You Sicken Me


We are strong, powerful and impervious to illness or injury. We are a bastion of invulnerability, a veritable shining example of radiant health and vitality. Our superiority means we stand head and shoulders above everyone else and the weakness that comes with ill health and infirmity is not something that affects us. Except when we decide it must. That is when we play the sickness card. There are three instances, in the main, when we do this.

The first is when we do actually suffer from some illness or an injury. It may just be a fractured eyelash but to us we have been blinded with a red hot poker. The pain, good Lord the pain, it is too great and intense. It wracks us and has us twisted up in agony. Come on empath, do something. Do something now. Soothe our fevered brows, splint our broken limbs and bind our wounds. You must drop anything and everything. Forget being at work today, you must call in and excuse yourself no matter how inconvenient, for you are required to don a nurse’s outfit and do your best Florence Nightingale impression for us. This slight snuffle is pneumonia you know and to top it all it is your fault. You insisted on the window of the bedroom being left open, now see what you have done. I may not last the week. You would like that wouldn’t you, you ungrateful bitch after everything that I have done for you. You did it on purpose. You wanted me to be ill so you could see me suffer. That is how nasty and selfish you are. Is it any wonder I have been off with other women when this is how I am treated by somebody who is supposed to love me? Yes the smallest spot, minor ache and slight cough are all that is needed to enable us to declare that we are on our death beds. It is good for several uses. First of all, we will use it to avoid doing things such as household chores or attending an event that you wanted to go to. Secondly, it means you must give us plenty of attention by looking after us. Those soothing words and hot water bottles brought to our bedside all provide us with fuel. Thirdly, we are able to provoke you by being demanding and castigating you for not living up to expectations. You didn’t bring that hot lemon drink soon enough or those are the wrong pills. We will compare you to others, ” My mother would do a better job of looking after me than you.” All of which is designed to cause a reaction from you.

The second occasion on which we will play the sickness card is when you are ill or injured. We are not here to look after you. Good Lord, not at all. Why should we? That is not our role. We are too busy looking for fuel and we do not have the time or energy to spend engaged in nursing you. Not only of course are we devoid of the concept of feeling that we should care and that we should feel sorry and compassionate for someone who is unwell, we do not regard it as a task that is worthy of someone as brilliant as us. If you moan enough so that we are compelled to call out a doctor we will pronounce our own diagnosis in order to align ourselves with the brilliance of the medic. When he concludes what ailment it is you are suffering from we will declare,

“Yes, I said to her that that was what was wrong with her, but she won’t listen to me doctor, she insisted on getting you out. I am sorry she has wasted your time.”

We get to denigrate you and upset you whilst showing off how clever we are because we knew what was wrong with you (even though we did not) and the doctor accords with us. We may as well steal a segment of the doctor’s brilliance for our construct whilst he is here mightn’t we?

We will then invite the doctor to examine our shoulder or leg as we go to great lengths explaining how much pain we are in. This keeps the spotlight firmly on us and has you annoyed that we have hijacked your consultation. We will look to declare we are far worse off than you. You have a cold, well we have flu. We will use this as an opportunity to accuse you of attention seeking (nice bit of projection there) as we point out how selfish you are for being ill when we are. We have no interest in tending to you and we need to make the situation all about us. Accordingly, we will fake an illness or an injury in order to trump yours.

The third reason as to why we will play the sickness card is when we are low on fuel and low on energy. There may be any number of reasons why this state of affairs has arisen. You may be getting wise to some of our manipulative behaviour and therefore you are not reacting as often so that the level and quality of fuel that you provide is reduced. We may also have a natural dip in our energy levels or feel some degree of vulnerability which means that our resources are being stretched rather thin. This makes it difficult for us to seek out additional sources of fuel. This diminution in fuel reduces our power and this risks the craven creature that lurks within trying to escape and making itself heard. When this happens, the creature’s whisperings remind us of our weakened selves. We are not ill. We are not injured. What we are however is feeling weakened, as if we are ill or injured. Accordingly, we play the sickness card in order to obtain an emergency injection of fuel from you or whoever else might be to hand. As an empathic individual you are programmed to respond to this and you cannot resist the opportunity to exhibit your caring nature in order to help us out and nurse us. The attention you lavish on us provides us with fuel and we begin to feel more powerful again. The creature’s catcalls fade as he is subsumed within the prison of our constructed edifice once again and our supremacy returns. Our weakness lifts thanks to this provision of fuel from you and this has been instigated by us playing the sickness card. We will do this to garner sympathy from you, from family and friends and also from health professionals. Our favourite ailments of course are of the invisible variety. Depression, a stomach pain or a bad back. We are brilliant actors and ham up our suffering. The portrayal of our poor sick self would please Ferris Bueller. As with most things it is just another fabrication designed to manipulate you and provide us with fuel but you must never dare question us. We of course have researched the symptoms thoroughly and our Munchausen Syndrome is most prevalent. You are duty bound to help us rise from our sick bed or you are a bad person and we will cut you out of our will in the event that this terrible affliction sends us to the reaper. You will be sick to death of our illnesses and injuries but you will be duty bound to attend to them.


131 thoughts on “You Sicken Me

  1. MB says:

    HG, “None of you are painted black in this place, it doesn’t work like that.” Would you be so kind as to explain further?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There’s no need to, MB, just be content with that explanation.

      1. MB says:

        Thank you for your consideration, Sir. I don’t have it in me to be content. My curiosity is both a blessing and a curse.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are after all a truthseeker.

          1. MB says:

            Guilty as charged. I wouldn’t have it any other way!

      2. K says:

        HG cannot divorce himself from his narcissism, however, the 5 Rules prevent him from showing his true narcissistic colors. He has a high control threshold but, if a reader pissed him off, the possibility exists that he may instinctively paint him/her black but he would not devalue that individual.

        I have contempt but it is tempered by my empathy. Imagine if we had no empathy like HG; It would be a shit show.

        Ha ha ha…enjoy your contentment.

        1. MB says:

          K, I cannot even begin to imagine what my life would be without having empathy! I’d love to try it for a day or two though.

          1. windstorm says:

            Ah! But if you had two days with no empathy, when they ended would you then have to live with remorse for hurtful things you’d done those two days? And if having no empathy made life those two days much harder, then would you always feel more sorrow for people doomed to live without empathy? And if you wiped your memory to prevent these things, then you’d lose any helpful thing you’d learned about living without empathy.

            Just thinking…

          2. MB says:

            WS, I think to really do it right, I would have to also have the immunity of lack of guilt or remorse as it related to acts I’d undertaken during those two days. The things I would do would not be intentionally hurtful to other people. It would only give me the freedom to be selfish and entitled. Neither of which I feel worthy of in my current life.

