I Will Tell You A Secret


The telling of a secret is a very useful manipulation.

In the first instance, we may tell you a genuine secret about somebody else because we are adept at garnering information about other people, gaining their trust and their confidence. Your reaction to this will provide us with fuel. It is also highly likely that you will tell somebody else because as we all know, if you want to keep something secret, do not tell anybody else. How many times have you been told a secret and heard the words, “Don’t tell anyone else but…” before the confidence is breached by the person speaking to you and you go on to do the same. It does not take long before the secret is amongst many people and is no longer a secret. Accordingly, we have gained fuel and we have also set a cat amongst the pigeons as somebody else’s secret becomes the subject of the day’s gossip and more. The person who is the subject of this released secret may well confront us about our indiscretion, which will naturally be denied and more fuel is gathered.

In the second instance the provision of the secret is all about drawing you into our world. By making it appear that you are privy to information about someone else or even better, about us, we appear to be taking you into our circle of trust, our ring of confidence. It is an effective way of making a victim feel special. This act of passing you some information which is given the label of a secret is designed to signal to you that we apparently trust you. Trust is a most important factor in the dealings between people and of course especially for those who are of an empathic nature. This nugget of secrecy may be passed to you as a Non Intimate Secondary Source (a friend or colleague) or as part of your seduction as we rope you in as our Intimate Partner Secondary Source en route to you becoming our Intimate Partner Primary Source. We want you to feel special, we want you to feel trusted, desired and set apart from all the others. Passing you a secret is a sure fire way to achieve this.

By causing you to think that you know something that nobody else knows about us, you feel as if you have been admitted to the inner sanctum. Our aim, when dealing with any of our victims, is to have them subsumed into our world. This means that you are bedazzled by the illusion that we have created, you will thus be under our control in our world and you will provide us with what we want, namely The Prime Aims . Whether this bedazzling is fleeting – in the instance of an interaction with a Tertiary Source, or longstanding – the years of manipulation of an IPPS – the aim remains the same. We must pull you into our world, own you and control you and that way we get what we want.

There are numerous ways of doing this but telling you a secret is a very effective way of doing this. We tell you that you are the only one who knows this about us, that we trust nobody except you (cue some sob story about why we will not trust and this will be predicated on our view of the world being full of harsh and betraying people) and that we know you will not tell anybody else because you would never do anything to harm us. Your earnest response and assurances that our apparent trust is well-placed in you, provides us with fuel. It also provides us with a useful indicator of how you are submitting to our control and being absorbed into our world.

What you fail to realise is that this supposed secret that we have conveyed to you in hushed tones, in a reverent manner as if we are passing down some weighty and earth-shattering revelation, is invented. We have our secrets, indeed much of our life is spent moving in the shadows and ensuring that those skeletons stay firmly in the closet. We do not want you knowing about those secrets. They must remain hidden because we do not trust you at all. Instead, we fabricate some secret about ourselves and pass it off as something nobody else knows about us and that you are the esteemed recipient of our innermost secrets.

It might be something to do with our family, an event in our past, some achievement which we apply false modesty too, some interesting peccadillo that we have engaged in. The content is varied but so long as it attracts the mantle of requiring secrecy it will serve its purpose. Remember this conveyance of the secret occurs during our seduction of you, when we are focused on drawing you into our world, when we lock on to you and truly make you seem like the only person in the world who matters. Our considerable charm, our lack of concern or morality for our actions enable the lies to spill readily from our lips. We want you to trust us and for you to think that we trust you. By seemingly unlocking the gate to our heart and our innermost vulnerabilities, the provision of a secret to you signals to you that we must trust you. This feels wonderful to you. This amazing person who has pledged love and devotion to you, who has made you feel magnificent, who has come as the answer to all your prayers is someone you want. You want to be friends with this interesting and capable person and when this new best friend lets you in on a supposed secret then surely that is your admission to our inner circle? You want the grace and favour we hold as your boss and if the boss confides in you, then does not that mean you are the chosen one in the workplace? Most of all, you want this person to remain your love interest forever and a day and when we share that secret with you and only you, then that demonstrates to you that you are now regarded as trusted confidante. Your elation is palpable and you have just been bound to us even tighter.

Of course, since this secret is fabricated there is no danger perceived by us that if you ever betrayed us and disclosed this secret, we could readily deny it and even point to something which proves that it is not true. At this point we have no interest in keeping you onside as we will already have begun to devalue you. As an empathic individual who is honest and decent, you would not have chosen to disclose this apparent secret first. You will only do so as a reaction to how we have treated you and thus should you decide to disclose it, you will be in devaluation, smeared and possibly dis-engaged from also. Your revelation is either seen as bitterness, jealousy or the rantings of a unhinged abuser who we have sought to escape from and its content has next to no impact on us. We do not, by this stage, care that you have discovered the secret to be false, indeed, your reaction to this revelation just provides us with fuel.

Whether the dynamic with us is familial, social, work or romantic the repeated provision of secrets draws you into our world. It makes you feel special, it makes you feel anointed as a special person to us and to be held in such regard by someone you admire, appreciate and/or love means much to you. It secures your loyalty, it gains your fuel and allows us to exert control over you. That delicious tingle of excitement as we make you our co-conspirator with secrets about others or ourselves tells you that we must really trust you and that you are now elevated.

The provision of secrets is done with many people that we seduce, be they inner circle friends, colleagues or intimate sources. The telling of a secret is a masterful way to make you seem as if you are the only one who matters to us, that we trust you and therefore our relationship with you is special indeed.

Not such a secret now though.

121 thoughts on “I Will Tell You A Secret

  1. J says:

    @SuperXena–You ask, “Wouldn’t you want to make this battle easier for you?” The answer: Yes. I would want my battle to be of maximum ease. However, that was simply not my reality, not my path (and perhaps not Jenna’s?). I had to meet myself where I was and do what was possible for me. Taking the slow road was, as you say, a large percentage about my emotional thinking tying me to him. However, it was also that the quick road led to Grand Hoovers that I was powerless against. The slow road allowed me to disappear largely unnoticed. (By the time he hoovered, I was WELL across the Emotional Sea.) When one is weak, I believe the first step is to honestly acknowledge one’s weakness and then determine how one can BEGIN to build strength. Being told by friends, family, other forums, etc., that I should have been stronger, was, for me, not helpful. It was just more shame. (I’m NOT saying you did this at all BTW.) I found putting aside the shame and still taking the advice, though in very slow motion, was the trick for me. And it worked.

    The only other point I would make is this: I think we do ourselves and others on the forum a disservice by not acknowledging the seriousness of the Emotional Sea for some. It is horrible for anyone, but for some, it is quite literally a life and death battle and, perhaps, the only life they have ever known. There are many out there who will never make it across. They will either go back to their N or kill themselves or both. I am of the view that ANY way someone can get across their Emotional Sea, is legit. Full NC is the safe shore there in the distance, where you can and should learn to make more healthy choices in the future. BUT, for now, KEEP SWIMMING any way you can!

