Brilliance, Baloney or Bullshit?


FR David once declared, “Words don’t come easy to me.”

He must not have belonged to Narc Club because we love words and using them. Why is that? They are so easy to use and so powerful. We use words to charm, to seduce, to astound, to amuse, to arouse, to hurt, to wound, to put down, to terrify, to lash out, to apologise, to correct, to mollify, to appease and to hoover.

We actually only use them for one thing.

To control.

Words are far more attractive than action. This is because words form on our lips in an instant, they tap into your empathic and narcissistic traits so readily to ensure we wrap our controlling tendrils about you. Words enable control. Words garner fuel. Words cost nothing. Words vanish into the ether. Words can be denied. Words can be twisted. Words can be fabricated. Words can be lost. Words can be found.

Words come very easy to us.

What comes from our mouths is a product of our narcissism, refined of course by our school. Face a Lesser Narcissist and you can expect direct comments, wild boasts, raged-filled tirades and mammoth exaggerations. Those words issued by the Lesser will not be winning any Booker Prizes, but they remain effective. They are effective because they cost the lazy lesser nothing to use and they enable him to achieve control.

Should the words come pouring from a Mid Range Narcissist, these range from Long Involved Explanations, grandiose prose feigning some Romantic poet, mealy-mouthed apologies, angst-ridden pity plays, sobbing symphonies seeking sympathy and pompous posturing by the fireplace of arrogance. Mid Rangers can be accomplished wordsmiths, doling out some delicious word salads, getting you on the merry go round of Circular Conversations and making frequent use of plausible deniability, with the “I did not quite say that,” or “you have not remembered what I said correct” or “I would explain again but it is quite clear you do not understand what I mean.”

When the Greater lets the serpent´s tongue emerge, instinct largely slips away and if you are the rare victim of the Greater you will find yourself on the receiving end of the calculated, probing, forensic comments where each word has been carefully considered to ensure maximum impact. Nothing is wasted, every word counts and the savage sentences see your throat ripped out as we still stand smiling at you and you slowly start to realise that you died five seconds ago but your brain is just catching up.

Of course all three schools use words in the context of the Narcissist´s Conditional Asterisk and all three schools will use words purely to control because not only are they so much less effort to use, they also provide a fantastic return for the minimum expenditure of effort and that ratio of effort as against return is central to our behaviours.

Sometimes we exhibit brilliance in our words. Often our kind demonstrate baloney although you may take some time to ascertain that this is what has just been spouted. Similarly often there is just pure bullshit spouted by the narcissist. Again, you may be slow to have realised this, your emotional thinking clouding your application of logic. Occasionally you know that this stinking pile of excrement is being dumped on you but you fail to get out of the way, you emotional thinking addled-mind struggling under the steaming load that has been deposited your way. Invariably, it is only afterwards, with the cleansing effect of Logical Thinking that you will clear away the dung and see the comment for what it was, leaving you incredulous, shaking your head and your gast flabbered.

Our kind come out with choice examples of utter bollocks, but of course, from the uttering narcissist it is deemed to be entirely apt for the purposes of asserting control and the clouding effect of emotional thinking ensures that the comment gets the narcissist over the finishing line of control.

On this occasion we are focusing on the bullshit and the floor is open to you to provide us with the golden turds that your narcissist said, wrote or carved into a tree near your house. Let’s have those one or two lines which contained a choice example and feel free to expand on how you felt and how you reacted to it.

The floor is yours, just watch where you tread……

557 thoughts on “Brilliance, Baloney or Bullshit?

  1. Kim e says:

    Donation made. Happy Birthday HG!!!
    Your Humble Empath

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you and thank you.

      1. Whitney says:

        Happy Birthday Magnificent HG, hope you have a wonderful day!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you.

          1. Chihuahuamum says:

            Happy belated birthday HG!🤗

  2. Joanne says:

    You’re amazing

    You’re gorgeous

    I know I can’t have you all of the time, but I’ll take whatever I can get

    You’re nothing like my ex. It should have been us who got married

    You feel amazing pressed up against me. As if our bodies were designed to fit together (note overuse of the word “amazing)

    You’re perfect (followed by list of reasons why)

    I’m becoming obsessed with you

    I have fallen for you

    And my all time favorite:
    You’re the only one I talk to

    All of these were delivered in paragraph form, blathering on and on, super wordy and verbose and I lapped it up like ice cream. It didn’t seem fake. He was very skilled at words and their delivery during seduction. Even beyond compliments, his general stories and expressions were just captivating. Once I was under his control and he began his switch, the sweet words came, but in robotic form and emotionless.

    1. Shelf Fuel says:

      “You feel amazing pressed up against me. As if our bodies were designed to fit together (note overuse of the word “amazing)”

      Piano Boy used “amazing” a lot. And he said “It feels like our souls are touching” while we were being intimate.

      1. Joanne says:

        The repetitious use of that word really made me uncomfortable. Another red flag that showed nothing he said was ever sincere.

        1. MommyPino says:

          You’re right Joanne, I noticed that with my half sister as well who was a MR. Her adjectives tend to always be on the extremes: amazing, spectacular, brilliant, gorgeous, ecstatic etc. I may have picked up the habit. 😬. But thankfully I don’t think that I do it in the same degree as her because my husband used to make fun of her about it and he hasn’t made fun of me about using the word amazing yet. She was the type of person that if you are having a picnic with her and she brought the salad that she bought, she would say that it is the best salad that she has ever tried. There is always something best that she is having whenever I was around her. She was definitely not mediocre like me lol.

      2. Renarde says:

        “It feels like our souls are touching”

        Oh yuch. And you didn’t vomit over his cock? Kudos!

  3. Sonnychan says:

    ” All or nothing: Either we are truly together or we should stop this right now.” We were never officially a couple.

    Then the last time I was at his place: “No, I didn’t mean it like this. I meant, that I wanted us to be completely honest to each other for I just cannot stand any bullshit anymore.” Oh the irony…

    But my all time favorite is from the weekend before Easter. I had told him, that I really dislike controling behavior from the start. You can imagine how that went. So I was hunting him through my flat, close to going supernova over this topic, and than this glorious statement came out of his mouth:
    ” I am not trying to train you. If I would be training you, that would mean, that I wanted to be in a serious relationship with you.”

    I should have run then, but unfortunately I was too deep in ET at that time. And then I got my first corrective absent silent treatment, which unfortunatly really got at me. Damn truthseeking!

  4. empath007 says:

    I’ve got to tell you… reading all these comments… these narcs seduction game are WEAK. Mine used all the same bullshit concepts as well (soulmate, strong connection, his obsession with my body etc) but at least he did it with some style haha. He was a wonderful musician and would serenade me (not songs he wrote, or even love songs… nothing cheesy. just music to pass time in the evenings)

    Either way I consider mine a little frightening though as I consider him a greater (self assessed)

    And like I say the memories of seduction are fading fast… I’m so thankful for that.

    1. Renarde says:


      They are not all weak…

      1. empath007 says:


  5. Intrepid Traveller says:

    “I really don’t want to be that parasite, sucking your blood and then falling asleep on your pillow like the dog’s tic”

    “You are my primary relationship” (yes , he actually said that)

    “I absolutely, genuinely, honestly, was single from New Year on.“ to his DLS/candidate IPPS by email whilst he was still very much in a relationship with me.

    “The only explanation I can come to is that we have, mainly through my own issues, fears, priorities and general flakiness, failed to reach a proper commitment, which I think has led to contention and tensions which, in turn, have fuelled our disagreements. The ties that should by now be binding us have become frayed. We have been under these pressures for too long now and I have become very frustrated. Hence, I have not been giving you the commitment you need and have found myself at the end of your disappointment and disaffection to the point at which it was easier to live up to your disappointment “ . This is his “”” apology “””” and reasoning once found out in the affair!!

  6. Em says:

    Everyone was talking about you at work but I stood up for you.

  7. Em says:

    I made a study so the IPPS can spend more time here (to a friend of mine during my devaluation)

  8. Em says:

    I’m telling my neighbour how amazing you are – confessing all

  9. Em says:

    Nothing is ever enough

  10. Em says:

    That was my neighbour at the door not my gf

  11. Em says:

    She’s crazy

  12. In the middle of a conversation where he no longer wants to talk about the topic:

    “I love your smile” Pause. Stares intently at my mouth. “especially your bottom lip”

    Me: ” Um…is it warm in here…? …what were we talking about…?”

  13. Em says:

    I’m away for new year with my friend and his partner just the three of us. Do not contact me.

  14. Em says:

    I believe in God

  15. Em says:

    I don’t like to mix with the prols

  16. Em says:

    I chose this decor myself

  17. Em says:

    I’ll tell you if I meet someone new

    1. Cyn says:


  18. EmP says:

    Ex narc: ”I live by the golden rule – don’t do unto others what you don’t want done unto you”.

    1. Renarde says:


      It’s a corruption of ‘As above, so below’. Its just that Jesus got their first.

  19. blackunicorn123 says:

    “…carved into a tree”. You make me laugh!

  20. njfilly says:

    When my narcissist hoovered me back his explanation for the disengagement was “I was just saving myself”.

    How true and telling that was. I would respond “This is not all about you and that’s not a healthy way to have a relationship. What were you saving yourself from? A mature conversation?” I often thought if we were on a sinking ship he would trample over me to get to the life boats to ‘save himself’. I’m thankful I wasn’t completely invested in our short-term relationship anyway. But it is interesting to learn now about what was really going on.

    I do feel a little slighted that I never got beautiful words out of him. I am a better writer and communicator than he was. So when I was treated to his verbal or written word salads, that was always the excuse I made for him and used to myself as the explanation for his not making any sense.

    I’m doing some mental purging today.

  21. FoolMe1Time says:

    Yes! Don’t you want to please me? Won’t you do it for me? You are the only one that has ever made me feel this way. Oh and this one, Looking at your face and seeing that smile and those beautiful eyes, gives me such pleasure. Bullshit asshole! It gives you fuel.

