I am Empty, I Show You What You Want To See


There is a vast emptiness inside of me.

Whatever was meant to be there is not there and instead this chasm remains, an expansive void that is dark, deep and perpetual. I remain ahead of this void because it wants to consume me and in so doing consign me to oblivion. This relentless black hole wants to devour me, breaking down all that I have achieved and crushing them into nothingness, a final insult against me as I disappear without trace. A terrible matter to contemplate that as this extinction is aimed at me is the prospect of never having mattered, never having existed and never having made a mark on the world. To be erased in an instant, obliterated and deleted.

I am fearless in all that I do, save that is this void, this nothing which is the architect of one total fear. It is against this constant fate that I drive forward. You see, hurled into this void is The Creature and he is scrabbling to escape it so that with dreadful suicidal intent he can wrap his sinewy arms about me, his yellowed and sharpened teeth plunging into my neck, his venom paralysing me as he gurgles and giggles, hauling me backwards off the precipice and into the void, the pair of us plummeting into oblivion.

That must not happen.

In order to keep him deep, deep down in the void it is necessary to imprison him and keep his vile and seditious whispers silenced. This means filling the void. Imagine he lurks at its very deepest point. He wishes to keep the void as it is. Vast and empty, since by doing so he will be able to then clamber out and grab me, dragging me down back into the void. He needs the void to be just that. He needs emptiness so he can reach out of it unhindered. He needs the void to be just that. He needs emptiness so he can destroy me through its unrelenting absence of anything.

I cannot have emptiness.

This void must be filled and it is filled with fuel. Each piece of fuel places a layer within the void and behind each layer The Creature becomes imprisoned. Oh he will wail and protest but as those layers become thicker and more numerous his wretched cat calls become muffled and then silenced. He cannot break through these layers, he cannot reach out and burst through the constructed layers to sabotage my existence. Each layer differs in depth, strength and duration in accordance with the type of fuel that I am able to gather and place within the void, fashioning my construct.

The smile from a stranger is a thin and ephemeral sliver. The admiration from a newly acquired primary source is a dense and durable slab that protects me and makes the construct strong. Piece by piece, layer by layer, each segment of fuel, positive and negative, reinforces the construct, fills the void and keep The Creature at bay.

One cannot rest for these pieces dissipate and melt away through time. The Creature picks at them, claws at them, raking through them. Your treacherous criticism punches massive great holes in them allowing the mocking howls of The Creature to echo to me. See now why we hate criticism so vehemently?

Fuel fills the void. Fuel creates the construct.

The fastest way to gather fuel is to show you what you want to see for then you will pour forth with your love, your delight, your admiration and your appreciation. Marvellous, edifying and filling is your fuel. If I show you the very thing that you want to see, namely yourself, you will give me this fuel more readily, with such potency, often and in huge amounts. I have not time to build something of substance for you to fall in love with, to admire and desire. I must create it with due expedience and what better way than to use that which already exists, namely you. Thus, I show you yourself through my mirror and you fall for that image believing it to be me, believing it to be my essence and substance.

You do not realise that you are seeking yourself and indeed you do not see yourself when I mirror you back at yourself. You are conned by my fakery into thinking that it is my substance that you see and it dazzles and enchants you. I care not. So long as you are providing me with that fuel, I will hold up that mirror to you and let you fall in love with yourself. It is an artifice, a fabrication and fakery but it is necessary.

I give you what you want. It is not real but it seems so real to you and thus your responses are in fact real. The delicious fuel flows and I want you to pour it into me, filling me up, creating a barrier of salvation between me and the Creature as you are chief architect in the plans to frustrate and defeat his attempt to dethrone me.

This is why when you are installed as primary source and your wonderful fuel flows you truly are everything that matters to us.

You are our salvation and if holding a mirror up to achieve this salvation is what must be done, then it will be done.

84 thoughts on “I am Empty, I Show You What You Want To See

  1. Caroline says:

    Yo, HG… about your precious brevity/wit quote…

    I have one of my own:

    “Spare the words — watch the screw.”


  2. SuperXena says:

    …. ..

  3. SuperXena says:


  4. Kristine says:

    HG- My ex narc is facing a criminal trial in US for domestic violence and choking (in a state where choking is considered a felony and includes mandated jail time). He has 2 past fuel sources testifying against him for being choked as well. Let’s assume he is found guilty, he will lose his career (high status) and money. How does his type survive in jail? Will he decompensate and have to face The Creature? What is to be expected as one of his ex primary sources?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It depends on his school of narcissist and how he can access appliances whilst in prison, fuel can still be garnered so it is not necessarily the hell people think it might be.

