Poll : How Did the Formal Relationship With the Narcissist End?
How did the formal relationship with the narcissist end? Whether it was a romantic, social, work, business or familial entanglement what brought about its conclusion? Did you tell the narcissist friend you no longer wanted to be friends? Perhaps the narcissist said nothing to you at all and you learned he or she was parading a new partner around town? Maybe that narcissist relative stopped communicating with you and never replied to your calls or messages? Perhaps you imposed a total no contact on that narcissist colleague and moved jobs? Whatever it might have been and no matter how many times it occurred, select the relevant circumstances from the list below and as ever do expand on the circumstances and your thoughts in the comments section.
Thank you for participating.
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Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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This might not be so popular, but it works:
Fast track to a cure: get on your knees and say a prayer- two words- help me or cure me. Even if you’re not feeling it, do it. I’ve had amazing results from this, even when I felt nothing, barren, no connection, it still works.
Your demons are deceiving you into thinking you’re in control when they’re actually narcing you.
When I received notification of this poll, I thought to myself- I haven’t got a clue!
I looked through the options, and decided not to participate as I really did not know for sure.
I also avoided reading the comments on the poll in full, just dipping in and out, as I knew I would be reading people’s pain, of which I have a proclivity to absorb and feel, and at this time I have felt a little emotionally raw to do this.
I have come to realise that I was avoiding it more so because I did not want to feel my pain again in relation to this topic.
The end ? I guess from the narcissist perspective there is no end. But what of my perspective?
I had withdrawn, before I slept with him, I had pulled back considerably and had made no communication with him for a month, he thought I was busy with a project for my registration. I guess he would not have considered that I knew who he was and was actively staying away.
He followed me out of the pub that night, I had avoided him all night. I had not intended for what eventually happened. I did not seek it. But I did make the decision to go to his home, ignoring my gut instincts of not feeling safe.
I followed my emotional mind, caught in a moment with him, he still had a power over me in person. It took An hour and a half to get there, he knew I was not really on board, and he worked hard to convince me stating in the end that he just wanted to spend time with me. I knew what it meant and I made the decision to go there in the knowledge that I would learn from it either way, the painful lessons for me have the greatest impact.
For me that night was at least the start of the end. I asked to meet him the next day to tell him that we could not be alone like that again, and the best we could hope for is pub mates.
A depiction of my delusions of a friendship that I still wanted with him, that we never had and never could have.
I could have ended it then, I could have unfriended him and blocked him etc. At this time I had not been reading the blog and do not know what I know now. I was also still attached to him, I had put him in my heart. I did not make that final cut, and if I’m honest I’m not sure when I might have done so. I knew full well that remaining in his world even just through social media was having a pernicious affect on me, but I remained linked to him.. feeling it all but not communicating that to him.
Two months of me not responding to bait, and contacting him just once re – a gig, he made the cut. He unfriended me at the end of the Christmas week, the day after I posted a song which I loved at the time but he may have seen as message. ( although not my intent).
He did not block me, just unfriended me.
Was it a prod to get me to react and make contact?
Was it him telling me he was done?
Was it an impulsive reaction to a thought that I might cut him off? To reject me before I could reject him- to be in control of this?
It could be any of these things for him and potentially more, I have learnt that it really is just whatever suits the narcissist at that point in time. For me it was the end, I needed it but damn it was painful.
This rejection of anything we may of had, and of me, this clear signal or my unimportance to him- hurt a great deal. But my value for myself and my stubbornness fought against any and all thoughts to react and contact him. So he received no response to this action.
I took a month out of social media and I blocked him when I came back on it , following consultation with HG.
I have always fluctuated with my resolve and thoughts of him, but it has improved with every month that has passed.
Now that I have read all of the comments on the poll, I can see and feel that of course there is a lot of pain. But there is also compassion, support, humour, reality checks, concern, and above all care for one another.
I value all who contribute to the blog, i read, I digest, I learn, I feel, I have grown.
Thank you, your all amazing human beans. X
Quasi, ❤️ (I figured out special characters just for you)
Oh my… that is quite something, thank you lovely SMH.. ❤️X
Quasi,
“I had withdrawn, before I slept with him, I had pulled back considerably and had made no communication with him for a month…”
I think this is important to note, that you had started to emotionally distanced yourself to begin with.
In my case, I found that because I did the same – and it was while still effectively in the formal relationship – I had a head start in getting my ET under control. I couldn’t physically leave but *emotionally* I already had one foot out the door. I found that in my situation that this sense of indifference that was settling over me only served to exacerbate his behaviours (specifically negative ones) which in turn, gave me the impetus to actually physically leave.
I’m sorry that he managed to draw you back in…and then demonstrate his true colours. (I’ve previously expressed myself with regard to your story.)
Even, when we are emotionally done with them, they are masterful at finding ways to cause us to engage them – for good or for ill – and go against our “gut instincts” as you said.
Thank you WhoCares,
I think it’s so much better if you can realise and work out what is going on before the “end”, it definitely supports control of ET, as you have more rational / logical evidence to tell ET to pipe down. ( Although I did use my emotional experience to evidence this also which strengthened the ability to tell ET to pipe down! )
Emotionally having one foot out the door and your indifference to him developing to help with illuminating the negative behaviours was probably the best thing in the situation. To plan an exit so you are in control..
I feel so desperately saddened for people who were an ipps and had no realisation until a sudden and brutal end, I can only imagine how shattering this is to the heart and soul. I know that kind of relationship would have devastated me and I certainly would not be as I am now.
WhoCares I can totally see that you having this knowing while still in the formal relationship was a good thing and I’m so glad to hear that you used it to prepare for the end and get out… I’m trying not to say – holler! whoop whoop, ah but I just did!
For me it was my rational mind that caused me to withdraw, I worked out who he was when his manipulations lead to the change in relationship and I knew that all of me did not want that type of relationship with him.. this time was tough and ET was looking for an excuse, but as I did not live with him, I was physically distant already. He was masterful at getting his way- in person more so, from a distant I had more chance for rational mind to rule… in person he got me! And got a massive level of proximate positive fuel! He looked like a kid at Christmas that night, and totally clueless to how I felt.. Thank you for your previous expressions on this, I will always remember that as our first conversation and the compassion you showed me- never forgotten WhoCares ❤️.
This time out of direct communication did really help me with ET, as did the two months after that night and before the formal end of the relationship.
The depth that I feel things still staggers me, and it’s something that my friends won’t understand,
They call me a sap and love that I’m there for them. But none could understand why I let him so deep into my heart, why I cared so much for him. I think only you guys would understand how and why the narcissist had such an impact on us.
Empaths and narcissists will always be drawn to one another- but knowledge is powerful, and our instincts and super senses give us a power if we listen to them.
As always thank you WhoCares I value our conversations, very much so.
Qx
Quasi,
Yes, managing to work them while still in situ helps…planning? Well, I wish I had planned better in other ways (financially and such) once I chose not to be emotionally invested anymore I had already sunk too much of my personal resources into attempting to remedy things – the only other saving grace is that I had managed to create a place for myself within the nearby community (happened organically; just me being me).
In doing this, I had inadvertently done some proactive damage control in this area and it’s pretty hard to smear someone when that person has a community presence and the person doing the smearing has zilch. So I can whoop ‘n’ holler about that (because a successful smear campaign would have been more devastating to me than any sort of financial detriment – you can always, somehow, find more funds but a reputation? Harder to come by.)
I can understand your relief at only being an “ipss” – but it doesn’t change the fact that nobody comes out of narcissist entanglement unscathed. I’m certainly happy that you’re on ‘this side’ of your entanglement now and around to share your reflections and insights; as you are a pretty sharp cookie.
WhoCares,
You did the best you could in a horrific situation, finances do come and go, strength can fluctuate, but you removed yourself from a toxic situation without a secure situation to go to. This takes courage and a leap of faith! This took a level of faith and value in yourself and your worth.! Never devalue what it took for you to leave that situation, it is fundamental to who you are.
You had managed to link to a community because of who you are, your nature and your care, this community clearly saw the good and truth in you, so no smearing would work in that.
When you look back there will always be the “I could have done that differently or better”, or “I should have done that” – that is relflection and hindsight at it best! But the reality and facts were –
– You identified the relationship was toxic
– You identified that all of you did not wholeheartedly want this relationship or feel it was good for you
– You identified that your feelings for the narcissist has changed
– You identified a community of people who could support you, even if this was not the main initial reason for engaging with them.- your gut instincts probably guided you there, maybe it just felt right, maybe you felt safe with them..
– You identified that you could do it
– You escaped with all you every really need – you!
You are right every entanglement with a narcissist leaves a mark, a wound the depth of which is wholly dependent on the individual and the relationship.
It is always relative and individually felt, I have a high sensitivity- more so when I knew him, so mine left a deep wound much of which was my own making by continuing to pursue a friendship with someone that my gut and head knew could not be my friend, taking ownership of this and being honest with myself has been fundamental in my healing.
Knowing him has lead to me evolving into the person I should and could be, accepting all of myself the dark and the light.
Your courage , rational mind and emotional mind lead your path to escape – with what is left of your journey they can be utilised to keep moving forward.
I Obviously need to do a dedicated prince track for you now WhoCares as you too have awesome taste – not one for dancing just one for knowing!
Qx
https://youtu.be/R5KJaEAzezI
Quasi,
I meant to get back to your other post(s)…but I think I’m at least a post or two behind…I’m still playing catch up, as my narc has (reliably) given me more material to cover and document in further preparation for an upcoming engagement with him (So I’ve just been popping in for quickie comments and such.)
I wanted to say: yours is a very steadying, caring voice that, at the same time, is also very affirming and empowering.
Thank-you for your thoughtful responses; your words always give me something to reflect on – it is much appreciated.
Thank-you very much for the Prince song – definitely not a party tune but I enjoyed the lyrics, especially this:
“Money don’t matter to night
It sure didn’t matter yesterday
Just when you think you’ve got more than enough
That’s when it all up and flies away
That’s when you find out that you’re better off
Makin’ sure your soul’s alright”
I’ve learned a lot about my relationship to money and ‘things’ – thanks in part to my narc(s). Some of what I learned was detrimental; some of it was very freeing. I’m still working through that part.
WhoCares,
It’s a journey, if your still working through it you are still moving ..
I’m glad you liked the song, sometimes it’s more about the meaning.
Saying that I think it’s time to dance WhoCares!
https://youtu.be/4QLYXPto0w4
This is one of my favourites by a British artist who I adore…
it is a dance track which is essentially a us against it – just pretend he is singing to you…
Especially where he says-
“And we’re driving – over, fears that make us feel like we’re not enough.
Yeah we’re flying high – closer, dancing on the edge of the world above..”
Turn it up dance and know that the narcissist will never make you feel like he used to again, you can numb him out – you know his ways – you are rising above !
Qx
*Footnote.
WhoCares- this is not a love bomb….. I repeat…… this is not a love bomb. 😂
Lol, Quasi –
I promise not to hold any love bombing (or monologue-ish posts) against you, as long as you don’t hold my super-belated-follow-up replies against me.
Xo,
WC
Awesome.. xx
Quasi, thank you so much for sharing your story. I was captivated by the authenticity of feeling and experience you have shared at each stage in your journey. I am so glad you overcame emotional thinking and let your integrity and protective, rational thinking lead you to a safer path in life. I hear you. I relate. I feel it. It wasn’t easy. You are amazing. Thank you 💕
Thank you Sarah,
Thank you for your words and the meaning I felt reading them.
That was very kind of you to express.
I have pretty much shared all of myself here and have found this cathartic. I do use my emotional mind alongside my rational mind with most things now, but I needed to get my rational mind at the helm at that point in time to ensure I did not contact him.
My emotional mind still processed how I felt in this time- I just did not communicate this to him. I still needed to feel and express it in other ways.
I wish you all the best in your journey Sarah, reading your post was was moving and I felt it.
It clearly demonstrated the use of intuition and gut feelings over emotion. You knew what you needed to do without knowing what he was really, that is another level of knowing and fortitude.
Your children are incredibly lucky, and I have no doubt that they know what love is, and won’t be afraid to venture into the world- they have been raised to know there is good and bad, light and dark. You are also amazing Sarah .. take care, we are here and have your back x
Thank you, thank you Quasi. It is through sharing and reading the experiences of others here that I can make peace with what I know and what I feel…..the ever delicate balance between head and heart. I have connected instantly with your story and I am so grateful for the opportunity to tell you how much. “We have your back” felt awesome.
Thankyou xx
You’re welcome lovely xx
Dear Mr Tudor, I’ve learned a lot, not only about narcissism, but even about myself. I concur that narcissism can’t be cured, unless, like with anything, you’re willing. I hope you can view therapy as something more than a game to challenge. There’s a whole other world you’re missing out on that’s worth exploring, at least sneaking a peak at. Even making love, not just to a body, but to someone’s soul is beautiful and powerful. I don’t know if interacting on this site ever gives you pause before you hurt someone else, or if our feedback makes you sharper and stronger, but you’ve armored us, and we will defeat. We’re not weak. Love is what makes the world go round. Certainly what makes a construct exist, after all. But you are the master, and I bow to you. The only other thing I wonder now is, so what is your favorite color? I know it’s one that compliments you best. 😊
Kelly, Yes! A whole other world. So frustrating when you want someone to see that other world, which is beautiful and fascinating, but they cannot see it. Color question is apt in that respect because I always thought that explaining that whole other world to a narc was like describing colors to someone who is color-blind!
Thank you SMH!
I think I “out-hoovered” him or just became unsatisfactory supply. I refused to let him move in. I refused to have sex with him. He was unemployed and the State of Penn was paying for him to take Cisco classes. I put him on hold until he got back on his feet. He was staying with his Mom and his 22 year old son in a small apartment. He wanted out, but had no money. In May, he still “loved” me and missed me and said, “just say the word and I’ll pack my bags”. He got engaged last month and plans on getting married really soon.
I think once I wasn’t falling for all the lines, he started looking for a gal that would let him move right in. And he did. She’s in for a nightmare. He is the king of love bombing.
Survivor of a Narcissist – Welldone for setting and reaffirming your boundaries with N. I find it so sad there are so many people who are drawn into the chaos believing they have the only resolve. We cannot hang our hard hats on pretty words. I am so grateful you have made it to the other side!
Clarece, I appreciate you pointing out that I am very lucky to have a normal healthy and loving husband. Yes, you are correct. I truly am. The reason I am here asking my question is because I am still very much struggling with getting over the strong feelings I had for the narc both as a friend and lover. He came into my life when I was going through some hard and very stressful times. He presented it as he has been going through some hard times too, so we appeared to have bonded over it and have been supporting each other emotionally. Well, I bonded and came to care for him and love him not knowing what he was and that this meant nothing to him. To be honest, I started suspecting he was a narc at some point but I was way too deep at that time and I fell into denial. My suspicions proved correct. Anyway, I am still struggling with how to get over the whole thing and put it behind me. I do feel significantly better but not over it by any means. I read it takes about 2-3 years to heal from this kind of relationship so I am looking forward to getting there. But Clarece, I can pose the same question to you. Last year in your letter to the narc HG published you said how done you were with the narc and that you blocked him everywhere. Then he somehow got through in Feb and invited you to meet up and then you said you went complete NC and blocked him everywhere again. Then he sent you a supposedly misdirected text and a butt dial. How did he get through again? Not to offend you but this does not look like he is blocked or has been and that you are done. You have been on here since 2015 but yet have not moved on after all this time when you know there’s no future with the narc because you would want to be his primary while he does not want you to be his primary. So when you are asking me why I am here instead of enjoying my life with my husband, I am asking you why are you here and have been for so long. As it is hard for you to move on and heal so it is for me. Next, I already responded to SMH’ s reference to strawberry ice cream. It illustrates the concept of stale fuel and does not apply to secondary sources whether intimate or non-intimate. It only applies to IPPS. Just because you have always interpreted it that narcs want positive fuel from family, friends, and colleagues only does not make it true or accurate. HG repeatedly states that a particular dynamic has to be kept in mind as different rules apply. Context matters. Before applying a particular principle or rule, it must be ascertained whether it even applies or is relevant. Please read The Golden Period, Faces of Devaluation, and Why does the narcissist blow hot and cold? to name a few and you will see that when it comes to secondary sources painted white, narcs want positive fuel which does not become stale (so strawberry ice cream does apply) and devaluation of intimate and non-intimate sources happen when they do not provide any fuel, challenge the narc, or wound him. I think all of us should first consult writings by HG to make sure we fully understand how things work before assuming anything and propagating erroneous interpretations. An opinion is not worth much. An informed opinion has value. Yes, sex does complicate things but not in a way you stated. HG said when a source is or has been intimate, there is a greater risk of wounding the narc or challenging him because the expectations are greater and also the risk narc and the source may want different things. Nowhere did he ever say narcs prefer or want negative fuel from intimate or non-intimate secondary sources (he said they would take it but prefer positive) and nowhere did he say that the fuel of secondary sources both intimate and non-intimate becomes stale or as you say vanilla or strawberry. In fact he stated the opposite. Wishing you the very best!
Hi IL,
The best example of an ongoing saga clearly showing a relationship both full of positive and negative fuel for an IPSS that will make an easy and quick point of reference for you is FOTS and Piano Man. He is married, she is not. And thank God she does challenge him and tell him off at times even if it’s negative fuel. He deserves it.
I also was a secondary source and HG nicknamed me SuperTanker for awhile because of the negative fuel I doled out. I will be more direct this time. I do not think I’m perceiving HG’s material incorrectly at all. A Narc will grow bored with any fuel source in an intimate relationship. As long as secondary sources such as family, friends, co-workers keep giving the positive fuel only, they can stick around forever because they’re great for the facade and being lieutenants or flying monkeys.
