To Control is To Cope

 

TO-CONTROL-IS-TO-COPE-NARCISSISM-AND-ITS-CREATION

To deal with and to address the vagaries of life, human beings have developed coping mechanisms. These coping mechanisms vary in terms of the extent of their use, their impact on the user, the impact on others and the frequency of their deployment. Some coping mechanisms are regarded as ‘healthy’ and others as ‘unhealthy’ and some may be a hybrid of the two, dependent on the extent and duration of usage.

Distancing is a coping mechanism. You may distance yourself from a situation and people, but prolonged and extensive distancing may lead to isolation with the associated problems which such isolation can bring. Short-term distancing can allow recovery, re-charging and avoidance of an ongoing harmful situation. Longer-term distancing which is targeted on one or more chief proponents of harm can lead to near complete removal from toxic and harmful influences. No contact of course is a coping mechanism which incorporates distancing as a central tenet of it and is the most effective coping mechanism to apply with regard to your recovery from ensnarement with our kind.

Crying is another coping mechanism. The release of tension, held-grief, feelings of misery often evaporate as a consequence of somebody crying. You may be told ‘have a good cry, you will feel better’ and indeed many people have testified to the beneficial impact of doing so and thus crying achieves release and often acts as a signal to invite comfort from others. It is a coping mechanism deployed by people to deal with a stressful, worrying or hurtful situation.

Self-harming is a further form of coping. The distraction caused by the painful response of cutting (cutting being just one form of self-harming) enables an individual to relieve the pain of certain other feelings, it achieves a release, a distraction and also enables that individual to exert control in circumstances where they feel unable to exert control (or to the extent that would make them feel comfortable). Self-harming whilst a coping mechanism is regarded as a negative form of a coping mechanism.

Expression of feelings. Being able to ‘talk it out’ and ‘air your feelings’ is a coping mechanism also. The ability to talk to someone else who will just listen, even if they offer nothing in response or even just to talk to yourself about how you are feeling (be it generally or in relation to something specific) enables people to experience a sense of release, a lightening of a particular load and it often brings clarity in terms of understanding themselves and finding a way forward.

There are many coping mechanisms that humans deploy – some are conscious and others occur unconsciously.

Narcissism is one such coping mechanism and it is a powerful and invariably hugely effective, although its effectiveness does depend on the school of the narcissist and which particular outcome one is having regard to. The outcome of our narcissism is something that I shall address in a separate article.

Narcissism must maintain the construct (the false self) and imprison the creature (the true self).  Collectively this is the Self-Defence of the Narcissist. This Self-Defence is achieved through the The Prime Aims(fuel, character traits and residual benefits).

Central to this Self-Defence and the achievement of The Prime Aims is control. The narcissist must at all times have control of his or her environment and the people within that environment which of course includes you. Whether you are a stranger, an acquaintance, a friend, a colleague, a relative or a romantic partner. Whether you are a neighbour, a date, sister or brother, that man from the corner store or fiancée – you come within the fuel matrix of the narcissist and you have to be subjected to the control of the narcissist.

This control has to be exerted second by second of each and every day. Every passing moment must be owned and governed by the narcissist. We must exert control all around us, this has to be complete and total as if the very clouds were tethered by us. Why is that?

Because once upon a time the narcissist did not have control.

That lack of control meant the narcissist felt powerless, weak, vulnerable and exposed.

The combination of a genetic predisposition and the imposition of this lack of control created narcissism as the coping mechanism. These two ingredients combined and gave ‘birth’ to narcissism as a means of coping with the world, with the lack of control that the world causes for individuals. Many people have no issue with this lack of control, others have alternative coping mechanisms and then there is us – the narcissists. Around one in six of the human population of this planet became narcissists in order to cope with this loss of control.

Narcissism allows the imposition of control through manipulation. The imposition of control allows us to achieve the Prime Aims. The achievement of the Prime Aims allows our Self-Defence and thus we survive and we thrive.

Narcissism is a coping mechanism.

People believe that abuse is theingredient in the formation of a narcissist. It is an ingredient, yes, but there are two ingredients in the formation of our kind. The first ingredient is the genetic predisposition, if you will this is the fertile soil which provides the basis for the narcissism to grow and flourish. The second ingredient is the lack of control (of which abuse is part of that lack of control) and this is the ‘seed’ which is placed in the fertile soil of the genetic predisposition and thus narcissism ‘grows’ as the coping mechanism. For some, the soil is there but no seed ever arrives and thus no narcissist. For others, there is no soil but there is the seed, but again with one essential ingredient missing, there can be no narcissism.

Genetic predisposition plus lack of control (at a formative stage of life) equals narcissist.

What does this lack of control (at a formative stage of life – i.e. childhood) look like?

  • Abuse. Whether it is physical, emotional, sexual or psychological, any form of abuse towards us amounts to a lack of control. We could not defend ourselves against the abuse and therefore this is a lack of control, over ourselves and over those who meted out abusive harm towards us. The abuse is an act of commission – we were beaten, molested sexually, told we were useless, insulted etc.
  • Isolated. Whether this was being locked in a cupboard under the stairs, prevented from playing with other children, kept apart from other family members, not allowed to participate in group activities of any nature, given silent treatments and treated as if we did not exist, isolating and ostracising us in some form again constituted a lack of control. We were not able to control our own interactions, someone else did this for us and to our detriment. We were controlled by another and thus lacked control.
  • Neglect. Whilst there may not have been abusive acts of commission , there are abusive acts of omission. Therefore we were not given a safe environment, we were not taught effectively (be it about ‘facts’, relationships, behaviour, responsibility), we were not emotionally supported, we were not fed, clothed or protected, we were not shielded from an abuser of commission and/or we could roam where we wanted. Once again we were denied control over ourselves because we were not provided with the assets, resources and tools to achieve effective control over our lives and this neglect (lack of control) exposed us to hurt, pain, disease, injury, loneliness and/or acts of abuse through commission.
  • The Golden Child. Everything we did was lauded and praised. It was invariably held up as a glowing and shining example of brilliance, even when it was not or the praise was excessive for a valid achievement. This meant we lacked control in the sense of earningachievements in a valid fashion. We had greatness thrust upon us without being ready for it, without having earned it and without appreciating it. Everything came to us too easily and this also amounted to a lack of control. We had no control over the outcome from our endeavours, we felt no compulsion to achieve and apply endeavour because whatever we did (bad, mediocre or good) was met with accolade, praise and the lavishing of ‘how brilliant’. We were denied the ability to control our own destiny.
  • Shifting Sands. Where we experienced Shifting Sands we had a lack of control because the environment around us at that formative stage lacked constancy. One day the sun shone and the next day, even though everything else appeared to stay the same to us, there was a thunderstorm. On Monday our painting was declared to be ‘Rembrandt in the making’ (a la Golden Child) and by Friday our painting ‘was the work of a moron wielding a potato for a paintbrush’. The application of black and white thinking by the aggressor created an uncertain environment, one of push and pull, idealisation and devaluation and we had no control whatsoever on which version was going to appear to us. There was a lack of control in our lives through uncertainty, unpredictability and those shifting sands.
  • B Graders. ‘It’s good but not good enough.’ ‘You can do far better.’ ‘You are not trying hard enough.’ ‘You are letting yourself down but moreover you are letting me down.’ These phrases and those similar to it encapsulate the loss of control felt by those who are ‘The B Graders’. Each time the hill was climbed and the summit anticipated, another hill suddenly appeared. The effort was okay, decent enough, acceptable but never that which met with approval. Keep going, learn more, be faster, swim stronger, climb higher, shine brighter. There was no control because we were never allowed a moment to settle, to cherish that which had been achieved and to reflect. We could not establish our own parameters of achievement and satisfaction but instead we were always beholden to the standards of another which ultimate proved to be unobtainable standards and thus we had no control.
  • The Facsimile. We were shaped to be precisely like the aggressor. Sometimes this was entirely at the behest of the aggressor and sometimes we saw how this individual behaved and decided ‘I want that power also’ (usually unconsciously but sometimes, such as was the case for me – consciously). Whilst you may think a conscious decision to copy the aggressor and thus seize power was a form of control, it was not – this was actually a product of the already establishing narcissism and thus a symptom rather than a cause. Where the aggressor caused us to be moulded just like them – forming our opinions, our views, our behaviours, our likes and dislikes, what we wore, what we ate, where we went, what we did and in some instances alongside this there was an unconscious decision to mimic and copy those behaviours and characteristics, we were once again denied control.

Thus, whether we came from an impoverished background, a gilded background, a seemingly run-of-the-mill background, any of those environments had the potential to cause a lack of control in our lives. Take this lack of control and add it to the genetic predisposition and thus our coping mechanism of narcissism was given birth to.

Narcissism became our way of coping with the world.

Narcissism allowed us to exert control.

A lack of control equates to a lack of power.

A lack of control equates to  being vulnerable.

A lack of control equates to being weak.

A lack of control equates to being worthless, meaningless and unimportant.

When we lack control, we start to fade and will no longer exist.

A lack of control now returns us to the lack of control then.

This must never happen for too long and thus we were formed from this lack of control adding to our genetic predisposition and in order to survive and thrive we must never, ever lack control for if this persists, well, then, it ends.

We must have absolute control. And that means absolute control over you, him, her, them but most of all YOU.

212 thoughts on “To Control is To Cope

  1. StrongerWendy says:

    HG, are the empath attempts to return to the golden period (placating, being extra nice, twisting themselves in knots to find favor again) also a version of the empath trying to exert control of the narcissist – which is ultimately rejected as all attempts to control the narcissist must be rejected?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, if attempted whilst being painted black.

  2. Kim says:

    I have just returned from vacation and it appears while I was gone the barn door was left open and the animals found their way inside. 👽👽👽

  3. Alex says:

    Always remember “the more offended by another person’s words to u r, the more u r selfish and self centred.” how? Cos u want that person to change. Why? To satisfy u, to satisfy ur self, to satisfy ur won selfishness. The very essence of the empath is to accept people just as they r and not needing anything in em to change. Why? Cos u don’t need anything from em. U only need ur self, ur inner core. When ur trying to change people u r playing God, that’s the narcs job not the empath. Remember when u do something wrong u r only hurt because that part of u that thinks its god shouldn’t av dun anything wrong in the first place. That’s pride cos we r ultimately all of us empath included selfish. U guys r just like me the only time we do anything wivout a selfish motive is by mistake. When we do something wiv a selfless motive it aint us doing it but god doing it through us. Wake up to that fact, waking up is uncomfortable. U will hate me for my messages to u. But in time u’ll think “that old super heyoka empath was right after all and he meant us good not harm.”. My work here is finished I leave u now in peace. Be at peace. God bless. Reverent Alexander. B. Ba honours theology. “the outcast’s evangelical reformed Street church, Wales,

    1. Another Cat says:

      “When we do something wiv a selfless motive it aint us doing it but god doing it through us. Wake up to that fact, waking up is uncomfortable”

      I wish you all the best and didn’t want to reply anymore but here I am.

