Do Narcissists Know What They Are Doing? The Mid- Ranger



Previously I addressed whether the Lesser Narcissist knows what he or she is doing and why, but now let us examine the Mid Range Narcissist. You may well accept that the Lesser, unrefined battering ram that he or she is, just ploughs through life oblivious to the harm they cause, but surely the more cognitively blessed Mid Range narcissist is well aware of what he is doing? He plots and plans, yes? He knows precisely how to manipulate and thinks it through, scheming in advance to get the right result for him?


The Mid Range Narcissist (Lower Mid, Middle Mid and Upper Mid) has an increased level of cognitive function beyond the Lesser. The Mid Ranger also exhibits cognitive (fake) empathy, knowing enough of how he or she is expectedto behave in order to fit in, to con and thus ensnare. However, despite this increased cognitive function – and the Upper Mid Range Narcissist may be highly intelligent – it is instinct that once again rules the behaviours and response of the narcissist.

The Mid Ranger does not sit in a hollowed-out volcano like some Bond villain rubbing his hands together and scheming. He or she does not think about all the ways he or she can ruin the life of the empath in the forthcoming weeks. Their narcissism operates in a way, as ever, as a self-defence mechanism to enable the Mid Ranger to function and be effective – because he or she has not developed other coping mechanisms which non-narcissists have, to navigate a path through life. The operation of this is instinctive.

Does the Mid Ranger think that he will sit and sulk so he can assert control over his long-suffering spouse and gain fuel as she begs him to speak to her? No. He instinctively sits in silence because that is the optimum response as a consequence of him having been wounded. His narcissism operates to make him issue a silent treatment. This of course draws fuel and asserts his perceived superiority over the relevant appliance, but he does not decide to give a silent treatment, he just does it. He knows that he is not speaking to her.

Does the Mid Ranger decide that she will issue a pity play to her colleagues about the way she has been passed over for promotion, thus smearing the boss and gaining sympathy fuel from those listening? No, it is her manipulative response to having been wounded by not gaining the promotion.

Does the Mid Ranger recognise that his cold put downs upset you? Yes. He sees your tears, hears the hurt in your voice and your pained expression. This provides him with fuel (although he does not recognise as such) and he feels the power flowing from the provision of such fuel. This reaction to the flow of power might be to smile or smirk at you. You may then think, “He knows what he is doing.” No, he knows his action hurts you, but he feels no guilt, no remorse, no upset at behaving this way because as ever, from the narcissistic perspective, it is entirely justified.

To understand this further, imagine there is a Mid Range Narcissist and a victim. Husband and wife. Both have been at work during the day. The narcissist called his wife twice during the afternoon but she did not answer – this wounds him. She also failed to call him back. He is wounded again. His wife, as his Intimate Partner Primary Source is painted black as a consequence of his split thinking. Thus, from his narcissistic perspective everything she says and does will be viewed through a ‘black lens’ until she becomes painted white again. A normal, healthy person would work out that her failure to answer and return the call means she is busy, perhaps in a meeting. The narcissist, governed by paranoia and the overwhelming need to control is wounded. This person is not doing what he wants, his sense of entitlement (that she should be available) is dented. He feels like he is losing control. He starts to feel powerless and is reminded of a time when he once was regularly made to feel that way. This situation must be addressed – he must assert his superiority and his blackened view of his spouse will enable him to do this.

His wife is at home first. The husband walks through the door and she greets him with

“Hello darling, what have you been doing?”

An innocuous and pleasant question, enquiring thoughtfully about her husband’s day.

The husband does not regard it that way. His narcissism demands that he asserts control and that she is punished for her transgression. He does not think

“She did not answer my call, I must punish her. She did not call me back, I must assert control.”

Those needs for control and punishment are automatic and instinctive. Her question is viewed as prying, controlling and unnecessary.

“What’s it got to do with you?” he snaps at her. His blackened view of her meaning his response is provocative and unpleasant. His wife is taken aback, her expression changes to one of hurt and the narcissist receives fuel from this.

“Sorry? What’s wrong? Why are you being like that?” she asks in a hurt tone.

These questions are challenge fuel. Her emotion gives him fuel, but because she is querying him, she is challenging him and thus (viewed by the narcissist) continues to reject control and rebel against him.

The Mid Ranger does not think

“Ah good, she is upset and confused. I know I will keep this going.” Instead, his instinctive response, which is automatic and swift in order to preserve him as his self-defence mechanism should, causes him to respond

“There’s nothing wrong with me. It’s you, always prying, asking me questions, trying to control me.”

