What Was Brian Laundrie?

74 thoughts on “What Was Brian Laundrie?

  1. Leigh says:

    Mr. Tudor, did you see the cause of Brian Laundrie’s has been confirmed to be suicide by gun shot wound to the head. Do you think he committed suicide because of a fuel crisis? I’m curious about your thoughts on this.

  2. Alex the Authentic says:

    Excellent analysis! With regards to Gabby Petito, I have an inkling about her school of empath based on her behaviors in the body cam footage and her familial upbringing. I’ve genuinely enjoyed this series. Looking forward to more videos.

    1. A Victor says:

      Same! I’m thinking CoD/Carrier primarily. It could be Standard/Carrier but I think Super is out of the question.

      I am also hoping for more videos but wondering if, since he is dead, it would be anticlimactic for drawing viewers? Still, I am hopeful. There are many questions that are still unanswered.

      1. Alex the Authentic says:

        Exactly! She strikes me as a CoD as well and I definitely agree that Super is out of the question. Yeah I’m hoping for more videos too AV. I still would like to know if the Bearded Cop is a narcissist or if Gabby’s Petito’s father is a narcissist as well too.

        1. A Victor says:

          Yes! All of that and more! I forgot Geyser, I think some of that maybe too, esp if there is a lot of CoD. Thank you for sharing your thought about it!

          1. A Victor says:

            Thoughts**. Autocorrect strikes again.

  3. Chihuahuamum says:

    There are aspects of Brian that were lesser narc where he showed less control of his behaviors as in the incident at the restaurant when he freaked out at the waitress. Then there are times when he comes off more as a greater midrange in regards to his manipulative behavior around the officers when they were pulled over.
    He definitely is a midranger. He comes off as a mama’s boy and was never held accountable for his actions. I also think he may have had antisocial personality disorder. He didn’t have many friends and more or less road on Gabby’s social coattail. He was a loner and fit his persona to match up with hers, but resented her because he was nothing like the persona he tried to portray.
    I also wonder if he might’ve been a serial killer.

  4. BC30 says:

    This is exactly what was said at the beginning of the recent HG Interview. Narcissists are dangerous.

  5. BC30 says:

    Time a lesson with HG 🤓

  6. WiserNow says:

    What was Brian Laundrie?

    Coming to a cinema near you … A modern-day American love story.

    Two young lovers on a cross-country adventure driving to beautiful yet treacherous places, gazing at magnificent sunsets and camping under stars, alone against the world with only a van to call home.

    Menacing thunder clouds await them as their passion turns to angst and then regret. Her dreams of stardom dashed by his dark and fateful rage. The tragic tale playing out in the 21st century’s version of the Roman colosseum – social media.

    A tragic tale of doomed young love, punctuated by a police road-stop, restaurant conflict and swampland mystery. Today, worldwide speculation abounds about how the sad, sorry tale could have been averted. Alas, too late. . .

    1. A Victor says:

      But there wasn’t any love from half of the pair. 😥

      1. WiserNow says:

        I know AV, it’s not a love story at all. The words ‘love story’ should be changed to ‘narcissistic dynamic’. It’s sad.

        When I wrote the comment above, I was thinking that it probably won’t be long before a Hollywood film is made about the case. It has received so much media attention, plus it has the elements of a cliched kind of Hollywood ‘love story’. There are probably film producers already fighting over the rights to make it.

        I wondered how the subject of narcissism would be handled in a film. In a ‘popular’ Hollywood-style ‘blockbuster’ film, the case would likely be made into a kind of ‘tragic young love’ story-line. I don’t think the majority of the public understand or grasp what the dynamic in the relationship actually was.

        1. A Victor says:

          Wow, I hope Hollywood doesn’t do that, as a tragic love story anyway. I feel like either set of parents might be willing to sell it for the cash though. Yes, narcissistic dynamic is much more accurate. If made by Hollywood to show that, it could possibly be useful. But I doubt they would do it and if they did, unless they pulled HG in as an advisor, it likely wouldn’t be accurate anyway.

          1. WiserNow says:


            If Hollywood is going to make a film about it, I hope it’s taken seriously regarding the psychology behind the couple’s relationship, rather than just being for light entertainment.

