The Errors of the Ignorant – No. 4


A series based on the comments made by people who fail to understand the true nature of narcissists and the narcissistic dynamic. Whilst these comments may be well-intentioned, they are incorrect, perpetuate misunderstandings and in many cases create false hope, dashed expectations and perilous outcomes.

It is often the case that a victim of our kind finds that the (unidentified) narcissist continues to keep in touch with them. As I have explained on many occasions, we will always look to hoover you whether it is post escape or post discard because there is the prospect of fuel and potentially the opportunity to draw you back into the Formal Relationship. Those hoovers are governed by the Hoover Triggers and also the Hoover Execution Criteria. If you are unaware of the nature of the person that you became entangled with, it is highly likely that you will keep triggering hoovers and the bar will be set low on the criteria, which means you will be regularly hoovered.

This may seem to somebody like we are just keeping in touch, wanting to see you, perhaps explain why things did not work out, organise to address outstanding issues. Those are the most likely views taken where the dynamic has been between narcissist and Intimate Partner Primary Source (“IPPS”). It does not end there however. In this dynamic, you will have been devalued and this will cause you to question certain behaviours that you have experienced and witnessed. If you are an Intimate Partner Secondary Source (Shelf or Dirty Secret) you may well not have experienced any devaluation and instead you are seen only at certain intervals, picked up and put down and we keep coming back to you, seeing you, sending you pleasant messages as we future fake and provide comfort crumbs. There is no ‘traditional’ malevolent behaviour towards you and yet you find yourself not elevated to a position of IPPS, so you find it strange that you are not referred to as the girlfriend or you do not meet our family and friends.

Whether you were the IPPS and you are now being repeatedly hoovered or you are the IPSS who keeps getting picked up and put down, these ongoing interactions can last for years. We have embedded you into our fuel matrix and whilst you may never return to the position of IPPS (or be crowned as such) you remain an appliance that we draw fuel from. This leaves you perplexed. We are intimate with you (or have been), we talk of future plans with you, appear to confide in you, yet there is not the sensation of being in that formal intimate relationship of partner, spouse, boyfriend or girlfriend. This leaves you puzzled as to what you mean to this person and why we keep engaging with you even though there appears to be no end game in sight.

Labouring under this situation you seek advice from a third party who listens to you explain the dynamic. They are likely to gloss over the devaluation (if you were once an IPPS) preferring not to get involved in conflict again and instead focus on what appears to be a more constructive interaction now as you are hoovered. Whether it is being hoovered or being placed on the shelf and removed from it, this advisor will deduce that our continued interest in you and our efforts to keep in touch with you (which may be strenuous at times – for instance tracking you down after you have moved) ) means that we are clearly interested in you and this should be regarded as ‘a good thing’.

No it is not.

The advisor is likely to suggest that because you clearly mean something to us that you should continue this engagement with us, perhaps look to increase it if we remain interested also (invariably you are) and therefore great things are on the horizon.

No they are not.

The only things you mean to us are in accordance with the Prime Aims (fuel, character traits and residual benefits).

This prolonged contact is born out of our need to secure these Prime Aims and keep you within our fuel matrix. We want to keep drawing fuel from you and we do this through the repeated hovering (even though we may never put the Formal Relationship of boyfriend and girlfriend back into place). We do this through taking you off the shelf and engaging with you as an IPSS and then putting you back there when we turn to somebody else. We will continue to do this for as long as we are able. Perhaps we will restore you to the position of IPPS following these hoovers or we might promote you from IPSS to IPPS and of course your continued engagement with us appears to have paid off. In the short terms yes, but ultimately that promotion or restoration is a poisoned one as your devaluation as IPPS will come about.

