Questioning Me

Do feel free to ask me anything you like. I am here for you to dip into my mind and for you to benefit from learning how I view the world. No question is off limits and if you want to establish a dialogue with me, then so much the better. You will be helping me so I can show the treatment team that I am interacting with people in this setting. You can ask me why I do certain things, what am I thinking, what my favourite food is, whatever you like. This is your chance to extract as much knowledge and information from me as you possibly can. If you want to just make a statement, go ahead. Fill your boots. I don’t know you so I won’t fly into a rage (this does happen when people I know question me but that is because they have an agenda – you don’t because we don’t know one another). I look forward to hearing from you.

4,684 thoughts on “Questioning Me

    1. Rebecca says:

      You’re welcome xx

  1. lovemrthornton says:

    Dear H.G.,

    What is your view on Johnny Cash’s 2002 rendition of Depeche Mode’s “Personal Jesus?”

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        What is your view of Marilyn Manson’s?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not keen.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:


          2. Contagious says:

            HGi didn’t know where to put this. So sorry if wrong thread. But Russle Brand got sober, no easy feat narc or not, got married, started a wellness site that’s aim is to help and seeks regular therapy to keep his marriage. He also struggles with bipolar. If you view his YouTube he seems to struggle with narcissism. I mean what more can a narc do? He can’t change. He obviously can’t escape his past but if a narc wanted to address narcissism Brand has tried everything. You like being a narc. Is it possible Brand doesnt? Is it possible he was diagnosed. Is aware of the label and doing what he can since 2017? What more can a narc do?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            You need to listen to my series on him fully.

  2. Bubbles says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    How tall are you ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      6ft 1”

      1. Bubbles says:

        Thank you

  3. Black Phoenix says:

    If you could have sex with a famous empath, who would you choose?

  4. The Mandalorian says:


    Is it possible for an Upper Lesser Type A Narcissist to believe that they are an Empath?


    1. HG Tudor says:


  5. Jalleh Doty says:

    Ok, so in the end, Are a majority of narcissists just neurotic people?

    1. HG Tudor says:


  6. TBS says:

    I watched “Bad Sisters” on Apple TV+ a few of weeks ago .. which despite the headline is very much all about a MALE narcissist, and the way in which the various females in his life “deal” with him. (Very good watching BTW for all actors involved).
    Regardless of the merits of that series, the male lead actor, Claes Bang, who plays the narcissist, had only recently appeared on my “radar” because of a movie called “The Last Vermeer” (very highly recommended) – where he plays an altogether different type of character from WWII.
    The interesting thing for me was that in “The Last Vermeer” despite the nature of his film character, I immediately saw him the person, Claes Bang, as I thought you HG might look, or smile, or affect, or somewhat represent yourself. I couldn’t shake it, despite finding it distracting.
    A few weeks later Claes reappeared on my radar in “Bad Sisters” where he is quite clearly, and insidiously, depicted as a fully-fledged narcissist, being at least UMR, but more likely a Greater.
    Is Claes himself a narcissist possibly? He plays it so incredibly well.

    1. lovemrthornton says:

      Sounds really good, TBS! Thank you for the recommendation. Have been looking for a new series to binge.

      1. TBS says:

        Hi LMT.
        “Bad Sisters” is definitely worth the time invested. It has a few imperfections here and there, but the cast overall is outstanding as is Claes Bang (what a great name), who plays the narcissist, “John Paul” . Hope you enjoy it.

        1. Heidi says:

          Thanks, TBS … I am about to finish up my binge of 8 seasons of “Dexter” and will head to this one after that. 👍

  7. B. says:

    HG, what psychopathic elements can empaths utilise in their own lives in order to get the life they want and deserve? Thanks. x

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You book an audio consultation with me and I explain it in detail to you.

      1. In so many words says:


        Does the invitation to book a consultation to discuss which psychopathic qualities to adopt, and how to do it, extend to others?

        I want to learn to plan and then act without getting bogged down by fear, anxiety, rumination, regret and self-doubt. Psychopaths do. I know that I will continue to feel fear and anxiety. I want to learn to act as if I don’t.

        Would a consultation to get your advice on how to do it be appropriate?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. In so many words says:

            Thank you, HG. I will book one.

            It also occurred to me, that learning to think and act like a psychopath (ie, as if feelings are not there) is a big part of escaping a narcissist.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I look forward to assisting you.

  8. TBS says:

    Have you skydived (in tandem or otherwise), bungee jumped anywhere in the world, or done the Bosnia Bridge jump?
    Also asked elsewhere ..

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, yes no.

  9. Candied Pansy says:

    HG, some Scandinavia and travel questions for you. Thank you.

    1. Have you been to Scandinavia? You’ve claimed interest in Swedish history.
    2. Have you taken part in Midsommar activities? Anything like the Ari Aster film?
    3. Do you have Scandinavian blood? Vikings had their way with the British Isles.
    4. Have you done kayaking, like week+ long tours?
    5. If so, are there North Sea or Scandinavian places you recommend?
    6. Have you been to the Pacific Northwest of North America?
    7. Have you been to southern California?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Yes. Not claimed, I have an interest in Swedish history.
      2. No.
      3. Yes.
      4. Yes.
      5. Yes.
      6. No.
      7. No.

      1. Rebecca says:

        Dear HG,

        Where I currently live, the town was settled by Swedish immigrates and the town has rich history from Sweden still. They have a tour boat that’s a reproduction of an old Swedish ship. They have dinners, Weddings and tours on the ship. It’s very beautiful and there’s a Swedish restaurant in town, that also serves old colonial type of food.
        Anyway, wanted to ask you, do you own a boat?? If so, what type of boat?? Have you ever been on a Cruise boat?? If so, which ones??Xx

        Thanks for your time HG and your replies xx

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes and yes.

          1. Rebecca says:

            Thanks HG xx

          2. Duchessbea says:

            Well that sums it up beautifully.

      2. Bubbles says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        Have you done free driving?
        There’s this doco on Netflix, The Deepest Breath… a captivating watch!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I always drive freely!

          1. Allison says:

            I see what you did there.

          2. Bubbles says:

            Dear Mr Tudor,
            Haha, you don’t miss a trick, sorry, I meant free diving …

      3. Candied Pansy says:

        Thank you HG. I suspected Scandi heritage.

        1. Which places do you recommend, re: kayaking? Much of Scandinavia, including Sweden, looks similar to the PNW, where I liked kayaking. So does Ireland.

  10. WhoCares says:


    You keep verbalizing that your original premise was missed by some individuals.

    For the sake of clarity, on my part, I didn’t miss your premise suggesting that the ‘guru like’ behaviour of some followers, towards HG, is a possible explanation for the choice to ‘like’ his “unpleasant lambasting” replies – I chose to ignore it because your chosen evidence to support that premise is suspect.

    1. TBS says:

      Says you .. and you are welcome to your opinion.
      Ongoing defensive responses and flack received from the “regulars” over an extended period to the question I posed to HG many weeks ago would belie your assertion.🗝
      If we were in olden times, I’d likely be stoned to death by now. ⚔🛡

      1. WhoCares says:


        It isn’t a defensive response, it’s an observation. I have not actually stated whether I agree or disagree with you re: guru like behaviour in some commentators towards HG. (You’re making an assumption there.)

        All I am doing is pointing out that your evidence is weak. In an environment where we learn to go to the evidence, you really should provide better examples to back up your opinion.

        1. TBS says:

          Okay .. so where’s the “evidence” in my reply where I specifically accuse YOU of being “defensive”?
          However, that is how you receive it, which I think you have to admit, given the nature of this discussion, is relatively interesting.
          The behaviour outlined in my original question put to HG is the evidence .. as is similar behaviour that has followed.
          You believe it’s weak, I do not.

          1. Anna Plyance says:

            If that isn’t this whole debacle in a nutshell. Hard to have a discussion when people answer questions no one ever asked instead of what is on the page.

          2. WhoCares says:


            You got me there – admittedly, I assumed that you included me in the group of those you consider being “defensive.” Perhaps, in addition to stronger evidence, you may want to work on adding clarity to whom your accusations are being directed at.

        2. Asp Emp says:

          WhoCares, good on you 🙂

          Hmmm, I wonder what the acronym of TBS is? 😉

          1. TBS says:

            “TBS” would in fact be the acronym, not the other way around.
            You must mean, what possibly could the acronym “TBS” stand for.
            I’ve a good idea what you’ve managed to come up with .. but do you know what your “ASP” acronym might represent? Hmmm? 🤔

          2. Asp Emp says:

            you can take ASP any way you like

          3. Another Cat says:

            Asp Emp
            “Another Cat likes your comment”

        3. TBS says:

          Or .. .. .. you might try practicing what you preach. Shocking. 😱

      2. Anna Plyance says:

        In my mother tongue, there is a saying that a dog that is hit will bark (meaning if the shoe fits). There sure has been a lot of barking going on.

      3. WiserNow says:


        Your mention of a biblical death by stoning gave me a laugh 🤣

        I think a biblical stoning would be more merciful compared to a blog-style stoning. That’s because the biblical variety is designed to cause death quickly.

        A blog-style stoning can drag on for years. It’s actually more like purgatory than a stoning. Sinners guilty of an affront to you-know-who are required to expiate their sins over a protracted and indefinite period 😇🤣

        By the way folks… I’m kidding. I’m just having a little fun. Seriously, it’s a joke!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Except you’re not. You’re doing what you have done before, delivering a jab at people and then say, I was only joking to avoid accountability.

          You repeatedly engage in invalidating people by suggesting that their views are biased since they are seeking to curry favour, yet you do exactly that with anybody that happens to agree with you or demonstrates a supportive comment towards you. Time and time again you reject people’s views irrespective of the merit of what they’ve written but simply because they’ve agreed with me or taken a contrary stance to you.

          1. WiserNow says:


            That explains the faint sound of marching I can hear in the distance… 😨

            You have sent your minions, haven’t you? They’re getting closer…😱

            Nooo… not the dungeon! Please, someone save me?! Not again!!

            Please, no more purgatory. No more Celine! I know all the words by now…

            “Near… far… wherever you are…. I believe that the heart does go on….” 😖😩


            Seriously though, when you or your ‘supporters’ have a joke, it’s described as frivolity and good for the soul, a welcome bit of fun to lighten a heavy subject…

            …but when someone else has a joke, it’s a jab? Seriously?


          2. HG Tudor says:

            Banging the same drum again.

          3. Anna says:

            HG speaks the truth. His observation is 100% correct.

          4. Rebecca says:

            Annaamel and HG,

            You see the poking now?? I know HG sees it. Why I reacted to the Provocation earlier the way I did. HG sees it. Just ask AspEmp about it. I’m not being overly sensitive and I’m not overreacting, the poking is real.

        2. poetloui says:

          If i may share my thoughts.
          The only thing is, that the idea of a joke, is that it’s supposed to be objectively funny.

          I used to have a mother in law who would throw quite horrid statements out, and then cover it with a forced laugh and a pretence of ‘i was only joking.’
          When it happens over and over, people around them start to see patterns of passive aggressive speech & behaviour.

          Many do this unfortunately, but personally i think it’s something that people can actually learn to be aware of and work on not repeating in social interactions.

          Effective Communication is learned, it’s a difficult skill & there is always something to learn in terms of improving the way we deliver our messages.

          Some non neuro typical people find it hard to identify sarcasm, irony and social cues in terms of socail intercourse.. in these cases, it’s important to be aware of limitations in understanding.

          It’s hard when we’re trying to communicate but we’re misunderstood at times. It’s important I think to get our true messages others.
          Anyway. Those are my thoughts.

          1. WiserNow says:

            Your comment gave me a giggle, Poetloui. Thanks for that.

            The irony is… I don’t think you were joking.

            Ah, mothers-in-law… they are the butt of many a joke though, aren’t they? Same with the Irish.

            Pota-y-to or Pota-r-to. It’s horses for courses.

            Here’s a knock knock joke for you….

            Knock Knock…

          2. poetloui says:

            I actually have no urge to play knock jokes or any other comment game thank you. (Particularly here & now. )
            No. I wasn’t joking BTW.
            Mere simple observation on my part that may have been relevant to the conversation.

          3. WiserNow says:


            So… no chance for a limerick either then?

            Sounds like you’re not in a laughing mood. Sounds like you’re in an analytical mood. That happens.

            Oh well, maybe another time when you’re not so invested in your own opinion and can see the funny side 🙂

          4. HG Tudor says:

            At it again.

          5. WiserNow says:


            Can you explain what you mean by ‘At it again’, please?

            I truly did have a giggle at poetloui’s claim that “the idea of a joke, is that it’s supposed to be objectively funny.”

            How can a joke be objectively funny?

            The way I see it, if jokes are supposed to be “objectively funny”, there will either have to be:
            1) ground-breaking scientific research to assess, measure and prove the objective funniness of jokes; and/or
            2) some form of consensus across any given audience reacting to a joke so that it is possible to ‘objectively’ assess whether the joke was funny or not to a predetermined percentage of the audience.

            If my reply to poetloui’s comment was not in the same analytical vein nor agreeable, it is because I found the premise of his/her comment unrealistic.

            To poetloui,
            I’m sorry if this is not what you want to hear. In the interests of “effective communication”, I am being honest and straightforward. I understand though, that my responses may be received by you in a different way.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Your passive aggressive provocations which you fail to recognise.

          7. poetloui says:

            Dear HG.
            I’m viewing the continued commentary from WN to you about me, as an attempt to drag me into some puerile & futile exchange.

            The repetitive digs & assumptions of how I perceive things.
            The pokes by proxy towards me, via indirect commenting,is I believe a tool that WN is 100% using.

            The baiting into disagreement and the mockery of my input is screaming out of the screen towards me as a pitiful display of someone stumbling through an internal power imbalance.
            (feeling threatened by the perceived power of others but being unable to control their leaking discontent about it)

            I have had my fair share of interactions with narcissists and I believe I recognise red flags more easily now.

            I would like to take this opportunity to thank you HG for your unique presence & your unwavering commitment to producing & providing valuable information
            & your considered responses. .

            The No Contact rule is a lifesaver .( Literally, this could save lives.)

            I will save my commentary for people able to control themselves better & will not enter into pointless ‘back n fore’ exchanges.

            I am quite new to this blog area, but I think I have the measure of most here. I believe I am measured in my responses and have zero agenda for combative interactions.

            Thanks again HG 🙏

          8. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome poetloui

        3. Duchessbea says:

          WiserNow, what’s your story? What do you think you are benefitting from on this blog. I have never communicated with you. I have read comments of yours on other posts. I have to say my jaw dropped over the very rude and dismissive manner in which you respond to questions asked, and the way you address HG. I can only imagine you have been hurt by a narc and want to take that out on HG. From what I can see from reading the threads is that HG, and a number of others, have given you very sound advice, and you are viewing it, and responding to it, in a mocking and hurtful manner. You seem to bounce from one thought to another and it appears that sometimes you are contradicting yourself. I’m not trying to overstep the mark here, but, I don’t like to see you sneering or demeaning other people on this blog, who are genuinely seeking assistance from HG and also getting advice from others. I’ll be honest, it’s like you are only here to make fun, and belittle people, and if that is the case, might I suggest in the friendliest way, to clear off. That sort of rubbish is not wanted.

          1. annaamel says:


            WN may answer you herself, but I also want to respond. WN has definitely been hurt by a narc (she is the child of a narcissist) but i suspect she also feels hurt by her experiences and interactions on the blog. Her recent comments in this thread suggest to me she may have moved into a ‘hang it all’ phase where she feels nothing she can do is right so she may as well not bother.

            From reading many of her posts (and interacting with her) she’s not here to belittle people. She’s here for the same reason many others are. To discuss narcissism.

            Btw, it’s not particularly friendly to tell someone to clear off.

          2. WiserNow says:


            Rather than respond to you in a longwinded, explanatory manner, which I strongly suspect would be futile, I will reply with a limerick:

            After all the words said under this sun
            And all the stones thrown until the deed’s done
            Maybe then we will see
            That to live is to be
            And the battle is with the army of one


          3. WiserNow says:

            Thank you annaamel, for your comment to DB. I appreciate your kindness.

          4. Duchessbea says:

            @annaamel, well that makes sense. Thank you for letting me know. My only reason for saying ‘to clear off’ is that there are some new people who are in a somewhat vulnerable way having recently come to realising what they were ensnared with. When reading WiserNow’s comments on different there seemed to be an element of a sneering belittling vibe and I didn’t not think it was nice. From what you have told me, now, knowing WiserNow’s background, it makes sense she is obviously trying to get her head around things.

          5. Duchessbea says:

            WiserNow, annaamel very kindly gave me an update of your situation. Now, knowing the facts, I can empathise and sympathise with you in equal measure. Along with a number of others, I know where you are coming from and it is not easy. But the good thing is that it will get easier. I have taken a lot out on HG. Believe me, I have thrown everything and the kitchen sink at HG. And to be fair HG has been very gracious to me, as well as admonishing me when it was needed. When you do know, it makes sense, and you walk away. These people are soulless, vacuous and the modern day vampire. WiserNow, if I misconstrued some of your comments on different threads as being mocking and making fun of others, it was only because of the wording you used and the way that you wrote the comments. Words have power and strength behind them. Perhaps you were trying to be funny to try and help you process, I don’t know. But what I can say is that HG will keep responding to you in the manner that he is, and he gives you a very clear reason why he is doing that, in HG’s response to you dated August 14th at 12.52pm (Questioning Me), and I’m not saying I am right or wrong on this, and two wrongs don’t make a right, but poetloui also addresses comments you have made to her on August 14th at 14.20pm (Questioning Me), in the same way I viewed comments made by you on different threads.
            Perhaps, it might be best to take a step back from throwing out comments in an angry, sarcastic manner (sending me the limerick – if that is you trying to be funny, it fell short of the mark, just for your information, a limerick is meant to be funny, not sarcastic), perhaps go for a consultation with HG. That might help you to get a better grounding within yourself. In conclusion, you could also be someone with no filter, who likes to provoke – if that is the case – my first comment stands.

          6. annaamel says:

            DB, I want to thank you for writing another response to WN. We know those who’ve grown up with a narcissistic parent – a narcissistic mother, no less, who is meant to be the source of unconditional love and acceptance – that accute sensitivity to rejection is likely to be an outcome. While codependents develop management strategies to reduce the chance of rejection (to avoid those awful feelings) other schools are less likely to do that and more likely to create walls or barriers to self protect, which may go down and up as they sense those unpleasant feelings encroaching. Barriers can include going on the offensive (‘the best defence’ and all that) as well as pulling in emotions (including preparedness to feel empathy for others) as a way to keep the self protected. Your longer post to WN showed her you were willing to consider how she might be feeling and you showed her empathy and compassion, which was really nice to read. I recognise you still expressed concern over some of her responses which is understandable but you showed you understood there could be more than one cause of her reactions.

          7. Anna Plyance says:

            “WiserNow, if I misconstrued some of your comments on different threads as being mocking and making fun of others, it was only because of the wording you used and the way that you wrote the comments.” – Textbook classic.

      4. Allison says:

        Jesus. Fuck me running.

      5. Rebecca says:


        At least the stoning would be quicker for all the viewers of the public stoning, the ongoing, cutting comments from you and others is more tedious than anything else. Picking on others just shows bloggers your behaviors and you dig yourself deeper into that hole. Do yourself a favor, do us all a favor and stop kicking this dead horse. It’s dead, leave it, bury it, give it some peace. We’re all humans here, none of us are perfect. We all have that dark side we were born with, just some let it rule and others hold it back. No one is an angel.

        1. TBS says:

          Interesting that you claimed to want to end what you say is a tedious discussion, but in the same breath are unable to resist doing the very thing you claim to have such disdain toward, and attempt to “put me in my place”.
          I do not recall commenting to you or insulting you.
          Unsurprisingly, you fail to see that the “picking on” as you describe it, has 100% come from your side of the discussion.
          We are in agreement however about “revealing” behaviours.
          Also known as .. “give them enough rope”.

          1. Rebecca says:


            I told HG you’d say this exact thing….HG is right, very predictable behavior indeed…..blame shifting at its finest….check mark…I commented to you because you were picking on AspEmp and all anyone has to do is look at the before comments to see that….and I’m sure HG, can point out your behaviors….I don’t need to do that, they’re plain to see here.

          2. TBS says:

            Really? .. .. .. The stench of desperation is strong.
            AE insulted me without prior discourse by announcing a derogatory meaning for my acronym TBS.
            I responded.

          3. TBS says:

            What amount of time involved in this blog constitutes a newcomer from your perspective?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Less than a year.

        2. annaamel says:

          Hi WN,

          I know I’m stating the obvious here but I’m going to say it anyway. This is a blog run by a narcissist and that narcissist has a group of very loyal supporters (who might be considered a coterie) and that is exactly how the narcissistic/empath dynamic works and it’s in place for a reason: it satisfies both the empath and the narcissist. HG wants that coterie in place. Having very loyal supporters makes things easier for a narcissist.

          I used to think I was in the coterie merely because I was a participator on the blog – I thought that was enough to put me into the that group. But when I asked about the blog coterie HG said that not all readers are part of it. Checking the criteria I saw that I didn’t meet the majority of them. I read his anecdotes and laugh when he says something funny. But that’s probably it. I’m not a loyal, reliable supporter. I was pleased to find out I wasn’t in the coterie because I don’t want to be in it. I think you you don’t want to be either.

          What this means is that some of us will always be a bit on the outer. And we may challenge at times and we’ll receive a corrective devaluation because this is also how the dynamic works. I’ve been here for more than a year now, trying to understand how the blog functions, how the relationships function. I read over old threads going back to 2015 and I do think I’ve learnt a lot and it’s been very interesting.

