Poll : What Causes You To Continue To Engage With The Narcissist


What keeps making you engage with the narcissist?

This does not include the narcissist hoovering you, it is about what causes you to spend time with the narcissist, or message the narcissist, or keep doing things for the narcissist, or talking about the narcissist to other people and also thinking about the narcissist. So keep in mind, just because you may not be spending time physically with the narcissist you may still be engaging in some way (and thus of course increasing your emotional thinking).

What drives that repeated engagement? Are you pining for the golden period and when you get flashes of benign treatment from the narcissist does that make you engage further in the hope of getting more? Perhaps you want to ruin the narcissist’s life so you are engaging in order to achieve that? Maybe the truthseeker is strong in you and you are engaging in order to get the narcissist to give you an explanation for why you have been treated in the way you have or perhaps to convey to the narcissist how you feel about the way you have been hurt or angered? Perhaps you just do not know and you feel compelled to keep thinking, to keep calling or waiting for a moment to go and see the narcissist.

You may choose up to three responses which are applicable to your situation and as ever do expand on your thoughts in the comments section.

Thank you for participating.


What has caused YOU to continue engaging with the narcissist?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

708 thoughts on “Poll : What Causes You To Continue To Engage With The Narcissist

  1. NarcAngel says:

    Problems with WordPress has had me miss many comments and I have just come across yours to me on this thread. It was some time ago, but I wanted you to know that I did finally see it and very much appreciate your kind words and understanding. I hope you are well.

  2. Renarde says:

    I couldn’t believe my eyes this morning when I saw this thread at over 680 comments! Wow!

    It’s been intresting reading some of the newer ones. As a relative newbie here myself, I knew there must be some back story with some of the longer time posters.

    Bottom line, most of us have been horrifically abused. Of course there are Ns here. Posting a comment is risky but generally from what I have seen, most people are very supportive. Let’s face it; we’re all different. Boring if we weren’t!

    Also, whoever made the comment about HG being silent means nothing; Totally agree.

    I also feel that most E’s once weaponised at some point doubt there E credentials. I did. I then reassured myself and put it away. I don;t want to feel I am second guessing myself permanently. I am what I am. I can display N characteristics with the best of them. I know I have cognitive and affective empathy.

    Proving affective empathy on an internet board is a tricky thing and fundamentally, accusing others or diagnosing others… I’m just not sure what the point is? It could deter others’ from posting…

  3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


    Song on my playlist….made me think of you lol!


    ….you feeling like no one can relate
    ‘Cause you are, you are a loner, loner
    Marijuana, endorphins make you stronger, stronger
    I’m in the house party trippin’ off
    My generation sippin’ cough syrup like its water

    ….That the world is ’bout to end who gives a fuck? We never do listen
    Unless it comes with an 808, a melody and some hoes
    Playstation and some drank, technology bumping soul
    Looking around and all I see is a big crowd, that’s product of me
    And they probably relatives relevant for a rebel’s dream
    Yep, the president is black
    She black too, purple label on her back but that dap
    Is light blue, she take it straight to the head
    Then she look at me, she got ADHD

    ….And then she started feeling herself like no on else in this apartment
    Beg you pardon oh, I rap baby, how old are you?
    She say twenty-two, I say twenty-three, ok, then we all crack babies
    Damn, why you say that?
    She said, “Where my drink at?”
    I’mma tell you later, just tell your neighbors have the police relax
    I stood up, shut the blinds closed the screen, Jumbotron
    Made it to the back, where she reside
    Then she said, READ BETWEEN THE LINES
    Yep, hope that I get close enough when the lights turn down
    And the fact that she just might open up when the new flow start to drown
    Her body and I, know the both of us really deep in the move now
    It’s nothing we can do now
    Somebody walked in with a pound
    Of that Bay Area kush
    She looked at me then looked
    At it, then she grabbed it then she said, get it understood
    You know why we crack babies
    Because we born in the 80’s that ADHD crazy

    ….You can have all my shine
    I’ll give you the light

  4. Nika - Survival says:

    I am petite, 5”4-5”5, and my family is from France, but I was born in America. However, I understand this to be of no major interest. But, since others were mentioning these things, I did, too. (12% British, too)!

  5. Nika - Survival says:


    No other place to reply, but here.

    Yes, moderation sucks. But, sometimes I try my best to walk the line due to social standards. I have trouble keeping moderate. I usually go to extremes on everything.

  6. NarcAngel says:

    Sorry, but I do not associate you with puke at all lol. I enjoy and look for your comments. I used to have a similar avatar to you, then long ago and only temporarily a bunch of us put our actual photo on so we had a better idea of who we were talking to. There was also joking around about characters between some of us (Clarece, Snow White, Indy, and a few others) wearing fur (because Im from Canada) capes, etc. It lead to me choosing that avatar as a joke and it stuck- I just never changed it. I did not know it was Michelle Phieffer and has no real meaning. Just thought I’d settle that once and for all. If it really bothers or upsets people I can change it. I’d ask for suggestions but I know what road that would likely lead down.…
    I’d suggest you take back your ass pic from the Please Please Please article to use as your avatar, but you know how those Narcs are, HG owns your ass now (at least in his mind).

  7. NarcAngel says:

    Hi Doc HQ
    WordPress has me missing comments so I am just seeing yours now and was unable to reply directly so hope you get this.

    I did not make the original comment to Tigerchelle because I do not get along with her. I made it because I have read on more than one occasion where she has painted a picture (usually to someone newer to the blog as in this case) that she has been attacked for no reason at all and knows how they feel, when she knows full well this is not the case and that she has participated in the very behaviours she denounces. It is unfair to the reputation of the blog and the people that she points fingers to and uses terms such as Stormtroopers and fans merely because they happen to be of the same opinion of someone she does not care for. On another thread someone disagreed with something she said (and it had nothing to do with me) and immediately it was: “cue the stormtroopers” “predictable”. Why is it okay that she does this but not okay that I point it out?. I was honest and direct. Then you saw what she REALLY thinks. What is held behind all of the niceties. People tried to help her see her behaviour subsequent. I did not label them her fans or call them names. Yes, I know I’m direct. That is who I am. I have taken into account things people have offered previously about being in different states and being unable to accept some things in a blunt or direct manner and try to take that into account with different personalities. Should I really have to become someone I am not because some (the minority) are unable to read an opinion without taking it so personally that they have to burn down the house? Should we all have to adapt to a certain style to make those few comfortable, or can we be ourselves and have them learn to identify that it is not something that resonates or applies to them and have them move on. Doesnt that seem more fair than altering everything to please a few? I am calm. I cant help it if people put a voice that is not mine to my comments because they do not care for me. I will also say that it really didnt bother me what Tigerchelle said about me learning from my father (he was my stepfather btw) but it did demonstrate how far off the rails someone can go, and people were right to point it out to her because it did not hurt me but it could be damaging to another. Blank is upset because I brought up her previous comment about you overdosing. Well again, espousing empathy for some and but then calling you out as being on the “wrong forum” when you reappeared and pointing out my “superiority”, which again, the opinion doesnt bother me-just the fact that she feels she is allowed to say it freely but boy oh boy, I better not address her or Tigerchelle on their behaviour. I am amazed at how they dont see the irony or contradiction. I may be viewed as a bitch, but I am honest about what I say and believe. Does saying you’ve been diagnosed as BPD (or whatever other diagnosis people have to offer) allow you to say what you like as long as you take it back or apologize after? If thats the case-Im out because thats just playing games and haven’t we all had enough of that?

    1. Blank says:

      Okay, here we go again…

      NA, I figured you’d be more mature than you are showing.

      Tigerchelle mentioned about you acting superior and she felt all alone in everything she says on this blog. Since I understood what she meant with that statement, I let her know I am feeling this also, I mentioned this, to comfort her. It is the truth. I would not have mentioned it by myself, because even if I feel you come across superior I don’t mind, it doesnt bother me.Everyone has his own way.

      I do not like Harley’s attitude in the comments where she is herself and not the cognitive empathic doctor. I do not trust her and if she really is a doctor I feel sorry for her patients, because she has no empathic feelings whatsoever for the narcissistic disorder. She gives me 15 red flags. That’s my opinion. It still doesn’t mean I want her dead and it is honestly not fair to bring ‘the overdose’ up every time, since I have explained how I meant it and why I said it and I have apologized in case she took my comment serious. For gods sake, how could I ever wish someone to commit suicide for real!
      When Harley thinks I am not remorseful than this is up to her. To be honest I think the word remorseful doesn’t even exist in Har;ey’s vocabulary.

      “Blank is upset”….

      excuse me??? I was totally not upset NA. I am now, because you purposefully change all my comments around. Does ‘haha’ sound like being upset?

      “she is allowed to say it freely but boy oh boy, I better not address her”

      Who says? You got proof?

      “I may be viewed as a bitch,”

      Yes, that’s right, but sometimes your comments make me laugh as well. You can be a bitch, it’s fine with me. By the way, you so so yourself. You don’t have ODD, you’re just a straight A bitch or so you said, remember?

      NA, you don’t like me, fine. Harley doesn’t like me, fine. I don’t comment to be liked.

      I will not address either of you again. Hope that will do.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        I am responding only to say that you thinking that I don’t like you is untrue, and you can address me anytime you like.

      2. Blank says:

        Okay, thanks for your reponse NA.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I don’t care if you like me and let it be known I do not like you. I have tried to be nice to you in the past; however you have insisted on being rude and nasty to me. You are entitled to your feelings but your comments to me have been abusive. Your analysis of me is and always has been completely incorrect. We’ve established that I’m a doctor (a long time) ago but if you would like to continue to believe I might not be – whatever gets you through the day because it doesn’t impact my life in any way.

        You have done nothing but attack me since you have appeared on this forum. You do not offer criticism and it’s laughable if you actually believe what you are saying. I find you insincere, hypocritical, and disrespectful. I sometimes can’t decide if you just don’t know how to speak to people at times or you are just trying to irritate; however it all just doesn’t matter. I honestly believe at times you are blind to yourself but that is not my problem because I don’t engage with you in my every day life. I don’t even expect you to actually take in what I am saying because you won’t see it anyway but I feel the need to voice my feelings because since we are being so honest about our feelings here…I’d like to join the party.

        I’m not interested in your fake apologies – others may believe you but I do not and NEVER will. You negate your apologies by throwing in some jab that is just straight up rude, nasty, and incorrect. I hope you develop more self-awareness because you continue to demonstrate how blind you are to yourself. I’ve said what I needed to say and this is where it ends.

        So make no mistake…I do not like you and do not address me.

      4. tigerchelle78 says:


        I understand. You are not alone in what you are thinking….. I’m sorry for you going through this…..just because you decided to agree with me.

        Personally I have nothing against Harley, and she has been great in describing what borderlines are like, and her experience within her field.
        HG describes narcissism only. But that same spectrum has other disorders along it, with similar type symptoms but not the same as other disorders. But overlapping often happens.
        So I’m appreciative of her expertise.

        But I also appreciate you in the fact that you decided to support me in your thinking, because it takes strength to go against the grain as it were. Not because I want some kind of hate fest against NA. I appreciate what NA does for this blog. Her comments benefit many, and she is needed here.

        But bullying in any type manner is not cool nor is it OK……anywhere! Period!

        No matter how long somebody has been here it doesn’t give them the right to lord it over the rest. Only Tudor has permission to do that. I would hate for someone who is really damaged, to come away from here wanting to kill them self, and does it, because instead of getting supported they are getting bullied….and then Tudors group being brought up in all the news because of how horrible the people were being to each other.

        We are all the same here, all imperfect, and all mess up, and seek understanding about Narcs. But if there is this attitude that some are seeing creeping in, should they not be able to say without being slaughtered and put on a spit roast?!?

        I have also had to make the same decision to not address some too. Because they continue to pick literally at everything I say. They are finding minimal excuses to just dig at me and poke their judgemental fingers and find fault.

        Don’t worry that nobody likes you in here. Although that’s never the case. There will always be some you resonate with and who get where you are coming from, and who really like your comments. You just have to pick and choose. Don’t let a few get to you.

        I no longer can be bothered to be worried about what people who are half way around the world, whom I don’t know, and they don’t know me… nor will ever…. or have never met me…think of or about me. But you can betcha bottom dollar, everything I say, they will pull apart and use to further make me feel like I’m some kinda less than a human being and a complete waste of space. I guess it makes them feel better about themselves in some way.

        I suggest they go and use something more productive to make themselves feel better instead of taking it out on already wounded people.

        Whatever my wrongs in here have been, I’ve tried to say sorry and apologise which is more than I see others do, and that “should” be the end of it!

      5. Blank says:


        “insincere, hypocritical, and disrespectful”

        “trying to irritate” “blind to myself”

        “rude, nasty, and incorrect”

        and what was the other stuff you told me recently?

        “my bullshit” “fake remorse” and there must be more..

        I see.. that’s bad. I have a lot to work on I guess, thanks doctor.

        Do you think I’m just a disgusting, despicable person, or do you think I might have a disorder or likely more than one?

        1. SMH says:

          Blank, You don’t need to engage on this site with people you do not like or do not feel comfortable with. Even if they attack you or say something mean, you can just close your laptop or turn off your notifications or whatever – go out into the real world and never return to the comment. For what it’s worth, if I see red flags in someone (and I do), I generally do not engage. Right now I think there is one narc here (not including HG). There were two. One is gone.

      6. Blank says:

        SMH, thanks for your support. xx

      7. Blank says:


        You tell me I keep attacking you.
        Do I need to point out that YOU were the one attacking me this time?

        After you explained your ODD, I was going to completely leave you at peace.
        I was aware that, although I still believe you are a narc, I might mistake ODD for NPD.
        Since I am no expert, I could be wrong. So I would not address you anymore.
        Then NA, digging up old cows from the ditch (as the saying goes in my country), mentions “the overdose”. You then attacked me after you mistook my “just-above-the-belt-comment”. NA responded, after which I had to defend myself because of her wrong assumptions.

        In no way I started ‘attacking’ you this time.

        This just feels like being back at home. My mother starting some kind of a fight and then blame me and in the end all of the family think I am an ungrateful child, when I had nothing to do with the whole argument in the first place.
        How often do you want me to apologize for something I said last year in my anger and already apologized for several times? Tell me, I will do it. When will you believe I am sincere?

        It seems you can not separate my apology from me not liking your attitude.
        As if you say, you apologize, so now you have to like and adore me, otherwise your apology was not sincere. That doesn’t make sense.

        After you came back to this blog and I told you you were on the wrong website again I explained why I thought so.
        I told you you are a psychologist, a therapist, so you know about disorders. Still you purposefully engage with narcs and psychopaths in an intimate relationship.
        You are a thrill-seeker, you flirt, you go for the flattering, admiration, the sex and the excitement. Fine, if that’s what turns you on. But when you get bored (once the men stop admiring you and their fuel gets stale) you get rid of them and then come to this blog to burn the guys down.

        To this blog, where women come who are sincerely confused and in pain and had no awareness of narcissism at all.

        There is a pattern and it is confirmed by lots of your comments and all the song lyrics you put up here. They all have in common “just punish the losers that are so far beneath you and play those damn narcs”.
        So I asked you: why Harley?
        But all I get are word salads, blame, projection etc.. not answers.
        You don’t have to answer me. That’s fine. I was going to leave you alone. This time you brought it up yourself.

        Why are you here anyway Harley? Why, being a therapist, do you want to hurt people with a disorder that you purposefully engage with and that you, of all people, should feel compassion for. Why not leave them alone, relationship-wise? Where is your empathy Harley?

        1. SMH says:

          Blank, Just to reinforce what I said: the good doctor could be making everything up. You don’t know. She could also be a he. If you sense insincerity in someone, you are probably right about it. It’s not worth the emotional energy to try to pin someone like that down, as you probably know from dealing with narcs in real life. You also know that they do not answer questions directly or if they do, they will obfuscate. This is a good opportunity to practice trusting your gut. xx

      8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        What I find really unfortunate is that you have a complete misunderstanding of who I am as a person as well as a psychologist and my relationships. I don’t willingly engage with narcissists romantically. I sometimes have to interact with a few narcissists in my personal life due to the fact they are involved in relationships with friends of mine (I know at least two BPD + NPD couples). I think it’s a given that I interact with them occasionally professionally because of my occupation. As for psychopathic people, I engage with them due to my profession and I willingly engage with certain psychopathic people in my personal life. I have always found psychopaths fascinating. This is probably because they have a freedom that I don’t. The psychopath and I are essentially opposite ends of the spectrum but I can identify with being different – an outlier and I understand them and accept them for who they are. Yes, I’m sort of a thrill seeker – not as much as you think though. I do require a certain level of mental stimulation that the psychopaths that I do engage with personally can keep up with. At this point in my life I realize that I can understand someone and feel for them but I don’t have to put up with abuse.

        I wish you were right – I wish I were a narcissist or a psychopath because I feel too much. We all have different ways of coping with situations and I simply cope differently than you do. It doesn’t make t wrong and it doesn’t make me disordered. The things you have written to me in the past were and are incorrect assumptions and continue to be very judgemental. You have an idea in your head that people should feel and behave the way you do or in ways you believe are acceptable. I am not wrong, bad, or unempathetic or whatever because I don’t fit into your box. I find that you struggle to see situations and points from perspectives that drastically differ from your own.

        My past relationships have been emotionally abusive and sexually abusive – so to tell me that I come here because I get bored of these men and their fuel is stale and what not is totally inaccurate, outlandish and baseless. You don’t like my attitude. You don’t like my personality – it triggers you and don’t approve of the way that I cope. You are telling me what my experiences are in my relationships and you are telling me my motives when you have no idea what I have been through. If you now decide to insinuate or bluntly state that you think I am making up the emotional abuse and sexual abuse that I’ve been through then you are invalidating me.

        I have been direct with you. I don’t even give fluffy verbose answers – so you saying that I give you word salad and what not doesn’t even add up. I have empathy for narcissists – it’s annoying at times but I do. However when I am being abused by one or a friend is that empathy ends because I need to take care of myself or my friend. I admit I fall into my ODD ways sometimes because it is difficult for me to constantly take abuse and sit there – the right thing to do technically is to walk away and now I do. In the past – I would fight back and punish them right back and the games wouldn’t begin. I realize that it’s all pointless so I don’t engage. To say that the urge doesn’t creep on me me would be a lie – because my instinctual reaction would Start with being understanding … take it and take it until I’m like nahhh now he needs to be fucked with. Now… I stop myself as I said before because it’s all pointless.

        NA was pointing out inconsistency. I admit I misunderstood a comment you made which was my bad; however the way you responded and continued to respond made the situation way worse. I also found the hypocracy annoying.

        You don’t have to like me. You don’t have to approve of me or understand me but I won’t let you tell me who or what I am and the experiences I’ve had. There is no way I’m gonna let that one slide. It’s all insensitive, abusivr and dead wrong. I decided to answer you only to correct your inaccuracies because almost all of your statements were wrong.

