A Very POTUS Narcissist – The Threat of Impeachment

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Donald Trump is the subject of an impeachment inquiry over allegations that he improperly sought help from Ukraine to boost his chances of re-election. This article examines POTUS´response in the context of activity surrounding the impeachment inquiry for the purposes of highlighting the behaviour of a narcissist. For the hard of understanding, this is not an article espousing the merits of President Trump or otherwise, this is a blog about narcissism and POTUS provides a prime example of one in action, a very powerful one. It is therefore for the purposes of wider understanding and education that this recent episode is used for the purpose of explaining what is actually at work. 

The reportage is taken from BBC News. The highlighted comments are mine only.

What is the issue that is the focus of the impeachment inquiry?

Mr Trump is accused of breaking the law by pressuring Ukraine’s leader to dig up damaging information on a political rival.

In July, he urged his Ukrainian counterpart to investigate one of the frontrunners to take him on in next year’s presidential election. This matters because it is illegal to ask foreign entities for help in winning a US election.

An impeachment inquiry that could see the president eventually removed from office is under way.

But there is a fierce debate about whether Mr Trump broke the law or committed an impeachable offence – he himself says he has done nothing wrong.

It was supposed to be the kind of call a president makes multiple times a year.

Mr Trump says he called his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky on 25 July to congratulate him on his recent election victory. Mr Zelensky, a former TV star with no political experience, was elected president in a landslide win in April.

But an anonymous whistleblower, reported to be a CIA official, felt there was something more serious in their exchange. They filed a formal complaint on 12 August explaining why they were so concerned.

In their letter, the whistleblower admitted that they did not directly witness the call but said accounts shared by other officials had painted a consistent picture.

For context, about a dozen people are reported to have listened in on the conversation, including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

It’s important to note that the call occurred days after Mr Trump blocked about $391m (£316m) in military aid to Ukraine. Democrats argue this aid was used as a bargaining chip to pressure the new government in Kiev, but Mr Trump denies this.

The whistleblower’s complaint alleges that the president used “the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country” in next year’s presidential election (more on this later). They also alleged that White House officials had been “deeply disturbed” by the call and acted to “lock down” all details of it.

Amid the growing controversy, Mr Trump promised to release a “complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript” he said would prove the call had been “totally appropriate”.

But the details disclosed by the White House were notes of the conversation. It was not a full, verbatim, account and it did little to quell the spiralling controversy. The whisteblower’s complaint was made public shortly after.

The transcript of the call showed that Mr Trump had urged Mr Zelensky to investigate discredited corruption allegations against former Vice-President Joe Biden, a 2020 Democratic frontrunner, as well as Mr Biden’s son.

Mr Trump and his allies have been suggesting that Mr Biden, as Barack Obama’s vice-president, encouraged the firing of Ukraine’s top prosecutor in 2015 because he had been investigating an energy company which employed Hunter Biden.

At the time, by working closely with foreign-owned entities while his father was in the White House, Hunter Biden was criticised for leaving his father exposed to suggestions of a possible conflict of interest. But no evidence has emerged that Mr Biden took any action to intentionally benefit his son.

The Ukrainian prosecutor who replaced the one who was fired told the BBC there was no reason for Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and that any corruption with the company happened before Hunter Biden joined.

Mr Trump has pointed to a boast Mr Biden made in 2018 about how as vice-president he had threatened to withhold a billion dollars in aid from Ukraine unless the prosecutor was fired.

But motivation is key here. Mr Biden wanted him removed precisely because he was failing to crack down on corruption. And the vice-president was not acting alone, but rather as the focal point of a wider anti-corruption drive in Ukraine backed by the US government, European allies and the International Monetary Fund.

Mr Trump pressing a foreign leader to investigate the discredited allegations against Mr Biden is significant. This is because Mr Biden is the current favourite to win the Democratic nomination and, if chosen, he would be the man facing off against Mr Trump for the presidency in November 2020.

As Mr Biden is his biggest rival for the presidency, it opens Mr Trump up to claims he was working with a foreign power to influence the election. This – crucially – is against the law.

This is not the first time Mr Trump has been scrutinised over his foreign connections. His 2016 election campaign was investigated over its alleged ties to Russia. The inquiry did not establish a criminal conspiracy to influence the election, but it also did not exonerate the president.

The Democrats have launched a formal impeachment inquiry and have spared no time in getting to work. House Democrats demanded that five department officials – including the former US ambassador to Ukraine – appear for depositions in October.

The president’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, was subpoenaed for documents relating to Ukraine. Mr Giuliani has been central in pushing the allegations against the Bidens. Secretary Pompeo was also served with a subpoena.

So, this is the background to the impeachment inquiry against President Trump. Is the action credible? It remains to be seen, it is of course entirely feasible that a narcissist would take such steps by involving a third party (including the leader of another country) to obtain damaging information against a political rival to prevent that rival running against him. The narcissist functions through requiring absolute control at all times. This is our viewpoint and must be maintained. This is achieved through the application of manipulations – some blunt and obvious and some virtually undetectable. 

The type of manipulation we use depends upon the relevant school of narcissist (Lesser, Mid-Range or Greater) , the level of threat to our control caused by the appliance (person) and how in control we already feel (unconsciously) prior to the threat arising. We require control and fuel, fuel denoting that we have control and enabling us to feel powerful.

Everything revolves around this. 

Accordingly, recognising that a political rival might unseat him, President Trump feels that his control is threatened. He therefore must assert control and one way of doing so would be to remove the threat to his control posed by his opponent. One way of doing this would be to damage that opponent´s campaign and credibility, by digging up information to be used against that opponent. This allows control to be asserted. 

If (and this has yet to be established) President Trump took this step of seeking damaging information from the leader of the Ukraine, he did do in order to assert control over Mr Biden.

The ongoing actions of the Democrats will also threaten President Trump´s sense of control. Thus, as a narcissist, he is duty-bound to reject these threats to his control. A narcissist might do this by smearing or by giving a person a silent treatment or by issuing an insult. There are hundreds of different ways that control is sought. The majority of narcissists are unaware that this is what they are doing, they have a conscious belief that they are only acting this way because, usually, it is the fault of the person who is causing the unconscious threat to their control.

Thus, the wife of a narcissist asks “Where have you been? It is 2am in the morning and you said you would be home at 8pm.” From her position, she is not being unreasonable in demanding to know where he has been.

Her husband, a narcissist, does not hear what she says and thinks

“She is right. I said I would be home by 8pm and I have just wandered in at 2am smelling of alcohol and perfume. No wonder she is angry. I will explain and apologise.”

The husbands narcissism, at an unconscious level, if it could speak would say

This appliance is trying to control us by limiting our sense of entitlement to do what we want. It is also trying to blame us and therefore make us accountable. We also have no emotional empathy for her anger, upset and concern. Accordingly, this means she is trying to control us and make us feel powerless. This must be stopped by all and any means possible.”

Understand this is an unconscious response. The narcissist is not thinking this, his narcissism instead “lets” him think

“Jesus, she is such a nag. All I did was hang out at the bar for a while, why is she getting on my case. No wonder I go there to escape this harridan. Who does she think she is telling me what to do, she is out of order, I am going to put her in her place.” He then argues with her going round and round, shouting at her, labelling her controlling and a killjoy. He is manipulating her (although he does not see this), in his mind he is defending himself and pointing out her failings. He is using provocation, blame shifting, verbal insult, circular conversations as manipulations until tired and frustrated she gives in and tells him to “forget it, she is just a horrible cow.” The narcissist now has control and he halts the argument because in his world, he now has won.

With that comparison in a domestic setting involving a narcissist, how does this play out with regard to The President of the United States and his need for control at all times, when this control is threatened by the actions of the Democrats? Let’s see.

