Poll : What Are You?
Let’s talk about you dear readers.
What are you?
What school of empath do you believe you belong to? Standard, Super, Contagion or Codependent?
Perhaps you are unsure? Maybe you feel you are empathic but you do not quite reach the status of empath? Maybe you feel you are a normal, with a selection of low empathic and low narcissistic traits?
What Cadre of empath are you (if you are an empath)? Saviour, Doormat, Magnet, Carrier or Geyser?
Perhaps you do not know or you feel you are on the cusp of two (maybe more) of these categories. You can have elements of different schools and cadres, but usually one will prevail with regard to the school and cadre.
Finally, are you a Dirty Empath (Of the Infidelity Variety) and/or a Dirty Empath who is a Marriage or Relationship Breaker?
You may choose all that are applicable to you. Thus is you identify as a Magnet Standard Empath who is a DE (IV) and and a DE (MB) you can choose all four.
If you want to know for sure, you can of course consult with me. Also see the various articles on the blog appertaining to the schools and cadres (to save you searching Contagion has not been published yet).
As always, do expand in the comment section with your thoughts and observations.
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I view myself as a Magnet Empath.
Ooooh great poll HG! Im looking forward to reading others votes. Myself: Standard empath of carrier cadre, I’m pretty sure anyway.
Hi Star
Always good to see you. Hooe you are well.
Ugh!! I’m dragging my feet on answering this one. I’m not even sure really, I’ll have to put some thought to it, but whatever the answer is I’m sure it will be slightly mortifying. It’s so hard to show the courage that you have shown Sir, but since it’s you who has asked I will give it a try.
Magnet Empath, likely of the Super Empath school because of , for example, verystrong reactive synaesthesia. Dirty Empath; both Infidelity Variety and Marriage Breaker Variety. Although I can’t help but wonder if the last two do not also reflect a touch of narcissism…
Or maybe I just don’t like to give up, physically or mentally.
Thanks for the poll!
CP, my “spider-sense” alerted me: did I hear “synesthesia”? What type? You mentioned reactive, do you mean mirror-touch? I am a synesthete too but mine is audio-visual. It can be great and it can be bothersome, depending on my mood and the audio stimulation. For example, I watched Bohemian Raphsody recently, I had a subliminal emotional experience and cried profusely. I also like listening to music while I walk to places for obvious reasons. I’d like to know more about yours!
SP. my synaesthesia is absolutely audio-visual but it has other dimensions too. One of those being certain concepts evoking sensory reactions. For example: as a child I “sensed” that numbers and weekdays corresponded to certain colours. My concept of world history is a visual arc with certain events playing out like movies when you get close up. That pertains to my concept of personal history as well. Also, my memory’s much too good. Conversations and scenes are etched in place and they remain so.
Reactive synaesthesia as I view it would be when focusing intently on someone and sensing their reactions and responses with all five senses. It’s like registering them, but the brain just goes haywire and translates that neurological response as, say an inner mental image of a flash lighting up someone’s eyes, or a minor electric jolt. And yes, of course I respond that way to music and art too. It’s when this response gets triggered by other people that the problems start.
Specifically, that’s how The Narc gets to me. When that initial spark of interest causes me to focus (super focus?), my system just runs haywire. Out of control.
Alright. I realise I may need to seriously consult with you, HG, in order to figure out the dynamics of this. To figure out how this keeps creating a pattern that is just so hard to break.
Thanks for your response, CP. Yes, letters and numbers have the same effect on me. I don’t have any synesthesia from interacting with people other than seeing the color of their voices, though. I have a question for you… are you familiar with Rimbaud?
If we book a consultation with you to find out what type of empath we are how exactly does that work? Would you just ask us questions?
You are asked questions yes, either when we speak or through a questionnaire style.
Magnet super empath of dirty persuasion. It’s interesting that thats the majority.
Oh i meant to add saviour empath as well…i feel the need to help others in the same situations and support people. Its something deep within. Even if its a simple supportive comment on facebook to someone whose having a rough time.
Ive also been helping people on a health basis to become healthier and prevent diseases. Its something i feel passionate about!
I do feel a responsibility to take what ive learned and share it to help others out there. Spread the knowledge. You cant save the world but my favorite quote is “be the change you want to see”. Make it happen by example and by doing. In my small way i try to do this. We live in a very narcissistic world and more and more empaths are the minority so its crucial empaths shine their light and show goodness out there! We are the beacons of light and truth. I think all empaths should be saviour empaths.
great vision. I loved this/
Great poll and im eager to read everyones comments!
I without a doubt see myself as a contagion. First and foremost im codependant. I know many wont agree and thats ok but i feel if you stay in an abusive dynamic you are codependant in some form with the narcissist. Even if you come and go in the relationship. So yes i feel im codependant but no not a doormat.
I had explained in a comment a few days ago why i believe im a çontagion. Normally i dont like labels but when i read the description on this type of empath i was blown away bc it was me! Im very excited to read more on this type of empath as its written about. I always wondered why i was this way and felt like an oddball bc of it.
I dont feel im a dirty empath bc its not in my nature to want to cheat. Based on circumstances that have arisen but do i crave or yearn to be with others? No. It was never my intent. I wouldve loved to have had all of it with my hubby but that didnt happen.
So contagion and a codependant one.
Lol FINALLY Someone who will admit it ! Good job. I ve noticed you are making some progress
Good for you.
I knew this poll was gonna tickle me with the avalanche of Super Empaths lol. Some may very well be but a I bet a large number are not. I have quite a few of those elements but I’m a Codependent and I do believe if you keep return you have some form of Codependency. Super Empath Super Nova whatever if you do it you are to some degree codependent that’s just what it is
Healthy people do not keep returning to that crap they just don’t. If you continue to return, it’s because it’s filling a need.
But good job CM about getting real about who you are that’s step 1 to a healthier sense of self
Lori, I believe that I was codependent for awhile. In fact, I was very conscious of it and would even talk to him about it wondering what was wrong with me since I would never have put up with that behavior in anyone but him, I am not a caretaking type, and I don’t take my identity from other people. But I don’t believe I am at core a codependent – I believe my resting state is something else. Whether that is an SE, I am unsure (have not done a consult) but I can obviously take a lot of abuse while plotting my revenge and then delivering it (whether it worked or not I haven’t a clue but it freed me).
You are quite right CM. This whole notion people have that they were just unlucky that the narc selected them will only keep them stuck or bring them another
Hi lori…there is a certain well known person who believes this. They believe they were unlucky and targeted yet they stayed in the relationship for years getting emotionally and physically beaten down. They to this day wont look within to see why did i stay? What attracted me to them? Why did i allow this? And i dont buy its just bc of an empathetc nature no sorry bc anyone who has self worth and respect would not let someone repeatedly abuse them in such an outrageous way. Yet they claim they came from a happy healthy childhood and there was nothing wrong with them before meeting the narcissist. I dont believe this to be true. The narcissist found the crack in the armor and seeped in.
A therapist once said “the minute I hear I had a happy healthy childhood. Completely normal. I know there’s probably a lot of work to do “ lol
You always find people on these pages in complete denial. Sometimes it’s a function of where they are in the process and sometimes it’s just a function of them refusing to accept any responsibility because it would just dig up too many painful things that ignite shame in them. In fact for some, the mere idea that they may have had some role in their on own abuse just sets off intolerable amounts of shame
Valid observation, Lori.
I’m not in denial. I know I had a role in it and I am curious about that role. I even talked to MRN about my own insane behavior (and then flipped it at the end, so it was all about his insane behavior). But I do not think it was mainly a function of my basic personality. I think it was mainly a function of circumstances.
Hi lori….i do freely admit to my codependancy and i dont say that to victim shame or label myself i say that after researching and finding out about narcissism but more importantly what it is about me that drew me to the narc.
I think so many hate the term bc they feel it insinuates they are weak or fully dependant but im anything but weak. Ive been thru a whole lot in my lifetime and im very much independant in a lot of ways but i compare it to a narcissists codependancy theres something within my core that hasnt been filled and the narc fills it. What is it he fills and learning how to heal and find it within and in healthier ways is my mealticket to freedom.
I see people post theyre super empaths yet they are still hung up on vengeance or interacting with their narc in some capacity. That is imo filling a need. They still want that interaction despite it being toxic.
Ive said it before but i feel a super empath is one that knows and goes and even moreso helps others to do the same or supports others but that is of course my perspective on the term. Here it is used differently and i understand why.
I am 100% Super Empath.. It pretty amazing HG, how you pegged so many different personality types to the letter! Tired of therapists who are cluess. Like having a drugged Monkey do my taxes,, clueless clueless,,, thanks for Your work.
You are most welcome.
I don’t think therapists are clueless. Perhaps you haven’t had a decent one, but there are some that are quite good. Mine had me pegged right away.
I am of the opinion that many of the classifications would fall under the umbrella of some degree and flavor of Codepebsency but that’s my opinion.
You have to remember HG sees this from the Narcissistic perspective. A therapist may or may not.
Greater empath 👻
Shesaw
Haha. Forging your own path as some do. Very good.
NA, yes and embracing my inner devil, haha!
Shesaw, I know you said “Greater Empath” tongue in cheek, but I think there really is something to that. There are multiple levels of enlightenment and cognitive function in all humans. Some understand their “condition” more than others. And some are completely unaware.
As for the unexpected introspection that has been brought about over this past year at HGU under the auspices of studying narcissism, I haven’t decided how I feel about that just yet. Some days I subscribe to the notion that “ignorance is bliss”. Other days, I am grateful to have the cognitive ability to digest the information provided (and that I have gone searching for on my own) and be able to be aware and apply it to myself.
