The Dirty Empath – Marriage Breaker


The Empath. Regarded as a paragon of virtue with those traits of honesty, decency, compassion, love devotee, moral compass and so on. All of which make the empath and their fuel output tempting prey for us. Yet within these virtuous empathic traits sit other traits, narcissistic traits.

There are four schools of empath (Standard, Super, Co-Dependent and Contagion) . Layered on to these schools are the empathic cadres (such as Magnet, Carrier and Geyser).

Each empath within the relevant school has both empathic and narcissistic traits. Some will have a small number of strong empathic traits with few narcissistic traits which are low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are moderate in strength and have few or numerous narcissistic traits which are all very low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are strong and numerous narcissistic traits which are moderate or even quite strong. The key consideration is that, in effect, the empathic traits keep the narcissistic ones ‘in check’ and thus the empathic individuals behaves in a way which is empathic with other people.

There are however two main instances when the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The first is through The Empathic Supernova which is when the empathic traits become ‘dialled down’ or eroded for a temporary time and thus the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The second instance is a permanent state of affairs and this is the cadre of the Dirty Empath. The individual is empathic, of that there is no doubt, they have those empathic traits, they also have narcissistic traits too, however one of those narcissistic traits remains strong and prominent throughout and sits alongside the fewer, weaker narcissistic traits and the various empathic traits of varying strength. This does not mean this person is a narcissist, not at all. It does not mean that this person is not an empath. What it means is that they are an empath but there is one (sometimes there might be more) narcissistic trait which ‘dirties’ their empathic status. Think of the empath coloured white with a black streak running through them. The DE is the class of empath and there are various Dirty Empath streaks.

One of the dirty streaks which runs through the Dirty Empath is that of Marriage Breaker (or Intimate Relationship Breaker). This streak is based on the narcissistic trait of selfishness.

This situation arises where the DE becomes involved with somebody who is already in another relationship. The DE is single. The other person is not. There are those empaths who would never have a relationship with someone who is already committed to another. The level of refusal varies from those who might engage with someone who is dating other people but would not if they are in a steady relationship and not at all with someone who is living with another person and is/or married, through to those who refuse to countenance any romantic interaction with someone who is engaging with other people, at any level.

The Dirty Empath will not actively seek out a romantic relationship with someone who is already married. If the DE knows somebody is in a relationship, they will not pursue that person as that offends the empathic traits of the empath. The narcissistic trait of selfishness is not so strong as to override the empathic traits and cause the DE to want to pursue and engage in a relationship with someone who is already taken, committed to somebody else and so forth. Such an act is the preserve of someone who is a normal (even then it remains unlikely) and is more likely the response of someone who is narcissistic (not an empath and not empathic) or a narcissist.

Accordingly, a Dirty Empath will not target, pursue and engage with a person who is already in a romantic relationship.

That point made, what are the circumstances which give rise to the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker? There are three.

The common thread where the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker (“DEMB”) arises is where the DEMB is targeted by the other person. The person will be highly narcissistic or more usually, this person will be one of our kind.

Addressing the three circumstances :-

The Ivory Response

The DEMB is seduced by the Other Person (“OP”). They do not do the seducing. The OP does not tell the DEMB that they are in a relationship and if the OP is (and most likely will be) a narcissist, the DEMB will be the Candidate IPSS or Shelf IPSS. The DEMB may well be strung along in this fashion, oblivious to the fact that the OP is in a relationship, for some time. They may have suspicions but as ever, the OP will use plausible deniability to assuage those concerns. In the usual style of the seduction of the golden period, the DEMB will be taken in and engage romantically with the OP.

You may be thinking that since the DEMB does not know the OP is in a relationship, was not the pursuer and has been seduced, is it not somewhat harsh to describe them as a DEMB? Possibly, but the fact remains that they are romantically entangled with another person who is in a relationship and thus that comes within the umbrella of DEMB.

