When Narcissists Collide : Trump Vs Biden



What do you get when an Upper Lesser Type B Narcissist collides with an Upper Mid Range Narcissist on television?

A bitter and chaotic 2020 US Presidential “debate”.

America : You Are being Conned


The fact is that many politicians and most political leaders are narcissists. It is a circular environment. To survive the political environment the skill set and mentality of the narcissist is the most effective. This then draws more and more politicians to that world which means in order to survive it, you are best off being a narcissist and on it goes. Not every leader is a narcissist and there are some notable exceptions (who they are and which ones are narcissists can be found in these links along with famous examples from other fields and genres, dive in, you will find confirmation and surprise – The Naughty Forty,

50 Further Famous Narcissists (inc When Famous Narcs Collide) ,  The Weighty Eighty (The Famous Analysed), 50 Famous Narcissists or Not? , The Shifty Fifty : 50 Famous Narcissists )

Last night, two political narcissists faced off. The incumbent, President Donald Trump who is an Upper Lesser Type B engaged in a televised metaphorical food fight with presidential candidate Joe Biden who is an Upper Mid Range narcissist. If you are unfamiliar with my categorisations of the different schools of narcissists then you can learn more about them here . However, I will give you a brief overview of the differing nature of these two individuals who are both narcissists.

President Trump does not know that he is a narcissist. He has no awareness at all. He is self-entitled, has an unwavering conviction that he is always right and anybody or anything else that challenges his perception of being right is, well wrong (“Fake news!”). He is not subtle at all. He is bold, brash, bullying and a braggart. Such traits serve him well in certain situations and create significant problems in others. He has no emotional empathy. He is right, if you do not agree you are wrong and your views count for nothing. He is right and if you disagree you will be ignored, shouted over or removed from your position. He is right and his narcissism rewrites history, conveniently ignores anything to the contrary and creates in him his wrecking ball mentality. He is arrogant, superior, utterly convinced of his effectiveness (“I am the expert”) and he does not hide his behaviour behind a facade. He will suggest grabbing your pussy or that she be locked up and if you do not like it, well too bad, because he is right and you are wrong, so hit the road Jack!  He knows he is going to solve everything and if you suggest he cannot, you are wrong and if you say it has not been solved, well, you do not know what you are talking about because you belong to the fake news media. Anything which challenges him is written off as incorrect, slanderous, invented and not worthy of a second glance. He steamrolls through everything and his black and white thinking, shared by all narcissists, is so apparent through his vocabulary of somethings being “great, great, really great” or “awful, horrible, really bad.” You are either with him or you are against him. Trump is belligerent and he does not care, he is of the view that he will upset some people but that is their problem. He knows that some people need to be told they are wrong and his style is direct and bombastic but he regards it as effective.  He subscribes to the position of you cannot make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

Presidential candidate Joe Biden does not know that he is a narcissist. He has no awareness at all. He is self-entitled, has an unwavering conviction he is always right, he is arrogant and can be haughty. He does operate a facade whereby his narcissism behaves whereby it has cultivated, on his behalf, an appearance of being decent, caring someone who is fighting “for the soul of the United States”. Whereas Trump is brash and in your face, Biden is more measured but that does not mean you will not see that fury from time to time. He will snap and he will lash out, but that aspect to his narcissism will not appear anywhere near as often as Trump´s haughtiness owing to the operation of the facade. Biden is of a greater level of intelligence which is part of the reason why he  is classified as Upper Mid Range. Whereas Trump is direct and to the point, Biden´s Mid Range classification means he is prone to long-windedness, self-indulgent monologues based on his perception of self-importance. He has no emotional empathy, he does have cognitive empathy so he is able to give the impression that he cares, but it is artificial. It is a means of asserting control and achieving The Prime Aims . He has at times demonstrated a degree of polish, he is not polished in his performances but can exhibit a degree of polish, part of being the Upper Mid Range Narcissist. Biden is prone to showing entitlement and a lack of awareness through his remarks but retains the Mid-Range belief that he did not mean to offend. He is able to understand why people may get upset by the things that he says and does (whereas Trump does not and more importantly he does not care because he knows he is right), but he did not intend for that to happen but the fact is he still made a haughty observation or a self-entitled observation without  any emotional empathy for its impact. He is blinded to the offence caused, some of the time, but can understand it after the event but only does so as part of false contrition in order to maintain control. There is more passive aggressive behaviour about Biden, but as an Upper Mid-Range Narcissist you will see flashes of rage and haughtiness based on self-perceived notions of superiority commensurate with the mindset of the narcissist.

This article is not here to discuss the comparative rights or wrongs of President Trump or Joe Biden, you can make your own minds up about that. Instead, this article provides you with insight into explaining for you why the behaviours you witnessed, if you watched the debate or read about it , happened as they did. I do this because nobody else in the media is explaining this for you. People may be unimpressed by the performance of the two individuals, they may criticise the lack of statesman like behaviour, they may question the lack of serious policy debate or they may feel the exchange made a mockery of a serious political matter, but what the majority of people do not realise is this – you were watching what happens when two narcissists collide.

You may think this debate was about who becomes POTUS. You may think that this was a show down between two politicians each trying to persuade the swing voters to vote for them. You may think that this was an exercise in demonstrating ability or fitness for office. Those things and more besides are what you are given to understand is happening. Indeed, it is what these unaware narcissists also believe they were doing, but it was not.

These two narcissists were seeking to achieve The Prime Aims and chief amongst those Prime Aims what Trump and Biden were seeking (but they did not know this because it is happening in their unconscious) is that they are seeking fuel (basically the emotional response of others) and control.

They want to assert control over each other, the audience in the studio, the audience watching on television, the audience that will watch repeats or extracts on the news, the audience that will write about the debate, the journalists, the bloggers, the people discussing it over coffee, by the water cooler, the radio host analysing it on the drive programme. Trump and Biden wanted that control because that is what their narcissism wants and must have; control and fuel.

The reason there was such a collision is because Trump must control Biden and Biden must control Trump. When Biden is criticising Trump´s handling of the Covid-19 pandemic he is threatening  Trump´s control. When this happens, Trump´s narcissism will not stand idly by, it must do something, so it causes Trump to respond by interrupting Biden as he seeks to assert control over Biden. If Trump was a Mid Range or Greater Narcissist he would have interrupted far less, indeed, possibly not at all and instead showed apparent good grace and manners by allowing Biden to speak and then he would have responded to the threat to his control by providing an answer which would seek to assert control over Biden by rejecting his attempt to control Trump. The response might be a polished one, made in an articulate manner referencing statistics or perhaps recalling some error on the part of Biden to demonstrate hypocrisy (hypocrisy being prevalent amongst narcissists). However, Trump is an Upper Lesser Type B  – a belligerent bruiser. So he has not time for letting the other person speak, he does not do polish, he goes for the jugular and is the pugilist that his narcissism makes him.

