The Dirty Empath – Infidelity
The Empath. Regarded as a paragon of virtue with those traits of honesty, decency, compassion, love devotee, moral compass and so on. All of which make the empath and their fuel output tempting prey for us. Yet within these virtuous empathic traits sit other traits, narcissistic traits.
There are four schools of empath (Standard, Super, Co-Dependent and Contagion) . Layered on to these schools are the empathic cadres (such as Magnet, Carrier and Geyser).
Each empath within the relevant school has both empathic and narcissistic traits. Some will have a small number of strong empathic traits with few narcissistic traits which are low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are moderate in strength and have few or numerous narcissistic traits which are all very low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are strong and numerous narcissistic traits which are moderate or even quite strong. The key consideration is that, in effect, the empathic traits keep the narcissistic ones ‘in check’ and thus the empathic individuals behave in a way which is empathic with other people.
There are however two main instances when the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The first is through The Empathic Supernova which is when the empathic traits become ‘dialled down’ or eroded for a temporary time and thus the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The second instance is a permanent state of affairs and this is the class of the Dirty Empath. The individual is empathic, of that there is no doubt, they have those empathic traits, they also have narcissistic traits too, however one of those narcissistic traits remains strong and prominent throughout and sits alongside the fewer, weaker narcissistic traits and the various empathic traits of varying strength. This does not mean this person is a narcissist, not at all. It does not mean that this person is not an empath. What it means is that they are an empath but there is one (sometimes there might be more) narcissistic trait which ‘dirties’ their empathic status. Think of the empath coloured white with a black streak running through them.
This class of Dirty Empath has various streaks which appertain to the relevant narcissistic trait which prevails and this includes the streak of infidelity.
Thus where the empath is already in a romantic relationship, whether living together,boyfriend and girlfriend or married and they embark on a romantic, sexual relationship outside of that relationship, their narcissistic trait of infidelity has risen to the surface and remained there. What has caused that to happen? As ever, it is a symbiotic equation.
From the empath’s side there is something not right within their existing relationship which means that the narcissistic trait comes to the fore.
For instance, let us take the example whereby the spouse of the empath is either an empath or a normal and has become impotent and/or has no interest in sex any more. All else is well within the relationship – they care for the empath, they pull their weight around the home, they are a good parent, they have a decent job and so on. All is largely well, save for the issue of sexual relations. In such a situation, the empathic spouse has the following choices:-
- Recognise that all else is well within the relationship, that sex is but one facet (albeit an important one) and accept that it is better to have all of the other good elements of the relationship and therefore not seek to damage the relationship or hurt their spouse by seeking sexual interaction outside of the marriage. This is the response of an empath who has no dirty streak of the narcissistic trait of infidelity;
- As above save that the empath regards sex as so significant that they need it yet they do not want to hurt their spouse. Accordingly, they seek their spouse’s blessing to seek sex outside of the marriage but otherwise want nothing more external to the relationship. This is the response of an empath who has the narcissistic trait of infidelity but it is not so strong as to amount to a dirty streak;
- As per point one, save that the empath craves sexual interaction and knows it can only be achieved outside of the relationship. They therefore seek out sexual encounters with other people but have no desire to leave the existing relationship. This individual’s narcissistic dirty streak has risen to the fore and governed the behaviour of this particular empath.
With regard to this third element it remains relatively rare that the empath will do this unilaterally because their traits of guilt, honesty, decency and compassion will fight against the desire to accommodate the narcissistic desire of infidelity. If the narcissistic trait is very strong, the empath may still seek out these encounters and have them with normal people, an empath in a similar position to their own or find a narcissist.
What happens more often than not in this third situation is that the empath spouse has been targeted by our kind.
An empath with no narcissistic streak of infidelity (or a very low one) will resist the sexual overtures of the narcissist. They may remain as a Non Intimate Secondary Source to the narcissist. It is highly unlikely they would be targeted to begin with in any event by the narcissist.
An empath with a narcissistic streak of infidelity, which is greater than very low, will succumb to the overtures of the narcissist and find themselves engaged in an affair, breaking their wedding vows, breaching the trust of their partner and becoming sucked in to the world of the narcissist. If the narcissistic streak of infidelity is very strong, the empath may even have sought out (unconsciously) the narcissist.
Combine the narcissistic streak of infidelity in the Dirty Empath and a narcissist and infidelity is a given. How this pans out very much depends on the desires and wants of the narcissist. Please see the latter part of The Married Target as to how we are drawn to those who are married and are thus susceptible to our overtures. We may want the empath to become our IPPS and thus they are designated the role of Candidate IPSS as we love bomb them and lure them away from their spouse using our range of manipulations in the way that is described in ‘The Married Target’. It may be the case that both Dirty Empath and narcissist are content with an arrangement whereby the Dirty Empath is a Shelf IPSS and sees the narcissist intermittently and is treated as a friend with benefits, side person or mistress. Both parties are content with this. The narcissist gains in accordance with The Prime Aims and the Dirty Empath scratches that itch for sex outside of the marriage (coupled with the excitement that accords with it) but keeps their own relationship intact.
Sometimes the Dirty Empath becomes the Dirty Little Secret and is content with that arrangement also.
Note however that whether the Dirty Empath is a Candidate IPSS, Shelf IPSS or Dirty Little Secret, this is always at the behest and control of the narcissist. The Dirty Empath may willingly embrace the dynamic (unaware of course that they are with a narcissist and what their role is) as it fulfils the desires of the narcissistic trait of infidelity.