US President Donald Trump has lashed out at congressional Democrats after they vowed to summons the White House to produce documents this week. (The lashing out is the response to the threat to control. It is instinctive (in this case) and has to be visceral and immediate)

Committees are demanding documents relating to the administration’s dealings with Ukraine, which is now at the heart of an impeachment inquiry.

The president accused Democratic leaders of dishonesty and even treason. (Provocation. It may be the case that the allegations against President Trump are baseless. A more evolved narcissist would state as such, issuing a bare denial, use words such as “without foundation”, “baseless” or “unproven”. Such pejorative language evidences the heated response arising from the ignition of fury caused by these acts threatening President Trump´s control. At this point in time, it does not matter if the allegations are correct or not, what matters is that the very fact of merely STATING them threatens control and results in this response.)

Democrats have defended the inquiry – which focuses on a phone call between Mr Trump’s and the Ukrainian president.

During a joint news conference with Finnish President Sauli Niinistö, Mr Trump called Mr Biden and his son, Hunter, “stone-cold corrupt”. (Again Provocation through a pejorative comment. Even if Biden and his son turn about to be corrupt (so far there is no legal action against them with regard to corruption) the use of this language in such a forceful manner by someone who is supposedly a statesman demonstrates the rudimentary response to asserting control. If President Obama (also a narcissist but of a different school) faced this scenario, his response would have used completely different language if the allegations had even seen the light of day).

Mr Trump directed much of his anger towards House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, calling him “shifty Schiff, “a lowlife” and saying he “should resign from office in disgrace”. (Further response to the need for control – again using Insulting Labels as a form provocation. This haughty response is also indicative of his narcissism).

He added: “Frankly, they should look at him for treason.” (Provocation)

Mr Trump also stated that he believed Mr Schiff had “helped write” a complaint about the call filed by a whistleblower, without offering evidence. (Evidence of paranoia, the failure to offer evidence is a common response of President Trump´s school, this is because (a) his word and belief is his evidence (grandiosity and his narcissistic perspective) and (b) he does not actually need “evidence” (in the sense as understood by non-narcissists) to assert control in this particular instance. All he needs to do is declare that there is a conspiracy against him and that enables him (absent any immediate response which was the case here) to assert control.

The US president told reporters that only “legitimate” whistleblowers should be protected. (This splitting of the type of whistleblower essentially states “Anybody who whistle blows in relation to me and my regime has no legitimacy and they are wrong (in my universe) 

“This country has to find out who this person was, because that person’s a spy, in my opinion,” Mr Trump said. (Absolutely the case – a spy against the United State of Donald Trump, a treacherous, disloyal and untrustworthy individual, the view that narcissists take of those who threaten our control.)

He labelled the entire inquiry a “hoax” and a “fraudulent crime on the American people” while maintaining he would “always co-operate” with Congress. (More labelling in order to assert control and to reduce the credibility of the enquiry. Note the worldview of other people being an extension of the narcissist – Trump sees the American people as part of him and therefore the crime against him is also a crime against the American people. This is also grandiosity.)

The US president also sparred at the White House with a Reuters correspondent, who asked him what he considered treasonous. (Although The BBC report does not state the exact words used in this exchange with the Reuters correspondent, it is described as sparring (not a discussion or a debate but the more pugilistic sparring which demonstrates a back and forth between President Trump and the correspondent. The correspondent doubtless was disagreeing with President Trump and providing him with Challenge Fuel, this would threaten Trump´s perception of control leading him to respond in his usual robust and direct style by arguing to put down the “act of rebellion” which manifests in the correspondents attempt to reject control.

As the Finnish leader looked on, Mr Trump said “there are those who think I’m a very stable genius” and said he “probably will be bringing a lot of litigation” against those who participated in the Russia investigation. (Grandiosity – note it is not stated who has actually referred to him as a very stable genius. This comment also appears to be something of a non sequitur in the press conference which shows how Trump has a differing perception of the world to the others there. In his world, it was necessary to assert his status as a very stable genius in order to get control. Furthermore, the comment about litigation is the Use of Threat, again to gain control in the moment. If he gains it, he will not embark on litigation however, should the allegations persists (which they most likely will) litigation will follow.

When the reporter pressed Mr Trump, the US president cut him off, saying: “Don’t be rude.” (Haughtiness, Interruption, Projection.)


Earlier, Mr Trump raged at the most powerful elected Democrat, House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Mr Schiff on Twitter, accusing Democrats of focusing on “BULLSHIT”.

He tweeted

The Do Nothing Democrats should be focused on building up our Country, not wasting everyone’s time and energy on BULLSHIT, which is what they have been doing ever since I got overwhelmingly elected in 2016, 223-306. Get a better candidate this time, you’ll need it!

(President Trump´s use of Twitter is notorious as an outlet by which he seeks to gain control over people. He is in effect hoovering those who read his tweets and those he believes will read his tweets (which will be a large number given his status) and in so doing this act of hoovering is to assert control. In this instance, Nancy Pelosi as a Democrat challenges Trump´s control because of the existence of the impeachment inquiry. Trump must respond and he does so with this tweet, this is done because 

1. He needs a swift response and an electronic hoover through Twitter enables this,

2. It is easy to do – he just types and sends. This ease caters both to speed and also the economy of effort beloved of Lazy Lessers and Minimum Effort Mid Range Narcissists)

3. He is haughty, dismissive and insulting, using a profanity (hardly the language of diplomacy or statesmanship) but entirely in keeping with his school of narcissism

4. He attacks his opponents, rather than the argument, the typical ad hominem response of his school of narcissist.

5. More grandiosity as he reminds everybody of his “overwhelming election” win (it is unnecessary for this reminder to be issued, people know he won, that is why he is President, but it is part of his grandiosity which is used to assert control)

Mr Trump said Mrs Pelosi should focus on her own city, San Francisco, which he described as a “tent city” of homeless people. (Homelessness is an issue in San Francisco (like many cities) but a homeless population of 9 784 out of a population of 884 367 does not equate to a tent city. That of course does not matter, what matters is the need for control and this is sought by an exaggerated insult towards the individual threatening control, Mrs Pelosi and her city.)

Democrats have accused the White House of blocking congressional inquiries and refusing to respond to record requests, which has prompted the subpoena threat this week.

House oversight committee chairman Elijah Cummings said in a memo: “I do not take this step lightly.

“Over the past several weeks, the committees tried several times to obtain voluntary compliance with our requests for documents, but the White House has refused to engage with – or even respond to – the committees.” (Note the refusal to engage or respond to the committees demonstrates a sense of entitlement, a haughtiness, a lack of accountability and is all done to assert control. The failure to respond is a giant Silent Treatment, another manipulation.)

The subpoena will request documents on Mr Trump’s call with Ukraine and any related items from acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney.

Mrs Pelosi and Mr Schiff held a joint news conference on Wednesday, defending the impeachment proceedings.

“We’re not fooling around here,” Mr Schiff said, adding that Democrats did not want the inquiry to “drag on”.

He also criticised the president’s comments against the whistleblower as “a blatant effort to intimidate witnesses” and “an incitement of violence”. (This is what it appears to be, but it is actually all about seeking to assert and maintain control, to counter threats to control, control and fuel being the very things all narcissists must have – to learn more about why read To Control Is To Cope

Mr Schiff has also issued a statement saying his committee never reviewed or received the whistleblower’s complaint in advance, as Mr Trump claimed.

Accordingly, this latest episode in the Trump Administration once again shows A Very POTUS Narcissist at work and providing clear examples of how President Trump´s narcissism operates.

