Seconds Out – Round One


I know a number of you ask about my interactions with the good doctors, Dr E and Dr O so I thought I would take you back. Way back. My first involvement with these people of medicine was not with Dr E or Dr O but a fellow who I shall refer to as Dr M. I thought I would take you back to my first meeting with Dr M. It was a cold winter’s day when I entered the elegant building where Dr M had his consulting rooms. They are in the same building as where I would later learn that Dr E and Dr O practise. I was shown into a drawing room which had an open fire but it was not lit. The room was warm nevertheless. Dr M was already sat in front of his expansive desk. He rose to greet me but I walked straight past him and sat in a chair. He tried not to look taken aback but I knew that he was. He sat down and adjusted his position as he placed his fingertips together creating a triangle and rested his hands on his chest. He was clearly trying to conjure up an image of intelligence. I was not impressed.

“Good morning Mr Tudor, I am Dr M. I will be working with you. Thank you for addressing the administrative details with my secretary, I appreciate it is a bit of a bind but the paperwork needs to be in place. I thought that today we could just have a general discussion rather than launch into specifics. A fireside chat if you will. I usually take notes but I am not going to do so today. So let me ask how are you?”

I said nothing. I looked at the doctor’s shoes. I noticed he was wearing Chelsea boots which interested me but not enough to comment on it. The doctor waited and I could hear a clock ticking in the room. It was somewhere behind me. There was no other sound. The walls in this old building were thick, not like the tissue and spit of modern constructions. The door was solid as well. No noise would be heard from beyond and I reasoned nobody would hear what was said in here either.

“I asked how are you?” the doctor repeated after a moment of waiting. I shifted my gaze to look at him but I still said nothing. He seemed unfazed by my silence.

“Very well. Let’s begin by discussing why you are with me today.”

I waited but there was no question. I remained silent. I looked over at Dr M’s desk. It was an antique partner’s made from mahogany and was inset with maroon leather. It was one of those large desks which had draws on both sides so that a partner, in whatever business it might be, would sit on one side and an underling, some kind of clerk, would sit directly opposite him sharing the desk. There was a large leather chair on the other side of the desk. The top of the desk bore a couple of books although I could not read the titles from where I was sat and a neat pile of papers. I could see a pen lying on its side also.

“I appreciate you do not want to be here but you are now. In order for us to help one another we do need to have a conversation,” said Dr M.

I flicked my gaze back at him and focussed on his suit. It was navy, heavy looking most likely wool. There was a pinstripe in the material. I wondered if he purchased two pairs of trousers with the suit. He looked like a man who spent a lot of time on his backside and this would mean the woollen crotch of his trousers would soon wear away. A second pair was a must. I glanced at Dr M’s crotch to try and ascertain if I could see a whole forming. A small opening in the trousers through which his doubtless white underwear could be viewed. So far the wool was holding out.

“Very well. Why don’t you tell me something about yourself?” he invited.

I was nonplussed earlier but now I was becoming bored. I let my eyes wander over to the fireplace. It was substantial and I thought it was a pity that there was no fire lit. I could see logs stacked up inside the fireplace but the flames were absent. No doubt it would contravene patient safety having a fire in here. I baulked at using the word patient. That was what he regarded me as. I was no patient. I was not some drooling imbecile wheeled in by white uniformed staff and followed by anxious relatives. I was no drink-addled half-wit whose brain had turned to mush through years of alcohol abuse so he would routinely soil himself. Those were the type of degenerates, admittedly well-looked after degenerates that normally came to these places.

“Whenever you are ready Mr Tudor,” he gave me a short smile which I assume was meant to reassure me. I looked at him again and fixed him with a stare. Interestingly he met my gaze. His expression was not challenging not was it threatening. He just looked at me as I looked at him. He glanced towards his desk and then moved slightly in his seat. Yes he was prone to fidgeting, that crotch would soon be worn away on that suit. His shirt was white which amused me. Only police officers and airline pilots wear white shirts. Even though I could see it was expensive it should not have been white. I did notice that it was double-cuffed so that was something at least. Single cuff would have generated scorn and heaven forbid he wore a short-sleeve shirt under a suit jacket I would have walked straight out.

“We have plenty of time, so just when you are comfortable.”