          You should be here, you should participate, because you’ve experienced abuse from your narcissistic mother and were not sufficiently protected in by your empath father. You’re exactly who would benefit from the discussions here. I hear it said on the blog how everyone’s on their own journey and we need to be understanding of where they are at and how that affects their reactions and frustrations and feelings and as I see it, you’re on yours as well. I like that you’ll say things others would not say, and that you try to have an independent perspective.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            What you and WN (who does this repeatedly) gloss over and in so doing you invalidate people, is the fact that people actually agree with me simply because they agree with me. It is not to do with coterie membership. WN´s default setting is, if you agree with HG you are in his coterie, rather than taking the time to understand that people form their views irrespective of the issue of a coterie. However if someone disagrees with her and agrees with me, out comes the tiresome “you’re in the coterie (or words to that effect” response. Take Narcangel for example, she supports much of my work and has done so for several years being a longstanding member of the blog, but she has also criticised me and disagreed with me. She gets an unfair press at times but she, like many people, is capable of forming a view based on their perspective and the information and not slavish devotion. Everybody here has an independent perspective, but if you agree with me, you are deemed not to be independent. That is high-handed and invalidates people.

            Ask yourself why are people loyal to me? Because I bribe them? Because I threaten them? Because I flatter them? Because I frighten them? No. You will not see any evidence of those devices to foster loyalty. People are loyal to me because the efficacy and accuracy of my work has helped them and they are grateful. They are loyal because they recognise the prodigious amount of work that goes into the creation of my material and they appreciate that. They are loyal because I am courteous to people and answer their questions. They are loyal because I have enabled them to achieve freedom through my work. They are loyal because I inform and entertain. You presuppose that because people are empathic they just fall into being coterie membership, it does not work like that. It is not because they are a coterie, I earned their loyalty.

            You confuse being corrected with a corrective devaluation. I explain why people are wrong, I am not gratuitous in doing so, but certain individuals because they cannot stand being corrected adopt the “you are picking on me”, “you are devaluing me” pity play. I have seen it happen previously and it is glaring. I repeatedly explain that if they think my simple correction of them was a devaluation, they have not been paying attention. Nobody on this blog has ever been exposed to the full force of my devaluing behaviour.

            I do not need a coterie on this blog because it is very easy for me to control this place without one.

          2. TBS says:

            There’s a fair bit to unpack in your response to Annaamel & WN.
            Immediately I am inclined to refer to your post today where I read about your thoughts on “Support Forum Fraud (SFF)” .. but in place of that I couldn’t help but also apply another type of SFF, i.e. Support Forum Follower.
            That article is an interesting read in and of itself, but especially so when applied to the above alternative “SFF behaviours” which have similar scenarios &/or criteria.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I’ve already eaten thank you.

          4. TBS says:

            You aremaybe demonstrating the point being made, (in more ways than one).
            Which was not my intention.

          5. TBS says:

            I’m interested to understand the reason for tonight’s flurry of replies to your bloggers’ comments/questions .. most of which date back to over a month ago,

          6. HG Tudor says:

            I had a big win on the bingo and was able to pay HG (Morning) and HG (Night watch) double time to help me address the backlog of comments.

          7. Leigh says:

            Ha! I thought this comment was hysterical!

          8. TBS says:

            Not particularly funny, or convincing.
            Could we discuss the “SFF” concept that you highlighted in your post today instead?

          9. HG Tudor says:

            It amused me.

            You are a newcomer therefore you would have otherwise have known this. I have a limited amount of time to address the blog. I have explained previously and also in the rules that I aim to let shorter comments through as they are faster to deal with. This means longer comments and ones with questions take longer to moderate and they can sometimes sit in moderation for some time. Established users are aware of this. After a period of time, I may have opportunity to “blitz” these parked comments and reduce the queue. It all depends on my commitments and available time. In some instances I am not in a position to provide an answer and a comment is now answered, simply based on time.

          10. TBS says:

            That particular query was not due to any “perceived” inexperience of my participation on your blog.
            To think so would be a mistake.
            I had a specific reason for asking that question.
            I’m off to bed now, catch you tomorrow.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Your query was based on inexperience. If you were an experienced attendee on the blog you would have understood the situation concerning comments and therefore not needed to ask.

          12. Duchessbea says:

            annaamel, with the greatest of respect, I don’t think you understand the basis of HG’s blog. It is not a popularity blog, there is no coterie, there very much are narcs floating about, and in some cases some people who are narcs but think they are empaths, but it is in no way a blog in support of narcissism. HG is the best of his kind and his work is invaluable. The gratefulness to HG of the thousands of people who have relied, depended and awakened from his work. This is also a support network for empaths. Everyone gives an opinion, you can have a discussion with HG, and you will have people who agree and disagree. To say we are all apart of HG’s coterie because we agree with everything he says – that is not true. I have not seen a forum quite like HG’s and there is no blog or yt channel out there to equal HG’s. I said it before and I will say it again – HG is the best.

          13. annaamel says:

            ‘annaamel, with the greatest of respect, I don’t think you understand the basis of HG’s blog. ‘

            I do value you adding the preface there, Thank-you DB.

            ‘It is not a popularity blog, there is no coterie, there very much are narcs floating about, and in some cases some people who are narcs but think they are empaths, but it is in no way a blog in support of narcissism.’

            I agree there are narcissists on the board on occasion, but I also see people being accused of being narcissists (usually indirectly but not always) who are not narcissists, who’ve done detectors and been given empath classifications. Myself included. Most of these people would probably have a good dose of super, because that school brings with it more narcissistic traits and behaviours. But I still think it’s highly inappropriate to insinuate someone is a narcissist on the blog, and even more so if they’ve stated they are HG confirmed empaths.

            I didn’t say or suggest this blog is supportive of narcissism. I said it was a blog run by a narcissist, and the blog will ultimately operate according to his preferences.

            ‘HG is the best of his kind and his work is invaluable.’

            I agree his work has a lot of value.

            Do you mean he the best narcissist. Or the best at providing information on narcissism (or the best support for those entangled with narcissists?) I’d rank narcissists on how well they can limit the negative effects of their narcissism on others. I think there are many who provide valuable information about narcissism, each with a slightly different approach. I think HG’s information (and his classifications especially) is very strong. I’d think his consultations would be very useful and there are many testimonials to this.

            ‘The gratefulness to HG of the thousands of people who have relied, depended and awakened from his work.’

            I know there are many who feel gratitude for his insights into themselves, the narcissists in their lives and narcissists in general.

            ‘This is also a support network for empaths.’

            And it’s generally an incredibly supportive environment, I agree.

            ‘Everyone gives an opinion, you can have a discussion with HG, and you will have people who agree and disagree.’

            Everyone can give an opinion. HG will get involved in discussions. There are agreements and disagreements.

            ‘To say we are all apart of HG’s coterie because we agree with everything he says – that is not true.’

            I didn’t say that everyone who agrees with HG is part of a coterie. I said narcissists have coteries (and I’ll add intentionally or intentionally) and there are a list of behaviours those in the coterie exhibit. Unwavering support is one of these. Any reader can check the posts on the coterie (the narcissists’ army) and see whether they match those requirements. People can and will make their own choices about what feels most comfortable or suitable to them.

            I have not seen a forum quite like HG’s and there is no blog or yt channel out there to equal HG’s.’

            I haven’t been on a forum like this (although I was on one in the past that was similar until poor management caused it to crash and burn) and it’s got a huge number of pluses, I agree.

            ‘I said it before and I will say it again – HG is the best.’

            I appreciate your response, DB.

          14. Anna Plyance says:

            Dear HG,
            the issue of people mistaking a correction for a corrective devaluation might not so easily go away. As you say, “nobody on this blog has ever been exposed to the full force of my devaluing behaviour”, so nobody actually knows how far removed one is from the other (even if the rules allowed it, a demonstration here could never give the full effect of a real devaluation).
            I also get the impression that language is a contributing factor. Now brace yourself, please, for some criticism. You are ususally extremely direct, which is very helpful for clarity and efficiency, but it can be mistaken for harshness, and written communication is even more susceptible to this. We are geared towards expecting that extra bit of “fluffiness”, especially when being corrected, that softens the blow. As I said before, it’s the qualifiers, adjectives etc. Without those, it really is black and white with nothing in between. So when somebody writes: “You are wrong in stating 1+1=11”, you can expect that to be processed by some people – due to our upbringing it will be mainly women – as “You are a complete moron”. To avoid this we could use a program or something akin to 3-D glasses that turns the first sentence into “I completely agree with your brilliant statement there, except for this one little thing, but I am sure I must have read that wrong. Just to be sure, maybe you could check if 1+1=11 is really what you wanted to say.” Since you do not have the time for such “babysitting”, these misunderstandings will probably continue to occur.

          15. HG Tudor says:

            Then that is your problem and not mine, isn’t it?

          16. Leigh says:

            Hi AP,
            Mr. Tudor has corrected me on several occasions. In fact, he just corrected me again about two weeks ago on his Pain article. I’ve never interpreted a correction as a corrective devaluation. Mr. Tudor is my teacher. I’m here to learn. I want his corrections. If he didn’t correct me, that would be more troubling to me.

            Mr. Tudor is an immense source of knowledge. Why wouldn’t anyone want to be corrected so they get the most out of their learning experience here?

            I agree with Mr. Tudor. If someone is misunderstanding him, that’s there problem, not his.

          17. HG Tudor says:

            This is the constructive approach and I endorse it.

            I do not have the time or inclination to sugar coat my corrections. Indeed, for many people if I did, it would not help them.

          18. Anna Plyance says:

            It becomes your problem, too, HG, because you have the pleasure of dealing with the “pity plays” and complaints afterwards. You might even end up needing more time to deal with follow-up comments than it might otherwise have taken.

          19. HG Tudor says:

            No it isn’t, because I recognise that when you run a blog you have comments to moderate, it goes with the territory and ultimately I can choose not to respond to the whinging and often I don’t so it’s not a problem for me.

          20. Anna Plyance says:

            Nobody is asking you to sugarcoat anything. I am just reminding you what can happen when you and parts of your audience effectively speak two different languages.

          21. HG Tudor says:

            That’s why they’re here, to understand the language of the narcissist, hence Knowing the Narcissist. Your reminder is redundant.

          22. Anna Plyance says:

            Two is one and one is none.

          23. Anna Plyance says:

            This is not “the constructive approach”, it is making baseless assumptions verging on lies. At no point have I stated or implied you should stop correcting people. To paraphrase: But if someone is misunderstanding me, that is THEIR problem, not mine.

          24. TBS says:

            Again, for want of a better area on this blog to reply:

            HG says: “That’s why they’re .. [bloggers/followers are] here, to understand the language of the narcissist, hence Knowing the Narcissist. Your [Anna Plyance’s] reminder is redundant.”

            I say:
            It’s clear several of your followers DO NOT even begin to understand the “language” of the narcissist .. these are followers, who want to understand narcissism and do so to various extents, but they importantly also want to show you how much they appreciate you.

            There’s nothing wrong with that, but this approach shouldn’t be confused by anyone reading or engaging in these discussions, with the objective, informed, and experienced commentary and/or support that is actually needed to increase the understanding, mental health and well-being of those interacting or having to continue to deal with a narcissist.

        3. annaamel says:

          Rebecca, i think we all have comments we prefer and comments we find not as much to our liking. We can’t all have the same tastes. Some readers might like particular types of posts and exchanges and others would find those same posts frustrating or tedious or indulgent. And I’d expect it would work the other way around as well.

          1. TBS says:

            For want of finding an appropriate “reply” option, I have responded here.

            HI ANNA PLYANCE:
            The recent and patent pity play by a certain blogger that followed some discourse between her and I was STARK.
            HG’s recent blog article about Support Forum FRAUDS (and my thoughts related to Support Forum FOLLOWERS) is relevant and compelling.
            There is a lot of red herring & straw man responses to cogent arguments being put forward in this blog.
            People engaging with narcissists can and do run themselves ragged dealing with this narcissistic approach to a discussion and/or disagreement .. but it is NEVER appropriate or fair.
            The narcissist will never say “uncle” nor will they give an inch.

            It is enlightening to see that so many on the blog do not understand the difference between a “correction” and a “corrective devaluation”.
            These two behaviours being entirely different from one another.

            At the start of this debate about this blog’s followers, I mentioned that some of HG’s retorts and responses were of the “corrective devaluation” type, and that several HG followers are extremely keen to convey their allegiance and support of this type of HG response.

            Everyone, including HG, appears content to run with the false premise that when HG simply “corrects” his followers (i.e. disagrees, or points out why they are incorrect), that this is actually the same as a “corrective devaluation”. Which, of course, it is not.

            Correcting or disagreeing with another person has NOTHING to do with a narcissist’s application of a corrective devaluation.
            A corrective devaluation has NOTHING to do with simply correcting another’s belief, or opinion.
            A corrective devaluation has EVERYTHING to do with comments or behaviour by a narcissist that is designed specifically to “devalue” due to being challenged by someone from his/her fuel matrix (i.e. they dismiss, discount, ridicule, poke fun at, ignore, scorn, put down, undermine, emotionally abuse, psychologically abuse, physically abuse) .. feel free to add to this list.
            The reason that followers click “like” to this type of unhelpful response from HG is not so much to show disagreement with the maligned commenter, but to demonstrate to HG their unrelenting (oblivious) agreement with EVERYTHING that he puts out.
            Which in the real world, is not possible.

        4. annaamel says:

          I might just mention, too, given all this discussion on stonings, that literal stonings are not particularly quick. There can even be stipulations about stone size to avoid any big stone causing immediate death. It’s murder by an accumulation of small blows. Definitely not more merciful than a figurative stoning. All stoning is bad.

          1. Rebecca says:

            My point is a stoning won’t last weeks at a time , will they??? No, but this word battle has been going on for weeks…..a stoning would never last weeks……my point there….logic wins.

          2. Rebecca says:


            I also like to add that even beheadings weren’t always quick. I believe one of the Henry VIII’ s wives beheading wasn’t quick…..I won’t go into detail, but I’m sure HG knows who I’m talking about and why I’m not going into detail here.. It woukd be quicker way to go, granted the executioner had good aim and strong strike, otherwise it would be more painful than a stoning, no matter how much quicker it was, the pain woukd be greater and a smaller amount of time. How people didn’t get traumatized by watching such things, I don’t know.

          3. Anna Plyance says:

            Sorry for dwelling on this topic, but if you limit stone size you also make it impossible to determine which stone or person was the one to cause death and no single person can be held accountable, nobody is responsible, each and every one of those throwing stones can plausibly deny culpability without troubling their conscience too much. Very convenient.

          4. Isabelle says:

            Hello annaamel,
            You wrote to AV: “What you don’t seem to realise AV, is that you are making unpleasant comments, reacting poorly and being condescending. You seem to see yourself as a victim who is suffering due to the behaviour of others on the blog. You’ve even stated you don’t feel safe on the blog anymore.
            From my perspective you’ve been the person who has been nasty and insulting. You think you’re the one on the receiving end of bad behaviour. You’re not. No one has treated you unkindly.”

            Now, I know that AV can defend herself, but there are some comments I can’t just read and shrug off. Yours is one example.
            Of course, I haven’t read all of AV’s comments, but from what I have read – and she’s been around as long as I have, i.e about 3 and a half years – she simply isn’t condescending, unpleasant, nasty, or the kind to play the victim. Or, show me comments where she has been; and if you are referring to the comment(s) you are replying to, well, I do not view them as you have described, which indicates that how we “read” comments is a reflection on how we feel at that moment.

            My aim here is not to defend AV, or jump to the rescue of a “buddy” (we have “talked” AV and me, but not so much, and not in a while), but because there seems to be something in the air over the past few months: I have noticed in real life and online (I was in touch with others in a different group, online, till recently), and this includes here, some really aggressive exchanges between some people. It accounts for the fact I have been commenting less, and only asking innocuous questions to HG for instance, on the “questioning me” thread. I will make an exception here.
            I just wanted to say that hard as I may find it to do so with some people here too, I try to bear in mind that we are all doing our best in life. Online conversations are really fraught with misunderstandings. It is well known that sitting alone behind a screen, anonymously, will allow some people to be more agressive than they are in real life (I know some of them in person, where I live – not from this blog). It might actually reflect what they truly harbour inside of them, and to me, their agressiveness tells a lot about how they feel with themselves – that is, not very happy, to put it mildly. Some turn the anger against themselves, others against the outside world.

            So those of you who are being agressive on here, pouring scorn on commenters’ behaviours and on HG in the same breath (calling them subservient followers of a guru, for instance), or calling nasty and condescending someone who is only telling how she feels, like AV, maybe take some time to look inward. People who are happy, at peace with themselves, simply don’t attack or even nag others. I wish you all the best.

          5. Candied Pansy says:

            I’m not always opposed to the Californian version of getting stoned. 🙂

          6. WiserNow says:


            Thank God we have moved on from biblical times, hey?

          7. A Victor says:

            Thank you for your kind words about me in your comment to Annaamel. I appreciate both that you know I can defend myself and that you did speak of me as you did. Also, that the blog has been different for a while, much less joyful and more contentious than I’ve seen before. It has made me very sad to see this and I fear we may have lost some over it. I hope they will return at some point, if they need to. Anyway, thank you, your comment is uplifting to me. – AV

          8. annaamel says:

            Of course, I haven’t read all of AV’s comments, but from what I have read – and she’s been around as long as I have, i.e about 3 and a half years – she simply isn’t condescending, unpleasant, nasty, or the kind to play the victim. Or, show me comments where she has been;’

            Hi Isabelle. I understand you know AV better than you know me as I’ve only been here for the last year and in that time you’ve not frequented the blog as much. I will give you examples and you can read the discussions around those comments and if you believe I have been the unkind commenter then let me know. I’m trying to be objective.



          9. Leigh says:

            I ask again, do you not see how condescending you are in your comments? Both those responses came because you were trying to school her. Your comments to her were patronizing and condescending. If you’re going to continue to school people who don’t want or need to be schooled by you, then you need to prepare yourself for how people are going to react.

            I know you can defend yourself and fight your own battles. I’m just tired of people thinking they’re being helpful when they’re actually being hurtful.

          10. A Victor says:

            Hi Leigh, thank you, I am tired of this also. And I absolutely don’t understand it.

          11. TBS says:

            A very sensible, fair and transparent approach .. to take the time to locate and publish the “actual” evidence.

          12. Isabelle says:

            Hello annaamel,
            And hello AV: sorry I am going to talk about you too, but very much with you reading in mind, not pretending you are not there 🙂

            Replying here to your post with the links to other discussions between you and AV.

            After reading carefully, what I see looks like the sort of typical misunderstanding that can arise in online conversations. Your and AV’s comments, from my point of view, are direct reflections of your personal state of mind/mood as you wrote, sprinkled by what I perceive as cultural misunderstanding (sorry if I am assuming that you are not from the same country).

            I will give an example around the Z and covid posts by Leela: I can see that you are trying to put across a point that you deem essential, I can see it is very important to you and that you are genuinely shocked by Leela’s views, so you decide to bring more infomation in your reply to AV to support your reaction. The thing is, I can also see why AV would view it as preaching, or lecturing. I agree with AV when she tells you if Leela’s comment has been published by HG, then it might be a bit too much to lecture Leela about how to use HG’s blog. This is where I see the cultural rift between the two of you, but I may be totally off the mark.
            In a nutshell, I do not think you were being arrogant, just genuinely trying to make people see the light, or “your” light – I too can be like this in real life, hehe! But reading this from the outside, I can see how it can come across as a preachy lecture.

            The other discussion around AV recounting how she felt when HG didn’t reply to her once, is more surprising to me, but similar in one way: the misunderstanding that comes with online discussions. You were trying to be supportive of AV, not treating her as an idiot, but this time it looks like what you wrote hit AV in a painful place, whereas you simply could not have foreseen that. Her reaction really belongs to her – again, online “conversation”: reading your comment on her own, unable to ask you for precisions, unable to see your face and hear the tone of your voice, something flares up in her and causes a reaction because it remains too painful for her to question her reaction. Again: AV, I can relate to that, I am not judging you. In fact, as they say: “if you see it, you’ve got it” so I am in no position to judge.

            This is my honest view of your exchanges, annaamel and AV. I have tried to be objective.

            Most of us, especially online, speak from what we have experienced before, and the negative experiences, if not totally worked out and healed, tend to boomerang and come out as unpleasant words in our comments.
            It is not easy, but we can see it as an opportunity to work out our fears, and hurt.

            Hope this has helped you annamel. I wish you and AV all the best.

          13. annaamel says:

            Hi Isabelle.

            Thank-you for your response to my comment. I have no issue with it at all – it was objective and considerate – and am grateful for your input.

            “I see looks like the sort of typical misunderstanding that can arise in online conversations. Your and AV’s comments, from my point of view, are direct reflections of your personal state of mind/mood as you wrote, sprinkled by what I perceive as cultural misunderstanding (sorry if I am assuming that you are not from the same country).”

            Not the same, just similar countries, Isabelle. I am Australian (and while I am forthright and there is a perception of Australians as being more forthright and direct, not all Australians are). AV, I believe, is from the US.

            ‘I will give an example around the Z and covid posts by Leela: I can see that you are trying to put across a point that you deem essential, I can see it is very important to you’

            Important enough for me to raise the issue with her, yes.

            ‘and that you are genuinely shocked by Leela’s views’

            I was a bit shocked when she first started using this avatar this year but I have since understood that Leela has a few opinions that differ from mine (although we also agree on some things), and I know she has her own strong opinion on global issues and it’s based on frustration at the actions of particular world leaders. However I also know she is an empathetic person overall, so I wanted to highlight the potential hurt that could be felt by people who may see the symbol differently to her.

            “so you decide to bring more information in your reply to AV to support your reaction.”

            Once AV involved herself in the conversation and suggested the world was free and she hadn’t been undermined, I responded to those two points.

            ‘The thing is, I can also see why AV would view it as preaching, or lecturing.’

            I accept that AV saw it as preaching or lecturing. I think AV also saw my earlier June post as lecturing or preaching. What i am coming to understand is that AV and some others see many of my posts as lecturing and they do not like lecturing which could be why we are having problems seeing eye to eye at the moment.

