What the Contagion Empath Does
Are you ready to learn what the Contagion Empath does?
It is time for the true detail to be provided.
839 thoughts on “What the Contagion Empath Does”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Hello HG Tudor, I hope you’re well. Firstly, I wanted to thank you for all the videos and information you share; they significantly help us understand narcissism better and make informed choices. I’m curious if, during encounters with an empath exhibiting contagious traits, you’ve experienced a situation where, while extracting negative fuel during their devaluation, they unknowingly felt the sensation that a narcissist experiences when extracting fuel. I’m not sure if my question is clear, but I appreciate it if you can respond when you have the time. Thanks again!
I am, thank you and you are welcome.
No.
HG,
Are you able to specifically prey on the contagion element of someone? (You as in the ultra) Or does it randomly activate in empaths with no telling why?
You had stated previously that it is something that we have no control over, am I remembering that correctly? So if it’s activated, would it be hard for logic to take over? I am trying to grasp/comprehend the contagion a little bit better. I think it is the part of me that can get me in trouble but I could be wrong.
I can specifically utilise the contagion aspect when it is “in play” for a victim.
What do you mean as “ in play”? And when is it not “ in play.” Thank you HG;)
When they are demonstrating a contagion response.
Mr. Tudor–
1. Does a response of a minority school typically come and go quickly?
2. Can you keep an empath in a minority school mindset (in general or just around you) with the right manipulations?
3. If yes to two, what are the advantages to you in keeping that minority school in play?
Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
I just saw your contagion senses darkness YouTube. Wow. How spit on. Crazy you would understand it. Like a God almost crazy. I can tell you look me I did on YouTube, I met an opposing counsel for a Mexican cartel that was raided by the FBI in LA – bid rigging charges etc…but I handled a public works contractor in a related suit. The crimes helped my civil suit but this attorney came after us. And no expense or ethics rule was spared. He would do day by day depositions but his focus was me. Not my client. He would look at me like a rapist and I would come home to shower. He was curious too. Aptly. I think I was like a species he had never met and couldn’t understand. Why doesn’t she die already I felt he said in my head. When I reported him to the judge for threatening witnesses on vacation, he sent someone to my house with beers and cigarettes on my counter and a dead rat in my garage. He called me and whispered, I should have not done that. But I stayed. I hated this case but I stood firm and we settled. It was a good result for BOTH. I hope never to see this man again. He is rich and Russian and ruthless. I have no doubt he lives on but I have never checked. It’s as just HG said. We met. Stopped. Gazed. Passed in the night. I don’t want to think of what I saw. He was a monster. Not human but human. Glad I don’t meet too many of them. If I feel a deep darkness like that and I have, I tend to take a different path. I once worked as a young DA and saw it with a drug dealer murderer at a prelim hearing. Goat eyes. Pure hell. . You would think as a DA you would see it all the time but nope. I saw others murderers , arsons, pedophiles, drug dealers, thieves… and I left the DA after one year on a death penalty case as although good at trial work the emotion got to me. I cried a lot. This one 14 year old girls heart on her notebook of her rapist and murderers name will never leave me. It was a death penalty case when I left. My boyfriend at the time said this is not the line of work for you, go make money. Leave criminal law. I did. But I can tell you pure darkness is a different feel then mangled darkness. There are some and only a few that leave you spellbound. Like you cannot believe the depth of emptiness. It is a void. A cold hollow wind without end. I think it’s dark matter. And that’s where they end. It’s nothingness. But until then, step aside. Or if you are made for it, capture. I am made to step aside if I can.
Also HG I consulted you and I felt that cold dark howling wind but then came your voice and it shut the door. Somehow I think you have built a bridge. A door. A window. Where no one else can. You liked that at least it was not hot air years ago. But after listening to the series you presented on contagions and darkness, I honestly feel you are one of a kind. Not sure exactly what. But a gatekeeper of sorts
HG,
I’m curious, how do you manipulate the Contagion element in someone? Xx There’s so much I don’t know about the empath side. I’m really looking forward to learning it all. Xx
My brain computes that as ‘play time’…..
Thank you
I saw your contagion meets darkness series and I have no words. How do you understand an encounter so rare? How can you understand the feelings so well and the outcome? I have met three among many related to the criminal justice system. Curiosity is the o my emotion I felt from these dead humans. Their only question was who are you? Why are you here in front of me? I felt a brick wall, a void, dark matter… ok I was curious with one. But he proved to be nothing more than destruction. I know he is out there. I forgot his name on intention. I will do good elsewhere where I can. Thank God I live to do so.
It is part of the reason I am the Ultra.
You are indeed;) while I get you could know the inner workings of psychopaths and narcissists, and empaths… there are rare pairings like this… in my life 2-3 total as psychopaths ( not ASD) are rare. So it amazes me that you were so spot on. I wonder if any psychopath or narc via empath experience is unknown to you. Got that matter if you are ever surprised by an empaths behavior or normal or… anyone? I know you said in one comment you were surprised the other night. But were you really? Did you ever formally study psychology? Read Freud? Jung? Do you follow publications from the DCM or ICE or read books on it or is it really all based on your experience and insight… and may I add, your experiences must be vast;) and while I am at it? Auras? Really? Do see them? I am not surprised at you being a published writer out of this arena. What do you write? Historical fiction? Thrillers? True crime? I know you aren’t a romance novelist lol
It always seems an odd pairing the arts with a psychopath. But then Hitler was a failed artist but used the arts to gain his position and Jack the Ripper theories include an artist, Machiavelli and the Marquis de Sade both wrote, there is Jean in France who wrote about being homosexual and a thief, he admired the strength of killers ( Bowie liked his books), and many are quite entertaining. Trump ‘s greatest business venture was a reality tv show… so I guess having an artistic slant is not uncommon with the most achieving psychopaths. Interesting…but I doubt a formal trait.
Alastor and Mystique…hmmm…no idea…Maybe…
Alastor is to HG as Cerebro is to Professor X.
“Could it be also with the Geyser where autism can be mistaken for narcissism? The high emotionality in some autistics?” — It could be many different aspects, really. I think the lack of cognitive empathy and the emotional melt-downs could play a role. (Meltdowns vary greatly in their appearance between different people, and I can see how they would look like someone wanting control…whether the meltdown is screaming or whether it’s a silent withdrawal.)
Have you watched the film „Equals“? — I haven’t.
“I see a similarity how parts of the society deal with autistics. They medicate them to put them into “normal” perceptional boxes where control can be asserted. Sort of; don’t you dare be different and require a revision of my boxes. Take a pill and be a good autist. An aim to reach equality, but an equality of what…” — I agree. The “therapies” for autistic people, from what I’ve read of those who were identified earlier and had more intense needs, the idea is to “program” out “bad” behavior. “Bad” behavior seems to have the broad definition that the teacher wants. Some need correcting (hitting others), some need addressing as there might be more to it (self injurious behavior can be related to underlying medical conditions), and some is harmless (hand-flapping and having special interests).
For me, special interests revolve. I binge watch/read the new content about it, and revisit favorite bits to refresh from time to time. I can spend 20-30 hours of free-time on the interest of the time per week.
One of mine on the wheel of hyper-interest…since high school, the fall of the Roman republic. What that means is watching numerous documentaries (and now YouTube videos from the good history channels), reading so many books about key people and events that I’ve long lost count, learning Latin so I could read the words of those written at the time in the original language. (I’ve encountered very little that I can’t sit through about that topic…though I have seen several horrendous “documentaries,” presenting blatant falsehoods. Please don’t ask about Jada Pinkett Smith’s Cleopatra mock-umentary. I could see from the preview that it was total shit. It would be upsetting to see someone take so many liberties with a story that needed no narcissistic revisions to be amazing.)
„Alastor is to HG as Cerebro is to Professor X.“ — Great guess!!! (and also Mystique can be anyone and no one…unseen)
***
I hope the “therapies” for autistics will change for the better and in general that things in our society will start to make more sense…
I find your special interest aspect absolutely fascinating, Dani! Thank you for sharing this. It inspires me!
Jada’s Cleopatra mmmm I cannot imagine what she was thinking.. Cleopatra is certainly rolling her eyes in the Duat.
Is there a specific historical key figure who is your favorite in some way?
Society will never be perfect, and I think if people would sit at a table together, listen to what others say with an open mind that it would be a start. Still, I think that things are getting better. I also think there is still some hypocrisy to address.
That’s what I really like about Mystique.
An historical figure from the fall of the Roman Republic who is my favorite or any era of history? For the fall of the Republic, it’s a tie between Cleopatra VII (remarkable woman who hit the lowest places and rose to the highest) and Julius Caesar (Politician, author, general, dictator, first Roman deified after Romulus (seven centuries earlier), also a man who survived many dangerous moments (defied a military dictator (Sulla) who was signing proscriptions (death orders) as a very young man).
Do you have a favorite historical era/historical figure?
Dani, hi!
Cleopatra VII and Julius Caesar are so interesting indeed! Their endings were also epic… You must know so much interesting stuff about those two and many other historical figures! So cool!
„Do you have a favorite historical era/historical figure?“
As a teen, it was Alexander the Great and changed towards philosophers and more or less mythical figures such as King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table…
The destiny of rulers is interesting, but strange…I don’t know how describe it… It’s strange how „we are ruled“ now and how it was. The outcome of today and how it all began… I think it don’t make sense to me, though I can understand the driver behind those destinies better now…
HI Jordy!
Cleopatra VII and Julius Caesar…it would be completely riveting (for me) to hear/read what Mr. Tudor would say/write about their lives. The well documented parts…and parts of their mythos that are not fully concerned.
Alexander the Great, excellent general. Fun fact about him…according to Dio, it was said that Augustus broke the nose off the 3 centuries old corpse of Alexander. (Roman History, Book 51, Chapter 16) He also said, when the Alexandrians offered to show him the Ptolemies, “I wished to see a king, not corpses.” I understand that the tomb was a popular tourist destination for rich Romans for a time…until it was “lost,” following the rise of Christianity. It’s possible that the tomb is now underwater…a large portion of ancient Alexandria is…
Mythical figures are fabulous! Aeneas, Odysseus…I like two very accomplished…liars.
“I can understand the driver behind those destinies better now…” — AGREED!
Jean Grey: contagian
@Contagious: Replying to your comment above about the Contagion Senses Darkness video on YT.
I’ve had a somewhat similar experience, though not as dark, while visiting a distant cousin connected through the same family line as my N-parent. Our connection goes back a generation or two from my N-grandparent. He knew that grandparents’ siblings, having grown up with their children as extended family. He regaled us for hours with stories from his extensive knowledge of ancestors and relatives I’d never met.
However, during the visit, something strange happened. While engrossed in his tales, a strange feeling of apprehension, caution, and wariness crept up on me. It was as though I was in the presence of some malevolent energy, which was quite disturbing. The feeling lingered for some time before eventually subsiding. I felt guilty, wondering if I’d inadvertently exposed my husband to some malevolent force. I had such a strong instinct to get away – the word revulsion comes to mind – but couldn’t understand it because on the surface, he seemed to embody great hospitality.
My cousin wanted us to stay longer. He continued to share more stories, pulling out more and more photos and newspaper articles. At one point he looked at my husband and said, “See, once you get that smile, it’s all worth it.” He invited us to go out to eat together. We did, briefly, and then he wanted us to go back the following day which we had to decline.
Once that unsettling feeling of malevolence passed, it wasn’t so bad, but still I felt my energies somewhat depleted afterwards and I felt I needed a break. It was very strange and I’d never had anything like it before or since.
Does that feeling sound anything like your own experience?
Gillian- great story and great instincts. You trusted them too. Bravo. A great defense. My few experiences were astounding. I walked into a deposition and felt a coldness and hostility like no other. His stare. His powerful body stance. Gorgeous male. Brilliant. Not an ounce of fat in his perfect body. His designer suits were impeccable. But at first glance at first sight it wasn’t love I felt lol it was something I had never really seen before so open, so brazen. A mafia lawyer. He was a criminal attorney for the Mexican mafia, which one and who I don’t know, didn’t care to know and don’t want to know. But what was interesting was his wonder and fascination with me. I knew like I do instantly what he was. A human with no emotion, an empty shell filled with malice but I was God Smacked in his presence. He looked at me like a specimen. He knew I knew but h didn’t understand how little il me I intentionally ignored and dismissed him throughout the days and calmly called him out on the record and before the judge and on the record. He seethed inside but others would not know. I did. He looked at me as a rapist would and I did come home and shower each day I was with him. Any politeness and pretense at my innocence in my actions were fire to him and he knew exactly what I was doing. He called me and whispered in the phone “ I shouldn’t have done that” sending threats to out of town witnesses in a complaint to the judge. We settled the case. I don’t think he wanted to but it was his clients decision. He sent men into my home where child slept, I woke up to models and cigarettes in my kitchen and a dead rat in my carport stoop. But as HG described he moved on and I was smart enough to forget his name and move on. I won’t forget but I have no curiosity. He is one of the closest I have ever met to pure evil. I walked in the room and the atmosphere dropped. It was ice cold.A void so open in that soul it’s like a black hole sucking all life. I met two others like him at the DAs office. Murderers with eyes like goats and a similar feeling but nothing compares to him. If Satan exists, I met him briefly. If you do, follow my lead. Forget his name. Don’t even check him out on social media. Shut the door in memory, thought and deed and move on.
> “Could it be also with the Geyser where autism can be mistaken for narcissism? The high emotionality in some autistics?”
Where can I learn more about this, please? I know someone who may fit the bill and would like to understand more. Possibly would have qualified for diagnosis of Asperger’s using previous terminology; also some aspects of behaviour mirroring N-type conduct. I believe psychologists sometimes mistake one for the other.
Ellen, hi! This one is very good!
https://youtu.be/DGf1J_CaX50
HG Tudor is interviewed by the Naughty Autie, Harry Thompson who is autistic to discuss narcissism and autism.
Thank you for that, Jordyguin. I watched. There was one particular section that I found very useful, but I can’t remember now what it was. Anyway, thank you for the recommendation. It was certainly worth watching.
Ellen, if you want to know if an adult has autism, they have to be evaluated by a professional with the credentials to diagnose it. Administering that evaluation requires special certification, as far as I know from my experience in my home area. Try to find someone in your area who specializes in diagnosing adults with autism, if you want to know about an adult. Not all diagnosticians are willing to do so.
Thank you for the response, Dani. I don’t need a diagnosis as ASD is my default hypothesis. I’m purely interested in the similarities with narcissism, as one often can look very much like the other.
Hi Jordy!
1. I’ve not encountered an autistic person who has said that their romantic partner is a special interest/hyper-focus. I think that would be improbable, not impossible, and that it would become overwhelming for the partner.
I don’t consider the romantic feelings I feel for someone currently or have felt for a few others in the past to be moderate in strength. I think interest in having a romantic relationship is the same for autistic and non-autistic people from what I’ve seen generally of autistic people who pursue romantic relationships. It’s variable, and from what I’ve seen, dependent on not unlike non-autistics.
From my perspective, autistic people form attachments to people that are not so different from non-autistics. They express their attachment differently, but I don’t see that they feel less fondness. Data from Star Trek: TNG explains it this way, “As I experience certain sensory input patters, my mental pathways become accustomed to them. The input is eventually anticipated and even missed when absent.” Data is a favorite of many autistic people.
If we take a logic based approach, autism is known to have genetic components. Autism is being diagnosed more in children (probably for multiple reasons). Since autism is genetic and being diagnosed in greater numbers, to me, it stands to reason that autistic people, diagnosed and undiagnosed, are reproducing.
If you’re interested in a little bit more about special interest, I could share how it has worked with one of mine. And what I’ve seen and heard from others.
2/3. I will get back to you on these.
4. No, I don’t think that autism would prevent or increase my personal likelihood of getting involved in a romantic narcissistic entanglement. Of a few romantic relationships that I’ve had, none that I would describe as having been serious (serious meaning, there was a mutual decision that we were an exclusive romantic couple) I think it possible that a few were narcs, but I don’t know for sure that I have enough information about them to say or that my recall is accurate enough. They lasted several months, which to me is the extended period of time over which H.G. says we need to look at behaviors to make a determination. Both of them were distance relationships.
I think the individual person and their experience is more important. I could talk a little about what I understand from other autistics…areas where I think they would have increased vulnerabilities to narcissists. I think there may be others who have fewer vulnerabilities. We would need H.G. to weigh in to say if I’m right about where I see those points of exploitation being.
5. Mystique, Leia, or Rapunzel are my two thoughts at this moment.
That’s really interesting what you say about autistic people Dani.
I have made a few more observations, perhaps not as well thought out as yours though. But I have certainly noticed that of all the autistic people I know, they almost always have one parent who is a narc. I have also heard many narcs claim to be autistic, when it is pretty obvious they are most definitely not but I also see some similarities and yet huge differences. The main difference being they don’t manipulate or do anything which is intentionally detrimental to others.
Hello Alexissmith2016–
Regarding “many autistic people having one narc parent.” — I’ve heard many troubling statements made by parents with autistic children. I don’t know that all those statements were made by narcissists. I’ve heard/read serious and troubling indicators that some are. Others, I think (want to believe?), are normal/empathic people who want to protect their children from extremely questionable practices in “treatment” of autism.
“I have also heard many narcs claim to be autistic, when it is pretty obvious they are most definitely not but I also see some similarities and yet huge differences.” — I agree. There are similarities and differences. Narcs could be lying (but telling their truth). Misdiagnoses probably go both directions. I think it would be difficult to get professionally diagnosed with both, because (my understanding is) personality disorders are more difficult to diagnose when there is an ASD diagnosis.
“The main difference being they don’t manipulate or do anything which is intentionally detrimental to others.” — High masking autistics (more typically women. those diagnosed later in life and probably would’ve been diagnosed with Aspergers under a previous DSM) may appear more manipulative to non-autistics and display greater changes between public and private behavior. Some report that they don’t stop masking, even around their spouses and children. Masking behavior in autistic women is a subject of current research. So, hopefully, greater understanding will be had in time. The difference is that autistic women (generally speaking) are caring and display genuine empathy, the trademark of the non-narc.
I’ll go as a pan to your Rapunzel, Dani!🥰🍳
***
So informative! Thank you! Yes, I am very interested in the ’special interest’ and how it has worked with one of yours and the areas where you think autistics would have increased vulnerabilities to narcissists. Please do share when you have time!
Thinking of Lea, which outfit would it be for you???
For me it would be the classy white jumpsuit with the black blaster, she wears at the end of „The Empire Strikes Back “ — my absolute favorite film! I delight in the anticipation of the mood of ’what could be’ this plot creates and the constant ’going not as it planned’ theme for all characters, the humor in it, the battle of the narcissistic-empathic traits in the trio and on its own, and just so many favorite moments in it! And the main adoration of mine — Dagobah!!! The planet of mystery, the veil of an ancient presence embodied in the habitat of the planet, just imagine how the sphere would vibrate there! At the same time it feels safe through Yoda’s exposed brave little hut, the rounded shapes and the warmth of the fireplace, surrounded by the calm and the richness of unknown creatures sounds in disguise. The contrast of this solitary mythic planet to the busy business of the empire and the rebels – two advantageous different realities drawing one in!! Ahh!! Sigh in awe!!
Further more it has my favorite scene of Lea’s awakening to the force as she senses Luke’s call and return for him at the end. It gives me goosebumps each time and is such a reward after all the chaos and the crushing reveal of Vader’s connection to Luke. And the absolute favorite – Lea’s smile as she walks up to Luke as they gaze upon the Galaxy from the medic ship they’re on – again this image of them in front of the Galaxy – anticipates the infinite possibilities out there…absolutely magical!
***
Mystique, my gosh also such a fantastic, unique character!! No question what you would wear lol. I guess that outfit can be called – the mimicry of sexiness and boss! Dani, your choices are superb! Love all of them!
Hi Jordy–
I think I would go for Leia’s white dress from “A New Hope” or Bounty Hunter Leia from “Return of the Jedi.”
What character would you dress as Jordy?
Hi Dani, sorry for the delayed reply. I went in to the woods whilst actually going with you to the Convention! So, yes I’d go as a pan to your Rapunzel. Can you imagine the fun, you slamming me in peoples faces lol. For day two, we can go as Leia’s! Day three, Alan Grant and Ian Malcolm as considered before „FREEZE!“ you’d shout whenever I’d wave that flare fancying the T.rex and brethren. Day four, you go as Mystique and I go as Alastor, can you guess why? No spoilers!
***
You know, I though about Harry Thompson, him giving up his channel. I thought; why does some idiot win by chasing him off his platform where he provided such an insight. I can only speculate if it was indeed a better decision for his own benefit, which he must put first, or maybe if he’d consulted with HG about the situation it would have turned out that his emotional thinking was highly ignited and the decision was unfortunately based on that. I can imagine an effort it takes to grow a platform aside a regular job and personal life, but it was important for him to provide an understanding about autism and his information was so well put. Cadre Geyser played perhaps a role, a sudden eruption and k, bye! and all the hard work was thrown out of the window.
Could it be also with the Geyser where autism can be mistaken for narcissism? The high emotionality in some autistics?
Have you watched the film „Equals“? Where the solution concept was to medicate the society out of emotions in the name of peace. The misidentification of the actual problem, as they concluded, was within the emotions of every human being. In reality it would have been the narcissist’s condition of the need to assert control and the chaos resulting out of it.
I see a similarity how parts of the society deal with autistics. They medicate them to put them into “normal” perceptional boxes where control can be asserted. Sort of; don’t you dare be different and require a revision of my boxes. Take a pill and be a good autist. An aim to reach equality, but an equality of what…
(Damn! Leia🥰 not Lea! I always transfer her name from russian in my head, with just three letters Лея = Lea)
Dear Jordy–
“Do you (and individuals with autism) experience strong emotional attachments to people also via special interest/hyper-focus or is it a moderate emotion and interest and the fascination comes from somewhat a different angle or place?” — What type of attachment are you talking about? Romantic, familial, friendship?
“Do you react strongly for romantic love stories or do you experience the over the top emotionality as too much or overloaded with projection and/or fantasy?” It varies. If you would like a more detailed answer, I’ll need some more time to consider it.
“Or is it something you can get lost in, akin to the sensory sensation?” Are you talking about romantic fiction stories or romantic stories that people relate to me from their lives?
Yes, Victor von Doom…he has been a long-time favorite villain.
He’s also a master of magic and a man whose ego matches his capabilities. He also has some truly wonderful lines that highlight his winning personality (some stated in the third person) like:
“No one speaks to Doom that way. Even Captain America.”
and
“Avengers, Victor von Doom is in need of your services. Today, you work for me.”
and
“Compassion can be useful when properly manipulated.”
and
“I dislike your threats, woman, particularly since your voice should be raised in tribute!”
and
“Greatness is cursed with enemies…”
1. Romantic.
2. Yes, more detailed answer would be great, if you want to and whenever you have time.
3. Yes, fictional stories, films, books.
4. Do you think autism somehow could or would prevent you from a romantic entanglement with a narcissist or is it the other way around and autism increase the chance for the entanglement? Or is autism irrelevant in this regard?
5. To a Convention what character costume would you choose to wear?😘
My best friend has a daughter ASD who is in a relationship with a foster kid abused by birth. They met at her special needs high school in LA. I find her normal in the relationship but her mother has given me examples of a lack of empathy on his part. He posts hate stuff on social media and when she confronted him he acts like he doesn’t know hate speech is wrong. She is 18 and he is 20. Another example is they are Jewish and one day he went around saying Heil Hitler. She confronted him and again he played dumb. I met him and he is troubled. He is highly romantic early on in their relationship and given this blog, I suspect a young narcissist. He is manipulative. He lies. He is all about excuses and pity plays but young….They are young and the teen ASP seems to be living a productive life now and even broke up with him. I doubt it will last but I hope she finds another in college. I am sad for the young man who literally bears the scars from his life and is supported for two more years by the foster care system but the teen ASP has had her own share of struggles and is doing well now with a job and school. I wonder if you can be sure a 20 year old is a narc. Maybe refer the mom to HG. I am not sure…
I think early adulthood is the earliest it can be diagnosed, but there are indicators that appear.
I wonder is it too late to get this young man into treatment?
He is over 20 and went to a special school and is in the foster care system. If a narc, little to do:(
Oh poop
HG, a pause in the more serious questions from me. As a music appreciator, do you subscribe to a music streaming service? I was slow to take it up but can honestly say subscribing to a music streaming service has improved the quality of my life. Every song ever made virtually at my fingertips. Is it something you avail yourself of or appreciate as a convenience or technological and cultural advancement?
Yes.
Hi Truthseeker!
“It’s knowing, without being able to explain how I know and being absolutely certain that I am correct.” — Do you ever ask questions to find out if you’re correct in your intuition?
“Sometimes it’s as much about which schools you don’t fit into as it is about those you do.” — I’m curious. Do you have more you would be willing to say about this?
Hope all is well!
Hi Dani,
I don’t need to ask questions because usually I witness the events play out.
Sometimes it can be in relation to people, seeing very clearly what lies beneath but often it’s to do with events. I knew the birth dates of both my children (both arrived early). I was in SC when people were filling the highways to evacuate during a hurricane warning. We stayed put because I knew there was no need to go anywhere.
I knew Covid would be a big deal months before it was a big deal. I had read a tiny article online and knew as soon as I read it that things were going to go bad very quickly. I predicted the date of both UK lockdowns due to Covid. I did predict a third and the third did not come to pass though it was very much on course to. I think there was an eleventh hour decision change there.
We move around a lot. I have refused to set foot in houses that have been on the market despite them being excellent value for money. Then I’ve watched the same house appear back on the market time and time again. So certain decisions I make, are pure intuition but when I know, I know and I don’t question it.
As for the schools you don’t fit into as much as the ones you do. Every empath has a showing of Standard in her empathic make up. These are the core traits that make the empath the empath. When looking at majority schools I think certain behaviours automatically rule out one school or another from being a majority. Similar to the narcissist schools. Presence of a facade rules out the Lesser school. Absence of Machiavellianism rules out the Greater School. Absence of heated fury rules out LMR and so on. So once enough narcissistic indicators are present over a sustained period to establish NPD you can then look at schools in terms of what narcissists don’t do as much as what they do do when classifying them. Similar goes for empaths I think.
Xx
TS, not every person has a Standard in empathy school. I don’t have it. Only CoD, Contagion and Super.
When it comes to absorbing other people’s feelings. Unfortunately, it’s very strong for me. Absorption is an understatement. I’m like the soundboard of a guitar. Especially if I sense, that someone has been hurt (compassion is my weakest element) and even more so when it is someone close to me. If you are happy about something, I will multiply your happiness and you will be radiant like iodized (although you were not so happy before). If you succeed something, you will triumph like a king. If you are sad or resentful, I will act as if you were stabbed knife in the ribs – I will take your sadness, support you, arrange and give you a plan for further action or… revenge – or I will do it myself (this is a very dangerous trait, especially in my youth I committed this some mistakes…).
If only absorption… but it’s much more than that. I absorb and reflect back multiplied.
Several times it happened that I was so “swollen” that the person who was the sender (aroused my emotions) must to intervene. She closed the message, seeing how tired I am, how it consumes me and destroys me… or he/she just got bored of this topic (depending on whether it’s E or N).
As I get older, I’m getting better at controlling it. There is still resonance, but I put my hand on the soundbox and stop the vibration myself.
—–
For the same reason, I’ve always protected my sister. If I have to give her bad information, I try to do it in the most indifferent way possible.
I protect my daughter as well. I have not always succeeded. I consider the moments, when she saw me so much “shaky” to be a parental failure. She can sense my emotions a mile away. It must have been hard for her. Fortunately, such “mistakes” were only a few during the 17 years of her life.
A year ago, after 22 years of friendship, I told my friend (E), that once I had been raped. The subject has been “digested” by me for a long time and I do not need to confide in order to rebuild myself. I only did it, because I saw the need to protect her daughter. I did it so that as a mother, she would be vigilant, because a teacher at school, a “friend of the youth”, began to “highlight” her teenage daughter.
She understood immediately. I knew her daughter would be under vigilant control by now. But… even though I told her my story in a much cut version and from the position of only an observer (some emotions I can’t hide), it hit her hard. I saw how she was struggling in silence, I saw how she put one hand on her belly and the other brought it close to her mouth (vomit – I know this reflex too well), I knew that she had to take a break “from me”. I apologized to her, explained why I did it, assured her that I had dealt with it a long time ago, stepped aside and gave her space. After 2 days, warm but without emotions, we closed the topic. She apologized, said that she was struck like a thunderbolt from the sky, from both sides – mine and daughter (possible danger). We discussed the conclusions related to her daughter. And we moved on to much more pleasant topics 🙂
You have to be very careful, what you take from someone and what you give to someone. And sometimes, something must be done to protect someone from a much greater misfortune.
That’s why it’s so good to talk to people, who are strangers to us, from time to time. That’s why it’s so good, that we don’t see our eyes and emotions pouring through our faces and bodies. That’s why it’s a good place for us. Thank you girls. And thank you HG.
Hey Joa, that’s interesting. I could have sworn HG said in an interview that every empath has a showing of Standard in their EDC and that Standard carried the empathic traits that formed the empath. It was a Doug interview, I’ll have to re listen.
I can very much identify with your description of absorbing emotion. I would say I tend not to mirror the emotion back though. If someone was elated I’d be bouncy and happy for them, but that would be my happiness at their good news, rather than mirroring their emotion back to them.
I do think the connection is stronger with another empath emotions wise. I can’t even shield my emotions from my empath friend, he knows instantly. That could be that there’s no need to shield with him or, both having Contagion elements we just tune in more easily. Likely the former I think.
Xx
TS you are remembering partially correctly, what I explained was that within Codependent, Super and Contagion, they each have a bedrock of standard behaviours interwoven within that category which is then layered on top with the “specialities” associated with those schools. Accordingly, you may not have standard show in the outcome for an EDC, but it still forms the bedrock of the other schools.
HG,
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I do try to be accurate when making reference to your work, so the clarification here is much appreciated.
You are welcome.
TS, yes, emotions are only mine – even if they involve other people. But they are much stronger than in most people (donors) / I flaunt them more outside / I can talk about them clearly, explain them and show them without fear. My Geyser is probably affecting it.
People are not sure about their feelings. I do. And I can name them well. Sometimes I think, I know what someone is feeling faster than they do. If I don’t know – I will ask and make a “diagnosis” quickly. When he/she gains confidence, he/she will be able to celebrate his/her feelings to the full extent 🙂
I also give a signal, that with me you can safely open up and radiate. No need to hide – just like I don’t hide.
I very quickly “open” people with a “key” appropriate for them.
You can also say, that I infect other people with my emotions. Naturally and effortlessly.
And I love it about myself! 🙂
I guess it’s a bit narcissistic – I love to influence the mood of people around me – also complete strangers. I do it on purpose and with premeditation. Only when my surroundings are satisfied, happy, smiling, can I also radiate.
It’s as if happiness is forbidden to me, until I make others happy. Only then can I afford it. I have earned it, I am calm seeing the satisfaction of people around me and then I can take the prize – something for myself.
I forgot to add. Very rarely there are people (N women), whose mood is completely indifferent to me. They do not exist for me, they are like air.
And even worse. When I see their fatigue, burnout, when they are mean to me, when they attack me (with the hands of other people) or complain about me to other people (information always reaches me) – my degree of satisfaction increases.
Especially, when they’re so powerless, that they complain about me to Narcissistic men. It makes me drunk 🙂
What a fucked up personality. I try to control it and not go too far (very rarely, but still, I sometimes draw the air with my claw). I am completely indifferent 95% of the time. No movement, not even a twitch. It’s enough to make them mad with irritation.
Hmmm, I seem to have wandered off topic again 🙂 And I like percentages lately, ha ha ha 🙂
Hello Joa 🙂
It’s interesting how you mention that you like to influence the mood of other people. I don’t often think about that. I think I’m set to ‘receive’ rather than ‘transmit’. That kind of makes sense because I’m generally quite guarded. I far prefer to learn about others and what they are feeling, rather than revealing what I am feeling.
I can transmit. I will do it more if someone feels anxious / erratic / chaotic. Then I’ll transmit calm or confidence to rebalance, to settle them. It’s intentional in those circumstances, but generally I wouldn’t intentionally send out emotion to change a mood. I’m too selfish haha! My thoughts and emotions are mine to know.
I do wonder whether having a narcissist mother somehow caused me to see my own emotions as a kind of currency, something of value that I give only when I’m ready to give and not before. Something once given I can also take back. MY emotion. MY thoughts. I will share, but I won’t share with everyone.
Speaking of intuition, I learned something new tonight. Apparently another way to describe intuition is ‘abstract thought’. Logical thinking would be ‘concrete thought’. Concrete thought is detailed, like an instruction manual with definitive instructions. Abstract thought is based more on the relationship between subjects and categories and, it is based on finding patterns and then making sense of those patterns.
I think that’s accurate. I’m an abstract thinker not a concrete thinker. I’m far more interested in why A is leading to B rather than exactly what A is.
‘Pattern spotting’ is apparently very much what intuition is.
Dear TS, I think there are two forms of transmitting. The active – you do it intentionally and the inactive – the transmission of your presence happens. It radiates. As in HG’s description: „…that emptiness to bleed into the world around me. I see there are times when those proximate to me experience the presence of that emptiness also. I see the shift in their countenance. The nervous flicker of their glance towards me, a sudden shift as if the temperature in the room has dropped by many degrees, a shudder which washes over them. I see then that they have felt what I am…“
The presence of each individual will transmit something.
Another good example of how it works; there was an experiment. Scientists measured the different energetic charge of plants resulting from two different individuals entering the room. The empathic person who took care of the plant, gave it water, put it in sunlight, spoke to it with positive emotions. And the opposite person, who harmed the plant, ripped its leafs, removed it from sunlight or let it almost dry out and spoke to it with aggression or ignored it. Over time the two different players just had to appear and the plant’s energetic charge changed. The plant would even gradually turn away (as they do with turning towards the sunlight) from the corner where the harmful person stayed.
Plants don’t have eyes or brains but an awareness of the energy which enters the room.
This discovery is mind-blowing. It changes everything of what we think an interplay between living beings is and how it affects the physical. There is a field which transmits and receives.
„I do wonder whether having a narcissist mother somehow caused me to see my own emotions as a kind of currency…“ — Exactly! emotions are currency, an energy directed by attention and intention. OR unintentionally – is how we are conditioned, to assume that we are in control of this current.
„…to see my own emotions as a kind of currency, something of value that I give only when I’m ready to give and not before.“ — Yes, it is something of value. That value is greater than all the riches in the world, because it is the basis of all the riches in the world. The physical is a means to an end to experience those emotions in the first place.
„Something once given I can also take back.“ — Once given, it can’t be taken back — you paid – you influenced. But you can stop giving or don’t care if you give. It depends on how full is your pocket. But also if you were put in the right tax category and perhaps gave too much.
„MY emotion. MY thoughts. I will share…“ — Not ultimately YOUR thoughts, YOUR emotions. What is the nature of those thoughts? Greed? Guilt? Fear or other limiting thoughts and thus emotions? Maybe those thoughts are those of your mom and dad or some teacher. What about the positive once? Same applies here. But NOW you can choose which of them to make YOUR thoughts and emotions. See thoughts and emotions as your servants, you choose to serve you.
„Concrete thought… Abstract thought…“ — We need both💕
Hi Jordyguin,
Yes, I would agree that there is a transmission of presence. It’s similar to the way you can feel a person enter the room when your back is turned and know who that person is. I remember reading that experiment about the plant too! I was also struck by it and for the same reason, it had to be based on energy, there was no better explanation.
You are correct also in that once emotion and thoughts are given those same thoughts and emotions can’t be taken back. Sloppy writing on my part. I was referring to the access to those thoughts and emotions, that can be taken back. All the emotion that was once offered freely can be drawn back in. I have done that with each narc I have been ensnared by. Pulled the emotion back in, raised the shield.
I agree, we do need concrete thought as well as abstract. Abstract thought is my automatic setting, concrete thought for me is a real effort. I’ll do it if I have to but I’ll also avoid it if I can get away with it!
Xx
„All the emotion that was once offered freely can be drawn back in. I have done that with each narc I have been ensnared by. Pulled the emotion back in, raised the shield.“
It’s a very useful technique!!! I read about it! Did you come to this instinctively?
Truthseeker–
“All the emotion that was once offered freely can be drawn back in. I have done that with each narc I have been ensnared by. Pulled the emotion back in, raised the shield.”
After you put up your shield…do you find that you are completely unaffected by anything the narcissist does?
i.e. If you discovered them to be smearing you, if they complained to you about you being cold or mean (or whatever other manipulation their narcissism deemed appropriate).
Or is the result more a dramatic fuel reduction?
‘I forgot to add. Very rarely there are people (N women), whose mood is completely indifferent to me. They do not exist for me, they are like air. And even worse. When I see their fatigue, burnout, when they are mean to me, when they attack me (with the hands of other people) or complain about me to other people (information always reaches me) – my degree of satisfaction increases. Especially, when they’re so powerless, that they complain about me to Narcissistic men. It makes me drunk 🙂’
I think this is your Super coming out Joa. I recognise the combative instinct, the desire to fight. I also instinctively respond to provocation with an urge to fight back, to disempower my enemy or to see them disempowered.
‘What a fucked up personality. I try to control it and not go too far (very rarely, but still, I sometimes draw the air with my claw).’
Well, yes, it’s a bit fucked up! (And I say that being the same!) But I agree, it settles back down and like you I control it and am able to decide, usually, whether to act on those combative feelings.
It’s possibly both a blessing and a curse – useful at times, in need of reining in at others.
Jordyguin, Dani,
Sorry, I lost a comment I had just written to Rebecca and scrolling up found your question about drawing emotion back in.
Dani, no I am not bothered by anything the narc does once I reach the point where I decide to give nothing further of myself emotionally. They could set themselves on fire to be honest and other than perhaps doing the right thing (my own moral code) it wouldn’t impact me. Smearing wouldn’t concern me either, though to my knowledge I have never been smeared. People can believe what they want to believe, if their opinion of me is so low as to believe the smear without even questioning for my side of the story, then they weren’t worth bothering with anyway. That would be my general stance on that.
It takes a while for me to reach that tipping point, where I pull everything back in. I will try to fix a relationship, I will try to help and support and I will give an awful lot to it, too much probably. There is just a point that once reached, it just switches me off. I turn and that’s it, no anger, no revenge, no nothing at all.
Xx
Oh, annaamel – thank you! I haven’t seen your reply before. You put it very well and I feel a little cleansed 🙂 Thank you for this feeling of relief!
Hi Truthseeker!
“Sometimes it can be in relation to people, seeing very clearly what lies beneath”
Is this more likely with people you know well or do you get similar feelings about people who are public figures famous actors/politicians/sports players/etc?
“When looking at majority schools I think certain behaviours automatically rule out one school or another from being a majority.”
Which empath behaviors belong most strongly with which schools do you think?
Hi Danni 🙂
In terms of people, I can hand on heart say that I’ve only been horrendously wrong once. That was online narc. I have been ensnared three times including online narc but with narc one and two, looking back on it, I would say that I was aware of their character. I didn’t know they were narcissists but in the case of narc one, I knew I didn’t trust him, suspected he didn’t love me etc. Narc two I never really bought in to him at all, but the sex was mind blowing so I enjoyed that for a time without ever really attaching as I would do ordinarily. Online narc I was wrong about in entirety and I firmly believe that’s because he was online.
I don’t have any feelings about public figures, celebrities etc. Not intuition based feelings at least. I’m just not interested. I think that’s the main reason. I’m interested in HG’s analysis of public figures in that I’m curious but I’m not invested in the outcome either way.
It’s people that I meet myself. That’s who I’m interested in getting the measure of. People that I might have dealings with financially, be friends with or friends of my family members etc. That’s when I’m paying attention and giving my intuition a good run out. I think that’s a case of self defence really. Weeding out possible threats, whether those threats are finance related social or personal. I like to know what I’m dealing with one way or the other.
In terms of empath behaviours, I can’t speak about all schools and cadres. For the schools and cadres in my empathic makeup I would agree with HG’s description of them in the relevant articles. ‘ The Saviour Empath’ etc. I might have more emphasis in one direction or another but the schools and cadres as he has described them fit my own behaviours.
I’m well thank you Danni, looking forward to Summer. How are you?
Xx
Hi TS–
“I’m interested in HG’s analysis of public figures in that I’m curious but I’m not invested in the outcome either way.” — H.G. does so much work on those analysis. Even if I don’t know of the person prior to watching one, I still learn enormous amounts about what to look for. Also it’s totally clear how much work H.G. puts into it all, how his mind works. How quickly he does what he does. *mind blown* I’m invested in learning how to do that…I wish I could learn to do it as quickly as H.G. but H.G. clearly has an Alastor to assist him…
I’m doing alright. Can’t complain…summer is almost here.
Hi Danni,
I agree, the analysis of public figures is thorough and must be incredibly time consuming. I like the part towards the end when HG reels off all of the manipulations and aspects of the narcissistic dynamic. It is interesting from a learning / academic perspective, I think I’ve listened to all of them apart from the recent Chrissy Teegan Taygan videos. I find her so aggravating even HG’s acerbic wit can’t offset my irritation! In terms of being invested in the outcome though, I’m not. Will Smith was the closest I came to any emotional investment in the outcome. Maybe it’s because most celebrities I just find fake, maybe that’s because most are narcs! Haha! Who knows?
Xx
Hi TS,
I’ve watched many of them, but I stay away from a few that get periodic updates because they I know that the content will be a bit much for me. I’m glad that the people who want H.G’s perspective on those cases get it, and there is plenty of other content that I can go to. I appreciate when Mr. Tudor gives a warning in them.
Chrissy Teegan Taygan Taigan….It comforts me to hear Mr. Tudor’s acerbic wit after he encounters content about her…It assures me that his IQ remains intact…because whatever she has said…experience has taught me that it’ll be stupid…
I’m really loving the new “Q and A with HG Tudor.” It’s wonderful!
Dani,
So sorry, I just noticed I spelt your name wrong repeatedly. Didn’t mean to do that.
Xx
Hi Dani,
Me too, I love the Q&A sessions. Have to say though, I really enjoyed the blog Q&A sessions before the YouTube channel really kicked in. They were live with fewer people so you had the opportunity to stick to a line of questioning, to pursue it. I miss those. That said, with the viewership of YouTube, the current format facilitates more listeners having at least one question answered. I understand that. I just miss the depth of the original blog Q&A format.
I enjoy the interviews. Probably for the same reason, more depth to the discussion and a line of questioning can be pursued. Doug is still my favourite interviewer. I really warmed to Doug and his cult experience adds another dimension to the topic, which again gives additional food for thought.
Xx
Hi TS,
I only just saw this now. (well just before I responded.)
“Me too, I love the Q&A sessions. Have to say though, I really enjoyed the blog Q&A sessions before the YouTube channel really kicked in. They were live with fewer people so you had the opportunity to stick to a line of questioning, to pursue it.” — That sounds amazing…*gives H.G. a hopeful look* Maybe you could do one of those again, H.G. Please? Are those accessible here? Or have they been posted to YouTube?
“That said, with the viewership of YouTube, the current format facilitates more listeners having at least one question answered. I understand that. I just miss the depth of the original blog Q&A format.” – YouTube reaches more people, too. So more people are getting the information that they need, and H.G. is achieving his goals…of legacy. And I got to learn what weapon H.G. would use in a zombie apocalypse…I wouldn’t have thought to ask that.
Interviews are amazing. I like Doug (Agreed. The cult experience adds something unique to their conversations.) and Harry (special interest meets narcissist, and I thought H.G. was firm, yet polite…when I could tell that Harry could keep going for some time.) and Dr. Friedman (the topic of the latest one was something I’d been very curious about).
They are accessible through the Knowledge Vault.
Hi TS. You seem a bit less sceptical/cynical in outlook than I am, I reckon. I can’t recall what your contagion percentage is if I’ve read it already. Is it majority contagion? Do you know the percentage? And what were your other schools? The main differences between you and I it seems is sensing something will or will not happen (I don’t have this) feeling a problem with a space (not me) and transmitting feelings between you and others (I don’t believe I do this any more than regular people do it, based on reading/providing expressions, body language etc.). Also, if you don’t mind me asking – what’s your professional field – as generally as you can comfortably state it.
Hi Danni,
Yes, the blog equivalents of Ask HG are in the knowledge Vault. Well worth a read; I think you’ll love them actually.
Yes, YouTube does have a wider reach, I totally see the logic behind pursuing that avenue. I like the Tea with Sam and HG videos too. Same reason, more in depth discussion, relaxed style.
The zombie apocalypse question made me chuckle when I heard it. I remember asking HG which car he would choose in the event of a Zombie Apocalypse. I hadn’t been on the blog too long, I don’t think I got an answer to that one come to think of it!
Xx
I’d choose your car TS and if you gave me any lip I would push you out for the zombies to enjoy!
Oh for goodness sake. I’ve done it again. Come on TS.
It’s really not that difficult. D A N I.
( Sorry Dani) xx
Hi Annaamel,
Mmm not sure. Cynical is probably one of the first words I’d use to describe myself! I think perhaps there are just a few events in my life I haven’t managed to find explanations for, so when it comes to Contagion, I’m forced to keep an open mind on the one hand whilst seeking a more scientific explanation on the other.
Contagion is not my majority school. It is a significant minority element, albeit one that I use regularly.
I have a mix of schools in my make up including Super, Contagion and CoD. I do know my school and cadre percentage breakdowns but elect not to give them on the blog. Cadres are mostly Saviour and Magnet.
My professional background is in sales and sales training.
Xx
Thank you, sir!
Truthseeker,
No worries on the name.
And please don’t give Mr. Tudor any “lip” during the Zombie Apocalypse when he takes your car….remember that you’re with the best tactician to keep you alive…always wear your seatbelt. And that person soaring overhead with a jet-pack, a flamethrower, and a can-do attitude…that’s me.
Ah, an excellent choice HG.
I went with the Toyota HiLux. (I know my Top Gear.) I had it modified, stocked and armoured a few weeks prior. I saw the Zombie Apocalypse coming. Obviously.
Lip? Moi?!
Truthseeker said
“Lip? Moi?”
HG was referring to the Xx at the end of your comment.
But HG, no worries,
those were for Dani!
HI TS and Dani,
Don’t forget to use your Zombie Raid, especially TS, before HG kicks you out of your own car! Don’t forget to push the passenger eject button, rude passengers are gone passengers! 😄xx
Dani,
My thoughts exactly on the tactician front 😉
Xx
Rebecca,
I’m in the passenger seat. I thought perhaps HG might prefer to drive, given his evasive driving skills?
This will also allow me the opportunity to watch in appreciation whilst offering many admiring words and gestures.
😇
(I think I’m good for Oxford roundabout)
TS,
Yeah, you’ll definitely enjoy the view from the passenger side. …Lucky you! Xx Just don’t look out the window at the zombies coming! Where’s Negan’ s bat , when you need it? 😆
Rebecca, that sounds a lot like…mutiny
Rebecca,
Michonne’s sword. I liked Michonne a lot!
Hi Dani and TS,
Mutiny? Nah, the Negan bat is for the zombies….Besides, HG would snatch the bat before anyone could hit him with it and whomever the fool was, would become zombie food. 😆 xx
TS,
I watched that show from the beginning, lost interest when they took Rick out of the story. It was pretty good series,to then. The Governor and Negan were well played villains. I grew to like Negan, I think he was a narc, but he had his good points and humor. Xx
Hi TS,
Yes, she was a good character. Michonne, do you think her character was normal or an empath? I definitely saw empathy from her. I’m going with normal.
Negan was a narc, I think….maybe Psychopath? Your thoughts?
Hi Rebecca,
I watched Walking Dead whilst in the US but didn’t return to it once back in the UK. I got up to the introduction of Negan, right at the start of that season, saw him wield his bat when everyone was gagged and bound in the circle, but that was the last episode I saw.
Michonne, I’d need to rewatch to offer a considered opinion there. I liked her from her opening scenes. She carried a sword so she could kill noiselessly without drawing a swarm. She had the two zombies in chains without their arms as a ready made zombie warning system. That’s clever, considered and the mind of a survivor. So I liked her from the off.
She was doing just fine on her own. It was the dumbassery of others that put her at risk. She does the right thing. She has a moral code that fits the circumstances and she sticks to it. This is probably why I would opt for empath. Normals would descend into selfishness and immorality far faster. She holds steady, has a code of conduct. She’s guarded emotionally but that doesn’t rule her out from the empath group. Once in the group she protects the group even at risk to herself, so again I’d nudge towards that being her moral compass as opposed to the zone of empathy experienced by a normal. Overall though, not sure, normal is definitely a possibility.
I think that series (at least in the first few seasons) was very accurate in depicting what would happen if societal pillars were to fall. Humans would descend into murder and chaos very rapidly. It’s possible I have a low regard for the human race in general. On the whole I find people disappointing so perhaps we wouldn’t descend into murderous chaos so quickly. I think we would, hopefully I won’t ever get the chance to find out.
Xx
Hi TS,
You touched on a lot of reasons I liked the season, the characters were realistic and the environment was what I imagined it would be like. You wouldn’t be disappointed, if you watched more episodes. Negan is a great Psychopath. I didn’t like him at first, but I grew to like him, respect him and even agree with some of his decisions. He made logical decisions, he had a very analytical mindset. He got things done, even though at times, he had to take off a few heads. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I might go back to it. I’m curious to watch Negan now! I do struggle to watch too many seasons of one show but actually I hadn’t tired of that show when I left it.
The only thing that really bugged me was Rick’s son insisting on wearing that sheriff’s hat all the time! That grated on me like mad for some reason. I was willing a zombie end for him haha!
Xx
@TS,
You won’t be disappointed in what happens to Carl then. I would recommend you see what happens and yes, Negan is a villain I believe HG would approve of, he’s very diabolical in what he does to people. He was the kind of villain, you love to hate, but then grows on you…xx
Rebecca,
Does he die in the hat?
(Bet he does.)
Xx
TS,
You know, you’re going to laugh, but I can’t recall if he had the hat on , or not. The hat wasn’t a focus of mine. 😆 I was more upset about what happened, I tend to get into characters, either on the screen or in a book and when a character, I like, gets hurt or killed, I get emotionally upset. I know they’re not real people, but I still get upset by it. Just like when I watch a scary movie, ill scream and hide behind my hands. I know it’s not real, but I still get frightened and react with fear. I don’t get that, I guess it’s ET?? It is what it is, I guess. I’d like to know why I do that, even when I know it’s fake. My mind just gets into it and the rest of my surroundings melts away and my focus is just the movie, or just the book. Hyperfocus, tunnel vision. Xx
You have a strong intuition!
Hi Contagious,
I think so, but that ‘think so’ is subjective too. I would associate intuition with Contagion, but that’s a personal view and might not be relevant to Contagion characteristics.
@Jordyguin – this section you quoted – can you tell me where it comes from, please?
“…that emptiness to bleed into the world around me. I see there are times when those proximate to me experience the presence of that emptiness also…”
I think I have felt that or something similar. I couldn’t understand it at the time. I want to read the whole piece.
Thanks in advance 🙏
Hi Lucy, it’s from here! https://narcsite.com/2023/05/15/knowing-the-psychopath-an-uncaring-perfect-predator-2/
I think contagians are very intuitive. I have been told some of my precognitive dreams are just high intuition. I know my intuition is strong. It has served me very well in my law practice. Sometimes though you just know the just result won’t happen from a judge and there is nothing you can do. It doesn’t mean always a win but it’s a great skill for negotiation.
Lucy, that excerpt comes from this HG post: https://narcsite.com/2023/03/11/knowing-the-psychopath-an-uncaring-perfect-predator/
Annamel,
You know what? I don’t think there is any ‘should’ about it. You experience it how you experience it 🙂
So you might not pick up on the emotions of others in the way you expect a contagion empath might. It’s true, many contagion empaths report absorbing the emotions of others, but, you don’t. That’s not your thing. There will be other aspects that you do experience. It could be a oneness with nature, a sensitivity to places people or objects, a dislike of crowds. A need to decompress alone when you have been in company all day. Maybe you experience Contagion as an ability to understand people without necessarily absorbing emotion. Maybe some buildings or places just feel ‘wrong’ and you avoid entering them or you experience a feeling of connection with others.
I think for me, contagion is a wholly non factual experience. It’s knowing, without being able to explain how I know and being absolutely certain that I am correct.
I’m likely not helping here haha! What you read here on this thread won’t be exhaustive. Maybe figure out what contagion means to you. Scrap the expectation and just let it sit with you for a while.
To be honest I rejected part of my school make up to begin with. I can understand your questioning because I did the same. Over time, as I understood more about the various schools and cadres I began to relate more of my own experiences to the EDC and I realised that it was in fact correct. Sometimes it’s as much about which schools you don’t fit into as it is about those you do.
It might well be a case of things taking a little time to fall into place for you, that’s all 🙂
Xx
TS, I do appreciate your positivity. Is that a strong trait for you?
‘So you might not pick up on the emotions of others in the way you expect a contagion empath might.’
My understanding is that every contagion empath here says they can do this. They consider this to be the essence of contagion.
‘It’s true, many contagion empaths report absorbing the emotions of others’
Are there any other than me who think they don’t?
‘but, you don’t.’
No. I cannot instinctively, accurately feel what others are feeling. If someone else is sad, and I’m not looking at them (say, they’re behind a curtain), I can’t feel that sadness. If I can’t see or hear them, won’t feel anything coming from them at all.
‘That’s not your thing.’
It’s not in my abilities.
‘There will be other aspects that you do experience. It could be a oneness with nature’
I’ll be honest here and say I’m not sure what a oneness with nature is. Do I feel calm on an empty beach, in any weather? Yes. Am I happiest if I have my own outdoor space where I live? Do I try to escape to nature periodically to recharge? No.
‘a sensitivity to places people or objects, a dislike of crowds.’
People can be an aggravating factor, but if I am reasonably fond of all the people in the crowd it’s much less of a problem. I don’t think I am sensitive to objects or places. I wouldn’t walk into an old house and get an unsettling vibe from it because something terrible had happened there and I hadn’t been informed. I’d feel nothing unusual.
‘A need to decompress alone when you have been in company all day. ‘
Yes, but not because I’ve picked up their emotions.
‘Maybe you experience Contagion as an ability to understand people without necessarily absorbing emotion.’
This is definitely getting closer to how I experience it. I definitely feel emotions strongly when I am exposed to some stimuli and I take active steps to minimise those exposures.
.Maybe some buildings or places just feel ‘wrong’ and you avoid entering them or you experience a feeling of connection with others.’
As above – no. And the connection with others, and how that works, is what I’d say is the crux of this.
‘I think for me, contagion is a wholly non factual experience.’
Instinct? Intuition? A sixth sense?
‘It’s knowing, without being able to explain how I know and being absolutely certain that I am correct.’
I’m curious about the ‘knowing.’ Does it require verification that you’re correct? And if that verification didn’t come, would you still be sure?
In my example from before, with a person behind a curtain, making no sound, and you not knowing anything about their situation, being aware only that there was a person there, would you be able to pick up their emotions? And know for sure they were true and accurate?
‘I’m likely not helping here haha!’
No you are! I like that you are trying to dissect this with me.
‘What you read here on this thread won’t be exhaustive.’
Exhaustive, no. Exhausting? A little!
‘Maybe figure out what contagion means to you. Scrap the expectation and just let it sit with you for a while.’
I realise you’re giving me room to be myself. But we’re talking about a classification that is supposedly as definite as the other schools. I’m pulled away from other schools because I’m pulled into Contagion. I could have been 100% my other school!
Also, if i choose how I see it, or recognise it, doesn’t it mean the other schools are also all up for interpretation? Can co-dependent readers work through Chained and think ‘that’s all well and good but I do my co-d differently. Mine is actually a superpower. I am going to embrace it as a wonderful strength rather than an unmet need I’m trying to satisfy in ways that lead to my own abuse?’ I don’t particularly want to define my own version of contagion. I don’t mind if there are some differences between us but I’d like there to be a core similarity.
.’To be honest I rejected part of my school make up to begin with. I can understand your questioning because I did the same.’
I didn’t question it at all when I first received it. It felt entirely accurate. I felt (excuse this phrase) ‘seen.’ I felt kind of validated with my bonkers level emotions and provocations. It was only after reading the discussions on the forum that I began to question whether I really did fit with Contagion.
‘Over time, as I understood more about the various schools and cadres I began to relate more of my own experiences to the EDC and I realised that it was in fact correct.’
You and I seem to have had the reverse experience.
‘Sometimes it’s as much about which schools you don’t fit into as it is about those you do.’
I agree with you.
‘It might well be a case of things taking a little time to fall into place for you, that’s all 🙂’
You may be right. Thankyou for your comments, TS.
Hi Annamel,
Positive. Not sure. Possibly. It’s not a word that would instantly spring to mind if I was describing myself, but I don’t think I’m a pessimist so maybe!
Something I thought about when I read your experiences. If we swapped the word ‘emotion’ with the word ‘energy’ do you think that would be closer to your own experience? You made me think when you mentioned that being in a group of friends would be easier than a crowd of unknowns. I’d agree with that. It isn’t that I pick up on the emotion of every single person in the crowd. I couldn’t point to each person and tell you what they are feeling. If I’m with friends then you could argue that I’m familiar with their energy so it’s likely why I might find it easier to be in a group of friends than strangers. I’d still feel overloaded though afterwards, just not AS overloaded.
If there was a single person behind a curtain that I hadn’t spoken to and couldn’t see, would I absorb their emotion? Don’t think so, no. I’d need to be face to face and communicating, at least to begin with. That said, I could walk into a room and find it oppressive. It might be empty or with people in it. The first example could be based on an assimilation of information into a picture that then prompts an emotional response to be generated in me. The second appears to be far more energy based.
There might be a difference in the descriptors people use to communicate their experiences. Energy, I always think of crystals and such like. That’s definitely not my style. In some examples though energy is definitely a closer descriptor than emotion.
Contagion isn’t my lead school but it is a significant percentage. It might well be that I notice my Contagion more because it isn’t there all of the time. So if Contagion was music, then a full Contagion empath would have that background music playing almost constantly and not recognise it’s there. I would have silence then the music switches on, so therefore it’s perhaps more noticeable to me. Just bouncing ideas around here.
It’ll be interesting to see the full analysis of the Contagion empath when HG completes it. I have the feeling that I’ll be less Contagion than I think I am and others might be more. Our experiences go through our own interpretation and then get further scrambled when we communicate them.
I see what you mean with the schools. The expectation is for a definitive explanation of what each school is and the behaviours associated with it. Of all the empathic schools I think Contagion is likely the toughest to categorise. It’s more feelings based than the others. The significance of Contagion I think is very linked to how the empath interprets it. We could both read our tea leaves for example and I might say, “ Look, that’s the face of Jesus right there!” You might look and say, “ Looks like a tree to me.” Haha! I think you see what I’m driving at. It’s subjective, more so than the other schools which I see as far more behaviour based. That’s just my take on it, others might disagree.
I don’t see myself as psychic no. Intuitive definitely and I absolutely rely on that intuition, it has served me well. Yes yes ok I use logic more now than I used to but I’m still intuition led and will remain so.
Yes, we do seem to have experienced our EDC results in opposing directions. I think though whichever direction we travel that circle, we likely end up in the same place eventually. HG does have that tendency to be right.
I do think Contagion has a lot to do with the way our brains assimilate information subconsciously. I think we are subconsciously finding patterns and organising those patterns into thoughts that make sense or cause us to draw a conclusion. We action that conclusion, categorise it as intuition, when in actual fact all the information was there the whole time, it’s just that most people didn’t notice it.
I’ll stop now haha!
Xx
‘You made me think when you mentioned that being in a group of friends would be easier than a crowd of unknowns‘
Just to clarify here, it is more about shared perspective that friends/unknowns. I don’t need to know the other people. If I think they all share my perspective in at least one important way that’s enough to make me feel comfortable. Like it we were all at a rock concert enjoying the band, I’d like the crowd. Or if we were all at a speech by a person we were interested in or admired. I’d be happy in that crowd.
It’s when I feel hostility around me, or challenge, or a whole lot of different agendas pushing up against each other. That changes the energy for me. And I’m never sure on my readings in crowds. It’s subjective and I’m assuming what others think if I don’t have any definite clues. My biases would likely operate as well.
‘If there was a single person behind a curtain that I hadn’t spoken to and couldn’t see, would I absorb their emotion? Don’t think so, no. I’d need to be face to face and communicating, at least to begin with.’
When you say ‘to begin with’, TS, what do you mean?
Hi Annamel,
‘To begin with.’ I’m probably best giving an example here. This is usually how it would work.
The first time I walked into my current gym as a member, I didn’t know anyone. So like most people, I’ll say hello, smile, make small talk (urrgh) but it isn’t really a conversation, it’s pleasantries. At this point I would estimate that I’m observant, aware. I’m taking in information by observation and in fairness I am observant but there’s no Contagion in play.
Over time the small talk turns to conversation. It’s face to face, engaged, people tell me about themselves and so on. They do that pretty quickly usually. This is the point where I would say Contagion is in play. I’m actively reaching within that conversation and the Contagion information is beginning to come online in broad terms. I know if a person is genuine or not, I know if the lyrics match the music. I’m establishing if you fall into the trustworthy or untrustworthy categories, fake or genuine. For me that’s the king pin. That’s really what I’m after and it really doesn’t take me long to establish that.
So let’s say I have someone in the genuine category. As days go by they will gravitate to me and I to them. Deeper conversation, at least as deep as you can have in that environment. Now I’ll get a full connection, a full read if you like. I’ll take in the emotion behind the words, or the general feeling being transmitted from that point on. Sometimes, only if we are close by each other, or we are talking. Other times, as with my empath friend, the moment our eyes meet as I walk through the door. Full transfer. Brave face or no brave face, attempting to hide it or not, it’s utterly irrelevant. I know how he feels because I am feeling it too. It’s detailed, more than just happy or sad, good day or bad day. As he was escaping ensnarement, his ET was my ET. A real reminder of the pain I had felt myself but not the same as mine had been. He had far more self flagellation within it than I had. He was angry at himself more than I had been. Anger directed only inwards never outwards. Each day I knew exactly where he was with it, I could feel his anxiety, I could feel him battling, I could feel a touch of relief some days, his fight back, all of it. It wasn’t done through conversation, through him telling me, some days there wasn’t even opportunity to talk, but he was close by and I could feel the emotion coming off of him.
So to begin with I wouldn’t have felt all of that detail, it’s a bit like unlocking a door. Once it’s open I get everything but whilst closed, it’s far more distant, it’s the bare bones.
There have been occasional exceptions, where I’ve missed steps one and two and gone straight to the full read, but usually it takes an engaged conversation for me to tune in.
It could be energy. Maybe each emotion carries a different energy and that’s what we feel. It’s very open to interpretation I think.
Xx
My apologies for lack of response, TS. It’s a combination of lack of reply buttons, being on a device which makes liking difficult because I’m not logged into WP, and postponing only to lose track. Thankyou for giving me that detail on your schools and cadres. I knew you and I had some similarity there. I can imagine an intuitive response would be useful in sales as so much is about understanding and predicting human reactions. I recall you saying you were studying too which means you’re either taking your knowledge in that field further or looking at moving into another professional area. I also understand your point that if something seems inexplicable it can be sensible to keep an open mind and be willing to consider a range of explanations.
I read a book a while ago called ‘dogs who know when their owners are coming home’. The author has been pooh-poohed by other scientists (which I do keep in mind) but it was all about the senses animals seem to have which the author suggests humans still likely have deep down but don’t really use anymore.
Thankyou also for your explanation of how your reading of people grows as you establish a deeper connection with them (although I can see there’s interplay there whereby the deeper connection allows you to read them more easily). I also prefer to establish deeper connections with people and as think it’s much more rewarding.
Hi Annamel 🙂
No worries at all on the delay, WordPress is spasmodic at times and I’m not the best on likes either (not a social media person) so I read, ponder, respond and forget the like bit haha!
Yes, agree there is interplay between the intuition and getting to know someone better. The only additional thing of note there, is that I’m not the most trusting of people so a relationship can be building for quite some time but I’m still always ‘reaching’ to check the words match the music I don’t reach a point where the intuitive part switches off and I take at face value. I think there are both negatives and positives to that if I’m quite honest.
Definitely, people reading, or intuition, or both definitely helped with my chosen career. I say chosen, I kind of fell into it really.
I’ve heard of that book, but I can’t remember why or where. It sounds like a title I would definitely read. I love anything like that, plus I’m a real dog lover and have shared incredible bonds with my dogs. Dogs know, they just do, haha! I’m a mix really, I look to the scientific explanation but I do also believe that some things can’t quite be fully explained by science as of yet. It makes sense to me that there are skills that humans might well have lost as we evolved into our modern selves.
I went to a clairvoyant once. That experience and what followed rocked my world and opened my eyes to the fact that some things in this life just fall outside of the scientific and explainable. I count intuition amongst these.
Yes, I clocked the shared schools and cadres too. 🙂 Since being on the blog I’ve noticed similarities of thought and approach amongst those with shared schools and cadres. It stands to reason of course, but it still fascinates me nonetheless.
Xx
TS,
I got my astrological chart done by a professional astrologer many years ago. I recall her saying a Piscean would come not my life and sort it out! She was very sweet – we sat in the kitchen in her house as she went through my chart. She gave me a pink crystal which I still have.
I really enjoyed reading the book – it wasn’t just about dogs but lots of different animals and the abilities and understandings they seem to have which can defy traditional explanations. I haven’t read any of his other books but he has several.
Annamel,
And did the mystery Piscean arrive as predicted? I confess to knowing next to nothing about astrology, but, I did just order ‘Dogs that know when their owners are coming home’ haha! My holiday read sorted. Scientific or not it sounds perfect sunbed material, to me anyway!
I’ll let you know what I think once I finish it 🙂
Xx
‘And did the mystery Piscean arrive as predicted?’
Nope! But I’ve still got time left and stuff to sort out so will continue to hope 😉
‘I did just order ‘Dogs that know when their owners are coming home’
I’m delighted you did. I look forward to your thoughts on it.
Annaamel,
Still time yet.
I had a friend called Katie ( Kitty) from Yorkshire, Rotherham to be precise, broad Yorkshire, funny as they come. She was really into clairvoyants and tarot card readers. She researched them, knew all the best ones to go to. She was responsible for the episode with the clairvoyant I mentioned.
We also went to see a tarot card reader at one point. She was hosting an evening in a hotel an hour or so from where Katie and I worked. So off we went, Kitty and TS on tarot tour. I remember being distinctly unimpressed by this lady. She was far too vague, it was all generalities that could apply to any girl my age. I went through the session and as I paid and stood up to leave, she said “One more thing, that little sports car of yours, you should slow down, you are involved in an accident, not a bad one, but you should really slow down.”
In fairness she probably was in the car behind on the way to the hotel, it had been a sunny evening, country lanes and all that.
Less than six months later I spun that little sports car coming off a roundabout on a dual carriageway in torrential rain. Completely lost control. The front end was squished as it clipped the embankment. When I stopped the rear bumper was so close to a lamp post you couldn’t have got closer if someone had been directing you back. A really nice guy stopped behind me with his hazards on. He checked on me, started my car to check it was safe to drive. That little car started first time haha! He followed me all the way home just in case I was in shock, left me at the top of the bridle path where I lived, with just a little wave. I’d slipped on oil apparently, but I was too fast out of the roundabout if I’m honest.
To be fair, it was probably a safe assumption I’d crash that car at some point. I’ve never had an accident before or since though. I’m not great with stationary objects if the truth be told. I’ve reversed into all sorts in various cars, but only that one accident.
So, you never can tell, there’s time yet for the mystery Piscean!
I had a teeny tiny peek at the book ( supposed to be saving it for a week) looks good! I will, I’ll let you know.
Xx
Truthseeker:
Hg hopefully will give more on contagians but it is not an interpretation of tea leaves. I can tell you with certainty in my profession that my instincts or intuition have helped me in my profession and are more reliable than law. I have settled cases on it, negotiated cases and helped people. It goes beyond emotion although I can take on pain. For example a neighbor not a close friend came up to me two days after work. She said she had bad news. I thought since she was on my HOA I was getting find. She told me her 25 year old son died. This woman is stoic. In her 60s, not an ounce of fat. An engineer. Not a weed in her garden. I looked into her dry eyes and sobbed and grabbed her into a hug. She started crying and said she hadn’t. We walked in nature And I listened. There are no words. I sent her flowers, food, gifts and a book written by a Buddhist nun about dealing with pain as she left in two days to go to Sweden to pick up her sons ashes. I just said you are not at fault, you are a good mother and you aren’t alone. I will be here. Nothing more said. For a day I cried. I am not a crier. But sometimes it happens to me. I feel the reason people come to me with their problems is not my profession but something about me. It could be an elevator. My constant lucid dreams are rare and scientific. Even my quest to control and talk to my subconscious in dreams is scientific. So much is not understood by the science community it gives me validation. There is proof of mirroring in contagian. I don’t believe in psychics as I believe most are schooled some with degrees in psychology. So if you want a cheap counselor find a good psychologist. But Micheal Crighten the writer of Jurassic park and the Andronomous Syndrome ( spelling?) who was Harvard educated as a lawyer and a doctor scoured the Earth to uncover the truth about psychics and he said 99% are not but he claims he found some and believes in astral travel. I have not. Nor have I seen ghosts I think. Nor do I see auras or feel things from objects. I did take a reiki class thinking it would be yoga and had an unusual experience in meditation. I thought my candle exploded into a twilight color and it was a hoax only to find out it was as a normal candle. The class said meditation can bring out unusual experiences??? My point is that an interest in dreams or “ knowing” what someone feels is not emotion but an intuition. I dreamed of the time of death of the murder of my best friend at 40. Clocks everywhere in my dream saying 2:17 am. The LA coroner put me smack between a 30 minute time of cause of death at trial which was 2:00 to 2:30 am. She did 800 autopsies a year. I had no way of knowing. HG says coincidence. Hmmm. If just one dream like that in my life, I would agree. More is going on. I had it written down awhile before the trial. There’s more and more other dreams. I was told I have a heightened intuition. That makes no sense to me. But ok.I have no answers. The point is the knowing is like watching The Mentalist, it’s not emotion based. I have spotted psychopaths and narcs too. HG work heightens my knowingness. I have met many contagians on this blog who have the same experience. Maybe we have an inner calmness that attracts other. I have found animals even wild life come to me. People close who are around me notice too. Nature is my peace. I don’t know how varied contagians are?maybe there are subgroups. I hope HG does more writing on the subject. I don’t reply to offend but to explain. All the best always
Hi Contagious,
Sorry, have only just seen this. Please don’t take my earlier tea leaves example to heart. It was just a light hearted example, no cynicism was meant by it, though I can be cynical at times!
I think what this thread shows really is that Contagion is quite broad in the way that we each experience it. Intuition will show itself in different ways for different empaths with varying amounts of Contagion in their empathic make up. I don’t experience lucid dreams but I certainly don’t disbelieve those who do. Contagion in some ways might be what we make of it. Intuition isn’t concrete, we can choose to follow it or not, we can interpret, place value on it or not. There are definite similarities that come out on this thread though, as well as differences. Like you, I very much value my intuition, like you I see it as giving me an advantage. I certainly would not want to be without it!
I hope you find the answers you are looking for Contagious.
Xx
I will interfere. I’m mostly CoD. While reading “Chained”, I agreed almost 100% with what I was reading “about myself”, but the whole time, I was also thinking just like you wrote: “I do it differently” or “It flows differently”.
I wanted to write here on the blog about it, how I see it and what conclusions I have. Maybe someday I’ll do it. But I had to stop, I didn’t finish reading this book or start reading the others I bought. This book was “too close” to me. In addition, HG was describing his sister there. I felt the relations too much. And than, I was the pressure at work. High emotions almost blew me away 🙂 I had problems with blood pressure and high pulse for almost 2 weeks, although I do not have high blood pressure. I had to “throw it” away and everything went back to normal by itself, it’s ok.