The issue arises however when the Dirty Empath wants to remain in the role of Shelf IPSS or DLS but the narcissist wants the empath to become the IPPS. Battle is joined to pull the Dirty Empath in the direction the narcissist requires with all of the drama, triangulation and heartache that follows. The problem for the Dirty Empath is that having allowed themselves to be governed by the narcissistic streak of infidelity they have already trampled over their partner and the narcissist knows this. In the same way you cannot get a little bit pregnant, you cannot be a little bit unfaithful, you either are not or you are.
Where the Dirty Empath has hitherto enjoyed being the Shelf IPSS or DLS, keeping this activity secret from their partner and enjoying all the other benefits of the best of both worlds, it is the narcissist who ultimately calls the tune and if he or she wants that Dirty Empath in a different role, the narcissist will strive to make it happen. If the Dirty Empath will not accord with the change of allocated role then he or she can expect their partner to be told of their infidelity and invariably the narcissist will have evidence (photos, film, documentary evidence of hotel trysts, oral testimony from Lieutenants) to use against the Dirty Empath. If the threat of release of this material does not persuade the Dirty Empath to submit to the whim of the narcissist, then it will be released. The hitherto painted white Dirty Empath will be painted black, they will be devalued prior to dis-engagement and their own existing relationship with spouse or partner will be the prime target of the narcissist for the purposes of causing its destruction and spreading misery. The need to punish the disobedient Dirty Empath and the significant fuel available (negative fuel from IPSS, negative fuel from secondary/tertiary cuckolded spouse, negative fuel from secondary/tertiary sources allied with said spouse and/or Dirty Empath, positive fuel from loyal secondary/tertiary sources to the narcissist) means that the chances of the Dirty Empath being ‘let off’ are virtually nil.
The Dirty Empath may find they can keep their own infidelity quiet for some time, remain as a DLS or Shelf IPSS and enjoy an elongated golden period with the narcissist, but they have no control over that. If it continues that way, this is purely down to the approach of the narcissist. There remains a risk that the narcissist will wish to change the dynamic and with that comes significant consequences for the playing away Dirty Empath, his or her spouse, partner and family.
Those who “give in” to their narcissistic trait (and this is usually because a narcissist has ‘sniffed out’ this Dirty Empath will eventually end up suffering.
This happens in the following circumstances :-
- The DE is DLS or Shelf IPSS for some time and then the narcissist wants to promote them to Candidate IPSS and then IPPS, but the DE does not want this as this will blow open their infidelity;
- The DE is DLS or Shelf IPSS for some time and then the narcissist decides to dis-engage against the will of the DE;
- The DE wants to become the IPPS of the narcissist, but the narcissist does not want this to happen;
- The DE wants to become the IPPS of the narcissist, achieves this, leaves their former spouse with all of the attendant heartache that causes and then enjoys a golden period with their newly acquired (but unrecognised) narcissist. Of course you know what is coming next don’t you? Yes, the DE IPPS is then devalued and dis-engaged from. Their narcissistic streak of infidelity has seen them lured from an otherwise satisfying relationship, drawn by the golden allure of the unrecognised narcissist only for that to collapse and now they find themselves alone, rejected and often hated by narcissist and the cuckolded spouse they once had.
The Dirty Empath with the narcissistic streak of infidelity who becomes ensnared by our kind is only heading for misery. They do not have the lack of remorse, lack of conscience or lack of guilt that allows us to drive ever forward. Instead they are left to rue the consequences of this narcissistic trait being intensified and exploited by our kind.
Further articles will follow concerning the various streaks of the Dirty Empath.
169 thoughts on “The Dirty Empath – Infidelity”
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Thank you for this article. It is confusing to know whether one is a dirty empath or a normal with a few narcissistic traits. In my case, in my 20 year long marriage, I succumbed to the mid life crisis and gave into the love bombing of the narcissist for the first ever time. The relationship with narc lasted for about 4 years, albeit mostly virtual, but I only realised it when I learnt that the narc lover was getting married in 3 days time to the girl who he was demeaning and berating all this while to me. It came as a shock. Shock that I had almost killed my own marriage due to the future faking and love bombing of the narc and how easy it was for the narc to lie to me and dupe me all this while. It all made sense after I started noticing the signs, the lies I was being fed, the fact that he was cut copying pasting the same messages to me that he sent to his future wife, the fact he kept shifting the blame on me for saying no to him and therefore he was getting married, the fact that he was triangulating me with his other friends/ lovers. The sympathy he was gaining from his another new lover (not new wife) when he made me talk to the lover, while he was courting his new wife. It all became crystal clear to me at that moment as to why this narc who promised to return to me in the next flight and was giving lame excuses for missing his flight and getting drunk was infact never going to come back. He told me a few days later that he was getting married in 3 days and sent his photos of matching costumes with the new wife and him on the day of their marriage. Ha! This is the poor victim who has no clue what she has gotten into. Just because he wanted citizenship. I reckon I am a normal, but this narc is an elite somatic narcissist. That I am sure of. He did use the benign follow up hoover, which I succumbed to but when I did block him from everywhere he resorted to malign hoovers – albeit, covertly by sending blackmail emails from other accounts. But I know it is him. I broke no contact, but he feigns as if he is still the friend as he used to be. I almost gave it away once pre discard/ escape, that I don’t know why he targets married women, and that he is manipulative and never ever loved me. He was in denial about everything apart from that he agreed that he should not target married women! And then he said- ‘You never loved me.’ I guess he may have been right and that’s why I didn’t give up everything to be with him. It’s always blame shifting and not taking responsibility. Now I need to find some internal healing. It’s scary as he was so close to me or so I thought, but all of a sudden all vanished.
