Why Does The Narcissist Seem So Odd?



It is accurate to state that we operate in three essential states. There are varying degrees within those states, differing levels of intensity which are affected by factors such as the type of narcissist that we are, what we require from you, the level of empathic individual you are as well as several others.

Nevertheless, there are three basic states.

The first, as you would expect, is the golden setting. We are at our most wonderful, most brilliant and most loving when in this state. This always appears during our seduction of you and we will reinstate it from time to time and often when we hoover you in order to suck you back in and keep you hanging on to us.

The second is the dark setting when we instigate our devaluation of you. This dark setting allows us to deploy our various machinations against you, a variety of different  manipulations as the abuse begins and we make your life particularly unpleasant. This requires effort and energy on our part and whilst we will be rewarded with fuel, a certain degree of application is required to use these manipulations against you. When we unveil our dark setting it is upsetting and confusing but often you will find some reason to explain our behaviour.

It is usually the wrong reason but you will find one nevertheless as you like to understand and have a reason to explain why someone is behaving in a certain way towards you – you decide we are stressed, tired, hungover, in need of affection or perhaps you are unduly harsh on yourselves so that you, in that usual empathic manner, blame yourself for the behaviour we have meted out against you. Perhaps you did not listen when you ought to have done, perhaps you should have realised that we wanted to go out tonight, or that we would not want chicken for a second time this week.

There is a third setting and this often proves more confusing than our unpleasant dark setting. This setting might be regarded as a neutral setting, somewhere between the golden and the dark, but it is not. This setting is on the road to the dark setting and is closer to that than the golden. This particular setting is the stranger setting.

There will be times when we do not wish to apply considerable energy to our continued devaluation of you, but the devaluation must continue. It may not be as harsh, since there is no shouting, no violence, no insults and such like.

It is not the golden period because we show no affection, we do not do things for you and we do not exhibit any of the charm that once flowed so readily from us. During this stranger setting we are neither wonderful nor awful but we behave like someone who doesn’t really know you and you are certainly left feeling like you are dealing with somebody else.

If you telephone us we will not dole out a silent treatment and ignore your repeated calls. We will not answer in less than a ring and speak to you with affection and enthusiasm, instead we answer and engage in a monosyllabic conversation. It is like drawing teeth. We confirm that nothing is wrong and you may think there is but we have not responded angrily or harshly.

We have not accused you of anything, we have not labelled you in some way but the conversation is flat. It is as if our personality, whether golden or dark has vanished and left almost an automaton in its place. We function, we talk about our day but with little detail and certainly no enthusiasm. We ask questions of you but they are polite and perfunctory as if we are just going through the motions. There is no nastiness, no backbiting or sneering. It is difficult to process because it is not nothing, that cannot be the case because we are talking to you, but it feels like nothing.

We may call around to see you but it feels like an inspector has called around. We sit, we decline a drink that you offer us and we answer your questions without offering you anything much in return.

Where has the charmer gone? Where has the monster gone? Who is this stranger that looks like us, sounds like us but is not behaving like us? You cannot accuse us of being unpleasant but it feels unpleasant because you are dealing with someone you do not recognise. Any questions about what is wrong with us are politely answered and you are assured there is not a problem, but we seem lifeless. You flatter us, compliment us and whilst we accept them there is no spark of interest, there is no response.

Why are we like this? Why is this being done? Why do we seem like someone else? It is as if we have been abducted by aliens in the night and replaced with a robot which is neither wonderful nor savage but is frustratingly something else.

This third setting occurs during the devaluation period. It is not a respite from devaluation as that is the golden setting once more. It is clearly not the dark setting as that is the rolling out of nastiness and abuse. This third setting is an indicator of the calm before the storm.

Whilst there are occasions where we might switch from golden to dark setting in the blink of an eye, this third setting is used when we wish to conserve energy in readiness for unleashing a particular savage next stage in the devaluation as we will move to the dark setting and crank it up to eleven. You are not cruising along being driven by fair winds, nor are you being thrown up and down buffeted by a storm, instead you are becalmed or moved along by a weak breeze.

