Is It Love?

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The narcissist sweeps you away in the beginning.

The narcissist cares and supports you.

Is it love?

Whether a romantic or familial situation with the narcissist, the narcissist behaves in so many ways which cause you to believe that he or she loves you, but is it the case?

  • Does the narcissist love?
  • Can the narcissist begin by loving you and then it fades?
  • Can the narcissist learn to love you?
  • Does the narcissist have his or her own way of loving you?
  • What is love based on?
  • Why does the narcissist´s behaviour cause you to believe you are being loved?
  • If it is not love from the narcissist what is it?
  • If it is not love from the narcissist, what are you seeing when you are being seduced?
  • How can you understand whether it is love or not?

Understanding “Is It Love” will enable you to tackle emotional thinking and make sense of the behaviour of the narcissist towards you and this Logic Bulletin addresses key information to answer those questions that occupy your thoughts.Use it also as part of your Future Protection against being caught again, either by the existing narcissist or a new one.

Obtain “Is It Love?”

Sharpen your Logic Defences and recognise how infatuation manifests in the mind of the narcissist with these intriguing portrayals. Use your acquired knowledge and narc craft to ascertain who the narcissist is infatuated with and what school of narcissist is infatuated.

The Trio of Infatuation

THE TRIO OF INFATUATION

 

 

157 thoughts on “Is It Love?

  1. Sweetest Perfection says:

    A couple of years ago, on VD, my Upper Loser posted a poem on social media that I, stupid hopeless romantic, thought was dedicated to me; it was something about loving someone though they were apart but still thinking of her. Now I am sure it was dedicated to me. And to her. And her. And that other her. And maybe him too. To any appliance that could feel identified with the damned poem.

    1. Violetta says:

      Sweet P:

      There’s a wonderful scene in Merry Wives when Mistress Ford and Mistress Page compare Falstaff’s love notes and discover the same thing. Technology has only altered the method.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Yep! Exactly the same. I also think all the time of the aria in Don Giovanni,”Madamina, il catalogo è questo.” That’s my Upper Loser right there, I bet he got excited to score a nationality he didn’t have yet in his harem when he ensnared me.

  2. Claire says:

    I loved it! We are so brainwashed what love is supposed to be!
    And nobody so far has described with such an accuracy what love is actually, except HG !
    Today HG, I was listening and smiling . I was thinking about the 3 man in my life that made a significant impact what I am now, one by one :
    1. My father – what love actually is. IM
    2. My ex – what false love is , or shall I say – what a lack of real love is . The grand gestures – even I can laugh now remembering his facial expression after announcing “ See, I bought you this!” “ How many people will buy their wives this and that”?
    3. You – the online stranger who is doing marvellous job helping people and who helped me enormously to restore my inner peace.
    So the negative impact from p. 2 was washed away like the the huge waves swept away my favourite Sydney beach during the storms at the weekend.

    Thank you, HG!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome Claire.

  3. Hope says:

    I don’t understand. If narc love is infatuation and infatuation is narc ET and power, anger, and fear is essentially the entire narc emotional spectrum…what emotions make up infatuation for a narc? What does narc infatuation feel like to a narc? What really confuses me is how the mid and lessers don’t know is not love. They think it’s love. So what is love that’s false love? How does it feel and look? If narcs don’t evolve or progress along the spectrum, how could you know? You just have the same feelings as well as the insight to understand the distance between what you feel love is and what love really is?

    I see the fascination in the examples provided. Is it just admiration and fascination? Seeing a fancy object and wanting to possess it? Wanting to be associated with it? Sort of like watching the new promo for a Lamborghini, admiring it, stalking it, possessing it, and soaking in all the envy once obtained? I love my things too though. My truck. I feel love for objects at times. I wonder if..hmm. I don’t feel empathy for my truck. So I can’t love it. Hmm. Maybe I understand your love now…

    I felt intense infatuation in my prior entanglements with narcs. It felt like love mixed with obsession. It was like feeling love but also feeling dependent on or connected to the feelings of the N. For example, I always loved, but was hypersensitive to how he was feeling and if he felt distant or disconnected. I was highly reactive to any change in his behavior or attitude. It gave me anxiety and distress to see any negative changes especially when I felt powerless to influence no matter what I did. The infatuation was warm love, fascination, gratitude and a feeling of being so lucky and also possessive. Wanting to keep this lovely secret all to myself knowing that all the magnificence I acknowledged wasn’t immediately evident to others (love/narc addition goggles) but I felt could be easily discovered when offered perspective and proximity. I felt uniquely competent to love better and deeper than I believed anyone else could and therefore qualified and best suited to appreciate the N to the fullest extent possible. I also thought he’d realize how lucky he was to have someone with my capacity for love.

    1. theletterafterj says:

      Hope
      You may find these comments helpful.

      Lou says:
      August 3, 2018 at 15:25
      HG, I was wondering, when you are high in positive fuel, like when you are in the infatuation stage, aren’t you kind of happy? Isn’t that stage kind of euphoric for you and therefore there is an element of happiness in it.

      HG Tudor says:
      August 4, 2018 at 12:38
      No, but it may well look like happiness but it is not, it is power.