Such debates can be heated and impassioned. Some debates are where the relevant narcissist maintains an iron-rod of control, responding with glacial coolness, deftly scoring political points, using intellect and experience to preserve their facade whilst asserting control over their opponent. Deferential responses, supposedly respectful replies all done from within the facade but still seeking to assert control. Such performances come across to the unwitting viewer as professional, polished and statesmanlike. Where the responses are measured but passionate, the viewer sees a person committed to the cause, a believer in the principles of their political persuasions, but even so that individual, where he or she is a narcissist, is still seeking to assert control.

Given the two schools of narcissist that Trump and Biden are, the debate became chaotic and fractured. This is no surprise. Every time Trump sought to assert control over Biden, Biden´s narcissism caused him to respond by rejecting that attempt by asserting his own attempt over Trump. Biden´s response thus threatened Trump´s sense of control and thus he has to reject it. What you witnessed was a tennis match of manipulation and counter manipulation all in the name of control and fuel. Furthermore, their narcissism was fighting to assert control over one another AND at the same time was seeking to assert it over those asking the questions, those listening and watching. You believe the political stakes are very high – the control stakes were even higher.

What were some of the key moments from the debate and what was really going on?

  • Both candidates talked over one another. This was naturally each candidate trying to assert control over the other, failing to exhibit emotional empathy (since they have none) by showing patience and excellent listening skills, having no boundary recognition and acting out of self-entitlement. All hallmarks of narcissists.
  • President Trump interrupted Joe Biden 73 times. Trump will not respect the boundary of Biden´s observations, he has no truck with politely waiting his turn, his narcissism demands immediate action and interrupting someone, despite it being ill-mannered and impolite does not matter. In Trump´s world Biden needed to be interrupted because Biden was wrong and was talking nonsense. What was actually happening was that Trump needed to interrupt Biden to assert control over him.
  • President Trump repeatedly hectored Biden when the two discussed healthcare. Again, Trump´s need for control means he can talk when he talks (entitlement), he does not recognise the boundary of remaining silent to allow his opponent to speak, his lack of emotional empathy manifests in being rude and haranguing.
  • In response to this threat to control, Biden´s facade repeatedly fractured because of the level of sustained threat to the control. Ordinarily, the narcissism seeks to preserve the facade AND assert control, so a narcissist will not slap his wife at the dinner party, he will whisper a threat to her only she can hear to bring her under control whilst smiling at the rest of the table and preserving the facade. However, when there is a clash between control and the facade, control must win and thus the facade will be repeatedly fractured as was the case with Biden, hence his retort of calling Trump a “clown” (Verbal Insult). Hardly empathic respectful behaviour by calling POTUS a clown and evidence of his haughtiness driven by his narcissistic need for control.
  • When Biden was asked about expanding the number of Supreme Court judges, this challenged his control. In this instance, his narcissism selected Deflection and Silent Treatment as he refused to give an answer. This response was caused by his narcissism wanting to get control back.
  • Biden´s facade was fractured again under Trumps´repeated interruptions and hectoring which affected his control as he lashed out with “Will you shut up, man?” Hardly the behaviour of a political statesman and demonstrates how even the facade of an Upper Mid-Range Narcissist can give way under sustained threats to control. He followed up with “Keep yapping man.” (Contempt and Verbal Insult)
  • Trump resorted to Verbal Insult himself when responding to these threats to his control by goading Biden by describing Biden as having achieved nothing in 47 years of politics. A haughty and dismissive retort, sweeping away a lifetime of political involvement, but Trump does not care, his narcissism needed control and it was going after it in a direct fashion.
  • Trump´s control was threatened when he was asked if he was going to denounce the far-right group Proud Boys. Trump was not going to do so because such denouncing would have conceded control to the questioner and conceded control within the electorate at large Instead, his narcissism opted for him answering with “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by, but I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left.” (Flattery and Deflection) He rejected the threat to his control by the question and asserted control over the Proud Boys with his remark, his narcissism was not going to let him lose control over part of his likely supporters.
  • Trump was asked if he would encourage his supporters to be peaceful if results of the election were unclear. “I’m encouraging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully,” he responded. This question threatened his control by suggesting that POTUS was someone who would support potentially unlawful action to reject an unclear election outcome. Trump dealt with it through another deflecting answer and then asserting control over his supporters by issuing an instruction to them, denoting his grandiosity in maintaining that his supporters will follow his instructions.
  • When Trump said Biden would be at the behest of the left of the Democratic Party over health and environmental policy,  this was again an assertion of control over Biden and a threat to his control. Mr Biden responded: “I am the Democratic Party right now”. This is an excellent example of the arrogant grandiosity of an Upper Mid Range Narcissist and evidences the narcissist dynamic of seeing others as an extension of himself. Biden regards himself as the Democratic Party and his response was an assertion of control through superiority and a rejection of Trump´s challenge.
  • Trump waded in with another Provocation through Insult by getting personal. He brought up the past drug use of Biden’s son, Hunter, who was discharged from the navy in 2014 for taking cocaine. This challenge to control again rattled the facade of Mr Biden causing him to shout over  Trump, (Entitlement) Biden said: “My son, like a lot of people, like a lot of people you know at home, had a drug problem. He’s overtaken it. He’s fixed it.”
  • Biden said Trump had “panicked” over the coronavirus pandemic, which has killed more than 200,000 Americans.”A lot of people died and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter, a lot quicker,” Biden said (Provocation, Insult). Trump objected to Biden using the word “smart.” Trump fought back against that threat to his control with “You graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class,” the president said. “Don’t ever use the word smart with me. Don’t ever use that word.” (Insult, Threat).

This bickering and haranguing went back and forth and meant that any substantive discussion was largely lost. Reaction around the world to the debate generally summed it up as an unedifying experience which portrayed American politics in a poor light with the repeated mud-slinging, interruptions, heckling and insults.

What none of the media outlets did was explain why it panned out as it did. The debate was this way because two narcissists fought repeatedly to assert control and to reject threats to their control alongside gathering fuel. They chiefly behaved in this manner towards one another but also with regard to the wider audience. Understand that this is what is driving their behaviours and it provided you with an excellent example of what happens when two narcissists of their schools collide. Digest it and understand it, because you will be getting more of this in the weeks ahead.

America : You Are being Conned

Please share this article to allow people to understand what is at the heart of the Presidential election and to allow people to gain understanding of narcissism as a whole



431 thoughts on “When Narcissists Collide : Trump Vs Biden

  1. MommyPino says:

    It looks like Hunter Biden might be a paedophile as well. Giuliani just turned over photos and text messages from his laptop where there were sexualized children. There was a text to Joe Biden where Hunter was saying that his sister in law told his therapist that he was FaceTiming nude with a 14 year old and she wouldn’t see him again because he behaviors are not safe for the kids. If there’s any person that I would wish death upon it would be the paedophiles. I hope he isn’t one.