        I come here to be a human – to be with people who can relate to the experiences I’ve been though and I come here to learn. I don’t hurt anyone while I’m here. I don’t attack or put anyone down. I voice my opinion and share experiences. I sometimes share knowledge/psychoeducation pertaining to various mental health conditions – this is acceptable and ethical. It would be unethical and irresponsible to stamp a true diagnosis on someone based on blog comments. I’m not here in a professional capacity but I do have the credentials and am a psychologist. Most importantly I am a person and I think you forget that. I strongly believe that you are unaware of yourself and rationalize the things you say.
        I also believe you jump to conclusions without all of the information or context.

        I’m a lover not a fighter and I would like nothing more than to get along with you but it appears that is not possible. I think its horrible you’ve been through the things you have been through and in that capacity I feel for you.

      9. Blank says:

        SMH, I know you mean well, but what works for you may not work for me. I could leave Harley alone and I was going to, but my gut feeling tells me I am not done with her.

        First of all, when someone here addresses a person personally, this is a kind of private conversation (unfortunately this is good as it gets here). And in my opinion others should not feel the need to jump in, unless they are mentioned in a comment that’s not addressed to them.
        I could be careless and haughty, just like Harley’s attitude (I always try to mention I don’t like Harley’s attitude and not I don’t like Harley, there is a difference.) and just leave her alone, but I care. If I do not express this it’ll keep going around in my head because I feel the need to say it.
        Harley’s attitude, to my opinion, is haughty because of unsolved issues with her parents. She has inner anger and sadness. My guess is, that at home she was/is only validated for her achievements and did not get unconditional love, nor did she get emotional guidance.
        Why I think so, is because Harley tells she has a girl-crush on TMM, when the only thing TMM mentiones is her status (Harvard/high IQ).
        We didn’t know even 1% of TMM’s character at the time. This means Harley validates people for their status, most likely because that’s how her parents validate(d) people. Harley gets bored with men once they stop admiring and praising her, that’s when the thrill is gone, that’s what she says in her comments, meaning she needs this to feel good about herself. I think she does not feel that she can be loved for her inner self also. But if you want to be loved for your inner self, your character, people need to find something worth loving. And there is probably a lot worth to be loved in the inner Harley, but this all repressed and covered with her appearances-shield. Men do not get so far as to H’s inner core. There is the wall.
        Now I’m not saying that in a relationship with a narc there will be mutual love, we all know it’s not possible. But a normal or an empath will be able to love her for her inner self, if she is willing to show this.
        Harley is a therapist, she knows this cognitively. She might be blind to her own issues, but my guess is, she is too afraid to deal with them. It’s scary as hell (as my N-ex would call it). That’s what I think.

        SMH, thank you. I appreciate what you said and I am always practicing trusting my gut. I just deal with it in another way than you I guess. Don’t feel bad about people arguing. I know a lot of empaths can not handle arguments very well. But arguing is healthy, I just read about it the other week. People need to get their feelings and emotions out, so they do not turn inwards and become frustration, sadness and anger and then one time become malignant/violent either for themselves or for others. It also is important to get to the core problem of issues. You need to get to where the pain is to be able to drag it out.
        Now we can all mind our own business and kindly discuss the horrible narcs we engaged with, but we also need to learn for ourselves, to break the vicious cycle. If I feel I might be able to make someone see what they do not see for themselves, I will try.

        There is more and I will mention this in a seperate comment, because HG might feel it is inappropriate or too much into politics/cultural issues to want to put it up here.

      10. Blank says:


        following my comment to SMH, I’d like to say something more to you.
        It’s a sensitive subject and I do not know if HG will allow me, but I’d like to say this to you.
        When looking at your picture and your ‘features’ I think you might have a Jewish background. I know mentioning the word “Jewish” will get some people all stirred up or anxious, but I am not in any way into discrimination.There can be cultural issues though, because of cultural inheritance, wars, immigration, etc..
        In my life, having visited Israel and having dealt with Jewish people I have noticed two things:

        -A lot of Jewish people (especially religious Jewish people) will think/act Narcish because they feel better than others because they believe they are ‘Gods chosen people’, as the Thora/Bible says. Even when children are not religious, they’ll pick up the attitude from their parents. We are better, we deserve more, because the Thora says so.
        -A lot of Jewish people have suffered immensely during World War II.
        People who made it to come back from the concentrationcamps in most cases suffer from extreme trauma because of all the horror they had to endure and witnessed.Those people often shut off their emotions and build a wall to project themselves to ever feel the horror again. Lots of Jewish people immigrated to the US, worked hard, build businesses and just excluded ‘feelings’. There’s an awful lot of Narcs on Wallstreet as you may know.

        Let me say, this is not just a Jewish affair, it is sadly the reality for an awfull lot of people who have been in war-situations.
        The problem with people who deal with war-trauma is that they do not get the right help. I see it in our country, immigrants come from, say Syria, they are given shelter and food, but hardly any psychological or emotional help. These people have witnessed horrifying cruelty and now are supposed to just adjust to our way of life, while having all the demons in their head.

        Well, I’m not telling you anything new I guess, Harley.
        I just want to say it is possible that your parents have a Jewish background and have not been able to deal with emotions (because of the Jewish inheritance) and were therefore very focussed on achievements.
        Try to look into yourself Harley and see why it is you are acting the way you are, why it is you feel other people are ‘beneath’ you, why it is you feel like punishing the losers. See where your inner anger, frustration and sadness comes from. Perhaps once you’ve worked this through you feel capable of feeling real love for a person.That’s when you can stay with someone in a relationship once the boredom sets in, because you feel real love and you don’t want to lose that.

        Harley, I know you hate my guts and you probably don’t believe me, but I care for you. I would not be spending all of my sundaymorning writing these comments if I didn’t care, I hope you can see that. I wish you a better life and a fulfilling relationship and I offer you my sincere apology again for mentioning the ‘overdose’ and hope we can make a new start here. xx


      11. Blank says:


        “If you now decide to insinuate or bluntly state that you think I am making up the emotional abuse and sexual abuse that I’ve been through then you are invalidating me.”

        Tell me where I stated this.

      12. Blank says:

        Harley, I ‘know’ you from your Narc letter, the comments you make, the songlyrics you put here and your reactions to me and I see a split personality. You on one side, the doctor on the other side.
        I have written 2 comments this morning, I have no idea if HG will put them here, but I rest my case. It’s not that I need to proof something here.

      13. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        It’s become clear despite my attempts to bring clarity to your misinterpretations and misunderstandings we are right back where we started. That’s fine. I can at least say I tried.

        You have not just jumped but leaped to conclusions about my parents and upbringing that are completely incorrect. I have two happily married parents who are both psychologists. They have been nothing but loving and supportive throughout my entire life. I was never evaluated simply by my achievements; however my parents always encouraged me to do the best I can. Their love has been unconditional and a lot of my misbehavior as a teen was due to typical teenage rebellious behavior and because of symptoms due to my ADHD which were misunderstood as being oppositional. My issues in relationships that have to do with the boredom and what not are to some degree what typical people feel after awhile but it’s even worse for me because of my ADHD. ADHD people have difficulty in relationships for many reasons and the excitement factor is just one of them. In each of my narcissistic relationships I have suffered abuse in the forms I mentioned in my previous post. That is how I wound up here. My relationships don’t go south because of this boredom – they go south because of the typical narcissistic dynamic that unfolds and the abuse that comes with that package. You seemed to have missed very important pieces in my letter (which was from a narcissistic perspective) that I was sexually abused and not accepted for who I was. You also selectively take pieces of information to confirm whatever conclusions you have come to in your mind. That’s neither here nor there at this point.

        If you familiarize yourself on different mental health conditions and how they manifest themselves then you might have a better understanding. I think it’s insensitive and all-knowing to try and dissect (and in this case incorrectly dissect and analyze) another posters past. What you have said is based solely on your misinterpretations and misunderstanding of me and my posts on a blog. People are multidimensional. They are not simply one thing.

        We will have to agree to disagree. Hey, I gave it one last go and tried to help you understand.

      14. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I meant “validated for achievements” in my previous post – however I wanna use both “evaluated by and validated for” when I talk about how my parents DID give me unconditional love and you have this idea that they did not.

        I was interested in Harvard’s cognitive abilities because I do evaluations. I understand the scores and this type of information on a different level because of what I do. A good evaluator doesn’t simply look at the score but also how the individual goes about solving the problem. I am observing behaviors and looking at the mistakes they are making and what not but I’m getting off topic. Her scores are impressive but that doesn’t encompass all types of intelligence and like I’ve said in a previous post my perspective on intelligence and intelligence testing is beyond the scope of this blog. My girl crush comment was based on more than a score but it all doesn’t matter. I forgot to mention this on the longer response I typed to you so here I am adding it to address something you said in your post that was another misunderstanding.

      15. Blank says:

        “It’s become clear despite my attempts to bring clarity to your misinterpretations and misunderstandings we are right back where we started. That’s fine. I can at least say I tried.”

        Harley, this is not fair, it is because our comments crossed. I had not even seen your comment, before I wrote mine to SMH.

        I will come back to your last comment and after that I call it quits.

      16. Blank says:

        Harley, this will be my last comment.

        I hear what you are saying, but words are words and not my feeling.
        The red flags have not disappeared.
        I feel you do not practice what you preach.

        You say I think it’s my way or the highway, I think in boxes. No, that is what therapists do. That is totally not me. Anyone can live the way they want to (within the law), if you want to be a drag queen or go to church dressed up as a Panda bear while smoking Marihuana, if they’ll let you in, it’s fine with me. If you like to engage with narcs, fine with me. I have no problem with people who are different from me whatsoever. I have problems though with therapists that do not show compassion for the disorders of people they engage with privately. Most of all I have problems with people who say they are better than other people, people who consider other people beneath them.
        Such a mindset is what causes the wars in this world, it is why the globe’s richest 1% own half the world’s wealth, It is why immigrants drown in the sea and others have to live behind walls, and I could go on. That really gets to me.

        Harley I call it quits.

        I will listen to that Taylor Swift song you like so much.

        I never trust a narcissist, but they love me
        So I play ’em like a violin <—————————————-
        And I make it look oh-so-easy
        'Cause for every lie I tell them, they tell me three
        This is how the world works
        Now all he thinks about is me

        I can feel the flames on my skin
        Crimson red paint on my lips
        If a man talks shit, then I owe him nothing
        I don't regret it one bit, 'cause he had it coming

        They say I did something bad
        Then why's it feel so good? <—————————————
        They say I did something bad
        But why's it feel so good?
        Most fun I ever had <————————————————
        And I'd do it over and over and over again if I could <——-
        It just felt so good, good

        I never trust a playboy, but they love me
        So I fly 'em all around the world
        And I let them think they saved me
        They never see it comin', what I do next
        This is how the world works
        You gotta leave before you get left

        This song is nothing but a sick and twisted Narc song!


    2. Clarece says:

      Hi NA! Virtual fist bump because yes, I concur you do try to accommodate people’s personalities when you converse with them.
      You are appreciated.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Thank you Clarece. I appreciate that.

    3. Nika - Survival says:

      I am also missing comments due to WordPress not notifying me. This has been going on for a long time.

    4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      I apologize for the delayed response. I understand what you are saying and you make valid points. My approach can be similar to yours (at times) but most of the time I try to package things in different ways so that that there is a higher probability my message will be well received. I do see your perspective though. I would like to add that I don’t think you are a bitch. I think you are assertive. I respect you and what you have to say and I value your perspective.


    5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      Maybe it would help if I put things in HG’s terminology. I’ve consulted with him many times (he’s like my Hannibal lector on call) and find his analysis very on point and helpful. During a consultation I of course was curious to hear his perception and categorization of me and my traits because I’m sure we all are a bit curious…

      Anyway, I am a magnet superempath. Maybe that will help bring a little more clarification/ understanding because HG communicates his ideas in a non clinical way and I do believe that his classification of me (magnet superempath) is accurate.

      1. Blank says:

        Right Harley, then I guess I must be the narc. Bye!

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Have a lovely night!

      3. Blank says:

        Sorry Harley, I could not rest my case and I tell you why.
        I am a truth seeker, I can’t stop until I know the truth. My thoughts kept me awake all night. I just know that you are a narcissist. The gaslighting and manipulation is all over this thread and elsewhere.
        All of the red flags and my gut feeling tell me you are a narc. I will not even point out all the evidence, because it’s on this blog for everyone to see, that is, if they can clearly see your manipulations.
        I am not here to proof you are a narcissist, because I could not do so anyway. Narcissist fool people and especially psychologists with NPD could fool people even better. The fact that you tell both your parents are psychologists only gives me one more red flag. As I’ve said on this blog before, most people study psychology because they are f*cked up themselves. And almost all therapists have proved that to be right. Your facade to me is clear. I wanted to point out to you that so long you do not deal with your own issues and carry your mask, you can never have a loving relationship. But I guess my words will fall on deaf ears, just like they did with the narcs I’ve dealt with.

        What bothers me is that I have all these red flags and I just know you are a narc and still you claim to be a magnet super empath. HG diagnosed you that way so you say.
        I value HG’s work immensely, because it gave me the opportunity to deal with the past and start over. I will always be very grateful for that and whenever I’ll get some money that I can save I will buy all his books and give them to someone who might need them at the time (and I know I don’t have to look very far). I also know that HG can not diagnose a person like a therapist can after months- or years long consultation. He can’t even see one’s (perhaps lying) face.
        HG bases his diagnosis on the information you provide him with and this will be really helpful in case you wonder if the person you are dealing with is a narc. But of course, the information you provide can be total bullocks. You would not give false information when you’d want to have your mother diagnosed, but you would when you are a thrill seeker and just want to have a flirt with HG and want him to believe you are an empath (and perhaps have an interesting discussion about your profession as well). Knowing a narcissist I also realise that HG most likely would not admit a wrong diagnose, when in the longer term he can see that you are a narc.

        I want to have this said, because I know there are more women who might feel they are being gaslighted here.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Whilst you are correct that one bases an assessment on furnished information, it is also important to explain, for the sake of accuracy, that I have had access to a lot of information with regard to Dr HQ. Naturally, you do not know this and therefore I understand why you have formed the view that you have, but it is to underline and emphasise that I have had access to far more information than you realise which means your observations whilst valid in a general sense, are not accurate in this specific instance.

  8. WhoCares says:

    Bibi – I was scrolling through and read your post and I just have to say that yes; we don’t have to like everyone’s approach or perspective – and most are able to agree to disagree…

    Also – what’s this about think of Bibi and think of puke…?

    Ah – so many times I see your posts peppered throughout the blog and, inevitably, I read them because they make me giggle – or snicker – and are often refreshing…like a spice when the palate that has had many similar flavors – there you pop up; like a bit of cilantro…or a piece of peppercorn a little too coarsely ground.

    You are not pukey, Bibi –
    you are spicy and a little bit piquante…

    I hope you can appreciate my analogy 🙂

    1. Valkyrie says:

      Bibi, I like to think of it as chartreuse 😉

      Green is my favorite color. 💚

  9. Valkyrie says:

    I feel sorry for the new people…

    New person: “hmmm..this link looks interesting, let me read this one.”

    *clicks on link*

    New person: “620 comments! Eff that! Let’s see what else we have one here.”

    *move to different topic*

  10. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    I’m going to have to put you lovely “encourageables” in the “naughty corner” 😂
    Moral of the story…..
    too many bubbles 🍾 “hic” and you end up with a “prick”
    Luv Bubbles xx

    1. Blank says:

      Ha ha ha Bubbles 🤣😂🤗🤗😘

      1. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dear Blank,
        💋Mwah 🥂
        Luv Bubbles xx

  11. Coffee Time says:

    In my case it’s that my narc is married to my father who is an enabler. I tolerated a lot of abuse because I wasn’t inclined to letting her take my father from me. With therapy I have come to accept that he chooses to stay with her instead of having a relationship with me so I cut them both off. It still hurts, and I sometimes still wish to talk to him, but I can’t without including her. So I am forced to accept that he might as well be considered dead and buried. That’s likely the next and last time I will be seeing him.

  12. amanda SNapchat says:

    wow its really cool there are almost 500 comments on this post! woot woot! way to go narcsite! super engaging space!

  13. SMH says:

    For continuous engagement, this thread beats anything else I’ve seen. We just cannot seem to move on, can we?

    1. Jasmine says:

      A narc smorgasbord.

    2. wissh says:


      “For what it’s worth, if I see red flags in someone (and I do), I generally do not engage. Right now I think there is one narc here (not including HG). There were two. One is gone.”

      I’ve only been here a couple of weeks and don’t know all the regulars yet, but I have done a lot of reading and have wondered if there were narcs besides HG here. I’m glad you shed some light.

      1. SMH says:


        I am not an expert but one thing I have learned here is to trust my gut. I’m relatively new too (about 6 months – some people have been here on and off for years and some people just read the posts/lurk and never say anything). But I’ve engaged with enough people over a long enough time to at least get a grip on myself and know that if I am going to do battle, how I am going to do it and whether it is worth it.

        I think what bothers me the most is that some people are triggered by the presence of certain posters in these conversations and my empathic side wants to help, so I tend to jump in if I see someone hurting or who needs defending. But if it is just me, I stay away from the poster.

        Also, I ask myself – would I want to be friends with this person in real life? If the answer is no, then there is no reason to engage with them here either. That is a gut trusting question too.

        There have been people on here I’ve avoided, including HG because at first he really triggered me. But I have been here long enough now to be comfortable with him and the others I at first avoided.

        I am not always right but I am always right for me at any particular time.
        It is all about trusting yourself. You are allowed to be wrong too but your first loyalty has to be to yourself.

        For what it’s worth, I don’t think there are many narcs here at all. In fact, it is amazing how few there are. But the ones that appear tend to be really heavy, loud, and drop like rocks into a pool of water. They are attention seekers and cause waves and ripples.

      2. wissh says:

        Thanks for your response. I have some guesses, and you’re right, I have found no reason to engage with them yet.

  14. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

    I nominated you, Mr. Tudor, HG, for The Sunshine Blogger Award. I know you are too busy to accept it, but I just wanted you to know that I was thinking of you, and the sunshine you bring to others!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

      1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        The pleasure, of course, is mine. It is kind of you to say, “Thank you”.

    2. Lori says:

      Hahahaha survival you are a true Codepebdent Empath “thank you for the thank you ” hahaha. Funny how we are both Codepebdent but I’m a different flavor than you.

      1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


        It’s nice to not be all alone in my Codependency 😊. Glad you understand! I did not realize I made a Codependent statement, but that’s cool to get your insight in saying that I did. It helps me to understand myself better.

        I thought I was also a Super DUPER Empath, too, but HG said they cannot coexist together. But, I am so raw to everyone else’s feelings, and despite everything, I do not break that easily. I have a tough spirit.

      2. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        I cannot tell if I already replied to your comment, or not, Lori. But, I meant to!

