The Empathic Supernova


What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are three schools of the empathic individual; the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The discarded Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are almost invisible and the few that exist are weak. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They locked together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Empath is also discarded. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this discard until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the discard, the Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are not on the same scale as the Co-Dependent. The Empath will have some narcissistic traits, not many and not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as an Empath (along with the fact that there are more Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.

Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with little and low narcissistic traits and the Empath has few and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.

179 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova

  1. dickforlong says:

    G I was with a narcissistic sociopath for 13 years. My question comes from my belief I displayed many types of empathy dependent on the environment. We traveled extensively where I was a strong magnet. I drew people to me.

    At our home i worked endlessly. Therefore more resembled a super carrier. I did ALL work at the home and worked in his business.

    But also felt I was a super empath wherein I would disengage entirely and or reaching the end of my rope wound him.

    Have you encountered this? Is it even possible?

  2. lmnop says:

    I have been told by two different narcissists that I am “fun” whilst engaging in supernova offense. What does it mean when a narcissist says you are “fun?”

    1. Victoria says:

      Hi HG
      Do you have a favorite type of empath? By that I mean would a magnetic be more appealing than a Super, Geyser or codependent? Does one type give out more fuel?
      Thank you sir🌺

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Magnetic is a cadre of empath and therefore applies to a relevant school.

        Geyser, Magnet, Carrier are all cadres (and more to be revealed). Super Empath, Empath and CoDependent are schools.

        1. Victoria says:

          Thank you for your explanation where can I read more about this? So let me ask you this correctly is there a cadre of empath that is more appealing to you and if so why? Does any cadre give off more fuel than others?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            They provide excellent fuel but in different ways – immense burst but short-lived, immense fuel over a longer duration or immense fuel from a wider range of appliances. The Geyser gives off a lot of fuel, but they tend to become stale faster, so they are immense in the short term but less effective in the long-term. The Carrier is a steady and slow burner over time. The Magnet is useful for gaining fuel from a wider range of appliances although there comes a risk of devaluation from out-shining our kind.

          2. Victoria says:

            Thank you so much for your detailed explanation I get it now. I can only assume that the empath, which you referred to as the bread and butter,is probably the most steady fuel and a long burning flame that will last the longest please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks again for this wonderful knowledge would you provide to us many schools of empath and cadres every day 🌺

      2. Love says:

        So there is no perfect fuel for you, Mr. Tudor. No single empath can encompass it all. 😞

  3. Star says:

    The best revenge for me.. going no contact, making it impossible for him to reach me in any way shape or form, moving on with my life and being happy, building old and new relationships and best of all not thinking or caring or checking up to see how his life is going.Whether or not this hurt him or wounded him, I do not know or care… which ironically may also be it’s own form or revenge:)

  4. Raquel says:

    Dear N Hubby, Oh yes! This is your Super Nova wife writing. Since you’ve made no attempts to discard, I’ve taken the reins with modified NC. I need to get healthy, and it’s fascinating stuff. Your choice to live in another state is biting you in the butt honey. Who’s spinning now darling? Omg, stop your ridiculous swirling with the occasion text breaking my boundaries and NC. You’re like a Ying and Yang cookie, with your ever present flipping that thing, in seeking control or validating control. Flip. You poor little 2 year old minded thing. Bless your heart, now you’ve read all the books on co -dep, and now you claim the full rights as the victim and co-dep (just in case yiy needs it—-use this info in the future of course). My healing inner wounds of self are rockin it! Watch out fool. Mindfulness, take that! As I increase in inner selfie healthier, the more your manipulation looks like a play date on steroids. Dear, Your bag of tricks is showing. Hey old man, future fake this–you find yourself (not literally, mind you) with a choice, but you adore risks, sooooo….main source of supply may or may not be around too much longer eh? How long will the co-depen mask last? It’s shriveled babe. I see those dead eyes. Plus, too old to do anything else about it? You tired? You know you’re playing with a Super Nova right? How’d that compartmental box you tried to fit me in work out for ya? I liked the cash part. Bought me some Birkenstocks. Nice move trying to make it look like you left me, damn I miss the grille. My abandonment issues cured themselves after your Triad attempts at the office party in your new town. Wow, frequenting family much? Don’t wear out that Camry being on the road so much, but family that caters to your every emotional need must get soooo old. Your texts are too. “So tired of crying” and miss me more everyday? But you don’t want me to text back correct? Boo hoo. You chose to work and live in another state, so smooth move for justification purposes in the future—tracking my car, phone and printer. That ego of yours, tsk tsk, sweetie, I already printed off all the gaslighting texts needed to sue you for emotional abuse, but I’ll just keep it, ya know, like you always say, “until I don’t need it any more.” I’ve been paying attention. Bravo on your devaluing technique of choice—gas-lighting. Might wanna get another gig, a back up when you are lost in your own lies. Your reality is showing. Keep that up, and your manip attempts are rising to hysterically funny level. Publishing worthy. But if all else fails, just skip discard, we live in separate states anyway, modified NC takes the pressure off—–go directly to idealization stage, cuz your gifts are stellar and those heart rocks with “servants hearts” and “find you in a rice field” scribbles are straight from a movie script. Wait, wanna do the cycles again? You know you wanna babe. Let’s roll.

    1. Ms brown says:

      Raquel… iheartthis!

    2. VFH says:

      Yes Raquel!

      How bad would it be to actually send this? I know you’re not supposed to but it’s obviously meh…and we don’t care about the fuel it provides when we’re at meh do we. What kind of fuel would it be?

  5. Anonymous says:

    I exposed him to at least five people, one of them ended up messaging him telling him he’s a loser and she hopes I leave him fast. Which I did. He deleted at least two of his online accounts to hide. I also did something else that I can’t go into but let’s just say he did/is doing something that is not entirely legal and I contacted the authorities. I don’t know if anything happened, and I probably never will.

