A Very Murderous Narcissist – Analysis


Christopher or Chris Watts was recently charged with nine felonies including three counts of first degree murder. He is accused of murdering his wife Shanann and their two daughters, Bella aged 4 and Celeste, aged 3.

Originally, Watts claimed that his wife and two children had disappeared from their home. A family friend, Nickole Atkinson reported them missing on the Monday August 13 when Shanann Watts missed a doctor’s appointment and she was not responding to calls and texts. Ms Atkinson telephoned Chris Watts asking where his wife was, Watts apparently stated that he did not know where his wife or his children were.

Ms Atkinson assisted Watts in searching for the missing three. She stated that Watts did not cry or seem overly concerned and this caused her to believe that something was amiss.

Watts made several television appearances a day after the disappearance of his wife and children where he explained the apparent circumstances of how he learned they had disappeared and stated his wish for them to return. He stated that he and his wife had had an “emotional conversation” on the evening before his wife’s disappearance.

Friends and family of the Watts family expressed their understandable concerns about the well-being of the three who had disappeared, the fact that the Watts had a perfect family life (heavily documented through social media – something I shall return to) and their disbelief at how something like this could happen.

Approximately two days after having made these appearances, Watts allegedly explained to the police that he had told his wife that he wished to separate from her and she then strangled the two children. Watts stated he saw his wife strangling one of the children,Celeste on a baby monitor. He stated his other daughter, Bella was already blue and sprawled out on a bed. He stated in a fit of rage he then strangled his wife.

Shanann Watts’ body was found in a shallow grave near an oil tank. The bodies of the two children were found dumped in an oil tank. The location was where Watts worked, until he was recently fired by his employer. A drone had detected a bedsheet which had a pattern which matched pillowcases and a top sheet found in the bin in the kitchen at the Watts’ residence. This detection led to the discovery of the shallow grave and occurred prior to the apparent confession of Watts.

Extensive coverage and speculation has arisen as to what happened in the Watts’ home and on the basis that Watts has killed all three, what caused him to do so? What is the personality of this man?

Watts’ Version of Events

Watts has apparently admitted that he killed his wife in a fit of rage based on her strangling the children. Whilst this may seem unlikely, this, at present, is Watts’ evidence. Operating on the basis that this is the case, this evidences several interesting factors

  • To be enraged having witnessed your children being strangled is a potentially understandable response.
  • One might have expected Watts to have sought to help his children, to see if they could be saved. The failure to do so evidences a lack of empathy for their well-being and also suggests that he did not attend to their well-being because there was no  point, because he had killed them. Perhaps he did not attend to them because he knew they were dead and killed by their mother so he felt it pointless, but anybody with emotional empathy would more likely have tried to help the children (even if futile – their emotional thinking overriding the logic of the situation) and therefore Watts’ response either demonstrates a lack of empathy (assuming his wife killed the children) or he had killed them (which again shows a lack of empathy ).
  • To strangle his wife evidences a lack of empathy.
  • To respond in an enraged way suggests that Watts may well have experienced an ignition of fury, not because his wife had killed the children, but because his control had been threatened in some way, he had been wounded by his wife’s behaviour. Watts stated that he and his wife had an “emotional conversation” when making his television appearance, on the night before her ‘disappearance’. He then stated to police he had stated he wanted to separate and this caused his wife to strangle the children. It seems highly unlikely that Shanann Watts killed her children, the extensive material on Facebook (including videos) evidences a woman who clearly loved her children and showed considerable emotional empathy towards them. Accordingly, someone such as her would not kill her children.
  • Thus, Watts has demonstrated a lack of empathy and the ignition of fury as a consequence of being wounded through his wife rejecting his control.

The Homosexual Affair and Cheating

A man named Trent Bolte contacted a television station and claimed that he had been in a 10 month intimate relationship with Watts. Bolte’s claim contained details about Watts’ life which suggest his claim of a relationship is of sound veracity. Bolte’s details were also found on the MeetMe app which was on Watts’ phone. This app also demonstrated that Watts was active in contacting both men and women.

By engaging in an affair with Bolte this again reinforces Watts’ lack of empathy towards his wife and family. It shows a sense of entitlement to do as he wishes with whoever he chooses. The contact with both men and women on this app underlines this lack of empathy as it suggests that he was repeatedly cheating on his wife or at the very least looking to do so. Watts would also be drawing reactions from these individuals through their responses, by way of fuel. Watts’ bisexual behaviour shows sexual fluidity, a consequence of a lack of true self and supports an ongoing quest for fuel, an unconscious driver in his behaviour, which meant that he would cheat on his wife and was unconcerned whether this fuel provision came from men or women. The relatively blatant behaviour on this app, it was found easily and soon enough, shows Watts had no real concern about detection, again underlining his sense of entitlement and lack of accountability for his actions.

Bolte stated that Watts had said to him that Watts was

“A victim of emotional and verbal abuse.” and

“He was trapped in a loveless marriage and he didn’t know any way out.”

Does Bolte have any motivation to lie with regard to these statements? It is highly unlikely and therefore one would accept them as legitimate. These comments are certainly at odds with the posting of a seemingly perfect life which Shanann Watts posted on social media – Watts did not appear as a victim nor did his marriage appear loveless, at least from Shanann’s perspective. Such comments are evidence of the perpetual victim mentality of a narcissist, the issuing of lies which narcissist’s frequently use and projection and blame-shifting, instinctive manipulations of a narcissist.

Information has also emerged that Watts had an affair with a co-worker. On the basis this is true this shows again a lack of empathy for his family, a sense of entitlement and a lack of accountability.

The Television Appearances

These appearances provide considerable insight into what Watts is :-

  • Even on his version of events when he made a plea for the return of his family he already knew they were dead. Thus Watts lied. He not only lied to family, friends and the police but he took it a step further and did so through several television appeals. This demonstrates a grandiosity in thinking he could get away with what had happened, that people would believe him and shows a lack of sophistication with regard to his approach, supporting a low cognitive awareness and function.
  • Watts’ language is all about what he wants “I want them back in the house”, “I want them to come back”, “If they are not safe that is what is tearing me apart.”, “I need to see everybody.” This evidences two matters – his sense of entitlement and also a lack of empathy for (assuming they had disappeared) how his wife and children would be feeling.
  • Watts talks with a flat effect for most of his appearances. There is no emotion. He is not upset, he is not agitated, he is not worried or concerned. This is because he lacks the ability to demonstrate those emotions because he lacks empathy and moreover he does not even have cognitive empathy as he is unable to even feign the emotions and words one would expect from a worried husband and father.
  • Watts’ facial expression barely alters, there are no tears, his gaze is steady and unwavering towards the reporter, there is no break in his voice and at one point he even gives a short laugh when talking. Once again this demonstrates a clear absence of empathy and awareness. It might be suggested that some people laugh when they are nervous, this is true, but it is clear that Watts is not nervous and his laugh is his arrogance appearing momentarily.
  • Watts provides detail about how his wife had apparently killed the children. He is able to provide that detail because he killed the children and is able to transfer that description to his wife committing the killings.
  • Watts is asked by one reporter about the prospect of Watts having the finger of suspicion pointed at him. Watts’ deflects this completely by talking about wanting the children and his wife back. This evidences the narcissistic defence mechanism of deflection, an automatic and instinctive response. It also shows his lack of accountability how he does not see that he is culpable in anyway. It also evidences a haughtiness as he shoves the legitimate question to one side, not even giving it consideration or an answer.

Facebook and Social Media

Shanann Watts’ extensive use of Facebook provides considerable insight into the behaviour of Watts and the dynamic at work in the marriage.

  • There are many pictures which show an apparently perfect family life. Naturally, many people use Facebook to show an unrepresentative, overly-optimistic portrayal of their life. This is just as applicable to the Watts. It is clear that Shanann Watts adored her husband and her children and wanted to share that with the world. However, given what her husband is, it is also highly likely that Shanann focused on this portrayal to firstly please and appease her husband and secondly to convince herself that her family life was good on the whole. It is highly likely that Shannan Watts knew about her husband’s infidelities and she was also subjected to devaluing behaviour from him and not knowing who she was dealing with, she sought to mollify him by posting repeated praise for him. She described him as “the best thing that has ever happened to me”, she posted a video of one of her daughters saying “my daddy is a hero”. The pictures show a family unit, caring, secure and happy. Shannan’s behaviour fuelled Watts’ grandiose self, it was also done out of desperation to prove to him that she really did love him and adore him (as doubtless when devaluing her, he will have accused her of not loving him, being a cheat and similar). Caught by her own emotional thinking, Shanann tried to convince herself that everything was alright and if she kept up adoring Watts, loving him and doing the best she could, the problems that existed could be healed and fixed.
  • It is evident in the pictures that Watts is dead behind the eyes. His smiles are fixed but the eyes show nothing.
  • Shanann confirmed that Watts sent her a friend request on Facebook and she thought nothing would come of it, but then 8 years later they are married with two children. No doubt there was a dogged pursuit by Watts of Shanann and social media is a keen hunting ground for narcissists.
  • Many of the posts pander to Watts’ sense of grandiosity and inflated ego, there are videos of him working out, pictures of him without his shirt on apparently tenderly massaging his wife
  • In the videos the responses of Watts show either a flat effect or a delay in manifesting a supposedly emotional response e.g. delight in a certain situation. This show his stunted emotional spectrum and the fact that he does not instinctively feel emotions but has to emulate them – although he is not accomplished at this at all, hence the more usual flat effect he demonstrates.
  • A video on Watts’ YouTube page from April 2012 shows him giving a presentation where he states that there are three reasons to maintain a romantic relationship. He refers to having a desire to do so, a moral obligation to do so or whether there is a necessity to maintain it. Love is not mentioned – this is telling because as a narcissist he does not experience love and this presentation revealed the clinical approach he has to a relationship – it is a transaction because he owns the other person, who he regards as an object and his possession and the maintenance of the relationship is not seen as being based on empathy and love but on what he believes is what he should do by applying cold criteria.

The Disposal of the Bodies

As mentioned above Shanann Watts was placed in a shallow grave. The children dumped in oil wells. If Watts’ version of events is correct, the dumping of the children’s bodies which could only have been done by him – evidences a lack of empathy once again. If he was enraged by his wife’s alleged behaviour towards the children, one might understand his callous disposal of his wife in a shallow grave, but not dumping the children in an oil well. This is a very clear demonstration of his complete lack of empathy and low cognitive function.

The Performance

One might wonder why Watts confessed and why he did not maintain a facade that the family had disappeared and have been murdered by someone else. Why did he apparently confess to murdering his wife? There are three points arising here

  • Watts hardly uses a façade at all. His television performance was woeful. Many narcissists of a higher cognitive function would have turned in an Oscar worthy portrayal of upset, worry and concern. He did not because he does not have the capability BUT his low cognitive function, lack of awareness and complete lack of accountability mean he carried out the television appearance unaware of how it looked.
  • Watts has a low cognitive function and his story that his wife killed the children first and he reacted with rage is in effect, the best he can come up with as an attempt to deflect blame.
  • Watts has no sense of accountability. He does not believe he has done anything wrong at all. Not even murdering his wife. He is convinced that he has no culpability and that his story, weak as it is, is the truth because his defence mechanism causes him to believe this. See also his recent court appearance – he is unmoved, unperturbed, the flat affect evident once again.

What Really Happened?

Watts allowed his wife to portray their life as perfect. He was not overly concerned by presenting a façade but embraced it because when it was done, as he posed in the pictures etc, he gained fuel. It worked for him. His wife actually created the façade, not because she was a narcissist but because she was trying to appease her controlling and unpleasant husband, to convince herself everything would work out and was unaware of what her husband is. Watts was hero-worshipped and well-fuelled, but he tired of his wife’s positive fuel through her love and affection. He doubtless devalued her – verbal insults, unpleasant sexual behaviour, controlled her movements with other people, possibly physical assaults – but his wife will have kept this hidden, fearing further reprisal and also because she was desperate to keep the family unit intact.

Watts sought fuel elsewhere through infidelity. He did so because he has no empathy, he is entitled and has no sense of obligation or accountability. It is likely that his wife had learned of these infidelities and she threatened to leave him. This threat to his main source of fuel meant that he was wounded, his fury ignited and with heated fury he reacted with violence causing him to strangle his wife and then his children. He saw the children as a manifestation of his wife, his wife the traitor, and they similarly were so regarded and became victims of his murderous ignited fury. He has a low threshold on his ignited fury which meant he did not resort to a non-lethal manipulation but lashed out in a fatal way, unable to control himself. He needed to assert his perceived superiority, he needed to punish and he did so in the most drastic method.

I doubt he wanted to separate from his wife. He had no need. She provided fuel (both positive and negative), maintained a picture perfect existence, doubtless catered to his every need on the domestic front thus providing residual benefits. He had no need to separate from this. His sense of entitlement allowed him to seek fuel intimately elsewhere and still remain with his wife, he did not need to separate to continue to do that.

It is clear that Watts has no empathy (neither emotional or cognitive), he is of a low cognitive function, he requires fuel, he has a sense of entitlement, no sense of accountability, has elements of grandiosity, is manipulative, haughty, lies extensively and has no boundary recognition. He is a narcissist and a psychopath but a low-functioning one. His appearance, use of sex, unfaithful behaviour and his going along with the perfect family appearance of attractive wife and children, nice home, holidays, friends etc show him as a clear somatic.

Chris Watts is a  Somatic Middle Lesser Narcissistic Psychopath.