    1. Fieke says:

      Yes MommyPino, I agree, but also they are just as incurable as other disorders that abuse people.

      There are pedosexuals and pedophiles. The first being making the choice of acting upon their desires, the second does not act and also does not chooses the desire.

      They are not in love with an individual , when the child ages above a certain age..usual about 13! they lose interest. So it is per definition not love. Ever.

      But although texting with teenagers is despicable and a serious lack of judgement and a lack or absent of empathy and still very much abuse (!!) it is actually is not pedophilia in the true sense. Not in science. In politics it can be different.
      15 years of age, was even the marrying age in many countries. It is more a cultural choice. But if the age gap between the youngster under 20 and the partner is to large it is definitely a red flag for narcissism!
      But not pedophilia.

      But pedosexuals are so rapped up in their own distorted thinking it is like talking to a brick wall. I have no idea why and how this disorder comes to be ( and not even the pedophiles, because maybe that is just a shitty wiring of the brains, but the pedosexuals, with no empathy. So I do wish death upon them and I don’t at the same time, but please lock them up for the rest of their lives. They are incurable

      1. mommypino says:

        Thank you Fieke. Your response to me is very informative. I have never heard of the term pedosexual before and I just lump everybody into the pedophile category.

        My grandmother was 14 when she married my grandfather when he was a widower at 36. She was arranged to be married to him. I think it was in the twenties in my home country in Asia. The times were different and my grandfather was actually remembered to be empathic and a good father by every single person that knew him. But my grandmother didn’t seem to have loved him in a romantic sense but she cared about him and respected him. And in my home country I was used to seeing many teenagers starting from 15 drop out of our school because they got pregnant although they were involved with someone around the same age as them and I didn’t think much of it. But I remember when I was a teenager I thought that an older man showing interest in me sexually is pretty gross and repulsive. I would never want my kids exposed to anything like that during any time of their childhood.

        I am so uncomfortable at the thought of anyone being sexually attracted to a child even when they do not engage in sex with children because it is hard to trust that they will never do it if the chance is there. Also, I am bothered about children being sexualized online, even if it’s just their nude pictures and they don’t get raped because it is still abusive to them and lowering their dignity as a child. I totally understand what you mean with “I do wish death upon them and I don’t at the same time.” I feel that way too but there are some cases when I really feel that someone would serve better purpose as a fertilizer.

        You are totally correct that it is incurable. I personally believe that all pedophiles are narcissists but not all narcissists are pedophiles. None of the narcissists in my life were ever interested sexually in kids and were actually disgusted at behaviors like that.

    2. MommyPino says:

      Delaware Police just forwarded the stuff Giuliani submitted to the FBI because they said they already have an investigation going on.

      FBI just announced that Hunter Biden’s laptop is involved in a money laundering investigation.

      It will be interesting to see if all of this goes away magically if Biden wins.

    3. MommyPino says:

      I think this might be a Twin Lone of Defense (denial and then character assassination).

      This was from a reporter Bo Erickson of CBS:

      “ Biden has refused to comment about the laptop story, which was first reported by the New York Post last week, besides calling it a “smear campaign.”

      “I asked Joe Biden: What is your response to the NYPost story about your son, sir?” Bo Erickson, a campaign reporter for CBS, tweeted Friday.

      “He called it a ‘smear campaign’ and then went after me. ‘I know you’d ask it. I have no response, it’s another smear campaign, right up your alley, those are the questions you always ask,'” Erickson continued.

      Another reporter asked him about Hunter’s emails while the other reporters where asking him about his choice of ice cream and Biden just walked away which is a usual Mid Ranger response.

  2. Sweetest Perfection says:

    Lily, I can’t believe the chair of a R1 SC would behave in such an unprofessional manner while conducting a search. They should never tell any side information like that to a candidate to raise their hopes. Unfortunately, Academic Wiki is full of horror stories of malpractice during campus interviews and searches. I have many myself. For example, I was recently interviewed to be chair of a large department in a university I really liked, not far from where I live. The search chair was extremely supportive and, like in your case, was giving me clues that I was the popular candidate. We actually spent an hour inside a car parked outside my hotel discussing strategies to enhance one of the department’s programs. I was dying inside, after a three-day campus interview of meeting with faculty and administration, giving my public speech, then meeting for lunch then meeting graduate students. That was the last night, I had only fifteen minutes to take a quick shower and get ready for dinner with the committee, and there I was, trapped in a car without being able to get in my hotel room. Everything went well though. The public talk was well received, I answered their questions efficiently and providing well-founded data, one of the attendants even screamed enthusiastically that she had been expecting some of those ideas for a long time. The assistant chair told me confidentially he expected I got the job because we got along very well and he was looking forward to working with me. Another member of the committee told me confidentially to remember to maintain a certain policy for faculty when I became chair. Three days after the interview was over, I received a package from one of the professors in the department with whom I share research interests with one of his books and a signed note. I sent the customary thank you email to the relevant people. And then, big red flag: all of them responded warmly, but I didn’t get any response from the dean. My gut already knew. Two months later (!) I got an angry and frustrated message from the search chair trying to justify in a way that, unbeknownst to everyone, the dean had already offered the job to the internal candidate without notifying anybody, and they just learned this person was gonna be their new chair. My reaction, as usual, was to see the silver lining in this. Well, I didn’t get the job, but the department wanted ME. Politics sucks. That’s why I said you were not rejected, there’s always something that escapes your control. You can only keep shining and doing what you think is best. I wish I could tell you some personal information but this is not the perfect venue. I, like you, ended here because of one of those smooth talkers of academia, whose research focus was “oh, so-synced-with-mine-because-we-are-so-connected-my ass.” Yep, I know them. They are everywhere, but mostly, among the theoreticians that talk about gender, race, power dynamics. Add a little touch of poetry and I’m yours. I was an easy target in this world of pretense and status. But not anymore.

    1. lisk says:

      SP, I don’t trust that search chair.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        It doesn’t matter now, Lisk. Once it’s over, I move on.

        1. HG Tudor says:


        2. lisk says:

          Yes, I see (in the detailed, lengthy paragraph you wrote about this).

          Anyway, I was only pointing out for others that it’s important to be wary of the person one might be trusting most in these situations.

          Logic would say: Don’t be trapped in a car alone with an “extremely supportive” anybody who keeps you from doing what you need to do to progress.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hahaha Lisk! She is a reputable professor, straight, married, and old. And they need to drive you to and off campus during the interview (because of parking passes, being familiar with the location, etc), it’s common protocole. But yes, it wasn’t a comfortable situation.

          2. lisk says:

            I said nothing about the gender of the person, as I noticed you did not mention it. I said nothing about any kind of sexual thing, either. It’s the holding someone up or back that I didn’t like about it. As I visualized your description (yes, sans gender), I guess I felt trapped, too. And I didn’t like it! (And I can totally see my former female narc boss doing something like that deliberately, while she also sucked my brains out for ideas that she couldn’t come up with herself.)