    The thing is I always told him, from the very beginning, that if he does anything bad to me I WILL fight back. I’m a very nice, caring and helpful person but it’s been abused quite often in the past and when I was younger, I let people get away with it. But now I’m 40 and I can’t handle people walking away without being punished in one way or another. I know it’s probably not good (and immature). I also know people speak of karma but I want to be the one driving the karma bus most of the time. I’m done with him though. There’s much much more I could do, but for now I’m satisfied. Which is why I hope that hoover will never come.

    1. Anonymous says:

      I feel the need to elaborate on my comment so people can perhaps understand why I’m somewhat relentless. If it had been “only” the cheating and the lies, I probably wouldn’t have felt the need to get even with him and would have only exposed him. But as time went on and the more I read on HG’s blog as well as on other websites, things started to make sense. Shortly after we started dating, an important legal document if mine went missing. I hardly ever use that document so it’s either on my bookshelf or in a zipped compartment in one of my bags. I looked for that thing for months, I was having a very stressful time back then where I was utterly busy (work) and I really didn’t need that. I talked to him about it often because it stressed me out so much. Eventually, I went to the police and reported it as missing/stolen. I got a new one and forgot about it. Towards the beginning of the relationship, we were in my mother’s house. Mum told me that money and other things were gone from her house. Now, mum doesn’t like many people, she didn’t like him. So I didn’t quite believe her. I confronted him but he denied it, laughed, said it was crazy of my mum to suspect him. I believed him because you know, he just didn’t seem like the type to steal things.

      Now that the façade has all been destroyed and I can see him for what he really is, I’m angry. I’m angry at him stealing my legal document and watching me get stressed about it for months. I KNOW it was him because I have moved since and it never surfaced. There’s no way I lost it. I’m angry at him trying to turn me against my mum (and the rest of my family), I’m angry at him for stealing a retired woman’s money. My mum is well-off, but that doesn’t matter. It’s still simply disgusting. I’m also angry at him for cheating, not because it makes me jealous, but because I, who is always very careful when it comes to safe sex, now had to get all sorts of tests done (still waiting for the results). When we started dating four years ago, we both got tested. Because he has a history of cheating, I told him that IF he cheats on me, to just be honest about it because hell, he could potentially risk my life.

      So that is why if given the chance to do it and get away with it, I would probably destroy him and a bit like a narc, walk away into the sunset with a smile on my face.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Shit, I think I’m a Super Empath and it makes me feel sort of bad about myself. I don’t know why though. I thought I was nice, I guess.

    1. mistynolan01 says:

      Being a super empath means you will at some point fight back, thereby wounding the narc. I unwittingly did that. It’s not something I would do intentionally, after learning so much from HGs blog, however.

      You and I are, according to HG, still empathic. So … good.

      1. Anonymous says:

        I fought back and wounded him intentionally. And it felt good. If it wasn’t for HG’s work and knowing that I have to stay away, I’d still be doing it. Just this afternoon I met up with my brother and talked about all the ways I could fight back. I’m not going to do anything, but god, it feels nice to imagine it. This is probably the major reason why I hope he won’t hoover me. If he tries, I can’t guarantee for anything. Not yet. Will need to read more of HG’s work.

        1. mistynolan01 says:

          Good luck.

          1. I fought back too. Big style. And I wounded him often. I learnt the silent treatment was my best weapon. He couldnt stand it! He would stomp and swear and shout and bang and get in my face but I still wouldn’t react or respond. I could see the fear and panic in his eyes, mostly panic. I didnt know what he was at the time but I knew how to play him at his own game when I’d really had enough of his crap. I wouldn’t say I enjoyed it because inside I was screaming ‘leave me the hell alone’ but his humiliation was enjoyable to a point. My discarding of him was enjoyable too even though I was petrified. It gave some of my power back.
            Am I a super empath? I question it. I did take a lot of pleasure in making him look stupid. I did take pleasure in watching him squirm. Narc traits definitely but hand on heart I would never feel any pleasure in doing that to anyone else. I actually couldn’t bring myself to do that to anyone else. I despise that kind of behaviour.
            I think I’m maybe just an empath that can kick ass when I’m at my limit.

        2. KT says:

          How did you wound him? What does one say to wound them? And how does one know that you have wounded him and not just gave him fuel?

          1. SVR says:

            Two childhood wounds in two consecutive days, unreal. Now I realise how lucky I really am.

      2. SVR says:

        Do not worry about that at all. You only release your narc traits when needs arise and that’s protecting you. I think I join you on that one although today something I did made me think omg! I was wounded so fired back quickly. Will have to think over that a bit more.

  7. SVR says:

    HG waiting anxiously for a reply if you have a minute. Just wondering what I am classed as in your mind please. Thank you.

  8. Supernova says:

    (The last paragraph) Nope. You don’t enjoy the challenge to your grandiosity. You slap your face to make it look like you are blushing, when you are faced with an empathic supernova. 🙂

  9. reciprocalloveblog says:

    Oh I just love you HG 😊😊❤️❤️

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Always good to know Reciprocalloveblog, keep it flowing.

      1. SVR says:

        HG can you tell from comments that people put on here what exactly they are?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Oh yes. Not straight away but I can always tell.

          1. SVR says:

            Where do your skills stop?
            So please enlighten me on what I am if you happen to know. That would prove interesting from your perspective.

  10. mistynolan01 says:

    So, I’ve read this post three or four times. This time I picked up on the use of hegemonic dominance. Up until this point, I thought I was dealing with a mid range narcissist, now I believe he was a greater. Chills. I didn’t know I was in real danger. Not so much the physical kind, but definitely the psychological kind. He absolutely (resolutely?) believed in male superiority and walked the earth as if he owned it. All of his male friends were subjugated in his presence. All eyes on him. What a bastard.

  11. mistynolan01 says:

    “I didn’t need to say ‘no’ … she knew where to stop.”