  22. aapzonderstaart says:

    Words, and i’ve seen midrange narcissist use facial expressions as well as altering the tone of their voice. I had a female magerer once and she would have an innocent voice (1 or 2 tones higher then her real voice) when others were around and a witchy voice when we were alone. I started to hum the wizard of oz tune as soon as she was around.

    1. Libby says:

      I had an (likely NPD) employee that would alter her tone of voice. She would get all high pitched and sing-song syrupy sweet. It made my blood run cold because I knew the shit was about to hit the fan.

    2. Renarde says:


      True wisdom. You’re on the right path x

  23. Cyn says:

    “I can’t believe you are real. You are actually everything you stated on your profile and the same as your picture! Everyone else has been a fraud” (especially me)

    “Sometimes it occurs to me that I may not know who you really are. You could have a totally different side, another life going on I don’t even know about” (after 2 years with me)

    1. Intrepid Traveller says:

      It’s unbelievable the quantity and quality of projection of themselves on to us they display isn’t it?

      1. K says:

        Intrepid Traveller
        I agree; it’s an excellent example of projection.

        1. Shelf Fuel says:

          Piano Boy projects ALL THE TIME.

          1. WAF Tudorita says:

            * projected

            past tense . Right?

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            WAF, I thought the exact same, it’s about time this narration is in the past.

          3. Shelf Fuel says:

            I guess so. It was from a text exchange on Friday where he asked me for a phone call and then made me question myself when I agreed to the phone call. When I asked him why he was acting like that when he invited me to talk he said he was anxious and was “projecting his insecurities” onto me.

          4. Renarde says:

            WAFT. No. Alas.

  24. Em says:

    I don’t know who stole the Botox from work

  25. Leigh says:

    I keep thinking of more. During the golden period and periods of respite, it would be:

    I want you
    I want more
    I miss you
    I just want to look at you
    I wish I could take you away
    You deserve to be on a pedestal
    I wish you knew me then.

    Then after devaluation, I would get:

    Please don’t give up on me yet
    I don’t know why I do the things I do, I’m emotionally stunted
    I’m sorry, I will try harder
    I promise to do better
    And my favorite…
    I haven’t had someone this into me in a very long time. I didn’t know how to handle it. (This one melted me heart.)


    1. cogra002 says:

      That reminded me of another “Maybe I’ll grow up one if these days.
      I’m not holding my breathe.

  26. Em says:

    I am a millionaire – on paper

  27. Em says:

    I knew I would have you when I first saw you

  28. MB says:

    “It will happen, you just have to keep the faith”. (Whenever I brought up meeting in person.) Future faking fucker!

    “Don’t you want to please me?” Was another favorite control line.

    1. cogra002 says:

      The Narc was funny about being in person too. The reason is, of course, that its hard to keep the rest of the harem in line if he’s with u

  29. Em says:

    My colleague slept with the office junior not me

  30. Em says:

    I don’t know why my next door neighbours split up and moved so quickly.

  31. Em says:

    I don’t like theatre
    I like making bread
    I don’t know why my colleagues don’t want to work with me
    I’ve suggested we do team building. They still don’t want to work with me.
    Did you put the red knickers through my letter box and a candle on my car?
    If so thank you for the gesture!!
    I don’t know why she left me. I don’t know where she is.
    I don’t think I still have q gf.
    My daughter has started wearing your fragrance. (No reaction from me)
    My mother has started wearing your fragrance.
    Thank you for changing your fragrance.
    My ex wanted my PA to leave but she’s great.
    My PA is useless doesn’t file things just piles things up.
    thank god she left to save me sacking her.
    My daughter (for daughter read IPPS) wants me to buy a Porsche
    I nearly bought Lang langs piano
    I am so sorry i didn’t treat you with the respect you deserve
    My son is a spy working for the government.
    My daughter doesn’t have time to see me
    My mother has never liked any of my gfs
    I can levitate in my dreams
    As a child I had an imaginary giant as a friend I had to March round the bedroom with my station masters cap before bed

    1. EmP says:

      My narc mother could ‘levitate in her dreams’ too..

  32. empath007 says:

    You know what’s awesome?! I’m starting to forget 😃 oh all those hours upon hours he spent constructing beautifully crafted, lovingly poetic manipulations my way are soon to go to waste…. all those times he used his eyes and body langue to make me feel weak in the knees, are fading.

    I am a woman of words. So it’s the best and most affective way to seduce me and the most affective way to make me sexually awakened. So he used the right tactic in that regard. And he was also good at it. Like you HG he could make things sound so romantic and special. He loved to hold my hand, embrace, he had seduction worked out well.

    The only place he’d lack was when talking about sex vs actually completing the task (all talk no action)

  33. WAF Tudorita says:

    My all time fave was my MMR elite who I was DLS to.. saying , if we were together as a real couple, he’d never cheat , I said why not? “Because I’m faithful!”

    1. Renarde says:


      1. Jett says:

        Hey Retarde Nice pic.

        1. Renarde says:


          Did I just read that right?

          1. Cyn says:


          2. Cyn says:

            I think that was a typo, not an insult.

          3. Renarde says:

            It could be but I think it was meant as a insult.

          4. K says:

            I will validate you. It was an insult.

          5. Renarde says:


            Thank you.

            Wonder what the comeback will be?

          6. K says:

            My pleasure Renarde
            Hopefully there won’t be one.

          7. Renarde says:

            ‘Jett’ it would seem, was made in North Korea!

          8. Renarde says:

            HG A request?

            If Jett does come back and attempt to insult me would you mind letting it through? (Unless it convenes one of your five laws?).

            Thank you

          9. Cyn says:

            Can we observe a narc attack a rude person? I didn’t see the initial post that resulted in Jett’s remark. I would like to see the moderators response. I am a total brat some times. I really can be quite mean. Not sure where it comes from but it’s usually well placed and I like it.

          10. Renarde says:

            I’m not a narc, Cyn.

          11. Cyn says:

            I know, I like you. There is hope then! That probably meant no sense. I was hoping we all got to defend you, and HG was going to defend you and we got to observe that. I do like you so I guess I am drawn to people that are not narcs too. Yaaaaay!

          12. K says:

            Renarde is a sweetheart and I really like her.

          13. Cyn says:

            Where is she?

          14. Renarde says:

            Ah apologies Cyn. I’m always gonna hair trigger about that word. But tgsts my shit. I’m sorry.

            Now, I think you might he outlining a good 85% of NSs secret fantasy! I’m going be frank; it’s hot.

            Why did Jett not come back. Why??

          15. Cyn says:

            BTW, where did Jett come from anyway?

          16. Renarde says:

            I dont fully know…

          17. Cyn says:


          18. Renarde says:


            It could LITERALLY be anyone. The usage of retarde is telling but not indicative. As is the reference to my avatar.

            I’m used to it.

          19. Cyn says:

            Oh, did you think I was calling you a narc? I wasn’t at all lol

          20. Renarde says:

            I know. I do have my moments at times!

          21. Cyn says:

            Me too

          22. Cyn says:

            Well I adore you and your smart assedness
            I know that’s not a word and I am not blowing smoke up your ass. It’s ok to pull people’s covers here but not ok to name call.

          23. Renarde says:

            Aww Cyn, thank you!

            No, it’s not ok to name call. Especially that word too. I’m not offended that hes called me tgst, not at all (just baffled tbh!)

          24. K says:

            You may find this article enlightening.


          25. Cyn says:

            Thank you! Nailed it!

          26. K says:

            My pleasure Cyn!
            I just re-read it to keep the LT up and running.

          27. K says:

            Things that make you go hmmmm…..

          28. Renarde says:

            Indeed K!

            Not the first time someone has called me that. That was on Fet.

          29. Cyn says:

            Ha! I used to be on there too. Where I picked up narc 2. The other half of my sandwich. I picked him no less, after I gave him a job interview and ignored several red flags, then attempted to overcome them lol!

          30. Renarde says:


            It’s a terrible place. I did a naughty a few months ago and hot put on the naughty step. I haven’t bothered yo reactivate, not polluting my energy anymore. X

          31. Cyn says:

            I have a few real life friends on there that are platonic but like minded. I deactivated my account after some idiots, especially a couple that were immediately entitled and off putting. I have new boundaries and triggered by everything. Not ready anyway. It’s gotten strange there, trashier and just rare to talk to anyone with much understanding of intricacies and true dynamics of what appeals to me; which is not an act or a porn mentality. In general a bravado entitled fake dom thing is the biggest turn off in the world to me, as are doc pics and 25 year olds. Anyway it’s gotten to be ridiculous there and not sure how to proceed with my multiplicities going forward as it seems I am attracted to only the wrong people no matter how different they seem to be. I choose them if they are different than me-narcs. I choose them if they are like me-narcs. I choose them if they are smarter-narcs. Don’t need to be fixed-narcs. Humble?-lying-narcs. Lol. Calm- controlled cold fury stonewalling narcs lol

          32. Cyn says:

            What is the naughty step?

          33. Renarde says:

            It means I trolled my ex and I got put on a time out.

          34. Cyn says:

            Isn’t that what Fet is for? Lol.

          35. Renarde says:

            Probably the only real use!

          36. Cyn says:

            Time outs suck. Well not from FL. Toxic

          37. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I wouldn’t give it a thought, Renarde. I’m sure it was Shett’s autocorrect.

          38. Renarde says:


            I’d usually give the benefit of the doubt except my last comment before Jetts’ was ‘Genious’ in response to another poster.

          39. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I was being sarcastic, that’s why I call it Shett.

          40. Cyn says:


          41. Renarde says:

            Sorry SP. Having a brain fart.

          42. K says:

            Don’t you worry; I have your back.

          43. Renarde says:


            I know you do. Thank you x

          44. K says:

            You are welcome Renarde xoxo.

  34. Leigh says:

    Another one of my favorite’s was when he told me that this was supposed to be casual. Really Mofo? Stop telling me you miss me, stop throwing the L word around. He only wanted it casual when he didn’t want me around!

    Another great one was he would tell me he was scared. Scared of what? I never pushed because I was always scared he would end it.

    All bullshit!!!

