The Five Devaluation Triggers



You will be familiar with the fact that one day you are cock of the walk and the next day you are a feather duster. You are atop the pedestal and in a flash you have been thrown from it and you are lying in the dust as we stand over you berating you. The sudden switch from hero to zero, from princess to pauper, from “good person” to “bad person” is perhaps the most confusing, bewildering and upsetting part of our behaviour. People cannot comprehend why they were being feted as the love of our life on Monday and then by Tuesday they are the devil incarnate. It is something which causes (and of course we want this) victims of our nefarious behaviour to cling to us in order to get an answer, to receive an explanation and some kind of reasoning which will allow them to make sense of what has happened. They are unlikely to accept it, the emotional hold of the seduction and the golden period prevents acceptance of this sudden fall from grace for a very long time, but if you are able to understand why it happened, you are able to move yourself forward with greater speed than you would otherwise. Our reasons may appear illogical to you based on your world view but at least you have some reasons and that is more than you would usually ever receive from our kind as we plough on with your devaluation offering no cogent or realistic explanation for this sudden switch. I am not explaining why we devalue you (fuel, control, reinforcement of our need for superiority and self-worth). I am explaining what is it that makes us love you then hate you in the blink of an eye. What causes this sudden change, this 180-degree swing, this volte face, this switch? You will be given no answer or if you are they will not be anything to do with the real reason why we suddenly idealise you then devalue you. This false reasons are wheeled out to make you remain all the more, pursuing an elusive point as we continue to drain you of negative fuel until we decide you are to be discarded. Thus, here are the five reasons that are the triggers for the devaluation.

  1. Stale

The fundamental reason for seducing you is to gather your potent and positive fuel. In the beginning and for some time afterwards we are invigorated by this precious fuel that you supply to us. We are reliant on it, we want and need it and we marvel at the fuel you provide us. This may last months or it may even last years dependent on our demands and your ability to fulfil them. Your complacency however causes the fuel to become stale to us. You may not regard yourself as having done anything wrong. We understand that according to your view of how a healthy and mature relationship should progress that after a dizzying, honeymoon period the relationship moves to a deep-seated position where that initial buzz of excitement has faded to be replaced by something long-lasting, substantial and fulfilling. Should you appreciate your relationship with us with this mind set, it results in us seeing you as complacent. You may regard it as a natural and understandable, indeed potentially necessary progression. We do not. Your failure to admire us in the way you once did (or at least the manifestation of this admiration), your demonstration of love, adoration and such like becomes lessened. You may not think that you love us any less but it is the way that appears to us that matters. This change manifests as complacency to us and it makes your fuel become stale, less potent and this in turn threatens to weaken us. In order to defend ourselves we must immediately switch to the devaluation and extract the negative fuel from you which will power us to the extent we want and demand.

  1. Disobedience

Our sense of entitlement, inability to recognise and respect boundaries and huge need for control means that we have to have you do what we want. This control arises through the application of the incentive, the carrot approach, when we have seduced you and the golden period is in play. Through the application of wonderful and loving behaviour we cause you to do what we want by providing fuel and carrying out our wishes. We have delighted you and you want to please us in return. We provide you with the love you desire and you respond by complying with our requirements. When you stop submitting to this benign control then we will switch and commence the devaluation. You may, when viewed objectively by others, be correct in not doing what we want, taking an alternative course of action and doing something else but to us that is irrelevant. You are challenging our control and this cannot be countenanced. In order to stamp out this uprising before it gains traction and undermines our careful operation that has been constructed to control you and gain fuel from you, we must tighten our control, remove the dissent and increase our grip on you. This is when the devaluation begins. We move from benign dictator to malign tyrant.

  1. See Through

If we apprehend that you are working us out. If we perceive that you have been influenced by another source and you are joining the dots. If we gauge that you are beginning to realise what we are and what we are doing, then we must strike first in order to shock and awe you into submission once more and dispel your fabrications. You may well be right but we are not going to accept you being right. We will switch to the devaluation in order to unleash all those manipulations which will confuse you, drain you and most of all make out that it is all your fault. We have done nothing wrong other than love you with a perfect love and instead you have brought this on yourself through your lies about what we are and your treachery. We cannot allow you to unmask us and therefore we will assault you with a frenzied devaluation which gives you no option other than to try and defend yourself so you lose sight of your goal of seeing through us. We will make you feel guilty, cruel and heartless in the hope of tapping into your empathic traits so you stop what you have been doing and concentrate on putting things right between us, mending the relationship and showing that you care. The commencement of the devaluation when you are uncovering what we are is a massive distraction exercise designed to protect us and harm you.

