Trying Behaviour



You do not give up easily do you? We are pleased that this is the case. You try to resurrect what we once had. You will look to resuscitate our relationship. You want to breathe new life into you and me. You want to salvage what you can from the wreckage and build something anew. You will not let the life slip from what we have, you will not step out of the tangled and twisted remains and walk away.

No, you try. You try to make it work, you try to see what can be done, you try to sort things out. You try to make everything right again, you try to make us happy, you try to please us, how you try to please us. You try to fix us, you try to banish these demons which plague us, you try to shed light and joy. You try when everything seems lost, you try when all seems pointless and you try despite everything else suggesting that what we are is a lost cause. You try because you believe in hope.

But what is this hope that has you trying on a superhuman scale, which has you wiping away the tears, picking yourself up, dusting yourself down and standing up once more to try to do the right thing? If you were not with our kind but someone normal and the relationship was foundering would you try as you do with us?

Of course you would try and steer the good ship towards calmer waters but you would not try to the same extent as you do with us. Where two people find they no longer have anything in common, they may be content to leave matters as they are and drift along in neutrality. It is not heady and wonderful but neither is it awful. Is beige such a terrible place to be? There is security, the children have grown up and you have your separate interests.

There is no hatred, far from it, but neither is there passion any longer, but something in the middle. This is deemed as acceptable and you are happy to trundle along in this manner. You do not try to rekindle those early days of your honeymoon period. In other instances, this mediocrity is found to be stifling. If you hear another gardening anecdote or incident at the bowling club, you will go spare. You want to travel and experience new things. Your other half is more interested in the home brew and the latest episode on television.

There is no hatred, there is no passion but this time the middle is deemed suffocating and unacceptable. You do not try to rekindle what you once had but instead decide you want something else. You move on to something else, be it a single life with new pursuits or finding a new person who shares your interests. The separation is amicable, fair-minded and there is no turbulence. The relationship ran its course and you saw no reason to try to make it anything different.

Yet with us it is so different isn’t it? You try your absolute best to get things back on track, you try until you are shattered and exhausted, bewildered and confused. How can you not achieve what we once had again? Why is it so elusive? Yet you do not give up. You keep on trying. Again and again.

Such is the intoxicating power of the golden period, such is the addiction of this utterly falsified state of affairs, such is the massive attraction of that seemingly perfect love, you try your damnedest to resurrect it.

Sometimes there is a glimmer of a return or even a brief sortie to that promised land once again and you know that your repeated trying has succeeded. It never lasts. It never stays. Still, you exhibit that indefatigable spirit as you try once more, looking to rekindle that special love we once had.

You even begin to sacrifice pieces of yourself in order to try to bring it back. You try to guess what we want all the time. You walk on those eggshells in order to avoid disrupting the fragile peace. You agree to do things you would never have countenanced once upon a time but hey, it is worth trying isn’t it?

You decide to spend more time with us, sacrificing your relationships with your friends and with your family, but you have to try don’t you? You cannot be said to have not tried to make this work and if you had it once then surely you can get it again can’t you? You submit to more and more of our demands, demeaning yourself, degrading yourself and suffering our repeated denigrations but you convince yourself that this is all worth doing because you are trying to achieve a greater aim. You have hope that you will succeed and bring back that elusive golden period.

You forgo invitations to events because you know it will displease us. You do not invite people to the house to avoid causing a disruption to the evening, since we want peace and quiet. You try not to say anything when we return late from who knows where. You try to remain silent when we spend hours staring into the screen on our laptops, tapping away, our minds somewhere else. You retreat, back-off and compromise, giving away more and more of yourself and your life as you try to succeed.

Thus here is the awful warped nature of being ensnared by us. In a normal relationship you may not try to the same extent because the excitement and passion was not as it was with us. Yet, this relationship is one where trying will bring about success. Yes, you won’t establish that paradise that exists when we seduce you, but it never actually existed to begin with. It is a fiction.

However, trying to succeed with someone normal and healthy is entirely achievable. You will not, by contrast, ever succeed with us. You can try over and over and over again but for all this effort and endeavour you will not get what you want. What we once granted you will only ever be given again in small doses and then only as part of this continuing manipulation so that you remain in our grip so we can gather fuel until we throw you aside.