      You are barking up the wrong tree. Telling empaths to be selfless is a bit like bringing snow to the Antarctic.

  4. Another Cat says:

    No evolutionist has never been proved my friend not once.

    Streptococcal bacteria groups have altered through natural selection, clocked and observed in lab.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed AC and thank you, I imagine your observation is more for the benefit of other readers as opposed to He Who Has Lost His Dog.

      1. Another Cat says:

        Very welcome HG. I’m preparing for future questions for lab proof of global warming.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ha ha, indeed.

  5. Alex says:

    Saying all u sense is nonsense is correct hg. Yep that still doesn’t answer my questions. Also great deflection and transference neurosis hg to shift it on to me. Easy to see for the trained empath that is. Just like ur doing wic cat empath, deflecting, transferring blah blah blah. But ur still fear baesd.

    1. Robin says:

      Hi Alex, how can you say you are spiritually dead to God, you are not…. there has to be dark to be light…yes narcs are horrible with manipulation especially to those who are intimate with them, but outside in public they seem to be some of the greatest people, granted mostly an act but that’s okay

    2. Pale Horse says:

      Alex, there are three life lessons you need to learn.
      1. You do not matter.
      2. You are irrelevant.
      3. You are insignificant

  6. Alex says:

    1. Darth renardo ur not an empath make no mistake u ain’t so stop pretending u R AND SAYING “I’M NOT UR DEAR” PROVES TO ME THAT UR A MEN HATING, MEN EMASCULATI G NARCISIST SNOWFLAKE RADICAL FEMENIST. I can read u like a book gorgeous darling. I warned u the spiritual person can read below the surface of words to discern their depth. Also go and study the heyoka. 2. Hg in capitals oh av a day off darling title’s mean nothing.. Get over ur self and grow up. 3. Hg says “i don’t make sense,” of course hg ur thinking is in black and white u won’t get the grey areas, or ur playing the deceptive card again when u do know what I’m saying. 4. So what if my texts wiv “av” and “wiv” sound childish who cares, , boom I’m letting my little child go wild. Shallow u r if u want full conscientious courteous words spelt out correctly. Get over ur selves. 5. Hg isn’t my enemy in accordance wiv respect ur enemies and be more loving. U sound like a snowflake. There’s tough love too mind. 6. Also hg ur sowing the seeds of ur own destruction by empowering empath on ere. 6. Am I gods strormtrooper? Ha ha ha lol. God don’t need people to do his work darling. 7. Who said I was a believer in god? 8. My name as anger says it all my paraphrase of the person who said that. Gosh my dear u paint anger and aggressions as negative things. No they can be used for positive things to. Righteous anger against evil is one example, want any more examples? Now repeat that back to me so that u understand. Also my brethren empaths of whatever variety stop playing the victims, learn to use ur tools and fight back. Tudor is using ur victim role to empower himself. Ask ur self one question if u av been on this site a while “sinse putting emperor hg’s teaching into application in my life is my life better?” if his teachings r true they will work, if their not true they won’t work. Oh Saint anger is taken from the Metallica album Saint anger. Yes hg I am strange fruit as u say. All empath r fruit to u. They taste good. But don’t ever bite into and taste the fruit of the heyoka empath cos its poison to u narcs. 4 exams in the film Interview wiv a vampire and the book to lestat teaches Louis “never to drink blood from the dead as it will make u very very ill. “. In reality its the same wiv us heyokas never drink fuel from us hg and u narcs cos it will make u ill. Word to the wise there, though narcs r never wise. Saint Anger.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      Hmmm. Maybe an appointment with Specsavers is in order. Maybe a good few years in Grammar School is a priority. Including lessons in manners and how to respect others who may have had very difficult lives, dealing with all sorts – not just those with narcissism. Maybe get a better computer or phone that has a special button called “Spellcheck” and get one especially made, labelled “Grammar Check”.

      I am so pleased to see HG’s responses are still better and certainly much more educated than yours. HG is a god, saint, supporter, empowerment (and much more) to those who are Empaths, Normals and Narcissistics too. What are you??

      Don’t you dare to respond to me. Don’t ever put other people down, especially when you do not know these people. You have the right to your own opinions but some of your comments are way disrespectful.

      BTW Star Wars is fictional. FICTIONAL. It’s NOT REAL. Even the clown in ‘IT’ wears make up all day and night.

      1. Alex says:

        Ha ha ha ha lol wonderful darth, wonderful. Still obsessed wiv my grammar that shows shallowness and lack of tolerance. Also oh u av hard such a hard life avnt u and the others. We all av dear, stop living in the past. Did I ever say star wars was real, no I didn’t I said the films teachings cum from the worlds great religions. Ha ha marvelous. Just exposes u further. What u think hg is a Saint ha ha ha lol. Define Saint my beauty? The heyoka doesn’t put people down sweetheart they just show em what they really r inside. That’s why the heyoka is hated, even falsely called a narc. But our mirroring is always to build up and restore the balance wiv in u my child. “a little wounding brings much healing.” medicine never tastes nice my dear but gives replenishment. It also means God’s got ur attention and is putting his loving finger on that pain to bring bout healing. All emperor hg will do is put a plaster on it. So drop the political correctness comments in defence and retaliation, address the little girl wiv in ur self and self parent her, validate her and tell her how much u love her. Remember flower the heyoka disrupts the ceromony, the meeting to bring bout change, changes the energies and flows out of chaos and darkness peace and light to bring about the change in others in that meeting, or ceremony. This on hg’s site is a meeting, shamanism like kung fu is in everything. If ur not a narc then u are acting out of narc mode which ur empathic traits round ur shadow r meant to be keeping in check. I get that and understand that. So instead of revolting in defence accept the illumination u r receiving as painful as it is, that’s what I do. I’m sorry and I apologise if I av hurt u I never meant to. But hey that is part of the healing process in ripping the scab off the wound and putting my finger in there wiv ointment causing great pain. “the admission price to a new life is pain, all growth is pain, change is pain.” as u go through that growth u’ll find simple things will be cum harder, u’ll becum more hypersensitive to critercism, less tolerant. “but this to shall pass.” and is part of the process, trust the process, every blessing to u star voyager, u may be on the path if not already of a Shaman. Saint Madness.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          WTF. I am not your fkg ANYTHING. I don’t belong to you. I never will. You are disrespecting women by doing that. A real empath would not do it. At all.

          Yes! I don’t think. I know. HG is a Saint. He has done far more than you have possibly ever done. You still have failed to answer – what the fk have you done for the good of society? Eh?! All talk and no trousers. Oops, maybe that’s just it. No more trousers either. Is that the real reason?! It’s “stopped” working “down there in your trousers”. Oh, dear.

          You are so ignorant and selfish to even consider that there are thousands of people on this site – how many of them rely on proper English to be used so that they may be able to translate it into their own language. Some others may have visual impairments and they may need paragraphs to make t easier for them to read.

          You profess to be a “special” empath. PROVE IT by adopting a proper language so that everyone can understand. But it’s possibly well beneath your understanding of humanity, social community groups etc.

          And, are you saying that I am a narc too. You’re bang out of order. I am not. So you can go suck on your own dick, oops, it’s not working. Piss off.

        2. Intrepid Traveller says:

          Isn’t saint anger a name of a cheese from Asda?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I thought it was the name of a dildo from Anne Summers.

        3. Violetta says:

          Your grammar is a crock. You say “wiv in” like you’re the Artful Bloody Dodger, down wit da peeps on da cockney street, but then you refer to Jacques freakin’ Derrida. You are not Good Will Hunting, genius mind among the proles: you’re the guy with the predictable reading list he ripped into at the bar.

          Since we’re on Metallica, where’s your crown, king nothing? So much more fitting than “Saint Anger.”

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            “How do you like them apples?”

    2. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Ahhh, lovely and now we see your true colours Saint Anger.

      I did actually research the Heyoka Empath today. I know exactly what they are. The Heyoka Empath is supposed to speak their truth then move on. They are not supposed to bang on and on and become involved in the outcome of that truth.
      If you are in fact a heyoka, you can consider your truth spoken, littered with attacks and completely misleading information as it might have been. Now the next part of the heyoka role. Jog on.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Jog on. LOL. You’re being too polite. Yeah, I looked into heyoka too. It said something about clowns. ☺

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It has been appropriated by narcissists, it reeks of it.

      2. Alex says:

        Ah right so u now belive there is a heyoka, no I spoke to u when u were in narc mode. Also the heyoka does speak the truth and move on. Correct, however that doesn’t mean they speak the truth just once, like I said in another comment a good teacher if need be repeats himself or herself to get the point across till fuly understood. This may take 5 or 6 times in repeating like the prophets of old did in the old testament who were all hyekas by the way. So u av looked at heyokas just the once and ur now an expert on us. Come on man. And truth is conveyed in love but love is tough love to. U do what u like wiv what I shared wiv u. But this I know, behind ur words u r in great pain. U say my information is misleading but u don’t say how? So u r being misleading ur self. I’m mirroring u again.