            ‘I agree with AV when she tells you if Leela’s comment has been published by HG, then it might be a bit too much to lecture Leela about how to use HG’s blog.’

            I didn’t consider myself to be telling Leela how to use HG’s blog, though I understand the point you are making and how it was read that way. But HG also allows and even encourages strong opinions and recommends readers accepting robust replies to those opinions. I don’t have an issue with robust replies to my comments if they are respectful (which would means avoiding rhetorical questions, sarcasm etc). I am fine with directness, and honesty, even if that involves criticism or challenge or pointing out something I may not have realised. HG had the option of not posting my comment to Leela but he did so, which suggests not only is he allowing Leela’s posts and avatar choice but he is allowing my responses to it.

            ‘This is where I see the cultural rift between the two of you, but I may be totally off the mark.”

            There may be cultural influences but it may also be personality and what we each prefer and how we engage with others. I don’t know if one style or another is the best – it may be personal preference. AV and I may have very different preferences in how we use the blog, what we get from the blog, how we respond (or don’t respond to people) and what’s appropriate and what’s not.

            “In a nutshell, I do not think you were being arrogant, just genuinely trying to make people see the light, or “your” light –”

            I appreciate you saying that, thank-you. Especially as you have clearly tried to look at this discussion very objectively and pointed out how my comments could be interpreted.

            “I too can be like this in real life, hehe! But reading this from the outside, I can see how it can come across as a preachy lecture.”

            I accept this.

            “The other discussion around AV recounting how she felt when HG didn’t reply to her once, is more surprising to me,”

            I was very surprised when I first read it.

            ‘but similar in one way: the misunderstanding that comes with online discussions. You were trying to be supportive of AV, not treating her as an idiot, but this time it looks like what you wrote hit AV in a painful place, whereas you simply could not have foreseen that.”

            I agree with you on all counts here. I was trying to be supportive. I hadn’t had any thoughts of treating her as an idiot. She reacted as if she’d been hurt by my comment (suggesting it got her in a painful place) and I could not have foreseen that. I saw it like that at the time. I tried to explain how she’d interpreted it in a way I hadn’t meant it (and she had even acknowledged I had meant well) but she was by then feeling too disappointed or hurt by my post to engage with my reply and was more frustrated that I had seemed not to engage with her criticisms.

            (I realise. too, I am doing two things which are less than ideal – talking about AV in the third person and commenting on a discussion I said I would not bring up again)

            ‘Her reaction really belongs to her – again, online “conversation”: reading your comment on her own, unable to ask you for precisions, unable to see your face and hear the tone of your voice, something flares up in her and causes a reaction because it remains too painful for her to question her reaction.’

            I understand your explanation, Isabelle. I know intellectually what you mean. I still found it hurtful to read at the time though.

            ‘This is my honest view of your exchanges, annaamel and AV. I have tried to be objective.”

            I think you have been extremely objective and I could not have asked for more, Isabelle. Thankyou very much for the time you spent on looking over those conversations and writing your thoughts.

          14. A Victor says:

            Hi Isabelle,
            I hope you find this as I had to go pretty far to find an opportunity to reply. I want to thank you for what I consider to be a very objective and thoughtful assessment of what transpired between Annaamel and myself in those two instances.

            I really appreciate your words as they have shown me how easy it is to misconstrue things online. I will be taking that into consideration going forward. I appreciate it a lot.

          15. Leigh says:

            Hi AA,
            I hope you find this reply. This thread is a mess.

            I don’t think I explained myself thoroughly. In those to comments to AV, you were trying to school her. I the first comment, AV & Rebecca were having a conversation about Mr. Tudor. You came in and tried to explain why Mr. Tudor did what he did. In the comment about Leela’s avatar, you tried to explain to AV about why the Z was offensive.

            This is something you do on a regular basis. You have this need to explain to people whats going on as if they can’t figure it out themselves. What you don’t realize, is that by explaining, you infer that people can’t understand. At least that’s the way it looks to me.

          16. annaamel says:

            ‘Hi AA,
            I hope you find this reply. This thread is a mess.’

            It is hard to navigate, Leigh, I agree.

            ‘I don’t think I explained myself thoroughly. In those to comments to AV, you were trying to school her.’

            I did understand what you were suggesting about schooling.

            ‘I the first comment, AV & Rebecca were having a conversation about Mr. Tudor. You came in and tried to explain why Mr. Tudor did what he did.’

            When AV posted that she’d been upset by HG’s lack of response, my Contagion kicked in and her sadness felt palpable to me. I was wondering whether to comment thinking others might do so as we have many compassionate readers here. Rebecca responded but it looked to me like she’d talked about herself rather than acknowledging AV’s sadness.

            I decided I’d comment to try to help her see the situation as less of a comment on her personally (which seemed to be the way it was hitting her) and more as part of HG’s general pattern and more to do with him and not her.

            I didn’t see it as a conversation between AV and Rebecca that I inserted myself into. I saw it as a post by AV that could be responded to – R just happened to post her reply first.

            I saw later, of course, that the reply Rebecca submitted was much more the type of reply AV wanted, while mine felt offensive.

            I understand your point that by explaining I’m implying others don’t understand (and possibly even implying they are not capable of understanding).

            ‘In the comment about Leela’s avatar, you tried to explain to AV about why the Z was offensive.’

            That’s is true.

            ‘This is something you do on a regular basis. You have this need to explain to people whats going on as if they can’t figure it out themselves. What you don’t realize, is that by explaining, you infer that people can’t understand. At least that’s the way it looks to me.’

            I understand your point. Thankyou for clarifying, Leigh.

          17. Leigh says:

            Do you mind telling me your age range? 20, 30s, 40s? Maybe it’s an age difference and not a cultural difference that’s contributing to some of us misunderstanding you.

          18. Rebecca says:

            Hi Annaabel,

            I wanted to respond to your comment from 08/19/23 @ 22:48 you typed, “Rebecca responded but it looked to me like she’d talked about herself rather than acknowledging AV’s sadness”
            I just wanted to clarify that AV and I have had several conversations on this blog, we relate to each other on here from having similar family dynamics from having a narc parent and dealing with narc children, I have stepkids who are narcs, one HG has confirmed through a narc detector. AV understands where I come from and I understand her.
            When I gave AV my story, it was to convey to her how much I understood her feelings and what she was going through because I went through and have felt the same as her. My story , my personal example was me giving her understanding and support. AV understands that and she gets what I was doing. Talking about my story isn’t me just talking about myself. I wanted you to understand that about me. I’m not a selfish person, despite what my narcissist mother would tell me. I wasn’t a selfish child and I’m not a selfish adult. HG has confirmed my “empath status” not once, but three times I have taken the Empath Detector. I have my reasons for doing it three times, if I’m lying, which I’m not….HG can call me a liar, if I’m lying here….I hope it clears up things.

          19. Isabelle says:

            Hello annaamel,

            Thank you for your reply to my comment. You are right when you say that HG published your reply to Leela just like he published Leela’s comment.
            Right also to point out that responses are more individual than representative of the culture/country we live in. It’s just that there are broad trends too which can add a layer.

            On a more general note: the online discussions that I mentioned being a part of were not on a blog, and had nothing to do with narcissism. It was an association, let’s say, whose members could actually meet in monthly meetings if they wanted to. But many had never met in person, and I noticed that there was more aggressiveness between those people.
            However, the aim of this blog is totally different from the other discussion group I experienced, and I wish to emphasize that HG’s blog is a fantastic opportunity not only to learn about narcissism and “vent our spleen” about our experiences with narcissists in our lives, but also to learn about ourselves in the way we react to others’ comments. I have learnt an awful lot and am still learning a lot just from reading comments too. I have chosen to steer clear of arguments (well, mostly) because I have had some in real life with that other group I mentioned over the past year, mostly in real life. So I need a bit of respite. Yet my responding this time might be a sign that I am ready to go into battle again?

            As Truthseeker stated in a recent comment (hello TS!), I may sound like an unquestioning follower of HG and therefore stupid to some, especially one (not you annaamel) currently trying to explain we understand not much at narcissism contrary to what we think, but I really don’t give a fiddler’s fart. I owe so MUCH to this blog and many commenters who have been around for a few years, and to HG of course. I was a wreck when I arrived here, I have come a long way since then thanks to HG, and to his blog and other readers, most of whom are incredibly supportive.
            And videos, of course. But this blog is a special place.

            It’s been good to get to “know” you a little bit more annaamel.

          20. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hello back Isabelle 🙂 xx

          21. annaamel says:

            ‘AA, Do you mind telling me your age range? 20, 30s, 40s? Maybe it’s an age difference and not a cultural difference that’s contributing to some of us misunderstanding you.’

            Leigh, I’m in my mid fifties.

          22. Leigh says:

            Hi AA,
            Do you mind if I ask some more personal questions? In the interest of time I will ask them now but if you’re not comfortable then don’t respond.

            I’ve seen you say you’re not ensnared. Are you married? Have you ever been ensnared? What about your parents? Do you think you’re an ACON? I’m also curious, what brought you to the blog?

        5. TBS says:

          You claim to want to end what you say is a tedious discussion, but in the same breath cannot resist doing the very thing you say you have such disdain for, and attempt to “put me in my place”.
          I do not recall commenting to you or insulting you.
          Unsurprisingly, you fail to see that the “picking on”, as you describe it, has 100% come from your side of the discussion.
          We are in agreement however about “revealing” behaviours.
          Also known as .. “give them enough rope”.

        6. A Victor says:

          Hi Rebecca,
          There are those here who want controversy, or anything good, bad or otherwise that pertains to their words. It is the continuing attention they receive that drives them. I know you are aware already, I hesitate to even write this because I know you already know. Literal NC is the best, quickest way to resolve it. Sometimes, when another goads, it can be very difficult to do though. But as always, good for our learning.

          On a side note, I have realized that I don’t always like who I am here, on the blog, especially lately. In the past in my life, when people were rude, condescending, judgemental etc, I simply avoided them, most of them anyway. Here I’ve taken to speaking back to them, I don’t need to do that, it doesn’t do anything except to diminish me, even if only in my own eyes. They are already visible once they have done something that I wish to speak back to. I can go back to walking away and not think less of myself because I chose not to react to them. And now, I have the knowledge to not be ensnared by the romantic ones, thank you so much HG. These others are but pests, whether narc, narcissistic or normal, or even other empaths who are pompous, though I tend to believe that is an oxymoron. Maybe they are experiencing eroded empathy in such a case. Either way, I don’t have to engage and allow myself to be brought to their level or involved in their games. I realized this last night when reading a comment I recently wrote, it didn’t sit well, it’s not who I am, the people who goad are literally not worth my time.

          And on another side note, many good things happening in my life right now, it’s busy and exciting and fun. It wouldn’t be this way without the good I have learned here, I’m going to stick with the good and let the rest go, it is just waste anyway.

          I hope all is well with you Rebecca, I think of you often and hope this, you are one of the ones here that are definitely valuable to me and one I enjoy spending time chatting and learning with!

          1. annaamel says:

            ‘ In the past in my life, when people were rude, condescending, judgemental etc, I simply avoided them, most of them anyway. Here I’ve taken to speaking back to them, I don’t need to do that, it doesn’t do anything except to diminish me, even if only in my own eyes. They are already visible once they have done something that I wish to speak back to. I can go back to walking away and not think less of myself because I chose not to react to them…..These others are but pests, whether narc, narcissistic or normal, or even other empaths who are pompous, though I tend to believe that is an oxymoron. Maybe they are experiencing eroded empathy in such a case. Either way, I don’t have to engage and allow myself to be brought to their level or involved in their games…the people who goad are literally not worth my time.’

            What you don’t seem to realise AV, is that you are making unpleasant comments, reacting poorly and being condescending. You seem to see yourself as a victim who is suffering due to the behaviour of others on the blog. You’ve even stated you don’t feel safe on the blog anymore.

            From my perspective you’ve been the person who has been nasty and insulting. You think you’re the one on the receiving end of bad behaviour. You’re not. No one has treated you unkindly.

          2. Leigh says:

            Do you not see how you can come off as condescending? That can be very off-putting. You charged onto the blog like a knight to save the day. But guess what, not everyone needs or wants to be saved by you. Not everyone wants to be told by you if they’re doing something wrong. And why do you think its your place to tell them?

          3. A Victor says:

            The reaction my previous comment received is a prime example Rebecca. I will leave it here. Thanks for being here. 💕

          4. Another Cat says:

            I might misunderstand but I believe A Victor only wanted to warn Rebecca, that there are ppl on this blog who seek controversy for the sake of controversy. So Rebecca needn’t take everything said to her (to Rebecca) seriously.

            It was a bold statement by AV but I think many of us has that experience as well.

          5. A Victor says:

            Thank you AC, you are correct as to my intent.

          6. Rebecca says:

            AV and AC,

            Thank you for your advice, you both are right and I’m sorry I got triggered here. I’ve been a bit emotional this weekend, my aunt died on Thursday, so I’m not myself either. I understand what you’re saying here. I’ll let the rest go. Xx

          7. Rebecca says:

            Thank you AV,

            I enjoy learning with you and chatting with you too. Hope you’re enjoying your summer and things are going well for you. Xx

          8. TBS says:

            That is a very simplistic assessment of the dynamic that has taken place.
            Highlighting and/or “attempting” to discuss the hypocrisy and self-indulgent behaviour of others who claim otherwise, may seem controversial to some .. but is definitely not goading.

          9. A Victor says:

            Rebecca, I am so sorry to hear about your aunt. Life events like that do affect us, I hope you’re doing okay. Virtual hugs to you.

          10. Rebecca says:

            Thank you AV,

            She just passed Thursday morning, found out Thursday night and they buried her Sunday afternoon. I didn’t have the time to make plans to be there. I sent flowers, planted a tree in memory of her, what she asked for….and took off of work on Friday. I’m back to work today, no bereavement time for Aunts….I’m grateful I was allowed to take Friday off. I’m doing OK. My dog is snuggling with me a lot, when I’m home and sitting down, he’s on me. He knows how I feel and he’s comforting me. Dogs are so smart that way, from years of domestication and learning our body language and vibes. I’m glad I have him , friends and some family I can reach out to. Thank you for your kind words, your concern and support. Xx

          11. annaamel says:

            ‘Do you not see how you can come off as condescending? That can be very off-putting. You charged onto the blog like a knight to save the day. But guess what, not everyone needs or wants to be saved by you. Not everyone wants to be told by you if they’re doing something wrong. And why do you think its your place to tell them?

            Leigh I’ve never said I’m not or never condescending. I expect I am at times. I also accept I’m not everyone’s cup of tea. I try to do my best to be kind but I have a personality and character and traits, and they will determine my behaviour. I came out as majority Super saviour as my strongest school. I have a strong desire for justice and I stand up for the underdog (or anyone I think is treated unfairly). I know this is not always welcomed. And I am very aware there are posters here who don’t understand or value my approach – because it’s a very different approach to theirs.

            I don’t really consider whether it’s my ‘place’ to ask someone to consider if they’re doing something unfair or unempathic. If I see someone say or do something I consider unfair, I will often speak up. My desire to address the unfairness overrides other concerns. For many people it’s not the case. The desire for comfort and harmony is paramount.

            As it stands, I only entered this thread to try to support WN, who I felt was being treated in an unfair way.

            I’ve been consciously trying to avoid interactions with posters who I believe would not appreciate my input and I will try to put this into greater effect.

          12. Leigh says:

            In the comments to AV you weren’t trying to correct unfairness. She wasn’t being unfair to anyone in her initial comments. What you were doing was trying to school her. Like I said above, if you’re going to school people who don’t need to be schooled, you need to prepare for their reaction. You don’t get to be condescending and patronizing and then expect that person to be kind to you. It doesn’t work that way. Most importantly, you don’t get to sully AV’s name because she responded in a way that you don’t like. That’s not ok either. Every action has a reaction. Your condescension is what caused her reaction. You need to own that.

          13. annaamel says:

            I might misunderstand but I believe A Victor only wanted to warn Rebecca, that there are ppl on this blog who seek controversy for the sake of controversy. So Rebecca needn’t take everything said to her (to Rebecca) seriously.’

            Hi AC. It may be the case that AV was only wanting to warn Rebecca so she didn’t become too affected. I will accept that possibility.

            I replied to Isabelle who also queried my comment to AV, and included links to two conversations. Both those conversations show AV speaking to me in an unkind way. I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to AV unkindly. I asked Isabelle to explain to me if she thought I was interpreting incorrectly and I welcome your feedback as well.

            ‘It was a bold statement by AV but I think many of us has that experience as well.’

            I can understand that this thread, the last page or so of it in particular, has some palpable tension and may not be wholly enjoyable to read.

          14. annaamel says:

            Hi Leigh,

            (apologies in advance to everyone who is labouring through these posts who would prefer to read about other things..)

            ‘In the comments to AV you weren’t trying to correct unfairness. She wasn’t being unfair to anyone in her initial comments. What you were doing was trying to school her.’

            I am assuming you are referring to the comments I highlighted in my post to Isabelle.

            In the June post I had been trying to support AV and show her kindness and compassion. That was not me correcting an unfairness – it was me noticing she had been upset by something and wanting to help her feel better. After AV responded to me in that thread I felt I been unfairly treated so I stood up for myself by clarifying my position.

            In the conversation with Leela, I was standing up for people in the Ukraine whose country has been invaded by an aggressor in Russia and who have suffered the loss of many lives and sometimes brutal treatment by the invading soldiers. I was also considering how others who are sympathetic to the Ukraine and have their own experiences being dominated by Russia feel. I asked Leela to consider that possibility of that being an issue. I didn’t ask her to take it down. My understanding is her complaint is with America, not other countries around Russia. I only responded to AV because she entered the discussion and argued the points I had made.

            I don’t think I have ever defended AV from unfair treatment because I don’t think I have seen her receive it (I have not been reading her posts as closely since June so it’s possible I may have missed examples if they occurred after that time). I have defended you a few times when I have seen comments that I felt were unfair towards you and you have sometimes thanked me but I will respect your feelings that I am out of place and will not do it anymore. I have also challenged you at times. I have defended DB when I have believed she’s been treated unfairly (while also challenging her at other times) and I have defended WiserNow because I think she is treated unfairly at times (though I have also challenged her in other replies). Anna has defended me (and I don’t mind it at all – even if I can also defend myself it’s nice to feel some support).

            I definitely understand your point about ‘trying to school’ people and recognise that what I might see as helpful (sometimes direct) advice can feel like schooling to people. I heard it said once that men tend to give advice when women confess a problem when women just want to be heard and have someone say ‘I understand’. I have always behaved more like men in this kind of scenario. I tend to give advice much more than saying ‘I understand’. I have always found it easier to be friends with men than women socially because in a way I act more like they do than I act like women do.

            I am definitely taking all this feedback on board and am going to be consciously trying to refrain from giving support with advice in it. I can’t guarantee it will always work but you can at least feel better knowing I am going to try. I understand you might want to respond to my explanations above (to correct my errors) and I will try to get back to you if you do so.

  11. Anna says:


    Are incels also narcissists?
    or are they sociopaths?
    Would you write a blog on them?

    1. annaamel says:

      Anna, I’d think incel men who are angry they don’t have a girlfriend and blame society or women in general for their lack of success with women would likely be mid range victim narcissists. But if they’re not angry at women or society and merely very hesitant or shy and that’s why they are having difficulties, I would not expect them to be narcissists.

  12. Asp Emp says:

    Rebecca, RE: your comment:

    I suppose a deaf bat is better than a dead bat 😉 x

    1. Rebecca says:


      Yes, definitely! 😆 I was worried it wasn’t going to find the open door, poor bat was freaking out. I was a bit frantic with trying to get it out without it hurting itself, or me accidentally hurting it.
      I didn’t see it again, probably because it wanted to stay away from the crazy lady. 😆🤪xx

  13. Jasmin (SOTF) says:

    At social media today I saw a post by a woman who wrote that her partner walks 1 meter infront of her and that when she increases the pace he does so aswell. Isn’t it very typical narc behaviour?
    Devaluing the IPPS by leaving them behind and looking for new victims infront of them without the IPPS knowing and also potential new victims not noting the N is accompanied by their/having a partner.

  14. Black Phoenix says:

    Do you like the movie
    What Women Want (2001)?

    It is one of my fav movies… A love story between a very narcissistic man (Mel Gibson) and a blonde Super Empath (Helen Hunt).

    1. HG Tudor says:


  15. DP&Jelly says:

    Hi H.G!

    First- allow me to provide some well deserved tertiary supply & thank you for your incredibly comprehensive & candid work. By no means is my commentary mere flattery- from a resource standpoint, you are truly & exceedingly in a league of your own.

    Question for you that I have seen addressed, albeit not directly. I am a research positive psychologist by trade so have interacted extensively with Cluster B, & particularly NPD more personally. While I had less academic understanding & direct experience during earlier relations – my research tends to focus on manipulation (of varying degrees: media, political, marketing, and ofc interpersonal)

    I’ve had several relationships with narcissistic partners & all have fallen squarely in line with your insights on the topic of Hoover EXCEPT the last two. Both were long term & occurred somewhat consecutively. (You’d think I would diagnose these quicker but it’s much more difficult to decipher & make valid determinations on the personal level)

    As a result of my education it is my tendency to call out, label & offer nothing more than a blanket dismissal when being engaged by manipulation tactics. I’be been known to stick to texts so I can screen grab them, circle the content and add a brief notation of what it is and why it’s meant to be used. upon being discarded from the first relationship (a well known media personality) I did release those exchanges. I received one (unanswered) phone call & was (still am) subsequently blocked from all on his account. That was over 8 years ago. The second, I kept my understanding between us but did become quite apathetic in tact in labeling each in succession as occurred before I did ultimately defy expectation with a snap decision to leave & block all except email correspondence. That said, in both cases there has been NO Hoover. (Admittedly the most recent only ended ~8 mos ago)

    My question- and I’m asking because it only since having begun my education & subsequently altered my approach that has me wondering if perhaps I’ve discovered a means of avoiding the Hoover all together? Not that I intend to link up on an intimate level with any more narcs but surely many people do, and will.

