Poll : When You Look Back At Your Behaviour During Ensnarement With A Narcissist What Do You Think?



Many of you have escaped from an ensnarement with our kind, other have been disengaged and are dealing with the aftermath. Many of you will have been ensnared more than once.

It is common to look back on the ensnarement and reflect on it in many ways, mostly in order to try to understand what happened and why.  You also look back and consider your own behaviour and conduct. Sometimes you do not recognise the person you were back then, sometimes you are surprised at your behaviour (be it for good reasons or bad) and sometimes you fully understand why you behaved as you did. You may feel shame at the things you did, from clinging on desperately to lashing out at the narcissist. You perhaps marvelled at the strength you exhibited to get through the maelstrom relatively intact. You may accept you had no chance to escape what was coming and knowing what you know now, this is only reinforced, then again you may acknowledge you saw the warning signs but failed to heed them.

When you look back at your own behaviour during your ensnarement(s) by our kind, how do you regard your own behaviour during that time? You may choose up to four options form the choices before casting your vote and do expand on your thoughts in the comments section.

Thank you for participating.

When you look back at your own behaviour during your ensnarement with a narcissist which comments do you identify with?

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176 thoughts on “Poll : When You Look Back At Your Behaviour During Ensnarement With A Narcissist What Do You Think?

  1. DF says:

    I chose “completely blinded” as the only option. Everything else I did were just inherited errors, so in my eyes they don’t count.

    I could literally see nothing. It was so strange. I went with hunches, followed my feelings to find out, very slowly, what was going on and later what had happened.

    I am not ashamed of myself at all. After my “favorite” narcissist was gone I did things that were even more eccentric as part of the analysis. It was trial and error back then.

    My mental landscape has changed completely since, starting with the discard. What I think about people, sex, society, social life, and even evolution.

    Basically, early in the process, I found out that “narcissism” is more than an academic field scholars write books about that must not be known to the masses. It is real and if you have some command of the English language you can educate yourself via the Internet. Thank you again, HG Tudor.

    One hunch I got was the extremely painful moment of discard. The narcissist told me things that seemed to be in opposition to his stated goal. His stated goal was: “Go away, stay away forever.” The way he conveyed it was by pure provocation so I would be tempted to beg him, plead with him, defend myself, etc. What is called “putting out the fire with gasoline”. Completely inconsistent.

    In that moment I started thinking that he must be insane because of other statements he made, so I did not answer and the exchange stopped.

    After metaphorically banging my head on walls for three days and nights I concluded that he had gotten something out of my pain. So like a dove circling through the air in order to find its loft, I was searching and found, among other things, an explanation for that strange behavior in the concept of “malign hoover”.

  2. Healing Victim says:


  3. Kate says:

    I chose three – I was losing my mind and no wonder; I thought that I was doing the right thing and …

    That I saw the red flags of seduction but chose to ignore them. I am thinking of my ex-husband and how right after we first met, we were set to go out on our first date. I caught a horrible cold, called and asked him if we could reschedule for the following week because I was sick.

    We met because he moved into the apartment three doors down from me. The night of what was supposed to have been our first date, there was a knock on my door. It was him. He brought me tissues, cold medicine and chicken soup .

    The look of distrust towards me when I opened the door told me that something was unkind about this man, but I felt guilty for thinking that way and that is why I ignored it.

  4. Fuhry says:

    I was the crazy bitch looking for the truth. Burned every piece of clothing first time i found out he lied, packed everything he had in his car and ledt it at grocery store second time. I payed with physical abuse after that. Working on me now, but I’ll always search for the truth. I knew it from the start and should have never carried for the person behind the mask.

    1. Julie says:

      Of course you were the crazy one. They are never the problem. I am the same way. I will seek a truth until I find it. Lie to me and its “game on”. I hate being lied to. I have done some pretty batshit crazy stuff to get the truth . They drive you to it and then make sure everyone knows and call you the crazy. Im actually quite ashamed of some of the things I did to find out truths but in a way I am glad I did. When you take a step back and look at what happened its crazy how (knowing what we know now ) we fell right into that trap.

  5. /iroll says:


  6. No Name says:

    For me, I just didn’t see the path I was on. And the sex was great. I knew she had an (insane, crazy, druggy, lying, porn addicted) ex and we talked about that; what I didn’t know was that he wasn’t ever really an ex.

    I did find out later he had no idea that *I* existed in real time either. After me meeting her kids, and family, getting to know them etc etc, eveyone’s head spun when she suddenly up and went back to him. Boom. The quanity of lies that became clear was stunning.

    Part of the thing was what seemed to be deep sincere connection while we were together. But there is no reconciling the words, and so many instances of I Love You, to the actual actions that took place. Just a long slippery slope where the brass ring seemed just within reach at every moment. But that was never her plan. Totally heartless to all, no matter the words exchanged. Insinuated promises, feeling that she’s come through by hanging on just a little bit longer.

    I was definitely kept on a string, stayed in contact for a long time, even after she went to be with him, because of course I wanted the good parts. With some distance I’m doing better… but miss her anyway, the smiles, the talking. Currently silence on both our parts. Not sure what I’ll do when she resurfaces: let her have it, try to negotiate, ignore her. Not sure.

    In her own way she warned me. A la the Frog and the Scorpion, but I went there anyway. The torment of dissassotiating with someone i fell so hard for has ben awful.

  7. Rhonda G says:

    I was 17 when I met the narc and I have forgiven her for not having enough life experience to know what/who I was dealing with.
    It’s not until my early thirties that I can look back and actually say that I was able to see the red flags. I found them but tried to help him as he asked repeatedly for help with his problems.

    I left once and he was astonished how quickly I threw together an apartment. He worked hard to get me back and he did just to lose me forever 4 years later.

    It wasn’t him that I was trying to figure out when I came back, it was me. We were in marriage and individual counseling for the first and only time. I needed to understand what I was doing wrong, not “my fault” but why I went back, why I was staying, and why I wanted to help him so badly.

    Of those three questions I was asking the only one worth working on first was “Why I wanting to help him so badly” That answer quickly gave me the answers to the first two questions. I am a fixer, a doer, a worker bee, I am strong and will bear the weight, I will weather the storm, I will support, I will take the blame, I will problem solve, and I will put myself last on the list of priorities (at times I removed myself from that list all together)

    4 years later I see most of these answers as my strengths. My problem solving is my logical and analytical mind at work trying to solve a problem that wasn’t mine to solve and therefor could not be solved.

    My emotions, my honesty, and my logical and analytical mind are what I lead with. To lead with my emotions and honesty first always feels best. Like a cocktail I need to mix all four together to be who I am with my radar on for every sort of N out there.

  8. rose says:

    I felt that the options that I did not pick, actually revealed a deeper issue. I saw the red flags. I told him to leave me alone. But after 2 years of seduction, vulnerability and ‘kindness’, I thought I was liberating myself from the rigidity of having left a 21 year marriage with another narc, and was ready to ‘have fun’ with narc number 2, as if he would help me get over the 1st one. He turned out to be a mobster, addict, player. It was so intense…nothing could have prepared me. I am still trying to get him out of my head, after nearly 2 years of no contact. In some sick way, the ever presence can, at times feel like comfort.UGH!!!I know, it’s an illusion…one that gives me a sense of relevance and significance, having been ensnared by a much younger man, with a lust for danger.

  9. Brian says:

    I would react badly to the tirades and word salad. Then my angry reaction would make me feel like I’m just as bad and that we are two people in a ‘stormy relationship’

  10. Julie says:

    SuperX… first one may just be stating the fact its no big deal because she herself does the same job. And it really isnt a big deal , overrated. Lol!!
    Second one If I understand your words correct then I feel horrible for her. I understand it as domestic. Unfortunately the amount of domestic violence in law enforcement is pretty high. I am sure it comes from the mindset of being above the law because they are the law. I believe law enforcement is a shinning becon for drawing in narcs. Not all are narc though but there are many!
    I also believe it draws empathy driven people. People who truely want to help others.

    1. SuperXena says:


      “And it really isnt a big deal , overrated” . Agreed!

      “Unfortunately the amount of domestic violence in law enforcement is pretty high.” It seems to be the case according to some statistics ( see K’s post)

      “ also believe it draws empathy driven people. People who truely want to help others.”. Agreed. Probably empathic people with high narcissistic traits deployed when needed.

      Best wishes

      1. Julie says:

        Superx.. yes I see it everyday. Its amazing even at my department how many domestics get swept under the rug as well. You would amazed jow much stuff the public dosent hear about. It would make your blood run cold. My ex narc works with me to this very day. He has gotten his all mighty greater narc nose up the sheriffs ass so far its commimg out the other end. All by fucking then marrying the sheriffs niece within a few months of me escaping his silly butt. Im sure i was triangulated when we were together. That was far too quick to marry someone. But who knows. Nepotism is a big problem too in the occupation. The more ass kissing you do the more chevrons on your arm you get. Its a cesspool of lies, sex,adultry, domestic, substance abuse etc. At the end of the day I just hope I have helped someone who needed it . I hate the hypocrisy.

        1. SuperXena says:


          Thank you for your answer. I find it very interesting to know how it is from someone from the inside. From what you write I suppose that you are working in close collaboration with them but you are not one of them?

          – “yes I see it everyday. Its amazing even at my department how many domestics get swept under the rug as well. You would amazed jow much stuff the public dosent hear about. It would make your blood run cold.”

          Why are they swept under the rug?

          – “ . Im sure i was triangulated when we were together. That was far too quick to marry someone.”
          I am afraid it was so. I agree, too quick to marry someone.
          How do you cope with working at the same place as your ex? It must be very hard.

          – “Nepotism is a big problem too in the occupation. The more ass kissing you do the more chevrons on your arm you get. Its a cesspool of lies, sex,adultry, domestic, substance abuse etc. “

          Do you mean at your actual workplace? If you have worked within another field, do you perceive this is more evident in your present occupation?

          -“At the end of the day I just hope I have helped someone who needed it . “
          I am sure you do help some that need it. You sound like a very empathic person to me.

          -“I hate the hypocrisy”
          I share this feeling with you.

          1. Julie says:

            SuperX.. good afternoon sunshine!

            I suppose alot of the rug sweeping is saving face for the sheriff. Dosent want the department to look bad. Family relations run throughout the dept as well and alot of blind eye looking with that too. Its sickening actually.

            As far as working with the ex narc. We are in diffrent areas so I dont have to physically see him (thank the good lord). He has been administratively ordered not to communicate with me at all unless it is work related. He has sent me a few messages on the computers which were funny as hell because they were word salad about work and they made ZERO sense.. guessing it was a form of hoover because its all he could get by with. I just deleted them and didnt respond at all. He never tried again and its been a few yrs now.

