The Empathic Supernova


What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are three schools of the empathic individual; the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The discarded Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are almost invisible and the few that exist are weak. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They locked together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Empath is also discarded. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this discard until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the discard, the Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are not on the same scale as the Co-Dependent. The Empath will have some narcissistic traits, not many and not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as an Empath (along with the fact that there are more Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.

Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with little and low narcissistic traits and the Empath has few and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.


88 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova”

  1. I have a great deal of appreciation for this insightful article. A LOT! No other writer that I know of, explains and gives a name to this occurrence in such a clear, correct and concise fashion. I do however have a problem with the ending sentence. I think you are lying and full of wishful thinking. The ending sentence is thus………”Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.” You do not relish the challenge of assertion of hegemonic dominance. You are scared of it. You can’t even match the power and context of the hegemonic dominance of the person displaying the fruits of supernova. You and all your kind hide from it. It is a power you do not have the ability to control or dominate in the slightest. 🙂

    1. Incorrect. Nobody has usurped my power and there have been several individuals who have fought back and lost. The ability to control and dominate is there and has been used many times. I know this, you on the other hand can only speculate as you are not in possession of the facts and your wishful thinking, the misplaced hope that the situation is not as I describe, is prevalent with certain victims.

  2. Hi HG, now I understand a lot more… what kind of things does the supernova do? What kind of things would she do to make things dificult and miserable to the narcissits? Since she is an empath… i guess nothing to hurt, maybe to punish and especially to establish limits (maybe making it more difficult to see him)… examples??

      1. Thanks HG. I guess I became an empathic supernova. Long ago I asked you if it was possible to turn into a narcissist and you answered something that my narcissist traits became more visible. At some point I thought I was becoming one of your kind (the strange thing was that it was just with the narcissist). And now it is hapenning with the most important narcissists in my life with whom it is impossible to end the relationship.

  3. And when I think of it, my fingers turn to fists
    I never did anything to you, man
    But no matter what I try
    You’ll beat me with your bitter lies
    So call me crazy, hold me down
    Make me cry, get off now, baby —
    It won’t be long till you’ll be
    Lying limp in your own hand

    — Fiona Apple

    The supernova was a necessary stage, but I think he liked the heat and light. He certainly kept doing his best to bring about explosions. He’d already told me he relished the challenge I presented. My disdainful laughter is what made him limp.

  4. If the supernova knows how to use its power for “good” can a supernova defeat a narcissist? OR Does the nature of the supernova stop them? OR can they cause any damage?

  5. Such huge insight! Understanding my whole life from you HG!

    Have emailed you re the audio consultation and can’t wait!

    1. HG,

      I have two questions to ask of you.

      1. Was this a disengagement?
      2. What caused it if it was a disengagement?

      I blocked the lesser on all accounts except my whatsapp, which he sent me a message on. I wounded him repeatedly non stop, and i sent his sugar mama all the messages he has sent me about how he is going to screw me every which way from, Monday to Sunday on Friday night.

      Do you think the narcissist deleted me from whatsapp because being a loser Lesser that he is, possibly couldn’t handle a Super Empath going into Supernova, or because i contacted his main IPSS in his fuel Matrix. It happened on, Sunday which is a day of rest for this loser low life Lesser, who is always on the “Go” due to his job being a Navy Seal and taking steroids and Cialis. He never sleeps and stays drunk. I didn’t understand how his body could keep going, until someone said steroids help you to recuperate.

      I needed him to disengage with me, although i did block him on all other accounts. It was hard this time around, but i knew if I contacted his main IPSS, or kept wounding him, he would soon disengage with me, and run like the coward he is. At first i had anxiety after i saw he had removed me on whatsapp, than i said to myself; this is what you wanted. You went 11 months No Contact until the Lesser sent you a request on Snapchat and you with your emotional thinking you excepted it.

      From January to Auguest 13th, I have only seen him 3 times, and it was to get emails from my embarrassing past with this guy. Only to find out he was just playing games with me. He has absolutely no way to hoover me now. I wasted 3 years of my life on that loser and 11 months of it was no contact. I hate myself for it. Why have I not met anyone since this parasite? Never in my life has this happened to me.