            Speaking of ‘blockbuster’ Hollywood films, I recently watched ‘I, Tonya’, about the life of figure skater Tonya Harding. It’s clear that Tonya’s mother was a narcissist and Tonya’s experiences in the figure skating world showed the narcissistic aspects of the sport. The film was made into a black comedy and depicted the characters in a mocking way, as though they were pathetic, trashy morons. I didn’t like the film and thought the ‘comedy’ aspect of it was overdone. It didn’t provide thought-provoking insights or give the audience a more balanced view as HG does here with his entertaining AND educational approach. I can see why the film was made that way though – to appeal to a general audience as light ‘entertainment’ without focusing on narcissism. Also, the crime against Nancy Kerrigan was a horrible and stupid thing to do, so the film probably wanted to reinforce that aspect too.

            When it comes to Gabby and Brian’s parents selling the story for the cash, I can see Gabby Petito’s father doing that. He has already been on Dr Phil. Also, at the press conference where all four parents answered questions after Gabby Petito’s body was found, her father kept stressing the importance of journalists continuing to ask questions to ‘shine a light’ on things like the relationship and the abuse his daughter had suffered. His statements seemed plausible enough if you saw him as a ‘concerned father’, however, he also seemed to relish being at the centre of the drama and having the media attention.

          2. A Victor says:

            Yes, Gabby’s dad is an interesting person. I think he may have had a lot to do with why she accepted the abuse she did from Brian. It is ironic that he now is speaking of that treatment of her in such terms.

            I think Hollywood knows that people like to view narcissism from a distance, it can’t possibly be in their own life, or that of someone they love. I think many empaths are in denial and narcissist’s wouldn’t consider that they are one so it may even bore them. So seeing people in a story, on a screen, is preferable to having it presented as a common problem in our world, that “it will never happen to me” thinking. It is too bad since, as we know, it is much more prevalent than people realize and they would do well to learn about it and take it seriously. Probably at some point or another, almost all people are affected by one somehow.

          3. WiserNow says:


            When it comes to Gabby’s father, I agree. His personality and actions made me question him early on, that is, how he influenced Gabby’s mindset.

            About your comment regarding Hollywood, I think Hollywood-style films are the essence of ‘magical thinking’. They generally stick to a formula and have happy, safe or predictable endings etc. They’re about presenting a slick or ideal image and marketed to sell at the box office rather than presenting ‘reality’. It’s the same with instagram and similar social media blogs too, like the one Gabby created.

            Hollywood sells false narratives and people buy into them. It’s also about who can make a film that’s bigger and better and pushes the envelope to create more hype to draw attention. An audience wants to be entertained and people generally want to suspend reality for two hours and be drawn in by what they see. They want to associate with the ‘hero’ and with ‘success’.

            I agree narcissism is much more prevalent than people realise and that people in general believe “it will never happen to me”. It’s easier to judge while believing your own actions are ‘justified’ and reasonable. Like you say, it’s denial. I believe it’s unconscious denial in many people. People in general, whether they’re narcissists, empaths or normals, act on instinct and personal beliefs without questioning their instincts and beliefs until the ‘reality’ makes this too difficult or they receive insight in some way.

            Thanks for your comment AV. It’s a pleasure to discuss these aspects more thoroughly with you 🙂

  7. WhoCares says:

    I realized my earlier comment may have been a bit of a spoiler for the outcome. In my excitement over feeling as though I’ve found a missing piece of the puzzle in this analysis – I didn’t think. HG, please delete my earlier comment if that’s the case.

  8. Red T says:

    Hello HG Tudor,
    So is The Ultra one, yourself, just lone one or
    Is there a woman Ultra too?
    Does she also have a YT channel that you know of?
    Thanks for doing all this work.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is only one Ultra,

  9. Duchessbea says:

    A total full of himself, controlling bastard. Scumbag and Coward.
    Gabby Petito deserved so much better. Rest in Peace Gabby.

    1. WiserNow says:


      On the face of it, yes, he was a controlling coward. He committed a horrible crime. Had he remained alive, he would deserve to be sentenced to prison.

      Knowing what we know about narcissism, hateful labels don’t tell the whole story though. Vilification doesn’t assist greater understanding or insight.

      Brian Laundrie was a narcissist. He had the genetic predisposition and the lack of control environment. His mother could be a narcissist too. I’m speculating here, going by photos I have seen of Brian’s parents. Considering the things known about Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie, it’s apparent that Gabby was empathic and self-blaming while Brian was entitled and manipulative. I’d speculate that he was his mother’s golden child.