No matter how determined you are, no matter how great your resolve, no matter the fact that you put every breath, every ounce of effort in to trying to make things work between you and us so everything is golden, it will never ever work. It cannot because you cannot control the golden period. Only we can and we choose who is granted it and when in accordance with our need for control and fuel.

Try to understand that.

64 thoughts on “Trying Behaviour

  1. Tired says:


    Thank you!
    I know it’s not me , I’ve known that for many years. I thought it was all due to his substance abuse, and then I found out about narcissism.
    I would have preferred to think it was just substance abuse, because the things I read about narcissists chill me to the bone, and make me physically ill. I just had a light bulb moment! That must be why it upsets me so , because I’m understanding the narcissism and what he really is . His behavior although worse than in years past never upset me physically like this before. It’s like finding out you married the devil.

    Your support and input are so appreciated!
    Sorry if I’m missing others comments, I’m not sure I’m replying in the right places sometimes. 🙂

  2. Tired says:

    Who cares,

    Thank you.
    He doesn’t suspect I have any notion of leaving him. When that day comes I will be the one pulling the rug out from him.
    I don’t understand his need currently for even more control over me , especially where finances are concerned. I thought it was because he didn’t want me spending money so he could hoard more if we divorced. He never complained about my purchases before, now he watches every penny.
    Yet he has purchased some things for the house recently at my request. Why would he bother if he knows he’s leaving?? Defies logic. Has me so confused.
    Normally I wouldn’t ask him, if purchase myself. He’s making me feel as though I must ask permission now to avoid him raging about it later.
    This is fucking bullshit. I don’t deserve this crap.
    I tell no one about anything, only my most trusted family members and 2 very close friends.
    Your support and advice are appreciated very much. I’d be completely lost without this forum.

    1. WhoCares says:


      I’m glad he has no idea that you are considering leaving.

      “I don’t understand his need currently for even more control over me , especially where finances are concerned.”

      I know of more than one entanglement where the finances where so severely controlled (or depleted) that it made escape for the victim extremely difficult. Also, I can think of many instances where the car is poor repair…or the second car gets sold etc…just when the victim might need it most to escape. This is a common theme I have noticed.
      The victim feels more trapped or can’t work up the energy to devise a way around the barrier (lack of funds or vehicle to escape.)

    2. WhoCares says:


      I also do not know where I would have been, at times, without this site and forum.

      There are some lovely, supportive people here.

  3. Tired says:


    “the substance abuse acts as a fuel substitute and probably exacerbates things.”

    That makes so much sense! I never looked at it that way. In the past I thought the increase in substance abuse caused all the bizarre behavior. I still think the substance abuse is partially to blame. His entire personality changes.

    I still don’t think he would willingly throw away his professional career for her, or anyone else. His career means everything to him, it always came first. I do believe that he may be deluded enough to think that this DLS would be accepted in his professional and private life. Maybe not so much his private life because of the psycho things this DLS has done in the past that my family is aware of . She’s absolute pond scum.
    I don’t know how he thinks that wouldn’t extend to his professional life , of course it will.
    He has for the past year or two slowly become withdrawn emotionally. Just flat . Even with the children. I chalked it up to his unhappiness about getting older and the increase in substance abuse, as well as perhaps realising that he isn’t as accomplished in his career as much as he would have liked to be. I also wasn’t feeding his ego much during this time.

    I have told him in the past that he has a family that loves him, a nice home , etc – , things that many people don’t have, and that we are blessed. It never seems good enough for him.
    He’s ridiculously jealous of things other people have , their accomplishments etc – , including his own children. Just green with envy.
    God forbid someone should pay me a compliment about anything ( I don’t feel comfortable receiving compliments, he knows that) , he ignores or brushes them off. He’s too busy smearing me with his lies behind my back, and the compliments don’t align with his smears.
    I stroked his ego for years , until he sucked me dry . Yet he’s accused me of being a taker , not a giver. What a joke!

    The past months he has turned me into a bundle of nerves with his unpredictable behavior. I feel a little better now. One minute I’m fine, the next a anxiety ridden mess. I try my best not to let him see his behavior is upsetting me. I see him studying my reactions. The look in his eyes sometimes is chilling.

