Ever presence. A hugely important element of the narcissistic relationship. We must create it in order to ensure that you are prevented from moving on and to maximise our prospects of executing a successful post escape or post discard hoover. Ever presence is the act of making us seem like we are still with you, even though we are not physically proximate to you. It is a necessary device so that we remain in your thoughts, we loom large in your memories and we permeate each day as you try to survive without us. Ever presence is highly effective because it is woven into the fabric of our engagement so that it infects all of your senses. We want you to feel us when you hear some music, we want you to think of us when there is a certain fragrance in the air, we want you to recall us when you see a particular item or watch a film, we want you to remember us when your fingers wrap around a particular object and we want you to sense us with you when you taste a drink or a meal. We do not just want our memory to spring from one item alone but from repeated reminders of what we had together. Largely ever presence is created so you remember the good, so you hark back to the golden period and experience that sense of yearning which causes you to break no contact. There are times when ever presence can be a reminder of the bad times as well although this is rarer and might only be done and activated for the purpose of malign hoovers.

What is going through our mind though when ever presence is created? Is it a conscious act? Do we plan it? Do we consider how best to achieve ever presence or is it just sheer coincidence that it happens, a result of the powerful emotions that we evoke in you that just happen to be imprinted with relatively run of the mill and mundane occurrences? Are you culpable for the creation of ever presence by falling so deeply and intensely in love with us that you place such emotional stock in certain songs, events and places? Is it all planned and orchestrated, a dark grand design that is wheeled out as part of our ongoing and calculated manipulation of you?

The Lesser, as you might expect, creates the least powerful ever presence. This is as a consequence of two factors. The first is that he does not act through calculation but rather through instinct. He will know that picking a nick name for you, choosing “our song” and sending you a few gifts is part of how the romancing should proceed but he gives little thought as to how this will impact on you. Secondly, the weaving of ever presence occurs through the seduction phase as a consequence of the creation of all these marvellous memories. The Lesser does not so much go in for love-bombing but rather keeps the beast under lock and key during the golden period (which might be better named as the bronze period for the Lesser Narcissist). Since there is less in the way of love-bombing it follows that there is less sowing of the ever presence. The Lesser does however gain a distinct advantage over the other two schools as a consequence of this approach. The paucity of ever presence items means that when you happen upon one it has particular resonance. He may not have been overly romantic during the seduction but the fact that he baked some chocolate muffins for you and they became his signature dish means that the memory is especially strong with such an item. The fact that he would only slow dance with you to one particular song means that should you ever hear that song again, the recollection of dancing cheek to cheek is powerful indeed. None of this arises from calculation. The Lesser does the bare minimum when it comes to the seduction. Taken further, when dealing with the Victim Narcissist (who is usually a Lesser and occasionally a Mid-Range) you actually contribute to the creation of ever presence. This happens because you made certain dishes that he enjoyed and therefore should you make them now, it will remind you of how he praised you for making that delicious pie or tasty lasagne. It might be that every Sunday he took his weekly bath and you would scrub his back and wash his hair for him, pandering to the mothering instinct that many Victim Narcissists require. Each week at 7pm on a Sunday you will be moved to think that this was the time when you would tend to him in the bathroom. Thus the demands and the needs of the Lesser become a form of ever presence in themselves.

The Mid-Range, similarly lacking awareness, does not know that he is creating ever presence. He does however have enough about him to know that making a good effort during seduction will win him the prize that he requires and he will make good use of all the usual tangible effects which go into creating ever presence. He will sow them through the seduction. He will endeavour to mirror your likes and dislikes but he will also use his ability to evoke pity to good effect in the creation of ever presence. For instance, he may choose certain songs which he claims are representative of his desire for you. You may not actually like the songs that much, perhaps they are a different musical genre to the ones you like, but you are still pleased that he has taken the time to send these songs to you and to make them part of what constitutes “you and him”. Accordingly, these songs take on a particular resonance as they become representative of the relationship. You could not bear to tell him that you found Luther Vandross or Michael Buble corny, he sidled up to you simpering and cooing, so you went with the flow and allowed them to be woven into the relationship until they mattered. The Mid-Range places particular emphasis on wooing his victim (whereas the Greater bowls the victim over with his magnificence) and as part of this wooing he will ensure that he looks presentable, takes the victim to special places and treats the victim well, offering gifts and other favours. All of this wooing creates the ever presence which is a happy side effect from the behaviour of the Mid-Range.

The Greater sets out to establish ever presence with his victims. He knows of his addictive quality and wants to get you hooked. He deliberately ascertains what you like not only in order to mirror you as perfectly as possible but also to gather ammunition for the purposes of creating the ever presence. The Greater knows that for ever presence to be effective it must span the five senses and be regularly imprinted so the victim is conditioned. The Greater also knows that the grander the gesture and of course he is all about the grandiosity, the more likely it is to have an imprinting effect. By combining this with repetition and the breadth and depth of the use of all five senses, the ever presence created by the Greater is formidable indeed. The Greater also goes further because he not only will lace where you live with so much ever presence but he will endeavour to infect other places as well. The place you work, the places you dine, the places you like to shop, to go walking, go cycling and so forth. During the seduction, each time the Greater does something new with his victim he will be looking to imprint his presence on the event. It might be carving the initials on a tree beneath which you sat holding hands, it might be naming the view after you both when you halted on a mountain bike ride. It could be asking a bar man to create a cocktail in your name or ensuring that you are recognised and called by name by the maitre’d at certain establishments.

The Greater knows exactly what he is doing when he creates ever presence. Not only this, he has done it so many times with other victims he knows that it is effective. He already has a template which he applies. A template of songs, fragrances, textures, places and tastes that he uses for each victim. He might vary some of the items within this template, but often they are the same. He will ensure that his cologne is distinct and unusual, that there are key songs that embody the relationship, he will leave a particular piece of clothing with you early on which is pleasant to touch, he will ensure there are signature bars, restaurants, walks and such like. This imprinting will continue in the bedroom where he will perhaps unveil a particular word or phrase which is unusual (to you) which he uses on the point of orgasm (yours or his) or as a safe word. He will murmur something in your ear and touch you in a particular way, when combining with music in the same way to ensure that your sensations are heightened so that when you hear that song, you not only think of the Greater but you hear his voice in your ear and his breath on your neck. All of it is calculated and planned, even though there may not be vast differences between what is applied to each of his victims. After all, if it works and is efficient, he will go along with it.

208 thoughts on “EverPresence

  1. foolme1time says:

    NA OMG! That was great!! Sorry HG! 🤣🤣🤣

  2. foolme1time says:

    Ha ha! Oh enjoy it HG, at least you don’t have the smell! 🙃

  3. Lori says:

    The photo you used for this post is very telling. Because the narcissist uses the phone and specifically text as a weapon, the mere sight of your phone or the sound of a of a text message coming in creates ever presence and can induce anxiety. The phone is almost a way of shackeking you to them. It’s the portal that transports you into or expels you from their narcissistic world

    1. Joanne says:

      So true. I also felt like I was living within a world inside my phone during that time. The messaging was nonstop for weeks, back and forth. And when they slowed down, every ping on the phone sent my anxiety soaring.

  4. foolme1time says:

    Has anyone heard from MB today? I haven’t seen her on for a few days, unless I’ve missed her?!

    1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dear foolme1time ,
      I noticed MB posted a comment on feb 26th “getting out”
      Where is everyone ? It’s been so quiet !
      I’ve been here since 2017….how tragic is that …. 😭🤣
      I just took a sneak peak at “questioning me” 😱😱whoa !!! 917 comments
      I have to be completely strong and confident before I can set myself free ….. however there’s still so much to learn
      I see narcissism at its peak everywhere and I see red flags everywhere
      Everyone to me is a narc until proven innocent
      I like your dialogue about the horses foolme1time 🐴
      It’s lovely to be on a long journey with you and others …. very reassuring as we grow, learn and exchange together …. best therapy ever 😊
      Keep posting gorgeous …. we luv it
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      Ps ….
      Mr Tudor, do you know the update on Tammy ?
      Mr Tudor, for all us “Old Scholars” …..it would be great to give us a quick school report or progress report ..that would be fun ! 😘

      1. foolme1time says:

        Aww Bubbles! You truly are wonderful! 😘

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear foolme1time,
          Mwah 💋
          Thank you precious, you’re too kind
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    2. MB says:

      FM1T, awww! It’s so sweet that you’ve missed me. I’m around. (kind of) No contact has me distancing myself from tech. I’m an all or nothing kind of girl. Feast or famine. Right now, it’s famine. For me and most importantly for Narc. Ha Ha (Bless his little shriveled heart!)

      1. foolme1time says:

        You go girl!! 😘

        1. MB says:

          FM1T, Thank you! Yep, he ignored me two times too many. I’m done! I packed up my toys and left his sandbox. His loss. Next time he reaches for the box labeled MB on the shelf, he will realize it’s EMPTY! Keep on shaking it buddy. You’re blocked! 99 Problems (But a narc ain’t one)

          HG, can you record 99 Probs on YT? Please?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            My homie will lay down some cool riffs ya feel me (and words to that effect)!

          2. MB says:

            What would be really dope is some HG beatboxing!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I do that – minus the beat.

          4. foolme1time says:

            HG you box?! Wow! I love it!!

          5. foolme1time says:

            MB Good for you! You are absolutely wonderful and don’t need him! You can do this!! It really is his loss! Given up those narc sprinkles might be tough at first, but hey add some sprinkle to your strawberry and shake things up!! 😘😘

          6. MB says:

            FM1T, thank you! I’m not going to lie though, I miss the sprinkles! It just got to the point that the anxiety price I paid was too high. I guess I reached what HG calls the “tipping point”. I told myself it didn’t bother me. And it didn’t. Until it did.

          7. foolme1time says:

            MB I understand, I wish if I were going to attract narcs like I do. I would at least like for one time to attract one that could actually perform the way he claims that he can! 🤦🏼‍♀️

          8. Joanne says:

            I keep telling myself the same although I know it does bother me. Not as much as it did before, only a fraction of that… But I know what you’re saying. At some point you know when you’ve had enough. Good for you for Hang in there girl! <3

          9. foolme1time says:

            MB It always bothers us, it just never bothers them! 😪

          10. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Omg I knew you were in Benidorm!

      2. WhoCares says:

        Good for you MB!!!

        1. MB says:

          Thank you WhoCares! I reached the point of fuck you and the horse you rode in on. No offense to the horse!

          1. WhoCares says:

            Hahaha MB – “No offense to the horse!”

