Poll : What Are You?

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Let’s talk about you dear readers.

What are you?

What school of empath do you believe you belong to? Standard, Super, Contagion or Codependent?

Perhaps you are unsure? Maybe you feel you are empathic but you do not quite reach the status of empath? Maybe you feel you are a normal, with a selection of low empathic and low narcissistic traits?

What Cadre of empath are you (if you are an empath)? Saviour, Doormat, Magnet, Carrier or Geyser?

Perhaps you do not know or you feel you are on the cusp of two (maybe more) of these categories. You can have elements of different schools and cadres, but usually one will prevail with regard to the school and cadre.

Finally, are you a Dirty Empath (Of the Infidelity Variety) and/or a Dirty Empath who is a Marriage or Relationship Breaker?

You may choose all that are applicable to you. Thus is you identify as a Magnet Standard Empath who is a DE (IV) and and a DE (MB) you can choose all four.

If you want to know for sure, you can of course consult with me. Also see the various articles on the blog appertaining to the schools and cadres (to save you searching Contagion has not been published yet).

As always, do expand in the comment section with your thoughts and observations.

What are you?

View Results

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  1. Ooooh great poll HG! Im looking forward to reading others votes. Myself: Standard empath of carrier cadre, I’m pretty sure anyway.

  2. Ugh!! I’m dragging my feet on answering this one. I’m not even sure really, I’ll have to put some thought to it, but whatever the answer is I’m sure it will be slightly mortifying. It’s so hard to show the courage that you have shown Sir, but since it’s you who has asked I will give it a try.

  3. Magnet Empath, likely of the Super Empath school because of , for example, verystrong reactive synaesthesia. Dirty Empath; both Infidelity Variety and Marriage Breaker Variety. Although I can’t help but wonder if the last two do not also reflect a touch of narcissism…

    Or maybe I just don’t like to give up, physically or mentally.

    Thanks for the poll!

    1. CP, my “spider-sense” alerted me: did I hear “synesthesia”? What type? You mentioned reactive, do you mean mirror-touch? I am a synesthete too but mine is audio-visual. It can be great and it can be bothersome, depending on my mood and the audio stimulation. For example, I watched Bohemian Raphsody recently, I had a subliminal emotional experience and cried profusely. I also like listening to music while I walk to places for obvious reasons. I’d like to know more about yours!

      1. SP. my synaesthesia is absolutely audio-visual but it has other dimensions too. One of those being certain concepts evoking sensory reactions. For example: as a child I “sensed” that numbers and weekdays corresponded to certain colours. My concept of world history is a visual arc with certain events playing out like movies when you get close up. That pertains to my concept of personal history as well. Also, my memory’s much too good. Conversations and scenes are etched in place and they remain so.

        Reactive synaesthesia as I view it would be when focusing intently on someone and sensing their reactions and responses with all five senses. It’s like registering them, but the brain just goes haywire and translates that neurological response as, say an inner mental image of a flash lighting up someone’s eyes, or a minor electric jolt. And yes, of course I respond that way to music and art too. It’s when this response gets triggered by other people that the problems start.

        Specifically, that’s how The Narc gets to me. When that initial spark of interest causes me to focus (super focus?), my system just runs haywire. Out of control.

        Alright. I realise I may need to seriously consult with you, HG, in order to figure out the dynamics of this. To figure out how this keeps creating a pattern that is just so hard to break.

        1. Thanks for your response, CP. Yes, letters and numbers have the same effect on me. I don’t have any synesthesia from interacting with people other than seeing the color of their voices, though. I have a question for you… are you familiar with Rimbaud?

  4. If we book a consultation with you to find out what type of empath we are how exactly does that work? Would you just ask us questions?

  5. Oh i meant to add saviour empath as well…i feel the need to help others in the same situations and support people. Its something deep within. Even if its a simple supportive comment on facebook to someone whose having a rough time.
    Ive also been helping people on a health basis to become healthier and prevent diseases. Its something i feel passionate about!
    I do feel a responsibility to take what ive learned and share it to help others out there. Spread the knowledge. You cant save the world but my favorite quote is “be the change you want to see”. Make it happen by example and by doing. In my small way i try to do this. We live in a very narcissistic world and more and more empaths are the minority so its crucial empaths shine their light and show goodness out there! We are the beacons of light and truth. I think all empaths should be saviour empaths.