    I read another poster wrote something here about being jealous of the IPPS . Ha ! Darling, there’s nothing to be jealous about! She/they have no idea the hell the IPPS is put though. It’s not a position they’d ever want. Be careful what you wish for.

    1. WhoCares says:


      “That makes so much sense! I never looked at it that way. In the past I thought the increase in substance abuse caused all the bizarre behavior. I still think the substance abuse is partially to blame. His entire personality changes.”

      My ex doesn’t have substance abuse issues. However, my mother (I only discovered she is a narcissist after finding HG’s work) does. For years, I attributed one particular incident – where she just flipped out and became physically threatening – to her drinking, but I now recognize that it was an ignition of heated fury. I didn’t recognize her; I couldn’t believe it was my mother. Her primary sources have escaped her many times and she continues to struggle with fuel acquisition and abuses prescription drugs and alcohol as a substitute.

      Even though you haven’t escaped, your fuel becomes stale to the narcissist and he has to provoke negative fuel because it is more potent. The book, Fuel, explains this.

      “I still don’t think he would willingly throw away his professional career for her, or anyone else. His career means everything to him, it always came first. I do believe that he may be deluded enough to think that this DLS would be accepted in his professional and private life.”

      His career and colleagues are part of his fuel matrix, so you are right that he wouldn’t intentionally throw that away. But he likely doesn’t care one iota if she is accepted. He can do what he wants (sense of entitlement) and if his DLS provokes an response in people – all the better. It clearly provokes a response in you (as you keep mentioning her): job done – from his perspective.

      “Yet he’s accused me of being a taker , not a giver.” Projection! As you rightly guessed.

      “I try my best not to let him see his behavior is upsetting me. I see him studying my reactions.”

      Mine did this too. Especially towards the end when he noted a shift in me. “You don’t cry anymore”, he once said.

      As a former IPPS, I agree with you. “IPPS” is not an enviable position.

      1. Tired says:


        Thank you for sharing that.
        As for the DLS , I keep mentioning her here , but he has no idea I know about her. The 2 of them would absolutely shit themselves if they knew I know .

        1. Kim e says:

          You keep mentioning the DLS. How many other IPSS’s do you think he has? Could be 1. Could be 5. What is your estimate?

          1. Tired says:


            Since he has ghosted the DLS for several weeks now since covid hit, I suspect he may have 1 more . He may just be trolling sluts on the www and not talking to anyone. I’m uncertain, but he’s on his phone at odd hours .

          2. Kim e says:

            Good Morning. Hope you are having a better day today.
            Just remember your day will come. It will be a day of clarity where you will only be concerned with yourself and your children. The N and DLS and all the others won’t matter. But in the meantime please be careful.
            Welcome to the family. I hope we help you find that peace that you so deserve

        2. WhoCares says:


          Oh, I didn’t know that he doesn’t know you’re aware of the DLS. However, it still seems that she provokes a response in people; apparently one of distaste.
          If his relationship with her provokes an emotional reaction in people – it is still a reaction, positive or negative. Still amounts to attention for the narc. The only thing they truly can’t stand is being ignored. (That and losing control.)

          1. Tired says:


            Then he’ll have plenty of fuel when the shit hits the fan here, he’ll spend the rest of his days on this earth trying to put his shattered bits back together.

          2. WhoCares says:


            “…when the shit hits the fan here,…,”

            Do you intend to confront him?

        3. lisk says:

          Absolutely keep it to yourself, Tired.

          What are your plans for going No Contact?

          1. Tired says:


            Since we live together there are no immediate plans for no contact.
            I’m biding my time until I get my proverbial ducks in a row.

          2. lisk says:

            Understandable and smart!

    2. theletterafterj says:

      I grew up with drug addicts and alcoholics and I attributed (blame shifted) their crazy making behaviour to substance abuse, however, when I came here, I found out that alcohol and drugs act as a fuel substitute. This article explains it very well.

      The facade is very important to the Midranger, however, it can be broken to fulfill the Prime Aims, if the narcissism decrees it. The False Self (narcissist) is driving the car, the true self (the Creature) is but a passenger who has no control. It is my understanding that the DLS is unlikely to be promoted to IPPS.

