Look Who’s Come To Dinner! Understanding the Effect of Wounding On The Lesser, The Mid-Range and the Greater Narcissist
This Logic Bulletin will assist you with carefully explained alternate scenarios to assist and increase your understanding of :
- How the empath behaves in a situation contrasting to that of the narcissist
- How Wounding and Challenge Fuel can occur in a social setting and why they occur
- What the Wounding and Challenge Fuel mean to the narcissist
- How the various schools and sub-schools of narcissist from Lower Lesser all the way through to Upper Greater Narcissist would deal with this scenario of wounding and why
- Details of the types of manipulations that the narcissists would use and why
- Who the manipulations would be used against
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HG
How would these scenarios play out in a restaurant?
More expensively, albeit similarly in terms of the narcissists behaviour.
Hello, Mommypino.
I just saw your comments on this thread that I had not seen. I’m so sorry! I am not notified and stopped looking here recently until today.
I am sure it can be frustrating for doctors to have patients who will absolutely not follow the advice and then keeps coming with symptoms and expecting the doctor to do something even though following the guidance will do it. I wonder if HG feels that way sometimes like when I ask him “why” in consultation and he doesn’t say “remember that no contact thing I mentioned, you didn’t do it and that is why.” I wonder if he thinks that but doesn’t say it. Thank you for the link of the interview. I will listen later when I can concentrate on it, but I didn’t want to wait on responding.
Thank you! Both of my parents have been wonderful models for me in different ways. Your dad sounds like a he was a good man. That’s great that you had that opportunity to get to know him! I have to admit I am struggling on understanding why your mom built that house. As a lesser, I would assume her need for a facade doesn’t matter. I wonder if she was still trying to get their love and respect. Your health and safety didn’t deserve to be sacrificed for that desire. That’s funny about your sister and gifts! I especially like how you found she was wrong. I can see you being so kind that you didn’t correct her when you discovered she was wrong.
My parents main fight revolved around money. It makes sense as both were poor as children and both took a different psychological reaction to that. The fights were constant, loud, and more disrespectful in what they said as they aged. I used to see them say “I love you” later and wonder how anyone can love a person and fight like that. My therapist believes that is where I first became confused by what love is. I have learned that most of my siblings are anti-confrontation with their spouses. When my parents are not fighting, you can see why they compliment each other’s personality.
I believe that children need to witness healthy arguing by their parents where they can see that not everyone agrees but everyone can stay calm, respectful, and loving, and that there can be a resolution worked out by the two. I know people whose parents didn’t fight in front of their children, and the children thought their parents had a perfect relationship and struggled when they fought with their spouse.
Does your husband know that he needs the last word? I will say that the fights with my ex-husband seemed to last as long as I didn’t give in; when I gave in usually all was good after that until the next fight and then things from the previous were brought up. Nothing was ever resolved. With the second narcissist, the actual fights were quick as he had no temper and would comment on something about me when I got spun up by what he was saying and doing. Nothing was ever resolved. We didn’t talk
Do you have a style when it comes to discussing matters so you won’t feel like a fight?
I agree with you about Kim. I think both of her parents were narcissists and Kayne as well. She seems to dress the way she is told and has changed her body with surgery to match a look. She wants to use her popularity to help others, not cause drama. I don’t watch the show but of what I have heard, she seems to be the one trying to bring peace when the family fights.
How do you feel now that you realize that your husband is a normal?
HG I loved this logic bulletin. It was exciting and fun to read, and I learned from it. I love the real life scenarios.
I can’t believe narcissists get offended by not being served first. It’s almost impossible for me to believe. But I believe you, HG 🙌💙
Hello, Whitney.
I responded to a comment you posted before but could not remember what article it was. I’m sorry if I missed anything!
I have purchased this but haven’t had a chance to read it yet. Hopefully it will provide some insight into what the hell went down at my house on Thanksgiving. I pay tribute to Mr. HG Tudor.
Thanksgiving was different for me this year and I will now refer to it as The Thanksgiving of my Tomorrows. The anger from everybody else more intense than in the past, but the peacekeeper in me has been quenched and the fighter in me has been ignited, though I fought back in a different way, no longer trying to make sense of the nonsensical.
As usual political ramblings went on around the dinner table, then turning into personal insults, and I stood back and watched the fucking freak show unfold before me with a greater clarity. Using my newfound knowledge of narcissism, I started picking them out amongst the relatives which numbered at least three, not counting my parents, and I stopped counting because there was nothing, I could do about them.
The noise level escalated and insults were thrown at me which I was able to deflect properly, possibly for the first time, by just smiling and ignoring them. Then I hurled a few myself, which I have been known to do, but they hit their targets and made their mark easily due to my calm straight forward approach. My phone starts vibrating as spectators in the room text me and implore me to stop, but I ignore them as well. My refusal to absorb the anger for everybody else has left them all targets as the insults bounce off me and like shrapnel fall onto seemingly innocent bystanders. (Holidays can sometimes be fun.)
The anger fills the room like smoke, and I leave as it continues behind me and emerge from it like some heroine from a movie scene. I hear and feel angry words directed to me whizzing past my ears and I think to myself “I wonder what Mr. HG Tudor is up to now?” So, I saunter across the yard to the barn that has my office; mug of wine in one hand, lit joint in the other, satisfied grin across my face, and I sit before my computer and log on to Instagram. “Yes. There he is.” I say to myself as I look at the photos he posted. My personal Jesus. My savior. Then I bow my head and I say a silent prayer; “Thank you. My God, you have released me”.
I slept very well that night, having nothing to do with the wine or pot. It was “the sleep of the just”.
Thank you, Mr. HG Tudor.
You’re welcome
Mommypino, I hope you don’t mind me posting this here as that other thread takes a long time. I did post a response to you there.
Did you get a chance to see the movie this weekend? I saw it and loved it! What an amazing man of love and patience! I’ll admit I cried during it. I wish this world had more like Mr Rogers! His empathy was so real and he figured out how to channel his inner feelings. Role model!
I know I have thought about what it would be like to date an empath. Thinking about Mr Roger’s as an example, I don’t think I could. It isn’t that I would be bored; I wouldn’t. I think I would not be able to appreciate the man he is. I wouldn’t put him on a pedestal but I wouldn’t be like how Mr Rogers’ wife was with him.
Hi Getting There,
I did see your response in the other thread. I’m so happy you moved our discussion here as it was getting really hard for me to find your responses there because it is so long and I’m only using my phone.
No I haven’t seen the Mr. Rogers’ movie. My kids all of a sudden changed their minds and decided to watch Frozen 2. And then we planned to see it this week but now only my stepson agrees to watch it with me. So I will watch it with my stepson. We are leaving to go to Portland as well next week to see some family and to ride the Daylight train 🚂. My son is a train fanatic and he has a bucket list of trains that he wants to see and ride all over the world. About 95% of it he would have to do on his own as an adult if he wants to but this one was easy for us to give him since it’s very close and we have family there.