As far as me personally, I’ve had JN blocked from all social media all year. I had deleted him as a contact on New Years so I could no longer pull his # up and be tempted to text. When he messaged in Feb and after our exchange I blocked his number through Verizon. Those last 90 days. When it expired it was when I was on vacation in Disney and then getting back to work and it dropped on my radar to redo. After the exchange in June I blocked again.
As far as being here, maybe you don’t see my comments on other threads, where I am very transparent about feeling stuck in my healing and moving past things. In fact, I just shared with another reader in the last 24 hours about how uncomfortable dating is as she asked if anyone else finds it difficult. I’m also invested and interested in HG’s journey and where things will go for him. Again, always put my feelings right out there.
So yeah, after reading what you wrote to SMH, which I found to be an over the top harsh reaction to her comments, I’m not interested in pursuing this conversation further.
Insatiable Learner, I haven’t looked at what you wrote to me yet if there is anything new, but just reading this to Clarece makes me think (no, see) that you are very passive aggressive and probably an MRN yourself. That might be what you are struggling with. HG will be able to tell you.
Apparently HG is giving me the silent treatment.
Me too.🙁
Kelly, why do u say that
Oh, I don’t know, there was some glitch that my posts below disappeared for a moment. I was getting annoying pop ups for some reason, maybe they interfered? But I thought HG got mad at me for my posts on 5 Facts The Greater Narcissist, and wasn’t allowing me to post. Comments below reappeared as soon as I posted the regrettable one above.
*The narcissist had someone else tell me.
A long story. That was painful.
Mandy K.
I am so sorry to hear that, I feel your pain. Courage to show up is a commitment and Ns seem to be missing that gene. You are worthy of so much more💔
Happy birthday Windstorm and Clarece!
Thank you, Lou!! ❤️
Thank you for the birthday wishes Lou! You’re very sweet!
Hey Clarece, is it your birthday too?
Well, Happy Birthday 🎂🎉🎈🎁🍹
Thanks Idanoe! It is. WS and I figured out last year we are both on Sept 2nd. Very nice of you!
Happy Birthday Clarece
🍰🎂🥂😊
Thank you Debbie!! 😘
You are very welcome Clarece.
The best is still yet to be. Not a platitude.
Try not to lose heart. it’s difficult not to.
Just keep going..good things will find you. everything goes in cycles…xx
change is inevitable nothing stays the same for the good or the bad.
I know it’s true.
Debbie and Clarece, I agree with you about the cycles, Debbie. I also think it’s helpful to stop thinking of what we are looking for as love and start thinking of it as fun. Look for fun (lots of it here), have fun, laugh at stuff, laugh at yourself, talk to strangers. It all helps!
SMH
Haha..yes.. I am a bit of a joker a lot of the time particularly at work… I do have quite a deep thoughtful side but equally a crazy sense of humour… and always have fun that is always something I do for sure when I do mixed with people.. I’ve kind of shut myself away little bit outside of work coming to terms with some stuff.
Plus I’m pretty comfortable with strangers I can talk to anyone put them at ease.. I think it’s changing schools a lot when I was a kid as my parents moved around..
Hey.. I quite like strangers… it’s when you get to know them that there’s a problem!!! lol!!!😊😂🤣
Debbie, Mine did too, including to different countries, so I also changed schools a lot. It doesn’t help in adolescence but I think you are right that it does when you are older. And you are also right about getting to know strangers! The strangest stranger I ever met was MRN! And here I am! 🙂
SMH
Absolutely!! Great advice! If we look for fun, we will find it and life will be so much better!
All very true Debbie! I appreciate your kind words very much. I recently saw the new Christopher Robin movie with my daughter and some of her school friends. Our favorite line from the movie was Pooh saying, “Something always comes from nothing.” Lol
Clarece
You got to see Christopher Robin? Was it good? I really want to see that but NO ONE I know will see it with me – not even my grandchildren! I may end up having to just go by myself.
WS! Oh yes, beautifully written. Bring kleenex!
Clarece
That last sentence is spooking me off! In my thinking, any movie that requires Kleenex is one to be avoided! Just the term “tear-jerker” knots up my stomach!
Windstorm, I’m in need of a good cry. It’s so cathartic. I’m so used to stuffing it. I need something to prompt the dam to break. Maybe I’ll go see it alone and cry my eyes out for everything in privacy in the dark where nobody can judge!
MB
I like the occasional good cry, too, but I do mine at home alone with the dogs. My cathartic crying is more for myself.
WS, mine is for myself too, but I’m the only female in the house and they don’t “get” it. I have to watch sad movies alone or risk misunderstanding.
MB
When I lived with mine they never got it either. I went outside on the porch or in the woods to cry. I’m sure they just attributed it to, “Well, we know Mom’s IS crazy…”
WS, everybody that knows me knows I’m crazy. It’s a term of endearment!
MB
Me, too! At least I take it as an endearment – they might not mean it that way. 😄
Oh no Windstorm! In a sentimental way. Not crying buckets, but you may shed a tear. The storyline appeals to all ages. Don’t be spooked.
Hi clarece, happy belated birthday to you too lovely… I hope you had a great weekend. Qx
Clarece
Happy late Birthday, hope your day was filled with laughter and joy! 🎂
Clarece
Happy Birthday!!!
Thanks so much K!
My pleasure Clarece!
Happy birthday, ladies! To your happiest year yet… 🥂
Thank you Getting There!
Happy birthday windstorm and clarece!! 🤗
I am so late to this party. Sorry I wasn’t following this thread.
Happy Super-belated Birthday windstorm & Clarece!!! 🎂🎉🎁❤
Valkyrie
Thank you! It’s never too late for good wishes!
Happy Birthday to everyone out there – whenever your birth day actually falls! 🎉❤️
I work with mine- so I still see him. Understanding he’s a narcissist changes everything. I just don’t worry about him anymore, I don’t keep an eye on his antics or get after him about them, or accuse him of things, I don’t have to ‘babysit’ anymore. It’s wonderful! I know now there’s a reason why he does those things- it’s fuel. He’s a textbook description of a greater narc.
I have closure knowing this. I mean this positively-he seems weaker to me, and I feel full of confidence. If I see him, I see him, if I don’t, I don’t, I’m not obsessed with him anymore. I think of him less now, narcissism has become a fascinating topic though, but it’s like any “relationship”, your thoughts and you move on. I’m happy knowing what I’ve learned.
HG, has writing on this site and posting comments here changed you any?
I should mention, over the past 8 years, I’ve been through smear campaigns, hovering, I left him & was then spied on thru surveillance cameras, Reunited with him, told him off & given Him a permanent freeze only to have him end up raging at me over it. I have definitely been his negative fuel line. And that was all before I knew what was wrong with him.
Knowing he’s a narcissist means I can handle it, even respect it, as a real condition. It’s not something I need to correct or interfere with & no amount of warning has ever gotten thru to his next victim. What’s important is that I can separate myself mentally from it now.
He’s being much nicer to me lately, maybe it’s a hoover so I don’t expose him or maybe he’s moving me to a new IP-NP-whatever it is position. No matter what, I’m just doing my job- being my best, and moving on mentally.
Slightly.
Hi SMH, thank you for your response. I remember the strawberry ice cream analogy but it was written about the IPPS. HG actually expressly wrote that narcs do not get tired of the fuel of secondary sources and the fuel of secondary sources does not become stale. Stale fuel illustrated by strawberry ice cream only applies to IPPS. I was never one. Not to brag, but I have an excellent memory, which is a gift and a curse because I will spot inconsistencies and contradictions with ease since I always remember what was said. Wishing you peace and healing.
Insatiable Learner,
Not such an excellent memory. The ice cream article is not specifically about IPPS or IPSS. It is also not the case that they only want positive fuel from IPSS. I was IPSS for a long time and I can be quite the challenge! Positive, negative – it’s all fuel.
People do get bored and move on even if you are perfect, whether they are narcs or not. Narcs have numerous IPSS’s that they rotate, and they are always acquiring new ones. It could be decades before you hear from yours. Do you really want to care for that long?
You seem to only want revenge rather than to hear from him – you want to hear from him in order to reject him back. Why do you want that when you say your life is perfect? Especially now? You say two years have passed and you still want revenge?
I also wanted revenge even though I escaped, but I did it quickly. I did not want to be thinking about it six months later.
I think you are just upset at being rejected. It sounds like a regular old affair to me and he now has a family. Are you sure he is even a narc?
Take the rejection as a gift and go enjoy your holiday with your husband. Clarece is right. Look at what you have and not at what you do not have.
SMH, I find your response angry, bitter, arrogant, and condescending. HG confirmed the guy was a narc. Who do you think you are that you believe you can tell me what to do and not to do? Your arrogance has been coming through in many of your posts including you touting about what an advanced degree you have (I do too so what) and how you rejected the narc who keeps hoovering you. You know nothing about my story and situation and think you are an authority to provide ignorant comments. Read The Golden Period and Faces of Devaluation and you will see that narcs do not find the fuel of secondary sources stale. It says in the Golden Period expressly. Go back there and read. Use your advanced degree. I can see you can be quite a challenge, namely an arrogant prick. I wonder if you are the narcissist instead of the poor guy running after you whom you twisted in knots. That will certainly explain things. I find no value in your ignorant, arrogant, and condescending opinion. There is no empathy or compassion coming from you at all, just self-righteousness and self-aggrandizement.
Insatiable Learner, I find your responses funny :-). Yes I can be quite the arrogant prick (though I thought prick applied to males – I am an arrogant cunt, thank you very much) but I am not passive aggressive, thank god. Anyway, this conversation, such as it is, is over. Go chill out with some strawberry ice scream.
Ah. Its rough some days being perfect.
innit
Bahahahaha the perfect levity to that discussion.
One final comment, SMH, I did not talk about revenge. I said I wanted to tell him what a scumbag he was because of the way he treated me. I could have done my revenge before if I wanted too. I did not and do not want revenge. I never said it anywhere. You again in your usual arrogant and condescending manner decided to attached an incorrect label to what I said. Who do you think you are? I remember the kind of “revenge” you carried out on the guy you called a narc by luring him in under false pretenses and then cornering him into deleting emails in front of you. How childish and immature. Nice performance. Very manipulative too. This is exactly the kind of thing a narc would do. By the way, yes, I am married to a good man who treats me like gold. Last time I checked you were single and going out on dates. With your attitude, it will be a while before you find someone decent.
Gotta fight fire with fire, IL. I didn’t call him in under false pretenses. I just did not tell him what I wanted. That’s different!!! In any case, you have been following my story quite closely for someone who has no respect for me and isn’t interested in what I have to say. I am done with yours. It’s boring.
SMH, agreed on the observations with regard to all fuel from any source can get stale. I’ve interpreted HG’s writings to mean secondary sources can have elongated golden periods because their interactions can be spaced apart and intermittent, but most definitely if intimate, same rules apply.
Seriously, if you have a loving, doting husband to have a second lease on life with, why on earth would anyone still be ruminating about a failed affair?
Clarece, It also depends on the type of narc and the type of empath, right? HG has written that if an MRN gets involved with an SE, the MRN will struggle. That is what I think happened with me. I was on my best behavior for a long time but then blew up post escape, and that was the worst time.
I agree about the doting husband stuff but of course IL knows this and now thinks I am a narc, just as I think she is a narc. LOL. I probably am partly, if I am an SE.
HG, what is the difference between a Narc and a crappy, toxic person? If the population of “true” NPDs is only 10% or less, and narcs rarely get diagnosed, then some of us commenting here might just be dealing with crappies. I guess if I could just accept that I do not have to tolerate any relationship that diminishes me, narc or not, that answer would not matter. But, for some reason I am still needing to prove myself and validate my experience. If best suited to answer in an email consult let me know. I have emails I wanted “interpreted” but they are 3 years old. I already got a confirmation from your narc detector consult, and yet I still bear this burden. My mother died last year and I have been complete NC for one year. So It seems like I am just rehashing shit that is over. I thought about a phone call (or hundreds of them) but whenever I really delve into the story I am reduced to the less than ideal emotional state of guilt and despair. When commenting, I am better able to use my logic muscle.
The percentage is higher than 10%. An email consultation would be the appropriate venue to address your own needs to prove and validate.
Thank you.
I forced him out (it was my house and he had little choice in the matter). When he started threatening, I went to the police, installed an alarm system, and had patrols watching the house. My divorce was fast-tracked because of his behaviour, but I also paid him in order to expedite matters.
Narcissistic friends and acquaintances of mine just disappeared and never responded to my attempts at contact. This happened after I said no to something they wanted me to do for them.
As for narcissistic men who wanted to ensnare me, my family of origin and in-laws, I imposed NC and did not communicate at all. Also, I have been ignoring all their (benign) hoovers.
HG, I have to ask you if I may. Clarece talks about a reliable and compliant fuel source being too vanilla for the narc. Is there any validity to this with respect to secondary sources painted white? Based on your writings, I thought this is exactly what narcs want and in fact devalue and disengage from non-compliant secondary sources who challenge the narc. Thank you!
The IPPS will always fall foul of their fuel being stale or not enough and/or not frequent enough, thus an entirely compliant IPPS is desired until such time as that compliance becomes stale.
The IPSS is far less likely to fall foul in that regard because there is not the same level of interaction between narcissist and IPSS, through the shelving that occurs. Thus their compliance remains attractive.
Hi IdaNoe, I am very sorry about your situation with your mom. I can relate. To answer your question, yes, I want him to contact me so I could tear him apart. He will not expect that. That will be my closure.
The results of this poll really surprised me. Judging from the majority of the comments on this blog one may think that such is not the case. I do not really know though how representative are these from the total.
The concept of No Contact for me implies much more than just that( not communicating with the narcissist).
Real, robust No Contact for me is extended to also:
-not sneaking on the ex’s social profiles trying to find out what he/she is doing. This is for me an indirect way of breaching no contact.
-not leaving open channels for being hoovered. Leaving any channel open to be hoovered is for me an indirect way of breaching no contact.
So was it really ,really No Contact?
Valid observations, many people think they have gone no contact but they have not and they continue to embrace one or more of the Five Fingers of Engagement.
Hopefully most have only the middle finger still engaged and will quickly proceed to the fist of no contact with the information you provide.
Entertained me.
NA “the fist of no contact”. Love your humor!
Thank you HG.
It takes time to understand it but the only way of reaching that point is by implementing it.
Quoting your own words:
“No contact is not just avoiding physical contact with our kind. It is shutting down the Five Fingers of Engagement, namely
Not spending time with us in person;
Not talking to us, be it by phone, Skype, text message or smoke signal
Not doing things for us
Not talking about us to others; and
Not thinking about us
A complete and successful no contact embraces all of these five elements. It is not easy.”
https://narcsite.com/2018/08/16/poll-what-are-the-hardest-parts-of-trying-to-implement-no-contact/
SuperXena,
You are right (again!). I have not looked at his IG profile (or IPPS’s or any of his kids’) for months. I briefly flipped through FB last night but I can’t see much of anything. I did see a pic that I have seen before and it didn’t affect me. In any case, I don’t dare look closely at anything. Part of me looks at him and sees a psycho jerk and a nerd. Part of me looks and sees the guy I fell hard for. Of course he is both but I am trying to keep psycho nerd in my head.
I have one open channel (email) but neither of us has used it. I don’t know if he has his email anymore anyway. But there will always be open channels. For instance, my work email is public and I cannot do anything about that, then there is LinkedIn, where he has stalked me but not contacted me. I did lock down FB, however and he does not have my phone numbers anymore unless he wrote mine down somewhere after he switched his when he moved. In any case, he did not add me back to WA, where we were connected but only briefly.
I did not check off that NC box. I am pretty aware that for me it is more of a fade out than a lock out.
I realized recently that our relationship started and ended with phone numbers. He would not give me his or take mine when we first met because he said he had a stalker (ha). We didn’t really need them – just used email on phones. But eventually I asked for his again and he gave it to me. I dumped him for good shortly after that. Maybe I was just in it to win it!
Hope you are well. Abrazos!
Hi SMH,
Thank you(again!). I can see you are working hard here.
Any advancement towards that direction is good.
“I am pretty aware that for me it is more of a fade out than a lock out.”
If that works for you I suppose it’s good.
I preferred the drastic lock out when I reached that point. There was no other way for me other than exclude him entirely from my world. No “in betweens”. Any other way “in between “ was not a real decision, not an effective one, it was weak, not firm, it was deceiving myself.
It was either in or out.It was out.
My mother ( who was a surgeon) told me when I had my first broken heart :
“ this requires a complete heart surgery”….so this time it required one as well. Complete hear surgery.
Abrazos
just adding SMH: if my ex had deceived me, what would have been left of me by continuing the deception deceiving myself by not excluding him completely
from my life?Escaping and “heart surgery” as said was the only option for me. Nothing in between.
Take care!
SuperXena,
You are a very strong person for doing heart surgery. I don’t think most people are that strong. I saw in the comments that you want yours dead. I hope you get your wish but aren’t involved in making it come true! I once had a guy who was fucking with me end up in jail. He was as good as dead to me then. It was quite the relief. Suddenly my head was completely clear.
I don’t need MRN dead because I know I did not go through anything as harrowing as many of the people here. I never trusted him after a few weeks. I knew he was lying about his name and knew that I knew he was lying. At times, it was a big game and I tried not to get too involved. It wasn’t easy to let go (over and over) but I think that’s again partly because I like winning. I feel now that we are at a ‘Mexican standoff’ :-). I’m just trying not to be the one who blinks first! (Mixing my cliches or metaphors there or something!)
Abrazos
SMH,
I do not need for that to happen. But to be honest, it wouldn’t hurt if it does ( if it is the only way for these “innocuous” sporadic proxy hoovers to stop once and for all).
I have to confess though that a very long time ago I really felt like wanting to chop his head off with a Shinsakutō.
Those feelings faded away with time. I do not have those feelings anymore.
Cuídate y abrazo.
Jejeje. Glad you did not chop his head off and are not feeling that way anymore. Abrazos.
