Poll – Which Form of Manipulation Affected You The Greatest?

POLL

There are many different forms of manipulation used throughout the narcissistic dynamic and these methods vary dependent on the relevant stage, whether it is the seduction, the embedded golden period, the devaluation and post dis-engagement or post-escape.

I am interested to know which form of manipulation during devaluation affected you the most and ten of the most common forms of manipulation are included in the poll below. If the one which affected you the most is not listed, then choose the one which affected you there second or third most, from the preferred list. Do also, in the comments explain why the particular form of manipulation affected you as it did.

Thank you for participating.

Which of the following forms of manipulation affected you the greatest?

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268 thoughts on “Poll – Which Form of Manipulation Affected You The Greatest?”

  1. Hi Indy,

    Thank you for your reply. I thought it felt intentional also, like either he was covering his ass just in case I got upset with him later, or maybe he was trying to make me think he cared in some way, or trying to see if I’d run away when he said it? It stuck with me our entire year-long (online) relationship.

    I’m not sure what class of narc he is. He is married with kids. He was sex-obsessed, online daily (with someone, not always me) and I think he hooks up in person a lot more than he admitted to me. However, he is not a classic somatic in that he was not obsessed with looking perfect, etc. The way he messed with my head makes me wonder if he is somehow a combo of cerebral and somatic?

    As for being a Greater, that is a really good question. We had an online relationship so I wouldn’t know if he rages in his daily life, but he never handled frustration online with me the way a lesser would. He generally argued in a pissy/defensive way and projected his own crap all over me, He didn’t go completely off that I could tell. However, again, maybe i just didn’t see it.

    He never tried to get money from me, but he demanded I sext other guys, then wanted screen shots. He claimed this was so he could “watch” and get off to me enjoying others. However, it felt like it was about controlling. When I refused to share the person’s name or pics, and only sent texts, he said I cared more about this total stranger than him, and that he loved me, and that my hiding and holding things back wouldn’t hurt if he didn’t love me. He then said he would start pursuing someone else more (he knew that would hurt me) if I wasn’t going to share with him the way he wanted. He was really good at arguing things in a way that were hard to dispute. If he was ignoring me and I asked if he had a “new toy” (new supply), he would say no, his kids are sick and he’s just busy, and that my accusation was hurtful.

    He was very convincing. I shared his screen shots with two friends to get their take on it. One said “he’s a master manipulator but I can see through him.” The other said, “He could be, or he could be sincere.”

    1. Indy, to add on to the previous message as if it’s not long enough… lots of other things he did that felt very calculated. He knew I wanted to be restrained by a lover, but also that I had been sexually assaulted in college and violated by a massage therapist a few years ago. So he knew I wanted to feel like I could talk about my fantasy. We would sext in the context of him forcing me to do things in his car next time we met (we ended up not meeting again)… and in fantasy it was hot. But then he’d say “If you meet me again, you’re agreeing to this.” Or “if we meet again it’s because you want me to violate you.” I had to ask why he said that and he said “of course I’m not going to force you in real life, but I’m trying to make the fantasy very real for you. Why are you creating drama instead of just trusting me?” It’s a very believable argument on his end, but my friends were terrified he would get violent if ever got a room with him.

      In person he was very harmless looking and disarmed me when I saw him. I got in his car and was alone with him. It kind of felt like he was a blank state until I told him I was nervous and then he said he was too. I was the one to initiate the first kiss but when I did, he took my breath away. Was never forceful and we only made out a few min. But if I had been in a hotel room he could have changed. Who knows?

      1. Hi Mary,

        Your description interested me, he sounds like he has that intense draw about him. Of course, HG could answer any questions that you have much better than I , im still practicing identifying so just my guesses….
        So, part of me wants to guess upper mid range, though he could have used the mirroring of your nervousness when you met yo make you more open to be willing to have sex if he acted nervous too. The pissy comments, were they like self-pity or passive aggressive or Sulky? Midrangers are kings of the sulk and pity plays! They pout. 😂 (I had an ex midranger, I know). I know based on what you shared I would have worried about you too, especially the risk of rape. I’m glad you are ok. I myself took risks in my 30s in dating that worried my friends, though there was this excitement I craved. It’s hard to give up. Did he live far or close to you? How often did you see each other? Have you left him? I know one thing, that type of sex can be very intensely exciting, hard to give up and addictive.