I am honestly not sure if I would have attraction towards someone like Mr. Rogers. I have been thinking about the male empaths that I have seen in my life and there is a flavor of them that I would not be romantically attracted to. My husband is very empathic in some ways, even more empathic than me sometimes. But sometimes he almost doesn’t have empathy. I wish I can take an Empath Detector for him but I think the questions in the detector are designed to be answered by the person himself and not for the person. Basically when it comes to doing something for people or something that has to do with standing up for what he believes is right, his empathy sometimes even surmounts mine. But when it comes to being a shoulder to cry on, he almost does not have empathy. Not for me or for his kids or the people who work for him. He’s more like, “just tell me what I need to do to fix it or make it better but I don’t want to hear you go on about it.” It worked for us because I rarely need to emotional support so it’s not a big loss or problem for me. But it does make me wonder if that disqualifies him from being an empath and this makes him a normal or if he is still an empath. Also he rarely gets involved in conflicts because he disengages from the conflict right away. He would not be like me spending lots of time arguing in a blog. But when he was at the school board he always stood by his principles and never backed down. And he told me all about it and he was really sincere with what he believed was the best for the students. If there is a character in the movies that is close to my husband it would be the guy in the movie, “It’s a Wonderful Life.”
How about you, what kind of empathic men are you attracted to? What is it about Me. Rogers that makes you not want to date someone like him?
Oh oh HG don’t tell us Mr Rogers was a middle greater now 😉
No idea who Mr Rogers is.
Children’s Show on PBS. Expertly parodied by Eddie Murphy on SNL.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FL3xSctTB5c
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5-3ckX-zSHw
Btw, according to comments on YouTube, Rogers didn’t object to the SNL parodies at all: “Mister Rogers himself responded to this saying he thought it was hilarious. He also threatened to sue Burger King because they tried to use his likeness to sell their crap. He was fine with parodies of himself and his show but he didn’t like being used to sell anything.”
Violetta I heard about that too. I agree with him on that though. I support free speech and humor but I think it’s not fair to use his likeness to promote their products as if he was promoting their products. He was a vegetarian so selling Burger King stuff does not even align to his personal values. I don’t think he minded people choosing to eat meat but he had the right to object to having been used to promote something that doesn’t align with who he is.
Haha WokeAF, honestly a label means nothing. Mr. Rogers life speaks for itself. 😉
*Mr. Rogers’
Hi, Mommypino.
I understand! I’m using my phone as well and it took a long time for me to get to that page.
How great to do that train ride! I hope you and your family have a safe trip there and have fun with the train ride! I recently received information about a train ride in another state, I don’t know how I became on their list but loved the idea! I hope he can do all on his list.
I wonder if HG would allow for you to do one on your husband. I don’t know the rules of it and if it has to be of yourself. (HG?) I used to think that wanting to “fix” things is a quality predominantly of being a man. I am like that a bit, but I see that in a lot of men. Then I came to this site and am now confused on whether that is a narcissistic quality. I know quite a few who hate confrontation of any kind. They came from a childhood where there was a lot of fighting. I wonder if your husband is the same. It sounds like you and your husband balance each other in many ways. Do you find yourself willing to get into confrontations outside the blog as the couple of times you have here? Please don’t take that as a criticism. I think it is great that you take a stand or show an interest in having a discussion in a respectful way!
I fall for the ones with great facades. I don’t know if an empath man has shown interest, so I may not be their type. I have a strong personality, so I can see why I wouldn’t. I also think I push away quickly. I don’t like to hurt people and think a great deal in how I could (that OCD tendency), so I have not allowed for second dates if I have determined that I will ultimately hurt the guy in any way. Also if I have determined that my strong personality can outdo his personality in a negative way, I let him go. In the same way, I have not allowed for second dates, or end things quickly after, if the guy acts like a jerk right off or wants to control me right away. It is a balance that I consider early on. If there is a male empath who has the balance, then he would be my type.
Do one what on the husband?
HG, I am sorry I forgot you can’t see the previous comments. Would someone be able to complete an empath consult on another person? In this example, if Mommypino did it on her husband.
No, thank you for clarifying the question.
Hi Getting There,
Sorry it took me a while to answer back. My kids have been both sick for over ten days and we have been preparing for my daughter’s birthday party tomorrow. She will be three next week! 🥳
From what you have described it sounds like you would be more compatible with either a Super Empath or a Normal. Maybe a Standard Empath too but he has to have the right kind of traits that are dominant I think to not get overpowered by your strong personality. I think that a Co-D would be unattractive for you because you would feel guilty when his Co D traits start to manifest in terms of your relationship with him. But that is just my guess based on my limited understanding of the schools of empaths. I could be totally wrong. But I can totally see how a narcissist that shows a strong personality that doesn’t get overpowered by yours (because they can’t let you dominate them) but is able to show you that they are good people (facade) can attract you. I can see more of the UMR, Greaters and UL narcs attracting you because I don’t think that you would be attracted to pity plays and that could even make you guilty and cause you to disengage quickly.
I do remember that you are a Carrier Empath and so I can see you wanting to fix things. If my husband is an empath he would have a lot of Carrier, a lot of Magnet and some Savior and Geyser in him. He does seem to hate confrontation but only if he doesn’t see a productive end to it. He grew up with his alcoholic father abusing him verbally and physically and his mother was abused by his dad. He was the only one that their dad hated out of all of them and he said that he doesn’t know if his dad hated him because his mom gave him special attention or if his mom gave him special attention because she felt bad for him that his dad hated him. The brother that he followed who is about two years older than him I think is an UMR. Their oldest brother I think is a highly narcissistic Normal. The second to the oldest brother was my husband’s best friend but he already passed away before I met my husband so I never met him. But now his wife tells their kids in a depressed way that she doesn’t think that he ever loved her. My husband was bothered by it so he called her and told her that his brother/her husband loved her very much. Their youngest sibling, the only daughter is definitely a Co-D.
We do balance each other out and we both came from dysfunctional homes that we both learn from each other and try to point out to each other what we are doing wrong so we can change it. We are by no means perfect and we both annoy each other sometimes but when we argue, no matter how frustrated we get at each other, the day doesn’t end without us reconciling. If there is a silent treatment it only lasts for up a few minutes to a couple of hours the most. After that we both couldn’t stand it and will have to talk about it.
In real life I am rarely involved in confrontation. I only get in confrontation if I am confronted first. I am oftentimes very diplomatic when I inform someone of something that bothered me and if I cannot express what bothered me in an articulate way because the behavior was very passive aggressive or subtle or underhanded I just pretend that I didn’t notice it and even smile like I’m having a great time while I distract myself with other thoughts or something else to do. Distracting myself is my go to defense mechanism. When I am confronted in a mean way though I tend to not let that person dominate me and so the influence of my Lesser mom comes out. But I still rarely if ever call names. Instead I use mockery a lot and mimicking in a mocking way and shaming of their behavior. I’m not proud of it but those are the things that I do at my lowest points in terms of reacting negatively. Now that I am more educated I prefer to apply my husband’s approach which is to disengage from fruitless confrontations. Especially since my guilt and shame kicks in afterwards so it’s not really a win for me in the end.
Also , don’t ever worry about me thinking you criticize me. For some reason I feel safe with you and so I totally don’t get offended by you.
