You Are Being Conned

 

 

YOU ARE BEING CONNED

 

Once upon a time. The Princess and the Pea. Prince Charming. Snow White. Pretty Woman. Barbie and Ken. The Waltons. Hug you from behind. Breakfast in bed. Picking you up in the rain. Glimpsing you from a train and running after you. The Fabulous Baker Boys. Roman Holiday. Bouquets. Surrounded by your loving family as you pass away. Snow at Christmas. Remembered birthdays. The Little House on the Prairie. Beauty and the Beast. A Room With a View. City breaks. Walking in the foam. Holding hands. Growing old together. Gone With the Wind. The white knight. Crazy For You. The Passion. Spooning in bed. Monogamy. Rosanna. Love Me Tender. Truly Madly Deeply. A candlelit bath. The Best. Gift on the pillow. Save the Best For Last. Impromptu lunch. Dancing cheek to cheek. Someday my prince will come. Red roses. White roses. Opening doors. Up Where We Belong. Romeo and Juliet. Holding your hair. You’re the First, My Last, My Everything. Writing ‘I Love You’ in the steamed up mirror. Endless Love. I Think I Love You. Dedicating a song on the radio. Father Figure. The Power of Love. Fairytale wedding. Carved initials on a tree inside a heart. Giving you the last Rolo. Love conquers all. Love will save the day. Love’s young dream. Love is a many splendored thing. Writing poems. Love notes in a lunch box. A message in the sand. Till death do us part. Together forever. Bright young things. Never Tear Us Apart. Soulmate. Other half. My Heart Will Go On. Bridget Jones’ Diary. I’ll Stand By You. Children. A Whole New World. Paris in the spring time. Lazing in a hammock together. A log cabin by the lake. The Notebook. The Spider man kiss. Notting Hill. Rose and Jack. Letting you sleep in. Bella and Edward. Latika and Jamal. Dirty Dancing. Leading the dancing. Remembering anniversaries. In sickness and in health. When Harry Met Sally. Synchronised orgasms. Sex in the morning. Sex in the evening. Still having sex after all these years. Fidelity. Eyes only for you. An Officer and a Gentleman. Isla and Rick. Letting you first. Knowing you hate spiders. Viola and William. Stardust. Walking in the snow together. Walking through leaves together. Edward Scissorhands. Just the Way You Are. My Girl. Annie’s Song. Matching tattoos. Wearing a wedding band. I Will Always Love You. When a Man Loves a Woman. I Don’t Wanna Miss a Thing. Love is blind. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. The perfect match. Our love is predestined. It was written in the stars above. Love at first sight. Mr/Mrs Right, “My one and only,” “man/woman of my dreams,” “match made in heaven,” “love of my life,” “my true love,” “made for each,” “my perfect match,” “I met the love of my life,” “I knew this was the one.”  “We were meant for each other.” “instant connection,” “clicked right away,” “chemistry at first sight,” “hit it off right away,” “experienced immediate attraction,” “instant rapport,” “completely hit it off,” “it was magical,” “you put a spell on me” . Love is a river that drowns the tender reed. The perfect house. The country idyll. Home is where the heart is. Wuthering Heights. Jayne Eyre. Twilight. The Hunger Games. Gabriel’s Inferno. Water for Elephants. Warming the bed first. Investigating a bump in the night. Holding you during a storm. Never being taken for granted. Perfection. Having it all. The Happy Ever After.

False promises and unrealistic ideals created by them.

A gateway to the false promised land, to the unrealistic ideal life offered and exploited by us.

Resorting to self-destructive and addictive behaviours in order to compensate for these failings and disappointments by becoming entangled with us again and again and again. That’s you.

Who is to blame?

385 thoughts on “You Are Being Conned

  1. MommyPino says:

    Thank you Getting There! You are so sweet!! Thank you for being my wonderful friend here as well. ❤️

    You’re so right. It was their definition of love and to then it was real even if it was about control and fuel. They also don’t have empathy so when you tell them the things that they do that isn’t loving they can’t put themselves to understand how it affects you but their instinct makes them feel attacked and so they go on the defense and asserting control. A person with empathy would at least consider what you are saying even if they are being hurt or feeling attacked.

    I think that it was a blessing that the guy showed his true colors right away! I’m glad nothing happened. It sounds like he is a narcissist but even if he is not he still sounds very shallow and self absorbed. Someone like that would not be good for an Empathic person. I doubt that he has changed or will ever change. I know you’re just kidding about looking him up but you definitely deserve a good man.

    You’re totally right about siblings and I think that we’re not doing a bad job in terms of that. It’s one of the reasons why even though my husband is highly narcissistic in some aspects, I’m still sure that he is not a narcissist because of how he treats his kids equally. No Golden Child whatsoever. He also doesn’t compare them. Our kids love each other very much even though they fight a lot.

    About the push and pull you are absolutely correct, it also only happens to me with men that I am attracted to now that I think about it. The crazy glue is like the thing that makes my brain hazy or something. You’re right, it is hard to explain. Even with my own mom I didn’t have the crazy glue. The glue was my obligation as a daughter and because I will always care about her wellbeing as the woman who gave birth to me and raised me but there was no crazy hazy brain obsession element.

    I think that it is wonderful that you are able to express yourself when you are frustrated about something. That might be a factor adding to your resiliency. I am not always upfront. It takes several provocations before I would react in a similar that you do. But when I react like you do I usually find it cathartic. It is usually healthier to be expressive than to have bottled up emotions.

    1. Getting There says:

      Hello, Mommypino!

      I wanted to share this video as this reminded me of our discussion about the empath starting at a young age.
      https://youtu.be/y62veCinCvc
      This is such a cute video and good advice!

      I can understand how you have to learn to share your internal you with others, outside of the journal to God. When you were raised by your mom, I am sure you weren’t able to freely express your thoughts and feelings without repercussions of some sort. It’s great that you are learning to share all of you, not just the happy and agreeable you! Are you able to practice on your husband? I am still learning to balance in sharing. In some ways I need to share more of what is internal, other times I need to shut up or learn how to say what I need nicer. I do like your journal idea!

      I was recently hoovered. A friend commented in response to my sharing. My initial reaction was to correct her and say “narcissists don’t feel that way.” I didn’t and later realized she had a point. His conscious matched what she was saying so while she wasn’t fully correct, she wasn’t wrong in what she thought. I think I have more embraced that, when the other person cannot treat you in a loving and compassionate way, that I cannot determine if a person’s love is real but still recognize it isn’t the love for me.

      I understand the connection due to familial obligation, of sorts, with your mom and also your sister for a good amount of your life. Family bonds are hard to sever. For me it would be more difficult if it were a family member and not romance who was a narcissist. I think the heart breaks and then we are told there are more fish in the sea, so we have options after the heartbreak starts to heal. There is still hope for love in the future, cueing “I Will Survive.” When it is a family member who is not a distant relative, I can see that being a different and more difficult battle.

      You’re right, the crazy glue feeling should be a red flag!! The application for me is like a roller coaster it seems. The ride to the top of the first hill is slow and steady. It’s not full force and it can stop with minor adjustment if there is a break in the ride at that moment. It’s when I invest all of me does it equal to falling down that first hill into all of those twists and turns. There’s no stopping with the crazy glue and the push and pull. It’s wild and at times I am able to think “why am I doing this again.” As long as the ride stops, then in every step away is a stronger step of recovery from the impact. I look forward to finding a Lazy River relationship instead.

      Are you having a good summer so far?

    2. Getting There says:

      Hello, Mommypino!

      I just responded to this and cannot see it pending. I am hoping it appears. If not, I will try again tomorrow.

      1. Getting There says:

        Nevermind, Mommypino, I am trying again tonight. Patience is not always my strong trait. I apologize if both post!

        I hope you have had a great beginning of summer so far!

        I wanted to share this with you. I saw it and immediately thought of your idea of empaths developing early in life. I think this girl is definitely on track to be an outspoken empath. I think this is a very cute video and great advice! The written words don’t always match what she is saying but it was good to have them too.
        https://youtu.be/y62veCinCvc

        I understand why you are learning to share more of the internal as I am sure with the mom and childhood you had any sharing of your feelings or thoughts, other than pleasing, would have had repercussions or been ignored. It’s great that you are learning to share more of you, the less happy or pleasing part! Are you able to practice with your husband? I am still learning to balance. I should share more of the internal, and I should learn to either shut up or be nicer in what I do share with my words or looks. It’s not an easy balance.

        I can understand your feelings of your connections with your mom and your sister for most of your life. It is my personal opinion that it is harder to break the connection having a family member that is not a distant relative as the narcissist in your life versus that of a romantic love. For me when it is romantic love, the heart breaks but there is always hope of a better relationship, cueing “I Will Survive.”

        I’m glad you picked up that I was joking about finding out if that guy is single and has changed. I hope he is happy with his life.

        I was recently hoovered. My friend made an interesting comment in response to the situation. Initially I wanted to correct her and say “that is not how a narcissist feels.” I didn’t. I later realized she isn’t wrong because her description is how he feels consciously, but it isn’t the full story. I think I am more embracing the idea that, when a person cannot treat you with compassion and care, it isn’t whether the love is real or not, it isn’t the love for me. I think that helps me more take ownership of my feelings and wants and make it less about what the other person wants or feels about me.

        You’re right that the crazy glue should be a red flag!! I don’t know if your experience is the immediate application of crazy glue or another way. I think for me it is like a roller coaster ride. At the beginning, it is steady and slow. If things break down at that point, it will take minor adjustment but no real effect. When I invest fully then that is when we have reached the top of the first hill to fall fast and go through the loops and upside down. There’s no stopping the crazy glue at that time. It’s wild and crazy and I find myself saying “why am I doing this” at times. If the ride can stop, then every step away from the ride is strengthening in decreasing the impact of the crazy glue. I look forward to my lazy river relationship.

        Fingers cross this one posts as I am hoping for sleep now. LOL

        1. mommypino says:

          Hello Getting There,

          For some reason the video wouldn’t play and is said to be restricted but I looked it up and saw the cute Asian toddler giving her mom advice. I hope that’s the one you sent me. It’s super adorable and I almost had tears from it. I chuckled with the tone of her mom’s response to her, “Okay!” and then mumbled, “Oh my god.” Such a wise little empath. I love that in the end her mom thanked her. Such a lovely moment for both of them and I am sure that the mom’s heart is welling up with love and happiness.

          You’re right about my situation with my mom when I was young. But unfortunately even my journal was ruined by her when she confronted and mocked me about the entries that I wrote in my journal. She admitted to me that she has been reading it and even showed it to my cousin who visited and some neighbors. She didn’t tell me that until she got mad at some of the things that I wrote in the journal so she had to confront me about it. I’m sure that you see some comments here from empaths where their appetite for some things disappeared after their entanglement such as their love for music or some other hobbies. So I lost my appetite for having a diary and many times since then I have tried to have a journal but I could not stay consistent anymore and I keep forgetting to write on it. I used to have such a strong connection with God through that journal and I even had all of my wishes or prayers in that journal answered and at that time I felt like even if my journal was just a cheap notebook it became sanctified because of how I used it to reach out to God but for some reason it feels like I have been forever changed and I couldn’t go back to that place anymore. But I am not giving up yet and maybe I will not be the same again but I will be able to have a deep relationship with God gain but in a different nature. Right now it’s not as deep as it used to be but I am always going to be a believer but sometimes I am frustrated with myself because I know that my relationship with God is not the same anymore.

          I am able to practice with my husband and I keep on learning. When we were first starting to date I didn’t see any reason to be defensive so I didn’t need to speak up. But as his daughters’ behaviors got worse I became very angry and defensive and my reactions were to instantly go for the jugular. But now I am mellowing down and I believe it’s because of my education here, my NC with his daughters and ex wife and because I don’t interact with my mom anymore. He has complained when I went for the jugular right away and have asked me to pause for a little bit.

          I think that it’s very magnanimous of you to have that perspective of understanding them. I agree with you. My mom believed that she has done her job by protecting me from evil people and she was correct in some perspective. I think that it is admirable that you didn’t take your friend’s opinion personally after you trusted your friend in sharing your situation. Sometimes it is scary to give our honest feedback or advice and sometimes as humans we miss the mark and fail in understanding what is really going on but the intent to hurt is not there. I try to keep that in mind whenever I feel misunderstood by a friend. But it is a different story if the friend is a narcissist then maybe the misunderstanding was a passive aggressive way of hurting you. I had a college friend who was heavily pregnant but the dad was not going to marry her so she was depressed. I was giving her advice over Facebook as we have already graduated at that time and I was still living with my mom and was not allowed to meet with people except for me to go to work. She told me that she went on a roller coaster ride and she had some bleeding after the ride. I reacted out of frustration and got mad at her for endangering her baby’s life. I told her that she is going to be a mother now and she now has responsibility for her baby and she cannot always just think of herself anymore. I didn’t insult her but taking the toddler’s words, my mean was high and I should have been more steady to the ground about the same level as my heart. I felt bad and she stopped writing to me. I did not chase her because I understood that she had the right to avoid me for hurting her feelings. But then the baby was born and when I commented congratulations she emailed me and thanked me for being honest and she said that what I told her made her reflect that she should think about her baby and not always about herself.

          My crazy glue is very similar to your roller coaster comparison. I think for me it is easier to pull away during the beginning of the roller coaster ride. It is best to slow things down and I think slowing things down is one of the best ways to weed out narcissists because if the fuel output is too slow, I think narcissists would have to find another victim. With me and my husband, I was the one who wanted to make things faster. My attachment style was not healthy and I totally immediately reserved my whole self to him after our first date and I immediately rejected any ideas of flirting with any other guy or dating anyone else. I was already fantasizing about being married to him and making him happy. I was totally lucky that the narcissists here are mostly too lame for me to be interesting and I ended up with a normal because I was so amazingly vulnerable at that time.

          So far we have been very busy with yard work. My husband has been digging the roots out of our lawn and we are hoping to be able to have a nice lawn next year. Our AC system is not working and we’re going to have it checked tomorrow. I’m so excited that this is my son’s last week in school because I can finally teach him whatever I want to at the pace that I want to which is much slower and much more full of play. How is yours going so far?

          By the way, have you seen Maleficent 2? I think that Maleficent is a narcissist although in the story she was capable of true love, she’s too narcissistic for me. It was painful for me to see Aurora having to deal with Maleficent and another narcissistic MIL.

          1. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            It just dawned on my that my story about my pregnant classmate might seem weird. I wasn’t really sure how heavily pregnant she was as I didn’t see her at that time but I believe that she was beyond the first trimester and if I am to guess now she might be around five months at that time. It happened around 2004-2005 so my memory is murky. But she is tall and it was her first pregnancy so her belly was probably not big enough to be too obvious so they allowed her to go on the ride. And I can’t really remember if it was a roller coaster ride but I think it was with the way I remember how I felt when she told me about it and how it caused her to have bleeding. Also I just remembered that it wasn’t Facebook that I was using to talk to her at that time, it was Friendster. That was before MySpace. I didn’t have Facebook until I went here in the US and attended a university because at that time it was exclusive to those with college email addresses. Glad I was able to clarify that before I might get fact checked lol. I hope that your week is going lovely so far. 😊🦋

          2. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I’m sorry to both HG and you for the multiple posting! That was a lot to read unnecessarily due to my lack of patience.

            I’m sorry the link didn’t work but am glad you were able to find it. She’s such a smart girl! Her facial expressions added to the points. Her mom’s reactions were great and also showed that this wasn’t an act. I wonder what she said to her dad. LOL. I wonder if there are empaths who have never been negatively impacted by a narcissist. I hope so!!

            That was absolutely horrible that your mom read your journal and so much worse that she shared it! Your lack of wanting to journal again makes perfect sense as there is now a sense of betrayal and hurt attached to it. If you want to journal, I hope you can find that your family is one you can trust and that you can work through the anxiety to be able to journal. I don’t journal. I have heard it is cathartic but it isn’t for me. I pay attention to the mistakes and second guess what I am writing.
            I understand about the distance in your relationship with God. I hope you can find a way to have the relationship you want and that your mom doesn’t get to continue to steal that from you. I have struggled in not having the type of relationship with God that I hear others have. Then I heard about two people and their relationship with God. One was a man who committed a sin but didn’t feel bad about it. He ended up sharing, though, that he felt bad about not feeling bad. The other was King David and how he could be found being upset with God. Hearing about those two changed me and now I work on the relationship at the level I can. There are times I tell God that I don’t appreciate something that He could have control over. There are times I tell him that I am sorry but I am choosing, for an unknown reason, to keep Him distant at this time. I think just being open with Him is what will help. My friends joke about my challenging God. Maybe those I challenge on earth shouldn’t feel bad as they aren’t the only ones.

            I’m glad you have the ability to trust your husband and practice. I can see not having a voice and then having one being like starving from food and then being placed in front of a buffet. In this case, going for the jugular. The reaction may not make sense for that one occasion but makes sense when everything is buried and wants to come out. That’s great that you provided a voice that your friend needed to hear and one that protected her baby! That’s good that you allowed her her space but then congratulated her. It showed that you didn’t judge her and she could trust you. That’s a great friend! Great use of the toddler’s words!

            My friend is wonderful! She would prefer I not respond to the hoovers and will say so. I have shared this site with her but she doesn’t come here. Her advice matches HG’s but she has a different view on the situation. It’s interesting how different views equal same result.

            When I first start dating, I keep them at bay but I don’t go out with others at the same time. I put my effort to see if this is worth trying for. I watched a video from a relationship advice guy who said not to give boyfriend privileges too early. It makes sense. That’s funny and great that the narcissists near you were so pathetic. In “Sitting Target” it talks about what attracts different types of narcissists to different people. I wonder if there is a similar situation for empaths as I find many here are not worth the interest before I figure out what they are.

            Your lawn sounds like it looks beautiful with all of the work and effort you put into it! We are done with school thank goodness! Now it is a balance of working and trying to keep him interested in more than video games.

            I haven’t seen either movies yet. I saw the preview of the second one and thought both moms seemed narcissistic just in the short clip.

            Did you see the America’s Got Talent video of the gentleman who spent 37 years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit? After that try out, Simon Cowell has become an Ambassador to the Innocents Project as it had such an impact on him. I have no doubt Simon is a narcissist but that is amazing of him. Also he was the only one who got up and hugged the contestant. I don’t know what he is like at home but that kind of compassion shown outside just makes it hard to think of him in a bad way.

          3. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            No worries or apologies needed to me for the multiple postings.💕. I have done the same thing many times.

            Thank you for your advice. They are all wonderful. I had a lot of thoughts and ideas after reading them but was unable to reply until now because life had been very hectic and busy at home. Our daughter broke our TV because she threw a wooden block to it and broke the screen. Our new TV will arrive today or tomorrow. But I had been busier keeping the kids entertained. We also had some repairs being done at home. Then I also found out the CDC guidelines on going back to school which discouraged me from sending my son back to school next school year. I have been shopping and comparing homeschooling curriculums and reading about the experiences of people who use them. I am still hoping that he can go back to school so I have not made the purchases yet. It is sad because he had been saying how he misses school, his teacher and principal, his friends, the janitor, the cafeteria, the school lines and riding on the school bus during field trips.

            I believe that there have been a lot of empaths in my family line (my dad’s) that have never been impacted by narcissists. My aunt (my dad’s cousin) was one that I have met in person. Her personality was very much like HG’s Sophie. Just a very sweet, positive and nonjudgmental person. She married a normal who was a local artist. The guy (my uncle) became very close friends with my dad too. He was a very nice guy. My dad used to privately and jokingly comment on his cousin’s cute and sweet ditziness and sometimes when she made those sweet positivity comments my dad and her husband just look at each other and shake their heads or shrug their shoulders.

            Thank you for your wonderful thoughts about the journal and relationships with God. They were very profound and you are totally right. I remember a preacher describing the different relationships that people in the Bible had with God. One challenged God like you do and even wrestled with God. One blindly obeyed God without question even to the point of sacrificing his own innocent son. One felt like God’s golden child but still committed a sin by stealing an innocent person’s wife and causing that man to die in battle. You have totally inspired me and I think that I will explore what kind of relationship feels most honest and right for me.

            I’m happy to know that you have a wonderful friend in real life. I agree it is interesting how different approaches can arrive at the same solution. I guess that even confirms more how accurate HG’s information is. Just like some mathematical problems where you can double check your answer if you solve it differently and still arrive at the same answer. But I think the information here has given us short cuts in identifying things faster and with less chances of errors. It’s like the Excel for dealing with narcissists.

            Our lawn looks terrible right now. Roots from our pine trees have grown under our lawn and it has made the lawn uneven and killed a lot of our grass. The roots that he dug up were so big that they almost look like trees too. It’s a good thing that we have a tractor so we didn’t have to hire anyone. Although it has been very fun with the kids to ride with their dad in the tractor while he was using it to dig and pull the roots and also they have so much fun digging all of the dirt with my garden shovels. They even pay with their monster trucks on the dirt.

            I hope that you and your son are able to do fun things to do together. Does he like dancing? There is a cool streaming channel Gonoodles where it is like a Zumba channel for kids. My kids and I occasionally play some videos and try to follow along. Their favorite so far is the chicken dance with Maximo. But they have many cool dance videos too for older kids.
            Does he like arts and crafts? It might be fun for both of you to do craft together or paint together. Maybe even cook together.

            I agree that Simon Cowell is 💯a narcissist. But I have a feeling that he is an aware one. I’m not sure if I’m remembering it correctly but did he have an affair and impregnated his friend’s wife? But I think that he is aware and so he totally has very high cognitive empathy and he can control and choose which person to degrade and how to do it in a way that makes people hate him. I think that he’s a very smart person and he can read people very well. I also don’t think that he is a MR who is concerned about appearing good. I think that he does good things when he chooses to, in his terms if it suits what he wants but the driving aim is not the same as those of Mid Rangers.

          4. Getting There says:

            Oh, Mommypino, I’m sorry you felt that you wanted to make sure the details lined up! I understand that feeling so well and do that often!

            I honestly didn’t pay attention. I originally thought, and wrote before deleting, that roller coasters don’t normally allow pregnant women but I know that pregnant women need to say they are pregnant. I’m not judging your friend. It would have been easy to think “what harm is one ride.” There’s also the fact that different places have different rules for pregnant women. I learned that when I was pregnant and the advice of alcohol during pregnancy.

            I had MySpace! I don’t remember Friendster but I have not been a social media person.

            Please know that I don’t try to figure out where you are wrong. I enjoy our discussions and sharing.

          5. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,
            First of all I hope that you and your son are safe wherever you may be from all of the chaos that are currently going on. It is so disturbing and I know that it is affecting you as well as an empath. It’s such a sad and complicated situation. I believe that those cops are psychopaths and I believe that the violent rioters are psychopaths or narcissists as well. I think that people need to start looking at people’s behaviors being driven by the psychological factor and I think that education on that would lessen the division significantly.

            Thank you for affirming that you don’t judge what I write. For some reason I just felt like I had to clarify the details in my story not really because of you but because someone else might read it and get confused.

            Friendster was really big in my home country. And then when Facebook started to take off in my country Friendster was forgotten and then it closed.

          6. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            Oh no! I’m sorry about your TV! I hope it has been beautiful weather at least! That’s cute that your children have had so much fun with the yard work!

            I haven’t paid attention to the CDC’s guidelines for schools. You have inspired me to look. We have heard from the school that they are waiting for further guidance. Considering all that is happening, I do believe the virus is now further back in many minds. I wonder if the CDC will pay attention to the next month and alter their suggestions based on the impact with the virus spread. It’s a good idea in looking at options. I don’t have my son in anything right now and will continue as long as there is risk. Otherwise if there is a safe way to do school, he needs to go and socialize. I have family who homeschools and they are a part of a program where they take some courses with other homeschool families.
            I think the ability to have a choice that is best for your family is great!

            What is going on is sad. I can’t but have hope that this will be a turning point for positive change! My son and I have had conversations about how we treat other people. While I don’t want him to be an empath, I do want him to have empathy for all. I don’t think this will end hatred but hopefully a turning point of no longer accepting certain behaviors. There was just a peaceful protest here! The cops showed solidarity in their own way with the protestors. I have seen videos where Sheriffs are marching as well. Maybe it is facade or real, either way it is good! I hope things are peaceful there! Are you addressing it with your kids?

            I think that is great that you will find what is true for you in regards to your relationship with God!! I know it can be disconcerting when it isn’t up to standards we hear others have or think we are supposed to. I used to get upset that people would say “God is telling me…” God doesn’t talk to me so I thought there must be something wrong. It took me awhile to realize that that isn’t my relationship with Him. Mind you I am sure He might try to, but I don’t shut up inside to give Him that opportunity. I believe what a preacher I follow said about God knowing us before we were born, our failures and our personality. He still allowed us life knowing that. A relationship with God is like a relationship with others who are not narcissists, it’s baby steps and acceptance.

            Thank you for sharing about your aunt! That gives me hope that there are empaths who don’t have their traits used against them!

            Is Simon Cowell a Greater? I will need to pay attention more to how he behaves compared to others I know. Yes, his girlfriend was the wife of a friend’s. Most people would not be able to bounce back from that kind of situation but it didn’t impact him. People want him to like them and are less concerned about the other judges even though they have equal power in voting. I have read that him having a son has changed him. I wonder if the fuel from having his extension has changed how he operates. Along with the new role of the Innocence Project, he supports people against bullying.

            I like your math comment! Hopefully very soon I will find someone where I won’t need that kind of advice!

            I used to have Facebook but now only have Instagram. I don’t like the drama on Facebook and I would feel badly if I blocked people I know. On Instagram I just have the issue of strangers wanting to be friends but can’t be honest. I just want to advise them on where I caught their lies but instead choose it is in my best interest to not help them.

            I’m glad that you know I don’t judge or look for fault with you and that you can talk freely! I really do understand that need to clarify though and I do it often. On Instagram I delete some comments I make on public sites if I think it can be misunderstood or cause confusion.

          7. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I noticed that I had typos regarding Simon Cowell. I meant to say that he is able to degrade people while still being likable and I think that it is something that requires a lot of cognitive empathy skills to be able to pull off. And when he has hurt someone’s feelings he knows what to do afterwards and how to do it properly so that his façade is maintained and get the fuel too. I don’t know for sure if he is a Greater but he does have a huge matrix, he doesn’t appear to obsess about how others perceive him but we he decides to ingratiate himself towards someone he is very effective at charming them. And like you said, people want him to like them. I agree that in the competition when he gives a competitor a praise the competitor seem much happier than from the praises of the other judges. My UMR BIL almost has the same bad ass kind of demeanor but he hasn’t reached Simon Cowell’s level of not giving a damn if he is liked or not. Even with Hillary Clinton who is an UMR, she also appears to still want to be liked. But I don’t see it in Simon Cowell. I have also not seen Simon Cowell lose his cool in public. He seems to have a very good control of himself. But it is possible that I just haven’t seen it, maybe he has lost his cool and I’m just not aware of it.

            I hope that our school district will not follow the guidelines. So far it’s not looking promising as last Monday was the last day of school and we just drove in front of the school and we were not allowed to leave the car and they just handed his Spring pictures to him while we returned a library book to them and they were all wearing masks and his teacher had a little chat with him through the car window and that was it. If they will follow the CDC guidelines, I will just homeschool and have scheduled regular playdates where none of the kids will have to wear masks and they can touch each other while they play. We also got an email from their gymnastics school that they are told that they can open but they would have to follow the guidelines but the guidelines made them decide to not open. But I agree that developments can happen where things will be different when that time comes.

            It is wonderful that the cops in your area have shown solidarity with the protesters and that it was a peaceful protest. I haven’t been discussing current events to my kids that much yet. I have to say I am not sure how to approach it. My mom didn’t have filters with me as a kid and I have been aware of stuff like this as early as I could remember. My husband’s belief is that the innocence of the children must be protected and I have been adopting that approach. We have not had race discussions with the kids yet. My husband is against it. He said that it is something that the kids can learn about when they are older but right now he wants the kids to enjoy not paying attention to races and even though they see that people look different, it has no meaning to them. My daughter’s godmother is Mexican and has dark skin while my son’s godmother is a Filipina and also has dark skin. My kids have never asked anything or commented anything about it and they are always excited to see both of them. Sometimes we were in public and my son would chat with strangers of different race and him and my daughter do not show any difference in their interactions. In my home country where there is almost no diversity in skin and hair color little kids look like they see aliens when they see a person of a different race, it is not racism but just an innocent reaction to seeing someone who looks different which happens rarely, especially in the provinces where I spent some parts of my childhood. But I have been reading books that show black characters such as John Henry, When God Made You and The Snowy Day. In a few years I will be talking about current events more with them and tying in the values that they already learned. What age did you start discussing these things with your son? How did you approach it?

            I felt the same way when people say that God talked to them. I even had a roommate here in the US who can actually hear God talk to her. I was probably 75% skeptical and gave 25% allowance that maybe she can really hear God. I have always been very skeptical with people who say that they have visions or God talks to them through their dreams etc. because my mom used to say those things. My mom, to feel important and superior, would tell people that she was a prophet and that God was giving her visions through her dreams. We had all kinds of statues of Jesus and Mary where we lived and we always prayed at 6 am and 6pm kneeling in front of the altar with candles and incense. Many times I would wake up at midnight from the noise of her praying a Latin prayer from a booklet with candles looking so distraught and angry and then reading some passages from the Psalms about God destroying the wicked and the fools. She would sometimes burn a picture of her enemy is she was able to steal one or burn strands of their hair which she stole from their hair brush. Before she died she asked me to buy a packing tape because she made a sign welcoming God’s arrival to pick her and take her to the US because I am unable or unwilling to take her to the US with me. She was going to tape it at the front of her apartment, which was embarrassing to the neighbors but she was dying so I went and bought it for her but she was already dead when I came back from the store and laundromat. So I can’t help but be skeptical but I do believe that some people really are special and have so much goodness in them that God performs miracles through them. But I am usually on the skeptical side before I even learned about narcissism, there was a pattern in my mom’s Christian beliefs that I have been looking for to weed out the fake ones. And now I know it’s a variety of narcissism.

          8. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            Thank you for sharing about your time with your mom! Even in her death bed she couldn’t miss an opportunity to dig at you, geez whiz! How do you feel that you weren’t at her bed when she died?

            I have an empath friend who was diagnosed with a stage 4 cancer which has a higher percentage rate of not surviving. She said God told her she would be fine and she went through all the treatment with faith, positiveness, and trust. When she was around during her treatment it was like being in a praise session. She is in remission for years now where doctors tell her often how surprised they are at her recovery.
            I know many narcissists who have had faith but their faiths have not been the same type or strength of faith as the other. None of them that I know of sought God to take care of their enemies as it seems your mom tried. I guess that while that is a misunderstanding of God it shows a strong trust in His power. I wonder why she relied on His powers. As for the ones I know, I think the Christians all believed that there is no question that they will end up in Heaven.

            The more we talk about Simon the more convinced I am that he is a Greater. He appears comfortable in his belief of his power without the need to prove himself. I wonder what he was like before he made it to the point he is at.

            I have spent a lot of time on Instagram watching videos people post, looking at pictures, and reading lots of comments. I couldn’t believe that some people took offense to an artist drawing Jesus as a black man. There are pictures of people happily posing as the cop with his knee on George Floyd’s neck. Some people have sick hearts and heads.
            My son has a narcissist father so he has heard a lot since he was little about subjects he should not. When he was little he didn’t know notice any differences as your children. Then he noticed different languages before he noticed any other differences. He doesn’t judge and I like to think he will always be like that. Many months ago he heard a friend’s mom tell me how some local schools are with African American children. I know he was listening but he didn’t comment or ask questions. During the current protests, I haven’t been sure what to share nor do I know all he knows. We have talked about the protests in a vague way as well as reminder that everyone is equal and should be treated as such. Otherwise we haven’t discussed too many details. I wonder if I am setting him up to not be able to empathize when talking with his friends in school in the fall. I don’t know the right answer of the right age as we do want to protect them but not all of their friends have that luxury and should they know to empathize and listen or be surprised? I wish I knew the best answer. I will teach my son about the hate geared toward one of our cultures as preparation but I want to wait until he is much older. I wish all children could be protected from hate and hurt. It’s not fair some have to worry about it so young! I hope their generation is much better with each other than ours.

            It’s great that you are developing your plan for the fall but keeping things open if schools change the rules before it starts! It really seems people think Corona is over which I am thinking will impact decisions in the future.
            I’m hoping we will start social distance playdates soon! Have you heard that the Congo is fighting Corona, another round of Ebola, and measles? It’s sad how much people suffer! I wish I knew how to help!

          9. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There, I was not aware of the plight in Congo. That’s absolutely terrible that they have to face all of that. I am not very informed about their country’s current state but I am assuming that they are not a wealthy country. I hope that they will get help in tackling all of those problems. I feel bad that countries like that will likely get less help because the economies of wealthy countries who usually help them are now down and suffering as well. But I am sure that Europe and us will step up to help and I hope that we will be able to do enough.

            That is really silly to be offended of Jesus being depicted as a black man. It is an art depiction so it should be treated as such. None of us really know how Jesus looked like. When the Spaniards came to the Philippines they brought statues of Jesus and Mary that have dark skin. We still have those statues and a lot of Filipinos believe they are miraculous such as the Black Nazarene statue in Manila. They were originally carved by a Mexican in Acapulco and brought over to the Philippines to ingratiate the Catholic religion to the Filipinos in order to conquer the country. I had a Filipino professor who believed that they were purposely depicted as black in order to ingratiate the religion to the dark skinned Filipinos at that time. Many artworks in Europe depict Jesus and Mary as Italians when they were actually Hebrews. I will admit though that I am offended when I see artworks depicting Jesus having a sex orgy or with a gun pointed at someone etc. with the aim of provoking and disrespecting. But I ignore them and often don’t say anything because we have freedom of expression and it’s pointless to argue with stuff like that. Now I am thinking those people are also possibly narcissists who want to provoke and get reactions from believers that get upset so I am more decided to not give them the reaction that they want.

            Based on your story about your empath friend, I believe her and I am very happy that she has that kind of relationship with God. To be able to trust God in spite of what the ‘facts’ in front of you say (such as the unfavorable statistics regarding her disease) is absolutely admirable and powerful. I am happy that she had that powerful experience of her faith. It must have been an incredible journey for her and I’m happy that she it turned out well just like what God told her.

            I think that my mom felt she couldn’t control situations so she turned to God. It was something that she constantly did in her life. I kept telling her that God will not hurt or destroy somebody because that person offended her. God loves everyone. She always used God for triangulation and to curse people including me when she didn’t get her way. Thankfully I also read the Bible so I knew that God wouldn’t do the things that she said he would do to me because I talked back to her.

            The things that you raised about children are so important and at the same time difficult to figure out how to approach it. I am now coming to a conclusion that these issues such as race is a very difficult thing to tackle and will always be awkward and bumpy and uncomfortable no matter how we approach it. Maybe the aim shouldn’t be perfection but maybe we can be happy about baby steps because at least we are making some progress. I am honestly so tired of seeing posts on my FB about how people are doing it wrong instead of just looking and appreciating the willingness of people to be better. We all came from different backgrounds and we carry different life histories and learned behaviors but it doesn’t mean that we all carry malice. I think this is the time that more than anything we should try to exercise grace towards others and even towards ourselves and accept the fact that none of us know everything, not even the POC experts in the media who act like they know it all regarding how we are supposed to act and think and speak etc. I wouldn’t want my kids to subscribe to a set of behaviors that others enumerate as acceptable. I want their behaviors to be coming from their hearts and minds and their values. I grew up in a country with very little diversity and as a child I saw how people reacted towards my appearance. Sometimes they act like I was the prettiest kid they have ever seen and sometimes they act like I look funny. Either way, I knew they saw me as someone different and it wasn’t always a nice feeling to have. But with the help of other’s explanations to me I understood that those people didn’t always mean to be hurtful and that often people act on natural instincts. It made my heart happy last year when we were at a thrift store in Sacramento and while I was in line to pay my kids were having a happy chat with two black women who were joking with them and making my kids laugh. I was so happy that unlike my experience, my kids don’t see anybody differently. I think that you just have to listen to your heart regarding how to approach it with your son. You have a loving heart and you are a very wise person and there is no doubt that however you decide to lead him will be the best way for him. I think that you are in the right direction thinking about his friends who may be affected by all of this. ❤️

          10. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            I’m sorry I didn’t write back until now. At first I wanted to wait until my emotional thinking went down, then I got caught up with work stuff.

            I forgot to thank you for the ideas for what I can do with my son!
            We watched Scooby! That’s funny that the narcissist is one we talked about. He was willing to play the catalyst of the hurt as himself. Daphne’s empathy was apparent. I really liked her role. I was trying to decide if Velma was a normal or narcissist. She was excited about things until Daphne reminded her that it wasn’t a good situation. I did cry during part of the movie. LOL

            I read somewhere that Congo is in the middle of issues between the government and a militia group. It’s a very sad situation. I hope that you are correct that they can obtain all the resources and care they need during this time!

            That’s so upsetting that your mom tried to use God to punish you and others! I’m glad you knew enough to not let her have that kind of impact!

            This time has been interesting in observing people I know. For those who I thought seemed empathic to others, with slight yellow flags, were showing a lack of empathy outside their views. I wouldn’t say they are narcissists and can believe their emotional empathy is eroded but their comments definitely brought a new perspective. Others who I thought would have negative comments were the most verbal in wanting equality and understanding for the protests. People are complicated with things in their heads and hearts no one can see. I wonder how we teach that to our kids.

          11. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I’m so happy that lately I have been getting notifications from your comments on this thread. I am even able to like your comments now without having to go to a WordPress browser.

            No worries about not being able to write back right away. I honestly don’t mind. I’m just worried about your ET if I have caused it because of something that I said. I apologize if that was the case. Please know that you can always let me know if I have offended you in any way and I will make sure that I will not repeat it again.

            I’m glad that you enjoyed Scooby. I thought it was so funny that Simon was there and he identified Daphne as an empath. When you asked me if there was a narcissist there it was so hard for me to stop myself from telling you that Simon C. was there. Did you also notice how dead Simon’s eyes are and how he often looks bored? I think that it’s such a given that he is a narcissist.

            I am not aware of the specifics of the current situation of Congo but I know that a lot of African countries are suffering from many violent unrests. To be quite honest, although I am very familiar with the names of the African countries (because I watched too many Miss Universe pageants), I wouldn’t be able to pinpoint which ones have those political issues. I know that someday I hope that my family can visit Botswana someday. I love the book series The Number 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency and based on those books I really love their culture.

            I agree, it is indeed interesting to watch people right now. I think that we have gone through so much as a society in such a short period: fear of CV-19, quarantine isolation, economic meltdown and financial strains, and now the police brutality and riots occurring in many places. I wonder if the recent racist behaviors were also influenced by the earlier stressors from CV-19. I personally think that there is a link between racism and cluster b personality disorders. But of course a lot of narcissists are not racists but I think that racism could be a variety of its manifestation. My husband told me that his dad would have hated to know that he married me because I’m not really considered white even though I have fair skin. When Ahmaud Arbery was killed by the father and son my husband told me about it and I was so shocked. I wanted to talk to you about it but for some reason I forgot to mention it or I was so busy and forgot about it. But I was going to ask you if you think that the father and son who killed him were narcissists. Then the woman at the Central Park who called the cops and lied also looked like a narcissist. The way she was acting while she was lying was totally like my mom when my mom framed people up. She was entitled to not put her dog on a leash even though it was against the rules and then Christian Cooper challenged to take the control from her and so her fury was ignited. She did not think of the possible ramifications, she was just thinking of trying to obtain control of the present. And she knows that a lot of black people have been victims of police brutality and I had no doubt that at particular moment she wished serious harm upon Christian Cooper. Thankfully he was able to videotape what really happened.
            I think that even normals and empaths have very low empathy right now with everything that has been happening. I am feeling drained lately as well. I have temporarily unfollowed my FB friends that have been posting too many violent riot videos non stop. It’s making me angry and I don’t want my anger to take away the reality that there is indeed racism, police brutality and many hardships that black Americans and other people of color are facing. I don’t even know if I would qualify as a person of color given that I didn’t inherit my mom’s skin color. I know though that being biracial, it makes me see both sides. I was devastated by how Floyd was murdered but I am also very upset at the current demonization of cops as a group and an institution. I have seen two black police officers that were killed so far. I don’t know the details of their deaths but from what I have read so far their deaths were related to the riots. I have also read very inflammatory comments against cops that I believe to be untrue and unfair. I don’t often speak up as I don’t often find any possible common ground but I don’t think that black and white thinking will be helpful to our society at all. I think that these emotional responses cause people to come up with solutions that do not address the real problems. It’s like a doctor who only treats the symptoms but not the real disease. I think that HG’s bulletin America You Are Being Conned is able to analyze what is really going on and I hope that more people will be able to read it.

          12. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            You are very sweet! You have done nothing to raise my ET! I honestly don’t read all of your comments on this blog but what I do I see you speaking from your beliefs, and I respect that a lot. Some people shy away from sharing their beliefs but you take this opportunity to have discussions.

            I read somewhere that maybe 2020 was what we needed. It has knocked most from their comfort zones and made people more aware of their impact on others. Of course there are those who won’t care but others have stepped up for causes and helping others who may not have even thought of it in their comfort zones. I read HG’s writing on that. It was very good. I am hoping that he will address a factor of it, though. Why are certain groups targeted most? I think it is because society allows for the narcissist to know it is ok to be mean to these groups but not that group. By narcissists feeling they have an unspoken permission, I don’t mean Lessers as they have no facade. I once read a comment on here that a narcissist made fun or did something mean to a homeless person and his friends laughed. Are all his friends narcissists? Maybe. Are they normal and empaths all with eroded empathy due to other factors? Maybe. Or was it ok because the person was homeless? My friend is African American and in a very public area she experienced outright racism where the manager, who wasn’t on the scene, came out and apologized when she didn’t complain. Many people were around when the man made the comment and no one said a thing. Are they all narcissists? Maybe. Are they all empaths and normals with eroded empathy? Maybe. Or is it because she was African American and people just accept that that racism exists and moves on with their day and nothing hurts the narcissist’s facade? There are many other examples. When the meat packing facility had Corona, people rightfully stated that the lives of the employees matter more than the business and it was on many national and local news. When the migrant farmers who are working hard for our produce all tested positive for Corona but can’t take off or they don’t get paid, and they live in horrible conditions which helps the spread of Corona, how many news agencies shared that? The cops who do illegal acts such as murdering an African American are narcissists but what subconsciously gives them the thumbs up to act in that horrific manner with that one person and not another who would have challenged their sense of control? I think society in many ways allows the non-lesser narcissists to feel safe with their facade even when they do mean things to others based on who it is. Chris Cooper’s video tape of Amy Cooper’s comments should be eye opening to all at how some are threatened with their safety just because. I’m thankful that she lost her job. I don’t wish ill on people but I do wish lessons learned and I am hoping she learned something, as I hope others did from that situation, and will not do the same thing. If she’s a narcissist, then she may not have learned anything but others could have.

            I can understand the steps you have taken. It is one thing to be aware and listen and even speak up. It is another to inundate yourself to the point that you become immune to what you see, shut down feelings since you see it so much. There has to be a balance.

            That would be a great opportunity if you can take your children there and they learn the culture there! I know it is hard now but maybe it will be a good opportunity in the future when they are older. I plan on traveling with my son to other countries when he is older. I can’t wait!

            I did like that Simon identified her as the empath! The fact that he couldn’t see what Shaggy and Scooby are to the team, which was later identified, made me laugh inside knowing that as a narcissist he may not see that in real life. Then again I am convinced he is a Greater so maybe he could.

            I wish I could “like” comments. I thought about starting a Word Press account just so I could. I stopped myself as I think irrationally that if I don’t then I can control how often I spend here.

            I hope you are having a great weekend! I heard that parts of Arizona are out of ICU beds already. I haven’t looked locally to see how we are doing.

          13. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There, I am glad that I didn’t say anything that made you upset.

            This whole thing honestly I think is such a mess. It’s like seeing your friends or parents fight and destroy each other. I don’t see any positive right now as I see people yelling at each other instead of having real honest discussions. It is discouraging. So much hate from both sides honestly.
            I agree that society has to change. I personally always speak up, to my detriment in many occasions. I speak up against both sides so both sides end up disliking me. I have never encountered a racist behavior against a black person as I have never had much interactions with them. My former roommate is black but we didn’t do much together outside of being roommates. We went out about a handful of times during school then we went back to our own cities after school and only interacted on FB. I did spoke against a family member that has an antique racist poster but there was no black person present when it happened. I feel that we are pressured into herd thinking right now and not being fully in line means you are unintelligent / selfish / or racist. It is very sad and I hope that this will improve before my kids grow up and have to deal with this.

          14. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There, my emotions are not as high anymore as when I wrote my last reply.

            I want to clarify that the family member who owns the antique racists poster (or maybe not anymore since it was years ago) is not an immediate family member. I will never have anything like that at our house even if it is rare or whatever.