The lies and the cheating hurts but being made fool of hurts more than anything. Guess I have no one else but myself to blame. I have learnt valuable lesson though, not to trust anyone. There are wolves in sheep’s clothing. I don’t know how I could miss the signs! How stupid I could have been.
Thank you HG Tudor for this and for all your other posts and videos. It helped me with the realisation as to what and who I was dealing with as I had no clue before. The difficulty is even after knowing all, I am finding it difficult to go full no contact!
Well doesn’t this exactly explain what has happened to me I was always confused if I was the empath or not.. because I cheated but I never cheated before… and it took over a year of strong love bombing to get me there (no excuses though). What a mind trip whirlwind. I am a dirty empath. Thank you for this brilliant explanation so I can understand what the narc had planned and is still planning. And you are right, I am sure I will end up alone. I was fine being the dirty secret.. and he tried to advance me to primary.
Thank you Mr. Tudor for this article. I almost became a dirty empath. I didn’t realize that he was a narcissist at that time that he was doing work at our house. I thought that he might have been my soulmate and seriously wondered if I married the wrong man. I married a man whose over two decades older than me and I really loved him and still do but we have problems caused by his adult daughters who bullied me from the start. I thought at first it was just because they didn’t know me and the age gap was a problem so I thought they were underst
And able so I spent years trying to make hem accept me while they kept on bullying which extended to my little kids with their dad, their half siblings. So let’s just say that there was unhappiness in the marriage and the narcissist came in at such a bad timing. Also when my self esteem was not as good because I have been having a hard time losing my post pregnancy weight, so his attention was flattering to me. I have always been vain and slightly narcissistic in terms of my looks. So this guy was so handsome and was giving me these intense stares with his handsome smirk. He would talk to me with such a sweet and calm voice, so charming, even my little boy exclaimed, “I love him!” while he was talking, which made him laugh so much, you can tell it was a big ego boost. He would look at me up and down which shocked me when I first saw but when his eyes went back to my face and saw my expression of disbelief he actually laughed and quickly diverted my attention by asking a question about what he was doing for our house. The seduction got more and more intense and I have developed a huge crush on him. One night when he was supposed to work only for an hour he stayed late at night and I knew that he was waiting for me to approach him. My husband was asleep snoring in our bedroom on top of the room that the narcissist was working. The energy pulling me to go to him was so strong it was like I was being summoned by the devil. I just used my brain and didn’t follow my heart. I am a Christian and even if every cell of my body wanted to be with that guy I had to do what I know is right by my husband. So I went to our bedroom in bed with my sleeping husband and prayed. When it was almost midnight I saw the lights of his truck leave our driveway and it made me feel sorry for him that he waited. But when he came back to work which was his last day and I opened the door for him, he did not return my smile. He had an angry face and said stuff that I didn’t understand. He gave me silent treatments that day while he was working, his steps and movements louder, and would never meet my look but he kept an angry and disgusted face. It made me so sad that our acquaintance would end in such a negative way. All of a sudden he started talking to me again which made me happy and I saw it made him chuckle. Then when he was leaving he said goodbye to all but would not look at me but he looked at everybody else in the room. Then he said in a really cold manner,”We can say hi.” Which I wondered did he say that to me because he wasn’t even looking at me. I had a terrible withdrawal when I didn’t see him but now I am so thankful that I didn’t let my libido get the better of me. Also I looked up his behaviors in the internet which pointed me to finding out and learning about narcissism. I realized my stepdaughter might be narcissists too or maybe normals with high narcissistic traits. One of them is actually diagnosed with bipolar. I was also raised by a narcissistic mom. She was like the mom in the Stephen King movie Carrie. She still treats me like an infant up to now and still abusive but she lives in another country so I just send her money every month but she has no ability to ruin my life. My husband is a great person and is like my sanctuary. He has a dominant personality, also have narcissistic traits but he is also empathic. So glad I met him because apparently my upbringing makes me a narc magnet.
Mommypino. Finally found your story, thanks for sharing. Have you done the empath test through HG? Certainly a different forum and insight here. PS my husband is also Christian
HG,
you write that DE who becomes IPPS ends up disengaged and hated by the narcissist.
Do you mean a normal process of devaluation and disengagement that every IPPS can get or do you mean that the DE’s narcissiatic streak adds something to the whole process?
For example if DE is in the relationship with a loving boyfriend but meets a narc who seduces her and she falls in love and leaves her boyfriend for the narc and become his IPPS, does this fact matter and changes her situation in relationship with a narc? I thought a narc would be proud that he stole someones girlfriend but maybe he punishes her for her narcissistic trait that lured her to him?
I would be grateful if you could explain this 🙂
The usual dynamic.
i have cheated. not on the narc. not sure what that is about. i think it is the binary nature of the narc relationship. he was bad. i am good. black and white. my delusion. i cheated ‘with’ him on his wife. he was essentially separated, non sexual and the whole bit OF COURSE so it wasn’t REALLY cheating. no. i am not that delusional. i know.
TZ
No sex? Just some necking and heavy petting then?
Dirty Empath here. I got caught seeing my narc (again) last Friday. He had a gps tracker put on my car. My fiance had his father follow me and waiting for me to park to block me in and confront us. I’m sure my fiancé would have loved to have been the one to do so, but he was at work.
I haven’t told my closest friends what happened because I am embarrassed. So many times I have said he is out of my life and I go back on my word. No contact is so hard even when you know what they are and that it will get you nowhere fast.
So it went like this….He got out of the car after I had advised him not to.