      1. Hello, this is a matter best suited to consultation given the detail involved.

  6. Beautifully explained.

    “And one day she discovered that she was fierce, and strong, and full of fire, and that not even she could hold herself back because her passion burned brighter than her fears.” – Mark Anthony

  7. This is how I caused a disengagement from the somatic lesser: By going into Supernova mode. He ran like the weak link he is. Although, i am feeling guilt, my logic thinking is telling me, he is a narcississt who doesn’t give a damn about you.

  8. Very timely HG. Just endured a public ambush hoover. Narc left severly wounded. Did not know i had it in me. This explains it so well. Thanks too for the empath grenade concept. Lol. Tossed a ouple with no emotion what so ever. The HG training just kicked in.

    1. J
      Thats the way to do it. Take the information and file it away instead of worrying if and when there will be a hoover. Then when the hoover occurs you are prepared and it kicks in. Worrying and wondering about hoovers doesnt pay off, but preparation does. Good job.

  9. I remember the point of no return, though I’ve never been interested in fighting him or hurting him.
    In the end I wanted him to see that I saw the facade for what it was.
    It turned out to be not the best idea I’ve ever had, lol.
    Now my only effort (related to him) is in maintaining my decision to stay away from him.
    So far so good.

    1. Shesaw, what happened when he learned you saw through the facade? I’m curious. In my case he became fearful of the damage I could do to his reputation.

      1. Hi Mercy,
        He kinda ‘trusted’ me – he had been testing me to see if I would always back him up or save his face. He intensified that after. So I suppose he became more fearful too.

      2. …forgot to insert that he gave me his first long ST after this (1,5 month, never felt more punished for anything in my life). After this ST he came back and started testing me a lot and inserting hurtful accents in our communication. I endured that for 2 weeks – then I left.

    2. Shesaw, from my experience only, I can’t say what it’s like for anyone else, all conversation with the narc is hurtful to some extent .At first you blow it off thinking he doesn’t realize the things he says are hurtful but after awhile you start to think he is doing it on purpose. Like testing to see how much you can take before getting a reaction. Looking back on my relationship I now see that even the times that I thought were “good times” were actually poisoned in some way.

      The more I could handle the more he would tell me until I became his “go to” person in all aspects of his life including his treatment of other fuel sources. Now I know too much and am considered a threat. He still engages, still acts like he can’t live without me but when we fight it’s more damaging to me then it ever has been in the past.

      I feel caloussed. I feel like nothing he does can break me anymore. That is a challenge to him so the punishments are more severe. I’m glad you got out. I hope you stay out. It doesn’t get better. One day you’ll wake up and wonder when you became this strange person looking back in the mirror.

      1. Mercy, thanks so much for your reaction. That’s so painful to read about how you feel. It must be a very isolating experience. I believe that is what would have happened to me too (or will happen if I ever give in to his attention again).

        I tried to stay in contact with him after his ST. But is was all games that he played. He didn’t want me to leave, he wanted me to stay on the shelf (‘love me while I am away’) but I challenged him every time he contacted me by being honest about what I wanted from him (attention, which he wouldn’t give because of new IPSS). But he would nevertheless promise to do so, and he would deliver, but in a devaluing way (reasserting control, giving meaningless attention). It really led us nowhere. He didn’t get what he wanted (I didn’t provide him with negative fuel nor very positive fuel). And I didn’t get what I aimed for : an honest (did I really believe that?) answer of him. It was all pointless. So I made a rational decision and stopped the BS. He lives 2000 miles away from me, and I am grateful for that.

        Are you still in a kind of relationship with him? I can’t read your last paragraph without feeling your disillusion. You must have given him a lot of yourself – and what you get back is darkness. It’s so alienating.

        I used to think that I could handle him, by armoring myself. I could – but it came with the unpleasant experience of looking emptiness in the eye. It’s like they punish you for finding their ‘soft’ spots. Like they don’t bear to be seen as human. He would open up with me about his narcissism sometimes (he knew how he always sought admiration, he told me how he manipulated others, he realized he did not feel much) but I would never confirm that I saw this in him too. It was his truth, he was the only one allowed to talk about it. When I only once, very respectfully confirmed him that I saw his facade I instantly knew that was not a good idea. I feel like I myself created a lock on his door by saying what I was not allowed to say. I was only allowed to know. I lost him at that moment.