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Your information is misleading due to the following reasons:
          1. It is very difficult to follow and surrounded by Star Wars rhetoric not real life examples.
          2. It is littered with attacks. Without re reading you have inferred that both myself and Renarde are narcissists. This is incorrect.
          3. You make reference to HG feeding from you. If you had any understanding of narcissists and fuel you would know that we are all tertiary sources, fuel provided here is therefore negligible. Which you would know, if you understood the Fuel Matrix of a Narc.
          4. You have implied that HG is feeding from us as empaths. See point 3.
          5. You brand yourself a Heyoka and claim to speak the Truth. I cannot see a clear message objective in anything you have written so far.
          6. You are happy to use the term Heyoka and describe yourself as such. You have not provided any explanation to the readers here as to what a Heyoka Empath actually is. This negates you’re authenticity. It is not adopting a teaching approach at all.
          7. You clearly have no understanding of what a Super Empath is. You have interacted with several here already and failed to recognise them. Your mirror must need cleaning.
          8. You have thrown down the gauntlet in terms of demanding which of us here feel better thanks to HG’s work. The answer is, we all feel better and have benefited from HG’s logic here. We wouldn’t be here otherwise. Your assumption as to us not feeling better is therefore incorrect.
          9. You have misinterpreted the lighthearted comments on other threads between HG and the empaths here. In fact you have been quite derogatory in that respect. You misinterpret the esteem in which we hold HG as being something negative to our wellbeing. You are incorrect. We are empaths and Hold HG in great esteem due to the effectiveness of his work. Narcissistic abuse is difficult reading. Sometimes we need to have a joke and we are entitled to do so.
          10. You are filled with negativity. When you aren’t attacking HG personally (which doesn’t overly concern me as he is more than capable of defending himself), you are attacking readers or preaching at them. This undermines your message and places your motivation into question.

          I could go on.

          I did look at Heyoka empaths today so that I could draw an informed conclusion. You will find many of the empaths here are both open hearted and open minded. As such you should perhaps ask yourself why it is that you have not been welcomed into this group.

          I trust this answers your question.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Round of applause from me, HG approves. Measured, accurate and also beautiful numbers, wonderfully correct spelling and sweet, sweet punctuation, oh how my weary eyes warmed to such order, a delicious contrast to the inane ramblings of He Who Has Lost His Dog.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            If you’re tired HG, take a break. You deserve it. You’ve worked hard.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Kind of you, but I’m not tired, only my eyes grew weary of the stream of nonsense being poured forth.

          4. Asp Emp says:

            LOL. Yup. He is not you, HG. Never will be.

          5. Asp Emp says:

            WAY TO GO Truthseeker. Applause from me too. You did better than I did. Well done lass 🙂

          6. blackcoffee30 says:

            “What the fuck is going on in here on this day?” Alyssa Edwards

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBCr-tAsKTc

            😂 It’s out of control, stop feeding the trolls!!

            TS broke it down tho, on the real, real.

          7. truthseeker6157 says:

            HG, Asp, Black Coffee,

            Thank you for your support. Your comments made me chuckle. X

          8. Asp Emp says:

            Bless you Truthseeker. You are more than welcome. Hope you put that little s***e in his place. Maybe I have too? The true Empaths (and our, Lord HG too) rallied. And won.? Maybe. Just Maybe.

          9. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Asp,

            The fact that an empath so new to the blog and to the group here, felt the need to stand up for herself and the others speaks volumes in my opinion. x

            In answer to your question…..

            Probably.

            (Ha Ha)

          10. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear truthseeker,
            😱 Wow
            That was constructively awesome and magic to read
            👏
            Thank you oh brilliant one
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          11. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Bubbles you do make me chuckle x

            It’s funny, as I was reading the comments from St Anger, I thought, “ I wish bubbles was here to comment.” You would cut to the chase, but in a kind way. I would have loved to see the interaction there.

            I thought about what you said to me the other day about never feeling I should have to justify myself. I’ve really thought about that. I think as empaths we justify to people often to make them understand what we can feel. An explanation of sorts. So I have likely always justified my comments and feelings in that sense.

            Narcissists lock on to us, see the behaviours and use them to their advantage. Given my interactions were largely online, physical control of me wasn’t possible. I suppose I was subjected to more gaslighting, more silent treatments, more mind games as a result. A trait of mine that was likely healthy to start with was corrupted to the point where I now habitually justify myself across the board.

            HG says we bear scars of previous narcissistic relationships. I didn’t really grasp what he meant at first. Now I do. If he and I were to have a normal conversation, at some point, probably at several points, I would say something and justify it. He would pick up on that. There’s my scar.

            You’re right Bubbles. I refuse to carry a visible scar. I’m really going to work on that. It took years to scar me, it might take a while for me to correct. I will correct it though.

            I’m very grateful for your comment Bubbles, thank you. Xx

          12. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest truthseeker,
            1) I luv the fact that Mr Tudor allows us a glimpse of what crosses his path daily
            I’m sure we’d all be completely staggered 😱 knowing the full content (thankfully we don’t )
            There are many situations here, where I have seen possible interactions would not be beneficial. Time and effort would be wasted and most likely fall on deaf ears
            If it was reasonably legible, constructive, concise, or even factual and warranted a worthy response, naturally one would consider participation, particularly if most parties gained from it
            I’m not really into one sided, head banging conversations anymore 🤕haha
            Sometimes, ‘ya just gotta’ put it in the ‘too hard’ basket and move on

            101 Never engage in a losing battle 😂

            2) I was always justifying myself with lengthy monologues TS, I felt I HAD to (part of being an empath, I guess)
            Giving excuses, when they’re really not necessary. We do it to satisfy ourselves, still be liked and accepted at the same time. We give people way too much unnecessary information
            It’s also a dead give away, especially to narcs
            You can say ‘no’, ‘I’m busy”, ‘I don’t want to’ ‘I can’t make it’, ‘ I’d rather not’,
            without the ‘because’ then followed by the ‘life story’ of the reason or justification
            Start practising, it’s really good
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

            Recent example
            I rang a bloke to organise a pick up of some unwanted goods
            He was a no show, twice. I rang again and politely asked why he didn’t ring or text to let me know
            Then came his long winded justification
            He should’ve said, I’m sorry, my mistake” ( I would’ve respected him more)
            Third pick up attempt was successful, but it also came with a further, lengthy, repeated justification, he was a chatterbox 😱
            I had to politely say, “it’s fine, it’s ok, we’ve already discussed it, it’s finished, let’s move on, now could you please move your butt, I have things to do, places to go and people to meet ”
            Please, somebody save me, eeeeeeeekkkkkk 😂

          13. truthseeker6157 says:

            Dear Bubbles,

            Thank you for your suggestion. I agree I have a strong need to explain myself, especially after a ‘no’ . In fact I very rarely say no directly. Only in frustration. Come to think of it, I think I’ve always been that way.

            Your example made me laugh. I would have been stood on the doorstep for an hour listening to delivery guy! Worse, I would have added an example of a time where I forgot something to make him feel better! In fact, shortly after my mum had me she walked into town with me in the stroller. She went in to Dorothy Perkins and left me parked outside. She came out and walked home, made a cup of tea and sat down. Then realised she had forgotten me. She ran back as it started to rain. There I was still parked in the same spot, snoring softly. Ha ha. That would have done the trick! Delivery guy would have been completely absolved, until the next time!

            Oh dear, there might be work to be done here!

            Xx

        2. Violetta says:

          St. Axel Nose:

          “No more of this, for Godde’s dignity!”
          Quoth oure Hoste; “for thou makest me
          So weary of thy very lewedness,*
          That, all so wisly* God my soule bless,
          Mine eares ache for thy drasty* speech.
          Now such a rhyme the devil I beteche:*….
          “By God!” quoth he, “for, plainly at one word,
          Thy drasty rhyming is not worth a tord’:

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Fair comment.

        3. Kiki says:

          What is this about .Im late to see this thread .
          This is jibberish , it’s completely nuts .I mean this kindly but
          Are you taking illegal drugs or hallucogenic substances.

          You sound high as a kite Saint A

          Kiki

  7. FN says:

    Narcissism must maintain the construct (the false self) and imprison the creature (the true self). Have you written anything on the true self of the narc – the creature? Is this similar to others who have had to shut down their true selves in order to cope with abuse but formed other coping mechanisms..even as I type this I am thinking not, maybe wishful thinking on my behalf and highlighting my itch to fix! Is it exhausting being a narc? It appears to be a lot of work maintaining control in all aspects of your environment.

    1. lickemtomorrow says:

      Here’s an option to learn more about ‘the creature’, FN:

      https://narcsite.com/2020/07/26/the-creature-2/

      1. Alex says:

        Very good point, 100s of thousands of real beyond human aid and councilling get released from their narc state and reconnected to their true self the true little loving creature-child wivin, through a spiritual experience or spiritual awakening (there is a difference between a spiritual experience and spiritual awakening) worldwide in alcoholics anonymous, narcotics anonymous through touching the Divine Surpreme Being by working the 12 steps daily. Emperor hg will deny this and blirtherly say “their not real narcs” but he doesn’t hold the monopoly on narcissism. A spiritual awakening to emperor hg is an anomaly, its phenomena he can’t understand. That’s why he can never answer my spiritual questions. It also terrifies him, remember a narc can’t control fear like an empath can. The narcs entire life is predicated by fear. Saint Anger.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. A spiritual awakening is entirely ineffective. It will not resolve narcissism. You have made your point, it is incorrect and misleading. Such observations will no longer be countenanced.
          2. You do not understand me. I am a narcissistic psychopath therefore I do not experience fear.
          3. Narcissists (not narcissistic psychopaths) do experience fear, they are able to address it.
          4. Empaths experience fear, with regard to the narcissist my material sets out how this can be addressed.

          1. Alex says:

            But u can’t prove a spiritual awakening cannot resolve narcism? Where’s ur evidence? U av nun. Ur need to control shows u av fear, ur need for supply is fear based. What is fear? “fear is a manefestation of self, the inner self, of selfishness, fear isn’t external its always internal. Fear I won’t get what I want, fear of what people will think of me, fear of the c19 virus, fear the economy is going to collapse etc.”. Its all fear, I sense much fear in u hg. Typical sith Lord full of fear. Saint Anger.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            The only thing you sense, is nonsense.

          3. Another Cat says:

            Sorry for intruding but this makes me curious (truthseeker mode)

            “I am a narcissistic psychopath therefore I do not experience fear.”

            HG, what do you feel when a meteor is heading very close towards your house, or a poisonous snake, what makes you flee?

            In my case it’s fear and emotional thinking.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No meteor has come near my house. If I knew one was coming, I would ensure I was not there but I would not be driven by fear, I would operate through logic namely, the meteor would have catastrophic consequences therefore it is to be avoided.
            If a meteor is heading very close towards a poisonous snake, the snake is fucked.

          5. Violetta says:

            “If a meteor is heading very close towards a poisonous snake, the snake is fucked.”

            Fun with subject and object nouns.