      From the facts of the case, there were opportunities for Brian to muster the courage to face up to what he did, however, this was unlikely since narcissists blame-shift and feel no remorse or accountability. However, his parents could have taken a responsible approach and talked him into turning himself in and confessing. After he killed Gabby and drove back to his parents’ house, at that point in time, there was a possible ‘fork in the road’ where he could have (with his parents guidance) spoken to police and admitted what had happened. At 23 and still living at home, he was young and immature and may have gone home expecting to get some kind of advice from his parents.

      To my mind, parents who truly care about their child would not want him to be a fugitive or hiding out alone in dangerous wilderness. There is a point at which they must have known these options were going to end up with him facing even worse consequences.

      The way I see the whole thing now is that the ‘van-life’ the couple were leading was beyond their capabilities – in terms of their skills, preparedness and psychological resilience. Also, the social media aspect of it created a further stressor too. The social media image of people filming themselves in ideal situations having a perfect relationship and looking polished and happy each day belongs in glossy magazines. It’s not realistic. I think the two of them were too young and inexperienced to really understand the stress their lifestyle was causing to them.

      This doesn’t excuse Brian Laundrie’s behaviour. He still committed a horrible crime and was ultimately responsible. I’m seeing it with a wider lens than just focusing simply on his decisions in isolation.

      1. WiserNow says:

        On second thoughts Duchessbea,

        After writing my comment, I thought about the consequences for Brian Laundrie if he had given himself up to police and ended up in prison. He would probably be the young and shall we say, ‘delicate’ one in a cell with other prisoners with names like Mad-Dog Murphy and Johnno the Psycho Killer. Even if he was in solitary confinement, his health would be at risk, everyone knows him and he’d be hated all over the world.

        Maybe hiding out with alligators and snakes was his preferred ‘courageous’ option.

        Whichever way you look at it, he destroyed both of their lives.

        1. Duchessbea says:

          I agree with you, in what you have said in both comments.

  10. WhoCares says:

    Excellent! I so enjoyed this breakdown. Thank-you HG for going into such detail regarding what essentially explains the fine dividing line between LMRN and Upper Lessers. I feel like I have received the final piece of a puzzle I have been staring at for too long!

    1. A Victor says:

      Hi WC, your comment is interesting to me. I have results from 4 NDC’s, all different and as such a fantastic learning tool. Having results from each of these categories, I would have said the UL’s and LMR are vastly different, the LMR seeming more like the LL or ML to me. But what caught my attention was how the cadre does or does not affect it as much. The UL that I consulted about was Somatic, the LM, Victim. And yet, even with that, Laundrie is so similar to my LM that it’s shocking. He also struck me as similar to my MMR, also a Somatic. It may be helping me to understand how the cadres “lay over” the schools to make the specific narcissist. Possibly like the school runs things, the cadre being how it uses the narcissism almost? Something like that is formulating in my head, whether correct or not. Anyway, thank you for your comment, it was thought provoking.

      1. WhoCares says:


        “I would have said the UL’s and LMR are vastly different, the LMR seeming more like the LL or ML to me.”

        I have a friend who’s ex is an UL type B and my ex is LMR. So, I find comparing and contrasting very educational and the Brian Laundrie analysis is particularly informative. I find your comment interesting AV because that would suggest more physically violent behaviour in a LMRN? (If they’re similar to LL or ML?) My LMRN, in nearly a decade, was only physically violent to me once – and it involved grabbing my wrist in effort to stop me going to work. He had been violent towards objects or property but only 2-3 times. So, even the level of Brian Laundrie’s violence is interesting to me, but I understand that some LMRNs are more violent than others.

        1. A Victor says:

          Yes, my mother was very violent with us kids, even the choking was present. I truly believe she hated us. She was mild as a mouse when my dad was home, it was her big secret. I think it depends on the degree.of middle to the degree of lesser in the combo.

          1. WhoCares says:

            “Yes, my mother was very violent with us kids, even the choking was present.”
            I am so sorry to hear this.
            Personally, I would have a hard time staying even ANC with my mother, if this were my experience.

          2. A Victor says:

            I do have a hard time with it. I consider moving very often.

          3. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, the beauty of writing something is that we have the chance to think about it before we say it. My first reactions to this comment was, “how incredibly insensitive and if you knew AV’s story, you wouldn’t have said that.”
            I also thought, “Well lucky you that you don’t have to deal with that” These thoughts in my head aren’t very nice either. I probably should keep my mouth shut and not post them either. I stopped. I thought about it. Then decided to post anyway. This comment feels like you’re being judgenental and I had to defend AV’s comment. AV was just trying to explain why she thought LMRs were different from ULs by using a piece of her life as an example and you hit her below the belt. If AV chooses to stay ANC, that’s her decision.