        What remained was just a hollow dance. A meaningless, pointless, boring game. It was like he wanted me to stay around to remind me of my mistake. That’s where I started to believe that he did it on purpose. That was my disillusion. I believed in him. But the line of trust was so extremely fragile – it had to break. It was inevitable.

        The threat to my NC is the wish to give him back this meaningful connection. Let him have at least one meaningful connection in his life… Thank you for reminding me that it doesn’t get better. I believe you.

        Hugs to you, Mercy. I am very grateful for your reaction. It made me think (it took me hours to write this reaction, to be honest 🙂 and it made me feel better. Thank you for your care and compassion. Next time when you look at the mirror I hope this will reflect back to you too.

        Take care

      2. Shesaw,

        Your response has me in tears. Maybe its relief that someone understands or maybe it’s that you feel the same pain and it’s heartbreaking. Your words “isolated, alienated, emptiness” all describe the person I’ve become. I can be in a room full of people I love and feel so alone. Most people never know.

        Yes there is some type of a relationship still. I couldn’t even put a label on it right now. The first 4 years were like the golden period (or more like a bright yellow period) it’s easy for the narc to disguise what they are when we live in denial. The last 3 have been bad. Uncovering the deception of the early relationship is a bitter pill to swallow. The information has been given to me in small doses designed to slowly torture me and wear me down. I’m better now, the silent treatments and no contact periods have gone from the cruelest form of punishment to small blessings of peace. So much so that I’ve learned to use them on him to create my own peace.

        I appreciate your response. You have no idea how much I needed to hear your words today. I related to your experience as if it were me so many years ago. I wish I had HGs knowledge and his readers support back then. Friends mean well but when you look in their eyes you know they have no idea.

        I envy your strength in leaving and I hope when you feel like you need to reach out to him you remember that you are worthy of so much more.

      3. Mercy, I thought a lot of you these past days. Past days were a bit hard for me, because he hoovered with all the niceness I felll for every time he made things up with me. It was sooo tempting to give in. I did not in the end, mainly because of your words “it doesn’t get better”. I wrote those somewhere in my phone – they have become my mantra.

        You wrote that the information was given to you in small doses – what kind of information do you mean specifically? Did he tell about himself or about what he was doing to others?
        Mine told me both. He even told me about the tactics he used on me (in very covert terms) – and oh, how proud he was that he could make me come back. He didn’t realize that it was exactly this smugness that woke my anger and made me convinced to show him that he wasn’t that all-powerful.

        And now he wants to prove he is. I cannot give in to him – it will weaken my case and strengthen his. He will definitely make me feel that. So it’s a lost case a priori.
        He’s the ultimate challenge to my problem-solving skills. Give me a problem an I solve it – but I can’t with him. Even if I were ‘the best thing ever happened to him’ – he still has to play the push-pull. I know why (control) but it still frustrates me that I have to let him go.

        Please don’t envy me for getting out – if anything, let it be an inspiration. You can do it too. One day you will feel strong and brave and cut the ties. Prepare for a long ride. I imagine myself at the end of the road and I revisit that image many times a day. It helps.
        Take care

  10. Supernova’s are really intresting. I’ve had a few. Most I did unconsciously looking back and I blasted him a good ‘un; ripped apart a lot of his matrix and I’m sure as of a consequence of that took quite a few ‘appliances’ with me. Struggling to place him actually. ULN or maybe a LMN. Not sure.

    I’m pretty sure I wounded a GCN once as well. I had managed to stumble on his fuel matrix; quite by chance actually. I went through the roof. (I was enjoying an extended golden time). In point of fact, I was in the middle of escaping and he was deploying quite a few preventative Hoovers which were failing. He attempted the suicide power play. I gave him nearly a week of sustained attack before finally withdrawing. He hasn’t attempted a Hoover. yet. Be intresting if he ever does.