    Chills. I read that in your accent.

  12. G says:

    So, then I think that the empathic supernova is the sum of everything.
    I hope they keep theirselves in the light or they can be very dangerous.
    But normally, they are all good. right?

    1. mistynolan01 says:

      Do you mean dangerous for the narc? If so, we’re good! If you’re a narc, then we’re the boogeyman!

      1. SVR says:

        Agree. Alls good if your nother a narc, actually it is OK with a narc for a period of time until they take advantage just that little bit too much. The one I knew ran away and blocked me when the tables turned. Shame he can give but not take as could have been real fun for a good bit longer 😂

        1. mistynolan01 says:

          SVR, I could not figure out what the hell was going on after the love bomb phase. It was a challenge… But not one I would like to ever take again. Don’t get me wrong, he was very, very exciting and the sex was very, very addictive. But once I figured out he was actually trying to hurt me psychologically that’s when I stopped playing nice.

          Had I only known what he was — and I hate to say this — but I would have given him the kind of fuel that he needed for a while longer. It was an exciting ride, and dammit(!) I wasn’t ready to be disengaged.

      2. G says:

        yes. I can imagine that they can be dangerous for the narc 🙂

        1. mistynolan01 says:

          I wouldn’t go that far … if the ex-narc and I were in proximity I would be in grave danger.

          I’m sure he would Hoover me after healing his wounds and I’d still play, putting myself in the midst of all kinds of mayhem, and even though he didn’t show signs of being violent towards me, I was aware that he had a violent temper. Narcs are nothing to be played with. I had a greater on my hands, I now realize. {{{shudder}}}

          1. Karen Comfortably Numb says:

            I agree Misty. It’s a dangerous game to forget who they are.

  13. KT says:

    Hello Mr T. If the codependent is far left and the greater is far right. Who is right in the middle? Shouldnt there be something inbetween super empath and lesser narc so there can be a personality type right in the middle? Or is the middle point the ” normal” person who can be empathic at times and narcissistic at times?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      In the centre ground you find the ‘normals’ and the ‘apaths’. The normals are those with few and low narcissistic and empathic traits. The apaths have particularly low empathic traits which causes them in effect to be blind to the suffering of others although they do not engage in causing that suffering themselves. They have a head down, ‘not my problem’ mentality.

      1. Karen Comfortably Numb says:

        That’s so interesting.
        Never heard mention of apaths here before.
        Something else to add to my ‘analyse and diagnose’ tool kit that now goes everywhere with me in my head. I know it’s a dangerous game but it really is just for my own learning and I never share my findings with my case studies 😃
        HG how do you decide whether someone is a full blown narcissist or if they just have a lot of narcissist traits?
        I know the official line on that but I don’t follow or agree with their reasoning. I don’t think it’s that simple.
        What’s your take?
        Please and thank you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Empathy is the determining factor.

      2. windstorm2 says:

        I would think it would be very difficult to tell apaths from narcissists. If a person has such low empathy that he is blind to the feelings of others, he will cause a lot of suffering inadvertently by his thoughtless, unfeeling behaviors. He will then obviously not care since it’s not his problem. A person without empathy who doesn’t care about the feelings of others and causes suffering sounds very narcissistic.

      3. KT says:

        Oh ok. Thank you

      4. Narc affair says:

        Ive never heard of an apath but going by the description i have seen these types and i find it bothersome. Like when someones being physically abused like a child and they dont get involved or someones been in an accident and they dont stop to help. Basically they dont give a damn. I find these type of people just as bad.

  14. 12345 says:

    I’m a garden variety co-dependent. Picture a toddler struggling to beat up an adult. That’s me🙄 But I’m working on that.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Keep reading here 1234 and you may be a toddler but you will be packing heat and weaponised.

    2. Patricia says:

      knowledge is power!

  15. HappyKid says:

    Blow after blow of non-emotional criticism wears the narcissist down. And too, the empath uses his own manipulations against him while his ego completely blinds him like a wall before his eyes. He has no idea and it seems the smarter he is the easier it is to trick him. The smart ones are easy because they underestimate their prey — ego. The empath in the supernova event turns the tables on the narcissist. It reminds of a song as though it’s the narcissist’s new song:

    1. Angelic says:

      Could you expand on that Happy Kid?

  16. Amy S. says:


    Do you also offer an assessment service for empaths to establish what group they belong to?


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes that can be done through consultation.

      1. Amy S. says:

        Ok, I will book soon, thanks!

  17. AME says:

    Yes, I’m curious about the frequency and duration of this resulting behavior. I’m sure each individual is different but in your experience what would you deem your average experience?

  18. K says:

    The Light, It blazes brightly again!

  19. Medusa says:

    HG TUDOR PLZ READ I’d love your input.

    Thank you for writing this article and helping me answer a question that has been gnawing at my brain for roughly seven months now.

    I had become so wrapped up and entangled in my relationship with my narcissistic husband and now that he’s gone and I’ve had time to reflect on our extremely abusive relationship, I have often asked myself this question: maybe I’m narcissistic too? And even though I’ve played our relationship out in my mind a million times, I have told myself, “no, but he brought out traits in you that you did not like. He drove you to insanity daily. You don’t go around trying to hurt people. That is not in ur nature.”

    I read your whole article trying to see where I fell on your spectrum and I believe I fall under the category of empath supernova and I will tell you why because I need to get it off my chest.

    My narc didn’t start treating me like a POS until we got back from our honeymoon. He took all the wedding money and blew it on addictions like drugs and gambling, strangled me, pawned off my engagement ring telling me he had lost it after demanding he wanted it back and a terrifying porn addiction that I did not find out about until after we had celebrated our one year anniversary. I use the word terrifying because in that one year, things had escalated quickly. Two months into our marriage he had strangled me (having never put his hands on me up until that point) in a hotel room and I was so terrified I had called the cops which were of no help… councilling with two separate therapists soon ensued to no avail really.

    until September 22, 2016.