            Yes the nepotism is rife AF at my actual work place. I think it has alot to do with going back to the extended family all working together and all the families connected by marriages. Its a crock of bullshit pretty much.

            I have worked at my job for years and prior I worked as a computer parts purchasing manager. Yes, its worse in this environment for sure. It is like a plague.

            Did I miss anything? : )

          2. SuperXena says:

            Hi Julie,
            Nope, you didn’t miss anything. You have answered my questions very thoroughly thanks.
            “ …guessing it was a form of hoover because its all he could get by with. I just deleted them and didnt respond at all. He never tried again and its been a few yrs now.”
            Amazing that you didn’t answer to his funny e-mails and you deleted them. It was surely intended as a hoover. Shows your strength. Well done!

          3. Julie says:

            I have NOTHING to ever say to him again …nothing. Hes a sorry excuse for a man. Period. I would rather shit in my hands and clap than acknowledge him lol.. nothing more than a fuckboy with a badge and a perpetual boner to be honest. Live & learn . It wasnt always easy tho. I went back several times but never again. I avoid places I think he may be, blocked him on everything and even moved.

          4. SuperXena says:

            I can definitely relate with:

            “…..It wasnt always easy tho. I went back several times but never again. I avoid places I think he may be….”

            It was not easy for me either( we were together 6 years me as IPPS as it’s called here). I went back to him several times as well with several restated Golden Periods) until I found this site that finally pulled me to the other side and I could finally leave him.

            He was also “ batched” ( working within the police force but not a cop).

            The only thing I regret is that I had to give up for two years one of my special interests: motorbikes. I love to ride motorbike. It has been very hard to ride motorbike during the last two years. Avoiding to meet him at the usual places we used to bike to. Too many painful memories specially during the summer when we used to make wonderful tours around Sweden and Europe.That is the only thing I miss…but never again!

            But now I am determined and ready to take that up again!

            Best wishes

          5. SuperXena says:

            P.s. and there are many interesting non-narcissist men to ride with hmmm…and I mean ride motorbike with as well.

          6. NarcAngel says:

            Naughty Superxena

            Hahaha. Someone is feeling better.

          7. Julie says:

            Its true…. I like the way she thinks lmao!

          8. Julie says:

            Vroom vroom! Haha

      2. Hey SuperXena we should ride together. Haha I haven’t done so in a long time after a bad crash. Lost my touch and confidence. If I don’t ride soon again I will sell my motorcycle.

        1. SuperXena says:

          Hello Catherine,
          I am sorry to hear about your accident. I do not know the details but it sounds like it was quite serious if you decided to quit.

          My closest friends do not do it ( they think I am kind of crazy and wild for doing it which may be the case). I sold all my equipment(except my helmet which I am very attached to) . I am in the process of freshing up my motorbike driving license and thinking to lease first ( before buying) a light weight ducati :
          Ducati 848 EVO or
          Ducati Monster 696
          I like italian . Looking around now: Any suggestions?

          Which bike do you have? Sport bike part because I love sport motorbikes and part because just the thought of going against of what he didn’t want me to do makes me feel good: he did not want me to drive either a sport bike or wear leather clothing because I drew too much attention. I know it sounds crazy…

          I cannot say I am experienced biker. It was actually him who introduced me to it being one of his main interests besides gaslighting me ,of course. And I fell for it( motorbikes I mean).

          Of course! we should ride together…thank you for the invitation. That would be lovely!! Which country are you currently in?

        2. SuperXena says:


          One of your comments on another thread caught my attention. I did not follow the thread ( I can’t find it ) so I post it here.
          As I recall you stated that you were not afraid of narcissists since you have been raised within narcissists?

          If you ended up here in this site, isn’t it because you are/were affected ( negatively)in some way by your entanglement ( family, private,work) with them?

          What do you mean with not being afraid?

          – that you are immune to their abuse?
          -that you are not affected negatively by their abuse?
          – that being raised within an abusive environment has made you more resistant /resilient to be abused?
          – that your personal boundaries can be transgressed without you feeling abused?
          – that you have personal boundaries that have been shaped in a particular way as a result of having been raised within an abusive environment being now that your “normal”?

          If you feel like sharing your thoughts it would be interesting to know more about them.

        3. SuperXena says:

          …just adding : and considering that ( and if I understand correctly) all narcissist are by definition abusive.

  11. Susan says:

    I was clinging on to anything regarding him good or bad as I did not want to loose him and I was needy, I also lashed out many times out of pure frustration

  12. monetdiamondsnrubies says:

    I’m currently continuing to deal with it , its increasingly frustrating , & maddening .

    He’s { my narcissist. } like an insane horror movie character
    And he says he knows he’s F~d up. , but that if I truly loved him , Id accept him
    ” as is ” .

    If the truth be told , he doesn’t really think there is anything wrong with himself .

    He seems to take great enjoyment in mind f~~king me .

    Im always there for him when he needs me ~ he’s never there for me , when I need him .
    And if he does assist in anyway., he’ll use the facts against me , & then I never hear the end of it .

    Anyways ………

    1. SuperXena says:

      Hello monet,

      Not wanting to sound harsh, I would ask you a straightforward question( me not requiring an answer from you but mostly to awaken reflection within you):

      Quoting some of your statements:

      “ He’s { my narcissist. } like an insane horror movie character”
      “ He seems to take great enjoyment in mind f~~king me “
      “ Im always there for him when he needs me ~ he’s never there for me , when I need him .”
      “ he’ll use the facts against me , & then I never hear the end of it . “

      If what you write here ( read it at least 3 times before answering to yourself) is such the case and you know it now:

      Why are you still with him?

      Essentially, it is you the only one that has full responsibility of taking care of yourself. How could you do that if you stay with him?

      1. /iroll says:

        Has to do with her own subconscious patterns, maybe she is used to taking care of others without being acknowledged? She is subjectively identifying with a position and some of us learn to do that while giving ourselves value in a different way. It’s an adaptation that is hard to break.

        I saw a (suspected) Narc mother at a fancy grocery store the other day, she was well dressed and looked annoyed and ‘put-upon’. Her young daughter fell out of the shopping cart, the cart wasn’t designed to hold children and the fall was quite nasty. All attention went to them, the girl just picked herself up and told everyone that it was ‘Ok’. Mother carried on looking annoyed.

        So perhaps she learned that her feelings aren’t important – and that is a learned ‘responsibility’. It was sad to watch.

        It’s not like these relationships exist in a vaccuum, how we act in relationships is part of a whole life. The story that the narc is an abnormality in otherwise morally standard lives, is naive.

        1. Julie says:

          Iroll.. wow that’s horrible! That just tore at my heart about the child falling out and nothing from the mother. I would have freaked out. So sad that she obviously has been conditioned that way. Just breaks my heart : (
          I hate ANYTHING bad when it comes to children. Probley because of my own childhood it effects me.

        2. SuperXena says:

          Hello iroll,
          Thank you for your comment.I find it very constructive. I totally agree with you.
          That is exactly what is underlying in issue of abuse.
          Both the narcissist and the “victim”are a byproduct of genetic traits and learned behaviours through lifetime. I totally agree with you .
          No one is saying that something is good, or bad, normal or abnormal. It is just the way is as a result of a life time. But who is to say that these patterns are unbreakable?
          No one is saying that it is an easy task. But once you detect them, don’t you think that the responsibility of taking care of yourself as an adult lies within yourself? Try at least to adapt /break the patterns that are self-destructive?

          1. NarcAngel says:

            You are not speaking to me directly but I would answer that yes, an adult now aware does have a responsibility to break self-destructive patterns if they want change. Otherwise, pissing and moaning about abuse without some kind of action, is just accepting the role as victim and wanting to be acknowledged as just that. If one has no plans to change, there would be no need to talk about it. It would just be your accepted normal and no one goes around shouting look how normal I am!

          2. SuperXena says:

            I completely agree with you.
            “Otherwise, pissing and moaning about abuse without some kind of action, is just accepting the role as victim and wanting to be acknowledged as just that. If one has no plans to change, there would be no need to talk about it. It would just be your accepted normal and no one goes around shouting look how normal I am!”
            Yes, ultimately is their choice. As you said if they do not see the need to change and do accept the recurrent patterns of abuse as their normal so just let it be. I just can omit the fact that they will be finally consumed by it? Wouldn’t they? And perhaps that will be their normal as well. If that is the way they want to live their lives because they do not know any other way….well… but as I said before last time I heard there are no refunds.

          3. Omj says:

            NA … I meant to ask you a question for a long time … how long have you been here? Where were you in your Narc story when you joined ?

            I understand if you don’t want to answer – I just find you have a leadership presence on the site – and you obviously are very knowledgeable beside hilarious but I was curious.

            How would you define your evolution since you are here – if I can use this term not in an offensive manner of course.

            Off topic – but I didn’t know where to plug my question to you 🙂

          4. NarcAngel says:

            Hi OMJ
            If memory serves it was Fall 2016 when I jumped onto the blog, Stepnarc (my abuser) died Mar 2015 (I believe in my desire to have him dead longer I prev stated 2014 but my sister corrected me). I have also been involved with narcs along the way. I did not have the label of narcissist but I knew they were evil game players and I engaged with them for the purpose of messing with and wounding them. I was sitting one night thinking about my past and I remember googling things like: I want to speak to an actual narcissist or talk to a real narcissist. Somewhere along the line I got Knowing the Narcissist and it lead me here. The first article made me sit straight up part way through. I read all night and could not believe that all that had happened to me had been so thoroughly explained and my experiences validated by both HG and the commenters. I felt relief and like I was finally home (in my head and my heart). I have never stopped reading. And learning. There is only one leader here, and I have no more knowledge than anyone else ( but I do focus on the children in these relationships because that is how I was most affected-by my mothers ensnarement), and keep throwing stuff out there in case it resonates with anyone like the comments and stories of the people here on the blog that night (Indy, Love, Clarece, AhOh, Snow White, and many many others) did for me. Im blunt and direct and dont do cuddles, (there are others who excel at that and together we make a village) but I also know the power of humor and how it can break the darkness. I so appreciate HGs excellent use of it and try to offer that also when I can. I am 56 yrs old now and can say that I am less restless and have more peace now than my previous 54 yrs and that is due to what HG has created here. I stay because of the brilliant writing, the wonderful and diverse people commenting (even when we dont agree) and the chance to witness others find their strength and their peace. HG says he has a creature inside. I have a 5 yr old. We both believe they need to be fed and thats why we are here. Sometimes I think maybe the key is to ask ourselves: What is it that I need to feed or nourish in myself that caused me to look for it in someone else and end up here. Just me?