Thank you Getting There. I want to write a better and thoughtful response but I am packing for our trip and will probably not be able to post that much. I hope that your weekend will be wonderful! ❤️
I hope you have a wonderful trip with your family!
Hi Getting There,
Sorry it took me a while to answer back. My kids have been both sick for over ten days and we have been preparing for my daughter’s birthday party tomorrow. She will be three next week! 🥳
From what you have described it sounds like you would be more compatible with either a Super Empath or a Normal. Maybe a Standard Empath too but he has to have the right kind of traits that are dominant I think to not get overpowered by your strong personality. I think that a Co-D would be unattractive for you because you would feel guilty when his Co D traits start to manifest in terms of your relationship with him. But that is just my guess based on my limited understanding of the schools of empaths. I could be totally wrong. But I can totally see how a narcissist that shows a strong personality that doesn’t get overpowered by yours (because they can’t let you dominate them) but is able to show you that they are good people (facade) can attract you. I can see more of the UMR, Greaters and UL narcs attracting you because I don’t think that you would be attracted to pity plays and that could even make you guilty and cause you to disengage quickly.
I do remember that you are a Carrier Empath and so I can see you wanting to fix things. If my husband is an empath he would have a lot of Carrier, a lot of Magnet and some Savior and Geyser in him. He does seem to hate confrontation but only if he doesn’t see a productive end to it. He grew up with his alcoholic father abusing him verbally and physically and his mother was abused by his dad. He was the only one that their dad hated out of all of them and he said that he doesn’t know if his dad hated him because his mom gave him special attention or if his mom gave him special attention because she felt bad for him that his dad hated him. The brother that he followed who is about two years older than him I think is an UMR. Their oldest brother I think is a highly narcissistic Normal. The second to the oldest brother was my husband’s best friend but he already passed away before I met my husband so I never met him. But now his wife tells their kids in a depressed way that she doesn’t think that he ever loved her. My husband was bothered by it so he called her and told her that his brother/her husband loved her very much. Their youngest sibling, the only daughter is definitely a Co-D.
We do balance each other out and we both came from dysfunctional homes that we both learn from each other and try to point out to each other what we are doing wrong so we can change it. We are by no means perfect and we both annoy each other sometimes but when we argue, no matter how frustrated we get at each other, the day doesn’t end without us reconciling. If there is a silent treatment it only lasts for up a few minutes to a couple of hours the most. After that we both couldn’t stand it and will have to talk about it.
In real life I am rarely involved in confrontation. I only get in confrontation if I am confronted first. I am oftentimes very diplomatic when I inform someone of something that bothered me and if I cannot express what bothered me in an articulate way because the behavior was very passive aggressive or subtle or underhanded I just pretend that I didn’t notice it and even smile like I’m having a great time while I distract myself with other thoughts or something else to do. Distracting myself is my go to defense mechanism. When I am confronted in a mean way though I tend to not let that person dominate me and so the influence of my Lesser mom comes out. But I still rarely if ever call names. Instead I use mockery a lot and mimicking in a mocking way and shaming of their behavior. I’m not proud of it but those are the things that I do at my lowest points in terms of reacting negatively. Now that I am more educated I prefer to apply my husband’s approach which is to disengage from fruitless confrontations. Especially since my guilt and shame kicks in afterwards so it’s not really a win for me in the end.
Also , don’t ever worry about me thinking you criticize me. For some reason I feel safe with you and so I totally don’t get offended by you.
I just saw that I posted my comment twice. Sorry for the redundancy. I lost a comment that I typed earlier because of connection problems so I copied this comment and posted it twice just to be sure this time.
Welcome back, Mommypino!
How was your trip and the train ride? I like the picture of the train you are using. Happy birthday to your daughter!
How you described your relationship with your husband is really romantic! I have to admit that I used to wonder about him, but the description you have shared about him here just sounds wonderful! That’s great that you two are showing your children those wonderful ways to be in a relationship. Children see more than people realize, and showing great relationship examples with loved ones and others is a valuable lesson for them as they grow! I can understand why your husband stays away from confrontation that doesn’t have an outcome considering his family history. He seems like the type who people know that if he gets involved then there is good reason. It’s good that you love and allow love! You are an amazing woman and deserve happiness and a peaceful home! I appreciate HG’s stance on the empath consultation. It would be interesting if your husband would be willing to take it just to appease all of us in finally figuring out what kind of empath he is. LOL
You have a good memory; I am a Carrier empath. HG’s article states that a Carrier usually was a scapegoat which sounds like your husband’s case with his father. I was not a scapegoat child, so there are other ways as well. I often think if someone in specific areas of my life were to do a narc detector on me, I do wonder what it would come back as, and maybe that is the same for your husband. I also wonder about Carriers and how much of “just get it done” regardless of how we feel comes across as not feeling and not empathic. Your description of George Bailey really helped as George was doing and couldn’t see who he was helping or that he had impact. It didn’t matter to him until it did matter.
It sounds like you handle confrontation well. I think many people have special ways to handle it when it becomes too much that may revert back to our childhood somehow. I can’t imagine what it would be like to grow up with a Lesser and understand how you formed coping methods that apply in situations today. There are some items that get me hot and then I tend to yell and cuss. Some people have told me that they know not to try to talk to me during those times but wait until I calm down, which is usually not long after I started. If I find the confrontation situation boring, I do have to be careful of not rolling my eyes.
I am impressed with your analysis! I have seen that I have a type when it comes to narcissists and you seem to have nailed it. Victim narcissists and pity plays, those all lose my interest fast. When I hear the pity plays, it takes everything in my power to not tell the one talking that sometimes we have crosses to bear. It is draining. I know Carriers are supposed to be good for Victims since we just do. I wonder if some of us are not good as we are so busy doing that we don’t have anything left to do for a partner who seems to constantly need doing for. I can listen to someone talk about a situation for hours, but I find that different than pity plays.
I have spoken with men who don’t try to care about being a good man much less considered one. I met one recently and just watched in amusement at the comments he made. If I hadn’t found HG, I think I would have been disgusted and shocked. I do need someone who will not let me control but not control me either, or at least do it in a way that I can’t tell and looks like I had a choice. Somatics aren’t my type as I don’t care about a lot of what I am understanding they do like. My mind is the initial access. If after they get through my mind and I allow them into my heart, that is where I have a problem. As long as I keep them from my heart, then I have strength. I don’t know if I have met a Super Empath off of here. Unfortunately I catch myself looking for red flags so much now that I think I would assume a Super Empath is a narcissist.
I’m glad that you feel that way about me. I feel the same about you!! I hope your family has a wonderful day for the birthday tomorrow!
