Shoot You Down


A plaintive wail which I often hear is along the lines of,

“Why do you always have to shoot me down? I give you everything you could ever want. Why can’t you just be happy with that?”

As usual you delude yourself with such a statement. You do not give me everything I could ever want. You think that you do, but that is the self-centredness that you often exhibit creeping in once again. You certainly care, I will grant you that, but you make the mistake of assuming what you do is what we want. What we want is fuel. I know what comes next.

“I always told you how much I loved you, I admired and complimented you often and frequently. How much more could I make you feel good about yourself?”

Therein lies the problem. No matter how good your intentions and how frequent your worship of me, my kind and me will always grow tired of it. We have heard your kind words and seen your appreciative gestures too many times and it, well, it just does not do it for us anymore. I am sure that you emotionally in touch people would be the first to complain if a long established partner engages in the same routine in the bedroom. It does not hit the spot anymore does it? Well, it is just the same for us. You may ultimately accept that things cool somewhat in the bedroom and I know from what I have seen and heard that you trade this passion off (although not always, there are some sexual thrill seekers amongst your kind) for other qualities that you find attractive – humour, companionship, security, warmth, good parental skills, intelligence and such like. There is no hope for any such trade with us. We only want one thing from our relationship. Fuel. We do not care (ultimately) how good-looking you are, how much of a whore you are between the sheets, how wonderful a mother you may be, what a raconteur you are or how much you earn. We will never accept those things or anything else as a substitute for fuel. True enough, the more aged of our kind sometimes accept these things when their need for fuel diminishes but that need never goes away. They may decide to accept these attributes alongside largely positive fuel, but they will still need to stir things up from time to time.

That is not going to happen with me. I am at the peak of my powers and therefore my need for fuel remains substantial. There can be no substitute for it at all and nor can there be any co-existence between the provision of fuel and other attributes. It is fuel or nothing. In order to achieve this I have to shoot you down because once that is done you start to flow with the potent negative fuel and my cravings start to be addressed. You can beg and plead with me, you can point out how you will always only ever have eyes for me, you can express your love, desire, adoration and admiration on an hourly basis but there comes a point when it just does not have that sweetness anymore. It is then that I pull the handgun from my jacket, attach the silencer and fire several vitriolic bullets into you. Your pain from these wounding bullets gives me the fuel that I need and therefore your shooting is necessary. Moreover, it is your punishment for letting me down. You really ought to be capable of pleasing me the whole time but so far, all that I have chosen have failed. That is why I now expect you to fail and have that gun to hand at all times.

When I shoot you down, I become more powerful as the fuel flows from you. Moreover, it is easy to get someone to admire and adore. Those reactions come naturally to your kind. It is far harder to extract tears, anger, frustration and regret from the empath. Managing to do so imbues your emotional reaction with greater potency, your fuel becomes supercharged and this is what we want. We cannot shoot you down from the beginning, we need you stood on a pedestal first, after all, you present as such an inviting target then and your toppling as the bullets slam into you becomes all the more satisfying.

I sense your dismay as you read this. You had hoped that by keeping me sweet and onside through a dazzling and tireless display of love, affection and admiration you had hoped to avoid such an attack. Your concerns should not be absolute. There is an upside you know. Firstly, when we find someone else after we have shot you down, keep in mind they will eventually be riddled with bullet holes no matter how happy we both appear at first. It is coming to them as it came to you. I am sure that makes you feel a little better doesn’t it? Secondly, there is a huge saving grace.

We never shoot you dead.

We need you alive so we can raise you up again as we re-load.



  1. Clarece,

    I cannot find the Reply Box to comment about your thoughts on meeting HG.

    I just wanted to say, “Oh, that’s cool.”

  2. Note: You can’t diagnose ASPD until 18 even though it could be pretty damn evident the individual is a budding sociopath or psychopath.

    Research talks about a trajectory….

    Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)–> Conduct Disorder (CD) –> Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) – and if you are extra special you are a psychopath lol so you get the psychopaths specifier.

    Not all people who have ODD progress to CD and not all people with CD progress to ASPD.

    So like…if the Conduct Disorder person has an early onset (which is before the age of 10) and has Callous and Unemotional Traits – those are the people you typically see progressing to Antisocial Personality Disorder.

  3. Just to clarify….yes, sociopathy and psychopathy are different even though people have a tendency to use them interchangeably.

    There is no diagnosis in the DSM for psychopathy.

    The DSM only has Antisocial Personality Disorder and there is a psychopathy SPECIFIER.

    HG is a narcissistic psychopath. There are different flavors of psychopaths. He clearly fits the criteria for ASPD and is psychopathic.

    Psychopaths are wired differently and there is an affective component missing. I could go into the research and neurobiology and all the differences between sociopathy and psychopathy but it would take a long time lol so unless asked I’m sticking to my short response.

    1. Just so that I do not get into trouble for my last comment, I just wanted to add that it is totally fine about the wiring issue because I think I was born with a few missing components, myself! So, I did not mean anything negative about you, HG! I mean…

      I mean, look how helpful you are to us all! In a sense, if you were not born with your mixed up wiring, then you would not be helping so many to learn about Narcissism! So, ya. That is great!

  4. Kathy,

    It sounds like you were with a narcissistic psychopath. What did you find out about the girl or girls pictures, diary entries…..and all that stuff in the box?

    Are they alive? Are they missing people?

    How did you meet this person? What does he do for a living? My mind is blown right now. I have so many questions. I’m about to read your posts more carefully now – I’ve been multitasking.

      1. Since you are “Emotion Detective”, you definitely should be wearing a gas mask due to all those toxic fumes escaping from all the B.S. that’s inside of you.

    1. Agreed, some definitely pack more of a punch than others, though lately there have been a number of brutal ones.

    2. Evoking Dahlias, this means that you have absolutely no nausea from reading any of this, whatsoever… eh, ED?

    1. Ha!

      I could never really care about such a thing myself. I consider myself a sub, just can’t really get all disappointed over a guy who doesn’t tell me something’s happening anyway. It’s the narc’s delusion that they’re the only hot mess on earth, not mine.

      1. Nunya,

        I keep thinking about that rubber doll called Stretch Armstrong. My nephew had one. You can stretch the arms and legs clear across the room, and it will still return to normal. It’s like a Tug-a-War toy, too. I was thinking of Stretch HG Tudor in a suit and tie, with patent leather shoes, and dress socks.

        Or, HG Paper Dolls! There would be many outfits in which to suit him, different shoes, various ties, and a multitude of masks, most especially.

        Or, a jigsaw puzzle that is impossible to put together, or one that is in the shape of a triangle.

        I mean no harm, HG, or anyone. I am simply playing and using my imagination. Please, take no offense.

        I am not sure what is okay, and what is not okay. I am socially inept. But, I like to share my ideas and thoughts. But, no harm intended.

      2. My point stands, bears the intended meaning to me, is not meant to insult anyone and belongs to myself. My general (most often, though including many exceptions) approach to men is as I stated, probably developed out of perceived necessity- so after becoming attached I care a great deal, prior to that…not so much. In other words I’m introverted in that way, I don’t pursue engagement beyond the initial effort. I certainly am not claiming invincibility, and I’ve indeed cried over mild slights from various personas in my lifetime, both male and female. Not sure why it requires nuanicing, it wasn’t that deep of a remark and I don’t frequently express a lack of humility, quite the opposite.
        I already explained in comments below that I think sexual attraction for any particular reason is normal and an odd thing to abuse, sort of like believing owning air makes one “popular”. I am also harboring some anger at narcissists, not hg, who i’ve no idea about. I don’t say attention and connection never means anything, it can mean a lot or I wouldn’t be here.
        I can view a person sexually without requiring a response. I only say so because it bothers me when people feel pain over things like that. I lean toward “let it go” where I can. Unless I’m about to get my period.