          3. windstorm says:

            “Selfish and entitled”. I wonder how many people who know me think I’m that already! Ha, ha! Probably all of my family narcs for sure! I’m cracking up here trying to imagine the look my Pretzel would give me if I asked, “Do you think I’m selfish and entitled?”
            I’m imagining a double-take like, “Are you crazy!” Mixed with suspicion since it obviously is a trick question! 😝😝😝

            Girl! Selfish and entitled are relative. In my own home I am queen. I reign supreme and all are beneath me – now, granted everyone else is non-human – but I am still mistress of all I survey. My home, my cars, my money, my time.

            Everyone should have aspects of their lives that they can say that about – their own personal space that they control where they can be selfish and entitled and answerable to no one. I think that may be a fundamental human need. FREEEEDOOOOMMM!!!

          4. MB says:

            WS, I feel like every decision and action I take must be weighed against the needs of others. Almost 6 years ago now, I rented an apartment, packed up, and drove away without so much as a glance in the rear view mirror. I felt like a weight had lifted. The feeling of freedom was wonderful! It nearly killed my husband. He had no idea I was unhappy. I was away only 10-12 weeks with him badgering me relentlessly (calling and visiting, insisting on spending the night) the entire time to come back. Staying away wasn’t an option. The guilt of what I was doing to him was greater than the joy of my new found freedom and I returned. If I am present in the home, he is happy. He doesn’t require much more than that. I don’t express my needs so he assumes I’m content. Stuff it MB and everybody’s happy, right? The peace is kept.

          5. windstorm says:

            But you’re not happy. You don’t have to run off and start over. Think small. You know how men have “man caves?” Maybe you can create a unicorn cave. Is there an outbuilding or room you can make into a special MB place? Decorate and fix just for you? He has no say and stays out. Put a lock on the door and go in and just do whatever tickles your fancy.

            What makes it work is that you control it – it’s your area to rule. It doesn’t even have to be a room. Some people use a garden or a section of woods. I have a sister in law who uses their pool. Find a place to carve out as your realm.

            “I feel like every decision and action I take must be weighed against the needs of others.”

            That’s like your job. But no one works at their job 24/7. You go to work, then you get off and go home. Workers who never get breaks or time off are not only unhappy, they’re inefficient. You need to be able to take breaks so you can regenerate. You’ll be happier and more efficient and all those other needy people will benefit.

          6. MB says:

            WS, Elsa was popular around the time I left. Let It Go was my theme song. When I hear it, I still remember that joyous of freedom to be myself.

            “Don’t let them in, don’t let them see
            Be the good girl you always have to be
            Conceal, don’t feel, don’t let them know
            Well now they know”

            “It’s funny how some distance
            Makes everything seems small
            And the fears that once controlled me
            Can’t get to me at all

            Up here in the cold thin air I finally can breathe

            I know I’ve left a life behind but I’m too relieved to grieve!

            It’s time to see what I can do
            To test the limits and break through
            No right, no wrong, no rules for me,
            I’m free”

            I wish I could find that again without hurting anybody. I’m going to think about my unicorn cave!

            Thank you sweetness.

          7. windstorm says:

            You’re welcome. That’s my theme song too and “Frozen” is my favorite movie! I think if you embrace the feeling of empowerment in the song, you’ll find that any “hurt” others feel will be short-lived. The long-term result of an empowered MB will benefit all the people around you.

            “It’s time to see what I can do
            To test the limits and break through
            No right, no wrong, no rules for me
            I’m free…

            Let it go, let it go
            And I’ll rise like the break of dawn
            Let it go, let it go
            That perfect girl is gone
            Here I stand in the light of day
            Let the storm rage on
            The cold never bothered me, anyway.”

            Words to live by.

          8. MB says:

            Thank you Windstorm. You’re such a wise woman. I treasure my interactions with you. I’m glad you’re here.

          9. windstorm says:

            I treasure you, too, MB. I’m very glad you’re here, also. 😘

          10. Lou says:

            This is the second time I write this so apologies if the first one did make it through.
            MB, sorry to jump in your exchange with WS, but are you sure your husband is not a victim MR narcissist?
            When I read your comment I just saw a guy manipulating and controlling, not really caring for you and your happiness. The fact that you don’t express your feelings doesn’t mean he doesn’t see you are not happy but doesn’t care because he feeds from you.
            I hope my question doesn’t offend you and apologies if you have discussed this already in another thread.

          11. windstorm says:

            I didn’t say anything but it sure did sound like that to me, too, how he reacted when she left. I’ve never known many normal men to compare, though.

          12. MB says:

            WS and Lou, he cried almost constantly. (Something he had never done in front of me.) He couldn’t eat and dropped 30 lbs. (and he isn’t overweight). He went on medication for anxiety. He made comments that made me know he had considered suicide. I couldn’t have that on my head. I couldn’t handle the guilt. All I had to do was move back home and it would all stop. For about a month after I got home, he had to have a hand on me almost constantly. My leg, my shoulder. Rubbing his hand back and forth. I felt like a child’s teddy bear. Reassuring him that I was still there. I feel 100% responsible for his happiness. Mine is inconsequential. We don’t talk about anything real. Only work, the weather, small talk stuff. I could never tell him the truth. “He can’t handle the truth!” (And neither can I.)

          13. Lou says:

            MB, narc or no narc, that does not sound right to me.
            I think you may benefit from a consult with HG.

          14. MB says:

            Thank you Lou. I always benefit from consulting with HG. It’s one of my favorite things in life! I’ve had a Narc Detector consult for a different character. I’m going to go back and review the questionnaire in regard to my husband. I know he has way more narcissistic traits than I do. But I’m fairly certain he’s on the “normal” spectrum somewhere. It would be interesting to hear HGs analysis in somebody that’s NOT a narcissist though so I might still do it.

          15. NarcAngel says:

            Observation here. Aren’t the behaviors MB’s husband display(ed) same or similar to those of the readers and commenters here? Empaths here have discussed suicide over ending the relationship with their narcissist, and there is repeated attempts for contact through phone, text, watching them or driving past their house, stalking on facebook etc. Yet we dont say the empath is in fuel crises or think them a possible narcissist. I don’t think many people regardless their having a disorder or not walk away easily. Grief over an ended relationship can make you act vastly different as can being in love but we dont stay in that state. My ex-husband went through these same behaviours when I left but I do not think he was a narcissist as there was really nothing else to support that and his behaviour was temporary. He saw it as failure and he couldnt deal with it, but he got over it. I dont know wether MB’s husband is s narc and if she is interested to know she should consult HG. Possibly I should too. It just struck me that having those feelings and acting erratically temporarily when faced with ending a relationship would be normal. But what do I know about normal?

          16. windstorm says:

            You could be right about MBs husband. I’d have never considered that, but I wouldn’t recognize normal if it came up and hit me with a stick.

          17. Lou says:

            I agree NA. This is why I have tried to write in my comments, narc or no narc. To me MB’s husband behavior is at least co-dependent, which is not normal either. I do not think a normal guy would do those things. But I am not very acquainted with normal either.
            I know my original comment was pointing at NPD. I know it is not the only disorder possible, but I thought it would be good to bring it up, just in case.