Hello Getting There, your description of yourself sounds very similar to my husband. He might be indeed a Carrier Empath or a Normal with a lot of Carrier traits. And I also always feel safe with him. My husband also will not like the victim mentality and can not tolerate it. My MRE half sister lived with us when she couldn’t afford to rent a place because of her poor decisions. I saw it as an opportunity to make our bonding stronger and to overcome our past differences and I was hoping that she will see me as a sister. She was usually haughty and proud of herself but at that time she was undergoing what HG has described as a reality gap. During the first couple of days she was giving me silent treatment and sly put downs until I told her directly that I cannot have her living with me and treat me like that. And she looked at my husband like waiting for my husband to defend her. I left to do an errand (I was on my way out when I directly called her out). My husband told me that while I was gone he talked to her that if it cannot work out between us then she will have to leave and after that she became nicer (fake nice) to me. She was in to total victim mode and was incredibly needy. I listened to her as best as I could to prove to her that I can be the sister that will always be there for her. It usually took up my whole days. And when I am doing chores she followed me around to talk about her problems. She did the same thing to my husband and at first my husband thought about different solutions to her problems. And he was seriously thinking of ways to fix them and sometimes ideas came to him and he would tell her but all of his ideas got shut down like there’s always something wrong with them. It eventually frustrated him and he started to avoid her. I think that she needed the attention more than the pragmatic solutions. She did some of the solutions that he came up with but he had to always follow up on her about it as if she was being spoon fed. Eventually she was able to leave our house and our relationship ended because I went NC and didn’t reply to her emails. So my husband was actually more empathic than me in terms of thinking up all of these practical solutions that helped her get back on her feet (health care, job, welfare) but he is not very empathic in terms of listening to her ‘issues’. He oftentimes rolled his eyes while she was having self pity and he made sarcastic jokes to lighten up the mood which can be interpreted by many as insensitive. One example was when his daughter was so distraught about our relationship because of our age gap saying that I’m too young and he responded, “ I know, ain’t I lucky?” in a joking way like he didn’t feel her pain at all. And he had a lady working for him who always has a problem everyday that she tells him and he got tired of it and told her that he has never seen anybody have as much problems or issues as she has. And every time she would start to tell her a problem he would cut her off and tell her that he’s only interested about her job. He is incredibly energetic and gets so much done so fast. He said he just does it and eventually it gets done despite of whatever may be a problem around it. His first wife is a victim narcissist though. I asked him why he married her and he said that he doesn’t remember and he doesn’t want to think about it. Although I think that she was beautiful and that probably played a big role why he fell for her. He also loves to provide and she is a taker so in that respect I think the addiction started. He is very narcissistic in terms of providing and she always had a criticism about what she got so he became challenged and strove to impress her. Do you mind if I ask what cadre of narcissist you got entangled with?
Thank you Getting There, the party went well yesterday. I started composing my comment to you the day before yesterday but I was doing it in between chores that I didn’t get to finish it and send it out until yesterday. My daughter had so much fun and everyone who came were very nice. The kids played happily together. It was a Frozen theme and my daughter chose to wear an Anna dress while her best friend wore an Elsa dress. I made fake snow from a mix of cornstarch, baking powder and water and put it in a round snow sled with miniature arctic animals. I also froze water with some blue water color as an ice berg for that arctic scene. They loved it, even their mom was playing with it and my husband had to joke about how I really made that arctic scene with her in my mind. That’s another thing that can make him look like a narcissist, he likes to pick on everybody in a joking way. He picks on me a lot but for some reason I never feel threatened because of the way he delivers his jokes. He also jokes in a way that invites people to pick on him especially if they are shy. My stepson is special needs and he usually struggles with being part of the conversations so my husband includes him by picking on him which then makes his son pick back on him and it’s so funny watching their back and forth because his son really gets so riled up making fun of his dad especially when we have guests.
I wanted to add, Mommypino, that as much as I don’t feel pity plays work for me, there was one time one of my narcissists made it clear that he didn’t want to include me in helping him with something and it hurt!
I hope your relatives are safe after the earthquake.
Thank you Getting There. I wasn’t aware of the earthquake but I looked it up and saw that it was in an island where I don’t have relatives in. It’s still very sad though every time something catastrophic happens to any country.
Hello, Mommypino.
That birthday party sounds amazing! You must be very creative!
I’m sorry your sister did that! That was nice of you to try and good of you to implement no contact! That’s good that your husband supported your stance and even tried to help her with suggestions! He probably had more patience because he hasn’t been dealing with her specifically as long and it sounds like she targeted you.
I wonder if he is a normal or Carrier, like you said. In some ways, we do sound similar.
I give a lot of advice when I listen and talk to others. Many times it isn’t taken. I find that I am still there listening with the same advice if they want to talk again unless the circumstances have changed. It is my belief that each person has to figure out what is best for them as long as they know that they aren’t alone and that there are options. Recently I was talking to someone going through a hard time. I listened and gave my thoughts which were not pity. His response showed me that my comment was not what he wanted and kept trying to push for pity. It didn’t work. I never got mean and he knows he can talk to me any time but I won’t be providing pity.
I do find that my way of coping with some situations is making jokes. I am a sarcastic person, but I have a tendency to then feel bad if I feel one of my comments was out of line or even perceive that it could hurt the person and then end up apologizing. It is fun when someone can give it as well as take it as long all stay within lines. When it becomes hurtful in insulting instead of whitty, it stops.
What was it about your husband that caught your heart?
My type are Elites. I thought it was Cerebral but have since learned more about Elites. I prefer the Elites who lean more to the intelligent but with Somatic versus the ones who lean more to the Somatic with the intelligent as a smaller percentage of the qualities. What attracts me more is how I watch how I think he is a good man. If a man shares a story of doing something good, that is nice but actually seeing it in play is very attractive! All of the ones I have been involved with are great in that area. Even if they are facades, in different ways they do good for others.
Hello Getting There,
I can see why the Elites would be the most attractive. My half sister was an Elite and she was very intelligent and sophisticated and very classy. With Somatics, I would think of the Kardashians as an example and my half sister never wore the kind of clothing that the Kardashians wear. She also loved reading books and she always asked questions about everything from the people she interacted with which resulted in her having so much knowledge in almost everything. But she also had a somatic side which surprised me because of the way she carried herself. I remember when she told us that she slept with my brother’s best friend / best man the night before his wedding day. My brother was just quiet and my sister in law had an awkward surprised smile 😬. I asked her if she had a big crush on him and she said no. I asked her then why did you sleep with him and she leaned on the kitchen counter with a narcissistic smirk and said, “because I can.” My brother said to me in private that his best friend is too good for her so he’s glad they didn’t end up together. Although when she lived with us her “reality gap” made her seem like a Victim narcissist and not an Elite. She was an MMR so she was prone to sabotaging herself.
I will write again later tonight about my husband. Some of the things you said about yourself makes me think that he is indeed a Normal and not an Empath.
Hi Getting There, I have to write the rest of my reply sometime tomorrow. I had an unexpected really busy day and I need to go to bed. I want to write about how we met and the things I love about him. It’s pretty similar about the things that you find attractive.
Hi, Mommypino.
I’m glad your relatives are safe!
I like how you distinguished the Somatics like the Kardashians. I saw Kim recently and all who were around her talked about how nice she is. I wonder if she is an empath being influenced. I think the difference between Elite and Victim is such a world apart and attractive level apart. It’s interesting how your sister changed based on the situation. I know it happens. In my worldly view, I would think an Elite would receive more fuel than a Victim so the narcissism would want to maintain that elite style. I hope your brother and his best friend were able to maintain their friendship after that.