  6. Great poll and im eager to read everyones comments!
    I without a doubt see myself as a contagion. First and foremost im codependant. I know many wont agree and thats ok but i feel if you stay in an abusive dynamic you are codependant in some form with the narcissist. Even if you come and go in the relationship. So yes i feel im codependant but no not a doormat.
    I had explained in a comment a few days ago why i believe im a çontagion. Normally i dont like labels but when i read the description on this type of empath i was blown away bc it was me! Im very excited to read more on this type of empath as its written about. I always wondered why i was this way and felt like an oddball bc of it.
    I dont feel im a dirty empath bc its not in my nature to want to cheat. Based on circumstances that have arisen but do i crave or yearn to be with others? No. It was never my intent. I wouldve loved to have had all of it with my hubby but that didnt happen.
    So contagion and a codependant one.

    1. Lol FINALLY Someone who will admit it ! Good job. I ve noticed you are making some progress

      Good for you.

      I knew this poll was gonna tickle me with the avalanche of Super Empaths lol. Some may very well be but a I bet a large number are not. I have quite a few of those elements but I’m a Codependent and I do believe if you keep return you have some form of Codependency. Super Empath Super Nova whatever if you do it you are to some degree codependent that’s just what it is

      Healthy people do not keep returning to that crap they just don’t. If you continue to return, it’s because it’s filling a need.

      But good job CM about getting real about who you are that’s step 1 to a healthier sense of self

      1. Lori, I believe that I was codependent for awhile. In fact, I was very conscious of it and would even talk to him about it wondering what was wrong with me since I would never have put up with that behavior in anyone but him, I am not a caretaking type, and I don’t take my identity from other people. But I don’t believe I am at core a codependent – I believe my resting state is something else. Whether that is an SE, I am unsure (have not done a consult) but I can obviously take a lot of abuse while plotting my revenge and then delivering it (whether it worked or not I haven’t a clue but it freed me).

    2. You are quite right CM. This whole notion people have that they were just unlucky that the narc selected them will only keep them stuck or bring them another

      1. Hi lori…there is a certain well known person who believes this. They believe they were unlucky and targeted yet they stayed in the relationship for years getting emotionally and physically beaten down. They to this day wont look within to see why did i stay? What attracted me to them? Why did i allow this? And i dont buy its just bc of an empathetc nature no sorry bc anyone who has self worth and respect would not let someone repeatedly abuse them in such an outrageous way. Yet they claim they came from a happy healthy childhood and there was nothing wrong with them before meeting the narcissist. I dont believe this to be true. The narcissist found the crack in the armor and seeped in.

      2. A therapist once said “the minute I hear I had a happy healthy childhood. Completely normal. I know there’s probably a lot of work to do “ lol

        You always find people on these pages in complete denial. Sometimes it’s a function of where they are in the process and sometimes it’s just a function of them refusing to accept any responsibility because it would just dig up too many painful things that ignite shame in them. In fact for some, the mere idea that they may have had some role in their on own abuse just sets off intolerable amounts of shame

        1. I’m not in denial. I know I had a role in it and I am curious about that role. I even talked to MRN about my own insane behavior (and then flipped it at the end, so it was all about his insane behavior). But I do not think it was mainly a function of my basic personality. I think it was mainly a function of circumstances.

    3. Hi lori….i do freely admit to my codependancy and i dont say that to victim shame or label myself i say that after researching and finding out about narcissism but more importantly what it is about me that drew me to the narc.
      I think so many hate the term bc they feel it insinuates they are weak or fully dependant but im anything but weak. Ive been thru a whole lot in my lifetime and im very much independant in a lot of ways but i compare it to a narcissists codependancy theres something within my core that hasnt been filled and the narc fills it. What is it he fills and learning how to heal and find it within and in healthier ways is my mealticket to freedom.
      I see people post theyre super empaths yet they are still hung up on vengeance or interacting with their narc in some capacity. That is imo filling a need. They still want that interaction despite it being toxic.
      Ive said it before but i feel a super empath is one that knows and goes and even moreso helps others to do the same or supports others but that is of course my perspective on the term. Here it is used differently and i understand why.

  7. I am 100% Super Empath.. It pretty amazing HG, how you pegged so many different personality types to the letter! Tired of therapists who are cluess. Like having a drugged Monkey do my taxes,, clueless clueless,,, thanks for Your work.