      3. Oh god, dhq came into my email. Shut my face, was about the jigsaw puzzle. Was genuinely confused.

    2. Showed as response to my particular comment and I should know better than not to check.
      So nika, yeah social skills, this may explain my introversion.
      Anyway, was explaining my bent toward mediating and sometimes altruism I guess.
      Unless I’m about to get my period. Then it’s crying, anxiety or unadulterated rage.
      Not that anyone asked.

      : P

      1. It would be scary to see a Sociopath or Psychopath have PMS or PMDD. They would probably just go around eating people alive!

  5. Tigerchelle78

    It was a comment that was misleading, it also shows how one can twist truth. Seeing right from wrong is easy, discerning right from almost right can be tricky. Once emotion is triggered one can over look and miss seeing an “almost right” and see it as a right completely missing the part that actually made it into a lie.

    You stated
    “He probably had no thought at all to it.
He does not have feelings like ours.
But like I said, if there was any kind of worry, you can be sure HG would have taken care of it.
He is the teacher is he not?”

    I will repeat myself, the teacher is not here to tell one what to think, yet to teach one how to think in these situations.

    Henceforth why comments come through, only excessive ad hominem comments do not.

  6. Twilight,

    Thank you for helping me to understand the difference between Codependents and SE.

    I wonder, then, the reason why I’ve been ensnared by so many.

    I wonder about the Codependent who also happens to have BPD thrown into the mix. I would gather there to be a challenge, there, unlike a normal Codependent.

    I hope you receive this reply as this was the only place I could comment; maybe something to do with my application of WP.

    Thank you for your previous response.

    1. Nika-Survival

      I don’t know. They are on a spectrum just like all of us.

      I believe one needs to figure out what they want. If you want love, then you must love yourself till your cup runs over then you have more then enough for not just yourself yet another. Expecting it from another will never bring the love you desire, it will only keep your cup empty.

      I do hope you find your peace.

  7. Tigerchelle,

    “Do you know, I don’t think anyone has ever asked me that in here.”

    I think people would do this more often, if not for the time it takes to attend to all the people here and all of their comments.
    My head just spins going through all the comments. It takes me a long time to read (also because my English is poor, or there is a difference in expression because of different countries/cultures.
    I often feel bad for the people I do not address or personal stories I can’t recall because my memory, like yours,is damaged due to PTSS.
    Most people mean well and do care xx

  8. Hi Tiger! I’m glad to see you comment again. Is that picture you? Wow, you are a very pretty woman. I had a picture of a brunette in my mind :)
    I was worried about you, but I understand you needed time. It’s good to see you. Have you talked to someone or did you perhaps lock yourself in your room?

    I was doing quite well thank you Tigerchelle, there are new worries on my mind that involve my eldest son. He is not doing well and I have no idea how I can help him, because he refuses everything I suggest.
    He is game-addicted, lives in his bedroom, doesn’t get out (accept for a drink with friends once a week or once every two weeks). He has not finished any of the 3 studies he started. He has no job either. There is no initiative whatsoever. He will not listen. I’m in a split, should I just leave him alone and let him figure it all out himself of should I ‘force’ help on him (if that is possible at all), like a therapist or social worker?
    I am so scared he is like his dad, meaning a narc. He starts blaming me, as he probably needs a scapegoat, but his accusations my way (involving his lack of interest in studies) do not make sense.

    Unbelievable :). While I’m writing this my son just came out of his room, telling me he has a job interview in a few days. OMG, he looked happy, telling me this. I applied for this job for him yesterday and told him about it. It’s a low paid job at a fastfood store close by, but at least it will get him out of his room. He did not respond either angry or happy that I did, as if he didn’t care.
    As a mother you always have doubts wether you do the right thing. Are your children really as mature and independent as they think they are or should you intervene, especially when an addiction is involved?

    Sorry Tiger, I made this all about myself, but you asked how I was doing and I can’t just say ‘fine’.
    I hope you are feeling better than you did a few days ago. I read about Borderline again and the fear of abandonment.
    Is it truly a disorder you think or is it a result of narcissictic abuse, I always wonder. I mean is a person born with BPD? When I think about how f*cked up I often felt and responded when N-ex provoked and gaslighted me and how at ease I am now (except for the worries about my son).. it makes such a difference. I never had this kind of Borderline behaviour with friends.
    How is that for you? Is it something you deal with all of the time, regardless of who you are dealing with? Can you tell me about moments that you feel at ease, when that is?

    I hope surviving will become existing without anxiety, will become feeling at ease, will become enjoying daily life for you Tigerchelle.
    There has rarely been a moment in all of my life that I felt at ease. Hardly ever. I am passed 50 now and these days there are only moments that I feel not at ease. That is a huge difference for me. I hope you’ll get there too. Take care Tiger, big hug! xx

    1. Are you saying you exhibited Borderline behavior? I did as well. I was convinced I had it. I do not. The therapist said it’s called lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas. If the narc has secondary Borderline tendencies of the victims will start to exhibit them too. It’s is temporary in nature though

      1. Hi Lori, I recognized my behaviour as kind of Borderlinish, but it wasn’t of real great concern to me because I knew I had this behaviour only when involved with the narcs (although I had no clue they were narcs at the time). I have been looking what disorder I could have though, like perhaps ADD or Avoidant PD, but nothing really fitted, except for HSP.
        This was confirmed by my therapist last year.
        And right now I am convinced that all this behaviour and my confusion, avoidance, mindfuck, depression and suicide wishes were all due to life long narcissistic abuse (in combination with HSP).

        “The therapist said it’s called lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas.” Haha, I like that expression Lori. xx

    2. Blank

      Hey, yes that is a latest pic of me! My hair is highlighted!

      Thank you for your concern and kindness!

      I talk to my husband a LOT. He is a good man, and let’s me spill whatever is on my mind. He is my best friend and confidant and my carer.

      I’m sorry to hear of all these worries on your mind, but glad you could talk them out here.
      I do not have children, so maybe others could help more with this and advice….

      All I can suggest is to keep lines of communication open. Be patient with them. Sometimes young men, find it difficult to communicate their feelings. The games help them to not think, and just to focus on that, rather than any worries/feelings they may have.
      Reassurance and encouragement is needed in this harsh world, but especially for children.
      I hope the job interview goes well.

      Take care my lovely, and hugs to you too xx

      1. Tigerchelle, I am very happy for you to have such a fine husband who will hear you.

        I guess you don’t like to get in to my questions, that’s fine, perhaps you discussed it elsewhere here.

        “Reassurance and encouragement is needed in this harsh world, but especially for children.”

        With an addiction though an intervention is necessary, because an addict can’t always get out of the vicious circle him/herself. I couldn’t get my husband out, but I sure hope it’s not too late for my son.
        It appears I did the right thing, because he looks all happy now. So I sure hope he’ll get the job.

        I was going to ask Windstorm for information, since I read somewhere she has a child (or children) with NPD.

        Thank you Tigerchelle. Best wishes to you and take care! xx

        1. Blank

          Yes, I am grateful very much to have a good husband. I just wish he had a better and more healthier wife.

          Addiction is very difficult, and I do understand those vicious cycles, as I have dealt with addictions. It is a very painful process too. Sometimes if I’m addicted to something, there can be the tendency to want to intervene and bring about the desired solution. This must be even stronger when its your child. Obviously you know best being his mother as you know him.

          I’m now going to just mention my experience with addiction, as it may be useful, or it may not, and that’s fine either way.

          I had a certain addiction, where I spent hours and hours on my phone every day, all day, to the detriment of literally everything else. I would get so focused and into it, that nothing else around me mattered. It became my new world which I had created, and kept me engaged to such an extent, so that I didn’t have to deal with the reality of my feelings and the pain/turmoil I felt inside.
          There was a tendency for my husband to just take my phone away from me, and then the addiction would have to end. However, when I asked him why he would not do that, he said that he did not want to take away my free will away and then I end up hating him for that. He would obviously help me with that addiction, and do all he could, but he didn’t want to force me, otherwise what is often the case is, someone like myself will just find another way.

