Poll : What Causes You To Continue To Engage With The Narcissist

POLLHG WANTSTO KNOW

What keeps making you engage with the narcissist?

This does not include the narcissist hoovering you, it is about what causes you to spend time with the narcissist, or message the narcissist, or keep doing things for the narcissist, or talking about the narcissist to other people and also thinking about the narcissist. So keep in mind, just because you may not be spending time physically with the narcissist you may still be engaging in some way (and thus of course increasing your emotional thinking).

What drives that repeated engagement? Are you pining for the golden period and when you get flashes of benign treatment from the narcissist does that make you engage further in the hope of getting more? Perhaps you want to ruin the narcissist’s life so you are engaging in order to achieve that? Maybe the truthseeker is strong in you and you are engaging in order to get the narcissist to give you an explanation for why you have been treated in the way you have or perhaps to convey to the narcissist how you feel about the way you have been hurt or angered? Perhaps you just do not know and you feel compelled to keep thinking, to keep calling or waiting for a moment to go and see the narcissist.

You may choose up to three responses which are applicable to your situation and as ever do expand on your thoughts in the comments section.

Thank you for participating.

 

What has caused YOU to continue engaging with the narcissist?

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705 thoughts on “Poll : What Causes You To Continue To Engage With The Narcissist”

  1. General Statement…

    Can we all just try and be supportive of each other? I don’t think it’s fair to start attacking other people in general – especially at their lowest point. We all may not like each other or always agree but it’s awesome to hear different perspectives from people all over the world who have different experiences.

    Also – can we please leave Harvard alone – she has been through a lot of abuse as well. It is so easy to take things the wrong way via text. You lose the inflection in the voice and the body language. There is also a lot of context missing.

    1. If I offended- I apologize.
      I did feel set upon with initial postings…but I am just breathing…and letting it go.

      We’re all here for a reason….and trying to cope.

      1. Harvard (TMM) You didn’t offend me but I did feel insecure. Because I have spent so much time trying to please the narcissist trying to get approval from the narcissist. But no matter how hard I tried nothing was ever good enough. My insecurities are not your problem. You are one of HG’s readers so welcome.

  2. I think honestly now thinking about this again it is….

    Boredom/addiction withdrawals. And just to curiously test the waters.

    They are like a drug, and sometimes I need a fix. Terrible I know but just being honest! Just started emailing with one again, after about 8 months no contact. He gave me a long silent treatment last time ….so wasn’t even sure he would reply. He says he has a girlfriend in Vienna.

    He says to me: “he does better face to face with someone than email or text”. But I try to keep it online and non intimate. I’ve just had such lines as:

    “I feel like I’ve known you forever, as you were young when we first met, but I never knew your history back then.”

    ” Our relationship is complicated. Many I’ve met are insipid but you are not. I find you very interesting and unique.”

    ” We are both enigma’s it would seem. I don’t play games with you, want to trip you up or nothing else to your detriment.”

    ” I prefer intimate friendships, and I enjoy communication with you.”

    Trying to politely withdraw. I do actually care about this person, as I’ve known him all through out my life, but from a distance. I don’t want to completely lose him, but at the same time I can’t be with him. Thank goodness he is moving to France soon as he says he has just put a deposit on a cottage in France.

    I think I must be the narc too because I did the hoovering this time. I am sometimes impulsive, and just think I don’t care.
    This is a drug that gives you a high, and then you get sick after, and it hurts so bad.
    Often he will message me for a while, then disappears off the face of the planet. I’ve always been addicted to this type. Sometimes I have better control over that addiction. Other times I do not.
    It is what it is.
    I was doing so well for a while….. Now I have to go through the cycle again. But then have been under much turmoil and stress lately with three lots of unexpected upsetting news within same week so I think I just lost it. Now I hate myself.

    1. tigerchelle78,

      I was with my narc for 6 years and went through all that you described. Certainly there were other factors in my relationship that made things worse, as his oldest daughter being a narcissist herself and the collisions between them…. but… the bottom line is that I had to make some tough decisions and take responsibility for my own choices, specially after meeting HG and reading his work. I had to come to terms with the fact that while I keep communication open with the narc, while my phone line is free for him to reach out to me, I won’t be able to move on; I won’t be able to fully engage with another guy, because the binding is there, the connection is there and deep inside I know I will compare every guy to him, unless I find a greater to top him off, which I don’t want to because I am tired of this cycle.

      I am loyal. I just am. I am devoted. I am honest. I could never do to my narc what he did to me, in terms of sleeping around, lying, faking and all that. I am not a narc. I don’t do those things.

      If my narc would never had treated me poorly as he did in these last 3 months, if I had not seen the cracks in his facade towards me, directed at me as I experienced it, I would never leave him. I am being honest. Even with all the suspicions that I had, I would not leave him.

      So, with that, start it fresh and move on from now. Don’t keep staring at the lost ground. Maybe you needed this last communication to finally have the feeling that “it is NOT going to change” settled inside, so now you can move on without the buts and ifs. This little bit of fuel that you get back to yourself is an illusion…

      You are saying goodbye to something that it is dying. You know it is dying, you feel that it is dying and you look at it for the last time before it is totally gone under those deep waters…. like Titanic did. Let it go.

      We are here for you….. ((hugs))….

      1. Kathy Mor

        Thank you very much for your response. I’m so sorry for what you have gone through. Its such emotional turmoil.

        I feel selfish as I have a wonderful husband. He takes care of me. But I feel like I’ve missed out on such a lot in life and not experienced half of what I feel like I need. Maybe I just think I need it. I know this guy could show me a good time, that it would be exciting, and he has the money to take me anywhere. I know he likes me, or rather likes my fuel. He has always showed interest. Hoovered me many times over the years. Often wanting to have some kind of secret relationship. Triangulating me with this other female. Trying to work me out. He knows… He knows what I want….but can’t. It would cause too much hurt, and damage. So I cannot be selfish like that.
        But the yearning sits within me. I will never let him have the satisfaction of knowing that though.

        I force myself to concentrate on the consequences of such actions.
        Its only here where I know others will truly understand. I just needed to let out my true feelings.

        I’m just crying all the time, (trying to hide it from my husband) because you are so right…. I am saying goodbye. That is exactly what I’m doing with withdrawing. This is what I do. And I knew that. I did just want to feel it one more time, that drug. But yes, it has to die. You are correct! I need to purge….

        Letting go is so painful! I hate loss. But then I should not have stirred it up again, so I deserve it. Yes I know all too well its an illusion. I’m glad I do know that. It helps to know he does not care, it is only me that does.

        I will mourn this loss just like I have every other….

        Thank you for your support….

        Sometimes living is so painful is it not?!

      2. Yes it can be painful.
        I feel the loss as well. Last night I was thinking that while I am here alone, he is there with someone else. And then I thought: is it really a “gain” that he is with someone else? Or is that illusory state of having a relationship with someone who doesn’t exist, when he doesn’t exist to himself. Is that a gain?

        I wish I could tell you to share with husband, but you can’t. He may not understand it. Besides, you have to remember: you are mourning the loss of a barbaric wolf who would not think twice about destroying you, your family, your children.
        You would lose everything that you have for sex, because that is what it would be: fucking. That’s all. And maybe once only, then he would dumb you, like an used rag.

        You must convince yourself of that. You must believe in that. Because if the hormones talk louder, you will get in trouble.
        We always want what we can’t have. Then when we have it, we want what we lost.
        I don’t have a husband. I am doing this now so I don’t go through that in the future when I have one…
        We are here for you.
        Trust my words: no pleasure is worth the barbaric devaluation and discard.

        but I keep telling myself: you can’t lose what you never had.

      3. Kathy Mor

        I appreciate your words of wisdom at this time. I really do. I needed some sense right now, amongst all my emotion and feelings.

        It all seems so tempting and wonderful in our imagination, but I know better than to trust that. I’ve been here before believe it or not. (Different circumstances, was single then, and it nearly killed me – I did lose everything because of him, including my sanity at the time, and I would have probably died for him how much I loved him).

        I won’t go down that road again…..

        It took a lot of strength to leave him, we shall call him M1, but I left him in my 20s, I’m 41 now. Once I regained some inner strength when realising M1 was not going to marry me and was just future faking, amongst many other things, I made up my mind to leave. He tried his hardest to not make me go. Then when I went, M1 came looking for me, he phoned literally non-stop. I had to destroy my phone, sim card and get a new one because my patrinarc said I couldn’t come back home to live unless I did. I had nowhere else to go as was living in a female youth hostel thanks to M1. M1 turned up at places where I was. He wrote letters, he tried to reach my friends and find out from them what I was doing….. He even risked coming around to my home, and came knocking on the door, and I did still give in and see him a few more times, without my patrinarc knowing. He came when my father was at work. My father absolutely hated him and wanted to kill him. My father scheming and planning all the while I was with M1. I was in between two narcs. Both intimate relationships. Both wanted my fuel. Both willing to go against the other narc to get it. Both telling me lies about the other, yeah, long story!

        But I won’t go there again. My hubby is not a narc, but let’s just say I wouldn’t like to get on his bad side either. I can’t and won’t hurt him. He does know about this other guy, we shall call him M2 and hubby has sent him texts, but M2, doesn’t even acknowledge him. Its like he doesn’t exist to him. Its really strange. But M2 is very similar to M1. Same type. But this one is richer and I’m married now.

        I know I got to resist this. But as always they make it difficult. I’ve spent such a lot of my time with narcs, that being with someone regular is not thrilling, and can be boring, but I can’t give all I have up for a thrill and another exciting but painful rollercoaster ride! Maybe some would, its their choice, but I won’t go there again.

        If I’ve read lots of HG’s books and been on his site and listened to YouTube videos, etc and not learnt how to handle and what to do about narcs by now, then what the hell is the point?!
        Its all wasted learning/reading and time, if you do not actually apply what you read. Its easy to learn and read, but applying it is the hard part, and that’s not something HG can do for us. We have to do that bit! And I plan to!

      4. I need to say this…. the pain that you are feeling is a warning. Mercy’s posting keeps coming to my mind when she said that every time with her narc always felt as if it was the last time. I felt exactly the same way. If I had paid attention to the pain I felt I would realize what it was telling me.
        Yours isn’t different. The pain of letting go is telling you what you will feel if you don’t. Times 1000.

      5. You are right Kathy… I’ve felt this same pain before. I know it well.
        My other longer comment will tell you why…..sorry HG. Some long ones to get through. You must be a fast reader. Us women can really talk when we get going….

      6. Kathy and Tiger,
        Thinking of him with someone else is still really painful, I’m looking forward to the day he moves out of my head.
        Tiger, please don’t risk it all for someone who doesn’t think of you as anything but an appliance.
        Kathy, after the very first meeting with my exnarc, he kissed me goodbye in such a way that it curled my toes and left me breathless. Hottest kiss ever. In a restaurant parking lot. He said at the time that each goodbye kiss should be as though it were the last one. At the time I thought it was so romantic. Now I just want to chastise myself for being so … fill in the blank, I’ve said it all.

      7. tigerchelle78,

        I have been in a similar circumstance. I am married and seduced by a narc. I 100% take responsibility and I 100% would not do it again could I rewind time.

        I had great chemistry with my narc and wondered if he was my soulmate. I talked with him for years without having sex with him. And then I did. One of the biggest mistakes of my life. My husband has a little temper and is not perfect, but he is sweet and loving and did not deserve what I did. No one does.

        I ended up finding out that my narc slept around and future faked with several women. All the sweet loving words he said, did not match his actions. He wasn’t completely horrible at the end, but I wonder if he was just being that way to keep me on the back burner. We were off and on for years. I’m sure he thinks he will be able to sweet right back in, but I have HG and his teachings to protect me.

        My narc did horrible, hurtful dishonorable things to women. I am so glad I am not with him anymore. I only wish I never gave him the chance to be with me and just stayed true to my husband. Or if my husband wasn’t right, I should have dealt with that issue separately.

  3. I haven’t voted because none of them apply to me.
    I have no contact with the nex and haven’t done so for 11 months!! Go me!!

    The only Narc I know of is HG.
    The reason I keep engaging is because I find him interesting, entertaining, insightful and my curiosity is peaked regarding his perspectives and agendas. I have shared HG with friends and family because they need him for understanding and I think he’s offering something nobody else is – a genuine GEN Pyschopath perspective.

    I used to be scared of him but I’m not now.
    I see him as a helpful colleague who has helped my friends and family – and of course me! (truly, thank you for helping my friend!).

    1. You have no reason to be scared of me, you do not know me, nor do I know you. Thank you for sharing my work.

    1. That is a good one shesaw. Yes, it was a life lesson and maybe that is why they will never cease to exist. They stay and move on to the next level

      1. Kathy, I hope it turns out to be a good one (the life lesson). It was a dark one, that’s for sure!

  4. There is one that is not on the list. I’m sticking in my work place to see him getting his Karma, may be I’ll never see as he is too good at protecting his image. But we will see, this third girl may never get the devaluation as we others got and others may never know that he is the crazy one. But I’m hoping.

  5. I am not in contact with my ex anymore. The only narcissist I engage with is HG. For me, I wanted the Golden Period back and I definitely returned for the sex. I also wanted him to admit he hurt me not realizing of course that will never happen. I am still working on the letting go which is very difficult.

    1. Argghh! The sexy times are difficult. I’m with a UMSN at the moment. Very addictive. Sex alone though wouldn’t cut the mustard. He’s very good company too. But as I’m aware, he can never get too close. I also run a system of other checks and balances with high functioning Ns that are part of my own matrix.

      When I started this system, I became naturally uptight. Now it’s been running for some time, I’m relaxing into it. It can be done. And at little emotional cost as long as you are ruthlessly aware of your own nature and therfore your own expectations on the reality of the situation.

      I take it for what it is. And no more.

      Hope this helps.

      1. Renarde
        I could not run a system like that. I am very aware of my own nature and therefore no contact for me is the only solution.

      2. It’s a good point. Who knows what the future holds? The issue I have is that unless I wish to live under a rock, this will always go on. So the onus is on me to learn how to manage it rather than attempt (unsuccessfully) to change myself or live apart from others.

        However, I do agree that in most instances, GOSO and NC should be implemented.

      3. I am unfamiliar with your situation Renarde. As much as I wanted to be with my ex, the abuse was too much so I escaped. I am now NC and on my journey of healing.

      4. Then I think you’re doing absolutely the right thing. As I’m (presuming) one of his IPSS’s, I am not – nor ever have been – subject to a devaluement. If I HAD been, then it would be a different story.

        Yeah sure, his behaviour gets on my nerves at times but I can see clearly what the picture is and I let him about his business. Is that kind of behaviour abusive?

        I think this is a really interesting point. How do we define ‘abuse’. Is there a standard that we can all agree on that is abusive or is it a spectrum where others’ tolerate actions that some people wouldn’t? Personally, it depends on the individual I’m engaging with.

        As this one is unaware, I can see clearly that a lot of the issues that surround him are caused by his own behaviours. Not malicious behaviours (certainly, self-centered ones) but just how he conducts his life in general.

        I think once I reached this point, I began to ease off and be less rigid and more ‘go with the flow’. That is much better for my own mental health.

        As I have repeatedly told him, I am not free to love so let’s just enjoy this for what it is. That doesn’t mean to say that I have never been abused by an N. I have. repeatedly. Some have driven me to the brink of sanity and even my own life. There is no point crying over spilt milk. I cannot help who I am at my core any more than they can. Sure the Es and the Greaters’ can ‘tinker at the edges’ but largely, we are who we are and that’s never going to change. hence my more pragmatic approach.

        I must admit though, the problem of dating and relationships does bother me. I’m seriously thinking about consulting HG on the Date Defender for a set of fresh (and expert eyes) because I am all out of ideas. It’s truly a stalemate.

      5. I am not sure if I will ever date again. This relationship nearly destroyed me but I am the winner in the end. I can learn to heal my inner self and that is something he will never have. I know if I ever meet someone I am interested in, I will be consulting HG on the Date Defender. I find it intriguing that I am finding healing from HG, a narcissist.

      6. I think you probably will lovely, it will just take time and a heap of reflection and self-knowledge.

        Look; am living proof of that myself thanks to HG. The bigger question for me is not dating, it’s the ‘L’ word. I am seeing someone who does bring me much pleasure and companionship. He is not abusing me. The minute he tries to then I will leave.

        But love? That I am so not sure about.

      7. Sorry for late response. I don’t think there was a notification from WordPress. What writing did I inspire?

  6. This is a question i ask myself daily and theres no one answer its a combination of reasons but codependancy being at the forefront.
    If i had no codependancy issues id still engage with him bc i do love and care about him but a lot would change to the extent he possibly would not want to be engaging with me.
    If i didnt have codependancy on him in any way id just want to be friends. I wouldnt want there to be any expectations or schedule. Id like to hook up and chat. Catch up on our lives but only as friends. Id try and patch things up in my marriage and work on myself which ive been doing. However with being friends comes accepting changes like him openly involved with other women which im sure he is anyways. Also him not there for me like he is now.
    I dont think its entirely possible to maintain friendship with a narc bc they arent true genuine friends. If theyre not getting their needs and expectations met they will resort to mind games and tactics or discard/disengage.

  7. Let’s see

    Your work is unattainable anywhere else.
    Your writings not only stir the imagination yet emotion.
    Your brutally truthful, and not honest about what we deal with.
    You are like the universe dark, mysterious and hold knowledge yet to discover.
    You have a way of being able to convey information to the masses and individually.
    You created a place where we can find support that helps us grow rather then continuing on the merry go round.
    You understand, you validated, you listen.
    Your work is like a exquisite blade, once learned, one will always be able to protect themselves at a distance or close quarters.

    This list could continue on, I believe I made my point on why I continue to engage with the only one of your kind I “see”, you HG, none of the others stand up to you. You have my admiration and my respect.

  8. This was a very difficult poll because the only one I could go with was “I don’t know, I just can’t let go.” (Although I can let go and have many times).
    I apologise if anything has already been said in here.

    Yes, you can hope all you like that they may change but it won’t get you anywhere. They may only pretend to change somewhat. But it will be for their benefit only.

    Golden period! Is fun, exciting, and whatever, but that was all an illusion anyway. Ask yourself…. Why would you want an illusion back?

    Sex fantastic?! Wouldn’t know and don’t care!

    I know they won’t or rather cannot recognise what they’ve done and even if they did so they don’t care.

    Co-parenting for me doesn’t apply, but I would imagine this has many and varied challenges.

    Wanting a narcissist to explain ANYTHING is like getting blood out of a stone!

    There is some curiosity of what narc is doing and who with, but its all just a fake pretense anyway to look good. You know they are always empty and sucking up fuel wherever they can find it just to survive. The person they are with is being abused.

    Narcissist being a colleague doesn’t apply to me but did before, and it was hell.

    I don’t want the narcissist to be with someone else. Hmmmm….Yeah, quit thinking like that, because they HAVE to be with someone. If you think for one moment you were special, think again! They need someone always to hold them up.

    Owing money I guess could be a pull/stress to some. But you are better off just losing the money than your very self and soul.

    Wanting to ruin a narcs life is tempting. But depends what narc you’re dealing with.
    If you get it wrong, or you are unsure on how to proceed, your life and the lives of your family/friends and property etc are at risk. So best to be sure.
    Unless you can scheme and plan meticulously like a narc and have the means and absolute confidence to carry out what you wish to do, (without getting caught) and have the necessary alibi’s in place and possibly also a plan B in case plan A fails, then just don’t even go there. They plan and think about these things for months even years in advance! Unless you are prepared to do the same, stop thinking about it and just move on, and GOSO!

    Having a family member as a narc is difficult because you do feel guilty, they rely on our guilt, that is until you just decide one day, “no, you do not deserve to be in my life anymore.”

  9. I have high octane fuel that emits from me in a golden stream when I squat. In my spare time, when I am not working as an ER surgeon and teaching Mandarin at the university level, I wrestle polar bears.

    But this is only after I grew bored from my mathematics degree where everyone else was just constantly stealing my theorems. It must be due to my being so voluptuous and that my vagina smells like roses.

    It’s all part of being a magnet super empath, I tell you.

    Kathy: I agree with you 100%. Taking one’s self too seriously and zero humor. My eyes cannot roll far back enough into my head.

    1. Bibi,

      Haha. That made me laugh!

      Being able to spot the covert narcs here so easily is a testament to how far we’ve all come and how effective HG’s teaching is.