        Given his intense sexual needs, I’m guessing he is definitely not a pure cerebral. Likely has that somatic part, at minimum, like you said. Was he smart and intellectual as well? If so, he’s possibly an Elite. Was he really charming? Not just sexy charming but did he make you feel great, like a drug, when you had nonsexual conversation? Successful career? Or did he have addictions that hurt his life?

        I hope it’s ok I ask these and anything you do not wish to answer, I completely understand. Feel free to ask back too.

        Glad you made it here! Are you new here?

      2. Just reading this frightens me for you, Mary. I think I agree with your friends. Hugs to you.

      3. Windstorm2: Thank you and hugs to you.

        Indy: Thank you for your reply and feedback on this. I only met him in person one time. It still baffles me that an almost strictly online relationship could fuck with me so much. He wrote me from a gaming app and guys did that to women constantly but I always deleted their come on. I was there for trivia games. Lol This guy though, I felt he had more to him so I answered.

        He was charming from the beginning and seemed genuinely into getting to know me. He admitted he is married and just looking for fun, he’s had two affairs he said. He said he’d never leave his family and wanted me to know up front so I don’t get hurt. But then he said he did care for one of his affair partners so much that he prob would have left his wife for her, but she stayed in her marriage. It made me feel like okay he won’t likely leave wife, but he’s capable of developing more than just sex with me. I kind of wonder though now if his intent in saying that was to spark a hope that maybe he’ll want that with me too?

        He said he’s online looking to get his needs met. That he wants it to be fun and no one be hurt and he despises drama. He said that night 1 which is odd since there was no drama at that point, why bring it up. But he said he knew I was new to sexting (I told him) and just wanted to be open with me so I don’t get hurt. It all seems relatively safe doesn’t it? He’s being so open.

      4. More in reply to Indy… I wanted to send the first reply first so I don’t have to worry about phone screwing up mid text. It freezes on here some.

        We live about 2 hours apart, but with us both married that was an issue with meeting. After a couple weeks of chatting he was going to be in my area for a meeting so we planned to just meet in a public area just to say hi. He decided not to though, said he’s worried my hub will catch me and he doesn’t want to affect my marriage. Then a year later we had this convo where I told him I felt like he’d been manipulating me this entire time, he brought up the “not meeting because I didn’t want hub to catch you” incident. He said “if you haven’t figured out by all this time that I truly care about you, who I am, I don’t know how to convince you. If I was just looking to fuck you and dump you, I could have last year when I decided to not meet.” And it made sense, unless he did that whole “not meeting” to give the impression he cared.

        We talked for 7 months before meeting in person. He was always hot and cold. But when hot it was sooo hot. We went on kik mostly and sexted and then a little skyping but I liked what his written words did to me more than Skype. We talked often even if not sexting. When he’d go quiet, I was so bummed but then he’d come back all “I missed you!” It felt insincere though. If he missed me so much, why go quiet all that time.

        One time we had been sexting a week non stop and skyping and him caring about my orgasms more than his. Then he said “I’ll be passing through town in two hours. How about we meet 20 min just to say hi.” I waffled but agreed to. I was on such high. I had on a dress that day and looked nice so why not. We met in a hotel parking lot at his suggestion. Said it’s more private than Starbucks but enough traffic I don’t feel like I’m unsafe. I brought a knife from my work place in my purse. Just in case. I told him I was not going to get in his car. That I had been assaulted in college and had to be careful.

        The minute I saw him I just wanted to be in his arms. I felt like he may break my heart but not hurt me physically. I went over and hugged him and his arms felt so safe and good. I got in his car with the intent of just chatting a bit and maybe a kiss. I said “I’m an idiot to get in here.” And he said “No, don’t say that. I’m the least harmful person to you. The least harmful person you can meet. I have a family! You’ve seen in pictures I have a family and am a normal guy.” I looked at him and he just looked at me until I reached for his hand and kissed him. Then he kissed me with so much passion and intensity I couldn’t breathe. I could barely kiss back. I told him I haven’t been kissed that way ever and am out of practice. He kept kissing saying “guess you’ll have lots of practice.” Then he asked if I want him to unzip so I can see it. I said ok. Then he said “get your finger wet with my juices and put them in my mouth.” I did. Then he kissed me even more hungrily and looked at me with such lust and wanting.