Indeed we did have plenty of time. Two hours’ worth thanks to the power of my parents’ cheque book. So the pair of us sat in that grand drawing room with the absent fire and let two hours pass in complete silence. Dr M said nothing more as he waited for me to speak and I said nothing more as I had nothing to say to him. I concentrated on using my silence to make him feel uncomfortable. I could tell by the way he kept shifting in his seat he wanted to speak or listen. He made to speak on several occasions but something prevented him from doing so. I occupied my thoughts with planning the rest of my day and also how I might entice his frosty looking but obviously hugely efficient secretary into my world. I ran through a variety of scenarios which made the time pass rather quickly. I was almost taken by surprised when Dr M cleared his throat and spoke.

“Well our time is at end this week Mr Tudor. I shall see you again next week same day and the same time. Good day,” he said pleasantly as he rose from his seat.

I said nothing. I walked past him and headed to the door as the surge began inside me.

Round one to HG.

119 thoughts on “Seconds Out – Round One

  1. Deepweb says:

    “An impressive share! I have just forwarded this onto a coworker who had been doing a little
    homework on this. And he actually ordered me dinner simply because
    I found it for him… lol. So allow me to reword this….
    Thank YOU for the meal!! But yeah, thanks for spending some time to discuss
    this topic here on your blog.”

  2. princesssuperempath says:

    Dearest HG: Wow! That Doctor was tough! I am amazed he did not threaten you to speak, by saying something like: [ I believe there’s a misunderstanding about what has to go on here, and if you are going to refuse to speak, I will not be able to work with you. I will be right back. I will give you some time to gather your thoughts. Would you like me to bring you anything to drink? No comment? All right, I will be right back.] And then after about 7 minutes or so, the doctor would return and try to engage you again in conversation. You both were tough, though. Aggressive present silent treatment from you, and steadfast tenacity on his part to wait you out, during the session. You won that round, but he seems to be a contender. My goodness.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      ‘I could have been a contender’.


      HG prevails.

      1. princesssuperempath says:

        Hahahaha! Touche`

    2. NarcAngel says:

      That might work with some, but threatening a narcissist? That just plays into their hands. Besides, it’s not HG’s idea to be there in the first place and he is not the one paying, so why would the doctor want that gravy train to end by threatening not to work with him? Hell, that wouldn’t even work with me and I’m not a narcissist.

      1. Narc Angel. I know that you know that money is just not everything to some people. Myself especially. Sometimes it is just not worth it. Peace of mind can be priceless, at least very valuable. Sometimes we all have to: Just Say No. At least, I do.

  3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Your attention to detail, discerning taste, appreciation of fine quality, possessing stamina, patience, composure, making him feel uncomfortable, restless and lost for words ….I really can’t see the problem
    I’d say you were brilliant!
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am and thank you.

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        My pleasure
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  4. Renarde says:

    Two hour therapy appointment? Wow, that IS unusual! The standard is 50 minutes. Any more than that and you fry your brain (therapist or client).

    Truth is; the Dr won. He did not have to engage his brain once and therefore was paid for two hours to do precisely diddly squat.

    HG mentions the Dr fidgeting etc and sometimes wanting to speak but did not do so.

    I had a conversation today with a friend on body language and I do think that HG rightly points out that the situation was unnerving for the therapist But that’s not winning.

    Fact is, one cannot be ‘forced’ into therapy which HG proves. Again, in this convo with my friend, I recounted a tale where I had asked for counselling from my GP. Six months later, I’m offered a slot. She was not a good therapist. She would not let me barely get a word in edge-ways. That was 2009. I left the sessions more confused and perplexed before I started. Hindsight? A narc. MRN. Prob a somatic judging by the admiration from one of the Drs at the surgery.

    She did offer one gem of advice which I follow today; if you have problems in any relationship, always go back and revisit how it started. At that point in time I was just about starting to come to terms with NPD abuse and the impact on my life. But she was right. There were MASSIVE flags there at the start which I ignored. His propensity to violence, his reputation on campus as ‘strange’, saying he could be a ‘gun for hire’. I just thought he was a bit…well… eccentric. Fuck, I was only barely 20! He of course, never hurt me. Or insulted me, devalued me. None of that nonsense as I was firmly in GT, innit?

    Over the years I have learned to spot a good therapist from a bad egg. A good one will push me. My last was a diamond and took no shit from me. She challenged me and I know that I need that type of strong counsellor. Others may collapse. Horses for courses. A ‘bad’ one won’t necessarily be incompetent but sometimes, too much empathy is not good. It’s not constructive. A truly bad one is how I have described; they like the sound of their own voice too much. Or even worse, tell clients to break a (usually) parental NC so they can ‘talk it out’.

    Either way, the whole good doctor set up is strange. Really strange.