          18. K says:

            Ha ha ha…we are exactly alike but completely different. This dynamic is so fucked up that it is almost unbelievable.

          19. MB says:

            NA, K, WS, WC, Lou, 2SF – I thank all you beautiful people for the input, support, and tough love. I would have to go back through the thread to see where I went off the rails! Anyway, there is so much in a 32 yr relationship that cannot be conveyed through this forum And y’all would be bored to tears reading anyway! All of you have given me much to think about and I just want to make the following points:

            He isn’t a narcissist. I know that’s the truth. He’s not an empath by a long shot and doesn’t understand me a lot of the time, but he does see my heart and my kindness and loves me even more because of it. We’ve been together since he was 16 and me 13. I am his world and when I left, he was devastated like any normal person would be. I’ve told him and written him letters since the beginning of our relationship and have kept them. It is truly haunting how far back my emptiness reared it’s head and is still not resolved. Although I expressed my discontent, he’s never known what to do about it. How could he? It’s my emptiness. It’s not his job to fill it. If I don’t know what is missing, how can I tell him? When I say that he didn’t know I was unhappy, I mean that he didn’t know that the day I left was any different than any other. The only thing I do know is that there is no intimacy, no depth to the relationship from my perspective and he is blissfully happy. I feel like I’m just existing and going through the motions day to day. (Not an uncommon relationship issue I’ve heard.) Maybe I expect too much or maybe this is what happy is supposed to look like. Either way the problem is obviously me.

            And 2SF, you are right to feel sorry for him. He deserves to have somebody better. I’ve told him he loves me more than I love him. His response is always, “you can’t measure love.” He will never set me free to find that person because he believes I am her. The truth is, I don’t deserve him. As I said, happiness is an inside job. My job. And I should be fired!

          20. 2SF says:

            MB, it’s not about ‘deserving’.
            I love your honesty on this blog. You are a good person MB and I totally get what you are saying and how you feel. I’d like to come back to this later. For now I want to wish you and everyone else here a wonderful New Years Eve and a very happy New Year in which we hopefully find (or keep) true happiness within ourselves. I love you MB and all you Tudorites and HG, sweetheart, I love you too.

          21. Lou says:

            Happy New Year to everyone in Narcsite and to our host, His Greatness Tudor. May 2019 be an excellent year for us all.

          22. NarcAngel says:

            Raising a vrtual glass to that Lou. Cheers!

          23. Lou says:

            Cheers NarcAngel. Al the best to you.

          24. WhoCares says:


            ” It is truly haunting how far back my emptiness reared it’s head and is still not resolved. Although I expressed my discontent, he’s never known what to do about it. How could he? It’s my emptiness. It’s not his job to fill it. If I don’t know what is missing, how can I tell him?”

            These are very wise words MB, but you need to apply them to him as well. Another person (narc or non-narc) cannot fill our emptiness.

            But you are also not here on earth only to fill *his* emptiness – or be his sole source of happiness. You deserve some of your own.

          25. MB says:

            And nunyabiz! Sorry, didn’t mean to leave you out.

          26. WhoCares says:


            I can only speak from my experience but both my narcs used emotional blackmail very effectively and both of them threatened suicide (to me and no one else). My mother did it in a very subtle way that suggested it without actually speaking the words. But what was plainly clear to me in both instances was that if they did follow through on it – I would be the one who was responsible for them doing that act. No empath makes a *specific* someone feel that way.

            I believe that when there is some ambiguity with regard to someone being a narc – it will become very clear if they’re experiencing a fuel shortage – as no matter what their facade requires of them – when they’re on ‘low’ they will extract negative fuel (as we have learned here; negative fuel is the most potent) and for the MR victim narcissist that will take the form of sympathy ploys, emotional blackmail – and significant guilt tripping.

            I came to this understanding very quickly when I had reached such a low point that I could barely meet my *own* needs – never mind the emotional needs of others, narc OR non-narc.

            I don’t think I could have seen my mother’s behaviour for what it was if it weren’t for having been in a situation where I’m staying with supportive people (and now I have a comparison) and for HG describing to me what (in my situation) what a ‘normal’ parental response would look like. After that, it really all clicked.

            They will do and say ANYTHING to not lose a primary source of fuel.

          27. NarcAngel says:

            I think I understand what you are saying (but perhaps not fully). I just didn’t see it as strictly manipulation in MB’s husband’s behaviour. I saw it as more of a grief response to the end of the relationship as opposed to a fuel crisis, but that is of course with limited information. I did understand the flags and concerns of others though, and recognized the comments were in support of MB. I do have a jumble of thoughts on long term relationships, expectation, and remaining individual, but they will likely not be well received and I don’t know if I’m up to gathering them today or if we should end of the year with debate lol.

            That aside – I saw the other day that Tim Hortons now has lentil soup, so now it’s official: Canadians are a lentil soup eating people. I hope you’re happy lol.

          28. MB says:

            NA, grief response is correct. He is a good man and he loves me. Someone once described him as “underwhelming” and that is an apt description. His idea of fun and mine are no where close to the same. There is no chemistry or passion. (And never was.) I go through phases where I want to run away and live a little. But more often, I am thankful for all of the things that I DONT have that I DONT want rather than the things I think I lack. Truth be told, I am living a life many dream of and I need to be reminded of that fact every now and then and be grateful for it.

          29. WhoCares says:


            I agree; there is not enough information (in this case) to tell between a grief response and a fuel crisis. But I also think this particular difficulty is why Mid-rangers succeed at hiding their narcississm. And I also held off on some of the things that I wanted to say since I questioned wanting to end the year on a debate!

            At least we can put the lentil soup issue to bed! Lol, I hadn’t noticed that at the local Timmy’s – thanks for bringing it to my attention 🙂

            Have a Happy New Year NA!

          30. Lou says:

            I think having a consultation with HG on your husband is a good idea MB. I totally agree with WS, he may not be a narc, but he certainly does not fit normal to me either. In my book, a normal guy does not threaten to commit suicide or do the things you wrote your husband did when you left. That may look like love to some but it is not; it is blackmailing (manipulation), and codependency.

          31. windstorm says:

            Well, like I’ve said before, I’ve never really known any “normal” men – but from your description, I really don’t think he fits “normal.” He may not be a narc, but there’s something rotten in Denmark.

            Threatening suicide and dumping all that angst and sorrow on you is very manipulative and IMO indicative that he’s thinking only of himself -not you at all. And any improvements he’s made in his behavior were very likely made only in his own self-interest. The relationship you describe sounds very loveless.

            I understand that you want to maintain the relationship, but you need outlets for your love and to meet your needs. ❤️

          32. K says:

            He reminds me of a mid-ranger that I know. I have some narcissists that almost don’t seem like they are because their narcissism is so subtle.

          33. K says:

            You shouldn’t have to sacrifice your happiness like that and I think you should get on the horn (phone) with HG so you can sort things out.