  35. lisaelli13 says:

    Ohhh this is a fun one…lets see.
    “the only person who got abused was me”
    “if you want to stop talking to me because you think what I say is insulting, but it’s not” after being called a whore I assume that’s a compliment.
    “you screw your friends boyfriends” during my devaluation and a week later his friends girlfriend was living there
    “I don’t want to be disrespectful, or have words come out of my mouth wrong”
    “when I’m in your life you’re depressed”
    My favorite so far….”you’re the one I would have kept” KEPT??? I keep myself and that’s his biggest problem. He likes women with no job, no car and no home with a drug problem.

  36. B says:

    Below, copied and pasted from an email I received today. I re-engaged after 3 months NC because I need a job and he is in a position to help me; he has a huge professional network. I apologized via email for saying hurtful words when we had a hideous fight over his failure to help me over a year of unemployment.

    “I was hurt by your comments, but I also understand that you are feeling the pressure of finding your next opportunity in your professional career and are frightened and anxious. You are a great friend and should not feel compelled to apologize. I still care for you a great deal and wish that I could snap my fingers and find you the job that you are seeking. I think of you often and will help any way possible.

    Regarding the job, we may have to move people around internally because of additional cutbacks that are under way. However, I will advocate for you should we have the opportunity to go outside.”

    First I cried when I read these words.
    Now I am thinking it’s a hoover. HG, what say you?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes it is a hoover.

      1. B says:

        Thank you HG.
        Can you explain why he always, always dismisses apologies this way? I assume “control” is your response but I truly don’t understand how that works.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          To expand on this requires more information both from you and from me and I recommend that you organise an email consultation and I will be able to address this for you.

  37. Cyn says:

    “What do you mean bait and switch? I do nothing of the sort!”

    “ I think we were lovers centuries ago” omg puke

    “ You are a calculating taker”

    “We all make mistakes. But I am willing to try again.” ( mail hoover, 6 weeks after I left the second time)

    “There is nothing I don’t love about you, nobody understands you like I do, how you think and feel. “(Nobody uses it against you as well as I have either lol!)

    “I should have stayed quiet the last time and left you alone.” (but here I am again after 6 damn months. in fact, I even drive 45 minutes to drop this on your porch since there was no other way Lol)

    1. njfilly says:

      I also told my narcissist that he used bait and switch.

      He kept me hooked with the sex then it stopped overnight to nothing. I still recall the weekend he came over and rather than having sex as we usually did, he wanted to watch TV. Meanwhile, I have not watched TV in about 20 years! Although during the golden period he did replace my 20 year old TV’s with new sleek large flatscreens and a great sound system, so in the end I got something out of it!

  38. strongerwendyme says:

    “I want you.”

    1. Leigh says:

      Ugh! That’s one of the worst ones!

    2. ANK says:

      These words are very familiar, a staple in Narchole dictionary Of phrases.

      Another idea for you HG – ‘Narc Dictionary -common phrases and what they really mean’. 😀

      1. HG Tudor says:

        See the book Decipher.

        1. ANK says:

          Ah that’s one that I haven’t read yet! Must do…..

    3. Bibi says:

      Oh, Lord. That is what the Lesser Somatic told me upon marveling over my FB pics. ‘I want you!’ He was so basic compared to the gay Mid Ranger Elitist. He spoke in text speak.

      LOL I’m bored.
      So horny!
      You make me so hard.
      I want to fuck you so bad.
      Hi beautiful.

      Fucking hilarious upon retrospect. Lessers are no wordsmiths! (I have to admit he looked great in his profile pic. But dumb as a post. I even sent it to my best friend who is a gay man. He responded: 8/10. But looks dumb!)

      I am trying to imagine HG saying that to a woman. ‘So horny!’

      Get a moist towel? Just kidding, luv ya HG. You 1970s brat.

      1. HG Tudor says:


        1. Bibi says:

          Born in!

    4. empath007 says:

      This one I like in the bedroom… simple… and to the point.

  39. Sweetest Perfection says:

    I have many but these below are the winners:
    “We both are nocturnal wolves in a path to ecstasy” (wtf?). 💩

    “I’ll fuck you all night, and I’ll delay my orgasm with champagne” (well, we should have had champagne because he surely didn’t delay much!). 💩

    “I flirt with other people on social media but not like I do with you. What I feel is real, and it’s very strong. I don’t know how else to show you I only want you” (and you, and you, and you…). 💩

    PS: Mine were not golden

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Oh to be a diurnal wolf on the road to misery!

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:


      2. Renarde says:

        “Oh to be a diurnal wolf on the road to misery!”

        Prolly not my place to say this my dearest HG, but your prejudice is, urm, showing a tad?

        MR’s have every right to exist. They do. I’m sorry but surely its rude to mock them?

        I am only saying this as a concerned friend. [sadface]

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          He is an UL Renarde, not a MRN. And you would want to mock him too if you knew more about him. He is actually funny in his ridiculousness, truth be told.

          1. Renarde says:

            SP….sometimes….I dunno. I think HG is wrong. WRONG!

            There are massive issues.

            Lessers are idiots but brave

            Middles are intelligent but I think cowardly

            Greaters are Aware.

            It’s no so much as a sliding scale but just binary. On or off.

            Which is it?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No I am not. Your division of the schools is not entirely accurate but you are no doubt applying a broad brush approach.

          3. Renarde says:

            Dear HG. You’re not wrong. I know I am. I know I’m not quite right.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Renarde, my Lesser is arrogant, haughty, sometimes so Somatic and vain that it verges on the ridiculous and embarrassing, but he is not stupid. HG knows what he does for a living and why I had doubts finding out his school, because it can be confusing. He’s not a Greater (thank goodness) and he’s not into pity plays like a MRN, he is just bold. That’s why he is a lesser, not because he’s stupid. I’m not defending him but I believe you need to understand that even a Lesser can be president of a country for example. So there’s that.

          5. HG Tudor says:


          6. Lorelei says:

            Sweetest—this division of greater/mid/lesser does denote certain characteristics that can be confusing as you correct here re, intelligence. I know we tend to refer to lessers as stupid but of course not always. I have a dear friend who was almost offended HG classified her spouse as a middle lesser. She continues to be so hung up on it and in the throes of emotional torture it actually is painful to watch. I’ve never seen anything quite like it and she’s spinning and spinning with no progress. These labels seem better viewed as simply having certain characteristics. She swears he’s a greater and plotting against her and it impacts me to see her so stuck.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I’m not offended, I’m actually quite relieved! I think many people think the school of your narc reflects something about you, thus, everyone want to discover theirs are Greaters thinking that means they are smart or beautiful or powerful enough to attract one. Personally, I don’t need a Greater to feel good about myself and the prospect of being destroyed by one doesn’t look very attractive. On the other hand, if HG says mine is an UL, there’s no question that he is.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Well stated

          9. Cyn says:

            I’m glad nobody will be smearing dog poo on my house or throwing bricks through my house.

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Right? Or killing your pet, or posting your pics on a porn site, or calling your work, or setting a tracking device on your car, or setting a fake restraining order against you… the repertoire is quite ample. I’m content with a Lesser, thank you very much. And I’m more than happy without any, even better.

          11. Cyn says:

            The tracking device would not be a surprise. Coborrower on car. I had it checked. But new cars have them built in sometimes. So if I default he could probably find it.

          12. MommyPino says:

            It’s never good to try to charm or train poisonous snakes. It doesn’t matter is it’s just a common rattler or an exotic and rare African viper, they will still bite you. In some ways if I compare Lessers with a common rattlesnake, they are less dangerous because their rattlers or lack of control in their behaviors give it away and sends off a warning to stay away from them.

          13. WAF Tudorita says:

            WORD! My kids dad hasn’t been HG aasessed yet but he’s a blunt tool for sure and a total train wreck of addictions, fuck up and tantrums so I’m pretty sure he’s a ML.
            And a VICTIM one at that.
            Made it easy to escape back in the day and easy to maintain NC
            If I’m not bothering him to parent, hes perfectly pleasant at any interaction
            And i stopped mothering him years ago , so he doesn’t have any interest in me

          14. FYC says:

            Hi Lorelei, When I first read the descriptions I had the impression lessers were unintelligent, and this hampered my detection skills, but over time, after reading many readers accounts of their own encounters with a lesser, I gained a more clear view. I don’t know if this will help, but it seems there are two things influencing your friend, 1) paranoia post awareness: once narcissism is discovered, it seems so diabolical that many people jump to thinking they are with a Greater because they infer awareness, planning and intent, when it is actually instinctual. 2) intelligence denotes cognitive processing skill, not awareness. Self and other awareness is EQ vs IQ. I wonder if she is more caught up in the dynamic (or her own ego needs the verdict to be greater?) and is simply not ready to escape? Is she CoD?

          15. Lorelei says:

            Exactly all of this FYC! Whether she’s CoD or not I have no idea but the rest of what you’ve written is spot on. It’s tough because it’s like nails down a chalkboard for me to listen to it—not because listening to her is something I don’t wish to do but because it is all consuming and makes me think of my own scenario!

          16. FYC says:

            Understandable Lorelei. I hope she finds her way through it and I am sure having your understanding helps her too.

          17. Lorelei says:

            Thanks FYC. It’s just hard to watch because it doesn’t have to spin in circles and you don’t have to spend over 100K on a divorce with no end in sight.

          18. Shelf Fuel says:

            I used to think Piano Boy was a Greater since his moves often seemed calculated AND he seemed to know what he was doing, how I reacted, etc.