Maybe I’ll come back to this book later. But I have to read it in stages and differently (observer). I’ll know, when I can do it safely.
Hi all! To be honest it would mean contagions differ greatly. I am the opposite. I know what people are feeling and people come to me like bees on honey. Yesterday a DV victim approached me and I gave her great advice. It could be a stranger on a train who tells me their life story. Even dogs run to me at the park and even unfamiliar ones I know where to scratch. I am the rock to my friends and family. Do I absorb pain or emotion? Well if something good happens I can’t stop feeling elevated but I try to block the pain as I can’t help. Do I get drained? I go to nature and even there I have bonds with wild animals, I have a wild bunny twila who is not afraid. A black phoebe rumbles who once flew in my house when I called her. Even the big coyote sat down and watched me tilting his head as I told it to go away, it did, but it seemed amused by my threats. I have nonstop weekly lucid dreams some I can control. Only 1% of the world per chatGPT have this. Only half the population experience lucid dreams. It’s both not common and rare. I have been unsuccessful at talking to my subconscious but trying. I seem to direct responses in my dreams and awakening versus causing an authentic response. I identify strongly with my classification and was grateful to meet people here that validated my experience which is weird to some. There is scientific study on mirror neurons. Maybe the lack of knowledge is why we differ. I am standard. Some super, geyser but like 1%. Savior and matey but a true majority contagian and it resonates for me and I am grateful to HG.
Oh yes, nature is a reservoir of energy and clarity… Nourishing, majestic, unstoppable and splendid…
Nice to hear from you, Contagious😘… Hihi the coyote!
How is the control in dreams going??
And wanted to ask you, have you ever dated or had a longterm relationship with someone other than a narcissist/psychopath? Who were the most fulfilling? And why?
Hi jordyguin! You will laugh! Th coyote came out and there was not only my frenzies Inspector Clouseau and LuluB ( say lullaby in French) but my neighbors 3 and 4 year old. I dashed toward the coyote while yelling at kids and dogs to get in the house. Wow they all did. I chased him down a path and I started barking loud as I was told to make loud noises. That brat sat down cocked his head in amusement watching me lol. As to narcs and psychopaths. Yes. I married an antisocial who was diagnosed by the court appointed psychologist who gave me 80% custody. My daughter is beyond my wildest dreams. We could parented well. The marriage was not bad. Although I rushed in and his lack of morals bothered me. Sex was routine and not very satisfying but all in all nothing to write home about. But he was a criminal. I believe a money laundere for the mob. The IRS crime unit called me in so I filed for divorce. My best friends father said if you stay with this man they may never catch him but if they do as a lawyer no one will believe you didn’t know and you will lose your freedom, your kids and career. I filed. The divorce was hell but I survived and afterwards we never spoke but raised an amazing kid. Most of my romances that were serious were with empaths and long term and ended over life choices ie I want kids he doesn’t and are friends but I had some flings in my 30 years of dating… a couple of actors that were narcs. No heart aches and both friends as they like lawyers at hand. lol. My current spouse could be BPD as his mother definitely is BOD or a narc but I also recognize all his empathy. He has lots but he has addictions and issues. He quit drinking 8 years ago but turned to pot. His empathy is there but motivation is not.I think he might have CPTSD too or damage from the mother who controls his inheritance and damages him. But. Love and sex off the charts. Common interests and friendship. Check. Loyalty. Check. But we are separated and in counseling now. His mother and his 9 jobs in 10 years are my issues. So? I am fine on my own. A good life. I won’t take him back unless I am confident. We may end. That’s my experiences.
Hi Contagious,
I have lucid dreams and sometimes I can control them, especially in the scary dreams. I find I can control the scary dreams more often, than not. I’m only 18% Contagion, but I do feel a connected to it and use it often as a way to test vibes from people, upon first meeting them and I can also get a feel of a room of people, can feel a fight in the air, change of attitudes from people and I can feel their moods change. I also feel their emotions work through my own nerves and experience them as my own. It’s why I was surprised I wasn’t more than 18% contagion. I’m also 27% Codependent and 55% Standard. My cadres are 50% Savior, 25% Geyser and 25% Carrier. I think my Savior part helped me fight back during my childhood and young adulthood years. It’s definitely the core of who I am and I also feel the most connected to my Codependent side, the two of them are what make me, me. My dark wolf and my light wolf, at odds sometimes, but work in the same person. My contagion works like a foresight of things to come and I warning alarm of danger, either through my vibes from people, environment and things, or through dreams that come as warnings from trusted family members who have passed. I dream often of my maternal grandmother and my dad. They speak to me, but sometimes I don’t understand their words, I just hear their voice and it comforts me. It all sounds nuts to someone who hasn’t experienced it. I am unafraid to share here, my own experiences with how my empath schools and cadres work within me. Xx
I dreamed, that I went to visit the grave of my (real) father and grandmother, but the graves were not there, they were liquidated… My daughter was at home at that time.
When I got in the car to go back (the cemetery is about 60 km from our house), the air attack began. Everyone was running around in panic, dust, blood, bodies, broken roads, I was lost, and in radio was saying: WAR.
Not knowing what happened to my daughter, whether our house is still standing or whether she is alive – blew my mind and my heart was pounding so hard that I woke up.
I had to write it here – I have a theory, that if I tell a dream, it won’t come true.
Hi JOA and Leigh,
I’m writing to both of you about a dream I still remember from childhood, one of about six dreams I can recall with much detail. Leigh, you had good dream analysis, so I wanted your opinion on this too. JOA, you seem to understand more of what’s beneath meanings, so I wanted your opinion too. I was12, when I had this dream, after the incident with my brother, for reference time. I had a dream about my mother. I was calling to her and she kept walking, staying away, she seemed like she didn’t hear me…I heard her crying, she was hurting it seemed to me. I was concerned and worried, so I followed her, calling to her and she still kept going…I ran to catch up and reached out my hand and pulled her around to face me…she had no face, no features at all, like one of those store mannequins….it horrified me, it was grotesque to me, but yet it made me deeply sad and I woke myself up sobbing. It left an impression on me and I never forgot it. I think it was my self conscience trying to tell me my mother wasn’t a mother to me and my life didn’t matter to her, that she was nobody for me to call to. I’m not sure if that was the message or not. Thoughts?? Xx Thank you xx
This isn’t a dream analysis site.
JOA,
I’m sorry I didn’t reply right away to your comment here. I wanted to write you about my dream before going to work and meant to include my comments about your dream.
I usually remember the scary dreams more, they make more of an impression on my mind, maybe you’re the same way. The dream is trying to tell you something, your fears maybe and they’re trying to come forward and to be addressed by you, in a more thoughtful way. Is there a fear you have of losing your daughter? It could be that fear coming forth. I’ve had dreams come true before, but don’t worry, most of the time they were warnings and I took them as such. Your daughter has you protecting her and I sense you’re a good mama bear for her. Xx I discuss my dreams too, bring them out in the open, I can better see them. Xx
Hey guys, HG is right, this isn’t a dream topic site and we should focus back on narcissism. Dream topic is a sphere of its own and I could expand on it forever, but nevertheless I enjoyed reading what you shared and also in combination of knowing your schools and cadres. It made it very interesting.
Last thing I’d mention, the dreaming capacity evolves in combination with what HG describes as ‘reduce your emotional thinking’. The better the ability of managing the emotional thinking and applying of logic in waking life, the better the control and awareness in dreams also (if dreaming happens to be your predilection). It’s a win win🦋
Rebecca: thanks for sharing. Anyone says you are nuts is uneducated on dreams. There is science to back you up but… they know very little. Lucid dreams are experienced by half the population at some point in a persons life. Lucid dreamers like me who are weekly if not nightly are 1%. The science says it’s our subconscious which heals, resolves and is creative in problem solving. No surprise that people like Paul McCartney dream of music, wake up, write it down. Many artists do. I wrote two books from dreams. I solve cases in dreams. I have control but not mastered to controlling speech or talking to my unconscious yet. I see the deceased they and others talk to me. I even got messages last year of someone dying to find out it was true. I have tried to speak to my father but he tells me to go home each time once in a sticky note… he wrote many. May I ask if you did anything to hold conversations and are you able to ask questions? If it is the subconscious, how cool! To be able to talk to your own subconscious! ChatGPT says you can and that it is scientifically possible. You can talk to objects too! Have you? I have not. Yet. I attempt but the dream dissolves or blurs when I try. It’s been awhile but I am mostly carrier contagian and that rings true with a tiny bit of super, geyser, matyr…that’s my recollection. I don’t really relate to the 1% parts of me but the majority I do. Thanks for sharing!
* Am I happiest if I have my own outdoor space where I live? yes.
I agree that knowing without facts to knowing is correct. I don’t understand your rejection to the Tudor scope of being contagion. What doesn’t fit? Just curious and lots of respect. for me it helped, made sense then I met a community which I liked;)
‘Does it mean you never had a narc intimate relationship? If so, maybe picking up vibes must be playing a role in it?’
I haven’t that I’m aware of, J, no, I’ve experienced a sustained devaluation in a relationship. I think I probably pick up some signs of potential problems due to my upbringing – from believing that if something seems too good to be true it probably is. That’d be more related to experience rather than instinct.
Whatever my version of contagion is, I’ve always had it and in exactly the same way. I just see it more clearly now. I do generally remember my dreams. But as to having control of them while in them, it’s only happened once or twice (always related to me wanting to wake up to get out of a situation in the dream) but is far from the norm for me. My dreams are usually just as I hear others experience them – no more special.
I don’t believe I’m not yet in touch with my contagion element. I think I am. But I experience it in a particular way and I don’t think that includes actually picking up someone else’s emotion. That’s why I’m concerned I might be a contagion imposter. I might seem like one or even think I am one when I am not.
I see! Thank you for sharing, AA! I think, because individually we would focus on certain aspects of contagion, the view on what it is and how it manifest would differ, but it must be an individual thing…collecting the bits here and there.
I checked out “What the Super Empath Does” – is also a very interesting read, in comments! https://narcsite.com/2022/05/11/what-the-super-empath-does/
Also, there is a Pingback in all three articles
What the Contagion Empath Does – Dark Triad Personality
What the Super Empath Does – Dark Triad Personality
What the CoDependent Empath Does – Dark Triad Personality
The Dark Triad Personality traits relating to narcissism, psychopathy and machiavellianism? In relation to this three empath’s school? What does it mean? The narc traits in the empath’s school?
________
AA, you wrote: „I also I interpret my dreams in a similar way to you. I think they provide an interesting window into some of my subconscious concerns – things I’m bothered about but am perhaps avoiding dealing with.“
How do you see it in your dreams, interpret it? And what are this things you are bothered with, but avoiding dealing with?
‘How do you see it in your dreams, interpret it? And what are this things you are bothered with, but avoiding dealing with?‘
I’ll give you an example, J, and I know HG appreciates dream talk. I was in a relationship once which I was trying to make work but which had some problems. I was trying not to focus on them thinking if I just tried to be cheerful and positive it’d work itself out. But I had a dream about a young, healthy rose growing in the ground. It had a long stem and beautiful red petals. I put my hand on it instinctively and pulled on it, lifting it out of the ground. The root was long but it was all slimy and rotting. There was no way that rose was going to look good or live much longer. I woke up and knew the dream was showing me that I couldn’t ignore the dead root below the beautiful rose. I knew I had to finish with that relationship.
This is very interesting! To me indeed! What about the thorns? What was it about the person, which trait stood out to you? What was the color of the rose?? Was it day or night? Was the sun shining?
Are flowers or plants often present in your dreams?
The rose was red – totally stereotypical perfect rose. Nothing else was important but the rose, its flower, its stem and its root. Not thorns, not weather, not time. Like the rose the relationship looked good superficially but the foundations were poor. The foundations are what matters.
I see! I understand this hint in your dream and what you saw and how it turned out. There might have been more details to it, which would’ve been interesting…
„The foundations are what matters.“ — Yes, the foundations – the soil, the light, the water, the wind, the area where the plant stand – is what strengthen or weaken the roots. Plants put all their strength together to become their best version, but it’s the quality of the soil and the other details which play a greater role for the roots to turn out healthy. A rose grows as a shrub and not as a single flower. For it to appear as a single, may also be a hint referring to just one person, where roots are not fed properly (in order to become a shrub). And the good looking stem and beautiful red petals show the actual potential of the rose i.e person (either you or the other or both of you)…
Just an example of how dreams can be of further use. There are two parts about the rose dream. 1) Your subconscious formulated a hint for you, about the relationship or about you or the other person. 2) A consciousness of a rose reached out to you, to become your helper in this matter.
How do I explain it best, let’s see… In my world, everything has a consciousness and reaches out for an exchange from time to time, either directly or/and via dreams… Because our daily shields fall away in dreams and we become more open for interactions which are largely ignored in our waking life, such as with plants, trees etc. who have their own consciousness and can use it, also via dreams, and it’s usually us who are blocking this connection by looking down on other life forms; this attitude is largely suspended in dreams and we are more prone to connect more widely… In relation to the rose – you may want to look out for the specific cultivar (red, without thorns), plant it in your garden or a flowerpot, connecting with this little fellow, who has many things to give, to support you… You may want to look up the symbolism of that particular plant, or what it’s used for as medicine and so on. Maybe the mere rose scent is what you need, to energize you. Maybe you need to check your „roots“ and pay some attention to your nourishment, whatever it might be. Or maybe just decide to wear something in that rose-red the next day, which gives you vibrancy. There are various possibilities of what a dream holds for you and what might appeal to you in different areas. Your dream will always connect you to yourself more deeply, helping you in one or multiple ways. The more details you spot, the more you can find out and apply.
I can say that in dreams if I listened I would be better off. First was my dream of a trickster with his snake penis showing sores. I couldn’t catch him. I Found out my then he was cheating. My most rec mr was my dead girlfriend telling me my partner was leaving. He was Stunned and admitted to leaving the next day. Unlike my other dreams where no facts were present, I admit these dreams could have been unconscious facts rising.
Hi annaamel–
Have you considered that instincts might have been present from the beginning and trained to greater skill by experience?
Hi Dani. I would suggest it’s intuition rather than instinct – and I view intuition as picking up very small cues and interpreting them very quickly (and for Contagion, likely feeling those feelings at least on some level). It will feel very correct (even if it isn’t).
There are ways to remember dreams. You can learn to even control them. There are skills you can learn. A new journey?
Dear Dani …I think I understand now why you look out for contagions to find answers about yourself…
When you mentioned the „autistic focus“ I thought of it as an autistic focus being a trait of yours, as people can have autistic traits without being an autist… Now as you mentioned in your answer to Susan that you have autism, I went back on this thread and read past conversations. True! Your mind thinks differently..! My previous answers… yeah, they might rather confuse… Language can be confusing and breaking the parameters of the syntax, I wished I could…
I have a close friend with autism. He is male and a bit different to you, but I see similarities now as to how you both perceive.
Perhaps I’d say — you’re seeking clarity from the contagions vis-à-vis their perception, because the perceptiveness and the sensitivity is the factor, you’re focused on, correct?
I observed in autistics; they can’t lie, act, pretend and can’t usually detect lies or manipulation. But at the same time are sometimes spot on (either intuitively or intellectually) in their connection with others or circumstances. Is this the case? Does intuition or intellect and emotions play a role in how you feel the world? (Or all three?)
And what are the main differences, from your own perspective, in the autist and non autist??
Hi Jordy–
I’m going to respond up here to the posts from the 19th, too.
There are several aspects of the contagion that really have my interest that I identify with. What drew me in to the contagion particularly is similar to what EMC described feeling with everyone, but on a much smaller scale. EMC described feeling everyone’s emotions at the same intensity (or did until learning to block) as I understand it. I have been every bit that sensitive with a much smaller number of people. Some of what Truthseeker shared also very much rings true for me, too. I understand from reading many people’s comments on this thread that some experience it similarly. Some have a completely different experience. I would welcome hearing the experience anyone has. Mr. Tudor gave some hints about other ways that Contagions experience their contagion element.
Perceptiveness, absolutely. There are times when I instinctively sense things that others don’t. There have been a few times in recent years that I’ve encountered people that I’m certain, now, were narcissists. (Some of these people are no longer in my life. They gave me ample evidence.) I have this certainty thanks to Mr. Tudor’s most excellent work. I was certain the moment I met them that they were best avoided. I didn’t have success communicating that there was something wrong with them to others.
There are other bits of what might be contagion (or might be something else). I don’t know for sure. I haven’t heard anyone directly state something close to it.
Autistic people can lie and manipulate with varying degrees of effectiveness. Mr. Tudor has said that autism and narcissism are not mutually exclusive diagnoses, but a diagnosis of autism is something to be considered when evaluating someone as a narcissist. Mr. Tudor hasn’t named any autistic narcissists directly, but Elon Musk has said that he has aspergers (now under the autism umbrella). And Mr. Tudor has indicated that Elon Musk would be an excellent subject for the Tudor Scope.
Sir Anthony Hopkins has stated that he is autistic (aspergers, I believe would have been his diagnosis back in the day) He is an exceptional and accomplished actor. Autistic women are often quite skilled at masking which is its own act in daily life. I haven’t heard many autistic men talk about masking. Masking is a subject of some research right now.
As far as difficulty detecting lies…most research shows that people (in general) are not as good at detecting lies as they think they are. And those in certain professions rate their ‘lie detection’ skills higher than they are. That doesn’t mean there aren’t people who will doggedly seek the truth, but as Mr. Tudor has mentioned a few times…people readily believe what they want to believe.
“And what are the main differences, from your own perspective, in the autist and non autist??” — This is a question that I want to think about a little more before answering.
From the 19th:
You stated down below, “The capacity to absorb is widest…” I’ve been thinking about that as regarding myself for some time…and trying to do so logically.
The story was mostly a way for me to get to the questions I had. I’m curious about the effect of “herd thinking emotions” (if that’s the best way to put it) on a contagion empath who readily and heavily absorbs emotions from those around them…the group being annoyed is not a present situation in my life or the life of anyone I care about (to my knowledge). I have experienced similar situations several times. My responses have differed significantly between them, undoubtedly for many of the reasons that you pointed you.
“it is important to know when to stop and let the not understanding person just be…” — Agreed. It’s something I’m still learning to do.
Dani! Your response is a treat! You have such a talent for this.. thing you do..!
So curious myself now as to how your school and cadre percentage would look like?!
(I’m so tired, will pass out now, but would love come back and ask you some more!)
Dani! I’m awake! HG chose to defeat Thanos…because of The Infinity Gauntlet, correct? Space Stone – Teleport to places instantaneously. Mind Stone – Control minds. Reality Stone – Alter reality. Power Stone – Manipulate energy; increased strength. Time Stone – Control and manipulate time. Soul Stone – Control souls. BUT did you know that another theory proposed, prior to the release of Endgame, that it would involve a seventh Infinity Stone – the Ego Stone. HOW amazing is that! Seven stones..! In the recent tarot analyses video, When HW met HG, there was the card of The Seven of Swords representing HG! But guess what, throughout the blog there were other readers who did tarot readings on HG and they pulled that very same card of The Seven of Swords on HG, years ago. It caught my attention, as I read through the archives, for a reason related to a conspiracy theory about seven priests, who apparently altered mankind’s perception by impacting on how we use our focus and senses. Back then I found the parallel of the Seven of Swords card on HG and the Seven Priests story interesting, because HG educate us about the alternative perception of his kind…It’s fascinating, how this type of things fall together sometimes. It’s all very mysterious, when it comes to HG!
“There are other bits of what might be contagion (or might be something else). I don’t know for sure. I haven’t heard anyone directly state something close to it.“ — What is it??? I’m super curios!
„As far as difficulty detecting lies…“ — Yes. Actually it’s not about the lies, but the focus on the truth. For instance, I find it much more difficult to distinguish a Midrange narcissists because they believe in their fast appearing new reality. Their synapses wandering off randomly as they create new absolute truths. Compared to someone who emanates the truth, either they want it or not, if they are aware of it. I could describe it as seeing an unexpected kind of beast, whose mind is sort of rubik’s cube, turning in different directions. It’s difficult to explain, other than – the attempt to hide the truth exist. And this attempt can be either very obvious or very neat and I think this is what agitate those with high contagion, as they receive the initial true signal no matter what.
„I’m curious about the effect of “herd thinking emotions”… — This is a very interesting curiosity of yours! Group dynamics and configurations are fascinating! This is how our society functions. Groups influencing groups. And within each group there are specific individuals who influence the group within. The rock thrown in to the water which creates ripples, spreading from inner to outer circles, if you will…
Hi Jordy–
H.G. didn’t say why he chose Thanos…but it seems like the Infinity Gauntlet would appeal to H.G.’s lust for power…or perhaps, he enjoys the styling of a particular character within Marvel comics who defeated Thanos in the past with style, (no infinity gauntlet)…That great character is known as “God Emperor Doom.” Picture it, an epic battle in the vastness of space…Thanos prattling on about how he’s all powerful in some universes…God Emperor Doom asks if he has the Infinity Gauntlet…Thanos says he doesn’t need one to defeat God Emperor Doom…then the mad titan’s spine is ripped out by Doom!…and Doom says…”That appears… …untrue.”
It’s quite interesting that multiple people over the years have pulled the Seven of Swords in (likely) independent readings about H.G. It is something of a mystery, as is much about H.G. When I first saw that video title…my initial thought was…”Did HW try to convince H.G. that she’d had a Tarot reading that told her she was going to meet a tall, handsome, blond man?” and I did have a bit of an eyeroll considering that potential scenario occurring…when I think of the story of her going to Harry’s mother’s grave and claiming to commune with Diana’s spirit…it struck me that she might try some similar behavior on H.G. that would have left him even less impressed than it sounds like he was…Looking forward to hearing more of it. Some many questions left to be answered…
What is it??? I’m super curios! — At this time, I’m uncomfortable saying more than that I think it’s an extension of the contagion based around what I’ve heard some others describing contagion working for them.
“Yes. Actually it’s not about the lies, but the focus on the truth. For instance, I find it much more difficult to distinguish a Midrange narcissists because they believe in their fast appearing new reality. Their synapses wandering off randomly as they create new absolute truths…” — Yes, it’s understandable. When someone says something to you where they have complete conviction, it’s easy to think they’re right. If it’s what that person listening to/hearing the person wants to believe, it makes it easier to do so. And if it isn’t…well, attrition can be a real bitch to deal with, regardless of whether the person is normal/narcissistic/narcissist/empath on the warpath…
“I could describe it as seeing an unexpected kind of beast, whose mind is sort of rubik’s cube, turning in different directions.” — That’s a fascinating visualization. I like it.
~In terms of your earlier question about some differences between autistic people and non-autistic~
In terms of your autistic person vs. non-autistic…I’m going to begin with the statement that I am newly (just in the past few years) diagnosed. I don’t want to discuss why that is.
1. I have Interests/likes – In general, when I have a non-autistic friend tell me that they are interested in something/like something, I don’t see the same level of interest as I see in myself (or that I’ve seen in other autistic people). e.g. I have a friend who told me she really liked a song and she listened to it three times in a row before changing songs…if I have a song I like, I listen to it far more than three times in a row. I will listen to it for hours every day for weeks at a time. The same holds true for a movie that has my interest. I will watch to the point of watching little else. The same is true with audiobooks/print books. (This is where interest/like meet stimming.)
2. I also have topics that I have a special interest/hyper-focus on that don’t cross over with stimming, and I will read/research about them extensively, far more than I see other people who are interested. When I start talking about them, I don’t notice when others are bored, and sometimes it’s difficult to break the train of thought. I see the same hyper-interest in other autistic people more than I see it in non-autistic people. It can be any topic.
3. I tend to take things more literally than non-autistic friends. I don’t always catch dry sarcasm or rhetorical questions.
4. I stim in a variety of ways, almost constantly. Some stims are obvious and others less so. I try to keep them less obvious, particularly around people that I am not as comfortable with. Non-autistic people stem too, say drumming their fingers, but not at the frequency that I see in autistic people.
5. I have difficulty turning off external stimuli, and I get over stimulated. If music is playing too loudly in a store, if there are too many people around having separate conversations, if lights are too bright, I have difficulty focusing on other things. (Not all autistic people are sensitive this way…some are sensory seekers rather than being sensory avoidant.)
Those are things that readily spring to mind.
Dear Dani, thank you! Very interesting and different!
Do you (and individuals with autism) experience strong emotional attachments to people also via special interest/hyper-focus or is it a moderate emotion and interest and the fascination comes from somewhat a different angle or place? Do you react strongly for romantic love stories or do you experience the over the top emotionality as too much or overloaded with projection and/or fantasy? Or is it something you can get lost in, akin to the sensory sensation?
As to God Emperor Doom – I of course checked on Victor von Doom😋 Yep, I see what you discovered there! So close to HG, isn’t it?!
Doom’s most dangerous weapon is his intellect…He is vastly skilled in many combat techniques, both armed and unarmed… Doom has trained his body to the level of the finest human athlete. He is well-built, fast and agile…Indomitable Will: Doom has phenomenal determination, fearlessness, and strength of will. Indeed, he has the strongest will on Earth… Doom’s willpower could be considered even godly as, after having stolen the Beyonders’ omnipotent abilities for himself, he was capable of creating an entire new planet from the remnants of incursion points between collapsing worlds, that new planet was Battleworld. He held this world together with his will…Highly Influential Connections: As Monarch of Latveria, Doctor Doom has access to technological and military hardware… Charismatic leader: Doom is able to attract people’s positive attraction… Doom is also a skilled politician and strategist and has occasionally been the leader of numerous teams… Artist: Doom has shown himself to be a talented artist… Pianist: Doom has shown himself to be a talented pianist. He has played various compositions of his own creation… Master Swordsman: Doom has been shown being proficient in sword combat, having been trained by the best teachers – until he overcame them all… He is highly proficient in the use of weapons, mostly those of his own creation… Multilingual: He speaks all languages spoken in Latveria, those being Latverian, German, Hungarian, and Romany and possibly several others…Doom states that his self-awareness began when he was within his mother’s womb. Doom theorized that his mother’s contact with demons is what made this possible, further stating that their “… touch opened [his] mind too clearly and too early“… Latveria has its own version of The Beatles’ song All You Need Is Love, which replaces “love” for „Doom.“… Doom believes that Mutants are not the next step in humanity’s evolution, but instead serve to force the humans to evolve…
Hi Dani,
I hope you don’t mind my comments here. I’m a very sensitive person to stimuli too and I tend to fidget when I feel anxious. I’ll click a pen, wiggle my foot, pace, play with my hair or my bracelets. I’ve been tested for ADHD, ADD and autism. I was found not to have any of them, but I do have a trait of OCD, where I tend to overfocus on things when they bother me. It’s like an urge to fix the issue and I don’t let it go, until I fix it or solve it. I do have CPTSD from being raised by a narcissist mother. She came out to be LMRVICTIM from her ND.
I just have 18% Contagion, but it’s strong with me, even if it’s just 18%. The lucid dreams, being able to control my dreams, the premonitions, and sensing vibes and feeling emotions from people. For the longest time I didn’t understand how I did that and I’m so grateful to understand now. I’m so grateful of HG and his work, the people here who have helped me too. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
“I hope you don’t mind my comments here.” – I don’t mind. I like reading what others have to say.
“I’m a very sensitive person to stimuli too and I tend to fidget when I feel anxious. I’ll click a pen, wiggle my foot, pace, play with my hair or my bracelets. I’ve been tested for ADHD, ADD and autism. I was found not to have any of them, but I do have a trait of OCD, where I tend to overfocus on things when they bother me. It’s like an urge to fix the issue and I don’t let it go, until I fix it or solve it. I do have CPTSD from being raised by a narcissist mother. She came out to be LMRVICTIM from her ND.” — There is a great deal of crossover between a number of different disorders. I think getting diagnosed with one of them really has more to do with meeting a minimum number of criterion. I can understand holding on and not letting go until the issue is solved. I do the same thing, and it gives me trouble…
“I just have 18% Contagion, but it’s strong with me, even if it’s just 18%.” — Do you feel your other schools just as strongly?
“The lucid dreams, being able to control my dreams, the premonitions, and sensing vibes and feeling emotions from people.” Is it all people? Is there a proximity you must be in to utilize this ability? Is it easier with those that you are close to or easier with those who are more distant?
“I’m so grateful of HG and his work, the people here who have helped me too.” — Me too. Really glad that I clicked the first video of his that I did…and then the second…then the third.
Hi Dani,
Yes, I feel my Savior Cadre and my Codependent School more than the other 2 of my Cadres and my other two of Schools. I called them my Dark Wolf and my White wolf. The dark wolf is my Savior Cadre 50% and my white wolf is my Codependent School 27%.
It’s easier for me to get emotions and vibes from people physically close to me, but I have felt vibes through the phone and I even felt when my brother died and he was in the next town from me. It was my attachment, my bond with him that made that possible, I think…It doesn’t happen to me every day, hence why I think I’m 18% Contagion and not more, but when I do get feelings and vibes, it’s strong and very much a warning alarm for me. My premonitions work the same way, as warnings and strong, and not often. Xx
Dani,
I also seek stimuli, I hate being bored, I must have something to occupy my mind and body. I do things to self sooth like, I hum to myself, pace , things I mentioned before and I also , and this is embarrassing….I rock a little from foot to foot, not lifting my feet, just moving my legs, leaning to right to left, left to right.. I catch myself and I get embarrassed by it. I didn’t get soothed by my mother, so I learned to sooth myself.
Dani,
I meant to add that I also can be overestimated by negative emotions, like anxiety from my best friend’s ADHD daughter. When she starts feeling really anxious, it makes me feel really anxious and I have to get outside and breathe. I often wonder why I can seek stimuli and then get too much of it other times?? Would love that answer,if anyone knows?? Xx
Hi Rebecca, for me when I’m seeing simulation, I have come to see it as part of my addiction and that something is of kilter in me causing me to feel “boredom” which then makes me feel it out. When everything is in line, my empathy is not eroded, my ET is low, I’m just living my life basically narc-free, I am very contented and do not feel the need for simulation, don’t even want it as it will interfere with my contentedness. When I’m out of sorts for any reason, I can find myself seeking it and then getting overwhelmed by it which exacerbates the problem and escalates everything, is a vicious cycle. I don’t like this at all so really work at keeping my empathy intact and my ET low. Those are my thoughts about it, you may find something different for yourself of course and I’d love to hear it is you do!
Hi AV,
I’m thinking on what you said about it being linked to my addiction and I think you’re right. Whenever I feel the need for stimuli, I go for a run usually, get out in nature, or distract myself coming here, reading, responding, jumping in a live chat etc. I distract myself, but I manage to feel stimulated without it being bad for me. I no longer have the urge to reach out for LMRSOMATIC, I’ve disconnected myself from him, same for MLSOMATIC, I’m emotionally detached from him, eventhough I still live with him. My heart isn’t his anymore and neither am I. In my mind, I’ve taken my leash from him. He doesn’t have power over me, neither one of them do. I’m emotionally free of them both, the physical freedom is short to come. Xx
Hi AV,
Thanks for giving me some answers. It helps a lot. Xx
Hi Rebecca–
So when you say that you seek stimuli, are you saying you go seeking others’ emotions to feel? Or do you seek out other forms of stimulation, like going to a concert or amusement part? (You would certainly encounter plenty of emotions in either of those places, but is it about seeking the emotions of others or about the adrenaline rush and physical sensations of roller coasters or seeing a performer you like?)
What have you noticed about what you’re feeling before you go into those situations where you’ve become overstimulated by someone else’s emotions?
Hi Dani,
I seek out stimuli, meaning I go do something like go to the park, work on a project etc, doesn’t have to people around. I’m just bored and looking for something to do and it doesn’t involve hurting someone and usually it’s alone time for me, some connection to nature. I feel bored, before I seek stimuli. When I feel overstimulated, is when I’m around my best friend’s daughter, her anxious ADHD energy is too much for me, if around her too long. I feel her anxiety and that makes me feel very anxious. I think negative emotion gets to be too much for me. It’s very overwhelming.
Rebecca, I had another thought while rereading our comments just now, first let me apologize for my phone’s autocorrect typos. I did mean to say seeking stimulation in my earlier comment. Anyway, my daughter who is majority CoD needs more stimulation than I do, so does my oldest daughter who is currently married to a narcissist. I think that daughter also has CoD, though she had not done the EDC. Something in one of your comments made me wonder if this need for simulation is higher in Empaths with CoD? Do you think so?
Hi AV,
No worries about the typos, autocorrect does the same to me. Xx
I think you have the right thought on the connection there. Needing stimuli probably does have a connection to my codependent part of me. It makes sense to me. Xx
Dani: it’s interesting as my friends teen daughter is autistic and lots of disputes with her mother who is my best friend who I guess is normal from 30 years of knowing her. She has been in and out of hospitals and centers for cutting, suicide, depression , physically abusing her mother but her mom stuck in there and she has got DBT and proper meds ( God the process to figure it out is hard), every test under the sun from MRIs etc… she has a job, a boyfriend now from her special needs school, and graduated. I am so proud of her but my friend had fought for her for 5 years. Really from birth. But… she likes to come here to my home. My empathy or home gives her calm she says. I find her a neuro norm here. I find her to be like every teen and beautiful inside and out. I find her emphatic. A sensitive soul who bonds with me. She feels we are alike. We always bonded even when a little girl. I love this girl. I want to see her succeed in life! But what could cause a girl on the spectrum to have such a special bond with an empath? I am contagian? Can I do more? May I say or add that social media has harmed our youth and especially neuro different through unrealistic ideals and bullying to those on the spectrum! Sucks!!!! Also her violent cruel treatment could be ignorantly applied to her as narcisstic or psychopath versus someone with problems as a teen with ASD. Glad the professionals didn’t go there;) She had come so far where others in other states in America without help don’t! Angers me!!!!
Contagious, in my view, it’s simple to understand – as an outsider, looking at what you say here. The autistic child experienced a lot of varying treatments for her difficulties with her parent as the ‘connector’ to the overall experiences for the girl. A young autistic will not necessarily view it (understand to the degree) that her parent was trying to be the ‘rescuer’, the girl’s ‘reactions’ are more likely to be instinctive rather than cognitively. Maybe later in life, she will understand what her parent did for her. The emotional connection would be reduced because of the girl’s traumas of the treatments – over a period of a number of years, that takes it toll. When she is with you, it’s peaceful, no treatment time / experiences / no reminders = no connection, therefore no emotional / mental apprehensions. The girl can relax in your home too, for the same reasons. She sees you as a nurturer and maybe can sense that in you. It’s good she has you. It was good to read what you say.
Hi Contagious–
I think AspEmp has the right of it.
I’d like to add that from what I’ve read from various autistic authors discussing their experience with “treatment”…they state that ‘treatments’ are found more effective and pleasing by parents/caregivers/etc than they are by patients.
From personal experience working with autistic children in a professional capacity, I heard them make statements about ‘treatment’ they were receiving from a local place that I found disturbing, and I believe they were accurately relaying information.
From my very general level of research…it seems there are multiple reasons why this is the state of medical treatment for autistic people.
I’m not an expert, and I wasn’t diagnosed till adulthood.
As far as, is there more you can do?
I think you’re doing the best things you can. You show her that she is loved and appreciated. You show her that she is accepted. That’s the best thing that you can do for her.
My best friend has a ASP daughter and we just get each other her. She feels very comfortable with me. I don’t know if it’s a contagion trait or not but I just see her as she is a beautiful young lady. Sure she is different but no more than I see anyone or anything as different in nature. As I told her a flower just blooms, it does not look at the o her flowers. True
I didn’t mean that to sound so much like coercion. Instinctive manipulative tendency, clearly. I realise my personal anecdotes are neither here nor there.
HG, could I ask that you consider starting a new Contagion thread? Just to have a fresh canvas for comments. This comment section has become difficult to navigate. I sometimes consider talking about my experience of contagion which seems so different to others I occasionally wonder if I’ve been mis-classified because I answered questions too hastily or inaccurately (I have no lucid dreams, no premonitions – I don’t even think I actually pick up others’ emotions). If you start it I’ll describe what I experience and then if you think I am not actually a contagion empath you can let me know.
Hi Annamel,
I think different people experience Contagion empathy differently. If Contagion is the lead school the instances of Contagion experience will be higher than if Contagion is a significant or insignificant minority element.
I also think it depends where Contagion sits within your other schools and even where it sits within your own mix of character traits.
For example, I would describe myself as cynical. So, if I experience a vivid dream, it’s highly unlikely I’m going to view it as having any prophetic significance. Its also unlikely that I’ll register or even remember the information for any length of time.
I do remember my more unusual dreams occasionally. I view them more as my subconscious linking information together and presenting me with a concept or suggestion, rather than as anything prophetic.
That’s not to say I don’t believe the accounts of others, simply that I don’t relate personally to that aspect of Contagion.
There are other elements of Contagion empathy that I do relate to, that do make sense to me and that do very much highlight the Contagion school being present in my overall empathic make up. I think also that we assume others experience life in the similar way that we do, notice things that we do, or pick up on things that we do until we find that actually they don’t! You likely attribute certain quirks as being ‘normal’ because you are used to them when in actual fact they might well be elements of Contagion.
Overall, it’s likely that the EDC is correct and you simply experience your Contagion element in a way that makes sense to you personally. I don’t think there is a right way or a wrong way, just your own way 🙂
Xx
My comment to j should have read ‘I’ve never experienced a sustained devaluation in a relationship.’
——————————
TS,
I don’t understand how there would or could be different types of contagion. But I can certainly appreciate there’s different ways of interpreting contagion, at least partly depending on general outlook. Like you I am fairly sceptical by nature. And I interpret contagion using that perspective. I also I interpret my dreams in a similar way to you. I think they provide an interesting window into some of my subconscious concerns – things I’m bothered about but am perhaps avoiding dealing with.
My understanding is that a contagion picks up the feelings of another and they feel those feelings too. If someone is sad, I should pick it up and actually feel that sadness. That’s what I don’t think I do. I don’t think I can do that. To me it seems impossible to to that – like some kind of psychic ability. I don’t think I have that at all.
Every living creature dreams. Most people have lucid dreams. The frequency etc… seems to be a contagian trait. For me, it definitely is. I just met a woman who does classes on lucid dreams where you can learn to go back to them. You learn how to control them, you can even learn how to talk to others or things in the dream. All dreams are unique to the individual. I have recently watched a show on twins where twins separated at birth and found to be wearing the same outfit, same glasses, same shoes, even married a woman with same name. I ordered the book as there is a lot more information. The show stated it fit with quantum physics theory on time and a theory of connectivity. I will give an example : when I was as pregnant for 4 months I didn’t know it but I kept dreaming of marlon Brando. Not sexy young marlon Brando but old fat Marlon. I was sitting on his lap at the beach and holding his hand. It was so repetitive that I told my friends ( people in my inner circle since childhood know I have weird dreams). I joked I had a grandpa complex. When I gave birth my son was 7.5 weeks early. It was terrifying but he was a healthy almost 6 pound boy. He went home with me. About a week after being an exercise nut then at 30, I got on my treadmill. I picked up magazines. The first I picked said “ happy birthday Marlon!” My son was born in his birthday. Another example I wrote about involved my best friend from law school who was killed at 40. The short version in in part of my dream I saw watches and clocks that said 2:17. Well at trial the LA coroner said she died between 2 am and 2:30 am. I could go on. I have dreams where a friend tells me they need help. And find out their mother died. I am told not to start with the murder dream but to try to go back into a dream and communicate with those in it. It can be learned. It’s your subconscious. Unique to you. It sounds exciting but I am doubtful. Will try. I don’t know if every contagian has weird dream experiences only a small percent do. I read a book a couple years called sleep and it said lucid dreams was an evolutionary thing whatever that means. I saw a YouTube show where some guy said he could predict silver stock fluctuations to make money. I have been told it’s not true. So much is unknown about dreams. But every living thing dreams.
Maybe you have lucid dreams, but don’t remember them. Do you remember your normal dreams? Lucid or normal, it can be both…not to mention „dreaming awake“, but ok…don’t get me started.. Dreaming, it’s just a predilection which some people have. Narcs can be awesome dreamers btw., it’s not just a prerogative of a contagion.
Please do talk about your experience of contagion! There must be many variations of a contagion empath. Also it is something that can develop gradually over time or over night.
RE: „Picking up others’ emotions“ — You mentioned „I consider myself an outlier on this blog, not because I haven’t experienced abuse…“ Does it mean you never had a narc intimate relationship? If so, maybe picking up vibes must be playing a role in it?
Hi Annaamel!
I would enjoy reading any experiences you interpret as relating to your contagion. I agree with what Truthseeker said, “I think also that we assume others experience life in the similar way that we do, notice things that we do, or pick up on things that we do until we find that actually they don’t!” and “I don’t think there is a right way or a wrong way, just your own way”
I identify with things that Truthseeker has said regarding how contagion is present for them, and I relate in another way to bits of what Contagious has said and EMC too.
H.G. spoke in the Guru Narcissist videos from a few weeks ago about contagion. He mentioned other bits about them and why they appeal to the Guru Narcissist. I don’t know if you relate to any of those.
Also, you followed the empath detector directions, by answering quickly and not overthinking. I think your results are right. But you can always look at your answers on it again and see if you would change any answers. Mr. Tudor has said that people’s results don’t vary much over time (maybe a few percentage points). That’s my understanding. MilkweedMonarchButterfly asked a question like that here, https://narcsite.com/2023/03/26/knowing-the-narcissist-the-empathic-supernova/ and I’ve seen and heard similar questions asked elsewhere.
Please don’t hold back sharing because you don’t personally relate to what others are saying. From what I’ve seen here, people are quite supportive for people they’ve never met in real life, whether they personally relate to specific experiences or not.
Do what’s right for you, and whenever you’re ready to share, I think you’ll find supportive readers and responses.
Hi Dani. Thank you. I can see how narcissist gurus and contagion empaths could be drawn towards each other. I don’t fear judgement here.
Hi Annaamel, a question a bit off topic, have you done the Trait Detector Consult? That may be speaking into how you experience Contagion.
I did not come out with Contagion on my EDC but I do have some of the experiences Contagions mention. We are all unique in our makeup and our traits and our Schools and Cadres all go hand in hand in creating our uniqueness, along with other factors of course. Just a thought.
‘Also, you followed the empath detector directions, by answering quickly and not overthinking. I think your results are right. But you can always look at your answers on it again and see if you would change any answers.’
Good suggestion, Dani. I did this. For the questions which seem to be checking for contagion, my answers are not incorrect, so I guess I do qualify per HG’s classifications. But in no response did I say anything like ‘I absorb others’ emotions’ or ‘I have premonitions’ or ‘I have lucid dreams’ or anything like that, so it would seem it’s possible to be a contagion empath without those characteristics/abilities. It is about something else.
Glad it helped, Annaamel. Hopefully, Mr. Tudor will give us some answers soon. I’m looking forward to learning more.
Not much on contagion at all
HI Jordy–
“Why are you feeling responsible for this person or your coworkers feelings?”
I’m a little confused by this. The scenario I gave is one I thought would be common enough to many people, and I was having trouble coming up with the exact questions I was trying to ask without giving a scenario…
“If the person is whining and complaining, or display negativity in general, without changing the behavior, there is no point addressing it anymore, because the person don’t have the capacity to change.”
I think people have different styles of communicating. I think those come from culture, neurology, and other factors at varying degrees. I’ve seen some studies (from a while back now) that showed if people are playing ‘telephone,’ the message gets passed on in groups of those who share similar neurologies better than in groups of mixed neurologies. Autistic people play the game better with autistics. Non-autistics play better with non-autistics. So, to my thinking, for the above scenario, assume the gloomy person needs more direct communication…but direct communication is not the style of most people in that office/culture/etc. It doesn’t make anyone a bad person for not understanding. They keep trying to communicate politely (as they would see politeness) and failing.
To my thinking, it’s no different than someone from Latvia (non-English speaker) being arrested in England while on holiday, but no translator is provided to them so they know what’s going on when they’re taken to the courtroom.
I agree with you that there are a great many factors to consider, any psychological problems they may have, whether they are experiencing emotional thinking, etc.
“And what is the best version of help, for what type of person?” That’s an excellent question.
Dani, is this person an empath? (School, cadre, by chance?) And what kind are the other people in this scenario?
The capacity to absorb, being influenced by the emotional ride of the surroundings and people – is the widest in the contagion empathy, to my understanding. If Super or Standard is also present, the empath may draw a line sooner and stop merging with feelings of others and retreat. However, if Carrier/Saviour/Martyr is highly present, the empath may stick around for a long time and try to solve situations, feelings, problems, which are not hers/his. Wanting to help by taking the responsibility for how others feel, in a not healthy manner. I think the cadre(s) of the empath plays a significant role when it comes to the behavior.
„Autistic…Non-autistic…assume the gloomy person needs more direct communication…but direct communication is not the style of most people in that office/culture/etc. It doesn’t make anyone a bad person for not understanding. They keep trying to communicate politely (as they would see politeness) and failing.“
Autistic or non-autistic doesn’t make the formed ego i.e. the psychological makeup of the person less or more, good or bad, it’s just what it is – a solid structure of traits, beliefs, patterns, triggers. The ego of the person and other people will react and communicate either from a more aware or unaware position, viewing the world through the lens of the internal setup; meeting challenges the person is confronted with – in this case either being not understood by others or others failing in their communication. Thus periodically engaging in negativity and stress. (Also, the reason for this could be a physical issue, medication, illness of organs etc. which may impact on the mood.)
Compassionate, respectful, honest, direct and polite communication should actually work with most people, friends or colleagues. How the other person listen to it, understand it, react to it, is in the hands of the conditioning (culture, neurology, physical condition, narc, empath, school and cadre) logic and heightened or lowered emotional thinking.
And when it comes to the person who is repeatedly addressing the issue – it is important to know when to stop and let the not understanding person just be…Perhaps the person feels pressure from the surroundings and is having a hard time, because there is the demand on this person to understand, what this person can’t or don’t want, or don’t need to understand, in the way others do…What this person may need is; give her/him the freedom to not understand. There is no absolute law on how to understand things and everyone is free and valid in that sense. Sometimes, the moment of giving up is better at solving issues. The pressure dissolves and the other person may find support simply in that. It reliefs the stress, she or he is subjected to in their spinning thoughts, which focus on negativity, due to outside pressure.
Can you identify the narc(s) in this group dynamic? Because the narc will be fucking around with minds of everyone in this group. Including setting up the group against one person or the other way around – being one against all. As for instance, HG explained in the Taylor Swift analyses, where her behavior was recognised by her peers in school and she was set apart and not liked by others.
People will be wasting time and energy in trying to find a solution in accordance to narc vision, who is not interested in benefiting solutions for group dynamics, but want to obtain control in every situation of the day.
Is the narcissistic manner present in the person or the group? Benign, malign? Angel narc? Martyr narc? Victim? Pity play? Complaining? Aggression? Blame? How often repeated throughout the time?
What are the words, which are used in this communications by the person and the group?
Since we’re a little off topic anyway…look what i found earlier. ‘Dimitri the stud’. Try not to laugh or be amazed!
vandenboss,
This is funny! I was laughing from the point near the start where he says he gets approached by six or seven women each day.
There are definitely some big red flags in what he says. They just met in person for two minutes and in a voicemail he says, “…so here’s how it’s gonna work” … haha
I wonder if Olga played his messages back to her friends for a laugh.
‘Since we’re a little off topic anyway…’
‘look what i found earlier. ‘Dimitri the stud’.’
He, it, is just awful. He’d have to be one of the more obvious cases, and I know he’s still around, still driven to satisfy those prime aims.
In this example he seems to have recognised the loss of control and is working madly to reinstate it, unaware that his methods are terrible.
Run!
Hello All,
I’m curious if this sounds familiar to those who are contagion majority or have the contagion element. (I think some of the questions may have more to do with cadre…I wasn’t completely certain…but I think the core of it has to do with the contagion element…)
Say you work with someone who is naturally negative, not in the sense of blaming others for their problems or having a constant victim mentality, but more in the sense of they see things in a more negative light. They have many other good qualities, being a good listener, quick and eager to help, etc. That tendency to see life events through a lens of negativity frustrates this person’s co-workers. Co-workers begin expressing their weariness and irritation with this particular quality to the point of missing the good that is present. They don’t tell this person (so far as you hear from them or that person); they express their feelings you.
1. Do you find yourself feeling more weariness and irritation with that person in particular?
2. Do you find yourself more trying to help that person not so frequently express their frustrations?
3. Do you find yourself expressing irritation and weariness to people around you?
4. Do you find it more difficult to see this person’s good qualities?
5. If the people who are the most vocal in expressing displeasure with this person’s behavior move on to other jobs, what happens then?
Hello Dani. Why do you believe this would feel familiar to,Contagion empaths?
Hi Annaamel–
Thank you for responding.
How I understand the contagion school for some, is that it is a layering of emotion. They feel intensely what those around them feel. So they would feel all the gloominess of the person who overshares negative happenings of their life…then there is the frustration of other co-workers also being layered on top of that that is directed at the oversharer of negativity. It would be happening at a certain frequency for 40 hours each week and from multiple people…
I guess part of what I’m asking is…how does absorbing negative emotion from a number of others that revolves around one person affect you, if at all?
I understand. I wonder if it might be related to empathic traits and how these are experienced. It could be connected to whether an empath is high in listening and caring and compassion as that would make them more likely to tune into those feelings. It could also maybe be affected by whether they have significant carrier in their cadres (and I know you mentioned this possibility). Or it might be connected to co-dependency in schools and perhaps wanting to ensure everyone else is content and there is harmony. I say this because I have quite high contagion but I would not likely be affected in this situation at all. I may experience contagion in a different way but I also am not the type to take on anyone else’s distress especially if it’s just negativity or frustration. I am not that compassionate or caring either. And don’t feel a need to take active steps to ensure everyone’s comfort. I have carrier but it needs to be activated by a belief it’s necessary.
Is this a situation you find yourself in Dani? Also, if so, have you completed an ED or TD to know some of your schools, cadres or traits?
Hi Annaamel–
Apologies for the slow response. I just saw this today.
Hadn’t thought of the co-dependent angle or the different traits. It makes sense to me.
“I say this because I have quite high contagion but I would not likely be affected in this situation at all. I may experience contagion in a different way.” — How do you think you experience your contagion? Super curious if you don’t mind sharing.
“And don’t feel a need to take active steps to ensure everyone’s comfort. I have carrier but it needs to be activated by a belief it’s necessary.” — What are you cadres (and percentages) if you don’t mind sharing? What types past events have activated your carrier?
I have not completed an ED or a TD.
Dani I came up as (from memory) 49% contagion and I have been trying to nail down how (and whether) I experience it (and what it actually is) and will get back to you on that. My cadres came up in almost a three way split – with saviour, magnet and carrier. I’ll take on a load but I usually have to really believe it’s necessary, like if I don’t, something important that needs to be done won’t get done. It’s as if I wait to see who else will take the responsibility on first.
Checking my ED, I am no 49% Contagion, I am 40%. However, I’d say that my Contagion is always running in the background. I don’t consider myself ‘less’ Contagion because I don’t have lucid dreams, or premonitions. I think I am lower scored for contagion because my other school takes over. But it’s all a very interesting conversation to have – for me anyway 🙂
Hi Dani,
1. No, how co-workers feel about the person wouldn’t change how I feel about them.
2. I wouldn’t try to keep them from expressing their frustrations as frequently, because I feel that’s invalidating. I usually try to lead by example in showing a different way of seeing things/behaving.
3. On the contrary, I would probably find myself trying to balance out all the irritation and weariness by expressing the opposite. (Up to a certain point.)
4. No, but I may not want to spend time around them despite their good qualities.
5. Could you elaborate on what you mean by “what happens then?”
In this situation in general, I’d be uncomfortable with all the talking about and around the issue instead of directly addressing it and finding solutions, because I’d be picking up on everyones frustration and what is unsaid.
Hello Victorious,
Thank you for answering!
Regarding your answer to 2. Do you think it is worse to make someone feel invalidated for a few minutes by directly telling them that their behavior is crossing boundaries for what is acceptable work conversation or for them to find out in a “surprise” moment later just how irritating numerous people find the behavior and no one bothered to tell them?
3. Where does that certain point end?
For “what happens then”…
Assume that you’re in this situation 40-45 hours per week for months. (Hearing and absorbing the negativity from the person who simply sees life through a more negative lens and the frustration with that behavior from others)
Assume that trying to help this person see that some things could be seen a bit more positively than they tend to is a complete failure. They don’t pick up on subtlety. They need someone to be more direct in communication, but people are unwilling to be so…likely because they think it would be rude.
Assume that you offer solutions, but your coworkers don’t really want to solve the problem and reject solutions offered. (From what I’ve seen, many people find confrontation like this to be uncomfortable/difficult/unbearable).
If the people who primarily express their frustration depart, for one reason or another…Maybe they retire. Maybe they find a different job…To my thinking, that removes one frequent external stress. (The same result could be achieved if the person who frustrates the others departs, too.)
What happens after a large amount of negativity/source of frustration removes itself from the workplace? How does it change, if at all, work relationships or friendships?
Assuming that it was the multiple people who expressed frustration with the one coworker who departed, how do you find yourself feeling about that behavior so many people found problematic?
Maybe this is more a carrier cadre question…looking forward to hearing thoughts.
Those who remain will just find someone else to bitch about.
Dani, the person you describe, sounds either like someone in a constant distress (and self-victimization, regardless of being a narc, empath or normal). OR the person could be a narcissist of victim mentality school (lesser or midrange), who annoys coworkers and derive negative fuel from them, in an instinctive manner. Having a negative, worrying, complaining or angry outlook on things and situations, is victimization of circumstances and oneself – helpless to change anything, thus worrying, complaining, blaming or feel sorry for poor little helpless others (seeing oneself in others, subconsciously), or getting angry, or displaying awful scenarios, or negative real life events, where everyone or the majority are either victims or perpetrators. A narc, naturally, would derive fuel upon your reactions to negative things displayed to you in conversation or situations you’ll be confronted with…
Does this person seek advise from you or others? And does this person TAKE IT, after you offer it? If NO, why continue bothering? You can offer advise, but you can’t force the person to take it.!
If the person is whining and complaining, or display negativity in general, without changing the behavior, there is no point addressing it anymore, because the person don’t have the capacity to change. If the person take your advise and is able to understand and change what is asked of them, then it’s a different story. Also keep in mind, a narc may appear to take advise as a form of manipulation..
This person, if empath or normal, might have a psychological issue or other personal stuff going on. Many factors must be considered… But before you continue, you better determine if this person is a narc? If yes, there is nothing you can do and you might need to search through the KV for -how to deal with narcs at work- material. If the person is not a narc, there is something of little help you can offer via logic rather…The question for you is also: Why are you feeling responsible for this person or your coworkers feelings? And what is the best version of help, for what type of person?
As far as groups of people are involved, it only increase the psychological brew. Who is who in this group, narc, empath, normal and what are the aims in this constellations…
Hi Dani,
Honestly, I would just ask the people who had the complaints to communicate them directly to that person themselves, unless I was in a position of power over them and it was my responsibility to do so.
In regards to 3, I think that certain point comes when it’s sustained and I’m surrounded by negative emotions day in and day out. I eventually get to a point where I either lose my shit or have to basically get away–like fight or flight.
Assuming all of those events were to take place, I would of course feel relieved when I’m around less of the negative energy but I’m not sure it would affect my relationships with other people.
I think this example is tricky because a person having a negative outlook/lens isn’t necessarily a feeling, so I’m not sure I would absorb it. I would just encourage direct communication and if others don’t agree then that’s their prerogative, but don’t then complain to me about problems you don’t want to solve. On that note, I agree with some other replies that the person(s) in this situation could very well be narcissist(s).
I could see how Carrier could apply here, but also picking up on some codependency. I could be totally wrong, but wanted to share in case anyone else agrees.
Thank you, Victorious.
Where are you seeing the co-dependency?
Hi Dani,
I find number 3 is what I do, I tend to absorb and catch feelings of those around me. If someone is angry, I’ll absorb and reflect their anger. That’s me, don’t know about others, who may have more Contagion than me. I have 18% Contagion.
Rebecca,
You said you absorb and reflect their feelings–do you also act based on the feelings? I can feel their anger but it doesn’t make me act out of character. For example, if somebody is angry then I can feel their anger but I don’t become angry towards them for no reason. Now you’ve got me wondering if I’m not a majority contagion haha
Hi Victorious,
Sorry I didn’t get notified of your response to my comment. I don’t lash out at anyone, when I feel someone else’s anger. I feel angry, but know it’s not my anger because I have no reason to be angry at that time and I usually figure out who it is that I’m absorbing their feelings from.
Do you get premonitions?? I get them from time to time, just a strong feeling I get about something soon to happen, or will happen in the near future. I thought it was all bullshit, until I got a premonition about my dad. My dad’s sister said, she gets them too. It all sounds so surreal, but it’s just another aspect of being an empath and being in touch with vibes and energies around us. Fine tuning those instincts for dangers around us, helped us survive a dangerous environment we grew up in….most empaths survived an abusive childhood environment. If I didn’t experience it myself, I wouldn’t believe it.
Hi Rebecca,
Thank you for clarifying, I can relate to being able to know that it’s not my anger despite feeling it.
I do occasionally get premonitions but I’ve always written them off as coincidence because I also sometimes have a “gut feeling” about something and turn out to be very wrong. Another example is that I sometimes dream about things before they happen, but then I think about all the other dreams I’ve had that aren’t the case. Maybe I’ve just been gaslighting myself!
Do we have any info from HG on what sort of childhood environment makes one a contagion empath in particular? I’ve looked around and haven’t found anything.
Is it the same with positive emotions?
Hi Dani,
Yes, I react the same to positive emotions too. I absorb and reflect, but I’m more comfortable being happy around people, so it’s not so bad feeling happiness from someone else. I like the warm glow feeling in my chest and it makes me bubbly and talkative, and laugh more. 😁
Sorry Dani, meant to also answer the other questions. 1. No, I woukdnt 2. No, I wouldn’t 3. Is the one I’d do, answered previously on other comment. 4. No 5. Not sure of the question on that one.
Hello, Rebecca,
I think I got 5 all worked out above.
Hello Dani! I think this could apply to negative people in general. I find myself first trying to change the direction of the entire mood. If one on one, I would ask a question like “ what did you like…?” Then if a positive response reinforce it. I also would throw in humor as negativity is like a storm cloud that needs a break. Finally if a group… I would say something positive and affirming which would piss him or her off but so be it or make a joke with the same result. In the end, I would avoid that person, focus on the work and try to brighten everyone’s day outside the Debbie downer to create a better environment. Does negative energy affect me in a workplace… not if I take these steps. Does negative energy overall affect me? Of course, the world is a stressful place and I find nature the most healing. Music. The arts. Those I love. Yoga. There are many ways to repel it. The type of energy that drains is helping someone in pain with loss or grief or illness. I am contagian but a carrier and a martyr too. I often take on someone in needs problems and you must be careful as that can drain. He person you describe just sounds like pessimistic cynical ass. Self absorbed. Ignorant. Dull.
Hello Contagious!
Thank you for responding.
Is there any particular energy that really peps you up?
Hi Dani! Yes! When something good happens to someone I love, I can’t stop smiling!
HG,
Is it possible for the results of the empath detector to change with time? I know the narcissist doesn’t change schools, but curious if the same thing applies to empaths. I was thinking about how high my emotional thinking was when I initially took it, and whether that impacts results.
In some of these hypothetical scenarios, I feel like I’d act differently depending on how high my emotional thinking was in that instance. Or is it just the case of different aspects coming forward?
For example, when I was being devalued I found myself snapping at other people, and when I’m being idealized I feel like I draw people in more.
Minimal alterations in percentages but the fundamental outcome remains the same.
Makes sense! Thanks HG
You are welcome.
Something that WhoCares responded in a comment to me and my re-reading an early comment, comparing it to my most recent comment (‘Who Is Alastor’) made me consider. Not all articles / videos that HG does will invoke ET responses / reactions and comparing earlier / older comments can show a measurement of someone’s journey. Sometimes there is no ‘change’ in the original mindset / thought indicating that there is a part of the LT’s ‘perception’ that remains the same about the same book / article / video.
For those with the contagion element where it works by feeling and experiencing the emotion(s) of the person/people around them…have you ever felt that your behavior was influenced by the absorption of those feelings? Are certain feelings more likely to generate a confrontational response from you?
Example: Say you are on a walk in the park with a friend or two. You see two adults in a hostile verbal altercation. One is an empath retreating from the other physically and emotionally, due to fear of the fight getting physical or simply wanting the fight to end. The other is a very angry narcissist…
Assuming that you confront the narcissist and that you’re too distracted by the injustice to be shielding/guarding your emotions… How does the anger impact you as you confront? What impact does the fear have?
Hi Dani,
Yes, I’ve felt my behavior influenced by the feelings of others. One thing I noticed in the past few years is that because I’m able to feel when other people are uncomfortable or being inauthentic, I alter my behavior to get them to feel comfortable and accepted because their inauthenticity makes me uncomfortable. Often times this ends in me putting others’ feelings ahead of my own because in that moment, I feel their feelings more strongly than I feel my own. I hate that I do this, and have to consciously and cognitively go against it sometimes.
I can also usually tell when people are lying because their “energy” (sorry HG 😂) feels different than the things they’re saying. But because unaware narcissists believe their own bullshit, they usually come across as truthful to me. It’s like there’s no energetic difference between what they say and their authentic self because they don’t have an authentic self. The golden period has always felt extra disarming for me for that reason.
In terms of confrontation, I usually confront in situations of injustice or powerlessness. In your example, feeling her fear is what would make me take action to help her feel safe and protected. Her fear of him wouldn’t make me feel any more or less fearful of him though. His anger would probably feel so overwhelming I would try to neutralize it first. If that didn’t work and he started attacking me as well, then I would probably go head to head with him. I’m way more confrontational with narcissists for some reason.
So interesting, I’m contagion-super-codependent and I feel like I just described facets of all three!
Hello Victorious–
I think there are good things to be said for putting others feelings first. That being said when a person does that too much, it’s not a good thing. Sometimes, you have to look out for you so you can lookout for others.
How would you go about neutralizing the anger in the moment?
You seem to be more confrontational with narcissists…sounds like the addiction to me.
I agree you did describe facets of all three! That was amazing.
@dani
You’re right, that does sound like part of the addiction! I’m terms of trying to calm down the anger id probably say something like “I understand you’re really angry, but you’re better than this/you seem like a good person.” OH GOD no wonder I’m surrounded by mid rangers
Publicly hostile sounds like a lesser though so I’d probably end up arguing/calling the cops.
What would your reaction be?
@anna
That’s amazing, are you Super Savior?? It sounds lovely to be able to turn the emotions off in those moments!
I have significant super but it tends to come out mostly in private moments ie in relationships with narcissists.
Would you place more importance on holding the narcissist accountable than making sure the empath is okay? I would be worried about getting the narcissist even more worked up.
I think @anna is me (not the other Anna!)
I am a majority super majority saviour, yes.
My thinking would be if I could stop the aggressor the victim would be helped.
I’m quite fearless in these moments. I’m even prepared to get hurt.
Victorious–
Mu gut instinct…
1) Make sure my friend is ready to call the police if it escalates.
2) Get between the two and speak to the person being screamed at, and ask if they’re okay, if they need anything.
I don’t know that I would have answered the same before I found HG’s work. (Meaning I think I would have had my eyes on the angrier person, but I’m not sure.) But after a year of listening to the Ultra’s mellifluous, chocolatey voice teaching all the empaths in his fuel matrix (as he leads the empath revolution against his inferior brother and sister narcs), the phrase, “don’t give the narcissist fuel,” is pretty well settled.
What wounds the narcissist? Ignoring them. My instinct is that they’re more likely to retreat if they’re ignored. Is there a guarantee that they will retreat? No. But I’m also cutting off their fuel provision, a little from me as a tertiary source and blocking their line of sight with (most likely) the primary source. Do I think it increases the chances of withdrawal? Yes. (Did I do okay, Mr. Tudor?)
If the narc started screaming at me…I don’t know that I would be able to keep my cool. I don’t have a quick temper, but once that fire starts, it burns, HOT. I like to think I’d have the fortitude to not scream back (I’ve had a fair amount of training in how to de-escalate situations, owing to jobs I’ve had, and I would remind myself that I might have a narc on my hands)…but I don’t know that I could continue to ignore them as easily if they got physical with me or started screaming insults at me.
I’ll reply here, Dani, as I am definitely the type to insert myself in that situation and challenge the person attacking the other. I’d not be absorbing the feelings of those two people. I’d see injustice. I’d feel some fear but my dislike of injustice is stronger and would force me to act.
While in the fray I’d be energised and not feel many emotions. I’d be strategising, trying to find the right things to say to change the situation.
My two strongest schools are super and contagion but the super will override the contagion when it sees injustice and I’m in a position to do something about it. Feelings get pushed down to deal with the job at hand.
It’s much more likely to deeply affect me if I’m unable to act. Then I’ll feel it all much more.
Hello annaamel!
Thank you for sharing.
“While in the fray I’d be energised and not feel many emotions. I’d be strategising, trying to find the right things to say to change the situation.” — Would the emotions of the situation in any way later catch up with you? Would you need to retreat to relax and let it fall out?
“Feelings get pushed down to deal with the job at hand.” — Fascinating.
“It’s much more likely to deeply affect me if I’m unable to act. Then I’ll feel it all much more.” — Are there mitigating factors that would cause you to pause between stepping between aggressor and victim? i.e. the size difference between you and the aggressor?
Completely different scenario: If you were walking with a friend and saw a homeless person who needed a bite of food and your friend feels really uncomfortable in that situation (and you know, not only because you can feel it but because they’ve told you in the past). What choice would you make? Ignore the homeless stranger in favour of the comfort of your friend? Or make sure that you get them something to eat.
Hi Dani. I’ll do an HG answer for economy..
1. Probably not.
2. No
3. Yes.
4. This is unlikely to stop me.
5. I’d help the homeless person.
Much to gain from being succinct.
Yes! I agree with this. Feeling helpless if no solutions at hand definitely weighs on me and I can even feel physical pain manifest from it sometimes. Back and neck pain and feelings of depression depending on how helpless I felt. Even a sliver of hope or light can help.
I feel like with 2 people arguing I would feel like intervening would potentially make the situation worse. Because then the potential narc would already be heated and then this person coming along would be threatening his sense of control on a wider scale. And then you could be putting the woman in a worse position potentially. I guess it would depend on the severity of the fight. Because in the grand scheme it may not help.Maybe police? But then it could escalate that as well. I think this is why in America the democrats were pushing for mental health funding. I don’t know what the solution would be though. Offering the woman help in some way.
Hello Dani: I put myself in those situations. I go to dog parks a lot and there are often human conflicts. Since I am a lawyer I usually will explain the legal consequences and offer to obtain them if needed. For example, one big female got upset at this slender older Japanese man over their dogs. She became verbally hostile and raised her fist. I walked over with my phone raised and explained to her if she hits him I will call the police and their our multiple witnesses and she would go to jail with a felony record which would effect her ability to vote and work or travel and if he sues her and she owns anything she would lose everything she worked her life on owning to this very man. Not worth it right? . I said I used to be a DA and know many and have seen this happen. Is it worth it? She is here because she loves her dog and she could lose that dog if she went away or couldn’t work. Then I added it is not in any of these innocent dogs interests to have hostility in a park. We are all here to give our dogs fun. I suggested they move to opposite sides of the park. She left. She listened. He thanked me. I have often approached conflict in this way. Sometimes someone’s dog is mean and aggressive. I will ask the person if he wants the police to put it down? He can save his pets life by leaving but if he lets it carry on and it bites someone or hurts the other dog , there is a one bite rule and the dog will be put down by police. I lie. I don’t know if this rule exists but this stance has worked many times when the owners are fighting. Lol
RE: „hostile verbal altercation/ potential of the fight getting physical“ — I’d evaluate the potential thread/ outcome and interfere if I’d see a chance on my part, to calm the aggressor down, making the aggressor the center of my attention and calm. Asking if he is alright etc. and making it all about him, ignoring the victim for the sake of the victim, by removing the thread (the victim) from the aggressors radar and turning his attention on to myself (Jurassic Park moment, if you will, by waving the flare in front of the T-Rex). The typical loud aggressor is the true victim, of how he perceives himself, so it should be validated in his perception, to begin with… Though I may be exploding on the inside, understanding the danger of the situation, as you never know, I also tune into the feelings of care for the aggressor in order to deescalate…The aggressor is also a victim of his own demons, so there is the need to help him, even just a little, in this moment… Compassion usually don’t choose the right or wrong wounded, so it helps to be reminded of this, if the situation demands it. And some type of predators sense the authenticity, always, and obey by it, if you will, and sometimes I can see which ones will follow my flare so to speak… There are also situations, I would never interfere if I’d see my interference would be useless/not needed or my „super powers“ are not enough.
Jordy,
I now have a head cannon of you playing the part of Ian Malcolm to my Alan Grant…lighting that flare while I help the children out of a car flipped by a T. rex…you lead the T. rex away…”JORDY, FREEZE!”
The key element for me in this situation is that I have a friend there to help. If I were on my own, it changes what I would do.
Hihihihi!!!! Ian Malcolm! Lmao! We’d make an awesome neighborhood watch!! …Hurry up! DANI ! …Not that car! Wrong children! Put them back!… Nice Rex…follow the flare, good boy… DAAAANiiiii
Witch and AV,
Complex post traumatic stress disorder would most likely be the “official diagnosis”, if you were to obtain medical professional opinions.
HG has already provided what the “diagnosis” is = addiction to narcissism, ET not being managed / understood / learned, in my view, it is basically similar ‘symptoms’ to the affects of CPTSD.
Both of you have had Empath Detectors done. The results of your EDC, which I believe, gives you insight into what your characteristics (strengths / weaknesses) which may be brought to the fore because of interaction with narcissists, or ET triggers via external stressors) are because of your addiction to narcissism. You have that information to hand, so, you are already half-way there, if you were to seek an official medical opinion.
I, personally, have never denied my Aspergers, my deafness, my CPTSD (life-long narcissistic abuse), my anxiety because of having to deal with several difficulties at the same time (especially when out in public, but, much more easily ‘managed’ since my own awareness & learning HG’s work) = complex comorbidities in one. I cannot separate any of them from the other because they are all part of me as a person. What I have done, is to learn and understand each ‘comorbidity’ as it is and how it impacts me as a person., and how each of those comorbidities can impact on the other, it depends on where, how, when, what, who, if any, within my immediate environment (triggers, external stressors within a LOCE, potentially).
I suggest that you both, Witch & AV, to read up on CPTSD and link that to your EDC that you have and I think you will find it is basically the same thing – CPTSD by the DSM lists and addiction to narcissism is HG’s version. Your own unique EDC, in my view, takes your CPTSD into a more detailed analysis than you would have obtained via medical professionals because they go by the “standard lists”.
As for understanding more about the specific details on empath schools and cadres, HG has made everyone aware that he is working on these and will release this information when he is ready to do so. I have no doubt that HG will have covered may be a lot of what you are referring to within his new work on Empaths, because HG is very thorough in what he creates.
Thank you, HG, for your time in moderating 🙂
Hi Asp Emp
You stated that you have never denied your Aspergers, CPTSD, and anxiety. Were these diagnosed by a medical professional or through your own research? If by a medical professional, was it as an adult? (as I assume your mother would be less than helpful in this area, but I could be wrong). Also, what was the process of you going about finding a medical professional that you were confident in accepting their findings? So many people write that they went several routes or through a long string of individuals (therapists, psychiatrists, etc) and were not satisfied with the results. Then they came here and used HG’s assessment tools (Narc Detector, Empath Detector, Trait Detector, etc) and found their answers in them. I was just curious which was the case for you. As always, no obligation to answer, and my apologies if you find it too personal.
Hi NarcAngel, no, it’s fine, it is not too personal and thank you for asking.