            Haha. Sorry you asked OMJ?

          5. Omj says:

            I really appreciate you taking the time to write your story and how you came to step into this work and this world.

            I am sure with time and distance we grow this peace as I can feel the seeds pushing out of me since my LT is taking more air time and with all the sessions with HG.

            I am early in all my recoveries and I am sticking around, learning, reading and putting into actions the knowledge.

            Thank you again for sharing your story – crazy how googling leads us to sanity land, I was googling lies, manipulation , got onto Meredith’s material , spent some time there , learned a lot and then to other ones I could not stand because of so much hatred and amateurisme than came to HG by Ross Rosenberg who was talking about his fuel matrix in an video.

            Since then, I have discovered a community, a virtual familly because you can’t explain what is happening and what has happen to people around you unless it happened to them.

            Great story your story and I always enjoy reading your replies and acid humour :)))

          6. SuperXena says:

            I am home today from work with a flue so I take the opportunity of exchanging thoughts with you which I find very giving and interesting.

            Of what you wrote and of what I have observed here , I think we are identifying some groups :

            The ones that have recurrent abusive relationships (with determinant genetic factors and/or raised within abusive environment):

            a) those within this group that are actually not in this site because they are not aware and their normal learned in childhood is their normal. They are not looking for answers.

            b) those within this group that are searching for answers when they realise that something is not “right” with their “normal “ otherwise they would not have ended up in this site looking for answers.

            c )Those who reach awareness ( through this site) but they do not want to make changes because they actually want ( choose voluntarily) to keep their labels as victims.

            d) Those who reach awareness and are trying to make changes but are deeply rooted.

          7. Omj says:

            SX … you forgot those who have succeeded and are Narc free and help the other sisters and brothers and give them hope just by their virtual presence

          8. SuperXena says:

            Hello Omj,

            Thank you adding this group.It is an important one that should not be omitted specially if it serves as a helpful drive motor that pulls those who need it through to succeed in moving on.

            The list is far from complete and it comes merely from my own observations and from my standpoint.

            I like the way you describe it as a sisterhood/brotherhood . It is certainly so!

          9. windstorm says:

            I agree that once we see the patterns and recognize the abuse and dysfunction we can begin learning how to change. And it is very hard.

            What I’ve seen a lot, though, is people who never see and recognize the disfunction. They know there are things wrong with their lives, but never recognize the underlying reasons. Like a midrange narcissist, they think they are doing what they need to do, but are never truly satisfied. Yet, they keep trying the same things that don’t really work over and over, thinking that they will work “this time.”

            Understanding how childhood abuse affected you and continues to affect you is very difficult and complicated. Some things are obvious, and can be seen and corrected, but others are like a hidden poison – unrecognized and difficult to identify. We may never even realize they are sabotaging our lives.

          10. Julie says:

            “ Understanding how childhood abuse affected you and continues to affect you is very difficult and complicated. Some things are obvious, and can be seen and corrected, but others are like a hidden poison – unrecognized and difficult to identify. We may never even realize they are sabotaging our lives.”

            Windstorm… this struck me so true. I know what happened but I choose to block it out and not deal with my shitty narc infested childhood. Im sure thats probley not the best thing to do but its how i deal with jt. I believe it affects my life as well in daily life .i am aware of it so maybe thats a good step forward . If that mskes sense. Im horrible woth wording things at times ugh

          11. windstorm says:

            I understand you. I know in my own case there were all kinds of things I thought were normal that were actually abuse. I was taught (and my husband later agreed with my parents) that there was no such thing as emotional abuse – only sexual and physical abuse. Therefore I was
            just being overly sensitive when I thought gaslighting, projecting and other assorted mindfuckery was abusive. After all, they were just “having fun.”

            I grew up accepting all kinds of soul-warping treatment because everyone around me agreed it was normal. I still am occasionally surprised to learn that some common behavior that people around me just accept is considered abusive by the general population. It’s very hard to try to overcome and fix the effects of treatment/expectations that we believe are normal.

          12. Julie says:

            Thank you for your response. I was also told I was being over sensitive when my mother went on her little narcy attacks. The last straw was when she “accidentally” sent my narc sister a text talking about me behind my back thinking she was sending the text to my sister, i got the text. It was hurtful and disrespectful and just plain cruel. I made my mind up that day to go NC. Havent spoken to her for about 6 yrs or so. I told her when she can apologize then I will speak to her. That will never happen either. I always felt she hated me for being so close to dad and I think she pumsihed me for it. I am a bitter soul to her and the ex narchole. I make no excuses for it and I am fine with it. Maybe its strange but it is what it is.
            I wouldnt piss on either of them if they were on fire.
            Bitter, table for one please.

          13. SuperXena says:

            I understand what you mean. One of the things I am learning with this site ( among other things) is to try not to be judgemental. I have realised that there is so much underlying in each person’s life that we do not know.

            I am just concern about how many people ( i.ex. my customers) I meet through my profession that come with CPTSD to find a way back to be functional again . Through training , a healthy diet and a healthier life style. And the number is increasing. People that can’t continue working or are isolated because they are completely burned out. They turn to be unproductive in life .

            I am not saying that all the cases have to do with abuse but from the conversations I have had with my customers 3 out of 5 have become workaholics as their defence mechanism of childhood abuse ( or other abusive relationship). The symptoms may come long afterwards as a consequence of their self-destructive , self consuming ( working until they drop) coping strategy adopted through life. Other coping mechanisms are eating disorders. I have many , many customers that use food as a coping strategy :either overeating disorder, bulimia or anorexia. Sadly , youngsters are over represented among the latter .

            These are just a few examples of the many coping mechanisms adopted.

            Yes, some patterns are deeply rooted and sometimes are very hard to detect. What is alarming( as I can experience through my profession) is that regardless if someone is aware or not: the fact is that an abusive relationship is always eroding and consuming.

          14. windstorm says:

            Whew! I don’t remember your profession, but sounds like I’d fit right in with your clients! I’m definitely self-destructive, isolate myself and use food as a coping strategy. I’ve never really studied CPTSD, but maybe I should.

            Hope you get over your flu quickly and are already feeling better!

          15. SuperXena says:

            Ha,ha Windstorm. You are most welcome to be one of my customers. It would be a pleasure to help you! Thank you for your kind wishes about my flue. Tomorrow hopefully I will back to work fit for fight!

          16. SuperXena says:

            * typo : I meant of course flu not flue. Ha,ha

        3. SuperXena says:

          * typo: “ That is exactly what is underlying regarding the issue of abuse”

        4. SuperXena says:

          Just to clarify my reflection: do you think that a person that was raised within an abusive environment( that he did not choose as a child ) is to be doomed to a lifetime of abusive relationships until she/he is consumed? Where does the responsibility of avoiding that resides with as an adult?

      2. /iroll says:

        ‘pull-up your bootstraps’ autonomous ideology, got us: repression.

        those who are tough on the outside are often very weak on the inside.

        1. SuperXena says:

          My comment certainly hit a very sensitive nerve in you.

          You have the right to express your POV as much as I have the right to express myself.

          “How long have people been reading this blog? Oh boy”
          Long enough to read between the lines from your aggressive tone. It speaks of itself.

          “ those who are tough on the outside are often very weak on the inside.”
          Says who ? and who is tough on the outside?
          You have no idea of who I am, you do not know me.So how could you possibly know how I am?

          Gather facts before you jump into conclusions turning it into personal attacks showing that you are driven entirely by your emotions.
          Your arguments loose force based merely on assumptions.

      3. /iroll says:

        Now you’re an Adult you Should take responsibility and Just Get Over It

        Way to miss the point

        How long have people been reading this blog? Oh boy

        1. NarcAngel says:

          No one has missed the point. It just differs from yours.

      4. /iroll says:

        Xena, sorry i wasn’t addressing you. We can’t reply to individual comments, so i just type ‘into the room’.

      5. /iroll says:

        The key red flags in this are:

        “You Should”
        “Get Over It”

        Hierarchical thinking

        Saying any version of: “This is my complex story and inner feelings, but i Know how others should Just Get Over It”.

        ^ ^ that’s an observation, i’m not falling apart with emotional hysterics.

        I’m also not talking to anyone in particular, i’m pointing out these discourses because i do not think they are helpful.

        Personally, i’d rather hear about people’s actual situations, no matter how taboo or not fitting into clean ‘recovery scripts’ – than hear people’s projected opinions on repeat – about how Others should take responsibility as adults already. That kind of ‘discourse’ is deterring.

        I understand we all come from different life experiences and generations, and hence have our individual perspectives – and thanks to anyone who shares personal details that provides context for where they’re coming from: and Do feel free to share your success stories.

        I think though, that if someone feels secure in their situation, they’re not going to tell others who are struggling to just suck it up or it’s their fault. Abusers in someone’s life can be symptomatic of many things we don’t know about.

        Opinions are like, not about claiming complete knowledge, is all.

        1. SuperXena says:

          iroll, this one is specifically for you:

          1. It is your interpretation of what has been stated. Valid as your POV but not necessarily valid for others.
          2. “The key red flags in this are:
          “You Should”
          “Get Over It”
          “I think though, that if someone feels secure in their situation, they’re not going to tell others who are struggling to just suck it up or it’s their fault. “

          Nowhere in what is stated have been used the words or phrases:
          “you should” or “get over it”, just suck it up or it’s their fault. “

          Once again is your interpretation of the presented statements .

          The concepts were displayed as a question for inner reflection. The reader is free to take it as invitation for inner reflection or not. Either you are evoked by it or not. Clearly you were not.

          3. “Hierarchical thinking
          Saying any version of: “This is my complex story and inner feelings, but i Know how others should Just Get Over It”.

          Where exactly is the hierarchy thinking ? Saying that ultimately the responsibility of taking care of yourself as an adult resides in yourself because no one else is going to do it for you?Expecting others to do it for you by stating the contrary is an alarming sign of dependency.

          4. “Personally, i’d rather hear about people’s actual situations, no matter how taboo or not fitting into clean ‘recovery scripts’ “than hear people’s projected opinions on repeat “

          If you have paid attention , people’s actual situations have been displayed and shared here numerous times before on the blog and then you would understand that what is stated here does not come from the nothingness but from a long process of recovery that has been shared here in many different ways.
          Stating that they are people’ s projected opinions is based merely on your assumptions not on facts.

          5. “That kind of ‘discourse’ is deterring. “

          Once again that is your perception and interpretation. It may be deterring for you having that impact on you but that does not mean that is deterrent for others. If you do not find it helpful ,fine. Just skip the comments.

          Thank you for sharing your points of view and with this I rest my case.