        He started to touch me but I had to warn him of something. I told him I know it could be a deal breaker. I told him I have an std I caught in college and it’s harmless and I have no symptoms and my hub never wants to use protection and a boyfriend before my hub didn’t either and they never caught it, so I don’t think I’m contagious. But you should know. And I said “I didn’t know if we’d ever meet and there’s no reason I needed to tell you this if we didn’t meet.” He was polite, said he understood that, but I felt the passion just leave his face and he seemed fidgety, nervous. He didn’t even ask what I had! I wasn’t expecting him to be all “now I need to get home.” I expected us to not have sex. But I didn’t expect him to stop even kissing me. I said “shit, I ruined this” and he said no, he just needed to get home…

        We kept chatting but he would start to sext me and then say he had to go. I’d catch him on Skype right after. I felt like he was repulsed by me. I finally asked why he never asked any questions about things I shared that day. He said he didn’t want to be intrusive because I had expressed not wanting to have to share that stuff. So he asked about the rape and seemed to care somewhat. But still not the std.

        Weeks later he finally asked what I have. I told him herpes. I was told I have it but my hub and one other guy never caught it and I didn’t have signs after the first time. (I was tested this year for it too, my doc said blood test is more accurate… and I tested negative! So I don’t appear to actually have it but I never told him this.) Anyway… so he’s said all along “you’ll never leave your hub” even knowing I feel like I will. Cause my hub never wants me. Sex 3 times a year isn’t enough. And other issues. So my narc said “Now I know you’ll stay married for sure. You really want to have to date all over again and tell a new guy a deal breaker like that?” I explained that it’s not a deal breaker to someone that cares and this is something like 1 in 6 adults have! I said “are you my friend? Became if you are, why are you using this to make me feel like I shouldn’t make a better life for myself?” He said “it’s because I’m you’re friend I’m being real with you.” More in a bit… need to send message.

      5. Part 3 of my reply to Indy: and I won’t go on much longer, I just haven’t shared the full story here before. Up until this point in our relationship, his explanations made sense and I felt like he could be manipulating me, or he could be honest just as well, so I stayed in touch. I expressed my insecurity that he’d stopped pursuing me because of the std. because full on sex stopped being an option so he no longer had any use for me. He said that’s not the case and he hasn’t ruled out sex. Then I said “my being insecure must be a turn off for sure.” He said “No, on the contrary. You being insecure means I’m in your head and that’s a turn on.” That seemed like a bizarre thing to say.

        Around Christmas my husband and I had a fight (he was raging at our elderly dog) and he spewed rage at me and called me a fucking piece of shit. I told my hub “I’m done” and thought I meant it.

        I shared this with my narc online and he said he was sorry I lived like that. He started being way more attentive and consistent! This is what I had wanted! To be his favorite plaything. He demanded I be his slut. That I tell him I’ll do anything he asks. It was fantasy so I told him. He sent me vids of him getting off while reading my messages. In one of them he had this smug look on his face. I wish I’d kept it. It was almost a look of “I have her right where I want her” and it stuck with me. Our chats got really out there. He told me he wants to include a cross dresser in our sex. Sure, it’s fantasy so why not. He wanted me to sext tons of guys and share the convos with him. But if I held back their name and pics, he said I must have something to hide. He said I would always be his favorite if I didn’t hold out on him. I didn’t share the other guys info even then, but the fact he used my insecurity. That hurt.

        One night we were fantasizing and he tells me he had a guy in his mouth for real when he was a kid. This is just before climax. It feels like it’s to mess with my head. He said “I’ve never shared that with anyone.” Then he said he fantasizes about raping his neighbor. Asked if it’s ok to use that word. Then he said we can’t climax because he’s tired and has looked at porn earlier. It felt like all this was a game. I asked if he lost interest. He said no. He knew I was insecure at that moment.

