging in something we know we shouldn’t.

        I have really enjoyed this thread and it has been most Helpful to me. Praying I don’t have anymore screw ups but I can’t guarantee that lol. We all do the best we The important thing is that you at least try to get out of it. As long as you consistently try you eventually achieve

        1. SMH says:

          Lori, Yes, that sounds right. For awhile with mine I knew exactly what I was getting from it and why I was in it – because it was superficial, and that is what I wanted – nothing emotionally complicated. I even said to him at one point, ‘not sure who is using whom here!’ I did at times see it as a ‘science experiment’ and was even comfortable being co-dependent because it was so separate from the other parts of my life and because I felt guilty about someone else, so I behaved differently than I normally would. After awhile I was ready to move on (not necessarily with him) but he wanted to keep me trapped in the relationship we had. I might have been happy to stay if not for the narc tactics, which first made me anxious and then simply bewildered me. Indeed I might mess up again too but in the meantime, life goes on and other things and people need attention…

      3. Lori says:

        Just wait once he sees you giving others the attention he believes he is entitled.

        I truly believe fhe narc blocked me from his fake profile because he could not tolerate seeing his friend and I interacting. He has no idea I even know about that profile and that profile is also friends with some of my other friends so he would have blocked me long ago. Nope it was the minute he saw his friend getting my attention.

        I have to laugh like a 4 year old saying don’t see me. He can block all he wants but I know that’s nagging at him in the back of his mind and that makes me smile. They hate it when their own shit gets done to them. Silence actually is golden

        1. SMH says:

          It’s hard to understand their logic sometimes and it depends on the sort of narc, but the timing does suggest that he is wounded by your interaction with someone else, even though it was completely inadvertent on your part. Mine was wounded by something silly that I said. It was completely out of proportion to the offense and led to weeks of silent treatment. That’s when I finally lost my shit (I had already escaped). Back to the co-dependent thing: for two years I didn’t challenge his behavior (he was never violent). When I exited the relationship my sense of self slowly returned. Of course my real self is more assertive and egotistical than my co-dependent self, so I went ballistic at the silent treatment, especially because I had allowed him to hoover, so of course I was also mad at myself. Mine will not know if I am giving attention to anyone else. In fact, I told him there was no one else. I just didn’t want to be involved with him anymore. Ha. Even worse :).

      4. Lori says:


        I so over reacted. I saw the friend request and immediately assumed he put him up to it and reacted.They are both members of an exclusive group I can’t say which one for privacy reasons

        Now that time has passed, I’m pretty sure he had nothing to do with it and that’s the exact problem and why I was blocked from a profile he knows I didn’t know that existed. HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT and that’s why he blocked me. He’s not going to see something he didn’t and. can’t control. He still sees me as his property even in discard. It’s always about the control but my guess is this is eating away at him. He has already likely started a smear campaign but the friend will figure it out. I’m not the one talking about him to him. Helll be the one talking about me and usually he people figure that shit out

  4. Lori says:

    So let my little debacle be a lesson to all of you that if you even suspect you are being provoked DO NOT REACT! I’m not even sure the Narc had a hand in this and I blew it. Don’t do it!!! No matter how tempting

  5. SMH says:

    Mine tries to get me to commit no contact suicide by leaving little hints that he has visited my social media sites. It has never worked. What does work is time – he waits and bides his time until I think enough time has passed that we can be in touch as friends. Then I get sucked back into the FR. Luckily, and thanks to this site, I see it now.

    1. Lori says:

      How many times has he tried that ?

  6. pascaleshealingjourney says:

    Thank you for this post. It’s strengthening my resolve to stay No Contact. 67 days so far

    1. Insatiable Learner says:

      Well done, Pascales! Keep going! I am 8 months NC and I have not felt better since when I first got entangled with the narc.

  7. Lori says:

    Help !!!!’ I committed NC suicide. I need help who this scenario HG or anyone who can weigh in. Here’s what happened

    HIs friend friends me. I accept. I think about it and wonder was that intentional ? Narc has me blocked but has a fake profile he’s not aware I know about. I do not see that profile on the friends friend list. I stupidly send a Text saying I didn’t friend your friend he friended me i had nothing to do with it. Of course I’m ignored. I go back and look and the fake profile is now on the friends friend list. The friend starts liking some of my posts and immediately after the fake profile blocked me! For what he doesn’t even know I know about it. It’s like he couldn’t see his friend talking to me.