However, there comes a point where the DEMB finds out that the OP is already in a relationship. This may happen whilst the seduction is ongoing, it may (more likely) occur when there is devaluation or during a period of being placed on the shelf. The DEMB having learned of this will not immediately walk away from the OP. They will, in accordance with their status as a truth seeker want to gain answers from the OP. The relationship will continue. The DEMB will also make it his or her mission to tell the spouse or partner of the OP what has been happening, thus they earn the epitaph of Marriage (Relationship) Breaker or at the very least, disruptor.

The DEMB will fail to get adequate answers from the OP. The DEMB will not however just retreat, upset and distraught at having ‘been played’ and lied to. This is where the DEMB’s selfish trait flares up. Their moral indignation at their situation must be attended to. They will not withdraw and allow the OP and his or her partner to mend matters and patch things up. No, the DEMB will :-

  1. Ensure the OP’s partner knows what has happened in detail and will encourage them to walk away from the OP;
  2. Ensure other people know about the OP’s behaviour;
  3. Ensure the OP is told precisely what a low-life, cheating bastard he or she is.

Once 1,2 and 3 have been achieved, the DEMB then walks away from the carnage caused and endeavours to remain out of the hoovering clutches of the OP, the OP now desperate to find a new IPPS since in all likelihood the actions of the DEMB have caused the narcissist OP to lose his existing IPPS and be looking at a fuel crisis.

Accordingly, the DEMB is not whiter than white because (unwittingly) they engaged in a relationship with an attached OP. They cause carnage through their response to learning of the cheating behaviour of the OP towards themselves and the OP’s IPPS (and possibly other IPSSs). They are not completely blackened however as their response has sought to achieve some good, albeit for selfish reasons. The DEMB walks away from the OP (and tries to stay away) and accordingly the response arrived is off-white, hence ivory.

The Point of No Return

Similar to the above, the DEMB does not know that the OP Narcissist is attached to someone else. The DEMB is pursued, seduced and falls for the OP. At some juncture, the DEMB later learns that the OP is with somebody else. This could be during seduction, when being placed on the shelf or through devaluation.

The response is not one of ivory however.

Instead, the DEMB has reached The Point of No Return. Such is their addiction to the OP Narcissist, such is their desire to keep that person as their own and ‘beat’ the OP’s partner, the DEMB’s narcissistic trait of selfishness rises to the fore, overriding the empathic traits and causing the DEMB to fight for the OP.

He or she will do whatever they can to maximise their chances of being retained by the OP over the OP’s Partner. The combination of the seductive addiction and their own selfish narcissistic trait means that they will :-

  1. Tell the OP’s Partner about their existence;
  2. Focus on winning back/retaining the OP’s interest;
  3. Possibly even smearing the OP’s Partner themselves in order to achieve their aims.

The DEMB’s usual empathic traits are outshone by this single, strong narcissistic trait of selfishness to the extent that they appear to have taken leave of their senses. They want the OP, they see that they should be the one who ‘wins’ the triangulation and they will keep on trying to secure this outcome again and again, even when placed on the shelf or devalued. Of course the OP may well find their relationship with their IPPS in tatters but will not be unduly concerned as the Narcissist OP will feed on the twin stream of fuel and either remain with the original IPPS and dis-engage from the DEMB IPSS or choose the DEMB IPSS instead and continue with the shelf arrangement with them or make them the new IPPS.

The DEMB in these circumstances has reached the Point of No Return, they want the OP and notwithstanding the carnage caused, the roller coaster ride which awaits them, they earn the title of DEMB justifiably.

The White Knight

In this scenario, the OP tells the DEMB that he or she is with someone else. Nevertheless, the narcissist OP will adopt the tactics of

“We are effectively separated.”

“We are only together for the children and lead separate lives otherwise”

“I am being abused.”

“It is a loveless marriage”

“I have tried to make it work but he/she just isn’t interested any more and I have not left because x, y or z”

“My wife doesn’t understand me.”