    Interested in your thoughts.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is already a means of avoiding the hoover, it is called a Total No Contact Regimen.

  16. Black Phoenix says:

    Did you ever analyzed Kaley Cuoco?
    Penny is narcissistic 🙂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I habe not analysed her. Penny is a fictional character.

      1. Rebecca says:


        Have you ever analyzed a fictional character, besides the ones from your Christmas Hostages series, and which one was your favorite to analyze and why were they your favorite??

        1. Leigh says:

          Hi Rebecca,
          Did you hear the interview with Julia Friedman? Mr. Tudor analyzed several fictional narcissists in that interview. The interview was very different than his other interviews. He also did a whole analysis on the TV show Big Little Lies.

          Hope you’re well, Rebecca. I don’t care if hope is a false mistress, i still hope for freedom for you.

          1. Rebecca says:

            Hi Leigh,

            I don’t believe I have heard that interview before. I’ll have to check it out. Thanks for the great suggestion. Xx how are you doing?? I’m hanging in there, keeping my options open, in the meantime, I’ve been doing some home improvement projects, keeping busy….I’m definitely still hoping for freedom, it’s a process, when I’m not independently wealthy, financially independent whatever you want to call it…It’s a process and not so easy, as HG has told me, it’s doable, but not easy. I still have hope, otherwise it’d be the plank for me. Xx Keep your head up and your eyes open….forward we go. Xx

          2. Leigh says:

            Hi Rebecca,
            Mr. Tudor has two interviews with her. He talks about the fictional characters in the second interview.

            It’s been 3 years since I learned about my husband’s narcissism. For the first two years, I did a lot of ruminating and took very little action. I’m similar to you. Im not independently wealthy either. At some point, you grow tired. At least that’s what happened to me. I just couldn’t do it anymore. So about a year ago, I opened a savings account in my name only and started to save little by little. I opened a credit card in my name only also. I went and looked at a couple of apartments just to get an idea of what I should expect. For me, I needed to take those small steps because I started to feel despair and I needed to renew my hope. Hope is what drives me forward. Despair debilitates me.

            The pace you’re taking is fine. You’re doing the best you can with the resources you have. Remember the turtle and the hare. It’s ok if we’re the turtle.

            I’m sorry to hear about your Aunt also. May she rest easy.

          3. Rebecca says:

            Hi Leigh,

            I’ve looked at apartments in the area and they’re way too high $1200–1400 a month, in local areas, further North it’s even worse and the areas aren’t the safest being alone…I thought about my lady friend moving back here from NY, but she’s still working things out to move yet. So, I thought, hell, ill keep the house, or try to in the divorce and work things out with the bank…other people have done that and succeeded and I was told the banks help divorcees keep the house. I know MLSOMATIC doesn’t want the responsibility, he ven said he’d rather have a condo and not have a yard. I love gardening… that’s my plan now, keep the house, don’t need an apartment. I might rent out the spare bedroom to a local female student. …to help with cost. It’s the plan I came up with. My NY friend knows some good lawyers too, so I’m planning on looking at lawyers next. I’m moving, hoping and not giving up. Xx

        2. Leigh says:

          Hi Rebecca,
          Its near impossible to find your comment in WordPress so I’m responding here.

          I’m glad your NY friend can help you get a lawyer. If I do say so myself, New Yorkers are awesome! Lol!

          The price of apartments are disgusting! I would imagine that you’re in the same boat as me in that your mortgage is the same or cheaper than the rent these days. It’s nuts!

          I hope your lawyer can help you keep the house. If you have to sell and you get half, will that be sufficient?

          1. Rebecca says:

            Hi Leigh,

            If I can’t keep the house, the lawyer wasn’t worth the money. I hope I can keep the house, I put the down payment on it and paid for the maintenance and upkeep, new appliances etc, in fact the only replacement he paid for was the roof and he’s still paying on it…meanwhile, I bought a new stove. It was my credit that got the roof loan. If I can’t keep the house, I’d be like everyone else, struggling to pay a ridiculously high rent and it’d be like shooting my own feet. I can’t help, but feel that way. At the point, I might as well stay and deal with it, like I’ve done my whole life so far. That’s depressing…..I hope it doesn’t come to that. I think I’d rather jump off a damn bridge, which doesn’t help anything, except make another dumb mistake, after making a big one already. I hope it doesn’t go that way. I hope. Xx We have to hope. ❤️

          2. Rebecca says:

            Hi Leigh,

            Sorry, if my comment sounded grumpy. I was thinking on your question about the house and after rereading, of course after I sent it…🙄….I just thought I’d say sorry, it stressing me out thinking about the house situation and I think my stress comes through in my comment. I think my anxiety is apparent and didn’t want you thinking it’s you. Xx ❤️
            How are things going with you? Hope you’re well. I’m trying to calm down, but my normal setting is buzzing around house fly. 😆 My energy level goes between anxious , somewhat calmer, to sugar buzzed kid level. 🙃 xx

          3. Leigh says:

            Hi Rebecca,
            You never have to apologize to me for venting your frustrations. I completely get it. We’re in the same boat. We made errors in judgment as young adults and its biting us in the ass now.

            Even if you were forced to sell the house and walked away with half, you don’t think you’d be ok? I’m sorry if that’s true. It really is bullshit. I think since you put down the down payment, you’d get that first and then whatever is left is split down the middle.

            How am I? I’m good. I spend my time avoiding him like the plague. I try to keep myself as busy as possible.

            I hope the lawyer gets the house for you. You deserve to be free.

          4. Rebecca says:

            Thank you Leigh,

            With the cost of rent, I’d be worried to lose the house. It’s not paid off yet, so if we were to split it, the bank would get their money first and then I’d get my down payment back, and then the split money for the house. It wouldn’t be enough for another down payment, not the way prices went up and the interest too. I’d have to start all over on payments, mortgages are 15 year loans at the least amount of time, mostly its 30 years …..that makes me want to feel overwhelmed and I think another 30 year loan wouldn’t be worth it. I’d just say, fk it, to owning another house at that point , get one of those RVs and just travel for a while, visit friends across the country, live a little. Fk it, why restrain myself to all the old bs. Do it differently, be different, live. Xx ❤️ ❤️ I like the RV idea. 🥰

          5. Leigh says:

            I’m in similar boat too but I’ve decided to not go after the house. He can have it. I don’t pay the mortgage on the house anyway. Its the only bill I don’t pay. I pay for everything else. He had a very large gambling win in his 20s. It was spread out over 20 years and that’s how he paid the mortgage each year. Now he has to actually work in order to pay it. The mortgage is super low though. What I’ve paid all these years compared to what he’s paid isn’t even close. The hope is if he takes the house, he won’t ask for maintenance or any of my 401k plan. Until I can cash in that 401k, I’ll just walk with my savings. Every time I think about leaving with nothing, I feel a huge knot in my stomach but I have to do it. I agree, the idea of getting a 30 year mortgage now is overwhelming. I may consider buying a little co-op so the mortgage isn’t too high. Without the added expense of him, I should be able to do it.

            I love your idea of an RV too! Get an RV and travel for awhile. Maybe you could pick me up along the way!

          6. Rebecca says:


            I just saw your August 22 comment, didn’t get a notice if it…..😆If I have to do the RV option, you can come with me. 😆 HG would not approve, we’d go straight to the dungeon with the little mice. 😆
            Seriously though, I have been thinking of the RV idea, some of them aren’t the rolling school bus size and are quite nice and comfortable for one person to live in. It would be nice to downsize and travel more and the best part, won’t have as many bills and no narcissist bs to deal with, no toxic family and a lot of my stress just goes away as I drive down the road. The RV option, might be the better option. Who needs a house with all the bills? Not me.
            Hope you’re well. Xx

  17. KitKat says:

    Regarding your experience with aiding people to achieve GOSO, have many carried out a successful regimen with their parents?
    Do you find that navigating other family members complicates matters to the extent that a true GOSO cannot be reached?
    Have you previously provided assistance with designing a strategy for handling end-of-life or estate issues, and to what end?
    Thanks in advance.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, but most adopt an adjusted no contact regimen, rather than total.
      I do not, but people do find dealing with other family members problematic because of the no contact regimen implemented.
      Yes, I have and did so in consultation.

    2. Another Cat says:

      Myself I miss my very nice aunty, but am in contact with her sons, my two cousins.

      If they could swear to never mention me to my extremely clingy and bullying Middle Midrange narcissist mother, then I would be in contact with relatives, but that is not what they want. I respect their decision and have no contact with them. This way they don’t need to lie if she asks them about me.

      1. KitKat says:

        Another Cat, WhoCares, Rebecca, Bubbles, Alison, Asp Emp,
        I hadn’t visited this thread since I first read HG’s answer, and didn’t realize it had been replied to.
        You all took the time to respond to my query with kind, personal, and supportive stories,
        It’s not easy to talk about such sensitive matters, and I very much appreciate you sharing your experiences with me.
        I apologize for the delay in acknowledgment. ❤️

        Does anyone have family members who don’t understand why you’ve gone no contact, or feel that you are being uncaring in doing so?
        Thanks again

        1. Bubbles says:

          Dear KitKat,

        2. Asp Amp says:

          Thank you, KitKat for your acknowledgement, it is much appreciated 🙂 A bit difficult to actually tell a narcissist familial member the reason why you’d gone NC on them. I don’t feel (or think) ‘uncaring’ about it. I’ve accepted it in my case. A friend understood & accepted my reasons.

        3. Rebecca says:

          Hi KitKat,

          Yes, my best friend doesn’t believe my husband is MLSOMATIC narcissist, she believes him to be narcissistic, but not dangerous enough to warrant me leaving him. She’s not supportive in my plans to leave him and won’t help me to do so. It leaves me feeling hurt, angry and disappointed in her, it also makes me feel doubt, makes me worry….you get the idea…she doesn’t understand because she doesn’t live with him. She doesn’t know what it’s like, when he tells me he feels like drinking again, whenever he feels stressed, frustrated or angry. She feels he’s a good guy because he went to rehab and got sober, when her own husband wouldn’t stop drinking and wouldn’t go to rehab and he died from his own poor life choices, prematurely. She only sees the changes my husband made and she feels that change should be enough to make me happy with him, to overlook the other behaviors. I see her point of view and it makes me feel like a rotten person, like I should be happy with his changes, but I’m not. I’m still being yelled at, belittled and he scares me with his threats of going out drinking again. He threatens that to control me, I see that. She doesn’t.
          I have another friend who feels the same as her, that MLSOMATIC is a good guy and I should be happy because she’s happy I have a guy like him, where her boyfriend is worse than my husband. I think they see my grass greener than theirs, so why am I complaining about it? In their viewpoint, I can understand how they see my life compared to theirs. I have a home I pay a mortgage on, it’s stable owned home, where they pay rent and it’s not stable that way a mortgage is stable. …my husband works, I work, we both have stable jobs….neither one of them have stable jobs, one is working for an older lady and attending to her home, running errands for her, like an assistant to this older woman….the other is out of work, raising a baby….ones dating a narc, the other is dating a narc, both narcs are hurtful and manipulative to them. My grass looks greener to them. Sorry for the long response. Xx My dilemma.

        4. TBS says:

          Navigating a “no contact” regimen with a close family member is beyond upsetting and torturous. There is no easy or quick path through it, if at all.

          Gaining understanding of the narcissistic dynamic from others in your circle is usually middling at best, to nothing at worst. That’s okay, and at the end of day understandable, because there just isn’t the same emotional investment or experience of the situation.

          I’ve been trying (emphasis on “trying”) to deal with this myself with a MMR-A narcissist daughter-in-law and her ensnarement of my son, now separated from everyone in his family on the other side of the world for 6 years now.

        5. TBS says:

          I, as my son’s mother (plus his extended family that are all on this side of the word), will need to consider the reality that any true and real communication between him and me (us) is now only be viable with a letter to my son on my death.
          Which is I hope a long way off.
          To say this is upsetting is an understatement of immense proportions.

    3. WhoCares says:

      Hi KitKat,

      I have a total no contact with my mother – breaking it now, in a way, as I share this – I had this since before the start of the pandemic.
      She hoovered once in that time (via a third party, non-family member) but it got her nowhere.

      The issue with other family members was easily resolved, for me, by cutting out those who are susceptible to her hoovers. I maintain contact with two family members who understand what my mother is and the best way to deal with her.

    4. Rebecca says:

      Hi KitKat,

      I’ve had to step away from my husband’s family, I’ve severely lowered my contact with them. I don’t talk to his brothers, stepdaughter and I have a limited contact with his MLSOMATIC daughter. I only contact her, when I arrange time with her little one. I’ve deleted them from my social media and they don’t have my number, the only one who does is my stepdaughter and that’s just for the little one and arrangements. HG has helped me with this situation, with my husband’s family, they’re very toxic. I didn’t think it was possible to have so many narcs in one family, but I see the behaviors and now I know it’s possible. I keep my distance as much as possible.
      His youngest brother is in jail, waiting for trail, again. His daughter and stepdaughter are mooching on another family, for a place to live etc.
      His middle brother still likes to preach the word, but then tell dirty jokes, all in the same conversation. Just examples of things I see and it’s mote than that I notice….it’s all there for me to check off the repeated behaviors. I’ve pulled myself back a lot, it’s a process. Xx

      1. Bubbles says:

        Dear Rebecca,
        Sometimes one just has to ‘pull the plug’ for one’s own sanity!
        I had a situation with my brother-in-law, he would downgrade his wife (even though they are separated, but still together) by referring to her as ‘shit face’ behind her back. I called him out on it and you should’ve seen him back peddle and apologise like no end. He won’t be doing that again in front of me, that’s for sure haha

        Mr Bubbles had an ‘old’ client who he talked to regarding her portfolio on a very occasional basis as his dealings were of a very minimal nature. Slowly and gradually it increased to the point of being an intrusion into our home life. She would ring him all hours during the day, then it encroached into our dinner time. She would not hesitate in keeping him on the phone for up to an hour at a time. We’d be out for dinner or with family (our kids were getting really annoyed with her interference) or friends and she’d ring, so he started to ignore her calls which made her call even more and leave numerous voice messages. Mr Bubbles finally told her, in a polite manner, not to call anymore. Ohh boy !
        Her true colours then came out, she got really offended and left nasty messages. Talk about invasion of space, self entitlement and lack of boundaries. All she ever did was talk about herself! Surprise surprise!
        I suggested he block her!

        I find dirty jokes from men are usually crude and not at all funny (usually I pretend not to hear or say “no, not really” when they ask it haha)

        1. Rebecca says:

          Dear Bubbles,
          Sorry I just saw this comment. My stepdaughter calls my husband at dinner rime a few times a week and she’ll talk for about 45 mins to two hours. When she calls, I leave the house. She just complains the whole time, about her boyfriend and her life and I don’t want to hear it all again. She drops hints that she wants to move back in with us.In fact, I’m waiting for the shit to hit the fan and her and her grandfather will be knocking at my door. No way do I want to live with another family member. Three times tried it and three times it failed. No more family staying here.

          My husband’s middle brother thinks himself to be a preacher, he knows the scriptures well, but no decent preacher will tell you dirty jokes, after quoting scripture like he does. The grandiose comments and the lack of getting a job and working to support his family…..for years now, I mean years, he’s had his wife support him. A wife who already has 3 kids to support and he bad mouths and complains about her, calls her names behind her back. Yeah, I see his behaviors.

          The youngest brother just got out of jail, on probation again. He broke in his mother’s old house to flop there. My stepdaughter went there to get the mail and found him there. He told her, “you guys could have left me something to sell.” He didn’t even go to his mother’s funeral and feels entitled to make money off her death. I’m telling you, HG told me it’s possible the whole family are narcissist. I think HG is correct because I see the behaviors, these are just a few I had time to mention….there are more…the abuse in the family, both to each other and the abuse they dish out to others. MLSOMATIC’s youngest brother would be physically abusive to his gf, his middle brother had a restraining order against physical abuse from his ex wife, stepdaughter just got off probation about 5 months ago….the behaviors are all there…and HG already gave me my stepdaughter’s ND results…she’s the same as her dad MLSOMATIC. I believe his youngest brother is a Lower Lesser Somatic, if he’s not a Psychopath. His middle brother is more likely a Lower Midrange Victim Narcissist because of his need for the pity plays and sympathy is so great, the lack of working, laziness and woes me crap, like my mother….pitiful.
          Sorry, had a lot to release.

          My Aunt just died yesterday morning and I found out last night. I haven’t slept well, I’m home from work and just dealing with it. Why I’m rambling, lack of sleep….I’m not saying for a pity party, it’s not, I’m just explaining my mood of being tired of their shit, goes with being tired because I’m also sad. I’m human, I grieve and get tired. Hope you’re well, sorry again for the long ass comment to you and HG, who’s moderating it. Thanks to you both for your comments and HG for your work. Xx

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Hugs to you, Rebecca x

          2. Bubbles says:

            Dear Rebecca,
            Heavens to Betsy, your husband’s side definitely sounds like a family merry-go-round of narcs. There’s a certain mindset that just expect things in life to be handed to them on a plate without doing the hard yakka.
            Sounds like you truly have your hands full Rebecca.

            I’m so sorry to hear your dear aunt passed. I hope you have some sort of support lovely. Your emotions will be going haywire right now.
            Built up emotions always need a release valve. Take your time and feel free to let off steam here if need be. Just make sure you’re taking care of yourself in the meantime. My sincerest condolences 💐 🫶🏼

          3. Rebecca says:

            Dear Bubbles and AV,

            I’ve spent a lot of nights crying over my feelings being hurt by his family. I just wanted to be accepted by them. I know that sounds pitiful, but it’s how I felt and I tried hard to please them and get approval from them. I see now it was a waste of my time. Now I don’t care, if they like me or not. I’ve removed myself from them emotionally and I don’t allow myself into their spheres of influence, so they can’t make me care about them and rope me back in. I learned that here. I feel it’s a small victory, but a victory, middle finger salute to them. A good Provocation image of HG’s I imagine here…….that’s nice, feels good. I’m not going back there either. I’ve come so far, it’s not to the finish line, but it’s progress….
            And thank you Bubbles for the condolences xx She was my mother’s cousin, who grew up with her like a sister, why I call her my aunt, and she was a wonderful and kind lady. She didn’t judge anyone, she listened, understood and shared her warmth. She was strong, her first husband, I believe was an abusive narc and she divorced him back in the late 60s….when it was a taboo to do so. She remarried and was happy. I told her about my marriage issues and she told me, don’t stay if you’re being abused sweetie, only you will know your limit of abuse. Only you will know when it’s time to go. You’re stronger than you give yourself credit for and you can do it, just believe in yourself and the rest will fall into place.
            She was a remarkable woman and I wish I could tell you more about her. I shared her obituary with HG through email. I wanted to share the memory of her with HG , You and AV. She was special to me and that kind of special… want to share. I hope one day to be such a person as her. She loved me and I loved her, that’s all that really matters in the end. Xx

          4. Bubbles says:

            Dear Rebecca,
            I understand about wanting to be ‘accepted’, I spent my whole life chasing my own tail, just to end up being completely knackered in doing so! We are people pleasers ! We bend over backwards to please, only to have manipulators target us….for what ? Tears and heartache! My heart doesn’t need added stress. My tears are no longer wasted on people who don’t bring me joy. (Marie Kondo) haha
            There comes a time when reevaluation becomes critical.

            Your dear aunt sounds as though she was a very kind wise woman and you were extremely close. She didn’t judge you!
            We are a lot more than than we give ourselves credit for Rebecca, we are the only ones who don’t see it. Your aunt’s legacy is there to guide you, believe your instincts and go with the flow. You will always have her love!
            Your journey will keep getting better Rebecca, we can already see how far you’ve travelled. Just follow your aunt’s beaming light.🌟

          5. Allison says:

            Dear Rebecca,
            I think planting that tree is a lovely idea. Hope you are holding up.

        2. Rebecca says:

          Dear Bubbles and Allison,

          Thank you both for your kind words. Xx

          Bubbles, thanks for your encouragement and keeping my head up. The last few days have felt surreal and I’m adjusting to the loss of my Aunt. I’ve been trying to stay positive and not think everything is just screwed up now. I know it’s my ET talking in my head, making me feel like going off the deep end….I’m fighting to keep my spirits up, my ET is wanting me depressed. I’m trying to stay productive and less emotional. Keeping busy is the way I accomplish that. Bubbles, I’m going to keep moving forward, goals on my mind. Thank you xx

          1. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Rebecca,
            Please don’t feel everything is screwed up, it’s only temporary emotions. Depression is definitely not productive, your aunt sounds like a strong woman.
            Find the calm with your aunt ….she’s rooting for you . Focus …..and she will lead you by her strength.
            Sounds like you have a mission at play . This is your path!
            My heartfelt best wishes …… you can do this, the healthier you get !
            💕good luck

          2. Rebecca says:

            @Dear Bubbles,

            I had something positive happen to me today at work. I got acknowledged for completing a job well done by another supervisor, not my own supervisor. She felt my work needed to be shown that she appreciated what I bring to the team. It made me feel good and put a little extra in my paycheck. It’s a start to feeling better. Thanks again for your kind words of encouragement, and yes, my aunt was a strong person. Thank you xx

          3. Bubbles says:

            Dear Rebecca,
            Congratulations and well done! 🥳

          4. Rebecca says:

            Thank you Bubbles, little happy news helps me get out of my funky mood. I’m being productive this weekend. Nothing makes me feel better like getting my hands dirty. I’m refinishing my bedroom floor. Work is a quick way to feel better for me. Must be my Carrier side. 😆 xx Thanks so much Bubbles xx

  18. Anna says:

    Dear HG.

    Have you seeen the new series Great Expectations?

    After watching it and analysing. I believe you are in fact the perfect gentleman.

    Were you indeed brought up as a gentleman in the aristocracy?