    What I’m the Hell is going on here ? Can anyone tell me? Is he going to do something malign? I am not blocked from his phone but blocked on fb

    Ugh I wish I had never texted him!

    Can anyone weigh in on this ?

    1. Insatiable Learner says:

      Hi Lori, no offense and I understand your struggle. I really do. However, here is my honest feedback. You keep saying how you are done with him but continue saying or doing things that clearly indicate you are very much involved. As you yourself stated, you need to get off the crazy train. When you do, peace will start taking the place of chaos, anxiety, and drama. Wishing you strength to put an end to the madness.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      How about stay off Facebook. Its so fucking grade 7 and a Narc Playground, so going there is asking for trouble. Why would you accept a friend request from someone who is his friend to begin with? The answer is not rocket science.

      1. Lori says:

        For the same reason you keep engagimg with Narcs lol

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Hardly. I dont do Facebook or initiate contact with them only to come on here in crisis screaming S.O.S in a desperate bid for attention, but okay-I see you’ve got your fix and all is well again.

      2. Lori says:

        LOL 🙂

    3. Quasi says:

      Hi Lori,

      From reading your post it seems that he still has ever presence with you, as you thought to justify yourself to him after accepting the friend request from the mutual friend. The mutual friend might be in the coterie, it may have been a proxy hoover, to gain a reaction from you.
      Or it might have been the mutual friend being interested in your life. Did you get on with the mutual friend before ? If so I wonder why you were not already friends on fb.
      It may have been a hoover, there was a reaction but that is done now, it doesn’t mean anything in the grand scheme, the only damage it has done is put him back in the forefront of your mind- you can push him out again by returning your thoughts to you! Your Power is where your focus is, point it back to you. Whatever he does now is down to him, you can not control that, but you can control how you react, you can ignore, show complete disinterest. Not react – he can not control you anymore.

      Don’t beat yourself up, just say to yourself well that is done now, what did I learn from this ? Write down your thoughts….
      Start again ! It can and will be done.

      I guess the obvious going forward is delete and block his number on your phone, if you ever notice him unblock you on fb, block him quick. If you do not really see the mutual friend or they are not really important to you I would unfriend them to be honest. Seems harsh but at the moment you probably only want people in your world who support you and not ones who remind you of him, or who could be potentially feeding back information to him.

      Lori, I see you help so many people on the blog with your very kind words, support and guidance; so I hope this has been a help to you. Remember just breath and think what do I need to do for me right now – he can go jump with his dyson!

      1. Lori says:

        I knew this guy before and I now think he didn’t have anything to do with it because it seemed to upset in Mr Narc in the end and now 3 days later it really doesn’t matter. It’s provactI’ve when it happened but now 3 days out who really cares.

        It could have been very innocent or at th very worst provicative by the Narc in which point for him it was successful but I don’t think so I think it pissed him off that his friend friended me. We have at least 40 or mutual friends. I shouldn’t have reacted but I did and I can’t undo it. Just have to move on

      2. Lori says:

        You are a good soul quasi. I definitely screwed up not the first time but hopefully the last

        1. SMH says:

          Lori, Quasi is indeed a very good person. We all screw up and then panic, except NarcAngel because she is so perfect :-).

          1. NarcAngel says:

            I said the same thing others did except that I’m direct and didnt wrap it up in flowers and a bow. If someone needs to be coddled or fawned over to get a message then I guess theyre destined to fall for pretty words and remain narc fodder. Of course some want that ……despite what they say.

          2. SMH says:

            Maybe but maybe too you are far removed from whatever your situation was. Some of us can give good and relatively kind advice while also relating to what the other person posts. I’m not going to leave Facebook just because my narc has a fake profile. Fuck him. He’s already tried to control enough of my life, which is precisely why I wouldn’t give his IPPS my name. All I needed was another pathetic married person creeping me online.

          3. NarcAngel says:


            Yes. Some of you can even shatter another womans life by giving good and relatively kind advice (your perspective) about her husband under the guise of concern, when they are moving out of country and you will no longer be involved. Funny you didnt seem concerned for her when you were involved with him-just after. And when she doesnt seem to “get it” (your words) you declare her here publicly as pathetic. If she were here on the blog would you have called her that?

            Yup. I’m the mean one lol.