  5. SMH says:

    I can understand why the doubtless white underwear would make you lose respect for him, HG. But petulant much? It can take awhile to find a shrink that you like. In any case, Dr M got paid. You might have won against your parents but Dr M won against you.

  6. Christopher Jackson says:

    I’m lost on this one hg how did you win? Is it because he asked to speak and you did not ..? Do tell

  7. Maddox says:

    Mr Tudor.
    You have a weakness. Are you aware of it? You don’t seem to. I find this intriguing of the highly intelligent psychopathic mind. Your so incredibly intelligent. Absolutely a brilliant mind, but you have a blind spot….or 2. Possibly 3 depending on if you are aware of them.
    It has been my unfortunate luck to be at the receiving end of more than one psychopath or sociopath’s darker side of their psyche as a child. The inclination to murder rape etc is not necessarily a always a psychopath I’m aware. Those experiences taught me to observe closely. To locate the weak point if ever i discover I’m in danger i can escape. I do it automatically. When i enter a room i know how many exits there are, cameras, men, police atc are present. Where i sit at dinner has a defense strategy behind it. I am surprised…… but not surprised… that your weak point is so evident. My narc has the same weakness. Now i can use it to escape. Thank you.
    I hope you are made whole one day.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yet you wholly fail to state what it is.

      1. Renarde says:

        Ha! Ha! Saw what you did there!

      2. princesssuperempath says:

        Ditto. I was waiting to hear about the weakness and so kept reading. …I feel led on. And there are so many posts to read, to be led on.

    2. Kara says:

      I am also wondering what you see as a weak point?

    3. flutterbymorpho says:

      What is it?

  8. Kathleen says:

    PS – I’m wearing a white dress shirt today- I now am re-thinking the entire opinion I had of white shirts. Just yesterday I was thinking I better get a new one when I go shopping for some new spring clothes…I think I’ll stick with pink,light yellow, etc—🙃

  9. Joanne says:

    How old were you when you first began therapy?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      An adult

      1. Sniglet says:

        He was about 43 – hardly an adult.

      2. Joanne says:

        That’s a very vague, narc like answer 😂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You think?!!

  10. Lou says:

    Are you still in contact with Dr M, HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, Lou.

      1. Lou says:

        Ok, thanks. I asked because I read somewhere there’s a third psychologist you have contact with.

        1. FYC says:

          Hi Lou, You may be referring to my comment on a different post. I had asked HG about his new dynamic and as part of his reply, he said due to his travels of late, he converses with an appointed psychologist while traveling versus the good doctors. If I misinterpreted this I apologize.

          1. Kara says:

            FYC are you male or female?

          2. Lou says:

            Hi FYC. Yes, that’s the comment I was referring to. It was the first time I read about his appointed psychologist, so I wondered if said psychologist was Dr M. However, I can imagine that HG would have shown more (fake) willingness to cooperate with (and so manipulate) a (court?) appointed psychologistt, which was clearly not the case with Dr M. But Ithought about that after I asked the question and I wanted the answer anyway.

          3. Lou says:

            But now that I think about it, HG’s “I don’t need therapy, I am no patient, you are an idiot and beneath me anyway” attitude, could also be used with an appointed psychologist. As always, I do not have enough information.

        2. K says:

          I thought the same thing after I read FYC’s comment.

          MARCH 11, 2019 AT 11:05
          Hello HG, You are most welcome. It is a useful model. Are you still seeing the same doctors?

          HG Tudor
          MARCH 11, 2019 AT 11:08
          Thank you. Yes, I am, albeit less often than I have done owing to my increased travelling that is taking place nowadays. I keep in touch with my privately appointed psychologist through Skype more often.

          1. FYC says:

            K, thanks for finding that. Since HG describes the good doctors as psychiatrists (which entails a medical degree), a psychologist (non md and MS/PhD not required) would be a third individual. That said many people use the terms interchangeably. HG is usually precise in his communications, .
            SEPTEMBER 28, 2015 HG TUDOR 6 COMMENTS
            One of my other psychiatrists, I call her Doctor O (she is obsessed with me – I don’t think that’s very professional…”

          2. K says:

            My pleasure FYC!
            Thanks for looking up the terminology, I have made a note of it.

          3. FYC says:

            Hi K, do you keep a database on your research? Hope you are enjoying your weekend!

          4. K says:

            Ha ha ha…I have Narc Notes and, when I feel comfortable with what I have learned, I delete them to make room for new notes. I accidentally deleted all my damn hoover notes and a new and improved Empath Limerick that I was woking on. I was not a happy camper after that.