Will he be impeached? Firstly, Congress has to pass articles of impeachment and if that passes then the Senate must hold a trial. The Senate vote requires a two-thirds majority to convict and since President Trump´s party controls the chamber, it is unlikely he will be impeached. You might think he would sit tight and ignore the process or co-operate, content in the knowledge that his party will ensure he is not impeached, but he cannot do this. Why? Firstly, he does not, like Mid Range or Greater Narcissists operate a facade, what you see is direct, robust and in your face (part of his voter appeal also) therefore he sees no need to be the statesman (something evidence repeatedly in his interactions and comments with other world leaders and politicians). Secondly, if there is an impeachment trial, that is some way off and it is the process and allegations NOW which he must respond to in order to assert control, hence the various (base) manipulations that were witnessed above.

Trump will fight to remain in situ and in power. His narcissism dictates that must be the case and by any means possible. The manipulations will continue and will in all likelihood increase in size, intensity and scope.



592 thoughts on “A Very POTUS Narcissist – The Threat of Impeachment

  1. Violetta says:

    From DM:

    Signs and posters are covering a temporary security fence outside of the White House with many calling President Donald Trump a ‘loser’ and reading: ‘Time to go’
    Another section has a pink sign that reads ‘Eviction Notice’ next to another stating ‘Count Every Vote,’ referring to President Trump’s efforts to stop votes from being counted in states where he was ahead
    One protester attached a scarecrow to the top of the fence wearing a orange hooded sweatshirt with ‘Trump Pence #OutNow’ printed on it
    Some of the signs weren’t directed at Trump himself including those that read Black Lives Matter’ or the names of Black men and women who have been killed by cops, such as George Floyd and Breonna Taylor
    It comes as Democratic nominee Joe Biden took leads in Pennsylvania and Georgia and looks to be on track to capture the 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency
    Trump continues to spread false claims about widespread voter fraud and has vowed to fight the results

    I’ve seen footage of newsmen interviewing people on the White House lawn after Watergate. One person after another talked about what a dirty crook Nixon was. Finally the news anchor held the mic to an old guy who looked like a farmer, obviously expecting him to defend Nixon. The old guy said, “Well, all politicians are crooks, don’t see why they’re making such a fuss ’bout this one.” The voice of wisdom in a bandwagon crowd. I’ve been leery of bandwagons ever since, though I didn’t vote for Trump either time.

    1. Another Cat says:

      I guess, Violetta, newspapers desperately need narcissists, e g Nixon and Putin. Headlines sell and narcissists are Experts at making daily headlines. Yes, I think Greta is also a narc.

      Your old guy there was right. Bandwagons/dramas are about selling newspapers, clicks and merchandise.

  2. blackcoffee30 says:

    Well, the SCOTUS tax case didn’t go so well for Orange Julius, so he’s having a Twitter meltdown. I love it!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Which shows how his narcissism only focusses on the instant rather than the long game. It has been booted back to a lower court and there are a range of legal arguments he can utilise with regard to the tension between legislative power versus presidential privilege. He can use that to slow it all down so that any potential disclosure (and that may not even happen as it has been pursuant to a secret grand jury) is way down the line, thus ensuring no damage to political capital. Of course, given what he is, he fails to recognise that and instead asserts control through a Twitter rant. The interesting result is, he damages his political capital with those rants with some and maintains it with others. It remains to be seen if the balance of where that diminution/enhancement lies.

      1. BC30 says:

        Watching his little rant this evening, and it’s mind-boggling to me, but he sincerely believes the election is being “stolen.” His narcissism will not let him lose.

        People are using binoculars to observe the ballot counting! Ha ha ha ha

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed, the prospect of losing is a threat to his control and his narcissism seeks to assert control through these allegations.

          1. Bibi says:

            Can we just pick a Pres already? C’mon Nevada! Are you asleep Arizona? Trump wants to stop counting if it doesn’t serve him. He is such a hamster turd.

          2. Violetta says:

            Biden has made all the right noises about being president to those who didn’t vote for him as well as those who.did. He knows how to play the part, at least until the Sunset Effect kicks in.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Fear of loss of control is right. If Trump had any real confidence that he is the true winner he would not be afraid for the count to continue. He would be confident that the continued count would just be more votes for him and confirm his dominance.

            But there is no real confidence. There is only the illusion of it offered up by his great protector – his narcissism. How great is that? That he is blind to the fact that he is but a sad parody of actual confidence and that allows him to bulldoze forward. Narcissism really is a total defence system. Fascinating how it works.

          4. HG Tudor says:


          5. Violetta says:

            That’s why he has the rallies. They weren’t just to garner votes or even instigate violence (he’s trying to arrange one now, no matter what the final count says) as a long-term plan to maintain his grasp on the presidency. The rallies, the votes, and the violence are all bandaids applied to his cracking shell.

          6. SMH says:

            HG, We are all seeing a really important lesson unfold. Thank you for your guidance through the dark days.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome, I am pleased you recognise that, SMH.

          8. BC30 says:

            He is described as “dejected” and not having “furious outbursts” as often as expected. We know he is not sad, so what is he feeling when he is dejected and preventing the normal frequency of furious outbursts?

          9. HG Tudor says:

            In turmoil, weakened, the void is reaching for him.

          10. BC30 says:

            I guess what I don’t understand is why this is happening when he has so many sycophants, enablers, fans, and supporters. I mean does he really need to believe that EVERYONE loves him? You would think he would be “happy” with as much support as he has. Maybe because he is in DC where he is constantly exposed to the opposition he can’t control (perceived control). Guess I have more to learn.

        2. Alexissmith2016 says:

          Great question re him not raging as much BC

  3. Dolores Haze says:

    I lost the thread where it was being discussed what kind of narcissist Obama is, but my best guess is Middle Greater Elite. It seems like he knows what he’s doing to make sure “people sleepwalk into his arms” (to quote HG). HG, am I correct?

    1. BC30 says:

      No, Obama is the cream of the crop–Upper Greater Elite. Everything about him is a testament to it (and he can get it).

  4. Violetta says:

    I just caught part of The Dead Zone between hanging up laundry, changing bed-linen, etc. I had read the book a long time ago, but never seen the movie.

    Greg Stillson. Initially superficially charming, his outrageous stunts are crowd-pleasers, it seems like he’s in on the joke …. but if he gets into the White House, he could destroy the world. He’s not only incompetent; he refuses to recognize his incompetence. He’d rather destroy the world than admit he could ever be wrong, even to himself.

    Stillson doesn’t get into the White House. I think we’re seeing what would happen if he had.

  5. MommyPino says:

    SMH, you piling on was predictable. You’re pretty consistent. I’m glad I’m not the kind of person who hates other people because of politics.

    1. MommyPino says:

      Woops! I thought this didn’t go through. I apologize for the redundancy.

      1. SMH says:

        I don’t hate anyone, MP. I just hate drivel.

    2. BabyEmms says:

      MommyPino, For some reason I don’t get the option to reply to your response to my question. Thanks for your honesty, I was genuinely just curious and not looking for confrontation and I’m glad you got that. I think that politics here in Britain are slightly, or maybe largely, different than in the U.S. and the media only shows us so much & from what I’ve seen so far, Trump does not seem to care about the American people anywhere near as much as he cares about his own image. But if you as an American agree with his policies then who am I to disagree. And if you were faced with choosing between 2 evils then you had to choose who you thought was the less evil. Not an easy choice for anyone x I haven’t read your narc story yet but I will at some point. I’m very new to this site but so far I’m finding it the best medicine to get over a very traumatic period in my life due to a narcissist (I think? If not, a very bad messed up person at least) and the fact you’re even on this site suggests you have been in some way negatively affected by a Narcissist. So lots of love to you x x x

      1. mommypino says:

        Thank you so much BabyEmms.