      Love your sense of humour

    2. Bibi,
      you are the best! I needed that laughter!
      What can I say? Where there is fuel, there is life, even at the costs of getting mauled.

    3. Bibi
      Ha ha ha…that was a riot! There is never a dull moment on narcsite. This thread just keeps getting better and better as the day goes on.

  10. Yes. You will have to fight fire with a lasting bonfire.
    Now, before I speak my mind, I want to make you and others aware that I can only speak for myself, for my experience dealing with a dangerous narc psychopath: my ex husband.

    I was married to him for 13 years. I barely mention him because I didn’t fall in love with him. He did not snare me in sexually or emotionally. It was a completely different dynamic than we actually see here. I didn’t have time to get sexually addicted to him because he did not like sex. Moreover, people are not his addiction. Alcohol is. If a bottle of beer were alive and could give him endless beer, he could be giving head to it 24/7 non stop. Sounds crude but it is true. Therefore, he was asexual. He could care less about sex because his drug of choice was alcohol and then later on pills and then later on illegal drugs.

    Nevertheless, the whole narcissistic dynamic was there. The pulling away, irresponsibility, coming back with regrets, drinking again, devaluating me, triangulating me with his co-workers, and his drinking buddies, and calling me insecure… all that bs. Same dynamic.

    So, that is one difference.

    The second aspect for you to keep in mind as you read my postings is that not every empath is the same. I thrive on a different level than simply emotions and feelings. This is not to say that I am the only who does this but this is to say that not everyone can and should do this. I don’t force. This is how I have always been since I was born.

    Besides the emotional aspect, there are different levels of psych development and that is regard how an empath can not only experience people’s emotions but also what an empath can see lurking behind the picture. The eerie feelings. The ability to pick up the wavelengths of the energies that permeate the narcissist and make sense of what you see. The ability to get into the darkness and see….

    It does take discernment to know if what you see in your mind’s eyes is you projecting out of fear or terror or if you are actually picking up these waves crashing from them. And the fact that they are devoid of the emotions we can usually see in normal people but instead the reflect back at you, can be even more difficult. it took me a while tapping into it and only after I came here and started reading HG is that I began making sense of what I was dealing with. Pretty much I used my instincts to get here.

    However, I hope that my words can shed some light into your reality, your capabilities and strength. Don’t do as I did. Do as you know you can do in agree with the type of narcissist you are dealing with.

    My ex husband is a narc, a dangerous one and when he started messing up with my child, my darkest side came to life and it remains a lasting evil force against him.

    He is now in jail. He got himself in there. In a moment of fury, he shot someone. However, before that, I built an arsenal of pictures, emails, messages, copies of his hard drive, you name it…. all that I could gather during the time I had access to his things and the time he had visitation rights. I had everything prepared when he got arrested on his own.

    My biggest lesson in dealing with him happened, in a moment of rage because I did not agree to his divorce stipulations. He got up, towered over me and told me that he was going to kill me, hoping that intimidation would shatter me. I got up calmly, grabbed my things and walked away. He expected some reaction. He got none…that he could see.
    I knew he was trying to scare me and by doing so I sensed the fear behind his threats. I learned what he was REALLY afraid of because I paid attention to what parts of the divorce decree he was getting more and more altered. I used those parts to nail him down.

    He says that I am the coldest evil bitch he ever met in his entire life and his demons are my creation. Oh yes, of course. Of course. He is such a sweet angel, isn’t he? 🙂

    He calls me a selfish bitch narcissist who will die in hell and I always tell him with a cold smile: I am already in hell with you in my life. What is new?

    And he knows my capabilities too well. Ask me for demons and I will give you legions. Try me and you will repent.

    Does that stop him? No because he doesn’t understand it and what narcs can’t understand and control is of no interested to them.

    My gain. I watch him go round and round each time.

    He knows that if anything happens to me, he is bound to stay in jail. I have attorneys available on a retainer fee, ready to fire. One of them is a female attorney, smart as the devil himself. Her father is one of the court judges. She always tells me she is ready to be “unleashed”, if needed.

    I have his own family in my hands as they only have access to my son under my strict conditions. His father, another narc is very sensitive to the fact that I may cut off their visitations (grandparents have NO rights), so he will eat his son’s liver if something displeases me (as they put it). So, everyone plays “fair” against their will. Yeah well, life is not fair, is it?

    These days he has no money and whatever he makes, I will take in child support, which he owes my son a considerable amount. No prospective of job… chances are he will be back to that hell hole where he is now, but we shall see. The creature is resourceful.

    Yet, he gets what he deserves with me. I warned him many, many times. You mess with me, I handle it. You mess with MY child, and you will see a whole different entity coming out of me. My fury is not explosive. It is ever lasting. I will drag this until I am done with him on my own terms.

    I think this is the dark side of an empath. No one can convince me otherwise. I calculate my steps by inches never missing the big picture and what I want the end result to be.

    I hate this side of me as it pushes me to feel very, very lonely. But my son is my treasure. My sweet boy and anyone who tries to hurt him will meet Satan himself.

    I post this here because I have no intention to hurt anyone. Otherwise, I would keep this as my “dirty secret”. If I want something, not even death will stop me… because death is just a new beginning of a much more powerful energetic state.

    Again, this is my dark side and I apologize if it offends some of my kind but this is who I am. I am not bragging, I am just being very honest. I keep this tightly under control, never abusing the power given. I can easily dwell in light and bring healing or I easily dwell in darkness and bring annihilation. Just give me a reason.
    I know some of you here are just like me. I have seen those sparkles.

    So, my advice to you, since I sense that you are desperate (for lack of a better word), is to begin by reading about the grey rock method of dealing with a narcissist. I had no clue what it was. I just did it intuitively because I could see the narcs in my life attentively responding to my emotions. They feed off your emotions and reactions so they can plan the next steps on that. You need to retain some control if you want to start moving forward. Second, read HG’s material. Also, I would advise you to get a consultation with him. It may give you a in depth idea of what you are dealing with and what you need to do to protect yourself and your child. HG is brilliant. The only narc I respect and must say admire.

    You have to be smart, have self-control, and be emotionally cold. That your child will get the backlash, that is inevitable. Just accept that because there is nothing you can do to get his rights away, until the worse happens and we want to avoid that. There are things that you can do to minimize the effects and to help your child to understand it and (I am sorry for saying this but ..) to teach him techniques to manipulate his father to some degree to where he can be safe.

    Make sure your divorce decree does not have any clauses stating that he cannot simply show up when he has visitation rights. Mine tried that crap and I shove the paper up his butt. I will come and go as I want. I will call and my son better be able to talk to me and I better not sense one quivering in his voice.

    Begin building the arsenal. In my case, it was easier because he was into drugs/alcohol post our marriage so it became easier to document his insanity. But I would start with teachers, school counselors. Be very present in his school, as much as your time allows you to be.

    Document everything. Communication has to be in written form preferably. If you can record phone calls is ok, but the court prefers written communication where they can track where it came from. FORWARD messages because the forward button keeps the original sender’s IP address and etc… Save every message even the most “innocent” ones. Document every event that “feels” strange, for instance: he took (son’s name) to the park today (date) at 2 pm, particularly if something is off about the whole thing and/or if your child comes home and you sense something different. Document and don’t, don’t, don’t ignore red flags. Don’t downplay anything. Don’t minimize anything. If your gut feeling tells you something is wrong is because something IS wrong. Keep your attorney at hand. You are paying for it, ask questions specifically about your situation. You need an attorney. Don’t go into this without legal support or you will sink.

    Be polite. Don’t show emotions, including fear. Don’t partake in back and forth rudeness. Keep communication to a minimum. Most importantly: talk to your child. Hover quietly over them but hover, like an eagle watching the prey from a distance. Again, if your gut feeling says something is up, then something is up.

    I hope this helps… ((hug))

      1. thank you but I don’t know about the awesome part…. I just had way too many narcs in my life… am I done with them?
        I hope so but sometimes real life feels like magical thinking: where are the normal guys hiding?????

    1. I LOVE this post, Kathy. Thanks for being so honest. It really struck a chord with me. I put up with horrific abuse from my lesser narc ex husband for years, but as soon as he went for our daughter that was it. I snapped into action and my “dark empath” came out (and is still out) to protect her at any cost. My dark side is a force to be reckoned with, unfortunately, I still can’t use it to protect myself. I’m working hard on that though and hopefully one day I’ll manage it. Even though my daughter is 19 now I am still super vigilant, I would honestly kill him if he harmed her.

      1. Bibi,
        Yours too. Especially the high octane fuel posting. It was a killer! Slay my friend, slay!

    2. Thank you very much Kathy Mor, for the sake of my son I will return to this writing of yours and read it again when the time for my fight has come.

      1. You are welcome DF. I hope it goes ok. It is never an easy thing and is a constant battle. Just make sure you utilize resources you have available before the battle after battle exhausts you…

    3. Our stories have a lot of similarities! I’ve been IPPS to 3 Fucking psychos (no offense HG) and IPSS to 1. I am a complete mess, and oh so done.
      Anywayz… nice to read your story Thanks for sharing. Here’s some sparkles for your day 😘💖💖

  11. I don’t engage with the nex anymore. I am, and have stayed; no contact. HG is my replacement narc

    Tbh, the golden period is difficult to forget…

    1. Jasmine

      I made a conscious effort not to replace my previous narcissist with HG because I knew that it was a distinct possibility and no good could come of it. I’m not going to lie, I have imagined more than once what a golden period with HG would be like (I’m sure I’m not alone) and whether it would be worth the pain. I go from thinking, of course it would definitely be worth it, to thinking about his current IPPS and knowing the inevitable pain, devastation and brutal discard that will befall her sometime in the future, probably when she least expects it. I imagine it to feel akin to being grabbed from behind in a dark alley, followed by the realisation that one is about to be murdered by a stranger and powerless to fight back. I find that that keeps my addiction in check!

      1. Merrymagenta,

        TY! 🙂

        What I meant to say: HG is my go-to narc for info (And yeah, maybe sometimes thinking…)

        However! ….
        Ehm
        I have stayed bio contact with MY nex, and never plan to return.

        (I checked “golden period with my narc is difficult to forget”, this is my ONLY contact. I hope it ends soon)

        Sorry for any confusion!

  12. I am happy to say I don’t engage with him anymore, but I also realize it’s a daily choice not to and that being a Codepebdent I could relapse at any time. I call it sobriety.

    You can become addicted to a narc just like any other substance

  13. The narc becomes very unbalanced when there is no contact. I am scared of what he starts deploying and planning. I feel keeping contact can help to make them feel that it is all well. I just want to be kept on the shelf, painted white. That is why I keep contact sometimes. I wish that option existed. Anyone else?

    1. Hi Amanda SNapchat

      I feel that way.

      I was just informed that my daughter punched her boyfriend, slammed her car door into his car door and threatened suicide. Then her friend called the mental hospital and had her admitted.

      I think she is having a fuel crisis.

      I wonder if I was the one that triggered her behavior.

      I would like her to know that I still care and love her. I feel if I went no contact that she will believe that I gave up on her. Although she already believes that.

      I am sure the right thing to do is Get out stay out but we’re not there yet.

      1. Fury. It can be caused by anything, Serene. Anything. My ex narc would rage over anything, with reason, without obvious reason.

        I know she is your daughter and I understand the emotional entanglement.
        But to say that you caused it… no. It could be anything and with contact or not contact, her reaction to the injury would be the same…..

        I ALWAYS blamed myself for my ex narc ‘s furies. Always.
        I did not call soon enough. That was it.
        I did not text quick enough. That was it. it
        I made him mad and now he blew up and I contributed to it.
        Until I saw him blowing up after I had topped him off with his fav fuel: sex

        So, take it easy…. They will get her under control in the mental hospital.

      2. Kathy Mor
        I have never experienced this side of her (Fury).

        Thank you for encouraging words.

      3. thanks for sharing your story. it must be so hard when they are your own kids.i think i would alwyas have hope they could get better. but we know they can’t . I will pray for you.
        things will work out <3 a big hug

    1. Couldn’t reply above..

      Kathymor, re : “I ALWAYS blamed myself for my ex narc ‘s furies.”

      I swear we had the same narc! I made constant excuses, and I blamed myself for everything. It wasnt until i saw the exact same behavior towards my children. My eyes FINALLY opened. I saw his facade for what it really was .. and the smear campaign after..eieie. I didn’t even recognize him. The lies he told, ugh. Makes me sick

  14. Stil healing and fascinated. I only engage with one Narc and that would be HG. No matter how much it pisses me off to read it’s a continuing education not only on my personal involvement but reading about everyone else. Besides, where else would I read the phrase “wheelie bins” or learn I’ve been pronouncing aluminum incorrectly?

      1. What you’re thinking is a narc is really a magnet super empath. Next time someone ostentatiously parades themselves about I’ll say, ‘This is just a magnet super empath emoting high octane fuel.’

  15. This poll has been like observing an OKAY CUPID site! Humorous to watch the bait casted and HG curious for the lure. Fascinating, so invigorating, so validating. A front row seat folks, to how it all unfolds. That is what my answer to the poll must be. Fascinating!! Figuring out the mind of the perpetrator and how he was able to break me down was kept me engaged with the narcissist. The truth seeker.
    Psychology was my minor and really my passion. (Did my internship at MIT, DR Q. Not quite Harvard, but I did frequent the campus often, just to fuck with the want to be’s)
    Thank you H.G. for pointing out that thinking or talking about what you experienced is still engaging.
    I was never afforded the hoover or a chance to go no contact. The fuel job he had created filled with vulnerable women who could never tell (he was very careful to gather the retalitive arrows before one could suspect what was going on) was ended with me, his last victim, at least in that setting. Another poll question. What is he doing now? Did he find another position to work his lies and charm and take his incredible brilliance about how the mind works to lure in more fuel?
    I have no opportunity to go back and ask for an explanation. I would, as I said in another poll, want just one hour of truth about all the untruths I uncovered.
    The unveiling of the panther that lurks beyond the surface, a Pandora’s box left sealed up for 25 years is a animal hard to tame back into it’s cage.
    I long for the spark, I trigger at the ringtone, I miss the excitement of an email to break the intermittent attention. I long to feel the pleasures I knew nothing about.
    I want that aliveness back. But it wasn’t real alive…..was it?
    I want to believe that the hurt child I heard one of your many voices was really trusting me to mother you whole. I want to believe that I was the one who made a difference.
    I so want to believe that all the synchronicities were a sign from the universe that I was just where I was meant to be. To heal you, to give lessons I needed.
    It all ended so abruptly and I am sure his council advised no contact.
    I now know though, through all the awareness that H.G. has enlightened me with, that there is no magical hope. Pollyanna theories don’t exhist.
    Wendy and her lost boys are just that…..LOST.
    Watched Eat, Pray, Love movie today. Loved he quote.
    ” When your mind wanders back to them, just send peace and light and DROP IT”
    A goal I have been working on for a year. Getting closer but it is two steps forward, three back.

    1. Newby1111

      The way you started your comment, reminded me of the Eurovision song contest!

      I think it was the “so this poll has been …… And here is my answer to the poll……”

      Do I hope the narc will change? Nil pois….

  16. I left; saved myself, or so I thought. Now I have to share my child (7 year old very impressionable son) with him, finally filed petitions for full custody in court and the “punishments” being handed down are unbearable. I just want to keep my child safe and sheltered from it. Please, help…. I’m evolved enough to heal but the impacts on my child are causing extreme emotional distress for him. Does anyone have any experience with this, please share.. thank you in advance –
    Kathryn

    1. Kathryn,

      If you haven’t already done so, I would recommend that you read ‘save the children’ and arrange a consult with HG as a matter of urgency.

      I have extensive experience of your situation. My daughter is now 19 and absolutely thriving and I so wish that HG had been around when we were going through it.

      I’m not great at articulating my thoughts, so if you’ll bear with me a little longer, I’ll get back to you as soon as I have put something coherent together. I just didn’t want to leave you hanging because I know what you’re going through.

    2. Hello Kathryn,

      I’m sorry you find yourself and your son having to go through this but you’re in a good place for support – you may want to start (if you haven’t already) by reading HG’s articles on ‘Saving the Children’ and ‘Fighting Back – How to Handle the Narcissist in Court’. You can search for them in the menu bar. You may also want to consult with HG – his advice on these matters is invaluable.

    3. Hi Kathryn,

      I have experienced this situation. When I left my ex, my daughter was around 7 years old and I fought for full custody, but he still had visitation. It was a battle until she turned 18. I didn’t have a lawyer. Maybe that would have made a difference. I had her enrolled in counseling. Unfortunately my daughter grew up to be a narcissist. You are doing the right thing.

    4. Kathryn,
      I’m so sorry you are going through this! As I don’t know the details of your situation, I don’t know the best advice to give. In my situation, I am coparenting with a, my assumption, cerebral Greater. I didn’t discover HG until long after the divorce and all was settled. For me, my lawyer was amazing! He didn’t approve of all, or most, of my decisions but supported me and listened to me. If I had discovered HG beforehand, I would have highlighted the HG articles and parts of the books that apply to my situation, for the lawyer, and would have probably sought consultation from HG.
      I was advised early on in the divorce process that I cannot protect my child from everything. This has been the foundation of what I do do: be a role model on what to accept and what not to accept; protect where I need and legally can; and show my child all the love and respect I can for him as his own person. I do not say anything negative about my ex to my child to not have him feel that he is anything like those specific qualities of my ex; and for him to not feel torn in his feelings for either parent. My ex has said a lot about me that my child believes; however, I try to address certain aspects directly with my child when that happens. My ex is smart and convincing. I knew, and unfortunately still know, that well. I fail at never providing negative fuel to my ex, but I try hard to minimize those times.
      My child is in therapy.
      The fact that I have allowed two relationships to go the way they did means I have a lot of work on me to do to ensure I raise my child in the best possible way. My faith, my support system, therapy, HG and this blog, and my love for him all help in my steps to improve me to be the best mom for him I can. I recognize that I fail, but am trying hard. I don’t know who he will be when he grows up; I hold on to faith and hope that he is nothing like either of us (i.e. narcissistic or codependent).
      Stay strong, which you have shown to be, and hold tight; as you well know, coparenting itself is not easy. Doing it with a narcissist just makes it that much harder. You are not alone!

      1. Wow, thank you everyone for sharing and being so supportive; I’d say the most difficult challenge to date is trying to explain what it is I have been dealing with (for 14 years) and now what my child is going through and actually have people understand .. of course, those closest to me know, they’ve seen/heard/witnessed a lot, but in a legal setting there just isn’t enough education or emphasis on mental well being in custody cases – I find that tragic.. but I appreciate being able to come here and find peers who not only understand and get it, but also have similar situations that I can learn from.. mine is/was/will always be a horror, so if I can ever help, please reach out.

        Yes, I’ve read “Save the children” and all of the passages pertaining to co-parenting and divorce; as well as financial manipulation and just the complete
        Devastation of finances and assets… I can get through all of that without complaining (and some good lawsuits) if I could only save my child – and he (narc) knows that is my only weakness; therefore it’s his only weapon.. war is waged, these little eyes look at me for help and strength as he, too, is frightened and confused and feeling alone. I cannot lose

        Thanks everyone

    5. Kathryn,
      Protect your child as much as you possibly can. With my first, I *thought* I was doing the right thing by granting all access to our child. . I found out years later I was wrong wrong wrong!
      Good luck to you! Xx Your daughter is blessed to have you.

  17. I chose I want him to recognize what he’s done to me. Obviously I know he won’t. In truth I want his other fuel sources to recognize what he’s done to me. He has them believing I’m evil and im the reason that he treats them bad.

    At what point can I clear my name with his other victims? I’d like to reach out to two of them but I’m not sure they are ready. One has been devalued and half buried the other is being devalued and providing very strong negative fuel. I’d just like to tell them that Im sorry for what they are going through and that I know how they feel. I’m the enemy to at least one of them though (even though we’ve never met).

    These are intelligent women. I wish they could see what’s in front of them but I know what it feels like living in the chaos.

    1. Reach out to them- I can recommend that as I did just that. I talked to a few of Cockwaffle’s. Was illuminating for everyone involved. You aren’t responsible for their reactions or choices- just present the info….and don’t get hoovered in on their emotions.

      Your Narc will probably erupt– but as HG has said in his Revenge piece— it’s a trait that a Narc often keeps his targets apart- and should they cross the options for triangulation often offer up victims time to compare notes. If the victims are intelligent, they may listen and learn together.