  2. Narc Angel says:

    Well its probably for the best that I missed this thread…………

  3. littlebit says:

    Soooo, where did we land on the group hug idea?!
    Latest Narc told me a secret on our first date. Of course, now I look back on that date and see how many techniques he used to reel me in, but I also look back wistfully on it as the “connection” we had was so incredible. Now I know the man I fell in love with didn’t exist but I still pine for him. I saw the red flags but didn’t want to believe. I’ve been NC for 2 days as he’s now saying he can’t do a loving relationship but we can be friends (with benefits, of course!) and he thinks I’m so special I deserve so much more than he can offer, blah blah. I can’t honestly say that I won’t cave and agree to this to keep him in my life, even though I know what he is. What is so mortifying is how he hooked me so quickly and easily while I was congratulating myself at ridding myself of my husband Narc and a short-lived boyfriend Narc.
    I met Latest Narc on a dating site, my profile was very honest and detailed so he had tonnes of green lights, he knew I would gush fuel as the info I provided made it clear I had several of the special traits that would attract an elite MRN. I just read Sitting Target, and when I am ready to move on and date again I won’t be making the same mistakes. Of course that won’t be happening until I lose all hope that I’m wrong, that he’s just damaged and I can heal him, etc etc blah blah!

    1. Tappan Zee says:

      littlebit— Of course that won’t be happening until I lose all hope that I’m wrong, that he’s just damaged and I can heal him, etc etc blah blah!

      ^honest and tragic xx

  4. Jenna says:

    I had believed nobody has the authority to make judgements unless knowing a significant amt of information abt the person, their childhood history, the level or narc abuse they have or have NOT suffered (eg. no physical, financial, sexual, or verbal abuse in my case), their psychological symptoms, physical symptoms, and many other factors. Hg informed me that in itself is a judgement. I have adopted this thinking.

    I do wish to point out that whatever one writes, it will be beneficial to relay it in a kind manner. If one does not agree w something, a diplomatic, kind sentiment will suffice. Harsh words can hurt. If one does not care abt hurting others w their words, well then, that is a matter for them. How is one then different than the hurtful narc? Let’s not b like the narc. Let’s b thoughtful in the manner of relaying our beliefs.

    If one is subject to hurtful comments, sarcastic comments, erroneous assumptions repeatedly, it may influence a person to leave. Do we want that? Do we only care if we ourselves are here benefitting? Or do we want others to benefit too? If we want others to benefit too, as i am sure will be the answer, then pls use kindness and think b4 posting. Delete and edit if u must.
    Pls let’s try to make this an environment such that nobody feels so misunderstood that they give up and choose to leave, in order to avoid more conflict.

    Of course if u don’t care, then that is a matter for u. If u disagree w me, fine. Also pls recognize one’s own behavior, b4 proudly declaring how much of an empath one is.

    I have been accused of being a narc myself. It hurt me. ‘Narc’ is really a four letter word here. Be attentive of this.

    I wud like to give an example. Instead of writing “you are a narc, u feel entitlement, u have no self awareness”, one may word it like this: “imo, some of ur behavior comes across as narcissistic. Of course, even empaths have narcissistic traits. Wud u be willing to provide me with examples of u not behaving in an entitled manner, so that i may form a more accurate opinion? Ty.”

    Blank, i am not directing this at u. I am making a general statement. I have been hurt by a handful of pple here. And those sarcastic comments receive many (well maybe 7) likes. It hurts me alot. I wanted to leave many times but i just cud not. The benefits of being here outweigh the disadvantages. I have also developed many lovely friendships here, which i treasure. And i miss interacting w hg v much.

    1. Twilight says:


      Do you realize you just told people how they should behave here?

      There are many just showing up that still hold an incredible amount of hurt and anger, they need a place to be able to voice their opinion and sometimes this will not be in a calm nice manner. Now I do not believe one should tell another to OD or insinuate one should kill themselves. There are many perspectives and there will be a clash at times, many work things out in the end.

      I can promise you this if I call you a narcissist you are one, I do not do this unless I am sure.

      Did you know I almost left because of you? I am not telling you this to hurt your feelings, just be aware.

      For the record I work through what bothered me, it is nothing to worry about. I take sensitive to an entire different level it is my awareness that helps me identify and deal with it.

      1. Jenna says:

        Hi twilight,

        I am making suggestions. I have stated above “if u disagree w me, fine.” It is not imperative that one follow this. It is my opinion that taking out one’s anger towards a third party is not fair. Again, if one wishes to do so, fine.

        If i was the cause of u wanting to leave, i am quite dismayed and it makes me v sad. There was a conflict btwn me and 2 readers several months back, but neither of them was u. U commented towards the end with ur opinion. I replied to u, but not all of the replies were posted.

        I too, wanted to leave that time. I was crying every day that week. Pls don’t think i want ur pity. I don’t. I just want to point out that i was very affected by the incident as well.

        Pple will do what they desire. I wud hope that this desire is to relay thoughts using kindness. If not, to each his own.

        1. Twilight says:


          I knew you were upset

          People judge, people hold anger and when it comes to the surface it can be in words, tears,manipulation or much worse.

          Sometimes it does get heated here which doesn’t surprise me,this is a painful subject.

          You have come a long ways sense you frist started to comment and the way you do things will be different.

          I hope you decided to go nc, it will hurt, you have here and support from many. This thou is one thing only you can do. You are not alone,

    2. SuperXena says:

      I find three of your statements interesting:

      1.”The benefits of being here outweigh the disadvantages. ”
      Your choice of words: benefits v.s. disadvantages speaks a lot.
      Which benefits do you get?
      Which disadvantages do you get?
      Is that the way you always see things when doing/saying something? Analysing what benefits are for you to obtain?

      2.”I have also developed many lovely friendships here, which i treasure. ”
      As far as I know, this forum is not for making friends. How can you consider it a friendship when you do not even know them?

      3.”And i miss interacting w hg v much.”
      What have you learned of this interaction ( and the interaction with other bloggers) in the context of NPD ?

      1. Jenna says:

        Hi sx,

        1.i have been asked this question recently. A reader asked me why am i here when it is so triggering for me? I had to think abt this deeply. I am trying to be more introspective. I am here becoz i benefit frm reading hg’s material (as does everyone). In my case, it helps me to understand narcissism much better and allows me to interact w my ex in a manageable fashion. Of course, there are drawbacks, like when pple judge me. It hurts. But then why do i keep coming back i wonder? It must be becoz of my codependency issues, and becoz the benefits outweigh the disadvantages?

        No, i do not always see things in terms of benefits to obtain. Absolutely not.

        2.this is my first and only online forum experience. I was not interested in other ‘support’ forums because i needed answers, which i could only get frm a narcissist himself. I did not know what to expect. I posted here several times per wk. When hg was not moderating for 3 days or more, i was missing the blog. I was even missing interacting w certain pple that i had been interacting regularly with. I expressed this sentiment upon hg’s return. I started considering some pple my friends. I asked them if it’s ok to refer to them as friends, and they replied that it wud be their pleasure😊

        3.i have learned alot. Too much for me to list.

        Ty sx for ur inquiry.

        1. SuperXena says:

          Thank you for expanding. I will write briefly:

          1. I find your answer very contradictory and confusing because:

          A) On one hand you are “trying” to implement No contact with your ex narc but you have not blocked him

          B) On the other hand you say :” allows me to interact w my ex in a manageable fashion.”

          So how is it going to be A or B? They are mutually exclusive.
          This is a question just for you. I do not need any answer.

          2. I think we have completely different concepts of what a friendship/or a friend is.
          For me a person does not become a friend just by calling them friends. My concept of friendship/friend is based on entirely different premises than yours.

          3.It makes me wonder if you really have gripped the essence of what is taught here. And I refer to what I said on my paragraph 1.

          Jenna, no offence : you do not need to expand your answers to me any further. It is all right for me. My comments are only for you to reflect.