The DEMB adopts the role of White Knight riding to the rescue to save this poor OP from their misery, their banal existence or the clutches of the tyrant spouse. It is the familiar story of faked misery and abuse manufactured by the narcissist OP, the cultivation of the DEMB in the role of rescuer, the OP as ‘victim’ and the OP’s Partner as the ‘perpetrator’. The DEMB operates through a hybrid of empathic traits (doing the decent thing in rescuing the poor downtrodden narcissist OP, exhibiting compassion for this person etc) and also the narcissistic trait of selfishness because they want to be with this person, they want to ‘save’ them even though they are attached to someone else. Yes, they have been duped by the OP’s manipulative act and illusory behaviours, but nevertheless, the DEMB knows this person is attached and because they do not walk away, but instead engage in the relationship with the narcissist OP, they earn them mantle of DEMB.

Thereafter, this White Knight DEMB may be the Candidate IPSS and becomes crowned as IPPS, only then to suffer the devaluation and then learn the truth about the nature of the OP and what he or she did to the innocent OP’s partner. They may become the Shelf IPSS and find out the truth when they are on the shelf or possibly (though rarely) have been dis-engaged from. Once the White Knight realises they are not the rescuer, their response changes and they may respond with an Ivory Response or continue to fight for the OP, as per the Point of No Return. The fact remains, they knew this person was with someone else but they engaged with the OP and went along with the seduction despite this state of affairs. Yes, they may well have done so for noble empathic reasons but they also did so for a narcissistic selfish trait also.

Thus the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker arises in three different ways, all of which either dent, damage or destroy an existing relationship between the narcissist (or narcissistic) OP and their existing partner.

88 thoughts on “The Dirty Empath – Marriage Breaker

  1. KG says:

    Thank you HG!
    Much appreciated.

    Btw there was no exposure from me. I knew for a long time what he is but never exposed. I did use the term on him directly a couple of times though, but never bothered to explain, just planted the seed 🤔

    Think he is mid range, passive-aggressive

  2. KG says:

    HG, some added info:

    I actually have no idea what I was to him. OPP did not end things when I told her about our relationship she decided to leave him long after when we both found out about the IPPS, which was 1,5 years in total into my relationship with him.

    He then pleaded that I stay and not leave him which I did and this was after he already knew about my involvement with his best friend. He didn’t “move in” with me per say, he just ended up coming home everyday with the exception of 1 or 2 nights elsewhere.

    Over the 7 years I got blamed for the “affair” with his friend as though he was a saint yet I even continued to find out about other women, but nevertheless we continued the relationship.

    However things were pathetic, we would separate a number of times but he would always hoover me back into the relationship very quickly, this time is different it’s been 10 months, in the past he would always come back by 3 months or earlier. I was also treated very harshly when I wouldn’t give in. He would physically attack me if he wanted to come back and I didn’t give in.

    Towards the end he would stay out more and come home less and extremely late if he did. I also have 2 kids from previous relationship (I am a widow) and he would say that I must be grateful for the time he does spend with me and would imply I ruined things by getting married a long time ago??? I never got that because I never knew him then.

    Anyway just wanted to give you more detail so that you can give me an accurate response.

    I have gone no contact the wrong way since I returned most of his belongings. In truthfulness I can’t accept this defeat and I want him back. Not sure what that says about me?

    I think my dad was a narcissist and my mother is a hypochondriac , can’t quite place her in terms of personality disorder.

    I’m searching for answers but at the same time I cannot bear what the N has done to me.

  3. KG says:


    I am a DEMB but I am not ivory neither WK
    I knew about OPP from the start but he never gave any indication that he intended to end it except that he continued to seduce me. I reached a point of no return. I told OPP about my involvement and competed to win him and I did eventually become IPPS (I think) 1,5 years later.

    During honeymoon phase I became upset with the whole situation and also found out about other IPSS and so I cheated on him with his best friend!!! But not an affair only for one night. I told him about it, but he continued our relationship. I again had a few more one night encounters with his best friend over the years and he found out and still stayed???

    After 7 years we had a fight and I told him to leave and he did with no return. I contacted him after 4 months to return his belongings and he went into a rage but I got the feeling it was because he had replaced me and didn’t want me coming around to spoil things.