            Anyway, it sounds like it was all for the best in the end, and maybe she helped you not be trapped in something worse.

        3. Violetta says:

          Smart move, Sweet P. It’s like an audition. Sometimes you can find something to work on , i.e., that song is in the wrong key, or I need to be more warmed up before I sing it, or this monologue is getting stale.

          Other times, however, they had a particular type in mind, and if you don’t have that look, there was nothing you could have done. You can wear wigs, etc., but if they want someone short and perky, and you’re tall and willowy, or vice versa, that’s it. Or if you remind the casting people of someone they don’t like.

          I had one Early Childhood phone interview where I thought of a better answer to a question afterwards, and used it when the next interviewer asked it. I can think of at least one place where I felt terribly awkward the whole time. Afterwards, I looked up their reviews, and there were a lot of disgruntled current and former employees. I was desperate for a job, but when a friend said I should thank God I didn’t get that one, he was right. The center I am at now got great reviews from both staff and parents. The only complaints from staff were sometimes having to spell someone else in a different age group or on a different shift, which is pretty mild compared to the first one, where former staff were talking about hlthe director’s favorites getting to take ridiculously long breaks or even having obvious substance abuse problems. Even allowing for exaggerations, I felt a weird vibe while I was there.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Exactly, Violetta. In between that interview and today I lined up two more interviews in more desirable locations (though the process has been halted for the time being due to covid), and I have already spotted a position that is a dream come true and I’m preparing my application package. The former university with the connected internal candidate, on the other hand, persisted in opening normally and reported nearly 300 contagions within the first two weeks. I indeed am grateful I didn’t get that job. I never look back, always forward. And stick to the present, which is all we have.

          2. lisk says:

            RE: “weird vibe”

            I’m learning to pay more attention to weird vibes instead of suppressing them and telling myself “Oh, you’re just being paranoid”—like I used to do.

            I’d rather make the mistake of wrongly identifying someone as a narcissist than being in the same old situation again and again.

  3. MommyPino says:

    So Biden cancels all in person events until after the next debate. Some people speculate it’s because he wants to avoid the questions about Hunter Biden’s laptop. (Narcissist asserting control)

    Included in the laptop is a text message Hunter Biden sent to his daughter:

    “But I don’t receive any respect and that’s fine I guess. Works for you, apparently. I hope you all can do what I did and pay for everything for this entire family for 30 years. It’s really hard, but don’t worry, unlike Pop (Joe Biden) I won’t make you give me half your salary.”

    My guess is Hunter is an Upper Lesser. He also seems to be talking about giving a some kind of commission to his dad. Some accusations against them allege that they used Joe Biden’s political position and power to gain money from scrupulous deals. I remember years ago thinking Joe Biden was an upright idealistic person with a self deprecating sense of humor. Interesting how amazing his facade is. Definitely an UMR. You are totally accurate HG!

  4. Liza says:

    Befor reading this article i wouldn’t have guessed that Biden was a narcissist, i thought that he just lost his composure due to president Trump’s agrssif tone, it is frightening how “normal” midrangers can seem.

    The best moment was when the journalist told Trump to stop interrupting and he sulked and said ,then tell him to stop too, it felt like when i tell my little couisns to stop fighting and they start arguing about who started it.

  5. Violetta says:

    Because the Republicans have no monopoly on sleaziness….

    DM headline:

    “Joe Biden facing questions as his doctor son-in-law advises his campaign on COVID at same time as running investment firm putting money into healthcare startups”

  6. Lala says:

    I wouldn’t vote for either of them.

    What would Pamela Anderson do?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Behave like a narcissist.

      1. Violetta says:

        The tangerine board shorts are back!
        Oh frabjous day
        Calloo! Callay!
        I chortled in my joy.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Beware the Jabberwock, my friend!

          1. Violetta says:

            One, two, one two!
            And through and through
            My KTN goes snicker-snack
            The narcs are done
            No fuel they won
            I’m armed for their attack!

  7. Violetta says:

    From DM:

    President Donald Trump said he will not participate in a debate with Democratic nominee Joe Biden in a ‘virtual’ format

     ‘That’s not accessible to us. I beat him easily in the first debate,’ Trump said Thursday morning

    He added: ‘No, I’m not gonna waste my time in a virtual debate. That’s not what debating is all about,’ he said. ‘You sit behind a computer and do a debate – it’s ridiculous and then they cut you off whenever they want.’

    So he thinks a debate is about who can shout the loudest? If that’s the case, Axel Rose should be president.

    1. Another Cat says:

      Always wondered why I enjoy the song ‘Patience’ so much, Violetta. Gives me cravings to hear someone with that much decibel keeping it low-key. A concept from another universe, to Trump

      1. Violetta says:


        That was one of the few good things about my last term with FU. It was a long drive there and back everyday, and one day “November Rain” came on, and they played Slash’s psychotic guitar jam at the end, which some stations are blasphemous enough to cut. And it was November, it was cold, and it was raining.

        It was one of those perfect moments, like the outdoor Phish concert where they started playing “Story of the Ghost” just as the wind picked up and I saw my first lightning bolts (the East Coast is pretty much limited to sheet lightning, thanks to various forms of pollution, including light pollution). Up til then I had thought the lightning bolts in things like Scooby Doo were just an artist’s convention, like light bulbs over the head of someone getting an idea.

      2. Violetta says:

        Another Cat:

        Keegan Messing just did an amazing ice skating routine to “November Rain” for the ISU Grand Prix competition–complete with jam at end.

  8. Violetta says:

    New suggested campaign slogan:

    He is STRONG.
    He is BATSHIT.

  9. Violetta says:

    It’s scary how easy it is to apply lessons from Tudor Towers. Everyone is marveling at Trump’s delaying the next stimulus package until after his supposed reelection. Effect of Covid drugs? Why did he leave the hospital so soon, when 7-10 days after first symptoms can be the worst time? Why was he working out the stimulus deal the night before, but now he’s holding it hostage?

    He had to leave the hospital because illness is weakness. Assertion of control. Doesn’t matter that he might have a relapse, that he could be risking his own life as well as his team’s: he needed immediate control.

    The drive-by might have endangered his Secret Service, but he needed immediate fuel from adoring crowds.

    In addition to having to reassert control after Twitter froze his account, he must punish America for not admiring him the way he deserves. Never mind that there are supporters who need those checks to pay rent or food if they don’t want to be homeless or starve their families: he doesn’t have cognitive empathy, and we must ALL be punished. He couldn’t even fake it for the people who’ve lost family members to Covid. They weren’t tough like him (He wasn’t quite so tough when they were taking him to the hospital and he kept asking if he was going to die.)