    We went to therapy that day and idk exactly what the therapist said but something triggered inside me and on Sept 23, 2016 I grew a set of balls and decided to look on his laptop because I felt he was hiding something very serious from me. Nothing could prepare me for what I found. Yes, there was a gambling addiction. But it was the porn that sent me over the edge. It was all teen/step dad related links and I have two girls one 15 and the other 9.

    I threw up for three days.

    I confronted him that day about the porn and his answer was “it’s no big deal, it’s not like you don’t masturbate”

    This to me was obviously NOT the response I wanted to hear so I told him I was leaving to which he decided to take my dogs head and shove it under the tire of my car to keep me from leaving.

    I called the cops again. And again, they were no help.

    But I did get to leave with my dog. I went to a friends house with my oldest daughter that night.

    And the next day while reeling from fear for my kids safety and while driving home my daughter asked me:

    “Mom, your probably not getting back together with A**** are you?

    (I never told my kids what I found on that computer- so what she told me scared me – SCARED ME)

    I said “probably not,”

    She said ” good, cuz he was getting weird anyway…”

    I slowly turned my head and as calm as I could I asked her “do you care to elaborate on that?”

    To which she replied:

    “Well, when we (he and my daughter) went to that concert 3 weeks ago, he kept putting his arms around me like I was his girlfriend… I had to keep pushing him off me all night and he kept saying he was only trying to protect me… but it didn’t feel right… it felt like he was a boyfriend putting his arms around me… I KNEW IT WAS WRONG BECAUSE YOU WOULDNT HAVE DONE THAT mom (I put that in caps because it sounded like fire alarms going off in my own head and spoke volumes about boundaries being crossed)
    And after the concert he asked me if I would like to smoke a joint with him on the way home… I felt really uncomfortable but was able to tell him no and he drove me home… I just wanted to get home…

    I asked her if she would tell the cops and she said yes

    So we went to the cops.

    And then I text my husband a message…. that he would pay… that I would not rest until he knew and understood the importance of treating human beings as such … that I would be his worst nightmare come true…
    And that was the last time I spoke to him…

    I went to court and got an emergency protection order and had him removed from his house. We were supposed to go to court in October 12, 2016, two weeks after finding that shit on his computer….

    But instead of court. I had a knock on my door at 2:30 am. Two cops standing at the door to tell me my husband had died in a single vehicle crash. He died instantly.

    Shock doesn’t even begin to describe what coursed through me. Because even though I knew what he had done was horrible… I still believed he could get help. He wasn’t supposed to die. He was supposed to wake up and get better. Be better. Do Better.

    And now, 7 months later. I’ve come to realize I was married to a narc. I didn’t know it at the time. I just thought it was a relationship with its issues… but as time went by my head began to clear and I started feeling more like my self and started replaying our whole relationship and wanting answers…. and I have found them. Here. In your articles.

    Your probably asking how I feel about him being gone… honestly… I’m relieved. Because if there’s anything else your articles have taught me is he would’ve made my life a living hell if he were alive.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Medusa, the appropriate forum to address this would be through a consultation.

    2. CatLady2468 says:

      Sept 23 2015 – I was in golden period and spoiled as heck, except little did I know he was sexting over 300 times that day to the person he was supposed to have left to be with me

      Sept 22 2016 – I didn’t know it then, but know now, I was in devaluation period, but at the time very much living off hope, that pure innocence of hope for magical surprises and amazing times. And how badly I missed being special to him.

      Sept 23 2016 – the day the hope took it’s biggest hit and inevitably began to die. The beginning of the supernova would begin this day.

      Sept 23rd is my birthday you see 🙂

      Today – he’s gone, been gone physically since March and I have learned quite a bit since then. But have still been his fuel monkey. Today I became his manipulative fuel monkey by working with the hand I have been dealt instead of aggressively fighting it and speaking out against it. I’m sure the paranoia and confusion is going strong by now in my covert ex, he doesn’t take being aplogised to while I act with respect and accountability very well at all, he loves his negative fuel from me and was sure he’d hurt me so deeply this time that I don’t think he would have expected what I said about 3 hrs ago to have happened. But then again… I can’t say for sure because after he responded with his general predictable response of needing to be the bad guy who hurt me and yadda yadda yadda ending his silent treatment of me, I wished him all the best and blocked the shit out of him so he cannot contact me.

      Do I care? I should and normally would. But right now I have a strange feeling of calm contentment.

  20. AME says:

    How long in duration of time intervals do you believe this would occur?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      What do you mean AME? Do you mean how often might someone go supernova?

  21. Ms brown says:

    HG… just when I thought I knew it al, loll….. you bring it!! i<3u in my own way…

  22. Clinical tests on the other side, the empath side of the corridor confirm the same results of the empathic supernova. This concludes the study and results are now a scientific finding.

  23. Thank you HG. This is an incredibly liberating and empowering read. And this helped me in my healing. I still feel vulnerable and I feel like I would be hurt easily. I have read this one many times. It makes me feel strong, and I now know I can fight back and I know how I fought back. Thank you.
    I hope your therapy is effective, so you can use your knowledge and deploy it for good even more than you do now. You will probably always be a narcissist, it’s not curable. But maybe it will keep the creature in the mirror from appearing.

  24. Patricia says:

    This describes the situation I found myself in and the way I began to deal with him. I really learned how to fight back with some of his own tactics and some he was unfamiliar with. I know I wounded and confused the hell out of him repeatedly but it was in self defense! It felt both empowering and horrible, like I wasn’t being true to myself and I know he was at a loss for how to regain his control. I really was afraid I was becoming just like him and yet what options did I have? Enough is enough. I’m happy to know I wasn’t ever truly like him.