      1. Kristine says:

        Is there really any situation where the creature will take over…

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Clarece says:

            That would be…..?!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            When the construct collapses.

          3. Clarece says:

            Oh thank you HG!!
            (“Caveman HG” made a brief appearance there, but I knew he wouldn’t stay for long. 🙂

          4. MB says:

            Sometimes it’s like pulling eye teeth to get anything out of them, Clarece. It must be a narc thing, we wouldn’t understand. It’s not just HG.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Brevity is the soul of wit.

          6. MB says:

            I’m not sure I understand. Wit as in humor? Wit as in intelligence? Or both?

          7. MB says:

            Of course, Shakespeare! I’m in love with your brain HG.

            I’ve felt at times it’s to invoke mystery and depth and to keep from revealing too much.

            Me…I’m a Chatty Cathy!

          8. Clarece says:

            I just like teasing HG on that because he is so capable of such articulated responses.

          9. MB says:

            He is indeed articulate, Clarece.

      2. Kristine says:

        Aging perhaps? Sickness? Solitary Confinement? Do all of your type collapse at some point? Do you allow yourself to think about this stage?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not necessarily. It is not a concern to me.

    2. I’m witnessing the construct of a mid collapse and the creature has really taken hold at the moment. A true victim at his finest. Even though I know what he is,foolishly I cant help but feel sorry for him. I know he would not care at all if it were to happen to me or anyone else.

      It is all from his own doing, he has upset so many different people in so many different parts of his life. As a result he is taking direct hits from it at every angle, he completely fails to see that he has done anything wrong and firmly beleives he is the nicest person anyone could ever meet, despite having a very limited fuel matrix. It is completely beyond him that anyone could think badly of him.

      Previously I would have tried to help him through it ans help him to understand what it is he does that upsets people. But I fully realise now that he will never be able to see that. Yet at the same time it still baffles me.

      1. Kristine says:

        And because you still have desire to help, you continue the dance. Trust me I am trying to do everything I can do to ensure no contact because he has found a way to hoover me for the past 8 years. I feel like he will always continue to find mr and try to manipulate me. I cannot give him any attention. I am so worried after I testify of what he will want to do to me after his prison term. That’s why I thought I would go to HG to try to get an idea.

        1. alexissmith2016 says:

          HG has all the answers Kristine. He knows everything! NC is the way and I’m sure with HGs help you’ll be able to put a stop to the hooves.
          Ah this isn’t one I’ve had a relationship with. Someone i maintain a friendly distance with.

  5. mollyb5 says:

    Well. I would love to pour fuel all over my narc. But he needs to stop devaluing me …..
    HG have you ever tried being hypnotized and regression to when you were a child . I know you shared memories of when you saw your mom do the silent treatment to your father and how you watched it . I wonder how she treated you as an infant , tiny baby . Did you have a nanny?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No I haven’t and no I didn’t.

      1. mollyb5 says:

        Thank you for answering 😉

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

    2. Pale Horse says:

      Wow, Molly your statement hits home for me. A few years into my relationship with my Ex-N, she underwent hypnosis. She told me that during such, she had some type of memory/flashback to a time when her mother was holding her as an infant. She would not tell me any further details but she did say that when this occurred, she had what sounded like a severe panic attack and that she abruptly left the session.

      1. mollyb5 says:

        Well I heard some things my narcs mother told me thinking she was being funny . She told me she would walk the halls when her kids were crying and she said she was so tired she knows she would hit their heads on the sides of the entryway to the bedroom. She was thinking I could relate since my son was a baby at the time. I never , ever let her watch my kids when babies . I trusted no body with them . I knew how mean teenage girls could be too ….since my sisters were older than me and took care of me and my brothers when we were babies .

    3. Mollyb5
      Hey, why would you wanna pour fuel all over your narc? Would that be positive or negative?
      I’m just curious at what made you say this…..

      1. mollyb5 says:

        Positive. I live with the father of my children

      2. mollyb5 says:

        I’m kinda being sarcastic.