        Next day at work, he’s sexting me and I was just glad he still wanted to. But we’re getting into it and I said “I hate you for making me want you so much.” He said “You hate that you want to write me first, but wait for me to message you so you don’t seem desperate?” Ouch! Then he said “You hate that I can cut you off completely one night, then have you the next day as soon as I want?” OUCH! That felt like gloating!!! I asked it he was playing games with me. He said “This is no game. I’m owning you.” I still finished with him but felt sick. I went quiet for a day feeling hurt and confused. Then he writes “24 hours away? Good job.” Wtf was that, more gloating? We had a long talk and he said he wasn’t playing games but it I went quiet on him, I was gaming him. I told him i felt humiliated by what he said about being able to cut me off then have me right away. Because that was real. He said he only meant it in fantasy. He swore he wasn’t trying to cut me off the night before, but he had gone out of his way to kill the mood. Still by the end of our talk, I felt like I was taking it all to seriously and I had been the one to hurt him. He said “you think I’d play a year long game? You think I could find what you and I have with anyone else?” I melted.

        One time later we Skype and he kept calling me before i was even home. Like he had to push my boundary there. On Skype he said he likes it better than sexting so he can see all my reactions. I said I want to kiss him. He said “Like that day in the car. I bet you kiss better when you aren’t nervous.” Wtf did he bring that up for? He knew I was worried I hadn’t kissed well. I tried to brush it off. We still played and later that night he said he wants me to find the massage therapist who violated me years ago, and he wants to watch him fuck me. I said “I don’t want him. He was a predator.” My narc said “and you were prey.” I said “To him I was.” He said “And to me. Willing prey.” Then he told me he loved me and the night we had.

        He eventually went quiet again and then I had a week where he wanted to chat and I felt nothing for him! Then he went quiet. Then he started saying he wants to meet again. He started pursuing the hell out of me one Tuesday. And I think he wanted me to blow off my weekly drinks with my girlfriends but I told him “we will discuss this later tonight.” He kept on asking don’t I want to make our fantasies happen, etc and I did! I want to so bad. I said “We will continue this tonight.” And then with my friends I was reminded how many times I had said I wanted to end it while he’s pursuing me. So I feel empowered and not just end it when he’s ignoring. So that’s what I did. I never went back to him. He was expecting me to go out to text him that night and be his willing, waiting dog. I never went back. One time I opened the app accidentally and my stomach dropped it made me feel sick. There was no signal so it didn’t load any messages. I took this sick feeling as a sign to delete the app, and I did. Haven’t gone back.

        But it’s been 2 months and even now I still crave him. I still wonder what if he was harmless and I misjudged him too harshly. What if my friends just didn’t understand him like I did, and I let their well intended warnings cloud my feelings for him. Even today after reading stuff on HG’s blog and the comments I relate to, I still wonder what if I was wrong to end it with no goodbye? But if I said goodbye he’d suck me right back in. Prob so he could discard me first.

        End of long third message. You’re prob exhausted if you read all this. I can be a draining person.

      6. Part 4 in reply to Indy: According to him he was an accountant and self employed. But another time he said he works for a firm. I looked up every accountant with his first name in his area, but the ones I found had pics and didn’t look like him. So he lied about something I assume. Maybe all of it. He could be an accountant with a diff name or he could be a lumberjack in Alaska but I think he prob isn’t that far from me or he wouldn’t have targeted me.

        His persona was funny, a smartass in a good way mostly. He was catholic. Very conservative but I think that’s not good he is inside. Not with the We met during election season and had polar opposite views. our first of 3 arguments were over it because he kept attacking me and who I support and I didn’t want to fight on that cause I’m not interested in convincing him over to my side. I wanted to agree to disagree and just enjoy a little healthy debate but he attacked. And I generally didn’t bite back. The one time I did, I was still respectful, addressing his comments one by one, calmly. but he then ignored me a week, then came back and said “I think we should say goodbye before this gets uglier. I feel myself wanting to say things that I shouldn’t.” I said “but it didn’t need to get ugly.” He still ended it. I asked him if he felt like I had said something upsetting to him and he said no.

        A month later he was back, saying “Miss me?!” And I had. Damn it. That was his first discard I guess. Or it was a test to see if I’d take him back. Politics never came up again. A few times he mentioned watching a debate and I didn’t even reply to that part because it felt like bait.

        To add to the stuff he was into sexually, he liked talking about wanting to fuck me abd then go home and fuck his wife after, with me still on him. He told me when he does her he isn’t satisfied because he wants me in his bed and it’s all he thinks about. He wanted me to degrade her verbally at times during sexting. He had shared his wedding pic with me and wants to fuck me in the ass while forcing me to look at his wedding pic to her. The last time we played he insisted I talk about how much I hate my hub. I did this stuff and am ashamed. It’s not what I liked. But it was fantasy and no one was hurt in person and if they didn’t know it was said, and I didn’t mean it, I reasoned that it was harmless. But the truth was that stuff prob had nothing to do with degrading his wife. Him taking me into saying that shit was degrading to me.