          1. J says:

            I’m going to defend one thing Jenna said about ” trying to go NC, but interact in a manageable fashion.” For some of us that is a legit pathway to NC. Are you going to get hurt? Yes. He’s a narc. Is it going to take longer? Yes. Is it the optimum way to achieve NC? No. However, but for taking those intermediate steps to NC, I would STILL be dangling on my Ns fishing line. Each day I cut another cord. I cut off his lieutenants or I took longer to reply to texts or I went increasingly more gray rock. And now, he is 100% gone in the only way, for me, that was possible. I tried cold turkey multiple times. So, yes, I agree with my colleagues on the panel. A narc is a narc is a narc. He either is or he isn’t. If he is, he will consume and destroy you… BY DEFINITION and he will never change. The only safe way out is, ultimately, NC.

          2. SuperXena says:

            Hello J,
            I understand what you mean.

            Remember: No Contact is a battle with yourself not with him.
            No Contact is giving you the time you need to ultimately winning your final own battle: your freedom.

            Why making your own battle more difficult to win by continuing interacting with him and “feeding” your emotional attachment to him?

            You have to first take the rational decision of taking him out of your mind/thoughts.Otherwise you would keep falling back betrayed by your own emotions.

            I know you feel is a process of cutting cords.

            As long as you continue interacting with him ( in any way: directly or indirectly by i.ex. checking what he does etc.) or allow it ( by not blocking him completely from your life), you are still “feeding “your emotions .

            By doing this, you are sabotaging your own battle. Your emotions in this context of NPD are your worst enemy.
            Wouldn’t you want to make this battle easier for you?

          3. Jenna says:

            Hi sx,

            Yw. I don’t mind answering, since u r wondering.

            When i wrote “I am here becoz i benefit frm reading hg’s material (as does everyone). In my case, it helps me to understand narcissism much better and allows me to interact w my ex in a manageable fashion” i was re-writing my answer to another reader, in that paragraph. As i said, she wanted to know why i am here when it is so triggering for me. So, she basically wanted to know what BROUGHT me here. Pls look at the context of that sentence in that paragraph, the time frame i am referring to, and the verb tenses used.

            2)regarding ‘friendship’ here:
            In my real life, i did not tell anybody abt my relationship w ex narc. Our relationship was a secret. At one pt, i did tell 2 friends irl, but it caused alot of prblms btwn us, becoz they just could not understand. Here, many pple know my story. I feel free to talk abt what’s on my mind. In real life, friends used to say i look preoccupied. It was because i WAS preoccupied, thinking abt him. I wud only half participate in conversations with friends, becoz my mind was somewhere else. As soon as i wud get home, i wud read the blog and make a comment abt what was on my mind. I wud receive several replies. I was pleasantly surprised that pple here get me. And they were not offering merely sympathy. They were offering their own experience, in the context of hg’s information. It is extremely valuable. We share abt love, fears, childhood abuse, diagnoses, etc. Each article hg posts induces discussion of such topics. In my personal life, we share abt activities, meals, shopping, cooking, small fears like spiders (not deep fears like feeling suffocated frm a panic attack). I do not share deep fears, childhood abuse, medical diagnosis w anyone in my personal life. It makes me feel vulnerable. Plus, they do not understand, and all they would do is offer me sympathy, which i don’t want. So, how can i not consider these readers my friends? Mind u, i do not consider everyone here a ‘friend’. There are abt 6 or 7 pple in particular who know my story, and i know theirs, who i consider a friend. It is a special bond i feel here, and i treasure it. I do not feel a strong ‘attachment’ to anyone here, meaning i can live without interacting with them, but i definitely feel a bond.

            3.i have learned alot frm hg’s material. Have i learned everything? No. There is always more to learn. Do i know that my not blocking him is not full nc? Hg pointed out that it is not nc at all, forget abt partial nc. So now i do. But, i am trying. This is the best i can do for now. If i could do more, i would have done it long ago. The ‘abuse’ had never escalated to such a level that i felt i needed to get out. Nex is kind 90% of the time, which is more than others in my life. Hg has an article abt the mmrn. He states that their main ‘weapon’ is politeness and respectful behavior. God, i have seen this first hand.

            Take care sx.

    3. Blank says:

      You know what hurts me Jenna?

      -you telling us what we can and can’t do
      -reading allll your all comments, feeling annoyed like hell and not be able to commend on them, because you’ll be hurt
      -you being on this website, reading all the good lessons HG gives us and then totally ignore everything he says
      -you telling us you have gone no contact when in fact you haven’t (I can read this in your recent comments)
      Jenna, be whoever you want to be, say whatever you want to say, but to say you are hurt when other people speak their minds, that is really a narcish way to tell people to shut up.
      I have walked on eggshells all my life. I refuse to do it any longer.
      If you are going to be hurt by what I say, so be it. Maybe you need to toughen up, I learned how to do it too. People don’t say harsh words to hurt you, but to make you see what you can not see, or refuse to see.
      If you don’t like to be hurt Jenna, get the narc out of your life!

      PS: I know you said you were not directing at me, but I felt free to comment anyway.

      1. Jenna says:

        Hi blank,

        Ty for ur opinion.

        I gave my opinion. I do not wish to annoy u. Pls feel free to comment on my posts. I hope u will do so in a kind manner, that’s all.

        I am on nc day 12. I have not blocked him tho, so it is not a full nc. I have not replied to any of his hoovers tho.

        “If you don’t like to be hurt Jenna, get the narc out of your life!”
        He doesn’t hurt me that much. I have been hurt more here. I am not saying this so that u will not comment. It is a simple fact.

        For the record, i have no negative feelings towards u.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is not no contact at all.

          1. Jenna says:

            OK hg. Thank u.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

      2. Sniglet says:

        Blank, some of the points you mentioned with regard to Jenna are her manipulation tactics on others. It is ingrained in her, her replies and her circular reasoning. That is my opinion. Don’t walk on egg shells for anybody any more because you have freedom of speech.

        Jenna, go cold turkey 100% NC with your x-man, delete his number, be considerate and release him from this strong hold you have on him. By the way, I question if he is truly a narc. What if he is an empath who does not want to be with you, but still cares enough to keep in contact just to ensure that you are well during your depression? If he truly wanted to be with you, be certain that you would be in his arms right now. He is not in the Amazon jungle is he?

        1. Jenna says:

          My dear sniglet,

          I see u’ve found ur way to this page. Welcome! 💐

          “… some of the points you mentioned with regard to Jenna are her manipulation tactics on others. It is ingrained in her…”


          “… her circular reasoning”

          I will think abt this one. Further introspection on my part is required.

          “Don’t walk on egg shells for anybody any more because you have freedom of speech.”

          Correct. Anyone may comment as she wills. I hope it will be w kindness.
          In fact, you’ve made a very good point. Since reading these comments, i was thinking that i better not tell anyone if i feel hurt, in order not to annoy them. But alas, you’ve reminded me of freedom of speech. So, the same rules wud apply to me, no? I have just decided that i WILL tell someone if their comment has hurt me. They can still feel free to comment tho, due to freedom of speech. As can i.

          Hg said nex is a mid-range narc.

          The remainder of ur post is appreciated, tho i found the ‘amazon jungle’ comment a little insensitive.

          Anyhow, that’s sniglet for ya. She is what she is. I still like u, sniglet.

      3. Jenna, if you’ve been hurt more here then you haven’t interacted with a narc.

      4. Sniglet says:

        You know this Jenna (many women do too) ~ when a man wants to be with a woman, nothing will stop him, save for few exceptions. If he does not come to you, he does not want you and you move on.

        Be strong!

        1. Jenna says:


          I would not know frm personal experience. I’ve never been dumped. I know frm common sense tho.