Please don’t make any assumptions on your husband based on my description of me. He and I are different people and so our empathy would show differently. I have my other issue that plays a role in how I think. I am also a believer that what we learn in childhood are foundation blocks of our future selves. He grew up in an abusive home as a scapegoat child. His mother showed her love for him but he has somehow connected her feelings with the negative feelings of his father’s, instead of letting her feelings stand on their own. I grew up in a household with a lot of fighting between my parents. I believe I have either two empath parents or an empath and a normal. The one in question is my dad. If he is an empath, he is a strong Carrier. The lessons they taught and the modeling of behavior impacted me significantly and have led to the way I am with others and with myself. I have siblings and they are caring people. I actually think I am the least caring of all. Maybe your husband is an empath and just shows it through his development, or maybe he is a normal which I would be interested in hearing more about if he is. That is the group I understand the least. Whatever he is, he is good to you, your kids, and others and that is so important!
Hi Getting There,
I’m finally able to go back to our older discussions. Thank you so much for your patience. I have a lot of thoughts and questions about what you said. I was wondering if you could care to describe the fights between your empathic / normal parents if it isn’t uncomfortable for you. If it is uncomfortable I totally understand and would prefer that you don’t go beyond your comfort level because it would seriously make me feel bad. I was just wondering what other normal households look like. With me and my husband, there can be arguing and it is currently mostly about parenting. We can get very frustrated but it rarely lasts for more than one day. We usually either leave the topic and act normal again or if it was really upsetting we would talk about it before we go to bed and reach a middle ground. He is more narcissistic in terms of ‘winning’ so even in the end he would make a one last comment that is meant to put him on top and I just let it slide sometimes although sometimes I point it out to him too and eventually we both get tired of it and move on. None of us gets fueled by it so we both move on much quicker than narcissists do. But I would admit that sometimes our kids see it and they both tell us to be nice to each other and to calm down. And we both listen to them too. How did you and your siblings feel when you see them fight? Was is the same as ours?
I forgot to tell you that I think that your father is a very good man and he seemed to have a huge positive impact on the person that you have become. It is wonderful to know that you became an empath not because you were abused but because you saw good examples from your parents as you were growing up. My dad was the same, he was not abused by his parents as a kid. Both of his parents were very empathic and that is why he was hurt so badly by the cold treatment that he got from his marriage.
Hello Getting There,
I believe that my husband is indeed a Normal. I think that key that made ve believe so was the interview of HG that I listened to last week (I was listening to a narcissist while I was planting narcissus bulbs, how perfect was that?). You can listen to it here:
https://narcsite.com/2019/12/18/hg-interview-the-words-over-ice-show/
It was really informative and he said that Normals also have empathy in spades but the radius of their empathy is smaller than empaths. So their empathy is directed towards a smaller number of people and these are people that are closer to them. Unlike empaths whose empathy can go towards even strangers. For example, in my life I have happily volunteered for charity organizations while my husband never has. Unless we can count him going to New Zealand as a Mormon missionary when he was 16 yrs old as charitable work. He is more empathic than most normals though because he is a very empathic doctor to his patients. Most of his patients love him, except he gets irritated when they don’t listen to him or don’t follow his instructions. He actually has told some ‘bad’ patients to look for another doctor because they are not worth his time. He has helped his siblings and he is a very helpful husband and devoted dad. But he would not devote his time for any charity work except unless you can count running and working for the school board as charity although he got paid for it and he got to have some control over his daughters’ education at that time. He left the school board as soon as his youngest daughter graduated even though he is so popular here he could easily win again if he ever runs again. There were times that he did some sweet things for people that even though were not his friends, he had known for a very long time like an old lady that goes to the same church for over a decade and has always been nice to everyone, he surprised her with a sewing machine because hers got broken. But it is rare for him to do although it makes him so happy when he does stuff like that. But majority of his empathy goes towards us his family which I am thankful for. So I think that he is a highly empathic and highly narcissistic normal.
I have more to write…
Hi Gettinf There, Also about the Elite vs the Victim, that is a very interesting point you said about the Elite getting more fuel than the Victim. My sister (Elite) and my mom (Victim) did get their fuel and their fuel matrixes in different ways and my sister being more attractive, intelligent, sophisticated etc. had an easier time and people genuinely admired her. My mom had to be a martyr and an overwhelming angel. For example, she built a house for my grandma and uncle with the money that my dad gave her that was supposed to be for us and yet she never built a house for us. There were even times that we had to rent in really bad or squatter areas because she gave my dad’s financial support for us to my grandma and uncles and aunts. They didn’t realize that we were struggling financially because she acted like a big fish in front of them and we lived in Manila and was just visiting the province where they live and they didn’t know where we live. There were times that they found out and it would puzzle them and I remember them asking my mom and she said that she doesn’t want to buy a house because we will move to the US someday anyway. My sister gave lots of gifts but not to the extent where she had to sacrifice her own lifestyle. She would have some interesting trivia about the gifts that she gave which often highlighted how cultured or knowledgeable she was or the place that she got it from her travels. She was entertaining and there’s always something new that I learn from her although I have also caught her so many times with plenty of bull shit and pretending to know something that she didn’t. Thanks to the technology of being able to google and fact check instantly. Like you I find the differences in the cadres of narcissists fascinating and thank you for bringing it up because it made me think about it more.
I also want to add about Kim Kardashian, I used to watch their show while I did my elliptical exercise and I never noticed anything malignant about her. She is very grandiose and entitled and materialistic but I haven’t seen her be impolite or mean spirited or contemptuous to people. So I do wonder too that even though she is often called a narcissist, that maybe she is just a highly narcissistic normal or empath. I know that she helped someone get out of jail and she seemed to have devoted a lot of her personal time on that and it seemed to have made her happy. Paris Hilton which was Kim Kardashian’s best friend I think is definitely a narcissist. I think that Kanye West is a narcissist but I could be wrong. I think that I have seen his mean streak and contemptuous behavior. I think that him being religious now is only for fuel and to give a middle finger to the secular people in Hollywood who abandoned him. But that is just my guess. So maybe Kim Kardashian may even be an empath entangled with a narcissist.
Hi, Mommypino.
I was thinking this morning that I should have provided details about my dad as maybe he and your husband are more alike. Since understanding the empath types and which one I am, I believed my dad to be a Carrier empath. It is only been in the past couple of weeks where I have been trying to figure out how two empaths can fight like they did. I realized that it is possible for empaths to have the same trigger discussion and then it adds on for years to then look like one isn’t an empath. I have heard some things in those fights that make me wonder about the empath part, though. Also there are other things so now I wonder if he is normal or an empath.
My dad was a scapegoat child. He is intelligent, quiet, and sarcastic. He knowingly killed a good career by standing up for a gentleman he thought the management was treating wrong, and they were wrong. He never talked about it but I found out when I was an adult by my mom. A family friend’s career was boosted due to taking the opposite side of my dad, and my dad has never said an unkind word about that person to or around me. My dad will give advice but, like your husband, saw it wasn’t taken. Now he will listen but won’t offer anything unless it is agreed upon for him to give. No matter how much push back from his sibling and impact it had to him, my dad fought to respect his elderly parent’s wishes through her older years.
Do you think they are more alike?