      Once I talk to HG about my situation perhaps he can weigh in on how I handled my end of things.

      1. Thank you Harvard, I am not ready to talk to them yet and I don’t think they are ready yet either. I am newly GOSO and don’t trust myself. 1. I’m doing fine right now keeping my emotions in check but I don’t want to rock that boat. 2. If they confide in me and he pulls me back in, it’ll be a betrayal to them. 3. They are not aware of who they are dealing with. Anything I say could be used against me to gain favor with him. I won’t give him that fuel.

        My day will come though.

        I understand why readers were offended by your comments. I also saw your apology. Your apology impressed me more than your IQ. Classy move, I hope you don’t leave.

  18. Many things.

    My mom is my mom and is a victim narc. I avoid her as much as I can because any potshot gets on my last nerve and I go for her jugular. It gets barbaric. My rage gives in and gives her fuel and pisses me off further, then I escalate the attacks to crush her. But you can’t kill them, they squish away between cracks like freaking cockroaches. So, it is a waste of time. They need to stay and live in an empty world.

    “Suicide by the ungrateful daughter” as my narcissistic father did? Nope. My father took me by surprise playing the victim, by trying to fake suicide to call attention and then it backfired on him and he accidentally died. I guess no contact really hurts them. Ouch!
    I won’t give my mom that easy way out, so very short, cold, and grey rock interactions because I have to.

    My grandmother is dead. I don’t think about her often, only when I smell gardenias in the air. I know it is her around.

    My ex husband is in jail. My son is the only connection so I am ok for now.

    Now, my ex… oh the “love of my life”, my “Master”. To say that I am furious at him is a gross understatement. I want to crush him like a little worm. I think since I learned he is just a blind stupid fuck, I incorporated the fury of the lessers in me.

    At the same time, destroying his life would be too easy and too fast, but it is not out of the options… yet. It takes one little phone call and his little world crumbles. But I am waiting for the right moment, when he can’t hurt me back. I am not that stupid.

    I need to see him suffering to satisfy my sadistic strike. Every single millisecond of pain I felt accounted for. So, I am cooling off to serve him a cold plate at a later time, IF I even come to care about him because honestly, if he were a greater, I could give him the honor of being hated and perhaps to fight me back on similar level but honestly, I would not have reached this level of anger.
    It is his passive aggressive crap that got me.
    The useless somatic whore is JUST a mid range, and the more I learn about this mid range coward, the less and less I think about him, like he is so beneath me.
    How I even fell for such a weak bitch? Maybe that is my fury right there. I feel like I have to beat him up to a greater level so i can justify my own stupidity. I hate myself right now and HE is going to pay because he cause me to hate myself (see, I learned from them!) . It is all his damn fault. He has to pay, there is no other option (LOLOL!)

    He is JUST a mid range, struggling to look bigger and better but he can’t because he is a hysterical bitch who has no self-control, the incredible sulk pouting like a big fat baby, the passive aggressive whore who goes screwing anything that has a vagina because he needs damn fuel. I hope he gets a HUGE fuel from a RANGING STD.

    I have always despised passive aggressive people because it is cowardice and I despise weakness of that caliber, so yes, I despise him.

    Maybe that is all it takes. Call him a bitch and a whore and watch him implode or maybe I just take a good shower and move on and act like he never existed.

    ARGH. Passive aggressive whore. That is freaking insulting, if you ask me. But that is the truth. That is why I think i am still stuck in anger. Pass me that whip and I teach him what a “Master” is. Hypocrite Bitch. Done before and do it again.

    It is a process…………………………………………………………………………………………………… as you can tell.

    1. Better punishment would be to ignore. Calling him a bitch and whore sounds like some primo fuel he’ll be grateful for.

      1. Good for you, Kathy! Let it all out here, it’s a safe space and you’re among like minded people.

    2. Kathy Mor – this is my non empathic side talking…. No you dont have to have grey rock interactions with Matrinarc. Put her vile old ass in a nursing home and walk away. I did. It wasn’t easy but she can do no more damage to me now. It she commits suicide, then that was her choice. You are not responsible for her. That’s a game/trick. I can’t remember the name of the article, but HG did one where that was first on the list. Hoping someone can pipe up with the name of it for you. Please stay safe. Oh and boy o boy do I understand your anger. Ex husband victim midranger- If the Purge ever becomes a real thing – he and I are going spend a very long grueling night together, one last time! Because I’ve fantasized about the things I’d like to do to him.

      1. Thank you, IdaNoe.
        My mom is in another country. I moved away from her and that helped because I was on the verge of losing it with her. It is just so strange how I operate sometimes because until I got here, I had no clue she was a narcissist. She was/is an alcoholic but I didn’t think narcissism, even though alcoholics can have narcissistic traits. But my mom went beyond that and she tried to hurt me emotionally by giving me silent treatments, always making me go after her when I was young. At some point, I got tired of the emotional blackmail and the “yoyo effect” and pulled away definitely.
        My reactions were more by instinct than by reaction. I barely talk to her these days. Maybe once every 6 months. I did not call her on her birthday either.
        I am fed up and there is not turning around. I know some people may think I am bad. I don’t care. I am bad. I know what I went through with her growing up and what caused me to be addicted to narcissists…..

        I know how you feel… the anger. It is not really anger. It worse than that, and that is dangerous. I always say…. today you are a predator…. tomorrow…. you may be the prey….. it is just a matter of time, as always.

      2. K, thank you. That’s not the article I was referring Kathy Mor to, but it dors hit the point of fact that she is not responsible for her parents suicide attempts by not living up to their desire for a slave or doormat. Thank you again!

  19. I answered “keep hoping for change” because that is what I “used” to do.” I believed in the fairy tale “happy ever after and all” and still do. It is amazing how the happy level shoots up after you systematically hunt the narcissists in your friend/family/relationship network down and eject them from your life. In the beginning, people think you have went off your rocker because you are “mean” for the first time in your life. Example: I non-emotionally told a family member I had no interest in their life and requested we not talk or text unless warranted by family business. Followed by sweet sweet silent treatment/discard! (I don’t mind their rumor mills in the least. 🤣) I continue to engage many of them now to continue learning the varied dynamics between the different kinds, help other people escape and one reason hard to admit. Curiosity. Like a moth to a flame, I find the higher functioning of their kind, peculiarly fascinating. General intelligence was not enough to avoid them, it took “specialized” intelligence to see and defeat them in my life. They have been amongst us, relatively hidden from our perception, for so very long. Why? They excel in everything, not because of skill but from ruthless determination. Why? The highest functioning of them know what they are but the highest functioning “normal” or “empath” is clueless until being told. Why? Instinct, before being told, seems to have been the only defense, often overridden by our emotional thinking. I have no doubt, others before us knew of this behavior (whoever really wrote Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, regardless of historical accuracy, was obviously attempting to warn us of their behavior and how to handle it) yet it has never become common knowledge. Why? Nowadays, I continue to engage narcissists because of curiosity and an overwhelming need to satisfactorily answer to myself, the bigger questions of “why.”

    1. I’m fascinated with the narcissist/empath dynamic too, It Depends. The fact that we crave one another, yet are ultimately doomed to never find happiness together is a cruel joke. My name is merry magenta and I’m a Greater narcissist addict haha. Seriously, being here and devouring everything that HG writes helps me to understand my addiction, come to terms with it and to be honest with myself about the role I played in previous romantic relationships with narcissists. Knowing about narcissism and understanding it from HG’s perspective is a huge help. From what I’ve read so far, HG and I share a similar upbringing, yet I became an empath (as did HG’s sister) and he a narcissist and I find that incredibly intriguing and thought provoking. It’s funny, I’ve never been attracted to a particular physical type and I used to think that it was because I’m not shallow and I value what is inside more (vomit inducing, I know lol), but since I’ve been here I’ve come to realise that it’s really because I’m attracted to Greater narcissists and it doesn’t matter what they look like provided they possess all the relevant attributes. Having said that, I haven’t met one yet who wasn’t absolutely gorgeous!

      1. Merrymagenta,

        It’s good that you are aware of your weaknesses! 🤪😜🤪. I have to agree, the Greaters tend to be more handsome, their charm makes them seem even more appealing. Unfortunately…LOL

      2. Charismatic buggers haha.

        If I were queen of the world I’d round up all the Greaters and lock them up Hannibal Lecter style. I’d remove HG’s leather mask occasionally so that he could speak though, but I’d be super careful not to look into his eyes… oh, and definitely no paper clips haha

      3. Merrymagenta

        and they are (in my experience) high achievers and successful. They seem to be the hot alpha male Director-types of our Negotiator-type dreams. The highly masculine to our feminine.
        Well groomed and articulate… My favourite flavour. My mouth is watering.
        Wanna lick it.

        Oh, reality check Caroline!
        They always end up tasting like a**hole.

  20. Hey all, none of the choices fit my situation really. As I stated before my Narc has returned to me with nowhere else to go. After putting me through 9 mos. of hell over his bagwhore skagg, with ridiculous fights, twisted lies, moving back to his mom’s with the skagg (mom and stepdad not thrilled) ditching out of paying me his rent and leaving me strapped past catching up. Well I allowed it to happen cause he was my friend for 7 yrs before I knew what narcissistic meant. The new love, was sent to the house to retrieve some things needed (in which I was told to be nice to her, and I never had a reason to be not nice to her it was never about her). She walked in and not quite sure what was going to happen she ask me some questions which I didn’t really just answer I didn’t want to be like that I told her trust your instincts if you think he’s cheating he probably is but she already busted him and she saw text messages is that was a joke that was a hilarious joke they fight constantly telling me he’s with no we don’t but yes you do cuz I can tell I know him very well. She and I began texting and emailing and talking and calling became friends and the only thing keeping us from being friends with him. She took his truck 1 afternoon to run Aaron’s taking her dog back to Old roommates from her aunt’s which right there already told me somethings up. basically premeditated a whole bunch of stuff to do but was gone for 6 hours and upset him badly cuz he needed his truck to get to work and to come here again to grab something that he needed from my house before he got to work. He had been being real nice to me the last few days before this now she’s been gone all afternoon no phone call, text, telegram, anything LOL he was upset and they got into an argument which she set right in the living room and waited for this argument which is right in front of his parents bedroom on purpose I know she did they came out to the living room and proceeded to take her side totally crushed my narc to death he’s a mama’s boy and that just killed him so he took what you needed out of the bedroom and took off and while he was at work I believe they packed her up and helped her move out of their house which they were dying for it to begin with so he left work and came back to my house to drop off what he would didn’t need anymore from work and wanted to keep it in the truck, headed to the house to find out that she was gone and all of her stuff was gone and he text me back very upset I’m on my way back unlock the door. He arrived at my house tears very upset he’s very sensitive but I don’t believe he was crying over her I believe he was crying cuz his mom pulled that on him and broke his heart told me I don’t have anybody left in this world I know what it’s like to be alone in my mind I’m laughing because I’m left alone my family is all passed on my sisters my mom and dad good luck with that Jr. as I’m listening to all that has happened to him dying inside cuz I want to rip into his ass to no end cuz it’s exactly what he had been doing to me for the last time months that’s just wanted to say how ya like it? It’s ugly hun especially with the way you conjure up the ugliest names that you can possibly think of that make people stop and go wow that hurt it’s not even lie he’s got a vocabulary that make a sailor crawl up in the fetal position and rock back and forth crying for days. Now because his stuff is still here some stuff and he’s actually retrieving some as we speak I really couldn’t just tell him know you can’t stay here because that starts a whole nother drama of going to court in the whole nine yards to tell saying that he can stay here but he couldn’t I already made sure of that so I told him if you pull this shit on me again with the nastiness and everything I said you’re out of here I’m not going to put up with it already have your paperwork ready to go. he was not very nice to me at first right off the bat I told him I’m not putting up with this crap you’re going to have to go I’m not doing it so I think he now has got the picture that I’m not taking the bulshit this time around you going to live in this house you’re going to be cool if you can’t be cool you’re gone. so I guess I miss the way we were as great friends for the last 7 years before he decided to pull me into the love triangle which made no sense cuz I’m not in love with him I only love him as my friend so I guess I’m looking for the golden period sort of, and maybe force him to take me out for the birthday dinner he promised me on my 50th birthday this year on my 51st I could fly I can handle that & I don’t want to have sex with him or ruin his life I already made sure his mom got a good ear full before she stopped talking to me because of him so I already kind of ruined his life that’s what you get for messing with me now that I’ve found Mr. Tudors beautiful blogs that help me figure out how to play the game a little better and beat him at it. Please pardon my very long story but that is the only reason why I let him back into my world, cuz my sensitive narc couldn’t take his mom dropping everything on him and taking her side and protecting her like he would ever hit her one thing that he will not ever do is at hit a girl his mother raised him very properly that way she could kick his ass, but to keep the peace because his stuff is still here and I know how he is it was easier than panicking over having to go back to his mom’s who doesn’t want him there to begin with and now that he knows that is crushed but we were great friends before he brought this girl into our world and it was never about her ever it was the way he was being to me and then I guess how he was being to her on the other side cuz I know they like he can’t deny it he will try but he can’t deny it. So I guess I was wishing for the Golden Era so to speak I don’t mind that we were great friends very good friends I didn’t even know what a narc was not really I do now and I thank you all for that fact. Everybody have a great day. I’m going to kill this very long story and let y’all get back to the real world goodbye everybody thanks.

    1. I enjoy your posts Nikki although they do make me tired. Do people still send telegrams? I love how you said his vocabulary would “make a sailor crawl up in the fetal position and rock back and forth crying for days.” That made me laugh! Thank you. Have you ever considered doing an audio consult?

  21. None of the choices were relevant to me.

    Once narcissists are identified, I immediately cut them out of my life, including parents and there’s no going back for me. I had no qualms about telling my MatriNarc to her face that she is dead to me and I meant it. As far as exes in general, they’re obviously ex for a reason, so I have no inclination to engage with them again. You are the only narcissist I choose to engage with, HG., for the same reasons as NarcAngel very succinctly stated in her previous post.

    It’s the future narcissists that I have to worry about, not the past. The past narcissists are mere shadows, they have no power over me any more, they can’t hurt me again. It’s true what they say, the first cut is the deepest.

  22. I chose the options most relevant to me, but there are a couple that aren’t mentioned in the poll.

    1.) Morbid fascination. I want to see what he does next, the same way I might want to see the next episode of Breaking Bad or watch a contortionist at the circus. I could block him, but then I wouldn’t be able to be shocked by the sheer audacity of his hoover and whatever lie he comes up with to try to seduce me again. I like the intellectual challenge of trying to understand a worldview so different from mine and trying to resolve my cognitive dissonance. In short, it’s interesting.

    2.) I like him professionally. I met him through his job and he is certainly good at it. I plan to continue to be a customer of the company he works for because of various advantages that offers me. Unfortunately I am painted black and he is not speaking to me, which might leave me no choice but to contact his management about the situation and ask not to deal with him again. His manager will want to know why, and I’d be left ripping the lid off his sordid personal life and how that intertwines with his job. He would read this as malice and revenge, for sure, and I’d rather not deal with the drama that ensues. His job is a major source of supply/fuel for him and he would not take well to losing it. For this reason, I hope he has the good sense to hoover me before my next dealings with that company. If he painted me white I’d be willing to play nice and avoid narcissistic injury for our mutual benefit.

    Interestingly, though, once I requested something of him as a customer and he initially responded to me rudely, being very tired that day. The next time I saw him, he retold the story to another customer in front of me and completely rewrote history before my eyes. First red flag.

    1. 1) Absolutely. It really is fascinating. I keep reading about women who’ve encountered multiple narcs. Somehow I got to be this age and this is the first one, aside from my parents, that I’ve knowingly come across.

      1. I was thinking that having narcissist parents predisposed me to being ensnared into multiple romantic relationships with narcissists… hmm perhaps not then.

      2. I seem to have attracted #7 at this point, not counting my family. I am trying to shake this one off because I can see what he is a mile away. I am magnet for this PD, probably because the requisite software was installed in me at a young age.

        I am on a friendly basis with a few narcissists I’ve known but would never desire to be a primary source. That is sheer hell. I did that once and it almost broke me — the relationship itself and the 2-year smear campaign and malignant hoovers that followed.

        This 6th one I met — we’ll call him the Woman Collector — is a force to be reckoned with. He’s remarkably handsome and fit. He has his fuel sources all carefully organized so that they never meet or know about one another. I could expose him, but to whom? He refuses to use social media and can only be contacted directly. And he follows a strict set of rules to keep his fuel supply on various tiers, never documenting any intentions in writing until he can follow through. He operates purely on imagination and suggestion. His golden period is tasteful and restrained — just enough appreciation, nothing that would cause alarm. He fooled me for many months, which is saying a lot after what I’ve been through. I know what he did to me but have almost nothing to prove it, and he’d rewrite it all in a second, my word against his. This man is a sort of twisted masterpiece, if you can step back and appreciate him objectively. One could argue that he has really maximized his potential as a narcissist. It blows my mind, amoral though it is.

      3. Wissh
        Haha. Thats probably because formerly they were simply known as Assholes, Players, and guys who were “just not that into you”.

    2. Morbid fascination! That’s a good one to add. I constantly check the obits to see if he has keeled over.

    3. Michelle,

      Yesss 1.)

      I couldn’t describe it any better than you did! Morbid fascination.

      But right now I consider to let go, because I know what is coming:

      -he hoovers with something that is very provocative
      -I just NEED to respond
      -he shows his anger by immediately adding a new, very pretty woman, that he doesn’t even know, to his friend’s list, just to make me jealous
      -he stays quiet
      -when I do not react further, he sends me a song with lyrics that make me feel guilty for abandoning him while I promised to never leave him… or such.
      -I would respond why I left him; I do love you, but you hurt me..
      -he’ll let me know how he missed me, can’t live without me, blabla

      and all this times 5 or 7 or 20, it’s the same thing over and over, with only small variations

      It’s not even exciting anymore..

      Untill it happens again… 🙁

      It’s boredom, I’m so bored I need FUEL.
      Lots and lots of delicious, delightful, mouthwatering, scrumptious, exquisite, heavenly FUEL!

      I am a narc.

      There! I said it!

      (or perhaps I just need someone to grant me a job..)

      Michelle.. I could care less about the ‘various advantages’.., he’s a narc, the advantages are most likely fake anyway. I’d rather deal with honest business people (if they exist at all).

      Signing off now for a while.
      I’ve got to give attention elsewhere.

      Stay cool!
      Love you all xx

      1. I think I am a narc too as I am getting a kick talking to this narc online and asking him to send me all kinds of weird naked pictures, then going to some shady web sites and send some pics of some naked woman and watch him trying to video himself masturbating so I know what will come. I laugh so hard that I cannot even type. Fuel. I am getting fuel back. I am just bored out of my mind these days…….

      2. Blank:
        ‘I am a narc.

        There! I said it!’

        Then so am I!
        Nice try!

        I do think the culture you were raised in makes you seem more “tough” than empathic, but I still believe you’re an empath.
        And life would seem dull after dealing with a Narcissist. You can make your own excitement, if you really want excitement.

        I’m Enjoying The Silence, myself…..
        Perse

        (OhMyDog!!! A DP reference!!! HG’s taste in music keeps getting songs stuck in my head………….must go listen to something classical now……..some Rossini………..yessss)

      3. Michelle, mine I’m sure is also a woman collector, and like yours, he keeps EVERYONE in his life separate. No one will ever meet. While he does have a Facebook, he doesn’t post on it, nor can anyone else write on it. Throughout our relationship he has continued to use at least two dating apps, and he had lots of time unaccounted for. We were long distance so it took me awhile to catch on because no one on Earth can be as proficient at lying as he. But there will be no smear from him, no revenge from me. I’m just done except for the part of getting him out of my head.
        I’ve read 5 of HG’s books now and will start the sixth today. Some things he writes about don’t fit my exnarc at all, like the money, image, status symbols he’s interested in. Mine never showed any interest in any of that for which I am extremely grateful because he could have devastated me financially. It does confuse me though because HG says that’s definitely part of their make up. Maybe I’ll find the answer in the next books.