      3. Nika - Survival says:


        Yes! Plus we are safe from HG bcuz he is not challenged enough by, we, Codependents. I hope I am, indeed, not wrong about not being a Super Nova Empath. Of course, no SE, here, are of interest to his cravings, anyway, because we are all merely on the lowest end of the totem pole. Sometimes good things can be found down there, though.

  15. DebbieWolf says:


    (the usual reply button missing again.. hence here)
    Groundhog Day with the reply button comments..lol.

    Thank you for comment. Really kind.
    You are right..I truely felt horrid about my thoughts.

    I have loved Narcsite. It has helped me tremendously.

    Personally at one point I became a bit addicted and obsessively Reading but I do believe it was like taking an intensive course.. it’s definitely worth investing the time to read and learn.

    Later on after posting I thought about how I probably won’t disappear or anything.. I wouldn’t be that hard on anybody else I think, so why I have to think bad of myself to that extent was going a bit over the top!!

    But aside from that, there comes a point when if you’re reading incessantly when you’ve passed a certain point then it becomes slightly unhealthy to concentrate so intently as I have been doing on npd.

    However I also think it is important to help others see that you do get through the worst and offer some comfort and support where possible.

    I know how it feels when a person can read a post that just hits the spot on a day when everything felt so hopeless because I’ve been in that position and hung onto someone else’s words.

    I’m not suggesting anybody is doing that with my posts but at least people can see that from a position of absolute disbelief and shock that you can get through it to the other side.

    There comes a time when everyone must move on.. nevertheless I’m not going too far away..

    I feel a great deal of affection for many of you.. that will never change.

    Some of us will always carry a little piece of each other in our hearts.. as we send love out in the ether and good thoughts on any given day and hope how the others fare. we all really have shared some very painful experiences and have it in common.

    I don’t believe it is possible that any of us would not remember each other as our lives change, we will always remember the time we spent on narcsite however long it ends up being.

    I wouldn’t trade being an empath for anything in this world.

    We sure have gold when we can feel the care and sincere good from each other.

    I always say how I unsubscribe from comments after a few days and especially when threads become very long simply because I access all of this via my mobile phone.
    the alerts become unmanageable so I don’t subscribe for very long but still try to keep up I may miss posts as well because of the way it loads up..

    Also the autocorrect is possessed.
    It is switched off but it doesnt know!
    Wrestling the thing as we speak!!
    Less a case of Artificial Intelligence and more a case of Artificial Fuckery.

    Huh..apt catchphrase that..
    Artificial Fuckery.
    Good name for a book!!!

    1. windstorm says:

      Sorry to hear you’re going away, but glad it’s not far. I’ll certainly always remember you and tryout little 🐾 😊

      I do everything with my phone too and it can seem overwhelming. I woke up this morning to 86 new emails from Knowing the Narcissist!

      Best of luck and hope to hear from you again.
      Your friend,

      1. DebbieWolf says:

        Dearest Windstorm

        Much love and warm smile.❤️💞 Not going away..just being a dip in and outer for a while.
        My heart carries good and caring feelings every day for all tbe precious people here.
        Every day..Every day.
        My little paws to tread nearby..
        Sincerely, DebbieW🐾

      2. Morning sun says:

        I feel the same way. I come back here when I feel I need it. My interaction has mostly been intellectual or self-analytical here anyway, so it’s not a great loss for the ‘community’ that’s developed around the blog.

        There comes a time to move on, back into the real world, away fromthe constant reminders of our experiences with narcs and narcissism. I’m glad that some stick around, it makes this a nicer place to pop back into – thank you!

    2. SMH says:

      I am sorry to hear you are going too, DebbieWolf, but I totally understand. I should go too. I don’t need to be here anymore. But I now use it to procrastinate and I use it only on my computer so I don’t see it unless I go into my fake email! Good luck! xx

      1. DebbieWolf says:


        Thank you… as you may have read, not going far.. just not concentrating on it as much as I have. (Also having difficulity loading this long thread on my phone.. taking an eternity then some things are missing. I was going to set up a wordpress because cannot press like buttons.. but it isnt working out so far.. lol)
        I am doing this from work.. oh the joy of the keyboard and not the awkwardness of the phone… haha.

    3. K says:

      When a new poll or article comes up, just allow yourself to be hoovered back into the narcissistic cycle. Besides, that is how you keep up on the narc lessons.

      I am not going to write goodbye, so catch you on the flip side.

      1. DebbieWolf says:

        Aye…no goodbyes x

    4. Valkyrie says:

      DebbieWolf, I definitely hear you about the addictive side of this blog. It’s nice to finally figure out that you are not crazy and what you have been experiencing has a name. I am trying to absorb as much knowledge as I can you have very much appreciated and learned from everyone here.

      I’m fairly new to the site, but I do feel that I will too have to step away sometime…and maybe come back periodically.

      Hopefully we will see you around and your recovery is strong. I definitely agree with you that we bring each other up on bad days and caring about each other is gold.

      Hahaha…the long posts…i am sad when I can’t read everything.

      Hugs and love! ❤Valk

      1. DebbieWolf says:


        Me too.. haha the long threads.. I love ’em but difficulty loading on the phone. At work at mo, managing to dip in briefly with the joy of the keyboard!.. Hey,.. hugs to you too. I am not going far.

    5. Jasmine says:


      Awe sorry to see you go, I really enjoy your posts. (I just got back in myself -got locked out for 6 months) but i totally understand 😊
      Little birdies gotta fly!
      Come visit us in the Tudor dungeon 😉

      1. DebbieWolf says:


        Thank you💞
        Will do.

    6. Lori says:

      You are absolutely correct. Narcissism is a fascinating subject however it isn’t good or healthy imo to be one these sites for years. There comes a point when you have to move on from it and that usually does happen once there’s been a solid period of no contact and or you move on with someone else. This sites usually help the fill the hole and void that the Narc left. What happens is these pages in essence become a way for you to stay connected to the Narc and I say if you are still frequently coming to these pages years later you have something that needs addressing. Just my opinion.

  16. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

    I do not know my IQ, and I cannot figure out how to find such a test. I am an INFP, though.

    1. SMH says:


      I do not know my IQ either but I also have several Ivy League degrees, awards and more! It is irrelevant. IQ tests were developed in the context of eugenics, to ‘weed out’ those deemed on average less intelligent. In the US at the time, those ‘undesirables’ would have been black people. Hitler apparently banned IQ tests because they showed that Jews were on average more intelligent than ‘white’ Germans. IQ/intelligence is still used by racists (e.g. Charles Murray) to claim that some people are innately inferior to others. Like everything else human beings do, IQ is a construct – it is not real and it is used to further other agendas.

      How ‘Harvard’ could have degrees from Harvard and believe that her IQ matters is beyond me…she clearly does not have an Ivy League degree or she would know this.

      1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        I just don’t have street-smarts or common sense, like others do. My environment in which I grew up radically hindered this because I stayed hidden, away from the rest of the world.

        I am learning common sense, though. But, street-smarts are being learned, by me, the hard way, unfortunately.

        1. SMH says:

          Nika, hun, Commonsense and street smarts are good to have and can protect you from any number of things, but they can’t protect you from a narc. I am way more street smart than my narc but that kind of smart didn’t come in handy. The only thing that can protect you is learning how a narc thinks. Don’t worry about what you think are your faults. Focus on your learning!

        2. IdaNoe says:

          Nika, I’m sorry to horn in. May I ask, are you in the U.S.? Reason I ask is I’ve never been out of the U.S. but I have street smarts for this country.

          Number one rule for street smarts – No one is your friend. Everybody is a potential threat until absolutely proven otherwise. They will con you, cheat you, rob you, deceive you. Trust is earned, not given freely.

          Be prepared. Don’t run out of gas. Don’t walk in dark areas. Keys in hand as you walk. Head up, shoulders back- looking around. See everything, everyone. If you’re distracted or oblivious you’re making yourself an easy target. Who’s noticing you? Do they make eye contact? Past a 1 second count and they are too interested, sizing you up. Walk faster, cross the street, get away from them. Did they smile? Just because they smile doesn’t mean they’re safe. Human predators often smile and appear friendly to drop your guard. Look under, around and in your car before getting in. If someone begins to follow you, in car or walking, NEVER EVER GO HOME! You just showed them where you live. Go for light, people and if possible the police. If someone trys to get in your car or grab you, DONT GO WITH THEM! FIGHT! Once a predator moves you, they have you and no one knows where to look for you. Make your stand right there. Fight, claw, bite, scream. Dont kick them in the nuts, some men it just pisses them off. Go for the throat. Hit that Adam’s Apple hard. He who controls the breathing, controls the fight. If they’re down, keep kicking them . Dont ever let them get up, ever!
          Many things can be used as a weapon: a pencil, pen, keys, a rolled up newspaper, your sock with a rock, you fingernails, you teeth, hairspray, a hot cup of coffee, a tumbler or thermos, the heel of your shoe-down the shin onto the top of the arch, hard , a forearm strike to the side of the neck-hard, finger in the corners of the eyes- push in hard and curl around, pop that eye out if possible, strike across the bridge of the nose, finger in the jugular notch- dig down and push down and back hard. If someone grabs you from behind, step backward into them, heel down the shin. You’re aiming to get them off balance.
          Dont give out your personal information. If it sounds too good to be true, it is!
          Hope these help!

      2. Pale Horse says:

        I don’t know my IQ either and I hold a doctorate. But all that “intelligence” couldn’t save me from my entanglement and there was a point where I would have given up my degree if it meant the pain of the disengagement would have went away.

      3. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        SMH & IdaNoe,

        This is the only Reply button I found, but I wanted to let you know that I just now saw your comments directed at me, and I am grateful, and I responded to both of you just a few minutes ago… somewhere on this thread. I found a Reply Button under HG Tudor’s name, and there is where I responded to both, SMH & IdaNoe.

        WordPress is not notifying me of my comments! I have to find them myself, and I cannot even remember where my own comments are in order to look for replies that I should answer. Sorry about that.

        WTF, WordPress???

  17. Renarde says:

    I personally have zero idea what my IQ is and neither do I care. I will assert though that a SE will tend to pick up the Greaters but then again, I have experienced all schools depending on where I am emotionally in my life.

    Becoming weaponised for me, meant that the more clumsy attempts at the unevolved trying to find a way in are far more easily rebuffed so it’s entirely possible a SE could pick up multiple G’s. Indeed, it often explains why some men (pre-weap) would get all interested then just very quickly back off. They had sensed something and weighed up the pros and cons before deciding – not worth the effort. At the time, I thought there was something wrong with me and it damaged my already fragile self-esteem.

    This has even extended to dates. I can think of two where it became rapidly and blatantly obvious that they were not there in order to start the process of ‘dating’ but they were there because they were curious about me. In the first instance, I told him straight that his behaviour made me feel as if I was a zoo animal. The second came post weaponisation and I suspected he might well pull that trick. He did.

    As to the intelligent becoming ensnared? One Middle said, it’s always the most intelligent ones that are the easiest to get. I puzzled over this comment for a long time. Still no idea why…

    1. Bubbles🍾 says:

      Dear dear Renarde,
      You are too kind
      Humble thanks my lovely 😌…. I’m blushing

      I think I was a “match” with the weasel …he was a mid …
      I felt he tested me as to how far I could be pushed til I reached his safe word “fluggaenkoechicebolsen” ….. 😂 ….thank goodness I never had to use it …. I was “intelligent” enough to say GOSO (so much easer to say) 🤣
      Our greater friend still tries to test me … I play “dumb” now 😂😂…I’m just no fun anymore

      I’m concerned we’ve lost dear Harvard … I’m really hope she reconsiders … she’s hurting terribly …. I can feel it …. as with others here
      It’s good to have friends to talk to about our narcs however it’s too close to look from the outside in and be objective
      Here on this blog all you lovelies provide uniqueness from every aspect … it’s a huge learning experience and connection …. I learn and am enriched every day … eg molten brown😝
      especially by Mr Tudor, who keeps it real succinct and to the point …no wrapping in “fluffy bums” from him …😂
      Please Harvard… you are loved needed and wanted …what more can I say ….. except from the movie “Titanic”
      “Come back”
      Luv hugs n kisses
      Bubbles xx

      1. Pale Horse says:

        Yes. Molten Brown! Fantastic stuff!!

      2. Renarde says:

        Aww thank you! Too kind and my pleasure. We need more people like you in the world. Weaponised Empaths who ‘get it’ but dont let is ‘get at them’.

        As to Harvard; unless I am mistaken, loks she has departed. That’s a pity as I find this board one of (ironically) the most peaceful on the net. I fear she will struggle is she engages with the ones that are not waponised.


  18. Mercy says:

    For the record I didn’t think Harvard was hitting on HG, I thought she was hitting on Dr Q…I know nothing haha.

    But holy narcissist those claws came out from some readers when new girl got a little HG attention…. Entertained!

    1. DoForLuv says:

      Haha !
      I think it just came off a littlebit weird to some Idk

      But maybe it was just her way of looking at her situation and kind ashamed inside that with what ever intelligence she has fell victim .

      I felt like my ex was insulting my intelligence all the time made me feel some type of way .

      1. IdaNoe says:

        DoForLuv, howdy! Ok so I’m weird and many other colorful adjectives too. The point was that she presented generally what many perceive as the perfect woman. Is she? Who knows, who cares. We’re all in the same boat, we got conned by narcissists. However there were comments after her post that upset me greatly. I my have interpreted them incorrectly, but I felt some were feeling intimidated, insecure and unworthy because of how she presented herself. There’s a difference in saying, “wow I aced my exam or I finished my marathon with my best time, I’m so happy!” and peacocking. Maybe she meant it that way, maybe she didn’t. But what ever the case, its dangerous for anyone to feel small and unworthy of help. It makes people feel like there’s no hope. What I said, while I see was presented in a shitty manner, was meant to back off the peacocking and posturing. It’s a bulldog tactic. If you dont know what it is bite it, shake it and see if it reveals itself. What I replied to her last post is how I feel. I will give her the benefit of the doubt because she seemed sincere and if she is and wants help, I will do what I can to help her, support her, encourage her. I’ve received that here and I will pay it forward to the best of my ability. If she isn’t, that will show itself in time. The line has been drawn, several have extended their hand to her sincerely, it’s her decision to make now.

      2. DoForLuv says:

        Idanoe I understand what you trying to explain to me . Tbh I didn’t read her comments and everyone’s comments they were all a bit long . I just scrolled and picked up a few back and forth convo’s.

        Mercy comment just made me laugh .I don’t understand why she put it out like that but its just her perspective .I’am just being neutral . And Try to take nothing what would make me feel negative personal .

        I support everyone’s growth freedom and stability in life again

        Nobodys is perfect and life would’ve been
        boring if we was .

        Much love to you 🙂

      3. DoForLuv says:

        Idanoe I didn’t mean you or the others were acting weird . I just meant to say Havards view and explanation was just so different as how the most off us would do Maybe . No drama no insults I didn’t mean no Harm or negativity at all

        1. IdaNoe says:

          Oops sorry, I thought you were addressing me. No need to apologize, I did not take it in a derogatory manner.

      4. DoForLuv says:

        Ok I’m happy everything is clear to you IdaNoe . I’am the last person who would judge anyone here . You all give me energy and I sincerely wish you all and everyone else on this planet well . I’m still in my twenties trying to make sense off all this what happend to me and to you all and unkown people going trough it . I just don’t have so much time I work go to school and have lil kids to read and support everyone as much as I wish. And my native language isn’t english . But I know we all going to be alright .

    2. Bubbles🍾 says:

      Dearest Mercy,
      I believe we are “all on guard” “all on edge” “all eagle eyes” “all on tenter hooks ” …..no matter who it is

      Our castle is guarded with arrows ready to fly, the draw bridge is up, the crocodiles swimming in the moat are hungry, the cauldrons filled hot oil tilted slightly in preparation

      Who goes there ? Friend or foe ? You cannot pass until you tell me the password

      This is what narcisstic abuse does to us
      Luv Bubbles xx

      1. Mercy says:

        Aww Bubbles your comments always make me smile. You are a breath of fresh air.

      2. Jasmine says:

        💞 beautiful

        (Sorry, “like” broken. WordPress=😒)

  19. DoForLuv says:

    I do believe everyone who visits this blog/reads/consult with HG has a certain level of intelligence , but the emotional intelligence is why the narcissist targets us to begin with .

    I can understand if you are functioning in wealthier groups you’ll will meet the Greaters more often . Its still all just Facade Any way….

    The intelligence will only help you understand .

  20. DoForLuv says:

    Idk why🤷🏽‍♀️ . He always stays around Idont have to be perfect and worry that I would disappoint him because no matter what I always will in his eyes . I felt like just settle for less you’ll never meet a normal one any way .

    He tricked me into loving him but I never loved him .

    Now I do think I’ll meet someone better just got to work on my unstable emotional personality.

  21. DF says:

    The main reason why I still think about the narcissist so much is because I think of the phenomenon called narcissism so much. I am suspecting that the overall importance of narcissism for our society is seriously underrated. Understanding the reality of narcissism has profoundly changed my life. (I checked the box that says “I am owed money”, it is not wrong, but it is not the main reason, I just checked it in order to technically be able to comment.)
    As of today, I have been able to identify five narcissists who played major roles in my life and a few who played minor roles. Family members, male intimate partners, female friends (back then I believed they were friends), coworkers. By now I can associate almost every incomprehensible yet devastating interpersonal experience with one of the several forms of narcissism (or “schools and cadres”). I can even see how my contact with narcissists made my life in general much more miserable and confusing than it ought to have been.
    My epiphany concerning narcissism was “my” somatic narcissist lover I spent time with for a few months about two years ago who exhibited the disorder in a fashion so pure and clear that I was finally able to discern the pattern by thinking and researching.
    The experience with that person helped me improve my life because I finally found the weapons against his kind. This is the second reason for thinking. I am sparring with these people or identifying them and going over the techniques, strategies, tactics again and again.
    Unfortunately, I have not yet been able to form an equally strong bond to another person. When I was young I could detach rather easily, within weeks. Now that I am in the second half of my life I find that getting rid of tender and passionate feelings towards a man I have attached to has become very difficult. I guess this has hormonal causes but I don’t know exactly how it works. That is reason number three.
    Kind regards to all of you

  22. Nika - Survival says:

    In answer to the question, I keep thinking that if I do something differently, or try harder, he will love me, again, like he used to. It’s difficult to let go of that hope because it was such an extraordinary love (the Love Bombing).

    It seemed so real, and I have trouble comprehending that it was not true love. It was just a game to him. But, I can’t seem to get my heart and my mind to coincide on this truth.

    As a matter of fact, he only continues to get meaner and colder, like dry-ice, with each passing day. Still, all I can remember is that shimmering Phase that was once so beautifully Golden.

    I was spoiled by the riches of his Love Bombing, and now have to face my existence in the poverty of its absence.

    It seems like a tedious chore to go on living despite being separated from such a breathtaking dream. I have to keep reminding myself why I want to live.