  6. Wisenedup says:

    The naarc i was seeing had made a short video about how he felt wherein he mentioned that he had had to join numerous clubs, associations and attend group events because it was imperative for him to not be alone.He also admitted to running from himself (which i presume is the void this post talks about).

    He is a middle mid-ranger and has quite a few fuel lines which include social media like facebook, dating sites and adult websites.The layering of fuel keeps the chasm away.

    This post is extremely relatable and a wonderful summation of a narcissists condition for a non who does not understand/is beginning to understand how a narcissist functions/feels.

    Throwing you a box of chocolate filled olives for this splendid piece HG!

  7. Jane hall says:

    So who or what is that creature? Is it a Spiritual being? Is it demonic? Is it your imagination?

    Strange thing happened last December. I saw my X scuttling across the road clutching a package in his arms. I swear I saw almost, a curved dark figure, narrow – going the whole length of him. Weird. My imagination? The light?

    HG – do you ever pray? For God to free you from this prison you are in? Do you ever just want to face that monster inside you – and then get him removed – do you believe IT can be removed? How did IT get there?

    Hiding away from IT will not make IT go away. Surely there must be an answer. God – if you call on him can help you? Others can help you through this?

    I feel it is tragic to be so trapped.

    Yes, my X held up a mirror and he pretended to be something he was not.
    Last December I think I saw what he was.

    Although I am now away from my X I still pray for him that he can be free one day. Although it will not be with me – with someone else maybe, free and real.

    1. smarinucci1970 says:


    2. Jane Hall and Smarinucci1970….
      I think you need to read HG’s books FUEL and FURY, to understand more, and will no doubt answer some questions. (Apologise if you already have).
      Instead of praying for your narcs, (although yes I can understand why you do so) but how about ask for help with yourselves in not getting entangled with this kind again, and/or having the strength and courage to get out and stay out. They do not care that you pray for them. They only care about fuel, (being negative or positive), and what hurts them….(being criticism of any kind). Give your narcissists an answer they will not forget in a hurry!

      HG through his writing shows us the very vulnerable side to the narcissist. Try to see things from their perspective. It may seem weird, odd, and completely stupid, and will not even make any sense, but as empaths we are good at being able to put ourselves in another’s shoes and trying to make sense of something. Use your empathic abilities to see them as the people they are. They are essentially very damaged people, like shells of a human. They do all they do, for survival, and fuel to maintain their construct which keeps the creature at bay. This creature is symbolic. Think of the creature as something which holds all of their feelings they’ve never learnt to deal with but just dumped into this thing, blob, whatever,….HG describes it as a creature, and probably so that we can picture and understand it better in our mind’s eye. But its basically a very large mass of all negative and probably some positive feelings. This mass, is too overwhelming for him to deal with or comprehend, since he and other narcs only have a child’s emotional reasoning and survival techniques to deal with it.
      Read the books if you’ve already not done so, to find out more as I’m just explaining it how I see it. But its better coming from his own words.
      Please correct if I’m wrong in any way HG.

      1. Jane hall says:

        Yes I understand that the creature is symbolic. Just wondered if it could be spiritually infected – kind of demonic. Only asking.

        I saw Mamma Mia 2 yesterday. I cried, my daughter cried. My daughter said Chers character was a narc.
        But I cried mainly because the film was about the special relationship between mother and daughter and I did feel hatred for my X at that point. Real hatred. Tears down my face in the cinema thinking how he had tried to destroy his own daughter. Didn’t pray for him then that’s for sure.

  8. tigerchelle78 says:

    I am empty, but I don’t know what I want to see. Do you know what I want to see HG? You do not have to answer.
    I don’t think it would be myself, as I don’t like myself. I never can. Probably never will.
    We all have a different types of emptiness at one time or another depending on what we have dealt with or been through but there is an emptiness that is formed that becomes a part of you, and the chasm much too big to close. That kind of emptiness never goes. It is something one must live with.

    1. Windstorm says:

      That’s very sad that you feel you could never love yourself. All I can think is you must have your mind closed to your positive qualities, because we are all of us lovable.

