Questioning Me
Do feel free to ask me anything you like. I am here for you to dip into my mind and for you to benefit from learning how I view the world. No question is off limits and if you want to establish a dialogue with me, then so much the better. You will be helping me so I can show the treatment team that I am interacting with people in this setting. You can ask me why I do certain things, what am I thinking, what my favourite food is, whatever you like. This is your chance to extract as much knowledge and information from me as you possibly can. If you want to just make a statement, go ahead. Fill your boots. I don’t know you so I won’t fly into a rage (this does happen when people I know question me but that is because they have an agenda – you don’t because we don’t know one another). I look forward to hearing from you.
12,318 thoughts on “Questioning Me”
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The way you speak of yourself… the way you observe and deconstruct empaths, conjures the Sumerian myth of the Anunnaki…
Beings of crystalline logic, devoid of empathy, who watching their humans contemplate the moon, cry and commit suicide when their partner was suppressed, despite all potential replacements, were so intrigued by it that some injected themselves with that emotional component, creating hybrids between the 2 species…
Beautiful. But untrue. They can’t absorb the emotional component (Narcissists).
We can implant emotional self-control and logical self-control and utilize a clearer mind in a more socially beneficial way. Be careful. There’s a fine line.
PS And how did this legend end? What did the world of hybrids look like?
HG, I watched the 3 part BBC series on Catfisher Adele Rennie. I found it thoroughly interesting to hear what those who were impacted / involved had to say. Okay, not quite an ‘Angel of Death’, yet, Adele’s actions appear to continue over and over again. I am aware of your videos on stalking, online dating, character trait acquisition, hoovering, manipulation, seduction, devaluation. Is this a story you may consider covering as part of your work?
I have made a note.
Ooh Adele Rennie’s story is very odd, isn’t it Asp? 😬 Interesting how she targeted her victims.
Hello again HG and Bloglodytes,
I have a bit more on Mr.Biscuit’s demise.
A new bloke is on the street. He was already on my narc-dar, before he decided to latch on to my whole walk just after new year. Despite trying to shed him at a suitable juncture, he decided to walk ‘n’ talk the whole way. I was upset, so my boundaries were even worse than usual.
The link was made after we passed comments about the ice, then he blurted he was the one with Biscuit when he died. He’d walked with him across rugged terrain for about 8+ miles! By the end it was dark, freezing, lashing with rain and Biscuit was struggling and his horrible trackie pants got all wet (I saw pics). Near the end of the walk, he climbed over a fence into a pasture and lay on his back, saying, ‘Just leave me here!’ over and over.
Then he died.
The lack of clothing on his bottom half was due to being dragged away when still conscious!
I was hoping it had been a bit more interesting, but there we have it. He died as pathetically as he lived.
Next step: full boundaries with the new bloke! He’d already been showing dodgy signs in summer.
Thanks HG, you know that you rock, don’t you? Course you do.
So do the rest of you, from what I’ve gleaned.
Mari,
Well, I guess that tied up some loose ends; quite the sad ending though.
Biscuit bloke’s buddy definitely come across as presenting some red flags…you certainly have some quirky neighbours – or, perhaps you are simply a magnet for certain types!
Hello, WC! Biscuit Bloke’s buddy has a collie called Captain, who ran home when BB decided to die in a field :D.
The buddy thinks BB joined him on account of him having ciggies!
Biscuit could not cope without his lady friend, it was inevitable.
I have quirky neighbours alright. Great character studies up to a point, but moving is the plan!
Hi Mari, Mm, sounds wise to keep your distance. 🥷nice to see you again.
Hello, would this be Jade? Thank you very much! Had unforeseen demand over the festive period. 🙁
He talked about himself the whole way, but I think he mainly wanted to tell me about Sir Biscuit. Any further lack of boundary recognition and I’ll tell him straight.
Oh hello yes, Mari ..I have renamed myself 😄 you sound like you have it in hand ! ✊
Thank you Jade. A potential narc in the hand is worth two in the bush.
We’ll see Jade…I’m good at the talk.
Me too Mari 😄 I think spotting them is half the game, isn’t it?
Hi Mari,
What a very sad way to die. I feel a little sad for biscuit bloke.
Putting up a boundary with the new neighbor sounds like a good idea! I’d keep an eye on him for sure!
Hello Leigh,
It’s not very nice is it? Perhaps a consolation is that he wasn’t alone and he’d just done one of the loveliest walks in England, in my opinion! Shame the weather turned severely and it got dark, I suppose. I don’t think new bloke knew what he was doing. Turns out Biscuit had a daughter and her husband topped himself on the same cliffs. It’s a popular place for jumping in this county, sadly. Hope that’s cheered you up! There’s a man who patrols the worst part, looking for people contemplating a jump and another man, a long distance walker, who used to be employed to retrieve bodies of jumpers! You’re welcome.
Hi Mari, I watched a spanish film recently about a man who bought a house at a cliff edge with a lovely view.. but lots if “visitors” wanting to jump. 😬
Wow, Mari! You definitely live in an interesting area with some interesting neighbors! How ironic that Biscuit Bloke’s son in law died in the same area.
Good morrow, HG.
A rapper recently said he read Emotional Intelligence 2.0, which got me thinking.
Do you believe emotional intelligence can be convincingly performed in intimate relationships, even if it is not genuinely present? And if so, is such performance sustainable long-term?
From your perspective as The Ultra, could you maintain a convincing EQ façade indefinitely with an IPPS — or would it inevitably collapse?
More broadly: is EQ an innate trait, a learned skill, or merely a behavioural framework people imitate with varying success? Is it a meaningful construct, or relationship “by numbers” piffle?
Finally — do you consciously recognise and mimic EQ, or do you consider that greater narcissists and psychopaths may possess a cognitive form of EQ that simply differs from empathic EQ?
Your thoughts would be most interesting.
If we define emotional intelligence as :-
1. The ability to regulate one’s emotions;
2. The ability to read the emotions of others;
3. The ability to influence the emotions of others;
4. The application of emotional empathy
An individual such as me, can achieve items 1,2 and 3 successfully. Naturally, I cannot apply four and instead utilise cognitive empathy instead, which with a skilled practitioner such as myself would readily pass muster as EE even though it is CE.
Less sophisticated narcissists will exhibit flaws with regard to 1-3 concerning appearance and longevity and certain would either be unable to apply CE at all or would do so but in a flawed manner.
Thank you, Mr Tudor.
Your definition prompted a further reflection.
It seems to me that a cognitively adept but emotionally cold lover or friend, if sufficiently skilled and consistent, could in practice offer a more stable and congenial relationship than an empathic one who is frequently triggered, reactive, or emotionally dysregulated.
Which raises the question: what do people actually want?
A polished, reliable EQ performance without emotional volatility, or the authentic version, with empathy, warmth, triggers and emotional messiness included?
I like to believe I prefer the latter, though sometimes it is dreadful. And sometimes *I* am dreadful.
This is not a question for you, merely a small embellishment inspired by your response. Ta 🙂
There is force in your observation, however, the greater the cognitive adeptness the greater the need for stimulation. Accordingly, there comes the inevitable point whereby the game must turn to harm.
I will show you the stars and you will marvel at their beauty and then, just because I can, I will extinguish them to bring forth your horror and sorrow because I need to see it.
Oh, yuck. Thank you for that HG.
I expect nothing less from The Ultra.
I still wonder whether a normal, with sufficient awareness of EQ through study and self-observation, might manage to fake it well enough to sustain a relationship until death did them part. Even that, I suspect, would require a relatively high level of cognition.
I am less convinced a normal could manage it long-term, given their inherent duality. Whereas I assume every high-cognition narcissist or psychopath would inevitably dismantle the status quo, though in your case I imagine the destruction would be… The Ultra Destruction.
“Spider-them, spider-them, does whatever a spider-them can.” Hysterical! I was driving when I heard it. I must’ve looked like a lunatic, I was laughing so hard! I love that you’re deadpan. It makes it even funnier!
Hello Leigh, I concur. Very funny! I winced, cringed and ‘lolled’ at that vid.
“It costs nothing to be polite.”
I’ve been thinking about this, Who Cares, and about whether there can be costs to being polite. I don’t disagree with you, but i feel like there are some exceptions to the rule.
Your statement got me thinking but my response is just a general comment.
Seeing as blog participants sometimes say they wish the discussions were more concentrated on narcissism, I’ll focus on the narcissist and those directly connected to them. Obvs a narcissist needs negative fuel as well as positive fuel, so if they were only ever polite, they’d miss fuelling opportunities. Naturally there’d be a cost to a narcissist from always being polite.
But what of those who exist in a narcissist’s orbit, hoping to secure or maintain a position of association or proximity or favour? Those HG refers to as minions or lieutenants? There can also be costs to politeness for them if they gain something they value by being agents of destruction for the narcissist. Lieutenants don’t have to be narcissists. I am pretty sure they can be anywhere along the spectrum from narcissist to empath.
The article – Minions of Darkness : The Narcissist´s Use of Lieutenants, describes lieutenants in their destructive ‘crow’ phase, where they participate in the narcissist’s devaluation (bidden or unbidden, as I understand it) as noisy, dark and petulant. The crows/lieutenants must act malevolently since it’s this that wins the attention and favour of the narcissist.
This comment is long because I’ve taken a few chunky excerpts from the article and added them here. Reading them all paints an uncompromising picture of how lieutenants are required to behave to earn the coveted spoils.
“Noisy, dark and petulant my crows will descend on you as I commence my devaluation of you. …. My crows act at my command as they, like you, relish any opportunity to gain my favour and attention.”
“Some of my minions do not realise that they have been manipulated into doing what I want. Instead they carry out my instructions in an oblivious fashion. Others are well aware that they act as my agents of destruction but they revel in this role.…. They recognise you as the enemy who …. must be destroyed.”
“My crows are unleashed to perpetuate the devaluation against you. My dark minions come forth in order to do my bidding. The crows flap around you, their dark wings making it difficult for you to see clearly. Their incessant squawking fills your ears as they scold you for your treason. My crows move quickly, announcing to your support network the terrible way you have behaved and before they can be struck down they fly away to flap around you once more, their cacophony of insults swirling about you. This near constant noise of insult and vitriol has all been fed to them by me.”
“Like dark messengers they repeatedly assail you with their name calling and lies, making you anxious as you are under sustained attack. You try and swipe them to one side but they merely dodge your attempts and continue to mock you. As you grow weaker from these repeated assaults they fly closer and then begin to peck at you. ….The crows land on your shoulder and with vicious beaks peck away something more of you …. More crows come, ordered by me to continue this campaign against you.”
There might be no cost of being polite to a non-lieutenant, but it seems to be the case that narcissists and lieutenants need to be impolite to get what they want (fuel or the attention/favour of the narcissist) and anything else would appear to be a significant sacrifice for them.
This is interesting, AA. I hope you don’t mind me jumping in. Yes empaths can be lieutenants because I’m a lieutenant. In the past, I fell into, “Some of my minions do not realise that they have been manipulated into doing what I want. Instead they carry out my instructions in an oblivious fashion.”
You’ve got me thinking about what happens when I ride into battle to defend the narcissist. Could I be impolite? Sadly, the answer to that is yes. Its not because I want to gain favor with the narcissist though. Its because I truly believe the narcissist has been wronged and I feel compelled to defend him or her.
In my case, it did cost me something to be impolite & defend the narcissist. It cost me some self respect. Hindsight is 20/20 though. Now I try to limit defending the narcissist, but if I have to defend them, I do try to be civil.
“It’s not because I want to gain favor with the narcissist though. Its because I truly believe the narcissist has been wronged and I feel compelled to defend him or her.”
If you’re not trying to gain favour with the narcissist (or benefit somehow) I don’t think you’re a lieutenant. Lieutenants aren’t just nice people who stick up for anyone they feel is hard done by. They act in service of narcissists. Lieutenants do stuff the narcissist wants done or which they think the narcissist wants done. So those things get done, the narcissist keeps their hands clean, and it’s a win for the narcissist.
(Of course you may have been defending narcissists because you’d learnt that not to do so would’ve had consequences later. That’d of course be manipulation, and on them.)
“In my case, it did cost me something to be impolite & defend the narcissist.”
There’s always a cost to impoliteness. Generally it’s that people think you’re unpleasant.
It’s just that for narcissists and lieutenants, there’s a benefit as well because they either gain fuel or power or they win coveted approval.
I could be wrong, but don’t get the feeling you’re a lieutenant, Leigh, even if you sometimes get a bit rude or defend people (family members for instance) who may be narcissists now and then.
Annaamel,
I did not defend the narcs in my life to gain favor with them. I did it because at the time I felt it was the right thing to do. I was deluded. But my mind wasn’t thinking about their response when I did it, I was too busy defending to consider how they would see it. And I didn’t care, it was what I felt was right to do in that moment.
Hi AA,
I’m definitely a lieutenant. I would even classify myself as a top lieutenant. I said that because I’m the one used most often.
Maybe on a subconscious level I was looking for favor? But I don’t think its favor per se. I think it’s a way of trying to avoid repercussions for not carrying out my duties.
I have to look through the blog but I’m 99% sure I asked Mr. Tudor and he confirmed that I was a lieutenant. My understanding is that anyone who does the bidding for the narcissist is a lieutenant or a minion.
Do you remember when Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars? All Jada had to do was shoot Will a look and he got up and took care of business. That’s me.
As for being a dog with a bone. Yes, I’ve been told that. But I also know myself. It can be hard for me to let things go.
Hi Leigh,
Sorry to be confusing popping back so quickly. 😅 trying to find the balance here but didn’t want to just “disappear” one day as I don’t like that.
With this though, I wonder if HGs saying that “any interaction by a narcissist is manipulation” applies. So anytime we are interacting with a narcissist and another person, there will be triangulation etc 🤔 I have stuck up for a narcissist even when I knew what they were if it seemed “right” in that scenario but the other person could then potentially see us as a lieutenant. I guess why the ideal is NC 🤔 though not always possible… If in contact we have to have “normal” interactions but which could strictly fall under the category of “lieutenant”.
Hi Two,
I totally understand the allure of the blog! You’ll find your happy medium!
“As for being a dog with a bone. Yes, I’ve been told that. But I also know myself. It can be hard for me to let things go.”
I am assuming it wasn’t said to you as a compliment, Leigh, and I think you don’t use it as a compliment either. You generally say it after someone else has suggested they haven’t liked what you’re saying or that they think it’s been inappropriate to discuss something.
I don’t like seeing you write that that you’re a dog with a bone because I see it as you putting yourself down.
It’s okay to have an opinion. It’s okay to stand your ground. It’s okay to argue. That’s not being a dog with a bone and anyone saying that to you possibly has an agenda that you ‘re challenging. You don’t have to please other people and you’re not in the wrong just because someone else thinks you are.
AA, I appreciate uour kind words.
I am a dog with a bone though. I’m tenacious. I don’t see my tenacity as a bad thing. But I know my tenacity can irritate people. That’s why I apologize.
I suppose I don’t need to apologize though. If they don’t like my tenacity maybe thats there issue then.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You’ve given me some food for thought.
Thanks Leigh. I ventured out into the wild west of the internet recently and found an interesting coach talking about narcissism. Some good insights and points from personal experience but then there was talk in the comments about Dr R being great and narcs knowing what they’re doing re smirking. Once you’ve had HGs education it’s hard to go back. I left a few messages pointing them in the right direction.
I’ve now disabled emails so just check the blog which is helping too. Also, you just don’t get this knowledge and understanding elsewhere, do you? It also seemed a weird time to leave when the conflict has died down and I’m getting to know people here!
Anyway.. I’ll find my happy medium. ✊
Hi Two,
Be careful with the wild west of the internet. There’s a lot of nonsense out there.
I saw your comment on the Stare thread about you turning off your notifications. I responded there. I do the sane thing though.
That’s a good point AA (addressed to Leigh but useful to read what you wrote).
I agree re the wild west Leigh! I know which sources I trust and those I don’t, I just came across this person on YT but a lot of the narcissist information is either basic or wrong isn’t it? I only come here now otherwise. Yes.. turning comments off has definitely helped!
Hi Jade,
Be careful of Dr. R. We call her Dr. Plagiarizer because she plagiarizes Mr. Tudor’s work. But she also adds to it which makes what she’s saying inaccurate.
Thank you Leigh. Ive been aware of Dr R (P) for a few years, never watched any of her stuff or RG. I also got narc vibes from a smaller influencer, the black sheep survives.
I’ve only really liked Shahida Arabi and Kris Godinez from the empathy side. So many people talking about this topic set off alarm bells for me!
Hi Leigh,
I think it often might cost something to defend the narcissist, whether we’re impolite in doing so or not. I don’t think we may realize it’s cost us though. I think people can pick up on narcissists sometimes when those who are ensnared might not. There were people who picked up on my parents and my ex’s long before I did. So whenever I acted for them, I think it made people wonder about me also. Maybe not as a narcissist but as a person who was not healthy. I did not stand up for them impolitely, except one time, which I regret to this day. But I know that people questioned some of the choices I made regarding them at times.
Hi AV & Two,
I think both of you are on a similar wavelength here.
Two, when we’re dealing with a narc & someone else, I agree that there’s some triangulation at play. I don’t now if they would use the word lieutenant though. I think it’s more along the lines of what AV said. They may question why we’re defending that person.
AV, I agree that we didn’t always know what it would cost us when we defended the narc. I haven’t had those moments where people have acknowledged that they recognized there’s something not right about my narc husband. Probably because I’m still with him. I often wonder what people think though.
I agree Leigh and AV.
Re your husband Leigh, I’ve wondered that about my mum particularly with extended family of my dad’s. I wouldn’t broach it but neither would they.
Hi Leigh,
I know your husband is a victim narc. I think that’s an important point to consider. Couple the victimhood of the narcissist and the justice trait of the empath and you have a recipe for disaster. Empath buys in to the victimhood and feels driven to defend thanks to the justice trait.
Every narcissist wears the victim’s cloak – it’s clear to see once we have received out narc education – some just use it like matadors and the justice trait becomes the raging bull charging straight at it!
Part and parcel of the addiction. If you were a lieutenant for your husband, I think it’s justice that would likely be the greatest driver, particularly given your respective cadres.
Hi TS,
I think you hit the nail on the head there. I would agree that my justice trait is triggered & I feel compelled to get justice for him.
Its not just my husband though. I often rode into battle for my ex best friend as well. I’m sure it was my justice trait that was triggered their too.
Hi Annaamel.
Interesting topic you’ve raised. Lieutenants can be polite. It would actually be better for the narcissist if they were because they could reframe it as “we are polite and you are the crazy one” for seeing through the facade. It’s more insidious in my opinion because it’s covert and plausibly deniable. They make the narcissist look good while subtly patronizing others, status signaling, playing hierarchy games to maintain the structure for the narcissist.
I think a greater narcissists lieutenants would actually be polite. And they get to feel morally superior for doing so. They are elevated in status and proximity to the narcissist and it doesn’t even occur to them that what they are doing is harmful to the narcissists victims, because they just keep telling themselves they are polite and they can continue to enjoy their position in the hierarchy without a guilty conscience.
My guess, if they were even an empath would be a codependent. It’s like a cult. All smiles with a knife in your back.
Hi Annaamel,
Your thoughts here are interesting particularly given that I have been accused (directly and indirectly) of being a lieutenant myself.
Something that I had been considering separately that might also tie in to your thinking. Is it the case that empaths find a more obvious and direct provocation more offensive than one which is passive aggressive? Is the former viewed as unacceptable and the latter acceptable?
Given the varying exposure to narcs of different schools, are some empaths more sensitive to one form of provocation than the other? Do they pick up on both types equally?
Hi TS,
Are the provocations malign or benign? I think direct provocation & passive aggressiveness can be both malign & benign.
My father used a direct approach. My mother uses passive aggression & more covert manipulations. My narc husband uses both. I’m pretty good at spotting both.
Based on the provocations being malign or benign, thats how I decide how to react. That’s how I deem if its acceptable or not.
Take Mr. Tudor for example. When he posts an article or a video he’s directly provoking us. The objective is for readers to like it & discuss it. Its benign so my reaction will also be benign.
I do understand what you’re saying though. Based on what an empath has dealt with in the past, that would determine how they sees things now.
Hi Leigh,
I’m similar, I view malign provocations as equally negative irrespective of whether they are direct or passive aggressive. I use the same tactics to deal with both but I’m angered more by passive aggression. ( Probably due to seeing my mum in action.)
My daughter is different. She doesn’t always notice my mum’s passive aggression, particularly if it’s wrapped up in a pity play, which it often is. When she does recognise passive aggressive provocation, my daughter’s response is closer to one of dismissal. She’s definitely irritated but more likely either not to respond at all, or, she will purposely direct her attention (and fuel) elsewhere.
Alternatively, on the rare occasions where she has faced direct provocation from her dad (narcissistic) she spots that immediately and reacts immediately. She’s very verbal and I’m almost certain she has a sizeable contagion element, so she knows the weak spots to target. Both will escalate and rapidly. It’s a very gloves off approach but it’s the speed of escalation which is most noticeable.
So in my daughters case, she doesn’t recognise passive aggressive provocation in the same way and, she reacts very differently to that versus direct provocation.
Moving to Annaamel’s point about lieutenants, I would imagine that different schools of narcissist recruit different types of lieutenant. I don’t know, this is just assumption. So whilst in the article the lieutenants are portrayed as using direct provocation I’m not sure that this is a prerequisite for lieutenant behaviour. A lieutenant might conceivably use passive aggression to devalue if the lead narcissist leans to passive aggression themselves. Depending on the empath, one approach might potentially be more impactful / damaging than the other.
Joining in here TS and Leigh if that’s ok.. yes, I can imagine HGs lieutenants using direct and indirect provocation.. definitely more sophisticated than unawares.
Also, I never used to be see passive aggression very well or only once it had been delivered and the person or narcissist, long gone unfortunately. I realised around 5 years ago that whilst direct aggression really freaks me out as mentioned in the “jailbird” thread today, passive aggression has been my nemesis. That’s what most of the people I’ve been entangled with have used. I’m much more “on it” now and am getting better at spotting it. I used to feel bad that I wasn’t more assertive but realised whilst I can be and am nowadays, I’m a generally non conflict type so just staying away from people who behave like this as a pattern (of course we can all be PA sometimes). Also, I think women use it more in my experience, and I’ve dealt with more women narcissists then men too. It’s interesting how these things evolve as we heal.
I don’t like unwarranted aggression (sometimes we have to be aggressive) but beginning to appreciate that at least its obvious…
Hi Two,
Absolutely agree that anyone can use passive aggression, it isn’t specific to narcissists. I think it likely originates from narcissists though. Or maybe it’s a linguistic thing, something that developed as tribes grew larger and language became more sophisticated. I can’t imagine there being too much passive aggression in the caves, haha!
Coincidentally, I went round to my mum’s this afternoon, I hadn’t seen her since Christmas or spoken to her since her pity playing New Years text message.
Bang on cue. Passive aggression at my failure to call or visit sooner, wrapped up in a pity play “I worry that one day I’ll phone or text and no one will answer.”
She was on sparkling form today, a full array of manipulations. I’m obviously painted black.
Another three weeks it is then!
That’s interesting, TS. I’m more angered by passive aggression too. I can almost respect someone whose direct. I have a strong opinion about people who use passive aggression on a regular basis. That’s not to say that I haven’t been passive aggressive at times too. But when its someone’s normal modus operandi, it irritates me.
Your daughter sounds similar to my daughter. When its a direct provocation, it can escalate quickly as well. She doesn’t always see the passive aggression either. But I think that’s something she will learn with age. She can also be dismissive. I’ve seen her do both. My daughter is high in defiance. Maybe that’s at play with your daughter too.
Hi Jade,
Direct aggression doesn’t freak me out at all. My father was direct. My mom was the passive aggressive one. She would use my father’s directness as a tool to hurt us. I think that’s why I have such an antipathy for passive aggression.
I agree. I don’t like unwarranted aggression either. I very much prefer being kumbaya, lol. But sometimes I get a bee in a bonnet too.
Hi TS,
I forgot to respond to your point about lieutenants. For myself, I used a direct approach when acting as a lieutenant. But I can definitely see how a passive aggressive approach could be used as well. I prefer directness in all my interactions though. I find when I’m not direct, it becomes confusing. I need things to be clear cut.
Yes, TS. Your mum had her tool belt of manipulations at the ready! It’s ironic though, they want attention but just make us want to see them less. When I went to my mum’s house for my dad’s funeral, my mum took about ten minutes to answer the door. I *know* she did that on purpose, “keep her waiting, the defector”! the house isn’t that big. I ignored it, but they are incredible aren’t they?!
Ps I like your comment to bubbles about buying your mum a turning pedestal! Maybe some of us here could get together to do a bulk order for our “narcs”!! 😂
HI Leigh,
My dad would get very angry when I was little and it freaked me out, any sniff of that and my radars off. Not a bad thing actually I’m learning but also realising it’s ok to be angry too.. anger in itself isn’t a problem and is an emotion we all need. It’s interesting with PA, that was the one I could never see that well in people till recently unless very obvious, I think because that’s my family’s MO.
I don’t think a bee in your bonnet is bad sometimes though, I can be like that too. I realise I sometimes get a bit more feisty about unfairness to others than myself but try to stick up both ways nowadays. I wish others had done that for me in the past.
I find it interesting here too. There’s been some direct aggression but a lot of passive too, maybe because we’re female heavy. I am trying to be assertive in a direct way, a work in progress.
Hi Leigh,
I didn’t know what passive aggressive was until I was here and HG explained it to me. And I discovered I used it, a lot. I used it because, as with other defensive, self preservation behaviors, I was afraid to be direct. Since learning about it, I have tried to be more conscious of when I’m tempted to use it and decide if I really want to or if I need to take a risk and be direct. I don’t like it, the way it was used against me or how I feel when I use it, so I generally have tried to be more direct. But, due to my own experience, just because someone does it, I don’t instantly jump to narcissist. Instead I try to give them a safe place to not need to use it and see how it goes.
Hi AV,
“I try to give them a safe place to not need to use it and see how it goes.” – I love this, AV! I think its gets under my skin because it was a tool my mother used most frequently. I know that non narcs can be passive aggressive at times though too. I love your approach to it. If they feel safe, there’s no need to be passive aggressive!
Hi Two,
My Dad would get angry too but didn’t raise his voice. He often just came out of nowhere. But I grew numb to it. It was like aversion therapy. My mom is a yeller. They would fight all the time. That was also aversion therapy. Its why conflict doesn’t bother me.
I don’t know if the passive aggressiveness is a female thing. I know some males who can be that way too. I think its more a long the lines of what AV said. I think its a self defense mechanism and I think people use it when they don’t feel safe enough to be direct.
Yes, I can get feisty about unfairness too! LOL! The word feisty made me giggle!
Hi Leigh,
Yes, I prefer direct but I also think that’s because it’s what I see most of in my daily life. Yes, I would say stubborn for my daughter but it’s likely defiance. I agree also that it often takes a little more life experience and exposure before people recognise passive aggression. I recognise it because I had my mum using it repeatedly but I also had the contrast of my dad and particularly my grandma who was extremely direct. If I hadn’t spent as much time with my grandma as a kid, I might not have spotted it too well at all.
Yes, I would agree that ‘direct’ tracks with you so if you were a lieutenant that would make sense.
I think that’s in part what passive aggression is designed to do, muddy the waters, confuse and leave space for plausible deniability.
I don’t seem to have developed any aversion therapy Leigh 🤷♀️😅 I am a bit better tho with age. I thought for a long time I had social anxiety which I can at times but it’s particular to conflict. Partly why I used to find it hard to be assertive.
And this is my stuff, not yours lovely AV, but I didn’t sleep properly thinking about our crossed wires. 🤦♀️That’s how it gets for me even with “safe” people. It’s crazy I think compared to anyone else I’ve ever spoken to lol! I’m not sure if “practicing” here with this is the best thing. 🤔 Is anyone else as crazy with this type of thing, as me lol?! I think a mix of nature and nurture…
I agree. I don’t think PA is a female thing per se, definitely men too and i liked that AV said a lot on this too. I just think some women can be socialised to be less direct with their aggression.
Hi TS & Two
TS says, “I think that’s in part what passive aggression is designed to do, muddy the waters, confuse and leave space for plausible deniability.”
I think that’s very true and probably why I have a strong reaction to it. I like things being clear.
Hi Two,
You’re not alone. I’m an overthinker too.
You make a valid point about women being taught to hide their aggression. I hadn’t thought of that. Just like men have been taught not to cry. Only men are allowed to get angry, women should be demure. Its the complete opposite for me.
Haha Leigh! I don’t get angry very often but I’m not particularly “demure” either. I think it’s overrated tbh 😉
I think HG has said more women are mid rangers and more men lessers which would fit with this too.
Hello Annameel:
But if a crow announced the terrible way I behaved, scolded me, name called to me or lied… or descended on me. I think I would eat crow pie and not just “ eat crow.” lol I would not be polite.
I guess if you didn’t know any better, you could be misled once. But that crow would then not be welcome in my orbit.
By the way, I love crows. I once helped a crow rescue. They are highly intelligent, recognize voices and use tools. I once had a weird experience. I would talk to them. I called the one, Beaks, I don’t know why and I would throw bread. Sometimes a group would come. One day it was like a dance… I would throw bread and one of the group would come, then throw another piece and another separate crow would come and so on… they way they swooped was beautiful. I wish I filmed it. Only once but I will never forget it. I have a Black Phoebe who hangs around. I call him Rumbles as he once flew into my house. My then marine was home on leave upstairs… um… using the toilet when the bird attacked his head from the shower. My son came downstairs and said “Mom, there is a bird in my bathroom.” I said “ Don’t hurt it, it’s probably Rumbles.” Sure enough. There he sat on the shower curtain rod. We got a net and set him free. He still hangs around. I leave him mealy worms on the outdoor trash separated by a fence to my small coy pond and greet him often with “ Cheep cheep.” That’s how he sounds….
Hi annamel,
““It costs nothing to be polite.”
I’ve been thinking about this, Who Cares, and about whether there can be costs to being polite. I don’t disagree with you, but i feel like there are some exceptions to the rule.”
I have, in turn, been thinking about your response…and see your comment has generated some interesting conversation. I don’t really have a reply related to the issue of lieutenants. Also, I suppose that, reflecting back, I was implying being “polite” in conversation. But, if taken very generally, I can see where being too polite has a cost. I know of instances, in my own life, where I have been so polite (so as to not interrupt, or to come across as ‘demanding’) that I failed to speak up for something that I really needed…or failed to advocate for myself and therefore, I lost out and there was a cost to me. Or I was drowned out by those of a more “squeaky wheel gets the grease” types.
Thinking on this: I do very much appreciate this space, HG, where you allow us to have a voice.
I identified with what you shared WC. I am finding it easier to say my bit as I get older though, for myself and others. I agree re this space of HGs, it definitely helps to say what we need to say here.
WC,
I agree with this entirely. This space has slowed me to find my voice.
That said, we all arrive here from a different place, with different needs
Allowed me to find my voice, not slowed me to.
I like hearing about the progress yourself and other commenters have made over time, AV. Part of the reason I wonder about staying here is a concern that I’m “too focused” on narcissism. But you realise from HG, that there’s so much to learn, about others and ourselves, don’t you? Plus as you and WC shared, it is a place where we can be understood. I find it easier to connect with others that at least understand what narcissism is, these days. Life’s never quite the same once you’ve “seen beyond the veil”.. 🤔
Two,
If you were to go back and read the threads from when I first arrived through the first three years or so, you would realize how all absorbed I was then also! It was possibly not healthy but it was necessary. I was thankful to have a time in my life conducive to spending so much time learning, I truly needed it. You are correct, things will never be the same once we know, that’s a great thing.
I do agree that it’s necessary AV. I felt like I’d got most of it out of my system and then found HG, and as I’ve mentioned.. it feels like a whole other level. I think it’s part academic curiosity now and part ensuring I stay good in future. Like you I’m glad I can learn this stuff though. A nice by product is also validating the clients I work with when they talk about ensnarement, even if they don’t realise what it is yet. Like a lot of us I came across quite a few fuck wit counsellors saying things like “that’s what parents do” etc. it is vital information for so many.
“i can see where being too polite has a cost. I know of instances, in my own life, where I have been so polite (so as to not interrupt, or to come across as ‘demanding’) that I failed to speak up for something that I really needed…or failed to advocate for myself and therefore, I lost out and there was a cost to me.”
Hi WC, I saw a review of a book by an FBI profiler educating people on how to avoid dangerous situations and people and politeness was mentioned as an understandable weakness when it overrode instinct. It’s something I’m working on too. I haven’t come across many dangerous situations (that I’m aware of at least 👀) but even with smaller situations, I’m less likely to be polite if someone walks over my boundaries. I’m surprised how much easier it is than I thought when younger though, a lot of time I find I don’t need to be”impolite” as such sbc avoiding situations with known irritants helps. 😄
Two,
“politeness was mentioned as an understandable weakness when it overrode instinct”
I have heard this before also and I think it is directly related to empaths. Many of us anyway.
Many of us have been taught, through growing up with narcissists, to override our instincts, in an effort to keep the peace. It was self preservation at the time, really messed up because them those same instincts of self preservation don’t work on anyone else either. This was true of me. It is extremely difficult to overcome, doable, but not easy. Narc parents can really do a number on us.
Yes you’re so right, AV. not long before I realised about my mum and narcissism generally, I spoke to my mum about a difficult co-worker (who I’m sure was a narc) and she said “oh just try harder with her, go and talk to her next time you see her”.
I realised later her advice was usually the opposite of what someone should do in any situation! She also said the same when my adult friends ganged up on me! she really primed me to keep trying, keep being “nice”. I don’t take any advice from her now so I’ve learnt that lesson! You’re right.. it suits turn to override our self preservation.. because if we develop that, we’d be on to them too!
Two,
I’m almost happy for you reading that comment. My training was much younger and much harsher. But you do understand via experience, I am sad for you for that.
Dear AV,
I can well n truly relate to your comment AV
Being polite was survival, if we opened our mouths, we got punished, even if we were in the right.
Healthy debates or opinions were never an option, even as I grew older. That song by Katrina and the Waves “Walking on Sunshine” for me was “Walking on Egg Shells”, wooah !
“It costs nothing to be polite” has become a very interesting topic.
Thank you lovelies for exploring and going deeper and giving thoughts to a whole new meaning rather than just a throwaway statement.
Sadly, we are living in a world of people being extraordinarily disrespectful to each other and right now, it appears to have become the norm.
Hi Bubbles,
I hope this isn’t a repeat, my cat was on my desk and my first attempt at this comment was gone when I came back!
Anyway, you get it, the eggshells! Even when we were right, and we learned early not to say anything. The good news was that, for some of us anyway, we knew we were right and it was just a matter of time until we’d be free from them. For some of us, we left only to be caught by another. Thank goodness for HG.
My mother recently tried to excuse her abuse on the stress of living with my dad’s drinking. Seriously? In reality, as we know, it was all about her prime aims. I said no, I didn’t do it, didn’t even think to do it, to my children, with at least as much stress in my life at that time. She stopped talking. Thank goodness. I left, it’s all a manipulation anyway.
I’m glad we survived Bubbles! All here who have!
Thank you AV. I don’t think many people would believe me if I told them about my mum and tbh I didn’t see it till my mid forties. I think WN said it well in the parental impact thread, mine was like hers, “an iron fist in a velvet glove”.. we didn’t even realise what was happening. 🙃 I felt like I’d received “abuse lite” for a long time and didn’t feel I could talk about it compared to others which has it worst than me but came to realise there’s no such thing as mild abuse. I’m sorry for you too AV. ❤️ It seems to me that the softest hearts are often the ones with these parents (even if we don’t look soft on the surface!). I do think we learn so much on this path but surely there’s an easier way lol 😅
Ps AV, I have been reading some of what you shared about your upbringing in older threads and the eye contact you received/ didn’t receive as a child. I obvs only “know” you here, but I have to say you’re a credit to yourself. ❤️ You’ve stopped the cycle. ✊
Two,
Thank you for sharing, you are right, the it’s no such thing as mild abuse, only abuse that is more difficult to detect. It can be insidious and make us think we cannot be correct. I am sad this happened to you. I feel terrible for minimizing it before, there was no need for that and I should not have done it. I recently was promoted to read Black Flag again, there are so many varieties of abuse and none minimal to the abused. What happened to you was real and I’m glad you’re here.
Thank you for your kind words also.
Haha, I was not “promoted” to read Black Flash again, though that’s what my phone thought, rather I was prompted to read it again.
Thank you AV. I appreciate that. 🙏It seemed we got a bit tangled up yesterday. 😅 All good. It was a good exercise in a way, as I just said that I needed to say which 5 years ago I wouldn’t have done. I hate hearing all the shitty things that have happened to some of us. It’s weird too when it can be quite a spectrum.