    1. wissh says:

      Immersing myself in research helped me out of the phase you are in. I started with the 15 books by other authors, but have since then only read HG’s books, one after another, and I’m still at it, but I must say, the lightbulb FINALLY went on. Good luck in your healing, I know it’s dreadfully difficult.

      1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        Thank you, Wissh On. Yes, it is dreadfully difficult. It is not the Hoovering Sergeant, Somatic Narcissist… I ‘nothing’ him. It is also not the other Narcissist who also entangled me with his Enabler. I ‘nothing’ him, too (sorry, Narcissist). It is also not the Histrionic Narcissist. That is a third ‘nothing’ for me.

        It is another one! I feel that the only way that I can get to the point of ever possibly ‘nothing-ing’ him would be to find another true-love!

        Yes, I study, and research. But, I also do many other things in order to keep my thoughts off of him.

        Still, he drenches my thoughts. It is like trying to keep liquified Jasmine or Wisteria from seeping through an ultra sheer garment. It seems to be a wholly unattainable goal, at the moment. Maybe tomorrow will be different.

        Thank you, Wissh On, so much. 🌸

      2. wissh says:

        I get it. I’ve only had one narc, that I know of, and only for a year, and I’m still in the learning, gathering resources, and building strength phase. I know who he is now, I get it, I don’t want him back and luckily live too far away for that to happen anyway. And yet, I continue to spend an inordinate amount of my day thinking about him. Dammit.

    2. Valkyrie says:

      Nika, yes! And to add, I also do the “some of it had to be real right?” thinking.

      I had trouble adjusting after the golden period. It was really spectacular. But really it wasn’t all exactly great. He didn’t have much of a sense of humor. I caught him in a few lies at first. Then sometimes he would tell me to shut the f*** up or call me a b****.

      Remembering the bad times helps me get through. I focus on his behavior that was disrespectful or wasn’t “dream-like.”

      I still don’t understand why they cannot just be themselves. No one is perfect. We all put extra effort in sometimes to show love. And we also have horrible thoughts sometimes about others. But I work really hard on focusing on the good in people. Life is an ugly, messy, beautiful, miracle and I feel bad that narcs are in pain.

      People hurt other people for all kinds of reasons. My focus is trying to help those I can and learn more/different ways to help, while also understanding my behavior and how it causes harm, so I can alter it accordingly.

      1. windstorm says:

        I have spent much of my life with narcissists who were just being themselves. They tend to be inconsiderate, thoughtless, unsupportive and openly disregard and ridicule the feelings of those around them. When the narcs are ignoring, ghosting, abusing and obviously pursuing others for fuel, they ARE being themselves. I’d say they don’t act like their true selves when trying to get someone to spend time with them because it wouldn’t work and they’ve figured that out. Once you’ve been devalued, then you’re seeing the real narc.

      2. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        Thank you, Valkyrie. I appreciate your very helpful comment, and I think your goals are wonderful.


      3. Valkyrie says:

        I agree with you windstorm, that is a good point about hiding their behavior (the mask). I guess my point is that if we all acted on our impulses, the nasty ones, we would all be hurting each other. People sometimes make a conscious effort to self-reflect and understand how our behavior hurts others. I guess I wonder if narcs are incapable of doing this or can they learn empathy?

        I know narcs are low to no empathy. Can it be learned? I have read about cerebral empathy.

        How much of their behavior can be controlled? There are a lot of disorders (NPD, ODD, etc.) and techniques to adjust behavior. The most effective being those that involve compassion.

        How do we help? And importantly too, how do we protect ourselves?

        1. windstorm says:

          Based on my experience with narcs, it depends on their intelligence and need. No, you can’t learn true empathy. It’s like seeing colors. You either can see red and green or you can’t. You can be partially color-blind like you can have low empathy. But you can’t change.

          That said, you can learn cognitive empathy, but it requires thought first and is imperfect. I think it’s comparable to my little colorblind grandson. Red and green are identical shades of grey to him, but he has learned to identify orange, pink and purple. But when he sees “orange”, to him it is yellow mixed with grey. He understands that everyone calls grey-yellow “orange” and grey-blue “purple,” He can identify them in a box of crayons, but he will never truly understand what the rest of us really see. Same way with cognitive empathy. Smart narcs learn from other people’s reactions how to identify and use emotions, but they will never feel them or really understand them.

          I don’t think we can help narcs to change their behavior. No one can “fix” another. Change has to come from within. For a person to change, they have to want to change. Then they have to be willing to put out the effort needed to change. No one can do that for them.

          1. MB says:

            WS, I love the color blindness analogy. You described cognitively empathy beautifully.

      4. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


        Making a conscience effort to remember the “bad times” does help a lot, while not remembering solely those memories made up of dazzling, Golden sparkles which desire to dance upon my thoughts. I am sorry, but when I think of the Golden Phase, all I can seem to do is to write about it in the poetic essence that captivated me so! It helps me to describe it better!

      5. Valkyrie says:

        Thank you windstorm, good analogy ☺

      6. Valkyrie says:

        Nika, I am right there with you. It is a process and it takes time. Focus on healing. I wish you well in your recovery. After a few years I usually look back and wonder “what I was thinking?” I don’t feel the pull after a while.

        I just have to make sure I don’t get attached to anyone romantically who will abuse me.

        Love & hugs ❤Valk

      7. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


        Thank you for your reply 🎀

  23. Lori says:

    Hmmm well this was an interesting thread. First let me say you cannot asses anyone’s intelligence from comments on a blog or even the way they text. I am terrible with text. I don’t use punctuation and don’t have patience to correct my typos. I’m formally educated ha r several professional designations yet I work below my potential and I’ve chosen to do so. Mr. Lesser on the other hand cannot stand if someone doesn’t use the proper grammar or punctuation and guess what ? He’s a high school drop out. I’ve found that he likes to educate himself on a particular topic and then likes display “Intellect” truth is he is really dumb as a box of rocks he’s just learned to hide it well

    I think what you’ll find is when you see people here that are appearing to toot their own horn so to speak it is because they have been ripped to shreds by the Narc and have begun to doubt their own strengths, abilities and intelligence and it’s a way of reassuring themselves

    1. Lori says:

      Oops asess not asses Freudian slip I guess Ahahaha

    2. Bubbles🍾 says:

      Dearest Lori,
      “Ripped to shreds by the Narc and have begun to doubt their own strengths, abilities and intelligence and it’s a way of reassuring themselves”
      We are all vulnerable, no matter who we are
      Loving one another is what we need
      Thank you my lovely
      Luv Bubbles xx

      1. Lori says:

        You’re welcome. The dumbest lesser can rip to shreds the brightest. You don’t have to be intelligent to do that. It’s not skil or intelligence. It’s pathology

      2. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        Ha haha, Lori

    3. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


      This is a wise comment from you.

  24. TrueEmpath says:

    Two narc exes in ‘cahoots” have convinced court, psych services and social services that I’m not aware I’m becoming unwell.. All because I woke up to the situation, became empowered and rescued our son from abuse (the father having blackmailed me to sign guardianship to the other narc – an ex girlfriend! .. Awake and aware now! Would completely walk away but for the neglect towards our child in his (and their) care . Child is non verbal.. Court again this week.. Meditation self love abs cord cutting keeps me calm and sane. How to retrieve child expediently?

    1. Perse says:

      I hope you have a good lawyer who knows how to deal with narcissistic opponents.

      ‘How to retrieve child expediently?’ Quickly, and illegally, and I don’t recommend it unless you have unlimited resources and are able to hide successfully and indefinitely.

      I suggest you gather all your info together and consult with HG. If I were in your situation, I’d ask HG if there is a way to convince them having the child is not in their best interest.

      I wish you and your child the best of luck.


  25. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Could you “please explain” from your expertise perspective what’s happened here regarding the interactional behavioural discussions here
    I have my thoughts ….. but I’d like yours … if you’d be so kind

    Thank you
    Luv Bubbles xx

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Could you be specific with regard to what you are referring to?

      1. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        All good, your troops have come to your rescue … please “carry on”… defending the realm 😂
        Luv Bubbles xx

      2. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        IdaNoe & SMH,

        WordPress is not notifying me of my comments which is really frustrating. I just came here to check something out and saw you two left comments for me. Had I not checked on here, manually, I would have never known!

        So, I am sorry if I am not answering or replying to comments that might be asked of me, but I am not even being made aware of most of them.

        Thank you for your replies and comments directed toward me.

        IdaNoe, thank you so much for your thoughtful comment on how I might better protect myself on the streets due to my lack of street smarts. I really appreciate it.

        I get into a lot of trouble out there, and I honestly do not mean to, but I just do not know about normal ways of how things are supposed to be. I mean, I am learning all the time, but there is still much that is obscure to me.

        People just think that I am eccentric, different, or “WTF???” (Or, they laugh about things I say, but I am not sure why the thing I have said is so funny). I get this all the time, so then I, myself, realize I must be “off”, again, on what should be a normal behavior.

        Strangely, everyone, including all the Narcissists I have been entangled with have each said to the effect, “I fear for you out there in this world. You need someone to protect you. There’s a lot of really bad people out there, and you’re way too naive.” (Ya, them…they were the “bad people” out there)!! But, non-Narcissists say this to me, too.

        So, thank you for your help. ♥️ Sorry to anyone I have not answered as I simply am not getting notified.

        1. IdaNoe says:

          Nika, it’s ok to be weird! I promise you, everyone is weird in their own way. And anyone who tells you their not insecure is lying. Everyone has something their afraid of, they just won’t admit it. Everyone has felt helpless and vulnerable at one time or another. As for understanding people, if you can remember one simple rule, it will help. Everyone has an ulterior motive for what they do, if you can understand what it is, you can understand them better. Not all ulterior motives are bad. Let me use Windstorm as an example, I dont think she’ll mind. She already has dealt with her narc, so why does she hang out here? I believe her ulterior motive is because she enjoys helping people, sharing the knowledge she has gained. Sharing makes her feel good, useful and valuable that’s her driving force. No one does anything without a reason, even if they don’t know why they do it, there’s still a reason. Find the reason and you’ll find what drives them. Does it make them feel good? Do they need fuel? Self validation? Attention? Are they predatory and looking for an easy victim? Most criminals are not brain surgeons. They’re lazy, they’re looking for an easy target. Few actually stalk their victims, if their victims are strangers. Stalking happens with familiarity most of the time. So dont be an easy target. Be alert, be wary, and even if you’re afraid, dont show it. Control your reaction. Don’t act predictably. Be unpredictable. Don’t react they way they expect. Keep your cool and keep your mind clear. Keep thinking. They’ll make a mistake, let their guard down or have a moment of doubt, that’s your moment to strike. Watch their eyes and micro expressions, most people will show you their intent and how committed they really are. You just have to learn to read them. Google reading body language. It will help. People are animals too. Just as you can learn to read a dogs body language, you can learn to read people too.

          1. windstorm says:

            The only thing I would dispute about what you said is that I don’t believe everyone has an “ulterior” motive. That sounds too much like my Pretzel MnM saying everyone has a “hidden agenda.” Some people really are upfront about their purpose.

            Your deduction about me enjoying being helpful is part of my reason for being here. More importantly I want to pay it forward for the way I was helped and taught about abuse many years ago. Like how people with sober husbands still go to AlAnon meetings to share their knowledge. There is also the fact that I live alone and avoid people out of fear. Talking to you all I will never meet helps combat my loneliness and human desire for social interaction.

            However, I do not hide any of these things. No one has to surreptitiously observe me to figure them out. While I won’t claim to never having a hidden agenda, it’s a very rare thing. And I am not an anomaly. Often I believe we think people have hidden agendas because we are so busy with our own thoughts that we just haven’t really listened to other people. Too often we are guilty of assigning our own preconceived ideas and opinions to other people rather than actually observing and listening to them. But just because we didn’t notice or understand something about another person doesn’t mean that they were hiding it or had an ulterior motive.

          2. IdaNoe says:

            Howdy Windstorm, you made excellent points! I didn’t mean ulterior motives in a bad way necessarily. I should have used the term driving force, it doesn’t sound so sinister. So no harm meant. Nika was saying she has no street smarts, I was say that while not all peoples ” driving force” is bad or sinister, some people’s are. I guess that’s why were all here. Anyway, the point was if you consider people’s possible driving force, especially when walking alone in the dark, its safer to consider them a potential threat until proven otherwise. Thanks for your input , its always very enlightening! You’re so smart and evolved.

          3. windstorm says:


            I’m glad you didn’t mind my disagreement with the term “ulterior.” I completely agree with “better safe than sorry.” Narcs, as we all are learning, often do have an ulterior motive. I agree we need to always be on guard until we’re sure about a person. Even then we should always listen to our inner narc alarm. Even empathic people have narc traits and can occasionally hurt us on purpose. I do think it is sad though to consider everyone a potential threat. But then, life is often sad.

            I also totally agree with your saying don’t worry about being “weird.” I’ve been what normal people call weird all my life. I consider it “many faceted.” “Weird” people keep life from being boring. We challenge the status quo and make people think. That’s a good thing. I have always been proud to be different. I don’t know about smart and evolved. That would be nice, but probably strange and unusual is more accurate. Lol!

          4. IdaNoe says:

            Windstorm- nope we’re good. I have strong opinions and am sometimes very harsh, even when I don’t mean to be. Hubby works on me all the time about it. He’s very diplomatic ( my opposite!). I like it when people counter my opinion or thoughts, it’s how I learn. It opens my mind. I especially like reading your thoughts because we are so very different.  You are very kind. I’m abrasive and I know it. I put people off even when I’m being nice. My ex narc used to tell me, ” I said smile not bear your teeth. ” Its how I was raised. Not an excuse, but a work in progress.
            Yes, unfortunately the world can be very hard and mean. I sincerely hope others will comment and give Nika ideas on how to stay safe on the world too. I know how to fight because I had to, that might not work for her. So I was hoping to open a conversation where others might chime in with other ideas for her. Feeling unsafe just sucks.
            Yes many have narc traits. I have many myself. And much anger, frustration and resentment. Unlearning a lifetime of crap will be the hardest thing, I think.  Hubby is a strong man, with a fair mind. He challenges me often. We have epic moral and ethical debates!
            No I think smart and evolved fit very nicely!

        2. IdaNoe says:

          Nika, BTW what’s my driver for commenting on your post? Fear, obligation, guilt/shame, . I understand being afraid and feeling unprotected. I was my mother’s tool. She quite frequently would lend me out to people. So I developed a sense of obligation to help people when I can. I would feel guilt and or shame if you did a follow up post on being harmed and I had not shared what I learned. Also, I would feel joy and pride if I helped you. I need to feel useful.

  26. Harvard (TMM) says:

    Perhaps there is some lesson for me here, as well.
    I am not the most socially adept. There are intricacies of communication I do not always learn, but I do watch and absorb some of what is around me.

    I have no desire to ‘bait’ anyone.
    I’m not Dr. Q. Not even close.
    SixTwo757 was a profile from logging in on my phone- didn’t mean to make 2 there— but since the speculation I’m multiple people has cropped up; I’ll own that one. I live in Virginia.

    My first Narc was when I was 20- High mid-range and violent (found that out later). Married him in a matter of months. Had a child. Divorced him. It’s 25 years later and he’s still a thorn in my side. My second marriage- also a Narc….I can’t talk about him. That was 11 years ago. Next Narc was 6 years ago. He pops up and hoovers regularly- but he’s elite and cerebral more than anything. Sex, he’ll take it or leave it in small doses.

    I met Cockwaffle this year after a long time alone, and fell hard, and that is where I am now. So I’ve gone YEARS between them where I haven’t allowed anyone in.

    Cockwaffle was indeed golden. So golden. Couldn’t have been more perfect for a while. We could talk. Oh, he makes me laugh. Sex was great, and plentiful. Felt like everything I had hoped for. From the first time we met– and there wasn’t much lead up to it, so it wasn’t that he groomed me for weeks— we met in person within a day of meeting online. Didn’t even tell him my full name until we’d gone out a few times.
    I was around his house, his son, his coworkers, everything.

    Then out of nowhere he ghosted on me, and because I didn’t want to ruin it, I didn’t chase him. I think that was a test. I failed it. So he found another target- but yet when he reconnected with me stating he had been busy, I just went with it. I now know he had hoovered me back, too.

    Then he had two of us going. Her during the day, and me at night. He almost alternated weekends. He had others in there….but he kept things pretty separate for a while. I hadn’t seen his true intentions— he started the ‘we’ talk- and got our kids involved. My daughter, and his son.

    I wound up having the kids a lot, together. The two kids are close in age (high school) and they hit it off and started dating. This complicated things on a second level when I started to suspect Cockwaffle was juggling women – I was out with the kids, and he, was playing.

    I kept my mouth shut as I didn’t want to hurt my daughter, and hoped it was just my old insecurity from past relationships. Unfortunately not. I caught him red-handed. I came home with the kids early- and there they were. I just kept quiet and let it unfold. It was hard. She had no idea who I was.

    Then, in a brazen move; he tried to get the two of us together and get a threesome going. Telling her I wanted to, and telling me she wanted to- when in reality neither of us did— he wanted to. He really pulled out all the stops…..and yet shot himself in the foot- as she and I started talking.

    Come to find out; there’s AT LEAST 3 other women involved as he was triangulating and prepping various sources….including his ex wife…..

    After a couple weeks of us all talking, piecing together the lies, stories and web of his behaviors, we group-interventioned Cockwaffle about all his lies. We confronted him together, where he walked in from a shopping trip to all of us in his house, in solidarity.

    As we sat there with him lying on top of other lies, I was patient, kept quiet, watched, listened and each of us could then keep him honest as our texts, pictures, and stories were too similar and could be matched up to nearly the hour where he had us crossing over one another.

    And, the coup: a third facet— I am pregnant, with twins. I dropped the bomb on him. I then got up and we all left him sitting there quietly on the couch alone.

    I have cut him out of my life, and have not had any contact with him in a few months. So I’m dealing with a lot- alone. But the other women he hurt have been there for me- we just all have questions. We all try to figure this out. We all are hurt. I’ve not given him anything- so he is smearing me that I am lying. That it’s fake. How I wish it was.

    I have said over and over lately; “you can’t google this.” because this situation is just too bizarre. However, I did google narc behavior and found HG’s work. It helped. I felt lights going on where I’d just had questions. It’s given me strength to keep the no contact even though every day it hurts and I have a reminder (or two) of this whole debacle. So I’m sharing what I learn here with the other women involved and we are all reading HG’s books.

    So….there you go. You wanted my vulnerability with no varnish, no grandstanding, no peacocking. I’m 45 and pregnant with twins by someone who shattered me after I finally, finally, FINALLY got to where I opened myself up to someone again. And I will not let him near me, ever.

    Given the venom I’ve read today for things I posted this week in my fascination and excitement of finding the site, the blog, comments, etc. I think I’ll just go back to what I was doing before— as if I want to be barbed and poked and sneered at— there are other options where my current state and vulnerability isn’t on display. You all have elements of yourself you show at first— and I didn’t judge any of you. I don’t have to justfy myself, my existence, or that I am indeed a high-level empath….because those who know me in person- know I am.