If there is no restoration or promotion you will be kept in this state of purgatory, never sure precisely what you are to us. You see us sometimes and then not on other occasions. You hear of us doing things with family but you may not be invited to join in. Certain social occasions are excluded from you also. You feel close to us because of the way we make you feel when we are with you but at the same time there feels like a gulf between us because we are not admitting you entirely into our lives. You may feel like the Other Woman or Man, you may feel like the Friend With Benefits, you may feel like the Secret Shag, you may feel like you are Permanently In Waiting and if it is this last one, you are correct. You are permanently in waiting as you are at our whim and pleasure. If we want to engage with you, we will, if we do not, we will not.

By convincing you that this elongated song and dance translates into you meaning something to us, your advisor has made an error of the ignorant. They have given you false hope that you are special to us, that we will make good on all those future fakes, on all those tempting promises and that those comfort crumbs will somehow gather together to make a Relationship Cake. They might, but it will not be to your taste in the end and more likely, they will not and five years later, ten years later, twenty years later you are still the one waiting for us to call and pick you up as you realise that your life has been placed on hold and all because you were made to think that this narcissistic behaviour of hoovering/shelfing denoted that you were special and you meant something to us.

If you recognise this behaviour in your dynamic with someone or that it is happening to someone else you know and care about, do not commit the error of the ignorant and enlighten them to the reality of what they are in and what awaits them.

25 thoughts on “The Errors of the Ignorant – No. 4

  1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

    Me: “What are we?”
    Him: “We are friends. Friends who are also lovers. I’ll take you however I may have you…”

    Saint Piano.

  2. SMH says:

    State of purgatory is spot on. I used to refer to it as ‘limbo’ and I thought that’s what he was living in, not me. But he kept me in that state too. I wish I had know this a year and a half ago, but I probably wouldn’t have believed it anyway. Only the long view really allows one to see the bigger picture because so many different issues can account for the weird behaviors. My ‘advisor’ was wrong about a lot of things and right about a few things but I don’t blame her. I blame myself for not trusting my gut. Yet at least I had the good sense not to want to be ‘promoted’!!

    1. Dragonfly#2 says:

      SMH, I enjoy your insight and posts. Melinda

      1. SMH says:

        Thank you, Melinda/Dragonfly. I have just been reading about your situation. Please heed what others have said, have a consult with HG and find a lawyer you can trust. I got off lightly because mine is gone for the moment and my situation was never dangerous, though I had all kinds of fear. You are much more vulnerable and you need to be proactive to protect yourself. Sending good vibes and good luck your way!!

  3. Marie says:

    I’m in a messy situation with my narcassist. I have a Violence Restraing Order on him. He hoovered me back in 2 x weeks ago while the order was in place. Now he came over one night to collect some things and we ended up arguing and He got violent and he got charged with a breach of VRO.
    Now he has my motor vehicle which he refuses to return. He has now brought another vehicle and is hiding my car. It’s a game.. he knows I’m doing everything in my power to try and find this car.
    Now I have all his personal belongings at my house and his dog. Now he also owes me $4000 on a credit card I gave him. Now he has authority to come with a police officer and collect his things but refuses… he’s gone back to a old girlfriend cause he needs a place to live.
    Now this has been going on for 8 x weeks and no closure. I sent a text saying your stuff is going to the charity if you don’t collect it. But he didn’t show up. He obviously was testing me.
    I feel he’s controlling me with the car and I’m stuck… he’s stalking me at house most nights doing drivebys… I feel trapped in this world I can’t get out of… any advice ???

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Marie, the detail involved and further the detail to convey to you to assist you fully means this is a situation which is best addressed through a consultation.