          6. Another Cat says:

            “I would operate through logic namely, the meteor would have catastrophic consequence”

            Thank you. I guess I was asking about sudden danger, like a very unexpected tiger jumping out in front of you from a bush. Where you don’t have time to prepare or plan.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            I do not have a startle reflex, but I know a tiger would be a danger. I would either shoot it, or rapidly move away from it.

          8. Empath007 says:

            No fear. Now THAT is a superpower. You’re super man HG (as If you didn’t already know).

            A more serious question though. The other day I had seen you told someone that narcissim was not on a spectrum, this I found confusing considering this example (some experience fear others don’t) and then there being different cognitive functions (lower, middle, greater). Perhaps I misunderstood the comment but am curious. Is there not a spectrum ?

          9. HG Tudor says:

            The commenter thought that narcissism operates on a spectrum, i.e. you can be a little bit of a narcissist or a lot of narcissist, but that is incorrect. You are either a narcissist or not. If you are a narcissist, there are different schools within the narcissism, but all of those schools are complete narcissists, not partial, not part-time, not slightly.

          10. Asp Emp says:

            “Such observations will no longer be countenanced.”

            Way to go HG.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you.

          12. alexissmith2016 says:

            I watched a documentary some time ago about a family who didn’t feel any physical pain. So for example, if one of them broke their arm they would not realise unless it caused functional problems. jees imagine if one of this rare group of people was also a psychopath too. They would really struggle to have any true grasp on reality.

          13. Another Cat says:

            “I would either shoot it, or rapidly move away from it.”

            Very much appreciated descriptions, HG.

          14. alexissmith2016 says:

            It’s interesting, when I was learning about psychopaths early on, I had read they had no startle reflex. And because so many experts used the terms interchangeably and because Ps/Ns are apparently very rare 1 in 100 (I now know this not to be true, yes Ps are rare but Ns not so), I would use this as a test, do something a normal person would jump at to determine whether my assertions of them being an N/P were correct. How naive I was.

            I think my sister is possibly a P, she has no startle reflex and is not scared of anything at all. Whilst most definitely an N, likely UMR she does not appear to have a sadistic streak? which appears to be at odds somewhat.

          15. Empath007 says:

            I see. That makes sense. I misread the commentors question. Thanks for clarifying.

          16. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

        2. Renarde says:

          St A

          Thank the Gods you’ve dropped the text speak.

          I got on my knees last night (no, not for that reason) and prayed to the Great Sky God (no, not Hg) and my prayers were thusly answered wrt your verbiage. A miracle! Then I pinched Hgs bagel for good measure.And fucked up his Uni results. A good day.

          You have a lot to learn, my friend.

          Actually, Hg pretty much does have the monopoly on narcissism. As much as it pains me to admit it. I know he’s the real deal because I have a friend. Met him getting on for three years ago. He is also aware. Not interested in me in the slightest. Not that way but we do talk.

          My friend was the check and balance against Hg. He calls me a self aware Empath. Hg calls us weaponised Empaths. Eerily similar. My friend calls me rare. I am one of three, apparently. All female. All in our forties.

          I’ve talked to him about the concept that he could write. No, not interested. Although the stories he could tell.

          Talking to him, having access to him, like Hg, is a priveledge and it’s so bloody rare. I wonder if people in consult actually get that? Hope they do.

          But to your point. No, Hg cannot become spiritually aware. That doesnt mean that he cannot understand it however. He’s just simply not interested.

          Why have you changed your name?

          1. Alex says:

            1). I ain’t changed my name. 2). It’s god that wakes the soul up and makes em spiritually aware not the narc or the empath or the norm etc don’t be self deceived into thinking we av the power to wake ourselves up, we’re spiritually dead to God and a corpse cannot wake itself up or give itself life dear. No more than u can heal a sick mind wiv a sick mind. 3). U don’t av the monopoly on what God can and cannot do. In other words u may as well say “God cannot save a narcs arse.” well hy very definition he ain’t God then is he, also God can save whom and whosoever he wishes when he likes. 4). Go to aa and u’ll see plenty of real narcs redeemed. How would u or emperor hg know that can’t he dun if u ain’t experienced it? U don’t simple as that. How do u know what u don’t know? The spiritual real doesn’t beg answers it begs experience. 5). Il tell u again u ain’t an empath, ur smoking mirrors won’t work on me gorgeous darling. I tell u the truth again my live for the 3rd time, the spiritual person can see the truth behind people’s words, ur not an empath, not even a co-dependent, ur a narc. Saint Anger.

          2. Renarde says:

            Blah.

            Ever heard of the cute thing we call ‘The Paragraph?’

          3. Alex says:

            I’d say stop feeding hg wiv compliments, ur disinpowering ur self u silly snowflake. Saint Sexy.

          4. Renarde says:

            Oh. I’m upset. Very.

            Can I not suck his cock? Say it ain’t so!?

          5. Another Cat says:

            Hey, Renarde, don’t make too much fun of HG tonight, he’s trying to manage correct advice to newcomer survivors of abuse.

            /but you are one of my favourite commenters on the only three blogs I ever care to read.

          6. Renarde says:

            AC

            That’s very kind of you to say so .

            Appreciate it.

        3. Violetta says:

          Decided you aren’t Saint Anger anymore? Did they take you off the calendar along with Sts. Christopher and Ursula?

          1. Asp Emp says:

            RAOFLMAO

          2. Alex says:

            Heh Heh Heh lol. Saint Sexy.

      2. FN says:

        Thank you.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          You’re welcome, FN 🙂

  8. Emilija says:

    Thank you for this article. I’m an empath, however, raised by a narcissistic mother, I was neglected, B-graded (still) and facsimiled (not successfully). When I was a teenager, my grandmother told me on her death bed that it was my responsibility to take care of my mother; a job I’ve had since I could walk and talk. This has resulted in my being an overachiever, and staying married to a mid range narcissist for 20 years. I overcompensated for him, was the major earner of the family, as well as child caregiver, housekeeper, spiritual head of the family, and anything else that was required. However, I knew what he was, I never believed his lies, and was physically repulsed by him by year 10. I stayed because of my faith, and my desire to make my family prosper, despite him. It was important to me to raise decent human beings, and I succeeded. I divorced him once my youngest went to college. After this, I only have relationships with narcissists. My years of training in this regard help me to play their games right back at them. When I’m being love bombed, I search for others that I can use as back up when the honeymoon period is over. When they triangulate, I also triangulate. When they give me silent treatment, I stay silent. When they do hurtful things to get a response, I don’t respond. My self loathing keeps me with them, and my trauma bonding doesn’t find satisfaction with normal men. I succeed at no contact, and then move onto someone else who is a narcissist. It’s an unfair and destructive loop. However, I both envy, and weep for narcissists because they don’t feel love. Someday, I’ll be fully recovered.

    1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dearest Emilija,
      I feel saddened for the course you have endeavoured upon. It leaves no scope to find true happiness and what is real, self sabotaging in fact
      I do not feel envy or weep for narcs
      I do not believe we ever fully recover
      Time to stop self loathing and start self loving Emilija
      Be kind to yourself lovely one 💕
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. Emilija says:

        Thank you Bubbles ❤️

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear Emilija,
          You’re welcome lovely
          Please don’t play tit for tat, it’s futile for you in the end
          I prefer my normal over a narc any day
          Food for thought, your kids will know
          Begin loving yourself first
          💕
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  9. Sandra says:

    This article’s subject matter is one of my favorite HG points. Whenever someone asks me “Why the hell did XXX do this?” “What is xxxx about?” “Why all this drama?!” my answer is the same: “To assert control.” The situation doesn’t even matter; the answer is always about assertion of control. Basic premise, and entirely critical to understanding narcissism.

    The bulk of the comments from the self-styled Saint, tho, was like reading Leftist commentary and gave me a headache.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Agree Sandra. Might style myself as Belinda Big Boobs then sit and hope.

  10. Asp Emp says:

    Excellent article. I can really understand how & why narcissism can be ‘started’. I also can now ‘compartmentalise’ the narcissists in my past – what created their narcissism in the first place. It’s a great way of being able to ‘put it to bed’ and let go of the past. No more ‘whys, whats, hows’.

  11. Whitney says:

    HG, I’m very drawn to people who need something deep inside of themselves. If I pump the Codependent with validation and allow them to recognise their genuine worth, maybe it will help over time.
    I thought I could help the Narcissist too, with my acceptance. That’s not true though is it. I can’t heal the Narcissist. The Narcissist will only abuse me, in time.

    1. Another Cat says:

      Cheering for you and the Codependant. Because that is an empathic human being.

      1. Alex says:

        No u can’t heal the narc that’s correct, only god can do that, the narc is totally beyond human aid. This I do agree wiv emperor hg on. I call him emperor as in star wars etc. Also to rip the piss out of hg. Heyoka sacred clown trait moving to humour to break the ice and barriers

        1. Another Cat says:

          “Heyoka sacred clown trait moving to humour to break the ice and barriers”

          Ok, I feel you. ❤️

  12. Alex says:

    Oh no hg when u say to me “u av already been Warned once.” and call me insulting names, oh oh how that hurts me, I’m sorry please cum back to me I can’t cope wivout u hg. ‘sarcasam.’ ha ha ha ha lol. Saint Anger.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I have not warned you once. That was Renarde. You seem to be unable to distinguish between me HG Tudor and another commenter who goes by the name of Renarde. This, along with the word salad that you have been generating and unhelpful comments, continues to emphasise that what you write is best left unread.

      1. Renarde says:

        Hg

        IT just writes itself. C’est est incredible!

        Unhelpful? You said it.

        I like Metallica.

  13. Saint anger. says:

    Hg u said earlier “ur comment is misleading” concerning what i said. 1). It can’t be misleading if I agree with u that r narc can’t be healed etc through therapy. 2). It also can’t be misleading when a narc can be healed supernaturally when this isn’t ur field of expertise. There r scores of cases where narcs r healed supernaturally. It would be better for u to say “if that’s true true in that field then its outside of my synthetic knowledge and secular knowledge.” Saint Anger. Ps. Bu still ain’t answered my questions either, hiding behind “ur spelling is atrocious Saint anger” is just narc deflection to mainain ur arrogance and false ego of “I’m hg super narc and I’m never wrong even when I am wrong.”. U remind me of evolutionist professor Richard Dawkins, a narc by the way to. But u like him and the other narcs on here hide behind rhetoric and u think that’s intelligence and interlectual, but it aint. Its just rhetoric. So please be a good boy and answer my questions. If not just kick me off ur site and block me. Cos once u’ve tasted one narc uve tasted em all, their just clipped, sterile, sanitised, no wildness, indoctrinated, bland and mediocre and no imagination for originality cos they take everything from others in mimicking. Frauds narcs r, fakes, phoneys. Plastic artificial and contrived, but I still loves ya hg. Now feed on that negative fuel I’ve just give U. U look tred and pale hg, cum on now and feed on the nice Mr heyoka empath, my fuel is free for u I won’t ask much in return except u blow me a kiss. Saint Anger.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A narcissist cannot be healed through therapy.
      A narcissist cannot be healed supernaturally.