    I have little confidence in Biden and Harris, but I am hoping they will be standard slimy politicians who will do what will benefit them, as opposed to Trump, who does things that could backfire even on him, because immediate control is all he can consider. (At this point, my vocal coach and I have decided that a ticket of algae with a running mate of belly-button lint would be preferable to what we have now.)

    And I’ve learned that my antipathy to Mid-rangers isn’t always a good litmus test. There are times when a sleazy hypocrite of a mid-ranger will do a better job than a straight-up mobster, even if the mobster seems less irritating.

  10. Violetta says:

    Side Effects of Covid or Narcissism coming to the fore?

    DM headline:

    ‘Roid rage’ Trump crashes markets by tweeting that there will be NO stimulus until after election – as doctor voices fears his COVID medication causes mania, aggression and psychosis

  11. Violetta says:

    “Cleaning staff in hazmat suits sanitize the West Wing after Trump returned to the White House and a cluster of staff and reporters tested positive for COVID”

    My reaction:
    Poor things. I’d rather wash out Madonna’s bidet.

  12. Duchessbea says:

    HG, the best way to deal with a Narcissist is to go no contact. The lovely Hoover’s have now turned malign. I presume the best course of action is to remain stoic and no contact. Any other piece of advice you could recommend for the malign Hoover’s. Thank you HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Consult with me, sounds like you need help with your NCR.

      1. Duchessbea says:

        Thank you HG. I’m currently in the process of moving. So once I get over the upheaval and get settled I will contact you. I appreciate that. Thank you HG.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Jolly good, the sooner you do it though, the less upheaval you will experience.

  13. Violetta says:

    CNN article “Donald Trump’s Walter Reed drive-by reveals his true nature” doesn’t use the word “Narcissism,” but the rest of it is there: the indifference to the well-being of others, the horror of appearing weak, the need for constant approval from supporters–even refers to the lack of the “empathy gene.”

  14. Connie says:

    Are Mike Pence and Kamala Harris narcissists?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Connie, see The Knowledge Vault.

  15. step says:

    Firstly I red the article then I watched the debate on yt 🙂

  16. Lily says:

    (Apologies if someone’s already made the observation) Was surprised to read of Biden being categorised as an MRM. He seems to be quite devoted to his wife of several decades.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It’s called the facade.

      1. Lily says:

        Thank you, HG. Off topic: Was thinking of all you have written when reading some excerpts on the latest book on BoJo & his father in today’s Daily Trash.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Good to read.

    2. Witch says:

      I was with a narc for just under a decade. He was devoted me and didn’t look at other women at least not in front of me. He probably would have stayed with me for life if I hadn’t agreed to the breakup.
      Even the night before he was due to move out he tried to reconcile and have sex with me but I was grossed out.
      He wanted to marry me and get me pregnant but I was on the pill and 99% of the time I made him wear a condom and if I had become pregnant I would have terminated the pregnancy. I knew I wanted a way out for good. No connections. And I didn’t want to have a child that looked like him.
      Not every narc discards you or strays. For some you’re a good enough source of fuel for life.
      I think he was either an upper lesser or lower Mid-Ranger, but I’m leaning more towards upper lesser because he told me everyone at work thinks he is arrogant.

      1. MB says:

        Witch, he sounds like the “anchor” type. There’s an article about the various attachment types of narcissist. Anchor, ping pong, our dear nomad…I was just thinking the other day of how many different flavor combinations of narcissist there are. Endless possibilities, yet all similar at the cold hard center.

        1. Witch says:

          Yes MB he was definitely an anchor.
          I wish he had strayed earlier on then I might have escaped him a lot sooner
          When I was 16 he tried to break up with me and I was like “yes I’m free” and then he came sprinting across the the road talking about “ I love you”

          1. blackcoffee30 says:


        2. Kim e says:

          MB and Witch
          Good Morning!
          But even as a anchor I am not sure 1 source of fuel would be enough From everything I have read by HG the fuel matrix always has at least one sometimes multiple IPSS’s and NISS’s no matter what the narcs type.
          Maybe very well hidden but always there as a backup

          1. MB says:

            Kim e, you are correct. The Anchor spouse/partner is long-suffering. They tolerate much in the way of affairs with IPSS’s and all the other bullshit narcs bring.

          2. Witch says:

            Well I give it to my ex for hiding the other woman well, because he was always up my arse unless he was playing video games. He barely had any friends, never went to bars or night clubs. He even told my mum years into the relationship he doesn’t need any friends, I’m all he needs.

        3. NarcAngel says:

          If narcissists have a flavour it’s Jolly Rancher Sour Surge.

        4. Lily says:

          @MB Is this article somewhere on this website?

          1. MB says:

            I’m glad you found it. So many nuances in the narcissistic dynamic. It amazes me the way HG makes it so plain to understand. To simply say a person is a narcissist is as broad as describing someone as brown haired.

        5. Beguiled says:

          @ MB – yes! The last 4 years, my best friend has been seeing a narc, yet, we only just finally came to this conclusion after a half dozen or more times of me saying over the last several months, “Now, I don’t want to compare him in ANY way to my Narc, but his behavior reminds me of when my narc did this or that “…then it all just fell into place..

          The only thing that kept me on the fence was that we absolutely knew he has no other romantic interests in his life. That part didnt seem to fit (especially since my narc was such a whore). I was fairly sure he was a narc, but I knew he had to have other fuel sources. Perhaps a long distance “pen pal”…I finally came to the conclusion that he lived in his past, that he romanticisized his former relationships (with much younger women) and talked ad nauseum about these women, creating jealousy and triangulation. She felt like she was chasing after ghost women. (her glaring narcissistic trait is deep jealousy).

          It wasn’t until I read that article, mentioned here, when I realized he has multiple NISS..his sister, his roommate (super empath), a female colleague who strokes his ego (triangulation there, too).

          Oh, and this is odd, once she was going down on him and when she looked up, he was focused on the cat, vigorously massaging it instead of paying attention to her. Believe it or not, there were many times he used the CAT in triangulation! She would literally refer to his cat, jealously, the same way you would about another woman. She would arrive and he would instantly pick up the cat and pay huge amounts of attention to the cat instead of her.

          @ HG I have begged her to do the narc test. Money is not an issue for her so I am baffled.
          I send her your articles, and she is now 100% sure he’s a narc. She is still politely responding to him and seeing him out of habit… I told her grey rock does not work! lol

          Per usual, she assumes he is a greater. I believe he is an upper mid range cerebral/somatic.

          1. MB says:

            Beguiled, pets make excellent tools of triangulation as do children and even objects like cell phones. You know a man isn’t a normal if he’d rather pet the cat that get a blow job! You can only do so much as far as convincing her. You’ve provided her the resources. She will have to come to her own conclusions. You’re a good friend 😊

      2. Lily says:

        Thank you for sharing about your experience @Witch. Coming to think of it, those in my extended family, who exhibit some tendencies, have been remarkably faithful partners (most of whom, on hindsight, suffered a lot).