      I hope you will come to see that you are indeed loveable, with many positive qualities. I can see it with the limited interaction I’ve had with you. I hope you will recognize it soon as well. ❤️

      1. Windstorm, that is so very kind of you. Thank you.
        I cannot say I will ever recognise this. Its like my brain refuses most of the time to believe any good. My therapists tried different ways to get me to see the good in myself. And occasionally something will sink in. I am afraid to trust the good. Its like I’m not allowed to. I feel guilt if I do.
        I see the words lovable, but I cannot accept them. But I assure you I feel lots and way too much. And your little comment made me have tears. So something works, but I’m unable to know what the feelings are.
        Thank you from my heart. ~<3~

        1. Windstorm says:

          You’re welcome. I’ve spent many years thinking I was a horrible person, because that’s what the narcs I grew up with told me over and over. But after I got out away from that toxic environment, I would hear people say all kinds of really nice things about me and was shocked that other people thought I was a really good person. Puzzling over this, I came to realize that all those ugly things I’d been told growing up were just self-serving lies, but I’d internalized them into my self-concept.

          Remember that even when you can’t see the good in yourself, the rest of the world still sees it.
          I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

  9. Andrea W says:

    If this is the case, if this terrible fear exists then why not make a change? Why not go back to the place where the beautiful, small child was replaced and break the
    creature? I know that most of the narcs do not have the insight to contemplate, trust or aspire for this. But why, if someone is intelligent and analytical and as together as HG, why not get with the right therapists and go back in time, tackle the creature head on and free the tiny child who the creature appears to have devoured but did NOT and free him? Why not? Wouldn’t it be beneficial to live without the fear?

    1. K says:

      Andrea W
      You may find these comments helpful.

      APRIL 2, 2017 AT 14:03
      Ok. But if you know this then for the love of dog how can you still see yourself as omnipotent?
      Except you HG. You’re in therapy now so I’m guessing the other shoe is dropping. I hope so, for you that Is?
      Have you considerd cold therapy? Or does the thought of re-traumatizing make you cringe?

      HG Tudor
      APRIL 3, 2017 AT 08:29
      Because one has to be that way in order to survive and the outcome of my machinations evidences that that is the case.
      Nobody is causing trauma to me.
      The deconstruction of the construct and the re-construction thereafter in order to apply my considerable abilities towards more pro-social outcomes is the stated aim.


      1. MB says:

        That’s been a long time ago K. That may have been the aim of the good doctors, but I’ve seen no evidence of it being a goal for HG himself.

        1. K says:

          I think it may still be in the works.

          JULY 11, 2018 AT 14:03
          What is your position on doing an isolation experiment now? Still considering it or moved away in a different direction?

          HG Tudor
          JULY 20, 2018 AT 01:24
          It remains extant.


          1. MB says:

            Apparently, there’s a lot on here I miss K! How do you see ALL the comments, girlie! Do you subscribe to every post?!?

          2. Windstorm says:

            I ran across the “magic button” for that just the other day. If you have a WordPress account, you can go into settings, then notifications, then receive all comments (if you are following the blog). Then you no longer have to do anything to new articles, you will automatically get every comment to every article, even really old articles if the get new comments.

          3. K says:

            Noted and thank you, WS!

          4. Windstorm says:

            You’re welcome, K. The drawback is after I did that, I no longer get notifications when someone likes one of my comments (I enjoy positive fuel, too!).

            But WordPress is squirrelly for me anyway, I’d only started receiving notifications for a few weeks. They just started out of the blue. So who knows – they may start back up in a few weeks! 😄

          5. K says:

            WordPress is squirrelly and I try to maintain NC with WP and, lately, when I “like” comments it “unlikes” them. WTF!

            BTW, I think you are a great person and I have always seen the good in you since I have been here.

          6. Windstorm says:

            That’s very sweet of you, K! And I have always felt the same about you as well!

          7. Clarece says:

            That is how I’m set up too!

          8. MB says:

            Thank you Windstorm. I just wish they could come in as notifications on my little bell in the WP app instead of in tidal waves of emails!

          9. K says:

            Ha ha ha….no, not all of them. I RSVPed to jenna regarding a passive hoover on Tenacity so I signed up and then got the notification for Clarece’s comment. I try to go through the threads and read as much as I can, however, I do miss/forget things.

          10. Clarece says:

            Yes, I subscribe and in the WordPress Settings I have new notifications for comments to send “instantly” to my email. I read everything through one of my email accounts. That way you also get a “reply” button to every comment as well.

          11. MB says:

            Clarece & Windstorm, Wow! That’s a lot of comments! I might get so many then that I miss important stuff that way too. But I’ll try it through my app and see how it goes.