  5. Joanne says:

    What is it with narcs that don’t like to BATHE? I read a lot about that on one of my former support forums. WTH?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They stink. Bad. Most likely Lesser.

      1. Joanne says:

        I was shocked to see how many women on one of the support forums (wallowing holes) complained about this. And their descriptions of their narcs definitely aligned with that of a lesser. I just can’t believe how common FLITH is with this group! 🤮

        1. NarcAngel says:

          I’m more shocked at those who accept the lack of hygiene. They may as well slap a sticker on their forehead that says: I accept very little for myself.

          1. Joanne says:

            Yes, that too. As if it’s not bad enough that your partner is treating you terribly, but he’s also dirty and disgusting while doing so.

          2. K says:

            One of my female lessers weighed about 500 pounds (35 stones) and shit and pissed herself while she was drove. I referred to her car as the mobile latrine.

          3. Joanne says:

            That is insane. You’ve made me wonder now…my stepfather was definitely a narc. I would think of him as a UMR. Now I’m beginning to wonder if he was actually an UL or at the very least had lesser tendencies. He was a very educated man, had an MBA and a good job (until he no longer could hold a job to due alcoholism). But he was a bit of a hoarder. And he became almost filthy and disgusting as the years went by. He definitely had some very disgusting habits. Definitely never a dull moments with these narcs. Ugh.

          4. K says:

            That behaviour was considered “normal”. I thought it was mental.

            Any school/cadre is capable of hoarding. It could be shoes, yachts, classic cars, cats, junk mail or garbage.

            If your stepfather was very well educated, had a good job and facade then he was either a(n) MMRN or a(n) UMRN. When he lost his job (wounding), it adversely affected his fuel matrix and he may have experienced a fuel crisis. The hoarding was about his need for control and the fuel it could possibly generate by disgusted/shocked family members and the ensuing battles to clean up the mess. Ha ha ha… never a dull moment with these personalities.

            HG Tudor
            OCTOBER 4, 2016 AT 09:08
            Hello Violet, if our fuel goes too low we enter a depressed state. A restlessness which is akin to anxiety is experienced when fuel stocks start to dwindle.

          5. Claire says:

            Hilarious NA. Sad but true. At least all the former narcs were nuts over hygiene!

        2. K says:

          I grew up in filth and squalor. My mother is a(n) LLN. Hoarding and dirty houses are red flags.

          1. Joanne says:

            😞 I’m sorry to hear that, K.

          2. K says:

            Thank you Joanne.
            And, they trash pick too. Always an adventure with the narcissists.

        3. FYC says:

          Disgusting! Clean is a must. Why on earth did they stay?

          I am so sorry to hear your background. That would be so overwhelming and gross. I envision you as the direct opposite. Strong, smart and of course clean! lol Yikes, I take for granted clean is a given.

          When you say “One of my lessers” do you mean people you know or family? There is no way I would get within 100 miles of a latrine mobile!

          So sorry you dealt with this and hope you no longer do.

          1. K says:

            Thank you FYC,
            I am the direct opposite of my lesser narcissists and avoid them like the plague.

            Ha ha ha…no one should venture near the Mobile Latrine, if they value their sanity. They were family “friends” (appliances) and the one who drove the ML would pull her car into the driveway for cookouts and have piles of food brought to her because it was very difficult for her to get in and out of her car or go up/down stairs.

            Always an adventure with the narcissists!

          2. FYC says:

            K, I have never encountered that level of gross behavior (thank God) and hope I never do. Hearing the story is so repulsive. You certainly are the opposite and I have no idea how you managed to thrive so well. You amaze me. You are too strong, intelligent and self-respecting to be related to those disgusting lessers. Perhaps the hospital mistakenly swapped babies at birth, and some neat, clean family has a slob they will never understand😝

          3. K says:

            Thank you, FYC
            Ha ha ha…clean family has a slob they will never understand; that was funny…ha ha ha.
            Part of the reason why I thrived so well: instinctively I knew to GTFO of the house and stay on the streets where it was safe AND sane. Sometimes, there are no words to describe them. But now I understand the reasons why.

            My motto: slowly, back away from the lessers, then turn around and run as fast as you can.

          4. FYC says:

            Dear K,

            Sorry for the late reply, I am having trouble getting notifications back online.

            I just want to say bravo to you! Your wisdom is excellent and your instincts spot on. So glad you are here and survived all of that and remain strong.

          5. K says:

            Thank you, FYC!
            Don’t worry about the RSVPs on the comments. Mine are going into two different mailboxes so I have missed some.

          6. FYC says:

            Good to know, thank you, K.

    2. ava101 says:

      Interesting, K!

      I have had the opposite experience. With most.
      Extremely clean and possessed of personal hygiene. One thing I liked about certain individuals in fact.

      1. K says:

        Were they lessers? Some of my higher functioning narcissists have picture perfect houses, attractive cars, pools, manicured lawns, etc. That’s facade maintenance.

        1. Claire says:

          Where did the incontinent 500 lb lesser come into play? I’d have to roll that one out the car and over a hill.

          1. K says:

            She would offer my empath sister a ride home!!! Ha ha ha…..my sister always declined.

            Two of my morbidly obese female lessers regularly shit/pissed themselves. One would menstruate all over the living room furniture and walk around with a visible log-o-shit in her pants like it was nothing. That was their normal.

            I am going with: sense of entitlement (it’s my party, and I will shit (myself) if I want to), which is linked to lack of accountability and think of the negative fuel that shitting/pissing/menstruating yourself would generate! The facial expressions….shock, disgust, horror! Pee-yew!

          2. Claire says:

            Holy shit K. I work with the lowest of the lowest and this display would be an abhorrent anomaly. I think if people get this bad or out of control with behavior they cease being human.

          3. K says:

            Ha ha ha….holy shit is right! One of them hoarded bags of trash-floor to ceiling-so there was a serious mouse infestation and, when they finally cleaned out her home, the Mouse Tapper caught approx. 400 mice.

            The worst local case that I read about was a woman who hid three dead babies in her House of Horrors. I strongly suspect that she was a lesser.

          4. Twilight says:


            After reading your comments I need therapy…..that is so disgusting

          5. K says:

            It is very disturbing.

            Dirty hygiene, lice, scabies, public defecation/pissing, needles (heroin), cocaine, alcohol, hookers, putting cigarette butts out on the carpets or furniture and hoarding was “the norm” for me BUT I didn’t think it was normal. That was my environment.

            This falls under Lack of Control Environment (LOCE).

          6. Twilight says:


            I understand the environment.

            I have walked on both sides of the law and seen shit many here can only imagine. I have been face to face with men who will put a gun to your head and if you think about flinching well let’s just say you don’t have much to worry about, seen woman who whore themselves out for a 50 rock just to escape the hell they are in yet not recognizing the hell it is keeping them in, men and women who can’t even comprehend they still have needles still in their arms, men who traffic more then drugs and those who will slit another’s throat because they get off on the convulsions the woman’s body has as she bleeds out.

            I have seen some of the most vile atrocities man will do onto another and why we need men like HG.

            I pull a weapon out…..one of us is going to the morgue.

            I am slightly angry and may need a consult with you HG.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            I look forward to speaking with you as ever Twilight and shall await to hear from you.

          8. Twilight says:


            As soon as I am ready, I have a personal issue to deal with first…..

          9. K says:

            The brutality is breathtaking. Sometimes, there are no words that can explain what we have been through, so we often remain silent, but HG’s blog has effectively translated the horror that each of us have lived so we can understand with complete clarity and, hopefully, move forward.

            One of us is going to the morgue. I understand that completely. My money is on you making it out alive.

          10. Twilight says:


            So far I have made it out alive….

            My life is boring now in comparison and I am just fine with that.

          11. K says:

            Boring is fucking beautiful! The library is beautiful because it is so quiet AND the Art Museum is quiet and peaceful so that place is wonderful, too.

          12. Twilight says:


            I use to live in the library ( I was such a nerd 🤓) and love the museums!!!!

          13. K says:

            Sanctuary and the beach is another safe place.

          14. Claire says:

            I for real had to assault a family of mice in my garage awhile back. It was horrible. Then my cat carried a dead one into the house. I paid my daughter $25 to clean it up. I didn’t even know the cat could hunt—spoiled house cat that snuck out. Who knew?

          15. K says:

            Ha ha ha…cats are great hunters. Our cat has brought me two snakes, one small rabbit, several birds, a mouse and a vole. It is like living with Puss in Boots.

          16. Claire says:

            He turned up missing for a week awhile back—he sneaks out when he can. It was a pet FBI post, flyers, etc. He probably had the time of his life.

          17. MommyPino says:

            K, all of your descriptions bring back so many memories of my childhood lol. It was so hard to be raised by a single parent narc during puberty. I’m so thankful for teachers who bought me sanitary napkins and deodorant and told my mom that I need to start wearing bras because I have been developing earlier than my classmates and the boys were staring at me. Teachers that care are always a blessing. I love teachers. Anyway, now I drive my husband crazy for being extremely clean. He thinks I’m nuts.

            About 3 years ago when I visited my mom I took her with me to a nice hotel so she gets to experience little luxuries like that. I was shocked to see a yellow liquid in the bathtub as I was about to give my son a bath. She fessed up that she peed in the tub because she didn’t want to get an STD from sitting in a toilet that other people have used. Things like that really drive me insane. I’m shocked sometimes that I have never become violent.

          18. Claire says:

            You are incredibly bright and lovely MommyPino to have dealt with this. You should be incredibly proud of who you are. I agree about teachers.

          19. K says:

            Puberty is a fiasco with narcissists. Your teachers were very kind and I am happy to read that you had their support during your childhood. It is very sad when children don’t get the support that they need during adolescence and many kind teachers are under appreciated.

            Ha ha ha….I don’t think you are nuts at all. I am the opposite of a hoarder (minimalist) and I went through a clean-freak phase after I moved out of my mother’s house but I am more relaxed about housework now.

            Peeing in the tub is definitely a “lesser move”. She reminds me of my mother. I think her fear of getting an STD from the toilet is indicative of paranoia. My mother was VERY paranoid and pulled stunts similar to your mother’s.

            Violence is interesting because it affects each of us in different ways and this is where GPD and LOCE have the biggest impact. This comment re: violence makes sense to me. Violence is about control.

            HG Tudor
            MAY 9, 2019 AT 16:05
            Bullying is negative fuel, but is Challenge Fuel. The response through violence is an attempt to assert control once again.

          20. MommyPino says:

            Thank you Claire. I was blessed to have other people care about me. It’s an inspiration and a good reason to pay it forward. I don’t know where those people who have been my angels are anymore but I hope that they were also blessed for their kindness.