            Sometimes I feel like a lonesome loser but, after reading your comment, I am so happy that I am single. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for someone else’s happiness.

          34. Windstorm says:

            Lonesome Loser is a great song.
            Goodness knows I have no real understanding of a happy marriage. The only one I’ve ever studied is my daughter’s. But that doesn’t keep me from having an opinion. Ha, ha!

            I think it’s a fallacy to ever think you are responsible for anyone else’s happiness. Ultimately we each are responsible for our own happiness and THAT’S ALL. You’re setting yourself up for heartache if you expect someone else to make you happy or if you think that you can make them happy.

            I see that in my daughter and SILs marriage. What they do is each take charge of their own happiness. Now, granted they don’t deliberately do things that the other would find hurtful, but they also are not hurt when their partner does something for themselves. Since their happiness is in their own hands, there’s no anxiety or worry about will he/won’t he, because what their partner is doing isn’t about them. It’s about their partner.

            Then when they are together, they are both already happy and self-sufficient and they can just enjoy each other’s company (which they do, sometimes sickeningly so – like Mickey and Minnie Mouse!).

            It’s sort of like the happiness in their relationship is in three parts – hers, his and the family’s. She takes care of hers, he takes care of his and they both work together for the family’s.

          35. K says:

            “He’s a loser but he keeps on trying”, it is a great song. I agree; we are responsible for our own happiness and not others. I think healthy relationships are a combination of independence, interdependence and dependence. It sounds like your daughter and SIL have those qualities in their marriage and they are very fortunate.

            Needy people are not my cup of tea and I just don’t have the energy for them anymore.

          36. MB says:

            Lou, I am absolutely not offended. Thank you for jumping in. Interesting observation you make regarding my husband and from this post, I can see how you would make it. (Maybe I’ll have HG do a Narc Detector on him – never occurred to me!) I’m 99% sure he’s a normal. He is a good man. Just very simple. He works, he comes home, he helps with housework, plays video games, watches tv, then do it all over again the next day. Like a machine. Beige, everyday, then you die and that’s it. Routine is his thing. Anything out of the ordinary and it throws him off. I left before because he was always grouchy, fussing at the children over petty things. We were all on eggshells worried we’d set him off. When I would try to tell him not to sweat the small stuff, he would dig his heels in even more. He was willing to die on the hill of socks on the floor. He saw when I left and he changed and has stayed that way. He realized what the big things are. What matters and what doesn’t. What he can’t change is that he is not stimulating to me in any way. In my reading, I found our relationship in black and white. It’s pseudo-intimacy, called confluence. I am a people pleaser. I don’t cause waves. I know his buttons and I don’t push them. It looks like we are as happy as can be. Look how well they get along. They never argue. Meanwhile, I feel like a racehorse made to stay in the stable. I want to run like somebody left the gate open.

            I know that happiness is an inside job. Nobody can make you happy or unhappy. I have “issues” that I don’t deal with. It will cause too many waves and too much pain.

          37. Lou says:

            Thanks for your reply MB. The whole family walking on eggshells trying to avoid to set him off is another red flag to me MB. He living like a machine may be another red flag. I know MR can make changes if that is what will stop their IPPS to leave, especially because they don’t know what they are and are convinced they are good people.
            Obviously I don’t know your husband, but sometimes, when one is too close to them and, as a good empath, very aware of one’s own issues and ready to take the guilt and the responsibility, it is difficult to see clearly, to see their part for what it is. That is why I asked you the question.
            From my perspective, you feeling like a racehorse doomed to stay in a stable may be part of your own issues, but not 100%.

          38. Lou says:

            MB, I hope my previous comment doesn’t come across as “pushy” or insisting too much on your husband being a narc. I know you know way better than me about your relationship and your situation. I do not read all comments but, from what I have read about you, you are a witty and intelligent woman, full of humor, who seems to feel “chained” to her “beige” husband. I find that a pity, and a red flag too. I am of the opinion no one should live feeling chained to anybody or trapped in a relationship that does not fulfill them. But I know guilt is a big issue, and it is much easier to recognize it than to get rid of it.

          39. K says:

            I was thinking the same thing Lou.

          40. WhoCares says:


            I’m not going to attempt to draw any conclusions about your husband’s behaviour (because of lack of examples) but I do see the same red flags as others here have noted. And the only thing that I’ll add is that when I read your words here:

            “I was away only 10-12 weeks with him badgering me relentlessly (calling and visiting, insisting on spending the night) the entire time to come back.”

            I couldn’t help noticing (I’ve escaped from two victim narcissists) how similar that reads as “fuel crisis.”

            Also, I can’t tell you how many times your words (about how you perceive yourself) ring true for me. Your words to WS:

            “I feel like every decision and action I take must be weighed against the needs of others.”

            I have said those exact words to my counselor and fight with those feelings every day.

            But the rest of my post is about you, MB. From what you share of yourself here, you are a beautiful, endearing, intelligent, thoughful, funny woman – one who is sassy, yet classy.

            And please don’t take offense when I say this but you also come across as a creative individual who is a little bit afraid to own her own potential (in *some* ways, mind you…I don’t know much about your professional life so that may be an assumption on my part).

            I think you’ve learned to keep the peace – because you hate conflict – and always consider others in your choices and decisions. And that, somehow, when you do something purely for yourself, you end up “hurting” others…then you feel like the selfish one for ever even considering it.

            I had a lot more to write but feel like the message would have been lost in too lengthy a post…just a few observations MB.

          41. K says:

            Not if you compartmentalize it. Having no empathy is easier than having it. You function better and you can’t feel sadness so you aren’t stuck in Molasses Swamp (Candy Land) paralyzed in a morass of emotion. It is very efficient. I don’t feel bad for people without empathy, that is their world and they are used to it, however, I wouldn’t want to have to need fuel. My narcissists are not very good at maintaining their fuel matrices and it is evident by their addictive behaviours.

          42. windstorm says:

            You can’t know for sure if not having empathy is better. Maybe it is easier, but I believe if we suddenly had no empathy, we would lose much. So much of our happiness, joy, tenderness and love – they make our lives so much richer. I think losing our empathy would drain much of the color from our lives. Easy is boring. I want color, joy and complexity. And I love being self-sustaining. I’m too lazy to be always chasing after fuel. lol!

          43. K says:

            It depends on whose POV you are looking at it from. You cannot miss what you do not know or feel and, although you may lose some things you would gain other things like freedom from guilt, remorse, regret and sadness. No way would I want to hunt for fuel either!

      3. nunya biz says:

        MB, my husband has some differences from yours but I see some commonalities as well.

      4. kel says:

        MB, Couples sex therapy & a bottle of Creed?

        1. MB says:

          Ha ha Kel! I didn’t get my HG doll in my stocking either if anybody was wondering. I guess I hadn’t been good enough. Or maybe all the disreputable toy stores were sold out. Maybe next year 😞

      5. nunya biz says:

        K, I agree with what you say about the painting black, I feel cautious about it. I reiterate that my opinions are pretty much always balanced by some version of the opposing opinion (unfortunately, a hindrance), but I think honest discussion is so valuable, I don’t see similar anywhere else, this blog is unique. I also like the set up and the moderation style, it compliments the communication imo.