SMH,
Eventually ,I did! Not literally of course…
Abrazos
*SMH,
I do not exactly what defines a person being “strong”. I just wanted to add that it was not something that happened just like that , from one day to the other.
I really had to work a lot and for a long time to reach that point and I am still working on it.
SuperXena, I know how long it has taken in my case and I did not even go through that much. I can imagine how long it has taken for you. With Lesser, it took me a few years to break free. I did the same as with MRN, leave and go back, leave and go back. The difference was that he could not contain his anger and I was married to him. I don’t think about him anymore. He doesn’t matter to me at all and when he contacts me, I can easily squish him :-). He’s not much of a challenge. His first wife wished him dead, as she once told me, but I couldn’t care less.
SMH,
By the way, I do not see “degrees” of abuse( one person being “more “abused than another). The deception ,its impact and aftermath is equally intense regardless . The only difference I can see is perhaps being the extension of the abuse ,the repeated abuse and if it happened as well during childhood .
Abuse is abuse.
SuperXena, I agree. Deception is the abuse, unless we are talking about childhood (mine was mostly fine). I still cannot believe MRN lied to me and it was years ago now! And maybe there are lies that I don’t know about. Abrazos.
Just adding, SuperXena, that while I don’t wish MRN dead, I wouldn’t mind if he ended up in jail too 🙂
NA
Love the “fist of no contact” Ha! I also thought of the middle finger when I read the comments. When I think of my N, that finger waves at him in splendid isolation of the other digits.
There are family grudges and silences, which I don’t want to be involved in. I don’t hold grudges because it takes too much repressed energy —I know how much they obsess. It’s pitiable that their self-esteem can’t take any accountability—meaning, they’re obsessed with (external) shame through anger and feel no (inner) guilt for their actions.
What changes things for me, are my own feelings. Essentially, you’re no longer being tricked. You stop being a lover, friend, family member, and start being a kind of witness more abstract, distanced feelings.
Once i saw them for who they were beyond my projections of empathic-need for meaningful, mature, intimate connection—the upsetting biological-emotional phenomenon of ‘infatuation without closure’—ended completely. I felt a lot less anxious, but definately sad for my pain, wasted energy, and for the fact that their reality is very tragic aka developmentally stunted. Such a person cannot possibly give me anything I need. Once the ‘false premise’ for the arena of conflict was gone, it felt flat and boring.
The potential power of the victim is being able to free yourself from the very construct than an abuser cannot be free of. But it’s not a happy or victorious feeling, although I appreciate now the ‘value of happiness’ more than I did before. It just is what it is; no more romantic ideation, no more struggle to make sense or right, just the bleak aftermath of a car crash.
The terrifying father, the abusive boyfriend, the jealous-hostile sibling or friend, become infants who need others more than we need them but spend their lives denying they need anyone and all the silly, miserable power games that entails.
Another great, helpful comment, iroll.
Inspiring.
/IROLL, So eloquently written is your unveiling of understanding and acceptance.
Holy cow what an excellent analogy!
Hi /iroll. I can relate to this. For me it’s the cast of characters you mention (narc, flying monkeys,etc) who are on stage trying to draw you in; meanwhile I’m walking outside past the theatre thinking ‘oh no, I’ve seen that play, starred in it, they can keep the face paint, costumes and false identity’ .. real life beckons… Stay strong.
Iroll, love your comment. Very well thought out and so many of us can relate.
Thanks guys, just to be clear: I haven’t stopped caring about those I used to care about, I just recognise that their behaviour is abusive, troubled and can’t be helped by relationships alone.
I don’t feel a loss of empowerment anymore.
The nature of the condition is: they have a broken self-mirror and live in their own realities.
For example, my ex-narcy told me that women would always ask him if he loved them, and he would “avoid the question”. He was bragging to me of course, at the same time as it being true, that is his pattern. He doesn’t have girlfriends but sexual conquests and is a fb predator (ugh). Later on the same day, he grabbed by neck and kept asking me “who do you love the most”. I didn’t answer, of course, because it’s a nonsense question.
He told me that when he gets attached he feels extremely jealous and hates that feeling, so that’s why he doesn’t have girlfriends. When we became too close his sexual issues came to the surface more, he can’t connect sex with intimacy, women are either mothers or playthings and for women to be both categories, is a kind of moral crime.
My interpretation is: they don’t feel so special when they’re not perfectly alone and exerting control by rejecting others anymore; they might need you, so you have power which they must compete with; they have to face their flaws; they get bored when they’re not feeding their superficial and immature egotism.
Isolating ones self in your own inner-fantasy world where you’re a god (or worthless!) all the time, is not a realistic mirror through which you can understand yourself and others better through. It’s a warped mirror. That’s the nature of the disorder.
@Iroll – your assessment of the sexual issues has helped me immeasurably. Finally, an explanation of what it could have been that makes sense! I also have a sneaking suspicion that there was some deviation – possibly profound homosexual masochism or pedophilia or both – that was going on under the surface but carefully hidden. Just glimpses and intuition. You would think these things would make me feel better about the lack of intimacy (yes, HG, I’ve read it !) because I cant be a sadomasochistic man or a little girl for him, but it still stings me in the self-esteem. Thank you.
The shit that comes out of people’s mouths….
Me: do you even hear yourself when you talk?
Nothing short of bizarre and yet I can act like it’s not happening, for a short period of time at least. I’m easy to talk to and put people at ease when I want to, maybe I should discourage sharing perspectives more
: P
I manage not to look startled most of the time.
LOL, nunya biz. I was so fascinated at some of the things that came out of his mouth that sometimes I think I stayed just to hear more of it.
Ha SMH, I relate to that too.
iroll, Hmm. Yes to the intimacy issue. My MRN definitely had a Madonna/whore complex, though he thought he was enlightened. Maybe I am reading you wrong, but while a woman being just a mother or a plaything is bad enough, both does not make it better or whole.
Women are fully developed humans who were not put on earth to serve a fully grown man in any capacity. As I told him, role play is one thing, real life is another. He did not get it because he could not get it. He had the emotional development of a toddler who only wanted mummy or playthings. Ewww.
His accusations became over the top bizarre. This was the final straw for me. While pretending to be otherwise busy I recorded him (unknowingly) making further similar accusations – while he paced in threatening manner.
He also didn’t know that when his pacing took him out of the room – I was secretly packing belongings.
We spent a few days in near silence. It mattered not. I had the recording – what to do with it, at that point, wasn’t my concern – it was enough to just have it because it was proof for me that I wasn’t the one losing my mind.
Then one day, without a word to me, he walked away dressed as if he wasn’t coming back for a while. I said nothing while I watched him leave.
When he was out of sight, I scrambled; packed a few more things and left.
I followed his footsteps in the snow (there was only one way out) until they disappeared; as he had got into a vehicle. Then I continued on.
I went to a place of safety. He texted later that day, saying he had picked up supplies…wondering where I was.
I had to let him back into my life for a time – for reasons of survival – but it was under scrutiny and on my terms.
When he abused those terms – and I pointed out that he had done so – he exploded in anger and violence.
Only, he didn’t know I was recording it, again.
He raged and then left. Once he walked out that door, it was never opened to him again.
I then, formally and through a third party, informed him that it was over. My only contact with him now is a result of the formal process we’re involved in.
I love that the majority in the poll went no contact! yes! we dumped you Mr narcs! B-) Smart Empaths
So they claim….
Correct; GOSO is the first part then NC is the second part.
hahaha… :'(
Our gardener (friend of N) knocked on the door one day and opened the vault for me to 4 years of deception, adultery and lies. My greatest fears were confirmed and there was no more face left for me to save. I am forever grateful for the courage and care he afforded me despite the fact I have never seen him again.
I met N outside in the rain that afternoon. I gave him the facts and then I walked away. He had been my fairytale (nightmare) for as long as I could remember. I felt like he was my everything – in truth he knew my every weakness and his mask was bulletproof.
I made the decision to disappear from every platform, relationship and medium that he knew as soon as I could. I moved house, I moved job and I moved on although feeling absolutely devastated. I didn’t know what no contact was back then but now I do and it all makes sense. I knew I wasn’t strong enough to walk away twice and I couldn’t let him have the chance to pull me back in.
It took N, 13 years to track me down. He had many people on the case. Even after all this time I realise the infection is still there hence why I now have the courage to learn and understand it through the medium of HG. N now casts me in his calculated games as the “enigma”, “the one that got away”. I know it shouldn’t matter but I can’t help but like that so much better than what the alternatives could have been.
I teach my children that inside some people there is a bucket without a base and no matter how much love, care and concern you pour into it there will be no meaningful reciprocation or relationship. I want them to know that we all have the capacity to fall in love with people who treat us badly and that walking away and maintaining distance takes courage, persistence and it hurts but that is okay.
Sarah
I had a professor say I was an enigma long, long ago. I thought it was a wonderful thing to be called. I’d always thought I was more of an open book. Thinking of myself as an enigma was a tremendous boost to my self esteem. Be proud of your complexity!
Windstorm, that is truly a lovely and supportive message – thank you (immensely)
Sarah,
I absolutely love this:
” I teach my children that inside some people there is a bucket without a base and no matter how much love, care and concern you pour into it there will be no meaningful reciprocation or relationship.”
Thank you so much for your comment, I am touched it resonated with you WhoCares. It is deeply personal to me as there are all kinds of love in the world, but I want our children to recognise the importance of being able to both give and receive the love they deserve.
Sarah, wow what an elegant way to explain to your children something so dark. Congratulations on your escape and all your hard work. You are a champion!
IdaNoe your words of encouragement are so very much appreciated. It is such a gift to share our thoughts in a forum where we have all walked a similar path. Thank you.
Good for you Sarah! I like the bucket analogy. Emotional vampires suck the life out of you.
SMH, I hear you! Emotional vampires are energy depleters. Nothing compares to the exhaustion we feel after the intensity of their engagement with us. Thank you for your support. May their buckets be attended to elsewhere!
Sarah, May their buckets spring leaks upon leaks upon leaks until they suck the living daylights out of everyone and no one will go near them with a 10 foot pole!
LOL SMH – nothing worse than a useless leaky old bucket 🤭
Sarah
What a great mom to be instilling that in your kids through lesson and example. A gift to them.
NA, your words strike a chord with me and I am so grateful for your perspective. Both lesson and example are the secret ingredients in raising children – they are the A team and one will not make ground without the other. A beautiful reflection so thank you!
Sarah🌹
I love your comment.
He really didn’t deserve you.
Took guts to change everything in your life and see it through. Courageous in such heartbreaking circumstances.
DB, thank you for your beautiful and supportive words. “He did not deserve you”. Thank you, thank you…even after all these years we still feel renewed by hearing this. There is so much history with the Ns and we need remember we want only genuine relationships rather than the perfect storm. I am grateful to be living a normal life knowing that it could’ve gone either way.
Sarah..
Yes.. it is a very scary thought to think it could have ended up going the wrong way. But you can take full credit for being in control of it by taking the action you did even when you felt completely out of control.
Thats the kind of skill astronauts have to have!!!! Lol.
Well done.
I’m so glad for you.. it isn’t playing sailing (or fying for that matter lol) by any means..
Nevertheless you’re in a decent orbit. It is you that got you there and it is you that maintains it.✨
Sarah…
Lol… The Damned autocorrect on this phone!!!. but I know you knew what I meant..🙄😜
DW – LOL – love it! Just orbiting around this weekend waiting for NASA to call! Figure N won’t recognise me in a space suit 🤣
Sarah
Haha..🚀😊👍
wow this was super inspiring to read. thank you for sharing.
Amanda, such a pleasure and thank you so much for connecting with my story 💛
After 11 years together, 8 of those married, we agreed to start a family. Two months into my pregnancy I discovered that he had started cheating with someone else the very weekend I found out I was pregnant. She’s 10 years younger. I surprised him with divorce papers.
I didn’t know what he truly was our entire relationship. Now I’m fully aware since his mask came off after I filed for divorce. I can now look back over the years and pick out all of the classic behaviors he exhibited. Gaslighting, silent treatment, etc.
He’s a covert Narcissist. Intelligent, charming, career driven. He has the whole world fooled into thinking he’s amazing. I would have made different choices about starting a family if he had just been honest with me. Now I have to co-parent with this S.O.B. monster and spend the next 18 years trying to undo any damage he causes our son who came into this world innocently and deserving so much better than a father that will try to break his soul.
I’m still trying to figure out what level Narcissist I’m dealing with because he seems to have a little of the Lesser, Mid-range, and Greater going on. I don’t know if a narcissist typically start out as a Lesser and grow into a Greater over experiences and time? Almost seems to be the case here.
HG, is it a progressive thing?
Not progressive. You should book a Narc Detector consultation.
Does a decoder ring come with that?
Free at last! Free at last! Thank gawd almighty, I am free at last! And loving life. I have a great new job, with an awesome company. Moved in to an amazing apartment in a wonderful neighborhood. Things couldn’t be better….but they were oh, so miserable not too long ago.
Man, was I love bombed! The golden period included dazzling jewelry and amazing trips. We were engaged after 4 months and the ring was gorgeous! I moved in with him 6 months later. Gave up everything I owned to be with him. Within one month I was not only being devalued, he offered me $5,000 to move out! I was in shock. Of course, the next morning he said he didn’t mean it.
Within 5 months of me moving in, I knew what I was dealing with, and I knew it wasn’t going to work. I just didn’t know how I was going to get out, not having any place to go and depending on him financially for everything.
In April, we had been together 18 months and I had had enough. I told him it was over and I started packing all of my things. I moved into a separate bedroom. I updated my resume and started looking for work. It took me another 4 months to actually get moved.
Now, life is good! No drama! No lies, no manipulation and I no longer have to worry about who he’s fucking on the side. I suppose I’m fortunate….I have found out since I left that he wasn’t nearly as abusive with me as he has been with other women. I don’t communicate with him, but then again, it’s only been 3 weeks. I never was friends with him on FB….so, I guess you could say I’ve gone no contact. We quit communicating with each other months ago.
I know he has initiated a smear campaign, but it really doesn’t matter. There aren’t that many people who he can smear me to.
Thank you, Mr. Tudor, for your voice of reason and constant reminders of what I needed to do and what I was dealing with. Knowledge is power, and the wisdom you share helped me have the strength I needed to never back down and to continuously go forward. I wish you and everyone here much love….I am forever grateful.
“we had been together 18 months and I had had enough. I told him it was over and I started packing all of my things. I moved into a separate bedroom. I updated my resume and started looking for work. It took me another 4 months to actually get moved.”
Same here! I celebrated 2 months of no contact last night.
Our escape stories are very similar. I tried telling him I didn’t want to be in the relationship any longer in February, moving into the spare room and starting to move my critically important and valuable things out then. I ghosted him at the end of June. New apartment (so peaceful and welcoming), new job to start in October. One thing I told him some time after the breakup speech was that “nothing in my life is a given. Not my car, not this apartment, not my job, not my clothes. Nothing.” Because I said it so emotionlessly, I guess he didn’t “get” that I meant him too! The best thing I’ve done in a really long time was to make that statement come true. Everything has changed… No more anxiety, no more confusion, no more fear, no more wondering, no more silent treatments, no more eggshells, no more nannying him and his petulant POS kids. And to think I was worried about whether ghosting him was “right” and wasted time feeling guilty about what I was doing TO HIM. ENOUGH.
As to the smear campaign: I imagine that one is going on, but you nailed it when you said, “There aren’t that many people who he can smear me to.” And those don’t matter. I’ve always lived my life so that if someone said something bad about me, no one would believe it. His friends (all 2 of them), his family, and even his baby mama thought well of me. I wonder, not what he says to them, but what they tell him about HIMSELF when they hear his lies. Ha! Don’t even care, these people mean less than nothing to me now.
We were fighting via text, because of something I did. He gave me two days silent treatment and because I felt guilty (ofc it was his manipulation, I didn’t do anything huge and he manipulated me to act the way I acted) I wrote him I was sorry. He replied with long text telling me it is over, he doesn’t see any future with me becauase I am so bad person who doesnt value him and only makes him feel worthless. He called me sociopath and so on. We were negotiating for a few days but he made it clear he won’t forgive me and is done. So I accepted it and went no contact. 2 weeks later the hoovering started and he was playing with my mind for a half of year before I finally blocked him.
What is also important, 2 months before he discarded me I escaped. Well maybe not really “escaped”, just told him it is over because I can no longer stand the way he treats me – his mood swings, his manipulations. A month later he hoovered me back. Now I know he did it only to discard me – he was unhappy it was me who ended things first. That’s how I see it now.
Agnes, That is what mine did too though I did not realize it at the time. I ended the FR. He hoovered and I fell for it, thinking we could be friends. I ended up going supernova on him and calling him a psychopath. I told him that he was a control freak and was trying to flip the script because I had escaped his control. I analyzed the hell out of him but he made me out to be the crazy one. So what. Let them think we are crazy. They know it isn’t true. It is just a defense mechanism for them.
7 yr relationship with the narc, 5 years living together.. the verbal and emotional abuse was too much, coupled by him pursuing other women (and denying it, of course).
I got my own place without letting him know.. he suspected something so he went into my purse and found my lease agreement, then took my keys and wallet and hid them in 2 separate places to try to keep me from leaving.
He begged me to come back for the next year, cried and asked to see my children (he is not their father). My children are recovering from his abuse towards me and manipulation and oppression of them, so they don’t want to see him (thank goodness). He’d flip between the abusive behavior and crying and pleading for me to return.
I’ve now moved out of state to be closer to family, I have degrees but am still trying to find work.. he hangs over my head the fact that he could financially help me – as a hoover – but I would rather struggle on my own than put myself and my children through what we endured with him ever again. He does very well financially but was always beyond cheap towards me, so I already know he would not be generous even in my time of need. He has already proved this time and time again in the past.
Every memory together was always tainted by his anger and constant efforts to devalue me, even while on oversees trips with friends.. and any event for that matter, if I was even included. Excluding me was his favorite past time.
