Poll : What Aspect Of The Narcissist´s Behaviour Has Hurt You?



Entanglement with our kind hurts.

Be it social, business, familial and most of all romantic, there will always be pain involved.

Some pain occurs during the engagement, other times it comes with knowledge thereafter. The hurt is inevitable.

Were you hurt because you realised that this person you loved with everything you had actually did not love you? Do you still struggle to accept that? Perhaps it is the fact that the narcissist doesn’t actually love your children – the complete innocents? Then again, it might be because you cannot grasp how someone who appeared to be so wonderful could turn into that hate-filled monster that hit you, tormented you and then left without saying a good bye?

Which ever it was, or if it was more than one, do choose more than one before you cast your vote and as ever, do expand in the comments section on your experiences.

Thank you for participating.


What element of the narcissist's behaviour has hurt you the most?

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141 thoughts on “Poll : What Aspect Of The Narcissist´s Behaviour Has Hurt You?

  1. Veronique Jones says:

    Realising that they never cared about me and that I had opened up to them and I gave them the information to and they used it to hurt me the lies and betrayal are the hardest part for me

  2. an_eternal_student says:

    One other point of contention that wasn’t mentioned was the narcissist’s inability to follow through. I don’t like to consider myself a nag or having to remind someone to do something they said they would do.
    A reminder would be perceived as a criticism and it would break my heart that on one hand I had been dismissed or forgotten or on the other told it was no longer going to take place because I felt the need to remind them after weeks of patiently waiting.
    Presenting themselves as healthy, well adjusted, balanced and emotionally available people who want nothing more than to warm us by the warmth of their light when in fact it is a giant moth suckling at the teat of our core is heart wrenching.
    My greatest hurt has been in the aftermath. Picking up whats left after the wreckage of another narcissistic type storm. Each day is a new level of acceptance about being alone; grieving the desperation I have felt because I couldn’t perceive myself without being in a relationship. I am addicted to the ideals and romance of being taken care of. The reality for me is only the sick, emotionally devoid, maladjusted & imbalanced seem to be drawn to people with these needs. Now I’m withdrawing from hope, the belief of eternal love and any idea of being able to depend on anyone in a romantic way.
    I cry every day for unfulfilled dreams that may never see the light of day. One day at a time this will look different. Maybe one day I won’t need an intimate, a soul mate, an empassioned ember that can meet my heat. I’m afraid to know how I will feel if I reach this goal. Will I be dead inside or will I be free?
    There is a way out away from you bastards and I will find it and when I do, I win.

  3. Jenna says:

    That narcs can be so wonderful and then so cruel, and that I was such a fool. An option that was not on the list- that I mistook addiction as love. We all do it. We see it in movies. We read about it in novels. We hear about it in songs, so we think it is love. It is not. It is an addiction, due to the increased levels of dopamine and oxytocin that the entanglement causes.

    If it is true love, then set it free. If he’s found someone else, let him be happy. Let him go. But we can’t, because it’s not true love. Just like a narc likes our fuel, an empath likes the “love” and affection the narc provides her. True love is giving without expecting anything in return. If God forbid, the narc became brain dead and paralyzed, and the empath was taking care of him at home, would we still feel like fighting against the ipss for his attention? Or would we gladly say “ok he’s yours now.” The narc provides the empath with validation because we may be lacking it in other areas of our life. That is what we are addicted to. We are not “in love.”

    Disclaimer: I used the pronoun “we” because I don’t like to personalize my story anymore, because I am that regretful of it. However, I absolutely realize that I am talking about some people only, and not all people. Someone else may have a very different experience. Thank you for reading.

  4. santaann1964 says:

    Everyone in here is so important to our healing process! Thank you

  5. santaann1964 says:

    The prostitutes and his twisted sexuality. Hiding behind me or being with me so people would respect him because the same people respected me! Actually the whole dam twisted facade of a totally false personality!

  6. E. B. says:

    I voted The narcissist hurt people that you love.
    Unspeakable cruel acts inflicted on innocent victims who are already suffering and cannot defend themselves.

  7. candacemarie1212 says:

    That the narcissist never actually meant any of it
    That the narcissist could be so wonderful and then so cruel
    That the narcissist never actually loved me
    So much was promised and never happened

    That the narcissist made you someone who you aren’t
    You feel such a fool for believing in the idea of you and the narcissist

    When I first realized my ex was a N I was hurt and devastated that he never loved me. I felt like I had just wasted years on someone who could care less about me. Also, I felt like a fool for falling for someone like that. I wanted to go back and change things. It’s not listed here but the thing that still hurts me is that I let him near my daughter. I worry about any negative effects it could have on her in the future. She seems to be doing great and my therapist said that she would be showing signs if anything bad did happen.
    HG just wondering, do you like the people on this blog or do you hate everyone?

  8. Omj says:

    What has hurt me the most has also healed me the most .
    The first time he «  replaced » or «  misplaced » me out of the weekend time for this woman who was only available in weekends ( meaning she had to wake up too early for him ) .
    I went into an abandonment crisis and really went very back and low into a large supposedly sealed wound.
    I had to seek help … it was the beginning of my lo g healing journey.
    Now – I have met a really nice man – that is my next battle – sticking to the unfamiliar – a non Narc.
    Funny enough Narc is being nice and close suddenly.
    It’s all happening at once and I will take the right decision. I am getting to know this new man- slowly – taking my time – once a week – slowly.

  9. Kimi says:

    Wasting years, my youth and destroying my belief in true love is what hurt me the most!

  10. Sweetest Perfection says:

    The thing that hurt me the most was that he could be so wonderful and suddenly so cruel. I didn’t mind to discover he didn’t love me, people can be confused about their feelings. I didn’t mind he made plans he would never accomplish in the end, we both are married, it was complicated, it was enough for me just to dream about what ifs scenarios. It didn’t hurt to know he never meant what he said because I also said a few things I really didn’t mean. But I will never forget the moment his mask dropped and he turned into a cold lizard. It was like talking to a stranger with his face and voice. I kept asking him how is it possible you are being so cold and mean when just last night we exchanged a hundred “I love yous” before going to bed? Who is the person I’m talking to now? This only lasted a couple of hours. At 2 in the morning I got a text message from him saying he was sorry I was so upset (not a real apology) and that he loved me. But I already had a sneak peek of the creature, and I couldn’t unsee it after that.

    1. Joanne says:

      Again your feelings come so close to mine. It’s funny that you admit that you “said a few things you didn’t really mean.” I didn’t articulate that in my post but it was in my mind. I said many things that I didn’t fully mean, and I know NOW that I said them because of this back and forth “admiration fest” we had going on. It was mostly a reciprocal thing, like when he would say things like we were meant to be together all along – I would parrot it right back – KNOWING FULL WELL we were NOT meant to be together, there is no way we were compatible on a lifelong basis. Or on any basis beyond the superficial. Looking back at this now, I see that I was so high on my ego inflation that I did my part in boosting his right back in order to keep it all going.

      As a side note, it’s interesting to accept this responsibility.

      The part of “saying things he didn’t mean” that hurt me was like you said – the cold lizard 180. If he hadn’t said all those things as much and as often as he did, the abruptness of changing wouldn’t have been as painful. For me, he didn’t do that reversal, but as you mention once you had a peek of the creature you can’t unsee it.