          21. Claire says:

            I think there is a lot of value in paying it forward.

          22. FYC says:

            Twilight, you amaze me. I cannot imagine you working in law enforcement and seeing all of what you have in combination with your massive empath abilities. So incredibly draining!! No wonder you are stressed and stretched to the limit. I hope you segue into a different line of work where you can find more peace and joy. Take care, and thank you for service. Sending you much compassion.

        2. mommypino says:

          Hi K, WordPress didn’t inform me of your response. Glad I went back here to look.

          My mom does have paranoia aside from NPD. That’s actually one reason why I didn’t think that she had NPD because I diagnosed her with paranoia when I took a semester of business psychology and I learned about personality disorders. I didn’t think that NPD applied to her because my psychology class was just an overview on everything and NPD was described there more like the traditional covert narcissists which was different from her because she’s a Victim Narc. It really is brilliant the way HG classified them in schools and cadres. It was perfect. But yeah, she has paranoia too. It was so hard to live with her. Was your mother a Lower Lesser as well? We may have had similar childhood experiences lol. It’s difficult to live with someone that has paranoia. We had to lock everything in multiple ways every time we left the house. If I forgot to lock something that was supposed to be locked I would get in so much trouble. She also believed that people invade our house when we leave so she locked our shampoo and conditioner and food like salt and ketchup etc. We were always home because it’s always so difficult to go anywhere with her.

          Re violence is to control, I think I have long ago given up in trying to control her lol. She’s like a wrecking ball. That’s one of the things that got me convinced that I’m not a Co-D because they also behave to control and controlling people is just something that I have given up on and no desire for because of my experience with my mom. Nobody can control her. She would always defy even in small ways.

          1. K says:

            No worries. I have missed comments or responded late, too. It can be difficult to keep track of them. My mother and father were both LLNs and my childhood was very violent and your comments remind me of my mother and my childhood because there are similarities. My mother was paranoid and VERY lazy and she would lock me out of the house sometimes or accuse me of doing things that I didn’t do.

            Lessers are giant wrecking balls that plunder, rape and pillage their way through life. I don’t get the CoD vibe from you at all; I think you are a Standard Empath. Your mother will not be controlled, she will manipulate to assert control or withdraw. GOSO is the only way to go.

          2. mommypino says:

            Gosh K, we really have so many similarities with our family background. And I never thought that I would ever find someone who would have any idea about my situation growing up. That’s why my friends doesn’t really know my whole story, because I never bothered to confide in them. I knew that they will never understand because it’s so whacked. My friends notice that my mom is weird but they are also very polite to not tell me even though I see their faces cringe when my mom said or did something weird in front of them.
            My mom is also extremely lazy and just wanted to stay home and watch TV with me all day. Right now she is causing all kinds of problems with her tuberculosis fiasco. My mom told me on the phone that she will not get sick again because she will make sure that she stays alive for me. She said that I am the reason why she wants to stay alive. My husband told me to tell her to not bother. 😂. She’s so mean to the relatives who have been trying to help her. She just made my oldest alive aunt cry yesterday because she visited my mom and brought grapes because my mom is recovering from TB only for my mom to scream at her and throw the grapes against the wall. I feel bad for them and I told them about my mom but they insist on helping my mom because my mom helped them financially before when my dad was still sending my mom money to support me. They said that there is something good inside of my mom that’s why she helped them before. It is hard to explain to them about the pathology as a lot of them are illiterate and doesn’t even speak English nor have had enough background knowledge to grasp concepts related to the pathology. They are very sweet and simple farmers.
            If my mom has any other means to live or source of money I would totally GOSO but she doesn’t and it feels hypocritical to donate to other people but allow my mom to starve and live on the streets. I agree with WhoCares to not take other people’s burdens but I’m putting my mom as an exception because of her extremely low cognitive abilities and lack of ability to survive on her own. I also know that still love her but not in an emotional way as I’m not allowing myself to be emotional when it comes to her. It’s a different kind of love. It’s inside me but with barbed wire and concrete fences protecting it lol.

            I am very confused about the schools of empaths. I feel that I have a bit of everything. I can relate to the codependent’s inherent attraction to narcissists and ability to soak up so much abuse except for the part of being unable to function or having to be hospitalized in the end. I have never been to the point where I felt broken. I feel that I have this ability in me to recharge myself fast before I get to the point where I am broken. And also I am still unsure what ‘broken’ or ‘malfunctioning’ really means. Is a broken or malfunctioning empath the angry empath who doesn’t want to put up with crap anymore and will now venture in demanding respect so therefore the narc sees them as broken or malfunctioning in terms of being an appliance even though they are not broken or malfunctioning in other areas of themselves that has nothing to do with the narcissist? Or does broken and malfunctioning mean that the empath is really broken and malfunctioning as a person like extremely depressed and suicidal? If the latter is the case, it has never happened to me so that takes me out of the codependent school. But I believe that I have a tendency to be all out when I give. People in my life have said to me throughout my life that I always go above and beyond. My husband has said to me and to his kids that I have done more things for his kids than anyone else ever has. So in that part, I am similar to the codependent because unlike Super Empaths, I tolerated a lot of the abuse and still stayed or allowed myself to get sucked back in multiple times in hopes of a better outcome instead of bidding for an escape. But also unlike the Standard Empaths, my efforts didn’t decline as time went on, in fact my efforts became larger each time I got hoovered back because I was shooting for a better outcome. So my residual benefits and positive fuel provision have actually increased over time until I just decided to do a complete GOSO on my stepdaughters because I have accepted that they will never change and protecting my little kids from their treatment of them is more important than aiming for the realization of my husband’s dream of everybody getting along and holidays full of happy kids (his kids and grandkids together). Actually he has told me lately that he now thinks it’s a wise decision to separate his two families (us and his previous kids) because there is now no stress anymore. Although they still treat him poorly but he has unconditional love for them so he can take it. I also think that I have a Geyser in me that when I am hit I am really emotional about it but I recover so fast after I have a good cry and sleep. That is probably why my efforts or provision of fuel and residual benefits didn’t decline like Standars Empaths or Codependents were described to do because after I recover, I’m back to normal again and also I am not good at holding grudges because of this. Sometimes I get in a fight with people and after I have said my piece and cried about it, they get surprised that I’m back to talking to them again as if nothing happened which I noticed makes them suspicious of my sincerity. Although I’m not exactly like a Geyser either because I’m not histrionic in person. My personality is more reserved and relaxed although I am extrovert that I love talking to people, I am not loud. In a few months I want to do an Empath Detector. It would be interesting to see what will be the result of my answers to the questions in that test.

          3. K says:

            We share very similar experiences and I completely understand your situation and how you felt growing up with a lesser mother. It really is an awful experience and it isn’t always easy to articulate because it is so whacked and my friends didn’t believe me when I tried to tell them about the abuse so I stopped talking about it, however, it was very evident that my mother wasn’t “normal” (from my POV).

            My mother would sleep on the couch all the time, like a beached whale, farting and snoring so loudly that I couldn’t watch the Dukes of Hazzard so I would hurl pillows at her while she slept and they would bounce off her fat ass. God, that was fun.

            You mother’s tuberculosis fiasco is a fuel grab and the reason she wants to stay alive for you (read: for herself) is to harvest the Prime Aims from you. Ha ha ha…your husband is funny; telling her not to bother is challenge fuel…ha ha ha. She is entitled to stay alive and collect her due and no one is going to tell her otherwise.

            That financial help is excellent binding and it is working very well because your mother got some potent negative proximate fuel from your aunt and the only thing inside your mother is The Creature and that isn’t good. Some people will never understand so, I think, this is a case of let sleeping dogs lie.

            You are an empath and you don’t want to see her starve or live on the streets and those are your traits of decency and compassion coming to the fore. I know what you mean about the love, the barbed wire and concrete, although our love is unconditional, we have to put up boundaries to protect ourselves and that is self-preservation/love.

            The Empath Schools can be a bit confusing, honestly, the Empath Detector is the way to go. I was so confused that I had a consult and I am a Standard/Carrier empath. Even though your fuel provision didn’t decline, it does become stale and broken and malfunctioning means you are no longer providing fuel, traits or benefits at an acceptable level so off to the scrap heap you must go. This article may help you understand it better.


          4. mommypino says:

            Thank you K, I haven’t seen this comment before. It is funny how you described your mom because that’s exactly like my mom. She would lie down on the couch all day and watch TV. I didn’t have a separate room so I had to study with the TV on.

            I agree that it has been a fuel grab for my mom. It is terrible. I have been coaching my cousins the best way I can. They still finding it unbelievable but they do remember her abusing them when they were young too.

            Regarding the Empath Detector, I think I’m totally fine not finding out my school and cadre. I might even be a Normal. I just want to focus on being the best version of myself that I can be and taking care of myself. I see people who outed themselves as Standard Empaths and some as Super Empaths and I think that you’re all very kind, has high moral compass and full of empathy. I don’t recognize a big difference except for a few unique personality differences. I’m also confused if the school of Empaths is supposed to be a hierarchy. If it is, I don’t want to partake in it. I have seen some Super Empaths comment in a way that it infers they are superior or stronger etc. I will not acquiesce to that. I know my own strength and I don’t need a label to validate that. But I think that you and I are both amazing survivors. Not a lot of people can keep their sanity after being raised by Lessers lol.

          5. Lou says:

            I agree with and like your comment, MP.

          6. K says:

            Have you read Sitting Target? That explains the schools very well. I think you are definitely an empath. The schools are not a hierarchy; they are just schools, nothing more nothing less.

            It is very easy to get confused and I think many people put themselves in the SE category because they identify with it and, if you think about it, who doesn’t want to be Super? It feels good, like being Superwo(man). And I think it is harmless and may even be a good thing because, after being powerless for so long, people need to feel powerful and in control and that may facilitate their recovery. Once your ET clears up, then you realize you are not a SE but a standard and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

            Ha ha ha…sometimes there are no words that can describe what it is like being raised by lessers. We are survivors, that’s for sure.