Hi MB, thank you for your response. Yes to the levels of understanding yourself. I am learning on a daily basis. I did not call myself a Greater Empath to indicate my level of awareness – I believe my awareness is only in the first stages of awakening, to be honest. I could as well have said ‘noob empath’, haha.
To be able to pursue knowledge and to be forever learning is the greatest blessing of my life – I believe. To respond to your second paragraph, knowledge is to be digested in many ways. Like a good Chablis, it takes years to develop all the flavours + it takes a good and attentive master (yourself!) to bring about that one special wine which is good and rich and beautiful, but has the capacity to be dangerous too.
That’s awesome.
Nobody wants to be normal because it’s supposed to be boring; everyone wants to be an empath of some sort because it means you are compassionate and caring; and if possible, super because it sounds special. I see how this reveals our narcissistic side, definitely the work of a master narcissist. I prefer to wait for you to tell me, you are the expert.
… during consultation, of course.
Very good.
I’ve been Praying my whole life to be normal HA!
I don’t know why people equate Super with special. I’ll tell you some of the reasons I don’t.
Remember that it has been coined by a narcissist, and what do narcissists do? They abuse. When you read Super perhaps you should be reading: Super delicious for a narcissist to toy with, Super able to withstand higher levels of abuse, Super able to sustain the abuse over a long period of time perhaps due to their narcissistic traits being oblivious to more subtle forms of devaluation, Super fuel provider in the devaluation stage due to extra challenge fuel resulting from higher and numerous narcissistic traits coming to the fore. Super far fall of that pedestal when you’ve prided yourself in being so kick ass. Even in escape, because the Super has higher narcissistic traits they can stay absently involved with the narcissist longer by having their pride seek revenge tather than just cutting them loose.
Not so Super now is it?
We tend to read Super as good because in the empaths mind it is associated with good. Super is not always good. Sometimes Super just means extra, and being extra to a narcissist is not a good thing.
Do not aspire to be Super. It is not an enviable position.
Narc Angel
Ha ha my desire to win is what gets me I to trouble……and I am dipping out again
NarcAngel
Completely agree with you about the category “Super-empath.” I’ve always felt that HG coined that term because their characteristics seemed super to him – not super to the empath.
Interesting observation, The Inseminator.
HG, your amusement at the image of young Windstorm weilding a turkey baster is palpable.
I’ve seen the photos MB, they are in the Vault of Venom.
I read the article about your humor today in’Love and Loathed’. I thought of The Inseminator when I got to the part about you truly being amused and I smiled.
NarcAngel ,
Your comment makes a lot off sense to me ! I had to return and reread it again . Sometimes I catch myself doing it ! But the opposite wondering why I can’t be more SUPER kick ass !! than rather shut down . Your comments always seem really wise to me ! I enjoyed reading it . It changed my perspective . Much love …
NA, I am definitely a Super. Super Stupid for having fallen for that idiot:
https://goo.gl/images/Jf24Qf
SP, The Far Side. Greatest. Ever.
MB
Totally greatest comic series ever! Thanks for the FarSide comic! That was a good one!
WS , that was my kind of humor! I can’t take credit for sharing it though. That was Sweet P. I enjoyed the dry wit of Larson. I also find humor in turning the tables on humans. One of my favorites is the dog driving the car with the man in the back seat, head out the window!
MB, WS, FarSide was one of the first cultural things I learned when I moved to the US and I fell in love immediately. That, and David Sedaris!
Sweet P
I prefer adventurous, resilient, and charitable over stupid lol.
Exactly my thoughts WS and NA. I do truly believe I am an empath and therefore comparisons do zip, nada, nothing for me, though I admit I love to be recognized as an individual.
HG the narc says what he sees and it’s all just various shades and flavors of edible.
I feel super is just as equally crazy as any category, I’m just more likely to react in a cutting manner than maintaining complete unaffected composure and certain things bug me. I also think I have certain “fuel” type desires sometimes and can get edgy.
Who cares anyway, there’s so many people on here more intelligent, younger, educated, richer, classier, more beautiful. It’s not like I win some narc prize if I am (don’t know) but I do not want a narc relationship thank you. Just trying to figure stuff.
HG what if someone does empath consult with you and they’re a narc? You just make one up?
: P
Or you be like “hey I’m all booked up this week, catchya later”.
If they want to know what kind of empath they are and the answers demonstrate they are not an empath, I will state that the person is not an empath.
Lol you are funny, nunya biz!
But this line is perfect! :
“”HG the narc says what he sees and it’s all just various shades and flavors of edible.””
Haha.. so true!
Ok wonderful, thanks so much HG.
Btw, HG, when I say just shades of edible I hope you know I don’t mean at all to diminish the insight. I only mean from my point of view it looks different and I think it’s an important distinction. I think a lot about your brilliant way of organizing your perceptions, it’s unparalleled and I see new and different things every week.
I’ve had a headache and my comments get stated more crankily.
Not at all and thank you for clarifying.
You nailed that right on the head, NarcAngel.
Dearest NarcAngel,
I tend to agree on your most highlighted clever observations
Mr Tudor has just snared one …. he will reap the rewards (fuel) either way.. it’s a win win for him long term
The term shieldmaiden, female warrior, strong, independent, knows her enemy
However, I feel our Norwegian nymph will need her “shield” for protection
Excellent comment NarcAngel
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles,
I agree; NA’s comment is an excellent way to frame “super empath.”
I keep thinking about my first impression of the term “shieldmaiden”…I know of the concept of the female warrior you speak of – but I didn’t know it had a proper term. So at first I just thought: “Oh..shieldmaiden…as in she will shield him from his creature.” But I suspect, if the relationship is to sustainable she may have to both: shield him from his creature and shield herself.
Ugh. I can’t be bothered with the typos (missing words). I have a wicked cold.
WhoCares, I hope you feel better soon!
Thank-you MB! It’s a doozy – and really poorly timed (I have to make legal related calls and my voice keeps giving out on the phone.) But I’ve been doing chicken noodle soup and loads of tea and huddling with a hot water bottle.
I plan to treat myself with listening to HG’s BBC interview tonight!
WhoCares, get better soon! Gosh, this cold weather is so bad for the flu virus…
Thank-you Sweetest Perfection!
Thank you Bubbles.
HG
Maybe when you release The Cliff the Super numbers will fall off.
I’m here all week folks……
I’ll do the gags thank you!
Dear Who Cares,
Exactly !!!
However …. she’s gonna need a bigger shield!
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
It is also interestingly seems to somehow be linked with some “Super “ intelligence as in above others. That is perpostetous. This has to do with emotional devolpment not necessarily intellectual but people will think what they want. I personally think some use it as a way to soothe a bruised self esteem and when you feel that low you want to feel super at something
Contagion
To the Codependent, winning means getting the Narc to behave or refrain from some offending behavior. In other words, control.
Lori
I understand this. I hold some strong traits from both the Codependent school and the Super Empath School.
I can become controlling when I feel I am being controlled or pushed in a direction. If I commit that energy I use then is used in a different manner, to build upon. Get between what I have committed to and me is like getting between a mother bear and her cubs. I don’t give up easily. I can get viscous if the situation calls for it. My preference is peace and I do everything I can first to achieve this.
When someone tries to tell me they are linked to something related to intelligence, particularly if they have been abused, for some reason I don’t assume that they are telling me I’m not equally so and prove they are not that thing and get ego offended, which is narcissistic I don’t care how codependent you repeatedly claim to be. And it’s stepping toward the edge of not empathic. I usually consider that intelligence can be tied to multiple things. I’m generally supportive and have not taken it personally because everything isn’t about or in comparison to myself been but frankly I’m sick of reading competitive knock down comments. If a person is saying they are super cuz they are a narc then they are, I mean there ARE some on here.
I don’t think I’m a magnet (not sure because I’m unclear on the category), but my impression is THAT is the most, um….”magnetic” one.
Frankly, I have not a shit ton of accolades or awards to my name but I’m a good mother and feeling person, intelligent and not too shabby in the sack. If I want to call myself super I fucking will.
You are all super, bless everyone.
I would love to hear normal. I do not like being an empath.
I have given up on trying to figure out what I am. I see some of myself in all of the four cadres and the doormat empath. I also have a lot of codependent tendencies but not to the extent that your examples in Chained would be willing to go through or do for you. Also, when I hear or read that Codependents control, it’s just not me because I have zero interest in controlling other people’s behaviors except for my little kids. I am still confused as to what makes one a Standard vs a Super Empath. Somehow the knowledge that Super Empaths are rare makes me inclined to disqualify myself as such. I will eventually consult with you on this one.
HG, how do you figure out what type of empath we are in the consultation? Do you gove us a questionnaire to answer?
I do.
Great poll! Love digging into the granularity within each personality type.
I am super empath, carrier cadre, dirty empath (infidelity).
HG, seeing so many results on the dirty empath selection, I do believe you’re going to have to compile some more research on this type. Time to begin surveying more married targets….
Yes, I am actually shocked at how many married targets are on here. At first I thought they were the exceptions but I am beginning to think they are the rule. I am not one but I have been in the past, though I am not sure that guy was a narc.
SMH
It’s scary but comforting in a way (for me). Before coming here I was so ashamed. The support groups I found were all IPPS who had been viciously discarded. I couldn’t tell my story of having been unfaithful to a good husband. It made me feel like I deserved the pain I was going through as karma for betraying my spouse.
Joanne,
As a single/separated IPSS to a married narc it was also hard for me to find any kind of support group. They were all IPPS’s talking about d-day (disclosure day etc) and I knew I would get no sympathy or insights from them. I never did find a mistress-of-a-narc recovery site – this is about the best place to land for all of us.
By the way, I don’t know if anyone has mentioned Quasi to you or if you knew her when she was on here but she was in much the same situation as you. You might want to search on her name and read her posts. They could be helpful to you.