  23. The narc that lead me to even discover what a true narcissist is, is my husband’s ex. Their child was just 4 when we met 11 years ago. And for years we have endured parental alienation, sabotage of access, smear campaigns, and internet stalking. She has stalked me on every single social media platform I’ve ever joined, finds me just days after I join something and will send me abusive messages. Even finding me online to tell me how much joy she took in finding out I’d had a miscarriage. I do believe I’ve dated people with narc traits (including a domestic violence relationship I was in when I was younger) but never met anyone like the husbands ex who so deliberately and consistently spends all her time provoking people to try hurt them. And never met anyone so capable of getting under peoples skin, especially mine. At first I thought it was just me being the Husbands new partner but over the years I’ve realised she does it to everyone. She is unable to keep her mask in place for long so eventually falls out with everyone. (My guess is a lesser narcissist with victim persona).
    It lead me to a lot of searching trying to understand. Then once I did, we went no contact as soon as their child was old enough to legally make all our plans/contact directly with my husbands child.
    Very occasionally we cant avoid her. But we have learned (and still learning) how not to show an emotional reaction or provide any fuel on those occasions. She still stalks me online though. But the saddest part is that their child (a teenager now) seems to have a lot of the mothers narc traits now. This is a very difficult one for me as I love the child as my own and have invested huge amounts if time, energy, love and money into them. We are just trying to work out if the child is just complying with the mothers wishes to try not create drama or rock the boat or if they really are cut from the same cloth.

    1. “…and have invested huge amounts if time, energy, love and money into them”

      THIS is a very odd thing to say.

      Very.

      1. Do you not invest these things into your children? I can see from reading HGs stuff that the word ‘invest’ may trigger alternative meanings.

        But I am meaning it simply from a parent perspective of consciously trying hard to be there for them.

        I have 4 children of my own and its often a juggling act to give each child the individual time and energy you want to. But I tried my hardest to be the best step parent I could and treat her as my own.

      2. I do not! Are far more worthwhile and productive use of my time is to send them up chimneys. I find their small, malnourished frames are ideal. Or rather, I did, until that swine Shaftsbury put a stop to it.

        Joking apart. As an professitonal educator, it is extremly hard to pin down a true N from the usual N characteristics Indeed, I have seen great acts of kindness in the classroom. Out of maybe a thousand children I have taught, I would only really be happy ‘labeling’ around 3 or 4 as true Ns in the making. So with respect to your step child, it’s too early to say.

  24. My narc is low to mid level and I think I was born a super empath and made codependent. We have an electric love/hate marriage. With all of this knowledge I’m learning to manipulate him and keep him in the love bombing and hoovering stages more often and longer. Bwahaha

  25. My Narc is one of my bosses (I have 2 jobs) and he knows I know what he is and we fuck with each other incessantly. He pays me to be a primary I guess. He likes me to curse him out, cry, compliment him. I’m an African/American Christian Super Empath in Super Nova mode..He is a Lebanese Shia Muslim Mid-range to Greater Narc. I have seen him hurt people, use fury but he never physically messes with me. Of course he knows I have several brothers and sons that ain’t having that shit however, he told me NO ONE talks to him like me and no be in danger but he gets a kick out of me. We have been friends for 5 years and we have never had sex. I’ve met his wife, dad, friends, family, side-chicks, you name it but we just keep it moving. I tell him all the time I know he’s going to reach into his devil’s toolkit and get me one day but I fux with him and his money just as bad. I will GOSO when I move in 2019 and he can’t find me. but I guess I like the real and fake him because we are not sexual lovers although that’s all we talk about. I work at his business as a spoiled secretary that he uses to triangulate everybody (including me because he knows I love/hate him…men and women but just once a week. I have a regular job and hobbies.

  26. TMM,

    “I’m ALLLL about the brainy ones. Blue eyes, over 6′ and brains and I’m very attentive.”

    I’ve got one to offer to you, he lives next door;
    Tall 6.5, blonde, blue eyes and he thinks no one can measure up to his intelligence, that’s why he has no real friends. He’s great as can be! You want his phone number TMM?

    If you bring alcohol and drugs on your first date and tell him he’s God, you’ve got him in your pocket!
    Forget about the sex though… when he’s in bed he will likely tell you all about the events that led to World War II, that George Washington posthumously was promoted General of the Armies in 1976, by an Act of Congress and you’re likely to have to listen to an oration about the origin and extinction of the red-spotted Chinese gay penguine.

    1. Blank,

      Hands down favourite post- thank you!
      I now really want to know about the red-spotted Chinese gay penguin.

      1. Quasi, I didn’t google it, but I’m sure if you do, something like it once probably existed ha ha 🙂

      2. I Was just jesting too blank- I really like you’re humour..
        I would like to believe that the poor little gay penguins are frolicking in the waves with the orphaned gay blind whales that HG spoke of ( in exposed 5 further ways to flush out the narcissist- excellent article)

        They can join forces with the penguins as a version of a seeing eye underwater dog, guiding a merry quest to find Peter Pan and the lost boys ! Could be a spin off.. I think I may need more sleep ..

    2. Wait a minute!! Do you live next door to me?? I think you have met my hubby! Don’t you know” He’s the smartest person he’s ever known. You got the physical description to a tee!! And get ready to snore! He will talk your ear off about all he knows about history!

      1. I knew a 6’5 narc. I refer to anyone over 6’2 as “stupid tall”. I told him its slang, like saying that something is “sick”. Yeah…it isnt. Climbed that just to confirm that no one was home. Stupid tall stands.

      2. Newby, we should hook up your hubby with my N-ex. They’d probably live happily ever after together… (or they’d kill each other for wanting to speak at the same time ;))

      1. That’s a shame 62757. But well, he didn’t do Harvard, just some ordinairy University, so he’d probably suffer from inferiority complex 🙂

    3. HAHA Blank. That was hilarious.

      “he thinks no one can measure up to his intelligence, that’s why he has no real friends.”

      He would probably annoy me. I don’t like when cerebrals try to ‘impress’ me by prattling off a list of facts and references.

      I like the creative, artistic ones with talent who appreciate good conversation. But narcs just want to blah blah blah till you’re asleep.

      1. You know Bibi, I don’t like braggers at all. The thing is, he looks rather shy-ish and relaxed. Usually he’ll be quiet untill someone starts talking and when the subject is not cars or sex, he’ll start spreading his knowledge. And it’s true.. he knows an awful lot. He reads and it’s in his brain for ever. I read and it’s gone the next day (menaning I can read my favourite Murakami’s books every year, cause I forgot what it was about ;))

        “I like the creative, artistic ones with talent who appreciate good conversation”

        Right, Bibi, that”s my kind of guy also! Hard to find though. Creatives, the ones that aren’t really well-known.. (well-knowns would be out of my league) are often weirdo’s or drug addicts.

      2. Blank:

        “(well-knowns would be out of my league)” –nonsense!

        I have read Murakami, I am very into Japanese lit. He is ok–I prefer the older classics. Kawabata, Tanizaki, Kobo Abe. You would enjoy ‘Woman in the Dunes’ if you enjoy Murakami. That book was also made into a great film.

        The thing with Murakami is that his prose is so flat and he’s so overwrought and filled with so much fucked up shit. After a time, how much odd shit can you take? I enjoyed a collection of his short stories, however–After the Quake they are called.

        But check out Kobo Abe.

        Yukio Mishima is an excellent wordsmith but his books are lacking in the level of depth as the others. But a quality writer. And he was an Elitist Narc. His staged death was ridiculous.

        I hope my saying all this doesn’t make me sound like a magnet super empath. 😛

        And you’re right about the weirdo/druggie part.

      3. That’s mine, completely cerebral, logical, math brain, literal, knows everything about everything, very little sense of humor, and certainly none about himself. Now that I’m describing him, WTF was wrong with me?! 🙄

      4. Was he a PhD? In my BDSM world, sapiosexual is your kinky. Just saying… I said it again. I may be horny and my hormones are clouding my thinking.
        But what is new, girls?
        Wine?
        Margaritas?
        Anyone?

    4. ….I could bed him just to find out about the Chinese gay penguin to add to the spice on this post…..

      1. You could fall in love with him TMM, since you are sapiosexual. You would definitely be his type of woman. His first ‘love’ (in University) was a kind of woman like you (I just get that from everything I read here), highly intelligent, a bit off-standard, with a narc father who was a minister. Of course she was not your age but younger, say 19/20.
        N-ex made her prostitute herself, so they could travel the world, forced her to 2 abortions, got her hooked on drugs, and after he finally discarded her she committed suicide. He told me it was the drugs. She was only in her mid or late twenties.

        Recently I have read letters from him to her (while he was still engaged with her but travelling with someone else – a guy- later) in one of which he said he slept with this guy’s girlfriend, blahblahblah and at the end of the letter he asked her to send drugs. Can you imagine?
        I sat down with this letter asking myself why he would write this? Why would he want her to know he cheated on her? It was to make her jealous and because she was so under his spell, she would send the drugs to please him.
        After realizing what a criminal he really is, I freezed.The man I married for 25 years, who in the beginning looked so gentle, acted so polite, who had such a good decent job… the man who fooled me all those years, manipulated and gaslighted me, denied me sex always, took away my self esteem, made me question myself, who caused my decade long depression, the man who almost made me commit suicide as well… this man is still the father of my children, he is my neighbour.

        Total lack of conscience, feelings of guilt and remorse, these narcs, they are evil personified.

        TMM, I read you are in a real f*cked up situation. I give you loads of credit for your comment “I said I was intelligent, not wise”. I hope we all will learn and know the difference and I hope you will be able to make wise decisions for your future TMM, I wish you all the best.xx

      1. So glad everything went well with your husband Quasi.

        Continued love and support xoxo Valk

      2. Thank you Valk ❤️. I appreciate your support and your kindness. You have such a beautiful heart, it radiates from all of your posts. I very much enjoy reading them.

        Thank you again, the support I have had from all the amazing people here on narcsite, helped me a great deal to think things through and you all bolstered my strength to do it. One thing I know for sure is narcsite has given me back – me.

        Qxx

    1. Exactly, me too. I kicked everyone else’s out, therapists, the female psychologist who kept talking bullshit in my ears… and got my money back.
      HG is my buffer against my narc. It is the only thing that ever stopped that visceral pain and I was feeling. It is what kept going when I did not have direction.
      I vent here and write things I would never, ever tell anyone because I am pretty introverted about my life.
      When I feel my emotions taking over, when I feel that I am missing my narc, I keep HG’s words in my mind: emotional thinking will get you trouble. Breaking the no contract will get you in trouble. You fell in love with an illusion. The guy does not exist. He will do it again. Don’t contact him, don’t talk to him….
      I read, listen, breathe HG day and night. I write his words. I read his books. This is what is keeping the shadows away from me. I don’t know if it is wrong to do this. I don’t know if we are transferring our addiction for our narc to HG. Possibly. But I can live my life, I am no anxious anymore. I am not worried that I am doing something wrong anymore. I am free again and I am understanding what happened to me my entire life.

      That is why when I read another narcs fake comments here, it gets on my last nerves. It is insulting. How do I know the person is a narc? Because it gets on my nerves, exactly. I can smell it. I can feel it. I heard that before a thousand times. I saw that same attitude before. It takes space, it is clutter and it is noise.

      1. Thank you, Quasi. I speak the truth. My ex narc owes HG the fact that I have not destroyed him. HG is a stronger dominant force than he will ever be and I am listening to what HG says as opposed to reacting to how he made me feel. Lucky him. The bastard has no idea how “lucky” his ass is…or maybe I owe HG the fact that I did not have to get my hands dirty because the ex will get what he deserves without my assistance…. anyways…. Before I found HG, I checked some of these self proclaimed narcissists but it was just fabricated, bragging, idiotic attitude. This here is a different ball game. Quality. I think I could simply sit quietly and stare at HG, hypnotized, all day long. Scary but the truth.

      2. Kathy, I agree with Quasi; I really enjoyed reading your post.

        Especially the last paragraph…and specifically this line:

        “It takes space, it is clutter and it is noise.”

        This not only applies to narc commentators here but to the narcs in our lives.

        At least that is how I view any interaction with my own narcs – it is clutter…it is noise…. and I’m so done with emotional clutter and noise.

      3. Yes, I second that. The only narc allowed here is HG. We slay the others. Said that, I have the impression that they are the same person, figuratively and literally speaking… the wavelength of energies are way too similar, way too in tune.
        I can create another account using a fake IP address, come here and praise my own postings so I can make myself look so amazing…. just saying…

      4. Do understand that I only ever comment under my own name – I neither have the time to do the alternative nor will I damage the credibility of what I have created by doing so.

      5. I didn’t think is you, HG.

        I think the Dr. “whatever her name is” and the other idiot, “TMM” or whatever…. are the same person. I may be mistaken but I can clearly feel the same wavelength merging as one in my mind. Even if both were to produce proof that they are not the same person, I would say: I don’t believe. I smell manipulation.

      6. Hi Kathy,

        Just to clarify, naturally, I agree that having narcs comment here tends to cause drama and can put some people on offense.

        But I could never agree with your second suggestion; that it would be HG posing as such an individual. He would have no need to do so…to make himself look better somehow? No.

        His work speaks for itself; especially when you can, literally, put what he advocates to use in real life, with your own narc, and watch the results play out right in front of you.

        His work attests to his accuracy and professionalism.

        Although…the tone and ‘wavelength of energies’ you refer to is quite similar to *another* recent commenter…

      7. I didn’t suggest that and I have clarified my answer. He REALLY doesn’t need that. I just had my first phone consult with him and to say that he it is amazing is gross understatement.
        Here and out of here, he is the only narc for me.

      8. WhoCares, I didn’t read Kathy Mor’s comment that way at all. It was not about HG. Also, having other narcs on here immediately puts me on the defense rather than the offense. I don’t want to engage with them at all. I cannot even read the posts without feeling repelled but I did not want to say anything directly because I don’t want to tangle with anyone. I was happy to see Kathy’s original post. I guess HG has done his job, at least with me!

      9. I meant: that Dr. whatever and this TMM or whatever her nick is.
        They are the same person.

        NOT HG. Just clarifying it.

        The feminine energy is exactly the same.

      10. I’m going to suck up here, but it is the truth. I dont believe anyone ever thought that. You are the one, the only, the stellar Hurt God. There are only 4 mens names I say with reverance, my husband, a veterinarian, Jonathan Davis (Korn) and HG Tudor. Thanks for being my teacher.

      11. Kathy Mor

        I made a comment to you energy never lies, with that said one that is Aware of this and not just sensing the darker energy can sense the differences between people.

      12. Yes. There is more that I see embedded but I won’t post it here. But yes, you got that right, Twilight.

      13. Yep…. HG will certainly moderate the answers and my clarification will be posted. It was to him that I was referring to……..

      14. Keep that in a file… there are no coincidences…. There will be more coming forward…

      15. Me too, Kathy, everything you wrote. I think I will leave for the day. But before I do, prior to reading all the comments, I laughed because I chose the “I don’t know” option without peeking. Was somewhat surprised to see it was the most popular response.

        I think our narcs connected us to each other and to HG – we are social creatures and they made this space possible. In some cultures, beggars are blessings – like narcs, they have nothing to give, but when you give to them, they bless you. MRN gave me this community and keeps me here with you all. That is what keeps me connected to him.

        Oh, I am a short order cook in a diner. I am stupid as all fuck and ugly as all fuck and I am always covered in grease. I stink. I might be an arrogant prick, as someone on here once told me (I prefer arrogant cunt myself), but my faults do not include being too smart or too beautiful.

      16. You made me smile 🙂 You would be surprised how special you are…..

        I must agree. If it were not for all that happened, specially in these last 3 months, I would not find this place in time and I would surely get into another relationship with another narc thinking that it would be better. ALL my relationships were with narcissists… But we are learning, aren’t we?

      17. Woah there SMH- back up….
        I like and agree with you re- narcissists experiences bringing us to this community and how amazing it is, but you’re last paragraph I have an opinion.

        It was funny but just to add to the idea of beauty!
        I’m sure you are actually beautiful, I know for sure you are smart!

        But beautiful represents more then external beauty.

        You can Be beautiful For the way you think, beautiful for the way your eyes sparkle whenever you talk about something you love. You can Be beautiful for you ability’s to make others smile, you can be beautiful for the way you care, you can be beautiful in your soul – it can shine from you.

        So based on that, from what I know of you here- you are beautiful SMH- just saying…

        Qx

      18. Aww, Quasi. Sweet of you to intervene. I was just being flippant and should have included an emoticon or two but as you know, it’s a struggle for me to do them on here! I really do not have any insecurities, which must be my narc side. How are you?? xx

      19. I know you were being humorous lovely, it did make me laugh too.. I was just adding to the scope of how people can see beauty. I also jumped in as I think you are awesome and wanted to say the above just in case some of what was said was felt also.
        Sometimes when we joke about things there is an underlying thought / truth.

        I am well thank you .. i hope you are also?
        SMH I did have the conversation with my husband on Saturday, my friend had the kids overnight and the next day. It was the right thing to do and all is well. The dragon is slain and the truth of my infidelity with A is known and clear from our lives.
        Thank you for all of you’re guidance and support, and the alien bean laughs ! It has meant a lot to me.
        Qx

      20. Oh Quasi, I am so, so happy for you! You must feel so much lighter! And it is confirmed that you have a great, great husband there. Really, best news I’ve heard all day! Fuck that alien bean.

        I stayed away from here yesterday because of those posts but all is well with me. I could have given it back but that’s not my style. As I said elsewhere here, narcs do not have emotional intelligence and so they are tone deaf. I am not. Super hugs!

      21. Thank you lovely, you are spot on there.
        I’m sorry SMH I don’t know what posts you mean hun? ( in hushed tones not to upset the boss- I don’t read all the article threads) so I may have missed something easily..
        whatever it was I’m sure your response in not responding and having time out was a good gut feeling to go with.

        I got ya back too, although I’m sure people will not be at all intimidated by me, all I got is gushy! Haha!

        Be you, be awesome, be true…
        Qx

      22. SMH,

        I have finally clicked to what you meant re- posts ! So no need to explain.
        This is a fine example of when my intellect fails me and I completly miss the link of suggestion! Sleep has not been a big feature for me the last few days, so I am happy to blame shift my inability to click on to what you meant on that.
        I can’t blame the gin this time! Damn it.

      23. Quasi!

        ” The dragon is slain and the truth of my infidelity with A is known and clear from our lives.”

        Wow, that must be a huge relief…and it went well? That is good to hear…I’d whoop’n’holler for you but I realize that it must have been an agonizing situation given what ‘truth’ means to you. Even just airing it must feel very freeing for you.

        Big admiration from afar,
        WC

      24. WhoCares thank you..

        Yes all went well in that we remain together and working on understanding and sharing what is known and felt.

        You are correct in knowing that the process of having the conversation was agonising, but is was real and has lifted the black mass that was developing between us.
        I have been reflecting this week about speaking truths and living them/ acting them out.
        Speaking a truth is one thing and a good start.. now I need to act out my truths and be the best person I can manage to be. As always I can only do my best in this.

        Thank you for your kindness and support.

        Qx

      25. Quasi – I just saw this now (I’m not getting all my notifications apparently – only some of them).

        ” You are correct in knowing that the process of having the conversation was agonising, but is was real and has lifted the black mass that was developing between us.”

        You give me courage to deal with my own growing ‘black mass’ within my current situation. You would think the natural follow through of airing such things would just *happen* or make the next time we have to confront things – specifically, our own truths – easier somehow? No.
        For me it is a constant struggle between giving legitimacy to my own needs and not hurting other people…as I have always been given the message that following through on my own truths, inevitably, hurts others. Narcissists will use this to bind you…others will, hopefully, recognize that you have to do what you have to do…

        Sorry Quasi, to take your words as a point of departure to engage in my own personal rant but you really are an inspiration to me…and a reminder that there are some things that I really need to take care of…

      26. WhoCares,

        You can use my words in any way you wish, if they are helpful and support reflection then all is well.

        I thank you for your kind words, I am just going to absorb them rather then self deprecate.

        The concept of Truths is an expansive topic!
        WhoCares if you have learnt that following your own truths inevitably hurts others, I imagine this was learnt from narcissists, as your truths would hurt them. Your truths would be based in gut feelings, emotional and rational mind, they would be rounded in multiple layers and perspectives. They would not be one dimensional with a view of the narcissist having the higher value. A truth that does not hold the narcissist in the higher value status will hurt them.

        The narcissist I knew was hurt by my truth that I could not be what he wanted me to be. He wanted me to be a friend with benefits, and to not have an opinion about this, and just come to him when summoned. When I informed him that we could not be alone together again and we could only be pub mates / acquaintances, this went against his wants – I was saying no to him.
        As always it will be the polar opposite perspective that corrodes any attempted relationship with a narcissist.