Can I just check, was it in reaction to my confusing message about my being perfect?
Hi all,
I think I open up a lot here as I want to learn as much as possible but am getting that old feeling like people use that against me. An easy target. Maybe a learning curve for me, I don’t know. I’ve spent 6 years learning what’s happened to me re FOO and the ripple effects it’s had in all my relationships and am finally learning to validate myself. And i haven’t shared everything here. There’s a lot of physical abuse stuff I haven’t wanted to talk about.
I try and keep the peace and accept apologies when they are given but actually I realise I still do it to my detriment and actually I have been pissed off at the comments about “enjoying” finding people who are narcissists in my life from Arya and feeling happy for me when I shared about abuse, from AV.
I am trying to not just shut down which is why I dealt with it with Arya and why I’m dealing with it with AV but also saying what I really feel now. And I don’t want to be ungracious about apologies either .. we all misread things or misspeak and I know my confusing message might have prompted it recently but I do think, why say these things in the first place? We all have things going on in our lives that we don’t share here. Press pause. We have emotional empathy.
One comment like that does cancel out a lot of goodwill from any previous supportive comments, for me, rightly or wrongly. I try not to let it, but it does and I don’t feel safe, or like I want to share anymore. It feels like my family all over again. I’m not fully sure why I’m saying this as I may leave the blog anyway, but I don’t want to go off in a “huff” and it felt important to be honest, if not for my sake, for someone else’s here.
So much abuse relates to the deniable stuff. This is a lot of what HG teaches us about. The “subtle tells” and whereas before learning about narcissism I used to feel embarrassed about “being sensitive” and “taking things to heart”.. like being treated badly was my fault, 🤦♀️ I realise these little knives in the back are where it always starts, the “small” abuse and the “big’ and I don’t deserve it, full stop, as much as anyone else would. I don’t feel embarrassed anymore though I did briefly yesterday.. my old pattern. I feel proud that I feel things deeply even though it’s not always easy and that I’m turning into the kind of person that stands up for that’s right for myself and others too rather than just people pleasing.
So that’s my piece. This isn’t me having a go at you AV btw, I’m not trying to prolong anything and you also acknowledged a lot of what I’m saying in your apology which I did genuinely appreciate. I know we’re all different kind of empaths but I find the dumping on others I see here, towards myself and others perplexing as it just creates more issues in the long run. I just don’t understand it.
Anyway, as I’ve kind of taken the opportunity on the blog to try and make sense of the loose ends in my life with HGs deeper education, I decided to continue in that vein.
Hi two, I read your comment here and your first sentence – I can totally understand the part about people using it against you. I also understand not wanting to talk about the physical abuse you endured. I’ve talked about it on this blog. There are always ‘triggers’ to ‘remind’ yet using HG’s work in the way it is intended for, gives people tools to find their own ways of developing a different way to look at / feel about things (from Albert Einstein’s quote).
I understand when you say “trying to not just shut down”, some people may experience this far more often than other people can ‘see’ (or, won’t ‘see’ – it depends on what those people are). Some people were ‘trained’ not to speak up and absorb the hurts that can accrue over time, including, if any, major trauma(s) that may occcur from a young age.
It was only by using HG’s work, that I found a way of ‘accessing’ those accrued hurts to be able to process them in a way that previous (around 10 sessions in total) therapy did not. One therapist gave me the right answer in relation to a narcissist at work and matrinarc but the word narcissism / narcissist was not used by that therapist. Finding out about my neurological diversity much later in life formed part of the answer I was seeking to understanding myself better. The final pieces of the puzzle was / is in HG’s work.
Some of us are very sensitive in nature because of the past / present ‘triggers’ and the genetic make-up, the type of empaths, so many factors to consider. Have you done your EDC? It gives you measurements of your schools / cadres. I have not shared my results as a form of protection (and as guided by HG’s rules of confidentiality).
You do appear to have a lot of understanding about what abuse is and therefore can ‘see’ where it could be implied as such. What you say in paragraphs 4 & 5 makes a lot of sense to me. I do understand.
There is no need to leave the blog for the reasons you have given. I felt like you in the past. I stayed because I needed to build up on the resilience as an individual (and partly because the people around me did not quite understand from my perspective because they did not have the same life experiences as I did).
Kudos to your decision to continue with developing a stronger understanding of yourself (and other people) x (sorry it’s a very long comment, thank you HG for moderating).
Hi Two,
I want to try and be the peacemaker here. I hope that’s ok. Sometimes empaths make boo boos too.
I think part of the problem with empaths is that we’re broken. I know I am. We’ve been conditioned to respond a certain way. If we’re double ACONs, we might even struggle with reacting in an appropriate way because we may copy how our narcissists parents might react. We may have CPTSD and something triggers a certain reaction in us.
AV has been such an instrumental person in my healing process. Please don’t feel like she was using your situation against you. I would imagine she felt terrible and that’s why she apologized.
I hope you both can reach a reconciliation.
Hi two, in order to understand better my EDC results, I found HG’s videos ‘The (school / cadre) Empath’ extrememly resourceful, these are in the Playlist ‘The Empath’ on his ‘The Ultra’ channel.
Thank you for your transparency Two.
We are in much the same place it seems, in some ways.
I accept that it appears to you that I have dumped on people here, that has never been my intent but I appreciate knowing your view of it.
If you go, I will be sad, you are one whom I have felt was real. Please don’t leave on my account, I will refrain from interacting, I don’t want to hurt you ever and enjoy reading what you think about things.
Dear AV,
I guess was more hurt than I initially said, not about the short comment or the misunderstanding which I may have contributed to but about the happy quote. I guess it just felt mean and made me wonder why. Was it lashing out? Having a bad day? When I hear things like that from someone it takes me a long time to think that, that’s not really what someone thinks about me, not in a grudge holding way but just how I am.
I’ve never felt or noticed anything else negative with you and thought we “got on” so to speak and I have admired your approach to your mum, the blog etc. It’s my sensitivity too but I guess feel embarrassed like I did with Arya, that someone saying these things to me, will make others think “oh yeh she has it easy, why’s she complaining”. I rarely join group chats or threads irl as I hate knowing other people will read things I write generally.
But apologies, the comment about dumping on others here wasn’t aimed at you (apart from the happy comment to me!). I haven’t seen you do thag and I understood your reaction to Jordy from your side so just to clear that up. I guess I just don’t understand the meanness I see sometimes generally here as well as these two situations I’ve had .. I guess I need to develop stronger boundaries too with that as it does upset me. I’m a bit naive maybe, I know it’s real life I guess I just hope we could all be a bit gentler with each other at times. I love the humour and the kindness that’s often here.
Thank you for your kind words. We did lose our cat a few weeks ago too so I’m aware I’m feeling extra sensitive if that’s possible lol. I’m pretty sure I’m an HSP so it makes sense to me how I react these days and I accept that’s how I am. It has pros and cons lol. Thanks for your message AV. I’m not quite sure how to go forward but will keep going for now. I do know part of this is my end and the things I always struggle with but appreciate your response too. ❤️
Dear Asp,
Thank you very much for your message, I really appreciated it and HG for moderating. Ugh I don’t like making myself the centre of attention but am learning to say stuff! I am finding HGs work so helpful and as you say it helps us develop a different way of looking at things. Thanks for “getting it”. 😘
Yes, I shut down easily and was ‘trained’ not to speak up. I am much better but even here will try and support genuinely but also people please and keep going even if I’m hurt. I might be wrong but I feel that my fibromyalgia is somehow related even if not fully, to absorbing the hurts that can accrue over time, as you said. I’m hoping by developing my emotional side of things I may heal physically too somewhat in time too. Like you are doing, I can see a way of ‘accessing’ those accrued hurts to be able to process them in a way that previous therapy did not for me too.. I am noticing that already. I already knew I was likely a HSP and part of the puzzle of it all from my side but yes HGs work adds further insight.
I’m not able to do the EDC and buy things currently (hard to explain) but maybe one day. I understand your protection too re your results. I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of myself but know that it can be enhanced further by Hs work. I feel fortunate that I’m not someone that thought I was the narc on arrival as I had worked through that already. 🥴
I didn’t understand this part “You do appear to have a lot of understanding about what abuse is and therefore can ‘see’ where it could be implied as such.” 🤔
I chose to join and continue like you Asp, despite these feelings because I too know I need to build up on the resilience too. I have processed a lot of the narc stuff before coming here but I guess allowed myself to feel freer to let things out properly. I love understanding myself and others better. It’s why I’m still here I guess.
Ps I have read a lot for work and pleasure lol 🤓about HSPs and autism, there’s a lot of overlaps which I think explains why you get it so well too. I know I’m not autistic but see so many overlaps in myself when I work with many of my autistic students. Overwhelm, overthinking, overstimulation, a sprinkling of social anxiety, and a garnish of sensitivity. 😅
Hi two,
Your comment overall resonates with me and I get it.
You’ve already spent six years learning about what happened to you in your FOO. Six years is a long time. Compared to the length of time you were immersed in this kind of atmosphere from when you were a baby, six years is not that long. The deniable and subtle abuse is difficult to define and detect, especially when other people regularly defend and agree with the narcissist.
Plus, when you tell people about this kind of abuse, it’s rare that someone says, “I totally get it and I’m sorry about what happened to you.”
I can ‘feel’ your confusion and also your frustration. In the long run, it’s unhealthy to feel that way despite what you may learn here in the process.
You have been transparent and very kind. Please know that I for one appreciate your transparency, kindness, honesty and empathy. Being agreeable with others is a beautiful trait. The only thing that’s not so good about it is that a narcissist will take advantage of it. In addition, there are also non-narcissists who will look down on it even though they will make you think otherwise because in general, their true loyalties lie elsewhere.
When it comes to being here on the blog (from someone who has been here over the past seven years), I think it’s helpful to trust your intuition. It will not let you down. If something feels ‘off’ to you, or fake or deceptive, it’s highly likely that it is.
Also, those that say “you’re too sensitive” or “you take things to heart” do not truly know you and have a limited field of vision. They also have their own defences and coping strategies.
You know who you are. You don’t need their approval or validation to see or feel what you actually see and feel. If you see the nuances; the light and shade of things; the contexts and details; that is a bonus in life. It means you see things in technicolour rather than simply black and white.
Dear Leigh,
It’s your turn to be peacemaker ☺️✌️ it’s all good from my end.. (I hope you are ok too AV ❤️).
I noticed AV also said she feels terrible and I don’t want that, I did appreciate her apology.
You’re right about acons and our reactions, for sure Leigh. I know that’s part of me and my reaction here.
Also the hsp term (contagion in HGs language) resonates so much for me. Apparently we do very well in supportive environments and very badly in non. I think that explains possibly the dynamic of my family and also why I get easily triggered here and elsewhere. I have no problem with directness, I like it. It’s just the stuff that reminds me of childhood and the deniable stuff, subtle put downs. But i can do this stuff too (ask my husband 😄) we all do ..so I understand.
I think I wanted to be transparent and as Asp said, part of why I’m here is to develop resilience. I appreciate AV has talked it through.
Thanks Leigh 😘
Thank you again Asp. I’ll rewatch the empathy series. Good idea ❤️🙏❤️ I had martyr on my list to watch again too after reading some useful older threads.
Hi two, I’ll reply to your other comments soon, I have jotted down the numbers so I can reach them.
thank you again WN. 💗💗💗
It is rare for people to get it, you’re right. I think what’s frustrating with the covert abuse is I know I’m far too “forgiving” or at least used to be, so it’s a slap in the face when it’s implied that you’re not forgiving enough etc. the opposite has been my problem, logically.
Tbh I’m not sure what my intuition is telling me re here. Asp hit it on the head too about resilience. And being able to work through a one time thing with AV (who I have had nothing but respect for) has been helpful. It’s not the old story of being shut down by the other person which I appreciated.
I felt very teary rushing your lovely compliments. Thank you. Yes agreeableness can be a double edged sword! 🥴
I really appreciated what you said about seeing things in technicolour. I think that’s it but it can be so bloody tiring sometimes. 😅 To be fair most people don’t call me sensitive these days to my face at least but I know it does seem hard for a lot of people to “get me” so I just do my own thing a lot of the time.
Anyway thank you again lovely WN. I feel quite tearful 🥹 and am feeling “got” with this and the responses to my post. Thank you all. 💕
And HG of course 🙏I hope life’s ok out on the field.
Two,
Thank you for your comment to me.
I learned from this, that I need to be much more careful. There have been times I’ve said things I didn’t like saying with intent, because I felt the situation demanded it. There have been times I’ve said things out of frustration when I’ve not felt heard or understood. There are times when I just didn’t think, this has happened on the blog twice that I am aware of, though others may be aware of more. This was one of those times. There is no excuse, having a bad day or anything else. I apologize again.
I got it AV. All good. Sending hugs ❤️❤️❤️
Hi Asp 👋
Thanks for your recommendation to listen to the empath series. I have listened before but there’s always more you pick up on, with another listen isn’t there?
I identify with contagion most as a school and in descending order; carrier, saviour, martyr, co-dep, magnet and geyser. I know there’s schools and cadres so I might be mixing things a little. I also picked up this time on that if a narcissist parent exhibits care taking tendancies that an empath may go that way (but genuinely). My parents present(ed) as caring.
It’s really interesting about how these traits “click” together with the narcissists. I.e. greaters not needing carriers as much etc.
Very interesting.
I hope you’re well? Thanks again for your help. 🙏
It’s felt quite different to be able to talk about my struggles recently here and I really appreciate that. I lean on my husband but generally I’m the one quietly getting on with things or supporting others so it’s felt good to make a shift with this and be supported. Thank you. 🙏
You’re very welcome, two.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to make you feel teary.😘💐
Being here and being honest and open about our experiences can bring out a range of emotions. I think it’s normal. It’s happened to me and I think it happens on the regular. It may be because in our pasts and IRL, being this honest and open is generally not possible or safe or well received. So being here on the blog and being honest amongst a range of different voices and opinions takes some getting used to.
I think it’s all part of the learning and understanding.
Yes, thinking deeply and in detail all the time is tiring. The overwhelm can set in. I’ve found that I need to ‘check in’ with how I’m feeling and then think about it cognitively. By doing that, I can better understand the emotional reaction and take the emotion ‘outside’ of myself. This makes it easier to separate or detach from the way I feel. The emotion becomes more of an ‘external’ thing rather than something that’s part of me.
It’s all good, two – it’s all part of the learning curve. It’s about knowing yourself as much as knowing the narcissist 😉😊
Hi Two,
You & WN both mentioned FOO. What’s FOO?
Hi Leigh,
In case two doesn’t see your question …
FOO is family of origin.
Hi Leigh 👋
FOO – FAMILY OF ORIGIN
FOC – FAMILY OF CHOICE
❤️
hi WN
no worries on the teary, it’s good for the soul sometimes isn’t it!? I felt very understood and you’re right. I feel like I have broken through something by being honest here and recognising that many of us feel like this helps. I often feel like I’m the outlier but don’t know. Thanks again 💗
Thanks Asp 🙏
“It’s about knowing yourself as much as knowing the narcissist 😉😊”
Very true WN ☝️
Hi two,
Yes, I think it’s good for the soul sometimes.
Being honest and true to yourself, and being honest about your emotions, is one of the best things you can do for yourself while recovering from narcissistic abuse.
If a parent is the narcissist, the damage done to your ‘self’ runs deep. It affects every other aspect of your life too.
When recovering, an ACON needs to ‘re-learn’ how to be their true self and how to ‘be’ in the world. I have found this re-learning takes time and it’s very personal.
Thank you for your messages as well, two ❤️❤️❤️
“When recovering, an ACON needs to ‘re-learn’ how to be their true self and how to ‘be’ in the world. ”
Very true WN. ☝️
I’m pretty quiet (until you get to know me 😄) and unassuming irl. I think that’s why my mum taking over a lot, didn’t ruffle my feathers for a long time in my life (plus people pleasing). I don’t like being centre of attention, she loves it etc. so now I’m just enjoying my hermity best life lol. It’s great. 🥳 But one thing I’m also learning is not to suprress how I feel anymore. Work in progress. Thanks WN. Lots of food for thought.
Two,
I am still playing catch up with comments (my last work week was intense)…so, I am uncertain if you have actually left the blog. (Anyway, I enjoy reading your comments; they’re refreshing and honest.) And I am so annoyed because I wrote a couple responses and got the error message…so this will be my second try.
I can really identify with your words here:
“I felt like I’d received “abuse lite” for a long time and didn’t feel I could talk about it compared to others which has it worst than me but came to realise there’s no such thing as mild abuse.”
“Abuse lite” is an apt phrase. I also didn’t recognize my narc mother’s behaviour as abusive until well into adulthood – and then mostly as a consequence of a single violent episode (I have mentioned it elsewhere on the blog). When I was younger, I was often told by others (friends, etc ) how *nice* my mother was, she had the same friend group for 25 plus years (until she didn’t), she ran a home daycare (when I was a child), and later, when I was older, she held down the same job for over 15 years (until she got ‘sick’ and then she never worked again.) I guess my father received the brunt of her abuse.
I really don’t have the same stories that many others have here from their childhood. (Yes, now I can identify past manipulations, the telling of lies and the emotional blackmail that my mother used – thanks to my education here.) And, of course, (piecing it all together) I realize now that my mother got pregnant and had me simply to trap my father and (I believe) pressure him into marriage…then, as a consequence, I had been tenderized for meeting up with future narcs: namely, my son’s father – where the real damage was done.
Even though, comparatively, I do not have the same childhood stories as many here, I agree with you and AV: there’s no mild abuse.
By the way, I am reposting this using Firefox – which, I think, is less likely to fail – although, I can’t even recall if this comment resembles my original response.
Thanks so much for your comments WC. I appreciate them and you re-writing (bloody WP 🫤). I am sorry you had it too. I Think you hit the nail on the end that this kind of treatment “tenderizes” you. It’s been useful to talk it through with AV and get some completion thanks to her empathy as we’ve resolved it (another reply is still in moderation AV).
A big feeling that I think my childhood left me with in relation to others is “I’m here to serve you and you are more important.” My mum has ruined many of my birthdays as she took over re-telling the story of my birth. We used to laugh years ago but my husband was the one to notice the repetitiveness and long winded taking the limelight every year. We asked her (and my dad who enabled it) to stop but they wouldn’t so I stopped seeing them for birthdays. Its not the worst thing but these situations teach you that “you don’t matter”. Even your one day a year is for them. I told my mum she had mother’s day but she can’t get what I’m saying. And this isn’t a good set up for healthy relationships in general.
Two,
Re: birthdays being ruined. I understand when you say: “It’s not worst thing but these situations teach you “that you don’t matter.”‘
I am glad you took control and chose to no longer celebrate your birthday with your mother.
“My mum has ruined many of my birthdays as she took over re-telling the story of my birth. We used to laugh years ago but my husband was the one to notice the repetitiveness and long winded taking the limelight every year. We asked her (and my dad who enabled it) to stop but they wouldn’t so I stopped seeing them for birthdays.”
Re: abuse lite. I can’t even say that my birthdays were actually ruined…the only instances that I can recall that were not what I wanted or expected: once, for a milestone birthday, my mother had a surprise party for me and invited literally everyone to our back yard…friends, family, my boss and co-workers, my long-distance boyfriend (at the time). I, being very private and not liking that sort of attention, was actually horrified at all the people from various areas of my life being the same place at the same time. But, of course, I was expected to be grateful, and expected to play the role of happy ‘birthday girl, which I did: smile and perform. And, naturally, my mother took all the credit for organizing this for her dear daughter looked like mother of the year. Most people would not view this as their birthday being ruined, nor even their privacy being violated, probably.
One other time, every single birthday gift was on the theme of angels: a delicate pewter and glass angel bell, a beautiful coffee table book on angels, etc. When I commented to my aunt that it was odd that everything was angel themed – she said, “Oh, your mom said you were into angels lately.” I wasn’t. (I liked horses, unicorns and dragons back then and nothing related to heaven/Christianity appealed to me.) But, my mother did have a thing for angels. I eventually gave her the coffee table book, stating that it was something that she would enjoy more, plus, it matched her living room.
Oh WC 😲 I get it. But I think it’s again that subtle deniability. Refusing or complaining about a party or presents can be badly received by those that “don’t get it” but fundamentally with the personalities that we’re discussing, it’s appears about them not you even when it’s meant to be about you! We deal with it and don’t make waves, don’t want to “upset them” (because they won’t “get it” anyway). I think it’s all that emotional labour involved in these situations that’s so tiring.. “death by a thousand cuts”. 🤷♀️
Two,
“I think it’s all that emotional labour involved in these situations that’s so tiring.. “death by a thousand cuts”. 🤷♀️”
That’s so apt. Emotional labour is right!
Yup! Since I’ve learnt about the “narcissistic perspective” so much has made sense to me, WC. the treading on eggshells since birth! I’m tired 😴 how about you?!
Two (if you’re still here),
Thanks for mentioning the book you referenced, that’s interesting:
“politeness was mentioned as an understandable weakness when it overrode instinct. It’s something I’m working on too. I haven’t come across many dangerous situations (that I’m aware of at least 👀) but even with smaller situations, I’m less likely to be polite if someone walks over my boundaries.”
Yes, I could see how politeness could work to someone’s detriment in certain risky situations. And, similarly, I am working on the politeness thing myself. I do know that in situations where I feel something is completely unfair, or unjustified (especially towards someone else) I will speak up – despite how uncomfortable it is for me. Like the example I gave in the thread talking about my experiences with differing lawyers: showing up at my lawyer’s office on a day I didn’t really need to be there and being adamant about how I felt regarding the matter at that time – it felt impolite (although I didn’t use rude language, etc.), demanding and out of character for me – but, it did get me what I wanted…or at least rectified the situation in my eyes.
But, just showing up and standing my ground was difficult – and I feared looking like a whining, demanding mid-ranger (several of whom clog the legal system and, therefore, have exhausted the empathy of many in that field).
Notably, the standing up for myself thing is still a work in progress…
“But, just showing up and standing my ground was difficult – and I feared looking like a whining, demanding mid-ranger (several of whom clog the legal system and, therefore, have exhausted the empathy of many in that field).”
I think that’s it WC, isn’t it? We have awareness how we might sound unlike the MRs and we never want to be that person. I think we have to lean into our “narcissistic traits” sometimes and say what needs to be said.
Really well done on the lawyer / court situations.. I can’t imagine. I don’t know about you but I find if I’m assertive but respectful, people respect that. That’s where our empathy comes in.
Two,
*We have awareness how we might sound unlike the MRs and we never want to be that person. I think we have to lean into our “narcissistic traits” sometimes and say what needs to be said.”
You said it better than I did!
“I don’t know about you but I find if I’m assertive but respectful, people respect that.”
Yes, it makes all the difference.
✊ WC
“I have, in turn, been thinking about your response…and see your comment has generated some interesting conversation.”
Hi WC. It has, hasn’t it.
“I don’t really have a reply related to the issue of lieutenants. Also, I suppose that, reflecting back, I was implying being “polite” in conversation”
Yes, that is what I was talking about. Those examples from the article – mocking, name calling, insulting, bad mouthing to others – may not be strictly conversational, but they’re all forms of verbal attack.
Indeed. A focus on politeness can come at a cost, and sometimes that cost is a narcissist in your life. Also, the definition of polite can differ. I do not think it impolite to say “no, but thank you for the invitation” (opportunity etc) and not supply a reason, but others do.
I did understand the original comment to be in relation to comments here between bloggers though.
I think you’re referring to my comment NA, if so, you are correct, I meant here on the blog. I see politeness as you do, in your description here. And also not name calling, belittling etc. As has been mentioned already.
Someone brought up the point that to use politeness as a guard if narcissism isn’t necessarily accurate. I agree with this, unless it is, as HG teaches, done over a period of time and there would likely be other indicators also. Very difficult to determine with certainty from writings on a blog.
AV
It was just a general response after reading all the comments in the discussion. Agree that it is hard for us to determine with any certainty the classification through blog comments, especially given that they are often misinterpreted and the subjects can arouse great emotion. That is best left to HG’s expertise.
Okay, another phone autocorrect. It wasn’t intended to say a “guard if narcissism”, it should’ve read an indicator of narcissism. Apologies.
In any event, NA, thank you for your clarification.
I do believe HG’s expertise is the ultimate determinator of narcissism. But I also believe that repeated bad behavior can be avoided, a choice we make, and also called out when it is extensive. Not that you were saying anything different, but this is where I land with it.
Mr. Tudor,
I’m so intrigued by your video on Mikey McCoy! There was no startle reflex at all. I would’ve found the situation unnerving & unsettling. He didn’t even try to feign being unnerved or unsettled. He was calm. Is it possible that he’s a psychopath?
It is a possibility or perhaps he was like Brad Pitt in Snatch.
Thanks for asking, Leigh. I was wondering about what sounded like psychopathic behavior at the very least.
You’re welcome, Dani.
I was intrigued by the behavior!
Hi Leigh,
Mikey McCoy’s behaviour at the moment Charlie Kirk was shot was really weird. It’s very intriguing. I think there’s something very fishy going on.
If he was like everyone else and didn’t expect a gun to go off, he would have shown some form of surprise, or concern about Charlie, or at least a pause and delayed reaction in his body language.
I hadn’t heard of Mikey McCoy before watching HG’s video. After watching, I googled him. I then watched his speech at Charlie’s memorial.
McCoy’s speech at the memorial didn’t show sadness or grief. He didn’t discuss Charlie as a friend who he’s going to miss. Instead, he may as well have been pumping his fist in the air as he said words to the effect of “now that Charlie is a martyr for our cause, his legacy means our battle has just begun! Ra Ra Ra!!!”
If you compare McCoy’s demeanour and words at the memorial with the devastated grief and body language of Charlie Kirk’s parents in photos, the contrast is stark.
I agree, WN. Mikey McCoy’s lack of a reaction is very intriguing. Thank you for mentioning McCoy’s speech at Kirk’s memorial. I’ll have to check it out.
You’re welcome, Leigh.
Considering Charlie Kirk’s memorial in hindsight, it’s actually disgusting. I can see why his parents didn’t even attend. During his speech, McCoy mentioned Erika Kirk at least twice saying she was “incredible” and pointing out that young people living their lives believing in Jesus as the saviour are the “fruit of Charlie’s example of faithfulness.”
The mention of ‘fruit’ and young people getting married and having lots of babies even if they couldn’t afford them reminded me of the lines “blessed be the fruit” and “may the Lord open” in ‘The Handmaid’s Tale.’
Directly after Mikey McCoy’s speech at the memorial, Tyler Bowyer spoke. Bowyer was the Chief Operating Officer (COO) at Turning Point USA at the time of Kirk’s death.
Bowyer started off his speech at Kirk’s memorial by slapping McCoy on the back with a big, smug, self-satisfied grin. He looked out at the audience like he was proud of himself.
Bowyer then said, “Oh my goodness, Charlie’s having some serious heavenly FOMO right now. Look at this, you have no idea how much Charlie Kirk wants a bull-horn down here right now. He always said to me, ‘If we could just figure out how to bring the holy spirit into a Trump rally’ … I think you’ve done it.”
The audience then cheered for a few seconds while Bowyer lapped up the applause with a smile. He then started speaking again by saying, “My name is Tyler Bowyer. I was the COO of Turning Point USA …. ”
Wow.
It sounds like a case of the narcissists telling on themselves.
His friend and business partner just died in horrific circumstances, leaving small children behind, and Bowyer says “Charlie’s having some serious heavenly FOMO” … ??
And the words that I think spell it out ….
“He always said to me, ‘If we could just figure out how to bring the holy spirit into a Trump rally’ … I think you’ve done it.”
It sounds like projection. Bowyer attributed these words to Kirk, but I think the words and sentiment actually originated from the other executives at TP USA.
Kirk’s memorial was more like a ‘Trump rally’ than a memorial.
Hi WN,
I didn’t like McCoy’s comment about having more children than you can afford either. When you don’t have enough money to raise your children, it creates anxiety. That doesn’t make a happy life. That make a life full of worry.
I also agree that Kirk’s memorial was more like a Trump rally. I thought Trump’s speech during it was appalling. He made it all about him. He spoke about tariffs, autism & the state of the country. People were walking out while Trump was talking. I found that very interesting.
Agree. Total rally.
Hi Leigh,
McCoy didn’t flinch when his ‘friend’ and business partner was shot within a few feet of him. In fact, he was already on the phone and kept talking to someone on the other end, as though Kirk’s shooting was part of a plan.
McCoy didn’t give a second thought about Kirk’s two infant children losing their father.
If McCoy didn’t flinch about a ‘friend’ being shot and killed in his presence, then I don’t think it even crosses his mind that strangers having children they can’t afford leads to worry, anxiety and other things too.
I’d bet he doesn’t even know about things like personality disorders, defence mechanisms, coping strategies, mental health issues, addictions and child abuse.
If you think about it, Kirk was an 18-year-old college dropout when he formed TP USA. McCoy is a 23-year-old nepo baby (whose father Rob McCoy is a Pastor and the co-chair of TP USA Faith) Both Kirk and McCoy were/are millionaires based on tax-exempt donations.
It’s ridiculous for both of them to preach to people about anything let alone “having babies they can’t afford.” Absolute hypocrites.
Hi again Leigh,
On the subject of so-called ‘religious’ people preaching to others about having babies …
In the last few days, I listened to HG’s Tudorscope series on Jodi Hildebrandt. I also googled Shari Franke (Ruby Franke’s daughter) and read an extract of Shari’s book about her mother.
If anything, the case of Hildebrandt and Franke is a glaring example of why religion (or politics) *should not* be the reason why people have children.
Also, in the comments for HG’s video about Erika Kirk and whether she is “Surviving or Thriving,” there were mentions of the AmFest event hosted by TP USA that was held in December 2025. These mentions led me to read a Washington Post article about the event.
It makes me think that Jim and Tammy Bakker were amateurs compared to TP USA.
Hi WN,
I don’t think religion is the root cause here and I’m not religious at all.
I think wirh McCoy, Hildebrandt & Franke, the cause for their actions is a lack empathy and they’re using religion as a way to manipulate. I think thats disgusting.
There are good people who are religious though. One of my dear friends is religious & she has a beautiful soul.
Hi Leigh,
I agree that religion is being used as a way to manipulate.
The subject of ‘religion’ can become very murky and subjective very quickly, which makes me think twice about discussing it at all.
It’s risky, however, here goes …
Although I’m not ‘religious’ in terms of going to church regularly or following specific religious practices, I nevertheless ‘believe’ to some extent in the philosophical values of ‘christianity.’
I think this is because it aligns with my personal instinctive ‘values’ which are based on my own empathy and conscience.
Even my thinking here, though, becomes inconclusive because I recognise that ‘values’ are ambiguous concepts. Also, having a ‘value’ is not as clear-cut as believing in a ‘system’ or ‘practice.’
It’s complicated.
Getting back to religion being used to manipulate …
People can be manipulated in all sorts of ways. Take for example, advertising, marketing, fashion, fads, sex, music, symbols – to name a few.
When it comes to ‘religion’ as a way to manipulate, it reminds me strongly of cults.
A ‘destructive cult’ (as explained by people such as Robert J Lifton and Rick Ross) has the following three core characteristics:
1) An all-powerful leader. A charismatic leader who becomes an object of worship within a group. This person typically has dictatorial power without any meaningful accountability.
2) Thought reform and coercion. The leader knowingly and deliberately manipulates people through thought reform and coercive persuasion.
3) Exploitation and harm to indoctrinated followers. Once the leader has obtained undue influence over followers through thought reform and coercion, the leader uses his/her influence to exploit and do harm to them.
The level of ‘destructiveness’ can vary. Also, the way the group presents itself and creates a facade, describing itself in various ways such as spiritual, self-improvement, alternative lifestyle, educational, coaching, etc, can vary as well.
(FYI, the points here about destructive cults are quoted from Rick Ross. He has worked professionally for decades to ‘deprogram’ individuals indoctrinated into and manipulated within cults.)
I think that religion can be used to manipulate using methods similar to destructive cults.
Leigh,
I’m aware that my comment is longwinded and probably comes across like some kind of lecture. I thought about this before commenting.
I think though, that religion is a small word that has huge effects on people. This makes me think that it’s worth discussing in more detail.
Hi WN,
I didn’t take your comment as a lecture at all. I like learning & hearing other people’s perspectives. I find your comments interesting & informative.
I don’t have a strong opinion about religion and its probably because its never truly been a part of my life. Its also not something I need or want in my life currently either.
With that said, religion is a hot button subject and I try to steer clear. I think there are several ways to enlightenment and if someone chooses religion, I think that’s their choice. I wouldn’t want someone to push their religion on me so I try not to push my non religious views on others.
Hi Leigh,
Religion is a topic that creates debate, for sure.
I think awareness and information about the way religion is used to manipulate is a way to prevent being manipulated.
To draw a parallel, the main reason we’re all here on the blog is to obtain awareness about narcissism.
Say the blog was called ‘Knowing the Religious Narcissist’ instead, it would still provide awareness. I don’t think people in general would say it was pushing non-religious views.
Anyway, I’ll stop there. There are widely held beliefs on the topic and it can rapidly become contentious.
Hi WN,
I actually think narcissism can be a hot button subject too. Outside of the blog, my empath daughter & one friend, I limit the use of the word narcissism. Just like religion, I’ve found it can spark heated debates and become very contentious as well.
I do understand your point though. I’m sure there are many religious figures that fall into the realm of narcissism and will use it to their advantage.
Hi WN and Leigh,
I’m aware you’re closing the religion chat down but just wanted to say I was “forced” to be Catholic growing up so absolutely to Leigh’s comment:
“I’m sure there are many religious figures that fall into the realm of narcissism and will use it to their advantage.”
Luckily I always had a spiritual connection which was private and couldn’t be taken away from me. When I was 12 I told my mum I didn’t want to go to church anymore (I was being transparent felt a fraud not believing all the teachings).. this really was an Oy Vey moment! My mum spent weeks crying, talking to the priest about me and my non belief. So embarrassing. 🫣 I gave up in the end and carried on.
I respect faith and other people’s feelings on it though. It’s just clearly a useful facade with my mum (as it was with her mum). They are Irish Catholic. That’s a while other quagmire!!
Oh boy, Two! Do I know those Irish Catholics really well! That’s my husband’s family and its definitely a useful facade for them too.
Another commonality Leigh! Yikes, I feel you on the Irish catholic in-laws. There’s some lovely ones for sure of course but yep, facade central for the narcs. 🙄
HG is Shamima Begum a genuine victim of grooming?
To me, she lacks empathy
Abso fucking lutely not.
Love the answer HG. 🤣 I thought the same as you Witch.
Thank you HG
Because I’ve been seeing recent videos on social media of people saying she was only 15 she should be allowed to come back – but I disagree because she doesn’t seem normal to me at all, so I just wanted confirmation that I am right
She deserves no sympathy whatsoever and she’s certainly not a normal.
Then I hope she is never allowed back, it makes me wonder why European court of human rights is getting involved?
Dear HG and friends on the blog,
I hope everyone had a good Christmas and New Years! Xx
I wanted to update everyone. My surgery date has moved to the 29th of January now, due to some scheduling issue with the surgeon. I’m a bit upset about it for two reasons:
1) All the LOA paperwork that I finished with 5 people now has to be redone because of the change of date for my medical leave of absence. The doctors have to redo paperwork, HR, Hartford and the State now have to be notified and redone. All that work was for nothing.
2)I worry about the prolonged delay of surgery because I worry about it spreading from my lymph nodes.
My anxiety has been kicking my a## over this news and I made calls yesterday, and I have calls I’m waiting on today, especially from the State for the short term they offer to LOA.
I took today off so I could focus on the things I need to get done. I didnt find out this lovely news until late afternoon yesterday. I’m losing my trust and faith in the doctors and told the nurse assigned to me that. I’m being honest about my fear and I really don’t appreciate the surgeon playing Russian Roulette with my cancer in my lymph nodes. It’s how I feel, I’m scared and pissed off now. Xx
I’m sorry for the long comment, HG and thank you for moderating it. I appreciate you and I’m sorry I’m so upset right now and for my long comment. I had a lot to get out. Xx
Rebecca,
Ugh! I’m so sorry to hear this! Its terrible that these doctor’s hold the outcome of our health in their hands. I’m sending hugs and will continue to send positive energy your way. You’re a fighter and survivor, Rebecca! You will beat this!
Hi Rebecca, I’m sorry to read about the procedure being delayed by another week. I understand your thoughts / feelings and how it is contributing to your ET being elevated because of the amount of effort into the arrangements. Some people may struggle to understand it from your perspective, ie, walking in your shoes. I’ll be thinking of you xx
Hi Rebecca,
I’m sorry to hear that your procedure has been delayed. You must be worried sick and to get built up for one date only to suffer a delay must be horrible.