        I still feel so angry at myself for being taken in. It sickens me. And yet even now, I still miss him and how wanted he made me feel. But I don’t miss feeling degraded.

      7. Indy, just realized in the ridiculously long responses above lol, I meant to ask what was it that initially drew you to your mid-ranger? And is he the one you’ve been No Contact from a year in just a couple of days? I’m so glad you broke free. Hugs!

      8. He was smart, attractive, and funny. He also had this vibe of shyness at first and made self deprecating humorous comments. I found it a charming combination. Little did I know he was an ego maniac with an insecurity complex.

      9. Hi Indy,

        I would have found your ex charming also. When a guy can make us laugh AND think, it’s a turn-on in some ways. That and the apparent shyness can be a powerful combination. When someone appears shy, I tend to trust them more, to assume that they are on equal footing. But alas, your ex sounds like a total wolf in sheep’s clothing. 🙁

        My narc wasn’t shy online, but he appeared kind of quiet in person the one time we met, until we kissed and then his alleged nervousness went out the window. The first time we chatted online, he was also very polite and didn’t come across as full of himself.

      10. Hi Mary,
        Yes, totally agree that that combination reduces our guards and increases a sense of trust. He did this very well. It is funny you say a ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’. He was nick named “cries wolf” by his Boy Scout group 😆 I teased him about it and told him, “welllllllllll, you earned that”!

    2. Mary,

      Reading your posts make me feel sick. For you especially and for me.
      The things he made you do sound so utterly degrading. But I don’t blame you, you were hooked and I guess in a way you did those things to please him.

      If I had let Narchole, he would have gone down a similar route. But I stuck to my boundaries. It made me feel awful the times he tried to push things, and when started to use words that were degrading.

      I think of the way he use to be in the golden period and compare to the last times and continue to wonder how there can be such a change.

      Your friends are correct. Master manipulators that are very convincing and literally charm the pants off you.

      Don’t be angry at yourself for still wanting him. I know exactly what you are feeling there as I am still in that boat. One minute I hate him, the next I’m wishing for the golden period again.

      The addictive part in us still wants them despite knowing what they and how they have treated us. But all trust is broken. And just remember everything is a lie.

      The pain of it all is so hard to deal with. Feels like it’s never going to go.
      All I can say is with time it will lessen.

  2. WHAT DO YOU CALL THIS BEHAVIOR? He used to say he liked me being insecure. “It means I’m in your head.” When I told him that was a bit creepy, he said it just means he likes that I think of him. But I know better now. Was that his mask slipping or something else?

    He did this a few times, saying things to tip me off that I can’t trust him, like when we were getting close he said “should I leave you be? it wouldn’t be fair for me to use my years of experience at this to manipulate your feelings?” And I thought why wouid you just assume you’re going to do that? Was he warning me? He later said he was just trying to keep me from getting hurt since he couldn’t ever leave his wife and kids.

    He said he wanted to own me. Then he said he was just meaning in fantasy (dominating me during sexting). But even so, it felt like he owned me at times still does if I can’t get him out of my head. Oh that too!!!
    What do you call that, saying things that are twisted during sexual interaction and then always saying it’s ok because it’s fantasy?

    1. Hi Mary,
      I think it could have been a test and a warning for sure. Maybe a tell or a slip, though it sounds a bit more intentional than a slip. In your opinion, was he a greater? Why I ask is that he sounds a bit intentional in it all, rather than instinctual.

  3. This is what I mean when I said our immune systems fight in different ways. Narcissists reject the wounded and abused ego, empaths embrace it and dwell in it

  4. Anyone else experience NLP as a form of manipulation? HG what are your thoughts? It’s not something I’ve seen discussed so far but I doubt I’m the only one here to have suffered its devastating impact..

    1. It is an undercurrent within other forms of manipulation.

      What is interesting, but not surprising about the results so far, is how the more voted for categories include more “self-generated” constraints – such as hope, guilt, fear, lack of knowledge as opposed to externally generated ones such as money, employment or housing issues. That underlines the prevalence of such behaviour in those chosen to be our victims and demonstrates how your treatment creates these imprisoning factors. It also demonstrates how problematic that becomes in terms of enlisting buy-in from the third parties.
      “I would leave and stay away from him but I am reliant on his income”
      “I would leave and stay away from him but I feel guilty about doing so”
      Not difficult to see which would be given a better reception by a third party.