          5. K says:


            My weekend is great and I hope yours is as well!

          6. FYC says:

            Correction: After a google search, a licensed therapist requires a masters degree, but not a PhD. A licensed psychologist requires a PhD. A psychiatrist requires a medical degree.

          7. Mercy says:

            FYC, You have my head spinning haha. I’m going to ask forgiveness in advance when I get this wrong in future comments. I’m not good at keeping titles straight.

          8. FYC says:

            Lol Mercy, granted! I was trying to explain why I thought there were a total of 3 professionals with two different types of credentials that HG sees. I meant to be accurate and not confuse. Maybe less is better 😉

          9. Mercy says:

            FYC, Haha you do what you do. I enjoy reading your informative comments. They give me much to think about.

          10. Lou says:

            Thanks K! Reading the comment again, it became clear to me this third psychologist can’t be Dr M. The privately appointed part suggests it was HG who chose to work with him (maybe to make sure he is getting a fair, neutral opinion and so check on the GD).
            I guess this third psychologist may be a new element we know little about.
            Thanks again.

          11. K says:

            My pleasure Lou!
            After reading what you and FYC wrote, I wanted to reread it for clarification. It helps keep the information straight.

          12. FYC says:

            K, A limerick? Gotta see that! Are you Mac or PC? It is likely recoverable if you have not reformatted the drive. Also need app you used. Then I’ll post the fix.

          13. K says:

            Thank you FYC
            Mac; I love Apple. My son put Microsoft Word on my computer, so all my notes were on Word and then Poof! The hoover notes disappeared. I was like: WTF! The computer shut down after the plug was pulled and I lost some stuff.

            All my narc notes are in Notes now and I am comfortable with hoovers so I don’t really need them anymore. I will get moving on that empath Limerick.

          14. FYC says:

            Hi K, Thanks for the clarification.

            First, if the Word document was unsaved, do this:
            If it was saved, check your trash. If you have emptied your trash, do this:
            If neither of these work, you can use this tool:
            For note recovery do this:

          15. K says:

            Thank you FYC!
            I copied and pasted your comment into my notes.

        3. FYC says:

          Hi Lou, Thanks for the reply. Do you think it is that, or could it be HG behaves the way he does in answer to Matrinarc’s imposed control? I am reminded of what HG said about his need for control because there was a time when he had none (due to the narcissistic abuse during his childhood). Or perhaps his grand design is the greater underlying architecture of all of his actions in appointed therapy. Regardless, he has stated he has learned from the process and desires to maintain his new dynamic. So perhaps his knowledge acquisition assists in those efforts as well. I hope so.

          I too am curious about the reason(s) for imposed/mandated therapy. It would necessitate some form of leverage, as I can’t imagine HG allowing another’s mandate of anything unless it was in his interest to do so. Either court ordered or perhaps threat of disinheritance? None of my business really, but I hope at some point HG can get even more distance from his seriously toxic Matrinarc.

          1. Lou says:

            Hi FYC: Yes, need for control is always there; it is at the core of NPD, as I have learned here. I was just trying to guess about the circumstances of this first consultation with Dr M. I think I should stop guessing and just wait for the book to be published. But I can tell you quickly the information I have gathered here and there.
            HG was accused of a criminal act, which seems to be tax related. HG sustains these accusations are false. Now, I don´t know exactly who accused him but it seems it could be his own relatives (at least they are involved). The condition his family and/or whoever is involved in the accusations imposed for him to avoid jail was therapy. He accepted but, as you can see in this post, was angry and fighting back. He has spoken of a cabal against him (read the post Dolus Malus Prologue) of ten people who are conspiring against him. It seems one of the GD may be part of it, or at least cooperated with them (that is my assumption). However, the story keeps unfolding and evolving.
            I do not know how this privately appointed therapy works. I do not know who chose the GD as his psychiatrists and I have no idea who the third therapist is. I was just guessing and kind of “thinking aloud”, something I should probably stop doing.
            There are many details to this story but, as you have rightly said, it is ultimately none of our business, and I think readers should concentrate more in their own entanglement with their N and how to free themselves from them.
            I think that is the reason why HG does not publish the posts about this story very often. But now that we are reading about it, it is hard not to speculate.

          2. SMH says:

            Lou and FYC, I could be wrong but I was under the impression that HG’s family has held the threat of not getting his inheritance over his head if he did not seek help. I am not sure what he did to provoke them, but I imagine it was a pattern of behavior and not one thing in particular. Tax evasion is not exactly uncommon in the UK, one of the money-laundering capitals of the world.