          12. Clarece says:

            I woke up in Disney World on my vacation last month to like 300 Knowing the Narcissist email notifications and then comments are looped together on the same thread so 300 emails could mean 500 comments to read. I feel HG’s pain in moderating… lol

          13. MB says:

            Disney World would be way more painful to me! Ha Ha

          14. K says:

            Ditto that. I am working on brevity.

          15. Windstorm says:

            Lol! Yeah, reading all the comments is like having an extra part-time job! It’s a lot easier since I retired! 😝

          16. MB says:

            Although I would like to read them all, I don’t think I’ll have the time. Maybe I could learn to speed read like HG.

          17. MB says:

            Brief isolations to the US from time to time to see how it’s tolerated before “the big one”? It will have to include being away from the blog too 😢

        2. K says:

          This explains it better.

          HG Tudor
          AUGUST 7, 2017 AT 09:19
          The purpose of the isolation is not to see if it “cures me” but rather what will the effect on me be by being denied fuel for a sustained period of time.
          There is also the question mark of what happens if it goes beyond a period of time which is deemed acceptable to the good doctors.
          They advocate an orchestrated deconstruction (not based on fuel removal) and then reconstruction which takes years. It is me that has wanted to see what happens when I am isolated and denied fuel for a sustained period and to also to convey that to readers.


          1. MB says:

            Thank you K. The possibility of this happening to HG worries me for his well being. Besides, with all the talk of being effective as he is and not seeing any need to change, it would be shocking if he ever goes through with it. What would be the motivation? I know about his red hot button of inaccuracy, but I don’t see him putting himself in harms way to prove whether or not deconstruction works.

          2. K says:

            It might appeal to his sense of omniscience.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Of course the doctors advocate that which would take years. I estimate that left up to them, that either the ‘cure’, or the determination of it all ending as a fascinating study but with no conclusive results, will arrive right about the time that Mommy Dearest decides there will be no more cheques written.

          4. mollyb5 says:

            Cool ! Intense .

          5. Contagious says:

            You won’t like this. But I have found isolation to cut out detractors. The king becomes the king again as no one says otherwise.

  10. Quasi says:

    Beautiful.. as an explanation, as a truth, as an understanding, as an aching, as a soul.

    I liked the elements of his facade that were not apparent in me at that time; maybe he mirrored what I wanted to be rather then what I actually was. Maybe he saw in me what I could not.
    Maybe he showed me a better version of me.
    I could not see me in his mirror, I did not know who I was anymore.
    My time with him regardless of how painful it was, helped me to find me… I thank him for this.

    1. MB says:

      Quasi, “I show you yourself through my mirror and you fall for that image believing it to be me, believing it to be my essence and substance. You do not realise that you are seeking yourself and indeed you do not see yourself when I mirror you back at yourself.”

      My best friend told me that if I could see myself as she does, as others do, I would realize I’m too good for those Narcs. I deserve better. I am better than that.

      When I read your comment, it made me think, it’s not just the Narcs that can see the real you, it’s just they who have the ability to show it to you in a way it can be FELT. The love that you feel for them cuts through all the self-doubt, self-loathing, and guilt (during the golden period anyway) and makes you love your true self in a way that words alone just cannot.

      We are pretty awesome aren’t we? For me though, loving another is easy. Loving myself is not. And that is why we are chosen.

      1. Quasi says:

        That is beautiful MB, thank you..
        I do see more beauty and goodness in others then I do in myself for sure, but I am so much better in knowing who I am now and accepting who I am.. that is what I have gained from him, I was kind of pushed off a cliff into the unknown territory. I have quite literally broke myself down into pieces, analysed and dissected myself and put myself back together again. I would not have done that if I had not met him, I wouldn’t of had cause to.

        Narcissists can definitely pick out vulnerabilities and traits, he probably spotted me a mile off, when he first met me the grin on his face had something about it, it wasn’t just a “oh she seems nice” kind if grin, he looked at me like he wanted to eat me!! I just thought he had had too many Guinness’s and thought no more about it… oh to know what I know now.. lol.

        Your spot on, my friends and family and especially my husband tell me regularly how they regard me as a person. The people in my life who know what happened with the narcissist have not changed their opinion of me which is so very important to me.

        I teach people skills in self esteem development all the time, and I do use what I know, so I’m in a better place then before, but it’s the case for so many, that you can be kinder to others then you can be to yourself at times.