  11. Susan says:

    The total disregard and annihilation of basic individual human needs like respect, dignity, individual rights, self determination, self esteem, etc. Compounded by the reality that this person truly wants to destroy me and always has. He is now referred to as my “male sibling”. “Brother” is too endearing a term for this creature.

  12. jessrnny says:

    I can’t deal with a liar. They make me unstable. The MMRN hadn’t been a liar I could have dealt with him but I would be dizzy with concern over when the lies would start.

  13. AR says:

    Broken trust and betrayal hurt me the most. He rubbed salt into my original wound and i will never forgive him for that. My biggest mistake was to open up to him. He pissed me off when he gaslighted me after everything i told him about my family. I wanted to feel understood. He pretty much did the same thing as my family. “There is no love without respect-his words”. He showed me the level of respect he had towards me by playing back and forth game, ignoring me, being indifferent and his callous discard.

    We will see who gets the last laugh!

  14. Pingback: Poll : What Aspect Of The Narcissist´s Behaviour Has Hurt You? ⋆ NarcTopia
  15. Chihuahuamum says:

    Actually the more thought on this specifically whats hurt me the most is the shelving on and off. I used to find it terribly confusing but now i understand im being picked up and put down like a toy. He seems ok with it bc hes not on the recieving end and bc he doesnt view relationships the same way. Were there to serve him. Hes never left but he runs hot and cool and in between lukewarm.

    1. Lorelei says:

      I have to know if you really have a chihuahua! I want one.

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi lorelei…i do have a chi baby and shes so cute!! Best breed in the world!! If you want a cuddley super loyal loving breed chihuahua is it 😍

        1. Lorelei says:

          I like ones with long hair!

          1. FoolMe1Time says:

            Of course you do! Lol

          2. Chihuahuamum says:

            My chi is long haired. They look a lot like papillon breed the long haired breed.

          3. Lorelei says:

            So cute!

      2. pcsands says:

        i have the sweetest chi’s. they are the opposite of narc’s. there is an exchange of loving energy…not a drain. if i date again, i will watch my dogs for feedback. they are better “pickers” than me. I remember one of my big dogs could not stand the narc and always sat with me watching him. Should have taken his advisement.

  16. Pati says:

    I am completly lost for words as I am typing this I am blaming myself because I wish i would have known sooner to get out of this marriage. His behaviours didnt sit right with me.the intimacy was lacking to a huge degree. I would see friends ,family holding hands kidding hugging but not him. He cant even watch a movie with me and cuddle Having children with him blind side me. Of course he does not have insight on his behaviours because he doesn’t know what he is and will never know. But I do know what he is and I have changed around him He is not comfortable and I can see it. HG perhaps he is running low on fuel.

  17. julesrh says:

    That he never meant any of it and wasn’t the person he portrayed himself to be. He worked hard to get me to “lean in” (his words) and trust him, and once I did, he distanced and said I was “too invested.” I bailed, and then he started with the future faking. Rinse and repeat…3 times. I finally bailed for real after being followed by a woman I discovered he had been having an affair with for years (a friend’s wife). A week later he was officially with yet another woman he had traingulated me with. He’s just gross.

  18. Chihuahuamum says:

    I chose that he doesnt love me. Id say number one would be the narc toolbox and how hes treated me in devalument stages. Its more the gaslighting, passive aggressive put downs, triangulations, games. Thats what has hurt me the most but also the realisation the narc doesnt love me. I never went into this relationship to run away from my life with the narc. Id never leave my family. I knew it was only on the side for intimacy and companionship but it still hurts knowing im just another source and i could be replaced. It makes me a bit angry too bc i realise ive given so much more than he has emotionally.

    1. Caroline-is-fine says:

      You’ve always struck me as having so much head knowledge about narcissism & how it’s applied (you also give very good examples on how it’s been specifically used with you & are great at analyzing scenarios), so I’m always wondering what good you feel you’re still getting from the entanglement. Awhile back, I think you inferred that the physical aspect had lost its allure, and that there were no more GP-type highs…in this comment, you say you feel a bit angry that you’ve given so much more emotionally than the narcissist has. I understand your feelings — but I’m just wondering what you feel he’s authentically given to you, emotionally-speaking? What do you think it is about your dynamic that keeps you in still? I also saw you shelf/toy comment, above. Do you think the emotional pain you feel at the “toy treatment” outweighs any benefit you get from the dynamic?

      1. Joanne says:

        CIF & CM
        I am curious about this as well – what’s in it for you?

      2. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi caroline and joanne…ty for your replies. I know a lot more now about narcissism thanks mostly to HGs works but knowing and working thru certain aspects are two seperate things. I find it all very embaressing bc i feel like a weak person. Im strong in ways and weak in other ways. A lot stems from my upbringing and also my marriage.
        Its been about 8 yrs and hes become my daily confidant which seems ironic seeing hes a narcissist. He does listen and take an interest in my life or at least thats how it feels. The intimacy i realise is not true intimacy and is one sided in that its mostly on his terms which has ruined it for me. Your questions ive asked myself many times. I think its a combination of reasons why ive not gone no contact. Codependancy, fear of abandonment, fear of the unknown, experiencing loss of someone i care about and do enjoy for the most part. I guess the abuse part isnt bad enough to need to end it. Theres no physical abuse and the emotional part ive in many ways worked thru and in some regards no longer care about. I no longer wish for something i know is not possible.
        I hope i never come off on here advocating for staying with a narcissist or romanticizing it bc i am not. Its best to leave and itll never work out as far as a committed partner with a narc. This is just my situation right now and who knows maybe a year or two it may be very different.
        My narc has hurt me and hes not capable of a real committed relationship but for me to cut him out of my life i just dont feel its necessary and tbh i dont want to at this point in my life.

        1. Caroline-is-fine says:


          Thank you for your very open answer, which takes real vulnerability to be able to do & is to your credit…I have *never* read a single post that made it sound like you were advocating for (nor romanticizing) your entanglement; in fact, I see you continually stating the opposite. I think that’s why I’ve been surprised you’re still in it! I do understand why you feel you are “weak” as a person, as you knowing “on paper” why this isn’t a healthy relationship – but still staying in it – is taxing on your self-esteem…but I don’t think of you in that way (as “weak”)…

          I think of you as addicted. You expressing your upbringing (I’m very sorry for all you went through) & your codependency issues helps me understand it more also. Because your personality comes across as being someone who likes to dig in deep to facts & break things down a lot, I keep thinking, “How can she have such great self-reflection & ability to analyze her and other narcissistic situations in such a logical way, yet still stay in this?”

          But it highlights to me the power that narcissists wield. This part is hard for me to do, because I never want anyone to take me as being judgy, as that isn’t where my heart is at; I just bring up what I feel led to, at times – in case it ever helps.

          Here are a few things you said, that I want to gently hand back to you – not for you to justify or give reasons back to *me* – but just for your own reflection, if you feel it’s even worthy of that:

          *He’s your “daily confidant”…is that safe? Can a narcissist care about your feelings/situations and have your best interests at heart? Will he use what you tell him to later hurt you? Can you control that? Can a narcissist ever *not* use some information you give him, for his own fuel? What would stop him from this? If you feel you are careful with what you share, is that a real relationship that you can trust?
          *He takes an “interest” in your life – that’s how it “seems” to you…similar to above, *why* would he take an interest? If it sometimes seems like he’s taking a genuine interest in you solely for caring purposes, do you deep-down believe narcissists *can* have real empathy? Or is cognitive empathy enough for you? Has it become hard for you to separate the two, emotionally?
          *He doesn’t hurt you “physically”…*just* emotionally, at times. Is that better? Have you gotten used to it? Do you think you’re rationalizing it simply because you feel you can’t break free? You said: “The abuse part isn’t bad enough to end it.” Do you think you can handle some level of abuse & it not affected you? Have you thought about this strictly in emotional terms, instead of intellectual terms – what emotional affect has he had on you, specifically and overall? Do the bad feelings outweigh the good? Do you think because you have head knowledge about the emotional abuse that negates how it impacts you? Have you become numb…to real emotional pain? If so, where does that pain go?