Anxiety was officially diagnosed (by a GP at the time), as an adult, around 20 years before Aspergers was officially diagnosed (forced to go through process to prove myself due to lack of understanding / acceptance through an authority body – simply because they – not me – they needed the proof!) . Parental narcissist must have known but obviously failed to assist me in these areas in childhood / adulthood. A boss told me to get anger management, only to be told by the one therapist who informed me that I was not the one with the “problem” (I strongly suspect that the boss received a formal report of some kind, following 6 sessions). Having said that, I mentioned abuse in childhood as part of my sessions with that therapist (who advised me to write a letter to parental narcissist – who had refused to read it, surprise, surprise). And discussed the abuse with the diagnostic person RE: Aspergers.
CPTSD is still quite new to doctors and it was never mentioned to me. I came across it some time after I found HG’s work and made the “link” where CPTSD behaviours were basically similar as to why victims get drawn / attract narcissists in a cycle until the victim stops it through awareness / understanding = similar to HG’s work being applied, getting ET / LT understood and to learn how to manage it better etc.
You know the rest. I appreciate your questions and thank you for listening, NA 🙂
Have you tried DBT? I read about it and I think it is wonderful for everyone but especially dealing with anxiety.
“Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) is a modified type of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Its main goals are to teach people how to live in the moment, develop healthy ways to cope with stress, regulate their emotions, and improve their relationships with others” (verywellmind.com)
Thank you for your suggestion. I think you may have missed some of what I have said previously and especially recently (on KTN blog) in regard to my own personal journey. I have explained that I have learned how to recognise when I sense my anxiety ‘appearing’, if any, these days (re-read my comment as above). And what triggers it. If I were to refer myself for such “treatment” of ie CBT / DBT, I know I will be asked why do I need it now when I have spent 2.5 years utilising HG’s work?
For you to understand me as an individual, may I suggest that you read up on Aspergers (especially in social interaction / communication) and profound deafness, someone who was a victim of narcissistic abuse but still an ACON. And try, just try, to imagine all of those combined without having someone standing next to you as a support, someone to assist / reassure you etc. Imagine that there is a fight going on, a lot of shouting and I am not hearing what is actually said, not knowing if there is potentially a dangerous situation going on.
How on earth is DBT going to assist me in that?
Apologies, NA. I’d add that it was my sister who mentioned Aspergers to me around 5 years after anxiety diagnosis (informing me of my father too). Two of my friends (boarding school) completed a questionnaire of behaviours (responses etc) and I gave those to the Aspergers diagnostic team, I showed a diary parental narcissist kept (my learning / speech learned from around 6 months to around 4 / 5). She made a record that showed, clearly that she did not like my “being awkward” when I was 3, however, that I was ‘ok’ with the speech therapist at that time. So, I could suggest that I had “learned” that the parental narcissist was in fact “hurting” me from an early age, not because of my deafness, nor, my Aspergers.
I appreciate you responding AE.
@ASP
Sorry to hear that your mum was criticising you so early, that’s awful
There’s no point in asking my mum anything because she wouldn’t tell me if there was anything abnormal about me, she’ll just say “you were fine”
I remember her telling me my SAT’s results were bad but that’s about it
Thank you, Witch.
That’s what my mom would say, did say once when I asked, too. Right after I found the notes between my kindergarten teacher and my mom where my mom indicated to the teacher that I was the problem in a situation where I’d been picked on by another girl and defended myself. And my mom was also sympathetic to me but did question how my dress had been ripped repeatedly. I told her, repeatedly, that the other girl had bitten it as we stood in line. When I found the papers, I was so shocked, she’d literally thrown me under the bus to the teacher! But that teacher, and all the others after, just have been able to see that I wasn’t the problem, I never had any incidents, not one, except that one, in all my school career. It was just another thing that fell into place upon learning about my mother’s narcissism.
@AV
These kinds of parents they don’t want to notice anything out of place because then they feel it reflects badly on them because they cannot differentiate between themselves and other people within their fuel matrix.
My narc sisters’ son is autistic and allegedly when he was diagnosed my sister said “is there something wrong with me as to why my son is autistic?”
Well yes there is but it’s a separate issue
@Witch,
In other words, why she couldn’t admit to me that she felt I was the problem, even though she told the teacher I was? You hit the nail right on the head that she cannot differentiate between she and me, so this does make sense to me. But I don’t understand why she told the teacher I was the problem. And especially since I know I wasn’t the problem in that situation. But on the other hand, she thought we were terrible children, to justify her secret abuse of us. It’s all convoluted.
@Witch, Thank you for the info though, that is a piece I had not put together.
NA I have friends on the spectrum and some don’t like the label Asperger’s. They say that it is correct to say only ASD or on the spectrum. I don’t know honestly and am asking you about this. I am just curious as I wonder what their beef is? Does it matter? Why would I be corrected?
Contagious, valid question. Regarding using the label Aspergers, some people may prefer that compared to autism spectrum, autistic, ASD, spectrum. Some people were diagnosed prior to the “removal” of Aspergers and it being allocated to (High Functioning) Autism and may prefer to stick with Aspergers. I do. Unless the Law states ‘Aspergers’ cannot be used, then, it is understandable that other people may ‘object’ to the use of the word.
Some autistics may be quite ‘rigid’ (similar to systematic / methodical) in their thinking, hence maybe ‘objecting’ to what / how you describe it. Some may not understand that other people have their way of speaking and cannot always think laterally (some can), ie being open-minded, hence “correcting” you.
Personally, I do not think there is an issue about whether you say Aspergers or not. Thank you for asking the question 🙂
I also understand Asperger’s is now considered an outdated term, since it was merged into ASD to provide a more consistent framework.
Interested to hear views of someone with a diagnosis as I actively try to use the term ASD these days.
Hi Gillain and AspEmp,
I don’t have ASD, but my oldest stepson was diagnosed when he was about 10 yrs old. He was difficult to be around for me at times, he liked to manipulate and hit people. He had behavioral issues, in addition to ASD and he’s now living in a State run facility because of his aggressive behaviors towards others. I stepped back from him a while ago, for my own safety and sanity. I couldn’t deal with him anymore. I feel bad sometimes, but if you were around his behavior, you’d understand what i mean, not normal ASD behavior, just wanted to clarify that.. he wasn’t typical ASD. I never heard of asperger being outdated, it’s new to me.
Thank you ASP
Yes I have seen a psychologist on YouTube called Doc Snipes who talks about CPTSD. I just have to find the motivation to implement what she suggests
Witch, thank you for your reply. I have never heard of the doctor you have mentioned. NHS England do have information on CPTSD but I found more in-depth detail via healthline.com (American based).
@ASP
Unless you’re showing acute symptoms forget the NHS when it comes to mental health
I agree you’ll learn more from American psychologists online
Thank you Asp.
Hello Asp Emp,
I think I might have CPTSD. I have some questions about the EDC. I saw your comment and you say you “believe” the EDC gives you insight into someone’s characteristics. Since you said “you believe”, are you saying you haven’t done the EDC? If that’s true and you haven’t done the detectors, can someone confirm that what you’re saying is correct?
You also say that if we read up about CPTSD & link up to the EDC results, that it would be basically the same thing. Can you elaborate on this statement? I’m not following. Are you saying that the EDC will confirm if I have CPTSD?
Mary says (to Asp Emp)
“If that’s true and you haven’t done the detectors, can someone confirm that what you’re saying is correct?”
I have read a lot of Asp Emp’s comments through the years and I believe she is an Empath. (Not a Narcissist and not a Normal)
Hi Another Cat, thank you so much for your view. That means a lot. Now, I will go and get my EDC sorted out 🙂 It amused me when you suggested that I am not a Normal (I think that is apparent) 🙂
Haha, damn straight you’re not a normal 😁
PS. HG might put me on the naughty step for swear word.
Another Cat, you, on the naughty step for saying “damn”? That makes two of us now 😉 Well, I sent in my EDC 🙂
Hi Another Cat, once again, thank you for your ‘prompt’. I have got my EDC back (I just need to peruse through it now). Yes. I am an empath 🙂 Great news! 🙂
Hi Asp Emp! Xx
Congrats on getting your ED done and welcome to the Empath Club! Xx 🥰❤️
Bless you, Rebecca. Thank you so much for that 🙂 I no longer have to question myself 🙂 TBH, I was surprised but not surprised! Thank you, once again, for the ‘welcome’. xx
Hi Asp Emp,
I’m not surprised by your answer to the ED, I sensed your empathy in your comments to me and others, and the fact you defended me once , on the blog and it felt genuine. Thank you for that! It was very kind of you. I appreciate you doing that.xx 🥰❤️ I’m curious what school and cadre you got, but you don’t have to share, as you know that…xx
Hi Rebecca, ahh, your words moved me. Thank you for saying “it felt genuine”, of course I’d assist someone in need but now more mindful of boundaries if you can understand? I have not asked HG for permission to share my empath status, as yet. There are times when I do things by the book 😉 Thank you for your support, it means a lot 🙂 xx
Asp Emp,
I get the sentiment in Rebecca’s comment and congratulations – but there was never a question about whether you belonged to the empath club (at least in mind.)
If it wasn’t evident in the supportive comments, over the duration of your time on the blog, that you’ve often offered – it was quite clear by the way you reflect upon and re-evaluate your past comments and your drive for self-knowledge.
But I am certain if feels good to have that confirmation.
Thank you, WhoCares 🙂 Interesting about reflect; re-evaluate and the drive, thank you for sharing that. Yes, it does feel good 🙂
🙂
Asp Emp,
Happy to hear your news, it’s exciting getting the results back!
Happy reading and pondering!
Xx
Thank you, TS 🙂
Hi Asp Emp,
I’d be willing to bet, that you have some Savior in you, like me. Xx I have a story to tell you, in regards to my Savior side. I was walking my dog, the other week and another neighborhood dog jumped his fence and went after my dog. Lucky for me and my dog, I saw and heard the other dog coming, so I was able to swoop up my dog ,before he got mauled or killed. This was a big German Shepherd and he wanted my dig badly! I kept having to hold my dog and spin away from the other dog, every time he lounged for my dog. He tried getting him from me, several times and I was screaming like a nutcase! His last lounge had me picking my dog up and over my head and that’s when the dog bit the underside of my bicep and his front fangs and one back fang went in my arm. I didn’t even feel it, I was scared for my dog and was more concentrating on keeping my dog safe. Luckily, the owner and my husband got the dog off me before he could yank my arm or rip into my arm. When the other dog was restrained, my dog and I were both crying and shaking. I held him so tight to me and just cried. I started feeling a slight stinging pain in my arm and that’s when I noticed I was bit and I frantically changed my dog for bites. He was fine, I kept him safe and I was so grateful he wasn’t hurt. I’ll live xx
Rebecca,
Lucky for your dog that you reacted quick! Unlucky for you though 🙁.
Hope you heal quick!
“His last lounge had me picking my dog up and over my head and that’s when the dogs bit the underside of my bicep and his front fangs and one back fang went in my arm.”
By the way, did you find out if the dog is up to date with its shots?
Sorry – you probably did, just asking because I had a similar experience recently – got bit by a charging German Shepherd, in my building, but couldn’t react because I was holding a laundry basket and it happened so fast. So, I know what you mean – you don’t feel it at first and then the pain arrives afterwards.
Rebecca & WhoCares, what is it with these German Shepherd breed of the dog? I was attacked by one when I was around 11. I think they can sense the empaths and because (laughing here) the German Shepherd dogs are narcissists (!!!!) and they “know” 😉 Now, we also know 😉
Asp Emp,
Sorry you had a similar experience! That would be memorable at 11, I am sure.
I don’t know if it’s a thing with German Shepherds though – I have known sweet, protective German Shepherds when I was young. The only other dog breed I suffered a bite from was a half-sedated Golden Retriever (if you don’t count my great grandmother’s chihuahua nipping my heels every time I went to visit her, as a child).
The owner of the German Shepherd has two of them actually, and the original one is well behaved and quite responsive to her owner’s voice. The other one is very aggressive and I believe it was a rescue (so perhaps it was mistreated.) Anyway, they were both charging me, it turns out – so that was part of the problem: I couldn’t tell if it was the nice one, the mean one or both. The laundry basket was blocking my view and I was trapped in the stairwell.
WhoCares, I think it is a ‘thing’, consider that maybe the more aggressive of the two ‘overpowers’ the second one? Yes, I would be inclined to agree on the rescue (and previously abused) because I’ve seen that in dogs especially. Sorry, I laughed at the “half-sedated Golden Retriever” (not the fact it bit you), because those dogs tend to be really soft. Good thing you did not get hurt because of where you were at the time.
Well, Asp Emp – re: the Golden, it was kind of my own fault…my hands *were* in his mouth you see – because he had just come out of surgery (still had the tube down his throat and tied to his muzzle) and he was just coming to from the effects of the anesthesia. (Highschool co-op placement at a veterinarian clinic.)
All the other staff were, unfortunately, were involved in attempting to get Mikey, a deranged Siamese cat (regular client whose kennel cage you venture past with great care and a wide berth) into The Cat Bag before he latched on to and bit a staff member. (It is still kind of comical to my memory seeing all of them, like four pairs of hands – including a male vet over 6′ wearing those thick leather gloves – wrestle poor Mikey.
Anyway, I was only a student but I had to address the dog coming to – or he would have choked I suppose…sadly, I looked away for second, at the cat bag chaos, while attempting to remove the tube and the dog bit down on my finger.
So, not really the poor dog’s fault or even normally in his nature.
Good times.
I decided I didn’t really want to be a vet.
Laughing…….at the “deranged Siamese cat” (did it belong to Jada P Smith by any chance 😉 )? Oh, thank you, you made me laugh, WhoCares. Yes, work experience is good as a on-hands ‘what would it be like’ test. I did a couple of work experiences myself, I did do admin some years later. That cat! Laughing.
Asp Emp,
Mikey was memorable.
@ WhoCares in regards to her question about the dog, who bit me….Yes, he had his shots and I don’t think he was going for me, he wanted my dog and I got in the way. He was focused totally on my dog and evading his owner’s attempts to grab him, he kept circling my dog and me, it was really intense and I was full of adrenaline and wired up from it.
When the dog was restrained, we left and I checked my dog again. I ended up going to the MedExpress, getting a tetanus shot and the wounds being cleaned. Lucky for me, the dog bit me through my jacket, otherwise there would have been more damage. As it was, it looked like a vampire bite and it bruised too. I sent pics to HG, as a way of saying, check this wound out, my Savior side getting me in trouble again. 😂 I can say one thing, that is the third time I saved my dog from another dog, my dog must say something to these dogs to be getting them to try and kick his ass. I’m just grateful his grumpy butt wasn’t hurt. Xx
“my dog must say something to these dogs to be getting them to try and kick his ass” Haha. I am glad you are both okay.
@Asp Emp and WhoCares,
I’m glad you got your ED done, Asp Emp!. 😂 Don’t worry, I always knew I wasn’t normal either! I reacted and got way more emotional when things happened, than my brother or mother. My dad was the only one, in my immediate family, who would react as strong as me and get emotional like me. I think my dad was an empath, most likely had some Carrier, Geyser and Codependent in him, just based on his behaviors and how responsible he was with his duties and family.He was highly emotional like me, I’ve seen him cry three times and each time, it was a very serious and deadly situation. His tears were from stress and fear of losing my mother or me. He wasn’t a weak man, he just deeply cared for us. I felt his fear and stress, and I felt bad for him and hurt for him. Seeing him cry, made me cry and then it just turned into a whole Geyser cry fest. Xx
HG,
Could I do an Empath Detector on my dad?? Xx Thanks for doing what you do! Xx I just want to know what he was, the school, the cadre…I need to know. Xx
No, you can do a narc detector on him though.
@HG, In regards to the ND on my dad….OK, I’ll do the ND on my dad, at least I’ll know what he was. Thank you HG xx
@Mary
The empath detector doesn’t tell you that you have CPTSD
It was a suggestion to use your ED results and learn what CPTSD is to better understand yourself
Thank you for that, Witch.
@ Asp Emp and WhoCares,
In regards to the comment about Empaths and German Shepherds…If German Shepherds are narcissist and they sense that we’re empaths, then that explains why I think they’re beautiful dogs and I’m drawn to them. 😂 I also like the Austrian breed and the name starts with a M. Their hair is shorter and they can jump really high, more muscular, more compact and Police K9 units have them a lot. They’re also beautiful and very intelligent. When I worked at night, there was a K9 officer, who would come in and talk with me. His dog , Potter, would let me pet him, but I made sure to move slowly around him because he was on duty and I sensed on edge and ready to strike on command, and I’m over there petting him. Smh at myself. I couldn’t resist petting him. 😂
Hello Mary, no, I am not suggesting that the EDC “confirms” CPTSD.
Hi Mary, I’ve done the empath and trait detectors. The empath detector will tell you if you’re narcissistic, normal or an empath. If you’re an empath, you will also be told your school and cadre and what type of narc will be attracted to you. The TDC gives you a breakdown of your empathic & narcissistic traits, such as caretaker, love devotee, justice, infidelity, showcasing, defiance, pride, etc.
I’ve done some research on CPTSD myself and I don’t believe it’s basically the same as the empath detector. However, the empath & trait detectors are fantastic tools to learn about yourself. Mr. Tudor really knows his stuff. I hope you do decide to do them.
@emc
You can use a pseudonym to maintain your privacy. People don’t have to relate to something to be interested in it.
I’m a dash of contagion- I’ve had a vision once about something happening just before it did. Many people don’t see intuition as logical because they don’t experience it and rely only on hard evidence. People can get killed relying on hard evidence so intuition and feeling that something is going to go wrong because you’re picking up on subtle cues or details that some other people may miss is useful. I’m interested in majority contagions and what they experience
Trust your gut! Lol
Hi Witch
Re: Distancing from non-biological being easier.
Possibly, likely even at first thought. Although I wonder in the case of some DNA with no further interaction vs no DNA but a lifetime of influence, which would have more effect on that ability. In my case, though my main abuser was my stepfather, I also thought my mother was mentally ill (but in a different way than him) so I put little to no stock in what she had to offer either. Any protection of her was tied to the effect it had on myself and my siblings and that continued until they could leave on their own (albeit the damage was done at that point). The only difficulty in distancing from her was in losing them. Also, I met my biological father much later in life. I spent a few days where he lived and met with him several times (but did not stay in his home). I don’t know what he is, but I sensed he wanted more from me than he was going to offer, so I left it at that visit. He tried to pursue me after that but I cut ties permanently when I saw increasingly that was likely the case (due to his communications). So I have had DNA and non DNA interaction and influence. The decision for me is in how this person (whomever they may be and whatever label they have) affects me. If it is not positive or beneficial I distance/sever. We did not get to choose those who share our DNA, but we do get to choose how much we allow them to influence the balance of our lives once we are of age and free of them no matter their label. People ask me (repeatedly) about guilt (for distancing) and my response to that is that guilt is nothing but a sneaky conduit to continuing abuse. No, I have none.
@NA
Thank you for explaining
It’s definitely genetic then
I’m pretty sure I’ve got complex PTSD from my parents
People definitely deal with things in different ways and I’ve observed that with my siblings too.
I have felt temporary feelings of guilt for not having contact with my mum and HG helped me with that on one occasion. But I don’t feel guilty anymore and I feel she is better of dead and I don’t feel guilty about knowing she is better of dead. Same with my dad, but at least my dad contributes to society in some way by having a job.
One of my sisters, she likes to play tough, says she doesn’t feel guilty, claims nothing bothers her but I know that isn’t the case because if it was for real she would have stopped contact and not allowed her child to be around her. She stays in contact because she feels guilty because trust me this woman has zero to offer so there can be no other reason. So I know she’s suffering even if she won’t admit it because of her high trait of pride. But actions speak louder than words. And actions indicate denial and dishonesty
Actually I’ve looked and I don’t really fit the diagnostic criteria for PTSD and I don’t meet the requirement for “avoidance of reminders” also don’t have persistent difficulty in maintaining relationships
I also don’t really have flashbacks or intrusive memories as such, I just remember what happened
but I don’t really trust all diagnostic criteria’s because they often only consider the most extreme symptoms- the most severe coping mechanisms
So if you’re able to maintain a normal life even if it’s difficult to do so, even if you wake up feeling anxious just because the air is cold… it’s like “don’t worry you’re fine”
@Witch, what’s equally confusing to me is that I do fit much of the diagnosis for PTSD, don’t remember if complex or not at this moment, but I always thought “Life is hard, that’s normal.”, and just carried on because what other choice is there. The help I sought out at particularly difficult times didn’t pick up on this, the possibility of PTSD, at any point. What is wrong with our world?! And I believe they need a dx for anyone who’s been involved with narcissists also.
@Av
What’s a DX?
Dx is diagnosis.
I definitely need a diagnosis because I’m not normal
Me too! Seriously though, we’ve been affected by this personality disorder, at some level or another, and it does leave many, if not most, of us a bit of a mess. If we could have an official diagnosis with actual steps, probably from HG, for our recovery, it might be taken more seriously in the larger world. It would bring a focus to it like nothing else can.
@AV
Let me have a little Megan Markle moan….
The government should be paying for my psychotherapy 😂
😂 Same!
Hey Witch and others! Notice “what the Contagian Does” is so popular? Wonder why?
Contagious : “Hey Witch and others! Notice “what the Contagian Does” is so popular? Wonder why?”
Hi Contagious, maybe it is because it’s contagious hehe…
Great reply! I just was thinking if contagian is the rarer of the cadre why so much attention on the blog. You don’t see as much from super, geyser, Cod etc…
It is because less is written about it and furthermore the rarity aspect is for a majority contagion, plenty of people have minority aspects.
“The decision for me is in how this person (whomever they may be and whatever label they have) affects me.” This is a great measuring stick. Thank you NA.
“People ask me (repeatedly) about guilt (for distancing) and my response to that is that guilt is nothing but a sneaky conduit to continuing abuse.”
Thank you, NA!
NA,
You make a great many good, logical points. There’s a lot there to think about, particularly regarding “guilt is nothing but a sneaky conduit to continuing abuse.”
Thank you for sharing.
I don’t have guilt over distancing either. None. I have thought that it’s the combo of my Super with my lack of CoD that makes this do. Maybe, or the dismissive-avoidant thing, maybe both. But my daughter doesn’t feel guilt after separating either and she is CoD so it’s probably the Super on it’s own, which she has a dollop of, or the DA. Thanks for your comment.
Hello AC–
Thank you for sharing!
I’m not familiar with the dismissive-avoidant attachment style. I’ll look it up and read some more.
“They don’t usually dismiss lighter friendships and can have many friends, fun activities and cool jobs/career.” Narcissists can have successful jobs/careers and many friends.
“It is SOLELY their spouse, and I guess their children too, who suffer.” — What about someone who want to be closer friends?
“My guess is that the avoidant felt as though he needed to be the solid rock for his parents, smiling, seeming strong and kind, not affected by them neglecting their son. A survival strategy.” — Or not wanting give them more fuel (if the parent is a narcissist) and/or be attacked verbally and/or physically.
“I was very taken by reading about this, and understood that this was my exboyfriend’s life and situation (we met again a few montessori ago after 22 years apart). Often some of us empaths are drawn to all kinds of difficult people in need, not just narcissists.” — There are all sorts of people in need. Someone are difficult and can be helped. And I think some don’t want help or don’t want to admit that they need help.
“With a lot of therapy they sometimes get well, but until they learn to acknowledge their feelings, DAs will evade and stonewall/gaslight, in certain situations.” — I hope that most get better, and that if they want to have healthy romantic relationships/relationships with their children that they get to do so.
I guess close friends suffer too, Dani.
And the problem is probably Alexithymia, not being able to name one’s own feelings. Consciousness in humans has a lot to do with naming things, communicating.
Due to childhood neglect. Often it wasn’t outright abuse towards the DA, just parents not being present, maybe worked a lot, I guess, and the child not having any NPD genes, so becoming a narc to cope with childhood wasn’t an option for them.
This is so interesting AC! Thank you so much for sharing about this. I have a person who I’ve been in contact with for 3 years or so. About a month ago she asked me to meet for dinner. When we arrived, toward the end of the time, I said, “Oh, there’s something I wanted to tell you. We’re friends now!”. She sat there and kind of said “Oh, okay .. ” which at the time I didn’t catch really. Later she texted me and apologized, she hadn’t known how to respond, in her mind we’d been friends since the first time we’d had dinner together 3 years before! I was surprised by that! I had been surprised to realize that I’d decided she was a friend! I could still right now walk away and never talk with her again and not miss her. That is terrible and so not empathic, I am aware. But I cannot be bound to people. I don’t see the need or understand how it works. I am bound to my children and maybe to their children. But this is exactly why I don’t reach out to other people. I don’t feel of value to them, I don’t understand why I’d be of value to them, if they and I parted ways, no loss for me. And the not seeing my value isn’t terrible for me, it’s how I also view them.
We moved 10 times in my first 12 years, my parents did not know how to bond, being narcs, and in fact were not even nice so that I’d want to bond with them. So, I just don’t, don’t get it. I so much appreciate you writing this here, I need to look at this. And the labeling part, so important, but even before one can label, one must know there is something to label. This is even an issue. My saving grace, as an empath, is that when I am with a person, I am present. I never set out to hurt another, or be dismissive.
People don’t know I am this way because of how I am when we’re together. That’s where my empathy comes out. But this is tiring for me so I don’t do it often. Thank you AC, this is more for me to ponder and sort through, really appreciate it.
Oh no, I just realized the ones I have “bonded” to are the narcs, the romantic ones, that’s the addiction! Until the line is drawn and I’m out. Arg, I hate narcissism.
Hi AV! Xx This is a response to your comment about yourself being a cold person….You’re not cold at all. Xx You’ve always been kind to me, welcoming and helpful, when I needed it most. You have a good heart. Thank you for being you and I appreciate you! Xx 🥰❤️
Omg, AV, this is so bloody interesting.
I didn’t think you and I were so different from eachother, it seems we are! I actually had the idea you and I are quite similar. 🙂 There you go, surprise.
I do have a shy side, but most of the time instead I kind of wear my heart on my sleeve. My feelings are written all over my face. Not spectacularly much, but still.
” I could still right now walk away and never talk with her again and not miss her. That is terrible and so not empathic, I am aware.”
Oh, God, I was a bit startled that you had told her “We are now friends!” after all this time. Lol. So endearing. I’m laughing a bit right now, sorry. I feel like your friend.
I think you seem very empathic, A Victor! But your story tells me you are not able to express your emotions and your empathy at times. You seem to work on it by doing exercises, naming your feelings, discovering them.
I guess your old self-soothing periods can become shorter that way. Your emotional bandwidth broadened, etc. That’s what I heard.
“But this is tiring for me so I don’t do it often.”
Of course. I imagine.
And I, on my end, have really had to meditate to work on becoming less anxious, more secure. Music and exercise has helped.
I easily turn into The Racing Mind, as HG describes in the post with that name. The “puzzle solver”.
Thank you AC, for your kind words and for not just rejecting me out of hand for this. Reading our comments back I am so ashamed to be so cold, and feel very vulnerable having put it here. Maybe shouldn’t have done that. But sometimes when things are exposed, they can be healed.
I have been told that I wear my heart on my sleeve also, that people always know what I’m feeling, I think it was a narc that told me this. I have also been told that I am impossible to read, I am actually quite good at poker. When Bubbles recently mentioned her RBF, I giggled at the idea of her trying this but also remembered that I can do this quite well, even if it has been a while since I’ve felt the need to. It is tiring to do it.
Seeing the video that HG did of Princess Kate (I hope that’s the proper title) and the ease at which she moved within her emotions, I thought, yes, that’s how it should be, it’s okay if I’m like that too! And I can, except that it’s not safe to in most settings, or that’s the message I’d accepted. No more, that message is going away. And as I identify more emotions, it will be easier to move within them when they happen, I am hoping. It is a victory for me every time I feel a new emotion, I will usually just sit and let myself feel it, where it hits in my body and I really work to connect it in my mind, so that I recognize it when it happens again. Even in the midst of activity I have done this because it is so important. But sadly they don’t come clearly very often so it is a slow process.
I was surprised at realizing I’d accepted my friend as a friend also, that was the first in person time that has happened. It is still a bit scary, what kind of expectations will she possibly have of me? And what am I expected to have of her? I don’t want any since it might make me feel obligated in some way and that’s just pressure then. I know this is immature on my part but it is seriously a thing I don’t understand and it’s easy to get overwhelmed by others expectations.
Thank you for saying you feel like my friend, that actually does mean a lot. People who say it straight out do get a special place in my heart, which is odd maybe, but true. I think the screen helps a great deal, I have online friends from a variety of places, most of whom are more valuable to me than most of my in person friends. The screen is a safety shield and also gives time to think before responding, what do I actually feel here, or if not that, how is my empathy affecting my thought process. This was true on a subconscious level even prior to learning about narcissism.
Sorry about this very long comment. But again I thank you AC. And as always you also HG, for this place to sort these things out.
PS, no worries about the laughing, I laugh at myself too! All the time! And I will check out the Racing Mind again also, thanks.
A Victor
Well I think it is best to listen to what nonnarcs say about us instead of what narcs say, often narcs lovebomb by meeting our unmet needs. Saying what no one else says. They can sense that we feel lonely.
But as I ve been reading here at Narcsite through the years, I would also get the impression that you are direct about your feelings.
So it was a total surprise to me what you had said to your friend of 3 years. 🙂
My father was an empath, and spent a lot of time with me, maybe this contributed to the fact that I’m quite open about my feelings.
I understand you not having learnt that people can ne trusted if both your parents were narcs. That’s crap and I wish you had a different childhood experience.
Being too anxious is also about not really showing empathy.
Constantly nervously asking the other person if I was good enough. Apologizing a lot. Etc. That’s collapsing and not really listening to the other person.
After not being in contact with narcs, not being their primary or secondary source, I have become calm enough to be more patient with people, giving them space, which is what they need.
It has worked remarkably well, distancing from narcissists is key, as HG says. The first thing to do, in chronological order…
Thank you AC, I emailed your comment to myself so I can break it down further, without having to find it on this enormous thread. There is a lot there to consider, thank you very much.
AV, you are absolutely not a “cold” person. You are a warm and calm woman.
You have a calming influence.
Joa, this means a lot to me, more than you know, thank you.
Hey Victor: love is rare. True love. Friendship love is easy. Maybe you just have not met the right one and it will happen. I would not write it off on an uneasy past. I would stay open to it. I would not be surprised if an empath like you said AHA! But those other loving relations are cherished too like kids! Xxx
Yes Contagious, what you say is true. I haven’t written anything off completely but have become okay whatever happens. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, they mean a lot to me.
Hi Dani: Iiked your thoughts about how a child would be the rock or adult for both parents. That was me. My parents married young. My momwas17and my dad was 19. She had me at 21. They had lots of issues. He was an alcoholic and a Vietnam vet but a very very kind man. She had unstable parents and I think was over whelmed. I was told I was tough. Strong. The capable child. Plus I was tested gifted. I was the oldest of three. I remember going to a church and a nun asking me at a retreat what it felt like when my mother hugged me. I said she needs me. I think if you ask yourself today: am I loved? I would say yes. God. Yes. My father unconditionally. My mother with limits. My friends. Yes. My kids . Yes. My husband. Yes. But he has issues. I think if you feel loved even if not family, it is ok. Not all lov in adulthood needs to be from parents. It’s not easy if not so but they go. Love comes from many sources. Go to it, that’s my creed. And above all, give it even if you were not loved the way every human deserves! Btw I am not avoidant;)
Hi, contagious,
sorry, it was me who pondered the Rock-for-the-parents, this is in different ways expressed in litterature.
The Dismissive-Avoidant was often extremely much encouraged to be on their own, no acknowledgement of emotions offered, because the parents were stressed out from work, or maybe abusive.
This exboyfriend is a person who is allergic to conflict, criticism or drama, and prefers to smile and handle things with (unconscious!) stonewalling. (I don’t mean like A Victor here, who might not at all, DAs must not do stonewalling/gaslighting,
but some CAN do, to avoid conflict)
Smile kept on the face. No vulnerability shown.
But he doesn’t require the spotlight, nor victim-spotlight, like a narcissist does. His feelings
don’t determine the whole room. Huge difference.
Hi AC and Contagious,
I relate again so much to this behavior of the dismissive avoidant. Though I am beginning to see how it is the empath/narc dynamic, for some empaths anyway. HG has written about our smile, that hides it all, for example.
But yes, the avoiding of conflict has been huge for me. Way beyond what I ever realized. I don’t think I gaslit anyone ever, that seems a little devious for an empath to do. Maybe some empath has. In my case though, I mostly just stuck my head in the sand, also not productive, but so much safer, until it allows for narcs into one’s life. That’s the downside and it’s huge.
Thinking about it a bit more, I think maybe it was a case of gaslighting myself really, looking back, just denying the truth as I saw it. To avoid conflict and also accept behavior that was not good so that I could still have the relationship. I didn’t feel I deserved better treatment, so it was fitting in that regard.
Hello AV. You don’t strike me as having a dismissive avoidant attachment style, if I consider your comments on the blog. But you could have the ‘disorganised’ style which means you move between avoidant and anxious depending on the context or other people involved.
How is dismissive avoidant different if it is from what we called in the 90s as fear of commitment? When you read about the self sufficient lone wolf who avoids intimacy it reminds me of dating in the 90s when the term commitment phobic was popular. I always felt it was someone who disliked responsibility. Someone who wanted to do what they wanted to do without having to compromise. I recall asking my 5 year wealthy boyfriend at the time: if a car was coming at me what would you do? He said I would instinctively put myself in front of you. But he did not want marriage or kids at late 30s. I said “ so you would die for me but you won’t marry me.” I left him crushed as I wanted kids and wrote a legal thriller at 28 called Harmless Error exploring the theme of commitment phobia. It sure sounds like avoidant dismissive. ???
Hi Contagious, I think you make sense here, I’ve realized as I’ve thought about it that dismissive avoidant is also, in my thinking anyway, the symbiotic dance that narcs and empaths do, we likely both have attachment issues at some level, the difference getting that empaths can overcome them and the narcs can’t. For me though, it is helpful to know this different label since there may be some things done to help overcome that I can then employ. HG has given many things that have helped, just knowing about it is a huge step ahead. I am not convinced that there are good therapies but it doesn’t hurt to investigate. I know HG’s work does work toward getting the ET down and allowing this to be processed with a clear mind. Learning to go to the logic is also huge. And knowing that as an empath, I should have the capacity for attachment, also helpful.
It does, Contagious.
Your Ex seems like a DA.
We empaths attract difficult individuals.
I told the exboyfriend I’m good being friends. He still sends long texts about our geekdoms a couple of times a week. Facts and everything.
Who Cares–
You said that looking back you can see themes from the beginning…what do you mean by themes? Do you mean targeting of certain traits/feelings? What were those themes? If you’re comfortable sharing that.
Hi Dani,
“I imagine that gaslighting takes place deeper into an abusive relationship, when prolonged abuse has taken its toll and the cloudiness of ET is at its worst. In those circumstances I suspect the empath still feels the lie, she just doubts her own instinct and is too worn down to fight.” — I think it starts slowly. I don’t know. I’ve not spoken to many people who’ve experienced it, and I think there are misconceptions. My experience with what I understand gaslighting to be (based on my experiences) is that it starts as denial (of one thing or another), and it’s accompanied by insults, diminution of another’s experience or feelings, insults, pity plays, and more. It all comes together in a disgusting mixture that wears a person down. I could have some misconceptions about gaslighting. I could be confusing it with other manipulations. If it isn’t too upsetting to anyone, I would be grateful to hear/read thoughts.
“Let’s face it most people lie in some form or another, what’s often more important is the reason for the lie.” — I agree most people lie. I don’t know that the reason is the most important aspect. From what I’ve seen, not everyone knows the reason for their lies. I’ve seen people deny incredible levels of evidence. Whether it’s because they’re unaware of how they look or it’s because the truth makes them look incompetent or the truth just hurts too much.
“When it comes to distressing scenes on tv, I do get upset by them yes. Some films I can’t watch, particularly if they depict mistreatment of children or animals.” Same. I think I’m a mix. I think with some things it’s my feelings and me empathizing and some is absorbing emotion. There are certain genres (and the emotions conveyed with them) that overwhelm me, and I avoid them. There are others that don’t cause the same effect.
How do your children express their feelings about you reading them? Has this changed from when they were little to when they were teens?
“I think the general perception of the Super is that the individual has higher narcissistic traits therefore those traits show more often. Personally I don’t think it’s the narcissistic traits that are most important with the SE. It’s the empathic traits that are more important and the way they are used. That’s just my view though. Others might well disagree.” — I agree in part. But I think the higher narcissistic traits play a role as well, and that the way empathic traits might work in tandem with the narcissistic ones also plays a role. That’s the way it sounds to me from HG’s descriptions. I don’t mind reading/listening to other opinions.
“I also didn’t want to book his time when other empaths might have been in greater need of it. I have since consulted with HG several times and looking back, feel it would have been beneficial to have consulted with him earlier.” — That’s comforting to me. The first sentence is a thought that has definitely been in my head. I imagine there are others who share or have shared that thought. I have the wariness, too. I feel quite certain that I could get clarity and insight on some matters with HG’s help that isn’t available anywhere else that I’ve found.
“Yes HG has addressed the misconceptions surrounding the Super Empath. At the time of my EDC a few of his YouTube videos relating to this school had not yet been released, so the kickass imagery was still alive and …kicking.” — I’ve seen the videos in my suggestions. I stay away from those as per HG already explaining it so well.
“Yes, HG knows his stuff. His understanding of empaths is both reassuring and concerning. I don’t like the feeling that I might be predictable.” — HG does indeed, and the understanding he has of all people is impressive.
“Got to keep it moving, duck, dive, change direction haha!” — The proverbial arms race between narcs and empaths…thankfully the empaths have a treacherous narc of the highest quality to assist them…if only because it furthers his goals of a legacy and the chaos amuses him. I remember, also, HG stating that it amused him to imagine the other narcs ‘stamping their feet,’ and having tantrums as they’re thwarted by his vastly superior intellect.
“I would imagine that many empaths look back at their detectors and ponder if they have changed at all. Truthseekers will tend to go that route, at least I think they would, would they?” — It would be interesting to hear from others who’ve taken the empath detector about this. Initial feelings and have you gone back and explored the answers when emotional thinking has dropped.
“It’s always better to know and fully understand your empathic make up in my view. That way you recognise your own drivers and can better see how narcs might play on them.” — Makes sense to me.
“Yes, I’m English, from Lancashire originally. I’ve moved around a lot though.” Yay, Lancashire! Red Rose!
“HG has referenced various meanings for the H and G. Hurt God was one. Probably for the same reason he likes Depeche Mode. 😜 Was Huge Gonads another? I think so haha!” Yes, HG has indeed suggested those two meanings.
Thank you for sharing the story about James. He sounds like an absolute delight. It really helped me understand.
Hi Dani,
“ I could have some misconceptions about gaslighting” Me too. I haven’t been involved in any discussions about gaslighting on the blog prior to this one. Lots about the various manipulations but not gaslighting specifically.
About lies. Most narcs certainly wouldn’t recognise their own lies, only the Greaters and Ultra. I think other categories of people do though. All kinds of reasons from self defence, not wanting to offend or cause argument, not wanting to discuss a sensitive topic through to lying just because they get away with it. The discomfort people generally experience when they lie I think might be in part what the Contagion picks up on. There’s an awkwardness there when people lie, it feels clunky, sticks out like a sore thumb. Wandering off topic there a bit.
Yes the interplay between narc and empath traits will govern the behaviour of the SE, agree. What I meant originally is that people seem to focus on the narc traits of the SE, there seems to be less discussion around the empathic traits when the subject of the SE comes up. Again, I might not have seen those threads though.
In terms of consultations, I’m glad you felt comforted by my response. No need to be wary. I’d say, be excited instead, consultations are something to look forward to.
Laughing at your arms race comment. True that. Yes, HG likes to win, removing us from the damaging influence of our respective narcs and preventing future ensnarement is done for his legacy but there’s also the winning element too I think.
If I’m the only empath that looked back on her detector answers at a later date then I’m definitely blaming those higher narcy traits!! Blameshift, rejection of accountability. Double points there!
Yes, red rose indeed. Are you from that neck of the woods also?
My kids are used to me knowing a lot about how they feel. I don’t invade privacy though, I usually let them tell me they had a bad day rather than asking why they had a bad day! The funniest part is them trying to lie. When they were younger it made me laugh but it still tickles me now they are teens. My daughter is a tougher read if I’m not concentrating. My son though is helpless trying to lie. I used to say “ Would you like to reconsider what you said there? Have another go?” Haha! My son is already half smiling before he finishes. He screams guilty ! They don’t really bother trying now. Easier just to give it to me straight. Ask me, tell me, whatever. My main aim is to prevent them feeling they need to lie to me in the first place. Easier all round.
I’m glad the James story was helpful. You got me reminiscing about our time in France, happy time in my life, I hadn’t thought about it in a while 🙂
Xx
Hi Truthseeker–
“Lots about the various manipulations but not gaslighting specifically.” — I think gaslighting is various manipulations working in tandem. To me, gaslighting is something of the whole picture and the end result…but what I currently define as the most damaging for me is the result of the denials. I’m sure gaslighting can start in other ways, too. Some denials have been subtle. Some have been very confrontational.
“About lies. Most narcs certainly wouldn’t recognise their own lies, only the Greaters and Ultra.” — Yes.
“I think other categories of people do though. All kinds of reasons from self defence, not wanting to offend or cause argument, not wanting to discuss a sensitive topic through to lying just because they get away with it.” — I disagree. I don’t think they always do. If something terrible happens to a person, there is the power to deny it. I don’t know that people are always aware when they live in a state of denial. And I don’t know that that state of denial (be it about one event or multiple) makes them a narcissist. Though, in my experience, the denial around that/those event/s does result in manipulative behaviours. I think the trigger could be emotional, and the person may be unaware. Or they may think they’re saying something good from a place of caring without seeing the pain that it causes. Maybe they don’t mind the pain the other person is in; maybe they’re oblivious to it. I don’t know. I think these behaviours can be recurrent and long-lasting regarding that/those event/s because reality is too much for that person/family unit. I could be missing the target.
“Yes the interplay between narc and empath traits will govern the behaviour of the SE, agree. What I meant originally is that people seem to focus on the narc traits of the SE, there seems to be less discussion around the empathic traits when the subject of the SE comes up. Again, I might not have seen those threads though.” — I agree with that. And I hope HG has time soon to talk a bit more about super empaths as well. Despite having read the articles and listened to videos, I still think I’m missing the full picture. I’m sure HG sees where they are, and he will address them.
“In terms of consultations, I’m glad you felt comforted by my response. No need to be wary. I’d say, be excited instead, consultations are something to look forward to.” —
“Laughing at your arms race comment. True that. Yes, HG likes to win, removing us from the damaging influence of our respective narcs and preventing future ensnarement is done for his legacy but there’s also the winning element too I think.” — Definitely, HG is a winner.
“If I’m the only empath that looked back on her detector answers at a later date then I’m definitely blaming those higher narcy traits!! Blameshift, rejection of accountability. Double points there!” — TS, for the win!
Yes, red rose indeed. Are you from that neck of the woods also? — Nope. But I know a smidgeon of history about England and Scotland…not so much about Wales, though I understand Cardiff Castle is lovely.
“My main aim is to prevent them feeling they need to lie to me in the first place. Easier all round.” — I think that’s one of the best things you can do for children.
Hi Dani,
I see your thinking on denial. People can and do live in a state of denial. It’s probably a defence mechanism. As a base example. An individual diagnosed with terminal cancer might deny their diagnosis, believe they will be cured. Likely because this enables them to cope better. Others might approach it differently, but in this case, the living in denial I think, is very much linked to a mental self defence.
Similarly, it could be argued that the empath lives in a state of denial when ensnared. She believes that things will get better, she believes the excuses she makes for the poor behaviour of the narcissist, stress at work etc. It’s cognitive dissonance but in a way it’s denial too. The empath isn’t consciously lying but rather is in denial.
Following that train of thought, the Midrangers and Lessers also are beholden to their narcissism rewriting history. A key part of the narcissistic defence is denial. If a Lower Midranger or more likely a Lesser narcissist hit me in the face I could say with certainty “You hit me”. The narcissist could deny it. He might claim he was moving an eyelash from my cheek, I slapped his hand away and caught my own cheek with my own hand. From my perspective he’s lying. He hit me and I know it. From his perspective, he didn’t hit me at all, I hurt myself. His narcissism in effect places him in a state of denial. So if he doesn’t know he is lying can I call him a liar? Damn right I can. My perspective is the majority perspective. The world runs on my perspective and not his. But I can accept it’s a blurred line. If assigning blame, or more so punishment, then in many ways the narcissist isn’t all that much different from the terminal cancer sufferer, both are living in denial.
I think for me, I separate into ‘denying something that happens’ (conscious) or ‘being in denial about something that happens’ (not conscious). In terms of living in denial I think for me it would have to be taken on a case by case basis. The reason for the denial would have to be considered if determining an outright lie or an unaware lie.
This I think is where Contagion empathy falls down. We feel a lie if it is a conscious lie, but I question if we would feel an unconscious lie, or the lie of someone in denial. Likely why the Midranger manages to get past the lie detector of the empath. Their lie is their truth so it wouldn’t necessarily ‘feel’ like a lie to us. Empaths in general are in tune to people so I think this also applies to those that don’t have Contagion in their school make up. The narcissist might call me ‘the most beautiful girl in the world’ do I truly believe that? Of course not, but I might be happy to go along with it at the time and enter into a little self denial myself! Haha!
I see what you mean, it isn’t cut and dried, there are exceptions.
Thank you for your kind words about my approach with my children. They don’t come with an instruction manual and sometimes it’s just nice to get positive feedback 🙂
I don’t know much about Wales either, which is ridiculous because it’s close to where I live now. I plan to go camping there this summer. I’d like to explore Scotland more too. I got married in Perth, but that’s as far North as I went. Something else I plan to rectify in the hopefully not too distant future!
Xx
Hi TruthSeeker,
“In this case, the living in denial I think, is very much linked to a mental self defence.” — Fair point. But sometimes that mental self defence can become mental abuse to someone else.
“I think for me, I separate into ‘denying something that happens’ (conscious) or ‘being in denial about something that happens’ (not conscious).” — It seems a logical line of division. I don’t know that one results in more abuse than the other when that denial impacts on someone else.
…Possible trigger warning (not graphic) between the asterisks READ WITH CAUTION…
*Say a father sexually abuses a child. The child goes to their mother for help. The mother denies it’s happening. She may not have seen it or seen anything she would identify as signs of it. Presumably, the mother loves the father, and the father isn’t doing anything she identifies as abusive toward her child when she can see it. The father also denies what’s happening.*
“In terms of living in denial I think for me it would have to be taken on a case by case basis. The reason for the denial would have to be considered if determining an outright lie or an unaware lie.” — Fair enough. To my thinking, the damage is the horrendous regardless of the reason.
“I don’t know much about Wales either, which is ridiculous because it’s close to where I live now. I plan to go camping there this summer. I’d like to explore Scotland more too. I got married in Perth, but that’s as far North as I went. Something else I plan to rectify in the hopefully not too distant future!” — That’ll be so much fun, camping in Wales. Exploring Scotland also sounds fun. Any particular locations you’ve considered?
Hi Dani,
I think if looking at the impact denial can have on someone else and taking the example you gave, the father is guilty, he was the abuser. His denial damages the child via the continuation of the abuse and the denial that he is abusing that child at all. The mother is not the abuser and is in a state of denial. In some ways she does more damage to the child than the father by refusing to act on the account of the child and by allowing the abuse to continue. So yes, here the denial by the two parents is equally as damaging to the child in my opinion.
When kids are involved I confess I’m not very sympathetic to the plight of the mother. In this example, I can say that she is in denial as to what is happening. I can say that she is likely trapped in an abusive relationship herself therefore deserves my sympathy and understanding. I’m afraid though in this example I can’t give it. The mother being in denial is not enough reason for me here. The job of the mother is to protect a child above all else including the husband and my empathy will not see past the damage to the innocent in that scenario, in fact my response to the mother in that particular scenario would likely be one of anger.
Places I’d like to see in Scotland. Edinburgh, I’m almost ashamed to admit that I haven’t been. Dumfries and Galloway is an area my dad really likes so I’d like to take a drive round there. Inverness and Victoria Falls. It would be nice to rent a place in the middle of nowhere and just explore.
Wales is easier, Brecon Beacons National park is quite close to me. I’d like to go back to lake Bala in Wales because I visited as a little kid and also Snowdonia National Park. I’d like to camp in Wales. At the moment the kids like their WiFi and creature comforts but if I was going without kids again, I’d take the ‘in the middle of nowhere’ option. A couple more years and I’ll have my travelling shoes back on, then I’m off haha!
Xx
Hello Truthseeker–
I agree that both parents are guilty of damage. That both denials hurt the innocent party. Only the victim can determine that the amount of hurt caused by the mother and the father. They may find one worse than the other; they may find them equal. They may go back and forth, even as they try to forget about it.
You said that you didn’t find the mother abusive for being in denial. She took the father’s side.
I’d like to run the clock forward in this example. Say we’re twenty years later. Father is dead. A prominent story runs in the news for three weeks about a father on trial accused of molesting his children. The news source the mother watches largely reports that these are false accusations. So the mother repeatedly phones the child, telling that child about this case and how horrible what is happening to this other father is. How lucky the child was to have a father who “forgave the child for what they said.” The child needs to be grateful to the father for all he did for them. (Manipulations vary dependent upon the story the news wants to sell.) When the child asks for the mother to quit, she refuses. She continues in the behavior for the duration of time that the news is reporting about it. It stops shortly afterwards. It picks up again when the mother is exposed to a police/law drama on the TV that runs several episodes with this general storyline. It again stops once the TV show moves on to a different storyline.
How do you interpret the mother’s denial now?
I don’t know if this sounds absurd. I tend to think from what I’ve heard and read here that it probably doesn’t. It happens. I don’t know how common/uncommon it is.
They sound like teens…addicted to WiFi and comforts…I think the middle of nowhere option sounds ideal. Peaceful…and if there was a lovely cabin for rent in the Highlands, sounds wonderful.
Hi Dani,
Yes, the mother took the fathers side. She took his word over that of her daughter. At this point for me, the mother is not abusive. To my mind in this situation and at this point, she is unfit. She fails the child, but I don’t see her as complicit in the abuse.
If the mother witnessed the abuse, found evidence of abuse and ignored it, saw dramatic change in the child and chose to ignore it, then for me, she then becomes complicit in the abuse. This is unclear from the example so far.
However,
When we look at the mother’s behaviour 20 years later. I would have to ask if she is a narcissist. If she is, then her motivation at that point and 20 yrs prior would be different and based on the acquisition of the Prime Aims.
The fact that the mother keeps telephoning the child when the story is in the media, suggests a trigger to events of the past. The trigger causes the hoover ( the phone call) malign in this case because the child asked her to stop. Similarly the tv series looks like a trigger which again causes a malign hoover. It isn’t malign in that the mother directly refers back and accuses the child of lying, but it is malign in that it is done in a passive aggressive way, and, there is no empathy for the discomfort of the child when the child asks her to stop referring to it. You could argue that the mother is bringing up the past to assert control and draw fuel from the child in the now.
So in this example, given the behaviour of the mother 20 yrs later, I’d have to ask if the mother was actually in denial about the abuse in the first place or later, but rather was selfishly ignoring it because it suited her to do so in terms of the Prime Aims. For example, staying in the marriage because it afforded a more comfortable lifestyle, at the expense of a child who she has no emotional empathy for, whilst maintaining a public facade of ‘respectability.’ Later, bringing up the past to acquire the Prime Aims in the present.
Irrespective of whether the mother is in fact a narcissist herself, the repeated phone calls and the repeated bringing up the past that the mother engages in 20 years later demonstrates lack of empathy for the child, particularly in light of the fact that the child has shown discomfort with the behaviour of the mother and asked her to stop.
At best the mother is unfit. At worst she is a narcissist and therefore highly likely to be complicit in the abuse.
From the example provided and admittedly with limited evidence, the mother sounds like a narcissist to me.
Clarifying what the mother is, narcissist, empath or normal would give greater insight into the motivation behind the mother’s state of apparent denial I think.
Xx
Hello Truthseeker–
“…saw dramatic change in the child and chose to ignore it, then for me, she then becomes complicit in the abuse…” — That is fair. In regard to “dramatic change”…what other factors could be at play that the mother could attribute these changes to? What if the child is transitioning from primary to secondary school a time which coincides (generally speaking) with puberty? For that matter, the mother could have grown up during a time when the addressing of mental health concerns was handled differently, do to it being seen as more stigmatic (not that it isn’t still stigmatized, just that the stigma is reduced from past decades). The bad behavior to the daughter could be occurring at the same time the mother is experiencing a renewal of a golden period ((if the father is a narc) he could be a perverted normal or narcissistic person). I think plenty of excuses/explanations could be found.
This is unclear from the example so far. – Agreed. I find life has little clarity or maybe I consider too many different contingencies. Maybe I just want to believe that all people are redeemable on some level.
“When we look at the mother’s behaviour 20 years later. I would have to ask if she is a narcissist.” — In light of the abuse from the father being so blatant…what do you think is the likelihood that other abuses from the mother could or would be overlooked or not as noticeable in light of the other?
Could thinking that her child has been abused by a man she loved and trusted reduce the emotional empathy of a normal or empathic mother to the point that she behaves this way twenty years later when exposed to a trigger?
“You could argue that the mother is bringing up the past to assert control and draw fuel from the child in the now.” — You certainly could.
“…the repeated phone calls and the repeated bringing up the past that the mother engages in 20 years later demonstrates lack of empathy for the child, particularly in light of the fact that the child has shown discomfort…” — Agreed.
“Clarifying what the mother is, narcissist, empath or normal would give greater insight into the motivation behind the mother’s state of apparent denial I think.” — Highly likely. Reality is more complicated than my mix and match example that kept only the most basic details relating to the denial. For me, it’s difficult to sort out who is responsible for what. What could be empathy toward one person while demonstrating a lack of empathy towards another…it leaves me deeply confused.
Hi Dani,
I think as you say there are so many reasons that we could attribute to both mother and child when exploring reasons for behaviour in the example.
I remember during my own ensnarement, all the ‘what ifs’ I came up with as possible reasons for the narcissist’s behaviour towards me. We get bogged down in possibilities. We want an explanation and we rattle through all kinds of theories trying to find an answer. We want in many ways to see the good in people and often this confuses the issue more.
I remember filling in the narc detector and really wanting to say what I thought, I wanted to justify his actions and justify my own.
We come at things from the wrong direction. We try to explain the behaviours in the context of our own world view. The narcissist doesn’t share the same world view though so our reasoning and explanations could never have been correct.
So what does the logical mind do? Where does HG begin? He begins by determining what the person is. Is the individual a narcissist? If yes then the motivation for behaviour is based on the narcissistic perspective. If not then the majority perspective applies.
So in the example. We need to understand first what each person is. If the mother is a narcissist then her motivation is clear. If she isn’t, at that point we can look at other explanations for her behaviour using our own world view.
There can be many reasons why people lie or are in denial. If those people are close to us, then recognising the lie and considering the reasons for it is likely beneficial. If we understand then we are better placed to support. If not, maybe sometimes we don’t need to know. I agree the world really can be a confusing place and I’m starting to be more selective in terms of where I spend my energy in terms of understanding!
In answer to questions posed in the example.
There could be other factors influencing a dramatic change in a child’s behaviour. For me though, given the child confided abuse to the mother who ignored it, then the child changes dramatically I would find it difficult not to link the two. It also of course depends on the relationship between mother and child. How well does she understand her own child etc? You could also ask why the mother didn’t seek help, advice or a second opinion from a doctor or medical professional. Instead she simply dismisses the claim of the child in favour of the word of the father. As you said, there are many possible reasons for the mother’s behaviour including the possibility she is also a victim of abuse herself.
In terms of the child. If the child was suffering sexual abuse from the father, then I imagine emotional abuse from the mother might well be overlooked yes. I suspect that living in an environment like that, the focus of the child would be targeted at the most immediate and impactful danger. The greater threat. I don’t know this, but estimate it might well be the case.
Could thinking that her child had been abused by a man she loved reduce emotional empathy for the child when exposed to a trigger? If the mother is an empath I can’t imagine the mother blaming the child. I also can’t imagine her emotional empathy being so reduced that she intentionally causes discomfort on a repeated basis by bringing up the past. I don’t believe an empath would continue with the behaviour when asked to stop either. The empath is more likely to blame herself than the child. She’s also more likely to want to address it openly rather than alluding to it vaguely on a repeated basis. Similar the normal. The child sits well within the range of empathy for a normal. So the behaviour 20 years later points strongly to the behaviour of a narcissist in my view.
Could an empath demonstrate empathy for one person but not another? Yes. The non empathy would be a defensive response. The boundary line crossed and the flick of the empathy switch from ‘on’ to off. I’ve done this on several occasions and there is no way back from that point. I would find it impossible to do with my own children though, no matter what. So in context of this example I would find that unlikely.
In terms of wanting to believe in redemption for all. I’m afraid I don’t believe in that concept. Some actions are beyond my ability to forgive. I’m ok with that. I’m not proud of it particularly, some might say I’m too quick to dismiss or cut away. They might be right, but, I think we can only do what feels right for us in each situation as it arises.
An interesting conversation Dani 🙂
Xx
I’m still stuck on this point:
The mother taking the father’s side. Taking his word over her daughter’s and that not being complicit in the abuse. I don’t know that you need to witness the abuse or have evidence of it where a child is concerned. The denial (to me) makes her complicit.
My assessment at this point (subject to further information) is:
If the mother is a narcissist she is complicit in the abuse.
If she is not a narcissist she is still complicit in the abuse through denial as a form of neglect of her parental responsibility.
I don’t believe in personal denial as a valid defence in this situation (currently).
You raised valid points for consideration, NA good to read them.
NA,
I agree, parents, empaths and narcs alike, are complicit when there is abuse happening to their children, regardless of the source, and they don’t stop it. It is part of a parents primary responsibility to the child(ren) to protect them and even more so when it is happening in their home. I do not accept or understand how both parents are not held accountable when abuse has happened right under their nose.
My dad did not know what my mom was doing, my siblings hated him as much as her for his negligence, I did not, maybe I “needed” one parent to “love” me, I was in denial I guess. They were not.
As a parent myself, I have had to accept responsibility for the places I may have overlooked abuse from my ex to my children, and do what I can to make that right.
I agree that personal denial is not a defense. And also with Witch, that it doesn’t matter if the denial is from an empath or a narc, the result to the child is the same.
Hi NA,
I’m kind of stuck on it too. I know what my reaction would be in the situation but that’s mine not the mother’s so I struggle to separate the two and assess it fairly.
In terms of complicit, I think it means different things to different people. The literal meaning is “association or involvement in a wrongful act.” So in this sense the mother is physically present, she’s in the family home where the abuse takes place, so she’s involved and also associated. Therefore she is complicit in a literal sense.
The figurative meaning is where I was coming from. “Helping to commit a crime or do wrong.” I don’t see her as actively helping at that point, or rather she isn’t partaking in the abuse herself. It isn’t that she believes it’s happening and does nothing to stop it. She is in denial and doesn’t believe it’s happening at all. This is why I class her as unfit rather than complicit at this point. She isn’t knowingly contributing to the abuse, or trying to help the father abuse.
There’s a limit to that though for me. We don’t know how her relationship is with the child, why she is inclined not to believe the child and take the word of the father instead. But in any case, as a parent she has a responsibility as you say. So the child should be taken to a doctor or specialist, the child’s account should be investigated at the very least, ideally the child should have been removed from the father immediately; her duty is to protect the child, not the father.
The child’s behaviour alters markedly. The mother could put it down to puberty, change of school, all kinds of reasons but there comes a point where not believing / being in denial becomes wilful disbelief. In my mind that’s when she becomes complicit, as guilty as the father. She wilfully refuses to believe the abuse is taking place despite evidence to the contrary which supports the account of the child. The mother prefers to risk letting abuse continue as opposed to removing herself and her child from the family home.
I do find it tough to draw the line between what I see as genuine denial and wilful denial here I must admit, so I see your point on it too NA, very much so. I have limited sympathy for the mother in the example, my sympathy lies with the child, which is probably indicative in itself.
Agree, if a narcissist then the mother is complicit because either way, the motivation would be self serving in terms of staying or leaving and in terms of the denial.
Xx
Truthseeker–
“We want in many ways to see the good in people and often this confuses the issue more.” — Agreed.
“I remember filling in the narc detector and really wanting to say what I thought, I wanted to justify his actions and justify my own.” — I understand doing so, spending large amounts of time trying to figure it out and then explain. Did it seem easy to do? Did your justifications feel logical?
“The narcissist doesn’t share the same world view though so our reasoning and explanations could never have been correct.” — Agreed.
“If not then the majority perspective applies.” — I understand what is meant by this is the societal majority perspective…but in the completely new scenario (Scenario 2) of say…a two parent, three child family where four have no sense of boundary recognition…and the fifth is tired of all the violations and asks for them to stop over and over. Let’s assume for the sake of simplicity that the parents are both MMR narcissists, the oldest child is old enough to know better but doesn’t care (narcissism already formed most likely), the middle teenaged child was born to be a feisty super empath who frequently tries to assert boundaries and complains about the lack of respect (I’ll leave the reader to imagine what boundaries might be wanted) [And this uppity super empath…keeps arguing because they don’t know what they’re dealing with and they’ve not yet discoverws HG’s work], and the third child is three. In this case, who has the majority perspective? Who feels like the problem? Who could even, quite reasonably via a majority household perspective, be termed the problem? Who is more likely to feel like the problem and be scape-goated? Who is likely to be disbelieved if seeking outside help when three others disagree about what happens, due to it threatening their control to be told that their behavior is wrong? To my thinking, someone can be raised with a warped perspective of what the ‘majority’ is.
There can be many reasons why people lie or are in denial. — Agreed.
“If those people are close to us, then recognising the lie and considering the reasons for it is likely beneficial. If we understand then we are better placed to support. If not, maybe sometimes we don’t need to know.” — When that lie/denial results in triggered abusive behaviors from multiple people who’re close but cannot see the abuse for whatever the reason is…it might help.
How well does she understand her own child etc? You could also ask why the mother didn’t seek help, advice or a second opinion from a doctor or medical professional. — The mother may have a great deal of pride. That pride could result in not wanting to admit that her daughter needs more help than she can provide and thinking that she understands her child well.
“The child sits well within the range of empathy for a normal.” — How have you decided this? I don’t feel I’ve said enough about the child to know.
“Could an empath demonstrate empathy for one person but not another? Yes. The non empathy would be a defensive response. The boundary line crossed and the flick of the empathy switch from ‘on’ to off. I’ve done this on several occasions and there is no way back from that point. I would find it impossible to do with my own children though, no matter what. So in context of this example I would find that unlikely.” — I would value your thoughts on another example given your statement here. I’m just not ready to read a response to it.
In terms of wanting to believe in redemption for all. I’m afraid I don’t believe in that concept. Some actions are beyond my ability to forgive. — I don’t know that I’ve forgiven them so much as I’ve put up with them for years. And I agree, there are some people whose actions have crossed me to the point that I don’t forgive them.
“I’m not proud of it particularly, some might say I’m too quick to dismiss or cut away. They might be right, but, I think we can only do what feels right for us in each situation as it arises.” — I’m quick to dismiss new people, too. I think if you’re doing what’s right for you, and you’re not abusing anyone, then it’s fine.
I’m also finding it very interesting. There’s an enormous difference between the perspective of someone who has been abused and someone who hasn’t.
(Also, been meaning to tell you…I love your Eye of Horus image!)
Hi Dani,
I was moved to respond to your comments. I hope that’s ok. I’d like to share my experience in order to help you gain some clarity. Both of my parents are narcissists. I wasn’t sexually abused but I was physically abused by my father. He would use his fists to discipline. My mother was complicit. She saw it and often did nothing about it. Every once in awhile she would yell at him to stop. It was few and far between though. My mother was neglectful but never laid a hand on me. She had no empathy for me or my siblings. If she did, she wouldn’t have allowed these things to happen. Even as I child, I protected my brothers. My older brother is mentally disabled. I would often take the beating for him. Whoever my father could grab first is who got it. An empath will sacrifice themselves to protect the people they care about it. I did that even as a child.
Denial and gaslighting go hand in hand. I made excuses for my parents all the time. My father is from South America. I would say this is how he was taught to discipline. With my mother, I contributed to her mental illness. It wasn’t until I came to narcsite and found Mr. Tudor that I realized it was narcissism and I had been gaslit and conditioned my whole entire life.
I’m also married to a narcissist and I have two adult children. Neither of them were physically or sexually abused it. He was an absentee father and he would criticize and verbally abuse but he never laid a hand on them. I’ve had numerous conversations with my children about the subject. I’ve also apologized to them. I was in denial about him too. I just thought he was limited and didn’t know any better. I don’t want to say I was complicit, but on some level I probably was because one of my children is a narcissist, confirmed by Mr. Tudor.
As for pride, I’m high in pride too. The way works for me is if I see an injustice happening to someone I care about, I want to protect them. For me, its they don’t get to hurt something that’s mine. I know that’s a narcissistic but pride is a narcissistic trait.
When my husband would start with one of his verbal attacks, I would take the brunt of it. Just like I did when my father would go after my brother. My children did witness him deflect, deny and gaslight me. I guess that does make me complicit.
I can’t turn off my empathy for my children and if my children had come to me and told me they were being sexually abused, all hell would have broke loose.
The first 6 months or so that I was here on narcsite, all I did was read. The truthseeker in me needed to gain understanding first. I suggest reading, Fuel, Fury, Manipulated, Pipelines & Sitting Target. These books are a good starting point.
Hello NarcAngel–
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it.
I’m unsure of the answer. It helps to read different perspectives.
Is there anything you can think of that would not make the mother complicit to your mind at this time?
-Dani
Hi Dani,
I’m coming to this conversation a little late, hope that’s okay. But I have the exact situation that’s been discussed in my life.
A woman with 3 little girls, 10, 5 and 3, came into my uncle’s life. The woman and my uncle marry. All three of the girls suffer sexual abuse by him, some known at the time, because they told others, sadly none that could help, and nothing was done. Some known many years later, when my uncle ended up in jail after being convicted, his wife being found to be not complicit by the legal system. The daughters hate their mother as much as their step father. Who was right in their judgement of her, the legal system that found her not complicit or the daughters that she didn’t help? Their house was tiny, the bedrooms right next to each other, how could she not have known? She is currently on her deathbed with days to live, she is a person that the world will be well to be rid of.
Dani
I considered several possibilities that could be offered before commenting, and am open to other input, but nothing to this point has changed my stance.
Factors considered that likely affect different perspectives and full disclosure:
If one is a mother (I am not).
If one is a love devotee (I am not).
If one is an empath (I am).
The type of empath one is.
If one has been subject to sexual abuse or inappropriate behaviour and been dismissed (I have).
Hi Dani,
In terms of the NDC, it is easy to complete in that the structure forces you to answer specific questions, it isn’t open structure where you describe your concerns. There is opportunity for you to describe behaviours that you regard as being problematic, but it is confined to just one open section. The format is helpful in terms of forcing factual information only, without opinion as to the reasons for it. What you end up with is a very clear picture of how the individual behaves, there in black and white so just completing it affords a lot of clarity.
During ensnarement I attempted to explain the behaviours of the narcissist. I thought at one point he was bipolar but he didn’t quite fit. In many ways I was logical in my approach but I also had too many what ifs. What if he misinterpreted what I said, so responded defensively? What if he is under stress at work? The usual reasons that an empath will come up with to explain the erratic behaviour. So my own reasoning felt logical, but in my heart of hearts I also knew that despite these reasons, the behaviour as a whole was unacceptable.
Scenario 2. The empath child holds the majority perspective in terms of society as a whole. No matter what the narcissist parents might tell her, how they make her feel, how they manipulate and cause her to question her own boundaries, the child is the healthy one, the other family members are disordered. Requesting privacy would be an example. The empath child is correct to expect privacy in her own space, the narcissist family members won’t respect privacy ever, because they are incapable of respecting boundaries. There is no way that privacy should be violated. Normal people respect boundaries ( to different degrees admittedly) this is a majority perspective and the empath shares it.
In this home environment, the empath will likely be made to feel as though she is the problem, her expectations as to privacy etc unreasonable. Depending on the school and cadre of empath, the external environment, interveners etc she might well believe that her perspective is the minority one, that she is at fault, ‘uppity’ etc. she might not. She might believe some criticisms, but disregard others. She might see the behaviours of family members as wrong, unreasonable, she might have zero respect for them so pays no attention to their views at all. Lots of variables but yes, a narcissist would invalidate any request that interferes with the acquisition of the Prime Aims. The school of narcissist would dictate how they would go about doing that but no narcissist has respect for boundaries. The empath child would be fighting a losing battle there.
Happy to answer your additional question whenever you are ready to ask it x. Bear in mind, mine is just one view, the way I look at things may well be different to other empaths, maybe not, but I’ll give my honest thoughts on it. 🙂
Yes, the mother might well have high pride and feel uncomfortable asking for help. Pride is my strongest narcissistic trait, I’m not very good at asking for help either! For me though, in this scenario, pride is not enough. When it comes to a scenario as serious as this, and it involves a child, pride would not be enough to deter me from seeking professional help. The child comes first. Pride would fall by the wayside, protection would take precedent. I accept that’s my personal opinion with pride sitting amongst a variety of other traits, but, for me, pride is not enough reason to do nothing.
“The child sits well within the range of empathy for a normal.” Sorry! Unclear wasn’t it? Empaths have a broad range of emotional empathy for a large number of people. Normals have a narrower range of emotional empathy, so, family members, close friends, neighbours, people they work with or see regularly for example. The emotional empathy for these people is strong though, arguably as strong as that of the empath. So in the example, if the mother was a normal not an empath, then the child falls comfortably within the range of emotional empathy for the mother. The mother if a normal would therefore have strong emotional empathy for her child, similar to that of the empath. This again leads me to reason that the mother is more likely to be a narcissist or possibly narcissistic.
Awww, thank you. I like the symbolism of the Eye of Horus. I’m such an empath sometimes! Haha!
Xx
Hi Dani,
“In terms of the NDC…What you end up with is a very clear picture of how the individual behaves, there in black and white so just completing it affords a lot of clarity.” — Did you find it triggering at all? To utilize a brief “Frozen 2” moment…don’t go to deep or you’ll drown.
“The usual reasons that an empath will come up with to explain the erratic behaviour. So my own reasoning felt logical, but in my heart of hearts I also knew that despite these reasons, the behaviour as a whole was unacceptable.” — I think that’s where I am with my situation at this point…
“Scenario 2. The empath child would be fighting a losing battle there.” — Indeed….
“Happy to answer your additional question whenever you are ready to ask it x. Bear in mind, mine is just one view, the way I look at things may well be different to other empaths, maybe not, but I’ll give my honest thoughts on it. 🙂” — You have a selection of the basic traits, etc. I’ve been looking for to give me an opinion about this matter. I would enjoy hearing what ANYONE else has to say. There are a variety people here with a range of experiences dealing with abuse. More than I’ve knowingly encountered in another setting. Goes with the territory. I’ve gotten a great deal from my conversations here.
“I accept that’s my personal opinion with pride sitting amongst a variety of other traits, but, for me, pride is not enough reason to do nothing.” — I’m sure that a variety of traits are at play for the mother in this scenario.
“The mother if a normal would therefore have strong emotional empathy for her child, similar to that of the empath. This again leads me to reason that the mother is more likely to be a narcissist or possibly narcissistic.” — Makes sense.
Hi Leigh,
“I was moved to respond to your comments. I hope that’s ok.” — I’m grateful that you responded. Everyone has their own perspective and experiences, and hearing the different ways people think about something as serious as what I said is so helpful for me. I greatly appreciate it.
I’m so sorry for everything that you’ve been through, and I hope that you’re healing now. I’ve not been in a position like the one you were in, with your father’s temper and fists. I rarely encountered physical violence in that form. I’m glad that your older brother had you there to help.