  1. The Hoover Opportunity

This is not a hoover against you. Instead it is the opportunity which suddenly arises to hoover a predecessor. This person may have been discarded and moved away from our sphere of influence or they have escaped and done likewise, but now something has happened whereby they have come back into our sphere of influence. The promise of that sweet and powerful hoover fuel will outweigh the positive fuel that you are currently providing us with. The prospect of getting this hoover fuel means that we want to focus our attention on the predecessor and hoover them. We will not get shot of you, not yet, because that will leave us in in-between primary sources of fuel. Instead, we commence the hoover to seduce again your predecessor and thus because they have appeared on the horizon they make you look like the less desirable option. This causes us to question why we are with you, to regard you as a mistake and therefore we switch to devaluing you as we begin the seduction of them once again. Should the hoover fail, expect the golden period to be reinstated for you, with another sudden switch. Should it succeed and we begin to tie the predecessor back to us once more with the hoover fuel beginning to flow, you can expect the devaluation to worsen as you hurtle towards being discarded.

A sudden switch to devaluation may indeed herald the fact that a predecessor has appeared on our radar and we are hoovering that person at your expense.

  1. Total Control

You are aware that we want to control you. This is fundamental to the dynamic between us. Yet, as a further example of the double standards that we engage in we want to control you and if you disobey us we will commence your devaluation but furthermore if we believe we have obtained total control over you then we will similarly commence your devaluation because we know that you will do anything that we want and we will just use you to validate ourselves in the event that other, more exciting prospects do not fuel us during the course of the day. You become relegated to the reliable and dependable, because you are actually doing precisely what we want, but through our warped logic, this equates to you no longer being special. Thus we need to make you special to us once again and we do this through devaluation. We will not cast you aside when we have achieved total control, not at all. This state of affairs brings with it considerable benefits but they will now be channelled through the filter of devaluation and not idealisation. It is symptomatic of the bizarre (when judged from your perspective) logic we apply that when you finally do the very thing we want, we turn against you and begin your devaluation.

How do you deal with all of this? The short answer is you cannot. Any of these five reasons may suddenly apply without warning and your devaluation starts. You cannot avoid it and you could not avoid it. You did nothing wrong, but you did everything wrong from our world view. There is nothing you can do to avoid this happening, because once the trigger happens, the devaluation will follow. The thing you can draw the greatest solace from however is that in knowing this is how we are, in knowing that there was nothing you can do or you could have done to have changed the outcome, you at least now have this knowledge and through it you can attain freedom from the doubt, uncertainty and sheer bewilderment of wondering why it happened.

67 thoughts on “The Five Devaluation Triggers

  1. Brenda says:

    Hi HG,

    I believe my ex was a mid ranger (lots of pity parties, a facade of respectful and humble). We had been together for 6 years, and as soon as he bought me an engagement ring, he started to devalue me. I had told him i was ready to marry for a long time before and out of the blue he agreed that it was time to marry. Why was the engagement ring a trigger of devaluation? As soon as that happened he went on a hunt to find my replacement, of course I didn’t know and stuck with him for another year, that was a year of lies, manipulation, and confusion. He replaced me, and got the girl pregnant, married her, all within a year of our break up. I’m still confused.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Brenda and welcome. The engagement ring was not a trigger for devaluation, the fact he had control of you and your fuel had become stale (which coincided with the production of the engagement ring) meant that you were devalued. Some people enter devaluation on the night of their wedding. He produced the engagement ring to gain control of you, once he instinctively felt he had control of you your fuel felt stale, he began devaluing you and sought out a replacement content that you were under his control in the meantime and there producing negative fuel owing to your devaluation. If you need help understanding this, do organise a consultation

