Bridging the Gap





It is hard to resist that temptation to reach out to us isn’t it? No matter how great your resolve, how entrenched you are in your position of maintaining no contact and staying away from us, there always remains that desire to contact us. This is of course something that we designed, a pre-meditated device that was organised to ensure that we flared into your mind repeatedly. This is the effect of ever presence. That additional manipulative good bye we leave you with. Whether we cast you aside or whether you made the bold decision to exorcise us from your life, the effect of this ever presence is difficult to control. The various sounds, tastes, images and scents that immediately bring about a memory of us – invariably a pleasant and happy one as well – have all been placed throughout your life and daily routine so that you are unable to play a certain piece of music, eat a certain meal, go to a certain place or even look upon certain view without that crystal clear memory forming in your mind of that wonderful and exciting time we had together during the golden period. These memories evoke powerful and strong emotions, both good and bad and that is entirely the intention. The effect of ever presence makes you think about us. Most people are creatures of emotion and the nature of our victims, being empathic individuals, means that you are possessed of greater emotion than others. Once again, this was deliberate. Being governed by emotion means that rather than instantly dispel the thought of us, you allow the memory to form and bloom as you savour its effect again. You can hear our voices as we reminded you how much we loved you. You know now that it was a false declaration but the emotion which courses through your body still causes a reaction inside of you and creates the idea that perhaps we still do love you. That might be the case might it? Thus an unanswered question forms in your mind.

A particular song may play on the radio. You sensibly took the step of deleting all those play lists that we created for you from iTunes so that you would not be tempted to wallow as those memorable songs played again. Notwithstanding this purge you cannot legislate for what is played on the radio and your hand reaches for the off switch but you cannot remove the song as the first few chords are played and you are instantly reminded of how we played that song as we led you by the hand into the bedroom, ready to make up after we had rowed and fought. When you heard that song you always regarded it as some kind of peace offering presented by us in order to resolve the conflict. You did not realise that we did this as a means of manipulating your emotions to draw further fuel from you, but we were content to allow you to interpret it the way you wanted. All we required was your emotional response. As you listen to the song, stood in your living room, your eyes drift to the chair where we would always sit as we watched television or read a book. You cannot help but wonder, yet again, where it went wrong? Why did we treat you as we did? Another unanswered question forms in your mind.

It may even be the case that you are checking through your finances and as you scrutinise your bank statements for signs of unusual activity, your eyes fall on that monthly direct debit or standing order that we created when we established a liability in your name. You are stuck with this liability, even though we have long since gone. The cost causes you problems and only goes to exacerbate the other financial problems we left you with. You know you should throw the thought from your mind but it is so hard. The logic tries to tell you to put it to one side, to kill the thought and bury it dead, but the rising emotion will not allow you to do so. The anger rises and you scrunch up the bank statement, your hands shaking with the rage at how we hurt you, how we took your trust and abused it, how you gave us everything, absolutely everything in your pursuit of this supposed perfect love and instead we tore it asunder, we trampled on it, we betrayed it and we threw it back in your face. How dare we take your love and treat this way? Who do we think we are? You want to set us straight and tell us some home truths. There is unfinished business to attend to.

This is how it operates. We want to keep you thinking about us, we want you to contact us or we want you to be susceptible to our contacting you at some point, whether it is a week or a decade later. To achieve this, we create the ever presence so you are reminded of us. To achieve this, we create a situation where you have a need to contact us. You want to ask us why we treated you this way, you want to know whether we did really love you or not, we want to know if you are happy with the new person we have on our arm and what have they got that we have not? You want the opportunity to launch into a tirade and give us a piece of your mind. There are unanswered questions and unfinished business and this makes it so hard for you to resist. You know that you should not engage with us but you want to find out why we did as we did because we just vanished and left you wondering and pondering. You want to understand why we treated you so badly when all you ever did was love us, because, in your world, that makes no sense. These two elements; the ever presence and the unfinished business results in the temptation to reach out to us being very difficult to resist.

If you know where we are, if you hear that we are back in town, if you know there is an upcoming event that we will attend where you will also be there, the desire and the need to contact us again looms large. You promise yourself that you will keep your cool, you swear that you will just ask the questions and get the answers (although of course you will not – we will not give them you as we want to keep that carrot dangling), you pledge that you will not fall prey to our charm. These good intentions will invariably falter because as you reach out to us, hoping to address these pieces of unfinished business, you are allowing us to train our sights on you once again, reach into our bag of charms and look to pull you back into our world once again. You may think that once bitten twice shy, but our bite is both delicious and deadly and through these manipulations we always look to have you wanting more. There may a gap between you and us, but there is always the option to bridge that gap and resume our entanglement once again.



467 thoughts on “Bridging the Gap

  1. Asp Emp says:

    HG, OMFG!! That moron actually said it?!?!?! OMFG!!

  2. lisa says:

    Bloody Hell HG !!!
    For some reason i missed this post so had not read all of this stuff/comments and that’s why i had no idea what anyone was talking about regarding new girlfriend etc.
    Thanks for sending the link K
    Honestly HG i don’t know how you put up with answering all this stuff , sometimes it’s beyond ridiculous!!!!!!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I’m just so generous, you lucky, lucky people!

    2. K says:

      You are welcome lisa
      Ha ha ha…sometimes I wonder if the empaths have any empathy for HG or the reader.

  3. Lori says:

    Oh this thread about Shieldmaiden… what’s wrong with this group??? No one yet has accused Narc Angel of being Sheildmaiden!

    I still can’t forget that thread about her being accused of having an affair with HG. It was all so ridiculous but wildly entertaining!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ha ha, don’t forget that apparently one or two people think I am NarcAngel (of course not – I am funnier!) and therefore I must be having a relationship with myself. God I was great in bed and so was I!

      1. Lori says:

        Oh good lord that’s ridiculous but you have to admit it does bring an element of comedy. Those are the funniest threads ever!!! I always good to have a resident psycho or two around. I found myself laughing out loud. Funny funny stuff!

        I’ll admit if I find those Outlandish accusations endlessly entertaining. I still can’t believe not one person accused Narc Angel of being Sheildmaiden!

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Re: Disbelief at no one here yet accusing me of being Shieldmaiden.

      Those people were flyby agitators. We only retain the intelligent here on the blog.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Tru dat.

      2. Lori says:

        It was hysterical though perhaps not appropriate to be at your expense, but you never seemed to take it too serious and got some chuckles out of it. I found myself returning to that thread for laughs

        I feel terrible for being amused by psychos, but dang it it was funny!!!!

        1. NarcAngel says:

          That stuff doesn’t bother me. It just highlights their inability to articulate anything of worth and so they resort to nonsense. How can they hope to hurt me with mere words? More importantly – why would they, given that they’re claiming to be empaths? It was amusing for a time and good for demonstration purposes, but they’re wasting their time. I only pity them.

      3. Lori says:

        This brings up an interesting point. Do you think empaths knowingly hurt others? I’m going with yes but I’d like another persons opinion

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Re: empaths hurting others knowingly

          Do you mean generally or in instances here on the blog?

        2. shesaw says:

          Lori, at least empaths should be aware that they are capable of it.

        3. NarcAngel says:

          Sure empaths can hurt others. Generally though, I think its more in defence or a loss of control of emotion that results in lashing out, as opposed to being a planned event.

          1. windstorm says:

            There’s a fine line there, though. I’ve often seen empaths deliberately lash out with an obvious intent to hurt. Now granted they’ve learned it as a self-defense strategy because they are easily hurt themselves.

            My friend and I have a colleague who is bossy as all get out, highly reactive and often speaks in a hurtful, unfeeling way. My friend thinks she’s a narc, but I know she’s not. I can feel her very obvious empathy along with her fear and pain. I tried to explain to my friend that she’s actually a codependent (her father was a cruel MR somatic) and she’s adopted this attitude of having to be in charge of everything and being so reactive as a defense strategy. She’s really a rather fear-filled person.

            So in her case, she is purposefully being hurtful, but at the same time she feels like she has no other option. She’s not doing it because she wants to hurt people. She’s doing it because she feals like she has no choice. In some ways she’s like a loose cannon, going off instinctively and hurting people at random. My friend sees and feels the effects on himself, but not her inner fear and pain.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Yes, thats why I decided to say generally, because I’m at the high end of the narcky scale for empaths, so I do know me some bitches lol.

      4. Lori says:

        Narc Angel

        I mean in general. I know I have done it. I can be overly empathetic and I can also be very Narcissistic. I can swing between the two. I ding know if that’s odd or if most people are like that

  4. Perfectly imperfect says:

    Thanks all!

  5. Kellie Mccoey says:

    I love your love comment narc angel. I wish I had loved my narc. Love fades. Trauma bonds are way harder to move on from. I also can’t believe how long the “hole” comment went on for. You knew what she meant Mr Tudor. Your reaction was funny and light hearted. She wasn’t offended so whats the problem? My narc wouldn’t have even responded to the stupid comments following. You have much patients Mr tudor!

  6. DebbieWolf says:

    DebbieWolf on October 14, 2018 at 22:12
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Hi NarcAngel

    I think there is an element of that.
    Because HG has been so helpful to me personally. He has been often kind toward me. I do find it hard to accept that he did this.and also because he probably still does these things is the thing that upsets me. Though nobody says he does still do them..I suppose I think of him in treatment and surpassing these things even though he is what he is and nothing will change.
    I do understand that really.
    But it is difficult when you have admiration for somebody who has guided you and been a mentor and helped you so much..yes there is a separation between him being that kind of hero in a way to hearing him do these horrible things as actual events.

    Because sometimes the articles the way they are written they’re just about the ‘kinds’ of things done… Horrible yes.. but this was really personal about an actual person. Oh, I do not know NA..
    I just burst into tears.
    I felt so sorry for the girl I felt like it was me and yeah I don’t have any kind of memory of anything similar happening with any boyfriend.
    I’ll probably need some time to think about why it affected me this way but I honestly cried my eyes out.
    It is true that I don’t want the man who showed me so much kindness to be so cruel but that is completely irrelevant.
    perhaps it is my own vanity it that for all HG has done for me and that I revere him for it so as to not want him to be anything less than wonderful? Perhaps.

    Also because for some reason I almost lived the article…it was like I could see it in my mind and I could virtually feel the ache in the knee!!!.. Honestly I know this sounds ridiculous…
    I know that sounds very odd.

    And I felt a sense of Betrayal.
    Do I personally feel betrayed ? did I feel the betrayal of Alex?
    I think a little of both.
    And yet it was Alex that was betrayed not me!!!

    HG is completely honest about who he is and what he is. Always has been.
    It is me that needs to get a grip!.
    More for me to think about because there’s some trigger in there.
    Even though it doesn’t have anything to do with me as such.

    Major think for me in a few areas.
    Ill get there.
    Thanks for posing the question NarcAngel.
    It is important to be honest with ourselves and your question serves well. Xx

    Part of a long thread.
    I’ve kept a number of comments that I made in a folder.
    So there is your evidence.
    I don’t do silence and I’ve made many comments about a few people so saying I’ve never had any compassion or remarks about anybody is absurd and can clearly be seen in print.. it did come out of moderation.
    I’ve sent this based on past history where you ask people to prove things.
    And that’s it.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A most honest post.

      1. DebbieWolf says:


        Thank you for acknowledging.

    2. DebbieWolf says:


      Thank you for the acknowledgement.

      1. Renarde says:

        Replying here on Debbie’s response but it’s to all as well. I will start with Debbie though.

        I can totally understand and see your concerns which are valid. I can feel your empathy and if the MSM where ever see your responses, I know she would be touched. However, I’m still with HG and the other posters who are rightly saying but don’t we all come on here and spill? Of course we do because we perceive and we do get help and support from each other. I regularly talk about N-E incidents where there is NO abuse at all.

        It has struck me over the last few days watching Rock-Gate unfold, how very much Emps take the whole issue of sex and intimacy (and by extension, love) to their hearts. That’s why the sex manipulation is so very deadly. However… however, no one is asking the question, seriously pondering what the reaction of a SEM would be on discovering all of this? Not our own reaction based on school/cadre but what HER school/cadre would so/say/act when confronted with it.

        Well, I believe I can tell you because not only am I an SEM, I have also been placed PRECISELY in the same scenario that HG is proposing to undertake. In that respects and considered this is a numbers game; I may well be unique. So I’m going to share. For now, I’m going to completely ignore the background and focus ONLY on what I felt in that moment and the following days/weeks/months.

        I perceive that he is a GEN. This happened a year ago when I was SA. I knew then I was a SE, SEM would come later.

        Of course I checked up on him. One day, I noted he had posted on SM a new writing. This was a rare event. I began to read the erotica.

        It was good. I got about paragraph in before what I could only describe as a giant iron ball seemed to fall into the pit of my stomach. He was describing an event (that he had not witnessed) that involved some sexy-times with a third-party. Except in this version, he was the third party. I finished it and started to shake. Physically shake. The following events then occurred.

        1 – Shock. Fuck. fuck. FUCKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!
        2 – Doubt. It can’t be me, it can’t be me! Re-reads. Yup it is.
        3 – Shock. Fuck. fuck. FUCKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!
        4 – Arousal – Oh fuck that’s hot.
        5 – Doubt. It can’t be me, it can’t be me! Re-reads. Yup it is.
        6 – Disbelief – He’s posted it to the fucking internet!!!!!????
        7 – Arousal – Oh fuck that’s hot.
        8 – Ego – Do I come out of this well? Yup. [Sigh of relief]
        9 – Shaking subsides
        10 – Intelligence (finally kicks in). Well. That was unexpected!
        11 – Intelligence – Am I identifiable to others? Yes, one other but that’s cool cos he’s the third party.
        12 – Anger – I’m going to do unpleasant things to the fucking cunt who betrayed me – TTP.
        13 – Intelligence – Good idea. What shall we do?
        14 – Empath – Don’t forget about me!!
        15 – Intelligence & Anger – @ Empath Pipe the fuck down, numb nuts! You got us into this whole fucking situation in the first place!!
        16 – Arousal- Oh still hot. I wonder what he will do next?
        17 – Intelligence and Anger – Why the AF am I MORE angry at the Betrayer than the GEN? Ahh that’s right. Because the GEN has more intelligence in his little finger than TTP has in his entire, wretched body. Cool!
        18 – Humility – Wow, I mean so much to someone that I am worthy of being written about?
        19 – Humility – many months on. Yes, I still feel 18 and perhaps the most keenly.

        I predict that it is likely that the SEM SM will go through many of the stages above. But only if she is weaponised and can see it for what it really is.

        Bottom line and TL/DR……………………..

        Being written about in a sexually provocative manner and with clear wit and intelligence is the ultimate turn on for a SEM.

  7. lisk says:

    Mind the Gap!

  8. DebbieWolf says:


    It should be noted that I made plenty of comments about the gymnast with the bad painful knees just to name one.

    You did not like my comments then either.

    You’re entitled not to like them as I am entitled to make them or to have a personal opinion about anything in life.

    I have always wished you well and I say good luck in your new ventures I’ve said this to you in personal correspondence wishing you what I call your version of happiness that I hope it works out for you and that I have wished you good luck.

    I even suggested that you get married again someday and move to America because you have said before that you would consider moving to America.. and how much you like it.

    This has been a desire of yours I thought and so I wished it for you, continued success and growth.. Doesn’t any friend wish that for their friends.

    This is nothing to do with personal opinions about Instagram.

    There is no hypocrisy anywhere as I’ve explained in all of my other comments.

    (Just to let you know that I can see my comments in moderation now so at least that part of the uploading is working now. Albeit slower what and with the thread being long on the Android phone.)

    At least I can see that they are uploading now.

    I wish you continued success in your new ventures as I always have.

    I do hope that the business man I have started to see is keeping things private.
    Perhaps that was also a thought in the back of my mind.

    I did not physically come out and say in my original comment that you did something wrong nor did I infer that you should apologise for of course I didn’t say that…. I did not attack you although you have now attacked me so don’t say there are perceived slights.

    it is in black and white that you have inferred that I have other motives driving me, blatantly said I am passive aggressive when you yourself are at times,
    And then whilst showing hypocrisy in that very act call me a hypocrite.

    It isn’t and it wasn’t the end of the world surely.

    I passed a personal opinion saying that it was not for me if somebody would be announcing I was having sex with him and I wouldn’t have known…. that was the feeling behind it ….it’s irrelevant whether said person agreed to have sex later or not… it isn’t anybody else’s business…if the other person doesn’t know it is being announced…that is all in my original comment… Just a personal opinion of my own.

    Just saying…. and look what it evoked.

    I am far from a hypocrite and you know it.
    I am a gentle kind and decent person.

    That doesn’t make me some soft spongy fuckwit who won’t stand up for themselves which I feel I must address based on the aspersions being cast.

    I have said many times that if people fuck with me I stand up for myself.
    Calling me a passive aggressive and a hypocrite amongst other things was a bridge too far over the river of reasonable.

    And if it is passive aggressive to wonder whether you will in fact print this in your perspective, I can tell you that it is not passive aggressive from my perspective ….based on everything that you have taught in your work.


    It is completely and utterly understandable to suspect that you would find it too critical to post.

    That is in my perspective.
    it is not to cast aspersions on whether you are a weak man who will not post it.
    Of course not.

    Moderation exists…
    by it’s very definition it means some things are posted and some things are not..surely…
    saying that you hope something will be posted and will it be printed is to say I hope it gets through moderation.
    there is nothing unreasonable about it and you are seeing perceived wrongs where there are none.

    I was having a great deal of difficulty loading the whole thread I couldn’t read the replies I couldn’t reply to the replies so you misread that. And then accused me wrongly accordingly.

    In your new dynamic I know that you will work on misunderstandings I know that I do that work on misunderstandings as much as I can.

    Hypercritical was not in any way the intention behind anything…. And I will stand up for myself in telling you so.

    You saw what I wrote as a personal attack calling it hypercritical…. it was to do with my own opinion on what I think of certain things being shared over new girlfriends.

    I have commented plenty about other people you’ve known in the past.. at various stages of the two year period.
    And even if I had not, it does not mean that I cannot have an opinion today.

    It does not make me a hypocrite..

    This isn’t your past and it isn’t your mother who abused you it’s a beautiful new young woman..why would I make any remark in matriarcs favour..

    In the new dynamic.. remember.

    At the end of the day you’re calling it all an experiment …but it is a secret public experiment that from her side of it is unknown.

    That is your business.

    Anybody would have an opinion and everybody does.

    It is the hypocrite who doesn’t voice opinions…it not the person who speaks their truth plainly and openly the way that I did..and it was my truth my opinion it’s what I thought in my own life..I don’t change what I think and believe just because it happened to be you in the frame.

    this is a blog full of varied sentiments varied opinions etc it is not a fan club and a gathering of yes men…and I’m not calling anybody that im saying if that’s what you expect you’ve got the wrong girl here.