          19. Lorelei says:

            Shelf fuel—I’ve never thought of anyone as a greater in my life except for myself! I am now greater than all these people we learn about here because their games aren’t very fancy! I just have to hone my ability to know what I’m seeing by means of assessing others behaviors. In fact, I’ll go as far as to say their need for control is so elementary I find it amusing watching those I know that are narcissists function with no self awareness. Think about it—on another thread Jim Carrey was discussed. His seemingly authentic altruism as a Demi-god is hilarious because it comes from a pathological place. The truth??? The truth? When he broke it off with Jenny McCarthy he devalued not only her but her son who he helped foster through autism. The truth? The kid was an appliance and he gained fuel being “Mr. Save the day!” He baffled Jenny by having nothing to do with either of them after the end of the formal relationship. She openly eluded to being upset and baffled. She’s an adorable person as she is a friend of a friend that was on the playboy circuit at one time. The difference? My college ex’s kids and ex-wife and I—we have authentic connections. Our emotional spectrum can be crippling based on being “victims” but learning to be self protective can lead to our own greatness because we have greater innate possibilities. So be greater shelf fuel and quit talking about this douche bag—talk about you and what you are going to do! You won’t be great circling the drain perseverating on him. Really! HG—adore you!

          20. SP,

            ” thus, everyone want to discover theirs are Greaters thinking that means they are smart or beautiful or powerful enough to attract one. ”

            Similar to how many empaths want to identify themselves as super empaths as if it is somehow better.

          21. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Of course! Magnet Super Empaths galore, even without having been assessed.

          22. Totally… 🙂

          23. SMH says:

            SP, I have said in these pages that I do not worry about identifying Greaters because I do not think I am Greater bait! As for the SE thing, the first time I saw the post I thought it fit because I can put up with a lot and have gone through what looks to be a super nova explosion, but now that I see what everyone else experienced, maybe I am less patient, more selfish and more breakable than I think. I have never been assessed but if I am not Greater material I am probably not an MSE either!! In fact, I think I am some sort of savior empath. But I just had a thing with a guy I think is a codependent, and my patience lasted all of two weeks.

            HG, how do empaths react to codependents? I don’t think I’ve seen that addressed. Is it hard to tell the difference at first between a narc and a cod, as neither has any boundaries. I don’t think this guy was a narc because he was such a pleaser and very open, but he tried to insinuate himself into my life and drag me into his so quickly that I freaked.

          24. WAF Tudorita says:

            Haha! Not since the MMM on BLL discovery!

        2. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Besides, we can call them our “children of the scorn.”

          1. Anm says:

            Sweetest Perfection,
            That is my experience with my daughters father. He can come off as a Greater on paper. He tried out for the Olympics in his younger years, he’s college educated, and he does well for himself financially. His online dating profile, his pictures of him looking sexy traveling the world. But too much of what he has is from force and coercion. He lacks the machiavellianism of a Greater, that’s what gives him away as being a Lesser. His narcissism literally has him programmed to tell me his next move. It’s usually and threat, or a grandiose idea with magical thinking, but he can’t help but show you his cards with foreshadowing.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Ann, oh, mine is an open book. Once you find out what he is everything falls into place by itself. He lives his life in repeated cycles, and everything goes to Facebook. He acts with grandiosity but I just laugh at his sorry attempts of manipulation now. The diurnal wolf on his path to misery as HG very well said.

          3. Anm says:

            Are Lessers less about the Grandiosity, and more about dragging people down to their level? I feel like, not only does he lack Machiavellianism, like a Greater, he is also starting to lack Grandiosity. He is more about everyone being miserable, and bored, than living a vibrant life. He complains about people non stop.
            Example, he sent an email tonight that isn’t even worth responding to. It’s him claiming I am in contempt of court for not following our judge’s orders. This of course was just him interpreting the order incorrectly to depict that my parenting is irresponsible, and that I can not handle the responsibility or freedom that the judge allows me.
            It’s not just me. Towards the end of our relationship, I saw him rage about how much he hated people.
            So in other words, instead of bolstering themselves up, Lessers will often opt into dragging a challenger down?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            There are a vast array of traits which are applicable to our kind. Some of these traits manifest in all of our kind, but in differing degrees, whilst some are absent from the schools. Grandiosity will appear for UL, LMR and UMR and Greater but will manifest in different ways between those sub schools. His email was provocation and deflection. You witnessed ignited heated fury towards the end of the relationship. All narcissists will bolster themselves and all narcissist will cut others down, but in differing ways. If you need assistance ascertaining the school use this it is why I offer them.

    2. empath007 says:

      Hahahaha those are hilarious 🤣

    3. njfilly says:

      Those statements he made are very strange!

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Njfilly, you know what was more strange? Not his original statements but the fact he liked to steal mine and post them on Facebook as his.
        Me, while looking at a piece of art in a museum we visited: “I love this painting. I could sit here and look at it forever.”
        Later on, posted on his Facebook, picture of the painting and his words: “I love this painting. I could actually have sat and look at it forever.”
        Me, joking about summer: “Everyone is trying to finish work and all I can think of is shopping bikinis for the summer.”
        Later on, his joke on Facebook: “Everyone is trying to finish work and all I want to do is shop for swimming trunks for the summer.”

        Etc, etc.

        1. njfilly says:

          That is very strange. And creepy. He had no emotional thoughts or sentimentality so he had to borrow yours! (I’m sure he’ll return them).

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I’m sure he won’t, at least not to me. I’m under NC and though I have my silly ET outbursts, I won’t break it.

        2. SMH says:

          SP, I have to laugh. MRN would post the same photo on IG that IPPS had posted on hers – he wouldn’t steal the photo. He would just take the same shot and post it. It might have been because he was only on IG due to family pressure and could not be arsed. But I also began to suspect that something really WAS wrong with him when I discovered the IG trove. It was the only time I could watch him interact with other people and be in the world outside of our little bubble. I didn’t tell him I had found it until my break up email, some eight months later.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            That’s weird too, SMH. It took me a while to realize the main thing mine wanted from me was character traits. I even caught him mimicking my “sex face” while making out! It was really creepy.

          2. empath007 says:

            It just keeps on getting better with your UL 🤣 I’m going to assume what you have at home just knocks that looser right out of the park lol.

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I have another Empath at home. He knocks any loser down.

          4. empath007 says:

            Oh I know. I remember your stories. A) because I’m extremly jealous of the empath you have at home whom you have the amazing sex with. Bursting out in laughter (I know… I remember details of what people say…. id make a fantastic narc if only I could manipulate with all this information I retain about people 🤔)

            And B) you always seem awesome to me SP. if I’d meet you in real
            Life you’re the kind of person I’d want to grab a drink with whilst making fun of our narcs haha

          5. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Empath007, thanks so much for your kind words about me. I indeed am the kind of person you want to hang out and have a drink with, hahaha! I wish we could!

          6. SMH says:

            SP, Your sex face. LOL. Honestly it made me think that MRN had Aspergers, but that was before I found HG. I guess MRN wanted character traits from me too, which is why I felt he was competing with me all the time. When a really HUGE thing happened in my work life and I was excited to tell him, because it was close to his own specialisms and I thought he would be interested and maybe, just maybe, proud of me!, he asked pertinent questions but never brought it up himself after that. I think we only discussed it one other time and that was in the context of whether I could leave my job and follow him around.

  40. Cyn says:

    We wouldn’t have all these problems if you would just behave!

    You are taking it out of context!

    I love you deeply, it’s just all your baggage (referring to my child and my dog) that make things difficult.

    I have invested in you selflessly!

    You have emotional outbursts too and I love you even more for them.

    Don’t be a quitter. I know it’s not rational, but we have had problems like this before and we always work it out because we love each other.

    You have had a ruff (yes he misspelled it) life, no wonder you are so bitter. (When I told him we had no further need to communicate.

    1. Leigh says:

      Oh my gosh! I forgot about him saying we wouldn’t have these problems if I would just behave, not overreact and not be so sensitive. He even said to me once after a month of no issues, “you’ve been really good lately”. They are all pieces of work!

      1. Renarde says:

        In all of your posts, who is the protagonist? It’s just not clear and I think you have something important to say.

        I know its hard. Try to be clear x

  41. Shelf Fuel says:

    P.S. I love it when I read the word “Bullocks” on here. I can imagine you saying it with your accent and it makes me laugh my ass off. Do you guys use the word “Poppycock” too?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Only when preparing for a game of whist and a vulgar makes an improper suggestion.

      1. Renarde says:

        Oh darling, that reminds me, I forgot to say. I went around the the Fairbanks the other day. I was promised a game of Bridge. Well, darling, it soon transpired that it wasn’t Bridge at all. It was Whist. I demurred, softly and elegantly standing in my red fox fur stole by the mantelpiece.

        I was just enjoying my second Martini (they are fun?) when a chap made it known to me that it was a Whist ‘drive’.

        My darling, you know me! That simply is not on! It’s like a cattle market! All those people!
        I made my excuses and left. I asked my chauffeur, Darling, to take me straight to bed!

        One cannot mix with the ‘hoi poloi’.

    2. cogra002 says:

      Shelfuel, I had a British boyfriend briefly. A former Royal Marine. He used to say Bollocks and Bloody Hell.
      I got a kick out of it too.
      Reminded me of Nigel when HG said that

      1. Bibi says:

        I made out with a British guy when I was in college. (I am American and attended a Mid Western uni.) He was from Bristol (graduate exchange student) and looked like a brunette version of Brad Pitt from Legends of the Fall. I was 20 and he was 26. Good kisser. Never saw him again though! 🙁 So heartbroken! He was so adorable!

        1. cogra002 says:

          I felt the same of Nigel. He stays in touch here and there. Colossally good kisser as well. I’d like to kiss more Brits, lol.
          He’s is Australia now where there is no extradition. I do have a type.

    3. BonnieLou says:

      I’m English and my Commercial Director at work says “Fuckadoodledoo!!!” 😂😂😂

      1. cogra002 says:


      2. Renarde says:

        A bit David Brent, much?

  42. Shelf Fuel says:

    I am the Queen of sharing Piano Boy’s words on here. “Grandiose prose” – OMG yes!!! To infinity and fucking beyond….

    All the time with “dear” and “darling”. At first I figured it was because he lived in the south and it was common for people to use greetings like “sweetie” and “honey”. (which it is depending on where you are down here)

    But all the time with it…even over text!

    My darling girl….
    Dear one…
    My dear…
    My sweet…

    After every text. Sometimes it felt like I was conversing with a robot.