      Lou says:
      August 4, 2018 at 15:19
      Thanks HG. So when you are convinced the new person is the One, the fountain of eternal fuel, the end of the quest, all there is is hope and excitement but not happiness, correct?

      HG Tudor says:
      August 5, 2018 at 11:10
      There is infatuation and the power from the fuel.

      https://narcsite.com/2018/07/30/dolus-malus-prologue/

      Perfectly imperfect says:
      January 15, 2019 at 12:21
      They believe that saying they love you is true but it’s really a lie?

      HG Tudor says:
      January 15, 2019 at 13:34
      Yes because we are incapable of loving.

      https://narcsite.com/2019/01/15/bridging-the-gap-2/

    2. theletterafterj says:

      Hope
      This thread is very good.

      HG Tudor says:
      December 13, 2019 at 16:54
      No, non-narcissists do not engage in infatuation.

      https://narcsite.com/2019/12/11/infatuation-11/

      1. Lorelei says:

        I know HG stated in this post that non-narcissists don’t engage in infatuation, but I feel that I have absolutely. Or was it a draw to a narcissist that I interpreted as infatuation? (like was it deeper than “infatuation”–that empath/narc thing..) I can remember several people I was really drawn to, two men that I was never romantically linked to but I am curious if it was a narcissist-oriented dynamic. One was absolutely a narcissist–the other who knows but quite likely based on some things I am aware of.

        1. K says:

          Lorelei
          I will sum it up nicely for you: You are an addict, like me, and it’s your addiction to the narcissist aided and abetted by ET.

          1. Lorelei says:

            I wonder what HG’s opinion is on just a really strong lure to someone such as the prior almost infatuation inexperienced.. It’s been a really long time. I was not under Botox treatment at the time. I’ve matured away from this perhaps—but it was really unusual. I didn’t do anything weird—it was more a feeling of interest, spending time with etc. I certainly didn’t change behaviors or anything—just found these two people more interesting than would seem normal.

          2. K says:

            Lorelei
            If you were attracted to them, then there’s a strong possibility that those two individuals were narcissists. You are a Narc Magnet!

        2. Hope says:

          I get infatuated. For sure. Isn’t that why we ignore red flags? Isn’t that why we endure black flags? Isn’t that the addiction? I feel like I’m in love as well as I am all to willing to self-sacrifice but I am also assuming too much and attracting myself to the idea of what we could become. The potential.

          Google says:

          Infatuation is a moment of getting carried away by a toxic and addictive love, and it usually happens at the start of a relationship while the sexual attraction is strong. On the other hand, love is feeling a strong sense of affection for someone else. Love is more of an emotion.

          I also read infatuation chemical addiction can last up to two years, the honeymoon period of a marriage, after that—love is a conscious choice.

          I would say I’ve only been infatuated with narcs according to that theory as they usually don’t last longer than two years.

          1. honestyrocks777 says:

            K

            So then having an attraction to someone means they are a narcissist? So then again if we are not attracted to someone they wont be a narc? I dont want to be with someone I’m not attracted to :(

          2. Lorelei says:

            I struggle with this a lot. I am not sure I can develop an attraction to a normal human. I’m serious. I want to as it makes sense but I’ve never been unless it was a toxic overall situation which fed the narcissistic dynamic as I’ve determined here. It causes extreme anxiety. I may never get this down. Good inquiry.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I’ve explained this to you previously

          4. Lorelei says:

            Clearly duh. I’m fucked.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Or not if you’re staying away from people

          6. Lorelei says:

            I’ll hide in your Instagram cave. I can’t have any human contact!

          7. K says:

            Lorelei
            This thread is very good.

            HG Tudor says:
            October 9, 2019 at 07:29
            Love is not meant to be exciting.

            The problem is, we have made it this way and people think this is the norm and how it should be. Thus they come out with platitudes along the lines of the ones you have mentioned and they are misled.

            https://narcsite.com/2019/10/08/evil-imagine-greater-2/

          8. K says:

            Lorelei
            This might be the thread.

            Lorelei says:
            January 18, 2020 at 00:42
            HG–just in case I wasn’t clear… I am not ever going to date a boring fat ugly uneducated dumb boring empath man just because it is healthy.

            HG Tudor says:
            January 18, 2020 at 11:44
            Nobody suggests that you do.

            There are plenty of educated, slim, interesting, sparkling empathic men available.

            https://narcsite.com/2020/01/22/why-am-i-drawn-to-toxic-behaviours/comment-page-1/

          9. HG Tudor says:

            I have gone through this in detail with Lorelei.

          10. theletterafterj says:

            HG
            Understood re: Lorelei.

          11. Lorelei says:

            Haha K. I think I’m a pessimist in regard to men!

          12. theletterafterj says:

            Lorelei
            Can’t say I blame you, however, once your ET clears up, that may change. Keep reading!

          13. Lorelei says:

            Thanks K.

          14. theletterafterj says:

            My pleasure Lorelei.