    I reiterate there are people who read the blog and haven’t commented yet… New people.

    if they voice an opinion on something they didn’t like are you going to say to them “how come you haven’t piped up before now you hypocrite…you’ve read about everything I’ve done..”

    The inaccurate and unfair part that you have applied to …is I stayed silent?.
    No I didn’t.
    there have been quite a few things where I said I was disgusted and where I didn’t want to read that and it upset me different things about different times.

    I’ve mentioned things in black flag things in red flag I mentioned things I didn’t like articles that I read.

    what are your motives in saying I have never voiced opinions never been disgusted never showed upsetment.

    And why would I show compassion and sympathy for matriarch? you said she abused you terribly it’s hardly the same as a beautiful young woman that’s in love who you’ve met is it? now in the new dynamic why you’re not going to behave in the same way apparently.

    In fact it interests me how you quoted about the books matrinarc and little boy lost…saying in a passive aggressive way “shall I not even bother writing them now…”

    it is interesting that you chose those two particular titles because those were the two particular titles that I asked you “if you are still writing them and when will they be coming out because I was looking forward to them, you were saying afterall that they were coming out in due course for 2 years and I’ve said how much I was looking forward to them and really interested to read them..

    I got quite a roasting over my comments then because you didn’t answer and I had dared to ask why not.

    I appreciate you are busy and don’t get time to answer everything and that is why I asked if the blog would suffer when you couldn’t answer everything. No was the reply.
    how am I to know on any given day whether you can answer the question or not because there are plenty of times when you have banter back and forth with people I’m not a mind reader.

    Interesting how you’re now using those 2 books in some kind of quid-pro-quo saying how you won’t bother writing them..and how you won’t bother sharing things and saying to the readers “what do you think about that then readers.”

    When I said I wouldn’t bother asking questions if this is how it was going to turn out you said that I was cutting my nose off to spite my own face and that I was frankly acting in a childish manner.

    is that not a little bit like you then, now, saying how you won’t bother writing/sharing anything then?

    I suppose you will readily accuse me of trying to get the upper hand and acting superior When I am not… I’m standing up for myself based on what you said.

    I would have thought you of all people could handle debate.. so I trust myself that you do and can and will and have.

    All that was put to bed about the books and everything has been fine and dandy….
    .. I had the audacity or dared to say how I wouldn’t like somebody saying they were having sex with me when I didn’t know about it and posting it on Instagram, that I personally don’t like that kind of thing… Words to that effect.
    It’s no secret that I don’t do social media but I have on occasion dipped in via other methods just to look on a few occasions in my life.

    I’ve made no secret that my personality is a private kind of person and so the sentiments I expressed regarding any sex comments would be indicative of my personality.

    Do you suggest that I should like that kind of thing just because you’re doing it?
    and just because you don’t like that I said so?
    Are you saying that I must alter my own opinions because you don’t agree with them and because you’ve called me all kinds of things like a passive aggressive and a hypocrite and intimated that I have different motives driving me?

    Do I expect to be called a passive-aggressive? do I expect to be called a hypocrite ?
    For having a belief system?

    And you try to discredit my opinion by saying I’ve never mentioned anything before about things that have been said or done with other people is completely off point completely out of sync and not accurate as I have explained above.

    I’m not diminishing myself or my thoughts or opinions.

    I am quite willing at any point to say that my opinion is something I have changed.. if I have changed it… I am quite willing to say I was wrong about something, if I believe I have done something wrong and if that is to be the case but I don’t believe that having a personal opinion about not liking sex with a new girlfriend put on a public forum when she’s unaware of it it is something that I wouldn’t like or is something that if I found out about, there would be a great deal of trouble…

    That is not wrong it is not wrong that I spoke up.. it is not wrong that I have the guts to say so even though you want to shoot me down in flames and discredit me now… Regarding my motives.

    I am reasonable and logical and fair. I have never been known here or anywhere else to claim I am right at all times on anything and I’ve often said here on the blog that you will correct me if I’m wrong…

    And I have come to you many times with lots of questions because I didn’t know the answer.

    I have looked up to you and admired you for being honest here and for sharing, for the support and for the help excetera.

    I am not weak . I do not bend to the wind like a quivering blade of grass.

    I’m sorry you didn’t like my opinion I genuinely am but that’s not my problem it’s yours.

    With the greatest of respect I believe that you overreacted.

    Of course you would not agree.

    I think the only thing left is to agree to disagree.

    This would be the course of action and conclusion that anyone reasonable, logical and fair would arrive at.

    There is no emotional thinking here whatsoever, believe me.

    This blog isn’t your personal life afterall …
    And as you pointed out
    I am a tertiary source and safe to pass my true real and honest opinions here.

    And the opinion that I passed was hardly world war III at the end of the day..

    Hypercritical I would disagree with… Obviously..

    Let’s not go back to GO, though.

    I would hope that all of this would not discourage anyone from offering up any opinion they may have without the fear of being sandblasted in all kinds of ways.

    I would hope that the one place where you yourself could keep control, particularly now with your new dynamic and all that you have learnt, is over a tertiary source that passed a simple personal opinion about Instagram.

    I did say it was great to be seeing all the new and exciting things that you’re doing and make one remark about the sex comment that was all… And all hell breaks loose?

    I’m not even on Instagram.
    But I was able to see it on a link I had.
    I have deleted the link now.

    I still feel that I personally wouldn’t like that if it happened to me… the announcement about sex whether I would have agreed to it or not as I keep saying is absolutely irrelevant….am I expected to say that I would like it just because you don’t like what I said?

    Of course not.

    If I was any less than who I am just because you don’t like what I said then I wouldn’t be me.

    There’s a bit more than a carrier in my cadre.. I don’t go round standing for things.

    HG I have revered you immensely… As you well kow…
    One thing you taught me was to always speak my truth and to speak it once and to leave it there…

    (Ok maybe I’ve sent 5)

    I’m still learning.
    Let’s not fall out over my personal beliefs.
    I don’t fall out with you over yours..


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Fall out? You are a tertiary source. I have corrected your inaccuracies, that is all.

      1. MB says:

        HG and DW, I’ve been reading this exchange between the two of you with a lot of guilt on my heart. I feel responsible since the comment HG made about having sex was in reply to a comment from me on IG. I’m sorry that it happened and I wish it hadn’t morphed into a “thing” as I feel like some kind of instigator.

        DW, I have the same struggle as you do reconciling the HG that can treat Alex the way he did and the HG I know and love. I totally get the utter appreciation and respect vs utter disgust conundrum.

        As for the sharing, I feel fortunate that HG chooses to do so with us. I also hold to the hope that these relationship bulletins are going to us rather than his personal accounts (as would be status quo), as part of the new dynamic. We can watch and be excited for he and The ShieldMaiden without it causing hurt and dismay to his former IPPS(s) that would normally be affected. I may be wrong about that, but that’s what I choose to believe because it makes me feel happy.

    2. K says:

      You need to take a giant step back and get your ET under control.

      Your original comment was peppered with rank hypocrisy and loaded with emotional thinking followed by comments containing passive aggressive and patronizing remarks, deflection and baseless accusations.

      HG isn’t attacking you, on the contrary, he is trying to help you recognize how your ET is clouding your judgement and he is doing so from a position of absolute logic and it is very clear from your rambling and senseless (deflection) comments that your emotional thinking is out of control.

      Remove the emotion and reread everything you wrote followed by HG’s responses and then sit back and reflect on that for a while before you respond.

    3. Contagion says:


      I want to make an observation

      Many here talk about the other person in the dynamic to which has always happent to be a narcissist and never revealing who that person is or notifiing that person they are being spoken about on a public forum, HG is speaking of his perspective in real time with an Empath and it is no different.

    4. K says:

      When you have the chance read the comment mommypino made on this link and focus on the second paragraph.

      HG made this comment about it.

      HG Tudor
      JANUARY 17, 2019 AT 10:42
      Your comment about problems arising from the imposition of our own realities on others is on the money and applies in both directions.

  9. Mary says:

    Oh sure, there are plenty of urges to open up lines of communication again. I feel deflated and empty and have a great deal of the time since going No Contact two years ago. I’ve “missed” my narc twice as long as the relationship even lasted, and he was really just an online fling. Is that normal?

    That said, I don’t crave him the way I used to, it’s more like reminiscing on that feeling I would get when he messaged and the fun we had. I miss feeling so alive! But I know that was only part of the equation and doesn’t come without a price. I’m not willing to pay that price again. Also, there is a lot of satisfaction in knowing I took the upper hand and ghosted his ass and any reaching out to him or being accessible to him would take that away..Surely he’s got some humiliating way to make me pay if any contact resumed. No matter how much ever presence brings him back to mind, no amount of fun is worth that price, so fuck him and his tendrils!

    1. windstorm says:

      I think it’s very normal to mourn your loss far longer than the relationship lasted. I was that way with my Moron in Munich. That was entirely online/phone.

      The thing is, though, that you’re not really mourning the loss of the narcissist and you’re not really mourning the loss of the relationship. You are mourning the loss of the person you THOUGHT he was, the person you wanted him to be. You’re mourning the loss of how you felt when you believed it was actually real.

      In my case, I could see early on that he was a loser and could never meet my needs, but it took almost 3 years for me to come to terms with losing the happiness I thought I had found initially. I so wanted it. I’d never had anyone love me before (other than my grandmother and my children) and I sooo wanted to be loved! I’m still not over my grief because I’m still in the hatred phase. I no longer wish things had worked out between us, but I still can’t think of him without hatred.

      Maybe it would help you if everytime you missed him or longed for him, you reminded yourself that the person you’re really longing for and missing never really existed. He was just a dream – a phantom. He never was a real man. That’s what has helped me.

      1. Mary says:

        Windstorm, so much of what you said here makes sense. “You’re mourning the loss of how you felt when you believed it was actually real.” THIS !!! That’s exactly it, mourning the feeling. That’s all it is and nothing more.

        I’m sorry your Moron led you to believe there was real love there on his side of things and can imagine your hurt when you learned it was an illusion. Makes me want to punch him in the face for taking advantage of your vulnerability and longing for love.

        1. windstorm says:

          Thank you, Mary.

      2. Mercy says:

        Windstorms, I don’t know if I’m having an emotional day or what but your story really hit home for me. I feel hatred too and I have for a long time. I fear I will never get over the anger.

  10. Lou says:

    Oh, I see a lot has happened here in one week.
    A Scandinavian lady, HG ? A Viking, a female warrior… I suppose that suits you.
    If I were her, I wouldn’t like to be called like that though.
    Why Lady L?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Her name begins with L.

      1. Lou says:

        L as in L’Iron Maiden?
        Personally, I think it is going to be very interesting to read how this “experiment” of yours unfolds.

      2. Mona says:

        HG, she will critise you some day and you know that. Did you practise some role games with the Good doctors to minimise the risk of becoming malevolent?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I have been counselled in slowing down my mind and instinctive response to wounding.

        2. K says:

          It is the staleness of the fuel that has me worried, although I am happy for HG, I am apprehensive for the IPPS.

          Stale fuel is a criticism and wounds, which initiates devaluation, and it will be all her fault for letting him down. Ouch!

          1. Lou says:

            I wonder about the same K.
            HG, you have been living in the “high” for such a long time, what makes you think your relationship with Shieldmaiden will suffice? Would you mind sharing about that?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            The fact that this has now arisen when I have a greater awareness, understanding and also the methodologies arising from the prosocial behaviours added to the exceptional nature of The Shieldmaiden.

      3. Lou says:

        Sorry, I realize experiment is not the right word. I meant to say it will be interesting to read about your experience with the Shield Maiden and your intention to have a new dynamic in your romantic life

      4. Tappi Tikarrass says:

        If I were her, I’d love it and take it as a huge compliment!

        Good luck with this new relationship HG.
        If she’s as strong and noble as Lagertha, you’ve struck gold… maybe it won’t last forever but that’s ok, if you can avoid abusing her, even in devaluation, that’s incredible progress.

        Love her nickname, Shieldmaiden.
        I’m happy for you Mr Tudor. Genuinely happy! Xo

        1. Lou says:

          TT, true, Shieldmaiden evokes strength and courage, which is a compliment indeed. However, the first connotation my mind found was war and violence, which I did not find appealing.

      5. Leanne 🌼 says:

        IMHO, ‘Lady L’ sounds better than ‘Shield Maiden’ 💕

        My Nik was Princess Pretty 😛

      6. nunya biz says:

        I have a strong feeling it would be very difficult for me to differentiate a highly aware and intelligent (as opposed to less so) greater from an empath, nor by then would I care.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That amused me.

      7. nunya biz says:

        I wholly agree, K.

      8. nunya biz says:

        “I have a strong feeling it would be very difficult for me to differentiate a highly aware and intelligent (as opposed to less so) greater from an empath, nor by then would I care.”

        “That amused me.”

        Why HG? It must be true though. I guess that is why it amuses you, you’ve said your identity is well concealed.

        1. A very logical, intelligent and focused masculine man makes my neurons light up like no other, so I’m afraid my receptors would be overrun
        2. If you are correctly identifying and responding to her emotions it would look like you are “feeling”, no? And you are genuinely excited, so forget it.

        Anyway, like others are saying, I am wary for her a bit, but I do also really hope that you find something that continues to impress, motivate and satisfy you for as long as can be possible and that you can end in a healthy, respectful way if not. We are all responsible for ourselves and I know my risk/reward leanings would never allow me to pass such joy by in order to save for the future. I am usually more likely to choose “pay later” anyway if I”m honest, beautiful experiences make life wonderful.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          My comment was actually a compliment Nunya Biz and not flippancy, your comment about not caring was both apt and entertaining, so my remark lauded yours.

    2. nunya biz says:

      Oh I see!
      I didn’t read it as flippant, I was just curious : )
      And I find it interesting.

  11. Perfectly imperfect says:

    All you have been very kind please don’t hesitate to reach out

    1. Renarde says:

      Thank you PI!

  12. DebbieWolf says:

    Hg, sorry that my reply seem to be out of sync it’s not me at my end….
    I’m having a lot of difficulty loading the thread… I think it’s because it’s become long and it’s not loading on my phone…
    Thank you for your replies… I have replied but I don’t think they’re aligned near your answers… Just to clarify.. I’m having a great deal of difficulty making/ loading replies too.
    Probably just the server or something.

  13. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear lovely NarcAngel,
    Nearing the end – get outta here !
    My mum is nearly 90 and I bought her a cat 2 years ago (she has 2 now)
    I think 2 parrots would be good for you, male n female – call em “polly” n “crackers” – or if you prefer – Mr n Mrs Bubbles ….. 🐦🐤I really don’t mind either way 🤣
    Luv yas
    Bubbles xx 😘

  14. DebbieWolf says:

    Please disregard my enquiry.


  15. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    The only “bridging the gap” going on with us …is our teeth 😬

    Great advice by the way … it’s always our emotional thinking 💭
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  16. Lori says:

    This is timely because I was explaining to my friend what had been going on with fake profile requests silent calls etc and I said it must not be him because in reality if he wanted to contact me e could it’s not that hard and likely less effort than this covert stuff

    She said “Lori he’s not going to he can’t because then in his mind he “loses” he wants you to reach out to him then he “wins “

    Do you think that’s true and likely the case HG? Are there Narcs that will refuse to overtly Hoover because they perceive it as losing ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Instinctively they will engage in passive hoovers as this lessens the risk of wounding and lessens the risk of any wounding being substantial but can enable a ‘bridgehead’ to be achieved which will lead to more active hoovers occurring, subject as always to the HT and the HEC.

      1. Lori says:

        Thank you. I think this may be the case or this could all be in my mind and he’s gone on his merry way. I just have no way of knowing

    2. NarcAngel says:

      I had the same thought as your friend. He sees himself as the Puppeteer and you the puppet. He pulls YOUR strings (in his mind).

      1. Lori says:

        Narc Angel

        And if I’m honest with myself and everyone that is true. He is the puppeteer though less so now.

        I don’t know if my ET has me reading into the call and the fake friend requests. He may in fact be doing nothing at all and this is all just in my mind because I want it to be. I simply don’t know. He may not be behind all of these instances but odds tell me he is behind at least one of them

        Does it matter ? Oh I suppose not but I think all of us like to think this happens because it gives of a sense that we mattered even though that notion is completely false.

        There will be no contact today …

        1. NarcAngel says:

          You’re doing well on the day to day and things have become clearer for you. Celebrating those days with you.

      2. Lori says:

        Thank you. One day at a time.. that is all I can do.

        Should I fail, I’ll pick myself up and start again but even for those that stumble all of your no contact is not lost. Every day you stay away the grip lessens

  17. DebbieWolf says:


    Well this is very hopeful that you can meet somebody think they are the one and work with the new dynamic.
    But this time it could last or as you put it this time it will last.

    Because other high-functioning narcissists could also become aware and work with the new dynamic perhaps if we introduce them to your work.

    so if they could work with a new dynamic if they are self-aware just like you can, would there really be any need for us to get out stay out?

    If you can make it work with your awareness surely the high-functioning ones that any of us may be involved with can also make it work when they become more aware too?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This is dangerous thinking DW and I considered carefully before making mention of the potential for a new dynamic in my situation, because of the risk of people thinking it gives them hope with their narcissist. I appreciate you do note the applicability to high-functioning narcissists BUT that requires careful distinction also.

      1. The vast majority of narcissists are Lesser or Mid Range. They do not know what they are, never will and never will change. There is no potential for any revised dynamic with those individuals. All readers must take heed of this crucial fact.
      2. A Greater may have potential for a revised dynamic, but generally would not do so – why is that? Because there is no need to do so AND the Greater is unlikely to have embarked on what I have (the interaction with the good doctors and my work on the blog etc).
      3. There is the substantial potential for me since I am an Ultra. This is as a consequence of my heightened awareness (caused by innate ability, the good doctors and my learning/work here)

      In summary therefore, it can work for me. It is impossible for most narcissists and unlikely for Greaters.

      1. shesaw says:

        HG, may I ask, what exactly makes you an ultra?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The extent of my self-awareness, my effectiveness and my malice.

          1. shesaw says:

            Thank you HG. Which of those 3 is decisive for the new dynamic to be succesful? Or maybe better to ask, if I may : How do those 3 work together to make the new dynamic work?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Self awareness.

          3. shesaw says:

            Thank you HG. Can your self awareness+effectiveness dim your malice? Or is that not the goal you aim for?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            It does not dim my malice but it means its manifestation is more controlled.

          5. shesaw says:

            Thank you again HG. I read that as that you are more able to manage your instinctive reaction and chose something less hurtful to others.

            That is really great, HG. I wish you much dedication + the best outcome!

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you.