      1. Marie says:

        Ok Thanks HG. I will do that tonight

    2. Dragonfly#2 says:

      Hi, Marie. I go to Court this Tuesday to try to convince the judge to continue my Restraining Order which my ex- contested. My allegations was his sexual assault of me 3 times. I didn’t report it to the police when the assaults happened initially.
      First off, I was beat and defeated, but I didn’t want him in my life anymore.
      I always gave him a pass–I would convice myself (Stockholm Sydrome) that he didn’t know that he was assaulting and raping me even though I screamed no and the rapes were brutal. But he left no marks. I didn’t report it to police. I didn’t want to get him in trouble. I’ll never enable someone again. Rape is rape.
      I was trying to escape and he took control. He wouldn’t let me leave him.
      I made many mistakes. I got the RO but after I met with him in a public place 3 weeks after the last rape. I initiate the meeting because he kept showing up at the places I was going. He kept calling by spoofing.
      I told him I was done with him for good. He tried the preventative hoover and it didn’t work. He kept showing up and calling as if we were friends.
      My court hearing is going to be his word against mine. He hired an attorney. I did not. I don’t trust the bottom dwellers.
      I have no idea what I’m facing as have never filed RO before.
      Since the RO, he’s showed up on my property and constantly spoofing me.
      I just want the judge to realize he’s a dangerous person. All he wanted was my Mercedes, my money, my home. My good standing in the community. Which I don’t even know if I still do have because I quit my job and have been isolating.
      I see a psychologist who’s very aware of the disorder. I take pills for the nightmares of the assaults. On antidepressant and sleep aids.
      Help. Please. Anybody. My fear has clouded my logic and my ET.I need the RO to remain in place so I have tome to plan my escape and vanish–change my name . . . start a peaceful life.
      Help, I’m so afraid of him. His rage. He hates me. Probably wishes he could kill me.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        No better place to get the proper information and an form a strategy for coping with this than from one of his own kind. HG is the expert in these things. Please consult with him. You will feel less overwhelmed and better prepared. Do not be afraid. He is very professional and many here can attest to their success in engaging with him on these matters.

      2. MB says:

        Ditto what NA said Dragonfly. Talk to HG, stat! The only thing I would add is that it might be a mistake not having an attorney to represent you. Although they are “ball washing bastards”, they do provide the service of being an intermediary so you don’t engage directly with the N. My best to you! Read here and HGs books. You will find validation and eventually freedom. Hang tough in there, you’re a survivor!

      3. Twilight says:


        I am in full agreement with Narc Angel on consulting with HG. You will not find another that can read his kind better. He is professional, listens and then gives accurate advice to ones situation.

      4. Dragonfly#2 says:

        Thx for your helpful comments. I have 2 1/2 days. I waited too long for HG consult. I didn’t take advice on getting a ballwasher.
        He’s a greater. I know his female attorney (traitor, but he’s probably f***ing her) is going to say I’m being vengeful. That it all was consensual but you all know the truth. He’s dangerous, vengeful, Charlie Manson sociopath.
        One of my biggest detriments is I trust my own judgment. But I do listen to HG. I know my ex is going to try to make me look like a nympho who just wanted his sex. (Worst f*** I ever had. Lack of experience, young. Too violent. No intimacy.)
        Pray for me if you’re inclined. Let justice be served. I’ll let you know how it goes. ILU

      5. K says:

        I strongly recommend a Skype consult with HG.

        Many of us are conditioned to treat relationship rape as if it is not really rape, but it is. It’s all about fuel and control. He owns you from his perspective and he doesn’t want to let go, ever.

        These are residual benefits and they belong to him, too: All he wanted was my Mercedes, my money, my home. My good standing in the community.

        This is gas lighting: He kept showing up and calling as if we were friends. (He is violent so how could you possibly be friends?!? This makes you doubt your reality)

        This is a short article that you may find helpful.

        You won’t regret a Skype consult and good luck on Tuesday! You will be in my thoughts.

    3. K says:

      Consult with HG on Skype ASAP.

      1. Can you report the car as stolen?
      2. Find a third party to communicate with him regarding the return of all his property, with a time limit. Do NOT keep anything.
      3. Kiss the $4000.00 goodbye and cancel card if you haven’t already (residual benefits).
      4. He hoovered old GF back into the narcissistic cycle for fuel and a place to live (residual benefits).
      5. You will NOT get closure. He wants your negative fuel. Don’t react to anything he does.
      6. Potential malice/fuel obsession (stalking)

      Good luck! If you have time read the links below.