        1. Witch says:

          No worries Lily
          I fooled myself into thinking that maybe he was partly a decent guy because he was so faithful and even though I knew he was obsessed and possessive I thought It was partly because he was in love with me and it was me that wasn’t feeling it.

          My narc mother is also an anchor; she never cheated but only attracted narcissistic men and was cheated on.
          I witnessed her argue with the “other woman” when she was with her last boyfriend but she took him back anyway. I thought she was an idiot but I couldn’t express that because she would have cussed me. Now I know it suited her purpose to have and extra person to fight with.

          1. Lily says:

            @Witch. I tend to blame movies and literature for romanticising obsessiveness & possessiveness. Plus, if one has a family with members having some type of a personality disorder, then there’s a warped up approach to relationships. The combination results in one thinking all of this is normal and that the problem lies in oneself.

          2. Witch says:

            I agree, I was somewhat used to this behaviour having had a crazy mother but I also doubted myself about why i wasn’t attracted to/didn’t want this regimented relationship.
            Lily I still leave my dirty clothes on the floor despite having a washing bin right near it, I don’t fit in well with militant people and too much order so I need a partner who is tolerant, fun to be around and flexible.
            None of this, “ooohhhh so you’re walking in the house at 3am when you said you will be home at 2am. So you think you can just lie to me!”
            that bullshit that narcs do which dries my vagina up

    3. mommypino says:


      Biden is an Upper MR so his facade is deceiving. If you know how he met his wife Jill you would not think that he is empathic. According to Jill’s ex husband, Biden had an affair with Jill when she was still married to him and they were helping Biden with his campaign (entitlement, lack of accountability, no moral compass or loyalty). Biden also has a tendency to lie so much about his past. It has been ridiculed so many times before but I haven’t seen the media talk about it now that he is running against Trump.

      I have seen CNN and other stations say that the difference Biden has compared to Trump is that he has empathy. They need to be specific and call it cognitive empathy. I have to say though that their move to remove the negative ads right now while Trump is sick is an effective political move from his cognitive empathy.

      Also, Hunter Biden is a total narcissist as well. If you read how he treated his ex wife it’s like reading the testimonies here of victims that have been divorced and coparenting with a narcissist. He also had an affair with the widow of his brother while he was married with his ex wife and then dumped the widow and married someone else shortly right after he dumped her. And they said that Biden knew about the affair but didn’t care. From the outside they look like upstanding family but they have so many skeletons.


      1. Lily says:

        Thank you @mommypino. The facade worked in deceiving me- used to think he was a nice guy with some memory issues. No one interestingly talks about Biden & Jill’s past- especially this story (which I did read about). I suppose politics tends to attract those with certain characteristics- and they are the ones who survive.

        1. mommypino says:

          You’re super welcome Lily! His facade deceived me too because when he was running against Hillary and Obama, he was actually my first choice, and then when he was eliminated I voted for Obama who has a much better facade. I was browsing at the blog maybe a couple of days ago and saw an excellent explanation by HG regarding narcissists and getting criticized with regards to the behaviors of Pamela. I think that is an excellent explanation how narcissists are able to survive such a harsh environment such as politics where very few non-narcissists are able to survive let alone thrive. I can’t remember which article that was on but I will post it under your comment if I find it again.

          1. Lily says:

            @mommypino Not Obama! I love Obama! 🙁

            Don’t tell me that Carter is one too! If so, I might end up losing all hope in humanity.

        2. mommypino says:

          Hi Lily, I found what I was referring to. HG wrote this about Pamela (a narcissist who occasionally posts here) but I think it applies as to why and how narcissists are able to survive harsh environments such as politics. Not all of it applies exactly to every narcissist in politics but this is a pretty good picture as to the difference of narcissists versus empaths. Bullying and criticisms affect narcissists and empaths differently. And so in environments where there are lots of narcissists that bully such as politics, the people that have the natural abilities to withstand that are narcissists. Empaths can thrive too but there has to be other factors that improve their ability to survive.

          “ She is unable to see she looks stupid, indeed by labelling her as stupid, she will respond with another insult because she has no insight that allows her to realise that I am not Harvey or Tony, that she looks utterly stupid through her comments and she will keep going until such time as she gets no response whatsoever and will withdraw for a period of time. When the wounding heals and when there is a Hoover Trigger (which there will be because she like all the of the handful of narcissists which are obsessed with me, subscribes to the blog so she gets notifications so there will always be HTs) Thereafter, the HEC are usually met because it is so easy to hoover me by posting a comment. The problem for her (and the others) the comments are either challenged, rejected through evidence or ignored and thus they will be forced to withdraw and the process starts all over again. A non-narcissist can see that they make fools of themselves and this simple piece of logic “If HG Tudor is so hateful, why keep following him, why keep engaging with him?” Of course that logic is denied to them by their narcissism. It will find a reason to ignore, deflect , work around that solid logic. Therein lies the difference. The empaths that do not like my work, just move on and say nothing. The narcissists? Well you have seen for yourself how they behave.”


          1. Lily says:

            Thank you for sharing this, mommypino. Their logic seems to be so different – “It will find a reason to ignore, deflect , work around that solid logic”.

            Pamela reminds me of someone who was “flaming” someone else on a professional website & was just continuing to do so even though she was making a fool of herself. Also her behaviour mirrors that of someone I know, so HG’s comment (which you so helpfully posted) is proving to be very valuable in my case. In HG’s case, it is a narcissist following a narcissist. Mine, I suppose, is a narcissist following an empath.

          2. mommypino says:

            Hello Lily, unfortunately for me, Pamela reminds me of my mom. That’s why you would not see me picking on her. My guess is that she is also a Middle Lesser, maybe Victim. But I could be wrong because I seldom read her comments. My mom flamed our neighbors and many of Pamela’s comments are similar to my mom’s style. That’s why we moved so many times. HG’s article about the Bad Neighbor matched my mom so well. That’s why HG’s explanation that I shared to you really impressed me because that was my mom. There were even times that I saw her looking at the mirror after a big fight with neighbors and trying on some expressions. Sometimes she even misinterpret the situation that her enemies enjoy bantering with her because like HG said she couldn’t realize that she was embarrassing herself. I even tried to explain to her so many times but she only believed what she wanted to believe. Oh well, glad those days are over now and she is finally at peace.

            Oh and about Obama and Carter, Obama is a narcissist. You have to get one of HG’s list of famous narcissists to find out which cadre and school he is in. I can’t remember right now which list Obama is in. I think it’s in the same list that Biden is in. Carter is also included in one of HG’s lists which identifies if one is a narcissist or not so you will find out what Carter is in that list. It was really helpful to me because it helped me differentiate real life examples of Greaters and Upper Mid Rangers which I used to be confused with.