          I see you as a bright person, with tremendous insight, who is stuck in a narcissistic entanglement. But how you are daily, with yourself, is what really matters.

          How do *you* see you? What does any level of interaction with a narcissist do to you? Those are two questions for all of us.❤

          P.S. As a former IPPS, I still battle times of guilt over “abandoning” the narcissist & still fight thinking that I can make things better for him (hardly!) by being “just friends.” I discipline myself not to do that…but regardless, narcissists have an impact on us, and we all get touched by that.

          1. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi caroline…sorry this is delayed. Ty so much for your thoughts and they are helpful! Youve given me some things to think about. Some ive thought about some i havent and its good to look at others thoughts bc it broadens the mind and can help to see things from a different angle.
            Ive asked myself how being involved with the narc has impacted me. I think the codependancy is going to be a huge negative at some point. It will impact me down the road especially when the dynamics change. One thing ive learned is that life is always changing and nothing stays the same. It will throw me for a loop bc so much of me is wrapped up in him.
            As far as his interest in my life. I really dont know how much is genuine vs managment of what we having going on. He knows this is a reason i stay so he of course would play the part but he really does seem to take an interest and remember all that i share.
            The emotional aspect of the abuse has been like HG mentions a slow slicer. Eventually you grow accustomed to certain things.
            I am numb in ways and others have lost caring. Ive not lost my empathetic nature but things he used to do that upset me i now roll my eyes at. I guess ive become apathetic in that respect.
            I really value your thoughts thanks for sharing them!🤗

          2. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Thank you for your very gracious reply to me💙…I’m blessed that you received my message in the spirit in which it was intended.

            I do understand that you feel guilty for having the two relationships going on in your life, as I’m sure that weighs heavily on you. I don’t know too much about co-dependency (other than basics), but I get how your co-dependency contributes to your hanging onto the narc engagement, and how that’s very hard for you to let go, after years of familiarity with the narcissist…

            As I’m sure you know, nobody can fill up all parts of ourselves that we need, to feel as whole as we can – simply because we all have our strengths & weaknesses, as human beings who are flawed – so no one person would be able to make you always feel secured, always comforted, always happy, always connected (emotional aspects are fluid)…so my wish for you is that for anything you may feel is missing in your life…whatever those things are (for some, it’s spiritual/for others it’s their own personal development/for others, it’s a wider net socially/for others, it’s more depth to a few relationships, etc.)…whatever you long for, to feel more whole overall, I wish that for you~and I hope you can find more of those pieces that are worthwhile to your daily living. 💙 You already have both the heart & mind to know why a narcissist isn’t a safe choice to bridge the gaps with what you’re longing/restless for (not safe in more than one way, in your scenario), but I love how you’re open about where you’re at right now, in your journey…it’s also very giving how you acknowledge others who you see as doing the right thing, regardless of the pain in doing it. It shows you believe that’s worthwhile & of value.

            And on a practical note, in your marriage…with whatever aspects you are dissatisfied with…even if you feel your husband cannot *naturally* give them…sometimes the most beautiful things are those that are not easy to ask for — nor easy to give…that’s maybe something we all need to remember. Sometimes life is awkward/messy/boring/hard…and maybe the person who is simply solidly there for you through daily life is, in itself, a treasure that when more is poured into that — unexpected things can happen, in time.💙

        2. Joanne says:

          I don’t see you as being weak and/or advocating these relationships. If I’m being honest, if my narc kept the charm on even half blast, I would have been ok with the shelf. Crumbs coming from the mask would’ve been ok. But coming from the “cold lizard” as SP puts it — no thank you.

          I feel a big reason I would have tolerated the shelf under the above circumstances, is BECAUSE I am married, as awful as that sounds. My emotional needs are met in my marriage. So there was always a “safety net,” as horrible as that sounds. I wonder if there is some element of that for you, too?

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Joanne, don’t feel bad. I would have put up with a million things precisely because I was married as well. In my imagination, I thought we could keep a parallel love story in which we just shared good moments and special experiences while also continuing to be married. I enjoyed our intellectual conversations and mutual interests (which now I suspect were mostly mirroring). Although he’s a narc and I’m an empath, our personalities are very similar in that we both are energetic, social, and lively. However, I have a very short threshold for rudeness or callous behavior. I would have never in a million years thought he could exhibit that behavior. Nobody would believe me, coming from him, the supposedly greatest friend, the “life of the party.” It totally caught me by surprised, and I was in shock.

          2. Joanne says:

            “In my imagination, I thought we could keep a parallel love story in which we just shared good moments and special experiences while also continuing to be married.” These were my thoughts exactly. Except only I was married, not the narc. My level of selfishness during that time is astonishing to me. The needle on my own narcometer breaking the scale! Of course, I justified it as having enough love to give where my husband wouldn’t miss a thing. Little did I know that all my emotions and empathy would gravitate to the narc – and the narc only. Leaving only my shell left for my marriage 🙁

            At least you shared some common interests and interesting conversation. Despite me really feeling like I was a friend to my narc, our situation was just so superficial, really.

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Meh. I thought our love was similar to the plot of Love in the Time of Cholera by Garcia Marquez, and instead, it was more like Great Expectations where I was little Pip being tortured by cold-hearted Estella, with a special cameo of the creature in The Picture of Dorian Gray. Also, our “common interests” soon became our mutual competition. Do you like William Blake? What a terrible poet! Are you good at karaoke? I’m obviously better. You don’t enjoy Expressionism? Come on, it’s my favorite artistic style! You love Depeche Mode? Well let me tell you that the fabulous DJ I’m watching tonight is totally influenced by Depeche Mode… it was exhausting, really. Our intellectual exchange was quickly a way for him to try to make me feel inferior, and sometimes he managed to make me feel very bad, especially when he was with his flamboyant flying monkeys. Bunch of arrogant pricks…

          4. Joanne says:

            Ah, SP. A sucker for the romantic 😉

            And that pointless oneupmanship! I had a little taste of that toward the end. Can you imagine living with that?!

          5. empath007 says:

            I hope I don’t sound judgmental… but I suppose I am having a hard time understanding how someone who gets their emotional needs met in a marriage, has a long term commitment and bond and are generally happy… would want to seek an affair? Again.. not judging.. more just trying to understand. I would assume there would have to some aspect of your marriage that is lacking? is it mostly about the sex? (which is understandable, and I think more people should be honest about)

            No need to answer me if that is too personal.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Read The Dirty Empath Infidelity

          7. empath007 says:

            I have ! I love that Article. It’s very accurate.

            Joanne in your case I just don’t see you stating what it is about your marriage that makes you seek another. Perhaps you’ve identified it but just choose not to share here (which I understand and nor should you if you don’t want too) but if you haven’t … I wondering if redirecting your efforts into the marriage would be helpful.