    The scene where Bentley Drummle meets Estella and Pip is the chaperone. Bentley puts pip in his place saying “It does not speak”

    This reminded me of somethings that you wrote in “Black Flag”

    The whole way the upper class was, well clearly considered nowadays to be “Psychopathic” Slavery, the ivory trade. See the times we live in have changed and now it is considered “abnormal” as people live in a “fluff” bubble

    Need to say that logically it seems psychopathy was the normality in the old days for humans, and that empaths are in fact more “evolved” as they have the traits of human kindness and compassion, which are not necessary for survival but are indeed an evolution of humankind to a higher level.

    What are your views on the above statement about empaths?

    1. Contagious says:

      I have written about Sound of Freedom and my research has shown trafficking is higher today than ever. The internet, social media, the dark web. There was a woman in nearby Irvine that had a domestic slave here in California a few years back. We need to address the issue and tackle it. Especially for the innocent children. Elon Musk has been a leader in promoting the film and hiring people to stop trafficking on x. We need more education. We need more tools. We need more activism today more than ever!

  19. Black Phoenix says:

    I’d like to possess “50 Red flags” signed and dedicated by you (paperback or PDF).
    Very probably I’m not the only one…

    Do you think this “dream” could become true for some of your followers in the future?
    With a reasonable cost or with a lottery xD

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This can be facilitated, although you may have to wait for some time.

      1. Black Phoenix says:


      2. Rebecca says:


        You might be surprised how many followers would like that and would wait for it. Xx

        1. Joa says:

          HG first has to come up with some stylish signature as “HG Tudor”, because he actually signs differently. And some good texts, short dedications, where he will put someone’s name.

          As a bonus – a tissue paper with the smell of HG perfume, inserted between the pages 🙂

          1. Anna says:

            I would be up for a signed copy. For sure. Would love it, as many others would.

            Still waiting on that Tudorite T-Shirt!!!!

          2. Rebecca says:

            You made me laugh! Thank you xx
            I’m still interested in a signed copy of the CHAINED book I purchased , don’t mind waiting….xx

          3. Contagious says:

            I would buy HG cologne;) empath perfume. Imagine the scents! Super! Geyser! Contagian! Etc…

      3. Rebecca says:

        Dear HG,

        Please do the signed copies, that would be so incredibly awesome of you… have a signed copy…..heaven!!!! Xx ❤️ ❤️

  20. Another Cat says:

    I think I noticed a swap from one addictive substance (drugs, alcohol)
    to another (living sober, with a successful narcissist wife)
    among some celebrities.

    Have you also made this type of observation?

    As I have googled and read articles of some of my childhood favourites, i observed that the actor Dexter Fletcher, and the musician John Taylor (Duran Duran) both did this. (I think also David Gilmour.) Turning completely sober ever since they met their quite successful and tough narcissist wife.

    I can imagine this swap happening to some men, but I would be curious of your analysis of the phenomenon. I’m not sure what to think of it.

    1. Trev says:

      I think any good relationship would have sufficed for them.

    2. Julia says:

      John Taylor’s wife, and David Gilmour’s wife? The one who thinks their bandmate is antisemitic? They seem to be quite convinced of it.

      1. Another Cat says:

        Trev, Good point.

        Julia, I believe Polly is a narc, but I completely agree with her that Roger Waters – another narc – has been acting totally antisemitic and utterly weird.

        David Gilmour is an empath imo.

        1. Julia says:

          I don’t know about Gilmour and Polly, though DG being an empath wouldn’t surprise me.
          I was at first quite taken aback to hear those accusations against RW but I do agree that some of his behaviours have been weird, including wearing something resembling a Nazi SS uniform on tour earlier this year, making him an easy target for those claims.

  21. Black Phoenix says:

    Dear Ultra,

    Could you make an article or a video about the breadcrumbing?
    I experienced different level/type of this manipulation.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Already done see Crumbs of Conversational Comfort.

      1. Black Phoenix says:

        Oh yes.
        Thank you!

  22. Sweetest Perfection says:

    After witnessing the commercial success of Barbie (I haven’t watched it yet), I thought of this question. HG, given the fact that narcissists choose their targets based on other prime aims apart from fuel, and that you see other people as appliances, my question is: do you regard your partners in a similar (albeit, not exactly identical) way as Barbie dolls? For example: my IPPS is doctor Barbie, one of my IPSS is lawyer Barbie, the other one is professor Barbie, I have a DLS therapist Barbie, then another one actress Barbie, etc etc?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I view them as appliances.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Thank you HG. I guess it is hard for me to think of a doctor toaster, a lawyer fridge, and so on. Barbie the movie is so overrated by the way.

        1. WiserNow says:


          The movie Barbie is a huge exercise in corporate promotion. It’s about selling the doll and marketing the brand. The storyline, plot and film is little more than advertising.

          It’s a marketing exercise between Warner Bros, the filmmaking company, and Mattel, the company that makes and sells the doll. Mattel Films is the company that launched the film.

          The concept of making a blockbuster film about Barbie is based on an attempt to increase sales of the doll. According to an article in Variety magazine, sales of Barbie were falling before the film was conceived. The Variety article states that due to “the rise of e-commerce and the consequent closing of toy stores, Mattel’s sales were nosediving.” The article also states: “A cultural shift in beauty standards, gender norms and representation didn’t help the parent company of the white plastic doll.”

          Prior to its launch, the Barbie film was heavily promoted with a huge marketing budget. Everything Barbie – including the doll, the colour pink, Tik Tok videos, and cameo appearances on other TV programs – ensured the film was talked about everywhere.

          In Australia, just before the launch, I saw an interview with Margot Robbie and the film’s director Greta Gerwig. The interview was on a TV program normally about politics and current affairs with the occasional celebrity interview.

          During the interview, Margot Robbie claimed the film’s message was that girls and women should be comfortable and happy to “be themselves” because they “are enough” as they are.

          Such BS! After saying that, even Margot looked like she knew she was talking utter nonsense. Her face became expressionless and still for a moment.

          While watching the interview, I thought about the many cosmetic surgeries, ‘improvements’, and work that Margot Robbie had had done. If you google before and after photos of her, you’ll see that she looks very different now than at the start of her career. Her face shape is different; her cheeks are no longer rounded and instead, she has the sculpted cheekbones that suggest she has had fat removed from her face. Her teeth look different, her hair is different.

          …and she’s spouting off about the film’s message being that girls and women should feel they “are enough”. It’s hypocrisy in the extreme.

          I haven’t seen the film and I have no interest in it whatsoever.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            For someone that is really feminist the whole movie sounded like a list of regurgitated feminist formulae without any depth while dangerously giving anti-feminist people a good reason to continue to claim that feminism is just anti men. I didn’t even like America Ferrara’s speech and she was obviously casted with a clear intention to add a sprinkle of diversity. Her speech was too overused and out of place, sadly, a lot of women said they were moved by her words. I was not, I was embarrassed because they were not genuine. While some people think this movie is reactionary, I immediately thought the point was to continue to sell Barbies by turning around the narrative of the toy. Very similar to the publicity in the soap company Dove, which all of a sudden is a deacon of diversity when only a few years later it featured raced women that turned white after taking a shower with Dove. Ah, money money. I had a Barbie doll and played with it, her name was Nadja and she was a Russian spy in my imagination. I liked her because she had an extra long braid. The fact I liked playing with dolls and that I feel very feminine doesn’t make me less of a feminist, and yes I recognize she was not the perfect role model but I also had other dolls that were chubby and I loved them all the same. I slept with all my dolls and covered them with my bedspread so that nobody felt left out and unloved. But that’s another story.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            *beacon! Not deacon. At least I didn’t write bacon!

          3. WiserNow says:

            *I haven’t seen the film and I have no interest in seeing it whatsoever.*

            (It’s obvious from my comment that I was interested to learn about external elements of the film. My interest was based on the concept and making of the film and the film’s promotion. Apart from that, I have no interest in watching the film itself.)

          4. annaamel says:

            As I was reading your post, WN, I wondered if you’d seen the film. Of course at the end you clarified you had not & had no intention of doing so. I also had little interest in it until I saw a trailer and I decided I would check it out. I liked it.

          5. Bubbles says:

            Dear Wiser Now,
            You raise some interesting facts WN
            I was treated to the Barbie movie as a surprise birthday gift. There were numerous messages throughout the movie, ‘to be yourself’ and ‘you’re enough’ …..too many in fact. I get it, but I didn’t warm to it…….here we go again! So overkill! I preferred it in ‘character doll’ mode rather than making it, yet another ‘politically correct’ statement. Now they’re going to bastardise Snow White. Is there nothing sacred left anymore ?
            I’ve seen Margot Robbie’s cosmetic surgery transformation pics. They all start to look the same, don’t they? Clones 😂
            Then there’s the duck lips, big bum brigade, the list goes on ….all fake !!
            Now she can afford to have even more work done seeing as it’s raked in a whopping $1.18 billion!!!
            Ridiculous !

            ‘Back in my day’, haha, you appreciated a doll or any gift for that matter, for what it was ( more likely to be hand me downs) We didn’t have preconceived ideas. In fact, we were grateful and appreciative enough just to get a gift. If we received a ‘brand new’ anything, we thought we had hit the jackpot ! We treasured whatever we were given til it disintegrated. My how times have changed.

            WN, I agree, save your money hehe

          6. WiserNow says:

            Hi Bubbles,

            Yes, times have changed when it comes to toys. I remember when I had a range of toys that was very different from the phones, iPads, PlayStations and Barbie mansions that kids have these days. I recently saw a Barbie ‘dreamhouse’ that’s a multi-level, large modern doll-house. It looks very detailed with an outdoor lift, a garage for the Barbie car and a slide to go down into a pool. It’s quite something.

            I’ve just googled the new Snow White remake and I see what you mean. The 1937 film ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’ is a classic. It’s beautifully animated and the story and music are charming.

            I see now that the remake is going to be a woke version with a stronger ’empowered’ Snow White, six full-size, magical creatures instead of dwarfs, and only one actual dwarf. Apparently, the makers of the new film didn’t want to misrepresent people with dwarfism🙃🙄

            That’s ridiculous. If anything, the remake is going to make children even more confused, not less. It’s such a sweet, imaginative story. Why not just leave it alone and allow a new generation to be charmed with the fairytale as it is?

          7. Bubbles says:

            Dear WiserNow,
            I saw an interview with a dwarf person regarding the controversy over the new Snow White movie and he said that’s what they actually call themselves ……..dwarfs 🤦‍♀️

          8. Viol. says:

            I’m tired of “empowerment” that basically consists of reading history backwards.

            My idea of an “empowered” woman is one who makes the time period she’s in work for her: The Wife of Bath, Amber St. Clare, Scarlett O’Hara. They don’t sit down and wail about being oppressed by The Patriarchy or not having men take them seriously. They work the system to get what they want, and if that means letting men think they’re dumber than they are, fine. Note that while Scarlett is telling Frank Kennedy, “how smart you must be!” she’s thinking to herself, “the old fool.”

            Maybe the fairy tales were lies even when they were written: knights were thugs on horseback who went scorched earth on villages, not heroes who saved maidens from dragons and ogres; princesses married some hideous creep because of a desirable alliance instead of the handsome hero who saved them from the witch.

            Those lies, though, had the truth of Jungian archetypes and Campbell’s hero’s journey.

            The lies of pseudo-feminist marketing have no truth to them at all.

        2. annaamel says:

          Have you seen the film now, SP?

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I did anaamel, I posted my thoughts in other comments. I wanted to like it, I did, but I couldn’t. It sounded so staged… I liked a couple of jokes, for example, from my perspective as a translator I would like to see how the script has compensated the pun in the beach scene in other languages.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Well, the good thing of watching a movie before you emit a critique about it is that you know what you are talking about rather than vomiting what other people told you you should think about it. I would never in my entire life talk about a film I didn’t even see.

        3. Witch says:


          Yeah I thought the movie presented a shallow cliche of women’s problems.
          You’re not going to get equality of outcomes between men and women because they are generally interested in different things and women have a biological disadvantage in that they carry children.
          shulamith Firestone addresses this in her book the dialectic of sex where she argues that the root cause of women’s disadvantage and subordination is their biology so she advocates for transhuman reproduction in which we can create children outside of the female body.
          I had this argument with my sister when she brought up the amount of female CEO’s in comparison to male CEO’s.
          I said well.. women prioritise putting themselves through physical and mental torture in order to have children, which means they have to take time out from work so what do you expect? You can’t have everything
          There are some extreme aspects in feminist philosophy that argue that women should not have sexual relationships with men until we get to a point where it might not be a disadvantage to do so. But it’s a pointless suggestion, most women are not going to deny men sex and children.
          And therefore we will continue to be limited by our biology

      2. TBS says:

        Women are spending millions to watch a giant advertisement of “Barbie” .. which is more likely to bewilder, than inspire .. (“Guardian”).

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Well, I only spent $12 (not true, I purchased a glass of rosé as well to join the pink spirit) and at least, given my work, I can use it precisely to talk about fake feminism and corporatism appropriating the arguments of fair social causes to sell more to the ingenuous population. “Everything counts in large amounts.”

          1. Anna says:

            Hi Sweetest perfection. I went to see it with my daughter. We got free tickets! It was very amusing! I love Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling was great too. Almost spat my cola out when I saw Kenland!
            Was a great film. I want to go see Oppenheimer, but may wait until it comes round to stream as it is 3 hours long!

        2. Contagious says:

          I laughed a lot. Funny Ad!

  23. KitKat says:

    When was the last time someone surprised you?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Last night.

      1. k mac says:

        Oooo do tell?

      2. KitKat says:

        Was it the confetti trick? I love the confetti trick.
        Sometimes I’ll mix in a little glitter if I really like the guy.
        You pull from the Devil’s Toolkit, we pull from the Empath’s Fanny Pack.

        1. Duchessbea says:

          Oh please KitKat, keep your bedroom antics to yourself. Frightening images and thoughts. Need a stiff drink after reading that.

      3. TBS says:

        In what way were your surprised and by whom?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          A NISS who knew the answer to something which I did not expect them to know.

          1. Rebecca says:

            Dear HG,

            Was the NISS, your sister?? Xx

          2. HG Tudor says:


          3. Dani says:

            Mr. Tudor–

            Was the NISS a business rival or a friend in your personal life?

            Thank you so much for your time. Much appreciated.

          4. HG Tudor says:


          5. k mac says:


          6. Dani says:

            Thank you, sir.

        2. KitKat says:

          Oh wow, I responded with a joke because I honestly thought you were teasing me. Thanks TBS for asking the question I should have.

          That recently? My question came at just the right time.
          I imagine you aren’t surprised often, and it’s a treat when you are.

  24. Trev says:

    If you could make a wish to do any activity you want for 20 minutes what would you ask for if: could do only legal things with someone currently living could do anything legal or illegal with anyone living or dead

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. I would hand Martin Gore some of my music and have a brief discussion about it.
      2. Speak to my deceased twin sister about a particular matter.

      1. Anna says:

        I had no idea you had a twin sister. Was she the empath? or was that another sister?
        My condolences.
        I am sorry for your loss.

      2. Z - zwartbolleke says:

        @HG Tudor: 💔💔
        Wow that came without warning…

      3. Rebecca says:

        Dear HG,

        1) Do you ever imagine what your twin sister would be like today, if she were still alive?
        2) What do you imagine her to be like?
        3) If she were alive, would that change you or your legacy?
        Thanks for your time and I appreciate you. Xx

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. No.
          2. N/A
          3. No and no.

          1. Rebecca says:

            Thank you HG for your replies and your time xx
            I think, I think about her more than you do. I understand now how you don’t get down, you don’t allow your mind to dwell on such things….something I’m learning to do, dwelling doesn’t help anyone and it’s not very productive. Logical thinking is the better way to go , when dealing with hard times.

            Will you add to the Knowing HG Series in the near future??xx

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Not in the near future.

          3. Rebecca says:

            Thank you HG for your replies and time xx

          4. Rebecca says:

            Dear HG,

            I’ve noticed some behaviors from my best friend, that I didn’t include in her ND. I’ve come to notice, she only calls to complain about something or someone in her life making her mad. She also calls when she needs something, like a babysitter for her cats. When her boyfriend ignored her for 8 days, she called me. When I told her, I suspect he’s a narc, she blew off my observations and went right back to him. She makes excuses not to hang out, instead she’s all about her boyfriend and ignores other friends, including me. I’ve decided to stop trying to make plans with her and make plans with other friends. I just notice she only calls me, when she needs something or wants to complain to me about someone else, or something else….and I’m here to listen, give advice, that she quickly shits on and throws out.
            What do you think of these behaviors?? Xx

      4. Becoming Observant says:

        How old were you when your twin died? Will you share with us whether her death was an illness or accident? I’m sorry for your loss. Loss of a sibling changes us all.

        1. WhoCares says:

          Becoming Observant,

          (Some) details, like the answer to your question, can be found in the private KHG Forum – although it is quite a feat to sift through the posts there.

    2. Another Cat says:

      1. HG, I heard Richard Butler of Psychedelic Furs talked with him a couple of months ago, resulting in the collaboration that Butler’s songs appear on DM’s album. Martin seems nice.

      I am very curious, looking forward to your talk, and hearing your music. 😊

  25. mare cristallino says:

    Hello HG,
    1. Does the narc detector show when a narc has psychopathy? Or if it is only a psychopath with no narcisism?
    2. Are you going to offer someday a discount in the narc detector? (I have so many to analize here)
    3. A person is in huge pain (spinal disc injury) and needing a medical treatment but cannot afford it. He asks his rich parents and they denied the help/money to solve the situation. Meanwhile they keep observing how much pain he is suffering, risking future mobility problems ( spinal injury) but doing nothing. They do nothing, only observe with no feelings as if he were an insect, the only noticeable thing is that weird shine in their eyes.
    Is this psychopathy?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Yes.
      2. No.
      3. Not of itself.

      1. Anna says:

        Interesting. If someone purchases the narc detector, do you divulge this to the customer that the said person tested is a psychopath? is this included in the package?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Duchessbea says:

            HG, perhaps if you could elaborate a little bit more that would fantastic. You are a man who very eloquently and articulately puts together great articles, I am sure you can find a few extra words to enrapture us all with.

          2. Rebecca says:

            Dear HG,

            I think my ex might be a Psychopath, thinking on his behaviors and comparing them to my brother, I’m thinking they’re very similar. He’s more violent than my brother was, at least in a different way. He contacted me last in May of 2021. He’s about due to contact me between now and next year.
            I’ve blocked him, he creates new accounts and catfishes me. I’ve learned to not reply to people I don’t know, for it might be him again.
            The last time, he admitted it was him.

            Should I get a ND done on him?? Xx

            Thanks HG xx

          3. HG Tudor says:


          4. Rebecca says:

            Dear HG,

            I’ll do the ND on my ex. Do I need to add the Borderline diagnosis too?? Xx

          5. HG Tudor says:

            You just did.

          6. Rebecca says:

            Dear HG,

            I’ll do the ND on my ex on Thursday, after work. Does that work for you?? Xx Thanks

          7. HG Tudor says:

            It does

          8. Rebecca says:

            Dear HG,
            It’ll be interesting to see if I’m right about the Psychopathy or not. Thank you for your reply and time. Xx

          9. Rebecca says:

            Dear HG,
            What did you think of the Nicholas Cage starring movie called, National Treasure and the way it presented the Knights Tibeler and the FreeMasons and the history surrounding them?? Xx

          10. Rebecca says:

            Dear HG,

            Sorry, I misspelled Templar xx

  26. TBS says:

    F**king WordPress! It’s a joke.

    1. Julia says:

      I agree it can be highly annoying. Are you commenting in response to any particular comment?

    2. Another Cat says:

      I can’t see who likes my posts.
      I used to get an email everytime someone did.

      1. Z - zwartbolleke says:

        @Another Cat
        Me neither.
        Long ago, we were all able to see under each reply, who were the people who liked the post.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          “SP liked your comment and AV’s too.”

          1. A Victor says:

            Aw, thanks SP. I like yours too. 🙂

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            AC, I am myopic. My apologies!!!!!

        2. Another Cat says:

          Zwartbolleke – I feel like listening to the Mary Hopkin song everytime I see an old email about likes 😉

          Sweetest Perfection: I am almost AV, thank you 😀

          1. A Victor says:

            Haha! I appreciate it anyway SP! And still like yours!

      2. A Victor says:

        Same. And I can’t like anyone’s now either.

  27. Dani says:

    Mr. Tudor,

    You’ve said that if you could take a pill that would make you an empath for 10 minutes, you would to satisfy your curiosity.
    1. Is there a particular situation you would want to experience while under the influence of this pill?
    2. Would you be the Ultra empath?
    3. If yes to 2, what school/cadre would the Ultra empath most resemble?

    Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. No.
      2. No.

      1. Dani says:

        Thank you, sir. Much appreciated.

  28. Black Phoenix says:

    Can the ET be increased by the interaction with a new narc just on whatsapp?
    Because after 8 days of breadcrumbs (with 2d of ghosting in the middle) my battery of feelings is “full”. Anger, frustration, disperation, suicidal ideations.

    I think she is a Narc (MMR A). As I explained to you. I find 2-3 indicators.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Yes Black Phoenix,

      I was drawn in very quickly online. Close down the interaction, block and don’t unblock. Often it’s easier to spot your own ET shooting upwards than it is to spot a narcissist. Your ET knows, even if you don’t.

      It has been 8 days. Not worth the risk. Close it down.


      1. Black Phoenix says:

        THANK YOU

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          You’re welcome Black Phoenix.

    2. Jasmin (SOTF) says:

      Yes, for an empath as soon they’re entering any of the arenas of interaction with a narcissist.

      1. Black Phoenix says:

        Oh yes.
        With the 90% of possibility she is a MMR A. I detected her very quickly!
        This makes me proud. They are the more “covert”. My dad (MMR B victim) is “in love” with her. Because her mask is wonderful. A nice, lovely, insecure and fragile girl.

        Thank you Jasmin xD

        1. Jasmin (SOTF) says:

          You are welcome.

          I’m just curious, how come your dad knows this lady?