      Clear enough? This is my field of expertise – narcissism and your claim that narcissists have been healed supernaturally is wrong.

      Interestingly, you reference Mr Dawkins, you do so , because you clearly do not accept evolutionary theory. That is your entitlement, however, it is not a stance which finds any favour or standing here.

      You have asked in an earlier comment, why I have not written about heyoka empaths. The reason being is that they do not exist. There is such thing as a heyoka, which is a native American sacred clown of the Lakota people. The individual is a contrarian, behaves in a backwards manner and may ask questions that other people do not wish to ask. It is not a form of empath. Indeed, from my reading, I see many who claim to be heyoka empaths as not being an empath at all, but rather demonstrating the determining factors of narcissists who think they are empaths and some kind of spiritually attuned one.

      Your observations are unhelpful and inaccurate.

      Interestingly, you accuse me of hiding behind stating that your spelling is atrocious (it is – I was stating a fact) and then engage in several ad hominem comments thereafter. You have made your point, albeit clumsily. I do not need to answer you further because the considerable body of work I have produced and over 40 000 comments and answers which I have provided, make the position clear.

      I have no need to kick you off my site or block you.

      You also do not understand fuel. May I suggest you read the book “Fuel” and focus on that rather than advancing inaccuracy.

      1. Alex says:

        1). Wrong bout heyokas u r again, they do exist, yes the native American term it is. But their born into all cultures, more of em than u know. 2). To say their narcs describing em selves as empath is a blanket term for (I can’t prove they don’t exist cos their outside of my scope of study or I av never encounted one so they they don’t exist cos I don’t believe in em). Just cos u ain’t reduced em to an experiment doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Just like me saying “well I don’t belive in Jeremy corbyn”. But it doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist. For a quotes sake “there is a person who will keep emself in everlasting ignorance through contempt in the quest for truth, and that ignorance is contempt prior to investigation.” furthermore USA Indians r not the only culture to av shamans, siberia, amazon, celtic shamans, aborigines shamans. They all av the sacred clown heyoka, just the name is USA Indian. U saying they r only USA red Indian is just like saying there’s only Buddhism in India cos that’s where it originates. Flawed thinking of the rational mind babe emperor hg. 3). U really do av a bee in ur bonnet bout my spelling don’t u, academic snobbery that is. Am I bugging u? Am I bugging u? Am I hugging U? U cannot explain the anomaly hg cos u don’t understand it. 4). Again ur a flawed academic and u don’t give a 3 point reason of why I don’t understand fuel? I’ve explained through examples of a vampires bloodrinking concerning the emotional fuel of a narc and more than once to. That’s disrespectful and lazy and deceptive of u my dear boy. I’ve laid out all my reasons simply where ur going wrong so why don’t u do the same for ur fans? Fear of being seen ur wrong, fear of the victim in u being exposed. Mirror mirror mirror u I will emperor hg. Also notice my sentence structures r backwards and sideways, that’s the heyoka baby. 5). “I the emperor and great one who has produced over 40,000 copies of my work on line.” so what Mr kipling has produced copious amounts of beautiful cakes for us to eat in the UK that didn’t make him a gordan bleu chef wiv full knowledge and monopoly of making cakes. Again I mirror back to u emperor ur need to be recognised through external validation. How? “I’ve produced 40,000 copies.” yep that just proves how empty u feel I side and how much u crave attention. U in a rage yet bute? 6). U ain’t explained why my comments r unhelpful? U just made statements concerning em 7). Concerning Dawkins I thought we wasn’t going to discuss the 2 great theories of evolution and creationism ere dude? However I will be happy to discuss em wiv u at my email address or face to face over a pint if u like? 8). Creationism doesn’t find any favor on ere wiv ur kind, or anti-evolutionist sentences don’t either. I will mirror u again, u need to practice democratic tolerance concerning this then cos that ain’t freedom of speech. Also do u speak then in advocating that u vouch 4 every narc and empath on ere that nun of em disagree wiv evolutionary theory? 9). Heyokas feel empathy for others a lot higher and deeper than empaths on par wiv the super empath. If they feel empathy higher than cognitive level then they ain’t narcs. They maybe using narc traits but that doesn’t make em narcs. However I do agree wiv u that many empath, super-empaths and heyoka empath r narcs in disguise deliberately, or they don’t realise they r. Saint Anger. Ps. My gripe isn’t wiv evolution but Dawkins, his rhetoric and his narcissism, I don’t dislike Dawkins cos he’s an evolutionist but cos like u he is a bully.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That was just a noise.

          1. Alex says:

            Again ur deflecting wiv a statement emperor hg (piss take me giving u the emperor name, humour through irony considering ur gutter trash meets the scum factor of academic zerodom) by not answering the questions I proposed. Classic Dawkins mindset that is. For example Dawkins used to espouse in his u tube vids “u may ask any question u like, any question.” Someone then would ask him a question he didn’t av the answer for and Dawkins would reply “u can’t ask that question.” all narcs at any level cum out wiv the same verbal garbage. Like robots they r churned off a steel emotionless factory line sum where in Aston, England the birth of heavy metal. Saint Madness.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Has your dog run away, Alex or rather Napoleon XIV?

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            Indeed it was and I just wasted another 30 seconds of my life on it!

            Where the question of fear is raised, I’ve often pondered you willingness to make yourself vulnerable in your sharing HG. When someone (like this) says you are ‘afraid’ what they fail to recognise is that element of vulnerability. It seems to me you have exposed a great deal about yourself here and in your writings with no fear on your part in doing so. I have asked you about this in a Q&A. It takes courage to make yourself vulnerable. I understand you do it for your own purposes, but I doubt anyone could deny an element of vulnerability in your doing so. You allow us to ‘see’ you.

            So I would like to remove the ‘fear factor’ from the equation of this argument. You have been honest about your need for fuel and the Prime Aims while also revealing to us ‘the creature’ that lurks within. Your awareness for what you are in that sense is astounding, revealing, and only to benefit of others to understand.

            The other thing is we see this person on the attack, claiming all sorts, but where is their vulnerability? They are a supposed Heyoka Empath with all kinds of special qualities, but apart from drawing their sword, they seem to have little to contribute here.

            I might remind them also of a portion of 1 Corinthians 13: 1-3 – “I may be able to speak the languages of human beings and even of angels, but if I have no love, my speech is no more than a noisy gong or a clanging bell.”

            Just to finish up.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Alex
          You must not be the empath you think you are, because if you actually felt empathy for others a lot higher and deeper you’d show us some and stop boring us to death.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Slam dunk.

          2. duchessbea says:

            NarcAngel, you said it girl. I was trying to be polite in my answer. But when dealing with arrogance. Well said.

        3. duchessbea says:

          Sorry, but this makes no sense. You need to read up on Empaths and the differences between them. Likewise you need to read HG’s work on the narcissists and the difference between each of them. You have come to the right place just watch what you say if you do not have the proper understanding of what you are talking about.

      2. blackcoffee30 says:

        HG – Ns cannot be healed through therapy, but some psychologists believe they can be “tempered,” if you will. This is assuming a willingness and ability on the part of the N.

        What are your thoughts on that? Is genuine, non-manipulative, change possible?

        I have no hope that it does. I think it’s about as likely as my cat becoming a healthy and thriving vegan, but I am curious.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No.

          Narcissism is a self-defence mechanism which is full formed and hermetically sealed. It cannot be undone and furthermore, the narcissism will not even allow anybody to attempt to do so as any attempt to do so threatens the narcissists sense of control and therefore the narcissism moves to reject the threat to that control. It is doubly entrenched. This is why you must control yourself and never attempt to control the narcissist.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Could it be triply entrenched with the narcissist’s lack of self awareness?

            1/ Not self aware (acting instinctively)
            2/ Fully entrenched as a self defense mechanism
            3/ Rejection of control in order to maintain defenses

            If awareness arises (rare, but possible) 2/ and 3/ still stand.

  14. Saint anger. says:

    Na man I couldn’t use jedi etc as my e mail status cos its to widely used. However all the jedi philosophies and religious 5eachings cum from the world’s great religions synthesis in one movie genre. The sith r the polar opposites of those teachings that spring from the dark elements of those religions and philosophies and the grey jedi and sentinel jedi r the balance of both. But of course the jedi 4 just fictional characters as u know, but the teachings cum from our history, world history. Clever dude George lucas. I use movie genres to reach cos its popular culture and most r familiar wiv it. A good teacher always explains his point and repeats what he says to. If u want to belive humans r just evolved animals go knock urselfout that aint a problem wiv me. I believe us humans narcs included r higher beings wiv a soul the ghost in the machine if u like wiv a divine purpose and we r made in dignity rather than an animal. But as hg said or I’ll paraphrase this site ain’t the place to debate our origins in the past. Darth renardis and flesh saber ha ha ha lol. Saint Anger.

  15. lickemtomorrow says:

    I have just listened to “10 Ways You Threaten the Narcissist’s Control”.

    It is, as you say, a second by second play and and one in which the victim becomes as tightly bound up as the narcissist in their need for control. I had no idea that the need for control could extend so far in terms of the minutiae. It really was an eye opener, HG. Although most narcissist’s won’t know they are doing it consciously, it’s incredible to imagine how their manipulations are a constant theme running throughout their day and their lives. I felt wound up like a spring just listening to this one. I don’t know how you cope when the level of control and manipulations needing to be applied is conscious rather than unconscious. But I do understand it better now.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      HG approves.

  16. MGM says:

    I still wholeheartedly believe narcissists minds can be rewired and they’d benefit so greatly from it but many like to stay in the role of abuser that they won’t try.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You remain entrenched in emotional thinking by having such a view and the sooner you expunge it from your mind, the more progress you will achieve, MGM.