            Sorry if that’s too personal Joanne. This is my odd way of trying to help lol.

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Empath007, I don’t know about other DE, I can only talk about my situation. I met narc 10 years ago and I wasn’t married back then. We have been very close all this time and I have always had a secret platonic crush on him. At the time he “attacked” me, I was in a very vulnerable position. My marriage was kind of blend for different reasons, I was having multiple problems at work, and I lost someone I loved deeply. He just made me feel alive again. I was not planning to leave my husband and I was not planning to have an affair but I got totally blinded by his love bombing. I have never cheated on any of my partners ever in my life. It wasn’t even sex, as I explained a few times our intimacy was nothing extraordinary, and in fact, sex with my husband is exceptionally good now, although at that time it was almost non-existent due to stress and grief. But it was the idea of feeling beautiful and sexy and adored by someone that to me, was unattainable. Long story short: he is a somatic narc with a perfect body and I am an Empath, about whom he knows almost everything, going through a little existential crisis. I stood no chance.

          9. empath007 says:

            That sounds like a deadly combination for sure!

            I was unhappy in my long term relationship. So although I didn’t cheat… I could have easily but I was unhappy for a
            Long time.

            Thanks for sharing your story. Wow. 10 years…patient mother fucker hahaha

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            We both are very patient. He told me it doesn’t matter what happens because he loves to wait, I take it now as a warning rather than as flattery.

          11. Joanne says:

            It’s a fair question e007. I was not seeking anything. This narc and I had been connected on social media (namely Facebook) for several years (we were friends as kids in elementary school). In the last 2 years, he began interacting with me directly on FB, commenting on my posts and sometimes messaging me once he was divorced. At times, he would be flirtatious saying things like if my marriage ever falls apart, he wants to be the first to take me out. I laughed it off, it was harmless, and was short lived (a few messages exchanged then it would die). Last year, I happened to be going through a weird phase as my birthday was approaching. Getting older and aging in general is something that has given me a lot of stress in recent years. So when the narc popped into my messages during that time, I guess I was more vulnerable. This particular time, the message conversation went on longer. Then it continued the next day. All day. And the next and so on, and then he was asking to meet up with me. I declined, assuming the messaging would die out but it did not. He continued to ask me to meet him. I enjoyed our exchanges, it was exciting and made me feel good that someone was so aggressive in pursuing me despite my being married. After a couple weeks of this (messaging all day, requests to meet up), I finally agreed. We met for coffee, talked for a few hours, and I was having a nice time. I didn’t feel any instant attraction, until the very end, when I suddenly found myself so physically drawn to him. We kissed goodbye. Before I was a mile away he was texting me telling me our kiss was incredible and he knew this was difficult but he wanted to see me again. From that point, I was hooked. This answer went a lot longer than I intended but that’s how I ended up where I did. I tried to resist at first, but in the end I gave in. No one held a gun to my head or dragged me out to see him. I made this choice of my own accord.

          12. Joanne says:

            To add on, in borrowing from SPs explanation: “I was not planning to have an affair but I got totally blinded by his love bombing.” It was so powerful, like a spell.

            “But it was the idea of feeling beautiful and sexy and adored by someone that to me, was unattainable.” When he was a boy, ALL the girls had a crush on this narc. As ridiculous as it is, this made him that much more desirable in my mind. Decades later, I felt so flattered that he “chose” me and pursued me the way he did.

            Both sex and intimacy with my husband are very good, there is nothing that I am lacking. I realize none of this is logical, and that the idea of risking a stable, healthy, happy relationship does not make sense. I make no excuses, what I did was wrong and selfish.

          13. empath007 says:

            Oh Joanne I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to bring up hurt.

            You are human. There’s nothing to feel bad about.

            I think it’s wonderful you feel so happy with your husband. And honestly…. I’m sure he’s been through similar experiences. People don’t want to talk about them but they are normal. Monogamy is more difficult then people like to lead on.

            Also… we all know who’s at fault here… and it’s the narc 😜

          14. Joanne says:

            No need for apologies, e007. I know you asked in order to understand and not to place judgement. I think the need to really understand this myself is another huge reason why I have a hard time coming to resolution. How does someone like myself get tangled up in this? It has been interesting to uncover and process my own narc traits, and serve up some cold logic to my hidden “love devotee” empathic trait (?) that clung to some belief in soul mates, fate, follow your heart, etc.

          15. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Joanne, yep. Love devotee here too. I fall in love every day. I have to be careful with that. I was thinking some Freudian weird shit about my dad’s lack of interest in me and my sister when we were kids and how that makes me prompt to falling for any guy that shows attention (within aesthetic parameters because I like beauty). I don’t feel bad about myself for that, just curious why it happens. I am not a cheater, though. So, my interaction with narc was unique in that I was able to go against my nature and break a moral code that I never broke before.

          16. Joanne says:

            SP, I’m beginning to think we are the same person 🙂

            I can easily fall in love with any attractive man that shows me attention as well. I don’t obsess over it and it’s fleeting but it does happen. I’ve had another “our paths were meant to cross” situation with a different narc a few years back but it remained a friend type connection. He was very attractive but I was scared and managed to resist his advances. It’s just different with a narc – they will pressure and push and the lengths at which they are willing to pursue make it hard to see logic when you’re so blinded by this “romance” that you almost don’t recognize yourself. My father was not involved in my life at all as a child, so I am sure that plays a part in all this. How could it not? I had a happy childhood and didn’t feel the absence of a male figure, but there is a lot of merit to this “daddy issues” theory, IMO.

          17. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Joanne, I didn’t have a happy childhood, it was full of happy moments watered down by my dad’s egotistical behavior and abuse of my mother. He had to travel for work most weeks so we were happy when he was away, and I remember thinking “oh shit” when I heard his key at the door on Fridays. But the reason why I fell for the narc was mirroring. I haven’t met yet a person that shared all my tastes in art, literature, music, etc so he made me believe he was “the one.” He actually has many features in common with me: our profession, our field of specialism, our upbringing… but the rest is just a little bit of his invention mixed with my desire for it to be true.

          18. Joanne says:

            I’m so sorry to hear this, it’s just no way to live especially as a child. It reminds me a lot of my stepfather but he didn’t come into our lives until I was almost a teen. I feel like this, in addition to the “daddy issues” thing, gives credence to the idea that due to this heightened state of anxiety (ie, your dad’s return from trips), causes us to crave this kind of pattern. The calm when he was away, followed by the chaos and tension leading up to and his return. Up/down, unpredictable, and the concept that on some deep level, we view anything stable as boring or bland. Along comes the narc, and suddenly this need is met.

            I like this line, “just a little bit of his invention mixed with my desire for it to be true.” How accurate 🙁

          19. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Joanne, I think you’re completely right. When I started dating my husband, he used to say it seemed as if I was desperate for drama! The pattern of intermittent gratification the narc creates is extremely addictive. And yes, the mirroring works because you want to believe in it.