        I’m very sorry that you have been abused by a narcissist. Narcissistic abuse is probably one of the most traumatic experiences that any person can possibly go through in life. I think it is even comparable to traumatic experiences of someone living in war.

        I was raised by a maternal narcissist. It was me and her against the world for the first 26 years of my life. I wasn’t allowed to do much in my life unless she felt she controlled it or it is on her terms.
        My situation in my home country didn’t allow me to be able to escape at a younger age that most ACONS in the Western world were blessed to be able to do when they turned 18 (some even younger). My father was an empath, an American who wrote letters to me and financially supported me but I have never met him until I was 26. My half sister from my father that I met when I was 26 and lived with for a period after our dad died was also a narcissist. I am married to a Normal and I have two stepdaughters who are highly narcissistic (I think they are both narcissists). The younger SD’s meanness is less passive aggressive and her behaviors are much more obviously problematic that she and my older SD (also a narc) agreed you have her go to a psychiatrist to find out what is wrong with her and he psychiatrist diagnosed her with bipolar disorder but I think that the psychiatrist just do not know her well enough and the diagnosis should be NPD. Their mom has many characteristics of a Victim narcissist.

        I want to read your story as well. I have not been able to be on the blog as often as I used to when I was still hurting badly and learning as much as I can. My wounds are almost all healed now and I am just now trying to learn about myself and how to fix whatever damages I may have had from my narcissistic entanglements. But I will keep an eye on your comments whenever I visit the blog. I’m very happy that it is giving you healing. I agree with you that it is the best medicine because when HG details the behaviors in his articles in the most effective way that removes any doubt that you have indeed been abused and it is very validating. Truth sets us free and to have all of the answers from here sets us free.

        1. BabyEmms says:

          Hi MommyPino, I had a break from narcsite for a few weeks as I thought I didn’t need it any longer following a consultation with HG, however, Nex turned up a few days ago and I have regressed.
          My narc was my first love, kiss, everything. Dated from age 13-17 then he cheatedc2 weeks after I gave him my virginity. I didn’t hear from him until 26 years later when he hoovered me big time. We had a whirlwind relationship for almost a year before discard. We planned to marry, our kids/families were close, I thought all my dreams had come true then, bam, the discard started & the smear campaign & so many awful lies & cheating & basically put me into therapy, broke me into a thousand pieces like he did when we were teens, and after 7 months of recovery I felt I was getting somewhere. Until a few days ago when he was on my doorstep…. and I realised that he still has me and I don’t think I will ever not be head over heels smitten when he looks at me/kisses me. I didn’t give anymore than chat & kisses, he wanted more, I walked away but almost instantly regretted it and now am missing him so much. I know more than ever what he is & that he will never love properly and I know he has done bad things so why do I crave to be with someone like that?

          Your story is very sad, I hate the thought of someone having to be brought up by a mother who is a narcissist, thankfully you did not follow that path x

          1. mommypino says:

            Baby Ems I’m so sorry that you went through that. HG has always warned commenters here to never break No Contact because that is when the Emotional Thinking comes back. It is important that you know that what you’re going through is a side effect of breaking No Contact and nothing more. It does feel like the narcissist has been an essential part of our lives with all of the milestones and experiences that we spent with them. But your real life only starts whenever the narcissist is not a part of it. Trying to build a life with a narcissist is like trying to build a sand castle. You can make it as beautiful as you want but it will never last. Missing him is your addiction getting triggered by your emotional thinking. I think that you need to consult with HG or read his materials on addiction. I have never had a real romantic relationship with a narcissist but I have experienced that addiction or deeply yearning for the narcissist. I can somehow understand how hard it is to control. It helped me at that time when I learned that this feeling is caused by chemicals in my brain that was triggered. If you think about it, they are just chemicals in your brains that cause a similar effect as the ones that drug addicts feel and the only way for those chemicals to subside is to never have any form of contact with the narcissist. Try your best to think of other things. HG’s Book Exorcism helps with that as well with ideas. It does help to keep in mind that what you are feeling is just addiction and not love that is healthy or good for you. If it is possible I think that it will help you immensely to talk to HG. 💕

          2. BabyEmms says:

            Thank you so much MommyPino. I love your sandcastle analogy, I will always remember that, it’s so true x and I shall read your/HGs recommended reads x

          3. mommypino says:

            You’re most welcome BabyEmms! And you always have this blog to vent and ask questions whenever you need to or as often as you want to. I’m so happy that you reached out. 💕

  6. Mercy says:

    HG, how can so many people overlook the lies? I’m not talking about questionable stuff, I mean things like him saying something one day then the next saying “I never said that”. Do they really not see it or do they not care that he does it?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. You have True Believers who similarly believe what is being said and edit out what was said which is contradictory.
      2. You have those who do not hear the specifics of the allegation, but rather the “attack”, so when you point out “I have watched the footage and he did not make the detergent remark in a sarcastic manner at all” all they hear is “attack, attack, attack”.
      3. Many realise a lie has been told but either do not want to admit it (because they hate to proven wrong) or they will admit it but justify it in some way (“well it is no wonder he tells lies because he is sick of all the lies that are told about him” or “yeah so he got that wrong but look at Biden (cue insult about Biden)” or “yes but look at all the jobs that have been created”) so in effect they do not care. This third category is the largest.

      1. Violetta says:

        Is this a Pity Play or a boast, implying he must be tougher than Lincoln:

        Headline: “Donald Trump says at Lincoln Memorial town hall that he’s ‘treated worse’ than Abe by the press – as a supporter asks him why he bullies, rambles and doesn’t answer reporters’ questions”

        Apparently, Trump doesn’t realize than in addition to being ended by assassination, Lincoln’s presidency commenced with his sneaking into town with his wife; he was so unpopular they didn’t dare make the customary procession down the street.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is a boast.

          1. Violetta says:

            Thank you.


      2. Mercy says:

        Thank you HG for your reply. I can see that the majority are in the 3rd category. It seems like they would be more credible if they would acknowledge the lies at least. I can understand supporting a political party because it’s in line with a persons views but the fierce loyalty to our current president makes very intelligent respectable people look ignorant.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

      3. Bibi says:

        Trump supporters are cultists. There is no reasoning with them. Literally, Trump can do no wrong. It is unbelievable. The problem is that the Left does not fire back hard enough–the Dems choose limp dick candidates like Biden who ‘will choose a woman’ and he has no ideas.

        Trump. despite his many flaws, has the ability to get people worked up. His supporters would rather die penniless and without insurance as they cling to their assault rifles than betray their loyalty to a Pres who literally does not give a shit about anyone but himself.

        A truly evil family.

        1. Mercy says:

          Bibi, the cultists are a small percent of his followers. They are the ones that the media hype up. I’d like to believe that the majority of people that voted for Trump are sitting in their living rooms watching on TV thinking “this is not what I stand for”.

          Have you ever seen images of riots and protest in the past where it is the authorities in danger?Like in the days of MLK. I haven’t but we are seeing them now. Can you imagine the Freedom March in 63 having armed protesters? It’s frightening. I would love it if another Republican leader would stand up and say this isn’t who we are. I say Republican because right now Democrats have no voice. The US needs someone that has the ability to reach all sides.

        2. Renarde says:

          Agreed Bibi.

          When I heard Biden was picking a woman for his running partner, I cringed.

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      Great question Mercy!

      1. Mercy says:

        Alex, thank you. Something that is also interesting to me is the media. The other day one of the media outlets reported the mass number of vaccines that Trump said will be produced by the end of the year. The reporter ended by saying that he hopes the president is telling the truth this time. It made me laugh because he used the word “hope” and this is a reporter that regularly calls Trump out on lies. I think that word will always be a red flag for me.