          I realise each situation is unique though and different. So what may be beneficial with one, may not work with another.

          Yes, there are other ladies here with children, who would be more able to help. Maybe HG could help also with a consultation.

          Let me have a think more about the questions and I will get back to you.

          I remember you’ve said English is not your first language? May I reassure you that although that may be the case, your English is as good as any English person, and probably better than some English speaking people certainly I’ve met. (Not talking about anyone in here).

          Please let us know how your son gets on and I hope things turn out well.

          Best wishes to you also x

        2. Blank
          I have 2 sons with NPD. I thought about responding earlier, but our family is very “tough-love.” I sense you may feel differently. I am always willing to answer any questions, though.

      2. Tigerchelle, hi!

        I’m happy to come across a lot of your comments that tells me you really are a sensible intelligent woman and it never crossed my mind you could be a narc. Just satying because of what you said last week.

        Please whenever next time you feel like getting your frustrations out, address it to me, I can handle it. Personally, I think it is a good thing to get emotions out. Respressed emotions cause long term problems.
        Try not to be depedent on other people’s validation. You are good the way you are and you can only work on your own issues the best you can. You did not cause BPD yourself.

        “I had a certain addiction”

        I’m glad it says you had and not have. You don’t tell what eventually caused you to quit the addiction. Would you mind telling?
        It’s not really a phone addiction I guess, it’s probably whatever there was to look at that caused the addiction.
        I am not addicted to my desktop PC, but I certainly was addicted to Musician Narc for 3 to 4 years, which caused me to sit in front of my PC hour after hour, especially once the mindfuck started.

        “It became my new world which I had created, and kept me engaged to such an extent, so that I didn’t have to deal with the reality of my feelings and the pain/turmoil I felt inside”

        Tiger, I guess that is what all addictions are about. An escape.

        “Let me have a think more about the questions and I will get back to you.”

        If these questions cause you to have to think too much, or you just don’t feel like answering, don’t bother Tiger. It’s okay. I was just wondering, but you do not need to come back to them if you don’t feel like it.

        About English, I know my English isn’t to bad, but I feel it is poor, because I can not express myself the way I’d like to. I learned English being an aupair in the UK and feel like I never really got beyond the ‘diaper/ironing/snotty noses-level’. You see a comment but it doesn’t tell you about the time it took me to write it, nor the time it took to read other people’s comments. I go back and forth to Google. From your comment this time I had to look up “turmoil”, “detriment” and “tendency”. Even when I read a sentence and can sort of guess what a particular word must mean, I’ll still look it up to be sure.

        I want to write 2 more comments to other people and than stop commenting for a while. I feel like I am a bit too much, so I’ll quit for a while and just read. I hope you will be okay Tiger, I like you. Take care, love Blank xx

      3. Windstorm,

        How come whenever I think of you I kind of feel a relaxed vibe?
        That’s probably why I wanted to ask you a few questions about my son. Also because I feel your situation is a bit comparable to mine, being with a Cerebral greater.
        Thank you for responding to my comment.
        I had to look up tough-love :) I mean I know tough and I know love, but I guessed there must be a special meaning in English.

        How one feels about it depends on the interpretation of tough-love I guess. My mother’s interpretation would be a lot different from mine.

        I really appreciate you are willing to answer my questions and I would value your insight. But I want to wait a bit how things are developing the next weeks. I’m not sure if discussing my children on a public blog like this is the right thing to do. If we could discuss it privately it would feel more appropriate. Here I might feel like I’m ‘smearing’ my children. I know I have ‘smeared’ my other narcs, but with children it feels more vulnerable.
        Also I want to have a break commenting on this blog.
        I think I am a bit too much lately. This blog takes a lot of my time as well and there are things that need to be done that need my priority now. I know that once I start to get into this with you, I’m hooked for another couple of weeks :). But I might in the future. Thank you very much Windstorm, you are very kind. Take care! xx

      4. My dear HG, where did my comment to Tigerchelle go? I wrote it just before I wrote my comment to Windstorm. Are you gaslighting me again sweetheart? 😘

      5. HG,

        “No. There are comments sat in moderation as you well know.”

        Yes sir!
        I am well aware of that. It’s just that I’m really curious what the criteria are you operate with.
        There was nothing in this comment to Tigerchelle that needed ‘extra’ thought. You say elsewhere that you follow the time line in which the comments come to you. I can imagine some comments need extra consideration. I even understand why some of my comments don’t make it at all to this blog. That’s fine. But you must not think that I am an idiot. I’ve had 50 years of gaslighting and narcish manipulation and I know damn well why you did not allow this comment through, but you did the other one to Windstorm.

        You do manipulate, you are a narc after all and now don’t tell me you would not do this here, because you are professional and it wouldn’t make sense, blah blah blah, like you told me before.

        I know saying this will have no effect whatsoever, on the contrary it will make me look stupid again and all your stormtroopers (I liked Tigerchelle to be so brave to mention this, it’s the damn truth) will come to your defence, as if you are not mature enough to speak for yourself. Still sometimes the truth just need to be told.

        Have a nice evening Mr. Tudor. Don’t forget to say your prayers before you go to bed, because up there they don’t like lying and gaslighting.

        PS: I do not care what you do with this comment, whatever gives you the most fuel darling, I am in a generous mood tonight.

        1. I have explained the criteria previously and it is also mentioned in the rules. No, there is no manipulation – what happens is that those who demand their comments appear or lack patience when they are in moderation bandy the M word around without any actual evidence of it. I have seen it happen a number of occasions and it speaks volumes about the accuser. Others either wait for the comment to appear or politely e-mail and ask if they have offended me or a rule – their alternative approach also speaks volumes as to what they are.

      6. My god, are you seriously commenting on something I said almost a month ago?

        WhY? Not enough fuel Tudor? Am I too quiet lately?
        This really makes me mad.
        Fuck you HG!!

        FUCK YOUI!!!!!

        1. It has been in moderation awaiting a time when I have had opportunity to address it. Other readers will tell you they have had comments remain in moderation for longer and they have not raised an issue about it.

          First you complain that the comment is held in moderation (the reason being it is held is because I wish to read, consider and reply) and then you complain that I have commented on it after it has been in moderation. Nothing to do with fuel, everything to do with the process of moderation as I have repeatedly told you.

      7. HG,

        “their alternative approach also speaks volumes as to what they are.”

        Are you seriously suggesting here that I am a narc??

        You know, yhis is not about me feeling entitled to see my comments here. It is about the person I am addressing.

        T was suicidal. I talk with her and try to comfort her. If you do not allow my comment through, after she wrote a comment to me, she will think that I ignore her. That is why I was upset.

      8. “… as I have made clear repeatedly.. ”
        “… as I have made clear repeatedly..”

        Yes, you’re like a parrot on xtc.

  9. Thank you, Windstorm… I see about the “odd one”. It confused me, at first, but now I see. 😘 I hope you get my reply!

  10. HG
    No offense but this made me nauseous. Sometimes your posts are very difficult to read. Thank you for the education on narcissism. Knowledge does mean power.

      1. True. I prefer the medicine you dispense (on the blog) instead of communicating and staying in contact with my ex.

      2. Glug, glug, glug! ….swallow painfully…, choking cough, …glug, glug, glug! And repeat.

      3. HG, this was the only reply box for You. Thank you for liking the Jigsaw Puzzle idea.

  11. I wondered why me always being there for him and declaring my love for him didn’t seem to keep him sweet…thank you, HG! A third party (lieutenant?) confided in me that he had told her that I left my husband for him and chastised me for that action. Apparently the narc stated “if she will do that to him, then what’s to stop her doing that to me.” My jaw dropped. I explained that I had been married for 28 years and therefore my track record spoke for itself…I was not in the habit of dropping one man for another. I fell in love with the narc. I don’t know if it was a smear campaign as there was some truth in the statement (I did leave my husband for the narc)…I looked at it as a poor excuse that he used to explain to the third party why we were not seeing each other anymore. The narc did say one thing very truthful: “I couldn’t give her what she wanted: LOVE”. Well that certainly was a truthful statement. He can never love anyone. HG, was it a smear or a deflection on his part?