“I can’t turn off my empathy for my children and if my children had come to me and told me they were being sexually abused, all hell would have broke loose.” — I understand. I’ve worked in public schools, and I have the same protective instinct for every child that was within the walls where I worked. And if I saw them out in my community, I would still feel the same for them today, though I don’t see them daily anymore.
Thank you for the recommendations. I have read “Manipulated.” It was rather eye-opening and uncomfortable, but it has helped me to have words for the behaviors I see. I’m morbidly curious by what HG says at the end…that he could write “Manipulated II” with more examples…or he might keep those to himself…
I hope all is going well for you.
Hi Dani,
Thank you for your kind comments. But its ok, I’m good. You don’t need to feel sorry for me. Plus my pride can’t handle it. I don’t feel like a victim in the least. I was sharing to give you a little clarity as to how an empath would react, especially with there own children.
You say you have that protective instinct yourself for children that aren’t yours. Imagine now if it is one of your children. Mr. Tudor has taught us to “Go to the evidence.” If this woman had empathy for her daughter, she wouldn’t have allowed it to happen. Therefore, if you go to the evidence, since she allowed it to happen, she doesn’t have empathy for her child.
Let’s just say for the sake of argument, that the mother isn’t a narcissist. Does it matter? She’s clearly toxic and didn’t protect her daughter. For me, whether someone is a narcissist or not isn’t relevant. We have the right to say who we want to keep in our lives. When my father died, I hadn’t talked to him in years. I didn’t know anything about narcissism at that point. But I made a decision that I didn’t want him in my life. It was very similar with my mother too. I would limit my time with her. Since learning about narcissism, I’ve really limited my time with her. I haven’t seen her in 3 years. I only have short phone calls with her once a month or so. And she calls me, I don’t call her.
I don’t feel hate for my parents. I don’t forgive them either though. Its a state of neutral. Even talking about them now doesn’t anger me anymore. Believe it or not, I even have a little gratitude for them. They did give me life. But its ok to say, you don’t want them in your life and you don’t have to feel guilty about it either.
The empath and trait detectors are fantastic ways to understand yourself. I highly recommend them. Doing the narc detector will also give you clarity. The narc detector is incredibly easy to do but it can be triggering especially if its someone you care about. When I did my daughters. I knew it once I completed it. Mr. Tudor confirmed it for me and gave me her school and cadre.
The rest of the books I suggested may be uncomfortable to read as well but they are so important to your understanding.
I hope you get the answers you need. You deserve that.
Hi AV,
It’s never too late to join a conversation.
Those poor girls…I know where they were coming from…trying to get help and getting nothing…
“The daughters hate their mother as much as their step father.” — I can understand their feelings. I don’t know that I would say, at this time, that I hate those who abused me. When I’m angrier because of what I’m going to call a hoover (because I don’t have a better word for it)…that changes temporarily. But most times I just want them to be different or I want them to be absent from my life. But I can’t fault others for saying they hate those that abuse them or that did nothing while it happened.
Who was right in their judgement of her, the legal system that found her not complicit or the daughters that she didn’t help? — I don’t know. I’m glad that the daughters have at least a little justice, with him in jail.
“Their house was tiny, the bedrooms right next to each other, how could she not have known?” — I can only guess that it was a choice to not know, assuming she wasn’t a workoholic.
NA–
It’s completely fair for nothing to have yet changed your perspective.
“Factors considered that likely affect different perspectives and full disclosure:
If one is a mother (I am not).
If one is a love devotee (I am not).
If one is an empath (I am).
The type of empath one is.
If one has been subject to sexual abuse or inappropriate behaviour and been dismissed (I have).” — Definitely a factor that gives one a strong opinion. I’m not sure what is worse than trying to get help for an issue like this and being dismissed.
All very valid points…Some I check and some I don’t/don’t know via impartial outside evaluation.
Thank you for sharing.
Hello Dani,
No, I didn’t find any aspect of the NDC triggering. I felt it comforting more than anything else. I didn’t have to think about it anymore. I didn’t have to turn it around in my head whilst playing Devil’s Advocate for the narc. I just had to answer the questions and list out behaviours that concerned me. The logic of the process settled me. I also had confidence that HG would make the correct call. He would see through the fog and draw the correct conclusion. I was tired of debating it with myself. I was very similar with the NDC for my mum. I hadn’t debated it for as long, there was no emotional investment, but I wanted it done, confirmed, off the table.
I wasn’t triggered by the results either. Again the delivery suited me. I’m very much, “Give it to me straight, I don’t want a gentle tone, I want facts and I want to know how you arrived at the conclusion.” So the process suited me, factual and a relief to stop turning it over in my head.
I’m glad you are finding the blog helpful. When I arrived the Ultra channel wasn’t up and running. There were still some older videos available on the original Knowing the Narcissist channel but the blog was my main resource and source of support. You’re in the right place Dani, you’ll get your answers.
Xx
Hi Leigh–
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it.
“The empath and trait detectors are fantastic ways to understand yourself. I highly recommend them.” — I’ve been thinking about them.
“The rest of the books I suggested may be uncomfortable to read as well but they are so important to your understanding.” — I’m planning to buy them.
“I hope you get the answers you need. You deserve that.” — Thank you.
Hi Dani,
I just wanted to tell you one other thing. Mr. Tudor gives us an amazing gift. He provides us with a key to understanding many human behaviors. Once you have that key, its amazing how clear everything becomes.
Good luck to you on your journey.
Truthseeker, Dani, how are you 🙂
These days I have learnt (the hard way) that some empathic people also routinely gaslight and stonewall.
They are called Dismissive-Avoidants. But they ONLY do this whenever a person tries a deeper connection with them, a romantic connection (big difference from narcissists). Afraid of their own feelings and afraid of letting the other person down. They don’t usually dismiss lighter friendships and can have many friends, fun activities and cool jobs/career.
It is SOLELY their spouse, and I guess their children too, who suffer.
Usually dismissive-avoidants had a dominating narcissistic parent and the DA got very shy and withdrawn about their own emotions, when growing up and as their brain evolved.
My guess is that the avoidant felt as though he needed to be the solid rock for his parents, smiling, seeming strong and kind, not affected by them neglecting their son. A survival strategy.
I was very taken by reading about this, and understood that this was my exboyfriend’s life and situation (we met again a few montessori ago after 22 years apart). Often some of us empaths are drawn to all kinds of difficult people in need, not just narcissists.
With a lot of therapy they sometimes get well, but until they learn to acknowledge their feelings, DAs will evade and stonewall/gaslight, in certain situations.
Hi AC
I have also read about dismissive avoidant behaviours and found it quite interesting. Of course, just as with other behaviours, there are many conflicting opinions. It appears one of those labels that can have much overlap (like the Borderline) and blurs the line into narcissism, making it a difficult (for most) determination.
Yes, NA, there is absolutely the blurring of line into the Middle Midrange narcissist and to the Borderline empath, at least in the Fearful-Avoidant personality. Suspicion, euphoria and drama.
With the Dismissive-Avoidant, though, these fellows have the constant need to instead keep topics light, and smile, (I am so drawn to this), they often have interesting geekdoms and I truly share some geekdoms so I usually end up talking with DAs, and they find me.
Problem is, they don’t want to go deeper than surface level, only doing cool activities, with friends, or the spouse.
They haven’t really learned to name their own feelings, life taught them to not ask for help, which makes many of them stay single. With help or therapy and a very patient spouse I heard some DAs do manage to find a partner/have kids.
To complicate matters, some narcissists are Dismissive-Avoidants. But many DAs are not narcs. Quite easy to notice the difference. The empathic ones treat you the same way when the two of you are alone, as when the two of you are surrounded by others. Also they don’t hoover after the relationship ended.
DAs constantly FOMO and triangulate and stonewall when someone tries to get near. With time though, they start trusting that person.
But HG is Spot On with the title “Why am I drawn to toxic behaviours?”
Omg, the initial paragraph made me doubt, I hate small talk. The rest of it cleared it all up, this is me. Ugh. Are narcs drawn to this? Mine seemed to love it. Does it make narcs my choice also, that symbiotic thing? Ugh. Thanks AC, this is good to know and gives direction for me.
Hi AC,
Lovely to see you, it feels like a while since we last spoke. I confess to not knowing a great deal about attachment styles. I sometimes get video suggestions about it on YouTube, I’ll take a listen next time.
How you describe your ex boyfriend is interesting. Having a narc parent I can see how that might fit with what you describe as a DA attachment style. Did he receive a formal diagnosis? Or is it a self diagnosis on his part?
Xx
TS, hello there! : – )
The Dismissive-Avoidant thing is just something I discovered. 22 years ago (then both in our 20s) I just got the impression, since he was the one who found me, that he was just being such an understanding gentleman about my physical shyness.We basically watched movies, holding hands, and that’s it.
But now 22 years later I put the pieces together. Through the years I became much more extroverted with my emotions, as well as physically. But he never did. I guess. There have been some dating on his part but as I understand it never lasting more than 6 or 7 months. He also seems to live in the same apartment as when he was 23, and works in the same little shop as back then, with I guess some of the very same ppl.
Typically a DA will find ways to seem interesting and strong. Instead of saying to a dating partner ‘I m a bit shy around intimacy, feelings’ they will refer to some cool network or organisation they need to attend to this weekend instead of the date. No vulnerabilities shown. Many DAs will never even mention having a cold or a fever.
It is always some cool event they need to attend.
So he just fits into these criteria, I don’t know of any diagnosis. This ex of mine might be an “ordinary guy” and I am mistaken.
Hope you and yours are having some good times, TS!
Hello AC,
Thank you for explaining further, I see what you mean now, given your explanation of a DA attachment style, your ex boyfriend does seem to fit doesn’t he?
I couldn’t help but think how sweet that sounded, sitting together watching movies and holding hands, no expectation, just sitting.
I have thought similar about people that used to live close by when I was younger. I was moving around, living in different places, then I would go back home to visit my parents and I’d go back to my old stomping ground, my old house, friends houses, the pub I worked in etc. I would see the same guy, on the same night sitting on the same bar stool in the same pub. It felt strange to me. I was somehow changed and yet going back, it was all still there, time ticking on, but things just the same seemingly as I had left them.
There is a certain comfort to it in a way, their lives no better or worse, just, different. Your ex might well find comfort in the familiar and the routine, I almost envy that mindset, but it isn’t me. Travel does change people and I think it makes you realise how small the world actually is.
It was really noticeable when I lived in SC and would travel home. It felt like I was stepping between two entirely different worlds in one sense, but they were still so close in another.
I hope your ex is happy with his life – gentlemen are hard to find – there’s a lot to be said for the familiar. It would be sad if a DA attachment style prevented his life from being different though. If wanted something different but couldn’t face a change. Strange when you think of people in your past ….
Xx
Hi AC, nice to see you! Wow, this is interesting information. I am going to do some studying on the types of “avoidants”. I’ll need to find some of FYC’s info regarding this and brush up.
I have recently come to the realization that a lot of my part in my ensnarements was that I was not honest about what was taking place. I believe some of this was due to being afraid of my own feelings and I know for a fact that I don’t let people too close. I am learning to do this, slowly and very carefully, but it is a process for sure. It involves realizing I have an emotion, allowing myself to feel it, or not, naming it if I can, understanding why I’m having it and who has influenced it. Then considering whether or not I trust them, deciding to share it or not, does it matter enough to share etc. It is really a big process but I’m so happy that it’s happening and taking the time to sort through all the steps is a good thing to do. It is helping me realize who is safe, in my mind, and who isn’t. If I don’t feel I can share with someone close to me, I need to decide whether I want to overcome that, or if I can, or if I’m better letting that relationship go away. It can get very messy, I don’t always like the process but I love the outcomes and that I’m able to do it. Thank you for your comment.
Hello and thank you, AV. Always nice talking to you
Well it seems Dismissive Avoidants don’t like making decisions in relationships. Male DAs feel strong shame for this and try to hide it in different ways. One example of many: We went to the Geek café I had suggested. About to walk in he said, ‘Well on this street there is also Bakery X and Restaurant Z, you know, those are nice!’
I smiled and said ‘We can go where you decide 🙂” because I was not familiar with that street.
He immediately went into the Geek café I had suggested, not even waiting for me. Without a word.
I wondered to myself why he had suggested anything at all to then just forget about it the next second.
This is a pattern of his behaviour. Not allowing himself to make choices and decisions, but also always shamefully try to hide this fact, by pretending to decide something.
When DAs were children they learned to outsorce decisions. Parents or life always in some stealth way punished the child for every decision they ever made. All this when the brain was evolving.
There has often been shaming of men who want someone else to take the lead, I gather.
If you feel you might have dismissive avoidance or like many of us, not knowing our own needs, then I guess you are doing great healing by naming your feelings, I heard it works wonders, but I’m afraid “I come from Barcelona” when it comes to psychological sciences in general.
Hi AC, I commented already about this on a reply you made to NA and then found this comment from you, apologies. But to go a bit further, the paragraph you wrote about us praying to outsource decisions, in my case we were not allowed to outsource even, all decisions were made for us. And yes, there was punishment for attempting to make a decision on our own.
Once a midwife asked me to write my meds that my then husband could meet during the baby’s delivery. I didn’t even know I could have a bed, that I could ask him to meet it, that I could expect him to do so, that a woman in labor could have a need at all. I didn’t come up with anything, it just left me puzzled, what was I missing? Why did other women clearly have needs and expectations and I had none? It confused me. I didn’t need anything from him, not really ever. Except that addiction thing. I think I have figured out why.
And to think of going deeper, being truly vulnerable with someone, it’s probably not going to happen.
Barcelona must be a great place of learning then! 🙂
Thank you again AC.
Learning* to outsource decisions, not praying to do so.
Hello AV,
I have questions…
When you say, “…a lot of my part in my ensnarements was that I was not honest about what was taking place,” do you mean you weren’t being honest with yourself (because you didn’t know what you were feeling)? Or that you weren’t being honest with the other person involved (unintentionally)? A combination of both?
When you look back at those relationships, can you puzzle out what you might have been feeling at different points?
“Then considering whether or not I trust them, deciding to share it or not, does it matter enough to share etc.” By “them” do you mean trusting your feelings or trusting the other person in your relationship?
“If I don’t feel I can share with someone close to me, I need to decide whether I want to overcome that, or if I can, or if I’m better letting that relationship go away.” — Have you noticed any trends in how you make that decision? When you decide you want to overcome this inability to share, is there anything specific that helps you say, ‘Yes, I can.” or “Hell no” or just letting the relationship slip away?
Hope all is going well for you.
Hi Dani, I like your approach “I have questions…” 😃 Very direct, I like that.
I was not honest with myself, him, anyone who questioned anything. I think it was a combination of not feeling my feelings clearly, not understanding them, and also FOMO. If I passed him up, I may not get another man as good as he, this was of course during the love-bombing stage. Then it morphed into not seeing the truth because it hurt too much, so I became an ostrich and stuffed any feelings that dared break out. Still dishonest.
I felt fear of losing him, terrifying fear, which I think is what caused me to be dishonest. I felt at times depressed also. And he delighted in making me angry when he could. I also remember feeling resigned at times and resolute or determined at times. These may have been where I lived for most of the relationship. No joy, very little happiness, no faith or hope that things would improve. I did dream about the time when we’d have an empty nest and really be able to bond, that got me through a lot of long days and nights. I believed we were in the most difficult part of our lives, raising kids, career etc and that things would be better once things could slow down.
The “them” refers to those who may have brought about or influenced an emotion in me. Most haven’t been trusted enough or mattered enough to me to share with them. Sometimes this is because I don’t think they would understand my excitement, or care. Sometimes it’s because they are whiners, not doers. Sometimes I don’t want to explain why it’s important for me to feel feelings and so on. Many are just innocent bystanders, haha, and I don’t want them that close.
My determining factor is pretty basic, if it is one of my kids, I will overcome it, if it’s my mom or another known narc, “Hell no”. If it’s anyone outside of these two categories, it is measured against the trust needed, ie how deep the relationship is at that point and do I care about deepening it further? If I do, I look at why, if I don’t, there is no sharing. If I look at why, I look at the possibilities with the sharing, can I handle it if they reject what I’ve shared, is it worth the risk. You see, my parents rejected all sharing of emotions, or worse and more typically, mocked and/or punished such sharing. So it is usually easier to let someone go.
If I decide to go for it, it is not a problem, I know what I will do in the case of a bad outcome. I walk away. If not physically at that moment, due to something preventing me leaving, like a tornado etc, they are done in my life, they just haven’t realized it yet.
Fwiw, I do treasure those people who I come across who actually want to truly know me and who I discover to be safe. Those are just few and far between.
Thank you for asking. I hope you’re doing well also!
Hello AV–
Thank you for answering. And glad you enjoyed the directness! 🙂
“I believed we were in the most difficult part of our lives, raising kids, career etc and that things would be better once things could slow down.” — What convinced you that you needed the change? That things wouldn’t get better unless you did something different? Was it a slow build-up or a lightning strike moment?
“Most haven’t been trusted enough or mattered enough to me to share with them. Sometimes this is because I don’t think they would understand my excitement, or care. Sometimes it’s because they are whiners, not doers. Sometimes I don’t want to explain why it’s important for me to feel feelings and so on. Many are just innocent bystanders, haha, and I don’t want them that close.” — It makes sense to me.
“if it’s my mom or another known narc, “Hell no”.” — Makes sense…following sound logic.
“You see, my parents rejected all sharing of emotions, or worse and more typically, mocked and/or punished such sharing. So it is usually easier to let someone go.” — That sounds familiar…uncomfortably so.
“Fwiw, I do treasure those people who I come across who actually want to truly know me and who I discover to be safe. Those are just few and far between.” — That sounds familiar, too…
Hi Dani, I wrote two comments in reply to this one, don’t know what happened to them, I’ll see if three is the charm. Hopefully they don’t all turn up at once!
My ex had a lot of secrets, as narcs do, but his became known in a way that I could no longer deny them. It was several lightening strikes in a short span of time, a friend who helped me see reality and my realization that my children could potentially be removed from our home if I did not act. My Super kicked in and within a relatively short time, he left.
I am sorry that you also experienced the rejection of your emotions by your parents, that is very hurtful at the least and can be very damaging.
@NA
I agree
The effect on the child would be the same regardless of the fact that the empath and narcissist have different motivations for being in denial. What difference does that make to the child?
Sometimes empaths also make shit parents.. namely the ones who are very codependent.
Not everyone should take on that responsibility just because biology is telling them to.
Hi Truthseeker,
“He has recently escaped an ensnarement.” “Then I’ll send out emotion/ feeling/ a mindset. Stability, strength, the idea of taking things all in our stride, confidence, affection, reassurance, whatever is missing for him in that moment. He always tells me that he feels better for being around me. It is like a little break I think, it evens him out somehow, steadies him. So yes, I send out and absorb emotion.” –He’s lucky to have you for a friend.
“Haha! I sound crazier by the minute here. Yes, if I’m refusing to show emotion I shield. I visualise the shield as a glass dome and I see it as I raise it! I even added some shimmer to it. Gawd. Haha!” –I don’t think you sound crazy. Yay for the shimmer!
“If the shield is up, no one gets any emotional content. I portray me, but there’s nothing behind it.” How does the shield affect your ability to take in emotion if it was put up to stop transmitting to others?
“Do you ever actively stop transmitting emotion Dani?” I’ve generally thought of some of my perceptions of my emotions of being akin to ‘magical thinking.’ I’ve not encountered so many people before who’ve shared openly such similar perceptions. I’m mostly trying to process and consider what sounds similar and what sounds somewhat foreign. My current thought for me is that I keep transmissions low or non-existent with those who’ve consistently proven problematic in a variety of ways. There are precious few where I’m in constant transmission, sending and receiving; distance is no problem. I’m not entirely certain of how it works or a good analogy.
Hi Dani,
You and me both! I don’t know how it works either. Simpler for me maybe because I have to have a person with me for my Contagion element to work. I will say it’s working all the time though unless I’m driven to the point of switching off to that person or, I shield.
I’m reaching with my Contagion element in every face to face interaction I have. It’s automatic, so to clarify exactly what I’m doing I think is quite difficult. I rely on my Contagion. My most recent ensnarement was online. To me, I was drawn in wholeheartedly there because essentially I was ‘flying blind.’ My Contagion doesn’t work through a screen. I suppose I get a sense of a person online, but it’s too vague, I would never rely upon it. Im far more likely to believe what I’m told online because Im not getting that Contagion information that would warn me the words don’t match the emotional stamp.
I was convinced my lead school was Contagion, just because of my rate of usage for that element. Having read the comments of other full Contagion empaths I recognise that they are stronger, their reach is broader, so Contagion is not my lead school after all. HG was correct in his analysis. Im exactly what he found me to be. That irks me a little haha! Meh, pffft!
Thank you for your comment about my friend. Interestingly, he also has a sizeable Contagion element, which probably explains a lot about the friendship.
In answer to your question about absorbing emotion if my shield is up. No. I neither transmit nor absorb. It is very much how I visualise it. I am within the dome, together with my own emotions. Everything and everyone is outside it. It’s defensive, a safe space / a holding position. Someone else might describe it as ‘going in to myself’.
The fact that you keep your transmissions low around people you find problematic I think demonstrates you place a value on your emotions, part of your defence might also be to pull them back or lessen them. Maybe you shield also, you just don’t visualise what you do in quite the same way?
Xx
“You and me both! I don’t know how it works either. Simpler for me maybe because I have to have a person with me for my Contagion element to work.” — When did you first realize that you were picking up on other’s emotions? Did it come as an epiphany or have you always been aware of it? (You said: “I’m reaching with my Contagion element in every face to face interaction I have. It’s automatic, so to clarify exactly what I’m doing I think is quite difficult.”)
“I will say it’s working all the time though unless I’m driven to the point of switching off to that person or, I shield.” — Do you shield often? I would guess your usage to be moderate from what I’ve read.
“I rely on my Contagion.” — How do you feel you rely your other schools/cadres by comparison?
“My most recent ensnarement was online.” — I’m sorry you were ensnared online, and I’m glad you’ve escaped now. I hope you’re healing from it all.
“I was convinced my lead school was Contagion, just because of my rate of usage for that element.” –Did you try to guess where you would fall when you took the empath detector? If so, how close were you?
“Having read the comments of other full Contagion empaths I recognise that they are stronger, their reach is broader, so Contagion is not my lead school after all.” — Assuming that I fall somewhere within the empath realm according to HG’s classification, which I hadn’t really considered before encountering his work, I don’t think I would either. It sounds similar to my experience but enormous and vast beyond what I have experienced. It sounds stressful, yet they handle it well.
“HG was correct in his analysis.” — He has a way of being so that is extraordinary.
“Thank you for your comment about my friend. Interestingly, he also has a sizeable Contagion element, which probably explains a lot about the friendship.” — Have you ever felt like you’ve been in a loop with him? You went to engage in a fun activity that ratcheted up for both of you as you picked up on each other?
“Maybe you shield also, you just don’t visualise what you do in quite the same way?” I don’t know that shield is quite the right analogy for me. I’m contemplating and exploring what it is that I think I do and trying to find the right words.
Hi Dani,
That’s a really good question, when did I realise I was picking up on the emotions of others? I don’t think I did properly. I wouldn’t really have known any different. Other people commented. Things like “ How do you do that?” A person might walk in smiling and I’d take a breath in and ask “What happened? I’d feel the upset or the confusion, whatever it was. My dad also picked up on it. I remember a discussion we had, where he asked if I ever felt a “draining” if I was in a specific location, or, if I ever felt like I left a piece of myself behind. I described it as a mild thirst or hunger.
I knew if I was being lied to. That was probably the first recognition. I was never wrong so I knew how a lie felt. I knew how someone else’s anger felt, I could feel it on my mum before it happened. So bits I suppose but no full realisation as such. My dad was very in tune with me and would ask me what I thought about people we might speak to just out and about. I would tell him and he would laugh and agree.
As I got a bit older, I knew I was an excellent judge of character. I knew I felt behind the words, I didn’t know what Contagion was so would have described myself as a people reader. It took me into adulthood to recognise that emotions I felt, didn’t always belong to me. I could be with someone who was upset and their sadness would hang around me for days afterwards but it wasn’t my sadness. I think my Contagion heightened after I had my first baby. It heightened further after the second. I can only describe it as ‘reaching’ that’s how it feels, like I’m reaching out for something.
I don’t shield too often no. I do it most if I’m upset, if I feel out of control / anxious. I do it if I feel threatened or if someone makes me angry. I do it also if I’m drained. I draw in and raise the shield as protection.
Thank you, online narc is toast haha!
I’m very aware of my Contagion when it’s in play. I was less aware of my other schools. Part of this was a misinterpretation of what the other schools meant. Mid Rangers love to think they are Super Empaths. That glorified kickassery just caused me to reject my school outright. Now that I understand the schools better, I recognise that the EDC was correct, the TDC was also correct. In terms of cadres, I fully agreed with the outcome of the EDC, no problems there. I probably use my Magnet more, but, if circumstances are right the Saviour will step in and override all my other cadres in a heartbeat. I absolutely can’t turn my Saviour off when it activates so it is my lead school, I’m just not always required to save!
In a loop? In a loop?! You would laugh if you saw us locked in the loop. Yes. We lock into each other and have conversations that run on two threads concurrently. The conversation everyone else hears and the conversation that is going on behind that conversation. My friend has no shield. He does reach though. I’m not sure we ramp each other up necessarily, but I would say that we can lift or steer each others mood.
Yes, I agree, the experiences of full Contagions are extremely intense and I think they are more sensitive to their environment as a whole. It’s a lot of stimulation, a lot of information coming in consistently, more than I experience.
I’ll be really interested to hear how you experience this side of your empathic nature, when you place it and of course should you choose to share your thoughts.
Xx
Dani,
Ran out of time and missed a question, back from my taxi duties now! I took the EDC quite early, I hadn’t been on the blog too long, two or three months maybe and I was focussed on the narc side, not the empath side. So I didn’t really have an expectation as to the outcome. I just hoped I wasn’t a narc!
When I got the results though, I hated the school because of how I associated it. I also didn’t believe I fit because I don’t see myself as an attacking personality. I’m very much geared to defence, plus, my ET was extremely high at that point and someone kickass wouldn’t have been caught in the way I was caught online. That was my thinking at the time. I was annoyed with myself, hurt, very sad, so to me I just didn’t fit. So I looked at where I should fit and to me at that time, I was more Contagion than anything else.
It’s only later as my ET fell, my traits resumed their usual order that I began to see why I fit in my allocated school rather than anywhere else.
I did the Trait Detector fairly quickly after the EDC. The TDC is very involved. I expected to disprove the EDC with my TDC result. Haha, “God loves a trier”as my grandma would say. I didn’t, the second detector supported the first. I was entirely honest on both because I wanted to know exactly what I was. I’ve looked back at the questions since. If I took it today I think I might have answered two or three questions differently with lower ET, but I can see why I answered those same questions the way I did, so I’d still come out the same even with low ET. I’d be more my school, not less. I find that more impressive than anything else. ET won’t really impact the results. The EDC and TDC are extremely well thought out. In my view they will get to the bottom of your empathic make up, irrespective of whether you get the strop on afterwards when you get the result!
HG has his hands full with we empaths I think. Haha! Oh well!
Xx
Hi TruthSeeker,
“I knew if I was being lied to. That was probably the first recognition. I was never wrong so I knew how a lie felt.” How would you describe this working against gaslighting? Or against someone whose truth is different than yours but they believe what they are saying?
“My dad was very in tune with me…” — I’m glad that you had someone to discuss these things with. It was clearly very beneficial for you.
“It took me into adulthood to recognise that emotions I felt, didn’t always belong to me. I could be with someone who was upset and their sadness would hang around me for days afterwards but it wasn’t my sadness.” — Does this only work with people you interact with in person? Are you ever affected by fictional TV programs or the News in the same way?
“I think my Contagion heightened after I had my first baby. It heightened further after the second. I can only describe it as ‘reaching’ that’s how it feels, like I’m reaching out for something.” — Do you think the heightening of your contagion was in any way from a desire to protect your children? Did it function differently with your children when they were newborns/toddlers?
“Thank you, online narc is toast haha!” — You’re welcome! And good to hear! Did you have a consult with HG about this (if that’s not too personal for me to ask/for you to answer)? If so, how helpful did you find it?
“I’m very aware of my Contagion when it’s in play. I was less aware of my other schools. Part of this was a misinterpretation of what the other schools meant. Mid Rangers love to think they are Super Empaths. That glorified kickassery just caused me to reject my school outright.” — I feel like mid-rangers probably like to think they’re all kinds of powerful from what HG says. I’ve only really heard HG talk about super empaths. The way he talks, they don’t sound like kickass narc-destroyers to me. But I’ve heard HG address the misinformation about super empaths, and that being a common misconception. From listening to him, they don’t sound like that to me.
“Now that I understand the schools better, I recognise that the EDC was correct, the TDC was also correct. In terms of cadres, I fully agreed with the outcome of the EDC, no problems there.” — Is there an article/video that helped you understand the schools and cadres particularly well?
“I probably use my Magnet more, but, if circumstances are right the Saviour will step in and override all my other cadres in a heartbeat. I absolutely can’t turn my Saviour off when it activates so it is my lead school, I’m just not always required to save!” If there is a story you wouldn’t mind sharing about a time when that happened, that would be helpful…I’m not sure I completely understand what you’re getting at.
“In a loop?…The conversation everyone else hears and the conversation that is going on behind that conversation. My friend has no shield. He does reach though. I’m not sure we ramp each other up necessarily, but I would say that we can lift or steer each others mood.” — Fascinating…I’m not sure what more to say about that at the moment. I need to process it.
“I’ll be really interested to hear how you experience this side of your empathic nature, when you place it and of course should you choose to share your thoughts.” — That’s very kind of you to say. I appreciate that. I’m considering what to share and how to share it while ensuring that I’m looking out for the person(s) closest to this element of my (potentially) empathic nature.
“I took the EDC quite early, I hadn’t been on the blog too long, two or three months maybe and I was focussed on the narc side, not the empath side. So I didn’t really have an expectation as to the outcome. I just hoped I wasn’t a narc!” — I’m there. Hoping I’m not that word.
“When I got the results though, I hated the school because of how I associated it. I also didn’t believe I fit because I don’t see myself as an attacking personality. I’m very much geared to defence, plus, my ET was extremely high at that point and someone kickass wouldn’t have been caught in the way I was caught online. That was my thinking at the time. I was annoyed with myself, hurt, very sad, so to me I just didn’t fit. So I looked at where I should fit and to me at that time, I was more Contagion than anything else.” — Interesting that you hated your results initially…from what I’ve heard here, the supers are viewed quite positively by those who’ve been responding to me. I can understand, though, after having dealt with an online ensnarement and all the hurt and frustration that comes with that…it would be interesting to read the other first impressions results of those who’ve taken the Empath Detector.
“It’s only later as my ET fell, my traits resumed their usual order that I began to see why I fit in my allocated school rather than anywhere else.” — So what I’m hearing is that HG was right…as he asserts he always is in these matters?
“I did the Trait Detector fairly quickly after the EDC. The TDC is very involved. I expected to disprove the EDC with my TDC result. Haha, “God loves a trier”as my grandma would say. I didn’t, the second detector supported the first. I was entirely honest on both because I wanted to know exactly what I was. I’ve looked back at the questions since. If I took it today I think I might have answered two or three questions differently with lower ET, but I can see why I answered those same questions the way I did, so I’d still come out the same even with low ET. I’d be more my school, not less. I find that more impressive than anything else.” — That’s very interesting. I wonder how many other people look back at the results (if they felt similarly to you).
“ET won’t really impact the results. The EDC and TDC are extremely well thought out.” Are they multiple choice or word count determined?
“In my view they will get to the bottom of your empathic make up, irrespective of whether you get the strop on afterwards when you get the result!” — “Strop on”…Are you British?
“HG has his hands full with we empaths I think. Haha! Oh well!” — An empath ought have more compassion for His Greatness, the Handsome Genius…(Just teasing Truthseeker and trying to guess what the HG stands for…) Serious note, I think HG likes having myriad empaths in his fuel matrix…I wouldn’t think (in his mind) he could have too many…
Hi Dani,
Gaslighting. Honestly, I don’t think I’ve experienced what I would consider to be gaslighting. I’ve had people lie to me but no one has tried to gaslight me to my knowledge. It’s possible that I ended the narc relationships before I got to that point. I’ve never been really ground down by a relationship,I’ve struggled more with sadness once the relationship is over. I imagine that gaslighting takes place deeper into an abusive relationship, when prolonged abuse has taken its toll and the cloudiness of ET is at its worst. In those circumstances I suspect the empath still feels the lie, she just doubts her own instinct and is too worn down to fight.
I disliked two of the narcs I was ensnared by to begin with. Over time though as no doubt my ET began to rise and the charm offensive continued I would have disregard my first impression. So I don’t think it’s that we don’t feel the lie. I think it’s more that we disregard the relevance of the lie. Let’s face it most people lie in some form or another, what’s often more important is the reason for the lie.
When it comes to distressing scenes on tv, I do get upset by them yes. Some films I can’t watch, particularly if they depict mistreatment of children or animals. I’m not absorbing emotion here though. I’m empathising with the predicament of the person on tv. So the sadness is mine not theirs. I definitely need a person in the room with me to absorb emotion. I really don’t like crowds and probably for this reason. Too much information all at the same time.
Yes, I think it’s quite likely that my Contagion element heightened as I had two little people to protect. My son spoke really late. I was told by a doctor that it was down to the fact that he didn’t need to speak, as I already knew what he wanted. Haha! True that. I’m still very in tune with both children. They are teenagers now, and I know if they’ve had a good day or bad day a few minutes after they walk through the door. I couldn’t tell you before they walk in though, so I have to have them in the room.
I think the general perception of the Super is that the individual has higher narcissistic traits therefore those traits show more often. Personally I don’t think it’s the narcissistic traits that are most important with the SE. It’s the empathic traits that are more important and the way they are used. That’s just my view though. Others might well disagree.
I didn’t consult with HG during the aftermath of my ensnarement with the online narc. I accessed the knowledge Vault and worked my way through the materials there. I wasn’t wary of HG, I’m just not great at admitting I need help. (I have a strong pride trait) I also didn’t want to book his time when other empaths might have been in greater need of it. I have since consulted with HG several times and looking back, feel it would have been beneficial to have consulted with him earlier.
Yes, once I got my EDC results I read the articles relevant to my various cadres. You can search the various empathic cadres using the search function. Only the Martyr cadre is missing. The Contagion school is in the pipeline currently I think. I had read one or two of the cadre articles previously just in general article rotation on the blog. I can’t remember if I had read the SE article at that point, possibly.
Yes HG has addressed the misconceptions surrounding the Super Empath. At the time of my EDC a few of his YouTube videos relating to this school had not yet been released, so the kickass imagery was still alive and …kicking.
Yes, HG knows his stuff. His understanding of empaths is both reassuring and concerning. I don’t like the feeling that I might be predictable. Got to keep it moving, duck, dive, change direction haha!
I would imagine that many empaths look back at their detectors and ponder if they have changed at all. Truthseekers will tend to go that route, at least I think they would, would they? Haha! I imagine also that many are surprised by their results. Not disappointed maybe, just surprised. It’s always better to know and fully understand your empathic make up in my view. That way you recognise your own drivers and can better see how narcs might play on them.
Yes, I’m English, from Lancashire originally. I’ve moved around a lot though.
HG has referenced various meanings for the H and G. Hurt God was one. Probably for the same reason he likes Depeche Mode. 😜 Was Huge Gonads another? I think so haha!
I do have an example of my Saviour kicking in and over riding my other cadres, it’s a bit lengthy, will describe in a separate message after biology revision with the boychild.
Xx
TS,
Re: Gaslighting
” I imagine that gaslighting takes place deeper into an abusive relationship, when prolonged abuse has taken its toll and the cloudiness of ET is at its worst. In those circumstances I suspect the empath still feels the lie, she just doubts her own instinct and is too worn down to fight.”
I agree with you on the empath getting worn down and being less able to fight off the effects of gaslighting, as the ensnarement progresses. However, in hindsight, I can see the themes in my ensnarement stretching back
Yes, the themes all roll together, it is interesting to see this and the connections in hindsight.
Sorry- pressed send inadvertently…
I can see the themes, stretching back to the beginning of my ensnarement, that my ex played upon, only they had a grain of plausibility at the time – so they did not read as gaslighting then…but they were only the first few drops of water of many yet to come.
Dani,
An example of my Saviour getting triggered and taking over.
I was sent on secondment for six months to France. There were two of us, myself and a colleague called James. James was a Cockney, very soft hearted, ridiculously funny, warm, personable, genuine. We got on very well.
We arrived at the office and we were being introduced to the staff that we would be liaising with during our six months. I love travelling, I enjoy meeting and getting to know new people. James was similar, brimming with energy and mischief, so we were enjoying the afternoon of meet and greet before we went out for our welcome dinner.
Here, I would say my Magnet was in operation. Friendly, sociable, getting to know people I’d be working with. We went into meet the management team to discuss the project. They were all lovely, all Brits. The last visit of the afternoon was with the Finance Manager. As James and I were going to be moving around location to location, James jokingly suggested that rather than the company pay for hotels and cars for us, that they should cap ex a boat. We could sail round the south coast and then sell the boat at the end of the six months. He was quite clearly joking, the cockney accent and swagger of delivery was very funny to be fair.
The finance guy was not amused. The temperature in the room dropped, the response was scathing. I felt James’ bubble burst at the side of me. He actually blushed and looked down. It was just a joke, there was no need for the condescension and put down, finance guy could just have laughed the joke off.
This manager was only young. Had the ‘ big I am’ attitude that was uncharacteristic of the organisation. Bit flirty, bit of a charmer, full of himself. He was ex pat as we were. The company culture was very much that we all worked together but socialised and drank together when out in the markets, so again, this was a flex, uncalled for.
We all got our stuff sorted to leave, James was unusually quiet as we were leaving the office. Saviour triggered, I hung back, James went out of the door to the street below. The finance guy was directly behind me, so I turned and said that James was only kidding, trying to break the ice, I thought his response was uncalled for. He stopped and looked at me but he didn’t say anything in response. I don’t know what possessed me, probably the fact he was young, not a huge amount older than me. So I said to him “Yeah, bit of an arsehole really aren’t you?” I said it smilingly, almost with familiarity to wrong foot him, descended the stairs and let the door to the street slam behind me. I was fizzing.
Magnet gone. Saviour activated. I couldn’t stop myself. It angered me and poor James was just being James.
As it happens the Finance guy and I spent a lot of time together in the months that followed. He liked me, a lot, he agreed he was an arsehole and earmarked me because I “had balls”.
When my Saviour kicks in, it kicks in and I’m already wading in before I can catch myself. I don’t lose my temper, I draw in and go calm, I use my words Haha!
Xx
Hello Who Cares x
Yes, me too I think there were little chips taking place from the get go too. If gaslighting is the alteration of an individual’s reality then it takes time to put in place. The narc can’t change just one thing or two, there have to be alterations throughout the entirety of the shared fantasy / illusion.
I think essentially that’s what we’re talking about. The narc draws the empath in to a shared fantasy they both occupy together. At the beginning this illusion or fantasy is constructed to appear beautiful, is representative of all the empath ever wanted, shared hopes and dreams. Then as devaluation begins and the narc no longer sees the need to portray himself as his idealised version, then this shared fantasy starts gradually to change. Bit by bit by bit. What once felt like safety, a haven, starts to become more like a prison. The empath questions the change, is prone to blame negative behaviours on herself so is very open to her sense of reality being questioned and then moulded gradually into something more sinister.
I suppose gaslighting really equates to compound manipulation. It takes time to change a perception of reality, it would have to be gradual.
The king pin in this has to be isolation. If an empath has points of reference outside of the shared fantasy to draw on, she is going to be far more difficult to manipulate. But if isolation is done effectively, points of reference are removed, then all the empath sees is that one illusion, the narcissist is then the only point of reference.
I think this is why I would say I was manipulated but not gaslighted (gaslit?) The first two romantic narcs didn’t manage to isolate me. One of them ( Love of My Life Guy) had a pretty good stab at it. He had his own business, didn’t want me to work, told me if I was with him I wouldn’t need to. Cue house brochures, car brochures and exotic holiday locations. Problem was, I loved my job. No way I was going to give it up on a promise. Plus, my job involved travel, I worked away, so I still had all of those reference points in place linking me to the outside world. One foot in the illusion, one foot out. I don’t believe you can gaslight someone like that.
Ironically, online narc did more damage. At that point I was far more isolated. The illusion was created for me online and I had fewer reference points outside of it thanks in part to his monopolisation of my time and non existent social circle. You can always escape online, in some ways the illusion is even more glittering. The holiday romance idea, no day to day monotony to dull the shine. Again though, despite that draw into fantasy land, it’s still very difficult to gaslight when real life keeps pulling at the edges.
Isolation is critical. This is something empaths can recognise and safeguard against. No romantic relationship should take your job, consume your social circle or pay you off. Safeguard against those things and gaslighting has to be far more difficult to achieve, irrespective of school or cadre of empath.
Xx
Hi TS, I’m going to jump in here. Gaslighting is insidious and its an integral part of the conditioning process. Its can be very subtle and you don’t even realize its happening sometimes. Every single one of the narcs in my life, including my daughter has gaslit me.
You don’t need to be isolated to live within their delusion. I wasn’t isolated. I was top lieutenant for several of the narcs in my life. I was Prince Harry and Will Smith. Neither one of them are isolated and they are both being gaslit.
Its so much more than a lie. I’m going to use my ex best friend as an example. I call her the Deserter now because she’s deserted her children. For the first couple of years, I believed that it was her narc husband that took the kids away from her and made it impossible for her to see them. As I’m sitting here thinking about it, I’m actually ashamed that I believed the things that she said. When her husband first left with the kids, she claimed she was so distraught. I found her on her couch drunk and crying. I believed her. I was wrong. She was using me to indirectly assert control over him. I said, call the police. She said she did and that they couldn’t do anything because they were with their father. I believed her. When he reality, she could’ve filed a missing person report. There’s so much more, but the point I’m trying to make is that we so desperately want to believe them that we believe what they’re saying.
It wasn’t until I found Mr. Tudor and narcsite that I realized how much I was being gaslit and conditioned. Mr. Tudor has helped me shatter the rose colored glasses. Gaslighting really is insidious.
Hey Leigh,
I think the difference here might be what I classify as gaslighting and what I see as manipulation even if it’s a repeated manipulation. Perhaps my definition of gaslighting is too narrow comparatively.
To me, gaslighting is making the victim feel as though they are losing their mind, they mentally unwell, crazy. The victim questions their recollection of events and behaviours in light of the fact that the narcissist convinces them they are mentally ill.
There were a few articles on the blog which contained manipulations that would feed into gaslighting a victim.
Hiding the victim’s car keys ( your memory is failing you)
Filling the bin with empty wine bottles (you drink more than you think, you have a drink problem)
Scaring the victim by making banging sounds around the house then saying the victim is hearing things. (hearing things, hallucinating, you’re mentally unstable)
Creating hypervigilance in the victim, shredding their nerves.
This is what I mean by gaslighting, making the victim truly believe that she is crazy, she flies into a temper all the time, she is the problem and thanks to her failing mental health she is losing her grip on reality.
To gaslight in this sense would take time and repeated manipulations to convince the empath she actually is mentally unwell. It would take isolation from friends and family. Possible use of coterie members to support the assertions of the narcissist and so on.
I could say instead that my mum gave me the impression I was a bad daughter for not doing mother daughter things together. I did question that from time to time, was I a bad daughter? Some people might say that was gaslighting. They might be right. To me it was a pity play wheeled out subtly from time to time. A manipulation that I wouldn’t class as gaslighting. Possibly because I didn’t really believe it. I saw my behaviour as justified, I wasn’t questioning my mental health or my perception of reality.
Perhaps I’m too narrow with my understanding of the term gaslighting, or too old school haha!
Xx
For me the gaslighting began at birth and at a very young age I no longer even needed manipulations to be confused and not know up from down. I think that is when I gave up trying to figure it out and see things clearly and just accepted that I didn’t have the ability to understand certain things. Cognitive dissonance was the result overall and I have only learned since being here that CD is a thing, let alone a problem for me. Unpeeling the onion has revealed more of the messages I was fed and the way things were skewed right from the start. One example, “You need me, without me you are nothing.” Being a child and being told this, even if only in actions, I accepted it. So many other messages, that one picked out of a hat, but all the same result, I did not see things based in reality but only through the narcissists lens because it was the only lens allowed. So I have accepted that I am actually “sick”, mentally, but that I am able to become healthier, hopefully to even become healthy. That is my experience only, not everyone’s I am certain. But thought it might be helpful to share it.
Oh, and I meant to also add, avoiding people because I was not like them, ie “normal” and thus creating my own isolation. Considering and attempting suicide many times. Doing risky behaviors because I don’t even consider that I am worth taking care of myself. And more insanity also. I think all are signs of “crazy” but I didn’t know why, couldn’t figure that out, until I arrived here. I don’t know if this is due to gaslighting in the typical sense but I suspect, in my case anyway, that it is.
Hi TS,
I didn’t feel like I was losing my mind either. Things just didn’t add up. I questioned all the time. I thought maybe I was missing a piece of the puzzle. LOL! I was actually right about missing a piece of the puzzle. Sometimes the gaslighting is done to make us think we’re crazy but sometimes its done to condition us to do what they want.
What you describe is a small piece of the bigger picture. The salami slicing, the plausible deniability, the twisting of words, all contribute to the gaslighting. I think every single manipulation that is used against us, contributes to the gaslighting. Its used to condition us and create cognitive dissonance in a very insidious way.
I remember Mr. Tudor posting a video of Will Smith where WS talks about how he didn’t do anything wrong as kid but he always felt like he was bad because of the punishment and discipline he endured. If he was a good kid, he wouldn’t have been punished so he must be a bad kid.
Over the summer, I had an experience where I felt I was weak. I said to my empath friend that I didn’t want to talk about leaving my narc husband anymore because it reminded that I’m too weak to leave. I must be because if I was strong enough, why do I stay?
As a child and sometimes as an adult, my mother would tell me that I was a miserable child and I was just like my father. Is that why I feel I’m inherently bad? It must be true because my father is an abhorrent man and if I’m just like him, it stands to reason, I’m inherently bad too.
Yes, those two scenarios are my ET but it stems from being gaslit for years. All those messages for years have altered my perception of myself and that’s why the gaslighting is so insidious.
Leigh,
I see what you mean. I hadn’t thought about gaslighting in context of the parental narcissist, only in context of the romantic relationship. I agree also that gaslighting is the result of compound manipulations.
I can see how children would be gaslit from birth to think in a certain way or view themselves in a certain way, therefore making them easier to control for the narc.
If you are conditioned into believing that you are a bad person, “ just like your father”, then it stands to reason that your view might be “ I deserve what I get”.
I read that every person has a series of introjects. Essentially, introjects are the internal representation of various characters that we encounter during our lives. We also have various self states. Different self states will call on different introjects to make sense of what is happening in the present. So, the introject that is your mother tells you that you are a bad person. Certain self states will call on the introject of your mother, others will call on a different introject. So in terms of your romantic relationship the guiding introject might be your mother, but in work, the guiding introject might be an old teacher or an old boss. (You likely are a different Leigh in work than you are at home.)
Theoretically, the introjects of our narcissists guide our behaviour which is likely part of ET. The trick would be to silence the narc introjects whilst calling on non narc introjects instead. I wonder if you picked a non narc from your past or present and when that negative narc introject starts to talk, you consciously call on the non narc introject and ask yourself what would this person advise me to do in this situation? What would they think? So for me, the negative introject would be my mum, the positive would be my dad. For you it might be your mum as negative, your daughter as positive. Over time you want to silence your mum and amplify the non narcs.
In many ways the method of how to do that I think is the full No Contact regime. HG asks us to close all 5 arenas of interaction. Essentially, silencing the narc introject until we replace that thinking with Logical Thinking or, a more realistic / positive introject.
HG is no fool, there are very real reasons why ACONS should aim for Total No Contact with parental narcs. It doesn’t just prevent future damage, it starts to repair past damage / helps to silence the parental narc introject.
Next time you view yourself as ‘bad’ or ‘undeserving of anything better’, maybe try challenging the thought and testing it for accuracy. Balance it logically against all the good things you do instead. List these good things out loud so you can hear them. Consider your motivation for these good behaviours and say those out loud too. If nothing else it might give you a more balanced view. No one is all good, but are you really bad? If you aren’t then you don’t deserve to put up with narc bullshit!
I still find it mind boggling what a narc parent will do to their child, Insidious would be correct. Unforgivable would also be realistic.
Xx
Hi AV & TS,
Yes, I believe the gaslighting started a birth and I think it primed me to be ensnared by other narcissists. Both my mother and my husband are victim narcissists. Coincidence. I think not, lol!
My mother was helpless and after my father left, it got worse. I had to take care of her and I was trained to do so. When my mother told me I was a miserable child and just like my father, it got the response she wanted. I then would feel guilty and take care of the issue for her. My husband has done similar.
I like your thought AV about looking through the lens of the narc.
I saw myself the way they saw me. I was only there to take care of them. My purpose was to be their caregivers.
TS, what’s interesting about my mother’s messages is that there are a lot of positive messages too. She would tell me I was beautiful and smart. She would also triangulate me with my brothers and say, “I don’t have to tell your sister twice or if I asked your sister, she would do it?” Now, for my brothers that was a negative but as a child, it put me above them. My father would often put me above them as well. I’m not saying that’s healthy or good but that’s what happened.
I agree that we need to turn off these messages. Although I don’t want to turn off the message that I’m beautiful, lol. I am getting better with turning off the other messages. That incident in the summer when I felt weak, my empathic friend pulled me out of that. After the fog lifted it was a wake up call. When I have those weak moments now, I recognize its ET and the conditioning and I shut it down.
Its very much like AV’s analogy of the peeling of an onion. That’s how it feels for me. As I start to peel away the layers, I realize how deep the conditioning goes. But then when I see the conditioning, I can work to change it.
I’m not quite at no contact yet with my mother. I haven’t seen her in 3 years though and we speak once a month if that much and its usually a 5 minute conversation. I know when she’s trying to get a rise out of me now so I will just let her say what she wants and keep it moving.
One other thing I can remember about my mother is that I would often go to be unfed. She would always tell me that she would try to feed me but since my belly bothered me, I wouldn’t eat. Then she said she didn’t want to force me, so she stopped pushing. Since I was looking through her narcissistic lens, I believed her. I believed it was my fault that I didn’t eat. Plausible deniability.
I don’t know if these things are gaslighting. It kind of feels like it though because my perception is a bit skewed as a direct result of the narcissist’s manipulations.
One last thing, I have no desire to forgive my parents. None whatsoever.
Hi Leigh, thank you for the feedback, I always appreciate it. I read your first paragraph and realized the opposite was true for me, I would run from a victim narc, they are like beacons of who I should never be with! They remind me so much of my mom and she is so horrible in comparison to my dad! But I’ve also not gone for and Elite, their head crap was what I hated about my dad, he was so pompous and always so much better than everyone else, it disgusted me. I still have no regard for higher education, it does not impress me at all and I typically believe most who have it think they are better than those who don’t. Though I did encourage my children if that was the direction they wanted to go. Sadly, even with them, I see differences in treatment of people if they have been more highly educated than if they have not. All that to say, the Somatics love me and I guess I love them back. Ugh.
I also accepted many of the messages, I wrote to NA a bit ago about how they processed in my brain sometimes. But even more on that, if BOTH of my parents had the same message, or in my case lack of message, I believe that is when I was more likely to absorb and accept it. For example, neither of them spoke to my appearance, my dad, on the extremely rare occasion it might have come up, was complimentary, and likewise my mom was negative, so this offset each other and the overwhelming message I got was that of nothingness, which left me insecure about my looks and not sure if I was attractive or not. Some things told me that I was acceptable to look at, as a young adult, but largely still I don’t know. I have long since decided not to worry about it, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I have not wanted for attracting men, but it was a real obstacle for me for a period of time when I was younger. That is one example, there are others also, some much more damaging than this one.
My mother, in ANC with me, still attempts to gaslight, manipulate, overall acquire the prime aims every time I see her, even if only for a minute. Yesterday, she made a comment about my sister’s son’s haircut, how nice it is, as my son sat next to her at the table with his two plus years of growth hanging down onto his chest and back. And he has hair women have told him they wished they had, it is beautiful. Later he mentioned this to me, I said, yes, that is what I grew up with everyday as a child, it sucked. I was able to stave off some of those messages but many still went in to a basket labeled, “YOU’RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH”, and sometimes that basket still affects me. I believe it will be an ongoing battle for my life to not take those on when I am in a low spot, tired, hungry, hurting etc. So be it. I am thankful to know that I have the choice to not accept them, because I am aware of them. It gives me a huge step up from when I didn’t know.
Thank you for your comment, really got me thinking.
Hi Leigh,
Haha! I think keep the beautiful and smart bit and dump the negative bits.
That’s lovely to hear that your friend was able to support you in seeing yourself differently. It’s comforting to know that there is someone to listen and provide an honest opinion, it does make a difference. I think you’re right, you have to be able to spot the various manipulative behaviours first before being able to address and unpick the long term impact they might have had.
There are definite themes that ACONS share in terms of their experiences and how they view them. I’ve always found ACON accounts shocking, I still do. I used to avoid ACON discussions for that reason, I could understand the emotions felt, but I couldn’t really relate to them fully as a non ACON so I didn’t see it as my place to comment. Now I find that I am an ACON and I still find it difficult to relate to a lot of experiences described. I didn’t really experience things in the same way. So I’m still shocked, still angered by the behaviours of parental narcs, but still can’t fully relate to them as something I experienced personally. You made a comment the other day about your mother. I think you said, “I don’t respect her / I don’t respect her opinion.” I think I’ve felt like that since being a kid. I didn’t respect my mum’s opinion, so I didn’t pay much attention to what she said, good or bad. I also didn’t confide more than the bare minimum, so she had limited material to work with. Maybe that has something to do with my feeling less impacted / less able to relate to other ACON experiences.
I view my mum as irritating more than anything else. I’m not in No Contact either, I’m probably not even in Almost No Contact with her. So it’s not a case of saying ‘you should all be in no contact’ rather that I understand the thinking behind it in terms of lessening the impact of those nagging voices that some experience. Empaths all have their reasons for going full or part no contact with parental narcs, it’s a balance I think.
In terms of forgiveness I don’t forgive or not forgive the narcs in my life. I just seem to take the ‘it is what it is’ approach to it. If I can’t change it, I tend not to think about it too much. I’m at ease with it all I suppose. I do however read accounts on here and think forgiveness for me in that situation would definitely be a bridge too far.
Xx
Hi TS, this is very interesting to me. I wonder since you saw empathy in action with your father, did that make a difference? I had no barometer for empathy so the behavior from narcissists was all I knew so it was normal.
If I could use yout reluctance to confide in people as an example, I think your mom’s reaction when you confided in her was negative. You knew something wasn’t right because when you confided in your Dad, it was a different reactions. You can see the difference in behaviors. So you put your wall up with your mom and others and don’t confide.
When I was young, all I wanted to do was please them both. I may have tried to confide more in attempt to get a positive response. You knew something wasn’t right and stopped confiding.
After my father left, I blamed her. I still took care of her but I did it begrudgingly. There was less of a need to please her but she still got what she needed from me.
My daughter is very similar to you. She can see the difference in behaviors as well. She could see her father and sister were narcissists and deluded before I could. She can see empathy in action within me. This actually gives me a little hope for her.
Yes, it is lovely to have someone there who can help stop that negative self talk when it happens. I’m very grateful for to have that.
I really like your view on forgiveness. It’s a good way to look at it. AV had used the word neutral on another thread where we are discussing forgiveness. I like that word too. I think I’m at neutral with my parents. Not quite there yet with my narc husband. I’m getting there though.
I am an ACON, and while I can relate to many of the experiences of abuse that other ACONS write about, I find I don’t share in a lot of the same responses to those abuses. Many comments seem for instance to assume that we all understand that feelings of weakness or worthlessness of self are tied to those things we were told about ourselves by our abusers. That we accepted them unknowingly because we knew no other reality, continued to believe them, and have had to consistently battle those negative thoughts. I have not found that to be true in my case, so it stands to reason that there must be others who read these things and think…hold on…but don’t protest as to not be seen as invalidating that experience for others. It is not an invalidation or judgement in any way to others to say that not only did I not accept the negative things I was told about myself, but I would internally snort with derision about how they were really speaking about themselves. Any shame I had was related to anyone finding out how I lived in a house of mental illness (not mine). That there are other things in play than the abuse and that can be seen in my other siblings. Thus, I believe it relates more to individual personality and to the type of empath and composition of traits, than to empaths in general. I was a target but not a victim. That is my decision to make and not theirs.
Hi NA, thank you for this comment, I enjoyed reading it a lot. It is another aspect that is very important to consider. I also agree that not all of the messages they sent hit home as they expected or desired. For example, my mother would tell me quite often, “Just think, someday you’ll be just like me!” at which my child brain would rebel against, I remember this clearly, and in my head I would build the wall against such a thing another brick or two higher. You see, I had the opposite example from her also inputting into me in my dad, I worked consciously to be more like him in every way that I could, and I was already more like him anyway in my natural makeup. And I have often been told that I am nothing like my mother, I love the people that say this to me. All of that to say that it was one of many negative messages not only not internalized but which built me in a different direction.
I think the impact of narcs on individuals will vary with the equal or stronger impact of non-narcs, I did not have any of those in my young life in any really substantial way. I think it also varies on when the various narcs enter our lives, if it is as some here, at birth, or others later once they’ve already been somewhat “established” in their makeup. And also, I have the very strong super which I believe my mother did not account for and which I believe gave me a lot of protection against her and my dad’s input that was negative. There are definitely areas where I did absorb their messages, of course, and in my particular case messages were often more a result of what was not said than that which was said. But these kinds of variations do affect all of us differently and we each are responsible, or not, for figuring out where we personally fall within this. All of these differences coming together here, on narcsite, are really good for others to have input for their own evaluation. And I am in complete agreement that we choose how we will respond once we are aware of the message, the potential for messages even, we can be, as you say, the target but not a victim, that is very good. I will remember that one. Thank you.
Hi Leigh,
Yes. I was extremely fortunate in that I had my dad as a contrast. My mum is Mid Range, so in terms of empathy I had cognitive empathy modelled by my mum. Emotional and cognitive empathy by my dad.
I’m going a long way back here, I estimate I was probably about 5. I had been sent to my room, my mum said that it was messy, I needed to tidy it and I wasn’t to come out until it was done. So I stayed in my room and didn’t come out, but I didn’t tidy it either.
Later, my dad came home. I heard him ask where I was and then the muffled tones of my mum downstairs. Shortly after, my dad came in. It was late, for me at least. I was sitting up in bed. As he entered the room he said “ Now, your mum says she’s sent you in here because your room is a mess.’ He closed the door, turned to me and grinned. He sat on the edge of the bad and we chatted, what I’d done during my day, what he’d done during his and then he looked round and said, “It is a bit messy in here you know. You need a rethink, let’s move some stuff around, where do you think this should go?” So we set to and moved everything around, and when we had finished I loved it. I have never had an untidy bedroom since that day. I just like a tidy space.
There was contrast. The orders of my mum were offset by the let’s do it together attitude of my dad. He just knew how to be with kids.
In terms of emotional empathy, my dad really took the time with me to talk to me properly, to understand me and he was very open in sharing deeper thoughts about the world and people in it.
In terms of cognitive versus emotional empathy. My first dog was a good example. Mum fed and walked the dog (with me). Dad spoke to the dog, looked into the dogs eyes and might say, “ not feeling great today are you lass” or whatever, but he linked with the dog, really spoke to her, there was a real love there. I’ve spoken to all of my dogs in a very similar way.
My grandma offered another contrast. Dad worked away quite a lot. Monday through Friday usually but occasionally for a few months at a time. My grandma picked me up from school three days a week. During holidays I was there full days three days a week. Another strong influence. My grandma didn’t take any rubbish from my mum at all. Never rude or argumentative but my mum knew not to lock horns with her. My grandma was a tougher version of my dad, again very in tune with nature and always meaningful conversation. Someone who connected with people.
I did see contrast. I knew what felt right and what just felt plain wrong and I made my decisions very much in line with that, whose opinions mattered and whose didn’t. My dad would still tell you I’m stubborn though, there’s just an acceptance that goes along with it!
Yes, confiding in my mum always ended up as a negative result, so I stopped. When you stop confiding completely, really what you are left with is small talk. It negates a true meaningful relationship and that has very much been the end result with my mum and me.
Xx
TS, you have brought clarity for me concerning all of this, it is all a matter of contrasts but on a sliding scale. Even if we had two narc parents, they were not necessarily equally as bad. Having one normal or empath parent would change it up again. Thank you, this is a big piece for me!
Oh, and what was really exciting for me, even grandparents play into this! I know it is needed in at least five of my grandchildren’s lives, that is so big for me, you will never know! Thank you again!
Hi All, I’m going to answer in one response so I don’t tie up Mr. Tudor’s inbox, lol.
NA, The weakness I feel isn’t coming from a place of being a victim. I’m not a victim either. The weakness comes from feeling like a passenger in my own life. I feel like someone else is driving the car. Why can’t I move? There’s a piece of me that thinks the same as you. I feel contempt for them. Yet I still can’t move. I do have feelings of being inherently bad and that’s a direct result of my feeling contempt for them and that causes me to believe, I must be a bad person. I have two different thoughts that are diametrically opposed. Its quite frustrating.
TS, I love that story about your Dad. It was filled with empathy for you. I think your parenting style sounds very much like his. I agree when you can’t confide in people, all that’s left is small talk and subsequently you can’t build a true meaningful relationship. All of the relationships that I’ve had or still have with narcs are the same. They’re very shallow at best. The relationships that I have with empaths in my life are much deeper.
AV, ugh, my narc husband is a combination of my mother and my father. My narc husband is grandiose and a substance abuser like my father and a victim like my mother. The grandiose victim is quite a combination. LOL! I’m still gaslit by my mother and my husband. Sometimes they work in tandem. Just the other day my mother called me to tell me that the nursing home hasn’t had food in 10 days. I told my husband the story and he says, she’s just getting old and maybe getting little senile. I just say, I guess and then walk away. I seriously can’t make this stuff up. I want to consider your lack of messages a little bit. I don’t remember much of my childhood but I would think actions definitely spoke louder than words.
Leigh, a “grandiose victim” made me laugh! That is such an oxymoron but also so accurate for some of them! My mom is grandiose but you don’t see it, you see the victim much more.
My ex was a combination of my parents also, and fell between them on HG’s scale. Interesting observation, thanks for bringing my attention to it.
AV, LOL! He’s quite an oxymoron for sure!
NA,
I am sometimes wary of coming across as if I’m invalidating others by offering my view on things. Like somehow I’m ‘missing a sensitivity chip’ as Jennifer Anniston famously said about the beleaguered Brad. Not here, on this thread, but elsewhere at times I have decided against offering my point of view.
Trait mix, interveners, life experience in general likely all play a part in the way we responded to the abuse doled out by our respective narcs. I found your view on it helpful, thank you.
Xx
Hi TS, I write my experience, if I feel it could help in a conversation, and don’t worry about it beyond that. Because we don’t know what another person will take from it and I figured if someone doesn’t take much, or anything, they’ll just go on by, no problem. We all do it in our own way I guess but your experiences, and those of others, do help broaden my view quite often.
I was just thinking the same thing this morning about how sharing each other’s experiences actually broadens my view.
No two people will experience the same situation, the same way. Nor will they interpret it the same or have the same outcome. Even in the same household, people will experience things differently.
The beauty of hearing about other people’s experiences is that it opens my mind, deepens my understanding and broadens my view on people and life in general.
Exactly, when I hear different thoughts about a similar situation, it makes me realize that we are unique individuals, we can and often do have similarities in some ways but as you said, even in a home, in our home, things were processed very differently. My children processed things differently and each understands the difference from themselves to their siblings, and respects that.
Hi TS,
I really enjoy our conversations. Oftentimes you will offer me a different perspective. I see our conversations as a give and take and that we both learn from them. I hope its the same for you With this last exchange, you made me aware of how my daughter may have experienced the narcissistic dynamic in our household. That actually gave me hope for her.
I don’t think you come across as invalidating at all. I hope I don’t come across that way either. I share in the hopes that others will share as well and we can all learn.
@NA
I agree, it’s how your personality develops (which isn’t a choice but a combination of your genes and experiences.)
I also wonder if it’s more natural or easier to disconnect from a parent you’re not related to?
As much as some people minimise the significance… biology is very relevant in caregiving in my opinion.
It’s why even though I’m in a same sex relationship I wouldn’t make a child via sperm donation unless the father was going to part of the child’s life. Most people want to know who their bio parents are. I know that’s controversial to say but it me it’s just natural.
My oldest daughter, by my first husband, has had no trouble letting go of my second, even though he raised her. She hasn’t had any close connection with her real dad either and even less when the 2nd left and she wrote him off. I wish it was that easy for my second, his biological child. She’s had a more difficult time letting go of him and in fact hasn’t, though she didn’t see him for about 10 years, she currently sees him about once a month for a couple of hours. I trust her and her husband to stay ahead of him and I don’t worry about it. But I agree, the biological ties can be very strong.
@AV
Yeah I had a step dad for 6 years from age 4/5 and yeah he also hurt me in his own way but I got over it even if it added to my resentment towards men. In all likelihood his mother was a narc and he never knew who his dad was, and his mum would lie to him and bread crumb him about his dads identity. She was probably a hoe and sleeping with multiple men around the same time and doesn’t know who the father is but doesn’t want to say that straight up. So he has his own identity issues and wasn’t fit to take on other people’s children and shouldn’t have even tried. He was only with my mum for her looks because my mum is mixed and he has his own issues around being black that he inherited from his mother.
However, coming to the realisation that both my bio parents are narcs was a very different experience.
And no I don’t believe people ever get over it, they just learn to live with it and accept it
Hey Leigh and AV,
I’m glad my thoughts on it were helpful and gave food for thought.
Leigh, I hope so, I hope my parenting style is similar to my dad’s. He did a good job. I wouldn’t change anything about my relationship with him, except maybe park my mum in a different house so we can actually get a proper conversation!!
I was round at their house the other day. I had come straight from the gym so my dad was making tuna salad for me in the kitchen (respecting my “no cake or biscuits please dad I’m training” request haha!)
My mum walked in as my dad and I were locked in conversation. I was sat at the kitchen table and he was stood a little away from me at the counter. I said hello to my mum and then dad and I continued talking. I nearly died it was so obvious. She walked straight over and stood directly in between me and my dad, basically blocking him from view, then started talking about something else!
Two things there. I was seated and she was stood right in my personal space which aggravates me to death. The second was the talking over whilst purposely blocking dad from view.
I sat back in my chair and looked around the back of her ignoring her comment whilst continuing the conversation with my dad. She stood her ground, I sat mine and it stayed like that until my dad was handing me the salad so she had to move.
Incredible, absolutely no way I could do that to someone talking, no problem for mummykins though! My dad clocked it and smirked to himself. Played along with me by carrying on the conversation.
I don’t think my dad gets irritated by that stuff the way I do. I think he would say “that’s just your mother” in a kind of accepting way. I think perhaps now he’s older, irritations like that just fall into the category of “not worth the argument” or he screens a lot out.
I do wonder about their dynamic sometimes and put it down to my dad’s ‘laid back’ approach. As I said, serene and placid don’t really fit with me but he seems to let a lot just bounce off him. I didn’t challenge her either but more, ignored and held position out of badness. So my dad and I are similar in a lot of ways but very different in others.
Xx
Hi Leigh,
Just saw your second message. Definitely not, I don’t see you as invalidating when we discuss things. I see it as a sharing of thoughts and ideas that are there to use or not use as either one of us sees fit haha! Me too, I enjoy our discussions a lot. X
I think feeling insensitive or feeling a little detached from some threads is likely down to a number of things. Self moderation definitely plays into it, I definitely don’t want to seem invalidating by offering my point of view at the wrong time.
Secondly, finding out I am an ACON was relatively recent. So those discussions or threads do apply to me now whereas in my own mind they didn’t before. I expect to feel differently almost, but I don’t feel differently. My views on my own quirks etc are the same as they were before. Apart from ‘well that explains that then’. I have an explanation as to why I cut off emotionally from my mum for example. In a sense, a justification for my own behaviour that I didn’t have before. I wouldn’t now change my behaviours, I just understand them better.
NA’s comment came at the right time for me. Experiences are different and for the reasons she states. She reminded me of a conversation I had in consultation with HG before I sent my mum’s narc detector in and the reminder was a very helpful one.
From what you have said about your daughter Leigh, her spotting the behaviour of her father and sister, she does appear to me to have recognised the contrast between you and them. She recognised their behaviour as ‘wrong’, which suggests to me that she also knew which behaviour was ‘right.’ In terms of impact from her sister and father, that likely depends on her own traits, her own defence system and her view of herself through other people including you. She is an empath though, so for me this means whatever impact the narcissists in her life might have had, it’s within her gift to be able to fix it :).
Xx
Hi TS,
That story about your mom inserting herself in your conversation with your father conversation, I really understand . My narc husband will often do the same. From your father’s perspective I can see why he downplays it. He doesn’t want to make the situation worse. I will often do the same. I do understand what you mean about having alone time to chat. I’ll often go for walks with my daughter in order for us to have a conversation without being interrupted.
I’m glad to hear we’re on the same page with regards to sharing our stories and viewpoints. I can understand why you were uncomfortable with sharing in those discussions before you learned you were an ACON. If you didn’t experience it, do you have a right to discuss it? I just want to reassure you that you’ve always been very kind and understanding in your comments to me. Many of your comments have offered me a different view and given me awareness.
Thank you for your last sentence. Yes, its within my gift to be able to fix it.
Hi TS, I meant to say its within “her” gift to able to fix it. I’m not sure what happened there. Maybe a little wishful thinking for myself.
Hi Leigh,
Sorry, I missed this last comment, hopefully this one lands in the right place reply button is miles away!
Thank you for your kind words. Likewise, I’m always interested in reading your thoughts. I read it as ‘her gift’ 😉
Xx
TS, I know this thread is enormous, lol!
Okay, I’ve got another question…
Any other contagions find that strangers often come up to you and tell you their secrets/problems, behaving as if you’ll have some sort of answer they’ve been searching for? Or people saying they feel like they’ve known you forever, and feeling immediately comfortable with you?
Or is this a cadre (magnet or carrier) thing, rather than a contagion thing? My mid-ranger ex even pointed it out to me a few times, though he seemed annoyed by it like it was in my control or something. He even once said, “You need attention from everyone, you live for it.” 🤣 The projection was strong with that one.
Hi Victorious:
Yes. All the time. In an elevator. Walking down the street. Dogs too. I go to the dog park and there they are. Maybe it’s kindness in the eyes? I have befriended homeless persons. I think it is recognition. Looking someone in the eyes. Maybe we are just there. We smile?
Contagion, what is your percentage contagion, per your ED, can I ask? I seem to experience contagion very differently to you and some others in this discussion. Mine came up as just under 50%. I saw you write you were majority Standard and Contagion, but I’m assuming one was over 50% and one under unless it was an even split. Hope you can answer. Thanks
Hi Annanmel! I am standard contagian. Everything else was tiny matyr, geyser, super, co-dependent like 10% or 1%. I am an attorney so standard made sense. Contagian to me was most interesting as I have made no secret of my crazy dreams I have had my whole life and searched everywhere for explanation. I follow science and read books about it too. But it was on this blog I met my mates in dreams! No scientific defined explanation but those who share my reality. HG has yet to discuss contagian and I am ready! No doubt we vary. If I was HG lol I would say these are empaths with great intuition cognitively and subconsciously. We are the ones with the sixth sense. We are highly sensitive and SOME have difficulty. We are sponges to emotion. We feel or know what others are feeling to the extent we can mirror it. We need time away. I say all contagians are nature lovers. They need it to regroup and love it. We are the gardeners, animal lovers, bird watchers. We love sitting by a beach, a lake a mountain. We need it not just like it. In return nature turns to us. We are soulful within, deep, and no matter our sincere front we are sincere, devoted and loyal people . We do nothing simply. I would guess in times we were the healers the witches the PROPHETS. Dreams were valued at certain times. We were always lucid dreamers. We were always interested in nature. Today science says that’s evolution if you read the book Sleep by a Phd from Britain. Some have various odd abilities in the six senses. That’s my two cents. I am not HG. We eagerly await his input!