        MB, as far as your needs coming second, it is so frustrating. N’s cannot see people, I feel as though they are 50% blind and stupid. I have felt in my house for the majority of my 18 year commitment that I have been invisible and have also been fraught with guilt for the majority of it. It is one of the reasons I get frustrated about dirty empath disagreements, though I understand and it’s no criticism, but the way that traps work can slowly kill a person. There was a conversation recently about there being more than one way to kill a person and I couldn’t agree more. Information becomes uni-directional, it’s impossible to communicate effectively

        Some of that pain has come out in anger and other odd ways for me. I have resentment over the entire thing but consistently come back around to the conclusion that the entire thing is my fault while he lives mostly guilt free and unencumbered by the idea that I have several unmet needs that torture me. I haven’t seriously entertained the idea of doing a consult with HG because I frankly don’t see the point. I’ve already made all of the sacrifices of self and worth that one could make (not well, mind you, my tools haven’t always been sharp) and my only options after doing ALL of the work to make the situation as functional as I can and taking all the hits myself are to stay or to go. I’ve got him as neutralized as I possibly can, and he has some qualities that are comfortable and inoffensive. He is stable and consistent. I have my own flaws.
        Both options are difficult to face. I’m not the first person to be in this position and I’m not the last. Narcissists can make you face the reality of your insignificance in the most painful ways.

        I hope everyone grasps that who comes across this. I ended up with my husband specifically because he was such a contrast to the previous narc who was an extremely abusive lesser. My husband would never lock me in the house and take away the phone. He also wouldn’t remember my birthday or be able to fully connect intimately. I cannot have sex with him, it’s been probably nearly a year. He’d be content for me to stay forever anyway I think.

        Just venting, but I relate to some points and wanted to share. How blatant facts of people one is supposed to care for are somehow unseen invisible untruths is beyond me. Oh, and then have a conversation with a narc about what to do regarding your narc. Fucking brilliant. I swear if it is possible to narc-block myself into a psycho hole I will find a way.

        1. K says:

          nunya biz
          When I sent my first e-mail I was afraid I might irritate HG (I have a tendency to irritate my IRL narcs) so I chose my words wisely.

          Narcsite is definitely unique and, thankfully, most of the readers here recognize that constructive dialogue is paramount to healing and moving forward. HG cannot remove his narcissism when he is on the blog, however, he has demonstrated a remarkably high control threshold since its inception.

          Nothing is your fault nunya biz and you have no reason to feel guilty. Narcissists are incapable of Whole Object* relations and you have been invalidated and left voiceless. I think you should consider a consult with HG. It will help you move forward.

          *Whole Object: Another person who is recognized as having rights, feelings, needs, hopes, strengths, weaknesses, and insecurities just like one’s own.

      6. nunya biz says:

        NA, it’s a good point and one of the reasons I bring up the dirty empath stuff. Empath’s can act like N’s in my opinion, I certainly have. I have had the inability to let go to extreme (it’s been discussed as some CoD type stuff). But I think the difference boils down to tendency to see the other person as a human individual (empathy). I know that my pain in N relationships has come down to feeling like the other person cannot see and empathize and desires to control, literally turn off and on at whim, sometimes on the off setting for months on end.
        Unhealthy behavior isn’t exclusive to narcs, of course. I think I am an expert on that : P (jk).

      7. nunya biz says:

        K, I am considering your suggestion and will commit it to thought.
        To say I appreciate your concern and consideration is an understatement, honestly I don’t get that much. Which is ok, I just seem to have a personality that defies or denies that sort of thing (and like I think WS, I have been called selfish). So thank you.
        And another good terminology for me to look up (I truly love those, words are my favorite), you really are invaluable!

        Yes, a consistently high threshold, and I aim for being consistent myself, a life challenge.

        1. K says:

          Thank you for your kind words nunya biz; I really appreciate them. Neither you nor WS are selfish and it is ok to take care of yourself and that means putting yourself first and, if people don’t like it, then that’s their problem, not yours.

          Work on what you want and make it happen, to hell with the narcs and everyone else.

      8. 2SF says:

        MB, reading through this thread, this is what comes to my mind…
        Mind you, I’m going to be harsh.

        Don’t you think it is about time you start being honest? To your husband and to yourself?

        “The feeling of freedom was wonderful! It nearly killed my husband. He had no idea I was unhappy.”

        That is awful, leaving a person wondering what the hell is going on and why you left. Here you are at fault. You should have told him.
        No wonder the man was totally upset.

        “I don’t express my needs so he assumes I’m content.”

        There again. How is your husband supposed to know what you want and what your needs are? By guessing, assuming? That is so dishonest.

        “Stuff it MB and everybody’s happy, right? The peace is kept.”

        The lie is kept also.

        “I feel like a racehorse made to stay in the stable. I want to run like somebody left the gate open.”

        I totally understand that MB. And therefor you need to start being honest, only then things can change for the better.

        To me it seems your husband really loves you:

        “He made comments that made me know he had considered suicide. I couldn’t have that on my head. I couldn’t handle the guilt. All I had to do was move back home and it would all stop. For about a month after I got home, he had to have a hand on me almost constantly. My leg, my shoulder. Rubbing his hand back and forth. I felt like a child’s teddy bear. Reassuring him that I was still there. I feel 100% responsible for his happiness. Mine is inconsequential. We don’t talk about anything real”

        You are the one assuming he wanted to commit suicide, he didn’t say so, it was not manipulative. After you came back he showed he loved you, he must have thought that he had not given you enough love, that’s why the touching etc.. And there are people who sincerely cry when they are sad and their world falls apart.

        You say you are a truthseeker. I’d suggest you start bringing the truth to other people first. I feel for your man. He deserves an honest wife. If you don’t love him, talk to him. No man has a happy life when the woman he lives with doesn’t love him and is miserable.
        Start talking about something real MB.

      9. nunya biz says:

        But generally speaking, begging, pleading, expressing distress will sway an (unaware and not yet fed up) empath. Not a narc. Huge key difference.

      10. nunya biz says:

        “No man has a happy life when the woman he lives with doesn’t love him and is miserable.”

        A dissenting opinion is to be expected, but seriously are we even reading the same website?

        Narcissists live for these platitudes, I refuse to feed that monster.

        1. 2SF says:

          We’re not talking a narcissist here.

      11. nunya biz says:

        Highly debatable and a deflection.

      12. nunya biz says:

        NA, I would love to hear your thoughts. I understand your reluctance and I’m not sure I’d jump into that fire so no pressure, but it is an area of confusion for me, relationships and expectations, and I guess I think that’s a good thing. Mostly because I’m not really a fan of walking around feeling like I have complicated matters all sorted out (it makes me feel like I’ve given up). So I will be very interested if you do talk about it and I wouldn’t be surprised if we have at least some opinions in common.