SMH
I’ve not come across Quasi. I’ll definitely search her up. Thank you 💕
Quasi is a most thoughtful commenter.
I loved Quasi. I think of her often.
Sweet of you to say HG (for you) and me too, MB. But we can be grateful that she came out the other side. A success story. I hope she is doing well.
Search doesn’t return any results for Quasi 🙁 @Quasi if you’re seeing this, please come back. I’d love to hear your story!
K can help here – she is our resident librarian. But I think she once said if you use Google search rather than searching from within the site, you will find the posts. Try ‘Quasi narcsite.’
Yes! That worked perfectly, SMH. Thank you!
Good, Joanne! Hope it helps.
I agree SMH. There are a lot of us here! I’ve never been to any other support forums because I didn’t know it was even a “thing”. When I found out about the fuel matrix and HG explained it all, I felt so validated. It was real! I’m not crazy! It all made sense after several years of suffering alone with nobody to talk to and feeling guilty and deserving of my own broken heart that I had to hide from the world. I would also like to say that everybody here has been kind even though the situation I found myself in was “immoral” in the eyes of most. I take responsibility for the part I played. (Victim or volunteer? I was definitely a volunteer.). Although admittedly I didn’t know there was a game being played.
Yes, MB. There is very little judgment here even though a lot of us were in ‘immoral’ situations, often through no fault of our own (I was both victim and volunteer). When I would try to talk to friends about it I would get well, you are in an affair, what do you expect? I KNEW there was something else going on that went way beyond a ‘normal’ affair but I suffered mostly in silence (well, my friends definitely thought I went on about it too much!). So very grateful to everyone here and to HG of course.
Hi joanne and smh…there are many married targets im sure! Its a perfect scenerio for a narc bc they can have a primary and many secondaries or dls. They have their cake and eat it too. They also love that a married targets expectations are lower in regards to committment and they wont expect a formal relationship.
My narc i suspect has all married secondaries. He doesnt have a primary and i can see why based on his personality. He doesnt want someone looking over his shoulder well he carries on with his network of marrieds. Also he is a huge committment phobe and lacks confidence as far as being in a formal relationship.
He even told me flat out he is attracted to married women.
On the flipside many marrieds are potential targets bc of unresolved martial issues. Its hard to face problems and feels so good having an escape or someone who takes you away from that even temporarily
I guess so, Chihuahuamum, but I also wonder why I am targeted when I am single now (has happened twice in a row – narc and then someone more recently who is not a narc, but still…). Am I such a man magnet??!! Why don’t these guys find someone married when someone like me wants more attention than they are willing/able to give? Seems dumb. Plus, singles are more dangerous because they have less to lose should things go south. I see all of these women on here worried that narc will out them to their husbands. I don’t have that worry so I am free to seek any sort of revenge I care to seek 😃
SMH,
Revenge is best served cold 😈
However…. It can have it’s drawbacks: hoovered by proxy 💣😝 (where’s that vomit emoji?!?!)
EHMR, The hoovers come regardless, though they have lessened over the past year. If there is one thing I have learned (or tried to learn – not sure it has sunk in yet) it doesn’t matter what I do. No proxies because we do not know anyone in common.
CM
Yes to all of that. It’s eye opening for me as I really thought myself to be a corner case before coming here. But the ease of the target having lower expectations, the ability to be that “escape” that many bored married targets are looking for… It all makes sense.
I believe my narc to have a whole bookcase full of SIPSSs as he seems to not be able to maintain a formal relationship beyond a couple of months. Not sure about the married variety though. I do think in the beginning I was a candidate for IPPS because he did a fair amount of pressuring me on where things stood with my husband during his love bombing phase.
We really need a special forum for dirty empaths/married targets, it seems 😉
Joanne,
Speaking as IPSS, as you know, I think it is extremely helpful to have this mixed forum because there is nowhere else to get feedback from those embedded differently in the fuel matrix. We are all posting about triangles of one sort or another (narc + various fuel sources) and a lot is hidden. While we cannot get the narcs on here we do have HG and we can talk to each other. What is it like from those other locations on the fuel matrix? What was going on with IPPS while X was happening to me?
We also (or at least I could) see the parallels between our situations and those of other fuel sources because narc behavior is narc behavior, right? Our experiences are much the same even if we are embedded differently and even if our personal contexts differ. There is still a lot I do not understand but I never would have gotten this far without all of the other commenters (and HG of course), and I find the similarities invaluable.
SMH
It’s so valuable to understand the role that each source plays in the fuel matrix, and how things shift. While it doesn’t make sense in our realities, reading the posts and comments helps form an understanding on the different positions, but similar experiences. Definitely insight that we could not get in any other place. And all of this combined strengthens logical thinking (of which I need a daily renewal).
Dear Joanne,
I’m married… 👵🏻👴🏻
🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles
Are you in an affair with a narc too? I’m sorry if you’ve mentioned this already…the comments are so hard to follow!
Dear Bubbles, I’m married too! Mazel tov! We should definitely throw a dirty party.
Dearest Joanne,
Please don’t apologise my lovely
Heavens to Betsy …. God noooooooo….. I dread the thought, yuk yuk yuk ….he was smelly, short and not appealing whatsoever 🤢
My comment …. “I’m married” – was tongue in cheek, most long timers know Mr Bubbles and myself …. we are a senior couple here ..haha
I’m strictly a NISS but have been thru all the stages
Yes, I find the comments hard to follow ….. still …. haha
I can’t get into WordPress … it tells me I have to pay and won’t accept my password, so buggar it
I treat it like you do a narc … after much frustration…. ditch it
I came across this great quote…..
If you focus on the hurt, you will continue to suffer.
If you focus on the lesson, you will continue to grow
Hugs to you precious
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dear Sweetest Perfection,
Mazel tov to you too sweets
I luv parties 🎉 I’ll be the hostess with the mostess
🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Come on Barbie, let’s go party! mm, I think this would fit another thread better wouldn’t it? I wish this blog were a hypertext. Bubbles, part-ay!
I’m a dirty empath
Saviour co-dependent / magnet . But once in a while I feel like i’m not because i’m learning to say no and I feel really sad about this ..
I’ve thought on this all day. Best I can classify myself…. (oh, and no on dsl and I’ve always known I was sensitive, and emotional, etc, and the way I view myself doesn’t particularly fit in your slots. I tried to give my views below.
L-🌼
To be honest, I have seen myself in every category. From sultry snarky space chick to warrior, imp, and cuddle-muffin trying to get a wiggle on. (And everything in between). A blunt, loving, cheeky, stubborn, thoughtful, mouthy, wise, gullible, humble being.
I’ve related to every single article and description. They ALL fit my life in a big way. I feel for each and every one of us. I can relate to everyone.
So i checked them all. They all apply to me. Looking forward to that last little article though! XO
PS>>> well I tried to vote in all the schools and cadres, or however you categorize ours, and: you lied (WINK) it wouldn’t let me vote for more than four. So if you are counting, that’s my vote.
Ciao 😘
Except doormat. I won’t be anyone’s doormat. Though I’m sure I have *looked* like a doormat to some… if I’m aware…. HELL no, they can go!
Is there something I can read about the cadres all together or should I search them individually?
This is going to be very educational!
There are separate articles Mercy (save the Contagion which has not been published yet).
Thank you. Ive been reading, the cadres are hard decide on one
Sitting Target explains a lot about which empath you are, doesn’t it?
It does.
Mercy, have you read ‘Sitting Target’ yet?
Had started it, reminded to continue, so reading now…
ugh, the sex thing. My instincts for “sex chemistry” are great. I haven’t been having sex though since I’ve been reading here, I feel defensive. I miss it. I don’t understand why narcs have to ruin everything. Ugh…been a little funky the last two days.
And reading the beginning this victim narc that’s been around lately is getting on my nerves. I would never have considered him for even friendship considering his behavior but it doesn’t stop him from deploying his manipulations at me and everyone else he runs into.
The hoovers are obnoxious. I think he’s given up on attempts to talk to me, the little manipulative shit.
No, I did read the whole thing before.
Time for another one : )
I have not. I jus ordered it. Thank you!
Mercy, that’s a good one! Well…they’re all good! But that is fundamental reading.
MB, I’m not getting notifications for some reason so I think I missing comments. I actually got distracted with “Chained” then plan to move to “sitting target”. I’m overwhelming myself with reading material. I want to be sure of my answer although I have a good idea because of a consultation I had with HG in July 2017. I learned more from that consultation reading it now than I did back then. I think timing is key to learning learning. I’m in a much better mindset now .
I also got a chance to read your previous post describing your inner struggle. It’s hard for me to imagine you feel that way about yourself because I know you as confident, caring and supportive. It’s been a few months since you posted that. I hope you took Windstorms advise and kind words to heart. I find being here has become more than just figuring out the asshole narc, it’s become a place that has taught me about myself. Hopefully that is the same for you and you can find comfort in the fact that HER is just a false creation. I have no doubts you will find the tools needed to destroy that false sense of yourself.
Thank you Mercy. I did not expect to learn this much about myself here either. The criticism, the shame and my feelings toward it all come from some of the same origins as that of the narcissist. For whatever reason, my development took another path. The profound shame of the failed, unlovable, worthless self has always been there and I’m not willing to risk staring it down. Covering it up and stuffing it down works most of the time. I know it is difficult to understand why I don’t want to at least try and heal. The short answer is, I don’t want to risk peeling the layers back and realizing that “nothing” is all that I am.
MB word press is ruining my life. Sorry for the late response. I’m still not getting notifications.
You are right it is difficult for me to understand how you feel this way about yourself but I do understand that we are complex and we are all fighting our own individual demons. I can’t fix you (apparently I’ve got the savior cadre in me ✔️) but I’m here for you to tell you how great you are! You are doing what is best for you and you may find that you’re peeling layers and don’t even realize it.