562 thoughts on “A Very Murderous Narcissist – Analysis

  1. Krista says:

    A psychologist said that prison is where all the failed narcissists and sociopaths end up due to everything you listed in your analysis about the type of narcissist Chris is. They get caught easily due to the absolute inability to view their actions through the eyes of police and other people. Self-awareness is completely exempt from the lower cognitive narcissist and their downfall in crimes is horrific planning, overestimation of their ability to get away with it, and underestimation of everyone else figuring it out.

    1. HG Tudor says:


    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      That’s really funny Krista. I mean I knew most of them weren’t the brightest of sparks but it did Amuse me that it’s because they overestimate their ability to get away with it and underestimate everyone else at figuring it out.

      1. Krista says:

        It’s why he went on TV, spoke to police without an attorney, and agreed to a polygraph test. He really thought he had the ability to snow actual FBI agents that are equipped and trained in behavioral science and have dealt with every personality disorder under the sun. They have dealt with criminals way more competent and genius at murder than Chris Watts. Yet he still felt like he had a chance.

  2. About the eyes says:

    I’ve read most of your articles and some of your books and yet I can’t find the answer to this question anywhere:

    1. You describe yourself as a narcissist AND a psychopath;
    2. I understand the differend types of narcissists. I think I understand why Watts is a narcissist and a psychopath
    3. Is he a psychopath because of the murders?
    4. What is a psychopath and most importantly: what’s the difference between a narcissist and a psychopath?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Correct.
      3. Not just because of the murders.
      4. Someone who has ASPD. There are numerous differences, but the main one is an absence of fear.

  3. Michele Renn says:

    Due to their belief in what they view each – particularly the lower and mid-range, can a narcissist pass a lie detector test?

    1. HG Tudor says:


  4. About the eyes says:

    I understand why Watts is a psychopath. I assume serialkillers are psychopaths. What is the line/difference between:
    1. A psychopath – does he/she always kill?
    2. A narcissist with some psychopath issues – they don’t always kill – how do you recognise psychopath issues?3. A narcissist can kill – is he then a sociopath as well?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. No.
      2. Different relationship re fuel, absence of fear.

  5. Pingback: Shanann,Bella,Celeste和Niko,并保护其他人免受家庭暴力。 金丝菊健康网
  6. Wendy says:

    I love reading your case studies and analysis. You are able to skillfully use real behavior to illustrate the behavior reflexes of narcissists. Have you ever thought of doing a behavioral manual? Like a medical manual? I would buy it in a heartbeat. You could have category sections, seduction behavior, hoover, devalue, facade protection, fury etc. It would be handy when trying to evaluate someone who you fear might be a narcissist. I see them everywhere now. Worried that I am just paranoid.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Wendy. Much of this material is available throughout my work. I have two significant advantages over other people, firstly my level of expertise and secondly I am objective, dispassionate and unaffected by the emotional thinking which obscures your application of logic. Hence your worry that you are paranoid. That is why the Narc Detector Consultation is both important and effective.

      1. Liza says:

        how about teaching in university? i’m sure that your class would be verry populare, or is it that your schedule doesn’t allow it?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes it would be, it is more the case that protecting my identity does not allow it. For now.

          1. Liza says:

            then, i hope that hiding your identity will soon not be a problem anymore.
            plus i really want to see your face, and check if the image of you i’v made in my head is accurate.

  7. Klaudia says:

    You are so smart H.G You couldn’t describe it better. Such a sad story:( -explained in perfection

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you

  8. aapzonderstaart says:

    ”Watts’ bisexual behaviour shows sexual fluidity, a consequence of a lack of true self and supports an ongoing quest for fuel, an unconscious driver in his behaviour, which meant that he would cheat on his wife and was unconcerned whether this fuel provision came from men or women”

    Is this same reason why some narcissist chose to sexual abuse childeren ?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      The abuse of children is borne our of a sense of entitlement, a lack of boundaries, no concept of accountability, a lack of remorse, a need for control.

      1. Wendy says:

        HG do you think that a large percentage of pedophiles are narcissists? Are somatic narcs more dangerous than other classifications?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Paedophiles are narcissists or narcissistic. Not all narcissists are of course paedophiles.

          1. Lorelei says:

            How could they not be 100% narcissists? (Paedophiles)
            You say narcissistic but this seems like a slam dunk. In what case could someone they does that have one ounce of empathy? Either way—useless people.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            It is called having limited empathy.

            The person who views images of a child being sexually abused and derives gratification from it may also be someone who care about their parents. They have limited empathy, for their parents, but no empathy for the unknown child.
            This person is narcissistic.

          3. Lorelei says:


          4. EmP says:

            HG, but the narcissistic paedophile would not actually abuse the child, correct?

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Less likely to do so, but potentially could. Even the limited empathy might be reduced to result in the abuse taking place.

  9. Rebecca Bronson says:

    Hi HG. Law enforcement recently conducted another long interview with Chris Watts post sentencing (March 2019). I’ve noticed some youtube channels declaring, after these interviews, that he is not a narcissist. Here’s one such example; I would be interested in your response to these claims. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpKYRt8cu1M


  10. Getting There says:

    HG, I know you are busy. I am just curious if you have tracked the Patrick Frazee case. If so, what are your thoughts on him and thoughts on his mom?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I have not, no.

      1. Getting There says:

        Thank you, HG!
        I had been confused by him and his mom but will keep trying to apply what I learn here as more comes out.
        Have a great Easter!

  11. SMH says:

    Everyone should also watch Dirty John: The Dirty Truth. This is a documentary version of the Dirty John story, with interviews involving the victims. It is truly a lesson in narc seduction, manipulation and fury.

    1. jessrnny says:

      I watched this today. It was great.

      1. SMH says:

        Glad you did, JESSRNNY. I found it much for effective than the fictionalized version.

  12. Mercy says:

    HG, Have you ever talked about or heard of Steven Avery from Making a Murderer? Against popular opinion, I think he is guilty and that him and his new attorney, Kathleen Zellner are narcissist. I’m interested in your opinion.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I watched quite a number of the episodes on Netflix a couple of years ago. I found it interesting to begin with, but then repetitive and lost interest. From what I watched I considered that the prosecution were unable to achieve the burden of proof and therefore resorted to activity which offended due process.

      1. Mercy says:

        HG, thanks for your response. My opinion comes from what I’ve read outside of the Netflix series. I enjoyed the first season but it became too Hollywood after that. It’ll be interesting to see if lawyer tricks and his fan base gets him out if prison.

  13. Sophia says:

    Did anyone else see Chris Watts: the true confession?

    1. jessrnny says:

      I listened to it yesterday. I feel slightly less intelligent bc he’s not the smartest guy. He’s lying through most of it and is just following the lead of the people asking the questions.

  14. jessrnny says:

    Ya there’s been some updates in the details of this case. Meg Markle is also making quite a stir with the sales of her new product line.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There will be an update with regard to MM in due course.

  15. Getfit123 says:

    He’s found new fuel in pursuing Jesus according to the news.

    1. K says:

      Pursuing Jesus, I am going to go with facade maintenance and possibly false contrition.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        I hope Jesus heeds his call when he’s being smothered by a 300 pound dude with a 12 inch dick so he can endure it again another day. And another…and another…
        Watch over him Jesus. Keep him alive so he can serve as someone else’s fuel source. Indeed give him purpose.

        1. kel says:

          NarcAngel, Amen to that!

        2. K says:

          Ha ha ha….thanks for the laugh!

        3. Sophia says:


          We could only hope. I’d like to see how he’s living in prison. I’d bet a lot of people would.

    2. Sophia says:

      I saw that. Such bullshit. He’s lapping up the fuel. Sick bastard. A person doesn’t find god after he strangles his little girls and pregnant wife. He’s pure evil.

  16. Minoura says:

    Chris Watts seems to have fairly emotional normal parents going by their responses in courts and elsewhere. I wonder if his personality is due to genetics as opposed to the the environment he grew up in owing to him being referred to as a Psychopath by HG.

    1. Alex says:

      His mother is a narcissist.

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        His mothers a psycho!

    2. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi minoura…chris watts mum is a psycho too. Very controlling mother and meddled constantly in his marriage. She smeared shannan to his friends and was always causing conflict and drama. Shes showed no emotion over her grandkids death and is only concerned about her golden child chris. Shes just as sick! He got his npd from her im sure!

      1. A383 says:


        I agree. x

    3. jessrnny says:

      Mom is a MRN and a monster.

  17. Sunshine says:

    Please can you consider doing an up-to-date article on this case? It has progressed significantly since this article. Not just his confession and sentencing, but there’s a fascinating insight into him from the two tranches of police investigation ‘discovery’.

    The two-facedness and coldness of it all is really quite hideous and inexplicable.

    Not only that – there is his family – his narcissistic mother who criticised her murderered daughter-in-law, barely mentioned her murdererd grandchildren but wanted to ‘fight’ for her Chrissy poo. And then had the audacity to stand up in court in the context of being a victim because she was a grandparent and barely mention her grandchildren – but publicly announce – at his sentencing – in front of Shannan’s family – that she loved him and forgave him.

    Meanwhile, CW has apparently not shed a single tear (he is closely monitored in jail).

    If you have the time, there’s a lot of things to be explored here.

  18. Rosie says:

    Damn, you nailed it HG. I love your “diagnosis” too of the specific type of disordered party is involved here. I used to say frequently that one of the most dangerous people you can deal with is a narcissist / sociopath, who doesn’t have the IQ to back it all up. They are hopeless and incredibly destructive.

  19. petecowell1 says:

    I don’t think he told his wife he wanted to split with her. He seems a coward who would rather kill his family than face up to his actions, as he told his girlfriend he was already going through a divorce

    1. MB says:

      HG, is it possible that the killings were an example of a real Final Discard? He had embedded a new primary source and they no longer existed in his world so he literally destroyed them and threw them away.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        An interesting observation, but no, his response was that of ignited fury as opposed to any response aligned to deletion.

  20. MB says:

    If this description of CWs crimes doesn’t convince you that HG Tudor speaks the truth, nothing will. He called it back in early September. Psychopath. Listen to the descriptions of his texting and internet activity vs hers. Everything adds up to HGs analysis and validates his teachings.

    Warning: there are graphic descriptions of evidence which was disturbing to me. (I cried.) But I am glad I listened to it. It bolsters my learning and solidifies that HG is the number one source to get real life information on narcissistic abuse. I hope that the families find their way to HGs analysis of events. CW is not sharing any details and the families just keep asking why, why, why? HG tells them why. May they find him and may they find peace.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you MB.

      1. MB says:

        I know 13 minutes is an eternity in your world Mr Tudor, but did you hear any of the DAs description of the crimes and the troubled marriage?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I have not listened yet.

  21. Mercy says:

    I watched the sentencing on FB this morning. It was very emotional. I found his mother was the hardest one to watch. He showed no emotion through the entire sentencing. Not even during his mother’s speech. His father had someone read his and it’s understandable. I don’t know if I could have spoke in that situation. I was curious however, and wanted to hear from him to study his reactions. It makes me wonder if Chris Watson was a product of his father. His mother’s emotions seemed very real to me.

    1. petecowell1 says:

      I’ve seen people trying to blame Shanann for him killing her and their children, but if you listen to his mother talking after the trial, she seems like a psychopath herself. She seemed to care more about trying to twist her son’s actions on his wife, than the fact her grandchildren were killed by him. Then I see Shanann’s family who seem nice and normal, and wonder if Shanann was gaslighted and other psychopaths are trying to blame her for what he did

      1. HG Tudor says:

        She had narcissistic traits (see her prolific social media activity) but she was neither a psychopath nor a narcissist.

      2. Mercy says:

        Petecowell1, I didn’t get a chance to watch the interview after. My daughter was saying the same thing you said. I’ll have to take look.

      3. MB says:

        PC1, I got the feeling that Shanann had been the subject of a smear campaign from CW to his mother. His mother said she did not attend the wedding because she and Shanann did not get along. I wouldn’t think a smear campaign would have been implemented that early on, however. She (CWs mother) stated that Shanann made derogatory comments to Chris early on in their dating regarding his appearance, etc and that she didn’t believe they were a good match.

  22. Mona says:

    HG, you will not like it. I will never understand, why you “always” combine a lesser narc with a low cognitive function. There are several examples of brutal, sadistic murderers with very high intelligence. I think, that most of them are not caught or – a coincidence let them fall – or their arrogance let them fall.

    What do you understand under “lower cognitive function”?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I have never said that a sadistic and brutal murderer cannot be of high intelligence.

      1. Mona says:

        HG, deflection. I supposed that you would give me an answer like that and that means I know your kind now very well.

        I think, it is more a question of living primitive instincts, that someone allows to shine because of his narcissistic psychopathic traits (lack of empathy and lack of feeling guilt) than a question of intellect.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, it is not deflection, it is the answer and is correct.

          It is part of the make-up of a Lesser that they have a low cognitive function. You are confusing a criterion for the Lesser, with the issue of what type of narcissist a sadistic, brutal murderer might be – such an individual could come from all three schools.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            I generally associate Lessers as having a hair trigger and much less control over their fury, resulting in more spontaneous and unpremeditated acts of violence and death. Greaters (not always of course) as having a simmering fury that builds but is controlled, allowing for more planning and calculation, but both can be brutal and sadistic.

          2. windstorm says:

            Agreed. Then you also have the creepy murdering midrangers like Chris Watts.

      2. Renarde says:


    2. SuperXena says:

      I believe you are interpreting this the other way around:
      -The narcissists that show a low(er) cognitive functioning( among other common distinctive traits) are grouped under a certain school denominated here as “ lessers”( you can call them as you want).
      – Not all those who have low cognitive functioning are violent, aggressive or murderers.
      -The degree of aggressiveness and violence is determined by :
      a )the ability of control and impulse regulation
      b) the triggering of “ epigenes” during childhood due to external factors( i.ex.abuse) that makes them more prone to violence .
      -However,the higher the cognitive functioning the better they can
      regulate their impulse issues. It helps them to be able to reason their way down a train of logic. This also helps them to predict consequences.
      So lower cognitive functioning = less effective impulse control .