        It is not a simple concept at all, if it helps I would advise to spend a little time firstly establishing what are your truths? What is the black mass or dragon by your side ?
        Who does it involve? A narcissist? Another person of value to you?

        When you identify what this truth is and who you feel needs to hear it to clear the space around you and more importantly in your mind! Try a balance sheet – pros and cons – try to be as open and honest as possible in this.
        What are the benefits and what are the costs – to both you and the person who may hear this truth. Clearly this is all from your perspective but by drawing back and looking at different angles you will able to incorporate some potential perspectives of the other person if you know them and their core values quite well.

        When dealing with A ( the narcissist) The main point that helped me was consideration of a few things –

        Motivator- when he said something or did something where did it come from ? what was the motivator?

        Aim – when he said something or did something, what was his aim to achieve?

        Intent – based in my gut feelings and automatic emotional response – was this said / done with good or bad intent? this links to motivator and aim, but draws more on emotions then rationality.

        An example could be the following conversation. –

        Me – we can only ever hope to be friends that see each other at the pub from time to time, we can’t be alone together.

        A- right ok, well you do have more to loose then me.

        Objective / rational view – he is stating a fact, I do have more to loose then him, I had a family to loose.

        Motivator- why would he state this fact- it is stating the obvious. To threaten? To highlight risks? To highlight a power over me with this truth? To be kind ?(haha).

        Aim- what does he gain from stating this fact? A need to equal the balance again as i just delivered a blow by saying no? To hurt me? to get an emotional reaction of fear or intimidation? To support me? (Haha)

        Intent – Ok now this is based in my perception of his intentions- my emotional response and gut feelings.
        I read his intent as ill intent, I read his intent as being hurtful as I had been hurtful to him in my rejection of his wants.
        He did not say this to make me feel better or through care for me. He said it to make himself feel better, to raise himself up and out of where he felt himself to be. To lay responsibilities at my feet, to cover me in shame. To keep himself clean.

        This breakdown of information and perspectives helped me see a truth. An ultimate truth.
        No matter how much I wanted to delude myself that we could still Be friends, it could never be.

        His instinctive behaviours and what he said to me told me that no matter what my good intentions are, his would not be all good, His would be self serving, always self serving.

        If a person causes you to feel bad through words or actions, it is more likely that it is not for your benefit but for their benefit, and this relationship will not ever be what you need it to be as there is no care at the root of it.
        With A it was founded in his lack of empathy, if he had empathy I’m not sure he would state an obvious truth such as this, especially when there is then no follow up or constructive discussions about how to address this truth.

        There are many things to consider when you contemplate what you need to take care of WhoCares, take your time, consider and feel. Listen to your gut and emotional reactions as much as you listen to rationality.
        ( my personal opinion but ultimately just do what feels right to you).

        In my recent situation, the outcome correlated directly with the person that my husband is. For this I am very lucky. He would say that it is also down to who I am at the core, I’m still working on Hearing that one effectively.

        Your courage is within you WhoCares, you have evidenced your courage in many ways, it is there when you need it.

        Before I end this monologue I will just say one more thing-
        The legitimacy of your needs! WhoCares your needs are legitimate because you are IMPORTANT, you are SIGNIFICANT, you are AMAZING. You are EPIC!!!!!
        you are of a high value, your needs are of a high value. That is all you need to know – know you! And what you are worth!!

        Ok monologue at an end, it has been an honour and a privilege getting to know you WhoCares, I think you can Tell I hold you in high regard and respect and value all of our monologue dialogues ( haha).
        Watch out for the odd holler – I have no doubt as you move forward in what you need to do for YOU – I will feel the need to holler holler whoop whoop at ya !

        Take care lovely.
        Qx

      27. WhoCares ,

        Sorry I just had a moment of self doubt, and wanted to expand again on my first reply.
        I was trying to advise on two seperate things and I don’t think I articulated myself that well.
        The breakdown of identifying truths was one thing relating to situations with anyone.
        The monologue about A and that specific conversation was a description of how I broke down what he said and did, so I could wade through the bullshit, and understand truths underneath, and meaning!

        I gave this description as I recalled that you had advised of different entanglements with narcissists and I can only imagine how mind eroding this can be, so picking out truths and meaning I’m sure is harder when narcissists have been a repeated feature in interpersonal relationships. So I thought to talk about that method to see if it may help with anything.

        Apologies for another comment, I just re read mine and thought that it was not that great or clear..

        The last couple of paragraphs still stand – you are awesome and a person I hold in high regard.
        ❤️

        Thanks again lovely, your comments always make me feel incredibly supported.

        Qx

      28. As ever Quasi – your replies give me pause for thought…thank-you for taking the time to write as you do here…I’m am going to think on your words and get back to you.

      29. WhoCares

        This is the song that A reacted to, this is the song that I believe brought an ending. Like sunsets endings can be beautiful, I believe this song is beautiful and has great meaning to me, more so now then ever before. If I’m right in his reaction to it, this song gave me an end I needed.
        I wanted to share it with you.

        https://youtu.be/ez36ReiwUmI

        I think it’s time WhoCares.
        Thank you for everything! you may never truly see the value of your light.. but I hope you do.

        Qx

      30. Thank-you Quasi for sharing – I enjoyed listening to that and I like the lyrics…her voice is quite nice; I may seek out more of her music.

      31. Hey Quasi – I think I finally have a song for you (well, for a lot us post-entanglement)…you seem to have eclectic taste in music like me (and you like 80’s music) so here’s a cover of a well-known song but with a gypsy jazz twist:

        Here’s to a fun Friday night – or a happy start to the weekend :-)!

      32. Hahaha – well it certainly made me smile, and I do like a double bass ! I agree that the meaning of the song has a definite Stand out meaning for many.

        My last post was a me trying to be stealth in saying farewell lovely, by talking about endings and saying I think it is time now. However Im clearly crap at it, or too stealth! to the point where it is in no way apparent that this is what I meant 😆, I need to skill up on ninja stealth skills !

        I think I’m in that place, and I need to let go of what has been, to be open to what can become.
        “Don’t sacrifice who you can be, to be who you think you are” !
        I think you get my meaning.

        All the overly affectionate and gushy sign off’s to my recent comments to you, SMH, windstorm and MB, and valk, were me essentially saying how much you have all meant to me, and how thankful I am for getting to share with you all. It’s my stupid way of letting you guys know that you have made a significant difference to my life in accepting me for me, and being so kind and supportive to me in my time here, and simply that I will miss you all very much so.
        (but now I have just said it rather then being all cryptic! Clearly I am pants at cryptic! )

        I may as well do my final sign off with music again, music is a love of mine. The instrument I have been learning, that A started to teach me was the electric bass guitar. Now this song is from one of my all time favourite groups sly and the family stone, their bassist ( Larry Graham) was just amazing and pretty much invented slap bass! Ie – funk!

        So this is me saying thank you for letting me be myself, and express myself and for helping me so much on my journey.
        With monologues, foot notes, apologies, gushing appreciation, gushing praise, love bombs , random music, random quotes, random psychology. Random me. It is a rare thing to find, so many amazing people in one place, I’m so glad I did.

        ( WhoCares- each time you rock it and have each little triumph over the ex narcissist, however big or small, hear a holler whoop whoop ! In dulcet British tones – with an attempt at an American twang- From me.
        Because no matter how big or small the gain/ step in your path forward, it’s still movement and it is still worth acknowledging and affirming as such)

        Big love to all… ❤️

        Qx

        https://youtu.be/UyKLPEdgX2o

      33. That should have read “post *romantic* entanglement”…or at least post-golden period…

      34. Good for you Quasi. You are so brave. I hope things continue to go well. I know from experience of being in his position so I will give you some advice. Don’t hide anything from him and answer every question that he has. Believe me, I asked about EVERYTHING. The only way to make it right between you is for no secrets to remain between you and A. He must know everything that he wants to know. He may not want all the details. I did and he told me all of it. It was akin to HG giving us everything. No mystery can remain.

      35. Thank you MB,

        I answered any questions he had, although they were not many. If he has more I will of course answer them in truth.
        A was the narcissist.
        Thank you again MB, I value the advise you give me and know it is wise, and based in lived experience.
        Qx

      36. Thank you windstorm, it went better then I deserved. Thank you for all the support and kindness you have shown me, for my time on the blog. I have found it heartening and empowering. You are a rare gem, and I for one have the highest respect for you. Take Care and keep on being amazing!
        Qx

      37. SMH…. I feel out of my league here with all the intelligence and Harvard talk. I do enjoy intelligent conversation, but there are different types of intelligence.

        And ….I feel like I look like a potato with eyes, and that’s on a good day!

      38. LOL, Tigerchelle – I am sure your eyes are beautiful even if you are otherwise a potato!!! I am a couch potato myself.

        I could give it back in spades to them but I am not capable of it, which means I am not a narc. Good lesson. And yes, there absolutely are different kinds of intelligence. Narcs don’t have the emotional kind, which is why they are tone deaf.

        xx

      39. Kathy Mor, I agree and HG’s works have had that effect on me also. When I feel myself weakening I think of those things too, and after finishing last night’s book I’ve added another, “he does not miss you, he does not think of you, you were an appliance, you have already been replaced.”
        It’s so weird to think and accept that after the hours we spent on the phone everyday it’s so easy for them to move on, and so difficult for us to get them out of our heads.
        Like you, I’d rather have HG reside there and I’ve been learning through immersion. I’m retired so I have plenty of time to read book after book.

      40. I asked those questions many times. How can he risk losing me? Good, good question. He does not think he is losing me. I have been his steady supplier of fuel for 06 years. Rain or sun, I was there. I was available. This is not to say that he has done the cold treatment for this long before, because he has not. But I know he has someone new and she is in town, so he needs to keep me at a distance. Usually they were from out of town as I found out. But here is the thing. It will work wonderfully for sometime, but as soon as the relationship begins to evolve, as most relationships do, to where she will require more of him, more responsibility, commitment, that is when his smile will disappear and the silence will take place in her bed. When he gets tired of her not responding back with the same intensity, that is when the problems will begin to become visible. This is not to say that he has a narcissistic daughter holding his leash to make matters worse. So, not matter what it is a lose-lose situation.
        Today after I talked to HG on the phone, I felt this sensation of lightness.
        I could see clearly.
        They never move on. They just put you in a shelve as they go and play with their new toy. But he will want to come back…. when he needs that stable and unconditional fuel… because I was the “slave”. But then, I will be gone.
        If everything goes Ok, I may move away, not because of him specifically but because it is something I have been thinking of….

  27. None of the above. My father has manipulated my entire family (except my husband) into being lieutenants. I’m not ready to lose my whole family, particularly since I’ve figured out Grey Rock. I’ve also slowly been showing them what he is, through unemotional reporting of facts, and they’re starting to come to my side now. It’s a long process, but I need to remember what a skillful liar he used to be, and how they were used and abused by him too.

    As for the misty past in which I kept engaging with my ex, it’s not in the poll. He’d broken me and I had no idea who to be without him — until I did.

  28. I choose feeling guilty for cutting out a family member. Her birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks. And right now she is still not speaking to me. But I feel I should say happy birthday, so she knows I love her.

  29. He was witty, intelligent, confident and I loved the way he made me laugh ( I miss that) . He fulfilled my needs … at least at the beginning.
    Also , I think I might just be wired that way .

    1. Cockwaffle had a great ability to make me laugh- until he started his routine and adding flavors to something that didn’t need additional flavoring. He barely tasted something before he drowned it in condiments and redundancy…..just needed more FUEL than he realized he had….

      I’m wired that way too.

  30. Oooh! A new poll! Polls are always exciting and seems like they’re more frequent lately.

    I could only pick two of the ones you had listed -family members and work colleagues. Those don’t really fit with “choose” to interact with. They’re more like stuck with interacting with. lol!

    The narcs I actually go out of my way to choose to interact with are very intelligent and interesting people. They are fun and witty and I truly enjoy interacting with them (in limited doses!). They keep up with current events and have great senses of humor. Of course these are secondary friendships – not intimate partners. Although my Pretzel MnM (NarcAngel picked out a great name for my exhusband!) was a former intimate partner and probably still views me that way.

    1. I agree windstorm…. I like the polls too. They make me want to comment more I must say.
      I like to think that our answers are also helping HG to learn more too perhaps….

  31. [ ] can’t let go due to shameful and humbling realization of not being the exception to the rule (therefore obsessively pining and plotting revenge)

    Might be linked to “I don’t want the narcissist to be with someone else” or “I keep wanting the golden period back”

    1. I can relate to these very well, but as I’ve been inhaling all HG’s works since last weekend, I finally understand and it’s been very freeing.

  32. I answered “I don’t know I just can’t let go” which is true. I tell myself that I am conquering the fear, conquering the manipulation but as HG has pointed out I am really simply making excuses and allowing my emotional thinking to convince me it is a good idea to re-engage…again and again and again. Ugh. Someone slap me. 🙄

  33. I have to coparent and am just waiting for divorce things to be settled and child custody to be settled so I can drop the farce of coparenting. I KNOW he will never coparent.

    I also am stuck in the thinking that if he knew and understood what he has done to me he would stop. It’s not true. It isn’t going to stop!

    1. MB I think Tudor’s voice would be good to have on the Sat-Nav. Trouble is there would be all these women driving around in circles just to hear him say: “You have reached your destination!”

      1. Ha ha, that amused me. Naturally, I would be telling you to make a U-turn because we narcissists love those.

      2. HG, I was thinking the other day, you have done books, radio, YouTube, etc…..you need to get onto the big screen.
        That is the way forward I feel. Although t-shirts and whatknot would be fun. Your aim should be higher!
        I’m not sure how, or what, but I’m sure you’ll find a way. Maybe a series…. “The Tudor Chronicles” or something. That’s just off top of my head. And the series could be based on the information from your books. But for it to be good, you would have to direct it yourself…..because only you know how it should come across….I’m sure you’ve already thought of all this.
        I just think it is a matter of “who” you know and the right circles which I’m pretty sure you can get into being the person you are. It may start small, but it just needs the right people to take notice, and then you are off to Hollywood!

        There is no way you’ll have time for us then. But we will be glad to have had some interaction with you. But you will be onto bigger and better things.

        I’m not sure though if your personal life holds you back right now. I think you have to come “out” if you like, come out fully from your shell, and show the world your true colours!
        If you really want to leave a legacy, then stop trying to live two separate lives and just put all your effort into one!
        I really sound like I’m trying to tell you what to do lol! I’m not, its just thoughts I’ve had and no doubt you have also.
        Your personal life is something that needs to be cut loose. People will still be drawn to you and you’ll still have your sources of fuel even though people know who and what you are. Your success, status, and fortune, will attract enough willing sources to you. I hope I’ve not spoken wrongly.

      3. HG,

        I have Waze with Drew Lynch.
        I don’t think he is an N, but he sends me on a lot of U turns cause it takes him too long to speak. It makes everyone in the car laugh, (He was going for that.)

        If my GPS app had YOUR voice, I would probably feel as though I HAD to go directly to my destination; no stops, no side trips, no quibbling!

  34. None selected. Honestly, if this had been asked of me 18 months ago, I would have struggled to tick only 3, the emotional backlash was strong. I really think I am through the worst of it … and it was bad, very bad. I really feel for you that are still coming to terms with this whole f***fest. The last two hoovers were quite some years ago, and each time I wasn’t biting. I had learned not to trust him and be self protective .. the pain that followed each high was too much to bear. If n-ex were to get in touch, I hope and believe that I would resist. I now know and understand what I was dealing with plus my own shortcomings.

    You know what, I am just so bored by him … amazing given what I went through …. but yes… bored, bored, bored. I resent the wasted years, and wouldn’t give a nanosecond more for his benefit. I was a wreck, and if I can get through this then so can you. 💖

  35. The reasons used to be revenge, and then in time, fascination. I honestly viewed providing positive fuel (although I did not know it as that) as sharing my strength and good qualities (once earned) because I felt it was helpful to them and it did not deplete me in any way to do it (that speaks to my obvious and higher narc traits) until they got nasty-then I’m out (but not right away because how dare you abuse my gift and you will be wounded while I take it back now lol). Leaving them was not an issue because I was not “hooked” in a romantic or intimate way. Sex was only a tool and not needed as much as you’d think. I no longer seek revenge but they remain fascinating, although pretty much now they are limited to familial and those in my social circles (I mean come on-they can be a complete hoot), and not anything anyone would consider as romantic or intimate.

    But the more succinct answer HG is:
    Because you continue to write the most beautiful, provocative yet educational articles and books with intelligence and humour, and have introduced me to a world of wonderful, colorful, and interesting people here on your blog. I have changed by “knowing” both you and them.

    THAT to ME is your biggest hook, and also accomplishment.

    1. Can’t just like as I can’t seem to log in, but I can reply. Your answer was so totally awesome that I stood up and gave you a yahoo and a round of applause. Kudos

  36. The others are simply reference points, but with my mother its different. The logical part of my brain knows what she is, understands why ( thank you HG) and understands she will not change, but a part of my mind just can’t believe it/accept it. It’s like the world got turned upside down. She was everything, I was nothing. She was smart, accomplished, moral, etc. I was a fuck up. Now it’s the other way round. I’m not corrupt, she is. I’m not a monster that they must protect the world from and keep locked up. She is. It was all projection. I dont have to bleed or be bled to earn my right to life. My life. My life actually has value other than pain. And my worth is not based on what or how much I can endure. I guess it all boils down to trying to figure out what I’m good for now. If my life isnt supposed to be about enduring, then what’s it supposed to be about. That’s why I keep talking about her, reading about her, learning about her, to find me. I dont know where else to look. She made me what I am. Now I have to un-make me and become something else. I need to know what normal is. So I start by trying to understand what normal isnt. I dont know that that even makes sense. So I keep reading, listening, pondering hoping one day it will all click into place and life will finally make sense and a clear path for what’s left of my life will reveal itself.

      1. Merrymagenta, did you struggle with having your own identity? I have one, sort of, but it’s layered with narcissistic expectations of what I should be or have to be to protect myself. So I’m struggling with finding the untainted “me”. Everyone says, oh you’re free now. Free to do what? My thinking and thought processing is still contained by narcissistic training my entire life. I’m very open to suggestions. Thx

      2. merrymagenta and IdaNoe,
        I have a Narc-Mother too. I’ve been working through a lot of my own pain and dysfunction recently. I’ve been getting an understanding of what it is to be a Daughter of A Narcissistic Mother, reading a lot, and crying about as much.
        A daughter doesn’t know who she is, is so dissociated from her feelings, and has to deprogramme her mind from the lifetime of gaslighting she was subjected to. The grieving process is brutal.
        I’m sending you hugs.
        You are both precious treasures.

      3. Having said that about my mum, I don’t know if I would have survived her childhood with her abusive NPD dad. I might have been a drug addict, or suicidal under the same circumstances. Her N-behaviour was a defense/survival against the crazy of life. I always admired her ‘never-say-die’ attitude. She had developed a pathological need to control and know everything (that was her main addiction). That part I detested and felt smothered by, but I can understand it.

  37. TMM,

    I think you’re far too hard on yourself. I can relate to everything you stated above – maybe it had to do with the stimulation and excitement and there is always a piece of ourselves emotionally that was vulnerable and kind of like…not whole…which allowed us to fall into these situations. It honestly takes experience. I have psychologist friends of mine far older than me that are impressed with my ability to pick out those cluster b’s – especially narcissists. The truth is…I only know because of personal experience. I mean sure my training and education has prepared me in some degree but the experiences have taught me so much more than any book could have. HG’s work has helped a great deal and he’s far more on point than any psychologist I have ever encountered re the topic because it is so applicable to how narcissism would present in your every day life. I appreciate certain psychologist’s work don’t get me wrong but there is a whole other dimension to HG’s writing because it is from his own perspective and is overall experiential knowledge.

    1. I’m a SuperEmpath…I’m always hard on myself. 🙂 It’s part of being cerebral and driven.

      I’m finding myself devouring HG’s work because I’ve had THREE high level, high functioning, elite narc’s in my life in 20 years. Every time it’s the intellectual side of it above all else. They’re NOT Somatic. They’re average looking (but always tall) and it’s all about the intellect as I’m sapiosexual. But this last one was evidently the straw that broke me.