    1. Ms brown says:

      i get that, now, too… after reading what HG just posted for us

    2. Karen Comfortably Numb says:

      Hi Patricia, I was the same. Wounded the hell out of him. He once told me that I scared him lol. I think I actually did. I was expert at the silent treatment and would fight back like hell even though I never understood what I was fighting about!
      I got to the point that I enjoyed humiliating and patronising him. Not me at all and I really did worry I’d become a Narc until HG pointed out that I was only like it with the ex. Self defence.
      I’ve never agreed with the saying ‘respect has to be earned’ with me DISrespect has to be earned. I respect everyone until they lose it. He did. Rapidly.
      The one thing it did teach me was that I never knew I had so much fight in me and that my narc traits existed. I would have denied that before the ex as they had never surfaced before. I still don’t know how I feel about that but at least it’s comforting to know I can fight hard when I need to.

      1. Patricia says:

        Exactly!! They underestimated us, We may love them and have tons of compassion but we matter too. The best was calmly humiliating him in front of someone. That was especially satisfying because it was such long time coming and he had no idea I was capable of such behavior and neither did I honestly but there’s no way I could allow him to keep treating me as though I were less important. I put up with it for way longer than I should have. If only I had realized what he was, I would have retaliated sooner.

  25. CuriousGal says:

    HG, Besides not providing much fuel, are you saying that the empth causing pain to the narcissist by non-emotional criticism as her power punches continue to land is the battle between these two opposites? It seems to be a matter of control of emotions, the narcissist’s pain, getting his feelings hurt, and the empath’s feelings.

    1. HG Tudor says:


  26. “Doctor, doctor! I think I am a co-dependant empath!”

    “Then put your knickers back on and go make me a cup of tea.”

    1. Gabbanzobean, have you done videos on YouTube about your narcissist? Your face rings a bell.

      I sat and watched a fair few. I like your sense of humour and honesty (if so).

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        I think you’re confusing me with someone else, I do not have my own YouTube channel.

  27. This article is gold, thank you HG. About time you shined some light on us Supers 😉
    It has always puzzled me why/how I could turn on and off my own narc traits… an aaha moment for me. Haha each time he has tried a hoover I’ve managed to turn it round and discard him! Peace n quiet now for 3 months 🕉

    1. Ms brown says:


  28. K says:

    The year of 2015 I held back a fair amount of fuel and became very, very mean. As nonchalantly as possible, I just kept insulting him. Six months into 2015, he seemed very distressed one day and blurted out, “I can figure everyone out, but you. You are the only person I just can’t figure out.” I asked, “What do you mean?” No response. Towards the end of 2015 he made this odd statement, “Everyone plays the game but you. You are the only one that doesn’t play.” I looked at him and said, “What game are you talking about?” He just repeated, “The game.” On May 7th 2016 he couldn’t pack and get out fast enough. Poof! He was gone!

    Bye bye Felicia.

    1. SVR says:

      Love it. Well done 😂

      1. SVR says:

        I got “what is it with you always asking me what I think of it when I ask you the question”. My counselling skills came in handy. Idiot. Bye bye for good. That means don’t try and hoover. I told him shit lives in shit. He said I know it’s not nice where I live. Any normal would not act like that. Honestly you narcs, we got you sussed.

  29. This has me so confused. I don’t know what class I am in. I have been told I have trouble letting go, and I’ve been labeled a co-dependent, but I am not sure.

    1. Karen Comfortably Numb says:

      Hi, Narckedout.
      If you possibly can, try an email consult with HG.
      He will set you right and lift the confusion. He did me. 😊

  30. Jules says:

    Wow! This article is a bit of an eye opener for me. I have recently told my husband to leave two weeks ago. I have been trying to figure out his behavior over the years, I think he specializes in gaslighting and denial. To much to go into details here. But I have always considered myself empathic, but after going through cancer, I began to call him and a “friend” on bad behavior and fight back. I thought I maybe the narcissist. Now I am thinking Super Empath…I take so much then watch out! Thanks for the insight!

  31. mistynolan01 says:

    This reinvigorated me, as I’ve been down the last few days and thinking about my ex narc way too much.

    I described me and my ex narc in our relationship on this blog without the labels. He was definitely a mid-ranger and I’m a super empath. Our relationship went exactly as HG outlined it — down to the discard.

    My constitution is weaker now than it was while I was in tangled with the narc, in terms of sometimes longing for him.

    I resisted giving in to his pitiful need for all the attention all the time and I know now that I wounded him repeatedly. (Watch out bitch! I bring the supernova!!)

    That makes me feel good. I smile.

    Thank you HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome MN01.



  33. narseeker says:

    Hello HG, I find the description of the super-empath’s characteristics very accurate and empowering. Thank you.
    It often occurs that in the media, news about abuse of strong and successful women are portrayed along the lines of “Oh, that’s awful -the pertinent outcome of the abuse- BUT “something must have been very wrong with her, she surely was desperate or hid some deep rooted weakness OTHERWISE this and that wouldn’t have happened”. Every time I encounter such analysis, I feel like the victim is abused all over again.
    Question: If I remember correctly, you had mentioned a while ago an upcoming article about the Narcissist and drug abuse. Am I mistaken? Was it posted?
    Secondly, Would you be willing to describe in detail the Narcissist’s mindset in the event of his birthday from a bird’s eye view: expectations from ALL sources (not solely IPPS) all shapes of past/present fuel sources of supply?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you, I am pleased you found it useful.

      No, the article about narcissists and drug use has not been posted.

      Watch out for the forthcoming article – “It’s My Birthday and Don’t You Just Know It”.

  34. ava101 says:

    Actually, I think you are incredibly right about the light analogy. I guess I do have narcissistic streaks (and learned outward behaviour, from my parents) and I do fight for myself when necessary – but it’s a constant effort, I don’t like it and I don’t like putting myself in the center. I have to do that consciously.
    So … the other part comes back with a vengeance actually and even longs for submission. In a certain setting. While I have a real problem with any kind of authority at the same time and don’t accept anybody “above” me. Different parts of me, I guess. Or one part conditioning, one part learned behaviour, one part survival instinct … etc. …. I don’t know.
    But I would like to add that some wounding behaviours might be more “normal” range than narcissistic.Or both.