    3. theletterafterj says:


      Part: 2

      Narcissists don’t “do happy” like us, when they appear to be “happy”, that is the manifestation of power (control) and fuel. The Misery, that you see, is either from a lack of control in the moment or a pity play (benign control). Check out these articles.

      The compliments are a threat to his control (challenge fuel) and ignoring (silent treatment), brushing them off (invalidation) and the smearing is being done to assert control over you and possibly the individual who complimented you. Even though you stroked his ego for years, your fuel is stale (that is a criticism) so you must be punished/devalued.

      This is projection, which incorporates blame shifting, and it’s gas lighting: “he’s accused me of being a taker , not a giver.”

      This link may help you understand the last couple of months. I was IPPS, too, and I don’t wish that Hell on anyone. Take your time reading; it’s very overwhelming when you are in devaluation.

    4. theletterafterj says:

      Re: last the past months, this article may be better than I Can’t Do This Anymore.

      1. Tired says:

        Thank you. Makes me sick.
        This one was right before the one you posted, made me sicker. Accurate.

        1. K says:

          My pleasure Tired
          You Wait Until Later Tonight is horrific!

        2. lisk says:

          Tired, here’s to you getting so sick that you GOSO.

          1. Tired says:


            Thank you, I second that thought!

  4. Gina says:

    This is why most people can NOT understand what has happened in the relationship with a narcissist. They think of it in terms of how they understand “normal relationships.” Even people on my side of things. I thought I could stay if it was just “beige.” I’m in my 50s now and we have kids together and many other family members who were affected by my leaving. I wasn’t even attempting to get back the golden period, that had been gone for YEARS. But I couldn’t stay because you will never get the reciprocation of the narcissist as you would a “normal.” In the last few years it got so bad I just wished for a parallel existence/for peace, it would have been much better. To make things worse the MMR represents it as a normal marriage with normal problems, which the partner (me) would just not work on. His therapist was manipulated to see it this way as well. The choices are stay and go crazy (or become sick or die), or leave and lose many people whom you thought loved you. I picked the second, but it hasn’t been easy.

    1. Narc noob says:

      Good job Gina, looking after yourself is never easy when surrounded by people who don’t understand.

    2. K says:

      You chose wisely! He manipulated the therapist to assert control over you (indirectly).

  5. Tired says:

    Normal people realise that “ the Golden period “ never lasts . Over the years in a marriage love changes , you mature, grow and settle in. You should know your spouse has your back. There is a mutual respect. You raise your children and look forward to retirement, and all it brings, grandchildren, travel, etc- . IF YOU’RE IN A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP.
    I’m not looking for a return of a golden period, just some peace and happiness, just being able to get excited about the future, not dread it because you don’t know what is round the corner.
    He can kiss my arse if he thinks I would ever beg him for a return to a golden period, that’s not me and he knows it . If he’s bored , unhappy, and deprived of his precious fuel , there’s a bus every half hour that will take him to his DLS house, use it! I’ve told him that numerous times , but he’s still here and at the same time telling his DLS that I’m the one hanging on to his pant leg, what a liar .
    If he thought the DLS was so wonderful, he would have been gone long ago , wouldn’t he ?
    I get why I stayed all these years, decades long history, children etc – , but I’ll never understand why a DLS would put up with the BS for a extended period of time, if I had to listen to the plethora excuses, I’d dump him in under a year.

    1. Kim e says:

      Tired, Hello. The DLS is in the same boat as you are….believe it or not. It is called addiction. And the more you argue with him, the more fuel you give him and he stays. Go neutral on him and see whats.

      1. Tired says:

        No , this particular DLS is a cunt . I’m not going to give specifics, but she has been instructing him horrible things to do to me at home to intentionally torment me, both physically, emotionally, and financially. She’s a sicko, psycho stalker.