His Dad….”you’re a real sorry son of a bitch you know that? A real fucking piece of shit.”
MRN…”Do you have to cuss? I think I deserve to be talked to with respect.”
HD….”You’re right. I’m sorry.” (I was think wtf are you kidding me?)
“Are you going to move her in? You gonna give her a place to stay?”
MRN…Why would I move her in? Why are we even discussing her staying with me?
HD…”Do you love her? You can’t seem to stay away from her. Why don’t you marry her? She’d say yes. Man up. Make it work. She doesn’t seem to want to marry my son. They have a family and you don’t seem to want to let her move on. We are sick of it. You don’t love her do you? You just like what she does for you.”
MRN….”I care about her. We click. You can’t help who you click with.”
HD…”Do you love her?”
MRN…”I don’t know why you are asking me that.”
HD…”You could make it work if you wanted to. Obviously that’s what she wants because she won’t stay away from you. Take her car shopping. She’s going to need a new car. You guys enjoy your time together.”
So I asked him, “Why didn’t you tell him you don’t love me? I mean, you’ve said we’ll never get back together. What are you thinking?”
MRN….”It is none of his business what I think. Did you hear me tell him not to cuss at me?”
That whole afternoon still blows my mind.
Wow! After reading the comments I’d say Dirty yes. Empath, not so much. Lots of excuses as to why you cheated, but very little empathy for your own or narc’s spouse/SO. I hope in those cases you reap the heartache you’ve caused others to feel
Emmy Dub
Narcissists do not love, so there is no heartache for them, only the loss of a fuel source (an appliance). My ex mid-ranger’s girlfriend was either a right leaning apath or possibly a narcissist. She had no empathy and was very materialistic. Do I feel bad for her? Absolutely not.
Hello HG
Your articles always make me reflect on how everything started and how they progressed.
I think about how it would have been different if it would have been a man. I would have seen that he was hitting on me. But because we were friends ( from my perspective ) I didn’t think that’s where it was going. She got me to 100% trust in her and I did with everything. I just kept letting her push the boundaries.
I have been a person who felt guilty about everything. I was never ever in trouble as a child and later on because I hated to be scolded or in any kind of trouble with anyone. I never thought I would have been the one to cheat and certainly didn’t think I would end up engaged to someone else while I was still married. Because I was so “hypnotized” by her I never felt that guilt when the lines were crossed. I didn’t have time to feel it because I was so busy with all of the craziness of being with her. I hate to admit that but I never felt it. I feel that some of the empathetic traits that I had went out the door and that’s part of the identity crisis that I feel now. I can never really believe what or how I feel. I can’t trust myself.
My therapist wants me to write down when something happens that makes me think if it’s inappropriate or doesn’t feel right.
I was the absolute easiest target and I still can’t believe it because it all felt so real.
I love all the learning about myself HG!
For the money that I pay out for a therapist and a trainer I could have weekly sessions with you HG and you always know more than anyone else.
Thank you
Thank you SW, well you know what to do, don’t you!?
Absolutely HG
I was a total empath. But having survived 31 years with him. (On and off) I know how to play him at his own game. I don’t trust him. Don’t believe the good or the bad. I know he is probably slagging me off to his mum and dad. Even trying to make me look kooky to my kids. Course everyone finds out what THEY are really like in the end.
I used spy camera on him when I suspected he wasn’t as “new man” as he said. I listened at doors. I don’t kiss him – cant stand close proximity to him. I have switched off my heart to him. And yet – we still live together. And that is difficult. We share a mortgage and I haven’t the emotional or physically energy to go though another separation and hoover whilst owning the same house together.
But, I know what he is. I have caught him out lying. For instance. I ask him “Have you fed the dog”? Yes he says. I go into the kitchen and into the cupboard and there is the unopened dog food so I know he is lying. Without any conscience. We have a wasp nest near the house and I am the one who got stung 3 times the last time I cut the grass in the garden. So yesterday, I cut the grass again and as I got near to where the wasp nest was – I see that they are still there. Another blatant lie and disregard for my well being. As a nurse I know that repeated wasp stings can produce a reaction which could cause severe anaphylactic shock. Husband is away with his parents at moment (probably devaluing me and my family in front of my son). But these are just some examples of how narcs lie.
Am I a dirty empath? I think maybe I have become one. I don’t know. Awaiting HG to complete the consultation (Thank you HG ) I have never been unfaithful to him though. Though tempted. But I have certainly learnt to play him at his own game. He is using me. Right now I am using him too. To finish this house. To become financially free.
Does the potency of fuel decrease if the significant other of your DLS knows about the affair and is not making a fuss about it? Would it cause you to devalue the DLS sooner?
No. That does not affect potency. Potency is governed by the Proximity of Supply. Thus, the DLS is an intimate secondary source. The partner of the DLS (if there is one) will be an Non Intimate Secondary Source or a Non Intimate Tertiary Source and thus lower in the ranking of the Proximity of Supply. Thus the potency is less.
If the partner of the DLS knew about the affair but does not react then no fuel is provided, thus it impacts on quantity.
This would not be a reason to devalue you the DLS. The DLS and that person’s partner are separate appliances and thus separate fuel streams.
WS2
I was with a lesser narc and cheated on him with my mid-ranger-ex. The golden Period lasted about 2 years. There was NO GP with the lesser and he acted like a pompous dick! The mid-ranger was charming and behaved much better.
Thanks K, for your info. May be nothing to my thought. It just seems like it’d be much harder to cheat on a narc. I sure can’t imagine one putting up with it and staying married like some people have described. I don’t have any real experience with Lessers, though.