He wanted to control me but deny our relationship; we were invited to weddings and he told me that if I wanted to go to things like that, I’d have to be with someone else.. that engaged couple was on a group trip with us to Puerto Rico, where the wife told me they wanted me to know that they did want me at the wedding, and they didn’t know why he wouldn’t bring me.. it may sound like a small thing, but every incident like this ripped me apart because I loved him, and yet he treated me like garbage. If others saw it, they were either his flying monkeys or they confided in me that they hate how he treats me.
I am hoping somehow to heal from all of this, and find myself again. He will always be a shallow, shell of a person and I can’t let him destroy who I am. So much easier said than done, but I am hopeful that with everything I am learning about Narcs that I will find my freedom and recovery in every aspect.
Elle, you can do this! I know you can. I was with a victim midranger for 6 yrs, married part of the time. He presented as my rock, my safe place, my friend. At 320 lbs, he was the smallest person I’ve ever known. He was petty, jealous, cruel and cowardly. People thought he looked like Goldberg. Inside he was the biggest pussy I’ve ever met. He swung back and forth too. Micromanaging every aspect of me, critiquing everything about me. Everything he initially respected about me, he manipulated to change and they became faults. Eventually he pushed too hard. He threatened to burn me and animals up in my home( he was a fireman) I was ashamed for a long time to admit that I out manipulated him. For 6 months we did the dance. I did what I had to do to no longer be “appealing” to him. Changed my look, courted the attentions of a higher functioning narcissist that I knew he was afraid of, fought him on every front. Then within a month or so after the dance, he was remarred. Something odd though, when we got together several women congratulated me on what a great guy he was. When we divorced, several men told me how worried they’d been for me because they could see how mean he was.
They dont change, won’t change, ever. You can do this. He thinks I’m insane. He thinks he escaped me, but he leaves me alone and that’s all that matters. You can do this!
IdaNoe
My narcs often tell me I’m crazy. I always say, “Yes. Yes I am crazy. It’s not like you didn’t already know that.”
There’s a lot to be said for insanity as a defense strategy!
Indeed!
WS
My mother and MMRN pulled that shit with me and I often responded with: I don’t give a flying fuck what you think.
K
Ah. But you are fiery and confrontational and I am not! Plus you decided they were crazy and you were the only normal one. I came to the opposite conclusion. I really believed I was abnormal, but I embraced it as the way God made me. Surely he’d had a reason to make me different from everyone else I knew. Here in the Bible Belt, even the narcs don’t argue with God. 😄
WS
Ha ha ha, I am a bit fiery, but it burns my ass when I think about the crap they put us through. We are both normal and I think they are the crazy ones, however, I suspect that they think we are the crazy ones and they are normal. Flip sides of the same coin.
K
True
Windstorm,
No they dont argue with God, the ARE God. Arguing with yourself is crazy. That’s for empaths!
Yeah that midranger was a very interesting combination of my mother and father. There was the physical of my father, bending my fingers back to get me to say I submit ( I’m defiant, I’d tell him fuck you, break ’em), humiliation and crap like that. Then he’s go inward and covert just like my mother, when the other didn’t work. He’d just slowly, methodically pick me apart. And it wasn’t just me. He had a daughter. Some of the worst fights were about his treatment of her. On his weekends, he didn’t seem content until he made her cry. She was a good kid. I hope it was enough for her to see the real him. Haven’t seen her in 15 yrs.
HG, I was a shelf DLS. Have not seen the narc in over 2 years since he got with a new IPPS. Last time we spoke (the narc was friendly, confided) was last October. He asked for space for him and his IPPS to work out their personal issues and promised to reach out soon. No word from the narc. I have not reached out since he asked me to wait for him to do so. So, I don’t know. Did my entanglement end? It’s been a long time. What is the status? Thank you much!
IL, I think he’ll only reach out if he runs into a permanent problem with the current IPPS. His promise to reach out at some point was empty. He didn’t want to say good bye or hint at any kind of closure so you wouldn’t move on too quickly. You should view it as permanent for your own sanity and make it final instead of leaving it in his court.
Hi Clarece, thank you for your response. Would you mind elaborating what you mean by a “permanent problem with IPPS”? Well, if he is a narc, and HG confirmed he was, he is sure to run into problems with his IPPS, right? Also, I was never in the running for the IPPS position. For the sake of the discussion, as I do not disagree with you that I should take control of the situation and not leave it up to him, I am confused as to why a narc would not come back to a reliable and compliant source of plentiful positive fuel when, as HG keeps repeating, narcs will always look to get more fuel and there’s never enough of it. Additionally, why would he leave things open-ended like that? There’s another wrinkle in the pic. He had a baby with the IPPS he always wanted but thought would never have. When we spoke last year, he actually said they were “together” for the baby. I know you can’t really trust much of what comes out of his mouth. When I consulted with HG last year, he said that he thought the narc would probably try and reestablish the formal relationship at some point but he did not know when. As time goes by with no word from the narc, I am just wondering what to think. I am sure you can understand our need to analyze the situation when things do not add up. Thanks again for commenting!
Insatiable Learner, I have to ask you a hard question. Are you wanting him to contact you? I’m not throwing stones believe me. It’s not a secret that i would love for my mother to call me, want me, need me, value me, before she dies, but it’s not going to happen. Even if she does, her number is blocked, so I won’t get the call. I love her and hate her. I’m heartbroken and angry. I’m a hot mess, but reality is reality. And I can’t change her and I can’t be what she wants me to be. Please be safe.You may think you’re stronger now, but they can break you. I know, have a million little pieces I’m desperately trying to make sense of and sew together into something that resembles a life. Be safe, be strong , be smart
Hi IL! To clarify what I meant by “permanent problem” I meant that I think he is content (are they ever really “happy”) with this current relationship and she is meeting his criteria for whatever fuel and residual benefits he wants. I don’t think you would hear from him unless she drastically pulls away from the relationship, breaks up, or causes an abrupt disruption to their current status.
Why is he not coming back to a “reliable, compliant fuel source”?
I’m going to be blunt on how it looks from my perspective based on what you write here and it’s not at all to be hurtful but to give you an outsider’s perspective.
You make it too freakin’ easy for him. You are 100% preoccupied with meeting HIS fuel needs to perfection without any room for what you need. That’s pretty vanilla especially when you’re not the main significant other. He’s been there, done that and even decided to not make you an IPPS. It’s too vanilla. Besides the fuel, there are boxes to tick on what residual benefits being with you would provide also. He’s not coming back because those needs are still being met with her. He also may be enjoying fatherhood since that was important to him. Any cracks in the foundation with the IPPS may not be big enough yet to disrupt wanting the facade of being family man. Wait until the baby is in school with lots of extracurriculars and demands increase at home. He may crack then wanting another fuel source.
You can’t be in limbo in the here and now because HG said he “thinks” your Narc would try to re-establish the formal relationship. Narcs perception of time are different than ours. He is not counting the months from your last conversation as you are. He is living is life in the moment. You need to do whatever it takes to stop caring if you ever hear back from him and live in your moment with the people around you who show by their actions, they want to be in your life.
Insatiable Learner,
This is the part that caught my eye: “why a narc would not come back to a reliable and compliant source of plentiful positive fuel.” There is a post about strawberry ice cream that explains this. Maybe K can find it for you. When we are reliable and compliant, they get bored, even if they loved that strawberry ice cream to start with. He also probably has another IPSS (or two or three) as well as IPPS.
For what it’s worth, I too was IPSS and mine is now with IPPS (I think). I sent him back to her but he ping ponged for awhile without her having a clue. He kept her where he wanted her (residuals, facade) and me where he wanted me (fiery fuel) until he didn’t anymore. But that was because of me, not because of her or him. I got tired of him firing me up all the time. He probably has another IPSS now (I suggested he find one).
Hi Clarece, thanks again for elaborating! I do not take your comments as you trying to hurt me. Yes, I do understand the IPPS is currently meeting his needs, especially, fuel needs. It won’t last! You know that. Yes, he is probably being content playing a father but it won’t last either. The guy is a somatic narcissist. Do you think he is going to be faithful to the IPPS for any extended period of time? Not happening. I do not want to be his IPPS. I am married. I am not sitting around and pining for him. I am living my life too. I look better than ever, doing very well in my career, and finances. You could say I have a perfect life. In fact, I am about to go on a great vacation with my husband who is all about me and expressing his love daily after many years of marriage. Am I bitter and angry with the narc? Yes! Because he did the bait and switch. I supported him emotionally through everything he went through, was always patient, and adoring, and he professed his love, compliments, etc. He even confided in me last time we spoke and was again complimentary. If you go back and re-read HG’s writings, he always says they want positive fuel and compliance from secondary sources. So I do not agree with your “too vanilla” comments. This exactly what they want from secondary sources not someone who keeps harping and getting on their case, complains, and demands. This is what IPPS does. She has every right to I know but the point is as HG reiterated many times, if a secondary source is painted white, they want positive fuel and compliance. Here is what I think is going to happen, he will be back once he starts to devalue the IPPS and the novelty of the fatherhood wears off. He will want to be adored and lavished with praise again and he will remember how I made him feel and he will be back. Then I will let him know what I truly think of him and what a scumbag he is. I cannot wait to witness his shock.
IL, with all due respect, if your life with your husband (btw you are extremely lucky to have a normal, loving husband while the majority of us are facing our days and our pain alone), is so perfect and you’re thriving, why do even need to be here asking the same question over and over in different ways? You wouldn’t care less when or if the Narc ever returned to you.
I’ve always interpreted HG saying he wants nothing but positive fuel from secondary sources to mean family, friends, co-workers. Once you do the deed with someone, all bets are off. Sex will always change everything whether you are with a Narc or not.
SMH also recommended the strawberry ice cream article, which refers to becoming too vanilla.
hi Insatiable,
Your problem is not (strictly speaking) the person who ghosted you in the most narkiest of ways! But that you’re reacting to a lack of closure plus infatuation (a natural instinct to vet partners during the bonding process) —which means that you’re left with a life event-gap caused by 1). unfinished business and 2). a neverending fantasy that your feelings, frozen in the infatuation stage, keep feeding.
This is a major time and energy sinker.
Just imagine them getting in touch with you (wow: adrenaline rush!), you go to stay at their place and have sex. They’re the same person, but the feelings are abit different, time has passed and your memories are not completely matching the present which holds disappointments and inconsistencies, and the strange reality of the person outside your incubated fantasies—not to mention, two years of NC does affect intimacy.
Other feelings come up, like skepticism. You look around and see evidence of the real person. You see his flaws and you notice that you aren’t entirely comfortable with them, the magic has worn off. You’re less excited than you thought you’d be.
They are a real person just like anyone else and there’s no reason why they should have this much power over your freedom. They also have flaws that you don’t admire or ignore, anymore, now that you see them more clearly.
You deserve to be with someone who treats you with respect and contributes to your life.
Hi /Iroll, this is a very good contribution to this blog!
The loss of magic is mostly emphasized here by HG (fuel becomes stale) but it probably happens on both sides if the involvement takes long enough. I suppose narcs are the ones that get bored first normally. When the involvement continues, I believe it will happen on the other side too. Being nomadic (as HG) is probably the best defense for a narc to prevent that from ever happening.
Anyhow, from my experience, the loss of magic does happen with narcs. There is a huge pain from not getting return on your emotional investment (and time!) on the one side. There is boredom on the other. Fear (in a variety of forms) plays a huge role in staying involved. Reading here and having so much inside-information definitely accelerates the process of getting bored.
I went back to the MR several times, but with every time he lost some of his attraction: because he did stay away from me again for several weeks/months (how dare he), but also because of the fake profiles, the power/control seeking, the avoidance in answering your honest questions, the flattery (which I don’t need that much really – lol), the blame-shifting etc. etc. At a given moment I was done with all of that. I craved some real human interaction (with him) about what was happening to us. That would have been interesting – but impossible.
My problem is my sense of responsibility. I could never hurt him, knowing what he had endured as a child (and still has to). So to walk away from him was a huge, huge barrier. I literally felt like I was obliged to care for him. To say no to that sense/feeling is my road to freedom. The learning process is hard, but it comes with a lot of residual benefits (to stay true to blog-language).
So yes, narcs are real persons and their magic does wear off. If you don’t/can’t go NC all of a sudden, then probably you will get bored with them over time (provided that you keep feeding yourself with knowledge).
What is left then is your personal quest to why you were/are attracted to such a person in the first place.
That is when it starts to become really interesting again.
Shesaw how are you doing? I’ve been thinking of you wondering how NC is going for you. I think last time we spoke you had recently endured a Hoover.
Iroll you make a good point. For me I have seen the evidence of who the N is gradually over time so the closure that Insatiable is seeking is not important to me (as if they would ever give us closure anyway). I do see how wanting closure after being ghosted or dropped cold could drive you mad. I agree anticipating the N return will prove to be a huge disappointment to Insatiable because she is aware of who he is and the magic is gone.
Hey Mercy, good to see you, am wondering how you are, too.
I’m OK – how neutral is that…. There were/are hoovers, he wants me back (can’t fault him on that one, lol).
I didn’t talk to him so far. Its a strange pull, the hooks he has in me. I do find him boring and I rationally don’t want him back, but the attraction is still there. Strange experience. I believe you understand how it feels 🙂
Shesaw, yes I do understand. I think most of us that come to this site really have our shit together. Most of us live a pretty stress free lives and our interactions with others are very normal. I think the problem lies with not understanding how someone we care about can be this stranger and then realizing that you don’t even like the stranger. The stranger isnt someone we would entertain in the real world. Also maybe some of it is wounded pride, wanting to fix them so we can somehow fix ourselves.
Insatiable Learner
I think you have been shelved. It is not the time period which is the governing factor, but access and, based on your comment, I don’t think he has disengaged.
You are very familiar with HG’s work, however, here is the link to the strawberry article if you need it.
https://narcsite.com/2018/08/11/in-the-end-it-has-to-hurt-7/
There were so many hoovers, stops and starts, we’re probably tit for tat. JN maligned hoovered in February when he first started dating his now current girlfriend under the guise of wanting to meet up and see me for Valentine’s Day because he “owed me”. I declined that day not even believing his offer. He was still staying in contact for a couple of weeks. When I asked whatever happened to that offer, he then used the opportunity to say “I’d love to see you, definitely, but I’ve started dating someone new and we are getting serious so I can’t”. I told him he was completely transparent and that all this was just a big ruse to try to lure me in so he could reject me again by telling me about this new girlfriend at that point. I blocked him completely and went NC. About a week before the 4th of July, which was when he stood me up for the hotel weekend 3 years ago, I got a “mistext” meant for a friend and a late night butt dial. I messaged him to knock off all of that and delete my number for good. It’s been silent since. He continues to have his facade girlfriend who thinks he is a “wonderful man”. I’ve done a really good job since February not caving or reaching out at all. I don’t feel bad about messaging him in July to stay away from me. He needed the reminder that I’m done with his games. I’m sure from his perspective he will think he ended it because he entered into a serious relationship and explained that to me. He can have that. Whatever.
He asked me to move back in with him. Wanted me to pay rent.
I lived a 100 miles away at this time.
I had already traveled 1500 miles to live with him before. Dropped everything and everyone in my life to be with him.
Within a month he was devaluing me.
Raged at me for asking questions.
So I moved out. To my 1/2 sisters home.
He came back to rekindle and pull me back.
I told him I couldn’t just drop everything again to move in with him. To give me time to get finances in order. Look for a job close to him. I cried cause all I ever wanted was things to work out.
So after my trip back to home base, I didn’t hear from him except a little brief text once in awhile. Not even a phone call.
I started to get upset and frustrated. I asked him if we were over because of my decision to wait.
No response. Finally about a week or so later he email me a huge book of an email to tell me what a wonderful, smart, blah, blah, blah woman I was but he cannot have a full on committed relationship with me cause he has no warm fuzzy feelings for me.
That it wouldnt be fair to me or him to continue even tho we have so much in common.
Even tho I was very cautious of him, I still loved him and wanted to be with him. So I was so crushed and cried so much. I felt like dying.
He made a 100 mile trip in the dark through the mountains to bring my few items I still had at his house even after working 8 hours.
I told him not to come. I didn’t want to see him cause I started getting informed on narcs. He did anyways.
Then later in a text he said he met another woman only 4 days after our last weekend together. The weekend he asked me to move back. When I confronted him about the date, he tried to convince me we broke up in May. A month earlier. I had proof. I still had the dated text messages of that last weekend from my trip to his home. He said thats why he can’t ever talk to me because of my sherlock Holmes tactics. What????
He hid that from me. He was actually in a relationship with someone else within 4 days and married her in 3 months.
I was strung along for almost 2 years by him.
Thunderstar
I’d take that as high praise! Sherlock Holmes was smarter than almost everyone else. I’d interpret his comment about your “Sherlock Holmes tactics” as an inadvertent admission that you are way smarter than he is – or that he is way dumber than you! Lol!
hahaha sherlock Holmes tactics. I love that phrase!
How are you now doing? Thank god he has a new one. run. use this in your advantage to run.
I lost count of the times I left him and he hoovered me back proclaiming eternal love for me during the three years that lasted our relationship. The last time I broke up with him, he tried to hoover me by insinuating there was another girl interested in him. I said “Fine by me!” and started dating someone else. I never went back to him but it took me a long time to get him out of my system.
With my mother, I implemented limited contact as soon as I learned about NPD and went total NC later.
I have been wondering if my ex husband is a narc. It is not clear at all but just in case I did not reply to his last very nice email to me. It can seem as very rude from me not to answer his nice email but I don’t give a damn. I am not interested in having contact with him, narc or no narc.
you are very strong. thank you for sharing.