        I have tried the neutral thing with him in the past, as well as ST . When I do that most times it makes him stop his crazy behaviors. He has a substance abuse problem on top of it all. The older he gets , the worse he gets . I would have years of respite in between the awful behaviors, but this year has been worse than it’s ever been, as has his substance abuse problem. After the last time he got like this, I thought it would be the LAST, and he would soften with age, how wrong I was ! He’ll never change.
        I understand the whole prime aims thing , but I don’t get why he rages at me , acts like he hates me and then STILL stays . I think he’s afraid to leave and start over at his age too, and he knows damn well our children will disown him if he leaves, especially for this particular Whore. He has nobody else, and not a single friend, never did as long as I’ve known him. Weirdo.
        I feel a *tiny* bit guilty about leaving him because I know ( and so does he ) I’m the only person in the world that will take care of him WHEN he gets ill, and he will, sooner rather than later with the substance abuse. If I’m not around he’ll wind up in a nursing home. On the other hand I feel, why should I give a shit ? He wouldn’t care if I got sick, no way I could count on him to care for me. He has ZERO empathy. He’s already showing signs of declining health.
        I’m getting better at reducing ET. I need to get to the point where I feel indifference where he’s concerned.
        I am lucky in the respect I have a large extended family who love and support me , and friends who care about me. They’ve been encouraging me to get rid of him, including our children.
        He has no idea I’ve told everyone what’s been happening , I had to, I needed the emotional support, he’s made me physically ill from all the raging and mind fuckery the past several months.
        This is the most shockingly brutal treatment he’s doled out in 30 years, I think I still care for him, but I will NEVER trust him again after this , and I don’t think I’m in love with him anymore. Today I hate his lying, cheating, controlling, manipulative guts .
        Sorry for the extended rant , but it feels good to get it off my chest in a place where others understand narcissistic abuse.

        1. Kim e says:

          Rant away. That is what this place is for.
          And to quote our feraless leader, all of it is tied back to your ET and addiction to him. I am truly not making light of the situation as it truly does suck but until you start looking at it from his perscective and lower your ET it will remain as is. He has no reason all for it to. You are a geyser of fuel. Everything you do, say, your facial expressions give him fuel.
          And, not defender her at all, but you (unless you have witnessed her telling him these things) really have no idea what she is telling him. I would imagine that if he has a substance abuse problem, so does she.
          And to look at it from that perspective, you are all addicts….just different drugs.

          Dont know if you have spoken to HG, but if you have not, please do.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            HG approves.

          2. Tired says:

            Kim ,
            I know for certain that the DLS has done the things I mentioned. I wouldn’t have leveled the accusation if I wasn’t certain.
            The two of them think they’re flying incognito, they have no idea I know all about it . I suspected someone was in the wings when the behavior changed again, it’s his MO, I was right.

          3. Kim e says:

            I know it is frustrating and it hurts. But you are the only one that can change it for the better for you.
            There will always be another, if not 2 or 3, waiting in the wings.
            Time to stop driving yourself crazy with the whys, who’s, when’s, how comes, and seek help. This is not something you can conquer on your own.
            You have given all to him. Now start giving to you 💯

        2. WhoCares says:


          I am sorry you find yourself in your particular circumstance; you deserve better.

          “I understand the whole prime aims thing , but I don’t get why he rages at me , acts like he hates me and then STILL stays”

          He is getting his prime aims met – and then some. He has you to rant at, the children to triangulate with and the DLS. Why would change anything? He is pretty well set up.

          “I need to get to the point where I feel indifference where he’s concerned.”

          You will never find a point of indifference while still in relationship with the narcissist.

          1. WhoCares says:

            Why would *he change anything?

          2. Tired says:

            Who cares,

            When he trots around like he hates being here , constantly threatening leaving, ( when I tell him go ahead, leave , he refuses) when I know he has a DLS he’s professing his undying love and devotion to , it doesn’t make sense to me why he stays .
            His treatment of me has been so shockingly brutal that I thought the final discard was imminent. I was so shocked by his initial raging at me that I backed down ( exactly what he wanted) , I don’t back down now, I either rage back at him , ignore him and walk away, or sometimes just laugh, depending on what he’s raging about.
            If he’s trying to confuse me , it’s working. Driving me round the bend. Never know when it’s coming, one second he’s fine , next he’s exploding over nothing. Part narc behavior part substance abuse behavior??
            He has become extremely controlling over money, and anything financially, another reason I thought he’s planning to leave, that coupled with the instructions his DLS gave him had me panicked.
            Is he plotting/planning his escape from me ? I don’t know what the hell hes doing .
            What’s there to plot ? In a divorce it’s cut and dry , he tries to make me think I’ll be penniless, but I don’t let him get away with it , I remind him I WILL get half of everything. That really ticks him off. I may well be worse off financially, but so will he . Is money his motivation for staying? I don’t know.
            Trying to understand the behaviors, motivations, etc – . The cadres, schools, etc- . My head spins .
            I know one thing, if we divorce and I bring forth everything I know about all the sleazy things he’s done, his reputation is finished. He’ll never recover from that.