          15. Hope says:

            There’s a theory that love grows on you. For example, practicing love leads to feelings of love. A healthy person interacting with you in loving ways creates a change of heart/mind/chemistry. As opposed to narcs where you feel love but never experience them loving you. I believe this is entirely possible because the only reason we are attracted to narcs is a chemical addiction related to childhood where we mistake that for love and later in life respond to the same stimulus. They did an experiment with dogs where they rung a bell every time they fed them and dogs began to salivate at the sound of the bell. I think my body salivates at the prospect of “love” (as I knew it to be), a narc loving me properly, which will never happen. If you never had steak before you won’t respond to it before it arrives. You have to experience real love before you can instinctively attract to it without tuning as we do with narcs. It will be an intellectual attraction before it becomes a physical one. We can intellectually understand that narcs do not suit us and what will. We need to make better choices and let the biology catch up.

          16. K says:

            honestyrocks777
            Being attracted to someone doesn’t necessarily mean that the individual is a narcissist. Are you currently ensnared with a narcissist? Escaped or disengaged (discarded)?

            HG Tudor says:
            January 8, 2020 at 13:04
            There are no such things as soul mates. That is a narcissistic ideal. There are many special people out there for you and they are not narcissists.

          17. Lorelei, there is another solution. Just have your own personal collection of Ns, enjoy the golden period then place them on the shelf when they begin devaluation. Replace them with a different N and just enjoy the hoovers when they come around.

          18. HG Tudor says:

            If only it were that easy.

          19. Lorelei says:

            Good idea! If only I could be trained that way..

          20. Hope says:

            I’ve tried this. It sort of works. I wanted to prevent myself from becoming too invested in one person when they weren’t going to. I was trying to be proactive and balance level of investment with theirs to buffer any injuries to my ego. I also thought they would grow in love for me after realizing I’m different (not understanding just how similar I probably was). Having more than one person does help— but I couldn’t do it anymore knowing what I know now.

            At that time, it was a numbers game. I thought I’m just increasing my odds. I had hope someone would eventually work out. I just haven’t met them yet. I was choosing my partners by how they made me feel (adrenaline, arousal). My empathy was attracted to narcs. My magical thinking believed that if I feel attraction so strongly, there must be a reason for it (imagining things like soul mates or energy vibrations that attract or God’s master plan) not realizing the attraction is childhood dysfunction drawing me to disordered people who can only bring me back to a dynamic my love will never solve. I know better now. I can’t do it again without having the hope piece that is gone now from learning.

          21. alexissmith2016 says:

            I’m pleased you know better now Hope. I was just kidding re having a couple of Ns on the go at the same time. it woudl be a complete headfuck I’m sure!

            You’re spot on that it was magical (emotional) thinking that there was something more going on attraction wise. that is how they make us feel and it’s sadly not real.

          22. NarcAngel says:

            Alexis2016
            I seriously thought that when I first arrived here. Why not jump at the hint of devaluation to the next golden period with another? I am not a love devotee so did not understand why this was not a viable solution. So much I didn’t understand (and still don’t). The learning continues.

          23. alexissmith2016 says:

            So true NA. I always think I’ve learned all there is to know and then HG comes up with something else which blows me away

          24. theletterafterj says:

            alexissmith2016
            And he keeps us on our toes. It’s fantastic!

          25. alexissmith2016 says:

            yup!

      2. honestyrocks777 says:

        I’d like to give my two cents…I love studying relationships.. the statement that non narcissists dont engage in infatuation is incorrect from what I have learned.
        One thing I like to inform others about is the 5 stages of love. Or “love cycles” simple articles can be found or longer drawn out books on these ideas. But the first stage that any couple experiences is generally “infatuation”. Then stage 2 they get deeper in closeness. Stage 3 most couples break up. You can find the majority of couples getting married in stage 1 and divorced in stage 3 (disillusionment). Most relationships do not make it past stage 3 and then repeat the cycle all over again with a new partner. People are often chasing the “feeling” that comes with stage 1. Alcoholics can quit drinking in stage 1 because the chemicals in the brain are soooo strong.. then they wear off. People think they are with the “wrong partner” or that their partner didnt show their “true colors” etc etc when in reality our chemicals kept us f re om seeing them.

        This is why it has been hard for me to distinguish between the “golden period” and “stage 1” they resemble each other.

        Anyways,
        Not to say you are wrong HG… just that I disagree. ;)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          So you are stating I am wrong. Why not have the courage of your, albeit misconceived, conviction?

          You are confusing the 5 stages of love for a non-narcissistic relationship. It is not. The 5 stages you are referring to is describing a narcissistic entanglement. Once again evidencing how so many commentators dress up the narcissistic entanglement as something else, get it hopelessly wrong and end up misleading people such as yourself into adhering to at best unhelpful and at worst, dangerous, ideas.

          1. Violetta says:

            I thought infatuation was the same as a crush. I had plenty of crushes when I was growing up; if you’d asked me at the time, I’d have said it was love. This is NOT what happens with a narcissist?

          2. honestyrocks777 says:

            My confusion is this…HG you dont experience love. Never have and never will. This idea is coming from people who study this field. Who study psychology. And the patterns of relationships. If infatuation is only for a narcissistic entanglement then the statistics of 1 in 6 or 17% would be inaccurate and would have to be nearly everyone in a relationship.
            This confuses me. Can you clarify or anyone?