After a two-month intense seduction, R disengaged – easy to do since he lived 200 miles away. He would then reappear about every couple of months wanting to “reignite the flames” or test the waters. I responded to his calls and texts cordially, but dodged face-to-face meetings and tried to steer conversations away from “the flames” to mundane topics. Then I started reading HG’s works and realized R had displayed more red flags than an Ohio State halftime show. That’s when I went NC. Against HG’s good advice, I have not blocked his texts (yes, I understand pushing against an open door). R still tries hoovering every couple of months, but I no longer have any urge to communicate, confront, or seek answers; that would be pointless. Nonetheless, each time I ignore him, I get a little revenge, knowing that my stony silence criticizes him. That’s my fuel, and I damn well earned it.
Narchaic
“R had displayed more red flags than an Ohio State halftime show.”
That’s a great line!
Thanks, Windstorm! I find humor to be more curative than self-flagellation for my ignorance.
I believe that we are close in both age and geography. Love reading your comments and happy birthday weekend!
Narchaic
Thank you! I’ll be 61. We are in border states! I have family in Canton, but I usually only see them at reunions. I’m not fond of crossing the Ohio River unless I’m headed west (or south of course)! 😄
Happy birthday Windstorm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You gotta love a greeting thats also a gift (the exclamations).
Yes, NarcAngel! Thank you!!!!!
Windstorm!
Although I do not really “know” you, ,I feel we have developed some familiarity after all the time I have had the pleasure and joy of interacting with you here .
So I wish you a very ,very ,very happy birthday together with your family and specially your grandchildren(birthday cake with them?).
Happy Birthday!
Superxena
Thank you very much for the birthday wishes! I plan on having a great birthday weekend, although I am careful to not make any specific plans. We all know that specific plans and narcissists usually lead to disappointment. Lol!
My two sons whose children live nearby are both narcs and then also of course my exhusband. I learned years ago to buy my own birthday gift and cake and secure my own happiness. Getting to see any of them, any gifts, movie, dinners, etc. will just be a wonderful surprise!
You are welcome Windstorm.
Ha,ha :”We all know that specific plans and narcissists usually lead to disappointment. “
Oh yes, we perfectly know that.
Securing your own happiness with so many narcissits around you ,that is what I call a very realistic and at the same time very positive approach.
Enjoy your birthday weekend. You deserve it!
Thanks, Superxena! You have a great weekend too!
You are welcome Windstorm and thank you!
Happy Birthday WS!!! I hope all your birthday wishes come true.
K
Thank you for the bday wishes! I do Birthday weekends and this one is a three-day, so it has to be good!
Had a great day today. Exhusband took me to my very favorite restaurant (Red Lobster), out for ice cream and even suffered thru a visit to a crystal/spiritualist store and bought me two crystals! (He seemed to suffer actual pain! But I’m sure he gathered ideas to joke about herbs, candles and crystal therapy to gather fuel later from others! 😝)
My empathic son is coming up tomorrow to spend the day and night with me and I bought a bunch of ammo so we can target practice. Even if the rest of the weekend flops, today was a terrific day!! 🎊
Glad you had such a nice birthday, Windstorm! Hope the rest of the weekend is just as good!
WS
I am very happy to read that you went to your favorite restaurant with your ex and he was able to suffer through his pain during your visit to a crystal/spiritualist. I am sure he acquired quite a bit of intelligence to use for future fuel gathering endeavors.
The target practice sounds like a lot of fun. Overall it looks like a very well planned birthday weekend.
K it has gone very well! Even my youngest son brought his boy over for the cake and target practice. All three sons were there with 3 of my grandkids. And the gun handled very well, too! 😄
Happy Birthday Windstorm.
💜🌹🌹🍰🥂
Let me chime in with another happy birthday, Windstorm! Unfortunately I do not know how to use emoticons on this blog but lots of hearts, flowers, balloons and cake for you! Oh, and a few drinks!
SMH
Thank you!
Windstorm, from SMH and me
🎉🎈🎁🎂🍷🍸🍹
Happy Birthday
IdaNoe
Thank you very much! I really appreciate your kind wishes. ❤️
Hahaha. Thank you, IdaNoe!
Thank you, Debbie Wolf!
HG
There has been much speculation about the date of your birth. I just want to say that whenever it is, know that it is celebrated by many.
I’m obliged. All gifts can be forwarded to my gate keeper.
Wonderful windstorm…. I’m a little late to the party, as I have not followed the poll. Happy belated birthday lovely, I hope that you have had an amazing weekend full of laughter, joy and making new beautiful memories. Qx
Thank you so much, Quasi! Yes it has been a great weekend so far. Today is a holiday (Labor Day), so there is still one day left! My son who lives in TN spent the night with me (not even dawn here yet) and we are going to target practice and meet one of his brothers and his two girls. My 5 year old granddaughter picked me out a cake that she’s very eager to show me today. Should be a good day!
That sounds wonderful.. time with family is very special, with cake and target practice- sounds like it will be a good day, and very much deserved. I hope they spoil you rotten with love and cake. Qx
Windstorm
Happy Birthday 🎂🎁🎉🎊🎈
Sending lots of good wishes, vibes and all that there is!!!!!!
Hope your day is as wonderfully special as you!!
Thank you, Twilight! I do Birthday weekends and this one is a three-day! Today (Saturday) was terrific. Hopefully the rest will go well, too!.
Happy birthday from over the ocean, Windstorm! 🎁🎈
Thank you very much, shesaw! ❤️
Windstorm!
https://youtu.be/inS9gAgSENE
🎉🎂🍻❤️
Thank you very much, Presque Vu! ❤️
Happy birthday windstorm – I know I’m a little late ah I apologize xx
Dr Q
You’re not late at all. Still my birthday weekend. Glad to see you back. It’s been a while. I’ve been wondering about you!
Oh Narchaic, my ex narcissist lives in Columbus!! 🤢Stay safe!!
❤️
I actually escaped my abuser. I was held hostage for the last 48 hours of my marriage or whatever you want to call it. he actually used our than nursing infant daughter to hold me hostage standing between her and I and attempting to cajole me into setting foot outside of the house without her. it was a Monday night a little after 11 early in the month of August when when I finally escaped with my child after enduring 7 assaults over the course of 2 days. so you can say I told him to his face that I was going to leave but truthfully it is that I ran screaming in Terror from the home and had a carefully planned Escape which included family on both sides and law enforcement
Bettina
That had to be terrifying, but you did it. Not that you should dwell on reliving that, but when things get tough and if you feel yourself being pulled back in, remember the feeling of relief when you knew you were free and safe. Remember how you had the strength to do that, and the relief you felt at having removed your child from it. Hold on to THAT feeling when the trickster that is your emotional thinking comes calling. Someone else is counting on you to remember but she cant ask you. I’m asking you for her. Please remember and never go back.
Never would I dream of going back. And I have become a master deflector in keeping other ones away from me now for a nurturing and healthy relationship with a real man please
Horrified to hear of your experience and wish so much peace, healing, and precious time to enjoy your daughter away from that monster.
Bettina
So glad you both got away!
I told the narcissist it was over to his face and then I imposed a silent treatment and a no contact… Which was breached a few times due to the imposition of being practically stalked.
Hoovered relentlessly for a very long time.
I found this blog about 4 months later.
HG helped me.
And his presence in my circumstances saw me through.
I still rely on HGs guidance.
He has been my true mentor and he is sensible and practical particularly when my emotion takes over, I find HGs guidance massively beneficial. To be fair he gave me strength when I was feeling at my worst and weak.
Following his advice works..you have to be determined and committed to follow it through.
I would like to add to my comment: just to say to anybody new, don’t be afraid to have a consultation with HG.
He is extremely professional and very nice to speak to on the phone.
He is very helpful very understanding and practical.
He has a scary voice on his YouTube channel sometimes….lol .. don’t let that put you off.
He is pleasant to speak to and will help you when you just don’t know what to do anymore.
Thank you DW.
HG
👍 Credit where credit is due. Many thanks to you my friend, as always.
I told him he would die alone, he did within two hours of me stating this fact.
Hello Twilight,
I had to read your comment twice…so it actually happened? I hope it does not sound cruel, but can you wish that for my ex as well? And I am not joking….
considering that “ The relationship with a narcissist ends only when one of them dies” ….I might need that to happen..
I hope all is fine with you.
Hello Superxena
I am fine thank you. How are you?
Yes that actually happened, it messed me up for awhile, more so due to this was the last thing I ever said to him. He called me and I let it go to voice mail, he ended up dropping his phone and I heard almost three minutes of him suffering.
I understand why you and many would wish this. That relationship ended with his death.
Twilight, I’m very sorry. I can’t imagine how devastating that was. If you still have pain, I wish you peace.
IdaNoe
I am at peace, I hope you can find yours.
Hello Twilight,
I am fine thank you for asking. Yes, Friday at last!
“I didn’t have access to his ashes …..and be rid of him and no one will ever know where he was. That was his fear to be buried where he would be forgotten. “
That would have been something: the worse nightmare for a narcissist.
Would that have made you feel better and released your anger?
Yes, I am sure that many of us want that to happen: them to die.
First I felt bad about wanting that to happen but not now. Specially now ( about a month and a half ago)when he tried to hoover me by proxy again( the only resource he has left, I have blocked him everywhere).
When this “new” lieutenant brought up his name to me, I denied (again for the second time) knowing a man called like that( his name).
He is still testing the waters but he will only find quicksand with me if he gets near enough.
To be honest, lying does not make me feel very proud about myself. There are white lies and “black” lies buy I felt this was a golden lie for me( denying his existence , never have met him).
This makes me think about the fact that learning here and applying the knowledge , has changed my mindset. My response was instinctive. I even got surprised afterwards of my own answer (denying his existence again) that came automatically as a protective strategy.
I wish you a delightful weekend.
Hello Superxena
Hope your weekend has been well. Thank you my weekend has been busy, making a scarf, a blanket, and helping my best friend organise the employee pay work at a store she is taking over.
Would throwing his ashes in a pit where he would be forgotten made me feel better?
No it would not have. Working through the many whys I was angry accepting the responsibility for my part in that relationship helped with the anger I felt towards him and then forgiving him has lasted longer then a moment of watching him tumble into the darkness and then have to face lying about knowing his whereabouts.
I don’t like to lie, and I would never have been at peace if I had thrown his ashes in some pit.
Hello Twilight,
Thank you. My weekend was very giving from many different fronts.
I can see that yours was hectic and with various mixed activities- a scarf and a blanket, for your grandchildren?Sounds fine. Helping your friend with employee pay work was perhaps not much fun but certain things when running a business just have to be done.
“it would not have. Working through the many whys I was angry accepting the responsibility for my part in that relationship helped with the anger I felt towards him and then forgiving him has lasted longer then a moment of watching him tumble into the darkness and then have to face lying about knowing his whereabouts.”
If you feel like sharing:
– what responsibility do you believe you had in the relationship?
– do you believe forgiveness is essential for moving on? I did not feel that forgiveness was necessary to move on.
I believe that abuse is unforgivable, not matter what.
Not forgiving does not necessarily mean having feelings of hatred towards that person. I understand that some need to forgive to move on but others do not need it.
-I do not like to lie either but I can’t say I haven’t. It all depends on the cause and the intent of lying. Do you believe that there are people that never lie? I do not think so. Even more, there are people who are not even aware that they are lying or who even believe their own lies.
Hello Superxena
The blanket is for my granddaughter, the scarf I have yet to decide to whom it will go to. It is relaxing for me to work on crafts of this nature.
No never fun to do paperwork yet she was left with a serious mess that needs to be straightened up.
Do I believe forgiveness is needed to move on. No I do not. It is a choice for each individual.
Everyone lies at some point in time. The worst ones are those we tell ourselves and don’t even see them or convince ourselves are honest to stay comfortable.
In my entire marriage only one day stands out, I made a decision that was used against me. I am responsible for that decision. I forgave him for putting me into that situation.
Hello Twilight,
I agree with you: “Everyone lies at some point in time. “
The “definition “ of lying may differ from person to person.
I hope all is fine with you!
Hello Superxena
I am fine, thank you.
How are you?
I agree with you the “definition” of what one considers a lie may differ from person to person.
Absolute truth is clouded by emotions that influence our perspective. There is not one person that is not affected by at least one emotion. I do believe a person can become aware of their emotions and become an observer of them vs a participant in them.
Hello Twilight,
I am fine thank you and thank you for asking.
“Absolute truth is clouded by emotions that influence our perspective.”
True. It is interesting though that you write “absolute” truths instead of “objective “truths.
Do you equate both?
I always try to avoid using the word “absolute”.
The term objective is more clear cut for me where an objective truth remains true as long as it can be supported by facts,measurements, observations etc. In that case it may not be considered as absolute “per se” taking into consideration the rapid development of science and improved scientific methods that lead to new ( scientific ) discoveries .
The word “absolute “ transports me to areas such as philosophy,moral,ethics,religion where it is easy to fall into subjectivity /perceptions and perspectives( right, wrong , better,worse etc.)
Take for instance killing. Specifically abortion. As we all know, many cultures consider abortion as immoral, unethical and even illegal.
What about abortion in the specific case of (let us say )a teenager daughter that got pregnant as a result of sexual abuse/rape? Is it still unethical and immoral?
Or killing in self-defense, protecting your own children or other children?
We can go even further an include in the equation not only human species but as well other species as animals to kill for consumption by humans?Where is the the line supposed to be drawn?
I want to believe in the existence of absolute truths because I refuse to fall into a general relativism where all is subject and dependable of something else.
I have not found any yet but I am still searching!
Best wishes
Superxena
I probably come about as close as possible to someone who never deliberately lies. But that’s probably because I am so incredibly bad at lying that there never really was any reason to try. I can misdirect, mislead and not answer, but I haven’t tried to actually outright lie to someone in 30 years. The closest I come to lying is to stay quiet and let someone draw a faulty conclusion.
You are right about people believing their own lies and lying to themselves. This makes sense to me because I believe all truth is relative and depends on your circumstances. What is truth for me, may be ridiculous to someone else in another situation and vise versa.
Hello Windstorm,
“I probably come about as close as possible to someone who never deliberately lies. “
I do not find hard to believe that about you Windstorm. I believe you are a very straightforward and honest person.
I think that there are many ways of lying: i .ex. omitting information( not telling) is for me a form of lying. It is what I call “passive lies”.
As for the truth being subjective ,you are right.It depends on one’s perspective.
However, I do believe that there are objective truths that are independent of perspectives.
Something that has made me wonder many times if there are absolute truths?
Best wishes.
SuperXena, There are what are called ‘lies of commission’ and then what are called ‘lies of omission’ (your ‘passive lies’). My MRN believed he only lied when the wrong words came out of his mouth (lies of commission). Therefore, he was not lying to IPPS because he had never said her that he was NOT having an affair. He actually asked me ‘how am I lying to my wife?” when I pointed out that he had lied to both of us. He believed it. Abrazos.
Hello SMH,
Thank you for clarifying the concepts.
I am afraid I do not follow you concerning your ex:
Do you mean that he actually believed that he was not lying to his wife by not telling her he had a mistress or did he believe you when you explained that that was as well a lie ( lie of omission). Something that would be peculiar for a narcissist to accept, unless of course there is a “narcissistic” reason for admitting it…
Abrazos,
Superxena
Forgive me for just jumping in to your discussion. Technically I would not consider it a “lie” for him to not tell his wife that he’s having an affair. It is definitely deceptive, but lies are just one type of deception. To me, omitting facts is not lying. Likewise even if she directly asked him, “Are you having an affair?” And he answered, “I’m not going to answer a question like that!” That is technically not a lie either. He is actually speaking truth.
This seems very logical and obvious to me, but maybe that is because I was raised by and always lived with greater narcs. They seemed to view this type of “honesty” as a sort of game. Like “How can I stay strictly truthful, but get everyone to think like I want them to?” It’s like the saying, “caveat emptor,” only it’s “let the listener beware.”
Windstorm, it is exactly like that! Listener beware! Shocking to me. I just gave SuperXena a few more examples. It is deception – yes – but it is deception by way of what I would call lies. It is a lie to go to marital counseling pretending to ‘re-couple’ when your partner thinks you are being faithful but you are having an affair the whole time. I guess I am splitting hairs – call it deception or lies, it sucks.
SMH
“call it deception or lies, it sucks.”
This is very true. And you can’t even count on what they directly say to be true, since they lie like they breathe.
Windstorm, so true and lying is so hard for me that I could never go through life like that.
Before the affair part of the FR (once I knew about IPPS) I told MRN that it would be a train wreck because he had lied to me. I warned him over and over. But he pressed on and the whole thing was one big slow mo crash!!
Windstorm,
Interesting points you raise.
“This seems very logical and obvious to me, but maybe that is because I was raised by and always lived with greater narcs. “
Yes, I believe that that explains why your concept of lying is as such Windstorm.
My concept of what a lie is has been ”tinged” by what I have learned, seen and what I was taught ( by my parents mainly) during my childhood.
“They seemed to view this type of “honesty” as a sort of game. “
I can absolutely relate to that one from my relationship with the exGreater.
It was a game for him .He sometimes gave “hints” of what was going on but never the whole picture. Mind games….
“It’s like the saying, “caveat emptor,” only it’s “let the listener beware.”
Ha, ha. Yes the caveat emptor can absolutely be applied here:
It is not the responsibility of the seller(if the product is flawed) but of the buyer to find out vs it is not the responsibility of the narcissist to lie but of the victim to find out( or not).
This caveat made me think about the saying in Spanish( I know you are fond of Spanish) :” Ojos que no ven ,corazón que no siente” ( “out of sight, out of mind”?)
SuperXena, I think that saying would be more like ‘if you didn’t see it, it didn’t happen’ or ‘what you don’t know, can’t hurt.’ Like a lot of idioms, it doesn’t really have a good translation!
Superxena
“Ojos que no ven ,corazón que no siente”
I read this saying literally, before I read your translation to the English idiom. I read it as, “eyes that don’t see, heart that doesn’t feel.” That strikes me as a profound description of our relationship to the narcissist. Our eyes don’t see the truth about him and his heart does not feel our pain.