Mercy, you are a sweetheart. Thank you for listening to me. Sometimes being heard is enough to turn a person’s day around. You are correct, everybody has emotional baggage that has to be addressed. The myriad of ways humans do so is quite fascinating.
MB, as I said I’m reading Chained. I came across this “Their development has meant that the horrible, skulking creature has been brought into existence but they have been prevented from being granted the skill set to keep it in check. They have been denied the ability to garner fuel from others and create that prison of shards. The creature must be dealt with. They know that much and accordingly, they must seek the narcissist to give them what they were meant to be but could not be.”
Is this what you mean about the creature and it coming from the same place the narcissist creature comes from?
Yes and no. Chained is not where my aha moment happened where I realized I had a lost self lurking and tormenting me. That was in the passage that Oh K found for me. The passage you have copied here explains why the co-d is drawn to the protection of the narcissist’s construct. I have many co-d traits but don’t believe I am full spectrum. I am drawn to narcissists though like a moth to a flame and Sitting Target And Chained explained to me why.
MB I have a very strong feeling you’d find just the opposite and any covering can only hide beauty. But your expressions are interesting and valuable, it’s a good process.
I have begun to think about how narcissists and empaths maybe come from a similar place. I don’t quite get it.
Nunya and Mercy, narcissism and co-dependency both stem from there being a lost self due to abuse or abandonment at a crucial point in a child’s development. It has also been shown that there is possible genetic pre-disposition as well.
The feeling of rejection by the primary caregiver caused my authentic self to cease to exist. If I’m not important to you, then I cannot be important to me either.
“Unworthy and unlovable, the self rejects the self, becoming an object of scorn and contempt. This causes toxic shame which is the feeling of being isolated and alone in a complete sense, haunted by a sense of weakness, failure, and emptiness.”
The self must be escaped from so the authentic self then goes into hiding. The layers to keep it hidden become so intense, one loses awareness of who one really is. What great news! This means that the self-defense mechanism is doing its job. Here is the fork in the road where one either becomes narcissistic or co-dependent. The cause is the same. The layers to keep the flawed authentic self hidden are what differ.
Perfect, MB. Thank you that fills some gaps for me. Huge.
Nunya, I am by no means saying I am correct. These are things that I have learned from HGs work and from other sources since I’ve been here. I tend to try not to dig too deep because I get depressed when I do. That is how I know it is not good for me to do so. Onward and upward! Wallowing is unproductive and gets me stuck.
I understand what you are saying MB, but I have been somewhat following your thread about self-esteem and all that, the long one and I can’t jump in over there because it’s too big for me. But it seems to me you are kind of breaking things down to look at and I know for myself I make some progress doing that in spurts (with breaks). And by the way, the ability to assimilate, tie together and understand information is a hallmark of intelligence, imo, that you certainly have and is helpful to me, so thank you. I still need to look further into this topic “lost self”. I want to say something about lost self, I’ll post another comment.
Nunya, I find that I need to take breaks too. I get depressed when I contemplate that shameful part of myself. It’s very difficult.
I relate a lot to what you are describing because I feel I’ve had a constant battle to have my “self” accepted. I am very generous and giving, but sometimes selfish, etc too I see that clearly. I noticed on the other thread you mentioned a perceived inability to get along with women. I lost track of where that went, but I wanted to mention that I have felt some difficulty in that area in my life as well but as I’ve really gotten to know myself very well over the years I’ve realized that that’s not the issue at all. My true self loves women very much, gets along with them great and feels kindness and support for women very easily. The problem for me is that I repeatedly attract dominance behaviors from narcissists, including women. I have to revisit the concept of magnet actually because it is so repetitively true. I keep having the same dynamic over and over wherein a person needs help and support and is in some state of unease and they latch on to me extremely quickly when I am just naturally supportive about it- and I am good at helping a person see the best sides of themselves, it comes easily to me. I think I do it with a more normal struggling person and it turns out well but then someone with narc traits will start attaching to me further right away and I have difficulty pushing away and at that point it doesn’t quite seem boundary crossing yet. Then as they gain confidence in my support they start to feel their way into my weak moments (I have them sporadically) and use them as springboards to take me over and gain control. It’s not my imagination it’s a repeated issue and I am determined to figure it out. I think what I need to do is simply state my boundaries, drop the obligation, and keep the freedom aspects of my life. I think that is the answer and I feel optimistic about it.
So I am trying to understand. Freedom is so important to me I resent dominance (jealousy/possession) maneuvers greatly and I don’t believe I seek that out entirely because I get such a feeling of peace when someone recognizes me as a person and makes gestures that go out of their way to advance MY best interest rather than theirs while making me invisible- and it seems sooo strong and beautiful to me. Sometimes though it seems to me that my behavior almost creates situational narcissism, so is attractive to that sort of person. I exceptionally love people who feel that keeping their own boundaries does not have to mean taking something away from others. I give and acts of sheer generosity from someone while maintaining their own self at the same time impress the hell out of me. I just frequently feel like people want to cause others to drown so they can save them and it is so odd for me to watch all over the place I get distraught. But what you are saying about the “self” I think I have an subtle internal tendency to set myself aside when helping someone and a lot of people have an instinct that keeping their own space means denying or taking from someone else and my “self” gets negated by them- when it really doesn’t mean that at all, many resources are unlimited (love, intellect, joy). I’m getting better at things and more direct in declaring boundaries. And you said about getting along better with men, another problem is that I tend to be sexually submissive so that plays into the whole thing, it’s totally connected. Just I find people like to take a foot when given an inch and I end up feeling disappointed. I love sexual dominant behaviors, which may be a contradiction, but I hate having my needs blacked out.
Just trying to process my thoughts, because it’s an ongoing thing.
Nunya, it sounds like you experience some of the same things I do. I tend to listen and want to help people with things too and don’t try to set boundaries until they are completely overrun. Then I feel that I’m creating conflict if I try to push back. It’s not that I have a repeated problem of getting along with women. I get along with almost everybody. Women are just more difficult for me to read and I have run into some that put me down to make themselves feel or look better. Men too. Maybe they were narcissists and I of course didn’t recognize them as such. As a general rule, I find male energy more comfortable in my space. Maybe it’s because I live in a house of all men and I’ve always worked with mostly men. You get comfortable with what you know, right?
nunya biz
MB mentioned it on the thread Stolen Love, if that helps.
Thanks k,
I lose track and can’t even remember where my own comments are except when I get into narcsite comment mode for a couple days. : )
My pleasure nunya biz
There are a lot of comments and it can get quite overwhelming at times.
Yeah MB, thanks, that is what I mean. It’s confusing and I end up trying to figure it out because I wind up pissed off. Especially sometimes I’ll say specifically I have a problem and what and it’s viewed as optional. Anyway, thanks for listening, I’m trying to figure the healthiest ways to balance.
NunyaBiz and MB,
I can totally relate to what you said about girlfriends. I was looking at the description of the magnet empath and I see myself in a lot of those descriptions with my girlfriends. I go out of my way to boost them up because the thought of them being lifted up makes me happy. I do not mind sharing the spotlight, but often find that my girlfriend that I have boosted up and shared the spotlight with takes the whole spotlight and kicks me out of the stage. This tend to happen a lot when so was still working. I will be going back to work this year when my son starts going to school and my daughter old enough to be in daycare everyday for whole days and this is slightly worrisome. This is why the bar site has been a blessing to me because now I am truly aware that there are people who have traits where they are wired to always take. I would be having a lot of fun narc-spotting when I’m back out there in the workplace. 😊
With men, it is awkward for me because I am married and so don’t want my husband to feel jealous. So I don’t have male friends except for the husbands of my girlfriends whom I never do anything alone with. Speaking of girlfriends too, I have three remaining girlfriends here in the US. They all happen to be immigrants like me, two Mexicans and one Filipino. But I think that I just have more things in common with them and I have a real connection and they also have narcissistic traits but not the type that competes with me. I am starting to see and figure out what type of personalities work with mine. So I am excited to go back to work and meet more good friends. Not the girlfriends that I just fired for being too lame with my birthdays. 😊
But NunyaBiz, I also relate to what you said about our own behaviors seem to create such an unhealthy dynamic. I am working on that with myself too. I had an awakening when I have read the doormat article. I am not entirely a doormat, I actually would never describe myself as weak, but I have a lot of empathic traits that expose me to being possibly treated as a doormat by someone who will take that opportunity.
MP, you definitely came to mind when I was typing because of your “birthday group” (the concept sends chilling waves of terror through my soul : P ).
I do feel like whenever it happens the woman starts to alter her behavior toward mine and eats up my point of view (I am pretty transparent and sharing about my worldview and observations) and then after a time starts to congratulate herself nonstop on everything she can and then starts to almost not see me like I don’t exist. It’s very strange. Plus there later are insinuations that I am selfish if I need or deny something and blatant maneuvers to start to wash my individual choice and identity into the background. I noticed in this type of situation there is a “switch” from listening to everything I say to then saying it themselves and washing me out.
NunyaBiz!
When you say eats up your point of view, do you mean contradicts your point of view? Like being negative and contradictory just to be dismissive?
“Blatant maneuvers to wash your individual choice and identity into the background”. I think I have experienced that from the narcs that I encountered. I like the way you described it.
“Switch from listening to you to saying it themselves” that happens to me sometimes too and it can be frustrating when it happens it the workplace. It’s like your ideas are stolen and they get the acknowledgement from it. But it also happens in social situations. It would be nice that they don’t wash you off into the background when they were actually inspired by the ideas that came from you. I totally understand how that would be very annoying and bothersome.
Oh MP! I never even saw your response here. So sorry.
I’ve been a little crazy lately and working on some things.