      I’m to the point I don’t want to date, AT ALL. I’ll get a dog- they are an Empath on 4 legs. I comprehend all that HG says about the subject, I take it in, but my HEART doesn’t want to accept what my HEAD says; “Girlfriend. Seriously.”

      1. Harvard (TMM),

        I don’t want to date either. I become extremely irritable while engaging because these guys act like such morons. They are so like boring and vapid and some combination of crazy, stupid, boring or shallow. The entire experience is mind-numbing and disappointing.

      2. Harvard (TMM),

        I do find it funny how we have the same classification (magnet super empath) – both tall and need serious mental stimulation. What do you do for a living? If you don’t mind me asking – How old are you?

      3. Bibi,

        Omg you’re so cute lol! You’re a little taller than me…I’m 5’9.

      4. TMM, I could have written this, your narc could be my narc. Me: sapiosexual super empath, he: brilliant greater narc sociopath. Physically wasn’t my type at all but oh, did the initial love bombing do its job.

      5. TMM

        Hg’s books are excellent. If you haven’t already had the pleasure. I recommend his audio consultations, that is where the magic happens.

      6. TMM,

        Interesting entanglements you have had throughout your life with so many narcissist( for me more than one is far too many).
        Just curious , which work ( books) are you referring to you have been “devouring”?

        As far as I know , applying the classification given here ( and just as an observation) :
        If the narcissists you have been entangled with are NOT somatic( as I believe you have pointed out) and just cerebral, they do not belong
        to the Elite cadre which combines both the cerebral AND somatic aspects.

        The classification and denominations are thoroughly explained throughout the books (and posts) : four cadres ( victim, cerebral, somatic and elite) and three schools ( Lesser, Mid-ranger and Greater).

        “The Victim Narcissist (who plays on being helpless, is often ill (or pretends to be) and is essentially looking for somebody to mother him).
        The Somatic Narcissist whose preferences are led by looks both of him and his victims, material possessions, attending prestigious places and events.
        The Cerebral Narcissist who uses his intellect as the primary device to seduce and devalue
        and the Elite Narcissist who combines both the Somatic and Cerebral.
        These four cadres all have different traits, look for different class traits in their victims and have different hunting grounds where they find most of their victims.”
        HG Tudor. Quora.

        The degree of awareness , cognitive functioning and control threshold places them into any of the above mentioned schools being the ones that fall into the Greater school (narcissistic sociopaths/psychopaths)
        the ones that are aware of what they are, are malicious, calculating, scheming and Macchiavellian.

        “These cadres and schools combine but not in all instances. Thus you can have a Lesser Somatic Narcissist but not a Lesser Cerebral Narcissist. Some narcissists will be on the cusp of certain cadres, possessing traits from each cadre, for example Cerebral and Victim. They may also be on the cusp of between two of the schools. There is much more detail on this but this provides an overview of the types that exist.” HG Tudor. Quora.

        Of course, you may want to disregard this observation if you are applying your “ own” denomination of “Elite”.

        I do believe though that by reading and fully comprehending, grasping,understanding , recognising and placing the narcissist in the right cadre and school they belong to( depending on his/her specific traits )should be the first step for an effective disentanglement . Which I believe is the main purpose ( or one of the main purposes?) for you participating on this blog?
        Besides, it seems you have disentangled effectively from the former ones?

    2. 6’2″. I’m mid-40’s. I have 5 degrees and switch professions with both the economy and my desire to learn something new. I have my own businesses which I run at varying intensities/levels and usually hold an anchor job as the perks of employer carried benefits are too nice to pass up.

      My recent entanglement was similar to me; brilliant and a tech-nut. Financially solid. Tall. Blue eyed. Laser wit/humor. Socially awkward due to just being smart and not willing to hide it. Single parent. Our music interests, movie interests were too similar too early on for him to have mirrored it at that point (no access to my libraries), and he told his ex I hit points in his intellect no one had. (which may/may not be true) but was a nice little ego boost as I get TIRED of men who can’t talk about anything but a 3 prong topic set: football, cars, sex. Sigh.

      1. Harvard (TMM),

        If that’s your eyeball – you have a pretty eyeball lol! In all seriousness though you sound pretty damn bad ass – very impressive – and I’m not easily impressed lol. Clearly you’re a philanthropist as well because you perform charity and grace these peasant narcissists with your presence LMAO!

        I’m 31 – a psychologist from NY. Are you a New Yorker?

      2. HG,

        You know I’m not calling you a peasant lol. We’ve established you’re different than the typical narcissist.

      3. Same, in fact in the very beginning, when I just knew he wasn’t quite right socially and emotionally, I initially shrugged it off to his brilliance making him so different from his peers. 🙄

      4. Hey!

        Lookout where y’all are walkin’ down here!! I’m 5′ 2(and)1/4″….. and I’m tired of being stepped on and overlooked by all you giants striding the earth….. give me a break…..

        and please where are all the nice guys my size??? I don’t want a crick in my neck, yet I don’t want to be dealing with a “Napoleon complex” either!!! (or maybe they were just lessers??!!….geez, that makes sense now)

      5. Me too, (5’2) but my hubby is 6′, so it doesn’t matter about size. Everyone knows its not what you got, but how you use it. I have size 3-4 feet too.
        I prefer taller men. Makes me feel more secure I guess. I could never picture HG with someone short though.

      6. Perse:

        I am tall but fairly shy and soft-spoken till you get to know me. I have met plenty of 5’2″ people who are spitfires!

      7. that’s really cool! How does it work tom have your business and also work with an anchor job? I admire you. very inspiring.

  38. I FINALLY do not care! I finally told him he was boring, and I had no personal interest in him anymore. He has not contacted me since- I know only a few weeks ago. However, “I” do not care!!!!! I am not angry anymore, could care less who he is abusing, doing, courting, golden whatevering! I am happy! I do not care! However, like a drug addict this is now my narc- anonymous meeting place! To remind me of what I have overcome– and I do not check in every day anymore!!!!!!!

  39. My option isnt there to vote.

    I don’t think about the narcissist now apart from the odd sad melancholy thing.
    I’ve done a lot of work taking a lot of advice and used the totem as taught here on the blog.

    Only thoughts are in as much as I think what a damn shame ….it could have been so good and it’s a shame a real damn shame that it turned out to be nothing but a disappointing episode of nothing.

    It is just a sadness…
    that’s all I think about as regards my nex, IF I think at all.

    Sadness ends.. it always ends or at least becomes minimal.
    I’m perfectly capable of being deeply in love going forward.
    Damn straight!!!

    And that’s what I’m going to damn well do in time.

    Nobody is going to damn well take that away from me.
    No chance.

    This may sound arrogant but it isn’t I promise, it comes from a position of strength… to say
    from now on:

    “him worthy to receive me must prove it”

    I think it’s about damn time to lift heads up from the floor to ditch swirling anxieties and to stand absolutely tall and look these bastards in the eye.

    It is time to get real, they either get real with me or they take an enforced hike.

    Some power is a facade…
    other power is real.
    I know which I have .
    Its the power of 1 it’s the power of myself. Gentleness wields a great deal and love is extremely Powerful.

    Kindness is all no matter what the narcissist says.
    I learnt about bullies in the goddamn playground.

    I’m not having it as an adult they can back off ..way off.

    It’s either get with the program or that’s it.

    Yes I’m on one today! lol

    just sayin’….😜

  40. HG,

    “So keep in mind, just because you may not be spending time physically with the narcissist you may still be engaging in some way (and thus of course increasing your emotional thinking).”

    I voted, but isn’t this poll very similar to:

    POLL : WHAT TESTS YOUR NO CONTACT RESOLVE THE MOST?

    1. Most likely, but remember new people come to the blog all the time and do not always go to the archives (or if they do, do not go through everything – which of course they must be reprimanded for!)

      1. “Most likely, but remember new people come to the blog all the time and do not always go to the archives…”

        True.
        There does seem to be a lot of new people on the blog…and it is nice to get a bit of ‘intro’ from them when they respond to a poll and then expand upon their selection…Admittedly, I have not read all the past articles and I’m sure there are some great past polls – also, for long-timers (is that a good designation? lol) I could see how it’s useful even to revisit similar questions and evaluate where they’re at in their emotional thinking etc… it just seemed fairly recent after the ‘no contact’ one, just an observation…I guess I like surprises and variety…I LOVED the super power poll though – it still keeps me thinking.

      2. Twilight – glad to share a laugh with you 🙂 …I just saw this now.

        I don’t know if it’s because the comment thread is so long this ‘poll’ but I haven’t received notifications for your reply and others here. But I continue to receive from other postings…hopefully I haven’t missed someone’s comment back to me here – if that’s the case – sorry!

  41. I would think that ADHD females would probably be more drawn to a narcissist or a psychopath because of the need for higher levels of stimulation.

    1. Hi Dr Harleen
      I am an I introvert , don’t like big crowds and can easily amuse myself without needing people.I am very intuitive and I would say the polar opposite of someone with ADHD.
      I know that makes me sound lack a mad recluse living in a cave somewhere but no I have a very public job so that helps balance me .
      I attract narcs like a bee to honey I am only becoming aware of if now.
      I get suckered in , but always have a deep down awareness that something is off but I always end up with a narc honing in on me Sometimes I wonder have I narc bait tattooed on my forehead.
      I wonder why , I am not a stimulating party goer , I am not the life and soul of gatherings ,I am quiet , gentle and reserved a bit aloof and prefer not to talk too much.
      If I was an animal I would say I am like a cat , aloof and Quiet and it takes time to get close to me .

    2. I had wondered If being ADHD had something to do with why he was able to keep me engaged with him for so long before it became necessary for him to threaten myself and loved ones with violence.

      I also had been blaming my being treated for ODD, and an overly violent sense of self defense.

      “You have to understand that people are not trying to hurt you!”

      Well, they are, in some cases.

      I do think you are onto something there, Doc. Plus, we are easily distracted when the narcissist uses deflection to defend himself.

      This poll comes on grandma Narcs 99th birthday. Thank you, no more calls wishing the GMN a happy bday, only to be bludgeoned with what an ungrateful grandaughter i am!

      But I did choose the last choice, “I don’t know, I can’t let go” because I do still deal with people we knew together, and his name comes up. Some I have not even bothered to tell. Maybe they think I’m a cold bitch for not reacting with some grief, when they try to be comforting.

      “let’s speak of something pleasant, instead” would not be an understandable option to those who didn’t know what went on “below the surface”.

      1. Perse,

        You have ADHD and ODD too? You are in good company LMAO!
        When I’m at war with someone and we are in some verbal battle I don’t get distracted at all. I get irritated at the bullshit and word salad because it’s insulting and I feel like I’m talking to a fucking mental patient LMAO. I think you’re pretty damn awesome! I didn’t realize we had the ADHD and ODD in common….

        I think the ODD factor makes people like us more difficult to control. The second someone tries to silence me in any way…we have a HUGE problem. If someone tells me who to be and how to behave or think or how to feel….I blow. That is why these mid rangers make me want to punch them in the throat lol.

      2. I got excited and looked into ODD thinking I might have an actual diagnosed behaviour and belong to a specific group, but it turns out I’m just a regular straight up bitch. Sigh.

      3. Kathy Mor
        I dont know my IQ. Unlike Sheldon Cooper-my mother never had me tested. I do know that I have more than one report card that said: bright but wont apply herself lol.

      4. HG
        Re: lazy bugger.

        Haha, I appreciate the laugh.

        In all seriousness though, I would add this because it is something I have thought about:

        In addition to other factors, my abuse differed from yours in that you had someone (albeit for their own interests and not yours) that recognized your potential, so pushed you, prepared you, and made crystal clear to you the consequences of not applying yourself (“you do not want to become him do you?”). It has allowed you opportunities that have undoubtedly led, or at least added, to your success. I was not determined to be worthy of any consideration in that respect because “being smart doesn’t bring any goddamned money into this house so I’m sure as shit not putting money out for you to waste time”. We are all victims of different circumstances and outcomes in our abuses.

        I am not trying to diminish your experiences in any way. I was just thinking if there is any such thing as a silver lining in yours, I would think that might be it.

      5. NA, I made straight A’s all through school, owned the SAT and graduated in the top of my class with honors. I don’t use it to pick up guys though. My IQ was tested by the school as a child, but those results were never revealed to me. It doesn’t matter. Intelligence speaks for itself, and yours does.

      6. My narc mom was too busy drinking to test me either. Bummer.

        IQ is not a measure of emotional intelligence as you can tell. Look at us.

        HG… I was thinking after our conversation… I read a book about emotional intelligence that taught me nothing other than nice concepts on a piece of paper. Good work but hard to apply those with narcs.

        Maybe that could be a focused idea for you to explore in writing form and honor us to add to our personal library. The application of emotional intelligence so Empaths can understand it since we are truth seekers. Another topic could be BDSM and how many narcs are attracted to the practice. What differentiates your Master for the narc using the Master’s facade to manipulate willing subs into his twisted games.
        I love BDSM. I love being controlled. But I refuse to go down that path.

      7. Great idea, Kathy. It was BDSM that caught me out the last time. It’s difficult to differentiate

      8. Yes it is. I was talking to Renarde about it. It seems that 90% or so of the Dominants are narcs. It has to do with the control in a relationship. My narc was very smart on how he did things to blur the lines between dominance and abuse. While he never hurt me physically in terms of impact play, I felt that he used dominance is the sexual act to get me. So if what a vanilla narcissist does is already intense, imagine that with the BDSM aspect embedded. Yeah, I learned the lesson. And it totally matches with HG’s book because he did what I liked. Most Doms are not so giving like that. But the little time he had with me, he spent giving me pleasure because that showed what a sex god he was.

      9. NarcAngel,

        Please…I would never associate you with the word regular…in any capacity.

        Besides – you’re a sexy smart bitch – the best kind! lol xo

      10. Perse,

        I remember my ex dirty doc would make comments about my oppositional behavior toward the very end lol…

        When we started talking we were playing that music game. I sent him the following video.

        He said it really represented me lol

        I refuse to let him ruin the song for me lmao…

        I’m sure you can relate….

        sending you love from afar

      11. Hey Doc!

        Thanks for the wonderful lush music starting my day!
        Yes I can relate, and the video kinda solved a mystery for me!
        Years ago, and another life, I used to ride my bike to the top of the parking garage in my little city at sunset. Then I would watch all the lights in the big city come on as the sun set. One of those was a bright white neon cross that said ‘JESUS SAVES’. I didn’t go for many years, but one evening when I felt like I REALLY needed to get myself some alone time, I never saw the cross light up that night, and I wondered what happened to it. Then it shows up in this video. It looks a lot smaller IRL.
        Thank you Doc!
        Perse

      12. Oh no….HG its dedication hour LMAO!

        This gem just came on my playlist…

        So youuuuu

        This one is just for you….but we can rename it triple track mind lol

        Love is like problems
        We all got ’em
        A dark night, remember
        The sunrise, surrender
        There isn’t any other way
        There isn’t any other way
        Hands tied, remember
        It’s suicide to surrender
        There isn’t any other way
        There isn’t any other way
        I have a one track mind
        I have a one track mind
        There is a method to the madness, to the madness
        Gotta have a one track mind, ooh
        The sex and lies, remember
        Look in my eyes, surrender
        There isn’t any other way
        There isn’t any other way
        Outta luck, outta time
        Outta sight, I’m outta mind
        Mind
        I have a one track mind
        I have a one track mind
        There is a method to the madness, to the madness
        Gotta have a one track mind, ooh

      13. HG & NarcAngel,

        That doesn’t mean she’s lazy lmao – some of us got that on their report card because they didn’t give a shit and/or had no interest in what was going on…

        JUST SAYING ::COUGH COUGH – I CAN RELATE::

      14. In my case I call it having difficulty sustaining attention for prolonged periods of time on shit I don’t give a crap about. Furthermore, I also had significant difficulties in the area of Executive Functioning. There are some people that don’t fit into the conventional education system it doesn’t mean that they are lazy or stupid. The behaviors of many individuals labeled as ADHD could be perceived as laziness but it is in fact not.

      15. “Does not apply herself” “Not working to her potential” How would they know? They either are backwards in making the lesson interesting, trying to teach what you already know, or just trying to cram government propaganda BS into our heads.
        I did have straight As when on medication. After that, I just read what I wanted in class, just passing by nearly always getting perfect tests.
        I LOVED taking tests, and attributed my high IQ score to this factor, only. (Smart people don’t ride their bike across the top of the spillway to avoid having to get off the bike and walk it across a bridge.)
        School was boring enforced incarceration for 7 hours, 5 days a week, under guard by (mostly) idiots.

      16. 🤣🤣🤣 Too funny!!! I made straight A’s taking mostly AP classes but had the biggest disciplinary folder in high school. They shook their heads in confusion. I was definitely applying myself and reaching my potential but like you, part of “realizing my potential” was realizing they had me in a penitentiary setting. I often loved breaking out! Finally, dropped out and went to college. It was more interesting and no more disciplinary problems. Go figure…

      17. Its also hard to care about or focus at school when you lack sleep from being kept up to be used as a buffer against violence, or when you do go to bed – listening for any sign of trouble. To get up before school to deliver newspapers to have some pocket money only to have it “borrowed” but never repaid. To take care of the younger kids and make sure they have clean clothes for tomorrow and homework done before you do your own. To be told that you will not be going any further in school because there is no money and it is a waste of time so you had better get a job. When you are so exhausted from just trying to get from one day to the next in one piece and then arriving at school to be made fun of for your cheap clothes, cheaper haircuts, and a brown bag for lunch with a jam sandwich you slapped together yourself. To wonder what awaits you tonight at home while the teacher is speaking about angles youll never use and places youll never see. Not lazy or stupid, no.

        I’m not looking for sympathy. Just highlighting the reality in many homes. Im happy for those who have received a higher education and it is absolutely something to be proud of. The truly educated and intelligent will use it to effect change for the better and for all. They recognise there are those who may simply not have been afforded the opportunity they were and are grateful, so there is no need to use it to assert superiority but rather to share. It is a sign of the truly weak to be threatened by the sharing of knowledge and to cling to education as validation and measurement of their worth.

        It works the other way also. Those who were not afforded the opportunity of a formal or higher education should not scorn those who were, and must be able to put pride aside and to seek out and accept help from those willing to share. There should never be shame in learning. It is not always easy to admit we do not understand or to ask for help, but we should also remember that it was not easy for them to attain the knowledge that they are sharing. It is a gift to both give it and receive it.

      18. Perse,

        Fuck yeah! I agree with and can relate to everything you said!

        I knew I liked you!!! Lol!!!

        Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

      19. NarcAngel
        There aren’t words to describe how we feel reading the things you’ve shared here.
        I want to tell you what an incredibly brave little person you were, and are, to have survived that, and deal with the memories and undoubted pain they’d cause you.
        You have just cause to be bitter, or on drugs, or dead, and yet we find you to be a woman of depth, insight, intelligence, kindness, edginess, and with a low tolerance for BS. Did I mention your razor sharp wit? You are a person who has my admiration, and my deep respect.

        The details of your life remind me of my mother’s, her dad’s, and my sister-in-law’s, with regard to research that shows how early trauma shapes the brain. We cannot concentrate when we are hypervigilent to escape physical violence, when we’ve been unable to eat dinner, and had to leave the table in tears from being yelled at and humiliated. We can’t sleep listening for the sound of an approaching molester. We can’t sleep when we’re cold, hungry, anxious, insecure, lonely, listening to screaming rages in the next room, and feeling overwhelmed by shame. Maslow’s Hierarchy shows us that we have no ability to engage in activities higher up when needs below aren’t met. This is doubly so when there is no one there to make us feel safe, seen and heard, let alone encouraged. When there’s no one there to make it happen for us, or finance things for us, and just be on our side for once. When we can’t be a kid, and are overburdened with adult responsibilities, or tasked with parenting our parents.
        My N-mum was regularly belittled in childhood and told “education is wasted on a girl”, so she had to go to work at 14, while her brothers got to go to university. She grew up in borderline impoverishment, and was bullied by the nuns at school for not having socks. Or not having the right colour socks. Or not having “a saints’ name”. All Catholic BS makes me so angry.

        I know you feel uncomfortable with gushing displays of emotion, but I see that you are a person of great courage, tenacity and resilience, and worthy of admiration and respect. And love.
        Thank you for sharing those very personal details. You have nothing to prove to anyone. Each person’s life is not really comparable to anyone else’s. There are too many variables, none of which a child has any control over.

