Surely That Is The End, Yes?

 surely-thats

“I have not heard from him in a month, he has moved on hasn’t he?”

“I exposed what she is like to all of her family, she won’t be contacting me again that’s for sure.”

“I told him I know what he is and he disappeared so I doubt I will hear from him again.”

“He is with somebody else already so I guess he won’t want me again will he?”

“I told him what I thought of him and he just backed off. He won’t hoover me will he?”

“He came crying back to me and I gave him short shrift. I doubt he will bother again.”

Wrong.

There are many different scenarios and outcomes involving our kind where the victim considers that our kind will not bother with them again post discard or post escape. The victim thinks that a period of total silence, the involvement of the narcissist with a new victim, the manner in which the relationship ended will all mean that the narcissist will not come sniffing around the victim ever again.

We will.

Why is this the case?

Firstly, you must understand our perspective. You belong to us. You are our appliance. You are our property. The Formal Relationship between us may have ended but the Narcissistic Relationship is forever. It only ends when either you or I cease to draw breath. It does not matter that we enter into a new Formal Relationship with somebody else. It does not matter if you do. It does not matter that world war three erupted when we parted company. It does not matter if there has been complete silence for two years. None of these factors alter the fact that in our minds the connection between you and I because of the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until one of us dies.

Secondly, the attraction of gathering fuel from you is substantial and this is the prime driver for never letting go. Fuel is so important to us that it drives everything about behaviour and the link between you and I is no exception to the all-pervasive power of fuel.

Thirdly, factors such as new partners, the effluxion of time and the manner in which the Formal Relationship has ended are immaterial.

I am repeatedly asked by people whether a hoover will happen. I always answer the same; the risk always remains, but you can manage that risk. People set out the circumstances of the end of the Formal Relationship to me and what has happened since (if anything) and ask whether a hoover will happen, or express their view that they do not think it will happen because of a, b or c. My answer again is the same; the risk of us returning always remains, but you can manage that risk.

It is never the end. There is always a risk, a chance, a probability (or a possibility) that we will return to you and apply a hoover. You cannot assume that it is over. No matter how much it may seem that it is over, no matter how much it may appear to you that we will not come back, that we apparently have no reason to do so, such assumptions are dangerous. There are only two factors which are material to the issue of whether you will be hoovered again.

The first factor is the Hoover Trigger. For a hoover to happen potentially, it must first be triggered. This means that you must come into our sights, that we sniff the prospective fuel that leaks from you, that something happens to cause you to come up on our radar. Whether this happens depends on whether you enter one of the six spheres of influence. I have written separately about them in The Spheres of Influence (And What You Can Do About Them) in another article. I will not repeat its content other than to state that

  1. You have control over whether you enter any of the first five spheres of influence; and
  2. You have no control over whether you enter the sixth sphere of influence.

By staying away from us through no contact you will not enter the first five spheres. The sixth sphere is when we happen to think of you. Thus, if you have successfully implemented no contact the only risk of a trigger being activated is if we happen to think of you. You cannot influence that. Our preoccupation with your replacement means we are far less likely to think of you and hoovers are triggered by you doing something to enter the first five spheres, such as messaging us or passing where we live.

If you maintain no contact the first five spheres will not be entered. It then just depends on whether we happen to think of you. This may not happen for weeks or months. You can therefore see that by staying out of the first five spheres you will vastly reduce the risk of a Hoover Trigger being activated but you cannot state that it will never happen as it is reliant on if we happen to think of you. That may just be a random occurrence or it might be because we see something that reminds us of you.

The second factor is only applicable if the Hoover Trigger has been activated. The second factor is concerns the Hoover Criteria. These criteria include such matters as: –

–         Whether you are a potent source of fuel;

–         Whether you can easily be located;

–         Whether you can easily be contacted;

–         Whether you have your defences maintained concerning us;

–         Whether you remain mired in the emotional sea;

–         What support networks you have in place;

–         How well fuelled we are;

–         The nature of the narcissist who you entangled with (Lesser, Mid-Range or Greater); and

–         Potential obstacles

All of these matters combine to determine whether it is worthwhile us expending our energy to act on the Hoover Trigger. If we are presented with a sitting target, flowing with fuel, caught in the emotional sea, isolated and exposed then the criteria point heavily to the fact that a hoover will now take place. If on the other hand it is very hard to contact you, we know you have stopped flowing with fuel when dealing with us, you have people who will stop us trying to reach you and so forth, you become a Flawed Reason to Extract Emotion (F.R.E.E.).

For a worked example of how this can happen if someone enters the first sphere of influence I recommend that you read the article Hoover Time! Sphere One.