Thank you for sharing it. ❤️
SuperXena,
I meant that because he had not actually SAID to his wife that he did NOT have a mistress, he could claim that he was NOT lying. He only recognized lies of commission (when something is said) and not lies of omission (when something is not said). For instance, early on I made an offhanded reference to his kids. I explicitly said, ‘I think you told me you have a son and two daughters,’ blah, blah, blah. He has three daughters and no son but did not correct me. Therefore he implicitly confirmed that he had a son, which is a lie. He told me he was divorced and his name was X, and admitted to those lies. But he ignored everything he did not say – just went on as if nothing was amiss. Very bizarre!
I was so shocked by his denial that he was lying to his wife (though now I understand the narcissistic defense and all that), I think I said something sarcastic like oh yeah, because it is Sunday and we haven’t fucked since Thursday, you are not lying to your wife.
I was trying to draw parallels between lying to me and lying to his wife but it was over email. He said my writing was like ‘Chinese characters’ and then left the conversation. But before he did, he said, it’s like skiing a powdery slope and finding yourself upside down in a tree well. What are you going to do? Get yourself out and move on or second guess why you skied there? I said, well, if someone PUSHED me down a powdery slope and I ended up in a tree well, I would get myself out – I always land on my feet – but the person who pushed me would hear about it. And he did. Can you believe that he wanted me back after this? Insane.
Anyway, if he ever googles ‘pushed down slope tree well’ or ‘Chinese characters,’ I hope he finds this. I hope he follows SMH all over this blog :-).
SMH,
“Anyway, if he ever googles ‘pushed down slope tree well’ or ‘Chinese characters,’ I hope he finds this. I hope he follows SMH all over this blog :-).”
…as said google serves many purposes!
Google is our friend. I can play the game too. MRN is now all over the internet. I could even post something with his name and contact info in that little public Facebook box they give you for your biography.
Had a conversation with my husband a couple of weeks ago where I felt angry. He brought up some podcast story about an older couple and the woman found out he’d had a very long (30 year?) affair and they were trying to work through it. Obviously to me an enormous deceit and my husband made an offhand remark that “if she never found out it wouldn’t have actually affected her” and I felt pretty upset and shocked that he could say that. I said “she could have had an entirely different life”. I really just don’t understand people sometimes. I think he came around to understanding where I was coming from, but there has always been between our perceptions of the world, a huge gulf.
It’s alright I think, I express my opinions anyway, I just feel like it can be tedious.
Hello nunya biz,
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Your comment caught my attention.
I do not know how long you have been married and I assume that you suspect your husband is a narcissist (NPD) and that you are trying to find out if he is? Being that the reason why you are here with the aim of leaving him?
What I found interesting (and can relate to my own experience ) was that your husband (himself ) brought this topic up.
Many times they do it because they want:
– to find out what is your standpoint about a particular issue -in this case infidelity ( how would your reaction be if that happens?)
-to test you ( are you capable of being unfaithful yourself?)
-to provoke a reaction in you.
I believe that expressing your points of views is never tedious when interacting with a non-narcissist. The exchange of points of view is real and enriching for both parties.
However the rules change when interacting with a person with NPD .
Those pertaining the lower classes( with no awareness) really believe that their perspective is the only (right ) perspective.
The upper schools who have a higher degree of awareness and know that there are different perspectives , will never admit that they are wrong and you are right because doing that would threaten their sense of superiority and control.
Either way, in both cases when speaking about different perspectives or points of view with a NPD , you always fall into circular conversations with no end.
It is like running right into a wall smashing your head against it every time.
It is a death-end street.
You will be better off not embarking on conversations like this with him or just giving short answers without emotion and even better, leaving him for good if he is a NPD.
That ship has sailed!
Thank you SuperX, I have some comments around the blog currently about it in different pieces (journaling to even a half interested reader helps me, it’s an outlet I’ve developed a major habit of, dumb story). This particular comment was sort of about my husband’s ability to compartmentalize, even to this day when he knows how I feel about things. He broached an open marriage years ago, but he also wanted complete control of that, which with my particular constellation of traits was going to be impossible for him, he didn’t know that at the time. We do have an open marriage now.
For my husband, he confuses me as an individual case (and no I have not done a consultation). He was raised by a narcissistic adopted mother from infancy. I think at his core he is a well-meaning scientist, very analytical, doesn’t cause problems for most people, I would say “amicable”. We’ve developed a shared humor, he can be understatedly funny. His father has only the most flirtatious acquaintance with truthful reality. For the majority of our marriage I couldn’t break through his passive aggression and he saw himself as without flaw and a bit of a victim, thinking it could not possibly be the case that he had any fault. I know he believed he was smarter than I am (I also know that he isn’t). He could emotionally shut me out for months on end without noticing at all- I’d develop that habit too if I was male and had his parents. If I cried he was completely removed. He was actually a perfect rebound from the relationship I’d just finally escaped from with a violently controlling and abusive lesser narcissist (100% certain of that one) who would never let me be, but because of who I am it became intolerable for me.
I had a lot of struggles with him wanting an open marriage and I think it was because I detected the passive aggression and some lack of empathy in there, wanting to control, selfish desires, inability to self-reflect, question and communicate and an unwillingness to develop-
not because I am currently against whatever marital arrangement anyone chooses. I also was craving something else, so it’s not like I ran screaming from the suggestion. I just had a lot of difficulty understanding and he didn’t get that you can’t tell me one thing and expect another, I live nowhere near black and white anyway, not on purpose, it’s just foreign to me.
I commented somewhere else that I think he’s developed cognitive empathy toward me just over the last two years (out of 17) and he truly is doing his best to support me. I don’t know if we will stay together, but I have no current intention to leave and I do care about what happens to him. This comment was about how he will never truly “get” certain things from my point of view. I’m okay with that to an extent. This blog saves me because I gain understanding of “why” and also of why I do the things I do. Apologies for the length, but thank you for your suggestions and by the way “tedious” with a narcissist is the biggest understatement of the century, I aim to simplify. I can spend energy like I don’t even know why given the right combination of compelling bullshit.
Nunya biz
“has only the most flirtatious acquaintance with truthful reality.”
Love that line! Have to remember to tell it to my exhusband. May text him right now. He can share it with the other attorneys. They all meet people like that all the time. 😄
Lol, WS, he is one of a few “Big Fish” men that I know, I’d asked HG about the classification.
We just traveled to visit again finally after probably eight years or so, I just love where my husband grew up, it’s beautiful. We usually only see his father for a few hours, we get all the make-believe that we need in that span, the stories blur together. He’s been divorced from husband’s mother for decades and somehow two years ago when he saw her at a funeral she apparently approached him and placed her hands on either side of his face, kissed him gently on the lips, and said “I’ve really missed you”– all in front of his girlfriend of thirty years.
Two days later we’re staying with his mother and she’s reading my husband a magazine article out loud from her local retirement magazine about grandparents relationships with their grandchildren and then closes it and summarizes, “see, they say it’s normal for grandparent’s sometimes to not like their grandchildren”. My very well behaved and lovable kids were in the next room. Trust me when I say the woman kisses no one.
Nunya biz
His mother sounds like my mother. The only memories I have of her touching me after about age 5 were to spank me.
Windstorm
Your comment made me stop and think. For all of the memories that I can bring forward at will, I cannot recall a time, or the feeling, of my mother hugging me. I have always been accutely aware of my family’s lack of demonstrating affection, but never really stopped to think how odd it is that a mother would not hug her child. I dont recall her doing it before Stepnarc either and I was 5 when he came into the picture. I remember other things at 5. Hmmm.
NarcAngel
I never thought it was odd that Mama never touched me until my empathic grandmother moved up from Florida when I was 14 or so. Whenever anyone came to see her she hugged them and again when they left. This included my mother, of course, being her daughter. Mama would always hug her back and smile or even laugh. This totally confused me because there was zero touching in our home and I knew it was because Mama wanted it that way.
WS, same here.
The interesting thing to me. Fascinating actually.
Is that I TRULY BELIEVED in my youth that I was simply out in the world, doing my best to find “the one”. My partner. I had great intentions.
I had no idea that the entire reason I clicked with and married my husband was because his behaviors perfectly complimented mine at the time (in a mostly unhealthy way, it turns out, but it is what it is). His parents and my parents are different people, but by gender/role dynamic and underlying mental dysfunction they are nearly identical couples.
I had not even met them, our interactions with each others’ parents were limited enough. When we met all we did was snuggle and have sex, I didn’t see anything else at all.
My mother was more angry than his, but equally cold and unloving. Like you say I only recall her touching me to spank me or slap me. My father is another “Big Fish” type, delusions of grandeur and no ability to teach me any real world navigation skills. Used me for attention a lot I think.
It is scary to me. Really makes me think.
This song
(I’d shared it with HG bc it has great relevance to me being here, no idea if he’d care about it, but that’s ok : ) I can be overly emotioanal),
reminds me of that and of a lot of the women here who talk and want to know things.
I think SM is brilliantly insightful here.
I also had an empathic grandma that hugged me constantly!
She was a teacher. She was my father’s mother and my father was physically affectionate. His father was an abusive alcoholic though.
That is so awesomeTwilight!!!
K
Haha I could have done with out his last message. I have sat back and thought about my life with him, I will have to say it took a long time for the anger I felt towards him to finally be put to rest, like within the past 3 years and it has been dead what will be 9 years in two months. My youngest made sure I didn’t have access to his ashes because I was going to find the deepest pit I could find in the middle of Texas and be rid of him and no one will ever know where he was. That was his fear to be buried where he would be forgotten. The UMR and Greater didn’t put me through the hell that man did, they were no walk in the park either.
Texas Twilight (the Lone Star State)
Anger is a very strong emotion and those feelings can take a long time to fade. I think it is ok to throw his ashes into the deepest pit you can find, if that will make you feel better. Narcissists are not a walk in the park (more like a walk in the Abyss/Mariana Trench) and they each bring their own personal hell to fruition at our expense, some worse than others.
We are very lucky that we have found our way out of that craziness.
Hello K
Texas Twilight that made me smile
I visited Texas for 6 months I vowed never to complain about the hottest humid day here in Virginia ever again. San Antonio was by far the worst experience of hot and humid. And the cockroach I saw, I swear he was going to grab me and drag me down this crack in the dry parch ground from which I think I saw the lights coming in in China when I glimpsed down it.
You know everything is bigger or deeper in Texas. 😂😂😂
Twilight
Not everything is bigger in Texas. I knew a Texan…………
NarcAngel
Maybe he just had a very cold shower, I have heard cold showers shrink
Twilight
No. He was as hot as he could be, and unfortunately as small as well. I bet there was more “cock” in that roach you saw.
NA and Twilight, I’ll never feel the same about cockroaches. Or Palmetto bugs as the big ones Twilight references are called here. (The visual is cracking me up.)
And to think, all this time, I thought y’all were talking about belt buckles! Hehe 😉
NarcAngel
Thanks for that imagery by the way. That not just made me turn bright red, yet laugh and feel guilty for doing such. Poor Texan….
LOL, NA. That gave me a real belly laugh.
OMG! That cockroach story sent chills up me. I loathe and detest them. They would survive a nuclear holocaust.
Twilight
Texas Twilight does have a nice ring to it. Ok, so you are a Virginian which is Old Dominion, got it. My friend relocated to San Antonio for work and all I remember him saying was: Texas is huge. Cockroaches are quite large down south and I heard that they fly in Florida (Palmetto bug). Thank God I live in the Bay State with normal cockroaches and less heat.
K
Shhh Don’t tell anyone I was actually born a northerner.
I had some interesting times in Texas.
Pssst…your secret is safe with me,Twilight. Hmmm, is “interesting times” a euphemism for nefarious and wicked?
K
Ha ha…..that trip no.
I have had some “interesting times” in New Mexico and Arizona thou.
Twilight
Did it involve “Breaking Bad”? When I was in New Mexico I felt like breaking bad, however, I visited Better Call Saul’s office and the carwash instead.
K
I have never watched Breaking Bad.
Twilight
If you get a chance give it a whirl, you might like it.
Twilight, I had to break in (badly) to say that you must watch Breaking Bad!! Totally binge worthy.
I had to check a few of the boxes- which indicates the messy status the relationship was in. I had tried to walk away several times. I had stated clearly that emotionally she cannot meet my needs. I said this to her because I never felt any kind of emotional bond in my heart. I heard words and sex was all the intimacy… my intuition felt a ringing falseness Whenever I felt true joy welling up in myself I felt it would hit a brick wall and just bounce off of her. That’s what you call ‘soul crushing ‘ i believe. I never ignored it but just pushed it down and tried to figure her out. She never made any comments or effort to indicate she would like to change her lack of emotional participation-I just assumed that meant that she knows she couldn’t change it or I guess I’ve learned perhaps she has no desire to change it. So I think we both had a foot out the door but she was still acting how she always did-I was trying to disentangle. She got very angry and extra cold because I was in the way when her new supply appeared in her life so I was very quickly discarded. But in a very childish dishonest way. For validation I am hoping to see the end of her new relationship -But it’s all a matter of how much bullshit this new person will take and how much emotional awareness the new person hasOr expects in a relationship.
@Kate W – EXACTLY. Whatever was said, it didn’t feel right or true, there was just a blank. “Ringing falseness….soul crushing…,” yes. Once I was complaining about the state of our relationship and he said, “I’m not going to change myself to fix you.” Not that I needed fixing (even though I believed then that there was something very wrong with me that he couldn’t love me), the point being that THAT was one thing that was true then and stayed true throughout our relationship. One truth….the rest portentious comments and/or lies….
NG – general question. What is the purpose of your polls? To see if we have learned any insight or growth in handling our narc relationships? Is it to know which information to future publish for our further enlightenment? Is it for research? Just curious…. thanks.
Who is this NG?
Narc God?
Ha ha very good.
Phew, I see happy times ahead again.
LOL, Lou!!!
MB
That made me laugh.
Narc God.
Only one man could fill those shoes HG.
Sorry HG!!
HappyTimes, I referred to HG as HR by mistake. Human Resources he is!
Oh not HR, for the love of all things narcissist, don’t give me those initials!
It was a typo, HG. I won’t do it again. Promise. I know how everyone feels about HR.
Ha ha, then all is well.
Phew
For what it’s worth. I love HR. It’s one of my many mad skills!
For me, HR also stands for Human Rights. I guess that does not make it better for you HG.
“For the sake of all that is evil and narc, Lou, down with Human Rights too!”
Lou, I think anything with the word ‘human’ in it would be a problem. Maybe he would like Hit and Run.
HG
Hahaha..”for the love of all things narcissist”…
Once I called you HD..(typo)..mind you it does stand for hghi definition…perhaps not such a typo there eh? Haha!
Ha, ha, HG! HR isn’t that bad. My exhusband worked in HR for years. He hated it at first, but then settled into the niche of being the one to dress down the slackers and do all the firing. He sort of enjoyed that, although he did quit that job to go to law school. He really enjoys prosecuting people! Lol!
What’s wrong with HR? Not your thing?
I would think it’s too ‘human’ and allegedly empathic, MB. HR never did much for me except try to make me record my ‘holiday absences’ and announce a special pay rise that was piddling, as it turned out.
Well, that was a very spontaneous reaction…I can imagine it was a highly cringing and shuddering reaction but spontaneous indeed.
You should have gone with the Narc God thing! Lol!
Hi again HG, Mr Tudor, Sir!!!! OMG, just saw the trail of responses – MB and company wittily to the rescue, thanks! If you have recovered from the ribbing HG, could you respond to my original ask or is this subject to a moratorium? I hope you are having a good day….
Uh, the end was kind of long and drug out. The mental end came after she was a year+ in hospital. She came home for a year, acted a complete ass. Wouldn’t bathe, would eat right, overdosed her self on her meds, wouldn’t do anything for herself. Tried locking the paid help ( those I was paying) out of the house, then tried bribing them, tried manipulating them. Lied to everyone, family friends, doctors , nurses, caregivers and help. Gave all her money away. Would care for pets. Intentionally broke or screwed up everything we put in place, via hospital directions, as a condition of her return home. Claimed we were abusing her, claimed we moved into her home ( yeah, a crappy 30 yr old trailer! ). You name it, she did it. One day she pushed too far. I grabbed her by the jaw and told her very quietly ( I’m a yeller) that I was going to twist her head off. After that she quit talking to me. Shortly after she got a serious infection in her foot. She hid it from everyone including doctors until it was so bad she almost lost her leg. I was her representative and she had been deemed incompetent, but managed to convince a doctor to do surgery and save her leg completely unbeknownst to us. We found out after the surgery, the next day! After that I didn’t contact her. She and doctors set up nursing home etc. I just shut her life down. Cleaned out trailer, sold her belongings, took to her what she needed. Hubby stepped up to be power of attorney and her neighbors or maybe siblings are being health care representatives, I dont know. Hubby writes the check every month from her account. I’m out of it except for an occasional call from someone who I harshly tell to contact nursing home and leave me alone. It’s been 2 yrs. There was more games and crap, but it’s not going through. To say she almost ran us, and several others, to death is an understatement. One neighbor, who was on a walker, that she would send to the store daily, sometimes more, actually did die. He had a heart attack on the way to the store! For her, I dont know. I warned him. We took groceries weekly to her. I warned him.
Thank you for sharing this summary. For me, it was such a relief to know that my reactions to the 50+ years of provocation make me human rather than the monster I felt like. Also, it provides clarity that there does exist a truth no matter the lies told to and by whomever.