The wife is taken aback once again. She knows she is not controlling (but then she may start to doubt this of course) but she is confused. Her confusion is welcome, it makes her easier to control. Her responses keep fuelling the narcissist. The Mid Ranger however is not considering what he will say next in order to keep confusing her, he is not considering how to gain more fuel from her, he is not considering how to assert his control over her, it all happens as a matter of instinct. He knows she is upset, but it is her fault because the narcissism makes it anybody’s fault save that of the narcissist. He knows that his comments trouble her, but they are necessary because she is the aggressor.

A third party watching this scene would decide that the narcissist responded unpleasantly at the outset and thus he is the problem.

The narcissist does not and cannot see that. He thinks he is the victim. He thinks his spouse is the problem because she failed to answer his call and call him back. His narcissism makes him think she is controlling  and thus he RESPONDS to her abusive behaviour and accordingly he is not the instigator. This is why, coupled with a lack of remorse and guilt is why the Mid Range Narcissist sees nothing wrong with what he is doing because all he is doing is responding to the unreasonable behaviour of another and therefore he is in the right.

This increased cognitive awareness of the Mid Ranger also gives rise to the façade. A Lesser would have an affair and would not care who knows – the cuckolded spouse is at fault for whatever reason he chooses and anybody who dares to say anything bad about his infidelity is a moron. The Mid Range Narcissist knows that society regards infidelity as a bad thing. He does not and moreover his narcissism will give him plenty of reasons why he should commit it. However, because he has enough cognitive awareness to recognise that it is frowned upon, he will hide the affair (unless there is an overriding beneficial reason not to) which gives the appearance that he feels bad about his behaviour. Not so, he does not want his façade damaged, he does not want the aggravation of the steady home life (with its attendant fuel and residual benefits) damaged. but again he does not think in such terms, he just knows that people will frown on him for cheating on his wife, so he keeps it hidden.

It may seem that the Mid Range Narcissist does indeed feel guilty for his behaviour. That he is genuinely sorry and he will make amends. Not at all. Again, he knows enough from instinctive observation that not talking to someone for a week is hurtful and viewed as a ‘bad thing’ and will even go so far as to admit that BUT there will always be a reason or an excuse. He will say

“I know it hurts you when I do not speak to you for a week BUT if you didn’t nag me, I would not need a time out.”

He instinctively blame shifts within this moment of apparent contrition.

Some Middle Mid Rangers and Upper Mid Rangers may plan to correct the perceived wrongs they have suffered, but this remains an instinctive response. He does not think – “I know this is wrong what I am planning, but what the hell, I will do it anyway.” He knows people may regard it as wrong, but he knows that he is justified because he has been offended, hurt, wronged in some way – namely wounded or challenged – and thus his action is justified and necessary.

When the Mid Ranger lies, he does not know that he is lying. The lie is his truth because his narcissism causes it to be – his narcissism will deflect blame, apportion blame to you, revise history, deny and so forth – all part of the instinctive responses which are totally necessary for the narcissist to regain and maintain control and is as a result of the The Narcissist’s Twin Lines of Defence

When the Mid Ranger gas lights, he does not know he is doing so. He may be contradicting what he said five minutes ago but his narcissism blinds him to this, it has to so the defence mechanism remains intact and effective, and therefore he genuinely believes what he is saying is correct and moreover you are wrong and therefore you are the problem.

This is why Mid Range Narcissists believe that they are good people, indeed empathic people and that the other person (the real victim) is the problem. This is why the real victim is labelled as an abuser, a tormentor and even a narcissist and the Mid Range Narcissist truly believes this to be the case. He does not think “I know I am the problem and she is not, but I am going to mess with her head” – he really believes the victim is the trouble maker because that way his responses and actions have absolute conviction, have the best possible chance of a successful outcome (namely fuel and control) and thus the manipulation goes on and on with no prospect whatsoever for change.

59 thoughts on “Do Narcissists Know What They Are Doing? The Mid- Ranger

  1. ava101 says:

    So they didn’t decide beforehand to use me for a while as their doll and to play with my emotions and to hurt me, but really were like … children getting into a new game, hoping for a good time?
    But then didn’t want to play anymore when they got injured, and when they couldn’t control the game? Also trying different things, and sometimes sulking like children when a game doesn’t go their way?
    But they set out believing they will be the king of the play castle?

  2. Saskia says:

    Am I correct in assuming that, when a midranger openly states about himself that he is “still a small boy inside”, that this is an attempt to release himself of any accountability/responsibility?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, it is a form of pity play.

      1. Saskia says:

        Thank you. In retrospect and with the knowledge I have gained, I can clearly see the reason why I initially misconstrued his statement as a sign of awareness of what he is.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed it is entirely understandable.