    But those two occasions happened before I was weaponised.

    I’ve felt myself close to sliding into one recently with PatriNarc but have not succumbed yet. I may do though if it carries on with his malevolent Hoovers and smears.

  11. I have spent the greater part of the last two years bouncing theories around in my own mind,in an attempt to figure out just what “disorder” fits with me.I know I must have at least one,my childhood and upbringing guaranteed me that.As well,I definately do not function in life the way “most” do,it has been an ongoing issue.Therapy is a non option.I trust no one and the three attempts I made in previous years(before the mistrust had fully set in) ended in me consoling my therapist and handing them a tissue as I exited.Both heart wrenching and disapointing,I feel both sympathy and distain(its your job,how could you be so weak from a simple story.)Also,I am pretty much convinced there is not a therapist out there capable enough to unravel me.Do I really want to emotionally devastate other by trying?! I can be both,extremely empathetic and completely disconnected from my emotion.I approach almost all problems with logic,allowing emotions to effect a decision negates any effectiveness of the found solution,more often than not.Once the issue is solved,if it is an emotional one,I am behind closed doors;an emotional disaster.Never for long,I would never allow it,but always.
    Your descriptions of the super empath are the closest I have found to a category I may fit in,though I fear I may still be giving myself too much credit.I love making people happy,kindness has a way of lifting spirits and everyone deserves to feel that positive flow.The effects of kindness and basic courtesy are immeasurable,powerful stuff and its my absolute favorite to revel in.I can recall many small acts of kindness towards me as early as 3 years old,even how it felt in the moment.I believe truly these small acts have made all the difference in who I am today versus who I may have become.I am so grateful for them.
    I am an eternal optomist in many reguards,and brutally realistic in others.
    When I go “Supernova”,there is not one shred of guilt,not ever.Why would I feel guilt for treating someone the way they have asked me to.You manipulate me or anyone innocent,you have literally invited the trouble and injury you have endured.Once I recognize someone as a manipulator,you are done to me.If I am forced to deal with you in any way,I will be so transparent with your game,you will chose to stay far away from me in every way possible.I do this for two reasons,to protect myself and others.And to make you think twice and doubt yourself,weaken you essentially.Perhaps it will lessen the damage you are capable of inflicting on your next victim.
    HG,I have read and listened to much of your material in the last 6 months,to date you are what I feel is the most capable of sending me in the right direction.Should I be looking at empath/narcissist,or more towards sociopath?
    Any feedback would be greatly valued.
    Best reguards,

    1. You ought to consult with me so I can garner more information in order to furnish you with accuracy.

  12. Never mess with a Supernova!

    My narc traits are strong, being borderline, but I also have strong empathic traits, so they keep each other in check.
    But when supernova mode takes over I want to absolutely pulverise the narc!!! Then after any damage is done I feel bad, as the empathic straights soon kick the narc traits ass! It’s very conflicting being one of these.
    It’s exactly right as HG has explained, the empathic traits get lesser to almost nothing, (and they have to, otherwise we could not be that horrible) and the narc traits get stronger and take over, and they have to do that. We have to become narc-like in order to kick their ass, because they they only take notice when you speak their language.
    However, I lack the control the narcs/psychopaths have. That’s what they have over me. I also have codependent issues, and I’m not very consistent. At least I know what it is that happens now. I’ve gone supernova on all the narcs in my life at one time! I hope it makes them stay away.
    Could you tell I was a supernova HG? Or did you just think I was a narc?

    1. Control over my emotions is something I’ve worked really hard on achieving since my teens (side-effect of a narcissistic mother and her emotional manipulatons). I guess that’s why I fell for the narc – he made it seem like for once, I could finally let go and be myself and fully feel and express my emotions. Only I couldn’t, of course, because soon after the golden period began dissipating and I voiced my displeasure or concerns, he started with corrective devaluations and I fell for every one of them – well, almost. Which brought me back to managing my emotions, only now the stakes were that much higher and I couldn’t seem to find my way out of the mess until I ended up clinically depressed and suicidal.