    “Good Morning, my darling girl.”
    “Hi there.”
    “How are you today, my darling?”
    “I am well, thank you, how about you?”
    “I am fine my dear…”

    Other times it was less lovey dovey and it was “HEY KIDDO!” or “Hey Kid!” (yes, he called me kid!!! I am 5 1/2 years OLDER!) or “Hello my child of the corn”

    And I will of course never forget the infamous time he asked me for a phone call but he did it in the most oddest way. And as intelligent as I am I had no idea what the F he meant.

    “Will you suffer a phone call from me in about 15 minutes?”

    “What? Suffer? I enjoy talking to you, I don’t suffer through it”

    “Relax my darling. It means to “accept a call”. It is an Elizabethan expression. I like to theatricalize my verbiage!”

    Theatricalize? Verbiage?

    He was only ever grandiose with his words. Never his in-person demeanor. In-person he was a nerd, a goofball, kind of clumsy and awkward, he would drop his wallet all the time and accidentally leave his glasses on his seat and then sit on them. I thought it was adorable though. He was very self loathing though.

    But the words….oh holy hell those words.

    1. Mary says:

      Gabs! “My child of the corn”… I’m dying here 🤣

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Hahahaha, wasn’t that a horror movie?

        1. Bibi says:

          Children of the Corn. With Linda Hamilton. Hilariously bad. Roger Ebert’s review of it is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

      2. EmP says:

        Shelf Fuel, I googled ‘children of the corn’ and yes, horror movie where the children had to kill everyone over 18. Hmmm OK. But why would he call you that??! I don’t get it.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          See? I remember that movie.

        2. Shelf Fuel says:

          Backhanded compliment? HG? Anyone? Bueller?

          1. WAF Tudorita says:

            Flat out insult, I’d say

          2. Shelf Fuel says:

            So he is basically saying I am an evil child? I never saw the movie but since it is a horror moving I assume “evil child”?

          3. WAF Tudorita says:

            Children of the Corn
            “A young couple is trapped in a remote town where a dangerous religious cult of children believe everyone over the age of 18 must be killed.”

          4. MommyPino says:

            Shelf Fuel, I remember HG’s article about withholding intimacy where they kiss the victim on the forehead to denote that they are like a child which means the narcissist is superior to the victim. It is probably the same way implying that in your relationship with him, he is the mature one and in charge.

            Children of the corn, there are so many insults that you can take from it. One is you are like a child (immature or incapable of looking after yourself). The movie is about children who were following an evil cult. They were so brainwashed that they just blindly kill people because of their devotion or belief in their cult. It’s also set in a corn field in the Midwest which also has a lot of stereotypes related to it.

          5. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Nice tangerine pedicure, MP! Haha.

          6. MommyPino says:

            Hahaha thank you SP. It can be tangerine or red depending on your perspective. 😉😘

          7. Shelf Fuel says:

            It makes sense. Kid, Kiddo, etc. He views me as something of a child that he is superior to. A child of the corn though, yeah adds a new twisted insult layer to it. Of course to him I am sure he thinks he is being endearing.

            Makes me realize that darling girl, my darling, dear one, my dear, etc. are also condescending as well.

          8. MommyPino says:

            Hi Shelf Fuel, I think for me it’s not so much the words but his actions that would tell you best if he is condescending to you or looks at you with high or low value. Narcissists in general tend to be contemptuous in their mindset, even towards the people who are kind to them. I think it doesn’t matter much what he means when he calls you darling, dear one, my dear etc. If he doesn’t treat you with value with his actions then he’s just using you and probably has contempt or low regard of you. It’s best to just get rid of them and show them that they are wrong.

          9. Cyn says:

            I think the fact that he is a narcissist, the fact that you are IPSS, the fact that you are in his fuel matrix in any capacity in fact, the fact that you are here still involved with him and discussing and referring to yourself as Shelf Fuel is indicative of your level of value to him. I know that hurts. And of your value to yourself.

          10. Renarde says:

            Hmm ‘Children of the Corn’ is a really interesting choice of words. My instinct is that he senses not that you are evil but you are dangerous.

            Yeah, that’s really interesting actually.

          11. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi shelf fuel…my narc has done the same and its covert aggression. The pet article reminds me of this. Covert nicknames that amuse and make the narc feel superior in the way they can throw a nickname out there and it be a hidden insult. They are always testing boundaries. The fact you didnt ask about the child of the corn probably makes him feel he got one over on you. It is a disrespect for sure.
            My narc has done this too and i look at it as pathetic. If you want to insult me insult me dont pussy foot around it by using covert tactics. They disrespect yet use covertness bc they are afraid to lose their fuel source by being openly disrespectful which is pathetic in itself.
            My narc has done the same thing in the past but ive called him out on it and turned the tables. Ive not gotten upset but ive asked and put him on the spot and made him look dumb. One time when we were texting he sent me a gif after which we do when online usually cutesy ones or funny ones but he sent one that said “nobody likes you”. I look back to what was going on at the time and i was and still am building a side business where im meeting a lot of new people and having fun. This was imo a way to get a dig in and knock me down. I right away asked why he sent it and he scrambled saying hed not looked at the whole gif which knowing him well enough i know he did. See…gaslighting! No i trust my gut and it was intentional and probably bc he felt insecure about what i have going on in my life so he had to throw a covert insult in this case not so covert but he was a coward and pretended it was an accident. Its about superiority.
            I suspect piano boy disrespects you bc you stick around and allow him to use you despite not giving much to you in the way of attention. Also he maybe feels resentment over needing your fuel and the times youve stood up to him to get more from the relationship. He is so signature midranger from what youve posted. My narc im confused bc he never feels sorry for himself yet can also be covert in his aggression so i had thought lesser greater.
            I fully get the covert insult thing bc my narc has done it as well. Ill have to think back on the occasions he has. Ive always put him on the spot tho and asked why bc if i dont i feel inferior to him and thats a horrible feeling. I already do in the fact ive stayed despite a lot of the past.
            You have the right to ask when feeling insulted and turn the tables in a non overly emotional response.
            I wouldve said…why do you call me child of the corn? Its unflatering please dont refer to me that way. Point blank. It gives you back your power!

          12. Chihuahuamum says:

            Shelf fuel…i think too your narc views himself as holier than thou and youve corrupted him. That could also be why he used children of the corn like youre an evil inferior to him. I get so upset reading how he treats you. He really does feel hes this religious family man and that you have this spell over him he cant resist…blame shifting. Hes the evil one stringing two women along. Hes definitely a midranger! He deludes himself thinking hes hard done by and being influenced by “evil”. What an ass!

      3. cogra002 says:

        I’ve been known to address my students as “children of the corn”

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:


        2. Bibi says:

          “Malachi!” Has a 36% on RT. Even as a kid I found it completely boring and unscary! I can’t imagine the book is any better. Stephen King…nice guy, seems like an empath but my god he writes such crap.

  43. K says:

    The picture of The Golden Turd is a riot!

    This paragraph below is on my local neighborhood thread re: opioid use and I suspect that this individual is a lesser narcissist. This was copied and pasted in its entirety, minus the names. Pay attention to the syntax.

    Sorry but false, alcoholics and cocaine addicts not to mention just kids eating tiepods, or whatever else it maybe. I highly doubt someone addicted to opioids is going to use and vomit in the same area, more than once. Opiod crisis is huge, qnd im a survivor with almost a decade of burying old friends, while im clear headed. This is why i wrote my book, its for the misguided ignorant to the facts and just wanna blame opioid abuse. My book is about me the feelings emotion or lack of and all the things people should know. So I dumped my bucket of misery on paper while I was behind walls opioids put me behind and while I was on the street and while I’ve been sober for almost a decade is the feelings facts emotions poetry just straight raw feelings of a street addict with no regard for Society at all but it’s for the society that doesn’t understand what’s wrong with this son child Dad or Mom sister or uncle they don’t know what’s going on inside of them they don’t understand it’s not them it’s what they need and I say need because you feel like you’re going to die so when you lose your diamond ring to your son don’t kick him out of the house try to talk to them cuz the hardest thing to do is admit that you using heroin to your mother who gave you life and say you need help nobody wants to look at dad in the eye and say Dad I failed at life and want help because I am using a needle to get high nobody can do that unless they’re ready to do that and sometimes they don’t get the chance to do that because of ignorant people that don’t understand the raw feeling of needing a substance to feel normal and that normality is a father Sting from the little boy or girl you raised or father and mother you grew up with Dad normality is now a demon that is ready to do whatever it needs to do to make sure he can just get it out or sleep that night I will not say the name of my book is not a plug but it’s things like that stat drive me nuts God Bless America

    1. Shelf Fuel says:

      Agreed on the golden turd.

      As I theatricalize my verbiage.

      1. K says:

        Shelf Fuel
        Ha ha ha…HG has a superlative sense of humor.

  44. cogra002 says:

    So many it’s hard to pick.

    “I’m only talking to you (copy paste paste paste)
    “There’s no one else I talk to every day like I do with you”(copy paste paste paste)
    “I wrote this song with u in mind” (copy paste paste paste)
    “You’re my best friend ” (copy paste paste paste)
    “Let’s do another video together ” (copy paste paste paste)

    Etc etc etc
    I’ll have to think of a bigger steaming load . I have them.

    1. Cyn says:

      Ha! When I first met mine he popped off with some some cheesy song lyrics and I happen to have a thing for lyrics (maybe a little ASD thing) so I quickly called him on the title of the song and embarrassed him lol!

      1. cogra002 says:

        Narc writes songs frequently. He’s pretty good, actually. I’m kind of a sucker for that too, lol.
        Except I doubt they are just for me.

        “Sweets” another term of endearment when I’m painted white. That comes and goes depending on if I’m white or black.

        “Little Girl” is another. He likes that I’m petite, but if we order drinks he’ll say “that’s a big drink little girl”

        1. NarcAngel says:


          So the next time he’s naked I wonder how ” those are some beautiful balls for a little man!” would go over.

          Not suggesting you do that. Just pointing out how the supposed endearment/compliment only flows one way.