            So then the feeling of really caring for someone is only for narcissistic relationships?

            Would it be said then that if I didnt have a strong feeling for someone then they would not be a narcissist?

            How can I have feelings for someone and not have attraction or a lovey feeling for them?

            I know that love is not a feeling. And that is why most people think they dont love someone anymore because they relate love to a feeling. But feelings are temporary.. thereby if thinking live is the butterflies.. you will leave when the butterflies go. Making love temporary. But it is not.

            I am not understanding what I am missing with the concept of the 5 stages of love. I am assuming you know what I am talking about HG if you were able to counter the idea.

            Also, can someone help me understand this.. i have wordpress. All the comments were going to a different email. I used the Yahoo email to receive articles and the gmail to communicate with HG. This morning i woke up and my gmail was flooded with comments. It was a high trigger for me as i like to know what to expect going in each email. What did I do for all these comments to go to the other email? How can I correct it?

    3. theletterafterj says:

      Hope
      The comments on this thread are very helpful, too.

      HG Tudor says:
      December 15, 2019 at 12:40
      Infatuation is a form of emotional thinking. Limerence is a form of emotional thinking. Limerence (I dislike the word myself) is infatuation. Narcissists are infatuated. Empaths are not. You experience love, we do not. The narcissist is able to exploit an empath´s emotional thinking because it causes them to miss the red flags which logic would otherwise show.

      Where an empath falls in love with a non-narcissist, the feelings experienced by the empath are real,there is no emotional thinking involved because the basis for the feelings is genuine because the non-narcissist is not manipulating.
      Where an empath falls in love with a narcissist, the feelings experienced by the empath are real also BUT there is emotional thinking involved and the basis for the feelings is NOT genuine because the empath is being manipulated. The addiction to the narcissist is driving the feelings, aided and abetted by emotional thinking.

      https://narcsite.com/2019/12/14/victim-or-volunteer-part-three-4/comment-page-1/

      1. honestyrocks777 says:

        I feel like I am going nuts right now.. I dont understand. If a narcissist experiences infatuation and it is emotional thinking.. they have emotion?

        If an empath does not experience infatuation then what the hell am I experiencing? Am I a narc then?

        I DEEPLY care for people. ALL people. So my caring and my feelings are what? Gosh I feel like I’m in a crisis… :(

        1. K says:

          honestyrocks777
          Yes, narcissists have emotions, negative ones. When you have a chance read the link below, it explains their emotions very well.

          You may be experiencing mirroring, if you are ensnared with a narcissist, which feels like infatuation. The Infatuation article may help clarify things.

          You are not a narcissist and it is very normal to feel like you are going nuts. We’ve all been there.

          https://narcsite.com/2019/11/25/the-futility-of-your-feelings/

          https://narcsite.com/2019/12/11/infatuation-11/

      2. honestyrocks777 says:

        I always understood “falling in love” AS infatuation?

        1. Violetta says:

          The problem with falling in love with a narc is you love someone who doesn’t exist. Our capacity for real love is being misdirected to fake objects.

          Most people have crushes growing up, and may invest that guy with the motorcycle and the black leather jacket or the head cheerleader/homecoming queen with all sort of wonderful attributes they don’t actually possess.

          At some point, we learn to go beyond that. We find out what people are really like, and either the crush goes and we look for someone more compatible, or we accept them, good and bad, as they are.

          Narcissists, I think, don’t want to know what we are Really Like. They aren’t interested. If we don’t live up to the ideals they created in their heads, we have failed them.

          When The Collector’s Fred Clegg (who has no idea what he is) finds Miranda’s diary, all he gleans from it is she never loved him, something she was trying to convey all along. He doesn’t ask himself if his actions were likely to inspire love in anybody. He’s out looking for a new appliance.

        2. K says:

          honestyrocks777
          Me too!

    4. Violetta says:

      Prince Harry announcing the engagement: “I just hope she loves me as much as I love her.”

  4. ibusaprincess says:

    Can we even escape the narcissist? They are basically everywhere

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes. Through my work – it works.

  5. MB says:

    This is excellent! It might be one of my favorites. I have a stupid question HG. You speak about the narcissist’s infatuation with themselves. Can a narcissist ever paint THEMSELVES black?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, MB, they cannot.

      1. MB says:

        I told you it was a stupid question! Thank you for clarifying. (And not laughing at me.)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Never a stupid question.

          1. MB says:

            HG is such a patient Professor.

        2. K says:

          MB
          I agree; it’s not a stupid question.

          1. MB says:

            Thank you K. A bit of self flagellation there. Never mind me!

          2. theletterafterj says:

            MB
            You are such an empath!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            She certainly is.

          4. theletterafterj says:

            HG
            Hahahaha…she couldn’t hide it if she tried.