Hi anaammel: I am standard contagian. The others are so small: matyr, geyser, super and co dependent. 10% to 1%. I responded but it disappeared. Here is my take: contagians have a very high intuition, like a mentalist, they mirror emotions ( science studies show this in the brain), they often have lucid dreams ( considered rare and evolutionary per the book Sleep) they need to break away and retreat to regroup, nature is key, the are nature people, gardeners, animal lovers, herbalists, they are soulful, deep, devout, devoted, and in history probably the witches, healers and prophets ( odd dreams), but this tendency does not make them immune from narcs. I think we know something is wrong but we ignore it and are prone to fixing things or trying to heal. I have met people here like me. I searched for others do to my lifetime of weird dreams that never ever ever ends without explanation. I am an absolute believer in God. I am not a believer in many things new age. But I keep an open mind. But I have these dreams. Other contagians here do. That means nothing. We don’t know what HG has to say. Can’t wait!
Thank-you for your reply and explanation, Contagion.
Have you completed an empath detector questionnaire? On the response to those it will give you a percentage for the schools and cadres. So for the schools (super, standard, contagion, co-dependent) there will be a percentage breakdown. For instance 55% contagion, 20% standard, 25% co-dependent.
Then for the cadres (martyr, carrier, magnet, saviour, geyser) there is a separate percentage breakdown. It might be 30% geyser, 40% Manet and 30% carrier.
If you didn’t complete an empath detector you may not know this info in this kind of detail.
Yes, it happens with animals too! I always felt it was an energetic thing with animals. Kids as well.
Hi Victorious,
I’ve had people I just met tell me, they feel they’ve known me for years and they welcome me like an old friend..I would say, we clicked right away. I also have strangers,who see me around town, smile at me warmly and I smile back. If I’m waiting in line, they’ll chatter me up right away. I’ve been told by some people, that I’m very warm and welcoming to them. I make them feel at ease.
Rebecca. Contagian.
@Victorious
It’s a magnet thing
It happened to me more often when I was younger and in a relationship with a narcissist so more vulnerable, people would just start talking to me on public transport.
Also the magnet thing meant I used to attract older men as soon as I hit aged 14. “I feel like I’ve know you forever” is a red flag.
Now that I’m more closed off and guarded, I don’t attract those kind of responses as much, unless I am actually helping that person.
Even when I go to places where I know there are going to be a lot of men like the gym and I don’t want to socialise, I always go with my wife, I go looking like shit hair looking raggedy, I don’t make eye contact, I don’t smile at them because as soon as I look like I might be friendly it increases the risk of a narc coming over. It does work.
Most 14 year old girls have probably found they appealed to ‘older men’ – magnet or not..
@annaamel
I think when you’re an empath it happens more often and it happened to me a lot. There was an incident that caused me to start feeling anxious about leaving the house for a few weeks
I really think it’s the 14 year old trait rather than the empath trait but perhaps empaths might appear less confident or more tolerant which may encourage more attention. Sorry to hear a particular incident caused you significant anxiety, Witch.
Witch, I do exactly the same.
Even when passing people on the street, my eyes are half-closed. Just don’t make eye contact. I observe only from the corners of my eyes or from under my eyelashes (I have long ones).
If I think I’m in danger, something is bothering me, I feel someone is considering a reaction I don’t want – I can fix my eyes on them instantly. Intense, cold and hard. I drill into someone’s eyes with a silent message: “Just don’t fucking dare.”
Usually the other person looks down or looks surprised and steps back.
Sometimes I happen to give this look to someone innocent, oops, then I feel remorse 🙂 I think my face must look terrible then 😀
———
When my daughter is angry with me or tired of my “lamentations”, she can look at me like a statue. No facial expressions. No life. Her eyes… are so empty then. They don’t even sparkle.
I was horrifie, when she applied it to me at first. Now I know, how to knock her out of this statue 🙂
@Joa
Yes you absolutely cannot be yourself when you’re an empath.
My wife is friendly at the gym but that’s because men compliment her based on her skills/what she can do/her strength.
If a man is trying to talk to me it’s not for those reasons, trust, I can’t even do on pull up unassisted. That’s why I try to look the least attractive and the least approachable.
That’s really interesting you say it happened more often when you were in a relationship with a narcissist, I think it tends to be the case for me as well. I wonder if it has something to do with our traits being heightened when we’re feeding the addiction?
I stopped going to the gym a while ago for that reason, I work out at home or out in nature now. I can always smile at strangers on a hike as I pass by 🙂
@victorious
“ I wonder if it has something to do with our traits being heightened when we’re feeding the addiction?”
Possibly and also most women age 25 plus aren’t going to put up with a lesser, which is why they are more likely to target kids and “barely legal.”
The lessers are the ones that are more likely to move to you on the street or public transport because they have no class.
@witch
That tracks, and lessers also seem unable to take a hint. I’ve not found myself attracted to any lessers as far as I can tell!
It seems I’m largely addicted to middle mid rangers and beyond. At this point I’d be happy to be swept off my feet by a greater, just to not have to deal with another shriveled up balled mid ranger 🤣
Side note–it’s looking like the answer to “What the Contagion Empath Does” is “post on narcsite all day” based off Recent Comments lately
HI Jordyguin,
Well I saw HG making quotation „like this“ and – like this – and thought to myself; to hell with it, double proofed last longer😬👍 — Works for me. Changing it up…all part of his mastery at the art of manipulation, I would guess.
“(Yes, I am bilingual and switching languages is a grammatical, punctuational and sentence structured mess at times🤦♀️All Tolkien languages would be a dream😍 What are yours?)”
I wouldn’t describe myself as fluent, and certainly I would not translation work at this time, but I can read middle-grade children’s stories (with pictures) in most of the following. Scottish Gaelic (my newest–lenition is amazing!), German, Italian, French, Latin, Japanese (Weak and rusty after little practice and years since formal education), and English (my mother-tongue).
All Tolkien languages…LOVE IT! I might know a few phrases in Klingon and High Valyrian…What are yours?
“HG’s classification, terminology and explanation is amazingly different!” –Yes, having found less than stellar information before, it’s quite nice to find such clearly stated information. All HG’s examples are helping me understand quite a bit. I feel like a youngling (not a padawan yet) too, despite having been around for approx. a year. HG is the master…I couldn’t resist…
“The articles, the comments, the books, the knowledge vault, the videos, the detectors, the consultations. The material is overwhelming…”–It is. Have you gotten a detector or had a consultation?
“I’m so happy you joined the blog Dani, formulating the questions I also want to know the answers too! The dynamic becomes productive and we can share, compound and draw conclusions! Even if temporary in nature, it stimulate to dig deeper. As with contagion empathy for example – we see how majority Contagions can be different with resembling core elements, and Cadre plays a huge role as well.” –Thank you! That’s so kind of you to say. It’s all been very interesting. And we learn from talking to each other, and we give HG more information as well. I’m really looking forward to listening to his narrations about empaths. (I like hearing the voice.)
What are your favorite go-to HG video/article so far?
I like the “Questioning Me” article. I learned (not a surprise) that HG is a Slytherin/Ravenclaw hybrid (with a smidgeon of Gryffindor). I learned just how quickly HG can determine of narc/empath/normal/narcissistic–“ten minutes” in conversation (Can’t help wondering how long it takes him in writing…I’m a curious person.) In one of the latest videos, he gave a small bit of reference to his professional life…I’m sure that his natural abilities mixed with whatever his professional job is have trained him to do have helped him hone this skill.
As a favorite character of mine (Garak) said in ‘Star Trek: Deep Space Nine’ (S5E12, if memory serves): “Because lying is a skill like any other. If you want to maintain a level of excellence, you have to practice constantly.” HG is obviously practising his craft every moment after he awakens to the Imperial March (I believe he said was how he wakes each day) to returning in the early morning hours.
Video, I don’t know how to choose. I like the interviews/Ask HG series/Lives. I really liked the interview with Harry about Autism. It was really nice to hear them explain the differences, and it was wonderful and thoughtful of HG to include an autistic person in the conversation. I think, as a whole, autistics will appreciate that. I’ve met people who see autistics as synonymous with “narcissist” or “doesn’t care about anyone.” It is NOT true. Harry explained it well, in my eyes. I try to remind myself that it comes more from ignorance in general about Autism. So many changes have occurred in the DSM with regards to autism (removing the requirement of accompanying intellectual disability and combining it with Aspergers). Stopping now…I will obsess if I don’t…if you want to know more I would check that interview out.
“I am still processing your new question from February 8. I think what you refer to in your question has to do with the ever-presence…” –Search HG Tudor Ever presence in YouTube. It is something of a complicated question. It definitely has some to do with that. But it doesn’t relate solely to presents given by narcs to victims. I think normals/empaths/narcissistic people may have the ability to do this as well. I don’t know that someone has to be consciously aware of imparting that energy to do so. It could be someone with the natural talent but no training.
Does the energy vary in strength if it is a object made by the person imparting the energy (i.e. someone who makes jewelry or crochets blankets) vs the thought and energy someone might put in to finding the perfect gift for a friend/partner? What role does the emotion the object receiver play in the energy of it? Is it a two way path? Or just one way?
Anyway…those are my thoughts at the moment. Can’t wait to hear yours and others.
Hi Dani! I took the test and was 25% each category not sure the Sorting Hat is the same as the Tutor test. I also think the energy someone puts into an object or person would differ. And the person making the one t or receiving it. A painter might love her painting like a child. A collector might also value the art. The imparting of energy to me suggests an act reflecting a will. An intent. I see that intent as varied among narcs, normals and empaths. Not sure this adds anything but I tried;)
You are a perfect split for Hogwarts houses…that’s it…the sorting hat will do your bidding. I was mostly Ravenclaw/Slytherin…about equal for both. Then a smidgeon of Hufflepuff and pinch of Gryffindor…
Generally speaking, it makes sense to me that there would need to be intent. However, I think a person could do the same if they were not consciously aware of their abilities and reaching out for help. Or if they sensed that another person needed help and was seeking to offer them something of comfort. I don’t know.
Dani, I love your language collection! How come you were interested in Japanese? (mine are german, russian and I can understand the slavic languages which have russian and ukrainian similarity to them)
For you🎁 https://narcsite.com/2016/07/22/always-watching/#comment-22363
🎁 https://narcsite.com/2016/10/10/twenty-putdowns/#comment-40250
„Have you gotten a detector or had a consultation?“ — I want to detect myself first and do the detectors after in order to compare how close I was. Consultation? No, I don’t have enough trouble yet to consult about ⍝(* .*)⍝Good to know where to go if I ever should get in trouble (but being a student of Prof. Tudor – why should I;)) Just want to understand the world, family, friends, other individuals, historic personalities, events, the meaning of everything. HG’s information is well put, I barely have questions. I read the archives anyway so even if I have questions, most were answered as our predecessors thought of like eeeeverything. I am looking forward to the knowledge vault at one point. Oh and the music! Can’t wait to listen to it! Still reading the books, blog. Prof Tudor is different from all Profs, lol. Creative in every area! The visual expression in the acting moments must be priceless!
„HG is obviously practicing his craft every moment after he awakens to the Imperial March (I believe he said was how he wakes each day)“ — There is a medieval arrangement for SW-Themes, this one I like:)) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWTf8hQKqI
I thought about my favorite articles you asked of. I like those a lot where it says „crown“, „throne“, „salvation“, „redemption“, „sanctuary“. The articles with deep feelings, almost multidimensional-, mystic touch as it parallels a personal story of HG yet gives somehow a historic glimpse in to the collective of King Narcs.
„I really liked the interview with Harry about Autism.“ — I subscribed to Harry’s channel as well and watched his videos. He is doing a great job! From my observations, I think autistic individuals are direct and keen in their perception of holding the focus and full attention of whatever interest or passion. The determination; they are not that easy to bend by societal dysfunctions I think. Autistic kids have a strong innate connection to their needs and can’t be forced to obey a structure which might need a restructuring. They are very interesting! Also Harry talked of strong emotions involved, which is always a very powerful part.
Dani, your questions about the energy of objects are really good! Quite difficult to answer I must admit.
Are you asking about an object that no longer resonates with you or resonates too much and giving you a hard time?
I’ll give it a try based on what I learned, experienced and was told by others.
Generally speaking everything that an individual creates consist of an individuals attention-information-energy. What was thought and felt throughout the process and what was wished to put in to the object of creation if there was such an intent.
(Mentally by using imagination and existing knowledge, you my track back the creation of every object that was made to the beginning where it was wood, stone and so forth. The huge matrix from what once was earth to -> what became a factory, a design, a material, a product. It all consist of intention, information and transformation.)
What connects the two individuals- the giver and the receiver- is their bond in the first place. HG:„The nature of our victims being empathic individuals means that you are possessed of a greater emotional output than others“. — „possessed“ is a great word!
(->some sort of intangible form that lives inside a tangible form) What is but an emotional output? It is the lifeblood of a narcissist -> pointing out the importance of the mental+physical substance as emotions and feelings – both sprung from attention; a process which determines reality. Emotional output sounds like a metaphysical force almost. Now the object is rather symbolic in nature yet it still consist a particular story, thus energetic traces. We are conditioned to view the hard matter as dead “empty” objects but from the metaphysical or quantum or whatever energetic point of view it is also something else, which receives our (energetic) output and can preserve it in some cases or perhaps in all of them to a different degree. The force of the internal and external, mental and emotional output -> an energetic field which might cling on to objects if you will.
There may be scientific explanations, paranormal or other, but what’s most important is the practicality of the explanation in order to move forward and keep your feet on the ground, right? Not to get too scientific or too abstract or philosophical, but get to the practical outcome.
Your individuality, your perception, your feelings play a greater role in all of this.
“How come you were interested in Japanese?” — I knew I wanted to learn it the moment I saw it written out. It’s so interesting and complex. Hiragana, Katagana, and Kanji all coming together. And the history of how it came to be as it is just fascinated me. “german, russian and I can understand the slavic languages which have russian and ukrainian similarity” — Impressive. What drew you to German and Russian? I don’t think most people would consider them to be on the easy side of learning. (Though I think a great deal of language learning comes down to the attitude of the person, the number of languages they may know already, and their native language starting point.)
“For you🎁 https://narcsite.com/2016/07/22/always-watching/#comment-22363
🎁 https://narcsite.com/2016/10/10/twenty-putdowns/#comment-40250” — Thank you! I enjoy HG’s etymological lectures. The recent one on YouTube about the British term B******s was quite interesting.
“I want to detect myself first and do the detectors after in order to compare how close I was.” — Sounds like a complicated business. But I suspect it will be quite fun as well.
“No, I don’t have enough trouble yet to consult about” — I’m so glad to hear that. I feel like having heard from others that some of my troubles are incredibly mild by comparison. And I find HG can be overwhelming. I also think I’ve gotten more good, sensible advice from him than I have from most any other person. Not to mention knowing the warning signs.
“but being a student of Prof. Tudor – why should I” — I feel certain that if any of us encountered HG in the real world, it would take a substantial amount of time to figure him out. Might not ever happen. He’d know us before we knew him and make the ultra plan. I have no doubt.
“Just want to understand the world, family, friends, other individuals, historic personalities, events, the meaning of everything. HG’s information is well put, I barely have questions.” –Yes, his information is well put. I have many, many questions. I even adopted an HG solution to it. (I think he was being sarcastic when he made that suggestion, but it made sense to me.) He suggested that we have a special notebook always on hand to record our questions for him. Then, when he has time to do a live on YouTube, we have questions ready for the Ultra to answer.
How did you end up finding HG’s work? Generally speaking, I think most people have found HG after being ensnared. There’s another sizeable chunk that enjoy his wit regarding a famous narcissist whose husband published a book last month tearing down his family.
“There is a medieval arrangement for SW-Themes, this one I like:))” — It’s good. In December, I discovered the Imperial March/Carol of the Bells put together. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66M8NwkRmew
“Are you asking about an object that no longer resonates with you or resonates too much and giving you a hard time?” That’s part of it, and the other part is considering items like cursed dolls, relics of saints, etc. It certainly seems like something widespread.
“There may be scientific explanations, paranormal or other, but what’s most important is the practicality of the explanation in order to move forward and keep your feet on the ground, right? Not to get too scientific or too abstract or philosophical, but get to the practical outcome.
Your individuality, your perception, your feelings play a greater role in all of this.” –That makes sense. I don’t know that my feet are on the ground when it comes to this.
Dani-san I had a crash course in Japanese, visiting Japan Festival in Munich years ago. The Kanji impressed me indeed. What an interesting complexity behind it!
„What drew you to German and Russian?“ — The force! Dad is german, Mom is russian✌️:))
„He’d know us before we knew him and make the ultra plan. I have no doubt.“ — 100% agree! We wouldn’t stand a chance.
„I have many, many questions.“ — This is what I mean! You have really great questions. All I would come up with would be jokes regarding Dr. O👓🧼.. (but I like her actually.. I like them all as they naturally must be special, kind, intelligent and beautiful women whose presence fill the many articles and stories we are reading and learning from💞)
Ganbatte kudasai🙆♀️ with your questions! Answered in Live would be a treat!
Imperial March/Carol of the Bells — is epic! Thank you!
This one is good too. A samurai version!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-2SzaLkPXY
„How did you end up finding HG’s work?“ — A friend pointed me in his direction. Narcissism was on the periphery of my attention and I never really looked it up before. I wouldn’t know what other psychologists mean by their classifications if I had to read or watch their sources. HG is the first! (the best and only👿)
How did you find HG’s work? How did you experienced the effect of HG?💥☄️⚡️🌪🌟🌑
„The other part is considering items like cursed dolls, relics of saints, etc.“ — My best childhood friend is moroccan and I’ve been exposed to so many stories and activities regarding curses, witches, ghosts and spirits growing up. Each time we met there was a new story about leaking information regarding a new curse someone ordered on their family, her sisters, cousins or friends and it involved all kind of objects usually which would be gifted or placed somewhere in their houses by visit. So they had protective amulets and stuff like that, visited witches to break the curses. It was part of their lifestyle because „All do it“ as she told me. Also they were more open towards the paranormal because they witnessed stuff themselves and it was somewhat a fearful experiences.
„I don’t know that my feet are on the ground when it comes to this.“ — Let’s assume all of the above is true and there are individuals who are capable of sending harm by possessing an object with their spells or power they posses. There is no reason however for their abilities to be stronger than your abilities to protect yourself from harm. Why should it resonate with you or attach to you if it is an energy of harm?
Jordyguin–
“The force! Dad is german, Mom is russian✌️:))” — That makes sense. A few of my languages have been acquired for reasons of heritage… Did you grow up speaking both in your house?
“Ganbatte kudasai🙆♀️ with your questions! Answered in Live would be a treat!” — It would be. Have you ever caught a live? I’ve caught a few…but rarely when I was able to ask questions, and it’s nice to listen to what everyone else asks. It helps me think of more questions for HG.
“Imperial March/Carol of the Bells — is epic! Thank you!
This one is good too. A samurai version!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-2SzaLkPXY — LOVE IT!
“A friend pointed me in his direction. Narcissism was on the periphery of my attention and I never really looked it up before. I wouldn’t know what other psychologists mean by their classifications if I had to read or watch their sources.” — Good friendship! Best to not wonder too much about what they mean, when HG’s makes sense and is helping you understand. He’s so good about many things, like reminding people not to jump to conclusions, that his students must “observe a person’s behavior over a sustained period of time.” In my search for information, I encountered the person I believe HG named ‘Dr. Plagiarizer.’ I gave up on explanations for problematic behaviors of some people that I very much wanted explained.
“HG is the first! (the best and only👿)” — I’m sure that comment is HG approved.
“How did you find HG’s work? How did you experienced the effect of HG?💥☄️⚡️🌪🌟🌑”
I saw an expression on the face of a certain royal at a sporting event…that expression matched the way I sometimes feel after dealing with behaviours that are problematic to me from family and friends. (Sometimes I have very different feelings after exposure to these behaviours.) I figured with prominence of said royal…I was bound to find plenty of people chattering about the situation. Searching YouTube took me to many different videos created by many creators, but none of the answers felt incomplete to me.
Eventually, the algorithm delivered HG’s most excellent videos to my attention. I don’t remember the title of the first. (There are 1000+ videos about that prince’s wife now.) However, I remember the first few minutes (not verbatim, but the gist). It was an experience.
HG’s behaviour (during the first few minutes) was a treat. It was HG’s behaviour that made me so curious. I’ve seen and do see that behaviour in many people around me. (I work I listened to the entire video (after listening to what I’m going to term, a haughty pre-emptive assertion of control over people known to me now by HG’s label: “Sugars”) I knew I had something unique with the way he behaved at the start, and I knew I was going to get an explanation unlike the others. HG’s explanation about the royal resonated with me, so I clicked the next HG video to see if it would, too. It did, so I clicked a third HG video… I knew I’d found someone who was explaining bad behaviour in a way that made sense to me.
Eventually, I clicked things not related to that prince, knowing that I had what I’d been looking for periodically. HG has remained as consistent as ever.
Part of a sentence got accidentally erased by me…I meant to say “I work in a place that HG has described as having a higher number of narcs.”
Dani, I once caught a BS Bingo live! Yay!
“Observe a person’s behavior over a sustained period of time” and don’t jump to conclusions too fast. — Oh yes! Hopefully I’ll master it one day:))
Yep I am fluent in Ger/Russ in speaking and writing.. two different worlds sometimes.
Thank you for sharing how you found HG’s work and its effect on you! It is very interesting to read! Also the insights of other contagions (majority and minority) and other empaths schools who share their observations💞
Here is another comment I came across a few days ago. I like its clarity and simplicity a lot!
– Reader: What’s your definition of insanity, HG?
HG: Remaining with someone who keeps abusing you and thinking it will change. –
…In that sense as the spring is on its way, may the new acquired awareness also begin to bloom🌌
Jordyguin–
I once caught a BS Bingo live! Yay! — I have too. It was fun. I hope HG will have time to do that again soon. I also think “HG Trivia” would be fun…where we answer questions about HG…
“Observe a person’s behavior over a sustained period of time” and don’t jump to conclusions too fast. — “Oh yes! Hopefully I’ll master it one day:))” — I feel certain that you will. And I have that same hope for myself.
“Thank you for sharing how you found HG’s work and its effect on you! It is very interesting to read!” — I’m glad it was interesting.
“Here is another comment I came across a few days ago. I like its clarity and simplicity a lot!
– Reader: What’s your definition of insanity, HG?
HG: Remaining with someone who keeps abusing you and thinking it will change. –
…In that sense as the spring is on its way, may the new acquired awareness also begin to bloom”
— HG, ever succinct. We can hope for the blooming of awareness. I think I’m getting there, bit by bit. I think how society defines the word abuse has been part of my problem. With certain behaviors being treated and written about as acceptable or normal by the media, it makes it more difficult to point out how upsetting they are. HG really nails it…calls it what it is…and I find it refreshing. The relatively new playlist of HG’s on YouTube, “Relationship with a Narcissist,” is very good. I’m so glad HG analyzed that short.
„I also think “HG Trivia” would be fun…where we answer questions about HG…“
Try this! it’s fun:)) (I failed miserably. I don’t know HG at all)
https://narcsite.com/2021/11/06/the-great-hg-quiz-2/
It makes sense you are contagian with a live of languages. You have a link to humanity, the undercurrent of us all. I speak some Spanish and am advanced in French and tried Italian. There is so much inner understanding of a culture in knowing a language. I married a Brit and even English is two languages as an American. For example, if you grasp French, they are way more polite and formal than say Americans. Even if you didn’t know the culture just learning the language tells you a lot. My goodness what you must know! Very impressive!
Hi WhoCares and Leigh,
Thanks for your answers to the naughty step question. 😂 Hopefully I won’t get a tour of the dungeon. If I do, I can always talk to the mice. 😂
New question…
Emc2gion said that there places that are a “no-go” and others have energy that is bouncy and chaotic.
Can objects (given by a narcissist or someone you care for deeply) hold energy in a similar way? If so, can that energy be “channeled” through that object and heighten your ability to emotionally sense that other person? If so, do you feel the energy you experience is more attuned to what the giver was feeling when it was given or their current emotional state? Can you be suddenly drawn to that object and find out later that the person who gave it to you was experiencing a strong emotion?
Dani: I myself have never felt energies from an object. But… I used to do card readings for “fun” at New Year’s parties. My friends flocked. I felt a tingly on my spine I must admit and was great at it. But the cards are general depictions, and it’s easy as a contagian to know what another is feeling or seeking. I had a few weird , coincidental moments like when my blues guitarist friend picked up a card saying a brunette was having a baby and gis 40 year younger wife daughter was a teen pregnant. Brunette. But I don’t believe. Yet I will not deny this tingly feeling I feel. It’s there. No idea why. Goes down my neck. ??? But there must be a scientific explanation. I am not a believer in tarot readers but for fun.
Energy of objects. Hmmm this is a hard one to explain. I have felt energy from people on things. I feel my grandfathers who passed, in his trees/ orchards, it’s calming to be near them. Before he passed he gave me his prized opal pin/brooch and told me when ever I go outside and see the colours in the opal in the sun,
I will feel him with me…..and I do. For some reason, people give me their jewellery from their ex partners. I have recently parted with it all because I could not stand the energy coming off it. I had an engagement ring, a wedding band from different people, a friendship ring from another, I couldn’t get rid of it for years in case they got back with their partners and would like it back. But I came to the conclusion that it’s not my responsibility.
I also get left jewellery from people who pass, or precious stones, coin collections etc…..I also feel energy from this.
The novel series The Ringing Cedars of Russia talks a bit about this.
When someone gives a gift to someone they impart energy/ intent on that object, it’s why when people part ways in relationships they want to be rid of the objects given as reminders of memories/ energy. Or when ppl pass they want their most treasured items to be left to ones they know will cherish and care for them, part of their energy remains behind.
I also get drawn to object energetically, I love to collect, or sell art, antiques, etc. In one of my treasure hunts I kept getting drawn to an irredescent shell beaded necklace, turns out it was an antique Aboriginal Tasmanian necklace and highly collectable, I felt the energy off that, and could feel it was something special.
When I was a child, at the back of my school was a forrest and I found a pile of shells, one was shaped like a boomerang, I felt a young boys energy on that. Years later I found out that it is where the Aboriginals used to go and feast on oysters, the shells had sat there for hundreds of years in mounds, the object I found was most likely used to break into the oysters etc.
EMC2gion
“…when ever I go outside and see the colours in the opal in the sun, I will feel him with me…..and I do.” — That sounds wonderful.
“For some reason, people give me their jewellery from their ex partners. I have recently parted with it all because I could not stand the energy coming off it. I had an engagement ring, a wedding band from different people, a friendship ring from another, I couldn’t get rid of it for years in case they got back with their partners and would like it back. But I came to the conclusion that it’s not my responsibility.” — That would make me uncomfortable too. I agree. It’s not your responsibility to hold on to these items.
How would you describe the energy from these objects? Did you feel an emotion? Is it experienced as heat/cold? Does it vary? When you hold one of the objects, do you feel a change in your energy field?
“I also get left jewellery from people who pass, or precious stones, coin collections etc…..I also feel energy from this.”– If it’s okay to ask, what do you feel from these? Is each one different?
“When someone gives a gift to someone they impart energy/ intent on that object, it’s why when people part ways in relationships they want to be rid of the objects given as reminders of memories/ energy. Or when ppl pass they want their most treasured items to be left to ones they know will cherish and care for them, part of their energy remains behind.” — That makes sense.
“I also get drawn to object energetically, I love to collect, or sell art, antiques, etc. In one of my treasure hunts I kept getting drawn to an irredescent shell beaded necklace, turns out it was an antique Aboriginal Tasmanian necklace and highly collectable, I felt the energy off that, and could feel it was something special.” — Very cool. Have you ever encountered something that you believed to be haunted/possessed? Are you drawn immediately upon entering an antique shop to certain objects or do you only know once you see it?
Thank you!
Hi Dani,
“I also get left jewellery from people who pass, or precious stones, coin collections etc…..I also feel energy from this.”– If it’s okay to ask, what do you feel from these? Is each one different? Yes. Different jewellery or objects from different people carry energy unique to the object. As I have emotional connection to those people they also evoke memories and those memories hold emotional energy. For example my grandmother on my mothers side left me her jewellery, and the energy of those is heavy, she was narcissistic. This passed to my mother who is in the narc spectrum. Part of me keeps it out of duty, the other part keeps it as a reminder to myself of why the relationship with my mother is how it is. From my grandfather the jewellery and stones he left exude a protective and loving energy like a talisman. I keep them together, to balance. I don’t feel heat or cold when I tough them. More my heart feels it. It’s hard to explain the feeling. Like a weak current I guess.
I get drawn to an object, in antique shops, I can feel it. I have been drawn to old books, and letters/ photos have fallen out. To a bag full of junk jewellery to find a gold wedding band….etc
I once woke in the middle of the night at my grandparents house, to see a tall man peering over me. It was like a shadow but not, a clear silhouette. I thought it was my dad, and I got up to look for him. He wasn’t there. The next morning I told my grandfather, he thought for a moment before he told me that the building apprentice that helped build my grandparents home had died at the house in an accident. He thought it may have been him. In the house I live now which is over 100 years old, I seen a man, every now and then run down the hallway. I told myself I was just seeing things. Until one morning my little boy woke up and said mum who is the man that keeps running down the hall? I have never felt any malice etc though from these experiences.
Hi Emc2gion,
“I don’t feel heat or cold when I tough them. More my heart feels it. It’s hard to explain the feeling. Like a weak current I guess.” Fascinating.
“I get drawn to an object, in antique shops, I can feel it. I have been drawn to old books, and letters/ photos have fallen out. To a bag full of junk jewellery to find a gold wedding band….etc” — COOL!
“I once woke in the middle of the night at my grandparents house, to see a tall man peering over me. It was like a shadow but not, a clear silhouette. I thought it was my dad, and I got up to look for him. He wasn’t there. The next morning I told my grandfather, he thought for a moment before he told me that the building apprentice that helped build my grandparents home had died at the house in an accident. He thought it may have been him. In the house I live now which is over 100 years old, I seen a man, every now and then run down the hallway. I told myself I was just seeing things. Until one morning my little boy woke up and said mum who is the man that keeps running down the hall? I have never felt any malice etc though from these experiences.”
Have you ever imparted energy to something you’ve created? i.e. a painting/craft or the like for a friend/family member? If so, what is your experience seeing it after some time?
Hi Dani,
Yes I infuse my energy into my artwork. Mostly I give it as gifts to friends/ fam etc, so it’s given with love. I usually want to improve my artwork after I see it years later. The perfectionist in me I guess. Or my thoughts and ideas/ techniques/ energy have changed, so I feel the energy is old energy for me personally.
Contagious.
This is interesting to read. I myself am able to do palm readings and also tarot. I also agree with you. I do not believe in tarot readings for fun.
I am also able to see what may happen, and predict how people are thinking.
I do have empathic traits, but do not consider myself to be an empath.
Interesting to read about the tingly feeling. I have experienced this too.
Thanks for sharing.
Hi Anna:)) why are you considering yourself not an empath?
Hi Jordyguin.
I am empathic. But I score very high on the dark tetrad. I fight every day to stay good and remain in the light. Therapy helps too of course.
I see it is important to protect the good from the evil. To keep the light on and fight off the darkness.
I have great respect for HG for helping people see, identify and fight the darkness.
I feel emotions more deeply than others, sometimes it is very painful.
There is this quote
“Whoever fights
monsters should
see to it that in
the process he does
not become a monster.
And if you gaze long
enough into an abyss,
the abyss will gaze
back into you.
by
Friedrich Nietzsche”
Hello Anna–
May I ask what interested you to palm reading and Tarot? I know a little about Tarot, having had a few friends who enjoyed it and placed varying levels of stock in it. I know very little about palm reading.
Do you find you get different tingling from different Tarot decks? (My friends have multiple decks.) I have not done a Tarot reading in many years, but I remember the different decks feeling different.
Are you interested in other means of divination? (For lack of a better term) Tasseography, scrying, or cleromancy? Have you experienced any of them?
Hi Dani,
I have always been attracted to palm reading and tarot since I was a child. A medium said I was a natural.
It is though just a hobby.
“Are you interested in other means of divination? (For lack of a better term) Tasseography, scrying, or cleromancy? Have you experienced any of them?
No, I have heard but never tried. I like how Tasseography is named after the German word for cup/mug “Tasse”
That’s interesting that you get a tingle from the Tarot cards. I’ve heard others say the same, and when I’ve done Tarot readings (with a friend who was very into Tarot), I got a feeling from certain cards and not others. There was one card that showed up in every reading, and for some reason, I generally had readings that were were 80% major arcana (I understand from speaking to a couple of people who do Tarot more seriously that this is unusual). I don’t know what the explanation is for it…maybe just coincidence…I don’t know that I put much stock in Tarot, but it can be fun. And if it helps some people feel better direction with what they’re doing (which is how my friend was using the cards at that time), then I think it’s good.
Hello Jordyguin,
Thank you for sharing. I’ve noticed some other information that makes me think of things a little differently. I’d love to read your thoughts.
Before encountering HG’s work, I also thought “empaths = contagions” and that was it. I really appreciate the way HG breaks down the way he sees the variety of people who really care about others (empaths) vs people who don’t give a crap about others (narcs).
“But Contagion is a separate school, so contagion empathy must be different from the beginning.”
Yes, I would think the capacity to have this school would be present from the beginning. HG says that the capacity for becoming a narcissist is in the genetic predisposition and the lack of control environment (different varieties; golden child, neglect, etc.). My understanding from HG is that super empaths come from an abusive environment as well.
During the 100K interviews, there were a variety of empaths (who identified themselves as having been determined via HG’s empath detector). There were two (I think) perfect four way splits. There was a super empath (Sam of the new “Tea with Sam and HG.” Excited for more.). There were some standard empaths. Doug, in one of his interviews with HG, went over his results from an empath detector. He was a majority super empath with ?insignificant (as HG put it, I think)? contagion.
HG has also said in different YouTube videos when talking about the different schools of empaths that there are ways to bring out minority schools. I don’t remember exactly how HG put it, but as I understood from him, if you have an empath majority standard with significant codependent we’ll say, it just takes finding the right key to open the front door and you can switch them from standard to codependent. Similarly, HG has said that for an empath to go supernova they must have some part, no matter how small, of the super empath. Keeping with a house analogy, break enough windows, get a supernova.
I guess my next question is…can the contagion school, if a significant or insignificant minority in an empath, be brought out (to varying degrees perhaps) similar to the supernova or the codependency? Can a nefarious narc take out whatever security system is in place…I guess.
Hi Dani,
I know you were speaking to Jordyguin so I’m hoping it’s okay if I reply also.
HG has said that all empath’s have some bit of Contagion. I think, to me anyway, that says that all might have the capacity for becoming Contagion but different factors will affect whether that happens or not.
I am a Standard majority who had a very abusive upbringing, I am not the only one here either, but what that tells me it’s that a lot of factors played into that development in me, the abuse but also other things. So many variables. FYC recently gave a great list of what can affect things on the monster Harry’s Wife thread.
If, as with your example, the majority Standard with the insignificant CoD does use the CoD response, something specific caused it to occur and it will be a temporary switch, the person will still be Standard afterward. I have majority Standard with very strong Super, close enough that in my case it is almost a non issue. But that said, I find I live much more in the Standard mode day to day and the Super comes out only in certain circumstances, nothing I do causes it, it’s spontaneous to a situation. Not being around narcissists causes it to really fade into the background, in most ways. Just my experience with it. My daughter has some Contagion, I’ve seen her react from it, it’s something unlike anything I’ve ever experienced, visibly visceral, left her depleted and shaken. Her strong reaction shook me up even, it was that strong. But short lived and then she was back to her majority CoD mode.
Hope this helps. AV
Oh no, reading down this thread, I see I was mistaken, HG says NOT all empath’s have Contagion, please forgive me! I think the rest of my previous comment is correct…
Hi AV–
Thank you so much for responding. It helps.
I’m sure there are many factors that play into which type of empath forms. HG has said he will teach us more in time, and one of his recent YouTube interviews was more about empaths.
If you don’t mind sharing, have you noticed any similarities in the situations/behaviours you’re being exposed to that bring out the super empath side? Has there typically been a narcissist involved or has it been in response to a dime-a-dozen jerk? Have you known the person well who brings the super out or has it been more in response to strangers? How do you feel afterwards?
What does it mean for you ‘operating much more in standard’ mode? I understand from what I’ve heard HG say that super empaths are less like to tolerate naughty narc behavior for long. How does standard differ in your experience from the super and codependent?
Knowing that your daughter’s contagion experience was brief, but intense, is quite interesting. Was it a response to a particular person or event, if that’s something you’re comfortable sharing?
Thank you so much for sharing.
Hi Dani, yes, very specifically, when I am pushed in specific ways, my Super will come out. I now recognize those ways as when I am being manipulated or coerced. The line goes down and that’s it. I have extremely little patience for this, always have, except with the romantic situations I’ve had, 4 of those, 2 were very short lived because this did come out. Two were longer, it took me longer to realize what was happening. The short lived ones, one was a lesser, so obvious and I ran, the other I think may have been a LMR, not as effective at the facade as the two long term ones were. This has happened with many women, only one that lasted a couple of years as a friend and I saw the behaviors for a good 6 months but didn’t act because I couldn’t believe it. She’s gone now too. But most women, it’s much sooner, they irritate me, the line goes down and that’s it. They may not all be narcs but if they come across to me as playing games I don’t tolerate that at all.
The most ongoing and powerful reactions have been to those I’ve known well. The attempts to work things out and then the realization it will not happen, the line, the walking away. I feel relieved and forward looking afterward, like good riddance. It is a washing of my hands of that person. Hoovers have not been tried to speak of after that point and if they were, they were not successful.
I can’t speak from personal experience to how the Standard and Super differ from the CoD since I have none of that but the Standard, for me, is day to day more likely to overlook more, just go about my business and try to have peace. The Super will kick in if someone is sharp with me unnecessarily, I will assess how to respond to that or if there is abuse witnessed, I won’t necessarily confront directly but will take steps to address it legally or with some authority that can do so effectively. It’s similar but the Standard is more mild, it’s my comfort zone, the Super I’m capable of but i don’t like having to go there but if I do, things get done. You may get more understanding from HG’s articles about the various Empaths also. I found those quite helpful.
As for my daughter and her Contagion element, it is insignificant, but one place I’ve seen it was in response to people at her paternal grandpa’s funeral. There are a lot of highly emotional people on that side of her family, being around that all day was very stressful for her, she basically lived the emotions with each person she talked to. Losing her grandpa was sad but it didn’t affect her in and of itself nearly as much as the people at the funeral did. She got really drunk that night, I think as a release from it all. Not a typical thing for her to do at all. I have seen it also three times after she has dealt with narc situations and two of those the police were involved. It was terrifying to see, for me, I didn’t know if she’d be okay afterwards, I didn’t know about narcissism or her empathy at that time. One police woman was trying to make her understand the danger she was in and I watched my daughter absorb the officer’s concern. It was a good thing, it motivated her to act but first she had to calm herself. She struggles with anxiety, I think it is this element that causes that in her. She is very connected to nature also, it’s her happy place and brings her back down to stability after her week of working in health care.
Hi AV,
Thank you for such a thorough response.
“This has happened with many women, only one that lasted a couple of years as a friend and I saw the behaviors for a good 6 months but didn’t act because I couldn’t believe it.”
Were you witnessing more unpleasant behaviors directed at you (NISS) during that six month period? Or was the problem seeing more how she was treating others?
“They may not all be narcs but if they come across to me as playing games I don’t tolerate that at all.”
I can understand not wanting to be involved in the games. Do you ever worry that you’re too quick in pushing the eject button? I think that’s what HG would call emotional thinking and something best not done.
“You may get more understanding from HG’s articles about the various Empaths also. I found those quite helpful.”
I shall take advantage of the search function. I’ve seen a few of the empath videos HG made on his old YouTube channel, Knowing the Narcissist. Excellent videos.
I’m so glad that your daughter got out of those situations. I hope that she’s doing well. Thank you for sharing. It really helps.
Hi Dani,
You’re welcome. I have enjoyed our chat, so thank you also!
With the other woman, it was both, things directed at me and also things that she was doing to others. It was only directed at me when I questioned anything, usually how she was treating others. It was a challenge and she would shut my questions down quickly, then sometimes follow up with a bit of devaluation of some kind, sometimes not.
I don’t worry about being too quick in ejecting people. I worry much more about questioning whether I should eject and in the meantime playing games with my own head, rationalizing bad behaviors etc to keep the relationship together. With my history, this is the best way for me to be at this time. Rather than being ET, it keeps me from ET. I am gaining confidence in spotting things and as that grows I will likely reject less, and less quickly. But also, this will likely sound cold and I apologize in advance, but there are 8 billion people on the planet, I don’t worry about running short on people that are not going to play games. When I question someone and they are significant to me already, if I have enough doubts, I ask HG, do an NDC. Most people are not that significant to me though.
One other thing, I saw a comment you had written to someone else, asking if they experienced the supernova’s or the cliff fightback. I don’t believe I have ever experienced a cliff fightback, I either walked away or it was a supernova. And interestingly each were in about the same percentage as my percentage of each, Standard and Super.
My daughter is doing very well thank you. I am glad it I have been able to help. Nice chatting.
Not surprised. Nature is essential to regenerating if a contagion. Lovely girl you have! Well done! So often people speak of parents or those who were narcs or empaths growing up. But what about our kids? I was worried as my sensitive, compassionate responsible, hetero boxer son joined the marines. They train to kill. He was deployed to Iraq. When bombed I asked him if afraid he responded “ sure my adrenaline was up but we run to danger not away from it.” He didn’t want his friends to tell me to protect me and contacted me from Iraq. HG reassure me military was different. Narcs don’t get trained to be narcs. Just because he was trained to kill didn’t make him a narc. Two stories. So proud. My son smoked pot and played video games. I am a single mother on an excellent relationship with his “ pop in” dad. When he was 28, leaving for boot camp, he actually apologized for his teen behavior and said I gave him everything a child could want. I was a great mom and thanks. I cry now writing this as he is now 6 years in. How lucky am I? Second, I asked him about the people of Iraq. He said they were good people, it is some people in the government not them. He said he would see these beat up trucks with third grade weapons try to “ bomb” the enemy but they are poor people without our advantages. WOW. No one would at a glance think my 6’3’ body hard boxer since 14 and marine of 6?years was an empath but I have seen it time and time again. His friends are the same from kindergarten. Loyal. Loving family. I could go on. And my daughter, different dad but the antisocial raised them both from 1 on. We were together 7.0 years total. My ex a diagnosed antisocial spoke of family and money. His only friends are family and he values them but in a different way.I wait on HG on psychopaths , antisocials: do they differ? Versus narcs. My ex was not a narc but his empathy well? Not really there. But he did see his children as part of him. Like cars. He loved his rolls Royce’s and took care of them well. Insanely well. When his son D from his first marriage needed help with drug addiction ( and crimes), my ex husband bought another rolls Royce but said counseling and private schools was “ too expensive” yet he paid for criminal defense attorneys and helped with rehab to a limited extent and his son is expected and must show up at holidays. His other daughter although bipolar is an obvious empath as is our daughter. Neither appear to have contagian empath but empaths all the same. They are very compassionate strong loving people. I have written before about my experiences coparenting with an antisocial. He did teach them to commit crimes when young ie run into a movie theater, don’t pay. He taught my daughter how to fight as he loves boxing too, and business and math. She does high math as a computer science major on full scholarship (80,000$ a year savings plus) at LMU in LA. While my mother was a banker, I do think her dad was positive in teaching business, entrepreneurship ( she has had businesses online, etc…). I always write to give hope if you must coparent with someone like my ex. It turned out ok! Actually, better than my wildest dreams. Now… my daughter did say her father does not like me…. “That’s ok honey… it’s not what he thinks of me that matters, it’s you. And he is clearly proud of you! Who wouldn’t be?”
AV, Dani
I believe some Borderlines
(and fearful avoidants) are mistakenly seen as Contagion empaths, isn’t it so, HG?
They may seek to portray themselves as such.
Ah, ok, I have noticed this in real bona fide Borderline empaths (not just Midrange narc). When they say something like ‘I fear that person is after me’ I get the impression that they are very very sensitive, hence my confusing them with Contagions.
And in terms of the Borderlines, you say perhaps half are narcissists and the other half are people with PTSD?
No, more than half are narcissists.
Borderline energy is too much. As a contagion the energy from a borderline drains me terribly. If I have been in contact with a borderline closely for a good period of time, it can take weeks to recover. It’s so erratic. Hg I imagine a true borderline could give fuel both positive and negative to a narcissist?
I do not categorise with reference to borderline.
Please explain. I can’t possibly see how a BOD, Narc or PTSD can portray themselves as contagian only to pretend to be. Maybe that’s it. Mirroring. Also HG I found a real new article on dreaming. It involves Alan Alda. It has to do with damage to neurons during REM Sleeping. I guess there is a link to Parkinson’s disease. I believe contagians have a similarity in dreams. Lucid. Believed by the author of Sleep (uk 2022). Your blog indicates it through members. So much is unknown about dreams. But we know our brain uses 30% more capacity asleep than awake. What I found interesting is this break from unconscious to conscious. Alan found himself physically fighting although asleep during REM dreaming ( where lucid dreams come from). I found it personally interesting as most of the subjects were in fight and flight mode. Fear. Whereas my lucid dreams never involve conflict usually only beauty. Nurture. Also I have RLS in the family of Parkinson’s. It’s a Northern European disease. It sleep. To me who reads all she can on this subject. Interesting. I think antisocials and narcs dream differently too. There is something there. Wonder what Freud or Jung would say? Sorry about my off topic focus on the subconscious but I feel there is something there that at least explains contagians.
Sorry HG I think I may be confused about the borderline. Is it that you don’t categorise Borderline Personality Disorder due to you determining about half are MRN and the other half normals or empaths with PTSD so it doesn’t exist?I have a few friends & family members diagnosed with BPD and I can only be around them for short periods, due to their energy. Perhaps they are MRN but their energy is way more heightened than normal MRN I have encountered and always my intuition is warning me because something bad always follows. It’s different to PTSD energy as well….PTSD is normally fear/ trauma based energy.
Watch the video The Borderline, saves me repeating myself.
But do they realise they are doing it?
To be fair HG, before I came across your work I knew about empathy but had no idea about the concept of “Empaths” let alone the different schools of empath.
“Dani says
And in terms of the Borderlines, you say perhaps half are narcissists and the other half are people with PTSD?”
“HG says
No, more than half are narcissists.”
Please clarify HG. You said you never said Borderline were narcissist and yet you say it here. I am just confused. I know websites and forum are notorious for misunderstandings. I am here to learn not to criticise. I am just very confused now.
You said that I stated that borderlines are narcissists, I did not state that, I stated that some have PTSD and are misdiagnosed and that more than half of borderlines are narcissists, that is not the same as saying that “borderlines are narcissists”. That is clear, it is you that is trying to misrepresent what I have stated and thus cause confusion.
Hi AC,
Thank you for asking this. I was trying to ask about which sorts of people might try to portray themselves as contagions.
Daniel, yes, when I have spoken to ppl who are the personality type of princess Diana, the empathic borderline, they have been very sensitive to people around them, of course because of childhood trauma or being surrounded by narcissists, and if I hadn’t known better, I would have thought “Diana was probably a Contagion.”
So I easily mix up the two.
@Contagious
I would also like to thank you for clarifying one major difference between Contagion empaths and Borderline empaths, namely that Contagion s are not so sensitive to criticism, I hadn’t thought of that.
I guess Borderline empaths have gone through heaps of abuse from a narcissist and are therefore more sensitive.
/Cat
Dani: Here is what I get. BPD sometimes is PTSD or CPTSP or a Narc or… a BPD in an episode that has no empathy. The key is the lack of empathy when abusive behavior occurs in this scenario. The point is BPD often has an element of harming another. It might involve a tragic figure someone who was raped, abused, etc… who suffers episodes of damage to others. I have seen it. My bf daughter has been diagnosed BPD. If angry at her mother, she will take pills, cut, attack etc…it’s attention seeking to get help or attention for what she is suffering. But if you just want your child to do her homework, the damage is bad if beaten to a pulp. The damage BPD does should equate to the sympathy the person who has it should receive. I am not sophisticated enough to know the difference between PTSD and or CPTSD as opposed to a narc or BPD. The damage is the same. I do know that PTSD is short lived. Triggered by certain things under certain circumstances whereas BPD is like Narcs…. Ever present. Tbh I listened to HG on BPD, and I agreed. Cluster B. Also I have read that Those who have BPD are more likely diagnosed as women and more likely there is a horrible trigger or cause. I feel for them. But some go on to become mothers or spouses etc… and their damage causes more damage. It’s not a judgment on BPD to want a stop to the harm they cause. You can sympathize with the cause while wanting the harm to stop. And I must say it’s easier for me to say that than a man, as a woman, because there are so many who identify themselves as BPD women who suffer due to horrible circumstances and are online. Also I am well aware BPD men etc… men are BPD too. The point is this personality disorder is dramatic and erratic often and causes harm even. When they harm themselves. It’s bad. I wish there was a cure. My best friends kid was in and out of institutions and hospitals and medicated nonstop like a Guinea pig. Through maturity, better not cured. Still medicated. My bf survived it beaten, broke and still hoping her child succeeds. BPD is a rough one. I just see hitting someone, threatening to kill yourself in cases of making a point, etc.. as no empathy. Her daughter does it to get her way, manipulative but RISKY, no one wants to see someone die but how fair is it when someone does it to manipulate? No one wants to address that but it’s fact. Thank God for the treatments today. There are good ones.
Hello Contagious–
“The damage BPD does should equate to the sympathy the person who has it should receive.”
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re saying “more damage = less sympathy.” If I’m misinterpreting you, please tell me. I can understand that perspective, with the story that you’ve related. I don’t know that I agree (if I’m correctly understanding), and I don’t know that I disagree. It’s something to think about.
I don’t see any similarity with BPD and contagian. HG feels many are narcs or PTSD. For example, although contagians like me might be sensitive to emotions we are not or I am not hypersensitive to criticism or perceived criticism. Fuck off. I know who I am. And there is nosuicide attempts or cutting or unstable relations. Not in my life. I really don’t get this. Sorry please provide your analysis
Hello Contagious,
HG does say that more than half of BPD diagnoses should be NPD. He lays out a very good argument in his video “The Borderline.”
What if a majority contagion has depression and/or is ‘absorbing’ depression from someone frequently around them (and they don’t realize it’s not coming from them)?
I understand from Emc2gion that their experience is that it’s one on top of another. Depression on top of depression. It’s an external stressor that I think might result in the suicide attempts.
I also see how if close friends or family are experiencing upheaval (job loss, death, divorce, etc.) that emotional instability could be experienced by a majority contagion, particularly depending on the emotional/physical proximity to the situation. Constantly hearing the anger of your parents arguing or finding a parent stressing over finances or one in tears after the argument. I don’t even think there need be a narcissist involved here to cause the fluctuations (though I imagine it would get worse if there were). Then if that contagion begins acting out because of emotional overload, there would be criticism from many people whether they are normal, empath, narcissistic, or a narcissist. I think it would be worse if that contagion didn’t know they were sensitive at that level to others.
I think sometimes people see the ‘excessive sensitivity’ alone as indicative of BPD. But it takes a lot more than that (based on my limited knowledge and understanding of personality disorders and psychology) to diagnose something like BPD/PPD/NPD/OCPD, etc.
I like how confident you are about yourself above. Knowing what’s you and what isn’t.
Those are my thoughts…curious to hear what others are thinking.
HG was is an empath borderline? I am not aware of it. I agree with you that BPD are narcs ( ok with a twist) or PTSD ( includes CPTSD. I think there is no empathy with BPD. They scream, threat, get violent, manipulate.control. Even suicide attempts are often designed. Attention. While sensitive to criticism or perceived criticism, they react without empathy to others. PTSD does the same but only in limited bursts. Triggered. They have empathy otherwise. What is a borderline empath? Or an empathic borderline? I don’t understand.
Hello Contagious–
My understanding is (according to HG):
An empath can be (mis)diagnosed with BPD. HG says they don’t have BPD; they have PTSD or CPTSD. This is the type of person whom the mental health practitioner can eventually “cure” of their BPD.
Likewise, someone (not an empath), likely a narcissist…can also be diagnosed with BPD. (There is quite a bit of overlap in the diagnostic criteria for Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD), Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). My understanding is that HG sees all three of these disorders as being different classes of narcissist in his classification system.
If you want the more details from HG (in his velvety chocolatey voice) on this (which will undoubtedly be more thorough than my summaries), you can search YouTube “HG Tudor Borderline” or if you want another example, there’s a video titled something like, “Amber Heard: Is she a borderline or histrionic?” HG explains his perspective quite well in both of those videos.
“I think the intuition or sensitivity contagians have is not the same as a hypersensitive or paranoia to attack.”
Yes. I would generally agree they are different. That doesn’t mean that most of the world’s population won’t equate them to some degree, through misunderstanding or ignorance (or lack of exposure to HG’s excellent information).
“I also seem ignorant on empaths being formed from an abusive environment.”
HG has said that not all empaths result from abuse. (I don’t recall a good source for that off the top of my head.) But there is a playlist on YouTube “The Empath.” I recall hearing somewhere in the 3000+ videos (HG has graciously provided to us for free) that empaths can come from all sorts of parental environments. If I recall correctly, he has also said that the type of environment plays a role in the type of empath that is formed. I don’t recall hearing much more than passing info about that, BUT HG says he is working on gathering that type of information to share in the future. (Sounds like a massive undertaking, organizing all that information. I work in an information science job. It takes time to get it done, and HG is a busy man. But when we get it, we can count on HG’s thoroughness, I should think.)
“So is it possible an empath can become an empath trying to save an empath?” — A wonderful question for HG.
I hope this helps.
I think it is very sad, that we have all this technology and yet mental illness is still misunderstood and not treated accordingly.
HG provides us with information about narcissists which is amazing. Sadly though unlike physical illness mental health is not treated properly.
Many disorders such as BPD are misunderstood, discriminated against and not treated. The loved ones, family, friends plus the individual suffer because of this. I hope in the future mental illness will be understood and treated better so people can lead fulfilling lives.
Hi Dani! I don’t see it. It’s an oxymoron. Borderlines by definition lack empathy. I don’t know anything about fearful avoidants but it sounds like an attachment style from
Childhood. I think the intuition or sensitivity contagians have is not the same as a hypersensitive or paranoia to attack. Rather we are mentalists or sponges that pick up on exactly what’s going on with someone emotionally without a defense mechanism in place. For some including myself at times, you get drained. Nature is essential and retreat to regroup. I imagine some do yoga or meditation maybe are runners. I do yoga daily but am not a meditator or a runner, etc… there are many ways to rejuvenate yourself from being overwhelmed but isolation helps.we need HG to define contagian more as there seems to be a thread about it or perception of being related to Borderline due to the hypersensitivity of borderlines. I don’t see it at all. I also seem ignorant on empaths being formed from an abusive environment. My father was an alcoholic but brimming with empathy. My mother is possibly a narc or a normal from a WASPY background. She is a good person. . My fathers illness effected me. A lot. He was an empath I wanted to save from drinking ( and depression from being a Vietnam vet). So is it possible an empath can become an empath trying to save an empath? I was daddy’s girl. Yup. His greatest fan. He was a musician too. Talented. We were best friends up and until his day of death. He gave me the greatest gift a father could give. He said “ I am not afraid to die. I believe and God and he is with me. Listen. It’s all small stuff in the end. I forgive your mother. It is small stuff. What matters in the end is my children and my love if God. Don’t waste your time in the small stuff. Fix the issues with your brother. You are ten of them. Use your compassion. Do right by God. I love you.” What more than teaching a child at the end that death is ok can a father give? So since I came from a family not perfect … and I come from a line of many many many many empaths… there are narcs like my horrible abusive maternal grandfather, I am not sure empaths are created solely by some narc reaction. HG? Guidance?
Firstly, HG believes Borderlines are narcissists. This is his opinion.
Secondly I find the lack of empathy and understanding towards those who suffer from BPD outrageous and disgusting. They are stigmatised. Feel emotions more than others which has been proven with brain scans. The living hell of this they experience every day. There are different types of borderlines. Some are high functioning. Many misunderstood, all desperate for help. They often go to therapy unlike narcissists who believe there is nothing wrong with them.
HG is entitled to his opinion. Remember it is just an opinion. He is the master of narcissists. Not of the borderline and he has no empathy. Remember that wisely.
Firstly, once again Anna, you are wrong. I do not believe borderlines are narcissists. Watch my video about Borderlines so you can quote me accurately.
Secondly, remember, you are just expressing an opinion, an ill informed one.
HG thank you for your reply.
I could not find the reply button under your reply so I hope this comment turns up in the right place.
I watched the video. Maybe I misinterpreted it, but it sounded to me like you have the opinion that borderline is either trauma based or a form of narcissism. This is my perception of the video and how I understood it.
MRI’s have shown that those who suffer with BPD have high activity in their amygdala and are unable to regulate emotions like neurotypical people can. That they experience emotions more deeply. My opinion came from both personal experience and reading about MRI scan results from scientific literature.
Hi Dani,
I guess my next question is…can the contagion school, if a significant or insignificant minority in an empath, be brought out (to varying degrees perhaps) similar to the supernova or the codependency? Can a nefarious narc take out whatever security system is in place…I guess.
Interesting thoughts here. I am contagion and have a minority super. I have gone supernova a few times on narcs, not my normal response but the situation was extreme each time. The super kicked in as a defence.
“The super kicked in as a defence.” Yes. The super does seem more like a defence mechanism of sorts; the more super empath one is, the quicker the narc gets noticed and the more quickly they get rid of them or walk away. As I understand.
I don’t see how the contagion as a minority would function. It’s certainly not a security feature. It’s more…I don’t know that I have a good analogy…?a dream come true for a job well done? if the person is a deserving one….or ?a nightmare if the intruder is a narc?
If you don’t mind sharing, when the super kicked in, did the sensitivity you feel for all recede in prominence as felt for the narcissist on the receiving end?
Hi Dani,
When the super kicked in I was about to be physically attacked, I still felt the hate and rage from the narc, but the super made me defend myself, and the narc left.
Hi Emc2gion,
I’m so glad you were able to defend yourself, and I’m sorry you were in a position of being physically attacked.
Emc2gion,
Your comment resonates with me. I can relate to feeling the emotions of another and also using a defensive kind of ‘pushback’ in response. It’s a combination of both the contagion element and the super element. The two work in unison rather than separately.
Your comment also reminds me of the death of Tyre Nichols, the 27-year-old man who was bashed by a group of policemen in the US and died in hospital three days later as a result of his extensive injuries.
In recent weeks, I have been thinking about the Tyre Nichols case. It’s tragic and sickening. I also find it perplexing too, because it’s not a case of white policemen against a black man and it can’t be easily defined as a ‘racist attack’.
In regards to contagion empathy working in unison with super empathy, when I watched parts of the police cam video of Tyre Nichols being apprehended, chased and then bashed, I can now identify my own reactions when watching that.
Firstly, when Tyre was pulled roughly out of his car by one policeman and shouted at to get on the ground, he was absolutely terrified. He was surrounded by policemen and his facial expressions and body language showed he was petrified. He wanted to follow the directions and said something to the effect of, “ok, ok, I’m getting down, ok!” but he also wanted to escape because he was frightened about what would happen to him.
In that instance, the policemen were woefully ineffective at ‘controlling’ the situation. There wasn’t one police officer who could use his empathy to relate to Tyre’s distress. Instead of calming the situation, they used force and aggression which exacerbated things instead.
In that situation, I think a super empath’s response would be to react to the policemen who were using aggression and force. I’m thinking about what I would do if I was one of the policement. I would attempt to talk to the other police or do something in order to try and slow things down or redirect their attention to diffuse the aggression. As a super empath, I think I would feel Tyre’s fear and try to stop the other police from using such force.
I’m reminded of the police video HG analysed a couple of months ago in which a policewoman grabbed another police officer by the belt and pulled him away as he was aggressively shouting at a person who was stopped by police. It was a similar kind of altercation where the person who was stopped would not cooperate with the police.
When I think of this in more detail, the contagion empathy and the super empathy work instinctively together. It’s not a case of stopping and thinking about either one. It’s more a case of feeling (via the contagion) and reacting (via the super).
Also, it’s interesting that when I think of what I would do personally if I was in that situation, I don’t think about the consequences to myself of reacting in that way. I don’t ‘forward plan’ that the policemen would then retaliate towards me. For example, if I stepped in and tried to protect Tyre and tell the other policemen to back off, I don’t envisage that they could then push me away or tell me I’m being soft or lenient. I just act on the basis of my own contagion empathy.
When I consider that I don’t have any CoD element, it makes me think that the CoD may instinctively act with a sense of their own personal safety. From experience, I have seen that CoD’s think about (whether instinctively or not) what the consequences will be for themselves. Their tenacity – while appearing to be selfless – is actually self-serving in a wider context. That’s how I tend to see it, anyway.
Hi Dani, I do not personally agree that being a super empath causes you to notice the narcs sooner. As a contagion, I spent many many years absorbing the chaos of a narcissist. Only to finally escape, and immediately be scooped up “saved” by another narcissist. I can claim to have been young and stupid, but now I believe I was caught up in all of the energy. It’s not until you become self aware, and understand what is going on around you that you can have any type of real control.
Looking back, I can see that my super had kicked in at multiple times, but because I was unknowing, it was
just more of a challenge to my narcissist.
Hi Dragonfly2765,
“I do not personally agree that being a super empath causes you to notice the narcs sooner.”
You’re right that awareness is the most important part.
In HG’s article, “The Super Empath,” he says:
“The downside is the potential for the Super Empath becoming “aware” of what is happening, becoming unwilling to dedicate further energy to staying with the narcissist to fix and to heal and thus escaping.”
AND
“The risk factor however with a Super Empath is that their own personal integrity is greater than the empath’s and very much greater than that of the co-dependent and consequently of all these three classes of empath, the Super Empath is the one more likely to make a bid for escape and thus leave the narcissist with a cessation problem.”
I don’t know that they’re aware that they are a super empath at that point. I don’t know that they would readily attach the word ‘narcissist’ to their abuser. But my understanding from HG is that because the super empath has “greater personal integrity” than a co-dependent or standard, this makes them more likely to try to escape. I would interpret that as awareness of a sort. Similarly, the line super empaths draw when devaluation begins, to me, also is awareness of sorts. That doesn’t mean they can’t be hoovered right back in. I’m sure HG has many a tale of the super empath he’s hoovered.
He doesn’t mention the contagion in the Super Empath article. He only compares the super, there, to codependents and standard empaths. So I don’t know what the comparison is like for contagions. Information about contagions is somewhat sparse, likely due to being the rarest school. I hope HG shares that with us soon.
“I can claim to have been young and stupid, but now I believe I was caught up in all of the energy.”
I don’t understand exactly what you mean by this. Do you feel you have been addicted to the energy/emotions of a specific person more than others?
If you know and don’t mind sharing, what types of narcissists were they? What role, if any, do you think that played? HG says that specific narcissists target, consciously if a greater or the Ultra and unconsciously if lesser or midrange, specific empaths.
If you don’t mind sharing, do you feel you more experienced a supernova or a cliff fightback when your super kicked in?
Thank you so much for sharing. I’d love to read more of your thoughts.
Hi Dani, I didn’t clarify before that I am majority contagion. And 28% Super. When I said “I can claim to have been young and stupid, but now I believe I was caught up in all of the energy.” what I meant was that so much of my time was consumed trying to understand all of the chaotic emotions I was feeling.
I think a lot of those emotions were mine, but I also think that a lot of those emotions belong to the narcissist(s). It was like I was distracted by the chaotic energy. I was married to narc number one for 13 years. He was likely an ULN type B. Possibly a mid range though, because he was very big into the facade. According to the narc detector, my current narc, whom I’ve been married to for 22 years, is a Somatic ULN type A. Until I started reading HG’s work, none of it ever made sense. Now it all makes sense.
Hi Dragonfly! 28% Super, meaning a chance there for a Supernova, but then 22 years, so it never occurred.. Is your cadre Carrier? Would you mind sharing? Thank you!
“The Super Empath have a significant capacity for sustaining our abuse. They don’t roll over and doormat. The Super Empath can actually sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse without withdrawal without breaking down and without a steady erosion.”
And it makes sense why 22 years..
So your 28% Super also kicked in for the longevity of the relationship.
Hi Dani, the video The Empathic Supernova is also very interesting regarding the Super Empath and there is also a little bit Contagion mentioning. https://youtu.be/YxOjyjOIQgo
– The Super Empath have a significant capacity for sustaining our abuse. They don’t roll over and doormat. The Super Empath can actually sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse without withdrawal without breaking down and without a steady erosion. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Standard Empath there is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent and there is no necessity of instantaneous withdrawal to cleanse and to purify like the Contagion.
The Co-Dependent for instance can sustain considerable abuse and sudden like a light being extinguished that is it, they are gone they break down.
The Standard Empath can also sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual chipped away at.
The Contagion also can sustain reasonable degree of abuse but rather than break down, the Contagion tends to disappear having to divest themselves of the negative energy that they are experiencing as a consequence of the behavior of the narcissist.
– There are varying degrees and it is unusual to find an individual belonging wholly to one school. Instead you will have representation most of the time from at least two of the schools maybe three and maybe four.
– Most people have a majority categorization and one or more significant or insignificant minority elements. These significant minority elements are labeled as either strong minority, significant minority or insignificant minority.
– Some people are Hybrids, meaning that they have no majority element and they have two, three or four aspects from the group with non-prevailing. That is more unusual.
The Hybrid = all in one. Now „take out whatever security system is in place“ and you might have a Standard Monday, Super Tuesday, Co-D Wednesday, Contagion Thursday… (hypothetically)
Dragonfly2765,
I’m glad you’re finding clarity through HG’s work. I feel the same.
Hey Dani, my cadres are 30/30 carrier/savior, 22 geyser, and 17 martyr. So it makes sense that I’ve tolerated so much. Neither if my narcs were violent towards ME. They were with others. It was all mental. Narc 1 became more rageful and untruthful the older he got and I just reached the point where i had to get out for my kids sake. I believe this was where i had a supernova. No emotion. I was just cold and ended it and moved across the country.
Narc #2 was his friend and had been perusing me for two years. I managed to keep him at a distance while i was married. I knew nothing about narcissism back then. I was totally led by emotions. Narc 2 mirrored everything I wanted and hid the qualities he shared with my ex. Looking back i see many red flags. I don’t know how I missed them.
Over the years with narc 2 i was always spunky and spoke my mind. He enjoys the challenge and likes it when i get riled up to the point where i call him a name. The nastier the better After I discovered all the affairs, I was in shock and started reading about narcissism. HG is absolutely right. I am addicted to the narcissist. Why I didn’t immediately leave, i do not know… too worried about hurting him. Lol. I think the contagion part does not help me here. I even consoled a couple of his other women rather than get mad at them. I want to leave. The emotional thinking has its grip on me though.
Hi Dragonfly, I agree, my ex liked seeing my Super come out, he would bring it out and knew just how. Then he would sit there and watch it. He preferred that to my Standard actually. I think you are right, there is a point of self awareness that we need to get to for change to happen, world awareness also, in my case. Both of these happened exponentially in my case upon arriving at narcsite, much more than ever before in my life. I also agree that I don’t believe Supers necessarily notice narcs earlier, I think they react earlier, in ways that are beneficial to them, due to their personal integrity. A different school may react but may not do so in ways that will help themselves but rather still trying to help the narc or the relationship.
Because of something I read elsewhere, I will add that I was in a relationship for 32 years with my second husband, several Supernova type events early on and one big one at the end. The last one was finally “the end” but the previous ones I walked away believing I had brought things back to a place of health. I finally stopped having them for a long time because by that time we were married and I realized they were not bringing things back to health, they were only expending my energy and upsetting our children. So I stayed mostly in Standard mode for a number of years. I say this only to say that because someone has a supernova, it does not always mean they will end the relationship, that depends on a variety of factors.
And lastly, something else I saw… Wish I would’ve written to these two things where I saw them, anyway, my daughter has insignificant Contagion and even less Super but at the end of the significant relationships in her life she displayed both, the visible physical reaction and also the line and the end, never looking back. This is a little amazing since she is majority CoD, I have been so happy to see that bit of Super help her when she needed it. Even though at the time I had no idea about anything narc or empath related.
Hi Dragonfly2765,
“HG is absolutely right.” –He has a way of being so that I find comforting in ways.
“I am addicted to the narcissist.” –After listening to 100K interviews, I think that is a common sentiment of those who’ve been entangled with narcissists. It’s a statement that makes sense to me and some of my experiences as well, I think.
“I even consoled a couple of his other women rather than get mad at them.” I’ve not been in a situation like that. It sounds like utter mind-f***ery. I think not getting angry at the other women (who were also being abused and manipulated by him) shows compassion and understanding on your part. I think those are good traits.
From what I understand of your cadre breakdown, I think it makes perfect sense, too.
“The emotional thinking has its grip on me though.”
You’re in the best place I’ve found to get help with that. It’s one thing to know the advice, and another to take it, especially with emotional thinking involved.
I wish you well, Dragonfly2765. Thank you.
Hi Jordyguin,
Yes, the empathic supernova is a very good video. Full of good information. Plenty to think about; questions to ask when I find the right words. (I haven’t experienced a bad HG video. Some that are triggering and upsetting. Others that are eye-opening.)
Do you have a favorite go-to HG video/article?
Also, major side note, is English your second language? I’ve noticed you consistently place quotations differently. (I’m a language enthusiast.)
Hi dear Dani!
Well I saw HG making quotation „like this“ and – like this – and thought to myself; to hell with it, double proofed last longer😬👍
(Yes, I am bilingual and switching languages is a grammatical, punctuational and sentence structured mess at times🤦♀️All Tolkien languages would be a dream😍 What are yours?)
My favorite at the moment go-to HG video is, Destroy Emotional Thinking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DKXHsgVsck&list=PLwd9op9JpKOOlgs7a9Sx6bzhmffZMoXCG&index=33
Go-to Article? This is a hard one! Last summer I began to read the blog from the beginning via the archives and my bookmarks continue to pile up and there is no end in sight.
HG’s classification, terminology and explanation is amazingly different! His Morningstar light – shining brighter than of others – puts it on the spot! Thus quite important to take time (for me as a newbie as well) with maaaany stages he shines on. The articles, the comments, the books, the knowledge vault, the videos, the detectors, the consultations. The material is overwhelming and I know I’m not the only one who want quick answers, because the upside-down took us so long. HG correct the mislead position and we are as confused as amazed and don’t know where to look at, as we previously operated through different lenses, materials.
I’m so happy you joined the blog Dani, formulating the questions I also want to know the answers too! The dynamic becomes productive and we can share, compound and draw conclusions! Even if temporary in nature, it stimulate to dig deeper. As with contagion empathy for example – we see how majority Contagions can be different with resembling core elements, and Cadre plays a huge role as well.
What are your favorite go-to HG video/article so far?
I am still processing your new question from February 8. I think what you refer to in your question has to do with the ever-presence the narcissist created with the object he/she handed to you, as HG explain this in his articles. (I’ll post the link if I’ll find it, or maybe someone knows which one it is?)
