5 Common No Contact Mistakes – No. 2

5-common-no-contactmistakes

A second common mistake which occurs when somebody implements no contact is thinking that there will not be a hoover from us. As I have explained, the hoover takes place at various points in the dynamic between narcissist and victim. In this instance, it concerns the post escape or post discard hoover.

Where you have escaped us, you will almost always face the Initial Grand Hoover as we unleash a frenzied attempt to bring you back under our control. This will happen where you tip us off and also once we realise you have embarked on your escape without giving us any notice of what you are doing. (You can read more about how we react in such instances with these articles How No Contact Feels – Part One   How No Contact Feels Part – Two  How No Contact Feels – Part Three ) Should you manage to resist the Initial Grand Hoover you are usually granted a period of respite as we seek fuel from our supplementary sources (secondary and tertiary ) and look to find a different primary source.

Where you have been discarded of course there is no Initial Grand Hoover. We have a new primary source and we focus on that person, effectively deleting you from our minds. You may try to contact us, to get answers, to win us back, to try and resolve unfinished business and you are rebuffed and receive malign hoovers which cause you to back off.

Accordingly, in the case of escape you have rejected the Initial Grand Hoover and there is silence. Or, you have been discarded and your attempts to connect with us have been rejected and there is silence from us. You implement or maintain no contact going forward and the fact that you have heard nothing from us, no messages, no phone calls, nobody calling around to see you, no enquiries from our friends or family causes you to think that you have weathered the storm and that it is all over.

It is not.

I will return to this presently.

The other common mistake that people make with regard to thinking that we will not hoover is making use of the phrase ‘final discard’. I have seen this used many times and I do not know where it has originated from. It appears to be the case that people seem to think that there is some final flourish from us as we tell you that this time it is REALLY over and this time I mean it (although didn’t I say that last time?)

There is no such thing as a final discard. I have written previously that the word discard is not accurate because it really is a dis-engagement. In our minds, our relationship with you lasts until either you die or we die. It is for life because you belong to us. Yes, we will put you from our minds at certain times (when enjoying the golden period with someone else, when we place an IPSS on the shelf) but this does not mean that it is over.

Just because you have weathered the sustained effort of the Initial Grand Hoover to win you back does not mean that we have got the message and we will leave you alone. It is a temporary cessation in the hostilities. Our need for fuel will send us elsewhere as we hunt down a new primary source but we will be back. You have a period of respite by which you can build your no contact and recover but do not be drawn into thinking that this one off blitz of hoovering was the end of it. Similarly, do not think just because we have told you that we wish you would fuck off and die, or disappear off the planet that we will not come back for more. Just because you have tried to speak to us but we have rebuffed you does not mean that that is the end. Not at all.

We are contrarians, hypocrites and engage in contradictory behaviour. This is because of the narcissistic perspective that we adopt. We do what the fuel requires of us. All is as the fuel dictates it to be. If that means in January you are persona non grata, it does not mean that by May we will not declare our love for you once more. What has gone before is the past and we have no sense of shame or reluctance in coming back to you again. It does not matter that we once cast you aside because you failed us. That was then and this is now. Now somebody else has failed us, they have been painted black and this means that you are back in favour. You have recovered and we see you through the lens of being a ‘good’ person once again, someone who is going to give us what we need. It is irrelevant that you let us down  previously. What matters is that our perspective causes you to be seen as a good source of fuel and we want it.

It is understandable why you might think we might not hoover, this may be for any of the following reasons:-

  1. We were so savage in our discard of you;
  2. You exposed us to people when you escaped;
  3. Significant time has passed;
  4. You believe there was a ‘final discard’;
  5. You hear we are with somebody else;
  6. You are with someone new;
  7. You sent us packing when we tried the Initial Grand Hoover.

Whilst these may influence the likelihood of a hoover occurring they will not in themselves mean that it will not happen.

Accordingly, just because of the circumstances and the passage of time, you decide you can go back on social media, you can accept friend requests from strangers, you can go to the places you had avoided for some time, you can talk about us freely again with your friends or even our friends and so on. This is dangerous.