      Just an observation: intelligence and cognitive functioning are not the same concepts.( “Intelligence :is the ABILITY to understand what is perceived, learned, or reasoned; Cognition:is the PROCESS of thought or knowing. It’s the mental outcome of perceiving, learning and reasoning.)

      You can find a very intelligent person with low cognitive functioning.

      As I understand, there has never been stated here a direct correlation between intelligence and murderous or sadistic traits pertaining to a certain group/school of narcissist.

      1. Mona says:

        Narcangel and Superxena, thank you very much both. You both answered my question. I have had a different translation in my head for “lower cognitive function.” I translated it with a lack of intelligence.
        The expression “cognitive function” has a different meaning in my country.

        1. SuperXena says:

          You’re welcome Mona.

  23. Getting There says:

    HG, why would he take the plea and risk going into the general area of jail where others there do not take kindly to people who harm women or children?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. NarcAngel says:

        Also, maybe he enjoys being buggered with a broomstick.

      2. Getting There says:

        Thank you, HG! His arrogance may not have been the most helpful for him in this decision; on a different note, he will probably receive a lot of fuel there.

        LOL, NarcAngel! There will be more options of those who may volunteer to assist in general population.

        1. MB says:

          I don’t think he will last long unless they put him in solitary. And as a narcissist, being in solitary might be worse than the broomstick.

    2. Mona says:

      HG and narcangel, there is no other place to answer for me.

      I prefer the answer of narcangel, it is more explaining.

      I did not confuse the criterions and it was deflection.

      End of discussion. I do not like circles.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Incorrect. What NA wrote is based precisely on what I have written about previously and is entirely in accordance with what I have stated.

        There was no deflection. I gave you the answer.

        My point is correct and has been made.

      2. Rosie says:

        HG is making perfect sense Mona… you are reading something there that just isn’t happening.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you.

  24. Jennifer from Los Angeles says:

    HG, you had at least on one occasion said that you had antisocial traits and it appears that there is some overlap between this (APD) and narcissism. Would you say that they are related? If so, are those who are completely antisocial on the lesser end, being that they extinguish their source of fuel rather than conserve it?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There are links yes.
      Those that extinguish sources of fuel are less capable and tend to be haphazard because of an inability to control their ignited fury.

  25. Clarece says:

    Here is a Chris Watts update. He was in court earlier this week finally pleading guilty on 9 counts of murder of his wife, two daughters and unborn child. He will be sentenced to life in prison on Nov. 19th.
    This, finally, after reports of him going thru a depression and becoming despondent for a few months when his story wasn’t believed.
    It is reported he has been very angry at having to plead guilty but “realized he had his back against the wall” at the insurmountable and factual evidence proving he did the murders. He did this to avoid the death penalty.

  26. Lowla says:

    HG Tudor, you are an amazing writer. Thanku for this page…and being transparent.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed I am and thank you.

  27. Morning sun says:

    “bisexual behaviour shows sexual fluidity, a consequence of a lack of true self”

    Oh my, that’s so like hearing my narc ex speak… he owned the truth completely and utterly, not just his own truth, but the truth about everybody else and the universe in general.

    Wow it’s great to to have this place to come back to! I glimpsed the narc the other day as he drove past me in his car. He didn’t seem to have noticed me, but I dreamt about him that night and I haven’t quite felt myself since, breaking no contact by thinking about him on several occasions. It will soon be a year of no contact.

    1. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi morning sun…great pt about sexual fluidity with narcs. Ive seen this many times with victims and their narcs. I do wonder if all narcs have this trait? My narc is definitely not interested in men sexually but he does look up to certain men trump being one of them. All the men he admires are assholes(sorry trump supporters). The admiration i find ridiculous but when you have no sense of self you become bits and pieces of others. I see this with my mum and stepdad. When they admire someone they “become” them. They acquire their beliefs and do what they do. It makes them look so pathetic. I feel embarressed for them. They are so empty they cant form who they really are.

  28. lisa says:

    Interesting 2 part documentary and extensive interview with serial killer Dahmer on TV, where he repeatedly talks about how he viewed his victims as objects and never as human beings . Hmmmm sound familiar 🤔
    HG’s GOSO is probably the wise choice , not how can they be fixed , managed, bla bla bla ………

  29. amanda SNapchat says:

    HG: I am sharing your post in all the murder FB groups I am in. hahaha SO I think I used to be a savior empath and would love to read murder stories and think of how to help the murderer. THEY NEED SALVATION! hahaha…anyway I am still part of several FB groups where they discuss cases., This one is HUGE. I think these groups are filled with savior empaths. I think sharing your blog will help many suddenly realize what they are 🙂 and also learn about narcs.
    Kudos por the great writing!

    1. amanda SNapchat says:

      BTW I think I evolved and am NO longer a savior empath. I could care less about murderer losers…

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You mean that you couldn’t care less, if you could care less, well then, you could er care less.

        1. MB says:

          The saying itself is messed up. People say they “could care less” without even thinking about what it really means. Another saying that’s messed up that I refuse to say is “hot water heater.” It’s just water heater. If it were hot, it wouldn’t need heating.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed such as those who say PIN number, it is just PIN – don’t get me started though.

          2. MB says:

            I know! Same.

          3. BlueFalcon says:

            HG Tudor I was wondering if you think Chris suffer from Cluster B as well? When I reread all your comments about him, I cannot avoid and wonder if some of these traits or all as matter of fact on Chris?

          4. K says:

            Be careful with this one too. “You never fail to disappoint me.”

            After the WNAAD interview I thought I used that sentence in a comment to HG but I didn’t. I used: Your interviews never disappoint, ever.


          5. MB says:

            K, those double negatives are tricky! These examples are fun. I actually WOULD like to get HG started. It’s not a good use of his time and doesn’t teach us about narcissism. I’m so bad to go off on tangents. Keeping the vision of HGU is important to stay on track.

            I’m posting soon about some epiphanies I’ve had about of my personality disorder. Yes, I have one. I’m sure. Ive got to get it pulled together. I went down a rabbit hole recently when I found that NOBODY shared my characteristic of “the creature”. I thought it would resonate and when it didn’t, even with abused individuals, I felt like a freak. Everybody listened and was very kind but it didn’t connect.

          6. Twilight says:


            You are far from a freak.

            I do not believe I have this “creature” , I know my ex does and what I experienced has haunted me sense that day. It is something I have a hard time describing, I fight feelings of betraying him every time i try and explain. This was/is his innermost fear.

          7. windstorm says:

            I sense this “creature” in my narcs, too, but I sense it as more of a dark void. Maybe part of the problem is that we’re all thinking different descriptions in our minds for something we can’t actually visualize – like when someone tries to imagine what an elephant looks like from just a written description. I remember being totally shocked the first time I saw an elephant at a circus. It was nothing like I had imagined and I’d even seen pictures.

          8. MB says:

            Thank you Twilight.

          9. windstorm says:

            You stay out of those rabbit holes! Especially with all the flooding going on. Ha, ha!

            Seriously don’t let it bother you that no one spoke up and identified with your creature. Maybe they weren’t as brave as you or maybe they aren’t as self-aware. Plus there are tons of people here on the blog that never or rarely make any comments.

            That’s the great thing about anonymity. We can be totally open and honest. I share any and everything I think might be helpful, no matter how crazy people will think I am. I just admitted yesterday that I see answers to personal questions in how many crows I see. And to use one of my MnM Prezek’s favorite quotes, “ I was serious as a heart attack.” I challenge anyone to top that for crazy!

            Be yourself, MB. It’s the very best person you can be. ❤️

          10. NarcAngel says:

            Btw – Was the comment I made on another thread that you didnt understand when I said Mama! ?
            If so, its because I was amused at reading your description of your daughter. I could highly identify with the way you described her lol. Thus the poor joke that she is my sister and you my mother. I am aware that we are more sisters in age. Sorry for the confusion.

          11. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha NarcAngel!
            Yes, it was the one where you said, Mama! That’s one of the ones I wasn’t sent by WordPress and just happened upon. I had no idea what you meant!

            So, you identify with my daughter, do you? I can see similarities, but you are more outspoken than she is. She’d probably come across as gentler than you, but maybe not. Anymore she’s so into “mother mode” herself it masks a lot of her personality.

            I sure hope she doesn’t think of me like you do your own mother. None of my children suffered abuse like you did, and no physical abuse at all, but she has certainly expressed astonishment many times as to why I ever married her dad.

            I try to explain the lack of options out in the middle of no where before the internet or even cell phones, but I see her skepticism. She never made any attempt to hide that she was looking for a husband the exact opposite of her dad! And she found one.

            I love my SIL but I could have never been married to him – or even live with him. He lacks the open-minded tolerance and high functioning intelligence I require in a partner. But my daughter doesn’t feel the need of those things. I guess since she sees everything as right or wrong, those qualities aren’t important – maybe even detrimental. She sure has no tolerance for anyone (like me, lol!) questioning her opinions!

          12. NarcAngel says:

            I doubt she thinks of you as I do my mother. It seems a different situation altogether from what you have described. She might wonder about your choice of husband as you do hers, but thats neither here nor there. For one thing – If I had had children, I certainly would not invite my mother to be around them as your daughter does.

          13. windstorm says:

            Well, she does like me there helping out, but I’ve got to watch what I say in many ways! This last time I got chastised for calling my dog “Idiot,” since that is “not kind” and set a bad example for the children. I didn’t even bother pointing out that the dog views it as a term of affection, since that just makes it sound worse.

          14. K says:

            I usually google all idioms to make sure I get them right and I am trying to reduce superfluities in my comments.

            You are not a freak, share your “creature” here with us because we will understand. I told my children I have EPD (empath personality disorder) to help explain my sometimes-not-so-stellar behaviour.

            Now, come join me at table nine* for a drink.

            *Wedding Singer

          15. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha, K!
            That’s the saying I always thought of with my Moron! “You never fail to disappoint!”

          16. SMH says:

            Oooh, K and Windstorm, I am adding “you never fail to disappoint” tomy phrase collection, which also includes “No, I am afraid Narc is dead,” and “I told you all of this tomorrow.” I have a little sticky on my computer just in case – weaponizing myself!

          17. K says:

            There are some epic phrases in this article, check them out, type: humpty dumpty in the search bar and add them to your computer sticky.

          18. SMH says:

            Thanks for the tip, K! That post and thread are hilarious. Now that I have a better understanding of gas lighting, I’m armed if he reappears.

          19. K says:

            Ha ha ha…that phrase is applicable to all our “Morons in Munich”. Thanks for the laugh.

      2. amanda SNapchat says:

        haha thanks! I will say again: “I could not care less…” and try to use the correct form in my everyday writing and conversation. 🙂
        Thanks Prof Tudor and MB 🙂 Great point on the water heater and pin. I will use it also. Cheers. 🙂 Have a great day =^.^=

    2. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Amanda, I appreciate you doing so. It is actually sharing material into such ‘virgin’ groups who may know nothing about narcissism that the information is best spread – supposed relationship, dating, marriage advice sites and groups are other places which would benefit hugely.

      1. Bibi says:

        PIN number–haha. I actually can’t stand HIV virus.

        Question. HG, I read up about this ass and the latest news is that he is depressed, sleeping all day, in isolation 23 hrs a day, no weights or reading material, etc.

        As for the depression. Do you think he ‘regrets’ his actions not out of care but b/c he realizes his life is fucked or do you think he has really convinced himself that he is a victim in all this b/c he has made himself believe his lies?

        Or is the depression just fuel loss/excessive boredom/ knowing his life is over? All of the above?

        A YT commenter who did not understand narcissism was trying to claim that ‘He must be feeling an overwhelming amount of grief. No one could commit such an act and not feel that.’ Hence the depression.

        Uh, on the contrary. I let her know otherwise.

  30. Bibi says:


    I heard that ambulance in the video too. I also heard in one what sounded like a mobile phone going off several times.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      You were likely hearing the chime of the gold phone (for golden period/seduction).
      Work is silver
      Blog is white
      Black is devalue/hoover.
      This is based on previous information of course and subject to change. He probably has more phones now lol.

      1. Bibi says:


        Haha. And HG I hear you tap the mic each time twice before you begin.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ah that’s the mute button being touched, not the mic.

      2. Perse says:


        And the Bat Phone is for??………….

      3. MB says:

        NA, it was definitely not the golden phone! He let it buzz and continued with his recording. If it had been the golden phone, he would’ve paused and resumed after the call. (I always think of his alligator wrestling analogy.) It’s silly, but it made me feel important that he continued the recording “for us” rather than answer the phone. Triangulation much? It probably was the “bat” phone. (His mother calling.)

    2. MB says:

      Bibi, I heard his phone buzzing too. He was teaching us about triangulation with that stunt. Ha ha

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Sorry, just saw your comment now. Haha, The Bat phone might be appropriate for his mother.

  31. Jeanie says:

    Watts allowed. So does this mean the writer of this article presumes Watts a tyrant, in charge of directing his wife’s actions? Just curious, also curious who the author is.

    1. Perse says:

      The Author is “HG Tudor”, you are commenting on his web site narcsite.com.

      Many narcissists ARE evil tyrants at home, and something completely different in public.
      That information and much more is available on this website. I hope you read more,and find out what a narcissist is, (and is not), and what interacting with them is like.


  32. Mercy says:

    A thought that came to mind that I don’t think was been mentioned. Strangulation is a very intimate way of killing someone which would support the fact that he has no empathy. Only someone that feels no emotion could use their hands in this way to take a person’s life, let alone their own children. It would not have been a quick death so he had to watch the pain and fear in their faces…3 times. This man felt nothing.