    1. I don’t think therapists are clueless. Perhaps you haven’t had a decent one, but there are some that are quite good. Mine had me pegged right away.

      I am of the opinion that many of the classifications would fall under the umbrella of some degree and flavor of Codepebsency but that’s my opinion.

      You have to remember HG sees this from the Narcissistic perspective. A therapist may or may not.

    1. Shesaw, I know you said “Greater Empath” tongue in cheek, but I think there really is something to that. There are multiple levels of enlightenment and cognitive function in all humans. Some understand their “condition” more than others. And some are completely unaware.

      As for the unexpected introspection that has been brought about over this past year at HGU under the auspices of studying narcissism, I haven’t decided how I feel about that just yet. Some days I subscribe to the notion that “ignorance is bliss”. Other days, I am grateful to have the cognitive ability to digest the information provided (and that I have gone searching for on my own) and be able to be aware and apply it to myself.

      1. Hi MB, thank you for your response. Yes to the levels of understanding yourself. I am learning on a daily basis. I did not call myself a Greater Empath to indicate my level of awareness – I believe my awareness is only in the first stages of awakening, to be honest. I could as well have said ‘noob empath’, haha.
        To be able to pursue knowledge and to be forever learning is the greatest blessing of my life – I believe. To respond to your second paragraph, knowledge is to be digested in many ways. Like a good Chablis, it takes years to develop all the flavours + it takes a good and attentive master (yourself!) to bring about that one special wine which is good and rich and beautiful, but has the capacity to be dangerous too.

  8. Nobody wants to be normal because it’s supposed to be boring; everyone wants to be an empath of some sort because it means you are compassionate and caring; and if possible, super because it sounds special. I see how this reveals our narcissistic side, definitely the work of a master narcissist. I prefer to wait for you to tell me, you are the expert.

    1. I don’t know why people equate Super with special. I’ll tell you some of the reasons I don’t.

      Remember that it has been coined by a narcissist, and what do narcissists do? They abuse. When you read Super perhaps you should be reading: Super delicious for a narcissist to toy with, Super able to withstand higher levels of abuse, Super able to sustain the abuse over a long period of time perhaps due to their narcissistic traits being oblivious to more subtle forms of devaluation, Super fuel provider in the devaluation stage due to extra challenge fuel resulting from higher and numerous narcissistic traits coming to the fore. Super far fall of that pedestal when you’ve prided yourself in being so kick ass. Even in escape, because the Super has higher narcissistic traits they can stay absently involved with the narcissist longer by having their pride seek revenge tather than just cutting them loose.

      Not so Super now is it?

      We tend to read Super as good because in the empaths mind it is associated with good. Super is not always good. Sometimes Super just means extra, and being extra to a narcissist is not a good thing.

      Do not aspire to be Super. It is not an enviable position.

      1. NarcAngel
        Completely agree with you about the category “Super-empath.” I’ve always felt that HG coined that term because their characteristics seemed super to him – not super to the empath.

          1. HG, your amusement at the image of young Windstorm weilding a turkey baster is palpable.

          2. I read the article about your humor today in’Love and Loathed’. I thought of The Inseminator when I got to the part about you truly being amused and I smiled.

      2. NarcAngel ,

        Your comment makes a lot off sense to me ! I had to return and reread it again . Sometimes I catch myself doing it ! But the opposite wondering why I can’t be more SUPER kick ass !! than rather shut down . Your comments always seem really wise to me ! I enjoyed reading it . It changed my perspective . Much love …

          1. MB
            Totally greatest comic series ever! Thanks for the FarSide comic! That was a good one!

          2. WS , that was my kind of humor! I can’t take credit for sharing it though. That was Sweet P. I enjoyed the dry wit of Larson. I also find humor in turning the tables on humans. One of my favorites is the dog driving the car with the man in the back seat, head out the window!

          3. MB, WS, FarSide was one of the first cultural things I learned when I moved to the US and I fell in love immediately. That, and David Sedaris!

      3. Exactly my thoughts WS and NA. I do truly believe I am an empath and therefore comparisons do zip, nada, nothing for me, though I admit I love to be recognized as an individual.
        HG the narc says what he sees and it’s all just various shades and flavors of edible.