I am not suggesting that you must spend the rest of your life always looking over your shoulder. That is unsustainable but you ought not to think that there will never be a hoover because if you do this you will instinctively lower your guard and in so doing you will cause two things

  1. You are far more likely to activate a Hoover Trigger by entering the spheres of influence; and
  2. You will lower the bar on the Hoover Execution Criteria and thus increase the chances of a hoover happening.

Of course you may well be in a better place and thus far more able to repel the hoover when it happens but there remains a risk, because of your inherent susceptibility to our kind, that as I explained in Part One of this series, you will allow exposure to us cause your emotional thinking to rise and over take your logical thinking which means you are risking being dumped into the emotional sea once again.

If you think a hoover will never happen you will become complacent and you will then start to do the very things which will result in a hoover being MORE likely to happen. Thus, by always reminding yourself that there is a risk (even if it is very small) of a hoover taking place you will continue to maintain a degree of vigilance which ensures this risks stays small and you do not begin to engage in behaviours which encourage us.

I see repeatedly people state that they know their narcissist will not hoover again. They write that it will not happen and they are safe. The only way you are safe from a hoover is if we have died.

I have hoovered somebody after a 12 year hiatus. I would do it after a longer period of time if there was a Hoover Trigger and the criteria are met. There is fuel available and we will take it and assert our superiority and control over you. Remember, we made an investment in you, all that time ago and we will want to keep drawing on it. The fact you have not heard from us for a long time is because our attention was elsewhere and your no contact is proving effective so even if there is  Hoover Trigger, the criteria are not met and therefore no hoover follows.

If you start thinking we will never hoover you, you will become complacent and that is when you run a greater risk of a hoover actually taking place.

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54 thoughts on “5 Common No Contact Mistakes – No. 2”

  1. PS: I never spoke with the other person about what I know he is because I wanted to hurt him because that was definitely not an objective, and also I thought I spoke in absolute confidence. Further, I was at an extremely desperate state of mind and was extremely affected by my new understanding of what was going on but of course to him it complicated his being if logic and understanding could be applied to the chaos and mess he was creating around him. If I knew all I know now I would never confide in only very very long-term and one or few friends, if at all, given that hell just comes loose if you expose a narc like him, regardless of your ‘motive’ for doing so and given my new understanding that there are really only a few people who will not tell others, if you confide in them.

  2. How to implement no contact if you are dealing with a highly strategic narc who has schemed using a IGH first and then only to start cruel devaluation phase not long after and all the time made use of 1 or more influential persons in your Social Media network, and possibly also some unknown people, to monitor, drive and latest to kind of keeping the engagement. Like: First a a lot of Social Media likes as in non stop likes over a long period, then followed by slowing down but at the same unpredictable pattern likewise the ongoing devaluation as executed by the narc himself, then only for the influential person to stop following you right before the presumed narc discard (or was it a very long silent treatment) and then, at an exact time afterwards a silence treatment of a year, with some minor interactions with the narc where he only played, this influential person suddenly insists on following you again, sending multiple requests. The narc played this game with me because I left him for another person, getting me back in was only to devalue and discard and now I am in this in-between strange status, where technically there is really not any ‘we’ anymore given the latest move was severe triangulation with this IPPS, and he has depicted me as a crazy person to her presumably. But then only because of the timing of this influential persons re-entrance into your Social Media, just right before the seemingly final blow of the narc, and combined with very strategic actions in the Social Media from this influential person, you know that there is still some scheming going on and I just don’t know what will happen next – and I just don’t know how to protect myself from what will happen, because I cannot identify all of this coterie or other similar in my Social Media and make no contact with these people, and I cannot take any ‘action’ what so ever vis a vis the influential person. Everything has been run so smooth and scheming and I just have no idea what is going to come next and how to get out of this ‘alive’, I have no idea of the narcs intentions next given that he has schemed for this outcome since some years but it is hard for me to picture any benign actions of his since his scheming of getting me back in turned out was only to start playing with me and toss me to the side and finally followed by multiple triangulations under various forms, with his IPPS and malign hoovers only to play gothca game. I know that he knows that I know what he is, but I never told him myself, only somebody else must have told him what I said about him, and which is likely, but I know he knows because he has been playing with me on some other occasions talking about the personality disorder by its official name, and even once asked me if I were not this personality disorder (projection). I know this is his way of playing and possibly letting me know why he is punishing me. He likes very much to kind of give indications of his next moves and then he can always blame me for being stupid for not having analysed what was said, thoroughly enough, so therefore it is ‘my own fault’ what happens, while he is playing with my feelings and getting supply. Someone can possibly have told him, maybe in a challenging and exposing manner that they know from me what he is, hence all these hateful actions towards me, hence that I fear a motive for some further revengeful endgame, also because I am technically perhaps not so much in the physical sphere at this point and hence of less use potentially but technically available within the Social Media sphere since he is employing these Social Media connections. Still the physical sphere was not a problem before because we met anyway but on the other hand it was marked by one person in his coterie not long after the narcs presumed discard, that I was not physcially in the sphere anymore, like as if it was the narc message to me through the coterie and as if it was the power and the decision of the narc that I was not physically in the sphere anymore – only I had not been physically in the sphere already for some years at that point and the coterie knows that so that is why I feel certain that this was indeed a message from the narc via his coterie. But then why the influential person showing in my Social Media again right when you thought that this was it. How do you possibly do no contact with such a scheming and strategic and influential narc. It is all so elaborate.

