Mother Knows Best
“I love you.”
“I have heard this is a good one for getting a reaction from you because this is what you always want to hear.”
“You won’t ever amount to anything.”
“Not while I am interfering in every facet of your life, controlling you and making your childhood and your adult life one long battle.”
“I just thought I would call you and see how you are.”
“You do not give me enough fuel. You are an ungrateful son/daughter and I regret the day I gave birth to you.”
“It is my birthday next week and I just wondered if you had anything planned.”
“I expect something lavish and spectacular so I can be centre stage. If you haven’t planned such an event you are cruel and uncaring, just as I always thought.”
“I am proud of you.”
“For once you have done something I approve of and now I can take all the credit for it.”
“You were quite a challenge when you were younger.”
“I thought you might resist my cold-hearted manipulation of you, but I broke you in the end.”
“I suppose you have heard the sad news about your Uncle Paul dying?”
“A death! A funeral! Such a wonderful stage for me to dominate and all those relatives to suck fuel from.”
“I am trying to help you,you know?”
“I am trying to control you, stop resisting me.”
“I have done so much for you. All I want is some thanks.”
“I think I have done so much for you. I need some fuel.”
“It was a joke. You take yourself so seriously.”
“It was not a joke. Damn you for seeing through it. I need to back track quickly so I am not accountable.”
“You were an accident.”
“Go on cry and make me feel powerful.”
“Your father and I have discussed this as we think…”
“I have decided….”
“Your father agrees with me so there is no point running to him.”
“Your father knows better than to contradict me.”
“I had such high hopes for you.”
“You aren’t doing what I want.”
“That never happened.”
“It did but you are not allowed to hold that against me.”
“We never thought you would leave home.”
“You were not meant to move out of my control.”
“We hardly ever see you these days.”
“You should be providing me with fuel more often.”
“You weren’t like this when you were little.”
“You were so much easier to control back then.”
“I don’t love you.”
“I don’t love you. I never have.”
68 thoughts on “Mother Knows Best”
This is my mother. I wish she was dead
Uh oh…What in the wide wide world of sports happened, causing you to write this hideous post? I simply don’t understand how a mother can enjoy being this cruel to her own children. God, what were her parents like?? I shudder to think about it.
As a young girl, I remember my paternal great grandmother — old grandma we called her– the feelings of hatred that oozed out of her crooked body slumped in her wheel chair made me loath her. Her voice fairly cackled very time she squacked in her foreign tongue, yet my dear grandma cared for the wretch. Later, my dad told us some stories that confirmed my feelings about the evil prune. I guess I gained a lot of empathy for my dad after that, and it helped explained things about him.
Sorry H.G.; not all mothers know and do evil best.
When I was a child my Mother told me that she hated me as I was just like my Father. I found this confusing and distressing. My Father was emotionally unavailable, and largely absent in the home. Only as an adult have I learned that he was a narcissist, most likely a Lesser, violent and abusive. She blamed me for feeling trapped in the relationship. I grew up to be an Empath, and became easy grazing for a Narcissist last year.
This post is about mothers who would be cluster B personality disorder, not a healthy mother.
You assume she was healthy, perhaps you have a crystal ball? Either way, I take the hint, I’m out.
And, when I was not even a teenager yet, my mom was talking to my older sister (who was a teenager), and said to her, “Well, with “Rhyming Fun” (not my real name, of course), she is going to be well-developed, so men will use her, but never really love her”. I was right there in plain site hearing everything Mom was saying about a man not ever loving me. I was not even a teenager, yet.
And, Mom would talk to my older sister, who had just turned into a teenager, and tell her (right in front of me), how to give a man a blow-job. At that age, I didn’t know about blow-jobs, so it shocked me.
When I was only about 5-6 years of age, Mom, my older sister, and I were walking to the store. My mom was walking right next to my sister, and I was walking in front of them. My mother had given me a small, flowery, short-skirt romper to wear because it was summertime. I was so young, so I did not realize that the romper was too small on me, and riding up my rear-end, even though I kept trying to pull it back out as I was walking, because it was uncomfortable. Then, my mom started telling my sister that I was dressed like that “because I wanted a “dirty old man” to rape me, because I was a little whore”. And, she and my sister laughed at me, as my mom continued saying sexual things about me. I just remember trying to run ahead of both of them, as I cried because they were laughing at me, and trying to hide behind things, and feeling so terrible. It’s amazing what I can remember at such a young age.