    Also as mentioned in previous comments, it is not hard to own a gun in the US. He had no history of violence or prior record so it would have been easy to obtain a weapon. This would help solidify the fact that it was an impulsive act. Had it been premeditated, I don’t think strangulation would have been his method of choice.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Valid point.

      1. Renarde says:

        Agreed. Strangulation is a very tricky way of doing it with many, many ways of the victim disentangling before resolution. It is risky and relies on brute strength. That was the last resort.

    2. Lori says:

      Strangulation is unpremeditated rage.

      1. HG Tudor says:


      2. Lori says:

        Look at me I’m startin to get stuff. I’m turning into a good student !

  33. Bibi says:

    Another thing that gets me curious is that Watts has no signs of struggle on his face. You’d think she would have tried to fight him off, scratch him, flail about, hit him with the nearest lamp, etc.

    1. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi bibi…chris watts did have a scratch on the right side of his neck.

      1. Bibi says:

        True. I was thinking about Shanann’s family today as they (in NC) brace for this immense hurricane only one month after losing so much of their family.

        And Mercy makes a good point. Strangulation is Ted Bundy technique. He claimed to love to watch his victims gasp for breath–it gave him a rush of power.

    2. Chihuahuamum says:

      Also we dont know he could have other areas scratched etc we havent seen.

      1. Renarde says:

        EXTREMELY easy to get someone unawares. What I have personally observed is THIS happens when I’m doing the washing up. Pretty innocuous; I’ll grant you.

        Something mundane like that means you have often ‘drifted off’ yourself; just thinking your thoughts. I have then felt two arms ‘snake’ around me from behind. They always go for the lower half and not the upper one where women are more sensitive. So say around the hips but not grabbing your genitals in an obvious fashion. This obviously makes me ‘jump’. My hearing is pretty good, yet I missed it. With two, different men.

        ‘Good gracious!’ I’ll often reply. They will always laugh. In fact, we laugh together.

  34. Renarde says:

    Dear HG

    It’s exactly 130 years since ‘The Autumn of Terror’. Any chance you could write an analysis of the Ripper?

    1. Presque Vu says:

      Oh yes!
      I still can’t visit Whitechapel without thinking of this!

    2. Bubbles🍾 says:

      Dear Renarde,
      Did you hear about the woman who was carving the family roast beef in the kitchen when her husband crept up behind her to give her a loving hug and she accidentally killed him.
      As she stood before the Judge for sentencing …. he asked “but why did you stab him 357 times ? ”

      She replied ….” I couldn’t turn the electric carving knife off ” 😂

      Luv Bubbles xx

      1. Renarde says:

        Ha ha!

  35. tigerchelle78 says:

    Just to add my little tid bit. I didn’t even hear of this in the UK. Was it even in our news? I didn’t see it. So don’t know much at all except what I’ve read here.

    But as many have said. HG you would make an excellent detective, criminal psychologist or whatever. I guess you are good at reading people. You would make an excellent Sherlock Holmes. I love the Benedict Cumberbatch ones! I love how he works out people. You have many talents HG and they are only the ones I have seen in your writings, but there are many more besides I’m sure and I don’t say that lightly.

    1. /iroll says:

      @tigerchelle78, so did Ted Bundy, not every ‘antisocial type’ is a Sherlock Holmes. Bundy was flattered by the attention, it doesn’t make him a person with extra talents, Bundy was experienced in the mind of a serial killer because he was one.


      The question is, what makes us civilians experts on all this? The answer is: pop culture entertainment. We should be critical of that when we hold our own ‘knowledge’ as having the same level of experience and study as the experts, who all differ in opinion as well. Criminology is a different field from psychology – the TV series MindHunter was about that, while also being in equal parts cynical and sensationalistic about the ability for men to become ‘psychopath whisperers’.

      Regular police and criminal social workers view criminals of the psychopathic variety as a nuisance because they are resistant to rehabilitation, are involved in multiple criminal areas, such as fraud and petty crime, far more than they are killers— and are generally a big tax money sink. They recognise that our criminal and psychiatric institutions are limited in being able to stop them. ASD-types are not all the geniuses portrayed in the media and often need specialised assistance in overcoming learning disabilities due to severe aversions to authority.

      Recent studies in the business sector show that while extreme narcissistic personality types climb social ranks more easily than others, they often make bad business decisions, take risks without sucesses and refuse to accept feedback, critique and generally cause interpersonal and financial problems due to being bad team players.

      The ones that are of benefit to society are rare, in other words. When society rewards such behaviours, we also create them, this is something we need to be critical of.

  36. BlueFalcon says:

    Appreciate your reply… Have a good day and thanks for reaching out!😊

  37. HG Tudors #1 fan says:


    This is what we discussed my ex is. I am so glad i made it out alive.

  38. HG Tudors #1 fan says:


    He is hoovering and having that woman harass me as well. Can we book another session? You were right about everything.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Of course.

      1. HG Tudors #1 fan says:


    2. amanda SNapchat says:

      what is the best way to deal with that? How is the woman harrasing you? good luck! stay safe

  39. Presque Vu says:

    This crime is so similar to Netflix murder files ‘Killer on the run’ Neil Entwistle who shot his wife and baby without motive.

    He blamed his wife for killing the baby and then committing suicide herself. He flew back to the UK where his parents live from the US after murdering them.

    The investigators actually claim he’s a narcissist and devoid of emotion. Neil laughed during court proceedings when shown his wife and baby’s decomposed bodies in the marital bed. I was horrified at how he laughed in court! So blatant! So evil. Honestly it’s so chilling!!!

    He too had a porn addiction and secret life on adult websites.

    His eyes… stone cold. Even in a photo with his baby, just dead eyes and fake smile. He never attended their funerals.

    HG, you are right about trends, similar behaviours, double life’s. All attracted to empathic beautiful women but unable to face responsibility or accountability. Entitlement runs through their core like Blackpool does through a confectionary rock.

    Your analysis will help women/men everywhere if they know about the red flags from the get go. Healthy AND unhealthy relationships need to be taught in schools. Teach this stuff instead of home economics!!!

    In my opinion, Neil was a LSN psychopath and Chris with 100% similarity the same!…it’s the mirror image crime! Lesser because of impulsivity and rage, and somatic because of projecting the perfect family image and he was handsome. Neil even created the ‘perfect family’ website to flaunt his family like a showreel of perfection and love.

    It just shows you… how right HG gets it! I’m certainly not blowing smoke up his arse, but he has to be on to something to get the classes, cadres and behaviours all uniformed and all accurate in behaviours. It doesn’t matter if they are from Rome or from Russia. The traits are the same. No empathy, no remorse, no guilt, no accountability, no fucks given.

    THAT is hard to swallow, but we must because they walk amongst us as Ted Bundy said.

    I appreciate your work HG thank you. I feel like you’ve passed me the baton of knowledge like the Olympic flame, and now I run to the next narc free chapter weaponised.

    1. Bibi says:

      I enjoyed your comment, Presque Vu. Bundy too is an interesting case, as he was very Elitist and had extremely high cognitive ability and intellect. He was so convinced no other lawyer could match him in his abilities that he defended himself in his own trial.

      He was able to give clues into Gary Ridgeway (The Green River Killer) and what to look for and help cops figure the case better. He escaped jail twice via outsmarting the cops and those interviews with him in prison towards the end of his life are really something. He was a master at manipulation and good wordsmith.

      He attracted ‘groupies’ and enormous media during his trial and when they were describing the Fl State murders in detail, it was clear he was loving it, all the attention, listening to his ‘work’ in full detail. He seemed to be pretty self aware, as one of his many famous lines was something like, ‘I am the most cold hearted son of a bitch you’ll ever know.’

      He woulnd’t kill you if he spoke with you for more than 20 mins. He also said he was able to identify his victims just by the way they walked.

      1. Presque Vu says:

        Honestly I find him fascinating Bibi!

        I watched the interview in his own words, after watching Ted Bundy 2002 film. I swear – I sat there and thought how did this guy commit these crimes! He got away with it because he didn’t look like a serial killer and was very intelligent and easy to listen to, he was convincing. How many of us would help him to his car with books he had dropped and couldn’t pick up because of his arm in a cast??

        All of us! None of us would have batted an eye lid! He was very manipulative, trying to bide a few more hours before he was executed by saying he would help the police locate more bodies – outrageous.

        By the end he said he had found god, and wanted to explain things so his family especially could understand why. He blamed his addiction to violent hard-core pornography insisting that ALL serial killers and Psychopaths had this in common. There was an awareness for sure – like HG has.

        I was shocked he was allowed to cross examine witnesses during his trial. I would have shat my pants! Face to face and those eyes were full of black evil.

        One thing that baffled me though, is why he let Elizabeth go unscathed. After 6 years, he just let her go when she left him whilst he was in prison. I thought he would want revenge!

        Do you think it all started because he was devastated by the loss of his first girlfriend who happened to look like most he killed?

        Yes Bibi, HG said the same he can identify empaths when we walk into a bar! Bundy could identify victims by the way they walked – i’m starting to wonder if these two charming Psychopaths are made from the same mould!

        1. lisa says:

          Apart from Bundys complete denial even until the end , never being accountable but blaming porn. The fact he was allowed to have that power and control in the court room was outrageous . He should have been denied the right to defend himself and made to sit there and shut the fuck up unless spoken to , that would have been torture for him . What i always thought about when i saw him interviewed was the level of how grotesque his behaviours were , in particular returning to dead bodies , its hard to comprehend this kind of human being and see him just sitting there like a normal person. But his eyes are dead , i really noticed that about him, he’s probably the most obvious example of the dead eyes i’ve seen. The fact that these sort of mental illnesses detach from humanity in this way , is proof , that you really can never be safe with these people to one degree or another . I wouldn’t want to meet HG on a dark night 😜

      2. Chihuahuamum says:

        Ted bundy killed his male lovers. I think there were dynamics in his family namely with his dad where he was deeply shamed and his sexuality became perversed. His dad in interviews tried to portray the loving parent who was blindsided by what hed done but something felt off. You dont see other closet gay men hiding mannequins in their rooms. I think ted bundy was very mixed up sexually. He was attracted to men but felt such a deep shame it turned his attraction to hatred. I think he felt each kill was him killing his desire towards men yet at the same time he prolonged his victims lives in a way that gave him control sexually over them. They were objects to him but also a reminder of the part of himself he loathed and hid from his parents his sexuality.

        1. J says:

          Are you thinking of Dahmer? Buddy never killed any men and never knew his father.

      3. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi j…ty yes i meant dahmer. I got ted bundy and him mixed up.

  40. lisa says:

    HG, have i read correctly a comment on here that you have killed ? or you have written you have killed ? i’ve obviously missed this confession ? i’m assuming that’s an error ? as your hardly likely to say that ? if it’s about an animal please do not respond , i don’t want to know , thanks

    1. analise13 says:

      Hi Lisa, yes it is correct.
      We need K to call up those relevant comments.
      If I could recall which articles I read them on I would.
      I read them after first coming to blog and have seen them referenced not that long ago too.
      It was definitely human related.

      1. K says:

        Here is one of the comments.
        JULY 5, 2017 AT 18:11
        To Clarify…. I wasn’t referring to a source/appliance. I was referring to a statement HG made on live Q & A, that he HAD KILLED someone and it involved a GUN…


        1. windstorm says:

          My memory is that he killed them with a knife.

          1. Twilight says:

            Self defense

          2. NarcAngel says:

            I thought we had settled on in the bedroom with a toaster.

          3. K says:

            Ha ha ha…Professor Tudor in the Dining Room with a dagger.

            The original Cluedo had a Gun Room.

          4. analise13 says:

            K, Clue was a favourite childhood game.
            I am a enthusiast of guessing games.
            Ie. Dolus Malus
            I envision HG, in the conservatory with the rope or more aptly a garrote( newly named the H G knot)

          5. K says:

            I loved clue when I was a child and I still do! They should make a Tudor version. Most people love a good mystery.

          6. K says:

            There were three live Q & As last summer and it was either the June 26th or July 2nd Q & A when the shooting was mentioned. Memory can be fickle, but I don’t recall that it was a stabbing. That would have been very messy.

          7. windstorm says:

            Yes, my mind is like a sieve. I was remembering it in a comment, not the live Q n As.

          8. K says:

            I agree; those live Q & As are fun!

          9. windstorm says:

            I miss those QnAs.

          10. MB says:

            HG, when we have conversations such as these, do you feel the need to comment? Do you enjoy the scavenger hunt? Is it because it’s already been discussed? When WS says HG did it with a knife in the billiard room, do you not feel your usual need to correct inaccuracies?

          11. MB says:

            So I guess that’s a “no” on feeling the need to comment. Ha ha

          12. SMH says:

            Windstorm, K, Analise, Twilight, etc Just jumping in here about HG killing someone. I have read through the comments so I see that he did (I didn’t know that) and was not incarcerated because it was self-defense or the person was a danger or something like that. I suspect HG was in the military for a time. Maybe his family was trying to ‘straighten him out,’ maybe he was sent to Iraq or Afghanistan, maybe he was in the Special Forces. Any truth to that HG?

          13. windstorm says:

            It’s possible he was in the military. He certainly seems to have worked a lot with the military. I’ve always suspected that his job involves some sort of higher level security.

          14. analise13 says:

            Thank you SMH.
            The use of the word subjects to refer to those he killed,
            is interesting as it suggests multiple people killed and in an experimental or targeted fashion.
            Maybe Hg is a hitman. Jk.
            Where does he say it was in self defence?
            I must have missed that bit.
            He will never tell until his big reveal.
            As of now, he states he worked in an office.
            Travels on business.
            I never took Hg for military.
            But, then one never really knows who or what a narcissist really is.
            As they are cloaked in so much mystery and deceit.
            I guess, time will tell the truth.
            SMH, it would be helpful if Hg could answers some of these questions,
            like Bibi said, without incriminating himself.