        Speaking of which… can someone tell me how to follow all new comments that are made on the blog? I only am able to follow what I comment on and I am worried I miss people talking to me as well. I have found a couple of comments from the past that I missed and I don’t see anything at all on an article I’m not following.

        1. MB says:

          I would welcome NAs thoughts as well Nunya. She has shared that she has an unconventional marriage that works for both her and her husband. As far as subscribing to all the comments, be careful what you wish for! Ha ha

          1. windstorm says:

            “Be careful what you wish for” is right. My phone tells me each week my daily average number of hours on-line. Mine runs about 8 hours a day. That’s like a full-time job. And other than the occasional google, this blog is all I do on-line.

          2. MB says:

            Windstorm, I don’t even look at my usage! I’ve just replaced one narc addiction for another! Bless you for being here lady.

        2. windstorm says:

          Nunya biz
          First you have to have a WordPress account and be following Knowing the Narcissist, then
          1. You go into your wordpress account.
          2. Click on your profile,
          3. then notifications
          4. Then click on Knowing theNarcissist,
          5. then turn on all the notification boxes.

      13. nunya biz says:

        Ha, MB, sometimes I do think “eh, I don’t need/want to know.”

      14. nunya biz says:

        Yikes, WS, trying to figure it. Somehow this website doesn’t come up as an option even though I thought I added it and can’t figure out where the glitch is. I’ll work on it a little later, I see what you are saying, hopefully I will figure it out.

      15. 2SF says:


        Couldn’t find another reply button but this one, so I hope you’ll gonna find my comment somewhere.

        Thinking about your situation I was wondering why you got married. You said you’ve been together almost all of your life, your husband was most likely your first boyfriend. There is no intimacy, no depth, he is beige. It sounds like you were friends but not lovers in a romantic way.
        From what I’ve read here it sounds like your marriage was a ‘mistake’, you didn’t love him enough to make that commitment. You were probably too young and naive.
        I wonder if you could divorce your husband and just be friends, because to me it looks like that is what it is, you’re just friends who live together.
        Divorce would give you back your ‘freedom’ and your husband would still have you as a friend.
        MB I feel for you, you are not happy in this situation. You probably know I divorced my (N-)husband. We still live next to each other and actually not much changed since years ago, but the feeling of ‘freedom’ is huge. I don’t have to be around him every day. And even though I do not date at all, I could. Even though I don’t travel, I could go anywhere and any time (if I had the money)..
        Why don’t you chose your own happiness? Life is too short MB.
        Don’t care what other people think, you do not harm anyone with that decision. Your husband will eventually see that you don’t have to be married to be good friends, like you always were.

        I think NA is holding back a bit because there are people who’d disagree with her ideas about marriage and longterm relationships, so I’ll start saying what I think.
        Marriage is a backward constitution, 1 in 2 ends in divorce. People should not be together because of a piece of paper that tells them they should stick together. People should be together because they love each other, or they have children they want to raise together, or they just want to be together for whatever reason. There is no need whatsoever to have a relationship confirmed by some creep in a church or a person in your local city hall.

        And MB, don’t be a people pleaser. Be kind, be friendly, be sassy, be anything you want but express your ideas and your emotions. You say your husband is beige, I say people pleasers are beige. My youngest sister and her husband are like that. In the beginning, when my BIL came in our family I thought it was refreshing such a kind and gentle person (the same as my husband would appear). Later I found out it is highly boring, he (BIL) has no opinion (of course he has, but he doesn’t mention his), avoids discussions, is always only friendly. People pleasers cause other people to be beige as well, because they avoid anything, any topic that really matters.
        MB, life is short, make sure you live it (saying this to myself as well)
        Happy New Year xx

      16. nunya biz says:

        2SF, I agree with all you said. It is very thoughtful and I feel the same about MB, but also about myself and it is a challenge for me to step into that place after so long. My reason for being here has been the kids, but that will no longer be necessary, so I will nothing to distract me from looking at the truth. Becoming a whole person living in my truth is one of my goals, but I’m not sure what that looks like. But I tend to feel in the end like that is what a person should do in order to attract more fulfilling things into their life- like another person, a romantic partner, who has come into the same type of growth and perspective. You can’t do that if you are hiding and that is manifested also in MB’s relationship with her narc. It is also part of how I attract narcs. Everything fits together. And it’s not good enough for her. I think this is another way we can look at our own role in attracting narcs into our life….by not taking responsibility for ourselves and as you say, “people pleasing”.

        But I would point out about your brother in law…
        the same thing could be said of my husband. People like him because of how he comes across. But then you find out he doesn’t speak his mind. Because of what I’ve seen and experienced that just REEKS to me of passive aggressive control. Superiority even. And reiterating what MB said in the beginning, if she doesn’t express her needs he assumes she is happy. That is exactly what my husband wants from me, I’ve pointed out to him many times. It is objectifying at it’s most simple, imo. I’ve seen in my husband the passive aggressive anger that can come out, but it is so fuckin wily it’s hard to identify. Essentially I have gone though a long, painful process of teaching my husband cognitive empathy.

        I thought WhoCare’s thougths very insightful.

        But I don’t know about MB’s husband as far as if he is a narc, I can only say I am highly suspicious. I wanted to say all this because I think it’s important to recognize these kinds of subtleties.

        1. 2SF says:

          Nunya Biz, thanks for your comment.
          I agree we need to take responsibility for ourselves. There are always many options you need to consider. What is good for the children, what is good for myself? How can we continue without a lot of damage? Weighing all options all of the time, that is hard and a lot of stress. Looking back I still am not sure if I have made the right decisions. Perhaps it would have been better if I had divorced N-ex 10-15 years ago, would I have been a happier mother? Our boys, when they were smaller wanted us to stay together. Last year they were fine with the divorce. They are happy now and doing fine, that is what matters to me. I can not change the past, if I could I wouldn’t have married N-ex in the first place.

          I’m sorry you have to deal with your husbands behaviour and passive aggressiveness and I understand your long and painfull process.
          My BIL is not passive aggressive, he is just friendly and a people pleaser. I’m sure once they get home my sister and he will discuss everything and everyone, he’s not a narc. He’s a good man, I just prefer people to be real and express their opinions and feelings.

          MB’s husband is not a narc so she says. She has been on this blog a long time and I guess she would know by now if he was a narc. Normals have narcissistic traits too and that makes it all the more confusing. I see narcissism in everyone these days. It’s hard to tell who is the real narc behind closed doors.
          Take care Nunya, You deserve to be happy as much as your children or your husband. I hope you can be at peace with whatever decision you make.xx

      17. nunya biz says:

        Btw, 2SF, I have considered the “living next to each other” option, so I am very interested that it works for you. I have brought it up to him.