When I was 3-4 years old, and would misbehave, my mom used to scold me by making me take off my panties, and shutting me inside a bedroom where her boyfriend was in there alone watching TV. I screamed and cried, frantically, at the door for my mom to open it up and give me back my panties. I screamed in such panic. I didn’t like how it felt to be inside that room alone with that man who was watching TV, and have my little shirt still on, but nothing else.
I don’t know why she did these types of things to me, or what it was all about.
That’s horrible. It must have been pure hell to go through as a child. My mother never made those kind of direct and hurtful sexual comments or acts, but she treated me like an extension of herself. Told me things about herself that I was way to young to know, wanted to educate me about sex, asked me private things all the time, spied on me, read my diaries and made fun of me being a confused teenager. She forced me to sit for hours at a table wanting to know if I had had my period yet, if I was interested in boys and so on. I clammed up completely. Started hiding my life from her, connected sex to shame. I still refuse to speak of anything private to her. Even though that leaves me feeling guilty.
I feel for you. Lots of hugs!
Omg 😮 you poor girl, I can’t believe this, what a horrible mother. Nasty women. I hope you have no contact with her, she definitely sounds like a narc. May be you can sue your mum for that abuse.
Or, when I was a young teenager, she said, “You just love shaking your a** for all the men to see, don’t you?” (I did not ‘purposely’ shake my a**).
boy this brought back memories my mother is bat shit crazy and I don’t say it to be salty. She literally spent three and a half years locked in a state mental asylum before getting married and having two kids I don’t know if she’s a narc but if she is its secondary to her mentall illness which I think is schizoaffective disorder. As a child she would walk past me to kiss my sister goodnight we shared a room. She told me don’t look in the mirror of I get up during the night to use the bathroom cuz id see the devils face in the mirror. She told me to get the fuck out of the living room cuz she couldn’t stand the sight of me. Gave me a black eye on mY thirteenth birthday. At the same time she was praising my sister constantly day and night. Ironically I was the straight a student who was quite as a mouse and never gave her any problems my sister was a straight f student always in trouble but in my mothers eyes could do no wrong. My own friends asked me why my mother hated me my boyfriend at 17 told me at nineteen he couldn’t marry me after all cuz he couldn’t bear the thought of her being grandmothers to his kids. I believe my sister to be a narc but in her case not do to abuse but due to constant never ending praise. I got neverending criticism she once told a boyfriend of mine why do u want to date my daughter can’t u see how fat she is I was 114 pounds at the time and five eight. No wonder im a narc magnet . good lord I had forgotten about most of this
I don’t know if you are aware there is a new treatment coming soon called cold therapy and it also helps cure post dramatic stress disorder, helps you heal from past traumas.
This is definitely a snapshot of my mother. I’ve never said any of these things to my grown daughter but it scares me to read these. While I think I’m doing everything differently than my mother, what if I’m not? I’ve always been told in therapy that you cannot give what you do not have. I’ve asked every therapist I’ve ever had how I can possibly be an adequate mother if I didn’t have one.
I’ve worked my ass off to be self aware and learn when I’m operating out of my ego or manipulating. I’ve spent years learning about my own character defects and noticing when I am using them. But we can’t know every single time we do those things.
Thankfully, I have a daughter who calls me on all of that. She does it in a loving way, not a mean way and she gives me the opportunity to see what I’m doing and apologize to her. She’s never used it as a manipulation herself.
All the same, there is a voice in my head that says, what if you are a monster, too?
I think the determining factor is do you really love your daughter? If you know that you really do love her, then no you will not be a monster. All parents make mistakes. We all screw up. But if you truly love her, she will know and you will both work thru your problems.