      1. Saint anger. says:

        Wrong hg I’ve seen narcs healed and rewired, not by natural means mind u kid. But supernaturally. The only way 4 a narc including upper and greater narcs to be healed is supernaturally. Saint Anger.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You have not. They will not have been narcissists.

          1. Saint anger. says:

            Soz pal they were real narcs and I’ve seen God heal em I know that as a trainedcounciller. Also read acts c9. Saul was an evil narc who became an empath apostle. God rewired him. Dude God is a lot bigger than narcissism. And u seem to be getting ur hair off hg I can feel ur negative vibrations. Now let me say this u may be 100% convinced that narcs can’t be healed. However how do u know what u don’t know? In other words u can’t 100% prove that narcs can’t be healed supernaturally. If u could hg u’d be God and I’d be worshiping u. However I leave u wiv this quote “a man will seem correct and right in what he says until another man comes along and questions him.”. Meditate on that kid, oh soz u must allow me to apologise, u can’t meditate can u cos u can’t look within just a liitle dig there 4 u cos I know u narcs don’t like to be exposed. Saint Anger.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Your argument is incorrect and ill-founded. Your comment demonstrates that. I need add nothing more.

          3. Renarde says:

            The only thing you are trained in St Anger is run on sentences, deleterious usage of acronyms and and misquoting of the Bible.

            Apart from that; all good.

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            In all honesty, if the statement wasn’t so lacking in Christian charity … but wait. Even if you add Christian charity, you overlook the very real implications of something that is hard wired into a person’s brain. While I believe in God and also believe in miracles, there is also a lot to be said for loving someone where they’re at. Free will is what makes allowances for change in accordance with God’s will. That’s from a Christian perspective and not everyone shares that perspective. So, there’s no forcing a square peg into a round hole. And there’s certainly a better way to make your point if you feel it has to be made than running down the author of the blog. I could include grammar, punctuation and style, but I see Renarde is already on to that.

            BTW, nice to see you back Renarde 🙂

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Renarde,

            Hello lovely. Glad you are here x

          6. Eternity says:

            HG, can you please tell Saint Anger to use proper English. I have read his comments and I feel as though a child is on the blog.
            I cannot grasp what he is trying to say. Sorry.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Don’t waste your time trying.

          8. Asp Emp says:

            HG, you are giving this “Saint Anger” fuel……… pack it in 🙂 And spend your time doing what you do best.

          9. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you Eternity – for speaking up. It’s probably a cow that’s been fed steak and it’s trying to s**t an Oxford English Dictionary…….

        2. Gina G says:

          I had a doctor tell me my husband was a narcissist, I later decided after learning quite a bit that she too was most likely an narcissist. Very hard to get through to me, but I don’t believe either one of them knows they are narcissists. Said doctor did tell me at one time that she believed that a narcissist could only change through a spiritual revelation. You can assume that to be true, but knowing what we know about people and how unlikely they are to change the smallest of things, why would you bank your life on this anyway? If a narcissist has a teeny tiny possibility of having some spiritual revelation, why do you want to focus on that? As opposed to just getting on your with your life and having relationships with the billions upon billions of other people that are in the world? It makes no sense from that perspective. If said person has a spiritual revelation and becomes un-narced, then they can come back to you at a later date to tell you what they have discovered. Only this will never happen because you are not the exception and neither are they. Statistically this is so unlikely to happen that we might as well say it never will.

          1. Violetta says:

            Alessandro Serenelli, the probable psychopath who sexually harassed and murdered St. Maria Goretti, reportedly had a revelation in prison and repented. His reformation seems to have extended beyond trying to get time off for good behavior: after he was released, he begged Maria’s mother for forgiveness, spoke in Maria’s favor when she was up for beatification and sainthood, and became a lay brother in a monastery, where he ended his days.

            The Church refers to the change from his previous behavior–porn addiction, giving a dozen different explanations of the murder (he did it, he didn’t do it, she rejected him, she didn’t reject him, she wouldn’t have rejected him if it hadn’t been for the priest’s teachings, etc.)–as a miracle.

            When the Church calls something a miracle, it’s an acknowledgement that things DON’T usually turn out that way.

          2. Saint anger. says:

            That’s ur experience. Statistics don’t matter wiv god, when he does a number on a person it’s dun 100% healed not half healed but healed. And I don’t mean nun of thectambori e nonsense laying on of hands and falling on the floor stuff either that u see in sum charismatic church’s. When God does a job on the narc or non narc they don’t get a say in the matter. When they see his power and the horror of what they r and the eternal void for em selves they cry out to him. It aint a rare occurrence either. Also when it happens they go back to the people they av hurt and make amends. How do u know that “it will never happen?” Saint Anger.

          3. Pale Horse says:

            St. Anger, maybe a more appropriate Metallica song for use as your screen name would be Welcome Home from the album Master of Puppets.

          4. Violetta says:

            Saint Anger:

            Could you translate?

            Chaucer’s spelling was more consistent than yours.

          5. Violetta says:

            This much I understood:

            “When God does a job on the narc or non narc they don’t get a say in the matter.”

            According to the Church, they have Free Will. God offers his Grace: they may accept or reject it.

        3. duchessbea says:

          Saint Anger, with the greatest of respect, are you smoking something? I really think you need a consult with HG. You are in the right place you just haven’t got a clue what you are talking about. HG will guide you in your knowledge and what articles will help you.

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        I tried to say this on another forum (just visiting) and they deleted my comment.

        Maybe it’s because I mentioned your name, HG! .

        Or maybe it was because I told a guy who said he was a narcissist that he couldn’t be one because apparently his wife was able to ‘control’ him and that’s the reason he would never have an affair.

        I told him if he was a narcissist she wouldn’t be able to control him and he wouldn’t care what she thought.

        He was trying to encourage people to stay in narcissistic relationships claiming he was one and a few ‘manipulative’ techniques on the part of his wife was what was keeping him in check. He was totally selling people down the river with that idea. The idea of playing games with narcissists.

        That’s why the first thing I did was mention your name. It seems some people don’t want the unique insight you have to offer. Who better to help people understand? This guy was an amateur.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for attempting to educate people LET. There is a lot of rubbish placed on the internet about narcissism, this is readily avoided by utilising this place for your knowledge, insight and freedom.

          1. Eternity says:

            HG, there really is a lot of trash out there and it is scary for people. They will then make more bad decisions on top of their current situation. It confuses people more and causes more anxiety.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            I absolutely agree, HG. He had no idea what he was talking about.

            It’s impossible for people to come to terms with narcissism if you don’t acknowledge even the basics. It’s harsh, but it’s also reality.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Correct

    2. Renarde says:

      MGM

      No, they cannot. Ever.

    3. MGM, sadly we all wish Narcs could be healed. But as you indirectly point out they are rewired differently to the rest of us. Unfortunately as I’ve said before, you can’t teach a cow to lay eggs any more than you can teach a narcissist to love. All you can do with any therapy/rewiring is teach them to be more manipulative and hide it better.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Correct

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          I keep saying it’s like trying to teach an empath not be an empath, or love. It’s impossible.

          It’s hard wired into us, so maybe looking at it that way provides a little more understanding.

        2. Saint anger. says:

          Correct in the natural yes through therapy I agree conclusively. Saint Anger

  17. December Infinity says:

    This is good to know in order to understand what factors have contributed to a person becoming a narcissist.

    1. Saint anger. says:

      No my comments hg state that their not ill founded cos 1). U ain’t said why their ill founded? Which is sloppy academia in not stating why. 2). U don’t av the answers. 3). That’s why u won’t let me reply under ur last comment and I’ve had to do it here. 4). Existentially u can’t disprove what I saw and u can’t disprove acts c9 wrong either wheresaul the murdering arc becums Saul the loving apostle empath. 5). Ur also getting frustrated to. Saint Anger.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I am hardly becoming frustrated with somebody who cannot use “you” or “you’re” or “becomes” or “they’re” correctly.
        It is not a case of me not letting you reply under the last comment at all.
        I know you are entirely mistaken and I have explained why this is the case repeatedly throughout my work. I recommend you do plenty of reading and gain an education.

        1. Saint anger. says:

          Oh I agree wiv u wiv therapy and counciling. But ur wrong wiv the supernatural hg, tell me this can u prove empiricly 100% that narcs cant be healed by God supernaturally? No u can’t so there’s the answer. U would av to go to every narc that has ever lived in human history over thousands of years who av had a supernatural encounter and been changed completely and reconnected to their empathetic true self. Ur operating from a secular model which is non-spiritual. Soz dude u can’t prove that the spiritual doesn’t exist and to bliertherly say go get ur self educated and read more books on it etc etc my paraphrase is just avoiding my questions. However I do agree wiv u in the natural concerning therapy and counselling for the narc, it won’t work and for umpteen reasons to. And so what bout spelling this is a blog site we r writing to each other on not an academic thesis. We’re not ere to get every jottle and jitle correct. Saint Anger.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Narcissists cannot be cured and to suggest to the contrary is grandiose, incorrect and misleading. You’ve expressed, I cannot use articulated, your view and you’re entitled to do so, but your view is misleading and must be corrected.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            I’m not sure if you think you are God’s stormtrooper, Saint Anger, but if you do I think you forgot your parachute and just went *splat*!

            No one is writing an academic thesis here (though some people are certainly qualified), but it seems like you’re not even trying to present a reasonable argument (leaving language aside).

            And where’s the love?

            Your choice of username says a lot.

      2. Renarde says:

        St Anger

        Hmm.

        Word to the wise. Don’t ever try to hide your intelligence. Ever. Especially not on here.

        And you are hiding it. Your intelligence.

        There are incredibly intelligent people on here. I am the most intelligent.

        One does not use text speak and in the sane sentence use the phrase, ‘sloppy academia’.

        You are not that smart. Give over. You are a semi-epsilon moron.

        Try harder.