          15. lisa says:

            WTF, it’s gone from manslaughter to now multiple people 😱 I’ll have to read this stuff

          16. K says:


            HG Tudor
            JULY 4, 2018 AT 13:33
            Thank you. Hitman HG coming soon!


          17. K says:

            For some reason, I thought it was work related but I am not sure, that’s why I need to listen to the Q & Q again.

          18. Twilight says:


            I believe it is work related or someone made a poor decision and broke into his home threatening him not realizing he is able to protect himself. Or one of many different scenarios that would require self defense.

            I can only speak for myself, if it is self defense I am not going to maim or wound you I am going for a kill, and I wouldn’t expect anything else out of anyone narcissist, normal, or Empath.
            I have been in many situations where maiming someone one makes the situation worse. Trust me some cracked out MF coming at you maiming is not going to stop them.

          19. K says:

            I am with you on this one. I believe in self-defence and stand your ground. Kill the MF.

          20. SMH says:

            No such thing in the UK, K and Twilight.

          21. K says:

            Americans love their guns SMH. My aunt lives in Tennessee and her neighbor shot and killed an armed man who was on his property and threatening to shoot his wife. No charges were pressed. It is like the wild, wild west.

          22. SMH says:

            K, it is like the wild west! I once lived in the south, though not in the deep south. I never saw a gun or heard of anyone shooting someone unless it made the news, but it was awhile ago now. I believe things have gotten worse since the NRA and Russians put Trump in charge.

          23. windstorm says:

            You mean in the UK you’re not allowed to defend yourself in your own home? Or just that you don’t have guns. I can see why the bar would be higher for self-defense because you would likely not be facing an armed assaillant. Here in Kentucky the police assume anyone entering a home with the residents present is armed and prepared to use deadly force. So there is no question asked if we shoot them. It is automatically considered self defense.

          24. SMH says:

            Windstorm, I mean there is no such thing as a stand your ground law. At least I don’t think there is. Of course you can defend yourself but it would be rare for a burglar or a victim to have a gun. Just recently a burglar was killed by a homeowner. The burglar had a screwdriver and the homeowner stabbed him once with a knife. I don’t know if the homeowner was charged but I don’t think so because the burglar had a weapon. The burglar was a member of the Traveller community (ethnic Irish who live like Roma (Gypsies)). I think the homeowner had to go into hiding because the Travellers threatened him. They went every day to the home and left balloons and flowers etc as a memorial to the burglar.

            But these sorts of things are rare. Most violence is gang related or happens in pubs where what is called ‘glassing’ is a favorite. Glassing is when you break a glass and use the jagged edges as a weapon. Throwing acid on someone also happens – usually doesn’t kill but definitely maims. There are all sorts of inventive ways to be violent in the UK. If Brits had guns, there would be as much carnage as in the US.

          25. MB says:

            SMH, thank you for sharing. Why is it that people aren’t armed in the UK? Is there strict gun control?

          26. SMH says:

            MB, as in Australia, where there is now also gun control, there was a massacre in the UK – in Dunblane Scotland about two decades ago. A man walked into a school and killed a bunch of kids. Sound familiar? In both Australia and in the UK private ownership of firearms is now illegal. People will say but in Switzerland everyone owns a gun and the murder rate is low (trying to blame the person rather than the gun). People do have rifles in their homes in Switzerland because every young Swiss man has to do a stint in the army. There are shootings, as there are everywhere, but bullets are controlled so the rate is low.

          27. windstorm says:

            It IS the person’s fault rather than the gun. Left alone guns just stay where you put them and don’t kill anyone. That’s why it’s so important to have extensive training on gun safety and understand the realities of shooting someone, if you live in a gun culture.

          28. SMH says:

            Windstorm, I don’t want to get into an argument about gun control but it is pretty easy to check the stats – countries with gun control (and not at war) have much lower rates of violence than countries without gun control; states with stricter gun laws have lower rates of gun violence than states without. Poor and southern states are some of the deadliest. There are always exceptions but take away guns and there are many fewer homicides and suicides. It’s just logic! But I guess how you feel about it depends on your priorities.

          29. HG Tudor says:

            The genie is out of the bottle though and if you banned all guns in the US there would still be millions of weapons out there (because they are out there already) because criminals, gangs, anti-government types would not surrender them so banning them would not really achieve anything (if a ban could ever be achieved, that being a different matter altogether).

          30. SMH says:

            True the country is awash in guns but logic (!!) suggests that if, say, gun control measures were put in place and enforced, the rate of gun deaths by murder or suicide would drop, as was the case when assault weapons were banned. Australia did go from a gun country to no gun country with a similar ‘Wild West’/frontier mentality.

          31. windstorm says:

            Agreed, HG. Banning guns here would only keep law abiding, honest people from buying new ones.

          32. HG Tudor says:


          33. windstorm says:

            I didn’t think we were arguing about gun control. Obviously if people have no access to guns, they can not shoot themselves or others with them. I was just saying that it is the PEOPLE who do the shooting. The guns are just a tool.

          34. NarcAngel says:

            I know, but I tried shooting with just my fingers and it didnt work as well.

          35. SMH says:

            And I tried shooting off my mouth but missed.

          36. windstorm says:

            Concentrate harder.

          37. K says:

            I agree; I think America needs to revamp its attitude towards mental health, which encompasses suicidal behaviour, the criminally inclined and disordered individuals. It isn’t fair to blame the gun or gun ownership.

          38. K says:

            It is just different perspectives. The majority of gun owners are very responsible; it’s the idiots who abuse them that give gun ownership a bad name. In Massachusetts gun ownership is quite low but in New Hampshire it is quite high (hunting). Rather then punish responsible gun owners, mental health services should be improved to deal with those who are suicidal and mentally unstable individuals should not be allowed to purchase guns.

          39. SMH says:

            But it’s rifles in NH, K (hunting). I don’t think handguns or machine guns serve any purpose except to increase paranoia. I do, however, agree that a lot could be done to improve the situation, mental health services, closing gun buying loopholes, etc.

          40. K says:

            I completely agree with you regarding machine guns, AR-15s, etc., and so do all the responsible gun owners that I have spoken too. Those should be banned and in MA they are, however, it doesn’t prevent someone from driving over state lines to purchase/get one.

            The real issue is Mental Health and loop holes and that really needs to be addressed.

          41. K says:

            I agree, guns aren’t the problem; it is the operator.

          42. MB says:

            SMH, thank you for the information on gun control. I was not aware that private ownership of a firearm is illegal in Australia and the UK. That concept is so foreign to me. As an American, the right to bear arms is written in our constitution. As you know, the “bad guys” will still own guns while the law abiding citizens without guns are without protection. At the end of the day, it is the people that kill and not the guns. I have a hand gun of my own but am afraid of it so it stays locked up and useless. I am not paranoid and violent crime is low where I live. If it’s my time, it’s my time. I agree with our constitution and would not want gun control here. However, I am not an extremist at all. You won’t see me picketing on Capitol Hill!

          43. SMH says:

            MB, I am glad you are afraid of your gun and crime is low where you live. I have never handled a gun myself, and I believe people should be free to have guns for hunting and sports, for instance, but I see no need for handguns or machine guns. I think the 2nd amendment is poorly written but I do understand the mentality (I have a brother in TX).

          44. MB says:

            SMH, my parents taught me to be terrified of guns and I’ve never been properly trained to handle one. The one I have is a cannon. .357 revolver. It would stop a bear. If I was asked to surrender it, I would as a law abiding citizen. But there are many, many weapons on the streets that would not be turned in. I think it would be too little, too late for our country unfortunately. The gun control battle is heated here for some but I don’t have strong views one way or the other.

          45. SMH says:

            Yes, MB, it is unfortunate. Because I live in the UK half the year (more than half, actually), I do notice the difference. I don’t think about guns a lot but it is more peaceful there.

          46. MB says:

            SMH, at least we can rest assured the ambulance starring in HGs latest YT video wasn’t attending to a shooting victim!

          47. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha I thought that might have been picked up.

          48. MB says:

            I hear EVERYTHING and I enjoy it too.

          49. MB says:

            You don’t have the time to listen back do you?

          50. HG Tudor says:


          51. MB says:

            That’s ok, I listen enough times for both of us ha ha

          52. HG Tudor says:

            Hg approves.

          53. windstorm says:

            I’m a law abiding citizen, too, but no way I would surrender my guns. No one knows how many I have and it will stay that way. Someone can find them all when I’m dead and gone.

          54. Twilight says:


            So am I. I have seen to many “criminals” and know banning will not stop them.

          55. Lou says:

            Hi Windstorm. Me again. Would you mind explaining to me why your guns are so important to you? I have had a riffle in my hands only once, so I really do not know anything about weapons. I am just curious as your attachment to guns and would like to understand.

          56. windstorm says:

            Here in Kentucky, guns are a way of life. Most every home has at least one and children are taught to handle guns as early as 5-6 years old. It is not uncommon for a 6 yr old to have their own hunting gun.

            Guns are not just for safety. They’re not just utilitarian. Maybe a good comparison is to cars. Yes cars are for transportation. To get you from point A to point B, but they also can be very beloved. They are status symbols, they reflect your character and are useful in many ways. If you live in a rural area, cars are indispensable because there is no other transportation. At the same time, cars can be deadly, people who don’t know how to drive can be scared of them, and people who live in big cities may never even own one and see them as unneeded.

            Guns are a social thing. People get out guns at family gatherings and have target practice. It’s a lot of fun to shoot them and to try out different guns. Rural communities often have community sheet shoots where they all gather together on a Friday evening and shoot skeet (which is a ton of fun, if you’ve never done it!)

            A couple weeks ago we got out my Judge (.45/410 ga) for my birthday and did target shooting. Three generations all took turns shooting her (I’ve named her Maggie) and we all had a terrific time. Guns bring families together.

            Shooting is a skill that you can perfect. Both shooting and collecting guns are often hobbies that can be very enjoyable and bring you closer to other people. Many people hunt for both pleasure and for food. Being a good shot/successful hunter gives you bragging rights and standing in the community.

            Even when used as defense, guns rarely are used to shoot people. They are used to frighten off dangerous animals and defend your own animals and livestock from attacking animals/predators. Even with human attackers, just showing a gun and that you know how to use it will generally back off an attacker or send a burglar running.

            People from non-gun cultures tend to think of guns as just dangerous things to shoot other people. That is just such a tiny part of what they are. It’s like saying cars are just dangerous things that kill people in the road.

          57. MB says:

            Well said Windstorm! I second all of that. Let’s not forget using guns for celebrations. As in New Years and Fourth of July! The good ole boys (and girls) shoot into the air. Good times indeed.

          58. windstorm says:

            That’s true, MB! When I was young and isolated out on the farm, I always opened my window near midnight on the Fourth of July, Christmas and New Years to hear all the shotguns go off! It made me feel connected with other people that I might never even meet!

          59. Lou says:

            Ok, Windstorm, thank you for explaining so well. I understand better now.

          60. MB says:

            Windstorm, I like you. The fear of my gun is due to having not been properly trained. I’d stand a better chance without it. If I were to brandish it, the perp would take it from me and kill me with my own gun! I’ll never carry one, but boy will I be thankful for the ones that do if I’m ever at a concert or event and there’s an active shooter.

          61. NarcAngel says:

            You have a brother in Texas? Oh dear……


          62. Lou says:

            I hope he is not the same Texan you knew NA.

          63. SMH says:

            Austin, NA. It’s not really Texas. And no, I have no idea and don’t want to!

          64. windstorm says:

            I have a brother/sister in law, niece and great niece in Austin. Keep Austin Weird!

          65. SMH says:

            Indeed, Windstorm. It’s the only place in Texas I’ve ever visited. Did drive through Texas once but all I remember were the signs about being careful of escaped convicts.

          66. NarcAngel says:

            And to think if it werent for that “small” detail we might have been sisters-in-law.

            Bwa hahaha

          67. windstorm says:

            We don’t have a “stand your ground” law here in Kentucky, either. We have to be able to show “probable cause” that we were in fear of our life. Since almost every rural Kentucky home has guns in it, any burglar is assumed to be armed (or incredibly stupid if he breaks in with no gun of his own). So anytime burglars breaks in, homeowners can legitimately claim to be in fear of their lives and shoot them with no consequences.

            Outside of the home is a different story. An old, half-crippled woman like me can claim probable cause if just about anyone attacks her, but a young, strong man would about need someone to pull a gun on him before he could claim to be in fear for his life, since he would be expected to fight the assaillant by hand.

            One of the oft told stories about my FIL was that he went in a bar and a man pulled a knife on him. He went on to fight the man barehanded and knocked him out. Then he went up to the bar and started emptying his pockets looking for his money. He pulled out and laid a loaded gun and brass knuckles on the bar. Everyone was shocked and said, “Why did you fight him barehanded when you had a gun?” He looked at them like they were crazy and said, “It was a knife fight. I didn’t have a knife.” Lol! He was a very colorful and confident man!

            I’ve heard of people in Britain having acid thrown on them. No one would do that acid thing here. It sounds cowardly. A broken bottle would be acceptable for defense, though most people would have a knife or a gun. Certainly any assaillant would be better prepared.

          68. SMH says:

            Windstorm, that is a great story about your FIL. He sounds like a ‘salty’ character and Kentucky sounds more civilized than Florida. A lot of Brits do not understand that things like ‘stand your ground’ are state laws rather than federal laws, since the political system is so different. So when they read about shootings and self-defense they think it is the same everywhere.