          7. mommypino says:

            Thank you K. I have read the book a few times. I have identified to all of the schools at different points. I honestly don’t believe that I have ever surrendered my power to anyone. My situations were unique because non of my entanglements have been romantic. They were all NISS of NIPS. My culture where familial relationships are given very high value affected the way I handled it. The unique situation of me being the secret love child that was revealed to my MRE sister is also a unique situation. I was in the position of being the outsider trying to ingratiate myself to her. I was very cautious of not rocking the boat or causing more turmoil to them than my presence or the revelation of my existence after their mom passed away already had. I was also an outsider trying to ingratiate myself to my stepdaughters. I have asserted boundaries from the beginning in the most diplomatic way and then eventually fought back but I was always careful to not destroy them because I didn’t want to hurt their dad. I can see in his eyes how much he loves those girls. He is really the main reason why I did everything that I did for them. Those were very complicated situations to handle for anyone. At first I thought that I was a doormat but I recognized that it was just my ET after talking to my husband. He said that I have always been opinionated and demanding from the start. He said that if I was a doormat then there wouldn’t have been all of those fights and power struggles because a doormat is somebody who rarely if any complains and even smiles while he or she is being taken advantage of. When I was new here I identified with the Super Empath because of the way it was described. But when I learned that they are rare I had to reconsider because the thought of me being one of the rare people makes me uncomfortable and I don’t believe that I would be that different from people. I thought maybe I’m a Standard close to the Codependent side of the scale. But I am annoyed at the perceived hierarchy as well. And some of the descriptions do not apply to me. I think I may be an Empath but I may also be a Normal because I’m not always that nice. I think I will just be ok to not find out. And thank you K for all of the help in trying to figure it out. It’s just that I am still evolving as a person and I would just prefer to not find out so that there is more suspense in my life lol.

          8. NarcAngel says:

            To clarify:

            This comment is not directed to MommyPino but rather resulted from my thoughts after something she raised in hers.

            I don’t see the empath classes as hierarchy at all. Just a system to differentiate. All empaths are not the same just as narcissists are not all the same, so it’s easier broken down and explains why we do not all respond the same to certain manipulations, why our tolerance levels differ, or a difference in ability to move on for example. People placing more value on being a Super Empath or being with a Greater is ridiculous when you think about it. It is abuse at different levels or affects some differently, but in the end it is all abuse. Why would anyone want to be in a category they believe to be most desired by an abuser or be proud of being abused by the most calculating of them? For those guessing or who place any stock in hierarchy I mean. I believe It is far better to know conclusively by having HG confirm for you so that you can better apply the information in the articles and how it applies to you, how to identify those characteristics that made you a target and prevent you from becoming one again, and helping you to see where you fit in the fuel matrix. The same is true for the Narc Detector to determine what exactly you are dealing with and the best course of action, escape, dealing with courts and children etc. A self-appointed title (usually an incorrect one) that appeals to ego or as any part of hierarchy is of no use to anyone.

            I have been confirmed by HG in consultation to be a Super Empath. It helped me to understand many things, one being that I have higher and more numerous narc traits than others but that I am not a narcissist. He explained the difference between someone being narcissistic and being a narcissist quite clearly where I was confused previously. It has also clarified why I sometimes have/had difficulty relating to those in other groups (communication styles, emotional vs logical thinking, levels of tolerance, etc) so I found it most helpful and highly recommend it. You will read the material in a different light and it can help you relate to others differently due to the understanding.

            So, I am a Super Empath. Other than knowing for benefit to self – so what? Do I consider myself to be better than anyone else? Fuck no. Have I ever been intimately involved with a Greater or do I aspire to? No. Anyone jealous of the abuse I endured in my childhood (and beyond) that likely played a part in me becoming a Super Empath rather than a Narcissist but having a life affected by narcissism all the same?

            Didn’t think so.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            Correct, it is not a hierarchy as in one empath school is superior to another, the classes exist because of different traits and behaviours and their applicability to different types of schools and cadres of narcissists.

          10. Lou says:

            While I agree and believe that there is no hierarchy in the empath’s schools and classes you have created to explain dynamics better, I think there is a hierarchy in the perception of the readers. It is a fact that some traits are more desirable than others and our egos may accept them as being part of ourselves more readily than the less desirable ones. But that’s not making us any favour because it may just be slowing down our progress, our understanding of why we got entangled with a narcissist and how we relate to others.
            My point is, I think it is a good thing to have this debate and reminder that there is no hierarchy but just archetypes designed to help us see why and how we dance with narcissists.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            I consider those to be valid observations.

          12. NarcAngel says:

            Absolutely Lou.

          13. K says:

            The empath’s ET is corrupting his/her narcissistic trait of pride in this instance. These debates are very important because they help clear up the confusion caused by our emotional thinking.

          14. Lou says:

            I must add that rarity has always been a factor to value something higher than something more abundant (gold for instance). The moment something is rare (such as the greater or the SE) there is more value put on that something in the perception of humans. Is gold more valuable than say iron? No, but we make it so.

          15. K says:

            I agree; they are just schools. One isn’t any better than the other but, when ET is high, it can be difficult to figure out your school and people may mistakenly place themselves into the SE category and think they are entangled with a Greater when they are not. The Empath and Narc Detectors are the way to go if you can’t figure it out.

            It is a good thing there isn’t a “lesser empath” category; I wouldn’t want to be lumped in with those types.

          16. K says:

            My pleasure mommypino
            I agree, you were not an IPPS/IPSS so that makes it a little more difficult to figure out the school. You are an empath (I think) and I don’t see CoD traits in your comments; you do not come across as a doormat at all. I think you speak up and express yourself, irrespective of what others think, and that is a good thing. You are not a wishy-washy-waffle.

            Empaths aren’t always nice, sometimes, we have empathy erosion and our narcissistic traits come to the fore and that’s normal. When LT takes over ET then it all becomes clearer and the schools make more sense. You could be a SE. Keep reading because, eventually, it will click and then you will know. The Cadres were easier to decipher so focus on that for now; the School will come later.

          17. WhoCares says:


            I have been reading the exchange between you and K with interest and responded with regard to the subject of paranoia – but I tacked on a question to HG in that response so it likely remains in moderation…

            I don’t know what type of empath you are but I just want to say that I think that you have loads of integrity. And although I don’t know where HG’s perspective on integrity is that you referred to but the dictionary two has slightly different meanings…and integrity is not always the higher moral ground (which I wonder if that’s your take on it) but it is also acting from a place of strength or wholeness with honesty and consistency…’morality’ can always be judged as lacking by another of a different perspective but it is harder to judge someone who is acting ‘with integrity’ that is in accordance with their authenticity. So, in your decision to maintain contact with your mom you are excercising integrity from a stance of what feels consistently right with who you consider yourself to be and weighing your values. People could judge you on moral grounds (or judge me for going ‘no contact’ with mine) but you are acting with integrity in choosing – and explaining – your decision.

            I have gone no contact with my mom because if I’m honest with myself I can’t allow any potential damage to my son via direct contact with her – or indirect contact, by allowing my own mental health to be compromised (if I attempted contact) and have negative fallout with regard to my ability to parent effectively. (My decision may be different if my son were not in the picture.)

            Both decisions are hard; both are commendable – and both are made with integrity.

          18. mommypino says:

            Thank you WhoCares, I just realized the difference in meaning of personal integrity as you perfectly illustrated. Thank

            WhoCares I think a slight paranoia can be symptomatic with all narcs because they always have this fear of exposure and people being after them to compete with them or dethrone them. It becomes comorbid if it is a full blown paranoia like my mom’s where she really believed that the governor of her home province hires people to monitor our daily lives and report to him and harass us and cause problems for us (the problems were caused by her behaviors and everybody can see it except her). She believed that people enter our apartment when we are gone and put hair removal lotions in our shampoo and put carcinogenic substances in our salt or opened food like milk or left overs.

          19. WhoCares says:

            Wow MP, that’s some pretty significant paranoid thinking on your mom’s part and I can identify some similarities with my ex…when I think back some of the extreme examples were when he was suffering fuel shortages.

          20. mommypino says:

            WhoCares, I have some comments waiting for moderation because they have links but it’s an article that shows that Paranoid Personality is top three of the other Axis II disorders that comorbid with NPD. The top 1 is Histrionic Personality Disorder with a 53% Co-occurrence rate. I actually originally thought that my MRE sister had Histrionic Personality Disorder. Top 2 is Borderline Personality Disorder with 47% co-occurrence rate. And the top 3 is Paranoid Personality Disorder with a 36% co-occurrence rate. And I agree, the paranoia increases when there’s fuel shortage. So I bet the paranoia is more likely higher for the lower echelons of narcs with smaller fuel matrix.

          21. mommypino says:

            Also K, sorry to add to that long response. But something that HG wrote bothers me as well about the Super Empath. He said that Super Empaths have a higher integrity than all the other Empaths. I will admit that it offends me (although not enough to not like HG, I’m still a huge fan). Integrity is a huge part of me.

          22. K says:

            I think that the SE’s personal integrity is greater because her/his honor or self-respect won’t allow him/her to put up with the bullshit for an extended period of time so they, in effect, stand up for themselves and fight back much sooner than the Standard empath or CoD would.

            I hope that helps.

          23. mommypino says:

            Hi K, WordPress didn’t notify me and I just saw yours and WhoCare’s comments.
            Hmm K, I guess it depends on what integrity means. I was thinking of integrity in the Biblical definition like honesty (except towards my matrinarc and on very exceptional cases) or not having any interest in stealing even if the diamonds or cash is right in front of me and can be easily taken. I just have clear boundaries in my mind that what is not mine is not mine so it’s not even a challenge to not steal, it’s just not in my system to steal. I guess my next question is how soon is sooner? Lol. I don’t think that my husband is a SE and he’s definitely not a narc; he’s empathy is really genuine, I can tell the difference. But he does fight back or disengage with people that he cannot stand right away. I give benefits of the doubt because to be honest I am blaming my mom for not allowing me to have more social exposure growing up and I am very naive in terms of understanding people. But in all of the cases I did protest with the unhealthy behavior towards me. At first though my protests were diplomatic which didn’t work and then my protests eventually got more and more aggressive as I desperately try to affix boundary and be respected as an equal human being (which narcs seem to have a hard time grasping). My other definition of personal integrity which I thought HG was talking about which I also have very high of is not compromising my beliefs or principles for anybody whether narc or not. Like in college where our prof bribed us with extra grades if we will attend the people power revolution to oust then President Erap. It was the popular stance among students my age to join it but I refused to because I believed in following the impeachment system in our new constitution instead of doing another revolution. So I lost out on the grades and the popularity and the fun experience of being out there with other students but I kept my principles in tact and it was more important for me. Although my prof didn’t like me when I told him that he shouldn’t bribe students with extra points. He held a grudge against me he even didn’t approve my FB friend request years after that. But at least I was loyal to my principles. Although ignore self integrity means not putting up with bad behavior even from family members then I totally lost major points in that.

          24. K says:

            I think you are a standard empath, however, for accuracy do the Empath consult.