      6. /iroll says:

        @Xena, it really is written above

  13. snarkandgrace says:

    I felt like I was losing my mind and no wonder
    The gaslighting was a nightmare. The script-flipping was insane. Purposeful sleep deprivation while I literally begged to go to sleep for just a couple of hours was crippling. Reality was definitely blurry!

    I was completely blinded to what he/she was
    My situation is weird…. this was our third attempt to make it work. About 20 years ago, the volatile relationship with him, combined with what was going on in my life at the time, led me to therapy where we determined he likely had narcissistic tendencies and, given my nature, I needed to stay away from him. Didn’t stop me from trying again with him 10 years later…. Then, fast-forward to 2014 and he was back (shelf IPSS much?) The intensity of the love bomb was off the scale this time, but I confronted him VERY EARLY with the “knowledge” that he is a narcissist and I am an empath and our combo is toxic. His response… “Well if we know it up front, we can work our way through it. We will get help and you can just call me on my bullshit when I get out of line….” So I chose the option that I was completely blinded not because I didn’t know he was a narcissist from the get-go this time, but because I didn’t have a true understanding of what that really meant. I thought it was “fixable.” Now I know it isn’t …. sadly.

    At the time I thought I was doing the right thing.
    For as long as this has been going on, I actually thought I would be the one to make him happy. So sticking with him and trying to work though everything felt like the right thing to do. We had a plan to overcome all the crap…. now I’m thinking I needed to pick the “how was I so stupid” option…. so damn gullible…..

    I tried my very best to make it work
    He would say the exact opposite… that I didn’t try at all… but I tried my best. Not good enough…. thanks for playing, though….

  14. Julie Petkovska says:

    I chose one, I can’t believe I stayed with someone so beneath me
    that statement says it all : )

    1. NNH says:

      I am more upset about the way it impacted other people. My father loved him like a son. They had an entirely separate relationship. When everything imploded, my dad was livid. He believed me immediately. It broke his heart. He never would’ve known him if it hadn’t been for me. He was taken advantage of financially, emotionally, etc. I have forgiven my ex. I am still working on forgiving myself for that.

  15. Iwasj says:

    What a great question HG. I suppose most of all I see myself as Charlie Brown back then, believing each time that Lucy was going to hold that football… and each time landing flat on my back. (Or insert fable of the frog and the scorpion here). Looking back I’m amazed at the knots I twisted myself into to try to get us “back on track.” I became a weak, needy version of myself who stayed up late googling the crazy crap he would say and do. I rationalized his actions and gave in to his pleas for “another chance”. I believed he could change. Even so I knew something was off about his behavior and kept a long list of his actions in hopes of getting some clarity. I’ve since been able to label each one of those entries… projection, future faking, blame shifting, etc. I feel bad for the “me” that didn’t know what she was up against. But proud of the “me” that walked away once she figured it out.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      I like your Lucy/Charlie Brown analogy. You should be proud of yourself-Im a complete stranger and Im proud of you.

  16. Sara Jessica Snarker says:

    “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!” {{{Pacino, during one of his worst histrionic episodes in GFIII}}}

    Ok, so I ordered Mr. Tudor’s Red Flag book today and the more I get into it, the more bummed out I’m feeling. Oh, it has made me laugh more than a few times over some of the outlandish B movie lines from the typical Narc (and was mine ever typical!), but I am starting to feel that old familiar oppressive sensation in my stomach as memories darken the corners of my mind. The book is just dredging up experiences that I was on the road to forgetting. Although my wiser and jaundiced eye can usually handle looking back on the the almost cartoonish situation I found myself in, right now I feel as if I still have NEEDY written across my forehead, as the Narc wickedly rubs his hands together and whispers, “Excellent…Excellent…”

    (No offense, Mr. Tudor…it’s a very good book.)

    Remembering how a definitive NARC PIG once humiliated me (even though I NEVER let him know how demeaned I felt) seems to discourage my healing process.
    I have to go cold turkey on all of this for a while.

  17. Jess says:

    Ashamed mostly bc of all of the times intuition was screaming at me and I completely ignored it. I knew something wasn’t right but…..I talked myself out of it by projecting my loving traits on to them. They seemed nice only bc I was being mirrored. It is empowering on the other end to learn that we fell in love with our own self. We were the prize and they knew it… No wonder they hate us.

  18. Ting says:

    I was with mine for 30 years. I look back on my life now, 1 year since the divorce was final, and I realize that I had become a shell of my former self. I was so very unhappy, but still, I stayed. He whittled me down bit by bit over the years. My kids left when they turned 18. They knew what he was and had told me many times. I wish I had taken the time to research the word narcissist. It definitely angers me to see what I became. When I filed for divorce, the side of him, the truly vicious side, that I had yet to see, came forward. He wanted me to be penniless and destitute. Thank goodness I had a really good job and able to make it on my own. I think he thought I needed him because he had a higher paying job than me. I never did, and I knew that down deep, but it was still hard to make that break. I made excuses for him and his behavior our whole marriage. I am more angry at myself, I think, because I feel like I wasted the best years of my life on a piece of s**t and I let him make my children’s lives miserable when they were young. He is a covert narcissist so everybody outside of my family and a couple of very close friends, think he is a wonderful man. That is a hard thing to swallow too, but I know the truth, and hope some day his mask will fall and others will see it as well. I am amazed at my strength as I got through the divorce from hell, kept my home (which totally pissed him off, so bonus for me), still have a great relationship with my children, grandchildren, and family, several “true” friends, and a though I am almost 60, I can walk through my house for the first time in 30 years without walking on eggshells. It is my home and I do what I want, when I want, and how I want to do it. Freedom is a grand thing.

    1. windstorm says:


      We have some things in common, but I believe I had it easier than you did. I didn’t leave my narc husband for over 30 years and I am 60. I had my first taste of freedom ever from birth when I left all my narcs and moved away 13 years ago. But my husband was a greater cerebral and it fit his machinations to appear benevolent. He didn’t fight me at all (at least in public) over the divorce, house or farm.

      Yes, freedom is a grand thing! I still remember how amazing it felt to be able to make my own choices in everything! Embrace your freedom and move forward!!

    2. NarcAngel says:

      30 years. Proof that its never too late to realize your strength and move on to a better life, refusing to give them any more of yours. Congratulations.

      1. Jess says:


  19. 12345 says:

    1. I was completely blinded
    2. I didn’t stand a chance

    I look at these things so differently now. I’m surprised but not surprised at where I am today.

    -I didn’t try my best because I was looking for someone to save me.
    -I’m not amazed at my strength, it was always there I just didn’t use it.
    -I saw many many red flags of abuse but thought narcissists/sociopaths were only like Hannibal Lecter.
    -I can believe how desperately I behaved, I was groomed for desperation as a child.
    -I did not think I was doing the right thing, I knew it was wrong to be involved with a married man. I did it anyway because I wanted what I wanted.
    -It angers me to see what I became. No, everything that happened led me here.
    -I feel ashamed of some of the things I did. Not really. That’s desperation.
    -I can’t believe I stayed with someone so beneath me. I can believe it. I’m here now and that’s what matters.
    -I can’t believe I was seduced so easily. I can believe it. I was looking to correct relationships with my mother and father and they are both narcissists. The narc was the same two parents but with different skin.
    -I’m not proud of what I became. I’m no longer that person and I’m no longer ashamed. I’m very strong now.
    -I realized it was wrong but had no other option. I knew I had options but, again, I wanted what I wanted when I wanted it and fully believed I could get it.
    -As soon as I realized it was wrong I got out. This is funny.

    I’m at peace with what I’ve done. It taught me boundaries with every toxic person in my life and that’s a gift few receive. I had a part in all that I went through and I’ve fully acknowledged that and learned from it. My part does not in any way absolve the narcs in my life of what they did but it definitely helped me see that more was going on than just me being a victim. This was not an assault/rape while I was minding my own business walking in the park. I participated.

    Thank you again, HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

    2. Jess says:

      <3 the honesty here

    3. Clarece says:

      You have made amazing progress 12345! You should feel very proud!!

      1. 12345 says:

        That is a high compliment from you Clarece! You’re a long timer here 🙂 Thank you!!!!

        1. Clarece says:

          You’re welcome! I’ve witnessed the marked change in your comments over time, so you should feel good!

  20. C* says:

    What difference does it make, anyway? We were all duped…

  21. WiserNow says:

    My top choice is: “I was completely blinded to what he/she was.” This was followed by “I felt like I was losing my mind and no wonder”.

    Looking back, I didn’t know about narcissism and what it actually meant. I had no idea that there were so many in everyday life. Back then, when I was at work, or in social situations, I was aware of either liking or not liking people and I thought these feelings were based on instinct and whether their behaviour made me feel positive or not. I never really delved into the psychology behind these instincts. If I had ongoing difficulties with someone, I put it down to a “personality clash” in most cases.

    Also, I’d never heard narcissism discussed in daily conversations, or written about in widespread media, or spoken about on TV. Sociopathic people were confined to being villains in the movies or serial killers in documentaries. It never occurred to me that I could be living under the same roof with one.

    I think narcissistic behaviour should be taught at school from a young age. It would help if it was as well-known and publicly discussed as say, autism or Aspergers syndrome etc. It’s surprising to me that it’s so harmful yet awareness about it is still relatively low.

  22. Flickatina says:

    I realise I picked all the ones that basically say I can’t believe I was so stupid……

    I am still genuinely astonished that I got suckered in. And angry – very angry at myself for allowing it to happen.

    Once I was alerted to the situation, I did not doubt I would have the strength to get through it – I didn’t see any red flags because it never occurred to me I would be targeted by a narc…….

    It’s the last half hour at what has proved an extremely trying day at work and I am bored.

    Although had fun yesterday going for a gynae appt and the doc was the image of Simon Pegg. That was an interesting experience.

    IS it 5 o’clock yet?

  23. Patricia J says:

    Here is what I would list.
    1. What the Hell was I Thinking?
    2. Why did I not get in the line of Women who were waiting to smack his face.

  24. Mary says:

    My four selections were:

    I felt like I was losing my mind and no wonder – This applies to both my online narc and the relationship with my husband.
    I saw the saw red flags of narcissistic seduction but ignored them – Definitely applies to the online narc.
    I cannot believe how desperately I behaved – Yes, I behaved desperately and degraded myself for the online narc.
    It angers me to see what I became – This applies to both my marriage and the online narc.