You are forced into a situation where you have extra time to wait. Try to turn it to your advantage if you can. You now have extra time to build yourself up and prepare for battle. That little critter will bite the dust soon enough, a little extra prep time to build your strength up might actually support a faster recovery. Recovery time post op will be very important too.
I know that might sound easy for me to say, I can only imagine how stressed you must feel just now.
Stay strong Rebecca. The critter will be gone in a few short weeks and you’ll be working on getting back to normal.
Xx
Hi Rebecca,
Thank you for the update. I’ve been wondering how things are going for you. I hope you can calm your anxiety somehow, maybe one of HG’s Quick Calm options would help. They’re geared toward narcissism but are generally calming I’ve found. Take good care and keep us posted as you can. 💕
Hi TS,
Thank you for your words of encouragement! I am prepared for battle ahead, but the delay in the surgery has made me very impatient for the battle to begin! I’m ready, let’s get this done already, c’mon, engine is on! The waiting is the toughest for me right now, believe me I’m a firm believer in pulling off the bandage quickly, get it done now, not later! I wait. 🤬😤💩😱🤬 My feelings right now are overwhelming at times, but I have a cancer couselor and she is great with letting me get my feelings out, so I can calm down.
HG’s daily videos are also a calming outlet for me, something constant, something else to focus on. Thanks, HG! Xx
Of course, MLSNarc has his moments of being a narc and I talk with my cancer couselor about him and I have a consultation next month with HG….so basically, I ignore MLSN and his tantrums of the stress he feels through all this, but to be fair, he does have his moments of helping me out at times too. But, as it is, I deal with it like I’ve dealt with it since 2000. One day at a time. Xx
Thank you, HG for moderating, you and your work helps me through this. Thank you! Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
Hi Leigh,
Thank you for your words of support and believe me I’m fighting this little gremlin all the way! When I was told of the delay of the surgery, due to some issue the surgeon had, I was pretty upset and I let the nurse, who told me the news, know how I felt about it. I was nice about it, but firm in telling her that this is causing me more stress and worry and don’t tell me to calm down again. I have ever right to feel this way, this is my health you’re playing Russian Roulette with and I don’t like it. It might be one week for you, but for me is more time with this gremlin in me! I let it out, so hopefully they won’t put more delays on me. If they do, I will got the the Adminstration of the hospital. I’m serious about getting this surgery done! C’mon with it! Xx
I’m getting very anxious and very impatient with them now. Xx
Hi Rebecca.
I love the use of the word “Gremlin”. I love that TS called it a “critter” too. Its just an irritating gremlin and critter that will be gone soon enough!
My anxiety would be through the roof right now too! I’d want it done & over with too. As hard as it might be, I do think its important to relax too though.
Have you listened to Mr. Tudor’s interviews with Michelle from the Royal Daily Tea? He posted 4 of them around the holidays. They were really fun to listen to and they may help to take your mind of things.
As always, I will continue to send positive thoughts your way!
Thank you, AspAmp for your understanding and support. I’m having the hardest time controling my ET through all the procedires, test, paperwork etc…it’s all so stressful and tedious at times. I’m so glad I’m understood here. Half of the battle is all the bull💩 a person has to go through to get the surgery done! The recovery will be nothing compared to this waiting….I am working full time through all this too, so I feel like I’m working 2 full time jobs trying to get all the papers, phone calls, dr appts etc done. I’m overwhelmed at times. I’ll he happier when the surgery is behind me and I can start healing. Getting there is another battle, but I’m standing for the fight! I have my stubborn Carrier on my side and my Savior side up for the challenge! The Geyser in me is good and angry for the fight ahead! Xx The little gremlin is going down! Xx
HG, thank you for teaching me more about myself, it helps me fight more! Xx Thank you so much for the knowledge I have now and for moderating my comments! Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
Hi Rebecca, thank you for your reply. I can ‘see’ how worried (and angry) you are. I do understand. I liked AV’s suggestion regarding HG’s Quick Calm series. Having thought on that, maybe have the following videos on a playlist of your own (HG’s videos only, of course) while going through such upheaval? May I suggest: The Ultra channel – ‘The Other World : Part One : Escape and Mediation’…..from the Treasure Trove channel: The Sanctuary; Autumn Extended**; Rain Relaxer**; Serenity? (** there are short / long versions). So many other choices in the Treasure Trove too. Is there any way you can spend some time recuperating at a friend’s house following surgery, somehow? So you do not have to deal with ‘him’ in the house too while recovering…..I do not wish to add to your plate, just thinking of you (I do care). xx
Hi AV,
Thank you for your words of kindness. Xx My anxiety is my toughest battle right now, as well as my impatience knocking on my door. I hate to wait, it makes my anxiety worse. I explained that to the oncologist, but it was the surgeon who changed the date. Xx
I will keep you all informed and thanks for your concern and care. Xx 💕
Thanks HG for moderating. Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
Hi Rebecca,
Thank you for the update.
I’m sorry about the change in plans. The paperwork that needs to be done is annoying as well.
If you need to vent about things causing you anxiety, I think it’s helpful to have the blog and other people here for a way to blow off steam. Posting a comment or two will give you a bit of relief.
It’s important for you to be as positive as possible as you go through this. Blow off the steam and then try to look at things from a different angle.
You have already done the initial hard work with the LOA paperwork and the other forms and notifications. If you have kept copies of the original paperwork, it will hopefully be quicker to redo them. You already know who to call and what to do.
The people involved in the paperwork at your work and at the hospital already know you as well and know the situation, so they will be aware of what to do.
Sometimes when we’re anxious or worried, our minds dwell on the negative and the problem seems bigger than it may actually be.
You have to try to nip this worry in the bud, Rebecca. When you feel yourself getting anxious or overthinking, it may help to distract yourself by doing something to change your thinking. Just little things, like filing your nails or watering some plants or other little things that need to get done. This also helps to be a little more prepared before you go to hospital.
Your surgery date is just a week later. The time will fly by. In the meantime, try to get plenty of restful sleep and do relaxing things. Go to bed early, for example.
When I feel anxious or can’t sleep, I play music that slows down the nervous system and it helps. If you search YouTube for Brahm’s lullaby for example, there are different versions of it on loop. This kind of music slows your breathing and your heart rate naturally, which also calms your mind.
Hi WiserNow,
Thanks for your words of encouragement, I appreciate your advice too.
I had to redo my pre-surgery bloodwork today because the surgery got scheduled so late that the previous bloodwork expired, so that frustrating, not to mention that I have to pay for the bloodwork again.
I’ve been working hard on being patient with the surgery scheduling, but it’s really poking my last nerve as of late, with the changing of a signed off surgery date….the redoing, resending paperwork…it feels ridiculous at this point.
I’m still working full time during all this craziness, focusiing on work helps me and taking a break from the many emails and phone calls to the doctors and nurses.
It seems like to me, it would help a patient out a lot if they would all communicate with each other wirhout involving me having to be the “middle man” for all of them.
They tell me to try to relax. I could relax if I could trust them to fax what they pronised they faxed. I have to run behind them and check and make sure everyone got everything, it’s nerve wrecking and sonething I shouldn’t have to do, but maybe my anxiety is getting the better of me…..and I need to trust they are doing their job.
Anyway, sorry for the anxious energy and thank you for your kind words. Xx
Dear HG,
Thank you for moderating and letting me release some of my anguish and frustration. You truly are the best at what you do! Thank you, HG! Xx
Hi Rebecca,
One day at a time sounds like a sensible plan to me!
Willing you onwards 🙂
Xx
Hi Leigh and TS,
I call it a gremlin because it makes it less scary and gives me an image to fight against. It’s far more effective than imagining my cells mutating inside me. The gremlin is a less scary and far funnier thing to imagine getting dropped kicked out a window of a highrise building, like in the second movie. 😄xx
I did listen to the videos with Michelle and HG, found them very fun and enjoyable! I even commented on them and Michelle commented back to me too. 😃
I distract myself with HG’s work a lot and I find HG’s work very easy to get absorbed into my mind. HG has that power over me. Xx
TS,
Thank you for the boast forward, I eagerly jump on that ride! I’m looking forward to the surgery, just to get it behind me and the little gremlin gone! 😄xx
HG, thank you fof moderating and I hope you do more videos with Michelle in the near future….like after my surgery! 😄xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
I love that Rebecca! You drop kicking the gremlin out the window is how I’ll visualize it too.
Hi AspAmp,
Thank you for all the great suggestions of HG’s works! I do have some of HG’s Calm Series and I love the Treasure Trove stories….I mean who doesn’t feel warm and relaxed listening to HG read to us? 😄xx
Thank you for your suggestion of someone else to help me recover and heal, but sadly my local friends work full time, have kids to take care of and their own responsibilities I wouldn’t want to add me to their load. I have good friends who live for away, but they work full time, have their own lives full of responsibilities and issues. I couldn’t add to it and I’d be too far away from my Doctor, if I stayed with them.
MLSN is basically being good to me, especially with the Cancer Connection Counselors involved. I think this cancer diagnosis has scared him too. Thank you for caring about me. Xx
Dear HG,
Could you do a video of how a Middle Lesser reacts to their spouse being sick? Is fear of losing their spouse a driver to be more kind? Is that normal behavior for a MIddle Lesser to have? Could you explain what is happening to him? Thank you for moderating the comments and for your replies, HG! Xx
Hi Rebecca, that is what we are here for, to support each other in moments of need. It’s not easy when local friends / friends at a distance are occupied to assist in person, at least, they can communicate by phone. It’s wise to consider being near a Doctor / medical people that know your situation and can be on hand, if and when needed.
As for MLSN (and your question to HG), he is only thinking about himself, as his narcissism is fearing the loss of his IPPS (refer to: ‘The 5 Fears of the Narcissist’, and, I also thought of HG’s article ‘Nothing’s Imposssible : A Preventive Hoover’ – that one gives a good scenario). Hang in there, Rebecca, you are doing well despite the situation xx
Hi Leigh and AspAmp,
I’ll be dropkicking that gremlin soon enough, I can’t wait! The little 💩! Xx
AspAmp,
You’re like a second Knowledge Vault of HG’s work and I mean that as a strong compliment! Seriously, I struggle with remembering to bring my phone to work with me lately. I had to go back and get it twice in the last few weeks. I think it’s all the stress of the biopsies, the test, the paperwork….and keeping up with my work….my mind isn’t at it’s best right now. Thank you for reminding me of more of HG’s works. Xx
I do appreciate the suppport and love here! It means a lot to me! Xx
Dear HG,
Thank you for moderating the comments and I hope you do more videos with Michelle! You two are great together! Thank you so much for your time and works! Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
Indeed, in a similar situation, I would feel irritated and disappointed by the lack of understanding and “care.” A week longer to wait and to worry. On the other hand, something significant might have happened at the hospital/clinic/surgeon (in whose hands you have to surrender anyway), that prevented the surgery. Therefore, I would try to reject the negative emotions and find any positive aspects of this week-long delay. There will always be some, even the most mundane.
Being optimistic is half the battle. Sending warm greetings from a land covered in snow and ice. Stay strong, Rebecca.
Hi JOA,
You’re right I need to find the silver lining of another week to get through before surgery….another week for the paperwork to be finalized , to make sure everything is good to go….another week to breathe and calm down….xx
It’s snowed here the last 2 days and it’s reminded me to slow down a little bit and enjoy the beauty of the season, to see nature at rest, sleeping before the Spring awakening. Xx I do love the change of the Seasons, if it gets too hot, Autumn is soon to come and vice versa…it’s nice to get a break in the weather from time to time. Xx
I’m sorta looking forward to the break from work, though I’m sure before too long, I’ll want to get back to work. 😄
It’s nice to hear from you, Joa. Xx💕
Dear HG,
Thank you for moderating, I appreciate you! Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
Rebecca, I’m getting a little tired of winter, but it’s not letting up, and the freezing temperatures are approaching again.
I miss a little freedom in my life. Sometimes I catch myself wishing I was sick – because it’s the only way I can pull over and stand still for a moment. My friends and I sometimes joke, that no vacation will give you as much rest as a hospital stay… Sad, isn’t it? Only the excuse of a serious illness allows you to escape from it all for a while.
I’m thinking of you. Good luck. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the surgeon’s hand doesn’t shake (that’s a saying in my country; I don’t know if it’s the same in others). I wish you good results, a good prognosis, and a slower pace of life during your recovery.
Thank you JOA,
My surgery went very well! Only one lymph node was removed, which I’m very happy about and the pain medicine they have me on really kicks ass for the pain! 😄I’m thrilled I’m not in real pain, was expecting it, but was very surprised to wake up and not be hurting. They really took care of me at the hospital before and after surgery. I’m so grateful they got it all without issue. My sugery was 4 hours only and I’m so glad it’s over! I may celebrate with some ice cream! 😄😉🤪xx
Thanks so much for your care and concern! I appreciate you! Xx
Thank you, HG for moderating! You’re the best! Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
Dearest Rebecca,
Ohhh no !
I would be feeling dreadfully disappointed too lovely. Unfortunately and sadly, it’s out of your control.
One must focus on keeping positive and staying healthy with diet and exercise.
It’s amazing how staying calm helps the body to relax and heal.
Sharing your journey here has hopefully has eased the pain and angst somewhat.
You are being extremely brave Rebecca and you have our continued full support.
All our positive vibes are with you lovely one
💕
Dear Bubbles,
Thank you for your words of kindness and support. I’m taking things day by day and doing my best to breathe and not blast into the ceiling. I’ll be a lot more relaxed after all the people involved with the LOA have all the right, updated paperwork. Getting these papersfaxed and then received is harder than it should be.
I’ll be happier once the surgery is behind me and all this damn paperwork. Xx
Waiting on other people to get their job done is driving me nuts because I get things right away, on time etc, and I do realize that theu have other patients, but tell me you faxed something and then the receiver hasn’t received it. It’s very frustrating and wasting my time.
One day at a time, I know, but it is frustrating to wait on other people to do their job. Xx
Thanks HG for moderating and I’m sorry I’m so frustrated at this point. I appreciate you and thank you again. Xx
Sending big hugs and all my love Rebecca. 💞💞💞
Dearest Rebecca,
I totally understand what you’re saying Rebecca. Relying on others can be as frustrating as hell.
“Waiting on other people to get their job done is driving me nuts because I get things done right away on time, etc”
Take a few deep breaths and just go with the flow lovely. You can only do what you can. What’s the worst that can happen ? Exactly! The task may take longer, but it will eventually get done. Meh ! When the task is completed, tick it off your “frustration” list and look at it as a positive outcome.
Frustration and stress are wasted emotions. Been there done that ! If a few deep breaths aren’t enough, try more hehe 💆♀️
💕
Dear Bubbles,
Thank you for your advice and the worse that could happen, is I miss my approval window and my LOA doesn’t get approved in time for my surgery, which is a big issue and concern. My anxiety isn’t unwarranted, it’s a very important the papers get received on time. I’m still waiting to hear it’s all been approved. It is very frustrating because I’ve done all I can do and now I wait, anxiously….I distract myself with other things the best I can. Thank you for your suppprt and kindness. Xx
Dearest Rebecca,
All my fingers and toes are well and truly crossed for you!
Good luck my lovely 🥰
Thank you, Two for your support and care. Xx
🤭 Love the separation of the word.
HG does the addiction also apply to sociopaths and psychopaths or is it that an addiction is created via the manipulations of these people?
The addiction as I reference it, is to narcissists.
Is there any psychological profile that is particularly drawn to psychopaths? If so, would you please inform us? In pipeline, maybe?
Empaths particularly those who are saviours and care-givers are drawn to psychopaths, co-dependent personalities are drawn to psychopaths, narcissists and other psychopaths are drawn to psychopaths.
That makes sense.
I’m assuming this relates to the high functioning rather than the jailbird type of psychopath.
Caregiver and Saviour, the psychopath projects confidence, having his act together, lacks vulnerability. No requirement to save or look after. A ‘break’ from having to swoop in and take charge. Capable, the psychopath might be perceived as someone to lean on who could take the emotional strain.
The CoD would be drawn to the decisiveness and success of the psychopath, both acting as a shield and representing safety. There is the opportunity for the “behind every great man” role where the CoD takes the supporting role in terms of the psychopath’s success and achievement. Again, it’s the fact that the psychopath is ‘capable’ which acts as the draw.
Success, status, power, achievement for the narcs and other psychopaths.
Technically though, I think all people would be drawn to psychopaths due to the mirroring. The psychopath very quickly assess the ‘need’ of the target and then morphs into the solution. Every person has ‘a need’ somewhere along the line, therefore it follows that every person is a potential target.
They remind me a bit of Lucifer Morningstar!
https://youtube.com/shorts/w5gu0ae-Q6s?si=jchXVKjeYYm9l5OH
Ugh! This comment was a bit unnerving because I’m a savior & with a strong caregiver trait.
TS,
I can definitely see me falling for the jailbird type because I’d want to save them and take care of them.
Yes great question! There’s a lot of stories about women “falling in love with the jailbird types”, isn’t there? HGs explanation makes sense. I always presumed it would be codependency before coming across this work but I can see the points HG makes about other empathetic qualities.
Ps I was talking to my husband the other day about I have always had a hyper sensitivity to violence or the feeling of violence from someone so though I can “over help” luckily I think I’d sit this one out!
“I can definitely see me falling for the jailbird type because I’d want to save them and take care of them.”
The film “The Paperboy” will make the prospect less appealing, Leigh.
Leigh,
You would want to save a jailbird type, is that what you’re saying?
My ex was a jailbird, on probation when I met him. Oh boy, did my savior go into overdrive!
Hi Leigh,
I wouldn’t have automatically linked Saviour with the jailbird type. Probably because I was thinking more along the lines of the high functioning psychopath’s presentation as ‘capable’ seemingly representing a break from having to save. And with the carer a break or a form of escape from the caregiver role.
I didn’t consider the jailbird as being a candidate for saving. I think I’d see the jailbird as beyond my ability / too risky to save but I see what you mean.
Hi All,
I’m going to try and answer everyone so I don’t bog down the blog with all my responses.
AA & AV,
Oh gosh no! I don’t want a jailbird. Yikes! But I can see how a jailbird my appeal to my traits. As empaths we want someone who lights up our traits the most. If I was still young and naive & a jailbird made me believe that he saw the error of his ways, I might’ve fallen for it. Not anymore though.
TS,
I don’t remember if you have caregiver. Its one of my highest traits. I know when I read Mr. Tudor’s comment & then yours, I immediately thought I could see myself falling for it.
Jade,
This is interesting. I don’t over help. If someone doesn’t want my help, I can move on. But if they ask for help or make me believe I want to be saved, I will rush in.
I found your comment about the feeling of violence very interesting. The same happens to me. I have a very limited imagination. My minds eye is fuzzy at best. But what I can imagine is how people may feel about something and then I experience that feeling. Violence is something I can imagine feeling and when I do, it often stops me dead in my tracks.
I see jailbirds as beneath deserving of our considerable gifts and more of an observational study in our own protection.
I’m like you Leigh, if people don’t want my help, I won’t. It’s more that I sometimes get mixed up with picking up on feelings (remember recently lol). Oy vey! As you would say 😅
I find it hard to feel angry with others but others anger I pick up on. I do get frustrated but lashing out has happened a few times mainly poor hubby in an argument tbh. I think because my brains always thinking of all angles, it never gets there in time. I’m probably more cold fury than hot, if any.
NA,
Haha! I learned that the hard way! At least I did learn…I think…
“I see jailbirds as beneath deserving of our considerable gifts and more of an observational study in our own protection.” – Agreed!
Hi Two,
I’m more hot than cold, lol! But its not fury. Fury is a narcissist thing. Anger isn’t the same as fury.
I know Mr. Tudor just talked about it in a video recently. I think it was The Raging Narcissist.
https://youtu.be/5QRUfXoevKI?si=lYQ7_KMzrYw0Dr0F
I believe you have, AV.
Thanks re the fury comment Leigh, I did think after I wrote that, that that isn’t the right word for empaths. I haven’t watched that video yet, thanks for flagging! Hope you’re staying warm in NY ❤️❤️❤️
Great video rec re fury, Leigh. What a knob that guy is! 😄
Thank you HG for the education. I’ve seen someone react like that. Scary.
Great question, Jasmin!
Its nice to see your name pop up. Hope you’re well!
I’ve been curious about the answer to that question for a long time. I thought it was a fitting follow-up question so I took the opportunity.
Thank you very much Leigh, I’m doing well. How are you?
It was a great question! I didn’t know the answer would be so eye opening for me, but it really was! Thank you for asking it Jasmin!
I think I actually missed that original question from Witch. That was a great question too.
I’m doing really well. Thank you for asking!
Hi Jasmin! It is nice to see you!
Hi AV! It is nice to se you too. Hope you are still doing well. 🩷
Doing better than I deserve Jasmin. I have 9 healthy, happy grandchildren, health and a job that allows me a lot of time with them and 4 wonderful adult children. What’s going on in my state is a little unsettling but it is far worse in many places around the world, so I don’t dwell on it. I hope you’re still doing well also, glad to know you’re still around at times!
AV,
“What’s going on in my state is a little unsettling but it is far worse in many places around the world, so I don’t dwell on it.”
I have been following this (along with many I’m sure), including watching some of the live coverage of the protests and wondering about your take on things locally. The actions of some ICE agents there are pretty disconcerting (plus the governmental cover up)…and the ensuing deaths: very sad.
I know you said other places have it worse – but it’s similar to the abuse vs. abuse lite discussion. I am of the opinion that the damage being done shouldn’t be minimized.
WC,
Finally found this comment, apologies for the delayed reply.
I am not sure how to respond to your inquiry regarding my take locally. I guess the best thing to say is that I’m waiting until official investigation reports are released before making a judgement. I’ve seen a lot of videos, and heard a lot of news, right from the moment it happened pretty much, that is so conflicting, I wouldn’t guess as to the outcome.
I do know that the situation is affecting people in ways that I have found surprising.
I understand your comment about not minimizing it, it is very real and does affect us.
AV,
This is my second attempt (sorry if this is redundant, now Firefox gave me an error message also!). Thanks for your reply.
“…I’m waiting until official investigation reports are released before making a judgement”
I wonder if that will actually happen. Not likely while Trump is still in office.
“I’ve seen a lot of videos, and heard a lot of news, right from the moment it happened…”
Given that most people now carry cellphones, there is certainly a lot of footage out there, specifically of the shootings of Good and Pretti, from different angles. It is quite amazing to watch the speed with which everyone – with near immediate access to the videos – suddenly becomes judge and jury when reviewing the footage.
Stay safe AV. Hope things soon settle down in your neck of the woods.
People who feel compelled to declare they’ve moved on really haven’t. It’s just a high handed attempt to appear superior while denying their own participation and to garner sympathy and support. They are still very much stuck in their own pattern.
I liked your comment NA because when people say they’re leaving the blog, I take it as you’ve described “moving on”. Then I realized I had used the words “move on” in a comment to Annaamel, regarding how I respond to comments where I see Jordy attempting to draw me into an interaction. I said, I chuckle and move on, meaning I keep reading other comments. I have not moved on, nor did I intend to say I’ve moved on, from what I see as her nastiness to other bloggers. If I’m very honest about it, I wish she would leave the blog unless she can learn to be polite to everyone.
It costs nothing to be polite.
Does being polite cover the constant noisy bashing of a third party on another person’s blog for three weeks straight after the person in question has left?
Hi Anna Plyance,
“constant noisy bashing of a third party”
In my observation, I think most have aired their grievances in an comparatively civil manner.
And if several individuals happened to have similar grievances with regard to the same behaviours – does that constitute bashing?
“…after the person in question has left..”
I am not aware of any barriers to people, who are currently absent from the blog, from taking part in the discussion.
Anna,
You may know all this already but on the chance you don’t, I’ll ask.
Have you considered joining and posting in the Knowing HG forum?
You seem to like logical discussions, and that’s the meat of that section. Also, Jordy has many posts there to read and engage with. The focus of conversation is exclusively HG and his story.
It’s rather quiet there now but there’s a lot to read, for one thing, and new conversations are always possible.
Purchasing some of the KHG series gives access. Clue Hunters (the written version) offers 8 out of the 9 parts quite affordably. As do relevant parts of the audio series.
I probably can’t post there for a while but I expect I will again at some point. And when Jordy returns to commenting on the blog I’m sure she will check out KTN too to see if there’s been any additions.
Hi annaamel,
Thank you very much for so kindly inviting me. The things HG shares in the Knowing HG series are of course both fascinating and heartbreaking, and I highly recommend it. However, at this point I have no plans to join the forum.
Hi AP,
“Does being polite cover the constant noisy bashing of a third party on another person’s blog for three weeks”
It looks to me like you are deliberately choosing to highlight some behaviours and not others.
What are your thoughts about the repeated breaking of agreements on another person’s blog when the ‘blog-owner’ actually put the agreements in place?
Also, what are your thoughts about the constant silent treatment kind of “bashing of a third party on another person’s blog” occurring for years rather than weeks.
Have you noticed these and other behaviours?
Hello WiserNow,
I am absolutely choosing to highlight some behaviours and not others. We would be here all week otherwise.
The breaking of agreements, if there is any breaking, is none of my business. By writing here, we agree to subject ourselves to HG’s rules. The application of these rules is at his discretion. What he says goes. If we do not feel we are fairly treated – and I am sure most of us could find the odd occasion where we would have liked to get a different reaction from HG, I certainly have – we have to make a decision if it is worth it to continue under these terms or if they are a deal-breaker. No one is forcing us to stay here. Anybody who wants to do it differently can start their own blog and see how their approach works out. Complaining is not going to make him change his ways. Evidence is useful, but HG will have other criteria for allowing comments beyond what we see at the surface.
Once I decide that the benefits of continuing here outweigh the grievances, I may as well shut up about any perceived unequal treatment. I may have noticed patterns towards certain people, but I do not see much use in discussing it. The same considerations apply about the efficacy of complaining, and in some cases treating people differently may be entirely justified.
WiserNow,
Before I forget, one of the marvellous things about HG is that we can bombard him with complaints and admonishments or even insults for days, but if we ask a question right after, he will answer it as if the rest had never happened. One of your questions was a great example of this just a few days ago. This quality is very much underappreciated. If I had to deal with what he gets on a regular basis, I would have blacklisted the person ages ago.
The flipside of this is that we may praise and compliment him for days and ask a question right after, and he will answer the question as if the rest had never happened. We do not get one without the other.
Hi AP,
I agree with you that one of the marvellous things about HG is that he answers all questions from commenters here on the blog. Sometimes, a one or two word response leaves more unanswered than it does answered, nevertheless, it is educational and helpful all the same.
It is indeed appreciated by me regardless of, and despite, HG’s somewhat discretionary application of ‘control’ … oh, I mean ‘rules and agreements’ (and evidence).
Exactly.
It’s free to be an asshole too unfortunately.
😂
Hi WhoCares,
By noisy I mean the impression that has arisen that these comments have monopolised the blog to an extent. It has been a seemingly neverending stream of complaints. They might have each been civil in tone, although I could make an argument that their content often was not very polite, but the sheer amount and duration, day after day after day, without any new provocation from Jordyguin, is not what I come here to read, and I cannot see that there is much connection to the subject of narcissism (outside of the study of the behaviour of empaths). To me it constitutes an abuse of the space HG offers here and of his time to keep on harping on about this subject for this long. It is also impolite to any other readers who may have no interest in this kind of drama that has been artificially kept alive by one side of the debate for the last three weeks. This whole thread looks like it has turned from “Questioning HG” into “1000 Reasons Why Jordyguin Is Mean And We Are The Good Girls”. Not a very successful operation. The order of a round of mirrors must have been delivered to the table where “The Virtues of Keeping Your Mouth Shut” are sitting.
Anna Plyance,
“To me it constitutes an abuse of the space HG offers here and of his time to keep on harping on about this subject for this long. It is also impolite to any other readers who may have no interest in this kind of drama…”
I agree with you that it is a misuse of this space and that it’s likely not the thing that readers desire to see when they come to the blog to learn/read about narcissism. However, the “Questioning HG” space has long been in use (before this particular thread) for conversation on many topics other than posing questions to HG. When that happened, I don’t know. (I have been here a long time, but with significant hiatuses). And, I am only guessing, but if it were a concerning issue, HG would have redirected readers or curtailed conversation, as he does with baking, dream discussions and the like.
The topic is outstaying its welcome WC!
“The topic is outstaying its welcome WC!” – I apologize, Mr. Tudor. In my defense, I was trying to get people to go to the evidence. I can be a dog with a bone sometimes though and I should’ve backed off sooner.
No need to apologise, I’m simply making an observation.
Sorry, Anna – a further reply – I did want to say that I feel you made some fair points…
“the sheer amount and duration, day after day after day, without any new provocation from Jordyguin, is not what I come here to read, and I cannot see that there is much connection to the subject of narcissism (outside of the study of the behaviour of empaths). To me it constitutes an abuse…”
However, and similarly, one could could point out that the sheer amount and duration of needling comments that are peppered across the blog by Jordyguin are not what readers come here for.
And, that said, I intend to heed your suggestion with reference to “The Virtues of Keeping Your Mouth Shut.”
I made some changes to your comment
I could make an argument that “Jordy’s” content often was not very polite, but the sheer amount and duration, day after day after day, without any new provocation from “WN & AA”, is not what I come here to read, and I cannot see that there is much connection to the subject of narcissism (outside of the study of the behaviour of empaths). To me it constitutes an abuse of the space HG offers here and of his time to keep on harping on about this subject for this long. It is also impolite to any other readers who may have no interest in this kind of drama that has been artificially kept alive by one side of the debate for “months”. This whole thread looks like it has turned from “Questioning HG” into “1000 Reasons Why ‘WN & AA’ Are Mean And “I Am” The Good Girl”.
Now you know how I felt about Jordy’s incessant comments about WN & AA.
Anna Plyance,
What you are missing is that it’s all about narcissism, empathy etc. All of it.
What you’re also missing is the overall percentage of comments NOT about this situation by those if us you peg as wanting to be the “good girls”. You might want to take a look at that, if you’re to be accurate.
Hi Leigh and A Victor,
if you dislike it so much when Jordy does it, why do the same?
If there is an actual active argument between two people, it is a different situation. Plus, it is more interesting for other observers to watch a competitive tennis match than to watch one player hitting the ball against an unresponsive wall. An entertaining tennis match, or a cage fight, if that is more your thing, catches people’s interest. Controversy brings clicks, whether we are talking about the Yellow press or a blog.
As we see with TOW and the royal family, when one side isn’t playing ball, people tend to lose interest, and not just in the current topic, but in other comments from this source as well.
“The topic is outstaying its welcome WC!”
Got it. Thank-you, HG.
AP,
I responded to you so you could understand why I brought it up in the first place. Just like you were annoyed, so was I.
Hi Leigh
I’m curious about the phrase ‘dog with a bone.’ You say it quite a bit. Has it been said to you by others at times in your life?
Dear WhoCares,
Correct! Every conversation can be done in a mature adult manner.
I’ve found argumentative confrontational people have a “chip on their shoulder”. They always want to be right, no matter what! If they stopped and listened, they may even learn something.
Peel back the many layers and you will find the root of the problem.
Sadly, it’s not the way to win friends and influence people, all you end up doing is alienating people and your argument gets lost in translation. It’s basically a lose lose situation all round.
We humans are stubborn critters, however, some people will never learn !
Hello Bubbles,
“I’ve found argumentative confrontational people have a “chip on their shoulder”. They always want to be right, no matter what! If they stopped and listened, they may even learn something.”
Yes, agreed, Bubbles – and if not a chip on the shoulder, some individuals are just primed to be argumentative. Especially, if, in addition to being argumentative, they are quick to anger, have a strong of justice and truth-seeker traits – add to that a strong sense of pride…then you have someone who has great difficulty backing down and reconsidering their position.
Hi Bubbles and WhoCares,
“Every conversation can be done in a mature adult manner.”
Yes, this is true.
It’s also true that Upper Mid-range and Greater narcissists have very well-maintained facades and polished manners. They come across as ‘polite’ and ‘respectable.’ Their conversations are ‘mature’ and ‘adult.’
They don’t raise their voice or cause a scene or use physical violence. Instead, they use their intellect, social status, and reputation to control. They have a bigger fuel matrix so they pull strings and manipulate others to do their dirty work.
They are still narcissists. They’re still manipulating and abusing. The abuse that goes on under the surface is just as harmful and often even more harmful.
Personally, I think people need to be careful about making ‘politeness’ and ‘respectability’ a test for who is and who isn’t a narcissist.
It’s a fine line.
For example, if Nick Shirley was ‘argumentative and confrontational’ with the perpetrators of fraud in Minnesota five years ago, there would have been less fraud over the past five years. There would also have been a smaller scale of protest back then without the need for brutal law enforcement.
On the one hand, being ‘argumentative and confrontational’ is frowned upon. On the other hand, silence is a form of consent or approval.
WiserNow,
“Personally, I think people need to be careful about making ‘politeness’ and ‘respectability’ a test for who is and who isn’t a narcissist.”
That’s quite the leap, isn’t it?
But I do agree with you that Upper Midrange narcissists can be extraordinarily polite and professional. I think at my last workplace I encountered one: she was accomplished & recognized in her field, but gave off an air of superiorty and disdain towards others (at times) – she had this interesting (yet predictable) way of breathing out through her nose when something displeased her or was expressing a sniff of disdain towards another. She definitely exhibited haughtiness, but yet was quite polite and professional with her colleagues.
Of course, we know that Greaters, and HG, engage in polite discourse on the regular.
WC,
“some individuals are just primed to be argumentative. Especially, if, in addition to being argumentative, they are quick to anger, have a strong of justice and truth-seeker traits – add to that a strong sense of pride”
This indicates an empath, which could be. A person who is argumentative, quick to anger and prideful can also indicate a narcissist who may be capable of cognitive empathy displays of justice and truthseeker traits. This is where it’s important to look at motive. As you know, an empath’s motive will be different than a narcs, who’s will be the prime aims. Sometimes delineating is very difficult and it’s always important to watch patterns over a period of time.
Hi WhoCares,
When I commented, it was based on the overall conversation between you and Bubbles.
If you take one sentence out of my comment and focus on it without considering the rest of my comment, then yes, it looks like a leap.
If you consider my comment – overall – the point I was making was that the appearance of “mature and adult” conversations can be misleading.
The belief that an appearance of politeness and respectability translates to real and actual ‘respect’ and ’empathy’ is delusional.
Consider the following from Bubbles:
“I’ve found argumentative confrontational people have a “chip on their shoulder”. They always want to be right, no matter what! If they stopped and listened, they may even learn something.”
Would you say that it’s a ‘leap’ to assume that argumentative and confrontational person ‘always’ have a chip on their shoulder or ‘always’ want to be right, no matter what! … ?
When I was reading Bubbles’ comment and then your response which was:
“Yes, agreed, Bubbles – and if not a chip on the shoulder, some individuals are just primed to be argumentative.”
… the exchange seemed quite judgemental to me.
After being on the blog for a while, I think it’s fair to say that everyone here is capable of being argumentative and stubborn. Everyone has demonstrated at times that they ‘want to be right, no matter what!’. Does this mean that everyone has a “chip on their shoulder”?
Different people express their argumentativeness or stubbornness in different ways. They may refuse to engage, or they may only engage with certain people, or they may conspicuously agree with HG ‘no matter what,’ etc.
From experience (on the blog and IRL), I’ve found that the appearance of ‘politeness’ and ‘respectability’ can be superficial and unreliable.
Dear WhoCares,
Haha… the “dog with the bone” syndrome, stubborn, persistent, obstinate, relentless, who just won’t let go. I don’t like it when they get angry, they’ve lost control.
Some people just like to hear their own voice and get their jolly’s off.
That’s when you change the subject or exist stage left for one’s own sanity.
I’m totally guilty of being sucked in, I will defend myself til the death (haha) no wonder narcs love me. It’s usually after a couple of glasses of bubbles when one’s gets all loosey goosey haha
We empaths really need to zip it more 🤐 (said in the nicest way possible)
Haha
Guilty 🤭
I mean guilty about the not really have moved on part. I’m not interested in sympathy. I did it to myself. Very much stuck in my own pattern, 100%. I need to completely detach from all this stuff and concentrate on life that’s happening around me. Instead I burry my head in fantasy.
Hi Jade,
I had missed the below comment for you:
I said, “I think when a mid ranger says they’re a narcissist, its really a blame shift.”
You said, “I’m wondering why they’d do this? I thought maybe pity plays or “blaming” being a narcissist for their bad behaviour? 🤔 It also seems like a transference of power and could make them vulnerable too though…”
It appears to be a transfer of power, but its not. They’re using vulnerability as a weapon in their toolkit to manipulate. The goal is the prime aims. They’ll use being vulnerable as a tool to gain the prime aims, which means they’re still in control.