          1. Black Phoenix says:

            At the work place 🙂
            I work (part-time) with my dad…
            She is the assistant of one of our clients.

  29. Asp Emp says:

    Regarding ‘issues’ with WordPress, they have Forums where you can search questions that other users may have ie the like function not being present, an answer was given. People use different login sources (ie WP account / FB / etc), different PC / mobile technology / Operating Systems. I checked WP for their latest version, sometimes a new release does fix bug issues. Sometimes it is a matter of uninstalling the app and reinstalling it. Lots of factors.

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Thank you Asp Emp, I have deleted the app and reinstalled it a couple of times and updated the latest version too but it is still not working. I will not make a deal of this anymore because some people get annoyed when discussing the lack of efficiency of certain items like phone apps, prepaid cards, or anything unrelated to narcissism.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        SP, I am sorry it didn’t work for you, I do understand the difficulties.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          “Sweetest Perfection liked your comment.”

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Sweetest Perfection, thank you 🙂 (I did laugh put loud too 🙂 )

    2. WhoCares says:

      Thank-you, Asp Emp.
      That was helpful.

  30. OMG.
    My head is exploding.
    Can all of us agree that the following things are playing out here:
    1) There is rampant addiction to a certain narcissist/psychopath based on the replies on this thread.
    2) H.G. has demonstrated how a narcissist can cut someone down to the quick, and the person just keeps coming back for more. I mean, that first reply was brutal, and I thought this would end right there, but …. no. This is a perfect example of why empaths cannot stop interactions with the narcissists in their lives.
    3) Everyone needs to take a deep breath, step away from limericks if they are triggering some weird PTSD reaction to whatever happened to them in the past, and just. ask. H.G. questions. about. narcissism. as. this. blog. entry. specifically. states.
    I have no dog in this fight except that at first it was highly entertaining … then I stepped away for a day after reading H.G.’s response (I mean, that was scary) … and holy cannoli, I mean what the actual heck.
    Hereby submitted with intended kindness — just take a breather and come back after your head clears.

    1. WhoCares says:


      The limericks were the best part.

      1. Heidi says:

        I agree, that was entertaining… problem was that H.G. had finally had enough, and the resulting dialogue after that kept going.
        Just my view, but it is worth introspection about how and why empaths are drawn like moths to flame. The flame consumes, but they keep coming back for more.
        By the way, I am not judging, as I am easily drawn in as well. Just throwing in my two cents that it got a little crazy, and it is worth thinking through how that happens.

        1. WhoCares says:


          “Just throwing in my two cents that it got a little crazy, and it is worth thinking through how that happens.”

          I agree with your latter point: it is worth thinking through how that happens.

          While, in the past, similar exchanges would have bothered me (or caused me to be concerned about how such discussions looked from the point of new comers to the blog) – more recently, I simply use them as opportunities to apply my learning.

          One thing I have observed is that when it comes to “heated” discussions on the blog (and I put that term in quotations because not everyone shares the same concept of a heated exchange – or people read more emotion into a statement than was actually conveyed by the owner of a comment) is that such disagreements or exchanges can be much more intense between two empaths, who are quite entrenched in their views and adamant about the truth of what they see/experienced, than a similar exchange between an empath and a narcissist.

          Also, in my opinion, empaths hold grudges far longer than narcs.

    2. A Victor says:

      Wow, this is a great comment LMT. The addiction is real, all empaths are susceptible, some have a more difficult time getting those rose colored glasses off than others. I had the biggest crush (addiction) on HG way back, until he was extremely forthright with me several times, we can get those glasses off but it is not always easy. I found that I’d even been willing to ignore things he’d said about himself straight up at times, until he was able to break through my fog. And wow, am I ever thankful that he did this!! It was then that my real healing started I think.

      Stepping away at times can be very beneficial.

      1. Heidi says:

        Thank you, A Victor,
        I was thinking the other day about my past romantic relationships— prior to my ex husband and divorce. Of all of them, I think there were only 2 who were normals. The rest were narcissists. None were empaths.
        I know that for myself, I am attracted to narcissists. They seem more exciting in the beginning. It is for this reason I have just decided to be alone for a while.
        The chat taking place here reminded me of the natural inclination of empaths to keep at the narcissist. It is a hard wired tendency. That’s the only reason for my comment — just to give people something to consider.

    3. TBS says:

      LMT, original comment posed was in response to HG’s series on narcissistic guru-ism .. specifically, as it appears to pertain to some avid followers of this blog. This dynamic being questioned is the result of clear headedness, not the other way around.

      1. Heidi says:

        Thank you, TBS, yes I knew how it all originated. The limerick reference on my part was due to watching from afar how the whole thing went from controlled fun to a lesson on interactions with narcissists.
        If you are clear headed, then I applaud you for it. Sometimes people can let emotional thinking take over, though, myself included.
        Point of fact, I have tried to be more mindful lately of when my empathy is eroding, how emotional thinking affects me in all situations, and how I can bring myself around to logical thinking.

    4. Anna Plyance says:

      Hello Heidi,
      hopefully your head has had a chance to recover a bit. Debates can get heated, especially when they touch on emotional subjects, but that is all it was. It is very kind of you to worry. But you can trust that HG knows what he is doing. He would not write such things if he did not know what sort of person he is (or isn’t) dealing with.

      1. Heidi says:

        If I cast you in a film, you are Melanie Hamilton in “Gone With the Wind.”

        1. Anna Plyance says:

          thank you very much for saying that, you gave me a good laugh. I think there are quite a few people who would disagree with your choice. But what is really interesting is Olivia de Havilland’s relationship with her sister Joan Fontaine. There also seem to be at least some narcissistic indicators in the stories about these two. They are still the only siblings to have won lead-acting Academy Awards, once they were even nominated the same year. They were born 15 months apart. As children they shared a bedroom, and Olivia would read the crucifixion from the Bible in the most dramatic fashion until Joan “shrieked in terror”. And seemingly one of them hid under the other’s bed for hours and then, in the middle of the night, up came the hand and gripped the sister.
          When Olivia had to write a last will and testament as a school assignment at age 9, she is supposed to have written: “I bequeath all my beauty to my younger sister, Joan, since she has none.” Later on, Joan told People magazine: “Olivia has always said I was first at everything—I got married first, got an Academy Award first, had a child first. If I die, she’ll be furious, because again I’ll have got there first!” Which she did.

          1. Heidi says:

            That is wild. 😳👍
            And you’re welcome.

    5. Contagious says:


      Yes there are a small percent of narcs in this world. Even smaller percent of psychopaths. Many rise to prominence. But why did Hitler fall? Caesar? Marie Antoinette? Why are our prisons filled with antisocials? We watch real crime series where psychopaths get caught? Ted Bundy? Gacy? Etc… why? Yes he’ll on Earth until they are caught? Don’t forget the masses are normals and empaths. We play a role and not a small one. Swords up empaths!

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Don’t forget either who is controlling the world.

        1. Anna Plyance says:

          Don’t you worry, we are not about to forget you.

        2. Oh I know. Unless you are diverted like a puppet, you know. It makes the purpose that much greater. Jesus lived in such times as did Buddha, as did Muhammad. You chose the path you take and the higher road as a greater view.

      2. Another Cat says:

        I agree that they are few, Contagious, but I heard narcs are 16 percent, every 6th person. Though psychopaths seem very rare, 1 percent or just one per mille? Much fewer than ppl think.

        1. Contagious says:

          Another Cat, I don’t know the exact percent as I read many percentages. You may be right as this world is going in that direction. Thank you!

          1. Another Cat says:

            Contagious, on this plattform a majority are empaths, statistics of my taste😊😎

        2. Anna says:

          1 in 100 people is a psychopath according to statistics.

          However, the rate is probably much higher if tests are done anonymously. No psychopath will actually admit on a test, they would most likely lie on the test to pass as a non psychopath.

          Animals are psychopathic. It is their true nature. Dog eat dog. They are quite barbaric. They commit all kinds of perversions. Chimpanzees rip monkeys to pieces and eat them. Vile. The list is endless, they are just animals after all. They know no better.

          In my view empathy and compassion are on a high evolutionary scale. Psychopathy is probably the natural sick human state down with the animals.

          Altruism has no benefit to survival, in my view it is a higher state of evolution that humans have achieved through civilisation.

          1. annaamel says:

            ‘Psychopathy is probably the natural sick human state down with the animals.’

            Some psychopaths have extremely disturbing behaviour, it’s true. But not all psychopaths are sadistic and go out of their way to inflict pain on others. They may simply have a reduced emotional range and a low threshold for boredom.

          2. Anna says:

            annamel indeed. What you wrote is accurate and very true. Especially about the boredom. I did comment about that somewhere on the forum, but alas it is vast here. But I agree 100% with what you say.

            We all have a free will and it is down to the individual to decide how they behave. Psychopaths unlike schizophrenics are considered to be sane so they are in control of their actions.

    6. Jill says:

      Personally, I find it highly tedious and annoying. I want to receive notifications of relevant comments and responses, but my inbox gets filled up with nonsense. If it persists, I may have to unsubscribe, which would be a shame.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Alack alas there exists not such a filter

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Is your comment a meta statement? Because I did not find it relevant either.

      3. Anna says:

        You won’t be the first or the last. I unsubscribed a few months back. I just check the blog entries that are of the most importance. I do not need to be spammed with 2054 emails a day. I have better things to do with my time. It annoys me too that there is no quote function either, it is very annoying to navigate, but alas, this lies with the programmers of the site. It simply is the way it is.

  31. Black Phoenix says:

    When the Manchester City won the UCL you didn’t active the discount…
    Did you act in this way because I had asked you about this possibility days before?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, I was without access to the relevant computer as I was overseas.

  32. TBS says:

    AP, expecting someone to reflect on their behaviour .. especially when it affects others negatively is a natural and healthy condition. This is a doomed to fail expectation however when it comes to HG or others of his kind. I have made the same mistake myself obviously, mostly in my long term marriage to now divorced high functioning narcissist, as well as recently in regards to HG and his methods.
    To think that HG would want to take a balanced view of such things (because obviously we would, and because of how well and seemingly fairly he expresses his views) is actually a contradiction in terms .. it will never be the case for him.
    People are people, they act and react according to how each are “wired”. We, as empaths, ASSUME HG would take a balanced approach to various comments or situations .. fact is he takes and will always take a very much one-sided approach – based on what serves his NARCISSISM.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Does not mean I’m wrong though. In fact, adopting an evidence based and logical approach devoid of emotion leads to correct decision making. It may not be popular or likeable but that’s irrelevant.

      1. TBS says:

        Does not mean your assessment is ALWAYS entirely right either .. appropriate consideration of facts is important from all standpoints. I am a strong adherent of evidence based, logical approach, devoid of emotion decision making.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It’s always right for me and that’s all that matters.

          1. A Victor says:

            “It’s always right for me and that’s all that matters.”

            This is what makes the difference, thank you for this reminder HG. It’s always about our perspective.

            I can sometimes be right (according to my perspective) when allowing some emotion into my thought process along with logic etc, like with a child who’s been taunted for example. Yes they need to hear, “Yeah, look at the source, they obviously don’t know what they’re talking about, what they said isn’t true at all. Let’s get you into tae Kwon do lessons, but yeah wow, that was hurtful, I’m so sorry they said what they said!” There is logic, there is help going forward, necessary. But the emotional piece at the end validates their hurt at the incident and allows it to be put into proper perspective and it is then easier to work past. They know someone else gets it, they are not alone.

            I think the interceder does this for the child who is at risk of becoming a narcissist, empathy is shown, witnessed and felt. When we feel alone, we can put defenses up for our own protection that can be difficult or impossible to remove later.

            As adults we know we can handle it, hopefully, and we have the ability to get away from abusive people. But it is still sometimes nice to know that someone else gets it or has been there and is okay now.

            The danger comes when we think from our emotions and no logic is applied, as with me in the past in romantic relationships. Once the addiction kicks in, look out. Why it is so important to learn to spot and avoid narcissists in the first place.

          2. TBS says:

            Ain’t that the truth. Not necessarily right for others however.

          3. Heidi says:

            That actually was funny.

      2. Contagious says:

        HG I say it again. No matter what, you are the best in communicating what a narc or psychopath is. The DSM and ICE committee should be begging you to join. As should every profiler. They love their scientific approach and psychobabble to distinguish you from them and degrees. But you are the BEST. With that being said if I knew any of the damage you really did and had the power to do so, I would end it. I respect you but if I knew the truth of what you did, I would pray for it and ? to end.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you.

    2. WhoCares says:


      I find it interesting that you feel that individuals should stop and consider how their “likes” of comments – explicitly, the negative and/or critical ones by HG – might impact those on the receiving end of said comments — and then you, yourself, launch a volley of indirect commentary back at responses to your position.
      Similarly, shouldn’t you have consideration for those on the receiving end of your replies or take responsibility by at least addressing them to whom you are speaking?

      I note that you addressed AP directly.

      1. Rebecca says:

        Hi WhoCares,

        I noticed the same thing, the comments to no one in particular and the oddity of it all. Xx

        1. WhoCares says:

          Hi Rebecca,

          I just feel that if, at core, the issue is accountability and consideration for a person’s feelings, then taking ownership of one’s comebacks would also be helpful, so that people are not left questioning if they’re in the wrong…or even who is being spoken to.

          On the issue of ‘likes’, I am actually in the position of those who point out that there is no point in debating it. This is because it’s become evident that a very, very small percentage of blog followers actually converse in the comment sections and given that the likes are anonymous (to all but the recipient), we really can’t even determine that the same individuals are doing both the ‘liking’ and the commenting.

          Additionally – if someone is waiting around to find out how many immediate likes a given comment, by HG, receives, I feel like they could fill their lives with more constructive pursuits.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Side note re: Likes are anonymous to all but the recipient.
            I can’t see who likes my comments. I thought it was the case for everyone. Interesting.

          2. WhoCares says:


            “I can’t see who likes my comments. I thought it was the case for everyone. Interesting.”

            Perhaps this is dependent on whether or not one is signed into the app?
            No idea, really.

            I haven’t been able to update my avatar for, going on, 2 years now.
            *Shrugs* – I simply get an error message.

            I wanted to change it back to being consistent with my YT avatar, but no can do.

          3. Rebecca says:

            WhoCares, NarcAngel and AV,

            I agree with you three and no one can see who’s doing the likes, except the people receiving the likes, and there is the mysetery… will they tell, or keep it to themselves?? Maybe tomorrow we’ll find out…xx 😆

          4. Rebecca says:

            WhoCares, AV and NarcAngel,

            I just wanted to add, I do know how to spell mystery, don’t know why my fingers were like….dee tee dee with the buttons….oh well, it happens… 😄xx

        2. A Victor says:

          Hi Rebecca,
          This entire conversation has been really odd but interesting to read. It feels like 3 people volleying to be “right”, only one will win of course, that’s a given. But the choice of that which to volley over, not chosen by the one who will win, he is simply responding as it’s presented and I’m really glad for that, is so silly it’s laughable. Also the arguments made supporting the non-winners sides, more silly and disproven time and again by other commenters. It will be interesting to see how far the two try to take it using the same old arguments or if they will switch tactic and pull some other grievance in.

          1. Rebecca says:

            AV and WhoCares,

            You two have been here longer than me, I’m sure you’re used to the arguments and battles on here. For me, they still surprise me and I’ve got enough on my plate right now and I can’t get overly concerned about issues on here. It’s not like I don’t care, I’m just stressed enough as it is. Hope you understand xx

          2. WhoCares says:

            Hi Rebecca,

            I don’t really view the relevant situation as an argument, but I can see why it would be seen as such to some…more like a mellow disagreement, to me.

            I used to be more impacted by disagreements/arguments here, but less so now. I think that’s due to now, with further education, being able to see who the types of relevant individuals are and what might be motivating them (empaths who are more reactive/having various traits corrupted, etc….or narcs attempting to assert control) and I am long-term post-ensnarement, so my emotions are much calmer and reactions based more in logic (I also have a lack of Geyser traits).
            I have been upset twice by discussions, in my memory, since my time on the blog – once when I first arrived (and I was quite hurt and still healing) – at that time, NA and K (the original ‘K’) stepped in and helped sort out the discussion. I appreciated their involvement.

          3. Bubbles says:

            Dear A Victor,
            Imagine if there was a …….dislike*😱

          4. A Victor says:

            Bubbles, haha, that’s great! Yes, imagine!!

            Rebecca, I understand completely. I don’t have time for fighting either. Take care.

          5. Rebecca says:


            You called it, you were right! Xx

          6. Rebecca says:


            I think it’s a combination of my Geyser, ET and that I’m just sensitive to disagreements from having CPTSD and just being sensitive to vibes, reading between the lines etc.
            I got ridiculed on one of HG’s Instagram post, in the comments section. The beach pic, I guessed it was Scotland and I just wrote, “Scotland?” Two people made fun of my guess. At first, I commented back, but then decided to delete the comment and just block the two people. One even runs a narcissist victim help site…..not very empathic comment she or he left. The comments probably are still there, I can’t see them. It was upsetting, but I handled it differently. I decided to delete my comment, block them and try to not let it bother me. It bothers me some, but I’m trying to not react so strongly to ridicule and bullying comments. I just have to say to myself, I don’t even know them, why am I so upset? And use reason to tell myself, it’s not worth it to reply and keep getting upset about it. It’s not worth it. Having Geyser emotions is annoying at times. I’m reaching for more logical thinking too, not so in my emotions. Xx

          7. WhoCares says:


            (Sorry AV, replying here because I cannot find a relevant ‘reply button closer to Rebecca’s comment)

            “I just have to say to myself, I don’t even know them, why am I so upset? And use reason to tell myself, it’s not worth it to reply and keep getting upset about it. It’s not worth it. Having Geyser emotions is annoying at times. I’m reaching for more logical thinking too, not so in my emotions. Xx”

            I can understand the sensitivity part Rebecca that you mentioned and I am sorry that happened to you on IG… especially since your comment was pretty straightforward…someone must haves sensed/witnessed your Geyser reactivity! — the knowledge they are likely to get a reaction?

            We are simply beacons to some!

            I think you handled it great. You don’t know them and they don’t even know you, or the whole you.

          8. Rebecca says:


            Thank you for your encouragement about the IG comment to me. I’m glad I’m trying more of the logical approach to issues and pushing down my emotional response to things more. It makes a difference. I can get through difficult things with a clearer mind now. I can even see myself getting emotional and I tell myself, knock it off, getting emotional about it, won’t get it done. I’m excited I can hold back my emotional side more. Xx

        3. TBS says:

          WC, blame the “special” and/or “clunky” WordPress interface, should you feel the need.

      2. TBS says:

        WC, nowhere have I stated, complained or otherwise, “that individuals should stop and consider how their “likes” of comments – explicitly, the negative and/or critical ones by HG – might impact those on the receiving end of said comments.” You must be confusing my replies with someone else’s. I, on the other hand, am not confused.
        This thread originated with a question I posed to HG weeks ago after listening to his series on narcissistic gurus, and what I perceive as somewhat “guru-follower-like” behaviour that a particular cohort of bloggers have toward him.
        To avoid the risk it should all kick off again and tediously go back to square one with an inability to comprehend the nub of my comment .. No, it is NOT a comment inferring that HG considers himself to be a narcissistic guru either.

    3. Anna Plyance says:

      Hello TBS,
      this “debate” showed a whole range of behaviours that fit your guru-follower comparison, not just the “liking” part. But it would obviously lead nowhere to continue with the topic here. Broadly speaking, the responses were as expected, maybe in some cases a little more creative.
      I am sorry for your bad experience with narcissists, but it seems you have come out of it quite well (as far as is visible here).
      Where he wants it, I think HG might actually be able to take a more balanced view on certain things, or at least it may be easier for him to achieve it, because he does not carry around all this emotional baggage that can get in the way and cloud our view. But that requires devoting brain power to it, even if it may only be a minuscule amount, so he would have to see it as serving his purpose.

  33. TBS says:

    It annoys me a bit and can make me feel sick,
    Weak defences from ugly step sisters of the “Witches of Eastwick”.
    They have gained much insight, but have lost much of their fight,
    ‘Cos of fantasies about the self-proclaimed size his … house! 🏤

  34. Carole says:

    Anna Plyance, I will happily admit that I clicked the like button on HG’s post, I did so because I found it funny, you see when you attack someone expect retaliation.
    I do not know who you are or what your circumstances are but if you are on the internet posting such vitriol nonsense about someone who holds great respect by those who follow him then expect some repercussion, people clicked the like button, you were not left abusive comments, you can either deal with it or disappear, either works.
    For the record, I am owned by HG and remain happily obedient to him (no need to reply to me being owned because no one’s opinion matters to me only HG’s).

    I hope that you find some peace in your life and I wish you well.

    1. Allison says:


    2. TBS says:

      C, disagreement and discussion is neither “attacking” or necessarily “vitriolic”. Whatever’s working for you C that’s ok.

  35. Black Phoenix says:

    Dear Ultra,
    I’m reading the description of -How the Intimate Relationship Functions With the Narcissist-
    You talk about the Tertiary Source.

    I can’t find nothing about this type of victim in the site.

    Did you talk about this just in this bullettin?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      See Fuel.

      1. Black Phoenix says:

        Ok Ultra.

        Why there are not videos or articles about this type of target?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Tertiary sources are mentioned in various articles and videos.

  36. Anna says:


    You say empaths often think they are narcissists. Is this due to projection from the narcissist? Could this happen if someone is ensnared with a psychopathic partner too?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is a combination of matters Anna. It includes the projection of the narcissist, the fact that empathic people can do similar things to that undertaken by a narcissist (but with different drivers), their ability to self-reflect and the tendency to self-flagellate.

      1. Anna says:

        Thanks for your reply HG

        1. Another Cat says:

          For example, if I’ve been psyched and given lot of silent treatments and shifting goalposts, then I might send sms at 11 pm to the narcissist where I ask “Did I do something wrong?” “I am really sorry!” “Love you” or such,

          which, despite of my worries, is crossing another persons boundaries, texting late in the evening after bedtime. It can be considered as narcissistic behaviour. Thus afterwards I feel insecure and wonder if I was being egotistic.