            AV, I apologize if I’ve crossed a boundary.

          4. A Victor says:

            Leigh, thank you for voicing your thoughts, I did not take offense as I thought WC was either encouraging me to move, or she was just expressing how it would be for her. And also the possibility that I had offended her by thinking the two schools were different, I had not yet come to understand their similarities. I have come to understand it since then I think, and in part because WC had brought it to my attention with her initial comment.

            You have not crossed a boundary, you have expressed how a comment made you feel, that is fine in my opinion, how else are we to understand each other better? I actually feel honored, it has been very rare in my life for someone to defend me. No apology needed.

          5. WhoCares says:

            Hello Leigh,

            I am glad you posted your comment. I was not judging AV’s choice either way – to stay ANC or go NC. So, I appreciate you pointing out that my comment may have come across as judgmental.

            I completely understand the feelings and motives around the choice to stay involved in a parental narcissist’s life – especially if they are aging or suffering an illness. Quite a while ago now, I had originally intended (and consulted with HG on it) to go ANC with my own mother, before ‘ANC’ was a thing. But I just couldn’t do it. I refused to subject myself to that.

            “how incredibly insensitive and if you knew AV’s story, you wouldn’t have said that.”

            You’re right. I don’t know AV’s story in it’s entirety. I only know bits and pieces. I think both you and AV started posting in the comments, roughly, around a time when I wasn’t able to follow along closely here. And I still don’t currently have the availability to come visit frequently and stay up to date.

            I only shared my input on what would influence my own decision to stay or go. And in both my mother’s case and my ex’s, violence was the deal breaker. When the first violent incident in both situations occured, I was simply done.
            And you’re also correct, I consider myself fortunate that I didn’t have the element of physical abuse in my childhood. It was strictly emotional and psychological abuse. My mother had a violent outburst directed one time only, when I was adult. My ex never physical assaulted me – except to grab my wrist one day as I was leaving for work. He did however exhibit physical violence towards objects and property in my presence (and our son’s) – but only rarely during nearly a decade.

            Essentially, I made that statement because if it made an impression on AV in a way that allowed her to feel free to even consider the thought: “Right, I don’t have to stay involved if I so choose so. I am not obligated to stay with and support an adult who freely abused me as a child” – then it was worth making the statement (even if it came across as judgmental, which wasn’t the intention.)

          6. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, thank you for your response. I am also an ACON. Both of my parents are narcissists. I do understand the need to draw the line. My mother was never physical but was neglectful. I often went to bed hungry. I barely speak to her now. She was recently in the hospital and I refused to go see her. I have no interest in seeing her. I understand how important it is to go no contact.

            AV’s situation is different. She sold her home to come and live with her parents in order to take care of her father. She was told that her parents home would eventually be given to her. She gave up her home and security and it was all done before she knew her parents were narcissists. I probably shouldn’t speak for her but my guess is she would be probably be like us and go no contact if her circumstances were different.

            With all of that said, sometimes my savior trait gets the best of me. Thank you for your understanding.

            One other thing, there’s probably a piece of me that took it personally because I’m still in ensnarement with my narc husband. Thank you again for clarifying.

          7. WhoCares says:


            I am sorry to know that you grew up with two narcissist parents. I had the benefit of one empathic parent and can only imagine a household where both parents are abusive.

            ” I often went to bed hungry.”
            This is one of the things that causes me much pain to contemplate. Control through food. Especially children. At a time when the body absolutely needs those building blocks…and imagining them dealing with hunger pangs in addition to everything else…

            “She sold her home to come and live with her parents in order to take care of her father. She was told that her parents home would eventually be given to her. She gave up her home and security and it was all done before she knew her parents were narcissists”

            I absolutely understand the fear of losing one’s home as a consequence of leaving the narcissist. Following my escape I lived in a studio, a women’s shelter twice, a friend’s home – and during the attempt to seek an independent apartment, I lost 3 apartments during the “application” stage.
            I should add that while still in the formal relationship, we had already lost our “home” and were living in cabin.

            I am very, very grateful to have had the apartment I have now (with my son) for two years.

            “One other thing, there’s probably a piece of me that took it personally because I’m still in ensnarement with my narc husband.”

            Completely understandable.
            Not long after I arrived here I lashed out at another commenter for essentially saying someone else was “stupid” for having let a narcissist cause her to lose her home and job. I know a lot of that was due to the shame and anger I felt at myself for the things that I gave up or lost due to my ensnarement.