  3. ava101 says:

    how can it be instinctive when a mid ranger uses information he has gathered about the victim before, and also about past abuse, against her? In words, but also doing exactly what he knows had hurt his victim before? You have described before, that/how you do that, but that’s not instinctive?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The narcissism instinctively uses the information that has been gathered. The Lesser or MR narcissist does not sit down and think “I know, I want to hurt this person, I will use x information to hurt her.” The information that has been gathered earlier (and that has been gathered instinctively) is then used instinctively to further the narcissist’s aim, there is no conscious thought behind it – it just happens.

      1. ava101 says:

        I just don’t get it.

        I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t understand how someone can function that way. And then even not realising they’re doing that.

        Like, the ex-narc was laughing at some of these things, saying “oh, that must seem a bit familiar to you, …”.

        And usually, it’s the other way round, when I know something about someone, how he/she got hurt in the past, I’d try to avoid that.

        1. K says:

          It is innate. The brain wires itself so the child can protect himself in his environment. He runs on autopilot and he isn’t even aware of it; it just comes naturally. Form his perspective he is normal and we are the problem.

          You are wired (programmed) for emotional empathy so you understand how and why someone feels hurt/pain and your traits of decency and caring allow you to behave in a way that isn’t hurtful. The narcissist lacks those traits and cannot put himself in another’s shoes.

          1. nunya biz says:

            Yeah, and I know I’ve discussed it with you before, K (thank you), this whole conversation reminds me of my husband. He always would have evidence that I am the one with the problems because I would say mean things, and I do. But I’ve had to explain things to him for a long time, he and I are not the same. He is dismissive, apathetic, passive aggressive. It took me a long time to build up anger about it.

            He doesn’t even realize it. It doesn’t matter what I say to him, it doesn’t matter if I insult him, it was a long painful time for me to understand that, I have guilt. But it doesn’t matter what I say to him, he can only be ego-wounded, he is not hurt. Meanwhile I have been in torment in response to his lack of understanding and connection. He is not tormented. He can be unhappy about something, but not tormented by that. I can feel bad forever in not fulfilling my own ideals about what a loving partner is, but he only cares about his own translation of my actions, so it’s pointless for me to feel anguished over MY STANDARDS. These are mid-rangers.

            I saw Twisted Heart said something on the “The Mid Range Narcissist” post also about insulting the narc and that reminded me of this also (HG responded about “challenge fuel”).
            For me, he doesn’t feel it, doesn’t register, sees the emotion, ignores it, doesn’t understand what pain is. I have told him that he is like an infant, I think it’s a good analogy actually. An infant might grab their mother’s hair and the mother makes a pained face in automatic response and the infant is delighted or at least curious at the reaction, not registering it as pain, and then does it again to get the reaction. There is no underlying malice….or understanding. That’s also why I can’t mirror him to any effect.

          2. WhoCares says:

            nunya biz,

            That made A LOT of sense.

          3. K says:

            You are welcome nunya biz
            Your situation is very difficult and heartbreaking. You are not the problem. You might have said mean things but it was probably in self-defence to his abuse and manipulations. When he presented evidence of your “meaness”, he took it out of context to distort your reality and paint you as the abuser. That is gaslighting.

            You are an empath and you feel the need to explain and get to the truth of the matter. That is your truth seeker trait coming to the fore which keeps you engaged with your husband and providing fuel.

            You are not the same. He is a narcissist and you are an empath and your realities clash. He doesn’t realize it and he is not wired to care. He gets fuel from your explanations, pleading and upset. He just cannot see your POV and like you wrote, if you insult him, it’s just challenge fuel.

            Don’t focus on your ideals of what a loving partner should be, just let that go. Focus on taking care of yourself. You didn’t do anything wrong so let go of your anguish and guilt and look at your situation with logic. He will never see your POV so stop trying to get him to do so. Put your energy into yourself and deciding how you want to move forward. Keep reading and posting so you can replace your ET with LT. It takes time but allow it to sink in and work its magic.

            I called my MMRN an infant, too.

          4. WhoCares says:


            That also made A LOT sense.

            Thanks K & nunya biz for your comments…so helpful.

          5. K says:

            My pleasure WhoCares
            The logic on narcsite is outstanding and it compels us to move forward if we let it but it takes time and dedication and a lot of mistakes on the way to freedom.

          6. WhoCares says:

            Ooh yeah…*nods head* …A LOT of mistakes…

          7. ava101 says:

            thank you, that is a very good description / explanation.
            Well, I cannot put myself in the mid range narc’s shoes, either. ;D
            So maybe it’s the same the other way round … ?
            Self defence, well. I will always try to remember that in future.

            nunya biz:
            I tried to tell the most current narc in my life, too: yes, I got louder, when he just didn’t seem to hear me. But I never attacked him personally. He did though. He didn’t understand the difference.

          8. K says:

            My pleasure ava101
            HG articulates the narcissistic perspective so well that I understand his POV. I read a magazine article about a business man who couldn’t speak Chinese but he could translate the characters perfectly. That’s what it is like for me. I will never speak NPD but I can work on translating it.