          3. Lou says:

            SMH, you’re right about the inheritance threat and the pattern of behaviour. But I know he was also charged of a criminal act which he says he didn’t commit. I think one thing led to another one.

          4. K says:

            SMH and Lou
            This comment is located on About. There are 1,120 comments and it isolated in the middle threads.

            NOVEMBER 26, 2017 AT 13:13
            Hello HG. Can I ask, what forced you into treatment? I am very interested in how to help my husband. Thank you for this outlet.

            HG Tudor
            NOVEMBER 27, 2017 AT 12:44
            1. The need to secure my inheritance.
            2. The need to avoid the distraction of spurious criminal and regulatory investigations.
            3. The need to advance the Grand Design.
            4. The need to learn more about myself.

            My reasons are unique. Do not think that you will be able to achieve the same with your husband.


          5. Lou says:

            Thanks a lot, K! That is very kind of you.

          6. K says:

            My pleasure, Lou!

          7. SMH says:

            K, Regulatory investigations does sound like something to do with taxes – probably offshore holdings for his company but I am just speculating! ha. Thanks for the comments and link.

          8. K says:

            My pleasure, SMH
            I thought of Martha Stewart when I read regulatory investigations.

          9. SMH says:

            Ah yes, K. She spent time in the slammer. And then there is Bernie Madoff. Hmmm. Insider trading? Ponzi schemes? But the UK is known for its offshore tax havens so my bet is on that.

          10. K says:

            SMH and Lou
            Located not isolated; autocorrect is dumb (devaluation).

          11. Lou says:

            FYC; just want to add that the assumptions I was making about why HG behaved the way he did with Dr M were done before I read that Dr M was in contact with his mother and relatives. I thought Dr M had been appointed by a third party, an authority and therefore was trying to see his behaviour from that perspective.

          12. FYC says:

            Hey Lou, Understood. No worries. It is challenging to piece together all the bits of data from different posts and comments for a broader view. I miss many but I’m always learning more. Thank goodness for K’s links!

          13. FYC says:

            Hi Lou, thanks so much for all that! That was very kind of you. I vaguely remember HG saying in a live Q & A that he was arrested once and took legal action against the charges and prevailed. This is the first I’ve heard of the tax issue. If that is the reason it was pure manipulation via threat. Wow. I have so much empathy for HG. All the horrible abuse brings me to tears. That said, though I have tried to comprehend his perspective, I fail. All I can come up with is that his fury and cruelty for fuel must be a bit of a valve release for the collective abuse/trauma he has endured (plus the different outlook due to psychopathy). I feel guilty speculating. I am a believer in honoring privacy (my earlier comment was not aimed at you, but me), but HG did share these bits with the world so I hope he is not offended.

            I appreciate your help, Lou.

          14. FYC says:

            Thank you, SMH! I guessed that one as it’s a common narc theme. Thank you for the confirmation. Hope it’s enough money to be worth the added abuse. Seems like the doctors are bleeding out the inheretence fund early 😉
            Given the tax rate in the UK, your comment there it is not too surprising.

        4. Sniglet says:

          Lou – I refer to your comment “However, the story keeps unfolding and evolving…” what has unfolded and evolved since the beginning of 2018 to now?

          1. Lou says:

            Singlet, what I meant is that this story is probably still unfolding in HG’s life. We do not get the information because it is still not over. It was in July 2018 when he started to write about Dolus Malus.

          2. Lou says:

            Of course, I may be wrong. Maybe the story is over and HG just doesn’t have time to write it. I doubt it’s over though.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            I had a question about that and HG answered on The Narcissist’s Pledge To You Jan 24th.

          4. Lou says:

            Thanks NA. Well, I guess we’ll have to wait and see if Norway’s breathtaking scenery will inspire HG to write Dolus Malus. Or bore him and make him move back to Hell’s Headquarters and write against his enemies.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            I’m guessing it won’t be until he is firmly back in his volcano.

          6. Lou says:

            Just kidding HG.

          7. NarcAngel says:

            About Dolus Malus I mean.

          8. Lou says:

            Are you the same Sniglet that used to post here a while ago?

          9. Sniglet says:

            I hope it comes to an end soon to his satisfaction. The articles about his interactions with his doctors are the most fascinating and hope to read more of those. Yes it is me.

          10. Narc noob says:

            Perhaps he is writing about something that has already occurred as well? I’m not sure how one keeps this under lock and key in this day and age.