          1. cogra002 says:

            Hahaha!! Unfortunately hed probably like it if I called him “little boy”

    2. Joanne says:

      “You’re the only one I talk to. There is no one else” 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣

      But, followed up with, “it’s not for a lack of options, it’s just that no one even comes close to you”
      😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂 Because of course he had to remind me of how high in demand he was 🙄

      1. Cyn says:

        I think we had the same person lol

      2. empath007 says:

        No doubt he was correct about the latter Joanne! You are in high demand…. but he can’t reach your level !

        1. Joanne says:

          Lol, e007- he was referring to himself 😂 As many times as he would insist that I was the only one, he had to add in the disclaimer that it wasn’t because he didn’t have opportunities, he just chose to forgo them for me 🙄

          1. empath007 says:

            Haha ! Naturually how could I make such a mistake? 🤣

          2. Joanne says:

            It could be the newfound confidence you have, and you’re projecting it on me 😉 I don’t mind at all!

  45. Leigh says:

    So many of his words were bull baloney! The one that sticks out the most is after he was done ignoring and avoiding me, he would tell me he was just giving me the space I needed. Thanks a$$hole, I didn’t need space, you did. Even on his last Hoover attempt, he said, “I was respecting your wishes and giving you the space you needed.” Such bullshit! Thank you Mr. Tudor. Your blog and books have given me the strength to not go back.

    1. Shelf Fuel says:


      Oh do not even get me started on “space”. Piano Boy asks me for space and then will ask to talk again and then try to make me doubt myself when I agree to talk to him. “Are you sure you want to talk?” WTF! I was giving him he space I thought HE wanted!

      There really is a playbook.

      1. Leigh says:

        I shouldn’t laugh but I have to because he would say the same exact thing to me! Are you sure you want to talk, I don’t want to make you do anything you don’t want to. I want to respect your boundaries. WTF is right!!!

        1. Shelf Fuel says:

          Yep I heard all the same stuff too!

      2. Bibi says:

        I gave that Mid Ranger fucker so much time and space that I had issued him his own galaxy. He was good with words but I am better.

    2. blackunicorn123 says:

      Leigh….ah, yes….after disappearing for months whilst in the GP with his new IPPS, he was apparently “giving me room to breathe”.

      1. Leigh says:

        One of the first things he said to me was that he can’t escape me. Yeah right! He didn’t have any problem escaping when he disengaged with me.

  46. MB says:

    And this…”you died five seconds ago but your brain is just catching up.” Brilliant!

  47. MB says:

    “your gast flabbered” HG, you’re a riot!

    1. Shelf Fuel says:

      Flabber of the Gast!!!!! LOL.

  48. BonnieLou says:

    OMG!! FR David!!😍He played a Fender Stratocaster like a master!…now I’m wondering just how old are you HG?😉😂😂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      As I have pointed out before, knowing about a wealth of matters spanning time, space and subject is to do with a voracious appetite for knowledge, not one´s age.

      1. BonnieLou says:

        I’m just joking with you HG😊, but FR David!! That really was random😂😂😂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No it wasn’t, it was entirely apt to the article.

          1. E&L says:

            HG, I suspect you are a polymath.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Your suspicion is well founded.

          3. K says:

            Hello E&L
            Very good. This is a short article and I think you may enjoy it.


          4. BonnieLou says:

            Yes, I do get that it was completely relevant to the article, I just thought that FR David had been banished to the vast realms of one hit wonders..but the reference gave me a good laugh and brought back some very fond memories of a Horse riding Instructor who looked so much like FR David😉

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Jolly good

          6. K says:

            HG wrote: Talk is Cheap, which is located in Confessions of a Narcissist where he references FR David and it complements this article very well.

            “Words are my weapons.”

          7. E&L says:

            Hi K,
            Thanks for the article and for your generosity, always. Had no idea this posted reference existed. I subscribed to the blog on 7/4/18 after hearing HG the Polymath interviewed for the June 1st WNAAD Telesummit.

          8. K says:

            My pleasure E&L
            If you have the time, read some of the archived articles. I think you will enjoy them very much.

    2. K says:

      He’s a Gen-Xer and he’s under fifty.

      1. kel2day says:

        I’m guessing late 30’s to 41 years old for HG, not that it matters, except in some ways I do take it into account sometimes.

        Anyone, even in their early twenties, can be extremely knowledgeable and helpful as they’ve taken a little time to absorb and understand things and the history of those things that are too painstaking for others of us, and their youthful spin makes them more entertaining and interesting, not boring. I’m relating this about a young guy at work who’s a wealth of information in a calm and easygoing package. He knows more about things than most people, and he’s so quiet, but can explain things so easily in a social way. He wears bow ties!

        1. K says:

          There are clues in Fury and Confessions of a Narcissist (My Kind and Me).

          1. kel2day says:

            I’m guessing his age based on a hunch I have from an unintentional clue from our old comments. Also the things he’s interested in, SM’s apparent age range, and his IG kite surfing, all point to someone in their late thirties to 41 to me. I can’t pour through the books right now, are there specific clues you found in them that point to his age?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Hg approves

          3. K says:

            Do you have the book Fury or Confessions of A Narcissist?

            This clue: “Weebles wobble but they don’t fall down.” is located in the article: Tell Me What You Are Thinking.
            And his love of Depeche Mode is also indicative of a Gen-Xer (40-54). Based on the clue in Fury, I don’t think HG is a Millennial (25-39). And don’t forget he was engaged twice and married once (no children).

          4. Claire says:

            K, I second that opinion about HG age:)Although I fully respect his privacy.
            Depeche Mode and Duran Duran were popular in 80’s . Also in the article about his first love, Amanda , and their school trip he described the girl wearing bright yellow jacket . This is 80’s fashion.
            90’ s were the golden years of Seattle rock, the grunge fashion , I still have a penchant love for Doc Martens.
            No way HG is a Millennial. He is too wise and educated, even the brightest Millennials cannot compare to HG .
            The mindset is different- HG is on fond on luxury like posh restaurants, Mont Blanc pen, expensive gifts – I made these conclusion based on his writing.
            Millennials are different – hipster venues, music festivals, etc, more down to earth.

          5. Cyn says:


          6. K says:

            I agree; millennial’s have a very different mindset than Gen-Xers and the bright yellow jacket is a good clue, as well.

            kel2day and Cyn I went looking for clues and found this:

            HG Tudor says:
            August 25, 2017 at 10:41
            Thank you (I think) I am neither spotty, obese, a teenager or 50 years old. I have been a teenager, I will be 50 years old in some time, I have had a few spots when younger and have never been obese nor will be. (located on older comments)


          7. Claire says:

            Thank you for the link, K:) Lol, this is hilarious – people assuming not only HG’s wrong age but also his look. Never seems to amaze me why anyone who is aged around their 40’s and above must be balding, must be obese , wrinkled , with flabby body parts , etc . Such a wrong stereotype! I imagine HG around my age and being tall and with a toned body given the fact he is an Elite . Therefore, a lot of self care ,including Botox, facials, clean eating, exercise and so on – the list is long:)
            I worked with a lot of Millennials ( both genders), dated few , so definitely he is not a Millennial. Even my smart and well spoken Millennial ex bf cannot compete on intellectual level with HG ! HG is not only gifted with a brilliant brain but also has more wisdom than any Millennial- they lack our life experience ( Gen X).
            We have been longer in this world and we have experienced more ( both good and bad ). Yes , many Millennials are bright and mature individuals but the wisdom comes with the age 🙂
            Off topic – I prefer Millennials than my generation, more relaxed and more fun:)

          8. K says:

            My pleasure Claire
            I think you are right. Millennials are more relaxed about status, romance, jobs, weed (they call it bud) and they seem more earth friendly than Gen-Xers. I like Gen-Xers because we share memories of the Crazy Eighties but I like the attitude of Millennials better.

            HG is 6’ 1” with blond hair (similar to Daniel Craig’s hair color), blue eyes and full lips. 
 He is a Gen-Xer, however, 3 fresh souls a day keeps him looking like he is 22. He does not smoke (It’s a filthy and disgusting habit) or have any tattoos and his IQ is 134 (he scored a 1 on the HSP test).

            His Family Motto: Victoria Aut Morte, favorite band: Depech Mode. There are 25 hours in a Tudor day, and he enjoys eating souls for fun. HG was born in autumn and he is a Virgo and has 2 wishes: an extra set of hands and for people to understand he does not do the blog for fuel and he likes to create ever presence with the fragrance Viking by Creed.

            Authors that he enjoys reading:
            Iain Banks, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, Brett Easton Ellis, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Samuel Beckett, Philippa Gregory, Terry Pratchett, Irvine Welsh off the top of my head.

          9. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I thought he only read Chaucer if the girl he’s pursuing likes Chaucer. I know he likes Shakespeare and some contemporary authors as well. Of course we know he adores Depeche but also, he hates Coldplay and Celine Dion haha.

          10. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            HG is very well read and he also likes dystopian literature but I am sure, if you were reading Memoirs of a Geisha, he would like that, too.

            HG Tudor says:
            May 21, 2017 at 19:28
            Brave New World
            A Clockwork Orange
            Children of Men
            The Handmaid’s Tale
            Fahrenheit 451
            The Chrysalids
            So Androids Dream of Electric Sheep
            High Rise

          11. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I’ve read Memoirs of a Geisha! Lol I’m happy to see we could have a conversation about books and music. I just took the Chaucer reference from one of HG’s books, could it be Manipulated?

          12. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            I read it, too, and I enjoyed it very much. There aren’t many readers around my neck of the woods so it’s nice to “meet” fellow readers online.

            It’s been a while since I read Manipulated but I copied and pasted this comment from: Tickety
            Boo or Not So Pucker, October 2018.

            HG Tudor says:
            October 11, 2018 at 14:43
            Iain Banks, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, Brett Easton Ellis, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Samuel Beckett, Philippa Gregory, Terry Pratchett, Irvine Welsh off the top of my head.