            You have really good points about the environment where the racist feels safe. I was finally able to watch the news for a little bit and the host gave statistics and studies about how it is so hard to file a complaint against a cop. And in Minneapolis I can’t remember the exact figures but I think it was a very small percentage of these complaints that get disciplinary action which is usually just one or two days suspension. Apparently the police union is really powerful and some politicians receive a lot of contributions from the police unions. That is one aspect of the environment. Another aspect is what you said that it could be that the woman in Central Park felt it was easy to target a black person and it is something that we have to take upon us to always speak up against racism when we see it. I think that many questions needed to be asked and this requires an open mind from both sides without getting defensive. The schools in the black community needs to be addressed as well. Ben Carson talked about his experiences in his book. The culture also needs to have an honest look. It’s a very complicated issue with so many interwoven problems that needs to be dissected and examined. In my experience though here in California, it isn’t safe for anyone to be racist. Racist behaviors here is highly admonished and hated here. I do not think that it is the same in all states though. I think that the incident in Central Park have some teachable moment but I just cannot see a normal person behaving the way that she did. A normal person would most likely just say ok I’ll put the dog on leash or a narcissistic normal may even give him the finger but would never think of causing harm to him like that by completely fabricating something out of nothing. It is honestly not a normal behavior in my opinion.

            I had to temporarily unfollow her not because I was being immune to anything but because it is affecting my emotions and mood too much. She posts videos of violence committed by protesters and then she has a very liberal friend who always comments in a very inflammatory way as well so it’s just constant unwelcome stimulation in my news feed that I have the power to turn off by unfollowing. Like I said, I am against the violo y some rioters but it will never cancel out what happened to Floyd or to Arbery. None of them makes the other acceptable. I pray for the family of cops that have been killed since all of these unrest’s as well. I remember during Vietnam war when it was cool to hate soldiers who also came back with PTSD from their experiences in the war. It was not helpful.

            We would love to travel to different countries with the kids. I’m sure that you would love traveling with your son to different countries. Do you have countries in mind already?

            That was a great point about Simon not seeing Shaggy and Scooby being the ‘heart’ of the gang. I think he may have seen it but he could be just provoking them as well and creating drama (fuel). Parts of Arizona are out of ICU beds? That sounds scary. In our county we now have a dive through testing available. I heard that hundreds have been tested but we have only had a total of 10 positive results since CV 19 began. Nine of them have already recovered and one is in isolation. Hopefully it will never get worse here and that it’s on the way down all over the world.

            I hope that you had a great weekend as well! We just stayed home and enjoyed our new TV. 🦋

          15. Getting There says:

            Mommypino,

            I have the same hope for the next generation!

            You are a good woman, a good empath, a good wife, a good mom, and a good friend!! I am thankful for knowing you and being friends!

            I have to tell you that I was paying attention to my son’s cartoons and immediately wanted to write you! The same cartoon that introduced the feeding concept just introduced a possible lesser narcissist relationship. The girl who would be the narcissist chose the guy who couldn’t figure out how to say he didn’t want to be together. Family were telling him to just end it but they were scared of her. There’s more to the episode, but I almost stopped it to use it as an example of behavior my son shouldn’t accept around him. I realized I was paying attention more to it than he was so I saved that lesson for another day.

          16. mommypino says:

            Awh thank you Getting There that’s super sweet of you. I can totally say the same exact thing about you and I’m very blessed to have you as my friend too!!!

            It makes me curious what cartoon that is. I bet it’s from Cartoon Network. Have you seen the movie The Willoughbys on Netflix? It’s super cute and sad at the same time. The kids have narc parents and I almost think that maybe it was written by an ACON because it’s too familiar with how N parents treat their kids.
            I think that it’s good to teach kids from an early age about what behaviors to accept or not accept. Boundaries is something that they will always need and it’s good to have a healthy concept of that. Can you believe I learned a lot of my boundaries from the Bible? Mostly from Proverbs and a Deuterocanonical book called the Wisdom of Sirach.

          17. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            How is the new TV?

            Happy National Strawberry Rhubarb pie day! I wish I had known before and would have gotten a pie to celebrate.

            How did you know it was a Cartoon Network cartoon? It has the word “Gumball” in the title but I cannot remember the rest. I have a sick sense of humor especially when I am tired, so one episode where the poor empath teacher was upset at the idea of him causing harm, I laughed. Usually I use shows and books as opportunities for teaching. That wasn’t my best teaching moment. Charlie Brown, Trolls, other cartoons are great to interrupt and ask a quick question or make a quick point. My son used to not mind it but now I think he is outgrowing my interruptions. LOL

            I was listening to the song “My Way” with Frank Sinatra. I love that song and would like to think the words are ones I could live by but I am starting to have my doubts. It made me think, though, if HG or Simon heard that song and thought “yes, this is so true.” I decided to see if Simon has had to judge someone singing the song. I discovered that he was in Shrek 2 and actually sang part of the song. He had a better voice than I expected.

            I have actually read that book of the Bible. It is very good! That’s a great place to learn boundaries! I remember thinking that it has great points to remember and then forgot them shortly thereafter. I read the book “Boundaries” and that was helpful in me establishing boundaries for about a month or so. I do need to read it again. It’s very hard to break habits!

            We have many countries on our list. I was going to make different countries in Europe be our first trip but I have had many excuses on why we haven’t gone yet. I am hoping next year!

            I have been thinking about your thought of a commonality of narcissists who have faith. I am still not seeing one but it does have me thinking and trying to pay attention.

            I did something today that I hardly do. Usually when I have issues, I try to just keep going. Today I texted a friend and told her that I was having a hard day with some things in my life. Her response actually made me cry because she was willing to drop what she was doing and listen. I know that she is that kind of person so it didn’t surprise me but it meant a lot. Just having told her and having her reaction helped so much! I follow this Instagram page that tells wonderful human stories. I love the ones where others are not too distracted with their lives that they actively see and then do when it comes to helping others.

          18. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I’m happy that you have a friend like her. I’m sorry I wasn’t there for you but I’m very happy that she was there and she was able to help. It’s often hard for an empath to open up about a problem especially for a Carrier I can imagine and I’m glad that you texted her. I’m sure that she was so very happy that you trusted her and she was able to be there for you.

            What is the IG page that you are following? I have two IG profiles .I only created to follow HG’s IG although now I ended up following him with my real IG account too because I don’t regularly go to one as I don’t have real life friends there. On both accounts I follow a lot of parenting and homeschooling accounts to get ideas and celebrity accounts just to see what clothes are fashionable right now lol. I follow many Filipina celebrities as I am more used to the way they style themselves and I have a more similar body type to them. Do you follow HG’s account too? He has a lot of interesting posts and he seems pretty good looking which I can still notice even though I’m married because I’m not blind, just an objective observation. You wouldn’t see exactly how he looks but you can get some idea from some of the pictures.

            I wish I had known it was strawberry rhubarb pie day too as I would have made one although that would mean an extra trip to the store. I’m still self quarantining with my kids even though it has slowly been opening here already just because my husband is a doctor and we try to minimize the chances of exposing his patients. Although this weekend we will go to the Caboose resort which will be totally fun for our boy and even our girl. We will bring food too as extra precaution. This will be the second time that they will be outside since CV19. But it is a perfect social distancing kind of resort because the cabooses are separated from each other.

            I had a feeling that it was Cartoon Network based on your descriptions lol. I can’t really explain but they have a unique style. Just like Nickelodeon does and Disney. Your son is super sweet to let you interrupt him for teachable moments. My son asked me to stop interrupting when I was reading a book to him and I think I tried that with a show too but he asked me to not do it. Although my son can be very patient with me on many other aspects but not that one lol.

            My Way is a great song and I love the lyrics. It is one of those narcissistic thought process that I can totally jump on board with. I can totally see how you could relate to it as you are a strong person and the song denotes strength and belief in self. When I was living in my home country My Way was declared as the most dangerous song in our country. A few people have been killed in separate incidents because they didn’t do a good job singing it at a karaoke club. It is one of the most famous songs there. I agree Simon’s voice is decent enough, he would not have been killed in my home country singing it.

            I have never heard of the book “Boundaries” but if it has helped you it’s probably good. I noticed that when I am not with narcissists boundaries doesn’t seem to be an issue. But I have always struggled about it when with narcissists as I often get blindsided and then I’m often not sure what to do. I will add that to my future reading list as I’m sure that it has a more modern setting and applications than the Bible.

            Europe sounds really fun. I have never been there and have always wanted to see it. Would you wait for the vaccines to be out before you travel? I saw that Japan was thinking of offering rebates or something to people who will travel there this year and I thought maybe we can take advantage of it so we can ride the Shinkansen train. It’s very expensive to travel when there’s four of you in the family. But I did more research and it seems too risky right now with so many uncertainties because of CV19. Do you already know which country in Europe you are going to? Have you been to Europe before?

          19. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            You are so sweet! Thank you! I am very blessed with my friends, both here and offline! I am thinking that it is hard for carriers because it doesn’t fix things. My friend texted me today to check up and I started to share the latest and she was sweet. As the day has gone on I realized that talking doesn’t fix it. It helped my mood for a moment but it didn’t fix the situations. I think, as a Carrier, I just want things done. I feel bad because I know a friend of mine is going through a hard time right now but I haven’t had it in me to offer my shoulder and ears. I have decided to have a bad for me dinner to make me feel better. LOL

            I understand you staying as cautious as possible! There is so much risk still. That’s great that the numbers are so low for your area! My area is not low in numbers; thankfully,
            we aren’t overly high either. That’s so exciting for you and your family this weekend! Is it still a surprise? That will be so much fun! I am learning that some states have announced that schools will open in the fall. I can’t help but wonder what that will really look like.

            Cartoon Network has some of the most interesting cartoons. I often wonder if they are age appropriate. I miss the Disney days! My son handles it better when I provide my thoughts during a show or book than having a conversation for a lesson. I wonder now if he is so intune to the show or book that he misses what I am saying most of the time. LOL

            “Boundaries” is a book that applies scripture and teachings to why people need boundaries. It basically takes the argument that taking time or energy or even saying “no” is not selfish. I can’t remember if it was from that book or somewhere else that I finally learned that the Commandment of loving others is a two part commandment and it includes loving yourself. I used to think “that’s narcissistic,” but since finding HG I realize that their love for themselves is fake.

            It’s called Humans of New York. Sometimes the stories are so amazing it causes tears. Many times it is inspirational. I also like the comments as there are many empaths in this world that follow it. I follow a few celebrities who I think are empaths and a relationship advice person who is probably a narcissist but he is worth looking at, I mean listening to. I don’t follow HG on Instagram. I’m sure he is attractive.

            That is very interesting about “My Way” and your country. What is it about that song that has that kind of reaction? Remind me not to sing that in a karaoke there as I have a bad voice. I’m glad to hear that Simon would not have been killed as that gives me a sense of what is considered passable. He is being sued now for racial issues. I have been curious about what happened on the set that led to previous complaints filed so maybe this lawsuit will show us. Thank you for the compliments on my personality! I am hoping that by the time I die that I will be able to think “yes this song fit me.”

            I have been to many countries in Europe, England, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg, and Vatican. I want to take my son to as many as possible as well as countries in other continents. I have heard Japan is a beautiful country and want to go there as well! I hope you can make it! I understand the concern of the risk! It’s hard to balance the price to travel with a family. I know people with more than one child where the cost to travel within the lower 48 is too much and that includes driving instead of flying. The other issue is time. With kids in school and work, along with the costs, time is limited. As activities are added to the schedule, time during school breaks are taken away.

          20. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There, you sound like my husband. When he confides in me it’s not really to get any comfort or pity or whatever but he just wants to talk about whatever challenge he has and then he tells me the different solutions he wants to choose from and asks me which solution should he do. And it is the same as well, he is not a shoulder for me to cry on and he even irritates me when I need him to just comfort me when something is bothering me but instead of comforting me he comes up with different ideas of what I should do to solve the problem. Sometimes it can feel invalidating but I know that it is just how he is. It’s the same approach that he has with his own problems. He never wallows, he keeps on moving, always forward. There were times though that I was surprised from the wisdom that he has about a perspective that I need to take. Also don’t feel bad about not being able to listen. Sometimes simple gestures showing that you are there for her helps as well.

            We are indeed excited. It is not a surprise anymore and he’s super thrilled.

            Speaking of school reopening this August, California already announced the guidelines and it looks like I will be homeschooling. They want the kids and teachers to wear masks and to be able to social distance they will rotate students to two days in the classroom and 3 days of distance learning. So there’s no real point in going to school. I wonder how they are going to help the parents that work on the days that the kids have to stay home for distance learning.

            That is so sweet that your son loves your input while reading a book or watching a show. I bet when he grows up he will have a lot of memories of you attached to the memories of the books or the shows. My son prefers me to read everything first then I can ask questions in the end. Lately I have been writing the questions on a post it note that I stick on the last page.

            As a child I have a pretty strong concept of self love, almost narcissistic actually. It has helped me survive many things. When there’s something bad that happened to me I can spin it in my head to something positive although not in a delusional way as I am still aware that what happened was bad and I am just trying to adopt a positive outlook. My favorite character in the Bible was David and in my current vernacular I could describe him as a golden child. He was actually from humble origins and wasn’t really spoiled by God but it was his faith and belief in God that gave him so much confidence. So I tried to emulate that way of thinking and it has helped me so much. It doesn’t matter that I am not perfect because I have a God who has my back all the time so I fear nothing. My favorite Bible verse is Psalm 23. If you read the whole thing it is very narcissistic but at the same time submissive to God. It has been my model of self love and it has really helped me survive so much stuff. My mom taught it to me and her narcissistic way of teaching it to me also added to the effect. I want my kids to understand it the same way that I do but I am afraid that I am not narcissistic enough to emulate the way my mom explained it and this may not be as effective.

            Lol yes do not ever sing My Way over there. I don’t know if it was just a coincidence but at that time there had been several people in the news killed while or after singing My Way and in one of the instances the killer was drunk and he didn’t even know the victim and just said that he didn’t like the way he sang My Way. So people started saying to people like me to never attempt that song. But you can still safely do it as there are private karaoke rooms in some of the fancier restaurants. When I was in college my rich friends did that and we would all belt out in our private karaoke party while they serve us food. I don’t know if it’s still trendy there but at that time it was a big trend.

            Wow I’m shocked that he is being sued for racism. I have only seen the complaint by Gabrielle Union about him saying her clothes and hair are too black. You would think that he would know that it isn’t appropriate to say being in Hollywood and all. But I guess his entitlement means he can say whatever he wants to say. I don’t even know what’s the use of that comment other than to provoke and his belief that he has the right to opine on her style is pretty entitled. Maybe he isn’t a Greater after all.
            I can understand that people can misspeak but they don’t mean harm but his comment was an obvious provocation.

            I think I have found a song that fits me although it can be a little on the cheesy side, The Greatest Love of All. My husband always jokes about how cheesy Filipinos are and I am totally a perfect sample so sometimes I’m not sure if my cheesiness is showing too much but this song totally suits me. I love Whitney Houston’s voice and I love the lyrics. I remember you asked me what is my new love song because it used to be I Want Somebody so now I think it’s The Greatest Love of All.

            That’s really awesome that you have been to all of those countries in Europe. I wish to be able to go there some day. Scotland definitely on the list as I have some roots there. My dad was so proud that our ancestors were from the Gordon clan and he said that they are very brave people. Although now I think they sound very narcissistic people, well maybe not all but a lot of them. Lord Byron also came from that clan and he looked like a narcissist. There’s an old old old castle there that I want to visit that was owned by that clan if it’s still there. I also want to visit Rome and the Vatican. I want to see the paintings and statues that I have always admired from books. Did you love the many beautiful architecture in Europe? I don’t think that we have anything comparable to those here in the US. Did you have a favorite out of all of the countries that you visited?

            My husband doesn’t like Europe but he loves places with beautiful nature such as Hawaii and the Philippines. We went to Hong Kong several years ago before their political upheaval and we really enjoyed it. Too bad we can’t go back right now. It’s such a cosmopolitan place that simply being there made me feel sophisticated lol.

          21. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            I’m sorry that I gave you the wrong impression. I do love listening to others. I can listen to another as long and as often as my schedule allows. I will provide advice during that time but I understand that everyone needs to make the best decisions for themselves. I am having an issue with me talking about my issues. It sounds like I am like your husband in that aspect. Have you told him how it makes you feel? I don’t remember if we have previously talked about “The 5 Love Languages.” If we did, I’m sorry! I like how this book reminds people that what speaks love to one may not be what speaks love to another and it is important to learn about the other person in order for each to show in the other’s love language.

            I know Psalm 23 and have loved the trust in the Lord. It’s a blinding trust. I reread it to see if I could pick up the narcissistic aspect to it and have failed. Your kids will learn a loving side to trust in God because you are teaching with your heart of love versus your mom’s style of teaching. I think finding a silver lining can be helpful. With what you experienced in your childhood, without the hope and positive thinking for yourself, who knows how you would have handled the different abuses you received. Seeing a silver lining, in my opinion, isn’t about
            ihnoring reality, but it is not letting the negative define your life. Self love is important and it’s good that you can show that to your children! I had low self esteem as a child and a good part of adulthood. I am working on me now.

            That’s fun that he is so excited! I hope you and your family have an amazing time together there this weekend!

            I hope you can go to Scotland and visit the castle and see all! I also hope you get to Rome and Vatican! I loved Rome and the Vatican! I didn’t spend enough time there and hope to go back some day to see and experience more! I didn’t like the Coliseum but everything else was amazing! The statues, the paintings, the architecture, the archeology findings from times ago, the food, all worth the trip! Every country is worth the visit! I will bring my son to a few of them and then to others as well. I’m sorry I didn’t remember a question you had before about traveling with regards to the vaccine. I will be curious to see how many decide to partake in a new vaccine. Has your husband traveled to the Mediterranean area? Hong Kong sounds great! Have your children expressed interest in traveling? Do you have a map that would be fun for that age?

            Have you seen Gordon Ramsay? Do you think he is a narcissist? He has some similarities and yet he seems like a normal in other ways.

            I think it’s time for bed as I’m falling asleep as I type this. LOL

          22. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I have read about that book but I haven’t read it. I was going to talk to you about it before but I may have forgotten it. My husband’s is quality time and acts of service. Mine seems to be a combination of all. I may have also not given justice with my description of my husband. He does listen to and is a great amazing listener. His patients love to talk to him about themselves and that’s why he knows a lot of people here very well. It’s like he has a lot of Magnet traits in him as well as Carrier but he doesn’t get emotionally affected with people outside of his family as much as empaths do. And he will never spend any time talking to strangers online like we do here in this blog. He never goes on any social media website. And he all of his free time with his family and doesn’t have any friends although he is very well liked and has a few friends who respect him very much but he never spends time with them or talk to them on the phone. I just went grocery shopping yesterday and the lady working at the check out told me out of the blue with such enthusiasm that my husband is the best doctor in the world. So he has a lot of Magnet traits but his empathy stays mostly in his family so that’s why I classified him as a normal.

            I will write more later. 😘❤️

          23. Getting There says:

            I forgot, Mommypino!
            That is a great song! I love the words and Whitney Houston’s voice was a pure gift! That’s a very good choice! I don’t agree with your husband. I don’t know any cheesy person and that includes you and that song. A classic song is a classic song!

          24. HG Tudor says:

            The opening line is cheesier than Oviedo on 4 November 2020!

          25. Getting There says:

            Florida has been called worse. Oviedo is close to UCF and they did decently in football last year and play a game on 7 Nov 20, so maybe it is cheesy to tailgate 3 days in advance. Unless you are referring to the chickens roaming the town’s streets and are thinking chicken parm. Add a bit of garlic…yum!

            The awards must go on.

          26. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I think he was talking about the Cheese Festival in Oviedo, Spain. I only knew that be I googled Oviedo and the date that he gave. But I saw that there’s also Oviedo in Florida. I have been to Florida once when we went to Disney World. We also went snorkeling with the manatees in Tampa. The humid weather and their flora reminded me of my home country very much. It also rained a lot and the rain was real rain like in my home country and not the drizzle kind of rain here in California. There was thunder and lighting and it amused me how scared my stepdaughters were like they were screaming and hiding in the car. I think they were too spoiled by the California weather. But I actually love the real pouring rain. It made me feel at home.

            I’m just going to explain a little bit about Psalm 23 before I go to bed in the perspective of someone raised by a narc.

            “ Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.”

            To me this is narcissistic mindset because the banquet is prepared for him in the presence of his enemies. So it’s like God helped him one upped his enemies by showing his success to his enemies. I find it narcissistic because actually we should enjoy whatever success we have regardless of our enemies seeing it or not. It bothered me about my mom how people has to know instead of just enjoying the blessing for what it is. But it’s not an NPD level of narcissism but I think it is a narcissistic trait to want to be the victor. The rest shows that he had complete trust in God and thus I felt his confidence infectious . I have always read it whenever I was feeling low. I also love the part that God’s rod and staff protect him. It’s like what we talked about before that when parents don’t give their child rules they do not feel safe so the spoiled kid or golden child actually do not have control and can create a narcissist. So I love that David was even thankful for God’s rod and staff, which in my interpretation is the consequences of his bad deeds hitting him which makes him reflect and correct himself and go back to God. Anyway that’s how I interpreted it but I think that it is healthy narcissism that was described here.

            I might not be able to write until next week. Take care and have a wonderful weekend! I forgot to ask what you are going to do this weekend?

          27. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            That’s great that your husband is such a good doctor! I feel that doctors that know how to listen are the best kind. It’s a great book and the test is very revealing. Most people are a mix but it is which one or ones are at the higher level that are the most loud love language, if I can call it that. You can do the test online if you haven’t taken it yet.

            I was just listening to the song “Adagio.” I love the instrumental song “Adagio in G Minor” and could not enjoy the versions with the words. Then I heard the words after a heartbreak from one of my narcissists and realized how much I could connect with most of the song at the time. I still couldn’t understand how the meaning of “adagio” fit in the words but the meaning at the time discounted my criticism. I listened again today and thought I would be more critical again as I didn’t feel the connection to most of the words, but I was surprised it didn’t.

            I am now thinking I need to travel to Florida. After my response to HG, I remembered a time I went to New Orleans, not during Mardi Gras, and a group of us hung out. Thanks to the tasty hurricanes I became a bit drunk. I decided to wander off from the group and wander the streets of New Orleans alone in the night. One of the guys followed me until he caught up to make sure I didn’t get myself into trouble. He was a very nice guy, and he had gone to UCF. I wonder if he is in that area and single. Maybe the fact that the town was brought up is a sign. I don’t remember his name so that will probably make it difficult. LOL

            Are you ready for this weekend?

          28. mommypino says:

            Lol Getting There, you’re too cute! I wish I have a crystal ball so I can help you track that guy. He sounds like a really nice man. I’m a believer that if it’s meant to be it will happen. Or maybe he moved to where you live and you just haven’t seen each other yet?

            Adagio is a very beautiful song. It’s wet elegant and romantic. I have not heard the version with words yet but I will check it out.

            That test sounds really interesting. If the online test is free I will take it. My husband doesn’t like taking personality tests so I wouldn’t even mention it to him.

            I’m getting ready for the trip and we are so excited. If I have a nice picture of the caboose that we will be staying in I will use that as a profile. We have been there before and we totally loved it. They also have a lot of beautiful places to hike to.

          29. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I have thought of you just now. We are here at the resort and it’s absolutely beautiful. I wish I could send you pictures. The views are spectacular and the kids love our caboose. It’s a red caboose from the Southern Pacific 1047 train. It has a cupola which the kids love climbing up and down. Our dog is just loving everything too. This is the first time that we were able to take the dog outside of our property since CV19. And our property is big but it’s nice for our dog to exchange friendly sniffs with other dogs. I haven’t seen anyone with a mask and we aren’t wearing one either because we didn’t think it’s necessary here. I was thinking if your son loves trains this would be a great experience for him.

            I had another message for you but it was probably not approved because I may have not mentioned anything about narcissism.

            I was thinking about how my narcissist mom was all about winning and when she would ask me about what happened in school and I told her for example that I was able to get a perfect score at a test, her follow up question would be, “How many others got a perfect score?” If I said we all did her face makes a dismissive expression like I wasted her time or she would say, “It must have been a really easy test then.” And totally lose interest. If my answer is I was the only one who got a perfect score she would smile, not the same smile like we do but the kind of smile like she was a victor through me. She would then ask me how impressed the teacher was and ask me if there were any classmates who seemed jealous and how were their facial expressions or what did they say. A blessing or a good thing is only valuable if it causes her to one up anyone.

          30. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I like your picture! Thank you for sharing it! I wish I could see the other pictures! I’m glad your family had so much fun! It sounded like the great getaway for your children and dog. How about you? Did you have an opportunity to meet new people? That was sweet of you to think of me! I too have thought of you and wanted to share something at different times! I know we are limited in our connection so I am thankful for what we can share. My son would like that place! Thank you!

            Thank you for helping me understand your point about Psalm 23. I can see how that would be narcissistic and a narcissist would take delight in that thought. The way I read it before was that he was able to sit at such an intimate but open setting and has no fear of what the enemies want to do to him, they are just sitting there too and cannot harm. It’s like God has his back completely. It’s like the type of support where God isn’t destroying anyone or anything but still protecting the person where the person can sit free of the fight or flight or freeze mode.
            I’m very sorry for all of the abuse you lived with due to your mom!! You should have had joy and been able to take delight in your work, not consider competition. You are such a strong woman to have grown up with your mom!

            Do you find that having grown up with the abuse of your mom that you pay extra attention to behavior even on TV and don’t find the behavior amusing in other ways? For example I watched a Geico commercial tonight and thought of an old one about a drill sergeant being a therapist starring the drill sergeant from “Full Metal Jacket.” The drill sergeant wasn’t empathic at all and even made fun of the client. I have always laughed at the commercial, but I don’t find the same behavior amusing in other ways. I was wondering if you, having grown up in that environment, has you recognize that the behavior is not ever amusing.

            I like your idea of if it is meant to be it will happen. I am getting to the point that I am thinking of developing a “normal” signal to flash in the sky to find a good normal. I just can’t figure out what that symbol should look like. LOL

            I am very excited, I just learned that “The Alienist” is starting up again!

            My son and I hung out with friends this weekend. It was great to be with friends! My son has missed his friends so much and had a lot of fun! I also had fun sitting and talking with friends. I need to find a way to do that more for both my son and me. I have friends putting their children in daycare a few days a week. I just read about daycare workers in West Virginia, I think it is, who tested positive for Corona. That means that the children in the room may have to quarantine for 14 days, not just stay out of daycare. It’s hard to convince myself that the social interaction is worth the risk at this time. I understand that most parents do not have a choice and need to put their kids in daycare. I can’t imagine the struggle and concern they experience in different ways.

          31. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I’m happy that you and your son got to hang out with your friends this past weekend. I bet that your son was so amazingly happy to see his friends again. It is so hard for kids to not interact with people for all of those months even though they understand that it is because of the virus. Maybe you can set up regular playdates with your son’s friends that way unlike taking him to daycare you will have more control over the people he interacts with and therefore the risk wouldn’t be as high. That’s what I have been thinking of doing and I will set up play dates with my cousin and friend.

            I have never heard of The Alienist but it looks interesting. We don’t have HBO though so I will not be able to see it.

            I always believed that things happen because it is meant to be. I am also a believer of God’s timing. Have you read the book I Kissed Dating Goodbye? That was the book that became my guide before I met my husband and it has lead me into finding qualities of a normal before I learned about narcissists. It also talked about how romantic songs are full of lies regarding what true love is just like what HG has been saying. But I have heard that the guy who wrote it separated from his wife I think last year or so. I was sad to learn about it but saw that the separation was very amicable and they remained friends and supportive of each other up to now. It makes me think that both of them are not narcissists. But I still feel bad that they separated and that being married to a non narcissist is not a guarantee that it will last. I think the author even disengaged from being a Christian and asked for forgiveness to the sectors of society for what he has taught as a preacher. From what I have read, some parents took his ideas from his books to a different level by controlling who courted their daughters almost to the point of arranging the marriage which I thought sounded narcissistic. I only took what I thought made sense from his book and I didn’t read Boy Meets Girl since I didn’t have a parent where I could be courted from. I also think that it was incredibly brave for them to separate when they felt that the union was not how it’s supposed to be given all of the expectations that people have about their marriage being a model of romantic relationships for many Christians that follow them so I do admire them for their courage to pursue what is true than to live in a lie for a facade.

            Thank you for your kind words. I don’t really feel bad for myself about how my mom raised me. It is something that I have already come to terms with and is just a fact of life. I do remember when I was new here and was just starting to share my stories that I have never shared with anyone I was very vulnerable for having many emotions rise up but I have gone through that process now and have completely accepted everything. I do share my past not to have people feel bad for me but just in case someone might learn something from it. I have come from a place of having nothing to a place of having many privileges and I do recognize that a lot of this didn’t come from my hard work but just from consequences of certain circumstances that happened in my life. I still have a lot to prove for myself.

            I totally know what you are saying. When I first watched Waterboy with my husband and stepson I wasn’t amused with Bobby Boucher’s mom and I told my husband terrible she is as a mom and he asked me to not ruin the movie for him because it’s just a funny movie that he doesn’t want to analyze. Maleficent 2 triggered me too when she was not allowed to date anyone. But thankfully I can recognize the feelings were just from my past and not my present but thankful for the perspective that I have from my past. I don’t find the drill sergeant therapist commercial that funny either. It actually made me cringe.
            Thank you for your interpretation of hat passage from Psalm 23! That really helps me a lot and I will definitely adapt that interpretation.

            About the place we went to, it’s not a fancy kind of accommodation so if you’re used to the comfortable experience in nice hotels you might not enjoy it. But it was comfortable enough for us. The town had very few people and a lady initiated a conversation with me at a burger place. A lot of the restaurants were not open because of the virus. The town almost looked dead. There was shop owner that had an eccentric personality but was really nice. We bought ice cream from him and he gave our kids one antique train book each because they said they love trains and he thought they were super cute. The resort seemed almost fully occupied during the weekend but we didn’t interact with the other guests. Nobody was wearing a mask and the lady that chatted with me said that they only had 14 cases in their whole county since the CV 19 started. There was also no traffic on our way home which we have never experienced before! It seemed like the ideal time to do road trips lol but I still wouldn’t go to areas with more than 20 cases.

          32. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            Talking about Joshua Harris made me curious so I did some google searches and saw a video of a documentary about him and how his book has affected so many people both in good and bad ways. The name of the documentary is I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye. I think if you have time it is an interesting movie. I believe this was made right before he announced his decision to separate from his wife and him disavowing his Christian faith. My heart totally goes to him and his wife as I could imagine how difficult that soul searching journey must have been. He wrote the book when he was 21 and he really believed that he figured out the answers regarding how to find true love. When I was watching it I almost felt like I have read a different book than what they were talking about. I do remember that after reading that book I have decided to abstain from dating anyone until I am in a position where I could marry someone and until I meet the person with the qualities that I believe will be perfect for having a family. I have had many crushes but I ignored those feelings and decisively didn’t pursue any relationship because I was not at that point yet. Apparently this concept has actually hurt many young Christians at that time and has caused a lot of control issues. Joshua Harris has a conversation with a pastor in the documentary and the pastor said that he was having a conversation with a woman and someone told him that his conversation is too long and she has to guard her heart. So he started making jokes about the whole thing he said because he thought that it needed to be made fun off. The pastor told Joshua that a well intentioned wisdoms has turned into like the Pharisees. The Pharisees in the Bible were like the holy narcissists who took the spirit out of the laws and created many other laws in order to control people and not really to practice what the faith was all about. It’s interesting how something so innocent can be turned into something harmful or hurtful when narcissists highjack it for their own prime aims. I feel that Joshua Harris is genuinely guilty and affected but I believe that not all of that was his fault or something that he could control.

          33. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            Who needs expensive hotels when you can have creative fun experiences as a family? Staying in a caboose just sounds awesome and makes for fun memories! I like nice hotels for some trips, usually it’s based on what I want in a room such as my own bathroom, control of the hotel room temperature, and safety. I don’t like to spend a lot of time around the hotel unless the hotel is the center of the reason for the trip. I love going to new places and meeting new people. I know with the Corona it isn’t the best time to talk with strangers. What a cool gift for your kids!

            I’m sorry that my example of the commercial made you cringe!!

            I want to share something that I don’t remember ever sharing with anyone. I may have but I don’t remember. When I was between the ages of 5 through 7, I was at the neighborhood park without family or my friends. It’s not something I would allow with my son but kids played a lot outside without parents watching for bad guys back then. Two girls who had issues being friendly to others were there. I don’t remember what started this particular event. I also don’t remember how I ended up with my back against the wooden fence of the park but I do remember that they kept hitting my head against the fence. No one was there to help me. Thankfully they weren’t strong enough to cause bleeding or me passing out. I don’t know if I ended up able to escape on my own or because my mom was calling for us to come in. I ran home and inside and they actually followed where my mom said I couldn’t play anymore because it was time to come in. I didn’t tell her what happened. I think I didn’t want them to get in trouble or maybe I didn’t want attention, most likely the latter. I don’t know if that was the pivotal point of becoming a Carrier in just moving forward until everything is ok. I do know that I don’t accept help very well now. I know it hurts me in some ways and do attempt to have help even in little matters, but then something happens and that one thing impacts how I feel on assistance for all matters at the time. Does it make sense? No and it causes hurt or upset for those I shut down when it wasn’t them that did the one thing. I say my past doesn’t define me but it does. I am who I am because of the lessons from my past. Would I accept anyone doing physical harm to me now? Oh hell no! But the past impacts us. The abuse you received in your past is not how you are treated now, thank God. It makes complete sense, though, that you would be impacted by scenes of moms being controlling and abusive!! I didn’t find that movie funny but you sharing the impact of the movie is you sharing part of you, you allowing someone to see the scars you have inside. If that ruins a stupid movie, then so be it. Since he isn’t a narcissist, I will assume you are able to talk through and he has changed how he reacts when you share that something connects to the abuse you experienced. I know you aren’t going victim narcissist style where everything equals stop doing or “whoa is me.” I have always viewed your sharing as you sharing a part of you that you kept hidden and letting light into those dark areas. I am thankful that you have trusted us on this site with the sharing!

            I think playdates are great! The issue I have is that I have friends who are not being careful and then friends being very careful. I would rather my son around the friends being very careful but I am not sure that we are being as careful as they would appreciate for someone around their children. I will have that conversation before the next time so they can decide what they would prefer. That will be fun for your children!

          34. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There ❣️

            Thank you for sharing your childhood story that you have never shared with anyone. What a scary experience that must have been to not have anyone protect you and get bullied like that. I’m sorry that it happened to you. I’m sure that it has been a very impactful experience to you especially since it happened at such an early formative age. It is quite obvious that you were already an empath when that happened. It could indeed have been a pivotal moment on how you became a Carrier. It is interesting when you said that you didn’t tell on them because you didn’t want time attention. I wonder where that could have come from. I wonder if something prior to that has happened and the result caused you an unpleasant feeling which stayed inside you even if you don’t remember it anymore. You were about the same age as my 6 year old boy when it happened to you and I noticed with him he is already a full fledged empath as well but he doesn’t worry about getting my attention when his sister did something bad to him. I wonder which traits play a role in affecting those little nuances in our characters. It is interesting how those little differences in our traits can affect us in significant and different ways on how we react and deal with problems such as narcissistic entanglement.

            Thank you for understanding me completely. You are right, it is rare for me to share my past in real life and it is always prompted by something else such as a scene in a movie or a conversation. I never initiate a pity play. There is a big difference between the timing, reason, manner and how often I shared my past compared to my MR sister. My husband really lost his patience with my sister when she lived with us to the point that they would be in the same room and he wouldn’t talk to her or just didn’t care about her. He got really tired of her poor me monologues he said. And he got tired that she shot down all of the solutions that he came up with. He said there’s nothing anyone can do to help her if she’s unwilling to help herself. My husband listens to me and I can count on him for logical advice and solutions and points of view but after I confide in him and he gave me the advice I’m pretty much on my own lol. He will not be a part of anyone’s pity play or wallowing about anything which is not an issue with me because I don’t enjoy having people feel bad for me. I’m too proud for that. But sometimes it bothers me when he orders our son (or daughter) to stop crying prematurely and threatens to spank him is he doesn’t stop crying. I give him an expression or signal to stop when he does that and he can be defiant at first but he tones it down. Also before it used to annoy me so much when I get upset at something and he gets upset at me for pouting. I told him that I am human and I can’t smile if I’m unhappy. Although it hasn’t happened lately but sometimes he can really rile me up with how he just wants all of us to stop being upset prematurely. That is one thing that makes me wish I’m married to an empath. But the negative is only very minimal and he is a really good person, husband and dad.

            No need to apologize about the commercial. It just made me cringe a little bit because since my participation here at Narcsite I have become more aware of the extreme difficulties people with mental and emotional issues or trauma experience so seeing someone who’s portrayed as struggling getting yelled at by the therapist and having his trauma minimized was not pleasant to watch. But it’s totally not your fault. 💖. And I understand it was for humor and is humorous to many.

            I am totally the same with hotels. The caboose did have a decent bathroom with tub. No exhaust fan but the window can be opened. There was heating and air conditioning. The bed was comfortable but the real only reason to go there is to be able to sleep in an old caboose. It had vintage pictures of the caboose and train framed on the wall which was cute. Also I was wrong when I told you that 1047 was the train number. Apparently it was the caboose number as trains can have several cabooses and each train car has a number so it can be identified.

            I totally understand your apprehension regarding play dates. I feel the same way. It is so hard to navigate between making sure your staying safe and providing socialization for your child. There is always a risk and for that it helps me that I can pray for the other uncertainties that I cannot control.

            Speaking of prayers, I talked to my husband about Joshua Harris and he wasn’t very sympathetic. He made several logical points which totally made sense. It is interesting how empath’s view something in a way affected by emotions and then you hear a logical point of view and you see that it totally makes sense.

          35. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There ❤️

            I have reread my last message to you and I’m slightly bothered at the part where I compared you to my son. I feel that it didn’t feel good to read and am worried how it could have made you feel. I apologize if that was the case for you as well. I was looking at it in a dissection of empathic traits point of view and wasn’t that sensitive with how it could have made you feel. Please know that my intentions were not to imply that there was anything wrong with you as a child at that time. I was just wondering what could have caused that feeling or rationalization for you and trying to imagine if my son at the same age would do the same or not. There is something that I have noticed about my empath son that bothers me sometimes. I noticed that he automatically makes sacrifices for his sister and quite often. And sometimes it worries me that it could be a seed to him allowing himself to be taken advantage of when he gets older. But I’m probably overthinking this and worrying unnecessarily. I have been thinking of how the way I interact with him could have affected that. If there is a way I would hope for him to be on a more normal side like his dad and sometimes I worry about him getting hurt in his adulthood. Anyway I just want you to know that I really value what you have shared and I hope that my earlier response didn’t make you feel that it was not. ❤️

          36. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            You are very sweet! I didn’t take any offense to your comment about your son when you were commenting about me. It made sense to tie an age together and consider how development of traits occur. I understand your wanting your son to be a normal as that is my desire for my son as well. At 6 years old he still has time for other characteristics to be developed but it is great that he shows empathy. I think it is much easier to be one way with your siblings and another with others. I fought back with my siblings at the same age I didn’t fight back those girls. That memory has no emotional impact on me. Its only impact is the seed of a lesson it implanted. That’s how I am starting to view memories, seeds of lessons with some taking and growing and others plffftt. Your childhood and early adulthood planted seeds of what kind of mom you didn’t want to be and you are doing a great job growing the seeds of being a loving compassionate mom.
            In my opinion it’s good that you step in and it’s good that he steps back from teaching your kids to not express their feelings and worry about the consequences if they do. I think some men, not sure if your husband is one, were taught that crying is not manly and emotions emasculated. I have had this talk with men 50 and older and it seems that it was a common teaching regardless of where they were from.

            I don’t know if there was anything from earlier in life that taught me that. I was shy when I was younger. I have mostly grown out of that now, but I still don’t like to be the center of attention even for good reasons. People who see me in real life think I am joking about how shy I was as a child based on how they see me now.

            You are not your sister! It makes sense that a movie or something will bring to mind a memory. I’m sure it allowed for you to cope and grow by pushing some memories in a dark corner of your mind and heart. Your husband reminds me of the book “Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus.” He wants to solve the problems and move forward. I heard that after that book some women learned to start their conversations with their husbands with “I am sharing with you not looking for a solution but because I just need to share.” I think it was that book that advised that men process in their heads and then will share if they decide, and women process as they are talking and sharing.

            Some individuals will twist just about anything they can get their hands on to be controlling. It’s happened throughout history within all religions and also non- religious areas. I think the sense of balance is lost in some ways for some. It’s either all of this way or not at all. I know a couple who waited until their marriage to kiss. I remember thinking that that is a way to resolve what kind of guys might be interested. The problem though I saw was how quick people jumped into marriage for that first kiss. It probably worked for some but not an answer for all. It sounds like you found a balance and did what worked for you in finding a loving relationship. I read a quick thing on him and there is something about him that makes me give a questioning look and consideration that there is more to the story than what little I have read. I hope them well and a joyful new beginning for their different paths. I don’t know what the parents did in regards to the book and want to look it up. I had a conversation about parenting styles recently. I was called a drone parent because I didn’t let him play by himself outside. I’m not sure if that is better than a helicopter parent but am hoping so. LOL

          37. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There❣️

            Thank you, you’re so sweet! I will write a longer email next week but for now I just want to greet you a happy Summer Solstice and belated Juneteenth. Happy Father’s Day to your dad too!

            I hope you have a wonderful weekend!! 😘💕

          38. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There, Thank you again for understanding. Yes it was the age that made me compare. I was thinking you made a great point about behaving differently with a sibling than with other kids. I noticed something about my son. When him and his friend both drew something, his friend finished first and his friend drew a stormtrooper in a cartoonish way and it’s obvious that his friend has skills in making the outlines of the drawing. His friend’s mom and I (and also my son) praised his friend’s drawing. But they were in a hurry to go home so his friend’s mom told his friend to get in the car and my son was still finishing his mermaid drawing. I totally didn’t even think that it would matter. So they left and my son finished his drawing and I praised him (I was genuinely and sincerely impressed) but it seemed like he wasn’t that proud of it although he was appreciative of my praise. Then he said his drawing is not as good as his friend’s. I told him that their drawings are both good but just different. My son did his drawing differently that’s why it took him longer. He formed the shape by coloring the shape with the colored markers instead of drawing the outline. At first what he was drawing was not recognizable because he was coloring the paper without the outline of the image first. In my personal opinion my son’s drawing was actually more interesting because of the combination of colors and he even put dots of different colors on the mermaid’s tail which made it look like it was shimmering whereas his friend’s drawing was just an outline but had no color(but of course it was a white stormtrooper) and has no personality but more technical. I was thinking I honestly believed that my son’s drawing was better but I told my son that both of their drawings were great in different ways. My narc mom would have told me that my drawing was superior and I remember it boosting my self esteem. I felt guilty and unsure. I didn’t want my son to be like me where I became competitive in an unhealthy way which I had to unlearn when I got more older (college) and unlearning it was such a challenge. I didn’t want my son to be obsessed about being better than others so I lied to him about how I felt about his drawing because of that fear. But am I affecting his self confidence though and not being the cheerleader that I’m supposed to be? I was thinking we all only have one mother who will unconditionally believe in us and I think I failed him there. It is still a challenge for me to find the balance of healthy vs unhealthy narcissism regarding raising my kids. I was also thinking about how my narc mom had high expectations from me like I was expected to have good grades and to finish college, there was no other acceptable alternative. And I absorbed that expectation towards myself. The Empath aunt that I told you about before who was never entangled with a narcissist and reminded me of HG’s Sophie, didn’t have high expectations with her kids. She was just a sweet happy go lucky mom who just wanted her kids to do whatever makes them happy. So I remember my dad criticizing that aspect of them to me in private. He said that none of her kids achieved much and her favorite son is struggling financially but has an expensive hobby which they partially support. And I totally see his perspective but I see Hera too. My dad’s daughters went to private schools and yet they were never happy. My brother did great, achieved very well and seems happy with his life. I also saw an article that one factor that affects the success of children is when parents have high expectations from them. So I am still figuring out how to show to my kids that I have high expectations from them but not to the point where they will be unhappy.
            I loved your interpretation of that verse from Psalm 23. But I don’t know if I should or should not foster competitive spirit in my kids and how to do it the healthy way.
            You’re right about my husband. His age (or generation) has a lot of effect. He also couldn’t tolerate whining and crying as much as I can. I remember reading that older dads have a harder time tolerating crying babies and that was so true with us. I also remember him saying several times to me that it still bothers him that his mom looked sad in all of her pictures and that she had a miserable life because of her marriage to his dad. I noticed that when something was bothering me he couldn’t stand that I’m not smiling and tries to talk to me about it or figure out how to fix it. And I have told him that sometimes I need to process things on my own and asked him to ignore me and I will just be ok after a period. He eventually did what I asked him to and it has been so much better.

            Shyness might be something in your DNA. I remember it was one of the traits in the DNA test that I took. It said I didn’t have that gene. But I remember when I was young I would run to hide whenever someone like a neighbor goes to our door or chats with my mom at our house. I remember thinking to myself how weird my instincts were but I couldn’t control it. It lasted up to sixth grade I think. But I wasn’t shy in school and I was even one of the students who monopolized classroom discussions. But for some reason at our house I always hide from people visiting with my mom. Have you experienced that?