      5. Blank says:

        Dear Jenna, this is going to be a long comment, I like clear communication. I wish I could address this to you privately, but unfortunately that is not possible here. I think nobody wishes to annoy anyone here on purpose Jenna. Your comments on this website annoyed me, because you have a ‘submissive’ way of expressing yourself, because you go on and on in details (“I said this… he did that”), which is okay in itself, although it’s not my style, but it seems like you totally do not get what people try to say to you.
        The whole narc thing is really quite simpel to get.
        Either the man you are involved with is a narc, or he isn’t.
        A narc is a narc is a narc and will forever be a narc.
        So, when your man is a narc he is NOT gonna change Jenna, although he’ll say this and you like to believe him.
        Just sit back and imagine how you would think if you were a narc, meaning: having NO empathy whatsoever, not feeling guilt, not feeling shame. It is hard to imagine, but try. Think of some daily happenings and try to imagine how you would act if you were a narc, without the empathy, the guilt, the shame. Think of how you would act in a relationship where you feel no love towards the other.
        You would be a completely different person and you would act totally different. It’s not about you liking banana’s and the narc preferring apples, or you liking Beyoncé and your Narc ‘enjoying’ Depeche Mode ;). Narcissists have a completely different way of thinking.
        Therefor do not ever expect your narc to change, to ever gonna love you. No such thing will ever happen.

        Jenna, I know how extremely hard it is to cut ties with a narc. I’ve been there. I still miss my last narc. But I realize the whole thing was fake. I miss loving him, I miss the thought and feeling of him loving me, I miss the fairytale love. It was a fantasy. Being in love causes your mind to produce dope, just like heroine would. It’s addictive. You want the feeling to stay forever. Therefore you keep going back.
        Also, with a narc you never get closure like after relationships with ‘normals’. HG always tells how it is the effect of the golden period that keeps you coming back.That is absolutely true. But we also keep going back because there is no closure, we want to know the truth, we want answers, we want to understand WTF has happened. How? Why? What for? What did I do that caused you to hurt me like that? But you will never get the answers. That’s why narcs will stay in your mind for a long time, if not for ever.
        In the end of my engagement with the last narc I was in an utter state of confusion, due to all the gaslighting. I remember at one point my mind completely blocked, I could not think anymore, that was a very scary occurrence. That’s when I decided I’d either commit suicide or I really should get treatment. The therapist was kind and friendly, but I think even therapists don’t understand narsissistic victime syndrome if they haven’t experienced the abuse themselves.
        But he taught me to set boundaries and said ‘you are selling yourself short, you have to take care of your own needs’.
        The only way to stop the whole narc thing is to understand what has happened, what narcissists are all about and to stop the dope in your head. Therefor you need to go no contact, like Sniglet said in her comment: Cold Turkey. It is very hard, you wouldn’t know how much I’ve cried over the recent years (during and after my engagement with the narc), but in the end it will all work out for the best. To have a clear mind and to feel happiness again, no hurt, no anxiety, no depression, no sociophobia, no… It’s priceless.

        I agree with ‘strongerwendy’ here, if you’ve been hurt more on this website than by your narc, maybe you need to think twice if this guy really is a narc at all. Because I can not imagine how strangers that don’t even know you, could hurt you more than the words and actions of a narc, only by giving their opinion (but hey, I can not feel what you feel and I do not mean to tell you what or how you should feel).
        Of course, people have relationship problems with ‘normals’ too and they can be very bad also, but that is not what this website is about.
        Please do not take this as if I say: ‘so you better leave now’, I totally do not mean that. I just wish for you to understand what is going on in your relationship and to really take the lessons in you’ll get from HG.
        About comments on the website: differing in opinions does not equal having negative feelings towards another. I speak for myself here. I’d rather see harsh comments and know it’s the truth, than notice people shutting up only because they feel the need to please each other all of the time. I wish you the best Jenna, don’t find yourself in unloving, abusive relationships. Try to work on your self-esteem.
        This is my opinion, feel free to ignore every word of it, if that is what you’d wish. I hope you’ll work things out for yourself. xx

        1. Jenna says:

          HI blank,

          Yes, i am a little submissive, with everyone except my mom and intimate partner. If it’s not ur style, then does that mean it’s ok to change my style too? Because i’m dying to!

          I really appreciate ur comment. I appreciate that ur tone was not angry. I wil get back to u shortly.

          Rn, i have something to take care of, using a different style. Wish me luck!

      6. Blank says:


        -why is it that you ask me if it’s okay to change your style?

        -why do you use a style here that apparently you are dying to want to change?

  5. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,


    Hugs to you all


  6. littlebit says:

    “We are the Tudorites” – love it! I feel a little like I’ve joined a cult, but at least we’re worshipping someone who deserves our devotion more than the other, inferior Narcs we’ve been entangled with. Now can we have a group hug?🤗

  7. Not So Sad says:

    HG Tudor
    November 30, 2017 at 01:28

    So, what was he doing when I was being abused? What has he been doing when I abuse others?..

    This ^^^^^^^^^^

    1. Tappan Zee says:

      NSS— So, what was he doing when I was being abused? What has he been doing when I abuse others?.

      ^ working this out too.

      1. Not So Sad says:

        Tappan .

        I’ve just read your comment about rape.. I’m so sorry this happened you.

        ( Hugs )

        NNS XX x

    2. narc affair says:

      Bad things happen to people and thats probably a huge reason people dont believe in a god or religion and thats their decision to make. For me i dont blame god for the evil in this world. I blame man bc we have free choice. I can sympathize with how others may feel differently. We all come from different backgrounds and beliefs.

      1. Not So Sad says:

        Hi NC .

        I competently get what you’re trying to say BUT going back to my comment & my quote from HG If there is a god ..

        “So, what was he doing when I was being abused? What has he been doing when I abuse others?..*

        if man has a free will as you say why would any ” god ” allow some one to suffer so much ?

  8. Super Empath says:

    Lots of wounded people in here, this ‘secret topic,’ ran off the tracks fast.

  9. I do believe this calls for a genuine apology on my part to the whole board. I let my anger lead me into posting what I did. Understand my belief is still the same, but I could have just said religious beliefs differ, could we please leave religion out of the discussion.

    So, I do apologize.

    This was a hard decision as I really did enjoy the rest of the discussion. But I think everyone else in the discussion were acting far more reasonably then myself.

    Even though I strenuously disagree on this subject with Desiree, I have enjoyed reading other comments from her. She is a part of this community, and I do enjoy this community.

    I was also heartened that I really did not get hate from this and pleasantly surprised that I am not the only one that holds these beliefs.

    Thank you to all
    My apologies to all,


  10. Restored Heart,

    My comment to you was uncalled for. I think now, what you were trying to do was make a kind and caring remark to defuse the situation, and I took it as another appeal to religious authority. My bad.

    I still stand on my preference to not do to someone what they do not want done to them.
    You are under no obligation to do anything to anyone,


    1. Restored Heart says:


      Thankyou & I do appreciate this. Admittedly, I did not further engage with you on it as for me it is important that no matter our beliefs we should be respectful in how we express them. I just find it more constructive. I learnt much through interacting with another non believer in here last week & I hope she did of me also. I also understand sometimes emotions or triggers or being passionate about something or alike can play a part in our responses. (& I mean no judgement by that.)

      Fair enough in standing by your preference it’s your choice. It just wouldn’t work for me as my own disorders left me unable to say or stand up for what I didn’t want done to me on too many occasions. Something I am much better at now though. Sometimes people just don’t have that voice.

