Love or Hate



Which do you prefer? Love or hate? This is something that I am asked and of course it is a pertinent question which is relevant to the issue of fuel. When I am asked this question, it tends to be as an adjunct to other considerations such as: –

–         Why can’t you just always want the positive fuel from someone? Let them give you love all the time.

–         Why does somebody hating you make you feel more powerful than somebody loving you?

–         Are you addicted to causing pain so you can get negative fuel from somebody?

So, what do my kind and me prefer? Do we prefer to be loved or do we prefer to be hated? The answer is; it depends on the nature of the appliance.

As I have explained before, the appliances which supply us with fuel are broken down into three groups. Primary, secondary and tertiary. Our attitude as to the type of fuel that is preferred is governed by the source.

Tertiary – this includes groups such as strangers and remote strangers. We are pretty even-handed when it comes to our preference of the type of fuel we receive from those in the tertiary group. Positive fuel is welcomed, so for example we might be complimented on our car by a passing stranger or we may receive an admiring smile because we look good when we get into a lift. Indeed, if we are at an event and we receive acknowledgement and applause from a crowd of people then this is a considerable positive provision of fuel from their admiration. This serves our purpose in receiving fuel and maintain our façade. We are however content to draw negative fuel from strangers for instance by upbraiding a waiter for being slow to serve us or criticising the behaviour of somebody in the street. Their reaction of indignance, annoyance or upset will provide us with negative fuel and in many instances treating somebody in this manner will not damage our façade as we will be selective as to when we engage in this. Keep in mind that often we will seek a negative reaction even though that person has not done anything wrong, as this amplifies their emotional response. If the waiter has been slow, he will apologise as he recognises his service has been sub-standard. This provides fuel. If he has been prompt but it is denigrated for his service and it is done in a haughty and arrogant manner, he will not be able to keep his expression from belying his real feelings (even if he doesn’t air them) and thus the fuel garnered is even greater. It is even better if he erupts and is unable to keep his feelings under control as the fuel will burst from him.

This treatment of a tertiary source in this manner is often done as part of a triangulation. It will be done to impress another source that is with us, possibly a group of inner circle friends or the intimate partner. Thus we exhibit our confidence and lack of acceptance for shoddy service. The tertiary source provides fuel from being criticised and the other source provides a positive response for seeing us acting in such a masterful and demanding way. Even if the other source does not approve of how we have spoken to someone and reacts to us, it does not matter, because, yes, you’ve guessed it, it is yet more fuel.

Since the tertiary source is not someone we rely on for repeated provision of fuel it does not matter to us if they withdraw and will not have anything to do with us ever again. It is not hard to engage with tertiary sources as they are everywhere. We do not need to seduce them or cultivate a relationship with them in order to draw fuel. Tertiary sources either provide it just by seeing us or at the slight prompt from a comment or remark from us, whether it is positive or negative.

Secondary – we prefer positive fuel from our secondary sources. The secondary sources include colleagues, friends and family members. This is not to say that negative fuel is not collected from secondary sources, it is and I shall deal with that below, but it is usually positive fuel that we take from our secondary sources. We do this because the secondary sources are where our coterie comes from and where our Lieutenants lurk. By treating them well we secure their obedience (although sometimes we may need to lash out to ensure compliance) and therefore we are more likely to achieve what we want. As I have explained in the past, we draw three main things from our victims (and by victim I mean everybody we interact with)

  1. Fuel;
  2. Traits and characteristics for our construct to claim as our own;
  3. Residual benefits (money, accommodation, resources, assistance)

Whilst these can be obtained from tertiary sources, that group is mainly reserved for the provision of fuel.

The secondary sources provide all three of the above and therefore by keeping them around and ensuring that they like, love and adore us, we are more likely to achieve the receipt of these three items.

The secondary source is where the façade comes from. Accordingly, we do not want a range of people hating us and agreeing with you as the primary source. We want a solid and loyal wall of people who are in complete agreement that we are decent and wonderful.