          39. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            Thank you! I hope you had a great time today with the Summer Solstice! Happy Father’s Day to your husband! Thank you, I will let me dad know.

            Have you seen the new “Emma?” It’s been years since I had read the book. I think someone once said that “Clueless” was based on “Emma.” If so, I think the “Clueless” character seems more empathic. I need to reread the book to see how true to it this movie remained.

            I hope you have a great weekend as well!

          40. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I hope that you had a wonderful weekend too! We made a summer solstice cake last Saturday and had a quiet picnic at home for Father’s Day. I helped the kids make crafts to give to their dad earlier that week and got them matching shirts that say Dad Son Team and I ❤️ Daddy. Our summer solstice cake actually turned out delicious even though my frosting skills are totally amateur. The recipe was good. The cake had some orange and lemon zest, ground almond and turmeric and it created a very interesting taste which we liked and went really well with tea.

            I have not seen Emma but I want to see it. It has been many years since I have watched Clueless and can barely remember the story. I remember Paul Rudd May have been in love with Alicia Silverstone in that movie but I can’t remember what the story was about. I would have to watch it again.

            Last Father’s Day my husband watched Transformers and Megan Fox was there and I don’t know if HG has already confirmed it but I really believe that she is a narcissist. I could be wrong though. The actor there Shia LaBeouf could be one too but he maybe just suffering from some other mental issues. He was very problematic though and at one point he did some really weird stuff and I don’t know if it’s narcissism or something else.

            I will write you more later about the other topics we talked about. I’ll send this one for now. 😘💕

          41. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I just got an email from my son’s principal and the next school year looks like it will be really difficult. They are giving students two options: 1. Full time distance learning but they will be graded, attendance will be checked and there will be a designated teacher. They will also provide packets that we will pick up and submit weekly. 2. Hybrid where the student will go to school twice a week and distance learning thrice a week. I am still leaning towards homeschooling but I am tempted to also keep him in school because he will be graded and so his improvements and learning will be assessed by a professional teacher instead of just by me. Also if the virus goes away the school will be back to normal and if he is homeschooling he will miss out on that school life which he loves. But the advantages of homeschooling is that I can have him take horseback riding lessons during weekdays twice a month and to parks during weekdays when there’s not a lot of crowd. Also I have been teaching him and my daughter Spanish and I signed up for muzzy where they can watch cartoons in Spanish and they are learning and loving it. I also signed up for preschool prodigies to teach them music and they love it too so far. It seems like they will not learn those things in school especially now that the school days even for the hybrid option is only in the morning and not whole day. So I’m still leaning more towards homeschooling for now. I am also intimidated by the responsibility of being in charge of his education for the whole year. I already have curriculum that I want to purchase online for Math, Language Arts, Science and History. I just pray that if I choose to homeschool I’m able to really be consistent with it. So far I have already been doing some Math and Literacy lessons with him aside from Spanish and Music lessons and he is doing fine.
            Are you taking your son back to school?

            I still wasn’t able to watch Emma but I will when I have a chance. I have been curious about it and it looks cute.

            I started to read this book about Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton and my guess is that they were both narcissists. But I just started so I will let you know when I think when I finish.

          42. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            I’m so sorry it has been so long since I have sent you a message. I am in the midst of juggling many balls and dropping quite a few. I am sorry our communication is one of those I dropped! Until I have all the balls under control, I do think I won’t be here as often. I think and pray for you and your family often. I miss our communication when I take these breaks, and sometimes I feel I just need to figure things out before I look at this site separately from our communication. I’m sorry!! There are times songs play that lead me to think of our conversations of narcissism and want to share with you thoughts of the song or cartoon. I swear that one cartoon knows narcissism in a special way.

            I was listening to “The Voice” videos and saw that Lea Selanga is a judge on the one in the Philippines. I love her voice! I saw her in concert once and she is as amazing in person!

            I hope you and your family are doing well! Things in my area are starting to get a little hot with spread of the virus. I am holding on to hope that the medical individuals saying that the virus has lost some of its powers are correct!

            It sounds like you made an amazing Father’s Day for your husband! He is blessed with you! The shirts sound cute! Have you thought of something creative for your next job? You appear to enjoy being creative and hands on.

            I loved Paul Rudd in “Clueless!” The way he looked at Cher was just cute!

            I had a discussion with a stranger on Instagram. I think he is a lesser. It was amazing to watch how he lived up to many things HG writes about, a lot more than either of my exes have ever! I screenshot the conversation and shared it with two friends and we had a great discussion about narcissism afterwards. It was such an experience. I have no desire to speak further with this person but appreciate the lessons I received during the conversation. I thought of how you have described your mom as a Lesser and I couldn’t help but think of your childhood with a parent like that.

            I look forward to your thoughts on the other subjects when you have a chance!

          43. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            No need to apologize! <3 I totally understand and everything that you explained is reasonable and normal. I hope that you can get the control and balance that you want. Don't rush as I am just always here. <3

            I really like Lea Salonga's voice too. She was the perfect person to play Kim of Miss Saigon. I have watched YouTube videos of her audition and performance as Kim and I had goosebumps with how believable she was. She was only 17 when she played that role and she said she had her first kiss there. I have seen from a documentary that before she got that role she said that she had so many haters in our home country. She was a child actress from a very wealthy family and a lot of people look at her as someone who only got famous because of privilege. Her uncle was a Senator and they came from a long line of wealth. They also didn't like her personality. Then she got the Miss Saigon role and she became a hero in our country. It is pretty clear that she has an amazing talent not just with singing but also with acting so maybe a lot of those hate she experienced were just from jealousy. Although she's also pretty opinionated in a very pushy way and many people might find that unpleasant too. I don't know if she is a narcissist or a Super Empath but she has a very strong and dominant personality.

            I'm praying that you and your loved ones will never get affected by the virus. It is frustrating with all of the protests that happened where I have seen a lot of people not wearing masks and not social distancing. The reopening of the economy may have been too soon too. I'm still staying home and still hasn't taken the kids with me to the store. I am worried about how long this virus will stay as a threat not only because of the potential health dangers but also the businesses that my kids like such as their gymnastics school. The whole quarantine thing is so bad for the kids. They miss doing the stuff that they used to do. Also I feel bad for the kids who will not get quality education because of the budget cuts and CDC guidelines. My kids are lucky that I can still give them decent education from home but a lot of kids do not have that option. But we are still lucky compared to poor countries. I was just imagining if the CV 19 happened when I was living with my mom in a tiny studio bedroom apartment about as big as my family's kitchen right now with only one electric fan to cool us down and no windows for ventilation and there was even a point when we didn't even have TV. Our favorite past time was to go to shopping malls and window shop all day and not buy anything but we get to cool down in their AC and also try the free samples of food. I feel terrible for whomever could be in that situation there right now and they can't even go to a mall anymore.

            Thank you, you're so sweet. There was an old lady at my husband's church who really likes my husband who wrote on my Facebook the same thing you said about how blessed he is to have me and our darling kids. So I told my husband about it and of course he had that smart ass response with a smirk saying that he will tell her when he sees her that she has no idea what he goes through in private. He likes to say that a lot of people don't know how it is to be married to a Pino and that not many people can appreciate everything that he has to go through. Nobody believes him of course. He would probably have more luck if he tells that to some here at the blog.

            I'm so glad you will not speak to him again and immediately saw what he is and that he even became an educational illustration of what you learned here. It is one of the reasons why I share my stories so that people who might read could learn the various patterns of behaviors. I often specify my mom's school and cadre before describing her behaviors. I always have a contradicting emotion of guilt when I start to talk about her which I am able to ignore as I rationalize that people could learn something.

            I'm not sure if you have seen my older email about the other subjects. I think it's possible that you missed it because it's under your older comment. About three messages above this one I think.

            I really want to watch Clueless and Emma and as soon as I have time I will do it. I do like Paul Rudd in Ant Man. I also like the actress playing opposite him there (Evangeline Lily). I am almost 100% positive that she is an empath in real life. I don't know enough about Paul Rudd but he looks like a Normal to me.

            Thank you for your response and don't worry about not being able to write back soon. Take care and I hope that you are able to have all the balls under control and stay safe! <3

          44. Getting There says:

            Happy 4th of July, Mommypino!!

            I hope you and your family have fun plans today! We will relax today and see what happens! I’m still deciding whether a car view of fireworks is in our plans.

            Thank you for your kindness and understanding! You are very sweet!
            Also thank you for letting me know about your previous comment! I had not seem it!

            I wish I had seen her in “Miss Saigon” and “Les Mis!” I can’t imagine succeeding in her field without having to come across a certain way even though inside you may be otherwise. She seems empathic to me. Do you know the actress Patricia Heaton? She’s funny and seems to be a caring, giving person. Her latest show was canceled after the first season. I read that in the fall some writers left due to misbehavior of her husband. When she posted her sweet Father’s Day post to him, I looked at his Instagram page and there didn’t seem to be anything about her. I have wondered what she is told or what she thinks that has had her stay. I know others can say that about any of us who saw red flags in our relationships with narcissists. I had a discussion with a friend who has been discarded by a narcissist. I tried to help her see what I have learned here. It is very different when one is on the outside and wanting a person to know their worth and it isn’t what they are receiving.

            I’m sorry as I don’t understand your husband’s joke about being married to someone from the Phillipines. I only have met sweet people who were Phillipino. I know that there are aspects to each culture. I keep thinking I want to look up the history of the Philippines and then I get distracted. When I visited a country that is connected to one of my cultures, I realized that my personality matched those in that country. It was nice to finally see where some of my traits connected.

            I was talking to someone about the victim narcissist I know. He was telling me some issues he was having with him. It solidified more of my belief that the guy is a victim narcissist. While I know I make mistakes in determining narcissist, normal, or empath, this page has helped some things connect. I would have assumed the guy is just older and that is why he acts in certain ways, but what I have learned here helps me see that it isn’t age that is doing it. Thank you for sharing about your mom and helping others understand the behavior based on what you experienced!

            I need to finish making breakfast. I didn’t want today to pass without wishing you a good 4th!

          45. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There, thank you so much for the greeting! It is very sweet of you. I hope that your 4th was also very fun. Ours was just a simple picnic in our yard and then my his and told the story of the 4th of July to our kids. My friend told me that people will bring their own fireworks to downtown since our city canceled the fireworks display but we decided to just stay home.

            I forgot that another reason why Lea Salonga was hated or bullied by a lot of fans in our home country before she became Miss Saigon was because she was the one chosen by a boy band Menudo to sing with them. It was a very famous Latin American boy band where the young Ricki Martin was a member of and when they went to our home country, for some reason their manager or producer decided to record a song with Lea Salonga. I can’t remember if she auditioned for it but it was a really big deal to be the only girl who got to sing and perform with them. So it’s mostly jealousy I think and she was accused of being able to do it only because she came from a wealthy family but it is obvious that she really has the talent. Although being born wealthy helps a lot in cultivating that talent but wealth can only cultivate talent that is already there.

            I found two short videos of her for you when she was 16 or 17 auditioning for Miss Saigon and performing as Miss Saigon. Too bad there was no video recording I can find of her performance on stage but she is the first Asian to get a Tony award for best actress. She also won other awards for that role. I hope the links will work.

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wTm5yHJsnWg

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fqqvXwSVgXg

            Speaking of theater, I was so sad about an actor who lost his life from CV 19. He seemed like a really nice guy and his wife seems to love him so much. They have a little baby and the whole thing is just so sad. Thankfully the wife has a lot of support from her own family and many people through social media. I cannot even imagine all of the pain she is feeling right now. I think that she is a very empathic person.

            I didn’t know Patricia Heaton but I will look her up.

            My husband doesn’t really make it clear what exactly those traits he is talking about are. It’s part of his humor to make it vague. His sense of humor is very narcissistic but it’s almost like a mockery of his narcissistic traits. When he teases me to people he makes it in such a way that people laugh at him and it is obvious that he is joking and it makes them defend me and pick on him which he seems to enjoy. It isn’t so funny when he made those jokes to his daughters though because they even added more insult to me or agreed with him or didn’t say anything but gave me look like I was a low life or something and then look away or change the topic. So my husband didn’t make those jokes about me to them anymore as it has caused me to lash out at him which he didn’t enjoy. He calls it the Pino wrath.

            He seems to refer to the “Pino in me” when I do something ditzy. And it hasn’t happened for a long time already but an example is when I made the hotel reservations for us in Hong Kong and then the night we arrived in Hong Kong I realized that I forgot the name of the hotel that I have paid for us to sleep in. So after a very long airplane ride, we had to go to the information booth of the airport and have them call several hotels to ask if we have a reservation there until they found the right hotel. When we were in the Philippines he got frustrated when the service was not efficient, was slow, or was provided erroneously and then the Filipinos would give him the sweetest smile and apologies and he was like “as if that makes up for it”. But a lot of Filipinos are super sharp and smart but I will admit that I can sometimes have ditzy moments although I have to say it hasn’t been happening that much lately since I went NC on all the narcissists. It’s like my concentration is finally getting better again. Another trait that he seems to refer to is my cheesy personality sometimes. Sometimes I tell him about how I feel about our kids for example and I end up being carried away with praising them until he rolls his eyes and make a sarcastic joke to bring me back to reality that I am just really biased about them. Just earlier I said something about how wonderful it is to have our kids in our life while we were doing yard work and he just made a funny expression where he reminded me of an old and exhausted turtle. Sometimes I get this little waves of joy that I ended up expressing myself to him and he couldn’t relate to it but he thinks it’s funny and it’s just the Pino in me. One thing that irritates him about me though is my tendency to be OCD with germs. He said that he couldn’t understand how someone like me who grew up surrounded by filth is so afraid of germs. Before the CV 19 I have already been keeping Lysol wipes and spray bottles at our house and use them in our kitchen which he couldn’t understand and actually annoys him. He also doesn’t like the way I do the dishes that are hand wash only because instead of filling up the sink and doing them as a batch I wash them one by one because I couldn’t stand the thought of washing all of the dishes in the same contaminated water like he has taught and demonstrated to me several times. He also is very annoyed at my skin care products because he thinks that I don’t need them but I keep telling him that the reason I look like I don’t need them is because I use them. Although when we were in the Philippines he was impressed with how even poor women in rural areas wear clothes that are neatly pressed and have their hair neatly brushed and even has a lipstick and smells good. He said he hasn’t been in a poor area where people are so clean and well kept.

            I’m so happy that you got the guy figured out. This site is indeed amazingly helpful with that and HG gives us so many tools that we can always use to keep us safe from getting entangled.

          46. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I looked up Patricia Heaton and I agree with you. Her husband does have some serious red flags and she looks like an empath. My guess is that she decided to stay because of their kids and maybe her religious beliefs or convictions affected her decision as well. It may be her view of marriage as a vow. Many Catholics would like to avoid divorce as much as possible. The church itself does not recognize divorce. I also think that she greeted him on Father’s Day for their kids and not really for him because she cares about how her kids see their interactions. I hope that she will find the best decision that will make her happy as she seems like a really nice person.

            I saw on the Internet that Emilia Clarke thanked the nurses who took care of her when she got sick. The words that she used in her letter where it was very descriptive and emotional reminded me that HG said that she is a Geyser empath. My three year old daughter has very similar expressions as her so I think my daughter will be a Geyser too.

          47. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            I took a break from work and came here and found a message you wrote that I had not seen before. I think I am missing them because I am not looking up. I’m sorry!

            It’s a hard decision on what to do come school year! We have received information that we will either choose full time back in school or full time remote. I don’t know the best answer either. I think children need the socialization, structure, and lessons on real life that school provides. The idea of him becoming sick is the con. I was notified by a friend of a chain connection to a positive case. I wasn’t worried for us but the idea brought up the idea that every day at school is a potentially chain connection to a positive case.
            Your homeschooling lessons sound great! Can my son join? 😀
            Does your son like horseback riding? Do you ride too?
            What does your husband think about school this fall for your children?

            What did you learn from the book? The little I have heard of their relationship it does sound like both Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton were narcissists. I saw an Instagram meme that said that a sign of a relationship with a narcissist is the constant on and off of the relationship. That’s very true in my experience but I just assumed it was because of my personality mixed with theirs.

            I really do appreciate your understanding of how I am feeling! There are times I wish we could communicate off this site so I could share more, but I am thankful for what we can share.

            I realized I didn’t answer some of your questions. I wish I could look to see what I missed, but when I scroll down my message I am typing disappears. I’m sorry! I do remember the shy one. I was very shy even in school. When I made friends, I wasn’t shy with them but I would be shy with them if I was the center of attention. I don’t know what happened but I am no longer like that. I don’t like to be the center of attention for any reason, but I like talking with people to include strangers.

            I spoke with a guy on the phone recently. He seemed very nice and even did something to help with a situation he didn’t need to. I am so used to narcissists that when I said something and he went quiet, I thought I upset him. I didn’t apologize as it wasn’t something to apologize about, which is a big step for me. I then realized that sometimes guys I interact with may just be nice because they are nice. It was a good lesson for me! He isn’t for me romantically but it was an opportunity to learn what I need now.

            I hope you are doing well!

          48. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There!

            No worries about not being able to answer all of my questions. I also know that I am not able to answer all of your questions as well and I also have a problem keeping track of all the responses to me as I don’t consistently get notifications. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don’t.

            I’m glad that you didn’t apologize even though you thought that you got him upset because you knew that you didn’t need to. It is true that some people are just genuinely nice and doesn’t expect anything in return but it can sometimes be scary after being entangled with manipulative people. My husband for example can be super helpful to people after he interacted with him and he realized that he could help with something. For example one of the tellers at the bank that I worked with mentioned to him that she was going to visit the Grand Canyon so the next day he brought to her all of the maps and guides he used when he visited there and she thought that it was really sweet and thoughtful of him and he told her all of the cool stuff about the area and how to save money etc. But when I asked him about her story he doesn’t even remember it. He just does things because it was something that he could do to help but he forgets it right away after he did it. I am not an expert yet but I think I am starting to see a pattern of the difference between a manipulative niceness vs just being naturally nice and I think it is when I am starting to feel that control is creeping in. I like the way HG used a descriptive symbol “his tendrils” as it does feel like a manipulative nice person’s tendrils are slowly creeping in whereas a genuinely nice person doesn’t attach you to them when they do something nice to you.

            It is a very hard decision indeed what to do this coming school year so I decided to not even mess with it and just home school. I wish that your son can be my kids’ friend. Would love for them to Zoom someday.
            My son loves to ride horses but he’s not that good yet as he is only six and his motor skills are not that developed yet to really control a horse. I can only ride horses that are broke and small and I’m not that good at it. People normally have to be around horses a lot before they can be really good at riding them. But it’s still always fun whenever I get a chance to ride one. Do you like riding horses too? Does your son love horses and other animals?

            my husband lets me pick the curriculum but he said he doesn’t want me to get another one of the science curriculum that have too much religion mixed in it. Last year I got this preschool science curriculum that teaches really well about animals but it also criticized the theory of evolution many times and my husband said that he doesn’t want a science curriculum that closes our kids’ mind about the theory of evolution before they even get a chance to study it. He said that he doesn’t want to destroy our kids’ natural curiosity by telling them that something is bad before they even develop their own critical thinking. So I still haven’t chosen the science part but I already purchased the language arts and math. I totally love the math that I got from The Good and the Beautiful. It’s so amazingly integrated and thorough, I have never seen anything like it before.

            I haven’t finished the book as I have been extremely busy with our summer school. Last week we studied about ocean and we learned about different sharks and whales. My son’s favorite of course is the great white shark because he’s a boy even though he’s empathic. Just like his favorite dinosaur is always the t-rex. This week we are studying about feelings and emotions. We are following this lady called Ms. Jamie with her virtual preschool and the kids totally love her. They watch her 30-minute videos once a day and it gives me a little free time while they are learning. She has free videos on Youtube too.

            By the way, regarding my cheesiness, it is probably more because I’m a Geyser than me being a Filipino. When I have read Emilia Clarke’s letter to the nurses and doctors, it almost looks like something that I would have written years ago (before my efforts to appear more like a Normal instead of an Empath). I’m sometimes as expressive as hers but I’m not as animated and energetic as she is. If you watched the Lea Salonga audition video that I sent you, my personality and expressions are closer to Lea Salonga and the other Filipina girl who was also auditioning for Kim in that video. But maybe it’s a cultural thing but I know inside me I really am a Geyser. My daughter though is totally more expressive and animated. Her expressions are so funny and fascinating. She always gets complimented for being adorable and cute. Although at this point if my husband could read this he would already be rolling his eyes haha!

  2. MommyPino says:

    Hello Getting There,

    I hope that you will find this as I am unable to reply directly under your comment.

    Regarding erosion of empathy, there is a movie that I love that is free in Amazon Prime: Instant Family with Mark Wahlberg and Rose Byrne. The teenage foster child there looked like a narcissist but actually I think she might be a Super Empath. I think she had an erosion of empathy because of her situation. I think that you will like the movie too!

    Thank you for your advice. You’re absolutely right, I was an only child and I only visited my cousins during the summers and sometimes on weekends so I didn’t really see how sibling dynamics work. Another mom told me that when her kids fight, she doesn’t try to find out who was right or wrong. She just tells both of them that if they fight, they both get time outs in their rooms regardless of who was at fault. I have recently been trying this and so far it is working!

    I do wonder about Drew Barrymore too. PSE told me before that Barrymore might be a Greater and she had a lot of convincing arguments. I believe that she has a very high IQ. It is really hard to be really sure though because she is so amazingly sweet. Her love life also seems narcish.

    We watched Scoobs last night and we loved it! I don’t know if you have seen it yet and I don’t want to spoil it for you but yes, there is a famous narcissist there who played himself and he even described Daphne as an Empath!! My kids love the Scooby Doo show on Netflix and they have seen the entire seasons so many times already. It’s like their kiddie version of Days of Our Lives. They talk about Daphne and Fred breaking up or Daphne not being nice to Fred or the gang replacing Daphne etc. It’s so funny. Does your son like Scooby Doo too?

    I had to look up feeding fetish as well. I have never heard of it. People seem to come up with new stuff all the time.

    I prefer watching the news because I can do house chores while listening to it. I don’t really watch it. It feels like even if I leave the living room to do laundry or tidy up around the house I will still be able to hear the same story later as they repeat the stories. I totally understand the negativity and it is coming from both sides. It is sad that this is where we are right now with the media.

    I think that it is wonderful that you choose to stay safe. My brother is doing the same thing as his state is also now opening. He is disappointed with people not wearing masks. They have some deaths just a half mile from where he lives. My husband and I don’t really dine out that much even before Covid19. But next month we will go to the resort with cabooses for our little boy’s delayed birthday gift or celebration. Until then we don’t really want to leave our county. I heard that Lake Tahoe still doesn’t allow people from outside to visit. If someone is stopped by a cop and the person doesn’t live there they get fined.

    It sounds like your Mother’s Day was just as special. Your son is definitely the reason to celebrate and I’m glad that you felt gratitude and love on that day. ❤️

    1. Getting There says:

      Hello, Mommypino!

      I’m so glad you were able to post that other message and point to this one as I hadn’t seen it! Without notifications I just look to see if you post.

      I’m sorry if I sounded like I was correcting the type of love they had! I didn’t mean to. I think Agape love can be considered platonic love as it would not be as people describe for romantic love. I remember that my ex-so, not ex-husband, shared his thoughts on different types of loves. I wonder if narcissists ever feel like they have reached Agape love. I assume Midrange may think they have.

      I loved that movie “Instant Family!” I cried and then thought of adopting. I realized that I did not have the calling or situation to adopt. That’s very cute about your kids and Scooby Doo! That must be fun to hear! We haven’t seen it yet but I look forward to seeing it and seeing who the narcissist is. Disney+ is showing “Hamilton” in July. There are two songs on there that makes me think of some narcissists in relationships, “Burn” and “You’ll Be Back.” I think Hamilton was a narcissist but can’t figure out what kind.

      Since coming to this site, I have found myself dividing people in three categories: narcissist, normal, and empath. There are times I step back and remind myself that I can be wrong. What is it that I am missing that may change that category? Is it knowing that your mom abused you and thus your anger as a teenager? Is it knowing I have OCD tendencies that sometimes impact my reactions to situations? Is it knowing how I was when I was involved with my romantic relationships? Or is it like that movie where that teenager felt she needed to protect her siblings while protecting herself as well? It’s as you are saying about the erosion of empathy. Yes there are characteristics of narcissists that either can be shown early on or shown as time continues such as constant lying and trying to control another. The illustration of empathy, though? As you shared you have been called a narcissist on this site whereas not with those who know you in person. This site can bring out the vulnerable in individuals who have learned how to hide feelings or thoughts. It’s where some have felt free to share in a way that they can’t elsewhere. It’s a great quality of this site and one of the reasons I have stayed. It’s also one of the issues I struggle with when people call another a “narcissist” here as I have no idea what emotions buried deeply is being tapped, or what voice someone is finally able to find and use use. I guess I am recognizing that I am not the best judge in using empathy in determining another because I know what I am like when my empathy erodes. I’m a bitch and have been called that directly or indirectly often. My bitchiness can come out in my words or in the look in my face that will say exactly what I am thinking. One time I told someone, who I believe is a narcissist, that his abilities needed work, in a more direct way. I didn’t feel bad about saying it but I felt bad about hurting his feelings when I learned that I had.

      At times I wish my son had siblings so there would be playmates, in house friends, and in house lessons to learn to handle the world when all is not fair. That’s great you have found a way to work it out at this point.

      How fun to celebrate your son’s birthday that way next month! I think it’s good to live life and be careful at the same time.

      1. MommyPino says:

        Hello Getting There!

        That is a really good question. It made me think, I bet you are right. My mom believed that she was the only person in the world who really loves me and wants the best for me. She has told me that repeatedly as I was growing up. That was her excuse to control every single detail about me and her reasoning why I should obey everything that she says without any question. In so many ways she saw herself as a martyr. The selfless daughter and mother and the victim sister. But she was aware that romantic love never happened to her. It made her question the reality of romantic love if it really exists or people are just pretending to be in love but they really just wanted sex or money or to appear that they have a happy family. She was a Victim Middle Lesser. My Middle MR sister knew that she was not capable of self sacrifice and she used to joke about it being the reason why she has no desire to have any kids. She was also aware the she never experienced romantic love but her reasoning for it is because she never found the right guy. She said that she doesn’t want to be in a loveless marriage so she stayed single. But when she became broke, she was upset that her bestfriend/not so secret admirer was already newly married because she was trying to convince him to live with her in a country in Central America and she said that they will have a really nice life with his social security. She lived at his house (for free) with his wife for a little bit but the new wife didn’t like her and he chose his wife because he said he can’t afford another divorce. She was so bitter because she said that he promised her that the big room that he added in his basement will always be available to her forever but he promised her that when he was still single. So she was blaming his wife for him not keeping his promise.

        No worries I was not bothered at all and was actually happy that you mentioned agape to me. It’s something I learned a long time ago and have forgotten.

        I’m looking forward to watch Hamilton in July. We haven’t seen Trolls2 yet but we definitely will rent it when it’s not in early access anymore.

        I agree with you about this site being a medium to voice out a lot of our hidden feelings and thoughts. It is safe because of many reasons including anonymity and being a venue for the specific topic of narcissism which we all experienced and understand. I stay here because narcissism has been a major part of my life and it is interesting to learn more about it and how it could still impact my life or the life of people that I care about. I also like reading other commenters’ various experiences because sometimes something clicks in my head from their descriptions. I also feel like I have something to contribute because of my personal experiences.

        By the way since you described yourself as someone who tend to hurt a narcissist’s feelings because of your personality, do you experience a push and pull kind of force between you and narcissists? Where after hurting them you feel guilty and then you want to mend it and then now you are even more obsessing about the narcissist? I am asking because you didn’t grow up in an abusive home and I wonder if it is equally strong in empaths or stronger in empath’s from abusive homes.

        In some ways it is good and bad to have siblings. I’m still not sure if fighting with siblings will not scar them for life but you and other people have told me to not worry so I will just try to not worry.

        Thank you, we are so excited but we haven’t told our son yet because we just want to avoid any chances of another disappointment. It will be a great surprise! 😊

        1. Getting There says:

          Hello, Mommypino!

          Oh I hope nothing will cause you to have to change the birthday surprise! How great will it be to see that happy surprised look on his face!

          That’s interesting about your sister’s best friend. I’m glad he chose his wife over his friend but the excuse isn’t very loving, if it is true. I hope their relationship became stronger in spite of your sister.
          I think what you are describing about your mom is what I saw with my romantic relationships. They believed it when they said that they loved me. When I called each out on it and said “you don’t love me because you do this and that…” I can see how consciously that could hurt a person, even if subconsciously it was about control and fuel. Your mom’s “love” was abusive and toxic and no less her definition of love.

          I have to admit that I sound like your mom and sister when I evaluate my love life. I have loved romantically but I have not been loved romantically if I throw out the times a narcissist said he loved me. I actually had a man listen to a story I told him, search for the item in the story, and bought it for me all with the intention of sex. At least he was honest about his intentions before anything happened. Maybe he is a normal, and I should go look for him and see if he is single and has changed. LOL

          I think what happens with siblings is based on parents. Siblings fight, but if parents show love and security with all, the impact as adults won’t include the trauma of the Golden Child versus Scapegoat. We now joke about things that happened in our childhood, but I think it’s because neither of my parents had a favorite and encouraged us all in our own personality ways. I know you and your husband will be equally loving and encouraging for each as their own person, and that they don’t compete against the other or have to be exactly alike to please anyone else. Good recipe for success in my opinion.

          I have a personality that verbally and facially hurts narcissists, empaths, and normals. Whenever I find out, or on my own think, I have hurt another then I apologize. I don’t like hurting others, but I also don’t have the personality to handle when someone’s narcissistic trait is being used in a negative way in certain situations. I usually can keep my thoughts and feelings inside, but there are times when my thoughts become words. My emotional empathy doesn’t have to be eroded to hurt some narcissists. I don’t set out to hurt them but I don’t recognize that my level of sensitivity is not the same as some others.
          The only way I recognize myself in a push-pull situation with a narcissist, though, is romantically. When there has been romantic involvement, something changes in me. I can’t explain it. I have many individuals in my life who are narcissists and they have as much impact on me as any other person. For some when I apologize we can move forward. I may have learned to not trust them to the same level or not put as much of me into the relationship.
          There are others I can let them go or learn to coexist in the same world if need be. My feelings are as equal to what i feel for a stranger on a bus. That romantic component though seems to be the crazy glue for the push and pull. If I can somehow put the romantic part away, too much pain or no longer there, then the crazy glue isn’t as strong. Did you have it with all of the narcissists in your life or those in specific roles?

          1. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I think that it is a good trait for you to be able to easily express yourself when something irritates you or you see something bad. For me I am just learning to do just that. I used to bottle up my emotions and a lot of times the person who got me upset would never even know that I got upset. I had a private way of releasing my anger with somebody and it was mainly through my old diary where I basically told God the things that the person did to me. With my entanglement with my sister, I still had difficulties but I was more grown up by that time and more confident from what I was able to accomplish by that time so I did speak up but I applied the business like approach of speaking up that I learned from school. We had an agreement and I thought that it worked but it didn’t so I eventually used the narcish approach that I saw from my mom and also my own narcish approach which is centered around defiance. I just sabotaged everything that I can sabotage about her being superior than me. She became nice to me again but I already knew that she cannot be trusted. She disappeared from my life when I moved to my husband’s house and I didn’t see her again until she was close to being broke. There was no push and pull energy between us and I still knew that she cannot be trusted but I got hoovered because of my personal standard of obligation to a sister. So I think you are right that the push and pull probably only happens when we are romantically attracted to someone. There was no push and pull between me and my mom and it was also more because I felt responsible for her because she doesn’t have any other source of money aside from me. It would be inhumane for me to financially abandon her. And I never lost my caring for her wellbeing even though I thought that she was not good for me. You are right about the crazy glue in romantic relationships. I don’t feel that crazy glue with my husband. Maybe we can add that as a red flag. The crazy glue is hard to describe for me too. It’s like my brain is in some kind of haze.

        2. Getting There says:

          Mommypino,
          I forgot to say in my last message that I am very thankful you are still here! I think you have such great insight to share, and compassion and understanding to give. You also are a good friend!

          1. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I just submitted my comment but I am not seeing it as under moderation. I don’t know if it went through. If it didn’t I will try again tomorrow.

            Hope you are having a wonderful week!

          2. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting a There,

            It seems like my earlier message didn’t go through as I am not seeing it under moderation. But I was able to copy the first half of it. I will finish the rest tomorrow. Nite nite!

            “Thank you Getting There! You are so sweet!! Thank you for being my wonderful friend here as well. ❤️

            You’re so right. It was their definition of love and to then it was real even if it was about control and fuel. They also don’t have empathy so when you tell them the things that they do that isn’t loving they can’t put themselves to understand how it affects you but their instinct makes them feel attacked and so they go on the defense and asserting control. A person with empathy would at least consider what you are saying even if they are being hurt or feeling attacked.

            I think that it was a blessing that the guy showed his true colors right away! I’m glad nothing happened. It sounds like he is a narcissist but even if he is not he still sounds very shallow and self absorbed. Someone like that would not be good for an Empathic person. I doubt that he has changed or will ever change. I know you’re just kidding about looking him up but you definitely deserve a good man.”

  3. fiddleress says:

    The Antidote to all those fairy tales?
    The following is a text I give my teenage students as an introduction to a course that I do :

    ” Once upon a time…In a land far away,
    A beautiful, independent, self-assured princess happened upon a frog
    As she sat contemplating ecological issues on the shores of an unpolluted pond,
    In a verdant meadow near her castle.

    The frog hopped into the princess’s lap and said:
    ‘Elegant lady, I was once a handsome prince, until an evil witch cast a spell upon me.
    One kiss from you, however, and I will turn back into the dapper, young prince that I am.

    And then, my sweet, we can marry and set up housekeeping
    In your castle, with my mother,
    Where you can prepare my meals, clean my clothes, bear my children,
    And forever feel grateful and happy doing so.’

    That night, as the princess dined sumptuously
    On lightly sautéed frog legs, seasoned in a white wine and onion cream sauce,
    She chuckled and thought to herself:

    ‘I don’t f***ing think so !’ ”

    (Anonymous.)

    Either not an empath princess, or one who knows how to apply logic !

  4. SoldierOfLuv says:

    Absolutly HG

  5. fiddleress says:

    I guess Father Christmas doesn’t quite fit in here, but for some reason I thought of ‘him’ as I was reading through the list of illusions in the article.
    It was extremely traumatising for me when I got confirmation from my parents, at age 5, that there was no such thing as Father Christmas, and I’m not kidding ! First big disillusion of my life, first time I realised I’d been conned. To me that ‘man’ was the epitome of the force of good, benevolence and … well, love, in the world. Which became a very scary place from then on.

    So I made up for that loss by becoming a big fan of The Little House on the Prairie – that Ingalls family was the exact opposite of mine. I had to believe that that sort of family life could be achieved, if I was to survive mine. And I had to believe that one day, I could start a family in which everyone would be so nice and loving with everyone else – except I’d live in a city…
    By the time I had become a young adult, I was cynical on the outside regarding romantic love, while craving it deep inside. But even trying to hide it never protected me from the wrong encounters and the hurt.

    I have noticed lately in the British press some articles about how “arranged marriages” might make sense after all. I find the idea abhorrent, but when I read that, I thought it showed our modern, and yes, Western, idea of love is being put into question.”

  6. Getting There says:

    Hello, Mommypino!

    I hope you find this! When I wrote it in response to your last message, I couldn’t post as I couldn’t put in my name information.

    Are you ready for Easter? I didn’t plan ahead well so what the Easter bunny normally brings will not be in baskets. I am working on peace with that considering how blessed we are this Easter. Are your eggs ready to be hidden?

    I have texted with my friend! Her new symptom is apparently a sign that she is getting better according to her doctor. It’s great news! I’m sorry as I am not always clear when I communicate. I am not the meal planner. My friends used to joke that I would not survive an apocalypse. I am now personally thinking there is some truth to that joke.

    The Texas Lt Gov is a Republican. I don’t know enough of the facts of this virus but struggle with the idea of only the people with known risks staying at home. There have been cases such as a 21 year old in Spain who had cancer and didn’t know. They found out when he died of the coronavirus. I know many people who either can’t afford with time or money to see a doctor who could be at risk and not know it.

    What that boxer is doing is great in giving of his time and money! Hopefully he will start wearing a mask, even a homemade one. It’s hard to figure out who is a narcissist when they give so much. Normals and empaths make mistakes; and some narcissists give a lot of time and money. I wonder if people would guess that HG is a narcissist in real life. I would assume many wouldn’t.

    That is surprising about not being allowed out or even sleep in another room. I’m sorry your mom did that! I don’t understand why she would. That was very sad to read about that little girl! I hope her parents are in jail for life! Those poor children living full time in the horrors with no escape even to school or to go to a loving relatives or neighbord! The damage that this virus has done both in the short term and then the long term is sickening and heart breaking! It’s great that politicians and others recognize it. If only there was a way to stop it right now.

    My ex- husband is a narcissist, but he isn’t always wrong in some of his decisions when it comes to our son. He’s not always right either. LOL

    That would be fun for the kids to have a reunion at the local beach when things are safe! Can you suggest it to all? My son misses his friends. His school isn’t sharing pictures. I have tried to get a few parents to download an app for the kids to video chat, so far they haven’t which makes me sad for my son. I almost sent a “WT” to those particular parents but chose to leave it alone.

    Do you enjoy the playing around that your husband does with you? Was your husband your typical type that attracted you?

    Just in case HG is away from the blog this weekend, I want to wish you a Happy Easter!! I hope it is a beautiful time with your family!

    1. MommyPino says:

      Hello Getting There 🧡

      I will write more tonight but I just want to send you my Happy Easter greetings as well. 🐣 ✝️ 🌼

      I’m sure that you and your son are going to have a very beautiful celebration with the spirit of Easter regardless of what is in or not in the basket. 🧺. I was also thinking about the benefits of this lockdown to the kids (who don’t have abusive parents) wherein there is now less clutter and noise and have a stronger bonding with their parents. We tend to be festive but it’s not necessary to have an enjoyable time. My son’s birthday is coming up soon and more than life itself he wanted us to sleep in the caboose resort close to the border of California and Oregon. We told him that we had to cancel the reservation and he was disappointed for a minute but he quickly got over it and never mentioned it again. He said he is happy to just have a party with his family. I thought kids really don’t need a lot aside from knowing they are loved and safe.

      1. Getting There says:

        Happy Easter, Mommypino and all!

        It’s not Easter as I write this but it will be or be afterwards.

        I’m so glad you found where I wrote!

        I’m sorry to hear about having to change birthday plans for your son! That sounded like a fun way to spend a birthday! A home celebration with the family sounds lovely! I wonder if his friends from school can do electronic birthday greetings as a gift. I would say cards or pictures but an OCD tendency kicked in on what could be on those. It’s great that he understood and found excitement in what can be! He has a very good and understanding nature! I agree that children need to know they are loved and safe.

        I like how you are thinking of the positive! Thank you for that! There is that difference for families now where the rush and the constant on- the-go is not there. I have seen more families out walking, playing in the yards, and being creative in “camping” or other activites at home.
        My son and I hang out more except during the week days when I am working.

        I am putting baskets together tonight. All I want is the candy. LOL

        I hope you have a beautiful day for Easter!

        1. MommyPino says:

          Thank you Getting There, I hope that your Easter is beautiful too! The candy is the best part indeed lol. I’m looking forward to it too but I’ll try to discipline myself and have only a few. Good luck to me with that lol.

          I’m glad that you and your son are having more time to hang out more. My husband is at home more too and it has been nice and the kids love it.

          Enjoy your Easter together and I’m sure that he will love the baskets you’re putting together. 🧡🐣🧺

          1. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            How was Easter with your family?

            I understand needing discipline with the candy. LOL I decided to “support the local store” and buy extra candy. That’s my excuse at least. LOL

            What a benefit for your family to have the extra time together! With your husband home more are you able to find more “you” time even though it is the same house?

            His fist reaction was unimpressed. As the morning continued, he seemed more interested in it. I am raising him to not think candy as a treat as I want him to not be like me and go overboard with it when he can have it. On the other side he is not as excited with his basket as I get with mine. LOL

            How was the egg hunt and the baskets with your kids?

          2. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,
            I forgot to say that I think that it is great that you are making an effort for your son to not be very addicted to candies. It is a really bad habit that I wish I don’t have as well. I cannot have candy in the house because I will end up reaching for them. I’m glad that your son warmed up to the non candy treats later in the day.

            Your story reminded me of last Easter when I decided that I will just do a few candies for eggs and put wooden letters on the other eggs so that it will be educational too. I just pictured them being excited to see the letter Y or the letter J and say, “Look I got the letter J!!” When my kids were opening the eggs they were unimpressed with the eggs that have letters and my son started calling those eggs duds. My husband was laughing at me and asking me what was I thinking? Poor kids lol. So this year I decided to stuff some of the eggs with coins. They were very happy and excited to put them in their banks. My son gave all of his candies to his big brother while my daughter kept all of hers. She is the candy fan. For some reason my son is not into sweets. He usually don’t even finish the candy even after biting it and saying that it was good. He would just throw the rest away. I wish that I am like him. My daughter on the other hand is like me lol. But I told her she can only have two of her candies a day and I threw away some of her candies without her knowing too.

          3. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I forgot to add that my stepson also doesn’t like candy and actually never eats it. But he brought the candies home so he could give it to the helper who visits him weekly. My husband also is not into candies that much. I wonder if it’s genetic for all three of them.

            Also I apologize for my very long message explaining my husband’s humor. I was having struggling expressing myself and describing it the way I want to. Also I have given examples of why my husband and I are both flawed but actually at least 90% of the time we don’t have conflicts and because we are both changing to improve we are both running out of reasons to have conflicts lol. Marriage with a non narcissist is not as eventful as marriage to narcissists. Our events are mostly doing yard work together or watching movies or planning a home improvement or planning a place to take the kids too. Even with me being damaged from my upbringing it still does not cause the kind of drama that narcissists create because I relent and I don’t try to achieve control or be superior when I realize I am wrong. And I also change. Some changes were easier for me and some changes were more challenging for me. But also I never doubt that he has my back and I never fear that he thinks I am bad. The difference of how my mom or sister corrected me versus him correcting me is so big because he doesn’t get personal (I never get painted black). So back to you I believe that you are ready indeed and you totally deserve to be with a non narcissist who will always have your back and be a pillar of support for you and not have you feel that you are standing on shifting sands.

        2. MommyPino says:

          Hello Getting a There, I hope that you are enjoying your Easter.

          My kids are napping soundly right now exhausted and happy from the egg hunt. My stepson is here as well for the hunt and dinner. We have been visiting him throughout the shelter in place because he needs our support but he has been very good with his self isolation as well anyway.

          Thanks for the ideas. Unfortunately I don’t have any contacts with his friends from school. But his class had a Zoom meeting for show and tell so he saw most of his classmates and friends last Thursday. I’m sorry that your school hasn’t organized a way for your son and his classmates to meet even virtually. Maybe you can email your son’s teacher if she could organize a Zoom meeting?

          “ I wonder if people would guess that HG is a narcissist in real life. I would assume many wouldn’t.”

          I wonder the same thing too GT. I have a suspicion that a lot of people in his life would have a major cognitive dissonance to hear any suggestions that he is a narcissist. I have seen several commenters ask how HG’s ex girlfriends hasn’t figured out HG’s identity yet or discovered Narcsite and realize the similarities. My guess is that a lot of them probably have not even realized that they were victimized by a Narcissist. A lot of them probably didn’t even realized that they were abused. What if a lot of them actually believed that the relationship didn’t work out because it was their fault or they had shortcomings? I remember one of HG’s articles where he saw a letter written to him by a former IPPS that he tucked inside the book. That woman believed that it was her that had the shortcoming. She didn’t sound like she believed that she was abused. Another one was the lady who remembered all of the dates. She hoovered him like she didn’t even know that he abused her. And then there are also some who are too afraid of him like Leslie and the other former IPPS who had daffodils planted at her yard. I believe her name is Andrea. So those ones will probably never mess with him to expose him.

          Regarding my husband, I believe that you have asked me about him before but I was unable to answer. I enjoy his playing around very much. It’s the way that he does it. It’s like his way of including someone or getting the person to come out of his or her shell. His older daughter used to comment that he can insult his patients and they would laugh and say, “Oh Dr. A, you’re too funny!” He’s even worse when his big brother is around whom I think is an UMR. His daughter said that the two played cards against some guys and they were cheating those guys with their bluffs and the guys never figured it out. Although she thought that those guys were stupid.