      Thank god he tired of my lack of fuel at that point and shelved me. I then – after five years – instinctively ‘shelved’ him in return (saying that I needed some space and was installing no contact for a few months to get my head in order). Which of course presented him with a challenge and he started to hoover, alternating between hinting at another golden period and trying to re-establish his control over me. Wrong move, dude.

      I’m well-aware of my own psychopathic tendencies, my own inner darkness and cruelty. It’s not often roused and even when it is, I keep a tight lid on it, but it’s there. If I ever snapped…. I wonder how many other people go through life feeling that way, with that destructive potential within them.

      1. Hi MS
        I understood every word you said. I was depressed from years of abusive mind games from my sister and years of punishment for some crime no-one ever spoke to me about, but I’d been judged anyway, and the punishment was never-ending.
        N-mother would colliude with her, in an eternal triangle of pain. Pain for me, that is.
        So glad you didn’t act on your suicidal feelings.
        Thanks for sharing.

        “Wrong move, dude”. Ha ha! Love it.

      2. Morning sun
        We all have a little psychopath in us (DNA), some just have more of it than others from what I have read.

    2. Hi tigerchelle…supernova is an event of a super empath. What you described ive done as well. It hasnt happened often but when ive been pushed too far my more narc traits come forward and ive lashed out. Its a feeling of not being entirely in control. Then ive disengaged from that person for a time. Its happened with my mother. One instance was when she had done some things to upset me during christmas and then lied to me and id found out. I was so hurt but then became very angry and the fear of abandonment issues triggered i completely lost it and was screaming into the phone as i left a message and let it all out. I didnt hold back. I said some things i regret and i was in a fit of rage. I wanted to hurt her like she had me over the years. We didnt talk for months after that. At the moment you feel almost like youre in an out of body experience and not in control.

    3. Tiger, MS, Caroline, Chihuahuamum:
      Those all overlap with my experiences. My initial issues were with a triangle with mom and sister. Way too late in life I identified it after making a sad five year attempt to rectify the past. Stupid. I eventually went no contact. Sister was doing most of the manipulating at the end. When my mom tried to reengage a few times (almost yearly at the holidays, of course), I eventually lost it, got drunk while raging and ranting in response and gave her even more evidence that the problem is me. Partly triggered by things like the phrase “I don’t know where you get your nastiness from.” Sounds like nothing, but I was raised being screamed at, criticized and slapped, so it’s completely absurd for her to say that. I am well aware that I am the projection. I believe in part because I wasn’t really like her.

      Same feeling as MS, have been trying to learn to control my emotions since I was a teen. The narc I spent a five year platonic intense communication tangle with recently had made me feel like I could finally express my feelings fully. It was a feeling that he sort of opened me in a way I have never felt. I still haven’t fully come to understand what was purposeful and what wasn’t. But what led me to accept that it was a lost cause was a few obvious ways he’d alter what he was saying to me to reverse things, some very very blatant grandiosity and reputation concerns that trumped anything else in the world, and changing one important word in a sentence I’d written to him to alter the meaning of it to the opposite so that he could use it as proof that he did not love me. That combined with a few things he said in a row to try to get me in line that sounded like phrasing my mother would use started to form irrevocable proof to me that I was dealing with someone I didn’t read correctly to begin with. I started no contact just before I came here.

      I started to wonder why certain things didn’t tip me off in the beginning and why I needed logical “proof” to walk away. The truth is that right around the time I should have cut it off I got turned around in a moment of weakness and lack of emotional control because of a death, which is when he started a long silent treatment that I couldn’t properly negotiate. I have a natural inclination to tolerate weakness and character flaw in others due to my past. I am always optimistic. But my rage and emotional control issues when triggered still daunt me. It makes me wonder how to find real health. I am considering some EMDR therapy amongst other things. I do believe the man is a narcissist and that his word twisting is nearly undetectable to most people, I only started to understand that his end goal is superiority, so any kindness is for the sake of that. I try to see it as a positive that I got enmeshed so badly because otherwise I would not be delving this much into the topic and learning about it. On the other hand it makes me see the world differently and I almost feel even more defensive and frustrated.