          8. WhoCares says:

            Addendum: with my last comment, Leigh, I wasn’t implying that I felt that you had lashed out. You were quite nice about it actually.

            *Sorry if this is a repeat post. WordPress has gone wonky again.

          9. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, I understood what you meant. You were operating in defense mode like me.

          10. WhoCares says:

            Sorry – to clarify, ‘ANC’ was always a thing – it just hadn’t been given a label as such, back when I consulted about it (and wasn’t formally detailed as an option for dealing with a parental narcissist.)

          11. Joa says:

            Leigh, I think WhoCares was about being amazed that AV lives with her mother after all this and that she, in her place, wouldn’t be able to do that.

            Your willingness to defend AV is touching 🙂 But there is nothing negative about WhoCares’s sincere statement 🙂

            AV is a great person whether she lives under the same roof with her mother or without her.

            There are different situations in life and there can be many factors + difficulty in rejecting unequivocally. The most important thing is for AV to keep an internal distance to both mom and herself.

          12. WhoCares says:


            “Leigh, I think WhoCares was about being amazed that AV lives with her mother after all this and that she, in her place, wouldn’t be able to do that.”

            This is pretty accurate too.

            Additionally, as I responded to Leigh earlier, I did consider an option similar to AV’s arrangement with her mother. But I weighed it all out: I had a young child, I was still severely damaged from my relationship from ex, I was self-representing in my court case – (I even considered allowing her to rage at me over the phone because of the guilt I felt) but I realized I needed everything I had to give to protecting my child. If I had remained in contact with her, I would have continued in a downwards spiral.

          13. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, I’m so sorry. I’m so used to being in defense mode and thats exactly what I did with you. Its no excuse. I didn’t give you the same understanding that I expected you to give AV. I truly do apologize.

          14. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you Leigh. It’s okay. I am not hurt, upset or offended by your comment. I just wanted to set the record straight.

            I know the difficult situation that both you and AV finds yourselves in.
            I simply can’t help but hope that both of you find real freedom.
            I just know the position I was in when I managed to get free – it wasn’t easy but I found a way.
            I also wish others to find the inner strength to leave.

          15. Leigh says:

            Thank you WhoCares. You really had me thinking this past weekend. I think we all have a point where we say “Enough.” I was thinking about my father. He was physically abusive. That wasn’t the line in the sand for me though. I always made the excuse that this was the way he disciplined. In my head, I believed it wasn’t done to abuse us. It wasn’t until he left that I said, “No more.” He left when I was 14. My brothers and I had no idea what happened to him. I think at some point mother heard from him and we knew he was alive. But at that point, any respect I had from him was gone though. He passed over 10 years ago and at the time I was still estranged from him.

            We all have a breaking point. Sometimes people’s thresholds are just a little different.

            I’m sorry that situation with the mirrored doors happened with your mom. I can imagine how scary that must have been. You closing your eyes must have given her control and so she stopped. Thank goodness she did. You were right to keep your son away from her. I did the same with my parents. My children never met my father. As for my mother, they haven’t seen her in 20 years. I didn’t want them around that toxicity.

          16. WhoCares says:


            Just replying now, I didn’t get a notification for this.

            “I always made the excuse that this was the way he disciplined. In my head, I believed it wasn’t done to abuse us. It wasn’t until he left that I said, “No more.” He left when I was 14.”

            It is in our nature to excuse their behaviour. (Even in the mirrored doors incident, I thought my mom ‘lost it’ due to her drinking – I didn’t know that this was an episode of heated fury until I found HG’s work).
            I am sorry you grew up with a physically abusive father – but, so glad for you that he left and that you, essentially, went ‘no contact’ with him. Also good that your estrangement protected your children from him.

            “You were right to keep your son away from her.”
            It was hard – because my son did have a relationship with her. He rarely asks about his grandmother now. He seems to have got the message that I don’t talk about her, and he doesn’t bring her up in conversation – even though I haven’t explicitly explained so.

            “As for my mother, they haven’t seen her in 20 years. I didn’t want them around that toxicity.”

            No, absolutely not, if it can be helped.

          17. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, WordPress is a pain in the tuchus. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I often don’t get notifications and I have to scour through to see if I’ve gotten a reply.

            When my children were younger, I didn’t tell them the whole story about my mom. I just told them that she was agoraphobic and didn’t like to leave the house. I also told them that she wasn’t very comfortable with having people around. Those things are very true about my mother and I used that to my advantage. I was able to keep them away from her then.