          69. K says:

            Damn straight you have the right to use deadly force when dealing with an intruder.

          70. SMH says:

            It would be very unusual to get away with killing someone who broke into your home in the UK, Twilight. It would also be very unusual for someone to break into your home with the intention of killing you. Not saying it didn’t happen but it’s a stretch.

          71. Twilight says:


            I should have said hypothetically, because as you have pointed out the gun laws are different in the U.K. vs US, I didn’t think about that fact either. It changes a situation even a hypothetical one.
            I don’t believe many break into homes with the intention to kill anyone, I believe it happens due to being caught and/or struggle a situation can change quickly from thief to murder.

          72. lisa says:

            Mr Tudor certainly is a busy boy, managing to shoot several people in between his other little hobby playing with matches 🔥

          73. windstorm says:

            Agreed. Never shoot to just maim. Not only will it likely not stop them, but remember, “A dead man can’t testify against you,”

          74. MB says:

            K, I listened earlier. He said it was not military or police but was associated with his profession. He said they needed to be killed and the world was a better place without them. (I’m paraphrasing of course,)

          75. K says:

            Thank you MB
            I had feeling it was work related. Do you remember which Q & A it was and the approximate time?

          76. MB says:

            June 17 part 2…it’s the one that says without buffering (one hopes)

          77. K says:

            Thank you MB!

          78. SMH says:

            K, MB, Analise etc Military would be something work related (though I also just saw MB’s comment).

            If HG killed in self defense in the UK but outside of a special police forces or military context, I would be surprised to hear that he was not prosecuted. Regular people do not get away with that sort of defense in the UK because guns are rare and even the police do not normally carry them. Even if a burglar is in your home and you happen to have a gun, you cannot shoot him. I suppose a knife fight could have happened but again I find it hard to believe that HG got away with killing someone – even in self-defense – in the UK. Had to have been outside the UK unless he was special military or police (e.g. the cops who mistakenly killed the Brazilian student after the tube and bus attacks in London in 2007). Even then, it would be very, very unusual. The world being a better place without them suggests something like ISIS. Also, HG does not connect his arrest to the killing, if what you posted is the complete transcript.

            Hmmm. What a mystery!

          79. K says:

            I hypothesize that HG is very well connected and that his job may be related to anti-terrorism/national security.

          80. SMH says:

            That sounds about right, K.

        2. analise13 says:

          Thank you so much for replying K and confirming it was correct.
          I knew it was not long after I arrived on blog.
          When no one else replied as it being correct,
          I was worried I got it wrong.
          You are awesome K.
          I went searching through blog.
          Found another relevant comment,
          but the two I was thinking of must be pre summer of 2017.

          1. K says:

            You are welcome analise13
            I knew you were correct because I remembered it was mentioned on the Q & A and I remembered reading comments about it, as well.
            Keep up the searches, it gets easier as you continue to do them and it is a great way to navigate around the blog.

          2. analise13 says:

            Thank you K. I appreciate your validation.
            I didn’t add detail of what I hazily recalled,
            As I couldn’t recall the catalyst for him to kill.
            If self defence or rage or revenge.
            Or if it was related to the legal issues and charges ( I recall reading he had been arrested as well, but wrongfully)
            that led to him writing this blog.
            I did not want to write something about that situation that was inaccurate about HG.

          3. K says:

            My pleasure analise13
            My memory is vague but I think it was in self-defence and I may listen to the Q & A again if I have the time. HG has been arrested, however, I do no think the arrest has anything to do with the creation of the blog.
            My understanding is that the Good Doctors encouraged him to write the blog as part of his therapy. The link below explains it pretty well.


            The Arrest:

            NOVEMBER 5, 2016 AT 13:53
            Just wondering if you were ever prosecuted for domestic abuse?
            HG Tudor

            NOVEMBER 5, 2016 AT 16:16

            So Sad
            NOVEMBER 5, 2016 AT 18:33
            Have you ever been arrested though HG ?

            I’m asking because it seems that narcs can manipulate & lie to the police just as much as they do to their targets . And 9/10 it works .

            HG Tudor
            NOVEMBER 5, 2016 AT 19:14
            I have but it was done in error and resulted in legal action.

            So Sad
            NOVEMBER 5, 2016 AT 19:18
            How so HG ? Did you take the legal action ?

            HG Tudor
            NOVEMBER 5, 2016 AT 19:42
            I did indeed.

            So Sad
            NOVEMBER 5, 2016 AT 20:00
            And you won didn’t you . Sigh . But at the same time I could fight any narc that even tries to mess with me now .

            HG Tudor
            NOVEMBER 5, 2016 AT 20:01
            Indeed I did. The facts and the law were on my side.


          4. lisa says:

            Hi, i just read the thread of comments on this link, there’s no where on there that HG says he killed someone and the comment that he did the world a favour that’s why he didn’t go to prison , i don’t think that would be a valid arguement in court !!

          5. Twilight says:


            It was in the Q&A
            If you have time to listen




          6. K says:

            Here it is Lisa.

            HG Tudor
            OCTOBER 4, 2017 AT 14:06
            Hi Sniglet, no I did not apologise. The subjects deserved what happened and I did humanity a considerable favour. I don’t have the exact time it was mentioned in the live stream to hand and would need to listen through it to find it. Much as I like to hear myself speak I do not have the time so you will have to dig it out. It is contained in the live stream from July (the earlier one) which is in two parts and is in the second part if I recall correctly.


        3. analise13 says:

          K, I can’t post link, but the one I found was on the October 2, 2017 article,
          Why the Narcissist Makes it so Difficult. It was Hg reply to Joey.

          1. K says:

            Got it analise13!

            HG Tudor
            OCTOBER 3, 2017 AT 09:33
            I have physically hurt other people, I have killed which I have confirmed previously. I have never said this does not give me fuel, what I have stated (and consistently so) is that I do not do this for fuel because my fuel needs are met in my private life. I do gain some fuel from the blog but it is of a low potency because it comes from tertiary sources – I have always stated that to be the case.
            I have also repeatedly stated what I intend to get from this, so you may wish to extend your reading of my “fluffed up, redundant, pseudo intellectual writings” so you find the answer. Indeed, if you had done so before jumping to your erroneous conclusions you would have already have obtained the answers and therefore your post was, in fact, entirely redundant.


          2. analise13 says:

            Thank you K.

          3. K says:

            You are very welcome analise13.

        4. lisa says:

          Thank you for responding, i’ve missed all of this , so have you served time in prison HG ? For this self defence murder ?
          Have you written on the blog about it ? or is it on youtube Q&A ? thank you

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I have never been incarcerated.

          2. lisa says:

            Where is this information please HG ?

          3. K says:

            It was mentioned in the live Q & A last summer.

          4. lisa says:

            Thank you K & Twilight and everyone for finding this information

          5. K says:

            My pleasure lisa
            I am fairly certain that the shooting was done in self-defence, if I find the time, I am going to listen to the Q & A again.

            If you or anyone else listens can you post the date and time of the discussion. I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

          6. Twilight says:


            Your welcome. I hope you find the time to listen. You may find answers to questions you have not thought of listening.

          7. analise13 says:

            That was one of my points HG.
            That you were not incarcerated.
            Thank you for clarifying that to Lisa.

            K, I did try searching the blog for the comment in question.
            I recall a reader ask HG, if he was ever imprisioned
            and he replied
            To the effect:
            that those caught and imprisioned were stupid or idiots.
            That he was too clever to end up there.
            Hence, high functioning versus low functioning comparison.

          8. K says:

            I think I remember that comment. When did you join narcsite? If I know the approximate date then I can narrow the search.

            Although some searches can be difficult, don’t let that deter you because the more you do it, the easier it becomes.

          9. lisa says:

            HG, so presumably it’s an unsolved case, if you’ve never been charged ? I find it strange you’ve said this publicly on here as sooner or later i’m sure your identity will become known through this blog and books even if it’s several years from now, is this something that the good doctors know about ?

      2. Mercy says:

        I don’t know if I’m more entertained by this conversation or by the fact that K can pull any HG fact out of a hat.

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha…the magic is in the fingers Mercy.

        2. windstorm says:

          Well I’m going with the fact that K can pull facts up at the drop of a hat! Whenever I try to search something on Narcsite, I get nothing! I am in awe of her superpower!

          1. K says:

            Ha ha ha…thanks for the laugh! I am just very lucky and determined.

        3. analise13 says:

          I agree,Mercy.
          Ks chronicling abilities are definitely conversation worthy.
          She never disappoints.

        4. Renarde says:

          It’s a toss up, ain’t it? 🙂

      3. Bibi says:

        I love those Q&As too albeit I work late hours and I am never around when convenient. Save it for the weekend HG. Next one, anyway. Pleeeesssee!!!!

        Or else I will expose your real name to the world, Marvin.

      4. Presque Vu says:


        Legal kills? Would explain no prosecution.

      5. Perse says:

        ‘anti-government types would not surrender them so banning them would not really achieve anything’

        As for me….Molon Labe!

        But, I am curious about HG having a gun on hand at a convenient time.

        Was it a family heirloom? Or does you employment require you to be armed? Was it borrowed? The attackers weapon, turned on himself? You were not in your home country, but where guns are readily available?

        I get the feeling I just asked for another future faking answer. sigh…..

      6. Linda says:

        I am southerner and guns have always been a part of our culture and honestly they are at the wry core of American culture but imo opinion gun prevalence is not nearly what it was say 25 years ago here in the south where we used to ride around in our trucks with guns mounted on racks on the back window in full display. I grew up with that and thought nothing of it and no one feared guns at all

      7. Lori says:


        While I won’t speak about other countries, in the states where gun ownership is high or has increased violent crime is down. There is not a gun problem. There is mental health problem that has continued to be overlooked and unaddressed . That is where the issue lies. We continue to see mentally ill people act out with all kinds of weapons. If they don’t have a gun, they find another means. There comtinues to be a problem with people having access to mental health services. Their insurance either doesn’t cover it or they can’t get into see anyone for sometimes months at a time. I know this because when I was in therapy, my therapist was booked months out and if you need to see an actual psychiatrist as much as 6 months out. That is where the real problem lies. I loved therapy and would have continued but was pretty much kicked out for being “too healthy ” therapist said Lori you know now that you are Codepebdent and what caused it and skills to deal with it. You don’t need me anymore as much as some others

    2. Presque Vu says:

      What the actual fuck??
      You are joking right??

      1. K says:

        There is never a dull moment on narcsite Presque Vu.

        1. Renarde says:

          Goodness me no. My jaw dropped open when I read that this morning! Wow!

          1. K says:

            HG is a mover and a shaker.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            All I know is that HG slays as a writer and educator, with intelligence and humour.

      2. Bibi says:

        HG once took a cord and strangled a toaster. I vaguely recall this killing nonsense yet I also recall HG saying this wasn’t true in some faraway thread I am not about to sift for.

        He is not about to say anything that might incriminate him, so forget it. I’m just glad he admitted to me in private his real name. He promised me not to tell but just this once I think it would be alright. Marvin Toadswapper. Poor guy!!!

        (But he really goes by Jim/John? Smith but don’t tell anyone.)

        1. analise13 says:

          I sifted through so many past articles and comments.
          I do not have the skills that K does for finding information.
          Ha ha, Bibi. What an alias there.

  41. BlueFalcon says:

    Hello Xena, my OP was in regards of Tudor making an interpretation base on Watts recount of what took place the day of the murder, I understand Tudor does not agree with it, he explained this to me already on his response..

    Thank you

    1. SuperXena says:

      You are welcome BlueFalcon.

  42. Ema says:

    This is interesting, an interview with his gay lover.
    The guy says “He portrayed himself as a victim. He was one of the most gentle people I’ve ever met” ….

  43. BlueFalcon says:

    I agree with almost everything you said here, however I don’t agree in the part you stated “Christopher killed his wife after finding out she killed the girls” it will be hard to proof this, and understand your logic Tudor, as you are narcissistic yourself that you will find the logic on his process thinking and you maybe right however, I truly believe he killed them ALL, you know. very well that Narcissist have a hard time separating reality from fiction, this is something you should know personally Tudor, he knows everyone knows he killed them and he lied about this ONLY to open the wound and leave the seed of the doubt for the rest of us to the point there will be at least one person to believe him, if he can get 1 of a million he won to believe He killed his wife after finding out she killed the girls this is all he wants, he knows exactly what he did but in his head, it’s more of having the last word and having people to beg him for the truth, I say this because I was married with someone just like him, I was lucky enough to leave alive the relationship but can assure there was a huge lesson I learned from him..

    This speculation is not unfounded and you know it’s very possible because this is what you guys are made off, you are driving by the seed and work people off with speculation knowing damn well you are lying, Christopher is lying about everything!

    I agree with you about the interview in fact my first observation was how he used “I” and how his body language was speaking loudly about the Crime he had committed.

    Narcissist that snap like Christopher did will do it only when they feel trap and no way out, losing control of situations is dead to you parasites, yes he acknowledges his “emotional conversation “ with Shannan but she just came back from a trip he is a cheater by nature however it seems to me Shannan as the empath she was will no longer be accepting to watch in sidelines while he cheat specially after been pregnant, what i am saying with this is that females 90 % of the time are highly emotional during pregnancy, if she came home that day and for some reason found out by email he was having another affair not only with females but with man this would have been ground for her to demand a separation, I think Christopher was more worry to have his sexuality been expose which is a reason to snap for your weak kind and the air you guys need to breathe, it was no purpose to keep the girls alive because all they represent is a problem, an obstacle for him, he being a narcissist couldn’t cope with the idea of explaining himself to other and even his own children if he only killed Shannan therefore he ended them all, so he can start from scratch, I think he really believes he will get away with this, his face on interviews said it all, he was empty as you said and with no remorse the only remorse he may have had is that he got caught because he was sloppy and he knows this which is a win for any of us empaths out there. This is how your kind needs to be broken down to, you guys need to see him as an example as how you won’t alway win, I will be watching in the sidelines watching until the day we start prosecuting all of you before you take someone else life, soon we won’t have to wait and become Shannan, soon you guys will be broken into pieces by someone that knows exactly how break you to the point you become your own target and your self distruction will be the end of your kind!!