  3. HG, I have a question following on from my earlier query about my ex possibly checking my Facebook business page regularly. Assuming it is him, why would he be doing this? It started a couple of days following discard. What is the purpose of checking on me and what does he gain from it?
    Thanks

      1. Thanks HG, I don’t really put personal stuff on there as a rule so I don’t really know what information he is hoping to find!

  4. Reading these posts for days now and I still struggle with this Hoover concept and no contact . He is the one who disappeared after 5 years without a single word . He blocked me so I couldn’t contact him after about 3 months . He has since taken down his social media pages . My question is why would I need to go no contact when clearly he has done that to me already? It’s been over 4 months and no word or Hoover as these posts speak of . I will say that he does seem to have narcassitic trsits but was never verbally , physically to me . Mostly just emotionally unavailable . I do remember when I asked him about the way he always pushed me away he said he was broken , didn’t feel emotions like other people etc . I said once to him “ why don’t you ever just say goodbye then “ his reply was Never Goodbye . Which is what brought me here tibsrart with . The first couple months I was quite emotional but now I’m thinking logically and am struggling as his actions aren’t logical

  5. HG, after posting yesterday saying that I couldn’t see my ex hoovering in the future, I read your book Black Hole. I am now wondering if he is in fact passively hoovering. When he disengaged he blocked me on Facebook, however I then started getting daily views on my business account which is unusually high (I used to get maybe 1 or 2 a month). This went on for four weeks. Then two weeks with no views. Now it has started again and in the last 7 days I’ve had 5 views. The stats show they are all the same person and from a mobile. They have all been at roughly the same time, late evening. What is your opinion please? Is it likely to be him and if so, what is the purpose and why so soon? – he has a new IPPS so surely I do not exist to him at the moment.

      1. Thanks HG. He discarded me by telling me he was seeing her and that their relationship is more serious than ours was (she has been introduced to his family/friends very quickly which I never was in the three months we were together). So wouldn’t that make her an IPPS?

    1. Claire, Mine did the same during six months NC when I was convinced he was not thinking of me at all (mutual disengagement – I was IPSS). As soon as we were back in contact, it stopped, so I knew it was him. Now he does it with fake FB profiles. I blocked the ones I found but I am sure there are more. Indirect hoovers in my case probably trying to get me to break NC.

      1. Thanks for your comment SMH! My gut feeling is that it is him. After the first four weeks I reached out with a text, which he ignored. The page views stopped after that and I haven’t contacted him at all. They started up again a week ago. So yes – possibly him trying to bait me into contacting him. I’m determined not to this time though!