      2. DebbieWolf says:

        Hi HG

        Urrr….. Yes you’re right it is dangerous thinking… I must admit it did give me a kind of hope…. That for somebody high functioning could embark on some kind of better trajectory with the enlightenment..

        I did feel a surge of hope.
        Thanks for explaining.
        I must admit my attraction for a higher functioning individual such as this business man I know is quite high.
        But it is no good me going from the fat to the fire is it..

        I’m extremely interested in politics as well and used to work with the council.
        I’m thinking on going back into this kind of work and all kinds of things went through my mind.. you will never know who you will meet.
        and it will be over 3 years that I’ve been single so maybe it’s time to start living.

        I had better not get complacent though.
        As I say thanks very much for the reply…

      3. NarcAngel says:

        With regard to your new dynamic…

        While I wish you much success, it is not lost on me that you would be entering this new dynamic with positive thoughts of how your new insights and pro-social behaviours will benefit you. I view it as people projecting hopeful and emotional thinking that it will result in a successful conclusion for your partner. No where have you ever stated (to my knowledge) that this new dynamic will result in their happiness or that that is your concern. You may have learned things and adopted new attitudes, but your intent and what you will do with them remains unknown to us for now. You may have become a more effective machine – just not in the way we expect. I remain optimistically cautious because you have taught me well.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          We shall all have to see what unfolds….

      4. StrongerWendy says:

        Does Shieldmaiden know you are a narcissist?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Already answered.

      5. Joanne says:

        This is such an important clarification. I will admit that once I understood and considered the new dynamic, my ET kicked into overdrive. Not in terms of hope, but more of fear that one day the narc would find “the one” in whom he’d see the worthiness of changing his own behavior. And then I’d feel rejection all over again, knowing that I was not the catalyst of that change. Luckily logic took hold and was able to quell these thoughts. He is not in your league. There is no threat of him ever changing.

  18. DebbieWolf says:



    Beware the Love Devotee trait obscuring the fact that love does not involve abusing someone, leaving them distraught, bewildered, broken etc.”

    Once you begin to manipulate someone in a particular way… Does this then tell you personally that your infatuation has come to an end and that you wasn’t in love like you thought you was that time?

    When you feel the need to manipulate them in a particular way do you completely know its over?
    When you are in an infatuation stage do you not manipulate in any way then??
    Meaning that its the ‘desire to begin manipulating’ that triggers in your own mind that it is the beginning of the end.
    In other words is it just an innate desire to manipulate that overtakes you and shows you you’re not in love but you think it is them doing something wrong and interpret it as though they have let you down?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It does, yes. It does not mean it is over, it is never over until death takes us or you.

      1. DebbieWolf says:

        Thank you HG that was helpful

      2. DebbieWolf says:

        Hg..sorry I keep using the term in love I know you don’t do love it’s about the fuel it was just pure terminology I know you don’t do love is just a way of saying I suppose in infatuation..I possibly could have worded that better leaving out the word love from your side forgive me I’m just a little tired this evening… It’s only when I read it back that I thought what am I talking about I mean infatuation..
        Night night all I think I better have an early night..🤨🙄😴

  19. Cindy says:

    Jolly Good? Is that still a common expression over there in Jolly Old England?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Absolutely my dear, what what?

      1. Cindy says:

        Love that expression too. I’ve never wanted to go anywhere but England, I fell in love with the history and culture when I was very young.
        I knew I was born in the wrong country when my beloved America acquired a narc for President. I’m not ashamed of my country, just ashamed of our leader. Well Luv, I’m going to go cry in my chips and bangers while watching Dr. Who.
        Cheers to you HG for all the good you do. Did I phrase that right?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Pretty accurate, bangers and mash (sausage and mashed potato) would have worked even better.

          Just so you know, many of your presidents have been narcissists and don’t bash your country, the USA is a great place.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Re: Not bashing the U.S because it is a great country.

            It all makes sense now. You spoke of passports and changing countries permanently, also appear to have secured your First Lady. Will you be announcing your candidacy for President of The United States?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            My campaign slogan will be “Born Great, Made Greater”.

          3. MB says:

            Fuckin A!

      2. Lori says:

        I would say a large number of Presidents were Narcs. I don’t know why everyone is so obsessed with this one

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Correct. Previous presidents were more polished in their behaviours thus their narcissism was less obvious. The Donald is ‘in your face’ as he has no awareness being an Upper Lesser.Those who do not know about narcissism interpret this behaviour as either refreshing, purposeful and honest (you support him) or boorish, bullying, unstatesmanlike and unpleasant (you do not hate him). The behaviour lacks any form of façade and consequently it is a major departure from previous presidential narcissists, hence the level of interest.

  20. foolme1time says:

    Your fuel is my love HG! 😘 Oh we have not danced like this in years! 😈

  21. Mona says:

    HG, do you still believe that you can find the “one”, although you know better?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do – there is potential for a new dynamic.

      1. foolme1time says:

        I hope you find the one HG, you deserve to know what true love feels like.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Written like the empath you are FM1T. I know what if feels like, it is fuel.

          1. foolme1time says:

            Really HG! Perhaps I just wrote what you expected me to write?!

      2. Mona says:

        Now I have to ask deeper. Do you think that the dynamic of your next relationship could be different to the ones before or do you think emotionally (narcissistic way) there is a new prospect, who could fit your expectations? (Sorry for the harsh words)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The dynamic has the potential to be different as a consequence of what I have learned and the alterations I have effected in my behaviour.

          1. foolme1time says:

            In your behaviour to understand and take her feelings into consideration HG?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            In part.

          3. foolme1time says:

            So have you told this new love interest what you are then HG?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Already answered that FM1t.

          5. foolme1time says:

            Missed that also? Think I’ll give up on this . Thanks HG

          6. MB says:

            FM1T, no she does not know he is a narcissist.

          7. windstorm says:

            He said a few days ago that he hadn’t told her.

          8. HG Tudor says:


          9. Bekah B says:

            How exactly has your behavior altered, HG? Are you upping your game, when it comes to love bombing? Or perhaps minimizing the devaluation and manipulation tactics?

          10. HG Tudor says:

            I am operating in a more pro-social manner in certain areas of my life. I will be writing about this in more detail, in conjunction with recent developments in my romantic life.

          11. Bekah B says:

            Cool.. Can’t wait to read about it..

          12. MB says:

            HG. What is the reasoning behind operating differently? To minimize chaos in your life? Because you are getting older? Part of the Grand Design? I know from your teaching that the behavior is self-serving in some way.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Because it gives me what I want.

          14. MB says:

            I will just have to be content with that answer. I look forward to reading your new work.

          15. windstorm says:

            I’m really looking forward to reading about how you have become more pro social. Best of luck with this new relationship!

          16. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you WS, I appreciate that.

      3. shesaw says:

        That makes me curious.
        (‘potential for a new dynamic’)

      4. Mona says:

        Thank you, HG, for your fast answers. I did not expect that.

        I wish, that my narc would have the chance of a functioning therapy. I am not interested in him anymore, I am interested in the well-being of the woman (next) , he still abuses and will abuse forever.
        As far as I know, she suffered a lot before in her last relationship.

        I am very thankful for this blog. Not only for your information, but also to see women and some men who suffer a long time because of the end of a relationship (even, when it is a sick one ). I have always been surrounded by people who extremely fast changed their relationships. Now I see, it is not unusual to grieve a long time. I did not know that. I was told it is normal to forget- very fast – and to move on to the next one or to be alone. . I was told to cut the bond to someone from one moment to the other and to be happy again. As if there has been no bond at all.
        I was told, that this way is absolutely normal. And I am not normal, because I grieve about the loss of a relationship. It seemed to be normal to have no bond!!!
        I was told, it is not normal to call someone after the end of a relationship (not for one single time) . I followed this advice normally. I said “Good bye” or someone said “Good bye ” to me and that it was.

        Of course – it was and is very helpful to behave that way in contact or better no contact to a narc. But it was extremely painful in normal relationships! No questions allowed. No answers allowed to someone who wrote me a letter. And I followed that advice!

        I think you know who told me that again and again. And now I know that way of thinking is not normal. Normally there is a bond between two individuals. I was told that that would not be normal.
        I was told, it is normal to have no deep bond to anyone else.

        What an extremely nasty manipulation!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome Mona.

      5. Twilight says:

        If any of your kind can find a new dynamic….you can. I have always believed that and will continue to do so.

      6. DebbieWolf says:


        You have said you believe you can still find the one and there is potential for a new dynamic.

        You have just met somebody and said this time it will last.

        Is this a new dynamic when she does not know who what are?

        If you have said this time it will last about the person you are with is it that you think this one you are with is the one?

        It sounds as though you do by saying this time it will last.

        is the new dynamic then from your perspective only if she does not know what you are?

        I hope you follow me?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is a new dynamic as a consequence of what I have learned and how I will operate.

      7. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        If you need advice and want this to work – I help 🤓
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for your kind offer.

      8. Leanne 🌼 says:

        I shall await the results with anticipation! 🥂 bon voyage 🍾 Here’s to smooth sailing for Lady L 💞 and all the best for you. Xx

      9. Joanne says:

        Can someone explain me what the “new dynamic” is? I missed something and now I’m completely lost.

        1. MB says:

          Joanne, K will be able to find the link (s) if she has the time. Until then, I will explain from what I remember being said. The new dynamic is HGs Shiny new Golden Period with the ShieldMaiden who is a new prospect? Or maybe she’s embedded? Due to his awareness, his therapy with the Good Doctors, and his LOYAL READERS!, he has the desire to be more pro social. He has embarked on an intimate relationship with the declaration that this time it WILL work and he will practice the control of his fury if wounded and not have the desire to hurt and punish her with devaluation.

          Did I get that mostly correct, HG?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You did. Gold star for you.

          2. Joanne says:

            Thank you for the summary, MB. I did notice the uptick in social media activity but was unaware of the endeavor. This is exciting, HG! You willingness to use your awareness and therapy to make positive changes in your life and your behaviors is admirable. I hope that things work out with the Shieldmaiden and if they do not, I hope that you’ll stick by this commitment and end things in an honest, respectful fashion. Looking forward to watching this progress 🙂

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you for your well wishes.

          4. MB says:

            Joanne, With all of my positivity, I have kinda lost sight of the fact that lotsa relationships that DONT involve narcissists end up not working out. That said however, they don’t involve the careful preparation and targeting that was carried out by HG. I have a feeling he didn’t just run into her like in a RomCom! I know it’s a different dynamic, but you wouldn’t forgo that important step would you HG? Leaving it up to fate isn’t your style.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Fate? You can fuck that sky high MB!

          6. MB says:

            I know HG! Willing to share how long the prep work took?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            For what?

          8. MB says:

            Prepping to seduce Shieldmaiden? How long you spent researching.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            Six months. Time very well spent.

          10. MB says:

            Wow! I hope you will tell us about that sometime.

          11. Joanne says:

            True, it could easily not work out for many reasons. Even if the reason is “fuel potency related,” I hope that HG honors the change he set out to make, and ends things with ShieldMaiden properly/respectfully. If he is able to use all these tools in order to do that, it’ll be a success regardless. To be continued…!

          12. MB says:

            Although it is deeply personal and I wouldn’t expect him to share, it sure will be nice if he keeps us updated regardless of if it’s going well or not.

          13. Joanne says:

            I hope so! 💕

        2. K says:

          You are already on the thread where the majority of the comments have been made. There are 422 comments on this thread.

          Use control+F or command+F (mac) and type: new dynamic into the search bar on the upper right and then use the keyword: ShieldMaiden.
          That should make it easier for you to find the relevant comments.

          1. Joanne says:

            Thanks, K. I’ve got it now. Read through all the comments last night. This is big news and exciting that we get to witness it in real time. I’m hopeful for a lasting positive behavior shift 🙂

          2. K says:

            My pleasure Joanne.

        3. K says:

          When you are done with this thread, type: ice cold with Alex in the search function on the upper right and you will find more comments on that thread about the new dynamic.

      10. W says:

        No WAYYYYY
        dude, it’s you that gets bored of her fuel
        How will u not see it as stale eventually?

  22. Virginia says:

    HG, i have spent a few years obsessed with learning about NPD. I feel like an expert now. You have been the #1 best teacher on this NPD topic. Everything you discuss on this subject, I have experienced. I have been with 3 NPD’s. I figured them out within 2-3 months of dating them. I never knew what NPD was until I was with narc #2. After dating for 2-3 months, I started Googling his traits. Bingo. That was back in 2009. I can’t stop researching this disorder. It is so mind boggling, and yet simple when it all boils down to the NPD needing fuel, which creates all of the twists and turns that they put their victims through. I can now sniff out an NPD from miles away. I don’t have to meet them. I just need to listen to the victim, or talk on the phone with one, and I know.

    Thanks for all of the insight and confirmations!


    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome and I am pleased my work has proven of such interest and assistance to you.

    2. Lori says:

      It is a fascinating subject but I’d ask yourself why are you attracting so many. Start focusing on that and my guess you won’t have to deal with them anymore

      It’s not a coincidence that you have had so many

      1. Leanne 🌼 says:


        It’s not always -quite- that easy. I spent 20 years working on myself, and then still attracted them. Perhaps it takes more than understanding, perhaps it takes hands -on guidance, for some of us

  23. Perfectly imperfect says:

    Why is that funny?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I think you meant to state “You wrote about the whole of my life for the last 2 years” but instead you put “you wrote my hole for two years” which has a more, shall we say, crude interpretation which caused my comment of “I beg your pardon”. If English is not your first language, don’t be offended, your comment amused me.

      1. Perfectly imperfect says:

        Sorry no no. The funny comment was towards narcangel ! Not you!! Oh boy

      2. Perfectly imperfect says:

        … English is my first languages however am aweful. I am an artist first 😂

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Perfectly imperfect, English is not my first language either, please don’t feel offended. The missing “w” created a fantastic pun. I was not laughing at you, as I also have typos sometimes; I’ve never seen anyone laughing at other people here. I just found HG’s confusion utterly delightful.

      1. HG Tudor says:


      2. Perfectly imperfect says:

        I get it now I said “hole” lol

  24. DoForLuv says:

    I’ve been thinking about this lately , whenever time seperated passes and the need for answers arises it’s never hard to get “ attention “ “time” “ understanding “ as if “ our relationship “ is above anyone else . Lol I felt so special The one and only with all 4 narcissists I’ve known 2 virtual . Now I can only laugh ! What was I thinking 😆

    While having lunch with the girls and hear their horrible relationships with their narc partners and me getting all the flashbacks about mine made my gap only larger today eventough I woke with so many pleasant reminders . Fuel on the run !

  25. Alma Jazzmin says:

    Mr. Tudor, what about the involvement on a ”common” project or goal (that, of course, only benefits the narcissist) as a way to keep us tied to them and prevent us to (successfully) scape? How common is it for narcissists to use this resource? The narcissist I know -who was incredibly outspoken about his way of reasoning- even told me, back in the day, that it was a way to keep us together. I never though about the long lasting consequences.
    Thanks in advance.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Absolutely. Any and all means will be deployed to bind you and further our needs.

  26. MB says:

    HG, has Kim been cut adrift?

    (I’m asking in Clarece’s absence.) I know she would ask. She’s always curious about Kim. Clarece? Clarece?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. MB says:

        Funny HG! I guess that answers my question, then. She’s braving the emotional sea working on a better boat these days.

      2. K says:

        Oh snap! She has effectively been deleted.

        1. foolme1time says:

          Deleted and already replaced K

          1. K says:

            Ouch! That hurts. Poor Kim!

      3. Lou says:

        Clarece, remember? She used to comment here.

        No point in trying to make you remember Kim, I suppose.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ha ha, my remark was aimed at Kim, naturally.

    2. mommypino says:

      MB, Is the Kim you’re asking his IPPS in the book Fuel? The one after Andrea?

      1. MB says:

        Yes Mommypino, Kim is his most recent Former IPPS. She was after Andrea and was around a long time as best we can tell. He made comment that devaluation can last a long time. If I had to guess, I would say Kim was disengaged from some time ago and HG has been without IPPS since then. Relying on secondary (and tertiary) sources for his fuel needs (as Greaters can do) until a suitable replacement could be found and embedded. New lady L is on the Golden scene now making HG as giddy as a school girl. Hopefully this time it WILL work. None of us are getting any younger!

      2. mommypino says:

        Thank you MB! I saw the IG posts last night with Shield Maiden. I do hope that this works out too. I saw his previous posts talking about new dynamics and applying what he learned. That sounds really promising. I have never heard my narcs acknowledge that they had to learn anything. The therapy and the blog seems to have affected him. I’m optimistic and happy for this.

    3. DebbieWolf says:

      It is a pity this new dynamic couldn’t have been realised with Kim.
      Especially after all this time…. I guess it was just too late.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        With who?

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Or just too inevitable.

        1. DebbieWolf says:


          Yes I think after everything we’ve been taught we would conclude inevitable.

          This new dynamic is a whole other ball park.

          especially being privy to such information like the ins and outs if you’ll pardon the pun.
          Like HG announcing on Instagram that he was going to have sex later that night.

          I’m not sure how that fits into the dynamic but if that was me I’d be pretty angry it’s nobody’s business… that’s personal between him and her.

          it is a lack of respect to say these things when she is unaware …or knowing that people are discussing what’s going on in her private affairs.
          … not that she knows and nobody knows her but it’s nobody’s business that she is having sex it feels like rifling through her handbag you would just wouldn’t do it.

          I know that no harm is meant and HG is simply excited and buzzing…it’s great to know what a great time and all the nice places there’s nothing wrong with that but to mention about the sex I feel it’s an invasion of her privacy because she’s unaware of it and it’s a lack of respect to discuss that.

          So this is where the dynamic isn’t working for me personally.
          I’d want to see much more respect for the maiden.
          Respect to 🛡️maiden.

          It’s just my opinion and I am a little old fashioned about this stuff.

          no harm in knowing the other stuff the nice places the restaurants but not the personal stuff.

          Like I said I’m old fashioned I have a sense of etiquette.
          I’m a fun person I like a bit of banter it’s the fact that she doesn’t know about it and that is a very personal element.

          I don’t want anybody to be offended by this it’s just my personal opinion.
          Trust me I don’t throw cold water over things..I just know man who is really truly being in love and they wouldn’t dream of saying things about whether they were stood at doors and where the people were beckoning and whether they were about to have sex with the person and telling a public forum about it…
          Ok if she knows about it but she doesn’t.

          It’s the breach of personal privacy thatthat doe work for me in this new dynamic …

          after all when you’re really into somebody in such a way at the beginning is there not some reverence of the person?
          I don’t know maybe I am being old-fashioned on it I just think there’s a difference between having fun and banter when everybody is consenting and aware…when you are having a joke about sex mentioning something about somebody when they don’t know about it in this particular way.