          5. MB says:

            Guilty as charged, K! 🙋‍♀️

            I’ll tell you a story from today in the life of MB. I ordered a takeout salad for lunch. Once I got back to the office to eat, I realized they had left off the avocado 😩That’s a large part of what makes this salad so good. I considered calling to tell them that they had left it off. Then I managed to talk myself out of it. Here’s the thought process that occurred. Ok, I’ll wait until after lunch because they are very busy now. In fact, I bet that’s why my order wasn’t correct. Or maybe somebody else ordered theirs with no avocado and they got mixed up. Oh, I hope not. If one doesn’t like avocado, that would be disgusting for them. You know, it could be that their avocados had gone bad (like mine always do). Or maybe somebody forgot to place the order. I didn’t want to get anybody in trouble. They may just be having a bad day (it was correct the last time I got it) and a customer complaint would certainly not help. After all, it’s just a lunch order. I’ll be sure to check it next time before I leave with my order. In fact, it’s really my fault anyway because I didn’t check it. So I didn’t call. And yes, I will give them another chance!

          6. HG Tudor says:

            I’ll tell you a story in the life of HG. I ordered a takeout salad for lunch. I realised that they had left out the avocado.

            An avocado was brought to me shortly thereafter.

          7. MB says:

            Ha ha HG! I’m obviously not as important as you. I almost never complain. I take what I get or go without.

          8. K says:

            MB
            Here’s a story in the life of K.

            If I ordered a salad and they left out the avocado, I would call and get the avocado delivered or the salad would be comped (free).

          9. MB says:

            K, that’s what I was struggling with. Whether or not to complain and get a coupon. I decided a coupon wasn’t worth ruining anybody’s day. Plus, I despise conflict and avoid it when possible. My salad was still very good and I’ll get the avocado next time because I’ll check it before I leave. Win/win. There must be some reason the Universe didn’t think I should have avocado today!

          10. K says:

            MB
            You need narc pills, stat!

            Follow my lead:

            1. You aren’t complaining; you are stating a fact(s).
            2. You aren’t ruining anyone’s day by asking for avocados; you paid for them.
            3. Embrace conflict!
            4. You don’t need to gloss over or accept blame for The Avocado Debacle.
            5. To hell with the universe, if you ordered avocados, then they should be on your salad!

          11. MB says:

            K, you made me giggle! I would’ve already forgotten it had I not described my neurotic thought process for you which happened to be immediately after I had eaten my salad sans avocado. I do gloss over most things and anger is slow to appear and if it does, I stuff it. At my core, my true, abandoned self does not feel worthy of the air it breathes. Now…if it was somebody else that had been slighted avocado, I’d be all about wanting justice for them!

          12. FYC says:

            MB, there are many things I do not know and may never understand, but this I know with certainty: You were born worthy, you are worthy, and you ever will be worthy and precious. Worthy of love of self. Worthy of love of others and damned worthy of avocado!! You know, there really is no need for conflict or discord in such situations. You can simply say, “I really enjoy the avocado on these salads and it’s missing today. Would you mind?” And extend the salad back with a smile. You will be met with an apology and likely extra avocado. Seal the deal with one of your kind thanks and you will be very much appreciated.

          13. Lorelei says:

            MB is welcome to drive here for lunch. I’m serving baked cheese ravioli with garlic break sticks to several women coming over. I have an assortment of sweets.

          14. theletterafterj says:

            MB
            I am happy that you giggled. Watch out everybody! MB has some Super Savior traits and she will kick ass if you mess with her Peeps!!!

            Now, if only we could figure out how to get you to do the same for yourself.

          15. Lorelei says:

            I love gaucomole (spelling?) to the point of eating it until I’m sick so I just don’t! It’s like cocaine in food form.

          16. K says:

            MB
            Hahahaha….you are an empath to the Nth degree!!!

          17. Hope says:

            I worry about people getting fired as well. I have empathy for lower level workers. You never know if it’s their first day or week or what not. Now, if they give me attitude I wouldn’t mind complaining. Some may need discipline/correction. Discipline isn’t always a dirty word if you have an emotionally mature manager.

          18. Desirée says:

            MB
            It’s not about complaining, you can ensure you’re provided with what you ordered in a kind way and still get what you want. When my order would get messed up in the past, I would tell them courteously what I want changed, give a short smile and problem solved.
            Don’t pose it as a question. Stressed personnel can become decision fatigued and actually get annoyed by apologetic behaviour as in “I don’t know, CAN I get you some avocado?!”
            If you tell them want you want and don’t beat around the bush or act weird, they will usually line it up with the other tasks they are currently doing and just get that avocado your way. It’s only when customers get bratty or overly apologetic that people might be annoyed (although somebody elses emotions are not your responsibility in general and it’s really not that deep).
            You can be assertive without being offensive. Go get that salad of your dreams, MB!

    2. E. B. says:

      MB,
      That was a good question. I have heard narcissists making self-deprecating comments and also jokes (all-bad) such as “You know, I‘m thick-headed”, “I’m a nobody”, “I know, I am bad mother”.
      They were not in the middle of a reality gap. They expected me to strongly disagree with them and tell them how clever, awesome, wonderful they are.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Correct. They were Provocations and Pity Plays.

        1. E. B. says:

          You are right. Thank you, HG.