  25. narc affair says:

    Great poll and i do from time to time go back in my mind to when we first met. Its been 7 years now and to be honest i cant remember very clearly all of it. Its faded.
    One thing is for certain…i had no clue what a narcissist was none at all. I have my narc to thank for finding out bc his behaviour was bizarre online. Offline he was normal but online he pretended to be someone else and i could not believe the depth of deception that entailed. He became this new character and even had me convinced but intuitively i knew. I knew from the beginning the first time he did this online that he had me duped. I guess you could say i ignored the signs but gaslighting is a very powerful force and combine that with addiction and you want to believe its not true or you deny it so it goes away but it doesnt.
    Im embarressed looking back and even now to see what ive become. My reliance. Like a druggie needing their drug of choice. Ive allowed myself to be absorbed into his world and entwined. I can see now also thanks to my narc how damaged my marriage was and yet i stayed. Maybe i shouldve left but again embarressment over not feeling i could and sweeping the problems under the matt.
    There were times earlier on in the narc relationship i felt i was losing my mind until i learned about narcissism and i took myself out of certain situations to protect myself. Am i out of the woods…no not at all but im at least armed with the knowledge of what im up against and learning more about myself. Learning how i fit into the equation and why im so afraid of letting go. Its been a journey of learning and ive learned that when you go against the current in life it sweeps you away downstream and i did just that. I knew it was wrong yet i persisted against it. I think i was meant to learn the lessons from it. Now i know about my mother and also about myself. Im grateful for the lessons as painful as theyve been and i embrace the lessons to come. My soul and who i am is constantly evolving.

  26. Lilly says:

    Very interesting poll HG. I guess this is the million dollar question, one which I have asked myself many times. Sometimes I truly believe that I had temporary lost my mind to get involved with the narc.

    At first it was just fun for me, little bit adventure, very innocent in my eyes. We also met in a unconventional manner that seemed like fate (BS I know), no social media was involved.
    He SEEMD different, very intelligent, funny, talented, bold, caring and so many other things which I never found in one person only. Of course now I know why, but at that time my interest was peaked. What he really did well is get out of me who I really am and acknowledge me in a certain way. Why I needed this approval is subject for another time (probably childhood experience), but this feeling of someone seemingly to understand you like no one else can is so addictive that it becomes the centre of your world and you start to ignore the red flags and everything else. Sometimes I literally had an inner dialogue about those red flags. How he behaved, that he was different but also strange, sometimes almost childlike naive and many many other things. But I also soon started to feel uncomfortable about him exaggerating my accomplishments (yes I have a good career, but others do too), me speaking 5 languages something out of this world (I know people who speak even more), exaggerating my looks (I look good, but I know I am not a supermodel) and so on.
    Add the manipulations, lies, actions not matching the words, it became so very draining that I knew something was off and I needed to get out. I finally escaped by exploding on him like a volcano (2 previous attempts failed) after learning about narcissism and with consulting with HG. I can not fully blame the narc for everything as I chased my own need, but the difference is I was/am real and he is not.

  27. Flickatina says:

    I can’t believe I stayed with someone so beneath me (4%, 39 Votes)

    I am surprised to see the low votes for this – they are narcs – they are and always will be beneath us…..

    1. Sara Jessica Snarker says:

      Like voting if the sky is blue or not.

  28. Destroyed says:

    I can’t help but look back at all the signs, at all the clear moments where any rational, self-respecting person would have walked away, and feel…its hard to put into words. How do you describe all the sadness and anger, combined with the self-blame, and the horror of being accused of everything she is and has done, people I care about believing it, AND the hopelessness of realizing that you make yourself look worse when you try to defend? I’m trapped in a living nightmare. I will get away from her, but what will be left?

    I’m a romantic and the love bomb thing totally sucked me in to thinking I had met my soulmate. I was blind. I was stupid. She was a young single mother still living with her parents and desperate to get away. I was the vehicle. Then it was even harder to get out, because not only was I blindly in love with her, but i loved her daughter as well, my step-daughter. I look back on the signs and the things I tolerated, and it makes me sick with shame. Is shame the right word for feeling like you were stupid and pathetic? I was the type of of person who never wanted to be divorced. I thought that people gave up too easy and if you hung on through the tough years, it would pay off in the later years. And so I swallowed and bent, always being made to feel that things would be better if I worked a little harder…on being a better person, on providing more. I even made excuses for her behavior. It really all comes down to the fact I had NO IDEA what I was really dealing with. For over 25 years I just couldn’t make sense out of her behavior. I couldn’t connect the dots, because no one wants to believe that their SO doesn’t really love them and really only cares about themselves. That love bomb sets your expectations and you’re too busy chasing that dream to see you’re being used. I’m not stupid. If at any point I became aware of the Narcissist disorder and it’s implications, I would have connected those dots and bailed out. Instead I stayed, making excuses and telling myself I was staying for the right reasons…for the kids, especially. That may have been my biggest mistake. My kids are an emotional mess, either displaying signs of N, to my disgust, or the signs of low self esteem that will set them up for being a Narc target for the rest of their lives…to my equal disgust.
    Now I’m pushing 50, I’m going through an absolutely vicious divorce, and my life is DESTROYED. My kids are a mess. I’m a mess. I feel like my soul has been sucked dry and I’m a hollowed out shell of the person I used to be. In desperation I turned to someone else when I was at my lowest. Biggest mistake of my life, not only for betraying my own morals, but because it gave her the equivalent of a nuclear bomb in her arsenal. Suddenly, all of my good behavior and hard work through the years, and all of her bad behavior and deeds, were forgotten. I was the piece of S#*t she had always said I was. The power of all those years of trashing me behind my back to her family and even my own kids is showing its effects. I’m the villain. The step-daughter I sacrificed for and loved as my own, isn’t speaking to me and I’ve been cut off from my grand-children. My son appears to be a Narc and I’m sickened by how he treats people. My youngest daughter, the Daddy’s girl, is believing her mother’s lies and thinks I’m a monster, not the man she always thought I was. Everything…all my good deeds and intentions, hard work, always trying to be a good man, good husband, good father and the life I was working for…its all destroyed.

    1. Destroyed says:

      CORRECTION: The biggest mistake of my life was marrying her.

    2. Sara Jessica Snarker says:

      Destroyed, your experience is devastating. You may be at your lowest point now, but, little by little, you will find the strength to claw your way back out into the sunlight. You are ONLY 50 and a lot wiser. You have plenty of time to start a new life and leave the old one behind. Meanwhile, just pray for your kids. Narcs always out themselves eventually. The children will come around.

      1. TPT says:

        Thank you SJS. The counselors and friends keep telling me the same about the kids, but in the here and now it is just so hard to take.

    3. WiserNow says:

      I feel for you Destroyed, and I’m very sorry you are living this horrible nightmare. The worst gut-wrenching agony is the knowledge that your closest family, the people you once thought were in your corner like no others could be, have betrayed you and are happy to see you at your lowest. I’m so sorry.

      I would like you to know that it’s not all destroyed. All your good deeds and efforts in being a good man and a good father are not totally lost. What you’ve lived through is a tough lesson, the toughest anyone could learn. However, it has brought you to a point where your eyes are now open and you can see the truth. The truth is on your side. At the moment, it all seems hopeless, but it’s not. It sounds like you have hit rock bottom, and now the good news is that there is nowhere left to go but up. It will get better.

      All of your good qualities that enabled you to be a good father to all your children and to be devoted to your family are all still there. You may feel like a broken shell, but those qualities are just dimmed for a while. They are dimmed from exhaustion and from not being reciprocated. Even this is a blessing in disguise. It’s giving you space and time to stop giving and giving and giving and to take the time to recover, regenerate and to “see” what is actually happening.

      Take the time to turn all of your good qualities onto yourself for a while and care for yourself with the same devotion and generosity that you gave to others. Treat yourself with compassion and as much as possible, ignore what anyone else thinks or wants for a while. Your good qualities will start to shine again with time and you’ll regain your hopefulness.

      As for all the animosity that you are feeling from your children and others who have turned against you, give it time and hopefully those who were truly your friends and your children will recognise your good deeds over the years.

      Please also remember that your children have also been affected by all of what your family has endured and they are probably battling emotional issues that are not easy to navigate. Even though you feel they have turned against you, it could be that they are also undergoing emotional changes and it’s not all straightforward.

      I hope things improve for you and I wish you all the best.

      1. Destroyed says:

        Thank you, WiserNow. All good advice.

        BTW, about the kids being affected…Yes i know. That’s why I have my youngest (15) in counseling. Possibly my biggest regret in all of this is realizing how this is going to be carried on through my children. Windstorm and Julie are talking about this further up the chain… how children raised in this see these behaviors as normal and go their whole lives making mistakes because they just don’t know better. And even if they open their eyes and try to improve, its a hard process just trying to recognize which behaviors are the bad ones (abusive).
        My wife’s family is a Narc-riddled, chaotic, drama-filled mess. My daughter’s counselor told me that my daughter told her that I would probably say that, but that they’re not as bad as I would say. My response to that was, that’s what bothers me the most…to her that’s normal. She just doesn’t know better and that’s really hard for me to face.

        My hope is my youngest will benefit from the counseling and the pattern will be broken for her. My son refuses to go to counseling. And my step-daughter…no chance. Plus, I’m in individual counseling, and my wife and I are seeing another counselor to help us “co-parent” at the behest of my daughter’s counselor when she saw how bad things were between my wife and I. What a joke that is. She sits there and plays her role, agreeing to things, but it means nothing as soon as we walk out.

        Here’s something telling. After some particularly horrible things coming out of my daughter’s counseling, I went to see her privately to give her some background she didn’t have. One of the most frustrating things about counseling is how long it takes for the counselor to get enough of the full picture. Incredible how fast an hour flies by. After talking to her, she suggested that if my wife and I would sign a consent form, the three counselors could share information with each other. I thought that was a very good idea, and signed it. Aside from each of us trying to deal with our own issues, the higher purpose here is to help our relationships as a family, so that seemed to make sense to me. I just found out my wife wouldn’t sign it. When my counselor told me, I said I wasn’t really surprised. Part of how they work is putting up a front and giving different people different information, so that would help close discrepancies, or at least bring attention to them. I asked him what he thought it meant that she didn’t sign. He said, it tells me that a lot of what you’re telling me about her is probably true. I was surprised he gave me such a blunt answer. They usually seem to avoid expressing their own opinions, especially so candidly. One of the things that’s killing me is the stress over people believing her lies and me feeling like there is doubt in everyone I talk to about what I’m telling them. Maybe he knew I needed to hear that.

    4. 12345 says:

      Destroyed, all the shame and thinking you are stupid and pathetic will start to fade away once you get some distance from the wreckage. It is true that if you don’t work on yourself and understand who she really is and why you were subconsciously attracted to her personality type you will slip into inertia. It’s time to really dig in and do this for yourself.