          I hope all this comes out ok I’m having a hell of a time trying to sort comments tonight.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Just so you know because once again you are incorrect, the Shield Maiden had already stated her desire to have sex to me, so me announcing it as such was hardly a revelation and nobody knows (or will know) the Shield Maiden’s identity.

            I do not recall you expressing such concerns about all the other people from MatriNarc through to Karen, my father, my siblings, to Kim, to Sophie when I have talked about my dynamic with them. Have any of them consented to be written about? No – but since their identities are protected and nobody will work out who they are, there is no issue. The insights I give into my personal life are both informative and many readers positively love that side of my disclosures – they can receive this with no downside to the subject of the writing.

            Maybe I won’t reveal or discuss anything to do with my personal life anymore. Thus nothing more on MatriNarc (so that book can go on hold), Little Boy Lost (that book can go on hold), The Asylum of the Grotesque (that can go on hold too), no articles involving my family, the good doctors, my therapy, previous or current relationships, nothing with regard to friends. How does that sound readers?

            You cannot suddenly decide to admonish one comment I made when there is a mass of material on this blog about my personal life (which people do want to know about for many different reasons) when you have stayed silent before. Nobody I write about can be identified from what I write about, they are protected in that regard and therefore your observation lacks credibility and is ultimately hypocritical.

          2. 2SF says:

            I agree with what you say HG, please feel free and continue to say whatever it is you want to say. We learn from it.
            The pictures on Instagram are too risky. Had I lived in Norway, in that city you are, I could have easily indentified you and her. You can google restaurant interiors (in google pictures) and come across the same interior. Had I gone to that restaurant and notice a blonde woman in red I could have figured it out. There are all kinds of ways to find out who you are once you take too much risk. Don’t do the personal pictures. Just saying xx

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I understand your concern as an empathic individual but there is not a chance that anybody would have identified either of us. One could not discern the interior of the restaurant where the Shield Maiden was wearing red because I did not show the interior of that restaurant, so there was nothing that could be identified.

            If someone managed to identify the interior of the restaurant we attended last night (unlikely as that it is) they would not have found us there as we had moved elsewhere by the time the pictures were posted. Furthermore, the chances of someone identifying the restaurant, actually being proximate to that restaurant and having the inclination to come and try and find us are non-existent.

            I have a spent a lifetime ensuring I am never identified (and I do not mean in relation to this blog) so whilst I recognise you state this purely from the position of concern, do not be. I am not a stupid man.

          4. MB says:

            “I am not a stupid man.” Well that’s the understatement of the century!

          5. 2SF says:

            I know you’re not stupid. I was concerned your pink glasses would trouble your logic thinking. My stupid emotional thinking that is.
            There are no pink glasses and even if they are there you’re logic would still prevail. You’re probably not even in Norway but in Finland 🙂

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Michigan actually. Just as cold as Scandinavia.

          7. 2SF says:

            You can’t be trusted. You could as well be in the bed & breakfast around the corner from where I live. But I guess it’s 5* hotels when in the golden period. Once you show up in the B&B I’ll know the devaluation has started 🙂

          8. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha! Yes, Michigan probably is as cold as Scandinavia. My narc Wiccan friend is from there and I’ve listened to her bitch about the cold and snow for 40 years!

          9. 2SF says:

            And to come to Debbie’s defence, I don’t think she is hypocritical. It’s true concern I think that someone may find out who this woman is, because of the risky pictures. As empaths we put ourself in her shoes, because this is happening now. Your mother we don’t identify with, with your exes that’s different because it’s in the past. This woman is us, that’s how it feels in a certain way. Don’t get mad at Debbie, she means well. We love you, don’t feel attacked. xx

          10. HG Tudor says:

            I am not getting mad, I am correcting the inaccuracy. Nor do I feel attacked.
            You must understand that when I correct people it is because they are wrong, it is not because I feel attacked or because I have ‘got mad’ – I am above such matters here.

            It is hypocritical. Where was the concern for MatriNarc, for the good doctors, for Kim, for Sophie, for Karen, for Rachel, for Lennox, for my colleagues and friends? Where were the comments about them? They were none.

            Kim was not in the past. My siblings and father are not in the past. The Good Doctors are not in the past.

            Debbie’s reaction is driven by something else because if it were not, logic would enable her to see the lack of credibility and hypocrisy in what has been written.

          11. MB says:

            Kim who?

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Precisely. Well done! I thought you had gone back to sleep?!

          13. MB says:

            Me too. Am I dreaming?

          14. 2SF says:

            MB, it’s a nightmare.. he is cheating on you. It’s not fair, I feel for you xx

          15. MB says:

            Good one 2SF! But HG isn’t mine. He belongs to all of us!
            I threw my hat in the ring. I was defeated by a more worthy opponent. (This time ha ha).

            In all seriousness, I am an outrageous flirt but I don’t desire to be anybody’s IPPS. I am envious of the Golden Period but nothing else obviously. Nobody leaves without paying and one of us wouldn’t survive the repaying of my debt.

          16. 2SF says:

            MB (3rd time trying to reply…)

            I know MB! (kiss-smiley)

          17. 2SF says:

            Ha ha ha… good one MB!

          18. 2SF says:

            HG, that’s probably the difference between logical and emotional thinking. Not hypocracy, it has to do with feelings. We can not think the way you think and vice versa.

          19. HG Tudor says:

            The ET creates the hypocrisy.

          20. 2SF says:

            I had to think about that, yeah.. I guess it does. But you know what? What if you leave feelings out and use logic only. Would that make a better world?
            This is my problem in philisophy class as well. You can’t just listen to words, you need to have the emotion with it, the facial expressions, the body language, the gut feeling and all. It’s very frustrating.

          21. DebbieWolf says:


            You are wrong about what is driving me.
            Nothing is driving me.
            hypocrisy is when you criticize something you’ve already said or you are doing something yourself and then criticizing it in others.

            just because I did not comment on anything else as you say although I did comments throughout the 2 years..just because a person doesn’t raise a point on one occasion does not make them a hypocrite when there is a point later.

            Furthermore I never saw photographs of anybody else and I’ve always felt a great deal of compassion for Kim and for other people who had written about such as Karan comments I have made before.

            Your response is illogical and inaccurate.

            you say you are correcting my inaccuracies I have made no inaccurate comments I passed a personal opinion about sex and new girlfriends.

            I’ve asked questions and passed opinions about other people you have written about in the whole of the two years but just because I haven’t asked the exact same thing or passed an opinion about this exact same thing does not mean I’m a hypocrite or inaccurate for my opinion on one issue.

            You have missed the point completely misjudged myself and now try to cast aspersions about my motives.

            Please remain calm.
            There is no need for concern.

          22. DebbieWolf says:


            Thank you. Agreed.

            As I said at the time it was just a personal opinion.
            an opinion is something that is personal and it has an opinion if somebody does not agree with the opinion that i no big problem in the world.

            I should not have to change a personal opinion just because somebody doesn’t agree with it.

            We live in a democracy not in a fascist state.

            I can hardly understand why my personal opinion would have drawn such a strong response.

            And to cite the rest of the work and include it as to why I’ve remained silent about it I find to be irrelevant and missing the point of a very simple personal opinion.

            I hope my replies are printed if not.
            Well, what can I say?

          23. HG Tudor says:

            They are ‘printed’ and anybody who writes ‘will they be posted’ or ‘bet you won’t post this’ is acting in a passive aggressive manner.

          24. DebbieWolf says:


            Not in this case.
            I am having issues loading and uploading as I stated yesterday in other posts.
            I am sending comments and they are not being printed as they are not loading when I think they are.

            I often have to send duplicates when a thread becomes very long and so I end up hoping that they will be printed that they will get through because sometimes they showing moderation and sometimes they don’t even show there.

            I have a track record of sending multiple duplicates at times due to problems.

          25. DebbieWolf says:


            Not in this case.
            I am having issues loading and uploading as I stated yesterday in other posts.
            I am sending comments and they are not being printed as they are not loading when I think they are.

            I often have to send duplicates when a thread becomes very long and so I end up hoping that they will be printed that they will get through because sometimes they show in moderation and sometimes they don’t even show there.

            I have a track record of sendi7ng multiple duplicates at times due to problems.

          26. 2SF says:

            Debbie, let it go. It was your opinion and you are totally entitled to have your own opinion. Your initial comment contained criticism to HG. Even though he says he is above all emotions etc.. he is not, he is still a human being and a narcissist. That’s why he responds the way he does.
            Everyone forgets about it tomorrow, so don’t let this keep your mind busy. And I know WordPress sucks, it’s very annoying to not be able to upload, try again and again, than have to wait for moderation etc.. when you want your comment to be read, so you get your message through.
            Let it go now, we all understand what you were saying. Don’t let it upset you Debbie Do something fun today to get your mind off this issue. xx

          27. DebbieWolf says:


            Thank you. Agreed.

            As I said at the time it was just a personal opinion.
            an opinion is something that is personal and it is an opinion… if somebody does not agree with the opinion that is no big problem in the world.

            I should not have to chan7ge a personal opinion just because somebody doesn’t agree with it.

            We live in a democracy not in a fascist state.

            I can hardly understand why my personal opinion would have drawn such a strong response.

            And to cite the rest of the work and include it as to why I’ve remained silent about it, I find to be irrelevant and missing the point of a very simple personal opinion about sex and new current girlfriends on a public forum.

            After all the future is not yet written.
            What if it is decided to tell her about identity.
            it is fair warning that should she find out and still be a current girlfriend it would be a betrayal.

            The past is the past with the others who are anonymous. After all it is one person’s word against another as to why something broke up so what one person says about another in that circumstances fair game.

            but with the possible hopeful future outcome of this one and she was to find out the comments were made in a public forum that she was about to have sex is different and has no bearing whatsoever on any past work…. Again it is and was just a personal opinion.
            Nothing more.

            there is nothing correct or incorrect about what I have just said or what I said before it is a personal opinion and we are encouraged to go for it we are encouraged to fire in and pass our opinions.

          28. MB says:

            HG, no!!!! Please continue to write about your life and times. I love hearing all about it and am looking forward to more. Little Boy Lost, The Creature. And Matrinarc. Don’t make me have to shuffle off this mortal coil having never read them! Your opening up in such a way sharing with the readers your budding relationship is priceless, not to mention fun and exciting. Going along for the ride with you as a fly on the wall opens up a whole new dimension of learning for us. Forget the blog, I’m ready to graduate to a vlog!

          29. HG Tudor says:

            I shall continue to share.

          30. MB says:

            Thank you for the reassurance HG! I shall settle down. I’m having fun right along with you. So, where are we going tonight?

          31. HG Tudor says:

            I shall be dining out tonight MB, what are your plans?

          32. MB says:

            I haven’t made any yet. Maybe I’ll dine out as well. Enjoy! Hopefully there are pictures!

          33. HG Tudor says:

            Keep your eyes peeled!

          34. MB says:

            You know I will!

          35. MB says:

            You know I said “we” because of your sharing and getting to go along. We all get to now if you choose to share and we choose to look. Just to clarify. I’m a DE but MB doesn’t stand for “marriage breaker”.

          36. MB says:

            You know HG, once you get back home, consider chopping some vegetables and cooking for her. She would enjoy that.

          37. NarcAngel says:

            Not if she doesn’t live where he does. I find vegetables over Skype lose their flavour.

          38. MB says:

            NA, I have to believe he will bring her back or else stay there. That is some premium, plus, plus fuel and as we have been taught, nothing else matters! He could learn Norwegian. He’s “not a stupid man” ha ha. I only said that about the vegetables because he said that in an old thread and I remember it being quite entertaining.

          39. DebbieWolf says:


            I passed what I stated to be a personal opinion about sex and new girlfriends.
            a personal opinion is neither correct nor is it incorrect because it is a personal opinion as I pointed out numerous times.

            your information in your various books that haven’t appeared such as matrinarc and c little boy lost are not along the same lines are they.. and they don’t have anything to do with a general opinion I have about sex and new girlfriends.

            It is too broad brush for you to perceive my comment about sex and new girlfriend and apply it to the whole of your work.

            at the end of the day stating you will not write any more in the way that you did is passive aggressive, something you accused me of personally when I simply passed an opinion once before and asked a question.

            The comment I made regarding sex was a personal opinion only and cannot be incorrect or correct.

            I apologise if your own emotional thinking was high and seeing my personal opinion as hypercritical.

            I passed a general personal opinion about sex and it has no bearing whatsoever on the rest of your work.

            You say you like to correct inaccuracies then what is your sweeping comment got to do with it saying that perhaps you will not write any more things and referring it all to your readers?

            I passed a personal opinion in response to somebody else.
            Nothing more.
            There is no need for concern.

          40. HG Tudor says:

            I am not concerned. Your opinion, which of course you are entitled to articulate, was ill-founded because I was pointing out that your comment was hypocritical since you expressed no such concerns about anybody else that I have written about.

            I also note that you have failed to address this factual observation and instead you have hidden behind ‘opinion’ and suggesting my own emotional thinking was high.

            1. If you express an opinion, then be consistent. I shall ask again – why did you not express this opinion with regard to other people from my personal life, why select this one person?
            2. My emotional thinking was not high.
            3. Why apologise for something I have done (albeit I had not done that particular thing) you are not responsible for me?

            My ‘sweeping comment’ was an extension of your proposition. You advocated I ought not to have made the ‘sex’ comment, thus by extension I asked should I then not mention anything at all about my personal life? Help me here, why should I note make reference to having sex with the Shieldmaiden but continue to talk about every other element of my personal life. So, should I not mention any personal items thus adopt a consistent blanket ban in accordance with your prescriptive comment OR should I mention some parts of my private life but not others and if you choose the latter do explain to me the basis on which some items can be mentioned from my personal life and not others.

          41. DebbieWolf says:


            I will say this one more time.

            It is not a prescriptive anything.
            I made a personal opinion about current girlfriends and mentioning sex in a public forum showing somewhat of a picture when they were unaware of it.

            This time it will last remember.
            What if she finds out?
            Presumably after you tell her.
            Nobody is saying she didn’t consent to sex nobody is saying that at all.

            It has nothing to do with what I said.
            has she consented to have whether she has had sex or not being put on a public blog was my original opinion.

            It was a personal opinion that I passed as encouraged to do so on this blog… and we are also encouraged not to apologise for our own opinions.

            It is not a matter for contention nor is it a matter to put me in the spotlight for comments made about my motives or anything else calling me passive-aggressive etc when it is you that is being passive-aggressive asking the readers whether or not you should stop writing and mentioning anybody else in your work is a complete overreaction

            You have reacted so incredibly strongly to my personal opinion that I had passed to somebody else… And not even in a horrible manner in a way that stated and number of times throughout the paragraph that it was just a personal opinion on that was all.

            Please desist from saying I have never had opinions on any of the other girlfriends or people.

            It is simply untrue.
            These are the facts and I have stated them.

            why have I suddenly become public enemy number one for having a simple opinion about a picture and the declaration about having sex with me unawares person .
            Unaware as in that it is been declared.

            It has absolutely nothing to do with hiphoprisy at all
            I am allowed in life to pass an opinion at any stage of life and just because that opinion was not passed before does not make me a hypocrite.

            You are misusing the term.

            lots of people just read and never comment what happens if they comment for the first time does it make them a hypocrite because they have never commented before but read silently until they felt that they could comment?


            as an empath I have had a great deal of compassion for Karen for Kim for Leslie for all of the different people but I have read in template about all of the different reasoning that you had the saying how they had let you down.

            I wasn’t there and I do not know so why would I defend anybody or jump to their defence but yes still remained compassionate to them.

            Shieldmaiden is someone knew she has done nothing.

            This is something that I also don’t know about and is none of my business I simply pass the comments about a girl in love having half of her picture I a and having it announced without her knowledge that she was about to be having sex it’s just a personal opinion of mine.

            it is not a personal attack on you it is not me being passive-aggressive it is not .. me having I should say anything else driving me nor is it me being a hypocrite of any kind lacking in compassion for any previous victims.

            Come on HG let’s get accurate and let’s be sensible.
            Will you please calm down.

          42. HG Tudor says:

            1. I am entirely calm. Point out where I have responded using any emotive language. I have not.
            2. To state I have reacted “incredibly strongly” – identify where I have used any language which accords with ‘incredibly strongly’. If I wrote “you are a fucking idiot because you do not understand what I have written, you are a moron because you cannot grasp a simple extrapolated observation.” THAT is an incredibly strong reaction. Re-read what I have written and you will find it is to the point, factual and avoids any emotive language. That is NOT an incredibly strong reaction – you read it as that (incorrectly) because I have corrected you.
            3. It is hypocritical to state nothing about other individuals in my personal life and then suddenly do so about once recently. Again, if you understood what I have written I stated you can express an opinion but it is not well-founded because it is inconsistent and you have not addressed this inconsistency in any credible way.

            Your responses are emotive. My are not. I have made my point, it is clear and evident and you are unable to grasp it. Fair enough, but I am not wasting further time expanding on it.

          43. DebbieWolf says:


            What the bloody blue blazes are you talking about?

            Nobody has asked you to apologise for anything.

            I said I don’t have to apologise for my opinion is what I said which was as I have pointed out 16 times my own personal opinion.

            Responsible for you?

            I wrote a short paragraph in response to NarcAngel where I passed a personal opinion about how I wouldn’t like it if somebody had mentioned on a public forum that I was about to have sex and if I didn’t know about it and he was my new boyfriend.

            you have then turned it into me having other motives turned it into me being a hypocrite turned it into me being passive-aggressive turned it into me saying that you should apologise when I did not say anything or infer anything of the kind.. turned it into me having to answer questions about allsorts as to my supposed and alleged lack of compassion for anybody else you have written about.

            This really is most unfortunate.. and on the blog as well…. Where you encourage opinion.

          44. HG Tudor says:

            Re-read your comment, you fail to understand. You wrote :-
            “I apologise if your own emotional thinking was high and seeing my personal opinion as hypercritical.”

            1. When you wrote, “Nobody has asked you to apologise for anything.” you have misunderstood (again). I did not write that you have asked me to apologise. You wrote “I apologise if your own emotional thinking was high”

            2. I then queried why on earth you are apologising for something relating to me when
            a. My emotional thinking was not high (so you are wrong again); and
            b. Even IF my emoitonal thinking was high (which it was not) why would you apologise for it? That is patronising.

            Carefully re- read what you wrote, then what I wrote and you will see you have misunderstood.

            Accordingly, your comment above is incorrect.
            Yet again, you have completely failed to understand the point, you have failed to answer the question I asked of you and instead gone off on some tangential jaunt based on a misunderstanding.

            I have made my points. You are unable to understand them. I am not wasting any further time explaining.