          4. SMH says:

            NA, You don’t know the full story but I am willing to accept my part. In the end, as I said to you once before (and as I said to the narc), everyone has the right to full transparency. Far from ‘shattering’ her life, she should feel empowered. I have no clue of the aftermath but I hope she doesn’t get an STI! In any case, I don’t think I ever called her ‘pathetic,’ though she is a co-dependent. See? You call people ‘pathetic’ for acting co-dependent too, dontcha now! Pot, meet kettle…

          5. SMH says:

            NA, I just read over my comments and you are correct that I did use the word ‘pathetic,’ but I meant it in a more generic sense to refer to someone who is unhappy in their relationship and uses that unhappiness to destabilize other people without facing their problems head on.

      3. Lori says:


        It was a screw up alright and when I screw up, i do it big lol. The sad part is I know all of this stuff. I can’t claim ignorance. I know what to do and not to do. I just didn’t do it. This is the power of addiction and obviously this still has its grip on me or I wouldn’t have done what I did. The fact is statistically speaking most victims will screw up many times until one day it’s the last screw up and you officially move on. I think a lot of the moving on aspect is simply a function of time and distance and it’s different for everyone. Everyone had their own bullshit threshold where one day they just move on and don’t look back. That Day did eventually come with Narc 1. It will with this one too

        Thank you for your comfort. Yes we all screw up often many times

        1. SMH says:

          You can take comfort in the fact that your ‘screw up’ probably went right over the narc’s head. I screwed up so many times and he didn’t even react/notice. That was a good thing about him, actually. He was very calm and ignored a lot of what I did/said. Of course the flip side of that is that he was very cold too and would ignore a lot of what I did/said :-). And I did screw up many, many times until the last time, after six months NC when I got over my addiction more or less and escaped.

          Then the hoovers started, and then I wounded him, and then I got the silent treatment, which is when I found this site, and then I blew up, and then he had me on the hook, and then I threatened him, and then I made him do one last thing for me, and then I tried to punish him (do not know if I was successful or even if I am done with that part yet). It was a horrible period and I am forever grateful to HG for this site.

          But you know what? Something even more horrible happened to someone close to me shortly after all of this. It was nothing that I could control and it had nothing to do with the narc and it also took a lot out of me but in the right human way, and it brought me back down to earth and put everything else in perspective. The narc is now just a distant memory. I dream about dead people, but not about him.

      4. Lori says:

        Smh and Quasi

        Why the hell did I think I needed to justify or explain the friend request ? Even if I did friend his friend which I didn’t that’s none of his damn business.

        I realize now that I had such a typical Codepebdent reaction. Dumb da dumb dumb ugh.

        Live and learn

        1. SMH says:

          LOL, Lori. I used to do stuff like that all the time – think I had done something and then explain myself before he even had a chance to accuse me of anything. I needed to learn to keep my mouth shut and my emotions under control.

      5. quasi7 says:


        All we can do is live and learn. You reacted how you reacted, likely as he remains a prominent feature in your mind.. that will change as time goes on and you work on this.
        you won’t gain from beating your self up now.

      6. quasi7 says:

        Hi Narc Angel,

        I don’t want to speak for SMH but I perceived her Comment as a good natured poke.
        Her kind comment about me, is I believe based in our previous conversations where we helped each other and connected through that.

        I agree with you, in that we are all very different on the blog, we communicate how we do. Some are direct and some are not. I believe there is value in all approaches. You are again correct in that people respond and react differently to different approaches.
        I don’t believe any of us should change who we are to suit others. My main thing is, thinking abit more before I comment sometimes.

        I very much value your comments, advise, and guidance… I rather like your wit also. I wouldn’t want you to change your approach in any way shape or form.

        I am told on a regular basis that I am too nice, and I can imagine that some may Percieve my comments and support for others here as disingenuous or too flowery, or whatever they think. Brevity is definitely not a skill Of mine…

        I write my opinions on the blog as they have come to me, how I am on here is who I am. I find some things funny when I shouldn’t, I crack bad jokes, I apologise a lot, I reflect ridiculously often.. but it is just who I am.

        I think our differences bring what the blog needs, lots of different perspectives and experiences. I like what you bring here.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Im not upset with Lori or SMH. What I said in response to the call to weigh in was not even specific to Lori. I would suggest to anyone that Fuckbook is a bad idea and an addiction in itself. If one can break that one they may just have a shot at narc freedom (if thats what they really want). I am what I am Popeye and I calls em as I sees em. Sometimes people dont like that (shrugs) just like the stupid shit I have to read sometimes (cause its a two way street and I love how some others think their comments are more acceptable than mine or not annoying as fuck also). If people dont want to read what I have to say they can always scroll on or say: weigh in except for NarcAngel. I will respect that and not reply.
          I dish it out and I can take it also, but there should actually be a reason besides: I dont like her lol. I am not perfect btw but I am logical and that presents a problem for some.