My mother and husband are both victim narcs and that’s their go to manipulation.
An unaware narcissist that says they’re a narcissist is doing the same thing. They’re using it as a tool to manipulate in order to gain the prime aims. The blame shift comes into play because its not their fault, its the narcissism’s fault.
Ah ok. Thanks Leigh. That makes sense. I guess a lot of my frame of reference is my mum which definitely wouldn’t say that but I can see how others could absolutely use it! 😅 I think most of my suspects are the mealy mouthed, shriveled, walnut balled mid rangers and maybe not victim so much too… I feel like my brain is expanding every day with all I’m learning!
Hi Jade,
I wanted to clear something up here. My mom and my husband have never said they’re a narc either. But they do use being “vulnerable” as a way to control their prime aims are being met. With my mom it manifests as her wanting people to take care if her. She’s been in a nursing home since she’s 65. That’s exactly what she wants because then her prime aims are totally met. She doesn’t care that someone has to change her diaper, bath her & dress her. She wants people to do that for her. She’s using vulnerability but it gives her power & control. By the way, she has her wits about her. She’s very coherent. No dementia at all.
Very helpful Leigh. That makes complete sense and would show the entitlement and lack of accountability side of things. My mum sees being ill as weakness I think (even though was a nurse!) .. it’s subtle but you can feel it when you know, especially since I’ve had chronic pain.. she talks more these days about people with “high pain thresholds”. It’s interesting the variety of ways things manifest…
Hi Jade,
I’m sorry your mom talks about people who have high pain thresholds. I hope it doesn’t bother you too much when she says things like that. When my mom says things that might hurt, I remind myself its the narcissism that’s driving her. It helps to draw a line and detach. Its not my mom saying it, its the narcissism.
Yes, the narcissist’s manipulations can manifest in so many different ways. Have you listened to the Deathbed Series at all? The COVID Soundbites are good too. Its a fun way to learn about how different narcissists manipulate.
Just coming back to this Leigh. As you know I’m not sure about my dads “status” but reading this comment makes me think he did use vulnerability as manipulation. Not in the same way you described with your mum and husband but definitely something in the ballpark 🤔 … And I think he might have had health anxiety too.
But vulnerability wise, he would sometimes pretend to be “dumb” .. he told us this himself.. that he’d do this with his clients sometimes if they were annoyed with him about something he’d done and I know he’s done it to me and others (related to my new comment on the stare thread). I don’t know if he wanted taken care of as such but would download his health worries onto you without thinking of the impact on you (me). He’d often just talk at people generally without thinking of the impact on them or asking about them. My mum does too but clearly the prime aims in my eyes with her.
Every time I peel a new layer of the onion, a new one appears! 😅🧅
And the clearer I start to see them, the more I can see where my over-caretaking and people pleasing developed 🤔
Hi Jade,
I had to chuckle at your “peeling the onion” comment. That’s how I describe it too! LOL!
I think you’re very astute. I also think you’re very compassionate. I know you want to be fair when trying to figure out your father’s status. Could you just look at the dynamic between your father and mother? That might be helpful.
Thanks Leigh. It doesn’t really bother me tbh, like you with your mum, I clearly see that the narcissism is driving it. Thanks for asking though. weirdly I have often said to my husband that I think it is a good thing this has happened because it sealed the deal for me that she’s a narcissist. I can see it’s the narcissism asserting control over the situation. It doesn’t like it because amongst other things it conincided with drastically reduced contact with me / fuel plus her facade and nit seeing her daughter much. I mostly feel quite at peace with my mum now.
Thank you Leigh. Great minds think alike! 🧅 😄
Thank you for your kind comment. ❤️🙏 That is how I try to be. I don’t want to be anyone fool anymore and am a truth seeker but try to be compassionate in the process (I don’t always manage that tho ofc I’m human like us all 😏).
Tbh I know deep down there’s a good chance I’m a double acon. If I was reading what I wrote, I’d be thinking 🚩🚩🚩 lol, not lol! 🥴 I’m happy for you to say if that’s what you’re thinking btw. As you can see, I’m thinking all things from all angles myself.
I think subconsciously me and the siblings put him on a pedestal compared to my mum. But the rest of them still idolise/deny anything bad about both to varying degrees.
My parents together… My mum was “in charge”. Dad said that once to me a few years ago in a rare honest moment “she has to be in charge”. They seemed “happy” but whilst I think she got her way mostly, it was not in a particularly terrible/obviously exploitative way. Your average older couple. He was quite introverted but would just talk at people as mentioned. They’d socialise a fair bit, driven by her and I think both sucked the energy from people in different ways as mentioned. They seem well liked (facade in both?) and a big group of friends (driven by her). Tbh behind closed doors they were both similar to outside but I realise both facades were so good that they’d do things in open sight, in and out of the home. I can see they play and manipulate in a deniable way in front of you, sometimes my dad would obviously help my mum or set things up or do it himself.
A small example that I thought told me a lot… I was shopping with them both at a charity shop. Mum asked dad if they should buy some (drinking) glasses and he said they didn’t need any in reply. I watched mum walk straight up to the till and then buy them (assertion of control). It was not a big deal money wise but odd to me.. I’d listen to my husband, if I asked a question like that. I said “oh mums buying them” to dad. He said “oh well” and then praised her and laughed about what she’d done when she came back to us and told her she was fantastic!
Also mh history with my dad (relate to my recent questions to HG re anti depressants, and suicide attempt issue in COVID.)
So a lot to unpack. He was the “cuddly” one, grandkids and us “kids” loved him but a lot of covert stuff, on his part … I could never rely on him to be honest about his or mum’s behaviour and he did stuff himself and enabled her.
When I challenged him on deserting mum when she was ill in hospital (I understood it was related to health anxiety but asked to talk to us so one of us could take over) he stonewalled me and just stared at me blankly (re previous comment). Mum also deserted him when he was seriously ill and went on holiday rather than hell him recover because… (prime aims)!
So they were as bad as each other a lot of the time to each other or towards us but she looked “worst”. Though apparently I’m the only one that sees any of this (apart from one SIL and my hubby).
Sorry for the essay! V confusing. I doubt he’s an empath really as I said previously but aware I’m “close to” the situation.
Hi Jade,
Yes, once I saw it with my mom, it was done and it was nice to be able to seal the deal. That’s how it is for my narc husband too. I can see them very clearly.
As for you Dad, I asked about your parent’s dynamic because I think looking at their dynamic might be the best way to help you determine your Dad’s status. I don’t want to dissuade or persuade you in either way. I think its best you come to any determination yourself.
Like I said in an comment on the Narcissist’s Stare thread, empaths aren’t angels. I’ve done some really narcy things myself. Normals aren’t angels either. Maybe he’s a normal and only had empathy for his family & close friends. As a normal he’d also have higher narc traits.
What helped me with both my daughters was to ask myself, do I see a pathological need for control? Sorry if that’s not much help.
Thank you Leigh. I’m glad you got there with your husband and mom too.
Yeh I agree re empaths, I’m definitely not an angel .. ask my husband lol. He called me out on some stuff this week that was fair. 🤷♀️ I can be a git for sure ! We’re human. Oh and look after prince harry! 🫤 Or normal.. absolutely.
Thank you. I just wanted you to know I’m ok to talk about it. Re pathological need for control. My gut says no. However he got control in his own way. But again I don’t think pathological. Also, he did apologise before he died. He just had a side that seemed to enjoy stirring, enabling and hurting others as mentioned. Thanks for your help!
Hi Jade,
I’m linking an article & video on false contrition. Maybe you can see if the info here resonates at all.
https://narcsite.com/2025/09/15/never-sorry-the-narcissists-seven-false-contritions-3/
Hi Jade,
I wanted to address your comment regarding your suicide attempt separately. Am I understanding you correctly that you attempted suicide during COVID? If that’s true, I’m very sorry to hear that. I hope you’re okay now. Was it due to the medication, you’re taking? Was it because of the pain you were in? Was it due to the isolation during Covid?
Apologies for the confusing message Leigh. It was my dad not me. I’m not sure completely intentional but nevertheless. I think it all got on top of him. 😕 I mentioned as it has crossed my mind re fuel crisis but I think my gut is not.
Btw Leigh, sorry, I missed the COVID and deathbed narc recommendations from you. I’ll check those out!
That’s great, thank you Leigh. 🙏
Hi Jade,
Oh ok. Thank you for clearing that up for me regarding your Dad. After reading it, I wondered if its possible your father suffered a breakdown due to being ensnared for all those years?
I have wondered that too Leigh. 🤔 He also had his ways of not being around the house too much at times and lockdowns stopped that.
Ps I’m going to step back here at narcsite but wanted to thank you for your kindness and support. You’ve been a huge help, along with many other bloggers and of course HG. ❤️🙏 I’ve learnt a huge amount in 6 months. Ps I’m kittenpaws123 on YT if I see you there!
You’re very welcome, Jade! I’m happy I was able to help!
I do listen to the videos on YouTube but I don’t comment too much. But I’ll definitely keep an eye out!
Hi two and Leigh,
Thought I’d add a comment to your conversation here – hope you don’t mind.
Two,
Your description of the dynamic between your mum and dad made me think of a couple of things.
Considering your example of your mum buying the set of glasses even though your dad said they weren’t needed …
… your dad quickly changed his mind, dismissed it, laughed and praised your mum even though she didn’t care what he actually thought.
It makes me think that your dad probably had a case of cognitive dissonance at that point. On the one hand, he probably thought, “we don’t need another set of drinking glasses.” On the other hand, when your mum went ahead and bought them, he also probably thought, “It’s not a big deal. I’m not going to argue about it.”
So, your dad made a quick decision to keep the peace and go against his initial opinion. He ‘decided’ in that moment to deny his true thoughts and to smooth things over. He praised your mum instead and said she was brilliant.
In this way, I think your dad also ‘controlled’ the situation by not arguing or causing a conflict with your mum. However, the ‘control’ came at a cost. He agreed with something that he didn’t genuinely agree with.
To draw a parallel, after watching HG’s recent videos on Brooklyn Beckham, it made me wonder about the dynamic between David and Victoria. As HG pointed out, David is a narcissist and Victoria isn’t. This surprised me because it seemed to me that they both are.
For example, Victoria ‘allowed’ her children to be used like props in the family’s lifelong PR and photo opps. If she has any empathy and cares about the effects of the constant media attention on her kids, she wouldn’t have allowed it.
I think Victoria also ‘rationalises’ the way her children are used to promote ‘Brand Beckham.’ I also think she rationalises the way her marriage appears in the media, like everything between her and David is always peachy and lovey dovey. It’s a way of controlling the narrative.
The example of your mum and dad buying the drinking glasses also made me think about the effects of cognitive dissonance.
When cognitive dissonance leads to ongoing or unresolvable cases of conflicting thoughts, it leads to increased rumination. This is where the racing mind or ‘overthinking’ of the empathic person becomes relevant.
If someone is denying (or trivialising or repressing) their true thoughts on a regular basis or in an ongoing way, they will ruminate more. This is because their mind wants to resolve the discomfort or tension that the dissonance causes.
It is now known that excessive rumination, especially when conflicting thoughts can’t be easily or conclusively ‘resolved,’ leads to depression. There is now scientific research that shows a link as follows:
– unresolved cognitive dissonance –> ruminative thoughts –> depression.
There is also a self-perpetuating loop or spiral between rumination and depression. Rumination leads to depression, while depression causes more rumination, and so on.
Also, when there is cognitive dissonance that affects say, a married couple’s relationship, I think that one way the couple ‘resolves’ the dissonance between them is to triangulate someone else. For example, the third party may be the couple’s child. Therefore, the child is used in a way that enables the married partners to regulate their emotions and the relationship between themselves.
This is where the scapegoat or golden child comes in to the picture. The parents ‘create’ a scapegoat child who is ‘blamed’ when the parents need to resolve the ‘dissonance’ between themselves.
two and Leigh,
Sorry for the long comment. Your conversation made me think of these points. They’re fairly complicated to describe clearly without going into detail.
I really appreciate joining in WN. your comment was very insightful and explains a lot of what I saw of my parents relationship. I think everything you said was correct. My dad ended up on antidepressants and there was MH stuff so though nothing was ever talked about, stuff was there. He was no angel and seemed to enjoy helping mum meet her prime aims as well as stirring the shit himself a lot of the time. I watched him wind up my little nephew further who was crying. He never apologized to me for anything until his death.
But the cognitive dissonance thing was strong and I had it too.. I understand it. Like him i would rationalise things away to avoid conflict. Gaslight myself. One time they got a new kitchen fitted and it was obviously bodged but he kept telling us all what an amazing job the company had done.
TS explained more about the codep on a different thread recently and I’m starting to wonder if that’s part of the picture of my parents marriage. He threw himself and his kids under the bus at times for peace. I understand it though too, they were Irish Catholics of a certain time. Divorce would be frowned upon. 🫤 Weirdly they seemed “happy” I’m their own way but who knows… 🤷♀️
Ps WN
quite fascinating (and sad) about the beckhams. My guess is Brooklyn has lashed out as he’s getting it in the ear from Nicola and it’s creating a pressure in him to “choose”. But yes I wasn’t sure who the narc was. When I saw about his mums dancing at first I thought her as I can imagine my mum doing something like that but I can see it makes sense. I’d like to learn more. He’s had lots of affairs. I wonder if she’s still in love with him or it’s purely ” business” from her side too. I feel sorry for Harper as well.
Hi two,
Brooklyn’s insta-rant has lifted the lid on what goes on at Brand Beckham behind the scenes. He’s the truthteller in the family. Their family life – especially for the kids – must be very difficult. Their wealth makes it easier, but living in a goldfish bowl with the whole world looking in sounds like a nightmare.
On a lighter note, during the weekend I came across the hilarious memes and posts sending up Victoria’s ‘wedding dance’ with Brooklyn. Very funny! 💃🤵♂️🤣
I agree re Brooklyn being the truth teller but I feel like he’s used a flame thrower when he could have used a match. Who knows what really goes on though and you’re right, it must be a nightmare esp for the kids. I understand brand Beckham for a narcissist i.e. David but less for Victoria. It seems that the Kardashians keep it all under wraps but there’s a fair few narcs in that family. All those years of spending money on PR up in smoke but the truth comes out in the end.
Ps yes I saw lots of really good memes too lol 😂
Ps I was thinking a lot about what you wrote re technicolour and how I process things and really appreciate how much you “got it”. I’m guessing you must be quite similar?
Hi two,
About Brooklyn using a flamethrower when he could have used a match…
I can understand his very public outburst in a way.
When I compare it to my own family experiences, I think it’s the result of a progressive and escalating situation. The thing that’s obvious to onlookers is Brooklyn’s one very public statement lashing out at his family.
What the world hasn’t seen is the lead-up to this one public statement. He has probably made many accommodating and private statements and been ‘reasonable’ many times leading up to his ‘rant.’
In my own family, there were times we were together and to begin with, the conversation was very calm and ‘normal.’ It would just be an everyday discussion.
At first, if I said something or commented on how something made me feel, at times I’d be generally dismissed or contradicted in a benign way. To start off with, I’d think, “Okay, no big deal. I said my piece and that’s that. I don’t expect everyone to agree.”
As the conversation continued, there would be more examples of the same thing; I’d give my opinion in a calm and interactive way and again, it would be dismissed or ignored and I would be talked over or contradicted.
After a while of this, there would be a build-up of tension and the conversation was no longer calm and interactive. It became more combative and there were ‘sides’ – for example, “me vs them.”
The build-up of tension – to me – felt like, “Here we go again. I’m being continually dismissed and deliberately contradicted. All I want is for us to be a ‘real family’ and to feel that I’m actually being heard and understood as a respected, valued member of this family.”
Then I would say something in a louder tone of voice or in a tone of annoyance or exasperation. In my mind I wasn’t ‘arguing’ and I wasn’t being ‘unreasonable.’ Instead, it was an attempt to be heard and understood.
At this point though, someone in my family would inevitably say, “There’s no need to be like that. Why are you arguing? Why do you have to make everything an argument?”
To compare this example with Brooklyn’s public rant, I think Brooklyn has spent years and years living and dealing with the way he and his family interacted with each other.
To us, it looks like a flamethrowing public rant, however, to Brooklyn, the underlying motivation that moved him to do it is more like a progressive, ‘toe over the usual line’ kind of emotional reaction. To him, it’s probably a totally justified reaction following a build-up of tension over a long period of time.
To add to the tension, Brooklyn now has two narcissists on either side of him pulling him in opposite directions. He has the tension of dealing with his family as well as the tension of dealing with his wife. The pressure he’s under has resulted in his public rant.
About the Kardashians and the way they keep it all under wraps, it makes me think there may not be a member of their family who is conflicted or feels the tension as much regarding all the media and PR activities they’re involved in. They may all feel that it’s justified. Or, it may be ‘ego-syntonic’ with regard to their own innate personalities or how it affects them in a personal way. I’m speculating here – I don’t know much about them and don’t follow them, so I’m unaware of all the ‘tea’ about them.
Yes, about the ‘technicolor’ aspect, I’m pretty sure I’m an HSP. I’ve been this way ever since I can remember. When I was very little, people would say I was ‘delicate,’ lol. I remember once when I was a teenager, someone in the wider family said I was like ‘froth.’ In my native language, the word for froth can be changed and used as an affectionate nick-name.
When I was younger, I genuinely thought there was something wrong with me and I tried to change myself and my thinking. I wanted to ‘toughen up.’ It didn’t work, haha 🤣
Now that I understand myself better, I actually like being an HSP. I like knowing that I notice details and nuances and process things deeply.
The factor that’s important is to know yourself and know the things that work for you and those that don’t.
Hello Two and Leigh:
I think you have to ask yourself… how do they make you feel… There is that old saying that people won’t remember the things you have said ( and I would add to that… “ or done”) but they will remember how they made you feel.
I would start there. Do I enjoy this relationship? Do I walk away lighter or do I feel bad, do I feel drained, and weary. If you feel “ down” each time then … boundaries. Everyone has the right to be happy. And abuse doesn’t belong in anyone’s life.
Also there are HG consults! 😊
Hi Contagious,
“Do I enjoy this relationship? Do I walk away lighter or do I feel bad, do I feel drained, and weary.” – I love this! That’s exactly it! How do they make you feel?
Thank you Leigh💕
Contagious, great comment, thank you for writing it.
Thank you!
Hi Contagious,
You had asked me about Nick Reiner and I thought it was best to start a new thread.
I don’t know how much is accurate but I read that the Reiners weren’t afraid for their own lives. They were more afraid that Nick would do something to himself and that’s why they brought him to the party the night before they were killed.
In past interviews, Rob had said that he felt he knew best about his son. He said healthcare professionals told him that his son was manipulating him. He had expressed regret for listening to the healthcare professionals and ultimately decided he knew his son best. Its sad that he didn’t realize the extent of Nick’s sickness. It cost him and his wife’s life.
If I had to take a wild guess, I’d say Rob Reiner had some CoD in his makeup and didn’t want to see the truth about his son. That’s probably why Nick still lived on the property.
I see their now saying that Nick was on a new medication for schizophrenia. I’m assuming that towards an insanity plea. I hope not. I definitely see ASPD in Nick. I’m curious if he’s a psychopath or sociopath though. I’m looking forward to more info from Mr. Tudor on this.
TS,
I want to apologize. I didn’t just bring up my concerns because of other bloggers, I was also concerned for you. When I saw you weren’t concerned, I should’ve dropped it.
I’m sorry I carried on about it. I’ll zip my lip now. I hope you have Happy New Year!
Hi TS,
I’m going to respond here to your last comment.
You said, “What makes me uncomfortable is when commenters pool grievances together as a group, rather than each commenter raising their grievances independently of each other. That’s a personal preference but I think it’s more difficult to resolve things that way.”
I don’t see anyone pooling grievances against Jordy though. Contagious thinks Jordy’s an empath and wants me to work on getting along with her. AA thinks she’s a super empath. You’re supporting her. Other bloggers are supporting her as well. AV is supporting me but that’s because Jordy has said things to her too.
As for LET, after that whole debacle on the Key to Entry Thread, she stopped commenting. Like you, I do hope it was because she decided she wanted to enjoy her knew responsibilities of being a grandma.
I didn’t want to ignore your last comment. I respect you too much to do that. But I don’t think I want to talk about Jordy anymore.
Hi Leigh,
I’m winding down on it too. I will respond to Annamel’s comment but I think I’ve said as much as I have to say on it.
I’m glad you mentioned the name of the thread where LET left. I thought it was a discussion that took place on a ‘What the Codependent Empath Does’ thread. I did go back and read those, Jordy was active on one of them but it was clearly not the discussion you were referring to.
I also agree with Annamel, I didn’t see anything in your comment to me other than concern. No need to apologise at all, all good.
Here’s what started it all:
https://narcsite.com/2023/06/05/knowing-the-narcissist-the-key-to-entry/#comment-444046
Hi TS,
One more thing, I do agree that my comments haven’t always been flawless or innocent. I know I can be pointed and provocative as well sometimes.
Hi Leigh,
I know you were concerned, it’s all good 🙂
You too. I hope you have a Happy and narc silent New Year!
Xx
Fwiw, Leigh, I don’t believe you owe TS any apology. You politely queried her position and when her response frustrated you that came out in your subsequent responses to her. It’s okay to have strong feelings and articulate them. You didn’t say an anything offensive or even abrasive to TS in my opinion.
Thank you, AA!
I wanted to apologize because I can be like a dog with a bone sometimes. Even if its well intentioned, its not necessarily the right thing to do.
Maybe us empaths find it harder when others aren’t on the same page even if it’s ok to not to be on the same page? 🤔
Happy New Year and best wishes for 2026, everyone!
Happy New Year, WhoCares and to everyone! Xx
Happy New Year, Rebecca!
Better late than never.. happy new year all! 🥳
Happy New Year, HG! Happy New Year to all!
Watching the fireworks around the world has been impressive so far.
Sydney’s fireworks were beautiful as usual. This year they were tinged with sadness as well, but it was reassuring to see that Sydney-siders and tourists alike turned out in droves to watch them.
London’s fireworks were amazing. I love the way the London Eye is used to great effect.
May 2026 be a fantastic year for everyone!
Thank you.
Dear Mr Tudor and lovelies,
Wishing you all a very Happy New Year for 2026
Thank you Mr Tudor for your continued fascinating educational content
Sincerest best wishes to everyone
Thank you.
Happy new year HG! Thank you for all of the material you have provided this year and before. Happy new year to all! I wish you all many blessings.
You’re welcome.
Dear HG, here’s a question. Probably this is Fri my people pleasing side too but I think it’s relevant. What would you like to see more of on the blog? And less of in 2026? (Serious answers 😉 not for us all to think you’re great, as I think that’s mostly a given!).
More use of consultations when people are posing questions about personal circumstances. In order to address those with the precision they deserve I invariably need more information from people and need to convey more information, therefore people should refrain from using blog comments as a substitute for consultation material.
More consideration of the content of articles.
I would say less astrology, but it would be more accurate to state no astrology which I have so ordered.
Thank you HG. 🙏
There seems to be a lot of short term memory abound. Especially from those crying foul the loudest and for whom. It’s an interesting dynamic to observe. A round of mirrors bartender!
Thank you NA for always letting your logic and open mindedness’s prevail. Happy New Year to you and everyone on the blog! A special Happy New Year to you HG, may you have a prosperous and fueled New Year! Xxx
Happy New Year to you too FoolMe1Time xx
Happy New Year!
Happy New Year, FM1T! 💚
Happy New Year, Who Cares and everyone else on here. Xx
Well NA, since I’m the one crying foul the loudest, I’m interested to hear what I’m forgetting. What did I do to Jordy to warrant her attack on several other bloggers?
Hi Leigh,
Just a quick note that may help…
If a fellow blogger’s comment is ambiguous and is not addressed to anyone specifically, there’s no need to jump to conclusions and take the comment personally or literally.
If a fellow blogger makes this kind of ambiguous, accusatory comment to no-one in particular on a regular basis, then it says more about them than it does about you.
Wishing you a Happy New Year! 😊🥂
Thank you, WN!
“If a fellow blogger makes this kind of ambiguous, accusatory comment to no-one in particular on a regular basis, then it says more about them than it does about you.” – You’re so right!
I hope you have a happy new year as well!
You’re welcome, Leigh, and thanks also for the New Year wishes.
I hope everyone here – HG and all bloggers have a Happy New 2026.
Hey Leigh: How do you know you are being called out? Btw not naming people, innuendos, using narc terminology… it’s negative and wrong. As empaths, let’s start with empathy and end with empathy. Happy New Years!
Contagious,
You’re right! I don’t know I’m being called out. But since I’m calling foul the loudest right now, I assumed it was me.
Well…. Assume the best not the worst! I wish you every happiness in the New Year!
Hey NA – on the subject of rounds…I know a suggested summer drink of yours, but what do you recommend to accompany the recent blast of Canadian frost/rain/blizzard crap that we had?
I love the snow, but I thought it would never stop blizzarding the other day…
Hi WhoCares
Forty Creek Butter Tart Cream Liquor over ice. Or ice cream.
Canadian and comforting.
NA – sweet! Thanks.
I actually partook in original Forty Creek & Canada Dry last night…sooo, mostly Canadian.
Though my teeth quake at the thought, I may have to try the Butter Tart Cream Liqueur. Sounds perfectly indulgent over ice cream.
Happy New Year to you, NarcAngel.
A snowball, WC? #the80s 🧑🎤
Jade – Haha!
I had no idea what a snowball is…had to look it up.Maybe I’ll have to expand my drinking repertoire.
Oh, and thank-you for assisting me in avoiding conflict!
Lol WC. very fashionable with Brits in the 80s! I don’t think you’ve missed much 😉
And you WC ✌️
Just to confuse things ! I’m going to change my name here to “two” (as in Jade 2.0) .. just me being a paranoid Polly! 😶🌫️
Happy new year all ♥️
Happy New Year to you two!!
Thank you who cares!
Love two ✌️😄
NA, loved the ‘mirrors’ reference……only the shards would be useful due to selected character traits acquisition, not necessarily the ‘whole’ mirror. Good to ‘see’ you. Have a Happy New Year x
NA,
For what its worth, I know I wasn’t innocent in the disagreement we had. I know it was my fault and it was based on my own insecurities.
When I said I was innocent, I’m meant specifically with Jordy.
I’ve apologized to you and I’ve tried to make it right. I’m not sure what else I can do at this point.
But your comment doesn’t change how I feel about this current situation with Jordy.
Leigh
My comment came from observations over time and involve a number of different people. Jordy is the latest focus, and there has been much made of her comments. Particularly towards WN and Annamel for example, but I also recall both of those individuals being called out as abusive in their comments towards others at points in the past by some of the same offering to their defense now. Thats just one example of apparent fickle short term memory. Also, the claims of addressing things for the sake of newcomers seems a bit disingenuous at times. When recently a comment of mine was misinterpreted, it was ARYA (relatively new commenter at the time) that stated she saw no offense in what I stated and that (gasp) she could identify with it. Is it honestly concern for newcomers? I don’t think so. Discussions about how we are all different, and varied opinions are welcomed and keep things spicy….blah blah
Except when it’s (enter name of person not cared for here), oh and her, oh and I don’t like the way you said that, and I don’t think you are setting a good example by interacting with (x)……..
The lists goes on, but we’re all free to say what we want right? Laughable.
I’m not asking you to do anything Leigh. I never said you did anything to cause Jordys comments to others that you (and others) may have found abusive or in poor taste. I just find the scapegoating of Jordy hypocritical. You have apologized to me previously, but return to assuming that when I comment I am calling you out specifically when I am not. This points (to me) to a prejudice in how you receive my contributions. My comment was a general reminder that we can all use a mirror from time to time to REFLECT instead of projecting and deflecting.
NA,
The definition of a
scapegoat is an individual or group unfairly blamed for the faults or problems of others.
You and I will have to disagree because I believe Jordy brought this on herself.
But like I said to TS, I don’t want to talk about Jordy anymore.
I wasn’t upset with you on that comment where Arya supported you. I actually thanked you for the comment because you gave me food for thought with regards to my daughter. But I did have a different interpretation than what you meant. But I still wasn’t upset.
You’re right though. I don’t know how to take your comments to me. Sometimes I feel like your comments are a dig on me.
I know that’s not your problem though, its mine.
Also, since I’m the one coming to AA & WN’s defense now, I have to say I don’t ever recall calling AA or WN abusive. I do believe they’re straightforward and direct. I’ve also disagreed with them at times. But I don’t ever recall calling them abusive.
I’m going to need proof that I’ve called them abusive because I don’t think that’s true. I own my words, NA.
Dearest NA,
Hi n Happy New Year to you lovely one
Where there’s mirrors, there’s usually smoke, cough cough
Anyhoo, must dash, Mr Bubbles and I are off to open a childcare day centre in Minnesota…… cough cough🏖️😉
Surely a Learing Centre?
Dear Mr Tudor,
Without a doubt, the signs say so and includes a bonus direct line to the Governor
I read childcare centres did well in Sweden for a time.
If not, buying a church these days in Australia includes substantial benefits from the govt, goody. I could turn them into childcare centres, then Mr Bubbles and I could go retire in Ibiza and sip Pina Coladas. I learnt Spanish eons ago, it would be a win win. Hehe
Hi HG and Bubbles,
I’ve watched the Nick Shirley viral video about fraudulent Somali-owned and operated day-care and health-care centres in Minnesota.
I also watched a CNN news report about Nick Shirley’s video.
In the CNN news report, Nick Shirley said himself in an interview with a CNN reporter and I quote:
“I’m not here to say this is a left or right issue, but no, fraud is fraud. I’m not out here trying to put a twist on things.”
Even though Nick Shirley said these actual words in the CNN report, he was repeatedly called “a MAGA content creator” or “a MAGA YouTuber.”
In addition, the CNN report mentioned that Elon Musk and JD Vance retweeted Nick Shirley’s video and their tweets were shown. Both claimed the fraud was caused by Democrats.
While watching Nick Shirley’s viral video, I saw him and the Minnesotan man with him talk about the corrupt Somalis and the millions in government funding grants they were fraudulently receiving for over a decade. In the video, the two men did not make the corruption into a republican or democrat issue.
I think there is a knee-jerk reaction in the US mainstream media that automatically twists an issue into a black and white argument pitting democrats and republicans against each other. It just obscures the actual problem.
The irony is that the corrupt Somalis are taking advantage of the political hotbed of division.
Instead of working together to stop fraud and investigate the Somali-run operations, the mainstream media is sensationalising divisions between the political right and left. And it’s telling that the mainstream media is being exploited by at least two very wealthy and well-known Republicans.
It is almost like a narcissist having the two romantic parties fighting one another rather than the narcissist…..
WN,
“The irony is that the corrupt Somalis are taking advantage of the political hotbed of division.”
The corrupt Somalis who have been and are being allowed to play out their corruption by Democrat players in MN government, some Somali and some not. The Republicans in MN have been the ones finding, investigating and hopefully bringing enough evidence for prosecution regarding the corruption. All fingers are starting to point directly back to Walz, Ellison, Omar at the top, with many lesser knowns below them, many of whom are Somalian. Whichever side I’ve personally voted on makes no difference, I’m glad this corruption is being uncovered and I don’t care who’s uncovering it. There are too many in MN struggling to pay basic living expenses because we are taxes over the top, and to learn that it’s been given to a foreign and/or illegally here people group, that’s a whole nother story, as it seems to have been, to the tune of up to 18 BILLION dollars last estimate I have heard, I’m furious. I hope they’re all locked up and have to work the rest of their pitiful lives to repay the people of my beautiful state.
Okay end of rant. Just know, it’s bad here, we had a surplus when Walz was elected, now we are far in the hole. Someone needs to do something to stop the bleed, and fast.
Dear WN and A Victor,
Many thanks to you both for your insightful added information. I have seen a couple of Nick Shirley interviews and I’m glad he has unleashed this corruption. I agree, every little thing is being tainted with a political agenda, I believe to create more division amongst the masses, which is part of this big game play. I saw Welz being interrogated by a chap on a committee and Welz acted so dumb and in denial……of course he did haha
What I find fascinating is, it’s been reported the Somalians have an average IQ of 67/68.
I wish I was that smart haha 😜
Please AV, rant as much as you wish, all this corruption needs to be exposed along with all these corrupt narcissistic political players.
Your hard working tax dollars are being handed to “these people and some” on a silver platter with servants wearing white gloves !
Australian people are being taxed to the hilt as well, along with being priced out of buying a house. The same is happening all over the west. There is definitely “dirty work at the crossroads” on a grandiose scale. If you’re an illegal, it’s all free !!!!!
It has, is and will always be about money, power and most importantly …… control !!!!!
Ps
I saw Mamdani’s inaugural speech (almost like a Presidential speech, heaven forbid) and have taken note of some of his newly appointed, questionable team players. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
To me, Mamdani comes across as “waaaaaaaaay tooooooo nice”, but so do all narcissists !
🎼So long, farewell, Auf Weidersehen goodbye, New York New York, you will soon begin to cry 🎼
Hi AV,
You’re totally justified in saying what you have said. Your rant is understandable.
I didn’t realise you are in Minnesota. If I lived in Minnesota, I would be furious too. I’m in disbelief and angry about the fraud exposed by Nick Shirley and I’m on the other side of the world.
I can’t believe that the fraud committed by mainly Somali immigrants has been allowed to happen. Where are the public regulators? Where are the auditors and accountants who work for the funding bodies? And where are the regulatory checks and balances in place before grant funding is approved and paid?
It’s glaringly obvious that nobody in the video who was questioned about their ‘daycare centre’ or ‘healthcare centre’ is a qualified childcare operator or doctor or nurse. How can a ‘business’ be incorporated and move in to the same address as multiple other similar businesses with no questions asked?
The lack of oversight and regulation in the Minnesota fraudulent activity is mind-boggling.
It’s like highway robbery allowed to happen in full sight of the whole community and everyone just walks by.
Hi again AV,
Before learning of the Minnesota frauds exposed by Nick Shirley, I did not know anything about Walz, Omar and Ellison in relation to Minnesota’s government.
After reading a few articles about Ilhan Omar and also her husband, Tim Mynett, it hasn’t taken long to get an idea of what she is …
Back in April, 2019, Omar was investigated over alleged campaign finance violations.
At the time, three allegations were made by Minnesotan state representative Steve Drazkowski. He claimed Omar had improperly accepted a speaking fee. He also alleged that Omar had used $6,000 in campaign funds for a private divorce lawyer and for private trips to Estonia and Massachusetts.
Drazkowski stated to the Sinclair media group that: “I had observed a long pattern. Representative Omar hasn’t followed the law. She’s repeatedly trampled on the laws of the state in a variety of areas, and gotten by with it.”
Other allegations claimed by Drazkowski relate to controversies surrounding Omar’s marriages.
(Of course, republican candidates are just as capable of trampling on laws and getting away with it, though.)
Despite the allegations at the time, Omar was elected as State Representative of the 5th congressional district.
It would be very interesting if HG placed Ilhan Omar under the Tudorscope.
Hi HG,
It does appear that way. It seems they sensationalise headlines for the drama. The ‘news’ becomes like a daily political mudslinging contest.
Hi Bubbles,
I’m really glad as well that Nick Shirley has exposed the corruption in Minnesota that is mainly perpetrated by Somali immigrants.
I have watched another one of his videos about the rise of Islam in Minnesota and it was confronting.
I would like to know, though, what will happen when the taxpayer dollars run out?
I don’t want to make this an argument between ‘Christians’ and ‘Muslims’ because I don’t think that all people in Minnesota are religious or adhere to religious beliefs.
Instead, I’ll frame it in terms of ‘Western’ customs and ‘Muslim’ customs.
When the taxpayer dollars run out because Western customs are declining, what will happen then? Who will run legitimate businesses, manufacturing, innovation, technology, education, medical facilities, transportation, policing, first responder services, entertainment and sporting facilities, local council services like water treatment, waste collection, city planning, environmental policies, etc etc?
What a debacle.
WN,
I was a little surprised that you were able to find anything like that about Omar but I am glad. She’s been under investigation here for years. I would love to hear what HG would say about her but I think there might not be enough interest to make it worth his time.
Hi AV,
After reading a few articles about Omar and her husband’s business as well, there are certainly some big red flags there.
Dearest WN,
“It’s the rise of radical Islam, they want world domination.
“Infiltrate, populate, dominate and never assimilate, then create a caliphate, then bring upon Sharia Law and they do it by using our laws. Immigration without assimilation is an invasion.”
Their phases are, eradicate
First the Saturday people (Jews)
Then the Sunday people (Christians)
Then the infidels and non-muslims
Praying in the streets is showing their dominance btw
The only way the west will rid this evil is by deporting.