            Honestly though, she has no interest in seeing my children. She doesn’t even ask. Ever. That actually makes my life a whole lot easier because I don’t need to make up excuses.

            As adults, I’ve given my children more information about what she has done to my brothers and I. I didn’t want them wondering why she wasn’t in our lives. When my dad left, the wondering was the worst part. I was always wondering if he was dead or alive and why he left.

          18. WhoCares says:


            “I just told them that she was agoraphobic and didn’t like to leave the house. I also told them that she wasn’t very comfortable with having people around. Those things are very true about my mother and I used that to my advantage. I was able to keep them away from her then.”

            An excellent way of using the truth to your advantage and satisfying any questions they might have had when they were young. Great way to handle it!

            “When my dad left, the wondering was the worst part. I was always wondering if he was dead or alive and why he left.”

            Thanks for sharing Leigh. I know this is something that my son experiences, the wondering about what exactly happened to his family. I have managed to keep most of the truth of his father’s poor behaviour from him – with even tiny bits of factual information being twisted (of course) if it gets through to his dad.
            But my son was fairly young when it all ended – he knows his father and I argued sometimes, but he knows little else. So, sometimes he wonders what happened to cause his parents to part ways. I have read him books on different family configurations and give him general information that way, but I say very little – and therefore there’s virtually no evidence of me talking about his father and opportunity for such information to be used against me in our court case.
            But I anticipate that, like you, he will continue to wonder about what occured, when he is older and will need some more of the truth to satisfy him.

          19. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, I can understand your course of action. Its extremely necessary to protect you and your son. Plus your son’s father is still in his life so you have to be very careful because of the whole parental alienation thing. I get it. I didn’t have a court battle with my narc husband and I didn’t want to cause alienation either. It turned out, they figured it out on there own. Your son will see it too.

          20. WhoCares says:

            I typed a response to you Leigh and WP said there was an error. So this is the second attempt: The main part of it was that you needn’t feel bad. I am not hurt, upset or offended by your comment. I just wanted to set the record straight.
            And having known the experience of escaping, I cannot help but hope others find the inner strength to leave.
            *Sorry if this a duplicate response.

          21. A Victor says:

            I could not, and would not, have done this when my kids were young. In fact, after my ex left, my dad once asked about us moving in together, I said there wasn’t a house big enough for me to live with my mom. He never mentioned it again. But then, because of him, it happened anyway. But my kids were much older by then, only one was still under 18. You need to protect your resources, as a single parent especially.

          22. WhoCares says:

            Understood, AV.
            If I was childless, I might have done things differently.

          23. A Victor says:

            Thank you for your kind words Joa. Also for your wise ones about me keeping internal distance from my mother. That is a great way to put it.

        2. A Victor says:

          WC, since recent videos HG has made I see much more the similarity you were referring to, it makes sense now. Thank you!

      2. Leigh says:

        AV, I think I remember Mr. Tudor once saying that the cadres is about preference. How the narcissist prefers to ensnare victims. Cerebral prefers using the brain, somatic uses the body, victim uses being a victim and elite uses brain and body.

        1. A Victor says:

          Oh yes, you’re correct, thank you!

        2. A Victor says:

          Thank you for this reminder, I had forgotten this.

  11. lickemtomorrow says:

    Yay … I got a trumpet blast on this 🙂

    I knew he was a mid ranger, partly due to his facade – lower makes sense since it was intermittent and his displays of fury were obvious – but also because he was a coward.

    If anything stands out to me about the mid rangers, that’s it. They’re cowards. They’re the passive aggressive nightmares who hide behind other people, just like Brian hid behind his parent’s and his lawyer. What could be more passive than not talking and more aggressive at the same time?

    Nothing compares to your ability to break these narcissists down into specific categories, HG.

    I always thought there was no need for me to discover my most recent narc’s school and cadre. I knew he was a narc and that was enough. Since being fortunate enough to have won one of your raffle prizes, which was the the Narc Detector Consult, I can now see the value of these. I couldn’t understand why I was hit so hard by that last encounter, but it turned out there was more to my narcissist than meets the eye. I had him pegged as a mid ranger, but not upper or elite.

    Also interesting that the choking or throttling is more likely associated with a mid range narcissist.

    Learn something new here every day.

    1. Leigh says:

      Hi LET, I was reading your comment on another thread about choking and it brought back a horrible memory that I had forgotten. I don’t even remember how it happened. We were in bed and my narc husband managed to get the blanket across my throat. I couldn’t say anything. I tried but couldn’t say anything. He eventually pulled the blanket off of me. He said he saw the look on my face and realized something was wrong.