  13. Wow an amazing and empowering piece of writing here this is just what I needed to read.
    Thank you Mr Tudor

  14. Incredibly insightful, HG. As a Supernova, I would like to add that no matter how diligent, clever, and resilient I thought I was, I could never beat the Greater. It truly was a clash of the titans. Often we would end in a stalemate, to which he would suggest we just resolve it in bed. I finally realized that I wasn’t wired to go the distance like the Greater. And that the only way to win the game was to not play. Further, once I learned that there was such a thing as negative fuel, it was much easier to walk away.

      1. To Caroline: Hello back! Im ok. Basically surviving, living a more enlightened life, figuring out how to erect healthy boundaries, and arming myself for a future hoover. Thanks for asking! Thinking of creating a t shirt (skin tight of course) with the slogan: Caution: Entering a No Fuel Zone

  15. ‘the MRN will find himself in a tormented loop…’
    HG, ex-N was never going to just ‘have’ me.
    Nobody just gets to ‘have’ me.

    He didn’t have the substance to unlock my heart and mind.
    I was waiting to see some substance.
    Oh, how I wanted to see some substance!
    I wanted him to step up.

    With time, he was rattling the drawbridge but the sound of more bolts sliding shut was unmistakable. It was a stalemate.
    (Just remembered, on our first date he said to me “this is the irresistible force meeting the immovable object. I wonder who will win?”. A little later I told him “you’ve met your match”. There was a whole lot I was intuitively ‘seeing’, but unable to consciously process.
    Really, who says those things on a first date?)

    Is this why he chose finally to use a death strike and rape me?

    1. HG
      Just read ‘Sadistic Streak’ article, thought a few more pieces of information are req’d to be furnished:
      I had escaped 4mo’s earlier.
      Vulnerability 2′ to PTSD made me contact him again. He’d sent benign texts in the interim.
      I didn’t know what I was dealing with.
      He responded instantly.
      During long phone call he launched into long rambling monologue, one item was coherent—
      “No-one would have gone ahead with it after waiting, would they?”. I knew this was referring to the fact that I made him wait before our first date. He couldn’t let that go. It came up in every argument. Never resolved.

      Next grievance from him was “you disappear for four months and won’t talk. You always do that, won’t talk”.
      I was listening, thinking “no, we broke up. I didn’t ‘disappear’ “. He wasn’t wanting my opinion however. He was on his Platform of Pontification. This Pontif is the Master of Won’t Talk. Not me.

      I heard the same “you disappear and won’t talk” response from him after the rape too. I’ve moved back into the Palais-Sans-Contact now.
      Thank you for your time, I know you’re super-busy.

  16. ‘the empathic traits cannot be shut off, as they are wired into the empath’s dna’…
    Deliciously true HG.
    The thought has just crossed my mind that those closest to us often can’t see us as we are (or don’t want to), and yet here you are, the Mirror Holder, having never met us, accurately reflecting us in this article, and our essential life force.
    It’s clear, and it’s beautiful.
    Is that a look of admiration on your face?

  17. I ‘ve heard variations of “why cant you be good to me again” in:

    “I want you to stop this nonsense right now and return to being the amazing person that you are!”
    “I cant help what I am and you have what I need. Why do you want me to suffer?” (I asked: what are you several times but only got back word salad)
    “We are amazing together and you know it. Why are you trying to ruin that?”
    “I never feel more excitement and confusion than when I’m with you. Why are you trying to fuck that up behaving like this?!”
    “Wow. It doesnt take much. You have a short fuse and Im patient, but you need to treat me with greater respect”
    “We’re magic babe. You’ll be sorry if you let it go” (Bonus points for a plead AND a threat all in one lol)
    “I’m sick of this shit now. Meet me —- at — and lets get back to where we were”.

    Notice how its always my fault and its me that has to be brought under control.
    Yeah. Good luck with that.

    1. NarcAngel
      ““I cant help what I am and you have what I need. Why do you want me to suffer?”

      This one cracked me up! That’s the kind of line people say to me. 😝

      1. Ha ha! Windstorm Mistress of Suffering. Ha ha!
        I can just picture you with the whp in your hand!
        Suffering, ha!
        Classic projection.