    3. I would tend to think it is because we are the sitting duck! Rejection sensitive dysphoria lights up like a glow stick in a narcissists scope. Before we have a chance to dodge the bullet, bam……dead in the water

  42. I don’t engage at all with any narcissist or narcissistic psychopath that I have had a romantic relationship with in the past. Other narcissists and psychopaths I engage with are work related because I have to due to my profession lol. Outside of that…it’s only you HG LOL. I’m gonna have to go with the mental stimulation and the fact that I admire some of the traits you have and appreciate your uniqueness. BOOM …didn’t think of that one did ya lol

    1. I identify. Sometimes the only way you get the cerebral side is to go with someone who is so incredibly sharp they are actually dangerous.

      1. “Sometimes the only way you get the cerebral side is to go with someone who is so incredibly sharp they are actually dangerous.”

        Very untrue. You’re the one providing the imagination and stimulation with a narc. My husband is brilliant, but he’d likely score slightly lower on an IQ test than my first narc first boyfriend (anyone but Stephen Hawking would.) However, my husband’s more intelligent because he’s more wise. He knows himself, he cares deeply, and he has an actual internal life.

        If you want danger, take up mountain climbing or something. It’ll give you a lot back. A narcissist is dangerous like a tapeworm is dangerous. Get close to one, and they’re gross and harmful and dull dull dull.

      2. The high a narc can give you is incomparable. Only an empath can experience that to its fullest extent. I think you can call HG anything in the repertoire but to say that he is dull? Nope. I don’t think so. My experience with greaters is that just their silent presence gets me. They don’t need to talk. They don’t need to look. They just need to exist and I feel the magnetism running on my skin. What follows next is consumption. Not sharing. Not double performance. Not sexual marathons. Consumption where I become him and he absorbs my vital energy. That’s why it is so lethal. It is an unique experience that a true empath usually experiences once in a lifetime because it is encompassing that if you leave that symbiotic relationship alive, that is a gain.
        So no. HG is everything but dull.

      3. Kathy Mor

        Yes, I like your description. I do not know and do not want to presume if I’ve had experience with a Greater before, I may have and not known. But I can imagine you are right in the sense that you or them do not have to say or do anything. The energy, and pure fire from these ones, as you say is magnetic, all encompassing. They have to be impressive! For ones that feel and pick up on all senses and more than the average person, empathically, emotionally, you could no doubt feel when one was in your presence.
        Its like exactly as HG describes in “If you go into the woods”, where they “make you feel strange but in a good way.” (Hg’s words).
        They have the confidence to look you in the eye, and hold it, and not many have that direct stare as if they see straight into you.
        As if they can literally see all your walls, guards, and weaknesses, and how to get in, and what exactly to use. Like they see a 3D blue print of your mind, your heart and emotions, and scour around, like they are planning to conquer you.
        “Those eyes which promise so much of that which you want to experience draw you in and you have to, you want to obey.” (Hg’s words again).
        I’ve felt very symbiotically attached to ones, and as if they have this invisible hold over me. It is like everything inside you is telling you to walk away, but you naturally want to become compliant.
        I hate that a person can have that much power over you, but I also strangely respect it.
        They are exactly like a storm!
        Storm Tudor……

      4. Category 6 🙂
        I have read that yet but I will get there. I must say that it is an unique experience. Greaters are far more difficult to be found, than the other types. An upper mid range can resemble some of those features but can’t sustain the energy and mental level needed. It is consuming. But you have to keep in mind that when they are seducing you is heaven. When they are disengaging is Hell. Bigger, more powerful extremes on both sides.
        The better the fuel, the better the consumption. Has nothing to do with the outside aspect of a person, looks and etc… it has to do with what they get from the sweet, meek, submissive nectar from your core…. elixir as my ex narc used to call my love for him.

      5. I’m usually alone. I occasionally will let someone in- though more often than not I wind up finding I’m happier without the hassle. I don’t need someone…there are just times I do want to share things.

      6. HG,

        I can assure you we know you’re not dull lol. You’re not a typical narcissist and you’re a damn psychopath…

        Psychopaths are more interesting anyway LMAO

      7. Christine,
        A Narc being dull depends on the Narc. Just my opinion- which like everything else…you can accept or ignore….

        Cockwaffle was a ton of fun until he started the games. Even in the games, he was fun- he just didn’t know I knew what he was doing, and played along until I went nuclear. Nothing was dull after that.

      8. Replying here for Kathy Mor as I cannot reply directly to her comment regarding BDSM.

        On the back of what we were talking about Kathy, I also talked to another GEN about this. He, like me, is scene and like HG is also utterly open as to his own, true nature, We talk a lot. Chatting today actually. This GEN is in agreement up to a point on the N-E dynamic and the D/s one and therefore, whilst he has had subs in the past, he now doesn’t engage that way.

        I now really seriously wonder if the whole PE in totality ever works because it is so often not entered into with the correct of intentions. That RACK and SSC must always be observed. During Golden Time, of course these will be and might well go on for many years if it’s a IPSS with never a true devalue and only the odd correction from time to time.

        This will lull others’ into believing that true D/s is possible. Many subs operate in the DLS category too although I had one brave GEN who made a humongous (for scene) All Points Broadcast last year. It was there for everyone to see. Given his position in the community and my own there was a perception of us possibly as ‘the Golden Couple’ and certainly he would have grabbed the kudos for bringing unruly Ren to heel. Possibly, some were wondering how on Earth he did it as I made a point of refusing to enter into any kind of dynamic with pretty much any Top or Dom. That’s why I became notorious, I suspect. That plus mouth and writing.

        A lot of the locals have made a play but I always quietly dissuaded them by just not letting them truly engage in the first place. Too many possibilities for gossip. That was pre-weaponisation too.

        I’m observing something really intresting with the GEN’s which I’d like others’ thoughts on if possible? They are slowly revealing their own natures to those that they perceive can handle it or, in other words, won’t seek to ‘out’ them. Not because they can’t handle it because they obviously can and with ease too. I sense something is going on.

        The ex-Gen left too many clues in his messages to me. When he did come back on the IGU he had changed tack and had dropped the softer side of the facade with me. Oh we both now knew the truth. I would get messages such as;

        ‘Why are you trying to make me jealous?’

        ‘Why is our bond so strong?’

        ‘Why do others’ allow such blatant abuses to continue?’

        ‘I watch you all the time’

        Interesting, eh?

    2. HG you are the only narc with whom I engage. You are the only narc for me. LOL

      So why do I keep coming back? Excellent writing, fun and helpful commenters, learning more about myself, and knowing that I have now more power over them due to the knowledge I have gained.

    3. Christine,
      no comment on HG who’s blog I’m obsessed with,
      but I just love “dangerous like a tapeworm”. It does remind me of someone.

      1. Hi Christine. Again, cannot reply directly. Yes, some can be dull but out of the five or so Greaters I have known, dullness has never been present. In fact, they can be extremely mentally stimulating and being in their company is often a riot.

        Another aspect to their addictive qualities. GEN’s usually have a wicked sense of humour too and they would frequently have me in gales of laughter.

  43. I have an IQ of 128. Went to Harvard. Financially sound single woman. Tall. Voluptuous. High sex drive. SuperEmpath/Magnet.

    It’s preposterous. I’m stuck on this ridiculous, high-functioning, greater narc because intellectually I didn’t have to dumb myself down to him, he didn’t need my money, and physically we were off the charts from the get go. He’s a lying snake with multiple sources and had at least four of us going at once. I know, I know, he mirrored, stole traits, and he’s a sex machine as that’s his fuel.

    Every day I’m doing the Exorcism. Every. Day.

      1. Oh…they stimulate a lot of things– but as a sapiosexual, he could be an Adonis but if he can’t discuss a broad range of topics or defend his views…..pffft.

      2. MB,
        I post my IQ in the reference that intelligent people are able to be manipulated and deceived too.

        Dr. Q: I’ll elaborate on my IQ diversity tomorrow, British Baking Show is on Netflix. I’m chuffed.

      3. Wow, thanks for sharing! I’m relieved to know that geniuses can be manipulated too, I just thought it was us ignorant folks that got use. You know, us that can’t think our way out of a wet paper sack. BTW, knowledge and practical application are two distinctly different things. I’ve met a lot of dumb smart people. Good day.

      4. SixTwo757

        Good afternoon….

        Another Sapiosexual here.
        I’m totally with the attitude of, if you can’t stimulate my brain, then stop wasting my time.
        That’s why I love my husband so much. I think his IQ is around 160 something? Can’t remember off top of my head. But he is smart and quick-witted. He makes me laugh all the time. And I need that….
        There are different types of intelligence, and I’m not entirely sure where mine is if I’m honest, but I’ve been told I am emotionally intelligent. Have no idea what my IQ is.

        I’m also a fellow Brit! Its nice to have some more Brits in here. Not that the transatlantic ones do not add to this blog in many ways.

        Nice to meet you!

      5. Dr. Q:
        Verbal-linguistic I’m 154, Logical-mathematical: 118, Visual-spacial: 160, Interpersonal: 145, Intrapersonal: 139. Cumulatively my combined IQ fluctuates between 140-160 depending on what I’m focused on and how much coffee I’ve had.

        I will imbibe your moniker for me along with my morning bean brew, with appreciation. (genuflects)

      6. HG,
        I find that using acronyms is two-fold. Professions use them, and once in the nomenclature, they have their respective place. However, on the social construct…..I feel that they reduce the ability to interpret a person’s intention or response to a can of Campbell’s soup. Just not my thing.

      7. I’m noticing the double-edged sword here which has piqued my interest with Kathy Mor on this thread:

        If I respond to her barbs it shows my doubted Empath side of wanting to know what I’ve done to irk her so (that she insults someone she doesn’t know other than by a blog post comment….) and if I ignore her I validate her armchair diagnosis of my being a Narc as my lack of reaction clearly validates her view I have no care of what others think of me and I just want her/others FUEL.

        That I did not appear meekly and lurk on the blog before posting is part of my personality; I walk into a room and approach whomever I choose to introduce myself to, that’s just confidence. That I indicated my intelligence in defense of the feelings (wounds) I bear of feeling like an idiot for falling for ANOTHER Narc in my life…well, my bad then for triggering her insecurity with that and my matriculation from Haaahhhvahhhd.

        So, I’m just sitting here with my lunch, watching the ongoings…but had to feed both my Empath and Narc sides by hitting the ball back into Kathy Mor’s court.

        I come here for the banter….I’m not disappointed.

      8. Harvard. Have you noticed there are two sides to a magnet, the attractive side and the repulsive side. Think about it.

      9. I dont know what kind of empath I am, but I do know sick and injured animals come to me, present themselves, show up in my life, etc. And I instinctually have an understanding of them. People, for me, are predatory and many times, very transparent and shallow, lacking depth and insight.  I don’t get teachers and guides, I get predators and con artists. Finding HG was years of searching for answers,  not a miracle. As for physical stature,  I’m a short strong squatty body, with high testosterone levels, a fiery redheaded temper and a high tolerance for pain. My IQ in high school was probably below average, after I taught myself to read at an adult level, it improved. Yes, I know my IQ. As for my comprehension,  it depends on the A.D.D. and if I’m stuck in fight, flight, freeze or fuck mode. You want an introduction, well there you go.

        In your world you may be all that and a bag of chips, but in my world, you’re prey. You boast about what you are like it’s a shield that will protect you. You are wrong. It shows your vulnerabilities.  A magnet empath is not arrogant.  They are compassionate, with an innate understanding of peoples insecurities and weaknesses. You have shown none of that here despite your claim.  You’re tall. That equals slow, awkward, gawky  unless you’ve been trained otherwise. It wasn’t on your resume. Voluptuous. Does that mean fat or big titted? Fat slows you down, big tits get in the way. Certain tribal women used to remove a breast, as it interfered with drawing a bow. Again, I’m short so a hard blow to the tit tends to bring tall women down to eye level for me. That eye avatar, means your vain.  There are two types of women, screamers and spitters.  Screamer, scream when the see their own blood. Spitters, lick it off and spit it back at you. A pretty face is an attractive target. Your education means you spent your time protected in books, not fighting your way through the world. Your IQ and need to share it, means you’re insecure about it and need reassurance that you’re smart and well thought of.  So you see, in my world you’re an easy target. You parade your vulnerabilities for all to see. Obviously, we live in different worlds, but the abuse doled out by a narcissist is barbaric and it can create barbarians.

        No one here has trouble with people showing their true vulnerabilities. As a matter of fact, they have been nothing but kind, compassionate and empathetic.  However, no one cares to endure a  flapping peacock trying to lord their facade of superiority over everybody in order to boost their ego. That’s what we’re trying to get away from. If you are empathetic then perhaps you should consider using that big brains of yours and showing some empathy to those around you.

      10. Harvard (TMM)

        I think first impressions last. So therefore, some work up to the kind of confidence that you walked in here with. There is nothing wrong with confidence, intelligence, education etc.

        We ALL have narc traits and empath ones as you know. But many, if not all in here get called a Narc at some point. Any kind of confidence in one’s self, self determination, love of one’s self or the publicizing of ones attributes, talents, certificates, education, how many narc lovers they’ve had, or even a difference in opinion ….can come across to many as Narcissism. People will think what they think. Leave them to it.

        Many of us in here, are just really feisty/fiery empaths. Some have more sass or attitude. Some can come across bitchy, or even jealous. But we all add something to the blog and hopefully most importantly take something away.

        Some of us may be more natural leaders, and others more of a follower type. I’m a bit of both, as the need arises. I’m a chameleon. BPD. I can come across very differently depending on my mood, and what’s going on at the time. But in the big picture, I know I don’t really matter. I am one of many thousands here that read, and learn/comment. I guess we can either make our time here a pleasurable experience or a frustrating one. The choice is ours!

        I felt you came in as very self confident, and very self-assured even happy to admit you are HG’s type. Nothing wrong with that. I just thought…well good for her! But within a group of predominantly females, you’ll get those who like you, and those that are jealous of you. You may trigger others insecurities as you pointed out.

        We are all hiding behind a screen. And anyone with some perception will know that those that appear with a hard outer shell and the most self confident, as if they are indestructible are actually those that are hurting the most inside, and push themselves so hard, they wear themselves out, also often the most lonely/empty…(not always but it does seem to be the case). In my experience, it is this type that have a fear of failure, rejection, and need to feel in control. This may not necessarily be the case with you.

        I often say the wrong thing in here or I say it the wrong way. Do I care? Not really! I know nobody personally in here. I treat this for what it is. A blog for information and support. I’m not here to make friends, nor am I here to judge others and collect fans or even likes! If you have to rely on that then you really are quite shallow.

        I like the banter in here often, and we all get the popcorn out when it gets really good!

        And when HG starts doing bullet points, you know he is wanting to correct multiple inaccuracies and show who is boss here amongst all us appliances!

      11. With all respects for everyone’s opinions, I can speak for myself as you guys can tell by my long and tiring postings. I don’t need anyone to assume what my insecurities are. I can least them in a nutshell. Now while it seems obvious to some of you here, one of them is not about having a “Harvard” degree or looking voluptuous, or having high IQs.

        My degree affords me enough money to live a comfortable life independently of any male. I can also assure you that it is not lack of males that is keeping me single.
        I have at least 4 narcissists circling me like sharks now. Am I lucky or what?

        I doubt many of you would recognize me as such if you saw me strolling in a tropical beach… I was a ballerina for 20 years. Be in perfect shape, perfect lean muscles, perfect body composition is just one of my assets… in the male world.

        Grace is another. Flexibility is a bigger one.
        I can still dance. I am elegant, feminine, delicate, and very sensual. I attract both: males and female narcissists.

        Money, profession, and looks are not my insecurities. They are not what holds me back in life. It is the issue I have inside. The pain I carry with me.

        Before you feel “insecure” about my physical description, ask me at what costs I achieved that “perfection”. Ask me about canes, belts, beatings, and starvation, injuries and cold freezing endless rehearsals. Never good enough. Never. Have you ever tried to dance in the snow? I was forced to do that until my position was correct.

        Ask me about dancing when your muscles cramp, your tendons stretch, and don’t respond to the warm up, your broken bones don’t allow you to take proper position, your blood stains your pointees. And you have to keep a smile on even at excruciating pain.

        More so, ask me if I would do it again given the chance to go back in time. I HATE CARROTS! It is all I was allowed to eat in some days.

        I stand for what I said.

        IdaNoe said all: in our world she is prey.

        A secure person doesn’t have to state their qualities and traits.

        Nobody here knew how I look like, my degrees, how tall I am, how attractive I am, how in shape I am, much less my “IQ”. Who is to say that I don’t have a degree from “Harvard” ? Maybe I do. Maybe I just don’t have to brag about it to call anyone’s attention because I am not here for that. I am here to heal. I am here to learn, to educate myself, to improve my life.

        It makes no fucking difference the IQ, does it? We still got snared in by the narcs. And some here still DO.

        This is my last word on this.

      12. Kathy Mor

        I used to be a ballerina, I only did it for a couple of years when very young. But boy oh boy, do they want perfection from you. Strict, very strict! And yes, I can still stand on my toes!!!!

        I hated it when I had to do the shows with the other girls on stage in front of thousands, and run to get changed into a different outfit, only to come out of wrong exit, and somehow having to merge in with the rest of the ballerinas making it look as if it was all meant to be done like that, dropping my hair pin thingy on the way. All family watching in audience! Yes the pressure was huge.
        I am also very flexible even now, perhaps that’s why….. I ended up having to take piano lessons for the rest of my life. Having to do the Associated Board exams, and if anyone has been to one of those, its like going into a big echoey hall, with a piano, and a stranger sitting at a desk a little away from piano, with paper and pen. They hardly say anything to you. Its nerve-racking, and you have a selection of scales/arpeggios to do, the examiner chooses…3 songs that you have praticed hopefully to perfection, and then you have to sight read a piece of music they put in front of you, or show the timing of their piece with hand movements. They mark it all down how you do, and obviously what you don’t do….and you don’t know whether you have passed or failed til like a week or so later. Its worse than a driving test! I had to take 6 of these, and in one year I took 2 in same year. Got to grade 7, also take grade 5 theory, and got to grade 4 on violin… then father sells piano.
        But I never wanted to go to piano lessons. Sometimes I had horrible teachers. Its not like you get to know one teacher all throughout. But I had one lovely teacher, who actually made it a pleasurable time, and was really like a friend. That made a difference. But only had her for a short time.
        Of course father always saying, I’ve paid for these piano lessons so you will go even if I walked there in tears on my own after school.

        And no it doesn’t make any difference on IQ, money, status, and all those things. It matters what kind of human being you are. That’s about it.

        Thank you for your support to me, and being kind. I don’t forget kindness.

      13. Kathy Mor,

        I know you’ve said your last word but I am right there with you. I have never mentioned any of my accomplishments or described myself. Why? IRRELEVANT. The only reason to post stuff like that is out of arrogance and tone deafness, both of which narcs have in spades.

        TMM claims her daughter is in high school but she had her when she was 20 and is now 45. The whole thing is a load of bs. I was not up to challenging it until last night after a long day’s travel and mind racing at the end of it, so I let you do the heavy lifting. Sorry!

        A few years ago I met a woman randomly on the street and walked with her to an event. I knew immediately she was a ballerina by the graceful way she carried herself.

      14. This is all amusing to me. I’ve never been drawn to pretentious people. I tend to seek out the opposite, I don’t know why. My guess, I think it was because my mother represents (poorly done) facade to me and I recoil from any likeness. It is a shame because the more pretentious narcs have more to offer materially, so I wish I were more shallow. As it is I am an underdog seeker, though it seems to be completely unintentional, just automatic.
        Can you seek/attract/find unpretentious narcs?
        YES, yes you can.
        This blog has made me even less pretentious. And I have a solid ability to discern anyone’s area of intellectual strength.
        I do have a wicked mean streak though and can be verbally violent and condescending, which doesn’t come out much here.
        Also I have a fairly high IQ, so there.

    1. TMM,

      Let me correct myself lol…I can relate to everything you said mine the Harvard LMAO. I was far too much of a fuck up in school as an adolescent – standing ovation for Harvard though! Impressive! xo

      1. I’m ALLLL about the brainy ones. Blue eyes, over 6′ and brains and I’m very attentive. A suitor gets 3 typos and then it’s curtains…..which I know is cruel in a sense…but the texting type of acronyms and teenage nonsense just puts me off instantly. So I keep getting these brilliant but pathological types. Sigh.