Ilhan Omar and her husband are two bad eggs from my perspective. There appears to be various lawsuits going on with financial fraud claims, not very being transparent and dubious business ethics. Why am I not surprised haha ?
Hi Bubbles,
The effects of radical Islam, (and any radical religion) just degrades peaceful and collaborative living, in my view.
I’m not sure about you, but the extreme heatwave in Australia last week and its effects have had a way of putting things into perspective.
As you know, there have been daily weather forecasts and warnings; news and announcements about dangerous conditions and total fire bans; news about fires and the effects of the fires; and news about the experiences of many people affected by the fires, including firefighters, local residents in fire-affected towns; those who have lost their livelihoods, farms and livestock; people who have lost everything.
Today on the news, there was a 73yo man who ran a business in a rural community. He lost everything and was left with just the clothes he was wearing. He said the fire was so ferocious that it burned down his shed and melted all his tools. He said he would have to get a new set of tires for a car he could access in order to simply get around and begin repairs to his property. He said it’s a case of starting again from scratch and he’s 73. He doesn’t even have a screwdriver, so even the simplest of repairs are rendered impossible.
I watched this particular man being interviewed on the news and his experience is like that of countless others who lost everything because of fires over the past week. Farms and vineyards are destroyed; livestock, cows and sheep are killed or stranded; while people are shell-shocked and exhausted, running on adrenaline. It’s terrible.
Directly after this interview, the next news story was about a religious conflict somewhere in the middle-east. There was a political ‘expert’ talking about the political ramifications of what one side had done to the other which was the fallout of what the original side had done first, etc etc etc.
After watching an elderly man talk about losing everything because of an environmental disaster and then listening to the religious back and forth of this ‘expert,’ it made me wonder how those who are radically religious would handle major environmental disasters?
Most Australians are not religious and generally live together peacefully. Those in small communities affected by disasters coordinate and collaborate to help each other. They volunteer to fight fires and rescue those stranded or vulnerable. They do whatever they can to keep stores, supermarkets, cafes and fuel stations open to provide supplies. Or they gather at shelters to provide food, water, a roof, other necessities, or even just moral support to each other.
When you see the effects of extreme weather conditions and what people go through after disasters like fires, floods, cyclones, etc, it brings things down to earth in a major way. The idea of being radically religious just seems futile – it’s ridiculous and stupid.
There’s no point to it and it just creates more havoc and hardship.
Sorry, Bubbles, for my rant. I don’t need to explain it to you because you already know.
Dearest WN,
I’m trying (haha) to keep abreast with what’s happening lovely WN. I’m trying to connect most of the dots and nothing really makes “common sense” anymore. The end doesn’t seem to justify the means.
I wonder just how much money has passed hands !?!?!?
Theo, the 73 yr old farmer, is also a CFA volunteer.
I’m also concerned with the use of chemtrails, the fire brigade say it’s hotter than normal and they have attributed the fires, these days, to fire accelerants. Not suss much ! ?
Thankfully, the support of accommodation, clothes etc to those affected have been enormous….it’s what Aussies do right !?
Sadly, the fires are only a temporary distraction to radical Islam, which, I might add, is not going away despite our Fabian Society treasonous narcissist Muslim vote seeking, Jew hating weasel PM (and all his lieutenants). Thank goodness his Hate Speech Bill has been binned ….for now.
Now watch this insidious narc come up with new strategies.
Anyhoo, huge cudos and awards to Nick Shirley, what a brave young lad. He’s petrified of being another Charlie Kirk victim with all the hate he’s been getting.
I’m thinking of “leather bookmarking” (haha) for the Invictus Games, only if I can get the top 4 floors of the Hyatt and my own security guards with bullet proof glass, seeing as Birmingham is now considered dangerous.
Mr Tudor, I hear from Lady C (and it’s in her book at the end she’s mentioned) when Thomas Markle dies, TOW may say he “molested” her and that’s why she had nothing to do with him.
What say you Mr Tudor ?
Already addressed this in videos.
Dear Mr Tudor,
I’m trying to keep afloat with your videos on my daily walk, however, which video did I miss, if you’d be so kind ?
With most gracious thanks ☺️
Hi Bubbles,
There’s a lot of news about many difficult and dire situations around the world at the moment.
I watch or read about the news each day because it interests me, and then sometimes I think that news reports also contributing to the general level of anxiety and unrest in society as well. It’s a self-perpetuating loop.
I’m wondering what you have heard about ‘chemtrails’?
When I’ve listened to reports about recent fires in Australia, the mention of ‘fire accelerants’ relates to the natural environment and the ‘fuel’ that exists in bushland such as long, dry grasses, dry shrubs, and accumulated leaf litter, bark, twigs and dried vegetation. Another factor is the volatile eucalyptus oil in the leaves of Australia’s native eucalyptus trees. This oil makes the trees highly flammable in a fire.
For example, anyone with a eucalyptus tree (or gum tree) in their garden would know that fallen leaves don’t decompose quickly or thoroughly. They take a long time to rot, becoming very dry, crisp and hardened over a period of time instead.
Aboriginal Australians who lived on the land for centuries had a custom of controlled back-burning of segments of bushland at regular intervals. This method controlled the amount of the natural ‘fuel’ or ‘dry fuel load’ that accumulated over time. By conducting controlled fires like this, they reduced the likelihood and prevalence of wild bushfires during extreme weather.
Personally, I haven’t heard anything about deliberate ‘chemtrails’ in Australia, unless of course a fire is caused by individuals in cases of arson which is rare overall. The vast majority of bushfires are naturally occurring due to the effects of extreme heat and wind conditions.
In the last few days, I’ve heard reports about the way recent fires have been very difficult to control and contain. The natural weather conditions are becoming worse due to climate change. This has meant that temperatures are more extreme; a decrease in rain has caused the bushland to be drier and more flammable; and unpredictable wind conditions have caused the fires to move more quickly and in all directions.
The reports I’ve heard have discussed the need to study and modify the ways fires should be fought in order to contain them more effectively in the near future. This is due to the need to adapt to changing, more extreme, and more difficult weather conditions.
The reports I’ve listened to have been based on natural environmental conditions only.
It sounds to me like you may be basing your opinions on conspiracy theories, Bubbles.
Dear WN,
Many thanks for your most informative reply WN
I totally agree with the gum trees, we live in a bush fire zone and as we speak I’m looking out my dining window at gum trees. If anyone breathes too heavy a branch snaps, they’re so dry. When we see bushfires in the hills near us, we do get a tad concerned.
“I’m wondering what you’ve heard about chemtrails?”
I’ve “read” it’s all conspiracy theories …. I don’t believe that for one second haha just look at the emissions from our planes.
In this “chemically laden” world today, anything is feasible.
“Cloud seeding” (artificial rain) has been in effect in Australia since 1947 and they use silver iodide (agl). “They”, say studies show low harmful effects to humans, however, it’s still considered toxic to aquatic life, whilst long term effects are still debatable.
One of my characteristic traits WN, is, I don’t trust people and from my perspective there are more wolves in sheep’s clothing than ever before.
Always a pleasure lovely
Hi again HG and Bubbles,
By the way, I want to be clear that I am not defending Somalis by saying this.
Australia has its own issues with Somali immigrants.
In the viral video by Nick Shirley, the Somalis he questioned played dumb, as though they were born yesterday and couldn’t understand plain English. Meanwhile, they’re blatantly and brazenly defrauding US government funding.
In Australia, there are Somali men who have multiple wives and then have numerous children with each wife – and they are more than capable of understanding how Australia’s welfare system works. They exploit welfare to obtain unemployment and medical benefits while continuing to have upwards of five or six children per wife.
Meanwhile, their children are known to run rampant and join gangs. These gangs have teens wielding machete knives. Sometimes they fight each other with machete knives in shopping centres in broad daylight.
In recent years, there have been terrifying home invasions at night where groups of teens break into people’s homes while the home-owners are sleeping. They steal cars and other items as they terrorise home-owners.
… and this kind of activity is largely funded by the Australian taxpayer.
Just saying that you’re not alone in your comments and perceptions.
I think that making it a political ‘left/right’ issue doesn’t address the actual problem.
Personally, I have worked and paid taxes since I was a teenager. I paid my own way through University and worked hard to pay mortgages and earn for the things I have – all while paying taxes.
Throughout my life, each elected government – regardless of political party – has been like a parasite. The bills and taxes have kept landing in my letterbox. The more that average working people work hard to avoid having to claim any kind of welfare, the more they get punished for it.
All governments need to wake up.
Dearest WN,
Could not agree more, well said lovely
Happy New Year everyone!
2025 has been good fun, and I am looking forward to a narc free 2026.
Special thanks to you, HG, for all your efforts. You make it much easier for all of us to understand and navigate narc waters.
Lots of love to everyone.
PS: I have read your comments, they have been very interesting! I will answer as soon as I find the time!
Thank you.
Happy New Year HG and to everyone on the blog! Xx❤️❤️
I wasn’t aware you’d moved to Sydney?
Rebecca’s bunked in with Wiser Now, Bubbles and I. We’re already in tomorrow. You’ll never catch us.
Already have.
You live in my world.
Dear HG,
You know I arrive early to everything, even my birth! 😄
It’s those fast skates I got for Christmas! 😄
I convinced Santa I was good this year, a little extra cookies made it happen! 😄xx
Hi Annaamel! Xx😄
Dear HG,
My fast skates are keeping me just out of reach! 😄xx
Dear annaamel,
Wouldn’t that be a hoot ? Hehe
Happy New Year Rebecca! X
Happy New Year, Contagious! Xx
Happy New Year, to you HG.
Thank you.
Happy New Year, HG! Xx
Thank you.
Hi HG:
I sent you a Netflix documentary on Ruby Franke and Jody hildebrant ( suspended psychologist and life coach). LDS in Utah. They were like a cult with 2.4 million followers and 1 billion views. Bishops referred men for porn addiction ( defined as watching it once a year by Jody). They seemed to believe they were living prophets or separated and destroyed families and were arrested for child abuse. Jody’s police interviewers are astonishing. She talks of empathy, she seems logical and authentic. But the proof is in the pudding. What they did to children… cruelty, malnutrition, isolation, tying them up, duct tape. Emotional abuse. Her blog starts “ I love children. I love your children.” It’s frightening and sickening. It would be a great YouTube series. Happy New Years and thank you for your work!
Contagious,
Just in case you missed it at the time, here is the link to the video HG created about them, titled “Ruby Franke & Jodi Hildebrandt : Narcissists”
Thank you for posting this, AP! I didn’t see this either!
Hi HG, I just relistened to the smirk video. I feel like it sunk in properly this time. The explanation about how our ET works in this scenario is really helpful too. It reminded me of watching people on coke.. they’d get that look. I’m guessing there’s similarities?
Or you’ve observed a coke using narcissist.
God you’re good HG! 🫨 Yup. He’s one of my major “suspects”.
Dear Jade,
What “smirk” video might that be please ?
Many thanks
Here you go Bubbles!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akKoE-ydP28
I’m joining you all in Sydney btw. I lived there in my twenties and still miss it. Especially when it’s winter here 🏖️
Dear Jade,
Kind thanks lovely for the link you were referring to, I’ve just finished listening to it. Refreshers are a must to keep one on one’s toes at all times. A “smirk” can go unnoticed in a nano second eg Erika Kirk, TOW
Haha that would be great, the more the merrier. How exciting you lived here in your twenties (working holiday)? Aussies are a pretty chilled layback lot and heaps of fun.
Opposite seasons are definitely interesting hehe
Thank you again and my very best wishes for 2026 lovely
WhoCares
https://narcsite.com/2015/09/29/questioning-me/comment-page-26/#comment-467797
regarding your last paragraph, I agree and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Some people can ‘see’ the ‘hurt’ in others yet do not rein it in, no matter the placing they sit on the narcissism to empath spectrum. I ‘see’ the consistency in your support towards those that you offer your support to. Some people can be too ‘selective’ in that regard, so, to me, it also lacks consistency. Have a good New Year xx
Asp Amp,
“Some people can ‘see’ the ‘hurt’ in others yet do not rein it in, no matter the placing they sit on the narcissism to empath spectrum.”
Disheartening, but accurate.
I appreciate your comment. Have a Happy New Year too, Asp Amp. 💜
I think that’s the not I find hard to understand. 🤔
Hi Truthseeker!
I’m having scrolling trouble, so I am moving our conversation to a fresh thread.
“Using Saviour as an example. Years ago Saviour would activate and I would fly into the fray. It was a reactive response, just something I did…” You’ve said that you’re a saviour empath. Do you think that flying into the fray had to do more with being an unaware majority saviour? I would guess that majority carrier would grab up the burden or a martyr would go to any length to address the need. A majority geyser is going to fountain with fuel. A magnet will ? (genuinely, I don’t quite know because Mr. Tudor says that they are not as quick to take an action as other empaths)
“I don’t see any school, cadre or trait as a particular weakness in and of itself. I just think having an awareness of the trait in play means that it might perhaps be used in a more considered way.” — That makes sense. I know that some get used, but I don’t mind. It doesn’t bother me the vast majority of the time. It doesn’t get me into trouble the vast majority of the time.
“I’m afraid I run cold. Likely because Geyser is absent in me…what I do say is targeted and it’s delivered calmly.” — That’s interesting. It’s quite different from me. I am very non-reactive to any source of strong anger. I don’t realize that I am angry or hurt often for a while. But you are reacting in the moment. I will react alone or explain with high expression if a friend asks. But the person who hurt me…they rarely find out. If they know what hurts you, they won’t stop. I think that is something that freaks me out about people like Mr. Tudor. I mean him as the Ultra and Greaters. He has shared the stories. I believe them. My likely friendship level ensnarement (No NDC, so I call it likely) was not like what Mr. Tudor describes doing; the probable narc liked to say she was like that while also saying she was a victim of people doing the same to her. I’ve compared the quality of the two before. Mr. Tudor is Opera Torte (a complex dessert with many elements and a flavor that is reliant on the ingredient quality–he is top tier). The former friend has the quality of a fast food cookie or a Twinkie, particularly by way of comparison.
“…how effective my cold anger is would depend on my position in the fuel matrix, length of exposure, number of occurrences, plus duration of time spent with that particular narcissist. I also think school and to a lesser extent cadre of narcissist would have a lot of bearing on how ‘effective’ I am in that situation.” — that makes sense.
“Do you think the traits that you find more difficult to spot in yourself are traits that you feel were most responsible for your past ensnarements? Are they perhaps traits that led to behaviours you feel embarrassed by or that you perceive as weaknesses maybe?” — I am going to think on these. I may need a few days. But I will hopefully have my thoughts together by this weekend…possibly this evening.
Hi Dani,
New thread, thank goodness!
I think flying into the fray more often was likely due to unawareness yes, in part. Less requirement for Saviour as of late. I also think it had something to do with the fact that for some reason, I feel ‘stronger’ than most, somehow better placed to deal with the shit storm. I’m stubborn and not particularly fearful so my assumption is always that I’ll be ok. I’ve done some dumbass stuff in my time, like going to collect my boyfriend’s best friend, mid brawl on a dance floor. I can see him now, red faced, hair all mussed up, buttons missing off his shirt. They all just kind of stopped mid swing, haha! To be fair, I’d likely still do that today but in other circumstances I’m likely to be more considered before getting involved. I actually think the friend was an Upper Lesser A Twinkie!
In terms of Magnet, I think they would try to talk, charm and humour their way out of situations.
That’s very interesting that you lock down in the face of anger so as not to show that you are hurt. I think that’s very sensible. It’s similar to how I was with my mum as a kid, I would say nothing and look through her. More to do with stubbornness and not giving her what I sensed she wanted, rather than concealing the fact I was hurt. I wasn’t hurt for the most part, I didn’t really feel too much at all, I was more like an observer than a participant I think. I do see the logic there Dani, I wonder if pride is driving that response. Fear maybe?
No rush on the questions, no need to reply if you don’t feel comfortable, just something that sprang to mind when reading your previous comment.
Xx
Hi Dani and TS, just to join here to say I’m a lock downer in the face of hurt too. Mix of nature and nurture I’m sure but also I think we learn that it’s better not to show what hurts, or “they’ll” just continue to use it 🤔
Hi Jade,
I believe HG has said that it is not possible for us to hide our reactions from narcissists. Though possibly he was only referring to himself. There have been discussions here and there on the blog about minor facial and voice changes that narcissists seem to be particularly tuned in to. And they also often know how we will respond ahead of time anyway, though I think their fuel comes from seeing it in action.
A long time ago I decided that I won’t allow myself to be concerned with giving them fuel, as disgusting as it feels when I know it’s happening. But instead, if it happens, I’ve learned how to get out of situations and away from the narc as quickly as possible.
It is one reason that I sometimes find interviews difficult to listen to. Much as I love HG for what he’s done for me, and I also understand where the empath is coming from, when I see/hear a massive fuel dump, it still makes me queasy. I really miss Doug, though there was fuel there, it wasn’t dumped in the same way, possibly because he was a straight man. Those were some great interviews.
When people know that they’re doing this, as bloggers often do, it does not affect me the same way. Then it is a choice, one that I have made at times also.
Good point AV. I recall reading that here too, I think all narcs as well. I think we adjust when younger hoping it will help in situations with narcs but as HG says, ultimately it doesn’t.
Yes, your approach is wise. I knew I’d be giving my mum fuel when I met her a few months ago, but I kept it as short as I could. I had a few buffer people but think more is needed in future too! We live and learn.
It’s interesting what you said about “fuel dumps” I haven’t noticed that but can understand why you’d feel uncomfortable. I’ll keep an eye out.
DOH I forgot my new name! 🤦♀️
Hi AV,
I agree that we can’t completely hide our reactions. Certainly not when we’re physically present with the narcissist. But there are situations that can reduce the ability fuel…
Talking on the phone instead of in person…etc.
I am sure I have facial responses and other responses that can’t be turned off. But I can say nothing or pretend to not notice how horrible they are confessing that they devalued me when they are confessing over the phone…
Hi AV,
I feel very similar about fuel. I’m unconcerned about giving fuel. It is what is. Every interaction gives them fuel. I look at it as a transaction. I have the interaction, give then fuel and then keep it moving.
Hi Dani, I agree, we can probably minimize.
My mom tried to get fuel over text, my preferred way to correspond with people, once. I was out having fun with one of my kids, she knew we were, she sent a panic text about her taxes. It pissed me off enough that I didn’t respond and blocked her for the rest of the night. She could’ve chosen to speak with me in person about it at any point. If she got fuel over it, who knows, I think just the thought that she was stepping into my time with my child, that she was getting a little of the time, counts as thought fuel. But, that’s better than had I responded with the way it made me feel in the moment. I have blocked her on occasion since when I’m out for fun. There are other people who can reach me if I need to know something about her. Anyway, I agree it’s possible to minimize what they get.
I always have to think through why it makes me queasy that they’re getting fuel from me. For me, it feels like a violation, even before I knew about narcissism, it was an icky feeling. And it is them taking something without consent, it’s a boundary transgression. It also isn’t a fair exchange, they take without giving something in return. Now that I understand why it bothered me, it’s been easier to not feel that way when it happens, they’re not actually taking anything and now it is often with consent, so it doesn’t bother me the same way, as long as I keep it limited to my limit, not theirs. Preferable to have NC but not always possible.
Yes, Leigh, that’s how I view it mostly now also. It makes my life less stressful.
Happy New Year, Truthseeker!
I think the cadres that I recognize and like are the ones that got me into trouble with the narc/toxic friend. I was also in a very vulnerable place when I met this person.
I don’t know what drives the conceal response in particular. I think part of the time I may be so shocked by what I am hearing that I don’t know how to react.
Tangentially related…I was thinking about the lady from one of the 100,000 Interviews series. She said she was a four way split between all empath schools and a five way split between all cadres. I have been thinking about what Rebecca said…about retaking the EDC several times because she felt a change in herself. When there are more schools and cadres, is the change less noticeable than when there are fewer? Someone like that one lady (to me) seems to have many more answers that are equally likely…assuming a roughly equal split as she communicated. If she felt a change and retook the test…would her changed answers have a greater possibility of cancelling each other out than say a 50/50 Super/CoD with 33/33/34 Carrier/Saviour/Geyser? If the 50/50 person gets out and stays out of a situation causing ET and driving CoD Geyser responses…what happens?
Any thoughts? (I may think of more later today to add…)
Happy New Year Dani!
“I think the cadres that I recognize and like are the ones that got me into trouble with the narc/toxic friend. I was also in a very vulnerable place when I met this person.”
I can understand your frustration if that is the case. I remember my friend being similarly frustrated by his own empathic traits to start with. He blamed his own empathy for getting him ensnared. This is true in part, our empathic traits are what make us attractive to narcissists but remember, it isn’t the traits that are the problem, it’s the narcissist’s exploitation of those traits.
The fact that you were in a vulnerable place when you met this person, speaks volumes I think. I was similarly vulnerable when I began interacting with online narc. He did me the most damage, likely because I was in that vulnerable place. A prize fighter doesn’t fight when he has flu. There’s a reason for that! I do think we can sometimes underestimate how painful NISS ensnarement can be. Trust is the issue there, we feel that we should be able to trust our friends in a different way to trusting a romantic partner. It’s a different ensnarement that does a different kind of damage.
I think I know the lady you are referring to. She’s lovely. Difficult to say, I have pondered this myself as I was so very low and full of ET when I took the EDC. I suspect that if the lady you mention retook the test she would still have representation in all of the same schools and cadres but there might be slight percentage shifts for each one. So she might not be a perfect quad for example but she would still show all four schools and all 5 cadres.
I don’t know if shifts would be more pronounced in those with fewer schools and cadres. Or, if someone with three schools might retake and suddenly have a fourth school with a tiny percentage. Possibly. I’m tempted to say that there is a little more room for fluctuation in cadres than in schools as cadres are more to do with behavioural preference. I view schools as being rooted in traits and survival mechanisms, so to my mind more fixed than the cadres. I don’t know, that’s just my interpretation.
I pondered retaking and decided against. I think weaponisation has the greatest impact in terms of positive outcomes. I’m less concerned (but still interested) in my schools and cadres now and more focussed on strengthening my own weaponisation. My thinking there is that my schools and cadres are what they are. My empathic nature does not pose me a problem provided that my weaponisation is as upgraded as it can be. For me, my focus lies there. What impact that weaponisation has on schools and cadres is secondary to me as in short, I’m an empath, always will be an empath, I don’t really mind what schools and cadres I belong to.
I can see though that it would be interesting to see what impact weaponisation has on our empathic breakdown.
Dani and TS, a very interesting thread. I also feel like I’m completely different now, although sometimes – in various situations – that idiot in me still unknowingly comes out (I can’t stand her and have little patience for women who courting, serving and groveling towards men with a known profile). It’s as if I’m operating in parallel, on two lines. Sometimes the nice, smiling, compassionate side comes out, but at the same time the critic kicks in, pointing out facts, situations, and events, and I withdraw. It might seem strange that I first “hug someone to my heart” and then five minutes later treat them like air – but ultimately, I don’t care what people think who show up unwanted or get too close.
I love the company of people, with whom I can relax almost completely, talk about anything and everything, give and take in the relationship – without fear of what will be expected in return, be myself, be understood, without any pressure, without second thoughts process about what’s between the lines.
I’m now burning with curiosity to see, what the empathy detector results would be, after a few years 😀 I’d be disappointed if it came out exactly the same, ha ha ha 😀 Although some of my answers would certainly be different – we learn and we age. Perhaps I’ll follow in Rebecca’s footsteps due to my curiosity – myself (pathetic) – but who doesn’t love testing? 🙂
Hi Joa, I agree with what you wrote in your second paragraph.
Hi,
You know what I thought when I read your comment? How much lighter you feel to me, I have you set against a white background in my mind, not because you are an innocent (haha) but because you feel lighter, floaty, kind of.
Whatever has changed, whatever you are doing, keep doing it! I think that’s great, you acknowledge the pull of old habits and move away from them.
This might be the calm that comes from a job well done. The confidence of knowing your daughter is well raised and is capable of standing alone. I imagine that is a huge relief and comfort to you. I worry for my kids more than anything else, they occupy a huge amount of space in my mind. I wonder what will happen to that space when I no longer need to worry in the same way.
Hopefully, I’ll feel lighter, feel a bit floaty and stand against a lot of white walls!
Maybe the operating in parallel is your logical thinking standing beside your emotional thinking? If your logical thinking is now being heard then I think this would perhaps translate to me as ‘calm’ or ‘light’.
Either way, whatever it is, you sound great !
Xx
This is quite an interesting conversation re: changes.
Our thoughts patterns are likely to change over time given the information we have learned here, but I had not given thought to how it may affect the percentages of our empathic makeup.
HG
Do you think taking the Empath and Trait detectors again after a significant length of time here would be beneficial to understanding how weaponization has affected us, or would we likely experience only minimal shifts in percentages?
It is beneficial to undertake them after a passage of time. For many, the changes will be minimal which demonstrates that notwithstanding what has occurred to an individual both in terms of their ensnarement and subsequent weaponisation, their core remained largely similar. In some instances however, substantial changes can be evidence which invariably demonstrates that the period of turbulence had a dramatic impact on the individual concerned and revisiting results when that turbulence has lessened or been eradicated provides insight into the changes that have resulted.
Hi Truthseeker,
Part of it for me isn’t blaming my traits for getting me ensnared…it’s feeling like I must have failed at directions…when others who have shared say that they have 1 or 2 answers they would change and my number is so much higher than that…I must conclude a fault somewhere… And it’s not with the detector…it’s with the test taker. Then there is what I did readily identify…I have a gut feeling about what happens with part…and then the mystery…it all leaves me in a place of not sure what to do…because reasons. I got to the point where I felt like I was never going to submit or find out because of me…and after more than a year with results…I feel like I am still sat on my log, tapping my head and thinking.
I think NISS gets dismissed more easily. I also strongly suspect that I have intermittently served as NIPS…whilst the friend flitted between two-three and zero boyfriends… And blamed me a few times for breakups (generally in a strange positive/negative hybrid). E.g. “I broke up with him because your intuition is always good even when you’re being paranoid.” Alternating between the two really makes sense to me…it fits all the information I understand about both from Mr. Tudor…
Have you taken the weaponized empath detector?
HG
Thank you. I very much appreciate your detailed response.
You’re welcome NA.
Hi Dani,
I understand now, thank you for clarifying. I don’t think it’s ‘user error’ I do think that for some people, (myself included) selecting the most natural response, or the response that you gravitate towards first isn’t quite so straightforward as it sounds. There’s an element of perfectionism involved, not because we want to select the ‘right’ or ‘most acceptable’ answer but because we are dead set on selecting the most truthful answer. I remember thinking “Well, it depends” an awful lot when completing the test. “In some scenarios I might react this way but in others I’d react that way.” I struggle to take a question on ‘face value’ because there are so many moving parts for me in any scenario.
I remember looking at the test a year or so after, maybe a touch longer and thinking that I wouldn’t answer much differently, but I haven’t looked at it recently.
The funny thing is, I’m not all that curious to know how I’ve changed. I’m at ease now when I wasn’t then. That’s more important to me I think. I feel better ‘equipped’ to deal with life in general, including narcs that saunter over in my direction. That weaponisation holds more value and makes more difference to my quality of life than anything else. I can certainly understand people being curious and maybe viewing changes as ‘progress’ in amending behaviours they feel make them vulnerable. I get that, I think perhaps I’ve just reached a point where maybe I don’t see myself as the problem anymore. Or I care less about what people think of me. Or I’m getting old! Who knows? Each to her own.
Crap, I’ll be wearing sensible shoes soon. Brooches.
Yes I took the WED quite early too. I know I’ve definitely changed there. Again, I’m confident I have become more weaponised. The trick there is to keep up to date with all of the material, which I fully intend to do.
It is mind blowing to think how we can occupy various positions in the fuel matrix during the course of ensnarement isn’t it? And often those positions aren’t based on us but on other shifts elsewhere in the matrix. I don’t think I’ve seen any other ‘narc expert’ explain that.
Great question NA, and very interesting response from HG.
Truthseeker,
You seem to have arrived in a very healthy place. I’m glad to hear that. You got me thinking…
How does the place an empath starts from directly impact the travel time and destination? We aren’t all starting from the same place as we look at the Tower of the Knowledge Vault. How does an empath’s vantage point being a rocky out cropping or standing in a frazil filled river or finding their way there by traveling through a carnival house of mirrors impact them? Some may be bloodied from their climb to the rocky ledge and some may be freezing and wet…some may be looking at a hundred versions of a reflection…none particularly flattering.
I have been warned about thinking. Hope all is well for you.
Hi Dani,
That’s the million dollar question right there!
You’re right, we arrive here from a whole range of different life experiences, ensnarements and empathic personality profiles. I’ve read stories here over the years that comparatively have made my own experiences pale into insignificance.
I joined around the same time as another lady, the one I think you referred to in your previous comment. Her story was ‘worse’ than mine. Her progress was also far faster than mine. I remember her telling me that she had reached Zero Impact. I was absolutely elated for her, because she really is a warrior, an amazing person, she truly deserved to feel better. At the same time though, I was still plagued with that horrible sadness that ached into my bones. I told her that I thought I might need to accept the fact that I was always going to ache that way, I might never reach Zero Impact. She told me that I might not. Maybe Zero Impact is different for everyone and my recovery will be personal to me.
What she did there was take the pressure off. She removed expectation of what I should feel and by when. It was the very best thing anyone could have said to me. Honestly, I think I was trying too hard. I was trying to force myself to Zero Impact. It’s a bit like trying to remember a name. You think and think and it won’t come to you. Stop thinking so hard and it suddenly pops into your head.
There’s no set timescale for recovery. It takes as long as it takes. Comparing our path to anyone else’s is pointless, we are all different people with different ensnarements, life experiences, strengths and weaknesses.
Accept that, remove any recovery target you might have in your head and instead just trust the process will get you to where you need to be in time for when you need to be there. You can relax then, you’re on the right path heading in the right direction, so just take your time, read, listen, reflect and put one foot in front of the other.
Sometimes, analysing every detail, reviewing past events from one angle then the other, can keep us stuck in the past, with all of those emotions that go with it. We all want to understand what happened and why, but spending too long in the past can sometimes delay the moving forward part. Sometimes the “because they were a narc,” might have to be enough, or at least in part.
Recovery really is a process. It evolves. I was recovered years ago, I’m more recovered now. Maybe I’ll be still more recovered two years from now. If you look at it like that, you’re always exactly where you should be in the process.
Things I always try to be aware of.
Cross pollution. It’s a massive deal and it keeps ET higher than it needs to be. Flush out any narcs you can, limit contact with those you can’t.
ET fluctuation. Stay out of the past, try to stop revisiting and look forward instead. Yes, at the start we need our answers, but beyond that, let the past go, you are not the person now that you were then.
Understand yourself, your empathic schools, cadres and traits but remember you are not totally beholden to them either. That information was originally provided to help us avoid further ensnarement. We should use it in the way intended, never as a stick to beat ourselves with.
If in doubt, don’t be too proud to return to the expert. Use the NDC, that’s what it’s there for.
Hope that helps Dani. Xx
Dearest truth,
You should see my collection of sensible shoes, brooches, pearl necklaces, reading glasses, cardigans, slacks, button-down shirts, mid-length skirts, blouses, jackets, along with my scarves, hats and most importantly, my watch 👵🏻😂
Hi Bubbles x
You know what I thought after I sent that?
“Cue Bubbles, stage right.”
Haha! Sure enough, here you are!
And
Oh God, it’s worse than I imagined! 😂🤪😘
Xx
Hi Truthseeker,
I agree with some of what you said. I disagree with some.
I think comparing and weighing our journey against another individual is pointless.
I think understanding the broad pattern of each school, cadre, traits could be very helpful. Sometimes it’s difficult for us to see that falling into thorny brush/stinging nettles is common. I think knowing broad travel routes…what type of MR Hoover worked the most effectively against 100 super empaths who had been out two-four months to draw them back in? Is there a pattern to what caused these 50 contagions to select a new narcissist after nine months of no contact with the previous? What should we watch for most, based on a specific majority school make-up if there are broad patterns within each school that cause variation in future ensnarements? Considering that each empathic makeup has a narc school most drawn to them…It seems like broad patterns exist. Are we all likely to miss a greater narcissist? Unless Mr. Tudor has named them…yes. Good news…they are few in number. We are much more at risk from MRN and Lessers.
I think understanding that a particular pitfall is more common for our makeup can help us spot the trap more quickly than Admiral Ackbar did.
Hope all is well where you are.
Hi Dani,
Thank you, I am the last bastion of health in a sniffling, coughing, aching household just now. Fingers crossed I sidestep whatever it is they have!
Absolutely, in the context of what you describe, the comparing of journeys / experiences definitely is relevant. The experiences others have had with their respective narcs can only be helpful in terms of knowing what to look out for moving forward.
The pointless aspect I was referring to was the measuring of our own recovery against the recovery of others that arrive to the blog sooner, later or at the same time. In the sense of, this empath arrived at the same time as me and has reached Zero Impact. I don’t really feel any better, what am I doing wrong? I was definitely prone to that. I was putting the hours in but in terms of feeling better I was definitely a slow horse. That comparing of ‘progress’, ‘recovery’, feeling better, the nearing of Zero Impact (or not) was a mindset I had that looking back on it was ‘pointless.’ I was simply placing unnecessary pressure on myself to ‘get better’. Totally illogical.
How are you finding your new job? Are you fully trained now? I lose track of time!
Dearest truth,
Haha cute, we empaths are a predictable lot aren’t we, I happily took the bait and reacted haha
Sensible shoes are imperative for your tootsies lovely, brooches and vintage heirloom are back in fashion hehe
Check out Advanced Style by Ari Seth Cohen, that’s how my girlfriend lovelies and I dress ……aging is fun !
I’m not quite Mrs Doubtfire ……just yet 👵🏻
🤣
Hi Bubbles,
You’re right about the brooches. They are supposed to be coming back in a big way this year!
I looked up Ari Seth Cohen. She was talking about how to go grey naturally.
“ Cut your hair. I got a buzz cut. Buy three wigs, wear them for a year.”
Haha! I like her, she’s funny and to be fair, probably right on the grey hair front too!
I enjoy fashion. I think I probably always will. Good on ya girl! 😘
Xx
Bubbles, I looked up Ari Seth Cohen’s advanced style.. very cool!
Dearest truth and two,
The “Advanced Style” post, it just makes you smile. Those ladies are happy and living life to the max, that’s what it’s all about lovelies. To feel free within one’s self is so liberating….no one else can do it for you. Can’t rely on men hehe
Also, I can’t go grey just yet, my “colour palette” won’t allow it haha
I just came across ginadrewalowski on instagram, absolutely stunning with a postive confident attitude within herself and life itself. (wish I had her legs) Good on her !
When you’re happy, you just glow.
Love your comment about style, Bubbles. 🫧 So true. It’s about the inside and your outside. Its finding what’s right for you isn’t it? I now have a more visual image of you, and it matches your lovely personality. I have gone grey over your last few years and am 50 now, luckily it went “stripy” and I’m pleased with it. I definitely have grown into myself the last few years. I also get all my clothes from charity shops, it’s amazing what great, good quality things you can get at a fraction of the price. I find it helps me mix up my colours she quirkiness too as you never know what you’ll find. There’s some great parts to getting older!
Ps bubbles, I loved the style of the other lady you mentioned too.. beautiful woman. I followed Penny at frugalfashionshopper.co.uk for a while though she’s just changed her blog to more about aging generally. I love seeing inspiring, older person fashion. 💃
Dearest two,
Thank you gorgeous one, what a lovely thing to say. ☺️
I can see us both “Op” (in Australia we call it “opportunity” or thrift shopping) together! I’ve done it all my life! I go Op shopping almost every day! I just bought this divine long black sparkling sequinned designer brand skirt for our daughter’s wedding and a gorgeous dark shimmering green designer label bell sleeved blouse. I’m going to look as my daughter requested….. styled, sophisticated and elegant! Hehe
two, I would love to go grey, but alas…. if I could, I would. I bet you look stunning 🤩
Have you heard of Rebecca Robeson, American interior designer? I’ve been following her for over 15 years. She recently went grey, absolutely gorgeous ! Love love love ! I’m jealous haha
I’ve never worried about getting older, I believe in ageing gracefully, wrinkles, laugh lines n all. Each face tells a story, luckily I’m blessed with younger looking skin (must be my European heritage) hehe
To me, ageing is a blessing not a curse ! Embrace it all!
Hi Bubbles,
Agree. That post did make me smile. There was definitely a life, fun loving feel to it. An acceptance of sorts.