Read
https://narcsite.com/2017/07/10/cheating-on-the-narcissist-4/
Thank you, HG. I’ve read that one before, of course (pretty sure I’ve read them all). What I don’t understand is the people who say they cheated rather than just leave their relationship because they wanted to keep their marriage for whatever reasons. I can’t imagine staying in a relationship with a narcissist after you’ve cheated on him. Seems like he’d make your life a living hell and destroy anything he could of value to you. Accordingly to your article that would be true of greaters and lessers. Even midrangers would make your life miserable.
Do you think these men that put up with it are mainly normals?
Windstorm: I sent my exnarc a picture of myself about a month after he had broken up with me, and told him that it had been taken by a guy I had been out with that evening. That was the one and only time he went ballistic. 🙂
😝😝😝
Nice move! I like it!
I read Cheating on the Narcissist and my lesser worked nights and slept till noon so I was able to cheat without being caught. He was suspicious, though. My mid-ranger helped me escape and It involved calling the police, having the lesser removed by law enforcement, and going to court to get a Restraining Order. It was like going from the fire into the frying pan. I considered it an upgrade.
I never cheated when married to any of my 3 Narc husbands. I did have many many one night stands when single, and no clue if they were single or not and I did not care. But it was never about the sex for me anyway….
I have never cheated (definitely have been cheated on). My major relationships have been with narcs and I can be loyal to my own detriment so maybe that’s why. I can see how you could be tempted to though, if you are with a non-narc and a narc decides to ensnare you.
Strongerwendy
Your comment triggered an intriguing thought. I wonder about the original relationship of empathic people who cheat. Are they mainly in relationships with normals and other empaths? Wonder how many of us who were in a relationship with a narc cheated? Interested if it is the same percentage.
Dear HG
Thank you for showing me where can drive the Dirty Empath behavior.
My Narc Husband can go up to 11 times a day so I don’t miss sex.
With my candidate for lover (also a Narc) we didn’t undressed yet. But I’m trying to escape him already.
You explain so clear that there is no real relationship with a Narc and the illusion can not be endless.
So I don’t want my Narc Lover anymore and no contact will be much easier.
Thank you HG!
😙
P.S.
Does the Narcs with the empathic traits exist?
😉
No.
Narcs have “emphatic traits” within their words (talking is easy), when others see them – for the façade and when they have a hidden agenda (it suits their purpose, for instance: helping someone when is not a big effort and they know it’ll return tenfold).
Am I right, HG?
Absolutely.
Yes! That ability to talk a good talk about feelings and being there for little things is what fooled me in the past because I had a certain idea what Narcissism was.
HG has helped me understand better this tricky side of the midrange and greater. Having cognitive empathy tho not emotional empathy. Self depricating humor also fooled me. I had thought my more recent ex was falling into the narcissistic category within the first two months of our dating, however when he engaged in self deprecating humor, I told myself “no it must be the fact that he has an addictive personality, as he was an alcoholic too”. It is known that people with addictions have a strong narcissistic side to them, but the difference is those with addictions only are capable of feeling emotional empathy And are usually only narcissistic and their behavior around drugs or alcohol. Those two things threw me off the trail completely and kept me in the relationship longer as I had hope. Reading HG helped me see they it.
It is interesting. How gullible I was. He told me all the time, that so many women would like to cheat and like to delete another relationship, that they do not care about the woman at his side. There is not taboo.
I really thought that would be rare exceptions. He said the truth????.
What a strange feeling, he has said the truth.
Great article HG !! I’m loving all these new ones !
Oh god I guess that’s me then !
Could you call it something else though ?
Like maybe – exhilarating empath or inquisitive empath perhaps.
I need to rid myself of this cognitive dissonance you’ve created 😂
Good try, but no Alexis, you dirty empath you!
Haha! How about ‘ naughty empath ‘😉
ABW
I love ‘naughty empath”!
Thanks K !
‘ You’re a naughty empath, go to MY room ! ( said narc )😁
I have a question regarding when you say empaths have some narcissistic traits. Do you think we enjoy fuel in a manner similar to you but not in the entire same way? For example just positive fuel and not negative fuel? Am I making sense?
No, you do not need fuel in the way we do. It is not linked to the narcissistic traits but I understand why you might have thought that GB.
Wow! What an insightful, informative, enlightening article!
Wow. Excellent article. You’ve really got me thinking. I thought I was a mere ‘normal’, but maybe not….
I’m happy to see more Empath details!! Can’t wait to read about the Contagion and the other strands of dirty empath. I can safely say I do not have this type of dirty straid. I have not cheated and have never been the other woman (knowingly).
I do wonder if I have other strands though, keep writing!! Looking forward to the Empath book and consultation on this topic 😊
nice to C U Indy. A face with the words…………finally.
Thank you, AhOh:) I’ve enjoyed finally seeing everyone! How’s your summer been?
I can safely say I’m not one of these either. I think the concept of dirty empath is more what I’ve always considered normal people. I thought that’s what normal was – a combination of empathic and narcissistic traits. It’s always difficult to clearly see oneself, but I don’t think I have many narc traits. It will be interesting to see if any of your types of dirty empath apply to me.
One thing I have to say about your blog, HG, it sure encourages a lot of introspection!
No better person to mirror you and show you your weak spots, that’s for sure …
windstorm2
I love your gravatar! You two look so adorable! Congratulations!
Thank you, K!
Windstorm2
I don’t fit this category either, I have never really understood why someone would cheat, reading this helps put things into perspective.