E&L, I can’t tell you I’m over my mother, but I can tell you, you aren’t a monster for being pissed off. Everyone has a breaking point. That doesn’t make you a monster. In 2003, knowing nothing about narcissism, I sat down with her and talked through our entire lives together. My decision was to kill or cure the relationship, knowing that she was getting older and needed to set her self up for old age. If I killed it, then she had time to find helpers for herself. We talked nightly at her kitchen table for almost a month. I thought I did the work, set the boundaries, laid the foundation for a new positive respectful relationship. She took every heartfelt word and used it to try and break me on every level. She took her bitch witch claws and sunk them into every crack and crevice ( most of which she made) of who I am, what I believe and everything I hold dear, then tried to rip me apart. She almost succeeded. I am alive for only one reason, those cats she abused. I needed to save them. Hubby is strong, he can survive without me. The cats couldn’t. It took every thing I ever learned about handling animals, all my triage and rehabber skills and a lot of help from hubby and a neighbor deal with all of them. But we got it done and they are no longer a breeding colony and are as well as I can make them. You are not a monster, but there are monsters out there. Be safe. Be strong, Be smart.
IdaNoe, much like you, the authenticity and innocence of animals is what has kept me going. My first “son” is a rescue Pom, who is 9 yrs old. Three more foster-fail adoptees, the neighbors declawed, abandoned cat, and a feral I TNRed, and my brood is a well cared for and loved family. It is very kind and generous of you to care for the feral fiasco. The cats are better off because you acknowledged that they mattered, too. I am glad to know there are people like you on this planet.
E&L , thank you. And a huge thank you for doing the TNR! You’ve lifted my spirits today. My Matrinarc is going into hospice and it’s a very scary time for me, as her flying monkeys are beginning to appear again. Your kind words life my heart. Thank you. Be safe, be strong, be smart.
I found some documents tying him to illegal activities, and asked him about them. He said he would explain later about them and not to contact him at all until I hear from him. Meanwhile, scary people started questioning me. I tried to talk to him and he threatened to give me the silent treatment and block me if I wrote/spoke another word, so I did and told him goodbye and why. He blocked me everywhere. Silence for about 6 months, BUT now I have discovered he has hacked into every account (Facebook, Yahoo, Linkedin) and is popping up in my accounts and where he is suppose to be blocked. I texted him to ask what is going on and he told me to stay the F away from him and that I am crazy and if I say one more word he is filing charges on ME for harassment! I feel trapped!
CLC – Did you save copies of those documents? PLEASE tell me you did! Turn them over to the police. 20 some yrs ago I had a lesser use me to steal from someone. I sincerely didn’t know what he was up to. I found documents and cleared myself. He did jail time. COVER YOUR ASS! PLEASE! They’ll hang you out for their crimes.
IdaNoe
That is so true about them hanging others out for their crimes. There are many women spending time in prison for their boyfriends/husbands drug dealing. Quite a few deliberately take the fall out of misguided love.
He claimed in-person (after a fight, naturally) he was leaving for the week to “give you time to cool off, we’ll talk about this later.” At the end of the week, rather than bother with that apparently all-important conversation, he tossed his set of keys in the vague direction of my door and four merciful years passed without a word.
“We’ll talk about this later” – Later turned to never and I didn’t pursue it, making excuses for him and whatever drama he was “suffering” at the time. After one incident in January or February this year, he said that I “lose my mind” and start something every three months. Not coincidentally, that was the length of time between his moving goalposts of “it will be better later” – again, a later that never came.
We were married nearly twenty years. The lights weren’t turned on for me about his narcissism until he was arrested and I found out that he had been living a completely separate life with other men and had been stealing from family and friends to “make a living”. Also my eyes were opened to his brainwashing and manipulation after finding out about all his lies and infidelity.
His arrest was the end of the relationship, even though he continues to fight to stay married. It’s been 18 months now and he still won’t sign divorce papers and still wants half of the property and child custody rights (even though he’s in jail and will be there for at least 40 years!)
I GHOSTED THE FUCKER! It didn’t feel good at the time, but now it feels awesome.
It was mostly an online relationship, but we did meet/make out once. It lasted over a year, and I was very attached. After coming here, reading about the narc cycle, I knew without a doubt what he was and knew it had to end. He must have sensed my distance because he went fairly hard into pursuit mode, talking about meeting up again. I said, “We can talk about it when I get back from dinner.” (I was going out with some friends.) I never went back. It feels good that I vanished on him when he was in pursuit mode and thought he still had me under his thumb.
That said, I felt guilty at first, second guessed the decision for weeks, maybe months, but as the addiction finally broke, there was more clarity.
Mary
Good job Mary. The thought of him pissed at you for using his own playbook against him in having the last word and then disappearing can be your thought fuel and closure against your abuser. Keep it locked down though because if you ever relent and resume contact, you will pay heavily for it. Let that be your motivation no continue with no contact if nothing else.
NarcAngel:
Thank you for your comment. Yes, having that last word will be thought fuel for years to come. LOL I know it would be ugly if I ever resumed contact. Months before my No Contact, I had been silent a few days (triggered by him saying something humiliating). He used my disappearance against me several times after, saying I had hurt him and made him pull away and reach out to someone else. I knew from reading here that it was all triangulation and blame shifting. His humiliating comments escalated. I’m sure that was payback for wounding him.
So yes, knowing the hell storm that would come if I broke NC is motivating. So is my pride in wanting to keep the upper hand.
Mary
LOL, Mary. ‘I went out to dinner and never came back.’ Awesome.
Or the immortal “I gotta take a piss” from Mark Wahlberg’s “Rock Star” film. I’m snarfing just thinking about what the reaction would have been!!
SMH: Yep! LOL
Ex narc was ghosting, word salad, disappearing. I asked if he was seeing someone and this was denied but he ran a list of names of people he had recently been seen with – her name amongst them. I asked around and friends, neighbours, colleagues confirmed his behaviour. His ego was such it didn’t matter that others saw him. I was shocked, in denial, but foolishly hoped it wasn’t true. Then she sent one of her friends to tell me; she was obviously impatient to get me out of the way. The smearing from both of them was unfounded, illogical, unnecessary. Such confusing painful times. They were both narcs, who deserved each other.
Narc had been out of town, and I had been home watching my stepson (also NPD) who was 15 (and a nightmare), so I couldn’t leave him unattended while his dad was out of town . I couldn’t let either of them get wind of it, so as soon as my stepson left for school on that last day that he was due back in town, the movers arrived. We raced the clock packing and moving my stuff. After they left, I cleaned the now-practically-empty house from top to bottom and took a ton of pics for documentation. Within 5 minutes of finishing, my stepson arrived home from school. I told him, and then I left, calling my husband from the car. He didnt pick up or return my call. He arrived home about an hour later to find me gone. I filed for divorce the next morning. That started a whole new chapter of vitriol.
That was epic LL!
EPIC is right!!
I did the same thing – waited for him to go to work and then ghosted with everything I could. I’d started a month or so before the I made the final move. I took some losses, but things can be replaced. I had already started blocking him on email, then blocked entirely on every platform the same day. Not a word since.
He hasn’t tried to hoover me yet. HG assures me it’s only a matter of time. I may have made it too difficult for him to bother – time will tell.
Excellent kelleygurl116! I love it when an empath ghosts the narc; poof! Ha ha ha!
It ended in chaos but I ended it by email. I said very sweetly you are unhappy but I cannot fix it because I am not the cause of it. Your marriage is a joke and I don’t get it. If you leave your marriage, we shall see. If you don’t, I am sure you will find another IPSS. I don’t respect it but it is not my life.
He hoovered. I responded. I inadvertently wounded him. I went supernova in response to a ST. I made him come over and delete all of our emails in front of me. That was the last direct contact. It has been 4 months now. He has indirectly hoovered (two LinkedIn visits and two fake FB profiles) but he has moved and we are permanently in different countries.
Hmmm. So today I read through a couple of hundred of my emails with MRN. He has been in my head because of the awful date. I don’t know what prompted me to read the emails, but I did. I did not get anxious, my heart did not race, I was not tempted to write to him. I just read and read and read our conversations. I realized finally, for the first time, how incurably emotionally flat he is. I tend to doubt he could have been different, given what I have seen, including on his public IG (didn’t look at that, but I saw enough of it before). It was not me at all. Maybe he could sustain a fullness of being for a day or occasionally, but there is no way in hell he is capable of being more than half a human because it would be impossible to maintain such a flatness for two years without a break. I am satisfied that if I broke NC or he did, it would just be more of the same. I no longer have that hope that he is capable of change.
He used to talk a lot about being ‘close’ to someone. First to IPPS, who was cold to him during the early stages of their reconciliation, then to someone with whom he was having what he called an ’emotional relationship’ (CIPSS or CIPPS) but whom he also told me he would have left within a year because she wanted to have children and he didn’t want more (how is that for devotion?). Then he would make pronouncements that he felt close to me. He would use this term ‘close’ all the time as if it were something he was trying to achieve, and knew should be a goal, but also knew that he could not do it.
He must know there is something wrong with him. He told me when we met that he only skims the surface (I know – red flag but remember I only wanted a fling). He told me that people other than me have said that he is like two different people. He told me that he might have Aspergers, and he told me that he upsets people. He told me all of these things at different times and I was unable to put it all together. Of course it would not matter if I had. It wouldn’t have changed anything. But it is satisfying knowing there was nothing I could have done to help him or to change anything about our relationship.
I don’t know why I am writing this here but at this moment it does feel like something of a revelation. He’s just a really super frustrating person because he is constitutionally incapable of sustained engagement with anyone. If he were capable of it, I would have seen it and he never showed that he could do it. I have this record of our whole relationship in those emails. Thank goodness I kept them even if I made him delete his copies.
We’ll see how I feel tomorrow…
SMH,
To keep up my reputation as Bruja buena:
“ I have this record of our whole relationship in those emails. Thank goodness I kept them even if I made him delete his copies”.
It sounds good that you have come to the realisation of certain things about him by reading them . Wouldn’t it be better now to delete ALL the e-mails?
Keeping them and reading them again only takes you steps backwards in your process . Press the delete button, it just takes a millisecond to do that but will give you back something long lasting and invaluable : your peace of mind.
You won’t regret it.
By the way: never mind ( I know you don’t) the harsh comments that someone has written about you. My interactions with you reveal a completely different person than the one described.
It goes without saying that the true colours of a person come through sooner or later. It is just a question of time. You certainley know the saying in Spanish: “Las cosas siempre caen por su propio peso” .
I hope you feel better tomorrow.
Abrazos domingueros.
Hola SuperXena,
Gracias por tu apoyo! I don’t know how that whole thing started but I woke up this morning to such hatred! I think I was trying to support Clarece – I can’t even remember the whole sequence. But I mentioned helado de fresa and all hell broke loose. I will never eat that stuff again!!! (I am not upset at all. I had a good day!)
Here’s a story about emails: a lover eons ago ended up in jail (I might have mentioned him to you). I printed our emails when I switched services and kept everything in a folder, planning to write a story. Never did though he was definitely worthy of one. 12 years later, I was burning papers in the garden because I was moving. I tossed the whole folder into the fire and never thought about it again.
He and I are now in touch after 17 years NC. You know who prompted it? MRN – he mentioned spending time in a city that no one else I knew but that lover and I had ever been to. We had a lot of meaningful adventures (not in jail, thankfully) and we are close in a way that only happens with someone who has gotten under your skin. Nothing needs to be said.
MRN came into my life for a reason and he will either reappear or he won’t, but it will happen the way it is meant to happen. The emails don’t matter to that process and they will not prompt me to break NC. I have already forgotten about them. Sí, las cosas siempre caen … sin que hagamos nada!
Abrazos fuertes!
You are welcome SMH!
Abrazos.
Hi HG (Sir) I’m a new commenter but long time reader…..
I finally had enough of the endless bouts silent treatment that he doled out to me for no reason at all, over the whole 5 yr relationship. I did everything he wanted, bent backwards to try to please him. So when he decided to dish it out again, because I missed his phone call, I decided enough was enough and changed my phone numbers. I have been NC ever since, that’s 3 months now and counting….I’m sure he had other women that he could now run too…Whatever, good riddance.
Welcome on board MG.
This is my first relationship where it’s not so clean cut.
I wrote an email to say it was over and took the blame for everything because by then I knew what he was and I wanted out without any trouble.
That’s how I ended it.
How did he end it?
Perhaps by parading his next conquest in front of me at the pub the week before and denying we were in a relationship whilst they laughed and found that funny. I was humiliated and confused!
I knew then he could piss off! But it still took me time to get out. (Did he demote me to IPSS or DLS without me knowing?) (I had so many silent treatments I honestly didn’t know if I was coming or going!!)
We went back to his flat after, and I left the next morning. Towards the end I just never knew where I stood.
The following week I visited him, I wanted answers, he was emotionless. I’d had enough. Literally enough.
I got up and left and when I got home I wrote him the letter.
No contact by me since October.
He has hoovered various times Benign and Malign.
*** This is the most confusing relationship I’ve ever had. He is a self confessed Sociopath but not until after we split ***
I realise I am spending FAR TOO MUCH time thinking about this over and over and over.
I’m driving myself crazy searching for answers and reasons.
There are times I’m strong – and glad to be rid of him – and then there are times I miss him (or the Golden Periods) when I wonder if I will ever be loved like that again.
I’ve started to imagine conversations, things I’d say, if we were face to face.
I’m fighting the compulsion to have an honest face to face conversation now that we are no longer together. That’s what I’m battling now.
I could easily get in my car and drive to London. But I won’t.
Hold on to that conviction. You might have a conversation eventually, but it won’t be honest. He’s allergic, you see.
There’s no way you will ever have an honest face to face conversation. He’s not capable of it.
I told my husband that I had to leave for my own mental health and moved into our vacation home. He respected that and left me alone. No other women that I ever knew about.
Two years later told him I was divorcing him unless he was willing to go to couples therapy (praying he’d say “no”!). He was not willing so had about as amicable a divorce as possible. No harassment, never went no contact.
Looking back on it, I believe he was smart enough to realize that we couldn’t continue to live together without it destroying me and he wanted to keep me out there as a fuel supply. If that was his plan, it has worked well.
Windstorm can I ask if he still uses you for a fuel supply? If so, have you figured out why you let him or why it benifits you? Your story sounds somewhat like mine except we were not marrried. I am secondary. I think he realized that I would be a dead fuel supply if we didn’t distance ourselves (actually I figured that out from what I learned here and didn’t want to become numb to his ways). I just wish I knew why I feel I need him in my life.
Mercy
Yes he still uses me as a fuel supply. That doesn’t bother me at all. He calls me about every other day and we go out somewhere once or twice a week. I was just 16 when we got engaged and had never dated anyone else. We were married 30 years and have 4 grown children and 8 1/2 grandchildren together.
He is a greater cerebral and never did the lovebombing, romance and certainly no great sex. As far as I know he has never dated any other woman or had any affairs. Sex is just not how he gets his fuel.
Our relationship works because of this. I would have nothing to do with him if he was in a relationship with another woman. I don’t think that would be fair to her and I would be very insulted if he expected that of me.
I do not “need” him at all. And there is certainly no sex. He used sex to dominate and humiliate me and there’s no way I’d ever go there again! There is no way I could ever live with him again, either. If I’m around him more than about 3 days, he can’t stop himself from drawing negative fuel and I can’t keep from deliberately wounding him.
But we both enjoy the other’s company and conversation. We have so much history and understand each other very well (though I can imagine him laughing at the idea of me understanding him!). Plus we have the family in common. We both think of the other as a permanent part of our family.
This relationship benefits me because it provides me with a highly intelligent person to talk to, and an interesting person to go places with. I’ve never dated anyone else either, and quite frankly I have little tolerance for other men.
I guess my standard for male companionship is my exhusband – very smart, well-educated, logical, well-informed, great understanding of human nature, great sense of humor, and willing to let me keep my autonomy. I have yet to meet anyone else like that.
WS, I admire your inner strength so much. You carry yourself with such dignity and are so self aware. Plus you know exactly what traits in a man appeal to you, so why waste time when so few would measure up.
Have a very Happy Birthday this weekend! I hope the Ex does something nice for you! 😉🎂
Clarece
Thank you so much! That is very sweet that you can take my weirdnesses and make them sound so good!
Very Happy Birthday weekend to you, too! My empathic middle son is coming up to Kentucky to spend a day with me! I’m really excited!! I’ve not seen him very often since I was in Japan.
May we both have great birthday weekends! (And everyone else who’s bday is this weekend!)
🎈🎉🎊🎁🎂❤️
Thank you for the birthday wishes WS! 🎂💕
You’re welcome, Clarece. I sent you a message on another comment. I truly hope the rest of your weekend is great! ❤️
Windstorm, thanks for responding. It sounds like you have very strong ties to him. I’m sure your children find it very normal that you have remained friends and they also fill your emotional needs that he can’t. My children do not approve of my relationship with the narc but he is not their father. They see my struggle.
There are times I feel like I could have that type of relationship with my narc. He is also very intelligent and the conversation is never boring. Like you, after a few days I’m completely exhausted because I sense he is trying to pull negative fuel from me… And then there is the sex. It was/is (been a while) very good and it’s hard to deny him. He’s very persuasive and sadly it was the foundation of our relationship for many years. My trouble is that I want to date and be attracted to other men but I know I can’t unless I give up the friendship with the narc.
I’m very independent so I don’t nesessarily “need” him but he does fill a space in my life. The thought of searching for someone else is so unappealing. I’d rather pluck my eyelashes one by one rather than sift through the plethora of men only to find another lying manipulator. I wish i could order a perfectly normal, intelligent, attractive and loyal man online. It’d really take care of alot of my problems 😀
Mercy
I know what you mean about how unappealing trying to find a good man is. Shame we can’t order one off Amazon!
Mercy,
I felt the way you do and tried to be friends with MRN after I ended the FR and said we should not be in contact at all (I know I should have just gone poof but I did not know all of this at the time). After about two months of his hoovers, to which I responded, I wounded him inadvertently and he gave me an ST (acronym for silent treatment always sounds like an STD to me but thankfully he never gave me one of those).
I then went supernova, which I now realize was what he wanted because he had been unable to extract any fuel from me after the FR ended. We don’t share children and were never married (I was IPSS), so there was nothing keeping us together. It was just as exhausting trying to be friends with him as it was trying to be IPSS so I am basically NC now.