      Right now your soul has been sucked dry and you are a hollowed out shell. She made sure of that. You won’t stay in this place if you do the work to get out. The mental contact was the hardest for me but that was how I continued to give him my power. It takes a long time to work though all of that. The shock that takes time to get out of. The disbelief that we couldn’t see them for what they really were is terrifying. All the memories that suddenly become clear for what they really were make you physically sick.

      Your daughter will see her for who she is one day. Watching her believe her mother’s lies has to unbearable. Having been a good man, father and husband is not for naught and you will not always feel that it has been destroyed.

      Keep reading, posting, get a consult with HG (that helped me tremendously). You will get through this shit storm and be stronger for it. The single biggest motivator I had was my daughter. She witnessed my behavior and very well may repeat it. I’ve got to be strong, mentally healthy and knowledgeable should she come to me for help. I need to be able to articulate the mistakes I made to get involved with a narc and have awareness of what was motivating me to be with someone who truly hated me.
      You’ve got to be ready when your stepdaughter finds out who her mom really is. Oh, and 50 isn’t old. You have plenty of time for a healthy fulfilling life.

      1. Destroyed says:

        Thank you, 12345. And yes about being ready to help kids understand if they come to me for help. I really don’t expect that to ever happen with my step-daugher. I think she’s even worse than my wife. She was caught in a tug of war between my Narc wife and my wife’s Narc mother. I always knew that would screw her up, but I never expected it would be this bad, or that it would ever turn into her and my wife uniting against me. She has made all of this exponentially worse on me, both in her attacks on me on her mother’s behalf and in adding that second voice that confirms my wife’s lies to others (being my wife’s Flying Monkey, as I’ve heard it called). Plus, she has helped poison the other two kids. My relationship with her is very likely over. That hurts and it makes my other two kids sad, but in reality, it’s probably best for me and my sanity in the long run. I know all this drama and heartbreak is going to repeat again with her family, and as I keep saying in exhausted desperation, I am so tired of crazy.

        I “love” hearing about when my SD’s husband jumps on the band-wagon bashing me. I just think to myself, you poor fool. You’ll see someday.

    5. MB says:

      Thank you for sharing such a personal story. There are few men here and the devastation caused by female narcissists is underepresented. This is a place where you are understood, accepted, and supported. Keep coming here, keep reading HGs work. I hope you have done audio consultations with him. If you have not, please do. He can help you so much with the nex, the divorce, your N son, your little girl. All of it.

      My heart hurts for you. My thoughts are with you.

      1. Destroyed says:

        Thank you, MB. Yes, I definitely see how men are under-represented here, because as we all know now, men tend to be the Narcs by far…Yet another thing that weakens my position with people believing me.

        1. MB says:

          I don’t know if there are more male narcissists or if that label is just more readily applied to men as acceptable. As a rule, NPD is under diagnosed and with females even more so. Women are more readily labeled as crazy or emotional. HG is much more knowledgeable regarding the statistical and practical information.

          One thing is for certain though, there are more women here as I think they tend to be more willing to participate in this forum.

          It bears repeating since you mentioned the inefficiency of counseling. Consulting with HG is way more efficient (and less expensive) than therapy and I’ve done both. He gets right to the point with laser precision and accuracy and gives you action steps to follow. Hopefully, you have taken advantage of that valuable resource.

          Thank you for being here and sharing your point of view.

          1. Kathleen says:

            Also… I just think that men are less culturally conditioned to discuss their feelings and shy away from being a victim much much more strongly than women do- so to be on a website discussing their relationships or to be going to a counselor is much less likely For a man than a woman.m- tthus – under reporting. I am a female who was dating a female who is a flaming narcissist. Believe me – they’re out there and there’s a lot of em. You might know them more as bitches or fast and flirty or Control freaks but underneath that they could quite likely just be plain old narcissists.
            I also think men are conditioned early on to think that they can’t or shouldn’t try to understand women – there’s all kinds of social constructs around that. Therefore i think they often just chalk it up to women are just hormonal or nutty-but in fact-we’re not all crazy!

          2. NarcAngel says:

            I agree. Good old stereotypes keeping the root of the problem hidden.

    6. NarcAngel says:

      In time, people come to remember and believe what they saw and not what they heard. If you were all of those things you say, they will remember, and if they do not, they never deserved you anyway. Fill up those who do.

    7. Brian says:

      When you are divorced you will at least not be living with a narcissist which is a blessing.
      I don’t know if you are a spiritual person, but now that everything has been taken away from you, it could be a sign to pursue that.

      1. Destroyed says:

        Brian – Pursue what? Are you insinuating that this happened to me because I’m not “spiritual”?

      2. Brian says:

        No, not at all.

        Sorry for your loss and bad experience with your narcissist.

  29. Ugotit says:

    He remains a mystery to me to this day sometimes I think he’s bipolar or has multiple personality disorder he definitely sees me as his opponent someone he needs to defeat I can see that now it’s like a war that never ends with no winner I think he will always be out searching for the ideal woman that doesn’t exist he’s amazingly stunted emotionly like a small child in a grown mans body like a stranger or alien trying to masquerade as a human but didn’t get the full instruction manual

  30. Ugotit says:

    I put I had No chance because he excelled at portraying himself as a normal person pursuing a healthy loving committed relationship I put I’m amazed at my strength because when the discards and devaluations started I handled it outwardly anyway with dignity and let him go no chasing or begging inside of course at one point I was actively plotting to meet him in an alleyway and stab him to death

  31. Kathleen says:

    I think like many empathetic people I thought my patience and non-reacting would show her I was safe to open up to. Kind of like letting someone punch the shit out of you and not punching back and then thinking they’d exhaust themselves just cry and breakdown and open up and from that point it would be this healing. Never. So that’s my biggest learned a lesson from that entire thing- You can give people a little bit of time to open up and show their empathetic sida and to become vulnerable- But I think it should only be one or two months at the very most… once you’re into an intimate relationship- After that it’s time to cut your losses and move on.
    Thanks for the poll HG.

  32. /iroll says:

    Learned an early abuse pattern where i subconsciously associate autonomy with abandonment and my bonding urges are triggered by ‘control-me’ relational dynamics. Never developed a ‘mature sexuality’ (not that that’s a serious problem – it’s more of a quirk), but certain narc(s)? reflect a psycho-sexual dynamic with me that is full of fantasy escapism. I like that part, but i also need safe empathic bonding and don’t like the Narc’s more perverse and callous sexual styles. But maybe their aloofness is also a safe space for me to seek intimacy without my other fear – of being engulfed? So, i don’t know how to separate the good from the bad.

    So it’s a mixed bag where they give me the intensity and psychological fantasy i need to express my emotions, but they can aggravate my more regressive tendencies – and can’t sustain and evolve intimacy.

    It’s a process of struggle i have with myself, i’ve learned more about the other side – how not to take manipulations personally – how to build better boundaries – ongoing, but i’ve never been really conned because their abnormality was what attracted me. I have been dismayed at their fixed patterns and malice and inability to trust.

    Agree that it is a major energy sink and derailment. They do one big performance at the beginning and you do all the emo-labour for the rest of it, while they dwell in depressed, murky, cynical thinking and unrealistic urges to control you. Damn.

    1. /iroll says:

      *There’s a difference between the kind of catharsis of control-release, and control-discard.

      A HUGE difference and that difference is selfishness.

      1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

        So much of what you write makes lots of sense to me. And that is all I am going to say.

    2. K says:

      I liked this term: emo-labour

    3. Jules says:

      Perfectly explained. I feel the same. ✨

    4. Mary says:


      I too can relate to what you shared. “But maybe their aloofness is also a safe space for me to seek intimacy without my other fear – of being engulfed?” I struggle with this also. I think that’s why I gravitate toward the narc. If my lover is a bit of an insensitive ass, and I know that, then it’s less painful than if I had given 100% of my trust to someone who truly seemed kind. While I had doubts about trusting my online narc fully, I still ended up giving him so much control, which was used by him to hurt. That said, I think a healthy partner for us would be someone we are safe to be open with about our intimacy struggles, someone who would challenge us gently, but NOT take advantage of our weak spots.

      1. /iroll says:

        To be clear: I never relied on Narcy for a committed relationship, he wasn’t that for me, it was a ‘special relationship’ because i knew what it was and formally it was a sex thing.

        He didn’t like those limits on his control, i went bad and the punishments began very early on, but he pulled some grand seductions along the way, gifts and special dates. I’m honestly not sure what he was up to, or if he knows, and even now it’s the strangest long drawn-out crocodile death role of seductive-malign hoovers. So, he really wants revenge; he wants to “collect his wound”. I OWE him, big time.

        But i also thought i could handle him, i wouldn’t choose to be with an efficient rapist of people’s souls.

        Getting hurt doesn’t have to mean you lost your dignity or they have superpowers, i get hurt just because they’re acting in an ugly way. It creates a bleak emotional landscape of alienation. That can be the whole relationship or a day.

        Even having psychic wounds is a creative act in itself, so i don’t have a problem with mine. It’s a way to find the source of the issue / internalised pattern and break through it, but that requires being vulnerable. There is just something about survival that is really inspiring to change a pattern and evolve – hence, intensity is attractive.

        Narc abusers lack interior depth and complexity, so they can’t create wounds – (no stigmata or tears for the hardcore narc)

        What they do instead is collect them by hurting others. They’re wound inflictors and collectors. It’s all motivated by their self-projection, whatever they feel bad about in themselves (big stuff and trivial stuff indiscriminately) – is made better by your pain, which also helps them to keep distance with others. They reject everything including themselves, so they need the projected wounds in order to maintain any kind of self-esteem. We only see the grandiose facade, they barely know what’s going on underneath, except that your hurt makes them feel better.

        The endgame for us is to find self-fulfillment in trusting our inner creative processes. This is freedom and the narc wants to crush that capability in ourselves, because they lack it.

        But… isn’t it also strange that we become so attracted to a crippled being who is jealous of they very thing that we doubt and struggle with, in ourselves? It’s ‘horrifically’ validating. Narcs may even see this as us being repulsive narcissists! (self-projection).

        So survival works in many ways… but it’s the narc’s own fault for making it about us vs them in the first place, because they can’t co-exist and be satisfied with their own originality.

        Maybe we are all just different flavours of snack to them, but if they really had any self-esteem they wouldn’t be having aneurysms just because we have the agency to choose our own flavours of ice-cream.

        1. windstorm says:

          Several things you said really resonated with me.

          “they barely know what’s going on underneath, except that your hurt makes them feel better.”

          This was so true for my mother. Growing up I never understood why she would deliberately hurt me. She sure never wanted anyone to hurt her. I was a grown woman with children of my own when I realized that it made her feel better about herself when she hurt me. I was horrified at this realization because as a mother then myself, I knew that was the opposite of normal. If you love your children, you don’t feel better when you hurt them.