      1. Brenda says:

        Wow, I had read about the pinnacle effect in one of your other articles but didn’t realize it applied to my situation too. I know that I’m better off in the long run but still wonder why narcissist choose to marry some IPPSs and not others like in my case. I thought my ex had commitment issues but I was wrong.
        Thank you for bringing some clarity to my situation. I had started reading several of your articles and what you say is right on point with his behaviors. Sometimes I’m tempted to trigger a follow up hoover now that I know who he really is, since the last time I saw him he was so horrible to me, and had me thinking our break up was all my fault. I believed it because he had also charmed my family and our close friends who sort of sided with him at first. I’m tempted to trigger a FUH to wound him and get my dignity back, and end things that way. I have a feeling that you’ll tell me this is a bad idea… I have already dodged a lieutenant- hoover, but know that I can trigger another hoover through that channel. It might be worth it to provide negative fuel this time, since doing so I feel would give me peace somehow and help me achieve indifference some day.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello Brenda, yes it is a bad idea. The fact that you see this is likely to be regarded as a bad idea shows you are in the window of evasion before ET subsumes your logic. Do not focus on what you can do to him, it will not work as you want it to owing to
          1. He is a narcissist , and
          2. Your level of ET.

          Instead focus on you. Organise a Narc Detector Consultation so you know exactly what you are dealing with and you have absolute confirmation and then use that to mould your no contact regime. Make it about you, not about him.

  2. DebbieWolf says:

    Just always an excellent and timely reminder when needed. This article bolsters and enforces determination to stay away from harm. It is also validating and a comfort to be absolved from any doubting that we could have done anything at all to prevent the downward spiral.
    It really is great to be reminded.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      YOu are welcome.

  3. June says:

    Thank you HG Tudor, your posts helped me to be aware and see the set up of this sorrowful play. However I do feel attracted to the narcissists and most of my relationships were with narcissists (including my father) . I almost feel like it is better to stick to the one I know because the next will have only a different name and face but it will be the same devil. A Fatal attraction.
    The last guy that I had involvement with , a narcissists without a doubt, charmed and seduced me but I was armed in your knowledge already and I decided to push him away. I saw what is coming . So I was very contradictory to everything he said, rebellious, disapproving, critical , I told him that he is a narcissists and he didn’t deny. He discarded me of course, now he claims to be happy with someone else but he wants to see me. Why?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Because he views you as belonging to him and he perceives he will gain fuel from you.

  4. Cindy says:

    I’m trying to understand whether my on-and-off best friend of a decade is a Narcissist, and what I should do. I’d really love to hear anyone’s comment.

    First of all, I come from an abusive family full of addicts and alcoholics, and my mother is an extremely difficult person, and I’ve begun to be concerned that I might be unconsciously reliving my relationship with her through my friendship. My mother has a lot of the characteristics of a narcissist (lack of empathy, inability to admit her mistakes no matter how big, selfishness, a complete and lifelong lack of healthy long term relationships).

    My friend is someone who I admire in a lot of ways, and I don’t think she’s evil. I do think she has empathy…but I’m not sure her empathy has the capability to extend to people who are saying that SHE is the one causing pain. And yes, she does do this a lot to people in her life.

    People walk on eggshells around her a lot, she’ll ruin your evening if she’s in a bad mood and then blame you for it later. She falls out with people or ghosts them over and over again.

    We’re in a fight at the moment (not the first, not the worst), and it’s so illogical that I don’t know what to do. She keeps accusing me of insulting her, but she can’t tell me what I’m supposed to have said. I apologize, but that doesn’t matter to her. Again, I can’t be specific in any apology because she says she can’t tell me what I’m supposed to have said. She just says I “throw around comments” that make her feel bad, then gives me the silent treatment.

    In contrast, my view of the situation, which I’ve realized recently, is that I compliment her to a pathetic level- like I feel like I HAVE to for her to like me. So truly, I don’t know what she’s talking about.

    When I pushed the issue, she said “I don’t have time for this, I need space, I need to back away from this friendship.”

    I said OK.

    She then started in again on how I hurt her feelings.

    I started complimenting her, saying how great she is, etc.

    Now she’s “open” to talking again.