      2. MB says:

        Thank you E.B., It follows that the extreme infatuation the narcissist has with him/herself might be followed by a period of devaluation.

        I’m the opposite. Myself always devalues me, never infatuated! In need of some narc pills.

  6. About the eyes says:

    Therapists cost a lot of money. And that’s ok if it helps. But they can’t help because they do not know how a narcissist really acts and the consequences for the victim. Like brainwashing. Even books written by victims didn’t help me.

    I didn’t know there were different kinds of narcissists. I knew my sister was worse to deal with than my father or mother. Now I understand I had to deal with three narcissist belonging to a different type. So as a child I met with three sorts of brainwashing and abuse.

    Mr. Tudor charges for his help – so do other therapists. I prever to pay for a therapist who offers advises that really help. I have learned a lot from Mr. Tudors advise – so now I finally can get the brainwashing from my narcissistic family out of my system.

    I can’t change my character but I CAN change that and avoid narcissists in the future.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you ATE.

      1. Lorelei says:

        I’d have fared about the same in a crack house as the therapist I went to a few years ago.

  7. Jess says:

    The way this site is marketing now makes me sick. Jesus Christ…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You’d best go to the doctor then if you’re sick, I’m sure he’ll be delighted to comply with your expectation of getting everything free of charge.

      1. Jess says:

        I spent 150$ to talk to you for an hour and I’ve been lost in PayPal hell with trying to purchase these things for months.. thanks tho. Money isn’t the issue. Obviously it is for you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I know I have spoken to you.
          If you need help with the purchases, just state as such and email me. I will assist you as I assist anybody who has issues with payment, ask FYC, FM1T and NJFilly for instance, Jess.

          1. FYC says:

            HG, Indeed you are most kind and helpful and flexible in your approach to supporting us on all fronts. Some issues with payments can arise, but they do not rise to the level of frustration Jess has expressed. And you kindly, address any with issues with fast, effective solutions.

            Jess, I am pretty sure you do not work for free and I assume you are an empath. Why would you expect HG, or anyone for that matter, to work for free, or in HG’s case, pay to work for us? This is illogical and lacking in insight to say the least. HG incurs significant costs in creating and publishing his materials and every aspect of this blog’s creation and maintenance comes at a significant cost to HG. Further, to extend HG’s valuable messages and materials to those in desperate need, he will need to create additional revenue streams to accomplish this worthy goal. Lastly, HG deserves the rewards of his labor, as would anyone. I can appreciate your frustration with payment methods, but attacking the host is a cheap shot and you are better than that. Why not ask for assistance instead?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you FYC. Jess has not yet clarified whether her frustration was with being invited to pay for the work or with the payment process.

          3. FYC says:

            A gracious reply, HG. I understood her to mean both since she states, “Money isn’t the issue. Obviously it is for you.” That read as unnecessary sarcasm to me. If I am incorrect, I sincerely apologize. Of course such frustration may also stem from eroded empathy due to abuse. I have no way of knowing, so I responded to what was written. (I may also be a bit sensitive to such commentary as it seems often people visit this site expecting all information to be free. Creating intellectual product and marketing the same is always costly in time and money.) Either way, it is better to ask for assistance since many of us have encountered problems and found ways to resolve them and would be happy to share the same.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            As every, your constructive comments bear testament to your good offices. It is unfortunate that there are those who expect everything to be delivered for free, when a massive amount already is.

          5. FYC says:

            Thank you, HG. It is very true that you do a great deal of work not only for free, but at a cost to yourself. Allow me to thank you on behalf of those who do not know or realize this fact. The greater majority truly appreciate all you do.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed they do and thank you FYC.

        2. lisk says:

          Jess, did the consult go well?

          I had two with HG, one re: Narcx, the other re: work matters. Both were extremely helpful and I know I would not be in such a good place without them.

          I have purchased a few other packages/bulletins and find them very helpful, too.

          All in all, I have given much less money to HG than I gave to a therapist in a year, and I am much better off.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thann you Lisk

        3. FoolMe1Time says:

          Jess I am in hell every time I try to purchase something! I finally just gave up and now I ask HG to invoice me if he has the time, he is usually right on it which he doesn’t need to be, I’m just grateful I don’t have to put up with PayPal or my gift cards not working any longer.

    2. WokeAF says:

      It sucks if you’re broke I feel you.
      But ultimately we r gotten SO. MUCH grade A, unavailable-ANYWHERE-else, inside scoop, mind blowing information for free here and on YouTube I mean…he’s spending a LOT of time putting this together , doing the audio files, bulletins etc plus we still get free articles. PLUS some of these are $5 , $15… and there’s sales — I know the frustration , I’ve beaked off once At another reader saying it’s the price of a dinner out (even do DJ game moms get a dinner out? 😆) but that was a moment of envy. I made my bed.
      HG has a whole big huge life outside this blog and he puts a lot into it so 🤷‍♀️
      I’m good at my job and my hobbies – I’m not even the BEST at what I do (unlike HG) -should I work for free or give away what I create for free at huge demand ?
      Are you really disgusted? Or were you having a moment of ET?