        I feel super is just as equally crazy as any category, I’m just more likely to react in a cutting manner than maintaining complete unaffected composure and certain things bug me. I also think I have certain “fuel” type desires sometimes and can get edgy.
        Who cares anyway, there’s so many people on here more intelligent, younger, educated, richer, classier, more beautiful. It’s not like I win some narc prize if I am (don’t know) but I do not want a narc relationship thank you. Just trying to figure stuff.

        HG what if someone does empath consult with you and they’re a narc? You just make one up?
        : P
        Or you be like “hey I’m all booked up this week, catchya later”.

        1. If they want to know what kind of empath they are and the answers demonstrate they are not an empath, I will state that the person is not an empath.

        2. Lol you are funny, nunya biz!
          But this line is perfect! :

          “”HG the narc says what he sees and it’s all just various shades and flavors of edible.””

          Haha.. so true!

      4. Btw, HG, when I say just shades of edible I hope you know I don’t mean at all to diminish the insight. I only mean from my point of view it looks different and I think it’s an important distinction. I think a lot about your brilliant way of organizing your perceptions, it’s unparalleled and I see new and different things every week.
        I’ve had a headache and my comments get stated more crankily.

      5. Dearest NarcAngel,
        I tend to agree on your most highlighted clever observations
        Mr Tudor has just snared one …. he will reap the rewards (fuel) either way.. it’s a win win for him long term

        The term shieldmaiden, female warrior, strong, independent, knows her enemy
        However, I feel our Norwegian nymph will need her “shield” for protection
        Excellent comment NarcAngel
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. Bubbles,

          I agree; NA’s comment is an excellent way to frame “super empath.”

          I keep thinking about my first impression of the term “shieldmaiden”…I know of the concept of the female warrior you speak of – but I didn’t know it had a proper term. So at first I just thought: “Oh..shieldmaiden…as in she will shield him from his creature.” But I suspect, if the relationship is to sustainable she may have to both: shield him from his creature and shield herself.

          1. Thank-you MB! It’s a doozy – and really poorly timed (I have to make legal related calls and my voice keeps giving out on the phone.) But I’ve been doing chicken noodle soup and loads of tea and huddling with a hot water bottle.
            I plan to treat myself with listening to HG’s BBC interview tonight!

          2. WhoCares, get better soon! Gosh, this cold weather is so bad for the flu virus…

        2. HG
          Maybe when you release The Cliff the Super numbers will fall off.

          I’m here all week folks……

      6. Dear Who Cares,
        Exactly !!!
        However …. she’s gonna need a bigger shield!
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      7. It is also interestingly seems to somehow be linked with some “Super “ intelligence as in above others. That is perpostetous. This has to do with emotional devolpment not necessarily intellectual but people will think what they want. I personally think some use it as a way to soothe a bruised self esteem and when you feel that low you want to feel super at something

      8. Contagion

        To the Codependent, winning means getting the Narc to behave or refrain from some offending behavior. In other words, control.

        1. Lori

          I understand this. I hold some strong traits from both the Codependent school and the Super Empath School.

          I can become controlling when I feel I am being controlled or pushed in a direction. If I commit that energy I use then is used in a different manner, to build upon. Get between what I have committed to and me is like getting between a mother bear and her cubs. I don’t give up easily. I can get viscous if the situation calls for it. My preference is peace and I do everything I can first to achieve this.

      9. When someone tries to tell me they are linked to something related to intelligence, particularly if they have been abused, for some reason I don’t assume that they are telling me I’m not equally so and prove they are not that thing and get ego offended, which is narcissistic I don’t care how codependent you repeatedly claim to be. And it’s stepping toward the edge of not empathic. I usually consider that intelligence can be tied to multiple things. I’m generally supportive and have not taken it personally because everything isn’t about or in comparison to myself been but frankly I’m sick of reading competitive knock down comments. If a person is saying they are super cuz they are a narc then they are, I mean there ARE some on here.

      10. I don’t think I’m a magnet (not sure because I’m unclear on the category), but my impression is THAT is the most, um….”magnetic” one.

        Frankly, I have not a shit ton of accolades or awards to my name but I’m a good mother and feeling person, intelligent and not too shabby in the sack. If I want to call myself super I fucking will.

        You are all super, bless everyone.

  9. I have given up on trying to figure out what I am. I see some of myself in all of the four cadres and the doormat empath. I also have a lot of codependent tendencies but not to the extent that your examples in Chained would be willing to go through or do for you. Also, when I hear or read that Codependents control, it’s just not me because I have zero interest in controlling other people’s behaviors except for my little kids. I am still confused as to what makes one a Standard vs a Super Empath. Somehow the knowledge that Super Empaths are rare makes me inclined to disqualify myself as such. I will eventually consult with you on this one.