          9. Mercy says:

            K, you are an excellent translator!

          10. K says:

            Thank you Mercy!
            It is a work in progress.

          11. nunya biz says:

            Thank you K, ava and WC.
            It is true, K. I’ve just struggled for so long about my end of things. And everything you are saying makes sense. It’s also the TRUTH that gets in my way.
            Because like you say, our realities clash and he doesn’t know it. So he sees me as wrong. And I “know” I’m not. But I also know that he sometimes tries to do “kind” things by his definition in his reality. He tries to do the right thing but can’t by mine. He just doesn’t see.

            I will keep posting and thinking. I know I’m getting somewhere and I know all the emotional reasons for things don’t matter I have to move forward anyway, and logically the best way of doing that is what I should do. I talk plainly to him.

            ava- I have personally attacked. Quite a bit. But I also know it doesn’t feel the same to him as it would to me. He might guilt trip me, but it is all in preservation of ego. And, yes, he doesn’t see the things he does as personally offensive even when they are life altering.

            WhoCares- glad the convo is helpful. You say many things that make sense to me.

          12. K says:

            My pleasure nunya biz
            You are correct; he just can’t “see” it. He does what is right from HIS perspective because it serves his purposes. He needs to be in control because that is how he copes in his reality. Those “kind” things are also about control. It could be a seduction hoover as part of a respite phase or facade maintenance if there is an audience present.

            In our reality we are right and the victim, however, he is right in his reality and the victim, as well.

            Move forward at your own pace and allow your logic to guide you but don’t beat yourself up if your ET takes over.

            When you get a chance read: Zero Impact, How To Reduce Giving Fuel to The Narcissist and Sins of The Empath: Truth Seeker.

          13. nunya biz says:

            Thank you for those recommendations, K! I will be reading them right away. I know I’ve said before, but I appreciate your support beyond words. I have noticed that I have a way of distancing myself from my own feelings even though I do still go through them and have them and the pain is there, I have a hard time accepting someone else being supportive. I feel a need to downplay things and from my own point of view I feel always nonobjective so I am wary influencing anyone’s perspective about my experiences. Some things I know for certain, especially some of my background and upbringing/childhood has become even more clear to me, so I can be a little bit more directly objective about how wrong certain things were (especially seeing things in HG’s writing and memories come up), but I still internally downplay when discussing. Still sorting and will read those you cited, thanks again.

          14. K says:

            My pleasure nunya biz
            Distancing is a coping mechanism but it is important to feel your emotions and let them pass. Don’t downplay your experience. Tell it like it is from your POV. We are all here to accept it and support you through it. That’s what empaths do. Enjoy the reading!

          15. ava101 says:

            nunya biz:
            I have attacked the ex-narc (not the current one) severely, too, at some point, and his most intense reaction was: “you think obviously, that you can just say anything to me.”.
            Never an emotional response, not in a normal way. He would sometimes provoke me till I blew up then laugh about it.

            The current one flew into a rage when I was telling him maybe a bit louder, how I felt, and well, accused him of making me feel like a toy …

          16. nunya biz says:

            Ava, yeah that sounds like some of my feeling expressions. I can get pretty over the top sometimes. He doesn’t get emotional ever. Usually he’ll just say some retort, 75% of the time it’s nonsense. He has gotten less word salady, I used to tell him that I thought his head was made up of the game “Boggle” but with words. All twenty of them.

          17. nunya biz says:

            I’m sure you’ve read this, Ava. Might be a good re-read in the context of this convo?

            I find it enlightening from the “do they know what they are doing” perspective also.

            K, gettin on those ones you suggested too.

          18. nunya biz says:

            I read them, K.
            You know what stuck out at me was Zero Impact and moving on and all that. I hadn’t read it fully I don’t think.
            Zero Impact said about worrying about meeting new narcs, which I do. The thing is that every time I put a boundary up toward one a new one comes. Which is fine I suppose, I mean I can just have a boundary with that one? It’s strange to me though and I don’t know how to process it. So two weeks ago some guy I say hi to, as I do with the other humans, jumps in and latches on. I actually felt immediately comfortable and we started talking, he was just chatting and started walking with me as I was doing some things. Then I literally think to myself…
            *ah, I’m making progress in life. I should have nice comfortable conversations, maybe this guy is showing up to be a pleasant interaction*

            Ok, NOOOOOOOPE. Let’s see what’s wrong here.

            It was the first thought that created the second thought, because I can’t see something beforehand sometimes and so I have started to rely on certain feelings I have as an indicator.