This is the time we are girding our loins, gathering information and plotting. The switch of functions to the organisation and scheming of what is to come, along with the intense outpouring of energy required to sustain the vicious intensifying of this devaluation means we adopt this near automatic state. You may not ever see this happen dependent on the nature of the narcissist you have become entangled with, but when you do, you should be aware that a storm is brewing and not just any old storm but a supercell storm of savage and damaging proportions.

This is a warning.



  1. In the end, I guess only those new to the blog can answer as to which was more damaging:

    Noise pollution and banter about things seemingly unrelated to narcissism, or the possibility of being labelled and their comments inviting responses that result in a thread like this.

    Not looking for responses, this is just something we can all reflect on.

      1. Lorelei
        This week? I am a narcissist every week according to some, although it is not pointed out to me directly (hmm…). It’s been asserted that HG keeps some Mids around for his amusement, and bidding. I don’t think there’s any truth to it, but I’m sure I’m being superior in stating that because surely they know better than HG (which seems a bit superior in itself but I’m sure I’m mistaken…). I just accept their false perception of me and marvel at how emotional thinking can affect the thought process.

        1. Correct HG, I don’t keep them around. They repeatedly come here. The only use they serve is to allow readers to observe and apply their learning. There are two in particular who repeatedly try and comment but they never make it past moderation. There’s a handful that continue to read, every so often they Hoover through email and comment. Very occasionally I will let a comment through so people can see how these types come back, most of the time I don’t allow them the air time, but they never disappear.

          1. Why can I not be on the blog for days and this thread continues…..

            Do I have to respond to all accusations, feedback or comment, no, does that mean I’m right, wrong, guilty, no, means I’m busy doing other things…
            Can other people have an opinion yes, more than welcome!
            Does it bother me, no
            Does it hurt me, no
            Will it change my mind, no

            Do I care what people think of me or about me, no

            Am I direct, yes. I have told someone I don’t like them yes.
            Do i deflect, i have already explained my self defence mechanism. I deflect possible threats of control.
            Am I hard to control you betcha, not because I say so, cos others tell me.

            Can you twist me into submission, no
            Unless it’s enjoyable…then yes.

            Not much more left to say really.

            Are we ready to move forward? Because final season of Vikings airs Dec 4 and that will require my full attention.

        2. NarcAngel
          It’s not just emotional thinking. We humans have a tendency to stubbornly hold on to our ideas and ignore evidence to the contrary. I don’t consider that emotion thinking, but I’m sitting at lunch with Pretzel n he disagrees with me. He says it does fall under emotional. So maybe I should let That idea go…..

          1. Windstorm, could you remind me, Is pretzel a greater? Do you believe what he is saying is correct about it being emotional thinking? This comment is causing me to rethink some things.

          2. Mercy,
            Yes he is a greater cerebral. We were at lunch and after I sent my comment he told me his reasoning. It made sense but was fairly convoluted. Basically what I took away from it was that all reasoning is either logical, emotional or a mix of the two. What we call stubborn or closed-minded actually has its roots in emotional thinking, and is often caused by different types of fear.

            He said he is much better attuned to spot emotional thinking than most people. I’d have to agree. He is spooky good at seeing into people’s real motives and agendas, especially if they are being devious or self-serving.

          3. Thank you windstorm. I thought I remembered he was a greater. After thinking on it further, I can see that stubborn could be emotional thinking. I have a daughter who’d rather chew her tongue off than admit she is wrong. I have told her sisters that I see her stubbornness as she’s ashamed to admit she caused a fight. So maybe pretzels description of fear and my description of shame is one in the same.

            PS I wanted to tell you I ordered a set of Mark Twain books for my grandson for Christmas. He’s probably a bit young for them but I think he will enjoy them in a few years. I know you love Mark Twain so I wanted to share.

          4. Mercy
            To me shame is just fear of other people’s negative opinions. I think we could probably break a lot of people’s negative behaviors down to some sort of fear. One of the points pretzel made was that people fail to recognize when the fears that are controlling their actions are irrational. That’s where emotional thinking comes in.

            He used as an example someone who is afraid to drive thru St Louis because they had a bad experience driving there (referring to me). As opposed to rational fears, like the fear of stepping into the street in front of an oncoming car.