    1. HG, how do you figure out what type of empath we are in the consultation? Do you gove us a questionnaire to answer?

  10. Great poll! Love digging into the granularity within each personality type.

    I am super empath, carrier cadre, dirty empath (infidelity).

    HG, seeing so many results on the dirty empath selection, I do believe you’re going to have to compile some more research on this type. Time to begin surveying more married targets….

    1. Yes, I am actually shocked at how many married targets are on here. At first I thought they were the exceptions but I am beginning to think they are the rule. I am not one but I have been in the past, though I am not sure that guy was a narc.

      1. SMH
        It’s scary but comforting in a way (for me). Before coming here I was so ashamed. The support groups I found were all IPPS who had been viciously discarded. I couldn’t tell my story of having been unfaithful to a good husband. It made me feel like I deserved the pain I was going through as karma for betraying my spouse.

        1. Joanne,

          As a single/separated IPSS to a married narc it was also hard for me to find any kind of support group. They were all IPPS’s talking about d-day (disclosure day etc) and I knew I would get no sympathy or insights from them. I never did find a mistress-of-a-narc recovery site – this is about the best place to land for all of us.

          By the way, I don’t know if anyone has mentioned Quasi to you or if you knew her when she was on here but she was in much the same situation as you. You might want to search on her name and read her posts. They could be helpful to you.

          1. Sweet of you to say HG (for you) and me too, MB. But we can be grateful that she came out the other side. A success story. I hope she is doing well.

          2. Search doesn’t return any results for Quasi 🙁 @Quasi if you’re seeing this, please come back. I’d love to hear your story!

          3. K can help here – she is our resident librarian. But I think she once said if you use Google search rather than searching from within the site, you will find the posts. Try ‘Quasi narcsite.’

          4. I agree SMH. There are a lot of us here! I’ve never been to any other support forums because I didn’t know it was even a “thing”. When I found out about the fuel matrix and HG explained it all, I felt so validated. It was real! I’m not crazy! It all made sense after several years of suffering alone with nobody to talk to and feeling guilty and deserving of my own broken heart that I had to hide from the world. I would also like to say that everybody here has been kind even though the situation I found myself in was “immoral” in the eyes of most. I take responsibility for the part I played. (Victim or volunteer? I was definitely a volunteer.). Although admittedly I didn’t know there was a game being played.

          5. Yes, MB. There is very little judgment here even though a lot of us were in ‘immoral’ situations, often through no fault of our own (I was both victim and volunteer). When I would try to talk to friends about it I would get well, you are in an affair, what do you expect? I KNEW there was something else going on that went way beyond a ‘normal’ affair but I suffered mostly in silence (well, my friends definitely thought I went on about it too much!). So very grateful to everyone here and to HG of course.

      2. Hi joanne and smh…there are many married targets im sure! Its a perfect scenerio for a narc bc they can have a primary and many secondaries or dls. They have their cake and eat it too. They also love that a married targets expectations are lower in regards to committment and they wont expect a formal relationship.
        My narc i suspect has all married secondaries. He doesnt have a primary and i can see why based on his personality. He doesnt want someone looking over his shoulder well he carries on with his network of marrieds. Also he is a huge committment phobe and lacks confidence as far as being in a formal relationship.
        He even told me flat out he is attracted to married women.
        On the flipside many marrieds are potential targets bc of unresolved martial issues. Its hard to face problems and feels so good having an escape or someone who takes you away from that even temporarily

        1. I guess so, Chihuahuamum, but I also wonder why I am targeted when I am single now (has happened twice in a row – narc and then someone more recently who is not a narc, but still…). Am I such a man magnet??!! Why don’t these guys find someone married when someone like me wants more attention than they are willing/able to give? Seems dumb. Plus, singles are more dangerous because they have less to lose should things go south. I see all of these women on here worried that narc will out them to their husbands. I don’t have that worry so I am free to seek any sort of revenge I care to seek 😃

          1. SMH,

            Revenge is best served cold 😈

            However…. It can have it’s drawbacks: hoovered by proxy 💣😝 (where’s that vomit emoji?!?!)