      I understand that doing unto others as being loving, generous, giving, compassionate etc., all the good stuff you would also want for yourself, & in doing so you make others feel good (I know, some appreciate it more than others but no discrimination here..) & in knowing that, you feel good too. No obligation involved just lots of positive output bringing lots of positive input & growth, love, relationships etc. I’m sure you know what I mean. You said you’ve volunteered at interfaith charities. It wouldn’t matter what sort of charity it was it was the act of doing good. You did it voluntarily. No obligation & I bet it felt good & if you were the one in need, you would appreciate it being done for you. Humans being good to one another. That’s all. If we are not giving of self, that makes us self focussed & we know what that looks like…

      You will always get religion, God/Satan, atheism etc. come up in here in discussions. It is the good v evil thing & as much as you are passionate against it, there are also those passionate for it & we are each entitled to our opinions. HG is generous in letting us express them. If HG doesn’t like them, he doesn’t have to post them being his blog & all. I try to appreciate & learn from the differences like I said I learnt from another non believer last week. There’s always the option to opt out of a particular conversation & move to another.

      I did chuckle when I looked up the bdsm fan next door as I had no idea what it was. (I know what bdsm is of course just not the rest of it) Oh the joy of being celibate again…

      Peace to you also.

      1. Restored Heart,
        Thank you for your reply.You are very wise and considerate.
        It would be best if I opt out of the topics that trigger me! A good place for me to practice my “Don’t do to other people what I don’t want done to me.” I would not like if I were spoken to in that way, so I shouldn’t speak (write) to anyone in that manner.
        I have been on both the receiving and the giving end of charities. Besides getting pleasure from helping others, I am also grateful for the help I have been given. I have always loved the “pay it forward” idea. It seems that if you stop to help someone, like a road break down, or helping them gather dropped objects, they want to pay, or return the favor. I just ask them to help the next person they see that could use it. I don’t know that they do, but i like to think they will help more than just the next person, and maybe ask them to just pay it forward too.
        Your post has cheered me up, but at the same time, I do feel embarrassed at myself, for not acting in a way that lines up with with who I think I am. It is a learning experience I suppose.
        Thanks again, Restored Heart.


      2. Restored Heart says:


        For the record, I think you’re the person I saw in response to Natalie’s post. The one showing concern, compassion, empathy, encouragement etc. That’s your pattern of behaviour I’ve seen. That’s the doing unto others in action. The fact you even came back to me, Desiree & the others to apologise takes humility & courage & shows integrity & learning. I don’t think you need to be embarrassed. None of us are perfect & who are we to judge?

        The ‘paying things forward’ is an awesome concept & there are great stories from those who have done/received from it. Not a bad movie either. Even if it does have Kevin ‘the very deflecting narc’ Spacey in it! 😳🤣


  11. DebbieWolf says:

    Hello all.

    Emotions running high here today.
    I think fair points made all round. I suspect by getting them out in the open that it will feel better for doing so..

    I honestly believe that in reality no one at all meant any harm. Thinking about it all calmly..it is always down to interpretation in writing as to the tone.
    I jumped in myself and had a go at Blank a while back.I leapt in making swift judgements myself with my emotional flag waving wildly!

    I believe you Blank. That you didnt mean it about the prozac since you explained…I also believe Harleen to be an empath. She is feisty thats all and ever ready to quell any threats as are we all.
    Honestly.. I find her to be a strong yet vulnerable lady underneath who is rather nice. Loyal.
    A good friend to have I ll wager.
    So many here are that way.

    I’ve noticed Harleen has become more outspoken since first appearing. HG does encourage us to be honest and get stuff off our chests.

    We are all different and some have stronger views on various different things.

    I think it is great that the opinions have been expressed all round and I see the honesty in them and a little hurt too underneath the steam of annoyance also felt on all sides.

    But in all honesty I think there is no real Malice behind any of it.

    Its all ok you know. Its right to clear the air.
    We are on the same side anyway in this narcabuse we had.
    We are here because we need to be and we can honestly move gently forward on this.

    No I’m not going to start singing Kumbaya before HG invites me to..

    Gently does it.
    Its going to be ok.
    I truely see the good here and i can feel no true bad intent.

    It was all some strongly worded paragraphs of real emotion but at the end of the day, where misunderstandings were initially wrought, and one or two illadvised comments followed full of misunderstanding on quite a few fronts including mine.. I think I can say with a true heart that there is no Malice. Not really.

    Lets heal our wounds.
    We are The Tudorites.

    1. J says:

      I will not argue with you Debbie. I don’t necessarily disagree. I know nothing of anyone’s intentions. However, to be true Tudorites (love it BTW!), we must consider the possibility of an N in our midst pursuing Challenge Fuel. We are here to not only help and support one another, but learn to tamp down our emotional thinking and look for the waving red flags of an N with our new knowledge about how Ns operate. AND knowing that we now have the tools to protect ourselves without having to lash out blindly. We must never forget that Ns LIVE and LURK in that space of ambiguity where we Empaths (and just normal people) take comfort by saying, “Maybe that’s not what he/she really meant.” Yes, maybe. But maybe not. Ns are real. And they are everywhere.

      1. DebbieWolf says:


        Fair comment.

  12. Blank says:

    Hi Harley! Have you finished or should I wait for more comments to come? I can hear you getting more angry with every statement.
    You know, I think it would be more clear if you would address your accusations, so people would know who you are really talking to.
    In this case You don’t have to, I know, you could have cut your anger short by saying: ‘Blank, I hate your guts, I hate you because of your nasty comments to my Narc-letter. Here you are getting likes and thank you’s and even approval of HG. Here you are stating that you love all of humanity. How does that relate to telling me to overdose?’

    Harley, you being a psychologist (I believe you, if you say that is so, I thought you were fake because of the name you use, which is a comic figure), wouldn’t you prefer people to be honest here, rather than just see them making polite comments? Especially because of your profession?
    Don’t you think it is healthy for people to express their minds, anger and frustration as well? Don’t you do the same really? Why is it that you think you can tell people how they should behave? This is a narc site, if one can not be honest here, where else can you be? I think anyone should be able to say anything and anyone can respond to it their way. We live in free countries. I would totally not be offended if someone would call me a narc or make angry statements about me. I am not here for the approval of others. I know myself. I am here to find the truth, to hear what people really think and to discuss matters. HG will decide if comments are too aggressive or in other ways not fit to be put on this website.

    You could have addressed your anger to me personally. I can totally imagine that you are angry with me for telling you you should overdose.
    I did not mean that. I meant it in a way like you say: Fuck you, go to hell, drop dead… you know, those kind of statements you make when you are angry..these aren’t meant literally. If you would stand before me with a box of Prozac, I would have prevented you from taking them. I expressed anger, not because I myself was hurt, but because I felt deeply for your victim. I apologize if you took my comment literally.
    Do I still think you are a narc? Yes, I think you are a narc. I know I could be wrong, but from all I see and read from you I think you are. Especially after I read somehwere that you have never loved anyone. An empath loves people from the time they are in kindergarten. We all hate our narcs at some point in time, but you never talk of empathy nor love in any of your relationships. You want people to notice you, by making comment after comment. How come I don’t know anyone’s profession here, but we all know yours? You like to show off, you are haughty, you have an attitude to look down on others, it’s the way you talk, the things you say. All these things together make me think you could be a narc yourself but maybe you don’t know it. It’s not a judgement, it is an opinion. I do not like to judge any person, as I have never walked in their shoes. But I feel free to say what I think, to tell my believes and to express my emotions and I hope other people will free feel to do the same. Nobody’s comments have to match my opinions nor standards, but I feel free to express my anger or frustration whenever I feel so. These are human emotions. We are not all only about politeness. People need to self reflect, ‘where was I wrong in this, what did I learn, how can I be/act different next time, am I really what I think I am?’ I am well aware of the fact I could be totally wrong about you.