          20. empath007 says:

            Thank you for taking the time to answer. I understAnd better now ❤️

          21. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi joanne…i think you hit it on the nail the marriage meets needs he doesnt and vice versa. Its difficult to talk about bc i feel a lot of guilt as it is selfish on my part and im not innocent. This is where i do feel weak and wish i wouldve either fixed the marriage or left or accepted it and stayed faithful. I felt a huge void in my marriage and the narc seemed to fill not just that void but others as well.
            If i was single i dont think i wouldve been as involved with the narc other than purely friendship. Sounds weird mentioning friendship and narcissist together but we do share a lot. I dont think its black and white in life and our relationship is a grey area bc some of it i feel is genuine while a lot isnt.
            If i were single id be looking for a healthy partner who could fully commit and treat me as an equal. I have no fantasies about this narc whisking me off into the sunset HG and the narc himself have cured me of any fantasies. Im bordering on cynical where any romanticism is concerned.
            Being married has been a safety net and probably has allowed me the luxury of remaining as a secondary source. I guess a bit like a crutch.
            I have great respect for the people who do the right thing in life despite it being painful. That takes courage and strength! So many examples of those people on this blog.

          22. Joanne says:

            I completely agree that life is not black and white. Unless you’re a narc of course 😉 Things happen, LIFE happens, we evolve, our needs shift, there is so much ebb and flow and many times it’s not happening congruently with our spouses. It is a challenge. I also have HUGE respect for those who do the right thing and honor their vows and commitment despite some void or need that is not being met (I mean this in the healthiest of ways, I’m not referring to an extreme disregard of ones own needs). I also understand the friendship you have with your narc. I had one like this and while I see now that it was one-sided, I really did enjoy his personality, his company, our conversations, etc. I knew he had one thing in mind and I wouldn’t take it there, so he kind of went away. I’m sure that if you were single, narc wouldn’t make the short list of your commitment prospects, nor would mine.

            It is really almost impossible for one person to fulfill all of our needs, especially those that arise long after we’ve been in a committed relationship. At times it makes me question if monogamy is really realistic, especially in modern times. I hope I don’t get attacked for saying that, it’s just hypothetical.

          23. NarcAngel says:

            You are not alone in that. I think monogamy is unrealistiic.

          24. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Second that!

          25. WhoCares says:


            I’m *beginning* to think that monogamy is unrealistic and highly overrated too.
            But when I look at the alternatives, as a someone who considers herself a sexual and sensual, yet responsible, person – I don’t feel truly comfortable giving expression to that part me of *outside* of a committed relationship. I know it’s part of cultural conditioning but the presence of trust is still a requirement for me (despite “trust” being an illusion to exploit for the narc) to even indulge that part of me.
            I recall, between long-term relationships, responding to and meeting up with someone who was looking for a sexual partner with “no strings attached” – but I just couldn’t follow through on it. Not because I was concerned with how others would judge me – although, that was part of it, but because I would have a lowered opinion of myself. So it is such a trap to think that that part of my character only finds worth and acceptance in the context of a committed relationship AND that seeking alternatives actually puts us at risk of meeting up with a narc, as well, who would seek exploit such an opportunity.

            I don’t know if I’m actually making any sense but that is my 2 cents…

          26. NarcAngel says:

            Hi WhoCares

            I understood you fully. I don’t mean to say that people should run around having NSA sex or do anything that makes them uncomfortable or unconnected. Rather they should do what is right for them and not be judged for it. We are sexually curious by nature and most people will experience being attracted to someone besides their partner at some point. If someone is paired very young for instance or do not discover what they like sexually until much later, they are denied these life experiences because of timing and the moral imposition of others. This seems unfair to me. Few people have the exact same needs or are as fulfilled as they once might have been at 20. We cannot deny that most of us experience these urges and attraction outside of our pairing even though we may not act on them. I believe marriage exists because we do. If people were naturally monogamous there would be no need for marriage. I believe it is religious control and societal pressure that drives it. Most people would limit their experiences I think. Let’s face it – the ones running around hopping on anything that moves are likely our friends the narcissists looking for fuel and not the average person curious to have other experiences with other people without being punished or ostracized before they leave this Earth.

          27. WhoCares says:


            Glad you understood! (I was typing that on my way to pick up my son from the school bus.)
            I agree with you that people should do what is right for them and not be judged for it. And that it seems especially unfair for those who made long-term commitments when they were young and really did not know themselves yet.
            “Most people would limit their experiences.” – they absolutely would with the knowledge they gain here!

  19. lisk says:

    I ticked four or five aspects, but they all boil down to the #1 aspect: the lies.

    I don’t really care that “the narcissist has no insight into his or her behaviors.” Oh, wait…yes, I do. I’m actually happy he has no insight—for this way, he can suffer in his own misery forever, while my own insight (much of which I owe to HG) keeps me far away from it.

  20. Joanne says:

    Lack of closure – this was not an option but honestly, I think this is what hurt me the most and has me continuing to linger in this “recovery process.” Of course I understand it all now, but the lack of personal close out of our affair is incredibly painful. I knew at some point it had to end, and I envisioned the conversation between us where he would tell me that it was over, that he wanted to be with someone who didn’t have to sneak around. I would have gracefully accepted that and we could have moved our separate ways. But the fact that he said all those things – the love bombing, made me FEEL all those things, and then could easily just turn it off – then refuse to admit that he changed even when confronted was so incredibly confusing and painful. I gave him every out, I took on blame, all I wanted was a mature discussion to end it all but instead I got gas lighted and breadcrumbed.

    It hurts me that he never meant any of it. Who SAYS all those things when they don’t mean it?! This hurt for A LONG TIME but this is one part that I’ve managed to wrap my head around.

    Feeling like a fool – this one still stings. I feel like I fool for believing he and I were “destined to be brought together.” For my instant infatuation, my instant trust, for ignoring such blatant red flags. I feel like a fool for still playing into his web for a long time, even once I knew what he was. I feel foolish that I have blocked him, that “he wins” knowing he got that best of me, that he affected me so deeply that I needed to block him.

    I feel like a fool for jeopardizing my family and my entire life for something that was so obviously fake.

    I feel like a fool that I am still carrying on about a 2 month long affair, almost a year later.

    1. Leigh says:

      A 2 month affair that’s been over for almost a year and its still affecting you. That scares the crap out of me! My affair was just under 18 months, plus we were friends for 2 years before that. Its been a little over 5 months since he’s been gone and even though I don’t want him back, I can’t get him out of my head. When the hell will it end!!!

      1. Joanne says:

        I’m sorry for scaring you. My situation absolutely insane and ridiculous. But I swear that I am not the type who can’t handle rejection. I have been rejected before and although it hurts, I’ve never experienced anything like this. I knew this narc as a child and we reconnected as adults. I am sure this “connection” to the past is a big component of why it’s so hard to get out of my head. I’m not sad or upset anymore, but he/the whole situation remains locked in my thoughts. I hope it eases for you as each day goes by.

        1. Leigh says:

          Joanne, thank you. Some days I’m good and other days not so good. From reading Mr. Tudor’s blog, I understand why he did what he did, so I don’t need closure. Mr. Tudor’s blog gave me that closure. I just want the anxiety to go away. We work together and I’m always anxious about whether or not he’s going to show up at my office. That’s the part I need to get passed.

          1. Joanne says:

            That is incredibly anxiety provoking. There’s no wonder he stays in your mind given your work situation. I would strongly consult with HG on how to manage this. But as he mentioned, just keep on reading the material and work on the NC/limited contact as best you can.

      2. HG Tudor says:

        It will end through the imposition of total no contact and the mastery of your emotional thinking. If you wish to, consult with me and I will give you the tools to make it end.