I think yeah, you are saying what I mean. Like with most people it’s fine we talk and help each other. With a narcissistic female there is sometimes a tendency that they would mirror some things and then those things would get used against me. For example I had a woman take literally some business ideas I suggested, use them specifically, then try to hire me and after I’d discussed something personal with her she told me that I was too emotional. She never thanked or complimented me for the ideas that were clearly mine, she just acted like she was the best and should be my boss now. Obviously we are not friends.
Another woman I talked about a mental health issue I’d had in the past due to a very stressful situation and later when I wouldn’t do what she wanted she told me that I was having that very mental health issue.
I meant I talk a lot when I’m being open so that sort of feeds into the whole thing.
With one of my girlfriends we share advice and opinion with each other a lot but I don’t feel like she’s absorbing things I say and then flipping stuff around.
I just mention that stuff because I normally wouldn’t see someone doing something like that until later on and I would feel trapped into situations and surprised before reading that it’s all the same thing
and how to see it.
So just doing boundaries sooner seems more workable, I used to have this thought like…well I’m a trusting person and if that person is not worth trusting that is their problem. And like MB was mentioning there can be point in the relationship where things feel like causing conflict. For me I noticed small changes in boundary setting have to do with just being on better alert for signs of narcissism along with small things like not answering the phone or being less responsive mostly because a narcissist is less likely pursue that and especially less likely to pursue lower ET indications. Not feeling like I have more time and energy to give than other people do because I don’t and when I give it I want to make sure the person appreciates it.
I hope you are doing well, MP.
I’m not sure . I’m pretty sure I’m super ..;-). I know I can be dirty …was kinda …I was followed home from a bar …but , my narc doesn’t believe the truth. I’m dirty in his eyes ..
But as an empath, which I am for sure …I can relate and be all the cadres …and now use some narc qualities for the good / better against my narc at times .
1. Super Empath. I feel I identify strongest with this school mainly because I am also an INFJ and am known for the “door slam”. I have never had issue with cutting out all but 2 toxic narcissistic people from my life and didn’t know that was “NO CONTACT”. That being said, the remaining two never fail to offer up conflicting criticisms of me A. being a people pleaser and B.being cold w hen I don’t give into their demands.
2. Carrier cadre. I get things done. I don’t moan about it. My competence and reliability do more for me than a smear campaign can ever do for a narcissist.
3. Dirty empath infidelity variety. I would never even be a Tudor devotee if not for this contradictory trait in myself. Only one affair ever–and with the applicable MMRN who’s behavior sent me here, which goes against my core values and bothers me to this day.
At the end of the day, Tudor taught me more valuable lessons about myself and the things I can control.
Cheers and thanks for the poll.
I am INFJ as well and have done the door slam. Before knowing about narcissism, I instinctively knew I had to be rid of them.
Learning my Enneagram allowed me to learn a lot about myself. I am 4w5 so when I am healthy I am more matter of fact and principled and get shit done. (In Enneaspeak this is called integrating to Type 1.)
When unhealthy I become overly apologetic, wanting attention, validation, needy and overly giving. (What is called disintegrating to Type 2.)
It’s not something I necessarily live my life by, but I found it helpful in terms of a guide and tool for growth.
My guess for empath would be Contagion Geyser.
Bibi – also I am INFJ – I would suspect there would be many here.
I’m an ENFP, I know because the narc made me take it to tell me (obviously right after knowing my results) that we were the exact same. Ha ha ha. Sigh, what a gullible person I was.
SP, I asked Narc to take it. Surprisingly he did and sent me the results. I need to see if I can find that email. I think it may have gotten purged in the Exorcism. Probably all lies anyway! I was trying to figure him out. Turns out, only HG could help me with that which came a few years later.
I am an ENFJ apparently, but I have no idea what that means. I know I am extroverted – no need for a test to tell me that!
Bibi
Your talking about your test results made me curious, so I looked up and took both tests to see what I am. On the Briggs-Meyer, thé only certain thing is the “I”. I’m introverted (and boy am I!). The other three were a wash being, “marginal or no preference.” Anybody else get that kind of result?
On the enneagram the descriptors on my results concluded:
I am a skeptical, artistic peacemaker who is equally rational & idealistic, caring, adaptable, perceptive and intuitive, and who is neither aggressive nor productive. Ha, ha! No surprise there!
Sort of fun and affirming to take the tests. It is pleasing to have the results line up well with my self-image. Thanks for mentioning the tests!
Bibi, you had put up a link previously right? It is $12 for test I think? I want to take it later today.
WS, yes the sliding scale for each locus is interesting and I am less introverted than you, mine looks the other way around. My I/E is close enough to the middle I’m not exceptionally either. I look to INFP/ENFP and my Intuition, Feeling, Perception are all on the extreme end, which leaves little room for thinking, judging tools. Of course I do those too though. I think it’s cool you are a balance, I see it as tools for organizing information.
SP and NB, I’m an ENFP as well! They say that it’s the most introverted of all extroverts. Sometimes I become ENTP but most of the time it’s ENFP.
Guys:
Enneagram Tests: There are multiple FREE ones online. I suggest taking one or two and see if you agree with the results. Mistyping is very common. So be sure to read them!
Nunya–no need to pay $12.
Windstorm–your result sounds like Type 9, The Peacemaker.
Basically 234 are the heart types
567 are the head types
891 are the instinct types
The test can give real depth into understanding how you react under stress, and then there are various levels of health.
And then your ‘wing’ is that number your type is next to. As example, I am a 4w5.
https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test
https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/classictest
https://www.9types.com/rheti/index.php
Here is a summary of the Types: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/
It’s important to answer as honestly as possible, so I had to admit that I feel envy and some not so nice things. My main insecurity is feeling defective and ‘less than’ and needing to be different from others, yet this difference can cause feelings of isolation and self-pity. Ex: ‘Why doesn’t anyone understand me?’
MBTI determines cognitive functioning but the Enneagram goes deeper into your neuroses and fears.
I’m obsessed with MBTI 🙂
I’m INFP.
My Enneagram is Type 2: The Helper.
I think I’m Codependent Geyser type but I need to find out from an objective source: HG Tudor.
On Empath Facebook groups most are INFJ, and also INFP/ENFP/ENFJ.
Interesting, because INFJ is only 1-2% of the population!
My closest friends are:
INFP: Geyser type
ISFP: Geyser type
INFJ: Geyser type
I wonder HG’s MBTI type. I think INTP.
SP,
It’s also possible that the narc is really ENFP. I have read that ENFPs are empathic but ENFPs can be narcissistic too and also I have read that narcissists like to mirror the personality of ENFPs. I think out of the three schools, I bet the Mid-Rangers would be the most likely to try to mirror or imitate ENFPs. There’s a lot of ENFPs in Hollywood and they are usually highly narcissistic.
Haha…this is the part where he calls us all narcissists!
Ha ha, who me? Never!
Twisted Heart, I was surprised there was no option for narcissist.
Pointless, SMH. The only ones who would know would be Greaters and would not respond. Lesser and Mid-Range do not recognise what they are. I suppose the odd confused normal or empath might make the choice, but they will not be, so it is a redundant choice really.
Airtight logic as always, HG. I guess this exchange confirms that I am not a narc.
HG, would you ever consider writing an article about Normals?
Certainly.
Bibi
That’s a great idea because I can’t figure my normals out, however, I have no problem understanding my narcissists.
This might be a duplicate comment, the first one disappeared.
Super Saviour Empath really resonates with me now. My mantra is Do No Harm But Take No Shit. My self righteous indignation is one of my more annoying qualities but I always try to stand up for the injustices in the world. I wasn’t always this way though.
The man I was with in my mid 20’s was definitely a narcissist. Though I didn’t realize this until about a month ago when I discovered this website. I thought he was one of a kind but now I know you guys are a dime a dozen.
At that stage in my life I was a codependent, doormat, dirty empath with zero boundaries. He was 11 years older than me, lived in another country and was so charming and funny. He would fly to see me and whisk me away to the mountains. He called everyday and wrote the most romantic letters and sent love songs. This went on for 2 years. I was his secondary source and I got pregnant. I was okay with all of it because I believed once we’re finally together I would take care of him and he will be at peace and have the family he always wanted. Needless to say that never happened.
Fast Forward 15 years later…
The narc that I recently had the privilege of encountering was much different. I seen the red flags all along and would call him on it and he would kind of laugh it off. His manipulation tactics were apparent but like nothing I had ever seen before. Everything felt like a test. My friends would tell me that I was reading too much into it and he seemed like a really good guy. I guess I didn’t trust my own judgement. The sex was amazing (more our energy together than the actual technique) and my anxiety level was so high that the sex became my elixir, it was the only thing that soothed me and I couldn’t get enough. He was sweet, sexy, smart and humble but outwardly cruel at the same time. I was so confused.
It was a short lived affair but the way it all came to a head in the end I would definitely say I went Supernova on his ass. I still had no idea what a narcissistic psychopath was but somehow my soul knew and I went completely on instinct. It was quite entertaining. I’m thinking of writing a graphic novel about it. Dedicated to HG Tudor of course.
So I wonder if our constitution changes depending on the type of narcissist we get mixed up with? Or maybe we all just adapt to our surroundings in order to survive, narcs included. It’s rough out here!
Hi HG 🙂
I think I am codependent because I cling to a narcissist/psychopath and don’t know myself well. But I would like to become a standard empath.
I think I’m Geyser because I value love about all else. But I also relate to carrier (being helpful) and magnet (giving hope).
I love how you define empaths, it has given me a way of understanding myself and put a positive spin on my experience. You are so insightful!
I am also like the Doormat but that doesn’t sound very flattering 🙁
Whitney, interesting you say that you think you’re a coD but want to become a standard. HG, narcissists don’t change schools over time. Empaths don’t either, correct?