        1. 2SF says:

          Nunya Biz, it’s not an ideal situation, but it’s the best of the worst so to speak. Especially when you have kids and a N-ex husband who gets drunk every single night. I didn’t want them to have to travel and stay with him for a longer time. Now they just go over to his part of the house twice a week, eat dinner, talk for a while and come back. It works for everyone. We all like living here, because it’s a nice house, lots of space, garden animals, a nice area etc.. I would like to live here untill our sons have left the house and N-ex will retire (within 4-5 years).

      18. nunya biz says:

        Eh, as I’ve said before, the diagnostics are not necessarily of prime importance to me. It is more about the complexities, subtleties, shades and differences and not falling for manipulations so as to damage ones-self. I’ve not interest in diagnosing your brother in law, I’ve interest in discussing red flags and not perpetuating complacency when I see it (without judgement). Thought-terminating conversations bother me. I have left my opinions open to interpretation and discussion. My opinions differ from yours.

        As far as making the right choices I feel pretty certain I didn’t have any as it was having no family, which he is aware of. He used to corner me with it as though it was my fault I didn’t have support, which is certainly a narc-y thing to do. I’ve come round to expressing that at this point he indeed has a moral and ethical obligation to do differently and that is where we are at.

        We can’t go back in time, it sounds like you did your best.

        1. 2SF says:

          Nunya biz,

          I looked up your name, wondering what it meant (I’m not English), so it means “None of your business” is that right?
          That doesn’t make me feel very comfortable talking to you. I’ll continue anyway.. 🙂

          “It is more about the complexities, subtleties, shades and differences and not falling for manipulations so as to damage ones-self.”

          If you have to wonder about all this, all of the time, you are definitely with a narc. When I’m with my friends I never wonder about complexities, subtleties etc.. we have honest conversations. Of course I notice their faces and see the subtleties, like sadness of even ‘white lies’.

          Only a narc makes your mind go crazy like that and only ‘No Contact’ will put an end to it. Not saying that is what I do. My mother still knows how to keep my mind busy for 3 days, every time I’ve visited her.

          Don’t allow yourself to become paranoid. Expressing ones feelings or thoughts is expressing ones feelings and thoughts. Most of the time not meant to manipulate the other. Unless you are with a narc. And even then they are sincere once in a while. Hard to tell. All you can do is not allow yourself to be abused. If you have questions with a person, like always, then get rid of this person, or ignore, or whatever works for you and your mind will be at peace. That’s my opinion.

      19. nunya biz says:

        There is indeed a boundary indicated by my name. I have personal reasons for doing so when I began.

        Thank you for your thoughts.

    2. K says:

      I like to think that narcsite is neutral like Switzerland; a place where the dynamic is “suspended” for learning purposes. Plus, we are remote tertiary sources, the bottom of HG’s fuel matrix and our comments are in writing (5th sphere of influence).

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Correct parts.

      2. K says:


      3. MB says:

        Thank you K, I understand all of what you say. However, there have been some on the blog over time that I have a hard time believing would not be labeled as trouble makers (painted black). Of course he would not say as he is polite and professional. I’ve read that in his world, EVERYBODY is GOOD or BAD. I am feigning contentment and leaving it at that.

    3. windstorm says:

      We’re not worth the black paint or the effort. Lol! We’re just lowly tertiary sources.

      1. kel says:

        WS, that makes me feel better, lol

      2. K says:

        Ha ha ha…yeah, we don’t matter. We are just low-level appliances.

  2. Lou says:

    I am so sick right now, I feel like an empathic biological weapon of mass destruction.
    Cough, cough.

    1. MB says:

      Lou, I am sorry you are ill. I’m sending you some virtual chicken soup and some advice my favorite doctor gave to me many years ago that I always remember when I am unwell. “The more you drink, the more you pee. The more you pee, the better you’ll be.” Take care of you.

    2. windstorm says:

      I Hope you feel better really soon! Maybe by the time you read this. 🌺

    3. K says:

      I hope you feel better soon.

      1. SuperXena says:

        I could not reply directly to your comment :”Having no empathy is easier than having it. You function better and you can’t feel sadness so you aren’t ….”

        I believe that those with no empathy are limited to a merely“survival” mode and have a much more limited potentiality than what the simple eye can see. The positive feelings related to empathy( joy,happiness) give you the ability of going beyond that survival mode . There is something else beyond that mode far more powerful.

        Of course people with no empathy would say they do not need these positive feelings because they have not experienced the thriving empowerment those feelings bring with them.

        FEELING powerful is not the same as BEING powerful.

        They feel empowered momentarily when they acquire fuel . Being this same ephemeral feeling the reason of their eternal quest for fuel.
        This is not the same as BEING powerful( as a permanent condition) as empaths are because:
        – Empathy provides us with the possibility of going one step further than the sole survival mode increasing your potentiality by giving you access to two “worlds”.

        -Empathy gives us the ability of connection,bonding. People without empathy are always disconnected . Can you imagine how frustrating would it be to have the cognitive ability of knowing that they are physically present but at the same time not being there? They are just spectators of a life they really cannot participate in or take part in, not belonging . It is like “being “ without being. People with empathy “are” by “being”.

        The “negative” feelings that are related to empathy (sadness, pain) can be controlled not necessarily being paralysing or a hindrance. When those feelings are legitimate, proportionate and non-neurotic responses to the
        external reality (and not triggered by underlying deep-rooted patterns that make them unproportional) , they can even function as propelling motor to move one step further in your personal development.

        Wishing you that the beginning of 2019 finds you full of energy, JOY and positiveness.

        1. K says:

          When you don’t have empathy you can function very efficiently and your potential is quite limitless because you are not bound by remorse, guilt, conscience or social moralizing. You are not hamstrung by rules because they don’t apply to you; you are above them.

          Although individuals without empathy may not experience positive emotions, they experience power, which is akin to joy and that works for them. And, in their world they perceive themselves as powerful, therefore, they are powerful. It is innate and enduring and that is very effective for them.

          The narcissist’s fuel and the empath’s joy/happiness are ephemeral and we, both the narcissist and the empath, are always chasing the dragon that is happiness or fuel.

          I don’t perceive them as being frustrated by their inability to connect; that doesn’t bother them in the least, however, they experience frustration when they don’t get what they want/thwarted or disappointed. Possibly rage if they have a low control threshold.

          Spectators is accurate. They cannot participate with the full emotional spectrum that is available to the empath and, to some degree, the normal. And that is why the narcissist depends on the empath for fuel and this article exemplifies that:

          Arguably one can say that the empath’s emotions hamper her/his ability to function to the point of folly or disability, however, I don’t have a problem with the negative emotions (I enjoy my hatred and rage and do not consider those problematic; they are an asset) but I sense that some empaths are riddled with guilt, shame, anxiety or insecurity/low self-esteem to their detriment.

          Happy New Year! Bring on the positivity and the good mojo!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Well studied and well put.

          2. K says:

            Thank you HG. It is a work in progress.