      2. There are no LOLs, LMFAOs, ROFsL, emojis, FMLs, TTFNs and so forth with me TMM. Indeed I never abbreviate anything when I text – it is the mark of quality.

      3. Maybe they will make a love connection, NA!

        Who posts their IQ? How does one know their IQ? (No offense TMM). I just found it odd. What the highest IQ? I’ll get to Googling.

        Is it 900 like a credit score? Ha ha

      4. MB, I think its just another respecting quality and intelligence in another person. Sort of a nod of respect.

        I don’t know if any of you are bikers in here… but my husband is or was, and I would love to ride on the back. When Bikers go past one another on the road, most of them, will give each other a nod, here in the UK. To just kind of say: “I see you, and respect another biker on the road!”
        It was rather funny when we went to France with some other biker friends on a trip, and over there we did the same thing, nod, and nobody was nodding back. We just thought they were all impolite or something! Then bikers started going by and as they went past, stuck one leg out, and so that was their equivalent to our nod if you like.
        HG respects and admires quality, and intellect. TMM does too. There are other things HG admires too, and we are all different but unique in what we bring to the blog.
        I also do not abbreviate anything in text, or hardly ever use emoji’s, maybe it is a British thing, who knows?!

      5. LOL 😃 lmao 😂😂😂 (soz, I couldn’t help myself)

        Seriously though, I learned a new word… sapiosexual… Thank you for that TMM.

      6. I use emojis and abbreviations sparingly. I think that they can be a surefire way of conveying tone – in that particular role they aid accuracy. They can also aid efficiency because of assisting with accuracy and avoiding the back and forth of ‘what did you mean by that?’

        (I think that HG enjoys the ambiguity of some of his straight-forward, tone-free answers – because they invite emotional reactions *depending* on when/where a responder is in their emotional thinking. Not saying this is intentional – but it does happen – and there must be a bit of an amusement factor in this…)

        Also – emojis, abbreviations, etc., can help to express style, for example, Bubbles would not be ‘Bubbles’ (and her particular endearing style) without her emojis and characters. Some people just rock them better than others…Hats of to you Bubbles!

        HG – I doubt that you begrudge style, accuracy and efficiency – but I’ll bet my pink unicorn mug that you don’t like glitter 😉

      7. I like glitter too, MB…and other shiny bits…
        Er..um…I said “pink unicorn mug” for effect.. and humour. Not that I wouldn’t use a pink unicorn mug – but I don’t own one.

        I *do* have a ‘princess’ mug and a ‘dragonlady’ mug…MB; you’re welcome to the princess mug – I stole it from my narc. He used to keep it sitting, pristine and unbaptised by coffee, on the window ledge above his desk. I took it and refused to give it back…still have it. Yes, I know…everpresence. But, aesthetically, it has the most beautiful shape and being very tactile – I love the ‘feel’ of it warm, with coffee and/or tea in the cool, late-summer mornings here.

        You can’t have my dragonlady mug though – I’m not much of a ‘princess’ type, in the traditional sense, but my dragonlady mug…? It is much more apt for me and was a present from a dear friend.

        Truthfully MB, I’d love to find the pinkest, most glittery unicorn mug and send it your way…

      8. WC, thank you. I like all things glitter. Especially my toenail polish. Yes, I’m in my forties and love glitter and Taylor Swift. I’m making up for that extended tomboy phase as a child I suppose!

        Why would a man have a princess mug at work? Above his desk sounds like it was at work. Maybe he was saving it for The One? Maybe he wanted women to ask about it to start a conversation? I can totally see myself taking it too. I used to find any reason to poke around in his office when he wasn’t there and every reason to go in when he was.

        You go dragonlady! 🐉 Oh, and thank you for the unicorn mug. 🦄

      9. MB,

        The princess mug was not on his work desk but at home, where only I could see it. Yes, one of those things they do that just make you wonder ‘why?” There are specifics that I won’t go into here but I feel it was a statement…for me…a way of conveying how I had let him down. Just sitting there where I could see it every day.

        I’m only using it atm because it found it’s way back to me and my most favourite mug (shaped as a fox) suffered a hair-line crack after I fumbled it…and because I save my dragon-lady mug for when I’m working on particular creative projects.

        I already trashed the mug he actually purchased for me ages ago…I’m saving the princess mug for when his current conduct really pisses me off…it’ll feel good to just smash it to little bits someday.

        You rock that glitter toenail polish MB – no matter how old you are! I’m close to you in age and I still don’t feel ‘grown-up'(not to suggest that you aren’t grown-up by doing so)…I suspect that I never will. I feel like such a fake I’m “adulting” – because I’m actually a lot more playful than I let on in my personal life…but I always feel under scruntiny these days…so that part of me usually only comes out when I’m giddy from fatigue – or drunk (and the latter hasn’t happened in a long time.)

        P.S. I love glittery eye shadow for events such as Hallowe’en…or New Year’s eve…or on occasion; for no good reason at all…

      10. TMM,

        I totally officially have a girl crush on you LMAO. I’m a sapiosexual as well and I get bored easily. The typos and abbreviations don’t throw me off though because there are plenty of people who have learning disabilities and what not and are extremely intelligent. I am more looking at content and the way they express themselves verbally.

      11. Shoot, MB! Don’t you all have liquor warehouses in NC? It’s just a type of wine. Even I can get it if I drive all the way to a city with a liquor barn. Just go to one and ask.

        Are the liquor stores in NC drive-ins? I was shocked to find that liquor stores in Kansas don’t have drive in windows. Maybe that’s only a feature where you have dry counties and people drive 50+ miles to buy alcohol.

      12. Windstorm, We have ABC stores but they are only for liquor. Wine is at the grocery store. We also have these huge Total Wine & More stores. Next time I’m near one, ima pop in there. Surely they have it! I’m a red wine girl, but I’ll have Chardonnay sometimes. I’ve just never tasted Chablis and I want to. We have a few drive-in “package stores” they call them scattered around, but they are mainly for beer and ice. You can only buy liquor at the ABC store.

      13. MB
        It’s always interesting to me to learn about other cultures. I just responded to Twilight about how it’s probably different here because all alcohol sales are illegal in my county. If your customers are having to drive 30-50 miles one way to buy alcohol, it only makes sense for the liquor stores to carry everything.

        Same thing with groceries. I have to drive almost 100 miles round trip to get groceries. It would be ridiculous to expect me to go to one store for vegetables and a different store for milk and another for bread when I could go one place for everything.

        Could be that a store could survive just selling beer since more people drink beer, but it would be smarter to have a selection of other things to draw in more customers. Otherwise you’d lose out on all the people who wanted to stock up on more than one type of alcohol on their way out of town.

      14. Windstorm

        It is hard to find here in Virginia, I have looked. I had never seen an ABC store till I moved here I always though one could buy any type of alcohol at the market (grocery store), and you have drive thru.

      15. Twilight,
        Don’t know what an ABC store is. Never seen one. Made me laugh that you all can buy any type of liquor at the grocery! Selling any alcoholic beverages is illegal in my county! Maybe because so many counties in Kentucky are “dry” like mine is why the “wet” cities have big liquor warehouses where you can buy just about any kind of alcohol that’s out there. I’m sure the one I go to has a section of just Chablis.

        But I’d be shocked if even the smaller liquor stores I know would not run to fetch me a bottle if I pulled up to the drive thru window and asked. And if they didn’t have it, they’d ask me just what label I wanted and be sure to have it next time I came by.

        I do think it’s hilarious that someone living in a dry county has access to a larger wine selection than people where alcohol sales are legal. lol! Of course I do have to drive almost 100 miles round trip to get to the liquor store….
        But then it’s the same drive to Walmart or Target or any big box store.

      16. Windstorm this cracked me up. I had never heard of a dry county before. I live in the Midwest. When I split up with my first narc (my kid’s dad) he left me with a shit car. He was from Arkansas. I was supposed to drive the car to him and pick up another one. I drove 10 hours just to find out he didn’t have the title settled yet (he didn’t own the one he was giving to me…lesser). Anyway long story short my friend and I got stranded for a couple days in a town with a stop sign and a 2 pump gas station. I thought we’ll get some alcohol while we wait, pass the time. Nothing better to do right? Well shit the damn county was dry. The poor guy at the gas station had to explain it to me because I had no idea what he was talking about. I still laugh to this day remembering what that kid told me. “Well if you drink enough O’douls you might catch a buzz”. He was really trying to be helpful…Oh and biggest spiders I ever saw in that town.

      17. Windstorm and Twilight, update on Chablis scavenger hunt. First off for educational purposes, you can only buy beer and wine at the grocery store, not liquor. Liquor (vodka, whiskey, gin, rum, etc.) can ONLY be purchased at the ABC store which stands for Alcoholic Beverage Control. No worries though, they are quite plentiful, but like Chick fil A, are closed on Sunday.

        In my travels, I was near the Total Wine & More store. Had to make a left hand turn in Friday afternoon 5:00 traffic, somebody blew the horn at me (I did nothing wrong, but it shamed me all the same). Example of shaming experience for another post.

        I looked around first to see if I could find it on my own. Turns out I was right there at it and didn’t know. After asking for help, the young girl asked me to spell it for her twice. She shows be back to where I was under the heading “White Burgundy”. There were, count them, (5) selections of Chablis. I selected the one with 95 points which was also the most expensive of the group at $40. I haven’t tried it yet, but it’s chillin in the fridge for when I’m ready.

        Side note: I made a nifty new friend in there. I tend to do that. He just started talking and telling me all kinds of stuff about the wines he and his wife like, the fact that his wife fusses at him for buying so much wine so he was just looking. (They have 300 bottles and he was quite advanced in age.) Sounds like enough for the duration in my opinion too, but I would never say that. He recommended a Chardonnay for me that they enjoy which I purchased also. Chillin out in the fridge with the Chablis.

      18. MB

        I am just now seeing this, ha ha. I use Chardonnay for cooking. I think ABC store up here are open on Sunday. When I moved here they were not.
        I am on the hunt for Chablis….maybe a trip to NC is in the making.

      19. HG

        “There are no LOLs, LMFAOs, ROFsL, emojis, FMLs, TTFNs and so forth with me TMM. Indeed I never abbreviate anything when I text – it is the mark of quality.”

        It’s the mark of people who are not in touch with their emotions.
        (or of those who write official essays or documents)

      20. Harvard (TMM),

        Were there significant discrepancies between the index scores on your IQ test?

        Why were you given an IQ test?
        If you know…Which one was given to you…?
        What were the Index scores if you can remember….

        I ask cause I’m dying to do some interpretation LMAO.

        Our IQ’s are actually similar – however there are huge differences between my abilities which make the IQ not representative. That is also a common profile for an ADHDer like myself. For example I’m verbally 147 and 123 for perceptual reasoning but my working memory is within the average range and my processing speed as it pertains to things that are visual in nature is within the average range…

        I’m all over the place….LMAO

      21. MB : ‘She’s your type HG’

        Ahahahaha………. I would say nearly every single one of us is HG’s type, in that we have or will spew fuel.

        The REAL problem is HG is TMM’s type. I hope for TMMs sake they never meet.

      22. Her postings reminded me of the “Who’s the Daddy?” I heard on HG’s YouTube. … except she is obviously, clearly, undoubtedly a mid range narc, who thinks of herself as a greater “empath”. What empath would pop in a web site like this bragging about that crap, and the other Dr. whatever is the same. That explains why I don’t respect psychologists. Grab the DSM-6 and memorize the classifications. Haldol and Ativan kills all. Through some Seroquel in and watch for the carbs. HG would toy with her like my cat toys with bugs before she kills them. I vote for HG, today and always. Empaths are loyal.

      23. Perse

        I can say with absolute fact, that I am happily not in any way HG’s type, but that does not disappoint me.

        From what I’ve read in his books, and comments on here, HG goes for a very specific kind of person/empath. Classy ladies, in higher social circles, attractive looking, tall, shapely figure, looks after herself, independent and those with perhaps property, high paid jobs, money, sucess, intellect and education, and such like… and of course empathic are his type.

        I am none of these, except empathic….

      24. Narc Angel:

        Their date banter reminded me of a line from this scene from Annie Hall: “Probably met by answering an ad in the NY Review of Books. ’30ish academic wishes to meet woman who is interested in Mozart, James Joyce and sodomy.'”
        Tee hee! I have been on line with annoying types like this!

      25. 👆🏻 HG, re: your “No LOLs, no emojis, sign of quality” post way above on Sept 19th. I have to Lol because your IPPS’s and IPSS’s, MRN’s, etc kiddingly get on My nerves 🙂 as I haven’t memorized all your abbreviations yet.

      26. They are necessary to save my fingers from having to write the descriptions out time and time again and also save the fingers of commenters too.

      27. HGs abbreviations take a little getting used to Kelly, but it doesn’t take long until they are very easy and quite a succinct form of communicating. In fact, I prefer the acronyms. I think they’ll be added as recognized words to the English dictionary in time as well they should.

      28. Kelly, I agree. The acronyms drive me nutzo too and I have no excuse, because I’ve been reading HGs work for a long time. I just suck and memorizing. I need a printable cheat sheet.

      29. HG, it seems a little insensitive now of me to poke fun over your LOL and Emojis comment, considering your narcissism. Please know I meant nothing personal by it. My narc would always reply to me, “smartass”, (it always felt affectionate).

      30. Just so you know, I do not want to trouble you either, and I am trying not to.

      1. Online dating. The black swamp/quagmire of online dating as I work a lot and will NOT date someone I work with/around. He’s in tech at an equal level of his narc level: elite. We are both very technology minded and programming types. I keep my tech-nut side a bit lower than my creative side- which is my profession.

        I seriously wish I’d never met him in so many ways.

      2. I can handle some emoji’s after the communication has been established and rapport is solid. Inside jokes. Shared ideas. Sometimes a picture would indeed convey all that has to be said. BUT, in the interim….to discuss ideas, thoughts, passions, opinions, speculation, extrapolation, theories, history, politics, science, music, art, parenting, challenges of intellect, social constructs, even the daily grind of traffic and interpersonal interactions……please. spell. it. out.

        The sheer volume of emails/texts, and the vocabulary…. and intellect that flew between myself and this cockwaffle…..it was an epic chronicle of compatible subconsciousness’ sparring with chemistry and sexual tension.

        ….and here I am giving him fuel as I’m thinking on it. Dammit.

      3. I’m quite aware I’m HG’s type… as well as most Elite Narc’s will gravitate toward me. I have three Narc ex boyfriends.

        I have plenty of that wonderful high-octane fuel that HG speaks of….because I’m strong-willed and high-functioning, though I am not co-dependent which means at some point, though I am devoted and loyal….I will let the Narc down. I will still focus on my needs, my children, my job, my companies. And that…is where his creature will manifest and he will start the cycle.

        It’s not me…it’s him. For a while I will tolerate it, until the projection starts, until the lies swirl like gnats, and then I will walk away. Mentally and emotionally I disentangle slowly- but I do walk away. I’ve avoided Hoovers in the past…and side step them as I see them for what they are….it’s the intelligence and mental connection that is the hold.

      4. Harvard (TMM),

        How long were you with him? What was the final fuck it moment for you?

        I understand the wishing you never met him. I feel the same way about…well…all of my narcs but especially my recent one – the older psychologist I just dated.

      5. Dr. Q,
        Forgive me if you may, my disentanglement is ongoing with Cockwaffle and the complexities- and oddities- are something I am contemplating sharing directly with HG first in a consult per his parameters—- it’s quite the story and I’m using his books and guidance as a bit of a ‘key to the map’ of what I’ve just gone through.

        Suffice to say- there were a few “Eff this!” moments but there were several people involved in the hierarchy that Cockwaffle established, so it wasn’t as simple as just extricating myself from it (it never is), and I do have confidence that HG’s history, intellect, prowess, and insatiable appetite/fuel consumption would get a significant buzz from hearing about all of it and weighing in.

        I’m sure it will spur further evaluation and discussion though!

      6. Kelly,
        I’ve seen that in HG’s work- thus…I’m sure his insight will be exceptional to the clusterf*ck that has been this situation.

      7. Hi TMM

        Yes, you did come off as seeking to entice HG, giving him “significant buzz” fuel, and your self descriptions and vague situation seemed fishing for admiration and jealousy.

        Intelligence isn’t a score, after all you’ve been ensnared by 3 Elites as you stated.

        We’re a sister and brotherhood of victims learning and supporting one another. I didn’t mean to interrupt your comments to HG, and wish you a speedy recovery

    2. Empath moment:
      I should have reversed these paragraphs. I’m going through the grief and loss of something non-existent to anyone but in my own mind, as the other half of the equation in question was a vapor.

      It made me feel all the things HG has indicated it would: loss, anger, frustration, grief, confusion…etcetera. I felt connected and alive for something, someone. But it was a reflection- as he had no ability to show me who he was, truly.

      So…I opened with my defense first- I’m not proud that I fell for Cockwaffle’s antics, and that I am educated and know my worth (took years to be comfortable with that) I didn’t perceive it as being a braggart stating my position of knowing I’m not an idiot, but it may have appeared narcissistic to do so.

      I spoke for HG’s review, with no other opinion considered. That what he said of the impact Cockwaffle had on me— was accurate. That it was about him…not me. Cockwaffle’s value, not mine. But….as I often say; it doesn’t matter what the thermostat says, if I’m cold, I’m cold. I felt foolish/hurt and so on…and owned those feelings. If by doing so I ruffled feathers, so be it.

      1. Harvard TMM, we all have our own ways of self defending. We use whatever shield works. You SHOULD be proud of your accomplishments. As ever, emotion can’t be conveyed in this forum as effectively as IRL and it’s easy to be misunderstood.

        Narcissists are quite adept at ensnaring the targets they choose. Don’t feel guilty that it happened to you. You have every right to feel what you’re feeling and express it here.

        You do you and carry on. Honestly, most retalitory comments are about the person making them, not you anyway. For example, reading your comment poked at my own shame and I shrunk to my less than place that I don’t want to go, tail tucked. I don’t know my IQ and I didn’t go to Harvard so I immediately went to my belittled unworthy position. I did that to myself. It had nothing to do with you and logically I know your intent was not to hurt me or anybody else. We all have our issues. Some of us (me) have subscriptions!

        Ps. I like your term ”cockwaffle”. Perfect!

      2. Hi TMM

        Yes, you did seem to come off as seeking to entice HG with a ‘significant buzz’ and your description of you and your situation seemed to be fishing for admiration and triangulation.

        Intelligence isn’t a score. With all of yours, you’ve still been ensnared by 3 elites as you stated.

        We’re a sister and brotherhood here of victims, helping each other. Sorry to interrupt your comments directed to HG, and wish you speedy recovery

      3. Harvard,

        Not everyone is going to like you. People will frequently jump to conclusions but the reality is that you can’t diagnose someone through a computer – I would know lmao. You need more sources of data and what not. You don’t have to defend yourself. I see both perspectives quite clearly. I personally understand your thought process and know you didn’t mean any harm at all. Furthermore, fuck your haters. I highly doubt you are some nefarious individual.
        We are all trying to get through the hurt and quite frankly the disappointment and humiliation and I don’t think it’s fair people are going around judging you. You have my support. xo

        Your Quirky Psychologist Friend,
        Dr. HQ

      4. P.S. No one else on this blog has stated what they look like or how intelligent they are. Not to sound nasty, but don’t assume you’re superior. We wouldn’t have been chosen as victims if we weren’t sporting those similar features. My alarms went off immediately with my narcissist, and I didn’t go to Harvard, not that I couldn’t have. But I don’t want to be a spoilsport, please carryon and I won’t interrupt.

      5. If people think I’m Harvard AWESOME LOL – I take that as a compliment considering my rebellious ass never went to class as an adolescent and would have killed to have the opportunity to go to Harvard.

        Rock on Harvard – No hate here xx

      6. HQ

        I’m not a hater of TMM. I’m an empathic person, I’m a lover, an understanderer:), a truth seeker. No need for you to be Effing anyone on this site. No need to be up in arms. I’m not jealous or hating TMM. I’m admittedly a little suspicious, but if all’s on the up and up, then I understand her as well.

      7. MB,

        I’m sure you’re an intelligent woman. Standard IQ tests aren’t everything and in addition to that there are different types of intelligence….

        I have a lot of opinions on intelligence testing that is beyond the scope of this blog lol….

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