I’m quite a disciplined person. Diet, workouts etc. I really love the workout side, builds confidence, keeps my mood stable, maintains health and so on. I do wonder though, when I’m older, if I’ll ever just accept my changing body, greying hair etc and just go with it. I have the feeling I won’t react well to the ageing process when it kicks in proper. I admire those who do though 🙂
Oh I like that bubbles.. op shopping! Yes I go at least a few times a week too! It’s quite addictive isn’t it? We find such good bargains. I often look in the “real shops” for the look I want and just replicate it. Do you find the prices are getting a bit silly as others cotton on, though? Luckily we have a fantastic shop in our village .. I got some jeans that were £80 online for £1.
Rebecca looks stunning. You have to do you, don’t you? I dyed my hair too and liked it as well.
Yes, I’m liking aging too. I feel my personality is suited to being older lol. Plus I have quite chubby cheeks which I feel her stopped me looking wrinkly!!
Your personality sparkles through your comments so it was interesting to match your style with what I imagine! I bet you look fab!
Ps bubbles.. your wedding outfit sounds gorgeous! 💃❤️
TS, you strike me as very level headed so I imagine you’ll approach aging better than you might think. The “good bits” have surprised me!
Dear truth,
Viewing posts about women who are positive and encouraging, I believe, help boost our confidence.
They are shining examples of what we should be focusing on, particularly in recovery from narcissism.
Improving our health, mentally, physically and cleansing out toxic emotions, negative thoughts along with calming one’s own being.
I’m envious you are so disciplined. Self motivation is certainly a challenge for me at times, however, my recovery has been at a pace I can handle but at least I can say it’s very consistent. One step at a time.
All the women I’ve ever come across, are all postive in their nature and outlook, they truly do improve as they get older and they love it.
Ohhhhhhh, except my mum, she hated aging, but that’s another story. Haha
Dear two,
I’ve been op shopping all my life, that’s a pretty long time. I’m “allergic” to paying full price for anything Hehe
My girlfriends and I all op shop and compare our finds. It’s fun!
The weasel narc we once knew, started stalking me at my op shops, however, once we established what he was and went no contact, poof, he vanished! Funny how easy it is to forget someone hahaha
Thank you for your lovely compliment, that’s so sweet of you.
You’re lucky with your English shops, same with America, more interesting finds. Our country is younger and I’m into antiques and classics which we have less of.
I did go thru a “black” phase for a while …. I tried to be invisible to people……alas, it didn’t work. They talk to me regardless, must be the invisible sticker stuck to my forehead saying “please approach” haha
So, I am now a new improved version of myself.
I’m very happy with my “mother of the bride” outfit, it’s cocktail attire, so I think I’ll pass haha
Rebecca has also reinvented herself as well (after her husband left her for younger woman) ….she’s a great interior designer to boot and you should see her Christmas videos ….. OMG !!!! 🤩
Continue to be as gorgeous as you are, two 💕
Thank you bubbles!
Yes I can imagine less antiques etc in Oz. That’s a good point.
I’m glad you managed to vanquish weasel narc!
You will look gorgeous. Your outfit sounds great!
I’m liking middle age .. I get the impression a lot of us suddenly realise we’re fed up of being treated badly.. in love or elsewhere and get in touch with our strength. ❤️
Ps I’ve just been “op” shopping and got a lovely grey coat for £6. 🛍️
Hi Bubbles,
I think your last line likely explains the reason why ageing is not a process I find easy to view positively. My mum and best friend ( ten years older than me) both had a really hard time with the ageing process. Both are narcs so obviously, ageing threatens control.
The female friends I have now are my age or younger so I haven’t really seen anyone go through it whilst viewing it positively. I have only had people tell me how difficult it all is. Media portrayals don’t help too much either and if I see one more advert for assisted living I’m going to scream. Why is the algorithm presenting me with that rather than trying to sell me trips to Bali?! AI knows my fears I swear. What a complete asshole.
Self discipline can be positive but only to a point I think. Hopefully I’ll manage to tread the fine line! If not, at least I am well versed on where I will live out my twilight years. Wearing a fab brooch. Haha!
Hi Two,
I’m level headed about most things, definitely not all though!
Xx
Haha, me too TS.
I do think society creates a fear of menopause and aging for women though. I was 45 when I developed fibromyalgia so that’s also been in the mix but I do think there’s some genuinely good things that I’ve felt in the last few years of getting to 50 too. My probable narc mum pretends aging doesn’t affect her and I think that’s not healthy either.
There’s some research done about a u curve of happiness too (I think it also applies to primates).. happiness goes up again after our 50s.
Hi Two,
That’s interesting about women’s happiness quotient going up after 50. I’ve read also that empathy levels are linked to female hormones (primarily oestrogen I think) and reportedly empathy decreases after 50. This makes a lot of sense to me as women need the high empathy levels to patiently raise their children.
If happiness increases as empathy decreases then does it follow that increased self focus is the key to happiness? Obviously there would have to be a limit because narcs and psychopaths don’t experience happiness and are totally self focussed. It does potentially mean though that there is a partial correlation between empathy levels and perceived happiness. A sweet spot of sorts.
I feel another perfume purchase coming on.
Dear truth,
“Aging” was the only area my mum was obsessively insecure about…..I never saw her “stress” over anything else in her life. Her attitude was “oh well”.
Growing up, she would kiss her reflection in the mirror, daily.
As she got older, she convinced herself her beauty was fading and saw her reflection quite negatively and harshly.
My mum was a naturally beautiful woman.
When mum was in the nursing home, every visit I took photos and showed, pointing out her how gorgeous she looked.
I was there to give her all the “residual benefits” she needed.
Her “dementia” no longer recognised herself …..so sad !
Maybe that’s why I embrace aging more.
If people prefer to have facelifts, Botox etc, go for it, just as long as you do your research and have registered qualified practitioners.
I personally, prefer the à la naturale aging path. I’m quite enjoying the process and feel good about myself.
truth, I quite agree with the assisted living ads, (although, you could be receiving ones about incontinence pads haha).
We get ads for old people river cruises down the Rhine hehe
I’ll take Bali any day and enjoy a Bintang idling in the pool.
Dearest truth and two,
I really wish there was a Reply heading under each comment, instead of scrolling 10,000 comments up to find one, I have to keep going back and forth to read it and then I forget …… phew 😅
It’s the “menopause” age lovelies, that really sucked for me! If there was a symptom, I had it ! Some women breeze thru it and not notice anything. Not moi!!! My whole family said I was cray cray and I was ! 🤣
After that, it gets a whole lot better, trust me haha
Buy a brooch now, truth, you truly deserve it, jewellery solves all our problems, makes for great conversation when people see a brooch.
Two,
£6 for a coat, that’s brilliant …roughly $10-11 Aust…… well done!
I checked out your frugal fashion shopper and she’s gorg….. 80 years, wow, plus doing a blog, fantastic
Yes it’s a work our fjr our digits going through all these comments, Bubbles! 🖐️😅
I love what you write about aging .. very inspiring. Western society has sold all of us a crock of shit about what aging means haven’t they? 😄And it’s always better than the alternative, isn’t it?
I went cray cray early Bubbles around 40 with perimenopause, I now realise! Hormones have helped A LOT through my forties and now SNRIs and HRT are a life saver.
But I do see all the great stuff I’m finding too. I’m glad there’s much more talk and awareness about the menopause. It’s a big cause of divorces which is a shame but hopefully more education can help.
Yes, Penny looks great and is an interesting woman. ❤️
Two,
I suspect a big cause of divorce is also narcissists who don’t want to deal with the Cray Cray. In a marriage where there’s true love, the husband would do whatever he could to help his wife through that time, as crazy as it can get. Instead, my narc ex used it as an excuse, when it was convenient for him, though we’d never even spoken if it, not once. He also enjoyed the crazy, when he was controlling it. Asshole.
FYI, sometimes when I think about him my ET goes up a little. I don’t think about him much.
Good plan not to think about him much AV. I agree, completely. I guess, though very painful, the potential difficulties of menopause would “flush out” the narcs and the “selflessly-challenged”! 🥴🧐 Arseholes indeed.
You raise some interesting points TS. 🤔
“If happiness increases as empathy decreases then does it follow that increased self focus is the key to happiness?”
I think so on the whole. I think most empaths could do with some more (balanced) self focus and narcs, more “other focus” (which obviously can’t genuinely happen). I am finding this. I still try to be kind, but looking after myself more in recent years has increased my happiness, and an added bonus of more genuine empathy for others when needed. There’s obviously often 💩 to deal with as we get older, but maybe what were talking about is why we start to feel the growth and contentment side of things more too…
Hi Bubbles,
That’s very sad about your mum not recognising herself towards the end. It sounds like you did the very best you could by her. I will do right by my mum, but I’m not sure I have it within myself to demonstrate the genuine care that you clearly did. I see myself going through the motions, without feeling anything. I really don’t feel anything at all as far as my mum is concerned, so how much compassion I can muster remains to be seen.
My mum’s relationship with ageing is quite strange. She still fancies herself. When she’s dressed up she does this thing where she stands in the middle of the room and doesn’t sit down for ages, so everyone can see her. I’m considering buying a little portable podium that turns! For her it’s less about the physical changes and more about her fear of dying, fear of getting sick, losing her mobility and independence, ending up alone or in a home. Currently she’s focussed on the fact that she ought to move house when she doesn’t want to, fear of hospitals, unwillingness to travel abroad due to my dad’s health, inability to find a suitable house she can afford, basically, anything related to ageing other than physical appearance.
My best friend railed against her changing body, skin, hair and so on. Mourned the loss of her skinny jeans and fancy bras as her boobs grew. Lol. Everything physical bothered her, none of the life changes seemed to concern her, not at that point anyway.
Both are Somatic narcs but my mum was focussed on the material / life changes while my friend was focussed on the physical.
Between them, they have me covered haha! I think the older influencers are actually a good thing. I don’t like influencers usually, but I see more of a need for older women portraying a positive view of ageing. If nothing else, it proves that we don’t actually turn invisible after 50. Who knew ?!
Xx
“…reportedly empathy decreases after 50.” – That’s very interesting. I’ve definitely have felt a decrease in empathy and I’m over 50. I attributed it to learning about narcissism but maybe its a bit of both.
Dearest truth,
One of the saddest parts I found with mum, she didn’t realise how fabulous she looked at nearly 94.
Your mum obviously still needs attention and validation. Narcs need it 24/7 as well all know, however it becomes embarrassing for us and they are quite oblivious to it.
Hahaha all narcs should all have their own podium, (a spinning one, perfect) they’d be in their true element and obnoxious to boot.
I’ve never really thought too much about dying, I’m trying to appreciate what life I have left. It did make me contemplate life a bit more when I had my fall, I didn’t know if I was going to end up with brain damage or paralysed. I must be a cat with nine lives hehe.
“Sassy Gran” in another FB page I’ve been following for a long time. The gran passed away, however her daughter Dolly, is 79-80 yrs and both came from abusive relationships and they both turned their lives around. Great motivational stories. Wait til you see Dolly !
“Life in my 70’s” FB page, she’s fabulous as well, does yoga and is ageing gracefully, looks amazing.
I’m not into influencers either, however, some, can be so inspiring, particularly after narc abuse. At least it’s a great start, motivator and pick me up.
Personally, I haven’t felt invisible at all from aging, I’m trying to fight people off with mum’s witches stick and spells 🤣
Bubbles,
I think your attitude to ageing is well balanced, a case of having fun and making the effort to look and feel good whilst accepting the process. Looking good for your age as opposed to trying to do everything you can to look younger than your age. There’s a difference to that mentally I think.
Oh yes, plenty of validation still required. I give it occasionally, when she isn’t preening. Not excessively but I will say,“ You look nice mum.”
Two, Leigh
The falling empathy, I have heard a few times. Most recently I listened to an endocrinologist being interviewed. She was explaining the various life phases from a hormonal perspective, the impact of lifestyle, diet, life events such as childbirth etc. interestingly, when men become fathers their testosterone levels drop. Mother Nature encouraging them to raise the child or at least stay with the mother long enough to ensure the child has a higher chance of survival.
I’d question how happiness is measured. It’s subjective. On paper we could look identical in terms of circumstance but our estimation of how happy we are might be vastly different. I am sure there is a trend in reported happiness, but exactly how accurate it would be I’m not sure.
I’m not sure either if happiness is something to chase. Things that might make us happy in the short term might make us unhappy in the long term. Happiness for me might require shedding responsibilities for example, resulting in those around me being dramatically less happy. I think “ being at ease with my decisions” is likely more important to me personally than the ephemeral feeling of happiness or the idea I achieved it.
Well said as always TS.
Dear truth,
I try haha
That’s lovely you say that to you mum, especially because you mean it.
I’ve had hormonal (period pains etc) and endo issues most of my life, low blood pressure, 3 Caesars, prone to fainting blah blah blah. Sometimes I wished I was a bloke haha
I too, have thought about happiness (seeing as I didn’t have an happy childhood) and I must say, having a dog in the family has really shown me how happy they are. They live for the moment and not dwell on the past or future. They are happy to see you every single moment of the day haha They get a buzz going for a walk or having a ball thrown for them or happy to have their belly rubbed. They are literally happy being happy.
I too, want to be happy for the sake of being happy, what a goal to strive for. I think “happiness” does attract people with problems (maybe a bit of jealousy there because they aren’t happy and therefore craving that empathy (which is draining for us) ) Then there are those (narcs in particular) who meet us when we’re happy and then want to shatter and break us completely. I may have mentioned this before, in my first marriage, that was what I based my whole basis for leaving on ….I literally asked myself “do I stay and be unhappy or do I leave and be happy?”
I chose happy!
Growing older, one appreciates life more, we have time to reflect appreciate. We analyse and re-evaluate, prioritise and stress less.
Fair enough, when you have a family, they come first and we tend to put ourselves on the back burner. Chores, cleaning, grocery shopping are boring, however, a necessity.
I could never see myself “being happy with less”, I really do like my stuff…..it makes me happy Haha
Hi Bubbles,
“That’s lovely, you say that to your mum, especially because you mean it.”
I’m afraid I don’t mean it. Not in the way that you would mean it anyway. I say it for two reasons. First, a reward for good behaviour. Monologue, attention seek, pity play and you get nothing. Reign that in, you get fuel.
Second, because it makes my dad happy when he thinks my mum and I are getting along.
I feel absolutely nothing for my mum. I don’t hate her, blame her, wish ill on her. I don’t love her, like her, or mourn the loss of the idea of her. I feel absolutely nothing whatsoever. Actually, occasionally I feel irritation.
Some might explain this as empathy erosion. It isn’t. As empathy can erode, so can it return. That will never happen here. I am not hurt, I am not damaged or upset. I have simply nothinged her.
I do with her exactly what she did with me. I go through the motions, without any genuine emotional empathy behind them. It’s cognitive empathy and only when I feel like it.
I will always do right by my mum. She will always be looked after, catered for and will never go without. This is nothing to do with her and everything to do with my moral compass, which remains fully intact.
I didn’t want you to be under any false illusion there Bubbles. What you did for your mum, what I very much admire, is that you treated her with emotional empathy despite everything. What I will do for mine is purely cognitive, a moral obligation, what my dad would want, if he is no longer around. My duty as an only child.
I’m not sure that many here can relate to this coldness without there being an underlying pain in the background. There is genuinely no pain. There’s just nothing in the space where that relationship should be. It sounds cold I know, that’s because it is.
I laughed about your dog analogy. That’s so true. Go out of the room and they miss you, come back in and they greet you as if you were away for weeks. You’re right, they are happy just being happy. A really great analogy. I can’t even contemplate the day when my dog is no longer by my side.
I think your decision making about staying and being unhappy or leaving and being happy was the right decision for you. I think it’s often easier to realise when we are unhappy and so make the necessary change than it is sometimes to recognise that we are happy or that we will have a chance to be happy at a later stage. Sometimes it can be difficult to leap into the unknown, but recognising we are unhappy has to be the first step.
I think for me personally, I would still choose to be at ease with my decisions rather than to have achieved happiness throughout. It’s possibly a different way of saying a very similar thing though. I certainly wouldn’t stay in a situation where I was unhappy long term. Like most empaths, I likely do prioritise the needs of others above my own at times, particularly when it comes to my children. That’s the way it should be though I think. I’m a mum, I only have one job.
Maybe when my hormones go wappy and my empathy level drops I’ll be able to better prioritise my own happiness above all else. Might go travelling to France, find myself a hot lover! Might find two! Haha! We found it Bubbles! The up side ! 😂
Hey Dani: very interesting share and analysis….. I have thought about “ origins” and “ triggers “ of classes and cadres. For what it is worth:
Contagion. I think this is inherited and created from being raised in a creative household and around nature where people are sensitive to others and surroundings.
Carrier: I think because I came from humble beginnings and I left young, on y own after high school always working two sometimes 3 jobs, I bought my own car ( well a Harley roadster was my first purchase) paid myself to move to California, put myself through college to study in the UK, and law school, and that I learned along the way… the world is tough, how to be independent and with that I felt inclined to carry others. But it started with having at 17 to carry myself. As to martyr, I really tie it to my religious beliefs and I find it no coincidence my hero’s or roles models were Martyrs or martyr like: Jesus, Martin Luther King, Harriet Tubman, Sister Catrini, and I read the book of Saints at a young age as I lived by St Maria Greta a nunnery, my absolute favorite was St Francis! His creed is my creed of life. People who are willing to give up even their lives for love. It’s always love. Geyser: I am an extrovert and get excited about things (?)Super: I already said it’s the least of my recognizable traits but I admire Suers a lot. People like JK. Perhaps this small sliver appears in my profession.
Personality is fixed. I think it’s mostly DNA which can give you a propensity to temperament, sensitivity, mirroring…. Plus your environment and culture but I would even throw in career choice. I am great with children and volunteered at church. I love 0-5. If I had been spending days from 20 to 50 with toddlers versus courtrooms would I be the same….. then again…. lol as to Narcs… I was just an ignorant bumbling idiot who fell madly in love with this tall dark and handsome creative Londoner with a good job with the greatest accent who loved the things I love to do. And sex was off the charts. I felt the red flag. I ignored to over his words and wanting the dream to be real. My past relations were with empaths and Normals, mostly, thank God, so when the abuse occurred I was stunned, shocked, blown away. Until I met HG I had no idea. So first I blamed the booze. He quit drinking. I took him back. Then it didn’t stop…. Wtf? I blamed external stressors… immigration, culture change, job loss then 8-9 jobs losses, pot ( his substitute), living with teens (mine and they were not troubled just teens), his mum ( nightmare) until I found HG! HG saved me. Forever grateful. Not sure my classes or cadres included complete ignorance or stupidity….. But once educated, we got separated then divorced. I still loved him even though I wish I wouldn’t but I tried to manage his narcissism by living in two separate countries and visiting. It didn’t work. I also wanted to be so strong that if he was naked on his knees, begging me back after years of therapy, I would still resist him. I wanted to change me into being a strong beast able to be immune to him. Nope. …. Nothing worked. Over now. Only HG works! Especially his consults!
I hope everyone had/is having a good Christmas break. I have been thoroughly enjoying the reindeer gender debate!
I have a question for anyone – if you can recall an article or YT video of HG’s that references how the narcissist’s eyes turn black, face contorts and/or voice changes during ignited fury?
I am asking for a new colleague who, I believe, was involved with a Lesser narcissist (given what she shared.) I don’t just want to direct her to the entire playlist for lessers. I know of videos touching on the Deathstare, but cannot locate one on the black eyes.
I have introduced her to HG’s work, but she is particularly interested in the above aspect of the narcissist’s behaviour. The physical change in her ex, during episodes of fury, seemed to really leave an impact on her.
Hi WhoCares, is this the one? https://narcsite.com/2021/02/03/the-changing-face-of-the-narcissist/
Hope you’re having a good rest too xx
Hi WC,
Here’s what I found. The Stare talks about the face contorting during devaluation.
https://narcsite.com/2021/02/26/the-narcissists-stare/
https://narcsite.com/2017/09/03/the-cold-dead-stare-2/
https://narcsite.com/2025/11/28/the-dead-eyes-of-the-narcissist/
Oh, thank-you Leigh!
“The Stare” does mention the darkened eyes – perfect! And, I am sure all those articles together will be of interest to her.
“The Changing Face of the Narcissist”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6Jlu18Mw8
HG has published this one a few times (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNAm1759yc4, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRpAQ4IUsNg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDm-Fmowg7s), the comments are worth a read as well.
I think this is the video you were referring to, WC.
https://youtu.be/cDm-Fmowg7s?si=qR3kFSmdv0IP33Xn
Mustn’t forget the N&P channel! This is the most recent appearance, I think:
And this one:
https://narcsite.com/2016/04/14/the-dead-eyes-of-darkness/
Best Wishes WhoCares ✨
What a cute avatar picture Z ! 🐾♥️
Z!
Thank-you. That’s an oldie, but a goodie.
Best wishes to you as well, Z, and take care.💛 ✨
Who cares: my ex husband was a middle lesser. Only once when he drank did he change: eyes black, voice changed, facial expressions changed. His “ mum” was his grandma and she was a cockney described by other family members as hostile. I think he became her. It could have been dissociating but I think it was learned behavior and I rage… that’s what he lied lie that one horrible time.
Hi Contagious,
Thank-you for sharing. Similar to your ex, I am thinking that my colleague might have been dealing with a Middle Lesser narcissist. He was very violent and the most significant instance was in public, with witnesses.
Asp Amp, Anna Plyance, Leigh –
Yes, Asp Amp – thank-you! I think this was the video I was remembering; I recall the story about HG’s own eyes changing. But I couldn’t find this one, so I appreciate it.
Thank-you Anna Plyance; yes, I hope she reads some of the comments to these articles/videos – she’ll see that her experience matches that of others. And thank-you very much for the N&P link. I think that is a updated recording of the same video. I also had sent her a link to HG’s Narcissism and Psychopathy channel (in case it was her preference) but I don’t want to overwhelm her.
Leigh – thanks also for the video link. I had forwarded her the blog article links you found and she was really excited to start reading them (she was working at the time of sending.)
You all are so helpful – and thank-you HG, of course, for moderating.
Hi WhoCares, yes, I had wondered if it was this particular video. Glad to have made a contribution to your quest in order to assist further your colleague. You will be of great support to her, thank you for that. x
Hi WC,
I’m happy to help! I hope those articles and the video resonates with your friend. She’s lucky to have you to help point her in the right direction.
Dani
“Depends Mode” made me laugh.
They are getting up there.
NA, Autocorrect keeps ruining things, like proper spelling, for me…
Dear Mr Tudor,
Could you please describe to us, what “kind of person” welcomes with “profound relief“ a person like Alaa Abd El-Fattah back into their country?
Asking on behalf of all western countries
Many thanks
Provide context.
Who said or wrote that?
What’s their relationship to the individual?
Dear Mr Tudor,
This individual is a political activist and has been a prisoner in Egypt for a period spanning over 12 years. He was born in Egypt and has dual citizenship with Britain. He’s called himself racist, hates white people and calls them dogs and monkeys, spews antisemitic views and wants them murdered, British Police to be attacked and killed and Downing St to be burned down.
Keir Starmer expressed “I’m delighted that Alaa Abd El-Fattah is back in the UK and has been reunited with his loved ones, who must be feeling profound relief”
How would you describe Keir Starmer from your perspective on letting this maniac back into Britain?
Hello Bubbles,
I am aware of who the individual is. I asked “Who said or wrote that?
What’s their relationship to the individual?” to gain context as one can envisage that his immediate family would express profound relief with regard to his release.
With regard to Starmer, he once again demonstrates how his student union mentality makes him unfit to hold office.
Dear Mr Tudor,
My apologies, I should’ve been more descriptive. My “shorthand” brain thinks in mysterious ways and my empath traits give too much or not enough. Usually it’s all or nothing these days, comes in spurts (I’m forever working on it) hahaha
However, your answer, “With regard to Starmer, he once again demonstrates how his student union mentality makes him unfit to hold office” was bloody brilliant and all the confirmation I needed.
Thank you kind sir, I appreciate your reply
Hi HG: your a test video on the Narc and Painted Back was powerful. I hope any hear it and get help! Thank you for your work!
You are welcome.
It totally triggered me. Reminded me of my first narc. I couldn’t listen. I fast-forward to the end to hear what type he was.
As an Australian, are you familiar with Peter Greste, Bubbles? If so, what do you think of what happened to him?
Dear annaamel,
No sorry lovely, I had to look him up and noticed he had a connection with Alaa Abd El-Fattah!
It appears he’s doing well now from what I read. I don’t agree with anyone being falsely accused or imprisoned, however, the authorities in Egypt at the time thought differently.
Dear annaamel,
No sorry lovely, I had to look him up”
I appreciate you doing so.
“and noticed he had a connection with Alaa Abd El-Fattah!”
Yes. When he was first imprisoned in Egypt he was pretty freaked out. He met Abd El-Fattah who befriended him, gave him support and helped him understand what to expect as a newly arrived (political) prisoner.
“It appears he’s doing well now from what I read.”
He ended up being released to the Australian authorities and because the Australian Govn didn’t consider his conduct criminal, he has resumed a normal life.
“I don’t agree with anyone being falsely accused or imprisoned, however, the authorities in Egypt at the time thought differently.”
Well that’s the rub. If a government decides you’re a problem, and wants you jailed, it doesn’t really matter if it’s wrongful – you will be imprisoned – and find it hard to get out.
Dear annaamel,
Thank goodness for Australia giving him a fair hearing. Obviously Egypt is different.
I have a few questions for all blog readers.
1. What made you research narcissism and eventually land in HG’s lap?
2. Have you been in an intimate relationship with a narcissist?
3. Are you currently ensnared by a narcissist?
4. Do you have one or more parents who are narcissists?
5. If you have to choose one thing, what is your most beneficial takeaway from HG’s material?
6. What do you see as your biggest weakness?
7. How are you healing from narcissistic abuse?
8. How long have you been following HG?
9. What advice would you give someone who is new to understanding narcissism?
Hello AmusedEmpath,
1. What made you research narcissism and eventually land in HG’s lap?
I was ensnared by a narcissist in online game. I broke up with him in May 2024 (I emotionally cheated on my narc husband). I was in pain and confused, I did still love him (though now I’m not sure it was love, actually) despite me ending it. I was looking for some tool to confirm my suspicious. I found HG Tudor YT channel through a recommendation at Quora. Narc Detector did identify him (the guy from the game) as a narcissist.
2. Have you been in an intimate relationship with a narcissist?
Yes and not once.
3. Are you currently ensnared by a narcissist?
No
4. Do you have one or more parents who are narcissists?
I highly suspect my mother is. Sometimes I think my both parents are narcissists, sometimes, that none of them. Haven’t done narc detectors on them. I’m absolutely convinced my both grandfathers were narcissists (different types) and my beloved grandmother (she is still alive) is a codependent empath.
5. If you have to choose one thing, what is your most beneficial takeaway from HG’s material?
To learn that I don’t need men to feel validated and worthy.
6. What do you see as your biggest weakness?
Self doubt.
7. How are you healing from narcissistic abuse?
It has been a bumpy road.
8. How long have you been following HG?
Since August 2024. First YT channel, joined the blog one year ago.
9. What advice would you give someone who is new to understanding narcissism?
Well, embrace yourself, cause HG is going to:
…. take you on a trip
Around the world and back
And you won’t have to move, you just sit still
Now let your mind do the walking…
You will never look at the world the way you used to.
Great idea AmusedEmpath!
Thanks for your reply Arya. Very interesting.
1. What made you research narcissism and eventually land in HG’s lap?
I realised my mum is likely a narcissist in 2019. I spent about five years reading everything about it. I think I discovered HG around this time too and noticed straight away that his classifications seemed much more accurate to my experiences than any other sources (covert narcissism for example, covered too much). However I was a bit scared of the idea of HG and a bit overwhelmed by the amount of videos he produced (I think I felt like I should keep up!). I think this year I felt like I’d done my PhD in narcissism and started looking more at HG on top of that to realise this is a whole other kind of knowledge. I realise I’ve had many narcissist dealings within family, friends, bosses, colleagues and potentially some romantic partners.
2. Have you been in an intimate relationship with a narcissist?
I am not 100% sure but think so since learning more here.
3. Are you currently ensnared by a narcissist?
No.
4. Do you have one or more parents who are narcissists?
One I believe to be so and I am not sure about the other. They kind of often worked like a “tag team” to manipulate us at times but my dad could have been an emotionally eroded, enabling empath or a narcissist or somewhere in-between. I’m not clear.
5. If you have to choose one thing, what is your most beneficial takeaway from HG’s material?
The accuracy, the detailed breakdowns (particularly video analysis) and just huge depth of knowledge. Sorry I can’t do one! But also his wicked humour is the cherry on top! 🍒 The lives and ask HGs are hilarious as well as educational.
6. What do you see as your biggest weakness?
ET, sensitivity (though that’s a big strength too I realise now) and a bit of a sucker for seeing the good in people, to a fault (though this is a million times better nowadays).
7. How are you healing from narcissistic abuse?
Reading here and applying all I’ve learnt here and over the past five or six years generally. Being more logical and taking care of myself and realising not only is that allowed, it’s essential. I find I’m more genuinely empathetic since learning all this and looking after my empathy reserves and not pouring it down the black hole that is narcissists.
8. How long have you been following HG?
Five or six years on and off.. 5 months in depth here.
9. What advice would you give someone who is new to understanding narcissism?
-Try to go to HG first if possible.
-Also it’s the shittiest realisation to realise you’ve been ensnared by a narcissist but also the most freeing one and can be a huge catalyst for positive change.
“Well, embrace yourself, cause HG is going to:
…. take you on a trip
Around the world and back
And you won’t have to move, you just sit still
Now let your mind do the walking…
You will never look at the world the way you used to.”
What a treat reference for HGs work, Arya. Exactly how I feel. 👌💯
Thank you Jade 😊
1. I was told by psychologist that I was most likely dealing with a textbook narcissist. I went digging on the internet.
2. yes
3. No
4. probably
5. My choices and decisions are my own responsibility.
6. Self control
7. I would say I’m healed.
8. About 8 years now
9. Give yourself time and grace. The road to healing isn’t a straight line.
Hi amusedempath,
Thank you for your questions. Here are my answers:
1.What made you research narcissism and eventually land in HG’s lap?
After many years of attempting unsuccessfully to improve long-term-relationships with family members, I found myself in a highly traumatic work-related experience.
In addition, ever since I could remember, I had had difficulties with social and romantic relationships. The more I tried to improve relationships, the worse I was treated.
These experiences culminated in severe cognitive dissonance to the point that I was ruminating constantly. I was emotionally exhausted, highly anxious, and depressed. It felt like I was always going full speed ahead and yet was moving backwards. I felt hopeless and unmotivated.
In order to recover from debilitating anxiety and depression, I began to read about and research a wide variety of topics on mental health, including depression, anxiety, self-esteem, self-compassion, mindfulness, religion, spirituality, etc.
My research eventually led me to learn about narcissism, which made sense to me in relation to family relationships as well as romantic and work relationships.
After reading about narcissism for a few months, I came across HG on Twitter initially, and then discovered the blog.
2. Have you been in an intimate relationship with a narcissist?
Yes. I believe every intimate relationship I have had has been with a narcissist.
I found it relatively easy to end these relationships, though, because they were either unrewarding or unsustainable.
3. Are you currently ensnared by a narcissist?
No.
4. Do you have one or more parents who are narcissists?
Yes, I strongly believe so, even though a deceased parent was never diagnosed. With regard to my living parent, I believe they may have OCPD instead of being a narcissist.
5. If you have to choose one thing, what is your most beneficial takeaway from HG’s material?
There are two things I need to mention here.
5a) The reading material. HG’s posts are very informative and easy to digest despite the difficult subject. The posts really made me think deeply about narcissism and I understood it in a clear way. This did not happen after reading academic articles or other established information about it.
5b)The ability to discuss many aspects of narcissism – as well as my thoughts and experiences – with others here on the blog. This has helped a lot in terms of me understanding and evaluating my traits and personal beliefs; as well as becoming more aware of my problematic tendencies and behaviours.
6. What do you see as your biggest weakness?
I have a few…
Among the worst are: High emotional reactivity. Distrust. Inability to relax and enjoy social situations. Defensiveness.
7. How are you healing from narcissistic abuse?
Daily research and learning. Self-care and self-compassion. Learning not to care so much about what people think if I set boundaries or prioritise myself.
8. How long have you been following HG?
Seven years.
9. What advice would you give someone who is new to understanding narcissism?
It would depend on their situation and how much knowledge they already had about narcissists.
If they were in an abusive relationship and were unaware of narcissism, I would try to offer emotional support and kindness.
If there was already some awareness of narcissism, I would talk about things that have helped me to better understand it myself, such as…
When with a narcissist, it is now scientifically known that cognitive dissonance (CD) becomes extremely severe and problematic. Along with any trauma, the CD seriously affects the executive functioning regions of the brain.
I think it would help to somehow try and tell a person new to narcissism that ruminating and CD is a ‘normal’ symptom after being with a narcissist, however, it is a very unhealthy symptom to have. The only way to stop the CD is to leave the relationship and strive to have no contact.
I think it is also very important when talking to a person new to narcissism to gently insist that the narcissist will not change no matter how much the person tries to love them or help them.
Another scientifically known aspect about those in relationships with narcissists is that they have the personality trait of consientiousness to a higher degree than average. People high in conscientiousness are achievement-oriented and do not like to fail. They are persistent and diligent in their efforts. This aspect of their personality means they don’t like to ‘fail’ with regard to their relationships either. If a person was ensnared in a relationship with a narcissist, I would try to explain that their own trait of conscientiousness means they keep believing they can change the narcissist or change the relationship for the better.
Thanks GP and WN.
WN – what you write about CD and conscientious was really useful, thank you.
You’re very welcome, Jade.
Amusedempath:
I came from a family of empaths but I found myself in my 40s falling madly in l ove with a narcissist and in a marriage of 12 years. My friends and past romances were and are empaths and Normals. Narcs only appear in my legal profession. So I was Iike a child finding a weird creature on the beach? It was absolutely horrifying and harmful yet it swayed from good to bad. I had absolutely no idea what this creature was until I met HG which was 10 years ago? If attacked by a strange creature that abuses ir harms you you never want to go back so I remain here vigilante and learning and…. Reinforcing my learning. Nothing is better than HG!
Dear amusedempath,
1. Originally searched military PTSD which mentioned “narcissists”, then Mr Tudor’s blog popped up, haven’t had the experience of HG’s lap haha
2. Yes, when I was young, but didn’t know it at the time, to a narc I’m a flashing neon sign haha
3. No
4. Yes
5. Never ever dismiss my female intuition
6. A glass of bubbles haha ….believing and trusting people
7. Deep down I will never fully heal, the scars are forever as a reminder, however,
I endeavour to turn everthing into a positive
8. 2016 from memory
9. Research as much as you can for as long as possible
Well done on the questions lovely, hope you were amused
1. What made you research narcissism and eventually land in HG’s lap?
My ex said something like, “I wouldn’t do well in another relationship because I’m quite narcissistic.”
That must have stayed in my subconscious, because after him I was with another narcissist and when we broke up I first googled “highly sensitive person” and then “narcissism.” Knowing the narcissist came up on my Facebook feed and I messaged HG. He informed me that the person I was dealing with was a narcissist. I was shocked when I learnt that narcissists have no emotional empathy. I said that can’t be because my ex cried when we were watching a documentary and he told me that he did that to impress me. I was in disbelief that people like this existed.
Well, I knew people like that existed in documentaries as serial killers and chances are, I would never meet them. But I didn’t know there were different types and that they weren’t all violent and they had slept in my bed and I was related to them!
2. Have you been in an intimate relationship with a narcissist?
Yes, unfortunately. I’m not one of those who say they are glad it happened so they could learn.. no, I deserved to have had it easier.
3. Are you currently ensnared by a narcissist?
I don’t know, someone I know may be a narcissist and to them I’m ensnared.
4. Do you have one or more parents who are narcissists?
Both
5. If you have to choose one thing, what is your most beneficial takeaway from HG’s material?
Learning about the prime aims
6. What do you see as your biggest weakness?
Pass
7. How are you healing from narcissistic abuse?
I will never be healed. Sure things improve, but narcissism was my foundation
8. How long have you been following HG?
Something like 9 yrs
9. What advice would you give someone who is new to understanding narcissism?
Avoid the advice of anyone who claims a narcissist can change or genuinely wants to and suggests therapy. There has been an increase on social media of self proclaimed narcissists talking about wanting to change and heal. Some of them will also purport to be psychopaths; they are frauds.
Hi Witch,
“I was in disbelief that people like this existed.”
I remember when I felt the same way. It seemed so foreign and unbelievable to me.
Witch,
“2. Have you been in an intimate relationship with a narcissist?