      3. mommypino says:

        DebbieWolf it makes me sad too. Especially after seeing a statue on his IG this morning. I want to send hugs to her. But it’s probably a blessing in disguise for her and she can find the perfect match for her. It’s better to disengage than prolong the agony. And hopefully Shield Maiden will not suffer the same fate. 🤞🙏

      4. Lori says:

        Mistake # 1 : Assuming a Narc has ET. He doesn’t.

      5. Renarde says:

        I have been following this sub-thread today. The identity of this mysterious ‘Shield Maiden’ has quite piqued my interest.

        I could come back and furnish the thread with my own real life examples. I have numerous because like HG, I am also a writer. I don’t think that I will as it’s not necessary. What is necessary to do however is to be clear on the ethics of what HG might do in future.

        Being honest, I don’t think he’s doing anything wrong. Having sat on more than a few occasions with stuff being posted to the internet; it depends on consent. To publish stuff which clearly identifies a person is wrong. To publish stuff which is your own thoughts/ideas and reflections is fair game as long as it’s not clear about whom is the subject of your writing. Is he doing ‘wrong’ by saying explicitly, he is going to have sex with the Shield Maiden – no – I don’t think he is.

        Now, whether or not she finds out about it in future is a moot point. Was she identifiable? How much detail? Does she come out of this ‘white’ or ‘black’? I’ve experienced all sides and all shades myself. However, HG has made an explicit point; she is a Magnet, Super Empath. Funnily enough, these are areas I know something about.

        If she were to find herself the subject of largely positive writings about her, based on my own experiences, she will find it:

        1 – Enormously flattering to her ego
        2 – Sexually arousing
        3 – Wondering what will happen next

        Further to this and because of the nature of SEM people, she will also reciprocate in kind. How could she not?

        Worry not about the Shield Maiden SEM, worry about those that have paved the way to this Enlightenment.

        1. MB says:

          I am serious when I say this ladies. (I’m not being flirty. HG is taken and I respect that.) But…if later down the road things don’t work out and y’all happen to see me on Insta dining with HG and he says he’s having sex with me later, I want y’all to be HAPPY for me cause I know I will be!

          1. Renarde says:

            You made me giggle MB! I’d be the same. I’d also add the proviso ‘If you hear me screaming do not and I repeat DO NOT come and rescue me!’

            Im also giggling because IF I was a GEN, I’d know EXACTLY what buttons to press.

            But im not, so you’re good 😁

          2. MB says:

            Renarde, I’m glad you took it that way! Lighthearted. I am here as I am in my own life. When things get tense, MBs got jokes. I HATE conflict!

          3. Lou says:

            Noted MB.
            I’ll be happy for you.

      6. mommypino says:

        HG, I apologize if my response to Debbie regarding your ex sounded negative. I think it is normal for most women to feel bad for your recent ex. But like what I said in my other posts, I am optimistic about your new relationship because you are different from who you were in your previous relationships.

      7. Lori says:

        Ok I’m reading this thread again having a WTF ?moment.

        Who in the Hell does anyone think they are to lecture someone on their own blog about what they do or don’t do in their private life. I saw those pictures and there is no way anyone could identify that woman.

        Next “it’s a lack of respect to announce without her knowledge “ what ? ??? Look at the shit discussed on here by so called Empaths. Is It ok to do to the Narc cause he’s a Narc? Oh the hypocrisy. I mean intimate deals about our Narcs behaviors are shared here. Far more than what was on that Instagram and you are gonna start lecturing him on respecting privacy? Good Lord.

        I swear everyday I’m starting to think I’m more of a Narc than an Empath because each day I see more of his perspective and I’ll read something here written by an alleged Empath and think WTF ??? And feel zero Empathy

        I’ve see a huge sense of entitlement by some here thinking they are entitled to correct and lecture another on there own page. A page which they have come to seek help from and then they are gonna “educate” him from some perceived moral high ground.

        I do not know how this guy keeps from telling a lot of us to Fuck off. Seriously

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Brilliant. I should add that when my collection of erotica is released, many people will read that and it will be based (albeit not identifying anybody) on my personal experiences and I am prepared to write and publish that as a consequence of the new dynamic I am experiencing. The Shieldmaiden is good for me. Thank you for your valid observations, Lori.

        2. Joanne says:

          Maybe he gets negative fuel from it? 😉

      8. Lori says:


        It is very clear to me that some of the these folks have some serious boundary issues.

        Some of these people are so completely out of line here but think they are entitled to do so in the name of “good” . They think it’s entirely ok to step into your way private life and appoint themselves Judge and Jury. What I have read here is absolutely horrendous.

        Furthermore that kind of behavior from “Empaths” is completely Codependent in nature and clearly demonstrates a lack of respect of boundaries

        Oh the hypocrisy! I still can’t get my mind around people who have shared all kinds of intimate details about their Narc some making their Narc quite identifiable and the want to me lecture you on your morality? Give me an f ing break.

        So let me see someone comes here desperately looking for help and they start lecturing the one providing the information. God this was all so out of line. Between this and the people emailing you demanding answers, there are some people on here with some issues and Narc they don’t know is the least of their problems.

        To whomever participated in this: you are way out of line! I don’t care if it wax allegedly out of concern for a victim. One you don’t know I might add. Does that seem normal ? Umm not to me. Use this as opportunity to observe your boundary issues cause believe me they are there.

        I’m sure this will land me plenty criticism but only cause I’ve struck a nerve.

        It was way out of line by any objective standards

  27. Michelle B says:

    Bekah B

    As the narcissist ages, they become further detached from the true self.
    If you could not have “healed him” his new IPPS has even less chance.

    It is the opposite way round for co-dependants which is why overcoming co-copedency is more successful.

    1. Bekah B says:

      Thanks for your reply, Michelle.. It is interesting and very insightful of you to note this.. Me and my narcissist are relatively young, (he is 30 and I am 28).. But I met him in high school at the tender age of 15.. I saw how he was then and watched him transform into what he is today.. For the last few years that we have been in this narcissistic engagement, I have preached to him about getting back to his true self and healing his pain the right way, because all he is doing is causing a bus load of pain within people along the way.. I believed that to be what set me aside from other sources that he dealt with–he had just met them, but had known me for yeeaarrss and I knew him before he became a full blown narcissist.. I guess it is reassuring to think that perhaps this new source will not be able to have the insight like I have and put forth the effort I did to try and be patient, be tenacious, and hold his hand along his journey of recovery.. But as you said, it didn’t happen with me and the more time that passes by, it is never going to happen, at all.. I do believe he will eventually get married though.. He’s the sort of one that just has to be with somebody.. I’ve never known of him to just be alone..

      1. NarcAngel says:

        You believe he was not a narcissist but became one during the time you knew him?

        1. Bekah B says:

          Fundamentally we know that narcissists evolve at some point in time during their young childhood.. So I believe he has been inclined to manipulative and sly behavior, even as a child, such as HG and his desire to have all of the cookies in the cookie jar.. But in a clinical sense, yes, I believe I met him and was friends with him in class before he was old enough to be clinically diagnosed as having narcissistic personality disorder.. I believe he went through at least three emotional traumatic experiences, that I know of, since I’ve known him that propelled him in the direction of this full blown disorder..

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Thank you for your explanation.

          2. Bekah B says:

            No problem, NarcAngel..

    2. Bekah B says:

      Also, in reference to your mention of co-dependency… I do believe at one point in time me and my narc had that type of relationship.. Due to my counseling sessions over the course of 2018 and diligent practice in the skill of mindfulness, I was able to regress from being so dependent upon him in our relationship.. I even branched out and tried to date other men.. (narc RUINED that with a phone call to the guy).. But, it seems the journey to healing and overcoming co-dependency is long, hard, and a lonely.. Some days I just don’t know if I can do it.. I just want the pain to stop..

      1. Michelle B says:

        Keep everything private, block him on all social media. He does not need to know if your seeing someone new- it’s non of his business. The relationship is over. You can do as you please. Let him think he is “winning” tell him nothing. He would only find out through the children but that is going to be quite sometime before you introduce new partner and by that time the new man won’t be scared away easily by ex narc as he will be too involved with you.

        Yes it is not easy to overcome co-dependency, it is a lot of work, and something you will need to work on daily but each day will get easier. The hardest part will be resisting the hoovers but HG has some great books on that.

        1. Bekah B says:

          Yes, Michelle, you are right.. I’ve actually deactivated two of my social media accounts and everything else that remains is indeed private and dormant.. I’m definitely not seeing anyone now and actually have no desire to in the future.. This relationship has devastated me so much, I just don’t know if I can take a chance with anybody because my trust is messed up.. Not only that, but I know I am not healthy and could potentially bring toxic behavior into a relationship as a defense mechanism.. Because when being in a dynamic such as this one for an extended period of time as I have, you learn certain tactics in order to survive.. And I really hate that it happened that way for me.. I wish I could go back to being fully innocent and unaware of this disorder and all the behavior it facilitates..

          And again, you are right about the hoovers.. Very hard to ignore and not fall for.. I did recently fail at resisting one shortly before Christmas, but since then, I have distanced myself, no longer responding to his late night text messages asking if I am awake, or his phone calls.. I’ve even reminded him of what he sent me when I first found out and told him I was pregnant.. I expressed to him I should have listened and accepted what he said to me then, instead of giving him a chance to take it back and make amends.. So I think I’m okay, at least for a little while, because there is no way he can fight or disprove the things he said to me in that message.. They were horrid, very hurtful things he said about me as a female, this not even being his child, and how I don’t know how to move on from him so I try to come up with anything that’s pointless and pathetic.. This time, I just can’t let him take those words back.. I want him to know that I am accepting them and applying them everyday by truly letting go..

    3. Lori says:

      What is the opposite for Codependents? Even though I thoroughly understand Codependency and went to therapy, I remain Codependent perhaps not quite as bad but I most certainly still have it

  28. Bekah B says:

    Speaking of unanswered questions, does anybody ever wonder if the narcissist’s new primary source will be the one to make him happy, healed, and “whole”? I find myself struggling with that idea.. Like, maybe she is the one this time.. And he will never come back to me..

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This is a common concern. The IPPS will always be devalued and will never heal the narcissist or make him or her happy. Your fears are driven by emotional thinking.

      1. Bekah B says:

        Very true.. I have moved 100 steps backward in my journey to fight my emotions with logic when it comes to him for these past few years.. And now it has been led to another pregnancy and callous discard.. Honestly, I won’t reply to his hoover attempts now only because of emotion.. I am just hurt, 110%.. Sort of how you describe a broken appliance that has sustained multiple abuses and therefore is now not functioning..

      2. DebbieWolf says:

        I am sorry but I don’t understand.

        If new dynamics can work for one person they can work for another once they become more aware.
        Then surely she won’t be devalued?

        How is that emotional thinking? surely it’s only a logical conclusion.

        As the saying goes ‘what one man can do another can do’… Applying that theory.

      3. Kellie Mccoey says:

        My concern is not with healing him. I know what he is and what he does. I want my fix! Insert me stomping my foot😁

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Kellie M
          So you’re saying you hate what he is and what he does but your vagina doesn’t.

      4. Lori says:


        What he is saying is that it’s extremely rare not impossible but rare. It’s well documented that a Narcissist can be cured but won’t. The problem is they do not stay in therapy. HG has stayed in therapy which is quite rare. I do know this because my first Narc went to therapy and gained some awareness but guess what he quit going.

        I honestly hope HG is cured and I have commented many times that I have seen a shift in his writings. It’s an uphill battle for but not entirely impossible with lengthy professional intervention but it would be irresponsible to represent that this is possible for narcissist because the failure rate is extremely high so high that it is referred to as incurable

    2. Anm says:

      I used to feel that way with my narcissist exes. My most recent ex would even tell me when he was discarding me that he wanted to find someone else to marry. He did move on to someone else, a beautiful, tall, blonde model looking woman. He is too miserable in life to be happy with her and ever get married. He stopped trying to make me jealous when he realized I am not interested. None of my narcissist exes moved on to fruitful relationships.

      1. Anm says:

        Bekah, trust that they suck

      2. Bekah B says:

        Anm, thanks for your reply.. My mind tells me that my narcissist, too, is really miserable in life and that he won’t be happy, but I guess it’s just hard to believe when I know the girl he’s with now.. She’s really nice and caring, has a good career, and likes to travel.. He’s already feeding off of her lifestyle of traveling, without a care in the world about what he has left behind here (which is a 2 yr old daughter and another child on the way).. I don’t think she knows I’m pregnant, but I don’t have the energy to broadcast this news to her or anyone else.. He has completely smeared my name and brainwashed everybody into not talking to me anymore.. I wish I could reach your level of disinterest, but narc and I have serious unfinished business and physically, I am in a perpetual state of emotion, rather than logic..

        1. Anm says:

          I understand where you are at. I have been there. One thing I have learned, while the narcissist is away with his new supply, this is the time to love your children dearly, and create as many good memories with them as you can. Having a child with a narcissist, is extremely difficult. Being pregnant by one, just doesnt seem fair. Use this time to be a source of love for your unborn baby, as much as you possibly can.

      3. Bekah B says:

        Thank you, Anm.. I will do just that.. Currently, our daughter is 2 and a half, so she’s growing out of the “terrible 2” stage and really starting to talk now.. I show her love, compassion, and empathy, to the point where I even cough or express any kind of discomfort, she asks if I am okay and offers a hug.. It is imperative to me that my children know true love, caring, and compassion.. I don’t want them to be influenced by the potential damage their father may cause, if he ever decides to come back around..

        1. Anm says:

          He will more than likely come around “after the egg has hatched” like this article says. If he truly is a narcissist, breast feed your baby of you can for a year after birth. Usually the courts, and sometimes narcissist won’t want to deal with babies that are breast fed.

          1. Bekah B says:

            Really? That is interesting to note.. But I do plan to breast feed my baby, just as I did our daughter when she was born in 2016..

            Is it foolish of me to not even want to press anything on him in court? Not child support or anything, even though I know I will need the financial help.. I just want this to be over to the point I will accept the burden of raising two of his children on my own without his involvement.. It’s not like he ever wanted them anyway and he’s absent now..

          2. Anm says:

            My sons father and I have managed to deal with everything outside of the courts. Hes a midranger. You will be fine whether or not the dad comes around. I was just saying, a lot of narcissist do come back

          3. Bekah B says:

            Thanks, Anm.. So you have two narcissists that are the fathers of your children?

          4. Anm says:

            Yes, aren’t I lucky? I had a son in my 20s with a cerebral midrange narcissist. It can be difficult to apparent with him because he has no empathy whatsoever, but we manage. Now in my 30s, I had a daughter with a sociopathic type narcissist.

          5. Bekah B says:

            My goodness!! So what’s the differences you have noticed between the cerebral and the sociopathic narcissists?

          6. Anm says:

            Their defence mechanisms/manipulations are a lot a like. The midrange cerebral is not sexual at all. He is a perfectionist, diagnosed with OCD/OCPD, no empathy, he is easier to work with, harder to detect.
            A sociopath narcissist needs more stimulation. He is more sadistic, yet mesmorizing.

          7. Bekah B says:

            Thanks for expanding on that, Anm..

    3. MB says:

      Bekah B, Your situation struck a chord with me because of the pregnancy. My heart goes out to you. I too became pregnant thinking that would be the answer to marriage trouble. (It was bad enough with a normal husband. I can’t imagine what you are going through with a narc husband.) A callous discard at this time is particularly cruel. Stay strong as best you can. I’m thinking of you.

      1. Bekah B says:

        Thank you, MB.. I really do appreciate it..

  29. fortysomethingheyhey says:

    Great post 🌺👌

  30. Leslie says:

    I replay the events through the new lens. It’s good for removing fake shiny.

  31. Perfectly imperfect says:

    If a narcissist says that they love u was it a lie?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, but they believe what is being said.

      1. Perfectly imperfect says:

        They believe that saying they love you is true but it’s really a lie?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes because we are incapable of loving.

          1. Perfectly imperfect says:

            Are you a narcissist or you just write about them? Narcissist are incapable of love??? Sorry for all the questions

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I am one. Read my work.

          3. Perfectly imperfect says:

            I do everyday. Just wasn’t sure if you were speaking from experience or you

      2. Alma Jazzmin says:

        But if he believes it is true, then it has to be true in the narcissists own conception of love that is , by the way, foreign to us. The problem here is that we are playing a game following different rules. The narc told me once he loved me and I answered “I know you do, somehow, on your own terms”. He seemed pleased…

      3. foolme1time says:

        So do you believe that also? Or do you ( being you ) realize when you tell her that you love her it is a lie?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There is a conflict between the logic of self-awareness and the emotional thinking of infatuation.

          1. MB says:

            It IS love. Narc love. Feelings change. They are fickle things. I cannot describe love. How do I know if I’ve ever really felt it? If I think I have, did I really? Who’s to say if it is or isn’t?

          2. Mercy says:

            MB, you have felt love. Love is that unconditional feeling inside you that cannot be taken away. Children, family members, people you trust. Real trust! I think every person that has got caught up with a narcissist had that feeling that it won’t last. Even during the golden period. We trick ourselves into thinking this is love but it isn’t. It’s hope.

            I believe HG when he says that they mean it when they say it. BS use to say that same thing. Maybe you are right, maybe that is narc love. It’s something but it is not true love.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            How can we know what is true love? I’m nearing the end of my life and have yet to experience what I think is love, much less true love or real love that people refer to. I think people experience something that is different than anything they’ve felt before and attribute it to love which of course is different for everyone. Remember when you “loved” your first pet? But that was nothing compared to what you felt for your first boyfriend, and then for those that have children, the boyfriend was nothing in comparison to what they felt when they held their child for the first time (not the same kind of love incidentally that you experience when they crash your car lol). Wasn’t it “love” in each of these scenarios to the person experiencing them? yet it is always expressed to me that the child love trumps the other scenarios. You may say that they all represent love at different levels (because defining love is like nailing Jello to a wall). so who is to say that narcissists do not experience love? Well HG does for one lol, but I believe him to mean they do not experience it as that which non-narcissists do and expect. He has previously discussed that in therapy and through time, it has been identified to him that what he is experiencing during the golden period is infatuation. But that is again a label affixed by those who do not measure what he feels as love. It’s not “real” or “lasting” or “sustainable” enough apparently to be love. Love appears ever elusive in that it appears to be limitless in it’s levels acheivable from person to person. Maybe that is why narcissists can believe they are in love in the beginning.
            It is a limit or high they have never reached before, it just doesn’t measure up to what society has defined (unsuccessfully in my opinion) love to be.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Good post.