      1. Preach!! Brings to mind something you said in your 5 million hits post about the symbiotic relationship between the empath & the narcissist.. It is indeed a macabre dance, a volcano meeting a tornado, magnetic, addictive, intense.. I was so under that spell I swear I can’t tell where her imprisonment of me ended & my helping her began.. I was addicted and utterly destroyed by the pain all at the same time but if I’d just walked away, it wouldn’t have got to the point where that trauma bond pain scared me too much to leave!! Like you say victim or volunteer.. I have no clear answer anymore..

      2. My Greater chooses younger women, not yet established financially, but on the right path, dreams and goals in mind but as yet unfulfilled.. In she steps older, wiser, money, cars, an empire as she calls it, she sells you your dream, she said to me everyone wants something, so she promises that missing piece you secretly ache for, then she uses it all to utterly destroy you.. Simples!!

      3. HG:
        I voted guilt, though hope (that I was wrong about my online narc) was prob what I should have selected because that is what led to guilty feelings.

        That said, in my marriage (I believe my hub is a type of narc, but an atypical one in ways), at many times I have thought of leaving, but ultimately what keeps me here probably IS related to finances and health. I don’t know if I could pay for rent, utilities, etc. and my own health insurance. That’s a very real concern for me. Also, I have chronic pain/fibromyalgia and disc trouble with my back so there are some things I need help with. I can’t truly rely on him to help when I need him, but in many cases he does. If he feels like it. However, if he is pissed at me, he will let me struggle to do something KNOWING it’s painful, and he will throw in my face what I said that upset him, even if it’s something I apologized for six months ago. Still, the times he does help me with something, I am grateful for that and living alone is scary for this reason. I do love my husband too, and there is also fear that I will choose someone after him who is much more dysfunctional and damaging.

  5. Good morning HG, and fellow survivors.. Absent silent treatment for me, the pain I was in because of the trauma bond I couldn’t even put it into words how that bad felt, but it was enough that I’d disassociate which was frightening at first but its worse still if you fight it, I cut through my hand with some scissors (by accident!!) I went shopping afterwards & looked down to see myself covered in blood but I couldn’t place why for the life of me.. I learnt quickly to stay away from the cooker, roads, cars.. Smh.. Of course who did I run to when it would hit? Who else!! I don’t even have to say it lol.. Twisted but she’d talk to me then!! So messed up!! I’d literally bare my soul because I had no control of my own tongue, she must have ate it up!! Grrrrrr!! Then on the flip slide, over time I could make it a little longer before it would happen, my tolerance grew, but that pain has never gone, never lessened any.. Then I’d beg God to let me disassociate, I begged God more than once to take my life. For someone with abandonment issues coming from an abusive childhood, silent treatments/trauma bonds are particularly vicious…. ‘I still can’t believe what I did for love..’ I was a stranger to myself the depths I’d sink to for…just…one..crumb .. PLEASE!! Grrrrrrr..

  6. Word salad!! I just about went mad with that. Because I had no idea what the hell he was talking about. No way of resolving ANYTHING!!! Now I know what it is I can see it clearly. Thanks HG.

  7. The future faking at the love bombing stage was what got me addicted, the idea of the continuation of that incredible love bombing phase into a fabled fantastic future. The promise of that fabled future was then trotted out during each of the subsequent hoovers.

  8. Hello Superxena

    So glad to hear back from you! Standing outside in the rain is the best, to stand outside in the middle of a thunderstorm, feeling the energy swirling around, lighting striking and feeling the power of it through the ground.

    Yes to master ones emotions is far from impossible, just rough in moments. Blunt truth with oneself in my opinion helps with this thou.

    1. Thank you Twilight!
      I am sort of “dipping ” in the blog sometimes but not so often lately…
      I like as well nature’s manifestations in all its forms. Particularly rain for me is something special,yes nature’s power so simple but at the same time fascinating…rain for me represents harmony…

      1. Hi Superxena

        Yes rain does so much, it has many healing properties. In nature after destruction comes beauty. It is a matter of letting things move and not hold on to what was meant to be for but a moment.
        For me I don’t see things any different with people, it is the choice to stay and hold on to the misery or take the knowledge acquired and grow.