    It has now been 10 months total since his absence, I only received one Hoover shortly after I made contact , I think he just happened to be in my area and followed me for a bit then disappeared.

    My question: what becomes of me? Will he ever return or am I painted black and left alone forevermore for punishment and revenge.

    Ps: the day I returned his belongings I told him I can see that he has moved on and its over, he told me that it’s not over and he would tell me if it was over?? But I never saw him again? Except for the proximate Hoover months ago ?

  4. blondie says:

    Will you write about the empath cheating on the Narc? Or do you have any material for that?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      See Cheating on the Narcissist

      1. blondie says:

        Thank You

  5. Anonymous says:

    Thank you, HG. I find the Dirty Empath concept very complicated.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Would it be possible for both people in a relationship (both married to other people) to be Dirty Empaths? If this is possible, could one be “dirtier” than the other?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is possible. Could one be dirtier than the other? Yes.

  7. Alexissmith2016 says:

    Was Diana a dirty empath ? Or borderline ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would certainly state she was a Dirty Empath. I know there are people who consider her to have been a narcissist, but I disagree. She exhibited considerable emotional empathy towards her children and the people she engaged with. In particular, her behaviour towards the land mine victims and also an AIDS sufferer (when the disease was still heavily stigmatised) stand out as examples of emotional empathy. There is no doubt she had narcissistic traits – she was very image conscious (although that of course went with the position she was in) and showed considerable jealousy at times, but she was not a narcissist. Was she a borderline? I think she most likely was and therefore was both DE and B/line.

      1. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Oooh thanks HG. I’ve only just seen this reply. A really helpful explanation.

      2. analise13 says:

        HG, did you ever meet Princess Diana?
        If so could you tell us about that occassion(s)?

        I know through reading you have quite a few celebrity connections.

        I agree with your synopsis of Diana, dirty empath, with narcissistic traits and BPD.
        Empathy, overriding Narcissism.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I met her at a white tie dinner when I was very young. She was even more beautiful in the flesh than you would see in pictures or on television.

          1. analise13 says:

            How exciting HG. Were you older then a teenager, at the time ?

      3. KG says:

        “She exhibited considerable emotional empathy towards her children and the people she engaged with. In particular, her behaviour towards the land mine victims and also an AIDS sufferer (when the disease was still heavily stigmatised) stand out as examples of emotional empathy. There is no doubt she had narcissistic traits”

        … most of which we saw on TV right? Or read about? Could this not have been a very good pretense, considering her role in society?

        Just a thought

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed it could KG and one is alive to such a facade, however there was other evidence available.

  8. ANK says:

    ‘Thus the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker arises in three different ways, all of which either dent, damage or destroy an existing relationship between the narcissist (or narcissistic) OP and their existing partner.’

    Yes i knew he was married and yes I allowed myself to be seduced, so narcissistic traits were brought to the for, the need for attention/affection/love etc.

    But did I break up his marriage? I’m not sure. I never asked him to leave his wife or felt like telling her – may be he thought ‘ah my methods of seduction worked on her, and the new married target, I’ll divorce to make it easier to be able to target other married women’.

    Finding out that he had new supply has brought on more of an Ivory/PON response.

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      I guess I’m the dirtiest empath of them all I seem to keep hitting these dirty categories one by one ..,

      1. ANK says:

        Dr HQ,

        I’m sure we can all find bits of us in the various classes of empaths. Same as narcs we have experienced have a bits of more then one class cadre.

        At times I think about the way I have behaved and acted in situations I the past, and wonder if I’m some kind of Narcissist too.

  9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Dirty empaths are the fun empaths.

  10. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    I’ve been in other situations too….

    But regarding my ex…


    I knew exactly what I was doing and what was going on (the stuff he told me which were lies and bullshittery)…

    1. ANK says:

      Dr HQ,
      Did you let on that you knew he was lying and bullshitting?

  11. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    I did what I wanted and I didn’t care. I knew he was with someone but he was telling me how unhappy he was.

    1. Tiny Dancer says:

      Would it have worked to tell you that when he was with his wife he was happy enough but when he’s alone he’s bored and you seem like an easy distraction?