      2. Claire, not sure this is posting in the correct place but trust your gut. It is him and he is trying to get you to reengage. You sent him a text, which was fuel. He ignored it trying to get even more fuel – to start the cycle again. You didn’t react to him ignoring you, so he is trying again. He knows that you know that he is with someone else so he has to be indirect and persistent because it wouldn’t be ‘proper’ to hoover directly. It sounds familiar to me! In my case, I was fine being IPSS but I think the type of narc must make all the difference. Mine is a mid range cerebral. Passive aggressive, baby!

  6. This is where I am stuck because, no matter how much I read about how a narcissist will always hoover, I just cannot see it happening. It has been 7 weeks of complete silence since my ex disengaged (telling me he is seeing someone else). Now, I realise that he will be in the golden period with her but he told me he never had any emotional attachment to me and never would (a rare moment of truth?!) and that he never goes back to a former girlfriend

  7. 10 months with no word from the narc. To the best of my knowledge, the appliance (secondary intimate) was painted white at the last interaction. The narc has been with the new IPPS for over 2 years now. What gives? Seems like it is reasonable to make the conclusion challenged in this article.

    1. You haven’t been in one of the spheres.

      Sometimes they leave for a very long time only to show up many years later but I do find there comes a day when they are just done with you for a long time

      1. Thank you for your insight, Lori. I guess what’s confusing to me is I asked HG whether a secondary source is ever discarded without being devalued. He said no. To the best of my knowledge, I was not devalued. So perhaps then, this is shelving but it seems shelving shouldn’t last that long. Thanks again for your response!

      2. IL
        I’ve been shelved by multiple narcs for many years at a time. If they’re busy with other fuel sources, they may not think about you for years.

      3. Thank you so much for sharing your experience, Windstorm. It is very helpful.

  8. I honestly believe that my narc won’t hoover me. He is now with someone who is an excellent source of fuel. Much better than I ever was or could be. She is taking it so far that I really am sorry for her. Last time she forgave him for sleeping with someone else after only two weeks and said: “Oh it’s ok, I know you are just going through midlife crisis”… And he is laughing at her how dumb she is. But he is all set because she cleans, cooks, washes dishes and does laundry. She is also much easier to approach than I am. She lives closer (much closer) and works with him. So in conclusion I think that I really am one of the lucky ones who won’t be hoovered. But we will see…

  9. After noticing many red flags with one ex, I dumped him and told him to never ever contact me again. He promised me he would not and I felt comfortable with his promises because our arguments were so heated separation was the wisest choice and advisable. All I needed was a few weeks away from him. After two months of no contact and silent treatments from both sides he hoovered me via text, email and showed up unannounced at my door. That was annoying and frustrating because I wanted to recover quickly and concentrate on dating other people. I gave him a few more chances and the same red flags arose. Once after another break up he did not contact me for 5 months. A joyous moment which I ceased, took advantage of his absence, dated and all that I felt for him had fully dissipated. Looking back it was just infatuation because I distinctly remember when times were calm I would often think I would be better off with someone else. Anyway, from then on he has been hoovering me every 3 months for the past 3 years. I get no surge of emotion thinking about him or reading his messages and I never reply.

    The main issue between he and me was that he didn’t want a committed g/b relationship. Every time we would get back together I would ask without fail what we were. (Yes I wanted to piss him off! I enjoyed seeing him getting angry, squirm seeing his face redden and his neck vein protruding about to pop! ~ It gave me a rush followed by a calming sensation for some reason.) His replies were always like this: “Why does a label matter? We are what we are. Those labels should not define us. We could be happy and not be boyfriend and girlfriend or meet our families and friends”. Bullshit. It’s not like I wanted marriage. Why stick around with in a mediocre relationship which its bordering on fuck buddy’izm when better men are readily available who want something purposeful. His hoovers are puzzling considering his choice to forgo a true and meaningful relationship. Hoovers do not change my mind. They do the opposite. They strengthen my resolve.

    HG Tudor you are right that narcissists do hoover and there is no final discard. I believe the final discard lies with me in this particular instance and I could implement 100% NC but why would I? I’m in his thoughts and his hoovers are compliments. No?