    This is just a variation on an old theme with her, and I feel like I’m trapped in a cycle. I have been a loyal friend for years, I’ve tried so hard. But nothing I do is good enough in the long term, and I don’t know why I feel the need to repair something when the bad time outnumber the good. I don’t like who I become around this person- although, yes, once- a long time ago- I did. Now I feel like a push over and a constant failure.

    But somehow, I can’t truly believe my feelings are right and hers are wrong. I struggle to trust my own eyes and ears. I feel like if I’m a good enough, perfect enough friend, it will work out.

    I just want to know if this the kind of thing you guys went through with your Narcissistic relationships, or if this sounds like something else.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      More information is required to provide an accurate assessment and this should be done through a consultation.

    2. K says:

      I think your friend is a narcissist (and mom). Pity plays, empathy for herself but NOT others (woe is I, it is all about me, me, me) walking around on eggshells, silent treatments, projection, blame-shifting, ghosting, toxic logic, push/pull, and excessive compliments are classic signs of NPD. You tried hard and have been a loyal friend for years (tenacity) and feel the need to fix/heal the relationship (empath traits).

      You are stuck in a cycle of abuse and your self-worth and critical thinking has been eroded. It will not work out, stop apologizing (you did nothing wrong) focus on yourself, and it is time to get out, stay out and go no contact. (GOSO & NC)
      Read: 9 I can’t deal with this right now, on the link below.

      (When I pushed the issue, she said “I don’t have time for this, I need space, I need to back away from this friendship.”)

      P.S. HG, I hope you don’t mind. It was a veritable buffet of NPD abuse.

      1. Cindy says:

        Thank you K, I really appreciate your response. Some more stuff went down, I read more about Narcissism, I reflected a lot on things that have happened in the past- and I’m completely sure now that she truly does have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It’s really hard- I’m like completely heartbroken and shell-shocked. But I deleted her from my phone so that I can’t weaken in my no contact resolve. Unfortunately that means I can’t block her, so she could still contact me- which is giving me constant stress. I’m sure I’ll get through it ok, it’s just really awful right now. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my question.

        1. K says:

          You are very welcome, Cindy

          Keep reading and don’t stop. When you have a chance read:

          It is heartbreaking and shocking, to say the least, when dealing with these types of personalities, especially in the beginning but, once you understand, you will start to feel much better and in control of your emotions. Focus on yourself and establishing healthy boundaries. Your comment had so many elements of the dynamic that I felt compelled to respond. It was like a giant red flag waving at me. You are on the road to recovery, now, and I wish you luck!

      2. Insatiable Learner says:

        This is a great response, K. Cindy, for what it is worth, I completely agree with K. This is clearly a narcissistic dynamic. It will never get back. Please find the strength to get out and no longer engage. It will be tough but you can heal. Sending support and encouragement your way.

        1. K says:

          Thank you, Insatiable Learner! Cindy’s comment was a plethora of narcissistic abuse and I couldn’t help but respond. I felt so bad because she has been through the wringer and she needed help, stat!

    3. Cindy says:

      Thank you guys so much for the supportive words. I’m doing one more thing- and I hope it’s on the right side of no contact. I realized that I have some of her stuff- some expensive weights. She left them at my house like 4 years ago and she’s said a million times she wants them back, although she never takes them when she’s here. I know her well enough to know that if I don’t give them back to her, she’ll crop up in like a year and demand them back- likely she will send someone I don’t know to my house to rescue them. She’s done stuff like that before. So I got back in touch to get her address because she just moved and I haven’t been there before. She totally lashed out and said how I was “confirming things” she thinks about me, and that while she wasn’t “breaking up” with me, she needed to “not see me for a while.” Which is bizarre because I haven’t even seen her since the end of February (I invited her to my boyfriend’s birthday party and she showed up hungover, sulked in the corner the whole time, was rude to his colleagues and my other friends, and then left early after getting me -I don’t know what’s wrong with me- to buy her a few drinks in an attempt to get her to stay). Anyway, I’m just going to leave the stuff on her porch and then block her from my phone and my email. I’m having a hard time, because I feel like this is the correct thing to do in terms of a clean no-contact break, but I don’t feel like my instincts are very clear with this person. Any advice?