      2. I agree with you completely Twilight. I think that people do always have a choice…
        And it is raining again here! It has to be my day today and if it wasn’t ..I will make it mine…as we said..Is a matter of “choice” so I choose it to be my day. Always rewarding talking to you.
        Best wishes

      3. Superxena

        I feel the same it has always been rewarding speaking with you.

        Yes we have a choice of how we shall live in the moment, in joy or misery.

        Peace be with you and enjoy YOUR day!

      4. Thank you Twilight! I wish you the same!! “”see” you here when the next common interesting topic comes up!!

  9. Honestly it’s difficult to pick only one… I went with gas lighting though because I know for myself, this was the most pervasive and damaging, allowing all other forms to be tolerated for as long as they were and somehow normal in the sense of that was just how things were/had deteriorated to. There are so many levels and degrees of gas lighting and I think a few listed above could technically fall under that same umbrella term.

  10. He began with silent treatments which were torture! After my first escape we became “friends” and the silent treatments stopped but the gas lighting began. To compare the two, gas lighting is the worse! Nothing damages a person more than to alter their recollection of events and perception.

  11. For me it was triangulation with the lesser and mid. Hell…i welcomed and encourage silent treatments from the lesser. The clashing was too much. He would mention this woman name and say she needed help or wanted to vent about boyfriend. Me ok.🤒 np I would talk with my ex in front of all the time. It was all good until it wasn’t. He would mention all these women wanted him to train them. Ok, although his body at the time was like Brad Pitts in Troy. Once he woke up (this was at the 2 year point off and on) and said that he was torn between me and the lady he had mentioned months before. Me(wtf) after slapping him. You do not have to feel torn bye go with her. The retard” you always accusing me of sleeping with her; I will call her so you can hear🤔” me: i dont need to hear. He calls ” her: hello” him: hey I am at my girlfriends house and she thinks we are together.” Her: (drop) the sexy voice ” what girlfriend? Him” my name ” I thought you said she was crazy when did you get back with her” 😀 He wasn’t telling the whole truth. Me: He said you were fat and he would never date you. Pause, she hangs up. His stupid arse ” I told you i wasn’t messing with her. Me (slap and throwing things at him) get the hell out of my house.

    That was one of the times, where even for me most things don’t surprise me. I was taken back 1. I hadnt questioned him, months earlier i made a off comment
    2. The night before i told him i needed another break and was going on mini vacay and my son was going to house sit
    3. He agreed and said i needed to hit the reset button.

    HG, thanks for all you do. You are empowered and you empower us with the tools too recognize this crazy making. For the record he just intensified my disorder. He cant take full credit.

    The mid was covert and so was his attempt to manipulate by triangulation. So, it never escalated because i ignored and reciprocated.😂

  12. Wey hey Indy..😊 Hello..

    Thanks hon..
    And…what a coincidence “Wolfie”.
    Great minds and good hearts eh…
    Ha ha.💖💝

    Yes..’Tude is the Dude’..like it.. lol..
    Good phrase.

    🌹Hope your peace also continues..
    Smiles and warmth to you🌹

    DW🐾😊👍

  13. @Twilight
    Hello Twilight..
    Your statement that :”he knows us better then we know ourselves” shocked me a little bit. I interpret it as you are giving entirely the power over you to someone else..
    It is just my opinion and I hope you do not take it personal…

    1. Superxena

      Oh no I take no offense in you stating your opinion on my thoughts.

      The way I see things is he has spent years observing and learning what makes us tick, which gives him knowledge on us, he has devised ways in which he can use this knowledge to obtain what he needs. He believes his survival depends on this.

      Let me put things another way if many of us find ourselves lost in the woods how many have the knowledge on what to do to survive, I am not talking a couple of days but months? Your knowledge on what to do will determine your survival. I know the details are different, bottom line is survival.

      Sadly many empaths have forgotten how to listen to respond but now listen to react.

      No different then in nature, the strong survive doesn’t matter if it is a lion or a deer. Just because we are at the top doesn’t mean we won’t bring our own demise. Look at technology, do you believe the next war will actually be nuclear or will it be cyber? Are we turning more robotic and losing our empathy? I do know we are in the mist of change.