  35. Victoria says:

    Hi HG,
    I know the Co-Dependent is obvious in her behavior but can you tell the difference between and Empath/Super Empath on the first meeting or does it take a couple of times to see the distinction? If so, what is the first clue that she is a SE as opposed to an Empath?
    Thanks, beautiful stated and explained. 🙂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It will take a few interactions to notice the difference. It is the evidence of more narcissistic traits in that individual (alongside of course their extensive empathic ones) which is the significant indicator.

      1. SVR says:

        HG can you give an example of what a supernova has done to you? Thanks

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Had me arrested.

          1. SVR says:

            Oh my. Bet you hate her. I would love to report what he did to me which included rape. I have to protect others so I have not gone to the police. How did you react to being arrested? You obviously got released but was that following a night in the cell?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I don’t get kept in cells.

          3. SVR says:

            Neither do I. So is this woman going to be part of your plan for revenge?

          4. HG Tudor says:


          5. SVR says:

            I thought you don’t do in between, perhaps is indecisive so do you known your plan? Is there going to be repercusions for you if you do involve her in your plan. Don’t you think she was brave?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            It is because I do not want to reveal it just yet, not owing to any indecision. No repercussions for me.

          7. SVR says:

            Thanks for answering. May I add thank you for today. Been nice talking and you definitely took the boredom out of what I was doing. 👍

          8. HG Tudor says:

            You are most welcome and I am pleased that that has been the case.

          9. Indy says:

            Lawyers, money, family name, and blue eyes. Yeah, I can see that you would have to go on a murderous rampage before being locked up. LOL

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Even that wouldn’t stop me.

          11. Indy says:

            The magic of being like Teflon. Silly me, I forgot!

          12. HG Tudor says:


          13. KT says:

            HG that surely was one pissed off empath lol

          14. HG Tudor says:


      2. SVR says:

        HG do you think we are born with this or is it genetic and shaping as a child like you said narcissism is? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I regard the creation of a super empath to arise from inherent genetic traits coupled with upbringing.

          1. SVR says:

            So in a way my background is like yours as as in genetic and shaping. My father was strange and I always sought his approval so I think he was a narc with his affairs and behavior, no real interest in me. My mother was controlling and really cared what others thought of us all. I use to answer her back so do you think I chose to challenge her? Thank you for quick answer.

          2. HG Tudor says:


          3. This is the one thing that still confuses me. My actions to the ex were definitely that of a super empath. I was proper narc with him and took enjoyment from humiliating him as he did me yet I have never treated anyone like that before in my life. I wouldn’t! I had no idea such narc traits resided in me until the ex! Maybe it was because by that point I hated him but was trapped?
            So am I super empath or an empath with a bad ass attitude to abuse?
            Please could you help me out with this HG?
            Thank you.

      3. SVR says:

        In your mind HG, do you not think what you did to her warranted you being arrested?
        KT why would they empath have been pissed off?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It did not warrant being arrested no and my subsequent release without charge demonstrated that.

          1. SVR says:

            So have you logged a complaint with the police?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            About what?

          3. SVR says:

            Being arrested

          4. HG Tudor says:

            That ace remains up my sleeve with regard to painting a picture.

          5. SVR says:

            I don’t understand

      4. Love says:

        SVR, I cannot speak for KT, but I know that most empathic people are extremely loyal, and it will take a lot for us to ‘betray’ the one we love – no matter how horrible their actions. Perhaps supernovas are able to harden their heart easier and do what they deem is right. Or as KT stated, they can be pissed off enough to seek justice. Most of us fear the ramifications of such actions. A narc’s wrath.

  36. abrokenwing says:

    Once I am properly healed and armed with everything i learned here no narcissist will stand a chance. And I will destroy the mid-ranger.💪

    1. SVR says:

      Sigrid Don’t kill my vibe
      Paramore Hard times

      These songs will help with strength from the words. Keep at it as there is a wonderful wored when narcs are not welcome anymore. 😃

    2. Ms brown says:

      once you are zero impact you can seek revenge… Read HG’s “how to”…

  37. polgal says:


  38. polgal says:

    I’m not sure who I’m anymore… He keep sharing with me all those things he does to other woman like I’m his confidant. Its sickening; yet I can’t stop myself from talking to him.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I can.

      1. polgal says:


        1. HG Tudor says:

          Email me.

      2. Karen Comfortably Numb says:

        Yep. I’ll vouch for that. He can.

    2. Star says:

      Hello polgal:)I do hope I am not overstepping ( or sounding too much like a groupie lol) I know HGs advice will be helpful. But also I want to mention that his book Exorsism is an amazing source for knowledge of purifying yourself of the addiction. Hope you don’t mind me mentioning so HG.

      1. polgal says:

        Thank you Star. I would check the book too!

    3. Ms brown says:

      Heed HG’s advice… if you must do a personal consult DO IT! HG will make you understand… you will learn who you are and what the “other ” is and how to deal.

    4. SVR says:

      So did HG help?

      1. Polgal1 says:

        Yes. He was 100% correct. I’m still suffering but every day is getting better.

        1. SVR says:

          Excellent. Great news. Respect ❤

  39. Carla says:

    I absolutely love this analogy.

  40. SVR says:

    This is without a doubt the best article to date for me. This has made me totally complete and recovered so HG one massive thank you. I do have a question: as a child 2 of my friends died in separate incidents, then a close relative died on me and I had to resuscitate to no avail, my dad had affairs and left the household once for a long period of time, a lady committed suicide I met the night before as went out with her and my dad (makes me thinks he may have been playing games with her also) but from this I realise not an ideal childhood and moved home and schools every 3 years and my parents were not very good now on reflection. From this above I believe myself to be this empathic supernova as I use to answer my mother back big time so was classed as the problem child although I am sure she started most of them. So could I subconsciously have become a narcassist instead of what I am? Thanks once again. Your writing is absolutely a joy to read and helpful in the equation.