        0/10

        1. Saint anger. says:

          The ability to speak doesn’t make u intelligent. I’m not intelligent im just the vessel, the lightning conducter in a manner of speaking. Who told u that u was intelligent? Answer, U did hg. Again the self delusion of the gilded cage. But of course narcs r like drug addicts wivout the supply they go cold turkey. The narc can’t live wivout the empath, but the empath can live wivout the narc when they wake up through pain and start to learn to use their tools. So it’s the narc that’s the slave and not the other way round. Always remember the mirror hg, and I don’t mean smoking mirrors but the mirror of the the heyoka empath. Did u study the heyoka empath as I requested hg old chap? Oh but we do use text speak and sloppy academia in one sentence. Why not? Ur abiding by rules again hg, u ain’t stepped outside of ur own culture to see the wiring beneath the circuit board and how culture works. U av no mapping system of the astral plane. Don’t u know a thing bout shamanism hg? That’s ur shatter point, ur chink in ur armour is u think that u a no chink in ur armour. Study derridas deconstructionism when it cums to using full sentences and short hand text speak wiv in sentences and how language and etymology changes through the centuries whist still retaing the origin of the root words. “if u define ur self by the intelligence to harm others and take from them as power, then u still avnt understood what real power is.”. And yes I’m a moron as u say, but I can be whatever u want me to be, u can feed off me to 4 supply, cos I av an endless amount of delicious fuel u can drink from but u can ever truly have me.” to av real power u av to let go of all ur power.” the shaman of the wills. Saint Anger

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You’re answering the wrong person. The reference to intelligence was made by Renarde, not me.

          2. Renarde says:

            St A

            I think the Double First probably nailed it for Hg. Oxbridge.

            You are a bizarre fruit. You’ve already been warned. I note with intrest you have ignored my sound and learned counsel.

            No, you are not intelligent. Although you percieve you are.

            This should be intresting…

          3. Renarde says:

            St Anger

            You aren’t a vessel. You are a vassal.

            Note the difference.

          4. Violetta says:

            Renarde:

            Vassals can be loyal and valuable to their liege lord.

            I’ve had it with this prose mashup of post-structuralist scholar Homi Bhabha and Da Ali G Show. Someone who uses the term “academia” while spelling “with” “w-i-v” is trying to pull a fast one. Didn’t Sherlock Holmes nail a character on something similar?

          5. Renarde says:

            Vi

            Do we have a Moriarty here?

            Hmm!

            [Theatrically twirls the moustache]

          6. lickemtomorrow says:

            Your lack of respect here is obvious.

            Not capitalizing HG’s initials is one sign of that.

            One of the first things to learn in terms of warfare is respect of your enemy. If you’re at war with HG, you’ve fallen at the very first hurdle.

          7. Mercy says:

            HG, You have proven once again how amazing you are by moderating and making sense of all of the “av, cos and wivs”. I wanted to see what was going on but couldn’t get past the 3rd sentence. It made my eyes hurt. It looks like my kids text when they were teenagers and had flip phones.

        2. Saint anger. says:

          Renarde do u mind if I ask u a question wiv all due respect to u my dear ‘what does it feel like inside in ur heart of hearts deep down in urgut to feel completely and utterly empty inside in aving nufink but a dark void chasam??’ Not a judgemental question, just a simple question. I’d like to know cos I av never felt that inside me what u narcs feel cos I’m a heyoka empath so I can’t empathise wiv that feeling, I can feel it from a narc but that’s me taking their shadow into me, but that’s their void and not my own void. So I would just like to know. I understand if u don’t want to answer. Saint Anger.

          1. Renarde says:

            St A

            First. Never refer to my as ‘Your Dear’. You have many roads to walk before you earn that priveledge. Hell, Boss has not earnt that one yet. [No offence Boss].

            Second question. I’m a high functioning Empath. Weaponised. Fully.

            Let’s repeat that for the clear peanut gallery. I’m an Empath. There is no void within me. No darkness. I live. I love. I learn. That’s it.

            If you doubt my words, ask Boss. He ‘diagnosed’ me.

            Now my question. What is a ‘Heyoka’ Empath? Sounds like utter toss to me.

            Fairs fair. Answer the question.

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Ok, St Anger,

            Might I suggest you are very sure of your facts before you start making accusations here as to who is a narcissist and who is not. You have been here what, two minutes? Already making suggestions that Renarde is a narcissist. If you had been here longer you would know that Renarde is far far from being a narcissist. Your comment is entirely unfounded and very unfair.
            I have no issue with you stating your opinion, none whatsoever, just check your facts before you take it upon yourself to start applying labels to the people here. A very entitled approach for someone so new to the blog.

          3. Renarde says:

            TS

            Thank you. That’s very kind. X

        3. Saint anger. says:

          “there is no try, there is only do.” the moment u say ‘I’ll try.’ u av already failed.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thanks Yoda.

          2. Renarde says:

            St A

            Might I recommend to your good self a book?

            Try the OED. Works wonders…

          3. Renarde says:

            Hg

            I am the Anti-Yoda!

            Pink lightsabre?

          4. duchessbea says:

            Very rude and disrespectful. HG and All were only trying to help you Saint Anger. I think you are on the wrong site. Anarchists Anonymous is somewhere else.

  18. Gina G says:

    He was in a B Grader family for sure.

  19. Whitney says:

    HG I can’t believe he said to me “you’re not as vulnerable as I thought you were” and he looked anxious, and said “I’m scared of you”.
    He was nuts.

    1. Another Cat says:

      Whitney,
      sounds like a projection and provocation in one. With the extra cheese on top.

      1. Whitney says:

        Omg Cat that’s so interesting

        1. Another Cat says:

          I recognise this scenario.

          The narc probably notice about you that you (like me) are often careful not to be intimidating? This he could use against you in devaluation. “I’m scared of you”

          They sure don’t use words like we do…

          1. Gina G says:

            I think it’s just projection. When I would accuse him of something such as being emotionally abusive, all of a sudden I was emotionally abusive. I also believe that we pick up some of the stuff that they’re doing, what do they call that reactive abuse? I certainly became someone I didn’t like when I was in a relationship with him. I said and did things I would not do with anybody else or say to anybody else.

    2. Leigh says:

      Hi Whitney, if I may interject,, my ex narc used to tell me all the time that he was scared of me. I remember asking Mr. Tudor about it once and he said it was blame shifting. That my ex narc blamed me for making him feel scared. Mr. Tudor’s book, Your Fault, really helped me with this concept. EVERYTHING is our fault.

  20. Saint anger. says:

    This is 100% spot on bout the birth of narcissism above hg. Like I said in a previous comment “stick a narc on a desert island alone for a few weeks they will eventually implode and wither and die.”. Or words to that effect. That’s why narcs r always the losers. That’s why I pity narcs, cold pity, but pity nonetheless. Saint Anger.

  21. privatejourney60 says:

    I differ from your calculation ‘Around one in six of the human population of this planet became narcissists in order to cope with this loss of control.’ Were religious leaders from Catholic priests to American evangelist preachers and televangelists included in the Narcissist matrix? How about the three powerful worldwide political leaders and their ‘Narc’ systemic maneuvering?

    As always, thank you for all that you (and your team) do and will continue to do.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is no team, there is just me.

      1. Violetta says:

        I’d say the Tudorites are something of an unofficial PR team, in that we try to guide people to the site and may list some of the pertinent articles on it, but we’re guests on someone else’s site (though one hopes, welcome guests). Anything we contribute will be comments in reaction to HG’s original article, answers to a survey, or letters to empaths/Narcissists that he has specifically elicited. We may put in the occasional request that HG write on a particular topic, with the understanding that he will follow his own agenda. This is not a Democracy, and I’m fine with that, although there are occasional visitors who seem to have a problem.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The support of my readers in terms of ideas and the sharing of my work and its endorsement is crucial and always appreciated.

          1. Violetta says:

            I’ve heard Just Harry reads (unhappily) negative comments about the Missus on the Daily Mail, so maybe we can get him here without a kidnap and a deprogramming.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            There is nowhere else like this place. For sharing thoughts, gaining the support of other empaths, and most uniquely gaining your insight, HG.

            You can go elsewhere and read people’s stories, hear their pain, have others acknowledge it and offer support, share their own stories around narcissism.

            But what is missing is you, HG.

            For the most part these people are honest, seeking answers and giving honest feedback. Some even say they are narcs wanting to change. Maybe.

            But the unique element of interacting with you here while having ‘the narcissist’ on our side …

            It is priceless.

    2. Renarde says:

      PJ60

      Hg is an Army of One.

      Which he scarcely stops mentioning every 30s.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I last mentioned being an army of one, when quoting the rules on 9th July 2020 and before that on 4th February 2020 and prior to that it was the 15th April 2019. A far greater interval than “every 30 seconds”.

        1. Renarde says:

          HG

          Well, you know best, Boss.

          Still every 30s though.

          Metaphorically speaking.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            That doesn’t even make any sense.

          2. Renarde says:

            Hg

            I apologise.

            I still love you x

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Apology accepted.

          4. Renarde says:

            Hg

            Thank you.

          5. Renarde says:

            To be fair though Hg, you are a very hard worker.

            Good work ethic. Like that.

            Pity more can’t be like you. And I mean that.

  22. Eternity says:

    It is a shame that Narcissist’s could have been prevented. Brilliant article and explains why the need for control

  23. Empath007 says:

    I’m having an “empath” issue.

    I don’t really know where to talk about it so I will talk about it here and if anyone would like to offer advice I’d sure appreciate it.

    My long time friend is getting married. I agreed to be in the bridal party before Covid hit. I thought she would cancel her wedding like most people are but she hasn’t.

    I’m unable to assert myself that I do not want to go ((due to Covid and the large number of people attending)And it’s only about a month away.

    I do not know If she’s a narc or not since we are long time friends who only really visit with each other once or twice a year. However I can say for sure she’s always been very low on empathy and does NOT want to hear peoples concerns. She’s pissed off at everyone else who won’t go because of covid and is only concerned with herself.

    I get this sick feeling in my stomach when I think about going to the wedding. Same feeling I got when the narc began to pursue me that I ignored.

    But I’m
    Not asserting myself and saying no.

    In a time like this, I try and ask myself, what would H.G. do ?

    Do I make up a believable lie to get out of it ?

    Do I GOSO ?

    I definitely can’t have a heartfelt conversation with her. She’s not the type to be receptive. That I know for sure.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. You do not wish to go for what appear to be legitimate concerns as per your comment
      a. You suspect she is a narcissist/narcissistic
      b. You have concerns re covid

      2. You have agreed to be in the bridal party. Therefore you have an obligation.

      3. You do not wish to attend, therefore you ought to let her know asap so that steps can be taken to replace you (if necessary) in the bridal party.