    HG- I was going to consult with you on all this (and I left a lot out here for brevity) and I may still do that as I unwind what all is going on….but, I’m just not up for being attacked and smeared here, too.

    I wish you all well.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I look forward to consulting with you at the appropriate time.

      1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        Me, too, at the appropriate time. Tomorrow when I wake up, I might very well be a Super Empath, if I am not already.

    2. Twilight says:


      I made a comment energy doesn’t lie, it never does. I was not calling you one of HGs kind, yet trying to make a point. Not all “energyworkers” can accurately discern, If you took it as such I want to apologise for this.

      I couldn’t place what it was about you that caught my attention. You have stated you live in Virginia, that has to be the why. I live in Virginia.

      I hope you find a reason to stay, yet what would be more important is to consult with HG on your situation.

      I wish you well on your journey.

    3. Getting There says:

      Harvard, I understand your desire to want to feel free to be vulnerable and share without worrying about negative comments from others; constructive comments are fine but not where you feel “smeared.” All who have been in a relationship with a narcissist understand that wish, and this place should definitely be the one place we can all go to and do so. Lori said it great in a comment that you cannot tell anything about a post. It is true. None of us know the other: we don’t know: if English is a first language; if someone is on the autism scale so communication may be different; if saying for the first time what happened is so freeing that it comes out wrong because it is the first time in years you realize you aren’t crazy; if a degree or a job is the only thing you are proud of yourself for and still cannot connect how you fell for it all knowing that those are your primary resources to use during the day; or the mere fact that this is a blog built on anonymity and we get snippets of each other based on a sentence to paragraphs. I have often wondered if I am in a restaurant or some place with someone who posts on here. There is so much we don’t know but what I have liked about this blog is that it is a place we can come for answers and to see we are not alone! I recommend it to so many people (to include strangers) for those two reasons. I get that there is such pain, from all the experiences, that many of us have our guards up and want safety. I get there may be MRN on here who feel like they were wronged. I am starting to think I am one, but that is a separate issue. The pain, the experience, the freedom of finding answers; those all make us react differently.
      Please don’t leave here. Please consult with HG if you feel that it is a good time for you. Please continue to work through your experiences (I also recommend therapy along with this blog). You are not just an alma mater or a job. You are you and you are a mom. Two amazing roles! you deserve the peace and having the strength. It is a struggle but it is a destination that you deserve to get.

      1. Renarde says:

        Echoing this. Narcsite is not normally like that (although have just come to this thread to read and haven’t yet read what it is you are referring to yet Harvard (TMM).

        What an awful situation to be caught up in Harvard regarding the N. How do you feel about being pregnant?

      2. Valkyrie says:

        Getting there, I second this and love everything you said.

        Harvard (TMM), Getting there expressed it very well. Hope to see you soon.

    4. DebbieWolf says:


      I am so sorry to read your story.
      and when you said you was pregnant with the twins… I cannot tell you how bad I felt for what you have gone through.

      I never commented on any of your posts and I admit that some of them I didn’t like them.

      I was quick to judge and form the wrong opinion. The fact that I never commented is irrelevant in my book.. I STILL JUDGED AND GOT EVERYTHING WRONG.

      I haven’t read everything not by far because I haven’t time to read the blog as intently as I used to.

      I also don’t think it’s healthy for me to constantly read as I am now trying to move forward.

      But this isn’t about me I wanted to say to you that I wish you well going forward
      .. so it might be likely that you might not see this post if you’ve already stopped Reading.

      I found your post heartbreaking.
      on so many levels.

      Heaven knows I truly wish you to find all you need going forward…

      and to all I say Farewell…

      For the time being, I don’t feel have anything useful to contribute based on the fact that I have jumped to such conclusions myself so quickly over somebody I didn’t even know.

      It doesn’t matter that I never said so it matters to me that that’s who I was in this instance…

      Take care.

      1. Valkyrie says:

        DebbieWolf, I have appreciated your posts as well.

        We all do it. Have erroneous thoughts or make statements we wish we could Go back and delete or alter in someway. Or wish what we meant in our heads is translated perfectly, but this is a complicated medium.

        Hope you come back and just wanted to let you know it was good reading your posts and comments. I wish you the best in your recovery and you need to do what feels right and best for you.

        Hugs and love ❤Valk

      2. Perse says:


        I find your posts to be inspiring and helpful. Others have said the same.
        I want you to know that.
        May you always feel you’ve taken more steps forward than back.
        I hope you will again grace this forum with you kind wisdom.


    5. MB says:

      TMM, I don’t know if you’ll see this but your post made me cry. You don’t owe me or anyone else an explanation, but that was truly a heartbreaking story. I am 45 and if I found out I was pregnant (much less with twins!), I would fling myself off the nearest bridge and I’m not even kidding. (And that’s if the father was my husband of 27 years.) Not a cockwaffle.

      My heart breaks that you were duped in such a horrendous way. It’s wonderful that you have such a support system of other victims for validation. At least you don’t have to doubt your own sanity through all of this.

      I’m so sorry that your experience here at narcsite got off on a bad note. What happened was certainly NOT the normal atmosphere here. As I said in another post, there are challenges with communication in this forum. You were hurting and you reached out as many here do, myself included. I was one of those that didn’t recognize your pain and for failing you, I am truly sorry. I’m in North Carolina. If I knew where you were in Virginia , I’d love to have a decaf cappuccino, talk and give you a big supportive hug.

      I hope you will reconsider your participation here as I know it will be a valuable resource and support in your healing despite your experience so far. I can certainly understand if you choose not to do so. I wish we could get a do-over. There are some very strong, very caring people here.

      I hope your babies are doing well, but please do not jeopardize your own health for this pregnancy. I know that may not be popular advice, but so be it.

    6. Mercy says:

      Havard, you will find that the long-timers (war vets as NarcAngel calls them) respectfully didn’t engage in the bashing. I have found that the education that HG give us is priceless and the support from the readers compliments his work making this the best therapy out there.

      You are right, you can’t Google this stuff. How exactly do you put into words the interaction with a narcissist. We all know how destructive it is, we just can’t express to our friends and family because they don’t get it even though they mean well. HG give us those words and we, the readers, finally have a avenue to express ourselves.

      Ok now your story…holy shit pregnant at 45…twins!!! I’m 45 and my jaw dropped when I read that. I recently had a pregnancy scare which added to my decision to go no contact. I couldn’t imagine having a child with my narc. But on a happy note, congratulations. It’ll be life changing experience but a very positive life change. My girls dad was horrible but they are fabulous in every way. Words I tell my girls when the going gets tough “as long as we have each other, we can make it through anything” and we have…And you will too!

      1. Jasmine says:

        (Tagging on Mercy’s lovely post)
        “But on a happy note, congratulations”

        Twins! What a pleasant note on this thread ☺

    7. tigerchelle78 says:


      I know you do not know me, nor I you. You do not have to respond either if you don’t feel up to it.

      After reading your comment, it brought me back to when I first entered here. I hate anyone in here feeling like they have been attacked. But I know the feeling well, as thats how I felt when I first came in. It put me off too, and I was upset about it. In time, I guess I got what they were seeing, or rather thought they saw or translated it as. On here its very easy to do so with the written word only. I also came in a bit like you. It took me a while to settle down. Please do not take to heart what anyone says.

      I hope though that you will be back in time. You have explained yourself well, not that you needed to justify yourself. In here, people can be a bit judgemental at times, or come out with snarky comments, although I don’t think they were meaning to be, its just their own hurts, insecurities and anger at their own situations coming to the fore. I do not think its fair. And we should give people a chance rather than jumping on them. It does seem to be a thing in groups of women.

      I perceived that you were hurt and broken underneath, and I don’t know why others did not see that. Sometimes you have to look at what a person doesn’t say I guess. Read between the lines. This is where my intelligence lies. You were coming across as very strong and capable, and yet nobody can possibly know what you are actually going through.
      I often sat typing comments with tears in my eyes, but you’d never think or know it.

      Even if someone does appear to be narc-like to us or from our perspective, and there are red flags that go up, I do wish everyone would not jump on the bandwagon and go on a narc attack. Just give the person the benefit of the doubt….until proven guilty kinda thing. Surely we would want the same thing ourselves. We are all here to learn not judge and attack each other. There is however much support here, and I’m sure you will find that eventually. I also hope you will benefit by a consultation with HG. I feel he will put your mind at ease.

      You seem like a strong, determined but understandably hurt person who has suffered much at the hands of abusers. I hope your pregnancy goes well, and that you will feel you can be welcome here for support just like anyone else here.

      Take care.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Wow. Have we met? It’s a nice message, but you make it sound that you did/do not participate in snarky comments or emotionally charged exchanges yourself depending on your mood. Its great if youve come to some understanding of yourself and your interaction here, but I’m not sure you should be tapping others on the nose like theyre bad puppies when you have engaged in the same thing you accuse others of. You know full well why you were addressed previously. There were plenty of witnesses and it is all here in print for anyone who cares to look. You are/were not a victim. Not in that way anyhow.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Oh go fuck yourself NarcAngel!!!! No honestly….Go get your vibrator out and make yourself feel better!!

          1. NarcAngel says:


            Ah……there you are.

          2. tigerchelle78 says:


            Actually here is where my reactive side comes out, where my rational mind disconnects for a time with my emotional mind. The bridge between them goes under repair. That’s what or rather who you see here. But that’s not me. Its a part of me I do not like. But have to live with unfortunately.

            But I apologise for my rudeness! I reacted and was triggerred by you (and I’m not the only one to have had problems with you) as I felt you were picking holes in my comment, when I was trying to empathize genuinely with TMM.

            I felt you had no right to do that. What was your purpose? Its like you just decided to bring up my faults and bad stuff I’ve done, and let’s face it, nobody likes that NA. Its not nice. I felt I was somewhat of a victim in here, and whether you say so or not, you cannot take that away from me as I know how I felt, but whatever the case, I certainly felt like you were trying to put me down deliberately. Could you not see that this was about TMM, and not me? But hey perhaps it unknowingly took peoples attention off of her a bit, and gave her a break.

            You feel to me like a teacher or parent saying: “now now, you know why you were addressed, it was because of this…… ”
            To me that’s how you often come across. Maybe not to others, but just from your words alone, you come across as like a strict disciplinarian type teacher, and always ready to see or pick up the bad in someone. How about you try and see the good? I think you are though really cool, witty, and fiesty, and at times I can see your empathy shine through.

            But because of your popularity in here, (obviously because you’ve been here much longer than I have) it seems that if a “lesser” (me) tries to explain or go says something that is different or that you see as not right…. its as if you have to show them their place.

            Maybe its the way I see things. Maybe I’m completely wrong. But I’m just saying how my view is. Maybe it will help you to understand me a bit better. I don’t know.

            However for the rude comment, I am sorry….

    8. Bubbles🍾 says:

      Dearest Harvard (TMM),
      To begin a journey, one must take the first step
      You have already begun my lovely and you’re not alone
      Please stay
      The support here is enormous … you haven’t met everyone yet
      I was attacked in the beginning but 3 years and counting I’m still here
      I love everyone here …. dare I say Mr Tudor as well … oops I just did 😝

      This site is the best ….the others are amateurs
      I personally would like to journey with you
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. Bubbles🍾 says:

        PS … Harvard (TMM)
        Thru my haste to post ….
        the most important of all …. you have sooooo much to offer
        Luv again
        Bubbles xx 😘

      2. Renarde says:

        Is it me or is Bubbles lovely?

        Yup, definately lovely!

        Such a kind comment. X

        1. Pale Horse says:

          Bubbles is very comforting.

      3. Bibi says:

        Who would attack Bubbles?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          A pin? A cocktail stick? Pop, pop !

          1. It Depends says:


          2. SMH says:

            Hahaha. Narcs know all of the bubble bursting tricks.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Some might say that is because because narcissists are pricks, not applicable to me of course, I stop the bubble appearing in the first place.

          4. SMH says:

            Haha. Since a standing prick has no conscience, you must be a flaccid prick? 🙂

          5. HG Tudor says:

            I always have the forensic erection, you should know that by now.

          6. SMH says:

            I do. No idea how you manage to keep your trousers zipped.

          7. HG Tudor says:


          8. K says:

            Ha ha ha…that was good SMH!

          9. SMH says:

            HG keeps me on my toes, K, but he thinks on his feet and I need my finger tips to help my toes. Did I know that old English saying about a standing prick before I Googled it? Nope 🙂

      4. Bibi says:

        Good one, HG. Haha.

      5. Perse says:

        ‘I stop the bubble appearing in the first place.’
        That is no way to treat your champagne!

        And you post our lovely Bubbles’ posts!

        I would also guess that some of your IPPS’ would beg to differ on whether or not you’re a prick. I’m happy to not be able to have any proof.

        ‘I always have the forensic erection, you should know that by now.’
        Is that a banana in your pocket, or are you happy to see fuel?

    9. IdaNoe says:

      Thank you. Thank you for you sincerity, honesty, courage and vulnerability. If this is who you really are, then I happily say I’m sorry for my hot headedness. If you truly need this place, I want you here.
      From everything I have seen, this community of people is quite unique. They will listen and sincerely try to help you. The general feeling I get is that when one succeeds, everybody rejoices. It’s a place were people can speak their fears, be heard and believed, gain much understanding and get insight as to best way to free yourself. This sounds like exactly what you need because you’ve got your hands full.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I would generally ignore your comments and not entertain your bullshit but the fact that you don’t own how nasty your comments were to me back in November is PRETTY TELLING. You are no saint and you take no real accountability and minimize your behavior.

        You telling me to kill myself was just above the belt? NAHHHHHH….You don’t get to slide on that one. I see you. Anyone with half a brain would see how completely deranged that comment was.

        Your comments were reactive and nasty. You have no real remorse for what you said to me. That’s okay – because I don’t care. Your opinion doesn’t matter to me – it never has – but let me tell you this.., you under no circumstances get to say that what you said to me was above the belt. If you actually believe what you said – you are straight up rationalizing and you’re delusional. I have nothing more to say.

      2. Blank says:

        Harley… you didn’t get it right.
        The comment that I referred to as being just above the belt, was about me admitting to Tigerchelle that I also think NA does come across superior (that is my honest feeling) and that I often think of NA as mother superior.
        This was not about me telling you to overdose.
        Telling you to overdose was wrong. I have explained this all at that time, why and how and I have apologized to you and several people. If you and other people like to pick up the past, what can I do? I can not change it anymore.

      3. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


        Again, this is the only place I see Reply. Thank you for your comment way up there. Yes, your driver is to help people which is very kind of you. I know that you have helped me.

        I’m not sure how to tell the difference between a Narcissist and a Non-Narcissist in a new dating scenario, whether in person, or online. But, your post gave me some tips. This is a question I might very well bring up to HG during my Consultation.

        I have many questions.

        Thank you, IdaNoe 🎡

        1. IdaNoe says:

          Oh oh oh, i got this! HG did an article on exactly this subject , how to tell a narc in dating. Brb, going to the search engine!
          Try that article and see if it helps.

          1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


            Thank you so much for taking the time to look this up for me ♥️. I really appreciate it!

            I will add it to my Pinterest Board so I can read it, plus save it for reference.

            Good to see that some of my notifications are coming through.

            I have already save for reference: Flushing Out The Narcissist I & II, and Counteracting The Hoovers, and now I will save this one, too.

            These are all the ones that will help me so much, along with many other.

            But, the link you sent me, and Flushing Out The Narcissist will help me with not getting involved with one in the first place.

            Thank you, IdaNoe! 🎈

    10. NarcAngel says:

      Hi TMM
      I have a strong personality also and have found myself where you are. I know as you do, that when you lead in strong you have to be prepared to receive it that way too. I also understand the excitement of finding a place where you are understood and pouring out a lot all at once. I could be wrong, but it appears to me that you received some harsh responses because your intention in the initial statements you made were not clear. For example it appeared to some that you were asserting your superiority rather than demonstrating that intelligent people can be ensnared also. It was further underlined by other things such as your intolerance of bad grammar and/typos which of course you are bound to encounter here and would understandably put people on the defensive (I wonder with amusement how many infractions I have made in this post thus far for instance haha). Understanding is a two-way street, and not that you owe anyone an explanation, but your post outlining your situation is appreciated and perhaps helps present more of a picture with regard to your intent in being here. Over time people have got to know more about me, and I have learned how to phrase things so they can be better received (but I am not always successful and quite honestly sometimes I just don’t give a damn). You said that you watch and absorb what is around you. I find that to be the case with most people here, and I think you will see that if you choose to stick around, more will become clear. I am glad that you have a support system outside of here should you choose not to, and I truly hope you consult with HG as you have much on your plate that I believe he can help you with.

      1. Renarde says:

        In agreement. I, like you, have a strong personality and my own N side comes through frequently. For me, this happens because to write effectively, clearly and concisely on abuse means I have to – not go into SN – but actively engage the ‘thinky’ part of my brain which is not linked to ET.

        I am sure I frequently get up other’s noses. Yeah, that bothers me and I do try to work on tone and inflection. But shit slips through. Hence, I get labelled as a ‘N’ but then I pause and reflect before understanding only one strand of my personality is being shown.

        There is a really great debate here to be teased out. It concerns intelligence and targeting. Which you touch on NA. I personally believe and having read many, many comments on here, that the level of not just EI but IQ is really very high indeed. HG also mentions it. I think there is a danger we get do wrapped up on quality of fuel that it’s easy to overlook that we are also targeted for residual benefits. IQ and physical attributes (Or indeed sexual ones) are also high the Ns list.

        Someone said, sorry cannot find it, that there was an imprication that TMM was implying others were not smart. That wasn’t my understanding, although I understand why that poster thought that.

        Point of fact is all the regulars are very switched on. Very.

        I hope that I am now considered to be a regular on here. I certainly feel privileged to be here.

        Only HG knows how he mods the board itself. I rather suspect he would have a very good reason not to allow a post through as that would stifle debate. Maybe HG could comment on this?

        I know that there are true Ns on here. There must be but I do find them very difficult to spot. They are much less obvious then mainstream boards on the internet.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Virtually all comments are allowed through. Those that are not are where they just descend into ad hominem insults ( a first one is often allowed through as it evidences particular behaviour to enable readers to evaluate the dynamic) but follow ups are removed. There Is nothing wrong with robust debate and if someone does not accept the view of another, so long as they can explain why and do so in a constructive fashion, even though it may be viewed as an ‘attack’ it will be allowed. There is a difference between forensically carving up another’s argument to just hurling unsubstantiated insults around. People should understand that this is an emotive subject and it attracts varying views and personality types and this invariably leads to some strong observations.

          1. Renarde says:

            Thanks HG for giving your procedures on this. Very helpful.

            It is an incredibly emotive topic which is not engendered by the fact that we are all at different stages on that road.