            I do love Mark Twain! There’s an example of a very obnoxious narcissist, but he had a lot of insight into human nature and the ability to spin a great story. Two of the better traits of smart narcs!

          5. Windstorm, I remember you saying once that you enjoyed having intellectual conversation with him. I see now why. Most of us don’t experience that with a narcissist because we are dealing with mids and lessor’s. My mid was very intelligent but once the illusion was gone he saw no need to impress me with his intelligence. The conversations were no longer enjoyable.

          6. Metcy,
            I think a lot of it is that he is a cerebral, too. He gets a lot of his fuel by pointing out insights and understanding to those of his inner circle that we didn’t pick up on ourselves. If you get your fuel by wowing people with your wit and understanding, then obviously you must continue to have intellectual conversations with your fuel sources.

            Notice how he did the little negative dig by incorporating my fear of driving in St Louis as his example of emotional fear. He didn’t reference me specifically and if anyone else had been listening they would never have known. That’s a common occurrence when talking to him. When I made the appropriate response (which was to smile and say nothing ), I could feel his rush of pleasure. He has a perverse enjoyment of hiding insults in conversations that only the insulted party will pick up on. He also loves to make observations and double entendres that only those of us close to him will understand.

            Life is just a big game to him that he never ceases to play. I’m sure he continues to play with me because I’m smart enough to acknowledge his intelligence, yet dumb enough to constantly be suitably impressed.

          7. I see how that would be frustrating. The little digs that no one else would pick up on. Those kind of mind games for a person that is unaware of what they are dealing with could drive them to question their own sanity.

            Thank you for clarifying

          8. Hahaha. Make like Frozen and Let It Go………
            Just kidding. I remember you love that movie and song.

            I was being kind in only listing emotional thinking. I think there are other issues at play as well.

            So you’re both right. Each can pay for their own lunch to settle that bet lol.

          9. NarcAngel
            Yep. Favorite movie, favorite song.
            He had a pretty convincing argument. And I had no intention of paying for lunch. So he “won” the honor of that too! Ha, ha!

        3. NA
          For someone to assert with any kind of confidence that you might be a narcissist is ludicrous. It goes to show some people need to read more and apply the new found knowledge. I wish we could all step away from the labelling and just point out narcissistic tendencies (sense of entitlement, lack of accountability etc.) in a detached manner when we see them. I certainly never saw you portray any of those and your straightforward manner is only for the best.

        4. If we were narcissists we wouldn’t know it though! Yet, I feel pretty certain I know
          it since he told me I wasn’t? But now his empath test is in question! What a thread!

          1. Not by me—I’m going to go for frozen yogurt and the ocean salty breeze while you fix the cracks in the boat.

          2. Lorelei: Just because and individual questions something, such as a particular test, does not mean that your confidence nor my confidence nor anyone else`s confidence has to be automatically shaken. Especially when that someone has absolutely no experience with the test matter in question given at the level of HG Tudor, for example, and going as far as to say she or he does not agree with a certain test result without even ever seeing the test. So one does not even know what aspect of the test that person is even taking about. And neither does that person. For, example, Is it question number 7 or number 3? Or, have they not even seen nor taken the test, yet we are supposed to take their comment at face value, regarding said test? I have experiences and discussions with certain very intelligent people that create tests, even on a national level, as well as for powerful companines. And there are ways to implement traps and fail safes into tests to get around many people that try to control the results of a test. In fact, many test makers take those sort of individuals seriously, whether or not the person is deliberately trying to control the test result. And, we know that HG is a behavioral genius, your very own determination, with a very strong defense and survival mechanism, and he absolutely wants to know the truth about all matters great and small, including about himself, even when the truth is ugly or offensive and we have witnessed this about him, day after day and year after year, as well. So, if you take any test at all on this planet seriously and the results seriously, I suggest you put HG`s test in this category of an Excellent Test with Excellent Results. I do. And remember, he is State Of The Art in his field, so those that take his tests in particular, do not have the experience and knowledge regarding the subject matter, (much of which he has not even disclosed yet) to deceive him in this particular subject matter and dynamic, and arena of his proven expertise.