        1. Leigh says:

          Mr. Tudor, I know I have to go no contact. We work together and I have to secure new employment first. Plus, its annoys me. Why the hell does he get to stay and I have to leave? One part of me knows its for my own peace and you can’t put a price on that. The other part of me wants him to be the one who leaves. I try to avoid him as much as possible and if I see him around the building, I don’t acknowledge him. Sometimes he shows up at my office unannounced though and that’s why I’m always anxious. I’m trying desperately to master my emotional thinking. Your blog and books have helped me immensely. Thank you

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome and your post neatly shows the tension between logic and emotional thinking.

          2. Leigh says:

            Yes, it does show the tension between my logical and emotional thinking. That’s the constant battle in my head.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I’ll ensure logic prevails

          4. empath007 says:

            Don’t make the mistake I made Leigh… Leave… leave your job or it will never end. I have managed to hang in my job almost 1.5 years AFTER the breakup and its no doubt the biggest reason I haven’t fully recovered yet. I like you see it as a battle of wills. But it has done me no great favors.

          5. Leigh says:

            Empath007 & Joanne, thank you for sharing your experiences. It helps me gain some clarity. The only real way to escape is to get out and stay out. It really sucks because I do love my job.

        2. Leigh says:

          Mr. Tudor, is it the Zero Impact package I should purchase?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            It is.

    2. empath007 says:

      I really connect with a lot of what you wrote here. Feeling like a fool lasted a long time for me too.

      However, a lot of people can be conned. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

      The most comforting thing for me was the narc I dated was seeing a female narc co worker of mine before me… and she was always confused by his behaviour. And she’s a manipulator herself. So anyone can be conned.

      The important thing Joanne is that you ended it early… you got yourself out… you educated yourself… and you did not mess up your home life. That’s no fool.

      1. Joanne says:

        Thank you, e007. That is certainly the silver lining and I can never forget that.

        I imagine it is comforting to have seen first hand the confusion in another appliance. I had a glimpse of this through his social media (also from a previous appliance) but seeing it up close has got to be validating. This is not your coworker that is a female narc, is it?

        1. empath007 says:

          Yes. The same one. I think it was even more validating because she is also a narc and was like “what is with the hot and cold” haha! She tried all her narc tricks on him but he most definitely had the upper hand haha. She was a mid range and I believe him to be a greater… he later revealed to me he was well aware she was a narc. And that’s why she couldn’t fufill his needs.

          So yes, it can happen to anyone for all different kind of reasons.

          1. Joanne says:

            Wow, that must be a sight to see – the two of them trying to out narc one another! 😂 It’s interesting that he recognized she was a narc and not just a defective appliance…. and that he would reveal this to you.

          2. empath007 says:

            To be honest it only became really funny after I found HG and went “oooohhhhhhh that’s why he did this and she did that and he reacted like this and she reacted like that… and why I was treated so different!” It was a revelation 🤣 and it made me finally not want to compete with her anymore cause I had all the answers Hahahaha.

            But yes watching two narcs is quite the science experiment ! Haha ! However not super hilarious when they team up against you as they are each other’s lieutenants. 😕 what can I do?? Oh ya… stop being stubborn and quit… that’s what lol.

            Yes he actually confessed to me he was a narc when I accused him of it. We had a brief conversation about it and he told me a bit of the origins (golden child) and he knew she was as well…. crazy.


            What’s that saying? Not my circus… not my monkeys.

          3. Joanne says:

            Thank goodness you left. I saw your advice to Leigh and I completely understand the reluctance to be the one who has to make such a huge change, especially if you like your job! So unfair. But I’m sure being free of that circus outweighs the cost of leaving even a good job!

          4. HG Tudor says:


          5. empath007 says:

            I haven’t left yet. I’m still in the trenches but I transferred offices almost 2 years ago and don’t have to deal with him directly.

            However my ET has remained sky high because a) I’m invited to all the events he’s at and I always turn them
            Down to avoid him. B) I am always looking over my shoulder c) I get indirectly hoovered at least once a month. D) I am now forced to see him in November for a conference I can’t miss..:

            The conference has been the thing to make me realize I can’t keep doing this to myself. And that the best thing will be to leave.

            I do love my job. And I’m well respected at my job as well. I’ve been there a long time so I’m glad I didn’t make the decision to just dramatically rush out of there.. but it’s time to go now… I’m looking for other stuff in the name of my mental health. And I know it’s the right choice.

          6. Pati says:

            Empath007 i realized I was once working with a Narcissist. Thank god she found a job somewhere else. I can admit i smeared her as she wasnt a nice person as she was dating a family member of mine . Shes gone.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Empath007, the emails inviting me to events are the hardest to deal with. I hear you, sister. I also am trying to transfer to another job and city. And country, and continent! While we don’t work for the same company, I collaborate with his many times so I am included in the email system and get all the memos.

          8. empath007 says:

            Haha. I know it’s
            Tough because you don’t want to feel like you’re “running away” since running away rarely solves problems. But the narc will only continue to cause issues
            If you don’t . So frustrating.

          9. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Oh I don’t mind running away at all, I actually feel I have needed a change for quite some time. I don’t want to stay in the same city for the rest of my life, how pathetic! So if I move, another big thanks to my narc for another unsuspected bonus of being with a toxic humanoid, on top of already discovering I’m an Empath and HG exists. It’s all benefits and fun, silver lining everyone!

          10. Joanne says:

            I should have remembered you mentioned the conference. A, B, C & D – UGH! It is so unfair for you to have to leave, but also unfair that you can’t operate in your job as effectively since you have to forgo events and spend so much effort on avoiding him 🙁

  21. mbc0389 says:

    The fact that I loved him to my very soul. More than anything. And he did not blink an eye when it came to lying or doing something that devastated me. Letting me go then pulling me back for more torture. I still cannot comprehend it.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello MBC0389, since you are struggling to gain comprehension you should consider a consultation to help you. See the menu bar.

  22. Sarah says:

    He didn’t have the decency to discard me after so many hidden lies and affairs. I had to take responsibility for breaking my own heart and leave.

    1. Joanne says:

      No closure 🙁

  23. Claire says:

    It hurt most that the narcissist never actually loved me. Outside our story looked like a fairytale- Prince Charming, engaged and married within one year after our fist date; my mother and his mother crying of joy and excitement . And the twist – after I am officially his wife , the fairytale is replaced rapidly with a nightmare. Prince Charming is actually Prince Harming.
    And the shock and disbelief how someone who could be so wonderful and then so cruel .

    One thing leads to another so I felt such a foo for believing the idea of the narcissist and I . A lot of self blame and shame, a lot of “what else I could do better “ “ what if I tried harder” “ but why he is such a difficult person” , etc , etc .
    My marriage was smoke and mirrors.

  24. cogra002 says:

    The complete fraud and deception of it all.
    The fact that he never did feel as I thought we both did
    For me personally, making me part of a harem, and the fact that there is a harem and he’s nonstop on the hunt to play out the very same scenario with random victims, was probably the most painful.
    The constant lying.
    The fact I allowed something like this into my life and didnt see it coming, didn’t read the signs. This has made me a little concerned for my own well being.
    It has taken a toll on my health. I was petite to begin with, but probably dropped nearly 15 lbs. I now have back problems. Anxiety problems

  25. KellyD says:

    I was a fool for ever believing he could change. I hurt myself so many times by allowing him to push me away and pull me back, getting hurt in the discard, and feeling happy again for a minute when I believed his pretend love for me. I was such a fool for believing in the idea of me and the narcissist.