        1. MommyPino says:

          I don’t want to get in a heated argument where we end up insulting each other. But I will be brave enough to give you a perspective from a Trump supporter.

          I have always known that politicians lie. They all do it. Some do a better job at masking their lies and some do a poor job. Some lie about stupid stuff that are really inconsequential and some lie about major stuff but are able to mask it better. Lying is not a disqualifying factor because if it is then I cannot vote for probably 95% of politicians. The deciding factor for me and many Trump supporters that I know is the end result. Is Trump giving us what we want? And the answer is yes.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            As predicted.

          2. SMH says:

            lol HG. Name not even mentioned, as far as I read (glanced at because I knew what would happen).

          3. mommypino says:

            HG, does it bother you that I added my two cents here? The original post was a question about people who support Trump. Several commenters have given their opinions. Was I wrong for adding my perspective? I did not defend Trump and I did not attack Mercy or any other commenters, I simply gave my side as one of the people that they are talking about. If that is not welcome here then I have no problem refraining. I would not bother next time.

            SMH, you showing up to pile on me is as predictable as a cliché. It doesn’t provoke or bother me in any way. Nothing from you does. I’m glad I’m not the kind of person who hates people because of politics. I am proud to say that I have friends that I love who hate Trump.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Not at all. Please identify where I have written anything which takes issue with what you’ve written.

          5. mommypino says:

            Thank you for answering. You said, “as predicted.” I took it as meaning you think that I am doing something bad as predicted that I would do. What were you referring to?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            I wrote in an earlier answer on this read, in response to a question :-

            “3. Many realise a lie has been told but either do not want to admit it (because they hate to proven wrong) or they will admit it but justify it in some way (“well it is no wonder he tells lies because he is sick of all the lies that are told about him” or “yeah so he got that wrong but look at Biden (cue insult about Biden)” or “yes but look at all the jobs that have been created”) so in effect they do not care. This third category is the largest.”

            You then wrote

            “I have always known that politicians lie. They all do it. Some do a better job at masking their lies and some do a poor job. Some lie about stupid stuff that are really inconsequential and some lie about major stuff but are able to mask it better. Lying is not a disqualifying factor because if it is then I cannot vote for probably 95% of politicians. The deciding factor for me and many Trump supporters that I know is the end result. Is Trump giving us what we want? And the answer is yes.”

            Let´s break it down even further :-
            I wrote (quoted from above)
            “Many realise a lie has been told”
            You wrote (quoted from above)
            “I have always known that politicians lie. They all do it”
            I wrote (quoted from above)
            “they will admit it but justify it in some way”
            You wrote
            “The deciding factor for me and many Trump supporters that I know is the end result. Is Trump giving us what we want? And the answer is yes.”

            You answered exactly as I predicted, hence the comment “as predicted”.

            You inferred that my comment meant something bad. There is nothing in my comment that can be reasonably inferred to be bad, but you still did so anyway.
            You got it wrong.

          7. mommypino says:

            Thank you HG for explaining to me. I recognize that I fit in general description of the third category you described. Except that the ‘insert insult to Biden’ are more like facts about Biden and other options that make us not want him or them. And the low unemployment and increase in wages etc. are not justifications for why we support him but they are the main driving factors. If Trump did not deliver, I would be more amenable to being swayed by an opposing candidate. I was not persuaded by John McCain because at that time I didn’t think that he would be able to bring the economy back to life. Hillary jokes are fun to toss around because I am not picking on an empath that I believe would be hurt by bullying and there are a lot of truth in those jokes. I don’t mind insults to Trump either regarding his appearance and behaviors etc. and I have been reading a lot of them here at Narcsite and didn’t bother to respond to majority of them. I respond when I feel that there is a need for the other side to be heard regarding inaccuracies, unfair portrayal of a certain group of our society (Trump supporters) or there is a side to a story that needs to be brought up.

            I did get it wrong about what you mean. I have been mixing your comments and SMH’s comments from here and from the previous thread where I shared a Hillary joke. It has been bothering me because I was feeling that you were teaming up because you disagree with my opinions and I wasn’t sure if I was still welcome to give my opinions. This is your blog (your house) and it bothers me to think that my opinions could be causing you to dislike my presence here. Thank you for clarifying that you didn’t mean to say that my behavior was bad or that my opinion was bad. My bad.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            What you have a habit of doing MP is failing to read what is written and in your honest haste to rush to Trump´s defence, you infer an interpretation which is not there on a simple reading of what was written and assume that there is some negative inference. There is not. You have done it again in your comment above by expanding unnecessarily. You also missed this point – you wrote “I respond when I feel that there is a need for the other side to be heard regarding inaccuracies,” so you thus commented, yet you actually demonstrated with your initial response that my original comment was accurate. I explained one of the categories that certain Trump supporters fall into and you came along and demonstrated that to a tee. There was thus no inaccuracy to address.

            Mercy asked a question. I answered it. You then felt compelled (because Trump and his supporters were mentioned) to weigh in. You are, of course, perfectly entitled to comment but it was unnecessary. Your comment demonstrated what I was explaining to Mercy. That does not mean it is a bad thing (you infer that it is, but that is your issue). It is simply an observation about the behaviours.

            Note the difference between these two comments :-

            This is what I wrote “3. Many realise a lie has been told but either do not want to admit it (because they hate to proven wrong) or they will admit it but justify it in some way (“well it is no wonder he tells lies because he is sick of all the lies that are told about him” or “yeah so he got that wrong but look at Biden (cue insult about Biden)” or “yes but look at all the jobs that have been created”) so in effect they do not care. This third category is the largest.” It is a straight-forward observation, some of the supporters realise he lies, but in effect do not care that he does so. There is nothing to be inferred.
            Now compare it to this
            “3. Many realise a lie has been told but either do not want to admit it (because they hate to proven wrong since they are such arrogant fools) or they will admit it but justify it in some crazy way (“well it is no wonder he tells lies because he is sick of all the lies that are told about him” or “yeah so he got that wrong but look at Biden (cue insult about Biden)” or “yes but look at all the jobs that have been created”) so in effect they do not care and what a tragic group of individuals they are for being like that. This third category is the largest. It just goes to show how moronic they are adopting such a brain-dead position.”
            That is not a straight-forward observation, it passes value-judgment on the supporters for adopting that position. This amended response would cause offence to some individuals (and find support amongst others) but as I have repeatedly stated, it is not about saying whether it is “good” or “bad” it is about explaining. Mercy asked a question, I answered it, that is all.

          9. mommypino says:

            Hi HG, thank you 🙏 for your responses. I appreciate your understanding. If I may just clarify what I was referring to as inaccuracies (and I know it is partly because I was not separating things out properly and that causes confusion). I hope this doesn’t offend anyone, I was referring to the comments by my fellow commenters (I’m mixing comments from different people) that the third category doesn’t acknowledge the lies or that the supporters as a whole cling to assault riffles (which I give credit to Mercy for addressing). I felt that it was inaccurate and so I decided to comment and add my two cents that in my opinion they all lie but I have different beliefs on what is good for the country. My brother is a liberal and he has different beliefs about where the government fundings should go to instead of big spending on defense and other policies. He has a student that he really likes but he doesn’t like that his student is a Libertarian and he told me about the views of his student which I agree with a lot of it but disagree with some. And I do remember you saying several times that you are not saying Trump’s policies are good or bad for the country, you are only talking about his narcissism.

            The reasons that I gave for responding also includes reasons for what prompted me to respond in other instances in other threads in the past. I kind of mixed them all up which made it confusing.