          The first time that I saw my husband walk through the door of the bank that I worked for, I thought that he was attractive, distinguished looking and tall. I live in a redneck area of California and at that time it was uncommon to see highly educated people who look distinguished and has an elegant air about them. I actually think that he was the only one. Also the moment he parked in front of the bank my coworkers looked like mice watching a cat walk in. They were telling each other, “Dr. G is here! It’s Dr. G.” So it intrigued me. The moment he walked in I smiled and greeted like I did with all customers and my smile made him chuckle so he went straight to my window. My MR co-worker (KC) was telling customers that I was my dad’s love child after I told her that day my life story and prior to my husband she has already told two customers that and it was annoying me but I didn’t know how to handle it at that time so when my husband figured out who my dad was and he said that he was his patient, I knew that KC was going to tell him that so I decided to beat her to it and told him myself that I am my dad’s love child and that made my husband laugh like he didn’t know what to say and also because I said it with a big smile like it was just my way of introducing myself. I think I made a big impression on him because ever since then he always went to my window when he went to the bank and even if I had a line of people on my window and another teller was available he would wait for me. Although I had a lot of customers who waited for me too he was one of the die hards. And each time he joked and played with me and picked on me too. Even at times when my window was closed because I was assigned something else so someone else would help him he would still talk to me and joke with me and he was facing me while the other teller was helping him. So it was like that and then my MR half sister realized that I had a crush on him so she called him to tell him that I have a crush on him and he can ask me out. And he did ask me out and that was the beginning of our relationship. So to honestly answer why I fell in love with him, it’s because he’s funny, I find him attractive, he’s intelligent and I can talk to him about things that most people here would give me answers or thoughts that I will find boring or too simple if they are even familiar with those things. He also said that he likes how I would give him perspectives that he didn’t have or has never heard from others. So in that respect we are well matched. I also like the way he carries himself. I remember when his younger daughter was going to college and we were doing the college tour the student giving a tour asked him if he’s a senator or a politician because he looks familiar. I think it’s because of the way he carries himself. I have always been attracted to funny, intelligent and tall men and that was the UMR or maybe LG that I briefly dated in my home country was too. Except that I never saw myself falling in love with someone 28 years older than me. It might be a daddy issue but it doesn’t mean that my love for him is not real. In fact it probably made my feelings for him even more intense. I also think I may have attachment issues where I probably attach much easier than normal people. But that’s probably a separate issue and I think that I have learned to control and deal with that already.

          By the way, last time you said that you have an update about your former friend? Did you get a hoover?

          Also, how is your coparenting with your ex husband?

          1. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I just wrote a long response and then accidentally did something and caused it to disappear. LOL

            That sounds like a great egg hunt with needing a nap afterwards! How wonderful that all of you could be together on Easter to celebrate!

            Your coworker is a piece of work for sharing that information. Good on you for showing her she had no control or power. Although your sister is not a kind person to you and not someone you recognize needs to be in your life as she causes hurt, I wonder what would have happened if she never crossed that line and called him. Would he have had the nerve to ask you out on his own? That’s a romantic story that he became a loyal customer in order to joke and interact with you. Cute!
            I like how you are willing to analyze situations and other to include yourself. I can understand how some would assume daddy issues and attachment issues considering your childhood. I also think some use psychology to try to explain things that may not be the case. Where you came from and where you settled are small community like. I don’t live in a large city or small community, but I find it absolutely difficult to find a person who catches my attention. I can’t imagine what it would be like if the pool was smaller. Not only was he able to stand out and attract you, his personality kept your attention. If many are not doing that, then attraction would build, would it not? It is less about age and more about personality and connection in that case, in my opinion. I have dated older men. I joke that I have uncle issues and not daddy issues as they are not old enough to be my dad’s generation. Not all older men are attractive but personalities of certain ones attract and maintain the attraction. It isn’t easy to brush off the attraction because of who that person shows to be whether he is the same age or 35 years older.
            Have you been hoovered by your ex narc or do you have a solid no contact?

            That friend came back. She had drama in her life and wanted me there. I am thinking she is codependent. At first I jumped back in like I normally would. Then I decided that wasn’t working for me. I told her that I don’t trust her. That part didn’t seem to bother her. We are still in contact because I can’t justify impacting others by completely not talking if I can put up boundaries. I have and it is working for me so far.

            After hearing and reading other coparent stories, I cannot complain about anything with mine. Ever since I have learned why and how, his actions and words don’t have the same impact on me. We have very different parenting styles of which I hear often. Sometimes I think that certain aspects have been a balance like when I am being overly protective and would choose to not have my son do things that his dad does with him. Certain times have built my son’s abilities and confidence. My protective reaction helps my son realize that there are still dangers that need to be respected and not think that he is invincible. Other times when my ex does or says something that I don’t think is in the best interest of our son in any capacity, I have to balance my want to protect my son as well as consider possible ramifications. Very few would identify my ex as a narcissist.

            Impressive breakdown of what you have gathered from HG! HG, is she correct in her breakdown? I didn’t read the book about Leslie. After reading some comments on it, I thought it best that I didn’t for my sake. Andrea must think of him as a psychopath or sociopath as that is the typical belief when a person tracks another who has gone off the map and then shows themself in a very patient way instead of the immediate “aha I found you.” I would agree with you on all points to include that other exes probably thought it had to do with them when it came to the devaluing and then disengagement. Based on the Valentine’s reading, I will assume his coworkers don’t see him as a narcissist as some were willing to actively play a roll in his revenge plan of another coworker. Whether her personality didn’t help her or not, I can’t see many others willing to be an accessory to a revenge plan by a known psychopath or narcissist. I do wonder about his family. I thought I read a comment somewhere where he said his family knows his diagnosis. How have they not discovered his work as HG then? Do they not do research on the diagnosis or what else they learn from his doctors? I wonder how the empaths in his family handle his relationships and them possibly not knowing. Do they struggle on wanting to provide the truth?

          2. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            Have you thought of doing a Narc Detector on your friend? I have noticed from the comments that sometimes people have a hard time figuring out if someone is a narcissist or a codependent (and sometimes a super empath or a standard empath also gets mistaken as narcissists but because of other reasons). I think in the case of codependents, both narcs and co-d don’t have a strong sense of self and boundaries. The narcissist’s boundaries are too closed like a big wall whereas the co-d’a boundaries are almost non existent but sometimes the co-d’s boundaries almost look similar to the boundaries of an overwhelming angel type of narcissist too. Maybe when you do a narc detector there will be more red flags that will be detected and will make it conclusive what your former friend is. But I think that since she has done enough things that have hurt or undermined you, you are totally right to leave that friendship and find better relationships. From Chained, both narcissists and Co-D’s formed from the same environment but the Co-D didn’t fully transform into a narcissist. They probably didn’t have the genetics to be a narcissist. So I think it is understandable why they almost look the same and people confuse the two. Except that Co-D’s do not need fuel, they have empathy so Negative Fuel makes them feel bad or even guilty, although I am guessing they might react similar to a Narcissist when it comes to receiving challenge fuel because I have read that Codependents also need ‘control’ very much. I think from what you have described where your boundaries are working even though you are not NC with her, you are probably correct that she is a Co-D.

            I’m glad that your co-parenting is not a nightmare situation. I agree I have read terrible things too. I like how you both balance it coming from different directions or approach to give your son different perspectives. It might even be advantageous for your son. I remember a story shared by Tiffany Trump about her fond childhood memories of her dad. She said that her mom controlled her diet and would never let her eat candies or any junk food so she was always happy when Trump visits her and snuggles Almond Joy to give to her lol. I don’t know if her mom is a narcissist but it seemed like Trump who is a narcissist was able to balance it out for her by letting NB her taste candy. Although he probably did it to assert control and superiority over the other parent, the child was unaware and enjoyed it. I think that you are doing a great job that you are able to appreciate the other side that your son gets from him even though it is something that you don’t agree with or not in line with everything of how you want to raise your son. But at the same time you protect your son and make sure that he is safe and has clear boundaries of what is right from wrong. I agree that your protective reaction does give him confidence and makes him feel safe. I have read that kids do not feel safe and confident at all when parents do not give them boundaries. Just imagine driving on a bridge that doesn’t have a fence at all. It is scary and that is why treating a child like a Golden Child is still abuse and creates a feeling of lack of control for the child.

            I will write more later tonight but I will send this now so I don’t lose it.

          3. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I also keep forgetting to thank you for your patience in corresponding with me. It really sucks to write a long response only to lose it and you still write another response. I really appreciate the time that you give to me.

            Regarding your question about my husband, my husband said that he has had a crush on me too but he would never have asked me out because of our age gap. When my sister was talking to him on the phone he told her he is worried he will not be able to give me the life I deserve because of our age gap. That he would be too old and I would take care of him or he would die and leave me alone. She said to just ask me out and see where it goes and she told him to just live his life and follow his heart.

            She had been convincing me to ask him out because she figured out that I talk about him too much that I was smitten by him. But I tried so many times and was not able to do it. In my home country it is still somewhat of a taboo for a woman to ask out a man. Many women are trailblazers regarding that culture but I am just the kind of person who ends up following the cultural norms. It’s not because I am not authentic but it’s just because I just don’t have any desire to disobey the norms. I’m just an authentically boring person lol. So I owe it to her for doing that. She had an ulterior motive though. We were both living at our dad’s house and she wanted to live there all by herself but she can’t kick me out because our dad told our brother who was the executor to allow me and our sister to live there rent free until we are ready to leave. It was also a pretty Victorian style home which was made during the Victorian era and our dad was the only second owner. Everything was restored faithful to how it was originally designed but the appliances and technology inside was modern. She had been referring to it as ‘my’ house to her friends even though it was ours and I live there too. I was also a pain in her butt because I rattled to our brother about the things that she was trying to do to the house and the stuff that she was trying to give away to her friends. I also voted against her all the time so she wasn’t able to do stuff that she wanted to do to the house such as paint the walls purple pink etc. So she was very happy for me to leave and I was very happy to leave as well because I didn’t have to put up with her anymore and I get to live with my big crush who treats me like a human being.

            Thank you for your perspective on the daddy issues. You are very kind and I think that you have excellent point. Before my husband I have never dated an older man although I have had a crush on a professor once but it was just a secret crush that I never told anyone. That is a great point about being in a small community where it is easier to stand out. I honestly still have not met any man here in our area that I believe I can have a decent conversation with and will hold my interest for a long time like my husband. And it is not just about educational level or intellect, the personality also affects it very much. When I went to a university here when my dad was alive I was looking at the men in school and thinking wow, none of them are boyfriend material. They all swear every two seconds and they talk about stuff that I don’t care and they act like they are all that. It must be terrible to be married to someone like that. Then with my husband our personalities really match. He said that he would never date someone my age if not for my personality. He said that I’m very different from women my age who grew up here. I think my home country is so behind even culturally that my culture is actually closer to the culture in my husband’s generation.

            The narcissist never hoovered me and the possibility is close to zero. He was never my ex because he just flirted massive to me and it caused me to be obsessed. He gave me an opportunity to have sex with him at our house while he was working here which I evaded. I never gave him any contact information and I told my husband that he had put the moves on me. So the hoover bar is super high and super solid for me. He is also probably a LMR which means he will not try hard unless it is me who reach out to him which I never did.

            The narcissist from my home country hoovered me when I got to the US. But I was so upset at him at that time and was in a very prideful mode that I was very cold with my reply to him and told him how beautiful California is and I am here to stay etc. My Trait Detector consult by the way said that my most dominant narcy traits are Pride and Defiance and followed really closely by Vanity by just a couple of points I think. He didn’t hoover me again for a long time. Then after a few years I forgot why I was upset at him and when he started corresponding with me again I was nice and friendly but I was already dating my husband who has my full loyalty so the hoover was not productive for him. Although he started posting things that got me riled up on his FB which got me deleting him. There has been no hoover since and I don’t expect any unless we happen see each other in person in my home country. He has a very extensive fuel matrix too so he doesn’t need me. His family owns all kinds of businesses there including a trademark of an international clothing brand for our country and a shady nightclub where politicians and wealthy people get their prostitutes. He was about two years younger than me but he already got his MBA at the same time I graduated from college because he got in a special program in the most expensive school in our country. When he graduated his dad bought him a garment factory that he can manage. He’s also a columnist at a newspaper and he is a president of a commerce organization there. He was trying to groom me as his DLS and not IPPS. He comes from a religion and ethnicity where marriage is arranged with a woman from the same religion so I would never qualify as an IPPS. Out of curiosity I looked at his FB and he’s already married to a woman who is obviously a Magnet-Carrier empath and from that religion and ethnicity which has women very submissive and perfect codependents. I didn’t feel anything at all aside from the curiosity which was satiated by just looking at the profile page.

          4. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            So for a definitive answer regarding the narcissist from my home country, I have a solid NC. I even avoid the places that I know he frequently goes whenever I visit there. I know (from past experience) that if he accidentally sees me somewhere he will approach me to say hi (even though I have unfriended him with no warning) and he will be very charming and polite that it will be hard for me to be cold to him in person or maybe I will be charmed enough to be interested in having a little chat with the rich kid who dated me and took me to the fancy places and I can just see myself falsely believing that I have everything under control which can be my downfall. So it’s best to just avoid that scenario.

            You gave excellent points regarding HG. Leslie is also terrified of HG but I don’t know if she is able to realize that he is a psychopath or if she just thinks that he hates her to the core. I agree with you that Andrea probably thinks he’s a psychopath especially after she saw those mysterious daffodils. She is probably terrified of his network as well and has all kinds of ET that he can easily destroy her life.
            I’m not familiar with the Valentine reading. Is it the one where he had the help of a Super Empath who heads the receptions department to give his coworker a lesson? I agree with you. I also think that the SE didn’t know what HG is and also she believed that what she is doing is just teaching someone a lesson. I don’t think that I would partake in that just because I am someone who usually follows the rules and what I am supposed to do in my job even if I hate that person and I am guaranteed protection from repercussions. I also do not like plotting against someone if that person did not do anything massively bad against me or is not a threat to my family or security. No matter how annoying that person is.

            With his family I think that they know his diagnosis but they don’t think that he would be interested in being an expert on narcissism and teaching people about it since he already has a successful career. I do wonder though about his sister Rachel who has a narcissist ex and is a co-d if she has not read HG Tudor’s work and recognize who that person is. How is HG able to stop that from happening? She is in that niche of people who search for and need his work. The Empaths of his family probably already got used to him always having a new woman. He may also not always introduce his IPPS to them. But they probably just got so used to it and desensitized that they don’t think about it anymore when HG introduces a new woman. I remember HG also saying that they believe that his relationships do not last because of the nature of his job where it is more challenging to maintain relationships.

          5. Getting There says:

            Oh my gosh, Mommypino, I am so very sorry!!

            After my long comment to you about HG, I realized that I had taken something you wrote and used it. I then realized I didn’t remember it from the article so I worried that it wasn’t public information. I then sent HG an email asking him to delete that part if it isn’t public and it came from the forum of which I don’t go to or otherwise private. After I sent that email I realized that I just threw you under the bus. I didn’t mean to but that doesn’t change the fact that I did. I was so concerned about sharing non public info I didn’t think about my words and how wrong to you they were. I am sorry!!! I hope you can forgive me!!

          6. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There, No worries. I am not aware of what happened but whatever happened I don’t mind because whatever I share here in the blog is not private to me even though it looks like I am in a private discussion with somebody. No need for you to apologize and I also apologize to you if something I did or said made you feel uneasy. I totally trust you and even though I suck at getting jokes and sometimes comprehension I am at the point where I totally trust you so if I get hurt from something that I misunderstood I will not take it against you but more likely against myself now. So you don’t have to worry with me. And I will try to not jump into conclusions from point A to Z. It is something that I am going to work on about me. 😘

          7. Getting There says:

            Mommypino,

            The wrong is on me and what I did. I responded about HG to you. Once I posted, a thought came in my mind that I didn’t recall seeing a name to the daffodil one nor remembered reading Andrea before your comment. Instead of thinking logically that I don’t read or listen to everything HG does nor trusting you, I went into panic mode that I just shared something that wasn’t public. In asking him to remove the name before he posts my comment, I added that I got the name from your comment and that I don’t follow the forum. I threw you under the bus basically. I didn’t mean to but meaning to and doing are two separate things. I am so sorry!!!!! There is no excuse for doing something like that to a friend. I do hope you can forgive me.

          8. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting a There,

            I really don’t see anything wrong with what you did. I myself wasn’t sure about the name because I always mix Andrea and Amanda and I have to pause each time to make sure that the angel is Amanda and the daffodil ex is Andrea each time I write their names because I tend to confuse the two. Just like at our house I tend to accidentally call my son my stepson’s name and my stepson my son’s because their names start with the same letter. So I probably passed on the confusion to you because I didn’t sound sure of the name which understandably caused you to be unsure also if the name is correct. You can’t trust me with everything as I make a lot of mistakes and either faulty memory or incorrect interpretations or assumptions so it is perfectly good that you verified or didn’t take my word for it when you aren’t sure. So no worries at all and no need to apologize. I mean it from the heart. ❤️❤️❤️

            By the way, speaking of being wrong, I am wrong about my assumption that my older MMR stepdaughter would consider donating plasma. My husband told me that she told him that there is this chiropractor who has 200 test kits to find if you have the antibodies for the Coronavirus. My husband thinks it’s a scam but it’s another issue. Anyway she and her husband took the tests and she is upset that the tests say that her husband has the antibodies but she doesn’t. Her husband is a medical rep that goes to the hospitals to sell medical devices and he got sick and had himself tested for Coronavirus but his results went back negative. And yet this chiropractor’s test says that he has the antibodies. My stepdaughter is upset because she wants to have the antibodies so she can roam around. They believe that when the economy will open they will only let those with antibodies leave the house and those with no antibodies will have to stay inside. There’s no factual basis on this just stuff that she has read or the chiropractor told them. Donating plasma was not even a figment in her thoughts.

          9. Getting There says:

            You are so sweet, Mommypino! You did nothing to cause confusion! What I did was because of me. I was not confused of the names, I was confused if the name was public information. My reaction to that was wrong to you, my friend! I have been trying to think how I can fix things. I am now wondering what “fix” means in this situation. I think I just want you to know that what I did by telling HG that I got the name from your post was wrong. The actual name wasn’t wrong, but pointing my finger at you in where I got the information is where I was wrong to you, and I am sorry!!

            It seems weird to comment on the other areas as if I did nothing and as in “let’s move forward.” At the same time you are sharing great things and inspiring thoughts I would like to share with you. I hope that’s ok.

            I can’t believe that chiropractor office! I hope someone investigates them! It is wrong for people to scam others during times like now. I agree with you that there is not enough information about the antibodies. Some are operating on the concept of what happens with other viruses. How did your step daughter handle it when her husband was sick? Did she help him or use fear as a way to stay far away from him? When I read how you thought different narcissists would be when it came to donating plasma, the idea of type of narcissist made sense. Both my ex- husband and the man after him would donate. They wouldn’t make a public announcement if they did it either. Neither appeared to need fanfare from the masses, then again it seemed that each got it from many without pushing for it. A victim narcissist I know would probably be too busy sharing his “poor me” stories of the illness. A Somatic I know would be too concerned with getting back to the gym and his workout plan.

            I never thought of the word “legacy” until coming to this site. Now I attribute it to narcissism. I know some cultures who want family and friends to remember them when they die but I don’t think of that like a legacy. I consider the idea of “legacy” to be having a significant impact where it changes the course for others, not just a memory.

            I have not done a narc detector on her. It would be interesting to see the result but I think I am correct. She hates the idea of hurting others or animals. She wants to help others but doesn’t go overboard in it. When she is called out for lying which she does often, she mostly tries to justify the lie but she accepts that she was caught in a lie. It sometimes is a joke with her too. Her connections with some are not what they seem and fulfill certain things she needs from others. She is a nice person. I just have to be careful in what I believe with her.

            There is an online charity event going on where 100% of the money is supposedly going to organizations that help with food for people impacted by the pandemic. People and organizations have packages for people to bid on or put their name in to win. It was interesting going through and reading. Some looked great; others screamed “narcissistic” to me. I didn’t put a bid in but liked the one Rob Lowe put in. I don’t like golfing but I think he would be fun with whom to go. He seems narcissistic but I don’t think he would judge another’s skills. Matthew McConaughey has one too. If he is not a normal or empath, I don’t want to know. I want to keep my image of him. I just think it is great that all of these people are giving of time or possessions to help others!!

          10. mommypino says:

            “ It seems weird to comment on the other areas as if I did nothing and as in “let’s move forward.” At the same time you are sharing great things and inspiring thoughts I would like to share with you. I hope that’s ok.”.

            Hello Getting There, I was thinking about this and I felt that I was not acknowledging the dilemma that you have when I just said no worries. You truly felt you did something wrong and wanted to apologize while I truly felt you didn’t do anything wrong and felt wrong to receive an apology. My approach to just move on, I realized, is actually kind of dismissive to how you feel so I apologize for that. I think that maybe we can just cancel off with our two apologies and accept each other’s apologies?

            From the additional information that my husband got, the chiropractor got the test kits from a med rep and it is not approved by FEMA but they can use it but there is no guarantee that the results are always accurate. My husband said that the Coronavirus test at the hospital where our son in law got tested only had a 75% accuracy. The test was not from the government but something that the hospital came up with on it’s own. From the symptoms, it sounded like he really did get the virus. I told my husband to bring up the plasma donation idea to them. Maybe if he brings it up to them they will like the idea and donate.

            I honestly don’t get the marriage of my stepdaughter and her husband to be able to answer your question. I have been NC from them since I found this blog and it’s more than a year now, maybe even two years already. From the last time I was interacting with them, I have observed that my stepdaughter rules the house and he just goes along with everything she wants. He is always traveling to sell medical devices and he is rarely home with her. He earns a lot of money (more money than some doctors) and she is a stay at home mom and she buys all of these Instagram boutique clothes and expensive shoes for their kids. Her kids only wear Uggs, Mini Melissa’s etc. The boutique clothes costs about $75 a piece. But aside from that I have no idea what happens inside their family when no one is watching.

            My UMR brother in law would be like your N-ex. He has helped people and has done charity work. He does what is right most of the time, but he provokes everyone, triangulares, manipulates for his entertainment, has to always one up, and has no empathy. But I don’t think that he will do anything unethical.

            I agree with what you think about the cadres especially the Somatic. I believe my older SD is a Somatic but some things about her still makes me unsure.

            That is a really excellent point you made about legacy being connected to narcissism. I think that you are right and I have never thought of it that way. I think that you nailed the essence of why someone would want to leave a legacy for the world. And sometimes I have thought of the empaths who have made a difference in the world and they would have to be very highly narcissistic as well to think that they have what it takes to make a difference. I think that you are absolutely right.

            I think that you’re right about her. It does sound like she is a Co-D because she has empathy. But I agree that it’s best to keep a safe distance because she has a lot of unhealthy habits or behaviors.

            Lol I agree that Rob Lowe is probably a narcissist. I am unsure about Matthew McConaughey. For now I think he might be a SE. I have seen him stick up for some values that was unpopular in Hollywood. His wife also seems very happy. He seems private though as I don’t know much about him.

            Have you seen the video of Michael Bublé elbowing and yanking his wife? I think that there is something going on there behind closed doors. He has opened up before that he can be violent and has a temper. They deny that he is abusing her and his wife actually got upset at people saying that she is being abused.

          11. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I should have respected your initial response to my apology. I didn’t and am sorry!

            I read am article about a gentleman that has it. He had two negative tests before the positive tests, but his symptoms aligned with the virus. Reading that article had me worried, but then you shared about how your son-in-law took a test created by the hospital. I can now see how false negatives can be more prevalent than I originally understood.
            They have found that pink eye and a foot lesion can also be symptoms of this illness. Between false negatives and either being asymptomatic or having symptoms not normally connected, I wonder what the true number is at this point. I thought of you the other day when I watched Pink give an interview about their cases of it. She said she had had bad asthma, but the illness didn’t hit her as hard as it did her 3 year old son. Pink seems like an empath and you could see the emotional toll of having watched her son sick during this interview.

            It’s probably better for your son in law that he travels so much. That’s great that you have nothing to do with them! It is worth the peace when not being inundated with the negative and mean. It’s a good lesson for your children to know that they can choose who and what behavior to accept in life!

            That’s great that you no longer get hoovered by the one who wanted to make you a side piece. I feel bad for his wife and wonder what kind of behavior she feels she has to accept versus what behavior she truly is good with. I know that what we are taught as children of what is normal and what we should want. If that is all is seen, then it is reinforced that that is desired behavior. I was telling a friend some things that was happening with my ex significant other, the guy after my ex husband. My friend understood the behavior although he doesn’t behave that way.It surprised me as my friend seemed to identify other people’s behaviors that were off. Then he said something where it clicked, they both come from similar backgrounds and cultures. The behavior was normal for them but my friend was introduced to other ways and that’s why he was able to understand the behavior while not be like that himself.

            Your brother in law does sound like both in many ways. The ones with the good facades like that are my danger.

            I didn’t know that about Michael Buble! I would never have guessed. I love his voice and he was funny in concert. I am a fan of Josh Groban and think he is an empath who keeps getting caught by narcissists. Matthew McConaughey seems like he doesn’t even bother with a facade nor does he act like a jerk. I have become obsessed with the charity site in reading the new packages and even watching some of the videos posted. One guy was like “you can pay me to come share my thoughts with you.” No thanks. David Robinson posted one. He and Tim Duncan are basketball players who many don’t know because they are empaths and played the sport for the sake of the sport, unlike “King” James who is as narcissistic as they come.

            My son recently asked me about a man in his life and my feelings on him. I have none but now I am wondering if that means I should consider it.

          12. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I also apologize for not respecting your initial apology. 💗

            I have to clarify that the hospital where my son in law got tested was UC Davis and that is why they were able to come up with their own test kits because they are a University and they have scientists. But regular chain hospitals use the one from the government which is very accurate, it’s almost 💯 accurate, I forgot exactly how much but it’s in the high nineties. The ones from China are scary, they have only a 30 percentage accuracy rate so Spain had to withdraw them. You are correct, FEMA had to issue conditional approvals to many test kits that a lot of organizations had to come up with to solve to shortage but now private companies like Abbott also produced test kits that are extremely accurate like almost 100 also so things are going to get better now when it comes to testing.

            I am so glad that my stepdaughters are not part of my kids’ life right now. My older stepdaughter is the “sulky” one and whenever we visited with them she was too cold to my son and would sulk the whole time and even glare at him. He was only about two years old. Even my husband noticed it (everybody noticed it during my son’s birthday parties too and privately commented to me about it). He has asked her about it so many times and her only answer is that the situation is hard for her and she is still working on her feelings but it never changes. I felt that being regularly glared at by an adult sister might affect his self esteem so I decided to disengage after knowing here at Narcsite that she will never change.

            I am so thankful that I didn’t become a side piece of that guy. A lot of his behaviors made me feel that way and when he just all of a sudden disappeared after I told him that I am leaving for another country, it has confirmed that I meant nothing to him. He told me that his dad also has many mistresses and his mom turns a blind eye and is still happy. Their family pictures look like they are the perfect happy family. He also told me about his sexual affairs with married women. I think he was normalizing those situations to me by telling me those things like they were just normal. I told myself that I had no control over being my dad’s hidden love child but I have control over making a choice to not be someone’s hidden woman.

            Yes my brother in law was a dangerous one when he was younger. He’s a bad ass kind of MR. He almost looks like a Greater. I have stories about him that I will write later.

            I was shocked abo ur Michael Bublé as well and I used to like him. I hope that he really isn’t being a jerk to his wife and I hope that she is safe. The way that they first met was a huge red flag as well. He has no boundaries which is a major red flag.

            I agree, I have never seen McConaughey act like a jerk either. I really like his Oscar acceptance speech. I think that he’s a deep thinker. Although I wish that he would gain more weight. He has gotten too skinny now. I really like him in his chick flick movies when he had some meat still.

            That charity site sounds really interesting. I think that you are right, it totally reveals a lot about those celebrities that participated there. Charging people for your thoughts is totally narcissistic lol.

            I think feelings develop naturally but your son asking could prompt something to develop. I think it’s super cute that this guy is already liked by your son and maybe your son is seeing something that you haven’t seen yet?

          13. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            Thank you for sharing the information on the testing!!

            Did you see Andrea Bocelli’s concert for hope? I missed it but recently took a break from watching Chris Mann for Amazing Grace. They showed sights from all over the world just empty. The mix of the song and the visions were beautiful and sad at the same time.

            I would be interested in reading more about your brother in law. I wonder how much more alike he is from my two.

            Your son is blessed to have you protect him from her jealousy and spite. Although she won’t recognize it, it’s her loss.

            That was very powerful how you stated that you had no control of being your dad’s love child but what you won’t allow for yourself! The respect and boundaries you establish for yourself is great! I have met multiple couples who have an open relationship. To them it is a way of enhancing their relationship. I have wondered about the emotional and physical risks to a non-monogamous relationship. I respect these decisions are made as consenting adults. I don’t respect if one party doesn’t know and cannot make their own determination, or if they know but are forced into it against their own desires.

            My son does like him but I am not sure what led to the question. I don’t have an attraction to him. He is a nice, patient, funny guy who is very different than what I have been attracted to before. As good as that should sound, and as ready as I am to move forward, I worry about the impact on my son and this guy. He seems like the type that I can walk over. I wouldn’t want that.

            I do find the Challenge charity interesting to observe as well as hope they make their goal. I won’t lie, I want Super Bowl tickets. I have hardly spent money on a chance to win, so it will need to be all luck at this point. The auctions have made me feel bad. I hate when packages don’t have a bid or the price has to be reduced to get a bid. It makes me feel bad for the person who submitted the package. I became happy when I see that a package finally gets a bid.

          14. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There ❣️

            I googled Andrea Bocelli’s Amazing Grace and it was very moving. Like you said, showing all of the empty landmarks with his amazing voice in the background was both beautiful and sad. Thank you for telling me about it as I have enjoyed watching it. I hope that humanity goes back to normal as soon as possible. 🙏

            I think that a non-monogamous relationship can work if both are into it and are respectful of each other’s boundaries. If a narcissist is involved though there is more likely to be conflicts and emotional abuse. I remember the letter that Jim Carrey’s ex girlfriend wrote before she committed suicide. She said that he has introduced her to prostitutes, cocaine, mental abuse and disease.

            It is interesting that your son brought him up. Maybe he saw the interaction between you and the guy and it felt nice for your son and aso the way he interacts to your son. Attraction is extremely essential in a relationship but it can develop. But if there is no chemistry it cannot be fun. Even though you have a dominant personality, it is not possible for you to walk all over him because you are an empath. I mentioned my grandparents in the other thread, my grandmother was the dominant empath and my grandfather was the sweet, cute, lovable and devoted empath. My half sister used to say that the reason our dad has behaved like he was strong is because he probably got a complex from seeing his weak dad. That is not true and goes to show the twisted and hypercritical way narcissists look at someone who is painted black. I asked my dad what he thought of the relationship of his parents and if his mom dominated his dad. My dad said that they loved each other and respected each other. They have different personalities but they deferred to each other. My grandmother was the type who was very active in the community always fighting for someone while my grandfather was the jovial one that everybody loved. So I think that if there is attraction, it can work between a dominant empath and a non dominant one as well. Although if that impedes the attraction from happening in the first place then it’s not going to work.

            My brother in law is a very interesting guy. I actually admire him but I keep my distance. When they were young he shared the bedroom with my husband because they were only about a couple of years apart. My husband was the nice kid, the one who always helped his mom and always the top of his class. My BIL had decent grades but didn’t study as hard as my husband. He had lots of friends and was very popular. He partied a lot and one time he had to be picked by their mom and my husband from being so drunk. Up to now he accuses my husband of being secretly happy that their mom was so mad at him and my husband keeps insisting that he was far from happy because he was actually angry that he made their mom mad and embarrassed. One time my husband stood up against a bully who has been constantly targeting this young girl in school for being unattractive. The bully told my husband to meet some place for a fight. When my husband went he was surprised to see all kinds of students waiting to watch the fight and his brother was there too. So my husband approached the bully to shake hands and the bully punched my husband right away and then kept on punching my husband until he was down on the ground. My husband looked up to my BiL and saw his brother leave shaking his head. That to me shows that my BIL didn’t have empathy. My husband said it was the loneliest walk home he had. But my husband said that his brother although not demonstrative really cares about him because a few days after that, he heard that his brother has confronted the bully and has beaten the bully to a pulp. I think that my BIL did the revenge more to assert superiority because my husband is an extension of him. Then there’s also this story when my husband was curious and got himself a copy of a Playboy magazine and hid it under his bed. Unfortunately his mom decided to clean under the beds and found it and she was so upset at him and my BIL was joining along condemning him (which I have heard is a MR move). Then when his brother got accepted in the military and left the house and my husband finally has the room for himself, he found a note from his brother to look at the box behind the shed and that is his inheritance from him. And my husband found a huge collection of Playboy magazines.
            My BIL has been married to an empath for a very long time. He does a lot of hot and cold with her. He often picks on her in front of us and he also often praises her exceedingly. He has a lot of people loyal to him and visits him regularly. One is this lady, about my age who is attractive and my guess is a Magnet empath because she would be the popular girl kind of personality. He said that he treats her like an adopted daughter. He takes pictures of her and edits those pictures in a way that makes it look like he is attracted to her beauty. And his wife goes along with it and is very friendly towards her and even compliments her beauty. During the wedding day of his stepson, my older MMR stepdaughter was outshined by this woman because this woman was having so much fun and sometimes flirty towards a lot of the guests including my husband (I was not in the picture yet as this has happened before we met and my husband was still a widower). So years after that, my BIL visited with my stepdaughters and for some reason that woman was brought up and m stepdaughter told my BIL that that woman was “fugly” and was flirting with her dad desperately and I think she called the woman a whore which got my BIL very angry and up to now they still don’t talk to each other. And up to now none of them tried to initiate any reconciliation. I got painted black by my BIL for a period because when I got pregnant for the first time and they found out that it is a boy, he called me and jokingly told me to name the boy after him and he told me which name to use. He doesn’t have biological kids and I was honored to do it. But my older stepdaughter got sad and was asking how come her brother was not named after their uncle but this new baby will be. And the whole energy was that there is a competition between my stepson and my son and my stepson is being disadvantaged to add to the fact that he is special needs. So to lessen the conflict I decided to just use my BIL’s name as a middle name for my son and I picked a different name for the first name. My BiL expressed dislike but in a veiled mindfuckery way one time I talked to him over the phone and my husband was totally unaware of it. He also started giving me present and absent silent treatments. But now I think I might be painted white again.

          15. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            Your brother in law sounds narcissistic. I can’t criticize the standing by during a fight. My younger brother was once bullied in front of me and I said and did nothing to stop it. I also didn’t take the extra step your brother in law did in a follow up of butt kicking. I felt so bad about what happened to him and also my lack of protecting him that I ended up making myself sick. To this day I think of that incident and feel horrible in how he must have felt alone and abandoned when he needed help or to know that someone had his back. I have apologized but it will never seem enough. As for your brother in law it is the flaunting of that woman. Has anyone asked him what is their relationship? You are very kind to be willing to give your son his name for the middle name. I would not have been as kind.

            I find it interesting how people can see the same situation in different ways. I noticed that happens with me and my siblings also. It’s great that both of your grandparents were empaths and could balance each other in the ways they did. I am starting to wonder if an empath/empath relationship is equal to a narcissist/narcissist relationship in that there may not be a balance. For example you believe your husband to be a normal. You balance each other and help each other grow in positive ways. If you are dealing with an issue of a narcissist or another, he can use his normal mentality to help you not stay in the same emotional mindset to go into a logical one. On the flip side, you can help him understand why at times logic may not be the best answer. I wonder if the ideal type of relationship for an empath is empath/normal.

            I have just realized that I have more work on me to be fully prepared. If I can’t be good at a relationship, then I don’t want to be in one. The man is nice and funny. I try to imagine being in a relationship with him, though, and I feel nothing. I am happy with just knowing him how I do. My personality plays no role in the interaction we do have which makes it easier for me to not steamroll him. I don’t want to be the woman that you see the guy sit there and say “yes dear.”
            My other concern is that I have read comments from loved ones of people who have been diagnosed with OCD. While I do not have the same situations their loved ones do, I have been thinking about how my two exes handled my OCD tendencies. I think because of the type of men they are and the type of tendencies I have it was easy for them to not be overwhelmed by my tendencies. Most of the time it was brushed off with jokes. Only one time did the most recent say “I’m worried about you.” It was a stupid thing and he said that trying to make it out to be a deal. I enjoyed looking at him like his comment was the most idiotic thing I heard and then went into reminding him why what I did was wise. He couldn’t argue.

            What do you think of the people who want to get back to things but not because of a need for a job or insurance, but their comments are about their liberties? I saw a picture of nurses in Colorado standing in front of cars who were heading to a protest. It was an interesting dynamic and one I can see being discussed in philosophy classes.

            I look at some of the people I consider have narcissistic personalities and can’t see them have a physical affair. I have no doubt many are having other kinds of affairs. As recently discussed with someone though, how people define affairs is different. There is a term used of “work wife” or “work husband.” I read something that stated that some people found it cute and funny if their spouse had one of those; and others thought it crossed the lines into affair. I wonder how many narcissists have the type of relationships their spouse is fine with and that is enough.

          16. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I think that we all have something that we regret in our past but the most important thing is to be able forgive ourselves and consider the fact that when we were young we weren’t equipped with the same wisdom and strength that we now have. I am sure that you will do anything to protect your brother and I am sure that he knows that.

            What I thought was weird about that story was that according to my husband (and he told this story on front of my BIL in a way where he thought it was humorous) my BIL left like he was so disappointed at how my husband lost and not because my husband was down to the ground bleeding. He didn’t even ask my husband if he was ok. It was like he thought my husband was weak for losing and was disappointed because of that.

            We haven’t asked him about that woman because we don’t want to make his wife uncomfortable. His wife acts like everything is normal. My husband also seems to not want to ask my BIL something that could offend him or could look like we are suspicious of him. We are also not likely to get a real answer. I have seen him respond to a question that he didn’t like and it’s a mixture of humor, evasion and sarcasm with a bit of a barbed remark. It is also weird how this woman lives in the same compound that him and his wife lives where the houses are very very expensive when the woman didn’t come from money and doesn’t seem to have a career that would make her afford that. I don’t get it and my husband doesn’t get it either. My stepdaughter also doesn’t understand why he got so mad at her for criticizing that woman.

            Thank you. My BIL is very important to my husband and my husband was totally on board with naming our son after his brother as well so I agreed to it more because of my husband. My husband looks up to him but he also cannot stand him at times.

            You have a really good point about Normal and Empath relationships. For myself, what you said is very accurate. My husband doesn’t coddle me like an Empath probably would when I am being difficult or unreasonable and he explains to me why my behavior is not healthy. And because I am not a narcissist I am able to see it after he explains. He is more resistant than I am in that his first reaction is defensiveness. But then the conflict makes him feel uneasy so he comes back to me and tells me that he will change it and he really does change it. He doesn’t buy into the Oprah way of reflecting on yourself and your past. He’s more like a Carrier empath where he moves on by making himself busy. I know what you are saying about how some empathic men may not spark an attraction from empaths like us. I don’t think that I would have been attracted to someone like my grandfather. Even just looking at how nice and sweet he was in the pictures makes me wonder how my grandmother became sexually attracted to him. He had a handsome face but he had the same aura as Mr. Rogers. He would be someone that if I lie in bed with I would feel so safe and zero sexual tension. But I am happy for my grandparents that it worked. And Mr. Rogers also found a woman who totally loved him.

            You obviously know what kind of guy will work for you and you have given it a very considerable thought. Your OCD tendencies can indeed be a challenge to some guys and you need a guy who will just look at it as part of who you are and not get overwhelmed by it and be able to brush it aside as just one of your characteristics instead of making a big deal about it. Kind of like how my husband treated some of my unhealthy behaviors when our relationship was just starting. My husband often joked that it’s just me or it’s just the Pino (the Filipino) in me to make light of it. The few times that I have lost my temper he called it the Pino wrath. But when he sees that he needs to take me seriously he eventually does and he can be a decent person to talk to as well although he wouldn’t be the type who will indulge in a self introspection kind of talk which I appreciate most of the times. I think that approach regarding your OCD might be better as well. So I think you are right that that kind of approach is less likely to be coming from an Empathic person and more from a Normal and Narcissistic person.

            I am disappointed with those people who wants to get back on things just because of their freedom. I feel that it is selfish. When all of this started I was really worried for the elderly and high risk people in our community and was not thinking about my freedom at all. My thought process was full of how people might be dealing with this and how my actions might be affecting someone. Even for the tiniest bit of my actions I tried to be conscientious. My cousin from my home country asked me if I can buy an N95 mask for him here in the US. I saw that I can easily buy it from Amazon at that time for him but I lied to him and told him that I don’t have access to it. I just had this strong intuition that there might be a shortage for the medical personnel and my cousin is not a medical personnel so it felt unfair to take it from the pool of supply to give it to my cousin who is not in a high risk environment. So even little decisions like that are affected because I am cooperating in my little ways. So for those people who cannot cooperate because their freedom is more important to them I am disappointed.

            I think that a lot of narcissists have that kind of non intimate affairs and I feel that that is how my BIL is with that woman. That is actually what is giving me a pause about thinking that my older stepdaughter is indeed NPD because I don’t think that she is the kind who would have an affair. She also only had two boyfriends, her husband her second. The only sign of possible promiscuity is that she modeled implied nude for photographers but that could just be vanity and her way to become a professional model. I wonder if that’s because her real cadre is Victim like her mom but she is highly Somatic in her lifestyle. So maybe she is just highly narcissistic although she is still extremely selfish and like a vampire of joy so I am keeping with my NC. But do you think it’s possible to be NPD without being promiscuous?

          17. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            Thank you for your kind words! I did text my brother to apologize again. I’m sorry your husband felt that way about how his brother was disappointed in him. Your husband took a stance and it took great strength for him to have done that only to feel he let down someone he respects. Your brother in law probably has explained it in a way that sounds like his wife would be jealous for no reason if she had asked. My ex was overly friendly about another woman and did it in a way that I thought it was innocent and even joked about it with him and with others. Looking back I wonder how stupid I have looked. Can’t change the past so I won’t worry about it.
            I think we all learn how to handle things by what role we play in our family and with others as well as the examples the adults in our lives show. It sounds like your husband realized that the best method is to just move forward. I understand that well!

            I’m sorry I said that I wouldn’t be attracted to an empath. I can imagine an empath being good in bed because he would desire to make it a good experience for both where it truly is both giving and getting. Some narcissists may have more practice but it isn’t a one size fits all situation. I think a normal is the perfect fit because of the emotional aspect. As you described about your husband, he can balance you and you can balance him emotionally. I agree with you about an empath and my OCD tendencies. He would either become overwhelmed or try to fix me. I couldn’t imagine a victim narcissist handling it either.

            I definitely see a narcissist not being promiscuous! When I first came to this site, I struggled with it as it didn’t describe alot of people I thought of as narcissists, to include my ex, with so much about DLS and IPSS. I then thought maybe all of them were cerebral who actually enjoyed sex when they had it. I have now come to the conclusion that sex is just one manipulation. If they have been able to obtain great fuel and control of others without it, then they do. Also my ex was able to have himself up on a pedestal compared to others because in his mind he never cheated on anyone. Physical is apparently his only definition of cheating. It gave him great pleasure to show the difference. It may be the same for your step daughter. She may have great fuel from attention but her ability to put herself on a pedestal compared to others may prevent the going further. I am the type who believes that men and women can be just friends so I can see how someone who doesn’t physically cheat, but otherwise cheat, may be something I would brush off.

          18. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I apologize that my reply has been late. I needed a break from social media as I have been very busy with homeschooling and I have spent too much time on the blog and have gotten behind with homeschooling. I will visit the blog less often (maybe once a week or so) and mostly just to keep in touch with you as my priorities in life has shifted. I am so thankful to be in this position now where I am able to not take other people’s narcissism personally anymore and to have been able to get rid of the narcissists in my life thanks to the knowledge from HG and to my own strength and decisiveness to follow through what he has been teaching us.

            I am sure that your brother appreciates your love for him and totally doesn’t harbor anything against you. We all change through time but I have learned that good people are always good people even though they make mistakes. And I’m sure that your brother has no doubt that you are a good person through and through the whole life that he has known you.

            Regarding your husband and his friend, I don’t think it matters if we looked stupid in their perspective. He is disordered so in his perspective he is superior to everyone no matter what you or anyone does. What matters the most is that we don’t buy into it. I don’t want to behave like a narcissist and it doesn’t matter to me if that means that in a narcissist’s point of view I am inferior. Their beliefs do not affect us. The fact is that you have been truthful and if he has not been then he was the fool and the jerk. He was the inferior (in my Empath point of view based on my empathic trait of Moral Compass). And that is also the point of view of the majority, even most Normals’.

            I agree that my husband’s approach is to move forward. I have noticed that it has been a very effective approach and has made his (and my life) almost drama free in spite of the behaviors of his ex wife and daughters.). It was something that I had a hard time doing before but from the perspectives that I got here from HG I was able to do it. The daughters are also both moving to Texas now and that even raises the hoover bar higher. I’m also thankful that my husband followed through with his promise to support my GOSO and was consistent with it and didn’t pressure me to change my mind even though at times he expressed deep sadness about the situation, he understood that it wasn’t my fault and didn’t gaslight need regarding the things that he saw that I experienced. I’m very blessed about that and I owe a lot to my husband.