      Mr. Tudor, what causes them to halt the choking? They are obviously getting potent fuel from us in that moment so is it the threatened loss of the primary source that stops them?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Control has been obtained and fuel received, therefore no need to continue with it.

        1. Leigh says:

          Of course. Thank you

      2. WhoCares says:


        “We were in bed and my narc husband managed to get the blanket across my throat. I couldn’t say anything. I tried but couldn’t say anything. He eventually pulled the blanket off of me. He said he saw the look on my face and realized something was wrong.”

        That’s so very scary and disturbing.
        I am glad you asked that question of HG.

        During the one violent altercation that occured with my mother, she had me pinned against the sliding mirrored hall closet doors of her condo. She was using so much force that I could feel the glass bowing behind my back. I closed my eyes because I knew that at any second the mirrored glass could shatter.
        I always thought she stopped at that moment because she realized that we both might get seriously injured.

        But maybe she had just felt that control had been obtained etc…
        At least it gave me a second to get out the door and escape down the condo hallway.

        1. Leigh says:

          WhoCares & Joa, at the time it happened, I thought it was an accident. We were laying in bed and he climbed on top of me. He had tightened the sheet across my throat. I was so naive. I believed it was an accident. I blocked the memory completely until I read the two threads where others are talking about being choked and then they memory came back. He tightened the sheet and held it there for a long time. That certainly was done on purpose.

        2. Asp Emp says:

          WhoCares, reading about what mother did / mirrors – wow, I am glad the mirror did not break. I can understand how scary it must have been in that moment. I hated the full length mirrors stuck on the wardrobes we had in our bedroom, ceramic handles too…..she knew I had a fear of glass (breaking) after an experience of being sat in a 7 tonne van windscreen breaking all over us all on a motorway! I was about 3 or 4.

          We had horrible mothers!

        3. lickemtomorrow says:

          WC, I’m sorry that happened to you, and the thought of the glass shattering sounds frightening. It could obviously cause an injury and even a serious one.

          It’s likely your mother realized she had regained control after she saw you close your eyes, as in preparing for the worst. She knew she had pushed you to the limit of your endurance.

          It is interesting how we look at it from an empath’s perspective, and assume the person assaulting us is concerned about serious injury to us. It’s more likely from their self centred perspective they know the damage caused could bring consequences for them as well, so maybe more about self preservation for them.

          I’m glad you were able to escape, and even if it only happens once it has the ability to leave a lasting scar or impression.

      3. Joa says:

        Leigh, something awful!!!

        The first Narcissus jerked me sometimes and strangled me once. After 7 years of relationship. This event became the biggest nail in the coffin of this relationship, which fell apart after 11 years (I could not part with his wonderful, warm, empathetic family right away). I hid traces of this stewing for almost 2 weeks (I have very delicate skin, bruises immediately appear).

        To this day, no one around him knows about it. I couldn’t hurt them, I preferred them to blame me. Lovely people. His mother was like my mother to me… His brothers, like my brothers… His grandmother, like my grandmother… They were very important to me. Parting with them was one of the most difficult decisions I made. But I couldn’t stand him anymore, he started to disgust me. The more I needed space, the more he forced. He couldn’t breathe me. Although for 7 years we have been so close…

        However, I must admit that he is an amazing charismatic man. Loved by crowds. My sister and most of my friends remember him fondly.

        But no one knows what clouds have obscured our wonderful inner microworld.

      4. lickemtomorrow says:

        Leigh, it’s amazing how memories come back to us here. It’s happened to me often. I think that’s because many of these I wouldn’t have shared with others before, simply because I would have seen them as too private and personal. If people are unaware, they certainly wouldn’t ask, so unless we tell them, all we are able to do is retain the memory as a source of information for future reference. We may never refer to it again, but at times there are prompts which cause the memory to come into focus again. What’s not always focused is how a situation came about, we just remember the fear of the moment and how it impacted us. That seems to be the case with what your husband did to you, and the way you describe it makes it sound as if even he was shocked. I do wonder at times if this element of fury also takes the narcissist by surprise, simply because they are unaware and don’t have a grasp on what triggered it. Being unable to self-reflect, they will ultimately feel justified and the fault will be ours, not theirs. It seems to have taken your husband a moment to compute what he was doing, not sure if he ever realized why, and now I’m wondering if he apologized.