Hi MB, yes I wonder if Empaths can change school?
With age I’ve become much better.
Most of my self understanding came from being in an abusive relationship, ironically. And then reading HG’s wonderful and insightful classifications of human behaviour!
Maybe self understanding and identity can help with codependency.
No.
What!? Empaths can’t change school?
Guess I’m destined to remain a little bit cunt ry and a little bit rock n roll then.
Hi Whitney, HG says no. Empaths can’t change school. One can always increase understanding and awareness. Exhibit A: HG Tudor. There is no preferred school of empath or one better than another. Being an empath is a special status in itself. We are all exotic creatures.
And I would like to shout from the rooftop of my dorm here at HGU, “codependent doesn’t mean stupid or one who has low cognitive function!”
Read ‘Chained’ for more details.
I’m sad HG said No.
I’ll book a consultation to see if I’m codependent or a more glamorous type.
And will read more of HG’s books ☺ Like “Chained – the narcissist’s codependent”
Btw HG I don’t think the results are accurate. People choose what sounds best: Magnet Super Empath.
If you named Geyser differently it would be more popular.
I can see your point but ultimately it is more an exercise in making people think, discuss and articulate. An individual cannot objectively ascribe a school and cadre to themselves – they may still get it right, but it needs to come from an objective position – namely me.
Whitney, no type is more “glamorous” than any other. The point is not to have a label to wear like a badge. It is to let you know how your particular traits will affect your relationships with other people. Namely narcissists. My badge says MB and has a unicorn on it and lotsa glitter!
I’m super excited about it HG cuz it’s fun.
Yes it is an exciting exercise. Good for victims to focus on themselves instead of their Narcs.
All of your work is genius but maybe this is the most impactful.
HG is a hero!
Thank you.
Whitney
I think it does get a bit better with age and awareness but I am of the opinion that you are not “cured “ of it anymore than a Narc is. You just learn to alter your behavior some through awareness. I find that I do think a little more before I react now. I wouldn’t say I do that every time but more than I used to
Fascinating poll, HG! I look forward to seeing how it fleshes out with more responses.
I selected Standard, Geyser, Dirty Empath (Infidelity)
I don’t actually know if I’m a normal with some empathic traits as well as narc ones, or if I’m an empath with some narc traits. I think Geyser fits better than the other cadres, but again, not sure. I selected Dirty Empath because of the online affair that didn’t go that far when I met him in person, but was still against my vows. I justified it because hub has his affair with online porn, but what I did was still a form of infidelity.
This is a tricky one… I see myself in a multitude of schools and cadre 🤷🏼♀️ I suspect I’m a super empath, with a hint of Saviour and dirty and a sprinkling of my own narcissistic ego problems. Or is one completely exclusive of the other?
HG I know you mostly saw me as a Magnet Empath. I read about it and that is true most of time but I do have Geyser behaviors … You might agree on how I reacted last year?
In any case, I wish I was a SuperEmpath, sometimes I believe I have super empath behaviors by contagion , when I spend too much time with my Greater Elite Narc, because they seem to be the ones who are healing most faster and GOSO much easier.
But I might be wrong.
I never thought I was an empath, until I spent some time here. My psychometric tests in the past gave me very weak score on the empathy spectrum, but I would say that they mostly measured me at work, in my private life, it is a whole different story.
One thing thought that I have made big progress on is that victimisation that I had been doing all my life. I now take responsibility, especially that I am aware, of my actions and inactions.
Boy… I don’t want to be a Narc, I always feel bad when my Narc’s behaviors comes out, I would not be able to live with myself.
OMJ
Are you saying you are Contagion? I wasn’t sure by your statement of “I believe I have super empath behaviors by contagion, when I spend to much time with my Greater elite narcissist “
what was the process for HG telling you what u were?
Amanda … I just asked him. We have had, at the time, 4 or 5 consults I believe and I came very prepared to those sessions with specific questions , screenshots of my texts with « my » Narc 🙂 I guess he saw me interacting through these and also my interaction with him. My ego would say he found me magnetic or magnifique ! Hey HG? Sounds like this does not it ? :)))
Hello HG.
I find this poll difficult to navigate and label myself according to how you define certain types. Based on what you define as an Empath and super Empath compared to the real definitions of both.
According to the HG definition of the terms Empath and super Empath, I am not surprised by the poll results.Those who define themselves as super empaths are correct according to Hg terms…high narcissitic traits, lower empathetic and nil empathic traits.
Those identifying as Empaths are actually empathetic, not empathic people as they have higher empathetic traits and lower narcissitic traits, though still present. They may also depending on the person also exhibit empathic traits.
So, according to how I read Your definitions there are more empathetic( Hg definition of an Empath) and more highly narcissistic ( Hg definition of a super Empath) readers on the blog, next would be co dependents and borderlines and lastly empathic ( True Empaths ) and highly empathic(True super Empaths..which I “may “ have observed on the blog) readers.
I am not basing this on poll results, but from reading on the blog.
The co dependents fall between empathetic and Highly narcissistic readers. Then the borderlines and diagnosed disorders of narcissist, sociopath and psychopath bring up the rear.
There are also lower level lesser and midrange victim narcissists on the blog posting as empathetic or empathic people. Which Hg often points out this fact to readers by citing their narcotic traits, As well as somatic, cebrebral and elite versions. Which are based on recognized narcissitic definitions, But as Hg states they truly believe they are empathetic people or Hgs Empaths. Their masks fall away fairly quickly to the Hg trained eye and by empathic readers.
There is no shame in who we are and admitting such according to the actual defintions or your version. Better yet, just be as we know our true self to be. If we know. Without external label. I admit, sometimes Labels can help us define who we are better.
This is purely how I see the hierarchy between empathy and narcissism.
1. A true Super Empath( feeling based…highest level of empathic and empathetic traits…no narcissitic traits….Hgs contagion Empath..yet to be defined).
2. Empath( feeling based…empathic and empathetic traits..contagion strain…no narcissitic traits)
3. empathetic person( logic and feeling.. Hgs Empath…high empathetic traits, low level narcissitic traits)
4. codependent( exhibits empathy. Empathetic traits and low level narcissitic traits )
5. highly narcissitic person(logic based… lower empathy, higher narcissitic traits..more rational, then emotional in thinking ..Hgs super Empath)
6. borderline( irrationality of emotion based.,limited logiic…similar to Hgs super Empath…has both empathetic and narcissitic traits..but unlike highly narcissitic person( HG super Empath) is more prone to emotional outbursts and fluctuating emotions)
7.narcissist ( logic based depending on school and cadre…zero empathy)
and so forth to other ASPD.
So according to Hgs definition I am a (magnetic) empathetic person, as he does not define by true empathic traits.
Thusly, according to the true defintions I am a magnet Empath, INFJ type with contagion traits, but not a true super Empath by actual or Hgs definition. I do feel the uncommunicated positive and negative emotions of others and confuse them for my own. I can be sensory overwhelmed by the emotion of others. I often have to remove myself from Toxic and negative surroundings.
But to me it is a very unique and special person to be labelled a super Empath, the supreme empathic and altruistic person. Non critical, non judging, non confrontational, unbiased, giving, forgiving, compassionate, loving, and a healer. All the good that one can be with the absence of ones own negative emotion. A vessel for the emotional healing of others.
HG why did you change the defintions of Empath and Super Empath on the blog.?
Why didn’t you just use highly empathetic ( your version of an Empath)and highly narcissistic ( your version of a Super Empath) for the personalities you are describing. And use highly empathic (Super Empath) and empathic ( Empath ).
Maybe the change Of definitions only confuses me and not others.
In reading through your blog in the past I have always wanted to ask why. Especially when I see readers confusing who they are. Now this poll has provided a venue to do so. My apologies for such a lengthy comment. I am working it all out as I type.
Thank you Hg for all the good work you do here in providing information about narcissism. I agree with your work and how you describe narcissists. The similarity to the narcissists in my own life is astounding. It is just your definition of Empath and super Empath I find difficulty reconciling with the true definitions.
I do hope my navigation of these terms does neither offend, nor wound you, HG. They are my own personal thoughts and not meant to offend hG or any readers, As you must be aware of the actual true defintions of both and changed them here for your own purpose. Whatever that may be. Which I would be interested in knowing why.
I would welcome any comments from other readers who may have similar confusion as I do regarding the use of Empath and super Empath versus empathetic and narcisstic types on the blog. And how you may define yourself according to these terms.
I’d like to know your personal favorite, HG.
Magnet Super Empath.
THAT IS ME \o/
And also the majority of your readers apparently. Very interesting. Maybe in your writing you somehow target that kind subconsciously?
I’m going through a metamorphosis, so whatever I have been, I’m not anymore. I was raised by a narcissist, so I learned an unhealthy mind-style. All I’ve ever wanted to be is normal. If that’s boring, then bring it on because it’s far superior to being a doormat or repressing the real me and never really being fulfilled or happy.
A healthy balance of empathy and narcissism with a strong personality is all I want. Freeing myself to finally be me – not a caterpillar but a butterfly.
Kel
Serious question – not mocking or provoking.
What’s stopping you? That was then and this is now. You’re in charge now.
NA,
What makes you think anything is stopping me? Changing into a butterfly is a process, and I’m learning new things everyday. It’s not like you can zipper off the costume that’s been you all your life in one morning. There’s delicate emotional stuff to discard still. But I’m having epiphanies dawning on me that are awesome. Just this morning I realized I don’t want to stay in the job I’m in anymore, and it feels great to have a brand new to-do list, this time ‘procrastinating’ isn’t on the list! No negatives NA, it is happening, I’ve got one leg out of the cocoon and a wing on the way.