      1. Insatiable Learner says:

        Hi Cindy, it is entirely possible that she wanted to leave the weights at your place to create the ever-presence HG writes about and also as an excuse for hoovering you later. You are doing right by returning the weights to her. Perhaps, you can arrange the delivery without the need for any further contact with her. You can do this. Stay strong!

      2. K says:

        Read this:

        And read all the other no contact mistakes there are 5 in total.
        You entered her sphere of influence and then she maligned hoovered you- She totally lashed out.

        Read the Incredible Sulk and she those drinks were residual benefits.

      3. NarcAngel says:


        Fuck her. Shes using them to keep you in contact. If she hasnt used them in 4 yrs she obviously doesnt need/use them. Gaslight her. Get rid of the weights (landfill, donation, etc) and the next time she brings them up, reply: you came and got them. Dont you remember?
        When she protests stay calm and just plod on with: i remember distinctly-it was a Tuesday and you were wearing (enter familiar clothing here), and I was so happy to be rid of them and to see that you were finally going to use them to get back into shape (wounding). I was concerned about the weight in your trunk, well not YOUR trunk, but you know what I mean…In any case – theyre no longer here because you have them and… do you like cake? I like cake. You’re welcome for the advice, thank you (word salad).

        (Probably best by text if you cant pull off a straight face like I can while howling inside)

        Or do whatever HG says. Thats probably best, but my way is more fun.


        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha… Gas lighting her would be way more fun! I have been thinking about gas lighting my narcs and how much fun it would be to fuck with them. Thanks for the laugh! There is never a dull moment with you here.

      4. K says:

        Try to read everything before you do the return and Insatiable Learner has the right idea, have someone else return the property. And here is one more article, this will explain exactly what motivates the narcissist.

        Good luck!

      5. K says:

        The best way to deal with your friend is to get your emotional thinking (ET) under control. What are your instincts telling you? It sounds like you have been unhappy with this friendship for a while. The birthday sulk was a classic pity play for attention (fuel). Her behavior was childish and selfish and you and your boyfriend deserve better than that. Your ambivalence is normal and your ET will improve as you start to replace it with logical thinking (LT) and the best way to achieve this is by sticking with no contact (NC) and reading as much as you can.

    4. Cindy says:

      Hi guys,
      Thank you, it’s good to hear you think my instincts are correct. She made me tell her what time I’d drop them off- I’m just going to make sure I’m like 1/2 hour earlier than I said I’d be there and just run up really quick, so that if she has an ambush set up I’ll thwart her plans somewhat. Although, most likely, knowing her, she won’t be there, or she’ll be hiding in the house. She might sick someone else on me, like one of her roommates or my replacement (who is super mean and I’m kind of scared of). My plan is to just be polite and brief and then get the hell out of there as quickly as possible. My boyfriend will be with me, so it shouldn’t get out of hand.
      Again, thank you so much for your support. This blog and your responses have really been helping. I don’t think most people really understand the emotional pull this person has over me. It’s hard for most types of people to understand how cemented and obligated you can feel when you’re in a friendship with someone who can manipulate your emotions with such skill, so you never even realize it’s happening, and you always end up seeing things from their side no matter how many times they let you down. I always blame myself for not being a good enough person to heal this selfish, entitled, ungrateful woman, because it’s so hard to stop forgiving her because the fact is that her terrible behavior is the result of a terrible childhood.
      In the end you can’t save someone who doesn’t want to be saved, and that’s a lesson I learned a long time ago from my parents. But it’s just still really hard for me to actually see that characteristic in people.
      Thank you so much for giving me a place where I can vent these thoughts 🙂

      1. K says:

        You are welcome, Cindy
        I strongly recommend that you send your boyfriend alone with the property. One of the best things about this blog is that everyone here understands the dynamic really well, so you are not alone. The narcissist salami slices his/her way into your life and uses guilt to control you. It is time to stop seeing her side of things, irrespective of her terrible childhood (another pity play she uses for fuel and control).

        You are not to blame and it is not your job to heal or fix anyone, except yourself. Do not accept abuse. Put up boundaries and put yourself first for a change. She can’t be fixed; walk away and do NOT feel guilty. Recognize there is nothing you can do and move on.