          3. Lily says:

            Thank you for explaining about Pamela’s similarity with your mother – this wouldn’t have been easy for you. But I also wonder whether Pamela is like the internet trolls… or whether all internet trolls suffer from the same issue.

            Truly sad about Obama.

          4. mommypino says:

            You’re welcome Lily.

            I think you’re right, she would qualify as a troll. I think that you have a really good point about internet trolls possibly suffering from same issue. Internet has made it easier for narcissists to get fuel so they probably troll the internet forums to get fuel. I looked up the definition of troll and it says:

            “An internet troll is someone who makes intentionally inflammatory, rude, or upsetting statements online to elicit strong emotional responses in people or to steer the conversation off-topic.”

            I bet they feel being able to assert control when they successfully steer people away from the conversation or topic and they gain fuel from the strong emotional responses. When I left my mom I learned that she was on Facebook all day everyday. So I think that you have a great point about the link between internet trolls and narcissism.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Internet trolls consist of narcissists and some normals.

          6. mommypino says:

            Thank you HG for the confirmation! That is pretty fascinating!

          7. Whitney says:

            Dear HG the God
            Someone I know made a fake dating profile and talked to the guy she liked. Pretending to be the type of girl she thought he’d like – a dumb blonde, but acting outgageous to the point where he blocked her.
            Is this person a narcissist?
            Thank you, so much

          8. HG Tudor says:

            More information would be needed to confirm whether the individual is or not, however there are indicators in what you have written, Whitney.

          9. Violetta says:


            “Internet trolls consist of narcissists and some normals.”

            Uh-oh. I’ve done some internet trolling. And I know I’m not normal.

          10. MommyPino says:

            V, maybe you weren’t really trolling but just disagreeing. Sometimes people use the label troll just because they got offended by the post by someone who disagreed with them.

          11. Violetta says:


            No, I was trolling. During lockdown, I’d go to Meghan Markle articles on DM, click on the worst column, find the most fatuous comments, and post something even more fatuous underneath. I guess you could say I was trolling the trolls.

            Eventually, MM stans were offended by some of my Dr. Tran allusions, and got me permanently banned. I had to get another DM account, and I’m a little more circumspect with that one.

          12. mommypino says:

            Haha bravo Violetta! In that case I could totally understand. MM fans are so amusing. I think I have done something of the same nature regarding MM. There was an article about MM and Harry charging hundreds of thousands for their speeches. I think it was a Daily Mail article on FB. All I did was leave a comment, “What do they have to say to me that is worth that much money?” All of a sudden it generated lots of likes and replies that agree with me. But two women left a mean comment to me. I don’t know what I ate that day but for some reason I replied to them with one liners that showed how stupid their comments were and people just kept liking my responses. Eventually one of them kind of reconciled with me although with some inserted passive aggression and she said goodbye. I wrote back something nice to her without passive aggression and she seemed to appreciate it and wrote back something nice to me without passive aggression too. But the other woman I just ended up ignoring because she was too angry and her comments were obviously not sensible so she kept getting laugh emojis from people. So yeah, I could totally understand why it is amusing for everyone to troll on the MM subject. 😁

          13. Whitney says:

            Thank you HG the God! I’ve thought about getting the Narc Detector on her but that makes me sad because I love her. Labelling someone as a Narcissist is dehumanising.

  17. December Infinity says:

    Given how Trump has been downplaying the existence and severity of COVID-19 since the outset, it could very well be a control tactic to gain the upper hand in the debates. If he actually has contracted the virus because of his own behaviours by deliberately not following the guidelines as set by the medical authorities such as social distancing and wearing a mask, then it is clearly his own fault. Who knows how many people will now need to be tested that Trump has been around over the past few weeks/months and right up until the latest debate with Biden. All I can say is that for everyone else, don’t be like Trump in terms of his denial of the pandemic. Don’t be a covidiot.

    1. Violetta says:

      From Covfefe to Covid. What a presidency.

  18. Why me? says:

    There is a letter from his Physician posted saying that he tested positive for the virus. So, it is true.

    1. Another Cat says:

      …. sounds wise to not stage or lie about one’s health.

      Would have bitten them in the tush later on if they really do attract covid. “He got it A Second Time!”

    2. Fieke says:

      Yes.. but The President is Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States and these doctors are all from the military..That makes that letter very questionable..
      It is a lie that no one ever will found out about ever.

  19. NarcAngel says:

    Six!!! Glad to hear you are all well and that you are making progress on your project. Are you still taking road trips with Pretzel? Turns out that woman with the gas mask you used to drive around was not nuts but rather prepared! Thanks for stopping in and keep well my friend.


    1. windstorm says:

      Great to hear from you! Hope all is well in your world! Nope, no more road trips with pretzel. No more going out to restaurants or movies with him either. I take the virus very seriously, since I’m in the “high risk of death” group. I did run out to Kansas for 10 days to see the new granddaughter, but otherwise I’m staying at home alone.

      Yep. Daughter has 6 little kids now. Ages 8, 6, 4, 3, 1, and newborn, with a pony sized Newfoundland and a Westie n the house too. There’s no way to adequately describe the level of chaos in her home to someone who hasn’t seen it.

      Great to connect up with you and see you’re still sharing your wisdom!

  20. Another Cat says:

    HG excuse me if you’ve already mentioned this subject, but

    wee wee wee, the latest Nonnarc president was…

    Ronald Reagan?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      See The Knowledge Vault Famous Narcissist lists.

      1. blackcoffee30 says:

        Oof. Have any U.S. presidents been empaths?

        (not expecting a straight answer, but for KV).

        1. HG Tudor says:

          See The Knowledge Vault, that is what it is there for.

  21. Bibi says:

    Was streaming a film on my I-pad last night and got a message from Apple News around midnight informing me–womp womp–guess who tested positive.

    Will the next debate be over Zoom? Stay tuned for more Tweets from Twat Land.

    1. Violetta says:

      Word is, he hasn’t been tweeting as usual. Could be really sick then.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Mild symptoms.

        1. Violetta says:

          I meant genuinely sick (not taking it), rather than severely sick, but full symptoms may not have developed yet. DM headline:

          ‘Fatigued’ Trump has a ‘fever’ and has been given a Regeneron ‘antibody cocktail’ to treat COVID while Melania has a cough and headache – as it’s revealed he knew he’d been exposed to infected Hope Hicks but STILL flew to fundraiser for 100 people

          1. Violetta says:

            *not FAKING it

    2. Violetta says:

      White House doctor: “The president is delirious.” White House aides: “How can you tell?”

      1. WhoCares says:


  22. Sweetest Perfection says:

    HG, according to The Guardian today, Trump has tested positive for COVID. Do you think this could be a ploy to 1) avoid the next debate 2) reaffirm his negationist positioning towards the virus, reappearing after a couple of weeks to say something like: “see? I’m fine. It was just another flu”?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do.