Kel
That’s excellent to hear! I thought you were still contemplating and hadn’t yet embarked. I was hoping to give you a friendly nudge, but glad to know it isn’t needed.
I love your comments NarcAngel. I need to read these nudges. Great coaching!
I don’t know!
Dirty empath marriage/relationship breaker, Cadre: Carrier, School: Standard.
Standard, Magnet
Loved reading all comments and insights on this poll tonight – I feel like we are playing HG’s version of Guess Who! Woo hoo!
School – I can’t be sure but I would err on the side of normal – a blend of both empathic and N traits with a pretty good handle on the ET. It took the N 10 years to earn my trust before I willingly became an IPPS (aka oil well) and I am not easily converted.
Presuming that a normal person can also have a cadre then….
Cadre – Magnet – energy is everything – I love transformational conversations and often find others seeking my company and counsel in the stranger setting – hope is both my vehicle and currency – I adore coaching and mentoring others – N’s jealousy was the key issue in our relationship because I shudder to say this but I am told I stand out in a crowd – I am adaptable, well loved and have an ever expanding life circle and portfolio – there are times I suffer energy depletion when I take on too much which impacts those closest to me.
I have been or have been forced to be all. Now I am none. People suck so they can rot in their own shit holes without my help. I’ll stick to plants and animals, there I can be what I need to be. Guess that’s my answer: a super pissed off empath.
Dearest IdaNoe,
Your comment hit a raw nerve with me and I totally understand where you’re at …..it’s also me
I too have stopped “fixing” people and people can wallow in their own mess (they do what they want any way, regardless) I spend a massive amount of time in the garden (with Mr Bubbles) and with my mum’s cats
You are still you, IdaNoe – beautiful, loving, giving, caring, loyal, reliable, dependable .. don’t you ever forget it.
All I can say is …. what lucky furballs they are – to have you 😻
Stay as lovely as you are
Hugs beautiful one 🤗
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thank you Bubbles! Sorry for the delay. It all just wells up at times. I remember you are dealing with your matriarch too. I’ve abandoned mine, but you’re still in it. Stay strong my lovely! Thanks for the encouraging words!
Dearest IdaNoe,
Doing what’s best for you, is your no 1 priority lovely one
Yes, I’m currently looking after my mum, however I’m in the drivers seat now
Thankyou for your kind thoughts
Hugs to you precious
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Aaah!! My twin flame…finally. You are the flowing “piss” to my puddle “piss”, stagnant and evaporating…I do so love your comment. The plants and animals I share my tiny world with are the only reason I choose take up space on this earth, still. Always glad to hear your “voice”.
E&L, Howdy! I’m just pissy. As it stands now, I’ve lost the one family member I had left. They all rally around my nutter mutter (my mother) when I’ve seen her betray all of them. They all buy into her bullshit. Then are pissed off at me because I won’t play the doting daughter anymore. It’s nauseating.
Yeah, plants and animals are my kind of people! You may get bit, but you at least know why. With people, sometimes it’s better to just shut the empathy off. Thanks. Stay strong!
IdaNoe, my reply below was to let you know how much I can relate to your comment. Neglected to address you by name. Yesterday, I was going to identify myself as “nothing” but was compelled by your comment to say something.
IdaNoe
I hear you. The older I get, the more I think plants and animals are the better bet.
Hey NA! Definitely! The longer I’m out of “the game”, the more I’m sure plants and animals are where I belong! Let the players eat each other, I’m tired of being food!
Super empath would be more like myself and with the rolled up doormat around me. I had no idea in the end of my decision for a divorce…how I ignited into supernova mode. It was like taking that bitch by the hair and slinging it around every which way. My ex couldnt tell if i was coming or going. Hahaha… However, I do look back and think damn…I can’t believe I did all those things. I was pissed off. Totally.
Now with no contact its very calm in my life. Nice.
Geyser Empath, with a side order of Dirty Empath, and a smattering of Narcissistic traits…would you like fries with that?
Seriously, I do not know what school I am, but I am pretty sure I am of the Geyser Cadre. I left my husband of 28 years for the LMV Narc and had never strayed before, which means I must have a touch of the Dirty Empath as well.
Great poll, HG!!!
You are welcome.
I’m going with normal. Yup, you heard me. I looked around and everyone is fucked, so that makes me normal.
But……the Boss (HG) says my school is Super Empath, and that is the conclusion that I had come to by being completely honest and objective while reading the information he provides here, and prior to my consultation, and no, I do not view it as any badge of honour (nor do I think should anyone). It’s harder to nail down the cadre because as I’m sure most of us have found – we can see a bit of ourselves in each. Except for the fact that I do not subscribe to a belief system (which does not exclude me altogether) and I do not believe I can save the narcissist, I can see myself predominantly in the Saviour cadre (which makes me cringe every bloody time). Looks like time for another consult.
It’s interesting to see the responses and weigh them against what we thought some people might be, based on our interactions and discussions here.
Another great poll HG. (Also, it gives you time to focus on other things while we blather on about ourselves. Clever.)
Ha ha, I have, as always, much to do.
Hi NA,
Haha – Now I regret having written how damaged I am!
Before you mentioned that HG had diagnosed you as a SE, I always thought you were a Normal – in a positive sense, meaning healthy, not damaged.
E.B
Ha! Nope. I’m waaaayy fucked lol. Just not in the way that keeps me from being awesome or staying in the past.
great idea to compare what we see here. great perspectives NarcAngel.
I had my mother read a few of this articles some time ago and she was actually the one that labelled me a super. I think what got me in that one was helping others from a position of strength as opposed to a people pleasing mentality. I am a magnet, although I will bend over backwards to help a close friend or family member in need. I am, by nature, a caretaker but one that is choosy.
From what I’ve read…every word of the Super Empath and Magnet Empath descriptions resonate with me and the Supernova is formidable.
I’ve been both Dirty Empaths before but learned my lessons in this arena. It’s better to stand on your own than go this route long term. If it helps you get perspective and move on from the narcissist then go for it.
The Supernova is an event, neither a school or a cadre.
I wasn’t implying that it was a school or cadre. But I’ll Supernova all over someone’s face and that’s how I know I’m a Super Empath.
Good lord, take some bromide Jess!!
OMG HG!! Lmao! I think I peed a little!! 😂 😂
Jess
So you give facials too. Good to know.
Indeed!
I did that once. He complained bitterly that i’d almost drowned him!
He did have a point though. Apparently, it’s not on to ‘waterboard’ someone, nonconsenually.
Who knew?
😁 I quess I supernova’ed all over his face aswell all the way to latest “discard” that’s a pleasant one I guess 🤷🏽♀️
School: standard. As for the cadre, I am a mixture of Carrier and Doormat. I have many traits you described in your articles about these two cadres, but not all of them. It depends on what type of source (PS, SS, TS) and relationship we are talking about (romantic, business, familial, friendships, acquaintances.) Besides, I have changed because of group bullying (mobbing), among other types of abuse. I am not as empathetic as I used to be. Only my empathy for animals remains unchanged.
Going to read up on them all again as I don’t know what I am..apart from a soft touch and a sap. A sucker with mug & scapegoat written on my head.. i identify with all the schools but am not a magnet. Im sure ive done the super nova thing and wondered if was me that was the evil deranged one..
A poll! And about Empaths too! Its like Christmas! Thank you HG!
Reading the comments, its striking how many are unsure on school, let alone cadre but then I’m not really suprised by that. Like others, I’m also not suprised that SE’s are strongly presenting.
I’ve not got my judgy pants on but I AM actually suprised that dirty Empaths are so high up in the rankings.
SEs present heavily but many people get it wrong, it is understandable though. An article regarding The Cliff will bring some clarity with regard to the SE.
Ahh right. This ties in with what you were saying yesterday on the misrepresentation of what the Supernova actually is.
Very much looking forward to reading it.
Oh good – looking forward to The Cliff because I am still on the fence about this. But I also think SEs are probably drawn to this site so might be over-represented here. Maybe they are more curious about all things narcissism, including their own role in the dynamic.
I don’t think and one Empath is more drawn to this site but if there were IMO it would likely be the Codependent. The Codependent would actively and voraciously seek information in an attempt to gain some sort of control or to obtain manipulative tactics that would give them a sense of control. A person with control issues that feels out of control would as I said voraciously seek information. I see them here asking questions looking for any edge to manipulate the narc. They aren’t interested in leaving, they are interested in how to get the narc to “behave” ways to control their situation not so they can leave, so they can stay.
A Codependent doesn’t really want to leave because they too get something from the dynamic. It’s a symbiotic relationship whereby both parties are fueled
Super Empath, Carrier Cadre..
Quotes from HG to support:
“The Super Empath is also a giver but whereas the co-dependent is masochistic in this giving, the Super Empath does so from a position of strength. They hold their ability to empathise, to heal, to fix and impart goodness as a great gift and one which ought not to be abused.”
“The false strength which the narcissist exhibits at the outset of the seduction, the confidence, the apparent satisfaction with his self, that he appears comfortable in his own skin, at ease with others, capable of lighting up a room and so forth is a huge attraction to the Super Empath because that person actually sees something of themselves in the narcissist when the narcissist is seducing. That is not to state that the Super Empath is a narcissist. Far from it. But the Super Empath is just as engaging as the narcissist and thus there is a mutual attraction.” — there was indeed a mutual attraction between me and my narc when first meeting and growing up together as friends in high school; he was always so excited to talk to me and said I was the coolest person to talk to because we had all the right things in common and I was like the girl version of himself.. I thought the same..
“The narcissist must put the extra miles in, in terms of seduction to ensnare the Super Empath.” — I’ve known my narc for 13 years now.. It took having a child with him in the most recent 2.5 years to get me in his consistent fuel matrix..