  11. Sarah Jane says:

    Mr Tudor, could we please have the pleasure of an entire article based on the thoughts of how, exactly, would you entice that frosty secretary in to your world? Soon, because this cucumber goes out of date on the 3rd of April.

  12. Sarah Jane says:

    Dr M. Dr Martins. Dr Martin’s boots. Dr Martin’s boots to the metaphorical ball-sack.

    Smashin’. Super. Great.

  13. Kathleen says:

    HG- thank you for this description. I’m assuming this is the very first time people tried to “fix” you.
    Why were you sent to this doctor? What specific behaviors caused your prents to set this up? I’m assuming you were under 20 years old.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, there have been weak attempts previously.

      The reasons why I was ‘sent’ to these doctors has been described previously, so please do seek out the articles and comments relating to the doctors to save my fingers!

  14. J.G THE ONE says:

    Hello, H.G. Tudor.
    What was the point or reason that finally moved you to start some kind of treatment or decided to talk to them.
    On the other hand, I wonder. You feel comfortable talking and posting post with us Empathic victims. Because he started doing it.
    I guess mainly for the three obvious reasons.
    Character traits
    Added benefits.
    But this relationship with your readers, our comments, helps you in something? We reduce in some way your need for fuel and your Machiavellian malignancy?
    Although most of the comments can be classified as positive fuel. And considering their need to contrast with negative fuel. You need to make your machinations and manipulations more malignant. Or you’re in it right now.
    How did you get up today malignant or benign?
    These are questions that I may not answer, but they arouse my curiosity. I would love for you to get all the necessary fuel through this platform and never get bored of it and not need its malignancies. Although I believe that this will be a utopian dream… I hope that his treatment has lowered his need for fuel.

  15. Kara says:

    Hg, do you prefer the term “client” to patient?

    It’s popular amongst younger clinicians to say client here in the states. I hate it. Clients are for lawyers and car dealers. Sounds so cold and impersonal. To me patient is a much warmer term.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I prefer Your Majesty, far more fitting.

      1. Cindy says:

        LOL! Kara, you waltzed right into that one. Sneaky HG.

        1. Kara says:

          hahaha, I surely did

    2. flutterbymorpho says:

      Maybe Service user? lol thats the term today in the U.K.

      1. Kara says:

        Is it really?? What an awkward phrase!

        1. flutterbymorpho says:

          Kara, no not entirely. ‘service user’ is for certain situations e.g. someone in supported living or care homes with carers type thing. People with support workers or carers.
          I was being a little bit cheeky 🙂

          Still a ‘patient’ at doctors & psychiatrist (I think) I’m not sure about private sector psychotherapy and the like.. maybe ‘client’ is used if paying privately ??

      2. blackunicorn123 says:

        The UK is full of shit at the moment!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          True. That’s because I’m not there.

          1. SMH says:

            HG, can’t you do something about this stupid Brexit mess and joke of a government? Sheer incompetence. They need someone like you to sort it out.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I agree. It’s an omnishambles.

          3. SMH says:

            Why thank you for the new word. Omnishambles. I always use shambolic but happy to have a variation.

          4. blackunicorn123 says:

            Never in doubt.

  16. Kaif says:

    Hg Tudor your works are outstanding i have been reading all of your works since a very long time. But there is a question pop up in my mind since because I’m dealing with my greater narcissist and he has blocked me everything his mobile number, Whatsapp account wherever I can contact him. It’s because one month ago I tried to escape telling him to block me and he did. And he lives far from me there we cannot meet each other on the regular basis. We connect only over phone and WhatsApp. But I’m blocked from everything. I’ve talked him 4 days ago by using different app and he was saying to me he have a girlfriend right now and told me to find a boyfriend, live my life by my own term and whenever he wants to talk with me he will unblock me. I’ve told him I’ll never call him he said ok. After that we haven’t talked with each other but I didn’t go no contact. I’m just crying I can’t do any work. Why he said that or will he hoover me? If I call him will any way will he take me on formal relationship or I’m painted black now?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Kaif, there is more information I require from you, in particular to ascertain what type of narcissist you are dealing with as I note you state the individual is a Greater, but this is unlikely. In order to assist you to the fullest extent and also provide you with the most relevant information I recommend that you arrange a consultation with me. Please see the menu bar for details as to how you can do that.

  17. Kara says:

    “…clearly trying to conjure up an image of intelligence. I was not impressed.” 😂😂😂 Dying

    Thanks for this HG! I really enjoyed hearing about your thought process throughout, especially your assessment of his trousers. Too funny.