      1. WokeAF says:

        Edit; * when do single moms get a dinner out

        Friggin mistype

        1. Lorelei says:

          Woke—if I could take you to dinner I would! Haha, hope you are doing well!

      2. HG Tudor says:

        I may be mistaken, but Jess´comment might have been expressing frustration with making purchases as opposed to having to pay for some content. Her later comment seems to go in that direction.

      3. Dolores Haze says:

        I still feel bad for inadvertently hurting your feelings with that “dinner out” comment, WAF. Believe me, it’s very common to dine out where I live, and it is hardly a luxury. Plus I should have articulated that comment better – my English skills clearly need improvement if I still keep missing essential nuances of “if it’s about the money” vs “if it’s not about the money”. I apologize once again, WAF; and I’d be happy to take you out for dinner and apologize in person if we weren’t hiding behind the masks or anonymity here.

    3. Hope says:

      If it’s free… you are the product. They are getting their money. Just in sneakier ways.

    4. lisk says:

      It seems like HG is interspersing a little more, so it’s not so bad.

  8. Lorelei says:

    How sweet for Valentine’s Day! How about we love ourselves.. I’d love to buy this for a friend HG. Is it “elementary” enough for a person only somewhat aware of narcissism to not be confused or turned off because they believe the cognitive demonstrations equate reality? You know what I mean I thinkz

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, it is couched in terms which they will identify with and understand.

      1. Lorelei says:

        Thanks—I’ll listen and see if I should order her one. (Like if she is ready..) The problem is.. (as you know) that eventually many of us realize it expands to our parents. It was a (is a) hard reckoning to know my dad was a disordered man who thought of me as an appliance. And this is my hesitation for my close friend. It’s clear as the sky is blue how this became imprinted for her. I’m actually more cautious now than before. It may shift again. It’s a can of worms some people can’t handle. Due to not handling it they end up ensnared again though. I venture to say the “recovery” from this addictive tendency is as dismal for some of us as lifetime alcoholics getting sober. Me being one with a very high propensity for “this” as an almost requirement. I have to seek it out—it’s not an unfortunate accident. I find it, crave it, all of it. I know I have a really strong draw to narcissists whether they be friends or romantic engagements. So, while I know it’s not love—I’m hesitant to be overly prescriptive with such a sensitive issue and not wanting to turn anyone off with too much too soon.

      2. Lorelei says:

        I can’t reply on the POTUS thread re,
        MM hoovering an audience through Prince Harry as he’s an extension of herself.. Wow! How else or what’s another example? Do you struggle with this personally and have to think through not doing it?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is not a struggle. It is inevitable that everybody is an extension of the narcissist, Lorelei, that is part of what we are because of our narcissism.

          1. Lorelei says:

            It’s interesting but explains boundary issues to an extent—that everybody is an extension of the narcissist.

          2. Lorelei says:

            HG—you really are genius. Lightbulbs go off for me a lot here. It’s an incredibly foreign concept how this disorder wraps an individual up in such a way that the similarity of nuances fit like puzzle pieces. It wouldn’t be problematic for you as is “home” to view others in this way. For me it would be really unusual, I have a hard time even talking to friends about personal things or stepping on toes, etc.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed I am. I am pleased it has assisted you.

          4. Lorelei says:

            Haha, “Indeed I am.” Can’t you pretend to have some humility?

          5. HG Tudor says:

            No, there is no point. I give you the honest reality here.

          6. Lorelei says:

            🤷🏼‍♀️

  9. Max says:

    So everything is paid content now?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No.

    2. K says:

      Hello Max
      There is a search bar on the upper right and you can use it to search for articles. Type: gas lighting, word salad, isolation, hoovers or toxic logic into the search bar and you will have plenty of content to read. Enjoy!

      These are some of my favorite articles.

      https://narcsite.com/2016/01/18/narc-club/

      https://narcsite.com/2017/03/09/colour-me-narc-3/

      https://narcsite.com/2016/06/25/food-glorious-food/

      https://narcsite.com/2016/09/24/world-war-me-3/

      https://narcsite.com/2016/12/21/contrariwise-2/

      1. MB says:

        Thank you K. I had not read Colour Me Narc before.

        1. theletterafterj says:

          MB
          I love Colour Me Narc. This one is short and helps The Reader understand the mindset of HG (the narcissist).

          https://narcsite.com/2015/09/26/the-tide-turns/

      2. lisk says:

        Definitely some there that I have never read! (And I’ve been around here for a little over a year)

        1. theletterafterj says:

          lisk
          These two are very short and gives The Reader some insight into HG’s world. The way he thinks is very different from how we think. Enjoy!

          https://narcsite.com/2015/09/17/the-sum-of-all-tears/

          https://narcsite.com/2015/09/29/like-a-book/

        2. theletterafterj says:

          lisk and MB
          This is a good one.

          https://narcsite.com/2016/03/12/redress-with-the-red-dress/

          1. Lorelei says:

            K—sometimes you can match panties and bra and shave your legs and it is ok not to be love!

          2. theletterafterj says:

            Lorelei
            Just think of it as self-love.