            He was just easy to talk to, smart enough for easy conversing, but the main thing is that I felt comfortable immediately. I was not in any way physically attracted, he is not my type, I mean he’s a little hapless and goofy. I even said the word “friends” to him at one point when he brought it up later. But early in the conversation I go on red alert cuz of HG, although appearing normal as usual, just casually waiting for him to tell me what the hell his problem is because my first thought was “nice guy” my next thought was “that cannot be right”…..
            and eventually it turns out like 15 years ago or whatever he had a major head injury and I ask what the specific result was and the outcome was like “oh gee I couldn’t remember my emotional connections to my best friend even though I recognized him, that’s the part that got damaged” which is odd because he seems fine and emotionally connected and whatnot on surface.

            And I’m like “say what now?”
            Ok so this is a brand new creative way to tell me, universe, thanks.

            Whatever he was very nice and seemed unassuming. I hung out with him a couple times, just chatting, no green lights for anything beyond chatting, now he’s lovebombing the living hell out of me. I don’t even respond to that well, in fact it is likely I will yell at him, so clearly not a genius. But I’ve never gotten such compliments it’s actually concerning me.
            And this is WITH ME READING THE BLOG. It’s like I can identify them now but they’re like faster or something. Wtf.

            Seriously this is disheartening. I seriously think there is something wrong with me. I don’t know, it’s not all that, the rest of my day was fine with normal people I guess. I just think….well there are always people like that, they are just the ones that extra focus on people. It’s really making me think.

          19. K says:

            nunya biz
            You are a Narc Magnet so you will always attract narcissists and, when you first meet, they instinctively deploy a seduction hoover. It feels great, doesn’t it? All warm and fuzzy as they flatter and mirror you (red flags). Positive fuel is flowing freely from the tap (you) as he slowly wraps his tendrils around you working his magic. You should consider pulling back from his love-bombing and try to refrain from yelling at him, because you may ignite his fury or challenge him, and then he may malign hoover you. It is better if you proceed in a more pro-social manner by disengaging in a neutral fashion.

            Keep reading and you will learn to recognize and evade them when possible. Focus on the Three Stage Process in Zero Impact and let that sink in, then read it again later. Each time you reread the article, you will pickup on something you missed. That’s how you clear up your ET.

            There is nothing wrong with you and don’t be disheartened. You are an empath and you will attract all personality types and knowing that is half the battle and the narcissist will make a beeline for you because of that. Honestly, you can’t blame them; empaths really are supertankers of fuel.

            When you have the chance read or reread Narc Magnet. It explains the attraction very well.


          20. Christopher Jackson says:

            Very well said

          21. K says:

            Thank you Christopher Jackson.

          22. nunya biz says:

            Thank you for helping me with context, K. I read your post a couple of times and had to reorganize my thoughts a bit. I love to re-read the articles and especially when there is a tie-in to something. I know you are right about being pro-social, I react in the moment to someone taking liberties and making assumptions and felt frustrated.
            And I keep reminding myself when I feel negative that I’ve gotten on well with empaths in relationships also. It is an interesting thing, kind of shifting my perspective some, including about myself (as in ways I’ve ever acted like an asshole : P ).

          23. K says:

            My pleasure nunya biz
            Read and reread until you beat the emotional thinking out of you and replace it with logic. That’s what I did.

            When dealing with narcissists, I try to keep in mind that they did not do this to themselves, they were abused as children so I use logic to bring compassion to the fore and I am either positive or more neutral now. Then I disengage and use a combination of NC/low contact.

            You are correct; it is all about shifting your perspective so keep working on that. It takes a while but don’t give up.

          24. nunya biz says:

            K, yes, and in this particular case if it is what I think it is, he had certainly done nothing wrong and I am reminded, of course my immediate response to him was empathy as well, of course it was. That also must be managed.
            I have been working on lowering my anger responses to things somewhat with past N’s as well (sometimes anger should be increased, but I have been in some rage-inducing situations). My frustration with this person is focused toward the poor boundary recognition (he cannot love me, he doesn’t know me), I can separate that from him as a person. Brilliant as usual, K
            : )

          25. K says:

            Thank you nunya biz
            There is nothing wrong with hate, rage, anger or disgust and, sometimes, I think empaths need to get “good and mad” more often because anger evokes action. Your frustration is understandable. Once I understood the disorder better, I was able to accept everything it encompasses, which includes poor boundary recognition, the inability to love unconditionally, superiority, control, etc.

            It is all about recognizing the different personality types and accepting them as they are; they cannot be fixed so we must learn to protect ourselves and move forward.

      2. ava101 says:

        it is instinctive to talk to me for hours to learn everything about me …? And distinctly fishing for wounds? Like going through a checklist of potential weaknesses….??

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. ava101 says:

            Thank you.

            Well, what would YOU do, what is the difference?

          2. ava101 says:

            I meant, HG: what is the difference between you collecting information and a mid ranger collecting information?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I do it on a calculated basis (with a slight element of instinctiveness) . The Mid Ranger does so purely instinctively.