    Harley, I do love people, I love psychopaths too, it is not something I say to look good, it is something I feel. Loving people doesn’t mean you can live or interact with all of them, it doesn’t mean I can not see their evil sides, it means I love people for I can see how they were hurt in childhood, how some have experienced most horriffic things in their lives and because I understand that not everyone is given an empathic brain.
    I love my mother. I truly ‘hate’ her at times, but I still love her.
    I love you too Harley. You probably don’t believe me but I do and I wish you all the best in life.

  13. DebbieWolf says:

    Re: What’s In A Name.

    The name Perse, Queen of Hell Fire could actually have the phrase “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” behind it.

    Indicating a loving, caring, thoughtful individual that has been treated horribly and is hurt from being wronged.

    The name doesn’t necessarily point to being a narc There are often two ways minimum, to look at things.

    One of our strengths is to ponder..to work out..to find the reasons behind things..to make allowances, to re-adjust..to understand..
    And yet this attribute is also a hindrence to us as our emotions propell us into quick judgements at times.

    Again we see even in this that there are two ways minimum to look at even ‘our attribute’ as being positive and negative all at the same time.

  14. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Stop pointing fingers and labeling people – focus on yourself.

    Before someone breaks out the whole “you’re a fake doctor” or “since you’re a psychologist you label people” lemme make this real simple….

    1. This fake psychologist thing is getting old and we have established long ago I am really a psychologist. I am human and I have flaws. My reasons for getting entangled in a narcissistic relationship were different than many other people here. You do not know my background. You have limited information so lets stop right there.
    2. Yes, I have to label people sometimes as a way of communicating certain types of disorders and clusters of symptoms and what not to other professionals it also assists in treatment planning. There is no one size fits all. I went through a lot of schooling to get where I am and even I am not throwing labels around a forum because that would be irresponsible and unethical. People may show traits from their interactions on the blog but you under no circumstances have enough information to jump to any conclusions and proclaim some people are narcissists.

    1. Twilight says:

      Dr Quinzel

      Point down pretending to point at someone in judgement

      Now you are standing sitting or whatever pointing a finger in judgement at someone, now that is one finger pointed at the person

      How many fingers are pointed back at you?

      When one judges another you are judging yourself by 3.

      My philosophy on judging anyone and I mean anyone.

    2. narc affair says:

      I wanted to add that i think this being a blog centering around narcissism can definitely trigger emotions and negative ones at that. Ive been guilty of thinking certain people here could be narcissists but then i have to remind myself i dont know them. All i can go by is their posts. Also my whole point of being on this blog isnt to label people bc their business for being here is seperate from mine. Ive had certain instances trigger emotions in me and its easier to lash out or say things behind a computer screen so extra control needs to be made to not do so. Its not easy at times so i can understand but once you put it out there you cant retract it.
      I have to say the letters to the narcissists opened my eyes to this bc i learned more about peoples personal struggles. It brought back the fact we all have something in common and thats having experienced narc abuse. One member on here that i didnt particularly like at the beginning posted something about my letter and it opened my eyes to the fact that its so very easy to judge people. I can now see thru my dislike of them and see they too have suffered at the hands of a narcissist.
      Online you only see a small sliver of who a person is.

      1. Jenna says:

        Narc affair,

        Wud u b willing to disclose which letter is urs? I think i did not read it. If u do not wish to reveal it, i will understand, esp since there is a judgemental comment there.

      2. narc affair says:

        Hi jenna…i have no issues bc ive already replied on posts there. Its a letter to a mother.

        1. Jenna says:


  15. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    The amount disgusting, judgmental and hateful words of ‘wounded’ people to other wounded people never fails to amaze me. When I sit here and hear “moral” people preach about how fucking moral they are while they cut other people down because they are so full of hurt and hate inside just makes my stomach turn. Help elevate other people instead of shit on them.

    There is absolutely no excuse for anyone to be name calling and telling people how to think and feel. There are no excuses for abusive behavior on this blog at all. The old me would have been like “oh, just understand ____ is hurt” but NO! There is no fucking excuse for this behavior. The problem here is I understand far too well – I’m not going to let people just abuse me because they are hurt and “I should understand” – there is no excuse for abusive behavior.

    This type of irresponsible and hateful, nasty, and quite frankly STUPID behavior could result in hurting someone who is extremely vulnerable and pushing them in destructive ways.



  16. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    I understand everyone is going through their own struggles but I’m becoming irritated with the amount of nasty and judgmental comments people are making toward others. It is so unnecessary and it quite frankly it’s disgusting and shows a complete lack of character.

  17. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Let me also express the fact that I find it absolutely mind blowing at times how absolutely judgmental people are. People are real quick to judge and not jump…LEAPPPP to conclusions without any evidence to support what they are saying.

  18. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    I completely understand how we are often discussing highly emotional topics but lately things have been getting really out of hand.

    Things are escalating far too quickly lately.

  19. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    I do not perceive Perse to be a narc at all.

    1. Perse Jumped Into The Fire says:

      Thank you, Dr. HQ,
      I will endeavor to resist instigating anymore kerfuffles.

      I was going back over old posts, and I realized the trigger was the N’s Bday.

      Still an atheist.
      Hopefully being one in a less abrasive manner.

      But I sure do miss the Doc!!! XOXOXO!

      I am grateful for the company of such caring, learning and discerning posters.( I would name all y’all, but we’d be here a long time, and I would feel bad if i missed anyone)
      Happy to be educated in the ways of the narcissists, so i never fall for another of these (mainly) charming bastards.
      And still learning about myself.
      And glad for the opinions, advice and experiences of my fellow travelers.

      Happy to be a Tudorite!

      Thanks for inviting us, HG.
      I hope I have been a better behaved guest, lately.


  20. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    General comment:

    Can we all attempt to communicate in ways that are not offensive to others. Let me expand on what I’m saying….

    Basically, there is a difference between stating your opinion on a matter and attacking someone’s character.

    People have been pretty cruel lately. Reality check – we have all been through a lot and we all differ in how cope and how we perceive the world – there is no need to attack anyone’s character.

    It is more than possible to express thoughts and opinions without being hurtful. Can we all try and be a bit more tolerant and like not force our thoughts and opinions on others. We can certainly debate and have intellectual conversations without being so damn mean.

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      Wow just realized I asked questions and put periods lmao…sorry I’m echausted lol…

  21. Jenna says:

    Religion is a topic on which pple hold v strong, personal views. It one believes, that is for her. If one does not believe, that is for her. Pls do so without calling others ‘narcs’. Pls think b4 accusing someone of being a narc. One needs all info of the person’s empathic traits, or lack of, existing underlying churning fury or lack of, mirroring behavior, and a list of other traits.

  22. Twilight says:

    If anyone tells me something in confidence I don’t speak of it, even if I know they are lying.
    Them lying speaks of their character, my not speaking of that which was said to me in confidence speaks of mine.
    I then begin to trust they will do as they believe they must.

    Now I will break this if it involves a child being hurt, I have a very low tolerance when it comes to this.

  23. Witch says:

    My narcs “secret” was that he may have had two experiences whereby he acted on same sex attraction.
    One experience he recalls that he consented but at the same time that he was “taken advantage of” because he claims he was high/drunk at the time.
    I always suspected he was bisexual and that these secrets were probably somewhat true. I’m bi as well so I didn’t care, but I suspected.