            You raised excellent points about promiscuity not being an essential part of narcissism. You gave excellent reasons for when it is not and that applies to my older stepdaughter. I believe that my younger stepdaughter has the promiscuity factor but not the older SD. The older SD is probably one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen in person. I used to do commercial modeling in my home country when I was a teenager and in college I worked in the accounting department of an international advertising agency so I have seen a lot of amazingly beautiful women and my stepdaughter is not that far behind. Of course I am comparing her to the models in my home country who have been in the top ten of Miss Universe or Miss World competitions and I have to say they are really literally perfect as a whole package even down to the smallest details so it’s not a diss to my SD to say that she hasn’t reached that level but she is closely behind them. Their body types also give them an advantage that not a lot of women can attain even with work outs and strict diets. And they are not anorexic, they don’t have bones showing but they appear very slender with an elegant feminine curve because of their body’s bone structure. But my SD is close to that, she’s 5’11 and has a very pretty face and she almost doesn’t eat much so she is skinny, but she has the wrong body type for print and ramp modeling so her talent agency was trying to make her go to commercial modeling but she can’t act. So they dropped her after a year. Having said that, she is still one of the most stunning women that I have seen in person as a whole package and she is definitely above me in terms of attractiveness, she is well above average. In our little community, people treat her like she is the most amazingly beautiful woman here and it is totally understandable, she is really gorgeous. And people also treated my husband’s kids special because of who he is in the community and especially in the Mormon church. So I can totally see how she enjoyed being treated with deference and she is also very judgmental of women who go too far.

            I meant to ask how homeschooling with your son is going? With my kids, it’s probably an 85% thumbs up and 15% thumbs down. I feel that there’s too much computer screen based homework and the workload is too much for his age. We’re so lucky to have a big property for them to play and I don’t make him do all of the homework. We have a little forest in our property and one of my projects is to make it more play conducive. I am putting some hanging ladders on some of the trees and suspended hugglepods etc. My husband and I have also done a lot to our yard but now he is back to accepting patients so he’s back to work now. But we have enjoyed the time that he was here with us a lot. My son was crying earlier because his dad was going back to work after having lunch with us instead of staying home. He said he doesn’t want his dad to go to work anymore. So I told him his dad will stop working next year and I can start going to work. Then he didn’t want it either lol. He said he wants everybody to stay home together. I think he got a little too spoiled by the Covid-19 situation lol.

          19. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I’m so glad to read your post! I haven’t come to the site often recently myself, mainly to see if you posted as I don’t receive notifications. I think it is great that you recognize when you are ready to pull back from social media and concentrate on your home life! That’s great balance! It’s also very good that you have grown with your knowledge from HG and here to the point you are at, and I am sure you will continue to grow as you continue to put the lessons to work. I am feeling that I have learned so much also. I have reached a milestone when it has come to the ex-so after my ex- husband and that has given me a sense that I need to grow in another way. I took a break from the OCD tendencies and have thought about trying that again, but I push against that as I have realized that my tendencies protect me in some ways. I had a moment this weekend where I wondered if anyone would know me like my ex-so. Then I realized if he knew me well then he would have had better control of me. I guess he didn’t know me as well as I gave him credit.

            Thank you for your kind words. I know there are things I look at from my past relationships and wonder “what was I thinking.” It’s easy to be a Monday morning quarter back. LOL

            I knew a man who loved women from the Philippines. He would explain the beauty he found as being unlike any beauty he could see in others. I know you are beautiful on the inside and it sounds like you are as beautiful on the outside. Your step daughter may be physically beautiful but her beauty lacks as her personality doesn’t maintain the beauty. I joke with friends that some good looking people shouldn’t open their mouth as their personality destroys the attraction; whereas I have found that what others consider “average” are extremely attractive because the beauty inside pours out. I can imagine there are narcissists who enjoy the tease and then picky on who is “allowed” to enjoy the prize. I know some who do that with other things, so I can’t imagine sex being any different for them. As you are in a small town and the connection to the church is important for your husband, your step daughter may have realized how important it is for her facade as well. Texas is a great state! Different parts of the state have different personalities (cultures).

            You and your husband are blessed with each other! The support you give the other is inspiring! I’m thankful you share as it does give me hope that that kind of relationship exists! How sweet of your son to have enjoyed the time together! Your yard sounds amazing and fun! Have you thought about what you want to do when you go back to work?

            Homeschooling has been an adventure to say the least. I have to work at the same time but my son mostly doesn’t need my help. There was an English assignment that absolutely bothered me. It was the first time I wanted to ask what the heck is my child learning and why, but I didn’t and it is now done. His class isn’t doing much on the computer but he has a lot of time with TV and games because he finishes so fast. I don’t allow him outside without me and that is difficult while I am working. I am trying to take more breaks to spend time with him. It has been a lesson in trying to balance. It looks like Fall may help me figure out the right balance.

          20. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            My husband and I had a conversation about it and he is ok to retiring next year and letting me be the one to work. Originally we planned on him retiring and us living in Ecuador for one year, Philippines for one year and Portugal for one year and then coming back here. But the Covid-19 situation made my husband not want to leave the country. There’s a young podiatrist who is a son of a heart doctor here in our town and he wants to buy my husband’s practice two years from now after he is done with his residency. His dad is well known here so his last name will help him get a lot of patients trusting him instantly so this is an ideal place for him to start his career. My husband is thinking about the money he could make if he sells the practice versus just retiring and selling his office supplies and equipment per piece as a second hand. But he says that staying at home during the Covid-19 makes him want to be home more than be working. If he can stay home with the kids then I can go back to work conveniently. I will apply for a low starting position since I have no US experience but I don’t mind it because we have other sources of income so I don’t mind the low starting salary and work my way up. I think that I will easily catch up and get promoted. I just need to stay away from a narcissistic dynamic with a coworker. That was my pitfall in my previous work where ‘KC’ who was my coworker became a backstabbing friend who constantly undermined my confidence and played politics behind my back. My boss gave me a recommendation letter that went above and beyond with expressing how wonderful I was as a worker. Customers loved me too and often complimented how knowledgeable I am and that it’s amazing to meet someone that doesn’t have an attitude. So as long as I don’t let myself get embroiled in a dynamic where I start to feel toxicity creep inside me I will be totally successful. I will also not be transparent regarding my politics and other beliefs at work. I will just make sure that I just go to work to do my job and go home with my family. It’s easier to avoid taking things personally if I know that they have no clue what I truly feel or believe.

            I was thinking that it is probably more challenging for you to homeschool while working. I have been seeing posts from friends who work from home and homeschool and they have mentioned the challenges in balancing. I even saw posts about those with multiple kids on different grade levels and they only have one computer in their house. I was thinking wow, with all of the homework that my son has in his computer as a Kindergarten, I bet it is incredibly challenging to have more than one kid sharing one computer. Real homeschooling parents say that quarantine schooling is much harder than homeschooling because of many reasons including having the parent freedom to choose what her kids should study in a period. For example she can have her 4 and 6 year olds focus on animals and their habitats while her 8 and 10 year olds can focus on world geography and cultures in the same period. Or if all of them are old enough for a certain curriculum they can even study the same thing together and make it a family experience. The only issue I have with homeschooling is that I want to have a career. Socialization can be arranged so I don’t see it as an issue as well.

            Last weekend we had a real learning experience. My son saw a lizard and pointed it to us. I thought that I was going to be a brace homeschooling mom and so I picked up the lizard and did my best to appear confident. It bit my finger but it didn’t hurt because it didn’t have teeth. So I showed it to them and allowed them to pet it gently and they were too excited that my three year old couldn’t stop laughing and screaming (a future Geyser perhaps?). She asked if she could hold it so I had them sit together on a bench and handed it to her. She was doing so well and was chatting away when all of a sudden she saw the lizard detach its tail and the tail fell off on the bench and was violently twitching like something you would see from a horror movie. My three year old jumped away screening to get it off of her like she feels that the twitching tail was on her or inside her clothing. I calmed her down and said that I will let the lizard go away and for them to say bye to the lizard. They both said bye. Then I have a book called What Do You Do With a Tail Like This which talks about unique things that animals do with their body parts and it talked about how lizards detach their tails to distract predators so they can escape and then they just grow their tails back again within months.

          21. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            That must have been scary and a great lesson of nature. It sounds like you handled it amazingly! I had to laugh as I can see me handling it very differently where I would be the one screaming even if I understand why they do it. I think you are doing a great job homeschooling with that as an example! I have family who homeschool and they have said the same thing as your friends have said. I have friends with multiple children but the schools provided the electronics so that has helped. It has been interesting to see how education has changed during this time. I wonder what impact this will have on the importance of standardized tests. I hope it changes the system to be less in concentration of those tests.

            Living in those different locations would have been a great opportunity for your family and specifically your children. I believe that in order to understand that the world isn’t only one area, people need to travel and even live in other locations to include even in the US. I’m sorry that you won’t have that opportunity but maybe you can travel as a family. That’s great that your husband has an interested buyer already. I can imagine that he missed a lot with his other children while working and this opportunity of being at home sparked an interest in not missing as much with your children. It’s great that you recognize your talent and ability! Some want to start at the top but you sound very realistic especially in this job market. As long as you are in a field you will love, growth will come naturally. The good news is that you have a year to figure out what field you will love.

            I know it will be hard not to want to share of yourself, but I think it is a good idea not to talk politics at work. It is a divisive issue that seems to brings out defensiveness and other negative reactions. Many people make assumptions about a person without trying to learn more about the “why is that important to you” or “how do you see this politician do that” with genuine interest versus ready to argue. I will talk politics with people if I have already determined that it can be a discussion without attack whether we agree or not on politics. When people jump to assumptions because of politics, they miss an opportunity to learn about that particular person. If you and I were communicating off here, I would ask questions to learn how your background in the Philippines impacts your views on different political subjects. I have a friend who is a new citizen and I love listening to why she believes what she will vote the way she will. She and I don’t agree but we respect the other’s beliefs. Those kind of “get to know, not judge, you” conversations are the o
            ones I enjoy when it comes to politics. I had one the other day and it was fun, funny, and enlightening. We didn’t agree and still were able to move on joking and not judging. The work place is not a place to risk that.

            It’s Cinco de Mayo. I wish I could have a margarita tonight to celebrate but that will have to wait.

          22. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There, belated Happy Cinco de Mayo to you too!! We had a Mexican dinner last night. I made two kinds of tacos (carnitas and al pastor) and flan. It is really fun because one of the herbs that I planted is cilantro and it’s so cool to get cilantro for our tacos in our own yard.

            I hope that your week stays wonderful. Do you have any plans for Mother’s Day?

          23. MommyPino says:

            Also Getting There,

            Your thoughts on how a person’s background affects the person’s politics really got me thinking. What you said couldn’t be more true. A person’s political choices doesn’t really mean the person is good or bad or smart or stupid. It just means that political choices reflect how the person’s experiences shaped how the person sees the world and what is more valuable to that person. I absolutely love your approach and I think that if we all think that way then maybe empathic politicians would have more chance as the narcissistic politicians wouldn’t be able to take advantage of dividing and triangulating groups of people.

          24. HG Tudor says:

            Never going to happen and that is naive thinking.

          25. MommyPino says:

            HG, I know that it will never happen. It was just a nice thought. A little day dream.

          26. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            Your meal sounds awesome! I am not a fan of cilantro but all the rest caused my mouth to water! I ended up ordering delivery from a restaurant. It was great yesterday to enjoy leftover chips and guacamole. I plan on having a redo of Cinco de Mayo after a release of a vaccine with all that I missed this time: queso, margarita, etc. I’m not sure how hard one margarita will hit me at that point.

            I have no plans for Mother’s Day this weekend as our weather is not cooperating well to plan outdoor fun. I’m thinking a move to Arizona is called for in the future. LOL
            We may find a new movie that was released to TV to watch. My son is very particular about what kind of movies he will watch, though.
            How about you and plans for this weekend?

            I do believe that what people think and how they feel is inherently in their experiences. While I know that there is a DNA component, I think that a great deal can be tied to the experiences. I have seen it with my family as well as other families that even though people have the exact same DNA, they can have vastly different personalities and beliefs. Political discussions in my family can become lively and we were raised by the same parents. I think our observations from toddler time up, our personal experiences, our determination to adopt our parents’ teachings or find another to believe, all of that plays in how we see and interact with the world… and how we would like things to work for that world.

            I personally believe this pandemic could help bring out more empaths and normals in politics. I won’t hit upon any country leadership. I have noticed that people are paying closer to attention to the local politics of the mayor, congressional, senators, and governor. The empathic or normal ones seem to be receiving more highlights in the news and higher rating amongst their constituents. An example of a situation is the meat packing industry. Many people are paying attention to what is happening there for their own purposes, but then they read about the environment these individuals are being asked to work. Selfishly some people want these individuals to work, but they want them to be safe and not get sick. They look to the local politicians and leadership to make both happen. The local narcissists are being highlighted with their lack of response, their contradictions, or their leaning of one extreme or another. When faced with tragedy and fear, people seek assurance and action at the same time without extra drama. Is it possible people will forget come November? It is.
            I like your idea. It would be nice if possible!

          27. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            It sounds like you will have a peaceful and lovely Mother’s Day with your son. I don’t know if you have Disney Plus but we enjoyed the

          28. HG Tudor says:

            Mystery? Pizza? Cliffhanger?

          29. mommypino says:

            Haha HG, just my clumsy typing fingers. I’m not sure what I did there, that’s the mystery!

          30. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            It sounds like you are going to have a lovely and peaceful Mother’s Day with your son. Not sure if he’s a fan of Star Wars and I can’t remember if you have Disney Plus but they now have the last Star Wars movie.

            We’re going to an iris farm that we go to every year on Mother’s Day. It’s about an hour away but it’s totally worth the drive. No picnic this year because of social distancing but we’re so excited to see the flowers and buy new kinds of irises to plant. I also gave my husband a Godiva boxed chocolate torte mix and told him to bake it for me with the kids on Saturday. It is my day so I get to tell them what to do!

            I totally agree with you on DNA. I remember mentioning to you about how our genes affect how we become an empath but I don’t know if you replied to it because I lost the browser for that thread and I don’t get notifications even though I keep trying to subscribe. I can’t remember the name of the thread either. But when I had a DNA test, apparently there are genes that are associated with the Big Five personality traits. So according to my DNA, I’m high on the openness and extraversion, moderate on conscientiousness and agreeableness and low on neuroticism. I was thinking, with the crazy childhood that I had, if my neuroticism was moderate or high I would have probably had a harder time surviving. But also being an empath is also affected by how our experiences since birth allowed us to develop. And also, speaking of DNA, they said that it is genetic if someone dislikes cilantro. I didn’t have the genes that would make me dislike cilantro. It’s not my favorite herb but I feel like my taco isn’t complete without it. I also like it in ceviche.

            We have a restaurant that does curbside pick up here and they sell 10 tacos with a margarita for $10 on Tuesdays. I haven’t tried it yet but I would love to someday. It’s probably not good quality margarita but it looks good in the picture. My husband doesn’t drink so as a consequence I rarely drink. But he said he’s ok if I really have to have a margarita someday. Aside from being a Mormon, alcoholism runs in his family so he swore to never drink alcohol. He also blames alcohol for why his dad physically abused his mom. His dad even broke his mom’s thumb, just snapped it and then he blamed her for making him break her thumb. So my husband thinks that alcohol is evil. But I think his dad was a narcissist. But my husband is getting frustrated with me diagnosing people with narcissism so I just keep my diagnosis to myself now.

            I had to look up about the issue in the meat industry that you mentioned since I am not well updated with the news lately. It’s so sad that they are getting sick. I wonder what would be a solution for that. I would imagine them processing the meat in some assembly line or conveyor belt. I would think that making it safer would slow down production and decrease supply but it is better than endangering their lives. Have you heard of what happened to Sweden? I used to be so scared of people dying from the virus but the case in Sweden is making me rethink everything. My husband used to tell me that we are overreacting and that we should approach this more strategically while keeping our economy open and I disagreed with him. But it seems like that is what Sweden has done and it worked for them. He also doesn’t like Dr. Fauci. He said that he doesn’t have anything specific against Fauci but he just doesn’t understand how one person can have so much power and affect the way everybody lives.

          31. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I do like mysteries!

            The Iris farm sounds beautiful! It sounds like the kind of tradition that includes a picture of the family or just the kids every year. That’s cute that your husband will make that with your kids! Do you have a meal that you like on mother’s day? I am trying to decide if I want to cook or order delivery from a restaurant I haven’t had since before the lockdown.

            I do have Disney+! Thank you for letting me know! My son won’t watch Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, or most any of those other types of movies. We did watch Trolls 2. Have you seen it? I loved the message in it! It was teaching that we all don’t have to be the same and should enjoy the differences.

            Taco Tuesdays! A friend sent me a joke about how Cinco de Mayo landed on a Taco Tuesday but was ruined by a virus named after a Mexican beer. I would hope the restaurant near you would sell their best margarita as it would be good marketing to have people want to come in when people can eat at restaurants again.
            I can understand your husband’s point of view with the consideration of his dad. To experience and witness such abuse is sad and sickening! It also helps explain the brother a bit. His narcissism may be more charming than his father’s. It’s possibly like one son witnesses and says “I will never be like him” and becomes a normal caring father and husband; another son witnesses and says “I will never be like him” and becomes more sophisticated in abuse. I have a friend who drinks more than I do and she has alcoholism in her family. I understand that sometimes we need to blow off the steam of life and she knows she needs to be very careful. It’s a fine line to walk when that is in your family. It’s great that he doesn’t push his way on to you and try to prevent you from enjoying a drink. I don’t drink often but do enjoy a drink here or there. My main issue is the amount of calories in a drink. I like food too much to give up for a drink. When I don’t care about the additional calories is when I drink, if I have access. I don’t count calories but I try to be careful.
            It’s hard not assessing a person now that we have been here. I understand! I do it often in my head also.

            It is very sad about the workers at the plant. It must be hard for them. They work to pay bills; their work is extremely important to many in the nation; and yet they are working in bad conditions which could get them sick or even die. It’s like what some employees at Amazon have described as well. There has to be a way to fix the workplace and ensure safety and health. It may cost more money and a potential being in the red in the short run, but long run it should benefit all. Businesses are nothing without the people.
            I check on the situation in Sweden every once in awhile due to the choices the government have made. While their numbers may not be equivalent to Italy, Spain, and the UK, they have more deaths than their neighboring countries. I read in an article that per 1 million people, I think, they have more deaths than the US. I didn’t check the math on that one. Their economy is not as great as it was. A big part due to their neighbors in lock down; however, they have found that there are people outside the capital who are choosing to social distance during their free time and not spending as much money. In those areas outside the capital in Sweden, the people care about each other and will make personal sacrifices. There are many many in the US who care about others but there are some who just don’t. Beaches were shut down and they were still crowded and then those people left and went home to others. How many of those on the beach self quarantined based on their choice, after partying on the beach? There was a protestor who got in the face of a reporter even though the reporter asked the protester to give her the distance space. The protestor still got in her face. Another protestor didn’t social distance during the protest and came back and tested positive. In Michigan there was a gentleman who was a bus driver. He posted a 7+ minute, I think, video going off about a rider who was coughing without covering her mouth. He died shortly thereafter of Corona. Who knows where he got it but her lack of consideration could have gotten others ill. There are people all over the world like that.
            I look at Ebola as an example. Years ago there was an outbreak and they were having a hard time convincing people to not touch or bury the dead as customs and lack of trust were prevalent. The numbers increased until they could change some of the behavior during the outbreak. Sadly some of the survivors of Ebola, those who had it but were able to get better, became ostracized by their community so there was also long lasting emotional impact as well.
            South Korea has provided great results recently. The actions they took, though, would have quite a few screaming of rights violations. They have different experiences and took the actions they felt necessary based on those past experiences.
            My friend sent me a video last night of some guy providing “evidence” of how this whole thing is a conspiracy. He sounded like he was intelligent and provided information that would make most second guess and think “maybe he is correct.” My friend started second guessing as well. I think there are a lot of things about this situation that we will never know which makes it easy for people like this guy to sell an idea.

            If I don’t get to write with you before, Happy Mother’s Day to an amazing mom! I hope it’s a loving and peaceful day with your family.

          32. mommypino says:

            Thank you so much Getting There. You are an amazing mom as well! Happy Mother’s Day to you. I will write more on the other subjects as well. I realized I have to learn more about Sweden. I hope that your celebration is peaceful and happy. <3 <3 <3

          33. Getting There says:

            Thank you, Mommypino! You are very sweet!

            I look forward to reading your response. I hope I didn’t say anything hurtful in regards to your thoughts.

          34. MommyPino says:

            You’re wonderful Getting There. There was nothing that you said that was hurtful in any way. Enjoy your weekend and Happy Mother’s Day!! ❤️💕

          35. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            This is my second try typing. I lost what I typed earlier when I had to charge up my phone.

            I hope that your Mother’s Day was lovely. Did you cook or did you get take out? How is the lockdown going on your state? Is it starting to open again?

            The iris farm was beautiful. We got seven irises, five we brought home and the two we ordered to pick up in August. It was the first time the kids got out of the house so they were so excited. We didn’t have a Mother’s Day meal but since the farm is in Apple Hill we decided to have apple fritters, apple donuts and apple pies. The cake baking didn’t happen as it didn’t fit in the schedule but it was still very fun. I don’t have any particular favorite meals for Mother’s Day as it is usually picnic day for us. I noticed that I tend to dip strawberries in chocolate and pack it up for the picnic consistently and very year. I usually make cold salads for the picnic. Do you have a favorite meal for Mother’s Day?

            We haven’t seen Trolls 2 but we will definitely watch it someday. The most recent movie that we watched was Tooth Fairy with Dwayne Johnson. My son lost a tooth for the first time so we thought it would be perfect. The kids loved the movie. Dwayne Johnson is one of our family’s favorite actors. The other actors are Adam Sandler and Tyler Perry. Although to be honest, for me the Adam Sandler and Madea movies are more something that I watch because my husband and stepson enjoys them. But I do like the Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore movies even before I met my husband. I don’t know what Dwayne Johnson is but I think that Adam Sandler is an empath. I saw Sandler and Barrymore tell the story of their friendship and it made me think that he is definitely an empath. Sandler was best friends with Chris Farley and during that friendship, Sandler was trying to save Farley from a lot of Farley’s bad habits. When Farley died, Sandler felt like he failed as a friend. Then Drew Barrymore was trying to go back to acting but nobody was giving her a job because of her previous drug addiction and behavior problems. She wrote many people in Hollywood including Adam Sandler to ask for a role. Sandler thought that if he wasn’t able to save Farley maybe he can save Barrymore so he asked her to audition for The Wedding Singers. And they said that it started their life long friendship. I think that the desire to save people is more common with empaths than with normals so I think Sandler is an empath. Also he tend to have the same actors in his movies through the years which I think shows his commitment to people.

            I love your joke about Cinco de Mayo! I remember hearing before that Corona beer was not happy that the name of the virus is Corona. I think one of the funniest C-19 jokes I have seen was when Kenny Rogers died: Kenny Rogers dippin’ out in the middle of the Apocalypse is the most “Know when to fold’em shit” I have ever seen!” I bet that made Kenny Rogers laugh in heaven as well.

            I can’t remember if I said the taco Tuesday deal was $10, I was wrong, it is $20 for ten tacos and two Margaritas on the rocks. I agree with the calories in drinks. I used to love Frappuccinos but now I never drink one because of the calories. Although sometimes I have iced caramel macchiato but it’s not as bad and it is a rare treat for me.

            Restaurants and stores are already opening in our county but they are only accepting people at 50% capacity. We only had 8 cases here and none of them have been confined at the hospital. I think that you are right about Sweden. I don’t really get to follow the news anymore because my kids complain if I watch anything but the shows that they like. I still am unable to do something by myself like watch TV without supervising them because they end up fighting when I stop watching them. They totally love each other but they also fight a lot. My daughter loves to provoke my son and he whines about her all the time. As in all the time, all day. I love being around them all the time but sometimes I wonder how many other parents are about ready to lose it while quarantined with their kids even though their kids are also very sweet.

          36. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            It sounds like you had a great mother’s day! The apple treats sound good! I am now wanting a slice of apple pie. LOL
            I love chocolate covered strawberries! I hope you get your cake soon, and the chocolate strawberries!
            How beautiful to have Irises in your garden!

            We didn’t do much for Mother’s day. Like I told my son, though, with him around it was perfect. I cooked and then ended up eating a bowl of ice cream by myself in celebration after my son went to bed. He didn’t want ice cream.

            I don’t watch the news. I can’t handle listen to the same news item for an hour or more and with their own special twist. I once was told to watch CSPAN as it would be the most objective form of gathering information on certain items. While I agree it will be more objective, it only covers a limited area of news. I like to read the news so I can get a variety. I used to follow one online news source but recently deleted it to stop obsessing with it and with the negativity of some individuals. I now find different ways to read news. I understand the TV situation when kids are involved. He chooses what he wants to watch. I often wonder if shows when we were that age just like these and we didn’t notice. I had to laugh at one episode of a cartoon he was watching because it appeared to socialize the “feeding” fetish I had only recently learned about. It didn’t give a sexualized component to it in the cartoon, but there was forcing another to eat beyond their health for their own personal desire.

            I would agree with you about Adam Sandler being an empath! It’s interesting that since I have been here, when I think someone is an empath I automatically look for the narcissist around them. I wonder if Drew is that for him. I used to like Adam and Chris in SNL. Personally I think the years they and Mike Meyer and Dana Carvey were the only good years of SNL. We haven’t seen the Tooth Fairy. I will have to look that up. Scooby Doo comes out tonight. I wonder if there were any narcissists portrayed on that show.
            Did the tooth fairy visit your son?

            I have friends with multiple kids who say the same thing about the constant fighting. Some of them were only children so they are concerned it means something is wrong. I have siblings and we fought all of the time as children. We now are friends as well as siblings. I can understand how that can be not fun, though, when I witness it. Some of the parents I see try to resolve it and get them to play nicer.
            Other parents I have seen are teaching that it is ok to not be around the other person and to find other things to do. Even though we are in different situations, I understand how you feel and know many loving parents who do too! I just spoke with one with three kids and she is an empath and loves her children, but she was having her moments. We are both thrilled school is almost done. I want to figure out how to have playmates other than parents in his life safely along with Zoom. Everyone I have spoken with think kids under teenage years will have a hard time staying 6 feet apart if they are at the same area. None of us think it is worth the risk if they can’t.

            On the OCD blog I read, I have read a lot from spouses and significant others of individuals diagnosed with OCD. I know they are in a difficult situation. What’s been interesting for me is to try to see who are showing signs of narcissism in their reaction to the situation. I then have to remind myself that I have never been a spouse to an individual diagnosed with OCD so maybe it is a matter of eroded empathy. I wonder if there is a way to tell the difference between narcissism because of personality or narcissism due to eroded empathy and how much time do you give trying to distinguish.

          37. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            That is an excellent question on how to distinguish the difference between erosion of empathy vs narcissism. I remember HG has a logic bulletin something like “Why Am I Behaving Like a Narcissist” and I wonder if an answer to that would be included in there. I have been wondering about that too. I have never been a squeaky clean empath in terms of my behavior. I have been disrespectful to my mom in ways that would shock a lot of people when I was living with her and when outsiders see my behavior they look at me in a judging way and felt bad for her. They were of course not aware of our situation at home and the provocations that caused me to react that way to her in public. But at the same time, I feel that if you knew ahead of time what your romantic partner has and you still signed up for it, you should be able to not be bitter about it even though at times it can be challenging. I also think that another factor that can make a difference is dealing with an OCD spouse that also has NPD versus dealing with an OCD spouse that does not have NPD. It’s like when I was taking care of my non NPD dad versus my NPD mom, the stress was incredibly different. I was exhausted from having to wake up every four hours or so to give my dad morphine but I was happily taking care of him and I felt appreciated. He also had some control issues like wanting the house temperature in a specific number and keeping the house in a very orderly way as if we were living in a museum, but he never berated me. So my empathy totally did not erode while taking care of my dad. So if someone has OCD but was kind and doesn’t have a cluster B personality, I do not understand how the other spouse’s empathy would erode to the point of almost looking like a narcissist. I remember a story in my home country that a wife became paralyzed from neck down after a doctor’s mistake while she was giving birth. The husband took care of her and was a total miracle worker. But when he was asked he said that he loves her but it is now more like platonic love. He also raised their kids while taking care of her and one woman tried to have an affair with him but he didn’t do it even though he admits that he is not romantically in love with his wife anymore but he said that he loves her very much but in a different way. So his empathy did not get eroded to the point of being abusive to his wife but the form of love he had changed. I thought that it was interesting when I saw his interview.
            And then I also look at people who behave very narcissistically when their self esteem has taken a blow. I notice this with myself. I become more of a braggart and I tend to talk about a lot of positive things about me after I endured a lot of criticism from someone or some people. It’s like a defense mechanism to bring back the depleted amount of self confidence. But the difference is I don’t put someone down in order to bring myself up. I can be a braggart about myself but I have no need to compare myself to anyone to make myself feel better. Narcissists have habits that are much more stronger in them such as triangulation, gaslighting, extreme entitlement and not being accountable. I think that when those things are very strong with someone then I have really strong indications that it is permanent lack of empathy and not just a temporary erosion.

            I will write you about the other topics tomorrow. Night night!!

          38. Getting There says:

            I’m sorry, Mommypino, I just realized that I didn’t answer a question you asked.
            The state I live is opening. I don’t plan on taking advantage of most of it in order to stay safe. In just the short term of opening, too many people have shown to not follow social distancing and not many wear masks. Someone told me something that seems to fit with the actions of those ignoring all advice while out, “Just because everything is opening doesn’t mean the virus doesn’t exist. It means that there is room at the ICU.” With the illness that some children are now suffering from, I prefer to be cautious in our choices. Interestingly states are finding that there were cases of Corona in January. I wonder when they do the antibody tests if people will find cases in December. Will you and your husband have an opportunity to go on a date out now that restaurants are open?

            I liked your Kenny Rogers joke. I like his music and was sad to hear he died. I had to listen to a lot of his songs afterwards.

          39. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            My initial reaction to reading about that couple was feeling bad for the situation and the loss of romantic love. Then I thought about it and realized that it was more romantic than Disney fairytales. He lived faithful to his vows and not ideals. It makes me think of agape love.

            I can understand and have experienced how erosion of empathy can look to another when you described how you were with your mom. There were a few times where people couldn’t understand why I sounded angry at my ex-husband when they saw him being kind to me. I think the feeling of safety and love can help individuals gladly do what hard work needs to be done. Without those feelings, the chore can seem to have the additional weight of the negative.

            Your comment helped me remember when I saw a friend, who is an empath, get upset and say mean things to her husband during his OCD moments. He isn’t severe but he has moments. While I knew her emotional empathy was eroded due to a lot of things going on in her life, I felt I needed to protect him. He handled it well but he seems to be a possible normal and understood that sometimes people speak from other emotions. Do you have to get to know someone really well to know that is the case?

          40. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I had the same initial reaction about the couple. I was actually bawling at that time because their story was dramatized in a TV show and then they were interviewed afterwards. I was first disappointed and shocked when he said that his love for her is not romantic anymore. I was very young at that time and was idealistic about romance. But then I had to think about what he was saying and how he said it and everything that he has done and was continuing to do for her and I thought that I think I finally understand what he was saying. Although you’re right, it is agape and not platonic. I forgot about agape, thank you for correcting me. It is the highest form of love so his love did not erode but it changed into a higher and selfless form.

            That is interesting that your Empath friend had that erosion of empathy. I have never met anyone with OCD so I don’t have a good idea on how difficult it can be for anyone. Now I understand that it can be more challenging than what I was imagining.

            For me I am not able to figure it out unless I have had regular interactions with the person for at least several months. I don’t think that I can differentiate it with just comments in an online forum because for me I have said things in this blog that I would never say in real life and also sometimes I am guilty of just saying stuff that was king of knee jerk as I get carried away with typing or venting but it was not really my normal state of mind. Like I have been accused here of being a narcissist but in person even the narcissists in my life did not even accuse me of narcissism even though I was painted black. The worst thing my sister accused me of was being selfish and she has even told me many times that I am a good person but she just cannot love me because I am a reminder of our dad’s betrayal of her mom. My stepdaughters couldn’t come up with an answer when my husband asked them what is it about me that they don’t like except for my age being too embarrassing for them and that I’m probably a gold digger. And yet to some people online, because of how my posts or comments or online behaviors appear to them, they have a perception that I am a narcissist. I never told my husband what happened here but I asked him if he thinks that I’m a narcissist and he said I’m the farthest thing to a narcissist although I have my own eccentricities because of how my mom raised me but he said that I’m a really good person. So I don’t know how to differentiate a temporary erosion of empathy vs a permanent lack of empathy online.

            By the way, I don’t know if you saw it but I just want to let you know that I also replied to the rest of the other topics but it is at the top of the comments. I could not reply right under your comment for some reason so I had to write a new comment. I am just able to reply under your comment now because I went to the WordPress website. 💕🦋

    2. MommyPino says:

      Hello Getting There 🧡

      Regarding Easter, I am not fully ready yet for tomorrow but I know that it will be fine. The kids don’t notice those things and they still end up having all kinds of fun. I was able to think about Easter and my son’s birthday so I was able to go to the Dollar Store and grab a bunch of candies. toys and party supplies (and school supplies too). I didn’t get them anything nice because I wanted to get as much food and home supplies as I can with the budget that I have. I was conscientious when I shopped for the potential long shelter in place though, I grabbed a lot of stuff but in varieties and not bulk of the same thing. So now my husband says he has been eating stuff that he has never eaten before lol because I got stuff that we normally don’t buy. And also when the quantity of the item was limited I made sure that I would leave one or two left in the shelf. So tomorrow we will also have a simple dinner. Just what we have at home. Although I was able to grab hot chocolate mix so we will have our yearly hot cocoa in our tea set. The yard is finally ready. We will just scatter the eggs tomorrow.

      I’m happy to hear that your friend is better. It was really nice of you to stay connected with her during that scary time. Even if she is not a high risk it is still scary to get it and it is very helpful to have someone to talk to.

      By the way, your communication is perfect. I’m the one who needs to read more slowly and carefully.

      My husband jokes about me in the opposite way. He tells me often that if there is an apocalypse he knows that he will be ok because he’s married to me. He jokes that as long as I have salt and pepper I will always figure out something to eat. It’s a joke in reference to a lot of people eating exotic meats in my home country. He knows that I don’t eat unusual foods like balut (aborted chick) or chicken feet or pork blood stew but he still thinks he’s funny. I just think he’s goofy sometimes and I always feel safe with him so I rarely get offended by his jokes. I just tell him to not tell those jokes to other people. He still does sometimes but he’s pretty good at picking the recipient of the joke to not be the type who would get offended by it.

      That’s a shame that he’s a Republican. I hope that they drop him next election if he really said that. Even Trump wouldn’t say that so there’s no excuse.

      My husband’s idea will not work because many elderly people live with their younger relatives (and this is super common with immigrants from my home country) so these people can infect the elderly that live with them. Also what you said is an excellent point about the hidden underlying health conditions. I remember that athlete that had cancer. I think he had leukemia. It was very tragic and sad. I have been reading so many sad stories about victims of Coronavirus. It’s a really bad time right now because if this pandemic.

      I apologize but I have to finish my response tomorrow as my melatonin is already kicking in. Have a wonderful and happy and blessed Easter to you and your sweet boy❣️🐣. Love you and take care!! 🧡

      1. Getting There says:

        Hello, Mommypino!

        I need to take lessons from you! That’s a great skill you have to be able to plan and prepare and still be compassionate to others! I have no doubt your children are enjoying every thing you bought and all you are doing to keep everything going even through the changes and anxiety. The hot chocolate tradition is great!

        You are a kinder person than I. I enjoy jokes at my expense, but if the person makes the joke in front of others after I have asked them not to, then I will either give the eye or say something sarcastic in return.

        You are correct about the elderly living with the younger ones being at risk! I have friends who take care of their grandchildren still, even though they don’t live in the same house. I like how families are there for each other, and at the same time it is sad that a village mentality can be negative in situations like now. I read a lot of the news about the people who became sick; the people who died; and the families in grief. It became what some would call an obsession. I have since limited my connection with the news significantly. I did see that scientists in the UK think that they will have a vaccine by September. I can only pray that that is true! It’s interesting how much this shows me how much in operate by “hope.” I know HG’s warnings of “hope, ” but I am starting to believe that it can also be a defense mechanism that enables us to keep going no matter what. Then I notice that I am cynical in ways that I should be hopeful. It doesn’t make sense. In one way I noticed it recently is a friend of mine was married to a narcissist. They are divorced. She is now in a relationship with a guy who goes out of his way to show her how much he cares. I keep wondering what angle this guy is playing from as I assume the potential he is a narcissist. I don’t tell her that I am looking for red flags for her. I should write a thank you note to all narcissists in my life who have helped shape my view of relationships and yet I think I am ready for a new one after this pandemic. LOL

        1. MommyPino says:

          Hello Getting There,

          You are absolutely ready for a new relationship after this pandemic. And it is wonderful that you are looking for red flags and we have all kinds of tips from HG, especially his book Red Flags is very informative. No person is perfect, like you said Empaths make mistakes too. But it is impossible to be in a relationship with a narcissist who is only in it for himself and not to be in a team with you. I was heavily damaged when my husband fell in love with me and he learned about those things as our relationship got older. He always pointed them out to me and he never accepted bad behavior from me but he never judged me for them either. He just simply pointed them out to me and sometimes I would tell him why I behave like that and he would explain to me why my perspective is wrong or faulty etc. And sometimes it took me a while to shake off bad habits but I am constantly improving. He isn’t perfect either and I also tell him when something he did bothers me. The problem though is I have struggled with a way to tell him in a healthy manner without erupting right away or saying something that pins him down right away. But none of us give silent treatments when something needs to be addressed and even though he gets super defensive when I bring up something that I don’t like (also because the manner that I bring it up puts him on a defense), he still stops doing it. A narcissist usually do not do permanent changes. So Normals and Empaths are not perfect but relationships with them are workable whereas relationships with Narcissists are not. And both my husband and I have red flags as we both have narcissistic traits but the pervasiveness, degree and consistency of those are nothing like those of narcissists.

          I am the same, I would be quiet if someone is picking on me about something that I don’t like in front of other people. Then when it’s not going to make a scene anymore, I privately tell the person (my husband) that he offended me. Most of the time I pretend that I’m ok with it in front of other people as I am embarrassed to look like my husband and I have a conflict. So when I tell him in private he gets upset that I was acting like it was ok and now I am upset about it. But we always end up ironing things out and then he never does it again. I was more referring to him joking to other people that I think might offend those people and he still does it and those people don’t get offended at all. Although sometimes they do get offended too. I have seen his younger daughter, I think a LMR repeat his jokes to other people and her delivery always fall flat and not funny because she couldn’t hide her prejudice or judgment towards the person that she is picking on and it ends up sounding cruel instead of funny. Whereas her dad have delivered the same jokes many times with the same exact words and it makes the person he is picking on laugh because of his expression while saying it like it’s full of acceptance and humor of the person’s characteristics without judgment.

          I totally agree with what you said about hope. And I can say the same thing about prayers. When I see so many sad news sometimes it can make me feel down but we cannot let everything affect us emotionally. It is natural to feel sad from all of the bad things that we see but we have to make the choice to surrender those emotional burdens to God and let him take care of them and trust that he will do what is best. I cannot let fear overcome me so I have to trust God and stop worrying about it. When I had to take a break because I was worried about the Corona virus situation and I was reading about all of the deaths I was feeling overwhelmed and helpless so I had to isolate for a little bit and pray and also do something that would make me feel less helpless like get ready for the shelter in place. It is probably a narcy response to not want to be helpless but it does help me get a distraction. And also hoping that it will be ok in the end like you perfectly said, “enables us to keep going no matter what.” 🧡

      2. Getting There says:

        I’m sorry, Mommypino, I forgot something in my last message!

        I have been thinking about the donation of plasma from survivors of Coronavirus. If I had the antibodies, I wouldn’t think twice with donating although the idea of needles scare me. I wonder if narcissists would donate if they could. For those with facades, it would seem to help with the facade and the provision of positive fuel. I just wonder if the idea that a part of the narcissist being in multiple people and that it is within the narcissist to heal another would be further incentive. Do you think that would be considered a further investment to a legacy? I hope so and then many would donate.

        1. MommyPino says:

          Hello Getting There,

          The plasma donation is a very interesting question. I think that it depends on what is going on with the narcissist and also depends on what their schools and cadres are and also if they have comorbidities. My mom for example, even though she was an overwhelming angel to her relatives in terms of giving them gifts and sending my cousins to school, she would never donate blood because she had paranoia and she was afraid that they would kill her at the hospital or something terribly wrong will happen. I can see my MMR older stepdaughter do it so she can have something unique to tell her friends and acquaintances and feel self righteous about it. My sister who was also a MMR had a slightly different personality and she didn’t even bother to vote, let alone have needles prick her for charity. My younger SD who I think is a LMR wouldn’t bother at all. My UMR BiL would be totally on board with it if he was healthy and he would even be able to bring with him other friends who will donate too.
          I personally don’t think that all narcissists care about a legacy. Some of them would just want to be able to brag about something and some wouldn’t even bother because of several possible reasons. But I am excited about that technology and I’m glad that we have another way to fight the virus.

  7. Getting There says:

    Mommypino, I have to tell you that you have a great way of expressing things!
    In my previous message to you I actually wrote and deleted a paragraph on the fact that narcissists do good. You stated it in a way that really hit the heart!

    Just recently I had a situation and it was my ex- husband who “came to the rescue.” HG has done, and is doing, all of this. Yes it is for his legacy but the good that is coming of it will live for a long time. The cost of your mom’s good was against you at times, and I am sorry that happened to you!
    It’s interesting that what many narcissists do is subconscious; they don’t choose. HG worked out that aspect. Who is to say that future research doesn’t say that empaths are driven by a subconscious blah blah blah. I hope that wouldn’t take away from the good we do either.

    1. MommyPino says:

      Hello Getting There,

      I totally agree with you on narcissists also doing good. And I totally agree regarding HG and his legacy. He will change a lot of people’s lives even after we’re all gone. He has already provided so much groundbreaking knowledge in such a short amount of time. It will also change how society looks at narcissism and human behaviors. And HG has also pinpointed how a lot of the empath’s self destructive behaviors are caused by empathic traits that are being high jacked by narcissistic traits. I have always thought about that in an intuitive way just like most of us but HG is so brilliant to dissect it in such a thorough way.

      Thank you for your kind compliments. I am really grateful to all of your kind and encouraging words towards me. I hope that you will feel better ASAP and get enough rest. If you need to talk about what happened on Friday I am always here. And if you don’t want to talk about it that is perfectly fine too. Do what feels best for you and make sure you have enough rest and self care. I hope that your weekend is enjoyable and peaceful to you. ❤️❤️❤️

      1. Getting There says:

        You are so sweet, Mommypino!! Thank you!

        Unfortunately this is something I can’t discuss but thank you for being willing to listen! I believe it will all turn out ok; I am putting my trust in God. You are right that sleep helps. I had multiple conversations today about the importance of sleep and none of them sparked by me saying I was tired. LOL All conversations can be wrapped up into the summary that the mind and body need sleep.

        This weekend I was supposed to meet up with that one guy who acts like a victim. He canceled it with some lousy excuse, and I was so excited! I would have originally felt bad before about not being there for someone who is going through a hard time and just needs to talk, but right now I don’t feel bad. I’m hoping he realizes that I am not worth the energy even as a NISS. I hope you had a peaceful and enjoyable weekend!

        I’m glad you found my comment! I didn’t mean to put this up here but think now think it was a fortunate mistake as I was spending a bit of time looking for the “reply” button.

        1. MommyPino says:

          Hello Getting There, I totally understand that you cannot talk about it here. And I’m glad that you are feeling better and rested. Sleep definitely is super important for our mental health. I know for me personally that when I feel like it’s the end of the world regarding something then after I had a good sleep I wake up wondering what I was thinking and why I was overwhelmed.

          By the way, have you heard of the racist tweet that Claire McCaskill sent about Ben Carson? I think that it is sad that she is not even aware of how racist her remark was. Ben Carson is an amazingly talented and brilliant person and very handsome as well and I love that he did not played the victim with his race and he strove to be amazingly great at his profession so that he could help kids who were suffering and not so that he could be above others. I love his statement about race when he said that whenever he operated on a black person and a white person’s brains they both look the same under that skin (or something like that because I can’t remember the exact quote). I think that when politicians hate someone because that person belongs to a group of people that they believe should automatically align with them, that is lack of empathy and objectification.

        2. MommyPino says:

          Hi Getting There,

          I just remembered to ask you something but you don’t have to reply right away. I am just wondering how you are doing with your struggle with closure regarding the friend who crossed your boundaries and you disengaged from without explanation. Do you still feel the same or has your struggle been decreasing in time?