Accordingly, if you can do everything possible to become a F.R.E.E. then even if Hoover Trigger is activated then the chances of us executing that hoover will be considerably reduced. By contrast, if you fail to attain becoming a F.R.E.E. then you run the risk of a hoover being executed.

You will note that in the hoover criteria above there is no mention of the gap between when we last contacted you and the current time. There is no mention of the circumstances in which we parted company as the Formal Relationship. There is no mention of you knowing what we are, whether you told us, whether you exposed our abuses to others. Those are not factors which concern us. The existence of a new partner is not relevant either in isolation, but is only a partial consideration in terms of whether that person might stop us. Of course even if they might do so and all the other factors point to the execution of a hoover, this one criterion has diminished relevance.

Accordingly, when you are asking yourself whether a hoover may happen. Remember this.

  1. You can never say never.
  2. There needs to be a Hoover Trigger. You can significantly influence whether there is one and reduce the risk but you cannot remove it.
  3. The Hoover Criteria need to be met. Again, you can significantly influence whether the criteria are met by becoming a F.R.E.E. and reduce the risk, but you cannot remove it.

The issue of whether you will experience a hoover is not completely in your hands, but is far more within your control than you might at first have thought.

It is never the end but you are not helpless.

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32 thoughts on “Surely That Is The End, Yes?”

  1. J contacted me 9 months after discarding me, even though I had figured out what he was and had called him out on it and everything he did to me several months before. I know, a big no no, but I didn’t know that at the time. I outed him to many others; about the money he owed me for guitars (one, a white one he named Izabella) jewelry, the numerous Dr. visits I took him to and all of the nice things I had done for him with no apppreciation given and no intention of repayment. He had moved onto another woman at the time, but was obviously using her for her connections in the music industry. She contacted me after he punched her in the eye after she called him out on his shit. We teamed up, posted his link from his dating profile up on FB with all of it’s lies and exposed him further. There is so much more, I could go on all day with the saga but I won’t. I believe him to be a Lesser/Victim of your kind based on your descriptions. I know you said never say never, but what I’m wondering, HG, is, after all of this, would he really ever try to hoover me again?

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      1. I may need a private consultation. I thought I was discarded completely. Today, eight months after he disappeared w/o closure , I have been re-engaged via a restricted phone call with a fake apology, lies, and promises. I broke No Contact without realizing it and the shock knocked me off guard. I don’t want to be hoover fuel ever again.

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  2. My first conscious realization that I had found one of your kind was when he muttered “are you still here?” the details are best left to the imaginative among our kind.

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  3. I will believe there’s always a chance, but maybe they don’t like you, you’re not their type, or they find you annoying and nosy. With other fuel sources, they won’t come back to you unless absolutely desperate. As they don’t care about us, they’re not curious or interested in how we are doing, so no point to check in. If he finds out that in a city of millions, I randomly met his 2nd wife at an event (she doesn’t know I knew him, after their marriage), he might contact me to see what’s going on. Otherwise, I think he preferred no contact with me ever, unless he was destitute. I’ll keep you posted.

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  4. This article speaks so much truth. The passage of time means nothing. My narc came back after 20 years. Of course 20 years ago, when I left him, I had no idea that your kind existed. I chalked it up to him just being an immature a**hole. When he came back we became friends again (because most people change over the years) and then, although I am married, it went on to become much more. When a few months later, he showed his true colors, I was devastated to say the least. I couldn’t understand why someone would come back all those years later just to screw someone over. I did some research and discovered narcissism. As much as it hurt, I walked away… again. And now, thanks to this, I finally understand why. Thank you.