    Also man made god in his image, clearly!

  24. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,

    Good grief … there’s always more, I can’t keep up!
    Yes, my little weasel told me all and everything about everybody, all hush hush. Like excited little boys telling tales behind the school shed. Even showed me secret pictures no one had ever seen.
    Then the stories changed bit by bit, every time he relayed them. Cracks, lies, denials aaaaaaand so forth.

    Secrets ….. that’s almost an understatement. I wouldn’t know the half of it!
    He can tell his “secrets” to anyone who can be bothered listening.

    Brilliant as always Mr Tudor

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  25. J says:

    I strongly suspect that some of the secrets I was told were true. In fact, I think my N has not hoovered aggressively or in a malign fashion, nor wholly discarded me partly because I “know where the bodies are buried.” (Not real bodies. Just an expression.) Does that track, HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Entirely feasible.

      1. Tappan Zee says:

        This is bad. My nex told me of a rape room in his fraternity. After he knew I was raped. I also went to the same university, knew him and the frat. I was mortified, horrified and “we” prayed about it together as he “felt the same” angst I expressed in this shared “secret.” As if to pray for the poor depraved souls who did that. He feigned this and I was sick. He even said he chased one man out. It really haunted me. Skip ahead to my court hearing lasy week. A fraternity brother testified HE straddled a woman and beat her. His secret was about himself. I was and am sick.

        1. Jenna says:

          Tappan zee,

          It hurts me to read that u were raped. It is a devastation and violation beyond that which words can express.

          “A fraternity brother testified HE straddled a woman and beat her. His secret was about himself. I was and am sick.”

          Even i am feeling sick reading this. I just want u to know that.

        2. Jenna says:

          if anyone is wondering why i wrote ” i just want u to know that” in my above comment to tappan zee, she will understand. It is btwn her and i.

  26. Antifragile says:

    His “secrets” were so artificial (not logically supposed to be secrets) that I can hardly recall now about what they were.

  27. Desiree,

    I’m going to let you know that I find your proselytizing here to be offensive. It will not bother some, others may agree with you, but I bet most are cringing silently and ignoring your posts.

    You did not come by these opinions in a reasoned manner. If your “religion” slate had been left completely blank till adulthood, there is no way you would believe what you are saying is anything but superstition or fairy tales.

    Further, if you would just sit down and read your religious text through from beginning to end taking it literally, without an outside authority telling you these words have a different magical meaning than what the same words have always meant, the character “God” “Jehovah” “Yahweh” or “Y” or whatever the particular copy you posses calls it, is really a cruel vicious hypocrite.

    He is jealous. He wants all the attention,He demands to be worshiped. Everything you own is his. You better do as he says or you will be punished. Don’t criticize him. Don’t expect him to answer you.You do all the work, he takes all the credit.
    He tells you to act one way while he is entitled to act another. He would kill his own child and twist that act into a proof of love.He asks the same of one of his favorite minions, and at the last split second announces he was just kidding!

    What would you call this person if in a human form.

    I know what I would recognize it as.

    And the worst one I know, pales in comparison to the acts that one has committed. And it brags about it.

    Is it good or evil?

    I think that whole scenario is nothing but a mass delusion. And I don’t see what its relevance is here.

    I will likely get hate for my views, But I just can’t suspend reality long enough to swallow that this is a good thing.
    The best moral system I can come up with is not long and easy to understand without the song and dance.

    Don’t do to anyone what they don’t want done to them..

    1. Restored Heart says:


      Fair enough you have your opinion on what Desiree wrote like we all do here & HG is generous in letting us express it. I read it as Desiree was answering a question HG asked her & yes, I agree with what she wrote & no, no hate from me, you are entitled to your opinion.

      I do find it a little ironic though that the best moral system you could come up with was ‘don’t do to anyone what they don’t want done to them.’ It’s a good system.

      However, it was written thousands of years ago in the Bible.
      Like 6:31 ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’
      Spoken by Christ himself. Just sayin’…

      1. Restored Heart,

        Very well. The bdsm fan nest door would love to meet you, and perform his moral duty the way you prefer.

    2. Blank says:

      Well said Perse, I was going to say reading:
      “He can’t force us. The choice must be genuine”…
      How is it he can’t force us? The ALLmighty would not be able to force us?? I just can’t believe how adult people still can believe all these Bible fairytales.The bible is a book that at some point in time people put together out of different written statements other people made in the past.They left a whole lot out.They even changed some (like Mary being a virgin, because that would make Jesus more ‘holy’). These texts were written at a time when they knew almost nothing about the forces of nature, science and biology. Once you get educated how can you still believe in heaven, hell, god, the devil? We are all about biology. We are forces of nature, atoms, oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, etc.
      Why on earth would a god decide to give one an empathic brain and others an evil one and then keep one accountable for it? How fair is that?
      We were nowhere before we were born, we are nowhere after we die. That’s it, we think a great deal of ourselves but we are nothing.
      But since we are here only because our parents were horny, we might as well make the best of it. If people need God as an imaginairy friend, to make life bearable, I can understand that. But he/she exists only in the mind of the believer. Just like the narc’s love.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Great final paragraph.

      2. Salome says:

        MY parents always told me I’m the fruit of love.
        And I belive them.
        I belive in love.
        Don’t you, Blank?

        P.S.What about God…
        I wait for Windstorm intervention…

      3. Thank you, Blank,

        I know that there are people who do believe, and I don’t have a problem with it. Churches do provide community. This is what actually helps those who turn to faith. To know that others will support and care for them and they will do the same is empowering.
        You don’t need religion to do good things, and I have even volunteered to help at Interfaith charities. Some are astonished to meet an atheist in their midst, but they don’t turn down my help simply because of it.
        Of course, they don’t discuss religion with me, but they also don’t try and convert me.

        I don’t like when someone starts using their religion as a weapon, And they presume that theirs is the one true way. They really can’t know that is true, yet they argue like it is an ironclad fact!

        Although I am an ordained humanist minister, Maybe that makes me a hypocrite?

        “But since we are here only because our parents were horny, we might as well make the best of it. If people need God as an imaginairy friend, to make life bearable, I can understand that. But he/she exists only in the mind of the believer. Just like the narc’s love.”
        Yes This!
        Thank you Blank. You put it so well AND bring this back to the actual subject at hand.

      4. Blank says:

        Yes Salome, I love people, so I believe in love. I think I even believe in unconditional love, that is, I love humanity, I love humans for what they are, because everyone has their own history, their own life story and their unique brain.That doesn’t mean you can share your life with just anybody. Some people will hurt you, not just once, but over and over. You can maybe still love them, but not live with them, because you have to take care of your own needs and safety.
        Salome, when your parents tell you you are the fruit of love, believe them and be happy about that. But wether you are born out of love, hornyness or even rape, every human deserves to be loved from the start.

    3. Salome says:

      I find the words of Desiree very beautiful.

      And this is kind of manipulation:
      “but I bet most are cringing silently and ignoring your post”(Perse)
      My new born logical thinking tells me that this Perse’s statement has no value, it’s just what she imagine.

      I’m surprised…

      1. Salome,
        Yes it is what I imagine. That much is true. What DO those of other faiths think? Is the islamist happy to told they do not have the one true faith? The mormon? How about the rastafarian? The buddhist?
        I’d ask for a show of hands, but this isn’t the place.
        I did show my ire, and it was over the top, But Desiree kept pushing her views. When
        religion is being used as a weapon, it is time to disarm the aggressor.
        Nuff said.