    1. CPR,
      Couldn’t help but notice the description ‘mediocre relationship’ , and then your last paragraph. His mediocre behaviour is insulting to you. You deserve so much better.

      1. Caroline, Thank you. We all deserve better and there is better. Who wants confused narcissistic men in our lives? They want to be head of a family and in control and yet cannot manage to keep a happy wife or partner for life. Like Mr Tudor likes to say – risible! I’m sorry but I am not familiar with your story. Is it similar to mine?

  10. I realised he was a narc and went NC after 6 years entaglement. I was recently hoovered after 9 months with No Contact. I unblocked him on the mobile. I know that is wrong, but somehow I thought that with all my insight (from reading all your articles) and knowledge, I somehow could manage to resist and see through him. (I called him out AS a narc last year, but he pretended like that had not happened). He sent me a SMS and that became a conversation, where he tried to meet me. I agreed to meet him, and we had sex.

    He called and messaged me every day for a week, tried to feed me all kinds of lies, how he had feelings for me and tried to manipulate me by future faking and gaslighting things he has done in the past.

    I had a lot of emotional thinking, because I ended up having sex with him. I did not know that I could get affected that way- since I know what he is, and how he functions. But I have learned that it is very hard to see the manipulations in the moment, when it is happening, and there is no chance of calling him out. He just does not accept it.

    I broke contact and just stated again that he is a narcissist, he can not fool me, he has no control over me and I want nothing to do with him.

    After a week I get a message where he writes: “i want to try to fix things with M (the IPPS he got after I left, who he left just when he hoovered me)
    So I am not going to try to contact you anymore. I have had feelings for her all the way, but I am a ficked up person, you were right about that. So I am saying goodbye now”.

    Mr Tudor, is this a Malign Hoover, because his Benign did not work?
    I have not answered. I see that he is disregarding my last message to him, and pretending to be the one breaking contact. Oh, and also he has deleted his Instagram. I used to have him on my “blocked persons”- list, and now he is gone. Could I be watching a fuel crisis?
    Thanks a lot, in advance.

    1. No, that is not malign.

      Thank you for your honesty in your comment which demonstrates how the belief that you can somehow resist and control the situation with our kind is led by emotional thinking and has a high risk of increased ensnarement (as you experienced by engaging in intimacy with the narcissist again thus providing fuel and submitting to control).

      I do not see a fuel crisis.

      1. Ok, thank for answering my long personal post. So what is it, just an attemt to triangulate?

      2. Get it. He tried to reinstate control, by making up some Shit. I never bought any of it… Predictable nonsense. Did it wound him, that I did not reply?

  11. HG,

    if a narcissist discarded you and you went no contact and you know he stalks your social media but all he can see is that you are happy, you never mention him, you act like he never existed but sometimes you mantion how great it was with your previous exes or he can see you are friendly with other exes but still in no contact with them – does it wound them?

    1. Yes. But do not become preoccupied with seeking to wound the narcissist because you are continuing a form of engagement – remember, once you know, you go, get out and stay out, this includes thinking about how he will consider your current situation.

  12. After almost commiting suicide today , because of all the difficult situations i’m in now this toxic web of deception from birth MatriNarc Siblings to ex-Husband and two ex boyfriends . Finally realizing going no contact is where true power is rooted . “The wearing of guilt “ had me on my lowest today . But the advice from you H.G Reading the comments of other bloggers made me strong again . This is just the beginning off a difficult battle but now I do believe I Matter . I thank you all so much .

    1. DoForLuv – I understand the weight of wearing guilt. I’m sorry yours brought you so low – but so happy to hear that you worked through it…take care, stay strong.

      1. Thank you so much ! WhoCares,
        I’am happy you understand but sad at the same time because you’ve felt this too many times as well I think . I really appreciate your powerfull words . Love and light to you .