          3. WhoCares says:


            When my narcissist started raging at me, I left and secured myself and my son in a safe place and then I shut him out of our lives.

            The heightened control of finances could be because he senses that you are on to him and it makes it more difficult for you to consider leaving.

            The real question could be: what is *your* motivation for staying?

          4. Tired says:

            Who cares ,
            You can tell he’s miserable. He’s always miserable. I think he’s had underlying depression for years. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him express true joy and happiness in 30 years. He can pretend, but it’s not genuine. He’s not capable of empathy.
            So, the question remains, if he’s so fucking miserable with me and he thinks his DLS is the solution why the fuck is he still here ?
            How am I meeting his prime aims if he’s miserable being here ? I don’t get it.

          5. WhoCares says:


            “So, the question remains, if he’s so fucking miserable with me and he thinks his DLS is the solution why the fuck is he still here ?”

            You are both the solution.
            Have you read Fuel?
            (Sorry if it’s already been recommended to you.)

          6. Tired says:

            At this point, today, because he makes me sick, I feel my only motivation for staying at this moment is the trauma I know divorce will bring, and finances. I was a stay at home Mother to our five children all these years. I haven’t a penny of my own saved. I trusted the bastard with our finances.
            I haven’t read fuel yet, I have a list of books I want to order. In the future I want to do a phone consult with HG too.

          7. WhoCares says:


            I recognize how daunting it is to consider leaving when there are children involved and zero finances. I only had one child with my ex and had no funds to work with (I was in the hole actually as a result of my relationship with him.) I can understand how the *unknown* trauma outside the relationship looks scarier than the current trauma happening within the relationship. But the difference is that the trauma happening within the relationship will never see an end.

            I would highly recommend doing a Narc Detector on him and an audio consultation with HG.

          8. Mercy says:


            The others (Kim e, WhoCares and K) have given great advice. All I can say in addition is to ask yourself why you are here. What do you want the end result to be? The only thing that you know for certain right now is that he will not change. There is no hope for that. YOU have to change. Your happiness is your decision. Stay here, keep talking, ranting, raving, and crying to us. We hear you and we understand when he will not. Keep reading and reading and reading. Consult with HG if you can. Let all those light bulbs click on. Slowly but surely you will gain the knowledge that you need to free yourself from this abusive addiction.

            When I left my children’s Narcdad, what got me through the scary stuff was I kept telling myself “I can do bad on my own”. Basically I realized leaving couldn’t be any worse than staying so why not give it a try. You’ll get there but you have to do the work. The problem (the narc) won’t go away on his own.

          9. theletterafterj says:

            Thank you Mercy!
            You are right; read and then read some more.

        3. K says:

          Kim e is right; rant away! Let it all out. I wouldn’t be surprised if the DLS is a narcissist.

          Q. So, the question remains, if he’s so fucking miserable with me and he thinks his DLS is the solution why the fuck is he still here ?

          A. He is still there because there hasn’t been a disengagement trigger.

          Q. How am I meeting his prime aims if he’s miserable being here ? I don’t get it.

          A. HG Tudor says:
          February 14, 2020 at 09:38
          1. The comment could be a lie to a third party appliance and has no basis whatsoever.
          2. Being miserable lately could be a Pity Play in itself.
          3. Being miserable lately could be a Pity Play and Provocation towards the IPPS by suggesting she has caused his apparent state of misery.

          1. WhoCares says:

            Bless your magical fingertips for finding all those articles for Tired.

            Damn, you’re good K.

          2. theletterafterj says:

            Thank you WhoCares!!!
            Her situation is dire and she needs help and answers real fast. I don’t want her to suffer any more than necessary and a consult with HG would do wonders for her.

          3. WhoCares says:

            “Her situation is dire and she needs help and answers real fast.”
            Honestly, I can’t imagine being in such a situation with 5 children. I grasp why “Tired” is so named.
            My situation (at the end of the formal relationship) was dire. I am happy to have found HG’s work when I did but sooner would have be welcome as well.
            At least Tired has access to information that will help her immediately.