      1. Thank you so much, HG. I have read your excellent article on the Smear Campaign and I choose #8, to ignore it. I am not mentioning it to him and the third party involved said the narc was an asshole and the result of bad parenting, so she didn’t take much stock in his remarks. For clarification (and the fact I didn’t explain things well), his remark was not about me leaving him, but about why we were not still seeing each other due to him being afraid that if I would do that to my husband, then I would do it to him (the narc).

  12. I love that you write, ‘We only want…Fuel…we don’t care how good-looking you are, how much a “whore”..between the sheets’. When you get criticized no matter how good-looking or sexy you are, and they go after any slutty thing complimenting them no matter how they look, it’s just nice to hear you say that.

    1. Narc makes women slutty, encourages it in them, and gets away with it. Their minds are all on him, not their husbands or their children. I’ve seen one young girl go nuts, she ended up looking anorexic, one eventually ended up divorced, one who lost her job because he used her on his climb to the top. #metoo

      1. HG,
        Please Write a Boss at the Office Narc so I can share it on FB. Everyone thinks he’s so nice. Women bend over chairs when he walks by, wear ridiculously short skirts for their age, wear low cut tops when they fill in at the front desk. He’s got everyone trained to perform and under his spell, while he looks angelic. They degrade themselves, everyone all smiles, the devil and his victims.

      2. Oh, and I have seen men disappear because of him. I was always like some possession on his back burner, and while he was chasing someone else, men at the office weren’t allowed to talk to me. He sent one of the guys out once to tell a man I was chatting with to get up and go to another area. A salesman at an office party gave me, like longing ‘love eyes’, and the boss saw it, was standing right there, staring at the man very seriously. The guy disappeared the next day, no goodbyes, didn’t pack up anything, no forwarding address.

  13. Reminds me of the first time Jack is horrible to Wendy in The Shining.
    She asks him how he is doing..
    Also says she will later make some sandwiches for him…he is just horrible to her..Horrible.

    Jack N is so entertaining granted and its just a horror movie but the bits where he launches into a strop with her…I always end up saying…awww…and feeling so, so awful for her..she is so sweet natured.

    That stuff in real life…that switch..And when someone is so good natured on the receiving end…
    makes my blood boil.

    Never mind their eyes allegedly turning black…lol…check out these red globes!!


    Anyway..probably better to flash ’em briefly and walk off.
    (Always with the walking really is something that I honestly do)
    Though to be fair it never failed to rile whoever. Just an unfortunate side effect often escalating things and that isnt desirable…but tough.

    I never stand sit or stay in that bs enviro!
    “If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run…”
    (Good old Rudyard K…me, him and that poem “if” ..we’re like this 🤞) Haha.

  14. Hi HG. I’ve been reading you for years. The narc/sociopath I know is upper low grade or lower midgrade. I have tons of proof of his crimes since most were used to hurt us. Now he has a lawsuit for malpractice I’d like advice on collecting as compensation for my daughter. Suddenly the journals I wrote through 22 years of abusive, horrible co-parenting seem more valuable than just for my therapy. I would like to consult with you privately but am not sure you still do that.

  15. So…the million dollar question is…when the new victim is bullet ridden do you attempt to help he or she understand what has happened (if applicable) or do you chain them to fate and maybe he or she discovers the truth as we have or maybe they do not?

      1. Sorry HG, I should have been more clear. I was putting it out there for those who might have the new victim reach out to them for answers after he or she is disengaged from.

    1. Pale Horse
      That is a tough one. If the individual reaches out to you, then I think it is ok to help, however, it may backfire so be careful and expect to be smeared by your ex. I would go on instinct with that one, as long as you don’t mind the potential consequences.

      1. Hi K,
        Thank you for your response. Fortunately, I have not encountered such a situation but thought that it did merit some deliberation. For me, I believe much heartbreak would have been alleviated post disengagement had I known what was actually happening. It was a few months before I stumbled upon this blog and it all made sense.

        1. Pale Horse
          I completely agree with you. Once I found out about NPD (Groundhog Day 2017), it was a huge relief! Then I found HG on YouTube by the end of February. Then you can focus on repairing your broken heart and moving forward.

          1. Yes, I was thinking today how fast I’ve moved on relative to breakups with normal. It is quite astounding.

          2. I’m so proud of you Dr. PH! You really have come a long way. I’ve halfway expected you to drop off the blog. I’m glad you’re still here. Cancers have very tender hearts and are quite sensitive. One of my sons is a Cancer. The first girl that breaks his heart is going to have to deal with me!

          3. Thanks MB. Yes, I am definitely the stereotypical Cancer (as in the astrological sign lol). I do not foresee dropping off the blog for a variety of reasons. I think I’ll be a long-timer here not only to learn but to be there for others as well.

          4. Dr. PH, Yes, I meant Cancer the crab 🦀. Fewer things are more painful to me than a weeping man. The pain a man must feel to be brought to tears is immense and it hurts to watch. I feel joy that you’ve moved forward from that place of despair. Even more joyful is that you are compelled to stay and help others. My wish for you is to have the opportunity to give your kind, sensitive heart to a woman that will treasure it and keep it safe. I’ve got a song dedication for you. I heard this and thought of you. (Your ex)


          5. MB, not many things make me cry. Those things that do are extremely painful. Not that I am not in great pain beforehand but I have a high threshold before the tears flow. When it does occur, I do see the beauty in it all…the capacity to love and feel that deeply. Despair is not a place I would like to visit again…those were painful, anguishing days….pre HG…pre- all of you on the blog. Still healing though and rebuilding. So…I stay…because I owe all of you…because there is something special happening here. There are too many people suffering because they do not know what they are up against…because they do not know about HG (yet)…because they do not know we exist…that help resides here…REAL help. Born out of HG’s master plan (whatever that may turn out to be)….nurtured by an army of weaponized yet still compassionate people. As for me, I often think my window to find the person you described has closed. But time will tell.

          6. PH, “I often think my window to find the person you described has closed.” Nonsense! Unless you’re dead, which obviously you are not! Do you mind sharing your age? I understand if you don’t.

            There IS something special happening here. I feel fortunate to be a part of it.

            The high threshold before the tears flow is what is so painful to see. I hope it didn’t appear that I find fault with a man crying or that I consider it weak. Quite the opposite. It takes a strong man to show that kind of vulnerability. I’m glad those darkest days are behind you. It’s ironic that the person shining the light for you is a narcissist.

          7. MB, I am 44. And no I did not take your statement to mean that you consider it a fault or weak. I think we are on the same page.

          8. PH, I imagined you younger considering you recently finished school. That’s neither here nor there. Gen Xers are the best! I’m 45.

          9. Thanks for the song MB. The sentence you wrote about a woman treasuring my heart and keeping in safe cut me deep. In a good way. That’s all I ever wanted from nex. She could not step up to the plate.

          10. I didn’t mean for it to hurt you Dr. There are women out there like that. Women that wouldn’t hurt you for the world. Everybody deserves to give and receive that kind of love and I wish that for you.

            Unfortunately, there will be some that are just after your resources. (Residual benefits) That’s the last thing you need in your life! I suggest you drive a beater car when you go out on the town. Keep the BMW in the garage 😉

          11. Dr. P H
            I believe this is a fairly recent accomplishment? I hope you enjoy seeing that preceding your name as much I do writing it. A hard fought for new beginning for you in many ways, and I’m glad to hear that you intend to remain on the blog. We are happy to have you here, and can only benefit from any opinions and viewpoints you have to offer as a male, a doctor, a fellow empath, and survivor of narcissistic abuse.