            I do acknowledge that I struggle with nuances and sometimes perceive or worry that there is something there when there might not be. I’m still learning and as you know this is my second language and to add to that I did not have a lot of socialization growing up due to the way my mom decided to raise me so I am still constantly learning. I could be wrong and maybe I actually have good social skills but sometimes I feel like I have a lot of catching up to do still. Narcsite has been quite a learning experience for me (at the comfort of my home!) and I do appreciate your patience with me on that aspect.

          10. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          11. mommypino says:

            HG, What I mean to say is that it was my mistake and I should read your comments to stand on its own and not relate it or mix it or associate it (I’m not sure what’s the most appropriate word) with the other commenters’ comments. It was my bad and I was wrong. But I’m also glad to know that you’re not on anyone’s team.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            I do not need to be on anybody’s “team”, I am on my own team. However, if I picked a “team” I am perfectly entitled to do so.

          13. mommypino says:

            But I’m not saying that to deflect. If you want me to explain more why I ended up feeling that way I am willing to try more to explain.

          14. HG Tudor says:

            There really is no need to.

          15. Narc noob says:

            MP, can I be so bold to say that from your perspective I understand where comments like these, but esp. others I have read, can possibly leave you feeling unsupported and even criticised. I was just chiming in to say that I feel you, if this is the case.

            When I first arrived I got what I felt was a similar dressing down – regarding another person. Of course we like/support someone for a good reason but sometimes our ET gets in the way of seeing the bigger picture when confronted by what can seem like attacks on us.

            This could be my issue and I could be way off track. Hugs, regardless xo

          16. mommypino says:

            Thank you for your kindness Narc Noob. I’m glad that HG clarified that my perception is wrong. I was mixing his response with others and because he tends to give short responses (not just to me, I’m not trying to say that he’s singling me out) it is often hard for me to understand what he meant although I can see other commenters don’t seem to have that problem.

          17. MommyPino says:

            HG, As predicted? What do you mean? Is it only the liberals’ opinions that are welcome in your blog. What was wrong with my comment?

          18. HG Tudor says:

            Do explain how the comment “As predicted” equates to “only the liberals´opinions that are welcome in your blog.” I will be fascinated to read how you manage to link the two.

          19. mommypino says:

            Hi HG, it was an impression that I have and I have explained it in my previous reply. I can try to elaborate and explain more if my previous reply is not expressed well enough. I appreciate your response that it isn’t the case. My bad.

          20. HG Tudor says:

            You accept you were wrong, that is fine. You need not expand and do not think that you have caused offence or caused a problem either. I know you are not a bad person, you just miss the point sometimes and end up thinking there is a problem there, when there is not.

          21. BabyEmms says:

            MommyPino, this is not a dig at you and nor is this a site for politics, however I am intrigued by your comment “Is Trump giving us what we want? ..Yes” can you explain what this is? I have never come into contact with a Trump supporter & would love to understand why you would vote for him initially, but to even now after his disastrous Covid19 responses think he is doing what you want? x

          22. mommypino says:

            Hi BabyEmms,

            Thank you for phrasing your question thoughtfully.

            I live in an area in California where majority are Trump supporters, probably a good 70%. Speaking for myself and for the ones that I know in person, it boils down to agreeing with his policies. I cannot speak for Trump supporters in other states. I have an old classmate who lived in the Midwest for her residency at a hospital there and she said that Trump supporters there are different from the Trump supporters here in California and I cannot pretend that I have a good idea about what she is talking about. I don’t own an assault rifle as I have no need for one and don’t collect guns. I don’t have a cult mentality. I vote based on policies. I voted for Obama in 2008 and I was a Democrat at that time. The policies that Obama implemented, his lies, and a lot of stuff that he handled poorly and his provocative manner made me register myself as an Independent. I didn’t like Trump when he first started his campaign. When he was the chosen one to fight Hillary, I decided to take him over Hillary.

          23. mommypino says:

            Hi BabyEmms,

            I feel that I need to clarify that California is mostly liberal and vote Democratic so I wasn’t referring to California as a whole. I was referring to a small rural area in California where I live in where most of the population are Trump supporters. I feel that the way I worded my earlier response might be confusing.

          24. Renarde says:


            Thank God you just clarified that CA is mostly Dem

            I was on the verge of cardiac arrest!

            You are a lovely person but on matters of Trump, you are very seriously misguided. I cannot wonder why you think this when you are clearly an intelligent person.

            So, as others have said, let’s leave the politics. For now

            How CAN you support a President who has been proven to be a serial abuser of women?

            How CAN you?

            Grab this pussy, rape that one, assault the next.

            If you are stating, very clearly I hope, that Trump has achieved this and that and it doesnt matter what hes done privately then I’m shaking my head at you as an excellent contributor to NS.

            And please dont fall into your logical fallacy of all leaders do this or that because it will not wash. This is NS.

            Now I will get political. All elections ride on the economy. His economy as ours has, has not just tanked, its fallen through the floor.

            Compare the price of Brent Crude today as opposed to say 6 months ago.

            They cant give it away.

            Yup. Hes is TOTALLY a president in control.

            I await your response with interest.

          25. mommypino says:

            Hi Renarde, thank you for your message. I will respond tonight as it is Cinco de Mayo here and I have to make flans. 🍮.

            Take care!

          26. Renarde says:


            Good to have a time out and refresh.

            Please remember nothing personal chuck!

            Argue the argument. X

          27. mommypino says:

            Hi Renarde, I think I will answer your comment in installments.

            “ How CAN you support a President who has been proven to be a serial abuser of women?

            How CAN you?

            Grab this pussy, rape that one, assault the next.”

            I am not aware of any credible story that Trump raped any woman. If you do please share it with me and I can look at it and see if I believe it.

            The grab the pussy comment I thought was just him bragging to another guy about how powerful he is. It was a narcissistic brag and I believe that Trump exaggerated there. I listened to the tape and he was saying basically that he is such a big deal that women allow him to grab their pussy. He was saying to the other guy that women let him grab them wherever he wants because women think that he’s a really big deal. It was stupid. My husband, brother and dad would never talk like that, not even in private with another guy. But they are all not narcissists and have no desire to assert superiority by bragging. Trump‘s variety of narcissism makes him behave that way. Compare it to Bill Clinton who I believe actually raped Juanita Broderick. I have watched Juanita Broderick’s video telling her story and her story is amazingly credible. I think that HG’s students will learn a lot from that video because a lot of the things that HG describes in his articles were apparent in her story with the way both Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton behaves towards her. So last election, my choice was to vote for someone who bragged about having women let him grab them by their *pussy or do I vote for the woman who emotionally abused her husband’s rape victim and the other women that he also sexually and/or emotionally abused? Take note that this is my opinion and I totally understand if you don’t believe the stories about the Clintons. I’m just answering you to provide what my thought process was and not to convince you to think the way that I do.

            I will respond to the rest later as I have homeschooling to do. 🦋

          28. mommypino says:

            *behaved not behaves (typo error).

          29. Renarde says:


            No I havnt heard the tape but of course I believe you.

            Pretty sure Bill is a G. I’m sure HG has said that and of course Hilary is a MRN.

            I absolutely appreciate that for the US, this must have been one hell of a rough descion. I get that.

            I cant pretend to speak for the UK, but the general consensus is that not only is Trump a misogynistic, racist idiot, hes also a liability.

            The is a deep abhorrence in the UK for racism. Only a very small minority are and they tend to keep their traps shut.

            Has Trump raped a woman? I dont know so I’ll withdraw that comment. Has he assaulted women? Yes
            And that’s on record and no one did a damn thing about it.

            Hilary was perceived as a safer pair of hands but I agree, she’s AWFUL. But at least even semi attempted to be statesmanlike.

            Enjoy the home schooling!