Hi Getting There, your description of my dad sounds very much like my husband. My husband also doesn’t talk badly about people very much, only when I really ask him so he would answer me why he doesn’t like that person or why he is avoiding that person but his answers are not in an angry or emotional manner but more of a matter of fact manner. That is why I was thinking that he is a Normal and not an Empath because I was thinking that Empaths are sensitive and my husband is not sensitive. I have seen him receive some covert put downs and they just roll off of him and he doesn’t even bring them up when we are alone together like he has completely forgotten about them. It is one of the things that I have often struggled with and he advised me to look at where the put down or criticism is coming from and if it’s coming from a person who adds little to nothing into my life then it doesn’t have any weight or value so just ignore and don’t think about it. He has survived his life by being a doer and so that probably caused him to be a Carrier. Even as a child, when his mom was working as a custodian in his elementary school he would help her clean the classrooms after his class so that she can go home earlier. He was the only kid who did that and his brother that’s a couple of years older than him accuse him of sucking up to their mom although it’s just their bantering, they have a very good relationship. He worked to support himself through school. When his first wife divorced him he raised his kids as a single and working dad although he allowed them to spend time with their mom. So his whole life, the Carrier was/is a huge part. He always offers to help me in everything without being an overwhelming angel. Like for example he would ask me if I need him to pick up our son so that I don’t have to wake our daughter up from her nap for me to pick up our son. He helps me in a way that I feel like we are a team, unlike my matrinarc who was an overwhelming angel to me who made me feel like I was an incapable infant in her eyes. And just like your dad, he also stands by what he believes is right even if he has to pay a price for it and even if he was the last person making that stand.
I’m sorry for not being able to reply to you sooner on your older comments. Our neighbor gave me three pots of daffodil and some tulip bulbs and I had to plant them as soon as possible because some of them already have fungus or mold and winter is coming pretty soon. Her family is going on a Christmas vacation next week so she wouldn’t be able to plant them anymore and some of them already went bad and more are starting to go bad so she just gave them all to me. I would be so happy if at least 50% of them will live and show up next Spring.
Hello, Mommypino.
You didn’t take long in responding. You are living your life! It’s great that you are doing wonderful things outside the blog and then coming and commenting on what you want/can when you want/can. I hope that you never feel obligated or stressed to have to respond to anything I write.
The garden sounds like it will be beautiful! How exciting to see what shows up in spring! I have to admit that I have no idea what you meant about the bulbs as I don’t garden but it sounds like they are in good hands with you.
Your husband does sound like my dad a bit. Those are great qualities to be willing to take a stand for what one believes no matter the cost, to consider all the information before letting it even impact you, and to help! Before I read your comment, I had thought only narcissists are sensitive. My goodness, sensitive!!!! When I read your comment about empaths being sensitive, I had to think about that as I would not have thought that. You have a good point, though. I wonder how strong sensitivity is in empaths. Do you think we are as sensitive as narcissists?
I have a couple of couple friends whose marriages are fun to watch. They have their issues and frustrations with each other, as all marriages. These marriages though have such a similar dynamic in that they banter with each other in a sarcastic way that some would take offense to in what is said, but they laugh and move on to the next one. I know one of the wives is an empath but I wonder now if the husbands and the other wife are normals. It sounds like you and your husband can also enjoy the time together and not walk on egg shells. That sounds ideal if so!
When you get a chance, I do look forward to reading about you and your husband meeting.
Based on this discussion, if the qualities you have described are that of a normal, I want to say forget empaths or narcissists, where do I find a single normal man in the right age who will be willing to be a good step father?
I forgot, Mommypino, to say that George Bailey was such a good man! What a great compliment to your husband!
Violetta, thank you for sharing that! It was funny! Some of the old SNL skits are just timeless. I like that Mr. Roger’s didn’t take offense to it.
GT, sorry to butt into your conversation. I was wondering how that movie was. I saw Knives Out over the weekend instead. I was only planning to watch Mr Rogers because of Tom Hanks. With your recommendation, I’m looking forward to seeing it now though. I grew up watching Mr Rogers although I’ll admit, it was only because nothing else was on. I liked Sesame Street and Electric Company better in the afternoons. In the mornings, there was nothing like Captain Kangaroo!
Agree with you on every point. Watched Mr. Rogers if I was home with flu, but liked the others better.
Capt. Kangaroo–now THERE’S an empath I could love!
Hi, MB! I’m glad you commented on this!
I saw “Knives Out” also. It was good. I was distracted by the attempted southern accent, though.
Mr Roger’s movie was so good! It really makes you think in a good way but also just enjoy the type of man he was and the impact he had on others. I did cry. Tom Hanks did awesome! I read somewhere that Mr Roger’s wife saw the movie and was impressed with hand movement he did that was similar.
I used to watch Mr Roger’s and Sesame Street, but missed out on Captain Kangaroo.
GT, I enjoyed Knives Out. Daniel Craig doing a southern accent was quite entertaining! Without him, it would not have been as good.
LOL, I didn’t like his accent. I do agree that he made the movie.
MB, if you go to the Mr. Roger’s movie, I hope you will share what you think of it, please.
I shall do so Getting There. If I cry, I’m blaming you! Haha. Seriously, if I start crying, there’s no telling when I will stop. I rarely cry and when something starts the tears, the dam breaks and the river flows. It’s very therapeutic, but I wish I could do it smaller increments throughout the year!
LOL MB.
I’m curious. Are there specific things that cause you to cry or can it be anything but timing may impact the dam to break?
GT, It’s usually a movie that starts it. Probably because that’s a “safe” reason to show emotion. I stuff all my negative emotions. I think the dam has to break at least once or twice a year to keep my stuffing place from filling up. Note: this would never happen in the presence of another person. I’m embarrassed by it.
I understand your feelings, MB! That’s great that you don’t let it build up!! The movie has sad points but they are mixed with goodness.
When I cry, I am very quiet about it, won’t let it last long, and don’t like others to see. I don’t cry often and will put on a specific movie if I need the therapy of tears. I agree that movie theaters are great for tears! There was one time it didn’t work for me, though. I was on a date to see “Saving Private Ryan” and I noticed that the guy was watching my reaction to the movie, so I made sure to show no emotion although it was a scene that would have led to tears.
It’s interesting how crying is natural and therapeutic but there is a negative connotation with it.
MB, I had a moment of ever presence in regards to you! I saw an article in Daily Mail where some scientists want to ban glitter to help ocean life. I immediately thought of you.
GT, glitter is very good for EverPresence indeed. Pfft! Help ocean life?!? Have they ever heard of mermaids? What the heck are they supposed to do, huh?
Seriously though, it would hurt, but I’d give up my glitter to save the gay blind whales. I’m not so sure if the mermaids would be as generous!
LOL MB! How great of you to consider the feelings of all who will be impacted to include the poor mermaids. They are so often forgotten!
That’s why a lot of actors like emotional scenes. They can get rid of THEIR bottled-up emotions in a socially acceptable way. “No, I’m not crying: Emily Webb is crying, see?”
I can understand that. I’m impressed with the actors who can actually cry instead of the fake tears look.