      1. Why me? says:


        How could it be a ploy by him if he actually has the virus and the people are supposed to know? There is a letter by his physician posted, so, it is true.

        He had no control over getting the virus. Yeah, he could have wore masks, but unless you think he got the virus on purpose to make it a ploy, I’m not sure how he you think he developed a ploy.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. Just because a doctor wrote a letter does not mean it is true. I have used doctors to manipulate myself, they all have a pressure point of some description.
          2. Claiming to have it when he has not is a useful plot to assert control.
          3. If he has actually got it, then it will be utilised as a means to control.

          It will be used because of what he is.

          1. Why me? says:

            Wow! Okay. Thanks, HG.

        2. Witch says:

          Why me?
          You were really hoping he died init? You’re not alone

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I really hope they treat him using the UNaffordable Care Plan, like the majority of Americans. I also have hope in Nostradamus, being a little bit esoteric and such.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Nostradamus and HG, he predicted it too in the new reading.

          3. Why me? says:

            There was a moment that I did wish he would die from it, yes. But then I didn’t because it is mean and I didn’t want karma. Then, I wished he did… I have mixed feelings about it.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Why Me, my biggest worry is not karma but Mike Pence.

          5. Violetta says:

            Whether Trump is lying about being sick so he can have a miraculous heroic recovery, or whether he is lying about being less sick than he really is, I think we can guarantee one thing: he is lying.

            His team can’t even coordinate their lies.

            DM headlines:

            “Walter Reed doctors praise Trump’s recovery, reveal he was treated with steroid on Saturday after ‘second drop in oxygen’ and blames Mark Meadows’ ‘misconstrued’ statement for confusion over his condition”

            “Was there damage to Trump’s heart and liver? Why would hospital release him so soon after taking Dexamethasone and Remdesivir? Crucial questions that remain unanswered by President’s medical team”

            “Misleading medical reports, backtracking doctors and a confused timeline: How a paranoid Trump’s fear of leaks has left his own team in the dark about severity of his condition – and how exposed THEY are to Covid-19”

            DM comment:

            Native Keeper, Rochester Hills, United States, less than a minute ago
            “Only COVID-19 patients on ventilators or oxygen are given Dexamethasone. It’s prescribed because lung damage is occurring. So, why are they lying?”

            Personally, I suspect he is sicker then he will admit, even to himself, but there is such overlap with his usual narcy tone-deafness, it’s not obvious. He posed for “still workin'” pics, with time-stamps revealing that there were just a few minutes between jacket on and jacket off, as he signed what blown-up shots revealed to be blank sheets of paper. He had not bothered to cover his dome with his standard combover.

            This carelessness won’t alert his stans, who will engage in whatever double-think is necessary to continue loving Big Brother, even if he made them sick when he did his crowd fly-by after possibly premature release.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Accurate, good examples Violetta.

          7. Witch says:

            @why me

            Try not to feel too bad. The man made sexual comments about his own daughter. Who knows? he may have even molested her.
            He said that he likes Jeffery Epstein and they both have a liking for young women in common.
            I hope he dies, guilt free

          8. NarcAngel says:

            Ground breaking news from NAN (NarcAngel Network)

            Doctors have discovered that the transient drops in Trump’s oxygen levels was due to the repeated inability to “shut his perpetually moving and lying mouth”.

            In an attempt to rectify this, they have administered a steroid and supplemental oxygen so that he can “more effectively continue to blow it out of his ass”, thus solving the oxygen issue.

          9. mommypino says:

            Witch, Bill Clinton raped an empath and was a frequent customer of Jeffey Epstein but I don’t wish him death. I just wish him a lifetime of wounding which will obviously not happen. But I’m glad that his wife lost.

          10. Mercy says:

            I almost forgot he only paid taxes 10 out of the last 15 years. That’s was like 9 days ago. What was the scandal after that?

            Oh yeah the debate. The guy makes my head spin.

    2. Empath007 says:

      My thoughts exactly.

      1. Another Cat says:

        Not my thoughts back on Friday.

        But it’s only Sunday and the latest headlines are Trump now in hospital might be back in office on Monday? Sounds a bit fishy.

    3. Empath007 says:

      It’s interesting how no one wants anyone to speak ill of the sick or dead. It’s in bad taste…. therefore we shouldn’t do it. I’ve never been one to subscribe to that theory, death and illness don’t place someone in saint hood. Trump (along with many other narcissist) have this ill conceived notion that people’s hatred of them is purely rooted in jealousy. When in fact its not. Because narcissists are not the only people who can paint people black… and keep them in that category.

      I don’t think Trump has it, I think he’s lying. But if he does. I hope he dies, as proof to all his followers they need to wear a fucking mask.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Didn’t you hear the news? He’s miraculously recovered and feeling better than 20 years ago! Someone call Marvel, we have a new hero!

      2. Leigh says:

        Empath007, thank you for this post! I agree 100% I was just having this conversation with my best friend.
        Just because someone is sick or dies doesn’t excuse their evil behavior. It doesn’t give them a free pass. I was actually talking about someone personal in my life, not Donald Trump but it still applies.
        They are suffering right now because they may have something serious wrong. I refuse to give them an ounce of sympathy. They don’t deserve it.

        1. Empath007 says:

          Totally. Peoples empathy comes out (which isn’t a bad thing) but it also doesn’t erase history. Anyone who has been exposed to an abuser their whole life usually feels one true feeling when they finally die…. relief. Pure relief. Relief that they no longer have to make the decision to leave or stay, relief the person can’t hurt them or others anymore, relief for the peace in their life. The abuser does not realize this. They always assume everyone is so obsessed with them they don’t understand it’s not jealousy. People actually just hate them sometimes. Just the same way they can hate others.

          While it’s probably best to keep those unpopular opinions to ourselves… we also don’t have to turn someone into a saint either !

          I remember watching an Amy Schumar movie where at her dads funeral she started with something like “ he was such an asshole …” I liked that scene. It was raw. It was the truth. Sometimes people are assholes but we love them. Other times their assholes but we hate them. But either way, still an asshole lol.

          Good luck in your own personal circumstance. You can be polite but no need to bed over backwards for someone who wouldn’t for you.

          As for Trump. He just got away with conning the American people once again. Surprise surprise.

          1. Leigh says:

            Empath007 says, Relief that they no longer have to make the decision to leave or stay, relief the person can’t hurt them or others anymore, relief for the peace in their life.

            Perfectly stated and so absolutely true.

      3. mommypino says:

        From what I have heard, he has at least a 90-95% chance of recovering.


      4. Mercy says:

        Haha empath007,

        Or we could just vote him out. The US doesnt need a dead President. You know, national security and all that jazz.

      5. Mercy says:


        I change my mind after reading his tweets today. Fuck national security. Take em down Covid!

        1. Empath007 says:

          Haha ! The man does have a way of passing everyone off with his words haha

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