          2. EHMR, The hoovers come regardless, though they have lessened over the past year. If there is one thing I have learned (or tried to learn – not sure it has sunk in yet) it doesn’t matter what I do. No proxies because we do not know anyone in common.

        2. CM
          Yes to all of that. It’s eye opening for me as I really thought myself to be a corner case before coming here. But the ease of the target having lower expectations, the ability to be that “escape” that many bored married targets are looking for… It all makes sense.

          I believe my narc to have a whole bookcase full of SIPSSs as he seems to not be able to maintain a formal relationship beyond a couple of months. Not sure about the married variety though. I do think in the beginning I was a candidate for IPPS because he did a fair amount of pressuring me on where things stood with my husband during his love bombing phase.

          We really need a special forum for dirty empaths/married targets, it seems ;)

          1. Joanne,

            Speaking as IPSS, as you know, I think it is extremely helpful to have this mixed forum because there is nowhere else to get feedback from those embedded differently in the fuel matrix. We are all posting about triangles of one sort or another (narc + various fuel sources) and a lot is hidden. While we cannot get the narcs on here we do have HG and we can talk to each other. What is it like from those other locations on the fuel matrix? What was going on with IPPS while X was happening to me?

            We also (or at least I could) see the parallels between our situations and those of other fuel sources because narc behavior is narc behavior, right? Our experiences are much the same even if we are embedded differently and even if our personal contexts differ. There is still a lot I do not understand but I never would have gotten this far without all of the other commenters (and HG of course), and I find the similarities invaluable.

          2. SMH
            It’s so valuable to understand the role that each source plays in the fuel matrix, and how things shift. While it doesn’t make sense in our realities, reading the posts and comments helps form an understanding on the different positions, but similar experiences. Definitely insight that we could not get in any other place. And all of this combined strengthens logical thinking (of which I need a daily renewal).

      1. Bubbles
        Are you in an affair with a narc too? I’m sorry if you’ve mentioned this already…the comments are so hard to follow!

      2. Dearest Joanne,
        Please don’t apologise my lovely
        Heavens to Betsy …. God noooooooo….. I dread the thought, yuk yuk yuk ….he was smelly, short and not appealing whatsoever 🤢
        My comment …. “I’m married” – was tongue in cheek, most long timers know Mr Bubbles and myself …. we are a senior couple here ..haha
        I’m strictly a NISS but have been thru all the stages

        Yes, I find the comments hard to follow ….. still …. haha
        I can’t get into WordPress … it tells me I have to pay and won’t accept my password, so buggar it
        I treat it like you do a narc … after much frustration…. ditch it

        I came across this great quote…..

        If you focus on the hurt, you will continue to suffer.
        If you focus on the lesson, you will continue to grow

        Hugs to you precious
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      3. Dear Sweetest Perfection,
        Mazel tov to you too sweets
        I luv parties 🎉 I’ll be the hostess with the mostess
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. Come on Barbie, let’s go party! mm, I think this would fit another thread better wouldn’t it? I wish this blog were a hypertext. Bubbles, part-ay!

  11. Saviour co-dependent / magnet . But once in a while I feel like i’m not because i’m learning to say no and I feel really sad about this ..

  12. I’ve thought on this all day. Best I can classify myself…. (oh, and no on dsl and I’ve always known I was sensitive, and emotional, etc, and the way I view myself doesn’t particularly fit in your slots. I tried to give my views below.

    To be honest, I have seen myself in every category. From sultry snarky space chick to warrior, imp, and cuddle-muffin trying to get a wiggle on. (And everything in between). A blunt, loving, cheeky, stubborn, thoughtful, mouthy, wise, gullible, humble being.

    I’ve related to every single article and description. They ALL fit my life in a big way. I feel for each and every one of us. I can relate to everyone.

    So i checked them all. They all apply to me.  Looking forward to that last little article though! XO

    PS>>> well I tried to vote in all the schools and cadres, or however you categorize ours, and: you lied (WINK) it wouldn’t let me vote for more than four. So if you are counting, that’s my vote.

    Ciao 😘

    1. Except doormat. I won’t be anyone’s doormat. Though I’m sure I have *looked* like a doormat to some… if I’m aware…. HELL no, they can go!

  13. Is there something I can read about the cadres all together or should I search them individually?

    This is going to be very educational!