      1. Doforluv

        Please seek some professional help. If you are that low you need some help with this and that’s ok a lot of us do. Please don’t try to go it alone

      2. Thank you much Caroline . Yes ! We all really do matter . Much love to you and yours !

    2. Dear DoForLuv,
      Your comment was so heartbreaking to read
      Can you consult with Mr Tudor?

      You DO matter beautiful one
      It’s time to …. DoForMe …… stuff everyone else !!!
      You can do this
      Hugs to you precious
      Luv Bubbles Xx 😘

      1. Awwhh This had me in tears Bubbles , I will consult with HG asap again It just been chaos .

        DoForMe Sounds very good to me i’ll write this on a piece off paper and read it everyday .

        Thank you so much ! ❤️🤗Lotsss of love to you

    3. Doforlove
      You do matter you just don’t realize that yet because you have spent too much time around people telling you that you don’t. Please don’t believe what you have taught to think or feel. Deep down there is a power inside of you that you are unaware of. There is a person inside struggling to break out and be free. Going no contact is the key. Once you are away, once you get used to the calmness, once you purge yourself of the darkness you thought to be normal; you will grow and feel in ways you never thought possible. What seems to be ” normal and right” in terms of personal relationships will in time seem unnatural and uncomfortable. Eventually you will only be able to tolerate healthy relations, but it takes time. As for guilt, you didn’t disappoint those in your life that brought you to this point, they disappointed you. You are disappointing yourself.Be strong. You are better than this…You just don’t realize it yet.

      1. Star ! You are so right!! Your perspective on this helps me alot and gives me understanding and self love in one . I believe you had to learn this as well . And i’am so thankfull you took the time to tell me this very appreciated . Lots of love and light to you ❤️

    4. @lori yes I agree with you ! Reading HGs work and professional nearby is wise .. thank you so much for the advice . Love and light to you

    5. Dear lovely DoForLuv,
      I hope they were tears of happiness …I’m glad you liked DoForMe … gotta think positive …. we are all winners here !

      No one and I mean no one is worth giving their life away for .. NO ONE!
      Baby steps precious and you are very precious

      You are special and don’t you forget it …. now work on believing it,
      we are all here for you
      💜💜💜💜
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  13. Hi HG, its my first time posting here but I’ve been I read your articles everyday for months now to reaffirm that the piece of scum I was involved with is a narcissist. Not sure what level as he is pretty stupid and has dumb illusions of winning lottery and getting rich on online poker sites. lmao!! I would initially think he is a lesser but he displays more the lower mid range traits than any other. I realized his behavior was extremely abnormal with all his game playing and silent treatments so I started googlng, “why am I the one to always initiate messages?” and finally ended up here and able to realize what he was finally! Thank you for your helping so many of us to open our eyes to what we did not want to see.

    I escaped the jerk twice! This last time it is for good as now I know what he is thanks to you. First time it took him 10 months to give me a pretty good Grand Hoover and not knowing what he was it worked only to have him shelve me pretty quickly once again. I guess I was a DLS and or IPSS at times. This time I escaped after tricking him to think I was going to send him one of my very expensive guitars. LOL still laughing over that. I wanted to double whammy him when I left!

    I think I got a small scale hoover when he realized I had blocked him on FB after him going silent for two weeks on me once again. He immediately texted me as if everything was normal with his same lame excuses on being so busy, back hurting, having to scrounge enough money for food, bla bla bla!! He is such a loser! HG was this a prevenative hoover or a lame grand hoover?

      1. Thanks HG I appreciate your answering, It’s not easy figuring this all out but I’m getting there!

  14. I imagine the typed of Hoover’s used depend on the status we held. In my case as DLS and my surprise escape I received only 3rd party Hoover’s. His other DLS who had spent far longer with him and was invested in more received a flurry of calls, different manipulation tactics etc. Also he was tipped off.

  15. If a narcissist is exposed (mid ranger) – and all friends and community know as it was in local newspapers, what then? He managed to keep his career (amazing) and has hooked up with a wealthy woman. Do they finally stop? Marry the woman? Or continue with the cheating etc?

    1. The exposure wounds but the effect fades over time. It might in some cases force the narcissist to move to new hunting grounds, but in the instance described he has not needed to owing to the retention of career and a fresh victim. The behaviour will continue.

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