      2. Haha…mine said the same thing “I won’t change but I need you. period” still unable to work out if he is GN or mid range!

        Oh also when I went NC and started again after three weeks due to trauma bond and without realizing what it was “ why are you trying to burn the bridges”

    2. I heard….

      “I either make you happy or I make you crazy! I never know what I am going to get! Your highs are manic and your lows are devastating!”


      “Now: Let us not speak of this any further! If you calm down we may have a phone call later, how does that sound?”

      1. Wow listen to the superiority in that. It the whole now you sit in time out and if you are a good girl the rest of the day, I will speak with you on the phone.


        You know there is no hope here right? None. Don’t give him anymore fuel

    3. NarcAngel and Windstorm
      my first ex-N said the “you’ll be sorry if you leave” line, because “there’s only one of me”.
      Turns out I was sorry I stayed.
      He had two other women he was using for attention as well as me. I had such bad cognitive dissonance for about 12 months afterward.
      He’s a journalist and they’ve named an award after him for making bonehead statements. So no change there, then.

    4. Finally figured out why one guy said “he was told” he would never be able to empathize. Another told me that he was told he might be sociopathic. All probably falls more under the warning post, but they do have a way of taking issue with MY behavior. I’m glad to sort out some of it but still need to understand why I chase such things (though I mostly excuse myself quickly when things are negative).

  18. Another enlightening article. I have not officially been diagnosed as a co-dependant but the more I read, the more I recognize myself. (A light bulb went off in my brain the other night and woke me up from sleep. I realized there is a direct link from the abuse I suffered as a child to the abuse I suffered at the hands of the Ex). I wish I could afford a consultation with you HG as I know you would help me so much! He appeared at a very vulnerable time (which was planned I now know) and I was “his” before he even kissed me for the first time. As a co-dependant I tried over and over to make it work. *I* thought we were great together of course not realizing that literally everything was a manipulation. I was an IPPS and must have given potent fuel. Even when I left him, I always returned over and over again. It started to take a toll on me physically and emotionally but I could not stay away. I have now been diagnosed with complete body and mind breakdown. I have aged 15 years in a very short time and I have nothing left to give to anyone let alone myself. I don’t have the strength to carry on BUT I know that is probably what he wants. He wants me to be so broken that I can’t function anymore so because of that, I am DETERMINED to make it through. I will not allow him to win!!!!!!!

    1. Broken Rainbow
      Hang in there!
      We’re all learning how to have healthy relationships and healthy boundaries, how to manage our physical and emotional resources. Be kind to yourself.

      1. Caroline
        Thank you. I take it day by day and sometimes second by second. Yesterday was bad but today I am having a good day. It is so hard to be kind to myself when I went back to him over and over. It is hard to be kind when I feel I do not deserve anything better. It’s hard but I keep stepping forward.

    2. Dear Broken Rainbow,
      Atta girl ….
      You will again become a beautiful rainbow and shine even brighter 🌈
      Rainbow hugs gorgeous
      Luv Bubbles 🍾

  19. I think you’re intellectually brilliant, I have to say it. Thanks for sharing the information, it is very useful. In return, I hope that some day you will get some peace and stop the anxiety about the need for fuel

  20. I know I have narcissist traits. I only realize I have that side when I’m fighting back. Sometimes these traits come out subtle…little things to sabotage his life but appearing to be innocent. The subtle paybacks are the most satisfying. I dont get my hands dirty. Then there is the rage. Thats the side I’m not proud of. In the moment it feels great. After, whether I win or loose, I always feel like I lowered my standards to his level…not a good feeling. I don’t like to loose control but sometimes it has to be done .

  21. LOL at the phrase “why can’t you be good to me again?” That sounds like something my MRN would say to me!

    One time I heard something very similar…. “Okay for MONTHS you are fine with me and now all of a sudden the other shoe seems to have fallen and you are now acting like this?”

    It was after I called him out on his bullshit of course. That is always when these things happen.

    Please write more about the mid-rangers, HG.