      1. Had started it, reminded to continue, so reading now…
        ugh, the sex thing. My instincts for “sex chemistry” are great. I haven’t been having sex though since I’ve been reading here, I feel defensive. I miss it. I don’t understand why narcs have to ruin everything. Ugh…been a little funky the last two days.

        And reading the beginning this victim narc that’s been around lately is getting on my nerves. I would never have considered him for even friendship considering his behavior but it doesn’t stop him from deploying his manipulations at me and everyone else he runs into.
        The hoovers are obnoxious. I think he’s given up on attempts to talk to me, the little manipulative shit.

      2. MB, I’m not getting notifications for some reason so I think I missing comments. I actually got distracted with “Chained” then plan to move to “sitting target”. I’m overwhelming myself with reading material. I want to be sure of my answer although I have a good idea because of a consultation I had with HG in July 2017. I learned more from that consultation reading it now than I did back then. I think timing is key to learning learning. I’m in a much better mindset now .

        I also got a chance to read your previous post describing your inner struggle. It’s hard for me to imagine you feel that way about yourself because I know you as confident, caring and supportive. It’s been a few months since you posted that. I hope you took Windstorms advise and kind words to heart. I find being here has become more than just figuring out the asshole narc, it’s become a place that has taught me about myself. Hopefully that is the same for you and you can find comfort in the fact that HER is just a false creation. I have no doubts you will find the tools needed to destroy that false sense of yourself.

        1. Thank you Mercy. I did not expect to learn this much about myself here either. The criticism, the shame and my feelings toward it all come from some of the same origins as that of the narcissist. For whatever reason, my development took another path. The profound shame of the failed, unlovable, worthless self has always been there and I’m not willing to risk staring it down. Covering it up and stuffing it down works most of the time. I know it is difficult to understand why I don’t want to at least try and heal. The short answer is, I don’t want to risk peeling the layers back and realizing that “nothing” is all that I am.

          1. MB word press is ruining my life. Sorry for the late response. I’m still not getting notifications.

            You are right it is difficult for me to understand how you feel this way about yourself but I do understand that we are complex and we are all fighting our own individual demons. I can’t fix you (apparently I’ve got the savior cadre in me ✔️) but I’m here for you to tell you how great you are! You are doing what is best for you and you may find that you’re peeling layers and don’t even realize it.

          2. Mercy, you are a sweetheart. Thank you for listening to me. Sometimes being heard is enough to turn a person’s day around. You are correct, everybody has emotional baggage that has to be addressed. The myriad of ways humans do so is quite fascinating.

      3. MB, as I said I’m reading Chained. I came across this “Their development has meant that the horrible, skulking creature has been brought into existence but they have been prevented from being granted the skill set to keep it in check. They have been denied the ability to garner fuel from others and create that prison of shards. The creature must be dealt with. They know that much and accordingly, they must seek the narcissist to give them what they were meant to be but could not be.”

        Is this what you mean about the creature and it coming from the same place the narcissist creature comes from?

        1. Yes and no. Chained is not where my aha moment happened where I realized I had a lost self lurking and tormenting me. That was in the passage that Oh K found for me. The passage you have copied here explains why the co-d is drawn to the protection of the narcissist’s construct. I have many co-d traits but don’t believe I am full spectrum. I am drawn to narcissists though like a moth to a flame and Sitting Target And Chained explained to me why.

      4. MB I have a very strong feeling you’d find just the opposite and any covering can only hide beauty. But your expressions are interesting and valuable, it’s a good process.

        I have begun to think about how narcissists and empaths maybe come from a similar place. I don’t quite get it.

        1. Nunya and Mercy, narcissism and co-dependency both stem from there being a lost self due to abuse or abandonment at a crucial point in a child’s development. It has also been shown that there is possible genetic pre-disposition as well.

          The feeling of rejection by the primary caregiver caused my authentic self to cease to exist. If I’m not important to you, then I cannot be important to me either.

          “Unworthy and unlovable, the self rejects the self, becoming an object of scorn and contempt. This causes toxic shame which is the feeling of being isolated and alone in a complete sense, haunted by a sense of weakness, failure, and emptiness.”

          The self must be escaped from so the authentic self then goes into hiding. The layers to keep it hidden become so intense, one loses awareness of who one really is. What great news! This means that the self-defense mechanism is doing its job. Here is the fork in the road where one either becomes narcissistic or co-dependent. The cause is the same. The layers to keep the flawed authentic self hidden are what differ.