      4. If she is a narcissist, all the more reason not to go.

      5. Explain you are unable to attend owing to health concerns re the pandemic, which is the truth and is a legitimate basis for not attending. Prepare for incoming hoover (if she is a narcissist) by immediate implementation of a NCR. Reduce your ET through the imposition of immediate NCR as your ET will be working you over with guilt, by corrupting your empathic trait of honesty.

      Alternative approach. Attend, discharge your duty, embrace the free bar and implement GOSO thereafter.

      1. Empath007 says:

        I genuinely appreciate your reply HG. It means a lot to me you replied in such detail about it, I was not expecting that and it’s helpful because I’m genuinely struggling.

        I hate letting people down.

        For those who asked I am a bridesmaid. That’s my role in the wedding party.

        I drafted a message to her last night, the basic concept is :

        We’ve always been upfront, honest women… and even though this is upsetting for me to say, I do not feel comfortable attending the reception due to the large amount of guest coming.

        I mention that I understand planing a wedding is stressful
        In ideal conditions. That I know she feels like bombs are dropping all around her but I need to do what’s besf for me.

        I then offer to either A) sell my dress to a potential replacent or B) only attend the ceremony and pictures as that is with a small group.

        Once again thanks everybody.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Too wishy washy. Make the decision, explain it politely and succinctly, be done with it.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            I’d go with this:

            Dear …

            We have been friends for a long time and I was delighted when you asked me to be your bridesmaid.

            Unfortunately, I’m going to have to disappoint you on this occasion due to the current pandemic and will be unable to attend.

            I hope you and … have a wonderful day and look forward to hearing all about it.

            With love,

            That way you’re acknowledging the long term friendship and its consequence (of being offered to be a bridesmaid which is generally considered an honour). You are letting her know the reason you can’t attend, but also acknowledging her potential disappointment. In order to wish her well and not cut off ties you are also offering to hear about her big day after the event to help assuage any disappointment and maintain the excitement of the occasion.

            She will be upset. There’s no two ways about it. But it won’t be the end of the world. For her or for you. She is thinking about herself and you must do the same.

          2. Empath007 says:

            I’m Not good at that… this is the whole problem. I’m a text
            Book empath.
            Guilt eats me alive.

            I haven’t said anything to her so I feel like it’s going to be a total shock. So I feel
            Like I should explain ??

            Fuck.
            I’m terrible at making big decisions some times.

            Classic co dependant. I don’t say what I mean and I don’t mean what I says.

      2. Empath007 says:

        My other thought is I say nothing… attend the ceremony and pictures,
        Eat at the head table….
        And then just slink off into the nignt… never to be seen again 😂😂

    2. Eternity says:

      Hi Empath 007,
      My uncle owns and operates a banquet hall. They have strict measures for indoor and outdoor events. There are certain number of people allowed at the wedding with wearing masks indoors.
      Yout friend is probably very upset that this happened over Covid 19 and does have the option to change her dates but some people have lost their deposit.
      This is your choice whether you want to go or not and you shouldn’t feel pressured into doing so.
      Tell her how you feel and I am sure lots of people wont be attending as well.
      If you decide to go make your appearance eat, have a few drinks and leave .
      We are going through some tough times with this virus you don’t need to feel this way.
      Good luck with your decision Empath007 I am sure you will make the right one.💓

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Empath 007,

        Are you in the high risk group for COVID?

        1. Empath007 says:

          I’m not but for me that is really not the point. While she is allowed to make whatever decision she feels is best… I can not morally agree with her decision to go ahead with this as if everything is normal.

          Everyone (meaning my personal friends) made me feel guilty when I was trying to explain my feelings that the narc I dated seemed like bad news at first. I felt obligated to ignore my better judgment and “go along” with it…

          I can’t “go along” with this… it’s a pandemic.
          It’s not a hoax.

          I’ve made a promise to myself that I need to honour how I feel despite how it makes others feel. I feel like I will be letting myself down if I don’t stand up for
          What I believe here.

          Change sucks and it’s hard. But old me would go to the wedding just to make
          Someone else happy. New me wants me to be happy.

          So I’m struggling. This is not easy.

          1. Eternity says:

            Empath007, you do what you think is right for you ! Health is so important if we dont have that we have nothing !. Try not to be upset with yourself and your friend should be be more understanding and shouldn’t act like Bridezilla.
            You are right this is a pandemic and we should treat it like one.
            Better to be safe than sorry and you choose to be safe .
            Take care of yourself hun.

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Empath 007,

            I’m wondering if perhaps you could do the ceremony and not the reception? Your proximity within the ceremony would likely be more regulated than the reception. That’s what I’m thinking. Once you all leave the church, job done. Your role in the ceremony is likely more important to her than your presence at the reception.

            Depends on your stance on Covid and your personal concerns.
            Only you know how you feel, what’s right for one won’t be right for another. Don’t feel guilty about your decision though. Your view on it and your approach should be respected.

          3. alexine99 says:

            Hi Empath007 my gut feeling is this bride is going to be in a state about many things not being perfect on her wedding day. It’s her 15 min of fame….The sooner you cut to the chase and tell her you are unable to attend due to COVID etc the better.
            I have a lot of experience dealing with brides…and they are always insanely preoccupied with themselves…no one else.
            She may blow up at you but will then move on to the next thing to flip out about. She can still get married even if she has one less bridesmaid standing up and attending to her….right?
            The whole wedding and event scenario for this summer is totally unpredictable. Excusing yourself under the circumstances is not unreasonable in the slightest.
            Good luck.
            A

      2. Empath007 says:

        She is holding it on private property…. so she can do whatever she wants and is not concerned with protocol.

        Let’s put it this way.., she hung up on her 80 year old grandmother when she told her it was too risky to attend…

        Her numbers do fall within outdoor guidelines though for our area.

    3. blackcoffee30 says:

      “You have agreed to be in the bridal party. Therefore you have an obligation.” Your obligation extends to informing her you are UNABLE to attend. You want to die for someone who won’t be bothered by your sudden COVID passing? Dead empaths feel nothing. Don’t go.

    4. truthseeker6157 says:

      Also, When you say bridal party, what is your role 007?

      Don’t say spy. Ha ha.

    5. NarcAngel says:

      Empath007
      HG has given you the best advice (that includes options), but I’ll give you my two cents anyway.

      I said no to being in the bridal party to my own sister before Covid (simply didn’t want to which apparently is much worse than saying you don’t want to die from Covid), so you can do this. The world will not end (for you or her), but your health (or that of others) could be seriously compromised. You do need to tell her right away and she won’t be happy. So what? You see her once or twice a year, she has little empathy and no concern for the decisions and safety of others.

      It does not sound like a friendship but more a long term obligation. What will you really be losing?

      1. Empath007 says:

        Thanks NA. This answer is helpful and means a lot to me.

    6. Violetta says:

      Empath007:

      This is what I would do. (If HG says it’s a bad plan, don’t follow it.)

      Get the flu. Now. Leave a message saying you think you have the flu in a terribly hoarse voice, and you knew you had to let her know as soon as possible. Screen your calls, and make sure you either let it go to voicemail and call back, or consistently croak out out “Hello?” when you pick up if it’s her, mutual friends, or an unrecognized number.

      Doesn’t have to be Covid, and I’d actually recommend just saying flu. You can even say it’s too mild to get officially tested. (I didn’t, when I probably had it in March. I also didn’t actually have a sore throat: just low fever, incredibly tired, and reduced my sense of smell possibly permanently.) You talked to a doctor over the phone, and he/she said not to come into the office (they are reducing office visits to avoid transmitting it), just to treat it with bed rest and fluids as usual, unless it becomes severe enough to go to an emergency room, but that you should self-isolate to avoid contaminating other people. Tell her you don’t want to take a chance of giving it to her in case it’s not just an ordinary 1-week flu, because you’ve been having diarrhea, kind of embarrassing. (Don’t forget to croak through all this. Or forget the sore throat and just have intestinal flu.)

      My guess is while she will be furious at you for daring to get sick on her special day, she also won’t want to risk getting the runs in her designer gown. (She probably won’t care that a mild case in you could translate to a nasty death for Great Uncle Hubert or Great Aunt Hattie.)

      If she’s nasty as she sounds, she may terminate the friendship, in which case, don’t forget to pray for the Groom while you’re thanking God this bitch is out of your life.

    7. Asp Emp says:

      You could offer to send a life-sized cardboard cut-out of yourself? But alas, not be there in person.

      Seriously, you do not need to put yourself in a position for the reasons as HG has replied. Covid has killed a lot of people. You don’t know how Covid would impact you. That’s a valid reason in itself. It’s also an honest reason.

      Do not feel you have to go. Put yourself first. Do not feel bad about any decision you make.

  24. Sharyn says:

    Excellent article HG, as always – however, what separates us from animals – we both eat, sleep, think, and communicate – perhaps it’s our ability for complex reasoning, use of complex language and ability to solve difficult problems through introspection (thoughts and feelings)…mmmm – your thoughts – or is Narc just a third species?!
    Sharyn

    1. HG Tudor says:

      We are Homo sapiens like you, but with differences.

      1. Saint anger. says:

        Homo sapien hg is an evolutionary term evolution has never been proved empiricly at observational or historical level. Saint Anger.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Homo sapiens is latin and is a term used for a species of human. Its existence is proven by archaeological and scientific material. Whilst you are naturally entitled to hold views with regard to creationism they will not find favour here by reasons of accuracy and this being material about narcissism. If I am mistaken, from your comments so far, that you do not subscribe to creationism, then I will leave you to pretending to be a Sith Lord.

          1. Saint anger. says:

            No evolutionist has never been proved my friend not once. No I’m nota flat earthed either. Regardless of a Latin term its still used for evolutionary terms. However ur right this aint the place to debate the 2 theories of evolution-creationism. No I ain’t a sith lord. If u were to describe me I star wars terms I’d be a grey jedi or sentient jedi, their the dudes that used the yellow light sabers. A balance of the light and dark, a maverick

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I see. Thank you for the correction with regard to your Jedi status, may I recommend you correct your email address then?

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Saint anger appears to spend a lot of time in his room with his fleshsaber.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Brilliant

          5. Renarde says:

            Don’t make me bring out Darth Renardus…

          6. Eternity says:

            HG, are we studying Anthropology?
            Ha ha

    2. Renarde says:

      Sharyn

      Homo Sapiens are mammals. This means there are seven, specific characteristics which divide us from birds or reptiles for example.

      Respiration, perspiration, live young, body heat etc

      And I hate Biology.

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