        My ex-husband never apologized. I think I mentioned the first time (choking) he let me go and then ordered Chinese takeout for dinner. That was it. No further explanation, sorrow expressed, discussion to be had. As HG said, he had once again gained control and that was the end of that. The second time (slapping) once again never involved any of those things. I had gathered myself after I left the house and said what I needed to say before I left. It’s amazing how things can be returned to normal so quickly and thoroughly, obviously due to the narcissist’s ability to compartmentalize. For some reason, we don’t challenge that. In my case, the challenge or criticism came before (or was a prompt for) the ignition of fury. The ignition of fury told me all I needed to know about any further challenge or criticism.

        I think that’s where it all ends up and where we end up often. We accept life on the narcissist’s terms and such is the ‘contract’ we apparently have signed with them.

        1. Leigh says:

          LET, my narc husband has never once apologized to me. He’s grandiose and believes he is a God. That specific incident happened by accident. It wasn’t his intention to choke me, so he saw no need to apologize. I can’t remember what was going on beforehand so I can’t say for sure if I ignited his fury or not. I think what happened was when he saw me gasping for air, it fueled him and made him feel powerful and so he didn’t let go as quickly as he should have. Sick!

          Yes, there are often times things go unresolved and yet we just continue on like nothing has happened. I think it’s our need as empaths, to keep the peace.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Leigh, narc ex-husband never apologized to me as being a narcissist he was always right (in his own mind). That meant there was no need for an apology. Slapping me across the face, pinning me against the wall by my throat, these were deserved consequences for an ‘obvious’ transgression. What’s to apologize for? I was asking for it.

            That’s the mindset of the narcissist.

            While the most recent narc did apologize on occasion, it was obviously insincere and done only to lure me back in again. I didn’t realize that at the time and fell for it hook, line and sinker. There was always something unsatisfying about the apology at the same time. Each time it involved a backing down on my part and acceptance of his lame excuses.

            In terms of your experience, Leigh, I don’t know about ‘accidental’ but there’s no doubt he was fuelled by your reaction. It is sick. To think narcs will go to those lengths to feel in control. And that’s the problem for them, they need to be in control.

            And you’re right about us as empaths. We are inclined to want to keep the peace and will often do almost anything to satisfy that urge. No wonder the narcs love us (so to speak). We completely fulfil their criteria.

  12. Fiddleress says:

    Great prize, thank you, but I want the cigar too!

  13. A Victor says:

    Yes! That’s the one I thought! I never did find the poll? Anyway, great video, thank you again for doing these HG!

    1. WhoCares says:

      AV – I stumbled upon the poll accidentally – in the “Community” section of HG’s Ultra YT channel.
      I had guessed/voted LMRN too – just like my ex.

      1. A Victor says:

        Oh! That’s where it was! I never heard about it until I think it was already closed. But, I had guessed here already anyway, so I’m counting that! Yes, I remember you had also. I wasn’t 100% certain so confirmation was good. I wanted to somehow let the YT listeners know that what HG said in the “reveal” was in large part what you get when you purchase a NDC from him, laid out in the same fashion. But, I didn’t see a way to really do that, I really hate commenting there.

      2. A Victor says:

        Hi WC, hey, I wanted to thank you for our conversations about Wuthering Heights and the other various audio books. As a result, I have tried listening and been really happily surprised at the outcome. Sometimes, I can listen as I do mindless work of some sort but sometimes I have to really focus and what I have found is that getting the book out/purchasing it if I don’t own it, has been so good, it’s gotten me back into reading! I left reading when I had kids but it was a favorite pastime from my childhood and teen years. Now that they’re grown, I have time again! I am most thankful to you for those “talks”! They were encouraging!

  14. Asp Emp says:

    That was very interesting, HG. Applying the behaviours of narcissists and explaining how the cadres and the schools are identified using your system.

    I think you also described muvver to a T.

    She could not always maintain the ‘calm’ facade in public yet applied the ‘victim’ “explanation” to anyone within ear-shot. Even to my grandmother (who I suspect “believed” otherwise).

    She also needed to “quieten” the ‘beast’ with alcohol. Even after a heavy drinking sesh, she still needed to unleash her fury – acted it out physically. She picked on anything as an “excuse”. She never smashed anything inanimate. Maybe she hit my father, I never saw anything, nothing indicated that. He did not fear her at all.

    Thank you for this video, HG. Much appreciated 🙂

  15. MB says:

    Brilliant HG! I enjoy the true crime analyses more than the MM ones although I accept their necessity. The Chris Watts series was superb as well for those that haven’t availed themselves of that material.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you MB.

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