            I try to be mindful of this.

      2. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        NA, I know that this is an entirely different post than the other one called “Fuel”, where you asked me if I liked Max Headroom… and, I saw a short clip of him after you asked me about him. I thought he was someone different. I had told you that I adored him. Well, I have changed my mind. He’s just “okay”, but that’s all.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Hi Nika
          The reason I suggested Max Headroom was because you stated you feared speaking to HG because you may form a fixation. I was only suggesting that you see him as Max Headroom (in essence a talking head) when speaking to him during the consultation if it helped you to avoid any romantic notions or fixation. That was all. Sorry if there was confusion.

          1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


            Oh, I see! This is a great idea! I will do this, then. 😋

            I’m sorry I did not understand, at first. I thought you were asking me if I “like-LIKE” him.

            I am glad you thought for me to do this because I very much like the idea. Lots!


      3. tigerchelle78 says:


        “It appeared to some that you were asserting your superiority”…. That’s rich coming from you…. Isn’t it NA?!

        “I have a strong personality” lol, you mean you’re a class A super bitch and this is your territory! You are pretty much always asserting your authority or superiority. Did your father teach you that? He taught you well. I’m sure you would make him proud.

        (Cue Twilight the storm trooper and superxena the warrior to come in and stick up for you and sing your praises…..!)

        Understanding IS a two-way street NA. And just because you see something the way you understand or think you understand it does not mean that’s the way it actually is. Do you understand that?

        You have learned how to phrase things better NarcAngel? Nah, I’m pretty sure over time you’ve just become more calloused and hardened. You’ve got more clever with your wording, to have digs at people, and use just enough humour in there to get away with it. Because everyone knows you are a bitch, so that makes it alright for you to put down others and put them in their place does it?

        Everyone certainly knows who you are NarcAngel. Everyone…..

        Don’t forget you have your fans to show in here what you are made of!?

        Say what you like about me. Come and leave all your snarky like comments. I do not care anymore. TMM has the right idea I think….

        I’m surprised nobody has told her she is “playing a victim” yet, or she is jealous, or attention seeking, as that’s usually what comes after you call them a narc isnt it?! And that’s usually what you judge them as if they are trying to defend or explain to you all things….or they are trying to stick up for themselves in some way. I’ve seen it again and again and I’m sick of it!

        Some people in here are true empaths. Humble. Really kind, sensitive and caring individuals whom you draw to. I have no idea what the rest of you are. No idea at all!

        Feel free to gang up on me and attack won’t you…..

        1. SMH says:

          Wow, Tigerchelle. Why so much venom? I’ve had my problems with NA but I think I am beginning to understand her now, maybe because my defenses are not so high, maybe because I don’t feel in fight or flight mode all the time. It wasn’t her. It was me. Maybe she triggers you – she did me for awhile. But I like both of you. Please don’t fight! 😂

          1. tigerchelle78 says:


            There is a lot of venom in me at times! That is nothing! I actually kept it under wraps…..
            Thank you for your honesty. Its nice to know I’m not only one who has had problems with NA. And yes it could well be the way I am looking or feeling things at the time.

            You are spot on, where you say about feeling in “fight or flight” mode. I often feel in this mode. Its like I have to be for protection. But yes there was some triggering going on.
            I don’t have any hate or malice for her, but I do think there is a lot of misunderstanding between us which doesn’t help.

            I don’t want to fight either! Thank you SMH….

        2. Twilight says:


          You may want to tuck that true colour back in, it is starting to shine bright again.

          1. tigerchelle78 says:


            Its not a colour, but more of a reactivity to a trigger. Yes that may be perceived from my perspective.
            Please see my others comments, and please try to understand me rather than judge me….
            We all have that “colour” in us do we not?!

            He who does not sin, throw the first stone……

            (Put the stone down Tudor lol!)

        3. NarcAngel says:

          Fair is fair. I had my say and now you have given yours in glorious color for all to see. One request: could you please contain your dislike for me and keep to yourself the labels (stormtroopers and fans) just because some people may be like-minded, and sweeping generalizations like “everyone knows”? I understand its hard for you to contain, so Im glad you had the opportunity to drop the facade and let it all out. I’m also content to remain shattered that you do not care for me, but you really need not extend it to others. It makes you look bad but its your choice as always. We’ve aired it now, so there will be no further responses from me or “ganging up” to spare everyone else and to aid in less moderating of nonsense for HG.

          Back to our regular scheduled programming……

          1. Pale Horse says:


            For what its worth, I like your style. Your words have helped me greatly because you state what needs to be stated as much as some might not be ready to hear it.

          2. tigerchelle78 says:


            You are indeed very good at your sarcasm!

            Yes I’ve shown my colours for all to see. My faults, my failings etc…. Everyone can see it. Everyone may judge as they see fit.

            The stormtroopers and fans thing was tongue in cheek, and you do have loyal supporters in here NA due to the long time you’ve been here. I reckon it makes life a lot easier when you do have that in here.
            Speaking from one who doesn’t have any lol, it sucks! Its like whatever I say gets pulled apart of looked at through a microscope as for the percentage of narcness in it.

            I do not have a facade NA. I have a recognised and diagnosed personality disorder? What do you have?

            Yes I’m sure I looked very bad in here after this, a bit like the last time too. Oh well, I guess if you are writing it down, you can keep score of all my badness, and bring it up at other times if you like to remind me of how low you think of me.

            If HG says that I’m a narcissist this day, then I will not come back to this blog ever again, because I would not want to be a narc that is hurting others. I will not do that. I may stumble and make mistakes and get angry at times but I will not be someone who everyone including myself has been abused from. So if HG answers I am a narc today, then I will leave and you’ll hear no more from me, I promise!

            HG, am I a narcissist?

          3. tigerchelle78 says:

            And if HG does not reply, to “AM I A NARCISSIST?”

            I shall take his NO reply to mean that:

            “YES I AM A NARCISSIST” and therefore get out of everyone’s hair!

            I don’t wanna cause anymore trouble or hurt for anyone here…. as everyone is trying to heal from Narcs!

            You are the expert Tudor, everyone will trust your decision!

          4. Twilight says:


            I have not seen one instance when HG has verified or call another a narcissist here.
            So stating what you have is nothing but a way to claim he has said you are a narcissist, when in fact he never did.

          5. tigerchelle78 says:

            You obviously have not been reading very well then…
            He verified in NarcAngel’s letter to Narcissist that she was not. NA asked him, and he said: “No”….there have also been many saying from time to time: ” I think I’m a narc” and he has said: “no you are not” in response.
            I’ve seen it many times.
            He may not directly say someone is a narcissist but he will say things such as: “I’ve let these comments through to let everyone see the narcissist dynamic” or something along those lines….

          6. Twilight says:


            Did you read what I said?
            “tigerchelle78 I have not seen one instance when HG has verified or call another a narcissist here. So stating what you have is nothing but a way to claim he has said you are a narcissist, when in fact he never did.”

            Your approach is such
            “And if HG does not reply, to “AM I A NARCISSIST?”

            I shall take his NO reply to mean that:

            “YES I AM A NARCISSIST” and therefore get out of everyone’s hair!

            I don’t wanna cause anymore trouble or hurt for anyone here…. as everyone is trying to heal from Narcs!

            You are the expert Tudor, everyone will trust your decision!”

            You asked then told him what he is saying IF he doesn’t answer you.

            NA didn’t say “and if HG does not reply “
            When others have asked they didn’t say “and if HG does not reply”

            You repeatedly try and force him to answer you in a way that suits you.

            When HG has stated “I’ve let these comments through to let everyone see the narcissist dynamic” has been when questioned about behavior witness not from being asked “am I a narcissist”

            Do you want to continue trying to control and manipulating things? I can go back into the archives and find enough showing how you manipulate, mirror, and change up to suit you.

            I could care less if you are NPD or BPD. I leave you alone because someone may read something you say and it helps them, that and you show behaviors many would never see.

          7. tigerchelle78 says:

            You have already made up your mind what I am. Sure, go into the archives, and fill your boots. However what would help more is if you looked up BPD symptoms.

            I’ll still take his no reply as a yes.

            I guess I just have a different method of going about things. I guess it is manipulative, but I didn’t see it like that, I just saw it as, he may not want to answer, so if he doesn’t I can still come away with an answer. I’m not trying to control or manipulate….

            It no longer matters anyway….

            I’m done with trying to explain….I’m so tired…. I can’t do this any longer….

          8. windstorm says:

            “And if HG does not reply, to “AM I A NARCISSIST?”
            I shall take his NO reply to mean that:
            “YES I AM A NARCISSIST” and therefore get out of everyone’s hair!”

            The problem with that approach is you are forgetting that since he is a narc, he will refuse to comply because you are dictating terms to him. You can not make him answer, therefore his silence means nothing.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            Entirely correct WS.

          10. MB says:

            WS, I thought the same thing. He is the doer, not the done to. His silence always means something, though. It just won’t mean what SHE dictates it to mean.

          11. Twilight says:


            His silence always means something.
            He just isn’t going to say one way or the other, IF she is a narcissist she is not going to accept this, her belief is that she is BPD and nothing is going to change this.

            This is just goes along with no one is going to tell HG what he is or is not going to do.

            Just because he is silent doesn’t mean she isn’t one either.

          12. tigerchelle78 says:


            No, I’m not making him answer. I’ve asked. And I’ve said if he does not reply, for whatever reason, then I’ll take that as a yes, to keep things uncomplicated. Therefore he doesn’t even need to give me an answer. I will know from his silence. That’s fine. I can only ask, so that is what I’ve done! Just like NarcAngel did, and others. They got an answer. I wonder why some do and others don’t. I’m sure I’m not the first to wonder…..

          13. some chick says:

            Sorry to interrupt..

            I’ve only ever seen occasional “no” replies (on the blog). If he does answer “yes”, perhaps it’s during consultations…?

          14. windstorm says:

            I guess my point was that all his not answering really tells you is that he’s choosing not to participate. It tells you nothing about whether you are a narc or not.

            The factor that determines whether or not HG comments on his opinion of if a commenter is or is not a narc is whether or not he wants to comment. Probably this is determined by many factors like his mood, whether he thinks it benefits the blog or if he feels it stops attacks or is a “teaching moment.” What we want is not really relavent.

          15. SMH says:

            Tigerchelle, I haven’t seen your other comment come through my notifications so I can’t reply to it. Replying here instead. I find that the further I get from narc, the less people here trigger me (similarly, HG does not trigger me anymore and neither do any of the posts, at least recently). I too can be venomous and I too have wondered if I am a narc. None of that is true. It is just a temporary state. I don’t know your whole story but months from now, if you are NC, you will find that you are much less exposed and won’t feel so raw. I have seen where HG says that if you think might be a narc you are not one. Only Greaters are aware that they are narcs and they wouldn’t lose their shit the way you did :-).

          16. Twilight says:


            I would look for remorse, accountability, and taking responsibility for actions to go along with asking if I am a narcissist.

            She insults then when called out shows a reason for why she did such, never apologizing. That is just one example of her behavior.

            I am not saying one way or another, yet. People need to make up their own minds with the knowledge they have.

          17. tigerchelle78 says:

            You are not saying one way or another? I thought you were already decided Twilight….

          18. Twilight says:


            In response to your comment back to me on showing your colours.

            You asked that I try and understand you. I have been observing you sense YouTube. Energy does not lie, your behaviors have matched up with the energy, in reality I didn’t have to judge you, you judged yourself I just agreed with it which is my judgment of you. I have never said you are a narcissist, nor have I said you are not.

            As soon as someone says they do not judge they are lying, we all judge we just don’t see it as judging when like minded, yet you have Judged and found the person to think similar to oneself. It is neither wrong or right, it is human nature. It becomes wrong when one begins to manipulate, lie, and take things out of context to influence others.

            “He who does not sin, throw the first stone….” do you practice what you preach?

        4. WhoCares says:


          I may have missed some past conversations before my time…and I agree that NarcAngel has strong opinions and does not mince words but, in my time here, I have never witnessed her actually being unkind.

          I have engaged conversations with you because I thought you had interesting points to make and I felt for you – given some past experiences you shared.

          But your remark to NarcAngel about her father jolted me (I won’t give your words extra attention by quoting them in reference)…not even so much in how purposely hurtful they were – but in how I have heard them before somewhere…

          I’m not saying that I feel that I have enough knowledge to label anyone one way or another – especially when only presented with limited online experience with a person – but those words (nearly word for word) are uncannily similar  to the same things both my narcs said to me at one point – only they were referencing each other and how I was “taught well” by the other. My mother and my ex are both Mid-rangers, of the victim cadre.

          And if you are an empath – that was just a really low, super UNempathic move.

          1. tigerchelle78 says:

            I am sorry to have jolted you. Perhaps I must be a narc then if you’ve witnessed two mid-rangers of the victim cadre saying similar things.

          2. WhoCares says:

            I don’t know what you are Tigerchelle. I saw your apology.

            I know being in emotional pain can cause us to hurt others. And just because your words were similar to those of my narcs doesn’t make you a narcissist…but my reaction to it reveals to me where my vulnerabilities still lay.

            If you truely feel remorse; maybe you’ve also learned something valuable about yourself. And I truely hope that you continue to seek support and that you find your way through the pain.

      4. Presque Vu says:

        Oofftt you’ve taken a few people out there tigerchelle.
        Good good people of the forum.
        The difference between those you mentioned and yourself is simple.

        Nobody cuts to the bone on a personal abusive past or experience like you just have with NA’s father.

        Perhaps that’s the difference between a narc and empath right there. No matter how angry or upset, past hurts and abuses would never be used against someone in an argument. Using someone’s previous agonies and hurts against them is classic narc behaviour.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Presque Vu

          Yes, I can often do this, if and when I react to a certain trigger!

          I hate having BPD.

          The difference with me is, others may think about cutting to the bone as you say, but don’t say it, but I say it, and then think “shit, I shouldn’t have said that!”

          But I’ve apologised and tried to explain where I’m coming from. Ive read on here and seen many empaths in their comments and letters, just how cruel, manipulative and cunning they can be and what theyve wanted to do or rather have done to their narcs….you would think many of them were narcs the way they talk and describe things, but its just a part of them….
          Then you see other parts of them, and their empathic sides and more caring sides. You cannot take one or even many comments and judge a person on that.
          As I have explained in other comments I am on the cluster B spectrum, (BPD) and therefore I have some overlapping traits of NPD. So I will be narcissistic at times or can be.

          Do you know who taught me to use that kind of cruelty like I did with NA? My own father who was a narc. That’s why I asked, because no doubt her own father had an influence on her too. And yes it is classic narc behaviour and that’s what I hate about that person within me. I’m grateful though that I have a better person also within me, that is non-narclike.

      5. Aunt Clara says:

        Oh look. I dear say it is NarcAngel burbling inanities from the deep dark web with numbing regularity AGAIN. Let’s all remind NarcAngel that many women on this website are reluctant to cement an alliance with her. If they do, it is with gnashing teeth. She is very jealous and envious indeed of any woman to whom HG Tudor offers attention or is smarter and younger than she is.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Aunt Clara….

          Hello! How are you? You also seem to have a thing for NarcAngel.
          But just to be clear….
          I am not in receipt of any attention from Tudor, not that I know of.
          I would definitely say that NA was smarter than I am. I do not know her age. But I am 41.
          Wherever there are a group of women, there is bound to be jealousy, unfortunately which is why I have many male friends.

      6. Bibi says:

        I seem to have missed something. Was there arguing on another thread? ‘Taking people out’? What?

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        You don’t have any haterade over here. I find it unfortunate that you and NA don’t get along but I can understand why you both don’t mix. I like both of you. I can see how NA’s comment pushed your buttons and you reacted; however you went for the jugular (not scolding you) and I know you know that and I think you really regret it. I have had and currently have a few borderline friends. Your reactions feel and appear very similar. When they react they go straight for what is gonna hurt the most and it happens so fast – it’s very impulsive. It can destroy a lot of relationships and friendships but I know you know this. I’m not BPD and I have said some pretty fucked up things in the past that I can’t take back which is why I really watch what I say and try my best to package my messages as nicely as possible in hope that I am well received and I don’t hurt someones feelings. I understand that it clearly doesn’t always work and shit we all get frustrated.

        I understand you are hurt, feel picked on, and you probably feel invalidated but I feel like NA poked you and you took a sledge hammer and went bam. I completely get why you reacted …I get that it was probably building up too but I think that when you start to feel those feelings it might be best to walk away from the computer and revisit the conversation after you have calmed down. You wouldn’t like it if she took something extremely personal ….something about your childhood or lets say you had an eating disorder (I’m pulling random examples out of my ass but you get the point) and threw that in your face when you were having an argument. You would be crushed. I’m just asking you to consider walking away to calm down in the future. I have to do it myself at times. I’m not trying to make you feel worse than you already feel because I get this feeling you do feel bad about what you said and there is a sense of shame that washes over you (all the time or sometimes) after these type of incidents.

        As for NA, I adore her but I see how she can come off rough around the edges at times (sorry NA love ya but it’s true and ya know it lol). I think that she might wanna consider how she delivers her message because the delivery may provoke/trigger certain people who are very sensitive and reactive to go a bit nuclear. NA makes amazing points and is excellent at staying composed and calm (it appears) especially when communicating her point(s) to others; however when you poke someone with BPD…BOOOM. I have been NA and I have been Tigerchelle so I essentially can see both perspectives.

        Tigerchelle, I don’t perceive you to be a narcissist. It is very easy for people who are not in the mental health field as well as those even in the mental health field to have difficulty differentiating between various disorders especially cluster b’s. What people easily forget is you can meet the criteria for more than one personality disorder as well. No one can know for sure what anyone is because there simply isn’t enough information. I mean sure there might be ways of speaking and the way people react and communicate that can start to like… make you wonder but the reality is no one has all of the information or the credentials to be stamping mental health conditions on strangers heads.

        There was an individual here like a year or two ago (who knows time starts to blur lol) – but I picked up on histrionic traits and so did others but I also picked up on certain borderline traits so it really is hard for me to even make certain judgments at times. She could have been both. The truth is I see red flags and patterns and have suspicions but realize need all of the necessary information in order to stamp some label on someone and like I said that person could meet the criteria for both – who knows – again not enough information. I’m excellent at diagnosis and picking up patterns – I’m totally gonna toot my own horn here lol but I have to humble myself at times and realize there isn’t enough information to jump to any conclusion.

        I also believe there are people here that may have emotional empathy but lack cognitive empathy and others that may have more cognitive empathy than they do emotional empathy. Some people can communicate effectively while others mehhh not so much. Some people suck at delivering their messages and others are excellent at delivering their messages. These are some other points to take into consideration…that’s all.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:


          Good reasoning. I think though Tudor encourages many vulnerable women to replace their narc with him. I can kinda see why.
          But I too made a conscious effort not even to go their in my mind.
          As you say, thinking of all what he is, and what he has done and continues to do, as well as reading how he treats people, is always more than enough to put me off.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Incorrect. I encourage people to use the first class information here, not to substitute me for their narcissist, that is contrary to the information which I provide and is self-evident. To form such an opinion shows a superficial grasp of the reading here.