            These comments may be helpful re: the SE.

            MAY 10, 2018 AT 22:50
            What gives it away for you HG that you are dealing with a Super Empath? Since a Super Empath is the only one it seems to go Super Nova, is it the indications of narc traits that clue you in?

            HG Tudor
            MAY 11, 2018 AT 16:20
            Essentially yes and an individual who will “arm-up” in defence, but never in an unprovoked attack. Super Empaths have a rule of engagement that they can only engage, once engaged.


          25. mommypino says:

            Thank you K for the links but I don’t understand how those links do not apply to me. I have never attacked anyone unless they started it. Aren’t all empaths the same? I don’t see how anyone who has a lot of empathy would attack somebody just for the heck of it. I can honestly say that I do not attack anyone unless they attack me. I can be opinionated and I question things, and sometimes I misread situations and it causes friction but I do not attack people whom I know doesn’t deserve it. I don’t understand how that is unique to Super Empaths.

            Also I may have not have fully disengaged with my family members, my situations were unique and complicated. I disagree that continuing to help them despite the abuse shows that I have less self integrity. I did all of those deeds coming from my heart and genuinely wanting to help. My sister was homeless and had nowhere else to go so I offered to house her. She was in a foreign country with no money so I loaned her money. I cared about my stepdaughters because they are from my husband so I easily forgave them when we reconciled. Looking back I don’t regret anything that I have done. I never did anything for anyone that violated my self principles. It is a shame that they didn’t appreciate everything that I did for them but I still do because they were my family and if I say that I’m in I’m completely in, not halfway in. I’m always all in. And now that I’m out I’m also completely out. To be quite honest I am losing my interest in the Empath Detector. The things that happened to me are very complicated and I don’t want to be judged based on how I handled those experiences. It does matter anymore what kind of empath I am or if I am even an empath. I’m just glad that I can honestly say that I don’t regret anything and never once did I lose my self integrity or violated my principles to please or displease anybody.

          26. K says:

            Here is another good comment about the SE.

            HG Tudor
            FEBRUARY 28, 2017 AT 22:31
            Indeed I do, they set off the alarm as they try to climb out of the window.
            It manifests in the appearance of the more narcissistic traits – the attempts to assert boundaries, being more challenging, complaining. It is all fuel but it moves from hurt, confusion to a more focussed angry resolve.


          27. K says:

            This is how I interpret the excerpt below: The SE has a strong character or sense of self and when their boundaries are crossed or their trust is betrayed they are more likely to assert boundaries sooner rather than later. In this instance, personal integrity is a force within the individual which causes them to stand up for themselves. They will not be a doormat.

            “The risk factor however with a Super Empath is that their own personal integrity is greater than the empath’s and very much greater than that of the co-dependent”

          28. mommypino says:

            K, I have thought about it more. I think also the reason why I kept trying hard despite the meanness and the fights was because when we reconciled or I got sucked back in, I really treated it as clean slates so I have set aside the past and worked harder to also make them forget of the things that I did or said when we had fights. It just became this obstacle course for me which I why I believe that I have some codependent tendencies in me. It was like a project for me to do as much as I can do for them so that they will eventually stop hating me and I was aiming for that oasis where we are all family and we all get along. I was more preoccupied or focused with that oasis that I was able to walk in the barren desert for such a long time and getting very little of any from them. I was focused on making my husband happy and my kids having a good relationship with their older siblings. And so I actually did more for them each time I got sucked back in to make up for the fights that I had with them and to get me faster to that oasis that didn’t exist. So that’s why I think I’m a Standard Empath close to the Co-D scale. But I have very high integrity and it’s very important for me. I never succumb to peer pressure if I feel that it will be against my values. But I am a people pleaser. I go all out of my way in order to see that I caused someone’s face to light up. I went out of my way to see my husband happy when I interacted positively with his kids and did something for them.

            By the way K, just out of curiosity, what is your personal opinion or understanding on what makes someone a Super Empath or a Standard Empath. I think the easiest one to understand is the Codependent school. But I am still confused with the Super and Standard schools. As of now, the way that I understand it, the feistiness separates them. So I think for example, Judge Judy would be a SE while Mr Fred Rogers is a Standard. But I find it problematic because Mr. Rogers had really high integrity and so much kindness. It is weird to think that he was not a Super Empath because he was too nice. Do you have famous personalities of Super and Standard Empaths that HG gave before?

          29. WhoCares says:

            Mommypino & K,

            I find your conversation on narcissists’ “paranoia” interesting. Mine (LMRN) had paranoia as well, in addition to what I would call a ‘persecution’ complex. It is very difficult to live with (although in my case it did not present in extreme until near the end of our formal relationship) and I agree with your experience, mommypino, in that the paranoia threw me for a loop and I never suspected that he was a narcissist either but the paranoid thinking is what had me hell bent on googling stuff and, eventually, landed me here at HG’s blog.


            I have a question: is paranoid thinking, as described by mommypino, symptomatic of NPD or comorbid with NPD (and an issue in itself?) I ask this because I think it can be an issue on it’s own (in my opinion and observation) but I wonder if it forms in some narcissist’s pattern of thinking with more intensity because it’s a sure-fire way of getting what the narc needs (fuel/attention/control) as people around them will ALWAYS react in some way – either to logically explain the errors of their thinking or to outright say: ‘Okay, you’re officially looney/crazy/messed up.’

          30. mommypino says:

            “It is rare that someone diagnosed with NPD will not also be diagnosed with another Axis II disorder; in fact, Ronningstam points out that, among the Axis II Cluster B (dramatic) disorders, �Narcissistic Personality Disorder has one of the highest rates of diagnostic overlap.�18 It has also been suggested that NPD is over-diagnosed, that the constellation of symptoms clinicians identify as constituting NPD do not conform to the DSM requirements, and that clinicians frequently do not identify NPD in patients whose primary clinical diagnosis is Narcissistic Personality Disorder.19

            The following chart illustrates the co-occurrence of NPD with other Axis II disorders according to the criteria sets in the DSM-III and DSM-III-R.

            Comorbidity of
            Narcissistic Personality Disorder
            With Other Axis II Disorders20

            Axis II
            of Co-Occurrence
            Histrionic Personality Disorder
            Borderline Personality Disorder
            Paranoid Personality Disorder
            Avoidant Personality Disorder
            Passive-Aggressive Personality
            Antisocial Personality Disorder

          31. alexissmith2016 says:

            I’m not sure it is even about a hierarchy. It’s not about wanting to be better than others.

            The desire most have who want to consider themselves an SE, and having been seduced by a greater is likely to do with their own sense of pride.

            We don’t want to have experienced abuse in our childhood (though I would suspect that most of us have), but we want to feel validated. And because HG is an ultra and his preference is an SE, we therefore believe this is the most desirable.

            But we must not forget that Bill Clinton (a greater) is married to a mid, so not even opted for an empath at all.

            We also (some of us), don’t want to believe we were foolish enough to have fallen for a lower echelon. possibly because we pride ourselves in being intelligent people, which we all are to have found HG’s site. Therefore we want to believe that yes, we’ve been conned, but only conned by the best.

            Once we understand that it is not about their ranking which necessarily fooled us. it is because they have a completely different way of thinking to the rest of us.

          32. NarcAngel says:

            People would do well to remember that the Greater is attracted to the Super in part because, as per HG in the Super Empath article, they present a challenge and their “descent toward numbness and malfunction is much slower”. This often results in them staying longer and engaging in (by their own hand) a more prolonged period of abuse (although the extent of the effects at that point can be debated). Nothing to be proud of there.

          33. K says:

            You are correct, all the intelligent people are here and I dated a ULN (shit happens) but I think the perceived hierarchy is based on ET and it eventually resolves itself once the logic settles in and, for the most part, it is harmless.

          34. alexissmith2016 says:

            Hahah thanks K, I think you may well have completed my unfinished sentence at the end their! Nice one!! Glad we’re on a level (and not in an N way).

            A ULN. I hope it wasn’t Trump!

            Yup. I have felt everything everyone describes here at one stage or another. But if you persevere with combating the LT over ET, you’ll never look back. Their behaviors and words can no longer hurt you at all because it can all be explained away. It truly is a magical place and undeniably possible to achieve.

            I never thought it would be either!

            LT all the way!

            My main aim now is to work out what type of empath I am (I think I’m getting closer to understanding) before getting the HG seal of approval!

            Oh and being able to truly know which school/cadre of N I’m facing, be it work or play.

            A degree in this would be good, then we could get tested and have our answers marked.

            hmmmmm something tells me they may not get marked accurately though…hehe

          35. K says:

            My pleasure alexissmith2016
            Ha ha ha…we complete each other! We are on the same level in an empath way.

            Trump reminds me of my mother (she is an LLN). Hideous.

            Once your ET clears up, the logic takes over and then everything just falls into place. What a relief. The Empath Cadres were easier for me to figure out and I found the N Schools much easier to work out than the empath schools.

            Many of the bloggers here know more about NPD than some of the people who went to university. I think they should come here and get a degree from HGTU.

          36. nunya biz says:

            I so much appreciate K’s ability to bring clarity with her librarian skills.
            MP, I am not HG, but I have thought for awhile you have SE traits. My opinion is not so valid on those things since I don’t fully understand myself, so whatever. I love your feistiness, for whatever it’s worth.

            But the big piece of information I think you are missing is that HG gives the information more in percentages. So you have personality traits that INTERPLAY with each other that make you mostly unique in terms of character traits. And don’t forget no one else has your cultural background, unique beauty and individual intelligence level combined with those things, so it’s really all a combination. I 100% think you are an empath at the most general, you are not “normal” to me (in a good way) : D

            I agree with others, you should do the detector. It’s not to define yourself, it brings light to some of your thoughts that characterize you and helps you understand over quite a long time (not immediately) a little better about why you interact with narcs the way you do.
            I personally attract narcs like crazy (MR’s mainly) and while I have noticeable magnet qualities according to HG I am not “a magnet”. I am highly carrier, but not extreme I think? But if I am in a small group environment with a narc, probably because of my carrier traits and empathy, etc… they will be drawn to me more than others to either degrade or fake befriend and use. Yay me. That has happened to you as you’ve relayed.

            And I relate to your staying in situations, HG says specifically that SE’s can do that, so it’s not a simple thing that you are doing something “wrong” compared to others or being a pushover. You just need to be armed with information to know where your strengths and weaknesses are so you can manage yourself better.