    1. Fuel on the Shelf,

      My online narc pulled that shit too. When I wouldn’t confess who else I was sexting with that night (because there was no one!), he said I was being controlling, not sharing everything with him. He said, “You are going to ruin us. Our relationship. We have a good thing, why do you want to mess it up.” OMG, he was so full of shit! It was SO. MUCH. BULLSHIT. I am just appalled that I bought it, but he seemed so vulnerable and convincing at that moment, except there was nothing to tell him! He was accusing me of what HE was doing, projecting all over the place.

      Saint Piano does this to you, all the damn time and you do not deserve that!


  22. Holy shit. This is me. My dad was a Narc and I never understood why I got so codependent instead of tough and narcissistic. But during this last 3 years w a greater Narc, I started to strike back and scared myself. I was proud that I was standing up to him but I didn’t want to be that mean. I guess I always knew I was doing it to get him back – never to really get rid of him for real. Eventually I broke up w him, but only bc I was manipulated into doing so – he had a new girlfriend who had no idea I had existed. 15 years younger. He was happy to move on to her and has not hovered at all. Part of me knows this is best for me but part of me feels it’s bc I wasn’t worthy in some way. Or the big fear – that he changed for this girl in a way he wouldn’t with years of my love and attempts…

    1. Gwyneth, you realize he’s not happy with her either right? She’s just a new flavor of fuel. He didn’t change for her, he just hasn’t shown his true self to her…yet.

      You are worthy. You need to know that!

    2. Gwyneth
      We can assure you HE was unworthy of YOU.
      He didn’t have the ability to appreciate your love.

      This is a time of big personal growth for you.
      Some of the emotional discomfort you feel now is just growing pains.
      This is a good thing.
      You are learning to be the real, fabulous, unsquashed you, who had to squash herself to survive childhood with a N parent.
      Be assured that just as you are now going through personal growth, he isn’t.
      His mind is closed and he sees no reason to change, it will be just the same with the new victim. Don’t let fear ‘future fake’ you.

      1. Be assured that just as you are now going through personal growth, he isn’t.
        His mind is closed and he sees no reason to change, it will be just the same with the new victim. Don’t let fear ‘future fake’ you.

        Worthy of a Second read . So well said !

    3. Gwyneth, it’s because you showed your worthiness that he hasn’t hoovered.

      You don’t need him to define your worthiness because you already did it for yourself x

      1. Alexissmith2016
        Well said.
        I think it can take a long time for some of us to ‘come into ourselves’ as women, to be the flourishing beauties we were designed to be.
        To know who we are and feel comfortable in our own skin.
        To unapologetically BE.
        To value who we are and what we bring to life.

        If we value ourselves just because of what we DO for others, without an intrinsic value of us being settled in our own minds, then we effectively commodify ourselves.
        We objectify ourselves.
        We say, in effect, “I am just an appliance”.

      2. HG, do you view other Ns as appliances? Do you have a respect for other Ns? Greaters maybe? Or is everyone an appliance if they function for you in some way or another?

        Thank you – Alexis

      3. Caroline, “To unapologetically BE.” That’s my goal in life. Much easier said than done I’m afraid. I don’t know if I’ll ever make it there.

      4. MB
        So true. It is much easier said than done.
        You are on your way, allthough it mightn’t feel like it; even in such a short time, my life has been made sweeter with the beauty of your company here at HGU.

  23. When I discovered I was dealing with a narc. I found it fascinating and found myself testing him. Fortunately I was just a secondary so he was not effective on me. I set out to wound him repeatedly. He would go into a mild rage then I would softly say sorry. I guess im a Super empath.

  24. I went SuperNova on his ass last Christmas, then got into revenge mode- I was sure I would not hear from him again! I was wrong- of course! However, now I am ‘almost healed’ and enjoy from time to time to mess with his head! It is fun! However, you must be at a point where ‘he’ cannot affect your heart……. only logic,calm, ‘irrational’ revenge logic- or you will fail! I do employ the ‘happiness factor’ to enrage him– and it seems to work! Have not heard hide nor hair from him in over 2 weeks- guess he is ‘teaching’ me a lesson! HAHAHA!!! I really have nothing left to say to him, I got what I wanted so he can now stay away…. forever!

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