        Come back and vent as much as you need to; it worked for me.

  5. Reckoning says:

    Disobedient and See Through.
    I figured him out months before he began devaluation and started planning how to get out. I also straight-up told him ‘No’ when he told me to go get a job at a local coffee shop or similar establishment. I told him I was getting a high paying job in my field of study and that nothing would stop me.

    After I figured him out, I started pushing back. Allergic to cats? Hugged one on the way over. Forcing me to help set up for another one of his art shows? I’ll hang the art juuust enough so that it falls off the wall later.
    Food? Subpar. Laundry? I shrank both pairs of your favorite pants. So sorry.

    Landed the job I wanted. Took the offer without consulting him. Uninvited him to my College graduation.
    I ended the relationship out of left field. He was expecting an apology. Only cost me a couple slashed tires. Best decision I ever made.

  6. Dianah says:

    Very Twisted thinking indeed!! Despite ALL the noted reason’s (His behavior throughout the years) I figured out he Loved To Hate Me…Didn’t matter..I always knew my worth and lived a life of Integrity. He is now a “collapsed narcacisst”…Karma. Has come to roost. He spends his days “trying to be a good person”….much much too late

  7. Sadgirl says:

    During the devaluation my narc liked to tell me something like this:
    – I have some dreams about the escape. I have a flight but I forget the ticket and cant go anywhere.
    – What are you escaping from?
    – From everything. I’m not happy.
    – Is it because of me? Can I help you? Should I change something?
    – I just dont feel loved.
    – So tell me what to do.
    – Not today, it is not a good time.
    – But tell me, am I doing something wrong?
    – I told you many times. I want you to be closer. I dont feel loved because you live in different city.
    – Be patient, I’ moving in next month.
    – Oh so it is my fault because I’m not patient enough? I knew you won’t take any blame. You are always so content.
    – What blame? Im happy Im with you and that we will be together soon. And I dont know why you are tring to destroy it.
    – Oh I see. I have to be silent. But it is your fault that we arent together right now. And you should tell me you love me and that you want to be with me. But you only want me to beg you for your love and to pretend to be happy all the time. But Im not happy anymore. You are so selfish.

    I wonder is this typical for lesser, mid ranger or the greater?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Mid Range.

      1. Tiddlywink says:

        Hi HG.. i wrote this question (below) to u last year and I know and appreciate that you are busy, but could u please let me know the reason why my ex midrange narcissist would be so derogatory during the “golden period”..?
        “Thank you HG.. So poignant..I do have a question for you though. When I first connected to my narc.. within about 2 weeks he would ask me, “How’s it going player?” or “how are you cunt?” .. i found these offensive and asked him not to call me those things because they were derogatory. Why would he call me these awful names? He continued though, calling me those things and worse, throughout the next few months. Would you consider the reasons why he would say these things to me was because he was devaluing me and trying to get negative fuel from me? He had, or should I say still has, 2 concurrent long term girlfriends.. which at the time i didnt know about because I was right in the “golden period”. Btw he is a player, not me…” ..
        Thank you…

        1. HG Tudor says:

          What was your position in his fuel matrix at that time?

      2. Tiddlywink says:

        Hello HG.. at the time I thought I was his ‘one and only’ because it was right at the start of the golden period, however in retrospect I was probably either his DLS or one of his IPSS.. (although more likely a DLS even though at that stage I had never met him in real life.. only had spoken by phone or online)…

      3. Lori says:

        he was calling you cunt within the first 2 weeks? Holy crap! That is unbelieveable!. I’m curious HG based on the information provided would that make her dirty little secret? Seems like there is something significant in that behavior. Narc has never called me something like that nor would he. He’s been disrespectful yes but call me a cunt? No. HG what would that be indicative of especially in the first 2 weeks?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Most likely and it was either being used

          1. Clumsily in a sexual sense as part of the seduction; or
          2. There was an ignition of fury and this was the response – therefore the narcissist was most likely a Lesser.

          1. Twilight says:

            It is with the DLS those names are used?