          4. theletterafterj says:

            Her name is apt; I was tired of all the bullshit, too, and having 5 children makes it seem insurmountable.

            When I think of the Hell we have all been through, sooner would have been a blessing for all of us and I am happy that Tired has found her way here. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

          5. Violetta says:

            Epistles of HG according to K. She can tell you Chapter and Verse.
            Happy Easter, Passover, Eid al-Fitr (in advance), Beltane (also in advance) or whatever you celebrate, to all Tudorites.

            To HG, who has no theological inclinations: be glad that quarantine means you have an excuse not to have dinner with Matrinarc. (You could even thank God for that, if you believed in Him.)

          6. HG Tudor says:

            I will just thank myself, it is the same thing.

          7. theletterafterj says:

            Thank you Violetta
            Hahahahaha…and Happy Easter!

          8. Violetta says:


            Wait, weren’t you supposed to be the Devil?

        4. K says:

          I don’t want to overwhelm you, so, please, take your time reading the articles and you can always pull them up by using the search bar, just type: divorce into the search function.

          1. Narc noob says:

            Thanks K. That would/has been very helpful 👍

          2. theletterafterj says:

            My pleasure Narc noob!
            When I was in sustained devaluation as an IPPS, being here would have made a significant impact on the outcome.

          3. Tired says:

            K, ( and everyone else who commented)

            Thank you so much for all the articles you pulled up! Some I’ve read before, but I’ve read them again. I couldn’t find the part 3 somatic mid ranger article, maybe you know where it is?
            My narc seems to fit both somatic and cerebral, crossing back and forth. I actually see different things about him from all the types but upper mid range seems to fit him best. Will be interesting to see what HG tells me he is after a consult.
            I tend to have to take short breaks from reading here , it all hits so close to home, and the revelations in HG’s writings often make me physically ill. It’s as though HG has been in my home for the last 30 years observing everything.
            I’ve never seen narcissism described so in-depth anywhere else.
            I know now he’ll never change. I suppose I am mourning the death of the fairytale ending I thought I’d have.
            I have never had my chain jerked by someone like this in my life, and from someone who is supposed to love, honor, and cherish me, what a joke!
            In one of the articles HG said that sometimes devaluation can go on forever in a long term marriage ( paraphrasing) , that devaluation is absolute, but even so final discard isn’t.
            I recognize now that he has been devaluing me on and off all these years. I’m *trying* to figure out if he is planning to completely discard me. It’s the constant worry over that that’s killing me. I am not prepared emotionally or financially. He has pulled the rug out from under me it came on so suddenly with the raging. I can’t decipher how much is due to the narcissism, and how much due to the increased substance abuse, but they have always gone hand in hand , just never as bad as this before.
            One of you suggested that the DLS is a narcissist, I thought the same myself. She plays games right back with him , push – pull . It’s comical. They behave like 2 teenagers instead of 2 senior citizens. The luvy dovey gushing, etc- I am her polar opposite, I’m grace kelly , and she’s Amy winehouse with a weight problem ( my apologies to Amy , I love her) . Class vs Trash. But it’s funny, he screws around with the trashy ones , but he needed the classy one to complete his facade for his career. That’s why it boggles my mind. He would be a laughing stock if he was seen with her on his arm. The people I have shown her photo to , their initial reaction has been, “ my God, he’s lost his mind”
            He spent a lifetime working on his professional reputation, you mean to tell me he’s willing to throw it away, for THAT?! Logic tells me no way , but he’s been behaving so insane I don’t know.
            Those close to me are afraid he might snap and hurt me if he finds out I know everything. I could ruin him with all the information I’ve gathered. But he’s willing to ruin himself with her ??
            When I am ready to let go I will have to reveal what I know with others present, or through a attorney, I’m too worried about him snapping if I’m alone with him.
            Like the rest of the world, he’s working from home due to covid, I cannot wait until he goes back to work. 24/7 , no reprieve from him. He seems to be enjoying staying home, go figure! That’s his new excuse to his DLS for not contacting her. BS ! There’s a thousand ways he could if he wanted to. She has to know that. I don’t have him chained up ffs !
            See what I mean? It’s maddening.