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        i was an easy distraction regardless …

        He wasn’t happy with her he’s not happy with anyone … and he’s not happy alone lol

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        If I was told it didn’t matter either which way… that no one really mattered to him I wouldn’t have gotten involved…

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I hate wasting my time

      4. Tappan Zee says:

        TD. Yes. Brutal honesty to kill my emotional thinking. But that is a moot point. NO narcs are honest or available. Married or not.

    2. ANK says:

      I knew he was married and although he never in so many words said he was unhappy he implied that she was not the love of his life, said he wished he’d met me 27 years ago, before his first marriage!

      I’m ashamed to say that when I did eventually sleep with him, I didn’t feel bad.

      1. Tappan Zee says:

        ANK. omg i felt like dirt. the only remedy was to be told and allow
        ET to con me. love you. want to marry you. why didn’t not we marry decades ago. blah the rest. his processs of and eventual rapid follow through of D helped assauge my guilt. ALSO I can look back now and see several devaluations to me b4 the actual D. Perhaps as a test. Perhaps bc he is a narc. It’s what they do.

  12. Sues423 says:

    Ivory response!! That’s me! This senerio just happened to me a year ago! I did #2 and #3. I never did #1 but I wanted to.

  13. nikitalondon says:

    Nobody damages or destroys any relationahip. If anothef person makes it into somebody who is in a relationship its because there is no love amymore and the relationship might as well end.

    1. June says:

      Sigh. Spoken like someone who’s done what you’re trying to justify. Where’s the dislike button when you need it?

      No outside person can single-handedly destroy a relationship that didn’t have problems to begin with. But an outside person CAN drive the pair farther apart and be the proverbial straw that broke the relationship camel’s back.

      1. nikitalondon says:

        well then it had to happen like that. A strong loving relationship would not break. If it breaks there is no öove so better it breaks

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        I have to completely disagree on that one. I’m incredibly happy, the luckiest person in the world to have the husband I do. But the mind control which was used on me by the MN when we were friends, to then lead me into an intimate partner relationship was unbelievable. Not only that but I had previously found him creepy and I was not attracted to him in the slightest, in fact actually repulsed by him. he used the circumstances of his ‘illness’ to prevent me from not being his friend anymore. Until finally the mind control had fully set in.

        It’s a few years ago now. I was lucky enough to escape his tendrils. I’m now extremely grateful for the experience. It has opened my eyes to what the world is really like. It’s helped me in every aspect of my life. Of course that is largely down to HG.

      3. Tappan Zee says:

        June. This is victim blaming. Or strikes a chord for me. As a WK. I had no interest in ending a marriage. It was all smoke and mirrors. The marriage ended. So did we. Not either partners fault. Neither being hers or mine. I felt guilt, shame and so forth. I confessed (Catholic) so if that makes you feel better. Cool. I look back and wonder so much about her (never met, diff states) But we both (and all other atop the scrap heap of victims were not to blame) it only keeps the narcs plausible deniability sparkling like the rims of his garishly overpriced vehicle. We lost before the game started. And none heard the gun so only the narc ran the race. Still running. Lastly. The marriage was “over” per him when he recycled me. Obv no clue the truth NOW. We are all over b4 we start, she lost more money. Time. And I am sure blood, sweat and tears. I hurt for her. He is onto even newer pastures. Last and only point. They are the doers not the done to. They do what they want. I could not “make” him do anything. Let alone that. It’s funny to think wow I was a bad ass. NOT.

    2. Anonymous says:

      Sometimes I have to remind myself that we’re all supposedly here to learn about narcissism and to educate ourselves. If an outside person makes it into a relationship, it’s most likely because there was NEVER love and because the person who lets (or rather brings) the other person into the relationship is probably a narc. Let’s just get that clear.

    3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      I always say u can’t steal a man away … he goes willingly lol

      1. ANK says:

        I agree!

      2. nikitalondon says:


    4. ANK says:

      But they never do end it. That’s the thing. People stay together even though things aren’t good. Then someone comes along and an affair starts, and then they possibly end the relationship to be with the affair partner.