    2. Mercy says:

      Ava101, when I learned his behavior was instinctive and not planned it took the sting of the hurt away. He would always say he wasn’t intentionally trying to hurt me. I thought that was a lie because his actions would prove otherwise. Now I know my pain was never a conscious thought to him, he was just instinctively taking care of his needs.

      1. ava101 says:

        Mercy, it doesn’t comfort me sooo much that he didn’t do it to hurt me.
        But at least it must cause great sadness inside of you? :/
        Maybe you’re better at accepting that it just is as it is. Or rather not is: just not the tiniest bit of empathy. I can relate better to what HG’s explains how HE sees it. But I just can’t understand that blind tumbling through life of mid rangers and lesser narcs only ever seeing their own childish needs, hurting everyone they come across (more closely).

        The current ex-live-in-narc didn’t do it to hurt me on purpose, I know that. But he doesn’t care. He knows!! that he did. He saw and understood my reactions (though thinking about it … maybe he didn’t ….) …
        He knew and saw that I wasn’t able to work at a certain time, that I’d been crying all night, etc. He knows that and he does know the cause. Saying “you made me do it”, or saying that he didn’t intent to hurt me … — does it really change anything? Shouldn’t he avoid it then in future or try to truly make up for it instead of continuing to suck ALL energy?
        (Yes, I know that I still don’t understand this instinctive make-up of the mid ranger … )

        God, he even told me, he had killed mice with a shoe before and found that funny — but he is NOT like the guy in that mice & men novel … he knows that he is hurting other beings.

        How can he fake empathy in a very convincing way when I tell him about my past, and then do the same – and then just forget about it?

        The ex-narc traumatized me, he’s hurt my brain, destroyed my brain chemicals, got me to aquire a social phobia, constant fear and sky high stress levels.
        And yet he said that, too: he had never intended to hurt me. And didn’t own up to 1% accountability of what he had done.

        I still think he did plan some of his actions, he’s very conscious of how he is, and knows what he is doing and how he is affecting others. He would have had to have been completely blind to what was happening to me, and he was not.
        He liked my pain, I could see him sucking energy out of it, he was elated, he said truly horrible things to me, when I was already lying in the gutter, so to speak. He did not care what happened to me.
        And he did not hurt animals, that was beneath him. Nor did he ever stop contact.

        Sorry, just confused, emotional thoughts.

        1. Mercy says:

          Ava, I understand how you feel. I want to respond when I get some to sit down and write. I will respond this evening

        2. Mercy says:

          Ava 101, 

          Yes, it causes me sadness inside and no, I’m not better at accepting, I’ve just realized that no amount of anger, pain or crying is going to change who he is. That doesn’t mean I didn’t spend ALOT of time with those emotions. There are still days that I feel anger or unexpected sadness for the loss. After years of being on and off of this site, I finally made the decision to put my full trust in HGs knowledge and put my emotions in the hands of the readers. I can’t explain the relief I feel since I made that decision. I’m very thankful for the knowledge and support.

          Don’t apologize for expressing your emotions. It’s important to work through them. Your emotions are raw but it’s good that your seeking answers even if you can’t wrap your mind around it. I’m not as good as k and the others at explaining the different manipulation tactics that make us feel hopeless and confused. I’m still learning too but the more time I spend here talking and reading, the clearer the narcissist behavior is to me and it’s easier to accept. (If I’m unsure about a tactic, I call it gas lighting. It’s a safe guess about 75% of the time. I figure I’ll get corrected if I’m wrong). 

          Give yourself a break for a minute. You said you’re going to block him tonight. Even if you don’t go full NC take a breather. If you don’t want to block him, deactivate your account for a little while and shut off your phone. Light a candle and take a bubble bath or get a really good book. Polish your toes, meditate, play some music. Do something to calm your emotions. Your problems will be there tomorrow or the next day. They can be put on hold for a few hours. Start putting time aside for yourself to calm your emotional thinking. As empaths we have to consciously do it until it becomes habit. Once we get control of the emotions, logic will help us heal. 

          1. ava101 says:

            Thank you so much for your support! You do explain things very well! Also about you yourself handle emotions.

            I think I will go for painting my toes in unicorn colors. 😉
            I meditate a lot, and practise different mental methods, e.g. to create a reference point of peace within myself, no matter what goes on around me …

            Yes, I have blocked him 101 % on all channels. My stress levels have dropped significantly, that constant fear that something might go wrong again any second.
            I am sad but so much better. He is gone and has no way to find out where I am exactly.