          5. 2SF says:

            Well said NA.
            I think narcissists experience selfish love. They think they are in love, but they are in love with the fuel they get from that other person. True love i.m.o. will last when the pink glasses come off, when it seems that other person isn’t so perfect after all. Narcs can’t do that. Once the fuel gets stale the devaluation begins. They can only take and not give, it’s about them only.
            I still love my narcs, it’s a feeling that is true, but I can not let them hurt me and gaslight me, that made me depressed and it caused my brain to go nuts.
            People who truly love, know what love is. But I agree there are all different kinds of loving feeling.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Correct 2SF.

          7. NarcAngel says:

            True. A different definition of “love” altogether.

          8. Mercy says:

            Narc Angle, I want to respond to this but I want to think on it a little bit. One thing I agree with is that love is defined by an individuals perspective. Love is a feeling that is not easy to put into words.

            You say you have yet to experience what you think is love. I know this as a false statement because I know that you are worthy of love. I’m sure there are a few readers here that have been through the thick and thin with you over the years that will agree with that statement. I think once we can accept that we are worthy of love we can truly experience it.

            As far as the narcissist and love, I had the opportunity to have this conversation with BS. Moments where I felt like the conversation was real

          9. NarcAngel says:

            I don’t believe that I am responsible for what happened to me in any way and therefore think and accept that I am worthy of love, but it doesn’t change the fact that I have never felt what love is professed to be.

          10. MB says:

            NA, I find it very uncomfortable to allow myself to be vulnerable to be loved or to show my love. I don’t know if I have ever loved romantically. I absolutely know, without a doubt that I love my children, my dogs, and HGs voice unconditionally. I know that my husband loves me (although not unconditional). Beyond that, I don’t think the wall that surrounds me will let anybody in or allow my love to flow outward. I’m closer to the end of my life than the beginning too and I know nothing.

          11. windstorm says:

            I’ve never understood romantic love. I’ve always thought that was self-delusional. But I felt real love for and from my grandmother and for and from my daughter and middle son and most of my grandchildren. To me the big difference is if the love is one-sided (I feel that all the time for others) or reciprocated (those above mentioned relationships)

            I also feel what I think of as love from my Pretzel and two narc sons. It’s not the same type of love at all, but I do believe it is a type of love. They are there for me when I need them, they value me and enjoy my company. I am important to them in many ways. It’s the best that they are capable of giving me. I guess you could say that they love me the best that they can.

          12. Mercy says:

            I’m not a lovey, dovey, kissy, cuddly type person. I don’t believe in soulmates or the one. I don’t feel anything is missing in my life because I haven’t had true romantic love. I do feel love though. It’s inside me. It feels like an big comfy t-shirt, or being home alone cooking spaghetti listening to Spotify and everything is alright with the world. It’s my kiddos calling and asking how to thaw chicken, or my brother calling to ask how dad is. It’s my friend that understands when I cancel plans because I’m just not ready to “get back out there”, my grandson hugging his sister even though she’s an annoying drama princess. My definition of love is comfort. It feels like home. 

          13. 2SF says:

            That sounds awesome Mercy! and I agree… comfort is the best!

          14. MB says:

            NA, I didn’t hear anything you said past “nearing the end of my life”. What in the hell do you mean? Don’t look at that death clock! Just keep breathing. Simple, like 2SF said!

          15. NarcAngel says:

            I meant nearer to the end than the beginning is all. Let’s put it this way – I won’t be buying a parrot.

          16. MB says:

            Geez NA, you scared me! I was afraid you were sick. If you were, you must be freed from that drafty dungeon and I was on it girl!

          17. Sweetest Perfection says:

            NA, I decided to give the silent treatment to your Memento Mori. You are so far from that. Stop it!

          18. foolme1time says:

            Oh NA! Buy the damn parrot!! You’ll be here a lot longer then you think! To many people on here ( including HG ) need you. Without your shoot from the hip straightforwardness and honesty I would be lost! I take you and your comments very seriously and at times have carried you with me ( like today) when I need that honesty and logic! At this point NA is 🤢🤮! Lol. Love ya Sister!! 😘😘 🍻

          19. NarcAngel says:

            Haha. No one needs me (least of all HG) but thank you for the sentiment. Sounds like you are having some difficulty at present. Anything you care to share, or would you rather just “read” through it? (Which of course I respect if that’s the case).

            On second thought maybe I should get a parrot. It can perch on my shoulder and wherever I go it will repeat the phrase it will hear most often from me:

            “Are you fucking with me right now?”

            Save me a lot of time.

          20. MB says:

            If outlive you NA, which is debatable, I’ll take your “Fucking with me” parrot. Put it in the will!

          21. foolme1time says:

            Oh NA you make me laugh!😆. We do you on this blog! Your logical straightforward way of writing helps many on here! As far as HG is concerned he would tell you him self but at present is preoccupied with the Iron Maiden! Or whatever he calls her. His latest victim. You have helped so many on here and I believe HG respects all of your opinions both challenging and unchallenging. You are the voice of reason. As for me, yes I am having some difficulty right now and as much as I would like to share it on the blog I just can’t! Thank you for noticing. Not much gets by you! To bad there isn’t room on your gravatar for a parrot 🦜! Lol😘

          22. HG Tudor says:

            The Iron Maiden?! That’s a band, FM1T. You mean Shield Maiden!

          23. foolme1time says:

            I’m sorry HG! I new it had Maiden in it though!

          24. HG Tudor says:

            No need to apologise dear FM1T, you made me laugh!

          25. WhoCares says:

            Omg, NarcAngel – that was so deadpan…I had to read the thread and then reread your response, like 5 times, before I got it. Now I can’t stop laughing.

          26. Mercy says:

            Sorry his send too soon. Moments that we’re real with BS were few and far between but he did open up in occasion. He told me when he says “I love you” he really feels it at the time. I believe this is true. He also said when he says he will be faithful to me he believes he can. Unfortunately the fact that he said he will be faithful while having a woman living with him without my knowledge kind of ruined any faith in what he said. That’s why the talk of narcissist and live is so hard for me to grasp.

          27. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Mercy, I am afraid faithfulness is another of those relative concepts, despite the fact HG wrote that you cannot be just a little unfaithful in the same way you can’t be a little pregnant (his comparison). I beg to differ. Yes you can. There are actually surveys that show that the vast majority of people don’t consider sexting a case of infidelity per se. When I felt guilty and complained that we both were liars, he would simply reply: but I have never lied to you. Of course there is the sanctimonious perspective of it’s all or nothing, but human relationships are complicated.

          28. MB says:

            SP and others, I like Dr Phil’s definition of cheating/ being unfaithful. If you wouldn’t do it in front of your SO or have them know, it is cheating. That can go for sexting, looking at porn, spending money on the sly, etc.

            I know that is very broad and different couples have all sorts of variations of what they want to do and accept which is awesome if they can work it out. But in the end, anything you do that you try to hide from the SO is being unfaithful.

          29. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha! I must be the cheatingest person around then! I hide almost everything I do from everyone. That way I don’t have to put up with listening to their opinions/advice/criticism. I certainly have always hidden everything possible from all my narcissists. To do otherwise would just give them ammo to use against me later. I may let them know once it is a “fait accompli”, but then I very well may not.

            To me, “cheating” in a relationship implies doing something that hurts your partner. Having my own autonomy should not hurt anyone. Even in relationships, we are all still separate people. Keeping things concealed from others seems like an essential part of having personal boundaries.

          30. MB says:

            I like the way you think Windstorm! You don’t have to worry about cheating if you don’t have a SO though. You said cheating is hurting your partner and that is true. All of the things i mentioned as cheating WOULD hurt them IF they knew which is what makes it cheating. Now, if keeping it from them is a noble thing because it protects them from hurt, I’m all good!

          31. windstorm says:

            Well, I did have a SO for over 30 years. Concealing things from him didn’t hurt him any. I’m sure he expected it. If I’d been totally open and shared everything, he’d have thought I was stupid. He certainly didn’t share everything with me.

            You were more all encompassing in what you listed as cheating:

            “If you wouldn’t do it in front of your SO or have them know, it is cheating. That can go for sexting, looking at porn, spending money on the sly, etc….
            But in the end, anything you do that you try to hide from the SO is being unfaithful.”

            None of that is cheating to me, nor would it have been to my Pretzel (although he would not have wanted to be told if I’d been sexting). In my opinion, lots of things can be hidden from a SO and you not be unfaithful, if hiding these things doesn’t hurt them. It depends on the agreed upon parameters of the relationship.

          32. MB says:

            Windstorm, I conceal a lot too. Some things would be hurtful if shared. Some things are better kept to myself. To me, in my marriage, if I hide anything that, if he knew, he would be hurt or angry, it is cheating (or being unfaithful). It is a betrayal of his trust. Some people think cheating can only be full on sexual intercourse with another. And for some, that may be all that is off limits. It is interesting to see the different takes on what is being unfaithful and what is not.

            I agree with you. Being in a relationship doesn’t mean giving up yourself. (Even if I sometimes have to hide who myself is.) Shhhhh!!!!

          33. windstorm says:

            Yeah, Pretzel and I both view cheating as only full-on heterosexual intercourse. Betraying a narcs trust seems oxymoronic, since certainly Pretzel at least has no trust. Lol!

            I would never consider something cheating just because it makes a partner angry. People get angry all the time. If I forgot to get dental floss at Walmart, Pretzel would have gotten angry, but that’s not cheating on him – that’s normal human frailty. Even if I deliberately didn’t stop at the store, that still wouldn’t be “cheating” on him. Neither would it be cheating on him if I stopped and got a milk shake at McDonalds and didn’t get him one – or conceal that I had stopped at all. Thoughtless or selfish maybe, but not cheating.

            I go out of my way to spare people’s feelings, because I will feel their hurt if I don’t. But many people have very unrealistic expectations of other people. I have a friend who will get angry and berate me if I don’t meet her for lunch when she calls me. She says it’s my responsibility as her friend (she’s not a narc, she’s codependent).

            Am I being unfaithful in our friendship if I say “no” to lunch? She certainly thinks so. But what about my needs and wants? Do they not count as much as hers? It seems to me that someone feeling hurt or angry at another’s behavior is often because they are thinking only of their own needs and not the other person’s needs.

          34. MB says:

            Windstorm, I see what you’re saying. Anything I conceal is for selfish reasons and because I don’t like answering to anybody. I’m a grown ass woman.

            My original point was only that I would consider doing anything that you wouldn’t do in front of your significant other as betrayal. Not necessarily “cheating”.

          35. windstorm says:

            Same for me, MB, as in what u conceal is for selfish reasons, because I don’t want hassle from anybody.

            “I would consider doing anything that you wouldn’t do in front of your significant other as betrayal.”

            We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. If I stopped at McDonalds for that milkshake and I don’t get him one or let him know I had one (and listen to him rant about me wasting money, eating unhealthy or putting on weight) – that’s not betraying him. He has no right to control my life so rigidly. Grown adults have the right to make their own decisions about themselves without having to get it okayed by someone else. ❤️

          36. MB says:

            Windstorm, I guess that’s the difference in being with a narcissist and being with a normal. I don’t even think about things like that. My husband doesn’t treat me that way. I could be 300 lbs and he would love me and accept me the same as he does now. He would never chastise me for eating something I enjoy or for spending money on myself. He wants me to be happy. I don’t “ask his permission”. I run the big things by him so that he’s aware, but I do me and he does him. We actually have a real good thing going, beige as it is!

          37. windstorm says:

            Sounds like you do have a real good thing going. Hope you appreciate it, beige and all. I bet if you gave it some thought, you could add some pops of color that would totally transform the appearance. Beige is a good backdrop for strong colors.

            Yeah, since the only intimate relationship I’ve ever had was with a narc, that’s all I know. And narcs will literally criticize and find fault with EVERYTHING! So I learned early to hide as much as possible.

          38. MB says:

            You’re right WS. My husband and I had a dinner date last night. We left in his (well I guess technically our) own Bat Mobile. A very fast, black sports car we bought last year that he’s always wanted but never got because he always let me pick what I wanted new and drove my hand me down car until I was ready for another. Now he gets picked on for having a “mid life crisis”, but I know the real reason he never got it.

            Anyway, back to the story. So away we go in the Bat Mobile and although he is usually very reserved and law abiding, he gives us a thrilling ride on some country back roads! And, get this…he usually listens to the music in the car so low, it can barely be heard. But I told him to crank it up and we jammed out to some loud classic rock and went fast! We had a wonderful meal and I posted some pics on Insta ala HG style (I only have 4 followers but I did it for effect so I could feel all fancy too and stuff)

            I flirted with him throughout the evening to build up a little excitement, we got home and enjoyed ourselves. It was a fun, but comfortable and safe evening. (Well except for the 100+ mph part). My only regret is that I didn’t get glittered up.

            Not off the charts passion or fireworks, but no criticism, no finding fault, no conflict or strife either.

          39. windstorm says:

            That’s great to hear! Good for you. That’s a great beginning on your redecorating!

          40. MB says:

            WS, yes! I’m taking baby steps to let him know that it pleases me for him to get the stick out of his ass. His idea of fun and mine have never been aligned. (Read that as b-o-r-i-n-g zzz!) He’s always acted way older than he is and I felt silly for wanting to be me. NOT FUN! Come on honey, LIVE a little!

          41. NarcAngel says:

            Haha. I think MB is talking more in the vein of your milkshake bringing other boys to the yard, but yes I understand what you mean. What does that look like? I’d teach you, but I’d have to charge…………

          42. Mercy says:

            Windstorm, I don’t think keeping things from your spouse/partner is wrong as long as you’re not hurting them. In a narcissist relationship having your own private pleasures (hobbies, friends, shopping) helps keep your identity. This may not be a popular opinion but I also think it’s important to have your own private savings account. When I was young and with my kids dad I learned quickly he would take everything from us. I started stashing money so I could get out.

          43. windstorm says:

            I agree.

          44. Mercy says:

            Sweetest Perfection, I have a very black and white opinion on cheating. I am not judgmental on subject because know every situation has a story behind it. I’m just saying that I don’t think there is a gray area when it comes to being faithful. Others may disagree with my opinion but your statement about feeling guilty is the real answer.

            I wonder in those surveys if they asked the partner if they felt cheated on after finding out about the sexting going on behind their back.

          45. MB says:

            I’ve just come to the conclusion that love is an illusion. Just like reality and control. Master illusionists! It’s different for everybody and in every application. And you know what? I’m content with that. Or am I? Y’all are making my brain ache!

          46. Mercy says:

            I think you all are crazy in this “love is an illusion” topic haha. MB and NA im sure you have experienced love but have not identified it as love.

            Obviously this is my opinion only and I certainly understand and do not judge your opinions. My perception and my belief is that if you are worthy of love, you are loved.

          47. MB says:

            Mercy, I read your comment this morning but wasn’t sure how or if I would reply. It’s your lucky day to be the catalyst for my morning shower musings. Ha ha

            As I ponder more, I think it would be more accurate to say love is a perception. There is no way I can know what it feels like to someone else. But like colors, I know what I call red and that is red to me. I know what I feel as love and that is love to me. I’ve felt love. I’ve given a lot of love away.

            I was in a bad place earlier this week. Moody MB! I go down the drain awash in my own pity party sometimes. Never mind me.

            At the risk of getting too deep, everything is all an illusion on this plane anyway. Our perceptions through the filter of our human brain is what makes our “reality”. And that my friends is what we are here to do IMO. Experience the perceptions that add up to a human life and learn from it all. It’s the connections we make and the experiences we share that make that dash between the year of your birth and the year of your death on this movie screen worthwhile. Be the star in your own life!

          48. Mercy says:

            MB, I understand what you are saying about perception and that is why I value your opinion. I know I am not necessarily right or wrong. Your perception is just very hard for me to grasp. Through interactions here, I’ve formed an opinion of you based on your comments to others and i know your heart is good. I feel you should receive the same love you give. When you said you don’t think you have ever felt love I was taken back. To me that’s like being born without a nose. The comments from you and NA made me sad but that is not pity, it’s just something I want you to feel. That’s the selfish empath in me haha. 

            As far as being down last week. I get it. I have my really bad days too. I try to always stay positive bit some days are just hopeless. I hope you have worked through that and are feeling better. 

          49. MB says:

            I am feeling better now Mercy and thank you for your sentiments. I do suffer from a mood disorder which sucks donkey dicks sometimes. The whole down on love thing was part of that I think.

            It is a perception and believe me when I say I do feel it and I know I have experienced it. At least what I deem to be love.

            It is true however that deep inside, I carry toxic shame and at my core I feel very unworthy of love so it is not something I am comfortable accepting so I’m not sure I’ve really ever had a deep connection. That is not possible without vulnerability.

            I push that failure of a self down as much as I can and some days are easier than others. Sometimes I can ignore the existence of that useless, unlovable person and be the me I want to be. I am reminded of the presence of that stupid bitch from time to time when something makes me feel less than and I can see her. I am coming to the realization that the shame is the root cause of my mood disorder. I’m sure I need therapy but I ain’t doing it! No way! Although I would like to know what caused it for sure, I have my theories and that’s enough for me. I don’t want to pull back the layers of my self made person and see HER. If that was all that was left, I would no longer exist. There would be nothing worth having and the person that I have worked so hard to be would vanish. Now we can’t have that can we?

          50. Mercy says:

            MB Im sorry you feel this way. I assume the HER is the woman that gave birth to you? She doesn’t deserve the M name if she did this to you. I wish I knew magical words to make you feel worthy inside. I know alot of us walk through life acting completely normal to others around us but they don’t know the true struggle inside. I understand why you wouldn’t want to try therapy. I didn’t think I could handle it either. That is your choice but I’ll tell you my experience quick. I got to the point in my relationship that I thought “WTF is wrong with me? Why cant I be normal and get through this?” I refused to live in misery any longer. The first lady I saw was a complete NO. We didn’t click in any way. About a year later I tried another. She was great. She was the type of person I could go have a beer with. She picked up right away on my awareness. We didn’t have to go through session after session trying to discover things I already knew. She was also open to my thoughts and analysis. She immediately identified PTS and I think she also understood that talk therapy wasn’t for me. We tried EMDR and I feel it was very effective. It opened up issues that I didn’t know existed and I was able to process them rather quickly. There were no lingering open wounds that I had to deal with daily after. I’ll admit the night of and the day after, felt like an emotional hangover though. I did about 5 sessions and stopped. There were things I just wasn’t ready to go through yet. A year later I feel like I’m ready to go back…I should add that the first two times I went in her office I just cried. I hate crying, it’s so embarrassing not being able to control my emotions. She just laughed at me and said “what? you think no one ever cries when they come in here?”. What a smart ass! It was great.

            This site is a Godsent for me. Talking to readers like you and learning from HG has changed my life. At first the things I learned here help me through my toxic relationship. Now I hardly think of him as being part of my life. But I’m still learning. I had meetings all day at work yesterday. I found that i have more control over my emotional thinking and as a result my contributions are being heard and applied.  