      Less than perfect marriages/relationships are narchole’s hunting ground for new sources.

      1. Tappan Zee says:

        ANK. Mine left her. “for” me. For “real”. Nothing’s real. I left him. Let that sink in. AND? Ta-da. Spoiler: GH yada yada. NC stopped that like bitch. Stalking etc. THE DAY it was served? New appliance crowned. It’s a thing. So funny not funny. BUT time is FINALLY unthawing me and on occasion I can go huh. Well that was a shit show. Proud to have navigated the land mines.

  14. Salome says:

    I mean the WK have realized that what says the OP isn’t true:
    “I have a girlfriend but it will end soon”.
    After two months they are still together and of course the OP tells: “I never say that”.

    1. Salome says:

      “I never said that”

  15. Sniglet says:


  16. Salome says:

    Dear HG

    There is also other possibility.
    The White Knight realize that OP has some more partner. The empath doesn’t want to play “ivory” or “no return” scenario and starts No Contact immediately.

    I know it’s possible because it’s my case.
    How can we called this reaction?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      But did you know that the OP had a partner from the outset?

      1. Salome says:

        I have discovered it by myself.

        It happened on some Saturday.
        We work together at opera haus.
        He congratuleted me my performance, we confirmed that we will see on Monday.
        After that he took unusual exit.
        I didn’t know whay.
        After few minutes I saw him walking with a girl.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for clarifying. That is not the White Knight. The White Knight knows at the beginning that the narcissist has a partner. You did not know, you later found out and then you instigated no contact once you realised, that is ivory.

    2. Salome says:

      Dear HG
      Thank you for your answer.

      My situation situation is so complicated…

      I’m the Married Target.
      First he was complaining about his future ex-wife (during his divorce) so I think I was the WK.
      I felt some discomfort, so I told him to erase my phone number and I was avoiding him for a three months. Of course he started his hoover.
      And then I saw him with the other victim.(He didn’t see me and I didn’t talk ever to the girl).
      He told me she is somebody completely new.
      Just after that I went abroad for two months so it was easy to be faraway from him.
      After I came back at work he start his hoover again (of course painting black his girlfriend and saying he almost have finished with her).

      AT THIS MOMENT I HAVE DISCOVERED HG TEACHING and understood the triangulation will never end.
      “One is never enough”.

      I’m on my one month NC.
      I don’t want to talk to OP’s other victim.

      I thought to inform the other girl make the response ivory.
      Am I right?

  17. Love says:

    Great read. Thank you! I was with a few narcs whom I did not know were married. I did not find out about their marital status until I was neck deep into the relationships and in love. However, my reaction was neither Ivory nor Point of No Return. I felt immense amount of guilt for being the other woman yet I could not just walk away. I never wanted to hurt the other women. I didn’t want to break their marriages. As much as I loved the men, I didn’t want them for myself after I found about their women. Luckily I finally had enough and left those scenarios. A mistress is the most unglamorous position to have.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  18. K says:

    You are correct; I would never pursue anyone who was in a relationship. My ex claimed that he and his girlfriend weren’t in love anymore and I was in a miserable relationship with a lesser. He seduced me and it was so intoxicating that I didn’t care about his IPPS at all. His synthetic love was euphoric and I was hooked. It was absolute ecstasy. I am dirty and I like it.

  19. I’m down with OPP yeah demb bitch me!
    Other People’s Property for you 80s Chix.

    1. 1jaded1 says:

      Is that what it meant? OPP was something a dirtier in my circle. ABB…did you have a HS reunion last year? Did you attend?

      HG…did you? If so, did you attend?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I did and yes I did attend.

        1. 1jaded1 says:

          Was it amusing? Did the DJ play a ton of DM and other 80s music? I can’t decide if I want to go. Not an invitation, but it would be interesting for you to walk in with me. N2 has plenty of lieutenants and the reactions would be priceless.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            There was plenty of fuel. The DJ played a variety of tunes, there was some DM yes, asked for by yours truly. I also seduced a former IPPS (she was married) but always held a torch for me. I would happily walk in with you for the effect caused and of course to spend some time with you.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I’d rather chew glass than go to a high school reunion.