Yes, unfortunately. I’m not one of those who say they are glad it happened so they could learn.. no, I deserved to have had it easier.”
❤️
Agreed Witch and WC! ☝️
Hi Witch, did you look up HSP in relation to yourself?
Hi Jade
No I looked up HSP in relation to the narcissist because I thought this particular narcissist was overly sensitive, I didn’t know what his issue was. And yes later I found he was overly sensitive but to things that threatened his control.
Now in all fairness to him, I tend to just do things without anyone else’s permission so it makes total sense why I was devalued so quickly. I don’t have a tendency to fight that hard, it’s more like… I’m just going to do what I’m doing, if you don’t like it you need to have a good enough explanation or I’m not going to get it. The first narc would have to go on and on and intimidate me to gain control but I was very young then, so it was much more difficult for the 2nd narc because I learnt some things from the 1st.
I’m having to learn to consult with my wife first before doing things, it’s a challenge.
That’s what I wondered Witch. That makes sense. I get what you mean about just doing things, I’m that way too but yes though very painful to experience, it would flush a narcissist out!
Evening HG,
I hope you’re well and having a good holiday season.
If some empaths can have strong narcissistic traits but stronger empathic ones, I’m guessing their narcissistic ones could be stronger than a normal person’s narcissistic traits? And possibly a narcissistic person’s?
Thank you 🙏
That is a possibility.
Thank you HG. As always, I appreciate you answering my many questions. 🙏🙏🙏
Is moving cities conducive to implement your total no contact regime?
So long as it’s moving away from the relevant narcissist then it is an excellent step to put physical distance between you and the narcissist.
Hi HG, when there’s an aware narcissist and unaware narcissist in a relationship like bill and Hillary, would the aware ever alude to their combined manipulative nature or talk about it at all? Or do they “play along” with the unawares facade?
Allied to whom? The unaware narcissist or third parties?
Hi HG, Would the aware alude to manipulating others to the unaware…?
If the aware determined it was advantageous to do so.
Thank you HG
Mr. Tudor,
I hope you had a very merry Christmas. I loved learning about your different Christmas trees in your interview with Michelle. I agree with her that it would be magical to see the Ultra’s Christmas trees.
You said something, and I don’t know if you were purposefully being playful…but you got me stirred up. I know my biological reindeer facts.
Fact 1: Male and female reindeer (caribou) both grow antlers.
Fact 2: Male reindeer shed the antlers in early December (after mating season).
Fact 3: Female reindeer keep their antlers till spring.
Since Santa’s reindeer are always antlered in their depictions, the logical conclusion that Santa’s sleigh is pulled by female reindeer. (Assuming magical reindeer adhere to the biology of their closest cousins…which I do.)
Thank you so much for everything. Much appreciated.
What about the flying ones though?
Dear HG and Dani,
Rudolph is male and he had antlers while pulling Santa’s sleigh. Xx Hope you had a great Christmas, HG and everyone! Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
Hi Rebecca,
I love Rudolph. Rudolph made sure Santa found homes for the Misfit Toys. The Spotted Elephant, I love him. Rudolph is a high quality empath reindeer!
Hi Dani,
Yes, he’s my favorite reindeer, the one picked on for being different and he is very empathic too. I wonder what kind of empath Rudolph is? Didn’t HG do a Christmas analysis of Rudolph before, or am I remembering wrong? Xx
Rebecca,
I think Rudolph must be a savior cadre majority with strong magnetic and strong carrier traits. Very charismatic, became “most famous reindeer of all.” Rudolph saved Christmas, despite being excluded from reindeer games. I’m guessing super empath, majority with contagion and a sliver of codependent.
When Rudolph returned to Christmas Town, the other reindeer were still jerks…but Rudolph chose to continue on the path of right and good.
Mr. Tudor has posted videos were we got to advance our theories about the classifications for Rudolph, Ebenezer Scrooge, Harry Lime, and Jack Frost.
Thanks Dani! I would love to know what HG’s opinion of Rudolph’s schools and cadres are, HG will you tell us? Pretty pleaseeeee? Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
@ Dani @ Rebecca
Rudolph was voted narcissist by the readers of the blog, if my memory serves me correctly.
Z – zwartbolleke,
The readers aren’t perfect. They must have made a mistake in voting…likely the result of Mr. Tudor’s narcy wiles… And Rudolph is an empath. *cuddles Rudolph plushes* Such a cuddly Christmas-saving reindeer.
Hi Dani and Z,
I think the other reindeer rigged the voting! No way is Rudolph a narcissist….must be more of those naughty reindeer games! 😄xx
Here are the results of the voting:
https://narcsite.com/2019/12/25/hgs-christmas-captives-verdicts-and-sentencing/
And Mr Tudors’ comment regarding the result of Rudolph:
https://narcsite.com/2019/12/25/hgs-christmas-captives-verdicts-and-sentencing/#comment-326785
LOL Rebecca!
I wouldn’t be surprised if the other reindeer rigged the vote, lol!
Its still open to vote. Maybe we can change it!
https://narcsite.com/2021/12/18/hgs-christmas-captives-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/
@Leigh
Oh Thank you, now I remember the whole thing again!!
Here’s what happened next:
https://narcsite.com/2019/12/26/wanted-extinguished-or-shining/
Hi Leigh,
I voted and poor Rudolph needs a new trail! 😄xx
Oh no, Z! We have to save Rudolph!
Flying reindeer to have two “Mutant X” genes if you will. This gene allows for flight (and a shiny red nose in a singular case) but in no way impacts antlers.
What is your basis for magical reindeer masculinity, sir?
Thank you for your time! Much appreciated!
I’ve just spoken to the Professor of Reindeers at Claus University in Finland, Professor Alfred Colpeart. He explained the antlers are necessary for stability when flying whilst male reindeer are required for enhanced musculature to deal with circumnavigating the globe several times in one night. Accordingly, the reindeers that pull Santa’s sleigh have the power of flight, are male and have antlers.
Take it up with Professor Colpeart.
Professor Colpeart has advanced very questionable theories about magical reindeer. In fact, the North Pole Scientific Journal recently retracted the study of his they printed, saying he had clearly drank too much egg nog whilst snorting candy cane dust…
Outrageous allegations, you’ll be hearing from Sue, Grabbit and Runne or Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer!
Dear HG,
Did you use the portal through the Tower’s fireplace, to get there and back so quickly? Or, was it a phone call? 😄xx
A phone call. This isn’t Hogwarts!
Hello HG, I found the discussion about reindeers rather amusing and fascinating…… Dani’s Fact 3 was something I was not aware of until I watched ‘Chris and Michaela : Under the Christmas Sky’ (aired on 20th December 2025). Chris had wished to see the Northern Lights in person and achieved this ‘goal’ of his during the travels with Michaela.
On another note….. it was in ‘The Sound Of Music’ when the song ‘Do-Re-Mi’ was ….”Doe, a deer, a female deer…..”
I suppose, a reindeer “flying” is possible, should someone be wearing a reindeer coat while collecting their air-miles….
The eldest Von Trapp child was a boy called Rupert rather than a girl called Liesl, so we will leave the Sound of Mucus (as Christopher Plummer called it) out of this discussion!
“A phone call. This isn’t Hogwarts!”
I imagine Tudor Towers like Hogwarts but a bit scarier! .. and with better furnishings!
Dear HG,
😄😄No worries of mispronounciations needed here then! 😄😄xx
I used a babel fish.
Dear HG and Dani,
Rudolph will be making a phone call to his lawyer, he’ll use his shiny red nose to call him up quickly! Xx
Dear HG,
I do so admire that Ultra mind you have! Xx❤️🔥❤️🔥
Professor Colpeart’s lawyers have a problem with the scientific journal or the North Pole Bugel, who called him an “Eggy Cane Head”…not me.
Hi Jade,
That’s exactly how I imagine the Tudor Tower too! 😄xx
Haha! Great minds think alike Rebecca.
Though I also conflate my childrens stories and imagine yellow minions running around after HG too 😂
There’s definitely a red smoking jacket in this picture too!
Hi Jade,
Don’t forget the hellhounds standing by the throne too! They like to snack on the Minions. 😄xx
Hehe Rebecca! We need an artistic rendition of Tudor towers, don’t we? 😂
Hi Jade,
Tudor Towers is etched into my mind already. 😄xx
Haha Rebecca. There’s a lot of big old houses and mansions near where I live and I was having a walk in the misty winter weather and had a thought about his weird it would be if HG was close by living in one of those. #tt 🏰
Hi Jade,
I was doing my laps last night, after dark, and I was thinking about HG too…and the icy lake walk HG does every year in the Winter time. Xx
I didn’t run into any hellhounds though, so HG wasn’t close by. 😄xx
Hehe Rebecca! Always jerk an eye out for hellhounds 👀😄
Ah, but according to Wikipedia, “in the Scandinavian and Arctic Circle populations, old bulls’ antlers fall off in late December, young bulls’ antlers fall off in the early spring, and cows’ antlers fall off in the summer. ” Santa’s reindeer would surely qualify as Arctic Circle population, so if correct, there could be males among them. Going by their names, at least some of them would have to be males. Donner and Blitzen are male names, not to forget old Rudolph.
None of this is relevant as they are a unique species owing to their capacity for flight. The usual considerations for reindeer are rendered redundant in relation to Rangifer Tarandus Fuga.
If they have a gender at all, their names are very much relevant.
What I meant was those considerations are entirely applicable to earth and reindeer, AP, but those considerations fall by the wayside when we are dealing with the rare and unusual flying type, namely the male reindeer keep their antlers when they’re the flying type!
Hi AP,
On this matter, I very much agree with HG.
“The usual considerations for reindeer are rendered redundant in relation to Rangifer Tarandus Fuga.”
The gender debate with regard to Santa’s reindeer is a non-issue.
It is widely known, and on good authority, that Santa’s reindeer have magical powers. This factor is re-confirmed annually.
They are not like normal reindeer in normal forests. They are different. They can fly. They can be either male or female and their antlers never fall off.
Also, your Latin teacher needs a good thrashing!
Once I spent a very ill Christmas in London and watched an HOUR of the Sami riding reindeer eating lingonberries ( my favorite.) There whole culture is reindeer. Maybe start there….
I suspect those antlers must have additional energy reserves, hidden rotorblade or jet-engine-type muscles or something else, otherwise it would be a rather inefficient design for flying. Any word from Professor Colpeart on that?
He’s busy with his lawyers at present.
Rudolph just called from the Artic. He says he is victim of workplace harassment due to his red nose! He says he will be a whistle blower on wage hour violations of the elves. Plus female reindeer have Title 13 violations as they don’t keep their antlers when flying and aren’t getting promoted. Sadly I have no jurisdiction and it appears neither does Europe or most of the world as Santas Vilage is not part of The Hague Convention. Oh dear! I had to refer him to the Winter Warlock !
Contagious,
How does flying without antlers amount to a Title 13 violation?
Sounds like falsely created accusations designed to oppress female reindeer and prevent them being promoted. The glass ceiling effect.
Sheesh … discriminatory practices even in Santa’s Village? Seriously?
Well … come to think of it, the voting in HG’s Christmas Captives did result in Santa being a narcissist. The voting result was decisive too.
https://narcsite.com/2019/12/24/hgs-christmas-captives-3/
Hi Everyone,
In light of all this reindeer and Rudolph talk, I thought I’d point you to this poll. The votes pointed to narcissist but no way, no how. Rudolph is definitely an empath.
https://narcsite.com/2021/12/18/hgs-christmas-captives-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/
Thanks, Leigh! Your skilfull searching has come through again.
I remember the Christmas Captives and the Rudolph poll. Yes, Rudie’s an empath. It’s clear as day.
Ha ha ha, thank you to everyone who participated in the reindeer conversation! I had a great laugh 😀
I have no doubt that the reindeer in Santa’s sleigh are female. That’s the reality around me 😀 Perhaps that’s how the world is.
Rudolph, as the head of the flying section, Santa’s protégé, and a favorite of children and crowds, must have at least a lot of narcissistic traits 🙂
Hi HG,
Are empaths “chosen” by narcissists, primarily because they’re easier to control? I had thought it was the fuel but realising they can also get fuel off each other, maybe more so at times. I know it depends on the narcissist too.
Thank you 🙏
Yes.
Thanks HG. Wow. I’d kind of thought it was the caring attributes mainly but yes that makes sense in terms of narcs priorities. I have tangibly felt people seeming to like me quite quickly, I think as a result of this now I think about it further. Mind blown yet again …
HG do you also provide consultations for children? My niece said she loves Gaston from beauty and the beast 😭
Nothing to see there, entirely rational.
Hey Witch: Try this child on for size. My best friends daughter was a sweet kid. Her older brother different father is a successful independent publisher who teaches at Harvard and nice guy. Her father left the military and wouldn’t work, drank. He left her at 5 and moved to Mississippi where he has lived from with the home of the women he cheated on. He saw his daughter 2 weeks a year and sent 50$ a month as a low income factory worker. My best friend is a top Hollywood agent, she gave her daughter both a good loving and material life. She was austistic and went to a special school. But from age 14-20 she was a self harming, physically violent to my friend and their pet, didn’t want to drive, go to school or work, engaged in cat fishing’s boyfriend, demanded pot. Lots of hospitals and police. This year she sent so many detailed threats at killing her mother and then she smashed everything in the house and hurt the puppy… her threats were with a knife so detailed and bad that she coudnt go home and police arrested her daughter and charged her with felony criminal threat. Her father put his house up and paid bail. I got her off as a first time offender and relocated her to Mississippi with the dad. Voila! Her 6’3 dad with a no nonsense approach and no kids or dogs in the house has got her driving and looking for work. She doesn’t have therapy. But soon will. She can’t manipulate him. My friend is a definite Co-D. Her son says this. She was diagnosed BPD. And she is autistic. She is on meds for mood and depression but she is doing better in a high boundary environment.., for now. Interesting….
Ooh this is a treat outcome to this saga Contagious! Wowsers. Sometimes a change of environment is a huge help. ✊
One other thing and my fellow empaths listen up PLEASE! If someone threatens your life, do not second guess it, do not look at the past and say well he has not killed anyone or hurt me….. STOP It is not normal to threaten to kill. My first husband put a gun to my head and said “this will solve the problem. “ Then he said he would “ blow my head off like JFK “ using a hitman. He was rich. My cancer stricken father saw him and said “ I will take you with me.” My husband said “ keep your voice down this is a neighborhood.” My daddy said “ you aren’t a neighborhood man, you are a state penitentiary man!” I ran to local DV organizations, I took him to court on it. I saw doctors and contacted everyone I knew from ties to the Pentagon to the mafia. I exposed him. Good move. I hired a body guard. My second ex husband, 12 years in, we were together but living in separate countries because of psychological narc abuse mainly. I would not let him live with me in California for two years, I went there for two months a year. It was better. But while there he had a fight with his mother that lead to a psychotic break where he threatened death to me, his mom, cops, and his best friends. He was sectioned. I got divorced. Mental illness is real. Ask Rob Reiner… he is dead. Anyone threatens your life. Leave. Tell everyone public and private. It’s the best chance not only for you but for collateral damage! When someone shows you who they are, believe them!
Important reminder thank you Contagious! 🙏
Hi HG,
I hope you’re well.
re the video “my dog stepped on a bee” (amber heard) I thought it was fascinating that she thought she was the dog (as an extension of herself) when explaining that story. Is there a word for that phenomenon? I wondered if that’s a narcissist trying to “do” emotional empathy but failing… 🤔
I also find it spooky re narcissism glitches how vacant she looks at times (like TOW). what would a narcissist be thinking (or not) at a time like this?
Character Trait Acquisition.
Nothing.
Thank you on both. 🙏
Evening HG, as mentioned I’ve started on your Heard / Depp work. I wanted to ask you, in terms of the now known outcome of this, and it being pretty clear who Amber is, do you think social services in the US would be keeping an indirect eye on her and her child? It’s scary that such unbalanced people (also TOW) are in charge of these little lives. 🥴
I do not know what their criteria for involvement amount to.
Thanks HG.
I find it weird that there these obviously unbalanced and dangerous women who are in charge of children. Obviously the us and UK are democracy’s so can’t stop people having / looking after children. I just find it mind boggling when you look at how Johnny D fared that these little lives are in their hands. But SS probably can’t “go in” without good reason I’m guessing.
Hi Jade:
I can promise you they won’t unless something comes up Iike an unexplained injury. There are far too children in foster care and they are spread too thin. Only . being a narc which was contested by exerts at trial ( Nick Reiners will be schizophrenia) without physical harm to a child including neglect ie starving a child won’t get their involvement.
Yeh it seems that way Contagious. Just scary 😬 I guess she’ll have to get used to clearing up someone else’s poo being a parent though! #mepoo
Mr. Tudor,
Thank you for all the time and effort you put into “blog world”. Its very much appreciated!
Merry Christmas!
Hi HG,
I wanted to pop in on Christmas day to thank you for all you do here, it is very much appreciated. 🙏 I really value the (mindbogglingly) enormous amount of work you have made available and am realising just how much more there is to learn (I have just started watching Heard / Depp and can see how so many more angles are covered and even more knowledge is sinking in. My thirsty brain is very grateful!).
With much gratitude and for the space you have created here too and to other commenters for their help this year. 💗
All the best for 2026
Jade
Thank you and a Merry Christmas to you.
Dear Mr Tudor and lovelies,
Thank you so much for yet another year of exceptional creative content. There are constantly new things to learn from each and every video and post.
Thank you to all the lovelies for your wonderful, clever, exciting and extremely interesting input, never a dull moment hehe
Exist 🎼
“I would also like to thank my dad, my mum, my two step dads, for without them, it wouldn’t have been possible for me to be here haha “
Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and a safe and Happy New Year.
You are welcome.
Have a Holly Jolly Christmas!
Love this Bubbles! Happy Christmas all 🎄
Dear Jade,
Awww thank you gorgeous
Happy Christmas! Thank you!
Hi HG,
I’ve been working my way through your “lives” on YT. So good.. lots more questions answered. and so funny.
You mentioned that narcs don’t sleep with other people during the golden period but do in devaluation. Is that because the infatuation they feel is so strong during the GP? & If so are there exceptions to this.
Thank you 🙏
It is because the individual is painted white and therefore the narcissism sees no reason to engage in the devaluing behaviour or infidelity.
Thank you HG. 🙏 If the opportunity presented itself and they wouldn’t be found out – would they “go for it” or would they remain faithful because of painting the IPPS white at this stage?
The latter.
Okaaayy. Thanks HG. I am getting that the golden / bronze period is “genuine” from a narcissists viewpoint. 🙏
Two – you’re still the cat’s pajamas at that point.
Yes, I’m getting that WC. 😅 Crazy huh. Is it a tiny bit of ET to be glad there was a tiny bit of “genuine” even though it’s narcissist “genuine”? I think so…
Ps that’s another good phrase I haven’t heard in a while
#🐱 PJ’s!
Two, there’s so few opportunities to use that phrase – I had to go for it.
Haha 🤣
I like your style, WC! 👌
Next up for revival:
The bee’s knees.
Happy New Year Who Cares. Hope you’ve dug out by now.
NA – “the bee’s knees” – another classic.
On snow and and knees: if we get much more, it will be up to my own knees!
Take care & stay toasty!
I used “the bees knees” on the”stare thread” this week.
I noticed Leigh used “goodie gumdrops” recently too 😄
Hi WC,
Speaking of staying toasty …
Much of Australia is currently in the midst of an extreme heatwave. This week has been very warm.
The forecast is 43C (109F) in my city today.
A couple of days ago, the temperature reached 49C (120F) in a town in South Australia. It came close to the town’s all-time recorded high of 50C (122F).
We could use some of your snow at the moment to cool things down🌞🥵
* correction: the temperature reached 49C (120.2F) this week in Onslow, a town in Western Australia (WA).
Onslow experienced Australia’s all-time high of 50.7C (123.3F) in 2022.
(The highest temperature in South Australia (SA) this week was 48.2C (118.8F)).
Please send snow … ❄️❄️❄️☃️ or Snowballs … 🍹🍹🍹
WiserNow,
“(The highest temperature in South Australia (SA) this week was 48.2C (118.8F)).
Please send snow … ❄️❄️❄️☃️ or Snowballs … 🍹🍹🍹”
Sorry to disappoint – it’s rain now. Bucket loads though – so we definitely have some to spare!
Rain would be a godsend at the moment, WC.
The extreme heat has caused a spate of major fires across regions of Australia. Some of them are still raging out of control after several days.
Many country towns have been affected. One small town has been wiped out; its main store, school, and countless houses destroyed. A firefighting captain said his crew tried everything to control it and they couldn’t. He likened the fire to an atomic bomb going off. He was devastated and emotional while speaking on the news.
The firefighters, most of whom are volunteers, are amazing. In one instance, they managed to contain a fire that was raging over an area as big as a small city. The residents in the affected areas always have immense gratitude for the firefighters.
WN,
“The extreme heat has caused a spate of major fires across regions of Australia. Some of them are still raging out of control after several days.”
I am sorry to hear it’s that season in Australia currently.
The devastation of wildfire season in various locales around the world is definitely concerning and becoming so common – which is not a good thing. Our past summers have been similar to what you describe, in various parts of certain provinces.
Here, I have considered relocating to another province (toying with the idea only – as it presents legal hurdles I’d rather not take on at the moment) but even if I give it serious thought, I know I would have to consider which provinces have worse wildfire conditions in the summer. For example, I have a friend in Saskatchewan who is not immediately in danger of wildfires but, at the height of the fire season she has to double-mask just go outdoors for errands etc., because of the horrible air quality.
“The firefighters, most of whom are volunteers, are amazing. In one instance, they managed to contain a fire that was raging over an area as big as a small city. The residents in the affected areas always have immense gratitude for the firefighters.”
Similarly, I recall, on a train ride back from out west, a young male firefighter (fresh out of the bush) boarded our car and shared stories of his experiences with fellow passengers who were quite appreciative of what he and other brave individuals like him do on a daily basis.
Dearest WN,
I remember growing up with an antique ice box to keep food n drinks cold.
Air cons were for the extremely wealthy only and very rare. Slept outside on the lawn at night (with our deadly critters) to cool down and escape the hot house. We would drape wet towels over windows or chairs in front of electric fans hoping for the breeze to cool us just a little. We were able leave all our doors and windows open all night back then.
Sweat poured down our brows sitting in portable classrooms with no fans and we weren’t allowed access to tap water til recess time and even then it came out boiling hot.
We survived by going to the pool, beach or just under a sprinkler to keep cool.
Reports say we’re in a “heatwave” atm, I thought it was just our Aussie summer 🤣 however, I’d definitely welcome a Snowball 🍹 (used to love those).
Stay cool WN 😎
Hi Bubbles,
Thank you, I hope you stay cool too.
Yes, Australia has always had heatwaves and bushfires. It’s a normal part of summer. Some years are hotter than others. And without air-conditioning, it can be torturous on a 43-degree day.
I still think that climate change is making conditions worse when it comes to fires. The droughts are longer and there is a distinct lack of rain. Rainfall has decreased gradually and in general over the past two or three decades. Some areas have deluges of rain with flooding.
The ‘extremes’ are becoming more extreme, I think.
Years ago, where I am, when there was a cool change after a heatwave, there would be rain and it would bucket down. Nowadays, the cool changes do not include rain or just a light spattering. Or there is thunder and lightning with no rain at all, just dry lightning.
I remember the portable classrooms at school in the heat. I remember my hands would get sweaty and while writing, my pen or pencil would get slippery, making it more difficult to write neatly. My sweaty hands would leave moistened areas on the paper which caused the pen not to write properly or the ink would spread into blotchy stains.
I also remember sitting in class and feeling the sweat from the back of my knees trickle down my calves. It was normal. Or if sitting on certain kinds of chairs, if your bare skin was on the chair, you’d have to literally peel yourself off the chair after sitting still in class for a while.
As for driving in a hot car if it’s been parked in the sun … 🔥
When parking my car, I drive around searching for shade and if there’s a tree, I try to calculate where the shade will turn while my car is parked under it. The things you do.
Back when I was a kid, some still had the old-style cars with vinyl bench seats in the back that stretched across the whole width of the car. Sitting in the back of one of those cars on a hot day and sticking to the vinyl was fun (not!)
You have brought back some memories, Bubbles.
Yes, the beach or the local pool or the garden hose or sprinkler was how we cooled down. I remember some epic water fights at school too. There would be water pistols and water balloons and it was a free-for-all. Everyone would end up drenched, haha.
Dear WN,
You also just brought back more memories, the skin sticking to the chair from sweat …..ouch !
I remember turning on an outside tap that was scalding to touch only to wait forever for it to turn cold ?
How about running across the scorched burning hot sand barefoot at the beach, just to go for a swim. Coming home looking like lobsters from sun burn, then out came the tomatoes hehe
Fun memories, I really don’t know how we survived…. we were bred tough back then.
Thanks WN ☺️
Chatting with a typical narcissist. So many red flags. Though, it’s a funny video, it is sad as well, cause such situations indeed do happen.
https://youtu.be/wQtfeMQPtXY?si=5nt-Xm1JHk4BZchy
Haha, this is so funny! It didn’t go very well for him, did it…
Yes, it didnt)) Thomas was a hero here.
Regarding the murders of Rob and Michele Reiner, again, it’s a multifaceted and complex case. There are numerous aspects to draw from it. One aspect is the significance of it happening in relation to Hollywood.
I’m going to bring astrology into this comment because I think there is relevant symbolism to contemplate.
For those who roll their eyes and snigger at the mention of astrology, well, think of it like this…
When it comes to computer fantasy role-playing games, I’ve never been interested or invested in them. I don’t see them as magical or particularly engaging, and I would rather do other things. If you’ve seen the South Park episode about World of Warcraft, it’s very stereotypical but also hilarious. It pretty much sums up my take on the genre.
… but … because Sir Lord Tudor happens to like fantasy computer games, etc, (or does he … ?), I’m pretty sure the ‘Tudorites’ are going to line up behind the sign that says ‘Gaming is Great.’
Back to astrology…
In astrology, Hollywood is described as being ‘Neptunian.’ This is because the symbolism of Neptune (both positive and negative) reflects the qualities of Hollywood.
The positive traits of Neptune are: imagination and creativity; idealism and spirituality; intuition and insight; compassion and emotional sensitivity; boundarylessness and selflessness.
The negative traits (or shadow side) of Neptune are: escapism (through fantasy, illusion, drugs, media, or other addictions); illusions and deception (it is prone to projecting ideals, thereby it is easily fooled, and also self-deceiving); lack of boundaries (boundaries are porous or ungrounded, leading to exploitation or uncontrolled emotions); victimhood (becoming passive or feeling victimised due to the harshness of reality).
Due to the porous or ungrounded nature of Neptune, it is at risk of becoming lost in a dream world. This dream world can be illusory and comforting, although, due to a lack of structure or ‘worldly reality,’ it is prone to self-deception, escapism and addictions.
In terms of the Reiner murders, I think these aspects are interesting with regard to the backdrop of where they happened.
It is patronising and provocative of you to prejudge people´s responses. It also demonstrates something of a chip on your shoulder. Just because I have played tabletop role playing games and latterly computer based one does not mean that my readers are going to line up to declare gaming is great. They may enjoy it themselves irrespective of whether I do, they may find it boring or they may have no opinion either way never having played such games.
Making reference to my playing such games and then smearing the readers accordingly is unnecessary and also irrelevant with regard to your comments about astrology. This is because I do not think that the events in role playing games have any influence on what happens in my day to day existence. I engage in it because it is stimulating to me.
Whilst you are entitled to mock the genre by way of the expression of your opinion it is not a well-founded one.
You are mocking people enjoying a leisure pursuit whilst you believe that the positions of stars and planets somehow have a bearing on people´s behaviour and existence. It is eminently clear which pursuit merits ridicule.
Hi HG,
You are free to believe what you like, as am I.
As for ‘stimulation,’ it is interesting to me that you find it ‘stimulating’ to play role-playing games based on conflict and power. You call this focus on ‘power strategies’ and killing an ‘enemy’ a ‘leisure pursuit.’
Meanwhile, you describe a pursuit outside your sphere of interest and ‘stimulation’ as “meriting ridicule.”
And *you’re* the one espousing ‘perspectives.’ Obviously, your perspectives are limited.
Personally, I couldn’t care less whether you or anyone else spends their time on playing online war games.
The point I was making in my comment was that I would not have mentioned my personal beliefs about role-playing games at all if I had not received numerous insulting comments from a number of people who thought it was perfectly okay for them to jump on the ridicule bandwagon about astrology while slapping each other on the back while doing so.
Yes because once again as you did not seem to grasp it the first time (or chose to ignore it) I do not claim that role playing games impact on determining what happens in the world. You claim the movement of stars and planets somehow impact the behaviour of individuals millions of light years away. Therein lies the difference and the measure of ridicule.
Why do you assume that people ridiculing astrology are jumping on a bandwagon. Are they not simply expressing an opinion? Ah, of course, when it does not fit with yours, you dismiss it as bandwagoning.
Hi HG,
“I do not claim that role playing games impact on determining what happens in the world.”
If you were to watch a Star Wars movie, you would become immersed in the story, fully engrossed in the different characters. While watching, you would have opinions about what each character will or should do, or who should win, or who is the more deserving opponent, etc.
Your beliefs and opinions while watching a movie are real to you. The ‘effect’ the movie is having on you is a tangible and specific effect. This effect exists in reality.
Does this mean you actually fully believe the Star Wars story is real and true? Does the fact that you’re engrossed in the characters and each of the characters’ influence on each other mean you believe the characters actually exist? Does your being immersed in the story, resonating with the storyline and plot, mean that you believe the characters are actually flying somewhere in a spaceship in outer space?
My point here is that you can resonate with something that doesn’t factually exist. The way you resonate with this non-existent ‘something’ has an impact on your beliefs and actions.
For example, you may talk to other people who think the same way about Star Wars. The movie may make you more interested in researching space travel. It may influence you to write a post on the blog about Darth Vader’s narcissistic traits.
Therefore, something that doesn’t actually exist in a tangible sense will end up having an ‘impact on determining what happens in the world.’
“You claim the movement of stars and planets somehow impact the behaviour of individuals millions of light years away.”
As I’ve mentioned before, astrology is considered a ‘science’ or ‘study’ that evolved over thousands of years. Over that long evolutionary period, there were beliefs, symbolism, mythology, philosophies, theoretical arguments, etc, put forth by many who were considered scholars and ‘experts’ of their time.
All of this evolutionary knowledge has culminated in where humans are now in our current era.
Your statement … that “the movement of stars and planets somehow impact the behaviour of individuals millions of light years away” … sounds ludicrous on the face of it.
It sounds as ludicrous as me saying that you believe Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader are actually fighting each other somewhere in the galaxy.
There is a reason though, that Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader are iconic characters known the world over.
You (and others) are drawn to the symbolic meanings within Star Wars and strategic ‘war’ games. Likewise, I am drawn to the symbolic meanings within astrology.
I do not look at Darth Vader and think “ah this means tomorrow I will meet a mysterious person who will bring wealth into my life.”
Those who believe in astrology believe that the positioning of stars allow the prediction of what will happen in their lives. It is nonsense.
Forthwith, all astrology discussion will be removed.
It is not a risk, WiserNow… It’s a certainty.
But for many beautiful years I brought the dream into my reality and made my own life my escapism
Ah…there she is. Long time no see Laura. I see you haven’t changed your clothes. 😂
45 days. I realised I need some dressing down. I might hijack one of your looks, Starman.
Why can’t I like your comment? The like button is missing, Laura. You’re clever and it should be rewarded.
Hello HG,
I’m interested in better understanding a narcissist or psychopath’s views on cognitive dissonance.
Could you answer the following questions in relation to this, please?
1) With regard to cognitive dissonance, do you, or have you ever, experienced it?
2) If or when you have two conflicting or competing thoughts, what is your internal experience in relation to reconciling them?
3) When you use the term ’emotional thinking,’ are you referring to cognitive dissonance?
Hello WN,
1. No.
2. I would not necessarily describe them as conflicting, what I do is see an array of options and select the most logical one.
3. No I am not, although it is the case that an individual could experience cognitive dissonance as a consequence of emotional thinking – for instance, they know that being with a narcissist is not good for them, but they do it anyway. That is cognitive dissonance and is driven by emotional thinking.
Thank you for your answers, HG. They are thought-provoking.
I can see how a lack of empathy would result in you being unconcerned or unhesitant about harming another person, or say, damaging your relationship with someone.
Considering you seeing “an array of options” rather than having conflicting thoughts, I have another question, if that’s okay.
My question is about when you were a child. Before you did something like turn the clocks back while everyone was sleeping, or steal the cookies from your grandma’s cookie jar, did you think about the possible consequences if you happened to be caught in the act?
In other words, was the possibility of you being scolded or punished an option amongst an ‘array of options’?
You’re welcome.
I did.
Thanks, HG.
So, punishment wasn’t a deterrent and nor was the thought of other people being deceived.
It sounds like both of those things were actually ‘stimulating’ instead, even at a young age.
No, it was not, however it was a factor to be taken into consideration albeit not one which was afforded huge weight.
Mr. Tudor,
The way I’m understanding your response to WN is that you considered the outcomes of your actions even as a child.
Is that due to your psychopathy?
It is a product of my higher executive function and its interaction with my psychopathy and narcissism.
Hi HG: on Jades recommendation, I read Judith Herman’s book Trauma and Recovery. Judith is now 80! It’s comprehensive but one thing I read about a victim of trauma is they often adopt the perpetrators belief system. And they see the perpetrator as having total power.
1. As a child did you adopt your mother’s belief system?
2. Do you still?
3. As a child, did you see your mother having total power?
I know you don’t as an adult…
Thank you!
1. What do you mean by belief system? Politics? Religion? View of the neighbours?
2.
3. Most of the time.
Thank you for your answers, HG.
You are welcome.
(edited for confidentiality reasons)
Dear HG,
Please, can you clarify.
As you have maybe noticed, I’ve re-done a trait detector test. First time I did it one year ago. There have been some substantial changes in the outcome
1. Is it normally the case that traits % can change so much over a year?
2. What might be the reason for such change?
3. With a small gap between the empathic and narcissistic traits does it mean that under a stress, it won’t take much for me to start behaving like a narcissist? What can I do to increase my empathetic traits and reduce narcissistic ones?
I would appreciate your response.
1. No, it is not common for substantial changes.
2. The obvious answer is that noticeably different answers have been provided second time and there has been a different interaction between those answers. I think you mean to ask, what might prompt such differing answers – there are many different factors which can cause an individual to provide such substantially changed answers, for instance recovery from abuse, recovery from other external stressors, greater application of logic, the injection of stability into the person´s life and other besides.
3. Correct. Apply logic rather than be be driven by emotional responses.
Why do miss people who hurt us? Why can’t we just walk away?
Hello GP,
Is something going on in your life or it’s a general question?
Hi GP,
Many empaths have been trained and conditioned to tolerate, accept, even enjoy pain. We have been conditioned to believe that feeling it is what allows us to also feel the happy, good things. That, were it not for pain, we might be obsolete, our lives not mattering. We believe that without the person who brings the pain, and with it also the possibility of incredible happiness, we are dead inside. It is tied to our Emotional Thinking, it is part of our addiction. Our ET keeps reminding us of the possibility of the good, and tells us the bad wasn’t really that bad, in an effort to get us to go back. You are in the emotional sea when this is happening, it is hard. It gets easier on the other side, hang in there. Lean on us as you need to, many here have been through it, sometimes shared experiences can help.
Thank you for this, AV. Very helpful. 🙏
Because those who hurt us were once close to us. Those closest to us can hurt us most deeply.
I don’t miss people like that. They’re indifferent to me anymore. Sometimes I get a “taste” of feelings and states from the past. I miss how I felt back then – drunk with happiness or radiating energy. For a moment, there’s a “sucking.” It quickly passes.
But sometimes I REALLY miss the people and animals who have died. Those who are truly gone.
Mr. Tudor,
I found the murders of Rob and Michelle Reiner incredibly disturbing and upsetting. There’s obviously some serious history between Nick and his parents. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on why Nick Reiner did it.
*you’re (sorry HG 👨🏫)
Tzk, tzk, Jade. HG doesn’t forgive. Especially, 2nd time. You are doomed, that’s it.
“roasted empaths on an open fire” 🔥🌨️🌰😬
I’ve been listening to HGs lives and it makes me chuckle when he corrects the grammar there.
Yes, I remember three ones, he particularly doesn’t like:
– Your instead of you’re
– constantly instead of periodically
– if someone starts the sentence with “So” (which I do quite often, not intentionally 😅)
I think there are others as well, but I don’t recall.
Yes.. we’re learning more about narcissism and grammar here, Arya! Though I think I might have less excuse being English 😅
Hi HG:
Excellent work on Nick Reiner. First with the stats the on the video. Personally I think that he is not going to get off on the insanity defense.