          3. Thoughtful Princess. The important thing is that I know what happened in my life and that is where the truth rests. I also know what’s happening now and I’m absolutely exuberant over some of my ideas. Everything contrary to that is noise. It’s 60+ degrees and absolutely dreamy where I am. It’s a good day for many reasons.

          4. HG, for the purpose of learning, could the empath test being in question, be considered a form of manipulation in order to deflect from the original issue at hand?

          5. Do you mean, somebody questioning the EDC could be a form of manipulation by deflecting?

          6. I’m better at explaining with examples. It’s only how I interpreted it and I’m wondering if my interpretation of deflection is correct.

            J accused L of being a narcissist

            L proved she was not a narcissist by revealing her ED test

            Other readers were upset that J refused to admit she was wrong

            One reader mentioned that the ED detector was questionable

            J then said yes, no test are perfect therefore L’s results are questionable.

            My interpretation was, IF j was a narcissist, using the excuse that the ED is questionable could be a way to deflect so that an admission of being wrong could be excused.

            Also keeping on mind that early in the conversation J said she would have no problems taking a ED test.

          7. I’m not sure what you mean Mercy—I know you asked HG but the question seems thoughtful.

          8. Lorelei: I admire your strength. I have said so, before. I admire the strength of many of the women on here. It is too much to ask for everyone to get along. And, it is not going to happen during this era. So, it is nothing to lose sleep about, in general. But, the strength is good to see, and it is good to see new people cutting their teeth and becoming stronger and stronger as well, and not running away. If I had one piece of advice to new people (which includes me, for myself as well, as I still have not hit the one year mark on here), it would be to try NOT to choose sides overly much on here among so strong a diverse group of many people, to really grow on here. And to try to learn from everyone, as much as possible. HG listens to ALL of us, and he is my role model, for me to do likewise. And, HG Tudor permits a lot of free speech on his site, which is not usual at all these days. So as we advance and speak out more, we may in fact say something that surprisingly (at times) to ourself, offends someone, or offends many, at any given time, and on any given day. This happens a lot when people are allowed to speak out more. Offenses happen. Something is always going to offend someone, and sometimes, even, you may say something or have a belief that actually offends the very person/s that you least thought would be offended. This happens on discussions about such a diversity of topics. That is why I would suggest, if we really want to make the best of the phenomenon of both this site and of HG Tudor`s brilliance, for us to be true to our own growth in particular and foremost, whether it be quick or slow or easy or difficult, to take on, and apply this remarkable information, personally. And to try NOT to be overly stuck on what some reader/s may think and then sadly become oddly stuck in our own personal growth, unnecessarily. And then, regrettably, to become worried about what you will say next on any given topic or article. Be and stay brave. Because, we each know more of the minute and secret details of the dynamic of our own life, whether we somewhat disclose much of it publicly, or not, like Lorelei is saying, including if we choose to disclose more of our dynamic privately within our personal consultations with HG Tudor. We have so many choices on here and a lot of freedom, so do not get yourself stuck: And, therein lies our true growth in applying all of HG Tudor`s amazing knowledge, found here on Narciste, and throughout his body of remarkable work, according to my observations and according to my take on it all.

          9. Thanks Princess—my entire life is in flux. I am hilariously rather reserved in my real life 75% of the time. When I went on vacation with a colleague she was worried I would be too uptight but she quickly changed her view after a few drinks. I’m often viewed as a perfectionist and rigid but I’m less of these things than perceived. It’s been an issue for my daughters that I’m trying to strategize dealing with. I’m shifting and becoming much less passive with things that bother me—I got very direct with a family member last night for behavior and it made me a bit nervous. (Not narcissism but some victim drama) I am ok with the same feedback. I’m not strong—I’m becoming more direct and not accommodating “uncomfortable” to the same extent previously in my life. HG is an excellent teacher indeed. As bananas as I’ve been I knew the work was excellent.

        5. NarcAngel, I am glad you are confident enough to brush these opinions off and stay true to who you are.

        6. NA

          Your comment seems to be filled with words taken from one of my comments and that you are insinuating something that I didn’t say. Nowhere did I ever say you were a narcissist. In fact you asked me point blank if I had included you in what I was saying – if I thought you were a narcissist, and I clearly said you were a mystery to me. A mixture of big sis and rowdy person. When you next asked if a sis rowdy person could be an empath, I simply stated that I didn’t know. I also said I didn’t presume to include anyone in my comment. But you keep referring back to it and implying that I was calling you a narc. Narc angel, you are the only one who has accused you of being a narc, as far as my comment goes. I did not.