“The Super Empath will remain, wanting to fix the narcissist, exhibiting again the same empathic traits of others on the empathic spectrum, but again being made of sterner stuff, their descent towards numbness and malfunction is far slower than that of the empath. The Super Empath will keep providing the fuel but deteriorates at a slower rate.” — Perfectly written.. I’ve been at this for years and only within the past year has my fuel significantly decline, by choice..
“The Super Empath becoming “aware” of what is happening, becoming unwilling to dedicate further energy to staying with the narcissist to fix and to heal and thus escaping.” — I’ve left my narcissist dozens of times..
“The Carrier Empath is a superlative listener. Exhibiting considerable patience, he or she will sit and listen to the woes and problems of others. They do not jump to conclusions, as many people would, instinctively forming a view of the person they are engaging with, within moments of meeting. Instead, the Carrier Empath is able to resist making an early judgement about this person and will listen to what they have to say, so they can best work out how to assist. The Carrier Empath knows full well that sometimes just being listened to is the best thing for another person.” — This is how I am with every person I meet.. And I meet a lot of people and have deeper conversations with them, rather than small talk, due to my work.. Many people find it extremely comfortable to open up and tell me such intimate details of their life stories..
“The passive aggressive Mid-Range Narcissist who finds that he is not able to get his way with a third party will invariably turn to the Carrier Empath to step up on his or her behalf and get the problem sorted. If weakened from a lack of fuel and potential criticism from this third party, the Mid-Range will turn to the Carrier Empath to make everything alright again and the Carrier Empath will dutifully attend to his.” — I cannot count the number of times my mid-ranger required my presence to ease and quell whatever discomfort he was feeling inside due to a criticism, confrontation, etc.. I have just simply been there for him, and even that is something he would not deny..
I want to note I am not wholly of the Saviour cadre, but this quote from HG described well my approach to my narcissist.. But only him, not really anyone else I have dealt with…. : “With regard to our kind, the Saviour Empath does not consider that we are intrinsically ‘evil’ or ‘bad’. They prefer to adopt the view that there is good locked away inside of us and that it just has to be discovered, unlocked and set free.”
Bekah B
These are precisely the reasons I would identify as super and carrier. So interesting to be able to align our traits this way. Definitely helps in the overall understanding of the narc attraction and repeated patterns in relationships.
Yes, absolutely, Joanne.. 🙂
Me parezco mucho a tí.
Durante años algo no funcionaba, no sabía que era.
Estaba en la dinámica de perdonar e intentar buscar algo bueno encerrado en su interior ( mi narc).
Desconocía que ocurría, pero una tras otra vez , decídia perdonarlo y ver en el la parte buena que estaba por descubrir.
ESto duro 10 años de mí vida.
Hasta que descubrí por casualidad este TRASTORNO.
Ahi si que me sentí VIOLADA Y FURIOSA, ESTUPIDA Y VACIA.
Ese momento fue el evento SUPERNOVA.
Conseguí acorralarlo, xq o bien es un midranger y no conoce lo que es, o simplemente es tan narcisista Mayor que no daba crédito a que lo hubiera descubierto.
Me dí cuenta de mis muchos errores arraigados dentro mía.
Destruirlo a él , era destruirme a mí misma. Esa es la realidad.
Me sentí DESVIRGADA , toda mi inocencia y forma de actuar se desvaneció.
Capacitada para ver en el cada doble sentido, cada doble palabra y cada doble acto.
Capacitada para reirme de él y a la vez llorar por mí.
SUPER EMPATH
Codependent. Can’t remember where I asked this but can a Codependent be a Magnet?
This should be interesting. I predict a bunch of Super Empaths lol
Lori, yes, a codependent may be a Magnet.
That’s me then ! I have been described as a social butterfly and Bubbly and every Narc I have known says I have a way of drawing people’s attention. Narc 1 later admitted it bothered him
I understand MB. But I have had so many consults over the years with HG that by now I’m sure he knows what I am going to say before I say it! The first few I was uncomfortable with, however his professionalism and knowledge always puts me at ease! Now it is like talking to an old friend! Not saying that you are old HG!!
“Maybe you feel you are a normal,”
Ha, ha! No, never in my entire life! Ha, ha!
I am very obviously a contagion – no doubt there (waiting anxiously for that contagion article, HG!)
I have a few characteristics of a carrier, but much more for magnet. I draw people, listen, commiserate, send energy and pray – but rarely step in personally and do anything physical to help.
Normal! Ha ha! I’m with you on that one WS! I’ve never been considered normal in anything I’ve ever done my entire life! Just remember to me you seem perfectly normal! 😘
Contagion
All the cadres.
Ha ha damn I need sleep, all cadres. I am not a dirty empath, yet I do have a touch of geyser, a cup of magnet, a dash of carrier and a splash of Saviour or as K put it I am an ocean of emotion……everybody’s else’s emotions.
HG confirmed I am a Contagion.
The poll is interesting HG, I took a few minutes this evening to look around. I have made some interesting observations, maybe we can discuss this at sometime.
Naturally.
🌟
Pretty pic
Thank you.
HG this was a hard poll. But anyway I think it would be a great seller if you released a quiz titled ‘what kind of Empath are you’ and sold it for 9.99. I’d sure pay. -love, a supposed super Empath.
I am working on something along those lines, for now an email consultation or audio consultation will give you the answer and you can ask more besides.
you should really shave those legs 😛
No chance, Paula.
Shave them?
Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!
With you on that one Sister! Would love to have those fuzzy beautiful legs wrapped around me!!
OMG! Did I really just say that??! Not your legs HG!! Legs like yours!! 🤦🏼♀️
How does it help us to know what brand of person we are?
So you understand how your interaction with the narcissist is likely to pan out.
Uh, fucking pathetically..
Ha kathy!
Hello, H.G. TUDOR.
Me, a codependant / doormat.
Because, that’s how I felt in the relationship.
I swore with the doormat in hand as in “GONE WITH THE WIND” not to be a doormat again.
And throw the doormat in the trash.
And my narcissist with the…
garbage that you are a garbage,
welcome to home..
Oh, and btw HG. The other shadow outline picture suits you better Sir. There are apparently two. This one does not do you justice. Just my opinion. Since it’s a poll and all.
I got called down by HGs poll for choosing more than 4. As I am in life, I am in this poll. A square peg trying to fit into a round hole. I classify myself as a standard leaning towards codependent carrier/magnet dirty empath of the infidelity variety. I’m pretty sure the diagnosis is terminal 😜
Oh MB! lol 😂
Not terminal silly!
Ha ha Kathy. I meant chronic! As in no cure. Of course the DE Strand may be terminal if I don’t keep it on the DL!
I’m a hopeless slut at the end of the day MB.
Kathy, enjoying sex doesn’t make you a slut! It’s a double standard. I know what you mean though. Being raised as a polite southern lady, I was ashamed of my sexuality. It took a narc to bring me out of that. I still have a long way to go though.
Oh I don’t feel bad about it! Lol. Yes, narc sex is best.. Unfortunately lol
Kathy0720
I actually did laugh out loud at that.
I have never been able to figure out what I am! Depending on the time and day, there seem to be quite a few I could fall under! 😝 Guess it’s time for a consult with HG!
Yes it is.
I will be taking care of this today Sir! 😝
Jolly good.
FM1T, hopefully he will come out with an Empath Detector service soon.
That would be quite easy for him to do MB, I’m sure he has figured out exactly what type each and everyone of us falls under!!
Actually FM1T, the consult I did with him to try and ascertain my empath school and cadre was the most awkward I’ve ever had with him. I don’t say that to discourage you and I certainly don’t want HG to take it the wrong way. I think it was a matter for me in that I was extremely uncomfortable talking so much about myself. I still cringe when I think about that day. I would’ve much preferred the questionnaire like he has for the Narc Detector. That way, I could have filled it out on my own and been completely honest about my answers. The open ended question of, so tell me about yourself strikes terror in me!
@MB Its so so tricky, really opening up.
One central strand that all Es possess is an almost pathalogical desire not to open up to the wrong person. There are very good reasons for this. The E has asked for help before and has been shunned. Repeatedly. This makes asking for help ever more harder. The ultimate ending is that the E NEVER asks for help. The cycle reinforces itself and becomes a negative feedback loop.
Its very difficult to get out of that loop. But not impossible and I am the living proof its possible.
Its in the eyes MB. That’s why some Ns can get a bit snippy with you when you’ve shut them unexpectedly or ask you to remove your sunglasses before they will speak.
Or in one case a ‘What are you thinking about?’ when i had just turned my head away. (It was writing, actually). It’s also how I’ve been targeted on social media before. Little did they know, that there are ‘trap’ pictures on one profile.
They REALLY should learn to stop commenting on that one.🤣🤣🤣
Renarde, you lost me sweetheart. I don’t follow?
Oh, just that a lot of empaths have unusually expressive eyes that tend to be larger than normal.
There must be something to that Renarde. HG writes about the eyes and the validation he finds there.
Yes indeed. Such a pity its winter and I cant use them as often.
Renarde, I must wear sunglasses year round but certainly not for Narc shielding. My eyes are very sensitive to light. I don’t want to damage my baby blues!
Absolutly!
MB
How was the empath consultation conducted if not by questionnaire?
Joanne, when I did mine, we did it as part of an hour Skype audio consult. It was very informal and relied on what I could tell him and what I thought might be important for him to know. I saw HGs answer to another reader this morning that he now has a questionnaire so I shall be partaking in that. Plus, this time, I’ll get an audio file back that I can listen to until my ears catch fire! Ha ha
Hi FM1T,
I understand what you mean. I wrote something similar below. It depends on different factors. Narcissists are not much different than us. I have seen MRNs behaving as if they had lost most of their narc traits when in front of their Matrinarc or narc wife.