  41. strongerwendy says:

    Yes, I definitely think I’m super empath based on this.

  42. horseyak says:

    Hi HG, I have posted this before but don’t know if it ever reached you because I am a semi Luddite but to me the ultimate representation of the empathic supernova is the scene in The Equalizer where Denzel tries to free a young prostitute he’s come to feel very protective of from the clutches of the Russian mafia by attempting to pay the head Russian asshole/pimp $9800 to leave her alone. He humiliates Denzel in true malignant narc fashion. What happens next is a thing of beauty for all of us super empaths who truly can call upon our tremendous fury to exact retribution. By the way I would be very curious to know how you size up the narcissistic potential of the super empath so soon after meeting her. I do not think anyone meeting me has ever been able to see what lurks on the other side if they cross a certain line.

  43. VFH says:

    Well I never. Fascinating. And quite liberating! Thank you.

    What sort of wounds does a Supernova inflict?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They tend to provide a lot of fuel even when fighting back. When they wound, it tends to be repeated for instance in having the strength of resolve to keep ignoring a narcissist rather than giving in.

      1. sarabella says:

        I sometimes wonder if he has ever had someone fight back like me. For some reason, I think not. I think he picks ones who equally need to use him so they have a high tolerance as long as they can get something from him ( money or things), ones who will just leave without any clue what happened but they know they were hurt and betrayed, and then probably a few like me. I had the resolve to not ever back down, even in my fighting. Pretty much made it clear in the end, that until he came clean, I never, ever would give in. He set up similar boundaries with me. Ergo. Final Goodbye happened.

      2. VFH says:

        Thank you for explaining HG.

        So would a narcissist choose different types of empath depending on what purpose they wanted serving? Eg a Greater would select a Super Empath to maintain a longer lasting facade whilst amusing him (or her) self with other schools throughout the duration?

        Btw it’s just struck me that you are Mr. T 😊 My favourite character from The A Team “I ain’t getting on no plane, fool!” Always brings me a smile.

      3. Ms brown says:

        and that was me and I didn’t even know it… what was my “breakdown” and told I am co-dependant was really my resurrection rebound of hell hath no fury…
        I am NOT co-dependent! I do not give in! I am ZERO IMPACT. I WAS Supernova… FUCK these doctors and I owe HG for setting me free with the truth…

      4. superxena says:

        In such a case..when the Super Empath goes intonSuper Nova and keeps fighting back: is it ” Challenge Fuel” that keeps the narcissist going on? I think you have mentioned this Challenge Fuel somewher but I can’t find it..could please expand on this type of “fuel”?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is. If you read the article Fuel, Fight or Flight the information can be found in there.

          1. superxena says:

            Thank you HG… I will look at that article..

  44. Gabrielle says:

    This clearly and more than likely must explain why his wife has not left his sorry ass. I still need to go and find that article on the types of empath from that post earlier this morning.

  45. Karen Comfortably Numb says:

    HG, may I print this out to share with a friend please?
    Credited to yourself of course.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes you may. Thank you for the courtesy of asking.

      1. Karen Comfortably Numb says:

        Thank you.

      2. Ms brown says:

        I didn’t have the “courtesy of asking”, I assumed this blog was public? As a side note, I ALWAYS make sure you get the credit when I share… my apologies

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Noted and appreciated.

  46. Star says:

    Thank you so much for this description HG. For the longest time I did in fact wonder if I had turned narcissistic ( tho my therapist assured me I had not) I wounded him, delivering blow after blow, I dimmed my empathy and almost acted robotic, giving nothing but a blank slate emotionally. I still do this concerning him ( when he makes feeble attempts at reappearances)and will continue to do so if I deem necessary. A huge part of me hates being this way, it feels unatural to how I prefer to relate to others. But I realize now it’s a mechanism I use to protect myself and my family. They are stong boundaries and are necessary to keep him far away. Tho I do wish it didn’t have to be this way, it is key to my survival. I am just glad I don’t have to be this way all the time in every aspect in my life. Ahhh good stuff HG, thank u, thank u.

  47. Ms brown says:

    addendum: I am printing this and taking it with next time I go for my med review…. THANK YOU!!!

  48. Ms brown says:

    Today I learn again…. I was told by “professionals” and treated as such, that I was co-dependant …. According to what you have revealed here, I AM NOT co-dependant! F**k, no wonder I wasn’t “getting better”! So called “good drs”?…. I am done with them!

    1. sarabella says:

      Yeah, I was never labeled codependent but I think they thought as much. Like said below, I turned brutal. Utterly brutal. Pay back was a bitch. But I was still trapped for a long time. And it was not codependency. Traits maybe but not codependent

    2. Indy says:

      Hi Ms Brown,
      I think sharing it is a good idea. It will stimulate good discussion for sure and perhaps will introduce them to HGs fine work. As a professional in the psych field with lots of personal and professional experience with codependency, having partners with addiction/alcoholism and narcissists , I do wish to give this bit of info to you as a heads up, as it is defined differently depending on who you talk to. HG defines codependents differently that the originators of the use of the term. It was created by 12 step traditions and those who worked with toxic family dynamics with a member in the family having an addiction/alcoholism and its impact on the whole fam. It has since branched out and is used descriptively to describe a person that feels they can control another human being’s behavior and their own happiness relies on that other person’s behavior. That is the traditional definition in a rough summery. Because it isn’t a diagnosis, but a cluster of traits, it can vary in use. I fell into the traditional definition but not HGs definition. Once I realized I could not control or change anyone but myself and I didn’t rest my happiness on whether someone else is sober or is kind, or any other behavior, I showed less codependency behaviors and thinking. Once I realized I couldn’t save anyone but myself, l became less codependent and left. It’s about having boundaries too. I was far from weak, never in need of hospital and ran the family. I hurt deeply though and needed to change. Let Go, Let God got me thru along with the serenity prayer and oddly enough, my training. Some therapists/psychologists are great and others, well, let’s just say I would waste my money and wouldn’t refer an enemy to…

      The use of the word gets fuzzy these days. So, just an FYI they may be coming from a 12 step perspective.