        I know I am guilty for valuing others needs as a higher priority to my own, regularly.
        Maybe that is the mother / self sacrifice instinct again also, who knows.

        Your awesome MB, I very much enjoy our conversations, and feel very heartened by the compassion and care you show everyone here. You are a gift lovely lady.. Qx

        1. MB says:

          You’re awesome too Quasi, it’s very nice not to be judged. I know I’ve made mistakes and I don’t blame the narcs. I blame myself and take full responsibility. I enjoy our conversations too. Does your husband know about your narc affair?

          1. Quasi says:

            No not yet, I say that as it is in my mind often. Everyone that I confided in – my sister and 4 close friends. ( I’m not counting the Sexual health clinic nurse in that – god that was embarrassing- oh yeah I’m here to have an STI test as I cheated on my husband ) thankfully it was all clear…

            They all advised me not to say anything to him. They said it would kill him (true) and asked how I could explain that the narcissist was a narcissist and the dynamic of that, how do you explain the manipulation, the mind games, the reason your rational mind takes a walk off the cliff when your near the buggers … it would have only happened with a narcissist, as only a narcissist with no boundaries, no care for me, and full of manipulation would. I was not seeking anyone, I had not cheated on my husband before this time, it would not have even entered my mind as a thought before the narcissist.

            The clincher was my sister and best friend both saying it’s not about me now and doing the so say right thing; it’s the very young children we have, that they deserve both parents, and that they would pick up on it even if we stayed together.
            My best friend was brutal but so kind a the same time, she has a way of telling it straight. She felt that if it was a long and ongoing affair then yes tell, but not for what it was.

            The intimate period of the relationship was short lived (3 months ) we had sex only once which brought about the end in my eyes, although technically disengagement 2 months after that. I distanced myself and did not contact him after that weekend.
            I asked to meet him the following day but that was to confirm that it could never happen again, that we could not be alone together. And at best we could only be pub mates. He was not happy with that but put on a front/ deflected and projected.

            Sometimes my ability to think in others perspectives is annoying as I often think how that was actually horrible for him. He thinks we had great sex ( definitely his perception alone) and he was amazing ( his perception) he thought I had asked to meet to do it again or to tell him how amazing it was etc. He was not expecting what I said, otherwise he would not have turned up. I don’t think it just wounded him that day, but I proper hurt him. It was not with intent, it was me trying to put in boundaries too late, but still trying to keep open whatever friendship we might be able to salvage.
            To him it was rejection. Another person telling him he was not and is not good enough. It was a no win situation. He returned the hurt when he cut me out of his life / just an end.

            I have struggled with the not telling my husband as honesty is a big thing for me, i look at him and think he deserves someone honest and true and completely devoted to him.
            I have been compensating by being ridiculously honest in every other part of life .. trying to be real and me.
            I also struggle with it as I cared very deeply for the narcissist, it was not love, I can’t love someone I do not know, but he was pretty deep in my heart, and his ever presence was intense.

            My guilt is my own, my punishment, my cross as it were.
            It is felt. And very rightly so.
            As you do, I take responsibility for me and my choices.
            I own me.

            Sorry lovely, you asked one question and you got war and peace in response.. lol

          2. NarcAngel says:

            You said once that you were set to tell your husband and that he interrupted you and the disclosure never happened. Do you think that he may have anticipated that something damaging was coming and the interruption was intentional? I ask this because sometimes we know that something is wrong (or we may well know exactly what the issue is) but do not want to be faced with it head on and all of the details that come with that. We would sometimes rather accept that no one is perfect and people make mistakes, but that it does not diminish entirely what we have (especially if it was an isolated incident or temporary). Maybe if he does/did suspect, allowing him to reconcile it however he does without being confronted directly, and continuing on with respect is demonstrating a kind of love on both your parts unless he specifically asks? I dont know. Just my thoughts.

          3. Quasi says:

            That is exactly what I thought NarcAngel, I believe he knew i was going to tell him something like this, or something he did not want to hear, and I believe he diverted me away purposefully.

            It was this factor that lead me to discuss it with my best friend, I was hesitant to talk to her as she knows us both very well and most often time is spent together with us as a couple. I feared her judgement of me the most because I value her so highly. She is a straight talker but did not condemn me, she was amazing.. she was very much of that opinion too, he doesn’t want to know. And it would not necessarily be of his benefit to know.
            It is within me -the want to tell him, a thought. A Thought that to be honest and have the trust that I abused in tact. But in reality it would probably do the opposite, it would be a hurt that I’m not sure he would recover from.