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  5. My 1st ex-husband was a Lesser Narc – LONG before I ever knew what a Lesser Narc was. Once I left him after 6 yrs, and 2 kids later (29 yrs ago), he had his s-i-l call me 3 mos. later asking if he could see the kids. I told her if he wanted to see them he could call me himself. Once he called, I gave him a list of rules he needed to abide by before he could see them, one of which was being consistent with visitation every 2 weeks. He became angry and said, “I’m 26 fucking years old, you don’t need to tell me what I can and can’t do with my kids”! I, in turn, told him, “who has the kids?”. When he finally agreed to my stipulations, I kindly took the kids to see him at his girlfriend’s apartment (the one he got pregnant twice, while with me). Two weeks later, I called to see if he was ready to have the kids come over (the loser had no transportation so I was willing to take them) and I got the operator on the phone stating that his number had been disconnected. I had no desire to track him down, he knew the rules. Three mos. later (again), his s-i-l called to see if he could see the kids. I told her to tell him to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine because he was never going to see them again. Three months after I had originally left him, I met a new man. I told him all about my kids dad, but never once did their dad come around. Me and the new man had dated for 2.5 years and about a month before we were to move into our new home, there was a knock at my door. It was late at night, we had just returned home from a weekend vacation, when I heard our friend say, “BraveHeart, there’s someone at your door”. When I looked out from behind the kitchen wall, I saw the ex standing in my doorway. I think I turned as white as a ghost. My boyfriend asked, “who is it”? I told him it was my ex. He asked if I wanted him to go to the door with me. I said, WELL YEAH! When I got to the door, I asked him, “what do you want” (very calmly). He said (drunk), I want to know if I can see my kids. I said, “no” (very calmly). He said, “maybe tomorrow”. I said, “no” (very calmly). He said, “maybe another time”. I said, “no” (very calmly). He then turned and left, with his tail between his legs (it probably helped that the boyfriend was 6′ and he was 5’5). My boyfriend got upset with me, at that time, because I didn’t tell him to get the fuck off my property and he’s not their dad anymore. I told him, “hey, I did what I had to do to get him to leave peacefully” because I still had a month left in my apartment by myself, with the kids, and I know how violent he can get. By the grace of God, he never came back around. He never again saw my kids and I can’t tell you how tall and powerful I felt looking down (really eye to eye) at the piece of shit. I did marry the boyfriend after 5 years of dating and he adopted our kids. I will forever be grateful to him for the 23 years we shared, but unfortunately, the marriage didn’t last. My point of this story is to tell you – you can never count on them being gone for good. In my case, with that circumstance, we moved and he was never able to find us again. With the ex-MN (Greater), I will never, EVER, think for one second that he won’t return, if given a chance. I will always keep my defenses strong, even though he can find me and contact me much more easily than the 1st Narc was able to. I will never again underestimate the mindset of a Narc regardless of what type he is; and the only reason I know this now is, again, by the grace of God leading me to HG’s site. HG, thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!

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    1. Oh, and the update of his life (discovered once FB came into play and his family members started contacting us – long story), he has 9 kids with 3 different women (including mine). He’s been, and is still, on Heroine after all these years. He’s been in and out of prison and all of his kids, except mine, have been on heavy drugs and in and out of prison, as well. For those of you who might struggle with the thought of whether to keep the Narc fathers/mothers in your kids lives – it truly is not worth the damage it causes over getting them out and giving them a chance to live in peace and freedom. I know with my daughter, she endured her first 5 years of life in a living hell and it still effects her to this day. Although, she was fortunate to live a blessed life, she also battles with anxiety and I know it stems from her earliest years. Her brother also battles with anxiety, even though he only lived the first 6 mos. of his life with him, but again, I know it’s because I went through hell with the bio-narc-dad while I was pregnant with him. Please get the kids away from these people if at all possible – it truly is worth it in the end. Peace to all of you and take care of yourselves and your children.

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      1. What if the father has joint custody though? I’m always surprised when parents on here recommend not letting the kids contact the father. Thats illegal in America given standard divorce decrees and can easily land the mother in jail if the father pursues contempt of court/motion for enforcement hearing. Just curious.

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      2. I was fortunate enough (if that can really be said) to be involved with a Lesser Narc who was too damn stupid and always in trouble with the law to go after joint custody. I’m in America and I know things were probably a lot different 29 years ago, but as long as mine didn’t pay child support and as long as he came and went as he pleased, I was damned and determined to make the rules. When we divorced, I also made damn sure I had full custody and he didn’t have a say so. When it came time for my 2nd ex-husband to adopt the kids, I did have to send out notice to their bio-narc-dad’s last known address to give him the chance to fight for custody, but he could never be found. Amber, I understand how hard it is to do that now, but as I said, if there is any possible way (without breaking the law), it is worth it in the long run. I’m actually glad the laws are stronger now because my son is in the same situation with a narc gf and at least he has a fighting chance of getting joint custody if it comes down to it. Right now, we’re doing a a lot of documenting just in case because when it comes to the law, it’s the only real way he’s going to have a fighting chance. Good luck, Amber! My heart, thoughts and prayers go out to every single parent and child who’s in this type of situation. I just hope and pray the justice system starts recognizing Narcissism for what it truly is.

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  6. They never let go no matter what.

    The origninal MN continues to hoover (3 years on) !!

    Recently he wanted to go for coffee (I’ve explained prcilusly that we see each other regularly at the same watering hole). I agreed but insisted on it being in a supermarket. He was ecstatic or high on fuel at least because this is the first time I’ve agreed. He has also been trying to get my number using different tactics during this whole three year period.