  8. Hope says:

    You people are evil. You know what you’re doing and you do it to avoid looking at your completely empty selves. You have no core, you have no empathy and without us you would be nothing. Just wait until you are old and you have no one to care for you because everyone has learned your game. Good luck with that.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ah the valedictory “you will be old and have nobody to care for you” – might be a concern for lower echelon narcissists, but not for me.

      1. Hope says:

        You’ll see. Mark my words. You will end up completely alone and disliked. Ever seen an old narc? I have many times. You will be pitied if people think of you at all. You will be stuck with your own evil self. I’ve seen it. And your reply of “not me” just reveals your grandiose fantasy which reveals who you really are: an empty human who will face death with terror.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I have faced death several times and have not experienced terror.
          I have seen aged narcissists, they are in my family and beyond and thus I know what awaits SOME of our kind in terms of what you describe. I have also seen aged narcissists who continue to operate successfully.
          I am empty – indeed, I do not deny it but nor does it concern me.
          I am evil – indeed, I do not dent it but nor does it concern me.
          I have no interest in pity.
          If I am disliked, so be it, it is still fuel. I do know however that it will not be a matter of only being disliked, but admired, loved, liked alongside hated and despised.

          Feel free to continue and I shall readily correct your inaccuracies as this place is all about providing people with accurate information.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Well…… thats Hope for ya.

          2. Hope says:

            Vade retro Satana! Numquam suade mihi vana! Sunt mala quae linas. Ipse venenum bibas!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Ah yes, I know this one, it means “If it moves, fuck it” yes?!

        2. Twilight says:


          Anger is understandable, a close mind isn’t. Just because you have not seen it doesn’t make it so, all it is is your opinion not factual.

          So unless you have some information on HG all the others here do not have, how can you state that he will die alone and it be a fact?

      2. Hope says:

        You’re funny

        1. K says:

          HG is really funny and, if you hang around for a while, you can learn a lot. It is the only place where I have found support and accurate information about NPD abuse.

      3. Persephone In Sunlight says:

        Well bless my stars!! An online exorcism?
        Have you ever been the object of an exorcism before, HG?

        1. HG Tudor says:


      4. Persephone In Sunlight says:

        Sorry, that should have been subject, i think.
        Still, it’s funny.

    2. WiserNow says:


      I can understand your anger and your pain. It certainly does feel like evil. It leaves a lot of terrible effects on people’s lives and it is a very difficult situation to be involved with. It feels like you are drowning and that goodness is nowhere to be found.

      Hatred and anger is not the answer though. These things will not help you solve your problems or make your life better. Hatred and anger are hurting you more than they are hurting the people who you are blaming.

      Please try to understand that it is not satan or evil from above. It is the way a person’s mind works.

      If your mind works in a different way and if you have compassion for others and believe in doing the right thing, then think about how you can protect your mind from not being hurt by the actions of people who think in a different way.

      HG is trying to help you see this. If you read and try to understand, it will help you.

      Best wishes to you.

  9. Level says:

    Why would this ever be accepted behavior?

  10. Blue1 says:

    Hi HG, Which of your books should I read on the topic of Disengagement?

    I hope your treatment with the doctors is going well? I know you went through a lot as a child. I truly hope you experience healing, peace and love.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Blue1. Black Hole and No Contact.

  11. Charlie says:

    This is so unbelievably real to my experience with my ex. So powerful.

  12. Diva says:

    “There’s just a flicker of humanity (yes sober, but somehow almost kind) infused in the horrific and very necessary lesson that you convey to us. It is a strange dynamic, this.”

    Strange dynamic indeed…..yes, you will note a similar demeanour in a few other articles too…….sometimes it’s easy to forget that he is actually a narc…….I have to remind myself of that fact every time I log in!!!!!!…….Diva

  13. Jenna says:

    I was disobedient in his eyes. At first, i used to remain silent to the future faking. Several months later, i started asking abt it; he used to deflect. A few months after that, i informed him that it hurts me. That’s when it stopped. But he viewed me as disobedient for asking in the first place.