Oh dear God. Almighty. I Thought You Saved Me From Another Horrible Thanksgiving Day Dinner Gone. Down. Here With All My Knowledge , All My Teaching & Helping Others On This Subject. Did I F- – – – – Take My Own Knowledge. And Use It On This Beautiful God Given Day. ? ( NO ) !!! You Would Think 18 Years With Parents That Destroyed Every Holiday for. TheirThree Children , You Would Think 45 Years With My CEREBRAL NARCISSIST Husband Who Couldn’t Care Less About My FEELINGS On This Day.Or Any Holiday Would Teach Me (NO)!!!! Or Even My LESSER MALE NARC FRIEND Going No Contact With ( NO)!!! I Let My Brother. & His Alcoholic Druggie Bi Polor Girlfriend Force Their selfies Into My Quite Calm Loving Clean Neat Sanctuary. Surrounded By Trees, Birds, Animal’s Music Artwork Crystal Chandeliers . They Brought The Raw Bird & Other ( Crap ) They Fought All Morning Afternoon And Night.Found The Beer, Scotch, Cognac Champagne .Beat Each other Up ( He is 56 She is 62 ) DESTROYED My. Lovely Bathroom , SLAMMED TOILET SEAT Down So Much It Broke Pissed On The Floor , Plugged Up The Sink. KNOCKED Out My Electric Power. She Dropped The Half Cooked Turkey On The Kitchen Floor , Grease Everywhere , Walls, Cabinets Stove, Countertops. My ANIMALS Hiding All Day She Got Into My Expensive French Perfumes SPRAYED Every room . I Never Smoked ,THEY BOTH smoked A Cigarette Every Single 10 Min. One Ran Out The BackDoor One Out FRONT Door Every 10 Min. I was so Afraid For My ANIMALS Getting Out .I KEPT MY COOL FROM 10AM TO 6PM. . I PUT HER OUT AND Mybe Speak To Him . H. G. I Saw It , The Smirk. Then The STARE. 😈 I GOT VERT UPSET I SAID YOU WILL GO HOME WITH HER PUT YOUR FEET UP IT WILL TAKE DAYS TO PUT MY HOME BACK TOGETHER AGAIN. ANDTHEN YOU WILL SAY TO HER ” WE REALLY DIDA GOOD JOB ON HER THIS TIME DIDN’T WE?? HA HA HA. 💯 H.G. I THOUGHT I WAS READY FOR ANYTHING. BUT I DIDN’T SEE THIS COMING Baby brother Said SHARON you finally know What I AM ❗❗❗
Get a security system installed to keep your family out, and spend your next Thanksgiving volunteering at a soup kitchen. In addition to doing good, you’ll meet a higher class of people.
Dear Smarinucci1970,
How absolutely dreadfully aweful, I literally cringed reading this
Just because it’s “family”, there is no need to be disrespectful and violate your domain ….. helping themselves to your alcohol n French perfume, breaking things …. how dare they ( we had smokers designated outside …but they still stink when they come in) yuk
Seriously, to me this is a deal breaker ….respect me and my property whilst you’re in MY home or get out ….. family or not
THANKFULLY haha …..we do not celebrate thanksgiving
Mr Bubbles and I eliminated all, bar our adult children, for Christmas
…. with the exception of our sons girlfriend because she’s a sweety and we all luv her
We made a pact decision years ago not to have any of our celebrations ruined with undesirable behaviour from the rellies
Mr Bubbles and I go to my mum’s to have a small Xmas lunch a few days before, exchange gifts and were all happy …..we had her over for two years in a row and we all hated it …..never again ….she’s much happier being with her cats
No joke, she critisized n talked non stop all thru the carols on tv and …..and naturally EVERYTHING centered around her
This is when boundaries and rules are set my lovely
Respect yourself first and your beautiful fur babies, it’s a bit like how you treat a turkey…… stuff em 🦃
May Christmas work in your favour this time precious
My very Best wishes to you
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Ps Mr Bubbles n I went to a party one time where there were so many who kept leaving the table for a smoko, we were the only two left at the dinner table … we left
We now find, if anything doesn’t feel right or the occasion takes a turn, we make excuses to exit or send them home
I’m so excited to read this 😁 💙☕ the UMR Somatic said “me and you react so differently to being insulted”.
Because a lady I’m dealing with in business insulted us both by saying “are you brand new to business?”. She’s feisty and we weren’t doing what she wanted. I don’t care and I love her. He hates her with long lasting fury that extends to me as well.
I didn’t notice most of the narcissists’ devaluing comments and insinuations because I don’t care if I’m incompetent, lazy, stupid, chaotic, disorganised, etc. I only care how I treat people, make them feel, love my family, etc.
Oh wow! This made me cry. Yes, boo hoo. Why? Because it so perfectly described dinners with the bronarc. And if I had not gone no contact based on what I have learned on this site, I would have been dining with the bronarc for Thanksgiving, right now, watching yet another sickening spectacle of control and devaluation.
So maybe tears of joy that I finally understand what he does and why. And so very Thankful I am not there this time.
A very Happy Thanksgiving from that perspective!
Happy Thanksgiving y’all!!
Grateful for the Tudorites and our illustrious leader.
Big Holiday Hoover here an hr ago.
Also one of my favorite movies is on, with a classic Narc in it, so put it on the list HG
“It’s Complicated “
Alec Baldwin is the Narc who left his wife (Meryl Streep) for a younger woman. The movie has Alec Baldwin lying, cheating, triangulating X 3, entitled, arrogant, jealous, hoovers and stalks his ex
It’s a comedy, though. A Narky comedy.
Best movie ever
Thanks cogra! Happy Thanksgiving to you too! Sounds like a funny movie. Will put that in my bucket list.
Cogra002
I did happen to catch that movie and enjoyed it as well. Glad you’re enjoying a quiet holiday. I know of those holidays you remember, and I’m glad they’re in the rear view as well.
Sounds like a good one HG! A must read for all I’m sure. And it gets K’s seal of approval too!
Alexissmith2016
Ha ha ha…anything HG does gets my seal of approval, not that he needs it from me! Ha ha ha…he is an army of one after all.
Ooooooh this goes on the list ! Can’t afford it atm but will catch up as soon as I can !! Excited
Can I offer this to you WokeAF?
I am more than words can express grateful for your contributions on “the thing” that kept us all busy last week and this week 🙂
You sure AF CAN!! I’ll pay it forward.
Thank you so much!!! 🙏🤙🏻
😘
I have just finished reading the Wounding Bulletin. O. M. G. You have to read this! It is too juicy to miss!!!!
I swear I have witnessed some of the behaviours described here myself. 100% accurate.
P.S. Happy Thanksgiving to all the readers living in the US!
Happy Thanksgiving HG and Tudorites. This is the best place to be on not a great day for some of us.
Fantastic examples of the HT, HEC and Hoover by Proxy being used.
I have seen LMRNs come to a party with a cheap bottle of wine and take the more expensive bottles when they left and I attended a party where I witnessed a female lesser, who sat across form me, break a wine glass and then tried to get money for damages (nonexistent) from the venue.
Thank you K and fast reading!
My pleasure HG!
Ha ha ha….life on the street was fast and so is my reading.
K, You reminded me of an excellent wine theft story by a musician Narc.