          HG’s empath detector is accurate for empaths. There is no doubt.

          But telling a narcissist they are a narc is useless, as they can’t hear it or accept it. They aren’t the silly abusive narc’s that come on here from time to time. They are the ones I stated that can serve a purpose, even be helpful with comments. Again I did not name anyone and stated that I did not presume to include anyone specifically.

          I even mentioned in my reply to you that I noticed you seem to be unconvinced about yourself on different posts as if you were questioning it.

          Please stop projecting that onto me. And my use of that word is not an accusation, it is just the most accurate.

          1. Kel
            Those are two separate sentences and two separate issues. There have been many to suggest that I am a narcissist, so that was not pointed specifically at you, and a very few who have charged it directly. The second sentence does pertain to your comments. I asked you if a big sister rough houser could be an empath with narc traits and you replied that you didn’t know. Fair enough and I respected your answer. You also made the statement that HG keeps some Mids around for his amusement, bidding etc. I was surprised that you thought that and so thought others might as well. I considered the possibility. I asked directly if you considered me one of these Mids and you replied that if you did that it was a stupid question but did not answer yes or no.

            I made a comment about being confirmed by HG to be an S.E. I made it to give readers something to think about when weighing Julie’s comments as she mentioned that she identified with being one. That sometimes we can come across as narcissists when we are not. I never identified Julie as being a narcissist and pointed that out a few times. Some people failed to recognize that I was actually giving Julie the benefit of the doubt and that given time, we might see other indicators of an empath. It was you who followed with the comment about card-carrying SE’s that are all me me me while saying they are nothing special. Seemed pretty clear that was directed at my comment. So far off the mark of my intent but I accept that’s how you see it.

            HG may not tell a narcissist that they are a narcissist, but I doubt he tells them they’re an empath. Your comment still suggests that you still believe he keeps some around other than those who appear time to time, and since you said you were unsure about me that could include me.

            I am not unconvinced about what I am and don’t know what comments you are referring to that suggest that. There are plenty of people who may not like me and find my comments annoying, but as I pointed out previously – annoyance does not equal narcissist. what I got from your comments is that you think I’m superior in stating that I am an SE and are annoyed by my comments about it, and that you might suspect I am a narcissist but that I would ultimately reject it, so you say there is no point in telling me instead of being direct and just saying yes or no.

            I am not projecting Kel. I read your words and that’s what I’m hearing.

          2. 1. I do not keep Mid Range Narcissists around on this blog for my amusement. I explained the position yesterday as to my treatment of them in this place. I am repeating this to ensure there is no misunderstanding.
            2. NA is a SE as per the ED.
            3. I do not tell a narcissist that they are a narcissist, there is no point (for reasons explained many times on this blog). I do not tell them they are an empath.

          3. NA

            I answered your candid questions honestly, as you requested. I was not implying anything and I do not spend anytime wondering about it. I said honestly that you’re a mystery as you seem like a big protective sis but then a rough house other times. Whether you can be that as an empath with narcissist traits, I answered I don’t know- that’s why it’s a mystery to me I guess- also why ask me what I think about you? I don’t think about you, and it’s not my place to.

            I did Not say HG keeps mids around for his amusement!

            I said they can serve a purpose and even be helpful on comments. I’m not a black and white thinker, I see the good and bad in all of us, I’ve got nothing against the color gray. I can like narcissists, it’s just not healthy to get too close to them.

            What I was disputing about super empath is that the high narcissism an empath has does not make them a narcissist. That the only time any empath comes close to being like a narcissist, is if they have a supernova. I said an empath with high narcissistic traits is closer to being a Normal than they are to being a narcissist. My point was stop using super empath as an excuse for bad behavior- to agree with you- and to carry it further to explain the high narcissism in an empath is used for good purposes such as in disciplining a child as HG said before, or even in having pride.

            I read in your comments that you are indicating I’m calling you a narcissist. I just wanted to make it clear that I never did.