Like you, I am independent but he filled an important space. He is smart, funny, our chemistry was off the charts, etc, and there isn’t much out there, sad to say. Honestly I would still give anything for MRN to be what I thought he was but that’s not going to happen so I have decided to bite the bullet and ‘date’ again. First one was a loser but I’m not put off yet!
Good luck!
SMH, I’m very curious about your dating. I don’t hear much from other readers about their dating experiences after escape. I have gone on a few dates myself even during my entanglement with the narc. He never made any commitments to me and I made it clear with no commitment I am free to do as I please. Problem is I never gave it a chance and I know N new this and loves that I cant move on.
Now I’m ready and willing to date but it seems more like a job. I miss the excitement and anticipation of meeting someone new that could potentially be ”the one”. I used to work hard on my appearance, dress to impress and was always on my A game. I miss the butterflies when I caught a glimpse of someone I was crushing on. Truly I haven’t had a crush on a man since I met my N 7 years ago.
I no longer wish he was the man I thought or wanted him to be .I’ve come to terms with the fact that he does not exist. I know that the issues of moving on are no longer about him. He is a thief and robbed me of those innocent girly feelings but I know that I am the one in control of my happiness and it is not his responsibility (nor is he capable) of saving me.
Have you reach a point in your recovery that you find yourself excited to meet someone new? My fear is that I will always feel the black cloud hovering over me in all of my future dating experiences.
I should be clear that N is still very much in the picture but he is just filling space for now until im ready to end it. He’s not ever going to let me go unless he has to.
Hi Mercy,
I share very similar feelings about dating (or extreme lack there of). No excitement, no anticipation there can be one for me. I have trust issues with men through the roof now. And we are coming round to the holidays which will be here before you know it. Since my divorce 7 years ago and then 5 year entanglement with JN, I absolutely dread my birthday and the holidays and each one is something to get thru the day and mark off until next year.
I’m actually relieved this weekend the focus is on my parent’s 50th wedding anniversary and my birthday is in the background of all of that. Having a nice, quiet dinner with my daughter tonight and a movie.
I get very unsettled always seeing memes or support groups saying we all deserve love and when the time is right it will happen. Yes, each of us as humans do deserve that. In reality, the older we get and we are all creatures of habits with our jobs, kids, families, the potential that we will actually have this major turnaround and the “right” one is going to materialize seems very slim to me. Days blur into weeks blur into months. Not all of us have the financial means to just start traveling or chasing dreams or bucket list items. So yeah, diminished hope and excitement for sure. Duty and obligation seem to be on the forefront.
Aww Clarece.
I am smiling to myself as I sit here working. I was asked out on a date at 8:00 a.m. this morning for this afternoon but I haven’t heard from the guy, which is just as well because 1) I don’t feel like going out; 2) I haven’t met him yet so it doesn’t matter; and 3) he is blonde but I don’t like blonde men (sorry HG). Always an upside!! Also, I had a meh date on Thursday night with someone who then insisted that we would be so good for each other! Not! So there you go. I am laughing anyway.
Let’s see, my birthday this year fell post escape and towards the end of my supernova phase – three days before I made MRN come over and delete all of our email correspondence. He probably had me in tears over email on my birthday. I don’t remember. In any case, I didn’t want to see any men at all during that time – I was quite sick of them and I usually like men a lot – as friends, as colleagues, as lovers — so a few girlfriends and I went out for drinks. That was it. Not even sure where my male child was.
A month later, tragedy struck my family and I acquired a daughter (my niece). Still feeling my way through that. I asked her about her love life and she said ‘I’m too busy and my standards are too high.’ When I was her age (22) I was always attached to a guy, several of whom tried to halt my career in its tracks. I’ve gotten way more satisfaction out of my career and my kid than I have out of any romantic relationship.
Out of maybe three men I truly loved, one died in 2010 and one is gay. Also, someone I was dating on and off starting from before narc came along, died of a heart attack right after the family tragedy. Strike that one off my list too! I am also in the middle of a divorce. Several men from my past have reappeared and in no case was I tempted at all by them. I have a clean slate now and am excited about it. Who knows what will happen!
Maybe I am an optimist but I believe that whatever is meant to be, will be, and with the right person. Otherwise, we get love where we find it. Go out and dance, go to the movies, have drinks with your girlfriends and dinner with your kids. Enjoy life, celebrate your parents’ anniversary, and have a Happy Birthday! We are all right there with you. xo
Hi SMH! So very touched and thank you so much for your kindness! You cracked me up about wanting to get out of the date with 8 AM Blonde guy! Reminds me of the memes that go along the lines of “when you make plans ahead of time to go out, but the moment arrives and you don’t want to leave your bed, Netflix, and the chocolate and salty snacks surrounding you propped up on your pillows.” Lol
I really enjoy your comments here and following your story and insights.
Hugs to you!
Yes, Clarece, nothing beats chocolate and Netflix in bed! Not even the blonde guy next to you 🙂 (unless he’s really ripped of course). Now I think it’s time for the gym. There are lots of ripped guys there, all willing to help with free weights! xo
Well you go enjoy a fruit smoothie at the gym with those guys helping with the weights…😉
SMH
👍 Love your comment to Clarece. Fabulous. (cant vote on like button hence this)
Oh, Clarece!
It hurt me reading this! I live for any excuse to celebrate. I hate to hear that you dread your birthdays. Maybe because ours is the same day, but I’ve been imagining you being as happy as I am this weekend.
You’re still a Spring chicken, maybe it will come with time. I went thru a long period where I dreaded Mother’s Day and my birthday because I worried that no one would get me anything or even remember. I felt sorry for myself. Then 14 years ago I realized that I was depending on others to provide my happiness and this would always lead to disappointment.
It was Mother’s Day 14 years ago when I bought myself my first MD gift – a Schipperke puppy. From then on I took charge of making my own happiness. I got myself gifts, BD cakes, took myself out to movies – for every holiday. My happiness is MINE. Nothing anyone else does or doesn’t do can destroy it. Now, if others remember me and do things to make my special days more special – it’s just a wonderful surprise!
Yes, Clarece, we do all deserve love, and the time is right now! But we don’t have to wait to get it from others. Love yourself enough to take charge of your own happiness! Think about something you’d like, but have put off getting and Amazon it today. When that smiling package shows up on your porch, get excited about opening your birthday gift to yourself! Take your daughter out to a park or a movie and celebrate! You are special and your birthday is special. Summon up your positivity and celebrate it! 🎉🎈🎁🎂🎊❤️
I’m lighting a candle for you and sending you positive birthday energy!
⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️❤️
Hi WS! Well I certainly treasure that special birthday candle from you. Big hugs to you fine Lady.
I am having a dose of a pity party aren’t I? Lol
Oh I’ll be fine once I’m up and moving with my family. I actually did order myself back in spring one of those Stitch Fix boxes that come full of clothes by a stylist just for you to arrive this weekend. A little Happy Birthday to me that I forgot when the box arrived yesterday. Haha
I appreciate your sentiments.
My mom is still lighting candles at church (Catholic) that the right man swoops in. There’s an undercurrent I deal with that probably polarizes it. Lol
I don’t want to come across that I don’t appreciate my daughter, family and close girlfriends. I do. But missing out on adult love and companionship does affect me. I’ve been single too long, my friends have their families and significant others so there isn’t special get togethers for bdays or holidays with them the last few years.
My daughter and I went to a new Mongolian BBQ restaurant last night, did some shopping,and watched a movie at home.
Today, my whole family is going hiking at a State Park, then out for a steak dinner for my parent’s anniversary. So it’ll be a nice day outdoors and being active.
Happy Birthday to you too again! 💕🎂
Clarece
Honestly telling how you feel is not a “pity party.” I hate that term. It has been used against me by narcissists throughout my life. Never ever think that anything you ever say will make me think those hateful words!
I also know that you appreciate all the people in your life – even when we are annoying or embarrassing like your mother lighting all those candles. You know that we all care about you. And I’d love to hear that you eventually meet Mr Right and have your HEA. But I also know the pain and heartache of realizing that my best ever candidate for Mr Right is a narcissist.
Glad you had that gift surprise you! And I’m sure your weekend will be full of happiness, because anyone as caring and empathic as you has to have many people who love her.
Hugs ❤️
We are both loved. It’s a Sept 2nd thing!!! Lol You’re the absolute best WS!
Mercy,
Mine was not going to let me go either unless he had to, so I did it myself over and over. He never really ended it with me.
I date my escape from January when, after 6 months NC, during which he stalked me the whole time, he tried to get me back into the FR. I said no even though I still had feelings. Suddenly, I saw what he was doing even though I could not yet put a label on it because I had not found this site. I think had I found this site sooner, I would have been out sooner. I am not saying you are wrong to keep yours hanging around but I do think GOSO is best. It will be hard for you to move on if narc is still hanging around reeling you back all the time. I only started dating again two days ago! 🙂
I know exactly what you mean about stealing the innocence – the joie de vivre – and smashing it to pieces. But I had to take a hard look at myself because I am not a young girl at the mercy of an older man. I played a role in it too.
I waded into dating during the FR but only attached to one person, who died in June – we had our first date while I was still married (pre-narc) but on the way to separation. I live in two different countries, though, so it would stop and start and I suspect he was also a narc. Lots of fun but not good partner material.
Otherwise, I would generally have nice dates – I like meeting people – but except for the guy who died, I only went on more than one date with two people because I’d put walls up since narc was there – he was like my safety net. One of those people I flaked on and the other was controlling.
I don’t really date anyway – I am always just with someone – so this is quite new for me too. It’s best to not fear being alone and be very clear about what you want. Luckily, I have kids, don’t like being married (been there twice) and don’t mind being alone. If narc were normal I would have stayed his affair partner forever. I was happy in that role. I told him I thought we’d be sneaking around forever between visits with our future grandchildren.
I am not looking for another married man, however (and wasn’t when I met narc – he lied about being divorced), because married men who have affairs are all unhappy or fucked up in one way or another. I am looking for someone who has their shit together and is happy with their life. Not so easy.
I think we all have our personal situations – different ages, some with kids and grandkids, some with neither, some married themselves, etc. There is no one size fits all. My overall advice would be to just force yourself to get out there over and over. I hope something here helps you!
SMH
Love your post. Thank you. You are so right. Resonates..I need to force myself out more really, ,definately.
It’s not easy, Debbie! As I think Clarece posted, sometimes you just want to sit in bed surrounded by your laptop and chocolate covered pretzels!
Honestly, I am not even sure why I am doing it. I don’t feel that compelled to be with someone but I feel that I should feel compelled, if that makes any sense. Anyway, that’s what my therapist is for – to tell me that 50% of marriages are for social reasons only (not that I am looking to get married again)!
SMH
You are right it isn’t easy.. and yes I think a lot of people get married it’s expected etc I’ve never been married.
I’ve had the opportunity on a few occasions but I admit I called a stop.. I also have no children.. but that’s another story.
Funny you should mention chocolate-covered pretzels… I have a standing joke with a guy at work I go over to him and pretend to chat him up and say to him “sayyyyy…ugot any chocolate covered pretzels?”
Why lol? because he asked me what my chat up line was previously and I said I didn’t have one ..I don’t do ‘lines’ I said. We were joking around quite a bit and he said come on say something as if you’re chatting me up… I’m English so I said something in a kind of very bad attempt to do an American accent the thing about the pretzels… I’ve no idea why or where it came from but we were laughing raucously..
It’s become a little bit of a joke now with a few people ewho sit around us and we are all kind of saying it…
it’s so bizarre and really made me laugh that you included that in your comment what a coincidence…hahaha ..
Small world😊
DebbieWolf,
You have Clarece to thank for the chocolate covered pretzels! It would never occur to me and I am American (though I live in the UK quite a bit).
My exH is British but I think I prefer American men. (Americas writ large – MRN is Canadian). Maybe you should look for an American guy in the UK. Lots of them there and they are suckers for a British accent, like the American women on this site who drool over HG because of his accent :).
I have this American friend who posts online that she is visiting London and wants someone to show her around, even though she lives in London. She does it everywhere! Most liberated woman I know, she won’t sleep with mm, and she gets plenty of responses. But I could never do that and she is looking for something different (also been married and has kids).
I’m sorry you did not have kids if you wanted them. Maybe you didn’t want them and maybe there is still time. I hope it all works out one way or another!
Clarece & SMH, Hi ladies I hope you are both having a good weekend. Happy Birthday Clarece, hopefully dinner with your daughter and your parents anniversary will change your outlook on this milestone and make you feel blessed for having another year to be with those you love
Clerece I too feel like you when I see these romantic post about true love and the right one etc and think those things just don’t exist. The relationship with the N has shown me that life isn’t memes and chick flicks. When I hear music and find myself thinking about the N I quickly turn it. I can’t allow myself to romanticize any aspect of that relationship. Even sad songs or fuck you songs bring out too much emotion and I will not let myself be tricked by emotion again (thank you HG). You said duty and obligation is on the forefront and in my case I’ll add projects. I’m a project person. I have to have a project all the time to feel a sense of accomplishment. Lately I’ve been taking it too far though. It seems that I pour myself into my projects as an excuse to lock myself away from everyone. This is something I have to find a balance with. The distraction is good but I’m walking the line of becoming permanently distracted.
SMH, I too would have been happy as a secondary source my whole life with the narc if he could give up the manipulation and senseless games. I don’t want to live with anyone and certainly don’t want to be married. My children are grown and I’ve been on my own for awhile now. I’d just like to find someone to share life experiences with. I don’t want someone to answer to or let a man be in control of my finances. This is where dating and my independence clash.
You are absolutely right, GOSO is the answer. I’m just not ready yet. I don’t know if that makes me a codependent or not. Is it possible to be an independent codependent? Maybe a hybrid co? Haha I have no idea why I stay. Probably part boredom and fear of finding someone new after all I know now.
Hopefully soon someone will post the secret recipe to recoup some of the innocence that the narc stole from us. I would love to hear stories of butterflies and starry eyes post Narc.
Take care
Stating you are not ready is the influence of emotional thinking.
Thank you for the birthday wishes Mercy! I did have a great night with my daughter. One of her earlier dance teachers, called us the real life Gilmore Girls. She is my rock and I feel very blessed to have this beautiful, sweet human in my life every day.
Mercy, This is me in a nutshell!! “I don’t want to live with anyone and certainly don’t want to be married. My children are grown and I’ve been on my own for awhile now. I’d just like to find someone to share life experiences with. I don’t want someone to answer to or let a man be in control of my finances. This is where dating and my independence clash.”
Here is what I decided: I either find someone to share with or I stay alone. Maybe I am lucky in that I have a lot of friends who are single in one way or another, so I never really feel different from most people I know. Also, my lifestyle is such that it would be difficult for anyone to really be with me and I am not ready to give that up. Maybe for the right person or maybe the right person will accept my lifestyle.
As for the song thing, I had that problem too and it kind of made me angry that I couldn’t listen to my music anymore. There are still a few songs that trigger me but that also passed and now I can listen.
It took me many tries to GOSO and I am not even sure that I am completely there yet. He was like a security blanket. In the end, I only succeeded after 6 months NC and taking a step back to watch his behavior without getting reinvolved. He did hoover. But then he moved. The distance makes it easier. It allowed me to reclaim my geographical space as well as the space in my head.
I did not find this site until post-escape, by the way. I don’t know if I would have left sooner had I found this site sooner, but it has helped immensely in dealing with the transition.
Hmm always making me think HG. If it is emotions that make me stay it’s not attached to hope anymore. Maybe habit? He has become strawberry ice cream to me (seems to be the topic of the day).
Maybe I fear the new emotions I will have to face if I move on. The current emotions are manageable.
Calrece, this made me very happy to see. I can feel your smile in your comment. I have three daughters and they are my strength as well.
Hi Clarece! I am too late with my birthday wishes for you, but still wishing you a wonderful new year with lots of freedom and surprises! 🎈🎁🍾
Very much appreciated Shesaw! I hope so too. Thank you!
Windstorm if Amazon added that feature I’d be a lifetime member. I already get giddy everytime I see that smiley face on my doorstep
Me, too, Mercy. I think I AM a lifetime member! I basically buy everything off Amazon or Walmart pickup. I never did like to shop and it’s 2 hours driving there and back to the nearest store. I love those smiley face boxes on my porch, too!
Funny how toilet paper and dish soap in a smiley face box can bring happiness in our lives 😁
Mercy
I think it’s because they’re in boxes – like gifts! I’d almost never gotten a gift in a box before Amazon. Even though I’ve paid for them, they still feel like presents to me. 😊
It is as if our ‘relationship’ never existed, which I guess on reflection is oh so true. I’m one of the lucky ones, civil, polite, professional but oh so cold!
Charlie-Chuckles – mine made it appear as though it never existed, too…even though we were seeing each other for a year. Then, upon close examination, none of his previous “relationships” appeared…as though wiped clean by him. HG told me it was facade management, control over me and his other appliances, and fuel. You mentioned your narc had “particular feelings” for you in another post. Mine said that too…but they can never really love or have relationships that last. Take care. xx
There was never a formal ‘It’s over’. He gradually disappeared from home. First occasionally sleeping somewhere else, then more regularly until not sleeping at home at all. Most of his clothes, books and other stuff is still here, and he pops in once a week or so to collect his mail. But I have learned that he is with someone else and they already have a baby, not that he has mentioned that to me! HG is that unusual that there is no official discard or disengagement?
No.
He’d disengaged a re engaged over and over again. I had enough. Slept with someone else. All sorts of trauma and drama. I’d always suspected other women around and I was right. Hope the NS is tougher than she looks but then, if she’s been willing to listen to tales of woe about a woman she’s never met and can’t work out he will be doing the same to her, she’s pretty stupid.
Ghosted without a word, moved out with no forwarding address, blocked on all platforms, zero contact since. 60 days and counting…
We divorced. He filed first.