          P.S Quasi
          People also read more anger into what I say than is usually there. I seldom show anger and rarely raise my voice in real life.

          1. MB says:

            I agree with your advice about Facebook. It is an addiction in itself. It was insidious how it worked its way into my daily life. I ditched it the first day I “met” HG when I read “Ask the Narcissist: The Answers to Your Questions” and haven’t looked back. Thank you for that HG!

            I realized that nothing in my life mattered or was important or real until I got likes on Facebook for pictures and check ins! I can see how outside validation could become a substitute for self-esteem. I can put myself in the Narc’s shoes in that regard although on a much smaller scale. Posting a picture that you think should garner a lot of likes and comments, but there are just…”crickets”. You check to make sure it went up, keep checking to see if anybody pays any attention. It can sting. Going through life that way, every moment of every day doing what it takes to get admiration and attention. Exhausting!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

        2. K says:

          I agree; we can’t all be strawberry ice cream. There needs to be many different flavors so we don’t go stale.

        3. SMH says:

          Yes, Quasi, my comment about you was based on our previous conversations. I wouldn’t say my poke at NA was good natured but it was meant to defend someone else, so I felt justified.

      7. Lori says:


        Exactly fuck him and the horse he rode in on. Damn girl you sassy lol.

        He’s already run me out of groups. He ain’t gettin anymore. I have no freakin idea why I felt I owed him an explanation. I don’t friend his friends they friend me. Hell I didn’t even friend him!

        Some days I’m completely on top of this and do what I’m supposed to do others not so much. I reacted to something that may have not even been a provocation. It’s just that I’m wearing Narc goggles so everything appears that way. Now that initial threat is over? I see it more clearly. I think he got mad his friend friended me.

      8. Quasi says:


        I appreciate that, I didn’t realise there were other situations involved.
        I really value you and your perspective and kindness.
        Thank you.

        Narc Angel,

        I didn’t feel that you were presenting as upset by anyone in your comment. I only perceived that you were justifying yourself and your approach, using the approaches of others as a comparator. I was not sure of the motivation behind this, so I wanted to respond with my opinion. As stated I believe we are all just who we are here, and that the different approaches and perspectives bring a good balance to the blog.

        I feel that I have always been genuine on the blog, I have had posts expressing my inner thoughts as they appear to me, apologising and justifying myself. I was called out on it a few times in a very supportive way and helped to understand exactly this point.

        We are individuals, unique, and have our own world view and experience and way of communicating.

        I value you and your posts on the blog, I value your perspective. I also feel that you have shown me great kindness at times and I have really appreciated your words. The way you communicate is your way, people see what they see. Just as people will view my posts how they see them. Some may like what I say, some may think it’s a load of bollocks..

        It will always be my view that our lives are more meaningful, due to the pure nature of our ability to look at a situation from an extensive range of perspectives, our ability to think of alternatives. Our empathic lens enables us to see the world in a way narcissists will always be blind to. The cognitive ability to see differing perspectives does not cover the expanse of views that empathy can afford us.

        I really like seeing different communication styles and perspectives on the blog. I believe it is a very positive thing.

        1. SMH says:

          Quasi, I will always remember the conversation we had and the moral quandries we both found ourselves in and our different ways of dealing with those and our respect for each other’s decisions about our particular situations. I think we all try our best to do the right thing. No one who posts here is pure or perfect. The more people can see this, perhaps the less judgmental they will be…

          As an aside, thank you HG for letting these comments through quickly. It feels more like a dialogue than voices in the wilderness :).

          1. NarcAngel says:


            But you said I was perfect!!!

            I’m teasing you. Laugh. I am.

          2. SMH says:

            I know you are, Narc Angel. I’m just jealous! 🙂

      9. Lori says:

        Oh my lol

      10. Lori says:


        Totally get it. These people lie their asses off about their marriages and/or relationships. The wife is mean, it a loveless marriage, they are gonna get divorce the list goes on and on. I know this all too well I have been both the ipps and the ipss.

        Don’t let anyone here try to shame you that’s total bullshit. I’ll say this though never underestimate a Codependent they will come off as weak and I guess some maybe are but a lot are quite the opposite. A Codependents main issue or at least one of mine is control. I comtacted the Narc out of the need to control a situation I didn’t feel I had control of.