  26. Intrepid Traveller says:

    Thinking about the cruelty hurts me the most, probably because I believed in him when ‘him’ didn’t exist so maybe the hardest part is forgiving myself for believing for so long. but what i have grieved for the most since we split is the lost years – believing for the duration i did when i could have given up so much earlier – if i had had the knowledge then!

  27. just a number says:

    I believe he can love. And wants to. But is just too scared to. And the more i try to get close, there harder he pushes me away. Because he’s risking truly feeling something. Thats very sad. And it can end up with him being very nasty. To make sure he protects himself from the possibilities of hurt. But that also ensures he prevents the possibilities of love. IF he does want real love, he’ll have to give in and try it. before he loses everyone.
    I’m sure he’s been told this before. And hasnt changed. So I dont expect him to change now. Its just such a waste.
    If he doesnt want me, I can deal with that. Just dont add emotional, physical or financial pain on top of that! He’s already won. He doesnt need to destroy me.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He cannot love.

      1. Joy says:

        The most chilling part is that the person cannot love, and the evil that this creates. It’s like some traumatic event created a gateway for demonic possession. Can your kind feel sadness?

      2. lisk says:

        HG, have you written an article yet about The Five Stages of Empath Grief and Loss—perhaps in a different presentation?

        As with death, I am sure many of us know and recognize them in relation to our During- and Post-Narc experiences: 1. Denial and isolation; 2. Anger; 3. Bargaining; 4. Depression; 5. Acceptance

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, Lisk, I have not done so.

        2. MB says:

          Lisk, I agree. It is a grieving process.

      3. mysteryeyes0120 says:

        What kills me the most? I left him… I escaped BOTH times…yet I still feel that he is the one that left me…touché

        1. santaann1964 says:

          Me too! It’s ironic don’t you think?

      4. santaann1964 says:

        This is the most honest statement you can write. It’s impossible to feel the most powerful emotion of all! That in my opinion is why your kind exist…….

  28. Whitney says:

    The most hurtful “I love her and not you” when I was the IPPS of the LMR.

    With the MMR and UMR, it hurt they didn’t spend time with me. They were with other women. I was falling in love and I missed them.

    I just found another Instagram account of the MMR. He was with a woman I didn’t know about during our time together. He’s shocked me 3 times now.

    I wonder why he’s nervous with shifty eyes when he sees me. I am not gonna do anything to him. No one has ever been scared of me before.

    1. Whitney says:

      HG my friend says the MMR isn’t just narcissistic but he’s fucking crazy and she thinks there’s something else wrong with him

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Then your friend is wrong.

        1. Whitney says:

          Thank you HG. She meant he’s a narcissist and has something else wrong too

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you for the clarification. She may then be correct.

          2. Whitney says:

            Thank you HG. She impersonated him really well. She said you can tell he’s crazy from across the room

          3. Whitney says:

            He is the worst narcissistic I’ve ever known!

          4. Whitney says:

            HG my friend said the MMR is psychopathic. That’s what she meant. He’s a narcissist and a psychopath. Do you think so HG?

          5. HG Tudor says:


          6. Whitney says:

            Thank you HG. You are perfect!

  29. FYC says:

    The fact that the narcissist never loved is painful and the fact that they cannot and will never love anyone is sad. All of the lies are frustrating and painful and so unnecessary (except to the N of course). It is all hurtful and sad, and the fact that it can never be better makes it even more so. I mis-selected the children as I read it to be without the word “our”. It is both hurtful and sad that a N parent cannot really love their child/children and it sadly has a generational effect.

    1. Pati says:

      FYC I agree how could they not love. I am puzzled. If they do not love then my marriage is a lie .I thought he loved my kids as he shows that he does I feel jilted,sad angry. I am an emotional person and cant cry anymore. Do all Narcs cheat too I am comfused.

      1. FYC says:

        Hi Pati, The N cannot love because real love is the ultimate vulnerability. N’s need complete control to maintain their psychological defense. If an N were to love they would lose control to that person and this cannot happen because any loss of control threatens the whole. If your husband is a N (please get narc detector to confirm), he cannot love and therefore any notion of love in your marriage is by default a lie. But do keep in mind, this has no bearing on your lovable nature nor on the fact that you gave real love to your N. HG has stated many times that all Ns cheat. I would suspect they could not pass up the opportunity due to entitlement and fuel acquisition by way of triangulation.

        As for the kids, I would suggest that just because your husband may provide for your children and win their favor through words or gifts, this is not love. Love is also not a part of seeing someone as an extension of self. Love includes a complete appreciation of the uniqueness of another. It is not treating someone well only as long as they agree with you, or do your biding. Love is selfless and given freely and supports the other (without judgment, criticism, blame, shame, etc.). Love includes empathy and action. These are absent from a N parent because most cannot see beyond their own construct and their children reflect upon the N. Even if they could see everything, the *total* defense mechanism would not allow anyone, even children, to penetrate that defense. This is why narcissism is so sad (from the E perspective).

        Pati, now that you are beginning to see the whole picture, please go easy on yourself. N’s are quite excellent at what they do and most of us do not see through them or know what an N even is by definition (until we find HG’s works). At this point, focus on taking care of you and your kids emotional needs. Don’t worry about the past. Focus on the now and how you will navigate the future to support the healthiest outcome for you and your children. I think you would benefit greatly from a private consult with HG. He holds all of the accurate answers on Ns. He is the Ultra and here to assist. That is more rare than the Hope Diamond. Hugs for you, Pati.

        1. Pati says:

          Hi FYC
          Thank you so much for your comment. HG did confirm he is Narc through a Narc consultation. I had the gut feeling but I needed it to be finalized. It took me 23 years .

          I do blame myself as I didnt see the red flags.
          I am confused if Narcs dont love do they at least care ? He does everything for my kids and is there for them HG said that Narcs learn to behave this way.

          Regarding cheating he does flirt a lot and even in front of me but I thought he was being friendly. STUPID ME so perhaps he has I dont have proof .He will never let me near his phone and sleeps with it under him .

          I feel like I am in a loveless marriage as I barely get a hug of even a kiss for that matter .
          All I seem to be getting lately are silent treatments .

          My mom has noticed things from the start and didnt like him. I shouldnt have taken her advice but I got pregnant and married 8 months after our first date.

          Thanks for listening

          1. FYC says:

            Dear Pati, Leave blame and shame to narcissists. You need not volunteer to Ns in tearing down your self esteem. No one gave you a handbook on unhealthy relationships or narcissistic behavior. Give yourself a break! Instead, have compassion for yourself. If your child were duped by a narcissist and they told you of their pain similar to yours, would you be so judgmental? Not a chance. So be kind and compassionate towards yourself too.

            As for your kids, I agree with HG 100%. Keep in mind what healthy love is. Now consider the N. Not the same thing–even if the *appearance* is similar.

            Pati, you are not stupid for trusting your N husband. You were supportive and likely bargaining with yourself to keep things copestetsic. That said, HG is absolutely correct. So if your N husband sleeps with his phone under his pillow it is pretty obvious it’s because he has something to hide.

            Life is too short to stay in a loveless marriage. You have far too much to offer yourself and others. Why not begin strategizing a move? Talk to HG. He will mastermind a perfect plan for your escape and to manage your kids through the transition. You can choose your timing. In the mean time, use those silent treatment to your advantage!