          13. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I wonder what Beckett he has read. My narc also reads, but being the envious motherfucker he is, he constantly ridiculed any of my reading choices, for example, Blake. He actually posted a picture on social media of my favorite book on top of his toilet. Which not only tells me he’s an asshole who was trying to get my negative fuel, but also, that I will never borrow a book from him. Well now I will never anyway because I’m out staying out so he can keep his books full of poopoo.

          14. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…I’m gonna go with a malign hoover in this instance.

          15. Sweetest Perfection says:

            No because that was pre-entanglement. He just enjoyed making me mad as friends.

          16. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…back to school for you. You were entangled as a NISS (friend) before being upgraded to IPSS so it looks like he teased/provoked you (a supplementary source) to get you mad (your emotional response) and that’s a hoover in Narc Land. Ha ha ha…I could be wrong but that’s what it looks like to me.

          17. Sweetest Perfection says:

            K, I always understood the concept of hoover as an attempt to make you engage again with the narc after being shelved, after escaping, or after disengagement. While we were just friends he didn’t need to hoover me, we were always in touch. However, I am more of this type of attitude: who the hell cares now? Hoover, non hoover, that’s not my problem. I am over this and whatever he thinks I am to him it’s just his problem, not mine.

          18. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…well, it’s very clear that you are over him and his books full of poopoo.

          19. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank god I never borrowed one from him! I gave him a book the last time we were together. He didn’t read it. But he also asked me to read something and I didn’t give a shit so we are tied, except that I treat my books with the due respect.

          20. Lorelei says:

            Clockwork Orange had a scene that made me nearly ill!

          21. K says:

            Unspeakable violence.

          22. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Sometimes I go Clockwork Orange to work when I forget to put mascara in both eyes, hahaha! I’m very absentminded.

          23. Lorelei says:

            K—I need a few book suggestions. I’m going to be bored week after next and need a hobby. (Seriously—I’m grounded that week)
            No science fiction. Sad is ok but sunny is better.

          24. K says:

            These books are both funny and well written: A Walk In The Woods by Bill Bryson or Skinny Dip by Carl Hiaasen*.

            I also recommend Deliverance by James Dicky and Eye of The Needle by Ken Follet (thriller/suspense). Those are very good and not long.

            When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi is a beautifully written book that’s absolutely heartbreaking. It’s a short memoir by Paul Kalanithi (neurosurgeon) who was diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer and the book is a NYTs bestseller.

            For relaxing, funny fluff reading, try the Stephanie Plum bounty hunter series by Janet Evanovich: One for the Money.

            Don’t feel obligated to read or like them.

            *CH’s brother, Rob Hiaasen, was shot and killed by Jarrod Ramos during The Capital Gazette mass shooting (2018) in Annapolis, Maryland. Jarrod Ramos was angered by a newspaper article, that was published by The Capital Gazette in 2011, regarding his probation for harassment and cyber stalking of a former classmate.

          25. Lorelei says:

            Thank you thank you! I can’t recall if I replied already?! I have a span of days off work upcoming. I have some things to do, but not enough to fill my time—I can’t sit idle.

          26. K says:

            My pleasure Lorelei!

          27. Claire says:

            Wow K, I didn’t expect HG to have any tattoos, he is classy ; about his physical traits somehow I thought he was dark ( dark hair), tall and handsome ( from his book Narc Tales).
            But what really impressed me about HG is that he reads Orwell, Samuel Beckett and Geoffrey Chaucer. I remember hiding The Canterbury Tales book under my textbooks at home when I was 13 – I pretended that I was doing my homework instead ; I simply couldn’t put the book back after started reading it:)

            A good choice of fragrance though 👍🏻

          28. HG Tudor says:

            HG approves.

          29. Lorelei says:

            You have tattoos? Just catching up on this thread. Love/hate on your knuckles HG?

          30. HG Tudor says:

            I don’t have any tattoos.

          31. Cyn says:

            Woke up to this silly thread, partly silly because I keep waking up 30 minutes earlier than I want so it’s 5 a.m. so I will join in. HG do you have any dimples? Perhaps 1 on left? Do you get your Nails cleaned and buffed shiny professionally?

          32. HG Tudor says:

            No. Yes.

          33. Cyn says:

            Nice! Clean nails are so important and so often overlooked. It’s all about the details. I’m not condoning this as better predatory skills but just in general.

          34. K says:

            I thought he might be tall, dark and handsome like Dracula but he is tall, blond and handsome like Herve Renard and I had a feeling that he wouldn’t have any tattoos either. HG is very well read and I am very impressed by that. In my world, that is rare. I read The Canterbury Tales when I was fourteen and that’s when I really started to enjoy reading classic literature.

            If you haven’t already, you may enjoy listening to Perfect Scents on Youtube.

          35. Claire says:

            That’s cool to meet online another lover of the classic literature, K:). I listened to Perfect Scents today – honestly, I never ever thought to give any guy a bottle of my perfumes:). I put the empty bottles in my drawers with lingerie and T-shirts. Let alone to sleep with someone’ s else at night ( on a scarf or on my pillowcase ) – I put few drops of Miss Dior instead 🙂
            Maybe I have created an Ever presence only at the gym studio as putting few- drops Light Blue before the workout is compulsory for me 🙂
            Hmm, maybe HG could create his own perfume line , like Fureur ( Fury ), Le Temps d’or ( The Golden time – sound better than period due to the other meaning of the word )Attiser ( Fuel) ,

          36. Cyn says:

            Ha! I can’t help but comment on the cuteness of this Dracula and fragrance line thing.

          37. K says:

            Ha ha ha…Evil is seductive.

          38. Cyn says:

            I know right! I always sided with the vampires and dark stuff, even as a five year old.

          39. K says:

            The Vampires are sexy! I was Team Jacob (werewolf) during the Twilight series but I have converted back to the vampires; less hairy.

          40. Cyn says:

            You must be super young! My vampires go way back lol. But yes Jacob is hot.

          41. K says:

            Don’t I wish! Ha ha ha…my daughter and her friends read the Twilight series when they were in high school and I read the first four books. Bella irritated me so much that I refused to read the last book.

          42. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Nooooo! Team Jacob foreva!!!

          43. Cyn says:

            Yeah, not big on body hair lol

          44. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I’m not big on suckers! Lol

          45. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…when it comes to the Twilight series, I will always be team Jacob!

          46. K says:

            Yes, not many people, in my world, have read The Count of Monte Cristo.

            This statement is a good example of your mindset: “honestly, I never ever thought to give any guy a bottle of my perfumes.” You are not a narcissist; you don’t need fuel so there is no need for you to create Ever Presence.

            Ha ha ha….that’s a great idea, a narcissistic fragrance line. A splash of Eau de Silent Treatment: The fragrance nightmares are made of.

          47. Sweetest Perfection says:

            K, hahaha that’s a great idea! It could be a trio of fragrances: “Eau de silent treatment,” “Love triangulation” and “Light de Gas.” My narc smelled of the second one.

          48. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…my MMRN wore Eau de Noir et Blanc: Every man has two sides.

          49. WAF Tudorita says:

            Lampe á Gaz 🤣

          50. kel2day says:

            Late 30’s to 41 years fits into both of those generations. He could’ve been married and divorced in his twenties, and he’s a narcissist so being twice engaged doesn’t mean they were lengthy relationships or engagements. Also, doesn’t HG say he doesn’t lie on the blog because he has no reason to? He could be pulling our legs for vanities sake, but I’m sticking with my hunch. As much as we like to envision someone we’ve only known online or on the phone, we’re usually surprised if we meet them how different they are to what we pictured. Besides, he just seems young to me. I have to reread Weebles Wobble, is there a clue you don’t want to give away, was there an event or time reference?

          51. K says:

            There are two excellent clues located in Fury (pages 40-41) that indicate that he is a Gen-Xer, also, Promiscuous Boy is a spin-off from Fury.

            Millennials were born between 1981-1996 so, if HG was born in 1981, then he was seven when he was seducing Sarah at University.


          52. K says:

            You may find this clue helpful; I found it on: Angel of My Creation.


            HG Tudor says:
            October 21, 2018 at 14:09
            There would not have been texting as text messaging was not available. It would be writing love letters, telephoning on the landline and speaking for hours, turning up at the house to look to do things together, small gifts, getting friends to mention me to her so I was spoken about, making a mix tape for her.

          53. kel2day says:

            I think he’s 41 years old. I’m trying to see it from those excerpts, but I’m hopeless, people were texting when smartphones were getting popular around 2010 more or less I think. My daughter’s in her early thirties with a masters degree, marriage, career, and two kids, and would be younger than him. My hunch regarding HG is with JC (not Jesus). Why does HG dislike him sooo much? Did he know him, is there something JC did to him? Did they go to school together? JC is 41 years old.

          54. K says:

            If you think HG’s 41, then that means he was unsupervised and having sex at the age of 7-8 with Sarah at university and I don’t think Sarah would have found a little boy sexually attractive, not to mention the pedophilia aspect.

            HG’s dislike for JC has nothing to do with his age.

            SMH says:
            August 20, 2018 at 00:16
            HG, why do Brits hate James Corden? And is ‘helmet’ the equivalent of asshat (or arsehat) or bellend?

            HG Tudor says:
            August 20, 2018 at 15:25
            Helmer is the equivalent of bellend.

            He is disliked because he lacks talent, is self-absorbed, has a stupid laugh, piggybacks the abilities of others and seems to be fucking everywhere at times.


          55. strongerwendyme says:

            HG is ageless 😉

          56. kel2day says:

            Regarding HG’s features, he also has arched eyebrows, from our conversations about narcissists having thick brows.

          57. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha.

          58. K says:

            Ha ha ha…I will add that into my HGT file. Thank you!

          59. K,

            I found some more items to add to the mystery of HG’s age.
            In ‘From the Mouth of The Narcissist’ book. Statements on pages 973 and 1749.

            And I like the thought of HG looking like Herve Renard (who is breath taking).

          60. K says:

            Whenever I see Herve Renard in his white shirt, I think:

            He’s too sexy for his shirt
            Too sexy for his shirt
            So sexy it hurts – Right Said Fred

          61. Oh my, yes. Yes he is

        2. FoolMe1Time says:

          Late 30’s to 41, You were being very kind in that remark dear. Lol

      2. MB says:

        K, I say he’s turning 50 this month. Happy Birthday month HG!