          I have done something similar with a group of friends that I had from my last job. Our former boss is an empath and the rest of the group is one empath, two narcissists and one normal. We all eventually left the job and only our former boss remained but we have met on our birthdays every year. One of the narcissists’ birthday was also in January and because of her maneuvers there have been times when my birthday was not celebrated and only hers was. After finding Narcsite and realizing the reason why she has been sabotaging or downplaying my birthdays for years is because my birthday is too close to hers. So I said to the Empath former boss that I will not join the birthday celebrations anymore. I didn’t say goodbye to the rest of them and I remained friends with my former boss. But the narcissist ex friend still kept liking all of my pictures and posts on FB and leaves incredibly flattering comments. I didn’t have the courage to unfriend or block her but I have tried my best to stay disciplined to not like her pictures or posts even if it’s her kids. Her youngest also has a birth defect so even if some of her posts pull my heartstrings I tried my best to not like any of her posts. It was extremely hard for me and it felt like there is also no closure with us because I didn’t say goodbye to her and it was just our former boss who relayed to them that I left the birthday group and why. It eventually became easier to ignore her on social media and recently I noticed that she has stopped liking my posts as well. She also didn’t greet me happy birthday on FB anymore. And weirdly, that made me so happy that she finally disengaged from me. I was so happy and relieved especially when she didn’t greet me on my birthday and also because there is no expectation for me to greet her as well on hers since her birthday is after mine. I think the Emotional Thinking of needing closure eventually dissipates if we just stick to what we have decided no matter what.

          There was another thing recently but slightly different. One lady from church messaged me selling me something. She was doing the annoying sales tactics and I just asked her what her product is. We were not interested so I asked my husband what should I tell her and he said to just tell her that I’m not interested. It felt so cut and dried to me so I added an extra explanation to make it look like I wasn’t just dismissing her and as part of the explanation I have said that we don’t use products like that. She seemed to have been offended and asked me to clarify what I meant by ‘products like that.’ I said, “expensive health products.” And she went on with really long messages and I told my husband what happened and he asked me why did I have to explain instead of just saying to her that I’m not interested? I said that because she goes to church with us and I didn’t want to make her feel ignored or offended. He told me that she didn’t have the right to feel ignored or offended if I am not interested because she was the one who initiated the conversation with me. And he said it in such a simple and unemotional way and I was thinking yeah, it really shouldn’t be that complicated lol. Anyway, he just told me to write to her that regarding our health we just try to eat right and follow the word of wisdom which is apparently something that would shut a Mormon up and it worked. She finally acquiesced and said that the word of wisdom is indeed the best wisdom along with her ending sales spiel. 😊

          1. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            Thank you!
            I had to laugh yesterday as I am very tired and trying not to fall asleep while sitting talking with friends. I started noticing that I was yelling and couldn’t figure out why I was yelling what I was sharing. I do like sleep. It really does change perspective and even attitude, at least with me.

            I hadn’t seen that news until reading your comment. What a sick twist to a Sesame Street line. Ben Carson is an amazing man with such a good heart! I am glad people recognize that calling a person a “thing” is wrong!! I am sure he is used to racism unfortunately. It’s sick that people cannot respect each other as equals. I remember a time where I learned a lesson in how to handle such a situation. My mom was raised a non- Christian faith but she converted to Christianity before she met my dad. While we were raised Christian, I have always been proud of my other culture. One day we were with two “good Christians” who worked with my mom. One decided to share a story that ended up being her perpetuating false negative beliefs of the people of that other faith and culture. I was angry and would have made some clear statements of what a fool I thought she was, but my mom calmly shared how that belief is wrong and shared tenants of the faith that matched what my mom was saying. I realized then that it doesn’t take a sledgehammer to make a difference, and that sometimes people hear so much prejudices that they learn that reacting will get nowhere. It came into play years later when I went to a doctor and shared that I was a descendant of that culture because it can matter for health reasons. He called it a “cult.” I chose to say nothing and never went back. I felt him losing money would be good enough of a response. Well, that and I shared with lots of people his comment hoping he would lose more business. I think Ben Carson is like my mom in that he doesn’t react but will calmly respond if he feels it needs to be done.

            I hope to never understand someone thinking another below them whether it be due to race, gender, religion, class, etc.

            I hope all are staying healthy there! I know it has been a bad time for flu, sinuses, and strep here.

          2. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            That was absolutely horrible that your doctor did that. I’m glad that you fired him and told other people about how ignorant he is. And also that he didn’t get that much fuel from you.

            “Good Christians” who adamantly believe that their way is the only way is not my cup of tea and my husband is the same way. He doesn’t get involved in arguments but when it comes to this, his provocative and argumentative narcissistic traits come to the fore. When we go to church sometimes some Mormons speak of how they need to save as many people as they can by bringing them to the church. My husband would challenge that and say that if God is our father, would he really send away his children just because they belong to a different church? Would you do that to your own kids?

            We had an old Mormon couple neighbor before whom I didn’t really like. I don’t know if they are narcissists or not but they have a lot of MR traits. They were working on trying to bring my husband back to church. He stopped attending the church after his second wife died. He said that his second wife converted to be a Mormon but the people there were so cliquish that she felt lonely most of the time which contributed to her unhappiness. She divorced him because of many factors and he kept on visiting her at her apartment hoping that they will get back together. One of their problems was her addiction to pain killers and which caused a lot of their disagreements because when he found out that she was secretly getting pain killers online in a PO Box and she had several prescriptions from different doctors he urged her to go to rehab and she didn’t want to. She also didn’t like his daughters and the day that she left their house was when she cooked this really nice dinner for them as they were coming home from a school sports event and she called them while they were driving home and when she asked my husband to pass the phone to the kids, the older stepdaughter was very cold to her and she overheard the youngest stepdaughter say to not pass the phone to her because she’s not in the mood to talk to her. So when they got home they could smell the delicious food but the food was in the trash and she’s gone with all of her clothes. Anyway, one time he visited her he found her having a seizure with foam coming out of her mouth and he called 911. She overdosed from the pain killers. They took her to the hospital but since they were not married anymore he couldn’t watch her and they called her mom. They moved her to a farther hospital and then my husband found out that they were going to remove her life support. He drove with his kids as fast as he could to say goodbye but they already took the life support when they got there. Back to the Mormon church, the president of the local chapter or whatever it is called phoned him and said that it is part of his duty to give him his condolences and that infuriated my husband. He told the guy to not call if it’s just because of his duty. So he stopped going to church since then. Anyway, this neighbors were really aggressively being nice to us and visiting a lot with us and inviting us to go back to the church. The husband is so opinionated on how the Mormon church is the only true church etc. and both of them are very active in the church. Well one day my husband was coming out of the post office and was shocked at what he saw. Our holier than though neighbor who is probably 6’4” and extremely overweight was yelling at an old lady because she parked too close to his car and blocked him I think. And my husband was just looking and still in disbelief and then the neighbor saw my husband and instantly the neighbor’s face changed and calmed down and stopped yelling at the little old woman and spoke to her as if he has always been calm with her and then he said hi to my husband. And my husband was just thinking wow!

            I agree with you on Ben Carson. I am not aware of him responding to the racist tweet at all. If he saw it he probably just smiled and shook his head about how stupid people can be and then moved on to things that has value. I have heard that he is doing a really good job in his cabinet position but he seems to be doing it quietly without sensationalizing his accomplishments. I hope that other people will promote his achievements for him so more people can notice him.

          3. Getting There says:

            I’m sorry your coworker ruined the birthday lunch for you! That’s great that you put the boundary up for yourself to not continue with the behavior! I’m sure your previous boss understands! Were you and your previous boss able to go out and celebrate together? Celebration of birthday and freedom with your new boundaries in what you will accept and not!

            Thank you so much for checking! It’s funny as I am finding myself struggling today. I haven’t contacted her but have responded to her few contacts. We have many connections that keep from the door being bolted. Today I questioned whether I am being overly judgmental and unreasonable. I have talked to others and my therapist about it and none feel that I should continue this behavior in my life. It’s not about her specifically, but I worry that I am a hypocrite.

            If only we could be like your husband in some ways! I like the final response you gave and her reaction! It really can be as easy as saying “no thank you,” but I understand how hard it is. For me I either agree to buy or spend so much time trying to figure out how to say a simple “no thank you” that I end up doing it in such a way that makes me want to avoid contact with that person. I have a friend who is like your husband and cannot understand the difficulty of just saying “I’m not interested” since it is the business of being in business with rejection even coming from family and friends.

            I received a hoover recently and don’t know from which narcissist. What I like about sharing this stuff with friends is that they make jokes about the situation and it becomes something to laugh about. I find laughter to be the best medicine to handle different types of situations.

            I hope you and your family are having a great weekend!

          4. MommyPino says:

            Hi Getting There,

            I didn’t understand what this means:

            “I have talked to others and my therapist about it and none feel that I should continue this behavior in my life.”

            I think that all of what your feeling is understandable and natural for you because you are an empath. I went through the same thing when I disengaged from that friend that I told you about. I didn’t do cold turkey with her. It was hard because we have a lot of mutual friends and connections. We even live in the same area and shop at the same stores. But I made the decision and stuck with it as much as I possibly could which meant that I only interacted with her when I really have to and didn’t initiate contact with her. When she commented on my posts I wanted to ignore her but didn’t want our mutual friends or acquaintances to think that I am rude so I don’t reply but I at least like her. I couldn’t do what HG would have wanted. My husband could easily do it, also because my husband doesn’t have social media so he’s not that accessible. I think that is just the nature of us empaths and that is why HG said that we are targeted because it’s easier to ensnare us and the ensnarement with us is easier to maintain or keep.

            It was not one birthday lunch that she undermined, it was years of my shared birthday dinners with her. One year my birthday was completely skipped because she asked to have her separate birthday on her 40th and since it was hard to get us all together and her birthday comes about a week after mine we ended up skipping my birthday while I continued to go to their birthdays. It was a lot of years of making me feel unimportant and my empath former boss didn’t even notice it. She also did a lot of smearing against me to the other girls behind my back and I just learn about it when my former boss would ask me why I am like that or that I misunderstood our narc friend or whatever maybe the case. It was a lot of politics in the friendship and that is not the kind of friendship that I want in my life. I think a big reason why I stayed engaging for that long is because I’m in a foreign country and I didn’t know a lot of people and also my self confidence was shaky because of the narc entanglements I had here.

          5. Getting There says:

            Mommypino,

            I know I am making excuses for my contact with that “friend.” People don’t need me to be in contact with her to maintain their contact but I don’t know. It just is hard to be the reason others need to walk on eggshells or not have the ability to enjoy friendships at one time.

            On another note, have you heard the recordings of Amber Heard and Johnny Depp? I thought he was an abuser but not I am not sure what to think. She sounds like a sociopath who abuses, but is this a case of fighting back or a case of collision?

          6. MommyPino says:

            Hi Getting There,

            It is very awkward to disengage with a friend when you have a lot of common friends. I felt the same way with my empath former boss. I felt that it had put her on the spot. But they have to respect the boundary that you are setting and they will really understand that if they really care about you. You cannot force your heart to be in a place where it doesn’t want to be.

            I have not heard of the recordings. I saw on IG that HG has an article about her which I want to read. I knew that she is a narcissist in fact I had a discussion with NunyaBiz and I think PSE before about Amber and I have said that just looking at her expressions alone she is definitely a narcissist. My you best stepdaughter has the exact same expressions and affect as Amber so I am so used to that kind of narcissists. I am so familiar with the expressions on her face that just seeing that face or affect on someone almost instantly raises a red flag.

          7. Violetta says:

            MommyPino:

            Have you read Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People? It’s almost a century old now, but many sales and management people still read it like the Bible. A lot of the manipulative tactics my Mid-rAngel teachers or co-workers used on me (unsuccessfully) are straight out of his playbook.

            It never seems to occur to his True Believers that there are different cultures in different regions and socioeconomic groups, let alone in other countries, and many of the things he recommends to show interest will just strike people as over-familiar and intrusive.

            I barely knew someone who worked in sales who asked lots of questions about my family (“Do you have any brothers or sisters? Where do your parents live?”) and praised my possessions (meagre, since I was in grad school) effusively. She was affronted when I wouldn’t do the same.

            There was a Young Sheldon episode in which the uber-nerd reads the book in an effort to comply with the adults pushing him to improve his social skills. At one point, he addresses a character as “Ms. So-and-so” almost every three words, because of Carnegie’s claim that people like to hear the sound of their own names. Parody aside, it was pretty close to what one teacher did. I didn’t know then why she was doing it, but I felt I was being jabbed in the ribs with my own name.

            It’s worth reading, just so you’ll know when someone’s trying a Carnegie maneuvre on you. A major one is asking you an unrelated question to which the probable answer is “yes.” They think it is a magic formula to make you receptive to agreeing to other things.

          8. MommyPino says:

            Hi Violetta,

            Thank you for sharing that. Everything you said makes so much sense. I have not read the whole book but when I was in college we had a seminar in school where they taught us portions of that book and also another book which I can’t remember. It has really helped me change my perspective on how I can change my interactions with people. Before going to college I had a very cynical outlook on people because of my background, I was very jaded. Then all of a sudden I went to this Catholic school where everyone is so respectful and nice or at least civil to each other. I walk to the hallway and my classmates from different classes and my professors and the nuns in school say hi to me with a smile and my hi back to them felt forced and it was hard to smile. In that seminar there was a tip from one of the books, maybe it was that book you’re saying where when you see a person practice on finding something nice or something that you like about them. The speaker at the seminar said that what is inside our head will instantly change the energy that we put out to people. So when I see something that I like about a person even if it’s just a stranger, it makes me easier to naturally smile back and say hi back and also it makes me feel more receptive and less guarded. It seems like a really powerful book but I totally agree with you that people need to apply it with more discernment because situations and cultures are different. Here in our little retirement town people politely smile at you at the grocery store when your eye meets their eyes. When you go to Sacramento or Stockton and you smile at another shopper at the grocery store you would see in their face wondering what is wrong with you lol.

          9. Violetta says:

            MommyPino:

            Southerners think New Yorkers are unfriendly. New Yorkers wonder why Southerners are always smiling at everybody.

            The truth is, if you stop at a NYC intersection to blow your nose, three New Yorkers will instantly rush up and ask, “Where yuh tryin’a go?” Same if you look at a subway map. Their faces fall if you say, as I have, “Oh, I used to live here, just trying to figure out the best connection.” They LIVE to give directions to strangers.

            As for Southerners, Florence King has written about people getting wrong numbers, realizing they hit an area code one digit off from the one they were trying to call, and saying things like “You’re in Charleston? Oh, do you know the Prestons or the Buchanans?” A fifteen-minute conversation will ensue, covering prominent families and 2nd cousins in both cities, and at the end of it, both parties will say (simultaneously), “You come visit real soon now, you heah?”

          10. MommyPino says:

            Lol Violetta that is fascinating. People from different cultures have different ways of showing that they care. I’m not familiar with the culture in the East Coast and what you have shared are very interesting. I’m only slightly familiar with Maryland and Connecticut because my brother lived in Maryland and now lives in Connecticut and he has a lot of stories about the people there. He used to be a civilian professor at the Naval Academy in Annapolis and he hated the culture there so much. He is a peace loving liberal and he hated the hawkish culture there. My sister in law also never puts makeup on and it was very hard for her to fit in with the military wife culture where they were all very dolled up like Stepford wives. Then he finally decided to teach at the Coast Guard Academy in Connecticut and he is now so amazingly at peace and happy. He said the the mission of the Coast Guards where they save lives really makes a big difference in their culture and they both fit in so mu better there. I’m slightly regretting passing up his invitations to Maryland before and not seeing how military wives look like in real life lol.

          11. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            I was in the middle of responding to you and it disappeared. I don’t know if it will post. If it does, this may seem like deja vu.

            I am so sorry to hear about your husband’s second wife! How heartbreaking for all! The pain she must have felt that she was trying to deal with; the pain he felt; and the pain of her parents if they are still alive. I can’t imagine losing a child (although adult child) and in addition having to make the choice to remove that adult child from life support. The comment your husband received in response was wrong. From what people have shared with me the kind of hypocrisy shown to your husband and the actions of your neighbors is why some choose to not go to church of any kind. I understand everyone is a sinner and everyone will have moments of not kind behavior, but the ability to switch it on and off like a light switch is just wrong! The belief of some that if you are not part of a specific Christian church or you will go to hell gets my blood boiling, and I agree with your comments completely. I remember when I was a teenager there were kids saying “I’m so sad because I am going to heaven and my dad is going to hell.” It made me sick and still makes me sick as an adult when I hear similar. I’m more willing to speak up to some people now and challenge them on this. I personally believe that there will be all religions as well as atheists and agnostics and such in heaven.

            I just find Ben Carson a class act also! I really wish more would showcase all the good he does to help inspire others. We need more empaths to be highlighted. I think it will also help younger generation to know that empaths can succeed.

            Too bad a good telling off wouldn’t have impact on your narcissist friend. The way you handled it sounds great due to the different aspects of the relationship and others, and she got the message for now. You must have a lot of patience to have put up with that as long as you did. I’m glad your empath previous boss now understands and is supporting you in your boundaries.

            I’m sorry that line didn’t make sense! I was trying to say that I have spoken to my therapist and other friends about the situation with this friend. They all believe that I should not accept her behavior in my life and that I should put boundaries up to keep her out as she won’t change her behaviors. It’s easier said than done as you said only because of the other connections. I haven’t shared with all who share connections as I don’t want to cause issues where there doesn’t need.

            I read HG’s analysis of the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. It was very good and helpful! I feel bad for believing her. I even thought his exes were lieutenants trying to smear her. I can’t imagine what would have happened to him if he didn’t have these recordings. That’s interesting that your step daughter had the same as Amber! I wonder if we could start picking out narcissists by that. LOL

            Have you seen the show “Prodigal Son?” Michael Sheen plays a diagnosed psychopath narcissist serial killer. I don’t think I have seen him in anything else he is in but find his acting ability in this role great! Sadly for my “recovery” I find his character to be entertaining. I don’t know if his character is a Greater. I like the whole show, not just him, but I do find myself liking when he shows up on screen looking forward to his words and expressions.

            Do you celebrate Valentine’s Day with your children?
            My son enjoys it so I will get him something. I know I will be kicked out of the empath school for this but I have not been a Valentine’s Day fan and used to act like Scrooge of Valentine’s Day. I try to watch what I say around my son to not deter him in his liking, but I will admit I have failed.

          12. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There, I don’t think that you would be kicked out of the Empath school for being a Valentines Scrooge. I have seen several posts from Empaths here who also don’t care for Valentines. I am a total opposite. I think it’s because I just want to find a reason to celebrate some days and make them extra special. We didn’t celebrate occasions that much when I was living with my mom and now that I’m in charge of my life I just love celebrating occasions. Valentines is a designated day to celebrate your loved ones so I love making it special as well (within our budget of course). My husband is similar to you and it frustrated me for years. My expectations frustrated him as well. He kept on telling me that it is just a Hallmark holiday to sell cards. He said that what is important is our anniversary because that date is just ours. It frustrated me because I didn’t really care that it is just a fake holiday; I just want to celebrate. Now we meet in the middle where we celebrate but not too much. I cooked a special dinner and he got candies, flowers and rented a movie. He got me a sweet card and I made him a card with my Cricut saying you knock me off my socks and got him a bunch of socks. He thought it was cute. With my kids though I’m able to go all out. I got them cute V Day outfits and I made them cute mailboxes. My son’s a train fanatic so his shirt says “I choo choo choose you!” I also helped him make a gift for his teacher which he really enjoyed.

            I haven’t seen that show but I have seen Michael Sheen twice now and his performances were both great. I first saw him in the movie Far From the Madding Crowd and Caroline is fine and I agreed that his character there is a Victim Middle Mid Ranger. The second movie is when my family watched Dolittle and he played Dr. Müdfly. He seems really great at playing Mid Rangers. He has a show that I have always been curious of watching but I couldn’t because I have little kids and I’m not sure what my husband would think if he finds out that I watch it, it’s Masters of Sex. I don’t know if it’s a good show but it just seems intriguing and I bet that he is a narcissist there as well.

            I love HG’s analysis on Amber as well. I wasn’t aware of a lot of it. I just had bad vibes from her affect and facial expressions because it’s so similar to my youngest stepdaughter. I am not sure if my youngest stepdaughter is a Lesser or a Lower MR. She was diagnosed as bipolar but I think that they misdiagnosed her. Since she was 16 she was a compulsive liar and just couldn’t stop herself from lying. I have not seen her have empathy towards her own friends and she even seems happy when they fail at something because it seems to validate her for some reason. She used to attack me in the guise of being protective of her dad and brother who is special needs even when I have not done anything bad to them. She was trying to make me feel accountable to her with the way I treat her dad and brother but I don’t think that it is genuine care because she has hurt both of them so much in the process. Also she doesn’t even spend time with her brother or help him with anything. I don’t think that she has a conscience either. But she says she is a dog lover although her dog doesn’t seem to like her and has tried to escape from her whenever the dog had a chance. We briefly took care of her dog when she had to look for a new place and she was always shocked when her dad told her that the dog hasn’t tried to escape at all. Her exes avoid her and she brags about how scared they seem to look whenever they see her. I think that narcissists have different affects. My older stepdaughter has a similar affect as Meghan Markle. She has that well-practiced sweet smile but occasionally the haughty facial expression appear. My narcissist birthday former friend has the same affect as KC Anthony. She is big on religion too and she is able to make a lot of members of her church provide money and gifts and help to her. She’s always struggling financially.

            I’m happy that your therapist and friends support you and agree with you. I totally agree that it is very hard when you have mutual connections that doesn’t have any idea what happened. You don’t want to tell them the story and appear like you are smearing and at the same time it is challenging to know that they might be confused with your new behavior towards the narcissist friend. It is just a phase though and as long as you stay with the program eventually it will become normal to your mutual friends and they will forget about it and wouldn’t even think that you used to be friends etc.

            My husband’s experience with his second wife was tragic indeed. We have a little fenced in part of our property he calls the Secret Garden dedicated to her which has roses which she loved. It’s not triangulation as he has told me that it is the past now and he just feels bad at the thought that she would just disappear in the world without any legacy or memory. But he doesn’t use her to compare to me in any way although his daughters used to do that and he used to tell them how confusing it is because they used to hate her and treat her horribly and now that she is dead she is all of a sudden perfect.

          13. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            I can completely understand your love of the holidays to include Valentine’s Day after reading what you wrote about the inability to celebrate when you are young. Thank you for sharing that! Maybe I am overstepping appropriateness but maybe also the celebration of showing love to and being shown love by those you love may also play a role. Either way that’s great that you are celebrating your style with your children! I love that shirt saying! Your crafts with your children sound cute and will be great memories as they grow!

            I went a slight overboard with my son for Valentine’s Day. He seemed to enjoy it which is what matters. I do love other holidays!

            Does your husband go all out to celebrate your anniversary?

            I was just talking about different narcissists, both mid range I believe, and how different they react in the exact same situation. It’s very interesting to read about the facial expressions and behavior of the different narcissists in your world after that conversation. The use of famous people helped me understand the differences. Both Amber Heard and Megan are being called out by some in the public on their behavior and yet they act like all is good. I wonder how much of the facade would be broken if we studied their faces. I know some talk about the eyes being dead. I never see it. I read different articles about different men killing their current or previous significant other, and a few of the comments on the articles talk about the dead eyes being a give away. I stare and don’t see it. It reminds me of those pictures in the 90s where if you stare at it a clear picture is supposed to form. I never saw it for any picture; I am like one of the characters in “Mall Rats.” Maybe there is something in the smile or the expression that will make it more clear than the eyes.

            Two of our mutual connections have impacted my decision about that friend. I decided that I will not let her impact me but I can’t impact others either. I am not being a friend to her specifically so I have no doubt it will be a slow process but I am not giving up. Thank you for sharing about your experience with the same as it helps when I want to get upset that I can’t just cut and run! I have no plans to hang out in the same way that we did before or be an active person in her life. I think I need to make my walls slowly. Did your church constantly donate each time she had a financial problem?

            I heard about that “Sex” show with Michael Sheen and heard it was very good! I want to see it. Playing narcissists must be his thing. He could be a mid range in this show also, but I think he is a Greater. It could also be that he is a midrange but him being a psychopath makes a difference. I should watch the show to see if I can apply what I learn, but I haven’t yet.

            You are a sweet and considerate wife to accept a special garden for his second wife! I know for different cultures it is important that a person remains “alive” in memory somehow, and maybe this is it for him. I think remembering the good instead of the bad after someone dies is normal for many people. I assume your stepdaughters do it to triangulate but thankfully that is stopped. How hard for you to have to deal with your sister, mom, workmate, and your stepdaughter at the same time. You are one strong woman!

          14. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            You didn’t overstep appropriateness at all and I think that you are also correct. I just love being surrounded by warmth and love from my family and the special occasions give us an opportunity to interact in a special way. My mom wasn’t warm at all. Thank you, I’m happy to think that their interactions with me will become part of their memories. And I hope that they always remember how much they are loved and how much we all laugh together.

            I think that it is awesome that you made your son’s Valentines extra special. I sometimes do that too and I believe that it’s always nice to have that one Christmas or one Valentines when someone went really all out on us. I think if it happens all the time then they can get used to it and it wouldn’t be special anymore but expected.

            My husband doesn’t go all out on our anniversaries either. I think that he just likes to keep things simple. He went all out on our wedding though. He gave me my dream wedding in my home country. His daughters were against it and have tried to convince him to just have a civil wedding since this is just his third wedding anyway. He said that it is my first (and hopefully last lol) so he wanted me to experience a wedding that I wanted. My husband is not the type who wants to go out for dinners. But he likes to hike and do outdoor stuff. He just doesn’t like elegant stuff. When I was still working, I got him a weekend vacation to a really fancy resort in Calistoga as a birthday gift. So we had to leave our car at a certain area and we were picked up by a golf cart to take us to the reception office to check in. The people at the reception seemed to have an air about them which I totally didn’t mind because they were also very nice but he said that they are too pretentious. One of them is gay and had a very flamboyant personality with an accent (which may have been fake) and was so sweet to offer us Chai tea which was the most amazing Chai Rea that I have ever had. I told the guy that the tea was amazing and he told me how their chef added some nutmeg and some other spices that I forgot to it. When we left my husband was mocking the guy with the way he was telling the spices in the Chai tea. I thought it was funny how things like that irritate him although he still had a great time with me but he doesn’t want to go back there. So I think that I shouldn’t push activities to him that he doesn’t enjoy. But thankfully I have kids that I can do stuff like that with. As they get older I can do more stuff with them that my husband doesn’t want to do with me. Like when they’re a little bigger I want to take them to San Francisco and have tea at one of their hotels or go to Chinatown with them and go to a really good dim sum place.

            The ‘dead eyes’ is not a default setting on them. There are situations that their dead eyes are more noticeable. If you image search pictures of Jodi Arias she has a lot of pictures with dead eyes. On some of her posed pictures where she was smiling, her eyes were smiling but there’s not a lot of life coming from it. But then there is Meghan Markle who has perfected her fake sweet smile. She narrows her eyes just a tiny bit to make her smile gentle when she is smiling in front of a crowd or to someone but when she is smiling to no particular person her mouth forms more of a smirk, kind of like the Mona Lisa smile but with more deviousness. My older stepdaughter has a very nice practiced smile too as she was a model but when she is not the center of attention her eyes become either dead or hateful. When my stepdaughters went to my baby shower they arrived late and they seemed like something was bothering them. Then they sat together at a corner and didn’t interact with anybody. I was bothered that they didn’t seem to be having fun to I have been talking to them a lot and included them in conversations and even shared some funny anecdotes about them which got them laughing. I actually almost made my baby shower to be about them just to make them feel at ease. Then when their dad asked them how the shower went, they didn’t have anything good to say. They also criticized me about how I should have introduced them to everyone as soon as they entered the door because they said that’s just how the etiquette is. Interestingly, whenever I went to their events they never introduce me to anyone and I’m always the one who goes to the other guests and introduce myself and ask them how they met my stepdaughters. So I guess they don’t follow etiquette as well. They are both very animated and expressive except when the spotlight is on someone or they have no control.

            Although I might also be noticing more with the facial expressions than most people. I have read that when people grow up in families where they walk on eggshells they learn to be extra sensitive to micro expressions. I can spot the split second expressions on people right after an event that stimulated them and before they correct that reaction. That’s another reason why even though I was so attracted to the handyman who tried to seduce me, I couldn’t ignore the red flags on his expressions so even though I was full of ET and was literally incapable of judging him, I had enough recognition that a lot of things are off with him. And I also didn’t want to put myself in a compromising situation where someone could take a picture of me without my knowledge or record my voice etc and blackmail me to not show my husband. And I also had cognitive empathy towards my husband who is a good person and doesn’t deserve to be betrayed.

            My friend and I never went to that same church. She is a Protestant while I was a Catholic although now I go to the Mormon church with my husband. I just see on her Facebook that she posts whenever she needs help and people from her church always volunteer to help her or give her gifts or money. She then praises them profusely.

            Thank you for your kind words Getting There. I think that we are all strong to survive the narcissists we had to deal with. You are so amazingly strong yourself with how you are raising your son while also working and dealing with your own challenges with you OCD and your narcissist ex. That is a lot to deal with but you are handling it with so much grace. I think that my husband is that kind of person who has to memorialize someone who is gone. But the difference between him and his daughters is that he has never compared me to his second wife. His daughters constantly did but not directly. What they used to do is when something about me is brought up, they will bring her up and use her to one up me. They either bring her up or their mom. There’s always someone better than me in their books. My husband doesn’t compare people. I had a habit of comparing people which I got from my mom. For example I would ask my husband who he thinks is prettier at the Miss Universe contest, Miss France or Miss Venezuela? He would look at the pictures and ask me how can anyone even possibly figure out who’s prettier? They are both pretty but they don’t look the same. My mom would nitpick on every little characteristic just like my stepdaughters and my husband just sees the whole package. He would sometimes pick one because he thinks that the other woman looks like a bitch while the other one seems sweet but not because of their specific looks.

          15. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            It’s the weekend! Are you ready?

            I’m glad you don’t feel that I overstepped! I see wanting to share love as a normal and natural need. I agree with the statement that no one is meant to be an island. It may not be romantic love for all but a love to share really has a positive impact. I may not be imagining it correctly, but it seems like it would have been lonely for you being raised by a single mom who was not loving or kind or even safe in ways. You deserve the great love you have and the ability to share the love you have like you do now with all your family and friends! I think I will be less vocal about my dislike of Valentine’s Day in the future as what you have shared makes me realize that my negative comments can be impacting a time of celebration for someone who may need a day about love of any kind. Thank you! I won’t become a fan of it but just less vocal. LOL

            I go all out for Christmas and Easter! I also overdid it for the Super Bowl even though I don’t follow either teams. I blame tiredness on that one but love the celebration of Christmas and Easter so much. I used to love Thanksgiving and being with family but things aren’t the same with that one by my choice in not wanting to cause hurt or anything. The joy I have seen, when my son and adults of different ages see what Santa or the Easter bunny left for them, makes it worth it to me.

            That sounds like an amazing gift you gave to your husband and yourself with that time away! The place sounds amazing to include the chai tea. Chai is one of my favorites. I’m sorry your husband didn’t enjoy it as much. It’s great sharing with your kids the experiences you enjoy; I’m very similar in that. I know it isn’t the same as if your husband went, but it’s also good to not give up on what you enjoy! Do you have a group of friends who would enjoy with you to do now and then later with your children? I look forwarding to sharing a lot with my son and have shared some of my interests already. It’s fun watching from his eyes or think of things from his view which sometimes opens my mind to things I didn’t think before, so I understand your plans and feelings.

            I’m glad your husband ignored his daughters and gave you your dream wedding! I bet it was beautiful and full of love! Did your dad and husband have an opportunity to meet before your dad died?

            I think you have a great point that people who grow up in abusive homes may have a better ability to pick up subtle facial changes. I followed parts of Jodie Arias trial. I could not tell a difference in her eyes. I can’t tell what you described of Megan either. I am impressed with your abilities to pick up those cues but am sorry you received such an ability due to your mom. It saved you from that guy, saved you from what you would have felt afterwards, and possibly saved your family from a lot of pain. Amazing ability to catch those red flags and amazing ability to trust yourself in this case!!
            My red flags are words. In certain cases, I pay attention to words. It’s not usually a good sign for the other if I am paying attention to their words as that means that something has taken me from the automatic mode of trusting.

            Thank you for the compliments! I can’t speak for you but I find my past experiences to have made me stronger than I knew I could be. I know my situations could be worse in so many ways. I am thankful that it wasn’t worse and thankful for the growth it is giving me.

          16. MommyPino says:

            You’re very welcome Getting There and thank you for the kind words that you always so kindly give me as well.

            In some ways my past has made me stronger and in some ways I feel that it has permanently created some challenges in me that I have to overcome. However I am also very grateful that my life is within my control now and I have the power to take my life any direction that I want it to go.

            Don’t worry about speaking your mind about how you feel regarding Valentines Day. I honestly don’t mind and I totally understand.

            It was very lonely for me to grew up with my mom most of the time but I was blessed to have lots of relatives who are very warm and my interactions with them have shaped me tremendously. A lot of my cousins lives with my mom when I was born until I was about five and so my earliest memories are so full of fun and laughter with them. They were young teenagers at that time so they played with me a lot while they were babysitting me. Then they all got abused by my mom and nobody came back. I was lonely but I started to go to school at six. I was delayed by a year because my mom forgot to enroll me when I was five lol. My mom didn’t allow me to leave our apartment to play with other kids in our neighborhood so I was extremely excited to go to school. Then when I was 8 we moved to the province and we started visiting my grandmother every weekends which I truly enjoyed. They are all very warm and they treated me like I was special. I have a lot of caucasian features which made them treat me like a unique doll. Unlike here where there is so much diversity, in my home country about 95% of people have black hair and brown skin so that is why they treated me that way. I had a lot of cousins that are my age that I played with while visiting my grandma. When I was in sixth grade my mom alienated all of them and I never saw my relatives again until I was in college.

            My husband also loves Easter and Christmas. That’s the time when we both go all out. We have our own egg hunt at our house aside from the egg hunts that we take our kids to. I love decorating during those times.

            It was indeed a really cool place in Calistoga. My husband didn’t enjoy the resort’s culture but they provide bicycles in each units which we used to see the beautiful area surrounding the resort. It was mustard season so it was so beautiful to see the yellow mustard flowers everywhere and the beautiful vineyards. We also went hiking in the petrified forest which my husband totally enjoyed.

            I agree with you on sharing your interests with you son. They say that kids absorb or learn more when it comes from the primary caregiver. Even with my mom I enjoyed it when she helped me do my school art projects. Watching her with how she decorated my art works and seeing her ideas made me very creative. I was much more skilled than her with art but getting some ideas from her got me started into improving my skills and trying different approaches. She was also very much into the Bible and that has introduced me to my lifelong companion.
            I only have three friends here in the US. One of them is an immigrant from Mexico and we have common interests in teaching our kids. We meet for play dates regularly and I love doing it. Her father was also a Lesser narcissist. My other friend is a fellow Filipino immigrant. I have been inviting her to do stuff with me but her live in partner always asks why he is not invited. My husband thinks that they are weird and sometimes I wonder if her partner is a narcissist. But he is super nice to us and our kids and he has been a really good father figure to her son. She was married to a Filipino who physically abused her and hated her son because he is gay. Her son thinks that this guy has been a father to him in so many ways his real father was not. So I can only do stuff with her if her partner who is also our family friend and godfather of both of my kids can come along. My third friend is my former boss who is always busy but we meet for lunch every now and then. She’s an American.

            My dad was actually my husband’s patient. But I never met my husband until after my dad already died. I met my husband at the bank that I worked at as a teller and he was a customer.

            “ It saved you from that guy, saved you from what you would have felt afterwards, and possibly saved your family from a lot of pain. ”
            I couldn’t agree more. I am beyond belief thankful that nothing happened and I have nothing to fear and I didn’t do anything that could possibly hurt my husband. I do believe that my husband would have forgiven me if I did it but I am just thankful that I didn’t do anything that could hurt him.

            My other red flags aside from the facial expressions is the behavior. It has to be a string of behaviors and not just a one off behavior. But I don’t know if I pay attention to the words. How do words become a red flag to you?

            I hope that your weekend was wonderful. I had a good one and a productive one too. 💕

          17. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            This is the third time tonight I am trying to respond. I don’t know what happened to the other two. I hope this one works out.

            How fun for your children and family that both of you get so excited and into those holidays! I love Christmas decorations! I don’t decorate outside but have fun driving around seeing other houses decorated. Easter egg hunts are fun! I like the personal ones better than the public ones. I found that the competition at the public ones made it not fun when the parents “helped” the children by picking up the eggs also. I became frustrated at the unfair advantage over kids, like my son, whose parents wouldn’t help by picking up. I started making sarcastic remarks loudly. It was passive aggressive and a bad way to teach my son how to react.

            That’s great that you had that time with your relatives and that you still have good memories from it! I’m sorry you and your relatives lost years of connection due to your mom’s actions. I hope you have been able to strengthen those bonds now. Do you think that your mom liked the attention you got, was jealous of the attention, or no reaction?

            What a small world that your husband was your dad’s doctor and that you met at work! I wonder if your dad is thrilled in Heaven that you met his doctor and married him. It is quite romantic!

            It sounds like you have good friends. I agree with you that the controlling behavior of your friend’s partner is concerning. The need to be with someone all the time is now a red flag and not romantic! Does she have an issue with it? That’s sad that she escaped the abusive relationship, and I worry she found another with other kind of abuse. Would your husband be willing to hang out with him so you can have a heart to heart and see what she is thinking and feeling?
            I have found that making friends as an adult hasn’t been as easy as a child. My childhood friends don’t live near me. I have since made friends with a few of my son’s friends’ moms. His activites helped me meet others. There is only one here who I trust enough to share a great deal of my experiences. She has great boundaries for herself when it comes to her husband. I am impressed and want to learn from her. It’s interesting that she can understand me in my situations so well when she hasn’t experienced it.

            Behavior is a good red flag! Do you find that your experience with both a lesser and with midranges help you see a range of behavior or are you more in tuned to a certain kind for red flags?

            Examples of how words are red flags for me:
            On a date with a guy before meeting my exhusband, the guy made a “joke” about people in a certain career field. It wasn’t anything different than what comedians joked but it raised a flag as he didn’t know me or my humor to know if I would find that funny or offensive. It was a first date. As the date continued he did and said other things that were filed away in my head, and he didn’t get a second date.
            The one who came after my exhusband made a comment, before we were romantic, that he would enjoy taking me clothes shopping. That comment raised a flag for me. I didn’t see us as a way where he would take me shopping of any kind, and I didn’t understand if there was a perception that he thought I needed something or that he would get a say in what I wear. Plus I hate clothes shopping.
            After we became romantic and after he was destroying my trust, I tested his words and asked questions where he would share stories he already shared to see if the information matched. When details changed, I filed it away in my mind. I fight less when my mind is full of that kind of stuff.
            Another example where words would raise a red flag is if a person answers a question with a vague answer. I hope HG doesn’t mind but I will use a comment of his as an example. I am not trying to pick on HG, but use something as an example if it had been said to me (and if I didn’t know if the person was a narcissist). I don’t remember the exact words however I remember someone asking him about his ability or knowledge of flying. His response came across vague to me with him saying something about him knowing how to fly planes (I’m sorry that I don’t remember the exact words). Something that vague would make me wonder as flying a plane or planes can mean so much, and the comment could lend to a not-so- impressed to very impressed perception depending on what that means. I can fly a plane and have had great fun crash landing, that is on the computer. There are plane simulators. There are RC planes. I had a college friend who took me flying in a Cessna as he had a license for that during college. There are other kind of planes. If someone was that vague to me, I would file it away and wonder what is being hidden.
            Since finding HG and his blog there are more words that jump at me during conversations. Sometimes I will ask the person about what I noticed. Other times, though, I will file it away because I somehow have instinctively figured that if I mention it, the person could potentially explain it where I doubt myself. I give them enough of those in other ways.

            Have you thought more about a job?

            Have you heard the song “No Day But Today” from the musical Rent? I love it and heard it this evening. Without understanding the story, I could see that this song could be viewed as a narcissistic type song. With understanding the story, I feel the words take a different meaning.

          18. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I hope you and your family are doing well!

            I have another example of words being a red flag. Both yesterday and today, Instagram has been strange for me. I have received multiple requests to be followed, some are obvious scams as they stole the name of a famous person, and others are not as obvious. I have received some before but never as many as I have in such a short time. Also I have received communication from 4 strangers wanting to talk. I accepted three conversations, but the fourth was a fake famous person’s account. The three with whom I spoke all raised red flags based on comments. Something each said raised the flag about their honesty, so then I followed up with a question or comment that would let me know if each was lying. They all failed, and now each are blocked. I don’t know what is going on with all of this action on the account in such a short period of time, but I am glad that each said something that raised the flag for me.

          19. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I’m sorry I didn’t get an email notification of your earlier response to me. I got this last one but it looked like there was something before it so I thought that it must be just under moderation. I’m glad that I went to the page itself to check!

            That seems to be common in Instagram and even on Facebook. I have become choosy of those that I accept. I am scared of having a private conversation with someone that I don’t know and have only met on IG and FB. I am not scared if I have met that person from a common interest group before sending me a private message but to get a private message right away for some reason scares me. I have had people sell me stuff after I liked their post that had a hashtag that I was following but I don’t respond to them. If I like their product I will just buy it.

            That is interesting about words as red flags. I now think that there have been instances when that happened to me too. Words that remind me of any of my narcs become red flags for me. The “don’t you ever” phrase can be a red flag for me. The “I’m in a different place in my life now” to denote that s/he has changed can be a red flag for me. Talking on extremes can be a red flag for me. If a person has a tendency to say that some things is the best ever too many times can be a red flag for me. Although I have to say that Chai tea in Calistoga was honestly the best Chai I ever had lol. It’s if almost everything that this person introduces to me is the best (best salad, best recipe for deviled eggs, best root beer, best this and that) as if she is the keeper of the record of the bests, then it is a red flag for me. When someone says “I’m just being honest” often to justify hurtful comments not necessarily towards me, that is a red flag. But like you said, I also file it in my head until I see other red flags that make me believe that this person can be problematic for me in the future.

            In terms of behaviors, HG has helped me so much by identifying and precisely and creatively describing these behaviors for me (for us). Future faking, if it happens several times. But I know that life happens and sometimes things get busy or people get distracted or they just honestly forgot so this is not conclusive for me. Triangulation when it seems to be a habit. Just like your example, it is also a red flag for me when someone is critical about so many people, especially people that are strangers. But it is not conclusive. I just think it demonstrates either lack or not a lot of empathy to make fun of people that they don’t even know, especially if it’s about something benign such as their appearance or race or social status. If it’s about the person’s personality or character then I can probably understand. When someone has a desire to be above others even in stupid reasons. For example, my half sister took me to this bar close to where we live who invented a drink that is popular. The bar is uneven, one side is elevated. So she had us (I was following her lead) sit at the elevated part. She then told me while laughing that she always sits there so she can look down on the people at the lower bar. The narc that I dated when I was in my twenties was also the same. He took me to one of the fanciest hotels in our country and he took me to this somewhat hidden restaurant where there was a glass where we could watch the people dancing below us. And at that time I did not get why he would be interested in watching other people but the food and alcohol was really good and we were treated like a VIP by the servers so I was grateful for the unusual experience. I still am actually. That is also an unfortunate red flag too, when someone takes me to unusual experiences. Unfortunately because that is a red flag that I enjoy. But it is also possible that the person is just like me, an empath who likes adventures so it is not conclusive either.

            I will have to send this now but I have more to write later. 🧡

          20. Mommypino says:

            Another red flag for me is when I share some positive news about me and the person who is either friend or family doesn’t have any excitement or happiness for me. I noticed that even with Normals, there is a happy reaction, no matter how small. Even before they say anything their eyes get bigger and there can even be noticeable ever so slightly raise in the eyebrows even before their mouth smiles. I was thinking about myself how even if something bad is happening to me it is a natural and almost involuntary action to be happy for a friend or family when something good happens to them or they are excited about something. To have a flat affect or dead eyes after I tell them something I am excited about is a major red flag and I think it is actually an underhanded way of undermining me.
            I also agree with you that giving vague answers is a red flag. Remember the “clarity is kindness” quote from Dare to Lead? Clarity is not something that narcissists will be willing to give unconditionally because to them it is surrendering control to the other person. It is letting themselves being vulnerable which they cannot allow. I’m not saying it is good or bad. I just think that it is a good red flag because it means control is important to that person who cannot give clear answers. Although of course with HG his answers are often vague when it comes to questions about him. He controls what he allows us to know about him. But when it comes to narcissism he give us clarity because it serves his purpose. Ultimately it is always in his terms. My husband’s first wife I believe is a narc and whenever he talks to her he gets so frustrated at how inept she is at talking to him like a normal person. She is not talented at doing circular conversations like HG’s illustrations so she uses stuttering and “aah…ehh…ahh” a lot and then she says something irrelevant and even incomprehensible. He often just cuts her off with her stuttering by repeating his question louder in a way that is answerable by only yes or no and he often has to do it several times even after he tells her he has to go. Her stuttering in a meek and confused way is her Victim way of manipulation. He doesn’t let her notice how frustrated he is but after he hangs up he would finally let out his frustration.