        I hated everyone then and I hate them now lmao.

        1. 1jaded1 says:

          I’m not fond of reunions. Most of the people I couldn’t care less. So many were so pretentious. Through the grapevine, I heard many were divorced etc…not what you think about most likely to live happily ever after. I wasn’t bullied. I was and still am a geek. I am interested in how others fared, only for study purposes. I am okay with where I work. I met my goal. I don’t need a SO to validate me. . N2 did his best to invalidate me. He had success until he didn’t.
          It would be hilarious to see jaws drop if I walked in with HG.

  20. narc affair says:

    Its been helpful reading these bc for so long i felt i was a bad person for being unfaithful. I no longer consider myself that way bc circumstances lead me down the path im on. If my marriage wouldve been one where we couldve fixed the areas that were lacking i wouldve preferred to do so but i tried many times. To leave wasnt an option either bc of the bond i share with my husband so this was a way to fill a need and still keep my marriage intact. In many ways ive paid for my choice and its never a winning situation. If i could go back knowing what i do now i probably wouldnt of been unfaithful bc it complicates things further. I definitely wouldnt of hooked up with a narcissist. That said, i feel were meant to let our lives unfold how theyre supposed to and not look back. This was my direction and im meant to travel and learn from it. Its not been an easy one. I consider myself very empathetic but no person is perfect and without fault. Empath or not we all make mistakes in life and have narcissistic traits. My dirty strand would not be here if i wasnt in the situation im in. Cheating was never something i craved or wanted to do.

    1. 𝑪✰ says:

      Narc affair…. you are not a bad person…. you have a conscious and you made a mistake. it wasn’t done maliciously… you show remorse….you learned. thank you for sharing…

      1. HG Tudor says:


      2. narc affair says:

        C ☆…thank you. I have learned and am still learning. Ive stopped beating myself up and have started looking at the whole picture from an outsiders view. No blame on hubby or myself just the dynamics of what lead to this. I never felt the urge to look elsewhere until years of trying to resolve a problem that wasnt resolved.
        Id never knowingly enter into a affair with a married man but the scenerio of not knowing he was until attached poses an interesting question. Both my affairs were with single men and they knew i was married.

    2. PureRage says:

      There is one reality here that it is missed?
      The OP narcs seduced the empath in the first place… took advantage of her vulnerabily, and with deceitful promises made believe his b******t.. he then secured her etc… he made her dirty .. he drove her to dig for her narcissist traits to try to win his love back… because she loved him …and tried to stay together as he claimed he would..he drove her to rage ….. he made her dirty..
      i know it sounds very narcissistic to put all the blame on the narc…but it is the truth in many cases.

  21. 𝑪✰ says:

    HG, is there a “clean” empath? have i missed something….

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Twilight says:

        May I ask how many “clean” empaths have you come across? You deal with many people so I would come to the conclusion you have spoken with a few.

        1. HG Tudor says:


      2. 𝑪✰ says:

        have you written on the subject yet, HG?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Repeatedly. It is those empaths which are not Dirty Empaths.

      3. Salome says:

        Lets call them Boring Empaths

  22. Violet says:

    This was my dynamic but never went far, I refused to do so. But how realise the only reason I got into the situation was I was so depressed I didn’t care about anything. Due to familinarcs

  23. Tappan Zee says:

    White Horse.
    Spot on.

  24. Alexissmith2016 says:

    Now that is dirty HG. I’m just a mere smudge.

  25. June says:

    This post and the one about infidelity are really helpful in understanding why normally empathetic people cheat. For me, at least. 🙂 Maybe everyone else who visits this blog already understood.