            I can be attracted to lessers, I don’t care if someone’s a greater, I attract tons of midrangers, I would guess I would attract greaters every so often save for rarity and exposure (not many in my area besides, I’m sure), and HG says that about my personality anyway. I don’t want any of them and a greater might kill me if I were the unlucky victim, god help someone in love with that man. I’m already mentally precarious enough.

          37. nunya biz says:

            Oh, and by the way, MP, I am always fascinated with your stories, about your mom and in-laws, etc… In my opinion it is no accident you end up in these situations, they are an interplay where you are not a narc, you were raised by a narc, you dislike the behavior and you react one way or another. It is a two-way street and not simple chance alone, you are who you are.

          38. MommyPino says:

            Wow thank you for all of the comments and inputs. It does give more clarity. I agree with Lou that there needs to be more discussion and information regarding this and that there is a perception and part of where that perception is coming from its rarity. And thank you HG for clarifying that the perception is incorrect. I agree with NarcAngel and alexissmith that another part of that perception for some is that Greaters are attracted to Super Empaths and of course we can have an assumption that the highest in hierarchy of the narcissists are only attracted to the best so the SE must be the best. I agree that abuse is abuse and I wouldn’t want to be entangled with any school or cadre of narcissists as I wouldn’t want to be abused. NunyaBiz I totally agree that K and her librarian skills and empathic desire to help is a narcsite treasure. Thank you and I also always enjoy reading from you. I think that perception of hierarchy also comes from the description itself and the ability to do a Super Nova. It does sound very empowering and there were times in our entanglements that we felt that power in fighting back, the question is was that a Super Nova? Maybe even other schools of empaths are also capable of causing damage and being above the narc but it was not necessarily a Super Nova. In my major entanglements, my fighting backs were all controlled and measured as to just give them a reality check and create boundaries and not to destroy them as they are my family. The only instance that I was ruthless was against a low life pervert neighbor but I don’t know if he was a narc and also after giving him a good scare for several months and learned that he was really affected by what I did I withdrew my false allegation because I lost interest and it was time to move on. So I didn’t really destroy him either, I just wanted to give him a lesson. And also, I was not in a dynamic with him. I didn’t have any history with him so that probably doesn’t qualify. It would be interesting to find out how my traits work against me when I’m dealing with narcs though. I think that it is something that will be very valuable to me. I really appreciate everyone’s clarifications and answers. I wanted to like all of them but my browser is not allowing me.

          39. mommypino says:

            Been thinking about what I said and not all of my fighting backs were controlled and measured. The email fights did get out of hand and also there was a dinner argument where I was reactive. I think that the Empath Detector will be very helpful but I will wait for more clarity and for my ET to subside to make sure that I remember things as accurately as possible and answer the questionnaire as close to what really happened as possible.

            But glad to have the clarification that it isn’t a hierarchy. I was wondering if it was a hierarchy on which is the better empath or person. But thinking more about this and everybody’s feedback while I was weed-whacking and raking today lol, I think the empathic schools may be more about how an empath reacts as a defense mechanism from narcissistic machinations and not really more about the empath’s character or make up as a person in general.

          40. alexissmith2016 says:

            Mommypino, I’m pleased you no longer see it as hierarchical.

            We’re all good people.

            It’s odd, with all this knowledge I rarely try to categorise empaths, although I’m very keen to know what I am.. But with every narc I meet I simply have to work out which school/ cadre they belong to. I guess, knowledge is power and I need to keep myself safe whilst pandering to their ego.

            With empaths, although some are glaringly obvious from the outset, I don’t tend to give it too much thought beyond the fact they’re definitely an empath and therefore kind hearted.

            The only one I do try and look out for is the superempath, but that is only because they have alot of N traits so i find them more difficult to work out. That said, I’ve only worked out one person I know as an SE. And she’s a definite magnet SE. I’ll make sure I keep her safe from HG’s clutches hahah

          41. mommypino says:

            alexissmith2016, that does confuse me about the SE. I know they get accused of being a narcissist because of their high narcissistic traits and that probably gives away that I’m a Standard and not an SE. When people meet me, they seem to think that I’m very sweet and non threatening. And even though my husband thinks that I’m opinionated and demanding, he says so many times that I am so easy. And I think that’s probably why when I fought back it almost looked like a Super Nova because the contrast was so strong. From someone who’s non threatening, sweet and eager to please I become this I don’t give a rat’s ass about what you think kind of person. The progression is similar to what K said that at first reactive hurt then more resolute actions. But that’s the only time my narc traits show up. That’s why my SD said that I’m finally showing my true colors when they saw that Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde contrast. So I think I’m probably just a Standard Empath with a bad temper lol. Although it made it a little harder for their smear to be effective against me because most people that know me think that I’m nice.

          42. nunya biz says:

            On the plus side, if you are a Carrier, HG won’t kick you out of bed for eating crisps.

          43. NarcAngel says:

            Nunya Biz

            Hahaha. Someone has been paying attention.

          44. mommypino says:

            Lol how about for eating pork rinds?

          45. nunya biz says:

            Lol, randomly and intermittently!

          46. mommypino says:

            NB, even if I happened to be a Magnet Super Empath, I know that I’m not H.G.’s type as I am short and brunette and with not residual benefits that would interest him. I’m also happily married with two kids that use up all of my fuel. I’m a dried up fuel source because of my little kids. No narc would want me. But like I said, even if I was single, I don’t want to be entangled with any narcissist because of so many obvious reasons but mainly are my kids. Maybe in my next life I’ll be tall, blonde and wealthy lol.

          47. nunya biz says:

            “I’m also happily married with two kids that use up all of my fuel. I’m a dried up fuel source because of my little kids.”

            That is a beautiful thing, MP!

          48. mommypino says:

            Thank you NunyaBiz! It is.

            One of these days I want to talk to you about a nine year old that I think already is in the trajectory to have NPD. I think that she’s a budding Mid-Ranger.

  6. foolme1time says:

    So basically your ever-presence is our triggers? No wonder I have so many triggers.

    1. K says:

      When did you start posting on narcsite? I can narrow down the search for that comment by using that as a starting point.

      1. foolme1time says:

        K I don’t know what comment you are talking about? I have been following HG since his first post in 2015, however It took me months before I felt comfortable enough to comment. Even now I still have trouble commenting. It always depends on how or if I’m beating myself up on that day! Some days I think I have it all under control and I’m moving forward, other days I bottom out and take two steps backwards.

        1. WhoCares says:


          Wow – that’s a long time to be following the blog…and I’m sorry that is the way you feel about commenting. But I identify with it; it took me a long time as well before I felt comfortable commenting and feel very similar to this:

          “Some day I think I have it all under control and I’m moving forward, other days I bottom out and take two steps backwards.”

          I’m glad you are still commenting. And I’ve often wanted to ask you if the horses in your avatar are yours?

          1. foolme1time says:

            Thank you who cares! Yes I have been with HG and the blog from the beginning. I have seen many come and go. Some who have healed and come back to visit once and awhile. This group that is on here now has become my favorite! The support that everyone offers each other is quite wonderful! Sometimes I just like to follow the discussions. No the horses are wild from Assateague Island in Maryland. That is my favorite place in the world to be no matter what the season. I have always loved and admired horses from a very early age. I think perhaps I have reached a point that I now realize I need professional help. I’m just not sure what type. Thank you for your kind words.

          2. WhoCares says:

            Oh FM1T – I’m so envious that you’ve been there…I was also a horse-crazy little girl and remember absolutely loving the books about the Chincoteague ponies on Assateague island..’Misty of Chincoteague’ etc…yeah, I pretty much exhausted the section on horses at the local library when I was a kid.

            Lucky, lucky you!

            I agree with you regarding the current group here…much support, wisdom and sharing – plus plenty of learning on stimulating topics.

            I hope you find the professional help you’re looking for…and keep commenting (or reading at least – that’s what I do when I cannot comment). To be honest I’ve found more help and healing here than any other professional resource available to me.

          3. foolme1time says:

            WhoCares, Chincoteague Island is on the Virginia side. In July they swim the ponies from Assateague to Chincoteague and round them up for an auction. This plus a birth control shot that they give to mares help keep the herds smaller. If I remember correctly it is the fire department in Chincoteague that handle the round up and auction. My love for horses also started as a child. I honestly don’t know about the professional resources for myself? I also think it will be hard to find any that can help me the way HG and the blog has done. But I believe I may have exhausted HGs resources when it comes to me and my issues, which is quite understandable. Choosing the correct professional is where my problem is. I will shut down, lie and tell them what they want to hear, If I so much as sense something is off with them. If I don’t have that connection or trust it will be a waste of time for all. I probably have said more to you today then I have the whole time I’ve been on the blog! 😂

          4. WhoCares says:


            Yes, I recall the swimming of the horses and auction from the storybooks. You make me want to read them again ♡

            And yes, on the subject of professionals – I hear you. Choosing is difficult – and potentially damaging if not the correct choice…I actually wanted to get off the blog for a bit and seek counseling etc… (I have a counselor but can’t see her until May) however, just the thought of answering the question: “So? What brings you here?” Or “What seems to be the problem?” is extremely off-putting to say the least…

          5. foolme1time says:

            WC I can’t agree with you enough about professionals causing more damage then helping. That is something that is always on my mind. I don’t think I can handle anymore damage at this time. What ever you decide to do, remember we will be right here when and if you decide to come back.

          6. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you FM1T,

            About the blog; it has been a an internal struggle. I love interacting with people here and feel quite close to some.
            Every time I attempt to invest myself in my outer life it is a bit like my experience with the snow…it’s as if I just start to shovel myself out and the snowbanks themselves start falling in to fill the space where I just shoveled and on top of that, fresh snow keeps falling too.

            I can actually handle simple physical tasks, like shoveling snow, quite easily in comparison to exercising my ’emotional muscles.’ In fact, too much of the latter, and I find myself with my feet swooped out from under me (as if hitting a patch of ice) and landing flat on my ass.

            Physical exertion I can recover from fairly easily; emotional exertion utterly depletes and exhausts me. And then it has cognitive repercussions…

            Here on the blog, there is a lovely ‘give and take’ and I think people see it if they interact long enough.

            I feel badly sometimes when I interact here and can’t always follow through on conversations or follow up in a way that honours my own internal expectations – and perhaps outer expectations too. So sometimes that’s why I limit my conversations here…but I always find myself coming back because it is a very unique place to connect with some very unique people.