          12. Thanks NA. It is a recent accomplishment and a hard fought one at that. Outside of this blog, it is difficult to be a male and share my experience with others. I do not speak about it much.

  16. HG~ I read your blog daily, maybe a bit obsessive about reading it as I heal from a 6 year relationship with a N. A yo-yo and I go back every single time. But this time is different. I caught him in his own games of the “dirty little secret” cheating. I found the truth confronted and informed the husband of the woman (my ex boyfriend). My head is still spinning. HG~ is it safe to say that I have caused such a NARC injury that it’s possible there is never going to be a hoover to suck me back in? I can deal with the SMEAR campaign, or negative fuel he tries to get out of me. But is it possible to cause such a injury that they wont ever try coming back?

    Thank you

    1. No, the effect of wounding fades over time, plus even if there is wounding other factors may overrule its impact so a hoover still occurs.

      1. Thank you HG Tudor. Not that you need to hear this but your voice is valued on many levels. Ha ha there’s some fuel for this morning. :)

      2. This is not encouraging. It is never pleasant to wound someone- especially someone you care about (his worthiness of such emotional investment is another matter)….but in an effort to escape the clutches, the idea that no action will deter him is disheartening.

    2. Harvard, every time you arm yourself with knowledge and begin to heal yourself is another brick in the wall, another plait in your suit of armour, which in and of itself is a deterrent.

  17. I would not be the least bit surprised that rage is directed at the new prize being paraded about. Why is this person better than I? She’s not half as good as I am, how could he leave me for her? He loved me more. I believe, however, that as the understanding of narcissism grows the rage is redirected where it belongs, at the perpetrator of the abuse.

    When the affair came to light, my friend told me “I’m not stupid, I saw what was going on. I saw you dressing up for him. He does this to everyone who pays attention to him. He has a roster of people in the company he’s slept with. Sorry honeybunches, you aren’t the only one.”

    The biggest blow was when I found out that my name had been brought up in regards to a threesome. She knew all these things, saw what was going on, and said nothing. Even when I was willing to cut ties with him as a friend she told me he and I could absolutely stay friends. Why didn’t she warn me? When I asked her, she said:

    I never thought he would do it to you.

    For a long time I was incredibly angry at her – I was being scapegoated and held to task while he waltzed away on to do whatever he pleased. My life was a shambles. I’m not angry at her anymore. I understood then that she had been abused, but after being on here for a while now, the devastation is achingly clear. She was trying to reinstate the golden period; she turned a blind eye, forgave, continuing the cycle, in denial to the full extent of what he was subjecting her too.

    Anger is a very real stage of grief, and often it can be misdirected. Her anger at me, my anger at her. We cannot control what we feel, we can however, control what we do with it. I took a long hard look at mine, and put it at the feet of the person who truly deserved it.

    Healing is a very messy process.

    1. Wounded,
      This threesome bid is a re-ocurring theme I think.
      HG, is there a reason for this threesome desire beyond what I have absorbed from your work (anything else you can add)?

      – Triangulation
      – Humiliation
      – Devaluation
      – Test of desperation/willingness for one or both appliances
      – Power of the Narc and show of ‘I own them’

      Cockwaffle tried that with me and his triangulation target. I’m still not sure which of us was the IPPS or IPSS. At any rate, he’d brought her in as the second with a previous appliance triangulation- and then re-arranged the players with me involved. He even mentioned a mother/daughter aspect (someone asked me what my final eff-this moment was- there it is)

      Cockwaffle’s female colleagues know. His female staff knows. His housekeeper knows. His ex wife knows. Now I know.

      It’s mind-boggling that this abuse of women (primarily) just continues. I realize to them we are ‘appliances’ but does it stand to reason if we bond together and just collectively say ‘no’ that it will do anything to deter it? I doubt it, but I would not want anyone to go through what I am going through— and what some of his other targets are going through, right now.

      A scene from “Girl With The Dragon Tattoo” comes to mind. A marked indicator of a man’s behaviors.

      The best line in the movie:
      “Hold still. I’ve never done this before, and there will be blood.”

      1. I agree with the reoccurring theme of threes. I wonder – the triangle that is formed between parents and a child. Just idle musing.

        A) Cockwaffle? I love that.

        B) I am literally reading Girl with a Dragon Tattoo series right now. I keep hearing Lisbeth Salander in my head.

      2. Harvard, from my point of view:

        Narcissists need to stay above you. That’s why they triangulate.

        Humiliation and devaluation of the victim are mere profitable side-effects to their all-absorbing need for power.

        To us it presents as a toxic mix, to them it all contributes to their need to be above you.

        They have done it before, they know there will be blood – but they can not do otherwise. They only feel safe within this limited repertoire of conduct (plus they lack empathy).

    2. Wounded,
      I know that feeling on both sides. The revenge mixed with feelings of powerlessness and just god knows what else. She keeps forgiving him hoping that he will always come back to her even though there are no guarantees that he will stay.
      She neglects her own life, her own future.
      Who is to say that 20 years down the road he won’t dump her when he upgrades for a newer model? She spent her youth, the best years of her life stuck in an abusive relationship with no future…. hoping. Hope is a dangerous feeling. People are stuck in horrible relationships hoping that the abuser will change, that an epiphany will come about and he will realize it. I hate hope right now.

      Do you think he will be there for her when she begins to develop some serious condition?

      Unless he has something to gain from it, the answer is no.
      My ex narc stayed by his ex wife’s side during her terminal illness because he wanted to prove to his daughters that he was not the nasty man the ex wife accused him of. He wanted to show them that in spite of everything, he is a good father. Yeah right. He doesn’t care if what he’s doing is damaging them. Nope. He will give you a long list of explanations. He can care less about anyone else but his image and he will do whatever it takes to preserve that. And that’s where you see the issue. He will hurt, devalue people in front of his daughters. It is very important to him to make sure that they see that they are his number 1. So expect to be dumped, left behind, not invited to family events and etc…the family “cliquish” bullshit.

      There is no future with a man like that and whoever stays with him, will experience all forms of devaluation and isolation from him and his daughters. Triangulation 24/7, 365.

      So, each situation is different but the end result is the exactly the same.

      Yesterday, I was finally able to put all his stuff away, including my black diamond collar. His shirts, tees, underwear, belt and all the jewelry were put away. I will sell what can be sold and throw in the trash or donate the rest. I am erasing him completely from my life. Every time I see something that is of him, the thing is gone.
      I already got rid of some songs that used to remind me of him, nail polishes, perfume, pillows… everything going to Craig’s list, goodwill, trash or for resale (the jewelry). I am fucking done.

      He is out of all my social media. All of it. I unfriended him, his idiotic family as well. I unfriended friends we have in common. I blocked phone numbers. He can keep them. I can make new friends.

      Currently, no one can see my Facebook page. My timeline is blocked from everyone’s view. My profile picture removed and deleted. I don’t want him to see my face. If I could I would put a middle finger there, but it would be fuel so never mind. Twitter account is private. No pictures there either.

      His mistake is allowing the distance and the passage of time weakened his influence over me. Not that I tho k he cares, I just think he expects that he will recover this lost ground.

      But his busy with his new primary source right now so I have the upper hand.
      The only thing that I know for sure is that it won’t last because as soon as the relationship begins to move forward, as soon as the woman puts pressure, he will begin to disintegrate. she won’t have to deal with his issues of cheating and whoring but also with his daughters, particularly the older one who is also a narcissist. So it is like a “knife fight” in the dark.

      I know he will be coming back when hew relationship begins to fall apart… in the typical mid range style: victim.

      1. She finally dumped him when she found out he flew his crazy ex out and lied about it. She is DONE.

        I try to be careful and discuss it with her. It is only usually vaguely referred to. Everything from restaurants to songs are “tainted”. We have a very strong friendship now that narc is gone.