        1. Desiree says:

          Perse, Queen of Hell…I believe you are a Narc as your own chosen name suggests….

          1. J says:

            Hmmm, Desiree, as an observer, my initial read on the situation was QUITE different.

          2. Desiree,
            Thank you for your input

          3. Jenna says:

            Thank you for your input

            Omg lol lol lol! I’m dead!😂🤣😂

  28. Patricia J says:

    He was planting…a Mustard seed.

  29. Natalie says:

    The secret I was told was probably closer toward devaluation than the golden period. In fact I didn’t even want to hear it. He told me that he killed someone. I had a feeling it was for the control factor. I do wonder,though..as he is more than capable. And once I saw through him, his lies and lying were sometimes too sloppy and obvious. Now, he’s threatening the lives of myself and our young children, while he is currently racking up a slew of criminal cases while chasing his cocaine.

    1. Natalie,
      You have my sympathy.
      I know mine has killed, but he didn’t think so.
      They have a completely different view of morality.
      They don’t consider right and wrong, but what they want and what is expedient.
      Have you considered a protection order? With a criminal record on his part, it should be easy.
      The hard part will be in being vigilant. Paper doesn’t protect you, but it does give weight to your urgency when you call on the police for help.It was cruel of him to tell you that secret, but it served him in some way, and it does serve you as it lets you know what he is possibly capable of doing.
      Save anything and everything that could possibly be used as evidence, and get a support network in place for yourself and your children. If you don’t have friends or family, contact domestic violence centers until you find one that will help you
      Also read HGs articles on divorce and dealing with the narcissist in court.
      Would like to know how this goes for you, and let us know if any of us can help.

  30. Desiree says:

    Why are you revealing all the narcs’ secrets? Doesn’t that work against your favor?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Desiree says:

        How is that so?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. I have no loyalty to other narcissists.
          2. I want inaccuracies about us to be corrected.
          3. There will always be empaths who do not understand us or do not apply the understanding they have gained.
          4. I am at the top of my game.

          It is not going to cause me any problems.

          1. Desiree says:

            I understand. Well, I’m certainly aware. My narc is freaking out at my lack of empathy for him. He’s probably wondering what the hell happened? I’m as cold as ice and have nothing for him….Almost like a narc….What a backfire

          2. Desiree says:

            Do you consider yourself evil?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I do what is necessary.

          4. Desiree says:

            Better yet, what do you think evil is personally not just a dictionary definition

          5. HG Tudor says:

            The opposite of good, but who decides what amounts to either is all based on perspective. There is no grand arbiter going to confirm it for you one way or the other. What do you regard as evil?

          6. Desiree says:

            So if someone harms you, and tries to really make you suffer for no good reason, you would not feel that person is evil?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            I would regard them as stupid.

          8. Desiree says:

            You say evil is the opposite of good, but how would you know what evil is if you don’t know what good is….You simply have nothing to compare evil to…..nothing but definitions at best…

          9. HG Tudor says:

            I read. I listen. I observe. I am aware of the labelling applied by others.

          10. Desiree says:

            Exactly, you don’t know what good is…..a definition is just words….just like the definitions of love, sadness, those things you can’t feel….but you’ve been gracious to answer my questions, I’ll anger yours. Evil is the complete disregard for human kind and it’s well being. The delight someone could feel at watching others suffer and actually to enjoy it. Evil is trying to be like God even superior to God. But there is a God, and he is superior. He is also and endless supply of the right kind of fuel. A fuel that is abundant and endless. There is no need for empaths, no need to wonder what love feels like….He is love and an never ending supply….

          11. HG Tudor says:

            So, what was he doing when I was being abused? What has he been doing when I abuse others?

          12. Desiree says:

            He was taking notice. Patterns of behavior helps us discover what a person is really like. God also has a pattern. When Earth was filled with Evil, he sent a Flood. When Sodom and Gomorrah was filled with immorality and Evil, he sent balls of fire; the city was wiped out. When Canaan was sacrificing humans to their Gods, the walls of Jericho crumbled. When the three Hebrew boys were thrown in the infernal, they walked in the fire without getting burned…So many other examples, patterns. However, in order to really eradicate evil, humans have to choose God and his ways, follow his moral codes. He is our guide. He provided a way for us to choose, to lock that redemption through accepting the sacrifice of the blood of his son drawn in place of the punishment that belongs to us for our evils. He can’t force us. The choice must be genuine. In this way, a true eradication..an assurance of no evil repetition. We are in a time of weeding, God is weeding, taking notice, discovering who belongs in his kingdom and who will not. The reward for choosing Him will be eternal life and here on Earth in the meantime, he promises to be with us through any evil we may be facing..but make no mistake. His pattern is as certain as his promises. REVELATION 21:4

          13. Desiree says:

            Necessary? As in, Keep you feeling superior? Keep you feeling powerful? Why is that so important?

          14. HG Tudor says:

            To function as is required.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I’m all about people believing what they want to believe in and what not but try and understand why HG believes what he believes.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        “Look what your god has done to me”

    2. Twilight says:


      I was reading your comments

      What if God and Lucifer are just another illusion?

      For the record I am not an atheist yet I do debate on religion in another forum. I am just curious to your thoughts

  31. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Can you keep a secret?

  32. thepianist20 says:

    18-year old narc plans to attract me; a shy, vunerable narc, plans to steal my identity and mirror my characteristics by dying his hair black.

    Here’s a piece of a conversation between the “kid” and me-

    Narc : “Hey! Let me tell you a secret!”

    Me : “Okayyy…*in a slightly disinterested tone* ”

    Narc : *tells secret*

    Me : “Booooorrriinnng! Heard it already!”

    Narc : *feels sad and embarrassed*

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He’s not getting into Narc Club this week after that piss poor effort.

      1. thepianist20 says:

        He failed miserably to mirror me.

        He blasphemed my favourite video game series! By saying that the 3rd part of the series was the first part.

        I was like “lolol”! 😂😂😂

      2. Antifragile says:

        18 years! Isn’t it too early to be narc already? Formation years… Probably very unexperienced. But already tries his grip to ensnare… omg)))

      3. DebbieWolf says:


      4. thepianist20 says:


        Young narcs practice the art of manipulation right when they are 6 or 7 years old. This is nothing!

        But I don’t blame you, even I was shocked at the manipulations he threw after that! I was damn shocked,, but I’ve broken out of the manipulation thanks to HG Tudor’s book, Decipher.

        I’m over that guy, and this happened early 2017(when I was still 21). He’s now taking lessons on how to hoover me again(jobless fool!). Right now his supplies are other committed Asian girls who aren’t as pretty as me(not boasting, although he has poor taste for a British guy).

        All he was and is, is a broken little child who needs a spotlight.

        For sure, he ain’t stealing mine 😉

    2. DebbieWolf says:


      1. thepianist20 says:

        @DebbieWolf It’s the least I could do 😀

        1. DebbieWolf says:

          Haha…you had me giggling…
          I could almost ‘hear’ your tone of voice and when you said ‘boorrrrriiiinnng’..so funny..haha..

          …then HG’s dry sense of humour topped it off by calling narchead’s performance “piss poor” ..I really chuckled.
          Funny. 100 likes.😊

          1. thepianist20 says:


            Yeah, the psycho narc was hilarious! 😂

            HG’s statement was epic! 👌
            Even HG knows that it’s “narc blasphemy”, when a huge effort is not executed properly.

          2. thepianist20 says:

            Thank you for the 100 likes 🙂

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