      Just my 2 cents.

      1. DJ says:

        Hi Indy. Thanks for the definition. Would you agree that co dependancy stems from a self love deficit? I’ve also been told that this is what made me susceptible to narcissistic abuse but I just don’t feel that I fall into this definition. I’m undoubtedly an empath but I always felt I had a healthy level of narcissism. My downfall to me is in the definition and implementation of boundaries and recognition and acceptance of certain emotions within myself. Your description of codependancy as a cluster of traits makes more sense to me as I clearly display some traits but not others.

        1. Indy says:

          Hi DJ,
          That is partly it, yes, for sure. Though co-dependence is not just low self esteem/self-worth, though they do go hand in hand. Since this is HGs blog, I do wish to respect that he has his definitions and uses this term in a very specific manner here. I do not wish to disrespect it by plugging the mental health/12- step definitions too much, out of that respect.

          With that said, I do think it is important for folks that have been told they are “co-dependent” by mental health providers that the definitions used are likely different from one another. I was originally confused when I came here by the difference and now I understand more, it is HGs way of organizing the different players in the interactions. I have some opions on the use of the name, given the confusion that arises, though, to be honest, this happens in diagnostics too in general.
          To comment further, I would only do so with HGs permission as I highly value his work in narcissism and sociopathic behaviors and he has personally helped me get out by his amazing work. As such, I am reluctant to say more unless approved by him. I sense it may overstep a boundary in this blog, though I hope not. Either way, I will respect his wishes on this.
          HG? Is my bringing up and highlighting the differences in the definition of co-dependence too confusing and in conflict with this blog? If so, I will avoid commenting further.
          Thank you in advance for your response,

      2. windstorm2 says:

        Indy, “let go, let God” is my favorite of the al-anon sayings too! For many years my mother in law had it on a bumper sticker on the back of her car. I thought it was the stupidest saying I’d ever heard! Then one day I saw it and it made total sense to me. It’s been the basis of my personal philosophy ever since.
        As we grow and change over time, our awareness changes too. For many years my father in law tried to beat into my head that the only person who could make me upset was myself. No one else – no matter what horrible things they did. Only I controlled my emotions. Took a long time for that one to sink in too.

        1. Indy says:

          Me too, me too. It took a long time for me to understand that lesson and that I had no power over others with regard to them changing. I can only change myself. I also adore the serenity prayer. When I first learned it, I used to mess up and instead of “saying God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.” , I would start off by saying, “God grant me the power”…LOL…..And, that was the problem!!! I wanted the power to change others…LOL. Silly me!

          1. windstorm2 says:

            Yeah, Indy, I know what you mean. I never wanted the power to change others, but I wanted them to wake up and change their behavior to stop making me unhappy. My father in law was constantly telling me that no one ever made me upset, I just allowed myself to become upset. I fought that concept for years!! But he was right. Once I understood that, my life became so much happier and joyful! My father in law was the most dangerous narc I’ve ever personally known, but he was very wise!

          2. Indy says:

            Indeed, wise. And Sounds like someone I would not wish to anger. Sounds like somebody we know that likes to moderate blogs😉

          3. windstorm2 says:

            There are many similarities, Indy! They both enjoyed educating and weaponizing empaths! 😄

          4. 12345 says:

            That made me laugh Indy!! I’m in a 12 step program and I totally get “God grant me the power”. If only! That’s fantastic😂

      3. Love says:

        Hi Indy,
        I would love to read your definitions and variations on the names. I did not see Mr. Tudor say ‘no’. So please do so. I’ve never been diagnosed as a co-dependent by any of my therapists, yet I completely fit the description of a codependent as defined by Mr. Tudor.
        “Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.” I never go back to the original but have invariably sought new relationships with only narcs.
        It is interesting how most commentators treat the word ‘codependent’ like a filthy curse. I don’t have any problem being called one. Yes, I’ve been one – and most likely am still one. I am definitely practicing more self love and care now – yet I cannot deny who I am nor what I am drawn to. I do not aspire to be a Super empath, super nova, super hero. I have no desire to unleash cold or hot or lukewarm narcy fury on any of my former lovers. Nor do I see myself becoming an empath warrior fighting all narc villains of this world.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I did not need to say ‘no’ because Indy was respectful enough not to advance the point any further. She knew where to stop.

          1. Love says:

            Okie dokie. Understood. My only question is what is the difference between the clinical definition of a codependent and your definition Mr. Tudor? I identify with yours.

    3. DJ says:

      I’ve been through this too ‘if he’s a narc you must be co dependant’ thinking by so called professionals. I turned the tables on him big time before my escape and spent a while wondering if I was the narc. Thank you again HG another penny has dropped 🙂

  49. 12345 says:

    Hi HG! Can you assess which type you have ensnared in the beginning? Maybe in the golden period?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I can assess the type when I am targeting.

      1. 12345 says:


      2. Angelic says:

        But you said that the Emphat will get in a super nova mode after she had enough if the abuse and she will fight back ( like, i think i am doing)
        Therefore, how can you asses her before that?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          One recognises the strength of traits in an individual to gauge the capacity for being able to do this. It is not an exact science of course, but repeated involvement with empathic people allows me to identify those who would be co-dependent, those who are standard empaths, those who are super empaths and to then identify the traits of the cadres as well. Once you know what you are looking for, it is not especially difficult.

      3. Angelic says:

        ohhhhh.. okay

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