I look forward to what else HG has written on,
I think the difference between “dirty empath” and “normal” depends on the amount of prominent narcissistic traits. The dirty empath has maybe 1 or 2 that mar their otherwise empathetic personality, while in a normal there’s a pretty even split between empathetic and narcissistic traits.
Correct June and the N and E traits are much fewer and lower in the normal.
Summer has been hot as hell. I just returned from my beloved Colorado Rocky Mountains. It is time I purchase a place there again and spend my summers where I feel most at home. I think I enjoy this more than traveling around the world. I have been to over 22 countries and I am getting over the FOMO we have a humans. My peace is there in those mountains.
Colorado mountains, I can see your distant sky
You’re bringin’ a tear of joy to my eye
Poco
This is exactly how I feel driving into the Valley of Vail. I owned there for 14 years and sold 2 years ago. I am ready to make the move back there as my second home. Come visit!
Ok, here goes. . . I was married for 23 years. After 7 of those years I felt like we were like roommates passing in the hall. I was a stay-at-home mom and Amy was 4. I went across the street to the grocery store a few times a week because I like to cook and it got me out of the house. The store manager started making a fuss over me whenever I went in, saying “oh, it’s so nice to see you! You always look so nice!” Kiss on the cheek and a hug followed. This was like a drug to me after being ignored at home for so long. One thing led to another and I invited him over one day. I was going to church at the time and was feeling very guilty. Every sermon seemed to be about infidelity and directed at me. I stopped going to the store for a month (this is where I realize, now, that he was a narcissist) He boldly came to my house one evening and my husband answered the door! The narc said to him “WE just haven’t seen Robin in awhile and WE wanted to make sure she was alright”. My husband didn’t even ask how he knew where I lived. I don’t believe he even cared.
We started seeing each other again and I quit going to church. I had a friend that worked at the grocery store with him and she told me he would say things like “Robin’s always following me around. I can’t get her to leave me alone” When he was having this affair with me, his wife was 7 months pregnant with their 7th baby (he was Mormon) 4 years later, his wife found out about us. (Oddly enough, by baby #7 ) He brought him to my house one day, put him in front of the T.V. and took me into the bedroom. The door didn’t lock all the way and the boy walked in on us. I believe the boy remembered this and told his mom about his dad kissing me. I never saw him again after that.
You might ask, if I was so unhappily married, why didn’t I get a divorce. He was a good father, a good provider and my daughter loved him very much. I didn’t think I had the right to do that to her so I waited until she graduated from high school and left him. We are still friends. Amy says “you are both great people, just not great together”. She is right.
The end
p.s. There were 2 more after him but that’s a whole other story! 😉
Hi RS……I just had to say “thank you” for being so honest and sharing your “dirty empath” story with everyone…….I would need a litre of vodka, laced with truth serum, followed up with prolonged intensive torture techniques before I would reveal my narc story………but then I probably wouldn’t be able to type it out!!!! Anyway…..I appreciated your story and your honesty…..looking forward to the next 2 instalments……
You’re too funny! HG told me it would be “cathartic” to share, so I did. It happened a long time ago and now just seems like a bad dream. We live and learn (hopefully) and I’m all about learning. It’s what gives us character. The other two were more like flings and didn’t last that long. Just a distraction to make me feel something for a time.
Thanks you for sharing RS.
Hi RS…ty for sharing your story!
You’re welcome NA. 😉
Superb article, HG! Very informative! Could you please provide some reason for the following?
“The DE is DLS or Shelf IPSS for some time and then the narcissist decides to dis-engage against the will of the DE”
Thank you IL. Please see the article about why we dis-engage (discard in old money).
Thank you, HG! Are you referring here to devaluation disengagement (i.e., when DLS or Shelf IPSS wounded, did not comply, etc.) or both devaluation disengagement (aka discard) and disengagement aka placing on the shelf? I would think with the former, she is painted black, while with the latter, she remains white. Would appreciate clarification. Many thanks!
Yes, I have some narcissistic traits. 🙂 Only for the greater good!! <3 Time to end the cycle of abuse, and enjoy myself too. I hate you (narc), but I love me more..
HG,
Very interesting analysis of the four Schools of Empaths and the three empathetic cadres. Questions:
1. Is there any special empathetic cadre more present or not present in any of the schools? As for example the Gesyer empathetic cadre seen more on the Co-dependant but not on the Super Empath?
2. The fourth school of Empaths “Contagion” is a new concept to me! Could you please explain more about this school?
1. This will be covered in future work.
2. This will be covered in a future article.
Making you wait on these, SX !
Thank you for your answer HG.
I look forward to reading more about these topics.
It feels so good to be a dirty empath. I don’t feel any guilt for cheating cause it felt so good! And I would do it again in a heartbeat!
I see a white empath and I want to paint her black.
I can assist with that.
Come over to my house, come over and play!
Excellent write up, HG. Look forward to more blogs.
Thank you Scout, I am pleased you found it useful, there will be more in a similar vein concerning various other dirty strands.
HG. He continues to send email hoovers. Should I send a song to him or something tiny to keep him engaged so I keep that alarm system connection open? Many thanks.
Drip feed some positive fuel.
Thank you for your reply. I looked up rictus grin and am totally freaked out. And YES!!! Raging eyes. I sent a dollop 🙂
HG, Thank you for a very thought provoking post. I believe that any empath is capable of cheating given the right circumstances. But how sad that an empath can have a permanent strand of marital disloyalty. This is heartbreaking for them and their spouse.
Hello Elise, I am pleased that the article gave you reason to think and consider. It does raise an interesting debate as to whether an empath would cheat. I agree the capability is always there, but whether they would actually do it, well I am of the view that there are those that would not do so under any circumstance.