We also do not rely on the fuel provision from secondary sources anywhere near as much as we do from the primary source. This is for two reasons:

  1. There are more people who can be secondary sources. In theory, the number is limitless; and
  2. We see the secondary sources less often, speak to them less often, message them less often than the primary source.

Thus we have variety and less reliance which means that it is almost impossible that we will find the fuel of one secondary source to be stale which would result in discard. Indeed, the discard of a secondary source is more likely to happen because they have worked us out and do not wish to engage with us anymore (thus they stop providing fuel altogether) or they have moved away and our interaction is so intermittent as to be useless to us. A further reason for the discard of the secondary source is if they defy our instructions and become a traitor. We may devalue them but it usually is far more effective to cut them adrift and recruit somebody else. This will happen to a family member who turns against us, or a friend is disloyal. They will be isolated, shunned and used to triangulate with – “Do what I want or you will end up like Peter, remember him? Nobody sees him around these days after what he did.”

We are rarely short of being able to attract new appliances to be our secondary sources.

Accordingly, for these reasons we are far more likely to draw positive fuel from the secondary sources and we prefer for them to adore us, admire us and love us. We may draw sexual partners from the secondary sources. They will not be crowned as a primary source but rather this will be done to keep them close to us, to coerce them to do our bidding and of course to provide us with fuel during the sexual act.

Thus, it is secondary sources who can find themselves in almost perpetual golden periods as they keep providing us with positive fuel.

Primary – this is the group that most people find themselves in when they have had an encounter with our kind. In terms of the reaction we want from our primary source (who is almost always an intimate partner) we of course want a positive one. We hope that this lasts forever because the primary source, as the name suggests, is the appliance which gives us the most fuel, most often and to the highest degree. With such a high standard to maintain in terms of amount, frequency and potency, the primary source is also the appliance which runs the greatest risk of malfunctioning and that fuel dropping off. It may be less, it may not be provided as often as it should and/or its potency may well have been reduced, either because it has become too familiar and/or the provider is not making the effort to maintain its potency.

You may think that when this happens, why not just discard and put in place a new primary source who will start with new positive fuel afresh? A valid question. We do not because: –

  1. This would take time and therefore we would be without a primary source for a certain length of time. Our fuel levels would drop and this would be detrimental to us.
  2. There needs to be a near seamless shift between primary sources. This would not happen in the scenario above.
  3. You must be punished for failing us, hence the devaluation.
  4. The negative fuel is very powerful. Of course, we cannot draw that straight away from a primary source otherwise if we commenced the relationship by hurting somebody they would leave us and thus the fuel source would be lost. We need to bind you to us first through the seduction and golden period so that when the devaluation begins you will not depart but rather stay and provide us with the negative fuel.
  5. The negative fuel provides us with the power to seduce a replacement primary source which we will attach and then discard you.
  6. The negative fuel is so powerful because it is harder to make someone cry, become angry, frustrated and so forth compared to the presentation of positive emotions. Being able to do this to someone underlines the nature of our power over the primary source.
  7. The negative fuel is powerful because of the contrast it affords us when compared to the positive fuel.

Since the primary source is the person who provides us with most of our fuel, it is they who are subjected to this need for both positive and negative fuel. We also keep moving between the two (the contrast causing the fuel to remain potent) and this is why we switch so often and seemingly without warning.

So, do we want you to love us or hate us? It all depends on where you fit into the various appliances that we have attached to us.

27 thoughts on “Love or Hate

  1. Twilight says:

    Eye contact for a brief moment, much can be conveyed
    SMH love/hate
    Would this changes things HG? It has been quite for a while now
    It was in crossing at a stop light looking directly at each other

  2. Me says:

    He loved me… and I guess hated me when I criticized him and when I left. So lost at the moment… does he even know how this passed Hoover episode hurt me? Convinced me yet again to meet.. I took down the wall and said yes.. only to get “later”… then when I pulled away … again Hoover and photos, talking about memories
    … wanting to meet and then nothing!!!
    Last time … absolutely the last time. I am strong and have even deleted the e-mail account so there is no channel of communication open.
    He is too afraid to call me but the phone is blocked as of today.
    I’ve been reading and crying the whole weekend… damn it!
    Back in the saddle …. new week tomorrow and a busy schedule is finally going to help me this time.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Keep reading. He never loved you. He is incapable of love. That was you loving yourself and he merely reflected it back to you to control you. When you can accept that it will get easier.