            Another red flag is when I notice that I am being compartmentalized. Even with that former friend that has the KC Anthony affect (I’ll call her KC), she knew that I didn’t grow up here and didn’t have any mother friends and even though I have asked her several times to invite me to the play dates she goes to with her friends so I can socialize my son she never did. And when she found out that I was able to be friends with one of her mom friends she almost looked panicked. Then she even looked more pricked when I was able to find a way to join the big play group co op that she was in and weirdly she managed to not attend the play dates that I RSVPd in. It’s the same with my half sister. She never invited me to join her and her friends when they went out even though at that time I was new in the country, had no car and didn’t know anyone because I wasn’t able to get a job yet. She showed off her friends to me when they visited her at our dad’s house which we lived together in after he died and she made sure I know how impressive they all are. I eventually showed lack of interest about her friends and even showed her I was too busy to meet them whenever they came to our house. I believe that compartmentalization of people is not normal and is indicative of a person’s dire need for control.

            I will write more tomorrow. ❤️😘

          21. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I wrote this reply earlier but lost it when I went back to it. 😭. But now I have time to write it again.

            I totally agree with you about how annoying those parents are who help their kids. Even those parents who spot the eggs for their kids. I think that they are taking away the joy from their kids of finding the eggs themselves.

            I think that my mom enjoyed the attention that I got because it opened the door for her to talk to people about me, my dad, our situation, how she takes care of me and that someday we will live in America. I was more like a prop. But I still got to interact with all of them a lot which was great even though my mom was always around. What I noticed made her upset was whenever she can tell that I love and trust any of her relatives. Whenever I express my admiration towards any of them, even her kindest sister who was always there for her, my mom would immediately say a lot of negative things about them and tell me that I just don’t know them well because I’m still a child so I am not smart yet. It has been a cause of many fights we had. Especially when I defend them or I tell her that they treat their children with respect but she doesn’t respect me. Whenever I told her to respect me it made her laugh and she said that my brain is upside down, the parents are the ones that children need to respect not the other way around.

            Thank you. I hope that my dad is happy. He has told me before a few times that my husband is a good man although he probably never thought that I would marry him. I don’t know how my dad would have felt if he saw me date him especially regarding the age gap. Although my dad was in his late fifties when he got my mom pregnant. Something that I really wish was that my dad saw and got to hug his grandkids from me.

            I will write more about my friend tomorrow. 🧡

          22. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I can’t imagine what it could be like to move to another country with no friends, family you were getting to know, and no car in an area that needs a car. I’m sorry that your sister treated you like that and caused further hardship in your move!

            When you said that compartmentalizing people is a red flag, I had to think how I am. I compartmentalize people based on roles. It helps to know the rules of each role. When roles mix, I struggle until I can define the relationship. I then understood what you meant by not mixing friendship. It confuses me when people do that. I will admit that I struggled in introducing different friends but did it recently for the Super Bowl. I have friends who are all about talking sex and then I have friends who don’t mention sex at all. I was worried, but it all worked out. It really is hard to meet friends as adults, so it wasn’t fair of your friend to keep you from play dates and meet others. It made me laugh to know that you showed her that you didn’t need her or her help.

            Future faking is something new for me. When I first read about it here, I tried to figure out if I had experienced it and could not think of a time. Now that I have read about it, I see it by others. Sometimes my ex- husband would use words that would negate a promise, so it was easy for both of us to know he didn’t plan it as a guarantee. When he did comment as a guarantee for things I wanted, I didn’t give him a chance to not follow through as I would jump in and do it or plan myself. As for the guy after him, he would use “if” to show he was only playing what if. You’re right that future faking is a red flag that is file worthy. I agree that people become busy and people forget, but I think that is the positive of filing red flags when people can show themselves through time versus one time event. The more my head contains flags the easier it becomes to walk away.

            I know sarcasm is a red flag for some. I personally enjoy a witty back and forth, so I would see it as an attractive trait instead of a red flag. Just today my friend reminded me of a guy I was involved with in the past. A big part of the reason I had been attracted to him was his sarcasm. As it turned out, I met a guy who went to college with him after things ended. His only comment about the guy I had been involved with was that he was an “a**hole.” At the time I wondered if his humor could have been misunderstood. Now I wonder about how it is determined what qualities attract us. Is it ingrained or do we learn somehow?

            Your mom was jealous and losing what control she thought she had over you. Good for you for standing up for yourself and others regardless of your mom’s reaction!! I can see how she would play up the attention in her victim style way. It is sick, but I am glad you found good in it that helped you.

            I think the whole connection is romantic! Your dad may have been concerned about the age difference, but I am sure if he knew you were happy then that would be all that mattered. I am a believer that our relatives in Heaven meet our children before we do. They play, talk, and give hugs. I have no doubt your dad gave them lots of hugs!

          23. MommyPino says:

            Hello Gettin There,

            Thank you for your wonderful comments. I’m sorry for not being able to respond quicker. I have been sick and then now that I am better I have been occupied with monitoring the Corona virus situation. We live in a retirement community and with all of the elderly here I am worried about it getting here. Although thankfully there is no confirmed case yet in our county. I have decided to stay local this spring break to remove the possibility of picking something up and bringing it here in our area. My family is healthy and will recover from it but I don’t want to infect the vulnerable people in our community.

            Events are being canceled now and sadly the tee ball practices too. My son had his first practice yesterday and on our way home he couldn’t stop telling me that he can’t believe how much he enjoyed it. But I am glad that we are taking precautionary measures. My husband and I also got to take our kids to a super hero party last weekend and that was really fun for them. My husband drove for us because I didn’t had sleep because of my asthma.

            I want to tell you about my friends situation later. I also thank you for your supportive comments. But I have to take a break from Narcsite for now as I couldn’t stop thinking about my community and the current situation. I want to see how I can be helpful and to focus that my family is safe and ready for whatever might happen.
            I hope and pray that you and your family is ok as well and no harm will ever come near you and everyone that you care about. I will be back when I feel that everything is sorted. Love to you! 🧡🧡🧡

          24. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I know you won’t read this for awhile, but I wanted to make sure it was here for when you returned.

            I’m sorry you were sick! You are such a good person for caring so much about your neighbors! Thank you for the prayers and you and your loved ones are in my prayers.
            My son’s school has closed. It will all work out, so I am not stressing about balancing everything. As for the coronavirus, I don’t worry for myself. Like you, I worry about others. I worry about giving it to someone who can become very seriously ill and even die from it. I had this discussion with someone just yesterday about how there are people who look young and healthy but could have an underlying condition. It’s great that there are people like you helping others!!

            There’s an update on the friend thing but we can catch up on all we want to share when we both return to narcsite.

            You will be in my thoughts and prayers! Thank you for being a good friend on here! I am thankful for you.

          25. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            Thank you so much for your sweet comment. I hope that you and your loved ones are ok and that you are able to stock up adequate supplies in case of an order to shelter in place. I was busy getting my family ready for that last week and these past days. I’m almost done and just finishing my last few errands. Our city still doesn’t have a shelter in place order but the neighboring counties and one city just fifteen minutes away from us already has. When it goes in effect here I will have to stay home because I have a chronic disease and apparently that puts me in a high risk. Although I have been reading and I don’t see enough information on asthma and Coronavirus. Also the actor Idris Elba has asthma too and he has Corona virus and he’s still alive. But regardless I still need to follow the orders if that is what the experts believe to be what is best. My husband is 67 yrs old and in that high risk age category as well but he is still seeing patients. He has been cancelling appointments and surgeries of patients in the high risk category since last week. One daughter of his patient got so mad at him on the phone but he explained that her mom is 80 yrs old and if he does surgery on her she will have to visit his office for post surgery monitoring and care and it’s too risky for her to be out and about with the virus potentially being around our county (we still don’t have confirmed cases).

            I hope that the situation is not causing problems with you especially regarding the father of your son. I hope that you are doing well and not too stressed with all of this.

            Sending love and thoughts to you. 🧡

          26. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            I haven’t heard from you in a while so I just thought to check in. I hope that you and your son are doing ok with this COVID-19 situation. Love to you and take care! 🧡💕

          27. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There!!! I’m so happy to read again from you! I don’t receive any notifications anymore so I’m glad that I checked in the blog itself. I have a lot to tell you but right now I have to go to sleep. I have been busy raking pine needles today and I am so tired now. But I am so happy to see your response. I saw your comment at the Empowered Empath thread so I had an idea to double check if you have responded here. I’m so glad that I saw it. Knight sounds fantastic and totally perfect for you. I’m glad that you enjoyed it. I took a Trait Detector this weekend and I am excited to see the results. I will write more tomorrow. So happy to see your message and I missed you very much too!!! 🧡

          28. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I’m sorry! I have been away from the site since I wrote that last message. Along with everything else, I was reacting internally to specific things and thought it best to become obsessed with the news instead. LOL You are often in my thoughts but today was a strong one so I came to send you a message and then found your messages. You are so sweet!

            How are you? How is your family? I saw your previous message that they didn’t have you on shut down. Has that changed? That’s great that both you and your husband are doing what you can to protect yourselves, and I know still caring for others! I have read asthma is a risk due to what this can do to lungs. I think there is so much speculation and not enough facts. I’m so thankful you are doing what you need to protect you! Hopefully this time is also a fun time with your children! That is sad that your husband had to explain the risks to the daughter! I hope she understood after that.

            We are in locked down but we can get out to work, grocery shop, and outdoor exercise. That last part has been nice! I am not a meal planner so I need to grocery shop more than we are advised. LOL I just found out a friend has this so I have been texting with her when she has the strength. I originally downplayed this but I have come to recognize I was wrong. I am very direct with people who do whatever because they don’t feel that they are a risk. I remind them it isn’t about them. I was sent a Corona version of Bohemian Rhapsody and it got to the part where the singer talks about accidentally getting someone else sick who dies, I cried. I know many with underlying conditions or compromised immunity. Thankfully they are like you doing what they can to protect, but the lack of care for others just gets to me.
            I have prayed a bit for the narcissist that came after my ex- husband. I haven’t contacted him. If I thought it could be a simple “you ok?” and then we move on with our lives, then I would.
            My son misses his friends. I don’t allow him to play video games online due to the risks there, so I downloaded an app where he can use it to video chat with his friends if they have it too.

            I hope you are enjoying the spring weather! I have missed you!

          29. mommypino says:

            Hello Getting There 🧡

            I was so happy to see your messages last night. I have been busy with yard stuff and homeschooling lately as I am sure you are going through the same thing with your son. We have a lot of pine trees in our property so I have been raking a lot of pine needles on our hilly property. I’m trying to get our yard ready for our private Easter egg hunt. We have had the shelter in place since March 18 or 19. But I was able to grab everything that we will need for the egg hunt before the lock down. I had a feeling that it was going to be more than two weeks. My husband thought that I was overreacting but I learned from my dad to always think ahead. He was a decorated WW2 vet so he definitely knew about survival. I had to leave the house once last week to get milk though because my kids drink a lot of milk but it was a quick in and out thing.

            My husband still works because he said that his patients need him. He rejects appointments from high risk people though. Some of them get offended and ask him why he doesn’t want to see them anymore. He tells them because they have to stay inside because they are high risk. He checks the temperature of everyone that comes in and he said that he will ask him to go home if it’s too high.

            I have never heard of the Corona virus Bohemian Rhapsody. Bohemian Rhapsody is the first song that made me want to listen to music. In my home country, music is usually in my opinion boring ballads and corny love songs that I was not into music at all until when I was on sixth grade and my mom and I lived in a bed spacer dormitory with high school and college students and one college student was practicing for her interpretative dance and the music was Bohemian Rhapsody and for the first time in my life I have heard a song that was interesting and I really love. I saw several versions of the Corona Bohemian Rhapsody but I wasn’t able to watch any because I am pretty sensitive and picky about other people singing that song.

            Have you seen the Backstreet Boy’s I Want It That Way while self isolating? I almost cried watching it. Even though their songs are not my usual cup of tea I still get sentimental because their songs were played everywhere when I was in high school. It was so nice to see them in their nice homes looking healthy and happy and Kevin and Nick even showed their kids. If I am to guess, I don’t think that there is a narcissist in that group. I remember Nick having family problems and he had that awful reality show about his dysfunctional family which I have never watched so I may not really know what I am talking about. But he seems to have avoided a tragic trajectory and is now happily married with two kids.

            I think that is the worst part is the risk of giving the virus to someone who will not survive. I don’t know how someone can live with that guilt. It would have to be very hard and I pray for the people who have inadvertently infected people and are suffering from severe guilt. I hope that they are able to forgive themselves.

            It is very kind of you to think of the narcissist who came after your son’s dad. I think that it is very wise of you to also refrain from contacting him. I think that you are able to find the balance of recognizing your need to protect yourself while staying true to your nature. I think that prayers are more powerful than we could ever imagine and praying for someone is sometimes more helpful than trying to help them ourselves.

            I’m so happy to know that you are doing fine. I am so lucky that everyone that I know are doing fine. My husband thinks that this is all overblown and he wants to open the economy back. He thinks that the forecasts of when the peak will happen keeps getting moved. I can understand what he is saying but every time I see what is happening to Italy it makes me want to go in the side of caution. It is really hard for people in poor countries though. In my home country there has been protests to allow people to work again because they are starving while locked down. Most people there live in daily income so their income for today will be spent tomorrow for food and other necessities. They save enough to be able to buy clothes every once in a while but about 90% of their daily income gets spent the next day. So they can’t afford to stop working. It is a really bad time all over the world.

          30. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I just wrote a comment but cannot see it pending post. I hope to find it or I will rewrite.

            I hope you are doing! I have missed you!

          31. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino!

            I’m so glad to hear that you and your family and safe and doing well!! I hear gardening is relaxing. Is that the same for you? I’ve tried it before and it was stressful to me. LOL
            How are your children doing during this time? How do they do with homeschooling?
            Our school closure has been extended. My son has been amazing through everything! Homeschooling has been interesting. His dad and I have different styles. I see the benefits of both styles. That is so good that your huband is still seeing patients even though he is in a high risk category. That says a lot about his character!

            The description of the financial situation is so sad! I can’t imagine having to fear for health and life at the same time worried about paying for every day essentials. The damage to the world to include economically is just sickening and sad! While I understand the concern driving the comments about returning to work, I don’t understand the dumbass comments like the Texas Lt Governor who said that there are elderly willing to be sacrificed to help the economy. I look at WWII as hope that if we all do what we need now to stop the spread and damage of the virus, then the economy will improve shortly thereafter. We were in a Great Depression and then joined the war. People did what they could; industry concentrated on development of war equipment and all; and the economy was different after the war than before. I just have hope that we can see similar, in a positive way, after this pandemic. In the meantime, I usually hate when celebrities announce how they will donate money, now I want to see more donations.

            I have found out another friend and her family have it. Thankfully most have slight symptoms with no fever. I haven’t heard from my other friend in days which isn’t like her. I’m getting worried but hoping that she’s away from phone to concentrate on resting.
            Silly stuff can be found on phone that isn’t needed to be seen while sick.

            I agree that prayer is sometimes the only thing and sometimes the best thing.

            The creativity by people on YouTube at this time is great! I really enjoyed the family that changed the “Les Mis” song and the boy in the car with his mom changing another “Les Mis” song. Chris Mann has some great Corona songs. The French orchestra played “Bolero” in a great video!

            Have you heard the Fugees version of Bohemian? It brought out the words Queen was singing in a different way. I used to think of Waynes World with that song. Thankfully I have outgrown that.

            I would like to see a study done on children of different age groups after this and follow in time. I also wonder if this lock down would increase, decrease, or have no impact on the development of narcissists.

          32. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There 🧡

            First of all I want to say that I’m sorry that you have friends who got the virus. I didn’t fully understand your previous message and I wanted to clarify if you meant that your friend got the Corona virus. I got confused and wasn’t sure if you meant that your friend has a meal planner or the virus. I apologize as my comprehension can be slow sometimes. I hope that she is ok too. I will be praying for her. I hope that you hear from her soon and she gives you positive news. I hope that your other friend and her family will be ok too.

            Also I forgot to say that my son also misses his friends. I’m guessing that your son is probably slightly older than mine so this is probably harder for your son. I am glad that he is doing really well. It means that you are handling it very well. My son has told me once that he is misses school but he hasn’t repeated it yet. There’s a Facebook of the school where they do a virtual spirit theme where we have a theme each day and we share pictures like pajama and wild hair day etc. I was able to show him the pictures submitted by three of his friends and he was excited to see their pictures and I have submitted his pictures too. I noticed that not many parents were participating and it’s pretty much the same parents who are participating everyday. I wish that the kids in his class could meet one last time before summer of to at least all meet at the local beach in the summer and play together. California already announced that school will not be back until next school year. Is your son able to keep in touch with his friends? Also is his dad a narcissist?

            My husband indeed has a solid character. If he was more sensitive and empathic I would have thought that he’s a Super Empath and most likely a Carrier-Magnet combination. But he is not very empathic. He does help people but he doesn’t go out of his way for people outside his family. But he is a good doctor and there were times that he even went to his patients’ homes to help them because their feet were so bad that they couldn’t go to his office. A lot of his patients love him and they always tell me whenever they see me. Although they also pick on him a lot because he picks on them too. Also he isn’t very empathic because when I told him about “Clarity is Kindness” quote by Brene Brown he immediately rolled his eyes. And then he started picking on me about it like repeatedly saying that I’m not being clear or I need to give him more clarity and then when I react he says, “there’s no kindness there!”

            That was such a callous and idiotic comment by the Texas Lt Governor. (I hope that he’s not a Republican) but even if he is I still don’t like him. I hope that he loses the next election. My husband can be very logical but he would never say such a thing. He is straightforward but there is a limit to him because his empathy puts a brake on it. So I bet that the Lt Governor is a narcissist. I cannot imagine anyone with empathy saying something like that. My husband thinks that it could be more logical to only isolate people who are in the high risk category and have the government support them during the pandemic and have the rest of the population keep working. But he also agrees that it may not work.

            Are you familiar with a Filipino boxer Manny Pacquiao? He was very accomplished in boxing and he has earned so much money although he wasn’t able to defeat Floyd Mayweather whom I think is a narcissist. Anyway, I have always been a big fan of him even when he was just starting. The first time that I saw him fight, there was something about his personality and fighting style that made me so happy watching him it was like whatever he does he was so full of heart. But on the early times of his victories he started to become a womanizer, gambler and started to have a diva attitude. Then he lost and got humbled and became more serious with his Christianity and then became faithful to his wife and started to help all kinds of people in my country. He is a Senator right now and he uses his own money to buy infrastructure for many communities in the impoverished areas. He has been using his own money to buy groceries and distribute it to the poor areas so people can stay locked down during the pandemic. And unlike the corrupt politicians there who buys the groceries with the government’s money and then prints their names on the bag, he doesn’t even put his name on the bags. Also many politicians there have taken the Coronavirus test multiple times even though they didn’t have symptoms and they even demanded for their test results to be prioritized over people who were in the ICU. Pacquiao still hasn’t had himself tested and he doesn’t even wear a face mask and he just keeps working. At times I wondered if he is a narcissist because he womanized, he is very vain, competitive, and he always have all kinds of people around him. But now I wonder is he is a Super Empath. I still don’t really understand what makes one a Super Empath but I think if they look like a narcissist and they are empathic then they are probably Super Empaths. Also the amount of charity that he does publicly and privately is totally on a much higher level than a big majority of people. Right now also with the way that he talks and smiles I really have an intuition that he is highly empathic.

            I will have to say good night now but I will write again tomorrow. Love to you my friend. Take care and stay safe!! 🧡

          33. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            It looks like I still have some time left to write more.

            Those are interesting thoughts you raised about how this affects children of different age groups and also the development of narcissists and may I add damaged empaths as well. For me personally my life as a child was very similar to a lock down because my mom didn’t allow me to go outside to play and in most of the apartments that we rented she and I slept in the same room. I think I didn’t even get to sleep on my own bed until I was in high school. Before that we slept in the same bed. The only socialization I had was school and monthly or weekend visits to my grandma where I was able to play with cousins of the same age as me. If I lost school too I would have been so delayed compared to most kids and I would probably be so amazingly insecure that I would just shrink away from people. I feel bad for the kids who are stuck with bad parents. There is a story that I cannot shake off from my memory that I have read from the news. This girl died because her mom and stepdad had her be raped and physically abused by different sick people. People from her school was totally devastated and affected by her tragic death and overcome by feelings of not being able to help her. Ever since I have learned about the schools being closed I have been bothered by this thought and praying to please do not let sick people abuse these kids. Sometimes I wish that my career was more in line with catching sick people like that and making sure that they will never hurt another child again but it’s too late for me now and I can still do my part as a private citizen by being observant and more involved in my community. My kids are also my number one priority for my time and everything. But I agree that this situation will definitely make a lot of impact on children.

            I will check the videos tomorrow. I am interested in seeing them.

            Nite nite for now and I will be praying for your friend too. I hope that you hear from her soon. Take care and stay safe always!! 🧡

  8. Violetta says:

    There may be ONE realistic (sort of) depiction of Mawiage and Twue Wuv.

    A guy found a bizarre ’70s porn film in an old cinema, involving a redneck couple arguing while trying to have sex (he can’t get it up). The footage was released decades later by a cult film company as Bat Pussy.

    It has been suggested that the film be shown to teenagers as part of school abstinence programs, as it ought to turn anyone who sees it off sex for years, possibly permanently.

    Sample dialogue:

    Unidentified drunk male hillbilly: You don’t know how to suck a dick, do you?
    [Pauses ]
    Unidentified drunk male hillbilly: Hey! You ain’t answered yet!
    Unidentified drunk female hillbilly: How can I answer with a mouth full of dick?

    Unidentified drunk male hillbilly: “My horoscope says I’m going to fuck you in the nose.”

    Unidentified drunk female hillbilly: Hey, lemme tell you somethin’
    [* tilts to one side and farts loudly * ]

    The realism diminishes when superheroine Bat Pussy comes to make it a threesome, commuting on an
    inflatable hippity hop ball (aka space hopper) to the sound of “Sewer Lady,” pirated from the ’60s Batman TV series.

    No one knows what the original purpose of the movie was (though it’s likely lots drugs were involved), but it might be the best way to render viewers immune to a few narcs with Pepé Le Pew routines.

    1. Getting There says:

      I wonder what his sign is. It doesn’t sound like a good horoscope day.

      Princess Bride is one of the best movies, in my opinion.

  9. AnneB says:

    Hi H.G., re: Lennon’s “The Walrus” and your comment up thread. The parts written after imbibing LSD would include
    “I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
    Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob”?

    Very dry! (humour I mean).

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, I think that part was dictated but Ringo has his hands over Lennon´s mouth.

      1. AnneB says:

        haha, nice one!

  10. Pati says:

    I am waiting to see the movie No Time To Die with Daniel Craig. Coming out 2020 .I think HG could resemble Daniel Craig for some reason .

    1. MB says:

      Pati, he has said that he does resemble DC. K can get the info once she’s done finding Pamela links if she’s so inclined to do so. Isn’t she the best Narchivist ever?!?

      1. Pati says:

        MB, are you serious ? I just got the impression in my mind. I must be physic I think . Sorry MB what did you mean about K?

        1. MB says:

          Pati, K can find the thread(s)where HG describes his appearance.

          1. Pati says:

            MB, lol thank you for explaining ! Your a sweety!
            Hopefully K can find it

          2. MB says:

            Pati, she has all his stats assembled and can tell you more. As for my knowledge, he is tall, blonde, and has blue eyes. (And gorgeous legs!)

          3. Pati says:

            He certainly does and dont forget a sexy voice!
            He sounds very handsome just like I thought .Maybe i will leave the rest to my imagination.

        2. K says:

          Pati
          Now you can use your imagination!

          Kiki says:
          September 26, 2018 at 19:25
          Dear HG , the pic of the dark shadow of a man in a suit on your YouTube videos ,is that actually you .If it is you nice shoulders ,
          Im just curious .

          Yours Kiki

          REPLY
          HG Tudor says:
          September 27, 2018 at 18:41
          It is, thank you.

          https://narcsite.com/2018/09/26/a-letter-to-the-narcissist-no-82/#comments

      2. Violetta says:

        The Narchivist.

        My new superhero.

        1. K says:

          Violetta
          Hahaha…it does have a nice ring to it!

    2. K says:

      Pati
      Here you go!

      K says:
      November 3, 2018 at 18:57
      P.S.
      HG is 6’ 1” with blond hair (think Daniel Craig), blue eyes and full lips.

      https://narcsite.com/2018/11/01/the-haunted-chamber-3/

      Strongerwendy says:
      June 25, 2018 at 20:52
      HG, do you look anything like this Herve Renard football coach I happened upon while watching world cup today? Very nice.

      REPLY
      HG Tudor says:
      June 25, 2018 at 21:09
      Ha ha, there are some similarities, but not dead ringers.

      https://narcsite.com/2018/06/25/7-back-handed-provocations-of-the-narcissist-2/

      HG Tudor
      JUNE 23, 2018 AT 23:37
      I am an actor but I m not a trained actor, therefore I would choose Christian Bale or Daniel Craig.

      https://narcsite.com/2015/08/31/target-acquired/

      1. Desirée says:

        K
        Just when I thought I could not be more impressed with you. Seriously, how do you do that? Do you have the worlds best search engine at your finger tips or is that search engine just you brain? Also, I’m not trying to be pushy here but I just thought about how entertaining it would be if your username was actually “The Narchivist” and then we could cheer you on saying “The Narchivist strikes again!”

        1. K says:

          Desirée
          Hahahaha….“The Narchivist” would be a cool username!!! I just might change it. The worlds best search engine at my finger tips is correct. The magic is in the fingers!

          There are several ways to pull up old threads or comments. I use both the search function on narcsite and Google and, sometimes, I just remember the convo by the name of the thread.

          1. The morality convo is on the Fueltania thread a.k.a. A Stolen Love.
          2. The shampoo thread is on Viking by Creed (Perfect Scents)
          3. The peacock/animal/zoo comment is on the Assateague thread (Letter no- 40)
          4. The Micheal Jackson thread is The Narcissist’s Realty Gap.

          I use words to manipulate the search engines and find answers for the bloggers who need them. “The Narchivist strikes again!”

          https://narcsite.com/2019/04/28/i-use-words-purely-to-control-4/comment-page-1/

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Dearest HG and K. I can not find any clear info. on google regarding what is: Royal Tea. Whether it is a company brand or a flavor or a type, etc.: I can not figure it out at all on that search engine. HG, Will you please tell me about the Royal Tea and the particulars about this tea? K. I remember Woke describing you as the Narchivist. I second!!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            It is Royal Blend tea. That is as far as this thread will go with regard to tea-drinking.

          3. K says:

            PrincessSuperEmpath
            Hahahaha…thank you! Fortnum and Mason has a wonderful website and you find what you are looking for there.

      2. Pati says:

        Thank you so much K , i started the blog in Aug 2019 so i appreciate it ! I cant believe i visioned HG as Daniel Craig. Well he is a hunk then!

        1. K says:

          Pati
          Of course he’s a hunk! Let me know if you want “The Full Monty” re: HG.

          1. Pati says:

            Hey ,sure K go for it the Full Monty regarding HG why not lol

          2. K says:

            Pati
            Hahaha…ok, here’s The Full Monty!

            HG is an Ultra Elite Nomadic high functioning narcissistic psychopath, who is indirectly linked with Parliament. He likes to drink tea, either Royal Tea or Moroccan Mint Tea, both from Fortnum and Mason, and he does not frequent coffee shops. HG enjoys writing, history (especially 12-17th century English/British History), football, badminton, fencing, shooting, film, literature, fine dining, ballistics and weaponry and watching plays. He has 20/20 vision, which makes him an excellent marksman, and he can also fly planes and speak German. He follows The Economist, Financial Times and such like-for information.

            HG is 6’ 1” with blond hair (think Daniel Craig), blue eyes, full lips and arched eyebrows. 
He is a Gen-Xer, however, 3 fresh souls a day keeps him looking like he is 22. He’s a Virgo, who was born during the “Season of mists and mellow fruitfulness,” (autumn), and has 2 wishes: an extra set of hands and for people to understand he does not do the blog for fuel. Currently, he has five telephones.

            He is ambidextrous but his left hand is dominant. HG does not smoke (It’s a filthy and disgusting habit) or have any tattoos and his IQ is 134 (he scored a 1 on the HSP test). His preferred socks are TM Lewin, Ralph Lauren or Hugo Boss and he wears boxers; CK.

            Family Motto: Victoria Aut Morte, favorite football team: Manchester City, favorite band: Depech Mode.
            There are 25 hours in a Tudor day, and he enjoys eating souls for fun. Previously, he owned a Mercedes (anthracite black) then a Jaguar and now a Tesla Model S. HG triple tracks, never worries and is not lonely or sad; he is cold order and belongs to nobody.

            Engaged twice, married once, no children. His girlfriend is Sheildmaiden; he prefers Magnet Super Empaths and has never had an IPPS who was a narcissist and he likes to create ever presence with Viking by Creed.

            Lennox (brother): standard carrier empath.
            Rachael (sister): Co-dependent.
            Father: Co-dependent.
            MatriNarc: UMR Elite.

            Pssst…His name is john smith but don’t tell anybody.

          3. Pati says:

            Wow a lot of info on the king lol. THANKS K your the best !
            I also believe he likes creed cologne,wine,and finlandia vodka.lol

          4. K says:

            You are welcome Pati!
            Oh, I left out a lot of things but I will switch it up for the next time.

          5. Pati says:

            Thanks again K, please keep me updated!

          6. K says:

            My pleasure Pati and will do!

          7. K. I am so happy that HG drinks tea. I would never have guessed. I wonder what that Royal Tea tastes like. I am a tea-drinker– not a connoisseur though. But, I like the sound of that Royal Tea. Very interesting. K, are you sure that HG was not jesting regarding liking tea? Thanks for the info. I do not have an international sports team, so I will adopt the Manchester Team. So, I need to look up their schedule, etc. Huzzah! (HG, I do not desire to wear out the shout, Huzzah, but ever since I read it from you, I find it to be terrific! I just love it. And I do not know of a comparative exclamation according to my tastes. Huzzah! )

          8. K says:

            My pleasure PrincessSuperEmpath
            Huzzah, I’m a tea drinker, too. Order some Royal Tea and let us know if you like it. I asked him if he liked to drink tea when I was new to the blog and this was his answer.

            HG Tudor says:
            June 1, 2017 at 12:06
            I do drink tea. I drink either Royal Tea or Moroccan Mint Tea, both from Fortnum and Mason.

            https://narcsite.com/2017/05/30/why-is-he-always-in-my-head-4/

            HG Tudor
            JANUARY 16, 2019 AT 07:29
            1. I do not frequent coffee shops – I think I may have visited them less than half a dozen times in my life.
            
2. Nobody ignores me.

            https://narcsite.com/2019/01/15/how-to-make-the-narcissist-return-5/

          9. K says:

            PrincessSuperEmpath
            Here are more tea comments.

            HG Tudor says:
            March 27, 2017 at 11:42
            I don’t like Earl Grey. Breakfast tea or peppermint. I do not drink a lot of tea either.

            HG Tudor says:
            March 27, 2017 at 10:48
            Very rarely ABW, I am not a huge fan and usually only do so for a particular purpose. I prefer tea if I have a hot drink. Or hot vimto.

            https://narcsite.com/2017/03/26/try-walking-in-my-shoes-3/#comments

          10. Violetta says:

            Princess:
            Everybody supports Man U. Couldn’t you go off the beaten path a bit? West Ham, Luton, over half a dozen football clubs in Newcastle alone.

            Just don’t be a Liverpool Supporter. If HG supports Man U, that would put you in The Dungeon for sure.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Well not everybody supports Manchester United, if they did, no other teams would exist.

            There is only one professional league football team in Newcastle, that is Newcastle United. Gateshead are over River Tyne, but they are non-league. Sunderland are in League One and are about 15 miles away. After that you have Middlesbrough about 45 minutes´drive south of Newcastle. Beyond that there are a lot of non-league sides but that goes for all over the UK. If you are looking for league sides, the nearest to Newcastle is Sunderland, then Middlesbrough, after that you need to go north into Scotland or west to Carlisle or south to the Leeds/Bradford area for league sides.

            I do think that you need some lessons on British geography Violetta, you are clearly an educated person and I think especially so with regard to the arts and literature, but not geography and football!

            I do not support Manchester United. Suggesting that I do is a dungeon-worthy offence. Off you go!

          12. Violetta says:

            HG: K said you support Manchester City. I knew several grad students who all claimed to be Man U supporters, possibly as a hipster thing. (Clearly, there’s a distinction I didn’t get.) I admit, my personal experience of the UK is limited to one visit to London and two visits to Leeds, which I liked better because they don’t talk funny like Londoners.

            As for football, I got a Leeds United FC jersey partly as a tourist thing, since one conference-goer was on crutches and had promised to get her husband an LUFC keychain and I figured I’d pick up something for myself while I was in Leeds City Centre getting the keychain. I also got it partly in honor of my grandfather, who grew up in Leeds, though I have no idea whether he was a football supporter at all. Not that it matters, because a) we didn’t get on; and b) around the time I was there, LUFC were more famous for violence off the pitch than on it. Half of them were had up for Violent Assailing, or whatever the UK equivalent of A&B is.

          13. Violetta says:

            I am sorry I supposed you to be a Man U supporter, HG.

            I will never make such a horrid assumption again.

            Please stop putting Celine Dion on the speakers down here. There is such a thing as Cruel and Unusual Punishment, even for me.

          14. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            K. Thank you for the info. on HG and Tea. The info is quite worthwhile to me. (notice the rhyme?) lol.

          15. K says:

            My pleasure PrincessSuperEmpath
            Hahahaha….the rhyme is funny and I am very happy that you found the info worthwhile!

          16. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Violetta: I regret to inform you that I will not be taking your sporting recommendations especially attached with your geographical knowledge of Teams and their locations, at this time. I have decided to go in another direction. Do you have a favorite football team? Thank you kindly for your input.

        2. K says:

          My pleasure Pati!

        3. K says:

          Pati
          This is the original comment re: DC.

          HG Tudor says:
          April 8, 2018 at 15:00
          Not Boris, Not Jude, DC is closer.

          https://narcsite.com/2018/04/03/how-long-can-you-resist-5/

        4. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Dearest HG: There are 2 Manchester teams? In the same League? Manchester City plays Manchester United this Saturday, if I am looking at the correct data. I guess Manchester is a large area to have 2 teams? Darn: I think Manchester United is having somewhat of a troubled season, so far. Oh no! And, Manchester United seems to have a lot of Draws. That seems odd. I wonder why is that. I don`t know how to analyze these standings with all of these Draws. But, a Draw is surely better than a loss. Anyway: Go Manchester U. Huzzah! HG, does this qualify as the oddest post of the day? Huzzah!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            As a result of this post, a town’s Christmas lights have been switched off.

          2. Pati says:

            Elfy can turn the Christmas lights back on if you let him.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I’m lowering him into a vat of sulphuric acid so darkness will reign

          4. Pati says:

            HG, i dont want to see your darkside so no more Elfy!

          5. K says:

            Pati
            Hahahahaha…you have saved Elfie from a gruesome demise.

            By acquiescing, you have provided fuel and confirmed HG’s supremacy over you and Elfie.

          6. K says:

            Pati
            Hahahaha…challenge fuel. Thanks for the laugh!

          7. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Dearest HG: If you do not not support Manchester United, then this team of the 2 Manchester teams, with the lesser record, Manchester United, is not my team, and then my team is probably Manchester City, with the better record so far this year. So just like that, in less than a minute, what will probably be my team is doing very well, Huzzah!, and must be Manchester City (and I thankfully would not have to reflect on all of those Draws). I definitely do not want to catch any feelings for the wrong team: HG, is Manchester City your team? I just want to be sure. Thank you.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Manchester City is my team.

            Your attitude towards football is what we call a glory supporter and would mean I would not want you supporting my team.

          9. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            HG. I am not a glory supporter. What an insult. If Manchester U. were your team, I would have willingly supported it, even with all of those Draws. But, I am not a glory supporter. Proof of this is that I am a Mets Fan in baseball in, while the glory supporters are Yankees Fan. But, yes, a winning record is better than a losing record, so if Manchester City is winning at this point, plus they are your team, thus my team, then yes. I am Glad. Huzzah!

          10. HG Tudor says:

            You chose the team with the better record, that is the very definition of a glory supporter!

          11. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Dearest HG; I see now. You thought I was choosing a team because of its win loss draw record, just because I discussed that aspect. There is nothing wrong with me looking at how a team is doing. That does not make me an accursed Glory Supporter. But, I was not choosing a team because of that. I said earlier that I wanted what to me would be an international team, and K said Manchester was your team. I just erred on which of the 2 teams was yours. Now I know it is Manchester City, because that fact is clarified to me, now. I thought from Violetta that Manchester U was your team. So then it was my team. Then I saw that it seemed that Manchester C. was your team. So it became my team. I did not choose this team because of its record, at all. Or for any feeling of `glory.` I chose it because of you. But, winning will never be an insult to me,. If any team of mine were to win a game, or have a winning season.

          12. Dearest HG: When I first discussed the 2 Manchester Teams based on K reporting that Manchester was your team, I mistakenly thought that Manchester United was your team, and I discussed what appears to me to their current record of: Manchester United: 5 wins 6 draws 4 losses. I wondered about all the draws and I thought that they may need more deception in their technique: I only thought about this so much, because I thought this was your team and consequently my team. Then I found out that Manchester City is your team and therefore my team, with what appears to me to have a record thus far of: 10 wins 2 draws 3 losses. A very good record. So, there is no glory fandom involved on my side, just for noticing this very good record. Rather, I am making observations of these 2 teams. Being glad that ones team, in this case my new team of Manchester City, is having a good season is NOT being a glory fan. It is just being glad that my team is doing well, versus doing poorly or mediocre. Huzzah! I am not a Glory Fan. The `Glory `of either of these 2 teams, from my standpoint, and the reason for my choice, is that you chose the team, and in this case that glory goes to my new team of: Manchester City.

        5. Violetta says:

          Princess:

          Leeds, but they usually suck.

          Reasons for my support and their suckage in an earlier post.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            And they are dirty.

          2. Violetta says:

            HG, please take “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now” off “repeat.”

            I promise that–

            Do it to Julia! DO IT TO JULIA!!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            What?

          4. Violetta says:

            HG:

            Dirty players, or dirty=unhygienic?

            Yeah, I know I’ve set myself up for the blanket answer “Yes.”

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Wrong.

            Dirty players.

          6. Violetta: Thank you. Leeds of London sounds familiar to me.

          7. Violetta says:

            That’s Lloyd’s of London, Princess. Leeds is in West Yorkshire, home of the Brontes. Emily mocks Southron accents in Wuthering Heights.

          8. Violetta. Yes, Lloyds of London. That is probably what I am thinking of. Probably, rarely, Leeds is mistakenly placed to be of London also over here, then: Such as in this case here with the popular online shopping site Etsy that has 91 items for sale under the category of Leeds of London: Popular items for leeds of london
            (91 Results)

          9. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Violetta: I find your spelling of the classic drawl, in U.S. southern accents, the best I ever saw. I noticed when you gave an example of a female, not Scarlett, in your hypothetical script, a week or so ago. If someone wanted to try out and speak a classic southern drawl, according to your spelling style, they would nail it. lol. I know, and I used to have a medium southern drawl, the bad kind, but my parents hired a speech coach to tame it. They did not have one, because they were not from the South, but I picked it up. The way some writers spell, to create the classic southern drawl, makes me cringe.

          10. Violetta says:

            Leeds United can’t help it, HG. They all have CTE from having their heads Cracked Together Like Coconuts when they grew up.

            I could deal with the Titanic Theme being piped into the dungeon, but “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now” was my Room 101.
            2+2=5, we have always been at War with Eastasia, and the Ministry of Plenty has raised the Choco ration from 25g to 20g.

            Folks, don’t give the Tude ‘tude. He don’t mess around.

          11. Violetta says:

            Princess: I learned that from Florence King. She had a real gift for capturing the voices. She grew up in Virginia and was used to her Granny’s Tidewater accent, but when she went to grad school in Mississippi, the gushing of all the wannabe Campus Cuties in the throes of what King called “the Pert Plague” drove her up a wall.

      3. Violetta says:

        Hmmph! That’s it for my long-distance Stan Sugar Harem Addicted Brainwashed Cult Crush. I like scruffy, moody men with longish dark hair and 3-day stubble.

        Off to stalk somebody else now.

        Don’t tell Pamela.

        1. K says:

          Violetta
          Hahaha…oh, Pamela may be reading this and she will know all about it!

          “The Police: Every Breath You Take

          That was one of your favourite songs wasn’t it?

          Until I told you what the lyrics really meant.”

          https://narcsite.com/2016/11/01/all-alone/

          1. Violetta says:

            There’s always Ron Gallo’s “Young Lady, You’re Scaring Me.” No ambiguity there!

  11. MommyPino says:

    Hi HG, I have been looking for the page: Look Who’s Come to Dinner but couldn’t find it. It always says 404 error page not found. Did it get removed?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello MP, no, it has returned. To save me time, I changed its publication times which means it disappears into the ether for a short time and then comes back at the scheduled time, intact with comments from before. (This is faster for me than copying and pasting into a new article).

      1. MB says:

        I’ve noticed this happening with the articles. Thank you for explaining the phenomenon. I thought you might gaslighting us! Ha ha

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You may think that, but you would be wrong, MB.

      2. MommyPino says:

        Thank you for explaining HG!

  12. misstasia says:

    I have found myself analyzing everything and everyone I meet or know. What they say, how they say it, their behavior, reactions. Love is not all around us, narcissism is all around us. I have also found myself to be cynical these days. Is this as good as it gets now? I just don’t want to put myself out there anymore. So either way, until I find the middle I am isolating myself and thus letting the narc win. Sure I’m still functioning nobody knows how I really feel inside, I still know how to put my social face on, I am grateful for my freedom and happy with what I have, my accomplishments and what is still to come. However, when it comes to love I say ba humbug!

  13. Cyn says:

    John Denver was a narcissist? Yep, here I go….

    1. Renarde says:

      Denver always left me cold when I saw him on the telly as a nipper.

      1. Violetta says:

        I give him credit for testifying against music censorship in the ’90s. They made a movie about it in which Denver shows up looking like a Clean Livin’ tree-huggin’ ’70s relic from Central Casting. When Dee Snider (playing himself) finds to his surprise that Denver is against censorship because people misinterpreted nature-worship song “Rocky Mountain High” as a paean to drugs, Snider gasps, “You are my HERO!”

        1. Renarde says:

          V

          Well. Good! I think.

          Annie’s Song is still shit though…

          1. Violetta says:

            Renarde:

            According to Dave Barry’s Book of Bad Songs, people frequently think the lyrics are “you fill out my census.”

            Could be an improvement.

          2. AnneB says:

            Renarde, that’s really funny ;-}. Someone singing with such emotion about the census – or getting all fuzzy about the N filling out their census for them (Control, boundaries, no consent) – making myself laugh now. And this makes me recall happily singing along to “Alex the Seal” with my bro as kids or teens. You know “Alex the Seal” by the GoGos.

          3. AnneB says:

            Sorry, above comment re “You fill out my census” should have been addressed to Violetta. I misread. Good one Violetta.

  14. privatejourney60 says:

    HG, once again, grateful beyond words. The reality of emotional-psychological terrorism of devaluation, then physical abuse exists behind closed doors. The realities are disturbing to one’s senses in contrast to ‘familial and religious’ indoctrinations, enabling of (worldwide) misogynistic community, infrastructure of justice system and medical systems that monetizes the broken spirit of women.

    1. Renarde says:

      private journey

      In so much agreement.

    2. lisk says:

      privatejourney60,

      I’d say there’s quite a misandrist community out there, too. And plenty of female narcs who are abusing and damaging boys-to-men, along with girls-to-women, as well.

      Always keep in mind: Narcissism is an equal-opportunity destroyer.

      1. Getting There says:

        Lisk,

        There were a few girls when I was growing up whose bullying ways were just cruel. After reading your comment, I wonder if they grew up and became kind as they grew out of childhood or did they grow up continuing to not care if they hurt another.

        I was just listening to “Greensleeves.” I didn’t think about it before but I wonder about the author and the one he loved. Was one of them a narcissist? If so, which one?

        1. Violetta says:

          It’s rumored Henry VIII wrote it, in which case, he’s the narc. It may be much older than that, though. It wasn’t attributed to him with the same certainty that “Pastime with Good Company” has been.

          1. Getting There says:

            I had read that as well and that some say it originated in Italy prior to Henry VIII. If listening to the song, it sounds like the lady could be narcissistic. I did a search though and found a longer version. The lyrics of the longer version could lend to a Golden Period of the author. I will go back to listening to it thinking of the sadness and hope he is feeling.