      11. shesaw says:

        Lol NA, I did feel the impulse to defend you when you were called perfect. It made me want to say something like “no, she isn’t perfect, how dare you say that!” Doesn’t that sound strange… 🙂

        I love imperfections, they make someone/something unique and interesting. Just ordered a Kintsugi repair kit – actually it would make a great present to all of us here on the blog (just look for it in google, you will find something).

        Kintsugi is a Japanese art of brokenness and beauty. It is a way of mending broken pottery (usually by using golden glue in thick, visible layers, but there are many variations) to show that what has been broken or shattered can be reconstructed into something that is more beautiful than the original piece. How beautiful it that!

      12. Persephone In Sunlight says:

        I feel as though y’all are being harsh on NarcAngel. She is indeed giving you good advice when she says dump facebook. It is part of your No Contact Suicide. HG hasn’t posted it yet in this rotation, but here it is:

        ‘The second method of committing no contact suicide is where you leave open a route by which we may contact you of an electronic nature. Accordingly, this mistake includes :-

        Not blocking our telephone number
        Not blocking our e-mail address
        Not blocking us on every social media platform
        Not changing your telephone number(s)
        Not changing your e-mail address(es)
        Not removing yourself from every social media platform’

        Please take notice of this last sentence.
        I would also like to point out that facebook is not only putting you in one of your current Narcissists’ Spheres Of Influence, you are one of the “fish in a barrel” for other narcissists, doing their online investigations, from the comfort of their office or living room, as they hunt for their next victim.

        As for calling you out on your actions regarding his IPPS, we get angry and call people things. It is called to your attention, notice it, (you at least acknowledged it) and move on. No need to shoot the messenger. Informing his current IPPS will backfire. Of course my Narcissist said the woman calling me was a prank caller.I seem to get a lot of prank calls, and of course we all knew how he felt about cheaters.LOL! Binds her to him even more. He and She against the world.

        NarcAngel is direct, I’ll give you that. But so is HG. I would hope that trait would be welcomed equally. Naw, she’s not perfect, but she is compatible with some of us here. And very experienced with Narcissists.

        I hope she would tell me when I’m heading for a cliff.

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Thank you. You get me. I think people picture me frothing away when I say things lol. It might help those who care to understand to see it this way (or not-their choice).

          I am your seemingly indifferent older sister. The one who is off on her own and has little time for you (little sister) now. You often declare me from another planet, but it does not stop you from seating yourself on the vanity while I am preparing for a night out to bring up some issues you are having. I care for you more than you know, but because I am not the comforting type, I pretend to be aloof and have no time for ‘children’ and their issues while I am applying my make-up, so I tersely impart some information for you to consider that you do not appreciate, and am sure you are not getting from your many friends (who only want you to feel better and remain your friends). I imply by my tone that you are intelligent and know what I am telling you is correct if you would just trust your gut. Because you do not want to face the hard truth and required action I have presented, you stomp off announcing that I am a jerk, but I see your wheels turning to look for any possibility of truth in my being harsh because I am not concerned about being your ‘friend’. You already have many of those. I yell goodnight as you place distance between us and return to the mirror to apply my lipstick as I smile and secretly cheer you on.

          Hate me all you want but I’m on your side.

          1. K says:

            Just the way I like it NarcAngel, rocks on rocks in a dirty glass.

        2. SMH says:

          Hi Perse, My perspective is a bit different (this is not an attack on NarcAngel, I swear!). I think giving up something that is important, such as Facebook (if it is important to you), is caving in to the narc. I’m not going to cave. Nor have I blocked his number (which has changed, anyway) or his email or blocked him elsewhere, which I could do. Maybe if he were a different type of narc I would have done all of that, or maybe the moment passed where I thought it mattered, or maybe because I escaped rather than being discarded, I think that maintaining my life the way I want it is part of asserting myself. I have infinite patience except when I do not, and if he reappears, I might smash him to bits (psychologically) because I am still furious. I am not a narc magnet, so not worried about other ones out there…everyone has to decide for themselves and maybe learn a lesson or two along the way.

          1. Persephone In Sunlight says:

            OK, so you are not doing No Contact at all?
            I wish you luck with that.
            Mine loved it when I was furious with him. Tons of fuel for him.

      13. Lori says:

        Harsh ? I don’t even bother. I’m here for information and an exchange of experiences. That’s it. I’m good without all the personal attacks and judgements. I don’t come here for that I just don’t even address them.