The greatest gift I’ve ever been given in the world was to be picked to be her mom. It’s a privilege ❤️
you are no monster. Even if you manipulate, answer to your daughter too emotionally or too cold , you listen to her and appreciate her feelings. She gets a honest apology, if you failed. You show responsibility. That is what children need. All parents do mistakes. Parents are only humans too.
If you appreciate her feelings and arguments, she will see the real love behind it and your struggle to do it right. Stay honest with her and yourself and you will succeed.
you should try cold therapy, it helps rewire the neurons in your brain. Heals victims as well as narcissists. Not a available yet, but will be in the future as it a nee treatment mordality.
It will not heal narcissists because the narcissist will never submit to the therapy in the first place or for long enough. The narcissism is an all-encompassing defence mechanism and therefore will not allow any breach of that defence mechanism to begin with. There are also several questionable issues with regard to this therapy in addition but it is too detailed to write about in a response here.
HG, it has been done though.
I met Sam Vaknin the self proclaimed narcissist, he has used it on people and they have been cured. He is working on a family of 3 at the moment.
Right infornt of my very eyes a young beautiful wealthy jewish women dressed in all black, long coat and a hat (indoors), trying to hide her face, went up to Sam and quietly asked about cold therapy and admitted to him she was a malignant narcissist and that she was a dangerous person. She asked him about cold therapy and they exchanged details so he can treat her. I still remember her face. She meant to be discreet but it was a bit difficult but at the same time she was desperate to speak to Sam so she said what she had to as quiet as possible.
my close friend also met a greater narc a few years ago who had hit rock bottom after him and his wife separated and he attended therapy (not cold therapy) however the standard therapy doesn’t work, and he told my friend everything, he even said he lacked empathy and it happened after his brother died as he was a child himself, his parents over loved him. At this time my friend didn’t know what narcississm was, but later when we talked about it i explained to her and then it all made sense to her. So this man Abdul was his name he attended but it didn’t work for him so he did try whilst at rock bottom.
The treatment can be 10 days long hours, and it not like the typical warm friendly therapy. It is cold and harsh. No fuel given to the narcissists whilst in therapy.
1. How do you know they have been cured? You do not. The fundamental problem is that the self-defence mechanism will not allow an ‘in’ because to do so would breach the self-defence mechanism that is narcissism and it will at all costs defend itself. Further, it relies on replicating the conditions of the original trauma, but that cannot be done.
2. I find your second paragraph somewhat difficult to believe for a variety of reasons.
3. Your third paragraph doesn’t add anything.
I appreciate you sharing your views, which you are perfectly entitled to do so, but it is important to point out that there is no cure because this will provide dangerous and false hope to individuals. Accuracy is important.
I’ve wondered why SV hasn’t applied his principles of cold therapy somehow to himself? I realize he is engineering this application and basing it on not treating malignant narcissism as a personality disorder, but rather as applying principles of child psychology for experiencing trauma and PTSD. He creates this, yet he never changes or can be cured?
I do consider though that a different method of trying to treat narcissism can have a positive affect and possible buffer or soften the abusive behaviors. I know you say the narcissism is inherently ingrained as a defence mechanism. Can you consider that cold therapy can alter the condition somewhat to not be so destructive, to the narcissist and the people around him/her, rather than cure it?
I do not see that it is designed to ameliorate but rather to cure and in that regard it is flawed.
True. It’s a work in process for sure right now.
Yes cold therapy treats the narcissist as a child, and does not call it a personally disorder but complex post dramatic stress disorder. Because in reality that is what it really is. The claim is that most patients can only really be treated when the narcissistic defence mechanism is broken down, i.e. hit rock bottom or the narcissist himself if willing to be treated otherwise it isn’t possible at all. Then they become amenable to therapy. SV said that the real reason he had researched for this cure was so that he can cure himself, and he hopes for the therapy to be used on himself.
I agree with HG Tudor, SV talking about his past was not playing victim but just talking about his past.
I would also love to see a debate between Sam Vaknin and HG Tudor, and hear the arguments from both sides. I wonder if this is possible HG?