            Well I ended up rambling wayyyy too much about myself. Sorry! You made a comment earlier “at the risk of getting too deep” I don’t know if that was because you didn’t want to open up or if you thought opening up is a burden to others. I hope it isn’t the latter. You give so much help to so many of us here, you should never feel like you can’t take help in return. 

          51. 2SF says:

            You know Mercy, I am the kind of person who would listen, hug you, feed you, give you a room in my house and all that. Here on this weblog I am so happy there are people like you who say what I wish I could say. I just don’t know how to comfort people with words. So, thank you for saying this to MB.xx

            MB, sweetheart, I wish you could think about yourself in a different way. Write a positive message to yourself and read it every day. You deserve as much love as everyone else on this planet. Be vulnerable, it really opens a new world once you do. Take care MB xx

          52. Mercy says:

            2SF, Thank you that was very kind of you to say. Sometimes I think I talk too much haha. I don’t think you have any problems providing words of comfort, your last comment is proof of that.

          53. 2SF says:

            Thanks Mercy, I wish I could just hug or make a nice dinner 🙂

          54. MB says:

            Mercy, thank you so much for your concern. That is very sweet. If you get a chance, go back and read my post again as you have misinterpreted it. Thank you for sharing your story of therapy. I am glad you feel it has been of benefit. As for me, I like what HG said about dwelling on the past. It can’t be changed. “Forward, ever forward!”

            I’ve posted stuff on this subject of my lost self and my feelings of shame from time to time on the blog at the risk of sounding crazy. I guess my hope is that somebody will see it and be like, “oh, I feel that way too”. I hear you. But no, it has yet to happen. Only crickets or misinterpretation. I have a difficult time articulating what it is so I’m sure the misinterpretation is down to me.

            And I said “at the risk of sounding too deep” because on that comment, I was talking about some heavy philosophical and existential type stuff. I do share things here I never dare say or write down anywhere else. In fact, I’ve allowed myself to say things here that I would never had admitted to me!

            You are a gem Mercy! Thank you for reading my posts. You will see that I’m flitting all over the place. Here and there. I’m moody and mercurial and Gemini. You never know which twin you’re gonna get! I much prefer the fun one. That moody, introspective twin can take a hike. She makes me feel miserable when she rears her ugly head.

          55. Mercy says:

            MB, I’m sorry I misinterpreted. After your correction I went back and re-read. I think I understand. Since I’ve been more consistent on this site there are readers like you that have been here for a long time and have shared their stories in the past that I’ve missed. I pick up bits and pieces but I’ve missed the whole story. Maybe that’s what we should use the bio section on our WordPress accounts for. That way we can refer to each other’s story.

            As far as therapy I hope I didn’t sound pushy. You have to do what you are comfortable with and I’m all about moving forward. I just wanted to share my experience so if you ever get to a point where you consider it, you’ll know it doesn’t always suck as bad as you think it will.

            “I was talking about some heavy philosophical and existential type stuff.” Were you referring to your donkey dick comment here? 😉

          56. MB says:

            Don’t apologize Mercy. We’re all bits n pieces here! You didn’t sound pushy at all about therapy. I’m glad you were able to find a good therapist. I didn’t want you to think my mother abused me. I did have K dig up the post from where I had been researching.

            Yeah, donkey dicks are a deep subject to be sure! Sorry for that.

          57. Mercy says:

            Haha why would you say sorry? I noticed you used the “oh k” function. I would be interested to read what she finds. Sometimes I feel nosey asking questions but I really do learn alot from other people’s stories. Some people feel comfortable sharing and others don’t. Either way we are all getting something positive here.

          58. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB, no!!!! Im taking advantage of the wi-fi at this beach bar to take care of you (I may be a little tipsy but it worried me to read that). Don’t say that! I don’t know you and I already think you are precious, don’t say that about yourself. ❤️

          59. MB says:

            SP, you’re not worried about me! You’re just bragging about having drinks in a beach bar and I’m in the middle of a long dark winter!

            No, I’m only kidding. I appreciate your sweet comments. Most of the time, I can be the fun-loving MB I want to be. Other times are dark but they pass. I push her down, slam the lid on her fingers and dance on top!

          60. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Incorrect. I was just stating the fact that I was on a beach bar, which I was; a little tipsy, which I was; and wishing you were here with me to have fun and forget about those destructive feelings about yourself, MB (I’m not very good at imitating HG’s logical thinking, I know). I have a little hangover today and can’t seem to follow up very well on that love story with Iron Maiden…

          61. MB says:

            SP, yasss on the beach with a drink in my hand is one of my most favorite situations to be in! I’d also love the opportunity to travel and not stand still too. Be safe out there and thank you for your sweet thoughts. I knew what you meant. Maybe we can have a drink together soon!

          62. MB says:

            Oh K, if you see this, I would greatly appreciate your help. I’ll make you some special brownies if you’ll find my long pitiful post where I talked about toxic shame, John Bradshaw, where the making of a narcissist and empath are similar to a point, etc. I think I was trying to describe my “creature” at that time if I remember correctly. I want to read it again and I can’t find it. You’re the best!

          63. K says:

            I think it just boils down to unconditional love v conditional/self-serving love. And what works for the narcissist works differently for us.

            My love is unconditional (free and safe), which is good and bad, I accept people as they are and allowed some of them to trample my boundaries and abuse me.

            IRL, I love my children unconditionally and they do love me back, I have friendship love with one friend and sibling love with my empath sister and that is it and I am ok with that.

            I think you are right; it is like trying to nail Jello to the wall.

          64. windstorm says:

            I agree about love. You said it very well. There are many types and many levels of love. Taking care of your responsibilities toward another person is one type of love. Narcs can show this “love” to others. They can’t experience the depths or all the types of love that empaths can, but I do believe they can experience certain types and levels of love. Just like I can love these yahoos in 8th period class, but I can never love them like their mothers do.

          65. NarcAngel says:

            Haha, yahoos. Sounds like love. I hear you.

          66. foolme1time says:

            So infatuation is one of the emotions that still remains inside of you that causes you pain when it does not continue? In a normal relationship couples move past the infatuation stage into something deeper, however when this begins to happen in the new relationship that you are in you see it as the other person not loving you as much as they did in the beginning? Is that another reason you put them on the shelf? Because it becomes boring or stale and by disappearing for awhile and then returning it is fresh and new once again? Thank you for taking the time to answer. A lot has happened in the New Year that requires me to be spot on with my thinking and any logic I can gain from you is always invaluable!

          67. HG Tudor says:

            Not putting them on the shelf, when the fuel becomes stale or is not provided often enough or in large enough amounts then it causes the devaluation.

          68. foolme1time says:

            So by shelving you are actually saving them from devaluation? Is that correct HG?

          69. HG Tudor says:

            Shelving is not done to save anyone from devaluation. It means we do not want to ‘play’ with that toy for now and we turn to another toy instead (this is what happens with all secondary sources).

          70. foolme1time says:

            I apologize HG, I think I misunderstood the last comment on this subject.

          71. HG Tudor says:

            No need to apologise.

          72. foolme1time says:

            One more question if you don’t mind, and I will leave you alone HG. What happens if you return to play with that toy after she has been put on the shelf and she is no longer there and or does not want to play any longer? Since she is only a second and is easily replaced do you just let her go?

          73. HG Tudor says:

            No longer there? In what sense?

          74. foolme1time says:

            Thank you for your time HG, I’ve found the answer.

          75. HG Tudor says:

            Jolly good.

          76. windstorm says:

            You said about shelving, “It means we do not want to ‘play’ with that toy for now and we turn to another toy instead“

            Narcs do that everyday in the course of their daily activities. They may have many fuel sources they jump between. Im curious as to how long does it take of not being contacted by a narc for it to be considered “shelving.” If a narc has a set routine of calling every evening or so for 20-30 minutes, would the empath be on the shelf the rest of the time? Or does it require being left alone for a longer period?

            Thank you for taking the time to consider this.

          77. HG Tudor says:

            When you are called for 20-30 minutes, you are off the shelf (if you are a secondary source) and when the call ends, you go back on it.

          78. MB says:

            HG, is shelving part of the compartmentalization or is it altogether different?

          79. HG Tudor says:

            It is part of it.

          80. windstorm says:

            Thank you for responding, HG. That makes sense with my own observations. So for family, friends and coworkers who are narcs, we spend almost all our time on their shelf until they pick us up by calling, texting, meeting us in the hallway, etc. And a narc with many fuel sources is like a child with a roomful of toys, constantly picking one up and putting another one down, depending on his whim of the moment.

            I had thought shelving was more of a deliberate ignoring for a longer period of time, but it’s really just whenever they’re not thinking about us – a lot like compartmentalization.

          81. HG Tudor says:

            Correct. Putting someone on the shelf is not devaluation. Deliberate ignoring is not shelving, it is a silent treatment and is devaluation.

          82. windstorm says:

            One last clarification, HG. You said this was true of shelving if you are a secondary source. Is it not also shelving for primary sources when they are not with you, not thinking about you and drawing fuel from secondary sources?

          83. HG Tudor says:

            No, the primary source is not shelved in the way that secondary sources are.

          84. windstorm says:

            Thank you, HG.

          85. HG Tudor says:

            Pleasure WS.

          86. K says:

            This comment may help explain the struggle/conflict.

            HG Tudor
            AUGUST 5, 2018 AT 13:48
            No because the emotional thinking of infatuation overrides the logic of past failures.

            He would purchase a bouquet a roses (that is a manipulation) to extract fuel (positive) from the person. The act of giving flowers would be self-serving, not genuine. He doesn’t truly feel for this person; he wants to absorb her emotions/fuel. Everything he does revolves around acquiring the Prime Aims.

            This quote is from the article Provocation.
            “There is no unconditional giving with our kind. We only give to receive.”

          87. foolme1time says:

            Thank you K!😘

          88. K says:

            My pleasure foolme1time!

            JANUARY 14, 2019 AT 11:03
            Does she know what you are HG?

            HG Tudor
            JANUARY 14, 2019 AT 11:30
            Thank you for clarifying. No.


          89. MB says:

            K, it feels special to be pulled from the archives! Thank you.

          90. K says:

            That is because you are special!

            I think the comment you may be referring to is located on this thread. Use the search function control/command F, keyword: toxic shame. If that isn’t it, let me know.


          91. MB says:

            Awwwww. Thank you K. Sometimes I do feel very special. And yes, that was the thread. The whole command F never works for me. I think you have a magical computer or something. I appreciate you finding it for me. Although I wrote it offline and copied/pasted it to the blog, I didn’t keep it for fear somebody would find it and have me involuntarily committed! Now, let me find that good time brownie recipe…

            No!No! You’ve done enough K. I’ll find it.

          92. K says:

            My pleasure MB
            Of course you are special!!!

            I use a Mac so command+F works well, for other devises, control+F should work. The magic is in the fingers and your comment is close to the top of the thread.

          93. foolme1time says:

            So you struggle with yourself with what is and what is not? When you purchase a bouquet of beautiful roses do you purchase them because that is what others do to show love and affection? Or do you purchase them because you feel something for this person and want them to know that?

      4. Joanne says:

        Is it weird that it brings me some level of comfort to know that he believed those things in the moment he was saying them?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is dangerous, he meant them only in the moment but it was not genuine because what was meant was for self-serving reasons and nothing to do with you.

      5. Alma Jazzmin says:

        OK but if we think on terms of a mid-range or a lesser, expressing love to someone would be a true emotion for them since they are not aware of the existence of a “real/normal/accepted” love. What we call Infatuation is equal to love for the narcissist and what we call love is not even on their emotional map, right?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          Beware the Love Devotee trait obscuring the fact that love does not involve abusing someone, leaving them distraught, bewildered, broken etc.

      6. Getting There says:

        Last night I was thinking about the definition of romantic love and what do I know about romantic love any more than what does a narcissist know.
        Personally, before my ex husband, I was essentially seen as a body and thought that giving would ultimately lend to them loving me (spoiler alert: it didn’t work). With my ex husband and the subsequent relationship I said “I love you” to each as I loved them. Looking back, though, I didn’t fully trust either and I didn’t allow myself to be fully vulnerable to either; and yet I thought I loved them. No, I did love them and one was the love of my life up to this point, so what the heck is romantic love then?

        My trying to figure out why it sounds like I should know “romantic love” made me try to figure out how society has determined “romantic love.” In what I have heard from others and seen in my latest pursuit of dating, I see two primary categories: those who want to love for marriage and determine on the first two dates if it will potentially go that way or not; and those who just want uncommitted style of romantic relationships. Since I don’t seem to find myself in either category, I was then reminded of the ancient Greeks and their multiple types of love. In reviewing those types of love, I saw a few that, in my opinion based on my limiting knowledge, a narcissist seems to fit and society accepts:
        Eros: looking it up, there are sites that actually define this as the “romantic love.” I know many non narcissist individuals who, as much as they want a real relationship, will not go on a second or third date if the chemistry or sexual attraction is not already there. It has been established that narcissists have emotional thought due to infatuation. Does that not fall within the definition of this type of love?
        Ludus: this type seems to be on the rise in society. It appears that narcissists seem to fit within the definition of this type as well.
        Philautia: narcissists seem to understand the unhealthy part of the definition. Looking at it, though, how many in society live the healthy version?

        I know for me that Agape and pragma love are the long standing loves and what I would want to give. Is this where the difference lies? Or is there something about the Eros love that I am missing? Is it about it being about the fuel and prime aims versus the person itself? If so then I struggle with that as I especially knew the last guy not to trust him fully and didn’t respect the way he was with me in some ways – but I loved him.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          GT, to me romantic love is a 19th c invention that has done more harm than good.

      7. Getting There says:

        Thank you for sharing that, SP! I would like to hear more about it.
        Can I ask what happened in the 19th century that led to that? Why do you feel it has caused more harm than good?

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          GT, I don’t have access to the internet where I’m at for long so I’ll be brief; I sooo would love to chat with you more, but you know the rules…the 19th c. witnessed a systemic change of ideals, in part, impulsed by the economic and social repercussions of the Industrial Revolution, and also because of the inherited ideas of individuality from the previous century. All this caused also a transference from old ideas of love to the creation of romantic love as a sublimation of individual emotions, mostly a union of passion, sex, and emotions,based on Plato but with a stronger emphasis on the emotional sphere and on the idea of exclusivity and fidelity (which Plato didn’t care much about btw). This is not very complete I’m sorry but I can’t write much on it, I could recommend a few readings when I have access to my library. The idea is that the romantic love we strive to achieve is mostly based on an unrealistic and idealistic attitude toward a partner, and the idea of l’amour toujours, in French, a love that never ends. And which is also the root for so many toxic relationships… so, blinded by this ideal love, many people endure horrendous treatment with the hope that love can conquer all. I think that’s what HG calls “being in love with love.,” please correct me if I’m wrong.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Sweet P
            And then Disney came along to create an empire and add to the dysfunction of society by peddling unreal expectations of romance and love to targeted and disillusioned parents, who in turn passed the mantle of hope and spread the illusion to their children (though with good intention) through bringing it to life in beloved books and film. Genius.

            Snow White: Only TRUE love’s kiss can save her.
            Sleeping Beauty: Brought back to life with a kiss from her Prince.
            The Little Mermaid: Sells her soul for legs (sea legs?) to have her Prince.
            The list is long.
            Note that men must be Princes (placing unrealistic expectation on men and setting up Princesses ripe for the picking by narcissists). We are also conditioned to believe that we must suffer and overcome great obstacles for a love that is worthy.

            I bet Walt was a narc. It would be interesting to see the Architect of Animated and Artificial Amour in HG’s “A Very …” series.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Great alliteration.

      8. Tappi Tikarrass says:

        Italians have two different phrases for love.
        1. Tiamo, the romantic type of love involving sex of some kind
        2. Ti voglie bene- translated- I want what’s best for you

        A couple will say no.1 to each other.
        No. 2 is for any other type of connection.

        When I first learnt this, I was impressed that there was a culturally expressed distinction between types of love…..

        Just wanted to share that little tid bit xo

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Surely number two should be ‘I want what’s best for me’?!

      9. Tappi Tikarrass says:

        That’s what most Italian men are thinking!
        Thanks for the laugh HG

        1. HG Tudor says:


      10. Getting There says:

        Thank you for sharing that! I like the Italian distinction!
        In my opinion, the different terminology of the ancient Greeks and Italians gives a more clear understanding than the English use of the same term for all types of love.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Tappi, just a little correction and sorry, I don’t want to sound pretentious.
          It’s spelled “Ti amo” and “Ti voglio bene” in Italian.
          “Te amo” and “te quiero” in Spanish.
          In both languages the former is exclusively for romantic love, whereas the latter can be used for friendship. I would never tell a friend “Ti/Te amo,” but I definitely use the other two with friends and family members. HG, about Brexit: you need different passports, it’s convenient. Good luck with that farce…

      11. Getting There says:

        I understand we are limited by the rules, but it would have been great to talk more about this with you! This is fascinating!
        I would like to look more into this before commenting. Considering the limitations of where you are, when you are able and if HG allows, I would love for your suggestion on books to read.
        And to think I was just trying to think of better ways to use my brain, you have given me something interesting to research. Thank you!

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          NA, The Little Mermaid is the most disturbing one. A woman that gives up on her voice in order to have legs (and what is in between) for her man… and her best friend is a crab…don’t get me started.

          1. windstorm says:

            I agree with you about The Little Mermaid. I found it very disturbing in many ways, but it was my daughter’s favorite movie. She was in preschool when it came out on dvd and she insisted on watching it every afternoon for nearly a year. Thankfully it didn’t seem to warp her. She ended up a super-empath.

      12. Lori says:

        Ok this is where it gets confusing. I have been deliberately ignored but I believe it’s shelving because I can text him.

      13. nunya biz says:

        MB, I want to point out that I think it is cheating for one partner to decide upon their own definition of what “meeting the needs of their partner” entails with absolutely no input from said partner and then claiming to the world that they have done so by their own definition.

        And I mean seriously. Very seriously. That’s about the biggest cheat around. Biggest scam running. I ain’t falling for it, not ever, fuck that.

        That aside, I like what Mercy said about therapy and EMDR. That kind of thing can change your life. I am a big proponent of practically effective therapies like EMDR and CBT. I also just did a run of group (CBT) therapy it was life altering. I got to meet other empathic people with similar issues though. I did not have that previously.
        I said to someone else on another thread that we tend to think in terms of “fix” and “solve”. Improvement is amazing and can feel satisfying, relieving, hopeful, supportive, encouraging. All of those wonderful things. I was able to go to a treatment center that offers multiple modalities of support so that I could access different pieces. I would now would not go to a place that does not support practical approaches along with “talk therapy”, I need people to be able to get their hands dirty and be real about things.