        No one persons opinion on here is any more correct or valid than another. I take the info that’s helpful and leave the rest

    4. Christy Underwood says:

      Why did you accept the friends friend request? Why is your profile not already private? These are questions you should ask yourself. My thought is that you’ve left your profile public and you accepted the friends request in hopes of hearing from your ex narc. I feel this theory is confirmed by the fact that you reached out to your ex narc to tell him you accepted his friends friend request. One there was no need to accept the friend request and two there was certainly no need to justify your acceptance to the ex narc. NC means making all your profiles private and only accepting friend/follow requests from those people you know are not Lieutenants in his army. If need be, cull through your existing friends/followers list and unfriend/block those who might report back to him. For sure block your ex narc (especially the fake profile) which you shouldn’t be spying on anyway. Also, make your default for posts to view by only friends so that friends of friends can’t see them. You should also block him from your phone.
      NC means that you leave no path for your ex narc to contact you. As of yet, you haven’t seem to have done that, so you really haven’t gone no contact. What you are doing is dangling the social media carrot in hopes that the horse will nibble.

    5. Yolo says:

      The no contact suicide didn’t occur when you texted him.

      Why send out the S.O.S? You are in the emergency room. All, the resources are located on this blog. Assuming, you are new the stalking of the fake profile and if I were to guess…he’s occupying space in your mind. You are breaking no contact..Keep need scream Help..

      1. Lori says:

        I didn’t stalk his fake profile there’s nothing to stalk I was only told about it by a flying monkey who doesn’t know she’s a flying monkey and knows nothing about the personal nature of my relationship with him. I do not ask about him to anyone ever.

        If there was any stalking going on it was on his end not mine

    6. DUTG says:

      Lori, I am no expert, and I think the answers along the lines of negative fuel, thought fuel, power and control are provided in HG’s extensive works. My overriding question/concern is why did you feel the need to explain your befriending of anyone to him? This question is not meant to challenge you, judge you, or anything of that sort. It’s clear you already regret it. I have just been admiring your comments/advice to others when you tell them they have no need to justify/explain/defend. You are more powerful than him and did not need to justify, explain, or defend any action on your part. Who the hell is he? Sod him,

      1. quasi7 says:

        DUTG – I think you may be my sister from another mother. !! Love your posts…

    7. Lori,

      I suggest you stay off facebook entirely. Replace with narcsite, and see real friends in real time. YOU block him, on your phone, and all other social media sites. Don’t text him again, don’t answer calls from his or unknown numbers. You know the drill. Don’t compound your error. Just check your No Contact protocol, shore up where it is weak, and live your life as close to “he doesn’t exist” as possible.

      We are human. If you’ve made an error like texting, don’t wait for an answer, just block and ignore. Don’t accept ANY facebook friends you don’t know, and check with the friends you do know before accepting their friend requests. But really, just dump facebook. I don’t know how “charming” your narc is, but mine ended up being more “friends” with my friends than I was. : P So, of course, he had ways of knowing what I was up to, even though I thought these people had my back!

      You may wish to check with K, our illustrious librarian, for the relevant articles that will inform you how to do No Contact like a Boss!

      or you can read HGs’ book ‘No Contact’. Here’s the link:

      Keep Calm and Carry On.


      1. K says:

        Persephone In Sunlight
        You and all the others have covered all the bases regarding Lori’s No Contact Suicide very well. Excellent job! I think she should get off of FB, too.

      2. Lori says:

        Thank you. I’m kind of ashamed of myself. I know I shouldn’t have reacted. I know what to do I just don’t do it sometimes. I really have no excuse.

        Now that some days have passed I don’t think the Narc had anything to do with this.

        1. K says:

          Don’t feel ashamed. I have made many NC mistakes and all you can do is learn from it and move on. It is all good.

      3. Lori says:

        Thanks K. It was a complete over reaction on my part. These people make you hypervigilant about everything. I have days where I’m totally fine and totally on top of what I was entangled with know all the right things to say and do and other days where I seem like a complete newbie to this which I am not.

        Did the Narc have anything to do with this ? 4 days out I don’t think so and the friend has been nothinf but nice hasn’t asked a thing about the Narc or me even. Just casual comments here and there on a variety of things

        1. K says:

          My pleasure, Lori
          It takes time and I still struggle with ET occasionally. On a positive note, you become less hypervigilant as the logic takes over.

      4. Lori says:


        You know I was thinking this morning that post discard we or at least I tend to think their every move is about me when it likely isn’t as I have been effectively deleted.