Clarece approves 😉
HG, I would enjoy a constructive debate between you and SV. Is it possible that he is the only Greater Victim/Cerebral in existence? I know you deem Greater and Victim as mutually exclusive. He does play the victim card rather often. (And well deserved from what he says about his past and upbringing.) I’m not judging, it’s only an observation.
He is Greater Cerebral, all narcissists play the victim to some extent, however one must distinguish between playing the victim card and merely explaining what has occurred in the past – those are two different things.
He mentions his impotence with women repeatedly. Women aren’t attracted to him. He doesn’t know what to do with women. Etc. Maybe the comments are some type of pity play. I counted five comments in one interview. I do feel sad for him, so I guess it worked. He’s just a brain in a carbon based jar is what he said.
I suspect he is just being factual about it. Anyway, enough about him, let’s talk about me!
HG, you are of course my favorite subject. When can I get a new YT recording? I miss your voice.
Probably later in the week.
I’m looking forward to it. My headphones are all charged up and ready to go. Will you read one of the new Narc Tales?
No Narc Tales?!? You’ve bursted my bubble HG. But, as you know, I’m thrilled to hear anything you record and will be watching for it all the same!
They’re there for the reading, there will be an audio book in the future, but the new material will not be on YouTube.
I’ll just have to pay you to read to me then, Sir. Easiest. Consult. Ever.
And read them I have 🙂
As I read more posts, I am realizing so many more little situations that show me more of her narcissistic traits and situations. I now realize her serious lack of empathy in one incident when I was 5 yrs old. I had a tumor removed from my ear (born with at birth) that has left me without hearing in that ear. I remember being home recuperating with massive headaches, lots of dressing around my head and much pain and getting no sympathy from her and all the while watching her playfully play with our dog, laughing and petting him and throwing the ball. I remember making a comment of her loving the dog more than me and although I don’t remember her comment in return I do remember her snideness or sarcasm back to me… and then later using that incident to make fun of me years later.
It’s quite a revelation to me reading all comments here and realising that so many of us grew up with a narcissistic parent. I’ve never put it into words before except for discussing it with my sister, and even though I’ve seen the connection between how I grew up and the kind of abusive relationship I ended up in, I can really see the pattern now. That’s healing in a true sense.
My mother used love as her weapon. Everything she did to me was in the name of love, and I learned that love is always conditioned and taken from me as a punishment. Still today when she texts me the five last sentences of any given message are always what really amounts to ridiculous declarations of a love that make me cringe. The demand of course being that I respond in the same manner or else.. And these messages keep coming, at least four or five of them a day, every day. I hate it.
HG, has your mother ever told you she loves you or she does not love you?
Does she even use the word, love in any context that is not superficial?
Never used it. Never heard it.
Awww….I just want to hug you, H.G., right now!
Unless you would take that as criticism…If it’s fuel, that’s cool.
Narc parents can be the worst.
I’m really grateful you are taking the time to write about narcissistic families, thank you!
Please feel free to ignore this question if it makes you uncomfortable, but I was wondering if writing about narc parents is harder for you? I noticed you tend to prefer posting about romantic relationships, so I thought perhaps it’s because you feel you are in a bigger position of power in such dynamics, while you have experience as a victim in a family context.
Either way, thank you.
Final note: I have been helping a friend go no contact with her narcissist, and it’s your information that has helped the most. You would be impressed with her, or better with how your work has helped her.
Have a great day.
Your mother is pure evil. My mother thought it was corny to say ” I love you”
That is a shame, HG.
Some individuals can not give love and can not be successful parents.
I commend you for the decision not to have children.
Children need and deserve to feel loved and nurtured.
The word c++twaffle and c++tbucket come to mind
The A to Z of this post describes my mother perfectly!
She’s nothing but a trashy Jezebel Lesser-Narcissistic Witch!!
The Wicked Witch of the West!
This is so accurate…I think I would add a couple:
“I always made sure you had the best birthday parties” = I want all mums to admire and envy me and marvel at how I can be such a wonderful mother
“I only want what’s best for you”= I will make you doubt all your choices, and I will guilt-trip you to death if you don’t do what I want
“You deserve better than him, he should treat you like a princess…” = I will says this even if he is wonderful, setting impossible standards, because I don’t want you to be in meaningful relationships…I don’t want to share control
“It’s all for you”= It was always, ever, about me.