    I must say I probably would have acted very, very similarly to Dr. M if I were he in this encounter. And I would’ve been squirming from your persistent silence.

    I’ve had patients attempt a silence stand off with me but no one lasts anywhere near that long. Makes most people too anxious. Well played!

  18. Cindy says:

    HG, Will we soon be reading ?
    GD: 0
    HG: 16

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ha ha, undoubtedly Cindy.

  19. Leolita says:

    Haha, this is funny, you are very good at depiction. Looking forward to the story of the Good doctors and why you decided to speak with them.

    1. Kara says:

      Leolita, I don’t think he’s specified precisely why he’s seeing them but it seems to include some kind of ultimatum made by his family. He is not interested in getting better.

      1. Narc noob says:

        Yes, that is what I have come to understand. There’s a bigger part though. Nothing that HG does would be solely for another, there has to be something in it for himself. He speaks about a grand plan(? wrong word) elsewhere. Seemingly handing over control only to take it back swiftly when the time is right.

        1. Kara says:

          I feel like we are missing a ton of details, Noob. I hope they’re elaborated one day. I honestly can’t imagine what kind of grand plan necessitates seeing two doctors and not pretending to want to get better.

          Also wonder what part the blog is meant to play. I know he said his doctors knew about it and thought it would be a good exercise for him to interact with potential victims (Without ever victimizing them) in this forum.

  20. kel says:

    He should’ve talked to you, he should’ve chatted away, you’d be more apt to say something then if he accidentally provoked you. It’s interesting to read what a narcissist thinks about during a silence.

  21. mollyb5 says:

    HG , were you told to go to this doctor by …a family member ? So you choose the other doctors yourself ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Yes.
      2. No.

  22. Claire says:

    How long seeing the docs before starting the blog?

  23. veronicajones1969 says:

    HG have you ever seen Good Wii Hunting this reminds me of a scene in it it’s a brilliant movie , you have obviously come along way since then at least on this site you are very open and honest with us

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I know of it but I’ve not seen it.

    2. mai51 says:

      Ha! That was the movie I was watching when my ex-narc first showed his true colours. He had zero interest in it, so became a bored, petulant little child.

      Perhaps the movie triggered him?

      (Although in Good Will Hunting, the protagonist is at least trying to score points with his perceived superior intelligence and banter, rather than trying to win by silence)

      1. Kara says:

        Honestly that movie drives me nuts. I hate how the whole message is “if you just careeee hard enough it saves patients.” It doesn’t work like that, unfortunately.

        I do think HG “won” this situation because the doctor was rendered completely impotent by the silence. Had HG bantered, a la good will hunting, he would’ve given the doctor a chance to have an effect on him, to feel effective, thereby validating that the doctor matters, which is a large part of what doctors want, to feel effective with their patients.

        I know I’ve said this before but you cannot “win” at banter with a good therapist. The therapist will not get into it with you because as a therapist it’s not helpful to position yourself at odds with a patient.

        1. WhoCares says:


          I’m curious how you believe that HG ‘won’ in that exchange? It took a bit but Dr. M also maintained the silence.

          Also, I’m curious about your take on ‘banter’…

          “you cannot “win” at banter with a good therapist. The therapist will not get into it with you because as a therapist it’s not helpful to position yourself at odds with a patient.”

          I don’t think that banter necessarily puts people at odds – depends on the nature of the banter. My therapist engages in banter with me and it helps my self-confidence because it validates that she considers me an equal and that I have an equal amount of power and ability to improve my own situation.

          1. WendyRhoades says:

            Hi WhoCares,

            This is Kara. I changed my name because I’m telling my life story in the comments section of another post and think it’s time for just a touch of discretion.

            I think HG won for the reason I stated before. By HG being silent the doctor was made to feel incompetent. Of course, my belief assumes that the doctor in fact felt incompetent and we cannot say that for sure. He may have been inwardly rolling his eyes at HG for wasting his parents’ money on an expensive shrink and not putting the time to good use.

            I think it is more likely that the doctor felt incompetent based on my experience with patients (I’m a psychotherapist). More than a few minutes of silence can be tough. I had a kid silent for 40 minutes on our first session. When I realized we had 5 minutes left I started feeling bad, getting nervous, feeling like his silence was a reflection on me. I ended up coaxing him into speaking to assuage my own fears that I wasn’t doing my job well. It turned out he was high on marijuana and scared I would notice and tell his parents. Poor thing. Obviously I didn’t and we moved on to have a great relationship but yeah, I was squirming after 40 minutes of silence.