        I think that phenomenon is two fold.

        1. We think well even if he’s doing shitty stuff he’s still thinking about us

        2. We are so focused on reading and processing what has happened that it completely skews our vision. I call it Narc goggles where you begin to see all interactions with them and others in terms of how it applies to the Narc and Narcissism. You even start looking for Narcissism or elements of it in everything and everyone. Now simple hellos from mutaial friends or acquaintances have you wondering is this a proxy hoover? When likely it was just a simple hello from someone who probably knows nothing about any of this

        I’ll be so glad when enough time has passed that it effects me no more.

        I’m so damn mad at myself for giving him the satisfaction of a reaction ugh oh well pick myself up and dust myself off and keep going

        1. K says:

          I think you are right; we have been deleted and they go forward. From our POV we assume that they are thinking about us, however, we know that is not the case. They are on the hunt for fuel, traits and benefits. The hyper-vigilance fades and, before you know it, you can put the Narc Goggles down. Indifference is around the corner, just keep calm and carry on.

          1. SMH says:

            Agreed, K. One day indifference arrives, the fog lifts, the obsessiveness ends.

          2. K says:

            You don’t even know it is happening and then all of a sudden you are free. It is amazing.

      5. shesaw says:

        Oh Lori, please don’t be mad at yourself! It happened. You tried to be good to everyone. There is nothing wrong with that, on the contrary.

    8. SMH says:

      Ignore him and don’t text him again. He could have made a new fake profile that you don’t know about and be on a friend list in that guise. He might have several fake profiles. He’s probably keeping tabs on you somehow, and that seems most likely. I think HG posted somewhere that he once had six fake FB profiles. I know mine’s fake profile too but there could be others I do not know about. I look at the fake profile occasionally but there are no friends or images – nothing changes. I assume that’s because he only uses it to creep (his m.o.) rather than to actively engage. I’ve looked for the fake profile on several friend lists because that would give him better access to me (I am pretty locked down) but I have so many FB friends that it would take me forever to check all of them. That said, I do manipulate the things I know he would be able to see (profile pic and such) because I know he looks at another social media site of mine and he must do that just for the picture because we are not connected there either.

      1. Lori says:

        The guy that friended me is for real and actually quite nice as a few days have passed and I have taken off my Narc googles I think he just friended me cause he knew me.

        Yes it is possible that the Narc put him up to it but when I think about it I doubt it. He doesn’t need him to spy we have many mutual friends and honestly the friend request seemed to upset him. I think when he saw us conversing is when he got mad and blocked me with the fake profile.

        Who knows. At the end of the day there’s nothing I can do but move on from this debacle

      2. Lori says:

        The interesting part of this is how quickly people assumed I was stalking his fake profile. I wasn’t ! It There’s nothing to stalk it’s just a fake pic nothing else. I wouldn’t have even known about it had someone not told me. I know that when I accepted the friend request that fake profile was not on the friends friend list. After I text him and said I had nothing to do with your friend friending me, a couple hours later it appeared. The friend and I were having a nice casual inteReaction about a photo on his page. I pretty sure he saw it then next thing I knew I was blocked. He does not know I even know about that profile. It was like his ego could not handle the friend and I talking so that reaction kind of tells me he had nothing to do with his friend friending me unless I’m missing something?

        1. SMH says:

          Lori, HG once explained to me that narcissism is a self-defense mechanism that keeps the narc from apprehending reality and protects him when he feels threatened. Mine denied that he had a fake FB profile even though it was attached to his fake (alias) email. He also denied that he creeped me on LinkedIn – said he ‘never used it.’ This after after I saw evidence of his creeping, checked his profile (public) and saw he had liked an article published that same day. Obviously the fake FB profile is his and he was on LinkedIn the day I was creeped (happens a lot – just saw another one). I think of it as a narcissistic membrane that covers their brains. Yours probably reacted quickly as a narcissist to cover up whatever he was feeling, which was likely jealousy.

          I think it’s amusing the way we try to parse every little thing they do. But then I also find it amusing that every little thing they do is actually meaningful. They are not happy-go-lucky spontaneous types.

      3. Lori says:


        Omg it is hard to believe that they do all this crazy shit but THEY DO! It’s so maddening cause you want to scream why can’t you be normal. Just act normal and I’ll be happy to give you the information you are creeping for Something just came to me. He was suspebded from fb hence the fake profile. That’s what he told my least I said to my friend why did he start another fake profile ? He already has one. My friend said oh I think probably cause he couldn’t remember the password. And guess what now I remember I had blocked that profile so he couldn’t use it to spy on me. God the new fake profile was made a day or two after he blocked me. Wow!