            The comment I made here was typical of me answering a simple question with an over explanation, because it’s an Achilles heal, a subject that sits ill with me. It is my guilt that feeds it. I should feel guilt, I should feel bad for what I have choosen to do. I’m not saying this in a way that I should beat myself with it repeatedly, I don’t do that so much now. I mean it in the way that if I did not feel guilt and badly for what I decided to do then I would be more worried about the narcissists effect on me and my ability to feel. I would t recognise that person at all.

            Everything you have stated is spot on, we are just continuing with love and regard for each other and I’m trying to be a better person, who makes better decisions, and still acknowledge that I have changed very much so.
            Thank You NarcAngel, your insights and questions have always been helpful and thoughtful, I hope you know that I think very highly of you.

          4. MB says:

            Quasi, I agree with your sister and friends. Telling him will not take your pain or guilt away. It will only magnify it by the amount of his hurt. And for what? One (lousy) romp in the sack. He wasn’t a somatic I’m guessing. Too bad it wasn’t good sex at least! I’m very glad he didn’t give you cooties. But ever presence can be more difficult to cure.
            I’ve never done the physical deed, but I can only imagine how mortifying it was to go to the clinic.

            You are not a bad person, wife, or mother. You are human. And you were up against a force of nature no less dangerous than a hurricane.

            I’ll return the favor. A song for you…


          5. Quasi says:

            Thank you lovely MB…
            I have have not heard any music from that artist before it was very sweet.
            It would be nice to be a diamond in the sense of strength and resilience as well as reflective light. I only know a few American country artists, I’m actually going to see the first aid kit and the staves in November when they tour over here in the UK… very excited.

            The narcissist I knew was a victim LMR, so no somatic no ! Lol..
            And it was not a pleasant experience, I liked the way he kissed me, and we were intimate in other ways but when it came to that one situation, no I did not like that at all.

            Again the part of me that flips that to positive is actually very thankful that it was what it was, and that it was him that entered my world.
            If a somatic or elite targeted me I believe I would have been in trouble, I can’t say for sure if I would have retreated from him as I did the man I knew. There was more involved then just that Experience as to why I pulled away. It was also very much about me valuing myself again and not tolerating how he was interacting with me also, as I had pulled away before we slept together, not in contact or really responding to bait.

            In my real world and marriage I am so the dominant one, I am the main earner and I make the major decisions and lead us as a family.
            So if the narcissist was a somatic or elite who I viewed as higher in the dominance hierarchy then I would have found that very attractive and I would have likely been up a certain creek without a paddle…. so thank **** he was not these things and I learned from my experience without completing destroying my world and what I love.
            Again I thank him for being who he is.
            Thanks again MB – your lush … Qx

          6. MB says:

            I’ve never heard of the artist you’re seeing in November, Quasi. Ima YouTube them. I am a country girl and a fan of country music although I listen to everything. I find that the songs of the female country artist resonate with me the most. #1 being Taylor Swift. (And I love her non-country stuff too.) She’s not the most talented singer, but dang what a songwriter! #2 Jennifer Nettles/Sugarland #3 Miranda Lambert.

            The way you describe your role in your marriage sounds exactly like mine. The alpha male very much appeals to me as well because it is different to what I have. Having somebody take control seems super sexy and the narc fits that bill. Of course, they take it too far and I’m much too independent and rebellious to live under somebody’s thumb. Somebody going through my phone, telling me what I can and cannot do, who I can and cannot spend time with, putting tracking devices in my car…f**k that! Especially when all the while they do everything and everyone what when and where they want. He’s gotta go to sleep sometime! I’m a good SIPPS, I enjoy giving fuel and living in a short-lived little fantasy, but I’d never be crowned as PS because I rail against being controlled. It’s probably been my saving grace over the years.

          7. Quasi says:

            Hey MB,

            First aid kit are two sisters- and country music, I think you would like them, lions roar is their first album and I recommend that one, I don’t have their new one.
            The staves are supporting them at the concert and the real reason I want to go . Again dynamic is three sisters, beautiful singers gorgeous harmonies- more folk music though- but stunning in my opinion.