          “The endgame for us is to find self-fulfillment in trusting our inner creative processes. This is freedom and the narc wants to crush that capability in ourselves, because they lack it.”

          They do want to crush and destroy what we have – especially if they know they can not have it themselves. It’s almost like on some level, they know they are defective but if they can keep us down, at least they can feel they are above us. This lets them feel superior.

          Their jealousy and insecurity are what makes them dangerous.

    5. Jess says:


  33. purpleinnature says:

    In the mid-ranger relationship, I remember actually saying OUT LOUD to myself several times “He treats you like crap” and “He’s the most insensitive person I’ve ever known” and “He’s insane” and “You don’t deserve to be treated like this” But it was like I couldn’t hear myself. This went on for a couple years. Such a strange experience. I KNEW he loved and cared about me and that we were going to be together forever, but something in me was trying to show me the truth and I wouldn’t listen. I look back now and lament at the memory of how hopelessly I believed that we could make it work. I never did do anything that I’m ashamed of, except spending time with him that I could’ve been spending with my son, but I did always make an effort to balance that. What a waste, though.

    After marrying and moving in with me, he pressured me HARD to abuse my teenage son, saying that I was a crappy mom that never held my son accountable and I needed to do something about his behavior (my son is polite and has never given me any trouble). He’d scream things like “If I had (insert random minor flaw), my mom would’ve given me a hiding!! But you just let him get away with it! No consequences! No responsibility!!” For some reason, my son is completely immune to the BS of narcissism and he has a natural instinctive ability to provide no fuel. The one time my ex started yelling at him for drinking a can of juice “without asking”, my son remained calm and diffused the situation immediately. I was so proud and amazed when I saw him do that. So my ex steered clear of him and used ME to try to get to him. I’m proud to say I refused, and it resulted in my being subjected to extreme verbal and emotional abuse.

    My moment of clarity was when I finally realized and accepted that he didn’t care about me and that he enjoyed hurting me (after listening to a YouTube video on what it’s like to argue with a narcissist). As soon as that finally got through my head, the spell was instantly broken and it never came back. I mean, I’m still working on exorcising him (my order of the Exorcism book should be arriving today), but I will never again believe that he loves me or that I should be with him.

    1. /iroll says:

      That really doesn’t sound like regular NPD, but a sociopathic predator with an explosive temper.

      1. Could be, that’s interesting. I will read some more about sociopaths. He does seem to fit the pattern of narcissistic personality disorder to a tee. He’s extremely delusional and honestly believes that everything is my fault. His projection and denial fits HG’s description of the Mid Ranger very precisely. His behavior is also what finally helped me find the pattern of NPD in my two previous husbands and in my own Dad. Having helped me finally unlock the puzzle of NPD, I assume he must have NPD. No two narcs are alike. They can be very very different from each other, and yet all the same. 🙂

  34. Laura says:

    I thought he was just a normal person needing support and love to heal. I thought I would be a safe enough place for him to be vulnerable. I thought if I was caring and patient enough, he would realize that he was fortunate to have me. That he would learn to express his feelings.

    Instead, he was hiding. He was more wounded than I realized. Instead he was gaining comfort and control from what he thought were weaknesses. He was my opponent, not my partner, but I didn’t know it. Instead, when my love was demonstrated—he was angry and suspicious. He thought I was trying to manipulate him. I never considered my intentions could be construed in such a warped way. Love does have the power to heal, but we have to be brave enough to let it in.

    My mistake was in accepting a starved emotional state for myself. I believed I could tolerate being in a more “independent” kind of relationship. I didn’t realize that he wouldn’t be satisfied until he had wrung me out thoroughly. He needed to see despair in my eyes to feel ok—he knew then that he wasn’t being manipulated.

    Until I decided that manipulation was the only safe route out—then I took control quietly. My escape took two years to orchestrate. He landed a few major blows on the way out, but I got away with my sanity. I regret nothing. It’s not my fault he’s a monster, or that it took 15 years and a baby to fully draw out that monster, and believe it myself. I bought a new house for us, remodeled it, moved our family, and then filed for divorce.

    I’ll never accept a starved emotional state again. I will always be an empath with a deep desire to connect and heal—but now I’m also a warrior. I look at myself now and think I am an unstoppable force. Thank you to my ex for showing me how big and powerful I really am.

    1. Tappitikarrass says:

      Hear hear Laura! Well said

  35. Salome says:

    “At the time I thought I was doing the right thing” 
    “I’m not proud of what I became”


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Consult with me.

  36. K says:

    1. I did not stand a chance of resisting being seduced
    2. I felt like I was losing my mind and no wonder
    3. As soon as I realised it was wrong, I knew I had to get out
    4. I tried my very best to make it work

    I don’t regret any of my behavior at all, however, I do wish I had gotten out sooner. What an utter waste of time and energy.

    It would be awesome if I could air-drop (no parachutes) my narcs straight into Hawaii’s Kilauea volcano. Poof! Bye Felicia’s!

    1. Julie says:

      It would be awesome if I could air-drop (no parachutes) my narcs straight into Hawaii’s Kilauea volcano. Poof! Bye Felicia’s!

      K…. you forgot a few.. wait for me! I’m going to be “extra” tho, strapped cinder blocks to their feet for maximum effect lol!

      1. K says:

        Ha ha ha…thanks for the laugh, Julie! There is plenty of room for you and your narcs. The cinder block idea is sublime BTW.

        1. Julie says:

          K… your welcome haha
          I have extra blocks if you want some too! It’ll be gifts to Pele! See, They can be useful after all haha.
          All kidding aside, I joke but thats how I cope with the shitty things that happened to me. I think everyone has their own way of coping.

          1. K says:

            There is no shame in visiting Fantasy Island to plan the demise of our narcs. Hopefully, Pele will be pleased with our sacrificial offering and turn them into pumice or obsidian. How many blocks do you have, I have a long list.

            Everyone copes in his or her own way and dark humor is a great way to deal with all the shitty things we were subjected to. It is far better than going on a coke binge.

          2. Julie says:

            K…how many do you need sweetie. If I dont have enough Home Depot has them on sale. I got ‘choo LOL! Pele would indeed be more than pleased with 2 cops and 1 felon. Nom nom nom.
            Never ever ever ever date male cops. I highly think its a profession that they gravitate to. Some women yes,but more so males I think. Rat bastards.

            Yes, I do have a dark sense if humor when it comes to the narcs for sure. Sometimes I feel like a product of my environment as well. Dark humor is something that goes hand in hand with what I do. Good lord its a wonder I have any sanity left after 20yrs on the job and the narcs.

            P.s. coke is so 90’s Im into jello shots LOL!! Love me some jello haha

          3. K says:

            No worries, I wouldn’t date a cop if you paid me. Many cops, firefighters & EMS are narcs or narcissistic. A firefighter was arrested for raping a child last week. Rat bastards!

            I want to sacrifice about 40 narcs to Pele.

            You gotta go with whatever works and you can’t go wrong with dark humor and jello shots! That will restore your sanity in a jiffy.

          4. Julie says:

            K.. 40?!! Well shit, can we fit them all in? Might have to make 2 trips.
            Mmm jello & a nice pinot noir LOL!

          5. K says:

            That’s just my starter list. The numbers may go up. It is a work in progress.

          6. Julie says:

            K.. damn boo boo and I thought 3 (possibly 4) was bad. You my friend deserve a vacation on a beach somewhere in the Turks & Caicos sipping fruity drinks out if a coconut with the little umbrella in it!!!

          7. SuperXena says:

            Agreed. At least the cops that I have dated showed the major red flags. They are needed and very good professionally at what they do ( just exactly because they are narcissist or have high narcissistic traits) but not good at all in having and keeping (healthy ) intimate relationships.

          8. Julie says:

            Truth right there. I can think of probley 10 coworkers right off the bat that are chronic cheating lying useless narcs. I feel bad for their wives and families. There is never a shortage of “badge bunnies” for them.

          9. SuperXena says:

            Now that you mentioned wives:
            I asked two acquaintances that were both married to cops how it was to be married to one.
            1. One of them is a cop herself . When I asked her , she just looked at me like not having any idea of what I was referring to as odd and lifted her shoulders as saying: no big deal. Both were very successful top level security cops. Assuming that both are narcs, the only reason I can think of that working out is being together for the facade and for many other residual benefits they provide to each other to keep them at the top hierarchy level.After all, they follow the same rules of engagement.
            2. A woman who is not a cop. I will never forget her grief and pain in her eyes when she shortly answered:
            You have to have “ Is i magen”( the closest I can come to that idiomatic expression in english is “you must have a strong stomach”) and “ skinn på näsan(=nose)” you must learn to toughen up.
            Unfortunately, I think she ended up without a nose and a stomach. Sad…

          10. NarcAngel says:

            Yes. Another case of narcs being suited to certain types of work and beneficial to many. Just not in your bed.

          11. K says:

            There have been numerous articles in the paper/news recently about firefighters harassing (attempted rape in one case) female firefighters.
            Alcohol and drug abuse while on the job (stealing meds from people’s houses) and a child was raped last week by a firefighter.

            There was a big scandal involving the State police and overtime pay. Twenty-three officers were either suspended/allowed to retire. The amount of money stolen by the Troopers has not been released to the public yet. But, it is estimated to be in the millions.

            A police officer raped 3 of my cousins and then he prostituted them out to his Brothers in Blue. They were around the age of 9 or 10 when it started.

            Many of the police and firefighters abuse their wives and children and are alcoholics and drug addicts. Their NPD offspring then repeat the cycle. When I was a child, I was raped by a man (lesser) who’s father was a cop.

            I am not a fan of cops or firefighters.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Let’s have some context. How many police officers are there in total and how many have been involved in abusing their partners, ditto fire fighters?

          13. windstorm says:

            I don’t know the percentage, but I do know some state troopers and firefighters who are not narcs. I wonder, though, if it’s not the brutal, gruesome nature of the job mixed with a high percentage of narc coworkers and the nature of people to try to “blend in” that may make them come off more narc-like.

          14. HG Tudor says:

            I would suggest that there may well be a higher percentage of our kind in those occupations but as always I am keen to see some context.

          15. K says:

            I do not have numbers to back up the FD or PD regarding abuse.
            Most of it is hidden. However since the Me Too movement, the news has been reporting more and more incidences regarding inappropriate sexual behavior, money/evidence theft, spousal, drug and alcohol abuse. Gov. Baker shut down Troop E and is investigating 30 State Troopers for theft. There is an ongoing investigation into harassment of female firefighters.