        I looked up his ex on ffaFacebook out of curiosity. She had a strength quote posted and was selling rugs and couches. More than likely purging too.

        1. I also heard about his threesome fantasies. It never happened with me but there is more to it than just sex.

          The thing about the ex was the fact that he wanted to hurt and humiliate the other girl. Things like making her eat his feces and then beat her was often mentioned. Humiliation and violence.

          One time he said that he wanted to whip her until she was bleeding. The other time he talked about stabbing her. The other time about beating her.

          I mentioned to him that it was a bit alarming to hear those thoughts and that he needed some help with those “feelings”. He said that if a woman agrees to a threesome then she is a whore and he hates whores. I said, well, if you are one of the participants then what are you?
          He said… I would just punish her and put her in her place. She is just a toy. Nothing else.

          I would get quiet.

          I didn’t know what to do with that information. You can’t call the police on that. I would have to involve his family and he would manipulate everything, deny everything and I would be the target of his rage but this guy lives in two simultaneous worlds. The reality and the thoughts in his mind.

          I am indeed lucky that I am no longer with him, because if he plays out those fantasies….

          He would react really strange when, for instance, in a movie someone was stabbed, cut. It was almost as if he could feel the cut in himself. He would move in the chair, restless, as if he felt the pain. You could tell it was hard for him to watch it. It was almost as if he was feeling an orgasm. It was that latent in him.
          I watched him with the corner of my eye. I watched his every reaction. everything. And it was always the same. Cuts, stabbings are his thing.

      2. Kathy that has elements of sadism and psychopathy. That is terrifying. I didn’t go for the three some bit (he caught on and switched up his tune. He was subtle about it.) but in this case was more about the idea of control and entitlement.

        It gives me the heebie newbies reading that. Definatley gone now right?

        1. Yes. Gone.

          Yes he is a sadist. He does like inflicting pain. I have considered the psychopath aspect but pushed it aside when I was with him. People usually mistake the terms psychopath with sociopath. They aren’t the same. I see people calling HG a psychopath, when HG said his diagnosis is a sociopath. The are closely related by psychopaths are a step forward in the process.

          I didn’t want to accept the fact that my ex narc has strong
          psychopath traits until I noticed how quickly he could turn off his “feelings”, even for the people he had close relationships with. Also when I remember the things he said, the willingness to inflict pain, and the things that he wanted to do, I can now consider the possibility. What will be the trigger that will get him in the court system? I don’t know. But I think that if he finds a woman who agrees to play his fantasies along with him, I would not be surprised if he doesn’t begin doing something criminal.

          The beginning of the end of our relationship happened when I found a shoe box hidden deep in his closet. It had blood saved in silver containers, papers smeared with blood, underwear, cotton pieces dirty with blood, cards, letters… diaries… blood everywhere.
          I felt my stomach crunching. My heart was pounding in my chest.

          I took pictures of everything. I made a video of the closet, the box in the closet, the things in the box, all the information I could get about the woman, her cards to him, letters, pictures of her body, her name, address, everything. EVERYTHING.

          I remember my whole body shaking almost uncontrollably afterwards.
          I put everything back in place and I got very quiet. I never mentioned it to him.
          I have everything saved in a very safe place.

          1. Wow Kathy… my heart jumped into my throat

            I hope you are far away from THAT. It sounds no good not at all
            In my experience, the violent ones were the ones that had addiction problems. Once they would imbibe , they couldn’t stop. Of course alcohol only added to the problem. Drugs too.

            So so sorry xx

          2. It is just so bizarre. I can understand attracting narcissists due to my personality traits and etc… but why do I attract the psychopath/sociopath in the mix?
            My ex-husband is in jail due to alcohol/drugs and violence. He shot someone, after beating another guy nearly dead in a “moment” of anger.

            Now this last narc having these tendencies as well.

            I can get over the narc fact but what is freaking me out is the psychopath element added to the mix.

          3. Kathy M,

            We must give off similar signs. The “paths” (malignant narcs) tend to veer my direction too. I’d be curious to learn what attracts them, but more importantly – what is it about them, that attracts ME??

            Stay safe, stay sane, stay single 😂

          4. It seems to be heading on that direction right now:single. I am not really looking for a relationship but rather learning about these guys out there. Observation. I can say that at least 4 guys who have contacted me are narcissists. One was so obvious that it was actually funny. So, that one was given. Love-bombing was an understatement. I posted some of his first messages in my blog. Then I got bored with the sexual innuendos, and “his assertive tone” as it felt he had my life planned already, so I just dropped him altogether. He still sends messages but I obviously don’t answer any. I ignore them. I just observe his reactions, the contained fury hidden behind the sarcasm. One time I sent him a “hi” with a smile and holy shit. The guy bombarded me with everything he could. I could feel his focus 100% on me, like a shark coming to feast. Hehehe… This is a greater for sure because he is very contained, very polite, very controlled but you can “smell” those vibes.

            The other 3 were more subtle but as the conversations progressed I could pinpoint some red flags. For instance, one would stop texting me after 7pm. I could text an answer to a question he had made and he would answer me the following day around 9am. When I asked him why he disappeared after 7pm, he denied he did it and then tried to answer every so often. His answers would come all crumbled, letters missing, words typed wrong… Oooooppps! Are we in a hurry or what?
            After I tortured him sending MOST of my messages after 7pm, I simply stopped communication, which is also driving him nuts. I think I received at least 8 messages asking me what happened.
            Goodbye married, attached … whatever narc.

            The other two turned out to be very self absorbed. After the first messages, the dialogue was about me, me, and , me. “Ok go ahead. Let’s talk about you. Tell me what you think about me” type of guys. So boring. I could sleep through it. One of them kept asking my opinion about certain “family” situations, sorta like: oh how would you react if someone did this or that or said this or that. The first time he asked me, I thought it was ok. Maybe he’s trying to get a feeling for my personality. But when he kept coming to me with more and more of those questions, a red flag went up. He’s with someone else and he has no clue how to react to her because it sounded to me that she was a narcissist herself. So of course at that point I began misleading him. I know I am bad but he used of my time, didn’t he? Now it is payback time. Strangely, on his last message he said that this “family member” went enraged when he did as I suggested and broke his TV…. ouch!

            So, if these guys are not narcissists, they definitely had strong narc traits which for me, by the end of the day, won’t keep me warm in a cold winter night. So… narc if not, if the guy is a dick head, self serving little boy and I catch on that, trust me, there will be a payback.

            And no. They don’t have my phone number. We talk via kik. I REFUSE to give them my new phone number.

            Living and learning.

      3. Kathy, holy shit. I hope you have a good support network in place. Friends/family you absolutely trust, maybe even a co worker or two. Also, narcissism seems to overlap quite a bit with psycho/sociopathy. More than likely the traits that attract narcissism also attract these as well.

        1. I am trying to rebuild a different support network. I don’t want “share” friends with him and my family is mostly narc so forget about it. That’s why I come here very often. It keeps my head straight and my anxiety level low. I still feel sick inside but I am getting better with each day that goes by. I just have felt very tired lately. I have been sleeping a lot. Any available time I have, I spend sleeping… my energy level is very low. It is not depression. It is just exhaustion. I was with him for 06 years and I am now “decompressing”…

      4. Kathy,

        I know you probably aren’t a fan of me – which is totally okay but I have to say something about a few of the posts on this thread (haven’t read it all yet). HOLY FUCKING SHIT….

        That sadist guy….that is some sick shit. I RARELY ever get the chills that guy….THAT GUY….I hope you have no contact at all with him and he can’t find you. That is some straight up serial killer shit.

        Ted Bunny….when he was helping the police catch the green river killer….he was talking about how this type of guy would like slasher films and how it was arouse him and he went into this whole profile…LOOK UP TED BUNDY ON THE GREEN RIVER KILLER….

        I will read the rest of this thread carefully now but I had to shoot you a message ASAP – i impulsively had to respond and now I am gonna like i said read more and process all the information because i like was jolted by something i read….