            I’m with you on the control thing, for me the appeal/ attraction (with dominance) would be only in the sexual arena. So the DE streak needs to pipe down and, the rest of me needs to not meet a somatic or elite narcissist.. if I do I hope to spot the flags early, and not go there.. I do not think I’m likely to meet either In my home town. Maybe a cerebral through my career, but I think I would like interaction with them as a NISS, I love intellectual stimulation- although we don’t choose the role huh.. the choice we do have is if we elect to play the game when we know the game is being played…

            If a person tried to control me in the ways you describe, it wouldn’t happen, I’m not ipps material either and likely to fail the tests… I am also quite fiercely independent – hopefully that will be my saving grace if I ever come across another narcissist. As I have said before I can’t predict the future in knowing what will come across my path, I’m just hopefully that now I know better I will do better and make better choices … everything is crossed as I say this ! Not sure how I’m going to walk no though! Lol

          8. Clarece says:

            I think because you believe your husband deserves someone loyal and honest and you truly sound as you have a renewed sense of being faithful to him, you need to honor that and be that each day moving forward with him. Don’t tell him. You did suffer greatly but have severed the narc relationship. As time passes and you feel secure again in your marriage, the guilt will wane. Plus you have a strong support group with your friends, sister and here. Telling him now, would wreak havoc and stress on both of you, plus shatter his trust of you that would be forever changed…and that could break you again.

          9. Quasi says:

            Thank you clarece,
            I agree with you, it will always be a thought, but thoughts are just thoughts and I have the understanding of potential outcomes for us both if I did tell him. So I will not likely act upon it.
            Guilt may reduce but part of me wants it, it motivates me to do better (hopefully) …
            thank you again for your thoughts clarece, that was very kind of you.

          10. Clarece says:

            You are very welcome. Here’s a thought if the other guilty thoughts start creeping in your head. If your marriage crumbles, the Narc wins. Don’t let him win.

          11. Quasi says:

            He won’t win clarece, when I say thoughts are just thoughts, I mean that I do recognise them for what they are, but they do not govern me and I very often choose not to respond to them or agree with them. But I recognise them because they come from a guilt I deserve to have.

            Unfortunately for the narcissist I knew, I fear that he will not win in any capacity, for what he seeks if not attainable; no one will ever be enough, they will always fail him in his eyes. He will end up on his own and likely isolated by that time, due to his treatment of others. If he views this as his choice as he got rid of the horrible people who treated him badly, then this may maintain his facade and superiority to an extent but the fact remains that he will never know love, or connection and he will never know what it feels like to live with “meaning”.

            So I do not think he will win, even If my marriage crumbles ( which I sincerely hope does not happen) it will not be because of him, it would be because of me and my dynamic with my husband , it would be about my husband and I not working, and not because of the narcissist.

            The part of me that cared for him feels sad when I think of him and his inability to just be. I can not wipe out the understanding that I have of him, that he was a victim of abuse, made worse because he was a defensless child, he was criticised, emotionally rejected and physically beaten near enough daily from 2 years old by a narcissist father. His mother saw and turned her back.

            I know it is learnt behaviour, his defence mechanism was to mimic and learn from this treatment. However he is a mid ranger and does not or can not have the insight to why he does what he does, he goes mainly by instinct and he does truly believe that he is a good guy that people don’t understand and mistreat – he continues the victim role. However saying that he knows he hurts people, he can see he hurts people but he feels it’s justified ( he feels he has had worse) even though he doesn’t know why, it just feels right for him, he feels he is protecting himself from the bad people.
            He would say to me often “I don’t trust anyone “ and I believe him now, paranoid and afraid, this is how he lives, in a cycle of attach / detach repeat.
            This is my picture of him from my time with him, observing him and what he has spoken.
            He won’t win .

          12. Windstorm says:

            You just described so many narcs I know. It’s humorous how they think they are so special, but they’re are so average!

          13. Clarece says:

            Quasi, you are very self-aware and I think you’ll come out of this in more time in a very positive way. Yes, you are absolutely right, that ultimately your marriage is between you and your husband’s dynamic and what that was prior to the Narc even being in the picture. He’s only a piece of the pie. I totally get that.
            I do really hate hearing how any parent could abuse their baby or toddler daily / weekly / at all. As a parent you created this little human. It is half of you. How could you not view that honor to raise it as sacred? I will never get it.

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