    Anyway, the coffee lasted 10 minutes. Then I made him shop for over an hour, helping Select my groceries, pack them and load them into the car. I made the whole experience as dull and mundane as I could simply because I know how Ns hate dull and boring (thank you HG) and he knows I always make things fun. He also bought some groceries, everything was organic and expensive (which I know he can’t afford) it he was trying to impress me, I commented how healthy he was ( he was delighted I’d noticed) and tried to pretend to me that he buys organic everything all the time.

    I made him load everything into the car. He asked for my number again. I took his and said I’d give it some thought and maybe text. He’s still waiting for that text.

    Oh the fun you can have shopping with an N !! 😂😂

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  7. Hmm. I wonder about this. I’m fairly certain my husband has never contacted any of his previous victims (several of them have been in contact with his sister, and she says she just completely disappeared from their lives). However, he and I have been together nearly 25 years and share a now grown son, so that is a possibility. Right now we are on limited contact as we are divorcing, but he seems to be avoiding me while he romances his latest victim. Our son hates him and wants nothing to do with him. I think that now that I’ve stopped playing along, my husband is a little afraid of me because all I can expose about him. Maybe. I think I am different than his other conquests — I never got the love bombing. I don’t know. I’m puzzling things out as we move through the divorce processs. I can’t wait to be free of this mess. I cut off my narcissistic mother and so I damn well can do NC with the asshole I married.

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    1. I feel like I should clarify the lack of love bombing. It took him years before he said he loved me, and the first time he was drunk. I think if he’d gone full force with a love bomb, I would’ve run away screaming. What he’s doing now with his girlfriend is so cringe-worthy and puerile. But maybe he knew that wouldn’t work with me. I guess I see it as him being a little scared of how he needed me. Not because he actually loved me, though. I do not think he’s at all capable of love.

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  8. I’ll take this one personally😊 so thanks for addressing this somewhat directly. First I moved to a city an hour away (didn’t work) and now a State away( still hovered) but the geographical hurdle has made all the difference in giving me the time to not make the same mistakes. Emotionally, I feel done. But mostly, he leans toward the Greater and his image matters more than anything. Certainly more than my life….even his own “happiness”. The 3rd party stepping in is the real reason he has scurried off. He will secure another to get him through this even if it’s me he wants, needs, “loves”. He can’t compromise his image bc it’s all he has. This is where the attraction really disappears for me. Accountability was his only chance with me and you know how that goes. Not judging bc we all have fears but facing them removes the coward label….then you become brave and courageous. Something to fall in love with. You’re right, though, bc in isolation, he would Hoover ….cowardly. He knows I see through him which is why the last Hoover never commenced in a physical meeting. I wouldn’t see him until I knew for sure he wasn’t NPD but he did everything you said and I gave up. I made the mistake of trying to help him with this. The rage and manipulations and vicious games and discards ensued. He knows I figured it out. It’s both the threat and the challenge and intrigue for him. Personally, I’m less focused on all this finally and my energies are in the moment and enjoying the colors of life again. Finally attracted to other men ….and drawn to the good ones. The last year with you has been the turning point so, again, thank you HG!!

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  9. Hi, HG. I’m curious about the comment you made in your post, DON’T LOOK BACK IN ANGER (9.30.15), where you said, “When I eventually discard someone from my life (I always do) I do not give them a second thought until I consider I might want something from then.” That contradicts what your’e saying in the current post about how there’s no such thing as a discard. Enlighten us. 🙂

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    1. Sorry, HG, I got your posts mixed up (that’s what I get for relying on memory). It was your post, The Final Discard, on March 9, where you said there’s no such thing as a discard. Thanks!

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    2. When I began writing on the blog I used the word ‘discard’ because it is a familiar word in the narcissistic dynamic. I have never liked it. Over time, I have formed the view that discard ought to become dis-engagement as this is more accurate (albeit longer to type which is irksome) thus it isnt a contradiction, but rather the use of a familiar term.

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      1. Ah, got it. Thank you. By the way, some of your posts have me laughing out loud (in a good way), because they’re so brutally honest. I love it! Thank your or helping sooooo many people. I appreciate you and hope treatment is coming along well!

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  10. Mine tried to contact me after 23 yrs. I didn’t respond to the FB request or the message he left 3 months after that a few years back. I guess he was divorced for the 7th time when he tried to contact me. The statement that “the relationship doesn’t stop until one of us dies” is so very true. I found out that he died 10/9/16.

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