Principal clarinetist of a large orchestra (I’m also a professional clarinetist) was an orchestra rep at a large fundraiser. He stole a crate of the expensive champagne with the orchestra’s logo embossed and put in in his car. They were gifts for the huge donors. He later wooed a Female target with The expensive champagne, in the embossed bottles. She happened to be the police chiefs daughter, and days later she had one bottle out when Daddy came over!! 😂😂👍👍
(Great clarinetist though🎼🎵)
cogra002
Ha ha ha…they do the craziest things, from our POV, and now we know why and it isn’t so crazy anymore; it all makes perfect sense.
Isn’t that the funniest story! Later he and I wound up on the same audition for another orchestra when he was trying to get another job!! 😂😂😂
cogra002
Ha ha ha…narcissistic shenanigans can be quite hilarious. Did he get the job?
Don’t ever plan on seeing him again or being in a social setting but knowledge is power.
Yes it is and remember, other narcissists will appear at such gatherings.
oh look who is back !
are you tickety boo or not so pucker ?
I am tickety boo effective as well you know!
i’m verry happy to hear(read) that !
HG, I had an Upper Lesser appear at a Thanksgiving dinner yrs ago. He was husband to my mom’s friend. I haven’t talked about it b/c the thought exhausts me. I was drunk though, and I reacted in challenge fuel, then I went to the bathroom and threw up. This was when I was just learning your site.
Happy holiday Bibi!
Happy Happy Lorelei!
Welcome back, HG! We’ve missed you!
Thank you MB, guess it has been quiet around here in my absence.
The conversations have kept going due to your generosity in moderating comments through. You’ve been the fly on the wall, but I’ve certainly missed you actively commenting.
Thank you MB. The Boss is back.
“The Boss is back.”
Deo gratias. Or In nomine diaboli, whichever you think is most operational here.
HG doesn’t believe in either.
OMG, the Macy’s parade is featuring Celine Dion.
Still don’t believe in Hell, HG?
Very good. Why do you think I left NYC.
HG
Well……let’s just say it’s certainly not the same without you here, but we appreciate your efforts to keep the…ahem…”learning” in play.
Thank you NA. Shows also why you all need me.
V–
What do you mean Macy’s Day bullshit. There is supposed to be a major storm, goddammit. Denver airport is closed. Yet I am far from that shit in the American Southwest. The Mexican-Americans who live near me don’t really celebrate Thanksgiving. They’re like, meh–let’s go have Chinese.
I’ll be breaking bread with at least three in attendance this evening. Thanksgiving is a time of putting my HGTU education to the test.
Very much the case MB, it is social occasions where our kind will invariably need to assert control, so being aware of an example of how this can occur, why and what the likely response from the narcissist is, is of considerable use.
You have given me the tools, HG. The logic bulletin was helpful in describing the nuances of the various N’s. Instead of being confused by their behavior, I’ll be using my knowledge to ascertain where they fit in terms of school and cadre. Learning with a side of turkey!
I wish I had this years ago. Holiday gatherings and dinners are one of the most toxic things you can do with narcissists. I used to dread them every year.
MommyPino, I was thinking that this morning. My Narc father made sure holidays were traumatic, and if he was drinking, then even worse.
I’m so grateful for a quiet holiday, so so grateful; And glad you mentioned it.
I’m glad that you are having a quiet holiday cogra002. Our family is too. Such a huge difference to not have people over who are not interested in getting along and are only interested in having their way. Stress from narcissists coming over for the holidays start even before the event and continues during and even after the event. It would definitely be great to be armed with knowledge and a good plan that we can execute.
Thanksgiving report: two of the three were well-behaved. Of course I’m a pourer of positive fuel. The LL (whom I give wide berth) was doing pretty well until he got about 10 beers in. It was around that time he asked if I was wearing any panties under my dress! My husband would have clobbered him, but he knows I would be angry about it. (He knows I like to handle things myself.) I ignored the question and went into the other room. He didn’t speak to me anymore until I was leaving. He pointed at my shoes, laughed, and asked, “how long did the doctor say you have to wear those?” Entertained me. Narcs really are very simple creatures once you learn all their “secrets”.
Kim e
Great resolve Kim. I like this confidence.
The people in the picture are wearing masks but I swear that the lady all the way on the right really resembles my Nmother: same hair colour, hair cut, the wrinkly hands with the wedding ring, the black jumper (she would often wear black) and the big necklace. It’s scary.
How apt. Happy Thanksgiving to all the American peeps!
Happy Thanksgiving, MB and to all!
Hi Getting There!! I’m so glad that you commented here! I don’t think my reply to you went through but I just want to say that I got your Happy Thanksgiving and I wish you the same. May your family have a very wonderful Thanksgiving.
And Happy Thanksgiving to you MB and all the people here celebrating it today as well.
Hi, Mommypino!
Happy Thanksgiving! I’m glad you found the other one as well!
Thank you! I am very thankful today! Dieting will need to wait a few more days, but it is worth it. LOL
I hope you and family are having a great day! I’m thankful that you are back and for all else here!
Thank you Mommypino!
NOT TG here in 🇨🇦 but this thread reminded me of how useful these learnins would have been back in the day (20 years ago) at the in-laws house on holidays especially at Xmas…
Me and MIL and my baby girl would eat candy and treats and watch xmas movies
While the Dad, and three brothers (all 3 of them lessers. ) got drunk in the basement and inevitability ended up fighting.
One special year the most violent lesser train wreck brother threatened to burn my eyes out with his cig and toss me out in the snow.
Ah, memories…
The dad and all three brothers were lessers actually. Quite the scene.
Woke
You got CANDY??!!!
😱 WokeAF I’m so happy you’re not dealing with that anymore. That is so crazy. I only dealt with one Lesser in my life and that was my mom and she was actually not that bad compared to what I have been reading other Lessers do. Holidays with her have been peaceful because we just slept through it. She made noodles though during New Year and birthdays because her superstition says the long noodles will give us long life. But no birthday gift nor Christmas gift exchanges. And most absolutely no cards ever. It was my holidays with MR that were stressful. Too much power play and unfortunately I hate being controlled or intimidated so it does escalate. Although on the only Christmas dinner that I got to share with my half siblings and my wonderful and kind sister in law, the big fight didn’t involve me at all and I was just an unfortunate audience to the my sister and sister in law screaming and my normal brother closing the door at my MR sister telling her to leave them alone. It was very sad and stressful. And it all happened because my Mr sister surprised us all by putting treats in our socks and hanging them in the fireplace mantel early in the morning and she was offended that we didn’t get excited enough even though we were excited and said thank you but she said we went straight to have breakfast instead of looking at the treats that she had put in our socks.
It’s funny , I’d never been witness to narcissist xmas until the kids dad, and I was thoroughly shaken the first year (especially about being threatened to have my eyes burned out with a cigarette) but in subsequent years , it became more normal as I was by then out of my bronze period and had accepted that it was MY family who wasn’t normal (according to the ex, of course)
And yeah I got candy! Once the tools had disappeared to the basement it was quite decent actually! Lol
I’m sorry to those still experiencing Narcmas. It really is a special kind of holiday cheer isn’t it
They really are special, memorable and one of a kind WokeAF.