      8. Blank says:


        Get your ass back in here.

        You know HG is not going to respond to such a question in public. You’ll need to cosult with him.

        I’m going to read all your comments over time and I’ll let you know if I think your a narc. Okay? Not that I have any expertise whatsoever, because when I think I see a narc and have 15 red flags to found that conjecture, I apparently still get it wrong.

        Take care Tigerchelle. It’s okay to be weird, not understood and all that. You are not alone here. And I agree with you NA does come across having a superior attitude. I don’t say this to be mean, I’m being honest, it’s something I feel too.
        In my mind I always think of her as mother superior 🙂 That’s because of her black & white avatar also.

        Sorry NA, no hard feelings.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          None taken. Fair enough that you think I feel superior. I’m fine with that assessment. I thought that of you previously when you suggested that another commenter here should take an overdose, but in my superiority I determined that is not the totality of your personality and that I just did not agree with you. Things are not always as they appear are they?

          1. Blank says:

            Mine was just above, yours was below the belt NA haha. You realize how narcish it is to bring up the past right?
            Anyway, I probably deserved that and no one boils my piss today (excuse my English 😜).


        2. tigerchelle78 says:


          You are very kind. Thank you for what you’ve said. And your honesty. I am glad I am not the only one in what I feel.

          You have a nice way of putting things….

      9. Getting There says:

        I know that the most current discussion back and forth has history that I do not understand. Please do not take me jumping in as trying to usurp anyone or any feelings (past and present).
        I don’t know much but I believe strong personalities can at times appear passionate when defending others or even themselves.
        As much as I hate confrontation, I will jump into fire to protect others if need be. I can come across like a b@#$% when my intent is not to be that but only about protecting. I apologize and feel bad when I cross a line, but i understand that it is a weakness in me I need to work on. We will not all get along and writing is not the best way to communicate, so I am under no delusion that this blog will be shangri-la. I am on a blog written by a narcissist. I am learning from him as he is providing perspective. He is providing so much! (HG doesn’t know it yet but he is going to be my excuse on why I can’t talk to the most recent guy if he comes back since I can’t do it myself.) I recognize my role is not a fuel source on here; and HG keeps us from gaining knowledge to have outside contact so I feel safe in not becoming a target. I know the feelings so well when entangled with a narcissist. I have to be honest and say that I didn’t let go of a relationship because of what it did to me, so I apparently am ready to accept it if it were to happen again; although I cannot emphasize how much I hope it never does happen again. I also recognize (thanks to HG) that many narcissists don’t even know that their good facade is just that, a facade. Also, as that letter recently posted came across to me: narcissists are victims. They are victims from something that made them that way and they are victims every day. It is not a situation of which we can help fix, and they won’t fix it, so it is a vicious situation I can only pray about. Although I can totally understand that feeling to want to call them “evil,” personally I cannot. That doesn’t mean that being with them is good either. My therapist has used the example of someone with severe, uncontrolled narcolepsy: not their choice but not someone I will let drive my child around. There are blunt people on here; there are loving people who would be the type to hug you without knowing you; and there are others who fit in the middle. Each style has different impact on others but that doesn’t make them wrong. Sometimes the same style can clash.

        I understand and completely respect others feel differently than me on some or all my above points, so what am I saying with this rant? I am saying that I hope people only choose to leave this blog if it is something they want. Respecting each other is important. Even if we don’t give respect to ourselves, we all deserve to give it to others regardless of how we perceive another. All of you have no idea how much you have helped me whether you are narcissistic or not; and I know I am not the only one each and every one of you have helped. So thank you!

      10. Valkyrie says:

        tigerchelle78, I understand you are hurt and I am sorry for that. I have been were you are and I think sometimes I felt attacked by a comment (in real life) or people in real life, and later realized it was not as severe as I thought. I think you are emotionally reacting because you are hurt.

        Can people be a little blunt sometimes and insensitive? You betcha. We are all human and trying to figure this all out.

        I think the key to responding to hurt, is to keep it respectful and write how you feel without hurting them back. If you feel someone was trying to hurt you, do not respond with anger or venom (I know this is difficult when feeling emotionally hurt). Do not repay insult with insult.

        That being said, I think NarcAngel was trying to point out inconsistency. No one is perfect. We all try our best to express our feelings. We are generally experts at not stepping on toes, but when emotions run high, it clouds our empathy I think. I feel like Edward Scissorhands sometimes! I try to make things better and I end up cutting them and myself! I do my best not to hurt people.

        I sometimes feel like everyone is staring at me judging when I am feeling emotionally wounded. It sucks. I feel you. I am sorry for your hurt. ❤

        I think some of what you said to NarcAngel after you were hurt was really hurtful and I am glad you apologized. But writing “I am sorry, BUT…”, takes a little of the ownership out of it. Yes people here comment and defend when they feel someone is being unfairly treated. Calling them fans and super troopers is a little mocking. 💔

        I have had great interactions with NA and I find her very compassionate, especially when it comes to children. Her comments are saucy and I enjoy that! She has lifted me up with her comments and made me laugh when I needed it. But she has herself stated that she can come off the wrong way sometimes. As we all do.

        I hope y’all put this to bed. tigerchelle78, I enjoy your honesty and having you here ❤. I think you are highly sensitive right now (I have been there!). I am not saying you don’t have a right to be hurt. I think a comment can be taken severely when it was meant to be more of an saucy correction. I am sorry you were hurt.

        Let’s have some f*ing chocolate and cookies and hug it out. Love you guys!

        1. tigerchelle78 says:


          You’ve hit the nail on the head!

          When I feel hurt, whether its perceived or real, I react, and usually its to the person that hurt me. Its very borderline. Of course there are times when I control it. Other times I have had enough and it comes out!

          As you say, we are all imperfect, and myself, even more so, because I have a few disorders, and the way I express things and my worldview is different to others.

          Edward scissor hands is perfect description! That is what I would say being borderline is often like. And look how he was judged and misinterpreted in that film.

          Yes, it was a crap apology, I am not sure how you own your mistakes to be honest. Do you just say: “I am sorry?”
          I always thought it was nice if the other person accepts the apology but I’ve apologised twice in here, and she doesn’t say anything back. She comes across as a very proud person.

          Yes, mocking it was, and I also have felt mocked in here and laughed at many times, but those things don’t get seen. But then if I explain this, people then mock me by saying: ” I’m playing the victim”, its like whatever I say, it gets misconstrued.

          Chocolate and cookies sound good!

          Thanks for your gentle and appealing way!

          Not all of us work the same way. We are all different. Sometimes I think this can be forgotten! Some of us are more fragile than others. Even HG explains borderlines have tissue-thin skin. We do. We are easily hurt. We can be triggered by little things. Criticism, rejection, abandonment…..real or perceived are often the worst things for us!

          So again I have explained to you how it is for me, but many in here will still not get it, because they only get narc behaviour, not borderline, or antisocial, or histrionic, which are all on the same spectrum. As far as they are concerned they would all be narcs.

          I try to explain, but there really is no point any longer…..

          I wish you well….

          I don’t stay where I feel misunderstood, put down, criticized, mocked and not safe. The only ones that understand me are usually other borderlines.

      11. Presque Vu says:

        I wonder if my reply falls into line?
        I read between the lines.
        I see the excuses.
        I no longer care.
        I’m not here to prove someone’s a narc.
        I’m here to find understanding.

        I feel I’ve achieved grand master narc detector … thanks for the seminars Da Tude.

      12. Lori says:

        OH lord here we go again…listen folks you don’t have to agree with anyone or really understand them. This is for informational purposes only. I see a crazy amount of personal stuff going on here to include that I see many getting all personally wrapped up in HG. He’s here as a reference and nothing more

        Holy moly. Chill out people.

      13. Presque Vu says:

        Aunt Clara what a load of utter bullshit!
        NA writes some awesome supportive comments to many many women, myself included. Not sure why everyone is jealous of her and HG?
        To be on point… HG, is not a trophy to collect. Who gives a fuck who he flirts with or not, we should all remember why we are here. We all have our own intimate HG equivilant.

        I’m sick of seeing NA get such a hard time. A strong intelligent and sarcastic as fuck woman is my kind of gal. Keep on. Being you NA.

      14. nunya biz says:

        I do not know much about you and have no evaluation or diagnosis for you- but for further exploration, which you seem interested in, you might look at
        Not sure what part of the world you are in.
        It’s a good resource and probably applies to many here.

    11. Perse says:

      Dear Harvard/TMM/SixTwo757,

      I;m sorrowful that your experience here has been hurtful because of unthinking and purposefully cruel attacks. I was quite enjoying reading your posts, and your exchanges with other posters, and trying to ignore the ‘background noise’.

      I think that posters might want to read (and understand) the articles about empaths, before they start post that someone posting is a narcissist. Many empaths have man y narcissistic traits without being a narcissist.
      If I recall, an empath with many N traits will be highly prized as an appliance to higher functioning narcissists.

      What I saw from Harvard, was a poster who was very happy to have found this community, along with the excellent education that HG hands out for free here. Her posts were of an excited and friendly ‘So nice to meet you’ type, and what others saw as bragging was Harvard answering questions from another poster about herself.

      Those who kept sniping about seeing a narcissist posting, well, I didn’t see anyone calling you out as a MRN for being passive aggressive.

      And if someone asks you questions about yourself, it is expected that if you don’t mind being asked, you will answer. This is one of the ways humans get to know each other. Some of you were taking these answers out of that context, and attacking Harvard/TMM/SixTwo757 for these answers.

      And I am ‘In A Mood’ today. I’d like to say I’m here to defend the innocent, but instead I’m here to bitch that interesting and empathic posters I like reading are being chased away. How’s that for self involved? Am I a narcissist? I don’t even think I’d actually had an occasion where I have directly responded to her, yet, and she wants to now avoid the forums.

      Dr HQ/ Harley Quinn had just finally returned, and seeing someone else get chased away, someone whom I did not see making disparaging or hurtful remarks to or about others, is dispiriting!

      I’m not going anywhere. My skin is thicker than that, so I do get more positive from this forum than negative. But, please do remember when you first arrived here, you may have been very excited to discover you weren’t crazy, nor all that rare. Or you may have been filled with anger and hate, so you may have spewed everything. Without thinking you need to protect your self from empaths!! Right? We are here learning how to protect ourselves from narcissists. While I would love to exorcise guilt/overresponsibility from my own personality, I didn’t come to learn HOW TO BE A NARCISSIST! I don’t want to incorporate the very traits that we complain about. Do you?

      This post is not uplifting, comforting, or entertaining. Maybe next time. But I hope that you will consider my post. I believe I may have driven someone away from this forum, and have regretted that I might have denied her the community she needed, while I stayed to avail myself of the support here.

      OK, that’s my 2 cents. Shouting into a wind tunnel……

      Persephone, Queen Of Hell/Perse Jumped Into The Fire/ Fuel Pump Out Of Order, Please Pull Forward/ Perse S Frisky and many other incarnations …………..


      1. Bibi says:

        This thread is long and so I don’t know where to comment. But I just wanted to make a couple of points.

        It is entirely possible for 2 empaths to dislike each other. I personally have disliked many individuals who were not narcs but nagging, hen-pecking empaths. ‘Can I help you? Can I help you? Do this, do this…’ Or we just had opposing values.

        I like Narc Angel just fine but I must say I don’t like that Michelle cat woman pic. I hate that movie. Can’t we do Ladyhawke?

        But then again who am I to criticize when I have an ugly yellow square the color of puke.

        That’s me. When you think of Bibi, think of puke.

    12. SMH says:

      Harvard (TMM),

      Hmmm. Your math really does not add up. Never mind that you garbled your IQ numbers, as someone else pointed out. But no one appears to have pointed out that by your own admission, you were pregnant at 20 and divorced your daughter’s narc father 25 years ago. You are now 45. That would make your “daughter” 24 or so. How is it that she is still in high school (for those of you who are not American, high school graduates are 18)? Did she not inherit your superior IQ?

      So, let’s see, she and Cockwaffle’s son started dating. What are the odds of that? Vanishingly small. And you hang out with them? What are the odds that two dating high schoolers will want to hang out with mom? Vanishingly small. And you came home with Cockwaffle’s son and your daughter in tow and caught him with another woman? What are the odds of that? Vanishingly small. Cockwaffle didn’t have to explain to his son what he was doing with another woman when he is dating his son’s girlfriend’s mother? No mention of that. Hmmm. And you are pregnant with Cockwaffle’s twins after knowing him for less than a year? What are the odds of that? Vanishingly small. And all four of you ladies decided at the same time that Cockwaffle was not worth the effort, that you would band together to undermine him? What are the odds of that? Vanishingly small. (At least one of you would have forgiven him and tried to hang on to the relationship. One of you would have given him sanctuary. Yep.)

      None of the other stories on here sounds remotely like yours, which is straight from a combination of the Daily Mail and the National Enquirer. The odds of your story being true are vanishingly small.

      I don’t need to give my credentials to convince everyone that you are a liar. It’s just logical thinking!! Why you are lying is another question. Someone suggested that you are trying to ensnare HG – good luck with that. I am not protecting HG – he can take care of himself. I just don’t like liars. Sorry – not sorry!!

      Anyway, looks like you are gone already. But if not, please do explain how it is that your “daughter” is still in high school at 24 years old. Thanks.

      1. Harvard (TMM) says:

        I have two children at present. 25 and 17.

        IQ is like a credit score, a range dependent on factors. Specific strengths, weaknesses. So Equifax May have you 685. TransUnion 710. Experian 675. You can average that out for cumulative credit score. I presented an average IQ score of 128.

        Yes, Cockwaffle’s son loved hanging out with us. My youngest daughter and I are very close (your experience may vary) and I took the kids paddle boarding one afternoon. We arrived back at the house and his secondary was leaving, kissing Cwaff in the driveway. His son DID know about all the others. It upset him greatly. I know, as he told me so. Forgive me as I elaborate: I have tattoos, piercings, ride a motorcycle, have a goofy dog, teach photography lessons and motorcycle safety. I’m not typical. My daughters friends like me. You’re not required to.

        Not all Cockwaffle’s victims will leave him. I’m sure some will stay. Though a couple-including his ex wife and mother of said son, have cut him off. He’s permanently damaged his relationship with his son who said to all of us that Cwaff deserves what he gets. Not my circus, not my gorilla anymore as I’m out.

        The odds of one sperm out of millions connecting with one egg in one point in time is astonishingly small. That’s why it’s called a miracle so often. But, even with astonishingly small odds, shit still happens, with or without your belief or blessing.

        1. SMH says:

          Whatever you say, Harvard.

      2. Harvard (TMM) says:

        If you were just going to roll your eyes and shrug at my responses/explanations— why did you bother picking apart my history?

        I will answer questions— if I can and if doing so doesn’t expose myself/others to caprice. But if I answer questions and you don’t like the answers, that’s on you- not me.

        My daughter (younger- as you need specifics) wanted to log on, start a profile and go to town on this- being young and impulsive and not having learned to temper her fire, yet. But I said no— it’d just fuel the debate of who is who….and she doesn’t need to go there. She DOES need to read HG’s work- so I have her going on that.

        Should she (as she’s 17 and I don’t control her) log on and see this- and decide to spar….. sweetie, just for the hell of it, pick YOUR school…..and sign off as Princeton.

        1. SMH says:

          Harvard, All I need to know is what “school” my narc is. That tells me how to deal with it and how to get out of it. Who or what I am hardly matters.

          Since we are picking apart your history, you are saying that you now have two kids by two different fathers? And you are pregnant by a third man? You first got married at 20? Really? I’m not judging you at all. Just trying to believe you as it’s all a bit unusual, including for an Ivy Leaguer.

      3. Harvard (TMM) says:

        I said I’m intelligent. I didn’t say I was wise.

        1. SMH says:

          Harvard, Lots of us are intelligent. None of us are wise. Welcome to the club.

        2. SMH says:

          Oops. Except for HG. He is both intelligent and wise.

      4. Lori says:

        Sorry that Harvard iQ is not an adult credit score and I AM the mother of a gifted child and I don’t mean gifted because I say she’s gifted. I mean gifted as in the school counselor called me in the 3rd grade when then got some test scores back that were off the charts and yes she is quite likely to attend an Ivy League school but let me tell you I’m still plenty smarter than her.

        This IQ shit has no place here. It comes off as extremely insecure. Now does that surprise me ? Not really as I said many come here with there self confidence in shambles but I’m sorry you aren’t any more special than anyone else here and quite honestly if you were that brilliant you wouldn’t have been ensnared. With all that said can we leave all freakin personal shit alone no one needs to know what anyone’s at IQ is. Lord it’s all ridiculous.

    13. Valkyrie says:

      Havard (TMM)

      I had a very similar story as yours. I contacted the other women and we confronted him, although separately. The pain is visceral and I am so sorry for what you went through and what you continue to go through.

      You are here like us to heal and learn and I appreciate you, your honesty and am glad you are here. Seeing the similarities and emphasizing with each other helps.

      Thank you for being here and sharing and I hope you stay. ❤Valk

      1. Valkyrie says:

        I meant empathizing…but emphasizing as well! Ugh lol

      2. Harvard (TMM) says:

        We debated separate confrontations. His ex did talk to him one-on-one as she does try to stay away from him (he messages her constantly and meddles/stalks her) but we, as a group, did decide that part of his power was his ability to lie and no evidence to the contrary. Group confrontation eliminated that. It was a blitzkrieg. It was spectacular- we had to slip in to avoid his cameras/tech/ security…and thus, how I KNOW his son felt he deserved it, as we had inside help.

        Also, only one of his other girls knew I was pregnant, not all. So the bomb went off for the kids, him, and all the others at the same time. I do think that contributed to the mass-exodus from his world. He’s still smearing and spewing…and I’m still ignoring.

        The one he was triangulating me with- she and I hang out quite a bit. We went to a favorite music group concert together just last week– and who to our wondering eye would appear…..Cockwaffle. Alone. Looking haggard. Appearance changed from weeks before. I don’t know if he saw either of us, and she saw him (and froze) I did not. I didn’t look his direction, or make any contact of any kind. We left near the end of the gig- and got out before the crowds to avoid him getting us into a ‘herd’ situation. Walked past his car to ours (which we are sure he saw) and left.

        If nothing else— the bit that he lost so many sources at once…and that something got to him…was enough for me. I’ll discuss the few and pointed items I have with HG at some point soon.

        Meanwhile, thank you for the encouragement. I’m trying. That’s all one can do.

      3. Valkyrie says:

        Havard (TMM), glad you all were able to bond and move on.

        I still talk with the other women. We had photos and texts from him, so he couldn’t deny. He slept with one of them weeks after I finally slept with him for the first time. It took me years to build up a trust enough to have sex with him.