        I’ll be back in a few to process and write…

        1. Dr. Q,
          I saw your postings but I am on my iPhone and I can’t find them right now. I saw the videos you shared.
          To answer some of your questions. I don’t know the women so I cannot assure that they are well. The one he saw concurrently with me, lives in Maine and I believe she is still alive. As I have been “disengaged” he may be back with her. I don’t know. I know he used to travel to several different places in the US and overseas, including England, so he preferred to have his primary sources spread and away from each other. Since we were together for 6 years and just now he seemed to fully disengage from me, it is very safe to assume that his current victim is in town. Lucky me…. temporarily at least because he will come back to me for healing and… more… and that is when the problems will really happen….

          I am his safe haven. I have been with him for 6 years. I know A LOT.
          I stayed when others left and in his mind this will prove even more true when she leaves him.
          He has not cancelled the line on my old iPhone. It is in his name. For someone who hates spending money, he is surely paying a small price to keep the line active.
          I have my own line now of which he doesn’t know of yet. So by him keeping the old line active, it tells me he is not cutting the connection with me on his end.

          The battle will happen. The stalemate will end. It just remains to be seen if I will be the one nailing the last punch… which I am ready to do.

          I was in a M/s relationship with him and as far as most people think that it is just bs… trust me. He didn’t buy me a diamond collar to let me go that easy. He believes I am his and jealousy is not something I want to cause in him, unless my next boyfriend is a psychotic police officer… if you know what I mean.

          He is a computer programmer/software designer.

          I met him via a dating web site. Since we were both local things seemed “safe”.
          He hides behind the title of “Dominant” to find specific type of women who will submit to his wishes but he will take what he can get given that he likes the woman. He will go to one night stands and do whatever she allows and if he likes her, she will receive a second phone call. He was different with me because I didn’t sleep with him right away so to his eyes I was “worth” while the others were just “whores”. No It didn’t make me feel any special.

          I did a google search with his nickname and I saw he had accounts in many obscure dating web sites like adult finder,, and two others including a profile on fetlife. That is where he found some of these women. If they survived him, I honestly don’t know.
          What I can say is that he fantasizes about beating people, whipping them until they bleed, cutting people and drink their blood, and he has mentioned about killing someone and then having sex on top of her dead body, then just leave them there, like they are nothing.

          He also has cross-dressing fantasies. He would repeat it over and over again about applying eye-liners, coloring his nails black, wearing specific underwear. For me, as far as it didn’t become true, I was not so concerned.

          But I noticed that he was getting more and more restless as if looking for means to make some of these things come true. The thing about him is that he wants someone else to create the environment while he just walks in and enjoys it. He doesn’t want to do the work. So nothing ever happened with me. But I have the feeling that this will eventually leak out to the wrong person, especially if he is engaging with someone “vanilla” or worse, someone with similar traits and she will weaponize his fantasies against him. I would not be surprise the least if he didn’t show up on the news as a killer. The hate he has inside, the fantasies to hurt, to dominate, to control others and then dispose of them are overwhelming to him.

          However, there is the element of fear and fear is what holds him back. He is passive aggressive. He would rather enjoy the feast that someone else prepared. He knows he doesn’t have all the skills, especially the self control necessary to go undetected. His inconsistencies, lack of attention to detail, “careless” nature. He knows he can’t live up to that. Yet, give him the right opportunity to do so and I promise you, he won’t miss it.

          Many, many times he said He was the last man I would sleep with. I hope he has changed his mind about that or we are gonna have serious, serious problems.

      5. Kathy,

        I just read what you wrote me and that is terrifying. I personally would search and find information on the girls in the box. I wouldn’t do it from my own computer though I would do it from someone else’s because he’s a tech person. Do you know if you have a keylogger or any spyware on your phone or computers? Cameras? That’s the first thing my mind would go to. Note that This guy clearly kept little souvenirs of his dealings with these girls….

        Did you ever find strange things in his car or around the house? The bloodletting thing caught my attention because my recent ex brought that up a few times and said he wanted to drink my blood. I think I recall him saying something about you use a scalpel or something. Mine also said he wanted to partake in it and never did.

        I know this sounds nuts but maybe a week and a half before I disappeared on him I noticed marks near my upper thigh like underneath and like almost on my lower regions. He was marking me up – huge bruises some were faded but some were really purple – I do rmemeebr during sexual activity sometimes he would bite and suck but I mean I looked like I had all these bruises and like someone was branding me.

        Has anyone here shed light on bloodletting – there isn’t much shit out there because I’ve tried to look into it. I knownwe have a dominatrix or two here so can someone tell me what they know on this practice?

        1. There are no identifiers. Think for how long he has had these trophies. Only he can say. The only one I saw some sort of identification I know she’s married. The others? Just god can tell…
          He always left bruises all over my body. His marks….
          In this case it is not about BDSM. It is about the trophies he gets from his victims….

  18. Oh trust me, I felt that and for a long time I wish she was dead. I honestly still have some leftover of that feeling but is not like it was before. It is getting less and less. I deflected to her the anger that I feel for him. “She deserves it”, because she was his secondary source and she is married. He was “pinging ponging” between the two of us until I caught him. So, I was happy that she got it because in my mind she was the “whore”, the cheater. Of course, I had no clue what he is and also I was wounded. It was ugly and it turned out to be a HUGE mess because she lied to him that trap him. I think she paid a PI to find out if he was cheating on her (geeezzz really?). Then she contacted him saying that someone who lives in my area had posted things about her on Internet. By IP address the web site said it was coming from my area. He was stuck in this situation where he couldn’t talk to me about it and she was telling him all these lies. Long story short, he was treating me bad and I told him I had noticed his anger and I wanted to know what was going on because I was not going to take it.
    That’s why he told me to stop posting things only about the “other girl”. I was like what? So by my reaction he could tell I had not done it. He can smell a lie miles away and he could tell I had no clue. Yet he was furious and that anger was going somewhere. It was not me. But it was a mess because at that point both of us were had a foot out of the door and he knew it. He could feel it.
    When I look back now, I began disengagement then. I had no clue he was a narcissist but I could sense something was very wrong with him.
    At that point, I felt I was “enough” so I began pulling away and away and focusing on myself, giving him less and less. And he was grabbing onto whatever he had for me because I was the primary source and I did a damn good job at it. Remember, I was raised by narcissists. I know the dance. That’s why he was always amazed at how “accommodating” I was….
    He felt we were “One”.

    Once he cheated, that was it. He had other sources to patch up for the lack caused by my distance but his eyes were on me, on my reactions to him. From time to time I would feed him a good dose of everything he wanted and I could almost see tears in his eyes. But then I would again pull away emotionally and he would run to others.

    I had to do something for myself. Anything. So, I applied for my Master’s degree and got accepted in the program. He supported me but you could tell he was wounded. After that is his story as he finally discarded me.

    These days, I don’t feel so much that way about that lady because if it was not her, it could have been any other woman. But as I remember things I still feel that tug of hate in my stomach… so yes, I am honest. I did feel that way because I saw both as selfish cheaters and the worst that life could throw at them, it would probably not satisfy my hate. I would throw more until the were completely destroyed. Probably it would still not be enough. I would destroy them more and more until total annihilation. Then I would not feel a shit remorse. I would lick my fingers and to taste their destruction and move forward.

    That is my dark side for you. Empathy? Zero. Non-existing. At that point I am a enraged psychopath and I will cause a calculated havoc that will make Sharon Stone look like a kindergartner in her game.