  14. Tiddlywink says:

    Thank you HG.. So poignant..I do have a question for you though. When I first connected to my narc.. within about 2 weeks he would ask me, “How’s it going player?” or “how are you cunt?” .. i found these offensive and asked him not to call me those things because they were derogatory. Why would he call me these awful names? He continued though, calling me those things and worse, throughout the next few months. Would you consider the reasons why he would say these things to me was because he was devaluing me and trying to get negative fuel from me? He had, or should I say still has, 2 concurrent long term girlfriends.. which at the time i didnt know about because I was right in the “golden period”. Btw he is a player, not me…

  15. Merripen says:

    I read this three times. The first two, because following the intricacies of the narcissist’s complex world view, is like following the plot line to Orphan Black. (But, I really love Orphan Black.) The third time was just because I’m crushing on your writing style HG. There’s just a flicker of humanity (yes sober, but somehow almost kind) infused in the horrific and very necessary lesson that you convey to us. It is a strange dynamic, this.

  16. angela says:

    im agree with you

  17. MyTrueSelf says:

    This information is so helpful,HG!
    It helps me to understand the very confusing behaviour surrounding my discards. I had been wondering what the heck I had done to provoke him.
    Thank you so much.

  18. K says:

    Jeeze, I was stale, disobedient and he would try to control my opinions on many topics (total control). He even tried to control how I used the word “patina”. No wonder he devalued me. Mostly, I fought back and gave him copious amounts of negative fuel, which is exactly what he wanted. Winner, winner chicken dinner. He won; not I.

    I got a Parental Hoover today. My mother and aunt (both narcs) pulled into my driveway and beeped the horn for me to come out to them. Turns out my cousins have bed bugs. There is never a dull moment when you are related to narcissists!

    1. Merripen says:

      K, you made me smile with “Winner winner chicken dinner”! The house always wins.

      (Carhop Parental Hoover, with bedbugs on the side. Hugs and giggles to you, poor dear!)

      1. K says:

        The house always wins and, as much as it kills me to admit, I have to concede. Nothing like a side of bed bugs, with a drive by hoover to make your day.

  19. Anne says:

    Great article. Being able to at least grip a unemotional explanation. I wouldn’t MIND, so i was told. And after horrible treatment, abuse, devaluation, I’m finally getting over it. I see him starting the same cycle with a new blushing unaware person, sorry, plural, lol. But, him being a lesser, the first time his , I’m the boss, gets challenged, she’s in for a shock! Rage, and cold, and night’s of crying, until it’s their turn, or they figure it out. He’s not very cleaver, almost stupid, and defiantly not aware of how close his own destruction is!

  20. Sandra says:

    I was IPSS so theoretically I didn’t have the same demands placed on me as his IPPS. I’m confused that I did experience subtle devaluations over the course of a 5 year daily engagement. Staleness and total control then?

    I’m finding out that other attempts have been made to contact me. All passively blocked. Self imposed isolation will continue until I attain Zero Impact or he stops actively looking for a hoover opportunity. Again…why? I’m IPSS.

    I can’t chalk it up to being “special supply” or excuse him as a lower spectrum narcissist…both would be emotional bias.

  21. Twilight says:

    I have a headache now

    I do understand Hoover trigger now thou….anything can cause it. Yet I find it is no different then when I came across a picture of him I took long ago. For a moment I wanted to speak to him….I wrote a letter instead. A Hoover is nothing more then a desire to “connect” . Difference is they are willing to give up what they have to seduce that what was.
    With me once I close that door, I lock, nail, use industrial glue, bolt and cement it close. To much effort to remove all of that to go back, just to “see” if things work out. Nope take the lessons, forgive and move on.
    Now to finish putting these shelves together HG you have distracted me in many ways today….blog binging, book reading…..
    Hope your evening runs effectively!!!

  22. Insatiable Learner says:

    Dear HG, I trust you are well. Thank you for continuing to be there for us! Quick question if I may. If a narc demoted an intimate partner secondary source to non-intimate, would he ever consider promoting her back to intimate and if so, what can she do to make this more likely even though, obviously, it is always down to the narc to make that decision? Thank you!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Be compliant and outrank competitors.
      Correct, it is always down to the narcissist and also you do not know what is going on in the wider fuel matrix, so you NEVER have a guarantee of success, so don’t bother.

      1. Yolo says:

        Don’t bother…

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