            It sounds like we’re using the words ‘banter’ differently. What you’re describing, playful back and forth, is great! What I’m thinking of that I think isn’t helpful is when a patient criticizes a therapist and the therapist defends himself rather than welcome the criticism, or the patient asserts something about himself that is self destructive and the therapist tries to get him to change, despite the patient’s verbal or behavioral indication that he doesn’t want to change.

            What do you think?

          2. WhoCares says:

            Well, that’s just it, WendyRhoades, we can only infer Dr. M’s thoughts from HG’s description of his body language and limited spoke words. Maybe Dr. M felt that he himself had won because he also managed to maintain the silence (eventually) instead of filling the silence out of discomfort or feeling a failure for not playing his professional role appropriately. Maybe, if he felt the way I just described than perhaps HG won by *letting* Dr. M feel as though he were the winner…
            We actually do not know if the doctor felt incompetent and as you said, you are basing that belief on your own experience in private practice.

            And, agreed, we were using the term banter differently, but the context that you used the word in seemed to suggest banter as competitive or confrontational (use of the words “win” and the phrase “at odds”):

            “you cannot “win” at banter with a good therapist. The therapist will not get into it with you because as a therapist it’s not helpful to position yourself at odds with a patient.”

            I actually didn’t describe how I meant “banter” but it was closer to the commonly held understanding of the word as you described:

            “What you’re describing, playful back and forth, is great!”

            In addition to that, I also meant (in my relationship with my therapist) something closer to professional banter, as I in, I can effectively discuss narcissism with her as a direct result of my learning here.

            Thank-you for making note of your name change and for reminding me of your profession. I made the comment with the knowledge that you are a psychotherapist – as I have read the thread in MatriNarc and had left a comment to you there.

          3. WendyRhoades says:

            I didn’t realize that DV and drunk driving were the sole territory of Lessers. Why do you have to go, HG?

          4. WhoCares says:


            There’s nothing obnoxious about talking about your profession or being passionate about it. Just many here don’t lead with sharing their profession. That stood out to me, but I was enjoying your comments.

            What therapeutic modality do you use in your private practice?

            I agree with you; the continued interaction between HG and the ‘good doctors’ is also a source of fascination for me.

        2. mai51 says:

          Kara, I totally agree…. I should have left out the words “at least”.

          1. WendyRhoades says:

            Hi Whocares,

            I feel like I’m coming across as obnoxious by talking about my profession, but it is a big part of my identity and the lens through which I see the world, including this site. I don’t feel like my comments are more valuable than anyone else’s because of my profession.

            I think it’s great your therapist encourages you to develop your own understanding of narcissism and challenge hers. I’m sure that feels validating, especially if you’ve had the experience of having your reality contorted by a narc.

            Im dying to know the full story of HG’s involvement with the mental health professionals. People are suggesting it’s court mandated. I did not get that impression but it would make sense if he’s got a domestic violence or drunk driving charge. Still would not explain his mother’s involvement in it.

            On the other hand this blog is triggering for me. God bless all the folks he’s helped but I swear getting into HG’s world gives me nightmares

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Domestic violence? Drink driving? I’m not a Lesser.

          3. SMH says:

            lol HG. Trust you to defend yourself from ‘lesser’ charges.

        3. WendyRhoades says:

          Thanks, WhoCares. In retrospect it’s not surprising there was some backlash for leading with my profession but it was still a fun discussion.

          I practice relational psychoanalytic psychotherapy. Super simplified, relationalists differ from Freudian analysts by our emphasis on the role relationships play in development. Whereas Freud believed that behavior is aimed at satisfying internal drives or instincts, relationalists believe that behavior is informed by how the people around us respond to us, beginning with our early primary care givers.

          I still use a lot of Freudian interventions like dream interpretation and insight, but what I really like is that the analyst is not assumed to be the expert. It’s an egalitarian model where we assume that the patients transference is based on something real, rather than pure projection.

          It seems like HG is benefiting from his therapy now because he said that he doesn’t see SM as an appliance and that is thanks to the good docs. He also in one entry said he feels like they or one of them care about him.

          That’s so sweet. It’s incredibly encouraging to me that he can use the therapy at all productively. Personality disorders are said to be very resistant to treatment, some say incurable. I would love for that to not be the case

    3. Sarah Jane says:

      I think I recall you saying that the man who directed Good Will Hunting once did some garden work for you though, Mr Tudor?

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