          2. Violetta says:

            There are some sources arguing that having “green sleeves” may signify grass stains on her clothing, i.e., she’s been rolling around in a field with someone. Probably someone else, since he doesn’t sound very happy about it

  15. Violetta says:

    Ironic that you are areligious, HG. Romeo and Juliet, with their talk of pilgrims, palmers, saints, granting for prayer’s sake, and most of all, “the god of my idolatry,” would be considered impious in the middle ages and Renaissance.

    Chaucer’s Troilus and Criseyde, which Shakespeare undoubtedly read, finishes its story of love, betrayal, and heartbreak with a call to the reader to forget pagan gods of love, Cupid, Venus, Eros, and seek the Christian God of love. One was never to put the creation before the Creator

    Both you and the theologians had severe doubts about romantic love.

    Skepticism makes strange bedfellows.

  16. Pati says:

    I think i will watch the Wizard of Oz with my daughter tonight. There are no love scenes in that movie. Just love between friends following the yellow brick road.

    1. MB says:

      Yes Pati, but it was just a dream too, like the Golden Period!

      1. Pati says:

        Yes it was all just a fantasy MB!

  17. Claudia says:

    “Giving you the last Rolo.” LOLOLOL

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That’s a good one.

    2. MB says:

      If it was the last Dorito, it would be everlasting love 🥰

    3. That was my first present from my narc ex. Sterling silver one. Currently for sale on eBay.

      1. lisk says:

        Sterling silver Rolo?

  18. Pati says:

    We are to blame for believing all these things.
    How did we know it was all false? because we were being conned. What is love anyway? I thought it exsisted but it really is a fairytale and should be kept at the movie theatre. I would rather be alone than go through this again. Thanks HG for this article it goes to show you this is all fake.

    1. E. B. says:

      Pati,
      Some of those things mentioned in the article do exist (I am not speaking about the films) as long as your partner isn’t highly narcissistic or a narcissist.

      1. Pati says:

        Hi E.B.
        The problem is my husband is a Narcissist and it does change everything that I believed in. HG is correct when looking back most of my Exes were Narcissist. My boyfriend in college was he would break up with me and then Hoover me all the time, until I married one We are addicted to them. Addicted to Narcs = Addicted to love
        Hugs xoxo

      2. Cloudy says:

        E B

        I agree it exists

  19. Violetta says:

    What about Beatrice and Benedick? Calvin and Susie Derkins? Vinnie and Lisa? What about CS Lewis’ Aravis and Cor, who “were so used to quarreling and making it up again that they got married so as to go on doing it more conveniently”?

    Why can’t I have someone for fighting o’ days and foining o’ nights? (And it’s no use telling me to patch up mine old body for heaven. I want to go to heaven–but not yet.)

    1. Renarde says:

      I love the Aravis and Cor quote. Almost Wildean.

  20. cogra002 says:

    Great point. Maybe I should watch fewer Hallmark movies?! That’s my perfect world, with the best clarinet playing. My perfect world would be just like that, except I’d be the clarinetist in the background, also.
    I’m well aware of all the social brainwashing you talk about. Great point. It’s in film, music, fashion, food, poetry, novels…. It’s unrealistic from my current experience, but I don’t see anything actually wrong with it if u find a likeminded person. Wonder if that ever happens, or is the Narc pretending to be that as close as we’ll ever get. 🤔

    1. Pati says:

      Cogra002, if there are 2 Empaths watching romantic movies then its all good. Watching them with the Narcissist no! We see the world differently.

  21. Angie says:

    Love is evident every where and always will be as ordained by God

    1. Renarde says:

      Loved the first part. Hated the second. I get tetchy about ‘ordained’. Way too close to ‘control’ in my book.

  22. NotMe! says:

    Hmmm, I get your point, but while I’ll admit I’m a love devotee, when N announced that he loved me and yes, always had, I didn’t bite to start for quite some time Even soppy empaths have different ideas of what love is, we’re not all Disney type love devotees who need hearts and flowers forever you know?
    I told him that what I really wanted in my life was someone I could say anything to and be myself with (pardon the grammar). Then hey presto, he provided my wish, for a while at least.
    I’m starting to believe that I was a royal pain in his ass as I didn’t roll over for what is probably the usual strategy. This comforts me quite a bit.

  23. Chihuahuamum says:

    This is why i no longer read romance novels or super sappy happily ever after movies bc it does set you up for unrealistic expectations in life. Then you expect others to live up to those expectations. Ive also quit comparing my life to others. I used to feel so sad comparing other mother daughter relationships to mine. I felt i was owed a close relationship with my mother but as i matured psychologicaly i realise thats an unrealistic expectation.
    Same with my marriage. I needed to realise i made a choice staying with someone who was different from me intimately instead of expecting him to be someone hes not nor will be.
    Movies, romance novels get your head in the clouds! Its freeing to have a clear mind and accept this is a bunch of nonesense and not the case in most situations!

    1. C-Mum: I think social media and all, is some sort of romance novel as well. Ever since I have been on my GOSO and have not even peeped at my Facebook Page in about 6 months or so, I am feeling mentally and emotionally stronger. On here at Narcsite, although it is social media, posters` postings seem to me to be more realistic, and thus I can relate to everyone on here, whether they are at a low point or at a medium point or at a high point, in their postings: No one person on here is simultaneously hitting the lotto, and flying on a private jet, and having eyelash extensions (while her surrogate gives birth to her twins in a private location), while the chef that she has always wanted, has moved into her mansion to report for duty, in time for her to have a light afternoon snack, before she attends the annual Ball, ALL on the same day.

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi princesssuperempath….so true social media is a big lie in many respects and sometimes not intentional but moreso people post the good and not as much the bad in their lives. A good example were shannan and chris watts many thought thru social media they had the ideal life but i do think that image was intentional bc we see thru shannans conversations with friends it was not at all what was portrayed on social media.
        Ive learned not to go by face value especially on social media.
        Another example…a couple i was friends with were always doting on each other in public and overly affectionate to the point of it being awkward. Theyd be french kissing in front of myself and others. A year later it was revealed he was physically and emotionally abusive and they had divorced. I suspect he was a lesser and i know she was a midranger!
        I try not to compare and just be happy for others blessings. I find im much happier when i do opposed to being jealous or envious. Everyone has their own journey. Gratitude daily for what i do have! Id much rather reality than get carried away by supposed fantasies of perfect lives.

    2. Taryn says:

      You are so right. It’s the same thing with me, including the Mother/daughter dynamic. You’ve illustrated a very important fact, that what we fill our heads with and allow ourselves to be exposed to affects our outlook on life and colors our expectations of everything in our lives. Therefore we should be extremely judicious of what we allow to influence us, be it certain people, song lyrics, books, and most especially our own unrealistic and maladaptive thought processes. Cognitive behavioral therapy is a huge help in that regard, at least it has been for me. I learned about CBT techniques from a book and the techniques have been very helpful in most areas of my life.

      Anyway, I just wanted to emphasize just how right you are. What others have done to us may be terrible, but we have to be mindful of our expectations and how we process our experiences. We have to pay attention to the facts, the evidence, rather than our feelings. Thanks for the reminder and I hope you have a great day (or night, depending on where you are) 🌷

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi taryn
        Cbt is a wonderful tool. Ive read a couple books but need to reread. Its really helped my life by accepting what IS instead of fighting what i feel it should be. Also realising i can create my own happiness despite certain areas of my life not being what i wanted them to be. I try to practice gratitude daily and this has increased my feeling of being content and happy.
        There will always be that part of me thats a little girl who wanted a mother she could depend on to nurture her and be her friend and confidant. Thats left a void in my life but im choosing to fill it with self love and things that make me feel whole again. I wish i could reach out and hug every person who has that child within them that feels that void and is searching for it in the wrong places or dwelling on the sadness of it. I hope they can climb out and see theres other roads that can be taken in life and rebuilding a new life is possible and staying stuck in that void isnt necessary.

    3. MommyPino says:

      C-mum, The romantic movies made me think that maybe my normal husband lacked passion and our marriage is boring. Now I know that he may not be passionate like a Romeo but he has always been there for me literally and figuratively and he’s always trying to make my life better, happier and easier. Even though he never tells me any flowery words and his flowers always come from the grocery store, he is my always dependable and always reliable man who loves me in his own reliable and dependable way. 🥰

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi mommypino….your hubby sounds like hes very attentive and that is a wonderful quality 🙂

        1. MommyPino says:

          Thank you C-mum. He is absolutely wonderful.

      2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        MommPino: Wow. I just saw the Lyrics on that Eggman and Walrus song that you posted I can not believe it. Remind me to never do drugs. I will just say, NO. I think lyrics like that should be shown to young teens to show a mind on drugs. I never saw lyrics like that. I heard the song before, but I guess I did not focus on the lyrics.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I do not think that a song which managed to be number one and number two simultaneously on the British charts stands as a good example of a reason not to do drugs.

          You will find far clearer examples, such as videos of people who have taken spice.

          1. Dearest HG. The fear of myself doing drugs has already set in for me even greater with the lyrics of what you know to be a popular, top selling, and well-favored song: the eggman and walrus song. Now, if the videos of people using spice that you are bringing up are an even better example of the bad that can happen to people`s mind when taking drugs, then my fear is even more heightened about drug usage. I am very afraid. I am a great fan of the human mind, and I do not want people to so easily trust putting drugs into their body, since their mind lives there, but, of course, people have free choice to do so, as I know, of course.

          2. Getting There says:

            PSE, I like your rationale on why you don’t use drugs!
            I have known many who have used drugs, or still do, and understand their reasons for it.

            I was once prescribed medicine for a medical issue. When I took it I felt weird and zany, and the world seemed a lot out of control. I told the doctor never again as I never wanted to feel that way. I have been drunk and the world has spun, but that is different than what I felt with that medicine.

            Have you watched the animated “Alice in Wonderland” from many years ago? I liked it as a child but saw it recently as an adult. It reminded me of one of my many reasons why I could not do drugs.

          3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Getting There: I did not know that Alice in Wonderland was animated. I would love to watch it. I never read the famous book. So, I think it is about time. Once, I had a somewhat bad injury, and the doctor gave me pain killers and then a: True Strange Story: Next, I was walking on the literal highway in the middle of the night, trying to get back to the hospital, for some odd reason. I was in a surreal state, it seems. The doctor was embarrassed and he took me off of the painkillers. I was around 18 years old. I think I was both sleepwalking and on my way probably to becoming addicted, I would guess now, looking back on it all, and seeing all the oxycontin and such addicts that became addicted via medical pain treatment. He immediately took me off the painkiller and he also apologized to me. I forgot about that experience until now. Weird stuff.

          4. Getting There says:

            That is scary, PSE! I’m glad you are safe and the doctor stopped that prescription!

            Doctors have such responsibility when it comes to medicine. They can’t control addictions but they can monitor when someone is taking the medicine. I am thankful that I found a doctor who will only prescribe if absolutely necessary and there is no other option.

            I know families who have been torn apart due to drugs. It is very sad! There was a post recently on an Instagram account I follow. The adult child had been doing drugs. During one of his times it caused him to black out and do violent things, which he doesn’t remember. Although his parents love him, they got a restraining order against him after that episode. He has been clean now for some time and they invited him to Thanksgiving this year.

            The animated movie came out in the 50s.

        2. Violetta says:

          Princess: I’ve known more weed users than acid-heads, but for real scary, nothing so far beats Bath Salts or Meth. The first two are most likely to sit there for hours, harmless to their neighbors except for the constant Floyd. The last two kill their kids and eat you.

          1. MommyPino says:

            Violetta I have seen scary videos of someone under the influence of Bath Salts trying to eat a homeless person alive.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Try a city centre every Friday and Saturday night. Alcohol.

        3. Liza says:

          when i was in high school i went to the doctor for an issue, and at some point my mother told her that my insomnia is worsening, the doctor decided to give me sleeping pills, but the dumb me was so traumatised with the adds and all the fuss about drugs, that i was thinking ” i know you are trying to make me a zambi, don’t bother pretending you want to help ” i didn’t take the pills.

        4. MommyPino says:

          PSE I agree!! Drugs is something that I have never tried because I just don’t see the point of doing it. And this song indeed shows how crazy drugs can make someone. It is hard to read that lyrics. This song also shows Lennon’s entitlement and grandiosity by selling crap to people. He was interviewed about it and he said that the song didn’t have any meaning. “The words didn’t mean a lot. People draw so many conclusions, and it’s ridiculous. I’ve had tongue in cheek all along–all of them had tongue in cheek. Just because other people see depths of whatever in it…What does it really mean, ‘I am the Eggman?’ It could have been ‘The pudding Basin’ for all I care. It’s not that serious.” It also shows how ridiculously stupid people can be buying something like that just because it was made by someone that they believe is a musical genius. While I agree that he has written some amazing songs, I don’t believe that everything that came out of him was a masterpiece. I remember watching an old movie about the manic worshipping of the Beatles where fans are actually willing to pay for strands of hair from the Beatles singers.

      3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        MommyPino: I have heard that some people trip on drugs and never come out of it. And have to be institutionalized. Permanent eggmen and walruses. So very scary. Those lyrics you posted frightened me away from drugs more than any, `Don`t do drugs,` commercial. I would advise people that do drugs to sort of back off of them, if possible, and quickly, before some sort of breach or damage takes hold. Before, one day one could be okay, and the next day one could be a permanent eggman or walrus. Boom. Just like that.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You have heard incorrectly.

        2. MommyPino says:

          Hi PSE, what permanently frightened me from ever doing drugs was an incident in my grandmother’s province where a drug addict hacked his parents and siblings while he was under the influence. He said that they thought that they were banana trees. In my province banana trees are everywhere and they hack the trunk to get the fruits. They just grow back after several months. I was probably in third grade at that time and I just thought whatever it is that can make a person do something like that, I don’t ever want it in my body.

  24. Violetta says:

    Then what DO we want? Or what SHOULD we want?

    And what if we don’t want it? If I’m not “in love,” I not only don’t want to share a bed with a man, I don’t want to see him across a breakfast table.

    I know the intensity fades with time, but I still think the iambic pentameter would have informed Romeo and Juliet’s lives if they’d gone on to argue about house payments and soccer practice in Mantua.

    Besides, HG, this is your worldview, in which Love is an illusion. Narcs may take advantage of Lurve, but what if I met a non-narc who had similar concepts to mine?

  25. Getting There says:

    Annie’s Song was written in 10 minutes on a ski lift after a fight with his wife. Those were his feelings, how is that unrealistic if his feelings are real?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is the control of the narrative which is misleading.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      He didn’t know to write:
      You fill me with fuel…
      In place of:
      You fill up my senses

      1. cogra002 says:

        😂👍

        1. Pati says:

          Mine would say come on baby light my fire.

      2. Getting There says:

        HG and NA, thank you for trying to help me understand! I’m missing the boat, though. I cannot see John Denver as a narcissist. Was he one?

        Yes the song is one of my favorite and very romantic, so maybe my thoughts are skewed. The descriptions of what he compares to her filling up his senses are different types of nature settings that are calm and peaceful. They aren’t descriptions usually used of nature and power such as “you fill up my senses like a hurricane off the east coast.” They aren’t even scenes that depict excitement like “you fill up my senses like a large surfing wave.” His later verse where he says “let me love you… let me give my life to you…” are controlling but not in a way of “let me let you give your life to me.” He wants to give of himself and only asks that she love him. Isn’t that selfless?

        1. lisk says:

          Getting There,

          The last four words of Annie’s song are “come love me again.” Somewhere in the middle of it, Denver also sings, “come fill me again!”

          He doesn’t really even ask. Not even a “please!”

          1. Getting There says:

            Hello, Lisk.

            That is a good point. I have read the great insights I have been given and listened to that song multiple times since. The comments have slightly changed how I hear the words. I still like the idea of the peace and calm feeling one brings to another; and I like the sharing of feelings. Maybe there is a better song that does both but doesn’t have some of those other aspects.

          2. lisk says:

            Getting There,

            My guess is that the pop song, or even the folk song, that brings peace and calm feeling is a rare thing.

            I wonder, though, why do you desire peace, calm, and sharing of feelings in a song?

          3. Getting There says:

            Hello, Lisk.

            Ever since I can remember, music has a way with me. It can impact my feelings and thoughts.
            If I am spun up or sad, music helps me through or keeps me there if I feel I need to stay in that mood for a little while. If I am happy, music helps keep that going. If I need my mind to stay focused, I listen to music.
            There are classical songs which I love because of the beauty of the notes together, and the feelings those songs connect to. Words, for songs with words, matter. I can enjoy a song that I may not enjoy the words for other reasons. I have found, though, that many times words of songs can speak my thoughts and feelings probably better than I could. I have sent songs to family or friends or those I was in a relationship which I felt can say what I was thinking or feeling, either about them or a situation,
            in a way that makes sense. This is why I think of music in terms of relationships as well. What would I like for me to feel or think of another? What would I like for them to feel or think of me?
            Peace and calm? I want it. I come from a home of parents constantly fighting; I have had two relationships where it has been fighting and roller coaster, or such excitement and butterflies that you can’t just enjoy the moment. I want peace and calm in a relationship; I want to be a part of someone’s peace and calm in that relationship; and I want them to be a part of my peace and calm in that relationship.

          4. Violetta says:

            Getting There, I agree with everything you’ve said about the effect of music and lyrics, but with the opposite goal. At points of stress, the only thing that has helped sometimes is cranking up the Ramones or the Pixies and bouncing around the room crashing into the furniture.
            The Pixies’ “Dead” was particularly effective, and I didn’t even understand the words for years because Frank Black is screaming his head off.

          5. Getting There says:

            Hello, Violetta.

            I had heard of the Ramones but had not heard any of their song and looked them up. I had to look up Pixies and their song “Dead.” That seems like a fun way to work through stress!! Do you find that you are usually calm? The reason I ask is that I was talking to someone who is one of the calmest people I know in situations that would upset others. He was telling me that he used to have anger issues as a child. His favorite music and the music that he puts on during stressful times is heavy metal. The closest I have to a screaming song for when I need one is Matchbox 20 “Back 2 Good.”

            I have wondered that if there was music during sex would I get distracted listening to the song. LOL

          6. Violetta says:

            Getting There:
            I’m not at all a calm person, but having an outlet keeps me from being even more of a basket case. One afternoon, another stressed-out grad student and I stomped around my living room to the Pixies’ “U-Mass,” shrieking sarcastically, “It’s EDUCATIONAL!”

            When I did my dissertation defense, I had warned the grad students I shared an office with that however it went, there would be Ramones. I figured “Rock and Roll High School” if I failed (“I don’t care about history, cause that’s not where I want to be”), “Sheena is a Punk Rocker” if I passed.

            Fortunately, it was “Sheena” (although my 2nd reader couldn’t resist one last chance to try to throw me, until the Rhetoric professor came to my rescue).

            One TA was conferencing with a student when I got back to the office, and when the student saw me (wearing semi-corporate attire) turning my corner of the office into my personal moshpit, the TA just told him, “She just passed a really big test.” He told me later the student seemed to accept that simple explanation without being much fazed.

          7. Getting There says:

            Congratulations on all! That took a lot of dedication and self!
            Completing the dissertation and then successfully defending it is a cause for a celebration. I could see why the student would not be surprised. LOL
            It sounds like you found a great way to release some of the built up energy inside when you need it. That’s great!

    3. Renarde says:

      Getting there

      That song is a maudlin bunch of arse.Ne er liked it. Always set my teeth on edge.

      Screams Victim.

      YOU lift up my senses…Come lift them again.

      Nothing about what he wants to do for her. Of course not! He wants her fuel, he doesnt want to give her his energy.

      Tit.

      1. Getting There says:

        Hello, Renarde.

        Thank you for sharing that! I definitely will listen again with your description in mind to help me see.

        I understand what you are saying about how he is not saying what he will do for her. He doesn’t. He is sharing what he feels. The song itself was after a fight with his spouse. I don’t know what was said in the fight but it can be a response to the comments his wife said.

        A more overarching aspect of how I hear this song is a willingness to share feelings of oneself and not expect mind reading. This song is a moment in time, not the entirety of a relationship. I want a relationship where my significant other trusts me with sharing his feelings; it is as important as my ability to share mine. I’m a talker; and I need to know that I am not just in this relationship and the person is getting nothing out of it while I get everything.
        Another consideration is that what is romantic and speaks to one may not work for another. I have experienced where men seem to think that flowers and jewelry are the answer to showing their love. Not for this girl on either. The song “That’s What I Like” by Bruno Mars annoys me. He’s listing what he is willing to do for her. Lucky her, he likes it too. It doesn’t say “yeah, this guy has an actual connection.”

        Thank you for being willing to help me understand!

        1. Renarde says:

          Getting There

          My pleasure! And this has now has all the makings of a great sub thread.

          Forgive me, I have no wish to trample on what others love. I’m simply saying I dont like it.

          You’ve made me think a lot today about why I like some music and not others.

          Going back to Denver.

          That phrase I quoted is in two parts. This is just my take.

          You fill up my senses

          Yup. Ok by me. You are expressing how someone makes you feel.

          Come fill me again

          Yeah, THIS is problematic. It’s a call to action to her. Nothing about how hes sorry, or what he will do etcs…

          Looking at another love song, Lennons Jealous Guy. The first time I heard this I was astounded. The melody is simple but yet developed. The words are sublime.

          He says that he was jealous. He was sorry he made her cry. Now to my mind, Lennon is a difficult character. Ive no idea if hes a narc. He certainly scores high on traits. Lennon was a genious. Denver, not so much.

          Denver’s song is hawkish but Lennon is Lennon. Believe me, I don’t like the love song genre in any form.

          To my mind, all great art encapsulates emotion, complex emotion but put in a simple way. That’s the essence of Jealous Guy. Imagine is another one.

          Queens Love of my Life is another one and let’s not forget the narcsite perennial favourite, The Power of Love.

          Others that spring to mind are Billie Halliday, Nina Simone and Amy Winehouse.

          Performers I loathe.

          Chris Rea – God. You punish us!!!
          Neil Diamond – Why? Why?
          Phil Collins – Jesus Christ.
          Dire Straits – The clue is in the name…

          Borng. Middle of the road. Unoffensive. Lift music.

          And thus I end the case for The Prosecution.

      2. Violetta says:

        Would you prefer Positive K’s “I Got a Man”?
        *****
        I want to turn you on and excite you
        Let me know the spot on your body and I bite you
        So when your man don’t treat you like he used to
        I kick in like a turbo booster
        ….
        You know what’s the problem, ya not used to learnin’
        I’m big daddy longstroke, and your man’s pee wee herman

        1. Renarde says:

          Violetta

          Eep! That’s…challenging.

          I will take that and raise you this…

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NOiUlFdwVkg

          1. Violetta says:

            Not a patch on Salt-n-Pepa’s “Push it REAL good!”

          2. Renarde says:

            Ha ha! Loved that song when I was a little cub!

        2. Getting There says:

          Renarde,
          I had to look up “Jealous Guy.” I’m not a John Lennon fan so I didn’t know it. I liked reading your list!
          I like “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You,” “Sway” with Michael Buble, and love “My Confession” by Josh Groban. I knew someone who thought “2 Out of 3 Ain’t Bad” was a romantic song; it wasn’t my preference of how I saw romance.

          Violetta,
          LOL I give the person credit for being confident. I prefer “Must be Doin’ Somethin’ Right” by Billy Currington.

          1. Violetta says:

            I love ’90s rap, when it’s funny and snotty. “Baby Got Back” is always great for getting people out on the dance floor.

            The current mumble-rap, however….

          2. Violetta says:

            Some of Lennon’s stuff is scary: “Run for Your Life” and “You Can’t Do That,” for example.

            He had a lot of narc qualities, but was probably not full narc. He admitted his abusive behavior towards women. He once said in an interview that he emphasized Peace because he knew he was a violent man.

            Yoko, OTOH….

          3. Getting There says:

            My friends and I used to play “Baby Got Back” a lot and “Funky Cold Medina.” Salt N Peppa’s “Shoop” is a fun song to rap with.
            I do like Eminem ‘s older stuff.

          4. Getting There says:

            Thank you for sharing that about John Lennon.

            I wonder how many song writers are empaths and how many are narcissistic or narcissists. I need to look up how a normal would see romance and which song matches their style.

            I wonder if Eminem is an empath. I used to think that his ability to share his thoughts in his songs made him open and honest. It’s like Elvis. He was very giving, so I assume empath.

          5. Violetta says:

            I’m always up for “My Name Is,” “The Real Slim Shady,” and of course “Lose Yourself,” but I find “Kim,” um, disturbing.

          6. Getting There says:

            I agree, Violetta. I also like “Mockingbird.” The song “Without Me” reminds me of a possible narcissist I once knew. I look back and think of how little I understood of his personality then but I was attracted to it.

          7. MommyPino says:

            Hi Getting There,
            I think that John Lennon was a narcissist. He was emotionally abusive to both of his sons, especially the first son. The son with Yoko Ono was his golden child that was used to triangulate with the older son but even that favored son also said that he was abused too.

            I don’t think that John Lennon was all that too. He wrote some good songs but he also wrote crappy ones.

            I do wonder if John Denver was a narcissist. I am unaware of anything about his personal life that would indicate such. He seemed like a really nice guy and I am not aware of any stories from people who knew him intimately that they were abused. I have heard that he was best friends with Clint Eastwood and I’m also very curious what Clint Eastwood is.

          8. MommyPino says:

            Hi Getting There,

            I looked up John Denver and found some disturbing details about him and his ex wife Annie. He actually tried to choke her. He also sawed their marital bed in half with a chainsaw. That sounds like fury to me and not just a normal anger. Even I wouldn’t do something like that in my worst furious or rage moments in my life. So it does sound like Denver was indeed a narcissist. I saw that info from this article:
            https://www.axs.com/john-denver-5-things-you-may-not-know-about-the-superstar-singer-and-s-53193

            Also I found more info on John Lennon. I already knew these before but I thought I would share. I really believe that he was a narcissist.

            https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/john-lennons-dark-side-domestic-6481985

            Also a lot of Lennon’s songs look like an incoherent word salad such as I am the Walrus. His Bless You song makes me feel nauseous.

            “ I am he as you are he
            As you are me and we are all together
            See how they run like pigs from a gun
            See how they fly
            I’m crying
            Sitting on a cornflake
            Waiting for the van to come
            Corporation tee-shirt
            Stupid bloody Tuesday
            Man, you been a naughty boy
            You let your face grow long
            I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
            I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob
            Mister City Policeman sitting
            Pretty little policemen in a row
            See how they fly like Lucy in the Sky
            See how they run
            I’m crying
            Crying
            I’m crying
            Crying
            Yellow matter custard
            Dripping from a dead dog’s eye
            Crabalocker fishwife
            Pornographic priestess
            Boy, you been a naughty girl
            You let your knickers down
            I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
            I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob
            Sitting in an English garden
            Waiting for the sun
            If the sun don’t come
            You get a tan From standing in the English rain
            I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
            I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Expert textpert choking smokers
            Don’t you thing the joker laughs at you
            See how they smile like pigs in a sty
            See how they snied. I’m crying
            Semolina pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower
            Elementary penguin singing Hari Krishna
            Man, you should have seen
            Them kicking Edgar Allan Poe
            I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
            I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob
            Goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob”

          9. HG Tudor says:

            Whilst Lennon was a narcissist, the song I Am A Walrus is an amalgam of three songs which he was unable to finish and part of it was written under the influence of LSD. It is not a word salad.

          10. MommyPino says:

            Getting There,

            One of the songs that I used to really love when I was young (high school to early 20’s) is Somebody by Depeche Mode. Just like Annie’s Song, I thought Somebody describes how true love is and that song always takes me to a very deep and peaceful place. Now when I hear it, I still love the melody and the voice but the words itself has a different meaning to me now. It’s I want I want. It seems like it was written by a narcissist too.

            “ I want somebody who cares
            For me passionately
            With every thought
            With every breath
            Someone who’ll help me see things
            In a different light
            All the things I detest
            I will almost like
            I don’t want to be tied
            To anyone’s strings
            I’m carefully trying to steer clear of
            Those things”

          11. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommypino.

            I have not been fans of either John Lennon or The Beatles. I know some of their famous songs, but I don’t seek out playing any of their music. I don’t get the whole Golden Child versus Scapegoat treatments; it’s wrong.

            I almost wonder if John Denver is that elusive normal. He had his issues but seemed to care deeply about his children and different causes. He was rejected from singing “We are the World” even though he asked to be a part of it; however, there isn’t any record of him slamming the song or the cause it supported. The information came out due to the one he asked sharing it.

            Those words of that Depeche Mode song do sound like what I think a narcissist would want. Maybe that is why HG likes them as their words may connect with him. Do you have any songs now that you think describe love to you?

            It’s interesting how lyrics take a different meaning at different times in life. Ever since I was a young girl, I don’t know why but “Don’t Cry Out Loud” seemed to be my anthem on how to deal and great advice. I listen to it now and think it is fine for me but would not want my son to think these lyrics match how he should deal with things.

          12. lisk says:

            GT,

            So many of these lyrics work to reinforce the construct of romantic love, the nature of modern sexual desire/practice, etc.

            That’s kind of why I asked you earlier about why you look for peace/calm/sharing in a song.

            I used to own/listen to so much music w/lyrics when I was a teenager. I knew all the words to every song.

            Then I deliberately quit it all before I was 20. I just had enough of people singing to me how or what to feel, how or what to think.

            And then I met a Somatic narc and started listening again. Grrr…I bought into that crap once more (except for Celine Dion—no joke—can’t believe I was with someone who enjoyed her!).

            Later, with Narcx, the beginning was fantastic. We didn’t listen to music at all, not in the car or in our home. It was just us. We didn’t even watch tv or movies. (While this is how I liked it, I’m sure this was Narcx’s way of focusing all attention on himself and controlling the message.)

            I should have realized that the “relationship” was in trouble when we started putting on tunes while cooking dinner and watching movies after we ate.

            Looking back, I see that, at that point, there was only emptiness. The music and the movies were our way of trying to fill the void, to hold up a construct that we could no longer sustain ourselves—to hold “us” over until Narcx could find and install a new fuel source.

            Now it’s mostly silence again, and I am at peace. If I do listen to music, it’s mostly lyric-less or has lyrics in languages I barely understand.

          13. Violetta says:

            Mommy Pino:

            A lot of lyrics in Walrus are references to the Alice books. The title itself is from “The Walrus and the Carpenter.”

          14. Getting There says:

            Hello, Lisk.

            That’s great that you can find peace in silence! I hear often how much more you can connect internally when you remove distractions like music and TV and just let the silence surround you. I have family and friends who feel they connect more with God in the silence. I also enjoy instrumental, mostly classical, music as well as songs in languages I don’t understand.

            My ex also wanted us to share the time talking instead of listening to music or watching a lot of TV. He made comments in the Golden Period and then later when I think he wanted attention. Looking back I had more aggression on the road during those times. It sounds like you are back to a place where you are comfortable, and that’s great!

          15. MommyPino says:

            Thank you for correcting me HG. Honestly I still don’t have a full grasp on what a word salad really is. I just think that when something is incoherent it must be word salad.

          16. MommyPino says:

            Hi Getting There,

            Don’t Cry Out Loud is a beautiful song. It is very powerful and every time I hear it it feels empowering. I love songs that empower. I think that it’s a great advice indeed especially in dealing with narcissists. It resonates to me this way: Don’t cry out loud. Don’t let them see that they got you or that they affected you. Keep it inside until they cannot see you then you can finally let it out but never let them know. And then GOSO.

            I can’t think of a love song that replaced Somebody. I think that with my age now and having kids I am not at the same place I was when I absolutely loved that song because my view on love has changed so much. But Bruno Mars’ Just the Way You Are holds a special place in my heart because that’s what my husband chose for me as a song to be played while I was walking down the aisle on our wedding day and I saw him tear up while having the biggest smile watching me walk with that song playing. Recently my husband keeps playing for me Stu Larsen’s song I Will be Happy and Hopefully You Will Be Too and I love it and think it’s really how we are.

            Different songs resonate with me at different times. I remember I was feeling depressed or maybe I had some PTSD from an event that happened with my mom in my last year in college and I was in a retreat in a monastery (I was in a Catholic school) and the lay minister played Cat Stevens’ song Morning Has Broken and I just bawled and I couldn’t stop crying. It was so cathartic. Especially it was towards the end of the retreat after we have had discussions and reflections about life and right before he played that song he asked us to close our eyes and empty our minds and surrender all of our fears and sorrows to God and just empty our minds of those fears and worries as best as we could and in that silence all of a sudden while our eyes were closed we started hearing the song. It was a very spiritual experience.

          17. Getting There says:

            Monmypino,

            I don’t receive notifications of comments, so I was just looking at this and saw your comment. I’m sorry.

            That Cat Stevens song is amazing! Some spiritual songs really can be cathartic. I’m sorry that you experienced such pain in your life by your mom. Another song of Cat Stevens that I have learned to like is “Cat’s in the Cradle.”

            I don’t think I know those romantic songs. I tend to change the song if Bruno Mars comes up as I haven’t liked his songs that I have heard through. I will have to look up the ones you mentioned later. Thank you.

          18. MommyPino says:

            No worries Getting There, I don’t always receive notifications on mine too. Sometimes I forget to subscribe after I comment.

            I also like that song. I believe it’s a Harry Chapin song. It has a very sad meaning but a good reminder to all parents. Another Cat Stevens song that I like is Father and Son. I absolutely love the part when his voice has a little crack, “ how can I try to explain..” it’s just so perfectly delivered by him. I didn’t have my dad around growing up but whenever I heard that song I try to imagine my dad saying that to me.

            Another song that has always made me feel emotional when I was in my high school / college and sometimes even made me cry is Vincent (Starry Starry Night) by Don McLean. I have always had a fascination with Vincent Van Gogh and his struggle with his mental health. I love his paintings and the innocence that I can see in them.

          19. MommyPino says:

            Hi Getting There, you were right, Cat Stevens did sing Cat’s in the Cradle and it’s his version of the song that I actually have listened to and not Harry Chapin’s.

          20. MommyPino says:

            Hi Getting There,

            I’m wrong again, apparently it really was Harry Chapin who sang Cat’s in the Cradle and Cat Stevens didn’t cover the song at all.

          21. Getting There says:

            Hello, Mommpino!
            I thought that was Cat Stevens but you are correct! It’s great to learn new things, so thank you!
            I like the Father and Son song as well! I’m sorry your dad wasn’t around when you were young and when you needed him.

            I was listening to Leonard Cohen today. I love his work. I found it interesting how the discussion with “Annie’s Song” led to me analyzing one of my favorite songs of Cohen’s, “Dance Me To The End of Love.” It is such a beautiful song but I did analyze it. Sadly the writing of the song was inspired by the Holocaust, if I remember correctly. The words are amazing, though, and still one I find romantic in a way.

          22. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There, I have never heard of Leonard Cohen before and his song. I listened to it online and it is really interesting. He has a very unique voice. I usually like rock songs and some pop and folk songs too that almost sounds like rock. I also like some Beatles songs but I wouldn’t say that they never produced some crappy songs. Whenever I hear Desperado by Eagles always makes me think of my mom for some reason. I also like the song American Pie but I don’t understand what it means. My husband said that if I grew up her I would understand what that song means. I also like Landslide by Fleetwood Mac just because of her voice. Whenever I’m in a fight against somebody my theme song is Bad by Michael Jackson 😂.

            I also got confused about who sang Cat’s in the Cradle. At first I remembered that it was Harry Chapin because I bought that song from iTunes before for my iPod. But I haven’t listened to my iPod for years and so I looked it up in YouTube and I saw a video that says it was Cat Stevens so I thought that maybe he sang it too but when I listened to it is sounded just like the one that I listened to so I thought that I was wrong. But then I looked it up and apparently the Youtube video is wrong because it is Harry Chapin’s voice. This is one of the instances when we cannot trust the internet lol.

          23. Getting There says:

            Mommypino,

            I looked up the two songs you had mentioned before. I had heard that Bruno Mars one, sorry! I didn’t recognize the title. The video was fun to watch though. The other one was very romantic! It’s cute that your husband is playing that for you!

            “Desperado” is such a heart breaking song. It’s interesting how much song can connect us to feelings within.
            “American Pie” came out before I was born. It is based on the plane crash that killed multiple rock and roll artists. I don’t understand the words much either even with knowing that. LOL

            Leonard Cohen wrote “Halleluia.” I think that song, whichever lyrics included, is an amazing song that captures so many feelings.

            Can you stay upset with “Bad?” I am bopping my head just thinking of the song.

            I usually like songs others tell me are too sad. I loved “Jar of Hearts” when it came out. It’s taken a different view since finding this site. So much has taken a different view.

          24. MommyPino says:

            Hi Getting There, I was unfamiliar with Leonard Cohen’s version of Hallelujah. I just knew the Jeff Buckley one and I really like that song too. I listened to Leonard Cohen’s rendition and he has an amazing voice but I’m more used to Jeff Buckley’s.

            I was kidding with the Bad. I don’t have a music playing in my head while I’m upset. I would like to think that I’m that cool but we all know that I’m not lol.

            Yes I agree with you. Jar of Hearts totally look like it was written by someone who went GOSO from a narcissist. It’s a perfect song describing what narcissists do. And it’s a very beautiful song. Another song that took on a different view in my mind after Narcsite is Maggie May by Rod Stewart. It’s an upbeat song but it sounds like Maggie May is a narcissist. Also, since Narcsite, the song ‘I’m Not In Love’ by 10cc always makes me think of HG. I really like that song too.

          25. Getting There says:

            Hi, Mommypino.
            I hope you don’t mind a few off the topic things.

            I saw one of your comments on another thread. I have to admit I am not following the thread so there may be a lot I am missing. I just wanted to let you know that I was such a fan of Dr Carson becoming president. His book was amazing and I do think he is an empath as well!

            Today I thought of “Cat’s in The Cradle.” I took my son to daycare and then I went to work. I wish I could say that I had no choice. That song popped in my head. It really is a good reminder to parents that time with our kids is short.

            Your picture of your dog is so cute!

            LOL on the “Bad” song. I’m sorry I missed that joke.

            I looked up the songs you mentioned and agree that “I’m not in love” sounds like it comes from this blog. I read comments on a video on an Instagram account I follow. It was discussing why men don’t respect and if they ever will. Some of the comments make me wonder if this song is an anthem somewhere.
            “Maggie May” makes me wonder about that line of what we don’t know. I can guarantee that my ex-husband can write about the pain I caused him. I did cause him pain but what will be left out of his story is the full extent of his role. I don’t need or want him to get into that, but I am learning more that I can never fully trust what I am told on what was done by either.

            Jeff Buckley had a great version as does KD Lang and Tori Kelly.

            If I had heard the “Hamilton” music before finding HG, I would have felt sad for all that he went through and how it seemed he tried hard. Now I hear it and think whether he is narcissistic or a narcissist.

            I had to shake my head at myself today. I used to love the song “Someone to Watch Over Me” thinking it was romantic. I heard it today, understood the time it came out, but thought that that was not something I wanted for romance. I can watch over me.

          26. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There,

            Cat’s in a Cradle is such a beautiful song. I saw a YouTube video about it and it was from a poem that was written by his wife. He made it into a song after their son was born. I think that loving parents experience guilt and it is a good thing because it shows that we truly want the best for our kids. I believe that it isn’t really the amount of time spent with them but the quality of each time that we spend with them that makes an impact on them. I never saw my dad since I was three and not until I was 26 but home made such an impact on me through his words in his letters. My mom has also made so much impact on me and was almost always on my side until I was 26 and I honestly have always wished that I had more time with just myself or with friends or other people where she wasn’t around and enabled me to have more chance to develop socially by myself. Our kids learn a lot when we are not around but the most important thing is that they always know that when they are back home to us they are always safe and loved unconditionally more than any place in the world. But I totally agree that our time with them is short. This is our chance to spend as much time and create as much memories with them. When they turn 18 it will be their equal prerogative to spend time with us. Right now they can’t run from us lol.

            I agree with Ben Carson. I’m happy to know that we both like him. I have also read his book, I think the title is Gifted Hands. I am so amazed at what he has accomplished given the fact that he came from a very difficult childhood. He also struggled with temper and he was able to overcome that the extreme guilt that he felt (which is why he isn’t a narcissist because he experiences guilt) which caused him to find ways to control his temper, seek God and change the direction of his life by choosing better friends and being more responsible in school. I was very excited when he was leading the polls at one time during the primaries but his standing started to go down when he lost in those states where Ted Cruz cheated him. He was never elected in any office and I wonder if the election process is really hard for Empaths and much more advantageous for Narcissists.

            Don’t worry about missing my joke, most people miss my jokes lol. I’m used to explaining them. 😜

            I have always thought that Someone to Watch Over Me is such a beautiful song but I have never paid attention to the lyrics. Now reading it, I agree with you. It’s actually a very sad situation for anyone to be in. To long for someone who may not even be thinking about us. Just like that song Brandy. I will only put my heart out for the people who choose to be present in my life and I will try my best to be present and show up as much as I can in their lives too.

            That is a really good point about Maggie May and how a lot of times in the narcissist’s point of view, they are the victim and sometimes we just hear their version of the story.

            I don’t know if I will be able to visit here on Christmas but I just want to greet you a Merry Christmas now to be sure. I hope that your Christmas with your son is so full of joy and abundant blessings and love. ❤️🎄🎁

          27. Getting There says:

            Hi, Mommypino!

            I really want to respond to your comment but I didn’t want to miss a chance to say Merry Christmas to you. Merry Christmas!!! Thank you for the Christmas wishes! I hope you and your family have a beautiful time together with love and joy as well!! I am blessed that we still communicate here!

            I will respond soon to the rest.
            I’m sorry. I think the NORAD Santa Tracker is going to be the predominant site for this phone today.

          28. MommyPino says:

            Thank you for the greetings and I haven’t checked out the Santa tracker but that sounds like a great idea to do with my kids too! No worries about the response, I totally understand. I want to respond to a lot of your thoughts too including Kim Kardashian as I have had the same thought about her for a while but I just got too busy with the holidays. Have the merriest Christmas!!!😘❤️❤️❤️

          29. Getting There says:

            Merry Christmas, Mommypino!!

            The tracker was a lot of fun with constant monitoring and games. When my son saw him in a country friends we have originally came from, he had me text them. We did actually call the line for fun. I don’t have a Twitter account but we were able to watch the videos they made on their Twitter. It was great that they were teaching a fact or posting a picture of different places around the world.

            Ben Carson didn’t always say things of which I agree but it is obvious he is caring and wouldn’t base his decisions on the desire to be liked or for the next vote. I wonder if he would have been able to have the parties work harder together instead of what they do now. He became the Secretary of HUD under Trump and mainly stays out of the news. There was a report that a lot of money was spent on furniture and redecorating. It is said that once he found out about it, he stopped it. I don’t see a lot of our politicians doing that. He was investigated and considered to have not done wrong. I know the group that did the investigation and they have no political preferences. I think he would have brought such good and care to the country and how he was with our allies. He had to make hard decisions as a surgeon and then in the administrative role he was in, so I had no doubt he would have been able to handle being Commander of the military. His ability to hold his anger and knows that he doesn’t know everything but is willing to learn and try are positive traits and needed for this country. I hope we get more candidates with his positive traits and then they are actually elected as president.

            I am watching my son right now and can’t believe how fast time is flying. I like how you described the balance using your parents and how they were with you. You are correct it is in the quality versus quantity. I do have an issue staying off the phone when with him. I have different excuses and none of them are good when looking back at them. I think that will be my New Year’s Resolution. I thought it would have had something to do with narcissists but I think this one is more important. Are you ready for a great 2020? This may be your narcissist free year. How does that feel? Are you excited? At peace?

            My ex- husband wouldn’t be wrong in his hurt. I did do things to hurt him. If he wrote a song from that point, I am sure it would be a song many would think “I wouldn’t want someone like her.” That was his perception and his perception is his truth, whether he knows of his narcissism or not. My perception is different. I wonder sometimes how different people see different manipulations. For example if two people on this site was romantically involved with the same narcissist, would they perceive the behaviors the same or so different that maybe there would be a view of different types of narcissism. The narcissist may learn that I am not feeding the victim mentally, so manipulations aren’t that. The next woman in his life may be great with the victim mentally, so then she recognizes the victim behavior when she comes to this site.

            The song “Bad Liar” by Imagine Dragons is a great song. The lyrics give me the impression that he isn’t a narcissist because he won’t lie to her to keep her and that he knows he can’t give her what she wants. I then wonder what it is she wants. Is it like a narcissist and wants what no one can provide or a normal person wants. What’s interesting is that I think he suffers from anxiety or some thing. I wonder how many writers have a different situation than narcissism or empathy and writes from that, but it is taken another way.

            I hope you have a great time today! We are having friends over so it should be more fun!

          30. MommyPino says:

            Thank you Getting There!! We had a great Christmas. It was laid back. We were just playing with the gifts that we got all day. We got the kids some magnetic tiles so we have been building stuff with them all day. I got my husband a vinyl player so he is finally able to play his old vinyl records. I found out today that he owns the Magical Mystery Tour album that includes I Am the Walrus song. He is a big Beatles fan. I like a lot of their songs but he likes all of them!

            The Santa tracker is absolutely cool. I really like how they give facts about the different places that Santa has been passing through. It’s a really cool way to introduce kids to the different countries and landmarks