First: my experience with drug addicts is juries aren’t sympathetic and if he killed them in a drug induced or alcohol rage it is not a defense.
Second, the standard is did he know right or wrong. So the man in Colorado who dressed up like the joker who shot up a theater. He was diagnosed schizophrenia and was convicted. The fact that Nick hid the weapon, blocked his windows, drove after the murders, checked in and paid for a hotel room, showered, changed into matching clothes, went to a gas station, calmly stood in line, paid for a drink…. The prosecution will have their own experts and his post murder behavior will be used like the joker murderer that he knew right from wrong which is why he covered his tracks.
Given his history of dropping out of school, never working, continuous use of drugs or lack of accountability, history of property damage, liar, manipulative, annd his clear case of entitlement…. And your video lol. I think he has had a long history of anti social personality disorder. His parents were manipulated and nothing they could do worked or ever work. They were useful until they weren’t. After he behaved badly at a party, they probably told him that he had to go to rehab or get out. His reaction: murder them.
This is my take. Plus I saw Being Charlie. Of course not about schizophrenia but rather Charlie feeling controlled, not listened to, and sadly the father in the movie says “ I listened to experts and not my son.” Sad. Shows how manipulated he was. I truly feel for the parents. And if Alan Jackson attacks them which he might, I think that won’t fly either.
Also you probably know this but the prosecutor is the same as Menendez brothers who he put away and kept away. DA was against parole but the family was not. Parole board did not let them out.
Also HG there is evidence that as a child he was diagnosed with ADHD. He would scream and scream and throw tantrums but parents would give into him.
Question:
1. Do parents often give in or tolerate psychopathy because they are fearful of what they suspect and knowing that it is a hopeless diagnosis?
2. How common is it for parents of drug addicts to blame themselves?
3. Do you think Nick is a psychopath?
4. A narcissist?
Finally… when you know you go. This is tough for a parent with a child like Nick… but does enmeshment ( babysitting an adult and paying all his bills) help?
5. Make it worse for the “ nicks?”
Obviously for the Reiners, we see how it can end for them.
Is it common for narcissism or psychopathy to blame drugs for their behavior? Oh… it’s the drugs not me.
In Nick Reiners case their was aggression before but the drugs made it worse.
Grr. Reply button won’t work so posting at the top..
“Jade,
It looks like me and Allison have different goals to fight for. So we have our own path to battle through.
A lot of snowflakes may bury and kill the Witcher for all his deeds. We just need to unite into a snowstorm. Work together.”
I like this Arya.. your sounding like Contagious, uniting us all.. and your little pink heart and message lol! Are you turning into a cuddly empath? 😉
No it’s a mask, Jade. I’m mirroring the narcissists. I’m infatuated.
I’m joking. Yes, I’m a cuddly empath somewhere deep inside, behind a skin, which grew over time from the wounds and hurt.❤️
I can see her emerging Arya! 😉🥰 Hugs to you. Hope you have a good holiday time too x
I forgot to hug you 🤗 have a good holidays, Jade.
I love the Witcher and the witches. In fact, I fantasize about him. The last series was mediocre and per my son it deviated too much from the books so he won’t watch another.
As for scars, I have many inside and out. When I accidentally dropped a pan of burning oil on my thighs that dumped on my foot, my ex narc was like “ oh you have beautiful skin, how horrible.” But I didn’t care, scars are not a mark of shame but of a battle fought thats healed…. I don’t mind scars and I am lucky as I have a high tolerance to pain.
I also love bears, always have since born…I carried Bear around as a child…. I believed he was real and kept the monsters away from under the bed… true! I gave both my children bears and told them the same. They are your protectors when you sleep. Btw my marine son kept his but it’s buried away in the closet. As for cuddles…yes, love them… especially my three Smelly frenchies…and sadly or maybe not single…. and well yes … unity….. I truly believe empathy is critically needed in this world. Perhaps now more than ever. There are two reasons I love this blog… HG as he provides the shield through education and 2. Empaths because they are the sword needed in this crazy world. I learn from both … here. Here:)
Hi Jade, I’m having similar issues so thought it would be funny to reply to you here. The comment about spotting our ET shooting upwards as being a way to help us spot the narcissist. I’m glad you found it helpful. Thank you for taking the time to let me know.
No problem TS. it is such a helpful sign, isn’t it? I found a comment of Arya’s interesting today too, about the “pull” towards a narcissist being quite tangible. I have felt that too, twice in romantic relationships that ended terribly! These “tells” of ET and the pull, are often good signs that a narcissist is lurking, I’m learning here. This is your narcissist education that hits the parts others don’t!
It is a strong sign Jade, I think so. The only issue is that your ET has to be low before you can then recognise a sharp rise. I can totally understand how unaware empaths escape one narcissist only to be quickly ensnared by another. If the ET doesn’t have chance to fall, then there is less of a sharp rise to recognise. Being careful to bring our ET down and keeping it down by avoiding cross pollution is key I think.
Very good point TS. All “suspected” but I think growing up and in my twenties I had a lot of Ns around me so it was a soup that I was in. Friends, direct and extended family, in the workplace. I realise now I have a glowing empath sign unfortunately. I’m learning to dim it when needed.
Meeting hubby and having someone genuinely have my back for the first time changed everything. Twenty years with him has healed a lot and helped me become much more logical and assertive. I’m very fortunate. ♥️
Dear Mr Tudor,
It’s been absolutely disgusting watching our self-absorbed treacherous evil narcissistic Aust PM and his like minded minion senators blatantly and openly lie to the Australian public regarding the horrific terror attack at Bondi Beach. They are all guilty as charged for allowing this to happen. Their blame shifting, denying accountability and apathy are overwhelming. Now they blame guns, WTH ? All fake projection! They are all guilty as charged and all have blood on their hands This govt has failed to protect its people. Let it be known, everyday Aussies are NOT happy! This has had a massive impact on true blue Aussies.
We call for a dissolution of government !
And so it begins!
What say you Mr Tudor ?
Hi Bubbles,
I’ve been thinking about you, AA & WN. Its such a tragedy. Its incredibly sad that we have to live in fear. They were just trying to celebrate the holiday. I hope you’re all well.
Dearest Leigh,
Thank you lovely. Bondi Beach is the most famous iconic beach in Australia, visited by millions of locals and tourists each year. Apart from our local hero, (ironically a Muslim) Ahmed al-Ahmed who single handedly disarmed one of the terrorists, our local life savers and other saviours automatically risked their lives to help. Bloody brilliant!
The thing is, we shouldn’t “have to live in fear” if our current corrupt despicable politicians did their bloody overpaid jobs to protect its citizens. This father and son were on the ASIO watch list for years and were linked to a terrorist cell and underwent ISIS training in the Phillipines, what the hell ?
Terrorism, extremists, ISIS brides and Islamic ideology have absolutely no place in the west. It’s a cancer that spreads. They can shove it up their Khyber Pass and it can stay there.
We are well thank you, however, this has hit everyone hard (we have friends who live close by to Bondi Beach). It has awakened the rest of the world, all thanks to our two faced hypocritical politicians. Guns are not the problem, it’s the people who are pulling the trigger!
Our hearts are heavy for all the victims, survivors, family and friends.
Dear Bubbles… well well said
Dear Contagious,
Thank you
We’ve all had enough
Dear Contagious,
Our Aust PM and his lieutenants are in full narcissist mode atm. Smirking, no emotion, lying, evading questions, vagueness, word salad, deflection, denial, umming n ahing, blameshifitng big time, cutting off the discussion, can’t bring themselves to say the actual words of what’s really going on and call it for what it really is because it would admit guilt and MIA when it’s most important, the list goes on
What a performance!
Hi Bubbles,
With regard to your comments about Australia’s Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, and his government, you are entitled to your opinions, however, I do not agree.
The current Australian government is being roundly blamed for the Bondi shooting attack and for ‘allowing’ antisemitism. This is simply not true and is a case, I think, of scapegoating.
The first person off the rank that indulged in this myopic and hypocritical blaming of the Australian government was Benjamin Netanyahu. As if he is innocent and the poster child of peaceful tolerance … ??
The way I have seen things unfold is that the Australian PM and the Premier of New South Wales (NSW) have moved swiftly to discuss ways that cultural divisions and gun ownership can and should be addressed. They have discussed their concerns openly in media announcements and press conferences. There has been community engagement; and Jewish community leaders have been given a platform to voice their concerns and criticisms of the government.
There has been no smirking or deflection as far as I have seen. Instead, the PM has been actively and solemnly involved in the community, attending memorials, funerals and tributes to those killed or injured.
The things that I think have contributed and culminated in the Bondi attack have been ongoing protests and demonstrations in Sydney and elsewhere – occurring on a weekly basis at times – calling for the end of oppressive actions against Palestinians in Gaza. These protests have been organised by Australian activist groups.
I think these protests were generally peaceful and well-intentioned, however, they also stoked divisiveness and aggressiveness in the community and created militant beliefs in some.
Also, it is known in social studies that public protests and public communal discourse of opposing opinions creates escalating angry and confrontational disputes. Public venting of beliefs leads to escalating violence among the public rather than peaceful resolution.
The NSW government – led by Premier Chris Minns – grappled on numerous occasions over the past year with the dilemma of whether to allow peaceful protests (calling for the end of Israel’s oppression of Palestine).
On the one hand, there is the aspect of allowing protests in the name of ‘free and democratic speech,’ and on the other hand there is the aspect of restricting or disallowing such protests for the sake of public safety; police and security resources and organisation; as well as the prevention of unproductive delays and disruptions on busy roads and city streets.
Bubbles,
There are various factors involved with regard to the Bondi shooting attack. I don’t believe it’s helpful or rational to place all the ‘blame’ on the current Australian government.
Dearest Bubbles,
I agree. We shouldn’t have to live in fear. But I don’t know I agree that all of Islam are pure evil. I do believe they have good people in their communities as well. The man who stopped the one shooter was Islamic/Muslim. I think its extremists that are doing these things and I do agree that these extremists need to be stopped.
I saw the video of the man who stopped the one gumman. He was incredibly brave.
I saw the terror plot on LA was thwarted. I also saw it was a barely known group that organized it.
Its been a sad and scary couple of days for sure.
Dear WN,
Many thanks for your comment lovely.
I respectfully respect your right to disagree
Albo is a sleeze bag hating Jew and pro Palestinian supporter, always has been (him wearing the Kippah was an huge insult). He and his Govt have done nothing to stop these continuous Jewish incited weekly marches since Oct 7th, allowing the burning of the Australian flag, the wearing of keffiyeh scarfs, allowing photos of the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and allowing writing abolish Australia on the bridge along with all these protestors supporting the Muslim Brotherhood terrorists who control Gaza and its people. There have been enormous confirmed false reports and pictures about Gaza. Millions and millions of dollars in cash and aid have been sent, ceasefire has been settled and still, the hate and protests continue. Why ?
If it isn’t our Govt’s responsibility to stop this hate, then whose is it ?
The only confirmation is a Royal Commission, which our weasel PM is petrified of. His vehement denial of a Royal Commission proves his guilt. He is a full blown narcissist and I don’t believe one word that comes out of his narcissistic lying thin lips. He was conspicuous by his absence because he knew he stuffed up. Penny Wong is just as bad, their lying is unbelievable! Let’s not also forget Faruqi’s fake attendance, what a hypocrite !
This has never been and is not Australia’s problem, we need to butt out entirely and concentrate on our own problems because right now, we have plenty of our own.
.
Hi Bubbles,
You obviously have some very strong opinions about this.
“This has never been and is not Australia’s problem … ”
To an extent, I agree that the conflict in Gaza over the past two years happened far from Australia and Australian people on the whole have been removed from it and have their own home-based problems.
As the conflict in Gaza wore on and became increasingly oppressive to Palestinians, the rest of the world could not stand by and turn a blind eye. Australia was one of numerous countries that voiced its disapproval of Israel.
Disapproval of Israel’s actions in Gaza over the past year is not the same thing as being antisemitic. These are two separate things. To conflate them inevitably inflames long-running religious hatreds. These ancient religious hatreds have spilled into Australia.
The Bondi attack, while horrific and daunting, is a rare event for Australia, thank goodness.
I still believe that there are various factors involved and it’s more complicated than placing all blame on the current government.
We shall have to agree to disagree on this subject, Bubbles.
Dearest WN,
Many thanks for your reply lovely
Regardless of our different perceptions, it’s always still a pleasure
Wishing you a very Happy New Year and all the best for 2026. 🥳
Dear Bubbles,
Thank you very much for your kind message, it’s much appreciated.
We are allowed to have different perceptions and opinions, it spices things up and makes life more tasty! 😉😄
It’s always a pleasure to ‘talk’ with you as well.
Happy New Year to you and Mr Bubbles and hope 2026 is happy, healthy, safe and joyful for you 🥳😘🥂🎉
Dear Leigh,
Paris have now cancelled the city’s iconic New Year concert on the Champs-Élysées and are on high security alert.
I’ve heard Christmas markets have also been affected, putting up bollards and more security to keep evil out …. Answer, get rid of the problem !!!!! Simple !!!!
In the Hadith and Quran it is written, we are all currently experiencing jihad ! Close all Islamic centres, kick out all the muftis and ayatollahs and those related to them.
Islam is pure evil, lead by psychopaths, it is destroying our western culture and values.
I’m so sorry Bubbles. It’s so sad. ❤️ Sending my love to you and your loved ones. I’ve been to Bondi, it’s a beautiful place.
It’s the extremists in any religion that terrorise unfortunately. Islam preaches peace but it’s corrupted and twisted in the wrong hands, as has happened with other religions for millennia. I think mental health and the current polarization adds layers to these complex situations.
Dear Jade,
Thank you kindly Jade.
The west have had huge problems inflicted on them by their governments, it now needs to be urgently addressed and solved for the safety and concerns for everyone’s sake.
Hi Jade, Leigh and Bubbles,
What happened at Bondi was (and still is) a senseless tragedy. The aftermath is currently unfolding. The TV news continues to report new details each day. The funerals of those who were murdered are currently taking place.
When a horrific event like this happens in your own usually peaceful and tolerant country, it seems even more surreal. It’s very disturbing and uncharacteristic of Australia in general.
Jade,
What you have said about the layers of these complex situations is relevant. There are many layers, and when you see the situation unfolding in detail on an hourly basis on the news, it becomes apparent that it’s a multifaceted tragedy. It affects everyone in some way, shape or form. It is very shocking and sad. It is tragic because it was totally unnecessary.
One news story I listened to gave some background information about the younger gunman. He is a 24 year old bricklayer whose mother is Italian and father is Pakistani. Regarding religion, I heard he was born a Christian. It appears that after his parents divorced (it’s unclear when that occurred), his father converted to Islam. He remained living with his father and apparently converted to Islam along with his father. Both men became ‘radicalised,’ to use the term often employed to describe ‘extremists’ in such events.
To veer from the topic slightly…
By coincidence, on the day I was listening to the news on TV about the shootings, I was also reading and listening to information about Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD). This is a personality disorder that is different from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). OCD is a distressing ego dystonic ‘episodic’ condition with markedly different symptoms. By contrast, OCPD is a pervasive and innate pattern of behaviour.
While listening to the information about OCPD, it occurred to me that the personality traits of someone with OCPD closely match the traits of a person who is devoutly religious.
For example, the main traits of OCPD include:
Rigidity & Stubbornness: Inflexible and stubborn, especially with rules and procedures;
Perfectionism: Striving for flawlessness to the point of task incompletion.
Preoccupation with Order: Overly focused on details, rules, lists, schedules, missing the main point.
Excessive Work: Devotion to work/productivity, excluding hobbies or friendships.
Inflexible Morality: Overly strict about ethics, morality, or values.
Hoarding: Unable to discard worthless or worn-out items.
Reluctance to Delegate: Difficulty assigning tasks unless others follow exact instructions.
Miserly Spending: Hoarding money for future catastrophes, affecting self/others.
Low Emotional Affect; Emotionally cold and lacking in emotional empathy.
OCPD is ego synotic, which means that a person with this disorder sees their traits as desirable and right. This aspect means the person feels internally justified regarding their traits. They are unlikely to have insight or awareness about their traits being problematic or irrational.
When it comes to:
– a rigid adherence to external rules and procedures;
– a righteous and inflexible attitude regarding their own views on morality and ethics;
– a preoccupation and devotion to rules, schedules and details, to the detriment of relationships and enjoyable activities;
– low or cold emotional affect and little emotional empathy,
… it made me think that a dogmatic adherence to religious beliefs is very much like the manifestation of Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.
“It’s the extremists in any religion that terrorise unfortunately. Islam preaches peace but it’s corrupted and twisted in the wrong hands, as has happened with other religions for millennia.”
Agree, Jade.
Hi Leigh, Bubbles, WN and Arya,
I agree. Interesting point about OCOD, WN. it would be interesting to hear HGs thoughts on this too. I guess it would complete some of the picture to understand what their personalities were like before radicalisation too.
* should read: OCPD is ego syntonic … *
Dear Jade,
Exactly, that’s why I highlighted terrorists, extremists etc.
Apparently this father and son were supposedly “peaceful” until they weren’t.
You can thank the governments for our current polarisation, they instigated it without our permission.
Look after your people and your country , it’s not that difficult! Be like Poland !
Further to my comment about the Bondi shooting attack, there are several details I would like to add and amend.
Soon after the shooting, there were numerous news reports in the mainstream media stating various details that were not totally factual.
Now, after more than a week, factual information regarding the attack is becoming apparent. Verified investigations have now had time to be established.
A correction: the younger gunman’s father was from India and not Pakistan. The father’s nationality has been confirmed and verified in news reports.
Also, the older man was separated from his wife rather than divorced. It appears that the father and mother were still living in the same house with their children. In early 2024, the father transferred his share of ownership in the property to his wife.
Sources who worked with the younger man said the son was closer to his father than his mother. A colleague who worked with the son on a daily basis recounts him saying he “wanted to be remembered.”
The son was also a member of a hunting club. This club advertises itself as having a focus on education and conservation of natural habitats. It says its vision is to promote acceptance of hunting as a noble sport and to make hunting accessible for everyone.
Just goes to show that the ‘evidence’ regarding events like this can be a moving feast. It takes time to establish facts. Until the facts are verified, there is speculation, gossip, judgement and politicisation.
I think people in general fill the gaps in their knowledge with assumptions and biases.
“Just goes to show that the ‘evidence’ regarding events like this can be a moving feast. It takes time to establish facts.”
Good point ☝️ WN.
Thank you for the updates, WN. I really appreciate yours and Bubbles comments on this. Its because of your comments that I decide to do my own research and learn something in the process.
Hi Jade and Leigh,
Thank you for your comments.
I think when it all boils down to the very essence of things, personality and the personal traits of the individual who chooses to commit a horrible act are the main factor.
As you know, there were two gunmen – a father and son. The father was shot and killed by police at the scene.
The son was shot in the stomach at the scene but was not killed. He was taken to hospital where he was placed in an induced coma. When he woke from the coma after about 48 hours, he was charged with 59 offences over the attack. He has since been transferred from the hospital to a maximum security prison. This transfer took place under a very high police and security guard.
Considering that the son is still alive, I have contemplated whether it would have been better or worse if he had been killed at the scene instead.
Australian taxpayers are now paying for his hospitalisation, security guard, and incarceration. Resources that could be better utilised are being wasted on the hateful and heinous dweeb.
On the other hand, I have also thought that he is now facing the Western consequences of his actions; that is, a criminal trial and life in prison.
He was born and lived in a Western society based on Christian values. He enjoyed and benefitted from living in such a society. He is going to experience the full effect of living in such a society. He is now a criminal and will experience Australia’s justice system.
He’s not a martyr, he’s a felon. He won’t be going to heaven, he’ll be incarcerated for life. He won’t be met with 17 virgins; instead, he will be the virgin on a daily basis for 17 lustful fellow inmates. He won’t be remembered for his actions, he will be remembered as a disgrace and failure. And he did this to himself.
It’s poetic justice that he remained alive.
“I think when it all boils down to the very essence of things, personality and the personal traits of the individual who chooses to commit a horrible act are the main factor.”
I agree WN ☝️
Thanks, Jade.
Hi HG,
A suggestion for topics – time permitting would you be able to do some work on other personality disorders like OCPD and ODD where there could be an overlap with npd?
Thank you 🙏
Note made.
Hello HG and Jade,
Great idea, Jade!
HG,
I agree with Jade that it would be very interesting if you could look into OCPD and/or other disorders, if possible and if time allows.
From what I have experienced in my own family and from the information I have read, there are some similar and overlapping traits and behaviours between NPD and OCPD.
For a start, both disorders are ego syntonic and based on a need for control.
Thank you HG (and WN). 🙏
Dear WN,
I love your attention to detail !
Mainstream media do not report the truth. I was involved with the media recently and they distorted the news report to meet their “paid off” agenda. I rang and reported what actually happened, as I was there. They did not care ! They wanted sensationalism!
In relation to the Bondi Massacre, most of the articles I’ve read are using the word “alleged”, presumably for pre trial purposes and legalities.
Well done.
Always a pleasure WN.
Thank you, Bubbles, that’s kind of you.
I know what you mean about mainstream media and sensationalism. Along with mainstream media, there’s also social media now. There are many sources, video clips, eyewitness accounts and angles, etc, in relation to news reports. There’s so much information about any one event that it’s difficult to keep up.
It helps to have a few trusted news sources. Even then, it also helps to compare the trustworthy sources with each other.
The word ‘alleged’ seems pointless (and insulting to victims too) when there is actual, indisputable video evidence of a perpetrator committing an act.
I guess from a legal perspective it’s safer to err on the side of caution anyway, even when the literal meaning of the word ‘alleged’ in a particular context doesn’t apply.
Dear Leigh,
Well done for researching 😉
Dear Leigh,
Latest update
FBI foils New Year’s Eve terror plot across Southern California by an extremist group to explode at two targeted logistic centres in Los Angeles
Hi Bubbles: Live here. Many are staying in…. But wishing you and the Mr, a happy new year!
Dearest Contagious,
Thank you so kindly lovely one
Mr Bubbles and I are “staying in” and recharging our batteries as we had a very hectic and busy Christmas with a full house. January is busy with birthdays and then our daughter is “tying the knot”. Never a dull moment in the Bubble’s household hehe
Wishing you and your family a very Happy New Year and may 2026 be a positive year in relation to health, happiness and personal growth.
Congratulations to your daughter on her upcoming nuptials, Bubbles! That’s wonderful news!
Happy New Year to you and yours!
Dear Leigh,
Many thanks for your kind wishes Leigh. Sorry, I’m trying to catch up and just saw your lovely sentiment.
We seriously thought we’d never get rid of her 🤣
Actually, we’re very close, we speak daily and she pops in every other day. I think she misses my home cooking or it could be she has all her deliveries sent to our home, more like she’s checking her Jurassic aged parents from falling for scammers 🤣
Hi Bubbles,
It sounds like you have a lovely relationship with your daughter.
The scammers are out in full force! My daughter just fell for a scam. Oy vey!
I hope the wedding plans are going well!
I agree.. I was thinking that about you and your daughter too Bubbles ❤️
Dear Leigh,
We are the exact opposite to what I had with my mum. I’m also close to our eldest son as well. I was close with our youngest until he was ensnared by the narc.
Oh no, so sorry to hear that about your daughter. I hope it wasn’t too horrendous.
All is coasting along beautifully regarding the wedding, thankyou lovely.
It’s not your normal typical wedding, but that’s what makes it so fabulous.
Sorry to hear about your daughter, Leigh. I hoped she’s ok. ❤️
Dearest Bubbles & Jade,
She noticed it pretty quickly and shut it down immediately. She was able to get all her money back too. These scammers are like leeches!
I know what you mean, Bubbles. I have wonderful relationship with my daughter as well and its nothing like the relationship I have with my mom.
Dear two,
Awww, you’re so sweet, thank you two
Phew Leigh! 😅 That’s good.
Dear Leigh,
Thank goodness!
She was very fortunate and lucky.
Well done to your very clever daughter and am so happy to hear you have a great bond with her as well. We are truly blessed.
I agree, Bubbles. We are truly blessed!
“Bear in mind, attending a cemetery alone provides opportunities for picking up those grieving widows/widowers, happy hunting.”
Thanks for this answer to another commenter HG and for the question ChaCha. Very true.
Would a narcissist who liked to “act religious, not remarry etc” focus on non intimate sources, primary or secondary… ?
Not necessarily, just because they show a particular image does not mean that they follow that image, after all, the Narcissist´s Conditional Asterisk applies.
I am popping this at the top, Contagious as my comment boxes are glitching…
“Oh and many articles suggest BPD is a failed narcissist. HG has his own take on BPD but I have often read this elsewhere. They are both in the DSM cluster B…..”
Yes, I learnt HGs take on BPD a few years ago. I work with people with BPD and also some with CPTSD diagnosis’ and kept what HG said in mind. I agree with HG from what I’ve seen. One person requested CPTSD was their diagnosis rather than BPD which was agreed upon by their psychiatrist. Funnily enough the one person I think fell into the other category (NPD) wasn’t diagnosed with either
Happy holidays Jade! I have often felt and said HG should be required reading in every psychology school. Out of interest I am reading 2025 ICM. They give descriptions versus “ labeling.” HG is better at it. The issue with BPD is their entitlement, manipulation and rages. They also put their ability to “ feel happy” on others as they feel empty inside or highly insecure. Miserable really. When raging they are often physically and verbally abusive BUT they do respond to DBT well. The diagnosis can disappear and as they age it can disappear. Narcs do not. So while I agree with HG, I have felt Cluster B is a kaleidoscope of a personality. But I see BPD as like a narc but maybe a Picasso blue phase. I say blue as they tend to self harm and sadly Iike 11% die from suicide unlike narc. And they appear to have some although compromised empathy.
Happy Holidays Contagious!
Interesting.. I think I’ve read that the ICM is better than the DSM but yes either one could do with working with HG, for sure. in my little snapshot of people I see through work it’s felt like it’s become clear to me that it’s likely CPTSD rather than BPD most of the time but I’m not a psychologist or psychiatrist. I see people for a short time so I think narcissist indicators would take longer to assess and maybe harder to spot.
Hi again Contagious, I have also wondered about BPD and the crossover with HSPs (contagions?) who are traumatised…
Hello Contagious and Jade
“I have often felt and said HG should be required reading in every psychology school.”
I completely agree with you, Contagious.
If HG’s work were included in the training curricula for psychology, psychotherapy, and of course psychiatry, we could be confident that a person who has been subjected to emotional, physical, or sexualized abuse by a narcissist, and who comes to such a well-trained professional, would encounter understanding rather than judgment — and would receive the most professional and effective help possible.
But I would go even further. Studying HG’s work helps me not only in my work with empaths, but also in my work with narcissists (they are not infrequent visitors in my practice), and, more broadly, in my work with people in general.
Regarding the diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder, I have fairly extensive experience working with such patients. And they are all different — just as patients with CPTSD are different. Some are very empathic, others not at all. I have already written about this to AA: sometimes, in interpersonal interactions, it can actually be more difficult than dealing with a narcissist, due to the unpredictability of emotional rage episodes, extreme sensitivity, and impulsivity.
A narcissist has never threatened me with suicide. A close friend of mine did so many times. I tried to help her as best I could, but at that time I did not know she had BPD, and I did not even imagine that I would become a psychiatrist — I was drawn to a different field of medicine back then. What is frightening is that these are not empty words: eventually, she was hospitalized in a psychiatric facility.
You mentioned this, Contagious, and I would emphasize that what makes the diagnosis of BPD particularly frightening is the presence of self-harming behavior. Even when it is used as a way to shift from emotional pain to physical pain, it still carries a real threat to life. Patients with BPD have a very high suicide risk.
DBT truly helps them — to such an extent that many who complete a six-month group therapy program often no longer meet the criteria for the disorder afterward. Each story is unique, and everyone is very different, no matter how much the DSM tries to impose labels.
On the other hand, in ICD-11 the diagnosis of BPD — more precisely, Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder — has disappeared, and in some ways this is the right decision. In practice, a person often presents with features of several personality disorders at once; in other words, they are mosaic.
Hi Contagious and Josephina,
Thanks for this Josephina. I was annoyed at work when I reported someone at risk of suicide to be told “that’s just a symptom of BPD”. Yes.. I know that it is a symptom, but its not “just” and doesn’t lessen the risk, as you rightly point out, Josephina. I think maybe EUPD/BPD and CPTSD will all be looked at again properly in years to come.. hopefully with HGs knowledge for sure. As you said, everyone presents differently.. like with NPD.
Ps I have read some of Judith Lewis Herman’s work, very useful.
Josephina: I am lucky you are a blogger. Thank you! You were very good at taking a complex topic and explaining it to me, a layperson. If I ever needed a psychiatrist, I would want someone like you;)
Thank you, Contagious, I’m very pleased!
You are a very interesting conversationalist, and for someone who is not directly connected with psychiatry (if I remember correctly, you are a lawyer?), you have a very good understanding of the subject!!!
Josephina,
Mosaic indeed. And I suspect that often, in the case of an empath who is involved with a narcissist, the narcissist may have far more influence in the situation than they should have, possibly causing a different diagnosis than might be if the narcissist were not involved.
Hello Josephina: Thank you! I have read that Cluster B should just be that as the dramatic and erratic. Her daughter is 20 but it’s been 7 years of cutting, suicide attempts, violence and property damage and the worst verbal abuse imagined. In her relationships there has been cat fishing and stalking. She is selfish. Her empathy is zero when in rage. Misty she mutilates herself. BUT the trigger was going to school, work, drive or not giving her what she wanted. Her arrest for a felony and two nights in jail helped as did her relocation. I got the charges dismissed. She is doing better with a her dad out of state with hard boundaries and driving now and looking for work. No cops, no hospitals and in therapy ( although she always has been in therapy and medicated). She has DBT:) fingers crossed.
By the way, Contagious, have you read the book “Trauma and Recovery” by Judith Lewis Herman? It’s very interesting. Judith is the author who introduced the term Complex PTSD.
Thank you Josephine! No, and I will buy it. X
There is a very powerful excursion into the history of trauma there… damn, even Freud was at its origins, but unfortunately he betrayed his patients under the pressure of the medical community of that time.
HG happy holidays:
Must admit having a few weeks ago having got my best friends felony charge dropped after texting grotesque death threats to her mom, this Nick Reiner murder is getting to me. First, I got her off as a first time offender of felony criminal threat, second she moved to Mississippi with her dad where she is doing better. She is BPD and autistic and usually self harms and threatens suicide usually to get her way…. But second, my ex threatened my life to a point the police offered support and help here in California and were concerned about any visits to the UK. BTW what a country! What a police force! Think LA or NYC would make that call? After my ex psychotic break of paranoid delusions of all these affairs I was having that were false and crazy, I wanted a divorce. I did go to the UK but was cautioned by my son that “ mental illness is real mom. I love you, please don’t see him.” TBH I was afraid. Made no contact but out of honor dropped his things off at a location where I they knew him and he could get it.
I wanted to end our marriage on a positive note, on a friendship. When I say friendship that doesn’t mean you stay in touch. It could be ten years but if you see each other it’s friendly. I gave closure to myself. My ex is a middle lower narc. When in high school he spent two years in a mental hospital outcare. He told me it was because his crazy mother never educated him and isolated him from the world. Now I wonder. If no illness, wouldn’t they kick him out? Plus he spoke of his high powered job that was international and eager to have him live here and pay him from London. He lied and never told me he lived unemployed with his mother for 7 years like a hermit before meeting me. When I found out, he claimed he had a heart attack at 38 from work stress. Only last year I learned his heart attack occurred unemployed fighting with his crazy mum. Plus his father bio had one at 42. Genetic. But I feel I dodged a bullet now. When death threats occurred, I ended it. I had already refused to live with him for two years due to his verbal abuse. I tried to manage it. Plus my son left the marines and I knew my son would pummel him so I protected my son.
From these two close personal experiences…. If someone threatens you, especially repeatedly even if no violence but usually they smash your property or in my case dump water on your head…. Run. Protect yourself. Like my son said mental illness is no joke. The Reiners proved that and I am glad to have helped move her daughter to Mississippi. There has already been one hospitalization since. 5150. And for me, the moment death threats occurred… goodbye. No longer even wanted to manage him.
Also I LOVE this that I heard on Rob Reiner… why pity them, they spend every waking moment putting themselves. So true.
Oh HG! I forgot to add. The reason I wrote this to you was to thank you for the excellent analysis of Nick Reiner! I have watched many… you are the best. I imagine that you are asked about high profile cases and to do profiling. You are amazing. Happy holidays! I look forward to your continued input on the case as it will drag on. Also I am ready to buy any new books, and any new additions to the Knowledge Vault….
Hi Contagious,
Holy shit, what a crazy story! Your ex was a middle lesser narc. Thank God you got away from him, well done. Middle lessers are crazy and can be dangerous. I think you also mentioned somewhere that your ex–mother-in-law was totally crazy too. Good riddance. I can relate.
Given your name, are you a majority contagion empath?
Also, it’s very nice of you to help your best friend with the felony charge. Sounds like she has a complicated relationship with her mother. Do you work in law enforcement or the judicial system? I think tough empaths can definitely do a lot of good within those fields. You gotta be made out of steel for certain situations, though.
Hi Amusedempath: I don’t know if my middle lesser or his mother were able to kill but I ASSUMED so given their behaviors. Never second guess. Protect! Swords up! I share my experiences to help others. I am an attorney and was a DA and offered a job at the US Attorneys office. I am majority contagian but very close to carrier. My cadres are martyr which I feel is my religion and the way I expend myself to help others and causes as I a good at boundaries elsewise but? I am also a bit geyser and Super but small percents. I identify with contagian as I know how others feel. And my dreams. I am a highly lucid dreamer. Any knowledge I have on narcissism or psychopathy is either lived or through HG. I have consulted, bought everything and been around 10 years I think? Plus this community like yourself attracts bright educated people who help me too! Happy New Year! All the best to you!
One more thing… I sent it to HG. There’s a man with a blog called jumpsuitpablo who discusses like in a California prison. He says:
1. The new society Nick joined won’t care about him murdering his family or seniors or women. Most would like to kill their partners who aren’t taking their calls or sending 20$ and the elderly? They would kill their partners who 71 prison guard in a heartbeat for taking their contraband.
2. They do look at if the new guy is a threat. Fear and violence run this society. They look at if the guy is big, strong, dangerous? Nick is a big guy 6’3” and 230. He called Nick as a bag of vanilla pudding but they will take notice that he has the ability to stab you to death with a knife. That will be noticed. Gangs will consider it. Many couldn’t stab a 71 year old women asleep in bed. But…
3. Money! They will extort you by the violent threatening people….. but if no money and broke in prison. He is screwed. He will owe weight. Nick needs to paid for protection in a max prison in CA. Whites, blacks and Hispanics. The whites probably won’t unless money. They may use him as a crash test dummy as a rich bitch. There is no one. Everything is survival. He could be a cockroach at bottom of the hierarchy. He gets in a cell with a guy with drugs, a gun, a cellphone who bought this stuff. If busted, Nick the cockroach says it’s his. If agreed, don’t beat him up, stab him or rape him. He’s my scapegoat. This is how he can survive.
But the real downfall will be he was a drug addict. No one gives a shit. The gangs exploit it. They don’t look at those types as weak minded who can’t beat it. You can get drugs in prison . It’s all over the prisons. If money, he will be doing drugs galore. Prices are high! I don’t agree that Nick won’t have money, he wil have money for drugs. Pot in chapstick is 50$. If no money, but desire….Nick will sell his ass and risky things …. Prisoners get strung out, make promises to the gang leaders, and they don’t pay up. Tortured or DEAD.
There’s no tv, no cell, no stimuli in prison. Quality of life sucks. Boredom is rampant.
This is why life without parole here in CA prison is not the same as a mental institute.
Dr Robert Hare spoke of the high number of psychopaths in prison. But even among psychopaths… Nick v the gang leaders? Ummmm… he most likely will die unless well funded. This guy gives him 5 years tops
Also California has been sued by the federal government for overcrowding and inhumane conditions. Twin Towers is the worst of the worst. Nick is wearing a blue vest for suicide watch. They won’t even let you wear underwear. This housing is disgusting. Many regular go in and out of “S watch. “ The prison does concern itself with liability. You are in a room with zero privacy at all times. It’s all windows. No bedsheets. You might get a mattress more like a yoga mat. No toilet. It’s freezing. It’s lit 24/7. It’s in the main area for staff. Staff makes sure you are alive. Your dignity is gone. Animal in the zoo. They carve a hole in the ground for a toilet. They strip search you but they search the hole for drugs to prevent death in case you brought pills to kill you. Guards come by every 15 minutes to check on you even if asleep. Stress and torture.