    So I suppose the way it works is like this:

    My Mother (seduced by other person, dissatisfied with marriage)-Dirty Empath

    My Father (actively saught out opportunities to cheat, didn’t wear his wedding ring when he was out, wanted to “have it all”)-Narcissist

    The Sleazebum She Cheated With (married himself, 2 children, cheating on his wife who was in the hospital with a debilitating disease)-Narcissist and deserving winner of Asshole of The Year (drawn from the people in my life, at least) title! 😀

    1. Kippy (@AMEOWSY) says:

      I see clearly that I was the IPSS carrier empath with weak traits of narc
      selfishness . A DEMB, single white Knight to the OP who is exactly the Narc and AoTY with kids from a prior marriage and a newlywed to an non DE that was supposedly in decline and hospitalized. Perceived as becoming shelved became the Ivory #1,2,3 then became the PONR 1,2 in a narcicisstic sinister type selfish method of payback to the OP as vengeance or justice for me and all the past women he destroyed . The weapon of knowledge about NPD behavoir learned during stage 1 of the post disengagement battle (in July 2017) taught me how to manipulate the OP in effort to soothe the disengagement and get vengeance. This backfired, lol . Hoovering was elicited through 10 ways to create a hoover article and I now teeter with gained strength to battle #2 since the hoovering brought enlightenment that becoming IPPS would not be as easy as just merely obtaining a hoover from the OP. I will most likely be too selfish to return to the shelf and move on. Unfortunately I read that the battles after reaching land do not ever end until the life of the narc does unless he becomes a hoovering entity in the afterlife….or until my own death…….which would occur at the moment of encountering a post mortem hoover if not before,

  26. catlady2468 says:

    Interesting as always HG, your mind works in marvelously intriguing ways. Excited for more details on empaths and their subdivisions as seen from your view. It’s a rare opportunity for self-knowledge that I don’t believe any other has touched on to date, other than the boring and somewhat infuriating ‘poor sensitive empath’ crap that’s spewed all over the place (codependent, highly sensitive person, or any other term used to portray us as weak overly dependent martyr types not that these don’t have their time and place or persons but we all know that people are unique and react with varied methods of coping when faced with certain experiences and a fair number of us don’t fall to pieces and die of heartbreak at least not visibly so or maybe not until in the clear as seen in our view anyway, and you are the only person who has addressed this as far as I know).
    Keep it coming, I luvs it 🙂

    1. K says:


      Let me add a category to your list of empaths. I call them Waffle Empaths: They are wishy-washy pearl-clutching weaklings.

      When I see a Waffle Empath, I want to slather them with butter and pour syrup all over them, then eat them, shit them out and use them as fertilizer. Hmmmmm…maybe I will plant some pretty Narcissus for next spring.

      1. 𝑪✰ says:

        LOL, K!! Thanks for the smile today!!

      2. K says:

        Much obliged! I have decided not to hold back my true feelings any longer; I am letting it all out from now on! I am so glad I could make you smile, C*!!! You made my day too. Thanks!

  27. Indy says:

    Hmm never knowingly been in these situations either. I believe I have always been an IPPS and never found them to be an OP. I had caught my first ex bf cheating on me but I was the IPPS and the other was a fling. The ex husband cheated emotionally (possibly more though I never found out) with a “friend”. The other long term exes never were caught cheating. I have gone on a few dates with people (2-3) I suspected had another life and thus ended it, without knowing for sure and never going all the way.

    Waiting for the next dirty strand! I must have one in there!! Maybe Dirty Empath related to achievement/success focus (a narcissistic quality)? Dirty smarty pants Empath? Oh the options are endless…dirty Diana Empath, dirty mouth empath, down and dirty kinky Empath 😂

    1. Indy says:

      For those too young to know the Dirty Diana reference😄

    2. 1jaded1 says:

      I’m looking forward to the next in the series as well, Indy. The marriage breaker….home wrecker has been an eye opener. Most of my male friends are married but I am not going to respond in the affirmative to a request for a fk.

      HG. What is your take on emotional affairs? Is this part of the dirty series?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        It is.

        1. 1jaded1 says:

          I can’t wait. As per usual, I have to.

  28. KT says:

    The DEMB IPSS wont get it right to break up the OP’s relationship so easily if the OP is a narc since in that case the OP’s IPPS would be bound to and hooked on him

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