            I know 4 cops and 3 firefighters. All of them are alcoholics/drug addicts and several were forced out (fired) and one (a cop) tried to sexually assault me. As a child I grew up with children whose parents were cops and firefighters and they abused their wives and children. One family: 5 NPD children, 1 CoD and 1 I can’t figure out.
            Some of the cops in my neighborhood were bookies and on the take and many had reputations for being diddlers.

            Not all cops are bad, but a fair amount of them have traits for NPD.

          16. HG Tudor says:

            Noted K, thanks for responding.

          17. K says:

            You are welcome HG. There are many people in the FD and PD who do their jobs well and I recognize that.

          18. SuperXena says:

            Hello K,
            I understand your feelings about them. I am deeply sorry for what happened to you and to your cousins.

            I do not for sure the statistics but I guess that that is a group that is specifically targeted by the media just because is attractive to people since they represent the main defenders of violence which I do believe they are ( main defenders of violence and criminality).

            I am sure that there is a higher occurrence of the crimes you mentioned within other groups that you do not even know about by media not being as sensational as certain groups.

            I think is much a matter of sensationalism by the media to target this group.
            I hope all is fine with you.

          19. K says:

            Thank you, SX
            The majority of crime that I read/hear about displays signs that are indicative of disordered personalities. However, when it involves the PD or FD, it is noted more by the press because they are held to a higher standard.

            The police and FD have a higher incidences of domestic violence and addiction than the general population. It is well hidden and glossed over.

            “Two studies have found that at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10 percent of families in the general population.

          20. SuperXena says:

            Thank you K for the information. The statistics you provided are quite alarming!

          21. Julie says:

            K.. I watch time & time again coworkers involved in domestics and are drunk. Hell, I have a sgt who was picked up for his domestic and was drunk (suprise) and beat the shit out of his wife and they promoted him shortly after!! Narcissim runs rampantly throught this department and it makes me sick. Also nepotism is rife and disgusts me as well. I dont think its as bad with the “hose draggers” but CERTAINLY is with police.
            Im sorry you had that happen to you. Just know there are good, dedicated & honest police & fire personnel out there too who do a job they love because they truely want to help people and make a diffrence.

          22. K says:


            Thank you for sharing. I liked “hose draggers” BTW. After learning about NPD, I noticed many of the signs of NPD in news reports regarding the behavior of FD and PD employees. Spousal, alcohol/drug, and DUI (driving under influence) are common.

            A study done in 2012 showed that 56 percent of firefighters were binge-drinkers

            A startling 20 to 25 percent of active police officers are estimated to be living with a drug or alcohol abuse or addiction issue.

            There are many dedicated FD and PD employees who do make a difference, but there a dirty cops and dirty “hose draggers” that wear the undeserved patina of hero.

          23. windstorm says:

            Both are highly stressful jobs filled with violence and death. That can warp even the best of us. Yes I agree they contain a preponderance of narcs, but I think the stress, violence and horror of what they confront routinely takes a toll and can drive the normals and even the empaths to drugs, alcohol and acting out. This may well manifest in abuse in their home life.

            I have a State Trooper friend who is not a narc and the stories he tells me of what he’s seen on the job are often truly horrible. I could never stand encountering that level of violence and narcissistic abuse often directed at children and the innocent. I don’t know how he can withstand it and stay normal.

          24. K says:

            My (childhood) girlfriend’s father was a fireman and he would tell us how he would find dead children hiding in closets or under beds. It was really sad to listen to his stories. I often wonder if they van compartmentalize their experiences. Her dad was a narcissist and he was not a drinker and he did not do drugs to my knowledge.

            Children should not be exposed to violence. It is inexcusable and it would break my heart to witness it. An ER nurse told me she treated a two-year old girl for rape. I was horrified. What a nightmare.

          25. Julie says:

            K… well said. I agree
            My mother is an alcoholic and My brother and I only drink occasionally. I refuse to be like her. I do love my jello shots tho hahaha (only a few and very seldom). We see everyone mostly at their worst day after day after day so I understand how first responders react with alcohol. Im lucky I never felt the need to drink to cope with my day. Not all are so lucky as you point out.
            I ride my motorcycle for my therapy and it works for me : )
            Hose draggers & badge bunnies ..hop hop

          26. K says:

            A biker chick! Nice. Hell’s Angels.

            My mother drank a lot when she was married to my dad but not anymore. My Narc brother is an alcoholic and my narc sister is a heroin addict. I am very lucky because I have avoided that but I noticed that the WWII, Korean War vets, cops and firemen from my parents generation had some major drinking issues.

            I googled badge bunny and I had no idea they were police “groupies” attracted to the uniform and position of authority. WTF

          27. Julie says:

            K… im so glad I missed the alcoholic gene as well. All my siblings turned out ok in that area thank goodness. I dont know the stats but seems its probley high of offspring having alcohol issues.

            Yes badge bunnies are real! Aka ,holster whores. Haha

          28. Julie says:

            P.s. yes I do love my bike. It is my therapy. I love riding up north in the forests in the early morning and the fresh air and then along the coast of lake michigan. Its so calming to me to just get on and go with no destination in mind. I love the outdoors .Love it!
            Ill swing by on it and grab you on the way to the Pele festival. Ha

          29. K says:

            Ha ha ha…I have always wanted to visit Hawaii. When I googled Badge Bunnies, I also got: Holster Sniffers, a.k.a. holster whores. I betcha some of those badge bunnies are somatic narcissists looking for fuel. The article warns officers to stay away from them because they can ruin a police officer’s career. You are lucky that your siblings missed out on the addiction gene, my sister became a heroin dealer. What a mess.

          30. NarcAngel says:

            Lest people get up in arms- Im sure you meant as an intimate partner. We are all fans when needed in their professional capacity.

          31. K says:

            The PD and FD are their to protect and serve, however, many of them are narcissists who abuse their families or their positions and it is all kept hidden. It is all part of the facade.

          32. NarcAngel says:

            Yes I know but I am less concerned when my ass is on fire lol.

          33. windstorm says:

            You remind me of a mayor saying once that his only requirement for firemen was that they be able to carry a 250 pound mayor down a ladder out of a burning building. Lol!

          34. NarcAngel says:

            I would vote for that Mayor.

          35. K says:

            Ha ha ha…just tap into your super-saviour-empath power and make a bed-sheet-escape-rope and use the garden hose to quell the flames.

          36. Julie says:

            many of them are narcissists who abuse their families or their positions and it is all kept hidden

            You have no idea the extent.

          37. K says:

            I am onto their wily ways now. It reminds me of the catholic church scandal. Abuse thrives under secrecy and silence.

          38. Julie says:

            Amen (no pun intended)

  37. Omj says:

    I just thought I had control over it – that I could leave when I wanted and when d’évaluation started I thought it would just pass.

  38. Julie says:

    This was a tough one. I think many could have picked the whole list or close enough

  39. Tanya says:

    There were many signs over the years that this marriage didn’t “feel “ right or connected. I was always given excuses for how it was ultimately my fault that things were the way they were. Such as, I abandoned him, I was unhappy about whatever poor choice he made, my expectations were unreasonable, he is very sexual so…., I had cancer so he had to cheat because he was losing something too (my breasts and “he loved those”), I am resentful for not being considered in decisions or left out of decisions completely, I act crazy, I expect perfection and he is not perfect, etc. I was gaslighted, blamed, projection was used on me, blame-shifting and triangulation. Eventually, character assasination was implemented and as an empath, I was quick to look at myself to check and recheck how this was all my fault. This only furthered his power and entitlement and served to keep me paralyzed. I am out now and when I look back at the severe emotional abuse I have endured, all because my love for him was real, I am amazed it didn’t do me in. I may have lost all the battles but I will win the war. And the prize is restoring myself to my authentic heart and never making the same mistake again. He loses even though he is pretending to win. Bless his pitiful black soul.

  40. mmmetalll says:

    I didn’t stand a chance of resisting being seduced because I had suffered an abusive childhood and he rescued me from a pretty bad domestic violence situation. He worked hard at it for a few months. No one had loved me or treated me as kindly before. Then when he had me ensnared, I was left at home with the kids while he enjoyed the alcohol, drugs, and partying lifestyle.

    I tried my best to make it work. I catered to his every whim and fancy. It was never enough. I always said or did the wrong thing, so I always tried harder. I always failed.

    I’m amazed at the strength I had to get through it. I lasted with him 15 years (yeah that’s embarrassing) before he ended it. We had a two week break 18 months before it ended, but he hoovered me back. In the final year I vowed to myself I wasn’t going to take any more of his behavior and started rebelling in small doses, and asking him to make changes. Towards the end I was too full on for him (I wasn’t worshipping him anymore) and he ended it.
    And he’s beneath me because he’s an alcoholic and a liar.

  41. Lizbeth says:

    When I look back I see I was always with a frown. ( much needed Botox to repair). I stayed within myself mostly. Bewildered by the feelings of not being happy with him but not capable of letting go.
    I would see his car in my driveway and get a pit in my stomach. With him I would put on a happy face but it got harder and harder as time went by. I became angry with my son because of my own inability to shake the fool from me. His lies were exhausting me. Yet Sleep was a distant memory.
    I am free of him now No Contact!! Just one day out of the blue I said (your not the person I thought you were you have to go). I am now coming out of my coma and feel as if I found a new person within myself. I’m not angry any longer I sleep great! Got my Botox. Lol. I’m on the mend!!

    1. Destroyed says:

      That “pit in my stomach” feeling is something I’ve talked about. It’s something that became all too familiar when I knew something was going to set her off. Usually I was feeling it when I was driving home, knowing what was coming.

  42. windstorm says:

    There was only one I could identify with – at the time I thought I was doing the right thing. That one probably fits all my various narc relationships. It still pretty much stands. Sometimes doing what seems like the right thing at the time is still not a very good choice, even if it was the best of our options at the time.

  43. Dimitrios Gazis says:

    You do realize most people could pick pretty much every one of these choices, right?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I think you mean an individual could pick pretty much every one of these. Perhaps, hence why it is limited to four so people pick the four strongest, otherwise it wouldn’t be much of a poll would it if everybody chose every option.

      1. Julie says:

        HG.. Too right! I felt like I got a nice old fashioned Gibbs smack reading all of them. Ty

      2. Dimitrios Gazis says:

        I mean that most such entanglements, with few exceptions, entail every choice. Furthermore, I suspect the choices change as time passes and we do the work to fix ourselves and move forward. One day NC and one year NC will likely yield very different results from the same person.

        I assume the most common responses will guide further content creation.

      3. Destroyed says:

        Makes sense.

    2. Destroyed says:

      Yes, it was hard to narrow to four.

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