And therefore unlikely to be ensnared?
I guess narcs test the likelihood out?
I never cheated on husband nor boyfriends. It never crossed my mind. Weird though, once I’d get intimate with a guy, I’d feel attached to them. Don’t know if that’s cuz they were all narcs? Or some strain of co dependence.
Really good article and i see myself in it. Its very awkward seeing myself as a dirty person bc id never want to hurt anyone and i feel a lot of guilt and shame over the affair. After reading this i asked myself some core questions and one of them was do you enjoy cheating and if things were different in your marriage would you still have the compulsion to look elsewhere and the answer is definitely NO! I never thought id be this person especially given my upbringing with a dad who was notorious for cheating. Going into my marriage i never imagined being unfaithful but i cant live without intimacy and sex. I need it otherwise i feel dead. I look at other couples and i grieve over that part of my martiage daily. Ive stuffed it far back in my inner sanctum like a narc stuffs their upbringing and ive done so to survive and feel somewhat good. Many would say why not end the marriage. Thats definitely the right thing to do but i love my husband and i enjoy being with him but hes left me with a terrible hole in my life and hed never go for an open marriage so it leaves me with very little options.
That all aside i realise the fact i gravitated toward my narc has a lot to do with my upbringing with a narc mother.
I agree infidelity will bring misery but im finding it very hard to detach.
I wanted to add that id never be involved with a married/attached man. It doesnt make it any better but its something id never do. Infidelity is wrong regardless.
That’s what I thought NarcAffair. But he manged to seduce me.
Hi ank…i hope my comment didnt offend trust me i would never judge! My situation isnt any better. I think a lot differently than i did years ago and i try never to judge others its not my place to.
Each persons situation is theres alone.
No offense taken NarcAffair. I didn’t want to get involved with a married/attached man and would steet clear. I though he just wanted to be friends. Little did I know……
That is exactly how I feel too! I feel dead without intimacy and sex and never would have cheated if I hadn’t felt that emptiness . He was also very quiet so we didn’t even have conversations except for how was his work and the weather. The best thing I got out of my marriage was my daughter. . . and half of his retirement from Intel. (HE asked for the divorce and HE got the lawyer. All I did was show up and sign the papers. It’s Arizona law that if you are with someone for 10 years or more, you get half. I would have stayed if he would have agreed to try to make it work but he wouldn’t.)
Like you, I seem to gravitate towards married (or they gravitate towards ME!) The last sociopath I was with was married also. Since then I have decided to never let a married man in my life again. It makes me feel cheap and I am not. I know I will never marry again, why should I? It would be lovely to have someone to go places with and have an intimate relationship with though. I would love to travel but I don’t have anyone to travel with. C’est la vie!
Hi RS….ive not been involved with a married man. Both men i was with were single.
Im the same way intimacy is essential to who i am. Some can get away without it but i cant. I love to touch and be affectionate. I need sex as well. My hubby like a cerebral i feel faked being a sexual person but early on it changed and the sex dwindled. Hes not a cerebral and could be somatic based on his appearance but isnt that either. Hes definitely not a narcissist. Hes a wonderful person i love very deeply. Weve been together 26 years. I met him from a very young age and moved in with him. I thought things would change but his sexuality was always low key. Mine is high and we were never a good match in that respect. Ill never leave my hubby and will stay with him til my dying day or he doesnt want to be with me….but i cant live without intimacy and sex. I feel a huge part of who i am is snuffed out if i do.
I’m glad you can work things out with your husband and make it work. If I could have at least had mental stimulation I would have stayed. I always felt like I was alone when he was there. I couldn’t accept that. I should have seen the red flag in the very beginning about him being low key sexually. When we met he was 23 and I was his first. He was ever only good for one time a night and that didn’t take very that long to complete. Oh well, he gave me the best gift in the world and that is my daughter. I don’t know what I would do without her.
NarcAffair,
That’s one of the reasons I have never married. I need to be with someone I can be passionate with, intimate with and explore with. It was definitely passionate with Narchole. Even he said so himself- ‘we’re good together’.
If I was in a less than happy marriage, perhaps I would have become a dirty empath depending on circumstances and situations.
The tendency to gravitate to narc is because they appear to be offering something that is missing or that we are longing for.
Hi ank..thats just it narcissists sniff out weakness or voids and become expert fillers for these. Thats their binds. They give us what we want most.
Oh yes. He definitely sniff out. Tests the water. Has little chats to potential, sees how the land lies and if there is an ‘in’ like being a should to cry on, a knight in shining armour, finding out that all is not well in the targets’s relationship/marriage he goes for it to see if he can hook and reel in.
i was shocked recently to when he showed a photo of he had taken of me on him mobile at a work Christmas do – nearly a whole year before he started to speak to me.
Thank you for this new article. It helps enormously to lable myself: now I know what I am: I am a Truth-Seeker-Empath with the strand
of infidelity, so I am a Dirty Truth-Seeker-Empath!
Great feeling…
Haha. But nope: when I was at that point I also did not feel guilt, etc. anymore. But that was after abuse, when I didn’t care anymore (in that regard). I only regret that I had not ended the relationship instead.
#4….i left my boyfriend of 11 yrs(father of my girls) to be with my narc…I even moved 4 hrs to another state to be with him. I never slept with the narc while I was with my bf..but we talked, texted and hung out together while I was still with my bf…which to me is just as bad. Of course as soon as I packed all my things…I mean everything I owned, put it in storage under his name (big mistake!!!!) And moved in with him the devaluation began. I actually tried to leave him..thank God my sister lived in the same city within the first month. He showed up at her house crying and begging so I went back with him and stayed another 8 mo before I escaped. My previous boyfriend is the one who helped me escape and I am forever grateful to him. We are back together now and happier then ever. I am truly a very lucky girl. PS….never got my shit back.