          This is one of the ways we will wonder who acted the most selfish and was it actually me.

          1. A Victor says:

            AC, this is so true, you wrote it really well also, it’s that second guessing we do. Do you find it annoying at times? I can find it so annoying to second guess myself but still can’t not do it sometimes. I have learned to ask others whom I trust their thoughts about the situation, or do as HG suggests and go right to the source when possible, that can be very helpful.

          2. Contagious says:

            Another Cat, take the Empath Dectector but I already know you aren’t a narc.

          3. Another Cat says:

            AV, thank you, it’s been I think 6 years since I last messaged someone late, thanks to HG giving me knowledge about anxiety and silent treatments.

            Contagion, thank you, I am budgeting for the detector!

      2. Rebecca says:


        Jordyguin just shared, in a comment I replied to yesterday, that our schools and cadres can also play a part in making us feel more guilt, upset and blame for our behaviors, so we fear we’re narcissists , when we’re empaths. I found it very interesting that our schools and cadres make that feeling, the guilt worse, especially having Geyser, and Carrier in the empath’s make up. I have both of them. 😆 Explains a lot of my fears about myself and my self doubt. Xx

        1. A Victor says:

          Hi Rebecca, I think those with Martyr and CoD would be more likely to feel guilt, upset and blame, carriers possibly less so. In the recent empath videos, if I remember right, HG said carriers will often view the narcissist’s problems as stemming from something other than themselves (the carrier).

          Supers would likely feel the least guilt, upset and blame which would likely make the disengaging easier for them.

          I have both carrier and geyser, neither is my majority, along with very strong super and, when dealing with a narcissist, I will at times begrudgingly and mildly feel guilt and upset and accept blame for a limited amount of time, if it is not warranted but the narcissist is acting to put these on me. Once I realize what’s going on, it is not allowed to continue, I reject it. If I have actually done something “wrong”, I own it, apologize, I might feel bad for a while and will certainly take steps to ensure it doesn’t happen again, and move on. Non narcs are typically forgiving when this occurs.

          When I was married, being constantly on the wheel of misery, I did feel these things much more, because my ex knew how to trigger them in me, than I do now. Now I am able to be much more objective and not absorb these emotions most of the time.

          When I first arrived on the blog, I had been utterly shaken by a narc and was so confused. It was difficult to separate so much of this, it took a long time to do so. Well worth it of course.

          Anyway, I just wanted to say I agree with the idea that our schools and cadres affect how we process both positive and negative emotions.

          1. Rebecca says:

            Hi AV,

            I think my Codependent plays a role in my feelings of guilt and self doubt. I still have more to learn here and I’m enjoying the new series, so much new information for us to absorb and enjoy!

            How are you doing, with your mother? I hope you are well. Xx

      3. Contagious says:

        For me it was like going to a confession, I know I sin. I am human. I sin. I was not educated at the time being new to HG. So I worried I was a narc because of my sins. But I think if you worry that you are a narc, is a tell tale sign you aren’t one. My detector said Empath.

    2. Dani says:

      Thank you for asking this question, Anna.

  37. Isabelle says:

    HG, I would like to hear your thoughts on the following: I recently watched Ingmar Bergman’s film “Autumn Sonata”. Ingrid Bergman plays a mother who to me has all the characteristics of a narcissist – she neglected her daughters, and even says at some point, of her disabled daughter, “why couldn’t she just die?”. The daughter who is not disabled is played by Liv Ullmann, and we understand through the mother-daughter conversation after a seven-year gap in their relationship how the mother favoured her career as a famous pianist, never giving any attention and time to her children or husband. She also still humiliates her daughter.
    My first question is: if you have seen the film, would you agree that the mother is a textbook narcissist?

    I also watched the bonus, which is an interview of Liv Ullmann. She says that in this film, the mother is an icon of feminism, she had all the rights to favour her career over her family, and that if a man does the same he is not blamed for it, so she shouldn’t be blamed either. I was shocked, and thought that was a strange appraisal of ‘feminism’ – basically saying that women/mothers are just as entitled as men to neglect their children. When neither are, in my view. Maybe that was the 1970’s or 1980’s understanding of feminism in her country, I don’t know.
    The only part of the interview I might agree with, was that the daughter is in her forties and she says there comes a time when children have to stop blaming the parents and reproaching them for their failed life, especially at that age. I would add: and go no contact, hehe.
    My second question is: would you agree that the daughter shows codependency?
    And third question, linked to the second: weren’t the actress’s assessments overall rather callous? (I tend to think that when you play a character, and Liv Ullmann played the daughter, you slip into the skin, story and psychology of that character, so you are better able to make an assessment of that character. If that is what she did, I am a bit lost.)

    Thank you for you time.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I have not seen the film Isabelle and therefore cannot address that question for you.

      It might show codependency, but I would need more information. Her attitude might also be indicative of a narcissist.

      I agree, it would appear callous.

  38. TBS says:

    I wasn’t aware my comment referred to you specifically. You are welcome.

  39. TBS says:

    That is not the point being made .. it is not a comparison of the effects of what you describe as my “peanut gallery and off putting” comments and those unpleasant remarks and retorts made by HG which I say are unnecessary. Read and digest the comment properly.

  40. TBS says:

    Read my comment properly.

  41. TBS says:

    Here we go .. and another example that suppoets the point.

  42. TBS says:

    You are likely an example of the point being made.

  43. TBS says:

    “Deserve it” .. according to you, who believes and claims that all your abused empathic victims also deserved what you have dished out. Yes, people can agree or disagree with your upbraidings, but that’s not my point. My point is the zeal with which many feel compelled to support your upbraidings, and my belief that this is done because they blindly support anything you say, which is a behaviour of guru followers.

    1. Anna Plyance says:

      Case in point: This has got nothing to do with HG and he has never encouraged this, as far as I am aware, but there are people here who press “Like” on anything HG says, no matter how short, pedestrian (like a simple “Yes” or “No”) or abrasive it might be. Sometimes it is quite plain that the recipient of a remark will very likely feel hurt by it, and yet there are some supposedly oh so empathic people who applaud it. And sometimes the topic of the conversation will have no connection at all to third parties and is really not a matter to like or dislike.

      1. Bubbles says:

        Dear Anna,
        Mr Tudor is doing his own ‘ likes’ 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Bubbles says:

            I was being funny ….hence laughing emoji 🤣

          2. NarcAngel says:

            It appears on the subject of “like”
            Where HG’s do commonly spike
            Accusations overzealous
            Present more as jealous
            With invitation to go take a hike.

          3. Anna Plyance says:

            It appears on the subject of “Like”,
            which the empaths so commonly strike,
            the empathy is fake,
            when for flattery’s sake
            it is harshness and cruelty they like.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            There once was a poster named AP,
            Whose presumptive nature was most haughty,
            She liked to stir shit
            And judge quite a bit
            But she was no match for the mighty HG

          5. Anna Plyance says:

            My, are we cranky today. Especially considering I was not actually needling you. The “no match” part I might come back to if you do it in my mother tongue. Let’s wait for the “Likes” to roll in, shall we?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Not cranky at all, simply putting you in your place.

          7. NarcAngel says:

            I would “like” HG’s limerick but I have been unable to use the like function for quite some time for some reason WordPress has yet to explain.

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            There once was a psychopath narc,
            Whose beauty was alarmingly dark.
            His partners were puppets
            Abused and gaslighted.
            Plus, he scented your blood like a shark!

            (…. But his brilliance would make you go: fuck it!).

            I did a little variation.

            Come on, keep them coming! I love Limericks.

          9. Sweetest Perfection says:

            NA, WordPress has died on me. I can’t like anyone’s comments but I can’t even read this on the app anymore, just emails. People in the blog, consider your comments liked by me from now on! Unless you support Andrew Tate or worse.

          10. Truthseeker6157 says:

            The empath she looked so morose
            For HG was so damn grandiose.
            She cost him the earth
            He indulged her with mirth
            Then left and turned into a ghost.

          11. Anna Plyance says:

            For those who “Like” HG’s limerick: Thank you for so quickly and forcefully making my point for me. This is exactly the reaction I was talking about. Of course you may agree with HG’s comment and /or feel that I deserve what he says. That is not the point. I am not claiming you press the “Like” button in blind obedience regardless of actual content. But I doubt very much that all those who pressed it here will have sufficient knowledge about me or read everything I have posted, which is comparatively little, to allow for a sound judgement. I have had no quarrel with anybody here except maybe HG, but we are not talking about him for a second. You are willingly supporting a comment that consists of nothing else but a full-on attack against one person who you do not know and who has not singled out any one of you for criticism. You are quite willing to openly condone such an attack without knowing or caring in the slightest how it might affect this person, while at the same time preaching about being respectful, supportive, loving and caring in other posts. Where is the emotional empathy in that? There is a fairly substantial number of people here who have had to turn to psychological assistance at some point in their life. Some might not be able to cope with something like this yet. But that does not bother you. My example may be the most clean-cut of the ones I have seen, but there are plenty of others. And to top it off, most of you did not even have the guts to speak up and attack me directly. You are hiding behind HG. Anonymously clicking a button in support of a pure and unadulterated ad-hominem attack, however well-deserved you judge it to be, shows about as much emotional empathy (in action as opposed to talking about it) as one would expect from the typical internet troll and that group of people many of you have suffered and claim to be so different from.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Or perhaps they are sick of your attention seeking, whining, repeatedly making it all about you and repeatedly judging people you don’t know either, thus making you a hypocrite.

            Furthermore you’re dismissive, you acknowledge people might actually agree with the content of my limerick yet you state that’s not the point. Yes it is, they agree with its content.

            You’re allowed to attack people but you invalidate people by accusing them of attacking you judging their behaviour in so doing.

          13. KitKat says:

            NarcAngel I like your comedic timing 😹 WordPress has some ‘splaining, and I do not like it.

          14. KitKat says:

            Sweetest Perfection, as requested a lame limerick:

            There once stood a tower o’er sea
            Who was ruled by The Ultra HG
            Though he lived there alone
            And ate lots of scones
            Never without fuel was he

          15. HG Tudor says:

            I will quite readily eat a KitKat, all four fingers.

          16. KitKat says:

            *That* was ruled. That. ThatThatThatThatThatThat!!!!!
            Or which. I would have also accepted which.

            The need to revise history here is a matter of life or smear.

          17. Rebecca says:


            I would like to say, I liked your comment and I wish I could put 1000 times more likes on it. 👍👍👍🤟💋💋

          18. Anna Plyance says:

            If they are judging me and agree with your assessment that is absolutely fine. You may well be spot on. I am not accusing anybody for attacking me. They can attack me to their heart’s content. And if I am making it about me in this case, that would be partly because your limerick was about me, I can’t help that, and partly because it is a useful example to freely talk about without dragging anybody else into the mess and your limerick leaves no room for doubt about its intent. The point I am trying to make is that if you press “Like” on a comment about a third person you are not sending this out into a vacuum. If you honestly agree with a negative comment and you want to attack the “target”, that is perfectly alright. All I am asking is for us to be aware of what we are doing.
            Often someone (usually you) comes up with a witty reaction to a comment, which at the same time has the potential to be read as hurtful by the original poster (no, not me). If someone “likes” this remark, they might very well have done so because they appreciate its wit and cleverness. What the original poster will perceive it to be, we do not know. For example, and my apologies to the person who wrote this, someone talked about having written some poetry about a painful experience. You then told her to “keep the poetry to yourself”. Several readers “liked” your retort. I doubt she will have found this particularly funny (and it also shows that I am not the only one here going around invalidating or belittling people). But did the ones who “liked” your flippant remark think about the possible interpretation by the poster, namely that her writing is deemed unworthy of being heard by others? Or were they applauding your wit without a thought for the other person? If you weigh your options and decide it is worth it to support a comment while risking hurt for another poster, fine. But if those “Likes” pop up within seconds of your post going up, there is not much time for such thoughts. And that is what happened with your limerick and the poetry example. There was so little lag time before the “Likes” appeared that it is highly doubtful that every reader took time for considerations how much of it was justified or for reading earlier posts to form an opinion. So either they held the same opinion as you beforehand, which is a possibility, or they must have “liked” your post without checking its merits or sparing a thought for anybody else. If the latter, that would seem to show an absence of empathy, would it not? The difference between me and the card-carrying empaths around here is that I never claimed to possess a lot of the stuff.

          19. HG Tudor says:

            I am sure, as some have already done so, they will share their observations about your comment.

            You also omitted in your comment the actual response of the person who made the comment about her poetry, I would have thought that would have been central with regard to the point you were making, ah, of course, it actually contradicted your point, hence your omission.

          20. KitKat says:

            I can only handle two and then I’m full

          21. Sweetest Perfection says:

            @KitKat: HG’s gonna dine on you after those scones. And get diabetes.
            (Rhyming alone with scones was hilarious).

          22. KitKat says:

            Sweetest Perfection,

            You enjoyed my rhyming with scone
            Yet you left the like button alone
            So I’ll give you some flack
            For your like button lack
            And then keep my lips tightly sewn

          23. Rebecca says:

            @Anna P,

            It’s nothing personal, but I have been watching a few people on here, poke the “bear” (HG) and I take note of the haughty comments and the rude behavior, dismissing people etc, but I also notice HG sets them straight. This is his blog and you’re in his “home” and you’re acting like a rude guess. HG putting you in your place is the least he can do to you, you’ll live. Be thankful he doesn’t devour you, for your transgressions. There are worse things he can do. Rule of thumb, behave when you’re in someone else’s home, least they think you don’t have manners and they won’t invite you again. It’s the adult thing to do.

          24. Dani says:

            There once was a man named H.G.
            who taught the empaths for his legacy
            It was all about him
            the great and the grim
            all ought listen and love his resplendency

            I love the limericks!

          25. annaamel says:

            ‘The difference between me and the card-carrying empaths around here is that I never claimed to possess a lot of the stuff.’

            You are correct in identifying that empaths are not always empathic. They can be selfish and even cruel. As it’d be highly unusual (maybe impossible) for a person to have pure empathy, even card-carrying empaths will have varying levels of both empathic traits and other, less pleasant ones.

          26. Rebecca says:


            Empaths are human, not Saints, as HG has mentioned several times. We have narcissistic and empathic traits, hence why HG has the Trait Detector available in the Knowledge Vault. We’re humans not pure souls with white wings. We are aware of our narcissistic traits too, we’re not blind to them as the unaware narcissist seems to be. I personally can’t get how someone can be blind to their own behaviors, but the proof of it, i can see with my own stepdaughter and her delusions of greatness and being the one not responsible for her own life problems.

          27. Anna Plyance says:

            “You also omitted in your comment the actual response ..” – Indeed I did. And I also have this crazy notion, my sweet one, that in some instances there might be an element of saving face at play, that not everybody will be so terribly keen on divulging openly and publicly how much some throwaway comment might have hurt just to give you or anybody else an opening to land another hit.

          28. HG Tudor says:

            Hardly the impression the original commenter gave, on the contrary they were most forthright.

            Spare me the condescension also.

          29. Dani says:

            @ Rebecca

            I agree with your July 21, 2023, 19:33 comment about having seen some people poking Mr. Tudor…I think I’ve seen one that might be one of the narcissists he’s mentioned occasionally venture into the lair of the dragon, so to speak.

            I try to think of whatever I’m observing as a chance to learn more, from the behavior of the Ultra interacting with someone I think might be a narc according to his classifications (found rarely)…or whether it appears to be an Ultra/empath comment and response (common).

          30. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Anna P,

            I think you are vastly underestimating the ability of the commenters here to think for themselves.

            I see it as natural to be grateful to HG for the knowledge and assistance that people have gained here through his work and advice. However, I find it extremely unlikely – grateful or not – that an empath would sit back and watch HG unfairly attacking another empath on the blog. It would go too far against our own instincts.

            I have never witnessed HG attack anyone on the Narcsite blog. In fact, even the fly by narcs that come in here are not attacked by HG, although many will attempt to provoke that response. They are instead ‘dismantled’ through HG’s use of logic.

            If HG’s response received likes, consider why that might be the case. It will have nothing to do with HG’s name being above the comment.

            As it happens, I rarely ‘like’ comments. I am not a big social media user, so liking is not something I think to do. I read and I respond and try not to miss a comment addressed to me, but I’m not great at remembering the like button.

          31. Rebecca says:


            Yes, I think it’s why HG allows their comments to go through, so we can see their behaviors and learn to spot them better and faster, as the more behaviors we observe, the more we learn. Xx

          32. Sweetest Perfection says:

            KitKat, about not giving likes to your limerick:

            On the issue you want me to address
            This has caused quite a deal of stress;
            I can’t use the like feature,
            Don’t become such a preacher!
            You well know what a shit is WordPress.

            Bwahahaha! The last line is a bit Yoda like.

          33. Anna Plyance says:

            that is the thing about writing, different people will get different impressions from the same set of words. And even when somebody plainly states something in writing, it does not necessarily follow that they do not leave other things unsaid.
            And irony is not condescension. What I am assuming is that you might not always think about the emotional impact of something in the same way others do.

          34. HG Tudor says:

            Calling me “my sweet” is not irony. You’ve been listening to too much Alanis Morisette.

          35. WiserNow says:

            HG and AP,

            I liked both of your limericks. Each one was a clever and creative way of making your points. It was a duel using limericks. As the saying goes, the pen is mightier than the sword, and everyone likes a limerick. So it’s a win-win from me.

            I would have given each one a ‘like’ if WordPress was co-operating.

          36. HG Tudor says:

            Splinters in your bottom WN?!

          37. Jordyguin says:

            The last line is a bit Yoda like
            Tudorites like what HG Tudor write
            WordPress gave us stress
            Buttons were p-p-p-pressed


            🎶…loosen up my buttons babe (uh huh)
            But you keep frontin’ (uh)…

          38. Jordyguin says:

            Anna – not the Banana Anna
            Bit the ’chord’ like chihuahua Santana
            Never name your doggy Santana
            So it won’t be tanned by the ’sun(a)’


            (I purely like the limericks and the rhymes. No bad intentions towards Anna or Santana❤️)

            I can’t watch HG being criticised though. Girls, can you imagine to moderate the huge amount of comments HG daily moderates and fulfill every reader’s needs, queries and expectations?! HG reads all of them and creates so much as a response to our ’learning process’ via the articles, videos and blog responses. There are also other matters; the consultations, HG’s profession(s), the legacy and private life…I think ’guru-like followers’ is not apt because after learning here – the gurus should not have any chances with us. The potential is given, the rest is up to us… HG does so, so much. I can only have huge respect for the effort HG puts in to this work and try to understand and I also relate to the readers position, who give their time, effort and gratitude by being here and connecting with HG, his information and other readers…in whatever nature, via likes etc.…♡

          39. KitKat says:

            “Calling me “my sweet” is not irony. You’ve been listening to too much Alanis Morisette.“

            HAH! Too funny.
            Is it irony that all those things are unfortunate and not ironic?

          40. Anna Plyance says:

            According to the Cambridge dictionary (though I do not know if you would accept their verdict, seeing as you went to O.), irony is “the use of words that are the opposite of what you mean”. You are certainly not mine and not overly sweet either. Alanis Morisette does not go on my playlist, what do you take me for?

          41. KitKat says:

            Please note that my response to the Alanis Morissette comment is only regarding the joke HG made about how the ironic song is, ironically, filled with no examples of actual ironies.
            I wasn’t laughing at anyone being ‘put in their place’, nor was I even considering the context of the exchange at all.
            I did quote the original comment, but then realized that I should only have included the Alanis Morissette reference, and not the part intended for another user.
            Just wanted to clarify that my ‘HAH’ was not mocking or insulting in manner, but meant to demonstrate my laughter that the ironic song is unironic, and my query about if this in turn makes the song and it’s lyrics appropriately ironic.

            Thank you

          42. WiserNow says:

            Some think life is all about winning
            And believe it will lead to them grinning
            If only they knew
            That a limerick or two
            Makes a smile like a song makes singing.

          43. Anna says:

            Gosh what fun! Limerick time.
            I love writing poetry.

            Please everyone this is nothing personal, just my observation of this particular conversation.

            Here we go…

            There once was a poster called Anna Plyance
            Who liked to post things in defiance
            She questioned the likes
            Bringing on a blog fight
            HG showed her his might
            Without flinching

          44. WiserNow says:


            “Gosh what fun. Limerick time.”

            Your comment reminds me of a passage in the bible:

            “There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

            What do workers gain from their toil? I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.”
            – Ecclesiastes 3:1-11 (New International Version)

            Although I am not religious, I do enjoy reading and thinking about certain passages in the bible. This is one of the passages that, I think, is written in a simple way, yet has depth in its meaning.

            There is a time for everything.

            There were many times when with my family while growing up, I wondered why the narcissists would always want to ‘win’. I thought to myself that a family is about having a group of people who were related, who knew each other and accepted each other as they were. A group of people who were at home with each other – who made a home together.

            There is also a time to fight. There are times we are called to do so.

            To fight within a ‘home’ in order to ‘win’ does not create a family.

            The origin of the word ‘family’ is interesting. Over time, the meaning of the word has evolved. The earliest origin is the Latin ‘famulus’ which meant ‘servant’. The word evolved to ‘familia’ which meant ‘household’, a grouping that included both servants and relatives.

            According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the current word ‘family’ means “the basic unit in society traditionally consisting of two parents rearing their children.”

            The Merriam-Webster dictionary also defines the word as: “any of various social units differing from but regarded as equivalent to the traditional family.”

            …”any of various social units” …. hmmm

            I didn’t want to fight and be at war with my family. I didn’t want to be the scapegoat and martyr myself in order to have a family either. *Due to the narcissists in my family*, the only choices I had were:
            1) to fight and be at war with my own family; or
            2) to detach and not have a family.