          3. Lorelei says:

            Wouldn’t self love be a sex toy? We don’t shave our legs for a vibrator do we!?

          4. K says:

            Lorelei
            Hahahaha…no, you don’t have shave a damn thing and a vibrator is the very essence of self-love.

          5. Lorelei says:

            Are vibrators allowed on HG’s no sex program K? I’m not allowed to state the length of the program because I was causing unnecessary discord the last time! And I’ve actually never been told to be on the program—I just knew better!

          6. K says:

            Lorelei
            As long as No Contact is in place then vibrators are allowed.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Unless they are controlled via an app which the Narc has access to. Then that falls I to Arena 2

          8. Lorelei says:

            They have app controlled vibrators? I’ve had an extremely boring array of narcissists. Like not even one porn addict.

          9. K says:

            Hahahaha…Lorelei, you heard HG, get rid of all your vibrators in case they have been compromised. Go old school and get a non-battery powered model, stat.

            Can you imagine the thought fuel from a compromised vibrator!

          10. Lorelei says:

            Goodness. I truly am not walking around with a remote powered sex toy for anyone!

          11. HG Tudor says:

            You carry a phone don’t you?

          12. Lorelei says:

            No, I don’t even have cable!

          13. HG Tudor says:

            You big fib.

          14. Lorelei says:

            I don’t have cable. Even basic. TV’s are never on. In fact, I own one 10 year old tv that has a fire stick for Netflix for the kids. That is it. It annoys me.

          15. Lorelei says:

            I’m cracking up—do you mean no contact with the vibrator?

          16. K says:

            Lorelei
            Hahahaha…of course not! That would defeat the purpose! As long as you are NC with the narcissist then all non-compromised vibrators are acceptable.

          17. Lorelei says:

            Are these items really popular or something? I have never heard them discussed. My very spirited friend from high school told me some man she’s sleeping with wanted to “throw down” a tarp on the bed. I did not even want to know why the hell one would need a tarp for sex. It was quite normal to her.

          18. HG Tudor says:

            Wet work

          19. Lorelei says:

            Ugh. I guess that makes sense.

          20. Hope says:

            If you need a tarp I’d rather go outdoors! I don’t want that mess on my bed! Lol. An inflatable pool perhaps with an air mattress? I watched a video one time about nori massage as I love massage and a partner mentioned it to me one time as being the best ever experience. I wouldn’t mind trying that or oils or other messy things. Mud wrestling. LOL. But if I need a tarp I don’t want that mess in or near my bed! You can’t wash a mattress.

          21. Lorelei says:

            Haha—she cracks me up with stories. She peed on some woman’s pillow, (quite a story) and asked a guy for anal sex because he had a small penis. She just talks openly about this stuff and it’s not attention seeking. It’s as casual and as informative as the weather channel. She smokes pot all the time, is a school teacher, and an active AA sponsor. Oh, and styles hair at a lice shop where they clean up head lice. She is amazing and fun. I don’t know what is wrong with her!

          22. Hope says:

            I don’t think they are popular. Maybe in movies, it was shown in a romantic comedy being used in a public setting at a dinner table. Remote controlled vibrator built into the panties. It might be popular for cam girls’ customers when people are paying to interact. For regular people—I think it’s a novelty. Something you buy because you think it will be fun but only use once. It becomes a distraction if they are present in the room or frustration if apart as we know best how to please ourselves.

          23. njfilly says:

            Lorelei and K,

            They do have vibrators that are controlled through cell phone blue tooth so the narc should not have access to the controls!

          24. theletterafterj says:

            njfilly
            Never underestimate a narcissist. Toss out the old and in with the new. Just put the old ones in recycling, that will give people something to talk about.

          25. njfilly says:

            theletterafterj:

            Very funny. No wonder the recycling guys love coming to my house.

            Is this a new product offering creating a buzz in The House of Tudor?

          26. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha very good.

          27. K says:

            njfilly
            Hahahaha…I was thinking the same thing. Narc Proof Vibrators from HOT (House of Tudor)!

          28. njfilly says:

            K,

            Actually, that’s not what I was thinking.

          29. K says:

            njfilly
            Hahahaha…what have you been putting in your recycling bins lately?

          30. njfilly says:

            Non-recyclables because I like to live on the edge!

          31. theletterafterj says:

            njfilly
            Hahahahahahaha…that was a fucking riot! The cheek on you; you filthy empath!

          32. Violetta says:

            His touch was a love drug
            I had to have more
            The next thing I knew
            I opened the door

            Come in, space monkey
            Kiss me here, kiss me there
            He still looked disgusting
            But I didn’t care
            (Give us more detail)

            Oh, how do I describe it
            Well, you know how a blender has twelve speeds
            Well, when he got up to purée I thought I would die
            But when he put it on liquify, I WANTED HIS BABY!

            – “Earth Girls Are Easy”

  10. WhoCares says:

    Very opportune that this is available just in time for Valentine’s Day!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed. Much needed reminder and bolster for all affected by narcissism. You will learn some new things also.

      1. WhoCares says:

        *Always* appreciative of the new things, HG. Also appreciate how the new learning here builds upon the already established learning.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

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