      1. Dragonfly#2 says:

        Marie, K is spot on. I’ve had to cut my losses too. I read the above links K provided. I have to accept there will never be complete closure. Put him in jail for violations. My ex probably wants to see me dead. K, great advice.

        1. K says:

          Thank you, Dragonfly#2

          We all want closure, however, the narcissist does not, because closure means the provision of fuel ends and does so for good. He wants your positive fuel during seduction, negative fuel during devaluation and hoover fuel (both positive and negative) thereafter. Also, by denying closure there is the potential to draw you back into the narcissistic cycle all over again. GOSO! Vanish!

          They really do think they own you.

      2. Marie says:

        Hi K,
        Ive tried reporting car as stolen he got out of it on the side of the road.
        I have a whole house full so i cant do that!! Ive messaged him and told him to collect his things but wont. Ive even dumped garbage bags off at this girls house he is staying at. even threw them off the back of my ute.
        Im in contact with his ex wife he was married to and he hates it. She has been helping me and we are best friends now.
        he has got fuel off the ex girlfiend but keeping a low profile. Doesnt want anyone to know they are together. He tells his son they are only mates so it comes back to the ex wife and i. i have a entangled web. hes feeding off us two… we both have restraining orders on him.
        the stalking is his fuel.
        Thanks for the links.

        1. K says:

          You are welcome, Marie

          It sounds like you have got your hands full. You and his ex-wife have ROs, which can be very helpful when you are trying to establish NC. Try not to contact him at all, even through text. If you want to return his property, try to get someone else to drop it all off at once. Very matter-of-fact; no nonsense, no drama. Try to lay low, stay off of social media for a while and work on your NC. If he can’t get a reaction from you then, eventually, he will leave you alone. Narcissists love drama and chaos. Starve the bastard!

          When you have a chance please read the link below. There is a search bar on the right, located under “Knowing the Narcissist” if you type in: No contact mistakes, then you can read the other four articles, as well.

    4. Dragonfly#2 says:

      Keep calling the police, in my opinion. Every time.

      1. Dragonfly#2 says:

        Say HG isn’t available . . . What have you learned and advice me what you know HG would advice me. I’m a Super Magnet Empath and ex is Lower Greater, probsbly covert. I’m running out of time (my bad), question 1) are texts permissible in small claims courts? 2) Can text msgs be altered?

      2. K says:

        How did it go in court? I found this on Google:

        “Yes, SMS messages can be used as evidence, if they are material to the case at hand. Generally, during discovery, SMS message conversations are retrieved by subpoena directly from the carrier, not from any individual handset. This preserves the integrity of the evidence and makes it admissible as evidence in court.”

        Also, I read there is an app available to alter msgs. You may want to google that and read about it.

    5. Dragonfly#2 says:

      Vanish. My ex violates RO all the time. He’s manipulative and heartless. I’m moving to another continent. They think they own you as that’s how they think–totally irrational. Marie, my thoughts are with you even though I have my own struggles with my ex violating RO. Your not alone. Vanish.

      1. Melinda Buskaaker says:

        I lost in court. The judge started to rule in my favor and then his attorney said the RO would effect his purchasing a home in the future, and other sob stories, etc. I should have had an attorney. Next time I’ll get the best. Spoofing is a Federal offense in USA.
        I am vanishing now. Leaving tomorrow for another country.
        Always get a ball washer. Xoxo

        1. SMH says:

          Oh, so sorry to read that, Melinda. That sucks, really. I hope you are happy leaving for another country. Please stay safe there and let us know how you are. xo

          P.S. Reading all of this stuff about having to move to different countries or even continents makes me feel less strange that I once did that too – not with this narc but with an earlier relationship with someone who probably was one and who also got violent. I ran off and got an apartment in another country/on another continent. My greatest pleasure was coming home to complete silence and locking the door behind me. I even locked the bedroom door for awhile, though I was the only occupant of the apartment.

        2. MB says:

          I wish you all the best in your new life Melinda! x

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