            Thankyou for your comments and am looking forward to reading more x

          30. mommypino says:

            Thank you Renarde,

            Regarding statesmanship, I agree that Hillary has more of that than Trump. But it is the people who elect and to many of the voters, statesmanship is not the biggest qualification. Trump got his votes mostly from people in rural areas and blue collar workers while Hillary got hers from the urban areas and big cities with dense population (which is why she got the popular votes). The culture of those groups are very different in terms of how statesmanship is valued. In rural areas, people actually prefer people with less formality like Trump but dislikes people like Hillary or other MR politicians who appear too formal (stuck up) and less authentic. Bill Clinton is said to be the kind of politician who can crossover and be liked or loved by both groups. Right now I don’t see a politician like that here in the US.

            Another thing on statesmanship, immigrants like me and some of my immigrant acquaintances came from countries where the leaders are mostly Lessers and have no or very little statesmanship. We grew up with those types of leaders. When I had conversations with them, they agree that they don’t understand either why people think Trump is so horrible when he really isn’t that bad (compared to the leaders that we were used to). These are immigrants in my rural area though and of course they are very different from the immigrants who live in the cities where their opinions and perceptions are heavily influenced by the people around them which tend to be more liberal. One of my closest friends who is also a Filipina hates Trump and she lives in a city.

            Mirroring is a genius tool by narcissists and majority of them do it instinctively. Bill Clinton is a Greater according to HG which means he is much more effective with mirroring. I mentioned in the blog that he went to my home country before and it was a big deal when he wore our traditional costume because we were used to Western leaders wearing suits when they visit our country. After B. Clinton, G. Bush, Obama and Trump all wore our traditional costume when they visited our country so it wasn’t as big deal as when we saw B. Clinton do it because he was the first. B. Clinton didn’t mirror us with our accent or our traditional customs which would have made him look silly or inauthentic, he mirrored just right. Compare that to when Hillary used a fake Southern accent when she was running against Obama. It was cringe worthy because the lack of authenticity was so blatant. It was a terrible mirroring strategy. That is why she is not able to crossover and not likable to a huge group of voters, because she doesn’t have the skills that B. Clinton has.

            Regarding racism, a lot of people like me do not believe that he is racist. He has hired people from different races before he ran for president and he has been friends with people of different races in sports and Hollywood before he ran for president. He has supported causes for other races as well before he ran for president. But I think that he is a Lesser narcissist where there are no limits when he devalues someone. A lot of the things that he has said that they say were racist can be interpreted in different ways and I just don’t see it. I think that he believes he is superior to everyone regardless of their race. I was not aware of him being accused of racism before he ran for president so I feel that it was more political.

            Regarding Trump assaulting women, I think that some of the accusations look credible but majority of the other accusations look untrue. I look at the stories and a lot of them didn’t sound realistic to me. I don’t believe every accusations since my narcissistic mom used to accuse people of all kinds of things and even sued a lot of people for made up stories. That’s why I look at the stories and if the story doesn’t add up, I doubt the credibility. But there is at least one story of sexual assault against Trump that I have read that I believe and it was by a reporter when Melania was pregnant and the reporter visited their house. The story made sense to me so it felt very credible. But he didn’t rape her. Joe Biden also has a very credible sexual assault accusation right now although a lot of Democrats do not believe it either and think that the woman is just stupid. There are also a lot of unflattering photos of Biden where his body language were very creepy and inappropriate towards women and little girls.

          31. mommypino says:

            Renarde, also, what makes me dislike Hillary more than Trump was the fact that she was running as a champion for women and Trump was not. Everyone knows that Trump is a pig but Hillary was running to be a model and champion for all women and yet she re victimized Bill Clinton’s victims. I also heard a voice recording of her chuckling about successfully defending a child rapist free when she knew he really did it to that child. That child actually supported Trump and even attended one of the debates. She was heavily injured during the rape that she lost the ability to have her own kids. At that time I couldn’t understand how Hillary can chuckle about that. Now I know it’s because she doesn’t have empathy or conscience. She was chuckling about being victorious in winning that case.

          32. mommypino says:

            “ Now I will get political. All elections ride on the economy. His economy as ours has, has not just tanked, its fallen through the floor.

            Compare the price of Brent Crude today as opposed to say 6 months ago.

            They cant give it away.

            Yup. Hes is TOTALLY a president in control.”

            The economy is down because of the economy had to be closed down due to Covid 19. But before that the economy was doing really well and statistics show that. I honestly don’t believe that any Democrat can bring the economy back to life with their philosophy on how to run the economy.

          33. mommypino says:

            Hi Renarde, I have read more about Biden’s sexual assault accusation and based on the additional information about the accuser I’m changing my opinion that I said earlier. I think that I’m not sure anymore if her accusations are credible. The story seemed to make sense but I have read stuff about her as a person that makes me not sure anymore if she is credible as a person so maybe Biden is innocent. Only her and Biden knows the truth for sure.

          34. Mercy says:

            MommyPino, This is what I don’t understand.

            “Speaking for myself and for the ones that I know in person, it boils down to agreeing with his policies”

            I’m not sure Trump has policies. His stance changes daily according to what benefits him at the moment. This is why he will say one thing today and then deny it the next day. He set guidelines to open states slowly and then tweets that same day “free Michigan”. What happened to his guidelines?

          35. mommypino says:

            Hi Mercy, the governor in Michigan has been very uncooperative and unfriendly towards Trump. Wasn’t she the one who banned hydroxychloroquine in her state and ordered pharmacies to ignore physicians’ orders for the medication? Why does she think she’s smarter than the doctors? Then she got mad at a Democrat lawmaker who told her story that hydroxychloroquine saved her life a few hours after she took it when her Covid-19 got worse and caused her pneumonia. The lawmaker said that she had to beg and go through a lot to get the drug which saved her life in a matter of hours because it was banned by their governor. When Trump tweeted that, it was a provocation to the governor of Michigan who has been very political about the way she was handling all of this instead of really doing what is best for the people in her state. It was not a policy change. I don’t see his tweets as policies. I see his policies as separate and are heavily affected by his cabinet members.

          36. mommypino says:

            Hi Mercy, I have googled about Michigan’s situation since I was not informed about her executive order. It looks like her stay at home order was way off the deep end draconian that people don’t even have any option to buy gardening or home improvement supplies or travel interstate. I agree that she is removing too much of their freedom. Here in California interstate travel was not banned in fact we could have had a vacation in a resort but we voluntarily decided to cancel the reservation. Home improvements and gardening stores remained open and my husband went to those stores a few times during the shelter in place to buy supplies since he had more time home to do projects with me. The thought that those options were not even open or available to people in Michigan does seem over the top draconian and controlling. Although I am not a fan of protesters displaying firearms. I find that scary, weird and dangerous. I don’t agree in intimidating politicians or judges with violence to get my way.

          37. HG Tudor says:

            That’s enough with the political comments, they are irrelevant to this place. I am letting you off very lightly through this comment, as well.

          38. SMH says:

            I thought I had unsubscribed to this thread. Obviously did not work oh WordPress.

          39. HG Tudor says:

            I do not have that option!

          40. SMH says:

            lol I don’t seem to either. I feel your pain.

          41. mommypino says:

            HG, I was just answering questions. I will leave the discussion and thank you for letting my responses go through.

          42. Julie Petkovska says:

            MP, its hard isn’t it? Wanting to state your opinion without fearing retaliation.

            It’s like someone asking me to be vulnerable, super difficult.

            HG likes to debate, if you are not a strong debator it can be tricky.

            As predicted can be taken 2 ways.

            1. As predicted we know MP is a trump supporter and we know she will defend Trump

            2. If you come from a place of insecurity, it can be taken as a passive aggressive comment..
            … As predicted…here we go roll eyes.