        None of them speak to him now. I don’t know how many other sources he had. We were all devastated and getting over the attachment has been hard, but we have each other.

        I am just really glad I am out and can move on and be happy.

        Much love and happiness to you and your support squad.


      4. Lori says:

        Very risky move ladies due to the nature of addiction to the Narcissist whereby one or all of you are still addicted and you begin to use each other to get edge in getting the Narcissist back though none of you tell each other. Meaning you all tell each other you are done but you don’t yet realize that you are not. He will innately figure out which one of you is the weakest link and begin to hoover that one.

      5. Lori says:

        Narcs are masters at divide and conquer. Even the strongest alliances don’t stand a chance

      6. Valkyrie says:

        Very good point Lori. That is definitely something I think could happen.

        On the flip side, I feel a connection to these ladies/victims. I would feel it was a betrayal to them as well to be with him.

        But I do think the pull back to him is strong. One of them stated, “Let’s not talk about him, it only makes us think about him more and is harder to break the connection.” She was completely right. We just talk about our lives now and how things are going, not him.

        When we first started talking, having them tell me about their relationship with him, solidified in my mind the cheating and games. We all had the same story and I was grateful to find them.

        But yes, I think their is an inclination to wonder if you were “the one” and the rest were just games. I try not to go there in my mind. I don’t want to be with anyone who uses, lies and deceives women. Period.

      7. Harvard (TMM) says:

        We are reaching the ‘don’t go there’ point on him.

        Talking about the situation has helped clarify questions and poke into the dark corners where he kept things hidden. Days/times and excuses he made…as you said, hearing the lies revealed does provide some additional boost to being ‘done’.

        I agree with the end of thinking of and doing things with respect to him…and we’re getting there. I’m sure some of the group will be hoovered- but not me. If I get the impression someone is back with him– my connection with that person will be severed. I just won’t have any ‘six degrees of separation’ with Cockwaffle. Period.

        For now it’s been forensic, and getting as much closure as we can.
        It may never truly end– but I’m doing a bit of weed killing from my end to try to avoid anything further.

  27. Martha Pugh says:

    I don’t feel any of the choices-I have to relate to this person due to work-we live together or should I say after reading and educating myself, recognizing all the traits I just want this guy to leave-silent treatment great grey rock ok too-however Ive had enough and I know once he’s gone I’ll never wish him back. He has a new supply a place to live I don’t understand why he won’t leave-

  28. Serene says:

    I consulted with HG Tudor and he told me that I was an intelligent lady.

    If he said it then it must be true.

    No IQ test needed.

  29. I think there are many high-quality people, who are also very intelligent, who use emojis, and slang text.

    At times, it’s just more informal, friendlier, and even personable. I think emojis are really cute, too.

    I don’t feel comfortable when someone’s messages are entirely formal, rigid, and stiff.

    Being a high-quality person doesn’t mean one cannot enjoy fun, simplicity, and informalities.


    1. SMH says:

      Agreed, Nika. I can do ‘high culture’ when required and I can do ‘popular culture’ when required. I am comfortable moving between worlds but I take my cues from my environment and actually prefer fun and informality (though I do have this obsessive need to edit a lot – my rigidity). Usually it is fun and informal here, if often serious.

      1. Nika says:

        Yes… thank you, SMH ♥️ Also, thank you, HG, for posting my comment even though it was not in accordance with what you wrote about emojis and acronyms not being used by those of quality. I am not quoting you because I don’t have it in front of me what your exact words were. It’s just my opinion, that’s all.

        1. It Depends says:


          Quoting: “…thank you, HG, for posting my comment even though it was not in accordance with what you wrote about emojis and acronyms not being used by those of quality.”

          I have not seen Mr. Tudor’s quote but regarding the use of emojis, I must REALLY be low quality! 🤣🤣🤣 My boyfriend and I can have a five minute conversation by text using nothing but those witty and comical characters!!! I wonder what personality type invented them? Normal, narcissistic or empathetic??? I know on whom I would wager. 😼

    2. windstorm says:

      Hear, Hear!!! 👏👏👏

      1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        Windstorm, ya.

        BTW, I cannot reply to “It Depends On” because there is no Reply button after her post. I don’t want her to think I’m ignoring her. Maybe she’ll see this. I was just going to tell her that “maybe an INFP invented emojis” in reply to her question about who might have invented them.

        1. It Depends says:

          LOL, I have no idea why there is no reply button!!🤔. I like how you think!!! I had considered maybe an INFJ myself so I think we’re on the right track. 🎉 🎈 🎉

    3. WiserNow says:

      I feel the same way Nika. Abbreviations and emojis are friendly and informal and they can add to the point or tone of someone’s message. It also gives an indication of the writer’s style or personality.

      Emojis can convey the context and mood of the communication and also the dynamic between the writer and the reader. I don’t really think of it as being either “high-quality” or “low-quality”.

      I guess it’s a personal thing. I guess we all find different things either distracting or annoying.

      Personally, it distracts me more when I see comments here that have no punctuation at all. When I read messages that are just one long string of words with no commas, full-stops, or breaks between sentences, I feel as though I’m going a bit cross-eyed… 😵

      1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


        Thank you. I don’t really regard whether people use emojis or acronyms as a determining factor of their quality or worth.

        In my opinion, the things that you mentioned are very true.

        I think it’s adorable when a boyfriend has sent me texts with cute emojis in them.

        And, for some reason, I always smiled when someone texts me “lol”.

        I’m not a fan of “LMAO”, or “Bahahaha” and never use that, myself. It’s just not my particular style. But, if someone else does it, I don’t look down upon them.

        I get irritated if someone uses all capitals in paragraph-writing, or even single sentences. However, I still don’t regard even that as a person of “low quality”. But, I still don’t like it.

        Certain behaviors, even in writing, aren’t always so “cut & dry”, or one dimensional. There are many reasons behind why people do the things they do in which we might not be aware.

        Yes, I also agree with what you said about punctuation, though there are times when
        my device changes my words on me, on its own, and makes me look like I’m saying nonsensical words. 😊

        I think a good rule with emojis and acronyms- as with most things- is moderation.


        1. WiserNow says:

          Again Nika, I agree with you. I understand what you’re saying.

          It’s funny that even with something fairly trivial and unimportant like the use of emojis and texting shortcuts, the general empathic tendency to be non-judgemental and “democratic” is still clear.

          As you say, things are not always “cut & dry” or one-dimensional, and generally, any judgements are suspended for greater understanding, tolerance and empathy.

          Narcissists want and need to “win” and they tend to judge and rank things, however, empathic people would rather understand and accommodate individuality.

          1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:


            Wise words. Thank you. ♥️

          2. WiserNow says:

            Thank you to you also. Your initial comment about emojis struck a cord with me because I like using them in some situations and I find them cute and friendly too 🙂

      2. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dearest WiserNow and Nika – Survival 💜
        Did someone mention emojis …..😂
        I may be known to use one or two every now and then 😝
        Mr Tudor would back me on that, I’m sure 👿
        Nothing in “moderation” for me … live life, I say
        I over decorate for Christmas, birthdays, Easter
        Candles and fairy lights all year round
        I luv kids movies
        I luv “doing” voices
        Always playing board games with my adult kids
        I sing in the car
        Life is meant to be “fun”

        Narcs aren’t fun ….. period

        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    4. Harvard (TMM) says:

      Between this and IQ- I had no idea I’d steer conversation so far off topic.

      Emoji: I am fine with it, with people I know. If it is someone new, someone I’ve not yet met….it presents to me as lazy, and uninterested in actual conversation. Lack of effort. Lack of thought. Thus, in the dating and social engagement outset— I dislike men (and women) who use emoji’s in excess to get to know someone.

      My emoji now with the Cockwaffle’s former harem…is the avocado. We each have ones we use to refer to one another or to a situation— but that’s after bonding through talks, emails, chats, etc.

      So I DO use them- just not when flirting with someone NEW or getting to know someone in response to questions. As a side note, Cockwaffle’s favorite fuel-inducing response was the big black thumbs up. WE ALL HATE THAT ONE and it is banned from use unless the presenting party is pissed beyond belief.

      IQ: Good God. I’ll ratchet down- I can’t do math beyond functional life items. I’m lousy at it. My bedroom closet can be chaotic. I get pissy when I’m hungry. I own a ridiculous amount of hair products and scarves. I’m usually cold but rarely hot- even in high temps. I can’t stand flowery scents. I’ll go two weeks without vacuuming as I have a hound and anything of real issue gets hoovered up (pun intended) by him anyhow so it’s usually just lint left behind…. I’m not perfect- whatever IQ, and nobody else is either—- we’re all what we are. Numeric regardless.

      1. Nika - Survival 💜 says:

        TMM, I do understand. Thank you. Moderation is useful.

      2. WiserNow says:


        You’re completely free to think what you want to think about emojis and anything else. Please don’t take the above conversation about emojis and texting as being personally directed towards yourself. As far as I’m concerned, it wasn’t an “attack” or even a judgement about you, but rather an observation. I’m sorry if it came across as otherwise.

  30. ava101 says:

    Lucky me … I moved – just for this month, thank God – into a shared house with 2 other people. I rented a room in other words, but we share the kitchen.
    Turns out that one of the two guys is obviously a lesser narcissist and (I know this sound ridiculous) today, when I nicely in a normal way asked him not to use “my shelf” in the fridge, and not to be too noisy, especially as he brought another guy to stay with him in his room without telling us, he raised his hand to me. When I told the guy who is responsible here, he turned everything around, blame shiftet, lied, told the other guy I had said things I never have said … he has been one of the most self centered people I have ever lived with the past weeks, doing all the classic stuff you hate room mates for, but other things as well, and then he complained and complained that everything wasn’t clean enough, and that he had been doing nothing but cleaning … going on about how he was the only one doing anything around here (which is not true at all of course) …. But even with all my experience, it blew my mind how he just walked over me and turned everything around, and lied, and now the responsible guy doesn’t know what to believe.

    So, I have to engage more or less with this particular lesser narcissist, till I leave here …
    Any tips, anyone? 🙂

    1. DF says:

      Dear ava101,
      I have been in a similar situation at the workplace decades ago which simply dissolved into thin air because nobody was interested in the sicko or me. At that time I sent an e-mail to all concerned in which I simply stated that I had never said, done etc xyz. No resonance whatsoever, and I was very relieved.
      In times of surveillance everywhere, maybe cameras are now needed in some kitchens, too. Just a little thought experiment, as I understand you will be able to leave that place very soon: You install three obvious ones he would probably try to destroy and a fourth one he can’t see …
      Another thought: What would the narc guy do if you asked for a talk with both of them at the same time?
      All the best to you

      1. ava101 says:

        Thank you, DF!

        Ah I don’t dare to put up cameras … (I had that thought about a previous landlord though) …

        We had a talk the three of us, and the third guy obviously didn’t know who to believe.
        Well, I’ve been away this weekend, that was very nice. ;D
        However, the narc guy is a very smooth talker in typical narc fashion, also rhetorically schooled as a lawyer. … So, it looks like he has been pretty convincing. 🙁 He got the other guy to do what he wants.

        You had such a colleage, and it dissolved into thin air? Wow!!
        Yes, it will dissolve soon. Four weeks are a long time though when you can’t eat etc., get woken up …

        I can’t wait to have my own place again. It’s no good to share a house with strange guys in my case, view of the ocean, or not.

  31. K says:

    This thread is fun.

    I am 5’4″ and I look similar to Amy Farrah Fowler from Big Bang Theory when I have my reading glasses on (a nerd). I went to The School of Hard Knocks and got my ass thoroughly kicked and I grew up with lessers, so there were no IQ tests or quality education for me. I am a single unemployed mother and my job as a school librarian is completely voluntary. For fun, I love to make dinner for the kids and read.

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      You are bite size! Amy is very cute!! I didn’t know you are a librarian! I learned something new lol!!

      1. K says:

        Dr. Q
        Yeah, I am a cool/nerdy librarian and I like it. You can’t get into too much trouble there, which is a good thing for me.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Oh come on now lol… everyone knows you can get into trouble at the library 😏…

        The stacks at stony brook have seen some serious action …

        I’m just saying 😉

        1. K says:

          Dr. Q
          True, I used to make out with my “library boyfriend” in non-fiction.

    2. tigerchelle78 says:

      School of Hard Knocks is best school I think K. I went there too. Didn’t get IQ tests, too busy surviving life I guess! At the same time, if someone has managed to have a high IQ and intelligence, I am happy for them. Higher intellect, and education doesn’t necessarily equal more happiness.

      1. K says:

        We just got a different type of education at The School of Hard Knocks and that isn’t so bad. You just have to work with what you have and make the best of it and, irrespective of IQ, I am quite happy with life now, so it is all good.

    3. Quasi says:

      It’s a pleasure to make your acquaintance wonderful K..

      Due to my abysmal maths my IQ would be well below average- my geography is awful too. I did well in subjects I enjoyed.
      I would say I have more emotional intelligence then IQ. Even then I question my intellect in both arena’s on the daily!

      1. K says:

        Hello Sweet Quasi!
        My spelling and punctuation is horrible but, like you, my emotional IQ is probably higher than my IQ. I really enjoyed English Literature and usually did well in that subject.

        As long as we are functioning well in our reality, than it is all good. And Google is a bit of an equalizer because you can look up so much information which helps narrow information asymmetry.

        To be honest, I just like people who are genuine and kind like the bloggers here.

        1. MB says:

          K, I’ll never forget what my Human Anatomy teacher said, “Erection is the great equalizer.” If that is true, ((and I have no reference to know) maybe we should ask NA re: The Texan.))

          Maybe the same can be said for Google. The great IQ equalizer.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Well why do you think Edward Woodward was the Equalizer?

          2. MB says:

            I don’t know Edward Woodward, HG. I suppose I should get to Googling.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            RAD trained British actor who played The Equalizer in the TV show of the same name.

          4. MB says:

            You’re quite The Equalizer yourself Mr. Tudor. Weaponizing and taking names.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            All I will say to that is:
            He could not lay claim to being “a grower and not a shower”.
            When blood rushes to his penis, he is in no danger of becoming light-headed. He already is.

          6. MB says:

            You’re so funny NA. I guess he wasn’t a grower or a shower. Poor guy.

          7. K says:

            Thanks to google, I found HG on YouTube and everything that I have learned about NPD from HGU is more accurate than what the experts have learned in university. For the most part, they are clueless.

    4. SMH says:

      Awesome again, K. I also went to The School of Hard Knocks but I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and shot straight through that glass ceiling, only to bang my head on the steel beam that is MRN.

      1. windstorm says:

        Well WordPress won’t let me like this comment so – like!

      2. K says:

        Ha ha ha…they don’t call it The School of Hard Knocks for nothing. No more head banging for us from now on…hopefully.

    5. Renarde says:


      Good for you on being a volunteer librarian!

      You kinky fucker! They’re the worst! 😘

      Oh my gerrd…. An emoji HG! An actual emoji!


      1. K says:

        Thank you Renarde
        Ha ha ha…kinky with a sliver of sadism. Being a librarian is a great facade when you think about it.

        1. Renarde says:

          It’s an utterly brilliant one! x

    6. mollyb5 says:

      K , I’m 5’4 too …teehee

      1. K says:

        5’4 is damn sexy mollyb5!

        1. windstorm says:

          You tall people quit bragging! I’m 5’2”

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Pipe down half pint!

          2. K says:

            Half pint, ha ha ha….5’2” is sexy as Hell!

          3. windstorm says:

            Dean Martin had a song,
            “Five foot two, eyes of blue
            But oh, what those five foot could do…”

          4. Clarece says:

            WS, we have the same bday and we’re both 5’2! Do you have blue eyes too?

          5. windstorm says:

            Yes, my eyes are dark blue, formerly dark blonde hair, now grey. I could be one of your crazy aunts! 😜

  32. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    I mean listen, I can understand why the description rubbed some people the wrong way and could be perceived in a certain way; however I don’t think that it’s fair to start ripping out Harvard’s insides and kicking her in a vulnerable state. We all have our ways of coping with things and yes I must admit that I cope in a similar way to Harvard. She isn’t hurting anyone or offending anyone.

    1. IdaNoe says:

      Dear Dr. There are a lot of severely wounded people here, as well as people who are in very dangerous situations. They, me included, already feel leveled to the ground or worse, ground into a big deep hole. We’ve all been repeatedly told how we dont measure up, how we’re not enough on any level, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually and sexually. I dont think its helpful or healthy for anyone to be told again, in the healing process, of how they don’t measure up. And that is exactly what she did and then defended it with, well I want everybody to know smart people can be manipulated too, like the rest of us are beneath her. That’s her world, not mine. She fresh meat in mine. The people who WERE in my life would literally consume her. So comparing war stories and how you handled them is one thing, but leveling people with what she considers attributes in her world is another. I dont expect any other person here to live by my convictions or standards, I also don’t act like they are inferior because they aren’t like me.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I completely understand your perspective – why you feel the way you feel – and feel for you. I know how terrible that feels. I know we all cope differently. I understand if she rubbed some people the wrong way and they then made a comment after that would indicate their annoyance but the woman has explained herself. I feel like she in no way deserved to be brutalized comment after comment after comment. I can’t sit back and watch people kick someone else when they are down. Furthermore, she never actually attacked anyone. I don’t understand why some people need to constantly start pointing fingers at people throwing names and labels at people. People often jump to conclusions about who is who …who is pretending to be someone else…who is a narcissist. The straight up reality is that you cannot diagnose NPD or any personality disorder through some kind of forum – a look into someones history and current behavior as well as multiple pieces of data would be required. I also don’t believe in bullying people and this like group mentality of ganging up on someone. This is not the first or second time this has happened here. There are people who careless throw thoughtless, callous, and impulsive words around not knowing what the other person is going through. There are plenty of people on this site who have significant mental health concerns in addition to being abused by narcissists and psychopaths. These words…you have no idea how they will impact someone else on the other end of the screen. No one knows the other persons true history or struggle. There are ways of communicating ideas in a way that is not hurtful or judgmental. I try my best to communicate my ideas in a kind way but I admit I am human and have moments too- we all have emotional moments – we all fuck up. I will tell you this…I will not partake in bullying other people or ostracizing other people on this site. I refuse to allow other people to do it to other people. I’m not part of a clique-like mentality. If I disagree or have a different perspective I will share it and that will be that. I will not push the issue any further. I don’t want to become the very thing that I hate because I don’t know how to find ways to channel/direct my anger appropriately. All of this stuff I have just written is not directed at you – I’m just sharing my perspective.

      2. Bibi says:

        Well stated, Ida.

      3. Renarde says:

        Yes, there is truth in this. I perceive we are all different. Not superior or inferior. A bone fide E will also react the same way although unevolved Es have a tendency… thorough lack of self-confidence, to naturally assume that on some level, they are not worthy of love. Or rather it is a lack if self esteem through usually many years of abuse and neglect.

        It’s an honour being here and bearing witness to these many brave accounts of abuse.

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Previous article

Cherished and Chastised