            Thanks for sharing about the ponies, foolme1time ♡

          7. foolme1time says:

            WhoCares I understand about the snow! The last two months have been awful for me! I think I have it all under control and then wham! I’m down again! Going away from the blog is something I think of doing often. But that is me giving up all hope ( that awful word) I can’t go away from here! To many on here mean so much to me, they have touched my heart. If I can help just one to heal and move forward and not live the way I do then it all will be worth it. Take care dear one! 😘

          8. WhoCares says:


            I hear you; sometimes just the slightest glimmer of hope can keep us going – even if it’s vicariously through another! Keep having hope.
            Take care FM1T and enjoy those ponies when you get to see them!

          9. foolme1time says:

            WS when I see the ponies in a couple of months I will tell them you said hello! 🐴

          10. WhoCares says:


            Still thinking about your comment…horses are marvelous creatures; how often do you get to visit Assateague Island?

          11. foolme1time says:

            Assateague is only about 3 hours from my home. I try to visit at least 3 or 4 times a year. In fact it is the only place that I visit alone. Every season is different and beautiful. To stand on the beach alone without no one else around in late fall or early winter truly gives you a sense of just how small we really are. To sit and look at the ocean, to see and hear the waves crashing down and then gently rolling in to touch you as a mother touches a small child is really quite beautiful. To look up and see a horse or a small herd walking along the beach coming towards you Is truly a sight to see. It takes you back to a time when things were so much more simpler. Horses to me are magnificent animals. All of the seasons offers its own unique beauty. The spring is the time for birth of the new colts. Summer offers the sight of horses trying to raid campsites for food. Or baskets that are left on the beach by beach goers who have gone off to swim. Summer is the hardest time for them because of the heat and mosquitoes. You can often see them in the early morning or early evening running into the ocean for some relief. I think I kind of went overboard on this. As you can tell it is a place that I find peace.

          12. windstorm says:

            I very much appreciated the mental image your words about the ponies painted – especially them pilfering swimmers baskets on the beach. I was one of those weird girls who never cared for horses, but your description of the island was very appealing. Sounds like a very healing place to visit.

          13. foolme1time says:

            Windstorm Thank you. It means so much to me that you could actually get a mental picture of what I was writing about the ponies. You are not weird for not liking horses. Many do not. I could never get my son to ride with me know matter how hard I tried!

          14. windstorm says:

            Thanks Foolmeonetime,
            I did feel weird in school, though, when all the other girls were horse nuts. They’re just too big for me. Anything that much bigger than me that could kill or maim me makes me leery. Lol!

            I did get some very clear mental images and am glad you have access to such a calming and unique area.

          15. foolme1time says:

            WS maybe you were the one that was not weird! I’ve never thought of them as bigger and able to kill me! I’ve always thought of them as gentle Giants with great sensitivity. Also when you have that much power and control between your legs nothing else seems to compare! 🤣😘

          16. windstorm says:

            I had ponies as a child. They did not like being ridden or being saddled and I could feel this. This ruined any joy of riding for me. I have a good friend who is a horse woman and assured me that most horses enjoy being ridden, but I suspect that’s really as opposed to being confined and not ridden.

            I have been kicked and thrown and bitten and felt such obvious negative emotions from various ponies and horses, I just avoid them. I am very glad that you have had positive experiences

          17. foolme1time says:

            Windstorm It is no wonder then that you do not care for them! There was a place behind my Aunties house when I was growing up that always had horses, I would shimmy under the fences any chance I had to be with them. My Mother finally gave up trying to keep me out of there. As I got older the people that lived there moved and the horses were sold. The new family that moved in had a pony which did not have a very nice temperament. I never really cared for it. One fall a young girl that lived up the street went in there. The pony kicked, knocked her to the ground and trampled her. She didn’t make it. So I understand your feelings of avoidance.

          18. WhoCares says:


            I was struck by your words on horses because I do feel a truth in them.

            “I have a good friend who is a horse woman and assured me that most horses enjoyed being ridden, but I suspect that’s really as opposed to being confined and not ridden.”

            I never had a horse or pony when I was young but I did love any contact I could have with them. In fact, one summer I mucked out stalls and groomed horses at a riding stable just so I could be around horses and go on free trail rides. I always felt badly about them being saddled and harnessed, so it seemed only fair that I should attempt to learn to ride bareback; when I was done my “chores” I would sneak off to ride the boarder’s horses in the paddock without any tack (except some wore a halter). I had a favourite one: a small grey/white horse with a blue halter named “Huckleberry” …I could more easily get astride him witbout a saddle …I don’t know if he minded but I would always pick him some of the long, lush green grass that grew outside of the overgrazed paddock that was just out of reach of the horses’ teeth. I thought it was a fair exchange.

            I also understand FM1T’s point of view about how it feels to ride such a large animal and the sense of ‘mastery’ that comes with it – and I don’t that in the sense of dominance – but more cooperation. I also worked briefly for a developmental riding program where physically/mentally challenged kids got to ride ponies; it helped them feel ‘confident’ and capable in ways that even other so-called ‘normal’ children did not have access to. Plus, they got to socialize with animals – and even the rhythm of riding a walking horse was calming to them. Although I felt for the ponies – because they had to be very calm and tolerate kids who acted out etc…once I felt bad because one little boy was acting out physically while riding – the poor pony took it out on the only thing within reach: me, because I was leading her. She lunged out and nearly bit me in my stomach. Because the ponies had to learn tolerance for the sake of the program she could not go back to her stall but instead the director had me ride her for a while around the indoor riding ring. I think she and I both were mortified because we (or at least I) kept catching glimpses in the large mirror of us: me with full length adult legs riding a small pony meant for a child…

            Sadly, this was not meant to be my line of work nor the pony’s.

          19. NarcAngel says:

            Haha. You’re starting to sound like me. Giddy-up!

          20. foolme1time says:

            NA I actually thought the same thing as I was writing it!! Lmao!

          21. WhoCares says:


            “I did feel weird in school, though, when all the other girls were horse nuts. They’re just too big for me. Anything that much bigger than me that could kill or maim me makes me leery.”

            I’m the opposite to you; I love horses & large breed dogs especially because I can easily read their body language. I am less a fan of small breed dogs and cats – although I have come to love cats and understand them much better (and they actually fit my lifestyle lately better than a dog).

            But I dread – absolutely dread – the day that my son asks me if he can have a hamster…or a guinea pig.
            *They* make me leery. Because they are small, have sharp teeth, move fast and I cannot predict their movements or read their body language.
            Seriously – I have tried to make friends, more than once, with guinea pigs and they weren’t having it! I think it’s partly due to their ability to sense my discomfort but I just cannot get past my nervousness when handling them.
            I could, potentially, compromise on a rabbit. …like maybe one of those over-sized, *very chill* rabbits, lol.

          22. windstorm says:

            I think you’re better off with a guinea pig than a rabbit. Guinea pigs are very sweet and gentle. The ones you interacted with were probably very afraid of you. Lots of large animals eat guinea pigs. In fact they were first domesticated in the Andes as a food source.

            I had one in my classroom when I taught middle school foreign language (students could only hold her if they spoke to her in French). She never bit anyone, but they will poop EVERYWHERE!

          23. WhoCares says:


            Thank-you, lol – I actually may need this most practical advice very soon! As the topic of pets keeps surfacing with my son!!! (Btw – that’s an interesting reward system for learning French!)

          24. windstorm says:

            I like to think I was an interesting teacher!

          25. WhoCares says:

            Windstorm – I bet you were.

            And I think you still are…I learn much from reading your posts even if I’m not responding to them.

            Especially on how you deal with emotions…I have been torn on what to do when my son sees me sad (and normally I would be better at hiding it from him – just not lately). So because I don’t want him to decide he needs to fix things when he sees me sad (he is a bit of a ‘fixer’, like me, with interpersonal disputes at school) and because I want to shelter him from the effects of adult conflict – I’ve told him that I was just missing our cat (he died this past summer)…now partly, the pet discussion has come up because one; he wants a pet of his *own* and two, because he believes I would feel better if we had a new pet.

            So I was reading the posts on you and your granddaughter and what you said to her about being sad…in effort to try and be honest with my son but not give him reason to think that *he* needs to do something that will make me feel better…because that is the kind of thing my mother would do.

          26. windstorm says:

            Your comment that you were trying to shelter your son made me think of Pretzel’s saying, “No good deed goes unpunished.”

            I always was totally honest with my children and never tried to hide anything. But that is more just my nature than necessarily the best thing to do. I realized decades ago that I just don’t see enough levels deep enough to lie well. And I’ve seen too many people try to manipulate loved ones “for their own good” and it go badly. But I also realize that most people think total honesty (though not hurtful honesty) is too simplistic, it works pretty well for me. It certainly uncomplicates life!

            I’d be upfront with your son about the good and bad aspects of each type of pet and tell him your feelings about rodents. He seems a caring, thoughtful boy. Learning to accept other people’s limitations is an important part of life. If you can find a pet you both want, it will enrich both your lives. Best of luck!

          27. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you for that Windstorm ♡

            My son and I did have a brief talk about the responsibility of having a pet. And he went very quiet; so I know he was paying attention. And that seemed to quell the pet discussions…for now 🙂

            I will definitely take your suggestion to heart for when the topic comes up again!

          28. WhoCares says:

            By the way Windstorm, thank-you for providing a suggestion…for some reason I didn’t want to ask you outright (although it has been on my mind)…but it kind of worked it’s way into the conversation.
            So thank-you ♡

          29. windstorm says:

            You’re welcome. Always ask anything you want. I may not have an answer, but I do always have an opinion! My Daddy used to say, “Listen to every fool’s advice, then make up your own mind.” I’ve always found that sound!

          30. WhoCares says:



          31. NarcAngel says:

            Rabbits are not a good pet for small children because they are very fragile (especially their backs). I warned one woman at work and she angrily responded that her child was responsible. Got the rabbit and it was animated and then she said it “absorbed their energy” and became quite “chill”. Didn’t try to get away and would stay right by them when released from it’s cage. Turns out the vet told them the rabbit was “chill” because it had a broken back. Likely from being passed around and handled improperly by small children. It had to be put down.

          32. windstorm says:

            That’s very sad, NarcAngel. Personally i think the best pet for young children is a large, easygoing dog. The kind they can’t really hurt and will be tolerant and protective of them.

          33. NarcAngel says:

            I agree. And you can learn a lot about the child and what needs to be addressed by obseving how the child treats that dog.

          34. windstorm says:

            Very true! And you can use the dog to teach good behavior for human relationships too

          35. WhoCares says:

            Omg NA – that’s horrible…
            But wise advice with regard to young children.

          36. foolme1time says:

            WhoCares I’ve had rabbits, hamsters, etc. but my favorite was a chinchilla! I absolutely adored him! My kids named him Chilly. Lol. We had a German Shepherd at the time who also adored him and would sleep next to his cage. If the cat would try to get on top of the cage at night my dog would chase her off! 😂

          37. WhoCares says:


            That’s too funny – especially about your German Shepherd!