Now if you add the Quantum-field, quantum-physics and theories, than yes you may state there is of course an energy-field the object consist of and the object contain the intent which was poured in to the object via the field of energy of the person. BUT I think it takes a very, how do I say? A very crafty person to do that consciously, of sort of shamanic and hypnotic nature and unconsciously via strong emotions, which create an imprint on the object (!theory). If we draw a line between the world of objects and the world of energy, than we can only speak of ever-presence and the psychological impact which was applied on to the object. If we add the energetic element – we refer to as contagions, who are connected to energy fields – than yes there is also an unseen, energetic connection with objects, its recipients, creators and whoever added on to them via energetic/emotional imprints.
Dani! Thank you for reminding me of HG ‘s work on contagians. I would agree. A contagian would eventually retreat from the negative energy exposure as opposed to a supernova. Of course! To me… it is to nature, to beauty, to religion, to reflect to love, to inner peace, to solitude. To confront directly ( I am 10% super and have done) would be to channel more anger as opposed to finding a balance or peace for the core being. Sorry about your attack. While angry thoughts or vengeance or righting wrongs has entered my mind, there are some things you can’t fix and even harboring these thoughts aren’t good. A fiery ball when thrown burns the one intended but also burns the thrower. I never regret an act of kindness but I have a few regrets over acting in anger. Although very few people I leave completely and if so I try on a positive note, there have been some whose erratic, dramatic or cruelty was not accepted as a risk for well being. I think when you leave, you leave a void that is noticed and felt. I think contagians are “ deep” people who provide a lot of emotional support, validity, good advice, people who are deeply supportive and loyal. People who love in great depth. So if they leave, the other is effected even if the retreat is brief as it means something. It is not a game, a power play or an impulsive move. It is real. They know it. They know something important has shifted and may not come back ever in the form before.
Hi Dani: I am contagian with a small percent super. I have never gone super nova. I admire the supers as does everyone. You think Superman or superwoman. But we all have our own special ways…. Of dealing
Hello Contagious,
I’m glad you’ve never been in a position where you were forced to go supernova. It’s interesting and informative to read about, sounding a little familiar. Personal experiences help me see parallels with my experiences more easily.
I’d need to feel much more knowledgable to say anything for sure. It’s also painful. I imagine hearing/reading the right circumstances surrounding one would be quite triggering. It sounds like it takes a great deal of unpleasantness to get an empath to that point.
Absolutely, everyone has their own ways of dealing.
I was reading about some of your dream experiences down below. They sound intense, to put it mildly. There’s a little there that I identify with as well. Not nearly at the level your experience was and is. (Not seeing someone I care for die.) But there is something about it that’s a bit familiar.
It’s nice to read your thoughts.
Hi Dani: well ok. When in law school a girl was raped about 6 feet from me in a neighboring building. He was a serial rapist written about in San Diego in a reggae band and he would leave a rose after raping a woman with a phone cord. I woke up to Clare screaming and called the cops. I screamed at him running saying the police are coming. I went to Clare. I was oddly calm as my roommate was hiding at the time. She couldn’t move. I found out the rapist was seen outside my bedroom window with his trademark ski mask. I was a den mom. Everyone came to my home for tv and food. I am always the host. Among them were very fine able bodied male students. So poor Clare who was alone. Maybe that’s super kicking in? I have a very small percent. I was a DA for a year but I could not handle the subject matter emotionally. Too much. I went into civil practice. I am a standard, a lawyer, a mother, a wife , a pet owner. I don’t know how to exist without caring for others. When younger a founded a children’s charity, did habitat for humanity etc… it went altruistic. Kids consumed me and work. But I don’t see standard and contagian as a majority. Both are me. I am majority both with marry, geyser and super and Cod very minor. Contagian is my soul, my unconscious, my underbelly. It permeates everything I do. Standard is my conscious my job, my role, my outward appearance. With my contagian I read people automatically. My dreams are beyond my understanding so I search for meaning. Here, I meet fellow contagians and it soothes me as it is rare especially in the unsubconsious dreams but I meet them. I have been getting irked about somehow BPD is related to us. None of my education including HG’s work suggests this. I think contagians are natural mentalists and sponges that have heightened intuition or 6th sense. Why? Well I don’t know why we are what we are. But I know who I am. Thank you Dani!
Hi Dani,
I’m not majority Contagion but have a significant Contagion minority element. I’m not sure if I have gone Supernova or not, what I will say is that I have an ‘off switch’. I’ll take so much and then suddenly, there will be a tipping point and I switch off.
When I do switch off I don’t get angry, I do the opposite, I stop transmitting. I draw the emotion back in to myself like a backdraft. I even visualise it as it happens. The emotion I feel at that point is disdain. I’m dismissive. All the good I felt towards the person just evaporates until there is absolutely nothing left. I’m also an INFJ, this response to me is a representation of the INFJ ‘door slam’. The person ceases to exist, worse, it’s like they never existed to me in the first place. Behaving as if someone never existed to begin with is the worst thing you can do to them, narc or no narc. It says ‘you don’t matter’ and ‘you have never mattered, not to me.’
Once I switch off, I don’t switch back on.
I’ve done that twice, possibly three times in my life. Definitely once with my mum, once with an ex partner. There are certain things I just won’t tolerate, catch that particular trigger and it’s done, I don’t believe I have control over it, it just happens automatically.
I’m not sure if that constitutes a Supernova or not. As far as my mum is concerned, I still have regular contact with her. There is no emotion left, but I will go through the motions of doing what I believe is the right thing by her, there’s just no emotion behind it. It’s intentional action, not emotional action. It has everything to do with who I am as a person and nothing whatsoever to do with her. When she tries to manipulate I am very comfortable manipulating back. I know what stings and I use it, but I don’t use it in an attacking way, only ever defensively.
The drawing in of emotion might be my Contagion element in play. I feel the emotion I send out so it is logical that I can pull it back if necessary.
There is no guilt as far as my behaviour towards my mum is concerned, just necessity.
Xx
Hi TS,
This was such a great comment I had to scroll through to respond. I love your description of the backdraft, that is exactly what it’s like for me also. Once it’s all in, the doors slam shut and that’s it, done. Those doors will never again open for that person. It has happened to me in a big way with all the known narcs in my life except my dad and many times in a more minor way, with people that were just showing themselves to be not worth my time by how they were treating me. I have no Contagion but very strong Super so I’m wondering if it comes from that? Also, I’m INTP, when you mentioned the INFJ for slam, I don’t know if my MB type has that or not but I suspect so. Though it may manifest in a different way. Interesting thing I will be looking into. Thank you.
Also, how you said you deal with your mom now, I could’ve written that, it is exactly the same. No emotion, only doing the duty required and getting out of there. No more are the long dreary conversations where she does all the talking and I must appear to agree. It saves me a lot of time. Haha. And of course the emotional drain.
Thank you for this comment, not written to me but it was helpful for me also. I may borrow your backdraft description if that is okay, very fitting.
You’re welcome AV, glad you found it useful.
Hello Contagious–
You expressed beautifully how you feel that you are a merger of your different schools/cadres and experiences.
“I was a DA for a year but I could not handle the subject matter emotionally. ” That is an exceptionally difficult job. I’m impressed by anyone who could handle that. I’d be a nervous wreck, about failing to get a criminal put in jail and equally about accidentally putting an innocent person there. I hope that you’re enjoying civil law practice.
“I have been getting irked about somehow BPD is related to us.” – I understand that, especially considering the view you’ve expressed of those diagnosed with that disorder. I understand that you find people with BPD to be abusive and absent all empathy. You said above: “Borderlines by definition lack empathy.”
I think there is confusion about the contagion empath, (that HG will clear up as he shares more with us about it). I think we’re all here because we’re looking for answers, about one experience or another. There may be some people here because they have been exposed to liars who claimed to have contagion empathy. I was curious about people who might lie about it. I think there are people who’ve had good and bad experiences with those diagnosed correctly or incorrectly (by the standards of a profession that recognizes this disorder) with BPD. I think misdiagnoses occur, and professionals may differ in their opinions when looking at the same results about whether a person has a certain disorder.
If you could please clarify how you got from what I said to the story you told about Clare and your experience at university, which is deeply horrible and something no one should go through (the rape or being a witness to it), I would appreciate it. I’m confused. I feel like I missed something somewhere, and I don’t know how to explain what I was trying to say without a little more context.
Thank you.
Dani: Clare was a classmate at law school who lived next to me in “ Dog Patch” at USD in San Diego. It was a monastery housing group. Her room was five feet from mine. She was raped while I was asleep. I woke up as did everyone in our viscunity and vocally called for help and called the police. Trust me no big deal.
“Hello Truthseeker6157,
“I’m not majority Contagion but have a significant Contagion minority element.” – If you don’t mind sharing, what is your majority?
“I’ll take so much and then suddenly, there will be a tipping point and I switch off.”
“When I do switch off I don’t get angry, I do the opposite, I stop transmitting. I draw the emotion back in to myself like a backdraft.”
If you don’t mind answering…Has anyone on the receiving end commented on this behavior? Have friends/family (not the recipients) commented on the change? If so, how did you respond?
By “stop transmitting,” do you mean just sharing emotional responses with the person you’re “switched off” to? Do you feel when you are “transmitting” that your emotions are soaked up by the person with whom you’re interacting? Do you visualize your “transmissions” in the same way you do the “switching off?”
“Once I switch off, I don’t switch back on.”
I think you’re right to protect yourself. It sounds like rarely that means doing this. There are certain things that no one should have to tolerate. If that means manipulating in return, I suppose it means that.
“I’m not sure if that constitutes a Supernova or not.” — I think you would have to ask HG to know for sure.
“The drawing in of emotion might be my Contagion element in play. I feel the emotion I send out so it is logical that I can pull it back if necessary.”
Do different emotions feel different? Do they look different when you visualize them? (i.e different colors/forms/etc.) Do you try to stop negative emotions? Do you sense when others are picking up on your emotions if you’re trying to hide them? Does this change with the emotional closeness (best friend) or relative distance (stranger on a train)?
Thank you so much for sharing.
Hi Dani,
Like many here I have representation in several schools but my majority is Super.
The first time I switched off was with regards to my mum. I was travelling in the car with my dad, my mum wasn’t present. My mum is still in my life on a regular basis. I estimate she can feel the difference in the way I communicate with my dad in comparison to the courteous way I communicate with her. I am aware my dad feels this too. I would describe my mum as ‘wary’ of me. I don’t take pleasure in this wariness, but I’m not uncomfortable with it either.
People that have seen me interact with my mum have occasionally commented that I am distant. Distant is acceptable, I don’t want to make others uncomfortable.
The second was an ex partner. He was in the room as I switched off. I saw his expression change, felt some form of realisation dawn on him. I can picture his face now, confusion, shock, uncertainty mixed together. He told me to look at him, I was looking directly at him. He told me I wasn’t listening, to please listen to him. So again I estimate he saw me as distant, no longer there.
In terms of transmitting emotion. Yes, I do feel that some people soak up my emotion. I am aware that I send out a lot of emotion if I feel affection / friendship / love towards someone. It isn’t necessarily the words I use, it’s the actual emotion that I send out. It feels independent from me as it leaves. I don’t visualise it as such, I do visualise it as smoke when I call it back in though.
My different emotions do feel different to me as I send them out yes. I don’t really visualise them as colour, more that I feel them as they leave.
I don’t really send out true negative emotion to my knowledge. If I do it will seem more like disinterest. I close the conversation down. It’s very rare to ever see me get angry, only a handful of times that I can recall and then it’s rage. If I’m hurt, upset, angry, I’m adamant not to give someone the satisfaction of knowing that they caused those feelings, so yes I actively try to stop negative emotions.
If I am shielding my emotions, no one can really read me. Very occasionally my dad (empath) might pick up on something but it’s extremely rare. No, friends, family or strangers won’t read me if I’m shielding. I redirect, get them to talk about themselves, people love to talk about themselves.
Most of the time I sally on happily through life. I laugh a lot, see the funny side of most things, I’m quite flirtatious, I’m sarcastic but in a teasing rather than underhand way. Really, I’m just too stubborn to get angry!
Xx
Hello Truthseeker6157,
“It isn’t necessarily the words I use, it’s the actual emotion that I send out. It feels independent from me as it leaves.” — Do you feel you can send a particular emotion to a particular person? Do you have to be within a certain proximity? i.e. Could you get a phone call from a close friend/family member who lives in a different city/town, realize they need comfort after a stressful day, and send ‘comfort’ to them?
“I saw his expression change, felt some form of realisation dawn on him.” — Do you ever feel like you absorb emotions from others in a similar way?
If you don’t mind answering, were there any similarities between the way your mother treated you and the way you were treated by your ex?
“If I’m hurt, upset, angry, I’m adamant not to give someone the satisfaction of knowing that they caused those feelings, so yes I actively try to stop negative emotions.” — Do you visualize this in any way? Does it ever take you time to figure out your emotions because of blocking them from others? Do you ever feel like you block them from yourself, if that’s not too personal?
Thank you so much!
Hi Dani,
I know you’re talking to TS but I just want to add my two cents. TS will often comfort me here on the blog. What I experience in those comforting comments is warmth. I don’t know if that’s what she’s sending out but that’s how it feels for me.
Hi Dani,
Yes I can send a particular emotion to a particular person. I joke with my empath friend about this, “ Come and take a break under my shield for a bit.”
He has recently escaped an ensnarement. So I can walk in in the morning, put my bag down and walk over to him. As he looks at me, I scan him almost, get a read on his emotion, to feel where he’s at, if he’s battling, anxious, sad, whatever he might be. So he could smile, try to put the light in his eyes, stand straight, crack a joke, it’s irrelevant, I’ll still read beneath and feel exactly what he’s feeling.
On bad days, he’ll stand closer, chat whilst I get on with what I’m doing, or not chat, just be hovering close by. Then I’ll send out emotion/ feeling/ a mindset. Stability, strength, the idea of taking things all in our stride, confidence, affection, reassurance, whatever is missing for him in that moment. He always tells me that he feels better for being around me. It is like a little break I think, it evens him out somehow, steadies him. So yes, I send out and absorb emotion.
No. I can’t transmit emotion unless someone is with me in the room. I would say I can’t absorb it either unless they are with me. I am perceptive though, I’ll pick up on how someone is feeling if I’m on the phone with them. I’ll notice a slight shift in tone or a selection of a word or words, but I won’t feel how they feel, it’s only through cues that I know. Text similarly, it’s just that I’m perceptive, I’m reading behind the words I’m not reading the words just as words. I’m not absorbing their emotion through their words though, it’s my interpretation of their emotion through their words.
No. My ex and my mum didn’t treat me similarly. They both used manipulations against me but they were different and even the same manipulation, triangulation for example, was done completely differently. They are different schools and cadres of narcissist.
Haha! I sound crazier by the minute here. Yes, if I’m refusing to show emotion I shield. I visualise the shield as a glass dome and I see it as I raise it! I even added some shimmer to it. Gawd. Haha!
It’s a bit like going to my corner. I feel upset, vulnerable so I shield, or I shield out of sheer stubbornness to not show how I’m feeling. If I’m shielding I’m not able to be selective. I can’t transmit to one person but shield against the other. If the shield is up, no one gets any emotional content. I portray me, but there’s nothing behind it.
No. I am always fully aware of my emotions at any given time. If my ET is high, some feel turned down, others heightened. I’m ‘nicer’ with higher ET. I know which emotions belong to me and which belong to someone else. So I might feel the sadness of someone, technically ‘I feel sad’ but I know that the sadness I feel isn’t mine, it’s theirs.
Do you ever actively stop transmitting emotion Dani?
Xx
Leigh,
I only just saw this, it was the sweetest comment and really made me smile, thank you. Xx
You’re very welcome TS.
When I think of this in more detail, the contagion empathy and the super empathy work instinctively together. It’s not a case of stopping and thinking about either one. It’s more a case of feeling (via the contagion) and reacting (via the super). Yes I believe this to be true wiser now.
Yes. That makes sense.
I think you are right!
Hi Dani: I don’t know what a contagian take off would be? Maybe revealing the killer in a cold case. I think our “powers “ are our innate knowledge of knowing what another is feeling and thinking. Even narcs. We feel a void, rage, jealousy, agitation, boredom or emptiness. We know something is not right during love bombing but we push aside our intuition. So let’s say there is a grave injustice, we would not confront it outright like a super at best we would reveal the truth, solve the crime, shine the light.
Hi Dani, aahh I see the autistic focus there:))) Yes, I recognised the moment you speak of as well; the different schools of empaths somehow include minority of other schools in them and the many mixes which are possible.
Your question is really great though!
„Can a nefarious narc take out whatever security system is in place?“
Well yeah, why not?!
At some point I mentioned Anakin Skywalker being a Contagion. And HG answer was: Correct. But I asked more than one question, so I don’t know which one of them got the correct.
But it’s obvious to me – Anakin is a Contagion and Palpatine removed the security system I would say.
Hello Jordyguin–
Which of the prime aims are met by narc who manages this (assuming they’re aware that they did it)? Presumably some fuel…more if the empath has more geyser…less if carrier, I would guess. I would also think it would feel quite powerful…very much in control…but we’d need HG to weigh in to know more.
And Anakin an empath under enormous external stress? Fascinating. I do recall HG mentioning that he was disappointed that Vader ruined his invite to “Narc Club” with the whole “Nooooo!” and throwing Palpatine to his death.
My guess would be; contagions perhaps may fountain with fuel based on the heightened sensitivity?
Anakin began as an empathic individual with the emphasis on freeing the slaves and the importance of being helpful towards each other, which would result in a peaceful galaxy (wide empathy range, moral compass).
His blood contained more midichlorians (genetic? criteria for the force connection) than any other Jedi, whilst he was discovered by Qui-Gon Jinn, who saw in him the chosen one who would bring balance to the force…
With time Palpatine began with his ensnarement. He facilitated Anakin’s emotional thinking and narcissistic traits, and his manipulations are on point. He uses fear, pain, shame, hope, pride and other tools to control Anakin. Step by step he cuts him off from his cohorts and loved one; smears the Jedi, replaces Anakin’s ideals and seduces him via promises of power in order to save Padme and bring peace to the galaxy.
Overall Palpatine succeeds in replacing Anakin’s identity with a new one – Vader.
Finally the scene when Palpatine reveal that Padme died – nailed it. The medic station implode as the painful fuel emanates from Vader and Palpatine thrives in his machination and Vaders fuel. Vader becomes Palpatine’s eminent IPPS and his main lieutenant; resulting in the accomplishment of the prime aims – the rise of the Empire and ultimate power over the galaxy.
And Palpatine will ensure to remind Vader of all the good stuff in order to drink deep of his fuel, until he replaces Vader with Luke…
If there wouldn’t be the force thing, I would categorise Anakin perhaps as Super (the strong narcissistic traits). The force thing makes it more Contagion for me however. The love-pain-fear-anger-greed he was going through, must have been an enormous catalyst for erasing the empathy and get a distorted vision of that intensity in order to become a galactic Berserker.
This is an amazing analysis! Makes me want to watch it again! Yay!
Thank you!💓Yay! It’s my first draft. I still need to read more and find out more about the differences of the schools and cadres! It is so interesting!!!
In the Star wars trilogy. No way Anakin was an empath. He was clearly borderline. He was so frightened of being abandoned or losing Padme that he let the dark side control him and nearly killed her by strangling her. I fact this is what lured him into the hands of Palpatine in the first place.
He also massacred the young Jedi Padewans at the temple. This is not the behaviour of a contagion empath.
Hi Anna, you are right, this is not the behavior of a contagion empath. This is an example of a narcissistic manipulation.
Yes, he also engaged in a romantic and sexual relationship with Padme, (when it was forbidden).
He ignored orders to guard her from within her room because he “can sense everything happening in there.”
He jumped out a speeder when he was getting a lecture from Obi-wan.
The massacre of the sand people (though the external stress could be his mother dying)
Still, there is Anakin sensing what his mother’s emotional state across an interplanetary distance. (Obi-wan did that in Star Wars: A New Hope, “millions of voices crying out in terror”) And Palpatine and all the sith have access to force powers…and I don’t think that there is any argument that could be made for Palpatine being an empath.
Well there is this thing with the Sith and the Jedi..
I doubt that every soldier, let’s say in the Vietnam or WW1/2 or any other war in history, was a narc or a psychopath, but also a normal and an empath who brutally damaged or wiped out the innocent population of the countries that were invaded. So the question is, what erases empathy, especially in those empaths and normals that allows their empathic nature to „go Anakin“ on children and women of the supposed enemy, throughout the history until this day.
George Lucas lays out his observation on this question with Star Wars (1-6). How do good intentions becomes the opposite and why? Which circumstances, morals and codexes lead to what?
The philosophy and the principles of the Jedi and the Sith are based in philosophy, mythology and historical events and George Lucas gave us food for thought in a modernised version, drawing parallels to our dilemma of conflicts and wars. This is what good films suppose to do in an entertaining manner, I would say.
The force sensitive Jedi were not able to detect the most dark and powerful force sensitive Sith, who paraded in front of them basically, nor other two faced Jedi amongst them. And if I examine it further and apply HG’s knowledge to this, I see the lack of control environment in the education of the Jedi-system. Detecting a force sensitive child and decide what their fate has to be on every aspect of their life. Well if some of those children have a genetic predisposition for narcissism, there you go. The Jedi Order was conquered from within long before Palpatine arrived.
Interesting. Perhaps HG could do a Stnarc Wars & Empath character personality determination like he did with Big Little lies. I really loved that, it helped put it all into perspective.
Oh wow. Can you post the link to where HG did that for Big Little Lies? I would love to read or listen to it.
Big Little Lies was pretty amazing.
Use the search function.
I would like that, too. (if and when HG has time)
Hi Emc2gion
I pray to my personal god that Mr Tudor doesn’t do a character personality determination for the Star Wars characters…
I will die of boredom having to watch through that! Hahaha!
Less of your cheek Z!
Hahaha Z! Same!!
“I will die of boredom having to watch through that! Hahaha!”
Careful, Z – no one’s been sent to the naughty step for quite some time…
aah Z 😉 and I will pray to my personal God = HG Tudor
and we both know whose god will win
WhoCares,
What’s the naughty step?? 😆🤣😂
Rebecca,
NA knows more about the naughty step than I do, but I haven’t seen her around lately…
“I left your Christmas present on Amazon.ca and Amazon.com by way of review on Sex and the Narcissist. Oh…..and I have decorated the naughty step accordingly since its my second home.”
https://narcsite.com/2016/12/19/save-the-children-2/#comment-56018
LOL! I thought the naughty was in Mr. Tudor’s dungeon and where he sent naughty empaths. LOL!
Make it more interesting then Z. Which character(s) in Star Wars are Contagions if any? Why?
Jordyguin I have written about my concerns of my son joining the marines. His lessons are to kill. HG reassured me military does not make narcs. When faced with war, an empath, a normal, even a narc is put in a situation of kill or be killed. I am an empath but if anyone were to harm my child in front of me while holding a gun, no question. Bang. I don’t know enough to weigh in on the Anakin analysis. But great fun!
I know what you mean.. The worrier aspect..
The understanding of why there is war (ever since, war of any kind) – lies in this blog.
Leigh,
The naughty step is a little like Purgatory, a half way house between sunlight and the dungeon, except in this case some of us work really hard to get sent down and not up 😉
I’m just not quite bad enough. But I’m working on it.
Xx
TS6157 -;Haha!
Lol, TS! I do recall how may empaths wanting to be sent to the naughty step.
I’ve never been sent either, lol.
TS😂🥲 Work really hard to get sent down?
..Some of us were born there😈.. not us though, we are hopeless😇😇 the only way for us to be sent down is to bring food and weapon arsenal to the cheeky squad.
Hey jordyguin! I love your question. We are so eager for more from HG. I am standard contagian mostly. Small parts geyser, super… but I relate to standard from being an attorney and contagian as it fits like a glove, especially with my dreams or subconscious. But a super takes on a narc and leaves. We all can go no contact. What could a contagian do? Infiltrate his subconscious? Cause him confusion? I don’t know. I am not sure what time we play. But I can tell you from my dreams it’s divided. I have this punk youth trickster that appears and he is always just beyond the staircase I know not to cross.The darkness I have felt unconsciously is a void. Cold. When I dreamed of my best friends death and she showed me the motive and time of death I awoke screaming on my knees asking God to never allow it again. True. True. True. The LA coroner confirmed the time at trial and the DA confirmed the motive. No one needs to validate my experiences. I live them. I first sought this blog as a way to understand. But no one knows. We use 30% more of our brain when asleep. Why? No one knows. HG excels at no other at understanding narcs. He is also a psychopath. He knows who he is. He tells us in truth. No person can alter my truth as an empath. Contagian fits. Why? I don’t know. Help. I got another dream last night. Never ends. ???
Hi my dear Contagious :))I hug you! You’re the best, I love your passion so🌺❤️🔥
For me, no „new age stuff“ either. (You mentioned crystals in your other comment. Crystals belong in to the earth, or in to the caves where they were found, they serve a purpose there and not on the outside. Unknowingly people continue to rip the earth apart where they shouldn’t.) The majority in the new age/ spiritual circles are narcissists anyway. Including the leaders and teachers. Not all, but most of the time. The atmosphere can be suffocating on such events. I ran from them as far as I can.
Are your dreams always lucid (vibrant, very colorful) or do you have also dreams which are normal? In terms of; they are like the real life perception and rather dimmed in color and even blurry sometimes?
What are your dreams about at the moment??
Jordy: I don’t believe in crystals, psychics, ghosts or auras. I believe in God. No, my passion comes from my dreams. And I don’t dream every night. I only dream in color and lucid. And I divide them into two. I have normal dreams. Often problem solving with people still alive or I see a logical solution to a legal question in a case. The others are what haunt me. I have always been known for them as a child. I see people who have died. I see places and people I have never met repetitively. As I have written I had a dream of a friend murdered at 40 who showed me the motive in writing on her notebook on her desk and so many clocks appeared at her time of death 2:17 am that when I went to her murder trial… I learned the LA coroner had only a 30 minute timeframe and mine was in it. The motive was what the DA was using through its investigation. I had no way of knowing her roommate lent her money. I had no idea she had a roommate as the one she had was a mutual friend. I have had friends “ calling “ for me who maybe I had not spoken to for months or years only to find out their mother ir boyfriend died. I have seen my beloved father and been to his “ home” only to receive a sticky note “ go home.” I listened to him once and he broke a conversation and said “ go home.” I wrote two books that were just from dreams. Harmless Error and Sparkles Saves Santa on Amazon. I had another that was Celtic mythology but I didn’t know it until I researched the next day who these people were I have seen my dead pets in a home. I have dreams involving other cultures, other times. Recently I went to a party of spoke I didn’t know in a place I didn’t know but there was a message from it. Once I dreamed of a friend ‘s friend dying under a tire and my best friend called me crying to say her friend Becca died in a car accident. I have many who recall my dreams of marlon. Rando on a beach. I was sitting on his lap holding hands. Walking. It was fat old main so I exclaimed I had a grandpa crush. My son was born premature at 7.5 weeks. I worried if he would be ok through 17.5 hours of natural labor. I refused drugs. I came home. Wing a young nut, I got on a treadmill, picked up a mag. My son was born on his birthday. If you know me, you know my dreams. But the unique on s are not “ regular” and sometimes like this week, I have no idea what they mean. Lu I’d dreamers are like 6% – people who have them in a lifetime. In a book I read last year by a British psychologist she feels lucid dreams are evolutionary. Whatever that means.I just read Alan Alda has damage from Parkinson’s disease that causes real life enactment if REM dreams. Neurology. There is no proper explanation but “ new age”? I would love to meet a real life psychic. Anyone know one? Not me.
Jordy: imagine for a minute you are me. You have a dream of an old boyfriend you are friends with but he is calling your name. You wake up. It troubles you a lot. You call him the next day. “ um hello we haven’t talked in a year but the date 12/4 mean anything to you? Well my mother died on 12/3. Oh so sorry she was lovely… how are you?” Nothing on social media either…
See?
Hi my dear! You are a contagion, connecting to the fields of the unconscious trough your dreams as you look to find understanding and navigation! Remember the science is not there yet to fully explain what you are going through. I’m sure you will find many answers and order in both: your dreams, the mental and the rational side of your configuration! Your talent in those areas is obvious!
I was told that both varieties of dreams: lucid and normal are important. The normal dreams are sometimes more difficult to „wake up in“ because they are so similar to our reality and contain what passes by as known and not given that much attention. I was also told: if we have nightmares it is because there is a fear in our daily life we must examine and get rid of first.
If you detect and unmask the particular fear trough the daily life examination, the cause of your dreams will change and open up new possibilities. Unless you solve the daily-human-mess so to speak the dream gate keepers won’t let you pass further. But as you begin to resolve it, those gate locks will click one by one, open.
Lucid dreamers are going in the opposite order sometimes to unmask the fear through their dreams first. So it is actually the preference thing. Either through dreams first, or the waking life examination first, or both sometimes. The focus remain on the ability to evoke inactive areas of the brain/ energetic configuration/ the soul, both in sleeping stages and the waking life.
The work on the psychological aspect of the personality – frees the energy so to speak to use it in dreams in order to benefit from this natural ability even further. It happens automatically actually. Some people indulge in therapy without changing the patterns of their behavior, is not what frees the energy however. Only the truthful internal and external progress changes that.
God..
I see and experience God as the Creator of life, visible and invisible. I connect with God through nature and I see humans of every race and genetics as his children. In my understanding God and Love building a unity which result in Creation. The human-physical experience being part of this Creation is one of the most important, to my understanding. The ability to connect through physicality, trough nature, trough Earth to God and Love is an essential step of returning home so to speak and beginning a new cycle of co-Creation, I think. And it is an individualistic endeavor of those who choose it freely. It can’t be a subject of „chosen ones“ trough collective recipes. Yes, there is a collective wellbeing that may be achieved as the society is transitioning, but the power to achieve that, routs in the awareness which is usually sought out by individuals and not the masses, though I remain hopeful for the masses as well.
The understanding of our history and the two kinds this blog speaks about is the most important topic I can think of.
Somewhere in our becoming we turned in a direction which lead to a narcissistic construct impacting on a half(?) of the population on this planet. It snowballed to where our earth is now. The physical and mental cruelty towards living beings, humans, animals and nature on this planet is beyond measurement. What causes it? All the different kinds mentioned on the blog. Every unaware and aware element who is placed on this earth and is given the option to do something about it. Which of course is not an easy task at all, due to the standing in the eye of the storm.
So yeah, I just continue reading, listening and learning here♡. As HG mentioned: become free of the clouded vision. Step by step it is achievable.
And to make you laugh but true: turtles. No explanation there. Last couple of nights I wake up thinking why are there turtles in my dreams. But everywhere. Crawling in my bed. In my room. Weird. Online it gives this great explanation but then last night I met other people in other places, and then it turned to sex. I am married. Am I cheating??????? But then it turned towards the long haired blond I was with showing me arguments in a brief I needed to write. This is what I call a normal dream. Nothing weird. Just symbolic representations showing a solution. I wrote them down when I awoke. So since I’m was boring, what do you dream?
😂😂😂😂!!!!!LMAO I almost choked on my chocolate milk! Love it!!! All good signs!🐢❤️🔥A sign to enhance some turtle traits perhaps or recognise they already exist in you. What could it be? Turtles are unhurried. There is a wisdom aspect which is tied to them in mythology. A reptile species which formed million years ago; they’ve been here longer than the homo sapiens and have a greater experience. They are shielded and placid creatures of water and the sun; both nourishing, life giving forces. We share a reptile brain with them, which is the older brain of the three we posses. Turtles everywhere around you in your dreams, sounds enthralling to me!!!! (Remember to have unhurried days with the two elements; water (ocean, pool, bath) and the sun (sun, fire, candle, warmth))
„So since I’m was boring, what do you dream?“ — 😂no, you are definitely not boring! Your dreams are very broad sectioned, again you are more gifted than most individuals, I can tell;)) I was boasting to a friend who is a very active dreamer about your talent! So he’d ask all about your dreams and how you do it.
As for animals, snakes are present most of the time in my dreams. I thought I was scared of snakes as a child (films), but when I encountered a snake in reality I fell in love with them!!! Snakes are always connected to the earth; they touch it with the whole underside of their body, their heart. They move elegantly, they renew themselves as they grow; and as all reptiles they enjoy/need the warmth of the sun and there are many more enchanting aspects to them.
I’m more of a type to look out for where does the dream information coincide in my waking life. As an example; if a dream would consist a turtle, I would make a remark to remember to pay attention to a „turtle“. I might encounter an individual wearing a T-shirt with a turtle and I would become alert. Observe him; what is he doing, what is he holding in his hands, what is he looking at, what is important for me to discover about him, his actions or conversation, or his behavior, since he is marked with a sign from my dream. It may all consist of something I need to recognise and I would try to follow up on that. Or I’ll pass a bookstore and see a book with a turtle on it, I’d pick a page and it will tell me something I may consider to make part of my mindset or again follow up on the information. Or I’d see just a turtle figure and that’s it, than I would look around and scan for information or peculiarity. Sort of a method of combining the dreaming and the waking attention for navigation to find something my dream consisted of, if the sign happen to occur.
Do you have friends around you who are also dreaming a lot??
I am so fascinated with your profession! How do you go about it as you can view it by HG’s categorisation? Do you recognise the manipulations and of what kind of school and cadre they are? (The different types of a narc, narc/psychopath, a pure psychopath?)
Contagian fits. Why? I don’t know. Help. I got another dream last night. Never ends. ???
Big hugs.
I can relate. I too seek answers.
Do your dreams ever relate to others – strangers you may have contact with – almost like your energy connects and creates a link? Even when you are not conscious of it? Like to be alone because you are not subject to other peoples energy?
Or you are drawn to certain people in a room due to the vibes they are giving off. Sometimes they are mixed and confusing and you end up watching and trying to work out what it is which is drawing you.
Aware of energy swirling when people are not present.
How much of what you feel is your own and not of others in the room? The dreams that plague and then come to pass, but why even have them if you cannot change anything? I question the point of them. I warn people – usually in a roundabout way – maybe I am too vague with people I am not directly connected with – so not to admit where the warning comes from.
With crystals = I love the feeling they produce and energy. I could bathe in their presence for hours. There is one particularly large one in a museum – I love the vibes coming from it.
It feels like there is a reason – a point to our experience – but I have yet to find it…
Very much agreed…;- )
First I have to THANK Jordy as we are soul mates. Hers are mine. I rarely if ever meet someone who believes th same as me. I was just telling a Muslim friend in Pakistan on vacation from London a detailed history of religion. How much we are the same. How God is in every religion as he is love and defined love. But my new friend Enthralled, great name! I rarely meet people or places I know in lucid dreams only dead ones I know. That’s what is striking. I will sometimes not often go to a place, like last night and recognize it in every detail. Last night I met new people at this place and had in depth conversations. But when I awoke, I was confused. I had to remind be myself I did not live there, it was a dream. Took a moment as it is so real but compares to nothing. Sometimes my conversations with these strangers have deep meaning or prophecy. And I don’t know what to do. A few nights ago after joining a party with unknown strangers I n an unknown quite beautiful place a friends deceased mother appeared and told me a childhood friend had breast cancer and she would lose her right breast but be ok be grateful for health. This mother had the face of the woman I knew at 13 but had aged white and old. So? Do I call my friend? I don’t think we have spoken in 30 years. Crazy right? Now when I got two “calls” at night from an ex boyfriend I speak with every 5 years or so about a crisis. I called him and his mother who I knew 20+ years ago had died the day before. A good lady. A week later I had a dream about my dead friends home in a place I have never been at a pool party and she went down a street while I watched and flowers arrived. Her knees bent and she screamed as if someone had died. I checked the internet her boyfriend had died. Suicide a week before my dream. I could go on and on and in. I don’t get it. But I look to science while believing in gifts from God. All my dreams are lucid in color and like mini movies. Some are quite long! I know the normal dreams as they are short, not emotional involve live people in a live setting and usually have a problem solve message. Sometimes it’s me! It’s written. I write out an argument to a case. I wake up and write it down. But most of my dreams are not in any way at all relatable. Some places involve space. I am not even on Earth. Rare. To be honest who knows where these places in my head are they don’t follow normal rules of geography or time. Even animals are different. There are some common: the White House. The lava hot springs. The city with staircases. There is a place you don’t enter and a trickster character looks like a UK punk I see, a Moroccan bizarre, a dessert with a circus, etc… gorgeous, never been. A stage in space, people dancing in the northern lights, etc… space. There’s a place in Australia on a mountain where I met friends. We talk politics and the beef farmer likes football. I could go on forever. Makes no sense. No connection usually with my life unless the person is dead, or just died or was killed.
Awe!! My soul!! That’s so sweet of you to say! I feel you:)))) I feel many dear people on the blog, as I follow their contributions and insights! Also when I read through the earlier years. I am puzzled, as right from the start the most interesting group of people appeared and created in depth conversations, light and dark.. It says a lot about HG actually and his soul-vision if you will.
– „Sometimes my conversations with these strangers have deep meaning or prophecy. And I don’t know what to do.“ –
Follow the hints from the dreams, as you already do, and see what happens! Your link is clear and you are fearless, which is a huge plus. You gotta find orientation with the hints in your waking life. The more you follow, the more direction and new hints – will you receive!! This is the trick actually. Something acknowledges that you listen! and will open up more and more.
– „I could go on forever. Makes no sense. No connection usually with my life unless the person is dead, or just died or was killed.“ –
The death element plays such a significant role with you. You know there is no death right? What does this knowledge leave you with? I mean look at the pace of your dreams and the variety! It is almost too much to make sense of it, but you are open for this input, thus this is what you need, want and have the ability to decipher.
Some of it will have the guidance for your waking life, questions, answers.
Some of it will show you deeper meaning of things, places and people. Perhaps some connections with other dreamers you only have via dreams.
Some of it will be to rest and rewire of your daily attention (your brain).
!💓
Hi Dani, I’m insignificant Contagion. I’m only 8% Contagion. I experience it in two ways. The first is my guardian angel that sits on my shoulder. I imagine my guardian angel is my grandpa. Every once in awhile my guardian angel will steer me. The second way it happens is when I’m in direct contact with someone who is experiencing a heightened emotion. I feel their emotions but only when I’m in direct contact. As soon as I move away, I no longer feel their emotion.
Since my contagion is insignificant, I don’t experience these things all the time. I can’t control it. It just happens when it happens.
I’m under the same impression as AV that all empaths have a little bit of Contagion. Mr. Tudor talks about the Contagion in the Three Strands of Empathy.
Hi Leigh,
Thank you for responding.
HG said below in this page that not all empaths have the contagion, and he said in the video “The Three Strands of Emapthy” that most empaths have a little bit of it.
Have you recognized the contagion coming out more in positive situations (i.e. happy, contentment) or in more negative (i.e. grief, anger, depression)?
Direct contact. Does that mean physically touching, in the same room, listening over the phone, an especially emotional email/text?
“As you move away” Does that mean physical proximity or emotional proximity? Have you experienced the contagion more with those you feel emotionally close to (friends, family) or equally with strangers out in the world?
Thank you so much for your time. I greatly appreciate it.
Hi Dani,
Being able to feel another person’s emotions is only one piece of my contagion element and its the piece that I experience the least. I’ve only experienced it a handful of times.
In order to feel someone’s emotions, I don’t need to be touching them but I do need to be near them. I have to be sitting or standing next to them. It doesn’t have to be someone I know. Its happened with strangers as well. The emotion they’re feeling has to be heightened though. When I say as I walk away, I mean physical proximity. If I’m no longer in their physical proximity, I can’t feel their emotions.
I don’t feel it over the phone or through an email or text. However, this is when another piece of my contagion kicks in. I don’t feel what they’re feeling but my spidey sense (intuition) will kick in and I can intuitively understand how they are feeling or what they’re thinking. When I responded last night I forgot to mention my spidey sense. Which is ironic because that’s how my contagion element manifests the most, lol.
You’re very welcome Dani. Always happy to help!
Dani: I know this is to Leigh. But you know. Direct contact isn’t necessary. But I would love to hear from Leigh and others. Thanks!!!!
Leigh: see I believe you completely. I have no contact with the dead but in dreams. And contagians know how others feel. I have met psychopaths and narcs. The problem is you know something is amiss but your next step is to fix it. Wrong. Now I have met some who are so void and cold they are have no connection. And sorry HG but I believe to the Light.
Hi Contagious, I don’t have contact with dead people either. My Contagion element comes out in 3 ways. First and most prominent is my spidey sense or my intuition My spidey sense will tell me when someone is lying or genuine. Second is my guardian angel, also another piece of my intuition. This piece helps me with things more than people. It will steer me clear. Like taking an alternate route to work and then finding out there was an accident. Things like that happen to me frequently. I imagine that my guardian angel is my Grandpa who passed away and he’s helping and guiding me through life. I don’t actually have contact with him though. I just like to think it. Last and the least prominent is feeling someone else’s emotions. Its only happened to me a handful of times.
Hey Leigh I like the spidery effect. No I see dead people in my dreams. Infrequent in my life and detailed to the max. My murdered friend took me to a spa in lava and shopping, it’s all free. Her home in NYC although a Jew she had a waterfall and nudist statute, I have been to my fathers house, saw his big dog and in picking up a stickie note in his kitchen he told me to go home. It was his writing. I described the house ti my mother. She said “ that’s him.” Si many dreams. Too many to recite here.
Hi Contagious, so are you saying that being visited by dead people in our dreams is part of the Contagion element? That’s interesting. I’ve only been visited by two people that have passed away, my father and my best friend. I didn’t consider that it was real. I just thought it was a manifestation because they were an integral part of me. Hmm. That’s something to think about now.
Hi, fellow contagions! I’m excited for this series. I’ve a lot to read here but just did a quick scroll–Is it really true that contagions aren’t a narc’s first choice, HG?
Also, do any other contagions pick up other peoples’ manner of speaking or physical mannerisms after spending lots of time with them?
Hey victorious! Yes HG said we aren’t his first choice. Wonder why? Think it’s good. Contagian know when they meet a narc even a greater but become confused or determined to bring light to dark. To balance. It’s a challenge or a needs I think. I am a standard contagian. It sure about the switch if there is one. As an attorney I carry others problems. My daughter put it perfectly. I said what do you want to do in life? She said not take on others people’s problems like a layer or doctor. Ouch. I don’t mind. I thrive on it. Helping others is my greatest blessing. Outside of work too. I am taking an elderly neighbor to see Frozen Saturday and a mentally challenged friend if 30 years to see Romeo and Juliet on Sunday. I don’t look at it’s anything but an honor. How lucky am I to help less fortunate. But they need help. As far as picking up on facial expressions, gestures and speech, there is lots of neuroscience on mirroring. But is contagian empathy conscious or subconscious, neuroscience and others don’t know. I would say it’s an unconscious trait.
Hi Contagious, thank you for your lovely reply. Contagion not being first choice is offending one of my narcissistic traits 😅.
I’ve come to realize that I do get a certain feeling around narcissists but I was never sure what the feeling was until recently. It feels like a simultaneous push and pull. So contagion is not your majority?? Reading about all you do for the people around you is inspiring! Happy to hear that you thrive on it, I know some people feel burdened by their emotional empathy. I agree that contagion empathy would be an unconscious trait. I can’t wait to hear what HG has to say! I’m also curious what the standard empath is all about as it’s the only one that was left off of my chart.
Yes WHY aren’t contagians HGs first choice? Lol Thank you as well. I don’t feel I do enough. Just a regular gal who wants to help:)
Mr. Tudor,
I’ve explored both of your YouTube channels for more information about the contagion. I understand from the videos that I’ve watched that those in this group experience the emotions of others somewhat telepathically (for lack of a better word) and that this can be overwhelming for them.
Have the contagions you’ve interacted with described what they experience as generally pertaining to all people or do they report feeling highly sensitive to specific persons? Is it a mixture of both? Have you noticed the percentage revealed through an empath detector relate to what they report if they have consultations? i.e. A person who has a higher percentage in this school/cadre experiences feeling the emotions of more people and/or more strongly with those they’re close to. As it lowers, is a person more likely to be sensitive to specific persons or only at certain times?
Thank you so much for all your time and energy that you put into sharing your expertise and world view. You’re sharing a gift with many people. I’ve been looking for information like what you provide off and on for some time; yours, by far, is the clearest, most concise, and consistent in a way I’ve not found elsewhere. I’ve found so much fascinating and helpful information through your channels and blog.
Hi Dani,
You have asked some great questions here about the Contagion Empath. Many ppl here are interested to learn more about the Contagion Empath due the the rarity and little info available out there. Mr Tudor has provided great insight into the CE in his empath detectors.
After completing the Empath detector I was able to understand myself more and why I am so different to other people. I am a majority Contagion Empath determined by the empath detector. I can not speak for all Contagion Empaths but I can provide my own experience and perhaps other Contagions can add their ideas/ experience as well.
1) Have the contagions you’ve interacted with described what they experience as generally pertaining to all people or do they report feeling highly sensitive to specific persons?
For myself it’s all people and living beings in general, and to cope I live a semi reclusive life in the country. I can handle people in short bursts but need a lot of alone time to recharge. I also feel emotions through the energy in emails, text messages and shows etc on tv. For example if someone is upset or distressed on tv, normally I get overwhelmed with emotion and end up crying, even though I myself may not be sad.
If I am close to someone, friends/ family I do feel their emotions more in the sense that my own emotions are connected to theirs on a personal level. For example I can feel my best friend is upset, anxious etc…..if I hyper focus without having physical or verbal contact with that person for sometime. I generally can’t do that for random ppl on that level unless I am physically close to them because I am not connected to them on a personal emotional level.
I read on another thread here that Mr Tudor believes we are born with a blank canvas and are taught empathy. Depending on our genetic makeup and our environment (Controlled or lack of controlled).
For myself I was born to MMR mother I believe and a Narcissistic father with an extremely volatile and lack of control environment for most of my childhood. So I always wondered why I was so different. From birth my grandfather used to take me a lot, he loved children and was an empath. I also spent a lot of time with my Aunty who was also empathic, and I preferred both of their energy profiles more than my parents energy profiles.
I hope some other contagions add their thoughts/ experiences here as well to help provide more clarity
Emc2gion,
Thank you so much for responding! I have more questions, if that’s alright?
How do you find yourself/your emotions after being around people? You said it takes a lot of alone time…but are you able to watch TV or read books? Or is that just trading one set of emotions for another? Is it easier to read/watch something you’re familiar with like a favourite childhood title or is something novel more likely to help? Or do you do something else with lower risk of emotional input?
Are there particular actors/actresses that you have a stronger response to? Do you avoid or gravitate toward watching their performances?
Are there certain genres of TV shows/movies/books that you avoid because you know they will be overwhelming? i.e. Shows interviewing families of murder victims or victims of violent crimes.
Is there any physical distance limitation? i.e. If a close friend travels 100+ miles away, are you still able to concentrate and sense them if they are in distress or really happy. Have you ever sensed this and been able to later confirm it with that individual? How do they react?
Thank you again for responding. And thank HG for setting up this blog for people and the YouTube channels.
Hi Dani,
How do you find yourself/your emotions after being around people? You said it takes a lot of alone time…but are you able to watch TV or read books?
This depends on the situation. I will use the battery analogy. When I am alone and emotionally calm I have a full battery. Certain situations drain my battery more than others. If I’m having a coffee and spending time with my best friend who is also calm and happy, my battery doesn’t get drained. If my family and I go out for a nice dinner I don’t get drained much if the environment is nice. Shopping centre/ malls can be full on. If I focus on what I need and get in and out in a reasonable time, I’m okay. Hospitals are a no go zone unless I am dying or a close friend/ family need me.
Sometimes though the energy of the certain places seems to bounce around the shiny floors and glass and it feels like chaos. I’ve learnt somewhat to block and shield myself from emotions from others etc which helps. However the residual energy sticks, and in situations that this happens I usually shower or if it’s bad I will have a deep bath.
Is it easier to read/watch something you’re familiar with like a favourite childhood title or is something novel more likely to help? Or do you do something else with lower risk of emotional input?
Water helps a lot to cleanse and diffuse energy and calm myself. Listening to calm/ beautiful music can help a lot as well in different genres. I am creative so writing, reading and practising visual arts are also my favourite coping mechanisms. I don’t watch too much television it can be a bit too much. Spending time in nature is also great to diffuse energy, and centre myself. Watching a campfire, sunset, sunrise, star gazing, waterfalls, sitting near big shady old trees etc.
Are there certain genres of TV shows/movies/books that you avoid because you know they will be overwhelming? i.e. Shows interviewing families of murder victims or victims of violent crimes.
Yes! I can’t stand horror, violence or heavy metal music. I get anxious before I even start watching/ listening. If there is violence I hide behind a cushion. I find some childrens movies affect me as well. I cried in Nemo, The Land Before Time, The Never Ending Story etc.
I do enjoy fantasy, romance, good documentaries. I love the Lord of the Rings but hide behind cushions during the violence. Rivendell is a dream.
Is there any physical distance limitation? i.e. If a close friend travels 100+ miles away, are you still able to concentrate and sense them if they are in distress or really happy. Have you ever sensed this and been able to later confirm it with that individual? How do they react?
My best friend lives this far away atm. Yes, I have been able to confirm it. Sometimes she appreciates this, other times she gets annoyed because I already “know” before she downloads/ explains. My sister gets annoyed because she doesn’t like others to know or read her emotions, which I completely understand.
I have also tried to warn a good friend of a potential situation that could cause her harm/ distress and she took it the wrong way and thought the opposite. This was very upsetting because she had know me since I was 4 and yet in this moment if felt like she didn’t know me at all. But what happened was she transferred all her hurt and pain onto me. So I’m vary wary of doing this now, and usually keep what I feel from and about others to myself. So I don’t intrude or take on others pain/ issues via transference
It can be of benefit at times as well, in certain situations when my grandfather was in end stage of life and in physical pain, but unable to communicate with staff so they could understand, I could feel and help relieve his discomfort, which he confirmed when he was able to speak. My grandmother always said I had healing hands.
I’d love to hear some of the other Contagions responses here. I hope this helps Dani
Hi EMC,
I have more questions, please. I, too, would love to hear from other contagions.
Please tell me if I ask anything too personal. I can become too interested. (Autistic hyper-focus) Your answers are so helpful and informative, and they resonate. The same with the little bits and pieces HG has shared in YouTube lives and interviews (my favourites of his YouTube offerings). It’s the closest I’ve found.
HG says that contagions are the rarest school. Have you ever interacted in person with another contagion? If so, what was it like?
Do you remember always being this sensitive to other’s emotional states? If not, do you remember when you realized what was happening?
What did you feel from HG when you first encountered his videos and/or blog?
If something traumatic happened to a close friend/family member, have you ever felt it if you aren’t concentrating on them? Or are you adept enough at blocking that it’s not much of an issue?
Thank you so much for your time. I greatly appreciate it.
Hi Dani and Contagious,
I have never met another contagion empath but my grandfather had a high level but I believe he was another school, my son is showing a lot of traits as well. I have family and friends etc who are empaths from other schools.
I remember feeling different from around 4/5 years. I noticed that I was very sensitive to other people. Certain people I did not go near because I didn’t like how they felt….mostly adults, but some children as well.
What did I feel from HG? This is complex. From myself I felt fear, because I felt his darkness. He is definitely a narc. I have always wanted to do a phone consult with HG but I am afraid and overwhelmed by his energy. From his work I have relief. I am not crazy this exists empaths and narcs. I have found comfort in his work on the contagion as to reasons why I am different. I feel intrigue at Mr Tudors body of work and his intelligence. Curiosity at how a Contagion and Greater/Ultra would interact. I have read Mr Tudor likes Super Magnet the most due to the energy profile etc. I don’t think he has met a contagion empath in person yet, I wonder if he is curious, and if meeting one would help him understand more. I feel sad for Mr Tudor not feeling love and positive emotions, and sad for what narcissism means to empaths in general.
Blocking friends and family emotionally? I have had to learn how to do this, with all people, it has been a journey. I have to remind myself whose energy/ emotions I am feeling, and put up an emotional protective barrier. If you can imagine feeling sad yourself, but then sad from other people on top it becomes overwhelming, and the same for other emotions.
Contagious: I have lucid dreams a lot, and warning dreams. For example I would be warned if I was going to have an encounter with a snake the night before. I always dream in colour, doesn’t everyone? One of my favourite novels is called Dreamside by Graham Joyce, it’s about lucid dreaming, I highly recommend.
I also am one to believe in signs, symbols omens etc. Insect and small creatures seem to come to me. Often I have golden scarab beetles as my back door delivering a message or letting me know things will be positive etc two in the last week. Dragonfly’s are another and lady beetles.
Nature is essential to contagians. Essential. And we draw frikin it and it to us. Dogs will run to you at a dog park. Butterflies and birds will follow you. Plants will grow as you nurture them. I have had scab bugs land in my hand. Nature loves you and you it. If a contagian you must spend time there.
With great interest I’ve read here your contributions and would like to share also a bit of my life.
Round half a year now I live with the label contagion, a label that helped me to better understand what I may be.
My feeling for and with other people is a dominant factor that cannot be erased. My moral compass makes me feel that way. (I still believe feelings are based upon thoughts)
I feel more bound to a family member than a remote stranger in some way, but what prevails is a sense of equality.
After having been amongst people I need time to find back to myself either through sleeping or reflecting my experiences, kind of sorting them into my system. Definitely best alone and without distraction.
HelloEMC and Dani: fellow contagians! We know what separates us. First: we always know what someone is feeling and often feeling always. Our intuition is incredible but because of that we bear the brunt of negative feelings and emotions so as empaths we react to it. Want to heal, nurture, and fix. Compassion. We are sponges. Second: when we encounter a narc, we emotionally know something is amiss but we apply our emotional thinking despite the sirens and red flags. Third: we attract people and animals even insects? As we have high functioning mirror imaging ( science has backed this for contagians), people tell us everything, dogs run to us at the park even if we have no food. Fourth: dreams. Our dreams are different. We have dreams in color, with the ability to alter them or lucidity and in my case sometimes although rare premonitions that come true. Or we get books, music, problems solved in dreams. I personally think the dreams are the key to contagians only a small percent in humankind have lucid dreams regularly. Fifth: we need nature like air to retreat. It’s essential. There are studies on contagian empaths and there are different brain differences. I am so interested in learning more from HG. We aren’t the first choice of his lol.
I don’t know if I am or am not a contagion (or have any part of that school in me) I haven’t taken the empath detector. There’s something that resonates with me, but as for more, I couldn’t say. I’m quite curious to learn more from HG. HG has always delivered excellent information via YouTube and here. (Love the videos and the chocolaty, velvet tone.) So glad I clicked the link to his video.
HG’s favourite are magnet super empaths. He’s said so multiple times.
Contagious
I wrote a novel called The Secret of the Sixth Sense when I was a child, I haven’t had it published. Most definitely we have a heightened sixth sense as contagion empaths.
@EMc
Tell us more about your novel?
Can you self publish it?
I’m interested!
Hello Witch,
I’m not sure I would publish it now. It was written long ago and I would probably have to rewrite. The book is written about the sixth sense, as I became aware of the ability I had and also the loneliness of being almost alien in this world with very few people who could understand. Looking back it’s from a contagion empaths perspective. I think a reason why I never published was privacy.
I will check out Graham Joyce thanks!
Emc2gion,
I can’t reply on the lowest part of this conversation, so I popped up here…was the empath detector stressful in any way?
“I have always wanted to do a phone consult with HG but I am afraid and overwhelmed by his energy. From his work I have relief. I am not crazy this exists empaths and narcs.”
I feel the same way about doing a phone consult. I’m so curious because of the complexity of my responses to Mr. Tudor’s videos. I’m certain that he has the sword to cut the Gordian knot. I also feel that getting closer could be too much.
I feel the same way about the detectors; I have no doubt that they’re thorough and help him efficiently analyze the information. (People put under the Tudor scope–I’m in awe of the amount of work he obviously does.)
“I have found comfort in his work on the contagion as to reasons why I am different.”
Is there more than the empath detector about contagions?
“I feel intrigue at Mr Tudors body of work and his intelligence. Curiosity at how a Contagion and Greater/Ultra would interact. I have read Mr Tudor likes Super Magnet the most due to the energy profile etc. I don’t think he has met a contagion empath in person yet, I wonder if he is curious, and if meeting one would help him understand more.”
When I read and/or hear his answers to some questions, I get my mind blown. Intrigued and astonished describe my feelings. It would be fascinating to hear about how the Ultra and a majority contagion interact.
I think it is the energy profile of magnet super empaths, and I think I remember hearing him say something about the challenge (because they will stand up to him (negative fuel of challenge variety as he says) they give at one point.
“I feel sad for Mr Tudor not feeling love and positive emotions, and sad for what narcissism means to empaths in general.”
Yes. I’ve heard several videos, answers in lives and the “Ask HG” series mostly, and a few articles here that have made me cry and long to comfort/heal him (despite the number of times I’ve heard his statement, “there’s no healing the narcissist.”) Others cause me very different responses.
“If you can imagine feeling sad yourself, but then sad from other people on top it becomes overwhelming, and the same for other emotions.”
If you were neutral or happy, and your best friend called you and was exceptionally angry, have you found yourself taking on all that anger and acting on it before being able to purge it?
Thank you so much.
Hi Dani,
Is there more than the empath detector about contagions? A little in some of the other contagions conversations on here, there was some mention on the Contagion in the Big Little Lies character analysis HG did as well.
If you were neutral or happy, and your best friend called you and was exceptionally angry, have you found yourself taking on all that anger and acting on it before being able to purge it?
When I was unaware of what was occurring yes. Now not so much. I am better at blocking these days, and more in touch with my emotions when I do become affected. However my best friend is empathic. If it were a narc on the other end of the phone this would be a bit different, stronger energy, more fury.
The empath detector was more confronting than stressful for me. It made me think about certain situations/ questions etc more deeply.
Hi Emc2gion,
Have you ever encountered anyone difficult to read?
Have you ever had a narcissist try to “acquire” your contagion empathy as a character trait? If so, what did it look like and how long did it take you to discover what was happening?
Hi Dani
Have I ever met someone difficult to read?
Yes, but it’s rare. When I first interact this can happen. It’s usually an Empath that is numb or very guarded but I feel this numbness etc. I’m not sure if a Greater or Ultra would also be difficult to read.
I’m not sure contagion empathy is a trait you can acquire as a narc, as it is based on intuition and that’s not something you can really copy. Other traits yes, kindness, concern etc it felt uneasy or fake. Perhaps HG could answer this?
HG can you acquire as a narc contagion empathy?
No.
Hi Emc2gion,
I meant more the narcissist putting on a show and faking contagion empathy in front of you. I would assume it would be the mid-rangers who try to put on that kind of show.
Hi Dani, hi guys, at first I thought that every empath contain a contagion element in their configuration, but it would differ in intensity and would also develop with time; as intuition can evolve with time or rather the individual learn to give more credit to this quiet voice or sensation within, with time. But Contagion is a separate school, so contagion empathy must be different from the beginning.
Also the term contagion itself points towards what it is – a person experiencing emotions of others, real or imagined, positive or negative as their own, even to the extreme. To the point of no differentiation perhaps. (Stigmata? Aside hoax and medical issue, the psychoanalytic study suggest an abnormal autosuggestibility. Perhaps a contagion variety to transfer pain/wounds on to themselves?)
In regard of narcissists, the contagion element, as I understood, provides the ability to scan the intent of the person. A feeling of incompatibility despite the compatible facade.
(I think this is where contagions and narcissists are alike – the instincts and the melting with the identities of others.)
Hi Jordyguin,
As a Contagion I don’t scan the intent of another person…..I feel it on an energetic/ emotional level. A narc may very well scan ppl yet doesn’t melt into another person rather mimics another persons traits.
Hi Emc2gion, my mistake, I should have used X-Ray scan instead of the word scan. I meant the same what you understand as „I feel it on an energetic/emotional level“. Scanning the facade of the person and what’s behind the facade via energy/ emotions/ higher attention/ feelings/ senses/ body knowledge/ intuition/ inner voice/ inner sensation/ instant knowledge/ instinct/ telepathy/ vibration/ aura sight/ internal images/…. you name it :))
Yes, the Narc mimics another persons traits. Melting is a version or a part of mimicking, in my understanding. An ability of the Narc to go undetected and fluid in this mimicking as the traits are picked up and applied to the narcissistic facade with a mastery of melting, in to a different identity. Not melting with the actual feelings and the perception of the reality (5 senses) of the other individual of course, but with the identity – the concept of the personality, the psychological data, the mind: the traits, the behavior, the expectations. HG understands us better than we do, he does it via his intellect and instincts (he mentioned the 6th sense). We understand ourselves rather via feelings and emotions and only to a degree via intellect and logic (more or less). Our logic is different to the narcissistic logic.
I should have elaborated more as I see the error now I made there. Thank you for picking it up!:))
Let me correct it. Better way to say it, would be to distinct between: Contagion-empath melt (contagion) with the emotions and feelings of people/nature/animals. As the Narc contaminate with the identity of people via the intellect (Greater, Ultra) and via instincts (Midrange, Lesser). Picking up the identity traits, making them his own, absorbing and creating a personality based on that in order to mirror and play games with the victims identity; wishes, expectations, concepts of love, truth, safety… as this concepts impact on the physical experience and the emotional output (positive/negative) of the Empath in various relationships, scenarios and produces Fuel.
Hi Jordy I have a minority Savior so the stigmata caught my eye lol. No. We just know. We know. It can be a stranger, a friend, a client or a phone call. It can be a psychopath o narc. If s degrees. Will h narcs, I feel an imbalance, something not there than sadly I start to believe this person needs love to be fixed. Or you know something isn’t right but you overlook it at first until too late. You rush in without figuring it out what’s wrong. You feel red flags but ignore them mayb because of lust etc… it won’t tak too long to realize you should have listened ti your instincts. As you get older it gets better. HG helps. After HG, good luck narcs.
EMC2, my soul sister contagian. Don’t be afraid of HG. He is knowledge. The best in the business on narcs. Whenever I spoke I felt cold wind. He joked better than hot air. But his logic. His advice. Served cold. Excellent. I don’t know if he wanted to help me but he has knowledge that helps us all.
Hello Eani3 You just know. That is a contagian.
Emc2gion, my experiences are very similar to yours. I did the empath detector last summer, I am majority contagion with super empath and a little bit of codependent. I, as well, live in the country because it is the only place where I find true peace. It wasn’t until, my late 40s before I realized that what I felt was different from what other people feel. Even as a teenager being in the shopping mall, especially during the holidays, it was so overwhelming I would almost panic to get out of there.
Sadly, I have only recently understood the term narcissist. And now realize I’ve spent/wasted a very large amount of my life dealing with them. So much is explained now.
HG’s writings have made so much clear to me. I understand so much now.
EMC2: I don’t know. I was born with it. I think. I had the dreams as a child. My parents called it a vivid imagination. Also I have very early memories which my mother replies in shock, how can you recall that you were 1-3? Yet my descriptions of the donkey in the Hudson, his bell bells, the colors of his harness. She was quiet. My brother ( possible narc) says it’s all fantasy. But I would have sleepover birthday parties. Even as a young child my friends knew. Boyfriends listened but dismissed it. As I got older, my friends who were older recognized this trait. No one who knows me has an explanation as does any logical human or me. But they listen as if I am sane. I was tested as a gifted child. My mom would not put me in a gifted school as she wanted my childhood to be normal. I was not gifted in every subject but that was the term. I still remember part of the test at 5. I wish someone could explain things to me. I search. I suspect unless neuroscience evolves in my lifetime. I won’t know until death. But I can tell you I have met contagians like me HERE.
EMC2: we know. We always know. But as I said we sometimes react in “ let’s fix this.” Bring light to darkness. Balance. Heal the other ( futile with narcs). With HG education I can now say: oh narc and it helps. Before it was a chaos I felt or something amiss. And in extreme cases: a void. A wind. Cold. We need alone time. I was a child who could entertain herself. I had friend many but you need alone time and NATURE. Nature is the cure to balance. I am not someone who meditates. My mind goes into other planes. Almost dreamlike and my dreams are too vivid to relax. But I imagine it helps others. Chanting? Exercise and a good diet, hugs, love, purpose, Faith ( I am an absolute believer always. ) ?
HG won’t probably post this.
(You are correct I won’t, I would have done so but I find any comment which challenges me not to post something irritating so you can have your prediction come true, such is my generosity).
Oh guys guys guys, I´m sooooooooo excited, looking soooo much forward to this Empath series!!! Oh boy!!!!! Sooo excited that my Geyser minority comes out!!! 😂😂😂😂 Whooosh! 😁
(@Contagion) I’ve read about your interest and experience with dreams as it crosses the parapsychology when what occurs is reaching the limits of what can be explained. I’m researching in this field as well as it shifts to the metaphysical.
We are told that we are using only 10% of our full capacity and there are many interesting views on why this is. When it comes to dreams a view that I came across lately and found interesting is: We are using only 10% of our full capacity because with the other 90% we exist in a different realm. Since we can’t fully define our world here and need metaphysical formulas that can’t be applied just to the physical at the end. As the physical existence is limited in duration and capacity.
So maybe our physical 10% state right now, is just a temporary unplugging from the 100% state and a short lived experience in order to gain this important 10% here to plug in to the remained 90% and complete the 100% as we depart from here.
Or we try to get the 90% over here to complete the 100% without departing?! The search of immortality in other words. (The immortal jellyfish – Turritopsis dohrnii, popped into my mind as I write this, who can reverse the biotic cycle and allows the jellyfish to bypass death, rendering Turritopsis dohrnii potentially biologically immortal. Hmmm, probably where James Cameron got his inspiration for the Eywa’s seeds – of the sacred tree capturing immortality of the spirit/souls – floating around Pandora like that small jellyfish.)
Why is this sphere (dreams) deemed to be perceived as loony, unimportant or reduced to cell rewiring and repairing mechanism only? 10% approach perhaps. It don’t stop certain institutions however in using remote viewing for their purposes, which is in part a dreaming technique. However it’s a very specific interest and has to be understood for what it is: a pragmatic tool to enhance the capacity of human potential if you will. I could continue on this topic forever :))
But very interesting to read about your realisations as a contagious empath. For sure the dreaming state is more complex than it appears at first sight. This area is peculiar, non-transparent and most of all uncontrollable it seems, yet certain individuals are more drawn to it than others.
Jordyguin! Thank you! Please provide book references. There is a new one called Sleep 2022 that delves in how sleep is perhaps more important than food and exercise. Perhaps even more so. It states lucid dreaming is an evolutionary state. But it is very limited. It touches on the subject of monitoring dreams but it is not very extensive nor is the ability. I wish physiatrist like Hawkings applied to the brain and dreaming in the same way they did the universe. It is fascinating what is NOT known. Your thoughts 10/90 are interesting… if only we knew what the soul and consciousness was. I read an article about a neuroscientist who was an atheist. He was brain dead for a period of time but during that time he had visions of being dormant then hearing music, seeing light and feeling peace and an ascendency before waking. His education caused him pause. All his education said he was brain dead, all the science before him said the same yet he recalled this “ dream” or memory. He became an agnostic. Some say he is liar what else can they say. Others say well we just haven’t figured it out yet. We can put man on the moon have theories on the universe such as the black hole but no sense of dreaming? Dreams are different for me. Always lucid, in color, like a movie but some I recognize and feel inside as an issue to resolve or situation current. Others feel very different. They are urgent, cold in temperature feeling as I wake up cold and can be prophetic. HG would say coincidence. But? I had to separate friends this year reach out in symbolic (one) and direct to say a loved one died. I followed up. One was a boyfriend who had died and another was a mother. My entire life has been like this but it’s not regularly. I wrote and published two books given to me in dreams. I have one more. This dream was on Celtic myth and when I woke. I looked up those in my dream to recognize them. I didn’t know I had the education not consciously. Maybe dreams are a genetic dna. Could memories pass? Maybe traumas do too? Anything I can get my hands on please send my way. My only uneducated thought on your 90/10 idea is it’s my thought whatever is next has no time or space it is infinite. All times. All space. This might be one. But I have no science to back it. I only have a lifetime of these dreams that reflect both past current and future events. Not the regular ones … those are symbolic of what I am living or thinking about but the ones from left field that shock me. I call them the cold dreams as I awake cold and feeling shocked. It’s why I explore. I am a believer and it is easy to say all is God but I look to a scientific explanation. “They” say psychology is not a science but medications are prescribed right? Neurologist, MIRs, can see grey matter, prefrontal lobe variations, can identify bipolar etc…and mirroring can be seen in contagian Sincethis specific blog tread is about contagians Empaths…I would say we need to retreat, nature, to regroup. I also suspect we are lucid dreamers. And dream different. How does this help with narcs? I am a journaler since 12!!! Yes since 12 because of my “ crazy” dreams and when involved with narcs, I could look back and see the signs. These might be normal hunches or clues that I should have accepted that minute or??? And contagians tend to go deep, below the surface on touch on topics that are “ paranormal” or not scientifically explained. But we search the depth of any explanation … or person. Truthseekers+ Thanks again! Nice to meet you;)
* physicist not psychiatrist. I hate spell check
Hii Contagious:))nice to meet you too! Your experience and observations are very interesting!! I can relate to your thirst for the „what is not known“! I absorb information from different sources. Science, Myth, traditional and alternative History+Archeology, Biology, Nature, Shamanism, Religions, Traditions, Psychology and basically everything that gets my attention and I find interesting. Sometimes I would visit events connected to that fields. I am an observer of information as I put it together and explain it trough my lens. The knowledge is fragmented and the pieces must be collected and put together individually, based on the needs of the individual, but there are parallels in experiences that occur in the same way for groups of individuals.
The dreaming body connects to time differently. It connects to the past and the future simultaneously; to the morphogenetic field (pre-manifestational stage of our reality) and the inorganic world and/or other organic worlds that operate on a different vibrancy or on the same as ours.
The book I would recommend would be „Being in Dreaming“ by Florinda Donner-Grau. You might find some answers in it from the female-dreamer perspective, perhaps not to all but to some of your questions, I would assume:))
Also HG once answered me said “ coincidence” I disagreed as how could someone dream about the exact time of death of a murdered love one when the LA coroner put it within fifteen minutes of dying and you never attended the trial and wrote it down before? How could you dream about the date of a premature baby being born? Or a friends mother passing who you rarely talk to? Or a dead friend’s boyfriend passing who you never met? Etc… Again I may be wired to pick on almost nonexistent facts to reveal an event or???
Thank you for the book referral!
You’re very welcome!:)) The main character (dreamer practitioner) in the book was a student at UCLA♡
Take a look at this! Indy and others on the blog are in to lucid dreaming as well. If I understood correctly Indy is also working in the field of psychology. She contributed with many wonderful views and insights, from what I came across so far in the archive.
https://narcsite.com/2016/11/22/crystal-ball-gazing-2/#comment-49378
I read your references and wished it helped. but crystals etc.. I have no experience. Most new age stuff fails to reach me but I seek it and respect it. Maybe just me? I have never met a psychic that helped or was real beyound a good psychologist and perhaps intuition. I have never seen a ghost that I recognize ok maybe thouught I saw. I seek scientific facts as well as others like you who are caught without answers. It is a hope as HG provided answers to subjects unknown… maybe he can.
Jordyguin: The other thing that gets me is always knowing what another is feeling. Not always thinking. Does this fit in with your research? I have studied the history of man and dna. I have studied religion, not all but origination dates which I find compelling. I am not a scientist, I am an attorney in 3 states, so I approach probably through training with skeptics and logic. I read what I can on the subject. I shall read morphogenetics. Never heard of it before. Again thanks! And thanks to HG for letting me learn this perhaps…off subject.
One more comment: if lucid dreaming is thought to be by scientists as a human evolutionary trait. How does it help? Everything dreams since the beginning of life say scientists. All do.
Dear Contagious, you are very welcome, I share what I can, what I know :)) Skeptics and logic are the best traits if you ask me! They protect us.