            Again… *due to the narcissists in my family*

        2. Allison says:

          You’re quite welcome, Bubbles. I enjoyed it as well.

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        I would have liked everybody’s limericks but like I said I am technically obliterated. AP, these arguments are pointless, people are gonna like what they like; there are better causes to fight, believe me. Do not get mad about nonsense. Hey, my limerick was not against you! I tried to turn the topic around but it didn’t work. Let there be peace.

        1. Allison says:

          I wish I could join in the fun and write a limerick too, but my skills peaked with the man from Nantucket.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Mine is titled “The Psycopath Narc of Nantucket.” Hence the ending 😛
            Come on, give it a try!

          2. Kit Kat says:

            I wonder if your Nantucket is the same as my Nantucket?
            Got mine off a bathroom stall, I shit you not.

        2. Dani says:

          “these arguments are pointless, people are gonna like what they like; there are better causes to fight, believe me” — Agreed, SP.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank you Dani, I enjoyed your limerick!

          2. Dani says:

            Good to hear. I liked yours, too. And the ‘like button’ seems to be a bit of a problem for several people…I can’t use it anymore either.

          3. A Victor says:

            Pointless and a waste of time.

        3. Joa says:

          SP is right, there’s no point in getting upset over about nonsense. It’s enough to say once (I also sometimes get entangled for too long). Who was supposed to understand – understood. Who was supposed to think – he thought.

          Anna Plyance, if it makes you feel any better – all the limericks translated in my language are like “peas and cabbage” (a big mess). But I liked your limerick, I understood the message.

        4. Allison says:

          SP, I can’t get past writing the second line without stopping to Jill off. And the second line NEVER changes.

          And KiKat, thank you for not shitting me.

        5. Contagious says:

          But poor Santana got dragged into here. He was a chinchilla not a chihuahua. I have a chihuahua, 11 year old Betty White though. Empath dog! Lol I am all about respect and peace we learn more with it!

          1. Jordyguin says:

            Santana was a chinchilla?!! Awee❤️🙏 He made it on to the KNT blog…he will be remembered💐

            Santana the chinchilla

            Wasn’t a chiller

            Electric fire he choose

            Fire – HG approves

            (Santana, now Betty White. So cool names for pets! I like the name Taxi or Cab for a dog. Imagine you’re standing in the park and calling for it

      3. Fool me 1 time says:

        You say this has nothing to do with HG but yet I don’t see you writing about the likes anyone else on here gets. Do you actually keep track of all the likes everyone gets on the blog? If not then I would say it very much has to do with HG. There are times that if people are commenting back and forth on the blog and they both are making some very good points, then I-will hit like for both of them. Sometimes I hit the like button just to let someone know I’m here, especially if I don’t have time to comment and I haven’t been on for awhile.
        With all that some of these people have gone through, the pain and suffering from being involved with a narcissist or narcissists you are going to complain about them hitting that like button for a man that for some, literally saved there lives. Don’t talk about empathy when you clearly don’t know a thing about it. Hiding behind HG or anyone else is something I don’t do. You have yourself a good day.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          FM1T, good to read your comment, thank you for writing it. It brought a smile to my face 🙂

      4. Another Cat says:

        On 99 % of blogs and youtubechannels on the entire internet, this is the case.

        Many regulars like the blog owner and his or her ideas. That’s why we, the regulars, have been reading his works for so long.

        The blog owner will be accused of acting as a cult leader because of this.

        1. A Victor says:

          Exactly. I have wondered if this is the only blog where this is in question by the questioners here. If so, why? Is it because the challenge of bettering HG is irresistible, or the perceived ability to injure fellow (perceived as weak) bloggers that is the draw? I suspect a combination.
          Whatever the draw is, the attempt is entirely ineffective.

      5. Leigh says:

        I don’t doubt that Mr. Tudor has followers that follow him blindly. He also has followers that challenge him though.
        Just the way you and TBS are challenging him right now. Not everyone blindly supports.

    2. WiserNow says:


      “My point is the zeal with which many feel compelled to support your upbraidings, and my belief that this is done because they blindly support anything you say, which is a behaviour of guru followers.”

      I think your comment, overall, is well-said. I have read the thread below which includes AP and (aside from a limerick that’s still in moderation) I am staying out of it.

      I agree that there are some commenters who seem to “blindly support anything [HG] says”. In my opinion, it detracts from the opinions, intelligence and depth of subject matter in threads where that happens. Frankly, it comes across as insecure, immature and tedious.

      Where someone says something even mildly critical of HG, it doesn’t mean it’s a blanket criticism of everything HG has ever said. It doesn’t mean HG needs to launch an offensive stealth attack to defend himself so that the offender will forever have a black mark against their name. There is no need for a posse of HG supporters to ride into town ready to lynch the perpetrator.

      It’s an **opinion**.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        And once again you deny them the opportunity to express an opinion by describing is a posse of HG supporters to ride into town. Just because a group of people form the same view that does not make them a posse. Nor are they lynching the perpetrator.

        They’re expressing their opinion, just as you’ve done, but once again you’re stating “here’s my opinion but you can’t have one too”.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Insecure, immature, and tedious could also be applied to people who give a shit about who “likes” what and to whom they direct them. Although, the subsequent back and forth of responses results in more blog hits, and that is the REAL blog currency over mere likes. So……those childish enough to whine about likes, do carry on – it’s good for business.

          1. TBS says:

            You’re a bit of smarty pants .. but miss the premise of the discussion entirely .. if you care to, check earlier reply to WC.

        2. WiserNow says:


          I’m not denying anyone anything. I am of the view that everyone who comments on the blog should be able to express their opinion without feeling like they risk a backlash from your supporters if they do.

          I’m not saying others can’t have their opinion too. I’m saying that blind support of anything and everything you say restricts communication of ideas and various viewpoints. It limits knowledge and information. Readers who want to comment may think it’s safer or easier if they don’t.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            As has been demonstrated before, what you believe you are writing and what you actually write are different.

          2. Anna says:


            I have disagreed with HG before several times on this blog. The discussion at hand remained between me and HG.

            Sometimes other people would express their opinion, but they did so in a manner that was polite. HG also remained polite sometimes using his dry humour which even I found funny. I never felt attacked at all. The discussion remained very civil.

            I certainly do not feel that if I disagree that there is a backlash against me in anyway.

            HG proves his point or opinion in a polite logical manner, albeit sometimes using his dry humour.

            I think this blog allows people to express their opinion freely, and that people are treated with respect. The information is invaluable, and even if HG does disagree he is still polite and behaves in a logical civil manner.

            This is of course just my opinion, perception and experience. Others may have had another experience.

          3. WiserNow says:


            Over the time I have been on the blog, I have had a different experience.

        3. TBS says:

          That is not the premise of WN’s comment. A perception of their intent, is not “denying them the opportunity” to express their opinion.
          My POV .. their devotion to you makes their opinions unreliable, or at the very least, questionable.

      2. Rebecca says:


        I see them goating HG, it’s not my imagination and it’s definitely not me following HG blindly and just agreeing with everything HG says. I can see for myself and think for myself, just because I support HG, doesn’t make me blind to other’s behaviors and comments. I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way. I don’t have an issue with you, so please let’s agree, to not agree. We can have a difference of opinion and still be respectful and mindful of treatment towards each other. Xx

        1. Allison says:


          Please wear whatever you like to the party. But one of you should make sure to bring something to stuff into my filthy mouth.

        2. WiserNow says:


          I don’t have an issue with you either.

        3. Contagious says:

          Wiser now and all who reads: I think HG is brilliant and should be in every psychologist students text, part of the DCM and ICE committee and I can only hope he profiles for the Brits if not interpol. With that being said I often disagree with him on the value of emotions and empathy for society, the world and success if not personal happiness. We are two ships that sail in the night on that point. Dreams too. I will give an example. I was feeling a bit lonely today with my son on deployment, my daughter in LA and my husband and I separated. I am always so busy and my life so filled with demands and love, I never get bored and rarely lonely. But I was. Then my neighbor who I barely know from Sweden in her early 60s who lost her son two weeks ago to suicide in his 30s shows up. It’s his birthday tomorrow. She said all the cards I gave her over the last two weeks ( food, flowers, gifts too) were in her fridge. I joked, of course everyone puts cards in their fridge. She laughed and explained it was her sons birthday tomorrow and she needs to look at them as it helps her get through the day. Of course I cried and held her. There are no words but all of my cards say “ you are not alone! Hugs” I told her I was going to check on her tomorrow that she was amazing, strong and an inspiration. A fellow Viking. She laughed. She shared her confusion over being angry at him. I said that’s a normal stage at grief but it was my personal thought and experience that people taking their own life have minds we can not understand anymore than a murderers, that they are trying to escape pain and often thinking they are helping their loved ones. She can feel angry but she must not forget he loved her and still loves her. I went home and made her a meal, got another card and a gift. My sense of unease was lifted. Then I got a call from a friend who is Episcopal Priest from NYC who is moving and although “ checking in on me” was really needing a boast that the move was right. I gave it to him as he and his wife have a beautiful marriage and their new home in Tennessee is lovely but really where ever they go, home is where the heart is and they have each other. A rare marriage. A blessing. Then it’s late, I get a call from a Taiwan contractor who referred me a case. Then I get a call from a Pilipino friend from law school who is dating a woman 23 years younger but who he is quite serious. They are both part of a sort of born again church. She is a virgin. He is divorced and there is a chance that the church might have to give them permission to marry. After talking awhile, it was obvious that they both feel strong feelings, rushed in and were both discussing big issues and overthinking things to the point of distress that they needed to relax, enjoy each other, communicate and trust that God would find a way if everything was right. He was so relieved and thanked me. But it’s me that is thankful for to give is to receive. Tomorrow is my neighbor and single moms birthday, I gave their sons an electric trash truck that was overwhelmingly received. I couldn’t wait to see the joy in the boys faces. I waited all week! It was heaven. I go to bed feeling full, content and complete. None of this would HG would get. At least not the emotional component but I feel complete, “ rich.” I don’t do this to get anything back but throughout my life, I have. If I was sick, I have many who would feed me. If I needed money, I have many friends who would lend it to me. During my office move, I had many appear out of nowhere to lift boxes. I could go on, I don’t give to receive but I know only in giving do we receive. Love is infinite in possibility. It isn’t a cake like a narc thinks that if you take a piece that there’s less for others, it’s a cake that grows bigger ever time you serve a slice. And with each accumulation you create a power. A different power than a narc. That’s why I often say swords up empaths! By respecting each other, nourishing each other, supporting each other, we make gains in creating better personal happiness, a better community, a better world. Butterfly wings! Btw almost all who speak to me say I have an “ insight” or “ intuition” that just gets it and I say things that help. Contagions know. I don’t know how but it doesn’t matter the race, sex, religion or circumstance or even if I have known the person a long time, I just KNOW. Even sometimes without meeting the person if given enough information. One dream class I attended, the only one ever, and I discussed it before as 50 people were there and I discovered I dreamed differently than anyone in the class. And friends lately for no explanation …my lucid dreams are like watching 4 dreams in a night lately! Anyway the speaker was a cold case profiler from the County who gave me a test. She loaded an app on my phone which was To look at crime photos and answer the questions. I got one wrong. To me, it was obvious. The woman in the trunk of the car with handcuffs was was not a victim, etc… she asked me to join them. I can’t. Too busy. But empaths can profile too. Empaths as all humans have special gifts and abilities than even AI can’t keep up with. We evolve too. In our own way. Fellow empaths, swords up!

          1. Jordyguin says:

            (Contagious says: July 23, 2023 at 08:38)

            „Empaths as all humans have special gifts and abilities than even AI can’t keep up with. We evolve too. In our own way. Fellow empaths, swords up!“


            Learn from the best..! Sword up with logic.

            Adopt the gaze of an uncaring perfect predator.

            Identify your prey: the misleading patterns which are fueled by imbalanced emotional states.

            Invade your own consciousness and crown your King and Queen – the Mind and the Heart.

            Become the architect of your own territory – your life, where ’swords out of steel’ would miss their aims as they encounter your swift mentality and precision driven moves.

            You may lose the battle of life… but win the war within yourself.

        4. Contagious says:

          What if others see some of his positions as RIGHT ON DUDE? Why would anyone get upset over someone else’s opinion? Or agreement?

          1. Allison says:

            That made me feel a bit weird, Contagious. It was incongruous to think of HG as “dude” for a moment.

          2. A Victor says:

            Contagious, I have wondered this very thing many times recently, and not only here on the blog. So many seem to believe that it is their business to call out, correct, scold, explain or otherwise speak negatively to someone else’s opinion or experience, it is mind boggling to me. Pre narc knowledge, I didn’t speak my opinions because I had learned that to do so was not safe. I didn’t understand at that time why it wasn’t safe. Now, I have gone back to not feeling safe, and often not speaking my opinion, once again. At least now I understand why it is so with the narcs. The ones that baffle me are the empaths that do it.

          3. Dani says:


            I have questions…

            “Pre narc knowledge, I didn’t speak my opinions because I had learned that to do so was not safe.”

            1. Were you this way with most people in your life prior to finding HG’s work?
            2. Or was it more specific people triggering silence and then feeling that was the behavior most others preferred even though some had not specifically stated a preference for that?

            “I didn’t understand at that time why it wasn’t safe. Now, I have gone back to not feeling safe, and often not speaking my opinion, once again.”

            3. Do you find there is a wide variety of topics you feel this way about or more specific ones?

            Hope all is well.

          4. A Victor says:

            Hi Dani, I hope you find this.

            1. Pre narc knowledge,
            I didn’t share my opinions freely with any person. If I shared, it was because I was directly asked or because it affected something to do with my kids and Mama Bear was aroused.

            2. Most people didn’t state a preference for it, it was what I learned as a child. No one cared about my opinions, I would be told my opinion rather than allowed to form one for myself, I didn’t have anything to add, it would anger people if I tried, messages like this. Many of them. They are still there and very difficult to overcome, though since arriving here, I have been working on it. Those who did state a preference for it, though few in number and all narcs, reinforced those messages. It didn’t take much, a word, a look even, and I’d stop.

            What the narcs didn’t know though was that I didn’t buy all of their messages. I do have my own opinions and some are very strong. Once I figured out what my opinion was about a matter, I lived according to it, always have, they couldn’t stop me from that. Haha. I always enjoyed that little “rebellion”. Still didn’t talk about it, just did it.

            3. It is everything except as stated above, when I’m asked or regarding my kids. The kids are adults now so no need for that anymore. Even when asked I’m cautious, it can be a trap, if it’s a narc I’m dealing with.

            Maybe the biggest thing I’ve learned is that opinions are only that, not of real importance except to those who hold them. Once in a while, a new thought comes by to consider but mostly, we all have them and it’s this side of a thing or that side, we won’t be swayed so why waste time either defending, debating or being made to feel guilty, no sense in that. It is not my job to convince anyone of anything, nor theirs to convince me.

            You know when it’s important? To know if someone and yourself agree about something, then there can be a connection sometimes. It is about starting slowly and building.

            I am well, thanks. I hope you are also.

          5. TBS says:

            Getting “upset” over someone else’s opinion, and/or agreement with HG’s comments/corrections has never been, and is not the premise of the original question posed.
            Go back to the source.

          6. Another Cat says:

            TBS do you enjoy being vague so that people don’t understand what you mean?

            Do you like to play hide and seek?

            Is that a strategy of yours when you comment on blogs?

        5. TBS says:

          Some (rare) bloggers probably do “goat” HG, as you put it. (I’m not able to confirm one way or another) .. other bloggers simply hope to engage in a fuller and more frank discussion.
          It’s a very slippery slope to place anyone who does not display the same approach or opinions into the “unsatisfactory” basket.

          1. TBS says:

            Not regurgitating, ad nauseam, previously explained concepts is not being vague.

    3. Contagious says:

      TBS to be honest I don’t get the like or not like debate. I see “guru” as a serious abuser who uses others for sex, money, power. Let’s say I like the Beatles. And I like their songs. They are not my guru. It’s a string word which I think causes confusion. HG is informative, very, his works are well written, entertaining and thought provoking. What’s not to “like”? But with that being said narcs and antisocials cause much damage. Some harmed by an abuser might “like” the education to help understand their situation. This is not someone following a guru. Some may like HGs ability to tell a story and it might not even apply to them. This is not a guru. Many may be fans, I am. I think his descriptions of narcs should be in every psychologists class as so easy to understand and so accurate, it’s like taking the DCM and ICE and making their definitions come alive into real people and real circumstances. But although a fan, I do not see HG as a guru. I have my own mind and respectfully disagree with him on many things. In fact, I think narcs and psychopaths are polar opposites of empaths. And I am team empath. Swords up! Like away! You too TSS! X

      1. TBS says:

        Contagious. My opinion is not and never was about bloggers “liking” HG’s or others comments in general (which would of course be banal ) – that concept has been taken up and run with by others on the site, not me. My comments very specifically explain how they refer to the haste and zeal that some bloggers have when liking and supporting HG’s unpleasant lambasting of some commenters, and how this is also behaviour that is displayed by guru followers.
        I’ve submitted a couple of replies to similar comments as yours, however, I’ve not seen them posted, which may or may not be the case given the difficult interface of WordPress.
        The whole conversation has become rather tedious and boring, as it seems the actual premise of my original comment is destined to be completely missed and/or ignored. There are only so many times I am going to repeat the point, and this is the last.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If you think my correction of people is unpleasant lambasting, you do not understand the meaning of those words.

          1. Anna Plyance says:

            Corrections are mostly seen as unpleasant, my dear, unless you are into that sort of thing. (But then, would a written one do much for you?) And then there are the differences in perception. One man’s ceiling is another man’s floor and all that. Personally, I blame the adjectives and qualifiers, or rather the fact that they are not often allowed out to play in your corrections. Not that I would see the privilege of arguing with you as anything but lots of fun, but the majority here might have a different view.

          2. TBS says:

            A “corrective devaluation” is not merely a correction. Nor is an upbraiding (your term), or unpleasant lambasting (my term).
            You alone also decides any so-called justifiable grounds to carry out these “corrections”. My high functioning narcissist ex-husband revelled in, and was expert at this as well.
            Some other terms that spring to mind are Straw Man, Red Herring, and just plain circular argument.
            The purpose of my comment/s were not and are not in fact to judge the category or content of your “corrections”, of which most are not devaluing in nature. .. I’m certain that you get this though.

          3. Anna says:

            Don’t feed the troll

        2. Another Cat says:

          Dear TBS
          When someone writes and persists in a very common misunderstanding about narcissism or empathy on this blog,
          many of us regulars feel tired and therefore very relieved when HG corrects that misbelief. With the likebutton we express this relief.

          I do know however that likebuttons in general can be used for bullying, especially on facebook etc. Usually by ppl who don’t know the subject themselves, but just want to get at someone.

          1. TBS says:

            For the UMPTEENTH time peoples .. the premise of my originating question is not to do with simply “liking” comments, nor does it refer some regular Narcsite bloggers’ misplaced belief in their own specialness.
            BTW, I am not a saint.

        3. Contagious says:

          Well then my dear, we have to agree to disagree with HG;) that’s easy;)

        4. Contagious says:

          One last comment and maybe it will help TBS. HG has disagreed with me. He was quite open about a significant dream I had saying it was a coincidence. I disagree. He has joked with me and laughed at my poor Santanas demise lol. The point is who cares? You come to HIS blog. There is the expectancy that he can do what he wants and we can leave. Perhaps best to leave it and join or not join in this blog as you see fit. I hope you do, it’s a great blog. And everyone can express themselves BUT it’s his blog. So maybe the best approach is to agree to disagree with all and decide if you want to continue. If you do, I am not offended by anything you have said and welcome you! It’s a free world, right? First Amendment and all that and we are all adults here who can respect an opinion that differs from our own and there is so much new and exciting material that it goes on and on. I loved the latest contagion YouTube where a contagion meets a psychopath in the Forrest. I was married to one diagnosed as ASD. He does not come close to the real deal. I have met 2-3 in my career and it was so good credibly close to my feelings and encounters unlike another, you don’t forget them. One was so intense, his eyes on me, I had to shower after a deposition and shuddered inside when stepping into a room with him. A mob lawyer. Not the mob. Rich, not an ounce of fat on a perfectly sculpted body, handsome, extremely bright and I don’t know if others felt it but he radiated a piercing intensity like none I had ever known. It felt like a rapist. I have never been raped but he made me feel close after a day of deposition. He would walk around the room like a commanding officer even stand behind me. As much as he got my curiosity, he was curious about me. I knew that. Who is this little blond Barbie who thinks she can challenge me. I was dismissive the entire time so he sent me motion after motion after motion tying up my time and energy. My client was a vet who took meds. Tough but medicated. I would point out his award winning military experience at every turn. Showing the monster he was. Taking breaks over objections I was coaching ( I may have) but my response was this dedicated navy senior needed a break, getting my client water, and together we both remained firm in our position. The case settled. The monster was terse in his offer. Not much after. I was left like in HGs rendition feeling he moved on. THANK GOD. In my 32 year experience in practicing in 4 states, licensed in 2, I have never encountered such a man and hope I never will. No one has ever broke into my home to leaving Mexican beers and cigarettes in my home, a dead rat in my garage ( ok maybe natural death? ) or intimidated witnesses like him. BUT like in HG YouTube I must admit, I was curious. I wanted to know. I wanted to understand. I could feel a human way deep in there. I would try to draw it out but was met with hate. I tried to talk to him about the case but somehow it was not about the case but about him and me and who would win and…. He didn’t get me at all. He was always trying to figure me out. So glad we settled and he moved on. Odd I found myself reach a deep sense of calm to handle him to go deep to my inner essence. Just like HG described. I never do that really in ordinary cases. HG is the best. I have no idea how he “ gets it” completely in once in a lifetime or rare pairings. At least for me I have had 2-3 in my life in meeting this type of dark person but all three were different. Two were goat eyed. Not the one I discussed he was like penetrating ice or a rapist stare. Odd but there you go. I am no expert as to why.

          1. HG Tudor