          3. SuperXena says:

            Thank you K for your kind wishes.
            Thank you for your response. Again, a matter of perspectives.
            I had stated before (and I believe you stated this as well) : one cannot miss or appreciate something one has never had. And it works both ways.

            Best wishes for 2019!

          4. K says:

            My pleasure SX
            It really is a matter of perspective and functionality. I am working on perspective engagement and I am trying to figure out who has the better deal.

            Cheers to good health, happiness and prosperity for 2019!

          5. SuperXena says:

            Very interesting. Perspective engagement is that that makes a person more pro social. Understanding others perspectives is crucial and does not necessarily mean adopting entirely other’s perspectives.
            I see a little trap there though:
            – Define “better” . Better deal for whom? For you?
            – Define “more “effective.
            I am afraid that “better “ and more effective is entirely subjective of who is looking at it. An empathic person will always have the empathic traits. You cannot get rid of them…
            Best wishes

          6. K says:

            Ha ha ha…you crack me up. I wouldn’t get rid of my empathy if you paid me and it is hardwired into me anyway. I love my empathy, love, compassion, kindness, all my emotions: the good, the bad and the ugly.

            Yes, perspective engagement helps people with their understanding and a by-product of that is prosocial behaviour/less conflict. Ha ha ha…I cannot adopt narcissism and I don’t want to, however, by looking at the world through HG’s lens I can improve my world exponentially.

            I am less angry and more happy and that is progress.

            Warmest regards.

          7. SuperXena says:

            Ha,ha K. You scared me there for a while . I had been getting the vibes that my friend “empathy” was getting bad reputation around here lately.

          8. K says:

            Ha ha ha…don’t worry, I won’t be going to the dark side.

            I am using both logic and empathy to understand the narcissistic perspective so I will be demonstrating that in some of my comments but I will always be on Team Empath.

          9. SuperXena says:

            Good to know you are with team empath!
            One does not have to be devoid of empathy to be logical. That is why at the stage I find myself now this site is very valuable . Still learning.
            Empathy with skilled logical thinking and controlled emotions is good.. Fierceful adversaries..

          10. SuperXena says:

            Sending you lots of mojos for 2019 as well!

          11. SuperXena says:

            K, just to clarify. I am not stating that one perspective is better than the other. There is no place for better or worse here. I am stating that having empathy gives you more potential by giving you access to many different worlds.

          12. K says:

            I agree with you, neither is wrong or better, just different and we can use our empathy to access the narcissist’s world so we can get an idea of what it is like for them.

          13. NarcAngel says:

            Excellent analysis. You’re such a browner (sticking my tongue out at you).

            Note: In my day that meant you were smart in school and got good grades. Not a suck -up.

          14. K says:

            Thank you NarcAngel!
            Ha ha ha….brown-nosers were akin to teachers pets when I was in school. I was smart but I was too busy being rebellious and getting into trouble and that is something I regret. Damn, if I could turn the clock back, I would be a better student.

          15. MB says:

            K. You’re more than making up for it now!

          16. K says:

            Ha ha ha…thank you! I do regret not being a good student, on the flip side, I thoroughly enjoyed my delinquency.

      2. nunya biz says:

        Amazing thoughts, K, thank you. Helps me.

        1. K says:

          My pleasure nunya biz!

    4. kel says:

      Lou, my narc brother taught me this- take vitamins A, C, and E, works like a charm. Or just take a multivitamin, and someone else told me once, put Vic sav on your face & then lean over a facial steam. Speedy recovery!

    5. Lou says:

      MB, Windstorm, K and Kel, thank you very much for your good wishes, virtual soup and advice.
      I am drinking lots of tea and soup, and some red wine now and then. I was taking some anti cough syrup but stopped taking it when realized I should not mix medicine and alcohol. .
      Your comments made me feel better right away. Thank you!

      1. K says:

        My pleasure Lou!

      2. nunya biz says:

        Take care, Lou. I like oregano oil for all things.

        1. Lou says:

          Thanks Nunya Biz. That is very kind of you.
          I was still breathing like Darth Vader yesterday but am feeling much better today. Seems I will be able to celebrate the new year!

  3. kel says:

    HG, I’m sorry, I don’t mean to pester, but what happened with that wonderful person you were hanging out with last week that was making you fun and sassy? I liked that side of you a lot.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There was a ‘problem’ with the timer on the deep freeze.

      1. kel says:

        Ah I see, and gone sour. Too bad

      2. foolme1time says:

        Oh HG!

  4. SG says:

    In the first paragraph, HG writes about how strong, powerful and impervious to illness and injury that the narcissist feels he or she is.
    When I pointed out to my greater that several moles on his neck and back looked like the pictures in magazines showing skin cancer, he gave me an extremely condescending sneer. He then dismissed me and walked off with a superior attitude and swagger. Several months later I asked him if he had had the moles checked at his annual work physical exam that he had that day. He mumbled something about yeah,yeah they’re fine. I felt relieved that he had the moles checked and that all was good and put the matter down.(However, I was conflicted by my gut feeling that those moles just didn’t seem normal.)
    I should have recognized that the way he presented his answer was the tone he used when he lied.
    He was diagnosed with stage three skin cancer about six years later. We were divorced by then. He then apparently had two and a half very painful years of the cancer slowly and viciously eating away at his body and he had some serious surgeries on major organs to hack away at the spreading cancer.
    As an empath, I would have never wanted any of that kind of suffering for him, the father of my children, my high-school sweetheart, and my partner of many years. However, recalling his superior, belittling sneer when I tried to help, my heart hardens just a little. So I guess you can say that in some form his narcissism led to a very sad ending of his own doing. So the question is, was he in control or wasn’t he?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      From his perspective, which is all that matters to him, yes.

      1. Grace says:

        Oh, I worded the question as a rhetorical one. I was delighted to get an answer from you, H. G. Besides that, your concise answer spoke volumes in giving me insight. I think we all appreciate your generosity and kindness during this holiday season and thank you for it. Bravo!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

    2. Grace says:


  5. Jules says:

    I do have the outfit. 💋✨

  6. kel says:

    HG, a few last questions tonight, s’il vous plait:

    Did you come down with a cold, per chance?

    How was your Christmas visit with your MatriNarc?

    Have you painted me black?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. No.
      2. Effective.
      3. No.

      1. mommypino says:

        HG, have you painted me black?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          None of you are painted black in this place, it doesn’t work like that.

      2. Lou says:

        HG, what do you mean when you say your Christmas visit with Matrinarc was effective? Did you eat the hard cheese and drink the vinegar wine without giving her fuel?
        Seriously, was there drama or no drama at all from her side?
        I visited my Darth Mother some weeks ago and I think it was effective too. She was quite polite with me and I could stand her for the few days I was there. She did try to extract negative fuel on two occasions but did not get any. She is giving me kind of a golden period now.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It means I achieved what I required. Yes, there was some drama generation on her part, it got no response from me but of course others, as usual, pandered to it.

          Well done on resisting Darth Mother’s manipulations.

          1. Lou says:

            Thank you HG.

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