            I have ‘pet sat’ a pair of Chinchillas with babies! (The babies were so freakin’ adorable.) Also, I have looked after a hedgehog. So, I’ve ruled out Chinchillas and hedgehogs as future pets!

            I can see your life has been full of love for your furry friends ♡

          38. foolme1time says:

            I am an animal and protector from early childhood! I actually like animals more then I do people! 😊

          39. NarcAngel says:

            I’m with you there. Animals never let me down. Even when they bit they had reason.

          40. HG Tudor says:

            Just like our kind. We always have a reason to bite.

          41. NarcAngel says:

            I anticipated that would be your perspective (biting being necessary sometimes) and understand that. From my perspective though, my behaviour led to the animal having a predictible result. Not usually so in dealing with a narcissist. A good example of differing perspectives?

          42. HG Tudor says:


          43. foolme1time says:

            NA So true! So very true!!

          44. windstorm says:

            Different topic, but my little 3 yr old granddaughter is reminding me of you today. She’s spent so much time unrepentant in the naughty corner this morning – if she knew how to carve her name, I’m sure she would have! 😄

          45. NarcAngel says:

            Time outs just give us time to plot revenge lol. Better to assert that we (the unrepentant) are unable to perform a task. We will busy ourselves proving you wrong and you’ve got a chore done. Win/win.

          46. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha!

            “But I don’t want come out! I want stay in time out!!” She may be as formidable as her SE mother when she’s grown, but she’s gonna lose today.

          47. NarcAngel says:

            Me: Omg I love her!!
            Also me: Thank god I didn’t have children!

            Thanks for the laugh.

          48. WhoCares says:

            Windstorm & NarcAngel!

            You guys are too funny.

          49. foolme1time says:

            WhoCares A new Gravatar just for you!😘🐴

          50. foolme1time says:

            That should of been I am an animal lover and protector! Not I am an animal!! Although my ex would probably disagree with me on that one! 😉

          51. windstorm says:

            I’ve raised chinchillas, too. They are very unique animals and do make good pets. And they are very long-lived too.

            I kept chinchillas in my science room when I taught science, as an example of environmental adaptations. A fellow faculty member’s little girl got into my cage after hours and scared one really bad. When they are frightened and something grabs them, their hair falls out so they can escape. But it never grows back in as thick or long as it was before, so I had a weird looking, half naked chinchilla from then on.

          52. HG Tudor says:

            It’s like a bloody zoo in here.

          53. WhoCares says:


          54. NarcAngel says:

            Re: Zoo

            Only natural with a peacock running the show.

          55. HG Tudor says:

            Pah! Get back to the chimps’ tea party you!

          56. foolme1time says:

            Oh HG! 🦚, NA does not have chimps,( I know you were not referring to us?!😡) silly boy! She has a parrot 🦜. He doesn’t drink tea either, he prefers pellegrino with a splash of lime! 🤣🤣🤣.

          57. foolme1time says:

            NA I’m still laughing! Ha ha and I can’t stop! Ha ha ha! I don’t know why but I can just picture HG in a peacock costume strutting around! Ha ha ha ha ! I can’t take it!! I haven’t laughed like this in forever!! My sides hurt! Thank you NA!

          58. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha!!

          59. foolme1time says:

            WS Ha Ha That made me laugh!! I can just picture that poor hairless chinchilla! 🤣

          60. foolme1time says:

            WS They don’t smell either!! 😊

          61. foolme1time says:

            WS Your class room would of been my favorite place to be! Who needs recess or lunch when you have a room full of chinchillas! 😊

          62. WhoCares says:


            Thank-you for the description…you certainly did not go overboard. It sounds perfectly magical. I’m happy for you that you that such a special place to recharge and feel at peace..♡

          63. foolme1time says:

            Thank you sweetie! 😘

          64. Twilight says:


            You did not go over board on your description. I took my granddaughter there and she saw a foal that was less then 24 hrs old. She is just as crazy about them as I am.
            I am getting ready to make a trip there again next month, this time alone.

          65. foolme1time says:

            Aww Twilight!!! It is amazing isn’t it?! Have a wonderful time!! My alone time there is my most special time! 🐴

          66. Twilight says:

            Thank you FM1T

            It seems I need some time away from everything, to be alone with nature. I didn’t think what I had experienced recently had effected me manner it has. More so I didn’t want to acknowledge it did in fact affect me.

            I found solace when I was on the beach the last time I was there. Nothing more then the wind, sky and ocean.

          67. foolme1time says:

            It’s crazy how we ignore things and pretend they don’t effect us. We actually put on the mask! But at the end of the day when it’s just us and that damn mirror, we realize just how much it did effect us! I have some things to take care of here and then I will be heading that way! It’s funny how going back to nature and the beauty of it helps us heal. It helps me put things in perspective, if only for a little while. Have a wonderful journey. I hope you find some peace. Perhaps even a new colt or two?! 😘🐴

          68. WhoCares says:

            “I took my granddaughter there and she saw a foal that was less than 24 hrs old.”

            Twilight – that’s lovely that both you and your granddaughter got to witness that together.

          69. NarcAngel says:

            It sounds wonderful and I’m glad you have that place to feed your soul. We should all have such a place. Perhaps we do but we overlook it.

          70. windstorm says:

            I think you’re on to something there. We may not have access to such a unique place as that island, but I do believe we all have access to special places of natural beauty and calm that can feed and replenish our souls. Even in heavily urban areas, there are pockets of nature that pull me to them. We just have to open ourselves to the world around us and recognize them. If nothing else we can always look up to the wind and sky.

          71. NarcAngel says:

            Exactly. There is opportunity everywhere to appreciate what grounds us and makes us feel peace, but we pass it over for things that feed our ego and empty us instead. I see people sitting in a park but surfing facebook, pushing a stroller and telling the toddler to keep up while talking on their phone, experiencing an entire concert through the phone lens by recording it to show others later instead of enjoying the performance, being exhausted from being on vacation because they tried to cram in all that people deem worthy to post on Instagram instead of choosing to immerse in the couple of things they enjoy most. Those are examples of instances where people could use the time to connect and regenerate but choose ego instead. We are always too busy to enjoy what is right in front of us because we are busy pursuing the next thing that is sure to impress others, ensure our acceptance, and make us feel whole. Nsrcissists are not the only ones with a void or ego.

          72. WhoCares says:

            NA – So true.

          73. foolme1time says:

            NA that is so true. Most of the time we don’t appreciate what is right in front of us! Nature seems to be the only thing that can hold my attention and keep my mind from going elsewhere.

          74. foolme1time says:

            WhoCares Its taken me all of this time on the blog to find out HGs premier league team!! 😂

          75. WhoCares says:



            Hmmm, I wonder – in 3 or 4 years time – what else we will learn about HG?

          76. foolme1time says:

            Sometimes he is such a nugget! Lmao! 🙃🤪

          77. K says:

            This comment may answer your question re: paranoid thinking, symptomatic of NPD or comorbid with NPD (and an issue in itself?)

            HG Tudor
            MARCH 24, 2019 AT 17:26
            Narcissists have no sense of remorse. We do not feel guilty (Mid Rangers of course think they do as part of their façade management).
            All narcissists are paranoid and the extent of this is linked to school and fuel levels.
            Why empaths? See Sitting Target.

          78. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you K!
            I recall HG saying that narcs are always paranoid, to an extent, but don’t recall it being touched on in depth anywhere.

          79. K says:

            My pleasure WhoCares!
            Paranoia is briefly mentioned in Weeping With the Frenemy and The Greater Narcissist. If you Google: narcsite paranoia, you can pull up the threads/articles where it is discussed and that should help you understand it better.

        2. K says:

          I have some time this weekend to search for this comment if you still want me to and I wasn’t sure when you logged on.

          AUGUST 3, 2018 AT 00:34
          Super Xena, and the rest, wasn’t it HG himself who said he has learned that he does not have to be so hateful and destructive ( I don’t remember the exact words he used, where’s k when you need her? Lol) when dealing with his victims since meeting with the Drs and commenting with us on the blog? Isn’t that change?


        3. K says:

          Sometimes, it felt like I took twenty steps back for every two forward. Keep reading and reading and don’t stop. Eventually, you will just go keep going forward.

          If you still want me to look up the comment and, if you have a vague recollection of your first post, let me know.

          1. foolme1time says:

            K Thank you. It seems that I sabotage myself with my steps. I believe I take more backwards then forwards. Thank you again K for all you do on here.😘

          2. K says:

            You are welcome foolme1time!

    2. Joanne says:

      Me too. My narc is not a lesser but so much of my ever presence is tied up in MY OWN personal items and ideas that now have associations with him. As HG mentioned, “baking a pie” is now a trigger due to ever presence. I didn’t bake a pie but something along those lines… So aggravating.

      1. G.B. says:

        As an empath, I have strong sentimental attachments. Even purging items of everpresense does not release the memory, sentiment and hope recorded in my heart and mind. But I have found that “exorcising the ghost” can help. In other words, revisiting places or activities you attach memories to may trigger pain at first, but like facing a fear, it removes its power. It places the former memory squarely in the past. It reinforces you survived the pain/loss. This works especially well if a new experience is created instead that is authentically positive or healing.

        We gave true love. Embrace that fact. Be joyful in knowing you had that to give to him. Unfortunately, it was a gift the narc could not treasure nor reciprocate. Not because he chose to, but because he could not and there could be no other outcome. This last part I learned from HG and it can set you free.

        Now (post grief and empowered by what I have learned here) when I see or feel an everpresense trigger (they still surface), I am thankful for the experience. Thankful I gave truly. Thankful for all I learned from my narc. Deeply thankful for HG’s truth-giving and wisdom. Thankful for how it changed me. Thankful it did not continue since the outcome would eventually, enevitably be the same. I am grateful. I am F.R.E.E. And from the heart, I wish my narc the best in life.

        So when you have one of these everpresense moments, know you are getting a big hug from us and be thankful you had so much to give. You have gained far more than any loss. Wishing you much healing.

      2. G.B. says:

        P.S. I feel I should add that I did not suffer abuse as some have, so that makes it easier to wish someone well. A long ago different narc was far worse and I neither wish him well nor wish him harm because I do not care about him. The opposite of love is apathy. Sometimes that is healing to achieve as well. I forgive all narcs because they came by their personality disorder honestly and not by choice, but I do not condone or dismiss destructive behavior.

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