            I miss the illusion of intimate, nice moments, his voice … but sure they all came with a high price and with walking on eggshells.
            Ever noticed that so many narcs have such a great voice?!
            All fake and modelled … I had watched this one when on the phone with his female co-worker … woah, did his voice change and he made it sound like in our best moments … :/

            I also took the liberty to write to his ex. I know, it is not recommended, but I just wanted her to know how someone else views him and also what’s going on in his “fuel matrix” (of course didn’t put it that way.)

            Gas lighting, yes. Or simply making the reality just as the want, every moment new.

            I am very grateful for the support of all of you! 🙂

          2. Mercy says:

            Ava101, good for you on blocking him!! It does take the stress levels down. No more wondering if he’ll contact you because he can’t, you made that decision!

            I’m glad you’re able to find peace with meditation. I try to practice mindfulness daily but my discipline has slipped lately. I’ve been keeping myself so busy and gotten out of the habit…. Unicorn color? Do they make that?

            I agree , they are really good at the illusion. I miss the good moments too but when I think about what was happening while I was unaware it brings me back to reality.

            I’m interested to know how the ex played into your relationship and what you know about her. I know you’ve been on this site for awhile but I don’t know the story of your relationship. I just saw you are hurting and wanted to reach out. I’ve been in that place where you feel that you’ll have to live with the pain forever.

          3. ava101 says:


            I have a light blue metallic color changing to purple with hints of pink etc. with light changes / when moving. Maybe not really unicorn … ;D But yeah, there are all kinds of sets and colors with sparkles in them and labeled “unicorn” out there.

            This current narc wasn’t a real and long relationship, but I was living with him (as a house mate, though we had chatted before that) for a short while. But for some reason his behaviour and us getting involved hit me hard, probably reviving old stuff. And I really meant that with the addiction, I think he made it flare up again. But yes, I had a lucky escape!

            The person who had really destroyed me before was my ex-narc, whom I was involved with for about 5 years altogether. These two narcs are pretty different in their ways, though in others – very much alike. But that was what had confused me.

            So, the ex:
            With the current narc all I know is what he had told me … that she had just moved out 2 weeks ago, that they had broken up 4 weeks ago (at the time we met), but that the relationship had died a long time ago. He had always been faithful to her, he had only kissed someone else (…) during their 8 years together.
            He said she was very sad, heart broken, and wanted him back, it was his decision to break up, he told me, “she had made him grumpy because of her ways, though she was an extremely nice person, so she didn’t deserve that”.
            She had come to live with him in another country, gotten homesick, was still living there because of him, and then he made her move out and return to her country. When they had been talking about moving there, close to her family. He said, they had actually made the decision to move there, and there also had been talk about marriage. Him being British, her being from the EU, that was the reason (the UK exiting the EU presently – more or less *lol*).
            So, other that she also wasn’t allowed to sleep in his arms at night and they hadn’t had sex for a long time, and that she must be very caring, strong, and is almost a vegan, that’s all I know.
            But what made me think of her was
            a) when his friend came to visit he insisted on me not telling him anything about us, so he wouldn’t tell his ex … “not to hurt her unnecessarily” …. (I kindly declined, but also never talked with his friend.)
            b) that he said that they weren’t in contact at the moment, because that was better (for her) … … seemed like he refused any contact and didn’t want any contact, though claiming he was missing her.
            c) he had told me (for whatever reason) that he had visited another woman in another country (my home country) at the time his ex girlfriend was moving out. But when I was looking through our very first chats, I saw that he had been telling me that he had been there 1 month earlier! Which also makes a lot more sense. But this woman wasn’t writing with him so much, he said, that there wasn’t much going on. Anyways, either he had been there while still living with his ex, or he had lied about when she had moved out.
            d) he never ever went out to meet anyone else while I was living with him.
            e) he has only pictures of her on his computer, while their last messages sound like there was no connection between them at all, his responses where those of a stranger not even remotely interested …

            This all made me very suspicious, nothing adds up and I believe he needs other fuel now, so contacting her would be an option, esp. as she still has stuff of his (why actually … see, it doesn’t even make sense).
            He raised his hand towards me twice in only 3 weeks time, so I wondered what had really been going on with his ex. But if it’s true and after 8 years she still did want to be with him, then she can’t know what he is … and maybe believed all his “you made me do it” and “you’ve destroyed everything” crap.

            Towards me, there was triangulation and lies, obviously, but I am concerned about her, while I know I shouldn’t be. She hasn’t received my message on FB though.

            The ex of my ex-narc is a totally different story and fits perfectly what HG describes. The ex-narc claimed she had destroyed him, broken his heart, while she was his one and only ideal woman (like HG’s woman from school, the one who would heal everything), his great love, who had been sooo heartless to him. Then again, later, it turned out that he declined to let her get close to him, that he with her also went from kind of stalking her to telling her she wasn’t good enough for a relationship with him. Like … she was his ideal angel, but still not acting good enough for his standards … but he had told me in the beginning that if she would take him back, he would break up with me. Later he said the contrary.
            As far as I know (also other people had told me that), they had “broken up” years before we met, though.