      1. 12345 says:

        NarcAngel, it hurt but it was almost a relief to learn he never loved me. It’s true. Once you finally get the truth and swallow it you can indeed move on. I had a struggle really believing it for a month or so. It truly is like grieving a death. It’s hard to move out of the shock phase and on to the next phase. But I found that I had to go through each one to get anything close to healing. I tried so hard to skip steps in grieving. I’m stuck in anger right now. I still give too much of my energy to the memories. My goal is apathy.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          I should qualify here that I have never loved one or thought they loved me. I dont even know what that is except that I know I dont feel what others describe it as, and I sure as shit know it wasnt what I witnessed that my mother thought was love from stepnarc. Its funny you say relief. Ive heard that before and its almost like people are waiting to be released by the other party because otherwise they feel they dont have the right to accept more for themselves or stop trying to fix things. A compulsion. Thats an observation-not a criticism. When you think about it now, do you think the shock was more that they are so magnificent in fooling others or that you believe yourself to be intelligent and confident yet this happened to you? I hate giving all of the credit to the narc but in my opinion a lot of people are happy to give it to them because they would have to accept something uncomfortable about themselves otherwise. The fact that they allowed it when they did not trust their gut. Why would anyone want to accept that they allowed themself to be abused? Or believe that there is only this one person on planet Earth who could fulfill you? So they give the credit (laying the blame really) to the narc. I am not trying to assign blame by saying that, but rather that if you dont get to that point with yourself that it is likely to happen again (and again…). I think anger is always better than the alternative but then im comfortable there. I think of it as your brain now saying to you: i will not protect you anymore with kind and comforting thoughts to protect yourself with and allow you to stay a slave to them. A victim. You will now be angry and that will allow you to move on to apathy and then to the life you choose for yourself once you stop allowing others to choose it for you. The clock is ticking for all of us. Do we really want to spend any more of it mourning an apparition?

          1. 12345 says:

            “its almost like people are waiting to be released by the other party because otherwise they feel they dont have the right to accept more for themselves or stop trying to fix things. A compulsion.” That articulates exactly how it felt. Exactly. I knew I needed to end it but I didn’t think I was worth it!

        2. Ms brown says:

          12345… try to make your final goal “Zero Impact”

      2. Me says:

        Thanks dear! He “loved” my fuel.. I totally understand and only referred to HGs text.. you are absolutely right. He has no real (as we know it) feelings .. only looking for fuel.
        I did feel loved until I one day had enough and moved out. I had enough of being a maid, nanny and wallet. But I did feel loved.. only to get the horrible treatment when I said no…. and the abuse (silent treatments etc.) I guess that is what made it so hard… still is because he never existed.

    2. Matilda says:

      Been there, done that, Me. Him asking to meet is just a way to test his power over you… to see if you’re still the toy he can play with and toss aside as he pleases. It hurts like hell, but that’s really all there is to it.

      The best you can do now is to focus on your well-being… be kind to yourself… and ignore him completely.

      1. Me says:

        I am finally.. it’s been a long road to where I am at. Suddenly I get small but welcomed glimpses of old me back… and this passed week I even see a future. The darkness have been the worst.. so when weakening up from the “dead” it’s like it all happened yesterday. Saw (accidentally) a photo of him (not edited) and I was thinking .. he is ugly that man!!! All of my friends could not understand how I could lower my standards and get involved with him… O well, they were not there for the love bombing and conditioning. Red flags everywhere and a gut feeling.. and still I fell for it!
        HG just wrote to me about the N (ex) “emotional infection” that I have been subjected to. I now realize it was there from day one….
        Still at times hard to fathom what the hell happened and it’s been hard not to chase the illusion.
        Thank you for your kind words

      2. Matilda says:

        You’re welcome!