I guess I’m a dirty little empath lol.
Dr. Q psyD.
All heathers are dirty little empaths.
But I’m a Veronica silly 😛
This is an absolutely unknown territory for me. I’ve never cheated my men and I’ve never ever contemplated the cheating (even to my first husband who was my friend with benefits). I’ve never done it not because I’m a “paragon of propriety” (far from it), but it seems that I just don’t have such “option” inside of me. I don’t judge people for doing that also. People live as they want and I absolutely ok with it.
So, I have a question. Does Narc always “unveil” the “secret” relationship to spouse and others? Or only in cases when he/she wants that person as IPPS and IPSS?
If in all cases, is it a some form of “revenge” from Narc’s part, because he/she considers the Dirty Little Secret status pretty humiliating for him/herself?
There is not always a reveal Noname and the article “The Veiled Primary Source” has some relevance to this question.
I was definitely a Dirty Empath. Very dirty as a teenager and young adult. I could lie and manipulate without blinking an eye. I used to steal from stores. Cheated on my boyfriends and didn’t care. I was an incredible liar, which is why I think I knew how to stay a few steps ahead of my ex husband.
Then I quit all of it and started to feel guilt. I definitely believe you reap what you sow.
I did end up cheating on my narc husband. I sought it out too. Then back to the good empath again. I can’t imagine cheating now. It took me being miserable AF and hating him and hating having sex with him. He nauseated me. So I looked elsewhere for excitement.
HG have you done a video to this ? Rgds dal
Not yet.
Well damn Tudor. Just when a girl gets to thinking she might be putting the pieces together you throw in this little nugget youve been saving. Very interesting and looking forward to the rest.
Hi HG! In breaking down the schools and cadres for Empaths and adding this category for Dirty Empath, did therapy and your work here on the blog interacting with us and expanding with the phone consults help you to study and expand on this? I can see where if the emotional or physical needs are not being met in a long standing marriage, if an opportunity presents itself, an Empath could gravitate towards an affair without intentionally wanting anyone to get hurt.
It did, yes.
100% true
Matthew Hopkins, Witchfinder General is that you?
It is.
Echoing the wow factor!!! Looking forward to hearing more.
Not sure if I’m an empath yet. If so, the Dirty Empath is fitting. Some of that depends on what one considers cheating. This is where “a little unfaithful” actually applies, when you’ve kissed and sexted, but not slept with anyone.
If you have to hide, sneak & delete – it’s cheating. Not judging you, just stating my opinion. Emotional affairs are worse that a one night stand.
I don’t know what kind of empath I am but I know for sure that I am not this one…….I will have to wait to be enlightened. On second thoughts…..maybe ignorance is bliss………maybe by a process of elimination I will work out that I am not one at all!!!!!! I prefer to analyse the narc rather than analyse myself.
Am I glad I told my h who accepted the fact that I am having my needs met elsewhere! I must admit Mr Narc did save my marriage, even made it better excluding the sex of course.
Is it possible they use a third party they are triangulating you with to expose the affair.
Hello Alexandra, yes it is possible.
Yes! I have been waiting for more articles on Empaths. I myself am a magnetic empath with a touch of super. I very much have a dirty side to me. I for one, have never been much for cheating, no matter how much I needed the attention. When I am with someone, they have my loyalty. I want to say, about 80 percent of my life is spent contributing to my empathic side. My job is in the field of me fixing people, I go above and beyond for my friends and family, I even help strangers. However, those who are really close to me, know I enjoy a party from time to time. Also, because I have the mindset of analyzing situations, I have been known for quick fix solutions and coming up with cash fast if need be. I wouldn’t say that these are criminal activities, but they are a bit narcissistic. How I am able to do this. But helping people with their problems from what I learned, is the icing on the cake.
I’m curious about whether relationships between Narcissists can work well and be mutually beneficial. I’ve seen a couple of situations where it seems like the narcissist that used to be in my life was captivated by the self-confidence of another narcissist.
They can to a degree. See the articles When Narcissists Collide – Parts One and Two.
I can’t wait to get off work and to my computer…I am a dirty little empath and have I got a story to tell!
Looking forward to it RS!
😈
Also looking forward to it, RS.
Me too RS! Look forward to reading your story.
In my story I forgot to say that my ex-husband has been with Intel since he was 19 years old and he is 55 now… a very nice retirement package.
RS, was he affected by the layoffs? Their severance packages are awesome!
No he wasn’t. They offered him the severance package but he declined. I hope he made the right decision because he still has 7 more years of alimony to pay me. 😉 He agreed to pay me alimony for 15 years. I didn’t ask for it. He also put the money down for the house I live in now. He’s a good man.
Yes he is! Enjoy it!
I am and I appreciate everything he has done for me.
RS, you naughty girl. I will await your story with candles lit and a bowl of popcorn. And I will even pour melted butter on it to make it oh so bad 😉
I hope you didn’t put butter on it. I think I built it up too much and it’s not going to be as exciting as you think it will be.
It was RS! The hot buttered popcorn and candles were enjoyed 😁
You’re too cute! Thank you. 😉
Wow.
This article blows my mind. There is a constant battle in my head whether or not I am an upper-lesser/mid-ranger or a super-empath.
Interesting and informative. His current IPPS is a dirty empath.