        Hmm….just thinking.
        WS, your lunch story about someone getting mad and putting on obligation. That drives me CRAZY. You seem to handle it, I cannot do that and I get so pissed. I’m like no, no, No, NO. I said no, I said no, I said no.
        I don’t know, it sounds pretty narc-y. Not necessarily malignant. Plus you are obviously the kind of person to go out of your way (as am I), so it’s just and extra kick to the shins, imo.
        Fuck all, dealing with shit like that and then on the other side of me I got some other narc cancelling last minute plans to supposedly support me without a care. I show the fuck up. Controlling bastards. My intentions are so amazing. And I’m awesome. I won’t talk to them. Too many other amazing people to talk to. Like Windstorm : D.
        Seriously though, so many people are not narcs. Yikes what a rant.

  32. Mona says:

    It was hard to acknowledge, what kind of fool I have been. I do not think that there is still a gap. The gap exploded. But I am in a pretty good situation. There are no children, there is only a small amount of money he owes me. The music we listened to, meanwhile I have visited the concerts with other people. I overwrote all those memories with new ones. I forgave myself for being a fool. I care for myself. He does not have a place in my mind anymore. The disorder itself is still fascinating. And if he dies some day, I will bring a daffodil to his grave- perhaps.
    But I am not sure- maybe I am completely indifferent then and it is too far to drive too and that could be a way of ten minutes. I do not know..
    I am honest, if there would be another nice man in my life, he would be forgotten, right now.

    1. Renarde says:

      WordPress and its general cuntishness is not allowing me to reply in train. Just going back over the checking of bios sub-thread.

      Ever curious me – @MB just checked your bio and found this most excellent quote from HG.

      “Wanting is imprisonment, achieving is freedom.”
      ~ HG Tudor

      Madonna said, or more likely appropriated, another version, around about her Erotica era.

      “Poor is the man whose pleasures require the permission of another”

      I’ve had a monumental shock today and I am hurting so badly because it involves people who I love dearly. I dont know how old people are on here but im in my early forties. In pre internet days, there were no such things as networks or clouds. No, what you had was the era of the Mainframe. Smart pcs, the servers, who controlled the dumb terminals. A network of sorts but on a closed level.

      I feel, I know, that there is a person in my life who is desperately trying to overwrite my own programming. To turn me into the dumb terminal; the ultimate appliance.

      Is it any coincidence that the computer slang for the Mainframe was that you are ‘slaved’ to the Master computer? I think not.

      The essence of all of this is to slave the Empaths to the Master terminal. Some Mainframes are bigger than others. Some have more processing power. Matters not. The end goal is the same. Slave as many dumb terminals to the Mainframe as you can comfortably handle.

      I’ve gone rogue, native. As many of us on here are or are in the process of doing so. But there are always ties that bind and these are precisely the pressure points that are used against us. The big ones. The ones that involve love.

      Then you get to a really interesting point. The power plays and manipulations cease to have an effect. Now its walnut and sledgehammer time. Then the question becomes, how long can you hold out before you crack?

      Forgive me Narcsite, but I’m getting increasingly tired with all this SEM’s are the only way to be! We love ourselves! Others want to be us! Polls are saying we’re pretty much all SE’s on here! Etc etc…(I am aware that some of the most prolific posters and the ones I personally respect are saying the precise opposite – that they are not SEs and are happy that they’re not. That speaks volumes to me).

      Or as one disgusting piece of filth told me in my own house, my own kitchen said…

      He walked over to me and placed his first finger to my head and said “Im going to get right inside your head. Intelligent women are ALWAYS the easiest to manipulate.”

      Naturally, I thought he was fucking crackers but he did have a point. We are easily mamipulated. Pretty much every profile I see on here comes from extremely intelligent women. But why? Because stupid people totally miss the manipulations. Im sorry ive had to use that word but right now, im all out of spoons.

      Ok. So I’ve been afforded the ‘gift’ of being able to see temporarily through a Ns eyes (supernova) But it is THE Dark Trick and it should NEVER be coverted. Never. Not that ill convince anyone of this. Chicken and egg.

      There is a lot to be said about being innocent.

      Ive had my ramble. Thank you. X. There is a lot to be said for just being grateful for what we have, not regretful for what we covert but can never have.

      1. MB says:

        Renarde, I’m sorry you are hurting from bad news. The rug gets jerked out from under us sometimes and it takes a while to get our bearings back. I hope you are feeling better.

        As far as the quote from HG, I don’t know how he meant it, but this is what it means to me and why I wanted it in my bio: I’ve spent my entire life being imprisoned in a cage of wanting “more”. I can stay there for the rest of my life feeling sorry for myself or I can create action steps toward achieving. “Wanting” is just the first step.

        His quote reminds me of the strength I have inside to move ever forward and follow through even though the fear of success can be paralyzing.

        Most people are afraid to try because they fear failure. I am imprisoned by wanting because I’m stuck in the mindset that it’s all I deserve. Success if for others, not me. This reminds me that that thinking is rubbish.

      2. windstorm says:

        It pains me that you’ve had shock and hurt dumped on you by the people you love. That’s the worst type of hurt in my opinion and it always shocks me, too. I will be saying prayers and do a ritual outside in our pristine, sparkling, new snow to send you positive energy.

        Rants can be very therapeutic and I agree with much in yours. Our intelligence can be used against us just like any other characteristic. And it is particularly galling to me when I realize that I have been manipulated that way.

        “There is a lot to be said about being innocent…There is a lot to be said for just being grateful for what we have.”

        I totally agree with both these statements. One of my own traits that I’m most grateful for is that I always have the ability to see beauty and find joy in any situation. I think that’s because I still retain a core of innocence deep inside me. It’s tied to joy and optimism and an irrepressible love of discovery.

        I agree also that we shouldn’t have regrets or covet what others have. Not only is it pointless, but it’s often fallacious. Often what we envy is really not what is best for us and may well just be an illusion. And what we regret losing would have turned out badly and hurt us even more if we had held on to it.

        Happiness comes from accepting who we really are right now and loving that person – not pretending to be some other person we wish we were.

        May this upcoming week be filled with happiness for you. ❤️

        1. Renarde says:


          Thank you very much for your kind words at this difficult time. And thank you for your positive energy.

          I find myself thinking about snow. I was 3 when we had a fantastic white christmas. Feet of snow. Don’t get that now in England really.

          I really hope that this is a better week because last night, I remembered something from my childhood. It wasnt a forgotten memory, far from it. I remembered something, a behaviour, I used to do when I was very young.

          I cant even bring myself to write about it because the implications are horrendous and it also makes sense of something someone close to me was saying recently.

          1. windstorm says:

            You’re welcome. Sometimes I feel that way about difficult things. I write them out in longhand, think them through and then go outside and have a “letting go” ceremony and burn the papers.

            Somethings it helps us to talk thru with other people. Somethings we will never feel willing to share with others and some things we should never share. We each have to decide which category each memory/experience fits into. ❤️

  33. Perfectly imperfect says:

    You wrote my hole last two year…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I beg your pardon?!

      1. Perfectly imperfect says:

        I was saying. What you wrote has been my feelings the last two years since getting out of my relationship with my narcissistic ex

      2. NarcAngel says:


      3. 2SF says:

        It’s not funny. You understood her.
        (you can see in her bio she says her writing may not be grammatically correct)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Get off the high horse 2SF, I did not understand what was meant actually. As I have stated in a reply to you elsewhere, it was only when PI asked why it was funny I returned to the comment to work out what it was that she meant to write that I figured it out. My response was genuine. I do not read people’s bios by the way.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            It was fucking hilarious even if you did understand. No one is laughing at P.I but rather at the way it could be taken given the typo (which we are all guilty of). It provided but a moment of levity intended or not and allowed for a correction in understanding. Let us never lose our sense of humor.

            Those of us who laughed were laughing at how it allowed us to take our minds in another direction and not at you. Please know that.

          2. Perfectly imperfect says:

            It’s all fine. I biggie! I was just interested in your writing . Maybe you should read your followers bio since we like to read your work 😊 but thank you!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Jolly good. I do not have the time to do so PI, but thank you for the offer nonetheless.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          What bios? Seriously – what are you referring to and where can they be accessed?

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            NA, she may be referring to the “About Me” section on WordPress, which I left blank. That, or HG is having secret auditions to IPPS and we didn’t get the memo.

          2. Perfectly imperfect says:

            Everyone has about me section… aka called bios

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I didn’t fill that out. But I will.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Please ensure you do not include any personal information or contact details. I think I shall have to start checking these bios to ensure people do not offend the rules re contact details to ensure this remains a constructive environment.

          5. MB says:

            Nooooo. Not another thing on HGs to do list!!! Y’all behave. That is not a constructive use of his time.

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Be my guest. I didn’t violate any rules, nor would I ever. Speaking of violators …

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha very good, I see what you did there.

          8. Joanne says:

            Dammit, I didn’t get the secret IPPS audition memo either! You are all so funny 🙂 Speaking of violators, thank you for the musical inspo, SP 😉

          9. Sweetest Perfection says:

            You’re welcome, Joanne. You were left out too? Who made the cut to the audition, then? I heard there are some consolation prizes too if we don’t make it to IPPS…

          10. Joanne says:

            Yes! There’s always the shelf! I’m basically an expert at that now, so….

          11. MB says:

            Don’t feel bad Joanne. I didn’t get the memo either. These are not the preferred hunting grounds of the Ultra Elite. Just consider it a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time or maybe more appropriately, the right place at right time! Either way, I’m still nursing my broken heart.

          12. Joanne says:

            True, true! Best we witness the wining/dining/ice skating (?!) from the safety of our shelves here!

          13. NarcAngel says:

            Sweet P
            Ah! I have as little to do with WordPress as possible, so no wonder I was not aware. Thank you.

          14. K says:

            click on the gravatar and voila! Mine is blank.

      4. Sweetest Perfection says:

        I can’t even. HAHA!

      5. Kellie Mccoey says:


      6. Sweetest Perfection says:

        I second NA’s demand on those mysterious bios.

      7. DoForLuv says:


        Exactly HA!

      8. 2SF says:

        PI, I’m sorry for the abuse you had to put up with. 20 years is a long time. Please read everything on this weblog. I hope you will heal. Is anyone helping you? Do you see a therapist?

        “and destroyed my ability to have relationships”

        I totally get what you are saying. It’s hard to trust and to look at the world with an open view and mind, after years of narcissistic abuse.
        Take care PI xx

      9. Lori says:

        Call me a Narc but I thought it was funny. There was nothing hurtful in any of that.

        Always so much drama …

    2. 2SF says:

      HG understood the first time.
      You wrote hole (opening/gap) instead of whole.
      (Just saying so you don’t doubt yourself.)

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Actually I did not understand it the first time. It was only when I returned to it when PI asked why it was funny I realised precisely what she meant.

        1. Perfectly imperfect says:

          I just realizing PI is me!!! 😂 i was asking the narc angel what was funny?. I am just very attracted to this writing because I have experienced very bad narcissist behavior for my ex and it been very hard for me to get over this person. I knew him 20 years and he completely stabbed me in the back and it devastated me and destroyed my ability to have relationships . And yes I do write in my bio my grammar is aweful…. seriously it is 😂

      2. 2SF says:

        Yeah right Tudor. Mr Gaslight expert. Honestly…

        And I’m on no high horse. There’s only one person on a high horse, like forever and that’s you! 😑

        Make sure that Brexit will finally happen.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thanks for ignoring the factual accuracy of my response by deflecting. See also PI’s response. One – nil to me.

          I am not involved with Brexit.

          1. windstorm says:

            “I am not involved with Brexit.”
            Of course not, HG. That’s why it’s such a mess.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I like you WS! It is an utter shambles, I am considering moving abroad permanently actually.

          3. MB says:

            Moving where HG? Is there marriage and a new citizenship status involved? We all know you wouldn’t move due to Brexit. 😍

          4. HG Tudor says:

            If I see my country as fucking it up, I will move.

          5. MB says:

            I like that HG!

      3. Renarde says:

        Got to admit, I was puzzled too.

        Weird, strange and somewhat devient ideas thrust themselves into my mind.

        But that’s just me.

      4. Renarde says:

        Hi PI Seconding NA’s words and also welcome to the board!

      5. 2SF says:

        Really HG, who is the one deflecting here?
        ‘One-nil to me’? That is so childish, but then I know for you it’s all about winning.
        Everyone can see the ‘?!’ behind your comment to PI.
        You wouldn’t put that if you were seriously wondering what she meant.
        It was about ‘hole’ and you even said so in the comment to PI.
        I agree, it was funny reading it at first and it’s not even about your reaction so much as well as about the fact that 14 people ‘like’ it (which in a way I understand as well).
        But I felt sorry for PI.

        That felt like being back in the classroom, the schoolteacher (narcish bitch) calling Henri to come to her desk and she starts telling the classroom how stupid Henri is because he made that and that spelling mistake. And then the Whole class would be laughing.

        Anyway, forget about it. If you wanna win, fine. I even give you one bonus point extra, so it’s 2-0 now. Okay? Happy? xx

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I was pointing out that you completely failed to respond to the substance of my observations.

          You have done it again. You focused on my observation about it being one-nil and then have failed to understand the point I was making.

          My initial remark to PI was one of bewildered amusement. I did not know what she meant and what she wrote was entertaining (as she has also recognised). When she asked what was funny about it, I revisited and worked out what she meant. Straightforward.

          1. 2SF says:

            I always read carefully and I do not miss one single letter. The fact that I do not respond to all you said doesn’t mean I didn’t read it or understood it. You don’t need to repeat yourself, I heard you the first time.
            And you taught me it’s no good reasoning with a narcissist. So I rest my case.
            YOU WIN
            Have a nice day! And say hello to poor Mrs. May (with her not so clever ideas – see… I’m on my high horse again)

          2. Renarde says:

            Urr?? What’s Theresa ‘Im probably fucked’ May have to do with the price of fish?

            Unless of course you’re proposing ‘A very…” writing prompt at HG?

            Could be a good one that aa she does appwar to be making a tit of things. Jesus, that defeat last night was epic!

          3. 2SF says:

            Renarde, I was only mentioning May, because HG is British and I am Dutch and this Brexit news is forced upon us for years now 🙂 The moment I wrote my comment to HG, May’s Brexit plea was going on.
            That’s all.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Margaret Thatcher, when asked about European partners (back when they were fewer in number than now) said something along these lines :-
            “The Germans are still guilt-ridden about the world wars, the French cannot be trusted, the Italians are only good for clothes, the Spanish are only good for food. The only countries similar to the UK are Denmark and the Netherlands and they are too small to help us.”
            I thought that might amuse you 2SF.

          5. 2SF says:

            Ha ha, good old Margaret. I bet you agreed with her 🙂
            Well you should hear what ‘Trump’ has to say about that small country of ours 🙂

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, not especially – there’s a grain of truth in it but she was of course being the provocative narcissist that she was. Not like me, though, I am a good chap as you well know!

          7. 2SF says:

            You’re the best 💋

          8. HG Tudor says:

            I know, but thank you nevertheless.

          9. Renarde says:

            Theresa ‘I’ve been spectacularly unfucked by the DWP’ May is still with us.

            Thanks for informing us (British) of the votes.

            Honestly, we had not one clue it was concerning this Brexit. Whatever that is?!

            Sounds like a supermarket own brand version of Wheatabix tbh.

          10. 2SF says:

            Renarde, I guess you are not very interested in politics, because the Brexit is on the news almost every day, even in my country 🙂

            Brexit = British Exit (from the European Union). The majority of British people voted for the exit, but I guess many people regretted it later, since they had no clue what they were voting for or could not foresee all the consequences.
            The no-confidence vote May survived this week was all about her Brexit deal.

            I can’t go further in to it, since it is about politics and not (so much) about narcissism, but if you’re interested just google May and Brexit and you could be reading for weeks 🙂

          11. HG Tudor says:

            I agree with your second paragraph.

          12. Renarde says:


            You mean there is a potential that we may exit Europe? Gosh, that sounds serious!!!

            Will I still be able to buy essential prosciutto in Waitrose??? What about the Reggiano?

            I’m really worried now. 🙁

          13. 2SF says:

            Don’t worry Renarde, it will all be available, I just can’t say what it will cost after the Brexit, but you better start saving some money to buy your Italian food.. or.. maybe even better… move to Italy 🙂

          14. Renarde says:

            Hmmm….That’s not a bad idea actually! People cant seem to actually tell where im from anyway so i’ll just slide right in!

          15. 2SF says:

            You’ll fit in right away, Italian men are very ‘slidy’ and ‘slippery’. They know how to suck-up really well 🙂

          16. 2SF says:

            Oh.. Renarde.. hope you don’t get that comment wrong, didn’t mean to say you suck-up or anything, I was only referring to the ‘sliding’.

      6. 2SF says:

        Renarde, with ref. to my comment of Jan. 19, 11.20:

        Looks like the comment I was referring to is missing. Never mind, it wasn’t important anyway.

    3. Aunt Clara says:

      S2F is pointing out the obvious that HG Tudor understood what he wrote. I am convinced he understood. His response is not an issue. It was indeed funny. It was a joke of which S2F is fully aware.

      S2F is the Captain Obvious of jokes. Second in command under Sergeant Apparent who is under General Overt. No shit Sherlock.

      S2F says she felt sorry for PI is also a lie. S2F feels nothing of that sort. Perfidious goblin!

      1. 2SF says:

        Aunt Clara, it’s 2SF not S2F. It means 2 Steps Forward. I was wondering what you think the reason was why I wrote that initial comment, if according to you I did not feel sorry for P.I.?
        Perfidious goblin, I had to look it up since I’m not English. Perfidious? Why would you say that? Did I cause you any harm or so on this blog? Who are you anyway? I have seen some nasty comments of you in the past. Are you here because you are angry and lonely and you just like to vent your anger here? It’s fine with me. I know what I am, I know that I am sincere in what I say, feel and write. So you can not harm me with your untruthful words. But if you need one to yell at, be my guest.

      2. Perfectly imperfect says:

        … huh.????

      3. Renarde says:

        Im sooo using ‘perfidious goblin’. I shall make a point of working it in a conversation today!

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Renarde, me too, and cheeky fuckers. I’m looking forward to the slightest opportunity!

          1. MB says:

            SP and Renarde, re “cheeky fucker” If I were to call somebody that here they would probably think it meant their butt was showing! Cheeky isn’t something we say here.

        2. 2SF says:

          Haha Renarde, I honestly laughed out loud, when I looked the word goblin up. Such a shame I can’t use it, because people probably don’t understand it here, although my boys might. I’ll just say it in Dutch to someone today: “Verraderlijke kabouter!” haha. Guess we should thank Aunt Clara for a good laugh.

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