    BlueFalcon #Imyourworstenemyandyourkriptonite

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Read it again. You have misunderstood. I am referring to his version of events, I do not agree with it.

      1. BlueFalcon says:

        I do understand you don’t agree with it, but I want to know if you understand why was his reasoning he had for this morning particula lie? That lie was a huge red flag for me that unveiled a twisted side of you guys.
        I read your article and you are basically giving your input of how he said things took place, however I want to step a little forward out of “his” statement and hear what’s your reasoning about this particular lie he said?
        Thanks for engaging and giving a clear perspective of what’s lies behind your kind to your readers!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Which lie are you referring to?

      2. BlueFalcon says:

        We’ll you stated you didn’t agree with his statement on what took place the day he killed his wife and for what I read you use his own recounts of the events to bring his traits as the lesser narcissist he is (which I agree heartily) then I want to know if you don’t believe on his recount of events specifically when he stated “he killed her after watching her killing his children” I wonder what you think that will be the purpose for him to even lie about killing Shannan after she killed the girls?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No. Re-read the article. I rely on

          1. Watts’ evidence.
          2. Information from the friend Nickole Atkinson.
          3. Information from the arrest affidavit.
          4. Information from Trent Bolte.
          5. Information from news reports.
          6. Information from Shannan Watts’ facebook postings.

          In ascertaining the Watts’ traits, not just his own evidence.

          As I stated in the article, his lie about killing Shanann after she killed the girls is based on seeking to avoid culpability for first degree murder based on
          (a) The children were murdered by their mother ; and
          (b) His act was not pre-meditated when he murdered Shanann but was an instinctive act of rage after seeing his children murdered.

          Again, as I pointed out, his low cognitive function makes this a poor lie, but a lie nonetheless for the reasons stated.

          1. analise13 says:

            Interesting HG. Did you study the victims, Fb page prior to writing this article?

      3. Bibi says:

        Blue Falcon’s post made me laugh with the misspelled warnings sprinkled within: “your self distruction will be the end of your kind!!”

        I’ll get you Tudor! You and your kind! Bahahahaha.

        I am hearing this in the bad guy voice from Inspector Gadget.

        Anyway, Watts’ logic (I assume advised by his legal council) was that if he could get off in a fit of rage for killing Shanann the crime could be lessened to 2nd degree murder, which carries a much lesser sentence.

        But he has till November to enter a plea, I believe. Too bad he wasn’t in Utah as they still perform firing squad as a form of execution.

        But right now Watts is isolated for 23 hrs a day and is given no reading material or weights to lift. For a somatic, the reading material is neither here nor there but no weights! OMG!

        His arms will be as atrophied as his cognitive functioning in due time.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Bahaha (the atrophy). I dont want him shot. I want him to be tortured with verbal monologues 24 hours day by Mids, Cerebrals, and Victims so he loses both his shit and his mind. Also, to be bound to and presented daily on a giant twirling lazy susan where he will be used as a cum dumpster for the most violent offenders. He will be nicknamed the Wide Receiver. He will be fed only Cheetos and water and yes, no weights and no mirrors.
          When I think about it and get really mad I’ll let you know what else I come up with.

        2. BLueFalcon says:

          Bibi, how many languages do you speak? Would you be able to translate my post if i wrote in Spanish or Italian? Because I will love to see you write in at least 3 different languages for you to try to make fun of others,I’m sure if you speak in my mother language your grammar will be ten times worse than my grammar in English, what’s sad of all this is that people like you love to dim the light of those that try while you have absolutely no credentials on your own to do better, when people misspell in my language, I never make fun of them as a matter of fact, it admirable in my book anyone that step out of the comfort zone to learn something new, the different between people like you and me is that even when I come across with people like you, I don’t get discouraged, this is why I am replying to you so you can see more words misspelled and see that people like you are very small in my book!
          I’m sure you are in this website because you are narcissist yourself? Because to be honest there is absolutely no explanation for someone to be this rude but let me break it down to you with my “broken English” if this is your contribution to a community that comes to this page to look for answers and understanding please retract your self righteous ass and take it where you came from! SMFGDH

          In response to what I posted here, I already got the answer I needed from the person that has the knowledge which is Tudor he gave me the answers and cleaify to me what needed, your input is no needed and I don’t need you to understand my post either (This is why my Inspector Gadget voice) insert sarcasm 👀
          Stay in your lane


          1. SuperXena says:


            English is not my first language either so I completely understand your indignation. Articulating some ideas in one’s First Language is sometimes difficult enough being even more challenging in a foreign language( second or third language).

            I must say that those type of comments do not occur often here . It is very rare. Actually, I was surprised by this type of comment . First time I witnessed that.

            The majority of the bloggers here ( as well as the moderator) are respectful to each other.This is one of the reasons why this site is very successful with its dynamic of exchange of knowledge, ideas and experiences. It has its own “code of conduct “.

            With the risk of ending up in the line of fire, I feel compelled to write this to you:

            1. The reaction of some bloggers to your first comment was perhaps awakened by the transparency of your projected hatred and aggression towards the “wrong” person.
            Something that is witnessed several times here and is understandable to a certain degree but not acceptable if the comments turn to be ad hominem attacks .As it was perceived by some.

            2. I perceive your answer to the comment of your misspelling as disrespectful as the original comment.

            The thing is that if you continue answering fire with fire the outcome would probably be just ashes, burning all bridges of communication. Cutting off any possibility of exchange of ideas . In other words: responding an eye for an eye ( following the law of retaliation) the result will probably be that you and your counterpart will end up blinded.

            I do understand though your indignation but I do not fully understand the way of expressing it.

            I hope you do not feel discouraged by that comment and that you can continue participating here.

            ( as you have renamed me having perhaps problems with the prefix “Super” of my pseudonym?)

      4. Bibi says:

        All good ideas, Narc Angel. I can tell you I wouldn’t piss on this guy if he were on fire.

        If anyone is interested, now I have more of a clear picture of the somatic Middle Lesser, The Scorsese film Goodfellas–Ray Liotta’s character is a great example of a somatic Middle Lesser.

        I used to think he might be an Upper, due to his financial gains achieved throughout the film, but now I have that clear picture in mind and he is definitely a Middle Lesser.

        They tend to be street smart over book smart (though not sure how street smart Watts is) and they are not good with verbal articulation, words and nor do they have an extensive vocabulary. They’re very matter of fact in their approach.

        Being somatic, they are very sensory, and then of the Lesser school, they tend to steer away from abstract concepts. Like Watts, he clearly valued nice house, playing up the dad image with doting wife, looking buff, working out, going on trips to places that tend to lean towards partying and where they can be seen (pool sides in San Diego or casinos in Las Vegas–very touristy shit).

        You probably won’t find very many who escape into nature for a week at a time, unless they can boast with their photos and rocks they have climbed. But even they are still more about talking and bragging about it than actually doing it.

        Clearly the image was more important to Watts than having secure money in the bank and saving.

        I can say that even though I am not the typical ‘Sitting Target’ for a somatic, generally speaking, I still had one worm his way in via playing the ‘misunderstood bad boy’ who had a troubled life, then they are eying you and they look pretty and buff and you think, ‘Wow I must be hot shit if he wants me.’

        I found myself withholding my knowledge/wit from him because I didn’t want him to think I was making him feel stupid. It’s subtle but I felt myself doing it nonetheless. So I would stick to more surface discussions (any talk of books or abstract ideas are not going to work with a somatic anyway, esp. a Lesser) and even though I did not find his discussions engaging, my emotional thinking said, ‘He is trying at least.’

        But really I just thought he looked good. So I made excuses.

      5. Bibi says:

        Yes Blue Falcon, I am a narcissist myself and that is why I am on this website. I love being a narcissist.

        I was joking in my post because you were throwing silly threats at HG–someone who is trying to educate, albeit I realize you did not mean it maliciously and were just being hyperbolic, hence my Inspector Gadget remark. However it’s clear that humor escapes you.

        I am sure you speak more languages than I yet I can guarantee I have written more books than you. So you are mediocre in many while I master in one? Can we leave it at that? Your long post indicates a defensiveness with which I do not bother to engage.

        And I was gonna say you’re pretty good at dishing it but not taking it but then I see you’re not really good at dishing it either. Good day to you. Adios.

        (That’s Spanish.)

      6. Bibi says:


        I replied to your post, but HG has yet to post it. But just to follow up–I was thinking about what you wrote, and my poking fun of your misspelling I realize could have really just been a typo. I wasn’t trying to imply you were bad at English.

        I have posted plenty of times where I forget an ‘a’ or ‘of’ or ‘the’ and it looks like shit in my mind, afterwards. I actually thought the attitude in your initial post was fun and entertaining, hence why I responded as I did with just a bit of sass.

        My humor is not for everyone. I am grouchy a lot of the time anyway so this is how I get it out, lol. I recently offended someone b/c I compared pop culture to rape, as a matter of fact. Talk about politically incorrect.

        I have even teased HG too hard I thought sometimes and felt badly afterwards. I know your initial post was honest and you were just expressing your thoughts.

        I know HG does not need anyone to voice for him but I have a tendency when I see someone being wrongfully accused (in in your case, misread, as I thought HG expressed himself clearly and concisely), I’ll speak up even if that person I am defending happens to be a sociopath.

        I don’t like to have fights and I know you’ve here probably because you have undergone some shit. You’re free to believe I am a narcissist, as I have never denied having some of those traits.

        Anyway. I got defensive just as well. All the best to you.

      7. Bibi says:


        You make some good points and had I known my comment would have been seen as disrespectful I would not have made it. I was just poking fun due to the intensity of Blue Falcon’s original post, and hence I didn’t think it would offend.

        I certainly would not want to discourage someone from posting. I will try to be more mindful in the future.

        My apologies.

        1. SuperXena says:

          Apology accepted Bibi and thank you for your comment.
          I have read many of your comments and I was mostly surprised coming from you. I have learned to appreciate your way of teasing and I know you do (did) not want to be offensive.

          I do understand as well the reaction ( I feel sometimes the same way as you do) when the hatred and aggression is projected towards the wrong person.

          Although the original comment was not aimed at me , it is very strong of you to offer an apology.

          Your participation here gives a humorous and glad touch to this blog!

    2. SuperXena says:

      Hello BlueFalcon,
      I had to read your comment several times as well as this post before writing to you.
      My interpretation of this post is different from yours.
      As a matter of fact ( according to me) the post does not agree , accept or states as being true the hypothesis that he did not kill his children( or vice versa).

      I wonder: which statement on the post made you believe the agreement of Watts not killing his children ?

      As I interpret it , the post presents a neutral analysis of the two scenarios with the aim of describing which are the underlying psychopathic and narcissistic behaviours detected.
      This is very clear to me on the following statements and quoting:

      “One might have expected Watts to have sought to help his children, to see if they could be saved. The failure to do so evidences a lack of empathy for their well-being and also suggests that he did not attend to their well-being because there was no point, because he had killed them. Perhaps he did not attend to them because he knew they were dead and killed by their mother so he felt it pointless, but anybody with emotional empathy would more likely have tried to help the children (even if futile – their emotional thinking overriding the logic of the situation).”

      According to me of the analysis presented here, the following statement is the more likely to be true:

      “….The failure to do so evidences a lack of empathy for their well-being and also suggests that he did not attend to their well-being because there was no point, because he had killed them”.

      I personally came to the above stated conclusion (Watts killing his children) because (based on the analysis presented on this post ):
      Watts is a low-functioning narcissistic psychopath with no empathy, low cognitive empathy, deflecting behaviour, lack of awareness, pathological lier, huge sense of entitlement, callousness, no impulse control,no remorse and very low cognitive functioning.

  44. Kelly says:

    Very good! I knew there was something not right about him while watching him on the news when it happened. He was so unnatural. But I didn’t realize he was a narcissist or know this much of the background story. I don’t know how you found all that out, but great article. One other thing- they were having financial problems & had filed bankruptcy. Thanks, this was good, and it’s not really on the news in the UK even, great work.

  45. analise13 says:

    HG, bravo!
    What an excellent new article and analysis.
    Absolutely, brilliant. Again.

    I haven’t received any notifications since August 23rd.
    So didn’t even know you had written a new article until I looked at recent comments.
    It wasn’t even listed in WP.

    You did not mention In your article that he also killed his unborn child, as his wife was pregnant.

    HG, so you think this narcissist killed his partner and their two young children because the affair was found out?
    Since narcissists feel they are entitled to cheat.
    Did the narcissist feel threatened
    and exposed and become wounded over loss of control,
    And feared loss of a stable fuel source and his family man facade?
    ie his partner not accepting the behaviour,
    nor the infidelity and was perhaps planning to leave with children.
    Which would be a massive ego blow and loss of fuel to the narcissist.

    I was thinking a middle lesser somatic narcissist.
    Lesser due to the quick violent nature and inability to maintain facade,
    Psychopath due to lack of any empathy and accountability.

    A mid range would feign cognitive empathy and accountability for the affair.
    Utilize more pity plays for sympathy,
    as the abused, neglected partner,
    who reacted to the murder of his children
    Became overcome by a sudden rage.