        Yep all that blocking was fake. He started spying the day after he did it.

        1. SMH says:

          Yep. With mine I am like, why don’t you just send a friend request or connect with me on that other networking site, you know, like a normal person would? He once contacted me on a dating site after telling me there was an IPPS and they were ‘reconciling.’ Anyway, I haven’t blocked his fake FB for precisely the reasons you have described. He will just make another one. It has taken me years to understand all of this so I totally get your shock. I did not know a human could behave this way. No idea. What a dolt I was. But the upside (and for you too) is that none of this means a thing to them. They also don’t react the way normal people would to what we think are insults or slights or emotional outbursts.

      4. Morning sun says:

        I deleted my Facebook profile and solved the issue. 🙂 But I was getting fed up with FBs targeted ads anyway, so it was an easy decision.

    9. AimToGetBetter says:

      Hi, Lori. I fell for no contact suicide, too. My emotional thinking and my secret desire for revenge (“What, me want revenge? Nah. BULLSHIT. You bet I do and I just outed myself.)

      I’m trying to not be too hard on myself, Lori. It takes a while to get this mind f***ing b.s. Going No Contact is not as easy as I thought and I’m a super magnet empath–I thought I would get this no contact easily. But I violated one sphere out of 6 spheres and that’s all it takes. I get to start over, too.

      I was 3 months No Contact and I walked right into his trap–again. He has new tactics and strategies now. That’s the dilemma of getting ensnared by a Greater. IQ wise I have the higher IQ, but by my actions one couldn’t guess! Seriously, I have a hard time staying ahead of him becuz he’s everything I’m not–devious, evil, full of rage, fury and anger, a thief, a liar, a philanderer, etc etc.

      Take good care of yourself in recovering from the error. Luv ya

      1. SMH says:

        You’ll get there, ATGB. I am also a Magnet SE but that means the empathy is pretty strong – it’s not just about intelligence, though I think I am smarter than mine is too :-). It took a huge effort to manage six months NC last year all while he was creeping me online, and then I almost got sucked back into the FR – four more months to disentangle myself. It has now been almost two months NC but our situations have changed drastically and so I am beginning to get my priorities straight and he is not one of them.

        Lori, it is quite possible that the narc got jealous and that is why he blocked you. You should gloat about that – I am probably in the minority here but I would encourage you to friend all of his friends!! That’s what I would do if my narc’s fake profile had any friends. You are probably more interesting than your narc and his friends probably like interacting with you more than him anyway! Ha!

      2. Lori says:

        Unfortunately I know this happens multiple times until it doesn’t anymore. These people suck. I totally overreacted to this whether he did or didn’t have anything to do with this. The thing is that when you have Narc goggles on you tend to think every non routine thing is them when that isn’t the case.

        It does make me happy that if bothered him so much that his friend friended me that he couldn’t even stand seeing us converse

        Thanks for your thoughts 🙂

      3. Lori says:

        Smh and Aim to get better

        I think you are correct on the jealousy. That is the only thing that explains why he would block a profile I likely didn’t know about.

        “Friend all of his friends” lol that is funny cause they friend me lol

        I do know early on a friend of his that lives close to me friended me. He ask did he come on to you ? i said no not really then he said just wait he will and I said nah and he said no he will. These are all very masculine nice looking men

        Jealousy is kind of the only thing that explains the behavior. I just think he thought to himself oh hell no im not gonna watch this

    10. Morning sun says:

      Lori, I think you’re blowing this out of proportion. So you texted him and he didn’t reply. So you broke NC. It happens. You pick yourself up and you move on.

      More importantly, you still (or perhaps again, or maybe just at the moment) are in the grips of emotional thinking. That is what you can control and what you can work on. What the narc does is out of your control.

      Have you read HG’s article on the wrong no contact? If not, go read it. If yes, go read it again.

      1. Lori says:

        Yes. Thank you. What’s done is done. I just have to move on from it.

      2. Lori says:

        I think you are exactly right. This is just addiction relapse you pick up and move on. It seemed horrible at the time but it isn’t 3 days later.

        I actually like the guy who friiend me Narc doesn’t need him to spy we already have over 40 mutual friends I really think this was coincidence as this friend and have another friend besides the Narc

  8. T says:

    Thanks HG for the reminders. I’m still doing a strict no contact.

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