            Sounds like your mom saw some things that someone in love (in the golden period) is blind to. No worries. Forgive yourself and move on. There is much life in front of you. It is never too late to start fresh. Complicated, perhaps, but never too late. More hugs back since you need lots right now!

          2. Pati says:

            FYC Thanks again for your advice I again i really appreciate it.

            Your right life is too short and i am still young and i still have my whole life ahead of me.
            I guess I just need to look to the logic and I need HG to give me the tools to do so.
            As for my kids they may hate me for the rest of my life. This is the price I am willing to pay for freedom. I hope that doesnt sound selfish.

            One thing I am.trying to understand is that my N thinks he is a great guy and makes me look like the victim. Part of the midranger I take it.

            As for infidelity or not it doesnt matter at this point he is a Narc and it he will never change.

            Hugging you back.

          3. FYC says:

            Pati, It sounds like you see things clearly. Yes, it is definitely a classic trait of a mid range narcissist to both *think* he is not a narcissist, and to project his behavior onto you and to smear you. I know you have a fear about your children, but you are too lovely to hate for life. We children can have a selfish point of view at any age when it comes to our parents, but if your kids are not narcissists, I feel certain they will come around after coming to terms with reality.

            I have a friend who divorced a successful midranger. He was liked by many and adored by his kids. He was a classic narcissist. The divorce was awful. The kids were angry and blamed the mother (teenagers at the time). The kids of his former marriage blamed their mother and tried to get the kids on the side of the father. It was awful. The mother is strong and she had the support of her friends. She was honest with her kids when they asked questions or accused. It took two years for them to come around, but they are all very close again. I would say their bond is much stronger for going though the experience.

            I have another friend that divorced a similar midrange narcissist. And she went through a similar, ugly process. Interestingly enough, it took two years for her adult children to come around and likewise they are closer after the fact.

            If you have specific questions in either of those peoples experience, I will answer to the best of my knowledge.

            I know HG will help you with logic and with your escape plan and even with helping the kids see the light without getting drug into drama. Maybe try an audio bespoke consultation to cover the specific situation. But keep your efforts on the down low. Do not tip off your husband and do not put anything in writing on your devices that could hurt you. Borrow a friend’s or buy a burner smartphone.

            Wishing you all the best. Take care.

          4. Pati says:

            Wow FYC you seem to know so much ! You must have escaped your Narc or just know a lot about Narcissits, thanks to HG
            The midranger is all about his Facade. People actually think that he is wonderful! They always tell me how lucky I am too have him. My kids say the same.
            I will be patient and figure out my plan.
            Thanks again

          5. FYC says:

            Nah, just been dealing with Ns since birth. I have researched the topic well, but the credit goes to HG for boldly and accurately revealing the origin and different types of narcissists, their mindset, and their behaviors. His model is superior and more complete than any others available. I wish you the best Pati.

          6. Pati says:

            Good for you FYC
            II can spot them now too thanks to HG
            Even before I knew about Narcissits I got rid of a friend that triangulated me with other people one time we had a party at work I had 2 glasses of champagne and she went and told my husband that I got drunk. My husband then said why are you getting drunk at work. I said what? So and so told me. She would also lie about other things. Showed no emotional empathy when I had minor surgery ,was happy i wasnt at work.She was manipulative. I am glad I got rid of her.
            I didnt realize there are so many Narcs out there

          7. FYC says:

            That N woman was never your friend. Good call on opting out.

          8. Pati says:

            FYC no she clearly wasn’t a friend ,she tried to be at first but she used me to get close to a family member. Shes gone now. Thank god for that!

          9. FYC says:

            Hi Pati, Nothing we do will ever change a N of any kind. Their defense and all that goes with it is too complete. Better to be free of all of that anyway. Reading here really opens your eyes to lots of clues so you can steer clear. It has helped me in so many ways. It’s like having a pair of X-ray glasses that can see through any facade or N behavior. Priceless!

          10. Pati says:

            FYC agreed this blog is amazing and I am learning a great deal. I also want to learn more about myself too. Since my husband is N I am thinking about perhaps doing an Empath Detector .I believe it can help me in the future.

          11. FYC says:

            Good idea, Pati.

          12. Pati says:

            Thank you FYC

          13. FYC says:

            Pati, you are most welcome. No thanks needed. I’m just happy you are on the path to a healthier future, you deserve that.

          14. Pati says:

            You are to sweet thanks again .

  30. WAF Tudorita says:

    ✔️ that the person I “know” doesn’t exist

    1. kel2day says:

      So incredibly true

  31. Jean says:

    His word salad, my emotional logic & heart believed. Realizing he did not know how to love in a healthy way. Knowing some of his issues from childhood and learning about narcissism from HG, I came to realize he does not know how to have a healthy relationship with me and never will. He used to say “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks “ His tricks keep him in survival mode as a narc and he won’t and can’t ever tear his wall down fore he has used it for so many years to survive his hurt from his own parents from his childhood years. He never learned the positive emotion in a relationship or the nurturing that many healthy people learn to have a relationship to share with another person.
    I don’t have to live in that kind of world and I am glad I am me and not him.

    1. neverchangeamanda says:

      That the narc never meant any of it.

      I’m hurt that he can’t be free to be himself and has to wear a mask, everyday, forever.

      If everything is fake. What a difficult way to live!

      I’m angry at the world that my narc can never know how it feels to love. Knowing that even if he is with someone else, he can still never feel love. It’s a painful thought to think of him sabotaging everything forever. If I could gift him love for the price of never seeing his face again, I would pay it and feel happy for him.

      All the love in the world can’t help him and I can’t help but to cry for the love that he should have known. That he does deserve!

      Because I know, that I can’t be there for him again. It is going to be so hard to turn my back on him when he comes. If he is starving for fuel as I starve for love, then this is the only way I can relate and I don’t like to think of with holding from someone that I care for. But I know he means me harm.

      If he came for me for positive only, then I’d give it to him. But since I know he means me harm, well then, I’m out.

      But am I then a monster for having the motherload of what he needs and denying it to him? I have plenty so why can’t I share it?

      I would share my food to a stranger. But I cant share my emotions to someone I deeply care for?

      So then, am I a monster too? No different.

      I need love.
      He needs fuel.

      And what’s the difference?
      I feel like I would rather die than to live without love. I suppose he feels the same way about this “fuel”.

      This is all just so much to try to understand.

      Is this evolution? And if so, what possible situation could require such an evolution?

      Even though I read the books and try to see the narc perspective, I still can’t see what will happen if you don’t get “fuel”. You won’t die?

      This probably sounds ignorant and I don’t mean it to be so, but it seems like such a simple thing, “fuel” with such complexity behind it, that to me is unfathomable.

      Can anyone explain what will happen in a way I can understand. It won’t be physical death?

      Death of ego?

      I mean ZERO offense to the narcs. I am utterly confused by this concept.

  32. Desirée says:

    The lies were difficult to cope with. What was even worse was when you showed me that the vast majority of Narcissists have zero insight into what it is they’re actually doing. I now regard them as mentally ill, like their narcissism manifests as a form of psychosis and there is nothing that can be done about it.

    1. cogra002 says:

      Yep, mentally ill. I constantly have to remind myself !!

    2. Violetta says:

      He never meant any of it. Even The Stare, which I had misread as interest or longing. As the Wolf in “Into the Woods” says:
      There’s no possible way
      To describe what you feel
      When you’re talking to your meal.

    3. WAF Tudorita says:


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