    A mid range also would express more pretend grief and pretend remorse, facially or otherwise.
    I can see your analysis of the wife,
    she knows how her husband behaves,
    Perhaps a hidden fear of him
    his infidelities and she is ashamed and wants to maintain and create an acceptable image of family.
    Almost wishing it to be true.
    For herself and her children.

    His affair evidences his lack of care or empathy for his family and a self of entitlement.
    Long before he murdered them all in a fit of rage.
    The affair was a way for him to seek more exciting,
    Less stale fuel,
    in contrast to that of his always adoring partner.
    Whom he grew bored with.

    Was the wife, co dependent HG?

    Hg do you think none of the actions were calculated or planned, with Watts being a lesser?
    That he was instinctually overcome by rage/fury
    at his loss of control over his appliances( partner and two children)
    that he reacted and killed them all.
    I doubt he planned to separate either,
    despite claim of being in a loveless marriage
    he had ( or thought he did )
    a complacent partner who tolerated the affairs or knew nothing of them
    and the abuse and neglect to maintain the family illusion.

    Her lack of understanding to what her partner was
    Her maintenance of the happy family facade
    Made him feel safe to continue to do as he wanted.
    Risk taking behaviors.
    The threat of loss of control and exposing the facade provoked his fury.

    Too bad she didn’t know what he was and found and consulted you
    For a plan to get herself and her children away from him.
    Why your work is so invaluable!
    But, his reactive temper would have manifested at some time, it was inevitable.
    He would have tracked her down and committed the same violent acts.

    Why do you think he so quickly shifted to an admission of guilt.
    If he has no sense of conscience or culpability?
    Was it was because his construct was now damaged
    and he was unable to maintain his facade of victimhood and innocence?
    He doesn’t have the cunning intelligence to continue with a credible lie.
    So, he confessed instead.
    Perhaps, later on devise a diffent arguement of battered husband,
    cheating wife, she abused children, ptsd, steroids, sleep deprivation and so forth.
    Or any blame shifting manipulation.
    Or is he done and will now buckle under the pressure to confess entirely
    And become consumed by his creature and self pity?

  46. Alessa says:

    Couldn’t wait to read this… When I first saw the eyes of this man with no expression (compared with the exaggerated smile of his wife) I thought that something was very wrong about this. Indeed I had a first thought that he could be a psycopath… This analysis is just brilliant. Thank you very much HG, you teach us so much about human beings. It is a pleasure to read you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you and you are welcome.

  47. NarcAngel says:

    I think the reason he killed his children was not because they were witnesses but much more callous-because they were in his way. He did not want to care for them or pay for them now that their mother was gone. They served no purpose for him. They were just a hindrance or an obstacle to his plan and freedom going forward in pursuit of better fuel.

    1. windstorm says:

      I agree with that. Once the wife was dead, the little girls were just an encumbrance he didn’t want to be saddled with. He just wanted freedom at that point to focus on other relationships. The girls may have even slept thru his killing their mother and not witnessed anything.

    2. Bibi says:

      The girls were disposable appliances. No need for them anymore. A few other things I read:

      When they visited her family in NC, the people there who came across them (her mother’s coworker in a beauty salon and also a random woman beside a trampoline when they kids were there bouncing) both women said that he was very aloof and distant and not warm or friendly at all.

      I also heard a neighbor claim that the two of them got into a fight in the driveway (arms flailing about and angry gestures) but immediately when they saw that someone was watching them, they went from ‘anger to a hug in 30 seconds.’

      The neighbor didn’t think much of fight because she says she fights w her own husband sometimes, but rather how their responses changed so suddenly when they knew someone was watching.

      This is an odd case because of the social media picture vs. real life. I really hope this can get awareness out about the danger of these types. This is absolutely the worst thing that can happen. GOSO!

      And that he drags his wife’s name through the mud afterwards is even more despicable.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Yes. It helps to expose what a lie social media is and why it is pointless to keep looking at it for clues or answers. For the most part it represents what people wish their life to be but not the reality. People worry about their kids smoking pot, drinking, or talking to strangers but fail to recognize the dangerous gateway drug to addiction that is Fakebook because they worship it themselves.

    3. /iroll says:

      NarcAngel, he was in the auric phase, he killed the children because they were an inseparable extention of his fears and self-loathing, which he can’t process in any clear way. The feelings are instinctive and the response to them is impulsive. On a day to day basis he’s disconnected from those feelings, he is ‘bored’ and is seeking something to excite him. He finds it and it grows into another lifeworld that’s separate from his ’normal’ life. The collision between those worlds is a traumatic experience. They call it the lucid madness. After the auric phase is over, reality gradually seeps back and depression hits. But what his instincts at the time were trying to do, was to protect him from his feelings.

      So you see, the idea that psychopaths are simply more rational people, free from ‘weak human emotion’—is a myth. Power is also an emotion, so are impulses and instincts. He’s a mentally ill person.

      1. nunya biz says:

        iroll, can you explain “auric phase” and “lucid madness”?
        I am curious to explore these topics.

      2. /iroll says:

        Ok maybe not pure instinct, but when instincts are frustrated = emotion.

        Imagine your existence is turned right down to an instinctive level, then suddenly ‘emotion’ appears as epic frustration that becomes rage: you want to destroy me! I’m a god! —then, that collapses and you feel depressed and weak. You beat yourself up for having weaknesses, “if you don’t steel your resolve and control your impulses you’ll be a total loser.” —Because your brain doesn’t speak the language of emotional empathy and there’s no depth, compassion or nuance.

        Making others the victim in your place, comes from self-loathing, which you’ll do anything to protect yourself from. Only certain types of broken people (not to be confused with the oppressed because broken people can also be privileged), buy into ‘transcendence through predation’ myths.

        Being a prisoner of instinct is not a superpower.

      3. Renarde says:

        Don’t really agree. Even someone as clearly daft as him would have been better to NOT have killed those children.

        I rather suspect, they witnessed the crime itself and were not asleep in bed. The repercussions of what would have been going through their minds; the utter TERROR. Fuck. Me.

        I postulate this is how it might have happened. I could be very wrong.

        The mother puts her kids to bed. Sits him down for the ‘relationship talk’. This is very possibly the ONLY time in the day that a mother could have this kind of talk uninterrupted. She is still unaware of the danger she is in. She is still trying to do the reasonable thing. The decent thing. Even after all that she has undergone. Not because of him but because of her children.

        ‘It HAS to end. Please leave or I will take the children and go elsewhere. I cannot cope anymore.’ The row begins. It wakens the children. In his rage; he murders her. It is witnessed. He goes after the children.

        This is a big thread with many comments and we haven’t heard much in the UK but IF I have just read correctly, the woman was pregnant? This is a KEY trigger in cases of domestic violence. It takes the attention away from the male as the woman naturally focuses on her child. This would have made her especially vulnerable. Not just physically but psychologically.

      4. Lori says:

        I think y’all are giving this guy way too much credit. I dont think he was thinking anything when he did this but more feeling utter and uncontrollable rage. Most narcs don’t want to kill you that’s the loss of a fuel source. A lesser is likely to do this very impulsivel. I think those kids were killed because they were there and he was unleashing his fury.

        I was with a lesser and their fury can be sudden and explosive

      5. Lori says:

        I think he is likely pissed that he did this as he is now without 3 appliances

        Like I toddler that breaks his toys when they don’t work the way he wants them too and is then upset that he can’t play with it anymore

    4. K says:

      I completely agree with you and NA.

  48. HappyTimesAhead says:

    We know Watts originally lied and denied knowledge of the whereabouts of his pregnant wife and two daughters. During police interviews I assume he had legal counsel. He then admitted to wife’s murder as retaliation for her alledged killing of their two girls; instructing the authorities to examine the girls’ necks for the wife’s DNA. Post mortem will hopefully pinpoint times of deaths. When Shanann returned home,again we only have Watts word that they argued and his timeline of events. How do we know Watts acted alone, or that Bella and Celeste weren’t already dead or even disposed of and the grave already dug? He only had 2-3 hours of Shanann arriving home, killing all 3 and deciding where and how to dispose of them, if this was an off the cuff non premeditated murder, before leaving at 5 am to work. I think Shanann arrived home, found the girls dead or missing, and she was immediately attacked by Watts. Chilling. HG, will you update your assessment of Watts as more information comes to light, although I doubt it will change.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If time permits me to do so.

    2. HappyTimesAhead says:

      Update: On YT a group have posted a video recording of the journey from the Watts’residence to the burial site. They say this is a hobby? I digress … the journey took 50-60 minutes, which means an even narrower window to murder, transport and dispose. The burial place is on a vast ranch, meandering dirt tracks, no overhead lighting. He did this in absolute darkness, I’m not sure when sunrise was. His familiarity with the area and remoteness – was the oil tank no longer in use? – was a considered choice. Was the grave shallow as he ran out of time due to sunrise, was the ground too hard, or he had to report to work on time? I still feel this was premeditated, but if it wasn’t he certainly kept a cool head in their disposal. The chances of finding the remains were narrow, so why did he reveal this? His arrogance must have tripped him up.

  49. shesaw says:

    Wow HG, I never did a consultation with you, but it must be something like this. Clear, intelligent and convincing.

    If this man Watts is to have a legacy, then let it be that his terrible act will open the eyes of many to what narcissism really is.

    Since Watts is not able to hide much of his narcissism, this case is very apt to educate people, and to make them see behind the smoke curtains of the more intelligent types.

    Reading this brilliant analysis removed the lasts shreds of the MR’s attraction to me.

    I admire how you create your legacy, HG. I believe it costs you a lot – and it rewards you a lot.
    To know yourself like you do and to share your experiences with us, must be like creating another self again. Fully aware, this time. I love to believe that the creation of this self is an honest attempt to deal with the false one. It must feel like a catch 22 – that is when I think about it with my NT mind. Is it likewise for you, or am I simply missing the compartmentalization-skill…?

    Anyways. You help me a lot. Actually you rekindled the light in me after I lost that light ‘thanks to’ the MR. I can see clearly again. Thank you for that, HG. Thank you for being you. You are a treasure.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed and you are welcome.

    2. Renarde says:

      Alas, whilst I am in total agreement with your statement about ‘enlightenment’. It won’t happen. Not yet. It will though, with time. I do not personally believe we live in those ‘diamond’ times. We are trespassing on those edges though. At some point (and who really knows when), it will happen. When it does, expect a paradigm shift in how all of humankind relates to each other.

      In my opinion, the majority of people will believe he brutally murdered all three. They will do this out of the valid belief that most women are murdered by men they know intimately and thus will follow that they will also believe he also murdered the children. This is an understandable notion but it does not excuse that fact that women (but in much lesser numbers, granted), also kill men. They will not understand the reasons he had for doing so. THAT is the key difference.

      Looking at the pictures of them as family, who can guess what that women endured or what the children were exposed too? I would hazard a guess that she was the typical ‘frog in the cold saucepan of water’. By the time she realised what she had married, the kids were there (or she had become emotionally tied – happens to us all). And she then was bound.

      Going further, I would also speculate that she had been abused herself as a child. Very possibly sexually and if not that it would have been emotional neglect. Not physical neglect though. Not one bit. This poor lady would have presented herself as a girl who desperately wanted to please her parents. very possibly her father. Mother would have stood by and enabled the torment that she undoubtedly endured because she had too much to lose herself.

      Her father was a middle No doubt in my mind. But he ruled the roost. He will have been in a role which brought the money in. In sufficient quantities but not that they were VERY wealthy.

      Watch her mothers’ coming reaction as it all unfolds.

      I just want to add, for any person to murder, so callously, those three people. Words cannot even.

      But they do say, the real justice is meted out in jail. Good luck on that solitary confinement there!

  50. Blank says:

    Very interesting read HG, I like those “A very..” Thank you very much!

    And I think all people are capable of murder. I know I am, since last year.
    I could not physically harm a single soul, I always thought.
    Last year when I was in therapy, at one time, all the anger I had collected in my life, came out at once. As if someone opened the door to my internal hell. The anger and rage I felt was enormous. If I’d had a gun, I could have shot someone, just anyone. I have locked myself in my room for a couple of days, untill I felt it was gone.
    Honestly, I hope to never have to experience this again. It scared the hell out of me, it still does, thinking about it. But now I understand one of the reasons why people kill, a life long collected anger that comes out when triggered.
    Thinking about this with regard to my children.. I hate it when they play games and yell and curse, but I will allow it, because I think they need to express their anger and frustrations. By playing games I think that is how they unload this. At least I hope so.

    There is a story behind every murderer. We feel compassion for the victims, but not for the murderer. Who made this man a killer?
    It’s one of life’s dilemma’s. We want clearity, we want good and bad, black and white, but there is a whole grey area that we continually need to explore and examine. Brain research is very important, but also we need to discuss how society functions, the fakeness of social media, the moral standards (why do people still have to hide their sexual indentity) etc..All very interesting and hardly ever discussed among people in daily life.

    1. Lori says:

      This was not a thought out plotted incident. He didn’t wake up that day and say I’m gonna kill my family nope. She confronted him on something could have been anything and boom his fury was ignited and this is how it played out

      1. Blank says:

        Right Lori, and then you wonder what the cause was of his internal fury…

      2. Lori says:

        Honestly, it could have been anything like exposure or she’s leaving or he didn’t like his breakfast but I don’t believe it was premeditated or well thought out. Lessers function by instinct. Look at Oj he didn’t do to Nicoles house to kill her but when he saw Ron Goldman he went into a rage they we as non Narcissists comprehend but it’s somewhere along the lines of a psychotic break I bet truth be known he’s pissed he did it 3 appliances gone just like that

      3. Lori says:

        Sorry for the typos i meant to say a rage that we as non narcissists cant comprehend

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Next article