Those are good ones!
Erin, at first I wanted to write that I know all of that besides your “You deserve better….” then I remembered that my mother exactly said this to me during our (narc and me) golden period and changed her opinion to “He deserves better …” when he started to treat me bad and she defended him – always!. Now she says: “I did not know what kind of bad man he really is.” She will change her mind again when she meets him at random. All that for power and control.
She still makes a lot of trouble. Subtile trouble. But nevertheless – she loses a lot of power. And what she underestimated – I will not do the home care for her. I would have done that for her , but that is over.
Yes, there you learned that words have a different meaning. Behaviour and words did not fit together besides the last sentence.
I never heard by my mother : ” I do not love you.”
She is not able to tell the truth to me.
But she confessed last week that she never loved a man in her life and that she does not understand why woman talk about love. She cannot understand what love means. She never experienced that feeling for a man.
Is she able to love a woman or a child? I do not know.
She confessed this week that she fell in my back in former times. Of course she did not apology her behaviour – but at least she told the truth. She did not tell me freely, I pressed her to tell the truth.
After so many different explanations, excuses, lies – the truth.
It is a relief for me and at the same time much more sadness.
I do not know, whether she knows that I do not love her anymore. Perhaps she fears it, because I am the only one who cares for her.
“It is a relief for me, and at the same time much more sadness.”
Boy do I know how that feels! I think that perfectly describes how it feels whenever we get proof for how they really feel.
Windstorm, yes that is a sad, sad feeling. And nobody understands you, because you have “such a good mother. You should be glad to have such a mother.”
Yeah, I’ve heard that too many times too! Especially from her family. That and so many similar, “You had such a wonderful childhood. You never lacked for anything growing up. You never appreciated how blessed you were….”
Ouch! That’s my childhood right there and neatly packaged as well;)
My mother was an emotional vampire, she lived and breathed emotional disaster, she still does. A demanding need to be in the midst of all attention at all times. If not, there would be some awful drama; even if she was, there could be a tantrum anyway; and whatever you said could be used against you for a dramatic rage that left the whole family exhausted. Long sessions of accusations, silent treatments, emotionally and manipulative ways to get admired. She was everywhere, utterly shameless, forever projecting, without boundaries, treating me like an extension of herself. I grew up filled with guilt and shame. I could never love her the way she demanded to be loved, I could never escape her either. In truth I feared her.
Today we actually have a better relationship than ever, I guess the heart grows fonder with distance. But still whenever I hear my phone ringing and see her name on the display I have this kind of sinking feeling in the stomach. If I pick up I know there is no way I can tell her I’m busy, even though I am, because that’s an affront to her and then I will be made to pay for that, and I know that I can’t even hang up in 15 minutes because her calls are endless and only she decides when they possibly can come to an end. Then there is the matter of conversation. I listen while she talks, I need to use a special admiring voice full of declarations of how important she is to me, otherwise there will be hell to pay. And if I choose not to pick up the phone at all by nightfall my guilt will almost have killed me anyway so I might as well call her. Phew! Draining to say the least.
Trying to help pfft of course she uses that excuse now!
You can’t buy my love Mother dearest.
Nor can you buy your grandchildren..like when you told me you gifted my now deceased son, money.
Well you could of told me how much you loved him, not what you gave him!!!
You’re everything I will never be and that really gets to you.
I awoke finally! You Controlling matriarch, actually all your children have seen the light away from your darkness.
Such a shame your Husband hasn’t yet, the husband you glorify, sad fool has Stockholm syndrome.
You cannot control me for I have awoken to your pure evil venom.
I depart soon, across Country with my remaining child, he will never be tainted by your morphed evil distorted blackness.
Mother knows nothing..
You do not feel.
Flying free, now I can’t be far enough
HG can you make one about narcissistic fathers? My father in law is a mid ranger.