      1. ANK

        Yes it is, which is one reason why I can see HGs view of being at war and it is him or them. Survival of the fittest.
        At one time we needed each other to survive, as technology expands we are becoming less dependent on each other for this survival. That will be our demise.
        To survive we need each other.

      2. Twilight
        I really agree with what you said about knowledge. I think that old “it’s the strong that survive” is overrated. Strength is a benefit for survival sure, but often intelligence is just as much or even more important. I’ll put my money on smart every time.

      3. Windstorm2

        Strength comes in many forms
        Intelligence is but one, knowledge is power.

      4. Windstorm2

        I do believe the strong servive, most think strength is physical and that is its meaning, to which is an illusion.

      5. Hello Twilight!
        Yes , I understand what you mean! But I think that even though you have all the knowledge and/ or strenght regarding a certain area..when it comes to survival I think that the key for surviving is being not emotional and instead being rational and sometimes even using your cold,hard logic…unfortunately it seems like it is so when it is an issue of survival…

      6. Hello Superxena

        I agree with you, one can have all the knowledge and physical strength needed, if they let emotions control the situation it could mean death. Mistakes are often made when one lets emotion override logic.

      7. Hello Twilight!
        Nice hearing from you!
        Oh,yes…agreed..Actually I am kind of experiencing that right now.. Tough balance,requires a lot of mental training.
        How are you?

      8. Hi Superxena

        I am doing great!! How are you? We have had some incredible thunderstorms recently here. Yet the woods come alive afterwards.

        It does take mental training for those of us on the more emotional side of things. Yet we are all emotional, just some are darker then others.

      9. Hello Twilight!
        Thank you I am fine. Good to know that your are also fine.We had a rain storm here as well for a couple of hours ago. I like when it rains though. Yes, emotions will always be there…tough balance…but practice makes the master…not an easy task though…

  14. HG,
    I found this question difficult to answer..I couldn’t really find the exact answer. After some reflection I came to the conclusion that he actually applied very specific,refined tools to manipulate me..that I assume were effective just for me to provoke an emotional reaction( that not necessarily has the same effect on another person )

    That brings me to ask you the following:
    I believe that you have not just “a tool kit” with manipulative techniques but an arsenal…Very specific to each person you entangle with…
    1. Since I assume you are extremely effective on “reading”/scanning people..When do you this scanning? During the golden period?
    2. How do you do the scanning?
    3. How long does it take for you to get the information you require for detecting vulnerabilities ?
    4. When you gather the information..Do you test them ( the techniques) often to see which tool is more effective for that person?

  15. Silent treatment and now the damn word salad!!! Messages filled with just nonsense and I used to fall for his shit!
    Just getting myself ready for when the new supply is out… I need to be ready to tackle the hoovers. I guess the recent hoovers was an indication of “not going well with new supply” but I did not fall for it!
    I have gone NC and he can use what ever horrible technique he wants… no more of his terrible silent treatments… he get the NC for ever now!

    1. Not going well with the new supply or the new supply is not around.

      I got sucked in by that. Looking back it was half term so she probably wasn’t available as she was most likely looking after her kids and or away with them and her husband. He hoovered me. Now the silent treatment.
      The last week has been awful, sent me spiralling down again. Kicking myself!

      I’m resisting the temptation to text him and call
      him out on the silent treatment. Probably get lies in return anyway. NC, NC, NC, NC……

  16. The fact that you have an ‘ultimate favorite’ form of manipulation is reason for concern!! 🙏😢🙏😣😳😖😫😫😫

  17. My environment’s energies are paramount to my emotional stability.
    When he moved another woman in who was supposed to be part of our polyamorous lifestyle …all of a sudden it was them asking me to join as if we weren’t all together but somehow I was the outsider.
    She would say peculiar, rude, angry, smarmy things at odd times and the blame was always because it was a side effect to her medication. I soon found out being a bitch was more centred to her nature than a side effect lol!!
    The emotional distance & angst was finally too much. I asked him when he would like me to move out…he said today is as good a day as any. He thought I would come crawling back but I escaped.
    Im still not sure if most of what was said to me by her wasnt instigated by some garbage talk on his part. Watching us fight & pitting us against each other was one of his favourite past times, I’m sure of it.
    He sucks, & now she’s in the same place I was a year ago & doesn’t see it. After the hell she helped put me through I hope she goes through the wringer.

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