    But hate hides pain and it is gradually going away now that I understand that HE is not normal… So maybe I will save the woman’s soul after all. I don’t know yet. Maybe she needs her lesson as I needed mine.
    But that’s it ladies. I know some of you are married and I don’t mean to criticize or judge. I understand things better now. I was on the receiving end so I hope that explains reactions that you may see from time to time….
    Thank you guys for letting me vent…

    1. Kathy Mor,
      I’m pleased that you feel free to share whatever you need to. We who are here understand, as not many others do in our daily lives. You are amongst friends, and we are all the walking wounded.
      The realisation of how perfectly suited we are for a N-lover is profound, and the new perspective we gain of our childhood, family dynamics, and all previous love-interests is intense, painful, and needs time to process fully. Recovery is time-consuming, isn’t it?

      1. Hi Caroline,
        Thank you.
        Yes it is. But it is fascinating too.
        It is not also recovery but also discovery and reprogramming the mind.
        Just like the narcissist has all these layers of protection so do we because honestly, if we were not getting something back from our narcs, we wouldn’t be doing and putting up with all the crap we do. Lies, cheating and all the immature childish crap that just makes me want to beat the narcissism out of him, until he cracks open.

        And so as I walk through this lengthy process and learn what happened to me, I am also forced to come to terms with things that I have learned to keep hidden below the surface. Aka: denial.

        It was a split and a symbiosis inside of myself between being an empath and a co-dependent. So s co-dependent empath? Well so you know, I HATE admitting the co-dependent weird twist of my personality but it is there and it is what made me crave his approval. What made me the super pleaser, the non-demanding and accommodating girlfriend. The one who couldn’t live without him. The thought of him dying was enough to throw me into despair.

        Now my super empath aspect has a different make up and it is what refused to allow me to go down and crash. So, when the crap broke loose and I felt my whole self being dismantled and I felt that I was going to get sick and die to the point of hospitalization … like falling into this emptiness, the super empath said: fuck no! We aren’t going there sister! We aren’t going down and crash. We will leverage and pull ourselves up and fight back. And I did. Automatic pilot. I had no clue what I was doing.

        It has been the strangest self-preservation mechanism I ever experienced in my life.

        So yes. I just have to face it.
        I am rather impressed that my anger is still fully alive though, churning quietly inside. I am aware of the dangers. So I am just watching it.

        So yes, I can see how one can get snared by a narcissist, particularly a willing victim…. like we are… were(?)

        Every normal guy I have been talking to makes me feel odd. I look at them as if we don’t belong to this same species. Their reactions throws me off and sometimes I don’t know how to react to them. I have only dated narcissists my entire life. I am not used to people say and do, call when they say they will call, leave their phones face up or alone and unlocked in front of me. I am not used to have every kiss and hug corresponded. I am not used to be able to choose what and where I want to eat. I am not used to speak my mind without walking on egg shells. There are no silent treatments!

        If they get upset they just let out all of their feelings! They want to talk about it!!!!

        What do I do???

        The way some of these guys are just transparent, nice, relaxed, caring. Normal people. Sometimes I feel that I am so far from being normal.

        Why am I scared to feel their feelings?

        With my narc was so much easier. There was nothing to feel. Just that usual coldness. Predictable behavior, usual routines. But with a normal male is a whole different ball game! They come strong and full of genuine emotions that make me feel overwhelmed sometimes. Unpredictable.

        I am not complaining. I am just stating my difficulty. I feel so odd like I am an alien. Maybe I will get used to it. I feel drained of energy right now like someone is sucking the life out of me. I am going to take a nap… my mind is confusing today

  19. “It is coming to them as it came to you. I am sure that makes you feel a little better doesn’t it? ”

    This is very narcish and far from the truth. Perhaps some victims will feel this way, but I’m sure there are others that are very worried for the next victims. The thought of other lives being ruined makes me sick to my stomach and if I knew how to prevent it, I would. I can honestly say that I wish my N-exes would be in a happy relationship now, and I would be able to relax.
    The world is so full of narcs and people that are being abused, just read any forum, read the news, it’s horrible.
    It looks like there are two kind of people in this world
    -empaths that are being abused by narcs, so they stop being empathic at one point.

    Yes, this is very black & white and I know it’s not true, because the people that are doing well, they don’t make it to the news, but still, the world is a cruel place for many people.

    1. Hi Blank,
      how are you, lovely?
      the point you made about there seemingly only being two types of people in the world has recently occurred to me too. This came as a surprise to me at first, but now I see it is a normal dynamic in relationships, and it has certainly been so in my family, for at least since records began.
      I listened today to Alain de Botton talking about sex and love, and had to laugh when he described how we say we want someone who will make us happy; we don’t however. What we really want — and who we choose — is someone who makes us suffer in a way that is recognisable to us as ‘love’. We unconsciously reference the feelings we grew up with, and feel no chemistry or excitement without something that approximates them.
      He also talked about how most of us are addicted, and exist on the edge of insanity, trying to keep it together. This is the normal human condition. Perfection is unattainable for us as humans.
      It’s like he’s read all of our posts here.

      1. Hi Caroline, I’m alright thank you dear, how are you? Don’t you just love The School of Life and Alain, I follow them on Twitter. Wisdom all over the place. Yes, I think childhood has so much influence on people. Especially feelings of ‘fear’ ‘guilt’ and ‘unsafety’ I think.

        “We unconsciously reference the feelings we grew up with, and feel no chemistry or excitement without something that approximates them.”

        That Caroline!
        I have often wondered how someone who is abused as a child and knows the pain and suffering, how that person can abuse a child him/herself.
        It is all complicated. My mind spins like 20 hours a day about literally everything.
        Tonight I’ll start my first Filosofy class, I’m scared to death.

        We’ll keep on learning Caroline, once we are aware we can make changes. Take care xx

  20. I would be most surprised if any empaths felt better knowing that their successor was destined for the same fate that befell them.

  21. “It is coming to them as it came to you. I am sure that makes you feel a little better doesn’t it?”

    No. It’s worse. But you wouldn’t be able to understand that.

    In any case, as usual, way over the top. You don’t understand long-term relationships either, and this is interesting. Most people can understand something of other people’s feelings even when they’re very different from ours. You keep acting like you understand, but failing badly.

  22. What I don’t really understand is that these articles you write, which are honest and help victims to heal, detail the horrible things you do, and the way you think and feel. You’re able to be honest with us without manipulation or abuse. You essentially wean us off of our narc, your fan club. You’re a devout narcissist, but you understand intellectually how unfair and undeserved it is to others. If you hate the creature, you seem to also enjoy appeasing it by keeping up your facade, instead of facing it and defeating it. If you were just self centered would be one thing, but it’s not, we’re the sacrifices for your godly pretense. Convenient not having a conscience, but you’re intelligent, you know right from wrong.

    Do narc ever have a wake up moment, when they just stop and think, this isn’t cool?

    Why do narc’s require less fuel when they get older?

    1. 1. No, the self-defence mechanism that is narcissism will not allow that to happen.
      2. It is often a trade off for the residual benefits that aging requires.

      1. HG,

        When you say “trade off” do you mean that the narc somehow accepts residual benefits in place of *some* fuel? Meaning that they can function with fuel – if required? (It’s not like it is a conscious trade off.)

        1. Indeed but it is not a conscious trade-off, hence you have a degree of irritability (caused by a lower fuel level) but more fuel is not sought elsewhere because of the potential to lose the residual benefit of a carer.

          1. Thank-you for your answer.

            But if they have no awareness how do they make this cost-benefit ‘analysis’ …does it just happen gradually because – and I’m guessing here – their continued lack of success of securing a sufficient primary source wears on them? They would have awareness of being irritable…that would express itself in being a complainer, overly-critical or belligerent and that in itself would garner fuel…do they just feel too tired to be charming, manipulative etc..and the act of a carer at least provides low-grade but consistent fuel?

    1. LM, same. Mind blown. Don’t hold your breath for an in person meeting, though! Maybe one day he’ll do a public talk.

      1. And there will be at minimum 500 thousand women standing there going nuts!!!!!!
        There will also be 500 thousand narcs wondering wtf just happened????
        Wooohoo!!! 🤣 (ooopsss emoji)