            I hope all of you had a peaceful Easter.

          4. theletterafterj says:

            My pleasure Tired
            Here are 3 links re: midrangers, if the correct one isn’t there, please, let me know and I will find it for you.


          5. theletterafterj says:

            This may be the article re: devaluation.


            These comments may be helpful, as well.

            njfilly says:
            January 30, 2020 at 17:57
            The fact that some narcissists stay married for life is something that I don’t understand. That sometimes there is no discard.

            HG Tudor says:
            January 30, 2020 at 18:04
            1. The victim does not escape.
            2. There is no disengagement trigger by the narcissist.
            3. Devaluation will occur on and off throughout.

            njfilly says:
            January 30, 2020 at 19:34
            Well, now that I think of it Mr. HG Tudor’s parents stayed married. My parents are still married, although I believe them both to be narcissists. I was under the impression that disengagement was inevitable.

            HG Tudor says:
            January 30, 2020 at 19:36
            No, devaluation is.


          6. theletterafterj says:

            My pleasure Tired
            Take your time reading; it’s a lot to absorb. Many people think HG has been in their home/work observing them because his articles and answers are so accurate that it is uncanny. How could HG possibly know so much about me AND my husband/wife/lover/parent? How is that possible?

            HG’s in-depth work is flawless and we will never find anything like it anywhere else in the world, ever.

            You are in mourning and the loss of what you thought you had is profound, your dreams and hopes have been shattered. It’s unimaginable and devastating and I am truly sorry that you are going through this.

            If you are worried about discard/disengagement, then I strongly recommend a consult with HG because that will clear up a lot of questions and concerns. Your husband’s behavior is all due to his narcissism; the substance abuse acts as a fuel substitute and probably exacerbates things.

            The adolescent/teenage behavior that you are witnessing is a Red Flag re: the DLS. The wife and children play a significant role in the facade and, although the DLS and may be trashy, overweight and not very attractive, her luvy dovey gushy attention is all fresh and potent fuel for him.

            From our POV he may seem to be acting insane, however, he will throw away his professional reputation for the DLS to fulfill the Prime Aims, if necessary, because, from his POV, that would be the correct course of action. We operate in very different realities. He wouldn’t see it as ruining himself and it’s all your fault anyway for ruining the marriage (blame shift). It is NOT your fault at all!

            Do not reveal anything to anyone. Speak to HG first and he will get you through this.

            Thank you, my Easter was very enjoyable.

          7. theletterafterj says:

            This comment may shed some light on your husband’s behaviour during lockdown.

            HG Tudor says:
            March 26, 2020 at 09:08
            During the lockdown most narcissists will be focussed on what is in front of them and the shelf IPSS/DLS will not figure in the mind that much of the narcissist. Many shelf appliances of an intimate nature make the mistake of thinking they are often in the mind of the narcissist. They are not. When there is a Hoover Trigger, this MIGHT (if the HEC are met) cause the narcissist to hoover the IPSS to ascertain (unconsciously) that control is being maintained, however there are a number of factors which govern the reaction of the narcissist. The narcissist is not sat there thinking “All is okay with the IPSS because she cannot go anywhere” so I have control.


          8. Kim e says:

            Step by step. Day by day.
            Just realize it is not you. Keep reading and venting here until such time as you can get to speak to HG.

          9. WhoCares says:


            ” He has pulled the rug out from under me it came on so suddenly with the raging. I can’t decipher how much is due to the narcissism, and how much due to the increased substance abuse”

            My ex was never physically violent towards me but at the end he exhibited raging outbursts. At the time I was no longer functioning as the ideal appliance and we were isolated. I think he was experiencing chronic fuel issues and feeling as though he was losing control over me.
            Perhaps yours is acting out to try to regain control over you since you are starting to see through his manipulations.

            “Those close to me are afraid he might snap and hurt me if he finds out I know everything.”

            For yours and your children’s safety do not let on that you may be considering leaving.

            I hope you do the NDC to find out what school your husband is. It may clear up some confusion about what to expect from him.

            Take care Tired 💙

          10. theletterafterj says:

            Correct; Tired shouldn’t tell a soul about anything. It’s too dangerous.

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