Regarding your questions:
For instance before hurricanes occur, wild animals would move away, leaving the region the catastrophe is going to take place, days before. We call it instinct. In fact they are connected to something that is giving them the knowledge of the future event, which could harm or end their physical existence. Only few people would experience the sudden need or call to leave the place of future catastrophe, wanting to visit someone further away, or go for an unplanned hike, road trip etc. And even fewer would dream about the event in advance – week, month, year or years before – driven by the sense of reality of the dream – to leave this place and move somewhere else. And when the realisation of the event and the dream hits them, they know they are connected to something through their dreams. Something very practical.
Children would convey their dreams to the adults, getting a response: it’s just a dream, it’s meaningless. Shutting down child’s connection and openness to this state. Whatever treatment or what the adult is saying is law. Unfortunately child’s psyche obeys the law and shuts down in the most cases its abilities. So the (alternative) science is trying to reverse this processes, this setups and limitations our society was/is encountered with in the setup phase of our childhood.
Another example would be; the out of nowhere state of deja vu. The person who is experiencing this short state can foresee what will happen next, with great detail to every word, movement, sound. Usually we only see the past in that way – moving away from us – detailed. There is a suggestion that we can see the future in the same way as we see the past, as it rather coming at us. To see both directions of time.
The science suggest that we can access the vaster use of the brain not only in dreams but in the waking state as well. Lucid dreaming is just the start, the first gate. The bridges towards – what is possible, are constantly taken apart and rebuilt and it depends on the individual it seems how the application, the crossing of the bridge works.
Direct knowledge in dreams or telepathy in the waking life is one of the traits, thus in your case you know what others are feeling/thinking, as you mentioned from your experience. It happens instantly, there is no gap for you to ask for it as you are given the information instantly, your dreaming body (or some part of the brain) pics up the signals/information in the morphogenetic field about the person, place or event.
This is fascinating. I also have experienced lucid dreaming. I am also very interested in parapsychology. In my DNA results it told me I have the gene for remembering dreams. I didn’t even know one existed. There is so much we do not understand about the human brain.
Jordyguin: I read your older blogs and HGs comments. You can see while our dreams and experiences are true, others can see I as coincidence or new age nonsense. I seek to step away from that. I have had RLS my whole life as does my fathers side: all Nordic. It’s a Nordic necrologic disease. I was told before the Mayo Clinic found a cute during Parksian disease treatment that it was growing pains, blood veins, etc… nothing helped until ropinile. My treatment. Among many. But no one can explain premonition dreams.or dreams. And I think this is instead too contagious. Perhaps we have cognitive ability to mirror, but I think it goes deeper. We just know.
And as you said and it is true know one knows. But we do. I seek understanding and meeting others helps. Do you know how rare it is to meet others? I think lucid dreamers who ate considered on some evolutionary trek are 6% I think as shocked at some cold case event I went years ago and over 50 were there. No one lucid dreams! HG said he didn’t dream if I recall correctly.
Anna: could you refer to me to the dna expert was who said you remembered dreams? Be most grateful! X
“Anna: could you refer to me to the dna expert was who said you remembered dreams? Be most grateful! X”
Hi Contagious. I did my DNA test with Ancestry DNA. I paid for the test plus the traits. The traits showed me that I have a gene for remembering dreams. It shows other traits too.
Btw my dream this week involved a party in an unknown location with unknown people and animals but at the end the childhood friend I went with … her dead mother revealed she had breast cancer. That was the message at the very end of a ling dream. Do I call her? I haven’t spoke to her in 20 years and what if again my dream is right. Why? Why? Why?
I’ve worked myself into the HG-subject of empaths and narcisists for some weeks now and get slowly the lexicon used by HG. I am a labeled contagion (Empath Detector) and have besides emotional empathy also kognitive empathy (this is my self-perception). I don’t see anything wrong in aware narcisism, it’s just honest. I thank HG for making me a more aware empath.
SP,
I do the same thing that you do when stressed, go for a run..found it funny that we both do that. I think the Contagion ability developed as a self defense mechanism, feeling someone else’s emotions allowed us to know the moods of others, so we could be safe around them, or know to move away from them. My thoughts on it, may be correct or not.
You might be on to something. My mother is cold. Does not reveal emotions. New England WASP practical stock. Whereas my father was nothing but emotion, an artist, a musician, a vet, an alcoholic, shift through it all to find out. Perhaps that’s why at a very very very young age. I became a contagion. Known for my dreams. And always. Knowing exactly what people are feeling. Thanks!
Contagious,
You’re welcome, sorry I didn’t see your reply before. I also sometimes experience other’s emotions, it happens randomly and I’m not aware of it right away until I figure out it’s not me who’s angry, but I experience the feeling like it’s mine….but, I can tell it’s not me because I have nothing to be angry about, or whatever emotion it is I feel from other person. I don’t like it, so again I think part of me blocks it sometimes and other times it comes through regardless of what I want. My best friend’s 8 yr old daughter has ADHD and she was feeling very anxious and buzzing energy. I felt it like it was mine and I felt like a locked up horse right before the gates are opened. I was ready to launch off and I had to get out of the building and away from her. I had to get outside and breathe, deep breaths and let the air out of my lungs forcible and pace for a little bit. That was the worse feeling her emotions. I never felt so much anxious energy before, it was just overwhelming to me. I felt I couldn’t take a breath, like I was in water over my head. I hate it when it happens. I also found out, through talking on the blog, that I’m also a HSP, so I’m sensitive to my environment around me and my senses are sensitive, even my nose smells everything before most of the people around me. Gas leak, I’ll smell it first and get a headache from the fumes. I can smell incense throw the package. I’m practically a bloodhound, should sniff luggage at the airport…I always felt odd because of, what I thought and felt were extra senses, or just extra sensitive to everything. Now thanks to talking to other empaths on the blog, I understand more about myself and of course it wouldn’t have been possible without HG’s work being here to help educate me on myself, too. Thanks HG and thanks to some of the empaths here. Xx
Hi Rebecca: Interesting. If you are contagian it sounds like not only is your sensitivity to emotions heightened but one of your senses. I will go out on a limb but I think contagians have a heightened sixth sense. Our intuition is unparalleled . I meet someone and I could be a “psychic” and tell that person a lot about themselves and what they are thinking and feeling. This instinct has helped me in my career, law. I have always been a “finder”. In law, the business side of it is finders, binders and grinders. Finders make rain or bring clients in, binders are administrative, supervise staff, grinders are those introvert types who are really smart and grind out the briefs. I have always been a rainmaker. Made partner at a young age and now run my own firm. Clients come and I know what they want and how they feel. The legal system itself is cold. Based allegedly on logic. But there is a human component to it. Of course. Now my mother can’t smell as her mother chained smoked. Her hearing and eye sight is magnified as a result. I think we are on to something here. Why do contagians have heightened intuition even dreams? Perhaps something was taken? I don’t know but as a 1 or 2 year old I have my first memory. My mother was shocked. She said you were too young you could not possibly remember that park and the donkey. I described the donkeys colorful almost gypsy holt, and his bell and The park which was in Tarrytown in New York. Home of the headless horseman. Johnny Depp did a movie on my park Sleepy Hollow. I not only notice my memories are vivid. Science says we have excellent mirroring. It’s easy to fall into subjects that have no science backing like dreams are from God. I believe that 100%. I believe I have seen other dimensions. I have seen too many dead ones I loved to dismiss it. When I visited my fathers home after he died, even my mother who is extremely conservative and borderline atheist said: that had to be your father. I have had dreams where people cry for help to call them the next day. Only to be told their mother passed. I had a deceased high school friend visit me in a dream about her boyfriend only to find out the next day he had died. These dreams are infrequent but powerful. I had a best friend murdered at 40 and I had a dream that recounted it only to identify the time of death. The LA coroner had a wi Dow of 30 minutes. I had it within that window from the dream etc… my whole life since childhood has included out of the blue lucid dreams. Full color like a movie but surreal some of them. I could go on but my point is I could go down the rabbit hole where there is no science. But science has limitations on ALOT. Cant wait for HG take on us! Xxx
Contagious,
I have premonitions from time to time, sometimes my dreams tell me things, sometimes it’s a knowledge that comes over me suddenly and without a doubt comes to pass. It’s like a warning of what’s to come. I do have Contagion as one of my triple hybrid schools/ cadres. I always get confused as to which one it is, school or Cadre? Anyway, I have early memories too and my dad was shocked I remembered some things from when I was 2. I described the person holding my hand, while dad was driving us to the ER. Our neighbor was holding me in her lap, while keeping pressure on my cut open thumb. My brother handed me an exacto blade, blade first and I grabbed it firmly and it cut my thumb open to the bone. I remember the pain, the blood and my dad freaking out. I remember the neighbor, her dark red hair and glasses, my dad’s panic and what that felt like. 😳 I was calm. It’s funny, when there’s a crisis, like a bad event, traumatic, I’m calm. When I got robbed, at the bank I worked at, I was calm, didn’t panic and described to the police, in great detail his appearance, his clothes, what the note said, etc. I was so calmed, the police thought I was involved and my co workers told them, no, she wouldn’t do that to us. I was a little scared, but I knew panicking wouldn’t help matters, so I was calm on the outside. Sorry, write more later.
Contagious,
Continuing….again, sorry had to go to work, on break, so I’ll add more….
I’ve had experiences where I have dreams about people, who have passed and they’ll tell me things that happen later and I was visited by my brother, right after he passed, woke me up, I felt his heart attack and his last moments. It sounds crazy, but I don’t care. I know what I felt and later it was confirmed by the M.E. the heart attack I felt and she approximated the time I felt my brother’s pain. I know there are those that say, horse shit, but I felt it, I felt it and I don’t care ,if I sound nuts. I also knew my dad wasn’t going to live too long, after mother died. I just knew it, a forewarning came over me. I can’t explain it, I just knew. I also can read vibes from people and feel their moods, close to me, through the phone and sometimes through text. Contagious, Do you find , when you’re highly nervous or excited, that your own emotions get in the way of you feeling someone else’s emotions, or is that just me?? I’d really like to know that. Thanks for your thoughts and comments. Xx
Rebecca: my kin. My soul sister. Yes. I could have been a nurse. I am always calm at crisis. Example: when at law school my neighbor was being raped by a phone cord and knife. She was only 5 feet from my ear. I called out and said police were cc’ing and called the cops. I viewed him running. I could have been her, cops saw the acing at my window and a neighbor saw a sky mask. He was a San Diego serial Taoist’s in the nineties in a reggae band at a club Winston’s called visited her nam and as Clare. A fellow law student. But I cannot say it had to do with contagian. Plenty of people can respond in a crisis including narcs. I can say it felt like slow motion as if time had stopped. Why?
Contagious,
Have you ever experienced not being able to read someone’s emotions because your own emotions were too strong?? Like your emotions are in the way…?? It might be because I have Geyser as one of my three schools/cadres…I’m just curious about your thoughts on this, thanks for your comments and thoughts. Xx
HG, What’s the difference between School and Cadre?? Not knowing myself is driving me nuts. Xx
School relates to driving behaviours mainly, cadre with regard to preference behaviours.
HG please tell me what is flawed. What are your thoughts. I just write down something unusual I dreamed. Some became scary reality …days or months later like the dream of the birthdate of my premature son… how could I have known months earlier when he would be born,? or something the timeof death of my murdered friend… how could have known the time of death that was shown to me on a clocks and the wrist of the killer if I didn’t attend the third trial and learned of it by thLA coroner ? others became books as the story was interesting to me. Others are just “ movies in my head.” Others involve deceased. People I know or barely know or I thought I forgot talking to me showing me things. While it is flawed I don’t write down every dream as most are nightly, the ones that feel “ important I record. And read them after the fact to others when facts panned out. More importantly, don’t you see a distinction in your dreams as a psychopath narcissist. Maybe something there that differentiates us brain wise. Something telling not explored? I could accept that I dream from memories stored from a lifetime and perhaps I consciously forget. Not norm but explainable. I could accept that hat I have an imaginative mind as my husband says. But it does not explain dates and times exact of future events I could not know. 2:17? Why? I had no idea the time and date of her murder. And she was showing it in my dream. She was the director. There’s more she showed me. I respect you. I am hoping you explain things I have not found over my lifetime actually. I don’t know how it helps or hurts narc relations although reading back in my journals the answer wAs there. I ignored the deeams. But I find contagions have these dreams maybe not other Empaths so at least we are the same. When I googled lucid dreams it showed people in general had them once in a life time I believe. Contagions seem to have a lifetime of regular experiences. I went to a cold case workshop and when telling my dream of my friend, the instructor asked the 50 other attendees Id they had lucid dreams. One did. I knew then I was not dreaming “ normally.” On this site, thank you from the bottom of my heart I have met others like me. Not crazy. Just different. I have thank you HG as you are the very best in your field and any insight into why, what’s a contagian and why narcs like us specifically and what kind… it will help. How other contagions handle narcs, also help. Can’t wait to learn from you!
I am delving deeper. I read this article from the New Yorker magazine tonight named Olsen who said the night her mother died she had a dream ( lead to her hit) where she arrived in a place Narnia style and she was told by people that time worked differently: clocks chimed, church bells, loud ticking. And she was told Big Time where time is fluid and nonlinear. She always had vivid dreams but not like this one….
I then researched.and found Mozart, Beethoven and Wagner wrote music from dreams. Painters such as Durer, famously Fuseli, Salvador Dali, Goya and Blake who painted ghosts, Hieronyous Bosch and many others claimed their work was from a dream. There must be a link with a creative mind and contagians. I wonder if it has been studied. Dali said his art were photographs from dreams.
And I read scientific articles including one February 2022… that try to explain dreaming as a process of healing in the brain. They give examples. But most never explain places and people never seen or events not known. It is frustrating.
I did research on dreams of psychopaths. This is what I found. They have high levels of testerone and low cortisol hormones. Less stress. They don’t have mirror neurons like contagians. They have a smaller amygdala and prefrontal cortex. Their corpus callosum is larger. All genetically coded. There are more theta brainwaves. EEG s can see this. It’s a natural meditative state. The frontal cortex and limbic cortex differ. It’s a state of oneness at all times. There is a genetic code of the “ warrior gene” of MAOA (3R) makes need 1, females 2. sHITLPR, COMT, DRDA, PRD2. FRMI scans can see structural brain differences. I read James Fallon. Many but not all don’t dream. I could not find literature yet on narcissists. Interesting. It’s a definite difference. If this Fallon studies are right that is….
This is a very interesting finding, Contagious! Thank you for sharing it!
This specifically : „ There are more theta brainwaves. EEG s can see this. It’s a natural meditative state. The frontal cortex and limbic cortex differ. It’s a state of oneness at all times. There is a genetic code of the “ warrior gene” „
This explains why psychopaths in groups can perform unimaginable crimes for instance at war. The meditative state and the oneness at all times — identically wired, no empathy = crimes against humanity in every war..
Meditative state is a state where thinking is absent — the critical thinking especially! Institutions that are responsible for wars of any type, prefer to recruit that type of people. Where critical thinking is absent any ideology can be poured in. This people are like this by design or if they are not, they are trained to reduce critical thinking. Not to question the authority.
To seek freedom from anxiety in a meditative state is stagnation from my point of view.
If a person is trying to get rid of anxiety or internal dialogue connected to trauma and is able to do so through deep breathing, connecting to nature in silence or listen to relaxing tunes or by other technics such as movement, sport or really ANY OTHER activity can do that basically, it’s a different thing. Calling that a meditation can be tricky because could lead a person to join cults or any type of ideology based institution where an individual is supposed to obey to ideology, practices (by which critical thinking should be exterminated) or a cult leader in order to find salvation or enlightenment.
„Free thinkers“ (creative, critical thinking) struggle and suffer in those institutions. „Empty thinkers“ (no creative thinking, no critical thinking) are like copy machines, they find it very pleasant to be in that state and would happily propagate it.
For instance the magnificence of HGs work is a high level activation of the critical thinking! Every article bears a key for understanding and awakening the „sleeping victim“.
Yet still psychologist label him a psychopath. That don’t rhyme up in my view..
I know he is a „dark prince“ by design, but there is far more to that..
I must admit I am bewildered by meditation. I am a yoga practitioner and tried meditation. Unless seriously physically drained my mind whirls in meditation. Only in REM sleep and in dreams do I have unconscious thinking and it is here in my consciousness I don’t understand there. My son is a marine and very free thinking. During a military exercise against enemies the team was asked what would work best against the enemy. One said rifles and drew up a map. One said fire blowers. Another chose bombs. When my son was asked what was the best weapon…he pointed to his head and said… the mind. They nicknamed him Woke which he hates as he considers himself beyond that. But I don’t discount meditation. Wish I could find the umm.
Yet many military don’t have that gene and are warriors. I was concerned as my son who is empathetic is trained in killing as a marine. HG stated to me in a consult the differences. Being trained as a soldier is not the same as a psychopath with a warrior gene. In fact , those in the military see the differences. In Iraq, my son said the entire group there hated this abusive “leader” and his lack of empathy. He recognized if in combat, this “ leader” could combat the enemy but he was so despised by the group that they would leave him in a ditch to die. This group was trained warriors.
I see :)) I have a fascination about worriers, soldiers and leaders in general! The majority in my fathers lineage are from that field, so this type of individuals are always on my mind as the contradiction they’re evoking in me.
In addition to the meditation and the mediative state; I saw a documentary couple years ago, about how one religious group exterminated another religious group in their nearby area, by killing every female in that village. The religious aggressor group were of the meditating type. So I ultimately question the meditation or the desired nirvana state. (To me nirvana sounds like stagnation anyway. I have an aversion for it. An aversion to the idea of shutting off my ability to think. As to what meditation is aiming at). Perhaps there is a difference what happens with the warrior-gene type who is in that mediative state and an individual without that gene, who is not in that state or reaching a different outcome if he/she meditate?
The study explain: „There are more theta brainwaves. EEG s can see this. It’s a natural meditative state. ..It’s a state of oneness at all times.“
This oneness at all times! Those males acted as ONE when they stormed that village, hunted every female down and killed them. And than – uuuummm as ONE again.
Not something a meditating person is expected to do. This puts mediative state in a category of hypnosis perhaps. Otherwise I can’t explain the mass murder tendency running so smoothly in an average villager, who is not even a soldier. (Oh wow, just realised the parallels with that film „Chaos Walking“ with Daisy Ridley !)
As to my understanding the outcome of this study is talking about a worrier-gene beehive in a mediative (no rationalising) state, even when they are not purposefully meditating. A beehive that is easier to set up for mass murder, to fight as ONE for that ONE god, ideal, reason. Because of that missing rational (from the empathic point of view).
Jordyguin! I have met a soulmate here lol! Just saw your reply! Yes, and think of Putin.
I consulted HG about concerns about my son before he went to Iraq. My son is a compassionate incredible man but I can’t escape the fact that he is a trained killer. When the bombs hit the embassey where he was staying he asked his friends not to tell me to protect me. I saw it as national news ( this was in retaliation for killing a popular general of theirs and thank goodness we had anti ballast ice defense weapons!) When asking my son about the experience he said “ It definitely got my adrenaline going.” I said did you want to run? He said “ We are trained to run towards danger not from it.” Eek! HG spent time explaining how trained military is not training narcs. Very different. Not all who kill are alike either. It eased my mind. Meditation? I never got into it. Although I find a good massage to be close! Lol As to the warrior gene being in narcs, I wonder and expect it exists elsewhere too. There is so much to learn! Jordyguin I love your replies and appreciate meeting you;)
This is absolutely fascinating!!! Your son’s reply! “ We are trained to run towards danger not from it.” Do you know your son’s school and cadre?
Just think about it; Both kinds are trained to run towards the possibility of death! The narcissist and /or psychopath will run towards it because they don’t experience fear and to maintain a functioning protective mechanism by maintaining control in the battle situation. Narcissists/psychopaths could fight on both sides. The side doesn’t matter, nor the ideology. It doesn’t matter what to fight for as long there is an opportunity to fight and win.
The empath (and the normal?) are overcoming the fear of death and run towards danger, by reason they find in unison with their empathic traits (protection, care, truth, justice, honour, etc.)
The wars (physical, economical, technological, medical, geopolitical, agricultural, etc.) of our times are wars between rulers who are fighting for supremacy. It never was more obvious how unnecessary wars are, than it is now, yet still the rulers involve both kinds to fight for their maintenance of control – of their narcissistic protective mechanisms – the narcissistic prime aims.
Lol! Oh yes, we like massage here :)))) The best invention of all times!
*Correction. Narcissists do experience fear. Psychopaths don’t. But the hybrids (N+P) don’t experience fear.
Jordy: wish we could meet for coffee. You are unique to me. Never met someone with so much in common.:)
Too bad, it is against the rules.
One day! One day! There will be a Tudor Convention!!! La lalalalala
Looking forward to this one!
In reading this there is of course a lot of similarity among empaths- not surprising. As to HG I could not agree more-there is a brutal uncovered honesty and expertise and purity in understanding human behavior both narc and empath. To this end we might look at ourselves as having underlying operating systems that govern our behavior and our desires. Maybe even our dreams. Though scientifically trained I have had numerous experiences that would be considered “magical thinking”. Many have, of course panned out to occur in reality later- far more than chance would allow. Even HG has mentioned that empaths can feel the energy of people and places, both of which would be considered magical in the world of science and therefore not credible. I have also had literally thousands of meaningful lucid dreams, dozens of clairvoyant episodes and so forth all of which I consider normal for my operating system. The only thing I will say with regard to my experience with Narcissists is they had a field day with my magical thinking and it made me an easy target (pre HG!). The main difference as I understand it is the presence or absence of empathy and the ability to control our operating system. Empaths can when educated and needed be more narcissistic but not vice versa. Because that is not fun for me I am choosing different people rather than trying to figure out what the alien nation of narcissists is up to. I know, I understand, I accept and I avoid- except for HG. While the darkness is undeniable the contribution to the world is also undeniable. This should I think, mitigate against labeling and judging the complex nature of human behavior unless and until it damages you! I neither hate nor love my previous narcissists. They are what they are. But I have HG to thank for that understanding of them and myself. I doubt it would have happened as quickly or effectively otherwise. For this I am grateful to the Ultra. I am also grateful for what I am. The world certainly needs us, and not just for FUEL!
Love this comment Dave.
Again… dreams. I have written a lot here about mine. I am fascinated to meet others like me. It seems always in contagion. What does this mean? Why do we have these dreams? Why are we different? And … HG said he does not dream. My ex wealthy husband was diagnosed anti social, he did not dream. My ex boyfriend that I consulted HG about was a mid-narc, he was afraid of my dreams. He had trouble sleeping. He had nightmares when I first met him. Spiders. I am not sure I have had a nightmare ever unless you consider the murder of my best friend in law school where she told me the time of her death and the motive later this was revealed in the third trial where the criminal pled guilty and her family told me of the time and motive. I awoke screaming in that dream and prayed to God to never do this to me again. It was freezing cold. I have sought answers and have found none about this. I am hoping HG in his genius knows. It is clear that that the subconscious if that’s dreams are different for Empaths and narcs. Thoughts?
As a science based empath Dave why the dreams? And you know what I mean by those type of “dreams?” Please explain as I am haunted by mine. I don’t understand “why”. Is there an answer? Like, we have some hypersensitivity that can actually predict things like a computer? Some mentalist subconscious that our conscious is unaware? Magic does not exist. So if you have an answer, I would love it and be so obliged!!!!
I will give an example: I dreamed I was an Asian girl in the 1800s in Thailand and my father was a beggar saving elephants. He collected in the streets. . I was a teen and wanted to see my grandmother and mother across town. I went to my grandmother who was beautiful and elaborate in dress but would not speak until I told her if someone who had died in the village then she would repeat it with me. It comforted her. My mother was so so so young and pretty and almost my age but she lived in the back of the house where others would “ visit”. She was with two other men and a woman who were close friends. When the “others” came to visit my mother and friends, my mother pushed me out of the room to my grandma who hid me in a closet. The next day only my mother returned to her room and she was nearly catatonic and all she said was her friend had been strangled. I knew my mother then became catatonic after saying this as I kept speaking to her and she was a zombie. I realized what had happened and that she she was a prostitute. I ran to my father down a few miles into the busy village. I sat next to him in new awakened comfort and I took a page from his pad and began drawing elephants. Now: I am Dutch/ Swedish, never had any sexual abuse, never met any one like them and could describe them and the place in 3d, I did not watch anything in news or a movie or a book about it in anyway. I don’t feel like anyone in my dream, not in any way. So why? Nothing ever fits. My dreams are probably boring as anyone has them but not out of complete rationalization or do they? This is an off topic example about an almost weekly existence of my life. You can image why how badly I want answers. Any insight is appreciated. From just this cite, I see others who get “ it.” Since this is about narcs… my guess like HG they don’t dream or like my ex antisocial who didn’t, there is a thread of explanation of the differences.
Now imagine every week at least you dream about different people, different times, different places , some dead you know, some loved ones and none of it relates to your own life in 5 senses. Like you are really there. You wake up like on a vacation. Often ask ok ? Where am I? Yup it’s my bed.. Wouldn’t you want to know why? And if you do, please share. Please ever grateful.
You haven’t read the bible?
People get dreams in there all the time. They are from God, but difficult to decipher. God only talked straight with Moses, most other people he talks in riddles.
I’ve found that most of the ones I have are predictions or commentary. The commentary is usually sarcastic and playful which you wouldnt expect from the God of the old testament.
There are certain recurring symbols like a car represents a church, the driver is the pastor.
Contagious,
I have some Contagion in me, but I’m a Standard triple hybrid and I’ve had premonitions in dreams before and things actually happened afterwards. I’ve had extra feelings about a coming event, like a forwarning and it happens . I had a farwarning of my dad’s passing and the relative time it was going to happen. I tried to prevent it, but it happened out of my control. I felt I failed him and wasn’t there for him. Thankfully, I don’t get these episodes every week, they happen randomly, however I do pick up on people’s vibes, essences whatever you want to call it, on a regular basis and I’m thankful for that forwarning. The prediction dreams scare me and I don’t welcome them as much, maybe that’s why I don’t have them much? Maybe some part of me blocks them with my fear or reluctants to experience them again? Something I didn’t consider before….I’m going to think on that thought….
I just from bushes reading a Harvard professor and specialist book called Why We Sleep. Chapter 3 is on REM sleeping where dreams occur. The brain is 30% more active then when awake. Three parts of the brain are involved in the he hippocampus ( memory), cortex, amalyga. All stress signals are suppressed. She says it’s the emotional healer of the brain, the most creative and it connects abstracts. She feels lucid dreamers although a minority are on an evolutionary track. She states great ideas and art come from REM dreams like Edison, McCartney ( sounds), Keith Richard’s ( satisfaction) but she does not address premonitions. She admits not much is known except REM dreams have evolved much later in humankind. All species dream even with me 500 million years ago. It’s important for memory, emotion, face recognition identically citation of emotions, motor skills and health. PTSD has a block to REM dreaming. There has been advances to help. Medications. Ancient Egyptians and Greeks felt dreams were God given. Freud felt they were unfulfilled wishes. Her take is they are not memory replayers of the day but rather link with the autobiographical memory of the mind. Problem solves. Emotionally heals. Funny as she starts with imagine being in a hallucination, delusionary and wake up with amnesia. What function can this play? As a lucid dreamer, I want to write her. Many questions she ignored in her book. Such as what about a narcs memories that run deep? The emotional ability to identify facial emotions enhanced by REM dreams sleep and a contagians abilities. Connection? And of course what about facts not observed consciously that appear in dreams. Have a good night!
Dave,
Your comment that you are choosing different people rather than trying to figure them out stood out to me. Thinking back on all the toxic relationships I have been in, those people chose me and then love bombed me in order to attach me to them (friends and romantic). I have rid myself of these people and am working on my no contact. I think that is the key for those of us here. We need to choose who we allow into our life rather than allowing them to choose us. From now on I will be standing back and observing them in the way they observe us before targeting us. I will be watching for red flags, observing how they interact with other people and watching for those masks to slip before I allow them into my personal life. I am also avoiding romantic entaglements for a good year, focusing on my life, my interests, my mental health, and career goals. Then I will be a fit partner and I WILL CHOOSE a fit partner if one presents.
I have also had a lot of “magical thinking” experiences. I have had lucid dreams that manifest sometimes years later. In many of my dreams I have the experience that time has no meaning as we know it. As if the past, present, and future exists all at the same time. And yes, people have had a field day with me too.
Also, when my ex and I were house hunting I noticed that every house had a different energy and that was more of an influence than any other when I was considering the right house for our family. I just now correlated this thought with my addiction to narcissists and psychopaths. That feeling I get when I’m around them. That haunting, raw, feral feeling that draws me to them every time. The house that I became emotionally attached to gave me that same feeling. It was the old classic four room farmhouse that had been added onto many times over the years. There was something wild and sad about it. Quirky with many imperfections. My husband was in complete dismay over the condition of the house, but it had property. A barn, outbuildings and a pond. We tore down walls, including load bearing walls for open concept. Completely gutted it down to the bare bones, put in new electrical, plumbing and hvac. For me this house had it’s own personality and a sense of anguish that seemed to reside there. I wanted to care for it and restore it and replace that energy with the love and joy of my family.
Later when talking to the neighbors and the home health professionals making home visits for my dying mother I learned that there had been a lot of bad energy and death in that house. Many of the neighbors believed my house was haunted and the neighbor lady offered to bring sage do a ritual. I thought great we have a crazy neighbor lady.I was hearing that it may have been a meth house at one point. A man who was member of hells angels even died of cancer there. When they had a memorial members came from all over the states and the property was packed with motorcycles in tribute to this man. Also in early years when the circus came to town they would take up residence here during their stay and there was talk of the elephants being watered in the creek that was part of the property that had been sold over the years.
I love a house that has a sense of history and am actually looking into changing careers to become a real estate agent. Forget new construction. Give me an historical house any day.
Every place, we are in, is historic. Everywhere someone was born, someone died. These are generations of people. Houses, settlements, churches, cities – have been and have disappeared.
Where there is a playground for children now, there used to be a cemetery. Where you have now built a modern house, there used to be an inn for carriage ride. Here the king went, and there the beggar was dying. Here there was a battle and blood seeped in, and there a couple in love made love among the grasses.
And this house and this car, that you are so proud of, and these photos and these clothes will disappear, turn into nothing.
So far, the only thing that lasts in the human world is what we pass on to each other, genes, thoughts, feelings.
As long as we exist.
-‐——————
When it comes to dreams, we only dream about what we already know + glue the imagination and mixing (eg Centaur). If you dream about Thailand, you play the role of an Asian woman and you are able to recognize it, you have met it somewhere, on TV, newspaper, book, radio, from another person’s stories. Everything that you have already experienced with some sense.
This is nothing new. You are processing experiences.
JOA,
Yes it is fascinating to contemplate all that has been before us. We are such a short blip in the scheme of things much like the fruit fly that only lives for a day or so. I often wonder about the perception of time for a fruit fly. I wonder if a day for them feels the same as a lifetime for us. Much like the idea of someone returning from space where everyone has aged but the travelor hasn’t.
I am torn Joa. Part of me agrees, it must be an experience read, witnessed in this life. My subconscious must not be in the majority. I dream “ weird”. I must tap into some memory in my conscious life to draw on. But then I have had dreams I cannot ignore like the murder of my best friend. All I was told was she was dead could I come to the trial. The DA forbade the family from discussing anything. I had left countless messages on her phone not knowing she was dead. Before I went to the trial knowing zero…. I had a dream that left me on my knees. It was ice cold. In it, I kept seeing clocks, a watch, all 2:17. Her lavender notebook on her desk opened to a page that read “Lenny money.” I thought a name. I learned at her third trial the truth. The onlytrial that I attended that the Lacororner testified said that she died between 2:15 and 2:30 am. Her mother actually thanked me at lunch when I read her my dream from my journal. I was asked if I knew what the DA said led to her murder. No. He said her roommate killed her over an argument over money. There is more to this “dream.” And it’s not the only type I have had but I will never be told it was a coincidence or that it was based on experience. This one…no. And my physical experience was horrifying. I prayed on my knees crying never to let it happen again. I begged God to not let it happen again too. My friend spoke to me after death and there was more. I need more. I want to know why. I probably never will. But I am happy to meet others with similar experiences. Until this forum I have not.
Joa: my husband feels their is a ghost in my house. I do not. I don’t really believe in them to be honest. Things I have seen, heard or felt I can rationally explain away. But I wonder can someone bring a presence where ever they go? He seems too. Have you heard of this? Is he just unlucky? I just think it’s in his head.
Joa,
When my mother died, I knew with complete certainty that my dad only had a short time with me before he would pass and my brother too. I had a dream about, after I had that strong feeling, a warning of it all happening…in the dream, I was sitting in my parent’s living room. My parents were there and so was my brother. We were all sitting and talking together, I could hear their voices,but couldn’t understand what they said. My mother left the room and didn’t return, I thought nothing of it. My dad left shortly after her and then my brother after my dad. I was sitting alone and got worried, where did they go? So, I got up and began looking for them, calling for them and calling for them. No answer. I began to panic and cry, get desperate to find them, calling and calling, tears running down my face, tripping up the stairs, I woke up…tears down my face and sobbing…I woke myself up calling them and they left the room, in the same order they died in. That dream has stuck with me. Within 5 years, all three had passed away…all in the same order. This wasn’t my first feeling or dream, I still have the dreams at times of deep importance and the feelings come more often than the dreams.
HG, I’m very interested in finding out more about my Contagion side. Thanks for your work on the knowledge you’ll be sharing with us. Xx
Gypsy: in my dreams when I see my deceased and others … there is no time, no space, just another dimension of reality. My friend who was murdered showed me over a decade in dreams, my father refuses to see me, left a note saying “go home” on a sticky note in his house… I described my dream his house his dog to my atheist mother and even sh said that is your fathers home ( deceased), he also told me to go home when I listened in to a conversation of his, I could go in… I went to a david Bowie concert post death, it was amazing. Whatever happens post “death” does not involve time or space in my humble very humble opinion. I also have a theory that “ evil” is a disconnect. It’s nothingness not attached to the Light or what is hell. I feel that the connection grows through us whether we want it to or not. HG may have hope … lol but I hate to get into my religious beliefs. The dreams can be interpreted in any way. They are “ just dreams.” But…. Some cannot b scientifically explained. At least I have not learned any. And when I find someone like you who dreams in a timeless space, it makes me curious.
I believe dreams are not scientifically explained because it is merely individual brain activity given personal interpretation by the dreamer, who in turn attaches significance based on how they perceive the dream to be relevant to them and their beliefs/ needs.
Narc Angel I always read your comments as so good! Are you contagian? I agree with your theory but in my experience too many have been specific and not based on anything I experienced like the exact time of death of my friend or the birth date of my son who was unknown to me born premature. If there were experiences or present day facts to draw on, I would agree.I am fascinated about other contagian ‘s experiences as it shows although not per google a statistical majority, I am far from alone. I have spent a life time wondering and hope this forum gives me direction. I don’t know how this specifically relates to narcs but maybe HG will provide insight. I do know that I looked at past dreams and saw signs that I should not have ignored.
Also science does not know why. They haven’t figured it out. They actually can tell some things about REM sleep. lol ke they can tell if someone is dreaming about a car though tests but not what kind of car. But no one can explain yet prophetic dreams.There is so much to learn scientifically about dreams. When unconscious we use 30% more of our brain! I search regulatory. I think I hoped HG might have answers. But I find no answers to my dreams.
Dave, I love your acceptance and thank you for sharing. Any specific thoughts about this “ underlying operating system?” Genes? Family members like you? Articles read? I was toying with the idea of memory. We store memory. Perhaps our lucid dreams dip into memories like picking up a video from the video store? I have my own theory not science based but curious. Psychopaths have identifiable differences in the brain. It is believed that there is no hope of born this way. But, I believe anything wired could be required we just aren’t there. Narcs have been studied by neurologists and I have read some scientific articles on Empaths. We are here in this section to understand contagian Empaths to understand ourselves better. Any science you wish to share on the operating system would be respected and appreciated;)
* rewired, not required
Contagious,
I agree that anything can be rewired. I have bachelor’s degrees in psychology, biology, and nursing. I used university to try to understand my childhood. To find some of the answers that had plagued me about human dynamics since childhood. Even since childhood I have felt more like an observer in life more than a participant. I observed so may different dynamics starting with home and on the playground in early childhood. I’ve always had to know and understand.
After psychology I became obsessed with human anatomy and physiology and how the human body functions on a micro level. My husband finally said “pick something, we can’t afford for you to be a professional student!!!” The human body already has the capacity to naturally rewire itself. You see this throughout human anatomy/physiology systems. In neurology after a stroke new pathways bypass and form around the damaged tissue. In cardiovascular when there is damage to the heart tissue new vascular pathways grow and form around this area. Also the heart has a natural pacemaker that causes our heart to beat in rhythm. Sometimes this pacemaker malfunctions and the heart has backup pacemakers in different areas that can take over. The human anatomy will naturally try to compensate and these backup systems, while maybe not as effective can still function. I’m now intrigued with cellular memory. Just purchased a book recently but still need to read it.
Also, glad to know that other people dream like I do.
i’m the same – i only engaged with my narcissist because i was feeling more pain when bad things happened to her that i do with other people, and thats because of a deeper bond from early childhood that was more potent than the trauma-bond, and also a bond with a healer that only lasted for the duration of the treatment and we had unexplained experiences. as you say, the whole seems pre-ordained and was revealed to me in dreams and deja-vu many times.
I would love to know how other contagions “feel” narcs? HG said we were not our first choice. I think we know. Our gut knows. But we override it. But I bet we are annoying as we ask questions … that nagging voice inside won’t go away… I know that was me. And I think they know we “ suspect” or “ know” somewhere inside and it annoys narcs even when we play along ( confused about what our ET thinks and what we know deep inside as true.) But the master will give us insight! So excited!
Contagious, I recall very distinctively getting a ‘screaming’ sensation from my guts from the same guy, twice. I was asking him about the money, ie where are the invoices to support what he was given. Two people (me, as one of them) had loaned the company. The second time I felt this ‘screaming’ sensation was when I asked him where he was going with that £50 he had just taken from a customer, the till was on the ground floor and he was going upstairs with it. Unreasonable. Suspect. He came out with something crap, he knew, that I knew WTF he was doing. Unbeknown to me, at the time, I was dealing with a mid-range narcissistic psychopath. This sensation I felt was as if there was a small animal inside me, just screaming. But, there was no physical noise.
Other occasions, I did sense something, ie unpalatable with people on TV. Like ‘ugh’. I do not hear the tone of people’s voices. Some of them are narcissists ie Jimmy Saville.
There are times when I sensed someone ie coming up behind me but I did not hear them, yet I would turn to see someone there.
Maybe there is something to do with heightened sensitivity with the fact I am Deaf.
I, too, very much look forward to HG’s empath series.
Thank you Asp. I wonder what it means when we deny what we know. We know. We know immediately. You heard the scream. It could have been a whisper but you knew. I think if contagion, and in my experience you know but sometimes dismiss that knowledge as the words or the plight puts you in a position of your natural position to help. You override that scream. I will share what happened this week as an illustration. It was 11:30 pm and a knock on the patio door. A young Mexican man stood there. He said the word neighbor. I opened the door thinking my neighbor needs help. He spoke no English. I speak some Spanish and I speak French. He asked me if my husband was home. I said no but my son was. He lounged at me. I screamed for my son and he ran. My son is a marine and called me stupid for opening the door. He was right. I made a police report. My son said other people don’t think like you. He could have had a knife or a gun. Shit, mom. He was right. I will do better. But I was not afraid. Not at the time. Not when he lounged at me and not after. He looked at me with fear. He was drunk and young. If it had been a rapist, not a drunk young opportunist, I would not have felt ok. But I knew. I knew what he was. Now … does it matter what I knew? No. Doors locked. Always. Still dumb move.
Also Asp, the fact you are deaf usually means your other senses are made stinger. 6th sense?
The brain rewires so that a visually impaired person navigates through hearing.
That’s true, HG.
This comment is a long one. It is not addressed specifically to HG or any particular person. At the outset, I’d like to say that it is for the purposes of learning and information. If it comes across as a soliloquy of some kind, I apologise.
The information below is not directly associated with the ‘contagion’ aspect of empathy. However, in relation to how a person’s central nervous system is wired and how information is processed, to my mind, there is some correlation, even though it may not be scientifically evident.
HG’s comment about the brain rewiring in a visually impaired person reminds me of some academic articles I have read recently.
My reading was for general self-knowledge and self-interest. It was not in-depth or related to any particular objective, rather it was for my own ‘truth-seeking’ and curiosity. For this reason, if there are any neuroscientists or any other kinds of ‘experts’ reading this, please know that I am not an expert and I may be excluding pertinent information. This comment is for discussion purposes and for general knowledge only.
What I found interesting in the articles I read was how the brain reacts to pain.
For the sake of clarity and distinction between different aspects of this information, I will set some aspects out in point-form:
1. Both physical and emotional pain activate similar regions of the brain. Research has found that emotional pain – from the effects of shame or social rejection for example – registers activity in the anterior insula and the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC). These brain regions are also activated when a person experiences physical pain.
2. There are two aspects of pain that can be separated and differentiated in terms of how pain is registered in the brain. These two ‘components’ of pain are:
a) sensory (or discriminative) dimension, i.e. the ‘intensity’ of the temporal characteristics of the pain.
b) affective (or motivational) dimension, i.e. the ‘unpleasantness’, which captures how ‘bad’ or ‘unpleasant’ the pain is.
The way I regard the two dimensions of pain is that a) is the ‘physical’ (internal or external) sensation of a painful occurrence, while b) is the motivational aspect which registers the scale of how unpleasant the painful occurrence is.
The motivational aspect of the ‘pain experience’ gives us an indication of the lengths to go to to avoid the painful experience.
3. The two dimensions of pain activate different regions of the brain. In short, the affective dimension of pain activates the ACC or anterior cingulate cortex.
Studies have attempted to show that the ‘unpleasantness’ of pain can be modulated by cognitive manipulation. That is, the ratings of participants regarding how ‘bad’ a painful experience is can be modified by prior coaching, for example.
This has been found to have limited effects on how a person ‘perceives’ a painful experience with regard to the ‘affective dimension’.
4. Newborns and pain from medical procedures:
I have also come across information about the way very young babies respond to pain. This is based on articles I have read about the effects of pain from medical procedures on newborns.
Newborns (and particularly pre-natal newborns) undergo numerous medical procedures that are painful. For example, heel-sticks (an injection in the heel of a newborn to draw blood for a blood test); injections; cold and noisy environments; nasal tubes; sticky tape to hold down tubes; minor surgical procedures, etc.
A newborn’s brain is *extremely* impressionable and vulnerable to all experiences and it is very malleable. It is very important to note that the brain of a baby or small child is very different to an adult’s brain. For this reason, the effects of pain on a baby or small child’s brain will have brain-altering consequences. How these consequences manifest and impact the person later in life is not entirely clear or empirically substantiated though.
The study into the effects of painful medical procedures on the brains of newborns found that pain affects the way the thalamus (a part of the brain) modulates ascending sensory information from the body to the brain. The thalamus is a part of the brain that sensory information from the body ‘travels’ through before the information is registered by the emotional and cognitive regions of the brain. (For anyone who is a scientist or who studies this area in depth, I apologise for my layman’s understanding and descriptions.)
In scientific research on how pain from medical procedures affects the brains of newborns, it was found that the thalamus was activated to become either hypersensitive (heightened sensitivity) to the pain or hyposensitive (reduced sensitivity) to the pain.
These studies are not conclusive though, because the information was not extrapolated into the later lives of the newborns and could not be substantiated to have long-lasting or consequential effects.
The way I regard pain experiences in relation to newborns and young children is that pain is pain, whether the ‘pain’ is caused by benign medical procedures or whether it is caused by other reasons. If a baby or newborn registers pain from say, an unempathic caregiver, or from neglect, or from repeated experiences of rough or harsh handling etc, the pain will have an effect on the child’s brain and how the pain is ‘modulated’.
Early life attachment:
Babies are biologically ‘wired’ or ‘programmed’ to attach to a caregiver. It is an evolutionary and physiological in-built systematic need all humans are born with and it is necessary for survival.
When a baby is born, the baby and caregiver form a unique ‘dyadic’ relationship whereby the baby and caregiver are emotionally and spatially ‘bonded’ with each other in the relationship.
In an ideal ‘dyadic’ relationship, each one responds and relates to the other in a trusting or mutually compatible way. In situations where there is not a 50/50 symbiotic relationship for example, they will modify their behaviours in ways that ensure the dyad is still in place. For example, the baby will modify it’s instinctive behaviours to remain attached to the caregiver if the caregiver is neglectful or abusive.
I think it is interesting to consider how a baby’s brain responds to say, emotional pain, when a caregiver is being neglectful or abusive – i.e. neglectful or abusive as regarded by the baby.
If a baby experiences emotional pain with the caregiver, the pain will have an affective dimension. In turn the affective dimension will activate the ACC region of the brain which is motivational.
At the same time, the baby needs to remain attached to the caregiver and the baby’s brain is impressionable. The ‘pain’ experienced will be from the point of view of the baby. What an adult perceives as ‘pain’ is not transferable to a baby.
If the baby’s genetic predisposition means that pain causes a particular gene to be expressed in a particular way – for example, the thalamus ‘emits’ pain in a ‘hypersensitive’ way instead of a ‘hyposensitive’ way, then the emotional reactivity of the baby will be affected.
All these aspects may have an effect on how a baby’s brain modifies and modulates an experience. In turn, the repetition of a similar experience will cause the brain’s wiring to solidify.
As I said, I’m not a neuroscientist and my reading is for general knowledge and understanding. I find that various aspects are all very interesting with regard to how different personalities are formed.
There doesn’t seem to be conclusive evidence that some seemingly unrelated aspects are causally related, however, to my mind, there does seem to be inter-related ‘causal’ factors that are not entirely ratified by scientific evidence.
Contagious, yes, I suppose you could call it that.
I meant “ stronger”. HG answered my question. “ yes” but specific….
Wiser : I just read an article on Apple news about PTSD being carried on to babies. Have you seen it? Look it up as your post links to that
Contagious,
I am so glad I found your comment. I feel like I am missing alot, that is not coming through on wordpress. I’m going back and forth between wordpress and email for notifications. Also I have been going back and forth between the blog and reading HG’s books. I have about 20 on one of my bookshelves, some I need to read and some I want to read again. Having a hard time keeping up. Hahaha
I am interested in your comment about PTSD being carried on to babies and I want to look into that. My adult daughter also struggles with anxiety and depression which we have conversations about. Many of our gifts to each other have the theme of stress reduction, comfort, and self soothing. This last Christmas gift theme to her was all about pampering herself soaking in the tub. Hehee
I just bought a book recently “The Embodied Mind” by Thomas R. Verny, a clinical psychiatrist. He also published “The Secret Life of the Unborn Child”. The Embodied Mind is about the mysteries of cellular memory suggesting that every cell in our body has consciousness, which takes me back to my days at university studying molecular biology and makes sense. Single celled organisms with no brains have memory. It combines physiology, genetics, and quantum physics to support that somatic cells, not just neural cells store memory. I’m also intrigued by the idea that the entire universe has consciousness as if we are one big organism or that there is a symbiosis construct. I also took a cellular biology class which was intriguing and discussed the cellular pathways in physiology. Ohhhh, so much to read.
Empty nest syndrome, giving up my nursing career, and not having anyone to care for besides myself has left me lost, but I am now rediscovering my interests that I never had time for due to responsibilities. I am also getting back into my love for classic literature and had the guilty pleasure of splurging for some first edition books of my favourite authors. 😍
Contagious-
That was such a close call! Glad you are okay!
It was a stupid mistake and as someone who started out in the DA’s office… the worst to make. Thank you for your kind words😊
Just glad you’re okay, Contagious💙
We all make stupid mistakes from time to time.
Also since I am going out in a limb. It was dark and my son who is a trained boxer and an armed marine was home and above us. So… I thought it was his friend. His friends come by a lot like this. I was calm and not afraid at all. My son says also stupid as he could have been armed. But it was very brief and oddly this guy looked afraid of me. He put his arms out wiggled his fingers, his eye lids fluttered and his eyes were weird and he seemed to run away very fast. It was weird. Needless to say a mistake I shall never make. If it were a zombie movie, I would say he was in character. Very strange person but although I fear others, I did not fear him. Maybe because my son is here…I was dumb but lucky.
Contagious, in my earlier comment, I was not denying anything as such, I just knew that guy was lying about the money as I had previously stopped communicating by email until he came from the other town to bring some papers etc, so I could ask him face to face. He reacted in a way that came across as threatening but charming if you can understand. He was avoiding answering to my questions via email, hence my stopping comms until he came in.
I think with a physically abusive narcissist parent from a young age can and does increase awareness because of the heightened state of fear, anxiety and so on. I suppose one may learn to ‘know’ before the incident happens.
As HG suggests, the brain re-wires, basically in the same way as people learn new things ie when learning maths and how to add / subtract. That is how I learned to recognise sounds of spoken words.
As for the Mexican, you were lucky not to get hurt. Some people do a quick ‘assessment’ as a natural human instinctual response by observing the body language / facial expression and hesitate before opening the door to someone they do not know. That may take place before the logical thought / message comes into the brain.
Thank you for sharing your experiences / thoughts 🙂
It was very imprudent to open the door. I’m not letting anyone, in who I haven’t invited. I’ve learned to be rude about that.
Feeling people – yes, I have it.
When I was a teenager, I was raped by an old guy. I knew this man, he was a cheerful “friend of young people”. Before that happened, I felt internal resistance, I knew he had bad intentions, although I did not suspect what. My eyes begged the people around for someone to save me from him. I was raped only, because I was raised to respect the elderly: “Children and fish have no voice.” I was only raped, because I couldn’t say NO, when I was still able to turn on my heel and walk away. When there was no one around and the world was cut off, my tears and mine NO had meaning anymore. Then, there was only the fight for the life, that I managed to save.
—————-
Last week I drove hard into the parking lot before work. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a tanned man watching me from the entrance to the parking lot to the very end where I parked. In my rearview mirror, I saw that he started in the opposite direction, but looked back several times. I thought, maybe it was the speed with which I pulled in and my attention-grabbing car. When I went to the entrance, he was standing in the distance, but he was looking at me all the time, luckily I met someone I knew. Very unpleasant feelings.
Two days ago, I missed breakfast, so after arriving at work, I went to the store. When I was returning to the company, I noticed that he was standing and watching. We have two entrances, I was considering which to enter to avoid him. I chose the side entrance, because he stood on the route to the main entrance. As soon as it was clear, that I would enter through the side entrance, he moved slowly, as if measuring steps and time for us to meet at the entrance. He stood face to face in front of me, too close, and started talking about some dripping water, total nonsense. I looked into his eyes and took a half step back. Blue, but horrible steel. He opened the door for me and followed me in, still talking. It all took 5 seconds. I went upstairs to my office, and he stayed downstairs and talked to the surveillance staff in their room, looking at the internal cameras (I saw from the office of a friend who monitors the monitoring).
I immediately started asking who he was. I only heard, that he is a new manual worker, who has recently been hired to care for green areas in front of the company. I said, that I do not like him, although of course I have no specific objections. I heard, that his is a former soldier, who had some mental problems after returning from a military mission, but his already stabilized and works well.
I do not think so. I feel exactly the same, as with the man who raped me. Pressure and pressure, the desire to isolate me and surround me.
—————–
I don’t immediately sense narcissists, who have an exquisite facade. The level of enchantment sometimes takes years, for this to happen. I can see their wrong side – and I can’t see their wrong side. Or I don’t want to see. They can put pressure on me more gently (as long as the ground is not burning under their feet) and step back. They give a respite and even more. They can “fix” their bad behavior. Make me smile again and accept them. Make me trust again, even though I don’t trust at all…
Hello Joa,
I tried responding to your comment on ‘An Exchange with a Parental Narcissist’ thread, it came up with an error message, I wrote again and the same message appeared. I’m avoiding the jinx and replying here instead!
You must have been out of your mind with worry when you felt that on your daughter’s collarbone, and then so relieved when it was an aggravated fracture. Kids are so tough. My daughter had pneumonia once without me knowing. A lingering cough that wouldn’t go away ended up being pneumonia. She was still eating well sleeping well no fever bouncing all over the place. I felt so guilty about that. They’re tough and don’t complain, so we don’t make the connection.
Thank you for your good wishes. If it happened again I’d likely be far more relaxed. The first time though, so many ‘what ifs’ just rocked my world. I’m not afraid of dying at all. I’m afraid of dying too soon though. I want to see my kids settled, in control of their own destinies before I go. That’s what bothered me most about the whole thing, it was too soon, it would damage them and I couldn’t stand the idea of that.
Reading your comment above, listen to your instincts and take precautions if you feel uneasy. I’m sure there would be people only too happy to walk you to your car if it’s late when you leave work. Listen to your instincts.
That’s a truly horrible experience to have to live through as a child Joa. I can see your child’s mind at work there. The adult influence, the training to respect elders and the not knowing how to prevent it happening. I think that kind of experience is sadly far more common than many people might imagine. The worst kind of predator.
I continue to follow and enjoy reading your comments Joa. The way you see things always resonates with me.
Keep safe.
Xx
TS, yes, I had a vision of my daughter’s suffering and death in my eyes, so I panicked, I don’t even remember the way to the emergency room in the hospital. When I heard, that it was “only” periosteum after a fracture, I was relieved. I struggled with a little remorse for not noticing it, but I analyzed the whole two weeks back and looked at our photos, each of which was beaming her happy smile, and concluded that I had not been able to notice it. Despite the pain she had to feel, she functioned as always – madness and a smile 🙂
Pneumonia in children is quite common, harmless if the child is generally healthy and with today’s level of medicine. It’s not tuberculosis. Don’t feel guilty. When I gave my daughter to a nursery, where apart from her there were about 50 other infants and about 50 children aged 1-3 years, the diseases immediately started. Every 2-3 weeks was a cold, laryngitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, inflammation of the outer, middle and inner ear (her eardrum has ruptured three times, and had to have been pierced twice), scarlet fever and others. My God, I thought I was going crazy. A week at work and she was disease again, I was afraid that they would dismiss me, even though I fulfilled all my duties at night. Even my own milk, which I extracted and gave chilled or frozen to the nursery (then it was still possible), did not protect her. Various types of oral and subcutaneous vaccines, that I was wasting a fortune. Brrr, it was a crazy time. I would not like to come back to it anymore 🙂
But now my daughter is in good health, I don’t remember how many years ago she had a cold for the last time.
You’re right, kids are tough. In fact, most children go to nursery and kindergarten, also when they are disases. The child is given something to bring the temperature down, analgesic syrup, drops in the nose, eyes and adieu. Terrible, but when you choose between keeping your job (= roof over your head + food) or another bronchitis, the choice becomes clear-cut.
So do not have TS reproaches.
Now it is a little better in our country. The woman (or man) has one year of maternity (parental) leave. I am happy and envied. A year with a child. All year only for a child. Something wonderful, beautiful and touching.
Internally, break out of despair, when I had give her, such a little one. When she looked at me with those beautiful blue beaming eyes, with such confidence, when we were so good together, and I had to stop it so suddenly and sharply and disappear for 9-11 hours and again and again and again. It’s also hard to catch signals from an infant, I had to believe that she would survive somehow, that it would be sufficiently cared for (although it was impossible for several ladies to control so many babies). This is one of the saddest things I have had to do, I can feel my heart jerking right now. But there was no choice. Actually, I never had time just for my child, except for a short 2-week holiday once a year 🙁
—————–
Waiting for biopsy results. I had the same feelings as you. I am also not afraid of death and I am calmer with each year of my life. In fact, I feel as if I have done my job and could leave; but if I do manage to survive a few more things, I won’t complain 🙂
And just like you, I would like to live to the moment, when my daughter will be completely independent. By the end of next year, she will be 18 and will be officially grown up. I think, she mentally would already cope, if something happened to me, but she would not have that place to come back to when something goes wrong, when she falls on her knees, so I’d rather stay here a little longer 🙂 It would also be great to be able to observe her life from afar! 🙂 And… if I would find a moment just for myself in some time, it would be the peak of my dreams 🙂
Back then, my daughter was younger, and although the instructions in the event of my death were always established and written down (+ appropriate documents so that she would not end up with a father who was strange to her), it would have been a big trauma for her. But I had the inner belief, that everything was going to be fine and there was a lot of work to do at that time, so those thoughts were just in the back of my head. Anyway, I wouldn’t give up without a fight, only… thinking about another portion of my duties related to cancer made me feel sick.
I treat every disease, that appears the same – these are the next annoying duties, ha ha ha 🙂 You can’t give up, act like a disabled person, burden people around with taking care of you (if you really don’t have to!). I always say to my daughter, that as long as my brain is functional and I can cope physical with my life, she shouldn’t worry about me. And when I cannot be independent, I wish that she would send me to the center and not support my life artificially and senselessly (unnecessary expenses and burden). She is to live her life without unnecessary ballast! And for me, a life dependent on someone’s grace, without the possibility of making my own decisions, would be a torment that should be shortened as soon as possible – I am not saying that anymore, because she does not need to know it, but I think so.
TS, I don’t remember what age your children are, but probably also teenagers between 12-16? It’s great to have siblings! I feel sorry for my daughter as an only child. Heh, when I did not want a child, I “got it”, and when I was in “maternal high” and I wanted a second one, there was no chance for it. On the other hand, a child from another father was unthinkable for me, even when it became clear, that we would no longer be together with N2. I would never let that happen, for various reasons, which were prevailing like: 5 kilograms to 50 grams of weight.
—————–
“A psychic gardener”, waiting outside the entrance to work. Relax. I watch him, but I don’t think he will be a problem anymore.
1. Due to the fact, that for 90% he found out that I watched him through video surveillance and he was a “topic” at the top of the building (as some employees are thoughtless), I decided that the concept of being invisible would not work anymore. This week I treated him, as I call it, with the eyes of a Basilisk (Basilisk is a dragon, from a old Polish fairy tale for children. Basilisk aroused terror and fear, started fires, wreaked destruction, ate animals and people. Nobody could defeat him, until the moment when a mirror was placed in front of him and he became petrified under the influence of his own destructive gaze). So I looked him straight in the eyes, long contact, my eyes cool and unmoving, as if he were transparent, as if I could not see him, although I do. He first one turned.
This look has saved my skin many times 🙂
2. Probably he found out who I was from the monitoring staff, which should also be a protective shield. I do not follow the rules of business dress code, I have these nonsensical orders “in deep respect” 🙂 If I want to dress elegantly, I do it. If I want to show my legs, I do it. If I want to go in jeans and a t-shirt, I do it. I do not pay attention to such details as clothes, it is a pity to waste time on it. And every day I come to work with wet hair, unless it’s summer, then they will dry on the way, ha ha ha 🙂 I don’t know how people put up with me, but somehow they manage, even though I’m so insubordinated 🙂
In any case, my usual appearance can be deceiving at times.
Digression: Honestly, I like it a lot. Especially when I’m supposed to get in touch with new people. I like it when, due to very modest or loose clothes, they initially ignore me, do not notice me and treat me “lower”. I love the moment, when we get to the point, where they change their minds and have to treat me equally. This element… of surprise, acceptance, relaxation and rapprochement. As if at that moment, when I feel that I can and want, I suddenly turn on the megaphone: “Now!!! Look at me!”. Damn chameleon, ha ha ha 🙂
I also like, when people de-stress, spit out that stiff stick, when I “splash” with a joke. It helps me too 🙂
Sorry, my ability to drift off and digress is terrifying…
—————–
Yes, I agree, it’s more common than many people admit into their consciousness. Much more common.
—————–
I also enjoy reading your comments TS, and a lot of people here. Very sad was the description of your canine friend being put to sleep (it’s good, that you went out and didn’t pass on your nervous emotions to him!). And it was wonderfully beautiful to read your feelings and thoughts. I was smiling, at the vision of your meeting for him at there sometime 🙂 I too, idealize reality in the moments of the greatest pain in the same way. I cover the truth with a translucent screen and do not step outside the screen until I decide I must.
One of my dogs is 17-18 years old and has lost a lot of strength. The heat exacerbates these symptoms, and it’s only spring. This moment will come soon. I hope she dies quietly in her sleep, and I will sense it or hear it and calmly stroke her… I’ve been through this before. The worst part is the shock, when you discover a dog dead. And the second worst – when you need to dig a hole, wrap in dog in favorite blanket and cover it with soil. I do not send my animals to lie in a cold store in a sack and to be burned. All our family pets are buried close to each other. Grass and flowers grow on them. My sister spends a lot of time there, she badly needs it. I need it less.
This is my beloved dog. The most beloved of the most beloved. I will miss her faithful eyes. Behind her scent. Behind her “talking”. Behind… I’m done, because I feel humid 🙂 I’m glad that she spent the second half of her life with me, that she trusted and felt at peace.
I also struggled with remorse in relation to the two animals. The acusation of not looking after my rat’s safety and not noticing the rupture of its incisors. And the accusation of suffocating a sparrow chick (I fed him with a pipette with yolk and I think I “stuffed” him, he died in my hand with his eyes bulging…).
—————–
Thank you, I stick always. Eternal sinusoid – from slight depression to strong euphoria 🙂 Fortunately, the periods of the latter and the states “in between” are much longer than the drops.
This morning, while joking with my daughter, that she was a “fucking sweet addict” (she forced sugar into her tea), as we both doubled over laughing, I smashed my favorite sugar bowl. I love glass. Vases, decorative bottles, glass containers, platters, jardinieres, fruit bowls, chocolate boxes, plates, cups, fancy carvings, everything! Glass – preferably colored, but only slightly tinted, translucent. I have my favorite glass works, especially one. I can’t afford much and I don’t have so much space at home, but I love to look at it, touch it, admire it. Glass is wonderful (porcelain is boring), smooth, shiny, with a thousand light reflections in lines, protrusions, grooves or “errors”, hard and strong, and brittle at the same time.
If I didn’t do what I do, I would probably become a steelworker 🙂 It’s a pity it’s so hot 🙂
Fortunately, I have a second, same sugar bowl, because when I bought them about 10 years ago, I knew that I would feel this loss. This is the most beautiful glass in my home. Aaaah, I could not regret my money and buy three!
I just wanted to write, that was a duality: a damn hit me, although I was still laughing! 🙂
I send hugs and greet you very much
Joa
Joa,
Thank you for your lovely message. I enjoyed reading it very much x.
My heart went out to you when you described how hard you have worked to put a roof over your daughter’s head and food on the table. Things that must be done. Necessities that must be taken care of. For the time that you lost, being at work when you wanted to be at home with her, this time has also demonstrated what a woman can do alone. Stand on her own two feet, provide, care for herself and her child, rely on herself. This might not be the way that you would have chosen to teach this to your daughter but it has been taught and she will be stronger for it.
Guilt. Many of us experience it and most often with regards to our children and those we love most. If your child’s father had taken responsibility, had supported your daughter even just financially, this would have allowed you more time together. I’ll say the same to you as you said to me, don’t feel guilty. If anyone should feel guilt, it’s the narcissist. He doesn’t, he won’t, but please try not to carry that burden for him. That is his burden, not yours to carry. Xx
Your daughter sounds strong, both physically and mentally. My daughter was always messy as a toddler. I used to say that if I could just get her to where we were going, clean, then I was happy. Haha! If there was a puddle to be stepped in, a drink to be spilled, mess to be found, she found it haha! Similarly, now, she just never gets sick. I think it’s down to the dirt haha!
My daughter is 14, my son 15, they are 13 months apart. We call that ‘Irish Twins’. Argue? My god it’s like a war zone. My son has only grown taller and stronger in the last 6 months. Now, the physical fighting has stopped. It stopped automatically, an unspoken realisation that the physical advantage must never be used. Now, they appreciate each other and there is peace, usually, no physical fights at least. They fought like cat and dog, but, let an outsider come near and the other would appear out of no where and the two were united. I have never understood the sibling rivalry. Both wished they were only children like me, now that has changed, they run into each other socially, each with a different group of friends, but now they acknowledge and chat to each other. Finally! It only took 14 years!
I can understand the timing wasn’t right for you to have a second child. It’s sad in a way, but it likely also ensured the tight bond between you and your daughter. I can tell you are close. I’m sure you argue too haha, but you’re close.
We are aligned in our view on the quality of life, death and the way we want it handled. Funnily enough my son mentioned this to me a week or so ago. He worried that I would feel lonely when I’m older and he has his own family. He said he would never see me put in a home with old people, that he would instead bring me to live with him. I told him that I wasn’t going to cook or do his washing haha! I said I was looking forward to being mad and wearing purple. He should leave me to it and not spoil my fun. I got him laughing and told him not to worry about things he can’t predict. I was touched by the sentiment of it though.
You made me laugh with your eyes of a Basilisk. I had never heard that name before but that emotionless look is one that I have deployed against my mum many times. The drawing in of emotion and the refusal to give anything of myself. It is a looking through or a looking past someone. It’s funny how instinctively we know what is being sought from us without being consciously aware of why. Now I have a name for it!
18 years for your dog is incredible. That dog is hanging in there! I would wish the same, for them to die in their sleep. There is still the shock, the loss, but I think we all would wish to go calmly in that way (wearing purple). Yes, same here, my dogs were laid to rest in my garden. Sadly we moved so they aren’t with me now, but I couldn’t cremate them either, I wanted them home.
I saw your note on another thread about you being grateful for the fact that at least some world leaders were supporting Ukraine against Putin. I agree. Boris is a narcissist and is motivated only by what is best for him, but, in the case of Ukraine, I fully endorse his actions. His narcissism is very evolved. He does appear to take the option of ‘protect’ or ‘do the right thing’ on the real big impactful decisions such as Covid or Putin. Then, he totally lets himself down with his lies and self entitlement over things like Partygate. To those who know about narcissism, it’s here he shows his narcissist colours. He has just had a massive fuel injection through beating the no confidence vote. He looks fizzing, you can almost see the fuel running through him just now. As far as Ukraine goes though, I think he has made the right moves. The world is unstable right now, I’d prefer a greater narcissist as prime minister than any other school of narcissist. My view is that almost all politicians are corrupt. I’ll take corrupt with intelligence and a network.
I really do appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts with me. I know the translation takes a log of time but your depth of meaning always shines through.
You look after yourself missus!
Xx
Joa
I read your comments with much compassion about what you went through as a teenager. I feel anger that you and many children were raised to respect the wishes of elderly like that. Boundaries not allowed. I truly understand that you very much try to avoid circumstances which have any risk of making you surrounded or isolated.
This should be interesting. I wonder what HG will have to say in terms of more details about people such as myself who have this contagion element. On that note, I have completed the Empath Detector and it has been confirmed that I am a Contagion Empath. I feel others emotions regularly and I find it draining at times to be around people for extended periods of time. I feel as though I need to hide away somewhere to decompress. I have noticed this contagion element even more now since I have switched from working night shifts for many years to straight days given departmental changes in the hospital where I work. I have to interact with many more people on the day shift and it is busier. I can handle it and I am very knowledgeable which isn’t the issue, but by the time the day is done, I am exhausted emotionally and physically drained.
Hi December Infinity, it is nice to see you. Your comment made me realize, I have come to feel my own emotions very intensely but those of others, though I do empathize with them, I do not feel them in the same way as you described. I also am drained by too much time around people but it must be for different reasons. Thank you for sharing, that was an eye-opener regarding a possible difference in schools.
Hi A Victor, I am probably going to hell for mentioning my contagion aspect which I thought would be okay here but then I realized that one isn’t supposed to mention that outside of consultation privacy (sorry HG!! – off to the dungeon I go!!). I always wondered why I would feel the emotions of others and I cannot turn it off and it genuinely affects me. I would also always hear the saying ‘you are too sensitive’ which can mean different things depending on the context, but in terms of feeling the emotions of others it is quite apt. You are lucky you don’t feel the emotions the way I do.
December Infinity, I have realized that I am lucky not to feel them as you Contagions do, I think it would be overwhelming! You are doing so well, I read on another comment that you are two years NC!! That is fantastic! And also, you are so right, they are still narcs, we are different! It’s so exciting! Thank you for sharing!
You are welcome A Victor! We are different!
I don’t think HG minds if we share cadres. Is it cadres? Seems Super Empaths share lol! Why not us?
Wow! Just read that only 1% of people report lucid dreams every week. Not sure where google gets it’s it’s research. Said half people have a lucid dream in a lifetime. My gut says contagion empaths are in this group. We are on to something….there is a different wiring then narcs and my guess is a gene. Narcs are gene plus unstable childhood. What creates a contagion empath?
Hi, DI,
I know what you mean about feeling emotionally exhausted and physically drained. I experienced this in my career, especially when I was a nurse in the Trauma ICU. I have so much respect for the nurses and hospital staff that are able to work these units. I became : burnt out”, and just couldn’t do it anymore. I became extremely bonded to my patients and their families. It had an extreme emotional impact on me. At one point my nurse manager pulled me into her office and expressed her concern for my emotional wellbeing. She stated that she thought it would be best if I worked in an area where I could see more of my patients recovering and going home. We settled on the specialty of cardiovascular surgery where I could use my intelligence and advanced training and certifications. We had three ICU’s in our hospital and I was still able to float to these units when they were understaffed.
You are right about how nights seem to be less chaotic. I experienced the difference between day and nightshift in the Trauma ICU. On nights I felt like I had more time to dedicate to the families of my trauma patients. One particular instance a lovely gentleman had decided it was time to take his wife off life support. She was the only patient I had that night. The respiratory therapist and I had to take her down for one final MRI, and we almost lost her multiple times in the elevator and in radiology. I couldn’t even reposition her without her vital signs dropping dramatically. I was able to completely devote my time to her and her husband. He was completely alone that night and after she had passed I spent the rest of my shift listening to him recall stories about her and share pictures of how beautiful she was before she had succumbed to the astrocytoma that had wrapped around her brainstem.
I resonate with your comment 100% I can sit in Starbucks drinking a cup of tea, for example 12 people in there including the staff.
Then boom I can feel all this energy coming at me from nowhere, the emotions and feelings of others in Starbucks in my head. Sometimes it’s anxiety, fear I’m sensing from these people.
Sometimes it’s nice and joyous, but it comes out of nowhere but both experiences come out of nowhere particularly around people. Moreover, I get it from the weather to, good or bad weather.
I also get it from animals on a massive scale, I also get it from the plants, grass in the garden, the flowers, the trees, the wind etc.
I get it from narcs to, I can feel their fear and anxiety rising up in my stomach and going up my chest to my head when they are near me. I know it ain’t from me this fear cos I ain’t afraid at that juncture.
Around other narcs I feel polluted, like sewerage is flowing through my body and mind, as well as over my face externally like some kind of giant parasitic leech spiritualy has slowly just crawled over my face, horrible it is.
Around other people normals and narcs I get drained and I have to get away to my home, not nature unless it’s the beach cos around tree’s I get negative energy off them coming at me.
Thank you for your share. Hope you can resonate with my experience. Bless u. Saint Anger.
I can usually read children (especially pre-verbal) and animals, but I often have tremendous difficulty reading adults. Their facial expressions don’t match their voices, or their gestures don’t match their words. It’s like having the radio on to the left, the TV on to the right, somebody tapdancing in front, and somebody playing the bagpipes in back. I’m not sure which message is the “real” one or which one I have to pretend to believe to avoid trouble. Frankly, I’d rather avoid the whole thing and go pet a puppy.
This is less likely to happen when doing theatre, because we’re all show-offs who’ve made the decision that we have be able to work with others, or no one will cast us and we won’t get to show off anymore. Nobody pretends to be modest.
So looking forward to this! I’m pretty certain one of my grandmother’s was a contagion. During dinner over the weekend, my aunt (also a contender for contagion but has an LD which makes it more difficult to observe the extent) was reminding us how she (my aunt), my grandmother and great grandmother would only need to see a person or even an animal being sick and they would instantly follow. She was telling us of a time when the three of them were together and their dog vomited, which prompted all three of them to be sick. I mean it sounds hilarious but must be extremely emotionally exhausting for them.
My grandmother, without exception was the kindest and most loving person I could have had involved in my life. It was clear she was in anguish when others experienced physical or emotional pain and she would have readily taken that on herself for them not to experience it. In fact, I’m certain it would have been far less painful for her to have experienced it directly as opposed to witnessing/ being aware of someone else experience it.