            Strange how narcs tend to forget completely about the person who had been so important in their lives, and then one day decide to turn up unexpectantly to create a new hell ….

      2. ava101 says:

        An ex-lover of mine who also doesn’t have great empathy is more authistic. THAT I can kind of (kind of) understand. That he was NEVER out to hurt me. He truly didn’t understand why he had hurt me and really didn’t want to. He was honest with me – brutally honest.

        But the narcs in my life … they knew and just didn’t care, getting a kick out of it, provoking me on purpose.

      3. K says:

        Ditto Mercy
        And it allowed me to let go and move forward. I am not as angry as I used to be.

        1. Mercy says:

          K, I’ve let go of some of the anger too. You and others readers have been a huge help in this area

          1. K says:

            That’s a very good sign. When we interact on the blog, we are able to work through our emotions and understand exactly what the hell happened and move forward. It is a coping mechanism (To Control Is To Cope).

            And don’t be surprised if you feel disbelief, anger or sadness every once in awhile, that is completely normal and it comes and goes.

          2. Mercy says:

            K, I agree and I’ve found giving support is just as helpful. I still have lots to learn and many books of HGs to read but I can help with the emotional support of others.

            I do still feel disbelief, anger and sadness some days. It doesn’t control me anymore though. A few months ago my emotions would have convinced me to break NC. Still Rock solid as of today.

          3. K says:

            Keep up the good work and helping others is part of the healing process. The understanding and support here is phenomenal and, when you defer to logic over emption, that is a sure sign that you are getting better.

  4. Jenna says:

    Although the mid ranger over reacted, I think the wife should have addressed the fact that she could not answer the phone than to simply ignore it and ask him how he’s doing. He had a right to address this, but in a more healthy manner.

  5. Vera says:

    This is so good

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Yes. The best information you can get is right here.

  6. Jane hall says:

    Yes, they can never be wrong.

  7. ava101 says:

    Do you think that along the narcissistic spectrum … some mid rangers can be less severe? Is it more like – either one is a narcissist or one is not, or can some narc have not so very strong/deep features or traits?
    Is it possible that some who are intelligent and more prone to depression, etc, could be not so extreme narcissists and therefore possess a tiny bit of insight and the ability to reflect on their own behaviour? Or is that really always out of the question and any hope a delusion?

  8. ava101 says:

    I will never understand this and never be able to accept it, let alone deal with it. Everything in vain and absolutely nothing one can do or say.

  9. Cestas Jacarepaguá says:

    Hi, Mr. H.G, I’m not going to ask you, how are you? I do not want to hurt you (joking). I do not know for sure what kind of Narcissist I met was (somatico I’m sure), but I believe it’s a medium. I did not know him personally but incredible as it may seem to me from the beginning (less than two months of more continuous contact), I thought he was narcissistic. But I thought he was the common narcissist, not the inconvenient, and he was smart because when he kept showing his photos and told me in the car that I had, I hated it because I’m not a mercenary and I hate it when they think I have a price. When he realized that I liked generous people he got me hooked … but still I thought there were strange things. To start with, he told me that he was going to the UN (I do not like that den of Communists so he did not do very well in this), and other things, he spoke well of someone and subtly criticized, he thought it strange that a man about 42 years of age Mom’s mother (of course there are children who treat their mother like this but it’s unusual), and other things like my phone number go to the sex chat room (I mistrusted him even though I did not have anything that I was aware that I did it to provoke him). It was clear that sometimes the behavior was childish and forced sometimes (forced laughter). As for not knowing well what I was doing I do not know because he had already irritated me once and he realized how my temper is explosive, I hit the phone in his face and erased the message without hearing. After I left, he made another childish thing and I left him blocked for months, but knowing that it was like that sometimes for some laughter and some food for him (poor thing), I would send messages by placing him on the pedestal and wondering somebody getting like a peacock hahaha.

    When he came back to look for me (I already expected), I left a little to observe but I provoked him a few times and even realized that he always used the treatment of Silence and I even said this and he sent a liar audio and I unmasked him and he sent an extremely false audio, he spoke calmly, every word was clearly planned. I do not know how to hide what I am and what I think and then I told him that I was aware that even though I knew he would do me very badly I liked him and wanted his good but that he wanted distance and was tired of his games. I blocked it and this time it blocked me. I think he knew what he was doing because if I was wrong or I was crazy, I could have ignored it. He just did not say everything I know for fear of his reaction, even more that he lives nearby, knows where I live, my business, he knows a lot about my life and he’s a police officer. I think she gave up on me as a Muggle because she knows that I am answerable and I do not like to obey.

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