            You are entitled to your beliefs and if you are prospering under his leadership and as the majority voted it is a democracy
            You don’t have to defend it.

            HG knows you are applying hiS work.

            Come from a place of security and the LOL of this world won’t bother you.

          43. HG Tudor says:

            You missed out the way it was actually stated, as I explained by reference to what was actually written.

          44. mommypino says:

            Thank you Julie, I was struggling to express why I felt that way and you have excellently explained both two interpretations that I was wondering about as I was trying to guess what he meant. HG’s explanation also came to my mind but ET started to creep in and favored the insecure interpretation and so that is why I asked him if only liberals can comment here. I appreciate your input for explaining what went into my mind and I’m glad that HG clarified that I was wrong.

          45. Mercy says:


            “As predicted”

            My question to HG was regarding Trump’s followers and if they are able to identify the lies and if they can, do they not care. HG replied with 3 different categories that his followers fall into. Your comment shows you fall into the 3rd category. HG outlined the categories and your comment illustrated the 3rd. As predicted.

            I’m sure knowing my stance, HG could predict categories in which I would fall into. That question was never presented to him though.

          46. Violetta says:


            I have to agree with you that they are mostly liars, and every time I vote, I try to figure out which liar will do the least amount of damage. My answer to that will probably differ from yours this election, but I won’t pretend for one minute that I’m enthralled with any of them.

          47. mommypino says:

            Thank you Violetta, you illustrated our situation perfectly. 🙌. We often have to choose between narcissists who lies but the difference is what we believe is better or the lesser evil.

          48. Mercy says:


            “MP, its hard isn’t it? Wanting to state your opinion without fearing retaliation.”

            Actually, MommyPino fearlessly states her opinion quite often. It is one quality I highly respect about her even though we do not always agree.

          49. mommypino says:

            Thank you Mercy. So kind of you. I respect that you are willing to consider the other side too and also very fearless as well.

  7. Violetta says:

    And people thought George III was a mad tyrant:

    DM headline:
    Trump replaces health department inspector general after she angered him with report he branded ‘fake news’ that highlighted critical shortages of test kits, PPE and ventilators

  8. InquiringMind says:

    We in the US are used to narcissistic Presidents. I think most people who seek power are narcissists of one kind or another. But so are most of the other player in this ridiculous saga. Congress is full of them too!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are correct IM.

      1. SMH says:

        There are good narcs and bad narcs. The jury is still out on you, HG.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, there are narcissists who perform certain actions which may be viewed as good or bad dependent on perspective.

          There is no jury with regard to me. I am beyond the scrutiny of one.

          1. SMH says:

            Jk HG!

  9. kel says:

    Obama won an Oscar last night for Best Documentary “American Factory”. If he is a narcissist, which I still don’t see, but will not worry about it, then be like him. I had to google to see if he won, I haven’t heard about it from the news yet.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      His production company won it. He is one.

  10. Hope7 says:

    How do narcissists deal with oppression? How does it affect their personality? Does it affect their cognitive empathy? I always thought people who are oppressed in one way or another (fat, ugly, poor, women in certain situations, less educated or intelligent people in certain situations, people without wealth or decent income, minorities in situations, disabled people in certain situations, people who have English as a second language in certain situations, immigrants in certain situations, people with alternative religions than what is mainstream in certain situations, non cis-gendered people in situations and especially those with many traits that are oppressed in our society) are more tolerant and understanding. I thought they would be better company to keep having a greater depth of character than surrounding myself with close-minded privileged people who are ignorant of many issues owing to never having been affected by them. For example, is Martin Luther King a narcissist? How does that influence his behavior/intentions being oppressed and fighting oppression? Are narcissists who have been oppressed and appear less harmful just as dangerous to allow influence as those close-minded people who mistakenly feel threatened by equality owing to a loss of privilege? Normal appear as narcs to me when they are faced with equality. Equality feels like oppression when you’re used to privilege and they cannot see past the perceived loss and feel they must defend against the “attack”. Megan Markle is addressing inequality, I wonder what that means knowing she is a narcissist and has no empathy. Why should she care as long as she’s winning? Does she feel she can’t win without true equality and her movement is purely out of self service? Should we support her regardless of her motivation is the end result advances society?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Oppression is challenge fuel and the response depends on the school of narcissist and the nature of the dynamic between narcissist and oppressor.

      1. MommyPino says:

        HG challenge fuel has always been confusing for me. What exactly do narcissists feel when they get challenge fuel? With the narcissists that I encountered they seemed angry. If they are angry then how can it be fuel? Don’t they feel the same stress that non narcissists feel when they are angry? I caught my sister smiling and beaming when she made me cry after a barrage of surprises character assassination after our dad just died. With her expression I can understand that my tears gave her fuel. But I can’t understand how making her angry fueled her as well. Don’t narcissists feel the same stress that empaths feel when they are being attacked?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          See The 3 Interactions With The Narcissist.

  11. kel says:

    A reporter asked Trump which of the two forerunners posed a bigger threat to him, Pete Buttigieg or Sanders. Trump said, “Everybody’s a threat, I view everybody as a threat” – narcissism from the horse’s mouth. One thing good I can say about Trump being president, is that he brought awareness to narcissism as the poster board for it. I kept noticing how much he reminded me of my narc, I would even kid him about it, and then I started googling and tying it all together. True HG and narcsite introduced me to the existence of narcissism, but Trump was the first to give me a clue to it.

    1. Mercy says:

      Kel, I agree about him being a good example to bring awareness to narcissism. I’ve read a lot of articles using key words like projecting or gaslighting. He is an extreme example of narcissism but maybe it’ll help squash the image of narcissist only being someone who likes their own looks or is selfish. Hopefully those people will find this site and learn that a narcissist isn’t just the extreme version like our lessor president. People need to be aware that most are hiding behind a facade.

      1. kel says:

        Mercy, I’m hearing the word narcissism a lot these days, for its true meaning, and I think it’s because journalists and the public learned about it because of Trump too. But, you know, enough already, he served his purpose, he can leave now!

        1. Mercy says:

          Kel, did you here about the “Friday Night Massacre”. Pretty sure there’s a law protecting witnesses.

          1. kel says:

            I heard about his vindictive firings of impeachment witnesses, but hadn’t heard it was aptly named Friday night massacre,
            I like the quote in it, ‘They have learned nothing, and forgotten nothing’
            He is so crass, he makes Archie Bunker look classy.

          2. kel says:

            Schumer is going to start an investigation into Trump’s firings of impeachment witnesses!

            The president’s adviser said that the firings were meant to send a message that siding against the president is not tolerated???!

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Well so much for the crowing about putting laws in place to protect whistleblowers.

          4. Mercy says:

            Nothing surprises me anymore. I don’t think any investigation is going to change anything. It’s up to the voters at this point. You were right talking about reality TV. Have you ever watched a show just for the drama? I feel like that’s what’s happening here and he feeds off of it.

          5. kel says:

            Exactly. If the news would stop talking about him, he would likely go away and start another TV show

          6. Violetta says:

            Friday Night Massacre, aka Night of the Long Knives

      2. SMH says:

        Kel and Mercy, Ironically, or maybe not, the only time I ever seriously wounded MRN he was bothering me one day with nonsense (this was post escape). I was busy and he wouldn’t say what he wanted, so I sent him a gif of Trump in a baby bonnet with the words ‘I just want attention.’ You would have thought that I had shot him. I got my first and only massive ST and then apologized but told him the punishment did not fit the crime. Narc looking in the mirror and not liking what he sees.

        1. Violetta says:

          I’m still trying to figure out the difference between wounding and challenge fuel. I do get the impression I should avoid both, if possible; anything to refrain from provoking a Hoover, whether benign or malign.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Problem solved

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