This is me to. If I see an animal suffering in an advert on you tube and look at it to long.
Boom I go into a meltdown and start crying and sobbing like a little boy cos i can feel the animals sadness and loneliness in my head.
I thought for years it was just me, but it ain’t it’s the contagion at high level.
I don’t mean movies where there’s music, tone, acting etc that can bring the tears on. But real live documentaries with no music, tone, acting etc.
Same with little children in pain I will burst out in tears also etc.
However, once the sobbing has stopped i will go into an emotional rage and I want to beat the shit out of those people causing the innocent animals and children pain. Obviously I don’t attack people, just how I feel.
Also I get the crying, sobbing and rage and anger at the same time to. Ambivalence.
Hope you resonate with this. Bless you.
Saint Anger.
Does it work in reverse? I have found that seeing a movie such as a movie where the little guy beats the system empowers me. Sometimes when feeling low I need to read a book or watch an empowering movie as it inflames me. But like you, I am ashamed but I can’t watch shows on animal cruelty or even visit shelters as I want to donate a lot or rescue everyone. I just break. I look at one dog in a shelter and break. Thank God there are those who have the ability to do it. It’s like the military. I could not. But I am grateful!
Hello sister. I trust your well?
My apologies for the late reply.
Yes that’s a huge justice trait in you in feeling empowered when the good guys bring justice, all normal and healthy.
All empath types have the contagion in them to absorb the emotions of others.
But us contagion empaths have it at higher levels, some contagion empaths have it at higher levels than other other contagion empaths. Blessings.
Not all empaths have the contagion element and you are not a contagion empath.
HG,
I do have Contagion in me and I noticed it being triggered in me yesterday. I went out with my best friend and her daughter with ADHD. I noticed as her daughter’s hyperactivity changed to anxiety, I felt the change and I felt her anxiety and it made me feel like I had to get out of the building and stand in the quiet for a bit. My heart was racing and I felt like screaming out the cluster of energy I got from her. It happens to me whenever someone I’m close to is experiencing high emotions, whether it be grief, fear, anxiety etc I experience it like it’s my own feeling and whenever I try to explain it, some people start calling me a witch, magical, seer or crazy. I’ve been told I’m a natural witch. I don’t know how to react to that, but when it happens it’s sometimes disturbing to me because of what people say about it. I would like to know, in your opinion, how I developed this ability and why? I have other family members who have this ability too. I’m looking forward to learning more about it.
Rebecca, I understand what you say. I didn’t know I had a significant contagion element but sometimes I got feelings out of nowhere that had nothing to do with my personal situation. I would be feeling great and then start having anxiety or felt very mad for no reason. I am very happy it came out in my ED because now at least I know those feelings sometimes do not belong to me. The other day my husband was frustrated about work while I was feeling calm. I started feeling overwhelmed and I recognized what was going on. I talked to him and tried to listen to his problems and support him, but after a while I told him I needed to go for a run because his frustration was invading me. He totally understood. Thankfully he is an Empath too so he doesn’t look at me like I’m a weirdo when I say these things.
Ready!
One last thing and it’s about HG who I have consulted a few times. My sense is he has a pure knowledge of narcs and psychotics and dark or heavy beings. I have consulted and watched and read others in his field. While at least one I know is intellectually knowledgeable, I just think most don’t truly grasp or get it. It’s a soul knowledge almost with HG. He is the real deal in this regard in my perception and feeling. No offense but when I have spoke to him, it’s an uncomfortable depth for lack of a better word but a true one. He is what he says and is the most knowledgeable person I have met. Conscious and unconscious veracity. And in this feeling of solidity… he won’t change. So I guess lucky us !
Oh wow Contagious! I have a friend who listened to a few videos but had to stop because of “HG’s darkness on a soul level” , she felt it affecting her soul and couldn’t handle it. She is a trained therapist, works with children and teens, so it really surprised me, but now maybe it makes sense. Thank you so much and also PAWA, for sharing your experiences. Very interesting. I see similarities, I have very vivid dreams also, but I am always me in them, for example. Very interesting to read both your experiences and really excited to read HG’s work regarding empaths.
Yes I get that from hg to I sense absolute pure evil coming out of hg when I hear his voice in his u tube videos.
No disrespect to u hg, I’m just being honest. I ain’t afraid of his voice of him, I either get very sad, down when he talks. Or I get extremely angry.
Bless u.
Saint Anger.
HG is an ordinary flesh and blood man.
No darkness, no whirling petals or a person with special powers.
It is nice and mysterious here, there is scope for vivid imagination. But let’s not forget, that HG is a human being – with all its advantages and disabilities (oops!) 🙂
The main thing is that you can learn something about yourself.
There’s nothing ordinary about me.
Of course, intelligent, with many talents and arousing curiosity, I managed to notice 🙂
I wanted to take off the magic cloak, that sometimes shows up here.
Joa: HG is a man. Yes. But no man is the same. HG has created a blog that I personally find revealing on an intimate and global level. I think he will ultimately change psychology on cluster B and be read in the books at school. I admire him and enjoy him. I learn from him and cannot escape his knowledge or lessons. But I always delve deeper with people and describe my inner personal experiences or instinct here and only here. Nowhere else. I stand by my feeling of COLD logic and a feeling of coldness. That’s all I can say. He is respectful to all. That gives a feeling of warmth but not what I experience inside him when consulting. This is not an intended slight. It’s like a weather person stating the weather. When I talked to him in Southern California, it made me appreciative but my body felt cold. It was not this person is cold. Not at all. He was respectful, insightful and may I say it “ kind.” But my insight, my perception, my feeling … chill. An observation.
Contagious, yes, HG is something different to everyone here.
There is a lot of scope for the imagination.
Cold hard logic. It’s cold. In my dreams, the Truth that came with a prophetic message was freezing cold. I get shivers sometimes from a feeling of truth. HG will hate this but I wonder if he is gifted with Truth. Gifted.
Contagious,
I think the thing with truth is, if it is entirely unfettered then it becomes narcissistic in nature and not empathic.
In the case of narcissism, HG has no issue delivering cold hard logic, no issue telling us the truth about our own ensnarements. He has no empathy and feels no need to ‘soften the blow’ as an empathic person might.
In this context, it works perfectly. For the empath, I don’t believe it is possible for us to deliver the full truth 100% of the time, particularly in personal / face to face interactions The truth can be hurtful, our empathy catches this fact and causes us to soften the full truth. We are protecting the listener from pain because we understand that often, truth hurts. Push too hard with the truth and you risk losing the communication, the listener backs off, removing any gradual benefit from a drip drip approach, they might otherwise have had.
“Does my bum look big in this?”
“Yes, You look fat in that. Take it off. Burn it.”
Or
“Does my bum look big in this?”
“I’ve seen you look nicer. That outfit isn’t all that flattering on you.”
I don’t advocate lying, I just think cold hard logic is tough for the empath to deliver. Our empathy for the feelings of the listener prevents full disclosure.
Maybe it’s just me. Xx
Contagion, it is interesting. For me his logic is reassuring, not cold, it makes sense of the world for me. I want to think this way for myself also, because it makes me feel safe and in control, but until I have the skill to use it routinely, I am so thankful I can put things out there for HG to give me the logic on, I learn from this and it settles me to understand things.
Ok I will be truly vulnerable. My whole life I have had “ these dreams.” Very young they were religious. As I aged they changed. They differ. Some are lucid, 5 senses, like living in a real movie. They take me places time and again to places I have never been. Conversations with people I have never met. Yes, I have talked to my loved ones who showed me another place in their dreams. I have had dreams that predicted things like my sons premature birth by date. My best friend in law schools time of death and the motive that I only learned from family in the third trial. Recently I had dreams of specific friends who needed me to find out a mother or boyfriend had died. This week I had an unusual dream about a mean girl and she was brunette iRobot the next day to encounter a brunette woman who confronted me unusually at the dog park. I have written two books on dreams. To be published soon. I am not a writer. These stories were just dreams I felt to write. I have one more. Just 3. Many of my Best ideas for my legal cases come in dreams. I am just stumped. I have asked everyone: priests, atheists, dream “ specialists” , “ psychics” I have never have really not had psychic experiences outside of dreams. I read empathy dream different. I read many artists get ideas in dreams. I am an attorney but also artistic. Paul McCartney had a dream about his mother coming to him saying “ let it be” and wrote a song. Many artists get their art from dreams.HG found me to be a contagion. This “ contagious” moniker. Perhaps a bad choice with Covid. Lol. I know how people feel or what’s up. People and animals come to me. I have that vibe and I don’t mind but I need to isolate with nature to recharge. But I have never had a scientific or any explanation for my dreams. Ok. Big exposure. Going out on a limb. I feel that there is a connection beyond this Earth. Beyond what we know. There was a atheist neurologist who wrote a book who was “ brain dead” yet he woke up and recalled being in murk until he heard music, saw light and he said there was no was in his neurological experience this made sense. His brain was dead. As a contagion with narcs. I think we feel them. There is a void. We hear the voice. But something is off. But as empathy we want to help. We think we can fix it. I don’t think a fix exists. This is where as a contagion I am perplexed. Why the dreams. Why the help. Why the connection. Yet no insight to fix a neurological condition that is wired. Why can’t it be un-wired. I know sounds amateurish. But I feel fundamentally that there is an answer. I just don’t know it. I don’t even understand myself entirely as I can’t stop the dreams. I went to a dream seminar and there were lots of people there. I knew I was different when no one dreamed like me at all. One person had a lucid dream. Hello contagions? Please please join me and give me your experiences and how you handle a soul that includes a grown man and broken child inside one person … what I feel inside me as a narc.
Since I am going way out in a limb and you will probably find me false or strange and I don’t want to give my creds to show I have lived a stable normal middle class life… I have had odd experiences with nature… one example… once … I used to feed ducks and there is no pond by us, I live by the ocean but when it rains heavy the sea bluffs create lakes with bluffs come and they used to arrive daily in the morning… ok no shock they were there as I fed them. But one day hundreds if crows surrounded them on trees. Ok no shock as competitors? But… the ducks went so I fed the fries and it was nothing like I saw before. I wish I had videotaped the whole thing. They did a dance. One swooped, hovered, the next went. So on. They singularly fed what I threw and the rest stayed. Anyway I probably just don’t know crows and their behavior. I asked a crow rescue group and she said I saw the crow dance. ??? Again…this is one example. Nature is relevant to contagions. But HG? Narcs? You write poetically at times if walking in a snowy Forrest. Narcs seem to love nature too. ? I don’t expect this to be published. But if it is… but I feel contagions have a close connection to nature. And how we react to narcs is somehow connected to that? It’s a recognition of a feral being.
Crows not fries * Got to love spell check.
I hear you 🙂 Everything comes to me in dreams. It is comforting to know there are others out there. I am also creative… it would be interesting if your spiritual dreams reflect my own 🙂
The dreams I have are set apart from normal dreams in that they are vivid and I am am very aware that I am dreaming.
In a good percentage of them I am rarely me. I walk in the shoes of another and this could be a man, women, or child from any background. I experience their thoughts and actions. I am also aware of my own thoughts running parallel to theirs and usually need to pay close attention to identifying markers so that I may know to whom they may pertain.
I also jump between people in the dream.
The problem I have is; people rarely envision themselves whilst I am in their head and their own perception of themselves may not be how I perceive them. If I have visited their home and the dream happens there, then this makes things easier. Unfortunately this is rarely the case.
They may be in a place and with people I do not recognise and the chances of them looking in a mirror or of me catching a glimpse of them in a window are slim. To make things even more complicated – I may be seeing glimpses of their childhood or future selves.
Then there are the times I walk in the footsteps of people I have never met, or will ever meet.
One about Boris – Before the election..
‘One leader deemed to have betrayed them replaced by another, will themselves be betrayed by the allie who put them there.
Food not fit for them, will be fed to the donkeys braying outside.
It will not kill them in the short term.
An apple will be turned down for the promise of a more substantial meal later.
This meal will never materialize.
The ally who is considered a friend will take what they can from the meager coffers and ride away to safety.
Dogs will be be sent and will snap at their heels’
I too have written a book about the dreams – not in my name and only published as evidence of them coming to pass – that they were dreamed before it happened. COVID – the war etc.
Sleep paralysis is annoying – but is it just my mind working things out?
Hi Contagious and PaWA,
I am really glad I found your comments about how you experience your feelings and dreams. I experience my feelings and dreams this way too. Many times in my dreams I am someone else and I am with people I do not know but seem to know in the dreams. I remember dreams from many different time periods including some of those dreams from my chdhood. I will often repeat dreams occasionally, or sometimes repetitively, even some from my childhood.
Sometimes being around other people especially if there are a lot of intense feelings and drama going on I feel I need to isolate. I am currently doing that now. It is almost like with a baby whose neurogical system is developing or a stroke patient whose neurological system is damaged and they become overstimulated and need to withdraw from this stimulation.
I have always noticed that my memory works differently then most people around me and my daughters memory works the same way. Her dad always made fun of us about that.
I have also had dreams about things before they happen and my daughter seems to do this too.
Even things that my daughter would state seem to come true. Friends, family….we all were amazed when at one point she wanted a chihuahua and I explained to her that they weren’t the best breed for children because I know they are snappy. At that time she was in early gradeschool She lived, breathed and dreamt chihuahuas and wrote stories to turn into school. Amazingly enough a completely hairless, mange covered chihuahua puppy showed up on our porch the night of a snow blizzard and we adopted it.
Alright big coincidence, right? She did it again very shortly after that. She had a sticker of a longhaired chihuahua on her nintendo 3DS that she named Taco. Guess what we ended up with one that looked exactly like the sticker. We also adopted this one when we couldn’t find an owner.
But then years later when we had moved to the country she decided she wanted a Husky. One gets dumped in our neighborhood. The area we lived in was a popular dumping spot for large breed dogs approximately a year old. The neighbors told us it was our turn to adopt and the Husky became part of our family.
Idk, maybe this could all be coincidental, but it is certainly odd (like me),
Gypsy
Psychology and world affair, easier name? Lol I am fascinated by your reply. We are alike. It’s like being another comfortable world that you know as real as the world you live in. I wonder if “prophets” were just contagions with dreams. Your dream about Boris sounds like a prophecy or a message to you. It sounds like me that it’s a full 5 sense alternative but when you awaken you realize it was just a dream but you have questions. Especially: what just happened? Who was that? What does this mean? Like two nights ago, after my trial, I got an unexpected dream of going to my neighbors deceased friends party. It’s like a movie. I am there. Not pretending to be there and not like you in other person. I hardly know him, he died at 81 a few years ago, and there was a dark hair women in the back room of the party. I entered and sat down. I looked at her and her at me. . . But her eyes were like looking at stars at night and she took my hand and told me I was a “ closed window.” Whatever that means. I woke up concerned about Barb my neighbor as her deceased friend asked me to help Barb at the party. Do some cleaning or cooking. I called her and she was ok . I discovered that she was recovering from hip surgery last week. None of this makes sense. Never does. But you are the very first contagion with dreams like me. The first. There is something there. I did not write two books on dreams. I dreamed three books and wrote two. The details are so detailed it was there. I just put in on paper. One is a legal thriller called Harmless Error. One is a childrens book called Sparkles Saves Christmas (a dream Christmas Eve) and the other is complicated as it was a dream within a dream where I fall asleep and my dream is in a mythology I had to research. Never read anything about this particular mythology. At least that I can recall… yet every pic was a pic from my dream. I would need to go back to my journal to even remember it now. I don’t. HG said he does not dream. So… this is a tip. Perhaps Narcs don’t ( or some) and Empaths do. I think contagions do. I bet we will find more like us. I have a no scientific theory. But I have read empaths in general dream different. I have read contagions also mimic others emotions why we get sick if they do. In my case, I don’t. But I can feel what they are feeling and it compels me. It’s why people comment how the dogs in a park run to me. Etc… I think they sense. But as to narcs, like anyone you know it’s off. My instinct is to heal. Foolish. Or if I meet someone really dark, you feel a forever hole, like air going on forever through someone or a foreboding feel like entering a dark alley. I had a case involving a Mexican mob backed construction company and the FBI had raided their offices and made arrests. My case was civil. My client was due money. But the criminal attorney was also the civil attorney. Rich. Built like an athelite. The way he stared at me in depositions… I found it uncomfortable to look at his goat eyes. I wanted to take a shower everyday the deposition ended. I stood up to him as he was finding my clients ex retired employees on vacation and threatening him. I reported his conduct to the court and sought injunctions. He called me and whispered that I should not have done that. That night I woke up to modelo beers and cigarettes in my kitchen and a dead rat in my carport. Someone had been in my locked house. We settled the case. I hope I never see him ever again. No contact can be a payer at times. Lol That was years ago. My dreams have given me warning. My ex husband would appear at times in my dreams as a thief and had a snake ummm as his anatomy. He was diagnosed as antisocial. Wonder if your dreams help spot narcs? My ET has not stopped me at times but I tend to remove myself. You?
I would love to know there was an explanation for these dreams I have had since a child. It seems to me to be more than a creative mind. I think so anyway.
Hi Contagious,
Pawa – is fine 🙂 I apologise for the late reply – I do not get notified for some reason.
Wow yes I fully get what you are saying.
My dreams have not helped me with regards to narc’s. Most have crossed a line before any serious attachment was formed. All except one and he did enough damage to me to last several lifetimes. I actually think my dreams about the abuse he went through helped him – rather than me.
I also have had thoughts that the prophets were people like us. It would make sense. My mom and Aunt are also Contagion. My mom is not as strong – but my Aunt also experiences this to a degree.
Hearing others accounts is very comforting – maybe I am not as crazy as I think.
Do you ever see auras around people? I do sometimes (not all the time and I cannot always do it as a matter of course). I remember once a guy who lived close coming to threaten us and seeing a black aura around him. Normally I say nothing – but I had never seen such a blackness around somebody before. He said it showed I should be scared of him. His response – (he did not get what I was trying to say) – made me just stare at him mouth open. He died 2 weeks later – he committed suicide.
I also wonder if Sleep paralysis is what causes people to report astral projection/out of body experiences?
I think I am up – maybe walking down the hallway – or even leaving the house. Than I realise I am still flat on my back in bed. I make a concentrated effort to move = wiggle my fingers. I think I am up – haha no – I get so far and have to come back to my body and try again. This might happen several times. My Aunt also gets this – but for her it is scary with things trying to get her. I was thankfully able to help her move past this – so for her like me – it is just bloody annoying.
I get the animal thing too. I have a dog. When he takes a random dislike to people – is it him feeling my response to their energy? Or does he also pick up on their energy and emotions?
For cuteness = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZxTNGW6dUc&ab_channel=ClaireAbbott
I have so many questions…
Gypsy,
That’s interesting about the transparent paper. I could describe the couple of times that I have seen things in a very similar way. I can see the real life scene, but an additional image gets laid over the top.
The feeling you describe where your life flashes before your eyes but all at once, is similar to the rapid rate of information that came in when I was painting. In some ways you could link that to brain filing. When you are just falling asleep or just waking up the barrier between the conscious and subconscious mind is at its thinnest. Similarly meditation practitioners or those who can self hypnotise into a trance like state claim to access the subconscious. Dreams are often said to be a result of the filing that takes place in the subconscious mind at the end of the day. It’s possible that occasionally we are accessing our subconscious mind but for a very brief period of time.
Deja vu is said to work similarly. The accessing of information that the subconscious mind noticed but that the conscious mind missed. Put them together and it feels as though you have seen the scene before. Very brief temporal lobe seizures are thought to be responsible for deja vu.
People can also have focal seizures where they can appear to drift off into a kind of daydream state, awake yet asleep. Some wake up and feel that they have lost time. More severe seizures are obviously linked to epilepsy.
I could buy in to explanations similar to those listed above. Similarly patterns and the prophetic nature of dreams. It’s very possible that some people subconsciously notice patterns taking place in events around them and are actually drawing logical conclusions from those patterns. The finding of patterns and the link to autism would make sense because the way the autistic brain filters information is different to the non autistic brain. It’s far broader. Far much more information is taken in by the autistic conscious mind and needs to be sorted. Various things point to information sorting and the communication between the conscious and subconscious mind.
Aside from the more scientific explanations I think Contagion very much depends on the person experiencing it, their faith, belief systems and overall essence in terms of how the experience is interpreted. I’m not entirely sure what my beliefs are in terms of the contagion I experience.
I have never had a near death experience. My heart went out to you when you explained how you had yours.
Xx
Thank you for your comment truthseeker,
I rarely talk about these experiences because it is so outside of the box and I don’t want to seem like a complete lunatic. I would like to do some more research about these topics now that I’m at a point in my life where I have more time. It is a relief to know there are people out there who also have experiences that are similar and now there is a forum that I can come to discuss these topics.
Decided to see what they say about Aura’s…Shoot me now = I am crazy…
Quote
‘While some with the ability believe it to be paranormal, studies have found that auras are most like likely the result of a neuropsychological condition called synesthesia. It’s basically a cross-wiring of the senses that is found in 1 in 2,000 people, or even more among those who are on the autistic spectrum’. https://www.higgypop.com/news/seeing-auras/
Autism again!!!
It does state it is our perception which causes the colour. Unconscious Sherlock Holmes types??hahaha – no but seriously…
I think I preferred seeing the world differently ie (consciousness is a dream) and quantum physics theory …
Contagious,
I am not a Contagion empath but have a strong Contagion element.
I can identify with all of what you state here but in a watered down way. People do drain me, busy places drain me a lot. It’s noise, but not in the way that people usually imagine noisy.
I have vivid dreams also. My dreams are indicators but I don’t look to them for accuracy. I have horrific dreams sometimes. I described one once and the person listening to me advised me not to tell anyone else in case I risked being committed haha! Fair point, well made.
My dad is stronger in Contagion than I am. He has seen and heard all sorts of things that technically ‘aren’t there’. I am aware that I have that in me, but have no desire to see things normal people don’t see.
I have to be careful when my mind is empty. I have a very busy mind usually, But occasionally if I task, something mundane and I’m not thinking, just empty headed, I can get caught out. I have thoughts that aren’t my thoughts, they sit outside of my own. Difficult to describe.
I remember painting the kitchen once. I was up the step ladders, alone, just painting. Summer day, nothing odd about it. Slowly but surely I became bombarded with external thoughts. A partial number plate, colour and make of car, a name, a street name, a place name, different people, different voices, some male, some female, all saying different things. Not talking to me as such, just snippets of information. Far too much information at once. It was a bit like being in the centre of an auditorium and everyone in there talking at the same time. Noise. Disjointed, meaningless, this feeling of pressure in my mind, a pushing in feeling as I pushed back.
I descended the step ladders brush still in hand. Walked over to the radio on the side and put it on. I wanted to hear life, real time. I purposely sang along to the music to hear my own voice and as I sang along and pushed back, the noise just stopped. I rarely task now without music or tv in the background. The best way I can describe it is that everyone has an inner voice. Your own thought voice. Hearing voices is not like hearing someone talk to you normally. It’s like thought voices that you know aren’t yours. Great. I hear voices, send the white van round.
Similar with seeing things, I’ve only been surprised by that once or twice. You don’t see things as you would normally. For me it’s like a thought that is placed over the real life scene that I am looking at. I’ve had that happen only a couple of times.
Animals, very similar. There was a family of deer that used to come late at night when I lived in SC. I sat on the grass and little by little they came within touching distance. I didn’t reach out, I just let them come. Deer are mystical creatures, to me they are, they have such a calmness about them, I loved that feeling when they were close. Any animal seems to come to me. My kids love to see that happen. They watch but don’t interrupt, it’s kind of a respect for what’s going on without a need to get involved.
That’s the problem with Contagion, it sounds weird, it sounds like I am a fantasist or teetering into schizophrenia. I’m not, I can assure you I’m normal, I think there’s just an awareness there that many people have either lost or don’t pay attention to.
Contagion isn’t the lead school so I’m not plagued by it but it’s definitely there and from a people reading perspective I see feeling the emotions of others as an advantage and something I very much rely upon.
I didn’t sense dark within HG when I spoke with him. I’m not a strong enough contagion though. I can’t read much from a distance, I need to have someone in front of me to feel them. If anything I’d say he has a strong energy or a strong presence. I can’t get a picture of HG in my mind. That’s unusual, I visualise a lot but he has no picture. I even have a description of him appearance wise, but when I speak to him I can’t visualise him at all. I see him as swirling black and gold flakes. Useful. Haha!
Xx
Interesting TS, I don’t see HG as dark either, nor as a strong energy/presence. I see him how I believe him to look, a combo of what he has shared in various places and also what’s on Instagram. It goes back to the image visual for me. My friend, whom I believe is a strong Contagion, felt him, it was the first I’d heard of this.
I wonder if Contagions have an awareness others just never have to begin with. I wonder if it makes Contagions really effective as police interrogators, though it could be harmful to them also possibly. Excited for HG’s work on this!
Hi TS,
I can relate to some extent (not voices as such – just an inner vision and I know I need to pay attention – more about inner images in my minds eye rather than voices or actually seeing things. I think and remember in pictures (dyslexia).
If there is a discrepancy between images – I have to understand why.
I think you may have a greater contagion element than you think xx
( HG – it has just occurred to me the link in last reply might not be appropriate – please do delete if needed 😉 )
Also another aspect that I was wondering if anyone else here has felt is the life flashing before you when you have a near death experience? I have had many near death experiences from physical abuse as a child as well as being in a natural disaster (EF5 tornado).
In these instances my life flashed before my eyes, but it wasn’t in succinct linear form. It was everything all in one moment like being surrounded by the brightest light that gets swallowed up and flows and converges in an instant to one small point. It was like vagaries as far as the 5 senses go but mostly felt like a sixth sense. You know how every moment has it’s own particular feel. Like feeling relaxed and at ease on a beach vacation and even if you go back years later to that same spot it has a different feel.
Also my dreams, thoughts, and memory work differently than those around me. I experience multiple thoughts and dreams also all at the same time. I picture it as many transparent pages that all have different information on them and then you can stack them on top of each other and view them all together. I see patterns this way too. I will have multiple dreams all at the same time like this. Also when I am awake I will have flashes of dreams or memories all in an instant. My memory definately works differently than other people. It works differently than my father and brother also. They both had eidetic memories. There has to be something genetic here because many of my daughters statements indicate that her memory and dreams work the way mine does and her father would often make fun of us both. Anyway just curious if anyone else experiences this?
Hello Psychology 🙂
Yes, a lot seems to take place in my mind’s eye, even the hearing element is heard within not from outside of myself. I’m not sure how the contagion element works if it isn’t your main school. I’m not sure if it makes that element weaker than a full Contagion or if it’s to do with rate of usage or preference. The lead school being the ‘go to’ School without that necessarily meaning the Contagion element is weaker when it’s experienced. I’m not sure about the interplay between the various school components within the empath.
There are lots of things I can’t do from a distance that full Contagions can and I think that whilst I experience certain things very acutely I don’t experience them on a daily basis, other than feeling the energy of people or ‘reading’ people. I lack the fine tuning, plus I’m cynical so tend to disregard or explain away occasional events because they don’t happen often enough for me to sit up and take notice.
I’m very curious to learn more about HG’s view of the Contagion empath. I’m also very curious to read how the other empaths here experience and interpret their Contagion. I will say that I value my Contagion element, I really wouldn’t want to be without it.
I believe in the interconnectedness of things as you do. I hold very similar views to your description of everything comprising of atoms which themselves are just energy. I do believe that all living things are linked in some way, to neglect one aspect impacts the rest. The balance of things. I suppose I sit somewhere in the middle of the scientific and the completely unprovable / instinctive approach. A fence sitter! Haha!
Really interesting to read your thoughts Psychology.
Xx
AV,
I think an empath would work incredibly well as victim support but I also think the Contagion element would make that incredibly difficult to switch off from. I think it might be damaging for any empath to link in to such trauma on such a regular basis.
I see what you mean with police interrogator. The Contagion element would be useful at the start I think. The problem though is that whilst the Contagion would likely be accurate, the other empathic traits might get in the way of, or override it. Compassion, desire to heal and fix. If those behaviours kick in then the Contagion likely gets drowned out. We would begin to hear what we want to hear, feel sorry for the perpetrator because he has an horrendous back story etc. Any advantage we have would likely be lost.
Honestly, I think the ideal police interrogator is the psychopath. No empathy to be used against him. Not distracted by compassion etc. Essentially a human computer that would sit and analyse every detail. Every inflection in the voice, every item of body language. Someone who spots the inconsistencies and capitalises on them mercilessly.
TS, yes, you are correct, better as victim support but also so taxing for them. And yes, the psychopath would do better as an interrogator. Thank you.
Truthseeker: I played with deer four years in Connecticut. Yes, gentle life sources. But your experiences are fascinating but I don’t have the same. Not exactly. A few times I have heard a voice. When I was young, very young, I thought it was God. ??? But I don’t hear voices. I don’t think you have any mental illness or because of my dreams I am equally insane. I don’t think we are insane. What we are??? Contagion??? What’s that??? As to HG, It’s a feeling. Not sure maybe dark is the right word. It’s a feeling of cold wind without ending. I have visualized him in personal form. But we will never know if I am correct lol. It’s interesting that you are creative. Many creative types had art from dreams.
Better than being described as hot wind I suppose.
Ha ha!
“Better than being described as hot wind I suppose.”
Or black and gold KitKat wrappers. Things are looking up!
Contagious,
I don’t think we’re crazy, more aware / more tuned in perhaps. I’ll admit voices is a bad one haha! That said it happens only when I’m in a very specific state of mind. This is also likely why I am opposed to anything like yoga, meditation etc. I’ll push back hard against anything that involves that “empty your mind” approach.
I think we seem to take in more information than many people. If you take HG as an example. He reads people cognitively. He has trained himself to recognise micro expressions, body language, phrasing, intonation, eye movements and more besides. We don’t do this cognitively. We don’t look at a person and think, “He just touched his mouth there, he is an ex smoker and that question just stressed him out.” We are processing similar cues subconsciously though. Probably, because at some period in our lives we needed to have the heads up as to what was about to happen next. It’s possible that feeling the energy or emotions of another person is just an extension to us needing and being able to spot these cues. Like many things to do with the empath, it’s likely based on self defence.
Our differences might be to do with how that extra information we receive is processed. Some Contagions might be more visual, some more auditory, some a mixture. Almost like learning styles.
The question then would be, where is this extra information coming from? I’d have to go with the subconscious. Our conscious mind takes up less than 5% of our brain power. What’s happening with the other 95% then? Is it watching Netflix eating Doritos?
My grandma woke up one night to see my grandad standing looking at her at the foot of the bed. My grandad had died several months earlier. Was this a memory? A waking dream? A recording of the past pulled from the subconscious mind into the conscious mind where it was ‘seen’? That same time again, the no man’s land between asleep and awake. I asked her “What did you do?” She said, “Well it was your grandad wasn’t it? I turned over and went back to sleep.” Haha! Technically she saw a ghost, but did she? Or, was that image of my grandfather standing there drawn from her subconscious? It very much depends on your belief system, again, personal to the individual.
I love the fact that you played with deer in Connecticut. They are very aloof, but they feel very much like they are looking into you, sensing. Those deer must have liked what they felt.
Xx
Hi Contagious,
Pawa – is fine 🙂 I apologise for the late reply – I do not get notified for some reason.
Wow yes I fully get what you are saying.
My dreams have not helped me with regards to narc’s. Most have crossed a line before any serious attachment was formed. All except one and he did enough damage to me to last several lifetimes. I actually think my dreams about the abuse he went through helped him – rather than me.
I also have had thoughts that the prophets were people like us. It would make sense. My mom and Aunt are also Contagion. My mom is not as strong – but my Aunt also experiences this to a degree.
Hearing others accounts is very comforting – maybe I am not as crazy as I think.
Do you ever see auras around people? I do sometimes (not all the time and I cannot always do it as a matter of course). I remember once a guy who lived close coming to threaten us and seeing a black aura around him. Normally I say nothing – but I had never seen such a blackness around somebody before. He said it showed I should be scared of him. His response – (he did not get what I was trying to say) – made me just stare at him mouth open. He died 2 weeks later – he committed suicide.
I also wonder if Sleep paralysis is what causes people to report astral projection/out of body experiences?
I think I am up – maybe walking down the hallway – or even leaving the house. Than I realise I am still flat on my back in bed. I make a concentrated effort to move = wiggle my fingers. I think I am up – haha no – I get so far and have to come back to my body and try again. This might happen several times. My Aunt also gets this – but for her it is scary with things trying to get her. I was thankfully able to help her move past this – so for her like me – it is just bloody annoying.
I get the animal thing too. I have a dog. When he takes a random dislike to people – is it him feeling my response to their energy? Or does he also pick up on their energy and emotions?
I have so many questions…
Pawa: I don’t know the science. But I have visited both places I have never been to in real life and revisited people and places multiple times that I have known over a lifetime! I have also visited loved ones in places not my own. I have absolutely no idea why. And that feeling you had where you test yourself to see if you are actually still here in your bed. Yes. Oh my God yes. I know that feeling. You aren’t alone. Many times. And as to your dog…. Any dog owner knows they are contagions…. They know people as good or bad before us … if smart. Most Dogs “ sense” like we “ sense”. I must admit my frenchie is not very intuitive, lol. I must say I don’t buy into this idea of knowing a pattern. Not if the people and places don’t exist in real time.
Dogs sense on will this person feed me or not.
HG, yes, they tend to come to you and expect to be fed. Sometimes they can smell the food before the human can / does. My dog very rarely came into the kitchen unless I started cooking meat.
HG,
“Dogs sense on will this person feed me or not.”
My neighbour’s Siberian husky considers me part of “the pack’. She will pull and lunge on her owner’s leash when she can only sense me (and not actually see me) approaching the building. The husky does the happy greeting dance until I let her sniff hand and give her a little scritch on the head.
I have never fed her.
Does she sense that I am the kind of person who would feed her – if I had food on me?
She is completely reserved for the most part and doesn’t like my son – or any children for that matter – because they tend to move to fast for her comfort.
It took me a while to win her over, but it wasn’t achieved with food or treats.
Also Cher once said when she met Sonny.. it was all black except him. She knew then he was special to her. I had an experience like that in college, I was in a frat house and saw a frat boy for the first time sweeping the floor as a pledge… all of a sudden everything went dark but him… we later dated almost married and he remains one of the great lives of my life. I wonder if that “ shadowing” worked in reverse in your case as a sign. You know I write this as matter of fact. An experience like you. I feel safe here as opposed to some other forum that would make assumptions. I am looking for people like me and explanations and ?
I wish she had had a better intuition though because Sonny was abusive to her.
HG – I am not going to bite 😉
frenchie’s are cute – my German Shepherd has lots of frenchie friends 🙂
The patterns are just something which would make sense for me – a way of explaining – I have no idea if it is what is happening or not.
It is so good to hear others prospectives xx
It appears to me that dogs can see shapes/phantoms that the human eye cannot..
I have experienced on numerous occasions that dogs bark on ‘nothing’ while they are staring at ‘something’.
Those are drug sniffing dogs getting high on the gear they’ve detected.
Laughing….no wonder those dogs are always happy, giddy with excitement as they go about their job…..
Psyche ( shortened), I do not see auras. I am great at giving advice and understanding what someone is feeling accurately, I get them without words sometimes walking in a room, sometimes I get a physical sensation from it, but it is my dreams and relationship with nature that is contagian. I wish I saw auras. What’s that like? What does narc auras look like?
“What’s that like? What does narc auras look like?”
Apparently we suck at noticing them, that is why we needed to come here.
;–)
I can sit here and be awake and go to the places I have been in my dreams. I visit the houses, the ocean, the animals but the people won’t be there or if awake. Some will not be present at all. So I tested myself what do you feel. Wonder. Safety. Love. Maybe adventure but ? When I go them and I do in my dreams it’s like visiting an actual place. When I think of it, a little visiting a memory. There is not any anxiety, worry or fear there. It’s awe. There was one place where I went where I saw a person or archetype that has appeared in my dreams. He dresses in black. He is a trickster, a thief but also a seer of truth. Ugly truth and he lives in a place you must cross over to. In my dreams it is under a staircase by the side of a road . There is no sign of danger. He seems not threatening but your instinct knows don’t cross there. Not to that side. He always appears and looks at me pleadingly like a lost boy or a messenger of someone who knows that side but is caught. His presence is cold. Ice cold. Yet he tells me things. Warns me. He is both my friend and feared enemy as I know he is not from the side of my dreams but an interloper. He always speaks the truth. He reappears rare but his messages are true. He once chased me in a dream with his anatomy of a snake to tell me my husband cheated on me. He was. Oddly the chill I feel in my dreams, the messages remind me of him and HG. He has blue eyes. Athletic. About 5’10 or 11”. He is white.His dress is impeccable. He dresses well. Black but in an 80’s style goth. He has never spoke to me,despite our usual although rare meet ups. He is highly intelligent and aware. He is always on the go. His hair is spikey at times and others short. He always smiles but I know it’s not genuine or he mmirvus because of the cold air. The bitter cold. He shows up at my dream places but rare daytime. My friend shared he win an Emmy. He said with humility he did not know how he win. I had a dream of him the night before and that being was there cold with a page of mixed words with my. Weird. An archetype perhaps. Last night he shows me a page of mixed words. My friend had win some award or lottery.. Today my friend won a daytime Emmy but said he did not know how this could be. Weird and why and the goth guy there. ???Idk
It when I was a child, I was sent to a rheumatic sanatorium for several months (although I was not sick at all!). It was forbidden to visit relatives and could not go outside the castle and garden (the sanatorium was adapted in the old castle). The garden was fenced off with a high fence and closed behind a huge iron gate with carved fittings, and the entrance was guarded by a watchman.
I could only write letters to my mother and sister. Sometimes the nurses allowed me to come into the duty room and briefly talk to my mother on the phone.
I have been writing diaries since I learned the letters.
I’ve always been writing down dreams, that are meaningful to me.
I also wrote a diary, when I was in the sanatorium. The diary was pink with blue stripes, with a thick cardboard cover. I sat in a beautiful castle park, in a shady place where ivy twisted around the trees, looked at the lake, listened to birds, read and wrote. There was a great, well-equipped library there. I missed my family so much.
When I was isolated in a sanatorium, as in other reality, I had a dream. Grandpa was lying on the sofa in his house, smiling and talking to me. Long and beautiful. I felt warmth and comforted. I wrote down this dream. He made an impression on me. I devoted a lot of thought to him.
When a few months later my parents picked me up from the sanatorium, instead of home, we went to the cemetery. I was informed, that my grandfather had died. Nobody wrote this to me in letters, nor did my mother tell me on the phone. They didn’t want to worry me, when I was alone there.
Grandpa died the same night I dreamed. The same day, that I described the dream in my diary. On the same sofa. He suffered a lot.
The sofa was burnt.
Sanatorium? How old are you?!
40+ or 50-
It depends which side of the timeline you are on, dear HG 🙂
Strange as they closed in the 1950s
HG, I don’t know about your country.
In my country, sanatoriums are still very active. There are a lot of them. My mother goes every year for a monthly stay: mountains, sea or “healing waters”. You apply, and the location is chosen by the state health service, which tailors the location to your condition (based on medicals diagnoses) and which finances a most part of your stay.
Medical and care treatments, exercises, cryotherapy, brines, peloid, physical therapy, electrotherapy, laser therapy, all kinds of massages, water jets, centrifuges, psychologist, doctors of various specialties. Lots of different treatments from morning to afternoon. Service by rehabilitators, nurses and doctors.
Unofficially – sanatoriums are a place of “second youth” 🙂 A new place, a different reality, integration with many people, walks, evening dances, a bit of madness for seniors = friendships and romance are blooming 🙂
Sometimes I think, that this second bottom is more important for the life and health of patients and elderly people than medicine and relaxation 🙂
Maybe someday I will also use, when I get older and life, heh 🙂
I know those, who start their annual sanatorium trips as early as around 30! Although this is a gross exaggeration…
—————–
The sanatorium, where my mother placed me, when I was a child (and the only one I was in) no longer exists. Collapsed with socialism.
To fully reflect what it was like to stay there, I would like to add that we, children, called the director of the sanatorium, a well-known head of the hospital… Stalin.
In fact, I didn’t understand why. He was much nicer than my stepfather.
—————–
Now, in this old castle from 1472 there is a Rehabilitation Center and a Cultural Center.
This is what I search for… an understanding. But as I watched Ricky Gervais discuss the wonders of the world… octopus has 9 brains he said, it dawned on me that to try to figure out how and why nature evolves to its present form with certainty is to understand dreams. So much of the brain is not known and evolution is broadly understood but not with finite certainty. If you have Faith, as I do, it’s easy to say God does it. If you are like Ricky, it’s just simply not known not in any foreseeable future. But people are forever curious and in wonder of nature and in beautiful dreams like these. I do have a theory but I am waiting to see what others say. Thank you for sharing;)
And Joa I loved hearing about your experience. I have seen my father and my former best friend ( murdered in LA at 40) and others in my dreams in other places. I have had full on conversations with my friend and spent time here and there where she showed me around over a decade but sadly not lately. My father won’t see me but communicated in other ways ie a sticky note left on his table. My father is very loving I have seen deceased neighbors, and others too. But not outside a dream. Sometimes I have not wanted to leave my dream and fought it realizing I was awake but half there… as I love the person. I have never seen someone awake. Interesting. I have heard of this happening.
There are references to sanatoriums in Milan Kundera novels. They’re like heath retreats in Eastern Europe. Correct, Joa?
Contagious, it’s different for me. I’m not dreaming of the dead. At all. I have no “connection” with them.
—————–
Even about my grandmother, who passed away in July last year, so it is a “fresh” event that made an impact on me.
Digression 1: But I still hear her screeching voice in my ears and I remember the feelings our travels together evoked in my childhood… She liked to visit our country and the world, she liked to observe and get to know people. She loved life. And she was selfish, like every woman in our family 🙂 She had a good, successful life.
—————–
I dreamed my grandfather, when he was dying. He was still alive. He was dying, he was going, he was tiring all night, but he gave his last breath only in the morning.
As if this dream was goodbye.
Digression 2: When I was a child, my grandfather always used to say to me: “Joa, our little philosopher” 🙂
I wish I could talk to him now. He was a very wise man.
Contagious, so the octopus has 9 brains? Good for them, so they have the ability to carry out 9 activities 🙂
I too have experienced “psychic” dreams, “prophetic” dreams. And I’m HEAVILY affected by energy and emotions. Animals find me ” curious” as well. It’s the only way to describe it.
Please give examples? I am very interested.
Contagious, I have similar dreams. Some predict the future , some are sarcastic, they are never straightforward.
I love meeting people like me that I believe as on this forum not another. I have my theory… not revealing it yet but it’s was thinking of an alternative science based one. Is it possible contagions have different memories? I have my earliest one at 3. My mother could not believe it but I described pushing leaves away at a park while she was holding me and seeing a donkey with a colorful blanket on it with bells. I was born in upstate NY and lived in Tarrytown. My father side is Dutch from Friesland and we lived by sleepy hollow, home of the headless horseman. I have an excellent memory to the dismay of my hubby lol … and if you consider all the experiences, movies, books, travel etc… what if our brains just dip into them in a different way then others creating these lucid movies in our heads at night. The “ foreseen” ones are less telling but perhaps our memories grasp signs like a mentalist. Add coincidence? I was just mulling over alternative science based ideas. Not sure if explored…..also our inner instincts don’t always protect us from narcs. We know but we override the system so to speak. But this I do know, many of us aren’t “ psychics” by trade. So it’s not always embraced. It puzzles. It just is. Ideas?
I’m convinced the dreams don’t come from us because I they’re pretty consistent with their symbology (car is a church, pastor is the driver, congregants are the passengers) and they have elements of parody, they tell the future in a lot of cases. I think it’s beyond what I could come up with. The bible says ‘in the last days the young men will see visions and the old men will dream’ so that describes the situation quite well. The dreams are being associated with visions in that sentence which suggests prophetic dreams.
Pete: I do think it is a connection from beyond this reality. As my son said I am 100% believer in Faith and am an emotional thinker. I hope it’s not our last days though. I hope the young will change things. Thank you for your educated response!
Pete: Do tell. I fear that HG won’t be able to answer the truth I seek. It’s like my bio chem atheist friend said “ some things are just not known. “ Hawkings spoke of parallel universes but did he prove them? No. Brilliant mind. I have Faith. I have absolute Faith. Not in one religious practice but I chose Christianity. I was raised in it so it is my seed. I feel comfortable in Catholic and Protestant faiths. I respect all religions. If you have specific prophetic dreams without any foundation they come from somewhere. My experience was not normal. I don’t regularly dream like me this. It was freezing cold. I woke up screaming and my first reaction was to pray on my knees to never ever experience it again. I have not, thank God. I got specifics on a murder that I could no way have known and that was part of it. Only part of it. I felt his adrenaline as he pounded on an elevator door with a watch on his wrist reading 2:17 am. There were clocks earlier with the same time but that feeling of being him at the elevator door was not me. He had black hairy arms in my dream and when I saw him at the third trial. It was sick. Also my murdered friend appeared at the end of the dream. Her arms dissolved into mine as she asked me to tell her family the truth. She gave me messages for each of them which I will keep confidential. See? Two trials I did not attend or know about ended up in hung juries as she developed a drug habit after a surgery for scoliosis or “ hunch back”. 12 inches of steel in her back with flanges to support the spine. Very painful. She wanted to have kids and was 40 and the doctors advised her on the surgery. The prior juries were hung because the defense said she snapped her own beck using drugs. Her killer spent a week or so not allegedly noticing her dead body in the other room before fleeing to another state. His research into asphyxiation was barred from the trial as was his prior restraining order for strangulation against his ex wife. Evidence code 352 and prior bad acts. Like many, I blame the medical profession on her addiction to pain killers. But I digress …the time of her death was shown to me many times. Papers fluttered in the wind of her window settling on her notebook written down was the motive. I had no idea who she was even living with. No way to know when she was killed or what time. I wonder has anyone experienced a freezing cold dream ? One that you never had experienced before? I was in her room but the wind whipped through it like a tundra. I awoke screaming and freezing cold yet I live in Southern California. I am not mad but curious as you can understand to meet others like me. This was the strongest prophetic dream but I have many. In the past year, I awoke to two other friends crying for help. One lost her partner I learned that day. The other his mother that week. It goes on…both I had not spoken to for awhile and had zero knowledge of any facts whatsoever that could lead to knowing about deaths in their lives. But I will say this, the cold case forum I attended, the speaker works for the OC sheriffs department, and she asked me to join them but take a test. I did well. 9 out of 10 pictures I could draw the right conclusion. So yes, there is maybe a rational explanation that I see patterns. But not if you have no pattens… btw I have no time to join the cold case group of the police department or whatever role she played with it.
I want to add the dream where my friend lost her boyfriend to death was a year after she died at 50. I never knew John. It was a very detailed dream. My other friend who lost his mother is an ex in the music industry that I talk to about once a year. To show how ignorant I was, I complemented her on going natural or to dark hair on FB. I learned this was a pic that he had posted after her death. I must add that since childhood my friends know I dream “ weird.”
Yours are very specific and straightforward, although I know how it is when you wake from a bad one . It is a bad feeling to have a bad dream when you know it relates to reality, so its not just a dream. You wake up alone in bed with nothing but the dream to think about and remember. Mine are different, I’m curious about my own future, so that’s all I get . It feels like I’m being played with because one will seem really bad and have me worried , but then it will turn out to be a completely different interpretation, or one that seems like something good is going to happen but then that’s just a symbol for something else. Like for example I might have one where I’m being given money but its just a symbol for someone giving me some advice. If God is giving me these dreams he knows I will interpret it as something good and be disappointed when it turns out to be not what I thought, so I don’t understand why he is doing that. My actual life has been like that, I think something good will happen, someone promises me something but they turn out to be a liar or the thing turns out to be a burden. Most of the dreams I’ve had that came true are just inconsequencial things that I didnt need to know about. I’ve had a lot of big predictions about myself though, none of those have happened yet. Do you have any about yourself?
Hi Contagious…I have the exact same dream experiences as you described. You said it’s like being in a movie that is exactly how it is! Sometimes Im in the movie other times Im watching it.
I have had dreams I dont understand at the time and realize it was a prediction that unfolds.
I’ve never met anyone who describes exactly the same way they dream.
Chi mom and I have a chi rescue! I always have enjoyed reading your comments. You are obviously a kind compassionate lady. Your wording is better than mine but nailed it. And my question is why? The movies in our heads at night aren’t common. Not all of mine were revealing of future events. Some are helpful with work. I won a trial on a dream fact. Some are just weird. Make no sense. I go to places meet people and in different places I have never been over and over and they are of no practical effect. Others give symbols and signs. Others have been art. Stories I wrote down with no relation to reality. Just a movie that I put to words. I wrote a legal thriller and a child’s book on them with no desire to write but I thought why not, it is an interesting story. I will give an example one involves me as a black woman who was a model doing art but convicted in the 60’s based on race discrimination on porn charges. No idea why I dreamed that one little section of this “book” that is just an account of a dream. I have yet but soon will publish this 400 page dream that I wrote in my 20s and edited over Covid lockdown. There is one more “book”. This was a long several day dream of Celtic myth that I didn’t think I even knew until I researched it after my dreams. The archtype was accurate. I don’t know a thing about Celtic myths or did I see it somewhere, and just forgot. And then there are some… so illogical and irrational but specifically predictive that I can’t ignore it by rationalizing it away. I have a theory based on Hawkings research and my Faith but there is no scientific basis .. just conjecture.
haha went to try and find this – work in progress… Will love to read when completed 🙂 Have not really found anything which captures the true essence of what you call ‘the Contagion Empath’. Maybe because like me – we hide much for fear of being branded ‘crazy’. You find rational explanations which never really encompass what you experience. If we even understand it ourselves… Few are allowed in…
I get the crazy part. I hide mine. Professionally I never ever mention it. Can’t wait to see if HG gets “us.”
Crazy to normals? Points of difference to others for contagions. Heightened sensitivity. I am so happy about this series HG. Can’t wait to read.
Oh yes indeed, I do hope HG is able to throw understanding our way 🙂 I am always looking for rational explanations…
Contagion has been linked to autism – which runs in my family. Autistic people are great at maths and seeing patterns. Are we – where we are so in tune to peoples emotions and energies and the connectivity of every living being – could we also be working out patterns which our subconscious tells us via dreams? Dreams being just one element of our confusing selves 😉
Interesting point. Autism also runs in my family. My son is autistic, and at times he shocks me. He can feel when I am unwell, etc even from another room with the door closed, he will come and find me and ask how I am. I asked him if he can feel me being unwell and he said yes. He seems to have….I’m not sure how to put it, but a greater understanding than I did at his age of others emotions and what are his. He becomes abrupt or short at times and I’ve noticed it’s when he no longer wants the others energy entanglement.
Connectivity to other beings… do your dreams involve the deceased? Connectivity…
Mine do, no Contagion here. And actually feeling during and after the dream the physical contact with the animal, twice, both dogs. Very disturbing, for days afterward, I didn’t want to wake up either time, I wanted to stay with them. It happened a year or two after they each died. Not with any person yet. It frightens me for it to happen with my dad.
Sometimes not often. What I mean by ‘Connectivity’ is a feeling we are all connected. We are all one of a whole. Nature and all things. How to explain… Our body is made up of hundreds of atoms – connected to form us as a person – these atoms interact with those of the air, ground etc – so does everyone else in the same way. Just like our body is connected this way – so too is the whole fabric of everything. I feel and see this Connectivity 🙂
I only have a significant contagion element but I can tell you so much about dreams. Anyone here has OBE or astral projections? I do, and believe me, thousands and thousands of people too, so much so that there are many scientific projects doing research on it. The experience always starts with a generalized vibration throughout your whole body. The first time it happened I was horrified. I don’t frequently feel attuned to people like that but I know if a family member is in pain because I feel the same pain or I dream about a person and then they call me (and many Hoovers have been predicted this way in my case). It is synchronicity, not just a coincidence. Talking about this is probably gonna create an image of myself as SP the crazy Empath but I don’t care.
hahaha just thought of a better analogy = we all have our individual computers – but connected through the web 🙂
SP,
Have you seen the tv series ‘Behind Her Eyes’?
I think you would really enjoy it.
There is a school of thought that says humans will find the route to eternal life and they will do it through technology. Essentially the soul / conscious mind is viewed as being separate from the body. The body dies but the soul / conscious mind lives on. The metaverse is in its infancy, but in some ways it’s conceivable that humankind will ultimately integrate itself into a virtual world. The mind is uploaded, no need for the physical form.
Astral projection works along similar lines I think. Two distinct parts. The mind doesn’t need the body, so technically is free to travel.
Personally I’m tempted to say again that the travelling is a travelling within the subconscious mind. What if every single image, sound, memory, is actually stored from the day we are born? At the rate we are now bombarded with information, we likely have the images stored to link together huge streams of information relating to a specific place or time that we have never consciously visited. It’s possible that this sensation of travelling to different places or times is actually our own brains ordering information into coherent scenes or movies. I think the answer to a lot of the ‘stranger’ experiences in life, likely lies undiscovered within our own minds.
Xx
Hi TS, yes, I watched the show and really liked it for obvious reasons! I am not sure about the relationship to our brains, especially when you are considered non neurotypical according to science (I am appalled that synesthesia is considered a “condition” and studied as a pathology). I can only tell you I have lucid dreams and astral projections, and, while the former are very vivid, I know I’m sleeping, however, the latter are not anywhere near the category of a dream. You are not asleep, and I don’t recall stored experiences. I don’t attach any religious significance to this by the way.
SP,
Ha, yes, thought you would enjoy that series, me too.
I don’t mean to underplay or explain away your experiences at all SP. I don’t think you saw it as that, but just to be sure.
I’m not religious either but I do have my own type of belief system so I’m not opposed to the idea of a kind of spiritual element in play as regards Contagion and how it manifests in people.
I tend to lean more to a scientific explanation but even with my own experiences I find it difficult in some instances to explain things in a more scientific way. Some experiences are just very difficult to find an explanation for! My dad has seen far more, heard far more than I have and his views are far more spiritual than mine, despite him being an atheist!
Sometimes it might be better simply to accept these experiences as they are, interpret them in our own way as best we can, and just consider ourselves fortunate to have them at all.
It is fascinating though isn’t it? Where do you go when you project?
Xx
TS, I didn’t think you were trying to do that, don’t worry. You and I had a conversation in a past thread where we found out we have the same belief system, if you remember. About science, my opinion is that science is always behind, and although it is wonderful that there are new scientific discoveries and advances all the time, it is always frustrating that we have to wait until certain things are scientifically proven to validate experiences. For example, HG’s knowledge of narcissists and empaths goes way beyond what the medical community knows so far. Imagine if we had to wait until they accept that we are empaths scientifically to understand why we act the way we do. The closest I have read so far scientifically based is that we are hypersensitive.
Oh I forgot your question sorry. I would love to say I go to the Moon or to Paris.. unfortunately, the times it has occurred I was so scared that I stayed there, seeing myself asleep, or around the corridor and my kitchen. I know I could move if I wasn’t that scared, it’s a very strange feeling. I told UMRN about this last year, and we also discussed synesthesia etc; he told me I had a neurological problem. If I move past my fear, I swear I’m visiting his house at night and tickle his feet in his sleep, which must be scary and unpleasant enough.
Hey SP 🙂
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do remember now. Our belief system works for us, not flawless but most beliefs aren’t 🙂
I agree, often science is late to the party, I think neuroscience is definitely speeding up in terms of discoveries into personality and personality disorders but it still takes a hypothesis to spark the research in the first place. This is one of my greatest irritations with Vaknin. (Who?) Intelligent man academically, well read, well researched, but entirely unwilling to infer, to make an intuitive leap. It turns into regurgitation rather than new information. HG will put his money where his mouth is. He has taken a leap as regards his work on empaths especially and he repeatedly stands by his own research. That’s true intelligence, not regurgitation. That kind of work does spark further scientific research, eventually.
I’d be scared to move too I think. I’d do what you do, hang there thinking, “Crap, how do I get back?”. Either that, or I’d think, “I think I’m dead. Am I dead? I wonder if I get to fly?! “I’ve always wanted to be able to fly haha!
I watched a documentary on OBE’s a while ago. My general feeling was that the accounts were so similar, so detailed that it is very difficult to disprove those experiences or put them down to oxygen deficit or chemical changes in the brain. People have given detailed accounts of events that took place on the operating table as they were looking down on the scene. I don’t see how anyone could give such detail even if they were semi conscious.
Next time, see if you can move outside, then come straight back!
Xx
How does patterns explain things never experienced? Like seeing the death of a close friend murdered through a dream of a clock showing 2:17 am and then finding out a year or so later in a trial that she died between 2:15 am and 2:30 am from the LA coroner and never having been there or knowing about the murder? Or dreams like this? Do you suggest connectivity has no time or space? Truly interested…truly…
Steven Hawking wrote about the end of the earth. There is hope! But he spoke of multi universes. I use the term dimensions. Steven wrote of no space or time in them. I believe we slip. Contagions slip there. I am no Steven Hawking. But my own experience cannot be denied. I have experienced outer body dreams but the vast majority have been to other places seeing other people sometimes repeat in 5 senses like I am there. Do you have the same experience? Can you smell the air? Feel the temperature etc… ? How this relates to narcs, I don’t know. But why are these discussions here? There is an obvious connection to contagion. You won’t find these discussions anywhere else in this forum.
Hi SP,
I can relate through my experience of Sleep Paralysis. Funny, but when I am walking through the house, the people I see are actually doing exactly as I saw before actually getting up. Can happen in the morning – but more often – because I know I am dreaming and if I do not like the dream – I decide to wake up.
Personally, I have not ruled out a neurological reason. I know I can enter REM sleep in less than 10min. These are hallmarks of Narcolepsy from what I have read. Getting tested – well lets just say – I have given up. There is no cure anyway.
Even if it is the case of a neurological reason – does this lesson the experience – or our feelings towards the experience? Our need to fully explore our experiences?
Pleasure is caused by receptors in the brain. Congenital insensitivity to pain is a condition that inhibits the ability to perceive physical pain. – All very real. Some people can feel love and empathy – others cannot. Belittling your experience is silly – it is all neurological after-all and science cannot explain everything 😉
I will give you an example from yesterday. Friends of mine are actors who worked with Ray Liotta. I know nothing about him only that he died at 67. They ousted a lot. RIp. I went to bed. I awoke with a dream of a man with a mustache in a white coat asking me how Ray died. He showed me three lines of letters. I spelled drag as the answer. I said ….Drug? I asked. I awoke. I looked up his cause of death today. Heroin was a possibility. Why? I don’t know why? Now this example is a lucky coincidence maybe. But I don’t really know Ray. I barely remember him as an actor…why?
Everything that doesn’t fall into the “norm” is looked down as a pathology or a flaw or a disease. Neurodiversity exists, and in a very wide spectrum. PSYAWA, sleep paralysis is preparatory to astral projecting and it’s a form of lucid dreaming. I used to have those too, not anymore. You see people you know because you are dreaming, when you astral project you don’t see people you know, as I have read (because I’m a chicken and didn’t venture out). If you don’t make yourself wake up, you will experience the vibrations and astral project. I know it sounds like magic or science fiction but it is not, trust me. The Monroe Institute (founded by Robert Monroe, nothing to do with Marilyn) has been doing research about this for decades. Its founder, like you mention, thought he had a brain problem. After many cleared tests he realized his brain was perfectly ok. What he was experiencing was nothing different from what Buddhist monks already have proven about different states of altered consciousness through meditation. There are tons of research studies on the science behind meditation and mindfulness, as also on meditation and astral projection. I noticed that those episodes I have are more frequent when I am more rigorous at keeping my meditation routine. To answer Contagion, I don’t smell anything but I noticed before the vibrations I hear loud noises, like a clap or a slam, and when I asked my husband the day after he didn’t hear anything. But neither do my dogs, which would be barking if they did or if they noticed I was convulsing in bed. When I notice the vibration stage I don’t think anyone notices anything but me, apparently that is a common occurrence; it has been demonstrated that everyone without exception possesses the ability to experience OBE, but I agree that the reason why we are discussing it here is because empaths with contagion element may be more readily available to these experiences because it’s like being an antenna, in the same manner we can feel other people’s emotions, which has no scientific explanation either. I can’t imagine being a majority Contagion, it must be overwhelming. I only have these experiences from time to time and in my opinion they are annoying when not terrifying.
I understand being branded crazy for being what we are.
My ex (a Greater) was relentless in his vengeance, I foolishly let him in.
Do you only have dreams? Or when you enter a place or touch/see an object pick up impression of people?
For me, what you would call psychic is only dreams. I have never had a psychic experience outside of it. Never met a psychic I thought was real. Sorry. I get nothing from objects. I may have seen but I chose to rationalize seen ghosts. So nope. I do know how others feel or what they want, not narcs. Narcs confuse me. I do find solace in nature. But who doesn’t? Nope for me, I cannot escape the dreams that plague me my whole life. No rational explanation. The prophetic dreams that were realized astonished others but if retold… well my atheist bio science major friend from Berkeley friend once said to me “ some things can’t be explained.” I feel the need to know.
By the way, if everything is connected and it’s all atoms. Explain more. It’s too general for me to understand. This request is with all due respect. A desire to know.
Hi Twilight,
Sometimes objects can give off energy – but mostly it is just places with echos of the past etc. I have passed out twice – almost 3 times from the energy felt. Once at a church, once at a place people went to remember the dead (not in a graveyard tho) a memorial type thing) and almost at a recent concert – my friends tickets were for the pits. xx
I get what you mean here Psychology. Places definitely give off energy. I feel for you passing out. It does feel like someone removed the air from the room. It happened to me once in the tunnels leading down to the London Dungeon. I had my kids with me who sensed something wasn’t quite right. My son noticed first and took my right hand. My daughter followed taking my left hand. I think their hand holding switched my focus to them instead of the noise. I felt a lot better and continued on through the exhibition with no further issue. Maybe sometimes we just need a prompt to pull us back to the present moment.
Xx
There is a documentary that my London husband says is the best ghost story and best I have ever seen about the London underground’s. I must get it to you!
Yes 100% TS – it is just like the air has been sucked out 🙂
TS,
“always choose the horse described as ‘has heart’ or ‘has spirit’. That’s my horse! “Three legs, donkey cross, has heart.” Yes please. Take my money!!”
Oh my god, this cracked me up!
Hahahaha!
Who Cares,
Haha! I’m glad you got a giggle out of that. Makes all my losses worthwhile!
Xx
Contagious,
Ooh yes please, I love a good ghost story!
Xx
When it comes to the ghosts and the various paranormal phenomena people talk about, my answer is always this:
I lived with my sister, when we were students and young employees… We had a dog and a cat, who bravely endured the notorious weekend parties in our house 🙂
When I got pregnant and gave birth to a child, and N2 was leaving home for longer and longer, he did not contribute to bills and played in his illegible games, I decided to reorganize my life.
I moved with the baby to another home, to another city. I wanted a quiet home.
My sister and I decided, that the dog and cat would stay with my sister and my future brother-in-law, who took my place.
For the first month in the new home, in the silence of the night, I could still hear the patter of cat’s feet and hooked claws, even though the cat was alive and well in my sister’s home.
These are just noises, that I was used to at night, during the quiet time…
Hello PAWA
I have rarely speak of my experiences, dreams that come true, places that have left an “echo” or something is going to happen, I have recognized people I have never met via photos, they feel familiar.
When I was a child there someone I met that recognized me for what I am, learned to hone my abilities due being a loner. It was a way of connecting to others.
Twilight: I felt afraid. This is the only place I talk about it except among close friends. Since childhood I am known for my strange dreams…even my diagnosed ex husband antisocial was in awe and feared them. My narc long term boyfriend the same. Neither really dreamed. The Mid ranger had nightmares of spiders. Both had trouble with sleep. I don’t. I love it. I was a “ gifted” child whatever that means. I was put in classes with others supposingly like me. I was chosen out of the entire state to be a scholar to political leaders in Washington DC and met leaders there if other countries… and was selected out of 50 to be the speaker at the closing ceremony at 18… and went to law school on scholarship. I am not into superstition. I am a reader of science and genetics. I am trained to be about logic and reason. I am not professing to be any scholar in any field. I don’t say this to brag as who cares! I am simply curious as over a lifetime I have these dreams. I cannot explain. I hope you join me in not feeling crazy or ashamed. I felt crazy.
Oh do you mean a psychic type thing? It’s not specific enough for that – (such as overwhelming sadness, grief – excitement) etc. The dreams are very specific and do link to future events – but I cannot control what I get. I see auras – but relate that to a persons health and maybe linked to the energy I feel. The closest I got to psychic ability – is watching the horse racing with my grandad. I could watch the horses move before the race and 9 times out of ten pick the winner based on their energy xx
Why do you think you get specifics c dreams that lead to future events? How does your contagion effect your relations with narcs?
Coincidence. I dare say you don’t keep a record of all the times you dream and it’s does not happen.
I do keep records. I have a diary of dreams that I call nightary.
Whenever anybody starts to tell me about the dream they had the night before my phone always starts ringing.
Hahahaha!!!!!! But don’t we all dream about you? ALL THE TIME???
Truth: it’s ghosts of the underground. It’s on YouTube! Xxxx
Hey Contagious,
Lovely, thank you. I fancy watching something scary tonight!
Xx
Coincidence. I dare say you don’t keep a record of all the times you dream and it’s does not happen.
Just seen this…
Mmmm = I published all in a book (self publish), so the time line can be seen. If they do – or do not happen – the record is there. Almost all in the previous book have occured. As I wish to remain anonymous – you will have to take my word for it. I have not ruled out that my brain is picking up patterns tho and organising them in dreams 🙂
I’ve been able to pick horses from watching them walk around the paddock, but it doesn’t work as well on TV. In my case, though, it’s a ballet thing. If I can’t see the gait from the right angle, I can’t do it.
Haha! I bet on horses occasionally. I read all of the summaries and always choose the horse described as ‘has heart’ or ‘has spirit’. That’s my horse! “Three legs, donkey cross, has heart.” Yes please. Take my money!!
Truthseeker:
The owner of a B&B I stayed at in Saratoga said she does it by the colors of the Jockey’s silks. I’ve heard others do it by names: one race-goer decided based on whether a horse’s name referred to royalty or chocolate. If the same race included horses named “Candy Perfume Girl” and “Dancing Queen,” she’d put money on both.
Speaking of horses, DM headline:
“EXCLUSIVE: Was Prince William’s horse DRUGGED at Trooping the Colour rehearsals? Military veterans claim the royal’s Household Division charger seemed to have been doped to make it more docile, branding it a ‘disgrace’”
Gee, I wonder who planted this story.
All the Windsors grow up around horses; I seriously doubt William needed a roofied horse
Violetta,
Names and silks I think are pretty usual approaches. It’s likely the part time race goer that employs these methods. They haven’t the interest to look at form, they aren’t familiar with jockeys, weights, trainers, which ground the horse favours etc. Remove the statistics and you’re left with silks and name pretty much. A female jockey might pull in bets also just due to the fact that she offers something different.
I am a believer in the romance of the underdog, the against all odds story. So I look at ‘has heart’ as an indicator of what I hope for and secretly believe in. The approach is no more scientific than silks or name, but it’s something I go for every time I see it.
I have been heartbroken by recent stories in the press about the cruelty that goes on in horse racing / training. The way that horses are treated in such a disposable way when they give so much. Similar with dogs, so many wind up just being dumped when their racing days are over. It angers me. Any form of animal cruelty angers me. There should be business breaking penalties and jail time for perpetrators. Goes without saying which group the worst offenders will belong to.
Truthseeker:
I went to either Belmont or Aqueduct with a friend from my comic books job. He was looking at Sires and Dams, trainers and owners, and betting trifecta and boxing.
We watched the walk around the paddock before one race. I commented that one horse was “really pretty” (not even the one I had bet on–I was still going by the names in those days). He wondered why: it didn’t walk or trot any faster than the others; its legs weren’t longer; its expression wasn’t particularly alert.
It took me a bit before I could put what I was sensing into words. “It’s strong, but not tight and muscle-bound like that one over there. See the other one behind it? That one’s too loose. It’s uncontrolled.”
We go back to the stands, and neither his pedigreed bet nor my pick with a cool name makes the board. Yup, you guessed it. He gives me a strange look, as if he had just noticed the antennae sprouting from my head, then says, “Vi, tell me the next time you think a horse is pretty.”
Ever since then, I look for the Baryshnikov: the one who’s both strong and graceful. If you’ve seen him in Nutcracker or White Nights, you know what I mean. It doesn’t always work, especially if I’m watching on TV rather than at the track. When I saw actual footage of the real Seabiscuit, I thought, “I wouldn’t have bet on a horse with a gait like that if a choir of angels told me to do it,” so obviously the method isn’t surefire for picking a champion. But it’s definitely got better results than using horse names or silk colors!
And yes, they should never abuse these lovely, gifted animals. They are true athletes: not only physically strong, but needing the spatial awareness to cut around other horses without causing a collision and the communication skills to know when to pace themselves and when to put it all on the line. The jockey can’t do all of it.
I learned some riding informally at Girl Scout Camp and then in electives during grad school. One day I decided I had been sitting a walk long enough, and was warmed up enough to trot. Before I could click my tongue or tap my heels, the horse started trotting. A horse-showing friend told me they can pick up even minute changes in posture. I had liked riding before that, but from that moment, I was hooked: we could communicate!
Every now and then you’ll get comments sneering at the horsey RF, saying the horse does all the work. There may well be valid reasons to criticize the RF, but that isn’t one of them. One more enlightened reader pointed out that anyone who rides knows what it’s like to discover muscles they didn’t know they had. Yeah, I recognize that feeling!
Violetta,
“Vi, tell me the next time you think a horse is pretty.” Haha, exactly! Yes, I see what you mean, looking at the musculature and assessing strength but not tightly wound or too relaxed.
I agree, jockeys can’t do everything, the horse has to have a natural talent as well, a love of the race and a relationship with the rider. There’s skill, horsemanship, race acumen, but the trust within that rider horse relationship must have to be immense. Horses are majestic, I’m in awe of them, I wish I had continued riding as a kid. I came off riding with a far more experienced rider, knocked myself unconscious, came round, was urged to get back on again by my friend. The horse was spooked and I came off again. I kind of fell out with it after that, stupid, trying to do too much too soon, spoiled it for myself.
I had to look up Baryshnikov, you’re right, they are pretty!
There’s a horsey set locally. I see them out on the roads moving from A to B, my heart is in my mouth when I see how inconsiderate some drivers can be, overtaking way too close, accelerating away. People are stupid. I’ve considered taking lessons, just for the experience and enjoyment of the connection. I might do yet, and just make sure I don’t set off at gallop with a friend who tells me, “Oh don’t worry, your horse will just follow mine!”
Xx
HG with all due respect and I respect you a lot…coincidence may play a part but it does not fully explain certain phenomenon. I don’t know about gambling. Although I wish I had that ability! Lol But when there are too many coincidences over a lifetime, you take notice. I have kept a dream journal by my bed and I do record my dreams that are particularly noteworthy over 20 years. I am a journalist. I have gone back and found interesting things. There are some that are inexplicable … as how would I know that I would have a premature baby and having so many dreams about Marlon Brando while pregnant that I shared with so many as it was the old a bit heavier lol Marlon Brando only to have my son born on his birthday unexpectedly and weeks too early? This is one of many. If science, my uneducated theory is it has something to do with memory. Maybe I read an article somewhere about his birthday and sensed without the doctors knowing something was off… then perhaps it was a coincidence plus some sort of subconscious memory/ mentalist thing. I don’t know but I love hearing from others as lucid dreams aren’t common. There is something common among us. I could rattle off more specific examples and these type of dreams are not common (unlike lucid other types) but they shock you. I know there is science about Empaths in general. There is a different wire just not sure where dreams come in.
” I do record my dreams that are particularly noteworthy over 20 years.” – there’s an immediate flaw in your methodology.
Ready and excited about this series!🤗