I find this post very enlightening. I am not a narc, but married into a family rife with dysfunction. I assumed custody of my 13 year old niece and raised her for 6 years.
On August 20, she walked into my bedroom and told me she was moving out. That day. I was shocked and upset, but not surprised. I had ignited her fury by questioning – rather benignly – some of her choices.
I have made some of the statements in this post, so it was interesting to see the narc response. And here I thought I was just making convo and showing interest in her emerging adult life. Little did I realize how she processed this.
And I stopped giving fuel when I realized the manipulation. Once I stopped, she was outta here.
And playing victim. Somewhere. Not my problem anymore.
Gone are the days i take what my mum says as gospel and gone are the days the try to figure it out or take it to heart.
Any mother that says i dont love you to their child is f’ed up and doesnt deserve to be a mother!
my mother is a borderline. that is a different type of crazy mom.
So is mine but it flows into mid range narc very easily. They are monsters.
one of my ex mother in laws is a mid mid ranger. i still have to deal with her. her latest theatrics, was taking my son on vacation. she blocked my phone number so i could not call him. i finally *67 and went around her block and she pretended she was not getting a signal. I straight out told her, “no you blocked my number. its ok, i always know a way to get around your stunts”. she was furious and angry i would say such a thing. she denied it, called my ex to have him threaten me for being mean to his mom, she is still giving me the silent treatment. my son came home and said, “yeah, so my nanna said we were going on a vacation to get away and you wont be allowed to call me.” ….along with other stuff that he could not make up. I have a solid relationship with my son, i am sorry he has to experience this lady taking him to crazy town.
Yes to all of these! I was also lucky enough as a child to hear a slip of the truth twice that I can remember when she was especially angry and told me “I hate you.” When she confronted me about my going no contact a couple of weeks ago, I got “I love you unconditionally.” Hahaha. Her love has been nothing but conditional my entire life. In the same conversation, after calling her out on my nightmare of a childhood, I was told I had a wonderfully perfect childhood; one that kids dream of having. (eye roll) Nope, she is an evil manipulative woman (midrange I believe) who abused and controlled me my entire life. She brought my lesser narc stepdad into the picture and he joined in on the abuse and decided he owned me. I’m finally strong enough to say no more, I’m done, peace out. I cut the toxic apron strings and made a bid for freedom.
This one hit home for me. My mother told me that “I was a mistake.” She (said) she was meant to be an actress and a model (and in true form and in reality … she was very pretty and also dramatic) … but by the age of 22 she had 3 kids… I was the youngest. When I read this I cried… and then I was immediately reminded of what my recent ex narc BF said to me one time. … since we met when he was married and I helped break up his marriage and then we were together for a few years … which of course we fought all the time… during one of the arguments he said ” meeting you was a mistake.” … this being said on the heels of telling me how imbedded I was in him, how he never actually “fell in love” before he met me… and as usual the conversation somehow went downhill and he threw that zinger at me. Reading this immediately showed me the connection. I put up with this shit from him because that was what my mother instilled in me to believe. (horrible mother that she was). Oh my, what a discovery you made me see, HG. I don’t know whether I want to thank you or slap you upside the head. Well since I am NOT the same as my mother (constantly slapping me upside the head) I will be who I am and graciously say Thank You for your contribution to my discovery and healing, HG. ~
You are welcome.
One of the things she would say is, “You’re gonna wish you were never born.” Or, “You’re going to be very sorry”. Or, “You’re going to go to Hell”.
I just wrote a couple of paragraphs but hit delete on it all. No point in what I was going to say because it’s not something that would benefit you. Rather, here is a response/question/food for thought:
You clearly have awareness. What are you working towards with this information, in a productive way? I’m compelled to believe the work of Dr. O and Dr. E nudged you in this direction, and I’m sure your natural reaction is to continue beating down the creature and hating your mother. This is not effective because it is causing YOU further damage. It causes you more damage than it causes her.
When you authored this, what are the feelings you felt and what are the feelings you wish to attain, hopefully post-healing, when revisiting those echos of her words?
The “it was just a joke” one was the bane of my existence whenever I was with my mother.