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. MB says:

            Happy Birthday anyway! Even if not the big 5-0 😘

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you.

          4. K says:


          5. Bibi says:

            HG, when you do turn the big 5-0h, I recommend you watch Woody Allen’s ‘Another Woman.’ 1988. Gena Rowlands. Fantastic film. One of my absolute faves.

            And it even has Rilke!

          6. HG Tudor says:

            I’ve diarised for it in 12 years.

        2. FYC says:

          Thanks for pointing this out, MB!

          Happiest birthday wishes for you HG, whatever day that may be. You are ageless, your work is timeless and the value it delivers is immeasurable.

          Fellow Empaths:
          Perhaps we can join together to buy HG a birthday gift that also benefits empaths in need? If every reader donates between $1 to $100, it would be quite a win-win for HG and empaths in need. What could be better? What do you say?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            HG approves. If readers do so, I will match what is donated in this fashion so there will be double in the pot to assist people.

          2. FYC says:

            Brilliant, HG, and most generous of you!!! Count me in and I hope everyone here joins in as well!

            Can we add a banner on the Angel page and repost too, just to get the word out broadly? Thank you!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I shall attend to this.

          4. FYC says:

            Thank you, HG, it’s a wonderful gesture.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            No problem, I see some generous individuals are up and running and stimulating my matching! It’s needed though, there’s a queue of people parked, waiting for the pot to grow again.

          6. FYC says:

            HG, I’ll be donating tomorrow in honor of your birth! I do hope the combo of your birthday and generosity to double the difference will make all the difference!

            Please, everyone join in the celebration! Donate any amount. It just might make the difference in turning someone’s life around!

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Well done and appreciated FYC.

          8. FYC says:

            HG, Most appreciate and the thanks belong to you.

          9. MB says:

            How long will you be matching HG?

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Until Friday

          11. FoolMe1Time says:

            Thank you HG! How long do we have to contribute that you will continue to match it?
            Btw, I will hold my Birthday wishes until a little later in the month Sir. 🙃

          12. HG Tudor says:

            I will do so until Friday

          13. FoolMe1Time says:

            What a wonderful idea! Count me in.

          14. MB says:

            Great idea FYC!

          15. FYC says:

            Thank you FM1T and MB, hugs for you both😘

        3. K says:

          He could also be a Tuesday’s child.

          1. MB says:

            K, as in full of grace? Or as in tomorrow?

          2. K says:

            Ha ha ha…full of grace.

        4. njfilly says:

          I suspect he is early to mid 40’s.

          1. Lorelei says:

            He’s close to 50 for sure. 47 or 48.

          2. HG Tudor says:


          3. Lorelei says:

            No it’s not. You are older than me unless you started dating at age 9.

          4. Cyn says:

            Lol 😂 wait 50 is hot. Dignified!

          5. FoolMe1Time says:

            I agree with you Lorelei, 48 or 49.

          6. HG Tudor says:


          7. Lorelei says:

            For sure! He’s older than I am but not much. Maybe we will be in the same nursing home and I’ll chase him in my wheelchair just to annoy him.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            You’re older than me.

          9. Lorelei says:

            Seriously? No way.

          10. K says:

            Ha ha ha…I think you are on the money.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Looks like you’ll be going bankrupt.

          12. K says:

            Ha ha ha…I’ll take my chances. Cluedo is fun!

        5. Kiki says:

          Must be in his mid to late forties .
          Depeche Modes music is early eighties a younger person would not be at all familiar with them and the taste in music is now quite different to 80s electro pop .
          You would have to be a teenager in those days to appreciate that music now .
          Also his voice has maturity and he has a lot of general life experience
          I hope HG is this age even older .It makes me trust in him more .
          If HG was in his twenties I don’t think I could take him as seriously
          Nothing sexier than a mature wise man not some young pup still wet behind the ears.


          1. Bibi says:

            Mid to late 40s. I just turned 43 last month and HG has to be older. My guess is he graduated hs in 1990. He also has an older voice of authority, where as I think I sound 12.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Easy tiger you’re putting unnecessary years on me.

          3. Cyn says:

            I’m going to take a stab at 42. Not because it matters, or that I care, or because I have the patience to have looked at the weeks/years, but because the image of those numbers popped onto the screen at the front of my brain. The bummer is that HG is choosing to be evasive so I won’t really know.

          4. HG Tudor says:


          5. Bibi says:

            What, HG? You have to be older. I can feel it. Born in 1974. There.

          6. HG Tudor says:


          7. empath007 says:

            Age is but a number HG.

          8. Bibi says:

            42 is too young. 44. And that is my lowest offer.

          9. HG Tudor says:


          10. Cyn says:

            This is so funny to observe.

          11. SMH says:

            You are 38, HG. Amirite?

          12. Chihuahuamum says:

            My guess is HG is 49 or 50 based on not only depeche mode but duran duran references. My guess graduated 87 or 88.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Way out.

          14. empath007 says:

            Agreed. Even at a young age I always fancied men in their 30s…. I was the girl with the pathetic crushes on my school teacher ( which now that I look back on 2/3 were narcs *sigh*) my history teacher idealized me (nothing sexual I was far too young and he never made any strange advances ) but he just thrust me on a pedestal…. at the age of 12 he would bring philosophy books for me to read and then discuss with him. He’d always thought I was above those my age in terms of intelligence. Anyways he was my first unrequited “love”. I believe the way he idealized me is a big reason I got caught up with my narc in the future.

            Sorry for that long story. It’s just a memory of me always loving men who were older.

            HG I could see you being possibly as young as your late 20s… your interests certainly do not define your age. The narc I dated was young but had a wide variety of interest as well.

            How old you are doesn’t matter…. you write so beautifully. It’s a gift. It’s an art.

          15. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you Empath007.

          16. empath007 says:

            You’re welcome HG. I appreciate arts of all kinds. Yours is a
            Special gift. And being self reflective is also another special gift.

            As for the age thing… I know everyone is just having fun with it. But men are like a fine wine… they get better with age. And I can only assume as a narcissist you feel more powerful every year that passes.

          17. kel2day says:

            Depeche Mode started in the 80’s, but they put out new albums in the 90’s and the 2000’s, and even just a couple of years ago. I listened to singers growing up too that started when I was little but were still putting out songs when I got old enough to listen. So DM in the 80’s isn’t necessarily an indicator of his age, because they were still putting out songs when he got old enough to listen.

            I don’t get the comment that he would’ve had to have started dating at age 9 then. What’s that referring to?

          18. HG Tudor says:


          19. NarcAngel says:

            I don’t get the speculation about HG’s age. What is the significance?

          20. kel2day says:

            I think it’s a natural question to wonder someone’s age when it’s their birthday

          21. Sweetest Perfection says:

            HG, we know you are a Virgo, but what is your Chinese horoscope? Hahaha he’s not gonna fall for this but I need to try.

          22. Kim e says:

            SP….LOL Good try. Chinese Horoscope….LOL

          23. K says:

            Sweetest Perfection
            Ha ha ha…he’s too smart for that but I thought the same thing.

    3. B says:

      The song is on the soundtrack of Call Me By Your Name, an awesome film.

  49. Narc noob says:

    HG, is it a common practise that your kind are more direct, succinct and to the point over written communication than verbal? 3 Ns that I have been in contact with in the past two years use words differently where face to face dialogue is concerned.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It will depend on the need for control and the opportunity for fuel.

    2. SMH says:

      Narc noob, I was just about to ask the same question! MRN was also like HG in writing – mostly succinct (often curt, actually – HG used to trigger me because of that). Face to face he talked up a storm and was quite able to converse. It was like he was two different people. I once asked him about it because to my mind people write informally the way they talk. He said he was 1) on his phone and 2) had people around him all the time (I had pictured him in a large corner office but I think he was actually mostly on a trading floor). But when he wanted to persuade me of something, he could write, so HG’s explanation makes perfect sense. Like everything else, the goal is fuel.

      HG, a separate question – had I not allowed MRN to contact me only by email/text etc (as SIPSS), what would he have done? That is, had I early on insisted on only phone calls or in-person contact, how would he have reacted? Would he just have moved on? Is the mode of communication more important than the fuel source? I think this is important for us to know.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        If you mean if you had, when the narcissist was first seducing you as a Shelf IPSS, insisted only on phone calls or in person contact, that would have been Challenge Fuel. Given that you were in seduction, the narcissist may have

        1. Broken off and dealt with other appliances,
        2. Railed against your demand, or
        3. Complied.

        Which outcomes depends on the school of narcissist, fuel levels, ease by which you can be communicated in the stated methods, the state of the fuel matrix and other factors besides. If you wish to explore this in detail, a consultation is the appropriate forum given the level of detail required.

        1. SMH says:

          Thanks, HG. He resisted and I didn’t care at the time so I let him get away with it and that set the pattern.

    3. FYC says:

      NN, Brevity and directness is employed and appreciated by empaths too. Directness due to honesty, and brevity due to respect for the reader/listener and for the purpose of clear, succinct thought expression. I could write several paragraphs on this, but I know you’ll get my point. 😉

  50. Desirée says:

    Could you give us HG-mojis? I’d like to make use of a golden poop HG-moji. People need reminding that some that shines is shit.

    1. MB says:

      The HG emoji: 👤

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Ha ha very good

        1. MB says:

          I can’t take credit for it. It was our Dear Bubbles!

      2. Bibi says:

        Love it!

        1. MB says:

          It was Bubbles that first used the HG emoji. I just couldn’t find it until now.

          1. Renarde says:

            Of course! Shes the Queen of Emojis! 🌈👾😈🤩🎫

          2. MB says:

            Of course she is! I love me some Bubbles!!! 🥰

          3. Renarde says:


            Where IS La Madame?

          4. MB says:

            Renarde, I haven’t seen Bubbles around. I haven’t been following all comments either though.

      3. Renarde says:

        That’s genious MB.

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