        Good for you that you are on your way back to your old self! 😀

        Oh, yes, I remember the darkness and despair, the longing… but it gets better with time and No Contact… there will be setbacks, and you might fall for a few more hoovers, sometimes the grief will hit you out of the blue… that’s normal, so don’t worry if it happens.

        It’s not so much about their appearance, but about the way they make you feel, conning you into believing they shared your hopes and dreams…

        The only way out of this hell is to educate yourself, so, keep reading! 🙂

  3. Jenna says:

    Pls HG you need to stop relying on negative fuel! You can do it!!

  4. M. says:

    Some years ago, there was another narcissist in my life. He had a specific monthly routine:Week 1: I was his absolute queen, he melted, could not live without me. Week 2: All was sweet and fine. Week 3: something was wrong, I couldn’t detect what, but there were slight disappearances, some not so polite comments, subtle complaints.Week 4: A big fight (he either started it or made me start it), cruelty, disappearance, blocking, silent treatment. It happened again and again. Every single month, the circle was the same. And, of course, the kind of fuel varied.

    1. Shannon says:

      The cycle with my husband is every 6-8 months. Like clockwork. It’s been more frequent recently since I’ve stopped responding.

      1. Ms brown says:

        eventually he will disengage and end the formal relationship. (probably, without your knowledge) as you are now not providing fuel (if not responding) best to plan your escape strategy now and implement it….

    2. Sarah says:

      Lack of fuel from other sources in his life? I often wondered if that was why mine ‘started’ with me… as well as other obvious reasons Giulia mentions above.

      1. Sarah says:

        Matilda, not Giulia.

  5. Matilda says:

    “… this need for both positive and negative fuel. We also keep moving between the two (the contrast causing the fuel to remain potent) and this is why we switch so often …”

    This is CRUCIAL for empaths to understand!

    The narc wants positive fuel to last. But her continuous compliance decreases the potency of her fuel! He then ‘spices things up’ by causing distress and feasts on her fresh, negative fuel. A respite period follows to keep her from numbing down too much, and malfunction altogether. That’s pretty f.d up!

    It’s the INTENSITY of her reaction that counts (not the kind of fuel) and him *causing* this reaction. That’s why NC or Grey Rock are such powerful strategies… the horror he must feel, realising he is no longer the puppet master. Hope it hurts.

  6. Sarah says:

    I was an IPPS, but would a Dirty Little Secret be a secondary source then, who doesn’t particularly know the other secondary source members (for good reason, hence the name)? I remember that a Dirty Little Secret can become an IPPS though – as well as a secondary.

    Maybe a tertiary Dirty Little Secret, in the form of a prostitute or a one night stand?

    Thank you for the recap HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A DLS is an IPSS. I can conceive that they might be tertiary as in a prostitute but usually the DLS is an IPSS because their fuel is potent and is dipped into frequently but only for short periods of time.

      1. Sarah says:

        Oh. I see. Thank you.

      2. Sarah says:

        So, a narcissist can be void of an IPPS as long as he has an IPSS who gives him plenty of fuel. Maybe even have to settle with that if they’re single for a period of time, along with other secondary sources for positive fuel. Can the negative fuel from a DLS be potent enough to satisfy?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Dependent on fuel levels, the extent of supplementary supplies and the nature of the narcissist alongside the access to the IPSS (and it usually more than one) there can be a period of time without an IPPS.

          1. Sarah says:

            This explains a lot – muchos grassyass HG.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No problemo amigo.

  7. strongerwendy says:

    You’re over 4.5 million hits. Will we get another contest at 5 million and can it be a writing prompt? 😊

  8. SVR says:

    HG don’t do that to a beautiful heart. Bad man. 😈

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